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TSMC 2023 Q2 Earnings Call

发布时间 2023-07-21 13:13:13 来源

Good afternoon everyone and welcome to TSMC's second quarter of 2023 earnings conference call. This is Jeff Su, TSMC's Director of Investor Relations and your host for today.

大家下午好，欢迎参加TSMC 2023年第二季度的盈利电话会议。我是Jeff Su，TSMC的投资者关系主管，今天将担任您的主持人。

TSMC is hosting our earnings conference call via live audio webcast through the company's website at www.tsmc.com where you can also download the earnings release materials. If you are joining us through the conference call, your dial-in lines are in listen only mode.

台积电将通过公司网站www.tsmc.com 的实况音频网络广播举办我们的收益电话会议，您可以在该网站上下载财报材料。如果您通过电话会议参加，您的拨入线路将处于只听模式。

The format for today's event will be as follows. First, TSMC's Vice President and CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, will summarize our operations in the second quarter of 2023 followed by our guidance for the third quarter of 2023.

今天活动的格式如下。首先，台积电副总裁兼首席财务官黄文德先生将总结我们在2023年第二季度的运营情况，接着给出我们在2023年第三季度的指导方针。

Afterwards, Mr. Huang, TSMC CEO, Dr. C.C. Wei, and TSMC's Chairman, Dr. Mark Liu, will join me to provide the company's key messages. Then we will open the line for a question and answer session.

之后，台积电首席执行官黄先进、博士魏哲家以及台积电董事长刘自鸿将与我一同介绍公司的核心信息。接着我们将开放提问环节。

As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risk and uncertainties which could cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements. Please refer to the safe harbor notice that appears in our press release.

如往常一样，我想提醒大家，今天的讨论可能包含前瞻性陈述，这些陈述存在重大风险和不确定性，可能导致实际结果与前瞻性陈述中所含有的结果明显不同。请参阅我们新闻稿中的安全港通告。

And now, I would like to turn the call over to TSMC's CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, for the summary of operations and the current quarter guidance.

现在，我想把电话交给TSMC的首席财务官黄文达先生，他将总结经营情况并提供本季度的指导方针。

Thank you, Jeff. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. My presentation will start with financial highlights for the second quarter of 2023. After that, I will provide the guidance for the third quarter.

谢谢你，杰夫。大家下午好，感谢你们今天的参与。我的演讲将以2023年第二季度的财务亮点开始。之后，我将提供第三季度的指导方针。

Second quarter revenue decreased 5.5% sequentially in NT, or 6.2% in U.S. dollars, as our second quarter business was impacted by the overall global economic conditions, which dampened the end market demand and led to customer's ongoing inventory adjustment.

第二季度收入按台币计算，环比下降了5.5%，按美元计算下降了6.2%。由于全球经济总体状况不佳，影响了我们第二季度的业务，减弱了终端市场需求，导致客户持续进行库存调整。

Growth margin decreased 2.2 percentage points sequentially to 54.1%, mainly reflecting lower capacity, utilization, and higher electricity costs, partially offset by more stringent cost control and a more favorable foreign exchange rate.

增长率较去年同期下降2.2个百分点至54.1%，主要原因是生产能力下降、利用率降低以及电力成本上升，部分抵消的因素包括更严格的成本控制和更有利的外汇汇率。

Despite the industry's cyclical downturn, we continue to invest in R&D to support our N3 and N2 development. Thus, operating margin was 42% down 3.5 percentage points sequentially.

尽管行业处于周期性的下行阶段，但为了支持我们的N3和N2的发展，我们仍然继续投资于研发。因此，我们的营业利润率按季度下降了3.5个百分点，但仍保持在42%的水平。

Overall, our first quarter EPS was 7.01 NT, and ROE was 23.2%.

总体而言，我们的第一季度每股收益为7.01新台币，而股东权益回报率为23.2%。

Now, let's move on to revenue by technology. 5.5 nanometer process technology contributed a 30% of our Wafer revenue. Excuse me, in the second quarter, while 7.0 nanometer accounted for 23%, advanced technologies defined as 7.0 nanometer and below accounted for 53% of Wafer revenue.

现在，让我们转向按技术分类的收入情况。 5.5纳米工艺技术贡献了我们晶圆收入的30%。对不起，在第二季度，7.0纳米技术占23％，而被定义为7.0纳米及以下的先进技术占晶圆收入的53％。

Moving on to revenue contribution by platform, HPC decreased 5% quarter over quarter to account for 44% of our second quarter revenue. Smartphone decreased 9% to account for 33%, IoT decreased 11% to account for 8%, automotive increased 3% to account for 8%, and DCE increased 25% to account for 3%.

转向各平台的收入贡献，高性能计算（HPC）环比下降5%，占我们第二季度收入的44%。智能手机环比下降9%，占33%；物联网环比下降11%，占8%；汽车环比增加3%，占8%；数据中心与企业（DCE）环比增加25%，占3%。

Moving on to the balance sheet, we ended the second quarter with cash and marketable securities of 1.5 trillion NT or 48 billion USD. On the liability side, current liabilities decreased by 62 billion NT, mainly due to the net decrease of 87 billion in income tax payable, as we pay 120 billion for 2022 income tax, offset by 33 billion accrued tax payables for the second quarter.

转向资产负债表，截至第二季度末，我们的现金和可流通证券总额为1.5万亿新台币或480亿美元。在负债方面，流动负债减少了620亿新台币，主要是由于收入税应付款净减少了870亿，因为我们为2022年的所得税支付了1200亿，但抵销了第二季度积欠的330亿应付税款。

Long-term interest bearing debt increased by 53 billion NT, mainly as we raised 41 billion in corporate bonds.

长期的利息负债增加了530亿新台币，主要是因为我们发行了410亿的公司债券。

On financial ratios, accounts receivable turnover days decreased 2 days to 32 days, while days of inventory increased 3 days to 99 days, primarily due to N3 ramp during the quarter.

在财务比率方面，应收账款周转天数减少了2天，为32天，而存货天数增加了3天，为99天，主要是由于本季度N3的推出。

Regarding cash flow and K-PACs, during the second quarter, we generated about 167 billion NT in cash from operations, spent 251 billion in K-PACs, distributed 71 billion for third quarter 2022 cash dividend, and raised 41 billion from corporate bond issuances.

就现金流和K-PACs而言，在第二季度，我们从运营活动中产生了约1670亿元新台币的现金，投资了2510亿元新台币用于K-PACs，分配了710亿元新台币作为2022年第三季度现金股利，并通过企业债券发行筹集了410亿元新台币。

Overall, our cash balance decreased by 109 billion to 1.3 trillion NT at the end of the quarter. Free cash flow was negative 83 billion NT during the quarter, as operating cash flow was more than offset by capital expenditures, partly due to the income tax payment of 120 billion. In US dollar terms, our second quarter capital expenditure is total 8.17 billion.

总体而言，本季度末我们的现金余额减少了1090亿，为1.3万亿新台币。本季度的自由现金流为负830亿新台币，因为经营现金流量超过了资本支出，部分原因是因为支付所得税1200亿新台币。按美元计算，我们第二季度的资本支出总额为8.17亿美元。

I have finished my financial summary. Now, let's turn to our current quarter guidance. Based on the current business outlook, we expect our third quarter revenue to be between 16.7 billion and 17.5 billion USD, which represents a 9.1% sequential increase at the midpoint. Based on the exchange rate assumption of 1 US dollar to 30.8 NT, gross margin is expected to be between 51.5% and 53.5%. Operating margin to be between 38% and 40%.

我已经完成了我的财务摘要。现在，让我们转向我们目前的季度展望。根据目前的业务前景，我们预计第三季度的收入将在167亿美元到175亿美元之间，该数表示在中间值处较上一季度增长了9.1%。根据1美元兑换30.8新台币的汇率假设，毛利率预计将在51.5%到53.5%之间。营业利润率预计将在38%到40%之间。

This concludes my financial presentation. Now let me turn to our key messages. I will start by making some comments on our second quarter 23 and third quarter 23 profitability.

这里是我关于财务报告的总结。现在让我转向我们的核心信息。我将首先对我们二季度2023年和三季度2023年的盈利能力做一些评论。

Compared to first quarter, our second quarter gross margin decreased by 220 basis points sequentially to 54.1%, primarily due to a lower capacity utilization. Compared to our second quarter guidance, our actual gross margin slightly exceeded the high end of the range, provided three months ago, mainly due to more stringent cost control efforts and a slightly more favorable foreign exchange rates.

与第一季度相比，我们的第二季度毛利率出现了连续下降，降幅为220个基点，达到54.1%。主要原因是产能利用率下降。与我们在三个月前提供的第二季度指导相比，我们实际的毛利率略高于范围的上限，这主要归功于更加严格的成本控制措施和略微更为有利的外汇汇率。

We have just guided our third quarter gross margin to decline by 1.6% to 52.5% at the midpoint, primarily as the higher level of capacity utilization rate is offset by 2-3% points margin dilution from the initial ramp up of our 3-millimeter technology.

我们刚刚指导第三季度毛利率下降1.6%，中点为52.5%，主要原因是产能利用率的提高被我们3毫米技术的初期推出所带来的2-3个百分点的利润稀释所抵消。

Moving ahead to the fourth quarter, we expect the continuous steep ramp up of our 3-millimeter to dilute our fourth quarter gross margin by about 3-4 percentage points. In 2023, our gross margin faces challenges from lower capacity utilization due to semiconductors and the recurrence of the increased capacity. The ramp up of N3 oversees fab expansion and inflationary costs, including higher utility costs in Taiwan.

在进入第四季度时，我们预计我们3毫米产品的持续快速增长将使我们的第四季度毛利率下降约3-4个百分点。在2023年，我们的毛利率面临着来自半导体产能利用率降低以及增加产能的重复出现的挑战。N3超前的生产线扩张和通胀成本，包括台湾的较高公共事业费用，将对我们的毛利率产生影响。

To manage our profitability in 2023, we will work diligently on internal cost improvement efforts while continuing to sell our value. While we face near-term challenges, we continue to forecast a long-term gross margin of 53% and higher is achievable.

为了管理我们在2023年的盈利能力，我们将努力在内部进行成本改善工作，同时继续销售我们的价值。尽管我们面临着近期的挑战，但我们仍然预计能够实现长期的毛利率达到53%甚至更高。

Next, let me talk about our 2023 capital budget and depreciation. Every year, our KPACs is spent in anticipation of the growth that will follow in future years. Given the near-term uncertainties, we continue to manage our business prudently and tighten up our capital spending where appropriate. We now expect our 2023 capital budget to be towards the lower end of a range of between $32 and $36 billion. Our depreciation expense is now expected to increase by mid-20s, year over year in 2023, mainly as we ramp our 3-nanometer technologies.

接下来，让我谈谈我们2023年的资本预算和折旧。每年，我们的KPACs都是为了预期未来几年的增长而支出的。鉴于短期的不确定性，我们继续审慎管理业务，并在适当的情况下收紧资本支出。我们现在预计2023年的资本预算将处于320亿到360亿美元的较低端。我们预计2023年的折旧费用将会以20%左右的年增长率增加，主要是因为我们推出3纳米技术。

Despite near-term inventory cycle, our commitment to support customer's structural growth remains unchanged and our disciplined KPACs and capacity planning remains based on the long-term market domain profile. We will continue to work closely with our customers to plan our long-term capacity and invest in leading-edge specialty and advanced packaging technologies to support their growth while delivering profitable growth to our shareholders.

尽管存在短期库存周期问题，我们依然坚定支持客户结构性增长的承诺不变，我们始终保持纪律严谨的资本支出计划和基于长期市场领域概况的产能规划。我们将继续与客户密切合作，规划我们的长期产能，并投资领先的特殊和先进封装技术，以支持他们的增长同时为我们的股东带来盈利增长。

Now let me make a few comments on our cash-dividend distribution policy. The objectives of TSNC's capital management are to fund the company's growth organically, generate good profitability, preserve financial flexibility, and distribute a sustainable and steadily increasing cash-dividend to shareholders. As a result of our rigorous capital management, in May, TSNC Board of Directors approved the distribution of a 3-NT per share cash-dividend for the first quarter of 2023, up from 2.75 NT previously. This will become the new minimum quarterly dividend level going forward. First quarter 23 cash-dividend will be distributed in October 2023. For 2023, TSNC shareholders will receive a total of 11.25 NT per share dividend and at least 12 NT per share cash-dividend for 2024. Going forward, as our capital intensity begins to decline in the next several years, the focus of our cash-dividend policy is expected to shift from a sustainable to a steadily increasing cash-dividend per share in the next few years.

现在让我对我们的现金股息分配政策做一些评论。TSNC资本管理的目标是通过有机增长为公司提供资金，实现良好的盈利能力，保持财务灵活性，并向股东分配可持续且稳步增长的现金股息。由于我们严格的资本管理，TSNC董事会在2023年5月批准了2023年第一季度每股3新台币的现金股息分配，比以前的2.75新台币有所增加。这将成为未来最低的季度红利水平。2023年第一季度的现金股息将于2023年10月分配。2023年，TSNC股东将获得每股总计11.25新台币的股息，并至少获得2024年每股12新台币的现金股息。将来，随着我们的资本密集度在未来几年开始下降，我们的现金股息政策的重点预计将从可持续性转向每股稳步增长的现金股息。

Now let me turn the microphone over to C.C. Thank you, window. Good afternoon, everyone. First, let me start with our near-term demand and inventory. We concluded our second quarter with revenue of 15.7 billion USD in line with our guidance in USD terms. Our business in the second quarter was impacted by the overall global economic conditions which dampened the market demand and customers' ongoing inventory adjustment.

现在让我将话筒交给C.C.，谢谢，窗口。大家下午好。首先，让我从我们的近期需求和库存开始讲。按照我们的美元预期，我们第二季度的收入达到了157亿美元。在第二季度，我们的业务受到了整体全球经济状况的影响，这抑制了市场需求和客户持续的库存调整。尽量使文字易读。

Moving into third quarter 2023, while we have recently observed an increase in the air-related demand, it is not enough to offset the overall security of our business. We expect our business in the third quarter to be supported by the strong ramp of our 3-ne continue to hold true. However, due to persistent weaker overall macro-economic conditions, slower than expected demand recovery in China, and overall softer in market demand conditions, customers are more cautious and intend to further control their inventory into 4Q23.

进入2023年第三季度，虽然我们最近观察到了航空需求的增加，但这还不足以抵消我们业务的整体安全性。我们预计第三季度的业务将得到我们3-NE强劲增长的支持，这一点继续保持不变。然而，由于持续疲软的宏观经济状况、中国需求恢复较慢以及市场需求状况总体较软，客户更加谨慎，并打算进一步控制他们在2023年第四季度的库存。

Thus, while we maintain our forecast for the 2023 semiconductor market, a security memory to decline missing digit year over year, we now expect the boundary industry to decline mid-tins in our 4-year 2023 revenue to decline around 10% in US dollar term. With such inventory control, we also forecast the 5-year semiconductor inventory to exit 4Q23 at a healthier and lower level as compared to our expectation three months ago.

因此，尽管我们对2023年的半导体市场保持预测，认为安全存储器将年复一年下降一个数字，但我们现在预计边界产业的收入将在我们的4年期内下降约10%（以美元计）。通过这样的库存控制，我们还预测，在与三个月前的预期相比，5年期半导体库存将在2023年第四季度达到一个更健康和更低的水平。

Next, let me talk about the HPC and TSMC's long-term growth outlook. As we have said before, the massive structurally increase in demand for computation and being by the industry megatrend of 5G and HPC continues to drive greater need for performance and energy efficient computing, which requires use of leading-edge technologies. These megatrend are expected to fill TSMC's long-term growth.

接下来，让我谈一谈高性能计算（HPC）和台积电（TSMC）的长期增长前景。正如我们之前所说，计算需求的急剧结构性增长以及5G和HPC行业巨大趋势的推动, 继续推动着对性能和能源效率高的计算的需求增加，这就需要运用领先的技术。这些巨大趋势预计将填满台积电的长期增长空间。

Even with a more challenging 2023, our revenue remains well untried to grow between 15 and 20 Kegar over the next several years in US dollar terms, which is a target we communicated back in January 2022 in Western Conference.

尽管2023年的情况更具挑战性，但我们的收入在未来几年内以美元计算仍有望以15%到20%的速度增长。这是我们在2022年1月的西方会议上传达的目标。

The recent increase in AI-related demand is the directionally positive for TSMC. Generative AI requires higher computing power than in the connect bandwidth, which drive increasing semiconductor content, whether using CPUs, GPUs or AI accelerator and related ACK4 AI and machine learning. The commonality is that it requires use of leading-edge technology and a strong function design ecosystem. These are all TSMC's strengths.

最近人工智能需求的增加对于台积电来说是有积极方向的。生成式人工智能需要比连接带宽更高的计算能力，这推动了半导体内容的增加，无论是使用CPU、GPU还是人工智能加速器和相关的ACK4人工智能和机器学习。共同点是需要运用尖端技术和强大的功能设计生态系统。而这正是台积电的优势所在。

Today, several AI processor demand, which we define as CPUs, GPUs and AI accelerators that are performing training and inference functions, accounts for approximately 6% of TSMC's total revenue. We forecasted this to grow at close to 50% Kegar in the next five years and increased through 13% of our revenue.

如今，AI处理器的需求日益增长，我们定义其为CPU、GPU和执行训练及推理功能的AI加速器，其总收入约占台积电总收入的6%。我们预计在未来五年内，这一比例将以接近50%的年均增长率增长，并占据我们收入的13%。

The accessible need for energy efficient computation is starting from data centers and we expect it will be proliferated to edge in end devices of time, which will offer long-term opportunities. We have already embedded a certain assumption for AI demand into our long-term capacity and course forecast.

易于使用的能源高效计算的需求起步于数据中心，我们预计它将普及到时代的边缘终端设备中，这将提供长期的机会。对于人工智能需求，我们已经在我们的长期能力和课程预测中嵌入了一定的假设。

Our HPC platform is expected to be the main engine and that is the incremental contributor to TSMC's long-term course in the next several years. While the quantification of the total addressful opportunity is still ongoing, generative AI and large-length model only reinforce the already strong condition we have in the structural remake of train to drive TSMC's long-term course and we will close it and monitor the development for further potential upside.

我们的高性能计算平台预计将成为台积电未来几年长期发展的主要引擎，也是增量贡献者。虽然我们对总体潜在机会的量化仍在进行中，但生成式人工智能和大型模型进一步加强了我们在重塑训练驱动台积电长期发展方面的强势地位，我们将加以整合并密切监控其发展，以获取更多的潜在增长机会。

Now let me talk about our N3 and N3E stages. Our 3 nanometer technology is the most advanced semiconductor technology in both PPA and transistor technology. N3 is already involved in the whole production with good yield. We are seeing robust demand for N3 and the expected strong ramble of N3 in the second half of this year supported by both HPC and smart phone applications.

现在让我来谈谈我们的N3和N3E阶段。我们的3纳米技术是PPA和晶体管技术中最先进的半导体技术。N3已经在整个生产过程中被广泛应用，并且产量良好。我们看到对N3的需求强劲，预计下半年N3将在高性能计算和智能手机应用的支持下得到强劲的增长。

N3 is expected to continue to contribute a single-digit percentage of our total wave remaining in 2023. N3E further extends our N3 family with enhanced performance, power and yield and provides complete platform support for both HPC and smart phone applications. N3E has passed the qualification and achieved performance in yield target and will start rolling production in the fourth quarter of this year.

预计到2023年，N3将继续为我们总计波量的个位数贡献。N3E以增强的性能、功耗和产量为我们的N3系列增添了新的一员，并为高性能计算和智能手机应用提供了完整的平台支持。N3E已经通过了资格认证，并在产量目标上实现了优异性能，将于今年第四季度开始量产。

With our continuous enhancement of 3 nanometer process technologies, we expect strong multi-year demand from our customers and our confidence that our 3 nanometer family will be another large and long-lasting node for TSMC.

随着我们对3纳米工艺技术的不断提升，我们预计将获得来自客户的强大的多年需求，同时我们对我们的3纳米系列将成为台积电另一个大型且持久的节点的信心也十分坚定。

Finally, I'll talk about our N2 stages. Our N2 technology development is progressing well and I'm trying to avoid production in 2025. Our N2 will adopt N2's structure to provide our customers with the best performance, cost and technology maturity.

最后，我将谈谈我们的N2阶段。我们的N2技术开发进展顺利，我尽力避免在2025年投入生产。我们的N2将采用N2的结构，为我们的客户提供最佳性能、成本和技术成熟度。

Our N2 technology has demonstrated excellent power efficiency and our N2 will deliver full-known performance and power benefits to address the increasing need for energy-efficient computing. As part of N2 technology platform, we also develop N2 with the backside power rail solution, which is best suited for HPC applications.

我们的N2技术展示出卓越的能量效率，而且我们的N2将为满足对节能计算需求越来越高的问题提供全面的性能和能量优势。作为N2技术平台的一部分，我们还开发了具有背面电源轨道解决方案的N2，这非常适合高性能计算应用。

Backside power rail will provide 10 to 12% additional speed gain and 10 to 15% large-density boost on top of the baseline technology. We are targeting backside power rail to be available in the second half of 2025 to customers, which is for production in 2026.

背侧电源线将为基线技术提供10至12%的额外速度提升和10至15%的大密度增益。我们的目标是在2025年下半年向客户提供背侧电源线，以便在2026年进行生产。

We are observing a high level of customer interest and engagement at N2 from both HPC and smartphone applications. Our two nanometer technology will be the most advanced semiconductor technology in the industry in both density and energy efficiency when it is introduced and to further extend our technology leadership while into the future.

我们正在观察到来自高性能计算和智能手机应用方面的客户兴趣和参与度的高水平。当我们推出我们的两纳米技术时，它将成为行业内在密度和能效方面最先进的半导体技术，并进一步延伸我们的技术领先地位，迈向未来。

This concludes my prepared remarks and I'll let me turn the microphone over to Mark. Thank you, C.C. And good afternoon, everyone.

这是我准备好的发言，我现在把话筒交给马克。谢谢你，C.C。大家下午好。

Today, I want to talk about TSMC's global manufacturing footprint status update. TSMC's mission is to be the trusted technology and capacity provider of the global logic I see industry for years to come. Our strategy is to expand our global manufacturing footprint to increase customer trust and to expand our future growth potential and to reach for more global talents.

今天，我想讨论一下台积电（TSMC）全球制造布局的最新情况。台积电的使命是成为未来数年全球逻辑芯片行业的值得信赖的技术和产能供应商。我们的战略是扩大全球制造布局，以增加客户的信任，并扩大我们未来的增长潜力，争取更多的全球人才。

Our overseas decisions are based on our customers' needs and the necessary level of government support. That is to maximize the value of our shareholders and to fulfill our fiduciary duty.

我们在海外的决策基于我们客户的需求以及必要的政府支持水平。这是为了最大化股东的价值并履行我们的受托责任。

In Arizona, we are building a first FAP to provide U.S. most advanced semiconductor technology in mass production to support the needs for U.S. semiconductor infrastructure.

在亚利桑那州，我们正在建设第一个“先进封装计划(FAP)”，以大规模生产美国最先进的半导体技术，以支持美国半导体基础设施的需求。

Our FAP in Arizona started construction in April 2021 with an aggressive schedule. We are now entering a critical phase of handling and installing the most advanced and dedicated equipment. However, we are encountering certain challenges as there is an insufficient amount of skill workers with those specialized expertise required for equipment installation in a semiconductor-grade facility. While we are working on to improve the situation, including sending experienced technicians from Taiwan to train the local skill workers for a short period of time, we expect the production schedule of N4 process technology to be pushed out to 2025.

我们在亚利桑那州的厂房于2021年4月开始施工，计划进度紧凑。现在我们进入一个关键阶段，需要处理和安装最先进的专用设备。然而，我们面临一些挑战，因为能够安装半导体级设备所需的专业技术工人数量不足。尽管我们正在努力改善这种情况，包括派遣来自台湾的经验丰富的技术人员来短期培训当地技术工人，但我们预计N4工艺技术的生产计划将推迟到2025年。

In Japan, we are building a specialty technology factory which will utilize 12, 16, and 22, 28 process technologies. Volume production is on track for late 2024.

在日本，我们正在建设一家专业技术工厂，将使用12、16和22、28工艺技术。量产计划将于2024年末开始。

In Europe, we are engaging with customers and partners to evaluate building a specialty FAP in Germany focusing on automotive-specific technologies based on the demand from our customers and the level of government support.

在欧洲，我们正在与客户和合作伙伴合作，评估在德国建设一个专业的FAP（完整车辆制造过程）工厂，重点关注汽车专用技术，这取决于我们客户的需求以及政府的支持程度。

In China, we are expanding 28 nanometers in Nanjing as we planned to support our customers in China, and we continue to follow all rules and regulations fully.

在中国，我们正在按计划在南京扩大28纳米技术的发展，以支持我们在中国的客户，并且我们会全面遵守所有规章制度。

At the same time, we continue to invest in Taiwan and to expand our capacity to support our customers' growth.

同时，我们继续对台湾进行投资，并扩大我们的能力以支持客户的增长。

From a cost perspective, the initial cost of overseas FAP are higher than TSMC's FAP in Taiwan due to one, the smaller FAF scale, two, higher costs throughout the supply chain, and three, the early stage of semiconductor ecosystem on those overseas sites as compared to a matured economic ecosystem in Taiwan.

从成本角度来看，由于以下三个原因，海外前瞻授权生产（FAP）的初始成本比台湾的台积电（TSMC）的前瞻授权生产成本更高：一，规模较小；二，供应链上的成本较高；三，与台湾成熟的经济生态系统相比，海外的半导体生态系统处于早期阶段。

In our recent meetings with senior government officials in the US, Japan, and Europe, we discussed our plans to expand our global manufacturing footprint to them. We also emphasize one of our major responsibilities is to manage and minimize the cost gap, to maximize return for our shareholders. Those discussions went very well. All sides understand the critical and integral role TSMC plays in the semiconductor industry, and we appreciate all the government's ongoing support in working with TSMC to help narrow down the cost gap. We will continue to work closely with all the governments to secure the further support.

在我们最近与美国、日本和欧洲的高级政府官员的会议中，我们讨论了将我们的全球制造业扩大到这些地区的计划。我们还强调我们的主要责任之一是管理和最小化成本差距，以实现股东的最大回报。这些讨论非常顺利。各方都了解到TSMC在半导体行业中扮演的关键和重要角色，并且我们感谢各国政府在与TSMC合作缩小成本差距方面一直以来的支持。我们将继续与所有政府密切合作，以确保进一步的支持。

Our pricing will also remain strategic to reflect our value, which includes the value of geographic flexibility. At the same time, we will leverage our fundamental competitive advantage of manufacturing technology leadership, large volume, and economies of scale to continuously drive our costs down. By taking such actions, TSMC will have the ability to absorb the higher costs of overseas fab, while remaining the most efficient and cost-effective manufacturer, no matter where we operate. Thus, even as we expand our capacity overseas, TSMC's long-term growth margin of 53% and higher and sustainable ROE of greater than 25% is achievable, and we will continue to maximize the value for our shareholders. This concludes our key messages. Thank you for your attention.

我们的定价策略将继续注重反映我们的价值，包括地理灵活性的价值。同时，我们将发挥我们在制造技术领导、大规模生产和规模经济方面的竞争优势，不断降低成本。通过采取这些措施，即使在海外工厂成本较高的情况下，TSMC仍将保持最高效和最具成本效益的制造商地位，无论在哪里运营。因此，即使我们在海外扩大产能，TSMC长期的增长率将可达到53%以上，可持续的ROE将超过25%，我们将继续最大化为股东创造价值。以上是我们的主要信息。感谢您的关注。

Thank you, Chairman. This concludes our prepared statements. Before we start the Q&A session, I would like to remind everybody to please limit your questions to two at a time, to allow all the participants an opportunity to ask their questions. Should you wish to raise your question in Chinese, I will translate it to English before our management answers your question. For those of you on the call, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star, then one on your telephone keypad now. If at any time you would like to remove yourself from the questioning queue, please press star two. Now, let's begin the Q&A session.

谢谢主席。这结束了我们的准备声明。在我们开始问答环节之前，我想提醒大家，请将您的问题限制在两个问题一次，以便所有参与者都有机会提问。如果您希望用中文提问，我将在我们管理层回答您的问题之前将其翻译为英语。对于在电话会议上的您，如果您想提问，请现在按下星号，然后按下电话键盘上的数字键1。如果您想随时退出提问队列，请按星号2。现在，让我们开始问答环节。

Operator, can we please proceed with the first caller on the line?

操作员，请我们可以继续处理第一个来电者吗？

The first one, there are questions. Go to Hanihalan from Japan. Go ahead, please.

第一个问题，有问题。请去日本的Hanihalan。请继续，谢谢。

Yeah, thank you. Good afternoon, and thanks for a lot of clarity on the AI-related exposure. My first question is on the AI front. A lot of Deissompeers customers have been talking about capacity shortage and having to kind of queue up for capacity for AI accelerators, including GPUs and APEX.

是的，谢谢你。下午好，并感谢你对与人工智能相关的风险揭示的详细说明。我第一个问题是关于人工智能领域的。很多Deissompeers的客户都在谈论容量短缺，并且不得不排队等待人工智能加速器，包括GPU和APEX的容量。

Could the TSMC talk a little bit about what the TSMC is doing on the capacity side, especially on the advanced packaging, but also on other areas? And when do you expect to get back to some degree of demand and supply balance for these AI accelerators? Is it going to be only sometime next year, or do you think it could happen quicker based on what you see on demand from your customers and the capacity plan?

台积电(TSMC)可以简单介绍一下在产能方面的情况，尤其是在先进封装技术以及其他领域的进展吗？你们预计何时能够实现人工智能加速器的需求和供应平衡？这会在明年某个时候实现，还是根据客户需求和产能计划，你们认为可能更快实现呢？

Okay, go cool. Thank you. Let me try to please allow me to summarize your first question.

好的，去酷一点。谢谢你。请允许我试着概括你的第一个问题。

So first question from Gokko is that he notes that we are, customers are seeing strong demand from AI-related, but they're facing capacity tightness or shortage. So his question is, what are we doing in terms of the capacity side? Maybe both in terms of the advanced packaging, as well as the logic.

首先来自Gokko的问题是，他注意到我们，客户们正在面临人工智能相关产品的强劲需求，但同时也面临产能紧缺或不足的问题。因此，他的问题是，我们在产能方面都采取了哪些措施？无论是在先进封装还是逻辑方面。

And then when do we see the demand supply imbalance returning to a better, healthier balance level? Is it sometime next year? Is that correct, roughly Gokko? Yeah, thank you.

那么，我们何时可以看到供需失衡回归到更好、更健康的平衡水平呢？大概是明年的某个时候吗？是这样的，对吗，很粗略的说法，Gokko？是的，谢谢。

Okay, Koko, this is easy way. Let me answer your question. For the AI, right now we see a very strong demand, yes. For the front-game part, we don't have any problem to support, but for the back-end, the advanced packaging side, especially for the cohorts, we do have some very tight capacity to very hard to fulfill 100% of what customers need it. So we are working with customers for the short term to help them to fulfill the demand, but we are increasing our capacity as quickly as possible. And we expect that these tightness will be released next year, probably toward the end of next year, but in between, we're still working closely with our customers to support their growth.

好的，Koko，这很简单。让我回答你的问题。对于人工智能（AI），现在我们看到有很强的需求。对于前端游戏部分，我们没有任何支持上的问题，但对于后端高级封装方面，特别是对于用户群，我们确实有一些非常紧张的能力难以满足客户需求的问题。因此我们正在与客户合作，以帮助他们在短期内满足需求，但我们正在尽快增加我们的能力。我们预计这种紧张状况将在明年释放，可能是明年底，但在此之间，我们仍将与客户紧密合作，支持他们的发展。

Okay, let me see, maybe one follow-up. Could you let us know what kind of capacity expansion is it like, how much capacity are expanding on the cohort side, any kind of quantity of what kind of capacity you are adding?

好的，让我看看，或许还有一个后续问题。您能告诉我们扩展的容量类型是什么样的吗？在同期方面，您正在扩充多少容量？您正在增加的容量类型的数量是否能告诉我们？

Okay, so Gokko, just an additional to the first question, how much capacity are we going to increase in terms of co-ass? Well, let me give you, you know, I want to give you the exit number, but let me give you a roughly appropriate 2x of the capacity what we added. Okay, Gokko. Gokko? Okay, Gokko, are you there? If not operator, maybe we move on to the next participant. Gokko, are you there? Okay, I think there was a disconnect, disconnected. All right, let's move on to the next caller participant, please.

好的，所以 Gokko，关于第一个问题的补充，我们打算增加多少合作军事行动的能力？好吧，让我给你个数字，但是我给你一个大致的两倍的能力增长量。好的，Gokko。Gokko？好的，Gokko，你在吗？如果没有操作员的话，也许我们可以继续下一个参与者。Gokko，你在吗？好的，我觉得可能是断线了。好的，让我们继续下一个呼叫参与者，请。

Next one to ask questions, Bruce, will some go ahead, please?

请下一个提问问题的人出来，布鲁斯，请你上前。

Okay, thank you for taking my question. I still want to know about, you know, the KSM team intended 15 to 20% of the Kiga when we cut this year's revenue to minus 10%. That's all we use at 15% of the Kiga to 2026. That's inspired by like 25 plus percent resonant from the coming two years, which means that the overall same growth is going to increase like a lot for the next two to years.

好的，谢谢你回答我的问题。我仍然想知道，你知道的，KSM团队打算将今年的收入削减到负10%时，保留Kiga的15到20％。我们在2026年之前只使用15％的Kiga。这受到了未来两年超过25％的同比增长的启发，这意味着整体同比增长在接下来的两年内会大幅增加。

And you just mentioned that the AI only accounts for 6% with low things potentially. That is not big enough to get back to the trend. So what is the underlying growth you have? What the growth of any in the coming years and what are the key assumptions for the growth for each second?

你刚刚提到人工智能只占很小比例，可能存在低迷的情况。这个比例不足以让趋势回升。那么你们所依靠的潜在增长又是什么？未来几年的增长预期如何？对于每一秒的增长，关键的假设是什么？

Okay, Bruce, let me try to summarize your first question. So, Bruce's first question is on our long-term growth Kiga, which we have said is to be between 15 to 20% from 21 to 26 Kiga period. So, Bruce's question this year, you know, CC just said we will decline around 10%. In his calculation, I think he's saying, well, this implies you should grow 25% the next several years, which of course this is a Kiga, but nonetheless. And so, Bruce's question is that therefore, if that's the type of growth, then shouldn't that imply a much higher growth level for the overall semiconductor excluding memory industry? I think that is your question, Bruce. Am I correct? Yes, one of the key assumptions for this question.

好的，布鲁斯，让我来试着总结一下你的第一个问题。所以布鲁斯的第一个问题是关于我们的长期增长目标，Kiga，我们曾说过从21年到26年的Kiga期间将保持在15%到20%之间。所以，布鲁斯今年的问题是，你知道的，CC刚刚说我们的增长将在10%左右下降。在他的计算中，我想他是在说，这意味着您未来几年应该增长25%，尽管这是一个Kiga，但仍然如此。所以，布鲁斯的问题是，如果这是这种增长水平，那么不应该意味着整个半导体行业（不包括存储器）的增长水平更高吗？我想这就是你的问题，布鲁斯。我理解得对吗？是的，这个问题的一个关键假设。

Okay, let me let me handle this question. Your rationale is correct. However, some of the factor may not be totally included. For one thing in your model that the customer's growth margin is 60% a plus, I don't think that we would be standing the average customer's growth margin, and maybe some specific ones. However, the other one is the market share. The market share factor, you assume the constant. That is not one thing that could be different than in your formula. So, but the semiconductor grows right now, we are forecasting 4 to 5%. It may increase, but definitely as you said, it won't increase to 10%, but those longer term semiconductor scooting memory growth is still yet to be evaluated. Did I answer your question?

好的，让我来处理这个问题。你的理论是正确的，然而有些因素可能没有完全被考虑进去。首先是你的模型中顾客的增长利润率是60%增加，我认为我们不能把平均顾客的增长利润率作为标准，可能会有一些特定情况。然而，市场份额是另一个因素。你假设市场份额是固定的，这在你的公式中是不可变的。但是，半导体目前正在增长，我们预测增长率为4%到5%。它可能会增加，但肯定不会增加到10%，但是长期的半导体以及存储器增长还有待评估。我回答了你的问题吗？

Yes, the reason I do that is I'm assuming that you have like family and market share in the events mode. And also that the growth is mostly coming from the the events node, which your customer's growth margin is supposed to be higher. So, I still think that the gap is wide enough. That's what I'm wondering, whether I miss anything which might be big enough to move from the needle that might invest in the management might drink in some cargo.

是的，我这样做的原因是我假设你在活动模式下有家庭和市场份额。而且，主要的增长主要来自于事件节点，你的客户增长边际应该更高。因此，我仍然认为这个差距足够大。这就是我想知道的，是否有任何可能足够大以至于会导致管理层投资或购买某些货物的遗漏。

I don't, this is a factor as far as the market share value, you might not totally included all the factors. That's what I'm my perspective, but I cannot dig into the numerical comparison at this point.

就市场份额价值而言，我不这样认为，你可能没有完全考虑到所有的因素。这是我的观点，但目前我无法深入进行数字比较。

What I mean, the market share is not just the advanced leading edge technologies, but also the share of the outsourcing. So, maybe Bruce, if I summarize again, TSMC's growth is driven by both the underlying structural mega trends, but also by our technology leadership and differentiation. So, R. Kager is a combination of those two factors.

我的意思是，市场份额不仅仅是高端领先技术的份额，也包括外包的份额。所以，也许布鲁斯，如果我再总结一下，台积电的增长既受到基本结构巨大趋势的推动，也受到我们技术领先和差异化的影响。所以，R·卡格尔是这两个因素的结合体。

Hi, thank you. Do you have any? Yeah, sorry. Yes, my next question is regarding to the guidance changes. You know, the previous Biden was the four year was, you know, low to mission growth between knowledge of all like 10% decline. So, the gap is like 5% of the total revenue, which is like, of course, large for intent of the revenue.

你好，谢谢。你有吗？是的，抱歉。是的，我的下一个问题是关于指导变更的。你知道，之前拜登在四年内，目标增长的速度相对较低，约为10%的下降。所以，这个差距大约占总收入的5%，当然对于收入意图来说是相当大的。

Well, when I people are dealing highly concentrated in the second half of what was called it, can you give us like what is, what are the changes in terms of this shortfall? You know, where are the weaknesses come from?

嗯，当我看到人们在所谓的后半段高度集中处理问题时，您能告诉我们有哪些变化导致了这种不足吗？您知道，这些弱点究竟出自何处？

Okay, so, Bruce's second question is looking at our 2023 full year guidance. He knows this last time, we had said low to mid-single-digit decline. This time we have guided to around 10%. So, his question is the delta of this seems to be all, a lot of it also in the fourth quarter. So, what is there any particular segment or market that is driving this? And what are the factors behind this? Is that correct, Bruce?

好的，所以，布鲁斯的第二个问题关注我们2023年全年的指引。他知道上次我们说过将会有一个低到中位数的单位数下降。而这一次，我们指引为大约10%。所以，他的问题是其中的差别似乎主要出现在第四季度。那么，是哪个特定的市场或领域驱动了这个变化？背后的原因是什么？布鲁斯，我这样理解对吗？

Yes, thank you.

是的，谢谢你。

Okay, okay, Bruce, let me answer the question. Yes, we did see something different. The first, the record is weaker than what we thought. You know, three months ago, we probably, probably more optimistic, but now, it's not. Also, that is, you know, for example, China economies of recovery is actually also weaker than what we thought. And so, the end market demand actually did not grow as we expected. So, put all together, even we have a very good AI processes demand is still not enough to offset all those kinds of a macro impact. So, now we expected that the whole year, what becomes a minus temperature, that's what we thought. And in terms of by particular segment or the particular market, it's almost, well, thank you. You were asking me the question. It's almost an impact. Yeah, it's overall, or, you know, market segment is being impacted because of its combination of the macroeconomics. So, can we conclude that other than AI, almost every application see some weak on the second half?

好的，好的，布鲁斯，让我回答这个问题。是的，我们确实看到了一些不同的东西。首先，数据比我们预想的要弱。你知道，三个月前，我们可能更加乐观，但现在不是了。另外，就是，例如中国经济的复苏实际上也比我们预想的要弱。因此，最终市场需求的增长并不如我们预期的那样。所以，总而言之，即使我们拥有很好的人工智能流程需求，仍然不足以抵消所有这些宏观影响。所以，现在我们预计整年的情况将变成负增长，这是我们的想法。就特定领域或特定市场而言，几乎可以说是受到了影响。是的，整体上，或者说，几乎每个应用都在下半年出现了一些疲软，这是受到宏观经济因素的综合影响。所以，我们可以得出结论，除了人工智能之外，几乎每个应用都在第二个季度遇到了一些困难。

You got it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Bruce. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?

没问题，谢谢你。好的，谢谢你，布鲁斯。接线员，请问我们可以继续下一个参与者了吗？

Next one to ask question is, go-go, Hari Harlan from Japanese. Go, cool. You're back. Okay. Yeah, sorry about that. So, next question, he wanted to ask about the S&P management view on the current inventory cycle. It looked like this cycle is much taking it much longer to get through the down cycle compared to 19 and 2015.

下一个要提问的人是来自日本的Hari Harlan。走，酷。你回来了。好的。对不起，刚才发生了些事。所以下一个问题，他想问关于S&P公司对当前库存周期的看法。看起来这个周期相比于2019年和2015年，更需要更长时间才能度过低谷期。

When do you think we kind of bottom out? And do you feel that the recovery in next year is going to be a strong recovery? Or you think it's going to be a more gradual recovery? What are the kind of plans that you're putting in place as we think about next year's recovery once the inventory situation back to like this? Thank you.

你认为我们何时会触底呢？你觉得明年的复苏会是强劲的还是比较渐进的？一旦库存状况变得如此，请问您正在制定哪些计划来应对明年的复苏呢？谢谢。

Okay. So, go-cool. Second question is about the inventory correction cycle. He notes this cycle seems to be taking much longer to get through as compared to 2019 or and 2015.

好的，那么，（我们）开始吧。第二个问题是关于库存纠正周期。他指出与2019年或2015年相比，这个周期似乎需要更长的时间才能度过。

So, his second question is, when do we think this cycle can bottom out? What will, you know, 2024 next year look like? Do we expect a strong recovery and what factors are we looking at? Is that correct?

所以，他的第二个问题是，我们认为这个周期什么时候能触底？2024年明年会是什么样子？我们预计强劲的复苏吗？我们关注哪些因素？这样说对吗？

Go-cool. Yes. Thanks. Thank you.

很酷。是的。谢谢。非常感谢。

Okay. Go-cool. This is a good question. Let me answer it in a short one sentence. It's all about the maker. I mean, that I just said, the maker economics is not so, is become weaker than we thought. In fact, hard inflation and interest rate impact and demand in all market segments in every region in the world. As we said, under such situation, our customers are more cautious in their inventory control in the second half of this year. So, while we expect the fabulous semiconductor industry, their inventory to be cleaner, enhance, here, exceeding existing this year, but much closer to the seasonal level. But our expectation for them, they will continue to manage their inventory. And 2024, it still depends on the maker situation.

好的，很酷。这是一个好问题。让我用一个简短的句子回答它。这完全取决于制造商。我的意思是，我刚才说的，制造商的经济情况并不像我们想象的那样强劲。实际上，全球每个地区的通胀和利率对所有市场细分和需求产生了影响。正如我们所说，在这种情况下，我们的客户在今年下半年更加谨慎地控制库存。因此，尽管我们预计半导体行业的库存将变得更加整洁、增强，超过今年的现有水平，但更接近季节性水平。但我们对他们的预期是，他们将继续管理他们的库存。而2024年，它仍然取决于制造商的情况。

Go-cool. Okay. So, that sounds like you're still expecting at least early part of next year to still be a little bit challenging, similar to what it is looking like right now. Is that fair to say? We'll give you our comment. Go-cool. We'll give you our comment next time. For 2024. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Go-cool. Operator, can you move on to the next participant, please?

哈利：好的。所以，听起来你似乎仍然预计明年初仍会面临一些挑战，与现在的情况类似。这样说合适吗？我们会向你提供意见的。Go-cool。我们会在下次给予你意见。关于2024年的。好的。谢谢。谢谢。Go-cool。操作员，能请你转到下一个参与者吗？

Next one, we have Charlie John from Walk-in-Sandy.

接下来，我们有来自Walk-in-Sandy的Charlie John。

Hey, gentlemen. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question.

嗨，先生们。下午好。感谢您们回答我的问题。

So, my first question is about the overseas FAB cost, seems to get higher. So, would the efficiency consider for the depth of your pricing to absorb the increased cost? And also, mentioned mentioned that you're doubling or more than doubling your 11th package, given the AI rush order. Would that give you a chance to reprise the bacon foundry service? Because I remember there was a kind of blow company that grows margin average. Would that be a chance to bring that back to the corporate average? Thank you.

所以，我的第一个问题是关于海外晶圆厂成本，似乎越来越高。那么，您的定价是否会考虑效率，以吸收增加的成本呢？并且，您提到了由于人工智能订单的增加，您的11代工艺包装可能将增加一倍甚至更多。这是否会给您重启晶圆厂服务的机会？因为我记得之前有一家公司通过这样做提高了毛利率平均值。这样做会不会有机会将其带回到公司平均值？谢谢。

Okay, Charlie. Charlie's first question is, I guess regarding pricing, two parts or two angles. First on the overseas FAF, given that the costs are higher, would the SMC consider to further adjust our wafer price? And also along similar lines related to advanced packaging, given we are, you know, CC said, doubling roughly the capacity, would we consider to also charge more or higher, given that the returns of the back end are lower? Let me answer the first question first. Yes, the overseas FAF will cost higher, at least for the near future, where their supply ecosystem is not mature yet. And the labor cost is, from our experience, actually, is a little bit higher than we expected. But to answer your question, yes, as we try to get the maximum government subsidy, and we also really look at the how the price value for the overseas geographical flexibilities is all considered. The aim is to, one, to increase our customer trust, make them continue to work with us going forward under the geopolitical concerns. Secondly, is to maximize the shareholders value. To answer your question, the price is strategically yes.

好的，Charlie。Charlie的第一个问题，我猜是关于定价的，有两个部分或两个角度。首先是关于海外先进封装（FAF），考虑到成本较高，SMC是否考虑进一步调整我们的晶圆价格？此外，与此类似，鉴于我们正在近乎翻倍地增加产能，我们是否考虑收取更高的费用，因为后端回报较低？先回答第一个问题。是的，海外FAF的成本会更高，至少在不久的将来如此，因为他们的供应生态系统尚未成熟。根据我们的经验，人工成本实际上比我们预期的要高一些。但是为了回答你的问题，是的，我们会尽力获得最大限度的政府补贴，同时我们也会真正考虑海外地理灵活性的价格价值。目标是：一是增加我们客户的信任，使他们在地缘政治关切下继续与我们合作。二是最大化股东价值。回答你的问题，策略上是肯定的。

All right.

好的。

CC, yes, the second question.

CC，是的，第二个问题。

I think the second question is about the pricing and the course. As I answered the question, we are increasing the capacity in, you know, as soon as possible manner of course, that including actual cost. So in fact, we are working with our customer. And the most important thing for them right now is the supply assurance, is the supply to media demand. So we are working with them. We do everything possible to increase the capacity. And of course, at the same time, we share our value.

我认为第二个问题是关于定价和课程的。就我回答的问题来说，我们正在以尽快的方式增加产能，这当然包括实际成本。所以实际上，我们正在与我们的客户合作。他们目前最关心的是供应的保证，也就是媒体需求的供应。所以我们正在与他们合作。我们尽一切可能增加产能。当然，同时我们也分享我们的价值观。

All right. Thanks.

好的，谢谢。

So may I ask a second question? Is a different topic? Is it okay?

那么，我可以问第二个问题吗？是关于另一个话题的。可以吗？

Sure. You get two questions, so sure.

当然可以。你有两个问题，所以没问题。

Thank you. Thanks, Jeff. So another question is about the AI semi-demand, right? Things are providing, you know, your, your, your contribution growth, growth assumption that is super helpful. But I'm wondering how KSNC can judge the AI demand because right now, if the arms race right now, our customers are very aggressive, booking capacity. So I'm wondering how coming can judge whether those AI semi-demand is for real. And also in terms of breakdown, I'm wondering whether coming to see, see that ACK, the cost and chips, is outgrowing GPU. I think that more important way should be the first part of question, especially investors are concerned with the AI, if I can, well, I think the CPU is already met. So those are kind of questions you know, or mine. Thank you.

谢谢。感谢你，杰夫。另一个问题是关于人工智能半导体需求的，对吧？你提供的事项，也就是你对贡献增长的假设非常有帮助。但是我想知道KSNC如何判断人工智能需求是否是真实存在的。目前如果说存在军备竞赛，我们的客户非常积极地预订产能。所以我想知道来自KSNC的判断是基于什么来判断这些人工智能半导体需求是否是真实存在的。而且在分解问题上，我想知道KSNC是否认为ACK成本和芯片的增长速度超过了GPU。我认为更重要的是第一个问题部分，尤其是投资者们关注人工智能的情况下。如果可以的话，我认为CPU已经满足需求了。这些都是我想了解的问题。谢谢。

Okay. Let me summarize your second question, Charlie. Charlie is on AI demand. He wants to know, you know, how do we judge the demand properly, because customers are very aggressive, but how in his words, how do we know that this demand is real? And then also, how do we see the demand specifically for ASICs as it relates to AI?

好的。让我总结一下你的第二个问题，Charlie。Charlie对AI需求感兴趣。他想知道，我们如何正确判断需求，因为客户非常积极，但他想知道，我们如何确定这种需求是真实存在的？此外，我们如何具体看到与AI相关的ASIC的需求呢？

Okay. You want to answer?

好的。你想要回答吗？

Let me try first.

让我先试试。

Okay. Sure.

好的。当然可以。

This is a very deep question. Of course, we have a model, basically. The short term, the short term frenzy about the AI demand definitely cannot extrapolate for the long term. And neither can we predict the near future, meaning next year, how the sudden demand will continue or will flatten out. However, our model is based on the data center structure. We assume a certain percentage of the data center processor are AI processors. And based on that, we calculate the AI's processor demand. And this model is yet to be fitted to the practical data later on. But in general, I think the trend of a big portion of data center processor will be AI processor is a short thing. And with it, can I buy, can I buy the data center processors in the short term when the K-PACs of the cloud service provider are fixed? Yes, it will. It is. But as for the long term, when the cloud service having the generative AI service revenue, I think they will increase the K-PACs. That should be consistent with the long term AI processor demand. And I mean, the K-PACs will increase because of the generative AI services. Anything more for you?

这是一个非常深入的问题。当然，我们有一个基本的模型。短期内，对于AI需求的短期狂热肯定不能用于长期推断。我们也无法预测未来的近期，也就是明年，突然的需求会如何继续或趋于平稳。然而，我们的模型是基于数据中心结构的。我们假设数据中心处理器的一定比例是AI处理器。基于此，我们计算出AI处理器的需求。这个模型还需要根据实际数据进行适应。总的来说，我认为数据中心处理器中有很大一部分会成为AI处理器是一种短期趋势。那么，在云服务提供商的固定投资额（K-PACs）时，我能否购买数据中心处理器呢？是的，可以。但是从长期来看，当云服务具有生成式AI服务收入时，我认为他们将增加投资额。这应该与长期的AI处理器需求保持一致。还有其他需要解答的问题吗？

And then, Charlie, I think part of Charlie's question is also how do we see ASIC related in AI development? Well, actually, the customer also have a high demand on the ASIC part for the AI application. And as Mark pointed out, a short term sudden increase, you can, the expropriate to be long term. So, but again, let me emphasize that. Those kinds of applications in the AI, be it CPUs, GPUs for AI accelerator or ASIC, they all need leading edge technologies. And they all have one symptom. They are using the very large size, which is TSMC's strength. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Charlie. Thank you. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?

然后，Charlie，我认为Charlie的问题的一部分是关于我们如何看待与人工智能发展相关的ASIC。实际上，客户对于AI应用中的ASIC部分也有很高的需求。正如Mark指出的，短期内的突然增长可能会变得长期化。但再次强调一点，无论是在AI领域中使用的CPU、GPU还是加速器或ASIC，它们都需要领先的技术。它们都有一个共同特点，那就是它们使用了非常大的尺寸，而这正是台积电的优势所在。谢谢。好的，谢谢你，Charlie。谢谢你。操作员，请移至下一位参与者。

Next one to ask questions. Randy Eibren, please. Thank you. I wanted to shift to the profitability, maybe more for Wendell. For, you know, looking at the fourth quarter, you mentioned the three to four points solution from N3. I think that is two to three points in third quarter. Is that what you're suggesting, the directional change, could be a little bit down margin profile, or do you have positive offsets that could keep it more stable? And then a follow up on the margin, where you discuss this a tough year for margins on these factors, like the energy ramp of three. But could you discuss 2024? Do you think we're going into a period of a bit more challenging profitability or UC factors that we could comfortably get back to the 53 and above next year?

请下一个提问的人是Randy Eibren。谢谢。我想谈一谈盈利能力，也许更多是针对温德尔。对于第四季度的情况，你提到了N3的三到四个百分点解决方案。我认为在第三季度是两到三个百分点。你是在暗示有一个变化的方向，可能会略微下降利润率，还是你有一些积极的抵消措施可以使其更加稳定？关于利润率的问题，你谈到了这些因素对利润率构成了挑战。但你能谈一下2024年吗？你认为我们是否进入了一个更具挑战性的盈利能力或UC因素的时期，我们明年是否能轻松地回到53%或以上？

Okay. Thank you, Randy. So, Randy's first question is on gross margin. Fourth quarter, with the N3 dilution of three to four percent, does that mean directionally, fourth quarter margin is sequentially down? Are there any positive offsets? And then for looking to 2024 for the full year, if Wendell can give some comments about 2024 gross margin, will it also be challenging, or do we still feel confident in a 53 percent and higher gross margin? Okay, Randy. Starting from the second half of this year, as we said, we face certain cost challenges, including the ramp of N3, which will dilute about two to three percentage point in third quarter and three to four in the fourth quarter, plus the higher electricity cost. But we're not giving our guidance on the fourth quarter at this moment. We're just spelling out some of the challenges that we're seeing. And of course, we are going to continue to drive down our costs and sell our value to ensure that we will have a good return on the note. That's for this year. For next year, we're seeing, we're not talking about the whole gross margin, but we still see that the N3 will dilute about three to four percentage points of next year's gross margin. And although the U-ray will be better next year, at the same time, the percentage of revenue contributed by N3 will be bigger. So, net net, we also see some dilution from the N3 next year. But the margin, the guidance, will be given now next year.

好的，谢谢你，兰迪。所以，兰迪的第一个问题是关于毛利率的。第四季度，考虑到N3的稀释率为3%至4%，那是否意味着第四季度的毛利率在季度上是下降的？是否有任何积极因素来弥补？接下来，如果温戴尔能就2024年的全年毛利率发表一些意见，那是否也会面临挑战，或者我们仍然对53%及以上的毛利率感到有信心？好的，兰迪。从今年下半年开始，我们面临着一些成本挑战，包括N3的推广，这将在第三季度稀释约2%至3%的毛利率，在第四季度稀释约3%至4%的毛利率，再加上较高的电费。但是我们目前还没有提供第四季度的指导意见。我们只是阐明了我们所面临的一些挑战。当然，我们将继续降低成本并充分展示我们的价值，以确保我们能够得到良好的回报。这是今年的情况。至于明年，我们看到，我们没有讨论整个毛利率，但我们仍然预计N3将稀释明年的毛利率约3%至4%。尽管来自U光的贡献将会更大，但是N3的贡献所占的收入比例也会更高。因此，净净来看，我们也预计明年会有一些来自N3的稀释。但具体的指导意见将在明年给出。

Okay, I can follow up to the first question. I think the last few notes was two to three point dilution in the first year or two of ramp. The factor for it larger is the higher capital intensity or something different with three versus five and seven. It looks like a little bit more dilution. Yeah, the increasing process complexity does add on to the challenges of a newer note. However, the other important factor is that our corporate averages has become higher than before. We used to have 50% gross margin. We're now talking about 53% and higher gross margin.

好的，我可以回答第一个问题。我认为在一两年的采样过程中，最后几个点是二至三点的稀释。导致这种稀释程度增加的因素可能是资本密集度更高，或是三个、五个和七个之间存在一些差异。看起来稀释程度有些增加。是的，不断增加的工艺复杂性确实增加了新产品的挑战。然而，另一个重要因素是我们公司的平均毛利率已经比以前更高。我们过去的毛利率是50％，现在我们谈论的是53％甚至更高的毛利率。

Okay. Okay, and the second question, I want to ask how you're thinking about CAPEX. Just netting a few things, the geographic expansion, the three and the start of two nanometer, the first ramp upper tool move in versus the mixed outlook you're looking at for macro, for a ballpark CAPEX into next year. And if I could maybe within it ask if the Arizona Fab delays, does that push out where you mentioned the low end of guidance, push out some of this year, I could get some lift to next year.

好的。好的，第二个问题，我想问问你对CAPEX的想法。只需要净化一些事情，地理扩张，三个和两纳米的开始，第一个启动上工具移动对混合的宏观展望，明年的整体CAPEX大致是什么水平。如果我可以在其中问一下，亚利桑那Fab的延迟，是否会推迟你提到的指引下限，从而提高今年一些的业绩。

Paragraph 1: Okay, so Randy's second question is on CAPEX. He wants to know, basically focusing on 2024 CAPEX to some of the delays in the Arizona Fab push out CAPEX from this year to next year. As we expand overseas, as we invest in N2, but at the same time as the macro remains uncertain, how does this impact 2024 CAPEX? Yeah, Randy, it push out of fabs, does push out some part of the CAPEX, but that doesn't affect a big part. For 2024, it's too early to talk about the overall CAPEX. However, our CAPEX, as we said before, every year we spent the CAPEX to capture the future growth opportunities. And in the past few years, our CAPEX has risen very fast to capture the megatrend. And going forward, the next few years, when we started harvest those CAPEX investment, we believe the CAPEX will begin to level off in terms of dollar amount. And that will lead to start to lower the capital intensity in the next several years.

好的，所以Randy的第二个问题是关于CAPEX。他想了解的是，基本上聚焦于2024年的CAPEX，一些延迟导致了从今年到明年阿里桑那工厂的CAPEX推迟。随着我们海外扩张，投资于N2，但与此同时，宏观环境仍然不确定，这对2024年的CAPEX产生了怎样的影响？是的，Randy，推迟工厂的确会推迟一部分的CAPEX，但这不会对大部分造成影响。对于2024年，现在谈论整体CAPEX还为时过早。然而，我们的CAPEX，就像我们之前所说的，每年都在为捕捉未来的增长机会而进行投资。在过去几年里，我们的CAPEX增长非常快，以迎接巨变的到来。在未来几年中，当我们开始收获这些CAPEX投资时，我们相信CAPEX将开始趋于稳定，以美元计算的金额将开始下降。这将导致在未来几年内开始降低资本密集度。

Paragraph 2: Sorry, Randy, sorry. Do you. Yeah, my quick follow-up, I think you mentioned the past you could use your 5-nanometer to support the ramp of three. Given the AI and some of that pickup, I do still see that potential that could help optimize CAPEX, or do you need to keep it for existing nodes. And that's my final one, thank you. Yeah, so Randy is just also asking then how does tool commonality play a role in our future CAPEX? Yeah, we always build the two-canality between nodes to provide a greater flexibility. We mentioned last time the strong multi-year demand from N3, we are able to support that using some of the tools from N5. We're not going to comment on the CAPEX beyond this year.

抱歉，Randy，抱歉。你。是的，我的问题是，我记得你曾经说过，过去你可以利用你的5纳米技术来支持三个领域的增长。考虑到人工智能和其他一些需求，我仍然认为这可能有助于优化资本支出，或者你需要将其用于现有领域。这是我的最后一个问题，谢谢。是的，所以Randy也问了一下，工具通用性在未来资本支出中扮演了什么角色。是的，我们始终在节点之间建立工具通用性，以提供更大的灵活性。我们上次提到了N3强劲的多年需求，我们能够利用N5的一些工具来支持这一需求。我们不会对今年以后的资本支出发表评论。

Paragraph 3: However, as I just mentioned, every year the CAPEX spent to capture the future growth opportunities. Thank you, Randy. Okay, thank you, Randy. Operator, can we move on to the next participant? Next one to ask questions. No rushing from City.

然而，正如我刚刚提到的，每年的资本支出都是为了抓住未来的增长机会。谢谢，Randy。好的，谢谢，Randy。操作员，我们可以继续下一个参与者了吗？接下来有人要提问。不要急于回应城市的问题。

Paragraph 4: Thank you very much for taking my question, go up to the gentleman. Very appreciate CC and Mark sharing on TSMC view on the longer-term outlook in AI. So I'm just wondering how does TSMC evaluate your vacant capacity expansion to think up with the fungi and wafers side. Since there is no problem in the fungi space, will you kind of concern about potential over capacity in the back-hand side beyond next year? Or actually we may see more upside at the fungi wafer side. So our say like a conventional iteration rate may go higher into next year. Thank you. That's my first question.

非常感谢您回答我的问题，对那位先生提问。非常感谢CC和马克分享在AI领域的长期展望。我想知道TSMC如何评估您对空置产能的扩展，以适应菌盘和晶圆的需求。由于菌盘空间没有问题，您是否担心今年以后后端可能出现产能过剩的情况？或者实际上，我们可能会在菌盘晶圆的领域看到更多增长。因此，我们说的传统迭代率可能会在明年提高。谢谢。这是我的第一个问题。

Paragraph 5: Okay, so Laura's first question is looking at our expansion of advanced packaging or back-end versus the front-end wafer. As we are expanding the back-end, but not the front-end, does that imply that first that our front-end wafer particularly leading node, we expect the utilization to increase next year and then conversely, or is there a risk that we are over-expanding or over-capacity risk for the packaging side? Okay, Laura, let me answer the question. AI today is a very hard topic. A lot of my customers right now increase demand and that why increase the front-end is a demand of course. TSMC almost have the major share or the largest share, let me say that, in the front-end wafer. According to that finance adorting, or we really work closely with our customer and to decide what is the back-end that they need. And so on that perspective, we are planning our course as a capacity. Although probably still not enough, but we're working very hard to increase it. Over-capacity, not today is a concern. Today's concern is not enough capacity to support all the British strong demand.

好的，Laura的第一个问题是关于我们在后端封装或后端晶圆的扩张与前端晶圆的区别。由于我们正在扩展后端而不是前端，这是否意味着首先我们预计明年前端晶圆，特别是领先节点的利用率会增加，反之亦然，或者我们在封装方面存在过度扩张或超额产能的风险？好的，Laura，让我来回答这个问题。如今，人工智能是一个非常困难的话题。我现在有很多客户都增加了需求，当然，这就是为什么增加前端的需求。台积电几乎占据了前端晶圆的主要份额，让我这样说。根据那份财务报告，或者我们真的与我们的客户密切合作，并决定他们需要什么后端。基于这个角度，我们正在规划我们的产能。虽然可能还不够，但我们正在努力增加。过剩产能，现在不是一个问题。目前的问题是产能不足以支持所有强大的市场需求。

Paragraph 6: Thank you, CC. Thank you. That's very clear. Thank you very much, CC. And my second question is also about the growth margin outlook. If you and mom please correct me. I recall that the previous cycle, like seven or five-narrimeter, the capacity usually will be three times in the third year of the new technology ranking. So I'm still, I'm wondering if still the case for N3. In particular, you have seen that a significant capacity intensity increase may lead some margin pressure, particularly in the first few years. So I'm just wondering how the TSM hit balance your technology leadership and also the margin saturation. Laura, you said three times, sorry, are you referring to the revenue contribution? Sorry, you said N7.

谢谢你，CC。非常感谢你。非常清楚，非常感谢你，CC。我的第二个问题也是关于增长率展望的。如果你和妈妈请纠正我。我记得在之前的周期中，像七奈米或者五奈米，容量通常在新技术排名的第三年会增加三倍。所以我很好奇对于N3是否仍然适用。尤其是你们看到显著的容量密度增加可能会在最初几年造成一定的利润压力。所以我想知道TSM如何平衡技术领先地位和利润饱和。Laura，你说的三倍，对不起，你是指收入贡献吗？对不起，你说的是N7。

Paragraph 1: Okay, so all right, let me try to summarize your question. I think Laura is asking N7 and N5, we substantially expand the capacity. So what is the case for N3? And then also in terms of the profitability of N3 or growth margin to be more specific as it compares to N5 and N7 previously. Is that roughly correct, Laura? Yes, thank you, Chair. Okay. Okay, Laura, let me answer this question. As I just mentioned, the N3 due to the increasing process complexity is becoming more challenging than the previous notes. We, but at the same time, we will continue to sell our value and drive down the cost at the same time. But we still believe that N3 will be a long lasting or a large note for TSMC. With all the efforts, and we still believe that the whole company's growth margin will be 53% and higher. Okay, Laura, does that answer your question? Yes. Okay, thank you, Laura. Operator, let's move on to the next participant, please.

好的，让我试着总结一下你的问题。我认为Laura在问N7和N5，我们在扩大产能方面取得了实质性的进展。那么N3的情况又是如何呢？而且从盈利能力来看，尤其是与之前的N5和N7相比，N3的盈利能力如何？Laura，我理解得差不多了，对吗？是的，谢谢主席。好的。Laura，让我回答这个问题。就像我刚才提到的，由于流程复杂度的增加，N3变得比之前的note更具挑战性。我们将继续销售我们的价值，并同时降低成本。但我们仍然相信N3将是台积电的长青或大型note。通过我们的努力，我们仍然相信整个公司的增长率将达到53%以上。Laura，这回答了你的问题吗？是的。好的，谢谢你，Laura。接线员，我们继续进入下一个参与者，请。

Paragraph 2: Yes, right now we have a role followed from, you know, treat research. Go ahead, please. Okay, thank you for taking my question. This course of your revenues in the legacy note, 16 and 28 nanometers in particular, we're down around 15 to 20% Q and Q. And my question is, were there any particular end markets that cost this decline? And how do you think about the recovery of those legacy notes? Should we sell a factory copy in a four-quarter of this year? Or is that more 20.24, you said? Thank you. Okay, so, Rose, first question is looking on the mature notes, such as 16 and 28. He notes that he notes, sorry, that those all saw sequential declines in the second quarter. So, his question is, what is driving this, you know, what end markets are driving these decline and what is the expectation for this in the second half? Let me answer that question. The mature notes, wave reactor, all the product actually tried to be companionship for the smartphone or for the PC market or for the HPC. So, while the total unit of smartphone become weaker and PC become weaker. So, is the leading edge technology note being also demand dropping and so the mature note, that's together. Did I answer your question? Yes, thank you. That's very clear.

是的，我们现在有一个从治疗研究中得出的角色。请继续。好的，谢谢您回答我的问题。您的收入情况，特别是您在16纳米和28纳米的旧款产品上，环比下降了15%至20%。我的问题是，有没有特定的终端市场导致了这种下降？您如何看待这些旧款产品的复苏？我们在今年第四季度是否应该推出一个四分之一？还是应该更多地集中在2024年？谢谢。好的，首先，关于成熟产品如16纳米和28纳米的问题。他提到在第二季度，这些产品都出现了连续下降。所以，他的问题是，是什么推动了这一情况，哪些终端市场推动了这一下降，并且对下半年的预期如何？让我回答这个问题。成熟产品，例如波动反应堆，所有这些产品都是为了智能手机、个人电脑市场或高性能计算市场而设计的。所以，随着智能手机的总体销量减弱以及个人电脑市场的减弱，尖端技术的产品需求也下降，从而影响了成熟产品。我的回答是否解答了您的问题？是的，谢谢。非常清楚。

Paragraph 3: My second question, any focus on cobals and advanced packaging in general and also the weakness that you see in the remainder of your business? Would you maybe comment on the percentage of your cap X spending that will go towards leading notes, specialty notes and packaging this year compared to last year? Okay, so, Rose, second question is for 2023 cap X, which our CFO has said towards the lower end of the 32 to 36 range. Can we give a breakdown between leading edge specialty technologies and then the packaging, testing, mass making and others? Leading edge technology accounts for between 70 to 80 percent of our total K-PEX in the year. Mature specialty technology between 10 to 20 percent and the remaining are split between advanced packaging and EBO and some others. Okay, thank you, Rose.

我的第二个问题是，你们是否专注于钴和先进封装以及你们在其他业务方面看到的弱点？您能否对今年与去年相比，您的资本支出会有多少比例用于先进封装、特殊节点和封装方面进行评论？好的，所以，Rose，第二个问题是关于2023年的资本支出，我们的首席财务官表示将处于32至36的较低水平。我们能否对先进技术、特殊技术以及封装、测试、批量生产等进行详细分析？先进技术占我们年度总资本支出的70%至80%，成熟特殊技术占10%至20%，其他部分则分配在先进封装、电池技术和其他领域。好的，谢谢，Rose。

Paragraphs: Paragraph 1: Perfect, thank you. All right, operator, let's move on to the next participant, please. Next one we have a funny link from the BS.

段落1：太好了，谢谢。好了，接线员，请转到下一个参与者。接下来我们有来自BS的一个有趣的链接。

Paragraph 2: Thank you very much, Grafton, thank you for taking my questions. So, my number one question is on three nanometer ramp up. We are going through several quarters of mass production. I think you must have a particular visibility for customer engagement for the coming few years. So, I wonder now how should we think about the overall ramp of three nanometer? If we compare with five and seven nanometer, if we look at five, you reach toward 18 percent of revenue in the second year of mass production and then about 24 percent of revenue in the third year. Whereas for three nanometer, I think the concerns by far from customers have been on cost, then the question will be if HPC is significant enough to still drive a meaningful pickup of three nanometer. And so, it would be greatly appreciated if you could provide us any kind of thoughts.

非常感谢你，Grafton，谢谢你回答我的问题。所以，我首先想问的问题是关于三纳米的扩产情况。我们正在经历几个季度的大规模生产。我认为你们一定对未来几年的客户参与有一个特别清晰的预期。因此，我想知道我们应该如何看待三纳米的整体扩产情况？如果我们将其与五纳米和七纳米进行比较，对于五纳米，在大规模生产的第二年，收入约占到18％，而在第三年约占到24％。而对于三纳米，我认为客户们目前最关心的是成本问题，那么问题就是如果高性能计算仍然能够带动三纳米的显著增长。所以，如果你能提供任何想法，我们将非常感激。

Paragraph 3: Thank you very much. Okay, so, Sonny's first question is on the ramp of three nanometer. Her question really, I believe, is coming from a percentage of revenue contribution. She wants to know how is the ramp of three nanometer and then can it contribute to the revenue like N5 and N7 in the past? Yeah, as I just said, we believe N3 will be a long lasting and large note for TSMC. Now, in terms of percentage, I think it's sometimes less important because our overall corporate revenue is much, much bigger these days than before. So, I think you should also take that into consideration. But, all of the amount wise, it's a much bigger note. Yeah. NCC also said it's multi-year strong structural demand. Yeah, sorry. Okay. Got it.

非常感谢。好的，所以，Sonny的第一个问题是关于三纳米的上坡。她的问题实际上是关于收入贡献百分比的。她想知道三纳米的上坡情况如何，能否像过去的N5和N7那样对收入做出贡献？是的，正如我刚刚说的，我们相信N3将是台积电长期持续的重要项目。至于百分比方面，我认为有时候不那么重要，因为我们整体的公司收入如今要比以前大得多。所以，我认为你也应该考虑到这一点。但是，从金额方面来看，它是一个更大的数字。是的，南亚也说过它会有多年的强劲结构性需求。是的，对不起。好的，明白了。

Paragraph 4: Well, so I have a quick follow-up on the nanometer profitability. And so, Wendell has provided pretty good insight about the dilution for 2024. But he's technically a new note would take about seven to eight quarters to get to corporate average after mass production. I understand now corporate average gross margin is also higher. But any expectations that N3 will become in line with corporate average gross margin? Yeah. So, Sonny's question is looking at the three nanometer. Her question is really, you know, that with three nanometer and process complexity, Sonny, you're asking really, can it reach the corporate average over time? Or is there a timeline that you are expecting? Or a timeline to reach? Yeah, Sonny, as I just mentioned, it's becoming more challenging for the leading notes because of the process complexity increases a lot. It applies to N3. So, it will be challenging for N3. And we actually mentioned that at the beginning of last year already, it will be challenging that for N3 to reach the corporate average in seven to eight quarters, time frame like before. Yeah. But however part of it is really because of the higher corporate margin that we currently have. Got it. Thank you.

嗯，所以关于纳米盈利能力我有一个快速的后续问题。Wendell已经提供了关于2024年稀释的很好的见解。但他实际上说一个新的说明需要大约七到八个季度才能达到公司平均水平，这是在大规模生产之后。我现在明白公司平均毛利率也较高。但是，您是否期望N3能够达到公司平均毛利率呢？是的。所以，Sonny的问题是关于三纳米。她问的问题实际上是，随着三纳米和工艺复杂性，Sonny，你真正在问的是，它能随时间达到公司平均水平吗？或者你期望达到的时间表是什么？是的，正如我刚才提到的，因为工艺复杂性的增加，对于领先的芯片来说变得越来越具有挑战性。N3也是如此。实际上，我们在去年年初就提到过，N3要在七到八个季度的时间框架内达到公司平均水平将会是具有挑战性的。但是，部分原因确实是因为我们目前拥有较高的公司利润率。明白了，谢谢。

Paragraph 5: My second question is on two nanometers. And so, if we look at your target for two nanometers improvement over three nanometers in tons of speed and power, the upgrade seems to be actually less than three nanometers over five nanometers. So, I wonder what's actually the implication of G8 transition to cost versus performance is the target somewhat conservative or there's other technological challenges that we need to consider? Okay. Sonny, second was really her third. But the question is on N2. She notes that the performance and the improvement seem to be less than three nanometer versus five nanometers. So, could we talk more about that? Yeah, let me answer the question. Sonny, you have a very good observation. Yes, you are right. As a compare node to node from five to three, the improvement, it becomes less from three to two. But let me point it out. Usually, we are talking about the performance, the speed and also the density so that the geometry shrinkage. Now, we focus on the power consumption reduction, which is still a full node as a performance because of our time goes by more and more customers. Really, they are increasing towards greater power efficiency. This is very important for the data center, very important for the server. And that's what we are working on. So, did I answer your questions? Sonny? Got it. Thank you for the color and good to know that you are on track to deliver a second generation of two nanometer in 2026. Thank you. Thank you, Sonny. Operator, let's move on to the next participant, please. Next one to ask questions, Brett Simpson from everything.

我的第二个问题是关于两纳米的。所以，如果我们看一下你们对两纳米改进在速度和功耗方面的目标，这个升级似乎比五纳米的三纳米改进要少。所以，我想知道G8过渡对成本与性能有什么实际影响，目标有点保守还是有其他技术挑战需要考虑？好的。Sonny，第二个问题其实是第三个问题。但问题是关于N2的。她注意到性能和改进似乎比五纳米与三纳米之间的差距要小。所以，我们能谈得更多吗？是的，我来回答这个问题。Sonny，你的观察非常好。是的，你是对的。从五纳米到三纳米这样的对比，改进确实会少一些，从三纳米到两纳米更是如此。但是请让我指出一点。通常，我们谈论的是性能、速度和密度，即几何缩小。现在，我们专注于降低功耗，这仍然是一个全新的性能节点，因为随着时间的推移，越来越多的客户在追求更高的功率效率。这对于数据中心非常重要，对于服务器也非常重要。这就是我们正在努力的方向。那么，我回答了你的问题吗？Sonny？知道了。谢谢你的解释，很高兴知道你们计划在2026年交付第二代两纳米工艺。谢谢。谢谢，Sonny。接入员，请继续下一个发言者，Brett Simpson来自Everything。

Paragraph 1: Yes, thanks very much. The first question is for CC. We are interested in getting a read on the customer reception you are getting for the new variant for N3. I think you talked about N3P and 3X. Are customers still as focused on N3E, or are you seeing a preference for them to migrate to the new variants such as N3P and 3X rather than N3E? And this is a follow on for AI. When do we actually start to see N3 adoption for N3?

是的，非常感谢。第一个问题是给CC的。我们对于N3的新变体获得的客户反应非常感兴趣。我记得你提到了N3P和3X。客户们是否仍然关注N3E，或者他们更倾向于迁移到新的变体，如N3P和3X，而不是选择N3E呢？这是给AI的一个后续问题。我们何时开始看到N3的采用情况呢？

Paragraph 2: Thank you. Okay, so Brett's first question is looking at our three nanometer families and the continuous enhancements that we always have. He is asking what is the customer reception of N3P and N3X? How does this compare or cannibalize N3? And when do we expect AI related to adopt three nanometer family solutions? Let me answer the last one first. AI application already adopting that our N3 technology node, we continue to improve our technology as we always do. So we have a N3E, N3P, N3X. X is the actual performance that's for the very high speed, very high performance computing for some of the CPU's application. But N3E is widely accepted by all my customers, and they design starting from N3E, and we hear of them, okay, for some of them, go to the N3P. So altogether, every version, every variation, there's a lot of customer engagement right now.

谢谢。好的，Brett的第一个问题是关于我们的三纳米产品系列和我们一直都有的持续改进。他问的是，N3P和N3X的客户接受情况如何？这和N3之间有什么不同或者互相咬合的情况？以及我们何时预计AI领域采用三纳米产品系列解决方案？让我先回答最后一个问题。AI应用已经开始采用我们的N3技术节点，我们继续改进我们的技术，就像我们一直在做的那样。所以我们有N3E、N3P和N3X。X代表的是非常高速、非常高性能的计算，适用于一些CPU应用。但是N3E已经被我所有的客户广泛接受，并从N3E开始设计，我们听说有一些客户已经转向了N3P。所以总的来说，每个版本、每种变化都有大量的客户参与。

Paragraph 3: Okay, thank you, CC. Okay, and maybe just the second question from Mark. Mark, you were talking about the building up the ecosystem in some of the overseas markets like the US, and you were talking about skill shortage. But can you talk about what you think the like for cost differences to operate in the US versus Taiwan? I think you're a TSMC founder, talked previously about a 50% premium to operate in the US. Can you just clarify if it's likely to be that high? And then when would you expect the cash support from the US chip act to be made available to TSMC? Thank you.

好的，谢谢，CC。好的，也许我们可以从马克那里得到第二个问题。马克，你刚刚谈到了在一些海外市场如美国建立生态系统的问题，并且提到了技能短缺。但是你能谈谈在美国和台湾运营的成本差异吗？我记得你是台积电的创始人，之前说过在美国运营要支付50％的溢价。你能否澄清是否会高达这个水平？同时，你预计美国芯片法案的资金支持何时会向台积电提供？谢谢。

Paragraph 4: Okay, so Brett, second question is for Chairman. He wants to know in basically the cost gap, how big is the cost gap of FAB in the US versus in Taiwan? A founder has said 50% or more, is it that high? And then concurrently with the chips act, when or how and when do we expect to receive the incentives to support? Yes, Simpson. I think the founder is right. I mean, at this point, if we're using the current supply chain and labor cost, indeed, that's the difference. However, we try to work with the US administration. First of all, on the subsidy, cash subsidy and investment tax credit, that is to cover the gap in the first five years, approximately. When the tool is depreciated, then the ecosystem becomes prominent. That is what is the material cost, chemical cost, and the labor cost. And we are working with our supplier to set up some of the more efficient supply sites and to be lower. But the US administration has decided to also subsidize our suppliers. So that is still in the work. How much it can further decrease? I don't know. But I think either way, we will strengthen our pricing values and be able to keep the corporate profitability as we forecast it now. Thank you, Chairman.

好的，Brett，第二个问题是给董事长的。他想知道在FAB的成本差距方面，美国与台湾之间的成本差距有多大？一位创始人说是50%或更多，是否真的这么高？同时，随着芯片法案的推进，我们何时以及如何预计会收到支持的激励措施？是的，Simpson。我认为创始人说得对。我意味着，从目前的供应链和劳动力成本来看，确实存在差距。然而，我们努力与美国政府合作。首先，在补贴、现金补贴和投资税收方面，来弥补这个差距，大约是在前五年的时间里。当工具折旧后，生态系统变得突出。这就是材料成本、化学成本和劳动力成本。我们正在与供应商合作，建立更高效的供应地点来降低成本。但美国政府已决定对我们的供应商进行补贴。所以这还在进行中。它可以进一步降低多少？我不知道。但我认为无论如何，我们将加强我们的定价价值，并能够保持我们目前预测的公司盈利能力。谢谢，董事长。

Paragraph 5: Okay. Thank you, Brett. Okay. In the interest of time operator, we'll take questions from the last two participants in the queue, please. Yes. Next one to ask question, Matei, who's standing from SIJ. Yes. Thanks for taking my question. I'm going to go back to the gross margin. And I think you highlighted the factor for 23. You're still tracking to 53% gross margin on a USDA basis. That would imply that Q4 could be flat to up. And I just want to better understand how this tracking, I'm not asking for a guy than a Q4, but if 2023 gross margin is going to be 53% plus, that would imply Q4 flat to up. Is that correct?

好的，谢谢，布雷特。好的，为了节约时间，接线员，请我们来自队列中的最后两个参与者提问。是的，接下来一个提问的是马泰来自SIJ公司。谢谢你们接受我的问题。我要回到毛利率上。我认为你们强调了23年的因素。你们的毛利率在美国农业部基础上仍然保持在53%。这意味着第四季度可能保持不变或上升。我只是想更好地理解这个情况，我不是要问Brett关于Q4的指导意见，但如果2023年的毛利率将超过53%，那么第四季度可能会持平或上升。这样说对吗？

Paragraph 6: All right, Matei. I think we'll let Wendell answer this question. But Matei is asking basically, are we saying that 2023 will be 53% and higher? Matei, we're not giving our guidance beyond this third quarter. So we're not saying what Jeff just said. What we're saying is only some of the negative factors will affect the second half of the year. As to 53% and higher, that's a long term gross margin targets for TSMC. Yeah, we did not provide a guidance for 2023 specifically, Matei, as Wendell just said, 53% and higher is our long term target, which we believe is achievable. Do you have a second question?

好的，Matei。我想我们会让Wendell回答这个问题。但Matei基本上是在问，我们是不是在说2023年将超过53％？Matei，我们并没有超越第三季度的指引。所以我们并不是在说Jeff刚才说的。我们只是说，只有一些负面因素会影响今年下半年。至于53％及以上，那是TSMC的长期毛利率目标。是的，Matei，我们没有特别针对2023年提供指引，正如Wendell刚才说的，53％及以上是我们认为可实现的长期目标。你还有第二个问题吗？

Paragraph 1: Okay, thank you. Your updated guide suggests that revenues in the second half would be up 10 to 12% versus the first half. Obviously, step up is lower than prior expectations. What I want to better understand is how should we think about continued inventory correction among your customer versus new product ramp by some of the other customers? Is there any way you can differentiate these two trends?

好的，谢谢。你的最新指南显示，下半年的收入将比上半年增长10%至12%。显然，增幅低于之前的预期。我想更好地了解您的客户们继续进行库存调整和其他客户们推出新产品之间的区别，您能否分辨出这两个趋势？

Paragraph 2: Okay, Matei is asking with our full year guidance, it implies a more mild second half seasonality. So he wants to know how much strength of the new customer product launches is offset by continued inventory correction, sort of if we can provide more color on that. That's a tough question to answer. Matei, your observation is right. Our second half seasonality is a more mild than previous years. But of course, we have N3 ramped up and for the new product launch. But what is the impact? How to separate them? No, I cannot share too much of the detail of that.

好的，Matei正在问关于我们整年指导中的，这意味着第二半年的季节性较为温和。所以他想知道新客户产品推出的力度有多大，是否会被持续的库存调整抵消，以及能否提供更多细节。这是一个难以回答的问题。Matei，你的观察是正确的。我们今年下半年的季节性相对来说要温和一些。但当然，我们已经在N3方面进行了增强，并进行了新产品的推出。但影响是什么？如何加以区分呢？不，我不能分享太多关于这方面的详细信息。

Paragraph 3: Okay, Matei. Okay. Thank you. Operator, then let's move on to the last participant, please. Yes, the last one on cue is a challenge from Meehan. Thanks. Hi, thanks for squeezing me in. I have two questions. The first question is, I want to ask about A.I. Especially around the P.F.M.C. money type of A.I. trend. We did hear from commentary that for certain A.I. applications, P.F.M.C. sell your chips for a few hundred bucks, but the P.F.M.C. customers can actually sell for 10 to 1000 dollars to their end customers. So I mean, some investors I spoke with really feel it pains them to see P.F.M.C. creative events, technology, they're probably to build greater value than this. So the question really is, how does T.S.M.C. think about maybe that's monetization going forward for the capability to produce all these A.I. chips. And really I want to tie back to one thing, management mentioned in the pre-care remarks, the A.I. growth, 50% taser, how much of that is volume and how much of that could be the pricing at the very time of a T.S.M.C. expected the growth over the next few years.

好的，Matei。好的。谢谢。操作员，请继续下一个参与者。是的，排在末位的一个挑战来自Meehan。谢谢。嗨，谢谢你给我安排时间。我有两个问题。第一个问题是关于人工智能（A.I.）的。特别是关于P.F.M.C类型的A.I.趋势。我们确实听到一些评论说，对于某些A.I.应用，P.F.M.C.芯片的销售价格只有几百块钱，但是P.F.M.C.的客户却可以以10到1000美元的价格将其卖给最终用户。所以我的意思是，和我交谈的一些投资者真的觉得很痛心，看到P.F.M.C.的创新技术可能拥有比这更高的价值。所以问题真正的是，台积电如何思考未来可能的盈利方式，以生产所有这些A.I.芯片的能力。我还想回溯一下，在控制风险的陈述中，管理层提到了A.I.的增长，50%的增长率，其中多少来自销量，多少来自台积电在未来几年预计的定价。

Paragraph 4: Thank you. Okay, Charles's question first is on A.I. again, basically he's asking about monetization or capturing value, let's say. He notes that T.S.M.C. we may be selling chips for a few hundred dollars, but our customers are able to sell it for tens of thousands or even more. So is T.S.M.C. giving away too much of the value? Can we better sell our value or monetize to capture greater value with the A.I. trend? Well, Charles, I used to make a joke on my customer say that I selling him a few hundred dollars of a chip and then he sold it back to me with a two hundred thousand U.S. dollar. But let me say that we are happy to see customer doing very well. And if customer do well, T.S.M.C. does well. And of course we work with them and we share our value to them. And fundamentally, we want to say that we are able to address and capture a major portion of the market in terms of a semiconductor component in A.I. Did I answer your question?

谢谢。好的，首先是查尔斯的问题与人工智能有关，基本上他在问的是关于货币化或价值捕获，可以这么说。他指出，台积电为几百美元出售芯片，但我们的客户能以数万甚至更高的价格销售。那么，台积电是否为损失了太多的价值？我们能否更好地销售我们的价值或利用人工智能趋势实现更大的价值捕获？嗯，查尔斯，我以前常开玩笑对我的客户说，我以几百美元的价格卖给他芯片，然后他用二十万美元卖回给我。但请允许我说，我们很高兴看到客户做得很好。如果客户做得好，台积电也会表现良好。当然，我们与他们合作并与他们分享我们的价值。而且，从根本上说，我们希望能够在人工智能的半导体组件市场中占据并获得一大部分份额。我是否回答了你的问题？

Paragraph 5: Yes, what about the part about 50% cable? How much of that volume that I'm sure we expect from pricing elements in that long term growth? So the first tip, I'm sorry. Yeah, so the second part is about close to 50% cable for A.I. server with A.I. processor. How much of that is volume? How much of that is price? We cannot separate out but let me share with you again. We talk to the customers because we have a major share of that all the leading edge technology node. So we know that we can make our judgment. And so we forecast of 50% cable. How much of that is on the front end, back end or others? I'm not able to share with you about it. But let me assure you that TSMC is going to capture a major portion of the market in terms of semiconductor component. Okay Charles.

是的，那关于50%的电缆部分呢？我确定我们期望从定价要素中得到多少体积，以支持长期增长？所以第一个提示，抱歉。是的，那么第二部分是关于占到近50%的带有人工智能处理器的人工智能服务器。其中多少是体积？多少是价格？我们无法分开计算，但让我再次与您分享。我们与客户进行了交流，因为我们在所有领先技术节点中占据了主导地位，所以我们了解我们可以做出判断。因此，我们预测了50%的电缆需求。其中前端、后端或者其他部分占多少，我无法与您分享。但请放心，台积电将在半导体组件市场上占据很大一部分。好的，Charles。

Paragraph 6: Thank you. Can I ask you a second question? Last question. Yes, no problem. Last one. Can I ask about the cat pack? I think I heard a comment that maybe if I wind up about $1 a month, cat packs are going to level up from here. And I think the management used to point us analysts to look at the 2010-2013 period with the high capital price of these cat packs actually went up for $3.4 billion per year to 10 and actually after that, TSMC cat packs gave the level up around the 10 billion level for roughly five years until 2019. By telling us the cat pack is probably going to level up, are you telling us or are you alluding to maybe there will be some steady state cat packs numbers going forward? Maybe starting from 24-25 around 30 billion-ish level. That's just a clarification on that comment on leveling up.

谢谢。我能问第二个问题吗？最后一个问题。是的，没问题。最后一个。我可以问一下猫包的事吗？我好像听说过一个评论，可能如果我每个月都赚约1美元，猫包的水平就会提升。而且我记得管理层曾经告诉我们分析师们看2010年至2013年期间，猫包的资本价格实际上从每年34亿美元上升到100亿，实际上在那之后，TSMC的猫包水平大约维持在100亿水平，直到2019年。通过告诉我们猫包可能会水平提升，你是在告诉我们还是在暗示或许未来会有一些稳定状态的猫包数量？也许从2024年或2025年开始，水平会达到约300亿左右。这只是对那个提及“水平提升”的评论的澄清。

Paragraph 1: Okay, so Charles second question is on our cat packs. He wants to know capital spending starting to level up. I think Wendell said in the next several years, so not any specific, but what does that mean? Is it going to stay around the 30-some level or what does that mean by spending leveling off?

好的，那么查尔斯的第二个问题是关于我们的猫包。他想知道资本支出是否开始稳定增长。温德尔说在未来几年内，所以没有具体的数字，但这句话的意思是什么呢？是指保持在30多个水平上还是指资本支出趋于稳定？

Paragraph 2: Yeah, Charles, as I mentioned in the past few years, our cat packs increased dramatically from 10 billion to 36 billion last year. As we start to harvest those investments, the increase in cat packs would be slower than before. That's what I mean by leveling off.

是的，查尔斯，正如我在过去几年中所提到的，我们的猫包数量从100亿增加到去年的360亿。随着我们开始收获这些投资，猫包数量的增长速度将会比以前慢下来。这就是我所说的趋于稳定。

Paragraph 3: Okay, all right Charles? Okay, thank you.

好的，没问题，查尔斯。好的，谢谢你。

Paragraph 4: Okay, operator, this concludes our Q&A session.

好的，操作员，我们的问答环节到此结束了。

Paragraph 5: Before we conclude today's conference, please be advised that the replay of the call will be accessible within 30 minutes from now. The transcript will become available 24 hours from now, both of which you can be fined and available through TSMC's website at www.tsMC.com.

在我们结束今天的会议之前，请注意，电话回放将在30分钟内可访问。字幕将在24小时内提供，您可以通过台积电的网站www.tsMC.com获得这两个文件。

Paragraph 6: So thank you for joining us today. We hope everyone continues to stay well. Have a good rest of the summer and we hope you will join us again next quarter. Goodbye and have a good day.

所以感谢大家今天的参与。我们希望大家继续保持健康。祝你们度过愉快的夏季，希望下个季度你们还能再次加入我们。再见，祝你们有个愉快的一天。