#182 Todd Herman: Unleashing Your Secret Identity
发布时间 2023-11-28 06:00:00 来源
If you shamed where to actually pursue the thing you want and start taking action on it, you're losing the excuse of hope. I think hope is a double edged sword like everything in nature. The moment I take action on it, I no longer have that warm blanket of hope that someday maybe I'll be able to go and do it. And I think that many people stay stuck where they are not pursuing the things that they really want to do because of hope. Welcome to the Knowledge Project, a podcast about mastering the best of what other people have already figured out so you can apply their insights to your life. I'm your host, Shane Parrish. Every Sunday, I send out the Brain Food newsletter to over 600,000 people. It's considered noise canceling headphones for the internet and is full of timeless wisdom you can apply to life and work.
如果你因为羞愧而不敢真正追求自己想要的东西，并开始采取行动，那么你就失去了寄托在希望上的借口。我认为希望就像自然界中的其他事物一样，是一把双刃剑。 一旦我开始行动，我就不再拥有那种温暖的希望——也许某一天我能去实现它。我认为，很多人停滞不前，不去追求自己真正想做的事情，正是因为希望。
欢迎来到知识项目，这是一档关于学习大师们智慧的播客，让你能够把他们的见解应用到自己的生活中。我是主持人，谢恩·帕里什。每个星期天，我都会向超过60万名订阅者发送脑粮简报。这份简报被誉为互联网的“降噪耳机”，充满了可以应用于生活和工作的永恒智慧。
It's concise, it's quick, you can read it in a few minutes. Sign up at fs.blog.slashnewsletter. If you're listening to this, you're missing out. If you'd like access to the podcast before public release, special episodes that don't appear anywhere else, hand-edited transcripts, first access to our events, which we've started to run again, or you just want to support the show you love, you can join at fs.blog.slash membership. Check out the show notes for a link. My guest today is Todd Herman.
它简洁快速，几分钟就能读完。请访问 fs.blog.slashnewsletter 订阅。如果你正在听这个录音，你可能错过了一些内容。如果你想在播客公开发布前就收听，获得其他地方没有的特别节目、人工编辑的文字记录、我们重新开始举办的活动的优先参与权，或者你只是想支持你喜欢的节目，你都可以加入 fs.blog.slash membership。链接请查看节目备注。今天我的嘉宾是托德·赫尔曼。
Todd is a coach and mentor to elite athletes, leaders, and public figures on mindset and execution. I've wanted to talk to Todd since I discovered his work through Kobe Bryant and read his book, The Alter Ego Effect. This episode is about the power of mindset, specifically around identities and what it can do for you to unlock the next level. Each of us is inhabiting different identities throughout the course of our day, perhaps for entrepreneurs or employees, mothers or fathers, athletes or CEOs.
托德是精英运动员、领导者和公众人物的教练和导师，专注于心态和执行力方面的指导。自从通过科比·布莱恩特了解到他的作品并阅读了他的书《替代自我效应》后，我就一直想与托德交流。本期节目探讨心态的强大力量，特别是关于身份的方面，以及它如何帮助你解锁下一个层次。我们每个人每天都在扮演不同的角色，可能是企业家或员工，母亲或父亲，运动员或首席执行官。
But how can you harness the strength of these different identities to get the best out of yourself? And is it possible to create a new identity for yourself to get through tough times? We go deep on peak performance, the value of patience, the fear that prevents us from being at our best, imposter syndrome, and how we worked with basketball great Kobe Bryant to build the legendary Alter Ego of the Black Mamba. It's time to listen and learn. The Knowledge Project is sponsored by Metalab. For a decade, Metalab has helped some of the world's top companies and entrepreneurs build products that millions of people use every day.
但如何利用这些不同身份的力量来激发自己的最佳表现呢？是否能够为自己创造一个新身份，以度过艰难时期？我们深入探讨了巅峰表现、耐心的价值、阻碍我们发挥最佳状态的恐惧、冒名顶替综合症，并且我们如何与篮球巨星科比·布莱恩特合作，打造出传奇的“黑曼巴”替身人格。是时候聆听和学习了。《知识项目》由Metalab赞助。十年来，Metalab帮助了全球顶尖公司和企业家打造了数百万用户每天使用的产品。
You probably didn't realize that at the time, but odds are you've used an app that they've helped design or build. Apps like Slack, Coinbase, Facebook Messenger, Oculus, Lonely Planet and many more. Metalab wants to bring their unique design philosophy to your project. Let them take your brainstorm and turn it into the next billion-dollar app from ideas sketched on the back of a napkin to a final ship product. Check them out at metalab.co. That's metalab.co. And when you get in touch, tell them Shane sent you. Make an exceptionally delicious cup of coffee in less than a minute with the AeroPress coffee maker.
你可能当时没有意识到，但你很可能已经使用过他们帮助设计或开发的应用程序。像Slack、Coinbase、Facebook Messenger、Oculus、Lonely Planet等许多应用程序都是他们的杰作。Metalab想要把他们独特的设计理念带到你的项目中。让他们把你的头脑风暴转化成下一个从草图变为最终产品的亿万美元应用。查看他们的网站metalab.co，就是metalab.co。如果你联系他们，告诉他们是Shane推荐的。使用AeroPress咖啡机，在不到一分钟的时间内制作一杯特别美味的咖啡。
It's the only coffee press out there that uses a patented three-in-one brew technology. And because it's so unique, so is the flavor. Not only does it taste incredible, but I love the smooth, full-bodied finish that other coffee makers can't give you. Best of all, you can pack it in your bag when you travel so you don't have to drink that mediocre coffee at your office or Airbnb. AeroPress is made in the USA and is trusted by professional baristas who love it for its versatility. It's the only press that lets you experiment with temperature, grind size, and immersion time. And now they have a new crystal clear version.
这是市面上唯一使用专利三合一冲泡技术的咖啡压滤壶。正因为它如此独特，所以它的味道也与众不同。不仅味道令人难以置信地好，我还特别喜欢它那种顺滑、醇厚的回味，是其他咖啡机无法提供的。最棒的是，你可以在旅行时把它放进包里，不用喝办公室或Airbnb里那些平庸的咖啡。AeroPress在美国生产，深受专业咖啡师的信赖，因为它的多功能性令人喜爱。它是唯一允许你尝试不同温度、研磨粗细和浸泡时间的咖啡压滤壶。而现在，他们还推出了全新的透明款。
With over 45,000 5-star reviews and sold in over 60 countries, what are you waiting for? Pick one up today for under $50 at AeroPress.com.com. And get 15% off exclusively for our listeners. That's A-E-R-O-P-R-E-S-S.com.com. Are you building a business? Well, if you haven't already been asked by potential customers or investors about SOC 2, ISO 27001 or HIPAA compliance, you likely will be soon. Achieving compliance can unlock major growth for your company and build a foundation of trust, but it can also be time-consuming and tedious.
获得超过45,000条五星好评，销往60多个国家，你还在等什么？现在就去AeroPress.com.com购买，价格不到50美元。我们的听众还能独享15%的折扣。就是A-E-R-O-P-R-E-S-S.com.com。
你在创业吗？如果你还没有被潜在客户或投资者问到SOC 2、ISO 27001或HIPAA合规性，那么很快可能就会被问到。实现合规可以为你的公司带来巨大的增长，并建立信任的基础，但这也可能需要耗费大量时间和精力。
Vanta can help. Vanta automates up to 90% of compliance. We're getting you audit ready in weeks and saving you significant costs. And Vanta scales with your business, helping you enter new markets and land bigger deals and earn customer loyalty. Listeners get $1,000 off Vanta when they go to vanta.com slash knowledge. That's v-a-n-t-a.com slash knowledge. I think, you know, the theme of this podcast is probably going to be how do we get the best out of ourselves? And maybe that's a good place to start.
Vanta可以提供帮助。Vanta能够自动完成多达90%的合规工作，我们可以在几周内帮你准备好审计，并为你节省大量成本。Vanta还能够随你的业务一起成长，助你进入新市场，达成更大交易，并赢得客户忠诚度。通过访问vanta.com/knowledge，你还能享受$1000的优惠。网址是v-a-n-t-a.com/knowledge。我认为，这期播客的主题可能会是如何充分发挥我们的潜力，这或许是一个不错的切入点。
That's a very open-ended question, but people come to you and they come to you with a need and that need is performance. I need to perform. I need to get the best out of myself, whether it's in two days or in two weeks or consistently over a period of time. Now what? Like, how do we do that? What does that mean? Okay, so for the long term, from my experience, the quality of your mentors and the people that you have around you plays a massive role in you not stepping in stupid more than you need to. I've been a byproduct of mentorship. I'm a big believer in apprenticeship. I think it's one of the things that's been lost nowadays because so many people want to create the perception of immediate success as fast as possible. And it's the fast food world that we live in and drive through wins and things like that.
这是一个非常开放的问题，但人们来找你是因为他们有需求，这个需求就是表现。我需要表现出色，我需要发挥出自己的最佳状态，不管是两天后、两周后，还是持续一段时间。那么该怎么做呢？这意味着什么呢？根据我的经验，从长远来看，你身边的导师和朋友的质量对你避免不必要的错误起着巨大的作用。我就是导师指导的产物，我非常信奉学徒制。我认为这是一种在当今社会已经被遗忘的东西，因为现在很多人都希望尽快创造出立即成功的假象。这就像我们生活在一个快餐世界，所有人都期待迅速获胜。
But apprenticeship for me has opened up, you know, a very large chunk of the doors of opportunity for me because their role at X was better than mine. They'd already done it. So I'd say in the long term, that long view of how can I get around high quality, high value people? Because typically they're going to carry with them high value ideas or philosophies or paradigms that are going to be better than mine. I think that's one thing that I would always look at first is the under appreciation of environment and how that plays way more on your success than you. Because we come in, right? Like Shane, you read amazing ideas and amazing books and we index a lot to making myself better. And it's sort of me thing as opposed to how can I design an environment around me that's going to make it a lot easier and grease that slide. And so that's one thing as I always like to evaluate people's environments because sometimes that's the easiest thing to change. And I haven't even made you the problem. You know, I said long view. I want to look at your environment and the people that you have around you and mentors and in the short term. And this is I kind of became known in the pro sports world as a quick hit guy.
对我来说，学徒制为我打开了很多机会之门，因为他们在X公司所扮演的角色比我的更好。他们已经完成了我未曾完成的事情。所以我认为，从长远来看，我需要思考如何能接触到高质量、高价值的人，因为通常他们会带来高价值的想法、理念或范式，这些都会比我的更优秀。我认为，首先要考虑的是对环境的重要性缺乏认识，而环境对你的成功影响远超过你本身。因为我们进来的时候，比如说Shane，你读了很多精彩的想法和书籍，我们更多关注如何提升自己，这是以自我为中心，而不是思考如何设计一个有助于自己的环境，这样会更容易取得进展。因此，我一直喜欢评估人们的环境，因为有时候这是最容易改变的地方，而不用将问题归咎于你个人。我说的长期观点是，我会考虑你的环境、你身边的人和导师。在短期内，这也是为什么我在职业体育界以速效专家闻名的原因之一。
And so when someone is playing at the US Open in Flushing Meadows in New York on Saturday, and it's a Wednesday and I get the call in New York City where home is for me, I'll be on that subway. Out there, I want to look at your identity because your identity, the person or the view of yourself that's going out to perform on that field is where all of your habits, attitudes, behaviors, your beliefs, sit is on top of that identity of you as that performer. And with the tools that I was using with people and becoming known as Mr. Alter Ego, when I now had a better model and a better tool to help change people's identity quickly. And so speed was always what I indexed towards. It's also because that's what my clients want. Typically really ambitious people. They appreciate speed. And so that was a forcing function on the tools that I needed to build for the clientele that I have.
所以，当有人在周六在纽约的法拉盛梅多斯进行美国公开赛时，而那天是周三，我在纽约市接到电话，在我家里，我会坐上地铁。在那里，我想了解你的身份，因为你的身份，即你将要在那个场地上表现的自我，包含了你所有的习惯、态度、行为和信念。而我用在人们身上的工具让他们开始称我为“替身先生”，当时我有了一个更好的模型和更好的工具，可以快速改变人们的身份。所以速度一直是我所追求的目标。这也是因为我的客户想要这样—通常是非常有抱负的人。他们看重速度。因此，我需要为我的客户群体开发这类工具。
So I'd say first long view mentorship environment. And then secondly, I'm going to look at identity. Those aren't the only things, but those are the first two things I want to take a look at for a lot of people. I just want to make a comment, maybe on the apprenticeship thing. And I think when the gap between where we are and where we want to be seems really huge, we tend to gravitate away from apprenticeship because that's a long, slow, methodical process and craftsmanship. And we gravitate towards these quick hit. How do I achieve what I want to achieve as quickly as possible? So we gravitate to shortcuts towards hacks towards.
所以，我会说首先要考虑长期的指导环境。其次，我会关注身份认同。这不是什么唯一重要的事情，但这是我希望为许多人首先考虑的两件事。我想对学徒制这个事发表一些看法。我认为，当我们与理想之间的差距看起来非常大时，人们往往会远离学徒制，因为这是一个缓慢、系统的方法和工艺。我们会倾向于寻找迅速实现目标的方法，追求一些捷径和技巧。
And that, you know, I think of this and I try to teach my kids this, which is a lack of patience changes the outcome. It's like you know the process to achieve the outcome you want, but it's that lack of patience that's going to make it impossible to actually achieve the outcome. I don't know that I would use the frame of impossible. Okay. That lack of patience can cause us to make really poor decisions. Then those decisions can get us into more trouble than we need to. Someone who's a hero to both of us, you know, Charlie Munger and Buffett both would talk about how success has a lot more to do with not making stupid mistakes. Then it ever does in making phenomenally right choices. Yeah. You know, and the easiest example is if I'm out drinking with you Shane, me getting into the car and driving is a could be just a subtle stupid mistake. Nothing ends up happening or it could be an irrevocably, irrevocably bad decision that ruins or, you know, causes a lot of people harm.
这个嘛，我的想法是这样的，我尝试教导我的孩子这一点：缺乏耐心会改变结果。就像你知道如何通过某个过程来达到你想要的结果，但是缺乏耐心会让你无法真正实现这个结果。我也不会说这是不可能的。缺乏耐心会导致我们做出非常糟糕的决定，而这些决定可能会让我们陷入不必要的麻烦。对我们俩来说，一个共同的偶像——查理·芒格和巴菲特——都曾说过，成功更多是关于避免犯愚蠢的错误，而不是做出极其正确的选择。最简单的例子是，如果我和你一起出去喝酒，我选择开车回家，这可能只是个小小的愚蠢错误，也可能是一个无法挽回的糟糕决定，给自己或他人带来巨大伤害。
So yeah, I think patience is it can be a great forcing function because it drives immediate need right now and can force someone to finally get up off their ass and do something. Or this is actually something that might resonate with you too. Shane, like I stand on stage in front of like a lot of entrepreneurs. And when I talk about my business life and building businesses and whatnot, I talk about my career, which isn't something entrepreneurs typically talk about. They don't talk about their career. And so I've had people ask me like when they come to the mic stand afterwards and like, why do you use career like entrepreneurs?
所以，是的，我认为耐心是一种强有力的推动力，因为它会在当下激发迫切的需求，迫使人们终于行动起来。这一点可能也会引起你的共鸣，Shane。比如说，我站在舞台上面对很多企业家时，谈论我的商业生涯和创建公司的经历。我会谈论自己的职业生涯，而这不是企业家通常会谈论的事情，他们一般不谈论自己的职业生涯。所以，当演讲结束后，有人会在话筒前问我，为什么我会使用“职业生涯”这种说法，作为企业家来说。
That's just a I never hear an entrepreneur say that. Because I look at entrepreneurship as a career. And when you look at something as a career, then you look at it as, well, what are the skills that I need to build? And career isn't something that's to your point in impatient two week timeframe. It's a very long view of things. So I take a look at that world a lot differently than I think many other entrepreneurs do and people in our world.
我从来没听过企业家这么说过。因为我把创业当作一种职业来看待。既然是职业，那就要考虑需要培养哪些技能。而职业不是你说的那种两周就能见效的短期行为，而是一个非常长远的事情。所以，我看待创业的方式和很多其他企业家以及我们这个领域的人都不太一样。
So it's interesting as you were saying that, you know, patience doesn't mean passive. And I think often we conflate patience with doing nothing. And I don't think they're the same. What's your, what do you think? Yeah. And I am one of the first persons to beat the hustle drum with people like, hey, when you're just starting out with something, you've got a hustle. Like you've got to focus your energy and work hard at that thing. But then for many people, it becomes their identity. Oh, I'm someone who can do that.
所以很有意思的是，你刚才提到，耐心并不等于被动。我觉得我们经常把耐心和什么都不做混为一谈，但我认为它们不是一回事。你觉得呢？是的，我可以说我是第一个向大家强调努力工作重要性的人，比如，当你刚开始做某件事时，你必须努力工作，把精力集中在那件事情上。但是对很多人来说，这就成了他们的身份认同：“哦，我是一个能做到这件事的人。”
And then they get trapped inside of it. Whereas in the world of building a business to a certain level or even building your sporting skills or any sort of skills, there becomes a time of maintenance that kind of gets baked into that process. And if you only are always hustling, that means you're typically going to add more, add more, add more. More is the enemy to peak performance, adding more to something, doing more things, having 17 more new ways of doing a breakaway.
然后他们就被困在其中了。而在把生意做大到一定程度，或是提升你的运动技能，甚至是任何一种技能的过程中，会有一个维护的阶段，这个阶段是整个过程中不可避免的。如果你总是在努力拼搏，那通常意味着你会不断地增加更多的事情。越多反而是高效表现的敌人，增加更多东西，做更多的事情，比如增加17种新的方法来突破。
Deek on a hockey goalie is not going to make you better. In fact, some hockey trivia, the best goal score on breakaways in the history of the NHL had two moves every single goalie in the NHL knew his two moves, but he could execute those two moves better than every single goalie could possibly save him. So going back to the whole patience thing is there's an element of thinking time.
对一个冰球守门员使用假动作，并不会让你变得更出色。实际上，有个冰球冷知识——NHL历史上在单刀得分最多的球员只有两个招数，每个守门员都知道他的这两个招数，但他可以把这两个招数执行得比任何守门员防守得都要好。所以，回到整体的耐心问题上，这里面有一个思考时间的因素。
And I think that so many people would observe someone who's trying to be patient in their thinking about a strategy or a way of doing something as them being they're lazy with it or they're avoiding it. And a lot of amazing people, all they need is two really great decisions a year. We're going to have so many things to talk about already, right? I keep going down the straddle.
我认为很多人会看到一个人在思考策略或做事方式时试图保持耐心，就会觉得他们是在偷懒或者在逃避。然而，很多了不起的人一年只需要做两次非常出色的决策。我们已经有很多事情要讨论了，不是吗？我继续沿着这条思路往下说。
I want to go back to Buffet and Munger for a second. One thing that I think is very underappreciated about them is that they never find themselves out of position. They're always operating from a position of plenty or a position of strength. So no matter what happens in the environment, they can always take advantage of it. They're never forced by circumstances into a bad decision.
我想再谈谈巴菲特和芒格。有一点我认为人们很少注意到，就是他们从来不会处于不利的位置。他们总是处于一种充裕或强势的状态。所以无论周围环境如何变化，他们总能从中获利。他们从不会被迫在困境中做出不好的决定。
And when we were talking about how a lack of patience leads to poor decisions, the poor decisions lead to a worsening position. The worsening position leads to fewer and fewer good outcomes. Like if you put Warren Buffet or Charlie Munger in a bad position, they're going to look very average, but they're always operating from a really good position. Well, and my favorite takeaway that I've had from them that's really shaped my decision making is their context of assumptions where if they were
当我们讨论耐心不足如何导致糟糕的决策时，这些糟糕的决策又会导致情况恶化，而情况恶化又会导致好结果越来越少。比如，如果你把沃伦·巴菲特或查理·芒格置于一个糟糕的境地，他们看起来也会非常普通，但他们总是从一个非常好的位置出发。而我从他们那里学到的、对我的决策影响最大的一点是他们关于假设的背景，如果他们让自己置身其中的话，他们会……
I don't know if it was Charlie, if it was Warren who said it, but if they had two investments sitting in the middle of the day, they were going to be able to get a good position. But if they had two investments sitting in front of them and they have an idea of what they project the outcome would be on those two investments, they then go to, well, how many assumptions are we making on these two things? And this one over here that looks even a little more sexy. But if we're looking at it and there's three assumptions that we're making and this one over here is only one assumption
我不确定是查理还是沃伦说的，但如果他们在中午有两个投资机会，他们会抓住这个好机会。如果他们面前有两个投资机会，并且对这两个投资的结果有一定的预测，他们接着会考虑的是，我们在这两个项目上做了多少假设。这个投资看起来更有吸引力，但如果我们在这上面做了三个假设，而另一个只做了一个假设，他们会怎么选择呢？
or two assumptions even with every assumption, the likelihood of success is like cutting it in half. And then I kind of reflect on my own life and a bunch of decisions that were made that I thought were going to be great outcomes for me. And I'm like, oh, how many assumptions was I making? And sometimes I wish it was only three assumptions. There was like nine assumptions I was making that were going to have to be successful in order for that thing to kind of pan out for me.
就算是只有两个假设，每增加一个假设，成功的可能性就像被减半一样。然后我反思自己的生活，想起很多当时以为会有好结果的决定。回想起来，我问自己：我当时做了多少个假设？有时候我希望自己只做了三个假设，但实际上我做了九个假设，认为这些假设都正确的话，事情就会对我有利。
That's a great example of a very methodical and patient process of making a good choice. I want to go back to like the 19 different deeks to the best in the world at sports or business. Get really, really, really good at the basics. And then part of what makes them the best is their ability not to get bored with doing the simple things in a world that's attracted to the highlight reel. I would actually change that and say it's not their ability to not get bored. It's for them to attack the boring things with an intention of understanding that that's what will separate them from everybody else.
这是一个非常细致和耐心的选择过程的很好例子。我想回到世界上最优秀的运动员或商业精英的19个不同的选择。首先，他们会非常非常非常擅长基础知识。而使他们成为顶尖的部分原因是，他们能够忍受重复做那些简单的事情，尽管这个世界更喜欢看精彩片段。我其实想换个说法，不是他们不觉得无聊，而是他们带着明确的目标去攻克那些枯燥的事情，因为他们知道这会让他们与众不同。
I see even in the world of business, especially nowadays where everything is a highlight reel on Instagram or Twitter or LinkedIn. And that is just not the case. There's so much of the work that we all do behind the scenes. Like, if you want to win, you've got to know how to execute. And it's in the execution that so many people break. They just don't want to do the things. Everyone wants the noun without the verb. They want the best selling book, but they don't want to do the work of writing for the best selling book because it's a painful process as someone who's written it. It's it challenged me. Is that fear that prevents us from doing that?
我发现即使在商业世界里，尤其是当下，所有事情似乎都在Instagram、Twitter或LinkedIn上展示高光时刻。而事实并非如此。我们所有人在幕后的工作实在是太多了。如果你想取得胜利，你必须知道如何执行。很多人就是在执行时失败了，他们不愿意付出努力。每个人都想要成果，却不愿意付出行动。他们想要畅销书，但却不愿意经历写作畅销书的痛苦过程。作为一个写过的人，我知道这有多么具挑战性。是恐惧阻止了我们前行吗？
Well, from my experience, one of the major things that causes that, Shane, is the lack of admitting to yourself what it is that you actually want. So many people that have come to me and they feel stuck or they feel maybe they built a business that has trapped them in some way. And they're trying to figure it out. And they're kind of delaying on taking some of the actions that they know they should be doing.
根据我的经验，Shane，其中一个主要原因是你没有真正承认自己究竟想要什么。很多来找我的人都觉得自己被困住了，或者他们觉得自己建立了一个让自己受限的生意，他们试图找出原因。他们知道自己应该采取一些行动，但却一直在拖延。
I'll just ask them, did you accidentally build this business? We make these assumptions that, you know, we sat down and we said, I'm going to build that business right there. And it was such a smart intention. I'm an accidental entrepreneur. A lot of people, I think, have gotten themselves through just great action into a corner, but it's not really what they want. I think that the reason that many people would have levels of dissatisfaction or they aren't maybe taking the inspired action that they're supposed to be taking is because it's not what they actually want. And they know that.
我会直接问他们：你是否不经意间创建了这家公司？我们常常假设，人们坐下来，决定要建那样的一家公司，仿佛是经过深思熟虑的明智决定。但我是一个意外的创业者。我认为很多人通过实际行动把自己推到了一个角落里，但这并不是他们真正想要的。我觉得很多人不满意或者没有采取他们应该采取的行动，是因为他们知道那不是他们真正想要的。
And I think most people really don't sit down and be really honest with themselves about what it is that they truly want to be doing. And one of the reasons that they don't is because if you, Shane, were to actually pursue the thing you want and start taking action on it, you're losing the excuse of hope. I think hope is a double-edged sword like everything in nature. Something can't only be good because nature tells us that that doesn't work. Hyperhidrosis and hypohydrosis. Water isn't always good.
我认为大多数人其实并没有真正静下心来，诚实地面对自己内心真正想要做的事情。而他们之所以不这样做的原因之一是，如果你，Shane，真的去追求想做的事情并开始付诸行动，那么你就失去了借口，也就是"希望"。我认为希望是一把双刃剑，就像自然界中的一切一样。没有什么事物是只有好的一面，因为自然界告诉我们那行不通。多汗症和少汗症（的存在）就是例子。水也不总是好的。
When you and I are floating in the middle of the ocean, the last thing I want is more water unless it's rain water to help me fuel my body. And hope is the same way. Hope can't only be good. Because if I'm hoping that maybe someday I'm going to be an actor in Hollywood, and that's always just a dream in my mind, but I never take action on it. It's actually a place of safety and security because the moment I take action on it, I no longer have that warm blanket of hope that someday maybe I'll be able to go and do it. And I think that many people stay stuck where they are not pursuing the things that they really want to do because of hope.
当你和我漂浮在大海中央时，我最不需要的就是更多的水，除非是可以补充我身体能量的雨水。希望也是一样。希望不总是好东西。因为如果我一直希望有一天能成为好莱坞的演员，但从不付诸行动，那希望只是我脑海中的一个梦想。实际上，这希望是一种安全感，因为一旦我真正采取行动，就不再有那种“有一天我也许能实现”的温暖感觉了。我认为，许多人停滞不前、不去追求自己真正想做的事情，正是因为这种希望。
Is hope the difference between interested and committed then? Yeah, great question. It would play a part. It would play a part. And then some of those other things that get in the way there between interest and commitment are the things that you had brought up earlier, whether it's the fear of rejection, the fear of losing face somehow, the fear of testing your skills because we think we're kind of good at something. And maybe we're not.
那么，希望是否是区分“感兴趣”和“全心投入”的关键呢？是的，这是个好问题。希望确实会有影响。不过，还有其他一些因素会妨碍从感兴趣到全心投入的转变，比如你之前提到的拒绝的恐惧、丢面子的担忧，或者因为我们认为自己某方面很擅长，但实际上可能并不是那么出色，对自己技能进一步测试的恐惧。
I'll give you an example. Well, I'm trying to scale a software company with two co-founders for people in the coaching space. And I love putting myself back into that what I call the field of play constantly because I want to test myself. Todd, you can give this advice very good to other people. But how good are you at following product market fit methodology? How good are you at defining a specific target market to get traction inside of and sticking with it?
我给你举个例子。我正在和两位联合创始人一起扩展一家面向教练行业的软件公司。我喜欢不断把自己放回到实际操作中，因为我想测试自己。Todd，你可以很好地给其他人提供建议，但你自己在遵循产品市场契合度方法方面有多出色呢？你在确定一个具体的目标市场并在其中获得吸引力并坚持下去方面有多厉害呢？
So for me going back to that whole fear of not taking action, I have a real fear of inaction because I want to test myself. Where does that fear of inaction come from? One is cultural. Definitely cultural influences from your, whether it's your childhood. I'm not a therapist. I don't do that kind of work with people. But ideas that people have about what the taking action is going to mean or the negative responses that they had when they were younger that really created a strong narrative about how bad it is to go and take action on something.
对我来说，回到那种不采取行动的恐惧，我真的很害怕无所作为，因为我想挑战自己。那么，这种对无所作为的恐惧从何而来呢？其中一个原因是文化的影响。无论是童年时期的影响还是其他文化影响，这些都在其中起作用。我不是治疗师，不会做那种心理分析的工作。但是，人们对采取行动的看法或他们小时候经历的负面反应，的确会在他们心中形成强烈的观念，认为采取行动是多么糟糕。
And then again, it's the fear of losing the hope because if I always live in inaction, but I still have my hope of like doing it, I'm not going to lose that. That warm feeling that I have about daydreaming about that thing. And I'm not confronted with the realities. And then the fear of uncertainty is another thing. Will I lose the money if I invested it this way into my business and will I lose my time and, oh geez, what else am I going to be missing out on if I actually stay committed to this one thing and become very myopic in trying to channel my energies towards that. And I always try to like to flip that with people and say that you have no idea the version of you that's waiting for you on the other side of being committed. Because the side of you that you're going to meet that only stays in the area of interested is going to be the very same version of you that you're experiencing right now.
然后，又是因为害怕失去希望。因为如果我一直处于无所作为的状态，但我依然抱有那种实现梦想的希望，我就不会失去那种温暖的感觉，不会失去对那个梦想的幻想。而我也不会面对现实。另外，不确定性的恐惧也是一道障碍。如果把钱投到生意上，会不会赔钱？会不会浪费时间？哦天啊，如果我真的坚持做一件事情，把所有精力都集中在这件事情上，我还会错过什么？我总是试图帮助别人换个角度思考，并告诉他们，你无法预见在坚持之后会遇到一个怎样的自己。因为那个只停留在感兴趣阶段的自己，和你现在的自己是完全一样的。
But the person that becomes committed, it's a forcing function on your skills to forcing function on your traits and your attributes that you've already developed. And if you take with yourself a very curious mind of, no, I'm like, if you just have, I have a fundamental belief, Shane, that I'm going to figure things out. And that I'm, I'm going to stumble. I'm going to fall. But I also know I have the capacity to pick myself up and continue marching forward. And the reason I know that and the reason that everyone that's here listening to this right now knows that is you're here. That's how I know that you have the capacity to pick yourself up because you're here because everybody gets knocked down. I just want to get knocked down pursuing the things that I want to go and pursue.
但是一旦一个人下定决心，这会强迫你提升自己的技能，并锤炼你已经培养出的特质和能力。如果你抱着非常好奇的心态，坚定地相信自己会找到解决办法，那就对了。Shane，我坚信我会找到解决办法。我会绊倒，我会跌倒，但我也知道我有能力爬起来继续前进。我之所以知道这一点，以及所有在听的人之所以知道，就是因为你们都在这里。这就是我知道你们有能力爬起来的原因，因为你们在这里。每个人都会被击倒，我只是希望在追求自己想要追求的事情时被击倒。
I think that's really powerful, right? That sort of, I think people often think they need the courage to get to the outcome versus the courage to figure it out as I go along the way. And there are two very different types of courage. When you have, when you're thinking about the courage to the outcome, the gap between where you are and the outcome is huge. So it becomes very hard and then hope is easy, right? So you can gravitate towards hope. And I'm just sort of thinking about this out loud in relation to the conversation. But courage to figure it out means I can't, like hope doesn't play a role, right? It's the courage to take the first step that matters and then I don't care if it goes left or right. I'll just like course correct as I go along.
我觉得这真的很有力量，对吧？很多人常常认为勇气是为了达到最终的结果，而不是在途中慢慢摸索。这是两种完全不同的勇气。当你考虑勇气去实现结果时，你和结果之间的差距非常大，所以变得很难坚持，结果就很容易产生希望。而我只是根据这次对话在思考这个问题。但拥有摸索过程的勇气意味着希望不再是关键，而是迈出第一步的勇气很重要，不管是向左还是向右，都可以在过程中纠正方向。
And think about this too, Shane, to your great point about courage for the outcome. It's also very egoic for you and I to even think that we even know what the outcome is going to be in the future anyway. Like, don't forget the things that you're wanting right now are coming from your current level of identity and how you view and see yourself. But the more that you push yourself into challenging situations, you do tough stuff, you pick up hard things, you have hard conversations with people, that's changing your level of ability, which is going to change how you view and see yourself. And because the way that you view and see yourself is different, it's going to open up different ideas around what it is that you want. And so now your vision is constantly changing as you're evolving and iterating. And so like what you think you wanted three months ago, six months ago, if you're a person that is challenging yourself, it's going to change that vision. It might crystallize it better, greater clarity. You're going to figure out what you don't want.
Shane，考虑一下这个问题：你提到的对结果的勇气非常重要，但其实认为自己能预知未来的结果是一种自负的表现。别忘了，你现在想要的东西都是基于你当前的身份和你如何看待自己的。然而，当你不断挑战自己，做一些困难的事情，与人进行艰难的对话，你的能力水平就会提升，从而改变你对自己的看法。因为你对自己的看法改变了，你对想要追求的东西也会有不同的想法。因此，随着你的不断进化和迭代，你的愿景也会不断变化。因此，如果你是一个不断挑战自己的人，那么你三个月前、六个月前认为自己想要的东西，可能已经发生了变化。这些变化可能会让你的目标更加清晰明确，同时也会让你知道自己不想要什么。
Let's bring about to environment before we go into identity. I think you can use your environment to take your desired behavior and make it your default behavior. You've been working with thousands of people who perform consistently across sports and business. What do they do differently about their environment to maximize success? And using the term success very broadly in terms of performance, not successes. And like what are they doing to improve their physical performance, their mental performance there? What does, what do the environments look like? What's different? Well, one that can't be ignored is the luck of where they were born. It just can't be underestimated how critical that is to the success factor of someone. So these are choices that they didn't even make. It was just, they got lucky being where they are.
在我们探讨身份认同之前，先聊聊环境吧。我认为你可以利用环境来实现你想要的行为，并使其成为你的默认行为。你与成千上万在体育和商业领域表现出色的人合作过。他们为了最大化成功，在环境方面做了哪些不同的事情呢？在这里我们用“成功”这个词非常广泛地指代表现，而不是具体的成功案例。他们在提高身体和心理表现方面做了什么？他们的环境长什么样？有什么不同？
一个不可忽视的因素是他们出生地点的运气。这个因素对一个人的成功有多重要，不能被低估。所以，这些是他们自己没有选择的东西，只是因为他们很幸运，出生在他们所在的地方。
So statistically speaking, the best size of city or town to live in to develop your sporting skillset is around a quarter of a million people. Because at a quarter of a million people, the level of competition can be well above average in that area. The quality of coaches that you could get now increases over that of 100,000 person city. And so it's that kind of sweet spot of size. Now that's inside of now a culture that would be maybe valuing that type of sport.
从统计学上讲，培养体育技能的最佳城市或镇的人口规模大约是25万人左右。因为在25万人口的地方，竞争水平通常会高于平均水平。你能找到的教练质量也比10万人口的城市要高。因此，这是一个理想的人口规模。当然，这还需要在一种重视该类体育运动的文化环境中。
So in Canada, hockey, quarter of a million person city, you're going to get good coaching. But if in Canada, you were trying to play and become very good at rugby, maybe not. There's that side of things. There's many factors outside of ourselves because we want to index towards me. Like what made me do this? And I like to tell people like I think about 33% of my whatever successes and outcomes I've had in my life, I'm going to index towards luck.
在加拿大，如果你住在一个有二十五万人口的城市，你要打冰球的话，会有很好的教练资源。但如果你是在加拿大想打橄榄球并且做到很出色，就可能没那么容易了。这反映了事情的另一面。其实有很多因素是我们无法控制的，因为我们总是喜欢把事情归因到自己身上。比如说，我取得的一些成功，我认为其中大约33%的因素可以归功于运气。
And that's not me stealing competency from myself. It's actually, for me, it's very empowering because I'm like, oh, how can I engineer more of that? Because there are just many fun happenstances that happen for me. But that was also because I was taking action, but I'm looking for more luck. But in the environment, getting to like what also shaped the athlete, it would be definitely the quality and the excellence of the coaching and the talent that they had around them.
这并不是我在贬低自己的能力。实际上，对我来说，这让我感到非常有力量，因为我会想，我怎样才能创造更多这样的机会呢？因为我经历了很多有趣的偶然事件。但这也是因为我在积极行动，不过我还是在寻找更多的好运。在这种环境中说到成为一名运动员，绝对包括教练的素质和优秀，以及他们周围的才华。
And so I grew up on a big farm in Ranch in Alberta, Canada. I tooled her brothers. And so, you know, typically when there was a three boy job to go and do, it typically meant that it was hard labor and my older brothers loved to make me do the crappiest part of it. So I didn't develop the affinity towards it that they did. Now I'm getting ready to go off to College University. And I was working with my dad in the corrals with some cattle. And we stopped just to take a quick break.
我在加拿大阿尔伯塔省的一个大农场长大。小时候我常和哥哥们一起干活。通常情况下，三个人一起做的工作都是比较辛苦的体力活，而我的哥哥们总是让我干最累最脏的部分。所以，我并没有像他们一样对这些工作产生热情。现在，我正准备去上大学。有一次，我和爸爸在围栏里处理一些牛，中途我们停下来休息了一会儿。
He was a man of air, a few words, but he said, Todd, you know, it's obviously you're not going to be moving back to the farm in Ranch. You're not going to become a farmer. Hopefully, Mom and I have given you some like really great foundation like character integrity stuff that's not going to fail you. But you're going to go and do things that we're probably not going to give you very good advice on.
他是个不善言辞的人，但他说，托德，很显然你不会回到农场了，你也不会成为一个农民。希望我和妈妈给你打下了很好的基础，比如品格和诚信方面的，这些能帮到你。但是，你要去做的事情，可能我们无法给你很好的建议。
So my only advice to you would be like, whatever you go and do, believe in yourself enough to surround yourself with the best. Really find people who are at the very top and tuck yourself under their wing. And that has been made all the difference for me. So now going back to those clients of mine, those athletes, they had, whether it's one person or they had three people or they had a team around them. And especially when they're more into the pro ranks. Nowadays, they had at least one great coach who could really help them with the technical side of their sport along the way.
所以，我唯一的建议是：无论你要去做什么，一定要坚信自己，并尽量让自己周围都是最优秀的人。真正找到在各个领域顶尖的人，把自己置于他们的羽翼之下。这对我来说产生了巨大的不同。回到我那些客户，那些运动员们，无论是一个人，三个人还是一个团队在他们身边，尤其是在他们进入职业阶层的时候，如今，他们至少有一位优秀的教练，可以在技术方面真正帮助他们。
The coaching thing is interesting because it made me think of imposter syndrome where you said believe in yourself enough that you can get the best coaching. And imposter syndrome is kind of a way that we maybe bully ourselves a bit. I have a really hard time with that phrase, Shane. It basically was non-existent in the 2000s.
教练这个话题很有趣，因为它让我想到了冒充者综合症（Imposter Syndrome）。你说要相信自己，才能得到最好的教练。而冒充者综合症有点像是一种我们自己打击自己的方式。Shane，我对这个说法感到很困扰。其实在2000年代基本上没人提到这种症状。
Imposter syndrome is a new term anyway. It's actual route where it came from was two ladies in Texas in the 1970s. And it was actually called imposter phenomenon. And what it was there to explain was in this new world of work where women were both coming into and building careers for themselves and they were also still holding that main role of being a caretaker at home. They felt like they were kind of being imposters in both. Like they weren't good at either of them.
冒名顶替综合症是一个比较新的词汇。其实它最早是由美国德克萨斯州的两位女士在1970年代提出的，当时被称为冒名顶替现象。这种现象是用来解释在新的工作环境中，女性一方面进入职场并为自己建立职业生涯，另一方面仍然需要承担家庭照顾者的主要角色。在这两方面，女性感觉自己像是冒名顶替者，似乎哪一方面都做得不够好。
And then in 2010 when Instagram came around, you can see it literally in Google's search algorithm. Imposter syndrome starts to take off. Well, some of that was because people were now posturing with veneers of their lives online. There was now filters to our photos to make ourselves look better or be more stylish. And then you have the rise of influencers who now have these easily accessed platforms to talk to people about subject matter. They have no expertise in whatsoever. They have no nuance of understanding around it whatsoever.
然后在2010年，Instagram出现了，你可以从谷歌的搜索算法中看到，冒名顶替综合症（Imposter Syndrome）开始流行。部分原因是因为人们开始在网上展示他们生活的光鲜面。他们用滤镜美化照片，让自己看起来更好或者更时尚。随后，随着影响力人士（Influencers）的崛起，这些人可以轻松地利用这些平台和大众讨论各种话题，而他们对此毫无专业知识，也没有任何深入的理解。
So imposter syndrome, I think, has become a catch-all term for all of the mental maladies of human beings and it's crap to me. Really, it only is three things. One, imposter syndrome is, or imposter phenomenon would be that you have sort of given up all of your successes in life, your achievements to luck, right place, right time. Nowadays, it's privilege and a bunch of different terms now. You're not responsible for your anything that's happened. Yeah, and you dismiss it, basically, right?
所以，我认为冒名顶替综合症已经成了一个万能标签，用来描述人类所有的心理问题，我觉得这很荒谬。实际上，这种综合症只有三个方面。第一，它指的是你把生活中的所有成功和成就都归因于运气、碰巧在正确的时间和地点，或者是你所谓的“特权”等等。简单来说，就是你不认为自己对发生的一切有任何责任，你完全否认了自己的努力。
And that's very toxic to your overall level of confidence and level of self-efficacy, your belief in your ability to go and make things happen. That's what self-efficacy really means. And so to those people, I always give them the same piece of advice. What you've done is you're sitting at the poker table of life and you've robbed yourself of your chips. And so I keep this on my desk, Jane. So people are listening. I have a little glass jar and it has a whole bunch of poker chips inside of it. We need to do a really good job of owning our wins, owning the skills that we developed, owning the circumstances and situations that we've pulled ourselves out of that might have caused other people to turn back and not enter the cave, so to speak, to use Joseph Campbell's words. Own those things.
这对你的整体自信心和自我效能感是非常有害的。自我效能感指的是你对于自己有能力去实现目标和完成任务的信念。对于那些人，我总是给他们同样的建议。你现在做的事情就像是在生命的扑克桌上，把自己的筹码都抢走了。因此，我在桌子上放了一个小玻璃罐，里面装满了扑克筹码。我们需要做到很好地承认自己的胜利，认可自己所发展的技能，承认我们克服的一些情况和环境，这些可能让其他人却步，不敢进入"洞穴"，用的是约瑟夫·坎贝尔的话。要承认这些事情。
And there's a great story from the former CEO of Levi's, where when they were going into China, he was very concerned that it wasn't going to be successful. And stressing about it, losing sleep over it. And he has this journal that he keeps on his desk. And he broke down his entire life into three-year increments from zero to two and three to five and six and on and on and on. And what he did was he catalogued all the things that he learned and all the skills that he developed and, you know, knowledge he gained, a wisdom he gained throughout that, all these periods of his life. And he'd pick it up and he'd flip through it. And the reason he'd flip through it is because at the end of flipping through it, he would always come to the conclusion, oh, no matter what gets thrown in my way, I'll figure it out. Like, look, I've just proven that over time. And so I say that because to that person who discounts themselves, like they do with who am I to go after that? Stack the confidence chips. Play at the poker table of life with your actual chips that you've earned over time. So that's one thing. So we discount.
这是一个关于前Levi's公司CEO的精彩故事。当他们进入中国市场时，他非常担心项目不会成功，甚至为此焦虑失眠。他有一本日记本，总是放在办公桌上。他把自己的人生按照每三年分成一个阶段，从零到两岁、三到五岁、六岁一直到现在。在每个阶段，他记录自己学到了什么技能、获得了什么知识和智慧。他时不时会拿起这本日记，翻看过去的记录。每次翻看之后，他总能得出一个结论：无论遇到什么困难，他都能找到解决办法，因为他已经证明了自己能够克服困难。
我提到这个故事，是想告诉那些不自信的人，不要轻视自己。你应该像玩扑克一样，把自己多年来积累的信心“筹码”放在桌上进行游戏。我们经常低估自己。
The second thing that imposter phenomenon is actually about is the fear and the concern or the worry of what that people are going to find you out. That you're not as good as they think that you are. Now, that kind of diverges into two roads. If you're someone who's posturing and positing a sense of skill sets and competencies that are not rooted in truth whatsoever, then here's the reality. You should be found out. But for those that feel like they're going to be found out, I just tell them the same thing. Stack your chips. Go back. Like, are you trying to posture like this perfect persona of every single poem that you write is going to be the next raven? Or, well, then you've just created a paradigm and a set of rules around yourself that's going to be really hard to win inside of. And so that's what I've often found is people have rules about what success is going to mean, which then causes them to feel like they might be found out. And I would just say, let's pull yourself right back into the process.
冒名顶替现象实际上涉及的第二件事是对别人发现你并不像他们想的那样优秀的恐惧和担忧。这种担忧有两种情况。如果你是一个完全在虚张声势、炫耀自己没有的技能和能力的人，那么现实就是，你应该被揭穿。但对于那些担心被发现的人，我通常会告诉他们同样的事情：积累筹码，回到原点。比如，你是不是在试图表现出每一首你写的诗都像《乌鸦》一样完美的形象？如果是这样，那你给自己设定了一个很难取胜的范式和规则。我经常发现，人们为成功设定了规则，这反过来又导致他们觉得自己可能会被发现。我会建议你，把自己拉回到过程中来。
That's why I like to index towards career. There's going to be a lot of stuff over my career that I'm going to put out or I'm going to create that just doesn't hit the mark. Here's my response. So what? I want to come back to environment for a second in terms of how much of success for knowledge workers get outside of the realm of athletes here for a second, but probably relates to athletes as well. So, you know, is subtracting things like your environment, your surface area of responsibilities, naturally gross, your surface area of projects you want to take on, of commitments that you have of people reaching in more successful. So I'm going to show to you how much of developing performance is getting reps in what you're good at, which means subtracting all of these other things. So getting rid of priorities, you know, simplifying your life and not letting this surface area continuously expand.
这就是为什么我倾向于关注职业发展的原因。在我的职业生涯中，会有很多我发布或创造的东西没有达到预期效果。对此，我的反应是：那又怎样？现在让我稍微回到环境这个话题，谈谈知识工作者的成功因素，虽然这可能也适用于运动员。比如说，通过减少环境的干扰、简化职责范围，能使我们更专注于想要从事的项目和已经承诺的任务，从而更成功。那么，我要告诉你的是，提高表现的很大一部分在于专注于你擅长的领域，这意味着要删除其他所有干扰。因此，去除优先事项，简化生活，不要让自己的关注点无限扩展。
It's undeniable that that's a major part of that process of being more valuable. Because we were talking before about success, and I don't like that term. I think of, I think in the terms of being useful and being valuable, the more useful you are, the more valuable you are, then whatever success is going to happen is going to happen, I think. But when I'm working with people, we subtract, we remove, and we delete. So that I can get you into what I call the float channel. Highly ambitious people, typically the main lever that they pull in their life is the lever of more. And then they wonder why they're buried under a weight of stress and overwhelm, and then ultimately they get burned out. Happens in entrepreneurship a lot, happens in knowledge work a lot, and that's because your ambition got in the way, which then comes down to a really poor decision making process of like, what is the most important, most valuable, highest impact thing that I could be working on right now. And your answer to that, if you're super impatient, you typically will be looking for dopamine hits of things that are immediate feedback loops, as opposed to long term. It's great to have this balance of like, I'm working on this really long term thing, that it's return on investment, or it's return on my skills is going to be just orders of magnitude, huge, or return on meaning to me.
不可否认，这是提升自我价值的重要部分。因为我们之前谈论了成功，我并不喜欢这个词。我更倾向于用“有用”和“有价值”的概念来思考。你越有用，就越有价值，那么无论成功是什么，它都会自然而然地发生。我与人合作时，通常会去掉、移除和删除一些东西，这样我可以把你带入我称之为“流动频道”的状态。高企图心的人，通常会不断追求“更多”，然后他们发现自己被压力和纷扰淹没，最终导致倦怠。这种情况在企业家和知识工作者中很常见，因为他们的雄心妨碍了他们做出正确的决策。这个决策过程涉及到识别当前最重要、最有价值、最具影响力的任务。如果你非常急躁，你通常会寻求即时反馈带来的多巴胺快感，而不是长期的回报。实际上，保持平衡非常重要：你既要进行长期的工作，它的投资回报或者技能回报规模巨大，给你带来的意义也非常重大。
And then there's these other things that you can work on that get you traction in the short term. So knowledge workers, one of their biggest challenges is absolutely not trying to do too much, not trying to add so many projects onto their plate. And I think of, Shane, I don't know, do you read many autobiographies by chance? A few, yeah, welcome someone. The reason I read them is because in the nuance and the grout of those books, you hear very much a similar story. I grew up in a place, I was like kind of a fish of a water, it wasn't the best place for someone like me. Maybe I didn't have the right parents, sometimes they did have the right parents, those parents opened them up to a world that other kids never got an opportunity. But I felt like as a bit of a fraud, or I couldn't do what my parents did, or I wish I could go and be like so and so.
然后，还有其他一些能在短期内取得进展的事情可以做。对于知识工作者来说，他们面临的一个最大挑战就是不要试图做太多，不要试图在自己的任务列表中添加太多项目。Shane，我在想，你会读很多自传吗？偶尔会读一些，对，欢迎推荐。 我阅读这些书的原因是，在这些书的细节和小故事中，你会听到非常相似的故事。我在一个地方长大，感觉像离水的鱼，这个地方对我这样的人来说并不是最合适的。也许我没有合适的父母，有时他们确实有合适的父母，这些父母让他们看到了其他孩子没有机会看到的世界。但我感觉自己有点像个骗子，或者我不能做到我父母做的事，或者我希望能像某某一样过上那样的生活。
And there's this pathway of a lot of times people not pursuing the thing that they most wanted to do. Instead, what we hear frequently is the Steven Spielberg stories of I got a camera when I was young and I fell in love with directing and making films. And so it's a terrible narrative for you to constantly be battered with is these people who found their things super early in life. Because then you lament the fact that you didn't or what didn't I see when I was younger and then you beat yourself up and you're like, oh, maybe I was supposed to be a caricaturist, because I did like drawing when I was in and then you question yourself and you doubt yourself. And it's like there's so many different ways that people found their thing.
很多时候，人们没有去追求自己最想做的事情。取而代之的是，我们常常听到像斯蒂文·斯皮尔伯格这样的故事：小时候拿到一台摄像机，然后爱上了导演和制作电影。这种故事不断冲击着我们，给我们带来了巨大的压力，因为这些人很早就发现了自己的兴趣所在。然后你就开始后悔自己为什么没有早点发现自己的兴趣，想着自己小时候错过了什么。你开始责备自己，怀疑自己，想着“也许我本应该做一个漫画家，因为我小时候喜欢画画”，然后你开始质疑自己，陷入自我怀疑中。其实，人们找到自己热爱的事物的途径有很多种，并不一定要那么早明确。
And I say this specifically because I love what Steve Martin had created as a frame for his life. When he was in his 20s, he resolved to live his life in decades. And he said, my 20s is going to be about mastering the craft of comedy. And then my 30s, he got there and he's like, well, now because of these opportunities that I have, I'm going to master the craft of acting. In his 40s, he's like, I'm going to start mastering the craft of music, specifically the banjo for him. And then his 50s has been about mastering the craft of painting. He's an amazing painter. This long view of things could really help people not feel so rushed in. I got to do this project right now. It's like, well, we're working with a decade here, man. So Shane Parrish is working on his next decade of becoming absolutely world-class at interviewing. Now, all of a sudden, you don't go and buy seven courses next week on interviewing skills or whatever. You're going to give yourself more time to sink into things. That's really powerful. I think when you think long-term, it prevents you from doing a lot of short-term behaviors naturally that either leads you astray, take you off the path of long-term thinking, or otherwise get in the way.
之所以特别提到这个，是因为我很喜欢史蒂夫·马丁为自己人生设定的框架。在他二十几岁的时候，他决定以十年为单位来规划自己的人生。他说：“我的二十多岁将是掌握喜剧这门技艺的时期。”到了三十多岁，他意识到有了更多的机会，他就决定要精通演技。到四十多岁时，他又决定开始专攻音乐，特别是班卓琴。而他五十多岁时则致力于绘画，并且成为了一位出色的画家。这种长远观念可以帮助人们不那么急于求成，不需要马上完成某个项目，而是以十年为单位来考虑问题。谢恩·派瑞什正在为下一个十年精心准备，努力成为一流的访谈专家。这样一来，你就不会突然在下一周去报名七个关于访谈技巧的课程，而是会给自己更多的时间去充分沉浸在其中。这种长期思维很有力量。我认为，当你考虑长期目标时，自然会避免很多短期行为，这些短期行为要么会带你偏离正轨，要么会妨碍你的长远目标。
If I go to you and I'm going to make this tangible, if I have a coworker and I go to them, and I have a problem with them, the way that I address that problem is going to be very different if I think I'm going to have a relationship with them for 10 years versus if I think they're only going to be here for a few days. And if I treat them like it's a transaction, they're going to behave like it's a transaction.
如果我去找你，我把这个说得具体一点，如果我有一个同事，我去找他们，并且我和他们有问题，我处理这个问题的方式会非常不同，这取决于我认为我们会有10年的关系，还是只是几天的关系。如果我把他们当做短暂的交易来对待，他们也会以交易的方式来回应。
It's going to reinforce my view that they're not committed. They're not, you know, it's just a job to them. It's not a career and it's going to change the opportunities they get. So this one little thing can make a huge difference in not only how you treat other people, but how it actually spirals beyond that moment into something much larger. Shane, like that's, and that's a fantastic example of taking a look at two people who are literally doing the same mechanical actions, whether it's a knowledge worker who's trying to grow themselves on LinkedIn. They're doing the exact same thing. They're posting things the same way.
这会让我更加确信他们并不投入。你知道吗，对他们来说，这只是一份工作，不是一份事业，这将会影响到他们的机会。所以这个小小的举动不仅会影响你对待他人的方式，而且会延伸成更大的问题。Shane，这是一个很好的例子，说明即便两个做同样机械性工作的员工，比如一个试图在LinkedIn上提升自我的知识型员工，他们的做法完全一样，发帖方式也一样，但结果却可能大不相同。
We've indexed so much towards habit and behavior so much recently, and I appreciate all the talk about habits, but there's another side of this whole thing. And so in that moment, that's a perfect example of the way your frame of mind is a part of the way that you're going about it. Now that way of going about it is like, hey, I'm going to have a long-term relationship with this person, whether they know it or not. And a long-term relationship could be, it might be just one interaction. We've all had those moments in life where someone came along at the right time for us and just really treated us like a human being.
我们最近在习惯和行为上花了很多时间，对于这些讨论我非常感激，但事情还有另一面。在那个时刻，这是一个完美的例子，展示了你的心态是如何影响你处理事情的方式。而这种处理方式就像是：“嘿，无论对方知不知道，我都希望能和这个人建立长期的关系。” 而这种长期关系可能只有一次互动。我们都经历过这样的时刻，有人在我们需要的时候出现，并真正把我们当作一个人来对待。
They saw something in the moment with us. They could have been just a nice word. It could have been just a smile, like anything that it just embeds in us in that moment in time. And that's how I think about what I call it citizen-tawed. We'll talk about identity in a bit. But that's another very important identity that I have that I take out into the world. Living in New York City, there's a lot of people who they put on their headphones and they think that because they have their headphones on, the world doesn't exist. That's a pretty terrible way to show up and be a contributor in society, I think.
他们在那一刻和我们看到了什么。那可能只是一个好听的话，也可能只是一个微笑，像任何铭刻在我们心里的瞬间。我把这种现象称为"公民影像"。稍后我们会谈谈身份问题，但我有一个非常重要的身份，我带着它走向世界。住在纽约市，有很多人戴上耳机，以为只要戴上耳机，世界就不存在了。我认为这是一种非常糟糕的方式，无法在社会中做出贡献。
So I think I've got a responsibility as citizen-tawed when I go out there to who knows if today is a day that I give someone a moment that shapes and shifts them and puts them back on course or does evolve into some sort of long-term relationship. Because we do, whether we like it or not, we do have long-term relationships with people. But a lot of times it's not physically, it's just inside their own head. And the interesting thing about long-term too is it allows for compounding. And what we know about compounding is all the gains come at the end, not at the beginning.
所以，我觉得作为一个公民，我有责任去面对外面的世界。谁知道今天是否会是我给某人带来一个瞬间，那个瞬间可能会让他们重新找回方向，甚至可能发展成某种长期关系。因为我们确实——无论我们喜不喜欢——与人是有长期关系的。但很多时候，这种关系并不是体现在现实中，而是在他们的脑海里。而长期关系的有趣之处在于，它允许复利效应。我们知道，复利效应的所有收益都是在最后累积出来的，而不是在一开始。
So if you take yourself off that path through loss of trust or transactional behavior or not a win-win situation, you immediately take yourself off the long game. And if you take yourself off the long game, you've immediately ruled out exponential returns on whatever you're doing. Shane, an example with that. And any child client was in the Stanley Cup playoffs and it was game one very tightly contested first game. And it did come down to overtime. He hopped off the bench, got on the ice, accepted a pass coming over the other team's blue line.
所以，如果你因为失去信任、交易性行为或非双赢的局面而偏离原本的道路，你就立刻退出了长远发展的游戏。而一旦退出长远发展，你就立即失去了你所做事情的指数级回报。Shane，这里举个例子。有个年轻的客户参加了斯坦利杯季后赛的比赛，那是第一场比赛，竞争非常激烈，比赛进入了加时赛。他从板凳上跳起来，上了冰面，在对方蓝线接到了一个传球。
And he snapped a one in a million shot over the left-hand corner. He's coming down the right wing, snapped it over the left-hand shoulder of the goalie who is absolutely stellar that game and fit the puck in between a window the size of a puck. And so everyone's like one in a million shot. No, Ryan practiced that shot thousands of times. That exact spot on the ice, and I get chills just thinking what, the amount of effort that you're putting in to maybe, to maybe one day in a high-pressure situation, be able to deliver that shot.
他在左上角打出了一记百万分之一的射门。他从右侧边线冲过来，将球打过守门员的左肩，那个守门员在那场比赛中表现非常出色，而球刚好通过一个小得像冰球一样的窗口进网。所以大家都觉得这是百万分之一的运气进球。其实不然，瑞恩为了这个射门练习了成千上万次。在冰场那个精准的位置，他练习了无数次。想到他投入了那么多努力，也许有一天在高压情况下能打出这样的射门，我就不禁起鸡皮疙瘩。
That's compounding. Totally. The compounding effect, because the compounding effect delivers confidence, because there's a lot of guys who don't pull the trigger on that shot. He was covered by the defenseman very well. The goalie was in the perfect position for him. There's nothing about that situation that says he should have taken that shot, but he did. And that comes to ultimately everything I ever try to help someone with Shane. At the end of the day, Shane, I want you to trust yourself.
那就是复利效应，完全是。这种复利效应带来了信心，因为很多人就是不敢出手。在那种情况下，他被防守球员严密盯防，守门员也站在最佳位置上，似乎一切都显示他不该出手，但他还是出手了。这正是我一直在尝试帮助别人的核心所在，Shane。归根结底，Shane，我希望你相信自己。
Trust is different than confidence. It's at the DNA level. When you feel like you trust yourself, that's when time is collapsing. Think about an alpine skier who's standing at the top of a mountain that looks like it's a vertical cliff and it's in the Olympics. It comes once every four years. So here they are. They're skis standing in the gate, getting ready to go down this vertical face. In that moment, that's the present moment.
信任不同于信心。它是在你内心深处的。当你感觉你信任自己的时候，就是时间在压缩的那一刻。想象一下，一个高山滑雪运动员站在山顶，下面看起来像是个垂直的悬崖，而且这是在奥运会中，每四年才有一次的机会。他们站在起跑门口，准备滑下这个垂直面。在那一刻，就是此时此刻。
I want to do everything I possibly can to help that person in that moment trust themselves. Well, what is the equation of trust in that moment? Well, past tense, that's where all of your preparation comes in. Did you show up? Did you do the work? Have you put in the reps? Did you prepare yourself on not only the days where it was a little bit overcast so that it wasn't too sunny and it was not slushy or it wasn't icy? Did you only ever practice with being the first person to take the run around the freshly groomed slope? Or did you also practice being the 26th person to go around those gates with tracks already grooved in? Things starting to get a little bit slushy and a little bit icy where your skis start to slip a little bit. Have you practiced the slipping of the edges of your. If you have, and all those things are in affirmative, great. I've built up trust in your preparation. Yeah. Then it gets to the future. Do you trust the future? The future is your plan.
在那个瞬间，我想尽我所能帮助那个人信任自己。那么，那个瞬间的信任是什么公式呢？过去时，这就是你所有准备工作的体现。你是否到位了？你是否完成了工作？你是否进行了足够的训练？你是否在不仅仅是阴天的时候做好了准备，以避免过于阳光灿烂、不太泥泞或不太冰滑的时候？你是否只在刚刚整修过的雪道上作为第一个滑雪的人进行了练习，还是也在其他人已经滑过留下痕迹的情况下进行了练习，当雪道变得有点泥泞和冰滑时，你的滑雪板开始打滑？你是否练习过边缘打滑的情况？如果你练习过，所有这些都满足了，很好。我对你的准备工作建立了信任。那么接下来是未来。你信任未来吗？未来是你的计划。
Do you trust your plan? The way that you're going to go down those gates? Do you have multiple plans? Because, oh, shit. Today, you're in the 18th slot. You're not in the first or second slot. It's going to be a little sloppy going around those things. Or the wind kicked up for you. It didn't kick up for the persons that went before you. Now, what are you going to do with that? I hope it's a so what? I hope it's a watch me, which is now bringing you into the moment. Do you trust the plan that you have or the plans that you have to adjust? That's flexibility and adaptability. That's mental toughness. Your ability to be flexible and adaptable despite what you're getting as the circumstance that you're dealt with. That's mental toughness. So now we come to the moment. If you trust those two things, then the likelihood that you're going to trust yourself, which is diff. It's going to build confidence. It's going to build certainty that you've got this. And then we work out what's your phrase, Shane. What's the thing you're going to say to yourself so that you can get into the moment, get out of your ego, and trust all of these things aligning for you. Your prep, your plan, and then now you're just the vehicle and the vessel to deliver those two things in the moment.
你相信你的计划吗？你打算怎么通过那些门？你有没有多个计划？因为，哦，糟糕。今天，你在第18个位置，而不是第一个或第二个。绕过那些门会有点混乱。或者说，突然来了阵风，而之前的人没遇到这种情况。现在，你会怎么应对？希望你的反应是“那又怎样？”希望你能说“看我的”，这样你就能进入当下。你相信你的计划或者调整计划的能力吗？这是灵活性和适应能力，这是心理韧性。尽管面临不同的情况，你还能灵活应对，这就是心理韧性。所以，现在让我们进入当下。如果你相信这两点，那么你很可能会相信自己，这会建立信心和确信感。接下来我们要做的是确定你的口头禅，Shane。你会对自己说什么，才能进入当下，摆脱自我怀疑，并相信所有这些东西对你有利。你的准备、你的计划，现在你只是执行这两点的载体。
And so is it let go, which is an often one. Is it let go and let God? Is it watch this mom? Whatever it is that's going to help to alleviate any tension or pressure that's always built up. Pressure is not real. Pressure is only delivered by the human itself. Someone says, this is a high pressure game. I don't let my clients and athletes think that way because I don't know that that's true. Truth is gravity. You experience gravity. I experience gravity. But pressure, some athletes deal with it differently than other people deal with it. That tells me that pressure is very elastic. So the commentators who are saying that this is high pressure, I've found that most of those people were middle of the road performers when they played their sport. And they dealt with pressure, not like the people that are elite or legends. So there's a different door that you can walk through. That door is preparation, planning, moment. It's all in the bands of time, past, future, present.
因此，让它过去吧，这是一种常有的情况。是把它交给上帝吗？是看这个妈妈吗？不管是什么，只要能帮助缓解任何累积的紧张或压力就好。压力并不是真实的，压力只是由人自己造成的。有人会说，这是一场高压的比赛。我不让我的客户和运动员这样想，因为我不知道那是否是真的。真相是重力。你感受到重力，我也感受到重力。但是压力，不同的运动员处理压力的方式不同，这让我知道压力是非常有弹性的。因此，那些说这是一场高压比赛的评论员，我发现他们大多数在他们的运动生涯中只是中等水平的表现者，他们处理压力的方式与那些精英或传奇人物不一样。所以，你可以走进另一扇门，那扇门是准备、计划和时刻。这一切都在时间的维度上，过去、未来和现在。
Do you have a hard time or your clients as well relating to average people? I don't think the average person, I don't think they want to get amazing at their craft or what they're doing. I think they're comfortable, I'll say that. Being okay. And convincing themselves and maybe relying on hope and all of this other stuff. But they don't sort of walk away from a meeting going, oh, what did I say? What could I have said better? Oh, here's how this could play out better or walk away from a poor performance going, what can I take away from that to the next one so that I get better, so that I improve. And it has nothing to do with blame or anything. It's just, you know, you don't blame circumstances. You just sort of look at looking in the mirror and you're confronted with you and your performance on that day. And maybe they were better that day and maybe they weren't. But like you take away something from that and get better. I think people like us and maybe I'm wrong. Just have a hard time sort of understanding people who are not like that. Boy, we have a long conversation about this Shane. So I'm going to be vulnerable for people.
你是否在与普通人交流时感到困难，或者你的客户也有这种困难？我觉得一般人并不想在他们的专业或工作中变得非常出色。我认为他们感到舒适，这么说吧，安于现状，并且说服自己、依靠希望等等。他们似乎不会在会议后反思说，"哦，我说了什么？我还能说得更好么？这里有更好的处理方法"。也不会在糟糕的表现后问自己，"我能从中学到什么，为下一次做得更好，以便进步？" 这与责怪无关，你不怪环境。你只是看看镜子中的自己，面对当天的表现。也许那天别人表现得更好，也许没有。但你总是从中学到东西并不断改进。我觉得像我们这样的人，很难理解那些和我们不同的人。这是一个聊很久的话题，Shane，因此我要向大家坦诚一点。
I think I struggle with this. Kobe, Kobe and I would talk about this when I was building the black mamba with him. And he often said he just had no way of relating to people who just didn't want to be poor excellence, like just the best at their thing. You know, hard time relating to them. And I would say I was similar, but then after I matured and I still have to watch myself Shane because it is such an ego response to make myself probably feel good about myself. To judge someone else because they're not getting some sort of result or I perceive them as being average. Yeah. Because there's many reasons why someone might be getting average results. From my own experience of going through some, you know, difficult things in my life, I would hate to treat someone and make them feel like I'm so much better than you because look at what I've done.
我觉得我在这方面有些挣扎。当我和科比一起打造黑曼巴形象时，我们经常聊到这个问题。他经常说，他无法理解那些不追求卓越、只想要平庸的人。他很难与他们产生共鸣。而我之前也有类似的想法，但在我成熟之后，我意识到自己需要注意这种心态，因为这种优越感只是为了让我自己感觉良好而已。因为他们没有取得某种结果，或者我认为他们很平庸而去评判他们，这其实是一种自负的表现。而一个人取得平庸的结果是有很多原因的。从我自己的经历来看，我经历过一些艰难的时刻，所以我不愿意让别人感觉我比他们更优秀，因为看看我取得的成就。
Okay. Yeah. It's all internal, right? Like it's sort of like, and maybe it is my ego and we can use me as an example here because I feel safe talking about this. Like maybe it just is my internally. I just don't understand how people cannot want to get better at things or, and maybe I'm not seeing it. And there's an aspect of, you know, totally I could be blind to their process and blind to. But I also know what it looks like because I do it. Yeah. Same as like Kobe, right? Like he knows what it looks like. I know. To be successful on the court. It means waking up at 4 a.m. means shooting 10,000 free through it. It means doing all the work. And so he knows when somebody's not doing that. Well, on our relationship, that was one of the things that, well, I wouldn't say it fractured it, but we didn't speak for a long time because I challenged him on the same level of energy of excellence and being a father.
好的。对吧。这些都是内在的，对吗？可能也是我的自尊心在作祟，我们可以拿我自己来做例子，因为我觉得谈论这个让我感到安全。可能我就是内心里无法理解别人怎么会不想在某些事情上变得更好，或者可能我没有看见某些方面。我完全有可能对他们的过程视而不见。但是我也知道那是什么样子，因为我也在做这件事。就像科比一样，对吧？他知道那是什么样子。我知道，要在球场上取得成功意味着早上四点起床，意味着投10,000个罚球，意味着完成所有的训练。因此，他知道当某人没有做到这些时。而在我们的关系中，这是事情之一，我不能说它破坏了我们的关系，但我们很长时间没有说话，因为我在追求卓越和做父亲这两方面都挑战了他。
Because we came together during the time of him going through the allegations of sexual assault in Colorado. That's why that's where we built the black mamba from was in that moment. Because he felt like he was losing his edge and then he got connected to me through my mentor Harvey. He originally reached out from a friend of his in pro sport connected him to Harvey and then Harvey said, Oh, you're going through an ego death. You're not losing your edge. You're going through an ego death, Kobe. You need to talk to a guy that is now very much indexing performance towards what I call at the time identity based performance. Like I help you build the identity to go and win. And then the tool I would use would be the alter ego tool. Back then I kind of called it character crafting after we developed the relationship. And we were having these conversations to make ourselves well, maybe not to make he didn't make me to make himself feel good, but for me, I was maybe make yourself feel good about, you know, judging people who were average.
因为我们是在他处理科罗拉多州性侵指控的那段时间走到一起的。这就是为什么我们在那个时候一起打造了“黑曼巴”。因为他觉得自己正在失去优势，然后他通过我的导师哈维联系到了我。他最初是通过他在职业体育界的一个朋友联系到哈维的，然后哈维说，"哦，你正在经历自我消亡，而不是失去优势。你只是经历了一次自我消亡，科比。你需要和一个现在非常注重表现的人交谈，这个人当时强调的是基于身份认同的表现。"我帮助你构建一种身份来赢得胜利。那时我使用的工具是“替代自我”工具。那时候，我把它称为“角色塑造”。我们建立了关系后，开始进行这些对话，以让自己感觉良好。也许他不是为了让我感觉良好，而是为了让自己感觉好一点，但对我来说，也许是为了让自己在批评那些普通人时感觉良好。
And I said, Oh, isn't that funny? Because I don't see you putting in the same energy towards your family. Kobe took that and ran with it then. That was that was the good part of the short relationship that we did have was. And I always I always have this with clients is when you're working with really big egos or super egos that happen in the legendary status of athletes. I need to come in and break the exterior of that a lot of times. And so I can't cow tow to them, which is what often happens with the people that are around them. Totally. I say all that because coming back to it, I've had to battle that judgment of average when it comes to professional or career lens maybe. But then I see these people crushing it as being a dad or a mom or in their personal hobbies and things like that. And maybe that's where I was under indexing as well. So that's exactly where I was going to take this is like often people at the top of their game, whatever field that is. They over index on a particular they over index on one aspect of life and life is an integration of multiple different parts from health to relationships to family to, you know, food that you put in your body to all these things. And they over index on work or some sort of visible success that they're getting affirmation for. And when they do that, all these other parts of their life suffer.
我说：“哦，这不是很有趣吗？因为我没看到你在家庭上付出同样的精力。”然后科比听到了并有所行动。这就是我们短暂关系中的好部分。我和客户之间常常有这样的互动：当你和那些拥有极大自尊或超级自尊的传奇运动员合作时，我需要打破他们的外在表现。因此，我不能对他们卑躬屈膝，而这正是他们周围的人通常会做的。完全正确。我说这些是因为在职业或事业方面，我不得不与平庸的判断作斗争。但是，我看到有些人在做父母、个人爱好等方面表现得非常出色，可能这也是我有所欠缺的地方。顶尖人物往往在某一方面过度投入，然而生活是各个部分的综合，从健康到人际关系再到家庭，甚至包括你吃的食物等等。他们可能会在工作或其他某种能够获得认可的领域过度投入，结果导致生活的其他方面遭受损害。
Did you ever get a chance to meet and talk to Clayton Christensen? No. Okay. So he was another mentor of mine. Clayton has a great story that he tells regarding being in the NBA program at Harvard when he was in the 1970s. I don't know if you've heard this before. No. So he is a part of this Mormon group that was there. And what they would do is they'd bring in former Harvard alumni that had had success and come in and just speak to their group. And he talks about in a very eloquent video online, a gentleman who came in and he would talk about their careers. And he said, you know, a lot of you are going to come back a decade from now and you're going to have a lot of very successful careers. It's just the nature of who comes out of this program, but you're going to find that some of your classmates have got children that are being raised by other men or other women. And now I don't think any of them planned that. They didn't leave Harvard and say, I want my kids to be raised by someone else when I do have kids, but they didn't also work on their family life. And the reason is because in business, it's so easy for us to work another hour, work on another project in your day or at night because the feedback loops are so quick. I put in work now, I'm going to see your result tomorrow or next week or something like that.
你有没有机会见过并和克莱顿·克里斯滕森交谈呢？没有。好的，他是我的另一位导师。克莱顿有一个很棒的故事，他讲述了自己在1970年代哈佛大学读MBA的经历。我不知道你是否听过这个故事。没有。好，他是那里的一个摩门教团体的一员。他们会请一些曾在哈佛取得成功的校友来与他们的团体交流。克莱顿在网络上的一个视频中非常优雅地提到，一个前来演讲的绅士会谈论他们的职业生涯。他说，你们中的许多人十年后会有非常成功的职业，这是从这个项目走出来的人自然的结果。但你们会发现，一些同学的孩子由其他男人或女人抚养长大。我认为他们当初都没有计划这样做，他们并没有离开哈佛时想着以后要让自己的孩子由别人养育。但他们同样没有在家庭生活上投入精力。
原因是，在商业领域，我们很容易多工作一个小时，或者在白天或晚上再做一个项目，因为反馈循环非常快。我现在投入工作，明天或下周就能看到结果，类似这样的情况。
But when you're parenting, the feedback loop is 18 years plus. And did you produce like a really great, well-rounded, competent adult that is self-driven and all these things? And that was Mitt Romney who came in and shared that with Clayton's group. And that always stuck with me. And I heard Clayton share that speech kind of long before it went kind of viral online. And so to your point or to the point we're talking about is the feedback loops for a lot of high achievers are so much quicker in your domain of career. And they're a lot longer in other areas like health, even, or family or your marriage and relationship. It's typically not just all of a sudden you were an asshole on Thursday and the husband or the wife leaves you. It's like it was a long time coming. I think that's really interesting, right? And thinking about how we gravitate towards, again, quick, right? Quick feedback loops, positive reinforcement on one particular aspect of our life to the neglect of another aspect, which might have a longer feedback loop. And we take those other things kind of for granted and that can come back to bet us.
但是在养育孩子方面，反馈周期长达18年以上。你是否养育出了一个非常优秀、全面、有能力、自我驱动的成年人？这是米特·罗姆尼在克莱顿的团队中分享过的话，这句话一直萦绕在我心头。我听到克莱顿分享这段话是在它在网上走红之前的很久。所以，我们现在讨论的是，高成就者在职场中获得反馈的周期往往要快得多。而在健康、家庭、婚姻和人际关系等其他领域，反馈周期通常会长得多。这通常不是说你在周四突然变成了一个混蛋，所以你的配偶立马离开你，而是长期积累导致的结果。我认为这真的很有趣，我们往往倾向于追求那些有快速反馈和正面强化的生活方面，而忽略了反馈周期较长的方面，这些忽略可能最终会对我们造成不利影响。
I was just going to say, this is where luck comes in. I think I got very lucky growing up on such a big farm. Because if you think about farm life, farm life is a rare place where you work and you live in a place that has no boundaries. That's just the way of life for you. I knew that I was going to be probably in some sort of knowledge work when I was, you know, going through my 20s. And I just thought about how could I make a farm for my kids to feel a part of in New York City for a short time while I was moving between offices. I had my office at home and it was in the corner of our master bedroom and like any good New Yorker. You're making your space to a lot of duty for you. I'll be doing like videos like this. I was doing trainings and stuff. I had this pop up black photography canvas that would go up behind me. And my challenge was that I had two little girls at the time. You know, now they're 10 and nine. But back then they were like three and two. And you know, they just wanted to be in there with dad.
我正要说，这时候运气很重要。我认为我很幸运，能在这么大的农场里成长。因为农场生活是一种少见的生活方式，你在工作和生活中几乎没有边界，对你来说这就是生活的常态。在我二十多岁的时候，我就知道自己可能会从事某种知识型工作。我曾思考如何在搬运办公室时，能在纽约市为我的孩子们创造一个类似农场的环境，让他们有归属感。我在家里有一个办公室，位于主卧室的一角，就像任何一个优秀的纽约客一样，你需要多功能地利用你的空间。我会做类似这样的在线视频，我当时还在做培训等工作。我有一个可以弹出的黑色摄影布景，总是在我身后支起来。困难在于当时我有两个小女儿，她们现在分别是10岁和9岁，但那时她们只有三岁和两岁。她们总是想和爸爸在一起。
I got them to come in and help me set up my day. So one of them got to open up my laptop that day. And, you know, I punch in the passcode to get in. The other one was able to grab the at the time the blue snowball mic or whatever and bring it to the top from the desk. And the other one got my like journal out and put it on the desk too. So they were helping me set things up. And I thought it was like, that's the equivalent of me loading the bales on the back of the truck. Right. Like they were and once they felt like they had contributed, then they then they would leave and they wouldn't they wouldn't quote bug me. Yeah. And so I think of that idea of like, how can we best integrate these different ambitions that we have so that they really overlap and do double triple duty for ourselves. I like that a lot. I like the integration thing. I mean, I'm a big advocate of that. And, you know, work in life blend for me. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.
我请他们过来帮我安排一天的工作。于是，其中一个帮我打开笔记本电脑，我输入密码登入。另一个负责把当时的蓝色雪球麦克风或其他设备从桌子上拿起放好。还有一个帮我把日记本拿出来放在桌上。他们都在帮我做准备工作。我觉得这就像是我把草捆装到卡车后面一样。当他们觉得自己做出了贡献后，就会离开，不再“打扰”我。
所以，我在想如何更好地融入我们不同的目标，使它们能够真正交叉重叠，多重效益。我非常喜欢这个想法。我是融合理念的忠实支持者，对我来说，工作和生活的结合很好，真的非常有趣。
I think that's a good sort of segue into the relationship between identity and performance. Yeah. This comes into a bit of a language trap that we have in our world, Shane, where we refer to ourselves in. I, me, you, we think of some people, if you have a maybe a little bit of an unsophisticated understanding of identity, which is not a judgment. It's just, it's the nature of things. We think of that there's one me. And then in our world nowadays, Shane, now there's an authentic self. There's the authentic version of you. And I love to break that frame with people because. I can't look under the microscope and find one you. There is no one you because we operate in the world in many roles that we have. Even our behaviors and our attitudes, they shift and they change based on situation. So that could be the, I call it the field of play that you're going into or the, the, the role that you're taking into something. Who's in that environment with you? How you operate with your family or your parents.
我觉得这是一个很好的切入点来讨论身份与表现之间的关系。是的，这涉及到我们世界中一种语言陷阱，Shane，我们通常会用“我”、"你"来描述自己。如果你对身份的理解比较简单，这并不是一个评判，只是事情的本质。人们通常认为只有一个“我”。而在现代社会中，Shane，现在还出现了一个“真实自我”的概念，所谓的你最真实的版本。
我喜欢破解这个框架，因为我不能在显微镜下找到一个单一的你。因为事实上，没有一个固定的你。我们在世界上扮演着许多不同的角色。即使是我们的行为和态度，也会根据情况的不同而变化。所以这可以说是，你所进入的“游戏场地”或者是你正在扮演的角色。你周围的环境是谁，你如何与家人或父母相处等因素都会影响你的表现。
I mean, hey, I'm never going to not be the forgetful kid because I left my wallet on an airplane once coming from Disneyland when I was 10 years old. And my mom to this day thinks that I forget about everything. Right. So whatever. That's the role I get to play with her and, or the character. But we have many roles that we play. And I like to give people this frame of understanding that the moment you become a lot more intentional about the who that you're bringing onto a field of play that you're designing. Not one that's just been designed by someone or something else because our influences for how we perceive ourselves were very much created before we ever had any volition or choice in the process. Because our concept of me and myself and stuff is a lot of times carried out and formed before the age of eight. Now a child has no concept of me. They don't even, they don't think of themselves as having an identity until around seven and a half when the frontal lobe starts to kick in and we start to develop reasoning and judgment skills.
意思是，我是个健忘的孩子，因为我10岁时从迪士尼乐园回来时，把钱包落在了飞机上。到现在我妈妈都觉得我什么事都忘掉。所以我在她面前总是扮演那个角色或形象。但我们在生活中可能扮演很多不同的角色。我想让大家明白的是，当你更有意图地决定自己在生活的舞台上表现出怎样的“我”时，不要只是按照别人或环境已经设计好的剧本去生活，因为我们对自我的认知很大程度上是在我们还没有选择权或意识之前就形成了。我们的自我概念通常在八岁前就已经大致定型。因为在那之前，孩子并没有明确的自我概念，他们甚至不认为自己有独立的身份，直到大约七岁半时前额叶才开始起作用，我们才开始发展出推理和判断能力。
So let's say all this because I like to help design identities for people that are specifically designed to help them win on a field of play that's very important to them. The CEO who's really struggling with managing and leading people. Maybe they carry with them a great identity of, oh, I'm a great doer. I'm great at executing. And now though, based on the stage of what their business would be at, they need to take on a new identity. And people will argue against it. They say, well, I'm not an operator or I'm not a leader of people. It's like, that's just not my strength. My natural strengths are this.
所以我说这些是因为我喜欢帮助人们设计特殊身份，这些身份是为了在他们认为非常重要的领域中取得胜利而设计的。比如，一个在管理和领导方面非常挣扎的CEO。也许他们一直认为自己是个执行力很强的人，总是能把事情做好。但现在，根据他们业务发展的阶段，他们需要接受一个新的身份。而人们往往会反对这种改变，他们会说：“我不是一个操作者，也不是一个领导者，这不是我的强项，我的天赋在其他方面。”
Well, like I love to poke holes in personality assessments because most people who take personality assessments like Myers-Briggs. Good example. I mean, I don't know how many more articles need to be written about how it doesn't carry very much efficacy in the world. But the reason they also don't carry much efficacy is because when you're answering these questions, you're like, hmm, you know, I'm a really good planner when I'm at work. But when I'm at home, I'm not that good of a planner. So you start automatically, you start separating your life. And then all of a sudden you just put a three down. But if you were to sit there and say, I'm going to take this assessment on the identity that I have as a business person or a career person or whatever, you're going to actually be able to answer those questions a lot faster because you're not getting confused by all of the different selves that you've got with you.
好吧，我喜欢对人格评估刨根问底，因为大多数人都会参加像迈尔斯-布里格斯（Myers-Briggs）这样的评估。这是个很好的例子。我不知道还需要写多少篇文章来说明这种评估在现实中并没有多大效力。其没有效力的另一个原因是，当你在回答这些问题时，你会想，比如说，我在工作中是个很好的计划者，但在家里，我不是那么擅长计划。所以你会自动地将生活分开，然后突然你就随便填了个“三”。但是，如果你以职业身份或商务人士的身份来参加这个评估，你就会更快地回答这些问题，因为你不会被自己不同的"自我"搞得混淆。
And so for me, one of the things that I index towards highly with helping people navigate their lives or their performance is I look, I try to build an identity for people, a really strong identity that you're really clear on that you've decided. And you get multiple identities. Well, I have the identity because I have the role of being a dad at a long career in my business and coaching long before I became a dad. And so that built up a certain level of skill sets and worldviews and ways of operating in my day, which are really, it's like a bicep curl. Every day I'm waking up and I'm a challenger personality type in the way that I coach people, okay, because it works for the clientele that I have.
对我来说，在帮助人们导航他们的生活或提升表现时，我会高度关注这一点：我尝试为人们建立一个非常明确且强大的身份，是你自己决定的身份。而且你可以有多个身份。比如，我有父亲的身份，在成为父亲之前，我在商业领域和教练工作上有着很长的职业生涯。这些经历积累了某种技能和世界观，以及处理日常事务的方法，这就像是在锻炼二头肌一样。我每天醒来，作为教练，我是一个挑战者类型的个性，因为这对我的客户群体非常有效。
Now, it'd be very easy for me eight to 10 hours a day for decades to believe that that's who I am. I'm just a challenger guy. That's just who I am. Like, if you don't like it, too bad. But instead, when I think of like, well, who and who do I want to show up for my kids? What are the qualities that I want? Well, I want to be patient, funny, and I want to be silly for them at this age and very loving and caring. And this is kind of me going into the alter ego side of things and me indexing towards mentors and apprentice. Like, well, who already embodies that? And my dad had some of those qualities. So, automatically, okay, well, and I don't need to trick myself into loving my dad.
现在，对于我来说，如果几十年里每天工作八到十个小时，很容易让自己相信那就是我的全部。我只是个喜欢挑战的人，仅此而已。如果你不喜欢，那就算了。但是，当我想到我要怎样陪伴我的孩子时，我会问自己，希望自己拥有哪些品质？我希望自己能有耐心、幽默感，还希望在他们这个年龄段能和他们一起搞笑、关爱他们。这其实是我在进入一种替代自我的状态，向导师和学徒学习这些品质的过程。那么，谁已经具备这些品质呢？我父亲就拥有其中一些品质。所以，我会自动想到：好吧，我不需要欺骗自己去爱我的父亲。
But the other one very explicitly was Mr. Rogers. Because I can't think of anyone that sits on the other end of the spectrum of being a challenger personality type, then Mr. Rogers. So, that becomes my source of inspiration for that role and identity that I have. And then even in business, and this is why I think entrepreneurship, even more so than careers inside of companies, is just so challenging. And it's because there are so many roles that you play.
但另一个给我很大启发的人是罗杰斯先生。因为我想不出还有谁在性格类型上与挑战者完全相反，罗杰斯先生就是这样的一个人。所以，他成为了我在那种角色和身份上的灵感来源。即使在商业领域也是如此，这也是为什么我认为创业比在公司内部的职业更具挑战性的原因。因为你在创业中要扮演很多不同的角色。
There's the marketer role. There's the PR guy. You got to sell Farnham Street. You got to get some backlinks when you're starting out. Like, you got to get some people. Or whatever your process was to grow the demand of Farnham Street. And even inside of my own business, I think of myself having three very distinct roles that I operate. And then, oh, what? How's that guy showing up over there? To win on that particular domain. And what that does for me, because I operate through these worlds of identities, is it helps me then, Shane, bring to the surface, more traits, more attributes, more qualities that could have laid dormant.
有市场推广的角色。还有公关的人。你得宣传Farnham Street。刚起步时需要获取一些反向链接。你得找到一些人。或者你采取了一些其他的方法来增长Farnham Street的需求。在我自己的生意中，我认为自己扮演了三个非常不同的角色。然后，我会想：那个人是怎么在那方面取得成功的呢？这对我的帮助是，因为我在这些不同的身份世界中运作，它帮助我，Shane，挖掘出更多原本可能潜藏的特质、属性和品质。
And I think about Carl Jung in his work on archetypes. Because he formulated this idea of the 12 different archetypes. There's like the ruler archetype. And there's the warrior archetype. And there's the jester archetype. And there's the every man or every woman archetype. And there's all these different archetypes. And most of us will get trapped inside of living through one to three main archetypes, in a lot of the ways that we operate.
我想到了卡尔·荣格（Carl Jung）在他关于原型的研究中提出的观点。他提出了12种不同的原型，比如统治者原型、战士原型、小丑原型，还有平凡人原型等等。这些原型种类繁多。而我们大多数人在生活中，很多时候会被限制在一到三种主要的原型中来行事。
And his sort of theory was you become a really whole human being when you can actually bring to life all of the different attributes of these archetypes. And so that's how I think about developing my different identities. I'm trying to be as whole as I possibly can. And I think the more whole I can be as a human being, that's going to make me more valuable. That's going to make me more useful to other people.
他的理论是，当你能将这些原型的不同属性都融入到生活中时，你就真正成为一个完整的人。所以，我也这样看待发展我的不同身份。我在尽可能让自己变得更加完整。我认为，作为一个完整的人，我就会更加有价值，也会对别人更有用。
It's going to also make me more useful to myself, so that I don't just fall into the same trap of thinking of only solving things a certain way. Because there can be a more caring way that I go about it. There can be a more challenging way that I go about it. There can be a more fun, funny way of going about it, like the jester would. Does the alter ego act like a shield towards our inner ego against criticism, against everything else? And it protects us.
这也会让我对自己更有用，不会总是陷入只用一种方式解决问题的陷阱。其实，有时候我们可以用更关怀的方式去解决问题，也可以用更有挑战性的方式，或者像小丑一样，用更有趣、更滑稽的方式去面对问题。改变形象是否像一面盾牌一样，保护我们内心的自我免受批评和其他外界的干扰？它确实在保护我们。
And it also allows us to put, to compartmentalize almost, to leave the fit. To leave the family at home, to leave the problems at home, to leave. I didn't sleep well at home and just get in this box to use Kobe's words or sort of Joseph Campbell. And the only thing that matters in that moment is this personality I've adopted. Because that personality is unlocking a level of performance that I can't get to without doing that.
这也让我们能把问题分割开来，几乎像是给它们隔离。把家庭留在家里，把问题留在家里，哪怕是昨晚没睡好也留在家里，然后进入一个像科比或者约瑟夫·坎贝尔所说的“盒子”中。在这个瞬间，唯一重要的就是我所采用的这个人格。因为这个人格解锁了一种我无法通过其他方式达到的表现水平。
Another way of looking at it is it's the disassociation from your current ego state that you have. The current narrative that you tell yourself about who I am and what I'm capable of. That disassociation and then being able to act through a new idea inspired by someone or something else allows us to more freely tap into the traits and abilities and qualities that we have within us that we just don't access because we have this hard, crusty exterior of like, no, this is who I am. This is my explanation of like, why I'm this way?
另一种看待这个问题的方法是，它是指你与当前自我状态的脱离。也就是你告诉自己"我是谁，我能做什么"的这个当前叙事。通过这种脱离，并能够通过他人或其他事物所启发的新想法进行行动，我们可以更自由地发掘我们内在拥有但不常访问的特质、能力和品质。因为我们往往有一个坚硬的外壳，固执地认为"这就是我"，并用这种方式来解释我们为什么是现在这样的自己。
Because as I have proven to my own self through the work of thousands of tremendous people, we are so malleable. Like we are, I mean, I don't know how many more times we need to hear about gray matter, right? And, you know, the neuroplasticity of us, well, the plasticity of our identity is just as shapeable. And so the moment we sort of collapse ourselves into, oh, no, this guy or this girl meant to go and do this role, it becomes so much easier to shape that self.
因为正如我通过成千上万人的努力向自己证明的那样，我们是非常可塑的。就像我们的灰质一样，我们的神经可塑性已经被提到过很多次了，对吧？我们的身份可塑性也是如此。 所以，当我们把自己定型为 "哦，不，这个人就是要去做这个角色" 时，塑造那个自我就变得更加容易。
And the sort of rhetorical question I get to be when I'm standing on stage and doing speeches is, how many of you have ever been asked to create a vision statement or a mission statement for your life, right? And I'm like, I did. Because I consumed a lot of self help stuff when I was very young and I still consume because there's a lot of great smart people out there. But man, a mission statement for my whole life, that just, I could never, and then I felt like I was an idiot.
当我站在台上演讲时，我常会问一个看似不需要回答的问题，那就是：你们中有多少人曾被要求为自己的人生制定一个愿景声明或者使命声明，对吧？而我会说，我有过这种经历。因为我很年轻的时候就开始接触很多自我提升的内容，现在也依然在学习，因为有很多非常聪明的人分享了宝贵的知识。但是，要为我的一生制定一个使命声明，我真的做不到，这让我觉得自己很笨。
Like, man, everyone else is just so much better than me. And so here's a great example of, you know, Todd just doesn't get it. Like, that's very much like an honest take of my assessment of myself. But the moment I say to you, Shane, Shane, what is your mission as a father? If I let you sit with it and say like, I got you four hours, what's your mission as a dad? You'd be able to come back with a response that's going to be pretty good. And you're going to iterate on it because no statement should ever be just baked in time forever.
像，伙计，其他人都比我强太多了。比如说，这里就有一个很好的例子，实际上，托德就是一点都不懂。这基本上就是我对自己的真实看法。但是，当我问你，Shane，作为一个父亲你的使命是什么？如果我给你四个小时来思考这个问题，你肯定会给出一个相当不错的答案。而且你会不断改进这个答案，因为没有一个声明应该被永远固定不变。
And that goes to the power of isolating our identity. If I say like, hey, what's your, what Todd, what's your mission as a coach? Todd, what's your mission as a CEO? What's your mission? And then at the end, when I maybe write out these eight different missions, like what's your mission, Todd, as a husband of Valerie, my wife? I feel like I can answer that a lot easier and more simply. Just pragmatically, Shane, it's so useful to think of yourself through the many lenses of many different identities. I almost think of it like the map and the territory, right? Like the territory is huge and you're creating a map and that map is a distillation of the territory, but it allows you to see things that you can't see in the territory because it's removing a lot of detail in most cases and just focusing on the essence of what's needed.
这体现了隔离我们身份的力量。如果我问道，嘿，托德，你作为一个教练的使命是什么？托德，你作为一个首席执行官的使命是什么？你的使命是什么？然后当我可能写下这八个不同的使命时，比如说，托德，你作为瓦莱丽（我的妻子）的丈夫的角色使命是什么？我感觉我可以更容易、更简单地回答这个问题。实际上，Shane，通过多个不同身份的视角来看自己是非常有用的。我几乎把它看作地图与领土的关系，对吧？领土是巨大的，而你正在创建一张地图，并且这张地图是对领土的浓缩，但它让你能够看到在领土上看不到的东西，因为它在大多数情况下去除了很多细节，只关注需要的本质。
So when you're saying like, what's your identity as a father and what's your mission as a father, it's like, I don't have to think about work. I don't have to think about relationships with, you know, my partner. I don't have to think about anything at all except for this one aspect. So I've narrowed the playing field, if you will, into like a five by five quadrant. Now it's a lot easier to see what's in that quadrant because I can, I'm not looking at integrating all of these different things. Even just practically, Shane, look at how you did it so brilliantly with the naming of the site, Farnham Street, right?
所以，当你在谈论作为父亲的身份和使命时，就好像我不需要考虑工作，也不需要考虑与伴侣的关系。我不需要考虑其他任何事情，只需要关注这一个方面。所以，我把这个“战场”缩小到了一个五乘五的范围。这样，看到这个范围内的东西就容易多了，因为我不必把各种不同的事情整合在一起。实际上，Shane，你看看你是怎么巧妙地为网站命名的，比如“Farnham Street”，对吧？
Now it's isolating the map of the territory down to a, hey, this is what we think that this area means. Like they think in a different way and so this is where we're going to index our content towards in the very beginning is, you know, great decision making, great thinking skills, great frameworks, great mental models. Talk about luck. Like that whole thing was just created as me sharing what I was learning without the intent of anybody ever reading it. And it was me reflecting on the experiences I was having, if you will.
现在，我们已经将这片区域的地图进行细化，并指出“嘿，这就是我们认为这个区域的含义。” 他们的思维方式不同，所以我们在一开始就会将内容定位在出色的决策、优秀的思维技能、优良的框架和思维模型上。说到运气，这一切都是我在分享自己所学的东西时逐渐形成的，当时没有任何人会看见我写的内容的打算。这可以说是我对自己经历的反思。
But why did you do it publicly though? Well, because I'm sorry, I'm not interrupting you again, but you don't, you don't have the sort of public avatar of someone who needs to be followed. Like there's many people that are like, I can tell by the way that they show up on social media that they need to feed off of the energy of other people to validate their existence in life. You don't because you have far more sort of stoic way about you. So it's just fascinating to me that you chose to write in public. Well, this is super interesting in two ways.
One, I hate attention. So I actually like, it's a struggle for me in a lot of ways to go on social media and, you know, write a book and put it out there and do all of these things because it's like, oh, God, it just means more attention. And then so the way that it started, it wasn't actually FS dot blog, which it is now.
但你为什么要公开这么做呢？嗯，因为，抱歉，我不是打断你，但你没有那种需要被追随的公众形象。有很多人，我能从他们在社交媒体上的表现看出，他们需要通过别人的关注来证明自己的存在。而你不是这样，因为你更为冷静、沉稳。所以，你选择公开写作这一点让我觉得很有趣。这在两方面都非常有意思。第一，我讨厌引起注意。所以，对我来说，去社交媒体、写书、发布这些东西其实很困难，因为这意味着会有更多的关注。事情的起因，其实并不是现在的FS博客。
It was 68131 dash 1440 dot blah blah blah blah blah. And the reason is so 68131 is the zip code for Berkshire Hathaway, which is Farnham Street. So the Berkshire Hathaway is on Farnham Street headquarters. 1440 was the unit number. And my theory, my thinking behind this, I worked for an intelligence agency at the time. I was not allowed to have a website. I was not allowed to have a public profile. I wasn't even allowed to do what I was doing. I'm sure they're listening to this now. You know, they knew about it. But so it was me reflect and I didn't want to put a password on it because it was just super annoying to like have to log in and like do all these extra things. If I wanted to just read a quick post on my phone or while I was traveling or doing something. And so if I was writing that's different, I could write and then just upload.
这段话的大意是：它是68131-1440点（之后是一些模糊的描述）。原因是68131是伯克希尔哈撒韦公司的邮政编码，地址是法纳姆街。所以伯克希尔哈撒韦总部在法纳姆街上。1440是单元号。我的理论和想法是，我当时在一家情报机构工作，不允许有自己的网站，也不允许有公开的个人资料。我甚至不允许做我正在做的事情。我敢肯定他们现在也在听这个，他们知道这件事。但这是我自己的反思，我不想给它设置密码，因为要登录和做所有这些额外的步骤非常烦人。如果我只是想在手机上快速阅读一篇帖子，或者在旅行或做其他事情的时候，这些步骤都显得多余。当我在写作时情况就不同了，我可以写完再上传。
And so it was really just meant for me to share. And it was only over time, like share with myself. And it was back to the the grout that we talked about earlier. It was my way of developing the grout between these ideas and connecting them together. And they're not my ideas. They're they're the best of what I've learned from other people. And so it was my grout to connect those. And my way of connecting these ideas was to reflect on them and put them in my own words and connect them in some ways that were great and some ways that were really terrible. And the website somehow caught on and then then it became Farnum Street. Right. So talk about sort of like accidental success in a way.
因此，这真正只是为了让我自己分享。而且随着时间的推移，这种分享主要是和我自己分享。回到我们之前谈到的“填缝”，这是我用来在这些想法之间建立联系的方法。这些想法并不是我的，它们是我从其他人那里学到的最好的东西。所以，这就是我用来连接这些想法的填缝。我连接这些想法的方法是反思它们，用我自己的语言表达，并以某些很棒的方式和某些不那么好的方式来连接它们。结果，这个网站不知怎的受到了关注，然后就成了Farnum Street。所以，这在某种程度上可以说是一次意外的成功。
But where did it break out? It was, I think around 2010, it started to get read a lot. And then I shortened the URL, but not it was like fernumstreetblog.com. And then it was really 2015 ish 2016 ish where it sort of became what we think of it as today. Yeah. And then in 2019, I'm guessing, if I remember correctly, the New York Times sort of profile on me and that profile really just leapfrogged everything. So we went from having an audience on Wall Street to an audience of people who care about going from 90 to 90.1. Yeah. And that includes professional sports. It includes CEOs. It includes people who manage money for a living. And what are all those people having common? Well, a small degree of skill improvement can lead to a massive distortion in outcomes.
但是，它是从哪里开始流行的呢？我想是在2010年左右，它开始被大量阅读。然后我缩短了网址，但原来是像fernumstreetblog.com这样的东西。然后大概在2015年或2016年的时候，它逐渐形成了我们今天所看到的样子。是的。然后在2019年，如果我记得没错的话，《纽约时报》对我做了一个专访，这个专访真的让一切都迅速发展起来。所以我们从华尔街的受众扩展到了关心"从90提高到90.1"的人群。是的，这其中包括职业运动员，首席执行官，以及以管理资金为生的人。那这些人有什么共同点呢？他们都知道，哪怕是微小的技能提升都可以导致结果的巨大变化。
But like in that, when I say breaking out, like, was it being passed around through email saying like, Hey, you got to read this? And that was the need because you were one of the first people to sort of more ubiquitously talk about the idea of mental models. Because I'll be, I'll be frank, I was very jealous of you because I was like, Oh, my goodness, like this is what I, this is what I basically give people is a better mental model framework to view themselves with or view their performance with. So I've been doing this. So like I, I loved your stuff. And exactly 2015 was when I learned about Farnham Street. So I was kind of sorry.
但是打个比方，当我说“爆红”的时候，我指的是这种内容是否通过电邮被广泛传播，比如有人说：“嘿，你必须看看这个！”这就是需求所在，因为你是最早广泛谈论“心智模型”这个概念的人之一。坦白说，我当时非常嫉妒你，因为我觉得：“哦，天哪，这正是我提供给人们的东西，一种让他们看待自己或其表现的更好的心智模型框架。”所以我一直在做这个。说实话，我非常喜欢你的内容，而确切地说，我是在2015年知道Farnham Street的。所以，我有点抱歉。
I was a part of that Lager group, I guess, that maybe found you. But I'm always fascinated with that first breakthrough area because it's not really investigated very often. And so I'm sure probably it would have been emailed back then. Yeah, it was anonymous to like it was meant, it wasn't meant for people to discover me. I was still working at the intelligence agency and they, you know, they don't like public profiles and stuff like that. But also at that point, there was no risk for me, right? Like it was anonymous.
我当时是那个Lager小组的一员，可能是我们发现在了你。但我一直对那个首次突破的领域充满兴趣，因为那部分通常没有被深入研究。所以我想那时候可能是通过电子邮件联系的。是的，我当时是匿名的，不是让别人发现我的。我当时还在情报机构工作，他们不喜欢公共曝光什么的。不过在那时候，这对我来说没有风险，因为我是匿名的。
I could look like an idiot. I often think the fear of looking like an idiot keeps us from doing things that we, we know are probably going to lead to growth or success or not to use a word success performance. You know, they're going to make us better and we don't want to do them because we fear looking like an idiot. And the older we get, the more attachment we have to our identity and the more attachment we have to our identity, the less likely we are to take risks. But it's the taking of risks that also got us to where we are today, which, so you have this twofold thing. And I was actually talking with another entrepreneur about this a few weeks ago where they're scared to take a risk and they're scared to take a risk because they've been taking risks their whole life. It's worked out.
我可能看起来像个傻瓜。我经常想，我们害怕看起来像傻瓜的这种恐惧，会让我们不愿意去做那些可能会带来成长或成功的事情。其实这些事情会让我们变得更好，但我们因为害怕看起来像傻瓜而不愿意去做。而且随着我们年龄的增长，我们对自身身份的依附感也越来越强，依附感越强，我们就越不愿意冒险。然而，正是这些冒险才让我们走到了今天，实现了现在的成就。所以，这里面存在一个两难的局面。几周前，我和另一个企业家聊天时谈到了这一点，他们害怕冒险，因为他们一生都在冒险，虽然这些冒险最终带来了成功。
And now they have something to lose. And so they don't want to look like an idiot. And sometimes that that loss is monetary, but often that loss is our identity, right? Our ego are part of our soul. So we're the way that I relate to this and you can correct me if this totally doesn't make sense to you is like, we're animals. Like we're just at our core. We are animals. And so animals have a tendency to be territorial.
现在他们有了可以失去的东西。所以他们不想看起来像个傻瓜。有时候这种损失是金钱上的，但很多时候这种损失是我们的身份，对吧？我们的自尊，我们灵魂的一部分。所以我这样理解这一点，如果这完全不符合你的观点，请纠正我：我们都是动物。在我们的本质上，我们就是动物。而动物有一种领地意识。
But with humans, like I'm not walking around my neighborhood, pissing on fire hydrants to mark my territory. My territory is my identity. It's my ego. It's my sense of self. So if you tread on that territory, now I feel threatened. Yeah. And so then we unconsciously do things that prevent us that get in our way, right? So we get in our own way in a way of that because we don't want to, you know, if somebody slights us in a meeting, what do we do? We react and we react without thinking.
但对于人类来说，我不会在街区里随处小便来标记我的领地。我的领地是我的身份，是我的自我，是我的自我认知。所以如果你侵犯了我的这个领地，我就会感到受到威胁。对，然后我们无意识地做一些事情来保护自己，这些行为反而阻碍了我们前进的道路。因为我们不想（接受自己受到伤害），比如在会议中有人轻视我们时，我们会怎么做？我们会下意识地做出反应，而不是经过思考后的反应。
Yeah. And why do we do that? Because we're animals and animals have territory. And if an animal comes on their territory, they react. They don't think that they don't have the conscious processing power of that. We do. You had said like the types of people who come to you, like I talk about, there's those people who are going to come into work with me or buy our stuff, whatever. I find our people that are mature enough to know that they're the ones getting in their own way. I like to use identity with people to help them perform.
是的。那我们为什么会这样做呢？因为我们是动物，动物都有自己的领地。如果有其他动物进入它们的领地，它们就会做出反应。它们不会思考，因为它们没有像我们这样强大的意识处理能力。你之前提到那些会来找你合作或者购买我们产品的人。我发现找我们的人通常都比较成熟，他们知道问题出在自己身上。我喜欢用身份认同来帮助人们提升表现。
But I also want to be very cautious with people that they don't fall into a fixed idea of who they are with their identity because that gets to the point of losing things. It's going back to the person who's an entrepreneur. Listen, there have been phenomenal entrepreneurs that have had things taken away from them. They've lost their businesses. And if you've lost your business, you've lost your identity. No, you're not an entrepreneur. You're entrepreneurial. So if I lost everything, lost my businesses for whatever reason, I didn't lose my entrepreneurial nature. And I can come back to maybe before I go and if I'm an entrepreneur, well, then that means I'll go back out and start another business right away.
但我也想非常谨慎地提醒大家，不要让自己被固定的身份认同限制住，因为这样最终可能会失去很多东西。就像一个创业者。你看，有些极其成功的创业者，他们的东西被夺走了，他们失去了自己的企业。如果你失去了企业，你就失去了身份吗？不，你不是一个创业者，而是具有创业精神的人。所以即使我失去了一切，失去了我的企业，无论是什么原因，我也不会失去我的创业本性。我可以重新开始，也许在我走之前，如果我是一个创业者，那么这意味着我会立刻出去再创办一家新企业。
And then you get trapped inside of something that you didn't actually want, but you went and did it because your identity says that I'm supposed to have that. So instead, I could ping you and say, Hey, Shane, everything just collapsed around me. I don't know what I'm going to do next. But if you've got any things going on in your world, I'd be, I'd love to come and lend my hand to those things in that. And you might go, Oh, shit, shooting star. I'll grab some of that, you know, while I can. I would be fine with doing that.
然后你会陷入一个你其实不想要的困境里，但你去做了，因为你的身份告诉你应该拥有那些。所以，相反，我可以联系你，比如说：“嘿，Shane，我周围的一切都崩溃了，我不知道接下来该怎么办。如果你那边有任何事情，我很乐意来帮忙。”而你可能会说：“哦，天哪，机会来了！趁现在我要抓住它。”我很愿意这么做。
I didn't find it going and plugging myself into the world of someone else because I'm still applying my entrepreneurial traits and abilities over there. I want to try to create rules in my life so that those ideas of losing things don't exist with the same weight on me as they would someone else. And so one of the things I discovered in super over indexing early on on identity is like, Oh, crap. I'm trapping people in some ways because these identities are like causing them in some ways to stay too long in their sport.
我不想把自己融入到别人的世界里，因为我仍然在运用我的创业特质和能力。我想在生活中制定一些规则，这样就不会像其他人那样对失去东西感到那么沉重。我发现，过分强调身份认同会陷入一种困境，因为这些身份在某种程度上使人们在他们的运动领域停留得太久。
Because I'm a hockey player. That's my tire. I'm a golfer. And that they do have other interests. And then they sort of retire too late or something like that. So I want to build up new. That's a huge loss. Right. So, so again, going back to what you were just saying, if you're a hockey player and you retire, if you're CEO and you retire and you have your whole identity wrapped up and being a CEO or being a hockey player, you literally have nothing. And that creates it like a crisis, I would imagine inside people. Big time.
因为我是个冰球运动员。那是我的轮胎。我也是个高尔夫球手。他们确实还有其他兴趣爱好。但是有些人过晚退役或者类似情况。所以我想要重新开始。这是个巨大的损失。对吧。再回到你刚才提到的，如果你是一个冰球运动员，你退役了，如果你是一个首席执行官，你退役了，而你的全部身份都与身为首席执行官或冰球运动员紧密联系在一起，那么你几乎什么都没有。这会在内心引发一场我想象中的危机。非常严重。
How do you resolve that? Well, one of the trapping questions that we ask people, and this comes from spiritual traditions and it comes from self-help books. We're asked to answer the question of, you know, who are you, Shane? I'm more concerned about what are you? And when we say what am I? Oh, well, I might say you could respond in the context of it. I'm, well, I'm a, you know, dad to three little kids and, you know, I'm an owner of business or I go, what I'm thinking about is, you know, what skills do you have? What at, like, what, like, like, what are you made of? What characteristics do you bring out?
你如何解决这个问题呢？嗯，我们会问一些诱导性的问题，这些问题来源于精神传统和自助书籍。我们会让人们回答这样一个问题，比如说，你是谁，Shane？然而，我更关心的是你是什么。当我们说“我是什么”的时候，你可能会在某种语境下回答："哦，我是三个小孩子的爸爸，我是一家企业的老板"，或者其他类似的回答。但我想知道的是，你拥有什么技能，你由什么构成，你能展现出什么特质？
So to specifically answer the question of, if I have a CEO who is moving out of that and they are retiring or they did lose something or they got fired or whatever and they do have a crisis. I did I say, like, you know, those are labels that can be easily gotten in the future again. But what are the skills or what are the attributes or what are the traits or what are the qualities that you have that have not been lost? I want to bring things back into the process of the person because that feels like they can own something now. And then you can also take these traits and attributes and qualities into other domains.
所以，具体回答这个问题：如果我有一位首席执行官，他退休了，或者他失去了某样东西，又或者被解雇了，总之，经历了一场危机。我想说的是，这些职位头衔以后还是可以再获得的。但重点是，你拥有哪些技能、品质、特征和素质是没有丢失的？我希望将注意力重新放回到这个人身上，因为这样他们会觉得自己还有可以掌控的东西。而且，这些特质和品质还可以运用到其他领域。
Is that what you mean by court drivers? Not necessarily. The parts of us that drive our behavior that we don't realize are driving a lot of our behavior. They're, they're core that are sometimes unseen. So are being a Canadian. One of the things I, as someone who's lived and traveled around the world, you know, and Canadians have this moniker of being, like, aw, shucks and, you know, like, modest, I'd say. It's the thing that I, you know, I'm going to say I dislike the most, but I'm like, no, like, own it. Like, I want to see more people who are Canadian say, like, no, I want to hear someone say it. No, I'm, I am the best at this.
你说的驱动力是这样的吗？不完全是。我们行为背后的驱动力有很多是我们自己没有意识到的。这些动力是我们核心的一部分，有时是看不见的。作为一个加拿大人，我曾在世界各地生活和旅行过，加拿大人给人的印象总是谦虚、低调。我想说，我最不喜欢的就是这一点。我希望看到更多的加拿大人能够自信地说："不，我就是最棒的。"
But American friends, they will easily index because that's a very American, right? You know, greatest place in the world, vicarious country. So those things are a part of our language that ends up seeping into how we see it. That's a core driver is country where you're from, even city, region, being, uh, uh, being a farm kid. I'm from the farm. So that's a core driver. It can drive a lot of our behaviors and attitudes and, you know, paradigms, philosophies about the world.
但是美国朋友们，他们会很容易地定向，因为这非常具有美国特色，对吧？你知道的，世界上最伟大的地方，一个代表性的国家。所以这些东西成了我们语言的一部分，并最终渗透到我们对事物的看法中。这些核心驱动因素之一就是你来自的国家，甚至是城市、地区，或者是你是否来自农村。我就是个农场孩子，来自农场。所以这是一个核心驱动因素，它可以影响我们的很多行为、态度以及我们对世界的看法和想法。
Your religion is a core driver. It can shape so much of how you show up in the world, the choices that you make, your gender or your, your race. Those are core drivers. And sometimes people don't look at those things and really analyze them and say, what do I tell them? What do I tell myself? What? What it means to be a black person? Because a lot of my clients over the years, whether it's NBA or, you know, NFL or other sports are black. And so what is it a bit like, is that sometimes getting in the way of your or is it an empowerment?
你的宗教信仰是一个核心驱动力。它可以极大地影响你在世界上的表现方式以及你做出的选择。而你的性别或种族也是核心驱动力。有时候，人们并没有真正关注这些因素，也没有深入分析它们，思考自己应该如何看待它们。我应该告诉他们什么？我应该对自己说什么呢？作为一个黑人意味着什么呢？因为多年来，我的很多客户，不管是NBA选手、NFL选手还是其他体育项目的，都是黑人。那么，这种身份有时候是会妨碍你呢，还是会赋予你力量？
Because not everything is negative. Because then I'll say like, is it actually true? Is that true that all Jewish people can and can't do this or all people from farms in, you know, can and can't do this? One of the keys to performance is sort of focusing. What's a good way to, I wouldn't say hacker focus, but get us into focus. I'd say one of the things that is very different from an elite level client versus someone who could be even great, whether it's in their sport or they can, they can be great at what they do as well. There's a very different level of meaning and intention that this person over here has behind what this activity means to them. We throw around the word focus, say, you just got to focus more. And what I would say to people is, I think you need to add more meaning to the activity and what it's doing for you and where it's taking you. Because when you really somatically, so your physical body understands that me doing this practice, this activity is taking me to where I want to go. That alignment between the vision of what, whether what you want to become, what you're trying to create, A, it actually removes a whole bunch of the friction from staying focused on that thing. Because you know, you know desperately why you're doing this. So I would say if people are struggling with focus issues or even discipline issues, I would say that they're very detached from the meaning that they could be adding to this thing, which then gets me to a lot of people talk about habits and routines. And the delta difference between the people who get orders of magnitude difference in their world versus people who do do the rote active habit is we talk about rituals. And ritualization is very much lost in our culture today. We don't put young boys and we don't put young girls through the ritual of graduating from childhood into womanhood or you know, like we used to do in tribal days.
因为不是所有事情都是负面的。有时候我会问自己，真的吗？难道所有的犹太人都能做这个，或者都不能做这个？或者所有来自农村的人都能做某件事，或者不能做某件事？
提高表现的关键之一在于专注。怎么才能让我们集中注意力？我不会说要"黑客专注"，而是找到一种办法让我们更专注。我认为，精英级别的客户和那些甚至可以在其运动或者其他领域中表现出色的人，他们之间有一个很大的不同，那就是他们对活动的意义和意图有着不同的理解。
我们常说“你要更专注”。我会对人们说，我认为你需要赋予这个活动更多的意义——它对你的作用以及它带你去的地方。当你的身体和心灵真正理解到，这个练习或者活动正在带你通向想要达到的目标时，这种愿景和现实之间的对齐会大大减少专注上遇到的摩擦。因为你清楚地知道你为什么这样做，所以如果你在专注或者纪律上遇到问题，我会说这是因为你与这个活动的意义脱节了。
很多人谈论习惯和日常，而那些在世界上取得巨大成就的人和那些只是形式上重复习惯的人之间的区别在于仪式感。今天在我们的文化中，仪式感几乎已经消失了。我们不再像部落时代那样，通过某些仪式让男孩和女孩从童年过渡到成年。
Well religion also used to be full of ritual right and the decline of religion has, we've anesthetized a lot of these things. So what kind of ritual, like what kind of rituals do the very best have that other people don't have and how do they use them to become better. The preparation of transitioning into their role or their field of play. Okay, we're going to get into like now talks about imagery visualization. This is where this stuff really plays a part language does. We haven't talked about this yet Shane but one of the things that makes the alter ego concept so powerful is it reunites people back into their creative imagination, which I think is the great superpower of human beings. Our creative imagination is what sets us apart.
宗教以前也充满了仪式感，而宗教的衰落让我们麻木了很多这种体验。那么，最成功的人有什么样的仪式普通人没有，他们如何利用这些仪式变得更优秀？这包括他们如何准备、如何过渡进入自己的角色或竞技场。我们现在要讨论的是想象力和可视化，这些都是非常重要的。我们还没谈到这一点，Shane，但让“替身”概念如此强大的一个原因是，它能让人们重新回到他们的创造性想象中去，而我认为这是人类最大的超能力。我们的创造性想象力是让我们与众不同的关键。
And the creative imagination is also the one thing I have found that helps people move by the resistance that resistance that lives within, whether it's your ego, whether it's the fear of something. Creative imagination is the ultimate sword that slays resistance because it's just really just fundamentally it's accessing a different part of your brain anyway. It's sort of bypassing so much of your critical thinking factor because your creative imagination is active. So the rituals of transitioning out and onto the field of play, you had mentioned Kobe before, so when we were building the black mamba, now we needed to find a way to trigger that sense of that character, that self going out onto that court. And part of the process for me is building that mental movie theater for people. And for him, his words, I wanted to commune with the black mamba.
而创造性的想象力是我发现唯一能够帮助人们克服内心阻力的东西，无论那是你的自我，还是对某事的恐惧。创造性的想象力是斩除阻力的终极利器，因为它其实只是从根本上利用了大脑的不同部分。它通过激活你的创造性想象，让你绕过了许多批判性思维。所以说，当我们谈到从现实过渡到竞争状态时，你提到过科比，我们在塑造黑曼巴角色时需要找到一种方法来触发他在场上的那种感觉，那种自我的展示。对我来说，部分过程是为人们构建一个心理电影院。而对他来说，用他的话说，就是“我想与黑曼巴交流”。
So in many other people's worlds, maybe they would build a cage. This is very much for athletes. We'd build a cage and that thing lives inside the cage. And then they would open the cage and then the thing gets unleashed. Kobe was different in that he wanted to commune with it so he got into the cage with it. And that's all the mental thing that's happening in the locker room before going out onto the court. And there's that trigger that's happening. And the great thing about triggers in the book I talk about in clothed cognition. And what in clothed cognition is is because I have a story about what it means to have a white doctor's coat on, your detailed, your methodical, your careful, your smart. If I actually put on a doctor's coat, I will enclose my cognitive traits in the abilities of smart, detailed, methodical and careful.
所以，在许多其他人的世界里，他们可能会建造一个笼子。这对于运动员来说尤其如此，我们会建造一个笼子，然后把那东西关在笼子里。然后他们会打开笼子，那东西就被释放出来了。科比则不同，他想与它交流，所以他自己走进了笼子。这就是在上场比赛前更衣室里发生的全部心理活动。有一个触发机制正在发生。在我书中谈到的触发机制中，有一种叫“着装认知”的概念。所谓的着装认知是指，由于我有关于穿上白大褂意味着什么的故事——你会细致、系统、谨慎、聪明。如果我真的穿上医生的白大褂，我的认知特质就会被包裹在聪明、细致、系统和谨慎的能力中。
Now, if I'm about to go do something that demands being careful and methodical and detailed, I've just elevated my performance, my ability to go and execute that because of wearing the thing. So for me, it was wearing a pair of non prescription glasses when I was 22 years old because I felt like I had a baby face. I looked like I was 12. It was getting in the way of me even believing that I was credible. And so I went and bought a pair of non prescription glasses for my alter ego, Super Richard, so I could step into a new identity that wasn't so worried about rejection. And Super Richard was specifically hired to do sales calls because I wasn't doing them. I was good at coaching, but I just wasn't good at promoting myself. So those rituals are rituals is when routine or habit meets storytelling because that's meaning.
现在，如果我要做一些需要小心、细致和有条不紊的事情，因为我穿戴了那个东西，我的表现和执行能力得到了提升。对我来说，在22岁时，我戴上一副没有度数的眼镜，因为我觉得自己长得太年轻，看起来像12岁一样。这影响了我自己相信我有可信度。因此，我为我的另一个身份——超级理查德——买了一副没有度数的眼镜，这样我可以进入一个不那么担心被拒绝的新身份。超级理查德的任务是专门负责打销售电话，因为我自己没在做这件事。我擅长指导，但不擅长自我推销。因此，这些仪式是当日常或习惯遇到故事讲述时产生的，因为它们富有意义。
It's not Kobe that's getting trash talk, it's the mamba that's getting trash talk now when it goes into the arenas and everyone's got the slurred chance because he's someone who's just an abuser or whatever the case was. We had to create that for his own mental wellbeing. I love the idea of having that. Do most people tell other people about it? Like Kobe has sort of like made this famous, but I would imagine that most people just sort of like keep it to themselves. They do even Kobe. We created it in 2004. He didn't tell the world about it until 2009 when he won the World Championship, when they were when the NBA Championship, even Beyonce with Sasha Fierce. Sasha Fierce wasn't revealed to the world really until 2008 when she was retiring her. No one is going to go to the press conference after the game and say, oh, my alter ego so and so crushed it today. These are all creative mechanisms that we do to help us pursue the things that are difficult or challenging. It's not just one concept and one idea of we're only doing it to help us get past some sort of traumas. It's also an extremely playful thing.
意思是这些垃圾话不是针对科比本人，而是针对“曼巴”。当科比在球场上打球时，大家会用模糊不清的言语侮辱他，称他是个滥用者之类的。为了维护他的心理健康，我们创造了这个角色。尽管科比把这个概念带火了，我猜大多数人通常不会公开谈论自己的“另一个自己”。事实上，即使是科比也是这么做的。我们在2004年创造了这个角色，但他直到2009年赢得NBA总冠军时才向世界揭示。同样的情况也发生在碧昂丝身上，她也是在2008年宣布退出歌坛时才公开了“Sasha Fierce”这个角色。没有人会在比赛后的记者会上说“我的另一个自我今天表现得很好”。这些都是我们用来帮助自己应对困难和挑战的创造性机制。这不仅仅是一种单一的概念或想法，也不仅仅是为了帮助我们克服某些创伤，它也可以是非常有趣的事情。
There's many different reasons why someone might be employing the alter ego, but at the end of the day, it comes back to the quote that I share all the time from Carrie Grant, the Hollywood Golden-era actor who was growing up in Bristol, England was challenged throughout his life with some mental health and some depression and stuff. But he wanted to make it to Hollywood and he had this vision in his mind of being debonair and charismatic. And so he built Carrie Grant. That's not as originally. And at the end of his career, he was getting interviewed. And he said, I pretended to be somebody I wanted to be until I finally became that person, or he became me, but at some point, we met. And that's when you feel very, very fulfilled because you realize all of a sudden one day, the actions that are now habitual to you, you become unconsciously competent at them. You become unconsciously competent at the identity that you actually wanted to have. And the way that you know that is because your performance is living up to your capabilities. And you do the things that that person would do. And then you become the person or the person you've adopted. I think that's beautiful.
有很多不同的原因促使某人采用另一个自我（即化身），但归根结底，这与我常常分享的一句话息息相关。这句话来自好莱坞黄金时代的演员凯瑞·格兰特。凯瑞·格兰特在英国布里斯托尔长大，他一生中饱受精神健康问题和抑郁症的困扰，但他渴望闯荡好莱坞，并在心中勾画出一个温文尔雅、充满魅力的形象。于是，他塑造了凯瑞·格兰特这个角色。凯瑞·格兰特并不是他本来的样子。在他职业生涯的尽头，当他接受采访时，他说：“我假装自己是我想成为的人，直到我最终变成了那个人，或者他变成了我，但最终我们合二为一。”当你意识到这一点时，你会感到非常满足，因为你突然有一天发现，现在已经习惯成自然的行为，正是你原本想要拥有的身份。而你知道这点的方式是因为你的表现达到了你的能力，你在做着那个人会做的事情。然后，你变成了那个人，或者说，你所认为的那个人。这是一件很美妙的事情。
My kids used to joke with me all the time. They're like, Oh, you're in dad mode. And it actually made me like a better parent. I was like, Oh, yeah, I kind of am. Right. And then I thought, what does it mean to be in dad mode? What techniques do you use to help people visualize? The name itself is misleading visualization. Reality is, there's about 20% of society that can't form visual pictures in their mind. Okay, but they're very auditory so they can hear things. Everyone. There isn't many people I've ever found that can't hear things. So the first thing is, technique wise is you want to engage all of your senses. What are you going to hear? What are you going to taste or touch or feel like on your skin or make it real? Yeah, make it holographic. Bring yourself into it. I call it scripting. It's one of the things I became known for very early in the early 2000s is writing is the doing part of thinking.
我的孩子们以前总是和我开玩笑，说：“哦，你进入爸爸模式了。” 其实这让我成为了一个更好的父母。我当时想，确实是这样。然后我开始思考，进入“爸爸模式”到底意味着什么？你用什么技巧来帮助人们进行视觉化？事实上，不同于这个词的字面意思，有大约20%的人无法在心中形成视觉图像，但他们听觉很敏锐，能听到很多东西。我很少碰到无法听见声音的人。所以，第一步技巧是你要调动所有感官。你将会听到什么？你将会尝到或触摸到什么？你的皮肤会感觉到什么？让一切变得真实。是的，让它像全息影像一样。我称之为编剧。这是我在2000年代初期就以之闻名的技巧之一，因为写作是思考的行动部分。
So I found that when I get people to write out their visualization in the process, not the outcome in the process. So when I walk towards the gate, and my glove and hand grabs onto the boards. And I, and my skate blade feels the ice beneath me. I can feel myself gaining more confidence. And now the sound of my blades as they cut through the ice as we do our warm up with every single stride. I feel more and more of the power of the rink sort of soak up inside of me. So that's what I'm talking about. So write it out. So people who struggle with visualization just know that A, it is a skill like anything else. People make it sound like, oh, everyone can visualize. Well, yeah, we all use forethought every single day. When you think about, oh, you know what, I need to get eggs and milk. And, and so, yes, we do it. But most people do not use visualization or imagery skills in a dynamic way for what you want to achieve and feel in life. Yes.
所以，我发现，当我让人们在过程中写下他们的可视化时，而不是结果，而是在过程中。 比如说，当我走向门口时，我的手套和手握住了栏杆。 然后，我的滑冰刀感受到下面的冰面，我能感觉到自己更加自信了。 现在，随着每一步我滑过冰面时刀刃的声音，我们在做热身时，我感觉到场地的力量逐渐渗入我的身体。 这就是我在说的。 所以，把它写下来。 对于那些在可视化方面挣扎的人知道，A，可视化是一种技能，就像任何其他技能一样。 人们常说，好像每个人都会可视化。 嗯，是的，我们每天确实都会用到预见性。 比如当你想到，我需要买鸡蛋和牛奶时，是的，我们确实在这么做，但大多数人并没有以动态的方式使用可视化或想象技能来实现和感受他们在人生中想要的东西。 是的。
The final thing is I would highly encourage people to do what I call fly on the wall visualization. And that is imagine yourself as a fly on the wall with the people that you might respect or would love to hear talking about you in the context of whatever your role is. And what are you hearing them say? What's the conversation? That seems to anchor inside of people's hearts even more is the words of other people. And what I found after sharing this concept for two decades when saying like, what, why do, why does that one feel different for you as a strategy for your visualization? And I said, because my imagination for what I see other people or thinking about what other people are saying about me doesn't sound like that. I think people are talking about how terrible I am or how I'm not good enough or I don't know how that person thinks. So inviting in a very different conversation into my mind. That's, that's been the most meaningful thing for me.
最后，我强烈建议大家试试我称之为“墙上苍蝇”的可视化练习。这意味着要想象自己成为一只墙上的苍蝇，听那些你尊敬或者希望听到他们谈论你的人在说些什么。他们的对话是什么内容？这似乎能更深刻地触动人们的心灵，因为这是他人对你的评价。经过二十年的分享，我发现这个概念之所以对人们的可视化策略尤其有效，是因为他们平时对自己想象中他人的话语可能很负面，比如觉得别人会说我很糟糕、不够好或者不知道为什么那个人会这样想。所以引导自己脑海中出现一种截然不同的对话是非常有意义的。对我而言，这种方法是最有意义的。
So two questions left. One, how do we fend off complacency? It seems like a lot of times we achieve success. All the things we thought of for success. I'm using that word again broadly and very loosely. Everybody can interpret that however they want to. We achieved the things we want to achieve. We reached sort of like where we had dreamed to go where like 30 and not 60. And then what? How do we fend that or you make the NBA? You make the NHL and then. Oh, I've made it. I've accomplished this dream I've had for 10, you know, 10 years and I've worked really hard to get here. And now I want to enjoy it. I want to go. I want to party. I want to take care of my family. I want to increase the surface area. I want all those, those are the people who don't make it though. Because when I say to people in the context of there's goal setting two and goal setting through. Oh, tell me about this. Well, do we want to simply land the people on the moon? I would like to return them safely to Earth. Like, you know, when, when JFK said, you know, by the end of this decade, we will have landed a man on the moon and returned to him safely to Earth. That's my best. It's going to be the most important part of that mission was the returning the person safely to Earth. Right? That's two and through to the moon through the moon was was bringing the person back. So your goal wasn't to make it to the NBA. Okay. So you got drafted, made it there on day one and they cut you on day one. Is that what you actually wanted? No. What you wanted was to make it to the NBA and have a 10, 12, 15 year long career where you were a leader on the team and you were top-per-time career. Top producer as well. And then some people might go, and I want to be the legend. I want to be the greatest of all time. Right? Maybe that's it. So the complacency thing, I would say doesn't typically set in when people reach that kind of experience. But if you are noticing or feeling like you are being complacent, put yourself into the identity of an amateur somewhere.
那么还有两个问题。第一个是，我们如何防止自满? 很多时候我们取得了成功，达到了我们设想中的目标。当我使用“成功”这个词时，非常宽泛和松散地使用。每个人都可以根据自己的理解来定义。我们实现了我们想要达到的目标，到达了我们梦想中的地方，比如在30岁而不是60岁的时候。然后呢？我们如何防止自满? 假设你进入了NBA或NHL，然后觉得，“我成功了，我实现了我的梦想，这个梦想我追求了十年，努力工作来到这里，现在我想享受它。我想去派对，照顾我的家人，扩大我的生活圈子。” 但那些安于现状的人通常不会成功。因为当我与人们谈论目标设定时，我会提到“设定目标”和“通过目标”。呃，告诉我这个。我们是否仅仅是想把人送上月球？不，我想让他们安全返回地球。当肯尼迪说，“在这个十年结束之前，我们将把人类送上月球并安全带回地球”时，他说的最重要的部分是“安全返回地球”。这就是“通过目标”的意义，不仅是到月球，还要带他们回来。所以你的目标不仅仅是进入NBA。你被选中了，第一天进入了，但第一天就被裁掉了。这是你想要的吗？不。你想要的是进入NBA，并有一个10、12甚至15年的职业生涯，成为球队的领袖和顶级球员。然后一些人可能会说，我想成为传奇，成为历史最伟大的人。这可能就是目标。因此，当人们达到这一类经验时，通常不会变得自满。但如果你发现自己有自满的迹象，把自己放在一个你还不擅长的领域，让自己重新成为一个“业余选手”，这样可以激励你保持进步。
Start something new and it could be in your personal life. Start building a new skill. Start a new hobby where it's challenging you in some new way. The other thing too is I highly encourage people to schedule average. What does that mean? What I mean is there are times when you might be pushing in one area of your life and it's like, you know what, in these other areas, the amount of energy, effort, emotion it would take for me to be world-class in like four different domains of my life. You'll burn yourself out. NBA, Major League Baseball and NHL players will play multiple times in a week. NHL NBA typically the most would be three games. Major League Baseball could be upwards of six. For the NBA guy who has three games this week, when I'm first working with him, I'd say, hey Shane, can you pick which one of these games you're going to be average at? And they're like, wait, what? No, I need you to pick a game this week that you're not going to push yourself as hard as you would in the other games.
开始一些新的事情，这可以是你个人生活中的新尝试。开始培养一项新技能。开始一个新爱好，让它以某种新的方式挑战你。
另一个建议我强烈推荐的是要学会“安排平常”。这是什么意思呢？我的意思是，有时你可能在生活的某个领域非常努力，而在其他领域，要在四个不同的方面都做到世界级水平需要付出大量的精力、努力和情感。这样做会让你精疲力竭。
NBA、美国职业棒球大联盟和NHL（国家冰球联盟）的球员们每周都有多场比赛。NHL和NBA通常一周最多三场比赛，而美国职业棒球大联盟可能达到六场。如果某个NBA球员这周有三场比赛，当我刚开始和他合作时，我会说：“嘿，Shane，你能选一场比赛，让自己在这场比赛中表现得普通一点吗？”他们可能会惊讶地说：“等等，什么？我需要你选一场比赛，在这场比赛中你不要像其他比赛那样拼尽全力。”
Okay, just be average. You're kind of trying to index towards what your normal kind of average median score would be. Okay? 77% of the time, that was their best performance of the week. Why? Because they relaxed into it. They weren't forcing anything. There was more of an allowing mindset that was there. Is it really you being complacent right now? Or maybe is it a reflex of your human system to just want to like go into a state of like maintenance or optimization or readiness mode where the next big thing will show up for you? I'm conscious of the time here. I want to end with the same question we ask everybody, which is, what is success for you?
好的，只要做到平均就行了。你其实是在朝着你正常情况下的平均中位数成绩靠近，对吧？好的，有77%的时间，他们这是他们一周内的最佳表现。为什么呢？因为他们放松了下来，没有勉强自己。他们更多的是一种顺其自然的心态。你现在真的在自满吗？还是说这可能是你的人类系统的一种反应，只是想进入一种维护、优化或准备模式，以迎接下一个大事的来临？我知道时间不多了。我想用我们问每个人的同一个问题来结束，那就是，对你来说，成功是什么？
So again, in the debate, I'm not going to accept the frame of success, unfortunately. Now, I'll tell you what it is. My mission in life is to create as many smiling pillows as I possibly can. The reason I say that is the most honest place in your home is your pillow. Because where you take stock of your day, where you take stock of like how you dealt with your kids or you beat yourself up because you snapped on them when they didn't really have to snap on them. And so I'll have led a successful life if I can leave as many smiling pillows behind as I possibly can. And that's through sharing good ideas with people, encouraging people, maybe holding people to a higher standard for themselves so that when they lay their head on their pillow at night, they feel really good about the way that they showed up, maybe what they accomplished in that day, how they might have stood up for others or whatever their values are. That's what success is to me.
所以，在辩论中，我不打算接受"成功"这个框架。不幸的是，现在我要告诉你我的看法。我的人生使命是尽可能多地创造"微笑枕头"。我之所以这样说，是因为枕头是你家中最诚实的地方。在那里，你回顾自己的一天，反思如何与孩子相处，或者因为在孩子面前发脾气而责备自己——其实根本没必要发脾气。如果我能留下一些让人枕着时会心一笑的枕头，那我就觉得自己过上了成功的人生。
这是通过和大家分享好的想法、鼓励他人，或者让人们对自己有更高的标准来实现的。这样，当他们晚上把头靠在枕头上时，会对自己当天的表现感到满意，可能是对自己完成的事情、站出来支持他人，或者其他符合他们价值观的行为感到满意。对我来说，这才是成功。
Personally, if I can end my day feeling good and smiling on my pillow at night and I have my own little metrics that I would concern myself with regarding life and kids and business and self, then that's success to me. That's beautiful. Thank you very much, Todd, for taking the time today. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I just want to add a few reflections on this episode. I've started to do this recently and got a lot of emails saying people liked it. I've been assuming different identities for a long time. I just never really had a name around them. I think Todd helped me with the alter ego effect and being able to assume a different personality. I do this in moments where I need courage and I do it in moments where I have to do something that maybe I don't want to do or I have to appear more confident than I otherwise am. I assume this mask and the mask protects me from criticism and gives me a nudge, almost like a tailwind, a false confidence, if you will, in a way, to go out there and just perform at my best. It's incredible how powerful the way that you think about that is Todd has opened my eyes to some more possibility around this. I really appreciated the conversation with him.
个人而言，如果我能够在一天结束时感觉良好并且晚上枕着笑容入睡，我自己对生活、孩子、事业和自我有一套小小的衡量标准，那么对我来说，这就是成功。这太美好了。非常感谢你，Todd，今天愿意抽时间来参与。绝对的，感谢你的邀请。我想对这一期节目做一些反思。我最近开始这样做，并且收到了很多人的邮件，说他们很喜欢。我长时间以来一直在扮演不同的身份，只是从未正式给它们命名。我认为Todd通过“另一个自我效应”帮助了我，能够在需要勇气的时刻或不得不做一些自己不愿意做的事情，或者需要表现得比实际更自信的时候切换到不同的个性。我戴上这个“面具”，这个面具保护我免受批评，给我一种推动力，几乎就像逆风中的伪装自信，让我能在外面表现得最好。你对这一点的思考方式非常强大。Todd让我看到了更多的可能性。我非常感谢和他的对话。
I hope you check out his book, The Alter Ego Effect. It might just change your life. Thanks for listening and learning with us. For a complete list of episodes, show notes, transcripts, and more, go to fs.blog.com or just Google. The Knowledge Project. The Frontum Street Blog is also where you can learn more about my new book, Clear Thinking, turning ordinary moments into extraordinary results. It's a transformative guide that hands you the tools to master your fate, sharpen your decision making, and set yourself up for unparalleled success. Learn more at fs.blog.com. Until next time.
希望你能看看他写的书《替身效应》，它可能会改变你的生活。感谢你与我们一起收听和学习。完整的节目列表、节目笔记、文字记录等内容，请访问 fs.blog.com，或者直接搜索 “知识工程项目”。你还可以在 “前沿街博客” 了解我的新书《清晰思考》，这本书教你如何将平凡的时刻转化为非凡的成果，是一本让你掌握命运、提升决策能力，并为自己奠定无与伦比的成功基础的变革指南。了解更多信息请访问 fs.blog.com。下次再见。