Andrew Callaghan: Channel 5, Gonzo, QAnon, O-Block, Politics & Alex Jones | Lex Fridman Podcast #425
发布时间 2024-04-13 16:31:40 来源
There's two people in the back, two of her home girls wearing like, sheisty masks. I'm like, what are we doing? What, where are we going? And she goes, we're going to go film the riot. We're going to Lake Street. And so we drive down there. Kmart is burning. Target is burning. Everything is on fire. She has the Sony A7. She gives me a microphone and she's like, go talk to that guy. And that was a guy with a Molotov cocktail in his hand who had just burned Kmart down. And so I go, what should I ask him? She goes, what's on your mind? So I walk up to him and I'm like, what's on your mind?
后面有两个人，两个她的女朋友戴着像狡猾的面具。我问自己，我们在干什么？去哪里？她说，我们要去拍暴乱的画面。我们开车去了Lake Street。Kmart正在燃烧。Target也在燃烧。一切都着了火。她拿着Sony A7相机，给我一个麦克风，让我去采访那个人。那个人手里拿着一个燃烧瓶，他刚刚放火烧了Kmart。我问自己，我应该问他什么？她说，问他在想什么。于是我走过去，问他：“在想什么？”
The following is a conversation with Andrew Calligan, host of Channel 5 on YouTube where he does gospel style interviews with fascinating humans at the edges of society. The so-called vagrants, vagabonds, runaways, outlaws from queuing on adherence to fish heads, to ole block residents, and much more. He created the documentary that I highly recommend called This Place Rules on the undercurrents that led to the January 6th Capitol riots. This is the next treatment podcast to support it. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Andrew Calligan.
以下是与Andrew Calligan进行的对话，他是YouTube上Channel 5的主持人，在节目中以福音风格采访社会边缘的有趣人物。这些所谓的流浪者、游民、逃亡者、违法者，从排队吃鱼头，到老街坊居民等等。他制作了一部我强烈推荐的纪录片，名为《这个地方规则》，讲述了导致1月6日国会山暴动的潜在因素。这是下一个治疗播客来支持它。请查看我们描述中的赞助商。现在，亲爱的朋友们，这就是Andrew Calligan。
I tried to color match you though. Got the black and white gun. I went to Walmart before this and got the Wrangler shirt with the Texas Longhorns T-shirt. Is that where you shot Walmart? Generally, yeah, I'm a target man myself. There's no way you get those suits from Target. You see, you're saying it's a nice way to compliment a suit. I think you go men's warehouse if not further. I think you would be wrong. You go further. No, the other direction. You got that from Target, not Target. I was joking about Target. I like Walmart better. It just felt like a funny thing to say. It's not this funny. The most expensive thing I own is this watch, and it was given to me as a gift. Yeah.
尽管如此，我还是试图和你搭配颜色。买了黑白色的枪。在这之前我去了沃尔玛，买了一件带着德克萨斯长角牛标志的牛仔衬衫。你在沃尔玛击中了吗？一般来说，是的，我更喜欢目标公司。不可能从目标公司买到那些西装。你看，你说这是一个赞美西装的好方式。我觉得你应该去门店或者更远的地方。我想你错了。你需要更远。不是，相反的方向。你那是从目标公司买的，不是门店。我开玩笑说的目标公司。我更喜欢沃尔玛。这听起来有点好笑。我拥有的最贵的东西是这块手表，它是送给我的礼物。是的。
When I was on tour, I had these $2,700 Cartier glasses that I got for a lot of money. $2,700. Like sunglasses? Yeah, but they're really embarrassing. But I was on tour, so I just felt like I could do anything as far as fashion choices. But looking back at pictures from myself in that era, I'm like, God. So that was the symbol of the fame got to your head. I think so, yeah. I think it's fame getting to your head. If you spend more than 100 bucks on sunglasses, you've officially gone off. You've crossed a lot, totally. And that's where you go back to Walmart to humble yourself. I really love Walmart. In fact, I moved to Austin because I was a Walmart and a lady said that I look handsome in a suit. And I was like, that's it. I love this place. She just said it for no reason whatsoever. This older lady just kind of looked at me and with this genuine sweetness, just said, oh, you look handsome. She's not wrong, man. Thank you. That's part of your whole swag though. Yeah, the suit thing. Yep.
在我巡回演出时，我有一副花了大价钱买的价值2700美元的卡地亚眼镜。就是太阳镜吗？是的，但它们真的很尴尬。但当时我在巡回演唱会上，所以觉得自己可以在时尚选择上做任何事情。但回头看那个时代的照片，我觉得，天哪。所以那是名声冲昏了头脑的象征。我想是的，我想是名声冲昏了头脑。如果你在太阳镜上花了100美元以上，你就已经有点过分了。你已经跨越了很多界限。这时你应该回到沃尔玛来谦逊一下。我真的很喜欢沃尔玛。事实上，我搬到奥斯丁是因为我在沃尔玛时有位女士说我穿西装看起来很帅。我就是这样，我喜欢这个地方。她就这么随口说了一句，毫无原因。那位年长的女士看着我，真诚地说，“哦，你看起来很帅。”她并没有错，伙计。谢谢。这也是你整个风格的一部分。是的，西装就是这样。
Anyway, what was the first, if you remember, first recorded interview you did? Well, my first grade teacher, Mrs. Claudia, this is back in the day like I was telling you, we just asked her about her life in Columbia and stuff like that. But I didn't really get into actual journalism until my ninth grade year. I had no idea I had an interest in it. Before then, I wanted to be a rapper. It's all about hip hop and meditation and picking psilocybin mushrooms, public parks and stuff like that. That's what I was into. That's a lot. Psilocybin meditation, rap, public parks. Yeah. I was making conscious rap music. I was to the point where I had like four dream catchers hanging above my bed, Alex Gray painting on the wall, tapestry on the ceiling, just scribbling rhymes down all the time. So you said somewhere that you sucked at school. OK, well, let's step back a little bit.
无论如何，如果你记得的话，你做过的第一次采访是什么？嗯，我的一年级老师，克劳迪亚夫人，当时我告诉过你，我们就问她关于在哥伦比亚的生活等等的问题。但直到我九年级那年，我才真正开始涉足新闻工作。之前，我不知道自己对此感兴趣。在那之前，我想成为一个说唱歌手。我对嘻哈、冥想、采摘金针菇、公园等等都很感兴趣。那是我当时喜欢的事情。金针菇冥想、说唱音乐、公园。是的。我在创作有意识的说唱音乐。那时我床头挂着四个梦网，墙上是亚历克斯·格雷的画作，天花板上挂着挂毯，总是在胡乱写韵脚。所以你说过自己在学校很不好。好的，让我们回顾一下。
So I had this amazing journalism course in ninth grade. I went to an alternative high school. And the teacher was named Calvin Shaw. And he was just like, I ended up taking his class all four years. And he used to let me actually leave school. I didn't like going to school. So he'd let me basically go around Seattle and do different interviews with people as long as I could come back by the end of the day and write a story for his class. And he'd mark me as present. So the first article that I wrote was about the Silk Road and the Deep Web. Because as a ninth grader, when I discovered the Hidden Wiki, I thought that I was really tapping into the most secret society elite level black market in the world. And so if you remember they had that Hidden Wiki link, it was like hire a hitman. And so I messaged them and I was like, all right, when I get someone killed at my school, how much is it going to cost me? And I published my interview with the Hidden Wiki hitman. It was probably a fad or something. But who knows? And my first article was called Inside the Deep Web, a conversation with a hitman. That's nice. I mean, you're fearless even then. I mean, I was hiding behind a tour browser. So there's not much fear to be had. Oh, so it was anonymous. It was anonymous. But I did publish it under my name. So you're right, I could have been in danger.
所以，我在九年级上了一门很棒的新闻课程。我读的是一所另类高中。老师名叫卡尔文·肖。我四年都选他的课。他过去容许我离开学校。我不喜欢上学。所以他基本上让我在西雅图四处采访不同的人，只要我能在一天结束前回来写一篇故事给他的课。他会把我标记为出席。我写的第一篇文章是关于丝绸之路和深网的。因为作为一个九年级学生，当我发现了Hidden Wiki，我觉得我正在潜入世界上最秘密的社会精英级别的黑市。那时他们有一个Hidden Wiki链接，像是雇佣杀手。所以我给他们发了消息，说好，我在学校找到人想杀，要花多少钱？我发表了我与Hidden Wiki杀手的采访。那可能只是一时的狂热或什么的。但谁知道呢？我的第一篇文章名叫《深网之内，与杀手的对话》。很棒。我是说，你那时候就无畏了。我当时只是隐藏在一个旅游浏览器后面。所以没有什么可害怕的了。哦，所以是匿名的。是匿名的。但我确实用我的名字发表了它。你说得对，我可能会有危险。
I also saw that he said he took too many shrooms when you were young. And that led you to have hallucinogen persisting perception disorder, HPPD. Can you explain what this is? Well, that condition is classified by persistent visual snow, floaters, morphing objects. Like I see them right now. I see them all the time. This snow is in the room. The snow is definitely in the room. It's all over you. And basically, it wasn't that I took too many shrooms. I think that it was, I took about an eighth of Sennias and smushrooms, which are the ones that come from the earth instead of cow shit. And I took an eighth of those at my friend Toby's house, and which is a normal amount, but I was in eighth grade. So I woke up the next morning with these extreme visual distortions. And I thought that it would go away. I tried to make it go away, but there was really no cure for HPPD. It's a lifelong condition. So it's just a matter of dealing with it and realizing that it is only visual. So when people ask me, hey, I have HPPD, how do I cope with it? I say, remember that every other sense that you have what you can hear and what you can taste, your feet on the ground, you're still on earth. You're still here. Well, he said it's only visual. And yes, gratitude for being alive at all. Yes. It's great. But you said that this led you into some dark psychological places like depersonalization disorder. Depersonalization is the feeling that you are not real, but that reality still exists. Derealization is the idea that reality itself is an illusion created by your mind and that you're the only person alive. And that everything that your brain is projecting to your visual cortex is a lie and that you're the only living human being. Both are pretty intense. HPPD creates both of those things. And so when I've talked to people who have the condition, it's really either or, but more than 70% of people with HPPD fall into either category. They're both coping mechanisms for the, I don't know what really happens. I talked to a researcher once named Dr. Abraham. He lives in upstate New York. He's the leading scientists when it comes to HPPD research. He's the only one who actually seems to care about finding a cure. And the only known treatment right now is alcohol and benzodiazepines. That's not good. Right. So alcoholism, something that came into my life pretty early, alcohol abuse as a result of that experience because that helps with the visual symptoms, makes some of the static go away. Never tried benzod though. So can you explain to me where in that spectrum you are? Like, do you sometimes have a sense that you're not real? Sometimes something else is not real. Like the reality is not real. Yeah, I experience it all the time, you know. But like I said, my job helps with that because I get to feel like, you know, when you seek out extremes to a certain extent and you put yourself on the front lines of intense events, whether it be politically or socially, or just dive into deep fringe subcultures, you get this feeling that you're real.
我还看到他说过当你年轻时吃了太多蘑菇。这导致你患上了幻觉持续知觉障碍，HPPD。你能解释一下这是什么吗？嗯，这种情况表现为持续的视觉雪花、眼球漂浮以及物体扭曲。就像我现在看到的。我一直都能看到。这些雪花在房间里。这个雪绝对在房间里。它们遍布在你身上。基本上，并不是因为我吃了太多蘑菇。我觉得是因为我吃了大约八分之一的土地上生长的蘑菇，而不是牛粪中取出的蘑菇。我在我朋友托比家吃了八分之一的蘑菇，这是正常的剂量，但当时我才八年级。所以第二天早上我醒来时出现了这些极端的视觉扭曲。我以为会自己消失的。我试图让它消失，但其实HPPD没有真正的治疗方法。这是一个终生的情况。所以只能学会应对它并意识到这只是视觉上的改变。所以当有人问我，嘿，我有HPPD，怎么应对？我会说，记住你还有其他感官，你能听到的声音、尝到的味道，感觉脚踩在大地上，你还活在这个世界上。嗯，他说这只是视觉问题。是的。对于活着的感激。是的。但你说这导致你陷入了一些黑暗的心理状态，比如脱离感障碍。脱离感是一种感觉你不真实的状态，但现实仍然存在。现实解体则是你的大脑创造了现实的幻觉，你是唯一活着的人。你的大脑投射给视觉皮质的一切都是谎言，你是唯一的活着的人。这两种状态都非常强烈。HPPD会导致这两种状况。所以当我和有这种症状的人交谈时，通常是其中之一，但超过70%的HPPD患者会同时出现这两种症状。它们是针对我不清楚的情况的应对机制。我曾经和一个名叫亚伯拉罕博士的研究者交谈过，他住在纽约州北部。在HPPD研究方面是领先的科学家。他似乎是唯一一个真正关心寻找治愈方法的人。目前唯一已知的治疗方法是酒精和苯二氮卓啶。那不太好。是的。酗酒是我早期生活中出现的一个问题，因为那可以缓解视觉症状，让一些静态消失。不过从来没有尝试过苯二氮卓啶。那么你能告诉我你处于这个谱上的什么位置吗？比如你有时会感觉自己不真实吗？还是觉得其他事物不真实？现实不真实。是的，我总是有这种感觉，你懂吗。但就像我说的，我的工作有助于缓解这种情况，因为当你追求极端，把自己置身于激烈事件的前线，不论是政治上还是社会上，或者深入边缘亚文化，你会感到自己是真实的。
And being filmed is also confirmation, if you can look at the MP4 file that you're in fact living here on Earth. Confirming that you were in it with reality by watching a cell phone video. Exactly. So is that basically the engine behind all the extreme interviews you've done? Well, I got HPPD around the same time that I began this journalism course in ninth grade. So I sort of always use journalism as a therapeutic mechanism to deal with some of these symptoms, especially depersonalization. There's some pretty good illustrations of what it feels like. Kind of feels like you're trapped behind your eyes or that you're just this like nebulous soul that's trapped in a flesh suit that you're not really a part of. You're sort of puppeteering a flesh and bone skin suit. Trapped? Or just the ability to step outside of yourself? You feel like your soul is not something that is connected to your body. It's something living in your head. It's really hard to explain to people who haven't gone through derealization or depersonalization. But if you go on support groups, they always say like, how do I break free from behind my eyes? Like dark stuff like that. Also you're trapped. I mean, there's a higher state of being through meditation that you can kind of step outside of yourself. But this is not that.
拍摄也是确认的方式，如果你能看到你在地球上生活的MP4文件。通过观看手机视频来确认你确实和现实在一起。没错。那基本上就是你做过的所有极端采访的动力吗？嗯，在九年级开始学这门新闻课程的同时我也得了HPPD。所以我一直将新闻作为一种治疗机制来处理这些症状，特别是脱人感。有一些相当好的描绘它是什么感觉的例子。感觉好像你被困在自己的眼睛后面，或者只是这种像是被困在一个肉体外衣里的模糊灵魂，你并不真正属于其中。你有点像是在操纵一具血肉之躯的演员。被困？还是只是能够跳出自己的能力？你感觉你的灵魂并不是和身体连接在一起的东西。它就像是在你的脑袋里生活着。这对于没有经历过现实解体或脱人感的人来说是很难解释的。但如果你参加支持团体，他们总是说，我怎么能摆脱眼前的囹圄呢？像这样黑暗的东西。同时你被困在这里。我是说，通过冥想有一种更高的存在状态，你可以跳出自己。但这并不是那种情况。
Unfortunately, it was kind of the meditative path or the Eastern path that I took and kind of fused that with psychedelic culture in Seattle that took me down the psychedelic use rabbit hole in the first place. So like I'd say it all started with Siddhartha. Siddhartha, that's a good book. Have you done Shroom since then? No, I don't really do psychedelic drugs. But like a lot of people think that I'm against them which I'm not just doesn't work for me. If it works for you, I'm sure that can be really fun. Especially I know there's lots of like therapeutic uses for acid and ketamine and psilocybin. But I personally abstain from those kind of anything psychotropic I try to stay away from. Drinking a bit. Well, yeah, I mean, I didn't drink it all before I had the HPPD stuff. And I would have drank later in life but definitely like 14, 15 every day after school I drink a 40 ounce of Mickey's.
不幸的是，我开始走了冥想之路或者说是东方之路，然后将其与西雅图的迷幻文化融合在一起，导致我最初沉迷于使用迷幻药物。所以我想说一切都始于《悉达多》这本书。《悉达多》，是一本好书啊。自那以后你有尝试过蘑菇吗？不，我并不经常使用迷幻药物。但很多人以为我反对它们，其实我并不是，只是它们对我没什么用。如果迷幻药物对你有效，我相信那肯定很有趣。尤其我知道迷幻酸、氯胺酮和麦角酸有很多像治疗的用途。但我个人对这些类别的东西都尽量避免。偶尔喝点酒。是的，我在得了HPPD之前根本不喝酒。虽然后来我会在生活中适量喝点，但肯定不像14、15岁时每天放学后就喝一瓶40盎司的Mickey's那样。
It's like a kind of looks like old English but the bottle's green and it has a hornet on the side of it. Just kind of became a ritual just to deal with the anxiety of that situation. And it made the snow go away? Yeah, alcohol really works to suppress HPPD symptoms. So you said you hated classes in school except that journalism class. Okay, we need to clear this up because on my Wikipedia page for some reason for Andrew Callahan early life, it says Andrew hated every single class except for one. So I've had a bunch of teachers who are super cool. Like this guy Tim, my astronomy professor at ninth grade. Mrs. Zenetti, my creative writing teacher in sixth grade. And this really cool dude at my college in New Orleans named Charles Cannon who taught me a class called New Orleans Mythology. My three favorite classes besides my journalism class and they all hit me up. And they're like, hey man, saw you said you hated every class. I'm sorry I couldn't be everything that you wanted me to be. And so I just wanna say shout out to all those teachers. I didn't hate every class.
这瓶酒看起来有点像古英语，但瓶子是绿色的，上面有一个黄蜂。就像变成一种仪式来处理那种情况的焦虑。它竟然能让雪消失？是的，酒精真的可以抑制HPPD症状。所以你说你讨厌学校的课程，除了新闻课。好的，我们需要澄清一下，因为在我的维基百科页面上提到安德鲁·卡拉汉的早年生活，说安德鲁讨厌除了一个以外的每一门课。所以我有很多很酷的老师。像是我九年级的天文学教授蒂姆、我六年级的创意写作老师泽内蒂夫人，以及我在新奥尔良学院的这位名叫查尔斯·坎农的超酷教授，教我一门叫做新奥尔良神话的课程。除了新闻课外，它们都是我特别喜欢的三门课。他们都联系我说，“嘿，看到你说讨厌了每一门课。”我很抱歉我不能做到你期望的一切。所以我想对所有那些老师表示感谢。我并不是讨厌每一门课。
The point that I was making is that being forced into the institution of school so young and having to take common core classes like biology, dissecting frogs, history of the Han Dynasty, stuff like that that I didn't want to learn but I had to learn multiple times. I mean, I learned about the dynastic cycle in ancient China. Three separate times at three different schools. And I was like, who is writing this curriculum and why is it so important that I understand this process? Yeah. The part that makes school difficult, especially in college is that you have people just going to school just to get the degree who don't really know exactly what they're interested in and they don't even have time to figure that out because they're in a business program or a communications program with no specific interest. Well, I think if you wanna do school right, take on every single subject that you're forced into. It's like the David Foster Wallace, just be unborable by it. Just really going as if ancient Chinese dynasties are the most interesting thing you could possibly learn.
我想说的是，被迫在这么小的年纪就进入学校制度，并且不得不学习像生物、解剖青蛙、汉朝历史这样的通课，这些我并不想学但却不得不在多个学校学习多次。比如，我学过古代中国的王朝循环论三次，分别在三所不同学校。我就在想，究竟是谁写的这套课程，为什么这个过程对我如此重要呢？对我而言，学校变得困难的一部分，尤其是在大学里，是因为有些人只是为了拿到学位而去上学，他们并不确切知道自己的兴趣所在，甚至没有时间去弄清楚，因为他们在商业项目或传播项目中，丝毫没有明确的兴趣。我认为，如果你想学好学校，就要接受自己强迫学习的每一个科目。就像戴维·福斯特·华莱士所说的，对于它不感到无聊。要真正投入其中，好像古代中国王朝是你可能学习的最有趣的事物。
And it is somewhat interesting to Silk Road and the Great Wall and Terracotta soldiers and stuff. But I'm just saying like when I got to college, I signed up for journalism school, right? And I didn't get to take a media class until the second semester and I had to take everything prior to that and I'd already spent so much time. I just think the excruciating boredom of schooling left a bad taste in my mouth. But there was individual classes that I liked a lot. Yeah, there should be some choice or maybe a lot of choice even at the level of high school for what kind of classes you pursue. Yeah, for sure. And you're also saying so Wikipedia is not always perfectly right. No, but it's just interesting because I've said so much in podcasts but that's what they isolated.
这样看来，丝绸之路、长城和兵马俑等都具有一定的趣味性。但我想说的是，当我上大学时，我报了新闻学院，对吧？但直到第二学期我才上媒体课程，之前我不得不上所有其他课程，那时我已经花了太多时间。我觉得学校的无聊令人煎熬，给我留下了不好的印象。但也有一些个别的课程我非常喜欢。是的，高中阶段应该有一些选择，甚至很多选择，来决定你学什么课程。对，肯定的。你也说维基百科并不总是完全正确。是的，但有趣的是我在播客中说了这么多内容，而他们却选择了这个来突出。
And I've gotten that question before, which I understand it's the first thing on my Wikipedia page, but it makes me sound like a super hater. Have you ever seen this Instagram page called depth of Wikipedia? Oh, that's great. Oh, it's so good, dude. You said you love journalism. What did you love about journalism? I mean, what hooked you? On a basic level, everybody wants media coverage, right? Everyone likes to be on camera and get exposure for whatever they're doing. And so being a journalist and being almost like a portal for exposure for people allows you to be on the front row of everything that you want to be a part of.
我之前遇到过这个问题，我知道这是我维基百科页面上的第一条信息，但这让我听起来像是一个非常讨厌的人。你看过这个叫做维基百科深度的Instagram页面吗？哦，太好了。哦，太棒了，伙计。你说你喜欢新闻业。你喜欢新闻业的什么？我是说，是什么让你着迷的？基本上，每个人都希望得到媒体的报道，对吧？每个人都喜欢上镜，为他们所做的事情得到曝光。所以成为一个新闻记者，几乎就像是一个为他人曝光的门户，让你可以参与所有你想参与的事情的第一排。
You get to be in the front row for history as it's unfolding because everyone wants to be covered. So being a journalist gives you a ticket to everywhere that you want to go in life. And so it allows you to step into different realities almost and then go back to yours. And it just keeps life interesting. Buy the ticket, take the ride. Hunter S Thompson is Z up there and is one of the influences. Who are your influences? I think the early Daily Show was so good. Sasha Baron Cohen, huge influence. I mean, that was like the Ali G Show especially.
作为记者，你有机会第一时间亲历历史的发展，因为每个人都希望被报道。所以成为一名记者就像拥有了一张生活中想要去的任何地方的门票。这让你几乎可以走进不同的现实世界，然后回到自己的现实生活中。这让生活变得更加有趣。买票，上车。亨特·S·汤普森是我崇拜的人之一，是我受到的影响。你的影响力是谁？我认为早期的《每日秀》非常出色。萨沙·巴伦·科恩是我的巨大影响。我是说，尤其是《阿里·G秀》。
I think Louis Thoreau's broadcasts on BBC were great. I was really into Hunter S Thompson too, but not really until college. You know, I really like a particular Hunter S Thompson book called The Great Shark Hunt, where he covers the Ruben Salazar murder by LAPD or LA Sheriff's Department in Boyle Heights in the 70s. And his relationship with his lawyer, Oscar Acosta, and that whole saga is great. Fear and loathing, I like, but not as much as his straightforward reporting. Cause there's the Gonzo side of Hunter where he's like saying he's taking drugs and seeing shit.
我觉得路易斯·梭罗在BBC的广播节目很棒。我也很喜欢亨特·S·汤普森，但直到上大学才真正喜欢上他。你知道吗，我特别喜欢亨特·S·汤普森的一本书叫《伟大的鲨鱼狩猎》，他在书中报道了70年代洛杉矶县警察局或洛杉矶警长办公室在博伊尔高地斯杀害鲁本·萨拉萨的事情。他和他的律师奥斯卡·阿科斯塔的关系，整个传奇都很棒。我喜欢《恐惧和厌恶》，但并不如他直接的报道那么喜欢。因为亨特有一面“古斗士”（Gonzo）的一面，他声称自己在吸毒并看到了一些奇怪的东西。
And there's the other side of him, which is like an actual reporter interested in telling a story that has news value. So it's two different lanes for him. There is something about you that makes people want to say you're the Hunter S Thompson of this generation. And I don't think they mean the drugs. I think they mean some kind of non-standard willingness to explore the extremes of humanity. And like almost the celebration of the extremes of humanity.
他还有另一面，就像是一个真正对新闻价值感兴趣的记者，想要讲述一个故事。所以对他来说，有两种不同的道路。你身上有一些特质让人们觉得你是这个时代的汉特·汤普森（Hunter S Thompson）。我不认为他们指的是吸毒。我认为他们是指一种非标准的愿意探索人类极端的精神。差不多是在庆祝人类极端的特质。
Yeah, well, it's a very kind comparison. I'll get there one day maybe. I just went to Aspen on a little Hunter S Thompson recon trip to go check out the Woody Creek Tavern, which is the spot that he was like his bar near his cabin. And it was pretty cool to see. Unfortunately, it's kind of turned into not a dive bar now, but it's a sit down sort of country restaurant, but it was cool. But I expected to see a bunch of gnarly Hunter S Thompson types.
是的，这是一个很友善的比较。也许有一天我会到那里。我刚刚去了阿斯彭做了一次亨特·S·汤普森的侦察之旅，去看看伍迪溪小酒馆，那是他的小屋附近的一个酒吧。看到那里真的很酷。不过可惜的是，现在它变成不再是一个破旧酒吧，而是一个坐下来吃饭的乡村餐厅，但还是很酷的。不过我原以为会看到一群很狂野的亨特·S·汤普森类型的人。
What's he doing drugs and alcohol is all part of it somehow. Yeah. So it opens a gateway to a deeper understanding of humanity. But I will say though, like as someone now who doesn't party like I did when I was younger, it's not as important as I thought it was. You know, yeah, I'm conflicted on this. I'm good friends with a lot of people that say alcohol is really bad for you. And I believe that too. But there's something that I've just as an introvert as a person who has a lot of anxiety. For me, alcohol has opened doors of like just opening myself up to the world more.
他为什么要吸毒和喝酒，这都是其中的一部分。是的。它为人类的更深层理解打开了一扇门。但我要说的是，作为一个现在不像年轻时那样狂欢的人，它并不像我以前认为的那么重要。你知道，我对此感到矛盾。我和很多人是好朋友，他们说酒精对你真的很不好。我也相信这一点。但对我来说，作为一个内向的人，一个有很多焦虑的人来说，酒精为我打开了更多自己与世界的交流之门。
Oh, I'm actually a fan of alcohol, moderate drinking. But I'm saying like my life before, I would say 2019, 2018 especially, there was the chaos on camera, but then there was my private life, which was like chaotic partying all the time. Oh, I see. And I convinced myself much like Hunter did, that that was the secret sauce that in the core, the spiritual, in my spiritual core, that gave me the creativity. But then I cut out a lot of that stuff and I'm just as creative. And it's interesting that a lot of, I think one of the hardest parts about addiction is that if you're functioning, highly creative, addict of any kind, your brain and your addictive part of your brain convinces yourself that it's all part of the cross-purpose and that it has this like symbiotic, inspirational thing going on, but it's not true. It can be, but it's typically not.
哦，事实上我是一个酒精爱好者，适度饮酒。但是我想说的是，就像我的生活之前，我会说2019年，尤其是2018年，那时镜头前是混乱的场面，但是我的私人生活也是混乱的派对。哦，我明白了。我像亨特一样说服自己，那就是在我精神核心中，那是给我创造力的秘诀。但后来我削减了很多那些东西，我同样富有创造力。有趣的是，我认为上瘾最困难的部分之一是，如果你是一个功能良好的高度创造性的任何类型的上瘾者，你的大脑和上瘾的部分会说服自己，这一切都是为了相互作用和启发，但这并不是真的。它可能会有，但通常不会。
Yeah, it's not a requirement. You can sometimes channel, you can sometimes leverage all those things for your creativity, but the creative engine it lives outside of that. Like have you read that Hunter's a daily routine and a year up to his death? It was like 15 grapefruits and apolic oak and just like a certain amount of shotgun shells for him to fire into the sky every morning? Yeah. There's no way, and he didn't do anything creative in those final years. Yeah. But so the creativity goes away and gradually you just become like a party animal, like Andy Dick. A caricature of yourself. Yeah. I mean, that's why life is interesting. You make all kinds of choices and sometimes you can have, create works of genius in a shorter amount of time based on drugs and no drugs. Einstein had that miracle year where he published several incredible papers in one year in 1905.
是的，这不是一个必要条件。有时候你可以借用，有时候你可以利用所有这些东西来激发你的创造力，但创造力的引擎其实存在于那之外。比如你有没有读过亨特的日常生活和他去世前一年的情况？每天早上他会吃15个柚子，一些阿波利克橡木和一定数量的霰弹枪弹。可是，在那最后几年他没有做过任何创意的事。是的。所以创造力逐渐消失，最后你只变成一个派对动物，就像安迪·狄克。变成了你自己的一个夸张形象。是的。我是说，这就是为什么生活是有趣的。你做出各种各样的选择，有时你可以在短时间内，无论有无药物的情况下，创作出杰作。爱因斯坦就有那个奇迹般的一年，在1905年发表了几篇令人难以置信的论文。
Did he do drugs before that? Lots of coke and. I was like, I believed you for a second. I'm like, Einstein have bloke. I don't think he did. I do think he gets that hair. Come on, it's true. I'm just asking questions. High confidence hair. Look into it. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, no, he's a well put together sexy young man. The hair came later. Yeah, was Albert Einstein attractive as a teenager? Not teenager, was he attractive as a young man? Sexually attractive. I mean, I'm turned on by Einstein at all ages. I don't discriminate. But are you more turned on by the work that he did or his physical being? No, sometimes I fantasize what it would be like to be in the arms of Einstein.
之前他吸毒吗？吸了很多可卡因。我当时像，我一度相信了你。我觉得他像爱因斯坦那样的人。我觉得他不会吸毒。我觉得他只是护发。来吧，这是真的。我只是在问问题。头发自信。看看吧。你知道我的意思吗？是的，他是个井井有条的性感小伙子。头发后来才长成那样。是的，阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦作为一个青少年有魅力吗？不是年少时，他作为一个年轻人有魅力吗？性吸引力。我的意思是，我对爱因斯坦各个年龄段都有好感。我不分年龄。那么，你是更喜欢他的工作还是他的外表？不，有时候我想象一下在爱因斯坦的怀抱里会是什么感觉。
Could even get that out. Yeah. The arms of Einstein. Yeah, just I want to feel safe. That's a good idea for a rom-com. It'd be a little more serious, like general relativity that space, time can be unified and curved by gravity is an incredibly wild and difficult idea to come up with. It's a really, really difficult thing to imagine. Given how well Newtonian classical mechanics physics works for predicting how stuff happens on Earth, to think like that gravity can get more space-time, both space and time. And it permeates the entire universe. It's a field. It's a really wild idea to come up. It's one human on Earth doing two of that is really, really, really difficult. And it's really sad to me that he didn't get a Nobel Prize for that.
连爱因斯坦也想不到这一点。是的。就是想要感觉安全。这是一个很棒的浪漫喜剧的创意。它可能会更加严肃一些，就像广义相对论中空间、时间可以被引力统一和弯曲一样，这是一个非常疯狂和困难的想法。想象这种物理学可以预测地球上发生的事情，认为引力能够影响到更多的空间和时间。它弥漫整个宇宙，是一种场。这是一个非常疯狂的想法，一个人在地球上完成这两个方面是非常困难的。对我来说，他没有因此获得诺贝尔奖实在是太可惜了。
Was there people saying he was crazy when he was around? Or was he universally recognized as like another G of us? No, I think once the papers came out, he was widely recognized as a true genius. But before that, he wasn't recognized. He had a really difficult. So back now, where does a black hole go? Like after something gets sucked into it? You mean, is it a port up to another place, that kind of thing? Yeah. No. Well, we don't know. It could be that the universe is kind of like Swiss cheese full of black holes. There's something called Hawking radiation where the, because of quantum mechanics, the information leaks out of a black hole. So it is possible to escape a black hole. There's a lot of interesting questions there. I hope we get to the bottom of that. And there's a super massive black hole at the center of our galaxy, which doesn't seem to scare physicists, but it terrifies me. Oh yeah, for sure. Astronomy can be terrifying. Yeah, we're all like orbiting. I mean, we're not just orbiting the sun, but the sun is part of the solar system. It was part of the galaxy. And it's orbiting a gigantic black hole. Have you ever spoke to someone who's been out of space? Jeff Bezos, he flew his own rocket.
在他周围有人说他疯了吗？还是他被普遍认为是我们中另一个天才？不，我觉得一旦论文出来，他被广泛认为是一个真正的天才。但在那之前，他并没有得到认可。他经历了很多困难。所以现在，黑洞会去哪里？比如吸入一些东西之后会发生什么？你是说，它是通往另一个地方的门户吗，那种东西？是的。不。嗯，我们不知道。有可能宇宙就像是满是黑洞的瑞士奶酪。有一种叫做霍金辐射的东西，因为量子力学的原因，信息会从黑洞中泄漏出来。所以可能会从黑洞中逃脱。那里有很多有趣的问题。希望我们能找到答案。我们银河系中心有一个超大质量黑洞，这似乎并不让物理学家感到恐惧，但是它让我感到害怕。哦是的，当然。天文学有时候是令人恐惧的。是的，我们都在轨道上。我是说，我们不仅仅绕着太阳旋转，而太阳是太阳系的一部分，太阳系是银河系的一部分。而银河系又围绕着一个巨大的黑洞。你有没有和一个出过太空的人交谈过？杰夫·贝索斯，他驾驶自己的火箭飞行过。
Wow. That's pretty cool. Astronaut has been to deep space, no. Well, maybe I've spoken to an alien that just hasn't admitted it. I want to do a research paper or like a report about space madness. You know, it's supposed to be this like torturous feeling that you get when you look away from Earth and into the abyss after you've exited Earth's orbit or whatever. Because there's one specific psychiatrist who knows how to deal with space madness. And I want to figure out how to interview people with it. Is this a real thing? Like is there a Wikipedia article on it? Yes, look up space madness treatment. Now I don't trust Wikipedia after what you told me so. And now they think I hate classes. I thought you meant more about the fact that you're isolated out in space that we need social connection and it's difficult. Yeah, I think it's just a feeling of extreme and insignificance that you might get sometimes when you look at the night sky, but it's that times a thousand. It's like an existential void that's created after looking into the abyss and then realizing how small Earth is in the grand scheme. You just start to really have a strange new perception about the pointlessness of existence. I don't need to go to space for that. I mean, only a handful of people have been to space, but I'm sure they're all pretty well off. So this psychiatrist has to be like in the multi-millions. Well, technically we're all in space because Earth isn't space, but so I wonder if you have to go to space to talk to the psychiatrist. Yeah, probably so. Well, technically we're all in space. So that's a boundary he can't have. But not everyone believes that as you've seen from my work probably. You're right. And those are important people that are asking important questions. Yeah. You hitchhiked across US for 70 days when you were 19. Right. Tell the story of that. Well, this sort of connects to what I was talking about with the boredom of school and these common core classes.
哇，太酷了。宇航员已经去过深太空了，是吧。也许我已经和外星人交谈过，只是他们没有承认而已。我想写一篇关于宇航员的空间疯狂的研究论文，或者像一份报告。你知道吗，据说这是一种折磨人的感觉，当你从地球转开目光注视深渊后，就像是你已经离开地球轨道或别的什么。因为有一个特定的精神病医生知道如何处理空间疯狂。我想弄清楚如何采访那些受此影响的人。这是真的吗？有关它的维基百科文章吗？对，去搜索一下"空间疯狂治疗"。现在我不再相信维基百科了，因为你告诉过我，所以我也讨厌上课。我以为你更关心的是我们在空间中的孤立而需要社交联系，这很困难。是的，我觉得这类似于当你仰望夜空时可能会感受到的极度渺小感，但这种感觉大了千倍。这就像是在看向深渊后产生的一种存在虚无感，然后意识到地球在宇宙大局中是多么渺小。你会开始对存在的毫无意义产生一种奇怪的新感知。我没必要去太空就能有这种感觉。我的意思是，只有少数人去过太空，但我敢肯定他们都非常富有。所以这位精神病医生的身价应该是千万级的吧。从技术上讲，我们都在太空中，因为地球就在太空中，但我想知道你是否必须去太空才能和那位精神病医生交谈。是的，可能是这样。嗯，技术上说，我们都在太空中。所以那就是他不能越过的边界。但不是每个人都相信这一点，就像你从我的工作中可能看到的那样。你说得对。他们是在提出重要问题的重要人物。是的。当你19岁时，曾经在美国横穿旅行了70天。对，讲讲那个故事吧。嗯，这和我谈论的关于学校的无聊和那些通用核心课程有点联系。
So after my first year of school where I lived in the dorms, like an old school dormitory building at a school in New Orleans called Loyola University, I wanted to just do something. I felt so bored. I was working for the school newspaper for that whole first year. It was called the Maroon. And I didn't have the ability to write my own stories. Like I had a defer to an older editor and they would give me stories to write about. And they were all about like on-campus happenings. Like the Pope visits New Orleans or glass recycling to be restored in the French Quarter or hoverboards banned on campus due to safety concerns. And it just kind of felt like, all right, I kind of wanted to be a Gonzio reporter. I'm not sure if working my way up to the traditional newsroom hierarchy is gonna get me to that point.
所以在我住在宿舍的第一年学校之后，就像在新奥尔良的一所名为洛约拉大学的学校的一个古老的宿舍楼里，我想要做点什么。我觉得无聊极了。我在那整整一年里为学校的报纸工作。它叫《栗色》。但我没有能力写自己的故事。我得顺从一个更年长的编辑，他们会给我一些故事来写。而且他们都是关于校园发生的事情。比如教皇访问新奥尔良，或者法国区恢复玻璃回收，或者因安全问题禁止在校园使用悬浮板等等。我觉得，好吧，我想成为一个冒险记者。我不确定通过一步步向传统新闻编辑室的层级晋升能让我达到那个目标。
So I started reading a bunch of old hobo literature, you know, like post World War II, vagabonding stuff. And there was this book called Vagabonding in America by an old hobo Ed Byrne. And I read this and it just basically, obviously some of it was outdated. They had stuff and they're like the hobo code, like, oh, this moniker on the side of offense means this person has free soup or something like that. They didn't have stuff like that. But what it did tell me, it told me about train stop towns, like Dunsmore and, you know, places in Montana where there was a friendly attitude toward drifters and that still persists from the 60s and 70s to this day.
所以我开始阅读一堆古老的流浪汉文学作品，你知道的，像二战后的，流浪汉的东西。有一本书叫《在美国流浪》是一位老流浪汉艾德·伯恩写的。我读了这本书，基本上，显然有些内容已经过时了。他们有一些东西，比如流浪汉密码，比如，哦，墙边的记号代表这个人可以获得免费汤之类的。他们并没有这种东西。但它告诉了我一些东西，告诉了我关于火车停靠小镇，比如邓斯莫尔和蒙大拿州的一些地方，那里对漂泊者持有友好态度，这种态度从60年代和70年代一直延续到今天。
Even though, in my opinion, movies like Texas, Chantel, Massacre have ruined hitchhiking culture in America because now everyone thinks you're gonna, you know, decapitate them if they pick you up. So after my final day of courses at Loyola, I literally left all of my belongings inside my dorm and took the street car to the Greyhound station, got a one-way ticket to Baton Rouge. And I was like, I'm gonna hitchhike across the whole country back to Seattle with no money. And that was the plan and it worked out. I love it. I traveled across the United States before in similar kind of plan.
尽管在我看来，像《德克萨斯，香特尔，大屠杀》这样的电影已经破坏了美国的搭便车文化，因为现在每个人都认为如果他们搭便车会被斩首。所以在洛约拉大学上完最后一天课之后，我简直把所有的东西都留在宿舍里，坐上有轨电车去了灰狗客运站，买了一张单程到巴吞鲁日的车票。我想，我要用没有钱的方式搭便车穿越整个国家回到西雅图。这就是计划，而且实现了。我喜欢这样。以前我用类似的计划横穿了美国。
Because you weren't- Were you on the silver dog? So it's the Greyhound bus. Greyhound is pretty nice. That's a step above hitchhiking. That's way better than hitchhiking. Hitchhiking, Greyhound Amtrak. Airline. Amtrak, no, that's the leadest. What's in between Greyhound and Amtrak? A car. That's what it is. Yeah, it's a car. A shitty car. Okay, cool. Yeah, I lived in a shitty car. You lived in a car? Yeah, when I was driving across the United States. Solo? With a friend, some solo. And I would have, I would eat cold soup. I love cold soup. What I like is the cold chickpeas and I can. So you get the water out and just dump them in your mouth. Those are good beef jerky, kind bars. Kind bars are really good for the road.
因为你不是- 你是坐在银色狗上吗？所以这是灰狗巴士。灰狗非常不错。这比搭便车要好。比搭便车好太多了。搭便车、灰狗、Amtrak、航空公司。Amtrak，不，那太奢侈了。灰狗和Amtrak之间有什么？汽车。就是汽车。是一辆破烂的车。好的，很酷。嗯，我曾经住在一辆破烂的车里。你住在车里？是的，我在横穿美国的时候。独自一人？和朋友一起，有时候是独自。我会吃冷汤。我喜欢冷汤。我喜欢冷鹰嘴豆和我。你把水倒掉，然后把它们扔进嘴里。那些好牛肉干，酸果仁棒。酸果仁棒在路上非常好。
Yeah, I mean, all of that is great, but too much of it is not great. Like too much cold soup. Not great, too much beef jerky. So what was the route you took? Was it Chicago across or was it Philadelphia across? Philadelphia across. To LA or where? San Diego's will end up, but it was this exacting. Went up to Chicago and then all the way down to Texas. So you went Philly through Appalachia up to the Midwest. Yep. Did you cut over, like through the Southwest down to San Diego? No, no, no, went straight down to Texas. All the way down to the West. So like.
是的，我的意思是，所有这些都很棒，但太多了就不好了。就像太多的冷汤，不好；太多的牛肉干也不好。你们走的是哪条路线？是从芝加哥横穿还是从费城横穿？是从费城横穿的。到洛杉矶还是哪里？最后到了圣迭戈，但路线很具体。先到了芝加哥然后一路南下到德克萨斯。所以你们是从费城穿过阿巴拉契亚山到中西部去的？是的。你们是穿过西南部直接到圣迭戈吗？不，不，不，我们是一路直接南下到德克萨斯，一直一直一直一直一直一直到西部。像。
But did you cut from Texas West through New Mexico and Arizona to get to San Diego? Yeah. That is the best road trip place. Interstate 40, like Albuquerque Flagstaff, Vegas, Kingman, the Mojave Desert, Yuma, doesn't get better. Yeah, I mean, in your kids, so you don't care. And you would throw in caution to the wind. I met some crazy, crazy people. It gives me some sanity. Like whenever I'm feeling kind of out of control or, you know, like bummed out, I just remembered that the road is still out there. The open road never goes anywhere. And it's kind of like a, I see like an invisible door in the corner of the room all the time that makes me more comfortable. Cause I'm like, hey, at the end of the day, bummed out, I can go hit the road. And I'm sure there's going to be a fun time ahead.
你是不是从得克萨斯州一路往西穿过新墨西哥和亚利桑那到达圣迭戈的？是的。那是最棒的公路旅行地点。穿越40号州际公路，像是阿尔布开克基、弗拉格斯塔夫、拉斯维加斯、金曼、莫哈韦沙漠、尤马，没有比这更好的了。是的，我的意思是，你有孩子，所以你不在乎。你就会豁出去了。我遇到一些疯狂的人。这让我感到有些神智清醒。就好像每当我感觉有点失控或者心情低落的时候，我只需记得路还在那里。一直通向远方的道路从未消失。就好像我一直能看到房间角落里的一个无形的门，让我感到更加舒适。因为我知道，无论何时，当我感觉沮丧时，我随时可以出发上路。我相信前方总会有美好的时光等着我。
Yeah, get that Greyhound ticket and go. I would say silver dog half, because sometimes I got to ride the dog when no one will pick me up. There's some places in the country where no one's going to pick you up. Yeah. Kansas, Missouri, they're not going to do it. Hey, if you're not charming enough, you thought about that? I was 19, fresh, clean-shaven. Yeah. I was pretty charming, I'd say. All right. But the older you get, the harder it is to hitchhike because they think you're like an escaped convict or some type of psycho wanderer. And some of these people are like, what we call punishers, people who never stop talking. And so they see someone hitchhiking and they're like, yes, I'm going to talk at this person. And you can tell they're either-wide, they're like, what's up? And you're like, oh shit. So it's six hours of just like, oh cool, nice. That's rough. Yeah, yeah. You're right, you're right. I like people that are comfortable in silence. Yeah. But then that also raises the question, are they about to kill me? You know what I mean? I think that's a you problem, not a.
没问题，买张灰狗巴士票然后动身吧。有时候我得骑巴士因为没有人愿意让我搭便车。在这个国家有一些地方是没有人会停下来接你的。对，堪萨斯，密苏里，他们是不会停下来的。嘿，如果你不够迷人，你有想过吗？我19岁，一表人才，剃了个干净的胡子。对，我可以说我当时相当迷人。但是你越老，搭便车就越困难，因为人们会以为你是逃犯或者是某种疯狂的漫游者。有些人我们管他们叫“折磨者”，从不停止说话。所以当他们看到有人在搭便车，他们就会想，“是的，我要和这个人聊天”。你可以看出他们会不停说，你心里会想，“哦，糟糕了”。然后就是六个小时像这样，哦很酷，不错。太难熬了。对，对。你说得对，你说得对。我喜欢那些能享受沉默的人。但是这也引发了一个问题，难道他们要杀了我吗？你懂我的意思吗？我觉得这是你的问题，不是别人的问题。
You know what's funny is almost everybody who picked me up when I was hitchhiking, it was like a day laborer. Like, it was almost all Mexican day laborer who picked me up. Oh, interesting. Because I think that like in some places down there, that's a typical thing to do. Hitchhike to work. A lot of people don't have cars, but they still have to get to their jobs. So a lot of people ask me, hey, where should I drop you off? Where's your job at? And I'm like, my job is to explore and they were down with it. See, like for me, it was really easy because you just say like, I'm traveling across the United States. And I think people love that idea. And they want to help. They romanticize it. Because they also have that invisible door. Everybody has that invisible door, I just want to go. So you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I mean, I don't think. It can anchor you a bit just to remind you that every pattern that I've fallen into is voluntary and it's from my own stability and mental health.
你知道有趣的是，几乎每个接我搭便车的人都像是一个临时工。几乎所有接我搭便车的人都是墨西哥的临时工。哦，很有趣。因为我觉得在那里的一些地方，这是一种典型的做法。搭便车去工作。很多人没有车，但他们仍然需要去上班。所以有很多人问我，嘿，我应该把你放在哪里呢？你的工作在哪里？我说，我的工作是探险，他们接受了。你知道，对我来说很容易，因为你只需要说，我正在横穿美国。我觉得人们喜欢这个想法。他们愿意帮忙。他们浪漫化了它。因为他们也有那扇看不见的门。每个人都有那扇看不见的门，我只是想走出去。你知道我在说什么吗？是的，我是说，我认为这可能会让你稳固一点，提醒你我陷入的每个模式都是自愿的，都是为了我的稳定和心理健康。
Well, that's why I'm like renting everything and I'm gonna be sure that tomorrow I can just go. I gave away everything I own twice in my life. Just very like, I'm ready to go tonight. Let's go. What's the hardest item you've had to part with in this experience? There's nothing. You've never had a material object that was really hard to let go of?
嗯，这就是为什么我像租用一切，我会确保明天只需离开。我一生中两次放弃了我拥有的一切。我很愿意，我今晚就准备好出发。让我们走。在这个经历中，你最难割舍的物品是什么？没有。你从来没有一件真的很难放手的物质物品吗？
So you give that watch to somebody if it meant anything. No, this, you're right. You're right. That's probably the only, I've never had to let go of that though. That's the only thing I own. This doesn't mean a lot to me, but they're everything else. But then again, listen, because okay, this watch is given to me by Rogan. This has become a close friend. But like, whenever I romanticize the notion that this watch means a lot to me, it means like, oh my God, I'll just get you the same one again. Yeah. I was like, God damn it. It's a pretty sick ass gift though. Yeah, it's pretty sick. I'm not usually a gift guy, but you know, when somebody you look up to kind of gives you a thing, it's a nice little symbol of that relationship. So it's nice. But other than that, no. But even this, like whatever, the relationship is what matters. The human is what matters, not the.
如果这个手表对你有意义，你就送给别人吧。不，你说得对。你说得对。这可能是我唯一的，我从来没有放手过的东西。这是我唯一拥有的东西。这对我来说不是很重要，但其他东西都很重要。但是再说一次，因为，好吧，这个手表是罗根送给我的。他已经成为了一个亲密的朋友。但是，每当我浪漫化地认为这个手表对我很重要时，我就会想，哦，天哪，我只会再给你买一个一样的。是啊。我就像，该死，这是一个非常棒的礼物。是的，非常棒。我通常不是个爱收礼物的人，但你知道，当一个你敬仰的人送给你一样东西时，这是那段关系的一个美好的象征。所以很好。但除此之外，没有了。但即使这个，关系才是最重要的。人才是最重要的，而不是物品。
I agree 100%. You had something like this? Not really. I mean, there was a hard drive that I lost that had all of my childhood pictures on it and stuff like that that I think about all the time, because I left it on a train. And like, certain memories you think about it, you just get pissed off and just think to myself, someone has that somewhere. I have dreams about reuniting with the hard drive. You and Hunter Biden have the smoke crack. I don't think he wants to reunite with that one.
我完全同意。你有类似的经历吗？并不是。我的意思是，有一块硬盘丢了，里面装着我所有童年照片之类的东西，我一直想起来。因为我把它留在了火车上。有些记忆让你想起来很生气，就会想，有人可能拿走了。我做梦都想再见到那块硬盘。你和亨特·拜登都曾吸过毒。我觉得他不想再见到那块硬盘。
Okay. Dude, it's crazy. You know, all he did was smoke crack, right? Are there more stuff going on? I think there's prostitutes involved. Oh, okay, whatever. I think you got to look into it. I think I have to look into it too. I don't know. Was CareWack, a Jack CareWack, and somebody that wasn't an inspiration at all, in this road trip? Did you even know who that is? The B generation all this? I didn't know who it was. And then after I did the.
好的。伙计，太疯狂了。你知道，他只是吸毒，对吧？还有别的事情发生吗？我觉得跟妓女有关。哦，好吧，随便。我觉得你得调查一下。我也得调查一下。我不知道。CareWack是谁，杰克·凯韦克，还有一个在这次旅行中一点都没有启发的人吗？你知道他是谁吗？B一代这些？我不知道它是谁。然后我之后这样做。
Ultimately, I wrote a book about my hitchhiking experience years later. And everyone was like, have you read on the road? And then on the road, I probably heard the title of that book every day at least 10 times for two years. And I'm sure CareWack is a great guy. I mean, I just don't. I'm not too familiar with the beat generation. That's a great book. It's a. You read it or no?
最后，几年后我写了一本关于我搭便车经历的书。每个人都会问我，你读过《在路上》吗？然后《在路上》，我可能每天至少听到那本书的标题十次，持续两年。我确信凯尔韦克是个不错的人。我是说，我只是不太熟悉垮掉的一代。那是一本好书。你读过吗？
I refuse to read it. People even have gifted it to me and been like, hey man, you're gonna love this one. And I'm like, is that on the road? If I honestly, people have given me a book with wrapping paper on it. And they're like, this is Reddit rally.
我拒绝阅读它。甚至有人送给我并说，嘿伙计，你会喜欢这本书的。我会说，这本书是不是“在路上”？老实说，有人甚至给我包上包装纸的书。他们说，这是Reddit集拉力赛。
I was like, that's fucking on the road, isn't it? Give you a different cover. Yeah, no, I'm like, anything but that. But I'm sure it's a great book. It's just the comparison thing drives me crazy. Respect, respect to CareWack. Would never speak down on the whole. Anyone in the beat generation. What are some interesting moments you remember from that? Little 70 days.
我当时就想，这太他妈的普遍了吧？给你个不同的封面。是啊，不，我什么都可以，就是不要那个。但我相信那是一本很棒的书。只是比较让我疯狂。对CareWack尊重，尊重整个人。绝不会贬低整个“一代人”。你还记得那些有趣的时刻吗？那些70天。
Man, there was so much. I mean, getting mistaken for a gay prostitute on my first hitchhiking ride. I can see that. And Louisiana was pretty funny. Where did you come from and where did you go? Well, I mean, the journey began in Baton Rouge. And the first destination was Houston, which is about four and a half hours west on Interstate 10.
哥们，发生了好多事。我的第一次搭便车时被误认为同性恋妓女，这太糟糕了。路易斯安那州也挺好笑的。你从哪里来，又要去哪里？嗯，我是从巴吞鲁日开始的旅程。第一个目的地是休斯顿，从这里往西约四个半小时就能到。
So, I mean, Crowley, Louisiana, I'm on the side of the road. And I guess this was a cruising truck stop. It was known for being a place where male lot lizards would go to procure clients. And I was there. Lot lizards are. It's a derogatory term and trucker culture for a prostitute who hangs out at the loves or a pilot flying J. Large interstate truck stops.
所以，我是说，我当时在路边的克劳利，路易斯安那州。我猜这是一个巡游卡车站。它以男性“草地蜥蜴”前往以寻找客户而闻名。而我就在那里。"草地蜥蜴"是一个卡车司机文化中对在洛夫斯或飞行J等大型州际公路卡车站出没的妓女的贬义称呼。
Now, trucker culture, as it once was, is pretty much finished because of the live stream cameras they have inside of the trucks now. So, you can't snort suit a fit or pick up anybody. You can't even pick up a hitchhiker or you get fired. Killed all the romance. Yeah, definitely. The old school outlaw trucker lifestyle, unless you're an owner operator, who's not even in a union, which is like a real cowboy-weighted hall loads, you can't do that.
现在，卡车司机文化基本上已经消失了，因为他们现在在卡车里安装了直播摄像头。所以，你无法在里面吸毒或搭载任何人。你甚至不能搭便车，否则就会被开除。这杀死了所有浪漫情调。是的，绝对是的。老派的无政府主义卡车司机生活方式，除非你是一个车主操作员，并且不隶属于工会，像是真正的牛仔-负载大厅，你是不能那样做的。
You were mistaken for a lot lizards. We were mistaken for a lot lizard by a small man from Honduras with a spiky leather jacket covered in studs. Didn't speak any English, but I thought he was just a nice guy. And then he pulled over at a. There's private theaters in the south where they have confessional booths set up and they have three channels and people go in there and.
你被误认为是揽客的妓女。我们被一位身穿装满铆钉的尖刺皮夹克的洪都拉斯小个子误认为是揽客的妓女。他不会说英语，但我以为他只是个好人。然后他在某处停下车。南方有一些私人影院设有忏悔亭，有三个频道，人们会进去……。
It's porn? Yeah, people go in there and, you know, please, yeah. That's right, uh-huh. So, I thought he was taking me to one of those. I was like, all right, cool, man. Yeah, like, you know, like, this guy wants to go jerk off. I'm just gonna wait in the car. It's all good. I don't discriminate. But then I was like, he buys a booth for me. And I'm like, okay, you know.
这是色情场所？是的，人们进去，你懂的，寻欢解乏。没错，是的。所以，我以为他带我去那种地方。我说，好啊，兄弟。就像，你知道，这家伙想去撸管。我就在车里等等，没问题。我不歧视。但后来他给我买了一间包房。我说，好吧，你知道的。
It's not really in the mood to watch porn with this random guy. So he gets in the same booth as me. And he starts jerking off right next to me. And I'm like, oh man, like. I don't think this is chill. I'm like, dude, can you stop? I'm like, can you stop jacking off? And he's like, what do you mean? Like, I thought this is what you wanna do. Like, I have money for you. Like, what's that? And I was like, oh no, I'm just a regular guy. He was super cool about it. He started laughing and he was like, oh, my bad, man. I thought you were, you know, selling something. I said, no, and he said, oh, it's all good. And he gave me a ride all the way to Houston.
我当时真的没心情和这个陌生人一起看色情视频。结果他也进了同一个小隔间。他就在我旁边打飞机。我当时就感觉不对劲。我对他说，哥们，你能停一下吗？可以停止自慰吗？他说，你什么意思？我以为这就是你想要的。我有钱给你。我说明天，不好意思，我只是个普通人，他很酷地笑了笑，说，哦，我搞错了，我以为你在卖东西。我说不是啊，然后他说，没事，我顺路搭你去休斯顿。
That's great. Yeah, we talked about anything except that for the rest of the car ride. It's great. There's just rolled with it. Oh, sorry about that. It could have been, I had about a foot in the house. Honestly, guys, I wasn't too scared. I also had like a knife in my pocket, but I didn't wanna stab him, especially not at a place like that. And you were still, that didn't like leave a bad taste in your mouth. Well, I figured that can happen again. It can't keep happening. So I was like, all right, if I got this out of the way the first ride, the following rides are gonna be spectacular. Yeah, I mean, who among us have not been mistaken for a lot of lizards? It's a fact you heard here first. What else? What are some interesting, beautiful people that you've met a long time ago?
太棒了。是的，我们在车上剩下的时间里谈论了其他东西。真是太好了。我就这样随波逐流了。哦，对不起。这本来可能很危险，我当时已经准备好了脚步进屋。老实说，伙计们，我并不害怕。我口袋里还有一把刀，但我不想刺他，尤其不想在那样的地方。而你们还好吗？那件事没有让你们感到不愉快吗？我认为那种情况可能会再次发生，但不能一直发生。所以我说，好吧，如果我在第一次坐车时就出了这么一出，后面的车程一定更加美好。是啊，我想我们谁都曾被误认为是蜥蜴过吧？这是个你们第一次听说的事实。还有呢？你们曾经遇到过哪些有趣、美丽的人？
Well, you used to have a couch surfing to find places to stay in the couch surfing. Now you can only submit like five couch surfing requests a day unless you're a premium member, which means you also host people. Couch surfing is still wrong. Yeah, yeah, totally. Oh, nice. But it's evolved obviously into a different thing. Airbnb is the kind of competitor to that, right? Couch surfing is free though. Right. So couch surfing, they call it like the CS community. So basically there'd be these like couch surfing super hosts in different cities. Like there was one in Santa Fe, this firefighter dude who had like 15 other couch surfers there, chilling. Nice. So I would do it everywhere. A lot of them were Catholics, you know. So was there a way of giving back? A lot of them were nudists. And so I didn't realize that there's a small little section at the bottom of someone's couch surfing profile that says clothing optional. Yes. And that means if you go there, I thought it meant like it's cool if you walk to the bathroom and you're underwear.
嗯，过去你曾经利用沙发冲浪找地方住宿。现在除非你是高级会员，否则一天只能提交五个沙发冲浪请求，这意味着你也需要接待别人。沙发冲浪还是错的。是的，完全是。哦，不错。但显然它已经发展成了另一种形式。Airbnb是它的竞争对手，对吧？不过沙发冲浪是免费的。对。因此，他们称之为CS社区。基本上在不同城市会有这些沙发冲浪的超级主人。比如在圣菲有个消防员，他那里有大约15个其他的沙发冲浪者在那里聚会。不错。所以我到处都会尝试。很多人是天主教徒。所以这是一种回馈的方式吗？很多人是裸体主义者。但我并没有意识到在某人的沙发冲浪简介的底部有一个小小的部分写着“自选衣着”。是的。这意味着如果你去那里，我以为那只是说走去洗手间可以穿内衣就好。
No, if you go there, everyone's going to be butt naked. So I made that mistake a few times. Not that I'm anti-nudist, but I didn't want to, you know, I wasn't ready to take that leap of faith. And yeah, it was just great. Couch surfing hosts were amazing. That was just great. It was this constant thing where I felt like, wow, people are so welcoming. I'm not having to pay them a dollar for this experience. Yeah, I love couch surfing. For like, again, for me being an introvert, just crashing on a person's couch, being essentially forced into a great conversation is great. Yeah. The one thing that gets exhausting about hitchhiking is constantly thanking people. You know, being in like sort of constant, superficial gratitude everywhere all the time. Like, oh, thanks for letting me sleep on your couch. Thanks for the food. Yeah.
不，如果你去那里，每个人都会全裸。所以我犯过那个错误几次。不是说我反对裸体主义者，只是我不想，你知道的，我还没准备好做出那样的信仰飞跃。是的，那太棒了。沙发冲浪的主人们太棒了。那简直太棒了。在那里我总觉得，哇，人们是如此热情。我不用为这种体验支付一分钱。是的，我热爱沙发冲浪。对于我这种内向的人来说，只需在别人沙发上睡一觉，然后被迫进入一个美好的对话中是很棒的。唯一让搭便车让人筋疲力尽的事情是不断地感谢别人。你知道的，处处都是表面上的感激。比如，“谢谢你让我在你的沙发上睡觉。谢谢你的食物。”是的。
Part of the reason I wanted to live in an RV later in life is to avoid having to constantly live in this like, thanks so much type of frequency, cause it's exhausting to constantly, but hey man, thanks. I think the shallowness of that interactions exhausting, not just the, not the thanks. Yeah, it was a true favor. Of course, I love giving people gratitude for that. But just this thing where everyone who picks you up, you get eight rides a day, you're like thanking eight people a day, like the second coming of Jesus. You start to feel a little bit debased. What'd you learn about people from that journey? That's your first time really kind of going into it. The American public is just so kind overall. I mean, they're so like embracing, depending on who you are.
我晚年想住房车的原因之一是为了避免不断生活在这种“感谢你”的频率中，因为不断这样真的很累，但嘿，谢谢。我觉得那种浅薄的互动令人感到疲惫，而不只是那个“谢谢”。是的，这是真正的恩惠。我当然很乐意感激别人。但是每天有八个人搭你车，你要感谢八个人，就像第二次耶稣再临一样，你开始感到有点被贬低。从这次旅程中你学到了什么关于人？这是你第一次真正深入其中。整体来说，美国公众非常友善。我是说，他们非常包容，取决于你是谁。
And specifically though, the Christian family people of the US who drive in many vans and have that fish sticker on the back where it's like, Jesus fish and then they have the family sticker, you know, where each member of the family is a stick figure. Those people never picked me up and would flip me off with their whole family. Sometimes they would throw full doctor peppers at me as a family while I stood on the side of the road. As a family together. They would yell shit like, go to hell hippie when I was on the side of the road. And so it's weird that the most charitable Christian, American family values people never gave me any charity or even conversation. They were antagonizing me and saw me as like a hippie left over from the 60s when you needed to go to work, go to Vietnam. I don't get it.
然而特别要提到的是，在美国开着很多货车，后挂着鱼符号和家庭贴纸的基督教家庭人群，你知道那种鱼符号上面画着耶稣的鱼，然后家庭贴纸上每个成员都是一个棒人。那些人从来不停下来带我，而且还整个家庭对我比中指，有时他们甚至当整家人一起向我扔满是汽水的罐子，而我却站在路边。他们把我当作嬉皮士，一起喊着像"去地狱吧，嬉皮士"。很奇怪最慈善的基督教家庭人群从不给我任何慈善或甚至交谈。他们对我进行挑衅，视我为60年代的嬉皮士遗留物，那个时候你需要去工作去越南。我不明白。
But the people who really extended a hand to me is people on the margins. People working on seasonal visas, people whose cars have, you know, less than a quarter tank left, people struggling with addiction, who saw me struggling, or at least they thought that I was because they assumed I was hitchhiking, not out of adventure, but because I had no car. And we're willing to sacrifice their day almost sometimes to take me exactly where I needed to go. That's beautiful, man.
但是真正给予我援手的是那些处境困难的人。那些持季节性签证的人，那些汽车油箱只有不到四分之一油的人，那些为了战胜上瘾而努力的人，他们看到我在挣扎，或者至少他们认为我在挣扎，因为他们以为我是在搭便车，不是出于冒险，而是因为我没有车。他们愿意牺牲自己的时间，有时甚至将我送到我需要去的地方。这太美好了。
I've had similar kind of experience that people were struggling the most of the ones who are willing to help you when you're struggling. Yeah. There's people like in religious context and other kind of communities that just judge others because they've kind of constructed a value system where they're better than others because of that value system. And that actually has a cascade that forces you to actually be kind of a dick. Yeah, I never thought about that way. It's so true.
我有过类似的经历，就是那些愿意帮助你的人，在自己遇到困难时反而最艰难。是的。有些人就像在宗教背景和其他类型的群体中，他们只是因为建立了一个价值体系，就会去评判他人，认为自己比他人更优越。这实际上会引发一个连锁反应，导致你变得有点刻薄。是的，我从没想过会这样。这真的太真实了。
Do you think about morality and religion a lot? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been to certain parts of the world where religion is really a big part of life. I'm just always skeptical about tribes of people that believe a thing and that believe they're better than others because they believe that thing. That could be nations, that could be religions. Yeah.
你是否经常思考道德和宗教？是的。是的。是的。我去过世界某些地方，宗教真的是生活的重要组成部分。我总是怀疑那些相信某一件事情并认为自己比其他人更优越的部落。可能是国家，可能是宗教。是的。
I mean, in Ukraine and Russia, I was seeing a lot of hate towards the other. Yeah. And that hate, I'm always very skeptical of because it could be used by powerful people to direct that hate just so the powerful people can maintain power and get money, that's kind of stuff. It's a scary thing to see how easy it is for high up political people to mobilize the hate of just the average working person and can almost convince them to sabotage their own countrymen who they share more in common with than the politician they look up to just to advance the agenda of one party. That's what we're seeing now. Are there some places in America that are better than others? Can you speak negatively of like a four mentioned Joe Rogan, talk shit about Connecticut, nonstop. Is there another, can you pick a region in the United States you can talk shit about?
在乌克兰和俄罗斯，我看到了很多对彼此的仇恨。是的。我对这种仇恨总是持怀疑态度，因为它可能被权力人士利用，激起仇恨只是为了让权力人士保持统治和获取金钱之类的东西。看到高层政治人士如此轻易地激发普通劳动者的仇恨，并几乎说服他们去破坏与之有更多共同点的同胞，而不是崇拜的政客，以推进某个政党的议程，这是一件可怕的事情。这就是我们现在看到的情况。在美国有一些地方比其他地方更好吗？你可以批评前面提到的乔·罗根，不停地抨击康涅狄克州。那么，你能挑选一个在美国可以抨击的地区吗？
Talk shit about? Oh, for sure. Or from that experience, let's just narrow it down to that. Oh, Colorado. Oh, geez. Really? Yes. I know so many people that love Colorado. Dude, Dallas, Denver, I used to think Phoenix sucks but I love Phoenix now. The way they build these cities to just be so circular and massive, it's just like stopping. You don't like circles? I like grids, man. Oh, you're a grid guy. Manhattan, New Orleans, San Francisco. What is it about grids that bring out the worst in people?
说坏话？当然。或者根据那个经历，我们只是把话题缩小到那里。哦，科罗拉多。哦，天哪。真的吗？是的。我知道很多人喜欢科罗拉多。兄弟，达拉斯，丹佛，我以前觉得凤凰城很糟糕，但现在我喜欢凤凰城了。他们建造这些城市的方式是如此的圆形和巨大，就像停滞不前一样。你不喜欢圆形吗？我喜欢格子。哦，你是个格子迷。曼哈顿，新奥尔良，旧金山。是什么让格子设计激起人们最坏的一面呢？
Circles is wherever we just, there's a. Everyone's just vibing out. Yeah. The grid gets people locked in and hateful. I don't know, man, but. I've never heard anyone talk shit about Colorado, I have to say. It's kind of refreshing. Yeah. It provides a necessary balance for the Colorado Wikipedia page. Yeah, Oregon too. I got problems with Oregon. Oregon. Yeah. Well, here's the issue. You have, and I don't like just calling people racist cause it's kind of like a two dimensional insult but you have the most racist state but the most psychotic anarchist city in the middle of it. What is going on up there? How did this happen? The yin and the yang is so extreme that there must be something in the, in the willamid. What do you have against anarchism?
圈子就在我们身边，无处不在。每个人都在放松。网格让人陷入困境并充满仇恨。我不知道，但是。我从未听到有人对科罗拉多说过坏话，我不得不说。这有点令人耳目一新。是的。它为科罗拉多维基百科页面提供了必要的平衡。是的，俄勒冈也是。我对俄勒冈有疑虑。俄勒冈。是的。这是问题所在。我不想随便说别人种族主义者，因为这有点像是一种二维的侮辱，但你们有最种族主义的州，却有一个最疯狂的无政府主义城市在其中心。那里到底发生了什么？这是怎么回事？阴阳之间的平衡如此极端，一定有什么原因。你对无政府主义有什么意见？
I have nothing, I used to be an anarchist. When I was in eighth grade, I had this friend named Mads who was part of a group called Seattle Solidarity, which is like an antifa precursor. So I grew up like going to black block protests and I mean, there was a particular shooting. The murder of John Williams, who was a Native American woodcarver in downtown Seattle. He got killed by a Seattle police officer named Ian Burke. John Williams was carving a pipe from a wood block with a pocket knife. He's deaf in one ear. Officer pulls a gun on him and says, put it down. He doesn't hear him, he shoots him six seconds later.
我曾经是一名无政府主义者，现在一无所有。当我读八年级的时候，我有一个叫马兹的朋友，他是一个名为西雅图团结的团体的成员，类似于安提法的前身。因此，我在一些黑衣示威中长大，我是说，有一次发生了一起特别的枪击案，就是约翰·威廉姆斯的谋杀案，他是一名在西雅图市中心的土著美国木雕刻工。他被一个名叫伊恩·伯克的西雅图警察开枪杀死。约翰·威廉姆斯正在用一把口袋刀从一块木块上雕刻一根烟斗。他一只耳朵聋。警官拿枪指着他说，放下刀。他没有听到，六秒后被击中。
So that police involved shooting is what instantly turned me into like a very critical of law enforcement kind of person when I was super young. And so as someone who used to see this guy who got murdered was a 55 year old man. I used to see him around Pike Place where my mom lived. It's a public market in downtown. That to me put me into the anarchist political sphere because just channeling the anger of that experience and the officer got no charges by the way. You can look up the video, it's horrific. You know, and it didn't get reported. The officer I'm pretty sure is still active duty. And so it's like situations like that early in life channeled me toward political extremism. But I grew up to realize how incompatible that an artistic worldview is with reality and with the American society. It can only exist in a small little chamber. You know, you can't apply that to the industrial heartland of the country.
所以警察涉及的枪击事件让我在很年轻的时候立即变成了一个对执法部门非常批判的人。作为一个过去经常看到被谋杀的那个家伙的人，他是一个55岁的男人，我过去常常在我妈妈住的派克市场附近见到他。那是市中心的一个公共市场。这让我投入了无政府主义政治领域，因为我只是在传达那种经历的愤怒，而那名警官没有被起诉，顺便一提，你可以查看视频，非常可怕。你知道，这没有被报导。我相当确定那名警官仍在执勤。所以，像这样在生命早期遇到的情况将我引向了政治极端主义。但是我后来意识到，艺术世界观与现实以及美国社会是不相容的。它只能存在于一个小小的空间中。你知道，你不能将它应用于国家的工业中心。
And I think also anarchism, so I've gotten to know Michael Malice who's written quite a bit about anarchism. And it's also exists as a body of literature about different philosophical notions that kind of resist the state, the ever expanding state in different kinds of ways. And it's always nice to have extreme thought experiments to understand what kind of society we want to build. But implementing it may not necessarily be a good idea. Yeah, I mean, Emma Goldman, I'm a huge fan of her writing. Also the prison abolitionists that are associated with the anarchist movement, Angela Davis, Ruth Wilson Gilmore. All that stuff, influential. I still adhere to a lot of those principles when talking about stuff like radical prison reform and stuff like that. But just, I drifted more toward having a more open mind as I got older. Extremism implemented in almost all of its forms is probably going to cause a lot of suffering. Yeah.
我也认为无政府主义，所以我开始了解迈克尔·马利斯，他写了很多关于无政府主义的东西。它也存在着一系列关于不同哲学概念的文学作品，这些概念抵制着不同方式下日益扩张的国家。拥有极端的思想实验总是有助于我们理解我们想建造何种社会。但实施起来可能不是一个好主意。是的，我是艾玛·戈德曼的铁杆粉丝。还有与无政府主义运动相关的废除监狱制度者，如安吉拉·戴维斯、鲁思·威尔逊·吉尔莫尔。所有这些都很有影响力。在谈论激进的监狱改革等问题时，我仍坚持这些原则。但随着年龄增长，我更加倾向于保持更加开放的心态。几乎所有形式的极端主义实施都可能导致许多痛苦。是的。
You worked as a doorman on the, I could say legendary bourbon street in New Orleans. Where you saw what you described as, this might be another Wikipedia quote, by the way. But this is where I do my research. It's just say, hellish scenes. Hellish scenes and quotes. Wikipedia is damn right about that. All right, thank you. That's a win. That's one in the win column. So yeah, tell the story of that. What's it like to work on bourbon street? What kind of stuff did you see? I mean, I was a host at a fine dining restaurant that on the corner of bourbon and Iberville. So that's the first street, if you go from Canal Street onto the quarter. So this is like across from like a daiquiri spot. It's the middle of the tourist corridor of New Orleans. And the spot was kind of like, and kind of a tourist trap, it was called Bourbon House. The food was good. Chef Eric, I don't want you to see this and think you don't make good and dewy sausages, but it was overpriced. And so I had to, we had to maintain this like fine dining facade on a street where almost everyone is like throwing up, fighting or is half naked.
你曾在新奥尔良著名的波旁街做门卫。你描述过看到的景象，或许这可以算是维基百科的另一条引用，不过我就是在那里做研究。可以说那里是地狱般的场景。维基百科就是对的。好吧，谢谢。这是一次胜利。这是一个胜利。那么，告诉一下那段经历。在波旁街工作是什么感觉？你看到了什么？我在波旁街和伊博维尔交界处一家精致餐厅当过主持。从市运河街进入法国区，这是第一条街。这就像是对面的一个果汁酒吧。这是新奥尔良的旅游走廊中心。那家餐厅有点像旅游陷阱，叫波旁之家。食物很好。厨师埃里克，我不希望你看到这个以为你做的烤香肠不好，但价格有点贵。我们必须在几乎所有人都在呕吐、打架或半裸的街道上维持这种精致餐厅的外观。
So there was this policy. We had these giant glass windows next to the tables. So if you're eating at a bourbon house, you can look out onto Bourbon Street and you can see as you're dining a full panoramic view of all these partiers, throwing beads, boobs, all that. We had this policy where if we're serving someone, we can't look onto Bourbon Street if something crazy is happening. So there's a fight or something like that. We can't look, right? So there is a dude, I remember I'm fucking serving a table. There's a dude in a Batman mask, butt naked with 12 pairs of beads, just jerking it. Yeah. Back to jerking it. He's jerking it, right? And every single person at the restaurant's looking out there like, look, they're taking pictures. And the manager, Steven, looks at me, he's like, keep your fucking eyes on the table. Some serving these people, you know what I'm like, you like red beans and rice? Or would you like some Creole fucking doughnut? And there's just this dude and ultimately the manager went out and escorted him further down Bourbon Street. But you know, I would get off work at around midnight every night and that was when Bourbon Street is at its most chaotic.
所以有这样一项政策。我们的餐桌旁边有这些巨大的玻璃窗户。所以如果你在波本酒屋吃饭，你可以看到波本街，你可以看到所有这些狂欢者，扔珠宝，露乳等等的全景景象。我们有这样一个政策，如果我们正在服务某人，不能看波本街上发生的疯狂状况。所以如果有打架或者其他什么事，我们不能看，对吧？我记得有一个家伙，我记得我正在为一个桌子上菜。有一个穿着蝙蝠侠面具，全裸，戴着12串珠子，就在那里打飞机。是的。打飞机。他在打飞机，对吧？餐厅里的每个人都在往外看，说，看，他们在拍照。经理史蒂文看着我，说，别他妈地往外看。我为这些人服务着，你想要红豆米饭吗？还是想要一些克里奥尔炸面团？然后那个家伙最终被经理护送到波本街更远的地方。但是你知道，我每天晚上午夜左右下班，那时的波本街最混乱。
And so I lived in the French Quarter as well. So I lived about 12 blocks down Bourbon in a small Creole cottage and a cute little like orange, old school New Orleans, one story spot. I lived in the attic above these gay meth dealers named Frankie and Johnny. Oh wow. And so I would get off work and I would basically have to walk through like this battlefield. I mean, it was a battlefield, getting home was out of like the Warriors movie. It was almost the best of humanity on display. Yeah, it was like Kensington, Philadelphia, but just alcohol, you know what I mean? Oh, it's all alcohol. But it's a lot of visitors, right? From outside. Almost all visitors. Yeah. And that kind of would set the flow for the weekend. For example, if the Raiders were playing the Saints, Raider Nation and they do not play around, if it's the Patriots, that's a whole different crowd. They think they're better than everybody else. Yeah, well, they technically are better than everybody else. But yeah.
所以我也住在法国区。我住在勃邦街下面大约12个街区的地方，住在一个小克里奥尔小屋里，一个可爱的像是橙色的老派新奥尔良一层楼的房子。我住在楼上，楼下是名叫弗兰基和约翰尼的同性恋摔奶制品商。哇哦。所以我下班后基本上要穿过像是一片战场。我是说，那地方就像是战士电影里的一幕。那里几乎展示了人类最好的一面。是的，就像费城的肯宁顿地区，但只是酒精问题，你懂吗？哦，那里只有酒精。但是有很多游客，对吧？几乎全是游客。是的。这种情况会为周末设定基调。例如，如果雷达队和圣徒队比赛，雷达国家队的球迷们可不是闹着玩的，如果是爱国者队，那就是完全不同的观众。他们觉得自己比其他人都好。是的，嗯，从技术上讲他们的确比其他人都强。但是。
But people from Massachusetts aren't like the cream of the crop in terms of like American superiority. Strong words, yep. No offense, but I mean. No, I'm sure they won't take that as. They are good at fighting, though. I'll tell you that. All right, great. New England has hands compared to some places. Which places are those Colorado? Colorado has no hands. Yeah. The West Coast, not too much hands. That's why you feel safe talking shit about Colorado. But if you get to the corn fed parts of East Colorado, these guys get hands bigger than my head. They'll be the shadowy. But anyways, I'd walk back to my house on Bourbon Street. And I would be sifting through this battlefield. And I had a friend at the time who's like, yeah, we should do a taxi cab confessions type spin-off where we ask people to confess a deep dark secret. And we posted the next day. And so we tried that. And it went viral on Instagram instantly. It was mostly incest stories. People admitting to incest. I know it's a common southern stereotype, but there's some truth to it. There was some murder confessions. That was pretty crazy. We never really posted any of those. How did you get people to confess? Pretty easy. And New Orleans has a homicide solve rate of like 22%. So, I mean, most of the time, they'll just tell you. I remember I was walking down Bourbon. I asked this kid, I was like, what's your deepest dark secret? And he told me, he's like, I just smoked a dude in the Magnolia to project housing the Third Ward. Project development. And they said, I just smoked a dude in the Magnolia playground for touching my sister, I'm listing a sister. And I was like, what?
从马萨诸塞州来的人并不像美国优越性的象征那样出类拔萃。说得挺狠的，没错。不是冒犯，但我的意思是。我相信他们不会把那当成冒犯。不过他们擅长打架，我可以告诉你这个。好的，很好。和一些地方相比，新英格兰算有实力的。那些地方是哪些？科罗拉多？科罗拉多并没有实力。是的。西海岸，实力也一般。所以你感觉可以放肆地批评科罗拉多。但是如果你去东科罗拉多那些喂玉米长大的地方，这些人的实力比我的脑袋还大。他们会阴暗。不过无论如何，我会走回到波本街的家。我在那里经历了一场激烈的战斗。那时有个朋友建议我们做一个类似打车专访的节目，让人们坦白一个深藏的秘密，然后第二天把视频发布出来。我们尝试了一下，结果立刻在Instagram上走红。大部分都是关于乱伦的故事。人们承认他们发生了乱伦。我知道这是一个普遍的南方刻板印象，但其中确实有一些真相。还有些人坦白了杀人的事。那真是疯狂。我们从未发布过那些内容。你怎么让人们坦白的？挺容易的。新奥尔良的谋杀破案率只有22%。所以，很多时候，他们只需要告诉你。我记得当时我走在波本街上，问一个孩子，他的最深的秘密是什么。他告诉我，他说，我刚刚在第三区的麦格诺利亚公园住宅区里干掉了一个家伙。开发项目。然后他说，我刚刚在麦格诺利亚操场里干掉了一个碰了我的妹妹的家伙，是我列出了个妹妹。我当时震惊了。
And he was like, yeah, look it up. And I was like, all right, hold on. And he was like, man found dead in central city playground. Like appeared to be homeless, shot execution style. So I told the kid, I was like, why'd you tell me that? He's like, man, put that shit out there. Like I'm trying to go viral. Like tag me too. Oh, I don't think you understand that even if you're a juvenile, he was probably 15. You can go, you can get juvenile life in Louisiana for a homicide. Even if it's justified. So I just deleted the footage in front of him. I was like, I'm going to delete this footage. See that trash button? I'm hitting it right now. Don't tell anyone that again. And he was like, all right, I appreciate it. And he walked off. But it's little moments like that. I always hate anything for the gram, I guess.
他就像说，是的，去查一下吧。我就像说，好的，等等。他说，中城市郊发现一个男人死在游乐场。看起来像是无家可归的，遭到枪杀。所以我对那个孩子说，为什么你告诉我这件事呢？他说，哥们，把这种事传出去。我想要出名。还要标记我的名字。哦，我觉得你可能没理解到，即使他是个未成年人，也许只有15岁。在路易斯安那，因为一起谋杀案，即使是正当的，你也可能被判处少年终身监禁。所以我当场删除了录像。我说，我要删除这段录像。你看到那个删除按钮吗？我正在按下去。再也不要再告诉任何人这种事。他说，好的，谢谢。然后走开了。但就是这些小时刻。我总是对那些只为了炫耀而做的事情感到厌恶，我想。
Yeah, after a while though, it became sort of a repetitive. Because there's only so many things that people can confess to that go viral. And just. Oh, so you were trying to see like what? Well, I mean, there's an incest one. Some people just say like, I eat ass. That was like every everyone said that. Or like I cheated on someone. I've seen a surprising number of people on your channel say, mention eating ass. Yeah. Yeah. The way how that, how seriously you said that will live in my head for the rest of my life. That's good. Yeah, I want you, I want to live in your head saying that a lot of people mention eating ass. Yeah, a lot of people do mention that.
是的，但是过一段时间后，这种情况有点重复了。因为只有很少的事情可以让人们承认并在互联网上传播。你在尝试查看什么吗？嗯，我的意思是，有一个涉及乱伦的。有些人只是说，我吃屁股。每个人都说过那个。或者像是我出轨了。我看到在你的频道上有意想不到数量的人提到吃屁股。是的。是的。你那么认真地说了这句话，我会记在脑海里一辈子。太好了。是的，我希望你能记在脑海里说很多人提到吃屁股。是的，确实很多人提到这个。
Also, that's kind of where I developed this magnetism for freestyle rapping. Everywhere I go, people rap. Not sure why. I mean, as a former rapper myself in middle school and for the first year of high school, I think that maybe like it takes one to no one. But everywhere I go, people start rapping. If you and me went outside of this podcast studio and walked around for five minutes, I can find somebody. It's rapping. I can tell who raps or who can rap or who has eight bars in their head, they're ready to go. I think you're also, there's something about you that gives them creates the safe space to perform their art. Yeah.
此外，这也是我开始对即兴说唱产生吸引力的地方。无论我走到哪里，都会有人说唱。不太清楚为什么。我是个中学时代的前说唱歌手，在高中的第一年也是。也许只有真正熟悉说唱的人才能发现吧。但无论我走到哪里，总有人开始说唱。如果你和我走出这个播客录音室，在外面转悠五分钟，我就能找到一个。在说唱。我能分辨出谁是说唱歌手，谁能说唱，或者谁脑中已经准备好八行歌词。我觉得你也有某种特质，使他们感到有一个安全的表演空间。是的。
The quarter confession series was the first time you saw the suit. That's when the suit came out. Yeah, it was kind of like a Ron Burgundy, Eric Andre, inspired type of thing. Where'd you get that suit? Goodwill. Goodwill. Yeah, always. Wow. I was playing checkers, you were playing chess. Good chess. Goodwill has a surprising amount of identical gray suits for sale. Yeah, I've actually gotten suits at a thrift store before. Yeah, a lot of people donate suits. And I was going for oversized suits, which are the cheapest ones there. Yeah. It was like 12 bucks, $12 to $25 every time for the outfit. If I wanted to look super sophisticated, like I'm from another era, I would go to thrift store. Yeah, because they're usually like this, there's like the patterns they have. It's just like a more sophisticated suit, which is what you kind of picked out. It made you look ridiculous, but in the best kind of way.
这个季度的忏悔系列是你第一次见到这套服装的时候。那时候这套衣服首次亮相。是的，这有点像罗恩·伯根迪、埃里克·安德烈的风格灵感。你从哪里得到那套衣服的？救济站。救济站。是的，总是。哇。我在玩跳棋，你在玩国际象棋。棋高一着。救济站卖的灰色西装数量惊人。是的，我以前确实在二手店买过西装。是的，很多人捐赠西装。我选择了超大号的西装，那些是最便宜的。是的。每一套全套衣物都是12美元到25美元。如果我想要看起来非常有品位，就像是来自另一个时代的人，我会去二手店。是的，因为它们通常像这样，它们的图案。这就像是一个更加有品位的西装，就像你选择的那样。这让你看起来荒唐可笑，但却是一种最好的方式。
The tough part about quarter confessions for me is that everybody that was featured, for the most part, would more or less regret being a part of the show. Yeah. And that, over time, just gave me a bad feeling where I was like, you know what? I kind of feel like I am doing an ambush interview, especially because I'm presenting a so agreeable, yet the intention is to make something funny. Yeah. And I get that that's what people do in the satire sphere. I'm sure LEG and Bruno and Borat did the same thing. And I don't think it's unethical because that's all for the purposes of comedy. It is what it is. But for me, I wanted to do something different. Yeah. Because there's an intimacy to confessing a thing. Right. And then you just don't really realize the implications of that. And the atmosphere at Bourbon Street is like, anything goes. Like it's a free-spirited place. But if you transport that energy digitally to a different place like Colorado, they might look at it and be like, different place and time, like five years later. Right. That same person as a family and stuff like this. And all of a sudden they're talking about eating ass.
对我来说，季度坦白的棘手之处在于，大多数被特写的人，或多或少地会后悔参加这个节目。是的。随着时间的推移，这让我产生了一种不好的感觉，我觉得，我有点像在进行一次突袭采访，尤其是因为我表现得非常友善，但意图是让人发笑。是的。我明白这就是人们在讽刺领域所做的事情。我相信LEG、布鲁诺和博拉特也是这样做的。我不觉得这是不道德的，因为这都是为了搞笑。这就是事实。但对我来说，我想要做点不同的事情。是的。因为坦白有一种亲近感。是的。然后你真的没有意识到那样做的后果。在波旁街的氛围就像，随心所欲。但如果将那种能量数字化地转移到像科罗拉多这样的不同地方，他们可能会看到它，并说，不同的地方和时间，比如五年后。是的。同一个人现在已经有了家庭等等。突然间他们开始谈论吃屁眼。
Right, exactly. You know, the kids have to think about that. Or imagine if there's a video of your grandma or grandpa out there when he was a kid talking about eating ass. That's a horrible experience. To discover that about your respected elder later in life, it's tough. I don't even know where to go with that. But literally the opening question was, tell me your deepest, darkest secret. Yeah. You just come up to somebody like that. Yeah. How often do you get like a no? What's the yes to no ratio? Well, the weird thing is like, we don't really extract answers from people. What makes a good interview is when they're ready to talk. The more you have to talk and try to get an answer out of them, it's just not a good vibe. So we kind of look for people who appear to be already ready to talk open body language. Like they seem confident and verbose. And we approach them first. There's a look. We wouldn't approach a shy person and be like, come on, tell me. No.
对，完全正确。你知道，孩子们必须考虑这个问题。或者想象一下，如果有一个视频，里面是你的爷爷或奶奶小时候说起吃屁股的事情。那可是个可怕的经历。在后来的生活中发现你尊敬的长辈曾经这样说过，那真是够糟糕的。我甚至不知道该怎么处理这种情况。但事实上，开场问题就是，“告诉我你最深、最黑暗的秘密。”是的。你就这样去问别人。对，你通常会被拒绝多少次呢？阳性反应和阴性反应的比例是多少？奇怪的是，我们并没有从人们身上获取答案。一个好的采访是当被采访者愿意说话。如果你必须不停说话并试图从他们那里得到答案，那就不是一个好的氛围。所以我们会寻找那些看起来愿意开口说话的人，他们的肢体语言自信且口若悬河。我们会先接触他们。有一种眼神。我们不会去找一个害羞的人然后说，“来吧，告诉我。”不会的。
What about a person with pain in their eyes? Oh, yeah. We're interviewing them. Yeah. So they're ready to talk. They're just not like. Yeah. There's different ways to be ready. Right.
那么眼睛有疼痛感的人呢？哦，是的。我们正在采访他们。是的，他们准备好谈话了。只是他们不太舒服。对，准备好有很多种方式。是的。
I see homeless people a lot. And they always look fascinating. And the ones I've talked to are always fascinating. Yeah. We just did a video at the Vegas in the Vegas tunnels. Like trying to obviously got taken down by Fox, but whatever. We I was going to make a joke that I didn't see it. We tried to help a lot of them by getting them IDs. And when I made the documentary, I had this idea that if I, it's a big roadblock for them is getting identification. Without IDs, you can't check into a homeless shelter. You can't do day labor. You can't qualify for housing. Nothing. So when we interviewed them, they'd basically tell us, if I had my ID, I wouldn't be here. And so we said, OK, we're going to really help this time. We're not just going to talk to them about their struggles. We're going to actively go out and get them IDs at the DMV. So we did that. And nothing really changed in their life. And we sat down with a recovery specialist who works directly with them day in and day out. And he explained to me that he's been trying to do the same thing I tried to do in a one week period for the past 10 years. And that they have deeper underlying traumas and pain that need to be dealt with far before they even take the steps to enter society as a housed person. That's a heavy truth right there. Breaking that shame cycle has to come first. Because you got to think, right?
我经常看到无家可归的人。他们总是看起来很迷人。而我和他们交谈过的人总是很有趣。是的，我们在拉斯维加斯的隧道里拍摄了一部视频。很明显被福克斯沦陷了，但无所谓。我本来想开玩笑说我没看到视频。我们试图通过帮助他们获得身份证明来帮助他们。拍摄纪录片时，我有这样一个想法，如果我，这对他们来说是一个很大的障碍。没有身份证，就无法入住无家可归者收容所。你无法做临时工作。你无法有资格获得住房。没有任何东西。所以当我们采访他们时，他们基本上告诉我们，如果我有身份证，我就不会在这里。所以我们说，好的，这次我们要真正帮助他们。我们不仅仅是和他们谈论他们的困境。我们会积极地去车管所帮他们办理身份证。所以我们这样做了。但是他们的生活并没有真正改变。我们和一个专门与他们一起工作的康复专家坐下来谈话。他告诉我，他试图在过去的10年里做我在一个星期内尝试做的同样的事情。他们有更深层的心灵创伤和痛苦，需要在他们甚至踏入社会之前加以处理。那是一个沉重的真相。打破羞辱的循环必须放在首位。因为你要想一想，对吧？
Like, I'm from a generation that romanticizes vagrancy and homelessness to a certain extent, if it's called van life. Or if it is done in a way that's sort of like Rolling Stone, Willie Nelson hit the road. People who are above 50, they feel really embarrassed to be in the spiral of homelessness. They feel like failures. A lot of them have kids who they weren't there for. That's not the kind of pain that can be dealt with by giving someone a tiny home. It's a good step forward. But for someone to really make a change, they have to want to change. And so it's how do you help someone and guide themselves in the right direction? And if you're too paternalistic and you use shame as a method to get them to clean up, they're going to end up right where they started. That's a tough truth to accept. There's a lot of people want to quick fix to things. And I don't blame people who go out and give baloney sandwiches out to the homeless. And in each case, it's probably its own little puzzle. Each person is so complex. Now imagine drug abuse, what that does to the brain. Yeah. Trauma, childhood trauma, there's so much to unpack. And then just the belief that they're the undesirables, that they don't deserve to be a part of society because they've failed a fundamental obligation like taking care of their kids.
我来自一个把流浪和无家可归浪漫化到某种程度的一代，如果它被称为“房车生活”的话。或者如果以一种类似滚石乐队或威利·尼尔森的方式去做。50岁以上的人感到非常尴尬沦为无家可归的泥淖中。他们感到自己是失败者。很多人有孩子，而他们无法在孩子身边。这种痛苦不是通过给某人一个微型房屋就能解决的。这是一个往前迈出的好步骤。但要真正改变一个人，他们必须想要改变。所以问题在于如何帮助某人并引导他们走向正确方向？如果你过于家长式，并且用羞辱作为让他们整顿的方法，他们最终会回到最初的地方。这是一个艰难的真相要接受。很多人想要快速解决问题的方法。我不责怪那些给无家可归者发面包片的人。每种情况可能都是一个小难题。每个人都很复杂。现在想象一下药物滥用，对大脑造成了什么影响。是的。创伤，童年创伤，有很多东西需要梳理。还有一个信念就是他们是不受欢迎的，他们不配成为社会一分子因为他们没有履行好像照顾孩子这样的基本义务。
If we could take a small tangent to, you mentioned this Vegas video, which is fascinating. It was taken down recently by YouTube. Or YouTube took it down based on, yeah, it was illegal. Fox 5, I guess. So the documentary was an hour and 45 minutes. We used 10 seconds of a news clip that was publicly broadcast by Fox 5 Vegas. And according to the Copyright Act of 1976, you're allowed to use any publicly broadcast news clip in a transformative capacity in any documentary film, or research paper, or broadcast, or anything. They specifically, this corporation called Gray Media that controls the TV stations in almost every small town. They had lawyers hit up YouTube. And YouTube complied with an illegal copyright strike to get our video immediately removed. And I'm a YouTube partner. I'm in the YouTube Partner Program. So to think that I wasn't forewarned is, it's a bit strange, but it also smells like corruption to me to a certain extent. Yeah, you shouldn't have that amount of power. At the very least, they should have the power to just silence that five second clip maybe. Yeah, but I'm taking them to court because I have the means to be able to do so. I'm a larger creator. I have an audience. I have the financial backing to do it. I can't imagine how many people out there are smaller creators with not as much consumer of a fan base they can mobilize against someone like Fox 5 or the money to go to court. So I want to take them all the way there to set precedent for future cases so that these mainstream media conglomerates can't copyright strike documentary filmmakers at will. It doesn't make sense. Oh, thank you for doing that. That's really, really, really important. And that's really powerful. And it might hopefully empower YouTube to also put pressure on people to not. YouTube is in a difficult position because there's so much content out there. There's so many claims. It's hard to investigate, but YouTube should be in a place where they push back against this kind of stuff as a first line of defense, especially to protect small creators. So what you're doing is really, really important. Appreciate it, man. It sucks that it was taken down. Do you have any hope?
如果我们可以稍微偏离一下话题，你提到了这个有趣的拉斯维加斯视频。最近YouTube把它删掉了。或者说是YouTube基于某种理由把它删掉了，是的，是非法的。我猜应该是Fox 5。这部纪录片有一个小时45分钟长。我们使用了5秒钟的Fox 5 Vegas公开播出的新闻片段。根据1976年的版权法，你可以在任何纪录片、研究论文、广播节目或其他作品中以创造性方式使用任何公开播出的新闻片段。特别是这个名为Gray Media的公司，控制着几乎每个小镇的电视台。他们的律师联系了YouTube。YouTube履行了非法版权打击，立即将我们的视频移除。我是YouTube合作伙伴，参与了YouTube合作伙伴计划。所以觉得我事先没有被警告有点奇怪，但对我来说，也有点像腐败的味道。是的，他们不应该拥有那么大的权力。至少他们应该有能力只禁止那五秒钟的片段。是的，但我打算告他们，因为我有能力这样做。我是一个更大的创作者，拥有一大批观众和财力支持。我无法想象还有多少小创作者没有那么多粉丝可以来团结起来对抗像Fox 5这样的人，也没有钱去法庭。所以我想把他们告到底，为未来的案例设立先例，以便这些主流媒体公司不能随意对待纪录片制作者的版权。这是毫无道理的。哦，谢谢你做这件事。这真的很重要，而且很有力量。希望这样做也会让YouTube对别人施加压力。YouTube处于一个困难的位置，因为那里有那么多内容，有那么多索赔。很难进行调查，但YouTube应该在第一线反击这种情况，特别是为了保护小创作者。所以你所做的事情真的很重要。感谢你，那个视频被移除真的很糟糕。你还有希望吗？
Well, I talked to my YouTube partner today and he said that the Fox 5 lawyers have two weeks to comply with my counter appeal. But I spent 20 grand on human voiceovers in five different languages. So I invested probably in total, like 70K into this video. So even if it gets reinstated, the steam's kind of been taken out of its trajectory. But also it's just like a really important video is good for the world. Yeah, like why the hell would Fox 5 have an vested interest in having the video taken down? I just hated what people do that to videos or to creators that are doing good in the world. Yeah, it's not an expose on the mayor of Las Vegas. It's an attempt to show the civilian public how to get involved in a local nonprofit and potentially intervene in the lives of the tunnel people. Well, Fox 5, the other channel 5, as you said. Yeah.
今天我和我的YouTube合作伙伴谈了一下，他说Fox 5的律师还有两周时间来响应我的反诉。但是我已经花了两万美元在五种不同语言的人声配音上。所以我总共可能投资了70000美元在这个视频上。即使它被恢复，它的发展势头也已经减弱。但是这个视频对世界来说很重要。是的，为什么Fox 5会对视频下架有利益吗？我讨厌人们这样对待那些对世界有益的视频或者创作者。是的，这不是关于拉斯维加斯市长的揭露，而是试图向公众展示如何参与本地非营利组织并有可能干预隧道人的生活。嗯，像你说的，是Fox 5，另一个5频道。是的。
Well, thank you for pushing back and highlighting it. Hopefully it gets brought back up. But yeah, defending other creators so that other creators can take risks and don't get taken down for stupid reasons. Yeah. So quarter confessions was written? No, it was all real life reality TV documentary. But it caught the attention of a larger company called Doing Things Media. Yes. And they contacted me pretty much like a week after I graduated from college in the May of 2019. And they said, hey, like, how would you like to produce a show? I was like, what do you mean? They were like, we'll get you in an RV. We'll pay you 45k a year. You get to pay for gas, for food, for two hotels a week. Go out there, make content. And we'll be in the background just powering it all. And that was the birth of all gas, no breaks. Yes. I mean, all gas, no breaks was named after a book that I wrote called All Gas, No Breaks, A Hitchhiker's Diary, which chronicled the 70-day journey that we were just talking about. It's a tough book to find, by the way. Oh yeah, there's only a few copies left. I'm thinking about doing a reprint at some point down the line, but I sold off the last 100 copies like a month and a half ago. Yeah. Until then, you guys should go read On the Road by Jack Cairo. Yeah. You should read it. If you can't get my book, Get On the Road by Jack Cairo. That's great. It's the best.
嗯，谢谢你的反馈和突出它。希望能够再次提起来。但是是的，要捍卫其他创作者，让他们能够冒险，不会因为愚蠢的原因而被封杀。是的。所以"Quarter Confessions"是编写的吗？不，那全都是真实生活的真人秀纪录片。但是引起了一个更大的公司Doing Things Media的注意。是的。他们几乎在我2019年5月大学毕业的一周后联系了我。他们说，嘿，你想制作一档节目吗？我说，你是什么意思？他们说，我们会给你一辆房车。我们每年付给你45,000美元。你只需支付汽油、食物和每周两次的酒店费用。去创作内容。我们在背后支持你。这就是"全速前进，毫无束缚"的诞生。是的。我是以我写的一本书《全速前进，毫无束缚，一个搭便车者的日记》命名的，这本书记录了我们刚刚谈到的70天旅程。顺便说一句，这是一本很难找到的书。是的，只剩下几本了。我考虑过在以后的某个时候重新印刷，但是一个半月前我卖掉了最后100本。是的。在那之前，你们应该去读读杰克·凯鲁的《在路上》。是的。你们应该读一读。如果买不到我的书，那就买杰克·凯鲁的《在路上》。那本书很棒。
Once your birth tells. April 23rd. OK. I'm a Taurus. Come and see it. Typical Taurus. Yeah. I'm a typical Taurus man. I'm a Scorpio moon. Just write that down. What's the time when you were born? 1130. 1130 at night? Or of course. Yeah. Typical. This guy knew it. That's the real science. Yeah. Anyways, so the idea of All Gas, No Breaks as a show was to combine the, I guess, Road Dog ethos of the All Gas, No Breaks book with the presentation and editing style of quarter confessions.
一旦你出生就能告诉。4月23日。好的。我是金牛座。来看看吧。典型的金牛座。是的。我是典型的金牛座男人。我的月亮在天蝎座。记下来。你出生的时候是什么时间？11点30分。晚上11点30分？当然了。是的。典型的。这家伙知道。这就是真正的科学。无论如何，All Gas, No Breaks这个节目的理念是将All Gas, No Breaks这本书的道路哲学与quarter confessions的演示和编辑风格结合起来。
So it was to take quarter confessions on the road that was pretty much like a simulated hitchhiking experience. But with the editing and like punchy effects of quarter confessions, which is like I wear a suit. We did a fast zoom ins. Little effects, stuff like that. It was a man. Those were the best years. It was just so fun. I mean, imagine you're fresh out of college.
所以，这就是提出四分之一的忏悔，就像是在模拟搭便车的经历。但通过剪辑和像四分之一忏悔那样动感的效果，就像我穿着西装。我们进行了快速放大，一些小效果之类的。那时候真是美好的年华。那时候真是太好玩了。我是说，想象一下，你刚刚从大学毕业。
You were just a doorman interviewing people about making out with their cousin and stuff. And then boom, this company that you've never even heard of is willing to buy you an RV and give you 45k a year, which to me at the time was more money than I could possibly imagine. So I called my dad. I was like, dad, I need you to find me an RV. Because he's the only guy I know who knows about cars. And even he doesn't know much about cars.
你只是一个门童，采访人们有关与表亲接吻之类的事情。突然间，一个你甚至从未听说过的公司愿意为你购买一辆房车，并每年给你45000美元，对我来说那时候的钱比我能想象的还要多。所以我给我爸打电话。我说，爸爸，我需要你帮我找一辆房车。因为他是我唯一认识懂车的人。即使他对车也不是很懂。
So he's like, all right, I'm on it. So the RV was 20,000. And the first event that we were called to cover was the Burning Man Festival. And that was tough because Burning Man is not too keen on filming. It's supposed to be a non-commercialized escape from reality. I mean, they have a gift economy set up. It's based upon mutual participation and non-exploitation.
所以他说，好的，我会处理。这辆房车要价2万美元。我们接到的第一个报道任务是前往“燃烧人节”（Burning Man Festival）。这有点困难，因为“燃烧人节”并不太欢迎摄影。它被看作是一个非商业化的脱离现实的逃避之地。他们建立了一个赠予经济系统，基于互相参与和非剥削。
And so the idea of making a Burning Man video was tough at first because burners oftentimes, and this is not all of them, but are pretty well off in general. A lot of them have tech jobs, are pretty high up in Silicon Valley. And Burning Man is where they go to take off, to take the edge off and basically become their burner persona. On the plaid, they become reborn.
一开始制作《燃烧人视频》这个想法很困难，因为烧友们通常（但并非所有人如此）总体上都比较富有。许多人从事科技工作，在硅谷地位颇高。而《燃烧人节》则是他们去释放压力、展现燃烧人身份的地方。在那里，他们变得焕然一新。
And they take ketamine, and they wear colitis gulp glasses and steampunk hats. And they snort MDMA, and they run around the sand. Listen, do you snort MDMA? That's one I need to go to the AMA. I thought it's a pill. I didn't know. It's better to take it in a pill or water, but you can snort MDMA. I definitely need to take MDMA. I'm already full of love, but like that, I probably go to another level.
他们吸食氯胺酮，戴上科利蒂斯大饮料杯眼镜和蒸汽朋克帽子。他们吸食MDMA，然后在沙滩上奔跑。听着，你吸食过MDMA吗？我需要去AMA问一下。我以为它是一颗药丸。我不知道。最好是吃药丸或用水服用，但你也可以吸食MDMA。我肯定要尝试MDMA。我已经充满爱，但通过这种方式，我可能会达到另一个层次。
Yeah, don't snort it because it only lasts for you like 90 minutes. Let me write that down. So anyways, we didn't know what to do because we'd try to film. Don't snort. The initial idea for All Gas No Breaks was to, instead of asking people, what's your deepest arc a secret? It was, what's the craziest trip you've been on? So the idea was to not satirize drunk people, but satirize people who are fried on acid. And so we went to Boulder real quick, did a test interview with some lady who talked about seeing ancestral aliens during a peyote retreat.
不要抽它，因为效果只能持续大约90分钟。让我记下来。总之，我们不知道该怎么办，因为我们试图录像。不要抽。《全速前进》最初的想法是，与其问人们，“你最深藏的秘密是什么？”不如问，“你去过最疯狂的旅行是什么？”所以想法并不是讽刺喝醉的人，而是讽刺服用迷幻药的人。于是我们迅速去了博尔德，与一名女士进行了测试采访，她谈到在一个食人鼠鼠收藏旅行中看到了先祖外星人。
And so it's pretty easy to extract trip reports from hippies and gutter punks and stuff like that, or oogles. So we go to Burning Man. We start asking people what's your craziest trip story? And they didn't have the same type of free-flowing, storytelling style that like a on the street, cross-punk in New Orleans, might have where they're like, I don't give a fuck, I'll tell you whatever.
所以很容易从嬉皮士、沟渠朋克或其他人那里提取旅行报告，比如oogles。于是我们去参加火人节。我们开始问人们：你最疯狂的旅行经历是什么？他们没有像新奥尔良街头的朋克那样自由流畅的讲故事风格，他们可能会直言不讳，什么都敢说。
These people were very bottled up about what they were willing to disclose. So we went on Burning Man radio and we did a broadcast. And we said, hey, we're psychedelic journalists. It was me and my friend, CL, at the time. I said, we're psychedelic journalists. We're parked on Tan and I, which is a cross-street in Black Rock City. And we said, we have a 1998 Catalina Coachman sport.
这些人对他们愿意透露的内容非常守口如瓶。所以我们上了《燃烧人广播电台》做了一个节目。我们说，嘿，我们是迷幻记者。当时我和我的朋友CL在一起。我说，我们是迷幻记者。我们停在布莱克岩城市的Tan和I交叉路口。我们说，我们有一辆1998年的卡塔利娜教练自行车。
It's an RV. We've set up a podcast studio. We're doing a show about psychedelic voyages. Yeah. So lo and behold, two hours later, we had 10 people lined up at the RV. Nice. Willing to talk. So that vetted people in advance for us. And so we did a couple interviews and that was that. Well, what were some of the stories from the trip reports? There was this lady named Rosma who said that she was known in several circles in Berkeley for being multi-orgasmic and could create multiple repeated climaxes using only her mind by squinting her eyes and squeezing her eyes together so much that the pleasure spider just went crazy. I feel like I talked to several people like that at Berkeley. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Not that. Well, yeah, that lady, I think she manifests herself in many forms. Right. But still, it was on the cruder end.
这是一个房车。我们建立了一个播客工作室。我们正在做一个关于迷幻之旅的节目。是的。然后，两个小时后，我们在房车前排起了10个人。不错。他们愿意交谈。这样，我们提前就筛选出了一些人。然后我们做了几次采访，就这样结束了。那么，旅行报告中有什么故事？有一个名叫Rosma的女士说她在伯克利的几个圈子里以多次高潮而闻名，她可以通过闭眼并用力闭紧双眼来重复创造多次高潮，以至于快感让人难以抑制。我觉得在伯克利我和几个人谈到过类似的情况。是的。你知道我在说什么吗？不是那个。嗯，是的，我想那位女士以各种形式显现。对。但是，她的描述有点粗俗。
There was one guy named Kimbo Slice, which is his burner name. He talked about taking a shit after taking a quarter of mushrooms and how he was seeing his childhood and visualizing his past life as the turds were flowing into the toilet and just talks about the psychedelic union between pooing and taking shrimps. So he was very visual with his words. Yeah. So there was stuff like that. I interviewed Alex Gray, which was super cool about his first trip in San Francisco when he was in 1971 shortly after the summer of love. I got to do some pretty cool interviews, but still it was a semi-ambush style. I wouldn't say that we were doing journalism yet. It was still comedic video work. Yeah. Was there a narrative that tied it together? It's like really just a trip, comedic almost with the interview. And then I go, burning man. And then it's on to the next one. So I guess that could give a loose structure, but it's just like a punchy and slapstick thing.
有一个叫Kimbo Slice的家伙，这是他的化名。他谈到吃了四分之一的蘑菇后如厕，描述了自己在看着成长的过程和想象自己过去生命的经历，就像屎流进马桶一样，他还谈到了排泄和吃虾之间的迷幻联系。他用言辞非常生动。是的，就是这样。我采访了Alex Gray，在1971年他第一次在旧金山的旅行时，当时正值夏季之爱的后面。我做了一些很酷的采访，但仍然是一种半突袭风格。我不能说我们已经从事新闻工作了。这仍然是喜剧视频工作。是的。有一个连贯性的故事吗？就像是一个真正的旅程，带有幽默感的采访。然后我去参加燃烧人节。然后继续进行下一个采访。所以我想这可能是一个宽松的结构，但它仅仅是一个轻快和滑稽的东西。
Um, everything was going good until we interviewed this guy named DJ Softbaby. But he was wearing a golden leotard with, once again, kaleidoscope glasses, shirtless dancing, like, you know, dancing. And he was eating chowder out of a plastic bowl. And he was like, this chowder is so fucking good. He's like, this is the best chowder I've ever had in my life. And he starts putting the chowder on his face. And he's like, I want the chowder all over me. Yeah. And so we, we just go, Hey man, can you just do a dance for us real quick? Just for some B roll. He does a dance. We posted on Instagram the next morning doing things media CEO calls me, read, he says all of our pages are down. And he's like, that guy you filmed dancing last night on drugs, putting chowder on his face. That guy is at the top of MIT top of MIT. I don't understand. He went to, I'm like saying, you know, my brother is a rocket science. He's like head of NASA or whatever. I mean, the guy knows people in Boston. OK, you know, not in the Whitey Bulger sense, but in the reverse sense. I've trouble believing that DJ soft, baby. Oh, DJ soft, maybe it was major. It could have been Harvard. It could have been, but it wasn't, it wasn't UMass. I don't think there's anybody that's a quote at the head of MIT who's putting, um, what was it all over his face? Uh, chowder, chowder. Well, then you haven't been to Burning Man yet. OK. I'm not working yet. So I have to consult my colleagues at MIT, if they know, DJ soft, baby. So whoever you probably was Harvard, let's put it on them.
OK, the top of Harvard. So he made some calls, you know, to the tops, to the heads of big tech. Got all the doing things media pages taken down at the time. That was like a vast network of pages. And we ended up having to take the, obviously, the video came down. And he held the entire network of Instagram pages hostage. And so that was a, he made us agree to never post that video again. And then somehow got all of our pages reinstated. So that was my first brush with like, uh, you know, powerful people on drugs. And that was probably my last brush with powerful people on drugs. So what, what did you transition into from there? I think after Burning Man, we went to the South went to Talladega race weekend, went to a Donald Trump, junior book signing, went to a juggalo.
啊，一切都很顺利，直到我们采访了一个名叫DJ Softbaby的家伙。但是他穿着一件金色紧身裤，再次戴着万花筒眼镜，赤裸上身跳舞，就像跳舞一样。他拿着一个塑料碗吃着浓汤。他说，这个浓汤太好吃了。他说，这是我这辈子吃过的最好吃的浓汤。然后他开始把浓汤抹在自己脸上。他说，我想要浓汤遍布全身。是的。所以我们就说，喂，伙计，你可以为我们随便跳个舞吗？就当作一些B卷。他跳了一支舞。第二天早上我们在Instagram上发布了他的视频，Doing Things Media的CEO打电话给我，他说我们所有的页面都被删掉了。他说，你拍到的那个昨晚在吸毒、把浓汤抹在脸上跳舞的那个家伙，他在麻省理工学院的最高层。我搞不懂。我说，你知道我的兄弟是个火箭科学家，他是NASA的负责人之类的。我是说，这个家伙在波士顿认识人。好吧，不是白手党的那种意思，而是相反的意思。我很难相信那个DJ软宝贝。哦，DJ软宝贝说大可能是主要的。可能是哈佛，但不是，不是马萨诸塞大学。我认为在麻省理工学院的顶尖人物不会把，嗯，他把什么涂到脸上了？呃，浓汤，浓汤。那么你还没有去过燃烧人节。好吧，我还没有去过。所以我得去请教我的同事在麻省理工学院，如果他们知道DJ软宝贝。那么你们说的可能是哈佛，就归咎于他们吧。哦，是哈佛的顶尖人物。所以他打了一些电话，你知道，给一些大科技公司的首脑。让所有Doing Things Media的页面被删除。当时那是一个广泛的页面网络。我们最后不得不删除那个视频。他拿着整个Instagram页面网络当人质。因此，他让我们同意永远不再发布那个视频。然后不知何故又让我们所有的页面恢复。所以那是我第一次接触到像是在吸毒的权势人物。那很可能也是我最后一次接触到那些权势人物吸毒的情况。那之后你转变为什么呢？我想燃烧人节过后，我们去了南方，去了塔拉迪加赛车周末，去了一个唐纳德·特朗普的书签名会，参加了一个朱格洛聚会。
Adjacent fetish mansion in central Florida called the sausage castle. Ah, juggalo adjacent. Uh, sauce. Okay. Can you, can you can you run that by me again? A juggalo adjacent fetish mansion in central Florida. Fetish mansion in central Florida juggalo adjacent. I mean, every single one of those words that you like needs a book or something. Right. So juggalo, by the way, where are the juggalos? Is this ICP? ICP fans. OK, but I say adjacent because it's not a juggalo mansion, but there's a lot of juggalos who kick it at the mansion and it's juggalo friendly. Oh. Okay. Juggalo friendly. Yeah. Cause they get made fun of in a lot of places. Oh, so it's not. OK, I got it. And juggalos say outrageous shit, you know, and they embarrass themselves and they fight a lot. So they're kind of, they're on the FBI's gang list, which if you ask me, ICP or the juggalos, the juggalos, if it was the, the head of the drug, the juggalos, it would be violent J and shaggy two dope, but there's associated acts like twisted. And there's a whole rabbit hole. Honestly, tech nine is sort of a part of that. Tech nine. I don't know who that is. Should I know? He's a he's actually one of the top selling touring rappers despite having sort of not that many streams. Tech nine is like, it's got a huge cult following in Missouri. This is like the juggalos started in Warren, Michigan, which should also say ICP in St. Clomposy. So this is a thing. This is a movement. Oh, yeah. If you if you went to Seattle right now and punched a cop and they booked you in county jail, you may end up running with the juggalos. Running with the juggalos. They're a presence in Pacific Northwest prison system from what I've heard.
佛罗里达中部的一座毗邻的恋物洋楼被称为香肠城堡。啊，与快乐狂绅士相邻。酱料。好的。你能再给我重复一遍吗？佛罗里达中部的快乐狂绅士相邻的恋物洋楼。在佛罗里达中部的恋物洋楼与快乐狂绅士相邻。我的意思是，你提到的每个词都需要一个详实的解释。对了，快乐狂绅士是指什么？是ICP乐队的粉丝。好吧，我用相邻来描述，因为这不是一座快乐狂绅士的洋楼，但有许多快乐狂绅士在那里聚会，这里对快乐狂绅士友好。哦。好的。对快乐狂绅士友好。是的，因为他们在很多地方遭受嘲笑。哦，所以这不是。好，我懂了。快乐狂绅士会说一些荒唐的话，他们会丢脸并且经常打架。所以他们在FBI的黑名单上，可以说，ICP或者快乐狂绅士，如果要找一个头目，就是暴力J和shaggy two dope，但还有像twisted这样的附属团体。这是一个深不见底的洞。老实说，Tech Nine也算是其中的一部分。Tech Nine。我不知道他是谁。我应该知道吗？他实际上是巡回演出的销量最高的说唱歌手之一，尽管他的流媒体播放量并不是很高。Tech Nine在密苏里有很庞大的粉丝群体。这就是快乐狂绅士的起源地，起初始于密歇根州的沃伦，ICP在圣克洛普西也是如此。这是一个运动。哦，是的。如果现在你去西雅图打警察并且被关进监狱，你可能最终会和快乐狂绅士结伙。和快乐狂绅士结伙。据我所知，他们在太平洋西北部的监狱体系中很有影响力。
Can you tell a juggalo from like a distance? Well, they say whoop whoop. So if you see a juggalo, they'll say that also like I'll try to. I'll try to look after that. They're kind of it's called the dark carnivals, the mythology they abide by. What do they define themselves? What's the idea of a family? A family. No, I understand. But what's the ideology? What's the philosophical foundation of their anti-racist? They like to drink fago and also just like cheap liquor and stuff like that. They're they they're into drugs. Yeah. You know, a lot of circles, if you pull out a crack pipe, people will be like, I don't want to drink with you anymore. If you're at a juggalo party and someone smoking twiz or something, it's relatively accepted.
你能从远处看出一个流浪汉吗？他们说“呜呜”。所以如果你看到一个流浪汉，他们也会这样说，我会尽力试试。他们有一种被称为黑暗狂欢节的神话学。他们如何定义自己？家庭的概念是什么？家庭。我明白了。但他们的意识形态是什么？他们的反种族主义的哲学基础是什么？他们喜欢喝法果和便宜的酒精。他们热衷于毒品。在许多圈子里，如果你拿出一根吸毒管，人们会说“我不想再和你喝酒了”。在一个流浪汉聚会上，如果有人抽twiz之类的东西，相对来说是被接受的。
I was twiz. Meth. Meth, right. Right. Lots of tattoos. Yeah. The hatchet man is the most common one. So it's a psychopathic records logo. It's a cartoon of a clown wheeling a hatchet. It's actually a pretty sick logo. I think they remember enjoying some of the ICP music. It's good. That's pretty good. It's funny. It's edgy. Well, they get satirized a lot, but I got love for the clowns and also so when all gas no brakes transitioned away from, you know, rich elite drug parties and into like the south, that's when the fun really started to happen. Living in your RV in Alabama and Florida and stuff is the best. Why? What is it about? People are just so friendly down there and it's warm year round and people are non judgmental. It's just great.
我曾经迷恋过Twiz. Meth. 对，没错。对，身上有很多纹身。是的，那个斧头人是最常见的。所以这是一个精神病记录的标志。是一个小丑推着一把斧头的卡通形象。实际上是一个相当不错的标志。我记得他们曾经喜欢ICP的一些音乐。很不错。挺有意思的。很潮。嗯，他们经常被讽刺，但我对小丑们还是很喜欢的，当《全力以赴，没有急刹车》从富有的精英派对过渡到南部时，真正有趣的事情才开始发生。住在RV里的阿拉巴马和佛罗里达等地是最好的。为什么呢？那里的人们非常友好，全年都很温暖，人们不带有偏见。这简直太棒了。
The South gets hated on a lot, especially in the coastal coastal states, Mississippi and Alabama are kind of like the butts of a lot of jokes and stuff, but there's a great state. No, I love it. You mix it called. Albuquerque, all those. Oh, yeah. The ABQ is. It's great. ABQ was that Albuquerque? It's what Jesse Pinkman called it as the ABQ. Oh, shit. The depth of reference as you bring to the table is intense. It's OK. I met a lady in Albuquerque when I was traveling across the United States and she said, take me with you. Said, I'm sorry, man, I can't. Yeah. But I think about that lady. Think you made the right call. I don't know. Yeah.
南方经常受到很多鄙视，特别是在沿海州，密西西比州和阿拉巴马州有点像很多笑话和玩笑的对象，但其实那里是一个伟大的州。不，我喜欢它。你混淆了点。那就叫阿尔伯克基，所有那些。哦，对啊。ABQ。它很棒。ABQ就是指阿尔伯克基吗？杰西·平克曼称之为ABQ。哇，你带来的引用深奥无比。没关系。我在穿越美国时在阿尔伯克基遇到一个女士，她说，带我走吧。我说，对不起，我不能。是的。但我会想念那位女士。我觉得你做了正确的选择。我不知道。是的。
On the road. Yeah. By Jack Kerouac, best book I've ever read in my life. There's a there's a moment when he meets a nice girl on a bus and they have a love affair. That's good on a bus or they. No, no, they went to California. Well, yeah, and there was a love affair on the bus, but it wasn't sexual. It was just romantic. It was it was in the air. It was an air, which there is something in the air on the bus. Like a great home mega bus type of situation. There's certainly something in the air. But the romance there is, man. We travel because it's exchanges getting together and you're like feeling each other out. But you're in it. Take you each have a story because you wouldn't be taking a bus unless you had a story.
在路上。是的。杰克·凯鲁亚克的《在路上》，我一生中读过的最好的书。有一个时刻，他在公共汽车上遇见一个好女孩，然后他们开始了一段恋情。在公共汽车上发生这种事情很不错，不是吗？不，不，他们去了加利福尼亚。嗯，然后在公共汽车上发生了一段恋情，但并不是性关系，只是浪漫的。那是一种氛围。公共汽车上确实有一种气氛，一种像大型家庭巴士般的情景。但那里确实有一点浪漫，我们旅行是为了交流和相互了解。每个人都有自己的故事，否则你不会坐公共汽车。
So you're, especially if you're traveling across countries or something, you ever taken the dollar bus from Philly to New York to Chinatown bus? Yeah, I have. That's a great bus. The people on that it's not a fucking dollar though. It was a there's some that are five bucks. No, no, no, no. If you book away ahead of time, it's like $20. I was like, this is a fucking line calling him $1. I got on the I don't know why I'm swearing. The anger came out. I put this. Swearings. OK. Sometimes when I got last time I was on the Chinatown bus, there was like a rooster walking down the aisle. Actually, yeah. Watch. Chilling. It was awesome. Well, there's a nice part of your film with the rooster. Hmm. I forgot about that. Yeah. That felt almost fake.
所以，特别是如果你正在跨国旅行或其他什么的，你有坐过从费城到纽约的美元巴士到唐人街巴士吗？是的，我有。那是一辆很棒的巴士。上面的人虽然不止一美元。有的是五美元。不，不，不。如果提前订票，就像是20美元。我当时真的气愤说这是一美元的车次。我上去之后不知道为什么就开始骂人。愤怒像泄洪一样涌出来。我说的话不好听。有时候，上次我坐唐人街巴士时，巴士上还有一只公鸡在走廊上走。其实，是的。看着挺悠闲的。太棒了。嗯，你的电影里有一部分是和公鸡相关的。嗯，我都忘了。是的，那感觉几乎是假的。
Yeah. Did you plant the rooster? No, the rooster. There's a place in Ebor City in Tampa where roosters walk around all the time. And we had a rooster park there right by the main drag for. But did I say we had a rooster park? We had the RV park, just Ebor City for a long time and rooster laid eggs in the undercarriage. Nice. Back to the Elgasto brakes thing though. Yeah. So it was lots. It was really fun making it. And then we started Elgasto brakes in September of 2019. Six months later, the country shuts down and everything just hits the fan. I was actually here in Austin when it shut down. I was on 6th Street. I remember the, I don't just hang out on 6th Street all the time, but I was just here. Yeah. Come on. Just be honest. I do like 6th Street. Yeah, I like East Austin better, but I like 6th Street too. So anyways, the NBA shuts down. Everything's shutting down. And I, so I went down to the 36 and I asked this doorman. I was like, you guys ever going to shut down? He was like, fuck no, bro. The 36 never closes. And I was like, all right. We'll see about that next day plywood. And then I was like, all right, I thought my career was over when COVID hit. I was like, what are we going to do? Nothing's happening anymore. There's no more parties or Talladega races or Burning Man's to go to. So I went back to Seattle and the RV and I just spent four months just depressed, living in the RV, trying to figure out what would happen. But all gas no breaks went on still.
是的。你种了公鸡吗？不，就是公鸡。在坦帕的埃博市有一个地方，那里总是有公鸡在四处走动。我们在那里开了一个公鸡公园，就在主要道路旁边。但我说过我们有一个公鸡公园吗？我们只是在埃博市有一个房车公园，公鸡在底盘下生蛋。很好。但是回到 Elgasto 刹车的事情。是的。制作它真的很有趣。然后我们在2019年9月创立了 Elgasto 刹车。六个月后，整个国家关闭，一切都乱了。当它关闭时，我实际上在奥斯汀。我当时在第六街。我不会一直呆在第六街，但我就在这里。是的。诚实点。我确实喜欢第六街。是的，我更喜欢东奥斯汀，但我也喜欢第六街。总之，NBA停摆了。一切都在关闭。所以我走到36号大街，问门卫他们会不会关闭。他说，该死的，伙计，36号永远不会关门。我说，好吧，我们明天看看，第二天就铺上了木板。然后我想，当 COVID 传播时，我的职业生涯似乎就结束了。我想，我们该怎么办？再也没有派对或塔拉迪加赛车或去的燃烧人节了。所以我回到西雅图，住在房车里，度过了四个月的沮丧时光，试图弄清楚接下来会发生什么。但 All Gas No Brakes 还在继续。
Well, this was the craziest thing about that period of time is that when, when COVID hit, I'm sure you remember everything turned political overnight. In Seattle, if you went to a house party, you can get canceled. You know, because people were like, Oh, you're a super spreader. So if you wanted to socialize, even with the group of four or more, you had to do so with your phone, stamina turned off. And a lot of people were doing a hyper social policing at that time. Beyond that, in the South and in more conservative places, they were doing the opposite. They were trying to prove that they could hang out 500 deep with no mask to make a statement against the establishment. So you had this polarization that led to more division. And that's when the anti-vax protests started. And I went to Sacramento and the passion was unreal. This is about, this is about two months after the COVID lockdowns began. And that was my first political video. Was it the Sacramento, the California State Capitol and Sacramento documenting the, they called it the Freedom Rally, but that's typically like anti-vax stuff.
那个时期最疯狂的事情是，当新冠疫情爆发时，你肯定还记得一夜之间一切都变成政治问题了。在西雅图，如果你参加了一个家庭派对，就可能会被抵制，因为人们会说你是超级传播者。所以，即使想要社交，甚至是跟四个人以上的朋友聚会，你也必须关闭手机定位功能。那时候很多人都在进行极端社交管控。此外，在南方和更保守的地方，他们则相反，试图证明他们可以不戴口罩与500人一起聚会，以对抗当权派。因此，出现了更多的分裂和对立。这也导致了反疫苗抗议活动的开始。我去了萨克拉门托，那种激情是无与伦比的。那是在新冠封锁开始大约两个月后，那是我第一次拍政治视频。我拍摄的地点是萨克拉门托的加利福尼亚州议会，记录了他们所谓的“自由集会”，但其实通常是与反疫苗有关的活动。
And it was real intensity. And that video was my most successful to date at that time. And so I was like, okay, am I a political reporter now? Am I covering politics? Like what's going on? What were the interviews that made up that video? What kind of what style of questions were you asking? What? I don't know if you remember, but I was actually scared when the pandemic started. I thought that this is something that might kill us all based upon what I was consuming. And so I'd ask people, what do you think about this lockdown? And I've had people say, you know, I'm immune compromised. If I get exposed to COVID, I have a 95% fatality rate. But guess what? I'd rather be free and dead than alive, living in fear. And I was like, wow.
这种强烈感受是真实的。那个视频当时是我迄今为止最成功的作品。所以我想，好吧，我现在成为政治记者了吗？我在报道政治吗？那个视频中的采访是怎么进行的？你问了什么风格的问题？我不知道你是否记得，但当疫情开始时，我其实感到害怕。根据我所看到的信息，我认为这可能会致我们于死地。所以我问人们，你怎么看这次封锁？我听到有人说，你知道，我的免疫力很低。如果我接触到COVID，我有95%的死亡率。但你知道吗？我宁可自由而死，也不想活在恐惧中。我当时觉得，哇。
So it was just stuff along those lines. You had some San Diego surfers there complaining about the beaches being shut down and such awesome waves were coming. Yeah. It's interesting how that really brought out the worst in people. Oh, yeah. I'm not sure why that is fear, maybe paranoia. I don't know. It really divided people like we're alone lies, as you mentioned, like triple mask yourself or fight for your country. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Why is it two options? That is literally what it was. Yeah. It's wild. And both groups think they're fighting for the survival of something. Yeah. And so that's where you really run into problems when you have two polarize groups who both think that their cause is for the common good mutual understanding is impossible at that juncture. And so after three months of almost every everybody being locked down, George Floyd happens.
所以只是类似这样的事情。你有一些圣地亚哥的冲浪者在那里抱怨海滩关闭，但是有这么棒的浪来了。是的。有趣的是，这真的使人们展现出最坏的一面。哦，是的。我不确定为什么会有这种恐惧，也许是偏执狂。我不知道。这确实使人们分裂，就像你提到的，要么就三层口罩自己，要么就为你的国家而战。是的。没错。为什么只有两个选择呢？这确实就是情况。是的。这太疯狂了。而且两个团体都认为他们正在为某种生存而战。是的。所以当你有两个截然不同的团体，都认为他们的事业符合了共同利益时，相互理解在那一刻就是不可能的。3个月的封锁后，乔治·弗洛伊德事件发生了。
And I remember I saw the third precinct burning on my phone in Minneapolis. And everyone says, Andrew, you have to go cover this. And I'm somebody like I said, you know, police violence has been close to my heart since I was a kid. And my first thought is I can't do that. I'm a comedic reporter. I can't go to Minneapolis and cover this. It'll be the end of my career. And I had a friend named Lacey who I went to college with. And she told me she was like, bro, this is your chance for you to do something serious. You can actually create a meaningful piece of reporting like you always wanted to before quarter confessions. And you can turn all gas no breaks into a new source. So I called Reed, who is the CEO of the company that owned all gas no breaks.
我记得我在明尼阿波利斯看到第三警区在我的手机上燃烧。所有人都说，安德鲁，你必须去报道这件事。就像我说的，警察暴力从我还是个孩子时起就深深触动我了。我第一个想法是我办不到这件事。我是一个幽默记者，我不能去明尼阿波利斯报道这个事件。这将是我职业生涯的终结。我有一个大学同学叫莱西，她告诉我，兄弟，这是你做些有意义的事情的机会。你可以真正创作一部让人印象深刻的报道，就像你之前总想做的那样。你可以把所有的油门都不采访转变成一个新的消息来源。于是我给所有油门都不采访的公司CEO里德打了个电话。
And I was like, look, man, I want to go to Minneapolis. I was in Orlando at the time. I was actually at the sausage castle. And he said, he said the sausage castle. Yeah, the juggalo mansion. Oh, right. Yeah. It's called the sausage castle. So I'm watching Minneapolis unfold. Uh, on Lake Street where it was burning. And I got to the Orlando airport and I booked a flight without, I booked it on my own card. I didn't consult my boss or anything. And I was sitting in my seat on the flight. And he, he straight up told me he's like, if you fuck this up and this destroys the brand, we're getting a different host.
我当时就说，伙计，我想去明尼阿波利斯。那时我在奥兰多，实际上是在香肠城堡。他说，他说香肠城堡。是的，那个朋克乐队居所。哦，对，就是香肠城堡。所以我看着明尼阿波利斯的情况发展。在发生火灾的莱克街上。到了奥兰多机场，我自己用卡订了一架飞机票，没有和老板商量。坐在飞机上的座位上，他直言不讳地告诉我，如果你搞砸了，毁了品牌，我们要找其他主持人。
This, if you mess this up and you turn our, our, our, our show away from a party show about drinking and drugs and all that stuff and you make this a social justice show that you're done. But I was like, I just turned my phone off. I got to the Minneapolis airport on the second night of the riots. And when I got to the airport, there was national guardsmen in the airport and there was a, it was like a call of duty mission and the one in the airport.
如果你搞砸了这件事，把我们的节目从一个关于饮酒和毒品等等的派对节目改变成了一个社会正义节目，那么你就完蛋了。但我只是把手机关了。我在明尼阿波利斯机场待了两个夜晚。当我到达机场时，机场里有国民警卫队员，感觉就像参加《使命召唤》一样。
And on the speaker, they say, if you're arriving here right now, you are not permitted to go anywhere outside of the airport. National guardsmen will escort you to your Uber or to your car. They're going to take a picture of your ID. They're going to figure out where you're going. You are not permitted to go outside tonight. And so Lacey picks me up. There's two people in the back, two of her home girls wearing like sheisty masks. I'm like, what are we doing? What, where are we going? And she goes, we're going to go film the riot.
演讲者说，如果你现在抵达这里，你不被允许离开机场外的任何地方。国民警卫队将护送你去Uber或者你的车里。他们会拍下你的身份证照片。他们会弄清楚你要去哪里。你今晚不被允许外出。然后莱西来接我。后座里有两个人，两个戴着可疑面具的女孩。我问：“我们在做什么？我们要去哪？”她说：“我们要去拍暴动的影片。”
We're going to Lake Street. And so we drive down there. Kmart is burning. Target is burning. Everything is on fire. She has the Sony a7. She gives me a microphone and she's like, go talk to that guy. And that was a guy with a Molotov cocktail in his hand who had just burned Kmart down. And so I go, what should I ask him? She goes, what's on your mind? So I walk up to him and I'm like, what's on your mind? He said something like everything that was happening here was supposed to happen.
我们要去莱克街。于是我们开车去那里。Kmart正在燃烧。Target也在燃烧。所有东西都着火了。她有索尼a7。她给了我一个麦克风，然后说，去和那个人谈谈。那个人手里拿着一个燃烧瓶，刚刚烧毁了Kmart。所以我走过去，问他应该问什么。她说，问问他在想什么。于是我走上前去，问他在想什么。他说，这里发生的一切都是注定的。
This is how we feel. Is it right? No. Is this going to benefit the community? No. But this is how we feel. This is how we feel. That's pretty powerful. Yeah. That's through a lot of the, the documenting that you do. This is how we feel is like, yeah, screaming through that. Yeah. And I noticed that aside from a group called Unicorn Riot, there was no one else actually interviewing the protesters. The local news was on the bridge. 15, not 15, but five blocks away.
这就是我们的感受。这样对吗？不对。这会让社区受益吗？不会。但这就是我们的感受。这就是我们的感受。这是非常强烈的感受。是的。这是通过你们所做的记录工作展示出来的。这就是我们的感受，就像是在呐喊一样。是的。我注意到除了一个名为独角兽暴乱的团体外，没有其他人实际上在采访抗议者。当地新闻报道的地点在桥上，而不是在15个街区，而是5个街区之外。
You know, filming just the scene itself, just at the fire. But I saw some crazy things off camera too. I saw. So there was kind of two groups there. There was like the, the, the anarchists, more mobilized protesters. And then there was just mostly African American community members who were just pissed, who had nothing to do with the organized resistance. And they were all kind of joining forces to riot. And there was this anarchist kid who ran up to White Castle with like a Molotov cocktail.
你知道的，拍摄只是场景本身，就是火场。但是我也看到了一些疯狂的事情发生在不在摄像机镜头里。我看到了。所以那里有两个组别。一边是更激进的无政府主义者，更有组织的抗议者。另一边则是大多是非裔美国社区成员，他们只是愤怒，与组织好的抵抗活动无关。他们都联合在一起发动骚乱。有一个无政府主义者的小孩跑到白宫城堡带着一个燃烧弹。
And he was about, he's about to throw it at White Castle in this black deer run up to him and grabbed his arm and he's like, nah, we fuck with White Castle. And I was like, what? And so you see, if you go on Lake Street, every business is burned. Yeah. White Castle remains. I also saw these dudes ripped this ATM out of a bank and hit it with sledgehammers. They were a group of friends hitting it with sledgehammers, right? They didn't go sledgehammers.
他正要把它丢向怀特城堡，这时一个黑色的鹿跑过来抓住了他的胳膊，说我们不想惹怀特城堡。我感到很惊讶。你知道吗，如果你去雷克街，每家企业都被烧毁了，但怀特城堡依然存在。我还看到一群人从银行抢走了这台自动取款机，用大锤猛砸它。他们是一群朋友一起用大锤砸它，没有用破坏行为。
Boom. All of a sudden, money starts spraying out of the ATM. Like I've never seen some shit like this, like pouring out of it. And then these group of friends who were just united and getting it open, start fighting each other for the money as it's flying out of it. And so there was just, it was like a like Joker from the Batman's army type type vibes. But I got shot in the ass by the National Guard. It was no good. Like a what, Robert Bullitt. Yeah. Yeah. Not not.
突然间，ATM机里开始喷射出钱来。就像我从未见过的情景，钱就像从它里面倾泻而出。然后，这群刚刚团结起来想要打开ATM机的朋友们开始争夺飞出的钱。所以，就像是来自蝙蝠侠敌人小丑的军队的氛围。但我却被国民警卫队在屁股上打了一枪。那种感觉真糟糕。 Robert Bullitt，对，没错。
I feel like honestly it hurt. I'm not sure what I was expecting is an answer to that question. Yeah, but I liked it. It was good. Yeah. And then after that, I posted the video and it was very well received. And that was the pivotal point where I realized that everything was going to change. I mean, there was a still kind of a community government to the way you do conversations with the way you edit. So did you see yourself as a potentially like a John Stewart type of character?
我觉得说实话，那时候受伤了。我不确定我在期待什么答案。是的，但我喜欢那个视频。很好。然后之后，我发布了视频，得到了很好的反响。那是一个关键点，我意识到一切都将改变。我的意思是，你的对话方式和编辑方式中还有一种社区政府的风格。那你觉得自己可能会成为类似约翰·斯图尔特的角色吗？
But at first, but you know, I just think human beings are just funny in general. Yeah, the absurdity of it. Cool thing about John Stewart is like, I generally like to say that anybody who works for corporate media, whether it be Comedy Central or anything owned by Time Warner, Fox, MSNBC, they can't say what they want because in order to climb up in those organizations, you have to appease the narrative of the company that you're working for to rise in the ranks.
但是最开始，你知道，我觉得人类总体上就是很有趣的。是的，这就是荒诞之处。关于约翰·斯图尔特的酷事是，我一般喜欢说任何在企业媒体工作的人，无论是喜剧中心还是时代华纳、福克斯、MSNBC旗下的任何公司，他们不能说他们想说的，因为要在这些组织里晋升，你必须迎合你工作的公司的叙事来爬升职位。
John Stewart, I feel like has so much clout in the media world that I'm pretty sure he can say whatever he wants. Like I actually don't think that John Stewart is controlled by anybody. I really don't. I think that he can go on the show and talk about whatever. I do think that certain people have broken the brains of the COVID broke the brains of a lot of really great people I admire. Trump broke the brains of a lot of people I admire, like to where Trump, Trump, Drangement syndrome became a thing. Like you can't see the world quite as clearly because of it. And I think John Stewart is quite a genius at like stepping away, even though the world needed him in that time, stepping away during that moment of Trump and coming back now, sort of being able to reflect being those sort of other statesmen. My favorite John Stewart moment that illustrates that perfectly is whenever he went on the Colbert show. And he was just joking around with Stephen Colbert, who I think is a full blown propagandist about the Wuhan lab league theory. He was just goofing around. He was like, it's called the coronavirus lab. And they had it before. And now what do we have? And it was like, you could see in Stephen Colbert that he was like gun to his head type shit where he's like, John, John, stop joking about that. Yeah. And that made me realize like, Oh, everything that John Stewart did, especially for the 911 first responders, he's a true American and not in the sense of like the different political parties want you to believe is an American. Not a do your part in social distance American, not a, you know, wave your Trump flag in the back of your pickup truck American, just a guy who genuinely stands up for what's right.
约翰·斯图尔特在媒体界拥有很大的影响力，我觉得他可以说任何他想说的话。我真的不认为约翰·斯图尔特受任何人控制。我觉得他可以在节目中谈论任何事情。我确实认为某些人让很多我钦佩的人的大脑崩溃了。特朗普让我钦佩的很多人的大脑崩溃了，让特朗普症状成为了一种现象。你因此无法清晰地看到世界。我认为约翰·斯图尔特是个天才，能够在那段特朗普时期保持距离，而现在回来，能够反思并成为那种其他政治家。我最喜欢的约翰·斯图尔特时刻是他在科尔伯特秀上的一次，他和斯蒂芬·科尔伯特说笑，我认为科尔伯特是一个完全的宣传者，关于武汉实验室起源理论。他们只是在开玩笑，他说，这叫冠状病毒实验室。他们之前就有了，现在我们又得到了什么？斯蒂芬·科尔伯特显然很尴尬，好像是被逼着说，约翰，请停止开玩笑。那让我意识到，约翰·斯图尔特所做的一切，尤其是为911一线救援人员所做的，他是一个真正的美国人，不是按照不同政党想让你相信的美国人标准，也不只是一个社交距离的美国人，或者一个在卡车后备箱里挥舞特朗普旗帜的美国人，只是一个真心支持正义的人。
There is a degree to which you can be in those positions easily captured by groupthink, though, even when you're not controlled by bosses and money and all that kind of stuff. I think John Stewart is mostly resistant, but it's hard. His position is difficult. I think he's done the best job though. If someone in this obviously Democrat connected. Yeah. Corporate media economy, he seems to be the freest talker. Yeah.
有一定程度的可能性，你会很容易受到群体思维的影响，即使你并不受老板、金钱或其他因素的控制。我认为约翰·史都华大多数时候是抵抗的，但这很困难。他的立场很艰难。我认为他做得最好了。如果有人在这个明显与民主党相关的公司媒体经济体系中，他似乎是最自由的发言者。是的。
So this is when you first became famous. I'm not even sure what fame means. I mean, I just see myself as me. Why did you get the shades? Oh, that was on tour. That was, that's a whole, the shades. That's a dark time, but this. I didn't make like some meme really. I don't even know. I didn't, I didn't make journalism to like become famous. Yeah. I made it to give people a platform to share their stories. It just so happens that people liked it enough to where I became sort of famous. But, you know, if I could go back and not be the on camera guy and just platform the stories, I would. But the reality is people need a face to attach to the stuff they like. And so that's just how it is. But yeah, I would say right around Minneapolis protest, Portland protests, Proud Boys rally time when I was really in there is when I started to be acclaimed, it's more than just like a ambush meme, Lord. Did that have a fact on you, the fame? Not at that point. Not at that point.
所以这是你第一次变得出名的时候。我甚至不确定名声是什么意思。我是说，我只把自己看作是我自己。你为什么要戴墨镜？哦，那是在巡回演出的时候。那时候，戴墨镜，那是一个黑暗的时期。我并没有刻意变成某种网络迷因。我甚至不知道。我并不是为了成名才从事新闻工作的。是的，我做它是为了让人们有一个平台来分享他们的故事。巧合的是人们很喜欢，以至于我变得有点出名。但是，你知道，如果可以回去的话，我会选择不做镜头下的人，而是只搭建一个平台让故事传播。但现实是人们需要一个面孔与他们喜欢的东西联系在一起。所以就是这样。但是是的，我会说大约在明尼阿波利斯抗议事件、波特兰抗议事件、骄傲男孩集会时，当我真的深入其中时，我开始受到赞誉，不只是一个匆忙出现的网络迷因。那时，名声对你有影响吗？那时候并没有。
So like you were still able to have a lightness to you. Well, the country was basically closed. Yeah. So it wasn't like there was a street to walk down where people were like, there's that guy. So getting famous, famous during COVID made it. So when the country reopened, it was as if like, I, my life really changed because I was like, Oh, all these fans I made during COVID are like seeing me out of the bar. This is cool. Yeah. It first famous, the best thing ever, because you can go anywhere in the country and these spaces that you normally feel a bit insecure in, like a local dive bar, a cool restaurant, a coffee shop where you just be another guy. All of a sudden they're like, Oh my God, I'm a big fan. They give you like free stuff. You get this sense of acceptance that you never would have got before. So, but there's also the dark side. Well, it's all love, man. I mean, I just speak to the first part you're saying is there's so much love that people have in this show. It's amazing. I'm sure you know what it's like. That's beautiful.
所以就像你仍然能保持一种轻松的状态。嗯，这个国家基本上是关闭的。是的。所以并不像有一条街可以走下去，人们会说“那个人”。所以在COVID期间变得出名，真的很不错。所以当国家重新开放时，就好像我，我的生活真的改变了，因为我觉得哦，在 COVID期间我得到的这些粉丝现在在酒吧外看到了我。这很酷。是的。成名，是最棒的事情，因为你可以去这个国家的任何地方，而这些地方你通常会感到有点不安全，比如一个当地的酒吧，一个酷餐厅，一个咖啡店，你只是另一个人而已。突然间他们会说，“哦，天哪，我是你的忠实粉丝。”他们会免费给你东西。你会得到一种你以前永远不会得到的被接纳的感觉。但是，也有黑暗的一面。嗯，这一切都是爱，伙计。我的意思是，我要说的第一部分是人们在这个节目中有很多爱。这太棒了。我相信你知道那种感觉。那真的太美好了。
That only downside of fame, really, is that you can't really be anonymous again. And you have to seek out more strange environments to be anonymous in. Like right now I live in the desert, basically. And I want to live in the middle of nowhere in the Mojave Desert. Not because I'm scared of people, but because I just want to be like curious me again, who people don't know. And I can ask questions to people that I'm interested in without them going. I remember I see I see you here. I see you there. That's that's the main thing. That's what I loved about hitchhiking. Yeah, just to have anonymity. Yes, best. But both are great. Complaining about fame is just the lamest shit. Yeah. We should go to furry conventions that you covered. It weren't wearing, worn outfit. I love furries. I should do that. Yeah, we should go to go. I go all the time. We should go together. What's your favorite outfit? No, I have not. I think you might like it more than you think. I listen. Maybe I'm just afraid to face quite a really am.
名声的唯一缺点就是你不再能够匿名。你不得不去寻找更奇怪的环境来保持匿名。就像现在我基本上住在沙漠里。我想住在莫哈韦沙漠中间的一个地方。不是因为我害怕人群，而是因为我想要再次成为那个被人不认识的好奇的我。我可以向我感兴趣的人提问，而他们不会说，我记得我在这里看到过你。这就是我喜欢搭便车的原因。只是为了拥有匿名性。是的，最棒。但两者都很好。抱怨名声只是最无聊的事情。是的。我们应该参加你报道过的毛皮者聚会，但不穿着毛皮外套。我喜欢毛皮者。我应该去参加。是的，我们应该去。我经常去。我们应该一起去。你最喜欢的外套是什么？不，我还没有。我觉得你可能会喜欢比你想象的更多。我听着。也许我只是害怕直面我真正的自己。
Yeah, your first son of the true Lex will come out when you're. Yeah. In a 36 dollar. Everything is possible. Lizard? Is that what they go with? Well, scalies. Are the lizard furries. Yeah. And there's a big division in the community where they think scale is kind of douchebag, you know, the scale. These suits are more expensive. They're about seven grand, whereas a first suit is 3600. So and they're also taller. Yeah. So when the scale is pull up to the furfest, it's like, ah, fuck the reptiles. Fuck the reptiles. I can get behind that. I liked like more, more like a teddy bear type of guy. Yeah. I think bears, I what's that maybe squirrels. I don't know. Oh, squirrels are so cool. Yeah. Squirrels. Yeah. I want to put a GoPro on one and just see what the hell they do.
是的，你真正的莱克斯的第一个儿子将在你出生时出生。是的，在36美元。一切皆有可能。蜥蜴？他们是这么称呼的吗？嗯，有鳞片的（装扮者）。蜥蜴毛皮穿着者。是的。社区内存在一个巨大的分歧，他们认为有鳞片的有点傲慢，你知道，有鳞片。这些套装更昂贵。大约是7000美元，而第一个套装是3600美元。而且它们也更高大。是的。因此，当有鳞片的参加兽展时，就像，“啊，见鬼的爬行动物。见鬼的爬行动物。”我可以理解这种想法。我更喜欢像泰迪熊那样的类型。是的。我觉得熊，可能松鼠。我不知道。哦，松鼠真酷。是的。松鼠。是的。我想给其中一个穿上GoPro，看看它们到底在做什么。
Um, you were talking about that conversation with the guy at the head of doing things media. How did that end up? Well, I mean, I want to clear up a few things. Read the CEO of doing things. I actually think he's a good guy. I think that he was just trying to run a business. He saw what was working for his brand, which is very college centric, very festival centric. And he was right to think that journalism and especially coverage of sensitive topics, like COVID or, you know, police brutality would definitely not work on merch. You know, you're not going to sell a picture of me interviewing someone at a riot. Like you would me interviewing a furry or a drunk dude in Alabama. It doesn't work the same. So it was a lot, a lot harder to monetize, not just because of a YouTube censorship. But also just because of the sensitive, sensitive nature of the content. So Reed was looking out for himself as a businessman. There was a different partner. I'm not going to say his name. There was more connected in Hollywood. I think he's responsible for the, the collapse of the show. What was the collapse like?
嗯，你在谈论那次与做事媒体负责人的对话。最后怎么样了？嗯，我的意思是，我想澄清一些事情。读一下做事公司的CEO。我实际上认为他是个好人。我认为他只是想经营一家企业。他看到了适合他品牌的运营方式，这个品牌非常以大学为中心，非常以节庆为中心。他认为新闻工作，尤其是涉及敏感话题的报道，比如COVID或者警察暴力绝对不适合做商品。你不会卖掉我采访乱事中的某人的照片。就像你不会卖掉我采访一个毛皮粉丝或者一个阿拉巴马州的醉酒小伙子的照片一样。这不是同一回事。因此，这在商业上要难得多，不仅仅因为YouTube的审查制度。还因为内容的敏感性。所以，Reed是作为一名商人为自己着想。还有一个不同的合作伙伴，我不会说他的名字。他在好莱坞的关联更多。我认为他是这档节目崩溃的罪魁祸首。崩溃是怎么样的？
What was so right as the country's reopening, I get a DM from Eric Wairheim of Tim and Eric. And I'm covering something called the UFO mega conference in Lathlin, Nevada, which is a beautiful Rivertown. And, you know, he, he, he, he ends me and says, let's make a show. And I'm like, oh, shit, is this real? You know, I grew up such a big fan of Nathan for you and the Eric Andre show. And those are produced by their company. Absolutely. So I was like, hell yeah, let's do it. Um, three days later, I get a call. It says Jonah Hill wants to hop on board. And I can't believe this, you know, I'm still on the RV and I'm in Lathlin, Nevada. So I'm like, Jonah Hill, super bad. Are you shitting me right now? So I was excited. And, uh, oh, and Moneyball Jonah Hill is a great actor. Oh, he's great. And great all around. Yeah. And so credit deserves. Well, I mean, he's got the credit by now, but still deserves more. So basically just within a week, I assembled this super team of Tim and Eric. And super bad team. Yeah. Pretty much of Tim and Eric. I'm so sorry. I was good and Jonah Hill. And yeah, we just pitched it around every single TV network rejected it. I don't know why. And they mainly did that because I was in this weird situation where I had signed a contract with doing things media that I didn't realize was called a 360 deal. That's what they use in like the rap world.
乡村重新开放，我收到了Tim和Eric的Eric Wairheim的私信。我正在报道内华达州拉思林的UFO大会，那是一个美丽的河滨小镇。他联系我说，让我们制作一个节目。我想，哦，这是真的吗？我从小就是《为你而来》和《Eric安德烈秀》的忠实粉丝，而这些节目都是由他们的公司制作的。所以我当然愿意。三天后，我接到电话，说乔纳·希尔想参与进来。我简直不敢相信，当时我还在拉思林的房车上。所以我说，乔纳·希尔，超级坏。这真的不是在开玩笑吗？我感到兴奋。哦，《金钱战》的乔纳·希尔是位很棒的演员。他真的很棒，而且全方位都很出色。所以，基本上仅仅在一周内，我组建了这支超豪华的团队，有Tim和Eric，超级坏团队，乔纳·希尔。我们将这个节目推荐给每个电视网，但他们都拒绝了。我不知道为什么。主要是因为我签了一份与Doing Things Media的合同，我没有意识到这是一份全方位合同。这是他们在说唱界使用的术语。
Basically means that I can't do anything outside of them without them getting a hundred percent of the money. So if I was to go work at Sabaro or Quiznos while I was working for all gas, no breaks, they would get my 500 bucks a week from the sandwich spot. I was unable to earn any outside income. Um, I didn't read the fine print because I was 21 and like I told you, 45 K a year RV sounds sick. And basically the TV networks were like, why would we buy a show if the digital brand is going to be running at the same time? Cause they didn't want to stop doing all gas, no breaks to make a TV show. They wanted all gas, no breaks to continue as a web show while all gas, no breaks as a future TV show at Showtime or Hulu or somewhere like that was also concurrently running, which is impossible for one man to do. And so every TV network said, okay, we're not doing that. We want an exclusive rights contract with this guy.
基本上意味着如果我在外面做任何事情而不把钱全部给他们，他们就会拿走百分之百的钱。所以，如果我在"萨巴罗"或者"Quiznos"工作时，同时也在"全力以赴，无休止"工作，他们就会从三明治店那里拿走我每周500美元。我不能赚取任何外部收入。嗯，我没有仔细阅读合同条款，因为那时我21岁，而且就像我告诉你的那样，年薪45,000美元听起来很棒。基本上，电视网络表示，如果数字品牌同时在运行，他们为什么要购买节目呢？因为他们不想停止"全力以赴，无休止"来制作电视节目。他们希望"全力以赴，无休止"作为网络节目继续运行，而"全力以赴，无休止"作为未来的电视节目，在Showtime或者Hulu等地方同时运行，这对一个人来说是不可能的。所以每个电视网络都说：好的，我们不想这样做。我们希望与这个家伙签订独家权利合同。
Next, oh yeah, this is crazy to think about. It all happened so fast. So Jonah Hill says, A24 films wants to do a movie instead of a show and they're going to let you keep the digital brand running. So this meant that I could keep doing my Instagram stuff with doing things media slash all gas, no breaks while making an A24 movie with Jonah Hill and Tim and Eric. So it was just like, I was excited. It's sound, sounded perfect. So they said, okay, what do you want to make a movie about? And I told them, okay, here's what's going to happen in 2020. In 2020, if Trump wins, there's going to be riots across the country. The major cities are going to burn down. If Trump loses the militias and his loyal supporters are going to try to have a coup in DC. That's what I said. And I said, so I'm going to follow the lead up to whoever wins the election. And I'm going to document what happens after. So they said, okay. And so I was to begin filming in late October, you know, during the campaign trail, maybe mid October up until November....
接下来，哦耶，想想就觉得很疯狂。一切发生得太快了。所以乔纳希尔说，A24电影公司想要做一个电影而不是一部节目，他们会让你继续经营数字品牌。这意味着我可以继续在Instagram上做一些媒体事务/全力以赴的事情，同时和乔纳希尔、蒂姆和埃里克一起拍一部A24电影。所以我很兴奋。听起来太完美了。他们说，好的，你想拍一部什么样的电影？我告诉他们，2020年会发生什么。如果特朗普赢了，全国将爆发暴乱，主要城市将被焚毁。如果特朗普输了，民兵和他的忠实支持者将试图在华盛顿发动政变。这就是我说的。所以我要跟踪谁赢得选举的结果，记录选举后发生的事情。他们说，好的。于是我要在10月底开始拍摄，你知道，在竞选活动期间，也许是10月中旬直至11月。
and then in the following months to see what would happen. Um, this meant that I couldn't film anything for all gas, no breaks, the digital show, because I had to dedicate a hundred percent of my time to making this perfect movie. Yes. Still, one of the partners at doing things media was demanding that I not only produce the movie, but also more content for the show. And I told them, there's only so many hours in a day, man, that's going to be impossible. And I said, if you want it to be possible, I can make it work, but I want to have half of the monetization from the show, 50% profit split, which I thought is fair. If you want me to do double work when I was getting almost nothing before, split me in on the profits. They fired us immediately. Me and my two childhood friends who I hired to work on the show with me were all out of a job as we were filming for the now HBO project.
然后在接下来的几个月里看会发生什么。这意味着我无法为“不停地前进”的数字节目拍摄任何东西，因为我必须全身心投入制作这部完美的电影。是的。但是，Doing Things Media的一位合作伙伴要求我不仅要制作这部电影，还要为节目制作更多内容。我告诉他们，一天只有那么多时间，这是不可能的。我说，如果你希望这是可能的，我可以让它发生，但我想从节目获得一半的赚钱，即50%的利润分成，我认为这是公平的。如果你希望我做双份的工作，而之前我几乎得到的是微不足道的，那就和我分成利润。他们立即解雇了我们。我和我聘请一起为节目工作的两位童年朋友都失去了工作，因为我们正在为现在的HBO项目拍摄。
We got our fire notices, the guts on those, on that, and that person to, because you should be owning probably close to a hundred percent of it. I think so too, but they didn't see it that way because they figured we made the initial investment. We discovered him as how they looked at it. So it wasn't Reed, but it was the other partner who wasn't Reed who said, we have tons of verbatim. He said this, we have, I have tons of connections in the comedy world. We can replace Andrew overnight. I'm not sure why he made that miscalculation. I wish he would have thought about it twice. I wish he didn't have to end like that, but it did. Why do people do that? Like what's the benefit of acting like that? I think you can part amicably without the drama. I think all betrayal in anything like that is motivated by self-interest, whether that be economic success, social stability, whatever it is. They figured that because I was being such a burden and asking for the profit that they could just release me and find someone equally talented and not split them in so they can make more money.
我们收到了解聘通知，其中包括对那些，对那个人的内在优势，因为你应该拥有其中近乎百分之百。我也认同，但他们并不这样看，因为他们认为我们进行了最初的投资。他们认为我们如何发现他。所以不是瑞德说的，而是另一个不是瑞德的合作伙伴说，我们有大量的逐字逐句的记录。他说过这样，我在喜剧界有很多关系。我们可以在一夜之间替换安德鲁。我不确定为什么他会犯这个错误的估算。我希望他会三思而后行。我希望事情不会以这种方式结束，但却发生了。人们为什么要这样做？行为背后有什么好处？我认为你可以和睦地分手而不是制造戏剧。我觉得在任何背叛的事情中都是出于自私的动机，无论是经济上的成功、社会稳定，或者其他什么。他们认为因为我成为了如此的负担，并且要求利润，他们可以释放我，找到同样有才华的人来取代我，并没有与他们共事，这样他们可以赚更多钱。
I see. Well, that's a stupid way to think. People think like that, man. People who are the word I use is like sidekick syndrome. Like when people are kind of a part of the production, but they're not integral, they start thinking that the front man doesn't matter or something and that the brains of the operation are actually the people on the periphery. And so they start to believe that they can just shift things around and the audience won't care, not realizing that I was actually the one who created the show and that the lore of the show is connected to my rise outside of their jurisdiction, if that makes sense. Like the people who watch all gas, no breaks, watched quarter confessions and read the book.
我明白了。嗯，那种想法很愚蠢。人们会这样想，朋友。我用的词是“边缘综合症”。就像当人们有点参与制作，但并非核心部分时，他们开始认为主唱并不重要，或者大脑操作的实际是那些边缘的人。于是他们开始相信他们可以轻易改变事物，观众不会在意，而不意识到实际上是我创造了这个节目，而这个节目的传奇和我的崛起是与他们的管辖范围之外联系在一起的，如果你能理解的话。就像那些看完了“全是气氛，没有休息”的人，也看了“季度告白”并读了这本书。
And so, you know, this happens also not just financially, but just with people that sort of part of a team, but they don't really contribute creatively to the team and they, they force their opinion or pressure. Yeah, whether it's constant, like from editors or all that kind of stuff, or from sponsors or this, there's pressure they create when they, when the creator alone should be celebrated and have all the power, because they're the ones that are creating the thing. In a way, I have sympathy because I can't relate to that because I've always been the front man of my own projects by design. So I'm not sure what it's like to be like someone's owner from a content perspective. I don't understand the challenges they face. Maybe there was something that I didn't understand. I don't know.
因此，你知道，这种情况不仅在财政上发生，还会在团队中的某些人身上发生，他们并没有真正为团队做出创造性贡献，却强加自己的意见或压力。是的，无论是来自编辑，赞助商还是其他方面的持续压力，他们制造了压力，而本应该受到赞美并拥有所有权力的应该是创作者，因为他们才是创造出这一切的人。从某种意义上说，我可以理解，因为我无法理解这种感受，因为我一直是我自己项目的领导者。所以我不确定作为某人的所有者，从内容角度来看会是什么感受。我不理解他们所面临的挑战。也许有些事情我并不明白。我不知道。
True. Well, oftentimes if you own a thing like this, like this company, you do think about brand. Right. And then maybe you have a big picture idea of what brand means and that that can be at tension with the creative project, right? Yeah. Like, but ultimately freedom for the creators is the best kind of brand. Yeah. I remember all three of us who worked on all gas, no brakes got fired at the same time. And we were in that we were in the RV that Tim and Eric's company bought for us, which is a bigger RV in the parking lot, parking lot of a Walmart in South Philly and the propane had just ran out and it was 15 degrees outside.
是的。嗯，通常如果你拥有像这样的东西，比如这家公司，你会考虑品牌。对。然后也许你对品牌有一个大局观的想法，这可能会与创造性项目产生紧张关系，对吧？是的。但最终，对创作者来说，最好的品牌就是自由。是的。我记得我们三个一起为《全气无刹车》工作的人被同时解雇了。当时我们在提姆和埃里克的公司为我们购买的大露营车里，这是一辆更大的露营车停在南費城的沃爾瑪停車場里，丙烷气罐刚刚用完，外面是零下15度。
So like the RV was getting really cold really fast and I just looked at my phone and it was like, you're fired. And I was just like, God help me. I've had a couple moments like that and God does help me. And there were always in the parking lot of Walmart, right? Well, yeah, although I know that Walmart, by the way, the one in South Philly is great. Yeah, that's great. But technically now you can't park an RV there. Well, you're not, you're not a man who follows the rules. Well, if you don't understand, those Walmart, Cracker Barrel and Big Five are supposed to technically all let RV campers park overnight. But if there's like a crime problem in the city where they're at, they can lobby individual Walmarts can lobby with the corporate to take that away.
所以像是我们的房车真的很快就变得很冷，然后我看了看手机，上面写着“你被解雇了”。我只能说，上帝帮助我吧。我有几次这样的时刻，上帝确实帮助了我。而且这些时刻总是发生在沃尔玛的停车场，对吧？是的，尽管我知道沃尔玛，顺便说一句，南费城那家很棒。是的，那家很好。但从技术上讲现在你不能在那里停房车了。嗯，你不是一个遵守规则的人。嗯，如果你不明白，那些沃尔玛、Cracker Barrel和Big Five理论上都允许房车露营者在那里过夜。但如果城市里有犯罪问题，他们可以向公司游说，单个沃尔玛可以要求取消这项待遇。
So like all the Portland Walmarts, you can't sleep there anymore. Any city with like significant homelessness and like petty property crime, the Walmarts are at no go. Fascinating. So that was a low point. Yeah. And but from there from the ashes, the Phoenix Rose over time. Yeah. Channel five was born. Channel five was born in the March of 2021. After a we finished filming for the HBO project. Oh, really? So you went all in on the HBO project. Yeah. I mean, we filmed the HBO project from November 2020 up until April 2021. Damn here. We were just like, you know, picking up the pieces, going back for individual interviews, stuff like that. So let's go to that project. It turned out to be a movie called this place rules. It's supposed to be called America shits itself. Yeah. Maybe you can tell the story of the film. You have what's his name? I wrote this down. Joker gang and gum gang. Is that correct? Yeah. The opening scene. The opening scene of two characters just talking shit and then getting into a fight. And that I think was really brilliant how you presented that as a almost like a microcosm of like the division between the extremes and the left and the extremes of the right. That's exactly what it was. I'm glad you picked up on it.
所以就像所有波特兰的沃尔玛一样，你现在不能在那里睡觉了。在任何一个有严重流浪问题和小偷小摸犯罪的城市，沃尔玛就是个禁地。很有趣。所以那是一个低谷。是的。但从那里，凤凰在时间的洪流中崛起。是的。Channel five 诞生了。Channel five是在2021年三月诞生的。在我们为HBO项目拍摄结束后。哦，真的吗？所以你全力以赴去了HBO项目。是的。我意思是，我们从2020年11月拍到了2021年4月的HBO项目。该死这里。我们就像，你知道，整理残局，回去进行个别访谈等。那么让我们谈谈那个项目。结果是一部叫《这里是好地方》的电影。原本名为《美国正在崩溃》。是的。也许你可以讲一下这部电影的故事。你记得他叫什么名字吗？我记下来了。小丑帮和口香糖帮。是这样吗？是的。开场是两个角色聊天然后打起来。我觉得你如何把这个呈现出来，几乎像是左派和右派之间的极端分歧的一个微观例证，这点很精彩。那正是如此。我很高兴你能理解。
Yeah. And then what I really liked is that the joke again, um, Joker gang was kind of a little bit of a spoiler alert. I apologize, but at the end of the film is a kind of, um, a voice of wisdom. Yeah. I just realized he seems the most sane. He was the voice of wisdom. He like cut through it. Yeah. I also just realized that a lot of people are going to stream the movie after watching this podcast, which is cool. Yeah. Where do they stream it? I don't know. HBO Max. I never got a chance to promote the. It's such a pain. Yeah. Yeah. Man. I wish we could all just pay on it on YouTube or something.
是的。然后，我真的很喜欢的是笑话。对，小丑帮派又出现了，有点剧透。抱歉，但是电影的结尾有一种智慧之声。是的，我突然意识到他似乎是最明智的。他就像是智慧之声。他穿透了一切。是的。我也意识到很多人在听完这个播客后会去找这部电影看，这很酷。是的。他们在哪里看？我不知道。HBO Max。我从没机会宣传。真是痛苦。是的。是的。天啊。我希望我们都能在YouTube上付费观看。
Yeah. And HBO gets the profits or whatever, but like it's such a, that's a subscriber, every single thing. But yes, if you want to watch it, it's really, I recommend extremely highly sign up to HBO or whatever the hell on the positive note HBO is great to work with. Like that they're the most professional, like respectful company I've ever worked with pretty much. Like HBO has created some of the greatest like TV, but even in the background, like they get shit done. There's, there's no, there's no wait time. They have some of the best heavy hitters on their team for trailers, for posters, all the promotional apparatus they have is like super solid. Did you get like good notes from people there? Like how to a little bit man, but you know, it's a, it's a truly original, like documentary, like meaning like I just haven't seen anything like it. It's even like it's so like there's a humor and a lightness at the right kinds of moments. Mm hmm. Like it, like I said, there's like a rooster in your, that's like, okay, that's like a non-sequitur like thing as part of a storytelling. It kind of intensifies and reveals the absurdity of the division and how one, once like January 6th happens, like everybody that goes on to the next thing.
是的，HBO获得利润或其他任何东西，但这是每一个订阅者。但是，如果你想看的话，我强烈推荐注册HBO或任何其他能够收看的地方。积极的一面是HBO很棒。他们是我曾经合作过的最专业、最尊重的公司之一。HBO创造了一些最伟大的电视节目，甚至在幕后，他们也很有效率。他们没有拖延，他们团队中拥有一些最顶尖的人员来制作预告片、海报，以及所有的推广装置都非常扎实。你从那里得到了对这部纪录片的好的评价吗？有一点吧，但你知道，它是一个真正独特的、像我从未见过的纪录片。它在适当的时候有一种幽默和轻松感。就像我说的，有一只公鸡在你的...那就像，好吧，那就像一个不相干的事情作为故事情节的一部分。它加剧并展示了这种分裂的荒谬性，以及一旦发生1月6日事件后，每个人都转向下一个事情。
Yeah. It's like what happened to us is it was almost like a delirium that everybody was participating in some weird, just like, well, like people say, my enviruses, like all of a sudden we just got captured. Yeah. And people just like yelling each other doing the most ridiculous shit. And I mean, really January 6th, the way you presented, especially just reveals the circus of it all. I mean, it really broke the, the fourth wall, or a solid describe it because if you were at January 6th and the lead up, it felt like it was the beginning to a series of similar riots, but it just popped off so much that that was it. You haven't seen anything like it since. It was supposed to be a second one on January 20th. It was the actual inauguration. It never happened. It was a crazy time to be alive and around. And especially the relationship that I developed with Enrike Tario, who was the former chairman of the Proud Boys, he's now facing, you know, 23 years in prison. It's like a trip because I went to his house in Miami, maybe two weeks after January 6th and talking to him, it seemed like he didn't think anything was going to happen. He was just like, yeah, man, that was crazy. I'm glad I wasn't there. Like they're dumb for doing that. He even told me he doesn't think the election was stolen. Which is just a mind fluck. It's like, why'd you get everyone so hyped up? It's just weird to think about how so many people's lives are drastically altered forever because of that just bizarre moment in time that we'll always live on.
是的。就像我们发生的事情几乎像是一种狂热，每个人都参与其中一些奇怪的事情，就像人们说的，就像我们突然被困住了一样。是的。人们就像彼此大喊大叫，做着最荒谬的事情。我是说，尤其是1月6日，你展示的方式，特别是揭示了这一切的马戏团。我是说，它真的打破了第四面墙，或者用一个词来描述它，因为如果你在1月6日和之前参与其中，那种感觉就像是一系列相似的骚乱的开端，但是它发生了太多，就这样结束了。自那以后从未见过类似的。原定于1月20日举行第二次，那是真正的就职典礼。但从未发生过。那是一个疯狂的时期，活在其中，尤其是我与恩里克·塔里奥之间建立的关系，他曾是自豪男孩的前主席，现在面临着23年的监禁。这就像是一场旅行，因为我在1月6日之后大约两周去了他在迈阿密的家，和他交谈时，他似乎并没有觉得会发生什么。他只是说，是的，兄弟，那太疯狂了。我很高兴我不在那里。像他们这样做真是愚蠢。他甚至告诉我他不认为选举被窃取了。这简直让人糊涂。为什么你会让大家如此兴奋呢？想想那么多人的生活因为那个令人费解的时刻而永久地受到了极大的改变，这真是奇怪。
Yeah. What did you cue on on as part of that story? What'd you learn about QAnon from that? Um, just an all encompassing world of you, that family that I talked to, I call them a Cuban on family, but it's called the Spencer family. You know, they were non-political up until the stop the steel movement began in September of 2020. And within four months, their entire life revolved around the mythology and lore of Q and I've never seen in my life, a scyop just devoured people's minds in such an intense way and such a rapid period of time. And I love how the kids in the movie are also the voices of wisdom. This is the Spencer family. It's the kid who like goes to the full journey.
是的。在那个故事的一部分，你侧重关注什么？从中你了解到了QAnon的什么？嗯，就像我和他们谈过的那个家庭一样，我称他们为一个古巴人家庭，但他们叫斯宾塞一家。你知道，他们在2020年9月止钢运动开始之前并不参与政治。在短短四个月内，他们的整个生活围绕着Q的神话和传说展开，我从未见过有一个人群被如此激烈且迅速地吞噬思想。我喜欢电影中孩子们也是智慧的声音。这就是斯宾塞一家。是那个孩子经历全程的。
Yeah. I've like believing that whatever Hillary Clinton is a lizard and just believing all the worst versions of the conspiracy theories and then kind of waking up was like, what was the point? Yeah. It was heartbreaking to see his disappointment and his dad for even, you know, following QAnon so militantly because he was like, I felt like they let my dad down. I feel like they let our family down, you know, because January 6 was supposed to be the day according to QAnon that the storm happens and that the military is supposed to mobilize and arrest the members of the deep state. Clinton, Soros, all that. Trump was supposed to go into a helicopter. You know what I mean? And take control of the country back from, you know, the swamp and it didn't happen. In fact, the next day he was like almost denouncing it. Now he doesn't, but then he did.
是的。我开始相信希拉里·克林顿是蜥蜴，只相信阴谋论的最糟糕版本，然后有点清醒过来，感到很无谓。是的。看到他的失望和他爸爸甚至一直如此狂热地追随QAnon，真的令人心痛，因为他感觉他们辜负了我爸爸。感觉他们辜负了我们的家庭，因为根据QAnon，1月6日应该是“风暴”发生的日子，军方应该动员起来逮捕那些深层政府的成员，克林顿，索罗斯等等。特朗普本应该搭乘直升机，你知道的吧？控制国家，将国家从沼泽中夺回，但事实并非如此。事实上，第二天他几乎在谴责它。现在他不这样做了，但那时候他确实这样做了。
And it was a really, I think it hurt people's pride a lot. My friend, Ford, Giotto below, he's a Trump rapper. He describes it that way. He said a lot of people's pride got hurt by January 6. Trump rapper. Oh, yeah, dude. Honestly, there's some pretty dope Trump rap out there. I'm serious. They, they're not going to rap. Yeah. Like you would think like, Oh, yeah, Maggie, there's no rappers there, but there's rappers and they do a pretty good job. They're good at delivering the messaging they want to deliver. Yeah. I mean, they think of stuff that I'm like, that's clever. Oh, they're like, they have some political depth. Yeah.
这真的很严重，我认为这很伤人的自尊心。我的朋友Ford、Giotto在下面，他是一个特朗普的说唱歌手。他是这样描述的。他说很多人的自尊心在1月6日被伤害了。特朗普说唱歌手。哦，是的，伙计。老实说，有一些很棒的特朗普说唱歌曲。我是认真的。他们不会说唱。是的。你会觉得，噢，是的，Maggie，那里没有说唱歌手，但其实有说唱歌手，他们做得很好。他们擅长传递他们想传达的信息。是的。我是说，他们想到一些我觉得很聪明的东西。哦，他们有一些政治深度。是的。
Well, I mean, is there something more you could say about like how Q and I works, like who's behind it? What's your sense of who's behind the whole thing? You know, I don't want this to sound rude or anything. I just don't care about Q and on. You know what I mean? I've, I've put so much thought into it. And I just can't seem to care about it. Was it like almost a disappointment? Cause like the, to me, it was like a thing that just captured a very large number of people's minds and then it just kind of faded. I guess that's why it just seems like it's gone. And the ideas of Q and on have just bled into mainstream standard conservative thinking, but there has to be a kind of retrospective. Like there's, that's the problem I have with COVID.
嗯，我的意思是，关于Q和我如何运作，你还能说些什么吗，像是谁在背后？你觉得是谁在整个事情背后？你知道，我不想这听起来像是无礼或者什么的。我只是不关心Q和随从。你知道我是什么意思吧？我已经想了很多，但就是无法让自己在乎起来。这是不是像是一种失望？因为对我来说，它就像是掠夺了很多人心灵的一个事情，然后就慢慢消失了。我想这也是它们消失的原因吧。Q和随从的想法已经渗透到了主流的保守思维中，但还需要一种反思。这就是我对COVID的问题所在。
You know, a lot of stuff happened. Everybody freaked out. There's a lot of big drama around it. No, everyone was like, okay, forgot. Yeah. Just like moved that way. What are the lessons learned? Has anyone learned any lessons? Yeah. Like what exactly? And I don't want Q and on adherence to see this and think I don't care about them. Yeah. But like as far as who is behind it, the damage is done. Yeah. But what are the mechanisms that made it work? I mean, that's really, have you kind of like thought about that? I kind of think that these viral ideas can be driven by, and your film kind of shows this, but just a handful of people and they're not malevolent. They just want to cloud.
你知道的，发生了很多事情。每个人都吓坏了。围绕这件事情发生了很多大戏。不，每个人都觉得，好吧，就这样忘记了。对了。就像走开了那样。我们学到了什么教训吗？有人学到了什么教训吗？对了。像什么？我不希望信仰QAnon的人看到这个并认为我不关心他们。是的。但是关于谁是幕后推手，伤害已经造成。但是是什么机制让它成功了呢？我是说，你有没有思考过这个问题？我有点觉得这些病毒式的想法可能是由一小部分人推动的，你的电影也展示了这一点，但他们并不是恶意的。他们只是想混淆视听。
Yeah. And there's something sexy. There's something really sticky about conspiracy theories, like, especially extreme ones, you just kind of like it. Some of them can have this momentum. They capture the minds of a lot of people and you just go with it. Yeah. And like when I hear some conspiracy theories, like there's something like a small part of me that kind of like, yeah, it's positive. It's possible, you know, that Q and on is a scyop to distract people away from actually uncovering what the deep state is and who is truly running things behind the scenes because the deep state is just the 1%. It's that you take, you get people so close to any type of class consciousness.
是的。阴谋论有一种性感的东西。特别是那些极端的阴谋论，有一种让人难以抗拒的吸引力。有些阴谋论能够带动很多人的思维，你就会跟随其中。是的。当我听到一些阴谋论时，总有一小部分的我会认为，是的，这有可能性。比如说Q和Q的目的可能是为了转移人们的注意力，让他们远离揭露真正掌控幕后的深层国家的真相，因为深层国家其实只是1%的人而已。它只是让人们接近了一种阶级意识。
And then you totally divert everything into like lizard humans who live on the moon and that Hillary Clinton is eating babies on camera. And Q and on did just that. That they want you to, they want to convince you that one, there's no conservative deep states, which is even more hilarious, that Trump isn't connected to a huge, rich corporate apparatus of propagandists. And two, that the democratic establishment is the only deep state and that some middle, middle of the road conservatives, that there's no grifters or manipulators outside of that three headed snake, you know, there's grifters everywhere.
然后你完全把一切都转移到了像是生活在月球上的蜥蜴人类，以及希拉里·克林顿在摄像头前吃婴儿的论点上。 Q和他们正是这样做的。他们想让你相信，一，不存在保守派的"深层国家"，这甚至更加荒谬；特朗普并没有与大型、富有的企业宣传机构联系在一起。二，民主派的核心人物才是唯一的"深层国家"，而一些中间派保守派认为，除了这三头蛇之外没有骗子或操纵者，其实骗子无处不在。
Everyone wants to make money, dude. This is the world that we're in. It's in collapse. Everybody wants to make money and engagement is the rule of law. So anything, that's why these news organizations follow retention incentives. They want to make money by selling ads. So they try to create fear and constant division to enrich corporate media establishment. And you have people who are almost realizing, hey, it seems like Fox and CNN. It might be owned by the same people and are tactically using these machines to keep us divided perfectly 5050 to ensure that the power structure never gets disrupted. And then you guys, then you get these people, you know, who's going to save us? Donald Trump. That's the guy. How is that the guy? It's not the guy.
每个人都想赚钱，伙计。这就是我们所处的世界。世界正在崩溃。每个人都想赚钱，而参与是法则。因此，这就是为什么这些新闻机构追随保留激励措施。他们想通过出售广告赚钱。因此，他们努力制造恐惧和持续分裂，以丰富企业媒体机构。你会发现一些人开始意识到，嘿，看起来像是福克斯和CNN。可能是由同一群人拥有，并策略性地利用这些机器，以保持我们完美地分裂成50/50，确保权力结构永远不会被打破。然后，你会遇到这些人，谁会拯救我们？唐纳德·特朗普。那个家伙。他怎么能成为那个家伙？他不是那个家伙。
I don't have TDS. I don't, I'm not an orange man, bash, or who thinks about the guy all the time, but I don't think he's the guy. Uh, you were shirtless. Lifting weights while whiskey or some alcohol was poured into your mouth by Alex Jones in this movie. And then you did the same to him. That's true. Mm hmm. It feels like an interrogation. Uh, so Alex was a, was a part of this film. He was like throughout, throughout the narrative. And yet he had a great interview with him.
我没有TDS。我没有，我不是一个橘子人，瞧不起别人，或整天想着那个家伙，但我不认为他就是那个人。嗯，你光着上身，电影里面亚历克斯·琼斯往你嘴里灌酒或者其他酒精，你在举重。然后你也对他做同样的事情。是的。嗯，感觉像是在审讯。所以亚历克斯是这部电影的一部分。他一直贯穿整个故事。而且你跟他进行了一次很棒的采访。
Uh, what did you learn about interacting with Alex? Uh, well, for making this film for one is that he's the exact same off camera as he is on camera. Yeah. It's not an act. He told me that all real Americans die before 58. He mentioned Sean Connery and a few others. And, uh, hold this. Getting up there. Yeah. Think early fifties. Yeah. Um, I just found it fascinating. I mean, how, how nice his studio is. I mean, the guy's got like an MSNBC level set up. I actually had a great time with him. You know, I mean, it's bizarre because. Having him in that movie. Created so many problems for me. And when I interviewed him, you know, I didn't necessarily portray him in the best light. You know, we joked around a bit, but it wasn't Alex Jones hit peace necessarily, but I like to think that I was a bit critical of him in the film, especially the ways that he antagonized his supporters to storm the Capitol or to follow that trajectory.
嗯，你对与Alex互动学到了什么？嗯，首先拍摄这部电影的过程中，我发现他在镜头前后的确是一样的。是的，他不是在演戏。他告诉我真正的美国人都在58岁前就会去世。他提到了肖恩·康纳利和其他几个人。嗯，还有，拿着这个东西。年纪也大了。嗯，我觉得他大概五十多岁。我发现这一切很迷人。我的意思是，他的工作室有多漂亮。我想说，这家伙的设备有点像MSNBC的水准。我实际上和他相处得非常愉快。你知道，这有点怪异，因为。把他放在那部电影里给我带来了很多问题。当我采访他时，我不一定是把他描绘成最好的形象。我们有一些玩笑，但不完全是针对Alex Jones的批评，不过我希望在电影中对他有一些批评，尤其是他激励支持者冲击国会大厦或沿着那个轨迹前进的方式。
Um, he told me when I met with him, he was like, I know you think that having me in this movie is a good idea, but, um, you're going to have some serious backlash because of that. At the time, I was like, man, it's fine. You know, it's all good. We're just hanging out drinking whiskey, doing bench presses, drinking Jameson. It's all good. It was a first of all, I had to campaign to get him in the film because the studios were like, we don't, there was a bizarre time around like, I think it was 2018 where de-platforming was the big thing that people were encouraging. It said, giving a platform to problematic ideologies will in turn expand their reach. And so even extending your platform to someone who's problematic is helping them. AKA destroying humanity, whatever it was. So that was the whole thing.
嗯，当我见到他时，他告诉我说，我知道你认为让我出演这部电影是个好主意，但是，嗯，由于这个你将会遭受严重的抵制。当时我觉得，哎呀，没关系，你知道，一切都好。我们只是在一起喝着威士忌，练卧推，喝着詹姆逊。一切都好。首先，为了让他出演这部电影，我必须全力游说，因为影视公司认为，我们不应该……大概在2018年左右的那个时候，平台封禁成为了人们鼓励的大事。他们说，给予有问题的意识形态一个平台将会扩大其影响力。因此，即使将你的平台向有问题的人扩展也是在帮助他们。也就是说摧毁人性，不管怎么样。所以，整件事情就是这样。
And, uh, when I did this media training that was, you know, mandated by HBO, it was all training and how to defend from that exact question. They said, when we, when we put you on NPR and we put you on CNN, they're going to ask you about platforming problematic ideologies. And you're going to have to say stuff like sunlight is the best disinfectant. I believe that extremism only goes away when you shine a light on it because leaving it in the dark will only allow it to grow. They gave me like 15 pointers. Um, I didn't use any of those pointers because I'm not the kind of person who wants to be media trained.
嗯，当我接受这个由HBO强制要求的媒体培训时，所有的训练都是关于如何面对这个确切问题的。他们说，当我们把你放在NPR和CNN上时，他们会问你有关支持有问题意识形态的平台。你会不得不说像“阳光是最好的消毒剂”这样的话。我相信只有当你对极端主义进行曝光时，它才会消失，因为把它留在黑暗中只会让其生长。他们给了我大约15个提示。嗯，我没有使用任何这些提示，因为我不想接受媒体培训。
I like to speak freely. But in the promotional run for the film, you know, when I went on CNN, this was a crazy experience. So I went on CNN and thankfully my friend was with me. And so I'm on CNN and by the way, your friend is chilling in sunglasses, laying in the couch. That's like the, the, it's a mix of like the dude from Big Lebowski and, uh, uh, the Brad Pitt role in, uh, true romance. Yeah. You know that reference. No, but I mean, I'm sure it describes Larry. So he kind of looks like Brad Jack.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so HBO had a press tour set up for me and the main ones were CNN and NPR. And so they said, we're going to, you're going to go on CNN on the Don Lemon Morning show and he's going to ask you about your life, what led up to the movie, what we can expect. So I get in the studio. It's about seven o'clock in the morning in New York at his show the night before at Times Square. So I'm like groggy eyed, whatever. They put the lab on me. Boom. I'm live on CNN Sunday morning. And he goes, how would you describe Enrique Tario's mental state in the lead up to the Capitol in Surrection? And I'm, I'm looking around. I'm like, is this guy serious? Like, am I, am I sandwiched in the January six hit piece right now?
Yeah. I thought it was about me. Yeah. And so I told him it's not about Enrique Tario. It's about how companies like Fox, MSNBC and even your station, CNN, use the 24 hour news cycle to enrage people to generate ad revenue and pit Americans against each other during times like that. And he said, there's nothing fake about CNN. I said, I didn't say you were fake news. I'm not saying you're lying, but you're directly antagonizing and stirring people up against half the country because you need money during to support a dying platform.
我喜欢自由地说话。但在电影宣传期间，你知道的，当我上CNN时，这是一个疯狂的经历。所以我上了CNN，幸运的是我的朋友和我一起。所以我在CNN上，顺便说一句，你的朋友正在沙发上戴着墨镜，很悠闲。就像《大卫·莱博夫斯基》里的那个家伙，还有《真实的罗曼史》里的布拉德·皮特角色的结合。是的，你懂得那个参照。不，但我想它描述了拉里。所以他看起来有点像布拉德·杰克。
是的。是的。所以HBO为我安排了一次媒体巡回宣传，主要是CNN和NPR。所以他们说，你要去CNN参加唐·莱蒙早间节目，他会问你生活，电影前的经历以及我们可以期待什么。所以我进入录音室。大约是早上七点，在纽约的时代广场，前一天晚上的演出就在那里。所以我感觉昏昏欲睡，不管怎样。他们给我戴上话筒。嘭。我就在CNN周日早上直播了。他问，你会如何描述恩里克·塔里奥在国会暴乱前的精神状态？我四处看看。我想，这家伙是认真的吗？像这种一月六号事件的负面报道？是的。我以为是关于我的。是的。所以我告诉他，这不是关于恩里克·塔里奥，而是关于像福克斯，MSNBC甚至你们这个台，CNN，如何利用24小时新闻周期煽动人们，挣钱，在那种时候把美国人对立起来。他说，CNN没有任何虚假。我说，我没说你们是假新闻。我不是说你们在撒谎，但你们直接对抗和激怒人们，使半个国家针对另一半，因为你们在支持一个垂死平台赚钱。
You said that pretty much. And great. You know, I was so my mom was watching it. She was texting me. She was like, what are you doing? And I was like, I don't know. And so he goes, why'd you extend the platform to Alex Jones? And I go, I don't know. I just wanted to drink some Jamison and lift some weights with him. You know, I'm just at this point, I don't support that kind of media. I don't support CNN.
So, you know, I just, I didn't give them much information about Alex, but it was very awkward. They never posted the segment online. When I got off of that interview, I had a handler that a 24 assigned to me. So I had someone with me and she, you could tell she was flustered. Like she was furious about what I just did. And so she goes, I just got an email from Time Warner C suite. And I go, what's Time Warner C suite? She says, I don't know if you know this, but the same people who own the same people who own CNN own HBO and it's time Warner.
你说得挺不错。很好。你知道吗，我当时正在看节目。我妈妈在看。她发短信给我。她问我在干什么？我说我不知道。然后他问我，为什么要邀请Alex Jones参加节目？我说，我不知道。我只是想和他一起喝点Jameson威士忌，做些重量训练。你知道的，我已经达到了这个程度，我不支持那种媒体。我不支持CNN。所以，你知道，我没有给他们太多关于Alex的信息，但是那个时候非常尴尬。他们从未在网上发布那一部分。当我结束采访时，有一个24小时跟我在一起的助手。所以有人陪着我，她显然很慌张。她对我刚做的事情感到愤怒。于是她说，我刚收到了时代华纳公司高管的邮件。我问，时代华纳公司高管是什么？她说，我不知道你是否知道，拥有CNN的人同时拥有HBO，这就是时代华纳公司。
And so they canceled my press tour. So my press store was finished. You know, all the late night shows that I was supposed to go on, I was supposed to go on like the late night shows. And that was off the table because they were worried that I was like a loose cannon, I think. And then the only remaining appearance I had left was NPR in Boston. And that was supposed to be a premiere. So it wasn't supposed to be an interrogation. It wasn't supposed to be anything like that. It's supposed to be a premiere in front of a live audience where they watch the film and I show up after for a Q&A.
所以他们取消了我的新闻发布会。所以我的新闻故事结束了。你知道我原本要去的所有深夜节目，我应该去的就像深夜节目一样。但因为他们担心我像一颗不定时炸弹，所以这个计划被搁置了。然后我唯一剩下的一个安排是在波士顿的 NPR。那原本应该是一场首映。不是应该是一场审问。不是应该是任何那样的事情。它应该是一场在现场观众面前观影并在之后我进行问答环节的首映式。
So I'm like, all right, whatever. It's kind of weird to only have this one press opportunity left. I kind of felt bad that I ruined the entire press tour by confronting Don Lemon. But at this point, I wanted to just do this final one, especially because it was a viewing. And I was like, cool. I sat in the audience. I watched people laugh to the film. It was awesome. So I go backstage and there's an NPR journalist waiting for me and nothing against people who wear masks, but she had two N95s on. And I'm not two N95s. It's over the line. So I go, Hey, great to meet you. She doesn't shake my hand. And I go, why not? And she goes, you've been around some people who I don't want their germs. Yeah. And I'm like, OK, OK, this is weird. I thought this is a sort of like fun premiere for my movie. We sit down.
所以我就像，好吧，随便你。只剩下这一个媒体采访的机会有点奇怪。我有点觉得糟糕，因为我在对Don Lemon发飙时毁了整个媒体宣传行程。但是此时，我只想完成这最后一个，特别是因为这是一个观影会。我坐在观众席上看着人们笑着看电影，真棒。然后我走到后台，有一位NPR的记者在等我，不是针对戴口罩的人，但她戴了两个N95口罩。我觉得这有点过分。我说，嘿，很高兴见到你。她没握我的手，我问，为什么？她说，你和一些我不想接触的人在一起过。嗯，我说，好吧，这有点奇怪。我原以为这是我的电影的一个有趣首映会。我们坐下来。
The first thing she asks me is, how do you think the Sandy Hook families would feel about you platforming one of the most despicable Americans in history, Alex Jones? In front of a live audience. NPR never published this. The only recordings of it are by a fan named Rob in Boston who put it on YouTube, vertical phone footage. And I literally am like, well, the Sandy Hook family's lawyer, Mark Bankston, who represented them in court in Connecticut told me specifically that Leonard Posner, the father of Noah Posner, who died at Sandy Hook was a huge fan of the film. And so I said that to her and that kind of just like silence that conversation. But the rest of the whole conversation was just about exploitation and why are you platforming mentally ill people and giving a platform to conspiracy like Q and on? Don't you feel like you're a part of their spread? Someone call you a misinformation reporter. All this crazy stuff. And yeah, next day hit the fact.
她对我说的第一件事是，你觉得Sandy Hook的家庭会怎么看待你在现场演讲一个历史上最卑劣的美国人亚历克斯·琼斯？NPR从未发表过这个演讲。唯一的录音是波士顿的一个名叫罗布的粉丝上传到YouTube上的竖屏手机录像。我当时就说，Sandy Hook的家庭律师马克·班克斯顿曾专门告诉我，康涅狄格州法院代表他们的伦纳德·波斯内尔，也就是诺亚·波斯内尔的父亲，看了我的电影很喜欢。于是我就告诉了她，结果她就沉默了。但接下来的对话都是关于利用和为何给精神病人和谣言如“Q和安”一个平台。你难道不觉得你参与了他们的传播吗？有人还称你是一个造谣记者。所有这些疯狂的事情。然后，就在第二天，事实被揭露了。
Fuck all those people. That film, just in case you don't get a chance to see it and you should. Your critical of Alex Jones in the most. Artful way, like it was the correct way to be critical. It showed him to be more interested in the grift of it. Yeah. And you didn't do it in a like appointing fingers and like saying in the kind of NPR way that you just mentioned, it's more like a human way. Like this is tragedies happen all over the world and there's grifters that roll in and then take advantage of it in interesting ways. And then human beings get swept up on either side of it and it's revealing the human, the absurdity of it all. And it was done masterfully. It was done like for people who criticize you for platforming, Alex Jones or whatever.
去他们妈的那些人。那部电影，万一你没有机会看到，你应该看一看。你以一种最巧妙的方式批评了亚历克斯·琼斯，就好像这是正确的批评方式一样。它展示了他更感兴趣于牟取暴利。是的。而且你没有像在说指责和在类似 NPR 方式中所述那样说。它更像是以一种人性化的方式。就像这种悲剧在全世界发生，有些人趁机牟利，以有趣的方式利用它。然后人类被卷入其间，揭示了整个荒谬的一面。这是被巧妙地完成的。它是为那些批评你支持亚历克斯·琼斯或其他人的人们而做的。
Yeah. The film from a political perspective is probably leans very much left, like heavily left, but does it without that exhausting energy of like judging, right? Just this kind of, you know, yeah, two masks kind of judging. Yeah. And it was just a. When all that was happening, when I was under fire from the mainstream press for platforming Alex Jones, I thought back to what he said to me and doesn't mean I agree with everything he says, but he told me you're going to be in trouble with these people if you put me in your, in your video. And, you know, it wasn't too bad in trouble, but definitely I do think sometimes what the film would have been like without him.
是的。从政治角度来看，这部电影可能更倾向于左翼，甚至可以说非常左翼，但它并没有像审判那样令人疲惫的能量，对吧？只是一种，你知道的，穿着两面面具的审判。是的。当我因为给亚历克斯·琼斯提供平台而受到主流媒体的抨击时，我想起了他对我说的话，并不意味着我同意他说的一切，但他告诉我，如果你把我放在你的视频里，你会惹上这些人的麻烦。你知道，并没有太大的麻烦，但是我确实有时会想，如果没有他，这部电影会是什么样子。
And I think that it was worth it because his scene is so funny to me and it brings me back to a different time in my life. And I'm happy that that scenes out there. I think it was really well done. It's been the layering of it all. The entertainment plus sort of not considering from his perspective the consequences of like rallying people up in this way that it's not just, I mean, you really highlight this in the interview, like it's, he keeps saying it's info wars. But then there's always kind of a sense that info was concerned to actual like civil war and yeah, but maybe not. Maybe it's all just a circus like we play for each other. If you look at the speech he did on January 5th, it was said, he said tomorrow, you know, millions of patriotic Americans will take our country back.
我认为这是值得的，因为他的场景对我来说太有趣了，它让我回到了生命中的另一个时期。我很高兴那个场景存在。我认为它做得非常出色。这一切都是层层叠加的。娱乐加上从他的角度不考虑激起人们这种方式可能带来的后果，这不仅仅是，我觉得你在采访中真的强调了这一点，就像他一直在说的那样，这是信息战争。但总有一种信息战在意义上关联到真正的内战，但也许不是。也许这一切只是我们为彼此表演的马戏团。如果你看一下他1月5日发表的演讲，他说明天，你知道，数百万爱国美国人将夺回我们的国家。
Yeah. So he eggs people on and then when it gets hot, he steps away. Yeah. But like you said, the thing he told you, he turned out to be right. Oh, yeah. And the frogs are becoming gay. They've always been gay. Well, saying frogs are straight is even crazier. I've read stories where you kiss one and becomes a prince. Yeah, shit's true. A hundred percent. You think Alex believes what he says in terms of the everything he says on info wars, like how much of Israel he's right about like big tech censorship. I think if he's right about anything, it would probably be the heads of big tech colluding together across company lines to deep platform, certain people. He's right about that. I think most of the things that he says follow the question, everything narrative and then everything is kind of like a conspiracy. Like a plot or a false flag. I think that he's built up a following for so long that wants him to do that. You know, so I think he'll question things that he probably thinks are relatively straightforward because that's the shtick of the show. I mean, the info war is fighting misinformation and people want to see him be that guy to to to a certain extent. If you're a creator who supports your family, you do follow economic incentives and people want you to be the character. And so you're going to naturally gravitate toward being it.
是的。所以他煽动人们，然后当局势升温时，他就退后了。是的。但就像你说的，他告诉你的那件事，结果证明他是对的。哦，是的。而且青蛙变成同性恋了。它们一直都是同性恋的。说青蛙是异性恋的更疯狂。我读过故事，你亲吻一个青蛙就变成王子。是的，这是真的。百分之百是真的。你觉得Alex相信他在info wars上所说的一切，比如他对以色列有多少东西是对的，比如大科技公司的审查。我觉得如果他有什么是对的，那可能是大科技公司的负责人共谋跨越公司界线，将某些人下架。他在这方面是对的。我觉得他说的大部分事情都是按照质疑一切的叙事走向，然后一切都像是一个阴谋或假旗行动。我觉得他积累了这么长时间的追随者，他们希望他这样做。所以我觉得他可能会质疑一些他认为相对简单的事情，因为这就是这档节目的套路。我是说，info war是在打击错误信息，人们希望看到他成为那个人，某种程度上。如果你是一个支持家庭的创作者，你会遵循经济激励措施，人们希望你成为某种角色。所以你自然而然会倾向于成为那个角色。
Do you feel that pressure yourself? I did years ago, not anymore. I feel like now I can speak freely and really say what I want to say in my new life. But when I was younger, yeah, I feel like I had to be this sort of awkward, sort of amicable, aloof guy who just didn't think anything about anything and just was here to listen. But now I feel more confident adding some narrative and voiceover and things like that. So for some people, especially who publish on YouTube, the YouTube algorithm that can become a slave to the YouTube algorithm. Yeah, I mean, for sure. Because I definitely feel that sometimes. I know what works for me, but I like to think that my audience appreciates when I try new things. So I'm not totally enslaved to it.
你自己感受到了那种压力吗？很多年前我曾有过，但现在不再有了。我觉得现在我可以自由地说出我想说的话，在我的新生活中真正表达自己。但在我年轻时，是的，我觉得自己必须扮演那种有点尴尬、和蔼可亲、冷漠的角色，只想听别人说话而不做任何评论。但现在我更有自信，会加入一些叙述和旁白等东西。对于一些人，尤其是在YouTube上发布内容的人，可能会变成YouTube算法的奴隶。是的，我绝对有过这种感觉。因为我有时候确实会感觉到这种压力。我知道对我来说什么有效，但我希望我的观众会欣赏我尝试新事物时。所以我并不完全受其束缚。
I mean, yeah, I try not to pay attention to views or any of that. Well, you get some high views. So I'll report that for you. So I wrote a Chrome extension that hides all the views on anything I create. So you took it to that level? Yeah, just because it's a drug, man. And I'm also a number guy, meaning like you give me like, if I do 30 pushups today, tomorrow I'm going to try to do 35 just like enjoying number go up. Like that's why I like video games like RPGs, like where you're like improving your skill tree. You're like getting an extra point. And there's some aspect of YouTube and other platforms, anything, any other platform. You're like, Oh, I got more to that than yesterday. That's really, really dangerous to me because it can influence how much I enjoy a thing. Like if nobody gives a shit about it based on the numbers, you're like, Oh, maybe that wasn't such a great experience. I thought it was a great experience, but maybe it wasn't.
我是说，是的，我尽量不去关注观看人数或其他的。嗯，你的观看人数确实很高。所以我为你写了一个Chrome插件，可以隐藏我创建的任何内容的观看人数。所以你把它提升到了那个程度？是的，因为这就像是一种毒品。而且我也是一个追求数字的人，就像如果今天我做了30个俯卧撑，明天我就会尝试做35个，就像追求数据的增加一样。这就是为什么我喜欢视频游戏和RPG类型的游戏，因为在那里你在提升自己的技能树，你得到了额外的点数。在YouTube和其他平台上也是一样，你觉得自己比昨天做得更好。这对我来说真的很危险，因为它会影响我对事物的喜爱程度。比如，如果根据数字来看，没有人在乎我创作的东西，那么我可能会认为这不是一个很好的经验。我觉得那是一个很好的经验，但也许并不是。
Yeah, honestly, I do actually feel that way. Like I'll put out something that I care about a lot. But if it doesn't get as many views, I'm like, all right, it must not be as good as my higher view videos or whatever. Yeah, that's that's just like not true, though. Yeah. And it might mean like on YouTube that your thumbnail socks or something like this or whatever, however, the algorithm works. But I mean, that's the thing I'm battling against to make sure I ignore all of that. Right. And it's actually something Joe Rogan has been extremely good at. He gives zero shits. Yeah. And I think it's easier to do when you're really successful. Well, he was doing that when he wasn't successful. Really? But anything, he just follows like the stuff he enjoys doing and they generally enjoys it. He happens to be really good at it, but he gets good because he's doing the things he really enjoys and like full on.
是的，老实说，我的确有这种感觉。就好像我发出了一些我很在意的东西。但如果没有得到很多观看，我会觉得，好吧，这可能不如我的观看量更高的视频那么好。是的，但实际上这并不是真的。是的。这可能意味着在YouTube上你的缩略图太烂之类的，或者是算法如何运作之类的东西。但是，我要与之对抗，确保我忽略这一切。对，其实乔·罗根在这方面做得非常好。他毫不在乎。是的。我觉得当你真的很成功的时候做起来更容易。嗯，他在不成功的时候也是这样做的。真的吗？但无论如何，他只是追随他享受做的事情，而他通常是很喜欢的。他碰巧做得很好，但他之所以做得好是因为他在做他真正喜欢的事情，并全力以赴。
Yeah. Passionate about. And that's why he'll have like ridiculous guests and just like just shit he enjoys doing. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Maybe I'll one day try to do that. For now, I'm too attached to like the gratification of getting a million views in a day and stuff like that. I'm not going to allow you and say that I beat that or something like what it's a worthy enemy to be fighting because it's a drug. And it's one that should be resisted for a creator because I feel like it can do negative stuff to your mind as a creator. Oh, yeah, for sure. Anybody that controls you is not good. A lot of people are controlled by their audience. They don't have to have a puppet master on a corporate level. Audience incentive is a different type of. I don't want to say slavery, but yeah, it is. And that's why variety is good and you're doing that.
是的。对此充满热情。这就是为什么他会有一些荒谬的客人，只是他喜欢做的事情。是的，这挺酷的。也许有一天我也会尝试这样做。但现在，我太过依赖一天内获得一百万次观看的快感之类的事情。我不会说我打败了这种依赖，或者说我在与之抗争，因为这是一种毒品。作为一个创作者，这是应该抗拒的毒品，因为我觉得它可能对你的心智有负面影响。哦，是的，当然。任何控制你的东西都不好。很多人被他们的观众所控制。他们不需要一个在公司层面上的木偶师。观众的激励是一种不同类型的…我不想说奴役，但是，是的，就是这样。这就是为什么多样性很重要，而你正在做到这一点。
Yeah, I was expanding. Well, let me just zoom out on this. You made a film. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it was a great experience, man. I mean, it was awesome working with Tim and Eric, awesome working with Jonah Hill. I feel the same about HBO and A24. Everybody that I worked on the film with, I have a lot of love for and I appreciate the experience. My first movie, it's a big deal. Like it was a good one in my head. It's like I finally got to make the transition from YouTuber to filmmaker. And that was always this psychic barrier that I felt like I had to jump over, you know, there's a, I mean, just the way it shot, the humor that goes throughout it. Just the narration that you're doing in like a shitty director's chair. That's really well done. Who's idea was that it was actually Tim and Eric's idea. There was a really great editor named Clay who works for Absolutely. And they did all the editing pretty much in the office. And so it was Clay's idea to add a retrospective director's chair, narrative arc to the film.
是的，我正在扩张。让我简要谈谈这个。你拍了一部电影。是的，那很酷。是的，和Tim和Eric一起工作真的很棒，与Jonah Hill一起工作也很棒。我对HBO和A24也有同样的感觉。和我一起拍电影的每个人，我都非常喜爱，我感激这次经历。这是我的第一部电影，对我来说意义重大。在我心中，这是个伟大的作品。我终于从一个YouTuber 转型成了一名电影制作人。这总是我感觉必须跨越的心理障碍，你知道，从拍摄的方式，贯穿其中的幽默，到你在一张破烂的导演椅上的叙述方式。这都做得很出色。谁的主意？是Tim和Eric的。有一个非常棒的名为Clay的编辑师，他为Absolutely工作。他们几乎所有的编辑都是在办公室里进行的。所以是Clay提出在电影中加入一段回顾性的导演椅叙事。
Yeah, just like starting with the absurd fight and then going like, oh, that's a good way to start a movie. Just really, really well done. Thanks. Well, what about Jonah Hill? Like great guy. He believed in this. He did. So was that, what's that like? What do you think is behind him believing in such a wild project? I think that Jonah Hill has a good eye for like what's cool amongst the younger folks. Like he's in the skateboarding stuff. That's why he did that film mid nineties. And I think he probably saw a similar thing and what was going on with all gas, no breaks. And was like, shit, this could be, this could be big. And so not only did he actually fund the film, he also gave me his agent. And I forgot to mention that it was Jonah Hill's lawyer that he gave me for free. That got me out of my contract, eventually with doing things media or freed me up to speak about what happened. So he was also a part of you kind of gaining your freedom. Yeah, in a weird way, like even though him and I don't talk that much, just because he's doing his own thing, Jonah Hill is like a huge factor in my current success and just like everything that I've been able to accomplish.
是的，就像从荒谬的打斗开始，然后像说，“哦，这是一个电影的好开头。”做得非常非常好。谢谢。那么，乔纳希尔呢？像一个很棒的家伙。他相信这个项目。他是的。那么，那是怎么样的？你认为他为什么相信这样一个疯狂的项目？我觉得乔纳希尔对年轻人中的时髦东西有敏锐的眼光。比如他对滑板的热爱。这就是为什么他拍了那部电影《九十年代中期》。我认为他可能看到了《全速前进》中发生的类似情况，然后想，天啊，这可能会很大。所以他不仅资助了这部电影，还将他的经纪人介绍给了我。我还忘了提到，就是乔纳希尔免费给我的律师帮我解雇了与公司Doing Things Media的合同，最终让我得以畅所欲言。所以他也是让你获得自由的一部分。是的，在某种程度上，尽管他和我关系不是很紧密，因为他在忙很多别的事情，但乔纳希尔对我目前的成功以及我所能实现的一切都起到了极大的作用。
Just on your own politics, is it fair to say that your politics leans left? I'm not really sure sometimes. You know, I like to think that I am socially left. Like I think people should be able to dress and act like however they want. I don't believe in restricting people's social freedoms. Economics wise, it doesn't seem like leftist economic policy works very well on a city, city funding level. Like if you see what's going on in California, it seems like the the city leadership is mishandling the funds in California too. So I don't know about that. But I don't know. I don't really see myself as left or right. I just never have.
说到你自己的政治立场，可以说你的政治倾向是左派吗？有时候我也不太确定。你知道，我觉得我在社会问题上是左派的。我认为人们应该可以随心所欲地打扮和行为。我不信仰限制人们的社会自由。在经济方面，似乎左翼的经济政策在城市、城市资金层面并不奏效。就像你看看加利福尼亚州发生的事情，似乎城市领导也在处理加州的资金不当。所以我对此并不确定。但我也不知道。我并不认为自己是左派或右派。我从来都没有这样看待过。
Well, if you just like objectively zoom out and don't have an insane standard of the extremes, it feels like a lot of your work leans left. I tend to lean toward lean toward like the empathetic perspective, which I do think is more on the left and the right. But I also I'm not into like super like PC stuff. You know, I don't believe in limiting free speech either. I don't believe that I believe in a free internet, which I think is more embraced now by conservatives. But it does seem that maybe you can correct me, but it gets a sense sometimes that the left. Attack their own very intensely. It does happen. But every community has terms of exile. I mean, look, imagine what, think about what happens in the conservative realm. You know, like when Black Rifle Coffee Company like denounced Kyle Rittenhouse. They lost a lot of money too. Like it's not the right attacks its own too. I mean, think about Bud Light and stuff like date. It's like, I mean, you know, like every community has terms of exile. You just got to know who you're engaging with and you got to make that decision carefully. It'd be nice if there's an actual write up of the things you're not about to say for each thing. And then yeah, I wonder whose list would be longer. It just does feel like the less list is a little longer. If you're a conservative and you have a T-shirt with like a demon on it, like say goodbye. You know, I mean, there's certain stuff that they freak the hell out about. And conservatives are really concerned about pedophiles. Yeah, I mean, I don't like pedophiles either, but I don't think about it all the time.
嗯，如果你客观地放大视角，不过分苛刻地要求极端，似乎你的很多作品都偏向左倾。我倾向于同情来自同情的角度，我认为这更偏左也更偏右。但我也不喜欢太过于政治正确的东西。你知道，我也不相信限制言论自由。我相信自由的互联网，我认为保守派现在更加接受这一点。但有时候感觉左派批评同志的方式非常激烈。这种情况确实存在。但每个社区都有放逐的规则。比如，想想看，在保守派领域发生了什么。比如，当黑步枪咖啡公司谴责凯尔·里滕豪斯时，他们也损失了很多钱。右派也会攻击自己。想想百威啤酒和那些日期物品。每个社区都有放逐的规则。你必须知道自己在和谁交流，要慎重做出决定。如果每一件事都有一个明确的禁忌清单就好了。然后，我想知道谁的清单会更长。感觉左派的列表有点长。如果你是保守派，穿着印有恶魔的T恤，就可以告别了。他们对某些事情会非常恐慌。保守派对恋童癖者非常担心。是的，我也不喜欢恋童癖者，但我并不经常想这个事。
It was one of the things you do in the film is kind of confront one of the QAnon folks where his concern is that everybody's a pedophile and you showed to him. Well, it calls himself a pedophile hunter and makes videos exposing democratic elite pedophile cabals and it is himself a convicted child molester. There's an old thing that people say that every confession, every accusation is a confession to a certain extent. So like it's bizarre that some people's whole life after a big mistake will revolve around trying to seem like the good guy instead of taking accountability for themselves.
在电影中，有一件事情是你与一个QAnon成员对质，他关心的是每个人都是恋童癖者，你向他展示了事实。他自称是恋童癖猎人，制作视频揭露民主精英恋童犯罪团伙，却自己是一个被定罪的儿童侵犯者。人们常说每一个自白、每一个指控都在某种程度上是一种自白。所以一些人犯了大错后，整个生活围绕着试图表现自己是好人，而不是为自己负责任，这种行为很离奇。
Yeah, it's a common thing you see all the time, like neighborhood watch people. You know what I mean? Like, what made you that? You know, like, what did you do, bro? You feel like you have to get karmic retribution by doing the reverse. I don't get it. Yeah. Do you think to the degree of bias that affects your journalism? No, but I mean, with the migrant situation. I don't know. What was that covering that? Like I just got a lot of hate from conservatives for like letting the migrants tell their stories about their journey and stuff.
是的，这是一个你经常看到的常见情况，就像是社区守望者一样。你知道我的意思吗？就像是，是什么让你变成这样的呢？你知道，就像是，你做了什么，兄弟？你觉得你需要通过反向行为得到因果报应。我不明白。是的。你认为偏见对你的新闻报道有影响吗？不，但是我是说，就移民问题而言。我不知道。那个报道是怎么回事？像是我只是因为让移民讲述他们的旅程故事，就得到了很多保守派的仇恨。
Well, what did you learn from just going to the border? I mean, just the sheer desperation that the citizens of the world are in. I mean, there's people who truly believe that America is the only hope for their success and to feed their family. And I think a lot of them are kind of getting catfished. Meaning America has its problems too. It has severe problems. There's extreme poverty here. But they're in America. Like if you just compare to other nations, the level of corruption is much lower to where the opportunity for person to succeed, to rise is higher. I wish success on everybody who comes here. But my thing is the expectation that they have in the sort of American dream propaganda they've been installed with isn't necessarily a reflection of contemporary American reality.
那么，你仅仅去边境学到了什么呢？我是说，世界公民所处的绝望境地。我指的是，有一些人真的相信美国是他们成功和养家糊口的唯一希望。我觉得很多人有点上当受骗。意思是美国也有自己的问题。这里有极度贫困。但他们在美国。相较于其他国家，腐败程度低得多，个人成功和崛起的机会更高。我祝愿每个来到这里的人都成功。但我的观点是，他们对所谓的美国梦的期望并不一定反映当今美国的现实情况。
So I'm talking to people who speak no English and say, I'm here for a better life. I go, where are you going to go? They say, I have no idea. And I'm like, man, that's tough. And you almost think how bad are things elsewhere for someone to abandon their family, make this journey across multiple continents and end up here with no plan. And it just made me realize how sheltered I am to a certain extent as an American and going, walking back what I said a little bit, because I was just trying to make a point. But what I think of as bad poverty, like, let's say, West Baltimore, or ninth word New Orleans, is nothing compared to what's going on in almost half of the world, if not more. And so it just made me zoom out a little bit. Sometimes you forget about third world poverty when you live here for so long. And you get programmed to believe the worst things that are out there is like Kensington Philadelphia or Tenderloin San Francisco.
所以我在和一些不懂英语的人交谈时说，“我来这里是为了过上更好的生活。”然后我问，你们打算去哪里？他们说，我没有头绪。我就想，哎呀，那可真困难。你会想，事情在其他地方到底有多糟糕，让人们舍弃家人，穿越多个大陆来到这里，却没有任何计划。这让我意识到在某种程度上，作为一个美国人，我过得有多么宠屋了。我稍微收敛了一下之前说过的话，因为我只是想表达一个观点。但是我认为的糟糕贫困，比如说西巴尔的摩或者新奥尔良的第九区，与世界上将近一半的地方相比，真的微不足道。这让我有些放大了视角。有时候当你在这里生活很久的时候，你会忘记第三世界的贫穷。你会被编程去相信，外面最糟糕的事情就是像费城的肯辛顿或旧金山的泰德洛因。
But those are just microcosms of more or less functioning cities, despite what they might lead you to believe. Philadelphia is a great place. So is San Francisco, but there's places where everywhere is really run down. Yeah, like people focus on in major cities in the United States, like homelessness. Somehow that's a sign of a fallen empire. Right. But that's a problem. There's definitely it reveals some mismanagement of cities and go. I mean, homelessness in Seattle and San Francisco is for sure a result of the housing crisis, especially post COVID and all the gentrification that preceded it.
但这些只是更多或更少正常运作的城市的缩影，尽管它们可能让你相信的。费城是个好地方。旧金山也是，但有些地方到处都很破败。是的，就像在美国主要城市中人们关注的那样，比如无家可归者问题。某种程度上这是一个帝国衰落的迹象。对，但这是个问题。这肯定揭示了一些城市管理上的失误。我是说，西雅图和旧金山的无家可归者问题肯定是住房危机的结果，尤其是在COVID后以及所有先前发生的租售改造之后。
You know, and it's unfortunate now to that the conservative media is saying, like look at Biden's America as if Biden created homeless people. And it's just disappointing because once again, you're seeing the media use real issues that should concern every US citizen and causing people to point fingers at a different political party as responsible for the suffering of others. Do you think January 6th can happen again? No. So all the lessons were learned. Yeah, for sure. I mean, people got really screwed over. I mean, don't you have a sense that there's a greater and greater growing questioning of the electoral process and all this kind of stuff?
你知道的，现在保守派媒体正在说，就像拜登创造了无家可归的人一样看待拜登的美国，这真是令人遗憾。这让人失望，因为我们再次看到媒体利用应该关注每个美国公民的真正问题，导致人们指责不同政党对他人的苦难负责。你认为1月6日的事件会再次发生吗？不会。所以所有的教训都被吸取了。是的，毫无疑问。我的意思是，人们真的受到了很大的打击。你难道没有感觉到对选举过程和各种这类问题越来越多的质疑吗？
I think that Americans overall are very comfortable with our standard of living. I think people like going to Sonic and waiting in their car and getting milkshakes and people like going to the AMC theaters and they like going ice skating and mini golfing and going to the bar after work. I don't think that anyone wants a collapse of the basic structure of the country, even the most politically divided don't want to see 7-11 go away. We are so comfortable. If you look at other countries, even Europe, look at how they protest and look at the Arab Spring, those guys were talking like January 6thers and they actually took control of the government. Yeah.
我认为总体来说，美国人对我们的生活水平非常满意。人们喜欢去Sonic等待汽车，喝奶昔，喜欢去AMC影院，喜欢滑冰、迷你高尔夫球，并在工作后去酒吧。我认为没有人希望看到国家的基本结构垮台，即使在政治上存在分歧的人也不希望看到7-11关闭。我们非常自在。看看其他国家，甚至是欧洲，看看他们是如何抗议的，看看阿拉伯之春，那些人说的话和1月6日的人一样，他们实际上掌控了政府。是的。
You know, and so think about even if the Maga crowd took over the Capitol building, it's just a building. I don't know. I just think that Americans when they talk about civil war stuff, it's just so we're so far from that, even if the rhetoric is as divided as it was in 2020, it won't happen again. For it to really happen, it has to be there has to be a level of desperation. There has to be a level of economic desperation that's causing people to starve or some basic resource going away, water, something like that. Who do you think wins Trump or Biden in the Civil War? Well, no, in the guns in a game of Mario Kart. In the election 2024. Oh, man, I have no idea, man. I don't even know if I'm going to vote. It's weird that this is our choice. I know. I wish people were more focused on city politics. I'd rather vote like yes or no for a bike lane in my neighborhood than I would for the president.
你知道，所以想想即使Maga人群占领了国会大厦，那也只是一座建筑物而已。我不知道。我只是觉得当美国人谈论内战的事情时，我们离那种情况还有很远，即使舆论如同2020年那样分裂，也不会再次发生。要真的发生内战，必须存在一定的绝望程度。必须有一定的经济绝望感，导致人们挨饿或某种基本资源减少，比如水之类的。你认为特朗普和拜登在内战里谁会获胜？哦，不，是在马里奥卡特的枪战中。在2024年的选举中。哦，伙计，我完全不知道，我甚至不知道我是否会投票。我们能够在这两人之间进行选择真是怪异。我知道。我希望人们更加关注城市政治。我宁愿在我家附近的单车道上投赞成或反对的票，而不是为总统投票。
So local politics to use where it is. I think the future. Oh, I mean, you can your vote actually matter. Let's say you have a community of 500 people and you live in Henderson, Nevada. You can influence whether or not there's a bike lane or if this is going to be a playground or, you know, an AMPM, you get to choose and you can influence a hundred people to choose and boom, this is your community. You can't influence the result of an election. Still that the those at the presidential level, it sets the toll of the country. And so Trump running again and Biden running again. It just feels like there's going to be a lot of questioning of election results. I just can't believe those are our guys.
在本地政治方面发挥作用是很重要的。我觉得未来很重要。哦，我是说，你的选票实际上是很重要的。假设你住在内华达州亨德森市，有一个拥有500人的社区。你可以影响是否应该建一个自行车道，或者这里是否应该建一个游乐场，或者一个 AMPM ，你可以做出选择，影响100个人的选择，这就是你的社区。你不能影响选举结果，尤其是总统选举，它决定了国家的命运。现在特朗普再次参选，拜登再次参选。看来对选举结果会有很多质疑。我简直无法相信他们是我们的领导者。
Yeah. I mean, what is that's really our guys? Like that's where we're at. All these smart people we have in this country, the great history. We got Joe Kugang versus Gom Gang. Where'd you find Joe Kugang? Well, is he a legit juggle? Oh, is he just? No, no, no, no. Joker Gang is like a Miami Cuban guy. Oh, is Joker 305 rawest Chico alive? So me and I have been following him for a long time on Instagram because he's still like post videos of himself, like popping percussets and smoking blunts on the toilet freestyling. And so I had followed him for a while and then I finally got this platform and I said, Oh my God, I bet you now that we have a million followers, Joker Gang will sit down with us and lo and behold, the clout did its thing and there I was face with the man. There was a controversy a year ago where a woman came forward and said that you were pushing with her. You respected and know you got the consent, but you were pushing about it. Looking back, can you tell the story of that? What are the lessons you learned from it?
是的。我的意思是，我们真的是我们自己的人吗？就是这样。我们国家有这么多聪明人，有着辉煌的历史。我们有乔·库冈对阵戈姆·冈。你在哪里找到乔·库冈的？他是合法的玩耍者吗？噢，他只是？不，不，不，乔科冈就像是一个迈阿密古巴人。噢，乔科冈305是活着最野生的奇科吗？所以我一直在Instagram上关注他很长时间，因为他还在发布自己的视频，像在厕所里吸毒和抽大麻时即兴表演。所以我关注了他一段时间，最后终于有了这个平台，我说，哎呀，我敢打赌，现在我们有一百万粉丝了，乔科冈会和我们坐下来聊天，果不其然，名气起作用了，我和这个人面对面了。一年前有一个争议，一个女人站出来说你对她有所推动。你尊重并知道你得到了同意，但你对此有所推动。回想起来，你能讲讲那件事的经过吗？你从中学到了哪些教训？
Yeah, I mean, I've yet to speak on this for a lot of reasons, mostly because it's just it was a hard time and it's a sensitive subject. And I've wanted to prioritize the reporting. But I think that now I'm ready and able to do so. Everything sort of started on December 30th, 2022. And that was the release date of the HBO project. Like I told you, we didn't know when the movie was going to come out. We weren't told that it was going to come out on that date until early November and so it was like, Oh my God, here we go. We got a movie coming out HBO had I didn't even know it was going to be them.
是的，我的意思是，出于很多原因，我还没有谈论这件事，主要是因为那是一个艰难的时期，是一个敏感的话题。我一直想把报告放在第一位。但我现在觉得我准备好了，能够谈论这件事。一切都在2022年12月30日开始的。那是HBO项目的发布日期。就像我告诉你的那样，我们不知道电影什么时候会上映。直到十一月初，我们才被告知它会在那个日期上映，所以当时就像，哦，天哪，我们要有一部电影上映了，还是HBO公司发布的，我甚至不知道会是他们。
So every day for those 50 days, to where I received word and to the movie announcement or to the movie release, was like I was like a kid waiting for Christmas morning. You know what I mean? It was like every day I just I saw the movie release date as the first day of like the rest of my life. And so I remember the week of the movie release, it was like every day I was like, Oh my God, six days, five days, four days. And when it became two days, like I was so excited and so like honestly anxiety riddled because it was such a massive platform that I went out to the desert by myself out in the Mojave got a hotel and just kind of sat there. And then movie release day comes. I was supposed to come out at 8 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. I remember it was like 12 hours left, 10 hours left and then eight minutes before the movie at 752.
在那50天的每一天，直到我收到消息和电影公告或电影上映的时候，就像我是在等待圣诞早晨的孩子一样。你知道我是什么意思吗？就好像每天我都把电影上映日当作我余生的第一天。我记得电影上映那周，每天都像是在倒数，六天、五天、四天。当只剩两天时，我兴奋得几乎是忧虑重重，因为这是一个如此巨大的舞台，我独自一人去莫哈韦沙漠找了一家酒店，就这样坐在那里。然后电影上映的日子来临了。据说是在太平洋标准时间晚上8点。我记得还剩12个小时，10个小时，然后在752这个数字前8分钟开始。
Or I guess it was sent at 1052 East Coast time. I got a text message requesting a portion of my fat HBO check to contribute toward apparently years of therapy bills that this person had accrued after. She says that she felt that I pressured her into giving consent years prior. And I was confused not only because of the timing, but because this is someone that I hadn't seen in years or spoken to in years and I presume that I was on good terms with. So I didn't respond to the text message. And then when I didn't respond about seven days later, this person made some TikTok videos and with the help of some friends, launched an online campaign they got picked up by the press pretty quickly.
我猜应该是在东海岸时间1052发来的。我收到了一条短信，要求我从我的丰厚HBO薪水中捐款，用来支付这个人多年积累的治疗费用。她说她觉得我在多年前对她施加了压力，让她同意了某件事。我感到困惑，不仅是因为时间上的问题，还因为这是一个多年未见的人，多年未联系的人，我原以为我们之间关系良好。所以我没有回复那条短信。大约七天后，当我仍未回复时，这个人与一些朋友制作了一些TikTok视频，发起了一场在线活动，很快就被媒体报道了起来。
So what did you feel like when you got that text? Well, it's tough because on one hand, I'm not opposed to restitution being part of a private accountability process for real abuse. You know, like if you've heard someone to an extent that it took them out of work or something, like I think they're entitled to some money. But unfortunately, as I later learned, this person had legal counsel and this was an attempt to basically create evidence by extracting a confession from me to use as precedent for a civil lawsuit to the tune of a couple million dollars. It's dark. Yeah.
那么，当你收到那条短信时，你感觉怎么样？嗯，这很棘手，因为一方面，我不反对补偿成为真实虐待私人问责过程的一部分。你知道，比如如果你伤害了某人以至于让他们失去了工作之类的，我认为他们有权得到一些钱。但不幸的是，后来我得知，这个人有法律顾问，这是一种试图从我这里摄取认罪以作为民事诉讼的先例，诉讼金额高达几百万美元。这很阴暗。是的。
How did you meet this person? Well, I met them when I was 22 and like I told you, I was living in an RV, making the show called All Gas No Breaks. And I would travel between cities like every other day. And so I would basically pick a new city and I got in this like pretty bad habit of what I would say is essentially treating Instagram like a like a dating app. You know, I would go to a new place. I'd post my location, I'd surf the DMs and I would look for like fans to meet up with. It wasn't always girls. It was just people to party with because I was also partying every night. But a lot of times ended up being girls and stuff. And so that's kind of how this situation was.
你是怎么认识这个人的？嗯，我是在22岁的时候认识他们的，就像我告诉你的那样，我当时住在一个房车里，做一个叫做All Gas No Breaks的节目。我每隔一天就要在不同的城市之间旅行。所以我基本上会选择一个新的城市，然后养成了一个坏习惯，你可以说我把Instagram当成约会应用来用。我会去一个新地方，帖出我的位置，我会查看私信，寻找像粉丝这样的人来见面。并不总是女生，而是想找人一起狂欢，因为我也每天都在狂欢。但很多时候最终还是和女生们一起。所以这就是当初认识这个人的情况。
I didn't have sex with this person. Had a consensual encounter that they reached out to me about two weeks after saying, hey, I don't want you to take this the wrong way. But looking back, I felt a lot more pressure to agree than I realized in the moment. I don't think this is any fault of yours. I just think that you came on a bit too strong and I didn't want to let you down. So I gave in and it was that language made me feel horrible, mainly because if this person had told me, hey, I don't want to hook up, I would have said, yeah, of course not.
我没有和这个人发生性关系。这是一个双方同意的事件，他们在大约两周后联系了我，说，嘿，我不希望你误解。但回想起来，我意识到我在当时感受到了更多的压力来同意。我不认为这是你的错。我只是觉得你表现得有点过于强势，我不想让你失望。所以我妥协了，这种语言让我感到很糟糕，主要是因为如果这个人告诉我，嘿，我不想勾搭，我会说，是的，当然不。
Well, I don't want to hook up with someone who doesn't want to hook up with me. And I think that as fame increased during that time, I think I was just kind of oblivious to how people were seeing me, especially those who had a digital relationship with me prior to me knowing them. And I don't think that I handled that the right way. Well, thank you for taking accountability. But just to clarify, you got consent. Yeah, I was the initiatory party in an interaction with a fan who felt it. She had to say yes because of I'm not sure why. I don't know why, but like I said, this person also disclosed to me that had a history of childhood trauma and were actively being treated for PTSD and that they felt things moved too fast for them, given their situation. And so I told her, I said, hey, if you want to reach out, if you want to talk on the phone, I'm always here for you. I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know if we can talk further. About six months after that, I was at Sturgis Bike Week. And I remember this day, this was the hardest day. I was just chilling and I got a text from my friend and said, Hey, man, you're getting canceled right now. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, did someone find an old tweet or something? What are you talking about? And I opened my phone and it was this Instagram story of me. It was like the ugliest picture of me you can find. It was like my face open that was like screen shotted. And it said, I remember this specifically because I just couldn't believe it. It said the ugly loser who hosts all gas, no breaks is a piece of shit. He knowingly abused my friend and got away with it. If you follow him, I'm going to message you and ask you why.
我不想和不想和我发生关系的人发生关系。我认为在那段时间里，随着名声的增长，我对人们如何看待自己有点无知，尤其是那些在我认识他们之前与我建立数字关系的人。我觉得我并没有以正确的方式处理这个问题。谢谢你承担责任。但是为了澄清一下，你得到了同意吗？是的，我是与一个感觉到吸引的粉丝发生互动的一方。她不得不说是因为我不知道为什么。我不知道为什么，但就像我说的，这个人也向我透露过她曾经有过童年创伤，并且正在接受PTSD的治疗，她觉得事情对她来说发展得太快了。所以我告诉她，我说，嘿，如果你想联系我，如果你想电话交谈，我一直在这里等着你。我很抱歉听到这个消息。如果我们可以进一步沟通，请告诉我。大约六个月后，我在Sturgis摩托车周。我记得那一天，那是最艰难的一天。我只是在那里休息，突然我收到了一个朋友的短信，说，“嘿，伙计，你现在被取消了。”我问，“什么意思？有人发现了旧推特之类的东西吗？你在说什么？”我打开手机，看到了我的一个Insatgram故事。那是我最难看的照片之一。我的脸被拍得很丑，然后配文说，“我记得这个特别，因为我简直不能相信。这个主持《全加满油无刹车》的丑陋的失败者是个混蛋。他知道虐待了我的朋友，并且逃离了惩罚。如果你关注他，我会给你发送消息问你为什么。"
So this person who I don't know, I didn't even know where who the accusation was coming from. They text they emailed every production company that I was working with. Dm'd hundreds, if not thousands of people. Like just saying that like I was this piece of shit. And I didn't even know who this person was. So I was frantically calling and texting like every person that I'd seen intimately for the past year and be like, Hey, are we on good terms? Is everything OK? And then I figured out that the person was coming from Florida and I knew who it was. And so thankfully I reached out to the original person who I had the communication with and I said, Hey, like, I think this might have been you. This might have been your friend who posted this. Are we good? Like, I'm sorry. I apologize again. I was like, listen, I feel bad that you feel this way. I want to do anything that I can to help you again. I apologize. And she said apology accepted. I'm sorry. My friend asked if I could if she could post on my behalf and I'm sorry, I was going through a lot mentally and I saw your fame increasing. And so I agreed to let her speak on my behalf. And we let we made amends in private. You know, I said, OK, I'm here for you. Let me know. And she said apologies enough. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. And that was two years prior to this text message being sent to my phone eight minutes before the movie.
所以这个我不认识的人，我甚至不知道谴责的来源是谁。他们给每家我合作的制作公司发短信、发邮件。发消息给数百甚至数千人。就在说我是个糟糕的人。我甚至不知道这个人是谁。所以我在疯狂地给过去一年见过的每个人打电话发短信，问：“嘿，我们关系还好吗？一切都还好吗？”然后我发现这个人来自佛罗里达，我知道是谁了。所以我幸运地联系了之前和我交流的人，我说：“嘿，我觉得可能是你。可能是你朋友发的这个。我们没事吧？我很抱歉。我再次道歉。我说：“听着，我感到很抱歉你有这种感觉。我愿意尽我所能再次帮助你。我道歉。”她说道歉接受了。我很抱歉。我朋友问我是否可以代表我发帖子，我很抱歉，当时我的心情很糟糕，我看到你的名望在增加，所以我同意让她代表我发言。我们私下和解了。我说："好的，我在这里支持你。告诉我吧。"她说道歉已经足够了。谢谢你花时间和我交谈。这是两年前发给我的电话短信的内容，就在电影上映前八分钟。
So naturally, I wanted to go on my platforms and talk about what was happening. But I also didn't want to mess up the rollout of the movie. You know, and so the PR firm was like, we got this. We'll handle this for you. And that was, I guess, by way of a TMZ thing that said Andrew Callahan is devastated. I'm not sure why they thought that that was going to make people be in my favor. But yeah, just a picture of me on NBC that said Andrew Callahan devastated by allegations that that was their plan, I guess, to show that I was remorseful or something, you know, how much of this do you think lawyers kind of pushing this one money in favor involved? Well, I wish I could say the lawyer, but I just can't that was involved in this. But I will tell you that I try to lean away from resentment and toward accountability completely. What was my role in the situation? How can I never make someone feel like that again? What can I do? What changes can I make to make sure that one, I never treat someone this way and two, to never be in that position again?
自然地，我想要在我的社交平台上谈论发生的事情。但我也不想破坏电影的发布计划。你知道的，所以公关公司说，我们会处理这件事。我想这是通过 TMZ 发表的一篇文章说安德鲁·卡拉汉感到沮丧。我不确定他们为什么觉得这会让人们支持我。不过，就是一张我在 NBC 上的照片，上面写着安德鲁·卡拉汉受到指控感到沮丧，我想这是他们的计划，展示我是后悔的或者什么的，你觉得律师在这个问题中推动了多少金钱利益的？嗯，我希望我能说是涉及其中的律师，但我不能那样说。但我可以告诉你，我尽量避免怨恨，完全朝向问责。在这种情况下我扮演了什么角色？我如何才能不让某人再次有这种感觉？我能做什么？我可以做出哪些改变来确保我既不再这样对待某人，也不再陷入那种境地？
Well, again, thank you for taking accountability. And the main reason I talk about that is because it wasn't just that person. There was multiple people who made videos reporting similar behavior. And so it's obvious that that was a pattern of behavior of mine. And so I made the apology video to announce that I was taking some time away because I just needed time away. I mean, my entire support system collapsed. My friends at the time disappeared. I was getting like obituaries texted to my phone that were like, hey, it's been nice knowing you. It was great to see you grow. Good luck, you know, like I was dead. And yeah, it got dropped from my agency. No one gave me tough love. No one called me to ask me if I was all right. It was just only everyone disappeared in a week.
好的，再次感谢你承担责任。我谈论这个的主要原因是因为不仅仅是那个人。有多个人制作了视频报告类似的行为。很明显，这是我的一种行为模式。因此，我制作了道歉视频，宣布我需要一些时间离开，因为我只是需要远离一段时间。我的整个支持系统崩溃了。当时的朋友们消失了。我收到了像是在送别我的讣告短信，上面写着：“嘿，认识你很高兴。看到你成长真好。祝你好运”，就好像我已经死了一样。而且，我被我的经纪公司开除了。没有人给我勇敢的爱。也没有人给我打电话问我是否一切安好。就只是在一个星期内，所有人都消失了。
Again, thank you for taking accountability. But I just hate how many colors are out there. Like when people hit low points is when when you should help, when you should stand with them, if you know their character. Yeah. And it was just it was hard to separate like the initial situation that I knew was more or less a setup and the possible genuine other accounts. And so it was like, all right, you know what? At this point in my life, I want to be on the right side of history. I don't want to be the anti-cancel culture mouthpiece. I don't have the mental strength to fight this, especially because I was envisioning the HBO drop to be this like the world opens up to me moment and it was just the reverse. But it wasn't so much the media reporting on it that hurt me. It was just little stuff like a childhood friend. That you love seeing they unfollowed you on Instagram or just like seeing someone on the street that you're grew up with and like waving at them and they don't do anything back. And you're just like, oh, my God, man, like this is my new life. But what are you supposed to do?
再次感谢您承担责任。但我只是讨厌有那么多不同的颜色存在。当人们陷入低谷时，这时候应该帮助他们，支持他们，如果你了解他们的品格的话。是的。我很难分辨出一开始的局面，我知道这更像是一个陷害，以及可能会有真实的其他版本。所以，好吧，你知道吗？在我生活的这个阶段，我想站在历史的正确一边。我不想成为反对取消文化的代言人。我没有精力来应对这一切，尤其是因为我原本期待HBO上线会是像世界向我敞开的时刻，但反而是相反的。但伤害我的并不是媒体对此的报道，而是一些细小的事情，比如一个小时候的朋友。你很喜欢看到他们在Instagram上取消关注你，或者在街上看到一个你一起长大的人，向他们挥手，他们却没有任何回应。你只能说，哦，天啊，这是我的新生活。但你该怎么办呢？
Thankfully, I like somehow two weeks after I met an amazing partner who I'm still with to this day. And I was able to conquer my two biggest fears, which is monogamy and dogs. I was terrified of dogs and terrified of having a girlfriend. Now I have a girlfriend who I love and two dogs. So what was the lowest point? Well, right after this happened, I entered like a recovery programs. Started with AA, but then I found a more specialized program that dealt with the issues that I was dealing with. Say the hardest point was logically deducing that the lives of my loved ones will be better off if I was gone. You know what I mean? And thinking that my mom and my friends that their life would be better if I took myself out of the picture. And for one, I just figured, you know, their friends canceled. You know, her son is a disgrace. My family is going to think they raised me wrong. My friends, I'm a social pariah now. I'm a burden. I'm better off dead. And the hard part was, you know, I would read stories and books written by parents who lost their kids to suicide. And they reported feeling a lot of anger after the suicide. So I tried to think of what's the way I can do it to get the least amount of anger on behalf of the people who would grieve. Because hanging someone will discover you. So I figured drinking myself to death would be the way to do it. And I wasn't able to.
幸运的是，就在与一个了不起的伴侣相遇两周后，我找到了一个我至今仍然和她在一起的人。我成功地战胜了我最大的两个恐惧，那就是忠诚和狗。我曾经对狗感到恐惧，也害怕拥有一个女朋友。现在我拥有一个我爱的女朋友和两只狗。那么最低谷是什么时候呢？嗯，就在这之后，我开始参加康复计划。一开始是AA，并且后来我找到了一个更专业的项目来处理我面临的问题。我认为最困难的部分是逻辑上推断出如果我离开，我所爱的人生活将会更好。明白我的意思吗？想到我的母亲和朋友们的生活如果我离开他们会更好。然后我就想，我的朋友们会取消和她们的交往。她们的儿子是一个耻辱。我的家人会认为他们没有好好教育我。我的朋友们，我现在是一个社交负累。我死了反而是好事。难的部分是，我读到了一些由失去孩子自杀的父母写的故事和书籍。他们在自杀后报告感到很多愤怒。于是我尽力想着怎么样才能让悲痛的人们感到最少的愤怒。因为吊死会让别人发现你。所以我想喝酒喝死自己可能是一种办法。但最终我没有成功。
Yeah, that was just a dark place. I remember hating the people who loved me because I knew they would grieve and that made me mad. That makes sense. Like, I was ready to go. I had no will to live. But their grief was like, I didn't want to cause that. Couldn't want to hurt them. So I was like, I hated the people who loved me because they were stopping me from taking my own life. You know, and it's weird to think that, like, when I was going through that, if you walk by me in the street, I'll look like a normal guy.
是的，那只是一个黑暗的地方。我记得我曾经讨厌爱我的人，因为我知道他们会悲伤，这让我生气。这是有道理的。就像，我已经做好了离开的准备。我已经没有生存的意愿了。但是他们的悲伤让我觉得，我不想造成那种伤害。我不能想要伤害他们。所以我就像，我讨厌爱我的人，因为他们阻止了我自杀。你知道，当我经历那些时，如果你在街上经过我身边，我会看起来像一个正常的人。
And so now when I walk around and I see people, I think to myself, you have no idea what that person is going through, you know, like it's crazy that so many people are suffering in, like, complete silence and you can't, they don't wear it on them. You know, many of the people you talk to are probably that. Yeah. Many people you've interviewed before all this and after are probably going through some shit. And I also thought if I could write down what I just told you on a piece of paper and then I was to do it and then they found the note they would take it more seriously because they would know that I wasn't lying.
现在当我四处走动看到人们时，我会想，你根本不知道那个人正在经历什么，你知道，就像这种情况有多疯狂，有这么多人在默默地受苦，但你看不出来。你知道，你和许多人交谈的人很可能在经历着这些。是的，在这一切发生之前和之后你采访过的许多人很可能在经历一些糟糕的事情。我也想，如果我把刚才告诉你的事情写在一张纸上，然后我真的去做了，然后他们发现了那张纸条，他们就会更认真地对待，因为他们会知道我没有撒谎。
Yeah. But then you know that if you do it, it reduces the lifespan of your parents by 15 years. So I looked at it like I was taking time away from them. Well, thank you for the most part leaning towards accountability. It's the right path to take. What advice would you give to young men that look up to you on how they can be good men, especially in regard to women? If you have any kind of platform, you know, whether it doesn't have to be famous on Instagram, it could be like if you're a pillar of your community in the culinary world or whatever it is, just be hyper aware of that.
是的。但你知道如果你这样做，会减少你父母的寿命15年。所以我觉得这样做是在夺走他们的时间。嗯，谢谢你大多数时倾向对自己负责。这是正确的道路。你会给那些将你视为楷模的年轻男性什么建议，让他们如何成为好男人，特别是在与女性的关系方面？如果你有任何平台，无论是在Instagram上著名还是在你所在社区或烹饪领域中都可以，只要对此有高度意识就好。
And remember that you are inheriting a power dynamic that can create situations where there might be some pressure that you don't even realize is there, but it's definitely there and you just have to be aware of that. And two, when meeting new partners, having hookups and stuff like that, just try to have a trauma informed conversation about their past. Really know the experiences and the back story of what a new partner has gone through in that world of intimacy, whatever they're comfortable to share, obviously. But, you know, I would advise against one night stands.
而且要记住，你正在继承一种可能会导致你面临某些压力的权力动态，这种压力你甚至可能没有意识到，但它确实存在，你只需要意识到这一点。另外，当与新伴侣见面时，进行约会和其他事情时，试着进行一次关于对方过去的创伤的谈话。真正了解新伴侣在亲密关系世界中经历过的事情和背景，不过，只要对方愿意分享。但是，我建议不要进行一夜情。
I would advise against hooking up with someone that you're meeting for the first time. Have those conversations prior because even though it might sound like a vibe killer, it's not. And if you think that that conversation is a vibe killer, you probably shouldn't be in that situation in the first place, especially now how hyper sexualized things are and how common that type of violence is, you need to be able to have those conversations and stop and say, hey, tell me a little bit about your past.
我建议不要和第一次见面的人发生关系。在此之前先进行一些谈话，因为可能会听起来像是煞风景，但实际上不是。如果你觉得那种谈话会煞风景，那你可能本就不应该处于那种情况下，尤其是现在性文化过度推崇及那种暴力事件变得普遍的情况下，你需要能够开展那些谈话并且停下来说，嘿，告诉我一些你的过去。
Is there any triggers to make you uncomfortable? Let me know how it can be the best partner to you. And I'm sure that college age people are not having those conversations, but I'm sure that it would go a long way. So especially when you're young, college aged, you don't have enough experience to be able to read a person without having that conversation. There's a lot of times you can see the trauma without explicitly talking about that takes experience and knowledge and seeing the world.
有什么事情会让你感到不舒服吗？告诉我如何能成为你最好的伴侣。我确信大学年龄的人并不会进行那些谈话，但我相信那会起到很大作用。所以特别是当你还年轻，大学年龄，你没有足够的经验来能够在没有那种谈话的情况下读懂一个人。有很多时候你可以看到创伤，而不需要明确谈论，这需要经验、知识和看待世界的方式。
When you're young and you don't know, you really don't know shit, making things a bit more explicit is probably better. Yeah. And also, as men were trained to believe that it's our duty to be the initiatory party in any type of sexual encounter, like, oh, like man, she's this woman, you know what I mean? You have to be the one to make the move and or like she's playing hard to get if she's resistant to your first compliment or something.
当你年轻并且不知道的时候，实际上你一无所知，更加明确地表达可能更好。是的。而且，作为男性，我们被训练认为在任何性接触中都是我们的责任成为发起方，比如，哦，这个女人，你知道我是什么意思吗？你必须是那个采取行动的人，或者她对你的第一个赞美或者其他事情持抵制态度的话，她可能在玩难以追或者在故意不配合。
I think that that's not always how it has to be and that extra caution needs to be placed if you're taking the initiatory role in an interaction, especially if someone has a traumatic background. They might agree to do something with you because they're scared and you might not realize that's what's going on, but because you don't you don't see yourself as a predatory person. You don't see yourself as someone who would ever consciously make someone uncomfortable or cross a boundary, but people have histories that you might not understand.
我认为并不一定就是这样，如果你在交往中扮演主动角色，尤其是当对方有创伤背景时，需要更加谨慎。他们可能会同意和你做某件事是因为害怕，而你可能没有意识到这一点，因为你不会把自己看作是一个搞不好就会让人感到不舒服或者越过界限的人。但是，人们有着你可能无法理解的历史。
And for me, as someone who doesn't have much honestly, like childhood trauma or anything like that, it's been an interesting year for me working in therapy and elsewhere, understanding how that affects the mind. And also I understand hurt people hurt people and that someone with a traumatic background isn't going to have sympathy for applying that traumatic pain to someone else, even if that person isn't the cause of what put them in that spot.
对于我来说，作为一个没有太多童年创伤之类的人，过去的一年对我来说在治疗和其他方面工作相当有意思，我开始理解这些如何影响心灵。我也明白受伤害的人会伤害别人，一个有创伤背景的人不会对把这种创伤痛苦施加在别人身上感到同情，即使那个人并不是将他们置于这种状态的原因。
If we can go back to Channel 5, can you tell the origin story of that? Yeah, I mean, Channel 5. We during the August, no breaks days, we used to tell people that we were called Channel 5 if we wanted them to stop antagonizing us while we were filming because every town has a Channel 5. So when people were like, what's this for? If they're being super rude and like trying to get in the camera and be hella obnoxious, we would just say, oh, we're Channel 5. And they would be like, oh, my grandma's going to see that and they would leave us alone. So Channel 5 was a diversion tactic during all gas, no breaks. And it just so happened that we were in Miami Beach one time. And this kid came up like drinking liquor, like, you know, trying to yell about like whatever they would, whatever they yell about in Miami Beach, like titties or whatever. And we're like, bro, this is Channel 5. Be careful what you say. And he was like, for real and he just walked off. And I said to my friend at the time, I was like, that's not a pretty good, right? Channel 5. And he goes, that's not pretty good. He's like, that's got to be trademark, though. No. It's not trademark.
如果我们能回到第五频道，你能告诉我们那个起源故事吗？是的，我的意思是，第五频道。在八月份，没有休息的日子里，我们曾告诉人们，如果我们想让他们停止在拍摄时干扰我们，我们叫自己是第五频道，因为每个城镇都有一个第五频道。所以当人们问，这是为了什么？如果他们非常无礼，并试图钻进摄像头，那我们就会说，哦，我们是第五频道。他们会说，哦，我的祖母会看到那个，然后就会离开我们。第五频道是在“全力以赴，无休息”期间的一种转移策略。碰巧有一次我们在迈阿密海滩。一个孩子走过来，喝酒，试图大声疾呼，谈论迈阿密海滩的事情，比如胸部之类的。我们说，兄弟，这是第五频道。说话小心。他就问，真的吗？然后走开了。当时我对我的朋友说，这不错，对吧？第五频道。他说，这不错，但可能会被注册商标。不，不会被注册商标。
It's crazy, right? There's a Channel 5 in every city, Channel 5 KTLA, Channel 5 Seattle, Como News. Dude, Channel 5 itself. We own it. Because no one's thought of something that simple because you'd think you'd have to specify we own Channel 5.com Channel 5. And dude, we own it. It's awesome. So it was the same kind of spirit as as the previous thing. Yeah. What was the first one you did under the Channel 5 flag Miami Beach spring break? I think I've seen that and it's going to be a callback. I think I think there. I think somebody mentioning eating ass there, too. That would be the place. I believe that was only about five places in the US where people yell about eating ass all the time, Bourbon Street, South Beach, Miami, six street in Austin, Broadway in Nashville. And I'm just going to go ahead and say Times Square. You might not think it, but Times Square, really. Yeah, the yellow badass there.
这简直太疯狂了，对吧？每个城市都有一个Channel 5，Channel 5 KTLA，Channel 5 Seattle，Como News。兄弟，Channel 5本身。我们拥有它。因为没有人想到过这么简单的事情，因为你会觉得必须明确指出我们拥有Channel 5.com Channel 5。兄弟，我们拥有它。太棒了。所以它和之前的事情有相同的精神。对。你在Channel 5旗下做的第一个项目是迈阿密海滩的春假吧？我想我见过那个，会有回味。我想我在那里听到别人也提到了吃屁股。那肯定就是那里了。我相信在美国只有大约五个地方人们总是大喊着要吃屁股，波旁街、迈阿密南海滩、奥斯汀的第六大街、纳什维尔的百老汇。我要直说时代广场也是。你可能不认为，但时代广场，真的。是的，屁股要在那里吃。
Times Square. I would say Beale Street in Memphis, but it's not it's not good. Oh, yeah. I mean, Beale Street is like that. The median age is too high on Beale Street for anyone to yell about ass. Oh, this is a fascinating portrait of America through that specific lens. So Miami Beach and then how would you describe your style of interviewing? Just now that you've collected so many. If you if you had a style, how would you describe this? I guess before, especially it used to be like deadpan. Now I would describe it as more directed, but still relatively affable, agreeable, deadpan interview style. Yeah, there's a like in the face of absurdity.
时代广场。我会说孟菲斯的比尔街，但那不太好。哦，是的。我的意思是，比尔街就是那样。比尔街的中位年龄太高，没人会为了屁股大喊大叫。哦，这是一个通过特定视角对美国进行的迷人肖像。所以迈阿密海滩，那么你如何描述你的采访风格呢？刚刚你已经收集了这么多采访，如果你有一个风格，你会如何描述它？我想以前，尤其是以前，我会说是死板的。现在我会说是更有目标性，但仍然相对友好，同意的，死板的采访风格。是的，在荒谬面前有一种...
Yeah, it was just like there with a microphone that there's a there's a comic aspect to it. And that's intentional. Yeah, I used to look at the camera like Jim from the office back in the day. Yeah, I don't do that anymore. What about the editing? Like, how do you think about the editing? I still do most of it, but Susan helps a lot too. It's my associate. Yeah, the editing style, like I said, we pioneered this editing style that honestly was inspired a bit by like Vic Burger, but we took it to real life. Crash zooms kind of chopping up vocals a bit to add comedic timing where it didn't necessarily exist. Like you might add two seconds of awkward silence that are built with room tone, or you might make everything really fast by cutting silence and switching frames.
是的，就像在那里有一个麦克风，有一个滑稽的方面。这是有意的。是的，过去我会像《办公室》里的吉姆一样看着摄像头。但现在我不这样做了。编辑方面呢？你怎么看待编辑？我大部分时间还是自己做，但苏珊也经常帮忙。她是我的助手。是的，我说过，我们开创了这种编辑风格，受到维克·勃格的启发，但我们把它应用到了现实生活中。像是爆炸式放大和剪辑声音，增加滑稽效果，使本来并不存在的喜剧时机变得更有趣。比如你可能会增加两秒尴尬的沉默，用房间音调来填充，或者通过切换帧来加快一切。
I mean, switching camera angles. But now we try to be pretty straightforward because we want to be taken more seriously. You know, yeah, sure. What's crash zoom by the way? A crash zoom is when the like it's artificial zoom that you might add in it. Adobe Premiere, where the camera zooms in on someone's face. Where the resolution is not there. The resolution is not there unless you have a like a black magic cinema camera, which you don't we don't we don't use those. The file size is too big. The file that's still in constraint. Yeah, and you also do voiceover storytelling. I think the first time I really did that was in the San Francisco streets video because there's so much content about San Francisco homelessness, tenderloin shoplifting, but there's not that much context in those videos about the history of San Francisco, the housing crisis, nimbyism, random zoning stuff that sounds boring, but has a major role in the current situation on the streets there as to why the tenderloin is neglected by police and by the city council and the other neighborhoods like Knob Hill and North Beach are so nice.
我的意思是，切换摄像机角度。但现在我们试图更加直截了当，因为我们希望更受重视。你知道的，是的，当然。对了，什么是冲击变焦呢？冲击变焦是一种人为的缩放效果，你可以在Adobe Premiere中添加，摄像机会缩放到某人的脸部。除非你使用像黑魔法电影摄像机这样的设备，否则就无法达到这样的分辨率。文件大小会很大，文件仍然受到限制。是的，你还配音讲述故事。我觉得我第一次真正做到这一点是在旧金山街头的视频中，因为有关旧金山流浪汉、特德洛因盗窃等内容太多了，但是这些视频中关于旧金山历史、住房危机、NIMBY主义、随意的分区规划等背景资料并不多，尽管这些听起来很无聊，但实际上在解释为什么特德洛因被警察和市政府忽视，而其他社区如诺布山和北海滩如此美好的街道上为什么会发生目前的情况中扮演着重要角色。
So I added that purposely to the San Francisco video and then also to the Philadelphia streets video to accentuate the reporting and add some historical analysis. What's your goal with some of these videos like the Philadelphia streets one? Is it to reveal the full spectrum of humanity or is it also to tell a story that's almost political state number one is always humanization. That's the primary goal is to take people in circumstances where they're often news items and remind the public that these are people with lives and concerns and dreams just like you. But secondly, we also want to start introducing more solution oriented journalism. So not just, oh, my God, I'm becoming aware of how horrible this is, but what can you actually do to help? And as you can see with the Vegas tunnels video, people are responding pretty positively to it. Like here's how you can maybe help a homeless neighbor help get them an ID, help them qualify for housing or get a job at the scrapyard. There's always ways to help, but so much of the YouTube world is oversaturated by just like endless videos of people suffering. And the comments are always like, wow, so horrible. What does that really do for somebody?
因此，我特意在旧金山视频中添加了这个元素，然后也在费城街头视频中添加了这个元素，以突出报道并添加一些历史分析。对于像费城街头这样的视频，你的目标是什么？是为了展现人类的全部色彩，还是为了讲述一个几乎是政治性的故事，首要目标始终是人性化。这是主要目标，是将人们置身于通常是新闻事件的环境中，并提醒公众这些人也有生活、关注和梦想，就像你一样。但其次，我们也希望开始引入更多解决方案导向的新闻报道。所以不只是，“天啊，我意识到这是多么可怕”，而是你究竟能做些什么来帮助？正如你在拉斯维加斯隧道视频中所看到的，人们对此反应非常积极。比如，你可以帮助一个无家可归的邻居获取身份证件，帮助他们有资格申请住房，或者在废品场找工作。总是有帮助的方式，但是YouTube世界中有太多无休止的人们遭受痛苦的视频。评论总是像，“哇，太可怕了”。这对某人到底有什么帮助呢？
You've interviewed many rappers. Yes. And you keep me. There's a lot to it. Yeah. Can you explain this drill wrap situation? What is drill? A revolving situation. Drill began in 2010. Some people say it was Chief Keef in Chicago. I think it was King Louie in Chicago, but I think all of it was very influenced by Walk of Flock of Flame, who dropped an album called Flock of Valley in 2010. It was like hyper violent adrenaline boosting. Rap music made by people who were actually in the streets. So in the 90s, you had 50 cent, you had a rapper's rapping about like whatever gangster shit selling crack and beating people up, but they weren't actually doing it. Drill has a true crime component to where drill fans want to know that the person rapping about catching bodies does in fact kill people. So drill is pretty horrifying. It sounds great, but it started in Chicago. Then it spread to England and now it's bounced back to New York, just like the Bronx and Brooklyn specifically and spread from New York to the rest of the country. So now there's probably a drill rapper every 10 square miles. So these are as opposed to pretending to be a gangster. Killing people, you get some credibility by actually doing it. Yes, and the fans are typically not in the communities that are affected by poverty. So they're kind of like superheroes to white kids. It's dark and not just white kids, but just anyone who's not in the hood. It's not necessarily a race thing. There's white drill rappers to Slim Jesus was a big one. He's out of the picture now, but there's there's white drill rappers. Slim Jesus. You made a video on a O block. Yeah.
你采访过许多说唱歌手。是的，你一直留着我。这其中有很多内幕。是的。你能解释一下这个“drill wrap”的情况吗？什么是drill？一个不断变化的情况。Drill始于2010年。有人说是芝加哥的Chief Keef。我认为是芝加哥的King Louie，但我觉得所有这一切都受到了Walk of Flock of Flame的影响，他于2010年发行了一张名为Flock of Valley的专辑。这是由真正身在街头的人制作的高度暴力、充满肾上腺素的说唱音乐。所以在90年代，你有50分，有一些说唱歌手唱着像贩卖毒品、殴打人等黑社会的事情，但他们并没有真的做这些。Drill有一个真实犯罪的组成部分，drill的粉丝们想要知道那些唱着捅人的人是否真的杀过人。所以drill相当令人恐惧。听起来不错，但它起源于芝加哥。然后传播到英格兰，现在又反弹回到了纽约，在布朗克斯和布鲁克林特别浓厚，然后从纽约传播到整个国家。所以现在大概每10平方英里就有一个drill说唱歌手。所以这些人不是假装是黑帮分子，而是通过真的去杀人来获得可信度。是的，而且粉丝通常不是生活在贫困社区的人。所以对白人孩子们来说，他们有点像超级英雄。这是黑暗的，不只是白人孩子，而是任何不生活在贫民区的人。这不一定是一个种族问题。有白人drill说唱歌手，比如Slim Jesus是一个大人物。他现在已经退出了，但有白人drill说唱歌手。你拍了一段在O区的视频，是吗？是的。
What is what is O block? The place, the culture, the people you know, O block is a housing project in South Chicago in the Englewood area where Michelle Obama grew up. It's also where Chief Keef was born and raised. I don't know if he was born there, but he was raised there and he is the the forefather of modern drill music as we know it. So these are the projects where drill began. It's also the first place where you have that intersection of drill music and true crime because O block has a lot of rappers and then nearby is an area called St. Lawrence, a gay Tukaville, which has a lot of rappers as well. And so these two rival drill gangs basically have, you know, a lot of history and it connects to music at large.
O block是什么？这个地方，这种文化，你所认识的人，O block是位于南芝加哥Englewood地区的住房项目，米歇尔·奥巴马就是在那里长大的。这也是Chief Keef的出生地和成长地点。我不知道他是否在那里出生，但他是我们认识的现代drill音乐的奠基人。所以这些项目是drill音乐起源的地方。这也是第一个将drill音乐和真实犯罪结合起来的地方，因为O block有很多说唱歌手，附近还有一个叫St. Lawrence、又名Tukaville的区域，也有很多说唱歌手。这两支对立的drill团伙基本上有很多历史，使其牵扯到更广泛的音乐领域。
So you've interviewed people there. What was there any concern for your safety? No, I mean, I think that O block has calmed down a lot for one, a security so you can't even really get in and out. But two, I think that O block's trying to rebrand itself a lot because it could be because Lil Durk's avoiding a reco charge could be for a variety of reasons. I know you don't know exactly what that means, but Lil Durk or a reco jerk is from affiliated with O block and a lot of people have been murdered and retribution for killings that Lil Durk may or may not have influenced the ordering of. But anyways, a little dark documented the killings in the VR app music, probably.
你在那里采访过人们了。有没有为你的安全感到担忧吗？不，我的意思是，我觉得O区现在安静了很多，首先是安保措施很严格，你几乎进不去也出不来。其次，我觉得O区正在努力改头换面，可能是因为小达克避免被控犯罪，也可能是其他原因。我知道你可能不知道这是什么意思，但是小达克或者一场幽灵曲是与O区联系在一起的，很多人被谋杀，作为对小达克所影响的杀人行为的报复。总之，小达克在VR应用音乐中记录了这些杀戮。
OK, I know you don't know about drill and but Lil Durk was associated with a rapper named King Von and King Von perhaps paid for the assassination of a rapper named FPG Duck who got killed in Chicago's Gold Coast neighborhood. It's possible. The O block six or drill associated, not rappers, but just shooters. And they perhaps operate on King Von's behalf when it killed FPG Duck. King Von was Lil Durk's artist. King Von's now dead.
好的，我知道你可能不了解与芝加哥的乐队和勇士（drill）有关的信息，但是Lil Durk曾与一位名叫King Von的说唱歌手有关联，而King Von可能曾为谋杀一位叫做FPG Duck的说唱歌手付款，而后者就是在芝加哥金海岸（Gold Coast）社区被谋杀的。这种可能性是存在的。O区六或者与勇士有关的人不一定是说唱歌手，而可能只是射手。他们可能是替King Von行事时击毙了FPG Duck。King Von是Lil Durk的艺人。现在King Von已经去世。
So there's definitely a concern that some of the fed charges will fall on dirt. Not sure if that's true, but it's rumors in the hip hop community. So O block right now and when I film the video is trying to go through a major imagery have, if you go on any Instagram of anyone in O block, they've all converted to Islam and so they post pictures of themselves praying in the morning and have captions like put the guns down. Let's pray.
因此，有人确实担心一些联邦指控会落在肮脏的地方。不确定这是否属实，但这是嘻哈社区中的谣言。所以现在奥布洛克，当我拍摄视频时，正试图经历一次重要的形象改变，如果你上奥布洛克的任何人的Instagram，他们都改信伊斯兰教，所以他们发布自己早上祈祷的照片，还配有像“放下枪支，让我们一起祈祷”的字幕。
So I think when I went there, they saw it as a good opportunity to do a positive rebrand and so I interviewed a rapper named Boss Top who was there all the way back in 2011 when Chief Keef was coming up and so he basically ensured my safe protection. But he didn't even need to. They're all very friendly and they know exactly what's up with YouTube stuff. I like how 2011 is the old days like the ancient. Oh, yeah, the founding fathers. I was in eighth grade. Oh, man, time flies when you're having fun. It sure does.
所以我想，当我去那里时，他们把这看作是一个积极重新塑造的好机会，所以我采访了一位名叫Boss Top的说唱歌手，他在2011年时就在那里，当时Chief Keef正在崛起。他基本上确保了我的安全保护。但实际上他根本不需要这样做。他们都很友好，对YouTube的事情了如指掌。我喜欢2011年被称为古老的时代，就像是古代一样。哦，是的，开国之父们。我那时是八年级。哦，时间过得真快，当你开心时。是的，确实如此。
Little dark. Where's a little dark now? Atlanta. So you left Chicago, not safe. Yeah, I mean, every rep rest to leave their hometown. That's what I did. It's a journey. Seattle would have taken me out, bro. How's your I mean, you do interview a lot of people. I mean, that's like a top comment, but it speaks to the reality of the fact that you always find somebody rapping or you. Yeah, you create the space for people to rap. What's that about? I don't know, man. They're usually really good. You think so? I appreciate it. Well, hell yeah, man. I mean, rappers in their own way since I touched a microphone. Rappers have gravitated toward me. I think there's something happening. You're a rapper whisperer. I think there's something happening on a deeper cosmic spiritual level that lets the mind of rappers know that like they have a safe place in front of our camera crew.
有点黑暗。现在有点黑暗在哪里？亚特兰大。所以你离开了芝加哥，不安全。是的，我是说，每个rapper都想离开他们的家乡。这就是我所做的。这是一段旅程。西雅图本来会让我垮掉，兄弟。你怎么样？我是说，你经常采访很多人。我是说，这是一个很顶级的评论，但它反映了现实，即你总能找到有人rap或者有人rap给你听。是的，你为人们创造了rap的空间。那是怎么回事？我不知道，伙计。他们通常很棒。你觉得呢？我很感激。那当然啊，伙计。我的意思是，自从我拿起麦克风以来，rapper们以自己的方式等于我。我觉得有些事情在发生。你是rapper的贴心人。我觉得有些事情在更深层次的宇宙精神层面上发生，让rapper们知道他们在我们的摄影团队面前有一个安全的地方。
You have an interview with Kurt Mac. I do. For a secret Mac. He's a girl right now. Oh, he is. Yeah. Is that a hashtag? Yeah, for sure. What that's an intense interview. People should go watch it. People should go watch your all your interviews. But that one is pretty intense. Thanks. I was a little afraid for your life. Oh, Kurt Mac's the safest guy in the world. Is a sweetheart. Oh, definitely do. Yeah, but it's fun. I feel like more safe around Kurt Mac than I do on any given pedestrian. Yeah, he was loud and flavorful. Yeah, I should say.
你要接受Kurt Mac的采访。是的，是为了一个秘密的Mac。他现在是个女孩对吧。哦，是的。是个话题标签吗？是的，当然。那个采访很激烈。人们应该去看。人们应该去看你所有的采访。但那个真的很激烈。谢谢。我有点担心你的生命安全。哦，Kurt Mac是世界上最安全的人。是个好心人。是的，肯定是。是的，但很有趣。我觉得在Kurt Mac身边比在任何行人身边都更安全。是的，他很吵闹而且富有风味。是的，我想说的就是这样。
So who's he? What's his story? Well, his name's Trevor. He grew up in Ontario, California in the inland empire. Moved to Texas with his mom after his dad left. His mom started starting to start dating a cop from Houston named Mr. Gary. His mom found Mr. Gary getting, you know, an only penetrated by a co-worker. And so she booked. Crit Mac, a one way Greyhound ticket to LA where he joined the Crips. That's a good story. You know, it's true. You've got the right to Mr. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah, I'm just saying that, you know, he's a classic case of somebody without a father figure who found camaraderie and, you know, sense of belonging and purpose in a street gang, which in LA is like a rule of law in most of the city.
那他是谁？他的故事是什么？嗯，他叫特雷弗。他在加利福尼亚州内陆帝国的安大略长大。在他爸爸离开后，他和他妈妈搬到了德克萨斯州。他妈妈开始和来自休斯敦的警察加里先生约会。他妈妈发现加里先生和一个同事发生关系，于是她离开了。她给克里特·麦克买了一张单程灰狗车票到洛杉矶，在那里他加入了克里普斯帮派。这是一个不错的故事。你知道，这是真的。你说得对，是的，是的。当然，我只是想说，他是一个典型的没有父亲形象的人，他在街头帮派中找到了友情、归属感和目的，而在洛杉矶，这就像是大部分城市的法律规定。
Oh, we're I forget what context earlier talking about martial arts and fighting and he's got to work on his punching form. All right. Yeah, I think so. He gets into a lot of fights in jail, though. And from what I've heard, he wins like he does half of them. So it's good. All right. What do you go to jail for now? Firearm possession was a probation violation. Oh, it's too bad. All right. What's so Philly? You went to the border. Occupy Seattle protests. You went to Ukraine. Yeah. What are some interesting things that stand out to you for memory? Just as I asked the question, some interesting. I mean, I was in jail at the border for a while. That was horrible. What was that like? Was that your first time? Yeah. Well, you know, I didn't know that I couldn't hop my own border as an American. I'm thinking this is my country. I can get in any way that I want wrong. You can only enter the US through an official board of entry, which I learned the hard way because I got arrested by border patrol and held as a detainee at a migrant center for a few days.
哦，我们前面谈论过武术和打架，他得改进他的拳击姿势。是的，我想是的。不过他在监狱里经常打架。据我听说，他大概赢了一半。这很好。好吧，他现在为什么又去监狱了？持有枪支违反了缓刑。哦，太糟糕了。好吧，你去过边境吗？参加西雅图占领抗议活动。你去过乌克兰吗？对，有没有什么令人印象深刻的事情？刚刚问到这问题时想到一些有趣的事情。我的意思是，我曾经在边境的监狱里呆过一段时间。那太糟糕了。那是你第一次吗？是的。嗯，你知道我不知道作为美国人我不能随便穿越国境。我以为这是我的国家，我可以随便进出，是错的。你只能通过官方边境口岸进入美国，这我学到了最艰辛的方式，因为我被边境巡逻队逮捕，并在一个移民中心被拘留了几天。
What was the that like horrible, which aspect? I mean, well, for what? Like, I don't know. It was just to be in a place like that. And I probably sound like such a wimp right now because I know someone's watching this who's done some hard time. But we thought we were going to do at least six months in jail because the guards freaked us out and we're like, you're being charged with a federal crime. You know what you boys did is serious. We're waiting on word from San Antonio about whether or not we're going to extradite you. So we're just sitting in these cells alone, most of the time in solitary with no pillows, just to smoke pillows, no pillows, no mat. Then just a space blanket and I was sleeping on my shoes, stinking up the place. It was no good. You mentioned the UFO convention. Yeah. What have you learned from those guys? The ophologists. I really want to know what you think about that. That's the one question that I want to reverse on you because you've talked to so many people. Do you think that aliens have actually visited Earth? Yeah. When? When exact dates? I do. I think there's alien civilizations everywhere. I talked to a lot of people that have doubts about it. I just think I even suspect there's an intelligent alien civilization in our galaxy. And I just can't imagine them not having visited us. So I lean on that. What that actually looks like, I don't know. The stuff we're seeing in terms of UFO sightings, I think that's much more likely to the degree it's real, it's much more likely government projects. So military, Lockheed Martin, this kind of stuff.
那种可怕的东西是什么样的？我的意思是，那是为了什么？嗯，我不知道。只是在那样的地方待着。现在我可能听起来像个软弱的人，因为我知道有人在看这个视频，可能经历过艰难的时刻。但我们以为自己至少要在监狱呆六个月，因为看守吓坏了我们，告诉我们说，你们被控犯了联邦罪。你知道你们做的是严重的。我们正在等圣安东尼奥的消息，看看我们是否会被引渡。所以我们就只能独自关在牢房里，大部分时间都是单独关押，没有枕头，只能抽烟，没有床垫，只有一床太空毯，我就睡在鞋子上，把整个地方弄臭了。那种情况太糟糕了。你提到了不明飞行物大会。嗯，你从那些人身上学到了什么？飞碟学家。我真的想知道你对此的看法。这是我想反问你的一个问题，因为你已经和那么多人交谈过。你认为外星人实际上曾经访问过地球吗？是的，我认为他们来过。什么时候？具体日期？我相信有外星文明遍布各地。我和许多人交谈过，他们对此表示怀疑。我只是怀疑我们的银河系中可能存在着一个智慧的外星文明。我只是无法想象他们没有来访过我们。所以我倾向于这种观点。确切的外星人到底是什么样的，我不知道。至于我们看到的关于不明飞行物的情况，我认为更有可能是军方项目。军方，洛克希德马丁公司，这种东西。
So you think that they have knowledge of it? Yeah. Yeah. One thing I think about with aliens is scale. So we have this idea that an alien would be a gray alien or almost human would look alike that would visit us in human form, arms, legs, head. But who's to say that they're not able to shrink down to microscopic size, but the same neural capacity? Yeah, or just have a very difficult to perceive form. But I mean, they would go small, not big. No, I think that would take a human-led like form just to be able to communicate with humans. I think the big challenge with aliens is to be able to find a common language. So if you come to another planet and you suspect that there's some kind of complexity going on, but it looks nothing like humans, you have to find a common language. And I think aliens would try to take physical form that's similar. Yeah. That I was dumb humans would understand. Language is really interesting too. I have this series that I'm going to announce for the first time on here, but I'm really interested in endangered languages in the US. There's like 150 languages in the US with less than a thousand speakers. Wow. And I want to like help spearhead efforts to preserve some of these. For example, Hawaiian sign language, 15 of those people left. Holy shit. Because when Hawaii got annexed, the ASL community tried to make it so the deaf native Hawaiians wouldn't be able to speak their native sign language. And so they would do it under the desks at like schools for the deaf and blind. And they would get like their mouth, watch that, wash that with soap and stuff if they so much as did the Hawaiian hand signs. Also the Gullah Gucci language in the South Carolina Sea Islands, Hilton Head Island and stuff. That's like a, it's almost a Creole language. It's been in the US for hundreds of years, existing in isolation. That's being threatened by golf course developments. I don't know how into language you are, but I've been getting super nerded out about it.
所以你认为他们对此有所了解？是的。是的。我在想外星人的一个问题是规模。我们有这样一个想法，外星人可能是灰色外星人，或几乎类似人类的外表，可能以人的形式造访我们，有胳膊，腿，头。但谁能说他们不能缩小到微观大小，但有着相同的神经容量呢？是的，或者只是有着难以察觉的形态。但我认为，他们会变得小，而不是大。不，我认为他们会采取类似人类的形式，只是为了能够和人类交流。我认为外星人的一个巨大挑战就是找到一种共同的语言。所以如果你去另一个星球，你怀疑那里存在某种复杂性，但它看起来与人类毫不相似，你得找到一种共同的语言。我认为外星人会试图采取类似的肉体形式。是的，我认为我太蠢，人类才能理解。语言也是非常有趣的。我有一个系列，这是我第一次在这里公布，但我对美国濒危语言非常感兴趣。美国有大约150种语言，使用者不到一千人。哇。我想帮助推动保护其中一些的努力。例如，夏威夷手语，只剩下15个人。天哪。因为当夏威夷被吞并时，美国手语社区试图让聋哑的夏威夷土著无法使用他们的本土手语。他们会在聋哑学校的桌子下做，如果他们使用夏威夷手势，他们的嘴巴会被用肥皂洗净之类的。还有南卡罗来纳州海岛上的古拉古吉语，希尔顿黑德岛等地。这几乎是一种克里奥语言。在美国已有数百年历史，处于与世隔绝状态。它正面临着高尔夫球场开发的威胁。我不知道你对语言有多感兴趣，但我一直对语言非常着迷。
Actually, I'm interviewing somebody tomorrow who's an expert in human language. He's from MIT studying the syntax of a lot of languages, including in the Amazon jungle, the the peoples that live in the Amazon jungle region. Yeah, it's fascinating. Human language is fascinating. And also the barriers that creates and also how the games are played to what you're speaking by governments. This is part of the story of Russian Ukraine is as a battle over language. The Ukrainian language is a symbol of independence, which is why they they were trying to make it the primary language of the nation. And so sometimes the language represents the culture and the peoples. Yeah, it's like intricately tied to the culture of the people. I've been trying to learn never, which language do you know? Spanish and English. Spanish. Well, see. I don't know Spanish that well. So that passes me. Yeah, your fluid. Yes. Oh, it doesn't. Oh, that was good. Yeah. That was real Cancun spring break. Well, I actually speak fluent Spanish, according to Spotify, because there's a every episode translated over dub by AI in Spanish. Oh, my God. Yeah, there's a very Spanish robot. As a Spanish robot, it's really I sound like incredibly intelligent, intellectual and Spanish. They make it. Freedman. Exactly. From everything you've done, all the people you've seen, do you think most people are good underneath it all? Yeah. So the ones that do all the extreme should OK, I'll put it like this. Most people think they're doing the best thing for the world. I don't think anyone except for maybe a small fraction of sociopaths wakes up every day and says, I'm going to fuck somebody's life up today. I think the far majority of people are fighting for what they think is right and do want to see America succeed and want us to be in a happy place where no one is subjugated. I just think people have drastically different ideas of what means will get us there. And unfortunately, that's leading to a lot of misunderstandings between cultures. And yeah, I think that most people are good. I've been through some things that leads me to believe that a lot of people though are primarily motivated by self-interest and that in a fight or flight situation, most people will choose flight.
实际上，明天我要采访一个人，他是人类语言专家。他来自麻省理工学院，研究许多语言的句法，包括亚马逊丛林地区的居民。是的，这太迷人了。人类语言是迷人的。还有创造障碍以及政府如何操纵言语的游戏。这是俄罗斯乌克兰之间围绕语言展开斗争的一部分。乌克兰语是独立的象征，这就是为什么他们试图把它作为国家的主要语言。有时语言代表着文化和人民。是的，语言与人民的文化紧密相连。我一直在努力学习，你懂哪些语言？西班牙语和英语。西班牙语。噢看吧，我不太懂得西班牙语。所以就过去了。是的，你很流利。是的。哦，不是吗。哦，那很好。是的，那很像坎昆春假。实际上，根据Spotify的说法，我会说流利的西班牙语，因为每一集都有AI翻译成西班牙语的版本。哦，天哪，有一个非常西班牙的机器人。是的，有一个非常西班牙的机器人，它让我听起来非常聪明、智慧和西班牙。他们把它搞得很自由主义。确实，从你所做的一切，见过的所有人来看，你认为大多数人内心都是善良的吗？是的，那些做出极端行为的人不行。我这样说吧，大多数人认为他们为这个世界做的事情是最好的。我不认为除了可能是一小部分的反社会主义者之外，有人会每天醒来说，我今天要破坏某个人的生活。我认为大多数人都在为他们认为正确的事情而奋斗，希望美国成功，并希望我们生活在一个没有人被奴役的快乐世界里。我只是认为人们对于如何实现这一目标所采取的手段存在着极大的分歧。不幸的是，这导致了很多文化之间的误解。是的，我认为大多数人是好人。我经历过一些事情，这让我相信，许多人主要受到自身利益的驱使，在风波和逃跑的情况下，大多数人会选择逃跑。
So I don't know if people are courageous as a whole, but I think generally good. But the energy to stand up for what's right, not sure about that. They have the capacity though to do good. I think human beings are inherently selfish as well. But I don't think that selfish is inherently bad. I think humans are primarily motivated by self-interest. But generally have positive intentions. I do hope more humans rise to the occasion and have courage, courage of their convictions, courage to have integrity. But yeah, I think that most people are good and they want to do good and they have the capacity to do a lot of good. That's why I have hope for this whole thing. We got to go on.
因此，我不知道人们是否整体上都勇敢，但我认为大体上是善良的。但是要为正义站出来所需的能量，我不确定。他们确实有能力做好事。我认为人类从本质上是自私的。但我并不认为自私本质上是坏的。我认为人类主要受到自我利益的驱使。但总体来说他们有积极的意图。我希望更多的人能够挺身而出，拥有勇气，信念的勇气，拥有诚信的勇气。但是，我认为大多数人是善良的，他们希望做好事，也有能力做许多好事。这就是我对整个事情充满希望的原因。我们必须继续前行。
How do you heal the misunderstandings between people you think listening? It's the only option we have. No forced education, no forced meetings or mediations between political opponents. Just listen to more people and really listen. Try to get rid of whatever preconceived notions you might have about how you should feel about someone you are supposed to disagree with and just keep your ears and your heart open to people that you don't know and your life will change. Keep your heart open. A lot of people are scared to listen.
你如何来消除你认为是由于听不同而产生的误解? 听取对方的意见是我们唯一的选择。没有强迫教育，没有强迫让政治对手开会或调解。只需要更多地倾听别人，并且真正倾听。试着摒弃你对于那些与你不同意见的人可能持有的任何成见，只要让自己的耳朵和心灵敞开，去倾听那些你不了解的人，你的生活会发生改变。保持开放的心态。很多人因为害怕而选择不倾听。
Well, Andrew, I'm a big fan and thank you for being one of the best listeners in the world and showing the full spectrum of humanity to us so we can listen as well and learn and just thank you for doing everything you're doing. Hey, man, thanks so much for having me on. You're a great man. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Andrew Kalkin. Support this podcast. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from Hunter S. Thompson. The edge. There is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.
嗯，安德鲁，我是你的忠实粉丝，感谢你成为世界上最好的倾听者之一，向我们展现出人类完整的光谱，让我们也可以倾听和学习，感谢你所做的一切。嘿，伙计，非常感谢你邀请我参加节目。你是个了不起的人。谢谢兄弟，我很感激。谢谢你收听安德鲁·卡尔金的对话。请支持这个播客，请查看描述中的赞助商。现在让我用亨特·S·汤普森的话作为结束语：“边缘。没有诚实的方式可以解释它，因为真正了解它在哪里的人，只有那些已经越过边缘的人。”感谢您的收听，希望下次再见。