The Random Show — 2024 New Year’s Resolutions, AI Upheavel, and Much More! | The Tim Ferriss Show
发布时间 2023-12-28 13:38:46 来源
Music Kefkef, good to see you man. Tim Tim. Look at this. In the flesh. In the flesh like grownups. Sitting at a table in Austin. Cheers man. Look at this. We're together. Love it. Happy holidays. Happy holidays. Happy early New Year's. I suppose.
音乐Kefkef，很高兴见到你，伙计。Tim Tim。看看这个。面对面相见了。像成年人一样坐在奥斯汀的桌子旁。干杯，伙计。看看这个。我们在一起。太喜欢了。节日快乐。节日快乐。提前祝新年快乐吧，我想。
Was I supposed to shoot that? No.
我本来应该开火吗？不。
This is quite good. That's sippin. This is sippin. Yeah. So this is something that I've had on previous random shows, but I don't think I've talked about it too much. Mm hmm. This is Lalo Tequila and Lalo Tequila. Full disclosure. It's my first and only alcohol related investment. I was first introduced to this at a fantastic restaurant here in Austin called Swerte. Excellent restaurant. I feel like you've talked about this place before. It's great. Maybe I should go there tonight.
这个还不错。这是划算的。这就是划算。是的。这是我在以前的一些随机节目中尝过的东西，但我觉得我没有太多谈论过它。嗯。这是拉洛(Lalo)龙舌兰酒，拉洛龙舌兰酒。全面披露。这是我第一个也是唯一一个与酒精相关的投资。我是在奥斯汀一个叫做Swerte的美妙餐厅里第一次接触到这个的。这个餐厅很棒。我觉得你之前也谈过这个地方。真不错，也许今晚我应该去那里。
In excellent restaurant. Was it hard to get in or no? Not too bad and there is typically some walk-in available. They reserve some space for walk-ins. Sweet. And I went there for the first time with Chase Jarvis. Mm hmm. Love to chase. And I had not seen Chase in ages. He was coming in from out of town, wanted to do something. Tex-Mexi ended up at Swerte and we wanted to have tequila because we both liked tequila. Asked what the server most recommended and he recommended something I'd never heard of. This Lalo. And I ended up really liking it. Both of us bought a bottle. Turns out that the namesake, so Lalo is the grandson of Don Julio. Oh, crazy.
在一家很棒的餐厅里。难以进去吗？还好，通常会有一些现场安排。他们为现场顾客留出了一些空间。太好了。我第一次和Chase Jarvis一起去那儿。Mm hmm。喜欢追逐。我有好久没见到Chase了。他从外地过来，想做点什么。最后我们在Swerte吃到了墨西哥美食，我们都喜欢酒，所以就想喝点龙舌兰。问服务员最推荐什么，他推荐了我从未听说过的Lalo。结果我很喜欢。我们俩都买了一瓶。原来这个酒的名字来源于Lalo，他是Don Julio的孙子。哦，太疯狂了。
And this is additive-free. It is matured in the plant instead of in barrels. So it's a Blanco. Only Blanco. They don't sell anything non-Blanco. And they harvest from more mature plants. So for a lot of the larger scale operations, they harvest one could argue prematurely and then they try to add a little razzle-dazzle with additives. And the way that they use the barrels. And instead of doing that, they're letting the plant do the work. So this particular tequila, for me at least, is a very clean drink. And I know this is a topic. Dijur, of course. Alcohol. No alcohol. And I find a place for it. And then about six months, nine months later, a year later, out of the blue, a friend of mine reached out to does a lot of CPJ. So consumer packaged good stuff. He's a genius when it comes to both operating and investing. He's one of the best I've ever seen. And he said, I'm not sure if you've ever heard of this particular brand, but would you have any interest in looking at Lalo? And I was like, yes, I would because I drank it all the time. And that's how it came together.
这是一个无添加剂的酒。它在工厂内成熟，而不是在木桶中。所以这是一个Blanco（白兰地）。他们不销售非Blanco的产品。他们从更成熟的植株中收获。所以对于很多大规模的生产过程来说，可以说他们收获的有点过早，然后试图通过添加剂来增添一些花俏的东西。以及他们使用木桶的方式。但是他们不这样做，而是让植株自己完成这个过程。所以对我来说，这种龙舌兰酒非常纯净。我知道，这是一个话题，当然是酒精。有酒精，没酒精。而我发现这样一个位置。然后大约六个月、九个月或一年后，我的一个朋友突然联系我，他经营和投资了很多消费品包装好的东西。他在运营和投资方面是一个天才，是我见过的最好的人之一。他说，我不知道你听说过这个特定品牌吗，你对Lalo感兴趣吗？我说，是的，因为我总是喝这个酒。就是这样。
And that was going to be my question for you because I feel like so many of us have had something that we've used in life and said, gosh, I wish I was an investor here. Like have you done that with multiple companies? Has there been something where you said, this is so great, I have to invest? And then if so, what is your strategy to get to that point where you can become friends of the founder, talk about around, you are better at doing this than I am. You're one of the best I've seen back when Twitter is usable. Sorry. But I remember Twitter and you've used pretty much every channel available. You're very generous and sincere when you find something you love, you share it. Add value first. Yes. And you are able to get the attention of founders historically. I've seen you do this over and over again. And often I'll do that.
这其实是我要问你的问题，因为我感觉很多人都有过一种感受，就是我们生活中总会遇到一些东西，然后觉得自己应该成为投资者。你有没有遇到过这种情况，有没有某些事情让你觉得“这真是太棒了，我必须投资”？如果有的话，你是如何达到那种与创始人成为朋友的程度，并且能够和他们谈论投资的策略呢？你在这方面做得比我好，我见过最好的就是你，这还是在Twitter还可用的时候。抱歉，咱们来谈谈Twitter吧，你几乎用过所有可用的渠道。你在发现自己喜欢的东西时非常慷慨和真诚，你总是先给予价值。是的，你过去已经成功吸引了创始人的注意，我一直见证着你一次又一次地做到这一点。而且通常在你这么做了之后，我也会去尝试一下。
So these days for me, if I find something and I will sometimes look at either my credit card statement or the stuff I use the most and run down the list to see if there's anything I might want to invest in, for instance. And there are a few that got away. There are a bunch of the got away, right? Like one password. I should have. And I knew the guys and they ended up raising money maybe a year or two ago. A good, a million dollars. There's massive. There's great guys. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, if I had just and I didn't want to, because it didn't feel right. But if I'd pushed just a little bit more, maybe could have done something. There are many stories like that that I could tell.
最近，当我发现一些东西时，有时候我会查看我的信用卡账单或者我使用最多的东西，然后仔细检查一下列表，看看是否有任何我想要投资的东西。然而有一些东西错过了。确实错过了很多东西，对吧？比如说One Password。我应该投资的。我认识那些人，他们大概在一两年前筹集了一百万美元。非常大规模，非常优秀的团队。是的。我就觉得，噢，如果我当时再加把劲，也许可以做点什么。我有很多类似的故事可以讲。
But these days I would say I try to be helpful. So I will take something and if it's good, I'm like, look, even if I don't end up being involved with the company, I want to help about products. Fantastic. So I might put it in the newsletter. I might mention it on the podcast. Do something like that. Yeah.
但是现在我会尽量去帮助别人。所以如果我发现什么好东西，我会说：“看，就算我最后不参与这个公司，我也想帮忙推广这个产品。”太棒了！我可能会将其放入新闻通讯中，或者在播客中提及。像这样做一些事情。是的。
One of the things that you hear these stories every once in a while, I remember when Facebook was getting off the ground, Zuck wanted a mural painted. You know this story. I do, but you should tell it anyway. The artist actually at that time said, you know, don't pay me in cash, pay me in stock. And that's oftentimes a very good strategy where you say, hey, I might not have the capital to go invest in this thing, but I have a skill. And that skill is somehow going to be useful to this company. If I can make friends with them, then at some point, you know, it's not, it's like, let's share the upside together. Totally. And you can, you don't have to ask for a big massive percentage, but you can say, hey, can I, is there some options available that I can have? And that can work. I mean, for that guy, I think it turned into like a billionaire or something like that. That was something crazy. At least several hundred million dollars. David Cho, who's fascinating. He has done some incredible and hilarious things. He's a very funny guy. I'm very, very creative. I don't know, but I've read that story so many times. He had a podcast called, I think it was DVDA, Double Vadge Double Annual with, wow, Asa Akira, who's a porn star. And I, it may have all been taken down, but he is a polymath. He's an incredible artist, incredible actor also. That could be named your show. No one tried to come up with names for your show. Instead of Tim Tim talk, you know, his close runner up. We all have to make, we all have to make decisions.
有一件事，你时不时会听到这样的故事，我记得当Facebook刚起步时，扎克想要画一幅壁画。你可能已经知道这个故事了，但你还是可以讲一下。那个艺术家当时实际上说，你知道的，别给我现金，给我股票。这通常是一个非常好的策略，你会说，嘿，我可能没有资金来投资这个项目，但我有一项技能。这项技能对这家公司来说会有用。如果我能和他们交朋友，那么在某个时候，你知道的，就像，我们一起分享好处。完全没错。你不必要求很高的比例，但你可以说，嘿，是否有一些可供选择的期权我可以得到？这可能是有效的。我的意思是，对那个人来说，我想他变成了亿万富翁之类的人物。那真是太疯狂了。至少几亿美元。大卫·赵是个很有魅力的人。他做过一些令人难以置信和搞笑的事情。他是个非常有趣和非常有创意的人。我不确定，但我已经读过那个故事很多次了。他有一个播客叫做《DVDA》，我想，和一个名叫Asa Akira的色情明星一起。也许已经被删除了，但他是一个多才多艺的人。他是一个了不起的艺术家，也是一个了不起的演员。这也可以成为你的节目名字。大家都应该给你的节目想一些名字，而不是叫Tim Tim Talk，你知道的，他是第二名。我们都必须做出决定。
I saw a shirt side note. Well, I've had one sip of tequila and here we go already. I saw a shirt out of climbing gym yesterday, which said no solutions only trade offs. And I was like, that is actually pretty interesting to sit with. But on the advising front, because that's really what we're talking about. Where can people learn more about that? Because I used to point people, and maybe this is still a good reference. It's a little dated, but Venture Hacks used to have a bunch on advisors and super advisors. This is worth unpacking a little bit for folks. If you look at, for instance, my track record, the vast majority of my lifetime earnings and startups have actually come from advising.
我看到了一件衬衫，上面附有一段注释。嗯，我只喝了一口龙舌兰酒，就开始了。昨天我在攀岩馆看到一件衬衫，上面写着“只有权衡取舍，没有解决方案”。我觉得这个挺有意思的。但就咨询方面来说，因为那真的是我们讨论的重点。人们可以从哪里了解更多相关信息呢？因为以前我经常告诉人们，也许这依然是个不错的参考。虽然有点过时，但Venture Hacks曾经有很多关于顾问和超级顾问的内容。这值得我们稍微深入了解一下。如果你看看，比如说，我的履历，我绝大部分的创业收入实际上都来自于做顾问。
And that's not to say that it's easy. That's not to say that times haven't changed, because certainly times have changed since 2008, 2010. But if you have a skill, or you have a network, or you have a platform, there are times when it will be appealing for both you and for startup to have some type of trade for equity. And Saka used to be fantastic at this before he became the Chris Saka and Marky lights that we know and love today. And taught me a lot about this.
并不是说这很容易。也并不是说时代没有变化，因为自2008年和2010年以来，时代确实发生了变化。但是如果你拥有一项技能、拥有一个人脉网络或者拥有一个平台，有时候对于你和初创企业来说，进行某种形式的股权交易是有吸引力的。在 成为我们今天所熟悉和喜爱的 Chris Saka 和 Marky lights之前，Saka在这方面曾经非常出色，并向我传授了很多经验。
But you might look for, let's just say, I don't know how the landscape has changed. You could probably speak to this. It's a 0.25%. So it's early. Yeah, like a quarter point. I mean, you've seen the company pretty early. Super early. And the way that that's de-risked for the company, or one way that that can be de-risked is that it vests over a course of, say, two years. So every quarter, a percentage of that basically becomes yours. And the company can cancel at any time. And that allows them, in a sense, to kind of try before they fully buy. Right. They get to see what results you can deliver. Any other thoughts on folks or thoughts on folks, Jesus. No, one step in.
但你可能需要寻找，让我们说，我不知道市场如何变化。你可能可以对此发表意见。这是0.25%的股份，所以现在还很早。对，就像四分之一点。我的意思是，你对这家公司早期就有所了解。非常早期。而为了为公司减少风险，或者说减轻风险的一种方式是，这些股份会在两年的时间里分批解禁。所以每个季度，一部分股份就会归你所有。而公司可以随时取消这些股份。这样一来，他们在全面购买之前可以进行试用。没错。他们可以看看你能带来什么结果。对于其他人还有什么想法，或对其他人有何看法？额，算我一个。
Well, this is related to caffeine, which we're going to come back to at some point. So it's important to remember that every company that's out there, private company, when they're forming and putting together their cap table, like their list of investors, employees, all of that, they put together something called an options pool, which is a percentage of the company that is used to incentivize those employees to work there. And so when you join a company, you get X number of options and you earn them over, say, typically three to four years. A part of that, most founders will set aside for advisors. And so these are people that are not compensated with money, but rather just stock.
好的，这与咖啡因有关，我们将在某个时候回到这个话题。所以要记住，每一家公司，无论是私人公司，在他们形成和集结他们的股权表时，就像他们的投资者名单，员工名单等等，他们会组建一个叫做期权池的东西，这是一个公司的一部分，用来激励那些在那里工作的员工。所以当你加入一家公司时，你会得到X数量的期权，并在通常是三到四年的时间内获得这些期权。其中的一部分，大多数创始人会留给顾问。所以这些人不是以金钱为补偿，而是以股票为补偿。
And so in my mind, what I always do when I'm forming a new company is I say, okay, I'm going to take 1% and I'm going to carve that into 10 rules. And then I'm going to go out there and find the 10 most impactful people that I can possibly find to help me change the outcome of this, this company. And you offer them on a roll and you say, hey, no fancy strings attached. So I never say to be an advisor, you have to tweet X number of times, like screw that, like you want it to come from a place of authenticity. And so, you know, And you're often doing this to people you know, presumably, right? Or you can find someone that you're just like, this is a really good match.
在我心中，每当我开始创办一家新公司时，我总是这样做：我会拿出1%的股份，并将其分成10条规则。然后，我会去找到那些可能对这家公司的结果产生最大影响的十个人来帮助我。你会给他们一个角色，然后告诉他们，这没什么花哨的条件。所以我从不要求顾问要发推特X次之类，像那样的我拒绝了，因为我希望这是真实的。所以你通常会找自己认识的人，对吧？或者你可以找到一个你觉得非常匹配的人。
Like, you know, I there's an AI company that I've been working with. And they needed someone that had a very specific expertise in a very small subset of a type of AI. And they found an advisor and they didn't know this person, but they reached out. It never starts with, Hey, we want to offer you an advisory role. It's a coffee. It's a hangout. It's a dinner. It's let's get to know each other. And it's like, Hey, you might be helpful. And sometimes they'll say, no, actually you can hire me as a contractor. But or it's a mixed mixture bowl thing and say, Hey, you know, we'll bring you on as a contractor for three months and we'll give you an advisory role. So there's no perfect science here, but just expect to get some fraction of 1% of a company as an advisor. And your hope is that this turns into, you know, a hundred, two hundred, five hundred million dollar company. And that becomes, you know, a very lucrative outcome for you.
就像你知道的那样，有一家我一直在合作的人工智能公司。他们需要某人在人工智能的一个非常特定的领域具有专业知识。他们找到了一位顾问，虽然他们不认识这个人，但他们联系了他。一开始不会直接说，“嘿，我们想提供给你一个顾问角色。”而是先一起喝咖啡，一起出去玩，吃晚饭，让我们互相了解一下。然后就是，“嘿，你可能会有所帮助。”有时候他们会说，“不，实际上你可以雇佣我做承包商。”或者是混合的方式，他们会说，“嘿，你知道吗，我们会把你作为承包商聘用三个月，并给你顾问角色。”所以这里没有确定的科学方法，但是你可以期望成为一家公司的顾问，拥有1%的股份。希望这个公司会发展成一个价值一亿、两亿、五亿美元的企业，这将为你带来很高的回报。
And I would imagine part of the reason that you're comfortable not having a laundry list of deliverables is because their advisor equity vests over a period of time. Yeah, it's over a period of time. You can cancel it anytime. So if you're three months in, you're like, ah, this person's not doing anything. You can just cancel it. And you know, no hard feelings. Everybody just, they get a little small percentage of that, you know, and that's fine. Yeah. I would say that it's best in my mind not to overcomplicate things, especially with celebrities. Celebrities don't want to have like some type of crazy, you know, 20 page document. They have to run by their agent and they have to go through with their attorneys and they have to figure out, oh, I'm going to have to show up at this event or like screw all that.
我想你不需要一个冗长的任务清单，部分原因是因为他们的顾问权益会持续一段时间。是的，它会在一段时间内逐渐解除。你可以随时取消，就算你们合作了三个月，你觉得这个人没做什么事情，你可以随时取消。大家都没意见，每个人只能得到一小部分，那样也没关系。是的。在我看来，最好不要过于复杂化问题，尤其对于名人来说。名人不想要一份复杂的、20页的文件，他们还要去找他们的经纪人，和他们的律师商议，他们还要考虑是否要参加这个活动之类的，太麻烦了。
Like if you work with a celebrity and you find someone, you happen to know someone and they want to be an advisor, say no strings attached. Oh, by the way, we're doing this party in two months, you can come or not. Right. And oftentimes that actually frees them up to be like, I don't feel like I'm a being used upon here. Sure. I'll show up for a half hour or 45 minutes. And that's a win for you, right? You want them to speak from the heart when they're talking about a product? I think you would agree that time kills deals, right? Like deals to knock it better with time. Exactly. Especially if you're dealing with someone who has an entourage or like a phalanx of lawyers, managers, agents, et cetera. You want it to be an easy yes. Make it an easy yes. 100%.
如果你与名人合作，然后你碰巧认识某人，并且他们想成为顾问，那么你可以毫无顾虑地说"没有任何附加条件"。哦，顺便说一下，我们会在两个月后举办一个派对，你可以来也可以不来。没错。而且往往这样做实际上会使他们觉得自己不像是被利用了。当然。我会出席半个小时或45分钟，这对你来说是个胜利，对吗？你希望他们在谈论产品时能发自内心吗？我想你会同意时间会破坏交易，对吧？交易随着时间的推移而变得越来越不好。确切地说，特别是当你与一个有随行人员或一群律师、经纪人等的人打交道时，你希望他们轻松地答应。让他们轻松答应。完全正确。
So I'll give you an example. Back in the day, you know, when I launched Moonbirds that PFP project, they had a T-project that I launched, I talked to a handful of people and some people that I knew quite well, that were very famous celebrities. There's one NBA player that is, you know, Hall of Famer that I gifted a Moonbird to. And I said, Hey, listen, he's like, I'm Web3curious. I want to learn more about, you know, Web3. And it's journalably like, you know, you know, yeah, huge. So I gave him one and I said, sweetheart of a guy, super nice guy. And I said, do him. I said, listen, you don't have to tweet about it. like that's, this isn't a pay for plaything. I would never want to do that. If for some reason down the road, you think it's really cool and you want to say something, you can. And he never tweeted about it. But that's fine, you know, because like he did just wasn't vibing with that or didn't feel that it was going in the right direction or whatever it may be. And same thing for Jimmy Fallon. You know, Jimmy was super kind, super nice. And he created a little parody account for his Moonbirds and was tweeting from it. And he was figuring out because he wanted to learn Web3 wallets. He set up his own wallet. He nested his own Moonbirds, meaning he interacted with smart contracts and it was because he was curious on the tech side and there was no money exchanged. There was no like there was nothing about it wasn't about that. So that's the way I like to do these types of deals. And you tell me if this resonates with you, I would also think in terms of whether you're building a company or an advisor, who would I like to work with on multiple companies? Because I've seen, for instance, in many of the cases where I've been an advisor, assuming you do a decent slash good job, a lot of these people, if they're good, are going to be serial entrepreneurs. And then you end up just advising, advising, advising. And they have their X-Men squad that they pull in to most startups. That seems to me to be pretty common. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think there's certain domain experts when you think about like strategies around different parts of your business where you say, gosh, I would always want this person in my corner if I'm going to go launch a consumer internet product. And so you go back to those people. Or if you don't know, a great example is I'm relaunching my podcast in January. And one of the things that I just have been out of loop on is a TikTok strategy. And I just really found a great company that had been recommended and had worked with multiple top 20 podcasts on their TikTok strategy. Because that's a hole that's missing. And so I'm going to go out, I asked like 10 friends, who's the best, the best of this? And then try and hone in on that person or people and then get them to work on your behalf. And in this particular case, I'm paying them for it. But that's fine. I think twerking is the answer. Yes. I think coordinated dances and twerking. You might have a little. That's what you do for your advisors.
所以我给你举个例子。在过去的时候，你知道的，当我启动了Moonbirds这个PFP项目时，他们有一个我发起的T项目，我和一些我认识很好、非常出名的名人交谈过。有一个NBA球员，他是名人堂成员，我送给他一只Moonbird。我说：“嘿，听着，他说他是Web3curious。我想了解更多关于Web3的东西。”这很有趣，你知道的，他说，“你知道，很大。”所以我给了他一只，并说他是个很好的家伙，非常友善。我告诉他，听着，你不必在推特上宣传它。这不是一个付费玩具。我绝不希望这样做。如果将来你认为很酷，并且想说些什么，你可以这样做。他从来没有在推特上发推。但这没关系，你知道的，因为他只是觉得不合适，不认为它朝着正确的方向发展，或者其他原因。对于吉米·法伦也是一样。你知道，吉米非常善良、友好。他为自己的Moonbirds创建了一个小恶搞账号，并在上面发推。他是想学习Web3钱包的使用。他自己建立了钱包，他与智能合约进行了交互，只是因为他对技术方面感兴趣，并没有钱交易。这就是我喜欢做这些交易的方式。你告诉我，如果这对你有吸引力的话。我还认为，在建立公司或担任顾问时，我会考虑我想与哪些人一起在多个公司工作。因为我发现，在我担任顾问的很多情况下，假设你做得还不错，很多这些人如果是有才华的，他们将成为连续创业者。然后你就会一直做顾问工作。他们有一支自己的超级英雄团队，他们会把他们引入大多数创业公司。我觉得这似乎是相当常见的。是的，绝对的。我觉得当你考虑到你业务的不同方面的战略时，有一些领域专家你会想，哇，如果我要推出一个消费者互联网产品，我会一直希望这个人站在我的角落里。所以你会回到这些人那里。或者如果你不知道，一个很好的例子是，我将在一月份重新启动我的播客。有一件我一直不了解的事情是TikTok战略。我刚刚找到了一家非常棒的公司，他们被推荐并且曾与多个排名前20的播客合作过他们的TikTok策略。因为这是一个遗漏的环节。所以我会去问十个朋友，谁是最好的，最好的人？然后尽量找到那个人或团队，让他们代表你工作。在这个特定的例子中，我会支付给他们。但这没问题。我想蹦迪就是答案。是的。我想协调的舞蹈和蹦迪。你可能会有点。这是你为你的顾问们做的事情。
Yeah, a little case of werewolf buns. I don't know if that's a plus or a minus on TikTok. January. Yeah. Let's talk about January. We're coming up on the new year. How are you thinking about New Year's resolutions, that type of thing? Yeah. So we do this every year. We do. I don't even want to go revisit our list because I'm sure they're horrible. What do you think your hit rate is on your previous list? You had it written down. Do you have your last list? Can you look at it? I don't have it in front of me right now. I would say that over the years I've become better. My hit rate is higher. 50%. Yeah, I would say it's 50%. I'd say it's probably 50%. Which A, if that were, start of investing, man. That would be the best of the best, right? Yeah. But you also don't want to set your resolutions like, brush my teeth three times a week. You don't want to set the bar so low just for checking the box. Right. So I would say it's 50%, maybe a bit more than 50%.
是的，有点像狼人的姿势。我不知道在TikTok上是个好事还是坏事。一月份。是的。让我们谈谈一月份。我们即将迎来新年。你对新年计划有什么想法，那种事情？是的。我们每年都这样做。我甚至不想再回顾我们的清单，因为我肯定会觉得它们很糟糕。你认为你之前的清单达成的比例有多高？你有写下来吗？你能看一下吗？我现在没带在身边。我会说多年来我变得更好。我的成功率更高。50%吧，我觉得是50%。我会说大概是50%吧。如果这是投资的开始，那将是最好的，对吧？是的。但你也不想把目标设得太低，比如每周刷牙三次。你不想只是为了打勾而将目标设定得太低。是的。所以我会说可能超过50%。
I think this year there's simple enough that I could actually get to 100%. Yes. That's exactly what I did. So this year for me, it's about less, but make sure I can try to get to 75 to 100% of them. So mine are really straightforward. Last year I went one month without drinking. This year my therapist has told me she's awesome. And she's like, oh, you made it to mom. She's like, oh, cool, cool. Congrats. Everybody does that. And I'm like, she's like a little bit of like a hard ass. And I kind of like that about her. And she's like, no, go three months. She's like, that's when the real benefits start to show up is at three months. And I'm like, could you, I mean, you could have said two, but she says that three, I'm going to go three months without drinking. That's a big one for me.
我认为今年的目标相对简单，我可能真的能达到100%。是的，我就是这样做的。所以对我来说，今年的目标是少一些，但确保我能够努力达到75%至100%的完成率。所以我的目标非常明确。去年我一个月没有喝酒。今年，我的心理治疗师告诉我她非常棒。她说：“哦，你撑过来了。”她说：“哇，好酷，祝贺你。每个人都会做到这一点。”而我则想，她有点强硬，但我还挺喜欢她的。她说：“不，再坚持三个月。”她说：“真正的好处会在三个月后逐渐显现。”我说：“你本可以说两个月的，但她说三个月，那我就试试三个月不喝酒。”对我来说，这是一个重要目标。
Daily meditation is obviously have been a big part of my life. I'm going to continue that trend. We can talk about Henry Schickman's new app too, which is going to be a big part of that. Zen master, the ice study under his finally launching a new meditation app coming in January called the way and very excited to help him with that app in terms of like on the product side and just usability side. Obviously, he's doing all the content. I'm not involved in it. I'm just an investor in it. Not involved in the content. Not involved in content, right? Yeah, I'm not as a master. But you know, you've studied very seriously with Henry. Yeah, for a few years. You introduced us. He's been on this podcast twice twice and they're very strong episodes. I encourage people to check those out.
日常冥想显然一直是我生活的重要组成部分，我将继续保持这种趋势。我们还可以谈谈亨利·席克曼的新应用程序，它将成为其中一个重要组成部分。禅师，我曾在他的指导下学习，他最终将在明年一月份推出一款名为"The Way"的新冥想应用程序，我对能在产品方面以及可用性方面帮助他感到非常兴奋。显然，他负责所有的内容，我只是参与了投资，并没有涉及到内容。对于内容，我并不是专家。但是，你确实是认真地与亨利学习过。是的，几年时间。是你介绍我们认识的。他曾两次在这个播客中出现过，并且这些都是非常精彩的节目。我鼓励大家去听一听。
What makes the way different? So the one thing about, you know, as an investor, so I'm a part time VC because I had this other, you know, NFT and art thing that I'm working on as well as a VC over true. We are looking for novel ideas, things that haven't been done before and the meditation app market is just completely saturated. Saturated. Like there's, there's who would want to build an app in that space. It's like it's, there's, I mean, comms dominating, you know, headspace dominating, like, you know, waking up fantastic app for more on the depth side. I would say Sam probably brings together the strongest group of teachers. I would say is a portfolio of meditation. Like a university of meditation. Yeah, exactly.
是什么让这个方法与众不同？作为一名投资者，我是一名兼职风投，因为我还在致力于另一个领域——NFT和艺术，同时也是一名VC。我们正在寻找独特的想法，那些之前未曾尝试过的东西，而冥想应用市场已经完全饱和了。饱和。谁还会想要在那个领域开发一个应用呢？就像，我是说，comm主导，headspace主导，还有像waking up这样优秀的深度冥想应用。我认为Sam可能汇集了最强大的教师团队，可以说它是一个冥想的教师组合，就像一个冥想的大学一样。是的，完全如此。
So Henry is, is, is approaches like, you know, if you go into any of these other meditation apps, it's like a meditation for sleep, a meditation for anxiety and meditation for this three minute meditation, two minute meditation, 30 second meditation. You know, it's like it's all these different. Henry is like, he's very humble, but he's one of only, I think, three fully accredited Zen masters and his lineage of Zen in the United States. And he is bringing Zen, a flavor of Zen mixed in with some other types of meditation. And his goal is simple. There's, it's the way it's one path. There's no choose your own adventure. It's not, it's not the ways. Yeah, it's not the ways, right. There's, you can't branch off and do a body scan over here and then come back for a sleep meditation or a sleep story. Like it's none of that is a singular path and his goal is to lead you to some type of awakening moment, sometime in the future. So it's for those that are like, okay, I've tried the other meditation apps. I want to go deep. I want to, I want to get really serious about this.
亨利的方式与其他冥想应用程序不同。其他应用中有针对睡眠、焦虑和三分钟、两分钟、30秒钟冥想的不同内容。亨利非常谦逊，但他是美国境内仅有的三位完全认可的禅宗大师之一，他将禅宗的元素与其他类型的冥想相结合。他的目标很简单，这是一条单一的道路，不是选择自己的冒险之旅，与导航应用不同。这不是可以在这里进行身体扫描，然后再进行睡眠冥想或睡前故事的方式。它是一条特定的道路，他的目标是在未来某个时刻引导你达到某种觉醒。所以这是为那些已经尝试过其他冥想应用程序，并且想要深入、认真地进行冥想的人而设计的。
So I can't tell you when it's going to launch there on beta right now. I can't tell you that the way app.com is going to be the place where you can put in your email address and I'll let you know when you know what we can do for your show notes. Let's put a beta link because that you can have up to a thousand testers. Perfect. Put it in your show notes and get a bunch of people testing out. Lovely. Yeah. We'll put it. Timed up, log slash podcast.
所以，我不能告诉你它何时会在测试版上推出。我不能告诉你，app.com将成为你可以填写电子邮件地址的地方，我会告诉你我们能为你的节目笔记做些什么。我们放一个测试版链接，因为你可以有最多一千个测试者。好的。把它放在你的节目笔记中，让很多人来测试。太好了。是的。我们会放在时段的日志/播客中。
Great. I did, which was going to be what I was going to say next, which is this is my first investment in a meditation app and my first investment in any type of consumer app in a while, in fact, and that's based on my interactions. There's never known. You know, which wasn't, I mean, that wasn't a bad thing. That was, that was certainly not, it didn't turn into the thousand X, you know, 10,000 extra turn that I would like. They turned it around. Yeah. It's a good product again. It is a good product. You can still use it, believe it or not. Dude, I don't, this is actually on my, my list.
太好了。我之前确实是要说的，这是我第一次投资冥想应用，也是我近期首次投资任何类型的消费者应用，这是基于我的亲身经历。我从未知道过。你知道，这不是什么坏事。当然，它没有带来成千上万倍的回报，但他们已经扭转了局面。是的，这是一个好产品。你还是可以使用它，信不信由你。兄弟，这实际上在我的清单上。
Okay. We'll get into that. But you have to finish your thoughts. Well, I was just going to say that I learned so much about product. I learned so much about startups. I learned so much about scaling, what to do, what not to do through my experience with that company where I was an advisor because I didn't have the capital early on to really build out a large portfolio with cash alone. And I was able to request, this is not a small thing for me. I was able to make requests of product changes directly. It's amazing that Lifeline CEO lifeline to the CEO and to the product team for me selfishly. If I'm using an app every day, that makes a difference to my quality of life. So I do not regret it. And part of your calculus, if you're going to be involved with the early stage has to be, I think the assumption that the vast majority are not going to return what you hope they're going to return. That's part out of 10 fail. It's just part of a power law distribution. Great book, by the way, power law.
好的，我们会深入讨论这个问题。但是你必须把你的想法说完。嗯，我只是想说，通过我在那家公司担任顾问的经历，我学到了很多关于产品、创业和规模化的知识。由于最初我没有足够的资本来纯粹用现金建立一个大型投资组合，因此我能够直接提出关于产品改进的要求对我来说是一件非常重要的事情。对于我来说，能向Lifeline公司的CEO和产品团队提出要求，让我每天使用的应用程序能够改善我的生活质量，这真是太棒了。所以我不后悔。如果你打算参与早期阶段的项目，你必须考虑到的一个因素是，大多数项目可能无法达到你的期望回报。这是一个10中有9个失败的规律，这是幂律分布的一部分。顺便说一下，幂律是一本很棒的书。
So New Year's resolutions, what else do you have and do you have a date? I'm just going to hold your feet to the fire a little bit for your three months. Have you decided on a start date?
新年的决心，你还有别的决心吗？你有确定的日期吗？我只是想在你的三个月中稍微督促你一下。你已经决定了开始的日期吗？
So I'm going to invite you to this. My birthdays in February, and you're invited. I got really lucky to get to know the artist, SON, S-O-H-N. Do you know SON and all of you? I don't. SON has become a nice friend, and he agreed to come play my birthday party for like 30 people. Amazing. And so he's going to fly out. He's in Spain right now. He's going to fly out and play. And I got to have a couple of drinks there. We're going to have a little breakfast. Yeah, that would be a. You'd be failing before you started. Exactly. If your first day were the day before your birthday. Yeah, after my birthday is when I'm going to kick this off, so that would be good. But yeah, so really quickly to hit on mine. So no drinks for three months. Daily meditation, no brainer. I want to organize my brain. I want to. In digital form. And so this is what's really interesting. In the last three months, multiple note-taking apps have enabled AI. And what they're doing now is they're saying screw knowing where your notes are. Ask questions of your corpus of data. So it's changing into a world where you can just enter all the data, enter all of Tim's brain into someplace and say, hey, what was that one note I had that one time when I was at that Mexican restaurant. And I think it was about cat beds. And it will literally serve you up that note based on the AI and its crawling abilities. And I think that's just fascinating. So Notion has added that. There are three. They call them second brain note-taking apps that are really forward that I'm considering. I'm still working through all of them to see which one I like the best. My candidates are Notion. Craft is amazing. Craft is a really beautiful note-taking app. It's a little bit more about, here's the current day, start taking notes and then you can interconnect the notes and do all kinds of fun things there. Is it spelled like the dictionary word, spelled like craft cheese? Yes. CRA. CRA. Craft. Obsidian is another one. Have you heard of it? I've heard of it. Or maybe I just like the name. It's more like graph-based inter-connected notes. Like all these backlinks, time together thoughts and ideas, kind of like brain. You've seen these cloud mappings of inter-connected notes.
所以我打算邀请你参加我的生日派对。我生日在2月，你被邀请了。我很幸运认识了艺术家SON，他是个很棒的朋友，他同意过来为我们大约30个人的生日派对演出。太棒了。他打算从西班牙飞过来表演。我们还准备了一些饮料和早餐。嗯，这会很有意思。你要是在生日前一天失败了，那就是一开始就输了。是的。我打算在我的生日过后开始这个计划，那样应该很好。然后我简单跟你说一下我的计划。首先是三个月不喝酒。每天冥想，这是个简单的决定。我想把我的思维整理好，用数字形式保存下来。这里有一件有趣的事。在过去三个月里，很多笔记应用都加入了人工智能的功能。现在，它们不需要知道你的笔记在哪里，你只需向你的数据来源提问，它们就能根据人工智能和搜索功能为你找到你想要的笔记。我觉得这真的很有意思。Notion就是一个有这种功能的应用。还有其他三个备选的笔记应用，它们都是所谓的"第二大脑"笔记应用，非常先进。我还在仔细研究它们，看看哪个是我最喜欢的。我目前的候选有Notion和Craft。Craft是一个非常漂亮的笔记应用，以当天日期为中心的，你可以互相连接笔记，做各种有趣的事情。这个单词的拼写和奶酪Craft的拼写方式相同吗？是的，CRA.CRA. Craft。另外一个备选是Obsidian。你听说过吗？我听说过，或许是因为它的名字。它更像是基于图形的相互连接笔记，就像一颗大脑，将思维和想法联系在一起。你应该见过那些云图一样的相互连接的笔记。
But taking apps and services also a very crowded market. Very crowded. And capacities is the last one I'm looking at. I'm leaning towards craft. I think that's probably going to be my go-to one app of the year last year on iOS. And it's pretty fantastic. And I will say in that list, and still actually I think the largest market share barely bidding out Notion is Evernote still. And so I installed Evernote, the latest version. I'm like, damn, this is actually a lot better. I thought for a minute there it was going to go under. I was like, because it traded hands a little bit. There was a little bit of drama there. Yep. And but. Got overly diversified, overextended. Yeah. But it's quite good. They've revamped the app and it's nice. So that in launching my podcast.
但是，应用和服务市场也是非常拥挤的。非常拥挤。功能是我最后关注的一点。我更倾向于使用Craft。我认为Craft可能是我去年iOS上使用的最佳应用程序。它非常棒。我要说的是，在那个列表中，目前市场份额最大、仅次于Notion的是Evernote。于是我安装了最新版本的Evernote。我觉得这个版本实际上好得很多。有一会儿我还以为它要倒闭了，因为它换了几个所有者，出现了一些小的问题。是的。但是，它变得过于多样化，扩张过度。是的。但它还是相当不错的。他们重新设计了这个应用程序，很好用。所以在启动我的播客时，我会用它。
And so just keep it in a simple launching The Kevin Rose Show, which is KevinRose.com. If you want to sign up, I'll let you know when it launches. But I got something great guest lined up for that show. And taking it seriously, building out a real studio, doing a professionally professional editors, the whole thing. So it's going to be great. It is going to be great. I can't wait to see.
因此，我们只需简单地推出"The Kevin Rose Show"，即KevinRose.com网站。如果你想要订阅，我会在推出时通知你。但是我已经邀请了一些很棒的嘉宾来参加这个节目。而且我们会认真对待，建立一个真正的工作室，聘请专业的编辑人员，全方位地做好准备。所以这将是很棒的。我迫不及待想看到它的呈现。
I want to keep it simple about the raw store. It's not 10 things, but like just like three or four. Yeah. What are yours? Mine are. And then I'm going to come back. Don't worry, folks, it's not going to consume the whole show. But I want to ask you a question about AI. So I'll preload that in your head, which is where do you think people will make will compromise their privacy because of really compelling convenience where they might regret it? I'm just like where they might click yes in providing access where later the big. Oh, I really shouldn't have done that. So that's I have two quick answers for that.
我想对原始商店保持简单。不是10件事情，只有三四件而已。是的。你的是什么？我的是。然后我会回来。不用担心，朋友们，不会占用整个节目的时间。但我想问你一个关于人工智能的问题。所以我会预先告诉你，你认为人们在哪些方面会因为非常方便而牺牲隐私，并可能会后悔？我只是想知道他们可能会在哪些地方点击“是”以提供访问权限，结果后悔说：“哦，我真不该这么做。”所以我对此有两个快速答案。
One, I think is going to be photos. People believe that don't ever click yes to all photo access, especially if you've got dick pics. I'm just like, wow. Listen, I went there because the buddy mind just got compromised last week. Look, I kid you not. I kid you not. So this is a true story. I'm not going to say who. This is I swear to you, Tim, this is a true story. My buddy got sim swapped. Okay. Somebody took over his iCloud account and he's got a very and my wife knows it. So I can say this freely. He's got a very beautiful wife. And you know, he's a good looking dude. It's all be, you know, but kind of like us, you know, like me, be my, whatever. And he's got pictures of his wife, like all in his iCloud, like, you know, and she's like, he's traveling a lot. She's saying a little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little naughty naughty. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, dude, are you, are you sending a little back or, you know, like those are the ones like no one's going to complain about your wife getting leaked online. It's like, are your pigs going to get out there online? It was a really stressful few days. I am sure.
首先，我认为其中一个东西会是照片。人们都相信，千万不要轻易点击所有照片访问权限，尤其是如果有一些黄色照片。我只能说，哇，听着，我去了那里是因为上周我的朋友遭到了攻击。是真的，我不是开玩笑，这是一个真实的故事。我不会说是谁，但是我向你发誓，蒂姆，这是个真实的故事。我的朋友的手机卡被替换了。好吧，有人接管了他的iCloud账户，而且他的妻子是个非常漂亮的女人。你知道的，他也是个好看的家伙。就像我们一样，呃，我是说，就像我一样。他在他的iCloud里有他妻子的照片，你知道的，他经常出差，她偶尔有些淘气。是的，我就像，你有没有回复一点点啊？你知道，这种事情不会有人抱怨你妻子的照片被泄露在网上。问题是，你的照片会不会被传到网上？这几天真的很压抑啊，我可以想象。
Honestly, not to judge anyone who's, who's fond of shooting around dick pics. I don't understand how anyone ends up in that position. Yeah. I just like don't do it. No, there are certain commandments. Yeah. That shall not send dick pics. Yeah. Just like the downside is so much higher than any possible upside. Right. Plus some, I mean, look, maybe I'm biased. I'm just like, who was like, I don't think I have, you know, the Shrek of penises, but it's like, I don't, I don't understand what the appeal is also. Well, that's because you don't like penises. I'm not. Yeah. I don't have a like a collage of schwances made into piece of artwork on my wall. Yeah. So maybe, maybe that's it. Maybe I'm just, that's based on the team. I mean, it's for some people that's kind of they're like, you know, the way they flirt remotely and things like that. And that's, it's not me. I don't, I don't do that either. But I think I'm actually doing a full episode on my podcast on dick pics. And then take things and on, on, on, on locking down specifically iCloud. Cause I think it is the scariest place for hackers to gain access to because they get your iMessage messages and they also get your, your photos as well.
坦白说，我不想评判那些喜欢发私密照片的人。我真的不明白他们为什么会这样做。我根本不会这样做。也就是说，有一些规则，比如不要发送私密照片。因为风险远远高于可能的好处。而且，我觉得有些人可能有偏见。我并不认为我拥有很好的男性生殖器，但是我真的不明白其中的吸引力所在。嗯，那是因为你不喜欢男性生殖器。是的，我没有在墙上挂一堆生殖器的拼贴艺术品。也许这就是问题所在。对于一些人来说，这是他们远程示爱的方式。但这不是我的风格。我也不会这样做。但是我计划在我的播客中做一个完整的剧集，讨论关于私密照片的话题。然后讨论如何保护iCloud账户，因为我认为这是黑客入侵最可怕的地方，因为他们可以获取你的iMessage消息和照片。
But any, any quick tips for folks just like teaser? Yeah. Here's a quick teaser. Number one thing you can do is that.
但是，你有什么对像我这样的人的快速提示吗？是的。这里有一个简单的提示。你可以做的第一件事就是。
So you want to hear the crazy shit that happened to him? No, no. It's a little low your mind.
所以你想听听发生在他身上的疯狂事情？不，不要了。内容可能会让你感到难以接受。
Oh, my God. Here. So we can tenx my paranoia. There we go.
哦，我的天啊。给我这个。这样我们就可以解决我对事情过于敏感的问题了。就这样。
It actually wasn't a sim swap. So what happened is, is that Apple, as you know, if you forget your password, they have something called iForgot, which is like, you can go there and say, I forgot my password, right? And it says, okay, well, do you have another device that you can confirm? No, I don't have another device. Okay. Well, what's your backup phone number, right? And so you can reset that password with the backup phone number that you put into the system. That makes sense, right?
实际上并不是电话卡交换。事实是苹果有个叫iForgot的功能，如果你忘记密码，你可以去那里然后点击“我忘记了密码”，对吧？然后它会问你，好的，你有其他设备可以确认吗？没有。好的。那么你备份的手机号是什么呢？你可以通过系统中填入的备份手机号重置密码。这样说清楚了吧？
A sim swap, somebody steals your phone number and they get access to it. And then that's how you get compromised. Their sim swaps are getting harder to do because, you know, some of the big providers have caught on and they've tried to kind of like prevent that from happening, ask you more questions, all that nature.
SIM卡交换是指某人窃取你的手机号并获得对其的访问权限。然后，这就是你的信息被泄露的方式。由于一些大型服务提供商已经意识到了这个问题并努力防止发生这种情况，所以进行SIM卡交换变得更加困难了，他们会询问更多问题，做出相应的防护措施。
Well, someone called in on his behalf to let's, let's just say, because it was probably might want to bleep that out of their sponsor at some point, but they called in, they faked like it was him, you know, and they didn't ask for a sim swap. What they asked for, they said, Hey, can you forward the phone number just for an hour to this other number? Because I needed it for it.
嗯，有人代替他打电话给我们，让我们说说，因为他的赞助商可能希望屏蔽这一点，但他们打电话过来，假装是他，你知道的，并且他们没有要求进行SIM卡交换。他们要求的是，他们说：“嘿，你能不能只把电话号码转发一个小时到这个其他号码呢？因为我需要用它。”
So normally this was straight social engineering, no, but you was straight social engineering, but listen to this, normally a forward wouldn't work because the text message doesn't get forwarded only calls to, but you can go into Apple and you can say, I have auditory problems. I can't hear. Can you call me with the security code? So they did a quick forward. They called it didn't go to his phone and went to the hackers phone. Apple read the security code to them via audio. They put it in compromised, reset it, change this phone number, compromise, download all this data and then tried to blackmail him to get his data. Oh my God.
所以通常这只是简单的社交工程，但你却成功进行了社交工程。但你听听，通常情况下，转发短信是行不通的，因为只有电话可以转发。但你可以去苹果公司，告诉他们我听力有问题，不能听到电话。能不能用安全码给我打电话呢？于是他们迅速转发了电话。他们打了电话，但没有打到他的手机，而是打到了黑客的手机。苹果通过语音为黑客读取了安全码。他们将其输入，获取了访问权限，重设了密码，并更换了电话号码，然后试图勒索他以获取他的数据。天呐。
Okay. So in terms of teasers for yes, teaser would number one thing to do is that you want a cell phone provider where there is not a phone number to call and it's really, truly securely locked down. Your best provider for that in the United States is Google Fi. And what you do is you don't set it up with your Google account. You create a brand new Gmail account that no one knows. Tim Tim secure 8 5 3 7 at Gmail.com. You just docked me so hard. Exactly. And then you two factor the off the crap out of that turn on Google's advanced protection there. And then you sign up for a Google Fi account, which is a brand new phone number, then you tell Apple that is your backup phone number because Apple can still service your main number, but only use that backup number to reset passwords. So there's no possible way anyone would know that backup number. And so it's a whole thing. There's more steps to it than that.
好的。所以，对于吸引人的预告片，第一件要做的事情是找一个没有电话号码可以拨打的手机提供商，而且确实是安全锁定的。在美国，Google Fi是最好的选择。你要做的是不使用你的Google账号设置它，而是创建一个没人知道的全新Gmail账号，比如Tim Tim secure 8 5 3 7 at Gmail.com。你真的很冷静地干了我一波。没错。然后，你要 启用Google的高级保护功能，使用双重验证来保护账号。接下来，你需要注册一个Google Fi账号，这个账号会有一个全新的电话号码，然后告诉苹果这个号码是你的备用号码，这样苹果仍然可以服务你的主号码，但只能使用备用号码来重置密码。所以，没有任何人会知道你的备用号码。整个过程还有更多步骤。
You know, you get hardware keys involved like Google's Titan key, which is the most like hardcore of the USB C, you know, keys, hardware keys. It uses one of their Titan chips, which is legit. It's a whole thing, but it's a terrifying time for me to double down. My phone has been acting funny recently.
你知道的，像谷歌的Titan密钥这样的硬件密钥被涉及进来，它是最像USB C的，你知道的，密钥，硬件密钥。它使用他们的Titan芯片之一，是合法的。这是一个庞大的系统，但对我来说现在是一个可怕的时刻，因为我的手机最近表现得很奇怪。
It's making me spooked a bit. It scares the crap out of me.
这让我有点害怕。它把我吓得要命。
Yeah. It's like my phone has been acting a little funny and I'm like, weird.
是的，就好像我的手机表现得有点奇怪，让我感到有些奇怪。
You know what sucks to is I've been going to what's at more and doing that seven days like delete all my messages because honestly, there are, tell me if you feel this way. I know you feel this way because we have these cards on text. There are things that you say with your friends that you're just like, if anyone read this out of context, I would seem like the most. Oh, insert whatever.
你知道什么很糟糕吗？我一直去删掉我在Whatsapp上的所有信息，虽然那是我每天都在做的事情，因为说实话，有时候你会发些和朋友之间的消息，如果别人断章取义地读到，你会显得非常，哦，任何词语都可以填在后面。我知道你也有这种感觉，因为我们之间的对话记录是这样的。
Every person who uses group threads, if you are remotely interesting or if you're funny, you're all fucked. Like, if anything, we're made public. Everybody's good. The number of like jokes I've made that are not something I would want the world to see, but are all in good fun and just amongst friends. It's like in the thousands, right? And if I chick on line, I would deny it all. I didn't write that. I did. The AI. But yeah, it's tough.
每个使用群组聊天的人，如果你稍微有趣或幽默，你们都完蛋了。就像，如果有事发生，我们就会被公之于众。每个人都好。我开过的笑话有不少我不愿意让世界看到，但都是为了好玩，只是在朋友之间。数量可能上千了吧？如果我在线上说了什么蠢话，我会否认的。那不是我写的。是AI写的。但是，是啊，这很艰难。
So anyway, this is actually really good tequila. It's really smooth.
所以，无论如何，这款龙舌兰酒实际上真的很好。它非常顺滑。
So on the AI front, real brief. And then we said photos was the one part. You asked what were the two places where or what were the places where AI might compromise your data? Yes. So that's the first one.
在AI领域，简单来说，我们认为照片是其中一部分。你问过在哪两个地方或者说AI可能会危害你的数据吗？是的，这是第一个地方。
The main thing and the second one would be just this idea of these note taking apps. Because if you're journaling, like for me, I have a fantastic therapist. I journal all of that, right? And so things like Obsidian, the reason I'm drawn to one, that one in particular is it's local only. So it only doesn't sync to the cloud. And when it does, it uses a local encrypted key. So they not even they can read your data. I trust notion. I trust it. If someone were to compromise their key on their end in theory, even though the data is encrypted at rest, meaning when it's not being used as encrypted on their hard drives, is still a potential vulnerability there. So that does, but at the end of the day, if someone really wants to read my therapy, it's like whatever. We live in a world where you can just be like, oh, someone made that up. Yeah, there's a whole new world of plausible deniability with AI. And there's a whole new world of exploits. Yeah.
主要的事情和第二个事情就是关于这些笔记应用程序的想法。因为如果你在写日记，就像对我来说，我有一位很棒的心理治疗师。我将所有的事情都写在日记里，对吧？所以像Obsidian这样的应用程序，我之所以被吸引，特别是因为它只是本地应用。它只是不与云同步。并且在同步时，它使用本地加密密钥。所以他们甚至都不能读取你的数据。我相信Notion。我信任它。如果有人在理论上破解了他们的密钥，即使数据在静止时是加密的，也就是在他们的硬盘上不在使用时，仍然存在潜在的漏洞。但归根结底，如果有人真的想读我的治疗记录，那就随他们去吧。我们生活在一个可以随意否认的人工智能的新世界，也有了新的攻击方式。是的。
And on the AI side, for people who might be curious, I've actually not on my personal notes, but we have trained, or I should say rather automatic, which runs WordPress.com. And I rely on their enterprise side of things for all of my websites. They have an AI feature and they've trained this AI on all of my transcripts. So if you want to ask questions of 700 or so transcripts of the Tim Ferris, so you can do that. The results in a lot of cases are surprisingly good. There's several startups working on this. I saw one that actually indexed your show. And if you ask a question of it, we'll return the clip in which you said the answer to it, which is amazing. I was thinking the other day about a great startup that I don't have the time to build would be a podcast app that imagine this world and tell me that this is interesting to you. So it trains on all of your data. I'm listening to Tim Ferris show. I'm halfway through an episode. And you mentioned something that I don't understand or I'm just not familiar with. Well, just to say I wask for something random. And I hit pause and I hit the Tim AI button. It's trained on your voice so it can respond in your voice. And I say, Tim, what is I waskah actually? Before we continue the show. And you respond, you say, well, I waskah is this. And I talked about it in episode number 12, blah, blah, blah. And also number 27. And here's a clip of me saying this. And then you can rejoin the stream of the podcast and continue. So it's almost like you show up as a coach mid podcast for any questions I have about that show so I can pick your brain and also as applied to your books. So I could go into your entire corpus of books that I have and ask questions of that data as well. That has to be the future, right? Yeah, that's interesting.
在AI方面，对于可能感到好奇的人来说，我个人并没有开发过这个技术，但我们的Wordpress.com团队已经训练了一个自动化AI系统。我依靠他们的企业级服务来管理我所有的网站。他们的AI功能是基于我的访谈稿训练的。所以如果你想问关于Tim Ferris访谈约700个的问题，你是可以做到的。结果在很多情况下都非常出色。目前有几个初创公司致力于这个领域。我曾看到一个公司能够对你的节目进行索引。当你对它提问时，它会返回你说答案的片段，这真是令人惊叹。有一天我在思考一个了不起的创业点子，但我没有时间去开发它，那就是一个播客应用。来想象一下这个世界吧，你的数据被训练了。我正在听Tim Ferris节目的一集，我已经听到一半了。你提到了我不理解或不熟悉的某个东西。那么我只需按下暂停，点击"Tim AI"按钮。由于它已经训练过你的声音，所以它能用你的声音回答。我说："Tim，'I waskah'到底是什么意思？在我们继续播放之前告诉我一下。"你回答说："啊，'I waskah'是指这个。我在第12集和第27集里谈到过它，等等。这是我说的一个片段。"然后你可以继续播放节目。所以在播客中间，你就像一位教练一样出现了，回答我对节目的问题，我可以请教你的意见，也可以研究你的书中的内容。这一定是未来的发展方向，对吗？是的，很有趣。
How do you feel about it as a content creator? Does that make you a little uneasy? It doesn't make me uneasy on a content level because I operate from a place of abundance with my stuff because my stuff is so dense, right? It's not dense necessarily in a bad way, but it's like I could talk about the content of say one of my books for hours on dozens of podcasts and not come close to exhausting even 20% of that book. So I'm very forthcoming with that. The one flag I would say that I have for that particular example is that if it's my voice and so on and this is going to come up a lot with AI, what is the indemnity? What does liability look like? Right. Right. If someone uses an ad and they're like, well, this Tim AI told me that I should do A, B, and C or that I should or could X, Y, and Z.
作为一个内容创作者，你对此有什么感觉？这让你有点不安吗？就内容本身而言，这并不让我感到不安，因为我的作品基于丰富的素材，我的内容是如此深度的，对吧？它的深度并不一定是坏的，而是说，我可以在数十个播客中讨论我任何一本书的内容，甚至不会接近耗尽书中的20%。所以我对此非常愿意分享。但是，对于上述特定例子，有一个值得关注的问题是，如果是我的声音等等，这在人工智能方面会涉及到很多，那么责任归属是什么样的呢？对吧。如果有人使用广告，然后说：嗯，这个 Tim AI 告诉我应该做 A、B 和 C，或者应该或可以做 X、Y 和 Z，那么这个问题就会出现。
Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z, Z. When you start a day in Africa, you're gonna be nervous.
当你在非洲开始一天时，你会感到紧张。
There are, we don't have to spend a lot of time on this, but there are people called career plaintiffs out there. Unfortunately, I know what this is. But for instance, there will be a law firm. What they do is they file a class action lawsuits based on a couple. And like, you know, Barbara and Bob Jones are the couple that they work with all the time and they're like, Hey, Barbara and Bob, Subway sandwiches is selling 11 and a half inch subs, but they're calling them footlong go by two of them and then complain with us and we'll file this thing. We'll give you 10% of the upside. And I think that some of these AI models will provide a nice, juicy bite of the apple. That was actually a real lawsuit, by the way, that you're mentioning. Oh, I know. Yeah. Oh, I know. But we won't get into the details of why I know that the US man, some of these things, it's just astonishing that that they, the rules provide for some of these creatures to exist in profit.
在这方面，我们不需要花太多时间，但是确实存在一些被称为职业原告的人。很不幸，我知道这是什么意思。举个例子，可能有一家律师事务所。他们的做法是根据一对夫妻提起集体诉讼。就像，你知道，芭芭拉和鲍勃·琼斯就是他们一直在合作的那对夫妻，他们会说，嘿，芭芭拉和鲍勃，Subway三明治卖11.5英寸，但是他们称之为一英尺长，你买两个然后和我们一起投诉，我们会提出诉讼。我们会给你10%的好处。顺便说一句，你提到的这个确实是真的诉讼案。哦，我知道。是的，我知道。但我们不会深入探讨我为什么知道这个的细节。美国人，有些事情真是令人惊讶，规则允许这些生物存在并获利。
Coming back to New Year's resolutions. Yeah. We had a nice big boomerang on that mine are, I would say simple, not necessarily easy. As is true with a lot of things. The first is minimalist delegation. And what that means to me is delegating the why and the who, but not necessarily the how. So I think my predisposition is to be very detailed when I delegate various types of tasks or projects. In other words, what I would like to do more of is here is at the simplest level, five words of what I want to do, figure it out. Right. And you can handle all the specifics, you should know that we should have at least three bids if we're putting something out that's expensive, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, but to really take my hands off the wheel in terms of over prescribing the details, which I, which I have a tendency to do because my mind is very detail focused. I'm very meticulous. But I have found that more often than not, I can point to examples of where I'm providing too much step by step detail. And also people who receive that, in some cases feel like they're being micromanaged. Not only that, they're not building the muscle. Exactly. Because they need to understand where the only way they can kind of build that muscle around who you are and what you want is by making mistakes. And you're saying, hey, I would have done it this way a little bit differently because of X, Y, and Z. And then they learn from that mistake versus you just prescribing, it saves you a shit ton of time saves a ton of time. So what I'm, what I'm experimenting with and I've already started doing this, and I think I've made a lot of progress is say less, say less, and be available for questions. But otherwise, make it clear that there's a certain degree of wiggle room and space for errors that is okay.
回顾新年的决心。嗯。我们在这方面遇到了一个美妙的反弹。我觉得我的决心很简单，但不一定容易实现。很多事情都是这样。首先是最简化的任务委派。对我来说，这意味着委派"为什么"和"谁"，但不一定是"怎样"。所以我觉得我的天性是在委派各种任务或项目时很详细。换句话说，我希望能够更多地只给出五个简单的词，告诉他人我想要做什么，然后让他们自己搞定。对了，所有具体的细节都由你来处理，你应该知道，如果我们需要做一些昂贵的事情，至少要有三份报价......但是要真正在细节方面不过多地指导，这是我有一种倾向性的做法，因为我的思维非常专注细节，我非常一丝不苟。但是我发现大多数情况下，我会提供过多的逐步详细说明的例子。而且有些人在接收到这些详细说明时，会觉得被过度管理。不仅如此，他们也无法锻炼自己的能力。确切地说就是，他们需要通过犯错误来了解你是如何想的，你会因为X、Y和Z的原因而希望他们用不同的方式做。然后他们通过这个错误来学习，而不是你仅仅提供指导，这样可以节省大量的时间。所以我正在尝试进行的实验，并且我已经开始这样做了。我觉得我取得了很大的进展，就是说话越少越好，并且保持回答问题的态度。除此之外，让人们明白有一定的灵活空间和允许犯错的空间是可以接受的。
So when you're admin walks and you say sandwich, meatball sandwich throws you throw it against the wall and says, Oh, I'm fucking sandwich. That would be one way to handle it. And I remember there was, I want to say a blog post a while ago that was written by either Ben Casnoka or Reid Hoffman, but as Ben Casnoka used to be the let's just call it like aid to camp or chief of staff for Reid Hoffman. And what Reid had said to Ben was something along the lines. And I remember remember this because I had to look it up. This would be a chance for me to interrogate like the Reid AI. What do you mean my blah, blah, blah? He said in the service of speed, I'm willing to accept 10% foot faults. And I was like, foot faults. What does that mean? And I think it's a tennis reference, which is like, when you step over the line, when you're serving and you get called for a fault. But in the service of speed, basically, the way I interpret that is you can get 10% wrong. Ideally, it's not really expensive catastrophic stuff, but I'm willing to accept the 10% error rate in the service of speed. So I'm trying to think about it along those lines, because there's so many things that are either reversible or inexpensive, where it doesn't really matter. Yeah, doesn't really matter. You're better off making sort of wrong decision and then right decision and doing both of those quickly, because you course cracked, then taking a ton of time to deliberate in your mind when oftentimes you don't even have complete information. Right. You don't know. But also like, imagine you get that down to 5%, the extra effort required. What is that doing to you as a burden? Yeah, versus just letting go a little bit and letting those faults happen. And it's got to be a little bit freeing. Yeah, totally.
当你的管理员走过来，你说三明治，肉丸三明治，他把它扔到墙上，然后说：“哦，我操三明治。”那将是一种处理方式。我记得以前有一篇博文，我想说是由本·卡斯诺卡或雷德·霍夫曼写的，但本·卡斯诺卡曾经是雷德·霍夫曼的副官或幕僚长。雷德对本说的大致是这样的。我记得这是因为我不得不查阅资料。这对我来说就像是一个与雷德人工智能的对话机会。你说的“我是什么意思”是什么意思？他说为了速度，我愿意接受10%的错误。我当时很疑惑，什么叫做错误。我想这是一个网球术语，就像当你发球时越过界线，然后被判犯规一样。但就速度而言，我的理解是你可以出错10%。理想情况下，这些错误并不是非常昂贵或灾难性的事情，但为了速度，我愿意接受10%的错误率。所以我正试着沿着这个思路去思考，因为有很多事情是可以被纠正或者代价不高的，所以并不重要。是的，真的不重要。你最好是迅速做出错误的决定，然后再做出正确的决定，因为你纠正了错误，而不是花很多时间在思考中，通常你甚至没有完整的信息。对，你根本不知道。但是，想象一下，如果你把错误率降到5%，额外的努力会对你产生什么负担？对比起来，只是稍微放手一点，让这些错误发生的感觉可能会有点解脱。是的，完全正确。
Question for you, because I thought you recommended at some point this book to me, and I have two or three friends who have recommended it since the surrender experiment. Yeah. Are you still a fan? Michael Singer? Yes. Yeah. I'm still a fan.
问一个问题给你，因为我记得你曾经向我推荐过这本书，而且自从《放弃实验》之后，我还有两三个朋友也向我推荐了这本书。是的，你还是个粉丝吗？迈克尔·辛格？是的，是的，我还是个粉丝。
Okay. Could you say a little bit about it? Because I don't know if we've ever talked about it on the podcast. Yeah. I mean, I haven't read it for probably two and a half or so years now, but Michael Singer is, I don't want to say spiritual guru or more just kind of like a salt of the earth type guy that has figured out that surrender is kind of the ultimate freedom. Like this idea that you can just release and let go puts you more in the present moment than pretty much anything else.
好的。你能谈一点关于它吗？因为我不知道在播客中我们是否曾经谈论过它。是的。我的意思是，我大概两年半没读这本书了，但迈克尔·辛格他不是什么灵修大师，更像是一个与世无争的人，他发现放手是一种终极自由。就是这种放下一切的想法让你更能活在当下，比其他任何事情都更有效。
And the whole book is around how when stuff comes in, it doesn't hit you. It doesn't hit and stick. So like to hit and stick and marinate and and fester is not surrendering. It's like it's letting it the energy build and bring you down oftentimes. And the book is framed around this idea that the more you can let go, the more freedom there is, the more happiness there is. And as Henry Shukman put it, the freedom comes from not the tight grip on reality, but the slow finger by finger letting go of that grip. And part of the appeal for me as it was described, I have not read the book, but a very close friend of mine is reading right now. He has a course, by the way, that's fantastic. It's on Sounds True. It's a video course. And it's quite good.
整本书的主题是当事物发生时，它并不会击中你。它不会击中并停留。所以像击中、停留、浸泡和恶化都不是投降。这就像是让它能量逐渐积累并让你变得沮丧。这本书围绕着这样的理念展开，你越能够放下，就越有自由，越有幸福。正如亨利·舒克曼所说，自由来自于对现实紧握的松动，而不是紧握的指尖缓慢地松开。对我来说，这本书非常吸引人，虽然我没有读过，但我有一个非常亲密的朋友正在阅读。顺便说一下，他有一个非常棒的课程，可以在Sounds True上观看。它是一个视频课程，非常好。
It's a video course. Did you watch the, is it necessary to watch the video? Or is it just like he's a quirky personality and he's great on video. He's just like really funny. And it seems like that book at least is his personal story, which automatically makes it more engaging for me.
这是一个视频课程。你有看过视频吗？看视频必要吗？还是只是因为他是一个怪异的人物，很擅长在视频中表现？他非常有趣。而且至少看起来那本书是他个人的故事，这对我来说自然更吸引人。
All right. So yes, letting go. So the minimalist delegation and the second point is actually related to that. That is the, in a sense, letting go. Quick creative collaborations is the second one. I only have three things. It's minimalist delegation, quick creative collaborations, and then physical reboot, which is pretty straightforward to me. Again, it's simple, but not always easy. We have getting to my physical reboot here. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to talk about it.
好的。所以是的，放手吧。所以极简委托和第二点实际上是相关的。也就是说，在某种意义上，是要放手。快速创意协作是第二点。我只有三件事，就是极简委托，快速创意协作，然后是实体重启，对我来说相当直接明了。再次强调，虽然简单，但并不总是容易。我们在这里讨论我要进行的实体重启。是的，没错。我们将要谈论它。
So quick creative collaborations. This is an area where you have seen me actually kick the tires quite a bit in the last year with Cock Punch, which by the way, there's a ton coming with that, which is going to be a big surprise to a lot of people, but I have done a number. I cock punch. We know it's real quick here. Bye, NFTs, I'm Farah's Cock Punch. That's right. Hashtag. Hashtag to the moon. No, not financial advice. Jesus. That was AI talking. I didn't say that. In the process, I mean, using this NFT project way back in the day, which is when it launched in December of 2022, I guess, as a vehicle through which to do creative experiments, right, an emergent long fiction, that was kind of the whole point.
如此迅速的创造性合作。在过去的一年中，你看到我在Cock Punch上大量尝试和实践，顺便说一下，有很多即将推出的项目，会给很多人带来惊喜，我已经做了很多。我是Cock Punch。我们知道这很快。拜拜，NFTs，我是Farah's Cock Punch。没错。标签。标签飞向月球。不是金融建议。天哪。这是AI在说话，不是我说的。在这个过程中，我使用这个NFT项目作为一个创造性实验的工具，这是在2022年12月推出时的一个新兴长篇小说的方式，那基本上就是整个目标。
I've walked the talk in the sense that since then, and a lot of this has been invisible, but it will soon be visible. I've done creative sprints in, say, upstate New York with some of the top D&D and magic, the gathering artists, I should say, people who have done amazing iconic work for those brands. Yeah. Doing character design and concept that you, it was so much fun. It was so much fun.
我在某种意义上不仅说了话，实际上还行动起来了，虽然其中有很多都是看不见的，但很快就会变得明显。举个例子，我曾经与一些顶级的D&D和魔术风云的艺术家一起在纽约州北部进行过创意冲刺，他们为这些品牌做过非常出色的标志性作品。是的，我做过人物设计和概念设计，这太有趣了，非常有趣。
I have had this narrative that I'm a better I see, right, individual contributor, better as a solo operator, and that in some sense, I think because I've heard from some publishers and so on that I'm a bit of a problem author because I'm very, very, very unwilling to compromise quality. I'm unwilling to compromise quality and I'm very meticulous. And so if somebody's not on that same page, I'm a problem. And so I developed this narrative that I was just prickly and difficult and didn't play well with this. How much did that do you think is true? Have you ever done a 360 review?
我一直觉得自己是一个更好的个体贡献者，更适合独自行动，某种程度上，我觉得自己因为出版商等人对我有点问题原作者的意见，因为我非常非常非常不愿意妥协质量。我不愿意妥协质量，我非常细致入微。所以如果有人不在同一条船上，我就成了一个问题。所以我形成了这样一个看法，我只是一个脾气古怪、难以相处的人。你认为这个看法有多少是真实的？你有没有做过360度评估？
I have done a 360 review. The feedback doesn't usually, I wouldn't say it supports that narrative. And in this particular case, gather all these folks had some writers as well, which I thought was going to be harder than the art side because I can, I can step back and say, you are all much better at art than I am, but I have an identity as a writer. And it was great. I had two writers, three artists, and had an absolute blast. The output was spectacular, which I haven't made public yet. And that emboldened me to do more and more experiments. And so I can't talk too much about it right now. But I am actually working on my first book project in seven years, eight years. And I'm doing it with a collaborator, which I thought I would never do in a million years.
我进行了一个360度评估。反馈通常并不支持那个说法。在这种特殊情况下，我还召集了一些作家，我原以为这比艺术方面要难，因为我可以退后一步说，你们在艺术方面比我更擅长，但我在写作方面有自己的身份。这非常棒。我找来了两个作家，三个艺术家，过得非常愉快。成果非常出色，但我还没有公开。这让我更加有信心去做更多实验。所以现在我不能说太多。但是我实际上正在进行我七八年来的第一本书的项目。而且我是和一个合作者一起做，之前我想都不敢想。
Wait, you gotta give us a little more fiction, nonfiction, nonfiction. This is this is OG TF style. This is five, no five hour, but very dense hyper tactical. I'm not dense, like very rich. In other words, it's not a bunch of fluff. I'm not turning a blog post into a 300 page book, right? Like, you're going to want to tell us what it is. I can't. I can't. Can you give me like a genre? I can't really give you a genre. What I was cooking book again. It's not I got I think everybody got their fill of cooking with that. I'm very proud of that book, but holy shit, that almost killed me. No, I'm not doing that again.
等一下，你得给我们更多虚构、非虚构、非虚构的东西。这就是原创TF风格。它是五个小时，但非常浓缩且超级战术。我的意思是，它不是一堆废话。我不会把一篇博客文章变成一本300页的书，对吧？像，你要告诉我们它是什么。我不能。我不能。你能给我一个类别吗？我真的不能给你一个类别。再次就是那本烹饪书。我觉得每个人都对那本书的烹饪得到了满足。我为那本书感到非常自豪，但天啊，那几乎要了我的命。不，我不会再做那种事了。
I also not making the foolish decision to say to myself, you know what I should do? You know, it would be fun is for me to do 30 to 50% of my own photography for a 700 page cookbook. Don't do that. Now, archery. If you're not a photographer, don't do that. It is so much work. Oh my God. I really respect to the photographers out there. I underestimated that one. You dodged the archery question. It is an archery book. It's not an archery book. I'm I'm planning on doing more archery. That is part of the physical reboot. Okay.
我也没有做出愚蠢的决定，对自己说：“你知道我应该做什么吗？你知道，对我来说会有趣的是，我自己为一本700页的烹饪书拍摄30到50%的照片。”不要这样做。现在，说到射箭。如果你不是摄影师，不要这样做。这实在是太辛苦了。天啊。我真的很尊重那些摄影师。我低估了那一点。你回避了射箭的问题。这是一本射箭书吗？这不是一本射箭书。我计划做更多的射箭。这是身体重新启动的一部分。好吧。
But the the quick creative collaborations, this book is going to be about I would say how to find the essential and ignore the trivial. That's the very broad strokes. I am collaborating on writing, which I thought I would never do. It is going better than I ever possibly could have imagined. And it has opened the floodgates for me to think about what other collaborations I could pursue, screenplays, animation, television, who knows. But I've realized that if I am paired with someone who really gives a shit about quality and cares about being really proud of their work, I'm totally fine.
除了快速的创意合作之外，这本书将关注如何找到重要的事情而忽略琐碎的事情。这是一个非常宽泛的概述。我正在合作撰写这本书，这是我以前从未想过的事情。事实证明，这个合作进行得比我想象中的好。它为我打开了思考其他合作可能性的闸门，比如编剧、动画、电视等。但我意识到，如果我与真正注重质量并对自己的工作感到非常自豪的人合作，我完全没问题。
I can collaborate really well with those people. They just have to have really high standards. And I'm excited to do more of that. So the the screenplay side and like the TV and animation is particularly interesting to me. So becoming more adept with a format like a screenplay. And the format itself has intimidated me. And I feel like I just need to be locked in a room with someone really good for two weeks and be like, you cannot leave until you have something to ship. It can be a rough draft, but it has to be pretty much ready. And I think it's doable. So the quick creative collaborations is something that I'll be doing more of.
我能与那些人真正合作得很好。他们只需要有非常高的标准。我对此感到非常兴奋，愿意做更多的合作。所以剧本方面以及电视和动画对我来说特别有趣。因此，对剧本这样的格式变得更加熟练是非常令人激动的。但是我对这种格式本身感到有些害怕。我觉得我只需要和一个非常出色的人呆在一个房间里两个星期，直到有成品才能离开。它可以是一个草稿，但必须基本就绪。我认为这是可行的。所以快速的创意合作是我将要做更多的事情。
And then last on the physical reboot, it's I have been such a piglet in the last month. And I'm sick. That's a T H I C C folks, I have I'm not in terrible shape, but I am planning on continuing to be a little piggy for Christmas in the holidays. I'm gonna be home with family. And like I love I love butter cookies. I love gingerbread cookies. I'm not this is kind of like you not committing to your three months free birthday. That would be stupid. Yeah. So I'm going to be spending January, February in really intense outdoor training and skiing and ski touring and so on. So I'm not worried about burning off what I'm accumulating because that's gonna happen, especially at high altitude. I'm gonna try and visit you, by the way. Awesome. January. That would be fantastic. So the physical reboot is is up there. And I'm optimistic about that because on the internal level, meaning biomarkers and so on, almost every biomarker is the best that it's been in like a decade.
然后最后是关于身体重启的事情，我在过去的一个月里真是一个小猪。而且我还生病了。天呐，我真是胖啊，虽然我体形还不算太糟糕，但我计划在圣诞节和假期期间继续当一个小猪。我会和家人待在一起。我喜欢黄油曲奇，喜欢姜饼曲奇。这就像你不答应你的三个月免费生日一样。那太愚蠢了。是啊。所以我打算在一月和二月进行非常激烈的户外训练，滑雪和滑雪探险等。所以我不担心会燃烧掉我积攒下来的脂肪，因为那是会发生的，尤其是在高海拔地区。顺便说一下，我打算过来探望你。太棒了。一月份那将会很棒。所以身体重启进展顺利。而且我对此持乐观态度，因为从内部层面来看，如生物标志物等，几乎每个生物标志物都达到了十年来的最佳水平。
Wow. After the last year. That is not me. That sounds amazing. Yeah. And some of that has been certainly physical practice exercise. A lot of that has been dietary since I was your APOB. The best it's ever been. Hello. I can't recall offhand. Okay. It's with with 20s of 30s. I mean, it's within the aggressive atia. Yeah. Target range. STA, ALT fine. Oh, yeah. Those are always fun. I'm assisting always good. I'm assisting to always fun. Okay. Yeah. My my liver and so I'm sitting here issues then. What was that? What are your issues? What did you correct in your blood?
哇，过去一年真是不可思议。那不是我原来的样子。听起来太神奇了。是的，其中一部分是通过身体锻炼来实现的。许多方面是通过我改变饮食习惯来实现的，因为我有一个类似于你的问题。这是我有史以来最好的状态。你好。我现在不能记起来了。好吧。那个时候我20多岁到30多岁。我的饮食习惯非常规律。对，就在理想范围之内。血液中的STA和ALT都正常。哦，是的。这些总是令人愉快的。我也倒是习惯了。好吧。是啊。我的肝脏问题出现了。那是什么问题？你的血液状况有什么变化吗？
There are a couple of things that have corrected. So I have historically high uric acid levels. But you're not all pure and all then. I'm not an alpyr and all because I had a reaction to it, which can be very dangerous. Yes, it can. So I'm on your something called your loric, which is fine. And it's actually a better cleaner drug. I think it is people can. Yeah. There's a bunch of debate around it because there were some smaller studies that were arguably poorly designed that did some type of head to head and it got poo-pooed. But you loric for me is a good option. Not medical advice. Talk to your fucking doctor, please. I don't play one on the internet. In addition to that, that's from me, by the way, you know that. That's your meat intake. No, it's not. Are you sure? Yes. Because typically uric acid, you know, they used to call it the king's disease, right? Because it causes gout and it was from like wine and meat and fats. It's considered a disease of apples.
有几件事情得纠正一下。所以我的尿酸水平历史上很高。但并不是全部都是这样的。我并不是完全不好，因为我对此有反应，这可能非常危险。是的，确实如此。所以我在服用一种叫做洛尔酮的药物，这个药物是可以的。实际上它是一种更好更清洁的药物。我认为人们应该能够接受。是的。有一系列关于它的争论，因为有一些较小规模的研究被认为设计不当做了一些左右对比，结果被忽视了。但对我来说，洛尔酮是一个不错的选择。不是医疗建议。请与你的该死的医生沟通。我可不是在网上扮演医生。除此之外，这是我自己说的，你知道的。还有就是你的肉食摄入。不，不是这样。你确定吗？是的。因为通常尿酸，你知道，他们过去称之为国王的病，对吧？因为它会引发痛风，并且通常与酒、肉和脂肪有关。它被认为是一种与苹果有关的疾病。
Okay. So the wine is more interesting. So yes, people associate it with, if I'm not mistaken, purines and it gets associated there for with protein intake also. But there's a blog post, I it's easy to forget. I have a thousand plus blog posts, which actually bridged the books to the podcast. It's easy to forget that connective tissue with a thousand plus blog posts. One of them is called something like the hidden chapter from Good Calories, Bad Calories, Good Calories, Bad Calories, Book, Great Book, Tom's Gary, Tom's Gary, Tom's Gary, Tom's and one of the chapters that ended up on the cutting room floor was about fructose and how it is anti right, which also ties into uric acid.
好的。所以这个酒更有趣。是的，人们将其与尿酸相关联，并且还与蛋白质摄入有关。但有一篇博客文章，很容易忘记。我有一千多篇博客文章，实际上将书与播客联系起来。很容易忘记这千篇以上的博客文章所连接的东西。其中一篇名为《好卡路里，坏卡路里》的隐藏章节，这是一本很棒的书，作者是汤姆·加里。其中一个被删除的章节是关于果糖的，以及它如何抗炎，这也与尿酸有关。
Yes. So what I have seen in myself at least, it doesn't matter if I am carnivore diet, vegan, fasting, whatever dietary liver I try to pull, uric acid is high. It just does not matter. And that's also hereditary. This one's in my family. The other constellation of issues are all cardiac, like lipid profile related. Also hereditary dietary intervention with the exception of one thing that I'll mention. Are you going to statin? I'm not on a statin.
是的。至少在我自己身上看到的是，无论我采用什么饮食方式，无论是食肉者饮食、素食主义，还是禁食，我都会高尿酸。这是无关紧要的。而且这也是遗传的。这个在我家族中有出现过。其他的问题都与心脏有关，比如与血脂有关的问题。这也是遗传的，除了一件事我会提到的。你在吃他汀类药物吗？我没有在服用他汀类药物。
Okay. Well, your book is fine. Yeah. But just to be clear, so I there are different reasons that your lipid profile can be out of whack in my particular case. And I might be able to put something in the show notes as a resource. There are sophisticated labs or companies that will run labs that sort of find slice a lot of this. Boston heart. I think it's Boston heart. Yeah. And then you need someone to interpret the tea leaves, obviously, in which case you need a very competent doctor.
好的。嗯，你的书不错。是的。但是为了明确一下，在我的情况下，你的脂质代谢可能出现不正常的原因有很多。我可以在节目备注中提供一些资源。有一些先进的实验室或公司会运营实验室，对这些进行详细分析。波士顿心脏（Boston Heart）是其中之一。是的。然后你需要一个能解读这些结果的专业医生，这当然需要一个非常有能力的医生。
In my case, I'm a cholesterol hyper absorber. More accurately, I'm a sterile hyper absorber, which means I can also absorb a lot of sterols from say plant matter, which is why automatically, if you reduce meat or eliminate meat, it doesn't mean that your cardiac and lipid profile will improve. And you actually see a lot of folks for which it goes the opposite direction, because they end up consuming a lot more refined carbohydrates. Their fasting glucose goes up and they end up with a whole host of issues, in some cases associated with fructose, right? Like, Oh, agave an actor, brilliant. Well, maybe not so brilliant.
在我的情况下，我是一个胆固醇超吸收者。更准确地说，我是一个骨质疏松超吸收者，这意味着我也可以从植物物质中吸收大量的固醇，这就是为什么自动地，如果你减少或者完全消除肉类，这并不意味着你的心脏和脂质指标会改善。事实上，你会看到很多人的情况恰恰相反，因为他们最终摄入了更多的精制碳水化合物。他们的空腹血糖水平上升，出现了一系列问题，有些问题可能与果糖有关，对吧？比如，哦，龙舌兰是个绝佳选择，实际上或许并不是那么好。
And for that reason, in my case, I'm taking a zetamibe, actually, I'm taking something called Nexlazette, which is absurdly expensive. Welcome to the United States, in this case, but it's a combination of a zetamibe and something called Bempedoic acid. A zetamibe very well researched, pretty well understood, Bempedoic acid, a newer, a newer player on the scene, but very interesting. And the combination of those two plus the euloric are what got a number of biomarkers of concern, not crazy. And I've done not only the usual cardiac calcium scores, which are helpful, but incomplete in a lot of ways. I've also done angiograms, which you do not want to do willy-nilly all the time, but I wanted to see if there were any precursors to any issues.
因此，在我这种情况下，我正在服用一种叫做Nexlazette的药物，实际上，它非常昂贵。欢迎来到美国，在这种情况下，这是一种包含zetamibe和一种叫做Bempedoic acid的组合药物。zetamibe已经经过了非常充分的研究，相当被了解，Bempedoic acid是一种比较新的药物，但非常有趣。这两种药物加上euloric的组合是为了解决一些令人担忧的生物标志物问题，但并不是非常严重的问题。我除了做了常规的心脏钙化分数测试，这对了解问题有帮助但还存在不完整性。我还做了血管造影，这种测试并不是随便都要做的，但我想看看是否存在任何潜在的问题前兆。
So far, so good. In my particular case, those things plus reducing saturated fat intake, makes a difference. All my numbers, it makes a difference. So in my case, it would be a bad idea for me to hit the MCT smoothies. So bulletproof coffee, bad idea for me. Also my MCT, I don't know if it is a TU, but it. Disaster pants, risk goes up. Yeah. Risk goes up by about 10x. Yeah. If you're like running the bathroom with the MCT oil.
到目前为止，还不错。在我个人的情况下，这些事情加上减少饱和脂肪摄入量会有所不同。我的所有数据都有所改善。所以对我来说，喝中链甘油三酸酯冰沙是个糟糕的主意。对我来说，加入牛油咖啡也是个糟糕的主意。而且我也不知道MCT油是否对我有作用。如果使用MCT油的话，可能会导致腹泻。是的，腹泻的风险会增加约10倍。如果你使用MCT油后不断上厕所的话。
Yeah. If you are thinking to yourself, you know, in 2024, I want to shoot my pants more often, I would recommend a cock-on-sto-bade. Yeah, creatine, double espresso, and MCT oil, problem solved. Don't ask me how I know that, but you can guess. Don't have that right before you're driving to the airport for your international flight. Also, pro tip.
是的。如果你在心里想着，你知道，在2024年，我想更频繁地紧张兮兮，我会推荐一个混合饮料。是的，肌酸、双倍浓缩咖啡和中链脂肪酸油，问题解决。不要问我我是怎么知道的，但你可以猜想。在开车去机场搭乘国际航班前不要喝这个。此外，这是专业秘诀。
So the minimalist delegation, fast delegation, embracing reversible or low-cost possible mistakes, quick creative collaborations, and then physical reboot. And honestly, with the physical reboot, a lot of that is old news. The stuff that works, works, it's like kettlebell swings, zone two, ski-trang. Yeah, zone two, which I'll get to very naturally with what I'm going to be doing, and in terms of hiking and ski-trang and so on, basic, basic, basics. Like, I shouldn't say basics. The fundamentals are the fundamentals for a reason. Yeah. And just when in doubt, return to fundamentals. It's like weight training once a week. That is better than nothing once a week. And then the zone two, but also for me, it's like one or two sessions of very, very hard technical pilates to hit everything that I'm going to miss anyway, like medial glute and transverse abdominis. I'm getting back a lot of new years, by the way. Yeah. And that's about it. Do less than you think you can do. If some of your goals are around physical reboot or recomposition, set the bar where you are sure you can clear it. Yeah.
因此，极简派代表团、快速代表团、接受可逆性或低成本可能的错误、快速创造性合作，然后进行身体重启。坦白说，身体重启的大部分都是老掉牙的新闻。有效的东西就是有效的，就像壶铃摆动、二区心率、滑雪训练等。是的，二区心率，我会在我要做的事情中自然而然地达到，并且在徒步旅行和滑雪训练等方面，基础、基础、基础。不应该说基础知识。基本原理是有原因的基本原理。是的。当你犹豫不决时，回归基本原理。就像每周进行一次训练一样。这比一个星期一次都不做要好。还有二区心率，对我来说也是如此，像一个或两个非常艰苦的技术性普拉提训练，以弥补我无法达到的部分，比如股内侧肌和腹横肌。顺便说一下，我正在恢复很多新年计划。是的。大致就是这样。要做的少于你认为你能做的。如果你的目标是身体重启或改变体型，将标准设定在你确信能达到的程度上。是的。
Right. So I wanted to talk to you real quick about, you mentioned the physical body reboot. One of the things that all of my physicians, bougie, say all my physicians, my primary care physician, tell us President Obama, has been concerned about is I have slightly elevated blood pressure. And it's not to the point where I should have it treated with medicine. But there's breathing exercises you can do. There's a device called Respirate, which Peter Tia recommends. I don't know. Yeah, it's fantastic. It hooks around your chest. It's like a strap. And then you put in some ear pods that are connected to this device and it walks you through a series of breathing exercises, and it's clinically proven to lower your blood pressure. So Tia recommends that as kind of first line defense for a slightly elevated blood pressure.
好的。所以我想快速和你谈谈，你提到了身体重新启动的问题。我的所有医生，我的主治医师，他们都告诉我，奥巴马总统也很关心，我有轻度升高的血压。虽然还没有需要用药来治疗的程度，但是有一些呼吸锻炼可以做。有一个叫做Respirate的设备，Peter Tia推荐过。我不知道，对，它很棒。它是一个绕在胸部的带子，然后你需要戴上连接到这个设备的耳塞，它会带你进行一系列的呼吸锻炼，临床证明可以降低血压。所以Tia推荐这作为轻度升高血压的首选防线。
There is a device that is approved in the UK and the EU, and it's called Actia in its horrible name. What is Actia? It's a system for the Tia. Yeah. So it's AKKTIA. I'm wearing it on my wrist right now. So if you're watching the video version, you can see this thing is smaller than the smallest fit bit. It's super tiny. The battery life is five days. It does every hour blood pressure monitoring. It's clinically like proven accurate. And Tia is testing it right now in his lab with his folks there. It is not approved in the US. So what I had to do is I bought it online. First, I got a VPN. I proxied into the website to make it look like I was in the UK. And then I bought online, shipped it to a friend in the UK who sent it to me in the States. I then created a fake iCloud account in the UK with a fake email address and VPN to act like I was in the UK on a separate phone that I had not sent in like one of my older iPhones. And then I was able to get the app installed through the UK App Store because it's not available in the US App Store and got it to work. So technically this is not legal in the United States. But it's, you know, I'm actually monitoring it and the breathing exercises are helping.
有一种设备在英国和欧盟都获得了批准，它叫作Actia，听上去可怕。那么，Actia是什么？它是一种用于Tia的系统。是的，所以它就叫作AKKTIA。我现在戴在手腕上。所以如果你正在观看视频版本，你会看到这个东西比最小的Fitbit还要小。它非常微小。电池续航时间是五天。它每小时监测血压。已经被临床证明是准确的。Tia正在他的实验室和他的团队一起测试它。它在美国尚未获得批准。所以我只能在网上购买。首先我买了一个VPN。我使用VPN访问网站，让它看起来像我在英国。然后我在网上购买，把它寄给在英国的一个朋友，再由朋友寄给我在美国的地址。然后我在英国创建了一个虚假的iCloud账户，用一个虚假的邮件地址，通过VPN模拟我在英国，在我没有提供给他们的其中一部旧手机上安装了这个应用程序。然后我成功在英国的应用商店中下载并使用它，因为它在美国的应用商店中不可用。所以从技术上讲，这在美国是不合法的。但是，你知道的，我实际上正在监测它，而且呼吸练习对我有帮助。
High salt intake combined with water is huge. If you have a salty steak or anything, like I can notice like just like when we remember when we first got into CGM's you were way before I was but into continuous glucose monitors, you got me into them and you would be surprised because you was there and you'd be like, oh, banana doesn't do anything. And some people banana shoots you through the roof, right? Or rice for me. Oh my god, through the roof. I don't know about you, but rice for me is a huge offender. Rice affects me less than it affects you, but it affects a lot of folks.
高盐摄入加上水是非常重要的。如果你吃了一块咸牛排或其他东西，就像我能注意到的那样，就像我们记得我们第一次使用连续葡萄糖监测器时一样，你比我早进入了这个领域，你让我开始使用它们，你会很惊讶因为你在那里并且你会说，噢，香蕉对我没影响。但是对有些人来说，香蕉会让血糖飙升，对吧？或者对我而言是大米。天哪，猛烈上升。我不知道你怎么样，但对我来说，大米是一个很大的罪犯。大米对我影响较小，但它确实影响很多人。
Yeah. Footnote in a previous episode, we talked about the rice cooker, the rice cooker, which drains out the water, which dramatically reduces the glycemic response. Yeah. But back to our schedule program. Yeah, we can link that link down the show notes as well. But this for me has been like, okay, I just had a salty meal. Now let me chug a bunch of water along with that meal. And actually, I will notice a difference. I do not get into those, what they call like the high orange levels of blood pressure just by my water consumption. So meaning you help or hurt by drinking water. Drinking water. And there's evidence of back this up, which he's happy on the podcast. I've talked about this. But anyway, it's another device that I hope not going with a submitted to the FDA. Hope is that we'll have this device approved in the States here. I don't know, next six months to a year. So we'll see.
是的。在之前的一集中，我们谈到了电饭煲。电饭煲可以排出水分，从而大大降低血糖反应。是的。但是回到我们节目的主题。在节目注释中，我们也会提供相关链接。但是对我来说，这就像是，好的，我刚刚吃了一顿咸的饭菜，现在让我来喝一大杯水。实际上，我会注意到一些不同。仅仅通过喝水，我就不会出现所谓的高血压橙色警戒级别。所以喝水会对你起到帮助还是伤害。喝水。有证据支持这一点，他在播客中也提到过。但是无论如何，希望这是另一个我希望能够提交给FDA并在美国得到批准的装置。希望在未来的六个月至一年内能够实现。我们拭目以待。
Very cool. Anything else on the physical reboot side? I mean, the three months with no booze, I think it's going to be if you can do it, no offense, it'll be a revelation, I think. It's going to be amazing. Speaking of it, you don't, it looks like you're not a big fan of your own tequila. I just know I'm not really drinking any. So first of all, no, I mean, if you don't like it, it's just salam in its food. It's also, we started recording a three p.m. So usually I'm not a three p.m. drinker. But you know what, I want to be him dead by seven. So it'll be, you know, when, oh, she's okay. So, you know, since since we're going, we're just checking back into the home anyway, where they're going to put our socks on and put us to bed. No problem. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Dude, let's retire at the same retirement home. That'd be so fun. That'd be so much fun. Yeah. I'm going to say. Cheers, man. Cheers. And so let's talk about.
非常酷。在身体上还有其他的改革吗？我的意思是，三个月不喝酒，如果你能做到的话，不冒犯的意思，我觉得这将是一个启示。这将是非常棒的。说到这个，你好像不太喜欢自己的龙舌兰酒。我只是知道我自己不太喝酒。首先，如果你不喜欢，那没关系，那是食物搭配的问题。而且，我们是下午三点开始录音的。我通常不是下午三点喝酒的人。但你知道吗，我希望七点之前就醉倒。所以，你知道，在我们回到家的时候，他们会给我们穿上袜子，然后让我们上床睡觉。没问题。是的。嗯。好吧，伙计，我们一起去养老院退休吧。那会很有趣的。那会非常有趣。是的。我要说，干杯，伙计。干杯。那让我们来谈谈其他的事情。
Sorry. I was enjoying taking breaks from stuff because I have kind of a wild story, which I don't think we've talked about at all. I have number of wild stories. Oh, yeah. I got one big one for today. You have a big one too. And I think these are going to be interrelated in a sense. I'll piggyback half of it after what I believe you're going to share.
抱歉。我一直在享受休息，因为我有一个很疯狂的故事，好像我们还没有完全谈论过。我有许多疯狂的故事。哦，是的，今天我有一个很大的故事。你也有一个很大的故事。而且我认为这些故事在某种程度上会有联系。我会在你分享之后继续讲述其中一部分。
But I took a month off of caffeine, anything caffeinated, which was the first cold turkey, which was the first time I've done that's probably I would have to imagine since I was what 16. I mean, it's been forever. Let me ask you a good idea. Why would you do that cold turkey? Why not just do like, Oh, I have a cup of coffee today and then maybe a quarter cup a few days later, like why go? This is like the extreme temp. Well, did you get headaches? It's extreme. Yeah, I got headaches. But but it was during a period where I could, you have no, I didn't use Viking. I knew that I could accept the headaches. And I had a period of time where there really was a low cost where like professionally, I was taking three to four weeks off the grid. And I knew that I had a grace period where I can sustain it.
但是我戒除咖啡因和任何含咖啡因的东西一个月，这是我第一次彻底戒除，我想这可能是从16岁以来第一次了。我的意思是，好像已经有好几年了。让我问你一个好主意，为什么你要这样彻底戒除？为什么不只是像，哦，今天我喝一杯咖啡，然后几天后再喝四分之一杯，为什么要这么极端呢？是的，这很极端。是的，我头疼。但是这是在一个期间，我可以接受头疼。而且我有一个时间段，真的成本很低，我专业上有三到四个星期没有接触外界。而且我知道我有一个宽限期，可以维持下去。
So I did effectively no caffeine, no alcohol. And I suppose the most important other sex, no sex, no ejaculation, which is sweet and talk about that. That's pretty easy. The the harder one is I did nothing sweet. So not just containing sugar, but nothing sweet. So anything that has an artificial sweetener was out, would you consider this tequila sweet? I would not consider this tequila sweet. And there is there is a bit of subjectivity for a lot of it. That's what notes to it. Like it's, yeah, it's got some floral notes to it. But by the kind of letter of the law, I wouldn't consider this subjectively to be sweet. But for instance, any kind of juice out, any type of sweetener, of course, out, let's just say different types of plantains. If they are sweet to the taste, they're out sweet potatoes out. And is that hard for you? That that's not hard for me. It doesn't seem hard. But let's just extend this. Almost every toothpaste has sorbitol or some kind of crap in it that is a sweetener. So no brush your teeth for two weeks. I brush my teeth with sodium bicarb, just baking soda. I brush my teeth with that for a handful of weeks. And what you also realize is in the US, or in this case, when I went to Korea, if you ask people if A, B or C has any added sugar, there is sugar or some type of sweetener in almost everything that you come across. That was interesting. It was challenging because it's severely limited what I could eat. But the caffeine was an amazing experience.
所以我完全没有咖啡因，没有酒精。我认为最重要的是与性行为无关，没有性生活，没有射精，这是令人愉快的话题。这非常容易。更困难的是我没有吃任何甜食。所以不仅仅是含糖的东西，而是一点甜食都没有。所以任何含有人工甜味剂的东西都被排除在外，你认为龙舌兰算是甜的吗？我认为龙舌兰不算甜。这其中有一些主观性。它有一些花香味，但按照规定，我主观地认为它不算甜。但比如说果汁、糖类甜味剂都是被排除的，比如说不同类型的大蕉，如果它们有甜味，也是被排除的，甜土豆也是被排除的。这对你来说难吗？对我来说不难。看起来不难。但我们来推广一下。几乎所有的牙膏中都含有山梨醇或其他一些甜味剂的垃圾。所以两周内别刷牙。我用碳酸氢钠，就是小苏打刷牙。我用它刷牙几个星期。你还会发现在美国，或者说我去韩国的时候，如果你问人们某件东西是否添加了糖，几乎无论你遇到什么都会添加糖或其他类型的甜味剂。这是有趣的。这很具有挑战性，因为它严重限制了我的饮食。但是停止咖啡因的经历是一次令人惊奇的体验。
Now, I alluded to this a little bit earlier. I'm back on the sauce over the last week, week and a half, which I regret, number one. And I'm paying a lot for like there are costs I can explain. Is it asleep? So let me back up and I'll just give you the punch line.
现在，我稍早时涉及到了这个问题。在过去的一两周里，我又开始依赖酒精，这是我后悔的第一件事。而我也因此付出了很多代价，我可以解释其中的开销。你在睡觉吗？所以让我回到之前的内容，我只想给你个结论。
Tell us why you did this to begin with because you didn't mention that. There wasn't a New Year's resolution. Why? Yeah. So the reason I did, it started because I was in South America doing a bunch of weird stuff and there were restrictions. And then I just extended everything. But weird stuff, psychedelic stuff. Yes, psychedelics. Okay. Which will tie into a part of my strange story later.
告诉我们你一开始为什么这样做，因为你没有提到这个。你没有一个新年计划。为什么呢？嗯。所以我之所以这样做，是因为我当时在南美洲做了一些奇怪的事情，有一些限制。然后我就一直延续了一切。但是奇怪的事情，指的是迷幻的事情。是的，迷幻剂。好的。这将与我后来的奇怪经历联系在一起。
But I hadn't done the type of training I was doing in South America in probably five or six years. And so I took restrictions very seriously. I think that is important, in my opinion. And then I extended them all. And I wanted to see in part because I met someone who said they had stopped drinking anything caffeinated, cold turkey, because they felt like a loser because they become dependent on it. And they missed a really important ski day, like one of the first days of the season. And they're a really good skier. And they were with a group of people and they were the only, I believe they were the only person who skipped. And that day, they were just like no more. And to this day, like two years later, caffeine free. I agree, I lost something there. When I wake up in the morning and I have a cup of coffee, I can go skiing. Why did they miss skiing because they couldn't have coffee? Because they didn't have coffee that morning. And they were so tired that they felt like they couldn't do it. So they stayed on the ski lift instead of getting off, they just went around and went straight back down and called it a day.
但是在南美洲，我已经有五六年没有进行我正在做的那种训练了。所以我非常严格地限制自己。我认为这很重要，就我个人而言。然后我把这些限制都延长了。我之所以这样做，是因为我遇到一个人，他说他因为依赖咖啡因而感觉自己像个失败者，所以突然戒掉了所有带咖啡因的饮料。然后他错过了一个非常重要的滑雪日子，那是季节开始的其中一天。而他是一个非常好的滑雪者。他当时和一群人在一起，而他是唯一一个跳过的人。那一天，他就像再也不碰咖啡因一样。至今，已经两年没有摄入咖啡因。我同意，我在那里失去了些东西。当我早上醒来喝一杯咖啡时，我就可以去滑雪了。为什么他们因为喝不了咖啡而错过滑雪呢？因为那天早上他们没有喝咖啡，所以他们非常累，感觉自己无法做到。所以他们选择坐在滑雪缆车上，不下来，直接返回并结束了一天的滑雪。
And to their credit, the other one. I think I had the weather or something. But they were just like, this is fucking loser behavior enough. And they went to zero. That caught my attention because when you talk to someone, no offense to anyone who fits in this category. But let's just say if someone is a Mormon and they've never had caffeine, that's not my life. They've never had a hit of the sauce. I mean, although technically, there were grounds like Diet Coke instead of coffee, but we're not going to get into the weeds here. But if somebody hasn't had a taste of the delicious poison, there's so many things, there's so many things like this where it's like, okay, if you've had one significant other and you've never been out and about and like sampled the buffet of the world, like we can't really have, it's very hard to have an apples to apples talk about relationships. Like it's just, it's a different situation. Same with caffeine, but this person had been hitting the sauce for decades. And then they got off. And that was inspiring to me.
值得赞扬的是另一个人。我想可能是因为天气或其他什么。但他们就像是在说，这种行为够了，他们彻底戒掉了。这引起了我的注意，因为当你和某人交谈时，不是冒犯其他人，但就让我们假设某人是个摩门教徒，从未喝过咖啡因，那样的生活不是我的生活。他们从未尝过酒精的刺激。虽然从技术上讲，可以选择喝饮料代替咖啡，但我们现在不详细讨论这个问题。但如果有人从未尝过这种美味的毒药，有太多类似的事情，比如，如果你只有一个重要的另一半，从未外出体验过世界的多样性，那么我们很难在关系方面进行公平的比较。这是完全不同的情况。咖啡因也是一样，但是这个人已经戒酒几十年了。然后他们戒了。这对我来说是个鼓舞。
Then I had this restriction and I just extended it. And just to give the punchline, my sleeping issues that I've had for decades, every single one, just vanished. Best sleep of the last 20 years woke up wide awake every morning after the first, let's just call like a week and a half, had tons of energy and got super high volume of stuff done. And what I realized and the part of the reason to answer your meta question, why did I do all of these things? I was curious what my real baseline was. Like, what does real baseline look like? What is Tim untouched, unaffected by all these various supplements? That's another thing. I took a month off of all supplements. I only took my prescription meds like the Eluoroc and so on. Yeah, I got rid of all supplements and no deca or tesophan, no deca, no nothing. And I was very curious to reacquaint myself with what the sort of pure baseline Tim is. And it turns out baseline Tim does really well.
然后我有了这个限制，我只是将它加长了。简单来说，我几十年来一直存在的睡眠问题，每一个问题都消失了。过去20年里最好的睡眠，每天早上都醒得清醒，从第一个早晨开始，让我们称之为一周半左右，有充沛的精力，完成了大量的事情。而我意识到的，也是回答你的元问题的部分原因，为什么我要做所有这些事情呢？我很好奇自己真正的基准是什么样子的。就像，没有受到所有这些不同的补充剂影响，真正的基准是什么样子？这是另一件事。我停止了一个月的所有补充剂，只服用我处方药如Eluoroc等。是的，我放弃了所有的补充剂，没有去甲酮或色氨酸，没有任何东西。我非常好奇重新认识一下纯粹的基准Tim是什么样子的。结果发现，基准Tim表现得非常好。
And why go back then? Well, you got hungover. No, I didn't get hungover. I didn't get hungover. It was good after I hang over a little bit of lead juice. So I also, before I went to South America, I listened to an audiobook, which was called or is called the easy way to quit caffeine. And that is an extension of a brand that started with smoking. I think it's the easy way to quit smoking. And I know people who have literally multiple people who have listened to this, they have their last cigarette and they're done and they stop. So it's a little hokey, but that made an impact on me as well. I'll do that for January and write that down on my list. January, no, and now that I know I can do it, I'm definitely going to do it again.
那么为什么要回头呢？嗯，你喝醉了。不，我没有喝醉。我没有喝醉。我喝了一点铅汁后就好了。所以在去南美之前，我也听了一本有声书，叫做《戒掉咖啡因的简单方法》。这是一个以戒烟为起点的品牌延伸。我认识多个人亲历过这个方法，他们听完后戒烟了，彻底戒掉了。可能有点玩世不恭，但对我影响深刻。我会在一月份试一试，并把它写在我的清单上。现在我知道我能做到，我一定会再次尝试。
The reason that I got back on it, and this is, I'll actually add just a little bit of color.
我重新参与其中的原因是，而且这就是，我将添加一点点色彩。
The first is that there were days without caffeine where I would say to myself, I'm tired. I really want a cappuccino. But I realized, because I interrogated, I was like, well, I'm not allowed to have a cappuccino. Am I really tired? And I came to the conclusion that no, I wasn't actually tired. I just wasn't fucking wired. You see what I mean? Like my normal had become multiple coffees in the morning, and God knows what else. So I had taken as my baseline a default. I mean, wired sounds too negative, but like stimulated state. And when that was removed, the story that I conjured was I'm tired.
首先，有一些不喝咖啡因的日子，我会对自己说，我累了。我真的想要一杯卡布奇诺。但是我意识到，因为我进行了自我追问，我就像是在想，哦，我不能喝卡布奇诺了。我真的累吗？最后我得出结论，不，其实我并不真的累。我只是没有刺激得够猛烈罢了。你明白我的意思吗？我平时的生活模式已经变成了早上喝多杯咖啡，还有其他不知道多少东西。所以我以多杯咖啡作为基准。我的意思不是刺激得过于负面，而是激发的状态。而当这个状态被移除时，我就编造了一个故事，即我感到疲倦。
But when I was unable to have the cappuccino and I went on to record a podcast, podcast turns out great. I'm like, okay, let me revisit this. I wasn't tired. I was just calm. Interesting. Interesting.
但是当我无法喝到卡布奇诺，之后我继续录制播客时，播客最终效果很好。我心里想，好吧，我来重新审视一下。我并不累，只是很平静。有意思，有意思。
And why did I get back on coffee? Coffee for me, I've realized, is probably like alcohol for a lot of folks. And there's sometimes, I'm not going to lie. Look, let's be honest here. Like there are times I was like, I want to take the edge off. Sure. Have a drink. Yeah. Right. But more often, because I don't drink that much, I use coffee as like a security blanket.
为什么我又开始喝咖啡了？我意识到，对我来说，咖啡可能就像对很多人来说的酒一样。不得不说有时候，我不会撒谎。听着，我们诚实地说。有时候我会想要缓解紧张的感觉。当然，喝一杯酒。是的。没错。但更多的时候，因为我不怎么喝酒，我把咖啡当作一种安全毯。
When my life gets hit with something unpredictable or unpredicted and things seem a little out of control, or I'm not sure how I'm going to make it through something, like walking to the coffee shop in the morning and having that coffee, it's a life raft of consistency. We saw this during COVID, right? Where people would line up at Starbucks for three hours to get a coffee because it was like the one semblance of more balance. You know, and there's also a high to it. So it's like, also a high. So even though I realize intellectually that it's kind of productive, like when I am feeling as I have been for a host of reasons that I won't bore people with, but just gone through a pretty challenging week or two, my response to feeling a little anxious is to want coffee, even though it increases anxiety.
当我的生活遭遇到一些不可预测或未预料到的事情时，事情似乎有点失控，或者我不确定如何应对某件事情，比如早上去咖啡店喝咖啡，这成为了一种稳定的救生圈。我们在COVID期间经历过这种情况，对吧？人们会排队三个小时去星巴克买咖啡，因为这是一种更为平衡的象征。你知道，这也会带来一种高。所以，即使我理智地意识到这样做可能不太有效率，像我这一周或两周因为各种原因感到有些困扰，尽管我不想让人们觉得无聊，但我对于稍微感到焦虑就渴望喝咖啡，尽管这会增加焦虑感。
Now, are you a cos- Physiologically. This is one thing actually we've known to have a long time idea. I don't know the answer to this. I don't know that I have seen you do this. Are you an afternoon coffee guy at all? I don't know that I've seen you do matte maybe a little bit later, but I typically do not have coffee in the afternoon. Yeah. And I really try not to have caffeine in the afternoons, which I violated this week. So in the last like two days, I should say in the past seven days, I have violated that.
现在，你是一个长相-生理上的。实际上，这是我们长期以来一直知道的一件事情。我不知道答案。我不知道我见过你这样做。你下午喝咖啡吗？我不知道我看到你喝过咖啡，也许稍微晚一点，但是我通常下午不喝咖啡。是的。我真的尽量不在下午喝咖啡因，但这一周我违反了这个规定。所以在过去的两天里，我应该说在过去的七天里，我违反了这个规定。
And what I've realized, because I've run the end of one now, and there are a bunch of different variables. So I realize this is imprecise. It's not a perfect science, is that I can drink coffee and fall asleep. That's not the problem. But it disrupts my sleep architecture. I wake up after three days, very little time, three days of drinking caffeine. I wake up and I have circles under my eyes, like dark circles. Are you are you quantifying this in the sense of like, are you wearing an aura ring? Do you have any other data where you're looking at it? I'm not currently capturing the data with an aura ring, but I have in the past.
而我所认识到的是，因为我现在已经体验过其中一个尽头，有很多不同的变量。所以我意识到这是不精确的。这不是一门完美的科学，我可以喝咖啡然后入睡，这不是问题。但它会破坏我的睡眠结构。喝了三天咖啡，我醒来后，时间虽短，只有三天，但眼睛下面有黑眼圈。你是不是也在以某种方式来量化这个问题？你有没有使用光环戒指之类的数据来进行观察？我目前没有使用光环戒指来记录这些数据，但我以前用过。
Yeah, I've seen what it looks like. So I know that's the case. I'm falling asleep. My time in bed, if we're just looking at a clock is fine, but I'm waking up tired. I hate that. And then what do you want? You want another hit? Of course. You want more of the sauce. And there's a lot to be said for it. This is not to completely knock coffee. I don't think for the rest of my life, I'm going to be caffeine free. But now I have a better awareness of what my baseline looks like. So I can return to that.
是的，我知道它是什么样子。所以我知道就是这个情况。我要睡着了。如果只看钟表，我的睡眠时间还可以，但我醒来时感到疲倦。我讨厌这样。那么你想要什么？你想要再来一杯吗？当然。你想要更多调料。这方面有很多值得说的。这并不是说完全否定咖啡。我不认为在接下来的人生中我会完全戒掉咖啡因。但现在我对我的基准有了更好的认识。所以我可以回归到那个状态。
So let me tell you something crazy. This was before I met Dario. So I'm trying to go back in years now. So probably let's just call it 15 years ago. I gave up coffee for about six months, six months. Yeah. That's legit. Well, but I wasn't really that addicted to it. I was having like a cup every other day or whatever. And I went back. I remember I was living in San Francisco at a time and I went to Rachel coffee, which is fantastic coffee place. Great place. And I ordered a tall like single origin coffee. And I drank the whole thing when you go six months without coffee and you have a full cup of coffee, you feel high as a kite. I was like 10x what I feel today with a cup of coffee. Yeah. Because your body just like, I mean, it is a powerful drug when you've gone without it for a while. Super powerful.
所以让我告诉你一件疯狂的事。这是在我遇到达里奥之前的事情。所以我试着回到几年前。大概我们称之为15年前吧。我放弃了咖啡大约六个月，六个月。是的，真的。但其实我并不是那么依赖它。我只是每隔一天喝一杯或者其他什么。然后我又开始喝了。我记得当时我住在旧金山，我去了一个名叫Rachel的咖啡店，那里的咖啡很棒。我点了一杯高大的单品咖啡。我喝完整整一杯咖啡的时候，你经历了六个月没有喝咖啡，喝了一整杯，你会感觉像飞在空中一样高兴。我觉得比今天喝一杯咖啡的效果强了十倍。是的，因为当你有一段时间不喝咖啡后，你的身体就会感到像有了一种强大的药物。超级强大。
Do you have any sense of how long it takes to like get that back? Like how long have you done any research? To get what back? An initial like like childhood high of like the first cup of coffee. How long do you go without before you get back up? Yeah. Until you like, I don't know, I don't know.
你有没有意识到要花多长时间才能找回那种感觉？比如说你做了多长时间的研究了？找回什么？就像是小时候刚喝第一杯咖啡时的那种初期的喜悦感。你得在多长时间内才能重新获得那种感觉？是的，直到你像，我不知道，真的不知道。
I will say on the opposite end, which is what I thought you were asking. How long does it take to develop tolerance and experience with withdrawal symptoms? It is so fast. Oh, so fast. And one day, if you go without coffee, so fast, your coffee drinkers will be headaches. Yeah.
我会说相反的意思，这也是我认为你在问的。发展耐受性和经历戒断症状需要多长时间？非常快。哦，非常快。一天如果你不喝咖啡，那么很快你就会感到头痛，因为你习惯了喝咖啡。是的。
Well, I would say furthermore, if you stop drink coffee and I'm using coffee as a bit of scapegoat here, like I love coffee. But if you if you go without caffeine and then you get back on caffeine and you're on it for two or three days and then you stop again, my personal experiences, you are going to feel withdrawal symptoms. And that is unlike most other drugs. It is a powerful, powerful, powerful drug. Right? Like, I'm not recommending this, but hypothetically, if you were like smoked cigarettes for a few days and then stop, you're fine. Yeah. No problem. You're not going to have a headache the next day. But with caffeine, it is an incredibly powerful drug. And I think that's in part because it is often disrupting sleep architecture. That's my that's my vote, at least.
好吧，我想进一步说，如果你停止喝咖啡，我这里将咖啡作为一个替罪羊，因为我喜欢咖啡。但是，如果你停止摄入咖啡因，然后再重新开始喝咖啡，并持续两到三天，然后再次停止，根据我的个人经验，你会感到戒断症状。而且这与大多数其他药物不同，它是一种强大的、强大到极点的药物，对吧？比如，我并不推荐这样做，但假设你抽烟几天后又不抽了，你没问题。没问题，第二天你不会头痛。但对于咖啡因来说，它是一种非常强大的药物。我认为这部分原因是因为它经常破坏睡眠结构。至少这是我的观点。
One question for you. One of the things that I have yet to try that I've been really curious about is I know that there are cultures, I can't remember, I'm going to screw it up. I don't know if it's like an Inca or I can't remember exactly which culture it is from Mexico that did high dose chocolate, almost like a cow, like a cow ceremony where they drink like this like super purified cacao, like insane amounts of caffeine. And they like reach these kind of spiritual states. Have you ever heard anything about that? I haven't read reports, but I know that for instance, I want to say in some places in Mexico, certainly in Guatemala, you have cow ceremonies. I don't know. I was invited to one one time on cacao ceremony. So I don't know how much I don't know the historical record, right? I don't know how much of these things were used 100 years ago, 1000 years ago. There are there are many new practices that have created the narrative of age old use, for a veneer of credibility when in fact things were very different 1000 years ago. You have to imagine cacao was a cacao has been around for a while.
有一个问题要问你。有一件我一直很好奇但还没有尝试过的事情是，我知道有一些文化，我记不清楚了，可能会搞砸。我不确定是印加文化还是来自墨西哥的某个文化，他们会进行高剂量巧克力的仪式，就像喝牛奶一样，他们会喝下极度纯净的可可，含有很高的咖啡因。他们通过这种方式进入一种心灵层面。你听说过这方面的事情吗？我没看过相关报道，但我知道在一些墨西哥的地方，或许在危地马拉，会有巧克力仪式。我曾经也被邀请参加过一次可可仪式。所以我不知道历史记录是多少，不知道这些东西在100年前、1000年前是否有使用过。有很多新的做法创造了一个关于久经使用的叙述，给人以可信的外貌，而事实上1000年前的情况可能非常不同。你要想象可可已经存在很久了。
So in the case of cacao, my understanding is it contains theobromine, which in and of itself is a fascinating word. So theobroma, theo like theology, broma, food, food of the gods, theobromine, which is pharmacokinetically is very meaning. Just if you were to look at the graph of peak and half life and so on, it's quite different from caffeine is my understanding. Is that the vasodilator of the plant? What causes, because I know like cocovia, for example, are you familiar with that supplement? Yeah, it's like it's a cacao supplement from a large company, I believe. Yeah, from from Mars actually. But the crazy thing is, is like, I was not going to run to Patrick about this. And she has had one of her, I think it was her mother-in-law or something like that, high blood pressure takes cocovia, drops it down because of vasodilator, and is a big fan of it as well. And I've been showing cognitive improvements as well. Yeah, I'm not sure it very well could be the case. I mean, when you get the dose makes the poison, the dose also makes the transcendence for a lot of different plants. Yeah.
所以对于可可而言，我的理解是它含有可可碱，这个词本身就非常有趣。Theobroma中的theo类似于神学，broma则表示食物，可可碱意味着“神的食物”，药物动力学上的意义非常明确。如果你看一下峰值和半衰期等方面的图表，就会发现它与咖啡因非常不同，这就是我所了解的。那是植物的舒血管剂吗？是什么原因导致的？因为我知道像可可维亚这样的补充剂，你对它熟悉吗？是的，那是一个大公司的可可补充剂，我相信是从 Mars 公司出品的。而疯狂的是，我本来不打算与 Patrick 谈论这个问题。她的一个亲戚，我想是她的婆婆之类的人，患有高血压，服用可可维亚后，由于舒血管剂的作用，血压降低了，她也是可可维亚的忠实粉丝。而且我也在认知方面有所提升。是的，我不确定，很可能情况确实如此。就像剂量决定毒物一样，剂量也决定了许多不同植物的超越性能。
So in the case of cacao, I have experienced higher, let's call it higher dose cacao, and you can reach an ultra state for sure. I'm going to caveat what I'm about to say with the do not ever do this warning, but there, for instance, there are plants that at high enough doses are absolutely psychedelic, which I would never recommend because you can die, I'll repeat that, fatal risk. So do not, do not try this at home.
在可可豆的情况下，我曾经体验过更高剂量的可可豆，可以说是更高剂量的可可豆，你肯定可以达到一种极致状态。在此，我必须提醒大家，切勿尝试以下所说的事情，因为有些植物在超高剂量下会产生绝对的迷幻效果，但我绝不推荐这样做，因为会导致危险，我再强调一次，有致命风险。因此，请不要在家尝试此类行为。
But tobacco as an instance, as an example, has a very rich history in South America and elsewhere, but especially in South America, where high doses of juice have been consumed, you have to die. Every mode of administration you can imagine is has been done and is very common down there. There's a book by Johannes Wilbert, which is titled along the lines of tobacco and South American or tobacco in South American shamanism. It is very dense. It reads like a PhD dissertation. But when you consume pretty much through any route imaginable enough tobacco, you can experience a psychic experience. Can I tell you a story about this? I've had this.
但是烟草作为一个例子，在南美洲和其他地方都有着非常丰富的历史，尤其是在南美洲。在那里，人们摄入了高剂量的烟草汁液，会导致死亡。各种吸食方式都被尝试过，并且在那里非常普遍。有一本约翰内斯·威尔伯特的书，标题大致是关于烟草和南美洲或南美洲萨满教。这本书非常深奥，读起来就像一篇博士论文。但是当你通过几乎任何方式摄入足够量的烟草，你会有心灵体验。我可以给你讲一个关于这个的故事吗？我亲身经历过。
So I was in San Francisco at the time and they have, this was a call a decade ago, they have a bunch of chefs that are very experimental. I won't name this chef, but it was a one Michelin star chef that tried, that infused tobacco leaves into an alcohol. And you have to be insanely careful. If you look up online, like you said, if you put too many leaves in the infusion, you will have a lethal overdose of nicotine that will kill you. And so this chef knew what they were doing. I would never try this at home. They made me a bourbon infused tobacco cocktail. And I was like, it sounds interesting. I'll give it a shot. Hope you don't need to sleep anytime soon. No, I drank this one drink. And I'm like, having a good time getting a little chatty. Like, who is fun? And then do I get up to use the bathroom? Oh boy. And I swear to God, it felt like my feet were sinking into the ground as I was walking. Like I was walking down like to the stumps of my knees. Like I was like, my legs were like collapsing as I was walking. You're like, wait a minute. I was like, because I don't smoke tobacco at all or anything like that. And it like hit me like a ton of bricks. And I'm like, I am I a shit. Like it is a very potent substance. Like you go, especially for non smokers, you got to be really careful.
所以那个时候我在旧金山，他们有，这是十年前的事了，他们有一些非常实验性的厨师。我不会透露这个厨师的名字，但他是一位米其林星级厨师，尝试将烟草叶子浸泡在酒精中。你必须极其小心。如果你在浸泡中放入太多叶子，你可能会因尼古丁过量而丧命。所以这个厨师知道他们在做什么。我绝对不会在家里尝试这个。他们给我调了一杯经过烟草浸泡的波旁威士忌鸡尾酒。我觉得很有趣，就试了试。希望你不需要马上睡觉。不，我喝了这杯酒。我感觉很愉快，有点儿话痨。就觉得很有趣。然后我起身去洗手间。哦天呐。我发誓，感觉自己的脚像沉入地面一样，就好像我在走路时踩在膝盖以下的树桩上一样。我的腿在行走时好像开始崩溃。你会说，等等，我想因为我完全不吸烟或其他什么的。这种感觉突然袭来。就好像被一大块砖头砸中一样。我突然意识到这是一种非常强效的物质。尤其对于不吸烟的人来说，你必须非常小心。
So come in full circle. Right. So cacao powerful, fascinating plant sacred in a number of different cultures. Tobacco, be very careful, folks. It is powerful and potentially lethal. And then coming back to caffeine. It is the, as I understand it, the world's most commonly consumed psychoactive plant. Right? V is is is the number one tea and coffee. Yeah. And it has this place. I love my cup of coffee. Trust me. I had one this morning. And I think the exercise, if you can do it, not everyone can, but of rediscovering what your baseline is, like what you actually felt like when you were 12 or 15, right? Right. And this down so valuable. It is so valuable because I now know what that feels like. And I know that I can return to it as an adult.
所以走了个完整的圈子。对的。可可是一种强大而迷人的植物，在许多不同的文化中被视为神圣。至于烟草，大家一定要小心。它具有强大的力量，潜在的致命危险。然后再来谈咖啡因。据我了解，它是世界上最常被人摄入的致幻植物。对吧？V是茶和咖啡的首选。是的。它有它的存在价值。相信我，我喜欢喝杯咖啡。我今天早上就喝了一杯。我认为，如果你能够做到这一点的话，不是每个人都可以，重新发现你的基准是什么，就像你15岁或12岁时的真实感受，这是非常宝贵的。它是如此宝贵，因为现在我知道那种感觉是什么样的，我知道作为成年人我可以重新回到那种感觉。
Yes. That holds true to anything that you're doing that, you know, call it alcohol, any substance that you become dependent upon. Yeah. Right. It doesn't have to be just caffeine. It can be anything that you've like that you almost feel like you can't live without. Yeah. Sugar, carbs, yeah. Some activity. Traveling late night pizza. Yeah. Late night pizza. I mean, if you're a road warrior and you just travel all the time, because you say yes to everything, like okay, what does it feel like to sit at home? Yeah, if such a thing exists for you for one month, what does that feel like? Yeah. And if a bunch of weird stuff comes up, like maybe as Tara Brock would say, like the, you know, to the, to one sage, only one question matters. What are you unwilling to feel? Oh my God, I have to have around the podcast. That is one of my guests. I guess. Yeah. So if you haven't read it, folks, radical acceptance, which I owe Dardar, thanks for.
是的，无论你做什么，都能适用。你知道的，称其为酒精，任何你变得依赖的物质。是的。不仅仅是咖啡因，还可以是其他你觉得几乎不能没有的东西。对，糖，碳水化合物，对，还有一些活动，比如深夜旅行吃披萨。对，深夜披萨。我的意思是，如果你是一个经常旅行的勇士，因为你对每件事都说“是”，那么呆在家里是什么感觉？是的，如果对于你来说有一个月这样的事情存在，那感觉如何？对，如果有一些奇怪的事情出现，比如Tara Brock所说，对于一个圣人，只有一个问题很重要。你不愿意感受什么？天哪，我得在播客里找到这个。这是我的一个客人。是的，如果你还没有读过的话，大家可以看看《激进的接受》，我要感谢Dardar。
（注意：原文中出现了一些混乱的语句结构和用词，翻译时尽量保持其表达风格）
So if you don't know where is my wife, Daria, we call him Tim Tim. So which came about actually, let's give people like a real look into the archive. So Tim Tim came about because we were on a trip to China to drink Puerh tea all over the place, which was one of the weirder trips I've ever been on for a lot of reasons. We were in the Uno and province together and we don't know where we had some very strange experiences on that trip. drank a lot of tea, had a motley crew of people with us along for that ride. And there was another Tim on the trip. So there was a question of how do we keep the two of you separate and you came up with, I believe, Tim Tim. I mean, it was a collaborative kind of real time. That's how Tim Tim came about.
所以如果你不知道我的妻子Daria在哪里，我们称她为Tim Tim。所以实际上是这样，让我们给人们一个真实的了解档案的机会。所以Tim Tim的出现是因为我们一起去中国旅行，到处喝普洱茶，这是我参加过的最奇怪的旅行之一，有很多原因。我们一起去了云南省，我们不知道在那次旅行中经历了一些非常奇怪的经历，喝了很多茶，在旅途中还有一群各色各样的人。而旅行中还有另一个叫Tim的人。所以有个问题，我们该如何将你们两个区分开来，你想出了，我相信是Tim Tim。这是一个实时的合作过程，这就是Tim Tim的由来。
So Daria, who is neuroscientist by training, which is why I actually took the book, Radical Acceptance seriously, because at all due respect, I love Tara, love this book and a huge impact on me. But the title gave me an allergic reaction. I was like, Oh, God, another one of these like, I just, I just sound hand wavy. Okay, kumbaya, did you redo like, okay, I just can't do it. But the fact that Daria, who has one of the one of the lowest tolerances for bullshit, hand wavy stuff that I know of, the fact that she said she gained from it, gave me permission to dive into it, which then had a really big impact on me.
所以Daria是一个受过神经学训练的人，这也是为什么我真的认真对待了这本《彻底接受》的书，因为我对Tara非常喜爱，喜欢这本书，并对我产生了巨大的影响。但是这个标题让我产生了过敏反应。我当时就感到，哦，天哪，又是这些东西，就像，我只是觉得这太虚浮了。好吧，和睦相处，大家来重来，像，好吧，我就是无法接受。但是Daria，她可是我认识中最不能容忍假话、虚浮扯淡的人之一，她说从这本书中获益，这给了我深入研究的许可，然后对我产生了很大的影响。
So coming back though, if you feel like you are, you can't live without X, that is often a great signal, or at least a prompt to ask yourself, what might an experiment look like for two to four weeks to go without X? It's been super valuable for me. It's awesome. I wrote it down, no caffeine in January, I'm going, I'm serious. You know, I might double down do it with you. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. No calf. All right. Let's talk about my experiments, shall we? Yeah, let's do it. I'm excited. I'm excited about this because I also don't know the details. I know that. You saw the text messages. I saw some of the text messages and I was very curious. Okay.
所以回到主题，如果你觉得自己离不开X，那通常是一个很好的信号，或者至少是一个询问自己的提示，如果停止使用X两到四周，会是什么样的实验呢？对我来说这非常有价值。真的很棒。我已经写下来了，一月不喝咖啡，我会认真去做的。你知道的，我可能会加倍努力，和你一起做。让我们来做吧。好的。好的。不喝咖啡，没问题。好，我们来谈谈我的实验，好吗？好的，让我们来做吧。我很兴奋，因为我也不知道具体的细节。我知道。你看到了短信。我看到了一些短信，我非常好奇。好的。
So this is a big one. I'm pregnant. I'm pregnant. What was the one where I'm supposed to think I got pregnant? I can't remember the name. Yes, I know the mood. Basically that's, I have the same physique too.
这是一件大事。我怀孕了。我怀孕了。我应该以为自己怀孕的那个是什么事来着？我记不起来那个名字了。是的，我知道这种心情。基本上，我也有相同的身型。
So basically, you know, for people that know me or don't quite know me, like, you know, I've done a bunch of stuff in terms of being like an entrepreneur and an investor and these different things. And one of the hats that I put on, you know, a couple of years ago was dabbling in the world of Web3. And Web3 for those untrained, you know, it's cryptocurrency. It's decentralized internet. It is NFTs and art on the blockchain ownership, right? If 1.0 is read only internet, 2.0 is read right, 3 is actually owning a piece of what's on the plane.
所以基本上，你知道的，对于那些了解我或不太了解我的人来说，像你知道的，我在做企业家和投资者方面做了一些事情。几年前，我戴上了一顶帽子，涉足Web3的世界。对于那些没有接受过培训的人来说，Web3就是加密货币，去中心化的互联网，以及区块链上的NFT和艺术品所有权。如果1.0是只读互联网，2.0是可读写的互联网，那么3实际上是拥有飞机上所显示内容的一部分。
So it's a very exciting frontier and it's filled with a bunch of explorers that I would say are it's a small number of people in terms of people that are excited about digital art, call it, you know, 250,000 people or less. But it is, you know, a serious group of people that are enabling a new canvas to take form in front of us. And I believe in my heart of hearts that for all the bad press that we see about NFTs and all the scams and don't get me wrong, there's tons of that shit. There is something true about if you had to close your eyes and wake up in 20 years, will collectable digital art be a thing? Of course it will, right? Like, and the blockchain is a perfect, perfect place to like prove provenance, to prove scarcity. There's a lot of advantages there.
这是一个非常令人兴奋的前沿领域，充满了一群探险家，我想说他们在数字艺术方面仅占了很小一部分，可以称之为大概25万人或更少。但这是一个非常严肃的群体，他们正在为我们开辟一个新的画布。我内心深处坚信，尽管我们看到了很多涉及NFTs的负面报道，还有许多诈骗，但其中也有一些事实。如果闭上眼睛，在20年后醒来，可收藏的数字艺术是否会存在？当然会存在，是吧？而且区块链是一个完美的地方，可以证明艺术品的来源和稀缺性，有很多优势。
Long story short, you know, I launched something called Moonbirds, which was a PFP project. I remember the text I got on the day of that launch. Oh my god. Yeah. So we launched this, you know, collectable NFT and it skyrocketed way beyond what we had ever thought. So to give you all a sense from launch to one year in, over a billion dollars has been traded in Moonbirds NFTs. That's so long. And I did not expect that. You know, I really didn't.
长话短说，你知道的，我推出了一个叫做"月鸟"的PFP项目。我记得在那次发布当天我收到的信息。哦天啊，是的。我们发布了这个可收藏的NFT，而它的价格远远超出了我们的预期。为了让大家有个概念，从发布到一年后，"月鸟"的NFT已经交易了超过十亿美元。太长了吧，我真的没想到。你知道的，我真的没有预料到这个。
But with that comes trading. And I have never lived the world of trading. I have grown companies to quite some size, but never publicly, I've never taken a company public. And when you take a company public, i.e. Nasdaq, you know, New York Stock Exchange, you deal with the ups and downs and feedback from people that are now stakeholders of that particular company. It's different. This is an equity holding an F2 does not make you a shareholder. It's very different, but they still pay attention to what is the price of this NFT.
然而，这也伴随着交易。我从未涉足过交易领域。我曾经让公司规模不小，但从未公开上市过。当你把公司上市时，比如在纳斯达克、纽约证券交易所，你会处理来自那些现在成为该公司利益相关方的人们的起伏和反馈。这是不同的。持有货币F2并不等同于成为一名股东。这完全不同，但他们仍然会关注这个NFT的价格是多少。
So when the NFT goes up, times are good. People are happy. And when it goes down, people are not happy. I've had people truly hug me and say they paid off their house because they sold one of my NFTs for $200,000 and they were stoked. And it was like tears kind of hugging. I've had people basically tear me apart saying, I am the other person on the other side of that equation that bought that NFT for, let's call it whatever, $50,000, not $75,000. $10,000 doesn't really matter. It's all relative to how much that person has as an individual. And how are you going to fix this? Because NFTs are down and they need to go up, right?
所以当NFT价格上涨时，时局良好。人们感到高兴。但当价格下跌时，人们感到不快。有人真心地拥抱我，并说他们把我其中一件NFT以20万美元出售，并因此偿清了他们的房子抵押贷款，他们非常兴奋。他们眼含泪水地拥抱着我。也有人基本上大肆批评我，说我是那个以不到7.5万美元（或者称其为其他经济数额，比如5万美元）购买该NFT的人。1万美元并不重要，这完全取决于那个人作为个体拥有多少资产。那你打算如何解决这个问题呢？因为NFT价格下跌了，需要上涨对吧？
And some of it is on what we build to try and build bigger and better things for the ecosystem and try and hopefully prove that we are a company here for the long term. It has taken an serious emotional toll on me as an individual. I've had many, many sleepless nights. I've had anxiety like I've never had before. I've had to work with therapists. And I've had to, I've had to reach out to my primary care physician and get anti-anxiety medicine, which I've never had to do before. I have had some dark moments, some, some, not dark, like in suicide, but dark as in, you know, it's destroyed me because I've always considered myself an honest person. I've never been here to screw anyone over.
而其中一部分是关于我们所建立的东西，试图为生态系统构建更大更好的事物，并希望证明我们是一家长期存在的公司。这给我个人造成了严重的情感负担。我有过很多个彻夜未眠。我经历了前所未有的焦虑。我不得不找心理治疗师寻求帮助。我还不得不求助于我的主治医生，并获得了抗焦虑药物，这是我以前从未尝试过的。我有过一些黑暗的时刻，不是指自杀那种黑暗，而是指它让我心力交瘁，因为我一直以来都认为自己是一个诚实的人。我从未有意欺骗过任何人。
You're also a very, I consider you to be an empathic feeler. Maybe the right word is like, you're a deep feeler. I am a feeler. So, for sure. If something like, if something like that is sitting with you, you take it very personally. And I remember when you had like stomach issues.
你也是一个非常有同感的人，我认为你是一个富有同理心的人。或许合适的词语是，你是一个情感深沉的人。我也是一个感性的人，所以肯定。如果有什么事情令你感到不安，你会把它当成个人的事情去对待。我还记得当你有胃病的时候。
Yes. Oh my God. IBS related issues. That so this year, I've been treated multiple times for these types of issues with physicians, all kinds of things. They discovered, you know, the high blood pressure thing was discovered because I have a brain aneurysm right now that's on the smaller side and they're watching it and I'm fine. But those grow the more stress you're under because the more blood pressure that builds up the larger the aneurysm can grow. And so, you know, as you could imagine, all these things hit you at once.
是的。哦，天哪。与肠易激综合症相关的问题。所以今年，我多次接受医生的治疗，处理各种各样的问题。他们还发现了高血压问题，因为我现在有一个较小的脑动脉瘤，他们正在观察它，我没事。但是，这些瘤体会随着压力增加而生长，因为血压越高，瘤体就会越大。你可以想象，所有这些问题一下子都袭击到你了。
Yeah. And so I felt overwhelmed. I felt like I couldn't go to work. I felt like I kind of just needed to reset, you know, and Huberman, who I love, who's been on my podcast, Andrew Huberman is a top 10 podcast now. Oh my God. I'm killing it. I love that guy. He's doing such an amazing job of executing.
是的。所以我感到不知所措。我感觉好像不能去上班。我觉得我需要重新开始，你知道的，我喜欢的胡伯曼，他曾经在我的播客节目上出现过，安德鲁·胡伯曼现在是前十名的播客了。天哪，我太成功了。我喜欢那个家伙，他执行得真是太棒了。
I don't think I've seen anyone better at doing monologues and the way that he can do them about scientific topics. I mean, just if you haven't subscribed to Huberman's podcast, I mean, it's along with the Tia's, you know, a top five medical podcasts to subscribe to, along with Rhonda Patrick. I mean, they're they're all heroes.
我想我从未见过有人在独白表演方面做得比他更出色，尤其是在科学主题方面。我的意思是，如果你还没有订阅Huberman的播客的话，我的意思是，它和Tia一样，是你可以订阅的前五个医学播客之一，与Rhonda Patrick一样。我是说，他们都是英雄。
Huberman did a couple hour episode on ketamine therapy. And ketamine therapy, you know, it's used for PTSD. It's used for severe depression and it's used for anxiety. And it sounded really interesting. It rewires neuro pathways and Huberman's episode highly recommend I'm not a scientist, but he is. And he goes in depth about what it actually is doing on the brain.
Huberman在一个几小时的节目中谈到了氯胺酮治疗。而氯胺酮治疗，你知道，它被用于治疗创伤后应激障碍（PTSD），严重抑郁和焦虑。听起来真的很有趣。它可以重塑神经通路，Huberman的节目强烈推荐。虽然我不是科学家，但他是。他深入解释了氯胺酮到底对大脑的作用是什么。
And I always thought of ketamine clinics as being these shady places, these places where, you know, there are real people with real addictions that they treat, you know, if you're hooked on everything from amphetamines to, you know, any type of serious addiction problems, they see these types of people and also people that are about to kill themselves, like really suicidal. Like if you go to an emergency room right now, and you say, I'm going to end my life in the next 10 minutes, they will most likely treat you with some type of ketamine to just like get you out of that state. It's a very common emergency room, Hail Mary, to like get you back into a state of like just being, okay, I don't want to end my life right now. And now we can work this out or take you to an institution where you can get help.
我一直认为氯胺酮门诊是那些阴暗的地方，那些能够治疗真实成瘾问题的地方。你知道，如果你对从安非他命到任何严重成瘾问题上瘾，他们会治疗这些类型的人，还有一些即将自杀的人，真的很自杀。就像如果你现在去急诊室，告诉他们“我会在接下来的十分钟内结束自己的生命”，他们很可能会用某种氯胺酮把你从那种状态中解救出来。这是非常常见的急诊室的绝命一击，让你恢复正常状态，好让你能够处理问题，或者带你到一个可以得到帮助的机构。
So I was never there. But I got to the point where I was like, I need to do something dramatic and different. And I need to reboot because I can't take the comments I'm getting on Twitter. Now, did you see the Huberman episode organically? It's only sent to you organically. It's came across. It's came across. And I was like, oh, boy, it's been interesting. I mean, I heard about ketamine in a recreational setting. And, you know, sadly, who's a friend? Matthew Perry. Yeah, Matthew Perry just touched the college report came back and said that he was on ketamine when he drowned. And, but there's we can get into why that that is in a minute.
所以我从来没有在那里。但是我到了一个我需要做一些戏剧性和与众不同的事情的地步。我需要重新启动，因为我无法忍受我在Twitter上收到的评论。现在，你是否有机会看到了Huberman的那一集？只有自然而然地送给你的。我意识到，哦，不错，这真是有趣。我的意思是，我在娱乐场合听说过氯胺酮。你知道的，可惜的是，我的朋友马修·佩里。是的，马修·佩里刚刚接到学院的报告说他在溺水时服用了氯胺酮。但是我们可以在一会儿讨论为什么会这样。
But in a, let's focus on your personal experience. And I'll just say also, so ketamine and jacuzzis or pools or water to not mix. Exactly. There are multiple fatalities. Don't mix those two things.
但在这里，让我们重点关注你的个人经验。而且我还要说的是，卡因和按摩浴缸或者游泳池或者水是不可混合的。确实，有多起死亡案例。请不要将这两件事混在一起。
Well, when you go into ketamine, you are literally sedating yourself to where they can give you surgery. So the associate of anasthenics. Yeah. So what my doctor has told me, the ketamine there, the doctor, she's an emergency room doctor that did my treatments. Is she said to me that if you came, she was a 10 year, I think 10 or 15 years emergency room doctor. And she goes, if you came in and you had like dislocated your hip, she goes, I want to inject, I would give you what they call a bolus dose is that what they call when they a bolus is right. I mean, they're giving you a lot at once. A lot of once they just like push it all in, right? Yeah.
嗯，当你接受氯胺酮治疗时，实际上是在让自己处于镇静状态，这样他们可以给你做手术。所以氯胺酮是麻醉剂的一种。嗯，我的医生告诉我，她是一位紧急诊室医生，负责给我进行治疗的。她告诉我说，如果你进来了，比如说你脱臼了髋关节，她会给你注射一种被称为涌注剂量的药物，就是一次性给你很多剂量的药物。当然，他们会一次性注射所有药物进去，对吗？嗯。
And she's like, I would give you that to about like, you know, I can't remember the exact acts, but it was a multiple on which they give you for therapy to put you under so I can get that hip back into place. And then you wake up feeling fine.
她说，我可以给你类似的东西，你知道的，我记不清确切的剂量了，但是那是一种他们给你做治疗的药物，可以将你麻醉，以便我能够将髋部复位。然后你醒来感觉很好。
Unfortunately, with Matthew Perry, he took a dose that was equivalent of subconscious fainting, falling asleep, you know, drowning type dose. And they said the toxicology report, I read it, he had that level in him that would have put him in that state of kind of like passing out, right? Yeah, drugs and water don't mix.
不幸的是，马修·佩里用了剂量相当于潜意识昏厥的量，就是说，他入睡了，你知道的，类似溺水的剂量。他们说，据毒理学报告，我看过了，他体内的药物浓度会使他陷入一种类似晕厥的状态，对吧？是的，毒品和水是不能混合的。
Anyway, so it wasn't the fault of the ketamine. It was he was using it recreationally versus under supervision of a professional, which is, which is what his needs.
无论怎样，这并不是氯胺酮的错，而是他滥用而不是在专业监督下使用，而这才是他需要的。
So I found this, this clinic in, in LA, they literally have the set and setting right. So they're all about like you come in, it's just beautiful, comfortable, peaceful music, really relaxing reclining chairs, I mask because it's important to go inward. It's not about just getting this therapy and looking around the room, music with like drums and beautiful, like sometimes I pick my own play that said a little bit more like chanting, none, none, you don't want like lyrics or, you know, anything to distract you. And they have you hooked up to a blood pressure cuff that measures throughout the time, a heart rate monitor, like really professional setting.
所以我在洛杉矶找到了这家诊所，他们真的把环境布置得很合适。他们的理念是，你进来后，会有美丽、舒适的氛围，播放着宁静的音乐，椅子也非常舒适，我会戴上口罩，因为重要的是进入内心。这并不只是为了接受治疗，然后四处看看，而是通过音乐来帮助你实现放松，一些曲子会有鼓声，美丽的音乐，有时候我会选择一些更像是吟唱的曲子，不带任何歌词或分散注意力的东西。他们会让你同时接上血压计和心率监测器，真的是非常专业的环境。
It's called Golden Afternoon is the name of the clinic. And it's an amazing name. It's an amazing name. And the doctor there, top tier, you know, school emergency room doctor is legit as they come.
它叫做“Golden Afternoon”，是诊所的名字。这个名字真是太棒了。它的名字真是太棒了。而且那里的医生，是顶级水平的，你知道，学校的急诊室医生，真的非常专业可靠。
I saw I felt really comfortable because you know, a lot of this is about set and setting and comfort. Yeah. And safety and safety. Yeah. So I went in there and they, I was like, I'm going to give this a shot because you know, Huberman convinced me that that this can help me with anxiety.
当我看到这个时，我感到非常舒适，因为你知道，很多事情是关于环境和舒适度的。是的。还有安全性和安全性。是的。所以我进去了，我说，我要试一试，因为Huberman说服了我，这可以帮助我缓解焦虑。
And so, you know, I laid down on this comfortable chair turn on the heating, like they have a heating element in the chair, tilty back a little bit, you know, put on my nose canceling headphones, the gamey and IV and IVs does sound hardcore. But for for people like you and me that do IVs like, or do like draws like every other week. Yeah. Who cares? Like I don't care about this shit, but it does sound how hard to most people. The gamey and IV.
所以，你知道，我躺在这把舒服的椅子上，打开了加热器，就像椅子里有一个加热元件那样，稍微后仰了一下，你知道的，戴上了可以消除噪音的耳机，游戏和吸血鬼听起来真是很燃。但是对于像你我这样，每隔一周都会进行吸血鬼或者其他输血的人来说，谁在乎呢？我不在乎这些狗屁，不过大多数人可能会觉得很刺激。游戏和吸血鬼。
And you know, I closed my eyes and I went to a place, man, I went to a place and it's a beautiful place. And it made me over multiple treatments. And I did eight in total. And they normally do six for depression, which is really interesting because she said that it's typically anxiety is harder to treat than depression in her experience. And they gave me eight in total, you two, two per week.
你知道的，我闭上眼睛，进入了一个地方，伙计，我去了一个美丽的地方。并且多次治疗让我得到了好转。总共我做了八次治疗。通常治疗抑郁症只需要六次，这真的很有趣，因为她说在她的经验中，通常焦虑症比抑郁症更难治疗。他们总共给了我八次治疗，每周两次。
And about halfway through, the best way I can describe it is imagine that life is a series of crunches. And I say crunches like the ab workout, whereas like nobody likes to work out their ads, right? Like, and because abs are like, Oh, fucking ab day, like, you know, nobody wants to do that. And I didn't realize it, but I had had a 35 pound weight on my chest the entire time I was doing ab workouts. And it took that weight off. And I had, and I still have, and it's been weeks later, a bit of grace and lightness to the way I'm carrying myself throughout life, that is just a piece that I haven't felt since I was probably 10 or 12 years old.
中途过程中，我能最好地形容它的方式是想象生活就像一系列的腹肌锻炼。我说腹肌锻炼，就像是没有人喜欢锻炼腹肌一样，对吧？因为腹肌锻炼就像，噢，该死的腹肌日，你知道，没有人想做那个。但我没有意识到，在我做腹肌锻炼的整个时间里，我胸口上一直压着一个35磅的重物。当这个重物被解除时，我有了，到现在已经过了几周，一种优雅和轻盈的方式来应对生活，这是我大概从10或12岁以来就没有感受到的一种感觉。
Were you interacting with anyone in the sessions or was all internal? No, it's all internal. So it's headphones on music. I mask entire session lasts for about an hour and a half. They have a camera that's watching you. If anything comes up, one time I have my music accidentally stop and I raise my hand, they're in there within 30 seconds. They bring you hot tea when you're done. They let you take your time to slowly kind of like come to. And then you can literally walk out of there and carry on with your day.
在这些课程中，你和其他人互动了吗，还是都是内部的？不，都是内部的。所以我戴着耳机听音乐。整个疗程大约持续一个半小时。他们有一台监视摄像头。如果有什么问题出现，比如有一次我音乐不小心停了，我举起手，他们就会在30秒内过来。结束后，他们会给你一杯热茶。他们会让你慢慢回到现实世界。然后你可以简单地走出去，继续你的一天。
And you know, the first session, I was like, okay, that's beautiful. Second session was a little difficult. Imagine it's kind of loosening up like the plaque in your brain and like rewiring circuits and like it's not always going to be easy. But by the by I remember the sixth session, I just walked out there and she got Dr. Jen came in and she goes, how are you? And I said, I could run a marathon right now. I feel amazing. I feel like a weight has been lifted off my chest. And I just, this is such important work that you do, such important work because it's not about being, I don't feel there's not an addiction to the substance. I don't need to go back.
你知道的，第一次会议时，我觉得很好。第二次会议有点困难。想象一下，这就像是你脑中的斑块松动了，就像是重置了电路一样，这并不总是容易的。但我记得第六次会议，我走出去时，珍医生进来问我：“你好吗？”我说：“我现在感觉可以跑马拉松了。我感觉太棒了，我感觉像是从胸口解脱了一样沉重。你所做的工作非常重要，非常重要，因为这不关乎对物质的上瘾。我不需要回去。”
Some people go back for boosters, depending on what they have. They have, she told me that some people that have depression, they'll come back in every three months, every six months. She says, some people she never sees again. And it kind of takes the anxiety and puts it pulls it apart from your body so that you can see it for what it is, which is silliness because life is play. And when you realize life is play and we're all here just trying to figure out our shit. Yeah. Why are we taking it so seriously? Yeah, there's a lot that just does not matter. It doesn't matter. So we can just chill, man. It doesn't really matter. So that they have clean drinking water. Yeah. Like what the fuck are we complaining about?
有些人根据自身情况返回接种疫苗。她告诉我，一些患有抑郁症的人每隔三个月或六个月就会回来。她说，有些人她再也见不到。这样做可以将焦虑从身体中分离出来，使你能够看清它的本质，也就是无谓的事情，因为生活就是游戏。当你意识到生活就是一场游戏，我们都只是在努力解决自己的烦恼时，为什么我们要那么认真地对待它呢？是的，有很多事情并不重要，我们可以放松点，伙计。真的没什么大不了的，只要他们有干净的饮用水。是的，我们在抱怨些什么？
So that the weight on the chest, was that something that you can't put words to that you just felt release or and you don't need to get into details or was there content to it? We're like, Oh, no, interesting. Was in content. Content was beautiful.
你是不是无法用言语形容那种压在胸口的感觉，但是却能感受到释放出来了？不需要进一步细节，这件事有具体内容吗？我们好像是说：“哦，有趣。有具体的内容。” 内容很美。
And I don't know if you've ever experienced this, Tim, I've never done it. I wasca, although at some point I would love to try it. But like, I opened my eyes and it was when the mask is on. And I was seeing things that were as high of fidelity as what we see today, like right now. Yeah. Where you're like, I am in a room right now. And I felt very present, my dad's passed away. I felt very present with a father source there at times. I felt very connected. At one point, I saw the entire world and I saw how small I was. And I was just like, it immediately gave me this sense of just like gratitude for that being that little speck, but also at the same time, not having to take and carry the burdens of the world on me for being that little speck. And so there's bits and pieces of that.
我不知道你是否有过这种经历，蒂姆，我从来没试过。虽然有一天我很想试试。但是就像，当我睁开眼睛的时候面具已经戴上了。我看到的东西和我们现在所看到的一样真实。是的，就像现在，我在一个房间里。我感到非常地存在，我爸爸去世了，有时候我感到和一个父亲的存在非常亲近。有一次我看到了整个世界，意识到了自己的渺小。这立刻给了我一种对那个小点的感激，但同时我也感到不必承担世界的重担。所以这其中有些片段。
But I would say at the end of the day, when you come out of it, it's not like you had this epiphany. It's more like Dr. Jen calls it, the ketamine's time on she goes, it's time on brain. How can we make this sit and do the rewiring on your brain and give you time on brain with the drug and the compound and let it do its work? And so it was a lot of surrendering. There's a lot of saying, you do what you want to do. I don't care where you take me emotionally, mentally, whatever, it doesn't really matter. It's time on brain with the compound. And after a certain number of sessions, you just feel this natural lift and lightness. And it felt like I'm not a ballerina, big surprise. But it felt like a little bit of a like walking through life is a little bit of a dance now that it is such a struggle.
但我会说到最后，当你走出来时，并不像你有了突然顿悟。更像是珍妮博士所说的，氯胺酮在脑内发挥作用的时间。我们如何让这个药物和化合物在你的大脑中进行重构，让它发挥作用的时间？所以，这就需要很多的放手。有很多时候，你只需说，你想做什么就做什么。我不在乎你在情感上、心理上带我去哪里，无论如何，这并不重要。重要的是化合物在大脑中起作用的时间。在经过一定的疗程之后，你会感到一种自然的轻松和愉悦。感觉就像我不是个芭蕾舞者，是个大惊喜。但感觉就像是现在的生活有点像一种舞蹈，不再那么困难了。
Makes me super happy, man, to hear that. It feels amazing. And I remember getting the text, some of the texts from you, and I was excited to have this conversation, which we haven't had. This is the first time we're talking about it. It is. And I'll say a few things. The first is that I have seen a number of cases where ketamine therapy has changed or saved lives. So a friend of mine, for instance, who suffered from depression, his entire adult life had a similar experience to yours. And he went to a clinic, I believe it was in New York City, very well run. And he goes back once every six months for a single tune up, let's just say session. And I actually know also not going to mention their name, but someone we know as a mutual friend, who you probably don't know also does this once every three to six months. And separately, I know someone who's in law enforcement who is heavily disincentivized from talking about mental health with his superiors, because you will be put on leave, generally. If you even hinted that and you're in certain professions, line pilot, for instance, you're going to be put on leave. And it's a nice way to say you practice a nice way. It's a career risk to bring these things up, which puts many more people at risk, right? There should be better processes for this.
这让我感到非常开心，伙计，听到这个消息。感觉太棒了。我还记得收到你发来的一些短信，我很兴奋能有这次交谈，我们之前从未谈论过这个。这是我们第一次讨论这个问题。我想说几件事。第一，我见过很多例子，凯他敏治疗改变了或挽救了人们的生活。比如，我一个朋友，他一生都患有抑郁症，他有和你类似的经历。他去了一家非常好运营的诊所，我记得是在纽约市。他每六个月去一次进行一次"调整"，我们就这么说吧。我还知道一个我们共同认识的人，我不会透露他们的名字，但也是每三到六个月做一次这样的治疗。另外，我认识一位执法人员，他非常不愿意和上级谈论心理健康，因为一旦示意，你就会被安排休假，一般来说。如果你在某些职业中暗示了这一点，比如飞行员，你就会被安排休假。这种说法很委婉，其实你是在冒职业风险提出这些问题，这将使更多的人处于危险之中，对吧？应该有更好的解决办法。
But nonetheless, he was suicidal at one point. We're talking about somebody who was carrying around a firearm all day. And ketamine was an intervention that was incredibly effective for him for pattern interrupting. And I use that very literally because the pattern was a thought loop. This is personal. This is permanent. This is never going to change. And when you're able to at least interrupt that for a short period of time, you provide people with hope or at least a window within which they can consider other options. So for acute suicide, suicidal ideation, also for chronic pain, very interestingly, ketamine is super interesting. Yes. It's interesting to say that because she, Dr. Jen over at this clinic has told me she treated quite a few people for chronic pain as well. And it works quite well.
然而，有一段时间他曾自杀倾向。我们在讨论一个整天携带着枪支的人。而氯胺酮是一种非常有效的干预方式，用来打破他的思维循环。我这里使用“打破循环”这个词非常地直观，因为这个循环是这样的：这是个人的问题，这是永久的，永远不会改变。当你至少能够在短时间内打破这种思维循环时，你就给予了人们希望，或者至少是一个可以考虑其他选择的窗口。因此，在急性自杀和自杀意念的情况下，以及慢性疼痛的情况下，氯胺酮非常有趣。是的，这很有趣，因为这家诊所的詹博士告诉我她也治疗过不少慢性疼痛患者，而且效果很好。
So I unexpectedly, because have you done it? So before I talk to anyone about anything like this, generally, I am volunteering to be the monkey shot in the space.
所以，出乎意料的是，你做好了吗？所以在我和任何人讨论这类事情之前，一般来说，我自愿成为太空猴子的试验品。
So several years ago, I did six sessions over three weeks. Ketamine. Yeah. Oh shit. Did you ever tell me this? I didn't realize I didn't tell you. So I did six sessions. This would have been with a mask on. And in this particular case, it was music, but it was not mask on. The way that this particular clinic ran things was with video, which was very strange to me. But nonetheless, it was sort of nature scapes. I was like, okay, well, this is new to me. I'll try it. And it ended up being supremely interesting. I was not going in with an acute condition. So it was hard for me to evaluate, ultimately, a lot of the efficacy.
几年前，我进行了六次持续三周的氯胺酮治疗。没错，噢天啊，我之前有没有告诉过你这件事？我当时没有意识到我没有告诉你。所以我进行了六次治疗。这些治疗时我戴着面罩。在这特殊的情况下，使用的是音乐，但不需要戴面罩。这家诊所运营方式很奇怪，使用视频进行治疗。但尽管如此，我发现这种方法非常有趣。当时我并没有患急性疾病，所以很难对其疗效进行评估。
They found it very strange. And I found it kind of hilarious because they would do an intake each day of active sessions. And they would ask me to do various assessments for anxiety. And my anxiety levels were going up over time, which they found very confusing because you may have experienced a little bit of this. Ketamine can compromise your short-term memory in the short-term, like a after session. So you might like, forget where your wallet is or forget where your backpack is. I didn't have any of that. Okay. So that can happen.
他们觉得这非常奇怪。而我却觉得有点好笑，因为他们每天都会进行一次活动期间的评估。他们会要求我进行各种焦虑症评估。而我的焦虑水平却越来越高，这让他们感到非常困惑，因为你可能也经历过这种情况。在短期内，氯胺酮可能会对你的短期记忆产生影响，比如在治疗后会产生类似的情况。所以你可能会忘记你的钱包放在哪里，或者忘记你的背包放在哪里。但我没有这种情况。好了，这样的情况可能会发生。
And that happened to me. And it happened to be the case that while I was doing these sessions, because I shoehorned it into my schedule, I also had a number of huge podcasts coming up, like LeBron James and so on. And it was freaking me out that I kept forgetting shit. And so my anxiety was going up over the course of treatment, which was not typically what they said. So I did the same thing. They gave me a whole breakdown. It was one to five on a bunch of different scales. They had a pretty standardized thing that they gave you. I can't remember what the anxiety scales are. But mine went down to literally a zero on all of them, which is amazing. It is amazing.
然后这种情况发生在我身上。恰恰在我进行这些会话的同时，因为我将其强行安排在我的时间表上，我还有一系列重要的播客提前安排好了，比如勒布朗·詹姆斯等人。我很担心我会忘记一些东西，这让我感到非常恐慌。随着治疗的进展，我的焦虑逐渐上升，这与通常的情况并不一样。所以我采取了同样的措施。他们给我提供了一个完整的分析。在各种不同的衡量尺度上，总共有一到五。他们给我提供了一个相对标准化的评估表。我记不清焦虑量表的具体内容了。但我的分数在所有尺度上都降到了零，这真是令人惊奇。这真是令人惊奇。
And I want to mention a few other things. So I'm sure humans episode is excellent for people who want to have a comprehensive overview of ketamine. I'm sure humans is great. So listen to that first. It's fantastic. I also did an episode with John Crystal, who Dr. John Crystal, who is the chairman of psychiatry Yale, who did a lot of the seminal research with respect to ketamine as an antidepressant in humans. So the protocols that get used, which I think are generally like 0.5 milligrams per kilogram of body weight, et cetera, over experience time with y number of infusions. So those are the protocols that he developed with his other investigators.
我还想提及一些其他事情。所以我确信《人类》这一集非常适合那些想要全面了解氯胺酮的人。我确信《人类》非常棒。所以先去听听那一集，真是太好了。我还与约翰·克里斯特尔博士进行了一期节目，他是耶鲁大学的精神病学主任，他在人类中将氯胺酮作为抗抑郁药进行了大量的开创性研究。因此，目前使用的治疗方案基本上是每千克体重0.5毫克的剂量，通过一定时间内的经验，进行y次输液治疗。这些方案是他与其他研究者共同开发的。
And I want to mention a number of things just to make sure that I'm doing my safety first, Ferris duty. So the first is that part of the reason, and this is pure speculation, but I think that it was risky for Matthew Perry to use ketamine, is that he had a history of abuse. Ketamine can be very addictive for people who are unwilling or un-eager to feel certain things. It's a dissociative anesthetic. So if you have, for instance, a history of alcohol abuse, it is, I would say, increasingly likely that you might abuse ketamine, which is why if someone were to consider ketamine therapy, I feel very strongly that it should be IV or intramuscular injection and not at home treatment, where you have access to, say, lozenges or nasal spray. Because there are companies that do lozenges at home.
我想提到一些事情，只是为了确保我优先考虑我的安全，费里斯的责任。首先，可能是因为马修·佩里存在滥用药物的历史，这也纯属猜测，但我认为他使用氯胺酮是有风险的。对于那些不愿意或不渴望体验某些感觉的人来说，氯胺酮可能会很容易上瘾。它是一种解离性麻醉药。所以，如果你有酗酒的历史，我会说，你滥用氯胺酮的可能性会越来越大。这就是为什么，如果有人考虑接受氯胺酮疗法，我非常坚决地认为它应该是经静脉或肌肉注射，而不是在家里自行治疗，这样你就能得到例剂或鼻喷剂。因为有一些公司提供在家用例剂的服务。
But I will say one thing, Tim, real quick, and I'll let you continue. I noticed my desire for alcohol go down. So there are this, I think that that can happen. And I'm just saying for folks who, for instance, may be coming out of or part of AA and they have issues with depression. My personal take after everything I've seen is that prior abuse of alcohol, highly correlated to potential abuse of ketamine. And I would say furthermore, there are some urological risks if you use ketamine chronically and alongside that, if you use ketamine chronically, and this is true for a lot of drugs, actually.
但是我会说一件事，蒂姆，很快，然后我会让你继续说。我注意到我对酒精的渴望减少了。所以有这种情况，我认为可能会发生。我只是想对那些可能正在戒酒匿名会议（AA）中或与抑郁症有关问题的人来说，根据我所见，过去对酒精的滥用与对氯胺酮潜在滥用有很高的相关性。此外，如果你长期使用氯胺酮，会带来一些泌尿系统的风险，这对很多药物来说都是事实。
That's for snorting though, right? I mean, because you wouldn't be in your logical track otherwise, because it metabolizes in the liver. Well, most people who consume ketamine recreationally. Oh, the would be their mouth or it'll be a lot of it'll be snorting of one way of one sorter and other. So they'll either have it in it'll be in suspension and liquid, or it will be a powder this snort in the same way they would snort cocaine. A lot of people carry little lockets around their necks with ketamine. I've seen this a lot. By the way, that's not what I'm talking about. No, no, no, no, I'm not. But those are two very different.
尽管如此，这是指用来鼻吸的对吧？我的意思是，因为否则你的思维不会保持正常，因为它在肝脏中代谢。嗯，大多数人娱乐性地使用氯胺酮。哦，它们可能会放在嘴里，或者主要通过鼻吸的方式摄入。所以它们要么以悬浮液的形式，要么以粉末的形式，就像吸食可卡因一样吸入。很多人把氯胺酮放在项链上挂着。我见过很多这样的情况。顺便说一下，我并不是在谈论这个。不，不，不，不，我不是。但它们是两种非常不同的情况。
They are. So just to be very clear, ketamine therapy with IV or IM has a track record of being incredibly promising for a physician for a number of other things. But where where some folks get lost is they go from they go from instead of clinical setting, higher dose supervised, they bleed into more casual recreational use, in which case it's very important for me to say that ketamine can be very helpful for people with say, treatment resistant depression or chronic depression. If you use it chronically though, it flips the other way and it actually makes you predisposed to more depression. So it's just something for people to be aware of.
他们是。所以，为了非常清楚，静脉注射或肌肉注射的氯胺酮疗法在许多其他方面对医生来说非常有前景。但有些人迷失的地方是他们往往从临床情境、较高剂量的监督使用开始，逐渐转向更加随意的娱乐用途。在这种情况下，我需要强调的是，氯胺酮可以非常有助于那些患有治疗抵抗性抑郁症或慢性抑郁症的人。然而，如果您长期使用它，情况将反过来，实际上会导致更多的抑郁症。因此，这只是让人们意识到的一点。
Yeah. And as is true with so many things, more is not better. What was the drug that Michael Jackson died of? Do you remember the name of that? Sure. I think it was a synthetic opioid or no, no, no, it was basically some type of anesthetic. Yeah. So it was funny. I went and, you know, because I'm old now in my 40s, I wouldn't have my first colonoscopy because like you're supposed to do that shit, you know, part of time. Have you done that yet or no? I have. Yes. Yes. I went and did mine. And by the way, this is very sad, but do not skip your fucking colonoscopies. No. A very good friend of mine. Since we last spoke, Roland Griffiths, who's an amazing scientist from Johns Hopkins, he died of terminal cancer. And I had a long conversation with him a few days before he died, before I went to South America, he was completely razor sharp up until the end. And my recollection is that part of the reason that was caught too late is that he was a few years late in having his exam. So I had mine done and they caught a couple precancerous as they do with most people these days. Yeah. Do your fucking screens. And you got to do your screens. But anyway, long story short, when I was going in, the anesthesiologist came in the room and he was kind of a funny guy. It was cool. I like those guys, you know, yeah. And I asked him, I said, can I have a slow ramp? And he's like, what's the slow ramp? And I'm like, were you just kind of get to me a little bit of time just like just like feel like going into that like that zone, you know? Yeah. And he's like, it's funny. You say that. He's like, I'm giving you the same drug they gave Michael Jackson when he died. And I was like, Oh, that's crazy. I'm like, why? And he's like, he was just addicted to it. And so he gave me the slow ramp. And I remember this feeling about probably, let's call it 30 seconds into it where I felt like I was okay with dying. It was just like this moment of like, this is beautiful. Yeah. And I was like, Oh my God, this is what Michael Jackson was feeling right now. Propeful. Propeful. Yeah. Exactly. That was it. All right.
没错。就像很多事情一样，更多并不一定更好。迈克尔·杰克逊死于什么药品？你记得那个药的名字吗？是的，我记得。我认为那是一种合成阿片类药物，或者不，不，不，基本上是某种麻醉剂。是的。很有趣。我去做了我的首次结肠镜检查，因为我已经40多岁了，你知道，你应该做这个事情，及时检查。你做过了吗？我做了。是的，是的。我去做了，话虽如此，但你千万不要跳过该死的结肠镜检查。不。我的一个很好的朋友 Roland Griffiths，他是约翰·霍普金斯大学的一位了不起的科学家，他死于晚期癌症。在我们上次交谈之后的几天，我和他进行了一次长谈，在我去南美之前，他一直非常清醒，我记得他被发现太晚部分原因是他推迟了几年才进行体检。所以我自己做了检查，他们发现了一些几乎快癌变的东西，像他们这些天对大多数人做的一样。是的，做你他妈的检查。你也得做你的体检。总之，当我去的时候，麻醉师进来了，他是个很搞笑的人，很酷。我喜欢那些人，你知道的，是啊。我问他，我说，我可以慢慢进入吗？他说，慢慢进入是什么意思？我说，你能给我一点时间，就像慢慢进入那个状态一样，你知道吗？他说，很有趣，你这么说。他说，我给你的是迈克尔·杰克逊死时也用的同样药物。我说，哦，这太疯狂了。我说，为什么？他说，他只是对它上瘾了。所以他给了我慢慢进入的方式。我记得大概在30秒左右的时候，我感觉自己对死亡很满意。就像这一刻是美丽的。是啊，我就觉得，哦，天啊，这就是迈克尔·杰克逊现在的感受。舒服的。舒服的。就是这样。
And so I get it. But it's but this is like to the point of Matthew Perry dying in the pool, like this stuff puts you under. Yeah. It puts you under so that you can have surgery. Yeah. And that is what ketamine does as well. So and ketamine broadly speaking is an incredibly well tolerated safe drug. Part of the reason that ketamine is I believe listed in the World Health Organization's top 100 most essential medicines is because it is generally very well tolerated. Yes. And it does not suppress respiration. Yes. Exactly. Right. Which is a huge one. Right. That gigantic. And it's an incredible compound. And you just need to know the risk profile. And there are risk profiles for everything. Of course. You know, we have tequila and we have water in front of us. Water has risk profile too. People die every year. You came up in a trimea because they drink too much water when they're training for or running in a marathon. And that causes disruption of sort of electrochemical signaling. And then boom, they drop and I people die every year. I didn't hear about this. But there was a radio host DJ. Oh, I remember this. You know, I'm talking about these water drinking competitions. People die overdosing on water. This has happened many times. Right. So as Paracalysis would say, the dose makes the poison. But sometimes the frequency in the use pattern makes the poison. Yeah. And I think ketamine is incredibly interesting. Yeah. And firstly, because the when you get into the actual science behind it, we're not just using this as an escape. It's actually rewiring the brain. Yeah. And and Huberman will get into that the kind of neurology behind it and what's happening. And why these are more lasting changes and why some people, not everyone, but some people can go and do this and they don't ever have to go back for a booster or anything else. And it changes them forever.
所以我明白了。但是这就像马修·佩里在游泳池溺亡一样，这些东西让你陷入其中。是的，它使你陷入其中，以便可以进行手术。是的，克他命也是这样做的。总体而言，克他命是一种非常耐受性良好且安全的药物。我相信克他命被列入世界卫生组织的100种最重要药物之一，部分原因在于它的耐受性非常好。是的。它不会抑制呼吸。是的。确切地说。这一点非常重要。巨大的。它是一种令人难以置信的化合物。你只需要了解风险概况。而且每一样东西都有风险概况。当然。你知道，我们面前有龙舌兰和水。水也有风险概况。每年都有人因为在训练或参加马拉松比赛时喝太多水而死亡。这会导致电化学信号的中断。然后，砰，他们倒下了，每年都有人死亡。我没听说过这件事。但是有一个电台主持人DJ。哦，我记得了你在说什么，那些喝水比赛的人。人们因为过量饮水而过量服药死亡，这种事情已经发生过很多次了。是的。正如砷的麻痹剂所说，剂量决定毒性。但有时使用频率和模式也会造成毒性。是的。我认为克他命非常有意思。是的。首先，因为当你深入了解其背后的科学原理时，我们不仅仅将其用作一种逃避手段。它实际上正在重塑大脑。是的，胡伯曼将深入探讨背后的神经学和所发生的事情。以及为什么这些变化更持久，以及为什么一些人，虽然不是每个人，但一些人可以这样做，他们永远不必再回去补充或进行其他任何操作。这将永远改变他们。
So I don't know if I should get into this. So we can always cut it. Well, someone very close to me. She was closest to a side. And she's she's a dear friend. She's a sweetheart of a person. And she was the first time I'd ever heard a ketamine there. This was probably four years ago. And she said I was about to take, you know, the closer taking her life. And she had heard about ketamine therapy. It was like kind of new at the time. And she paid for the six pack, the six sessions, you know, the whole six. And and she hated every single session. And it was funny when I talked to Dr. Jen at the clinic that I went to, she said, it's very common people that have depression. They don't enjoy the experience. And I thought it was fantastic. I love the whole thing. But but like when my my friend said that as session, session six, she heard a pop in her brain, like a physical pop, like a psychic chiropractor adjustment. Literally, the depression lifted. And she has been amazing ever since. So while and this has been like five years ago. And it's like, I believe her, she's like doing insanely well now. And it's like, Oh my God, like dude, I so Tim, I just want to like one, thank you for how much money and effort you've put into psychedelic research, because thanks, after experiencing this, I realized that there is something here. And we don't have it figured out. Yeah, obviously we don't like we're in the baby stages, but you know, 10, 20, 30 years with AI, maybe 10 years, like this will get figured out. And it will be largely because people like you help fund this type of research. So I just want to say thank you for that. Thank you for that. Yeah, I really appreciate that. And I was so happy to see this text.
因此，我不知道是否应该涉足其中。这样我们总是可以中断。嗯，我身边有个非常亲近的人。她曾经离死亡最近。她是我最亲近的人之一。她是我极为亲爱的朋友。她是一个非常可爱的人。她是我第一次听说过氯胺酮的人。这大概是四年前的事了。她说她准备结束自己的生命，而她听说了氯胺酮治疗。当时它还是比较新的。她为自己付了一个包括六次疗程的费用。每次疗程她都很痛苦。当我跟我去的那个诊所的Jen博士交谈时，她说，像她这样有抑郁症的人不会喜欢这种体验是非常常见的。但是我认为这是非常棒的。我非常喜欢整个过程。但是当我的朋友说，在第六次疗程时，她听到了大脑里有一个嘭的声音，就像一个物理上的嘭声，就像是心理上的脊椎按摩。抑郁症仿佛消失了。从那以后，她变得非常出色。这已经是五年前的事了。我相信她，她现在过得非常好。哇哦，朋友，非常感谢你为精神药物研究投入了这么多金钱和努力，因为在经历了这些后，我意识到这里面存在着一些东西。我们尚未完全弄清楚。是的，显然我们还处在初级阶段，但是你知道，随着人工智能的发展，也许10年、20年、30年，这个问题将得到解决。而这主要是因为像你这样的人帮助资助了这种研究。所以我只是想说谢谢你。非常感谢你。我看到这条短信非常开心。
Yeah, I got to tell you, if you're in the if you're in the LA area, and obviously you'll talk to her as a doctor, this is her advice not ours. And you'll you'll go through the whole screening process. But golden afternoon dot clinic, I think is the website. And she is an amazing human, very caring, comes in pre and post checks in on you, like a really well run facility, depression, anxiety, PTSD, war veterans, all these people are going in to see her. And it's God's work if wherever you believe in God or not. Yeah, there are some there are some great clinics out there. I will say there are also a lot of fly by night clinics 100%. So do your homework. Yes.
是的，我要告诉你，如果你在洛杉矶地区，并且显然你会把她作为医生来咨询，这是她的建议，而不是我们的。你将经历整个筛查流程。但是我认为Golden Afternoon Clinic是她的网站。她是一个了不起的人，非常关心他人，会在手术前后进行关照，这是一个管理良好的机构，处理抑郁、焦虑、创伤后应激障碍、战争退伍军人等等问题，很多人都去看她。不管你相信不相信上帝，这是上帝的工作。是的，还有一些很好的诊所。但我要说，也有很多不良诊所。所以要自己做好调查。是的。
The one of the main advantages, or it is a main advantage of ketamine as compared to other psychedelics is that in the United States, it is currently legal. Yes. And that is a non trivial advantage. And I will say that one question you may want to ask in doing your due diligence, if you consider this as an option. And I do feel after canvassing many different compounds, many different treatments that for for acute suicidal ideation, that ketamine is at the very top of the list, it is on a very short list of interventions that have incredible promise for at least creating the space for someone to consider treatment options.
与其他致幻剂相比，氯胺酮的一个主要优势，或者说是其主要优势之一，在美国目前是合法的。是的，这是一个非常重要的优势。我想说的是，在对这种选择进行尽职调查时，你可能想要问的一个问题是什么。在调查了许多不同化合物和不同治疗方法后，我认为对于急性自杀倾向，氯胺酮是排名第一的治疗方法之一，它在能够为某人考虑治疗选择提供极大希望的干预措施的短名单上。
And the question, the due diligence question that I recommend, and this is true for any type of drug assisted therapy, it's actually true for surgeons too. It's true for doctors in general, ask them what types of adverse events they've observed, what type of abuse potential they've observed. If their answer is, everything is always fine. We've never had an adverse event. Yeah, that is a huge red flag. Yes. Anyone who has enough mileage, if they are ketamine clinic physician, if they are an ER physician, they will be able to tell you what things look like when things go sideways, yes, and how they handle those situations. And if they don't volunteer any of that, it means either they're inexperienced or they're delusional generally. 100%. And I'm giving people a bit of a break, or it means they're lying. And in all three cases, you do not want to have anything to do with that particular practitioner.
问一个尽职调查的问题，这适用于任何类型的药物辅助疗法，实际上也适用于外科医生。对于一般的医生也是一样的，问他们观察到了什么样的不良事件，观察到了什么样的滥用倾向。如果他们的回答是，一切都一直很好，我们从未发生过不良事件。那是一个巨大的警示标志。是的。任何有足够经验的人，无论是氯胺酮诊所的医生还是急诊科医生，他们都能告诉你在情况出现问题时会是什么样子，以及他们如何处理这些情况。如果他们没有主动提供任何信息，那说明他们可能经验不足或者总是自欺欺人。百分之百。我稍微给人们一点喘息的空间，或者这意味着他们在撒谎。无论哪种情况，你都不想与那个特定的从业者扯上任何关系。
By the way, I looked her up, she's a Princeton. Princeton? Yeah. Go Tigers. Look at that. That's where my doctor was going. Phil Wolfson, for instance, has done a lot of writing on this. Do your homework. You are signing up for, let's just call it, psychoactive brain surgery. So to the extent that you would do your due diligence related to a surgeon who is going to be physically opening your head, carving a hole in your skull and performing manual brain surgery, do a commensurate amount of homework on the person who is going to be providing you with compounds that have a significant impact on cognitive functioning, not necessarily only in the short term, but in the longer term. Yeah.
顺便说一句，我查了一下她，她是普林斯顿大学毕业的。普林斯顿大学？是的，老虎队加油！看这个，那是我医生即将去的地方。比如说，菲尔·沃尔夫森在这方面写了很多文章。做好功课吧。你正在注册参加，咱们就称之为精神活性脑部手术。所以在你尽职调查的程度上，要与一个外科医生开你的脑袋、在你头骨上切割并进行手动脑部手术的医生相当，同样要做大量关于那个人的功课，他将向你提供对认知功能产生重大影响的化合物，不仅仅是短期效果，还有长期效果。是的。
You want to hear another crazy drug story? Let's hear it. That's why we're here. Yeah. All right. I'll give you a refill. Speaking of drugs, Andrew Huberman would not be pleased. With dysentery. With dysentery. Oh, like straight, straight, tequila. Yeah. Occasionally, a teal will have a drink or two. You just know what he's signing up for. Anyway, we can come back to this.
你想听另一个疯狂的毒品故事吗？那就来听听吧，这也是我们在这里的原因。嗯，好吧。我给你倒满。说到毒品，安德鲁·休伯曼可能不会高兴。得痢疾了。得痢疾了。哦，就像喝直接的龙舌兰一样。嗯。偶尔，一个人可能会喝一两杯。他只是知道自己在做什么。总之，我们可以回头再说这个。
Part of the reason that I had a wild experience in Portugal recently, no matter how much wine I have there, I do not have a headache the next day. And I think it's additive related. I can feel tired. It will fuck up my sleep. At the end of the day, it is alcohol. But fascinating how different my physiological response can be. In any case, that's true with this stuff too, for me personally with Lala. That's great to hear considering I'm consuming a good portion of it. Yeah, good portion.
最近我在葡萄牙有了一个疯狂的经历，无论我喝多少葡萄酒，第二天都没有头痛的问题。我认为这与添加剂有关。我可能会感到疲倦，它会影响我的睡眠质量。毕竟，这是酒精。但是，我身体对此的反应有多么不同，这让人着迷。不管怎样，对我个人来说，对于Lala这种东西也是如此。考虑到我消费了大量的它，这听起来真是太棒了。是的，很大一部分。
All right. So let's, I got to talk to you about my tattoo at some point. Okay. All right. You know what? I'm going to leave that as a cliffhanger and come back to a wild drug story. That's right. That's right. That's right. I'm here in town. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. We're going to hear about the crazy machine. Okay. Let's tattoo and crazy machine. What's going on?
好的。所以，我得和你谈谈我的纹身。好的。好吧。你知道吗？我会暂时悬而不决，然后回来讲一个疯狂的毒品故事。没错。没错。没错。我在城里。哦，我不知道。哦，是的。我们要听听这个疯狂的机器。好的。纹身和疯狂的机器到底是怎么回事？
One of the, the, the premier generative artists went in by what, when I say generative, what I mean by that for those that don't know is like there's a whole genre of art that is code-based. You know, you write actually computer science code like, and you create art. And one of the, the premier artists in the space has been sold at Christie's and Sotheby's and all of the place is Tyler Hobbs. He's based here on- Such an awesome guy too. Another sweetheart of the guy. He told me he's always enjoyed hanging out with you. So he's hanging out with the occult. What a nice guy. He's, he, he and his wife are just lovely beyond words. Such great people. Yeah. And so Tyler lives here in Austin. And you know, his NFTs, you can say what you want to be a T's, but his NFTs are just absolutely gorgeous pieces of artwork and, and you can sell for at times millions of dollars. Like they're, they're really sought after. Also a legit visual artist outside of Cook. Oh my God. Like I went to the studio today and he pulled up in binders. He's been doing like decades of his visual art. And it's just like, he's not in this for the quote unquote NFTs. Like he's an artist, like to his core. He strikes me as the person that's always saying, what's next? How can I push things in a different direction? Right.
作为一位首屈一指的生成艺术家，泰勒·霍布斯用代码创造艺术作品。或许对于不了解的人来说，生成艺术是一种以代码为基础的艺术形式。他的作品在佳士得和苏富比等著名拍卖行交易，并且他本人也非常出色。他告诉我他一直很享受和你在一起的时光，真是个好人。他也喜欢与神秘主义结伴，真是个好人。他和他的妻子都非常可爱、善良。泰勒住在奥斯汀。无论你对非同质化代币（NFTs）的看法如何，泰勒的NFT艺术品确实非常精美，有时可以以数百万美元的价格售出，非常抢手。此外，他也是一位合法的视觉艺术家，不仅仅局限于代码创作。我今天去他的工作室时看到了他几十年来的视觉艺术作品，简直令人惊叹。他并不是为了所谓的NFT而参与其中，他是一位纯粹的艺术家，总是在思考下一步，如何推动艺术向不同的方向发展。
And there's a company based out here called Black Dot that does, it has a machine. It's a robot that uses not tattoo needles, but you know when like people get like their eyebrows, like a cosmetically tattooed on, I can imagine it. It's a common thing. Like some, some, I don't want to be gender based here, but it's mostly women, they get like tattooed on as their eyebrows, but like they use a much finer needle than they would say a tattoo gun. Okay. And so this robot, this machine uses these really fine needles. And what they do is they take, and we can put this in the video as well, they put this kind of template on your arm that is more or less just like almost like a cure of massive QR code kind of like grid on your arms. That's my forearms. I was wondering about that. You sent me a text and I was like, what the hell other guess that another? Is that your tattoo? Okay. No, it's just like a giant QR code. Yeah, like a giant QR code across my forearm. And that allows the optical lenses and the lasers and everything to align the tattoo. It is doing 17,000 small micro like pushes into my skin with this needle. Okay. And it does it, they can gauge with like these depth sensors, like the correct depth of the dermis to go in, so that the ink doesn't spread out and fade over time. Yeah. So they can do insanely high fidelity tattoos. Like stuff you've never like picture perfect. Like even when you see those pictures of like, Oh, that person got that baby tattooed on their like chest. How cute. Like imagine 10x the fidelity of that where you'd be like somebody took a picture and like pasted it on their chest. Yeah. They have a machine that can do that. So you're never getting those off. So you change your mind.
这里有家叫作Black Dot的公司，有一种机器。它是一台机器人，使用的不是纹身针，而是当人们注纹眉毛时使用的一种更细的针。这是一种很常见的事情。有些人（我不想以性别为基础）把眉毛纹在上面，但是使用的针比纹身枪更细。这台机器使用这些非常细的针。他们在你的胳膊上放上一种类似于治疗巨大二维码网格的模板。我曾想过这个问题。你给我发了条短信，我想，“这到底是什么？”难道是你的纹身？好像不是，只是一个巨大的二维码。对，就是一道延伸到我前臂的巨大二维码。这样光学镜头和激光设备就可以对齐纹身。这个机器用这个针在我的皮肤上进行了17,000次微小的推动。好的，他们可以用深度传感器来判断达尔蒙层的正确深度，以免墨水扩散和褪色。是的，他们可以制作极高保真度的纹身，你从没见过的那种。就像你看到那些人胸前纹了一个小孩的照片一样，可爱极了。这种纹身保真度是它的10倍，你会觉得好像有人把一张照片贴在他们的胸前一样。是的，他们有一台可以做到这一点的机器。所以你决定了就得一直保持这样。
What this is, is Tyler started with he drew me a sparrow. And the reason I like a sparrow is because to me, a sparrow is the most common low ego bird to me that's out there. It just reminds me that in like, like I'm just getting a little sensitive, but like reminds me that we are all just sparrows. We don't need to take each other. Like no one's better than anyone else. Yeah. We were all a common bird. We're all humans, right? And then what he did is he applied an algorithm to it that degrades the bird into a pixelated form over three images. That's cool. Yeah. And so the last one is his last algorithm of the more pixelated version. And so you can imagine I'm getting this tattooed on my arm tomorrow. And so wait, you're getting a tattoo tomorrow. What is that? This is just stencil. So I wanted to show you this today. Okay. Cool. So you can imagine a world where literally in the future, how long does that stencil last? You could wipe it off and with some alcohol and stuff, but it's like, you know, just there for the show of the show. But you can imagine a world where he can give you an algorithm like he does with his artwork. And you can walk in, put your arm underneath this machine and get a unique generative piece by an artist that is one of one unique to you. As defined by an insanely famous artist. Imagine if Picasso had the tools in his day to say, I'm going to create an algorithm that is a bunch of crazy swirls and chaos that is my brain. You're a bank here, whoever. Banks or whoever. And you stick your arm in and you get a one of one Picasso. Like it's, it's, they're only doing three of them. This is a brand new machine brand new technology. And so that's why I'm out here to do a one of one Tyler Hobbs. Wild.
所以，这其实是Tyler以画给我一只麻雀开始的。而我喜欢麻雀的原因是因为在我看来，麻雀是我见过的最普通、最谦逊的鸟类。它让我想起我们都只是麻雀般的存在。我们不需要互相攀比。没有人比其他人更好。是的，我们都是普通的鸟类，我们都是人类，对吧？
然后他对这幅画应用了一个算法，将鸟的形象在三个图像中逐渐退化为像素化的形式。这太酷了。所以最后一个图像是他的最后一个算法，更像素化的版本。所以你可以想象明天我要在手臂上纹上这幅图案。等等，你明天要纹身吗？那是个什么？这只是一个模板。所以我今天想给你看看这个。好的。很酷。所以你可以想象在未来的世界里，这个模板能持续多久？你可以用一些酒精擦掉它，但它只是用来展示的。但你可以想象一个世界，他可以给你一个算法，就像他的艺术作品一样。你可以走进去，把手臂放在这个机器下面，得到一件由艺术家生成的独特作品，只有你一个人拥有。这是由一位极其著名的艺术家定义的作品。想象一下，如果毕加索在他那个时代有工具可以说，我要创造一个由我大脑中一堆疯狂的涡旋和混乱组成的算法。你作为一个银行，或者谁谁谁。你把手臂伸进去，得到一幅毕加索的独一无二的作品。只有三件作品。这是全新的机器、全新的技术。所以我出来是为了得到一件Tyler Hobbs的独一无二之作。真是太疯狂了。
With a sparrow. So that's cool. Black dot? Black dot. Yeah. Okay. That's a new kind of startup out here. Yeah, the us to man. There's a lot happening here. There's a lot happening. That's cool. It's so cool. Yeah. I want to show you the one they did of the Mona Lisa. It's amazing stuff. You don't have, do you have any tattoos at all? You don't know. I've been thinking about getting my first, which is why I asked about the stencil. So look at that. Oh yeah. It's like just the eyes of the Mona Lisa right there. Like, but look how high fidelity that is in the floor. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. That's pretty wild.
带着一只麻雀。所以很酷。黑点？黑点。是的。好的。这是一种新型的创业公司出现在这里。是的，我说的就是美国。这里正在发生很多事情。有很多事情正在发生。那太酷了。太酷了。是的。我想给你展示他们为蒙娜丽莎做的那个。这太惊人了。你有纹身吗？你不知道。我一直在考虑要做我的第一个纹身，所以我才问关于模版的事情。看那个。哦，是的。就在那里，蒙娜丽莎的眼睛。但是看看那个细节的高保真度。是的，太疯狂了。是的，太疯狂了。
So you've been thinking about getting one. I've been thinking about getting one for years, which would be Molly. Molly's paw prints on my forearm. But what was that? You would not. Are you serious? Yeah. That'd be kind of awesome. Yeah. How does Molly now? I was eight between eight and nine. The toaster is slowing down, man. Yeah. It's tough. It's so sad. There is nothing more heartbreaking than starting to see your dog start to go on the decline. Yeah. Like he's falling now. Like, oh, no. You don't have to take the podcast there, but yeah, no, but it's like, hey, toaster's been with the podcast since day one. You've been reaching in the cables.
所以你一直在考虑要养一只吧。我多年来一直在考虑要养一只，她就是莫莉。莫莉的爪印在我的前臂上。但那是什么意思？你不想要吗？你是认真的吗？是的，那会很棒。是的，莫莉现在怎么样呢？她当时是八九岁之间。烤面包机正在变慢，伙计。是的，这很艰难。看到你的狗开始走下坡路，没有比这更令人心碎的了。是的，就像他现在摔倒了。就像，哦，不。你没必要把播客带到这里，但是是的，烤面包机从一开始就在播客中。你一直在乱拔插头。
Oh, I do. I was just going to bring it up, man. Back in the day, this is still dig era, I guess. And we're at your apartment in San Francisco. I knew it was just a little pup chewing on the cables. Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. He's still kicking about. He's mentally sharp as shit, which is great, which is like nice. Yeah. It's nice to see him. I remember playing with him. Friendly toast. Yeah. What a great dog. Yeah.
哦，我是知道的。我刚想提起这件事呢，伙计。那时候还是挖掘机时代呢，我猜吧。我们在你在旧金山的公寓里。我知道只是一只小狗啃着电缆而已。是啊，我记得那件事。他还活得好好的。他的心智非常敏锐，这太好了，真好。见到他真是太好了。我记得和他一起玩。友好的问候。是啊，多么棒的狗啊。是啊。
So for me, I, it's hard for me to imagine a world or any circumstances in which I would regret having the paw prints on the arm. Yeah. And there are many other. How much does that dog meant for you, personally? Because like, I've seen you through multiple relationships. Dogs are like this thing that is just like this steadfast love. Yeah. Like, has it been a good, like, I mean, obviously it's been a must have been insane emotional lift for you to have an animal like that. Yeah. It's changed me fundamentally on so many different ways, I think. And it's not just the receipt of that love, which is, it's like a task in and of itself, right? I mean, like to, and I actually saw this at one point, somebody had sketched it on to this piece of wood and I came across it and it was like, your task in life is to learn how to love and be loved. That's it. And being loved is actually not straightforward for everyone, right? Learning to receive that in a way.
所以对我来说，很难想象有一天我会后悔在胳膊上有这些爪印。是的，还有很多其他的。那只狗对你个人意味着多少？因为，我见过你经历了多段恋爱关系。狗就像这种坚定的爱一样。是的。对你来说，拥有这样一只动物肯定给你带来了巨大的情感提升。是的。我觉得它从根本上改变了我，各个方面都有。这不仅仅是接受那份爱，这本身就是一个任务，对吧？我曾经看到有人把这句话画在一块木头上，我偶然看到了它，上面写着，“你生命中的任务就是学会如何去爱和被爱。就是这样。”而被爱对每个人来说都不是一件简单的事情，学会以一种方式接受爱。
So that has been a gift. But it's also been a practice of giving and thinking about someone else's welfare and having, say, a dog as a mirror also for yourself, where let's just say early on, when I was training, Molly, and I took training super seriously. Oh my God, I was there for that. Yeah. And I was, I ended up being pretty good at it and Molly's very well trained. But if she fucked up or made a mistake, I would get upset and you hit her. No, Jesus Christ. I did not hit my dog and beat her with a rod. So no, I wouldn't hit Molly, but I would get, I would get very frustrated. And then that would scare her. And not because I was flashing out, but I would just get so frustrated because I'd be like, God, this is the 37th time we've done this. And it was a mirror because Molly's not doing anything deliberately to piss me off. Right. That's ridiculous.
所以那成为了一份礼物。但它也同时是一种给予和关心他人福祉的实践，同时也是一种让自己成为狗这样的镜子的方式。比如说，早期我在训练莫莉时，我对训练非常认真。哦，天哪，我参与其中了。是的。而且我在这方面表现得相当不错，莫莉受过很好的训练。但如果她搞砸了或犯了错误，我会感到生气，然后打她。不，天啊。我没有打我的狗或用棍子打她。所以，不，我不会打莫莉，但我会感到非常沮丧。然后那会吓到她。并不是因为我发脾气了，而是因为我会变得非常沮丧，因为我会想，天哪，这已经是第37次我们做这个了。这其实是一种镜像，因为莫莉并不是故意惹我生气的。那是荒谬的。
It was an incredible reflection in the pond for me to see what was going on and to see what's going on with me. Right. Like, I'm short tempered. If you're with other people, you can weave a story to justify it. Right. Well, like they should know, like, God, I'm getting sleep and they know that and da, da, da, da, da. But it said, always have to be in the morning that they blah, blah, blah. You can, you can really spin a yarn to rationalize why you're upset with someone else, but a really loving, well-behaved dog you're kidding? Like, that's a you problem, pal. Like that is not a dog problem.
对我来说，凝视池塘里的倒影确实令人难以置信，我看到了周围发生的事情，也看到了自己的情况。是的，就像我脾气暴躁一样。如果在别人面前，你可以编一个故事来为自己辩解。是的，他们应该知道，天哪，我睡不够，他们知道这些废话。但是，总是要在早晨，他们这样那样的说辞。你可以编造一个故事来解释为什么你对别人生气，但是一个真正充满爱心、表现良好的狗，你开玩笑吧？那是你的问题伙计，不是狗的问题。
Yeah. And so on all of those levels, she's just been such a wonderful companion and teacher. And I was away from her for a few weeks recently for the first time because I was in South America. Yeah. Absolutely not the right place for a dog where I was in the middle of the jungle. And I really, really missed her. So I mean, I've gone, I'll really like take us there. But like when I think about, which I do pretty often, like when she has her decline and then passes, like it's heartbreaking for me to imagine. And I'm going to get a second dog almost certainly in the next year. That would be on my nearest resolutions too. And I've thought about this for a few years, but I've pushed it off because there's part of it that doesn't want to accept that Molly is mortal. So I've pushed it off and pushed it off. But it's it's good to do it on the sooner side because when they're older, like I could never enter these another dog to toaster right now. Yeah. Because these two to old that handle that puppy energy. Yeah. Versus if you did now, then that can kind of like you. And Molly's really good with puppies and she loves puppies. Yeah. So I'm going to do that very soon in the next year.
是的。在所有这些层面上，她都是一个很棒的伴侣和老师。最近我第一次离开她几个星期，因为我在南美洲。是的。绝对不是一个适合狗的地方，我当时在丛林深处。我真的非常想念她。所以我想，我可能会带我们去那里。但是当我想到她老去和离世的时候，我真的感到心痛。我几乎可以肯定在下一年我会养第二只狗。这也将成为我最亲近的新年计划。我考虑了几年，但一直推迟，因为有一部分不愿意接受莫莉是有限的事实。所以我一直在推迟，但尽早做这件事是好的，因为当它们年纪大时，我现在根本无法接受另一只狗对托斯特来说太年幼。是的。因为他们两个年纪大了，无法处理那种活力四溢的小狗。是的。但如果你现在养，它们可以照顾你。而莫莉对小狗非常好，她喜欢小狗。是的。所以我很快就会这样做，在接下来的一年内。
And I at one point was volunteering. It's a long story, but I was volunteering around wolves. And I was like preparing food and so on for these wolves, which were the ones that like doing the teeth and stuff. Yeah, which were being sort of rehabilitated and raised in captivity because they'd either been bred and raised in captivity, in which case they can't be released. Or there are any number of conditions that led to them being non-viable as wild releases. I saw one of the volunteers had, he was on his rib cage. He had a print from this wolf that he had known for years until that wolf passed away. And I thought to myself, you know what? I've never felt pulled to have a tattoo. And the fact that I have no tattoos is kind of novel now, which is funny, right? Yeah. You know, tattoos are pretty cool. Oh, you got to go to Jess, my lady. She's amazing. So I might, I might. And I thought, you know, I really have a hard time imagining regretting doing that. And I can also see it being a really valuable reminder of a lot.
我曾经参加志愿者工作，这是一个很长的故事，但我是在为狼提供志愿者服务。我负责为这些狼准备食物等，它们需要做些牙齿之类的事情。是的，它们正在被训练和养育在圈养环境中，因为它们要么是在圈养中繁殖和养育的，无法被释放；要么由于一些原因，它们无法在野外生存。我看到其中一名志愿者的胸腔上有一个狼的印记，他和那只狼相处了多年，直到那只狼去世。我想，你知道吗？我从来没有觉得自己有纹身的冲动。而且我没有纹身现在看起来有点新奇，很有趣对吧？是的，纹身很酷。哦，你得去找杰斯，她太厉害了。所以也许，我也会纹身。我觉得，我很难想象会后悔这样做，而且我还能看到它会成为一个很有价值的提醒。
Tim, I've got something for you. Listen to this. Tell me. You know, I said, someone was going to play at my birthday. Yes. Jess is going to be out there at the same time. Okay. Why don't you sign up to get the tattoo at the party? I mean, not at the party. Like the day before, the day after, something like that. And she is like booked out by like a year. Like she did Bruce Willis's tattoos. Like she's like, she's like legit. She's legit. All right. Jess, Jess Muschetti on Instagram, like, insane. All right. Now she's booked out for five years. I just just took it up strings. This has been on my list for a while. It's been on my list for a couple of years. And I think partially because I'm nervous. You would love her.
嗨Tim，我有件事要告诉你。听我说。你知道，我说过，有人会在我的生日上表演。是的。Jess也会在同一时间出现。那好吧。为什么不在派对上报名弄个纹身呢？我的意思是，不是在派对上弄，而是在派对前一天或者后一天之类的。而且她像已经排满了，大概要等一年。她给布鲁斯·威利斯纹过身，她很专业。好吧，是真的很专业。对了，Jess Muschetti在Instagram上，简直太厉害了。不过现在她排满了五年。我刚刚才知道的这个消息。这个纹身的想法在我的清单上已经有一段时间了，大概两年了。我想这部分是因为我紧张。你会喜欢她的。
Can I ask you a question? Yeah. I want to ask you a question that is a little bit more intimate just because we've had some tequila and we're talking about dogs and just kind of the companionship and what not speaking up kind of like New Year's resolutions and looking back on life. In the last 10 years, when it comes to both personal intimate, like relationships or private, what would you, if there's any one thing, what would you change about your interactions with either someone that you would been with on an intimate level or someone that like maybe it's like on a more kind of like, you know, friendship level? Is there anything that you can look back on and say, I would have done more of this?
我能问你一个问题吗？当然可以。我想问你一个相对私密一些的问题，因为我们已经喝了点龙舌兰酒，我们正在谈论狗以及它们的陪伴作用，也在谈论一些像新年愿望和回顾生活之类的事情。在过去的十年里，不论是在个人关系上还是在私人生活中，有没有什么一件事情是你希望改变的？比如在亲密关系中的互动，或者在更像友谊的关系中的互动？可以回顾一下过去，看看是否有什么事情你希望做得更多一些？
That is an exceptional question. And you know, when I was driving over here, I was thinking about another question. We have the ultimate cliffhanger and the crazy drug story. So maybe we'll get to that. Maybe we won't. Maybe we'll do the next episode. But I was thinking also, I was like, what would Kevin tell his, I'm going to answer your question. But I was thinking, what would Kevin tell his 30 year old self, like current Kevin, like do this, maybe not do so much of that. I thought that could be a fun exploration.
这是一个非常特别的问题。你知道，当我开车来这里的时候，我还在思考另一个问题。我们有一个引人入胜的悬念和疯狂的毒品故事。也许我们会在下一集讨论这些。但我也在想，凯文会告诉他30岁的自己什么，像现在这个凯文，他会说做这个，或者不要做那么多那个。我觉得这可能是一个有趣的探索。
With the interpersonal stuff, I think that I would say just because someone needs other things, things that are different from your needs does not make them high maintenance. And by the way, Tim, if they looked at you through the same lens, you were looking at them through, they would decide that you were high maintenance. So gather some tools, right? I would say read the five love languages as cheesy and schlocky as it might seem. That shit is so helpful as a framework for discussion, for identifying and easily labeling the different categories of needs that people might have, and putting them in some type of order.
在人际关系方面，我认为我会说，仅仅因为某人需要其他的东西，与你的需求不同，并不意味着他们是难伺候的。而且顺便说一句，如果他们用和你一样的眼光看待你，他们可能会认为你是难伺候的。所以，收集一些工具对吧？我会说，阅读《五种爱的语言》，尽管它可能看起来有些俗套和做作，但确实非常有帮助，作为一个讨论的框架，可以识别和便于标记人们可能有的不同需求的不同类别，并将它们按一定顺序排列。
Oh, interesting. You're a quality time person. Good to know. Number two would be this. You're a physical touch and then acts of service person as I am. These are shared vocabulary that you can use to really avoid and repair a lot of things. So I would say, handful of things. So gain Katie Hendricks, also conscious loving. There are a few books, if you resources, I would say, look, if you really care about someone, commit together to develop a shorthand, which allows you to not necessarily prevent. I don't think prevention is the key. I think repair is the key, right?
哦，有趣。你是一个质量时间的人。很好知道这一点。第二个是这样的。你是一个注重触碰和行为的人，就像我一样。这些是可以用来避免和修复很多事情的共同词汇。所以我会说，有一些事情，所以去读凯蒂·亨德里克斯（Katie Hendricks）的一些书吧，她也有意识到爱的想法。如果你有资源的话，我会说，如果你真的关心某个人，一起承诺发展一种简称，它可以让你不一定预防。我认为预防并不是关键，我认为修复才是关键，对吧？
Like if you're in a startup and you're like, well, let's just prevent all the bad things from happening. That's never going to work. Right. Shit's going to happen. And people are going to have bad days and you're going to say things you regret and they're going to be disagreements. And by the way, if there are no disagreements, something's wrong. Right. Right. I understand. And therefore having a shorthand and a set of agreements, right? Like these are the rules that we agree to play by. And we're not going to be perfect. I would say that would be very high on the list.
如果你在创业公司工作，你可能会想，好吧，让我们尽量防止发生所有不好的事情。但这是不可能的。对吧。糟糕的事情会发生。人们会有不好的一天，你会说出后悔的话，会发生分歧。而且顺便说一句，如果没有分歧，那就有问题了。对吧。对吧。我理解。因此，我们需要一套规则和约定，对吧？比如说，我们同意遵守这些规则。我们不可能完美无缺。我认为这会是最重要的事情之一。
And I would say for really close relationships, potentially, maybe why it's out, but who knows, MDMA assisted psychotherapy, let's just say anywhere from once a quarter to once a year, no more than once a quarter for a whole host of reasons. But I think that while MDMA assisted psychotherapy for PTSD is incredibly impressive and I've been very involved with that from, I don't want to say day one because that's not true, but certainly for the last 10 years or so, I've been very involved up through phase three and now onward. The results with treatment resistant PTSD is a complex PTSD where you see people who've had this diagnosis for 17 years, suddenly after two or three sessions end up asymptomatic, right? They would not meet the criteria for PTSD.
我会说，对于非常亲密的关系，用MDMA辅助心理疗法的频率可能是无法确定的，也许是为什么它出来的原因，但谁知道呢。我们只能说，大约每季度到每年使用一次，不要超过每季度使用一次这个频率，出于很多原因。但我认为，尽管MDMA辅助心理疗法治疗创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）令人印象深刻，我一直与之密切相关，虽然不能说从一开始就参与其中，但至少过去10年左右，我一直在参与第三阶段及以后的工作。在治疗难治性PTSD和复杂PTSD方面，结果是让人复杂的，你会看到那些已经被诊断为这种疾病17年的人，在经历两三次会话后突然没有症状了，也就是说他们不再满足PTSD的诊断标准了。
Right. With durability out to six, nine, 12 months, it's something that almost defies belief, right? It is causing a complete reexamination of psychiatry as we know it. I still think that is second place to couples work when it comes to MDMA. I think that that is that is an incredibly fruitful arena for seeing the full potential of MDMA psychotherapy. So that would be another one because sometimes, oftentimes couples end up, and I know multiple people now who have had this experience with professional guidance, which by the way, folks currently is legal. So before warrant, there are legal consequences or at least risks entailed with this, not to mention the fact that at least, I would say 60 to 70% of MDMA that you might purchase is adulterated or mixed with something else at this point. So you need to be very careful. Dance safe.org is a resource I would recommend for testing kits and so on. If you're going to go that route, I'm not recommending you do anything illegal. However, people are going to do it. International listeners are going to people are going to do it anyway. I just recognize it's like you can't just say to every teenager, don't have sex. Kids are going to have sex. So let's be realistic about it.
是的。耐久性长达六个、九个、十二个月，这几乎让人难以置信，对吧？这正引起对我们所知的精神病学的全面重新评估。我仍然认为，当谈到MDMA时，它仅仅排在夫妻治疗的第二位。我认为，那是一个非常有成果的领域，可以展示MDMA心理疗法的全部潜力。因此这算是另一个原因，因为有时候，很多夫妻最终在专业指导下进行治疗，顺便说一句，这是合法的。所以在考虑到合法后果，或者至少存在风险之前，我认为至少60%到70%的MDMA目前被掺杂或与其他物质混合。所以你需要非常谨慎。我建议你使用测试工具等资源，例如Dance safe.org。如果你要选择这条路，我没有建议你做任何非法的事情。然而，人们会去做的。国际听众肯定会去做的。我们只需要认识到，我们不能对每个青少年说“不要发生性行为”。孩子们会发生性行为的，所以我们要实事求是。
I did that shit one time. It's fun. It's sex. No. When I was 23, I did a, well, they were kind of ecstasy back then, but like, holy shit. Yeah. No compound. Yeah. And that can go, that can also go sideways just for for a record. Yeah. So like there are films out there now, how to change your mind, the mini series on Netflix, watch the MDMA episode. It is excellent. Yeah. And it's pretty heavy because it gets into some PTSD, but you'll be able to see live session footage if you want another alternative or compliment. He's great. And there is also a doc called trip of compassion, which is worth seeing, which has a lot of session footage as well. But those are a few of the things that would come to mind. And I was saying on a friendship level, I might suggest to my earlier self, let's just say 30 year old self, right? Something that I have really embraced and put into action in the last handful of years, which is going to sound a little anti social, but I don't view it that way.
我做过那种事情一次。很有趣，跟性有关。不，当我23岁的时候，我做过一些叫做摇头丸的东西，简直是太神奇了。是的，没有混合物。而且对于记录来说，这也可能出问题。所以现在有一些电影，比如Netflix上的《如何改变你的心智》迷你系列，你可以看看摇头丸的那一集，非常精彩。但会涉及一些创伤后应激障碍，所以如果你想要其他的选择或补充，也可以看一下现场影片。他很棒。还有一部叫做《慈悲之旅》的纪录片，也很值得看，里面有很多现场影片。但这只是我个人的想法，如果我和我年轻时的自己是朋友的话，我可能会建议我30岁的时候，去实施近几年来我真正拥抱并付诸行动的一些事情，虽然听起来有点不合群，但我并不这么看。
Humans have a finite capacity for building and sustaining really deep relationships. You just can't do that with everyone. And when I've looked back, say, and I do this every year at a past year review, and I look back at my calendar every week of my last year. And on a piece of paper with positive and negative two columns, I write down the peak and peak negative and positive experiences. If I look at the commonalities for the peak positive experiences, it's usually the same 10 people or fewer, right? It's the same cast of characters. These are my close friends who are nourishing, supportive, good influence.
人类在建立和维持真正深厚关系方面有着有限的能力。你无法和每个人都做到这一点。当我回顾过去的时候，比如每年一次的回顾，我会翻看我去年的日历。然后在一张纸上，分为正面和负面两栏，我会写下那些让人高兴和不高兴的经历。如果我看看那些高兴的经历有什么共同点，通常都是同样的十个或更少的人，对吧？他们是我的亲密朋友，给予我滋养、支持和积极影响。
And before what I would say to my younger self is before you seek to develop a bunch of new relationships, ask yourself, are you spending enough time as much time as you would like with the people on that shortlist who you know are guaranteed to be nourishing for you. And if the answer is no, maybe you should double down on those relationships. Maybe you should reach out to those people to get something on the calendar before shit crowded out before you look for shiny objects in new relationships, which doesn't mean I don't develop new relationships. I occasionally do, but I'm at a point where I think recognizing the ephemeral nature of life, the finite limits, the constraints that we have is actually very enabling. It helps you to make cleaner, faster decisions. So for me, I would just say, before seeking to develop new deep relationships, ask yourself the question for my closest five friends, let's just say, in the last year, did I spend as much time as I would like with those people? If the answer is no, reach out to those five first. Yeah. Yeah. What about you?
在我对年轻时的自己说之前，我想说，在你试图建立一堆新的关系之前，问问自己，你是否花足够多的时间与那些你知道对你有益的人一起。如果答案是否定的，或许你应该再加倍珍惜那些关系。也许你应该先联系那些人，在时间被其他事情填满之前安排一些计划，而不是去寻求新的关系，这并不意味着我不发展新的关系。偶尔我也会这么做，但我现在意识到生命的短暂性，有限的局限性，实际上是非常有益的。它帮助你做出更干净、更快速的决策。所以对我来说，我只想说，在寻求建立新的深层次关系之前，先问问自己这个问题，对于我最亲密的五个朋友，可以这么说，在过去的一年里，我是否与这些人花了我想要的多少时间在一起？如果答案是否定的，先联系这五个人。你呢？
Oh, man, I would say, honestly, I think that we're at the age now where every day just brings a new unknown in terms of like, how long are we going to last? I've had multiple friends with cancer now. I had one friend that I almost lost this year that was in the emergency room for weeks that we thought had stage four cancer and ended up being a horrible bacterial infection from some foreign country. And it's just like, I remember this. I just realized like, there's so many times when we hang out and we just give a hug and say, oh, good to see you. Like, well, but we don't say I love you. Yeah. We don't say, you know, I you are so essential to me in so many ways. And maybe it's the ketamine talking. But when I went through this whole thing with the ketamine therapy, I realized like at the end of the day, love is the, it's gonna sound cheesy, but it is like it is the most important thing that we tell each other and that we feel for each other. And like, you can really feel that and you say, this person is like so important. I mean, you let them know that and you feel it back. I don't know what what's better than that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. What's more human than that too, right? Yeah. In a way, I mean, like love, you know, you can observe affection and love in many other species, but the ability to verbalize it and express it. Yeah. Do you feel that psychedelic springs that out of you? Because like, when I did the therapy, I had more love in me than I've had in so long. Do you feel that's a commonality amongst like psychedelics to like have a sense of just gratitude for existence?
哦，伙计，老实说，我觉得我们现在的年纪已经到了每一天都带来新的未知的阶段，比如，我们还能活多久？我有好几个朋友得过癌症。今年有一个朋友差点就失去了，他在急诊室待了几个星期，我们以为他得了第四期癌症，结果却是来自某个外国的可怕的细菌感染。我记得这个情况。我突然意识到我们经常在一起时，只是随便拥抱一下说声好久不见，但我们从来不说我爱你。是的。我们从不说，你在我生活中是多么重要。也许这是受氯胺酮影响说的话。但是经过氯胺酮疗法后，我意识到，爱是最重要的事情，尽管听起来有点俗套，但这是我们彼此之间最需要告诉和感受的东西。而且，你真的可以感受到，并且说，这个人是如此重要，你让他们知道，他们也会感受到。我不知道还有什么比这更好的了，你知道吗？是的。是的。还有什么比这更人性化呢？是的。在某种程度上，我是说爱，你知道，你可以在许多其他物种中观察到情感和爱，但能够用言语表达和表现出来。是的。你觉得迷幻药对你能唤起这种感觉吗？因为当我接受治疗时，我心中充满了这么久以来都没有的爱。你觉得这是迷幻药代用品之间的共性，对存在感到感激呢？
For sure. I think it's I think it's very common. It's it's not always across the board. I mean, I would say that this might be a controversial statement, but the psychedelics to me are similar to there's a lot more to it, which we'll probably dive into, but kind of like alcohol or power or money in the sense that they magnify what's already there. And their term you sometimes hear is a non-specific amplifier. So I don't think that at all, there's no compelling evidence to me that psychedelics, if put in the drinking water, produce world peace, there's no evidence for that. Right.
当然。我认为这是很常见的。但并不是对所有人都适用。我的意思是，我认为这可能是一个有争议的观点，但对我来说，迷幻药物与其他东西相似，这方面还有很多要探讨，比如酒精、权力或金钱，它们能够放大已经存在的东西。有时你会听到一个术语叫做非特异性放大器。所以我并不认为，如果把迷幻药物加入饮用水中，就能实现世界和平，这方面没有任何证据。
I mean, you have plenty of civilizations. Maybe lithium though. No, no, no, no. Remember there was a member. I remember. Yeah, a little bit of lithium goes a long way. Yeah. Yeah. People can look this up. We'll try to find there's some. There's a study that people the populations where there is more lithium naturally found in the drinking water have lower rates of suicide anywhere else. All sorts of stuff. Yeah. So we'll see what we can find to put in the show notes. I do think low dose lithium is pretty interesting. Very low dose psychedelics are non-specific amplifier. There are many cases of civilizations where they had human sacrifice, played soccer with human heads, and they consume psychedelics. I still sacrifice people. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, that's me all day. You know, every once in a while on solstice. I mean, it's, I think it's all fair game, but the feeling of gratitude and love, I think for a lot of people who wish to enable that to experience it more, who have the conscious or subconscious desire to rekindle those things, the experience you're describing is very common.
我的意思是，你有很多文明。也许锂是个好选择。不，不，不，不。记得有个成员。我记得。是的，少量的锂可以产生很大的影响。是的，是的。人们可以查阅相关资料。我们会尽力找到一些相关研究。据说，自然水源中含有更多锂的地方，自杀率较低。还有很多其他的发现。是的。所以我们会看看能不能在节目注释中找到相关资料。我确实认为低剂量的锂很有趣。非常低剂量的致幻剂是一种非特定的放大剂。有很多文明的例子，他们进行人祭，用人头踢足球，还吸食致幻剂。我仍然祭祀人类。是的。就像，你知道的，整天都是我。你知道，偶尔在冬至时。我觉得这一切都是公平的，但对于很多渴望体验感激和爱的人们来说，你所描述的经历非常普遍。
Yeah. For sure. And I think part of that is the dissolution. This isn't true of all experiences, but the dissolution of self and consequently, the felt sense of unity with many or all things, which leads you to feel for most people less alone. Yeah. Which leads you to feel quite grateful because to state the obvious, I suppose, I mean, the despite the fact that we're more connected than ever with loose ties, I think a lot of people suffer from anxiety and depression that is highly correlated to feeling of isolation. So when you can remedy that by feeling the exact polar opposite in some of these states, not necessary, but helpful, that the end result of that is a feeling of gratitude. For sure. Awesome. Yeah. What was the before we wrap things up because I know we're coming to the end and you still have some just a give it a thing. What was the cliffhanger you said you wanted to tell us?
是的，当然。我认为其中一部分是自我的解散。这并非所有经历都如此，但是自我解散及由此带来的对许多或所有事物的统一感，使你感到比大多数人少寂寞。是的。这使你感到非常感激，因为显而易见，尽管我们与宽松的关系比以往更加紧密，但我认为许多人患有与孤独感高度相关的焦虑和抑郁症。因此，当你能通过某些状态（不是必要的，但有帮助）来弥补这一点时，最终的结果是感恩之情。当然。太棒了。是的。在我们结束之前，因为我知道我们即将结束，你还有一些东西要说，请告诉我们你想要告诉我们的悬念。
Yeah. So I'll try to keep it short. I mean, I'll let you I'll tell you what, I'll keep it short and then you can excavate. Okay. As you like, I love to excavate. All right. So as you know, for the last year, I've been crippled by lower back issues. I mean, I've I've had trouble there are days when I've had trouble getting up and walking. I mean, it's been that bad. Yeah. And to be honest, Tim, you first told me about this, like eight years ago or something. Remember when you got those injections or something? Sure. Like you were like, I think I have degenerative disc disease. Yeah. Yeah. So I've had lower back issues for a long time. This is also a congenital issue. So I have what's called a transitional segment. In other words, there's a segment in my lumbar, there vertebra in my lumbar area that really mimic a sacral vertebral segment. And that's problematic for a host of reasons creates an abnormal angle. And if you can imagine just bending the paper clip over and over again in ways that it shouldn't be that that's sort of the feeling in the low back. And my brother has this, there are other people in my family who have this issue.
是的，我会试着说得简短一些。我的意思是，我会告诉你，我会简洁地表达，然后你可以深入了解。好的，随你喜欢，我喜欢深入了解。好的。所以你知道，过去一年，我的腰部问题一直很严重。我的意思是，有时我都难以起身行走。是的，情况很糟糕。而且说实话，Tim，你早在八年前左右就告诉过我这个问题。记得你打过那些针吗？没错。你说你可能患有退行性椎间盘病变。是的，我很长时间以来一直有腰部问题。这也是一种先天性问题。我的腰椎区有一个过渡性节段，实际上模仿了骶椎节段。这对许多问题都有影响，会导致异常的角度。你可以想象将曲别针弯曲多次，以一种不应有的方式，低背部就是那种感觉。我的兄弟也有这个问题，我家还有其他人也有同样的问题。
So standing extended slow walking like a museum walk cocktail party type of experience can be very painful, like the low back locks up. But in the last year, specifically had all sorts of issues and all sorts of MRIs and specialists and PT and adjustments and traction and this, that and the other thing. And it was a disaster and it caused it. Well, let me give myself a little more agency. I created a lot of anxiety around this because I was like, fuck, is this the new normal? Right. Is this really the new normal where? Well, because you project forward, like what is five years from now? Yeah, I'm like, I'm not that old, and I'm pretty active in your skincare is amazing. My skincare is amazing. I saw your Instagram video video. You know what's funny? Sidebar is how much time you can spend on like a blog post six, six months to put together.
站立时间长、缓慢行走，就像参观博物馆或举办鸡尾酒会一样的经历可能非常痛苦，就像腰部突然僵硬了一样。但在过去的一年里，我遇到了各种问题，进行了各种核磁共振检查、看了各种专家、接受了物理治疗、调整和牵引等，结果一团糟。好吧，让我自己多负责点。这样的情况在我身上带来了很多焦虑，我在想，是不是这就是新常态了？对，这真的是新的常态吗？那会导致我未来五年怎样？是啊，我还不算老，我很活跃，你的护肤品真是太棒了。我的护肤品也非常棒。我看到了你的Instagram视频。你知道有趣的地方是，你可以花多少时间来制作一篇博客文章，有时需要六个月。
Yeah. And it's like you get like crickets and a fart in the wind and then nobody ever reads it again. And then someone in your team is like, you know what? People ask about your skincare. Let's grab a couple clips and throw it up and it goes bananas. I'm on Instagram and the first thing pops up to me is like, Hi, I'm Tim Ferris. People ask me about my skincare regimen. Let me tell you, I use Bronner's natural soap. It's like, it's like, what the fuck is going to come into? Yeah. So here we are. Here we are folks. Your skin looks amazing. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Coming back to the main through line here, terrifying experience with the back. And I had more or less given up. I was I was in the stage of grief where I was trying to get past denial and accept that this might be the new normal because no one could figure it out. And a lot of the advice I received, many of the diagnoses were conflicting.
是的。就好像你在风中听到了蟋蟀和一个屁声，然后再也没有人读过它。然后你的团队中有人说：“你知道吗？人们问起你的护肤品。我们来找几个剪辑上传，肯定会引起轰动。”我在Instagram上，第一件事情就是看到：“嗨，我是蒂姆·费里斯。人们问我护肤的方法。让我告诉你，我用的是布朗纳天然香皂。”就像，就像，到底发生了什么？是的，我们就是这样。我们就是这样的伙计们。你的皮肤看起来很棒。谢谢。谢谢。谢谢。回到主线，我有一次与背部的可怕经历。我几乎已经放弃了。我正在尝试跨越否认，接受这可能是新的正常状态，因为没有人能搞清楚。我收到的很多建议，很多诊断都互相矛盾。
And then decided, in part, because of this, to do a few things. And part of that was going to South America, which I'm not recommending, there are a lot of risks down in South America. It's generally like safety fifth. It's not safety first. So people get into a lot of trouble. But I went down and did this, did this training, which involved consuming much plants also involved fasting for a week. Also involved water fast water fast. Also days. Yeah. Also involved during that week, really not sitting and standing very little. So it was either hammock or caught basically. And I'm mentioning these things because they're confounders, translating that into basic English. That means that I can't really point back to one thing and say, this is what caused what I'm going to describe. But the during the first experience, which happened to be with ayahuasca, which is a huge gun. It's, I think, treated very casually by people who do not realize what they're signing up for.
然后决定，部分是因为这个原因，做一些事情。其中一部分是去南美洲，我不推荐这样做，因为南美洲有很多风险。安全通常排在第五位，而不是第一位。所以人们很容易陷入麻烦。但是我去了那里，并进行了培训，其中包括食用大量植物，还包括禁食一周，还有喝水进行快速禁食。同时，那一周几乎不坐也很少站立。所以基本上要么躺在吊床上要么靠在墙上。我提到这些事情是因为它们是干扰因素，用简单的英语来解释就是，我不能真正指出一个原因并说，这就是我要描述的事情的原因。但是在第一次经历中，碰巧是与阿亚荣草一起的，这是一种强力药物。我认为人们对此看得太轻松了，他们没有意识到他们报名参加的是什么。
I do not recommend it to most people as my ex who's going to become relevant in a second. Would tell you, I talk many, many, many more people, nine out of 10, out of, I'm not going to mention her name, but out my most recent ex out of using ayahuasca. Then I talk into using ayahuasca. Like nine out of 10, I say, you should not proceed. Do not pass go for a lot of reasons. But in this particular case, had a very, very, very difficult experience. And I can kind of rank order my hardest experiences over the last decade plus. And this would be the third most difficult, maybe the second for different characteristics, which is saying a lot. And there was a point at which in that experience, all I could imagine was having my head in the lap of my ex. Like, that's all I wanted. It was the only thing I could even visualize because I was in the impact zone. I was just getting hit by 100 foot waves from every angle. And there was no respite. It was 10 out of 10. There was no wave, meaning it didn't ebb and flow. It was just 10 out of 10 volume from peak until end of the night, effectively. It was, it was unusual and incredibly difficult. And that was true for everyone in the session.
我不建议大部分人使用阿亚华斯卡，因为我将要提到的前任很快会变得重要。我和非常非常非常多的人谈过，有十分之九的人，我不会提到她的名字，但是我最近的前任使用过阿亚华斯卡。然后我又和使用阿亚华斯卡的人谈论。十分之九的人，我会告诉他们不应该继续。有很多原因，不要继续前进。但是在这个特定的案例中，我经历了非常非常非常艰难的经历。而且我可以为过去十年多来我最难熬的经历排个序。这可能是第三艰难的，也许对于不同的特征来说是第二艰难的，这可不容小觑。在那个经历中，有一个时刻我能想象的只有把头放在我前任的腿上。那是我唯一想要的事情。因为我处在冲击区。我只是被来自各个角度的100英尺高的海浪打击着。没有任何喘息的机会。这是十分之十。它没有退潮，也没有起伏。只是从巅峰到整个晚上结束一直是十分之十的强度。这非常非常不寻常也非常艰难。而且对于那次体验中的每个人来说都是如此。
Is shaman mixed the wrong? This guy's famous for having a brew that just cripples people and like, yeah, I mean, there are a lot of other full time clinicians from indigenous traditions will not drink his brew. I'll put it that way. Jesus. And coming back to the point of the story, I'm imagining, you know, the only thing I can envision is this woman holding my head and consoling me. That's the only thing I can imagine. And then I realized that for a year, because we separated a bit over a year ago. And this was totally subconscious, right? It wasn't a decision on my part. But I realized I had not allowed myself to feel the complete, obliterating heartbreak that was in fact, the core response to that separation. Right? Like I'd not allowed myself to fear from previous from that separation. Right? Like, in other words, my psyche had seemingly protected me because of my history of depression, right? Which I've come to manage better than ever before.
萨满是否搞错了？这家伙以他的“病人致残”酿酒而出名，是啊，我的意思是，有很多其他从土著传统中走出的全职医生都不会喝他的酒。我就这么说吧。天哪。回到故事的核心，我想象着，你知道的，我唯一能想象的就是这个女人抱着我的头安慰我。这是我唯一能想象到的。然后我意识到，因为我们分开已经有一年多了。这完全是下意识的，对吗？这不是我自己的决定。但我意识到我没有让自己感受到那种完全摧毁心碎的感觉，那才是对分离的核心反应。对吧？就像我从那次分离中没有让自己恐惧。换句话说，我的心灵似乎因为我对抑郁症的历史有所保护，对吗？而我比以往任何时候都更好地处理了这个问题。
Like each year, I'm better able to manage it. And it's less and less frequent. It's less and less intense. But nonetheless, let's face the facts and college almost killed myself. Right? So there was a, there was a fear, at least subconsciously, that because of this separation, because of starting over at square one, that I could spiral into a deep depression and that could be dangerous. So my psyche protected me from that by not letting me feel the sadness, the pain, to the extent that ended up being important, which I realized in this moment.
像每年一样，我越来越能够管理它。并且它越来越不频繁，也越来越不强烈。但是不管怎样，让我们来面对事实，大学几乎让我丧命。对吧？所以至少在潜意识里，我有一种恐惧，担心因为这种分离，因为从零开始，我会陷入深深的抑郁，这可能是危险的。所以我的心灵通过不让我感受到那种悲伤、痛苦，来保护我。而这在这一刻我意识到是非常重要的。
So I allowed myself to soak in it in that moment. My trip reports are so fucking boring, most of the time, and I apologize to people who might be listening and thinking, go here we go again, because I get it. Trust me. But in this particular case, I experienced something I've never experienced as soon as I soaked in that. And I really soaked in it. It was awful. It was so dark and so heavy. And then I felt my back release. And literally, I've been 90 plus percent pain free since that fucking moment. And it blows my mind because at that point, I couldn't explain it with the fast, because the fast and ketones are highly anti-inflammatory. And I think that they actually played a role, hold on, in the durability of things. But the fact that there was an immediate release is interesting. It is interesting. I can't explain that through fasting. I can't explain that through the just being recumbent, laying down for seven days, because that was yet to come. And I would say that I made a tactical error in the last few weeks, which is, I was like, fuck man, I'm all good. And so I've neglected some of the basic self-care and strengthening and PT, which I think is important because my low back and QL and so on, which are some of the surrounding muscles, have atrophied over the last year of avoiding working with the back. There was that experience. And for people who may be interested in delving into this a little bit more, there is a book. I don't agree with everything in the book, but it is interesting in the sense that it was written by a Western trained MD who ended up then opening a healing clinic in South America, focused on ayahuasca and diets, which you will read about if you get into the book called the Fellowship of the River.
所以在那一刻，我允许自己沉浸其中。我的旅行报告大部分时间都是他妈的无聊，对于那些可能在听的人，我感到抱歉，他们可能在想，又来了，因为我明白。相信我。但在这种特殊情况下，当我沉浸其中时，我经历了我从未经历过的东西。而且我真的沉浸其中。那真是糟透了。它是如此黑暗而沉重。然后我感到我的背部松开了。从那一刻开始，我真的已经90%以上摆脱了疼痛。这真让我难以置信，因为那时，我无法用节食来解释这一点，因为节食和酮体具有很强的抗炎作用。我认为它们实际上在事物的持久性方面起了作用。但有一个立即的释放是有趣的。这是有趣的。我无法通过禁食来解释这一点。我无法通过仅仅躺在那里七天来解释这一点，因为那还没有发生。我要说的是，我在过去几周犯了一个战术性错误，那就是，我以为自己一切都好。所以我忽视了一些基本的自我保健和加强和物理治疗，我认为这很重要，因为我低背和疼痛的肌肉在过去一年中因避免与背部工作而萎缩了。那是我的经历。对于那些可能对这个有兴趣的人，有一本书。我不同意书中的一切，但它很有趣，因为它是由一个接受西方训练的医生写的，后来他在南美开办了一个注重阿亚荒沙和饮食的治疗中心。如果你读了这本书《河流之友》，你将会了解更多。
So I found that book quite interesting on a number of levels. But the reason I bring this all up, number one, people had recommended this book, I think it was called Healing Low Back Pain. I may be getting the title slightly wrong, could be fixing low back pain, but it's by Dr. Sarno, John Sarno. And this book was recommended to me. I've read it before. And the general gist is it's all in your head. Now, I took great offense at parts of this book, and a lot of it is scientifically indefensible. So he, unfortunately, I threw the baby out with the bathwater a bit because he sends a, he says a bunch of things that are ridiculous. And he cites these success statistics for his method while simultaneously saying, if I interview someone and they say they're not open to A, B, or C, I omit them from my treatment. And I'm like, okay, well, wait a second, your selection of biases out of control. Yeah.
所以我发现这本书在许多方面都很有意思。但我提到这一切的原因是，首先，有人推荐给我这本书，我想它叫《治愈腰背痛》。我可能记错了书名，可能是《解决腰背痛》，但它是由约翰·萨诺博士（John Sarno）撰写的。有人向我推荐了这本书，我之前也读过它。总的来说，它的要点就是「问题都出在你的头脑里」。现在，我对这本书的某些部分非常反感，其中很多都在科学上站不住脚。所以不幸的是，我有些错误地就整个书都否定了，因为他说了一些荒谬的话。他引用了他的治疗方法的成功统计数据，同时又说，如果我采访某个人时，他们表示不愿意接受A、B或C，我就把他们从我的治疗中排除在外。那我就想，好吧，等等，你选择的偏见太严重了。是的。
I wanted to bring this up because that book has helped a lot of people, despite its flaws, and not everyone will at any point want to consume Ayahuasca, which I would advise against for 90 plus percent of the population. See, it can be very destabilizing for a lot of people and very risky. I would say there are a lot of things you should do beforehand, right? Like, try the talk therapy, try holotropic breathwork, consider after speaking with doctors, ketamine. After that, you can consider other tools. But Ayahuasca should be like, let's do a fifth on your wrist show on Ayahuasca. Is that possible? Yeah, possibly. Yeah, Ayahuasca would be like fifth or sixth on the list of progressions. It would not be first. But I would say the Sarno books are interesting. I know they've helped people like Brian Koppelman, who's been on the podcast, amazing writer, who was the co-creator of Billions, among others, rounders, etc. And it's something that I've always, in theory, agreed with. Yes, we store stress. That can have physiological effect. There are auto-unis orders that I think are intimately linked with different types of psychological disturbances.
我想提出这个问题，因为那本书尽管有缺点，但为很多人提供了帮助，而且并不是每个人都会想要体验阿亚瓦斯卡，我会建议其中90%以上人不要尝试。你知道，对很多人来说，这可能会导致很大的不稳定性和风险。所以，在此之前，有很多其他的事情你应该尝试一下，对吧？比如，试试谈话疗法，试试全息呼吸法，在与医生交流后再考虑用氯胺酮。之后，你可以考虑其他工具。但是阿亚瓦斯卡应该是像“让我们在你腕上做一个第五次的阿亚瓦斯卡展示”这样的事情。这可能吗？嗯，有可能。是的，阿亚瓦斯卡应该是进步列表中的第五或第六项，而不是第一项。但我可以说萨诺的书很有意思。我知道它们帮助过一些人，比如布莱恩·科普曼，他曾经在播客中出现过，是一位了不起的作家，也是《亿万》和其他一些作品的联合创作者，比如《终极赌徒》等。而且从理论上讲，我一直都同意这一点。是的，我们会储存压力，这会对身体产生生理影响。我认为自主神经失调与不同类型的心理疾病有密切关联。
So you can address the problem kind of from the physiological side first. Of course, the brain isn't entirely separate. There's no kind of Cartesian separation of mind and body. So yes, the brain is physiological, but you can attack it through content in a way, or you can attack it through pharmaceuticals and physiology first. I think you can go both ways. But the Sarno book, I think, is worth a lot of people reading.
所以你可以先从生理的角度来解决这个问题。当然，大脑并不完全独立。心智和身体并没有笛卡尔的分离。所以，是的，大脑是生理的，但你可以通过内容的方式进行干预，或者你可以先从药物和生理方面入手。我认为你可以两种方式兼施。但是Sarno的书，我认为值得很多人阅读。
The second thing I'll mention, which is very, very simple and tactical. If you have lower back pain, I'm shocked to take me this long to figure it out. And say sitting on hard chairs bothers you, or lumbar support helps you. For a year, I've been going to restaurants and asking if they have a cushion. Do you have a cushion or pillow or something I can use to fix fucked up seating situations? This is the solution right here. This is it. This is a Pilates ball. This is a pro-body Pilates. It doesn't really matter. But honestly, this thing folds up six in your pocket. I've been traveling with it. I've had it behind my back the whole time. And like, great for first dates, great for first dates, ladies love Pilates balls. And I, but I will say, for instance, like the last time I did a podcast in this seat, I did not use this. And my back was fucking killing me afterwards. But the killing me afterwards is not just an issue for today. That's an issue that causes inflammation that fucks up my sleep for three or four days. Use this ball, no problem. I can put it behind my back, or I can put it under my ass. And it folds up and fits in your pocket. So anyway, folks, there you have it from the sublime to the ridiculous Pilates ball. Amazing.
我要提到的第二件事非常简单而实用。如果你有腰背疼痛，我惊讶自己花了这么长时间才明白这一点。比如说坐在硬椅子上让你不舒服，或者腰部支撑对你有帮助。一年来，我去餐厅都会问他们有没有垫子。你们有没有垫子或者枕头之类的东西可以解决座椅不合适的问题？这就是解决方案。这就是普拉提球。可以是专业的普拉提球，也可以是普通的普拉提球，都无所谓。但说实话，这个东西可以折叠成六分之一大小放进口袋里。我一直带着它旅行。我一直把它放在背后。而且非常适合第一次约会，女士们喜欢普拉提球。但是我要说的是，就像我上次在这个座位上做播客时，我没有用到它。之后我的背真是疼得要命。但这种疼痛不仅仅是今天的问题。它会引起炎症，影响我三四天的睡眠。使用这个球，没有问题。我可以把它放在背后，也可以放在屁股下。而且它可以折叠变小，放进口袋里。总而言之，朋友们，用于普拉提球，这就是从崇高到荒谬的最佳选择。
Alright, how are we doing? Any other topics? I feel pretty good. Next time we'll get to what you would tell your 30 year old self. Anything you'd like to add in that category? No, I just, you know, I think if we are, we wrap it up now. Cause I'd like to say some wrapping up comments. Wrapping up comments, please. Yeah. So my wrapping up comments would be this. I recently went out to dinner with five close friends of mine, who of which you know, most of them just like the crew, the Wu tank land. Yeah. Just good friends. And one of the things I did is I went around the circle and I said a few words of gratitude. And I think to my earlier point, one of the things that's really important to me after coming out of this therapy is just this vulnerability that allows us to speak from the heart because we don't know what tomorrow brings. And I just want to say that, Tim, you have been a friend of mine for so long now. And I have appreciated the fact that my career has been a series of ups and downs and all over the place. And you have been a steadfast friend, someone that sends me some of the funniest videos I've ever seen in my life always keeps it like lighthearted and fun. But I know that you care deeply about me and I just want to let you know that I love you and I care deeply about you. And I will always be here to have your back and I'm wishing you a fantastic new year. I hope that you hit all these milestones and more that you want to hit because I know that you are someone that I've always looked up to and someone that is just so inspirational to us all that listened to your show and your podcast because you inspire us to do more and to be better humans. And I just want to let you know that that's that means a lot to me and I love you.
好的，我们怎么样了？还有其他话题吗？我感觉挺好的。下次我们将谈谈你会告诉你30岁的自己的事情。在这个类别中有什么想要补充的吗？不，就是，你知道的，如果我们现在结束的话。因为我想说一些总结性的评论。总结性的评论，请。是的。我的总结性评论是这样的。最近我和五个亲密的朋友一起出去吃饭，他们中的大部分都像团队一样，就像武汉坦克一样。是的。只是好朋友们。其中一件事是我在朋友圈里说了几句感谢的话。我认为，根据我之前的观点，对我来说非常重要的一件事就是这种脆弱性，它让我们能够从内心说话，因为我们不知道明天会带来什么。我只想说，Tim，你已经是我的朋友很久了。我很欣赏的是，我的职业生涯一直是起起伏伏的，到处都是。而你一直都是一个可靠的朋友，总是给我发一些我一生中看过的最有趣的视频，总是保持轻松和有趣。但我知道你非常关心我，我只想让你知道我爱你，真心关心你。我会永远支持你，祝你有一个美好的新年。我希望你能实现你想要实现的所有里程碑，更多的里程碑，因为我知道你是一个我一直仰慕的人，也是一个激励我们所有人去做更多、成为更好人的人。我只是想让你知道，这对我来说意义重大，我爱你。
Well, thanks, Kevin. That's amazing. That makes my night and happy to say it.
嗯，谢谢，凯文。太棒了！这让我的晚上变得愉快，我很高兴能这样说。
Yeah, it's the truth. I love you too, man. Our friendship has been such a such a constant for me. Such a lifeline in a way with all the ups and downs and holy shit.
是的，这是事实。兄弟，我也爱你。我们的友谊对我来说一直是如此的恒久。在这一切起伏和诸多困难中扮演了一个支持系统的角色，简直就像一根救命稻草。
I mean, both of us have had some pretty wily ups and downs. You've had a lot of hot chicks. You did. I didn't see that coming. When you talked about ups and downs, I was like, you've got a lot of ups, my friend.
我的意思是，我们俩都经历过很多起起伏伏。你曾有过很多美女，你是的。我完全没有料到。当你谈到起起伏伏时，我就想，你真是好运不断，伙计。
Yeah, I mean, I've looked. That's one category. That's a one category. And I had a light up the moon a little bit and I'm and I'm grateful for that. And you know, life is like box chocolates, right? You just never know what's around the corner. It's true. And that's why it's important to say these things.
是的，我的意思是，我已经找过了。那只是一个类别。只是一个类别而已。我必须点亮月亮，我对此感到感激。你知道，生活就像一盒巧克力，对吧？你永远不知道下一刻会发生什么。这是真的。这就是为什么说出这些事情很重要。
It is. It is. And you know, I have I have I'll tell you something you don't know. I have your Christmas slash New Year's card from like two years ago. So obviously out of date, it's like you and Daria and the kids. Yeah. And it's up in my kitchen. Amazing. And I kept it there because I just I love seeing you guys every day. And I think about you guys all the time. And just have such love for your family. And I'm so grateful for our friendship. So I love you too, man. It's important to say things are so uncertain.
重要的是说这些事情是如此不确定。这是真的。这是真的。而且你知道，我有一件事要告诉你，你不知道。我有你们两年前的圣诞节/新年贺卡。所以显然已经过时了，上面有你和达丽娅还有孩子们的照片。是的。它就挂在我的厨房里。很神奇。我一直把它放在那里，因为我喜欢每天看到你们的照片。我一直在想念你们，对你们的家庭充满爱。我对我们的友谊感到非常感激。所以我也爱你，伙计。很重要的是，现在的事情如此不确定。
And I've never experienced I've had friends pass from cancer before. But I've never been with them through. I've never been there every step of the way from diagnosis to last conversation a few days before they passed. That was new for me. Yeah. And it affected really deeply affecting me on a bunch of levels.
我之前从未经历过朋友因癌症去世的事情。但是我从来没有一直陪在他们身边。我从未经历过从诊断到他们离世前几天的最后对话的整个过程。对我来说，那是一种新的经历。嗯，这对我产生了深刻的影响，影响了我很多方面。
And I want to be deeply affected by that. And I want I don't want to push that aside. In part, because Roland was so joyful and curious and optimistic until the end in a very genuine way. I wasn't an act. It wasn't theater. That raised a bunch of aspirations in me. Because he was first and foremost a very dedicated meditator. Psychoelects were a piece of the puzzle. But first and foremost, he was a dedicated meditator for decades. That's amazing.
我希望对此深感触动，我不想将它推到一边。部分原因是因为罗兰一直以非常真实的方式充满喜悦、好奇和乐观，直到最后一刻。这不是表演，不是戏剧。这在我心中激发了许多渴望。因为他首先是一个非常专注的冥想者。心理学元素只是这个谜题的一部分。但首先，他是一个致力于冥想数十年的人。这真是令人惊叹。
And attributed a lot of his equanimity and preparation for death, which I got to see firsthand. A lot of people talk about it. But let's be honest or I'll be honest. I've read all the Stoics or a lot of the Stoics and I've read all sorts of Buddhism and rehearsed death and momentum. Or in this other thing. But when I'm actually on as Roland said the final glide path, I don't know how I'm going to respond. I don't know. I have no idea.
他归功于自己的坦然和对死亡的准备，我亲眼见证了这一点。很多人都在谈论这个。但是说实话，或者我说实话，我读过所有的斯多葛派或者许多斯多葛派的著作，也读过各种佛教相关的内容，并模拟过死亡和动力。或者在另一个方面也做过这样的尝试。但是当我真正处于罗兰所说的那个最后的下滑路径时，我不知道我会如何反应。我不知道。我完全没有头绪。
So to see someone who really walked the walk in such a life affirming way that lit everyone up around him was tremendous. And he said what he was able to and he was willing to say what he meant to those people around him who meant things to him.
所以看到有人如此积极向上地践行自己所说的话，能够照亮身边的每个人，这简直让人难以置信。他说出了他能够说的话，也愿意向那些对他来说很重要的人表达出自己的真实想法。
And you don't have to wait until you have terminal cancer diagnosis. You shouldn't wait. Just because it may not be that. It may be a car crash. It may be something where you don't get the chance to say these things. And so I just, yeah, it's important to do it now. Yeah, you got to do it.
而且你不需要等到被诊断为晚期癌症才去做这些。你不应该等待。因为可能并非如此。可能是一场车祸。可能是一种情况，你没有机会说出这些话。所以我认为，现在就去做是很重要的。是的，你必须要去做。
Great to see you, man. Yeah, good to see you. Happy New Year.
很高兴见到你，伙计。是的，很高兴见到你。新年快乐！
I'm excited for this is going to be a Oh, don't you type talk a little bit about that. Cheers. To the new year. And all the listeners out there, you know, wishing you a happy and healthy new year. And yeah, I'm excited to continue this new.
我对这个感到兴奋，这将会是一个...噢，你能稍微谈一下吗？干杯！迎接新的一年。对所有的听众们来说，我希望你们有一个快乐和健康的新年。是的，我对继续这个新的感到兴奋。
I mean, it's always a new year of change, a new year of change and exploration. I think the one thing that you and I, let's take a sip. The one thing that you and I have in common is just this like lifelong pursuit of evolution.
我的意思是，每年都是变化的新一年，是探索和变革的新一年。我认为你和我唯一共同的一点就是一生追求进步。来，我们一起来品尝一口。
Yeah, of like figuring out because they're the secret that no one will tell you is no matter how much money you make, how much success you have, we're all still figuring out. And in Ram Dass' words, we're all just walking each other home.
是的，就像弄清楚一样，因为它们是没有人告诉你的秘密，无论你赚多少钱，取得多大成功，我们始终在摸索前行。用拉姆达斯的话来说，我们都只是互相陪伴着走回家。
Well said, man, I'm going to leave it there. There we go. Cheers, buddy.
好说，伙计。我就说到这儿。就这样吧。谢了，伙计。
Happy New Year. Happy early new year and happy new year to everybody listening.
新年快乐。提前祝大家新年快乐，希望所有聆听的人也能度过一个愉快的新年。
And as always, be just a little kinder than is necessary until the next episode. That applies to other people, but also applies to yourself.
一如既往，在下一集之前，要比必要还要善良一点点。这不仅适用于他人，也适用于你自己。
Take it easy. Take it easy. You know, life is sure but life is long. And we're all just figuring it out.
放松点。放松点。你知道，生命是确实存在的，但生命是漫长的。我们都只是在摸索着。
And by the way, as far as I can tell, you never really figure it out. So true.
顺便说一下，就我所知，你从未真正弄清楚。是真的。
CTFO, chill the fuck out a little bit. Be a little easier on yourself.
放松点，别那么过分激动。对自己宽容些。
And we'll put everything in the show notes, Tim Dogg, podcast, all the stuff we talked about.
我们将把我们在节目中所讨论的所有内容都放在节目简介里，包括Tim Dogg,播客以及其他所有的东西。
Tim Rose, that comes with a better website. Tim Dogg, KevinRose.com. Be sure to check out this amazing podcast.
Tim Rose，他拥有一个更好的网站。Tim Dogg，KevinRose.com。一定要去看看这个令人惊叹的播客。
I've heard of it. I think Kevin Rose, like, comes the case ago. I think I forget Tim Dogg.
我听说过这个。我想凯文·罗斯在一段时间前参与了这个案件。我想我忘了蒂姆·多格。
And Kefkef, Kefkef Talkg, coming at you soon. Thanks for listening, everybody.
同时， Kekef 和 Kekef Talkg 即将与大家见面。感谢大家的聆听。
See you.
再见。这句话是用于告别的常见用语，意思是希望再次见到对方。