Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft
发布时间 2019-10-15 22:46:40 来源
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Satcha, we are so excited to have you today, as you can see. You've said that Microsoft's mission is not to be cool, it's to make others cool. But Bob Dylan is playing across campus today, and you sold out faster than him, so. We certainly think Microsoft is cool. Really though, we are so grateful to you for making the time to be with us, and we have a lot to cover, but I thought we could start with your childhood in India. You've said that your father never met a test, he didn't ace, while your mother was the opposite of a Tiger Mum. I love that contrast, and I'm curious how their different life philosophies shaped you.
谢谢你。谢谢你。谢谢你。谢谢你。Satcha，我们非常高兴今天能有你的到来，您可以看到我们非常兴奋。您曾经说过，微软的使命不是让自己变酷，而是让别人变酷。但是Bob Dylan今天在校园里演出，你的票比他还要快售罄，所以我们认为微软真的很酷。但实际上，我们非常感激您抽出宝贵的时间来和我们在一起，我们有很多话题要聊，但我想从您在印度的童年开始。您曾经说过，您的父亲从来没有没考过，而您的母亲正好相反，是一个不是老虎妈妈的人。我喜欢这种对比，我很好奇他们截然不同的生活哲学是如何影响您的。
First of all, thank you so much for having me here, it's great to be at the GSB, and Bob Dylan was my idol, so time's awesome changing. It's interesting, in fact, my father passed away just last month, and I've been reflecting quite a bit on what both my parents have meant to me, and my father was a Marxist economist and a civil servant, and he had a definitive point of view on what life was all about, and the struggle of life, and he's right, I mean, the guy always used to look at my marks, my scorecards, and used to be amazed that somebody could be that bad, and. Luckily enough, I think in some sense, he gave me in spite of all of that. A lot of confidence, because to him, he felt like, look, it's a marathon, you'll catch up, this is not that hard, and my mother was exactly the opposite, of course, all the only questions she would ever ask me, are you happy? And I would say, what the heck does that mean? When you're reading my scorecard, I don't know whether I should be happy or not. But again, the two of them, I think, when I look back, growing up in Hyderabad in India in the late 70s, early 80s, interestingly enough, there are three or four of us, who now suddenly have become CEOs from the same high school in this, you know, at that time, what was off the grid place, I think it was that ability to think, that ability to pursue your own passions, and have enough confidence as well as some humility. As sort of when I look back, perhaps the biggest drivers of what turned out to be a reasonable set of things.
首先，非常感谢你们邀请我来到这里，我很高兴能够来到GSB。鲍勃·迪伦是我的偶像，所以时代正在改变。事实上，我的父亲就在上个月去世了，我一直在反思我父母对我的意义。我父亲是一位马克思主义经济学家和公务员，他对生活的意义和奋斗有着自己独到的看法。他总是会看着我的分数单，惊讶于我怎么会这么差。但很幸运，尽管如此，他给了我很多信心，因为他认为这只是一场马拉松，你会赶上的，这并不难。而我的母亲则恰好相反，她唯一会问我的问题就是，你快乐吗？我会说，这有什么意义？当你在看我的分数时，我不知道我应该快乐还是不快乐。但回头看看，两位父母对我的影响还是很大的。在印度70年代末80年代初的海得拉巴长大，有三四个和我一样从同一所高中走出来，成为了CEO，这是一个很有趣的现象。我认为这是由于我们有追求自己激情的能力以及足够的自信和谦逊。回首往事，这或许是推动我取得一系列成就的最大动力。
Absolutely, yeah, it's really clear how much your parents influenced you, and another foundational influence for you was sports. Now, my fellow international classmates and I were mystified daily by American sports references. So we're very happy to talk about cricket. Yeah. You love cricket and you dreamt of playing professionally. What lessons did you take from the pitch?
当然，你的父母对你的影响很明显，还有一个对你很有基础性影响的是体育。现在，我和我的国际同学每天都会因为美式运动的引用而感到神秘莫测。所以我们很高兴来聊一聊板球。对，你喜欢板球，梦想着成为一名职业选手。那你从球场上学到了什么教训？
Well, I mean, you know, all of us here in South Asian are obsessed with that sport, and you know, it's sort of. In fact, that's right. I mean, that was what I was pretty much all bound up in, all through my high school, into college. And when I look back, you know, I think all sport teaches you a lot. And especially at least I feel team sport, I think, has a huge impact on how you think about leadership. I'll never forget this one particular incident that I've been subsequently written about. There was this guy who was my school captain who went on to do pretty well in the context of Indian cricket. I was bowling trash that day. And he took over from me, got a wicket, which is a breakthrough. But then he gave me the ball back. And then I went on to have perhaps the best bowling spell I've ever had in my life. And I've always reflected as to why he did he do that. And then, in fact, much later on in life, I went back and asked him even. And so at least the way I surmised it was a leadership decision he made. Saying, look, I recognize that this guy, he had recognized the importance of not breaking my confidence. And I should look, well, that's a pretty enlightened decision for a high school leader, you know, captain of a cricket team to make. And a lot of leadership lessons is that, right? Which is you've got to make hard calls on, say, performance. But also, you've got to be able to sort of understand that you need your team. And it's not like everybody's going to have a good day all the time. And that subtle distinction and that judgment, right? Which is one of the things that I feel, which is the most understated part of leadership, is judgment. And it's so important. And that judgment comes by you exercising this muscle around passing judgment and learning from it. And I thought that's one of the lessons I learned. He was building your confidence in a work by making it.
嗯，我的意思是，你知道的，我们南亚地区的人都痴迷于运动，这种运动对我们来说很重要。事实上，我高中时期和大学时期几乎都被这个运动所包围。回过头来看，我认为所有运动都能教给你很多东西。尤其是团队运动，我认为对你如何思考领导力有巨大的影响。我永远不会忘记我经历的这一件事情，当时我被写进了回忆录。当时我的学校队长在印度板球赛中表现出了不俗的成绩。那天我发球非常差，他替我上了场，拿到一个突破。但是他很快把球发回给了我，我随后表现得非常好，这或许是我生命中最好的发球表现。我一直在反思为什么他会那样做。事实上，很晚之后，我回去问了他。我至少可以推测出他那时做了一项领导决策。他认识到这个人的重要性，他认识到不打破我的信心的重要性。这是一位中学领袖所做的相当深刻的决定。很多领导力的教训就是这样，你必须就绩效做出艰难的决策，但也必须能够理解你需要你的团队。不是每个人都会一直表现得很好，这种微妙的区别和判断就是我认为最被低估的领导角色的一部分，那就是判断力。这很重要。判断力的提高需要你行使这个判断肌肉并且从中学习。他通过这种方式打造了你的信心。
So you didn't end up playing professional cricket. And here I am. But you didn't make your way to the US. And soon after you started your own family. And in reading your book, something that really moved me was how much you talk about your family. And the role they've played bringing empathy into your life. Could you share with us how being a parent has shaped you?
所以你最终没有成为职业板球运动员。而我在这里。但你没有前往美国。之后你很快就自己成立了家庭。在阅读你的书时，让我深受感动的是你谈论家庭的频率。他们在你的人生中发挥了带来同理心的作用。你能和我们分享一下当父母如何塑造了你吗？
Yeah, I mean, it's a very big part in part of what is perhaps shaped my worldview. And for both my wife and me, both my wife and I grew up together. We went to the same schools. And we were the only children of our parents. So when we were both late in our late 20s, when our first son was about to be born, we were very excited.
这句话大致意思是，这是我看待世界的重要组成部分，对我来说非常重要。我的妻子和我在一起长大，一起上学，并且我们的父母都只有一个孩子。所以当我们二十多岁时，我们的第一个孩子即将出生，我们非常激动。
The household was all about, you know, my wife was an architect. And so she was practicing at that time. And so my only concern was when will I go back to school? And I'll go back to work and how are we going to think about the baby's daycare and what have you? And Lauren, behold, one night, you know, there was some complications. And our son Zane was born because of some complications he now has cerebral palsy. He's got, he has quadriplegia and is locked in.
我们家庭当时一切都围绕着我妻子——她是一名建筑师。她正在当时从事这个职业。所以，我唯一需要担心的是，我什么时候可以回到学校，回到工作岗位，还有我们要怎样考虑宝宝的日托问题等等。结果，某天晚上，出现了一些并发症，我们的儿子Zane因此出生并患上了脑瘫。他四肢瘫痪，目前处于锁定状态。
And I would say for the first, maybe as many as five years, I struggled with it primarily because I felt that all these plans that I had for what our life was going to be like had taken a real turn. And then I watched Anu go up and down 520 in Seattle, taking him to every therapy possible speech, occupational. And then I was just watching it and still moaning my own sort of whatever issues. But then he dawned on me that nothing actually happened to me. Something had happened to my son and that I needed to as a father step up and do my duty.
我想说，在最初的五年里，我很努力地面对这一切，主要是因为我觉得我们生活中所有我所设想的计划已经发生了实质性的转变。我看着安努一遍遍地往返西雅图的520高速公路，带他去听言语治疗、职业治疗等各种疗法。我只是看着，仍旧在叹息我自己的各种问题。但是后来我明白了，其实并没有什么事情发生在我身上，而是发生在了我的儿子身上。作为一个父亲，我需要站出来承担起我的责任。
In other words, it is the harsh but real lesson around being able to see the world through the eyes of my son. That's what empathy is all about. And I think that's what it is. I mean, it's innate in us all as humans. I think empathy is something that we are all very capable of. Life teaches us that. And in small ways and in tough ways.
换句话说，能够透过我的儿子的眼睛看见世界是一种严酷但真实的教训，这就是同理心的意义所在。我认为这是人类本性中固有的能力，我们每个人都很有能力去体会同理心。生活教会了我们这一点，不管是在微小的事情中还是在困难的处境里。
Like I remember even the last interview by the last interviewer when I was interviewing at Microsoft was also a life changing moment for me. So I went through this interview. It was all caught on screen at that time. And so this guy sort of says, hey, here's a question for you. You're at the crossroads, a baby falls and is crying. What will you do? And I say, wow, this is some search algorithm I didn't learn.
就像我记得在面试Microsoft时，最后一个面试官提问的那个时刻也是一个改变我生命的时刻。所以我通过了这个面试。当时一切都被记录下来了。这个人说，“嘿，这里有个问题问问你。你正处于十字路口，一个婴儿掉了下来，正在哭泣。你会怎么做？”我说，“哇，这个搜索算法真的没学过啊。”
It must be some variant of some traveling salesman problem or something. And I sort of really thought about it for a few minutes. I'll go to the phone booth and call 911. This is pretty smart phone. And so he gets up. He squirts me out and he says, you know what? You need to develop some empathy because when a baby falls, you pick them up and hug them first before you call. And I thought that's it. I'm definitely not going to get this job.
这一定是某种旅行推销员问题的变体或者其它什么。我稍微思考了几分钟。我去公用电话亭打911。这手机真聪明。然后他站起来，把我推一边，说：“你知道吗？你需要培养一些同情心，因为当一个孩子摔倒时，你需要先抱起他们拥抱一下再打电话。” 我想这下糟了，我肯定拿不到这份工作了。
And lo and behold, I did get the job. But nevertheless, I mean, I really think that that's so core. And some people say, well, what does that have to do with sort of business? Or what does it have to do with work? And I believe it has everything to do with work.
看哪，我真的得到了这份工作。但是，我认为这是如此核心。有些人会问，这与商业或工作有什么关系？我相信这与工作有着千丝万缕的联系。
You know, I believe if you sort of say innovation is all about meeting unmet unarticulated needs of customers. Where is that source of your ability to get in touch with that unmet unarticulated need going to come from? Your ability to in some sense be able to listen between the lines to be able to extrapolate. And that's to me deep sense of empathy, right? So people talk about design thinking. I think design thinking is empathy.
你知道的，我认为创新就是满足顾客未被满足、未被表达的需求。那么，你如何获取与这些未被满足、未被表达的需要联系的能力呢？你需要有从字里行间去聆听和推断的能力，这就是我所说的深切的同情心。人们谈论设计思维，我认为设计思维就是同情心。
And so therefore I do believe that life teaches you empathy. And you know, empathy is the source to success in any innovative agenda you have. It's inspiring to hear you say that you think empathy is innate when we're living in a world where sometimes it feels like empathy is on the decline. So I think your point around empathy is really well taken.
因此，我相信人生会教给你同理心。你知道，同理心是任何创新计划中成功的源泉。听你说你认为同理心是天生的，真的很鼓舞人心，因为我们生活在一个有时感觉同理心正在衰退的世界中。所以我认为你关于同理心的观点非常中肯。
It's a great question because in fact, you know, it is such a big word. And it is hard. In fact, even recently at Microsoft, we realized that it's important for us to even understand what are the necessary conditions to even develop empathy. So one of the words we have developed, you know, we put into our sort of parlance is respect. For example, if you don't start with from a place of having some respect for the other person's views, where they come from, their complete history, it's very hard to develop empathy. So therefore I think you're absolutely right to say, you know, before you think about some of these higher level things, you have to sort of even question what are the basics that we need to get right. And that's become so core to your leadership at Microsoft.
这是一个很好的问题，因为实际上，你知道，这是一个如此重要的词。而且这很难。事实上，甚至最近在微软公司，我们意识到了理解发展同理心所必需的条件非常重要。因此，我们开发了一个词汇，称之为“尊重”。例如，如果您不从尊重对方的观点、其背景、完整历史等方面开始，很难发展同理心。因此，我认为你说的是绝对正确的，你必须首先探讨我们需要正确处理哪些基本问题，然后再考虑一些更高层次的问题。这已经成为微软领导力的核心。
So if we turn now to Microsoft, before you were CEO, you took this job leading Microsoft's first real cloud business. And Steve Barmer apparently told you this might be your last job at Microsoft because if you fail, there's no parachute. That feels like a lot of pressure. Why did you make that jump? You know, Steve, who went to school here, had many, he just went for one year from what I understand.
如果我们现在转向微软，你在成为CEO之前，曾领导微软的第一个真正的云业务。据说斯蒂夫·巴尔默曾告诉你，如果你失败了，就没有退路了，这感觉像是很大的压力。你为什么还要冒这个险？知道吗，斯蒂夫曾经在这里上过学，但据我所知，他只上了一年。
（译者注：此段话为对话形式，根据上下文推测而来。）
简单来说，此段话讲述的是一位人物在担任了微软的云业务负责人后，因为面临着巨大的压力而被告知如果失败了就没有后路。但他仍然决定承担这个任务。最后一句是在补充一个小细节，提到曾经在这个地方读过书的微软前CEO斯蒂夫·巴尔默，但只读了一年。
This is the funniest thing I should tell you. I guess the other guy who went to school here was Mukesh Ambani. So I believe one day Steve Barmer was introducing Mukesh in Bombay. And he joked that both of us dropped out of GSB except that Mukesh had never told anybody that he had dropped out of GSB. So there was a real scandal.
我有一个很有趣的事情要告诉你。我猜来这里上学的另外一个人是穆凯什·安巴尼。有一天，史蒂夫·巴尔默在孟买介绍穆凯什时开玩笑说我们俩都辍学了，只不过穆凯什从未告诉任何人他辍学了。结果引起了真正的丑闻。
And so Steve, you know, wanted us to really take this new business area, which was our online business. In fact, Susan was here and I worked on it for a long time as well. And he felt that look, this is a place where we needed to make progress. And Steve had this very clear sense. So what it means to succeed. And his point was you're going to go learn a lot.
斯蒂夫希望我们能够特别关注我们的线上业务这个新的业务领域。实际上，苏珊和我也长期致力于此。他认为这是我们需要取得进展的地方。斯蒂夫有一个非常清晰的意识，成功意味着你要去学习很多东西。
And of course, I'll fire you if you don't do a good job with it. And it is sort of a way for him to perhaps communicate both why he is the CEO cared about this business. And at the same time, his expectations. But I must say that particular tour of duty has been the most influential in how I've sort of thought about whether it's distributed computing at its core, whether it's the economic models that are going to be emergent. And that has been very, very helpful doing different things inside the company.
当然，如果你做不好这件事，我会解雇你。这也是他可能用来传达自己为何作为CEO关心这个企业的一种方式。同时，他也表达了他的期望。但我必须说，在我思考分布式计算的核心问题或者新兴的经济模型时，这段工作经历对我影响最深远。这对我在公司中做不同的事情非常有帮助。
It has helped me grow to run the company eventually. So I actually appreciate Steve both giving me that opportunity and more importantly giving me the message that look at the end of the day its performance that matters. Did you know at the time that that decision was putting you on a path to one day becoming the CEO? No way.
这件事帮助我成长并最终管理公司。因此，我非常感激史蒂夫给了我这个机会，更重要的是，他传达了一个信息，即关键是看结果。那时你知道这个决定最终会让你成为CEO吗？绝对不。
Most people ask me this, which is like, hey, did you have a sense that you'll become CEO? No. First of all, none of us grew up even. To us, especially having grown up in Microsoft, I don't think I even thought of a Microsoft where Bill and Steve were not actively engaged. And it's just not even in the realm of possibility.
大多数人问我这个问题，就像是在问：“嘿，你有没有感觉你会成为CEO？”不会。首先，我们都没有成长过。对我们来说，尤其是在Microsoft成长起来的人，我甚至没有想过一个没有比尔和史蒂夫积极参与的Microsoft的概念。而这根本就不可能。
The thing though, I would say especially, you know, business school graduates are an ambitious lot and you're all sort of saying, when am I going to be my CEO? My only advice there would be, you know, it's like don't wait for your next job to do your best work. That I think is the crux of it, which is if you think about every job you get as the most important job and as the thing that is perhaps your last job, but you gave it all. And of course, you know, from there, a lot of things will happen.
事实上，我要说的是，特别是商学院的毕业生们都是雄心勃勃的人，你们都在思考，“我何时才能成为CEO？” 我的建议是，不要等到下一份工作再去发挥你最好的能力。我认为这是最关键的，即如果你把每一份工作都视为最重要的工作，把它当作可能是你最后一份工作，但你依然倾尽全力。当然，从这里开始，会有很多事情发生。
And that's at least how I, it was not like the job that I had before becoming CEO, I somehow thought was just a stop on the way to something else. I actually thought that that was a fantastic job until, you know, I got the next job. And that next job was ultimately to become the CEO of Microsoft.
这至少是我个人的感受，我在成为CEO之前从事的工作不像现在这样。我当时认为它只是去往其他领域的中转站。直到我得到下一份工作，我才意识到之前的工作其实也很棒。那份工作最终引领我成为了微软的CEO。
And when you took that job, you faced some high expectations. Microsoft is struggling. You're following, as you mentioned, Bill Gates, Steve Barmer. And many people thought that this CEO should come from outside. So what did you draw on in that moment?
当你接受那份工作时，你面临着很高的期望。微软正在挣扎。你在跟随，就像你之前提到的比尔•盖茨、史蒂夫•巴尔默。很多人认为这位CEO应该来自外部。那么，在那个时刻，你借鉴了什么？
Yeah, I mean, look, I'm a consummate insider. I've grown up at Microsoft now 28 years. And I also recognized your point that I was taking over from Steve and Bill and Steve, even though it was not a founder for, he had found a status in the company. Bill and Steve built the company, Bill and Paul founded the company.
是的，我的意思是，我是一个彻底的内部人。我在微软长大并工作了28年。我认识到您的观点，即我正在接替史蒂夫和比尔以及史蒂夫，尽管他不是创始人，但他在公司中已经拥有了创始人的身份。比尔和史蒂夫创建了这家公司，比尔和保罗创立了这家公司。
And the one thing that perhaps I was more grounded having worked with them is as a non founder CEO, I needed to make explicit. Some of the things that I think founder CEOs can take for granted because founder CEOs can carry just because of who they are and what they mean to the organization a lot. And telegraph that very broadly and have followership.
作为一个非创始人CEO，我和他们的合作使我更加扎实，需要让某些我认为创始人CEO可能会认为理所当然的事情变得明确。因为创始人CEO可以仅仅因为他们是谁以及他们对组织意味着什么，而承担很多责任，传达这一点并广泛获得支持者。
Whereas I described myself as a mere mortal CEO, I felt I needed that sense of purpose to be deeply rekindled is something that I, you know, reinforced and culture. Both sort of these two pillars of sense of purpose and culture needed to become much more explicit.
尽管我把自己描述为一个普通的CEO，但我感觉我需要重燃深刻的目标感，这是我要在文化中重视和加强的事情。这两个支柱，即目标感和文化，都需要变得更加明确。
For example, when I joined Microsoft in 92, we used to talk about our mission is putting a PC in every home and every desk. It was pretty inspiring, right? I mean, you could even do an Excel spreadsheet, P times queue. It was easy to compute. And, except by the late 90s, we had more or less achieved that, at least in the developed world.
举个例子，当我在92年加入微软时，我们曾谈论过我们的使命是让每个家庭和每个桌子上都有一台电脑。这非常鼓舞人心，对吧？我的意思是，你甚至可以做一个 Excel 电子表格， P 乘以队列，这很容易计算。至少在发达国家，到了90年代末，我们已经基本实现了这一目标。
And since then, we had the struggle of what's next. And I felt like I needed to sort of go back in fact to the very origin of the company, right? I mean, Microsoft got started when we built or Paul and Bill built the basic interpretor for the Altair. And I believe that everything that needs to be known about Microsoft in 2019 can be traced back to our origin, which is we build technology so that others can build more technology, right?
自那以后，我们面对着接下来该怎么做的挑战。我感觉我需要回到公司最开始的阶段，也就是在构建Altair基础解释器时，我和Paul以及Bill开始创业的时光。我相信在2019年微软公司所需了解的一切，都可以追寻回我们的起源，也就是说我们开发技术是为了让别人更好地发展技术。
I felt like we were doing things out of envy and others we needed to get back to what we are core identities, right? Especially in 2019, where every company is a software company around the world, we can just basically be a software platform and tools provider and have a good business. And so I felt let's be proud of who we are. Of course, we got to express it differently. And then, you know, really reinforce that. That's why we talk about our mission around empowering people and organizations.
我觉得我们有时候做事是出于嫉妒，有时候我们需要回归我们的核心身份，对吗？尤其是在2019年，全世界每家公司都是一家软件公司，我们可以基本上成为软件平台和工具提供商，做一个好生意。所以我觉得让我们为自己感到自豪。当然，我们需要用不同的方式表达它。然后，你知道的，真正强化它。这就是为什么我们谈论我们的使命是赋予人们和组织力量。
The other piece though is we had to work on our culture. You know, I distinctly remember, I guess it was 98 when we first became the largest market cap company in the world. And many of us, you know, were lucky enough to participate on that wave of growth. But I remember that day when we walked around, you could see in the campus, people thought, wow, we must be God's gifts to mankind. Right? We're so smart. We're so good. Look at us. And except it was not the case. I mean, the case was, you know, it's a temporal thing and it only matters.
另一个要考虑的方面是我们必须改善我们的企业文化。我还记得，在98年的时候，我们成为了世界上市值最高的公司。当时许多人都有幸参与到了公司的快速增长中。但我清楚地记得，有一天我们在公司校园里走来走去时，能够看到人们认为我们是上帝赐予人类的礼物，我们很聪明、很优秀，看看我们吧！然而实际情况并非如此，它只是暂态的，只有重要的才会存在。
What matters is your ability to learn, grow, be grounded in the realities and, you know, and our customers and what have you. And so that's why I wanted a culture that stood for that learning organization. And in fact, my wife had introduced me to a book by a Stanford professor, Carol Dweck, which I'd read mindset many years before I became CEO, you know, was huge influence in our household as it relates to our own children's education.
重要的是你的学习能力，成长能力，并且要扎根于现实和顾客需求之中。因此，我想要一个强调学习组织文化。实际上，我的妻子向我推荐了一本斯坦福教授卡罗尔·德韦克的书，即《心态》。在成为CEO之前许多年，这本书对我们家庭的孩子教育产生了巨大影响。
But quite frankly, it was a great education for me because when I read that book, I realized that that that notion of growth mindset applies to individuals like me. It applies to companies like Microsoft. So we took that meme of growth mindset and said, look, let's not be no adults. Let's be learned all. And it's been a very helpful part of I would say our journey around this. What is a cultural meme that we can even make first class that we can have a real dialogue on?
说实话，那对我来说是一次很好的教育，因为当我读到那本书时，我意识到成长心态这个概念适用于像我这样的个人，也适用于像微软这样的公司。因此，我们采用了这个成长心态的概念，并说：“让我们不要只成为一个成年人，让我们成为一个不断学习的人。”这对于我们的旅程来说非常有帮助。有什么文化概念是我们可以把它作为第一流的，可以进行真正对话的吗？
Absolutely. And you talk a lot about this cultural shift. And in looking back at that over the last five years, what was the most difficult part to change? You instilled growth mindset. You did all of these things. But what were the hardest for it blocks? Look, I think it's always, it's a challenge. It's one thing to say growth mindset because sometimes people will come to me and say that Microsoft, Satya, we found the 10 people who don't have a growth mindset. The point about that, it's not about going looking for 10 people. It's about me being comfortable with confronting my own fixed mindset each day. And that's the hard part of it.
是的。你经常谈论这种文化变革。回顾过去五年，在这个变革中最难以改变的是什么？你灌输了成长心态，做出了所有这些事情。但是有哪些方面是最难以改变的呢？看，我认为这总是一个挑战。说成长心态是一回事，因为有时人们会来找我说，微软的萨蒂亚，我们找到10个没有成长心态的人。关键在于，这不是去寻找10个人的问题。这是关于我每天都要面对自己固有思维的难部分。
When you say you're a learning organization and you say, we've learned that here are the 10 people who have not learned, then that's a problem. And I think that's the reality of it. How do you bring about long-term change? I'll say one other thing. One of the reasons why I feel at least we have some momentum. I'm very careful not to sort of paint this as some destination we will reach or have reached for sure. It's going to be something that every day we're going to have to confront our fixed mindset.
当你说你是一个学习型组织，然后你又说，“我们已经学到了这里有10个人没有学到”，那就有问题了。我认为这就是现实。如何带来长期变革？我再说一件事。我感到至少我们有一些动力的原因之一是，我非常小心地不会把这看作是我们一定会达到或已经达到的某个目标。这将是我们每天都要面对固定思维的挑战。
We're always going to be imperfect. There is going to be a gap between what is our espoused sort of culture and what is the lived experience. The question is, are we working to bridge that gap? And it's very uncomfortable, especially in business where everything is graded by how close to perfection are you. To say, let's be imperfect and celebrate imperfection is just a hard thing. And that's why leadership at the top setting the tone, walking the walk, I think is the hard part.
我们永远都不会完美。我们宣扬的文化和实际经历之间会存在差距。问题在于，我们是否在努力弥合这个差距？尤其是在商业领域，因为一切都被评估为离完美有多近，所以说让我们去追求不完美，庆祝不完美是一件很困难的事情。这也是为什么在顶层领导身上树立榜样，言行一致是很难的。
But that's the real challenge of being able to implement change at scale. You want to set this culture of a growth mindset where people can take risks and make mistakes and learn from them. You want to walk the walk the walk.
但这是实现大规模变革的真正挑战。你需要建立一种成长思维的文化，在这种文化中人们可以冒险、犯错误并从中学习。你要践行自己的理念。
When have you had to lead by example on this front? Well, I mean, every day I would say. But in some sense, the decision one makes, for me, the ability to sort of take even take diversity and inclusion. Saying the word, saying we're going to make progress is one thing. And then to recognize that progress has to be something that really has to come from one's own first change in behavior.
你何时不得不以自己的行为带头？嗯，我觉得每天都需要。但某种意义上来说，对我来说，做出的决定，能力在于接受多样性和包容性。说出这些词语，说我们要取得进步是一回事。然后意识到进步必须从个人的行为改变中真正产生，这才是重要的。
And take the everyday experience of the senior leadership team meeting itself. It's an interesting thing. Every time I question myself on everything that we talk about as what we espouse that is more broadly applicable across the company, how much of it is represented in the behaviors starting with me of our own senior leadership team. We have some very amazing women who are part of our leadership team are they participating like anybody else.
关于高级领导团队会议的日常经验，这是一件有趣的事情。每次我都会质疑自己，我们所谈论的一切是否广泛适用于整个公司，我们自己的高级领导团队的行为是否真正代表了这些价值观。我们有一些非常出色的女性领导团队成员，她们是否像其他人一样积极参与呢？
And in fact, am I allowing for them to be able to really make sure that we are listening to them, they are able to feel like they're driving the company. And starting with that type of sensibility, which by the way is not constant, but at least I'll be pushing is sort of the way I think I remind myself of how important you're point about it sort of putting it everyday practice.
事实上，我是否让他们确信我们在听他们的意见，让他们感到他们在推动公司发展？以这种敏感方式开始，虽然不是一直存在的，但至少我会推动这种想法成为日常实践，这是我提醒自己你提到的重要点的方式。
We have three things that are the cultural pillars for us. One is diversity and inclusion. The other one is customer obsession. And then the other one is to bring the company together as one company as opposed to you know, you know, fragment of set of PNLs. All three of these are just super hard. Easy to say, but require everyday practice starting with me.
我们有三个文化支柱。其中之一是多元化和包容性。另一个是客户的迷恋。然后另一个是让公司成为一个整体，而不是一堆利润和损失的碎片。这三个支柱都非常难以实现。说起来容易，但需要每天实践，从我做起。
And I think diversity and inclusion is an interesting one because it's a topic that can invoke a lot of defensiveness. So to apply a growth mindset to that area is particularly powerful. You know, for example, the thing that we have recognized is you have to pull media to do a lot of things here. For example, we even change the compensation of our senior leaders starting even mine to ensure that we take this as a huge priority. You could say, well, you know, is the compensation change the real thing of you know, I'm not saying it's the only thing that needs to change, but it's an important thing.
我认为多元化和包容性是一个有趣的主题，因为它可以引发很多防御心理。因此，将成长思维应用于这个领域尤其强大。例如，我们已经认识到，需要推动媒体做很多事情。例如，我们甚至改变了我们的高级领导人的薪酬，包括我的薪酬，以确保我们将这视为一个极为重要的优先事项。你可以说，你知道，薪酬改变是真正的问题吗？我并不是说这是唯一需要改变的事情，但这是很重要的。
I myself had probably perhaps not recognized that measuring things, having a real metric around it and then compensating is actually is a good sort of start on a lot of fronts. And so, but the thing that we have come to realize is every intern class that joins Microsoft every year is more diverse than the previous one. But then look around and say, well, where's that diversity? You know, in the company. And so that means the real currency of a culture is inclusiveness. And that I think is the core job of what leaders do and what is the everyday experience of, you know, what happens at Microsoft.
我自己可能不曾意识到，采用实际的度量标准，并进行补偿，这实际上是很多方面的好开始。我们逐渐意识到的是，每年加入微软的实习生班级比上一年更加多样化。但是，如果环顾四周，就会发现公司里面的多样性在哪里呢？这意味着，文化的真正货币是包容性。我认为这是领导者的核心工作，也是每天在微软发生的经验。
Interestingly enough, I've also come to recognize that that first level manager has probably the most influence on what happens. And so I distinctly remember as a lead at Microsoft with five people working for me, who all were thinking, why is this guy leading us? Right? I mean, it's always the case because the first level job is the hardest job because there are five people who are also just recent graduates who are just sort of looking at you and saying, I can do what you do. And then you have a boss who's asking you to do many things.
有趣的是，我也认识到第一级管理者可能对发生的事情产生了最大的影响。因此，我清楚地记得当我在微软作为领导，有五个人在我的领导下工作时，他们都在想，为什么这个人能带领我们呢？是吗？这总是这样的情况，因为第一级工作是最难的工作，因为有五个人也是刚毕业的人正在看着你，说，我也能做到你做的事情。然后你有一个上司要求你做很多事情。
And so it's sort of real pressure cooker in the sense you sort of really have to do a lot. But that's when your attitude, your nurturing of that five people who are working for you around inclusiveness will matter a lot. So one of the things that we're doubling down is, are we truly supporting managers, you know, at all levels to be able to sort of in fact support their team so that they can bring the best out of them and then have them feel included as part of the company.
因此，工作压力很大，你必须尽力去完成很多任务。但是，你的态度、你对管理者周围那5个员工的培养和支持在包容性方面，将非常重要。因此，我们正在加倍努力，确保我们真正支持所有层次的管理者，以便他们能够支持他们的团队，激发他们的最佳表现，并让他们感到作为公司的一部分是包容的。
So we've talked a lot about culture. Let's shift and talk a bit about strategy and particularly the cloud because today we sort of take the cloud for granted. But when you took over, it was still far from a sure thing. And you made this bold bet cementing Microsoft's strategy in the cloud. How did you rally others around that vision when many were convinced it wouldn't work?
我们已经谈了很多关于文化的问题。现在我们换一下话题，讨论一下策略，特别是云计算，因为今天我们似乎认为云计算理所当然。但是当你接手时，云计算离成功还有很长的路要走。你做了这个大胆的赌注，巩固了 Microsoft 在云计算领域的战略地位。在很多人认为这不会成功的情况下，你是如何团结其他人共同实现这个愿景的？
I mean, you know, our challenge with the cloud was very, very successful business in what was the client server era. And sort of you look at any PNL that says, oh, here is a new business. By the way, it's got gross margins that are sort of one fourth of this gross margins of the current business. Oh, and it'll be good. It's hard to sort of look at those kind of transitions because all rationality says that, you know, you should avoid it as much as possible. And except in tech in particular in many other businesses, these transitions are secular.
我的意思是，你知道，在客户端服务器时代，我们在云领域的挑战非常成功。如果你看到任何一个说，“噢，这是一个新业务。顺便说一下，它的毛利率只有当前业务的四分之一。哦，它会很好的。”的利润和损失表，这样的转变很难被接受，因为所有合理性都表明，你应该尽可能地避免它。然而，在科技以及其他许多行业中，这些转变是趋势性的。
They're inevitable. And so the question is, you know, how do you make that transition? And that's where I must say Steve, when he was a CEO, was the one who gave me permission. And the decision he made was, look, we've got to go after this. And one of the things that I've realized is leaders in many of you in your careers are going to make these kinds of decisions.
它们是不可避免的。那么问题就是，你要怎样进行这个过渡？在这方面我必须说，当史蒂夫担任首席执行官时，他给了我许可。他做出的决定是，我们必须去追求这个。我意识到的一件事是，作为领导者，许多人在你们的职业生涯中也会做出这些决策。
You, we're all about solving these over constrained problem, right? I mean, classic over constrained problem is, oh, you have a huge profit margin. And now you've got to go build a new business that sort of sort of replaces this business. And by the way, you should have the same gross profit margin. And guess what? It's not possible. So someone somewhere has to remove some constraint. Who does it? Leaders do it. And you remove the constraint called gross margin.
你们，我们都专注于解决这些过于约束的问题，对吧？我的意思是，典型的过于约束的问题是，哦，你有一个高额的利润率。现在你必须建立一个新的业务，有点类似地取代这个业务。而且，顺便说一句，你应该保持相同的毛利率。猜猜怎么着？这是不可能的。所以某个人必须去除一些约束。谁来做呢？领导者来做。你去除了被叫做毛利率的约束。
He said, go win this market. And that's what was then made it possible for us to do all those things that have now gotten us to the other side. But to me, I've learned a lot from that. So in fact, if anything, I feel like as a leader, sometimes, you know, you get to speak from both sides of the mouth, right? I need growth and I need profit. In many cases, your job as leaders is to, in fact, unconstrained. Take on the risk. In fact, in the first multiple years, Amy Hood, who's my CFO and myself, we said, look, let us take on the risk. And then actually metric a lot of our leaders more on customer satisfaction usage versus profit, revenue, even. And I think that that's sort of the type of decision making one needs in order to make these harsh transitions. And when you look back and you look at all that you've done on culture and strategy and making this bold bet, are you able to tell which one moved the needle more for Microsoft's renewal?
他说，去赢得这个市场。正是这个让我们能够做出了那些让我们成功的事情。但对我来说，我从中学到了很多。事实上，作为领导者，有时你要调整言辞。我需要增长，我需要利润。在很多情况下，作为领导者，你的职责就是担负风险。实际上，在最初的几年里，我的CFO艾米·胡德和我曾说过，让我们来承担这个风险。然后，我们实际上将很多领导者的指标更多地关注于客户满意度和使用率，而不是利润和收入。我认为，这种决策是做出这些艰难转变所需要的。当你回过头来看你在文化、策略和这个大胆的赌注上所做的一切时，你能够分辨出哪一个更有助于微软的更新吗？
I fundamentally believe that, you know, strategies or markets will always be coming and going. There'll be lots of changes. I'm a fundamental believer in that sense of purpose and culture as the two pillars that are necessary in order to get a lot of other things right. Of course, if you don't get your strategy right or your ability to sort of ride a particular wave of innovation, and especially in tech, it's pretty harsh, right? I mean, it's very hard to recover. But that said, though, the question is, what is it that will give you the best probability of even catching those? And to me, that sense of purpose, which I think is a reflection of what you're innately good at as an organization, right? It's comparative advantage, except it's codified in that identity. And culture is what allows you to express that identity with new opportunity.
我认为，战略和市场将会始终变化，充满了变数和挑战。在我看来，公司文化和目标是建立成功基石的两大支柱。当然，如果你的战略不正确或你无法适应某种创新浪潮，尤其是在科技领域，后果会十分严重，很难复原。但是，问题是什么能够让你即使在变化的环境中，也有最大的机会获取成功呢？对我来说，企业文化和目标是一个组织本质擅长表达的体现，它是相对优势，除了将它定义为身份外，我们还可以以全新的机会表达这个身份。
I think many of us in this room want to use our careers to create impact at scale, and you have committed almost 30 years to Microsoft, which seems unfathomable to many of us. How do you think about. Flies, by the way. How do you think about entrepreneurship and this idea for those among us who maybe want to work in large organizations to create change in the world? What advice would you have? I mean, I think that all organizations, smaller large, all have amazing opportunities, but I'll make the case for a large organization, and especially in organizations like Microsoft.
我认为我们这个房间的许多人都希望利用自己的职业去创造影响，而你已经在微软工作了近30年，这似乎对我们中的许多人来说都是无法想象的。你是如何思考创业和对于那些希望在大型组织中创造变革的人们的建议？顺便说一下，这里的苍蝇怎么看待？我认为所有的组织，无论大小，都有很好的机会，但我会为大型组织，特别是像微软这样的组织辩护。
I mean, think about it. If you want to have impact at scale, in fact, one of the reasons. There are two things. When I'm brand recruiter at a college, I'm always telling people, like, hey, look, if you want to be cool, go join somebody else, but if you want to make others cool, join Microsoft. And I say that because I believe that, you know, which other organization will be able to have, you know, 190 plus countries, the impact on small business productivity, public sector efficiency, multi-nationals in any part of the world, and their competitiveness globally, health outcomes, education outcomes. This is scale at, you know, enormous rate.
我的意思是，想想看。如果你想要大规模影响，实际上有两个原因。当我在一所大学招聘品牌人员时，我总是告诉人们，如果你想变得酷，去加入别人，但如果你想让别人变得酷，就加入微软。我这么说是因为我相信，你知道哪个其他组织能够在全球190多个国家产生影响，影响小企业生产率、公共部门效率、全球任何地方的跨国公司及其全球竞争力、健康结果、教育结果。这是巨大规模的影响。
And so therefore, if you want, join a company like this, but then you have to have the following, I would say, sensibility. Guess what? You got to work with others. In other words, that's, I think, a key important skill. Like, what does it mean? I mean, you do a lot of that. Many of you have got a lot of work experience even before coming to business school. But fundamentally, to do anything useful and big and at scale, it's all about teams. Teams inside or teams outside. That's what it takes.
如果你想加入这样的公司，就必须具备以下的敏感性。你需要与其他人合作。这是一项重要的技能。很多人在来商学院之前就已经具有很多工作经验了。但基本上，要做任何有用、大规模的事情，都需要团队的支持。无论是内部团队还是外部团队，这都是必须的。
And the second thing that you also need is to realize that, you know, a lot of people talk about the matrix and the complexity of large organizations. That's, again, the case. I mean, even for small companies, you just have a different type of matrix. You'll have a VC, you'll have a board, you'll have customers. So you're never going to escape working with people. You're never going to escape bringing multiple constituents together. And I think that you should pick whether whatever size of organization recognize that scale only comes because you're being able to bring many constituents together.
另外，你需要认识到的第二件事是，很多人谈论矩阵和大型组织的复杂性。这也是事实。即使是小公司，你也会有不同类型的矩阵。你会有风投、董事会、顾客等。所以你永远无法避免与人打交道，永远无法避免汇聚多方的利益。我认为，无论组织的规模是什么，你都应该明白规模只有在你能够将多方利益汇聚在一起时才会产生。
You say that we can never escape working with people, which brings me to my next section on AI. You are a big proponent of AI. And you believe that AI will be good for humankind. And you argue that in an AI future, human traits, like empathy and creativity, will be more important than ever. And yet, in some ways, technology has made us less connected. So how do you see AI augmenting humanity rather than detracting from it?
您说我们永远无法摆脱与人共事，这让我想到了我接下来关于人工智能的部分。您是人工智能的强烈支持者。您认为人工智能将对人类有益，并认为在人工智能的未来中，人类的特质，如同情心和创造力，将比以往任何时候都更加重要。然而，在某些方面，技术使我们的联系变得更少了。那么，您如何看待人工智能增强而不是削弱人类的发展？
First of all, I'm excited. I'm going to spend some time with your own work around this human-centered AI and the work you're doing there. I think it's so important.
首先，我感到兴奋。我将花费一些时间研究你关于这个以人为中心的人工智能和你在那里的工作。我认为这非常重要。
Here's how I come at it. First, before we get into some of the unintended consequences of AI, one of the areas that I am deeply involved in is accessibility. I mean, think about what AI has done to people who need the most help. Say if you have ALS, now with IGaze, you can type and communicate. If you have visual impairment of any sorts, you can interpret the world by using the latest in computer vision. If you have dyslexia, be using some machine reading and comprehension techniques. You can start teaching a middle school kid how to read, because reading then leads to their participation in our economy. So I would first say some AI and say AI capabilities are helping more of us participate fully in our societies and in our economies.
这是我的看法：首先，在谈到人工智能的一些意外后果之前，我一直致力于可访问性领域。想一想，人工智能给那些最需要帮助的人带来了什么。如果你患有渐冻症，现在通过“iGaze”你可以打字和交流。如果你有任何视力障碍，你可以通过最新的计算机视觉来解释世界。如果你有阅读障碍，通过一些机器阅读和理解技术，你可以开始教授一个中学生如何阅读，因为阅读随后会导致他们参与我们的经济活动。因此，我首先要说的是，某些人工智能和能力正在帮助我们更多地参与我们的社会和经济。
That doesn't mean we shouldn't be clearied about the consequences of AI. The first one is what are the ethics of AI? We as, in fact, creators of these platforms and tools have to even, before we even get to sort of the big topic of ethics, improve the state of the art of the software engineering around AI so that things like bias and so on are being dealt with. There's this fantastic line I love of RealCase, which is he talks about how the future enters in you and transforms itself in you before it becomes real. So we are creating AI. It's humans who are creating AI. So we get to shape what the craft of creation of AI looks like, how we design systems where the human is in loop. We get to decide that as a society even, what we are comfortable with and not comfortable with.
这并不意味着我们不应该明确人工智能的后果。第一个问题是：人工智能伦理学是什么？我们作为这些平台和工具的创造者，甚至在讨论伦理这个大话题之前，就必须改善人工智能软件工程的现状，解决偏见等问题。我非常喜欢RealCase（罗宾·斯隆）的一句话，他谈到，未来会进入你的身体并在你内部转化，直到变成现实。因此，我们正在创造人工智能，是人类在创造人工智能。所以我们可以塑造人工智能的创造工艺，设计人类介入的系统。我们甚至可以作为社会来决定我们对什么感到舒适和不舒适。
So I don't want to abdicate all of that and feel like this is just going to happen outside of our control. So that's at least how I think about it and also on the employment side. I do believe that, for example, I mean, you know, this, is it zero sum? I don't think that is the case. I think that there will be more jobs. The question is, how do we really use, in fact, all of the sort of levers we have, economic and social to skill people for the jobs that are going to be there and many of those skills might be different types of skills than the ones that are valued today. For example, there's no reason why our society can't have wage support for teachers in a different way in a world where there's a lot of abundance of AI doing a lot of other things for us or artists or what have you. Therefore, I think we will come up with mechanisms and, you know, I hope that we have, you know, in fact, more than hope, I feel that we shouldn't abdicate our responsibility to control our own future that I think we all want to live in.
我不想放弃所有的东西，觉得这一切会在我们控制之外发生。这至少是我考虑问题的方式，也是就就业方面而言的。我认为，例如，这是零和游戏吗？我不这么认为。我认为会有更多就业机会。问题是，我们如何使用我们拥有的经济和社会杠杆来为那些即将到来的工作技能人才，许多这些技能可能不同于当前所重视的技能。例如，在AI为我们做很多其他事情的世界中，我们的社会为教师提供工资支持的方式不应该不同，在艺术家或其他领域也是如此。因此，我认为我们会想出机制，我希望我们拥有的不仅仅是希望，而是我们不能放弃我们控制自己未来的责任，我认为我们都希望生活在其中。
And given Microsoft's vision to democratize AI, you know, there are concerns about what might happen if those tools get into the wrong hands. And you've just mentioned not to abdicate that sort of responsibility. So how do you think about who to partner with in light of those concerns? Right. I mean, there's multiple things. So what is it that we ourselves will do, in some sense, have some core principles that define what we do and then who we work with. You know, take facial recognition that's quickly becoming the topic which I think is going to even have regulatory frameworks around it in the state of Washington. We participated even in creation of that regulation.
考虑到微软推广人工智能的愿景，人们担心这些工具可能会落入不良人士手中。你刚才提到不应放弃这种责任。那么，在这些担忧下，你如何考虑与谁合作？嗯，有很多方面。首先是我们自己该做些什么，有一些核心原则定义了我们所做的事情和我们合作的对象。例如，面部识别正在迅速成为一个话题，我认为它甚至可能会拥有华盛顿州的监管框架。我们甚至参与了制定该法规。
So I think that first before we, you know, even the regulation is in place, we have guidelines on what we think is the right use because the maturity of the models really make it possible, you know, only sensible to use it in certain use cases and not in others. And then being clear about it and then ensuring that that's what we do. And then working, knowing that there will be like this food safety, there should be AI safety. I mean, there will be regulation. And we should be okay with it. In fact, if anything, our practices and our data of what's good, what's not, what's the state of technology should inform that regulation.
我认为，在制定规定之前，我们应该先制定指导方针，以确定我们认为人工智能的正确使用方式，因为模型的成熟程度使得它仅适用于某些用例，而不适用于其他用例。并要明确这一点，并确保我们这样做。我们知道，像食品安全一样，应当有人工智能安全。我意思是，会有规定。我们应该接受这一事实。实际上，如果有的话，我们的实践和数据应该为监管提供指导，以确定什么是好的，什么是不好的，技术处于什么状态。
So we have the topic of regulation and today it seems that relationships between regulators and many large tech companies are fraught. In its early days, Microsoft may have fought its own battles, but today Microsoft is leading with openness. And so what's your advice for the aspiring tech leaders here on balancing that pressure to grow as a company with your responsibility to society? That's an interesting question. Yes, here's what I at least learned. In fact, Brad Smith, who is another colleague of mine who recently wrote a book called Tools and Reppens. He reflects because he was very much part. He worked with Bill. He worked with Steve. And now he works with me very much part of our own struggle.
我们现在要谈论监管的话题。如今，监管机构与许多大型科技公司之间的关系十分紧张。微软早期可能曾经历过自己的斗争，但如今微软以开放性带头。那么，您对于渴望成为科技领袖的人在平衡公司增长压力和对社会的责任方面有什么建议呢？这是个有趣的问题。至少我的建议是这样的。事实上，我的另一位同事布拉德·史密斯最近写了一本名为《工具与手段》的书，他反思的原因是他深深地参与了我们自己的斗争。他曾与比尔·盖茨和史蒂夫·乔布斯一起工作，现在他与我一起工作，是我们团队的一员。
I would say the one thing that we at least I took away from that time is when there is, I would say a lot of criticism of whatever it is that you're doing. I think it's appropriate for us to look in the mirror and perhaps learn about what it is that we're being criticized about. And perhaps there are changes that we need to actually bring about. So I would say scrutiny of large organizations is absolutely something that is going to only happen.
我认为我们至少从那段时间中学到的一件事情就是，当针对你所做的任何事情有大量批评时，我们应该自我反省并学习被批评的原因。也许我们需要做出一些改变。因此，对于大型组织的审查是绝对必要的，并且只会越来越多。
And I think large organizations should welcome it. And we all can learn from it. And the core though, especially in technology business, we collectively as an industry have to just mature and mature at a very fast rate because the impact of digital technology in our lives and in our society is so deep now that for us to assume that we're just going to have unfettered access to all parts without thinking about the unintended consequences of this technology are long gone. And so therefore for us as an industry, for us as a company to both recognize the opportunity of these technologies and the responsibilities whether it's in security, whether it's in privacy, whether it's in AI and ethics, I think is going to be central.
我认为大型组织应该欢迎数字技术的发展，并且我们都可以从中学到一些东西。然而，在技术行业中，我们必须以非常快的速度集体成熟，因为数字技术对我们的生活和社会的影响已经非常深远了。对于我们来说，假设我们可以毫无限制地访问所有部分而不考虑该技术的意外后果已经不可能。因此，对于我们这个行业，对于我们的公司来说，认识到这些技术所提供的机会和责任（无论是在安全、隐私、人工智能和道德方面）将会是至关重要的。
And these are not going to be terms of competition even. I think this is where the industry at scale has to get a lot better. And I think that that moment is upon us and I do see positive change. But it is definitely a time for self-reflection and change. So I want to circle back to your own leadership style and values. And what strikes me is that you seem to combine this sense of self and ability to stay true to your leadership style. You even have a story of Steve Barma telling you it's too late to be different.
即使这些并不是竞争条件。我认为这是产业规模必须更好的地方。我认为那个时刻已经到来了，我看到了积极的变化。但这肯定是一个自我反思和改变的时代。所以我想回到你自己的领导风格和价值观。引起我的注意的是，你似乎将自我感觉和保持真正的领导风格的能力融合在了一起。你甚至有一个史蒂夫·巴尔玛告诉你太晚改变的故事。
With on the other hand, this real belief in a growth mindset. And I think for many of us at the GSB, there's this question of how do you stay true to your own style while still knowing when and how to grow in the right direction. And so how do you think about those two things?
另一方面，这是真正相信成长心态的。对于我们G SB的许多人来说，存在着这样的问题：如何在保持自己的风格的同时，知道何时何如朝着正确方向成长。因此，你如何思考这两个问题？
I mean, yeah, I mean, I think the ability to understand yourself is actually it's a lifetimes journey, right? It's a journey of your lifetime to really unpack who you are and what you're good at, what makes you take, what are your passions? Is something that what makes you happy? The question that my mother asked me all the time and in fact the more the older I get, the clearer I am in understanding even what she was asking. And then to be able to understand others, that's also another journey of a lifetime, right?
我的意思是，嗯，我觉得理解自己的能力实际上是一生的旅程，对吧？真正解开你是谁、你擅长什么、你喜欢什么、什么使你快乐的谜团，需要你一生的努力去揭开。这是我母亲一直问我的问题，随着我年龄的增长，我越来越清楚她当初问的是什么。此外，理解别人也是另一个终身旅程，对吧？
Which is you sort of feel like you understand what others are saying. You understand where they're coming from. I think that's really what is going to perhaps help you with both be true to yourself, your identity, what makes you take, what makes you happy. While knowing that ultimately I think a lot of that satisfaction you get is because of your ability to empathize the ability, it could be your family, it could be your workplace. That's the other thing that I've come to realize it can be transactional at work.
这意味着你有一种理解他人言论的感觉。你理解他们的观点。我认为这很可能会帮助你保持真实的自我、身份认同、令你感到欣慰的事情。同时，你也知道，最终获得满足感的其中很多都是因为你具有共情的能力，这可能是和你的家庭有关，也可能是和你的工作场所有关。另一个我意识到的事情是，这在工作中也可以成为一种交易。
I will tell you there was this gentleman and another GSB grad whom I worked for, Doug Burgham, who's actually the governor of North Dakota nowadays. But there was this time, you know, in my mid 30s, he said something to me which just had a profound impact. He said, look, you're going to work at Microsoft more time than you were going to even spend with your kids. And I said, oh wow, that sounds pretty harsh. And yet it is true. And his main point was you better think about work having deeper meaning than being transactional. And as I've thought about that, the only way it's not going to be transactional is when you relate to people you work with.
我曾经为一个绅士和另一个GSB毕业生Doug Burgham工作过，他现在是北达科他州州长。但有一次，当我年过三十时，他对我说了一句话，对我产生了深刻的影响。他说，你在微软工作的时间会比你和孩子们在一起的时间还要长。我说，哇，听起来挺严厉的。但这是真的。他的主要观点是，你最好考虑下工作对你有更深层次的意义，不只是一种交易。我考虑了一下，只有当你与你所工作的人建立起联系时，工作才会不是单纯的交易。
And that's what you'll remember. The projects you worked on, the technologies will all be passé in time. But the people, what you did, how you behave, what was your, you know, I take great pride in these people who might have mentored or go on to do great things. That's the relationship that I think you seek out while being truly yourself and what makes you happy. And you mentioned humility earlier and how important it is to you. And you have this quote that says when everyone is celebrating you is when you should be most scared.
这就是你会记住的。你所做过的项目和所使用的技术，都会随着时间的推移而逐渐过时。但是那些人，以及你的行为和价值观却会一直存在。我为那些我指导过或成就了伟大事业的人感到自豪。这就是我认为你应该追求的人际关系，做真正的自己并找到让你快乐的事情。你之前提到了谦卑的重要性，这个你有一句经典的名言：“当所有人都在庆祝你的时候，你应该最害怕。”
And I think it's safe to say that people are celebrating Microsoft's renewal. So how do you keep yourself and your teams grounded among this success? That's a great question. You know, there's this book I recently read by David Brooks called The Second Mountain. It's a interesting book because he talks about it mostly in the context of us.
我认为可以说人们正在庆祝微软的复兴。那么在这个成功中，你们如何让自己和团队保持脚踏实地的态度呢？这是一个好问题。你知道，我最近读过一本大卫·布鲁克斯写的书，叫做《第二座山》。这是一本有趣的书，因为他主要在我们生活的背景下讨论它。
You know, there's that first mountain, which is what perhaps many of you as graduates of GSB are going to be on and you're going to seek excellence and success in the professional career. And then you're eventually going to get to that second mountain and then you're going to sort of in his words relate to the world and community and what have you. And I feel that that's really what's there for Microsoft. The way, you know, having gotten to whatever high market cap in 98.
你知道，有第一个山峰，可能你作为斯坦福商学院的毕业生将会在上面追求专业职业的卓越和成功。然后你最终会到达第二座山峰，并且在他的话中，与世界和社会建立联系。我认为这就是微软的道路。你知道，微软在1998年市值很高。
Now for us, it's more not our market cap, but what is our market cap leading to to your point, it's if you celebrate our success, but real, but fundamentally realize if you sort of go back to our mission and our business model, right? It's not even a sense of mission and purpose that somehow abstracted away from what's core driving our business model. We need to see success all around us. That's it. And so if we celebrate that small business in Kenya or that large multinational in Sweden or that public sector company in Indonesia or in Vietnam, that's what's going to help us. Be grounded and be successful. And so that invoking of that every day sense of purpose is what I think is going to help us the most. Thank you, Sacha. And I think on that note, we will turn it over to some questions from the audience.
对于我们来说，重要的不仅仅是市值，更重要的是我们的市值会带来什么。如果你庆祝我们的成功，真正的成功是在回到我们的使命和商业模式，并意识到这些是核心驱动力。我们需要看到身边的成功，这才是最重要的。因此，如果我们庆祝肯尼亚的小企业、瑞典的大型跨国公司或印尼或越南的公共部门公司的成功，这将帮助我们实现脚踏实地的成功。每天唤起那种目标感是我认为最有帮助的。谢谢，Sacha。我想，在此基础上，我们将转向听众的提问。
Hi, my name is Tara Carrad-Pierre and I'm a first year MBA student and I'm asking this question in conjunction with my classmate Jeff Kruger who unfortunately couldn't be here, but we're both interested. You've mentioned that at Microsoft, you've made a principal decision that you're not going to withhold technologies from institutions that have been elected in democracies to protect the freedoms we enjoy. This position, as you probably know, stands in contrast to a number of your peer tech companies here in the Valley. Can you elaborate on your decision framework as CEO to have Microsoft pursue US Department of Defense contracts like the Jedi Cloud Project at DOD?
大家好，我叫塔拉·卡拉德-皮埃尔，是一名一年级的MBA学生。我和我的同学杰夫·克鲁格一起提出了这个问题，他无法在现场参加。我们都很感兴趣。您提到在微软，您已经作出了一个原则性决定，即不会向被选为维护我们享有的自由的民主国家的机构保留技术。如您所知，这个立场与谷歌等许多同行科技公司有所不同。作为CEO，您的决策框架是什么，使微软参与美国国防部像Jedi Cloud Project这样的合同？
Well, first of all, you know, one of the things that we're engaged in is with deep respect for all opinions that people may have on things that we should be concerned about. But on this one, we've been very clear from day one on the statement you read out, which is I feel that I have great belief in our democratic institutions and our democratic process. And big fears is that somehow CEOs or corporations try and substitute for what I think in the long run is the most important thing for us, which is our democracy to work as design.
首先，我们非常尊重人们对我们关心的事情所持有的各种不同意见。但是在这个问题上，我们从一开始就非常明确地表达了自己的观点，即我坚信我们的民主制度和民主进程。我的一个巨大的担忧是，CEO或公司可能试图替代我认为最重要的事情，那就是我们的民主制度能够按照设计发挥作用。
And in this case, if we don't like what our government does, we have this one great opportunity, which is we get to change, we get to vote. We get to even take principal stance against our government if we do think that that is something that we want to fight for. And in fact, Microsoft, whether it's on the previous administration or this administration, we've had cases, you know, the warrant case or on privacy is something that we were able to go fight. And then ultimately through the Cloud Act, bring about change, which was a bipartisan legislation, which I feel is a good step in the direction of having privacy and shrine in a legislative sort of set of processes.
在这种情况下，如果我们不喜欢政府所做的事情，我们有一个重要机会，即我们有权进行改变，我们有权投票。如果我们认为这是值得为之奋斗的，我们甚至可以采取原则性立场反对我们的政府。实际上，无论是在前一届政府还是这届政府，微软都有案例，比如授权案或隐私议题，我们都能够进行斗争。最终借助“云法案”的实施，带来了改变，这是一项跨党派立法，我认为这是向将隐私放在立法程序中的良好迈进。
So that's how I look at it. I don't see how withholding technology from, as I said, the institutions that we have elected that are subject to civil in control ultimately to protect the freedoms we enjoy is going to help. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have ethical principles, we shouldn't advocate for ethical principles. And in fact, these institutions that we're talking about have perhaps a more of a history around these ethical principles as well. And so for us to rely on that and reinforce that, I think would be important.
这就是我所看待它的方式。我不认为拒绝向我们所选举的机构提供技术，这些机构受到民事控制，最终是为了保护我们享有的自由，会有助于解决问题。这并不意味着我们不应该有道德原则，不应该倡导道德原则。事实上，我们所谈论的这些机构可能在这些道德原则方面有更多的历史。因此，我们依靠并加强这一点，我认为非常重要。
Hi, I'm Prishan. I'm from Hyderabad. The second year MBA student. So my question is today, if you were a 20 year old engineering graduate from India, would you stay back in India and work in the tech and startup ecosystem or would you come to the US and why? And if you come to the US, how can we all think of contributing back to our home country?
大家好，我叫Prishan。我来自海德拉巴。我是一名二年级的MBA学生。所以我今天的问题是，如果你是一名来自印度的20岁工程学毕业生，你会留在印度，在技术和创业生态系统中工作，还是来美国？为什么？如果你来到美国，我们如何考虑为我们的祖国做出贡献呢？
Yeah, I know it. It's an interesting one. I mean, I really literally growing up, never thought I'd ever go outside of Hyderabad. I would say very self-satisfying sort of goals in life. I wanted to play cricket and work for a bank. And things changed.
是的，我知道这个。它很有趣。我的意思是，我真的从小到大，从未想过离开海德拉巴。我想说，生活中有一些非常自我满足的目标。我想打板球并在银行工作。事情发生了变化。
Look, I feel that the opportunity, whether it's in India or rest of Asia or in Africa, one of the we just created two development centers in Africa, both on the west and the east side of, you know, close to Africa. There is great opportunity. There's great talent. I think digital technology in particular is a real democratizing force.
我觉得机会不论在印度、亚洲其他国家、还是非洲，它们都存在。我们在非洲刚刚创建了两个开发中心，一个在西非，一个在东非，都靠近非洲地区。这里有巨大的机会和才华。我认为数字技术特别是一种真正的民主力量。
We were talking even backstage about how even when the rest of the infrastructure is challenged, there is very novel ways for digital technology to overcome some of those things because of the most malleable nature of software in some sense. I think there's opportunity everywhere in the world. But at the same time, for you to come here, learn from, you know, learn in a place like the GSB and be inspired and go back is an opportunity I would take if that sort of came about.
在后台，我们甚至谈论了即使其余的基础设施受到挑战，数字技术仍有非常新颖的方式来克服其中的一些问题，因为软件在某种意义上具有最可塑性。我认为世界上到处都有机会。但与此同时，如果您有机会来到这里，在GSB学习并从中受到启发，然后回去，那是我愿意接受的机会。
But at the same time, it doesn't mean that that's the only opportunity ahead to have impact. You know, it's interesting. You bring up because globalization, let's face it, is going through a little bit of a challenging face. And I think that it's deserved in some sense because the globalization was celebrated to a point where the inequities that were getting founded, I guess, or inequities that developed in local communities were not addressed. Whatever happens in this next phase of globalization will not only in fact help that grand convergence of opportunity all over the world, which was, by the way, a very good thing in that first phase of globalization. But also address the local inequities, whether it's in India or in Polo Alto. I think that that's what I think is needed, whereas there is real innovation that brings equitable growth everywhere. Is perhaps the opportunity for GSB grads in 2019?
但同时，这并不意味着这是唯一一个有影响力的机会。你知道，很有意思。因为全球化，面对现实，正在经历一些困难的时期。我认为，在某种程度上这是应该的，因为全球化被庆祝到了一定程度，地方社区发生的不公平现象并没有得到解决。无论在印度还是在Polo Alto，下一阶段的全球化将不仅促进全球机会的大汇聚，这在第一阶段的全球化中是非常好的事情，同时也能够解决当地的不公正现象。我认为，这就是需要的，通过真正的创新实现公平的增长。也许这是2019年GSB毕业生的机会？
This is for Hello. Hi, I'm Casey Lohan-Hoot and MBA too. I also worked at Microsoft before I came here. I think I might be the only one. Thanks. That's great. I was just wondering in your rise to the top, what was the biggest adjustment you made to your leadership style as you moved up in the company? You know, it's interesting. I must say there's many, many dimensions. Perhaps the biggest adjustment was that ability to grapple with what is it that uniquely only you can do versus what others in the team can do, getting much better at it was the most helpful.
这是给大家打招呼的。嗨，我是Casey Lohan-Hoot，也是一个MBA。在来这里之前，我在微软工作过。我想我可能是唯一一个来自微软的人。谢谢。太好了。我只是想问一下，在你升职过程中，你做出的最大领导风格调整是什么？你知道，有趣的是，有很多很多方面。也许最大的调整是能够应对你独特能力与其他团队成员的能力之间的区别，并在这方面变得更好。
But the CEO job, when I look back at it, and many of you who may start out and become even CEO's much earlier on in your career, I had not understood perhaps even growing up at Microsoft how multi-constituent the job is, right? I mean, that's perhaps the biggest adjustment I've had to make is recognizing it's about customers, it's about partners, it's about all your employees, it's about your investors, it's about governments, it's about many, many, many of these constituents. And by the way, it's not about, like, well, you know, it's not like office hours for each one of them. It is about all of them, all the time. And how to think about that multi-constituent world, I think is perhaps the biggest adjustment that one makes as you grow in any organization. And the faster you grapple with it, the better off you will be and your organization will be.
回头看我的CEO工作，以及许多可能会更早成为CEO的人，我以前并没有意识到这项工作是如此多方面的。可能最大的改变是要认识到这一工作涉及到客户、合作伙伴、所有员工、投资者、政府等众多利益相关方。而且，这并不是像分配办公时间那样简单的事情，而是需要始终关注各方的利益。如何思考这个多元化的世界，我认为这是任何组织内成长过程中需要做出的最大调整。而且，你越早适应这一点，你和你的组织就越好。
So we'll now turn it back to our traditional lightning round. And I'll wait a, don't be scared. We're changing it up a little bit this time, I'm gonna ask you to complete a few sentences for me. So I feel most energized when? I see someone very excited about the impact of what they're doing. What keeps me up at night is? What rakes me up in the morning. Okay. Good, good, good, good dodge there. I am most grateful for. The, the sense of, the love, the affection of people that I've had the good fortune, whether it's my family, whether it's the people I've come across at work, the organizations that I'm involved in, it's just such a blessing.
现在我们回到传统的闪电回合。别害怕，我们这次换一种方式，我会请你为我完成几个句子。我觉得最有活力的时候是？当我看到有人对他们正在做的事情的影响非常兴奋时。让我夜不能寐的是什么？什么让我早上清醒。好的，很好，很好，很好的回避。我最感激的是？那种感觉，我很幸运拥有家人，同事，和我参与的组织的人们的爱和感情，这是一种祝福。
When I look back, that's the thing that sort of really I'm most thankful for, the people in my life in all spheres of it. The most important piece of advice I could leave this audience with is? Is the piece of advice that Steve Barmer gave me when I became CEO, be bold and be right? Which is if you're not bold, you're not going to do much of anything, and if you're not right, you won't be there. Sathya, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.
回顾我的人生，我最感激的就是生命中所有领域的人们。我最想向观众们传达的最重要的建议是什么呢？就是 Steve Barmer 成为 CEO 后给我的建议，就是要勇敢并且正确。如果你不勇敢，你什么也做不了；如果你不正确，你也不会成功。Sathya，非常感谢你。这真是一次愉快的经历。谢谢你。