CLASSIC: Biomedical Big Brother
发布时间 2023-03-30 15:00:00 来源
It feels like making smart money decisions has only become more difficult in the current economic environment, right? It's hard to know how to respond in an era of inflation or federal rate hikes and just the stock market volatility that we're all experiencing. And that's why our show, How To Money, exists. We want to help you to make confident and informed decisions in these uncertain times.
你看，现在经济环境变得更加艰难，我们好像越来越难做出明智的理财决策了对吧？要面对通货膨胀和联邦利率上调，还有我们都经历过的股票市场波动，实在很难知道该如何应对。所以，我们的节目《理财秘笈》就是为此而生。我们希望能够帮助你在这个不确定的时代做出自信和明智的决策。
We're two best buds covering practical topics like buying vs renting, saving money at the grocery store, maximizing your income potential, and ways to battle money and anxiety. So if you're looking for help in navigating the world of financial uncertainty, check out our show. You can listen to How To Money on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
我们是两个最好的朋友，讨论实用的话题，如买房还是租房、在杂货店省钱、最大化你的收入潜力以及应对金钱和焦虑的方法。因此，如果你正在寻求在金融不确定性的世界中获得帮助，请关注我们的节目。你可以在 I Heart Radio 应用程序、苹果播客或任何你获得播客的地方收听《如何赚钱》。
Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
你们好，我是David Eagleman。我制作了一档新的播客节目，名为 Inner Cosmos，在 I Heart 平台上播出。我将探索我们大脑和经历之间的关系，提出一些不寻常的问题，例如我们能否为人类创造新的感官呢？欢迎你每周加入我的节目，一起发现你的大脑如何掌控你的行为、感知和现实。你可以在 I Heart Radio 应用程序、苹果播客或其他任何你获得播客的地方收听 David Eagleman 的 Inner Cosmos。
The Man of All Caves. I say the Lord works in the Stereo's ways. A brand new immersive fiction podcast. I know. EA got nothing on the devil. Starring Westworld's Jonathan Tucker and Eddie Githeggi from Twilight. I admit it, I remain a Man of All County to think of the fog gets. To know, to uncover what happened when three boys entered a Tennessee cave, but only one returned. This is the exact spot where we found the bodies, Julian. The Man of All Caves. MA and T-A-W-A-U-K. Listen to the Man of All Caves now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
我说，上帝以立體聲的方式工作。这是一个全新的沉浸式小说播客。我知道，EA的东西和魔鬼相比毫不足道。由《西部世界》的乔纳森·塔克和《暮光之城》的埃迪·吉丁吉出演。我承认，我仍然是一个全县的人，会想到雾会出现在哪里。想要了解当三个男孩进入田纳西州的洞穴时发生了什么，但只有一个返回。这正是我们发现尸体的地方，朱利安。洞穴之王。MA和T-A-W-A-U-K。现在在I Heart Radio应用程序、Apple Podcasts或你选择的任何播客平台上收听洞穴之王。
All right, fellow conspiracy realists, we're bringing this classic to your attention because unfortunately, it got a little bit prescient, a little bit predictive. Do you guys see the news about Amazon doubling down into the world of medicine? No. Yeah, Jeff's into it. Jeff wants to know. He wants to know. Like, he wants to know what pills I'm taking. What's it do? Everything. He wants to know when you poop. No. He's there. Hand out, waiting to collect the sample. Yeah, Amazon Clinic has opened up Amazon recently bought a huge medical company, one medical. And in this flashback, we're talking about biomedical big brother, I think we called it, which is all about medical monitoring, right?
好的，同是阴谋迷们，我们今天要提醒你们的是这个经典案例，因为不幸的是，它变得有点先见之明、有点预测性了。你们看到亚马逊加倍投入医疗世界的新闻了吗？没有？是的，杰夫对此很感兴趣。他想知道。就像他想知道我在吃什么药一样。这项业务什么都做吗？什么都做。他甚至想知道你什么时候排便。不要啊，他已经在那里等着收集样本了。是的，亚马逊诊所最近收购了一家名为One Medical的大型医疗公司。而我们现在要谈的是“生物医学老大哥”，这涉及到医疗监测，对吧？
And this came out in 2018. And there's been a lot of progress. A lot of people own fit bits. A lot of people own medical monitoring devices. And the question is, is this a life saving breakthrough or is this another avenue to off control? Or is it six in one hand, half a dozen pills in the other? Oh, it's all of that stuff.
这是在2018年发布的。现在已经有了很多进展。很多人拥有Fitbit，很多人拥有医疗监测设备。问题是，这是一项拯救生命的突破，还是另一个控制人们的途径？还是这两者都有？噢，这都有可能。
Guys, look, we don't want to make this intro too long. I just need you to know, we were recently at an airport, all three of us. And I made a huge mistake. I went into one of those stores where you tap your credit card, you walk in, you take whatever you want, you walk out and your credit card gets charged. And it just knows what I took. Getting to know you. Dude, I had it even a weirder one than that. I was at downtown Disney or whatever it's called now in Orlando. And I went to a uni-clow, just like a Japanese clothing brand or whatever. And you take your stuff, put it in a bucket on the cash register, check out thing, and it knows what's in there. I don't know if it's like RFID chips or what.
听着，我们不想让这个开场过长。我只需要让你们知道，我们最近在机场，我们三个人一起去了。然后我犯了一个大错。我走进了那种店铺，你刷一下你的信用卡，然后你就可以走进去，拿走你想要的，走出来，你的信用卡就会被收费，而且它还知道我拿了什么。了解你们。兄弟，我经历过更奇怪的事情。我在奥兰多的迪士尼区或者现在叫什么名字的地方，去了一家叫做UNIQLO的日本服装品牌店。你把东西放在收银台上的桶里，结账的时候，它就知道里面有什么。我不知道是不是因为射频识别芯片或者其他的原因。
But it's. This episode, this episode, alright. From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
这一集，这一集，好的。从不明飞行物到超能力和政府阴谋，历史上充满了无法解释的事件。你现在可以掉头走，或者探索那些他们不想让你知道的事情。
Welcome back to the show, my name is Matt. And our compete group, Noel, is a way at the moment but never fear he will be returning very soon. In the meantime, they still call me Ben. We're here with our super producer Paul Deckant, you or you, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
欢迎回到节目，我叫马特。我们的竞争者诺尔目前不在，但不用担心他很快就会回来。在此期间，他们仍然叫我本。我们与我们的超级制作人保罗·德坎特在一起，你或你，这就是那些他们不想让你知道的东西。
Another person who works here is named Christopher Haseyotis. He's on the research team at Stuff Media, I guess, How Stuff Works Stuff Media. And he sent us something that we. He sent it to us yesterday, you think, or maybe the day before. And Ben and Nolan and I all just went, oh, this is an episode that we are producing right now. And we can't wait to get you into it, but we're not going to spoil it.
这里还有个叫Christopher Haseyotis的人在这里工作。我猜他在Stuff Media的研究团队工作。昨天或前天，他发了些东西给我们。然后我和Ben、Nolan一起看了，我们都很兴奋，因为这正是我们正在制作的一集节目。但是我们不能透露太多，等播出时你就可以看到啦。
The first thing we're going to do is just talk about health. Yes, health, medicine. What does it mean? Yes, panesias do they exist, what is the cure for what all ails you.
我们要做的第一件事就是谈谈健康。是的，健康、医药。这意味着什么？是的，想要知道疼痛是否存在，想知道治疗所有疾病的方法。
I do want to say if you would like to hear some of Christopher's other works, he is consistently recommending some great stories for us to share on social media under our various conspiracy stuff. Monikers, you can also hear Christopher semi-live and definitely in person behind a hot mic by tuning into an excellent show that Lauren Vogelbaum produced called How Stuff Works Now. And it's sort of a cavalcade, a very interesting story. So do check that out in the meantime, as Matt said, health.
我想说，如果你想听一些克里斯托弗的其他作品，他一直在向我们推荐一些很棒的故事，可以在我们各种阴谋论主题的社交媒体上分享。此外，你也可以通过收听劳伦·沃格尔鲍姆制作的一档名为《科学简史》的优秀节目，半个直播地听到克里斯托弗讲述有趣的故事。所以，在此期间一定要去看看，同时像马特说的那样，注意健康。
Yes. And I got to tell you, I got to tell you, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. When we think about health in this day and age, you know, it's no secret. That there are horrible horrific things going on in the world. Yes. Zimbabwe, as we record this, is currently on the tea reading closer to the brink of destabilization. The earthquake in Iran, Iraq border there, just killed 500-something thousand or 500 people. Puerto Rico also devastated by a hurricane. Killings in the United States, the Pacific region, the Pacific theater, is an inching closer and closer to a nuclear exchange.
是的。我必须告诉你，我必须告诉你，马特，马特，马特，嗯嗯，嗯嗯，嗯嗯。当我们考虑今天的健康问题时，你知道，这不是秘密。世界上发生了可怕的恐怖事件。是的。津巴布韦在我们录制这段视频时正处于接近动荡的边缘。伊朗伊拉克边境的地震刚刚导致了500多人死亡。波多黎各也被飓风摧毁。美国、太平洋地区的谋杀案件越来越多，太平洋地区也越来越接近核交换。
But despite all of these horrible things, oh, and someone keeps making transformer movies, Paul looking at you. No, no, no, actually, I watched transformer movies too. But despite these horrific things, which are not jokes and the terrible jokes we make about terrible things, you have to sit back and admit, overall, we as a species have it pretty good right now, especially in a medical sense.
虽然发生了这么多可怕的事情，哦，还有人不停地拍变形金刚电影，看着你，保罗。不，不，不，实际上，我也看过变形金刚电影。但是尽管发生了这些可怕的事情，这不是玩笑，也不是我们开这些恶心玩笑，你得坐下来承认，总的来说，我们作为一个物种，目前还是挺不错的，特别是在医疗方面。
I mean, absolutely. Can you imagine getting sick 500 years ago, even 100 years ago, getting sick to the point of needing, let's say, a surgeon? Oh, boy. Yeah, yeah, and depending on how far back in the timeline we go, needing a surgeon becomes increasingly disturbing. It's the worst. You know, it's like the old story about barber poles and how they came about. You remember that, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
我的意思是，绝对是这样。你能想象500年前，甚至100年前生病到需要看外科医生的地步吗？哦，天啊。而且，根据我们回溯的时间，所需要的外科医生也是越来越令人不安的。真是太可怕了。你知道，就像关于理发店旗杆是怎么来的那个故事一样。你还记得吗？噢，对啊，对啊。
So way back in the day in Western Europe, there was this concept that barbers were also inherently qualified to be surgeons, the argument being that, well, if they can figure out how to cut your hair, they should be capable of cutting anything else. Yeah. A lot of people died. A lot of good people died. Probably some bad ones too. Yeah, street razors could be used for a lot of things.
很久以前在西欧，有这样一个概念，认为理发师天生也有资格成为外科医生，理由是，如果他们能想出如何剪你的头发，那么他们也应该能够剪任何其他东西。是的，很多人死了。许多好人死了。可能还有一些坏家伙。是的，街头剃刀可以被用于很多事情。
Absolutely. And if we were to attempt to describe all the medical advancements made from just 1917 to 2017, we would have to start an entirely different show. And Paul, Matt, and I would have to go somewhere and brainstorm a title that was better than all the medical advancements made from 1917 to 2017. The podcast. I don't know. I'm kind of digging that. You know, I think it's a cool idea, but that name is way too long. I think that's what makes it special. There you go.
当然。如果我们试图描述从1917年到2017年所取得的所有医学进展，我们将不得不开展一个全新的展览。 Paul、Matt和我会不得不去某个地方头脑风暴，想出一个比1917年到2017年所有医学进展更好的标题。听书。我不知道。我有点喜欢这个想法，但是这个名字太长了。我觉得这就是它与众不同的地方。就是这样。
It is a nomenclature aside. It is an important perspective to consider when we think about this. We can look at it another way too. We can look at it in a different direction and ask ourselves, what will people living in 21, 17 think of the medical technology and techniques used today in our time here in good old 2017? Whoa. What? Essentially, we'll be the future of medicine.
这个词汇分类很重要。在我们思考这个问题时，它是一个重要的角度。我们也可以换一个角度来看待它。我们可以从不同的方向来看待它，并问自己，21世纪、17世纪的人们会如何看待我们在这个美好的2017年所使用的医疗技术和技巧？哇哦。什么？实际上，我们将是医学的未来。
Well, I mean, I have some ideas, but you know, you know me, it gets a little dark. But that's okay. I'm always thinking about integrating man and machine and how that's going to become the new normal. But just to get this out of the way at front, we know that this can be a touchy subject anytime you're talking about health. Because you're also inherently talking about mortality.
嗯，我是指，我有些想法，但你知道，你知道我，它有点暗淡。但没关系。我一直在思考如何将人和机器融合，以及这将成为新的正常状态。但是，让我们先澄清一下，在谈到健康时，我们知道这可能是一个敏感话题。因为你也在本质上谈论死亡。
Absolutely. And you know, that is the one thing we all have in common. But we want to be clear, we're not doctors. Ben and I have no physician background, anything like that. We don't have degrees in any of that. So we're not dispensing any kind of medical advice to you. We're not trying to tell you how to think about this stuff. We're just going to tell it how it is pretty much.
当然。你知道，这是我们所有人共同的一件事。但我们想要明确一点，我们不是医生。本和我没有医学背景之类的东西。我们没有任何相关的学位。所以我们不会给你提供任何医疗建议。我们也不会试图告诉你如何看待这些事情。我们只会基本地告诉你实情。
Well, for the record, I do know first aid. So. Oh, hey, me too, CPR and everything. Yeah, so if you meet us and I assume Paul does as well. No, okay. All right. Okay. Don't go to Paul if you're choking. No, it's cool because we hang out outside of work. And so if you happen to see us in person, we can reset your disjointed or dislocated arm or make a splint for you or something. But yeah, we are not giving anyone medical advice. Yeah. And if you have a compound fracture, don't call me.
好的，说实话，我确实知道急救。噢，嘿，我也是，包括心肺复苏。是的，如果你见到我们，我认为保罗也知道急救。不，好的，好的。别找保罗帮你排除呼吸道异物。不，没关系，因为我们在工作之外也会见面。如果你碰巧在现实生活中遇到我们，我们可以重新安装受伤的关节，为你制作夹板之类的东西。但是是的，我们不会给任何人提供医疗建议。是的。如果你有复合性骨折，不要找我。
Okay. You know, go to bed with compound fractures. Yeah. All right. So we've established that here are the facts. Here's the weirdest thing over the span of human civilization. We have been making scientific advancements that later become medical advancements or medical breakthroughs, right? Yeah, every time we make a mistake in some field, in some way, we learn from it and we don't do it again. Well, in theory.
好的。你知道，带着复合骨折上床睡觉。是的。好的。所以我们确定了这些事实。在人类文明的历史上，最奇怪的事情就是我们一直在进行科学进步，后来变成医学进展或医学突破，对吗？是的，每当我们在某个领域犯了错误，以某种方式，我们都会从中学到东西，并且不再犯同样的错误。理论上是这样的。
The weird thing is that these discoveries do not exist in a vacuum. There's a bit of a positive feedback loop that took a long time to get running. There's a bit of a snowball effect that started rolling very slowly at first. But now it is no secret that the pace of medical advancement itself, just what some of our bosses like to call the cadence of this advancement.
奇怪的是，这些发现不是孤立存在的。有一个长时间运行的正反馈循环。一开始滚动得非常缓慢，有点像雪球效应。但现在医学进步的步伐本身已经不是秘密了，我们的一些上司称之为进步的节奏。
It's accelerating. It's increasing. In an article for Forbes, Scott Godleib notes, and we've got a quote here, the pace at which fundamental discoveries of basic science are being uncovered is accelerating as is the speed at which medical practice is being transformed by these inventions. Metamorphic changes, Gottleib says, are sweeping a wider breadth of clinical areas more regularly than at any time in the history of science.
它在加速。它在增长。在一篇《福布斯》文章中，斯科特·戈德莱布指出，并引用了一句话，基础科学的基本发现被揭示的速度正在加速，这些发明正在改变医学实践的速度也在加快。戈特莱布说，变态的变化正在以科学史上任何时候更定期地扫过更广泛的临床领域。
Wow. That's inspiring. It is in a very real, literal way. Time is accelerating in the medical field. Wow. I mean, saying that does have sort of a buzz feedie headline to it, but it is true.
哇。这真是令人振奋，以非常真实且字面意义来说。在医学领域，时间正在加速。哇。我的意思是，说这话可能有点像“流行媒体”标题，但这是真实的。
In the past, you know, the first question is, well, what gives? What made us such plotting Peters? Yeah. Well, our stumbling Stevens earlier. Yeah. I'm just making up names. The plotting stumbling, Peter Stevens had a lot to do with communication and how much it cost both in real time and in materials to send messages to someone, especially if you're sending it further away than inside your town or for something. Right.
过去，你知道，第一个问题是，那么，是什么导致我们成为阴谋家？对的。我们之前的笨拙斯蒂文斯。是的，我只是编造名字。阴谋家的斯蒂文斯与沟通有很大关系，特别是发送消息到离你不在城镇内或者为了某些事情需要的实时和物质成本。好的。
Yeah. We've mentioned this in past episodes. Long time listeners are probably familiar with this concept and Matt's spot on. Well, we say cost of communication, we don't necessarily mean how much did it, how much of whatever the currency at the time was did it take for you to send a message or it's not just that it's not about your Xfinity account costs. Right. Right. It is, as Matt said, time and materials and time is the primary factor here.
嗯。我们在过去的几集中提到过这个。长期听众可能对这个概念很熟悉，Matt的观点非常准确。当我们说通信成本时，我们并不一定是指发送消息需要花费多少钱，也不是指你的Xfinity账户费用。对的。正如Matt所说，这与时间和材料有关，时间是主要因素。
So not only could people not learn about a treatment on the internet, which is its whole other, whole other saccacats, but for much of human civilization, books themselves were also incredibly rare and literacy rates were tremendously low. Yeah. So even if you could communicate like easily and effectively, maybe the person you're writing to can't understand you or maybe you can't understand.
所以，不仅人们无法从互联网上了解到治疗方法，这是完全不同的另一回事，而且在人类文明的很大一部分历史中，书籍本身也非常稀缺，识字率非常低。是啊，即使你可以轻松有效地交流，也可能你写信的那个人无法理解你，或者你自己无法理解。
And most people lived and died within a relatively small number of miles from where they were born. So let's imagine that you're a patient back in these days and you were trying to get information about what's wrong with me. My leg really hurts and there's some kind of hole in there, but I can't figure out what's going on. I don't know what it is. How do I find out?
大部分人在出生的地方只生活且死亡了相对较短的距离。那么现在想象一下，假如你是那个时代的病人，而你正试图搞明白自己到底生了什么病。我的腿非常疼痛，上面有某种洞，但我无法确定具体情况。我不知道这是什么病。那么我怎样才能查明它的原因呢？
Well, that whole thing where you can't communicate very well doesn't only apply to you, the patient. It applies to the physician that you would want to go and see. So here's the other thing. These physicians, they're across the world and their medical advancements happening in different pockets in different parts of civilization. And when you can't communicate between let's say Britain and Italy, they're not going to know the advancements that are occurring on the other side. They can't compare notes.
好吧，你跟医生之间无法流畅沟通的情况并不只是你一个人遇到的问题。对你想去看望的那位医生也同样适用。还有一件事情需要注意。这些医生分布在世界各地，他们在不同的文明地区间进行着医学研究，当你在英国和意大利之间无法沟通时，他们就无法了解彼此的研究进展和成果。他们也无法进行交流和比较研究成果的笔记。
Exactly. So it's having to develop almost in isolation until you have someone who takes a ship, let's say, across from Italy to Britain and spend some time in London or something.
所以，它几乎是在孤立中发展的，直到有人从意大利乘船到英国，在伦敦之类的地方停留了一段时间。
Right. Or some sort of MS area is exploring for a different, for a different reason. Then they also happen to know something very obvious to them that is unknown to the people of the time. For instance, the idea that consuming citrus fruits were impossible along maritime voyage will combat scurvy.
对。或者某种微软区域正在探索不同的事情，出于不同的原因。然后，他们还碰巧知道一些对他们来说非常明显，但古人不知道的事情。例如，吃柑橘类水果在航海中是不可能的，这会导致坏血病。
Right? Yeah. And I'm sure there were a lot of people at the time who didn't know that many because they would never write about. Exactly. But you know, that's neither here nor there. The important part is just as you said, Matt, which is that these things are developing in isolation and the pace of communication did exist, but it was glacial compared to what we have today.
“对吧？” “是啊。我确定当时很多人并不知道很多事，因为他们从未写过。” “确实如此。但你知道，这不是关键。重要的部分就像你说的一样，马特，这些事情正在孤立中发展，沟通的速度存在，但与今天相比如蜗牛一般缓慢。”
Physicians might also, must be said, be bound by spiritual or religious explanations for the environment, you did not get the plague because of a bite from a flea that was carried by a rat. You got the plague because you ate meat on Friday and are there for ungodly because you could have bought an indulgence or a dispensation, but you didn't. So for the sin of not participating in extortion, you have the plague.
医生们也可能被精神或宗教解释所束缚，比如你不是因为被老鼠携带的跳蚤咬了而得了瘟疫。你得了瘟疫是因为你在星期五吃了肉，因为你本可以买赎罪卷或特赦令，但你没有这么做，所以你因为不参与勒索而犯了罪，所以得了瘟疫。
But we put in a disclaimer here. We're not telling you what to believe, but you know, think with your head. All right. Boy, well, this is that's not a ding on that's not a ding on the concept of spiritual or religious explanations for an ailment, which you know, in some cases exist today. It's historical.
我们在这里声明一下。我们不是告诉你该相信什么，但你知道，要用你的头脑思考。好的。嗨，这并不是对精神或宗教解释某种疾病的概念的贬低，因为在某些情况下今天这种解释仍然存在。这是历史性的。
People are as a species. We are explainers. We are classifiers. We seek to understand the inexplicable and the incomprehensible. And so we have to find a cause. We have to have an if then. The other thing that would happen is physicians might, aside from any ideological beliefs, an ideological is probably a better word than spiritual or religious at this time.
人类作为一个物种，我们是解释者。我们是分类者。我们寻求理解那些难以解释和不可理解的事物。因此，我们必须找到原因。我们必须有一个如果那么的条件。另外一件事是，医生可能会，除了任何意识形态信仰外，意识形态可能是一个比精神或宗教更好的词语。
Aside from that, in a more secular way, they may cling to traditional beliefs despite indications that other treatments might be more effective, not to mention less dangerous.
除此之外，在更世俗的角度上，他们可能会坚持传统信仰，尽管有迹象表明其他治疗方法可能更有效，更不用说更安全了。
Like for a long time, there was a concept that just by overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the consumption of mercury could possibly allow people to live way longer span of time. As we know, and as fairly apparent, right, to many observers, even in the time when this belief was prevalent, especially after trying it for a little while, especially after trying it, as we know now that consumption mercury has the opposite effect to an extreme degree.
很长一段时间以来，有一个概念认为，即使有大量相反的证据，摄入汞也可能让人们活得更长。我们知道，对于许多观察者来说，尤其是在这种信仰盛行的时候，尝试了一段时间后，很明显摄入汞会极度产生反效果。现在我们知道，摄入汞会产生相反的效应。
Oh, side note mat. I feel like you already know this one. So stop me if you've heard it. Do you remember? Do you know why the madhatter is now in Wonderland? Do you know the story of madhatters?
哦，附带提醒，马特。我感觉你已经知道这个了。所以如果你听过了就阻止我。你记得吗？你知道为什么疯帽子现在在仙境里吗？你知道疯帽子的故事吗？
Like how we got there? No, no, no, just the phrase madhatter. I do not. So when these habitatshers would create or form hats, again, historically, they would use chemicals like mercury to assist in solidifying the shape. Stiffening it? Right. And what happened is that over time exposure to these chemicals started affecting the mental faculties of these hat makers, these hap p er dashers. And then the phrase madhatter originated from that. It's not just a funny joke.
像我们怎样到达那里？不，不，不，只是madhatter这个词语。我不会。所以当这些制帽商人会创造或制作帽子时，历史上，他们会使用类似汞这样的化学物质来帮助固定形状。使它变硬？没错。随着时间的推移，暴露于这些化学物质中的影响开始影响这些帽子制造商，这些hap p er dashers的智力能力。然后madhatter这个词语就从此而起了。这不仅是一个有趣的笑话。
Oh, March hair, by the way, of course, being like spring reproductive madness. But the interesting thing to me is that there was some point in time where somebody, probably in Europe, looked at someone else and they were like, hey, man. I'm worried about Steve. He's been acting real weird. And then like, yeah, but his hat game is so on point. Yeah. And that's how you end up with stuff like mustard. Don't let's be silly. That's perfect. That's a direct quote. That is a direct quote. Yeah, mustard. That's not a serious condiment. Can you imagine? We don't really believe that. Don't send us anything about mustard.
哦，三月的头发，顺便说一下，当然，就像春天的生殖疯狂一样。但有趣的是，在某个时间点，可能是在欧洲，有人看着另一个人说：“嘿，伙计。我担心史蒂夫。他的行为真的很奇怪。”然后像，是啊，但他的帽子真的很好看。是啊。这就是你最终得到芥末之类的东西的原因。不要傻了。那太完美了。那是直接引用。是的，芥末。那不是一种严肃的调味品。你能想象吗？我们并不真的相信那样。不要给我们送芥末。
So you see the problem here, folks. You see the dilemma, the, there are multiple completely understandable reasons why the pace of medical treatment and medical breakthroughs is slow at this point in time.
你们看到问题了吧，朋友们。你们看到了这个窘境，因为目前医疗治疗和医学突破的步伐缓慢，完全可以理解其中有多种原因。
And we can journey through history and explore this relationship between just the, what we would call the pure scientific discovery and the medical applications. Paul, could you get like some sort of time travel noise? Okay, there we go. Where are we? We're in the 16th century. Okay, all right. We're in the 16th century. That's why everything looks so assassin, pretty right now.
我们可以穿越历史，探索纯科学发现和医学应用之间的关系。保罗，你能弄个时光旅行的声音吗？好的，我们来了。我们在哪里？我们在16世纪。好的，好的。我们在16世纪，这就是为什么一切看起来都很华丽。
I can hear the horses. Mm-hmm. And you can smell the smells. Mm-hmm. Right. Potent. Yes. Potent indeed, my friend. We are actually at the exact, well, the approximate moment in time where the concept of germ theory was first proposed. Germ theory. This is, this is the idea that somehow disease, whenever your body gets sick, it's somehow linked to these tiny little things that we now know are microorganisms, right?
我能听到马的声音。恩恩。你也能闻到气味。恩恩。对，很浓烈。没错，我的朋友，确实很浓烈。我们实际上正处于时间中一个重要的时刻，那就是有了“病菌理论”的概念。病菌理论，就是我们现在知道的有关微生物和身体生病之间的联系的观点。
Invisible to the naked eye.
肉眼无法感知。
So over the next few centuries, now we're traveling through centuries, really quickly, over the next few centuries, there would be additional discoveries that lent further credence to this concept.
在接下来的几个世纪里，我们将迅速穿越几个世纪，会有更多的发现为这个概念增加更多的可信度。
However, it wasn't until the 19th century that doctors or the Western ones at least even began washing their hands. What? At all. What?
然而，直到19世纪，医生们，至少是西方的医生们，才开始洗手。真的吗？不会吧！
Check it out, man. In 1847, a Hungarian physician named Ignas Philip Semmelweis proposed that maternal death, death during childbirth, could be sharply cut when obstetricians washed their hands before conducting, you know, before the recording of the dead.
看看这个，医生啊。1847年，一个名叫伊格纳茨·菲利普·舍梅尔韦伊的匈牙利医生提出了一个想法，即在产科医生进行操作之前，也就是记录死亡之前，洗手可以大大减少产妇死亡率。
Yeah, I've seen it, dude. That's right, you have. Yeah, you can't unsee that. Specifically, they recommend a chlorinated lime solution. That miracle. You can't unsee that miracle. Oh, man. You all right? Yeah, okay. I just had a flashback, but we're good.
是的，兄弟，我看过了。没错，你也看到了。是啊，那个东西一看便难以忘怀。具体来说，他们建议使用氯化石灰溶液。那真是个奇迹啊，你难以忘怀。哦，天啊。你还好吧？没问题，我只是有了一些闪回，但我们没事。
But that's, it seems so simple. Right. Yeah, it does seem pretty simple. Here's what happened to Ignas.
但是，看起来很简单啊。对啊，确实很简单。以下是伊格纳斯发生的事情。
Well, nobody took this guy seriously. He was ridiculed for having this belief and for, in his mind, figuring out, oh, this might be the problem. His colleague's just, just ribbed him the whole time. He died in an asylum in 1865. Where he was put involuntarily. Yeah. Because he was crazy. Telling people to wash their hands all the time. How dare you tell me to wash my hands like some kind of peasant doing laundry? Get out of here Semmelweis. Go back to your room. But there was only two weeks after guards. It's just say, they beat him up. They beat him up to an inch of his life. Look, I think we should use an accurate description. Okay. And it's fine to beat me if you want. They beat the ever-living **** out of him.
嗯，没有人认真对待这个人。他因为相信这件事情而被嘲笑，在他的脑海里找到了问题所在。他的同事总是捉弄他。他于1865年在一家精神病院中去世。他被强制送进去。是啊，因为他疯了。总是告诉人们要经常洗手。你怎么敢让我像洗衣服的农民一样洗手？走开，Semmelweis。回去你的房间。但是，只有两周之后警卫打了他一顿。看，我认为我们应该使用一个准确的描述。好的。如果你想打我那也没关系。他们把他打得不成人形。
In 1865, he died two weeks after this vicious beating. Only later, much later did history acknowledge his pressings. Yeah, his understanding. And, man, this guy could have saved a whole, well, he did save a whole bunch of people in a way, but ultimately he was just persecuted for it.
1865年，他在遭受残酷毒打后两周离世。只是很久以后，历史才认识到他的见解，他的理解力。这个人本来可以以一种方式拯救很多人，但最终只是因此而遭受迫害。
And Louis Pisture around somewhere at the same time confirmed the germ theory in the 1860s. And a few years after that, Joseph Lister began introducing sterile techniques into surgery. Ah, you don't have to just wash your hands. You wash your implements too. You mean like a peasant doing laundry?
路易斯·皮斯图尔和杰拉德·乌德因在19世纪60年代确认了细菌学说，而在此后的几年中，约瑟夫·李斯特开始将无菌技术引入外科手术。啊，你不仅需要洗手，还要洗消毒器械。你的意思是像一个农民洗衣服一样吗？
I'm just imagining why would you get so angry about this idea? Because we have the privilege of retrospecting now. And it is an immense and powerful privilege because the average person living in the US washes their hands multiple times a day.
我只是在想，你为什么会对这个想法生气呢？因为我们现在拥有回顾的特权。这是一项巨大而强大的特权，因为居住在美国的普通人每天洗手多次。
Right. Thanks to Pastor. And I wonder if it's just at the time it was the implication that this physician is dirty in some way or this physician's tools are unclean.
好的，感谢牧师。我想知道这是否意味着这位医生在某种程度上不干净，或者他的工具不卫生。
Right. So it wasn't until much, much later that these original findings began to significantly impact medical practice in the experimental methods, the lab tools, the scientific insights were finally at hand not only to explain how germs caused disease, but to explain how this process could be mitigated or somewhat controlled to help patients. And all in all, this took about 300 years from the 16th century to the 19th century.
嗯，所以直到后来很久很久，这些原始发现才开始显著地影响医学实践，在实验方法、实验室工具和科学洞见方面终于有了手头和解释细菌如何引起疾病以及如何缓解或在一定程度上控制这一过程来帮助患者的方法。总的来说，这大约花费了从16世纪到19世纪的300年时间。
And this is just one discovery. And each single one leads to other discoveries. And so as long as there aren't any kind of giant asteroids that impact your earth, there are some other catastrophe and we'll just cross our fingers that nothing's going to happen in the next few hours here.
这只是一个发现，每个新发现又会导致其他发现。只要没有巨型小行星撞击地球，就不会有任何灾难发生，现在我们只能祈祷未来几个小时里不会发生任何事情。
It makes sense for our species to discover and apply all these new technologies at an increasingly rapid pace, especially you've taken to that communication thing now. Now that I can get on this laptop here and shoot an email off to anybody anywhere in the entire planet that has access to the internet, I mean, we can do this.
对于我们人类来说，发现和应用所有这些新技术的速度越来越快是有意义的，尤其是现在你已经掌握了通讯技能。现在我可以在这台笔记本电脑上给任何一个有互联网接入的全球任何地方的人发电子邮件，这是真的，我们可以做到。
Right. So yes, okay, it's true. It took 300 years for the world to agree that doctors should wash their hands, but by way of contrast, it only took 30 years for modern scientific work on immune cells to translate into the development of some of the world's most powerful, most efficacious drugs, however.
好的，没错，这是真的。世界花了300年时间才一致认同医生应该洗手，但是相比之下，现代免疫细胞的科学研究仅仅用了30年就转化为世界上一些最强大、最有效的药物的研制。
This is not all warm fuzzies, hugs from grandma, fresh cookies, unicorns and rainbows. Yeah, that's not even Rick Shaw's stiff drinks and lava lamps. No, sir, you see along with the increase in effectiveness, we are also as a species seen unequal access to medicine, rising costs, especially in the field of proprietary biotech or drugs, and we're seeing increasingly disturbing possibilities for the future of patient privacy.
这不仅仅是温馨的感觉、奶奶的拥抱、新鲜的饼干、独角兽和彩虹。是的，这甚至不是瑞克·肖夫人的浓厚饮料和熔岩灯。先生，除了效果增加，我们作为一个物种还看到了医疗资源不平等、药品成本上涨（尤其是专利生物技术或药品领域），以及病人隐私未来可能面临的越来越令人担忧的可能性。
And we're not even getting into healthcare costs in the United States, which is a whole other thing will inevitably be called to make an update for that one.
我们甚至还没有谈到美国的医疗保健成本，这是另一个问题，我们不可避免地需要为此进行更新。
Pretty soon too with what's going on, but these concerns that men's talking about about privacy, they are particularly strange. Yes, long time listeners, fellow conspiracy realists, you've heard us explore the erosion of privacy of multiple fields from the world's governments, to its grocery stores, and even unto the phone, you may be using to listen to this podcast right now.
很快也就会发生，不过男人们谈论隐私的这些担忧实在是特别奇怪。作为长期听众和同伴阴谋论者，你们听过我们探讨多个领域隐私权的侵蚀，从世界政府到杂货店，甚至到你现在可能使用的手机上。
But it goes deeper than that. The future of medicine you see is upon us, digital medicine. Welcome to the rabbit hole. Don't worry. We'll monitor your vitals. While this handy message from our sponsor invades your head holes.
但它比那更深刻。你看到的医学未来就在我们身边，数字医学。欢迎来到兔子洞。别担心，我们会监测您的生命体征，当我们的赞助者发送这条方便的信息到你的脑海中。
Here's where it gets crazy. In a recent article for the New York Times dated November 13th, actually, of this year right before we recorded this podcast, a journalist named Pam Billak. Billak, let's say, explores the US Food and Drug Administration, the FDA's decision to approve a quote, digital pill. Oh boy. A medicine containing a sensor that can tell doctors when and if a patient is taking their medicine.
在最近一篇发表于今年我们录制这个播客之前的11月13日的《纽约时报》文章中，一位名叫帕姆·比拉克的记者探讨了美国食品药品监督管理局（FDA）批准一种“数字药丸”的决定。这实在太疯狂了。这种药物含有一种传感器，可以告诉医生病人何时、是否服药。
You may be asking, what sort of pill are we talking? This choice was very interesting to us because the pill in question is a variant of a name-brand anti-psychotic, Abilify. Yes. And this product is approved for the treatment of schizophrenia, acute treatment of manic and mixed episodes associated with bipolar, one disorder, and for use as an add-on treatment for depression and adults.
你可能会问，我们正在谈论什么样的药片呢？我们对这个选择非常感兴趣，因为我们谈的药片是一种品牌名为“安立复”的抗精神病药的变体。是的，这个产品已经被批准用于治疗精神分裂症，急性躁狂和混合发作与一型双相障碍，并作为成人抑郁症的附加治疗。
The FDA granted the approval of Abilify MySight to a Tsukha Pharmaceutical Company Limited. In the sensor technology in the patch are made by this company called Proteus Digital Health. What's that you say? A smart pill.
美国食品药品监督管理局(FDA)已批准由古河制药有限公司生产的Abilify MySight。这个贴片传感技术是由Proteus Digital Health公司制造的。你是说什么？是一个智能药丸。
Well, how does it work? Well, let me tell you, the patient takes a pill, you see. That makes sense. Then the pill sensor tracks that it's been ingested. Okay. Then that pill sends a signal to a patch worn by the patient. Then the patch sends a signal to a mobile application that allows patients to track their medication use.
那它是怎么工作的呢？嗯，让我告诉你，病人需要吃一粒药片。这很好理解。然后，药片感应器会检测是否已经被吞下。好的。接着，这个药片会发送信号给贴在病人身上的一个贴片。这个贴片再发送信号给一个移动应用程序，让病人可以追踪他们的药物使用情况。
And here's where it gets really interesting. For people who are thinking, oh my god, my alarm's going off, I don't like this concept at all. I'm not even ever going to use this, but I hate this idea. Well, the patient has to give permission to the caregiver or to the physicians to access the information. And they do that through a web-based portal.
这里事情变得真的很有趣。对于那些觉得“我的闹钟响了，我一点也不喜欢这个概念，我永远也不会用这个，但我恨这个想法”的人来说，需要知道病人必须同意让照顾者或医生获取信息，他们是通过一个基于网络的门户进行同意的。
But in theory, your privacy is not immediately being hacked just by taking the pill itself. For now. However, if you are a patient going through schizophrenia, manic and mixed episodes, bipolar disorder, serious depression, making those kind of decisions become a little harder. And it's a little more gray.
从理论上讲，仅仅是服用这种药物并不会立刻侵犯您的隐私。目前而言，是这样的。然而，如果您是经历了精神分裂症、躁郁症、双相情感障碍、严重抑郁症的患者，那么做这些决定会变得更加困难，也更加棘手。事情变得更加模糊了。
Yeah, agreed. And for proponents, this pill, this specific variant of Abilify, is just one more contribution to the growing wave of monitoring techniques and technologies used to address one of medicines, primary woes, which I was not fully aware of. I didn't understand this either.
是的，同意。对于支持者来说，这种药丸，这种特定的阿比利福变体，只是医学中应对主要问题日益增长的监测技术和技术浪潮上的又一项贡献，这是我之前并没有完全意识到的。我也不理解这一点。
Patients, you see, apparently have a real devil of a time taking their medication on a schedule and in the manner prescribed by their doctor or health provider. What does that mean? That means that let's say you have poison-iving. You've got poison-iving really bad. And they prescribed you a blister pack that is essentially a steroid treatment. And you have to take X number of pills the first day, Y number of pills the next day, and so on and so forth until your poison-iv is gone. You have learned your lesson, go in peace and do not touch strange plants again.
患者有时候很难按医生或保健提供者规定的时间和方式服药。这是什么意思呢？比方说你得了毒葡萄皮炎，情况非常严重。医生为你开了一个泡腾片，基本上是类固醇治疗。你需要每天服用X颗药片，第二天服用Y颗药片，施施然后就可以治愈你的毒葡萄皮炎了。你已经吃过苦头了，以后平安离开，不要再摸陌生的植物了。
Yes. Well, yes. And this is a, like Ben said, a big issue for the healthcare industrial complex. Let's call it. So what they call it patient non-adherence to prescribe to medication. That's like the long way about it. And it's associated with all kinds of things. For outcomes for being prescribed medication that's supposed to do something, well, it doesn't happen if you don't take the medication correctly. It's associated with progression of diseases because, again, it's not being treated properly.
是的，嗯。就像Ben说的那样，这是医疗产业复合体面临的一个重大问题。我们可以称之为患者未按医嘱服药。这是一个比较长的说法，与各种情况有关。如果你没有正确服用药物，那么被开具药物来治疗某些事情的结果就不会发生。它也与疾病的进展有关，因为治疗不当。
And it's got a huge estimated burden of billions of dollars on the healthcare industry. It costs billions of dollars because people don't take their medications correctly. That was mind-blowing to me. Didn't you have the, didn't you dig up the, the stat there, the estimate that between $100 and $300 billion have been attributed to this?
它的预计成本对于医疗保健行业来说是数十亿美元的巨大负担。由于人们没有正确地服药，这造成了数十亿美元的成本。这对我来说是令人震惊的。你没有挖出、没有找到这个统计数据吗？据估计已有100至300亿美元归因于此。
Yeah. Yeah. That's just in the US specifically and you're talking about a privatized healthcare system. But still, that represents 3 to 10 percent of the total United States healthcare costs.
是的。是的。那只是在美国特别是私人医疗保健制度中的情况。但仍然，这占据了美国医疗保健总费用的3到10％。
So what are the top reasons that people don't take the medicine there prescribed? Well, according to this one academic paper that was referencing several different, I guess, polls, number one is forgetfulness. Number two is side effects or perceived side effects. Number three is high drug costs. Like it costs way too much for me to take all these pills. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to separate it out a little more than what's prescribed. And that statistic is probably going to increase in the US.
那么为什么人们不服用医生开的药呢？嗯，根据一篇学术论文引用了多个不同的调查结果，第一是健忘。第二是药物副作用或认为有副作用。第三是高昂的药费。比如对我来说，花费太多，我可能会按不同的剂量服用药物。这一统计数字在美国可能会增加。
Oh, absolutely. And then number four was just that the drug does little to nothing to actually affect what I'm going through. Is that a self report on the patient's part? These are all self reports. Yeah. This is what patients say about why they're not taking their medication.
哦，完全正确。接下来，第四点是药物对我的症状几乎毫无作用。这是患者自我报告吗？是的，这些都是自我报告。患者说这些是他们不服药的原因。
So maybe just to be completely clear with everyone, maybe we should say the patient believes the drug does little.
也许为了让大家完全明白，我们应该说患者认为这种药没什么作用。
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, patient belief, all that stuff. The patient believes the drug costs is too high according to their budget. The patient believes the side effects are happening to them, you know, according to them.
哦，是啊。完全正确。是啊。是的，患者坚信这些，所有这些。患者相信药物费用过高，超出了他们的预算。患者相信自己正在经历副作用，据他们所说。
You know, it seems strange, doesn't it? Because while we know that there are multiple cases of terrible situations happening when people are over prescribed, you know, and someone takes a drug for a condition A, but it produces a side effect and they have to take a drug for that side effect. And then have to take another drug for that side effect. You know, with this giant cocktail of drugs you're taking inside of it. And although we know that happens in my case, I feel like if I already went, I don't want to sound too Larry David about this, but like if I already had to take some time off from work and I had to go to a doctor's office and I might have had to pay to park. It was this whole thing. You know, and then they prescribe some sort of medication for cold or whatever. I'm going to trust them and I'm going to probably take it unless it's something really weird, you know.
你知道的，感觉有点奇怪，对不对？因为我们都知道有很多情况，人们被过度处方而发生了可怕的情况。你知道的，有人为了治疗疾病A而服用某种药物，但它产生了副作用，他们不得不服用另一种药物来治疗副作用。然后又不得不服用其他药物来应对副作用。你知道的，这个药物摇篮里的药物混合物。虽然我们知道这种情况经常发生，但我觉得如果我已经去了，我不想说得太像Larry David，但如果我已经不得不请假去看了医生的话，我可能还要付停车费。那是一个整个的过程。你知道的，然后他们就会开一些治疗感冒或其他疾病的药物给我。我会相信他们，除非是非常奇怪的情况。
All right, we're going to do the first ever episode of Honesty Corner with Maddie Fred. And here it goes. I have a bad back. I've had it for a long time. I just have back pain. It works fine. It does everything I need it to do. I can still lift heavy stuff, but man, does it hurt? It's the only bad thing about you, by the way.
好的，我们要做第一期由Maddie Fred主持的“诚实角落”节目了。让我们开始吧。我有背痛问题，这个问题已经有很长一段时间了。我的背痛只是轻微的疼痛，我还能够做我需要做的事情，比如举重等等。但是，非常痛苦。顺便说一下，背痛是我唯一的不好之处。
Oh, stop it.
哦，别这样。
Well, well, I've, you know, been to several physicians and talked about this finding ways to help me. And I was once prescribed this drug called Soma, which is a muscle relaxer. And I was told to take it and then come back and see them and see if anything happened. I chose not to after researching the drug and its side effects and what it does to you.
嗯，嗯，我去看过几位医生，询问他们有没有什么方法可以帮助我。其中我曾被处方了一种名为Soma的肌肉松弛药。医生告诉我先吃一段时间，然后再回去看看有没有变化。但我在调查该药物的副作用和对身体的影响后，选择了不服用。
But you know, that in this case, it was a physician trying to give me a medication that would make me feel better for my ailment, but I as the patient chose not to. And I wonder, I wonder, oh, gosh, I just contributed to the several billion dollars. Oh, yeah. Healthcare costs. That's on you now.
但你知道，在这种情况下，是一名医生想给我开药来治疗我的疾病，让我感觉更好，但是作为患者，我选择不使用。我在想，我在想，哦，天啊，我刚刚造成了几十亿美元的财务负担。是啊，医疗保健费用，现在轮到你来承担了。
And so it's true though, there are these honest concerns. And they come from a very valid place, right? And it's not only is it very difficult and ill informed to call one group of people in this argument, the bad guys, quote unquote, and another group, the good guys, it's also unethical.
所以，这是真的，确实存在这些诚实的担忧。它们来自于一个非常有效的地方，对吧？不仅仅是把争议中的一个群体称为“坏人”，另一个群体称为“好人”，这样做难以且不明智，而且也是不道德的。
Because there are situations where, okay, just a little bit of a weird comparison if you're with it, Matt. So I've always thought that your body, you listening to this specifically, your body is a lot like a car. And you know, if you own a car for a while, you are probably and you drive it every day. You might not be a mechanic, but you know your particular car very, very well.
因为有些情况可能有点奇怪，不过，马特，你会明白的。所以我一直认为，你听着，你的身体很像一辆车。如果你拥有一辆车一段时间并且每天驾驶它，你可能不是个机械师，但你一定非常了解你自己的车。
Definitely. And you know, when you know, second gear slips a little, you know that you might have to give it a little extra gas on a cold day and when to check the tires and that one door doesn't quite line up, but you remember what, you know, that you hit something in that parking lot or whatever, you know your car. And the thing is, in many ways, even if you are not a mechanic, even if you are not a doctor, your body is going to be the body you know the best, the car you know the best because you only get out of it once when you die. Yeah.
当你很确定的时候，你会知道在二挡时会有一点点打滑，你会知道在冷天需要加一点油门，你还知道什么时候需要检查轮胎，以及为什么有一扇门对不上。或许是因为你记得在停车场撞到了什么，但你对自己的车还是很清楚。实际上，无论你是不是机械师或医生，你的身体却是你最了解的，就像车子一样。因为你只有在死亡时才能彻底离开它。
Well, well, okay, okay, okay. You're right. And I'm glad you said that.
嗯，嗯，好，好，好。你是对的。而且我很高兴你这么说。
All right. So some people will tell you you can sneak out of your car occasionally. Yeah.
好的。有些人会告诉你，偶尔可以悄悄离开你的汽车。是的。
Right? Or do you circumstances? Yes.
对吗？或者你的情况不一样吗？是的。
Yeah. Well, I think it's, I think the concept of remote viewing or accidental astral travel as an experience, a subjective experience, I think it's way more common than it's often reported. And in fact, if I recall, we did a couple episodes on this or aspects of it. Anyway, you know, you're the car that you only get out of permanently once.
嗯，我认为，遥感观测或意外的星际旅行作为一种经历，一种主观经历，比人们通常报道的要常见得多。实际上，如果我没记错的话，我们在一些节目中讨论了这方面的内容。总之，你是一辆车，只有一次机会永久离开。
Yes. And with the advancement of technology, perhaps we'll be able to just jump cars whenever we feel like it or get a flying car. Oh, yeah.
是的。随着技术的进步，也许我们可以随时随地跳车，甚至开飞车。哦，是啊。
Oh, you want to ride this comparison? Yeah.
哦，你想要跟这个比较？好的。
So before we take the body as car analogy on a long road trip, we should talk about the opponents here. And we just did that extended comparison to say in defense of people who have decided that they are not going to take a particular medication because they have any number of valid reasons.
在我们使用身体和汽车类比来比喻长途旅行之前，我们应该先谈谈对手。我们刚刚进行了深入的比较，以支持那些因多种有效理由而决定不服用特定药物的人。
One might be that they have an incurable condition that they would rather live with than suffer from the side effects of the medication they're supposed to be taking. Right? And it goes back to their perception of their own quality of life. But again, they are not, they are not medical professionals often. But now that we've established that, we should look at the opponents of this, of this emerging technology. Yeah, specifically of digital medicine in general.
也许是因为他们有一种不治之症，他们宁愿接受它，也不想忍受因他们所应该服用的药物而产生的副作用。对吧？这跟他们对自己生活质量的感知有关。但再次强调，他们通常不是医疗专业人士。但既然我们已经确定了这一点，我们应该看一下这项新兴技术的反对者，特别是数字医学的反对者。
Right.
好的。
You know, one of the biggest issues I've seen is that the amount of money that this would save and the benefit, I guess, benefit to cost ratio and all the varying ways this will cost us as humans. And you know, as a private company selling a technology as well, it doesn't balance out. Like, they don't think this is the solution to get people, patients to take their medicine.
你知道，我看到的最大问题之一是，这会节省多少钱以及对成本比率的好处，以及人类将以各种不同的方式付出的代价。而且你知道，作为一家销售技术的私人公司，这并不平衡。他们不认为这是让人们服用药物的解决方案。
And just by having the ability to track the medication doesn't mean that the person is going to take it. It'll help the physician know if they get access to the information that the patient's not taking their medicine.
仅仅拥有追踪药物的能力并不意味着那个人会服药。如果医生获得患者未服药的信息，这会有助于医生了解情况。
Oh, I see. Because for right now, it's opt-in on the part of the patient.
哦，我明白了。因为现在患者可以选择是否参加。
It's opt-in and it's, you know, I. And then it'll turn into opt-out. And then a few years from now, maybe even before your son is in his twenties, it's going to be a mandatory.
这是自愿的，你知道，只要我。然后它会变成默认接受。再过几年，甚至在你儿子二十多岁之前，它将变成强制要求。
Yeah, it's going to be strange if it doesn't have some. If a medicine doesn't have some sort of tracer.
如果药品没有某种追踪剂的话，那就有点奇怪了。
Yeah.
是的。
It's possible. It's quite possible at this point.
在这个阶段，这是很有可能的。
Opponents do argue that this is another case of the erosion of privacy. And one of the big sticking points is. I'm going to be familiar to a lot of people in any medicine-related field.
反对者认为这是隐私侵蚀的又一个案例。其中一个大争议点是，我会为任何与医学相关的领域中的许多人所熟知。
One of the big sticking points is the sale of your. The most personal of your personal information to third parties. These could be advertisers. These could be insurance companies. These could be employers. These could be banks.
其中一个大瓶颈是出售你的个人信息。把最个人的信息出售给第三方。这些可能是广告商。这些可能是保险公司。这些可能是雇主。这些可能是银行。
Banks. Yeah, that's another good call. These could be any number of people and in last law's change, you will never know until maybe your bank turns down a loan or maybe you suddenly get a higher interest rate or a number of things that would be seemingly inexplicable or out of the blue begin to occur to you and then you have to sort of be like what's his name? Guy Pearson Memento. And work backwards and just put the pieces together to figure out what happened, who sold this and why.
是的，这是个好主意。这些人可以是任何人，在最近的法律变化中，你永远不会知道，直到你的银行拒绝贷款或你突然遇到更高的利率或者发生一些看似难以解释或突然发生的事情，然后你必须像Guy Pearson Memento一样工作，向后追溯，把碎片拼起来，找出到底发生了什么，谁卖了这个东西，为什么。
And again, unless the law is changed, you will also not be given a cut of what they sell. And we do want to be clear right now, right now the party line is that this information is going to be somehow anonymous, right? And it's just to aggregate data set to build better predictions to see general trends. I think it goes a little further than that, Ben. I think it's a system that we set up to where only your phone is going to get the information unless you send it out to anybody else.
再说一遍，除非法律有改变，否则你也无法获得他们所销售的内容的一部分。我们现在要明确一点，现在的党派立场是这些信息将以某种方式匿名，对吧？这只是一个汇总数据集来建立更好的预测，看到一般趋势。我认为这比那个更深入一点，Ben。我认为这是一个我们设置的系统，只有你的手机才能获取这些信息，除非你将它发送给其他人。
So I guess it would be kind of like I'm trying to find an analogy for this, but taking a picture. Every time you take one of these pills, it's like taking a picture and unless you decide to send it to your doctor or your friends, nobody is going to know about it unless they hack your phone. I guess is the way I'm imagining it. Or the server of the company, Proteus that's making the software.
所以我想这有点像是我在尝试找一个比方，就像拍照片一样。每次你吃这些药片就像拍照片一样，除非你决定将它发送给你的医生或者朋友，否则除了黑客入侵你的手机，没有人会知道。这就是我想象的方式。或者这个软件的制造商Proteus公司的服务器。
Right. That's the question. And that's the concern. Whether it's a government or whether it's a private entity, the question remains the same. Who watches the watchers? Who holds the powerful accountable?
没错，这就是问题所在，也是人们所关注的。不管是政府还是私人机构，问题都是一样的，那就是谁来监督监督者呢？谁来追责那些有权力的人呢？
And this may seem like a little bit of alarmism, perhaps. This may seem like a little bit of a doom and gloom for something that is inarguably a good thing, right? Especially according to the proponents, because it goes back to the idea that this could save lives.
这可能会让人觉得有点过于警惕了，对于肯定是件好事的事情来说，这似乎有点悲观，不是吗？特别是对于那些支持者来说，因为这符合能够拯救生命的想法。
And we know that continual monitoring has already existed, right? For anybody with a fit bit, there's some sort of app on your phone that tells you to quit smoking or to count your calories or to make sure that you take a minimum of 10,000 steps a day. We know that this stuff already exists. This is a step to put it inside you.
我们知道，不断监测已经存在，对吧？如果你有一个 fit bit，那么你的手机上会有一种应用程序，告诉你戒烟或计算卡路里，或确保你每天至少走10000步。我们知道这些东西已经存在了。这是把它们放在你体内的一步。
And right now, it's a simple check-in system, right? It's so for instance, right now, there is nothing to stop someone if they for some reason said, you know what? I'm going to take six of these pills because, whew, whatever. I'm going to share with my doctor and they need to know that, you know, I'm taking them this way. There's nothing physically stopping it, you know what I mean?
现在，它只是一个简单的签到系统，对吧？例如，现在，如果某个人想要吃六片药片，因为他们觉得应该这样做，那么就没有任何阻止他们的东西。我会和我的医生分享这个信息，他们需要知道，我正在这样服用药物。没有任何身体上的限制，你知道我的意思吧？
Yes. Like there's not a mechanism to prevent the release, maybe, of the. Sure. Yeah, like what if this sort of technology became mandatory and not opt-in and was applied to legally prescribed opiates, right? Which are very dangerous and addictive substances.
是的。就像没有防止这种技术被释放的机制一样，也许吧。当然。对，如果这种技术变成了必须使用而不是可选的，并且应用于法律处方的鸦片类药物，对吧？这些药物非常危险且易成瘾。
So then you would be in a situation, especially if you had a past history of abuse, where you would be monitored to make sure that not only did you take it at whatever pill you're pursuing at 3 p.m. or something, but that you only take it then. Yeah. You don't take two or three or whatever and then also to make sure that that ping happens every number of times, one per pill, right? So that they know you're not selling it on the black market.
那么，如果你曾经有虐待的历史，你就会处于一种处境，需要被监测，以确保你不仅在3点服用你追求的任何药片，而且只在那个时候服用。是的，你不会服用两个或三个或其他剂量，也要确保每个药丸都按时服用，这样他们就知道你没有在黑市上出售它。
Yeah. You see, what starts is a very little helpful thing does indeed have wide reaching implications. Oh, yeah. I've got two examples right here. So if each one has a specific, let's say, MAC address. It's not got MAC address, but each one has a specific serial number or something, each pill. Then you will know if someone sells their pills and to whom sells those pills if you are tracking the ingestion of these. That could get really interesting in the future.
嗯。你看，一个看似微不足道的小帮手，的确具有广泛的影响力。哦，是的。我这里有两个例子。如果每一颗药片都有一个特定的MAC地址，或者说是某个序列号，那么如果跟踪这些药片的摄入情况，你就会知道谁将他们卖出去，以及卖给了谁。这在未来可能会变得非常有趣。
And another thing was overdoses. If you could find a way to control the release mechanism, you could prevent overdosing of practically anything that isn't injectable. Yeah, and that's the silver lining I'm saying. Totally. Because for proponents of this trend, make no mistake, it is a trend.
另外一个问题是过量使用。如果你能找到一种控制释放机制的方法，你就可以防止几乎任何非注射类物质的过量使用。是啊，这就是我所说的好处。完全没错。因为对于这种趋势的支持者来说，毫无疑问，这是一种趋势。
This is not the last you're going to hear about this technology. For proponents of this, that just seems like another good thing, another tick in the box of pros. Yeah. Because you're saying, oh, we could stop drug dealers. We could maybe combat at some level. What are they called, pill mills?
这项技术还会被提及，这不是你最后一次听到它的消息。对于支持者来说，这似乎只是另一个好事情，另一个优点。是的，因为你可以说，哦，我们可以阻止毒贩子。我们可能可以在某种程度上打击所谓的“药丸工厂”。
Yeah. It's tough for me to say that because different accents I have come out. So the. Of course, I just have to say at that point, if you wanted, I'm telling people how to do that. Go for it. But you would just, depending on what the pill is made out of, I'm assuming it can't be indestructible because you have to process it through your body. But you just get the pills and then break them up and then leave out the sensors. Oh, I see. Change the method of delivery. Yeah. Just saying.
是的。我很难说这个，因为我的口音很不一样。当然，如果你想知道，我可以告诉你如何做。只要看看药丸是什么做的，因为我猜测药丸不可能无法破坏，因为你需要通过身体来处理它。你只需要拿到药丸，然后打碎它们，把传感器留下。哦，我明白了。改变投递方式。是的。只是说说而已。
But I think that's a problem that humanity a lot of times forgets when we're trying to solve these huge problems. When you're trying to deal, especially with substance abuse of any kind, mankind is very inventive. Sure. And we'll find a way. I mean, that's just.
我认为这是人类在解决这些巨大问题时经常忽视的一个问题。特别是在应对各种药物滥用方面，人类非常有创造力。当然。我们会找到方法的。这只是...
All right, but you owe it to everybody. Paul and I include it to do a gold bloom version of that one. A gold bloom version of that one? Of that line. I don't know if I have a gold bloom. I don't think I can do it. Yeah, it can. Gold blooms like life finds a way. Or something. I think it's worth a catering. Can you do that? Can you do that one? That was it. That was it. Swing in a mess. All right. Lift pretty hard on that one. I enjoyed it a lot. That's very kind. You're a very kind person.
好的，但你欠每个人这件事。保罗和我打算做一种金色绽放版本的那个。金色绽放版本？那句话。我不知道我能不能做到金色绽放。我觉得它就像生命找到一条路一样。或其他什么的。我觉得值得献殷勤一下。你能做到吗？你能那样做吗？就是那个。就是那个。漂亮的一击。好的。那个很有趣。你真是个很善良的人。
So there's another thing we could say here too, Matt. This question would be, so we're talking about changing the means of delivering. Or we're talking about somehow removing the sensor, right? Another option, at least in this case, this variant of a billify, would be to remove the patch. Yes. Because the patch is the means of transmission for the app on the phone. And later the web portal. That might work, however, this variant of the billify is only one instance of a larger sea change or medical advancement, right? That is probably past the point of no return at this time. So what else is out there? We'll tell you, after a word from our sponsor.
所以Matt，我们还可以说另一件事。这个问题是，我们正在讨论改变传递的方式。或者我们正在谈论以某种方式去除传感器，对吧？在这种情况下，这个阿比利发的一个变种的另一个选择可能是去除贴片。是的。因为贴片是手机应用程序传输的手段。以后可能还会有网站的方式。这可能有效，但是这个阿比利发的变种只是一种更大的医学进步或浩瀚变革的实例，对吧？这个可能已经无法回头了。那么还有什么其他选择呢？我们将在赞助商广告后告诉您。
Okay. So let's say hypothetically, Matt, you said, you don't know me. You can't run my business. I'll take the drugs I want when I want them. May, man, you don't know me. I'm going to take the drugs I want on my time in my schedule, all right? Yeah, that's good. I didn't want to. I was going soft on a Southern accent there. Say, I didn't want to offend you, but I think you nailed it. You know, it just, it lives inside me. Sometimes it escapes. That's how I feel about some things too. Yeah. Moving on. There's no need to get into a little sorts of episode yet. We'll wait until next Halloween, maybe.
好的。假设你说，你不认识我，你不能管我做生意。我会在我想要的时候吸食毒品。嘿，你不认识我。我会在我的时间表中随心所欲地吸毒，好吗？嗯，那挺好的。我不想冒犯你，但我觉得你说得很好。你知道吗，有时它会逃脱出来，就像我对一些事情的感觉一样。好了，我们继续吧。暂时不需要掉进这种混乱的情节中，或许等到下个万圣节再说吧。
So you're telling me you left me on a cliffhanger here. It's true. You said before we went to the break that there are other people making digital drugs? Oh, yes, yes. Of course. A Florida company named E-TechRX is making another sort of sensor, ingestible sensor. There's is called the ID cap. And as we record this, it has already been tested or it's being tested on a number of different drugs, including opioids and HIV medication. Here's our works. It's made of magnesium and silver chloride. It's encapsulated with pills and you don't need a patch because the entire time it's inside the body, as it's being ingested, it generates a low power radio signal that can be picked up by a little antenna if it's near you. What? Yep.
你是在告诉我你让我看到了一个悬念。没错，你在我们休息前说还有其他人在制造数字药品？哦，是的，没错。佛罗里达的 E-TechRX 公司正在制造另一种类型的感应器，可以被吃下去的感应器。它被称为 ID Cap。截至我们录制这段视频时，它已被测试，或正在被用于测试多种不同的药物，包括阿片类药物和艾滋病药物。下面是它的工作原理。它由镁和氯化银制成，被封装在药丸里，你不需要贴片，因为当它被吃下去时，它会在体内一直产生低功率的无线电信号，如果它靠近你，它的信号可以被一个小天线接收到。什么？没错。
And that's according to Harry Travis, the president of E-TechRX. They are currently seeking FDA clearance for this application in 2018. And of course, FDA applications are notoriously difficult unless you know the right people and have the right political connections. Hold on a second. Yeah. I just thought of something. Would these new digital pills, does that mean we will all be pooping out tiny little sensors every time we go to the bathroom? I mean, that's the dream, right? Especially, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, that's not the dream. But especially if you're taking multiple medications, each of them having a sensor, your bowel movement is going to be 20% metal and microelectronics. 20%. I mean, depending because you're talking about a 24 hour period anyway, all right. Well, just saying we're pooping a lot of metal stuff out.
这是根据E-TechRX总裁Harry Travis所说的。他们正在寻求2018年的FDA批准这一应用程序。当然，除非您认识正确的人并具有正确的政治联系，否则FDA的申请通常是极为困难的。等一下。是的。我突然想到了一些事情。这些新的数字药丸，这是否意味着每次上厕所时我们都会排出微小的传感器？我的意思是，这就是梦想，对吧？我是说开玩笑的，开玩笑的，这不是梦想。但特别是如果您正在服用多种药物，每种药物都有一个传感器，那么您的排便会含有20%的金属和微电子器件。20%。我的意思是，具体取决于24小时内的情况，好吧。我只是想说我们会排出很多金属物质。
So this might sound comedic of us and to a degree it is, right? We're talking about poop. Yeah, the future of weird defecation. That's something that concerns a lot of people. And I think we earned that joke because we talked about fecal matter transplants once years ago and we both kept a straight, straight lace series tone the whole way through. Seriously, I don't even think we mentioned pooping back and forth forever. We have now. But even though it does feel comedic and to a degree it is, what we're seeing is that every time there's a medical advancement, there are inherently going to be ripple effects, many of which, not all but many of which are going to be unpredictable, right? And some of which may be very dangerous.
这可能听起来很滑稽，而且在某种程度上确实是这样，是吧？我们在谈论排泄物。是的，奇怪的排便未来，这是许多人关心的问题。我认为我们能开这个玩笑是因为几年前我们曾谈论过粪菌移植，而我们都一直保持着严肃的态度。说真的，我甚至觉得我们从来没有提到过来回拉屎这件事。现在我们提到了。但是，即使这听起来很滑稽，而且在某种程度上确实如此，但我们看到的是，每次有医学进步时，都会有自然而然的连锁反应，其中许多反应是不可预测的，其中有些反应可能非常危险。
Now back when it took us as a species 300 years to figure out things that seem simple today, we had a little bit more buffer time collectively. We had a little bit more of a margin in which to experience these implications and these ripple effects as they rolled out.
那个时候，当我们作为一个物种花费了300年的时间去理解今天看来很简单的事情时，我们集体拥有了更多的缓冲时间。我们有更多的余地去经历这些影响和蔓延，因为它们正在展开。
Okay, yeah. But now with this increasing frequency of medical advancements, which again, barring an asteroid, gamma ray burst a coronal mass ejection, then unless something destroys civilization as we understand it, this pace is going to continue increasing and there are going to be smaller and smaller windows of time to analyze, address and if necessary mitigate these ripple effects.
嗯，是的。但现在随着医学进步越来越频繁，除了小行星、伽马射线暴露和日冕物质抛射等灾难，如果不是像我们理解的那样毁灭文明的事情发生，这个速度将会继续增加，而分析、解决和必要时缓解这些连锁效应的时间窗口将会越来越小。
We are right now on the bleeding edge of not only the future of medicine, but also the future of monitoring. Yes, absolutely. And I for one have played entirely too many video games to be okay with this, looking at you, Deus Ex, specifically looking at you.
我们现在正处于医学和监测未来的前沿，没错。我个人玩了太多视频游戏，对此并不满意，看着你，Deus Ex，特别是看着你。
I completely understand the goals set out by the healthcare industry, reduce cost and get patients to take their medicines so we can actually help people. But I would argue that the cost is probably the most important thing for the healthcare industry, at least in the United States.
我完全理解医疗行业所设定的目标，即降低成本并让患者服用药物，以便我们可以真正帮助人们。但我认为，在美国，成本可能是医疗行业最重要的事情。
But I'm not sure that trackable medicine really is the answer, but I do agree with you Ben, like this is a good stepping point in the way we're going to get to the better future, the better medicine. You can definitely see the linkage there to how it can help. And right now, I guess you just have to take that step in order to get there.
我并不确定可追踪药物真的是答案，但我同意你Ben，就像这是通往更好的未来和更好的医学的好开始。你肯定能看到它如何有助于推进这个目标。现在，我想你只需要迈出这一步就能达到那里了。
I think you do, yeah, you have to. Right, okay. But it still bothers me because it feels like it's something ripped out of the science fiction novel or again, Deus Ex that I don't want to be a part of. What happened in Deus Ex? That's just where humans are becoming androids and replacing different parts of their body and upgrading and humanity. The state of humanity is really looked into.
我觉得你确实需要这样做。嗯，好吧。但是它仍然困扰着我，因为它感觉像是从科幻小说或者再次的《太阳神之眼》中剥离出来的东西，而我不想成为其中的一部分。《太阳神之眼》中发生了什么？那里的人类正在变成机器人，替换他们身体中的不同部位并升级。人性状态受到了深入的探讨。
You're not going to do that. You're not going to take some cyber implants? I haven't decided yet. Phil is sofically. I think it's if I could just take my brain, my neuro, like if you could map my brain out and then send that as a piece of software into a robot, I'm okay with that, I think. Really? Because I feel like I could live forever. But having pieces of metal integrated into my body, I don't know.
你不会那么做的。你不会接受一些人工智能的植入物吗？我还没有决定。Phil很聪明。我认为如果我能够将我的大脑、神经移植到机器人中，就像把我的脑图映射到软件中发送过去一样，我觉得这样做是可以接受的。真的吗？因为我感觉我可以永远活下去。但是我不知道将金属部件融入我的身体会怎么样。
I wonder if Paul would get electric eyes or something. He's saying maybe. He's giving a probably not shrug. He's pointing to, as Chester said, pacemaker. Oh, okay. You're saying that pacemaker's already exists. So this is to some extent already happening. Wow. We're like miming to each other through the, this is great.
我在想，保罗会不会装上电眼或什么的。他说可能会，但又无可奈何地耸了耸肩。他指着起搏器，正如切斯特所说的。哦，好的，你的意思是已经有这种起搏器存在了。这意味着在某种程度上，这已经在发生了。哇，我们正在通过这种方式相互比划，这真是太棒了。
Well, off-air Paul did chime in and, well, would love you to chime in on air sometime. We'll see if we can convince him in a future episode. Don't let him see behind the curtain. Don't let us know if you want to hear what Paul sounds like and if he is amenable to it, we will.
好的，在节目停播后，保罗发出了一些声音，他希望你也能上节目发表意见。我们将看看能否在未来一期说服他。不要让他看到幕后。如果你想听听保罗的声音，并且他愿意的话，我们可以安排。
We will see. We will see. For sure. But right now, we are not fans of things being mandatory. We think that people should have agency and the ability to make their own decisions. And it is true. Look, it is true. This is not an inherently evil thing. Yes, it just has implications. Not to sound too much like Dennis on implication on always something in Philadelphia, but yes, yes, it is true.
我们会看看。我们肯定会看看。但是现在，我们不喜欢事情成为强制性的。我们认为人们应该有自主权和做出自己决定的能力。这是真的。看，这是真的。这并不是本质上的邪恶事物。是的，它只是有一些影响。不想听起来像《费城顽主》中的邓尼斯一样，但是，是的，是的，这是真的。
And I just want to list something that would be a very good aspect of this. Imagine if we're talking about an elderly patient who maybe has memory problems, right? And then has a regimen of multiple drugs that they must take. This could save their lives. This could easily without a doubt save their lives and maybe increase the quality of their life at the same time. But it still doesn't address the larger question, which is at what price progress?
我只是想列举一个非常好的方面。想象一下，我们正在谈论一个有记忆问题的年长患者，他们需要服用多种药物。这可能会拯救他们的生命，这毫无疑问可以拯救他们的生命，同时可能提高他们的生活质量。但这仍然没有解决一个更大的问题，那就是进步的代价是什么？
We have established the frequency of significant medical advances is increasing. And on balance, overall, this looks to be a wonderful phenomenon. It has the potential to save lives, which is what medicine is supposed to be about. And lives and increasing the quality of those lives until everybody finally hops out of their cars.
我们已经确定，显著的医学进步频率正在增加。总的来说，这看起来是一个非常美妙的现象。它有潜力拯救生命，这才是医学应该关注的问题。生命和提高这些生命的质量，直到每个人最终都会下车。
Diseases that once ravaged entire communities can now be fixed with something as simple as a once a day pill schedule or a shot in the arm. But the problem is that with this stellar progress in the field of medicine, we do not see the same amount of progress, the same increasing advances or the frequency of advances in the halls of government, right? The people making the laws are still moving at the same pace.
曾经蹂躏整个社区的疾病现在可以通过每天服用一颗简单的药丸或注射来解决。但问题是，尽管医学领域取得了如此惊人的进展，但我们并没有看到政府的立法者在同样的节奏下取得同样的进展、不断增长的进展或进展的频率，对吧？制定法律的人仍在以相同的步伐前进。
We don't see it in the field of bioethics or academia and philosophy. There are people who are tackling these problems conceptually, right? And in an applied manner, but the medicine is evolving faster than the social constructs that we have to address it or to handle it in the best possible way.
我们在生物伦理学、学术界和哲学领域中都没有看到这一现象。有人正在从概念上着手解决这些问题，对吧？并且以实际应用的方式，但是医学发展的速度比我们必须解决它或以最佳可能的方式处理它所需的社会结构发展得更快。
And we want to hear from you. Are you for this? Are you against it? Do you think on balance this, it's better for this to exist? Or do you think it could be misused, abused somehow? And if so, in what way? Yeah, do you think it could benefit your life in some way to be able to track the medications you take? Or are you nervous about metal in your poop? I mean, honestly, I am. We didn't prove that though, yes.
我们想听听你的想法。你支持这个吗？你反对吗？你认为这样做更好，综合考虑？或者你认为它可能被滥用、误用？如果是，它会以什么方式？你认为能够追踪你服用的药物可能对你的生活有好处吗？还是你担心在你的便便中有金属？老实说，我也很担心。不过我们没有证明。
I know. Maybe the sensors are made out of something else, something biological that breaks down. I didn't see anything about that in the messaging from the website, but perhaps. So we want to hear from you. This is typically the time where we would do shout out corner. However, as we are missing our third half, we're going to hold because this letter that we were going to read is a very meaningful one.
我知道。也许传感器是由其他东西制成的，可能是一些会分解的生物物质。我在网站的信息中没有看到关于这个的任何信息，但或许是这样。所以我们想要听听你的想法。通常这是我们会呼喊出感谢的时间，但由于我们缺少一半，我们会暂停这个环节，因为我们将要读的信件非常有意义。
And I think we may have teased in a previous episode. Yes. Some of the mysteries of Georgia guidestone. So we will wait until we are Voltron together. Captain Planeted up in full force for that letter M4Hour shout out corner. In the meantime, you can find us on Instagram, you can find us on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter and you can write to us on all of those avenues with suggestions for stories with reactions. The stuff that you think your fellow listeners would be interested in hearing.
我认为我们在之前的一集中可能已经提到了一些乔治亚指南针的奥秘。是的。所以我们会等到我们一起变形，像宇宙战士般准备好写信 M4Hour 的招呼角落。同时，你可以在 Instagram 上找到我们，在 Facebook 上找到我们，在 Twitter 上找到我们，并通过所有这些渠道给我们写信，告诉我们关于故事和反应的建议。你认为你的听众朋友会有兴趣听到的内容。
It's really simple. Conspiracy at howstuffworks.com. And that's the end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact with us in a number of different ways. One of the best is to give us a call. Our number is 1833STDWYTK. If you don't want to do that, you can send us a good old-fashioned email. We are. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio.com.
这很简单。在howstuffworks.com上的阴谋。这就是这个经典剧集的结束。如果您对此剧集有任何想法或疑问，可以通过多种不同的方式与我们联系。其中最好的方法之一是拨打我们的电话。我们的电话号码是1833STDWYTK。如果您不想这样做，也可以发送一封传统的电子邮件。我们的电子邮箱是Conspiracy at iHeartRadio.com。
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
“Stuff they don't want you to know” 是iHeartRadio制作的节目。如果想听更多iHeartRadio的播客，请访问iHeartRadio应用程序、苹果播客，或者您喜欢的任何其他地方。
Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions. Like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
嗨，我是大卫·伊戈尔曼。我有一个叫做iHeart的 Inner Cosmos 新播客。我将探索我们的大脑和经验之间的关系，探索不寻常的问题。例如，我们能为人类创造新的感官吗？所以请周周加入我，揭示你的大脑如何引导你的行为、感知和现实。在 iHeartRadio 应用程序、Apple Podcasts 或无论何处获取您的播客上收听 David Eagleman 的 Inner Cosmos。
The Man of All Caves. I say the Lord works in the Stereo's Ways. A brand new immersive fiction podcast. I know. EA got nothing on the devil. Starring Westworld's Jonathan Tucker and Eddie Githegi from Twilight. Every minute I remain in Inner Wall County to think of the fog gets.
那个探险家是所有洞穴的专家。我觉得上帝以立体声的方式在工作，全新的沉浸式虚构播客。我知道了，EA与魔鬼根本没什么区别。由《西部世界》的乔纳森·塔克和《暮光之城》的埃迪·吉瑟吉主演。每一分钟我留在内墙县都在思考那迷雾。
To know, to uncover what happened when three boys entered a Tennessee cave, but only one returned. This is the exact spot where we found the bodies, Julie. The Man of All Caves. MA and T-A-W-A-U-K. Listen to the Man of All Caves now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
了解、揭露当三个男孩进入田纳西州的一个洞穴时发生了什么，但只有一个人回来了。这是我们发现尸体的确切位置，朱莉。所有洞穴之王。MA和T-A-W-A-U-K。现在在iHeartRadio应用程序、苹果播客或您听播客的任何地方收听所有洞穴之王的声音。
I'm Jay Shetty, and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon.
嗨，我是Jay Shetty，在我的播客节目《On Purpose》中，我很荣幸能够与一些世界上最惊人的心灵和头脑坐下来交谈。奥普拉、科比·布莱恩特、凯文·哈特、路易斯·汉密尔顿等等。在这个播客中，你可以听到他们旅程背后的真实故事，以及他们使用的工具、阅读的书籍，以及在他们生活中产生积极影响的人，这样他们就可以在我们的生活中产生积极影响。在iHeartRadio应用程序，苹果播客或任何你能获得播客的地方收听《On Purpose》与Jay Shetty。快来加入这个旅程吧。