TikTok, Snap, Meta, and X CEOs testify in Senate hearing – watch live - YouTube
发布时间 2024-01-31 04:59:19 来源
Testimony of this truthful and honest and complete. Let me ask you this, Joe Biden last year said that Xi Jinping was a dictator. Do you agree with Joe Biden as Xi Jinping a dictator?
这份证词真实、诚实且完整。让我问你一下，乔·拜登去年曾表示习近平是一个独裁者。你同意乔·拜登的观点吗？认为习近平是一个独裁者吗？
Senator, I'm not gonna comment on any world leaders.
议员，我不打算对任何世界领导人发表评论。
Why won't you answer these very simple questions?
为什么你不回答这些非常简单的问题呢？
Senator, it's not appropriate for me if a business man to comment on world leaders.
议员，作为一个商人，我不适合对世界领导人发表评论。
Are you scared that you'll lose your job if you say anything about negative about the Chinese Communist Party?
你害怕如果你对中国共产党有任何负面言论，会导致你失去工作吗？
I disagree that.
我不同意那个观点。
Are you scared that you'll be arrested in China on our platform?
你害怕在我们的平台上被中国拘留吗？
Are you scared that you'll be arrested and disappeared the next time you go to mainland China?
你害怕下次去中国大陆会被逮捕和消失吗？
You will find content that's critical of China and any other country freely on TikTok.
在TikTok上，你会自由地找到对中国或其他国家持批评态度的内容。
Let's turn to what TikTok, a tool of the Chinese Communist Party is doing to America's youth.
让我们来看看中国共产党的工具抖音(TikTok)对美国年轻人做了些什么。
Does the name Mason Edens-Ranabelle?
这个名字是 Mason Edens-Ranabelle 吗？
Senator, you may have to give me more specifics if you don't mind.
参议员，如果您不介意的话，您可能需要给我更多具体信息。表达意思是：请问参议员，如果您没有意见的话，您可能需要提供更多的具体细节。
Yeah, he was a 16 year old or Kenzen. After a breakup in 2022, he went on your platform and searched for things like inspirational quotes and positive affirmations. Instead, he was served up numerous videos glamorizing suicide until he killed himself by gun.
是的，他是一个16岁的Kenzen。在2022年分手之后，他来到你们的平台上搜索了一些激励人心的语录和积极的肯定性言辞。然而，他却被播放了很多美化自杀的视频，直到他拿枪结束了自己的生命。
What about the name Chase Nasca? Does that ring a bell?
查斯·纳斯卡这个名字有没有让你想起些什么？
Would you mind giving me more details, please?
请问你介意给我更多的细节吗？
He was a 16 year old who saw more than a thousand videos on your platform about violence and suicide until he took his own life by stepping in front of a plane or train.
他是一个16岁的年轻人，在你们的平台上看了一千多个有关暴力和自杀的视频，直到他自己选择走入飞机或火车前面结束了他的生命。
Are you aware that his parents, Dean and Michelle, are suing TikTok and ByteDance for pushing their son to take his own life?
你知道他的父母迪安和米歇尔正在起诉TikTok和字节跳动，原因是他们认为这两家公司逼迫他们的儿子走上了自杀的道路吗？
Yes, I'm aware of that.
是的，我知道这件事。
Okay. Finally, Mr. Chu, has the Federal Trade Commission sued TikTok during the ByteDance Administration?
好的。最终，朱先生，在字节跳动执掌期间，联邦贸易委员会起诉了TikTok吗？
Senator, I cannot talk about whether it is any ongoing.
参议员，我不能谈论当前是否发生了任何事情。
Are you currently being sued by the Federal Trade Commission?
您当前是否正面临美国联邦贸易委员会的诉讼？
Senator, I cannot talk about any potential losses.
参议员，我不能谈论任何潜在的损失。
How does it say the potential? Actual?
如何表达潜力？实际情况是什么样的？
Are you being sued by the Federal Trade Commission?
您是否正被美国联邦贸易委员会起诉？意思是询问对方是否面临美国联邦贸易委员会的起诉。
Senator, I think I've given you my answer. I cannot talk about it.
议员，我想我已经给了你我的答案。我无法谈论这个。
No, Ms. Yacarino's company is being sued, I believe. Mr. Zuckerberg's company is being sued, I believe.
不，我相信是Yacarino女士的公司被起诉了。我相信是Zuckerberg先生的公司被起诉了。
Yet TikTok, the agent of the Chinese Communist Party is not being sued by the ByteDance Administration.
然而，代表中国共产党的抖音并未受到字节跳动管理层的起诉。表达的意思是尽管抖音被认为与中国共产党有关联，但字节跳动的管理层并没有对其提起诉讼。
Are you familiar with the name Christina Kefara?
你熟悉克里斯蒂娜·凯法拉这个名字吗？
You may have to give me more details.
你可能需要给我更多的细节。
Christina Kefara was a paid advisor to ByteDance, your Communist-influenced parent company. She was then hired by the ByteDance FTC to advise on how to sue Mr. Zuckerberg's company.
Christina Kefara曾是字节跳动的有薪顾问，而字节跳动是你们受共产主义影响的母公司。后来，她被字节跳动联邦贸易委员会聘请，以提供关于如何起诉扎克伯格先生的公司的建议。
Senator, ByteDance is a global company and not a Chinese Communist Party company. Public reports indicate that.
参议员，字节跳动是一家全球公司，而不是中国共产党的公司。公开报道指出了这一点。
Public reports indicate that your lobbyists visited the White House more than 40 times in 2022. How many times did your company's lobbyists visit the White House last year?
公开报告显示，你们的游说者在2022年访问了白宫40多次。贵公司的游说者去年在白宫访问了多少次？
I don't know that.
我不知道那个。
Are you aware that the ByteDance campaign and the Democratic National Committee is on your platform? They have TikTok accounts?
你知道字节跳动公司和美国民主党全国委员会在你们的平台上有存在吗？他们在TikTok上都有账号。
A senator, we encourage people to come on to create. Which by the way, they won't let their staffers use their personal phones. They give them separate phones that they only use TikTok line. We encourage everyone to join including yourself, Senator.
作为一名议员，我们鼓励人们加入并创造。顺便说一句，他们不允许他们的助手使用个人手机，而是给他们提供单独的手机，只用于TikTok通话。我们鼓励每个人都加入，包括您自己，议员。
So all these companies are being sued by the FTC. You're not.
所以所有这些公司都被联邦贸易委员会起诉了，而你没有。
The FTC has a former paid advisor, your parent, talking about how they consume Mr. Zuckerberg's company. Joe Biden's reelection campaign, the Democratic National Committee is on your platform.
联邦贸易委员会有一名前雇佣的顾问，也就是你的父母，正在讲述他们如何消费扎克伯格的公司。乔·拜登的连任竞选活动以及民主党全国委员会也在你的平台上。
Let me ask you, have you or anyone else at TikTok communicated with or coordinated with the Biden administration, the Biden campaign, or the Democratic National Committee to influence the flow of information on your platform?
让我问你，你或者TikTok的任何其他人员是否与拜登政府、拜登竞选团队或民主党全国委员会进行过沟通或协调，以影响你们平台上信息的流动？
We work with anyone, any creators who want to use our campaign. It's all the same process that we have.
我们与任何希望使用我们的营销活动的创作者合作。我们都有相同的流程。
So what we have here, we have a company that's a tool of the Chinese Communist Party that is poisoning the minds of America's children, in some cases driving them to suicide, and that at best the Biden administration is taking a pass on at worst, maybe in collaboration with.
那么，我们现在面对的是一个由中国共产党操控的公司，他们正在毒害美国孩子们的思想，在某些情况下甚至导致他们自杀。而拜登政府对此要么是选择放任，要么可能还与其合作。
Thank you, Mr. Chu. Thank you, Senator Cotton.
谢谢你，朱先生。感谢你，科顿参议员。
So we're going to take a break now. When the second roll call members can take advantage of, they wish the break will last about 10 minutes. Please do your best to return.
现在我们要休息一下。在第二次点名之后，成员们想要利用这个时间，希望休息大约10分钟。请尽量返回到场。
Yes, Mr. President, I'm going to break you. Are you trying to go through? We're going to do something. I think these guys are also coming this way. Just to avoid that. Excuse us, sorry. Excuse us.
是的，总统先生，我打算打破你。你打算穿过吗？我们要做些事情。我觉得这些人也会朝这边走来。只是为了避免那种情况发生。打扰一下，很抱歉。打扰一下。
What's Washington? Time before the Senate clear it account. Can you just contact me?
华盛顿是什么意思？请在参议院核实账户之前联系我好吗？
Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you so much. Just in wait here. Texting was good. That was fun. Yeah.
谢谢您，总统先生。非常感谢您。只是在这里等一下。发短信很好玩。很有意思。是的。
Senator Judiciary Committee will resume. We have nine senators who have not asked questions yet in seven minute rounds. And we'll turn first to Senator Padilla.
参议院司法委员会将恢复。在每个七分钟回合中，我们还有九位参议员尚未提问问题。我们将首先请帕迪亚参议员发言。
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Callies as we reconvene. I'm proud of once again to share that I am one of the few senators with younger children. And I lead with that because as we are having this conversation today, it's not lost on me that between my children who are all now in a teen and preteen categories. And their friends. I see this issue very up close and personal. And in that spirit, I want to take a second to just acknowledge and thank all the parents who are in the audience today, many of whom have shared their stories with our offices in a credit them for finding strength through their suffering, through their struggle, and challenging that into the advocacy that is making a difference. I thank all of you.
谢谢，主席先生。Callies我们重新开始。我很自豪能再次分享我是为数不多有年幼孩子的参议员之一。我之所以把这个放在前面是因为在我们今天进行这个讨论的时候，我意识到，在我的孩子们以及他们的朋友们中间，我亲眼目睹了这个问题的现实。因此，我想花点时间来感谢在座的所有父母，其中许多人已经与我们的办公室分享了自己的故事。我衷心赞美他们通过遭受和奋斗找到力量，并将这种力量转化为有影响的倡导工作。我感谢你们所有人。
Now I appreciate, again, personally, the challenges that parents and caretakers, school personnel and others face in helping our young people navigate this world of social media and technology in general. Now the services our children are growing up with provide them unrivaled access to information. This is beyond what previous generations have experienced. And that includes learning opportunities, socialization, and much, much more. But we also clearly have a lot of work to do to better protect our children from the predators and predatory behavior that these technologies have enabled. And yes, Mr. Zuckerberg, that includes exacerbating the mental health crisis in America. Nearly all teens, we know, have access to smartphones and the internet and use the internet daily. And while guardians do have primary responsibility for caring for our children, the old ad says it takes a village. And so society as a whole, including leaders in the tech industry, must prioritize the health and safety of our children.
现在我再次个人地认识到父母、照料者、学校人员等所面临的挑战，他们在帮助我们的年轻人在社交媒体和科技普及的世界中导航方面扮演着重要角色。现在我们的孩子正在成长的这些服务为他们提供了无与伦比的信息获取途径，超出了前几代人的经历。这包括学习机会、社交和许多其他方面。但是我们也清楚，我们还有很多工作要做，以更好地保护我们的孩子免受这些技术带来的侵犯和捕食行为。是的，扎克伯格先生，这也包括加剧了美国的心理健康危机。我们知道，几乎所有的青少年都可以使用智能手机和互联网，并且每天都使用互联网。虽然监护人有主要责任照顾我们的孩子，但正如一则古老的广告所说，这需要整个社会的共同努力。因此，包括科技行业领导者在内的整个社会都必须把孩子们的健康和安全放在首位。
Now, dive into my questions now and be specific platform by platform, witness by witness on the topic of some of the parental tools you have each made reference to. Mr. Sethrin, how many minors are on discord and how many of them have caretakers that have adopted your family center tool? And if you don't have the numbers, just say that quickly and provide that to our office. We can follow up with you on that. How have you ensured that young people and their guardians are aware of the tools that you offer?
现在，请就一些你们所提及的家长工具，逐个平台、逐个证人，详细回答我的问题。塞思林先生，Discord上有多少未成年人，他们的监护人有多少人使用了你们的家庭中心工具？如果你没有具体数据，可以简单说明，并将数据提供给我们的办公室。你们如何确保年轻人及其监护人了解你们提供的工具呢？
We make it very clear to use it to teens on our platform what tools are available. That sounds very unique. What specifically do you do, what may be clear to you is not clear to the general public. So what do you do in your opinion to make it very clear? So our teen safety assist, which is a feature that helps teens keep themselves safe in addition to blocking and blurring images that may be sent to them. That is on by default for teen accounts and it cannot be turned off. We also have, we market and to our teen users directly on our platform, we launched our family center. We created promotional video, we put it directly on our product so when every teen opened the app, in fact every user opened the app, they got an alert. Like hey Discord has this, they want you to use it. Thank you, look forward to the data that we're requesting for Mr. Zuckerberg.
我们在我们的平台上向青少年明确说明了有哪些工具可用。听起来非常独特。具体来说，你做了什么，对你来说很清楚的事情对普通大众来说可能并不清楚。那么，在你的意见中，你是怎样做到让事情变得明确的呢？所以我们的青少年安全辅助功能是帮助青少年保持安全的功能，除了可以屏蔽和模糊可能发送给他们的图片之外。对于青少年账户，这是默认开启的，无法关闭。此外，我们还直接向我们的青少年用户进行营销，在我们的平台上推出了家庭中心。我们制作了宣传视频，并直接将它放在我们的产品上，这样每个青少年打开应用程序时，实际上是每个用户打开应用程序时，他们都收到了一个提醒。就像嘿，Discord有这个功能，他们希望你使用它。谢谢，并期待向Zuckerberg先生请求的数据。
Across all of Meta Services from Instagram, Facebook, Messenger and Horizon, how many minors use your applications and of those minors, how many have a caretaker that has adopted the parental supervision tools that you offer? Sorry, I can follow up with the specific stats on that. Okay, it would be very helpful not just for us to know but for you to know as a leader of your company. And how, same question, how are we ensuring that young people and their guardians are aware of the tools that you offer? We run pretty extensive ad campaigns, both on our platforms and outside. We work with creators and organizations like Girl Scouts to make sure that this is broadly, that there's broad awareness of the tools.
在Instagram、Facebook、Messenger和Horizon等Meta服务的所有平台上，有多少未成年人使用您的应用程序？这些未成年人中，有多少有一个已经采用您提供的家长监管工具的监护人？很抱歉，我可以提供具体的统计数据。对您来说，作为公司的领导者，了解这些信息将非常有帮助。同样的问题，我们如何确保年轻人和他们的监护人知晓您提供的工具？我们进行了相当广泛的广告宣传活动，包括在我们的平台内外进行宣传。我们与创作者和组织（例如女童军）合作，以确保这些工具广为人知。
Okay, Mr. Spiegel, how many minors use Snapchat and of those minors, how many have caretakers that are registered with your family center? Center, I believe approximately in the United States, there are approximately 20 million teenage users of Snapchat. I believe approximately 200,000 parents use family center and about 400,000 teens have linked their account to their parents using family center. So 200,000, 400,000 sounds like a big number, but small percentage of the minors using Snapchat. What are your intentions to show that young people and their guardians are aware of the tools you offer? Center, we create a banner for family center on the user's profile so that accounts we believe maybe at the age that they could be parents can see the entry point into family center easily.
好的，Spiegel先生，Snapchat有多少未成年用户？其中有多少未成年用户的监护人在您的家庭中心注册了？在美国，Snapchat大约有2,000万青少年用户。在家庭中心，大约有20万父母使用，大约有40万青少年将他们的账户链接到父母的家庭中心账户上。所以200,000和400,000听起来是个很大的数字，但相对来说，它只是Snapchat未成年用户的一小部分。您有什么意图来让年轻人和他们的监护人意识到您提供的工具呢？在家庭中心，我们在用户的个人资料上放置了家庭中心的横幅，这样我们认为可能是父母的用户可以很容易地进入家庭中心。
Mr. Chu, how many minors are on TikTok and how many of them have a caregiver that uses your family tools? Senator, I need to get back to you on the specific numbers, but we were one of the first platforms to give what we call family pairing to parents. You go to settings, you turn on the QR code, your teenager's QR code, and yours, you scan it. And what it allows you to do is you can set screen time limits, you can filter out some keywords, you can turn on the more restricted mode. And we're always talking to parents. I met a group of parents and teenagers and high school teachers last week to talk about a lot more we can provide in the family pairing mode.
朱先生，TikTok上有多少未成年人，他们中有多少人的监护人使用了您的家庭工具？
议员，我需要回答您关于具体数字的问题，但我们是最早为家长提供所谓的家庭配对功能的平台之一。您可以进入设置，打开您的青少年的二维码和您的二维码，进行扫描。这个功能允许您设置屏幕使用时间限制，过滤一些关键词，并开启更加受限制的模式。我们一直在与家长保持沟通。上周，我与一组家长、青少年和高中教师会面，讨论了在家庭配对模式下我们可以提供的更多功能。
Ms. Jacarena, how many minors use X and are you planning to implement safety measures or guidance for caretakers like your peer companies have? Thank you, Senator. Less than 1% of all U.S. users are between the ages of 13 and 17. Less than 1% of how many? Of 90 million U.S. users. Okay, so still hundreds of thousands continue. Yes, yes, and every single one is very important. Being a 14 month old company, we have re-prioritized child protection and safety measures, and we have just begun to talk about and discuss how we can enhance those with parental controls.
雅卡琳娜女士，有多少未成年人使用X平台，并且您是否计划像同行公司那样实施保障措施或为照顾者提供指导？谢谢，参议员。美国用户中只有不到1%的人年龄在13至17岁之间。不到1%是指多少人？是指9000万美国用户中的多少人。好的，所以仍然有成千上万的未成年人在继续使用。是的，是的，每个人都非常重要。作为一家成立仅14个月的公司，我们已重新优先考虑了儿童保护和安全措施，并且我们刚刚开始讨论和商讨如何通过家长控制来增强这些措施。
Let me continue with the follow-up question for Mr. Citron. In addition to keeping parents informed about the nature of various internet services, there's a lot more we always need to do. For today's purposes, while many companies offer a broad range of user empowerment tools, it's helpful to understand whether young people even find these tools helpful. So, appreciate you sharing your teen safety assist on the tools and how you're advertising it, but have you conducted any assessments of how these teachers are impacting minors' use of your platform? Our intention is to give teens tools capabilities that they can use to keep themselves safe and also so our teams can help keep teens safe. We recently launched teen safety assist last year, and I do not have a study off the top of my head, but we'd be happy to follow up with you on that.
让我继续提问Citron先生的后续问题。除了让家长了解各种互联网服务的性质，我们还需要做很多其他工作。对于今天的目的来说，虽然许多公司提供了各种用户赋权工具，但了解年轻人是否认为这些工具有用是很有帮助的。因此，感谢您分享有关这些工具的青少年安全辅助和您如何进行广告宣传，但您是否对这些工具对未成年人使用您的平台产生的影响进行了任何评估？我们的意图是给青少年提供他们可以使用的工具和功能，以保障他们自身的安全，同时也让我们的团队能够帮助他们保持安全。我们在去年推出了青少年安全辅助功能，我并没有对此有一份研究报告，但我们很乐意与您后续跟进。
Okay, my time is up. I'll have followed questions for each of you either in the second round or through statements for the record on some assessment of the tools that you've proposed. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Senator Priya. Senator Kennedy. Thank you all for being here. Mr. Spiegel. I'll see you hiding down there. What does yada yada yada mean? I'm not familiar with the term, Senator. Very uncool. Can we agree that what you do, not what you say, what you do is what you believe and everything else is just cottage cheese? Yes, Senator. You agree with that? Speak up. Don't be shy. I've listened to you today. I've heard an adi yada yada yada yada yada yada. And I've heard you talk about the reforms you've made. And I appreciate them. And I've heard you talk about the reforms you're going to make. But I don't think you're going to solve the problem. I think Congress is going to have to help you. I think the reforms you're talking about some extent are going to be like putting paint on rotten wood. And I'm not sure you're going to support this legislation. I'm not. The fact is that you and some of your internet colleagues who are not here are no longer, you're not companies, you're countries. You're very, very powerful. And you and some of your colleagues who are not here have blocked everything we have tried to do in terms of reasonable regulation. Everything from privacy to child exploitation. And in fact, we have a new definition of recession. We know we're in a recession when Google has to lay off 25 members of Congress. That's what we're down to. We're also down to this fact that your platforms are hurting children. I'm not saying they're not doing some good things, but they're hurting children. And I know how to count votes. And if this bill comes to the floor of the United States Senate, it will pass. What we're going to have to do, and I say this with all the respect our Ken muster, is convince my good friend Senator Schumer to go to Amazon, buy a spine online and bring this bill to the Senate floor. And the House will then pass it. Now that's one person's opinion. I'm going to be wrong, but I doubt it.
好的，我的时间到了。在第二轮或通过记录的声明中，我会给你们每个人提出一些关于你们提出的工具评估的问题。谢谢，主席。谢谢，普里亚参议员。谢谢你们所有人的到来。斯皮格尔先生，我看到你躲在那里。什么是“yada yada yada”意思？参议员，我不熟悉这个词。非常不酷。我们可以一致认为，你们所做的事情，而不是说的事情，才是你们所相信的，其他一切仅仅是芝士饼干吗？是的，参议员。你同意这个观点吗？大声点说。不要害羞。我今天听了你们的发言。我听到了一大堆废话。我听到了你们谈论过你们做出的改革。我很感激。我也听到了你们谈论你们将要做出的改革。但我不认为你们能解决这个问题。我认为国会需要帮助你们。我认为你们所谈论的改革在某种程度上就像是给烂木头上涂上油漆。我不确定你们会支持这项立法。我不确定。事实上，你和一些不在这里的互联网同行。你们不再只是公司，你们是国家。你们非常非常强大。你和一些不在这里的同事阻止了我们在合理管制方面所做的一切努力。从隐私到儿童剥削，一切都阻挠了。事实上，我们有了衡量经济衰退的新定义。我们知道当谷歌不得不裁员25名国会议员时，我们正处于经济衰退。这就是我们现在的状况。你们的平台也在伤害儿童。我不是说它们没有做一些好事，但它们正在伤害儿童。而我知道如何数票数。如果这项法案提交到美国参议院，它将通过。我们必须做的，我以我所能的尊重说，就是说服我好朋友舒默参议员去亚马逊，在网上购买一枚“脊柱”，并将这项法案带到参议院。然后众议院将通过它。这只是一个人的观点。我可能会错，但我怀疑。
Mr. Zuckerberg, let me ask you a couple of questions. My wax a little philosophical here. I have to hand it to you. You have, you have convinced over 2 billion people to give up all of their personal information. Every bit of it. In exchange for getting to see what their high school friends had for dinner Saturday night. That's pretty much your business model, isn't it? It's not how I would characterize it. And we give people the ability to connect with the people they care about and to engage with the topics that they care about.
马克·扎克伯格先生，我想问您几个问题。我有点想深入思考一下。我必须承认，您成功说服了超过20亿人放弃了他们所有的个人信息，每一点。作为回报，他们可以看到他们高中朋友星期六晚上吃了什么晚餐。这基本上就是您的商业模式，对吗？我认为这并不是我所描述的方式。我们让人们能够与他们关心的人建立联系，并参与他们关心的话题。
And you take this information. This abundance of personal information. And then you develop algorithms to punch people's hot buttons. And send and steer to them information that punches their hot buttons again and again and again to keep them coming back and to keep them staying longer. And as a result, your users see only one side of an issue. And so to some extent your platform has become a killing field for the truth, hasn't it?
你拿到这些信息。这么多的个人信息。然后你开发算法来触动人们敏感的点。然后一遍又一遍地发送和引导信息，不断触动他们敏感的点，让他们一直回来，让他们停留更长时间。结果，你的用户只看到问题的一面。所以可以说，在某种程度上，你的平台已经成为了真相的杀场，对吗？
Senator, I disagree with that characterization. You know, we build ranking and recommendations because people have a lot of friends and a lot of interests and they want to make sure that they see the content that's relevant to them. We're trying to make a product that's useful to people and make our services as helpful as possible for people to connect with the people they care about and the interests they care about.
参议员，我不同意这种描述。你知道，我们建立排名和推荐是因为人们有很多朋友和很多兴趣，他们希望确保看到与自己相关的内容。我们试图制作一个对人们有用的产品，并且使我们的服务尽可能有助于人们与他们关心的人和兴趣进行连接。
But you don't show them both sides. You don't give them balanced information. You just keep punching their hot buttons, punching their hot buttons. You don't show them balanced information so people can discern the truth for themselves. And you rev them up so much that so often your platform and others becomes just cesspools of snark where nobody learns anything, don't they?
但你没有展示给他们双方面。你没有提供平衡的信息。你只是不断地触动他们的敏感点，不断地触动他们的敏感点。你没有展示平衡的信息给他们，让人们能够自行辨别真相。而且你激发他们的情绪如此之高，以至于往往你的平台和其他平台都变成了充满讽刺的污渍之地，没有人能学到任何东西，是吗？
Senator, I disagree with that. I think people can engage in the things that they're interested in and learn quite a bit about those. We have done a handful of different experiments and things in the past around news and trying to show content on a diverse set of perspectives. I think that there's more that needs to be explored there, but I don't think that we can solve that by ourselves.
议员，我不同意你的观点。我认为人们可以参与自己感兴趣的事情，并对它们有很多学习。过去我们进行了一些与新闻有关的不同实验和尝试，试图展示多种观点的内容。我认为还有更多需要探索的地方，但我认为这个问题我们自己无法解决。
Do you think I'm sorry to cut you off, Mr. President, but I'm going to run out of time. Do you think your users really understand what they're giving to you, all their personal information, and how you process it and how you monetize it? Do you think people really understand?
您认为我不好意思打断您，总统先生，但我要用完时间了。您认为您的用户真的明白他们给予您的一切个人信息，以及您是如何处理和商业化它们的吗？您认为人们真的理解吗？
Senator, I think people understand the basic terms. I mean, I think that there's. I actually think that a lot of people have a budget for me. We spent a couple years as we talked about this. Does your user agreement still suck?
参议员，我认为人们都理解基本的条款。我是说，我认为有……实际上，我认为很多人都给我定了预算。我们花了几年的时间来讨论这个问题。你们的用户协议还是糟糕吗？
I'm not sure how to answer that, Senator. Can you still have a dead pot body and all that leave, leave where nobody can find it?
我不确定如何回答这个问题，参议员。你是说一个人被杀害后，尸体被丢弃在无人能找到的地方，然后不留下任何痕迹吗？
Senator, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to, but I think people get the basic deal of using these services. It's a free service. You're using it to connect to the people you care about. If you share something with people, other people will be able to see your information. It's inherently. If you're putting something out there to be shared publicly or with a private set of people, you're inherently putting it out there. So I think people get that basic part of how this is.
参议员，我不太确定您指的是什么，但我认为人们基本上理解如何使用这些服务。这是一个免费的服务。您可以通过它与您关心的人联系。如果您与他人分享了某些内容，其他人就能看到您的信息。这是它的本质。如果您将某些东西公开或仅与一部分人分享，您就是在公开宣布。所以，我认为人们理解这个基本的方面。
Mr. Zuckerberg, you're in the foothills of creepy. You track people who aren't even Facebook users. You track your own people, your own users who are your product, even when they're not on Facebook. I mean, I'm going to land this plane pretty quickly, Mr. Chairman. I mean, it's creepy. And I understand you make a lot of money doing it, but I just wonder if our technology is greater than our humanity. I mean, let me ask you this final question. Instagram is harmful to young people, isn't it?
扎克伯格先生，你已经在进入可怕的阶段了。你追踪那些甚至不是Facebook用户的人。你追踪你自己的人，你的用户，即使他们不在Facebook上。我的意思是，主席先生，我会很快结束这个问题。我是说，这很可怕。我知道你通过这种方式赚了很多钱，但我开始怀疑我们的技术是否超过了我们的人性。那么，最后一个问题，Instagram对年轻人有害，对吗？
Senator, I disagree with that. That's not what the research shows on balance. That doesn't mean that individual people don't have issues and that there aren't things that we need to do to help provide the right tools for people. But across all the research that we've done internally, I mean, this survey that the senator previously cited, there are 12 or 15 different categories of harm that we asked teens if they felt that Instagram at it worse or better. And across all of them, except for the one that Senator Hawley cited, more people said that using Instagram, you've got to land this plane. Mr. Zuckerberg, or positive? Let me, we just have to agree to disagree. If you believe that Instagram, I know it's, I'm not saying it's intentional, but if you agree that Instagram, if you think that Instagram is not hurting millions of our young people, particularly young teens, particularly young women, you shouldn't be driving. It is.
参议员，我不同意这一点。研究结果并不支持这种说法。这并不意味着个体没有问题，也不意味着我们不需要做一些事情为人们提供正确的工具。但是通过我们内部所做的所有研究，包括参议员之前引用的这项调查，我们询问青少年是否觉得在最糟糕的情况下使用Instagram会有12到15个不同的伤害类别。在所有这些类别中，除了Hawley参议员引用的那种情况外，更多的人表示使用Instagram是积极的，你需要结束这个比喻。扎克伯格先生，或者是负面的？让我们就这个问题达成不同意见吧。如果你相信Instagram不会对我们的年轻人，特别是青少年和年轻女性造成伤害，你就不应该驾驶车辆。事实上是会造成伤害的。
Thanks. Senator Butler. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our panelists who've come to have an important conversation with us. Most importantly, I want to appreciate the families who have shown up to continue to be remarkable champions of your children and your loved ones for being here, and in particular to California families, that I was able to just talk to on the break, the families of Sammy Chapman from Los Angeles and Daniel Perta from Santa Clarita. They are here today and are doing some incredible work to not just protect the memory and legacy of their boys, but the work that they're doing is going to protect my nine-year-old. And that is indeed why we're here.
谢谢，巴特勒参议员。谢谢，主席先生，感谢我们的专家小组前来与我们进行重要对话。最重要的是，我要感谢那些出席继续为自己的孩子和亲人勇敢奋斗的家庭，感谢他们的到场。特别要感谢加利福尼亚的家庭，我刚在休息时和洛杉矶的萨米·查普曼和圣塔克拉丽塔的丹尼尔·佩尔塔家庭交谈过。他们今天在这里，正在做一些惊人的工作，不仅是为了保护他们的孩子的记忆和遗产，而且他们所做的工作将保护到我的9岁孩子。这确实是我们在这里的原因。
There are a couple questions that I want to ask some individuals. Let me start with a question for each of you. Mr. Citron, have you ever sat with a family and talked about their experience and what they need from your product? Yes or no? Yes, I have spoken with parents about how we can build tools to help them.
有几个问题我想要向一些人提问。让我先给每个人一个问题。Citron先生，您是否曾经坐下来与一家人谈论过他们的经验以及他们对您产品的需求？是或否？是的，我曾经与父母交谈过，询问他们需要我们如何打造工具来帮助他们。
Mr. Spiegel, have you sat with families and young people to talk about your products and what they need from your product? Yes, Senator.
斯皮格尔先生，您是否与家庭和年轻人坐下来讨论过您的产品以及他们对产品的需求？是的，参议员。
Mr. Shoe? Yes, I just did it two weeks ago, for example. I don't want to know what you did for the hearing prep, Mr. Chiu. I just wanted to know, do you hear anything in terms of designing the product that you are creating?
鞋先生？是的，就拿两周前我刚完成的一个例子来说。我不想知道你为听证会做了什么准备，邱先生。我只是想知道，在你所创造的产品设计方面，你有听到什么吗？
Mr. Zuckerberg, have you sat with parents and young people to talk about how you design product for your consumers? Yes, over the years I've had a lot of conversations with parents. You know that's interesting, Mr. Zuckerberg, because we talked about this last night and you gave me a very different answer. I asked you this very question. Well, I told you that I didn't know what specific processes our company had before answering. No, Mr. Zuckerberg, you said to me that you had not. I must have misspoke. I want to give you the room to misspeak. Miss Zuckerberg, but I asked you this very question. I asked all of you this question and you told me a very different answer when we spoke. But I won't belabor it.
扎克伯格先生，您是否和父母和年轻人坐下来谈过，关于您如何为消费者设计产品？是的，多年来我与父母进行了很多次对话。您知道，这很有趣，扎克伯格先生，因为昨晚我们讨论过这个问题，您给我了一个完全不同的答案。我问过您这个问题。嗯，我告诉您在回答之前，我不知道我们公司具体的流程。不，扎克伯格先生，您对我说您没有这样做过。可能是我说错了。我要给您纠正的机会，扎克伯格先生，但我确实问过您这个问题。我问过所有人这个问题，您和我交谈时给了我一个完全不同的回答。但我不会再详述了。
Can I, a number of you have talked about the, I'm sorry, ex, Miss Jekarino, have you talked to parents directly, young people, about designing your product? As a new leader of ex-the-answers, yes, I've spoken to them about the behavioral patterns because less than 1% of our users are in that age group, but yes, they have spoken to them. Thank you, ma'am.
作为ex-the-answers公司的新领导者，我想问问大家，在设计产品时，我这样一个人，也就是杰卡里诺小姐，您直接和年轻人的家长交谈过吗？是的，我和他们谈过用户行为模式。因为我们的用户中只有不到1%是该年龄段的人群，但是确实有与他们进行过交谈。感谢您！
Mr. Spiegel, there are a number of parents who have children have been able to access illegal drugs on your platform. What do you say to those parents? Senator, we are devastated that we cannot- To the parents. What do you say to those parents, Mr. Spiegel?
斯皮格尔先生，有一些家长反映他们的孩子能够在您的平台上获得非法药物。您对这些家长有什么话说？议员，我们对此深感痛心，我们无法——针对家长，斯皮格尔先生，您对这些家长有什么话要说？
I'm so sorry that we have not been able to prevent these tragedies. We work very hard to block all search terms related to drugs from our platform. We proactively look for and detect drug-related content. We remove it from our platform, preserve it as evidence. And then we refer it to law enforcement for action. We've worked together with nonprofits and with families on education campaigns because the scale of the fentanyl epidemic is extraordinary. Over 100,000 people lost their lives last year and we believe people need to know that one pill can kill. That campaign reached more than 200, was viewed more than 260 million times on Snapchat.
非常抱歉，我们未能阻止这些悲剧的发生。我们努力尽力屏蔽与毒品相关的所有搜索词汇。我们积极主动寻找和检测毒品相关的内容，将其从我们的平台上移除，并保留作为证据。然后，我们将其移交给执法部门进行处理。我们与非盈利组织和家庭一起开展教育活动，因为芬太尼流行的规模异常之大。去年有超过10万人失去了生命，我们认为人们需要知道一颗药丸足以致命。此次活动在Snapchat上观看次数超过2亿6千万次。
Mr. Spiegel, there are two fathers in this room who lost their sons. They're 16 years old. Their children were able to get those pills from Snapchat. I know that there are statistics and I know that there are good efforts. None of those efforts are keeping our kids from getting access to those drugs on your own. Those drugs on your platform. As California Company, all of you, I've talked with you about what it means to be a good neighbor and what California families and American families should be expecting from you. You owe them more than just a set of statistics. And I look forward to you showing up on all pieces of these legislation, all of you, showing up on all pieces of legislation to keep our children safe.
斯皮格尔先生，这个房间里有两个父亲失去了他们的儿子。他们16岁。他们的孩子能够从Snapchat获取那些药物。我知道有统计数据，也知道有一些好的努力。但是，这些努力都没有让我们的孩子无法在你们的平台上获取这些药物。作为加州的一家公司，你们所有人，我曾经和你们谈过作为一个好邻居的含义，加州家庭和美国家庭对你们应该期望的东西。你们欠他们的不仅仅是一套统计数据。我期待着你们在所有这些立法上都积极参与，为了保护我们的孩子的安全。
Mr. Zuckerberg, I want to come back to you. I talked with you about being a parent to a young child who's done have a phone, doesn't, you know, is not on social media at all. And one of the things that I am deeply concerned with as a parent to a young black girl is the utilization of filters on your platform. That would suggest to young girls utilizing your platform the evidence that they are not good enough as they are.
扎克伯格先生，我想向您提出问题。之前我和您谈过，作为一个年幼孩子的家长，他们没有手机，也没有使用社交媒体。作为一个年幼黑人女孩的父母，我非常担心您的平台上滤镜的使用。这些滤镜给年轻女孩传达了一个信息，即她们本来的样子不够好。
I want to ask more specifically and refer to some unredacted court documents that reveal that your own researchers concluded that these face filters, that mimic plastic surgery. Negatively impact youth mental health indeed and will be, why should we believe? Why should we believe that because that you are going to do more to protect young women and young girls when it is that you give them the tools to affirm the self-hate that is spewed across your platforms? Why is it that we should believe that you are committed to doing anything more to keep our children safe? Sorry, there's a lot to unpack there. There is a lot of tools to express themselves in different ways. People use face filters and different tools to make media and photos and videos that are fun or interesting across a lot of the different products that are created. Plastic surgery pins are good tools to express creativity.
我想要更具体地询问，并参考一些未经编辑的法庭文件，这些文件揭示了你们自己的研究人员得出结论：模仿整容手术的这些面部滤镜实际上对青少年的心理健康产生了负面影响。为什么我们应该相信呢？为什么我们应该相信你们会为保护年轻女性和少女而采取更多行动，而你们却给她们工具来肯定自我厌恶问题在你们的平台上堆积如山？为什么我们应该相信你们致力于更多行动来保护我们的孩子的安全？抱歉，这里有很多需要梳理的问题。有很多工具可以以不同方式表达自己。人们使用面部滤镜和其他工具制作有趣或有意思的媒体、照片和视频，在许多不同的产品中都可以找到这种现象。整容操作也是一种表达创造力的好工具。
Senator, I'm not speaking to that. Skin lightning tools are tools to express creativity. This is the direct thing that I'm asking about. I'm not defending any specific one of those. I think that the ability to kind of filter and edit images is generally a useful tool for expression. Specifically, I'm not familiar with the study that you're referring to, but we did make it so that we're not recommending this type of content to team. I may know no reference to a study to court documents that revealed your knowledge of the impact of these types of filters on young people, generally young girls in particular. Senator, I maybe disagree with that characterization. I think that there's sort of been high court documents. I haven't seen any documents. Okay, Mr. Zuckerberg, my time is up. I hope that you hear what is being offered to you and are prepared to step up and do better. I know this Senate committee is going to do our work to hold you in greater account. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
议员，我并不在谈论那个问题。美白工具是一种表达创意的工具。这是我询问的直接问题。我没有为任何特定的工具辩护。我认为能够对图像进行滤镜和编辑是一种通常用于表达的有用工具。具体来说，我并不熟悉您提到的那项研究，但我们确实做到了在我们的团队中不推荐这类内容。我可能对您的描述有不同看法。我认为这些文件在高等法院中应该是有的。我没有见过任何文件。好吧，扎克伯格先生，我的时间用完了。我希望您能听到我们提出的意见，并准备好提升自己并做得更好。我知道这个参议院委员会会尽我们的责任来追究你的责任。谢谢，主席先生。
Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for being here. I don't feel like I'm going to have an opportunity to ask a lot of questions, so I'm going to reserve the right to submit some for the record. But I have heard, we've had hearings like this before. I've been in the Senate for nine years. I've heard hearings like this before. I've heard horrible stories about people who have died, committed suicide, been embarrassed. Every year, we have an annual flogging every year. And what materially has occurred over the last nine years?
蒂利斯参议员。谢谢您，主席先生。谢谢大家出席。我感觉自己可能没有机会问很多问题，所以我将保留提交一些问题的权利。但是，我听过这样的听证会。我在参议院已经待了九年。我听过这样的听证会。我听说过关于人们死亡、自杀、尴尬的可怕故事。每年，我们都会受到审判，每年都会受到一次严厉的批评。然而，在过去的九年里，有哪些实质性的改变发生了呢？
Do any of you all, just yesterday, no question, do any of you all participate in an industry consortium trying to make this fundamentally safe across platforms? Yes or no, Mr. Zuckerberg. Yes. There's a variety of organizations that we work with. Which organization is this? Does anyone here not participate in an industry, I actually think it would be a moral for you all to consider it a strategic advantage to keep profit, something that would secure all these platforms to avoid this sort of, do you all agree with that? That anybody that would be saying you want ours, because ours is the safest and these haven't figured out the secret sauce that you as an industry realize this is an existential threat to you all, we don't get it right, right? I mean, you've got to secure your platforms, you've got to deal with this. Do you not have an inherent mandate to do this? Because it would seem to me if you don't, you're going to cease to exist. I mean, we could regulate you out of business if we wanted to. And the reason I'm saying, it may sound like a criticism, it's not a criticism. I think we have to understand that there should be an inherent motivation for you to get this right. Our Congress will make a decision that could potentially put you out of business.
请问在座的各位，就在昨天，有没有任何人参与到一个产业联盟中，试图使平台在根本上变得更安全？请回答是或否，扎克伯格先生。是的。我们与多个组织合作。这个组织是哪个？在座的有没有任何人没有参与到这样的一个产业联盟中？我实际上认为，将利润作为一种能保护所有这些平台，避免这种情况发生的战略优势，从道德上来说是明智的，你们同意吗？任何一个声称他们的平台是安全的并且其他平台还没有找到成功之道的人，你们同意这对你们来说是一个生存威胁，对吗？也就是说，你们必须确保自己的平台，并应对这个问题。你们难道没有这个天然的义务吗？因为在我看来，如果没有，你们就将不复存在。我是说，如果我们愿意，我们可以通过监管使你们无法经营。我之所以这样说，可能听起来像是在批评，但实际上并不是批评。我认为我们必须认识到，你们应该有自己的内在动力来解决这个问题。我们的国会将做出可能使你们无法继续经营的决定。
Here's the reason I have a concern with that though. I just went on the internet while I was listening intently to all the other members speaking, and I found a dozen different platforms outside the United States, ten of which are in China, two of which are in Russia. They're daily average, active membership numbers in the billions.
然而，我对此持有顾虑的原因在于以下。当我专注地听着其他成员发言时，我上网查询了一下，发现有十几个来自美国以外的平台，其中十个来自中国，两个来自俄罗斯。这些平台每天的活跃会员数量达到了数十亿。
Well, people say you can't get on China's version of TikTok. I took me one quick search on my favorite search engine to find out exactly how I could get an account on this platform today. And so the other thing that we have to keep in mind, I come from technology.
嗯，人们说你无法获得中国版的抖音。我只需要在我最爱的搜索引擎上进行快速搜索，就找到了今天我如何能够在这个平台上注册账号的确切方法。而且我们必须牢记的另一件事是，我来自技术领域。
I could figure out, ladies and gentlemen, I could figure out how to influence your kid without them ever being on a social media platform. I can randomly send text and get a bite and then find out an email address and get compromising information. It is horrible to hear some of these stories that I have shared and I've had these stories occur in my hometown down in North Carolina.
女士们先生们，我可以想出一个办法来影响你们的孩子，而无需他们上社交媒体平台。我可以随机发送短信，引起他们的兴趣，然后找到他们的电子邮件地址，并获取一些有损他们形象的信息。很可怕听到我分享的一些故事，这些故事发生在我位于北卡罗来纳州的家乡。
But if we only come here and make a point today and don't start focusing on making a difference, which requires people to stop shouting and start listening and start passing language here, the bad actors are just going to be off our shores.
但是，如果我们只是来这里，今天表达一下观点，却不开始关注如何产生改变，这要求人们停止喧嚷，开始倾听和传播信息，那么那些不良的行为者仍将泛滥无度，远离我们的海岸。
I have another question for you all. How many people, roughly, if you don't know the exact numbers, roughly, how many people do you have looking 24 hours a day at these horrible images and just go real quick with an answer down the line and filtering? And filtering it out.
我还有一个问题要问大家。如果你不知道具体数字，大概有多少人在全天候观看这些恐怖的图像，并迅速回答一下，然后进行过滤？并且过滤掉它们。
It's most of the 40,000 about people who work on safety.
这里大部分是约40,000名从事安全工作的人们。
And again? We have 2,300 people all over the world.
再来一次？我们在全球有2300人。
Okay. We have 40,000 trust and safety professionals around the world. We have approximately 2,000 people dedicated to trust and safety and content moderation. Our platform is much smaller than these folks. We have hundreds of people and it's looking at the content in 15% of our work. I'm not really mentioning these people have a horrible job. Many of them experience. They have to get counseling for all the things they see. We have evil people out there.
好的。我们在全球拥有40,000名信任与安全专业人员。我们大约有2,000人专门从事信任与安全以及内容审核工作。相比于这些人，我们的平台规模要小得多。我们只有数百人，负责审核15%的内容。我并不是说这些人的工作很糟糕。他们中的许多人经历了很多事情，不得不接受咨询来应对他们所见到的各种事情。世界上有一些邪恶的人存在。
And we're not going to fix this by shouting past our talk and past each other. We're going to fix this by everyone of y'all being at the table and hopefully coming closer to what I heard one person say, supporting a lot of the good bills like one that I hope Senator Blackburn mentions when she gets a chance to talk.
我们不会通过互相大声对峙和互相忽视来解决问题。我们会通过每一个人都参与讨论的方式来解决问题，希望我们能够更接近我听到一个人说的，支持很多好法案的想法，比如我希望布莱克本参议员在她有机会发言的时候提到的那个。
But guys, if you're not at the table and securing these platforms, you're going to be on it. And the reason why I'm not okay with that is that if we ultimately destroy your ability to create value and drive you out of business, the evil people will find another way to get to these children.
但是，伙计们，如果你们不参与并确保这些平台的安全，你们就将成为它们的受害者。我不认可这种情况的原因是，如果我们最终摧毁了你们创造价值和发展业务的能力，邪恶人士将寻找其他途径接触这些孩子。
And I do have to admit, I don't think my mom's watching this one, but there is good. We can't look past good that is occurring. I'm a mom who lives in Nashville, Tennessee, and I talked yesterday and we talked about a Facebook post that she made a couple of days ago. We don't let her talk to anybody else. That connects my 92-year-old mother with her grandchildren and great-grandchildren. That lets a kid who may feel awkward in school to get into a group of people and relate to people. Let's not throw out the good because we haven't all together focused on rooting out the bad.
我得承认，我不认为我妈妈在看这个节目，但是这其中也有好的方面。我们不能忽视正在发生的好事。我是一个住在田纳西州纳什维尔的妈妈，昨天我和她谈了谈她几天前发的一个Facebook帖子。我们不让她和其他人聊天。这个连接了我92岁的母亲和她的孙子辈和曾孙辈。这让一个可能在学校感到尴尬的孩子可以加入一个人群并与人交往。让我们不要因为我们还没有完全关注消除坏事而否定了好的事物。
Now, I guarantee you, I could go through some of your governance documents and find a reason to flag every single one of you because you didn't place the emphasis on it that I think you should. But at the end of the day, I find it hard to believe that any of you people started this business, some of you in your college dorm rooms, for the purposes of creating the evil that is being perpetrated on your platforms. But I hope that every single waking hour, you're doing everything you can to reduce it. You're not going to be able to eliminate it.
现在，我保证你们，我可以从你们的管理文件中找出一条理由，理由是你们没有把我认为应该强调的重点放在上面。但是说到底，我很难相信你们中的任何人创办这个企业，有些人是在你们的大学宿舍里，目的是在你们的平台上制造那种正在发生的邪恶。但是我希望在每一个醒着的时刻，你们都在尽一切努力减少它。你们不可能消除它。
And I hope that there are some enterprising young tech people out there today that are going to go to parents and say, ladies and gentlemen, your children have a deadly weapon. They have a potentially deadly weapon, whether it's a phone or a tablet. You have to secure it. You can't assume that they're going to be honest and say that they're 16 when they're 12. We all have to recognize that we have a responsibility to play, and you guys are at the tip of the spear.
我希望今天有一些有进取心的年轻科技人才能去告诉父母们：女士们先生们，您的孩子手上拥有一把致命的武器。无论是手机还是平板电脑，它们都具备潜在的致命危险。您必须确保其安全。您不能假设他们会诚实地说自己16岁而不是12岁。我们都必须意识到我们有责任发挥作用，而你们正处于最前沿。
So I hope that we can get to a point to where we are moving these bills. If you've got a problem with them, state your problem, let's fix it. No is not an answer. And know that I want the United States to be the beacon for innovation, to be the beacon for safety, and to prevent people from using other options that have existed since the Internet has existed to exploit people. And count me in as somebody that will try and help out. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Senator. Tell us next to Senator Ossoff.
所以我希望我们能够达到一个可以推进这些法案的阶段。如果你对它们有问题，就将问题提出来，让我们来解决。"不"并不是一个答案。而且要知道，我希望美国能成为创新的灯塔，成为安全的灯塔，并阻止人们使用互联网存在的其他选择来剥削他人。请相信我会尽力帮助。谢谢主席，谢谢参议员。接下来是Ossoff参议员。
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses today. Mr. Zuckerberg, I want to begin by just asking a simple question, which is, do you want kids to use your platform more or less?
谢谢您，主席先生，也感谢今天的证人们。扎克伯格先生，我想先问一个简单的问题，您希望孩子们更多还是更少地使用您的平台？
Well, we don't want people under the age of 13 using your platform. Do you want teenagers 13 and up to use your platform more or less? Well, we would like to build a product that is useful and that people want to use. My time is going to be limited, so it's just, do you want them to use it more or less? Teenagers 13 to 17 years old, do you want them using metaproducts more or less? I'd like them to be useful enough that they want to use them more.
我们不希望13岁以下的人使用您的平台。您希望13岁及以上的青少年更多地使用您的平台吗？嗯，我们想要打造一个有用且受人们喜爱的产品。鉴于我的时间有限，所以只是想问一下，您希望他们更多地使用还是更少地使用？对于13至17岁的青少年，您希望他们更多还是更少地使用Meta产品？我希望这些产品能够有足够的吸引力，让他们更愿意使用。
You want them to use it more? I think herein we have one of the fundamental challenges. In fact, you have a fiduciary obligation, do you not, to try to get kids to use your platform more? It depends on how you define that. We obviously are a business. I'm sorry, Mr. Zuckerberg, just our time is not, it's self-evident that you have a fiduciary obligation to get your users, including users under 18 to use and engage with your platform more rather than less, correct? Over the long term, but in the near term we often take a lot of steps, including we made a change to show less videos on the platform that reduced amount of time by more than 50 million hours.
你希望他们更多地使用吗？我认为这是其中一个根本性挑战。实际上，你有义务努力让孩子们更多地使用你的平台，是不是这样？这要看你如何定义。显然，我们是一个商业公司。对不起，扎克伯格先生，我们的时间有限，很明显你有义务确保用户，包括18岁以下的用户更多地使用和参与你的平台，而不是更少，对吗？从长远来看是这样，但在短期内，我们常常采取许多措施，包括减少平台上视频的数量，从而减少了超过5000万小时的观看时间。
Okay, but if your shareholders ask you, Mark, I wouldn't, Mr. Zuckerberg here, but your shareholders might be on a first-name basis with you, Mark, are you trying to get kids to use metaproducts more or less? You'd say more, right? Well, I would say that over the long term we're trying to create the most of the time. Yeah, I mean, let's look, so the 10K you file with the SEC, a few things I want to note, here are some quotes, and this is a filing that you signed, correct? Yes. Yeah. Our financial performance has been and will continue to be significantly determined by our success in adding, retaining, and engaging active users.
好的，但是如果你的股东问你，马克，我的意思不是像扎克伯格先生这样称呼你，但是你的股东可能与你亲密到可以直呼其名的程度，你是想让孩子们更多地使用元产品还是更少呢？你会说更多对吧？嗯，我会说从长远来看，我们正在努力创造更多的时间。是的，我的意思是，让我们来看看你向SEC提交的10K文件，有几点我想注意一下，这是你签署的文件，对吗？是的，对。好的。我们的财务表现在很大程度上取决于我们能否成功增加、留住和吸引活跃用户。
Here's another quote. If our users decrease their level of engagement with our products, our revenue, financial results, and business may be significantly harmed. Here's another quote. We believe that some users, particularly younger users, are aware of and actively engaging with other products and services, similar to as a substitute for ours. It continues in the event that users increasingly engage with other products and services, we may experience a decline in use and engagement in key demographics or more broadly, in which case our business would likely be harmed.
以下是另一个引文。如果我们的用户减少对我们产品的参与度，我们的收入、财务业绩和业务可能会受到重大损害。以下是另一个引文。我们相信一些用户，尤其是年轻用户，已经意识到并积极参与其他类似的产品和服务，作为对我们产品的替代。如果用户越来越多地与其他产品和服务进行互动，我们可能会在关键人口群体或更广泛范围内经历使用和参与度的下降，此情况下我们的业务可能会受到损害。
You have an obligation, as the chief executive, to encourage your team to get kids to use your platform more. Senator, I think this is. Is that not self-evident? You have a fiduciary obligation to your shareholders to get kids to use your platform more.
作为首席执行官，您有义务鼓励您的团队让孩子们更多地使用您的平台。议员，我认为这是显而易见的。难道这不是您作为受委托人的责任，要让股东们更多地增加孩子们对您平台的使用吗？
I think that the thing that's not intuitive is the direction is to make the products more useful, so that way people want to use them more. We don't give our. the team is running the Instagram feed or the Facebook feed a goal to increase the amount of time that people spend. Yeah, but you don't dispute. And your 10K makes clear you want your users engaging more and using more the platform.
我认为不直观的是，我们要朝着使产品更有用的方向发展，这样人们就更愿意使用它们。我们没有给我们的团队制定一个目标，即增加人们使用Instagram或Facebook花费的时间。是的，但你并不否认。而你的10K清楚地表明你希望用户更多地参与并更多地使用这个平台。
And I think this gets to the root of the challenge because it's the overwhelming view of the public, certainly in my home state of Georgia. And we've had some discussions about the underlying science that this platform is harmful for children. I mean, you are familiar with. and not just your platform, by the way, social media in general. 2023 report from the Surgeon General about the impact of social media on kids' mental health, which cited evidence that kids who spend more than three hours a day on social media have double the risk of poor mental health outcomes, including depression and anxiety. Are you familiar with that Surgeon General report in the underlying study? I read the report, yes.
我认为这就是这个挑战的根源，因为这是公众的压倒性观点，尤其是在我在佐治亚州的家乡。我们已经就这个平台对孩子的危害进行了一些讨论，我想你已经了解了，不仅仅是你的平台，普遍的社交媒体也是如此。根据2023年外科医生总统的报告，社交媒体对孩子们的心理健康有影响，其中列举了一些证据，表明每天在社交媒体上花费超过三个小时的孩子，患有抑郁和焦虑等心理健康问题的风险翻倍。你是否了解该外科医生总统的报告和相关研究？我读过那份报告，是的。
Do you dispute it? No, but I think it's important to characterize it correctly. I think what he was flagging in the report is that there seems to be a correlation. And obviously the mental health issue is very important, so it's something that needs to be studied further. Yeah, we know. The thing is, that's. everyone knows there's a correlation. Everyone knows that kids who spend a lot of time, too much time on your platforms, are at risk. And it's not just the mental health issues. I mean, let me ask you no question. Is your platform safe for kids? I believe it is.
你对此提出异议吗？不，但我认为准确地描述它很重要。我认为他在报告中指出的是存在相关性。显然，心理健康问题非常重要，所以这需要进一步研究。是的，我们知道。问题是，每个人都知道存在相关性。每个人都知道那些花太多时间在你们平台上的孩子处于风险之中。而且不仅仅是心理健康问题。我的意思是，让我问你一个问题。你们的平台对孩子来说安全吗？我相信是的。
But there's a. The difference between correlation and causation? Because we're not going to be able to get anywhere. We want to work in a productive, open, honest, and collaborative way with the private sector to pass legislation that will protect Americans, that will protect American children above all, and that will allow businesses to thrive in this country. We don't start with an open, honest, candid, realistic assessment of the issues. We can't do that. The first point is you want kids to use the platform more.
但是有一个问题。相关性和因果关系之间有什么区别？因为我们不会有任何进展。我们希望与私营部门以一种富有成效、开放、诚实和合作的方式合作，通过立法保护美国人，尤其是保护美国儿童，并让企业在这个国家茁壮发展。如果我们不先对问题进行公正、坦率、真实的评估，我们无法做到这一点。首要问题是您希望孩子们更多地使用这个平台。
In fact, you have an obligation to. But if you're not willing to acknowledge that it's a dangerous place for children, the Internet is a dangerous place for children.
Not just your platform, isn't it? Isn't the Internet a dangerous place for children? I think it can be. Yeah, there's both great things that people can do, and there are harms that we need to work together.
Yeah, it's a dangerous place for children. There are families here who have lost their children. There are families across the country whose children have engaged in self-harm, who have experienced low self-esteem, who have been sold deadly pills on the Internet. The Internet is a dangerous place for children, and your platforms are dangerous places for children. Do you agree? I think that there are harms that we need to work together.
I'm not going to, I think overall there is. Why not? Why not? Why not just acknowledge it? Why do we have to do the very careful question? I disagree with the characterisation that you have. Which character that the Internet is a dangerous place for children? I think you're trying to characterize our products as inherently dangerous, and I think that for sure.
Inherent or not, your products are places where children can experience harm. They can experience harm to their mental health. They can be sold drugs. They can be preyed upon by predators. They're dangerous places. And yet, you have an obligation to promote the use of these platforms by children.
All I'm trying to suggest to you, Mr. Zuckerberg, my time is running short. Is that in order for you to succeed, you and your colleagues here, we have to acknowledge these basic truths. We have to be able to come before the American people, the American public, the people in my state of Georgia, and acknowledge the Internet is dangerous. Including your platforms. There are predators lurking. There are drugs being sold. There are harms to mental health that are taking a huge toll on kids' quality of life. And yet, you have this incentive, not just you, Mr. Zuckerberg. All of you have an incentive to boost, maximize use, utilization and engagement. And that is where public policy has to step in to make sure that these platforms are safe for kids. People are not dying, so kids are not overdosing, so kids are not cutting themselves or killing themselves because they're spending all day scrolling instead of playing outside. And I appreciate all of you for your testimony. We will continue to engage as we develop this legislation. Thank you.
事实上，您有义务这样做。但是如果您不愿意承认互联网对儿童来说是一个危险的地方，那么互联网对儿童来说是一个危险的地方。
不仅仅是您的平台，对吗？互联网对儿童来说是一个危险的地方，我认为是可以的。是的，人们可以做很多好事，但我们也需要共同努力应对这种危害。
是的，这对儿童来说是一个危险的地方。这里有家庭失去了他们的孩子。全国各地的家庭中有孩子自残，经历低自尊，被互联网上出售的致命药物危害。互联网对儿童来说是一个危险的地方，而您的平台也是危险的地方。您同意吗？我认为我们需要共同努力应对这些危害。
我不会这么认为，我认为总体上是。为什么不呢？为什么不承认呢？为什么我们必须问这个非常谨慎的问题呢？我不同意您的观点。关于互联网对儿童来说是一个危险的地方？我认为您试图将我们的产品描述为本质上危险的，我完全不同意。
不管是与否，您的产品是孩子们可能遭受伤害的地方。他们可能会对心理健康造成伤害。他们可能会被贩毒者唆使。他们是危险之地。然而，您有义务促进孩子使用这些平台。
我只是想向您建议，扎克伯格先生，我时间不多了。为了你们的成功，你和你的同事们必须承认这些基本事实。我们必须能够站在美国人民，美国公众，以及我所在的乔治亚州的人民面前，承认互联网是危险的。包括您的平台。有捕食者在潜伏。有毒品在销售。对心理健康造成的伤害严重影响着孩子的生活质量。然而，您们都有激励机制，不仅仅是你，扎克伯格先生。您所有人都有激励去提高、最大限度地利用和参与度。公共政策必须介入，确保这些平台对孩子们来说是安全的。人们不会因为整天滚动屏幕而死亡，孩子们不会因为整天滚动屏幕而过量服药、自残或自杀而丧命，而不去玩耍。感谢您的证词。我们将在制定这项立法时继续参与讨论。谢谢。
Senator from Tennessee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you for each of you for coming. And I know some of you had to be subpoenaed to get here. But we do appreciate that you all are here.
田纳西州的参议员。谢谢，主席先生。
非常感谢大家的光临。我知道有些人可能是被传唤来的。但我们非常感激大家的到场。
Mr. Chu, I want to come to you first. We've heard that you're looking at putting a headquarters in Nashville. And likewise in Silicon Valley and Seattle. And what you're going to find probably is that the welcome mat is not going to be rolled out for you in Nashville. Like it would be in California. There are a lot of people in Tennessee that are very concerned about the way TikTok is basically building dossier's on our kids. The way they are building those on their virtual you. And also that that information is held in China in Beijing as you responded to Senator Blumenthal and I last year in reference to that question. And we also know that a major music label yesterday said they were pulling all of their content off your site. Because of your issues on payment on artificial intelligence and because of the negative impact on our kids mental health. So we will see how that progresses.
朱先生，我想首先来找你。我们听说你们正在考虑在纳什维尔、硅谷和西雅图建立总部。但你会发现，在纳什维尔，你可能不会受到像加利福尼亚那样的热情欢迎。田纳西州有很多人非常担心TikTok在基本上搜集我们孩子的档案。以及他们在虚拟世界中建立档案的方式。以及这些信息是由你们在中国的北京保存，正如你去年回应参议员布卢门撒尔和我提出的那个问题。我们也知道，昨天有一家重要的音乐唱片公司宣布他们将撤下你们网站上的全部内容，原因是你们在支付和人工智能方面的问题以及对我们孩子心理健康的负面影响。所以我们将看这个情况如何发展。
Mr. Zuckerberg, I want to come to you. We have just had Senator Blumenthal and I of course have had some internal documents and emails that have come our way. One of the things that really concerned me is that you referred to your young users in terms of their lifetime value of being roughly $270 per teenager. And each of you should be looking at these kids. Their T-shirts they're wearing today say I'm worth more than $270. We've got some standing up in those T-shirts. Now, and some of the children from our state, some of the children, the parents that we have worked with. Just to think whether it is Becca Schmidt, David Malak, Sarah Flatt, Ann Lee Shout. Would you say that life is only worth $270? What could possibly lead you? I mean, I listened to that. I know you're a dad. I'm a mom. I'm a grandmom. And how could you possibly even have that thought? It is astounding to me. And I think this is one of the reasons that states, 42 states are now suing you because of features that they consider to be addictive that you are pushing forward. And in the emails that we've got from 2021 that go from August to November, there is the staff plan that is being discussed. In Antigone Davis, Nick Clegg, Sheryl Sandberg, Chris Cox, Alec Schulz, Adam Messery are all on this chain of emails on the well-being plan. And then we get to one, Nick did email Mark for emphasis to emphasize his support for the package, but it sounds like it lost out to various other pressures and priorities. See, this is what bothers us. Children are not your priority. Children are your product. Children, you see as a way to make money. And children protecting children in this virtual space, you made a conscious decision. Even though Nick Clegg and others were going through the process of saying, this is what we do. These documents are really illuminating. And it just shows me that growing this business, expanding your revenue, what you were going to put on those quarterly filings, that was the priority. And the other thing that I want to talk about is the children were not. It's very clear.
扎克伯格先生，我想与您交谈。我们刚刚和布卢门撒尔参议员谈过，当然我也拿到了一些内部文件和邮件。其中一件事真的让我很担心，就是您把年轻用户的生命周期价值估计为大约每位青少年270美元。而你们每个人都应该关注这些孩子。他们今天穿的T恤上写着“我值得超过270美元”。我们有一些穿着这种T恤的孩子。现在，我们跟我们州的一些孩子、我们工作过的家长沟通过。你能说生命只值270美元吗？你可能怎么会有这种想法呢？对我来说，这真是令人震惊。我想这也是42个州现在起诉您的原因之一，因为他们认为您在推动的一些功能上有成瘾性。而从我们在2021年收到的邮件来看，从8月到11月，你们正在讨论一个员工计划。Antigone Davis、Nick Clegg、Sheryl Sandberg、Chris Cox、Alec Schulz、Adam Messery都在与福祉计划相关的邮件链上。然后我们看到一封邮件，Nick给Mark发了邮件强调了他对该计划的支持，但似乎输给了其他各种压力和优先事项。你看，这就是我们所担心的。孩子们不是你们的优先考虑对象，他们是你们的产品。你把孩子当作赚钱的手段。在这个虚拟空间保护孩子，你们做出了一个有意识的决定。尽管Nick Clegg和其他人正在进行这个过程，正在说我们应该做什么。这些文件真的很有启示性。这些文件向我展示了，让业务增长，扩大收入，是你们的首要任务。而孩子们则不是。这一点非常明显。
I want to talk with you about the pedophile ring because that came up earlier. And the Wall Street Journal reported on that. And one of the things that we found out was after that became evident, then you didn't take that content down. And you didn't take it down because it didn't violate your community standards. Do you know how often a child is bought or sold for sex in this country? Every two minutes, every two minutes, a child is bought or sold for sex. That's not my stat. That is a TBI stat. Now, finally, this content was taken down after a congressional staff or went to Meta's global head of safety. So would you please explain to me and to all these parents why explicit predatory content does not violate your platforms, terms of service, or your community standards?
我想和你谈谈有关恋童癖的问题，因为这个问题之前已经提出过了。《华尔街日报》也报道了这个问题。我们发现的一件事是，在明确出现这种情况后，你们并没有将这些内容删除。而且你们没有删除这些内容，是因为这并没有违反你们的社区标准。你知道在这个国家每隔多久就有一个孩子被买卖以进行性行为吗？每两分钟，每两分钟，就有一个孩子被买卖以进行性行为。这不是我自己的统计数据，而是TBI发布的统计数据。现在终于有人去找到Meta的全球安全负责人之后，这些内容才被删除了。那么，请你向我和所有家长解释一下，为什么明显的具有猎物性质的内容不违反你们的平台服务条款或社区标准？
Sure, so let me try to address all of the things that you just said. It does violate our standards. We work very hard to take it down. We've reported, I think it's more than 26 million examples of this kind of content. Didn't take it down until a congressional staffer brought it up. It may be that in this case we made a mistake and missed something. I think you make a lot of mistakes. So let's move on.
好的，让我试着回答你刚刚说的所有事情。这确实违反了我们的标准。我们非常努力地将其下架。我们已经举报了超过2600万个这类内容的例子。直到一位国会助手提出来之前，我们才将其下架。可能在这种情况下，我们犯了一个错误，漏掉了某些内容。我认为你经常犯很多错误。所以让我们继续下去吧。
I want to talk with you about your Instagram creators program and about the push we found out through these documents that you actually are pushing forward because you want to bring kids in early. You see these younger teenagers as valuable but an untapped audience quoting from the emails and suggesting teams are actually household influencers to bring their younger siblings into your platform, into Instagram. Now, how can you ensure that Instagram creators, your product, your program does not facilitate illegal activities when you fail to remove content pertaining to the sale of minors? And it is happening once every two minutes in this country.
我想和你谈谈关于你们的Instagram创作者计划，以及通过这些文件我们发现的你们正在推动的行动，因为你们希望尽早吸引孩子们。你们认为这些年轻的青少年是有价值的，但却是一个未被开发利用的观众群体，引用了邮件中的话，并且建议团队实际上是家庭影响者，带着他们的年幼兄弟姐妹进入你们的平台，进入Instagram。那么，当你们未能删除涉及未成年人交易的内容时，你们如何确保Instagram创作者，你们的产品和计划不会促成非法活动呢？而这种情况在这个国家每两分钟就发生一次。
Senator, are tools for identifying that kind of content or industry leading? That doesn't mean we're perfect. There are definitely issues that we have. But we continue this. Yes, there are a lot that is slipping through. It appears that you're trying to be the premier sex trafficking site. Of course not, Senator. That's ridiculous. No, it is not ridiculous. Of course we don't want this. We don't want this content on our platforms. Why don't you take it down? We do take it down. We do more work to take it down than they've been. No, you're not. You are not.
参议员，用来识别那种内容或行业领先的工具是有效的吗？这并不意味着我们是完美的。我们确实存在问题。但我们在不断改进。是的，有很多内容未能及时删除。看起来你们似乎在试图成为主要的性贩卖网站。当然不是，参议员。那太荒谬了。不，这并不荒谬。当然我们不希望这种内容出现在我们的平台上。那你们为什么不把它删掉呢？我们确实在删除它们。我们做了更多的工作来删除它们。不，你们没有。你们并没有。
And the problem is we've been working on this. Senator Welch is over there. We've been working on this stuff for a decade. You have an army of lawyers and lobbyists that have fought us on this every step of the way. You work with net choice, the Cato Institute, taxpayers protection alliance and chamber of progress to actually fight our bipartisan legislation to keep kids safe online. So are you going to stop funding these groups? Are you going to stop lobbying against this and come to the table and work with us? Yes or no? Senator, we have a. Yes or no? Of course we'll work with you on the legislation. Okay. The door is open. We've got all these bills. You need to come to the table. Each and every one of you need to come to the table. And you need to work with us. Kids are dying.
问题是，我们一直在为此努力。威尔奇参议员就在那边。我们已经针对这个问题工作了十年。你们有一支由律师和游说者组成的军队，他们在这一路上一直与我们对抗。你们与网络选择组织、卡托研究所、纳税人保护联盟和进步商会合作，实际上是在反对我们的跨党派立法，以保护孩子在网上的安全。那么，你们会停止资助这些团体吗？你们会停止反对这个提案，并和我们合作吗？是还是不是？参议员，我们有一个是的还是不是？当然，我们会与你们合作制定法律。好吧，大门敞开着。我们有这么多法案。你们每个人都需要走到谈判桌前。你们需要与我们合作。孩子们正在死去。
Senator Welch? I'm going to thank my colleague, Senator Blackburn, for a decade of work on this. I actually have some optimism. There is a consensus today that didn't exist, say, ten years ago, that there is a profound threat to children, to mental health, to safety. There's not a dispute. That was in debate before. That's a starting point. Secondly, we're identifying concrete things that can be done in four different areas. One is industry standards. Two is legislation. Three are the courts. And then four is a proposal that Senator Bennett, Senator Graham, myself and Senator Warren have to establish an agency, a governmental agency whose responsibility would be to engage in this on a systematic, regular basis with proper resources. And I just want to go through those.
韦尔奇参议员？我要向我的同事、布莱克本参议员，感谢她在这个问题上十年来的工作。我实际上对此有一些乐观的态度。现在有一个共识，而十年前则不存在，即对儿童、心理健康和安全存在严重威胁。这不再是有争议的问题了。曾经有人对此进行辩论，而现在我们则有了一个出发点。其次，我们正在确定能够在四个不同领域采取的具体行动。首先是行业标准。第二是立法。第三是法院。然后第四，是参议员贝内特、格雷厄姆、我自己以及参议员沃伦提出的一个建立政府机构的提案，该机构的责任将是定期、系统地从事这一问题，并提供适当的资源。我只是想逐一说明这些行动。
I appreciate the industry standard decisions and steps that you've taken in your companies. But it's not enough. And that's what I think you're hearing from my colleagues. Like, for instance, where there are layoffs in it is in the trusted, the trust and verify programs. That's alarming because it looks like there is a reduction in emphasis on protecting things. Like, you just added the, you know, 100 employees in Texas in this category. And how many did you have before? The company is just coming through a significant restructuring. So we've increased the number of trust and safety employees and agents all over the world by at least 10% so far. And so far in the last 14 months, and we will continue to do so specifically in Austin, Texas.
我对你们公司采取的行业标准决策和步骤表示赞赏。但这还不够。我认为我的同事们也有同样的看法。比如，在在信任和验证计划中出现裁员是令人担忧的，因为这似乎减少了对保护事物的重视。比如，你刚刚在德克萨斯州增加了100名员工，以前有多少员工？公司正在经历一次重大重组。所以我们已经在全球范围内至少增加了10%的信任与安全员工和代理商。在过去的14个月里已经如此，并且我们将继续在德克萨斯州奥斯汀继续增加。
All right, Mr. Zuckerberg, my understanding is there have been layoffs in that area as well. There's added jobs there at Twitter, but it matter. Have there been reductions in that? There have been across the board not really focused on that area. I think our investment is relatively consistent over the last couple of years. We invested almost $5 billion in this work last year, and I think this year will be on the same order of magnitude.
好的，扎克伯格先生，我的理解是该领域也有裁员情况。Twitter在那个领域增加了一些工作岗位，但这并不重要。那个领域有没有减少人员？我们在全面进行裁员，没有特别集中在那个领域。我认为我们在过去几年中的投资相对稳定。去年，我们在这项工作上投资了近50亿美元，并且我认为今年的投资规模将相似。
All right, and another question that's come up is when to the horror of a user of any of your platforms, somebody has an image on there that's very compromising, often of a sexual nature. Is there any reason in the world why a person who wants to take that down can't have a very simple same day response to have it taken down?
好的，另一个提出的问题是，当任何您所拥有的平台的用户发现在那里有非常具有妨害性质（往往是性相关的）的图片时，有没有任何理由让想要删除该图片的人无法在同一天内获得简便的回应并将其删除？
I'll start with Twitter. I'm sorry, Senator. I was taking notes. Could you repeat the question?
我会从Twitter开始。对不起，参议员。我在做笔记。您能再重复一遍问题吗？
Well, there's a lot of examples of a young person finding out about an image that is of them and really compromises them and actually can create suicidal thoughts, and they want to call up or they want to send an email and say, take it down.
好的，有很多例子是关于年轻人发现了一张关于自己的照片，它会给自己的形象带来很大的损害，甚至可能导致出现自杀念头。他们想要打电话或发送邮件，请求对方删除这张照片。
I mean, why is it not possible for that to be responded to immediately?
我的意思是，为什么不可能立即得到回应呢？
We all strive to take down any type of a violative content or disturbing content immediately. At X we have increased our capabilities with a two-step reporting process.
我们所有人都努力立即删除任何违规或令人困扰的内容。在X公司，我们通过双重举报程序来增强我们的能力。
If I'm a parent or I'm a kid and I want this down, shouldn't there be methods in place where it comes down?
如果我是一个父母或者孩子，并且我想要这个东西下架，难道就不应该有相应的措施来让它下架吗？
You see what the image is? Yes. And me, ecosystem-wide standard would improve and actually enhance the experience for users at all our platforms.
你看到图片了吗？是的。而且，从整个生态系统的角度来看，统一的标准将改进并实际增强我们在所有平台上为用户带来的体验。
There actually is an organization that I think a number of the companies up here are a part of called Take It Down. It's some technology that we and a few others build that basically. You all are in favor of that. This is going to give some peace of mind to the people. It really, really matters.
实际上，我认为这里有一家组织，很多公司都加入了，叫做"Take It Down"。我们和其他几家公司研发了一项技术，这项技术可以为大家提供一些安心感。这对人们来说真的非常重要。
I don't have that much time. So we've talked about the legislation and Senator Whitehouse had asked you to get back with your position on Section 230, which I'll go to in a minute. But I would welcome each of you responding as to your company's position on the bills that are under consideration in this hearing. All right? I'm just asking you to do that.
我没有那么多时间。所以我们已经谈论了立法问题，Senator Whitehouse请你在Section 230上回复你的立场，我等一下会提到。但是我希望你们每个人都能对正在审议的法案表达你们公司的立场。好吗？我只是要求你们这样做。
Third, the Court, this big question of Section 230. And today, I'm pretty inspired by the presence of the parents who have turned their extraordinary grief into action and hope that other parents may not have to suffer. What for them is a devastating for everyone, a devastating loss.
第三，关于第230条，法院面临着一个重要的问题。今天，我对那些将无比的悲痛转化为行动和希望的家长们深感鼓舞，他们希望其他的家长们不再遭受同样的痛苦。对他们来说，这是一次毁灭性的损失，对每个人来说都是。
Senator Whitehouse asked you all to get back very concretely about Section 230 and your position on that. But it's an astonishing benefit that your industry has, that no other industry has. They just don't have to worry about being held accountable in court if they're negligent.
参议员怀特豪斯要求你们确切地回答关于第230条款以及你们对此的立场。但是你们所在的行业拥有一种令人惊讶的好处，其他行业都没有。他们不必担心因疏忽而被法院追究责任。
So you've got some explaining to do, and I'm just reinforcing Senator Whitehouse's request that you get back specifically about that. And then finally, I want to ask about this notion. It's this idea of a federal agency who's resourced and whose job is to be dealing with public interest matters that are really affected by big tech.
所以你有一些需要解释的事情，我只是加强了Whitehouse参议员的要求，希望你能具体回答那个问题。最后，我想问一下这个概念。它是指一个被提供资源并专门处理受大型科技公司影响的公共利益事务的联邦机构。
It's extraordinary what has happened in our economy with technology, and your companies represent innovation and success. But just as when the railroads were ascendant and were in charge and ripping off farmers because of practices, they were able to get away with.
我们的经济正经历着科技所带来的非凡变革，而贵公司代表着创新和成功。然而，就像铁路业初兴时因采取了一些剥削农民的做法而得以逍遥法外一样，当前情况也一样。
Just as when Wall Street was flying high, but there was no unregulating blue sky laws, we now have a whole new world in the economy.
就像当华尔街飞黄腾达时，却没有解除蓝天法规一样，如今我们在经济中也迎来了一个全新的世界。
And Mr. Zuckerberg, I remember you testifying in the Energy and Commerce Committee, and I asked you your position on the concept of a federal regulatory agency. My recollection is that you were positive about that. Is that still the case?
扎克伯格先生，我还记得您在能源和商业委员会作证时，我问过您对设立联邦监管机构的概念持什么态度。我记得您当时对此表示了积极的看法，现在还是这样吗？
I think it could be a reasonable solution. There are obviously pros and cons to doing that versus through the normal, the current structure of having different regulatory agencies focused on specific issues. But because a lot of the things trade off against each other, one of the topics that we talked about today is encryption, and that's obviously really important for privacy and security. Can we just go down the line?
我认为这可能是一个合理的解决方案。通过这种方式与目前的不同监管机构侧重于特定问题的结构相比，显然有利有弊。但由于许多事物互相权衡，我们今天讨论的一个主题是加密，这显然对隐私和安全非常重要。我们可以按顺序依次谈谈吗？
I'm at the end. Thank you.
我走到了尽头。谢谢您。
Senator, I think the industry initiative to keep those conversations going would be something X would be very, very proactive about. If you think about our support of the report act, the SHIELD Act, the Stop CSAM Act, our support of the Project Safe Child today. I think our intentions are clear to participate in the trade here. Senator, we support national privacy legislation, for example, so that sounds like a good idea. We just need to understand what it means.
参议员，我认为行业发起的保持这些对话进行下去的倡议是X公司非常非常积极参与的事情。如果您考虑一下我们对报告法案、SHIELD法案、Stop CSAM法案以及今天对Project Safe Child的支持，我认为我们的意图是明确参与这个行业的。参议员，例如，我们支持国家隐私立法，这听起来是个好主意。我们只需要了解一下它意味着什么。
All right. Mr. Spiegel?
好的。史皮格尔先生吗？
Senator, we'll continue to work with your team, and we'd certainly be open to exploring the right regulatory body for big technology. But the idea of a regulatory body is something that you can see has merit.
参议员，我们将继续与您的团队合作，并且我们愿意探讨针对大型科技公司的适当监管机构。但是监管机构的想法确实具有一定的价值。
Yes, Senator. Mr. Sifrin.
是的，参议员先生。西弗林先生。
We're very open to working with you and our peers and anybody on helping make the Internet a safer place. I think you mentioned this is not a one-platform problem, so we do look to collaborate with other companies and with nonprofits in the government.
我们非常乐意与您、我们的同行以及任何人合作，共同努力使互联网更加安全。我认为你提到了这不是一个单一平台的问题，所以我们确实希望与其他公司和政府非营利组织合作。
Thank you all. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you, Senator Welch.
非常感谢大家。主席先生，我让步了。谢谢您，韦尔奇参议员。
We're going to conclude this hearing, and thank you all for coming today. You probably have your scorecard out there. You've met at least 20 members of this committee and have your own impressions of their questioning and approach and the like. But the one thing I want to make clear as Chairman of this committee for the last three years is this was an extraordinary vote on an extraordinary issue a year ago. We passed five bills unanimously in this committee. You heard all the senators. Every spot on the political spectrum was covered. Every single senator voted unanimously in favor of the five pieces of legislation we've discussed today. It ought to tell everyone who follows Capitol Hill in Washington a pretty stark message. We get it. And we live it. As parents and grandparents, we know what our daughters and sons and others are going through. They cannot cope. They cannot handle this issue on their own. They're counting on us as much as they're counting on the industry to do the responsible thing.
我们即将结束今天的听证会，非常感谢大家的出席。你们可能已经拿出你们的评分卡了。你们至少见过这个委员会的20位成员，并对他们的提问和做法有了自己的印象。但作为这个委员会的主席，过去三年间我要强调的一点是，一年前关于一项特殊问题的投票是非同寻常的。我们在这个委员会通过了五项法案，全体一致同意。你们听到了所有参议员的发言。每个政治派别的立场都得到了覆盖。每一位参议员都一致投票支持我们今天讨论的这五项立法。这应该向每一个关注华盛顿国会山的人传递一个非常明确的信息。我们明白了。我们身体力行。作为父母和祖父母，我们知道我们的女儿、儿子和其他人经历了什么。他们无法处理这个问题。他们无法独自应对。他们非常依赖我们和整个行业能够承担起责任。
And some will leave with impressions of our witnesses and the companies they represent that you're right as an American citizen. But you want to also leave with the determination to keep the spotlight on us to do something, not just to hold a hearing, bring out a good strong crowd of supporters for change, but to get something done. No excuses. No excuses. We've got to bring this to a vote. What I found in my time in the House and the Senate is that's the moment of reckoning. Speeches notwithstanding press releases and the like. The moment of reckoning is when we call a vote on these measures. It's time to do that. I don't believe there's ever been a moment in America's wonderful history where the business or industry has stepped up and said regulate us, put some legal limits on us. And businesses exist by and large to be profitable. And I think that we got to get behind that and say profitability at what cost. Senator Kennedy, Republican colleagues said, is our technology greater than our humanity? I think that is a fundamental question that he asked. When I would add to it, or our politics greater than technology, we're going to find out.
有些人将离开的时候对我们的证人和他们所代表的公司有着正面的印象，认为你作为美国公民是正确的。但是你也希望离开时怀着决心，让关注的聚光灯一直照在我们身上，不仅仅是举行听证会，为变革带来一群强大的支持者，而是要真正做些事情，没有借口。我们必须把这个问题提交投票。我在众议院和参议院时发现，这就是决定性的时刻。演讲、新闻发布等都不重要，决定性的时刻就是我们对这些措施进行投票的时刻。现在是时候做出决定了。我不相信在美国美好的历史上，有过一个商业或行业主动站出来说“对我们进行监管，给我们一些法律限制”。而大多数企业的存在是为了盈利。我认为我们必须反思一下，这种盈利背后付出了什么代价。共和党的参议员肯尼迪说，我们的技术是否超越了我们的人性？我认为这是他提出的一个基本问题。我想加上一点，那就是我们的政治是否能超越技术，我们将会找到答案。
I want to thank a few people before we close up here. I've got several staffers who worked so hard on this. Alexander Galber. Thank you very much. Alexander. Jeff Hanson. Scott Jordan.
在我们结束之前，我想要感谢一些人。我有几位员工为此付出了很多努力。亚历山大·加尔伯，非常感谢你。亚历山大。杰夫·汉森。斯科特·乔丹。
The last point I'll make, Mr. Zuckerberg, is just a little advice to you. I think your opening statement on mental health needs to be explained because I don't think it makes any sense. There is an apparent in this room who's had a child that's gone through an emotional experience like this that wouldn't tell you and me they changed right in front of my eyes. They changed. They hold themselves up in their room. They no longer reached out to their friends. They lost all interest in school. These are mental health consequences that I think come with the abuse of this right. They have access to this kind of technology.
我最后要提出的一点建议是，扎克伯格先生，我认为您关于心理健康的开场陈述需要进一步解释，因为我认为它毫无意义。在这个房间里，有一个人经历了这样的情感经历，他们已经看到一个孩子在他们眼前发生了改变。他们变了。他们把自己关在房间里，不再与朋友联系。他们对学校失去了兴趣。这些都是我认为与滥用权利导致的心理健康后果有关的问题。他们能够接触到这种科技。
So I will jump.
所以我会跳下去。
I see my colleagues.
我看到我的同事们。
You want to say a word?
你想说一个词吗？
I think it was a good hearing.
我觉得听证会进行得不错。
I hope something positive comes from it.
我希望有积极的结果从中产生。
Thank you all for coming.
非常感谢大家的到来。
The hearing records going to remain open for a week for statements and questions may be submitted by Senators by 5 PM on Wednesday.
听证会记录将在一周内保持开放，参议员可以在周三下午5点之前提交陈述和问题。
Once again, thanks to witnesses for coming.
再次感谢各位见证人的到来。表达意思：再次感谢见证人前来。
The hearing stands adjourned.
听证会休会。
Just keep it packed here, folks.
大家就把它们都放在这里，不要动它们。
Good.
好的。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Watch your step there.
小心脚下。