Dr. Wendy Suzuki: Boost Attention & Memory with Science-Based Tools | Huberman Lab Podcast #73
发布时间 2022-05-23 12:00:01 来源
Welcome to the Huberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. Today my guest is Dr. Wendy Suzuki. Dr. Suzuki is a professor of neuroscience and psychology at New York University and one of the leading researchers in the area of learning and memory. Her laboratory has contributed mental textbook understanding of how brain areas such as the hippocampus, which you will learn about today, how the hippocampus and related brain circuits allow us to take certain experiences and commit them to memory so that we can use that information in the future.
欢迎收听Huberman实验室播客，我们在这里讨论科学以及与日常生活相关的科学工具。我是Andrew Huberman，斯坦福医学院的神经生物学和眼科学教授。今天，我的嘉宾是Wendy Suzuki博士。Suzuki博士是纽约大学的神经科学与心理学教授，也是学习和记忆领域的领先研究者之一。她的实验室为教科书式的脑科学知识贡献了大量研究，尤其是关于大脑区域如海马体的知识。您将在今天的节目中了解到，海马体和相关的大脑回路如何帮助我们将某些经历转化为记忆，以便我们在未来能够使用这些信息。
Dr. Suzuki is also an expert public educator in the realm of science. A few years back, she had a TED talk that essentially went viral. If you haven't seen it already, you should absolutely check it out. In which she describes her experience using exercise as a way to enhance learning and memory. And on the basis of that personal experience, she reshaped her laboratory to explore how things like meditation, exercise, and other things that we can do with our physiology and our psychology can allow us to learn faster, to commit things to memory longer, and indeed to reshape our cognitive performance in a variety of settings.
铃木博士也是一位科学领域的优秀公共教育者。几年前，她的一场TED演讲几乎引爆了网络。如果你还没看过，绝对应该去看看。在演讲中，她讲述了自己通过锻炼来增强学习和记忆的经历。基于这一个人经验，她重新调整了自己的实验室，开始研究冥想、锻炼以及其他我们可以通过生理和心理来进行的活动，来帮助我们更快地学习、更长时间地记住知识，并在多种环境下重新塑造我们的认知表现。
As such, I am delighted to announce that Dr. Suzuki is now not only running a laboratory at New York University, but she is the incoming dean of arts and science at New York University. And of course, she was selected for that role for her many talents. But one of the important aspects of her program, she tells me, is going to be to incorporate the incredible power of exercise, meditation, and other behavioral practices for enhancing learning, for improving stress management, and other things to optimize student performance.
因此，我很高兴地宣布，铃木博士现在不仅在纽约大学管理一个实验室，她还即将成为纽约大学文理学院的院长。她被选中担任这个角色当然是因为她的多才多艺。而她计划中的一个重要方面，她告诉我，将是整合运动、冥想和其他行为练习的巨大力量，以增强学习能力、改善压力管理等，从而优化学生的表现。
Today, you are going to get access to much of that information so that you can apply those tools in your daily life as well. Dr. Suzuki is also an author of several important books. The most recent one is entitled Good Anxiety, harnessing the power of the most misunderstood emotion. And a previous book entitled Healthy Brain Happy Life, a personal program to activate your brain and do everything better. And while that is admittedly a very pop science type title, I will remind you that she is one of the preeminent memory researchers in the world and has been for quite a while.
今天，你将会获得大量信息，以便将这些工具应用到日常生活中。此外，铃木博士还是多本重要书籍的作者。她的最新作品名为《良性焦虑：驾驭最被误解的情感力量》。她之前的一本书《健康大脑 幸福生活》是一项激活大脑、提升生活的个人计划。虽然这个书名充满流行科学的色彩，但我要提醒你，她是世界上首屈一指的记忆研究专家，并且已经从事这项研究很长时间。
So the information that you'll glean from those books is both rich in depth and breath and is highly applicable. By the end of today's discussion, you will have learned from Dr. Suzuki, a large amount of knowledge about how memories are formed, how they are lost, and you will have a much larger kit of tools to apply for your efforts to learn better, to remember better, and to apply that information in the ways that best serve you.
从这些书中你获取的信息，无论是深度还是广度都非常丰富，并且具有很高的实用性。在今天的讨论结束时，你将从铃木博士那里学到大量关于记忆如何形成和丢失的知识，同时你还将拥有一套更丰富的工具，用于提高你的学习能力，增强记忆，以及更有效地将这些信息应用于最有利于你的方式。
Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is Athletic Greens.
在我们开始之前，我想强调一下，这个播客与我在斯坦福的教学和研究工作是分开的。它是我希望将关于科学和科学相关工具的信息免费带给大众的一部分努力。为了与这个主题保持一致，我想感谢今天播客的赞助商。我们的第一个赞助商是Athletic Greens。
Athletic Greens is an all-in-one vitamin mineral probiotic drink. I've been taking Athletic Greens since 2012, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast. The reason I started taking Athletic Greens and the reason I still take Athletic Greens once or twice a day is that it meets all my foundational vitamin mineral and probiotic needs. In fact, whenever people ask me if I were to only take one supplement, which supplement should I take? I tell them Athletic Greens.
Athletic Greens 是一种全合一的维生素、矿物质和益生菌饮品。我从 2012 年开始就一直在服用 Athletic Greens，所以我很高兴他们赞助了这个播客。我开始服用 Athletic Greens 的原因以及至今仍然每天服用一到两次的原因是，它满足了我所有基础的维生素、矿物质和益生菌需求。实际上，每当有人问我，如果只能选择一种保健品的话，该选择哪一种时，我都会推荐 Athletic Greens。
For the simple reason that it covers your base of vitamins, minerals, and probiotics. It also has important adaptogens, digestive enzymes for gut health. All of this is very important because we now know that gut health and the so-called gut brain axis is very important for things like mood and brain function, and also contributes to immune system function. Athletic Greens, you're covering all those bases, and of course you need to eat nutrition and healthy diet that's right for you.
这一切都很重要，因为我们现在知道肠道健康和所谓的肠脑轴对情绪、脑功能等方面非常重要，同时也有助于免疫系统的功能。饮食和保持个人健康的饮食同样重要。
By taking Athletic Greens once or twice a day, you can be sure that there are going to be no gaps or deficiencies in your vitamin mineral or probiotic needs. I mix mine with water and a little bit of lemon juice or lime juice. I personally find it delicious. If you'd like to try Athletic Greens, you can go to AthleticGreens.com slash Huberman to claim a special offer. They'll give you five free travel packs. Plus a year supply of vitamin D3 K2, both of which are also vital for immediate and long-term health.
通过每天饮用一到两次Athletic Greens，您可以确保不会在维生素、矿物质或益生菌方面出现缺口或不足。我通常会把它与水和一点柠檬汁或酸橙汁混合在一起。我个人觉得它很好喝。如果您想尝试Athletic Greens，可以访问AthleticGreens.com/Huberman，领取一个特别优惠。他们会赠送您五个免费旅行装包，以及一年的维生素D3和K2，这两者对即时和长期健康也至关重要。
So once again, if you go to AthleticGreens.com slash Huberman, you can get a special offer of five free travel packs to make it easy to mix up Athletic Greens while you're in the car or otherwise traveling. Plus they'll give you the year supply of vitamin D3 K2.
所以再说一遍，如果你访问 AthleticGreens.com 并使用 Huberman 的专属链接，你可以获得一个特别优惠：五包免费旅行装，方便你在开车或旅行时混合饮用 Athletic Greens。此外，他们还会提供一年的维生素 D3 K2 供应。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Inside Tracker. Inside Tracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals. I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done. For the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long-term health can only be analyzed from a quality blood test.
今天的节目也由 Inside Tracker 赞助。Inside Tracker 是一个个性化的营养平台，它通过分析你的血液和 DNA 数据，帮助你更好地了解自己的身体，从而实现健康目标。我一直相信定期进行血液检查的重要性。因为有很多影响你即时和长期健康的因素，只能通过高质量的血液检测来分析。
And nowadays, with the advent of modern DNA tests, you can also get insight into, for instance, what your biological age is and compare that to your chronological age. And of course, your biological age is the number that really matters. With Inside Tracker, there's a distinct advantage. And the advantage is that while there are many blood tests and DNA tests out there, Inside Tracker's blood and DNA tests come also with a platform, meaning a website platform that allows you to see exactly what you could or should do in order to adjust the numbers on things like hormone levels, metabolic factors, and lipids and so on.
翻译成中文：
现如今，随着现代DNA检测的出现，你还可以了解，比如你的生物年龄是多少，然后将其与你的实际年龄进行比较。当然，生物年龄才是真正重要的数字。使用Inside Tracker有明显的优势。这个优势是，尽管市面上有很多血液测试和DNA测试，Inside Tracker的血液和DNA测试还配有一个平台，即一个网站平台，可以让你准确了解为了调整激素水平、代谢因素和脂类等数据，你可以或应该做些什么。
It's a little pop-up window that points to nutritional supplementation and behavioral regimens that you can take in order to put those numbers in the ranges that are optimal for you. If you'd like to try Inside Tracker, you can visit Inside Tracker.com slash Huberman to get 20% off any of Inside Tracker's plans. That's Inside Tracker.com slash Huberman to get 20% off.
这是一款小弹窗，提示你可以采用哪些营养补充和行为计划，以将这些数值调整到对你来说最理想的范围。如果你想尝试Inside Tracker，可以访问InsideTracker.com/Huberman获取Inside Tracker所有计划的八折优惠。记得去InsideTracker.com/Huberman享受八折优惠哦。
Today's episode is also brought to us by Blinkist. Blinkist is an app that has thousands of nonfiction books, each condensed down to just 15 minutes of key takeaways for those books. I love reading books from front to back. I like the actual physical book. I'm sort of old-fashioned in that way. And I do also listen to audio books. It's very rare that I don't finish a book that I've started.
今天的节目也由 Blinkist 赞助。Blinkist 是一款应用程序，它将成千上万本非虚构类书籍浓缩为每本书15分钟的关键内容。我喜欢从头到尾阅读书籍，更喜欢实际拿在手里的纸质书。我在这方面有点老派。我也听有声书。我很少有没读完就放下的书。
Nonetheless, I like to revisit some of my favorite books. I also like to write down key takeaways from those books. Sometimes even before I listen to the full length book. So I don't mind spoiling the takeaways because when I read nonfiction, generally I'm trying to extract the most valuable knowledge from them. So I'll often listen to a Blinkist 15-minute version, then the full length book or sometimes the full length book, and then the Blinkist 15-minute version.
尽管如此，我还是喜欢重温一些我最喜欢的书。我也喜欢把那些书中的重要收获写下来。有时候我甚至在听完整本书之前就这样做。所以我不介意提前知道其中的要点，因为在读非虚构类书籍时，我通常是想从中提取出最有价值的知识。因此，我常常先听Blinkist的15分钟简要版，然后再听全本书，或者先听全本书，然后再听Blinkist的15分钟简要版。
Either way, Blinkist is a great way to get through any book and to extract the best from those books. I've used it for, for instance, Matt Walker's Why We Sleep, an excellent book on Why We Sleep, as well as Tim Ferriss's The Four-Hour Body, and the Seam Tillabes, the Black Swan, and so on and so on. With Blinkist, you get unlimited access to read or listen to a massive library of nonfiction books. It really is a treasure trove of information.
无论如何，Blinkist都是快速阅读和提取书籍精华的绝佳工具。我使用它阅读了一些书，比如马特·沃克的《为什么我们要睡觉》——这是一本关于睡眠的优秀书籍，还有蒂姆·费里斯的《四小时身材》和纳西姆·塔勒布的《黑天鹅》等等。通过Blinkist，您可以无限制地阅读或收听海量的非虚构类书籍。这真是一个信息的宝库。
Right now, Blinkist has a special offer just for Hubertman Lab podcast listeners. If you go to Blinkist.com slash Hubertman, you can get a free seven-day trial and 25% off a Blinkist Premium membership. Once again, go to Blinkist.com slash Hubertman to get a seven-day free trial and 25% off.
现在，Blinkist为Hubertman Lab播客的听众提供特别优惠。如果你访问Blinkist.com并输入Hubertman，可以免费试用七天，并享受Blinkist高级会员25%的折扣。再次提醒，访问Blinkist.com并输入Hubertman，即可获得七天免费试用和25%的优惠折扣。
And now, for my discussion with Dr. Wendy Suzuki. Wendy, great to see you again and to have you here. It's been a little while. It's been a while. It's so great to be here, Andrew. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, delighted. I'd like to start off by talking about memory generally.
现在，我将与温迪·铃木博士进行讨论。温迪，很高兴再次见到你，且欢迎你来到这里。我们已经有一段时间没见了。是的，好久不见。很高兴来到这里，安德鲁，非常感谢你邀请我。是啊，真高兴。这次我想先从一般性的记忆谈起。
And then I'd love to chat about your incredible work, discovering how exercise and memory interface and what people can do to improve their memory and brain function generally. Yes. But for those that are not familiar, you could just step us through the basic elements of memory, a few brain structures perhaps.
然后，我很想聊聊你在探寻运动与记忆之间关系方面做出的出色工作，以及人们如何改善记忆力和大脑功能。当然了。但对于那些不太了解的人，你能不能给我们讲解一下记忆的基本要素，或者介绍几个大脑结构呢？
Sure. You know, what happens when I, for instance, this mug of tea is pretty unremarkable. But the fact that now I've talked about it, I don't know that I'll ever forget about it. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. So what happens when I look at this mug and decide that it's something special for whatever reason?
好的，当我看着这杯茶的时候，它看起来并没有什么特别之处。但现在因为我谈到了它，我可能永远不会忘记它了，也有可能会忘记。那么，当我出于某种原因把这杯子看作特别的东西时，会发生什么呢？
Yeah. Well, I like to see there are four things that make things memorable. Number one is novelty. If it's something new, the very first thing, the very first time we've seen something or experienced something, our brains are drawn to that, our attentional systems draw us to that. And when you are paying attention to something, that's part of what makes things memorable.
好的。我认为有四个因素能让事情难以忘怀。首先是新奇感。第一次看到或体验某件事情时，我们的大脑会被它吸引，我们的注意系统会引导我们关注它。当你专注于某件事情时，这有助于让它变得难以忘记。
Second is repetition. If you see that cup of tea every single day and every single time you do an interview, you talk about your cup of tea, you're going to remember it. That's just how our brains work, repetition works. Third is association. So if you meet somebody new that knows lots of people that you know.
第二点是重复。当你每天看到那杯茶，并且每次接受采访时都谈论你的那杯茶时，你会记住它。这就是我们的思维方式，重复是有效的。第三点是联想。如果你遇到一个认识很多你认识的人的新朋友。
So you and I share many, many, many, many people that we both know. It's easy to remember, it's easier to remember you, especially if you were somebody new that I hadn't met before. We have met before. So association. And then the fourth one is emotional resonance. So we remember the happiest and the saddest moments of our lives. And that also includes, you know, funny, surprising things. That is the interaction between two key brain structures, the amygdala, which is important for processing lots of emotional, particularly threatening kinds of situations. But those threatening, surprising kinds of situations, the amygdala takes that information and makes another key structure called the hippocampus work better to put new long term memories in your brain. So that in fact is the key structure for long term memory, the structure called the hippocampus. Fantastic. So novelty, repetition, association, and emotional resonance.
所以你和我之间有很多很多共同认识的人。这让记忆变得简单，特别是如果你是一个我以前不认识的新朋友时，更容易记住。当然，我们确实见过面。这就是联想。第四个因素是情感共鸣。我们会记住生命中最快乐和最悲伤的时刻，也包括一些有趣和惊讶的事情。这涉及到大脑中两个关键结构的相互作用：杏仁核和海马体。杏仁核对于处理许多情感，尤其是威胁性情境很重要。在那些威胁性和令人惊讶的情况下，杏仁核会处理信息，使得另一个关键结构，即海马体，更好地工作，从而在大脑中形成新的长期记忆。实际上，海马体是长期记忆的关键结构。总结一下，记忆的形成离不开新奇、重复、联想和情感共鸣。
Yes. You can tell us a bit more about the hippocampus. I think at least for my generation, while I'm a neuroscientist, but for most people in my generation, I think they first heard about the hippocampus from the movie Memento. Oh yeah. Where the eye says hippocampus. Yeah. For those of you that haven't seen that movie, it's a bizarrely constructed movie, but an interesting one nonetheless about memory. But even as a neuroscientist, sometimes I'm perplexed at how the hippocampus works. Maybe if you would step us through what this structure is, what it looks like, maybe a few of its subregions, because unlike vision, the top of the eye worked most of my career on where we know, okay, the eye does this part and the thalamus does this part and the cortex does that part. I've always been a little perplexed about the hippocampus frankly. And I've read the textbooks and I've heard the lectures, but I'd love to get the update. What are the general themes of the hippocampus as a structure and its function? What do you think everyone, including neuroscientists, should know about the hippocampus?
好的。您可以为我们多介绍一下海马体。我认为，至少对我们这一代人来说，尽管我是神经科学家，但对大多数我这一代的人来说，可能是先从电影《记忆碎片》中听说海马体的。哦，对的，电影中提到海马体。对于没有看过这部电影的人来说，它是一部结构独特但同样有趣的关于记忆的电影。即使作为一名神经科学家，有时我也对海马体的工作原理感到困惑。也许您可以为我们解释一下这个结构是什么，它的外观如何，可能还有它的一些子区域。因为与视觉不同，我的职业生涯大部分时间都在研究视觉，我们知道眼睛做这部分，丘脑做那部分，而大脑皮层负责另一部分。但坦白说，我一直对海马体感到有些困惑。我学习了教科书，听过讲座，但我希望能获得最新的信息。海马体作为一个结构和功能，其一般主题是什么？您认为每个人，包括神经科学家，应该了解海马体的什么内容？
Absolutely. So let's start with the basics. The word hippocampus means seahorse. It is shaped, the structure is shaped like a curly-cure seahorse. That is accurate. Everybody, including neuroscientists, should know it's a beautiful structure. It is visually and atomically beautiful with these kind of intro-twining, twirly subregions within it. And I think that's one of the reasons why early anatomists, who were the very first neuroscientists, got attracted to it because it's this interesting twirly structure deep in the heart of the brain. So that's anatomically. Functionally, what does it do? Well, it's easiest to understand what it does when you look at what happens when you don't have a hippocampus anymore. What if you, what if by some disease or you have your hippocampus removed by accident, what happens? Well, we know this from the most famous neurological patient of all time. His initials were HM, so all psychology neuroscientists, neuroscientists know him. He was operated in 1954 and the paper was published in 1957. They removed both the hippocampi because he had very terrible epilepsy. And they knew that the hippocampus was the genesis of epilepsy.
当然可以。那么我们从基础开始。海马体这个词的意思是海马，因为其形状就像一只卷曲的海马。这种描述很准确。每一个人，包括神经科学家，都应该知道海马体是一个美丽的结构。它在视觉上和解剖学上都极具魅力，内部有着交织着卷曲的小区域。我认为这也是为什么早期的解剖学家（也是最初的神经科学家）对它感兴趣的原因之一，因为它是位于大脑深处的有趣的卷曲结构。这是从解剖学来看。那从功能上来说呢？最容易理解它的功能方法是看看没有海马体会发生什么。如果因为某种疾病或者意外，你的海马体被移除了，会怎样？我们知道这一点是因为历史上最著名的神经学病人，他的名字缩写是HM，所有的心理学和神经科学工作者都知道他。他在1954年接受手术，相关的论文在1957年发表。医生们移除了他的两个海马体，因为他患有非常严重的癫痫，他们知道海马体是癫痫的起源地。
And this was experimental. His epilepsy was so bad that they decided not just to remove one hippocampus, but both. And what happened was immediate loss of all ability to form new memories for facts and events. Think about that for a second. All facts or events, you're not able to remember. I can't remember this interaction between us. I can't remember any of the facts that we were just chatting about in our neuroscience lives. None of that can move into our long-term memory. So this hippocampus does something with all of these perceptions that are coming at us every single day, every minute of the day. And not for all of them, but for some of them that have these features that we just talked about. Maybe they're novel, maybe they have associations, maybe they're, they're emotionally relevant, maybe they've been repeated. Some of those things in the realm of facts or events get encoded in our long-term memory. And that's the textbook of why the hippocampus is so important.
这是一种实验性的手术。他的癫痫非常严重，因此医生决定不仅切除一个海马体，而是两个。结果是他立刻失去了形成新的事实和事件记忆的能力。想象一下这个情况：所有的事实或事件，你都无法记住。比如，我记不住我们之间的这次交流，也记不住我们刚刚在神经科学领域讨论的任何事实。没有任何东西可以转移到长期记忆中去。因此，这个海马体在每天、每一分钟接收到的各种感知信息中起着一定的作用。并不是所有的信息都会被存储，只有一些具备特定特征的信息才会被长期记忆编码。也许这些信息是新的、有联系的、情感上相关的，或者是经过重复的。这些特性中的一些能够使事实或事件被编码到长期记忆中。这就是为什么海马体如此重要的教科书式解释。
I like to always add, and I mean, this is why I studied it for so many years. The hippocampus and what it does really defines our own personal histories. It means it defines who we are. Because if we can't remember what we've done, the information we've learned, and the events of our lives, it changes us. That's what really defines us. That's why I wanted to study the hippocampus.
我喜欢一直强调这一点，这也是为什么我研究它多年的原因。海马体及其功能实际上定义了我们个人的历史，也就是说，它定义了我们是谁。因为如果我们不能记住自己所做的事情、学过的信息和生活中的事件，这就会改变我们。而这正是定义我们的关键。这就是我想研究海马体的原因。
And I think the exciting new ideas about the hippocampus was, is that it's, you know, hippocampus is important for memory. So if you say that, you'll be impressed all your people at your cocktail party. But what people have started to realize that it's not just memory. It's not just putting together associations for what, where and when, of events that happened in our past. But it's putting together information that is in our long-term memory banks in interesting new ways. I'm talking about imagination.
我认为关于海马体的一个激动人心的新观念是，海马体的重要性不仅仅在于记忆。如果你在社交场合提到这一点，大家都会对你刮目相看。然而，人们开始意识到它的作用不仅仅是记忆。海马体不仅仅是将我们过去发生事件的"是什么、在哪里、何时"进行关联，而是以新颖的方式将我们长期记忆库中的信息整合在一起。这就是我所说的想象力。
So without the hippocampus, yes, you can't remember things. But actually, you're not able to imagine events or situations that you've never experienced before. So what that says is that the hippocampus is important for memory is a two-simple way to think about it. What the hippocampus is important for is what we've already talked about, associating things together with large. Anytime you need to associate something together, either for your past, your present, or your future, you are using your hippocampus.
没有海马体的话，是的，你无法记住事情。但实际上，你也不能想象你从未经历过的事件或情境。所以说，认为海马体仅仅是对记忆重要的看法过于简单。海马体的重要性在于我们之前提到的，它能够将事物联系在一起。无论你是需要将过去、现在还是未来的事情联系起来，你都在使用你的海马体。
And it takes on this much more important role in our cognitive lives when we think about it like that. That is kind of the new hippocampus that that neuroscientists are studying these days. That's fantastic. So it sounds like it really sets context. But it can do that with elements from the past, the present, or the future. Yes. And for neuroscientists, the phrase is domain. We say the time domain, meaning as opposed to just evaluating things in space. It sounds like the time domain of hippocampal functioning is incredibly interesting.
当我们这样思考时，它在我们的认知生活中扮演了一个更加重要的角色。这就像是神经科学家们最近在研究的新型海马体。这真是太棒了。听起来它确实能够设定背景，并且可以处理来自过去、现在或未来的元素。是的。对于神经科学家来说，有一个术语叫做时间域，我们说时间域是相对于仅仅在空间上评估事物的。听起来海马体功能的时间域非常有趣。
It is. And even the fact that we can have short-term, medium-term, and long-term memories. And we could go down any of these radicals. I'll ask you a true or false, mostly because I just really want to know the answer. A few years ago, the theme in various high-profile reviews seemed to be that the hippocampus was involved in encoding and creating memories, but not in storing memories. And that memory storage was in the neocortex or the other overlying areas of the brain. Is that too general a statement?
这是正确的。而且，我们能够拥有短期、中期和长期记忆这一事实。我们可以由此深入探索任何一个分支。我来问你一个是非问题，主要是因为我真的很想知道答案。几年前，一些高调的评论中似乎普遍认为，海马体参与了记忆的编码和创建，但不负责记忆的存储。记忆的存储则是在大脑的新皮层或其他表层区域。这个说法是否过于笼统？
That's a tricky statement because I think that ultimately, yes, that long-term memories are stored in the cortex. But those memories are stored in the hippocampus sometimes for a very, very long time. So how long is too long where you say, oh, it's not the hippocampus anymore? If it's four years, is that, does that mean that it's not stored in the hippocampus? I think that's a tricky question. And yes, it was coming up a lot because people were debating it. And some people did think that you shouldn't think about the hippocampus as a storage area.
这是一种复杂的说法，因为我认为最终长期记忆确实是存储在大脑皮层的。但这些记忆有时会在海马体中存储很长时间。那么，多久算是太久，以至于我们可以说，它不再存储在海马体中呢？如果是四年，那是否意味着它不再存储在海马体？我觉得这是个很有挑战性的问题。是的，人们对此争论不休，有些人认为不应该把海马体视为存储区域。
But I think it's a long, long, long-term, kind of intermediate storage area, maybe not the long-term storage area. That's why it's hard to answer that question. Great. As I recall, HM could remember facts from before his surgery. Yes. He couldn't form new memories. Correct. And given that he had no hippocampus, it would at least partially support the idea that some of memories are retained outside the hippocampus.
我认为这是一个很长很长的时间，用于中期存储的地方，也许不是用于长期存储的地方。这就是为什么这个问题很难回答。好的。我记得，HM（亨利·莫莱松）在手术前的事情他是记得的。是的。他无法形成新的记忆。对的。鉴于他没有海马体，这至少部分支持了一种观点，即有些记忆保存在海马体之外。
However, he did have part of his posterior hippocampus intact. So that's the tricky thing. I think initially, in fact, Scoville, the neurosurgeon, overestimated the number of millimeters he had wanted, he intended to remove the hippocampus. And then when they did this, the very historic MRI of HM later in his life, they showed that in fact he did have that posterior hippocampus, part of the posterior hippocampus intact. So now it makes it a little bit more complicated to interpret what's going on, not that it was never uncomplicated.
然而，他确实有部分后海马体是完好无损的。这就是问题的复杂之处。我认为一开始，实际上神经外科医生斯科维尔高估了他想要切除的海马体的毫米数。而后来在HM生命的后期进行的一次具有历史意义的核磁共振成像中，他们发现实际上他确实有部分后海马体是完整的。这使得理解发生的情况变得更加复杂，尽管它从来都不是不复杂的。
Any interpretation of a lesion in a patient, as you know, is complicated. But HM had this mythical role in neuroscience and neurology. And that was it was it was complicated because he does have more of the hippocampus intact. I did not know that. There are some memories that can be formed very quickly, so-called one trial learning. And I'm just looking at this list again, novelty repetition association and emotional resonance.
如你所知，对患者病变的任何解读都很复杂。但是，HM在神经科学和神经学中扮演着一种神话般的角色。问题在于他的情况很复杂，因为他的海马体有更多部分是完好的。我之前不知道这一点。有些记忆可以非常快速地形成，被称为一次性学习。我正在重新查看这份清单，其中包括新颖性、重复、联想和情感共鸣。
It seems like some experiences can bypass the need for multiple repetitions. Yeah, absolutely. And unfortunately, it seems that our nervous system is skewed toward creating one trial memories for negative events, which has a survival adaptive mechanism. What is the neural connection that allows that to happen? Is it the amygdala to hippocampus connection? I mean, as you and I know, it seems like every brain area ultimately is connected to everything else.
有些体验似乎可以不需要多次重复就被记住。是的，确实如此。而且不幸的是，我们的神经系统似乎偏向于对负面事件快速形成记忆，这是一种有助于生存的适应机制。这种现象是由什么样的神经连接造成的呢？是杏仁核到海马体的连接吗？就像我们知道的，似乎大脑的每个区域最终都是互相连通的。
It's just a question of how many nodes, just like every city is connected to another city. It's just a question of how many flights and nodes do you have to traverse before you get there? What is it about one trial learning? I mean, at a kind of top-conn tour level, how can we learn certain things so fast? And other things are tricky. And now every time I look at this white mug, it's queuing up something special that simply by virtue of saying it. So is that one trial memory? But what is it about very emotionally salient events that allow memories to get stamped in? Yeah. I mean, I think you've already alluded to it. That is, there is this protective function of our brains that has evolved over the last 2.5 million years. That you need to pay attention and remember certain things for your survival.
这只是节点数量的问题，就像每个城市都相互连接一样。关键在于你需要经过多少航班和节点才能到达目的地。关于“一次性学习”的特点是什么？我的意思是，在一种高层次的总结上，我们如何能如此快速地学会某些事情，而另一些事情却很复杂。每当我看到这个白色杯子时，它就唤起一些特别的东西，仅仅因为我的意识。这算是一次性记忆吗？但究竟是什么让情感上特别显著的事件使得记忆能够被铭刻呢？是的，我想你已经提到了一些原因。即我们的大脑在过去的250万年中进化出了某种保护功能，我们需要注意并记住某些事物以保证生存。
So some things that get stamped in, they're memories, but they're fear memories. If I get mugged on the subway or they're terrible things that could happen on the subway as we just learned. But if something terrible happens, if something very scary happens, you remember that. And that fear and that memory of all those things. I mean, I have one when I lived in Washington, D.C. I went to work at NIH on the Sunday afternoon, and I came back and when I rounded the corner to my door of my apartment, it was crowboy barred in. Somebody had taken a crowbar, opened up my door and stole all of my, all of my, the nicest things in my apartment, which wasn't that nice because I wasn't making that much money. But ever since then, whenever I rounded that corner, I still had that memory. It was terrible because it put me in a terrible state when I was just coming home. And that's a survival mechanism. Do you want to be alert to possible danger? Absolutely, yes.
有些记忆是深刻的，比如恐惧记忆。当我在地铁上被抢劫，或者出现其他可怕的事情时，这些事件会被牢记心中。如果发生了可怕的事情，尤其是非常恐怖的事情，就会记住那个恐惧和所有相关的记忆。我自己就有过这样的经历，那是在我住在华盛顿特区的时候。有一个星期天下午，我去国立卫生研究院工作，回来的时候，当我转过拐角走向我公寓的门时，发现门被撬了。有人用铁撬撬开了我的门，把我公寓里最值钱的东西都偷走了。说实话，我的东西也不太好，因为那时候我收入不高。但从那以后，每当我走过那个拐角时，我就会想起那件事。这很糟糕，因为每次回家时都会让我陷入一种糟糕的状态。这实际上是一种生存机制，因为我们需要对潜在的危险保持警觉。这一点非常重要，对吗？当然没错。
So part of those one trial memories, I think, is often taking advantage of this evolutionarily developed system to tamp in things that could be potentially dangerous to you into your memory. So you forever will remember this particular corner or this hallway because that is where something really bad happened to you. It seems like a location. We talk about conditioned place aversion, which is just a Geekspe for wanting to avoid the place where something bad happened or conditioned place preference, wanting to go back to a place where something positive happened. We've been looking at a photograph of where you had a wonderful time with somebody that can evoke all sorts of positive sensations. It seems like at some level, as complex as the brain is, the basic elements of feeling good or feeling lousy are states within the brain and body.
这些一次性记忆的一部分可能是利用进化发展出来的系统，将那些可能对你有潜在危险的事情深深地印入记忆中。因此，你永远会记得那个特定的角落或走廊，因为在那里你曾经经历过非常糟糕的事情。这就像一个位置记忆。我们会谈到条件性地点厌恶，这只是一个专业术语，意思是想要避免那些发生过不愉快事情的地方；或者条件性地点偏好，想要回到一个曾经发生过美好事情的地方。比如，看着一张你与某人共度美好时光的照片，可以激发各种积极的感受。尽管大脑非常复杂，但似乎在某种程度上，感到快乐或糟糕的基本元素依然是大脑和身体中的状态。
And linking those to places seems like it's a pretty straightforward formula. Link place to state, link state to place, etc. As your description just provided. When we learn more complex information, a poem, a concept, or we have to ratchet through a set of ideas, that also involves memory. I'm sure that we'll talk more about this, but is there any way that you're aware of that state, bodily state can be leveraged to enhance the speed or the quality of memories and memory formation? Because, you know, so to be clear about it, it seems there's something very important about this fourth, this emotional resonance component. Right. Novelty, the crowbar into the doors, thank goodness, it sounds like it was novel, it wasn't repeated, thank goodness. So repetition is out, and the association is very, very strong.
将这些联系到特定地点似乎是一个相当简单的公式。比如，将地点与状态联系起来，再将状态与地点联系起来等等，就像你刚才描述的那样。当我们学习更复杂的信息时，如诗歌、概念，或者需要梳理一系列想法时，这也会涉及到记忆的使用。我相信我们会再详细讨论这个话题，但你是否知道有什么方法可以利用身体状态来增强记忆的速度或质量？因为，这个话题有一个非常重要的方面，就是情感共鸣的因素，对吗。新颖性就像是撬开大门的撬棍，谢天谢地，它听起来是新颖的，而不是重复的，谢天谢地。所以，排除了重复，而关联是非常非常强烈的。
But for people trying to learn information that they're not that excited about, or that repetition is hard, or the novelty is simply that it's painful. As have I, is there something that we can do to leverage knowledge of how the memory system works naturally to make that a more straightforward process? So I immediately turn to the things that I've studied that you talk about so beautifully on your podcast, which are strategies generally to make your brain work better. I was just reminding myself of your podcast about cold, because I use that every morning. Oh, you do, cold. I do. Just take a moment and and tell us what is your cold exposure program.
对于那些想学习自己不是很感兴趣的信息的人来说，重复可能很困难，或者新奇感仅仅是因为它带来的痛苦。我也有过这样的经历，我们是否可以利用对记忆系统自然运作方式的了解，让学习变得更简单一些呢？因此，我立即转向我研究过的那些策略，你在播客中如此巧妙地谈到这些策略，它们一般是为了让大脑更好地运作。我刚刚还提醒自己关于你那期讲“冷”的播客，因为我每天早上都用这个方法。哦，你也用冷。我用。请花一点时间告诉我们你的冷暴露计划是什么。
I'll take you back to what you're saying. So my cold exposure protocol is at the end of every morning shower that I take. The shower is warm, but I give myself a big blast of cold at the end of that. And it makes me feel so good, and because I've been doing it for several years, it's so much less painful. Okay, I admit it was really painful at the beginning, but it's much less painful. I could handle the cold water, and my pipes are give nice, really cold water. And it just, I could feel, I could feel the the awakeness kind of come come up in me after that. And so, and I miss it. If I forget to do it, sometimes I run back in and give myself that cold blast because it is it is up in, you know, I think you talked about this on your podcast.
我来帮你回忆一下你说过的话。我每天早上的洗澡程序最后会进行冷水冲击。洗澡的水是温的，但在最后我会让自己在冷水中狠狠刺激一下。这让我感觉非常好，因为我已经这样做了好几年，所以感觉没那么痛苦。好吧，我承认一开始确实很痛，但现在好多了。我能够承受冷水，我家的管道可以提供非常冷的水。这样做后，我感觉神清气爽。如果偶尔忘记了，我甚至会跑回去给自己来一阵冷水冲击，因为我觉得这真的很好。我记得你在你的播客中提到过这一点。
What's happening in the brain? Basically, the cold stimulus, that shock, that, you know, catching your breath, et cetera, is adrenaline from the adrenals, but also from what we understand now, some new neuroimaging, there's epinephrine and nor epinephrine released from locus ceruleus, which again is a brain structure in the back of the brain. Got sprinklers, the rest of the brain with, with a kind of a wake up chemical. And there's a long arc on dopamine release. This paper back in 2000 showed that it's a steady increase up to about 2.5 acts of circulating dopamine. So they weren't looking directly in the brain admittedly, but it goes on for four or five hours. Wow. So they improve mood and the feeling of alertness is a real thing.
在大脑中发生了什么？基本上，寒冷刺激，那种惊吓感，比如让你喘不过气来等等，是由肾上腺分泌的肾上腺素引起的。此外，根据我们现在的理解，一些新的神经成像研究表明，蓝斑核（位于大脑后部的一个结构）也会释放肾上腺素和去甲肾上腺素。这些化学物质就像洒水器一样，唤醒大脑的各个部分。此外，多巴胺的释放是一个较长的过程。一篇发表在2000年的论文显示，多巴胺的循环水平稳步上升，增加到大约原来的2.5倍。他们并没有直接在大脑中观察，但这种增多的效果持续四到五个小时。这确实可以改善情绪和提高警觉性。Wow。
Yeah, yeah. So, so I use that. I mean, so basically I use my morning routine. What is my morning routine? I get up, I do a 45 minute tea meditation. So meditating over the brewing and drinking of tea that I learned from a monk who has an institute in Taiwan, where he teaches tea meditation. Love it. I've learned all about tea, different kinds of tea. And then I do a 30 minute cardio, cardio weights workout. Then I take my shower with the hot cold contrast. And oh, and before that, key thing, if I want to learn something and I want to be able to get over the difficulty of repeating things or just just push myself to do stuff. Sleep. So good, good sleep.
好的，所以我利用我的早晨时间。我的早晨例行活动是什么呢？我起床后会进行45分钟的茶冥想，也就是在泡茶和喝茶时进行冥想，这是我向在台湾开办茶冥想学院的一位僧人学习的，我非常喜欢这个练习。我学到了很多关于茶的知识，不同种类的茶等等。接着，我会进行30分钟的有氧和举重运动。然后，我会用冷热对比沐浴来洗澡。哦，对了，关键是，如果我想学些东西，并且希望能够克服重复练习的困难或是推动自己去做某件事，关键就是睡眠，要有好的睡眠。
I've learned that over the pandemic, I did sleep experiments on myself and I learned that I was sleeping an hour less than I really needed. So I really need seven and a half to eight hours of sleep and I was getting six and a half. And so now, you know, I get that seven and a half to eight hours every single night. And guess what? I come to different difficult tasks and I am more willing to give it a try to try longer, to try harder. And my brain works better. And so I think, probably if you go back to all of your podcasts, you'll learn exactly why each one of those things that I do, which I would bet that you probably do too, is helping my brain. I guarantee they are.
我了解到在疫情期间，我对自己的睡眠进行了实验，发现自己实际上比所需的时间少睡了一个小时。我确实需要七个半到八个小时的睡眠，而我之前只睡了六个半小时。所以现在，我每晚都保证睡七个半到八个小时。结果怎么样呢？我面对不同的困难任务时，更愿意去尝试、更持久、更努力，而我的大脑运转得更好。所以我想，如果你回顾所有的播客，你会明白我所做的每一件事——我打赌你也可能在做这些事情——是如何帮助我的大脑的，我可以保证它们确实有效。
And I'm impressed that you do all these things, although not surprised. And I should say that the extra hour of sleep is really impressive and extremely beneficial. I'm curious, do you get that in the early part of the night by going to bed earlier? Yeah. Yeah. Terrific. And I should just mention, because you're too humble to do it, but I'll say it again, that yes, not only are you a full professor running a tenured full professor and running a laboratory, you teach undergraduates, you have an important role in public education, multiple books, and you're now dean of the college of arts and sciences at NYU. So the extra hour of sleep is benefiting you and as a consequence, benefiting everybody else as well.
我对你能做到这些事情感到钦佩，虽然并不感到惊讶。我还要说，多睡一个小时真的很了不起，也非常有益。我很好奇，你是通过早睡来获得这个额外的睡眠时间吗？是的，了不起。而且我还要提一句，因为你太谦虚了不会自己说，所以我再说一遍。是的，你不仅是一个终身教授，管理着一个实验室，还教本科生，在公共教育中扮演重要角色，写了多本书，现在还是纽约大学文理学院的院长。所以多睡一个小时不仅对你有利，也对其他所有人都有好处。
Thanks for sharing with us your protocol. I took you off the trajectory of what one can do, but I think that people and I appreciate knowing, you know, kind of with the practical steps. So, yeah, yeah, knowing the science is important, mechanism I do believe is important for embedding protocols in people's minds and why they might want to do them, but really hearing that the mechanics of it is useful. It sounds like everything together takes about an hour. It's not an excessive amount of time, but it probably gives you an outsized positive effect on your day. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I definitely notice it if I'm not able to do it.
感谢您与我们分享您的方案。我可能偏离了一个人可以做的轨迹，但我认为大家和我都很感激知道那些实用的步骤。所以，是的，是的，了解科学原理是很重要的，我相信理解机制对于将这些方案深入人心以及为什么人们可能想要实施它们也是非常重要的，但是真的听到这些具体步骤也是很有用的。听起来所有步骤加起来大约需要一个小时。这并不是一个很长的时间，但可能会给您的一天带来显著的积极影响。哦，当然。如果我不能做到这一点，我确实会察觉到。
And when I don't, so I do this seven days a week. It's also not just, you know, five days, seven days a week. And when I can't do it, it's usually early morning flights or things like that. And I get over it, but it's critical, critical for the working of my brain. I love it. And I'll just highlight one thing that you said before we move on, which is that you said, when sometimes what if you get out of the shower before the cold, you'll get back in, that's to me a really beautiful example of condition place preference. Now the cold shower has become something that you sort of look forward to.
当我无法做到的时候，我就一周七天坚持这样做。这不仅仅是五天，而是一周七天。如果有时候不能做到，通常是因为早班飞机或其他类似的事情。我会克服这些困难，但这对我大脑的运作来说至关重要。我很喜欢这样。在继续之前，我想强调一下你之前提到的一个观点，就是如果有时你在冷水前就从淋浴中出来，你会再回去洗，对我来说，这真是一个经典的条件性地点偏好的例子。现在冷水淋浴已经变成了一件让你期待的事情。
I should say that nobody is immune from adrenaline increase of cold. No matter how cold it is, this is what's interesting about cold. That's one of the reasons why it's such an important part of the screening for special operations, you know, sort of for seal teams, but other branches of military too, which is that they're very few stimuli that you can give anyone and consistently get an adrenaline release from that without harming them. You know, eventually you need to use so much heat that you damage tissue. Or with exercise, you have to use, once you exercise, you can damage joints.
我想说，没有人能够完全不受寒冷引发的肾上腺素增加的影响。不管温度有多低，这就是寒冷有趣的地方之一。这也是为什么它成为特种部队，比如海豹突击队，以及其他军事部门筛选训练中重要部分的一个原因。再没有什么刺激可以像寒冷这样，既能持续引发肾上腺素分泌，又不对人体造成伤害。你知道，如果是使用热能，终究可能因为太过而损坏组织；而如果是锻炼，也可能因过度而损害关节。
Yeah. And it's this very kind of, really, I don't know if it was intentional or not. It's sort of an intentional genius that they, the special operations has figured out that sending people back into the cold over and over, it never really gets easier. But over time, people actually start to crave it. Yeah. And it provides this reduction in inflammation, et cetera. So anyway, beautiful practice. Thank you. I want to learn more about your team meditation later in the episode. But in any event, returning to ways that we can improve memory formation. Yeah. Maybe if you would, tell us your story around this.
是的，这是一种非常奇妙的方式，我不知道这是否是有意为之。特种部队似乎发现了一个故意的"天才"策略，那就是让人们一次次地返回寒冷环境。尽管这过程从未真正变得更轻松，但随着时间推移，人们实际上开始渴望这种体验。这种方法还能减少炎症等。所以，这真是一个很美好的做法。谢谢。我希望稍后在节目中能了解更多关于你们团队冥想的事情。不管怎样，回到我们能改善记忆形成的方法上，也许你可以讲讲你的相关故事。
I know you've told it before, but a lot of members of the audience and I would love to hear, you know, how you came to this because growing up in neuroscience, I knew you as one of the, I would say one of the three or four and they're all alongside one another, not this isn't a hierarchical statement at three or four top memory researchers in the world, right? Textbook material is Suzuki in the, my textbooks are filled with the word Suzuki. Your last name, according to the information on memory and memory formation. So you were doing that. And doing the things that academics do. And then you're still doing that. But Yes. And still at a very high level.
我知道你以前讲过这个故事，但是在座的很多观众和我都很想听听你是如何走上这条路的。因为在神经科学领域成长过程中，我了解到你是全球数一数二的记忆研究专家之一。在我的教材中，经常看到你的名字Suzuki，尤其是在关于记忆和记忆形成的内容里。所以你那时候就在从事这一领域的工作，做学术界通常会做的事情。而且你至今仍然在这个领域保持着很高的水准。
But then things took a different direction. Maybe we could talk about your story and how you came to the place you are at now. Because I think it provides a number of tools that people could implement themselves. Yeah. Yeah. So this story happened as I was working to get tenure at NYU. And as you know, it's a stress-filled process. They give you six years to show your stuff. And you are judged in front of all your colleagues and you that they say, okay, you can join the club or they say, sorry, you are humiliated in front of everybody. This was, let's go. They actually tell people to leave.
但是事情却朝着不同的方向发展了。也许我们可以聊聊你的故事，以及你是如何走到现在这个地步的。因为我认为你的经历提供了很多可以让人们借鉴的方法。是的，是的。这个故事发生在我努力争取纽约大学终身教职的时候。正如你所知，这是一个充满压力的过程。他们给你六年的时间来展示你的能力，最后由所有同事评判你，然后说，你可以加入我们的团队，或者说，对不起，你在大家面前被羞辱。他们甚至真的会让人走人。
Yeah. If you don't get tenure, you're gone. You have to leave your institution. And so, so you know, you work really, really hard. And so my strategy was, I'm just going to not do anything but work. And I'm just going to work and I'm going to just work as hard as I can for the six years. And what happens when you work and you don't have any sort of life outside of work and you live in New York where there's all sorts of really good takeout, you gain 25 pounds, which is exactly what I did. And you get really, really stressed. And you start to ask yourself, how come I'm living in New York City and I love Broadway? And I've never, I haven't gone to a Broadway show in two years.
是的。如果你没有获得终身教职，你就会被解雇。你必须离开你所在的机构。因此，你知道，你会非常非常努力地工作。所以我的策略就是不做任何事情，只是工作。我决定全力以赴地工作，六年间尽我所能去努力。而当你只工作而没有工作之外的生活时，并且你生活在外卖非常丰富的纽约，就会像我一样增重25磅，同时你会感到非常非常有压力。然后你会开始问自己：我为什么住在纽约市，而我又很喜欢百老汇，但却有两年都没有去看过一场百老汇的演出呢？
And so I, so I, I, 25 pounds overweight, I decided to go on vacation and I went by myself because I had no friends and I went to, I did an adventure river rafting trip in Peru. And so I go by myself and, you know, meet other interesting people and I was the weakest person on this whole trip. Like, I was, I, there were so much in better shape. It was embarrassing. And they won't say this. They want to admit this to me, but it was true. And I kind of came back and I said, okay, I cannot be the weakest person. I'm in my late 30s. I have to do something.
所以，我在超重25磅的情况下，决定去度假。我因为没有朋友而选择独自旅行，我去了秘鲁参加一次冒险的漂流之旅。我一个人去并结识了一些有趣的人。然而，在整个旅程中，我是最弱的那一个。其他人身体状况好得多，这让我感到尴尬。虽然他们不愿意说，也不想承认，但这是真的。我回来后就对自己说，我不能再做最弱的人了。我已经快40岁了，必须做点什么改变。
So I went to the gym and I said, oh my God, I'm 25 pounds overweight. Let's, let's try at least to lose this weight. And so I go to the gym. I noticed how much better I feel when I go to just a single class. I remember the very first class I went to was a hip-hop dance class. I'm terrible hip-hop dancer, but I still felt good after, after that class. And then fast forward year and a half, I've lost to 25 pounds. So proud of myself. So much happier.
所以，我去了健身房，然后我心想，天啊，我超重了25磅。至少试着减掉这些体重吧。于是，我开始去健身房。我发现，即使只参加一节课，我的感觉都好很多。我记得我第一次参加的课程是嘻哈舞蹈课。我跳嘻哈舞跳得很烂，但上完课后我还是感觉很好。时间快进到一年半后，我已经减掉了25磅，我为自己感到骄傲，心情也好多了。
And I'm sitting in my office doing what you and I do a lot, which is writing an NIH grant, which is our lifeblood, right? And writing, writing, writing, and this thought goes through my mind that had never gone through my mind before, which during this six years of frantic grant writing when I was trying to get tenure. And that thought was, grant writing went well today. You know, that, that felt good. I was like, I've never had that thought before. What's going on here? This is really weird. I don't know that anyone has had that thought before.
我坐在办公室里，正在做你我经常做的事情，那就是写NIH申请，这是我们的生命线，对吧？写啊写啊写，然后一个我从来没有过的想法突然出现在我脑海中。在这六年的疯狂申请期间，我一直在努力争取终身教职。而那个想法是，今天的申请写得不错。你知道吗，那感觉真好。我以前从来没有过这种感觉。这到底是怎么回事？这真的很奇怪。我不知道有没有其他人有过这样的感觉。
I'm sure people have had that thought. But I thought, maybe I'm just having a good day. But when I thought about it, I thought, it's not just today, my grant writing seems to have been getting smoother. I'm able to focus longer. The sessions feel better to me. And at that point, the only thing that I changed in my life, it was a huge thing. But I had become a Jim Rat, rather than a workaholic. And that's when my, you know, spidey sense for neuroscientists popped up. And I said, what do we know about the effects of exercise on your brain?
我相信很多人都有过这样的想法。但我想，也许只是我今天状态好。然而，当我仔细想了一下，我意识到，不仅仅是今天，我的撰写资助申请似乎变得更顺利了。我可以更长时间地集中注意力。每次写作的感觉也更好了。那时，我生活中唯一改变的事情是，我成了一个健身爱好者，而不再是一个工作狂。这时，我那对神经科学家的敏锐直觉出现了，我问自己：我们知道运动对大脑有哪些影响呢？
Because if I think about it, what was better about my writing is, I could focus longer and deeper, very important. And I could remember those little details that you try and pull together for your million dollar NIH grant from, you know, 30 different articles that you have open on your screen all at the same time. That's a hippocampal memory. I was studying that. I was writing the grants on, on hippocampal memory. And so that's when I got really interested in the effects of exercise on both prefrontal focus and attention function and hippocampal function.
因为如果我仔细想想，我写作时的优势在于我能更长时间、更深入地集中注意力，这非常重要。我还能够记住那些细节，你需要把这些细节从屏幕上同时打开的30篇不同文章中整理出来，用于申请数百万美元的NIH（美国国立卫生研究院）资助。这是一种海马体记忆，我正是研究这个的，并且为此撰写资助申请。那时候我对运动对前额叶注意力和集中能力以及海马体功能的影响产生了浓厚的兴趣。
Because of my own observation and this kind of, I still remember where, where I was sitting, which office I was in when I had this revelation. But the thing that really sealed it for me that made me think, not just, oh, this is interesting. But I want to study this is right around that time, I got a phone call from my mom, who said that my dad wasn't feeling well and that he had told her that he got lost driving back from the 7-11, which was literally seven blocks from our house that I grew up in.
根据我自己的观察和经历，我仍然记得当时的情景，我坐在哪里，身处哪个办公室，当时我突然有所感悟。不过，真正让我决定深入研究这个现象的，是在那段时间，我接到了妈妈的电话。她说爸爸感觉不太好，并告诉她，他在从离我们家只有七个街区远的7-11便利店开车回来时迷路了，而我就是在那里长大的。
And I knew that was, that was hippocampal function. I suspected dementia. I suspected, though didn't want to admit Alzheimer's dementia, which he had. And it was funny because, I mean, it wasn't funny, but my mom and dad are two sides of a very different coin. My dad is the, the, the engineer, not so active all his life, but would love to sit, sit and read books all day. My mom was the athlete. She, she played tennis, team tennis into her 80s. And, and it, it started to show at that point.
我知道，那是海马体功能的问题。我怀疑是痴呆症。我怀疑是阿尔茨海默病，但不愿承认，他确实得了这种病。这很有趣，尽管不是真正意义上的有趣，因为我妈妈和我爸爸真是截然不同的两种人。爸爸是工程师，虽然一生都不是很活跃，但他特别喜欢坐着看书。而我妈妈是个运动员，一直打网球，甚至到八十多岁还在参加团队比赛。在那时，他们各自的状况开始显现出来。
And so then I had, then I had even a, a more pressing reason to think about what the effects of exercise were because I noticed that all the things that were improving in my brain suddenly went away. My, my dad's brain really, really smart guy, engineer and, you know, Silicon Valley helped help that push in Silicon Valley in the 70s happen. He had no more memory. He couldn't focus his attention. His mood was rock bottom. He's a very happy guy. And everything was the opposite in me.
后来，我真的有了一个更紧迫的理由去思考锻炼的效果，因为我发现我大脑中的所有改善突然消失了。我的爸爸是个非常聪明的人，是一名工程师，他曾在上世纪70年代帮助推动了硅谷的发展。然而，他现在没有了记忆，注意力难以集中，情绪也跌到了谷底。他本是一个非常快乐的人。而在我身上，一切都发生了相反的变化。
And I started thinking, this isn't just something to help, you know, somebody who wants to get tenure. This is something that could help millions and millions of people. Most importantly, our aging population. What if, you know, what's happening? And so the thing that makes me wake up in the morning is when I realized that every single time you move your body, you are releasing a whole bunch of neurochemicals.
我开始思考，这不仅仅是帮助某个想要获得终身教职的人。这是一件可以帮助数百万人的事情，尤其是我们的老龄人口。想象一下，这将带来怎样的影响？让我每天早上有动力醒来的原因是，我意识到每当你运动身体时，你都会释放出大量的神经化学物质。
And some of them, we've talked about that the good mood comes from dopamine and serotonin and noradrenaline. But the thing that gets released also, particularly with aerobic exercise is a growth factor called brain derived neurotrophic factor or BDNF. And that is so important because what it does is it goes directly to your hippocampus and it helps brand new brain cells grow in your hippocampus.
其中一些我们已经讨论过，良好的情绪来自多巴胺、血清素和去甲肾上腺素。但特别是在有氧运动中，还会释放一种叫做脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）的生长因子。这非常重要，因为它会直接作用于你的海马体，帮助在海马体中生长新的脑细胞。
We all have that, even if you're a couch potato, you can get new brain cells in your hippocampus to grow. But it's like giving your hippocampus a boost with this regular BDNF if you are exercising, which means that we all have the capacity to grow a bigger, fatter, fluffier hippocampus. And so what I like to give people is this image of every single time you move your body, it's like giving your brain this wonderful bubble bath of neurochemicals.
即使你是一个爱待在沙发上的人，其实我们都有这样的能力——让我们海马体中的新脑细胞生长。但如果你经常锻炼，就像给你的海马体注入了额外的脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF），这意味着我们都有能力让自己的海马体变得更大、更强壮、更有活力。因此，我喜欢给大家这样一个画面：每次你运动的时候，就好像是在给你的大脑进行一次神奇的神经化学泡泡浴。
What's going on? I need my bubble bath of noradrenaline and dopamine and serotonin and growth factors. And with regular bubble baths, what am I doing? I'm growing a big fat fluffy hippocampus. And I'm not going to cure my father's dementia, Alzheimer's dementia. But you know what? If I go into my 70s with a big fat fluffy hippocampus, even if I had that in my genes and it starts to kick in, it's going to take longer for that disease to start to affect my ability to form and retain new long-term memories for facts and events, which is my motivation for getting up and doing my 30 to 45 minutes of aerobic exercise every day.
发生了什么事？我需要我的“泡泡浴”，充满去甲肾上腺素、多巴胺、血清素和生长因子。通过经常的“泡泡浴”，我在做什么呢？我正在“养”一个又大又健康的海马体。虽然我无法治愈我父亲的阿尔茨海默病，但你知道吗？如果我到了70多岁时，有一个大大健康的海马体，即使我携带这种病的基因并开始发作，这种疾病也会更迟影响我形成和保留事实和事件的长期记忆的能力。这就是我每天坚持做30到45分钟有氧运动的动力。
Fantastic. Quick question about your protocol, just because, and then we'll discuss a few mechanistic things related to what signals the body might be sending the brain and a little bit more detail on BDNF and some circuitry. So 30 to 45 minutes, it sounds like cardiovascular exercise might be special. Yes. But as I say that, and I think about the literature that I'm aware of in mice and some in monkeys and certainly in humans, looking at the effects of exercise on brain function and typically the outcome is improvement almost always.
太棒了。我有个关于你方案的小问题，问一下。然后我们会讨论一些机制方面的内容，涉及身体可能向大脑发送的信号，以及BDNF和一些神经回路的细节。
你提到30到45分钟的锻炼，这似乎是对心血管锻炼有特别的要求。是这样吗？不过我之所以这么说，是因为我想到我所了解的关于运动对大脑功能影响的文献，不论是在老鼠、猴子还是人类身上，通常运动的效果几乎总是改善。
I don't think I've ever seen a paper showing that when animals or humans exercise more that their brain gets worse, I just can't think of a single paper. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm sure someone will put one in the comment section. They'll find that one and thank you for if you can find that. But it seems like it's always cardiovascular exercise and experimentally in a lab, it's a lot easier to get a mouse to run on a treadmill.
我觉得我从未见过有论文表明，无论是动物还是人类，运动多了大脑会变得更差。我真的想不出有这样一篇论文。当然，这并不意味着这样的论文不存在。我相信有人会在评论区指出这样的论文。如果你能找到，我会很感激。但似乎这种情况通常是关于心血管锻炼，而且在实验室里，让一只老鼠在跑步机上跑步相对容易得多。
Yeah. Then it is to get a mouse to lift weights, although people have put little ankle weights on mice and done. Yes. And the ways of getting mice to do resistance work is actually a little bit barbaric because oftentimes they'll incapacitate a limb to overload another limb. Yeah. So it's an asymmetric thing. It's not the same as sending them into due squats. Or dead lifts or something. But cardiovascular exercise might be special. Yeah. Yeah. What are your thoughts on that? Please first, though, tell us your routine. Your routine is 30 to 45 minutes of, are you a Peloton cyclor? Does it matter? I think that the data suggests that as long as your heart rate is getting up for these long term effects on your hippocampus and prefrontal cortex, you also get better at shifting and focusing your attention. For that, you need cardiovascular.
好的。要让老鼠举重相当困难，虽然有人给老鼠绑上小的脚踝重量。是的，让老鼠进行力量训练的方法其实有点残忍，因为通常他们会使一只肢体失去行动能力，以此来超负荷另一只肢体。这是一种不对称的方式，不是让它们去做深蹲或硬拉之类的。但心血管锻炼可能会很特别。你有什么看法？不过请先告诉我们你的日常锻炼。你的运动是30到45分钟，你是个动感单车爱好者吗？这重要吗？我认为数据显示，只要你的心率保持在一定水平，对海马体和前额叶皮质的长期效果就是显著的，并且还能提高注意力转移和集中。而做到这一点，你需要心血管锻炼。
And what I use is a video workout that I started even before the pandemic is called Daily Burn. And it's just thousands of different workouts. But I love, they are 30 minutes that I sometimes add on a 10 to 15 minute stretch at the beginning or at the end. But I love the variety. Sometimes I do it with weights, sometimes I do it without weights. I love kickboxing. So they have a lot of kickboxing in there. It just fits my, fits my, fits my routine. And it's always there. And I don't have to get all dressed up to go to the gym too, to work out. So that's, that's what I do. And that's a Daily Think Seven Days a Week. Yeah. Seven Days a Week. Fantastic.
我所使用的是一个叫做Daily Burn的视频健身课程，我在疫情前就开始用了。这个课程有数千种不同的锻炼方式，我非常喜欢这些课程是30分钟的，有时候我会在开始或结束时加上10到15分钟的拉伸。我很喜欢它的多样性，有时我会用哑铃锻炼，有时不用。我特别喜欢踢拳，这个课程里有很多踢拳项目。它很适合我的日常安排，并且随时可以使用。我不需要打扮好去健身房锻炼。因此，这就是我每天要做的事情，一周七天，每天都锻炼。太棒了！
So in terms of the way that some of these changes are being conveyed from the body to the brain, that fascinates me. I mean, as you and I know, and I'm sort of a repeating record on the podcast, always saying, you know, you got a brain, but you also have a spinal cord and then your nervous system connects everything. Every organ in your body is basically signaled to by the nervous system and back to the nervous system. You're just pointing everything. But so let's imagine your morning routine, you do your cardiovascular exercise. Okay, so you're pumping more blood. That's the definition of a higher heart rate. Stroke volume of the, of the, of the heart goes up over time. You're getting fitter. So blood flow, the brain is increasing. Do we know how that gets translated to a signal to release more BDNF?
这么说吧，有一些变化是如何从身体传达到大脑的，这让我很感兴趣。就像你和我都知道的，我在播客里总在重复这一点，你有大脑，但你也有脊髓，而你的神经系统连接着一切。身体里的每个器官基本上都通过神经系统收发信号。打个比方来说，你每天早晨的例行活动中，进行心血管锻炼。在这种情况下，你的心脏会加快泵血速度，这就是心率加快的定义。随着时间的推移，心脏的搏动量增加，你的体能也提高了，所以大脑的血流量增加。那么，我们知道这个过程是如何转化为信号从而释放更多的脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）的吗？
Yeah. Yeah. You know, and then it raises this other question, which is, does it matter where your mind is when you exercise? Because ultimately the brain, of course, you can anchor your attention to the exercise that you can be listening to a podcast or something else. I've always wondered about this. Yeah. Yeah. Can we enhance the effects of exercise by combining the enhanced blood flow with cognitive work during exercise? Yeah. Yeah. Or is it simply a matter of just getting more blood flow up to the hippocampus? Yeah. I wish I had the answer to that question too. My instinct is, yes, it matters partially because of the work of your colleague, Alia Krum, on mindset and the power of that to change how physiologically our body is responding. So how could it not work in her experiments and work in her experiments and not work for my, my morning or our morning exercise routine?
好的。你知道，这引发了另一个问题，就是当你锻炼的时候，你的注意力在哪里重要吗？因为最终，大脑当然可以让你的注意力集中在锻炼上，也可以听播客或其他东西。我一直对此很好奇。我们能通过在锻炼时结合增强的血流和认知工作来增强锻炼效果吗？还是只是把更多的血液流向海马体的问题？我也希望我有这个问题的答案。我的直觉是，它很重要，部分原因是你的同事阿莉亚·克鲁姆关于心态的研究，以及心态如何改变我们身体的生理反应的力量。所以，如果她的实验有效，为什么我的或我们的晨练例行不能有效呢？
So, but, but are there studies point to a study? I don't know of one. So exercise, neuroscientists out there, I'd love to see, you know, that, that, that study done. So, yes, it works. Before I go into the aerobic thing, I would like to start with the least amount of exercise to get something really useful because I don't want people to say, oh, God, I hate, you know, sweating. I don't want to listen anymore. So, so I always like to start with studies have shown that just 10 minutes of walking outside can shift your mood. That is part of that neurochemical bubble bath that you're getting dopamine serotonin or adrenaline and 10 minute and anybody can walk for 10 minutes. And so that is for all of you thinking that out there, what is the minimum that I could get some of these brain effects 10 minutes of walking?
所以，但是，有没有研究可以引用呢？我不清楚有这样的研究。所以，如果有神经科学家正在研究这方面，我很期待看到这样的研究进行。那么，是的，这确实有效。在我深入探讨有氧运动之前，我想先从最少量的运动开始，因为我不希望人们一听到就说，哎呀，我讨厌出汗，然后就不再听了。因此，我总是喜欢先谈谈研究显示的结果：仅仅在户外步行10分钟就可以改善你的情绪。这是你获得的多巴胺、血清素或肾上腺素的“神经化学泡泡浴”的一部分。而且任何人都可以步行10分钟。因此，对于所有正在思考的你们来说，最低限度能带来一些大脑效应的运动就是每天步行10分钟。
Anybody can do it. Is outside important? I'm a big believer in getting photons into the eyes. Yeah, it, I think that that study was done indoors on a treadmill. So, and, and the comparison wasn't done. But moving your, which is great, I, you know, some in the middle of the pandemic, I walked around my apartment for 30 minutes sometimes, just for some variety, felt like a rat on a running wheel, but, but, yes. So, so that, that minimum amount of movement in your body can get you those mood effects. But what about the big fat fluffy hippocampus? What about the better performing pfrontal cortex? That's where you start to need the cardio cardio workout. And from my reading of the literature, there haven't been enough studies, you know, directly comparing contrasting kickboxing with running with whatever, whatever other cardio that you need to do.
任何人都可以做到。外部环境重要吗？我非常相信让眼睛接触光线。是的，我认为那项研究是在室内的跑步机上进行的，没有进行比较。不过，在疫情期间，我有时候会在公寓里走动30分钟，为了改变一下，虽然感觉像是一只在跑轮子上的老鼠，但确实感觉更好。所以，身体的这一小部分运动可以带来情绪改善。但那丰满的海马体呢？还有更高效的前额皮质呢？对于那些，你就需要进行一些有氧锻炼。根据我阅读的文献来看，目前还没有足够的研究直接对比踢拳、跑步以及其他你需要进行的有氧运动。
But any cardio workout that is done has these positive effects. So, I'm going to say, my interpretation of that is that whatever way you get your heart rate up, including a power walk, a power walk can get your heart rate up, that, that is beneficial. And what is happening, there are two pathways that have been studied about how you go from moving your body to more BDNF, that, that, that neurochrofen that's, that's increasing the growth of new hippocampal brain cells. The two pathways of the following, one is a myokine, which is a protein released by the muscles. So, and not your heart, these are striated muscles in your body. And so, by running, these, these were studies done in rats on running wheels. They showed that the running rats had more of this myokine, released the myokine, passed the blood-brain barrier. So, got into the, rarified, very protected bloodstream of inside the brain. And that myokine stimulated the release of BDNF in the brain. That's pathway number one.
任何进行的有氧运动都有这些积极的效果。所以，我想说，我对此的理解是，无论你通过何种方式让心率加快，包括快速步行，快速步行也能够提高心率，这是有益的。研究发现，有两种途径可以从身体运动到增加脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF），这种神经营养因子能促进海马区新脑细胞的生长。第一种途径是通过肌肉释放的一种叫做肌肉因子（myokine）的蛋白质。这里指的不是心脏，而是你身体里的横纹肌。研究是在老鼠跑步轮上进行的，结果表明，跑步的老鼠释放了更多的肌肉因子，这些肌肉因子穿过了血脑屏障，进入了大脑内高度保护的血液系统中。这个肌肉因子刺激了大脑中BDNF的释放。这就是第一条途径。
Pathway number two comes through the liver, because exercise is a stress on generally. How do we know that? Well, cortisol is released whenever we exercise. We need, we need that sugar in our blood. And so, so that's how the physiological mechanisms work. And so, there is a ketone, beta hydroxybutyrate, that we've known for a very long time that gets released by the liver during exercise. And we also know that that particular ketone passes that blood-brain barrier. And it's another stimulant for BDNF. So, kind of the final common pathway seems to be BDNF stimulation in the hippocampus. Is it the only one? Probably not, but that's the one that has been studied most, most clearly. So, it's, you know, it comes from all of our physiological systems. Our muscles working, our liver responding to the stress of exercise. And what is it doing? It is making our, you know, giving more BDNF precursors to get into our brain to cause the up spike of BDNF, which is part of your bubble bath that you're getting every time you move.
第二条途径是通过肝脏，因为运动通常会对身体造成压力。我们怎么知道的呢？因为每当我们运动时，皮质醇就会释放。我们需要血液中的糖分，而这就是生理机制的运作方式。因此，肝脏在运动时会释放一种叫做β-羟基丁酸的酮体。我们也知道这种酮体可以穿过血脑屏障，并刺激脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）的生成。所以，最终的共同途径似乎是海马体中BDNF的刺激。这是唯一的途径吗？可能不是，但这是研究得最清楚的一条途径。它来源于我们所有的生理系统，包括肌肉的活动，以及肝脏对运动压力的响应。它的作用是什么呢？它通过增加进入大脑的BDNF前体，导致BDNF的激增，这就像每次你运动时获得的“泡泡浴”一样。
I love that description of a factor from muscle and a factor from liver because anytime we're thinking about movement of the body and translating that to the brain as you so clearly pointed out, that needs to be, it needs to traverse the blood-brain barrier. Not everything that happens in the body is communicated to the brain. And these seem like really important signals. Beta hydroxybutyrate, you mentioned is a ketone. I just want to underscore that doesn't mean folks that you need to be on a ketogenic diet. I think people hear ketone and they think that, you know, I know some people are, most people are not, I imagine. There are ketones that are released in your brain and body that can function even if you're ingesting carbohydrates and not ketogenic, just for a point of clarification.
我很喜欢您提到的肌肉因素和肝脏因素这个说法，因为每当我们考虑身体的运动，以及如何将这种运动的信息传递给大脑时，必须要穿过血脑屏障。并不是身体发生的一切都会被大脑感知到，而这些信号似乎是非常重要的。您提到的β-羟基丁酸是一种酮体，我只是想强调一下，这并不意味着大家需要遵循生酮饮食。我知道有些人可能会这么想，但大多数人并没有必要这样。即使你摄入碳水化合物而不是采用生酮饮食，你的大脑和身体中也会释放一些可以发挥作用的酮体，只是为了澄清这一点。
This issue of new neurons is one that you hear a lot. Neurogenesis. You're going to grow new neurons, new neurons. And my understanding is that the rodent literature is very clear. That animals that run on wheels more often, it turns out rodents love to run on wheels. Do you know these studies by Hoppy Hofstra, which are pretty funny? They're very cool, by the way, Hoppy, how huge investigator. I'm not making light of them. They put running wheels in a field and a wild rodent will run to the running wheel and run on that running wheel. So they really enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. I find amusing reasons that probably only a neuroscientist would find amusing.
关于新神经元这个话题，我们经常听到，指的是神经发生。大家会长出新的神经元。根据我所了解的情况，啮齿动物的研究文献非常清楚地指出，那些更经常在轮子上跑的动物会有这样的情况。事实证明，啮齿动物非常喜欢在轮子上跑。你听说过Hoppy Hofstra的这些研究吗？其实非常有趣，很酷，顺便说一下，Hoppy是个非常出色的研究者。我并不是在轻视他们的研究。他们在野外放置了跑轮，结果发现野生的啮齿动物会跑到那个跑轮上，然后在上面跑。所以它们真的很享受这种活动。是的，这让我感到很有趣，可能只有神经科学家会觉得有趣吧。
In any case, in rodents, it seems that running more on a wheel can trigger neurogenesis that literally the birth of new neurons and the addition of new neurons to the hippocampus. In monkeys, this has been controversial. It seems it does happen in the hippocampus and the neocortex, probably not in the neocortex. Thinking back to the decades of moral controversy between Liz Gould and Poshko Rikish. I hope they settled their differences there. Neuroscientists love to argue. It's what we do. And in humans, I think it's been a bit controversial. Some people say, yes, other people say, absolutely no, there are new neurons added to the adult brain. I haven't followed that literature down to the detail. But I do remember one study that I don't think is contested, which is the work of Resty Gage at the Salk Institute, where they actually injected a sort of die-type marker into the brains of terminally ill humans who very graciously offered to have their brains removed and dissected after death.
在任何情况下，对于啮齿动物来说，似乎在跑轮上跑得更多可以触发神经发生，也就是新的神经元的诞生并将其加入到海马体中。而对于猴子来说，这一现象是有争议的。看起来这种现象可能发生在海马体和新皮质，但大概不会在新皮质出现。这使人想起了在莉兹·古尔德和波什科·里克什之间长达数十年的道德争议。希望他们已经解决了分歧。神经科学家通常喜欢争论，因为这正是我们所做的。在人类中，我认为这一点也有些争议。一些人说大脑中确实增加了新的神经元，而另一些人则绝对否认。我没有深入跟踪这方面的研究细节。但我记得有一项研究，其结论应该是没有争议的，那就是索尔克研究所的雷斯蒂·盖奇的工作。他们实际上向临终病人的大脑注射了一种染料标记，这些病人非常慷慨地同意在死后捐献他们的大脑以供解剖研究。
In some cases, very old terminally ill humans, they did see evidence for new neurons being born in the hippocampus. Can I trust that idea still? Is that generally accepted? Well, so after that study, which was quite a while ago, there are more recent studies, still controversial, but showing and demonstrating using even new and better techniques than were used in that original Resty Gage study, which was groundbreaking at the time, that that suggests, and I think show, that there are new neurons born in adult human brains into the ninth decade of life. So they not only did this, I think those patients were in their 60s, then they died of cancer, but these new studies looking across the timeline.
在某些情况下，研究发现非常年长的绝症患者在他们的海马体中出现了新生神经元的迹象。我还能相信这个观点吗？这个观点普遍被接受吗？那个初期的研究已经是很久以前的事了，现在有更多的近期研究，虽然仍有争议，但运用了比当时开创性的Resty Gage研究更先进的新技术，显示出成年人类大脑可以在生命的80多岁阶段产生新的神经元。这些新研究不仅验证了这个现象，而且这些患者当时大约60多岁，死于癌症，但研究一直在不同时期进行观察。
Can we see? Because the other thing was, yeah, maybe you have some when you're 20, but by the time you're older, and you might need these new neurons, you have no new neuron growth. And so these studies seem to suggest that yes, yes, you did. Yes, you do. And we all do even into old age. So yeah. Great. And I'll just take a moment to say that I am personally not aware of any studies looking at other forms of exercise besides cardiovascular exercise for sake of brain health.
我们能看到吗？因为另一种说法是，也许你在20岁时确实有一些（新神经元产生），但到你年纪大了，可能需要这些新的神经元时，却没有新的神经元生长。但是，这些研究似乎表明，是的，你确实有新的神经元生长。我们所有人即使到了老年，也都有。这是一个好消息。我想要补充说明的是，我个人暂时还不了解除了心肺运动以外，其他形式的运动对大脑健康的影响的任何研究。
And this, I think, is an important gap in the literature that ought to be filled, whether or not, for instance, high-intensity interval training or whether or not weight training, which has other effects on the musculature. So you can imagine perhaps the myokine to be DNF pathway, the pathway one that you mentioned might be signaled, but maybe not the liver pathway. Maybe yes, I'm speculating here, those studies need to be done. To my knowledge, they just haven't been done yet. But they should be done.
我认为，这在文献中是一个重要的空白，需要填补。例如，高强度间歇训练或者重量训练对肌肉的影响是不是有类似的效果。你可以想象，可能会激活肌肉因子到脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）通路，就是你提到的那条通路，但可能不涉及肝脏通路。也许是这样，我在这里纯属猜测，这些研究还需要进行。据我所知，这样的研究尚未开展，但确实应该进行。
If you would, could you tell us about some of the more specific effects of exercise on memory? You know, when memory is a broad category of effects and phenomena. So things like what comes to mind is short term medium and long term memory, reaction time, learning math, at least for me, is quite a bit different than learning history. Although there's certainly overlap in the neural neural underpinnings. What has been demonstrated in the laboratory in animal models, but especially in humans?
如果可以的话，您能否告诉我们更多关于锻炼对记忆的具体影响？我们知道，记忆是一个广泛的效果和现象类别。我想到的有短期、中期和长期记忆、反应时间、学习数学（对我来说，与学习历史有很大不同）。尽管在神经基础上确实有重叠。那么在实验室中，尤其是在动物模型和人类身上的研究，已经证明了什么呢？
And if you want to share with us any results from your lab published or unpublished, I'm sure that the audience would be delighted to learn about them. Absolutely. Let me start with kind of the immediate effects, acute effects, as they're called, of exercise on the brain. So this is asking, what does a one-off exercise session do for your brain? And there are three major effects that have been reproduced. I've seen it in my lab. Many labs have reproduced this.
如果您愿意与我们分享您实验室的任何研究成果，无论是已经发表的还是未发表的，我相信观众都会非常感兴趣。好的，让我先谈谈运动对大脑的直接影响，也就是所谓的急性影响。这就是说，一次性的运动对大脑有什么作用呢？目前有三个主要影响已经被反复验证。我在我的实验室中验证过，许多其他实验室也达到了类似的结果。
So what do you get with a one-off? This is usually an aerobic type, type exercise session 30, 30 to 45 minutes. What you get is that mood boost, very, very consistent. You get improved prefrontal function, typically tested with a stoop test, which is a test that asks you to shift and focus your attention in specific ways. It's a challenging task and clearly dependent on the prefrontal cortex largely. And significant improvements in reaction time.
那么进行一次性锻炼会有什么效果呢？这通常是一种有氧运动类型的锻炼，持续时间为30到45分钟。通过这种锻炼，你可以明显提升情绪，效果非常一致。你的前额叶功能会得到改善，通常通过"Stroop测试"来检验，这是一种要求你以特定方式转移和集中注意力的测试。这是一个具有挑战性的任务，很大程度上依赖于前额叶皮层。此外，你的反应时间也会显著提高。
So your speed at responding, often a motor kind of, but cognitive motor response is improved. Over the pandemic, one of the unpublished studies that I did looking at the effects of 30 minutes of age-appropriate workout in subjects ranging in age from their 20s all the way up to their 90s. So what are the things that I saw most consistently? Irrespective of your age, everybody got a decreased anxiety and depression and hostility score, which is very important.
你的反应速度得到了提升，通常是指一种运动反应，但也包括认知和运动反应的改善。在疫情期间，我进行了一项尚未发表的研究，研究对象从20多岁到90多岁不等，每天做30分钟适合年龄的锻炼。我观察到的最一致的效果是什么呢？无论年龄大小，每个人的焦虑、抑郁和敌意评分都降低了，这一点非常重要。
So it's not just decreasing your anxiety and depression, but decreasing your hostility levels. Making the world a better place. Making the world a better place. Energy, the feeling of energy went up. And what we found is in the older population, even more than in the younger population, we saw improved performance on both stoop and Ericsson Flanker task, which is another task dependent on really focusing in on different letters and paying attention to what letters being shown.
这不仅仅是减少你的焦虑和抑郁，还能降低你的敌意水平。让世界变得更美好。能量感受提高了。我们发现，在老年人群中，甚至比年轻人群更明显，他们在斯特鲁普任务和埃里克森侧翼任务的表现都有所改善，这些任务都需要专注于不同的字母，并关注所显示的字母。
So these are consistent effects. How long do they last? One of the studies that I did publish in my lab showed that the immediate effects of exercise lasted up to two hours. Unfortunately, that was the longest that we last, they were still there at two hours. So that's a pretty big bang for your buck. That is. One 30 minute. Sorry to interrupt. I just want to make sure I understand.
所以，这些影响是一致的。它们会持续多久呢？我在实验室里发表过的一项研究表明，运动的直接效果可以持续长达两个小时。不幸的是，这是我们观察的最长时间，到两个小时时效果仍然存在。所以，这对你的付出来说是相当大的回报。以上是一段30分钟运动的效果。抱歉打断一下，我只是想确认我是否理解正确。
So when you say the effects lasted up to two hours, does that mean up to two hours after you finished exercise or up to two hours of memory challenging work? Yeah, just to be clear. Yeah, that's a great question. So my study looked at two hours after you finished your workout, we gave you these cognitive tests. During that two hour period, you were free to do anything except exercise or eat.
所以当你说效果持续了长达两个小时，这是否意味着锻炼结束后的两个小时，还是意味着长达两个小时的记忆挑战工作？好的，我来澄清一下。是个好问题。我的研究观察的是你锻炼结束后的两个小时。在这两个小时内，我们给你进行认知测试。在这段时间里，除了锻炼或进食之外，你可以自由进行任何活动。
And so there was no, no extra load on people. But two hours later, you did do significantly better on these focused attention tasks compared to a group that watched videos for the exercise period. This was an hour of cycling that they did. These were young, young subjects in their 20s. Okay, so if I finish my exercise at 9 a.m., even if I start this cognitive work, this mental work at 11, I'll still see benefits. Yes, at least by 11 because I didn't go farther than two hours. So it could last even longer than that. But I have evidence that lasts for two hours. And perhaps if I had started the cognitive work in 45 minutes after my exercise ended, it would also be helpful. Yes. I think there's a, you have to wait before starting cognitive work.
翻译成中文并简化：
这并没有给大家增加额外的负担。但在两个小时后，与观看视频作为运动时段的人相比，你在专注任务上表现得明显更好。这是一小时的骑行锻炼，参与者是二十多岁的年轻人。也就是说，如果我在早上9点结束运动，即使我在11点开始脑力工作，仍然会看到好处。是的，至少在11点之前会有效，因为我没有研究超过两个小时的情况，所以效果可能会持续更久。但我有证据表明可以持续两个小时。或许如果我在锻炼结束后45分钟就开始脑力工作，也会有帮助。是的，我觉得在开始脑力工作前需要等一段时间。
Yeah, no reason at all. I'm asking questions of the sort that I get in the comments that we are going to get in the comment section. We always strive for clarity here. So what this tells me is that exercising early in the day may have a special effect. Right. I realize that some people cannot exercise until later in the evening. But you mentioned something earlier that I want to cue people to. It's very, very important. I don't think I've ever mentioned this on the podcast, which is any kind of physical activity will increase cortisol to varying degrees. Yes. And so sometimes it's a healthy increase. Sometimes it's an unhealthy increase. If you do two hours of really intense exercise and you're not prepared for it, that's a big spike in cortisol, probably not a good thing for most people.
是的，没有特别的原因。我在提问一些我们在评论区会遇到的问题。我们总是努力做到清晰。所以这让我意识到早晨运动可能有特殊的效果。对，我明白有些人只能在晚上锻炼。但你之前提到了一件我想提醒大家注意的事情，这非常非常重要。我在播客中从未提到过这一点，那就是任何形式的体育活动都会在不同程度上增加皮质醇水平。是的，有时这种增加是健康的，有时则不健康。如果你没有准备好就进行两个小时的高强度运动，皮质醇会大幅上升，这对大多数人来说可能不是一件好事。
But if you are going to do your cardiovascular or weight training later in the day, that increase in cortisol can promote too much wakefulness for sleep, etc. Shifting that cortisol spike early in the day is associated with a number of important things related to mood, etc. But more and more, what I'm thinking and hearing is that exercise early in the day is key. Our former dean of the medical school Phil Pizzo was and is kind of famous still for jogging between the hours of like four and five a.m. or five and six and then running the medical school. And you're up early doing your exercise end cold shower and meditation. We'll talk about meditation. But this is more and more of a push.
如果你打算在晚些时候进行心血管锻炼或力量训练，皮质醇水平的上升会导致过于清醒，而影响睡眠。把皮质醇水平的高峰转移到一天的早些时候，与心情等多项重要因素有关。越来越多人认为，早上锻炼是关键。我们医学院的前院长Phil Pizzo仍因常年在凌晨四五点或五六点之间慢跑而闻名，接着开始管理医学院。而你也是一早就起来锻炼、洗冷水澡然后进行冥想（我们会讨论冥想）。这种趋势越来越受到重视。
I feel like or a stimulus for us to think about moving our exercise earlier in the day. Yeah. I mean, I like to say that, you know, I know there are moms and dads out there and they just say, look, I have a kid that the kid's more important than my doing my exercise. So you will get benefits if you do it whenever, whenever you can. So that's great. More power to you. But what all the neuroscience data suggests is the best time to do your exercise is right before you need to use your brain in the most important way that you need to use it every day. And so that is why the morning for most of us is beneficial. That's why I do it in the morning. I'm lucky enough to be able to do that.
我觉得这可能是促使我们考虑把锻炼时间提前到一天早些时候的一个想法。我知道很多父母会说，他们更重视孩子，而不是自己锻炼身体。所以，无论你什么时候锻炼，只要能抽出时间，都是有益的，这很棒，也值得为之加油。但所有神经科学的研究都表明，做锻炼的最佳时间是你每天大脑需要专注使用之前。因此，对大多数人来说，早晨锻炼是有利的，这就是我选择早上锻炼的原因。我很幸运能够做到这一点。
But yeah, it makes sense with all everything we know about how this works and how it benefits our brain. I think about our colleague, Eric Kendall, not incidentally has a Nobel prize and studies memory. And rumor has it that he's been a swimmer for a lot of years. He put in, I think nowadays, he's in his 90s. Now, he'll put in half a mile, but he used to swim a mile a day or something. I heard that too that he was a swimmer and he does it very, very religiously. Okay. So there are a few other neuroscientists that do that. I can think of a lot of neuroscientists that probably should exercise more. And I don't say that to poke it, though.
好的，这确实有道理，结合我们对这一工作的了解以及它对大脑的益处。我们有一个同事，埃里克·坎德尔，他研究记忆并且还获得过诺贝尔奖。坊间传闻称他多年来一直游泳。我想他现在已经90多岁了，现在每天游半英里，但过去可能每天游一英里。我也听说过他是个游泳爱好者，而且非常坚持。此外，还有其他几位神经科学家也这样做了。我认识很多神经科学家，他们可能应该更加锻炼。我并不是在调侃他们。
I just would love to see them doing their incredible work for many more decades. And everything that we're talking about today indicates that if one doesn't, unless you have incredible genetics, we all experience age-related dementia. I mean, the story of your father is a salient one. And we should remember that as we go forward. But I also want to emphasize that I love to get your thoughts on just memory and memory loss in general. It seems we all get worse at remembering and learning things. Even if we don't get Alzheimer's. When does that typically start for humans? You know, I think there's so much variability. Not only because we are individuals, but because our stress levels are different.
我非常希望能看到他们在接下来的几十年中继续完成他们不可思议的工作。事实上，我们今天讨论的一切表明，除非你的基因特别好，否则我们都会经历与年龄相关的痴呆。你父亲的故事就是一个明显的例子，我们应该牢记这一点。但我也想说，我很想听听你对记忆和记忆力减退的看法。即使我们没有得老年痴呆症，似乎我们的记忆和学习能力都会变差。通常情况下，人类从什么时候开始出现这些变化呢？你知道，我认为这有很大的变异性。这不仅是因为我们每个人都是独特的个体，还因为我们的压力水平也各不相同。
And well, everybody's anxiety level has gone up in the last couple of years. But that also has an effect. We don't remember as much in a highly stressful, highly anxious situation. So, so, you know, as you know, it's hard to answer that question. People say, okay, just tell me how much exercise I have to do. Okay, just. 30 to 40. But I love that per day. You know, I've been doing this whole thing of telling people, oh, the data say 150 to 200 minutes or of zone two cardio, which is kind of, you know, moderately hard, but not excessively hard. But I love this every day theme. Because whenever I do that, the questions that come back are, well, what if I take a long hike on the weekends? And so people start negotiating.
嗯，在过去几年里，大家的焦虑水平都上升了。这也会产生影响。在高度紧张和焦虑的情况下，我们的记忆力会减退。所以，你知道，要回答这个问题其实很困难。人们会说，好吧，告诉我每天需要多少运动量。好吧，30到40分钟。我更喜欢每天做到这一点。我一直告诉大家，根据数据，每周应该进行150到200分钟的二氧化碳训练，也就是适度但不过度的锻炼。但我更喜欢每天都运动的理念。因为每当我这么说时，人们就会问，那要是我周末长时间徒步怎么办？于是大家开始讨价还价。
There's something that's very powerful about non-negotiable every day. Yes. Sun in your eyes every day, even through cloud cover, exercise for 30 for 45 minutes. Cold shower every day. Every day. You know, my understanding of the literature is that somewhere in our 50s or 60s, we start noticing little hiccups in memory. Yeah. For some people younger, for some people later. Yeah. But I have to imagine that doing the exercise throughout one's entire life is going to help offset some of this. Absolutely. Of the BDNF and other downstream effects. Yeah.
有一些每天坚持的不可妥协的习惯是非常有力量的。比如说，每天都要晒太阳，即使在多云的日子里；每天锻炼30到45分钟；每天冲冷水澡。根据我的理解，研究表明，大约在我们五六十岁的时候，记忆力可能会出现小问题。对有些人来说，这个情况可能会更早或更晚发生。但我相信，终生坚持锻炼有助于缓解这些问题。毫无疑问，这与脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）及其他下游效应有关。
Yeah. I mean, that's what it suggests. One of my favorite studies. And then I want to get back to you wanted you invited me to share some of my unpublished data. Yes. Absolutely. Long-term exercise. But first, I want to share one of my favorite studies, which is a longitudinal study done in Swedish women. And this was published in 2018. And what they did was back in the 1960s, they found Swedish women, 300 Swedish women in their 40s. And they characterized them as low fit midfit high fit. Okay. And then 40 years later, they came back and found these women. They let them do live their lives. And they asked what happened to these women as a function of whether they were low fit midfit high fit in their 40s.
好的。我的意思是，这就是它所暗示的。我最喜欢的一项研究之一。这项研究是一项在瑞典女性中进行的纵向研究，发表在2018年。他们在1960年代找到了300名40多岁的瑞典女性，并将她们分为低适能、中等适能和高适能三组。然后，40年后，他们又找到这些女性，让她们自然生活，并研究这些女性在40多岁时低、中、高适能状态对她们后来生活的影响。对了，我想回应一下你之前让我分享我的一些未发表数据的邀请，是的，肯定会的，我等会儿也会分享一些关于长期锻炼的内容。
They're now in their 80s. And what they found was that relative to the low fit or midfit women, the women that were high fit, gained nine more years of good cognition later in life. Now, this is not a randomized controlled study. This is a correlational study. But does it agree with everything that we've been talking about today? Yes. Does it agree with this idea that the women that were high fit were giving their brains this bubble bath? Maybe not every day, but very, very regularly for that entire 40 years. And that built up their big, fat, beautiful hippocampi. Yes, it does. So it's from my favorite studies.
现在她们都已步入80多岁。研究发现，相较于体能较低或中等的女性，体能较好的女性在晚年的良好认知状态多了九年。不过，这并不是一项随机对照研究，而是一项相关性研究。但是，这是否符合我们今天讨论的所有内容？是的。这是否符合这样的观点：体能较好的女性并不是每天，但在过去的40年里非常频繁地给她们的大脑做“泡泡浴”，从而培养了她们大而健康的海马体？是的，这确实符合。因此，这是我最喜欢的研究之一。
Yeah. Another cause for getting the exercising consistently. Yes. Yeah. And there's no, I am impressed by this 10 minute walk and the improvements in mood from just a 10 minute walk. Yeah. But again, I think that daily repetition. Also, I have to imagine has effects on the very pathways that allow plasticity. This is something we do in the realm of neuroplasticity we don't often hear about or think about. Even as neuroscientists, which is that the pathways for engaging plasticity probably can be probably I'm speculating here can be made better by engaging in the sorts of behavior, this stimulate plasticity.
是的。持续锻炼的另一个原因，是这样的。是的。我对仅仅是散步10分钟就能改善心情感到印象深刻。是的。但我认为，每天的重复也会对那些允许大脑可塑性的途径产生影响。我想象这是可能的。这是我们在神经可塑性领域中所做的事情，但我们并不常听到或思考。即使是作为神经科学家，我们也不常考虑这一点，那就是参与可塑性活动的途径可能通过参与这些刺激可塑性的行为而得到改善。我在这里猜测。
In other words, if one gets better calming themselves down under stress, those circuits get better at doing that. There's a neural circuits gain proficiency. Yeah. And so because blood vessels can grow, capillaries can grow in the brain, you can imagine that more pumping of blood to the brain delivery of these various muscle and liver factors would also establish larger or more efficient portals to getting that stuff there. So you could imagine a kind of an amplifying effect of exercise. And again, I'm speculating here, but I've seen this over and over again in colleagues, the ones who exercise consistently seem to be really, really smart and doing amazing work well into their 80s and 90s.
换句话说，如果一个人能在压力下更好地平静自己，那么他们的大脑回路就会变得更加擅长于此。这些神经回路会变得更有能力。由于大脑中的血管和毛细血管可以生长，你可以想象，更多血液输送到大脑，再加上来自肌肉和肝脏的各种因子，也会建立起更大或更高效的渠道来传递这些物质。因此，你可以想象运动会带来一种放大的效果。我在这里是推测，但我在许多同事身上反复看到了这一点：那些坚持锻炼的人，即使到了八九十岁，似乎依然非常聪明，并取得了惊人的成就。
And the ones who aren't, some of whom actually pride themselves on how little they exercise, they get worse over time. You see them each meeting each decade and I'm not poking fun at them at all. It's actually quite hard to see. And they're kind of a fading light. They're starting to flicker. So there is this incredible relationship between body vitality and brain vitality. That is of course is not an excuse for spending all day in the gym. The gym rats, I enjoy working out so I can imagine doing that. But that doesn't make us smarter. Unfortunately, you actually have to do the cognitive work also.
那些不锻炼的人中，有些甚至以不运动为荣，随着时间的推移，他们的健康状况会变得更糟。每隔十年在会议上见到他们一次，我一点也不是在嘲笑他们，事实上，看着他们的状态变差是很难过的。他们就像是逐渐变暗的灯光，开始闪烁不定。身体活力与大脑活力之间有着一种不可思议的联系。当然，这并不是整天泡在健身房的借口。虽然我也很喜欢健身，能想象花很多时间在里面，但这并不会让我们变得更聪明。不幸的是，我们还需要进行认知方面的努力。
It's not just exercise. I'd love to hear about some of these new, unpublished data. Yeah. When I jumped into the exercise work, everybody was studying people 65 or older because that's when cognitive decline begins. And if the idea is exercise can help you with your cognition, then makes sense. However, I thought, well, you know, that it's great. There's lots of work there. I wanted to know what happens in people in their 40s and the 50s, maybe even their 30s and their 20s. Why? Because that's when we as humans are able, ready willing and able to increase our exercise. And gets us set up to build our brains as we go into our 60s.
这不仅仅是关于锻炼。我很想听听一些新的、未发表的数据。当我开始研究锻炼时，大家都在关注年龄在65岁或以上的人，因为这时候认知能力开始下降。如果认为锻炼可以帮助提升认知能力，那么研究这个年龄段是有道理的。然而，我想，这很好，但我也想了解人在40多岁和50多岁时会发生什么，甚至是在30多岁和20多岁的时候。为什么呢？因为在人类的这些年龄段，我们有能力、有准备并愿意增加锻炼，这有助于我们在进入60岁时建立更强健的大脑。
And so the first study that I did looked at low fit participants from their 30s to mid 50s. And we wanted to ask this question, how much exercise do you really need to start seeing benefits? Do you see benefits? Or maybe you have to wait until you start seeing cognitive decline to get benefits. That was one of the theories out there. And so that's what I wanted to do. And so what we did was three months of two to three times a week cardio. It was a spin, spin class. So spin classes are great for cardio.
我做的第一个研究是观察身体健康水平较低的参与者，他们的年龄从30多岁到50多岁。我们想探讨一个问题：究竟需要多少锻炼才能开始看到好处？能不能看到好处？或者说是不是必须等到开始出现认知能力下降时才能看到好处？这是一种存在的理论，而我想验证这个观点。我们的研究方法是让参与者进行为期三个月的心血管锻炼，每周进行两到三次，这项锻炼主要是动感单车课程。动感单车课程对心血管锻炼非常有帮助。
And the comparison group was two to three times a week of competitive video scrabble. So no heart rate changed, but they had to come into my lab and being a group, just like they were in a group for the spin class. We touched them cognitively at the beginning of the end of the session. What we found was two to three times a week of cardio. In these people, there are low fit, which means specifically that they were exercising less than 30 minutes a week for the three months previous to the experiment. So they went from that to two to three times a week of spin class.
对比组每周玩两到三次竞技视频拼字游戏。因此他们的心率没有变化，但他们需要进入我的实验室，并像参加动感单车课程时一样，加入一个小组。我们在课程开始和结束时对他们的认知进行了测试。我们发现，每周进行两到三次有氧运动。实验中的这些人起初体能较差，具体来说，他们在实验前的三个月里每周锻炼时间不到30分钟。然后他们从这种状态转变为每周参加两到三次动感单车课程。
And what we found was changes in baseline rates of their positive mood states went up relative to the video scrabble group. Their body image got more positive because they were exercising, which is great. And really important, their motivation to exercise went up significantly compared to the video scrabble group, which is great. So the more you exercise, the more motivated you are to exercise. What about cognition, what changed in the cognitive circuits of their brain? Number one, we got improved performance on the stoop task.
我们发现，他们的积极情绪状态的基线水平相对于视频拼字游戏组有所提高。因为运动，他们的身体形象变得更积极，这很棒。而且非常重要的是，他们锻炼的动机相对于视频拼字游戏组显著增加，这也很棒。这意味着你运动得越多，你锻炼的动力就越大。那么，他们的大脑认知回路有了什么变化呢？首先，他们在斯特鲁普任务中的表现有所改善。
But we're headed towards my favorite structure, which is the hippocampus. What we found was improved performance on both a recognition memory task, which was a memory encoding task. And that is, can you differentiate similar items that we're asking you to remember? And spatial episodic memory task where we had them play one of those doom-like games when they went into this spatial maze and they had to do things in a virtual city. Their performance there got better, which is very, very classically dependent on the hippocampus.
我们正在走向我最喜欢的大脑结构——海马体。我们发现，在一种识别记忆任务上表现有所改善，这是一种记忆编码任务。这也就是说，你能否区分我们要求你记住的相似物品。此外，在空间情节记忆任务中，他们需要玩类似于《毁灭战士》的游戏，当他们进入这个空间迷宫时，需要在一个虚拟城市中执行任务。他们在这方面的表现变得更好，而这通常高度依赖于海马体。
So this, it was so satisfying to do this study because I've been wanting to answer this question. What is a minimum amount or a doable amount of exercise that will get you these cognitive benefits? And now I can say in 30 to 50-year-olds that are low fit two to three times a week, is that doable? Absolutely. Will it be hard if you're low fit? Yeah, it's going to be challenging, but absolutely doable. And so, you know, that, that is, it makes sense with all of the mechanisms that we are, I didn't study the mechanisms just to be clear, but with all the mechanisms that we are imagining are playing a role here that absolutely makes sense and it is doable.
所以，进行这项研究让我感到非常满意，因为我一直想回答这个问题：获得这些认知益处的最低或可行的运动量是多少？现在我可以说，对于30到50岁体能较差的人来说，每周进行两到三次运动是否可行？绝对可以。对体能较差的人来说，会有挑战，但完全可以做到。这与我们想象中可能发挥作用的所有机制相符，虽然我没有具体研究这些机制，但从我们的推测来看，这确实是有道理的，而且是可行的。
This is not like you have to become marathon runner to get any of these benefits. This is, you have to start moving your body on a regular basis two to three times a week. And so, I love that for its realness. How long are those sessions again? 45 minutes. 45 minutes. Yeah, 45 minutes. It's a typical spin kind of class. There's a warm up for five minutes and a cool down for five minutes. So it's really 30, 35 minutes, 35 minutes of, you know, they're really pushing you.
你不需要成为马拉松选手就能获得这些好处。只需要每周定期活动身体两到三次。我喜欢这种真实感。那么这些锻炼时间有多长呢？45分钟。是的，45分钟。这是一种典型的动感单车课程，包括5分钟的热身和5分钟的放松时间，所以实际上是30到35分钟的强度运动。
Yeah. So, and so their breathing reasonably hard. Heart rate, heart rate is up. Heart rate is definitely up. Yeah. Yeah. I find that all of those results are really interesting. The result showing improvement in motivation, text or size is interesting because it gets back to this issue of kind of a self-amplifying effect. And the neuroscientists in me wants to think about kind of pre-motor circuits and the fact that, you know, we have a motor system that can obviously do things like lift cups and walk and run if we want to or need to, but that it's possible to create a kind of anticipatory activity in our nervous system where our body and craves a certain stimulus.
好的，所以他们的呼吸比较急促。心率，心率加快。心率确实加快了。是的，是的。我觉得这些结果都非常有趣。显示动机提高的结果很有趣，因为它涉及到自我增强效应的问题。作为一个神经科学家，我想到了运动前区域，以及我们的运动系统显然可以做的事情，比如拿杯子、走路和跑步，当我们想要或需要时，但也可以在我们的神经系统中创造一种预期的活动，我们的身体渴望某种刺激。
You mentioned the cold and how you have to crave the cold. The weather not, that's the adrenaline and the dopamine, etc. or whether or not somebody who exercises started going from zero less than 30 minutes per week to two to three times a week, 45 minutes as you described for this study. I've had that experience before of if I'm jaw, the cardio that's I tend to battle the most and I like, I love lifting heavy objects. At least heavy for me. I'm happy to go to the gym every other day and just lift heavy objects for an hour. It just makes me happy. I like the way it feels. Yeah. And I've been doing it since I was in my teens, so 30 years. Cardio is a little bit trickier. I like to run, but if I stop running for a little while, I find it very hard to get back into.
你提到了寒冷，并说要渴望寒冷的感觉。天气倒是其次，主要是来源于肾上腺素和多巴胺等因素。或者说，一个从每周运动不到30分钟开始锻炼的人，逐渐增加到每周锻炼两到三次，每次45分钟，就像你为这个研究所描述的那样。我以前也有过这样的经历：如果是有氧运动，我往往需要更多的努力才能坚持下去，而我更喜欢举重。至少对我来说，这些重物够沉的了。我乐于每隔一天去健身房，愉快地举重一小时。这让我感到开心，我喜欢这种感觉。是的，从十几岁开始，我就一直这样做，已经有30年了。做有氧运动就有点棘手了。我喜欢跑步，但如果停下不跑一段时间，就很难再重新开始。
Yeah. But if I start running three times a week for 30 to 45 minutes and I do this pretty consistently on the days I don't wait train, I find that I start to crave it. It's almost as if my body needs that in order to, I always say clear out the cobwebs, but my mind doesn't function as well. Clearly, now I understand why and why exercise helps. But also my physically, I almost feel like my body needs to engage in that movement. Like the pre-motor circuits are kind of revving, like revving the engine or car while it's in park. Yeah.
是的。但如果我每周跑步三次，每次跑30到45分钟，并在不进行力量训练的日子里坚持这样做，我会发现自己开始渴望跑步。就好像我的身体需要这样做来"清理脑袋"一样，否则我的思维就不那么清晰。现在我明白了为什么运动有帮助。不仅如此，我几乎感觉我的身体需要这种运动，就像启动引擎一样，预备运动神经回路似乎在准备行动。
Yeah. So the motivation to exercise obviously could be multifaceted. It could be purely psychological. But do you think there's any reason to speculate at least or believe that we can build an anticipatory, reverberatory activity into our motor system? Yeah.
好的。锻炼的动机显然是多方面的，可能仅仅是心理因素。但是，你认为是否有理由去推测或相信我们能够在运动系统中建立一种预期的、回响的活动呢？好的。
Yeah. You know, I agree with that because I also have those same kinds of thoughts and I do have anticipatory exercise when I can't do it. So I just got back from a week and a half in Paris where I got to do a book launch of my last book, Good Anxiety. And I really, I walked around a lot, but I did not do my exercise for that whole week and a half. But there was a lot of stress because I had to do all these interviews in French. So I gave myself a break.
是的。我也同意这种看法，因为我也有类似的想法。每当我不能锻炼时，我都会做一些预期练习。我刚刚从巴黎回到家，那边待了一周半，期间进行了我新书《好焦虑》的发布。我在巴黎走了很多路，但整整那周半的时间，我都没有进行常规锻炼。期间压力很大，因为我得用法语做一堆采访。因此，我给自己放了个假。
You speak French? I speak French. Yeah. Otherwise it would be really stressful. Yeah. That would be really stressful. Now, then I'd be really impressed. Then I would definitely start exercising. Actually, I would follow your morning routine to a team, but okay, very impressive nonetheless. So, but I got back and you know, coming back this direction from Paris, I live in New York, is much easier. And so I was able to get get up at a normal time the next day.
你会说法语吗？我会说法语。是的，不然这会很紧张。是的，那样会很紧张。如果我不懂法语，我就会很佩服你。我肯定会开始锻炼。我会完全跟随你的晨间习惯，不过，无论如何还是很令人印象深刻。但是我回来了，从巴黎回到纽约的这趟旅程要轻松得多。所以第二天我就能正常时间起床了。
And that exercise session that first day, it's like, okay, I'm back in my home. I'm back in my environment. And it felt so good. It's like, I want it to come back. And I know it's because I worked up over years. Now I could truthfully say seven days a week, but it was, you know, first it was four to five, then it was five to six. And yeah, seven, but that includes a yoga day or sometimes I have to do it for 10 minutes instead of 30 because I have to leave. But, but that habit of you do that, even for five minutes, you do either the wait 10 minute thing or five minute thing or or stretch.
第一天的锻炼感觉就像回到了家，回到了自己熟悉的环境，感觉非常好。我希望这种感觉能一直持续下去。我知道这是因为我多年坚持下来的结果。现在我可以自豪地说每周锻炼七天，但其实最开始是每周四到五天，然后是五到六天，后来才到七天。不过这包括了一天的瑜伽，有时因为要出门，我只能练习10分钟而不是30分钟。但养成这样的习惯，即使只是五分钟，你也可以选择做十分钟的锻炼、五分钟的运动或伸展活动。
That is a tiny habit. Is that somebody at Stanford that invented this idea of tiny habits? I thought it was. Well, we've got a number of people there. There's, and I'm, I apologize in advance to all the people I need to collect in this statement. But I'm happy to put in the comments, folks. BJ Fogg is there has done yes. And that's who I, yeah, BJ's done really a great work. And then James Cleary wrote a book about habits and I has has a very popular newsletter about habits.
那是一个小习惯。这是不是斯坦福大学的某个人发明的 "小习惯" 这个想法？我原以为是这样的。嗯，这儿有好几个人参与。我要提前对在这段话中遗漏的人表示抱歉。不过，我很乐意在评论中补充相关人员。BJ Fogg 确实在那里做了出色的工作，是的。我想到了他。此外，詹姆斯·克利尔（James Clear）也写了一本关于习惯的书，并且他有一份很受欢迎的关于习惯的通讯。
We've done an episode about habits that covers some of their work and some of the more laboratory ish. Yeah. Not ish, laboratory science peer reviewed work on it. Yes. Daily behaviors also daily behaviors performed at roughly the same time on day. Yeah. I mean, one thing we know for sure is that the circadian system is part of our nervous systems way of anticipating when things will happen.
我们已经制作了一集关于习惯的节目，内容涵盖了一些相关的研究，还有一些实验室性质的、经过同行评审的科学研究。是的，这些日常行为通常每天会在大致相同的时间进行。我是说，有一点我们可以确定，那就是昼夜节律系统是我们神经系统中用来预测事情何时发生的一部分。
Yeah. Just what will happen I'm telling you things you obviously know already. But for the audience performing your exercise at roughly the same time each day will make it easier. Yes. As opposed to just saying I'm going to do it seven days a week sometime today. But of course getting it done sometime is better than not getting it done. Yes.
是的。我现在告诉你的事情你显然已经知道了。不过对于听众来说，每天大约在同一时间段锻炼会更容易做到。是的。相比于只是随便说“我今天某个时候会锻炼”，固定的时间更加有效。当然，能在某个时间段完成锻炼总比不锻炼要好。对的。
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, those are impressive effects. And I love that you're starting to look in populations that are a bit younger. Not because some of these older populations aren't important. But I think that building good habits in across one's entire life is really what it's about. Right. As I always say with anything related to longevity or offsetting an age-related decline, we don't know.
当然。当然。嗯，那些效果令人印象深刻。我很高兴你开始关注更年轻的人群。这并不是说年长人群不重要，而是我认为贯穿一生的好习惯才是关键。对吧。正如我总是说的，关于长寿或抵消与年龄相关的衰退，我们并不知道。
It's hard to know if things work because there's no within subject control. But what we also know for sure is that you don't want to be the control experiment. Right. Exactly. You absolutely don't want to be the control experiment. Especially for something that's purely behavioral. I mean, you're not talking about ingesting a particular supplement. You're not talking about changing your diet in any way.
这很难判断事情是否有效，因为缺乏同一主体内的对照实验。但我们也非常确定的一点是，你不想成为对照实验对象。对，没错，你绝对不想成为对照实验对象。尤其是在涉及纯行为的事情上。我是说，你不是在讨论摄入某种特定的补充剂，也不是在谈论以任何方式改变你的饮食。
But I am curious. Do you know diet is a very barbed wire topic on the internet, which diets, whether or not they work, etc. But in general, do any of these studies, do they evaluate whether or not people change their eating habits when they start to exercise more? Yeah. I think I've seen one study that controlled for that. But I feel for them because it's hard enough to get people to exercise at the level and at the time. And you know, that you need for your study. If you also ask them, okay, fill out the survey to tell us exactly what you ate all day.
但我很好奇。你知道吗，在互联网上，饮食一直是一个非常敏感的话题，比如各种饮食方法以及它们是否有效等等。但总的来说，有没有研究评估过，人在开始多运动后，是否会改变饮食习惯？我想我看过一项研究有控制这个因素。但我理解他们的处境，因为仅仅让人们在研究所需的时间和强度下进行锻炼已经很难。如果你还让他们填写调查问卷，准确记录他们一天吃了什么，那就更难了。
They're going to say forget, forget you. I'm not joining your study. So it's a critical question. And again, there's only been one that I've seen. And the evidence was that that diets got better when they, you know, less processed foods when they did adhere to this exercise. But a lot more information needs to be gathered in that realm.
他们会说，忘了吧，算了吧，不参加你的研究。所以这个问题很关键。而且到目前为止，我只看过一个研究。证据表明，当他们坚持这种锻炼时，饮食变得更好了，比如吃更少的加工食品。但是在这个方面还需要收集更多的信息。
The second study that I wanted to share, unpublished, we're writing it up right now, is part two of that study that I just described, which was the low fit people. Next we moved to midfit people. It's like, what about us? You know, we're already exercising. How am I going to benefit from increasing my exercise? So here again, we collaborated with a great spin studio that had a whole bunch of midfit people that by our definition were exercising two to three times a week on a regular basis. That's great.
我想分享的第二项研究尚未发表，我们正在写报告。这是我刚刚提到的那项研究的第二部分，之前研究的是运动量较少的人。这次，我们关注的是中等运动量的人。就像有人会问：“那我们呢？我们已经在锻炼了，如果增加运动量，我将会有什么好处？”为此，我们与一家很棒的动感单车工作室合作，该工作室有很多在我们定义下属于中等运动量的人，他们通常每周运动两到三次。这真不错。
All you people out there that are doing that, you should know you're already benefiting your brain. But our question was, what if we invited them to exercise as much as they wanted at the spin studio for three months from, you know, two to three times all the way up to seven times a week? And let's just see what happened. And the control group, we asked them not to change their exercise. And so what we ended up with was a nice big array of starting with midfit people that exercise between staying at two to three times a week all the way up to seven times a week.
对所有在做这些事情的人来说，你们应该知道，你们的大脑已经在受益了。我们的疑问是，如果我们邀请他们在动感单车健身房进行最多三个月的锻炼，可以从每周两到三次，一直到七次，那会有什么变化呢？与此同时，我们要求对照组不要改变他们的锻炼习惯。结果，我们得到了一组很大的数据，从那些中等健身水平的人开始，他们每周锻炼两到三次，一直到七次。
And the bottom line from that study is every drop of sweat counted. That is the more you change and you increase your workout up to seven times a week, the better your mood was, you had lower, lower amounts of depression, anxiety, higher amounts of good, good affect. And the better your hippocampal memory was with the more you worked out, again, this was for three months. So I love that too because it gives power to those of us that are, you know, regularly exercising and wondering, do I really need to, I mean, is it really going to help me?
研究的结论是，每一滴汗水都很重要。也就是说，你每周运动的频率提高到七次时，心情会更好，抑郁和焦虑减少，而积极的情绪增加。同时，随着运动量的增加，你的海马体记忆也会得到改善，这项研究持续了三个月。我很喜欢这一点，因为它为那些经常锻炼并怀疑运动是否真的有用的人带来了信心。
And the answer is yes. I mean, not all of us can exercise go go to a spin class seven times a week. But I love the message that our body is responsive to that. And you can get better hippocampal function, better overall baseline mood affect with a higher level. So it works for the midfit people as well. Fantastic. The more I learned from you, the more I've been starting to conceptualize the brain as an organ that is privileged in so many ways, you know, has this unique blood brain barrier, has this incredible quality of being able to predict things and its job mainly is, of course, to predict things among other functions, of course.
答案是肯定的。我的意思是，并不是我们所有人都能每周七天去参加动感单车课程。但我喜欢这样的观点：我们的身体是会对此作出积极回应的。通过提高运动水平，你可以提升海马体的功能，并改善整体的基础情绪状态。所以，这对那些中等健身水平的人也很有效。太棒了。我从你这里学到的越多，我就越开始把大脑看作一个在很多方面都很特殊的器官。你知道，它有独特的血脑屏障，能预测事情的惊人能力，当然，它的主要工作就是预测事情，当然还有其他功能。
But that our brain isn't necessarily going to stay stable or get better over time, that it needs a signal. Yeah. It isn't sufficient to just say that we can't take it for granted, that our brain is actually an organ that requires a signal in order to maintain its own function. And it sounds like enhanced blood flow in these pathways that you described earlier, these two pathways are at least among the more critical signals. I've tempted now to move my frequency of cardiovascular exercise from I confess it's about three days, 35 minutes lately, and it should be more to daily.
但是，我们的大脑不一定会随着时间的推移保持稳定或变得更好，它需要一个信号。是的。仅仅说我们不能想当然地认为大脑会照常运转是不够的，因为大脑实际上是一个需要信号来维持其功能的器官。而你之前提到的这两条路径中的血流量增加，似乎是这些信号中最重要的之一。我现在非常想把我做心血管锻炼的频率从最近的每周三天、每次35分钟，增加到每天。
There's something really again really special about daily because it's non-negotiable. You just do it. And it sounds like if one word to do higher intensity exercise, in a spin class I've never taken a spin class, but I've seen their times when they're standing up on the bike and pedaling very hard. So that is included in these kinds of workouts, right? Absolutely. I mean, that's what the instructor is doing. I cannot control. We did my monitor heart rate of all the subjects, and it was clearly, you know, compared to the video Scrabble, it was highly significant.
每天锻炼真的很特别，因为它是不容商量的，你就是去做。如果要进行高强度锻炼，比如在动感单车课上，我虽然从未参加过，但看到过他们有时会站起来用力蹬车。在这种锻炼中，这种方式是包括在内的，对吗？绝对是的。我是说，那就是教练所做的。我无法控制，但我们确实监控了所有参与者的心率，相比于视频中的拼字游戏，它的效果非常显著。
I would hope so. Yes. I guess it depends on how intense that game of Scrabble is. Could we just briefly talk about mindset and affirmations? You've talked a bit before about affirmations. And as you mentioned, the beautiful work of my colleague at Stanford, Alia Crom, and who we can summarize her work pretty simply, although we won't do it complete justice, but she's already been on the podcast that just to say that one's beliefs about a behavior also impact the outcomes of that behavior.
我希望如此。是的。我想这取决于那场拼字游戏有多激烈。我们可以简单谈一下心态和肯定语吗？你之前提到过肯定语。正如你提到过的，我在斯坦福的同事Alia Crom的精彩研究。虽然我们不能完全展现她工作的全部，但是她已经在播客上分享过了。简单来说，一个人对某个行为的信念也会影响该行为的结果。
If you learn a lot of true facts about stress being good for you, then you will experience stress as better for you than if you only focus on or learn about the negative effects of stress. If you learn about the positive effects of exercise, you actually derive greater benefit from exercise believe it or not. It's incredible, incredible effects, but they make sense when you understand what the brain is doing, which is a lot of this predictive coding and mindsets don't seem as mysterious and woo anymore, once you understand what the brain is really doing.
如果你学习了很多关于压力有益的真实事实，那么你感受到的压力会比仅仅关注或了解压力的负面影响时要好。如果你了解运动的积极影响，你实际上会从运动中获得更大的益处，这真的很难以置信。这些效果很不可思议，但当你了解大脑在做什么时，它们就变得可以理解，因为大脑正在进行很多预测编码。当你明白大脑真正做的事情后，这种心理状态就不再显得神秘和模糊了。
But what is, if any, the value of affirmation of telling yourself something positive about yourself or exercise on not the exercise itself, but on mood, self-image, memory, and brain function? Yeah. So, you know, I looked into this because I am also a certified exercise instructor in the form of exercise that I teach is called Intensati, that it's a form of exercise that was developed by this amazing physicist instructor, Patricia Moreno, and she combined physical movements from kickbox and dance and yoga and martial arts with positive spoken affirmations.
这段话的大意是：肯定自我、对自己说一些积极的话语，或者锻炼（这里指锻炼带来的影响，而不是锻炼本身）对情绪、自我形象、记忆力和大脑功能有何价值呢？我研究过这个问题，因为我也是一名认证的健身教练，我教授的健身形式叫做Intensati。这个形式是由令人敬佩的物理学健身教练Patricia Moreno开发的，她把跆拳道、舞蹈、瑜伽和武术的动作与积极的口头肯定词结合了起来。
So, each move of your punching back and forth as you would do in a kickbox class, you don't just punch, you say something like, I am strong now, which every punch is associated with the word. And, you know, you can create your own series of affirmations with the moves that you put together. And the first time I did it, I just wandered into her class, I didn't know what it was, and it felt idiotic. It's like, what did I, I came into the wrong class, I clear, I don't want to come into this class. But then, I saw they didn't care whether I thought they were, they look silly, saying these affirmations, not saying yelling these affirmations out loud while doing the choreography at the same time.
所以，每当你像在有氧拳击课上那样来回出拳时，不仅仅是简单地打拳，而是要在每次出拳时说出像“我现在很强壮”这样的词语。每次出拳都与一个词语联系在一起。你还可以根据你编排的动作创造自己的肯定语句。我第一次体验这种课时，只是漫不经心地走进了她的课堂，也不知道这是一种什么样的课，感觉有点傻，心想我是不是进错课了，我一点都不想来上这种课。但是后来，我看到其他人并不在乎我是否觉得他们可笑，他们自信地大声喊出那些肯定语句，同时配合动作练习。
And then I tried it, you know, okay, I didn't yell out, I kind of whispered it at first. And then, but by the end, I was really yelling it out. There's something about the declaration using your own voice of saying things that you, you know, don't often say yourself, like, I'm strong, I'm inspired, I believe I will succeed, are all the kinds of affirmations you say. And you walk out of that class, or I walked out of that class thinking, I feel really good now, man, I can't wait to come back to this class, which is why ultimately, teacher training to be able to teach that class.
然后我试了一下，你知道，我一开始没有大喊，只是有点小声地说。然后，到最后，我真的大声喊出来了。有些话通常自己不会说，但用自己的声音说出来，比如“我很坚强，我很有灵感，我相信我会成功”，这样的正面肯定句。走出那个课堂时，或者说我走出那个课堂时，我觉得真的很好，我迫不及待地想再回到这个课堂，这也是为什么我最终去参加老师培训，以便能够教授这门课程。
And so, I started to look into what was known about affirmations. And they were never combined with physical activity. But it was clear that there was a literature showing that positive affirmations, saying them or reading them, could change mood in the same ways we're talking about, you know, Alia's crumbs work if you have this, this, it's a belief. Once you start saying these things, these are not, you know, difficult things to believe. But it's amazing how much you don't say these kinds of things to yourself or with your own voice.
于是，我开始研究关于肯定语的相关知识。研究显示，肯定语通常没有与身体活动结合使用。但很明显，有大量文献表明，念出或阅读积极的肯定语，可以以我们所谈论的方式改变情绪，就像Alia的"面包屑"理论一样，关键在于信念。一旦你开始说这些话，它们并不难相信。但令人惊讶的是，你会发现自己很少用自己的声音对自己说这些积极的话。
You might say them about somebody else. Oh, you're strong, you're so smart. Do you say that about yourself? And that's the thing about the self-affirmations. It really gets you into a habit of saying good things about yourself. And then you start to remember, start to realize, oh my God, I'm so mean to myself. I have lots of negative thoughts going on about, about myself and my head. And which was part of the other reason why I loved this, this particular form of exercise.
你可能会这样称赞其他人：“哦，你很强壮，你很聪明。” 那你会对自己这样说吗？这就是自我肯定的意义所在。它真的让你养成习惯，对自己说好话。然后你开始记得，开始意识到，“天哪，我对自己太苛刻了。” 我脑子里有很多关于自己的负面想法。这也是我喜欢这种特定练习形式的部分原因。
So what you get in intensity is the mood boost from the positive spoken affirmations together with all the other brain and affect boosts that we've been talking about for this whole podcast from the exercise because it's a sweaty workout as well. So interesting. There's a book, I confess, I haven't read it, but I have had the pleasure of having a discussion with a psychologist from, I believe is at University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, Ethan Cross wrote a book called Chatter, which focuses on the fact that so much of our inner dialogue, it is indeed negative.
你所获得的强度来自积极的语言肯定带来的情绪提升，以及我们在整个播客中讨论过的、由于运动而带来的其他大脑和情感提升，因为这也是一次出汗的锻炼。这很有趣。有一本书，我承认我还没读过，但我有幸与一位心理学家讨论过，这位心理学家好像是在安娜堡的密歇根大学工作的，Ethan Cross写了一本名为《Chatter》的书，专注于我们内心对话中有很多确实是负面的这一事实。
He certainly wasn't the first to point that out, but that explicit statements to counter that negative chatter, I believe is one of the hallmarks of, of readjusting one's own, not just internal reference frame, but actually self-image generally. And it's a fascinating and I think a very important area of psychology and neuroscience because, and I acknowledge this, we're talking about this too, laboratory neuroscientists who, record from neurons and label neurons and look at stuff down the microscope, we are now deep in the territory, in the deep water of what some of our colleagues and people who think about neuroscience would consider, like really out there on the kind of subjective edges. And yet, I think it's worth pointing out that, you know, the brain does all these things, it's responsible for simple reflexes and motor behaviors, but also high level conceptual ideas about the universe, what it might look like in 10 years or 100 years or a thousand years, but also high level conceptual understanding of what we are and what we are about.
他当然不是第一个指出这一点的人，但我相信，用明确的陈述来对抗那些消极的声音，是调整自我认知和整体自我形象的标志之一。这是心理学和神经科学中一个既迷人又非常重要的领域。我承认，对于那些在实验室中研究神经元、标记神经元并在显微镜下观察事物的神经科学家来说，我们现在触及了他们认为仅仅是主观边缘的深水区。然而，我认为值得指出的是，大脑不仅负责简单的反射和运动行为，还承担着对宇宙的高级概念理解，例如未来十年、一百年甚至一千年后的样子，同时也包括对自身及其意义的高级概念理解。
And so, even though it might seem a little bit out on the fringes, dare I say, I think that these are some of the more important untried landscapes of neuroscience. And I just want to acknowledge my appreciation for the fact that I'm going to connect the dots here and say, you went from somebody who didn't exercise, who went on this rafting trip, that discovered exercise and its benefits for your grant writing and then on and on and on and then became a certified. Exercise instructor. So, you don't do anything halfway. It's clear. I'd like to touch on something you mentioned earlier, but we haven't been to at all in any depth, which is meditation. You mentioned this tea meditation. You had a publication recently on a 10-minute meditation. Yes. Right? Maybe you could tell us about this 10 minute meditation.
因此，尽管这听起来可能有点超前，甚至有些人在边缘地带尝试过，但我敢说，我认为这些是神经科学中一些重要但未被尝试的领域。我想表达我的感谢，因为我要在这里连点成线了：你原本是不锻炼的人，然后参加了一次漂流旅行，发现了锻炼及其对你写资助申请的好处，然后逐步发展，最终成为了一名认证的健身教练。显然，你做事情从不半途而废。我想谈谈你之前提到但我们还没有深入谈及的话题：冥想。你提到了茶冥想，最近你发表了一篇关于10分钟冥想的文章。是的，对吧？也许你可以给我们介绍一下这个10分钟冥想。
Yeah. It seems like such a tractable amount of time. And then if you would maybe tell us a little bit about the tea meditation, but it sounds like you've discovered a close to minimum threshold and meditation that can really benefit us. So, maybe you could tell us about that study. So, the study was, as you very stutately pointed out, very practical study. Just 10 minutes, not 30 minutes, not an hour meditation. That's too hard. 10 minutes guided meditation, they logged into a site so we can tell that they logged in and they listened to it's a body scan, very basic, but easy to follow kind of meditation. And we asked them to do it. How often? Daily. Seven days a week, you know, just 10 minutes a day.
好。这似乎是个很容易控制的时间段。那么，能不能请你跟我们讲讲茶冥想呢？听起来你发现了一种接近最低限度的冥想形式，能够真正带给我们好处。也许你可以介绍一下那个研究。正如你非常精准地指出的，这是一个非常实用的研究。只需要10分钟，不是30分钟，也不是一小时的冥想，那太难了。只需10分钟的引导冥想，他们登录一个网站，这样我们就能知道他们登录了，然后他们听了一种身体扫描冥想，非常基础，但很容易跟随。我们要求他们做到什么频率呢？每天。每周七天，每天只需10分钟。
And the most shocking thing about this study is that we got more adhesion adherence to the 10 minute daily meditation than the 10 minute daily podcast listening, which was our control. So, the highest retention rate I've ever gotten in any this kind of study that I've done, exercise or meditation, they wanted to do it. 10 minutes a day, it was great. I'm going to just start leading meditations for three hours as I was doing three hour podcasts. So, we looked at cognitive effects before and after this, it was eight weeks of daily, it was actually 12 minute meditation, 12 minutes of body scan meditation. And what we found was significant decreases in stress response. So, we did the stress test to see how you responded to an unexpected, stressful situation. The meditators did much better. Their mood was better and their cognitive performance was also better.
这项研究中最令人震惊的是，与我们作为对照组的10分钟日常播客收听相比，人们更能坚持每天10分钟的冥想练习。这是我在以往所做的类似研究中，无论是锻炼还是冥想，所见过的最高的保留率。他们真的很愿意做到每天10分钟的冥想，这太好了。我打算像之前做三小时播客那样引导三小时冥想。我们研究了这项练习前后的认知效果，持续了八周，每天实际上进行的是12分钟的冥想，12分钟的身体扫描冥想。我们发现压力反应显著降低，所以我们进行了压力测试，看大家如何应对突如其来的压力情境。结果表明，冥想者表现得更好，他们的情绪和认知表现也都显著提高。
And this was my first little foray into meditation. After, I had started my personal team meditation. That really shifted my relationship with meditation. But it's consistent with many other studies showing the beneficial effects of meditation. But the unique thing was we tried to make it doable. That many, many people out there could actually follow this typical regimen. And so, we're continuing that. In fact, my research and my lab right now is all about those doable, short things that NYU college students will do. Not just at the beginning of the semester, but at the end of the semester, when the stress and anxiety levels are now at record breaking high levels.
这段文字可以译为：
“这可以算是我第一次尝试进行冥想。在此之后，我开始了自己的团队冥想活动。这真的改变了我与冥想的关系。这与许多其他研究显示冥想的有益效果是一致的。但特别之处在于，我们尝试使其易于操作，让许多人都能跟随这种常规。所以我们还在继续这个项目。实际上，我目前的研究和我的实验室都专注于那些可行的、简短的活动，纽约大学的学生能够做到的。不仅仅是在学期初，而且在学期末，当压力和焦虑水平达到了创纪录的高峰时，他们也能够做到。”
And they need something to bring that level down so that they could show their professors what their brains can actually do. And so, it includes very short meditations, sound, sound meditations, visual meditations, walking, things that any college student, but we're obviously focused on NYU students, we'll do to, and I want to get at graduation rates. I want to get at class performance with these kinds of interventions. But it started with that study that I just described in meditation. If you would, and here's where we can highlight this again as some highly educated speculation that's coming from you, what do you think is going on during meditation?
他们需要一些方法来降低压力水平，以便向教授展示他们的大脑真正的能力。因此，这包括非常简短的冥想、声音冥想、视觉冥想、步行等。任何大学生都可以尝试这些方法，但我们特别关注的是纽约大学的学生。我想通过这些干预措施影响毕业率和课堂表现。而这一切都始于我刚刚描述的关于冥想的研究。如果可以的话，这里我们可以再次强调一下，作为一种经过高度教育的推测，你认为在冥想过程中发生了什么？
I mean, so a body skin involves an interreceptive awareness, like, you know, interreception, of course, being in an attention to what's going on on the surface of and within the confines of our skin as opposed to the outside world. Drawing our attention to anything inside us or outside us involves four brain function, prefrontal cortex, presumably, and other things. Typically eyes are closed. Typically, it's relaxing. So, there are a lot of variables that could be feeding into a number of different effects. But as a neuroscientist, what do you think is going on that just that this period of kind of an self-induced somewhat unusual state?
我指的是，身体的皮肤感受涉及一种内在感知意识，你知道的，内在感知就是关注我们皮肤表面和皮肤内部的状况，而不是外界环境。这种关注内在或外在的过程涉及大脑功能，比如前额叶皮层，以及其他部分。通常情况下，眼睛是闭着的，而且这种状态是放松的。因此，有许多变量可能导致各种不同的效果。作为一名神经科学家，你认为在这段自我诱导的、有点不寻常的状态中到底发生了什么？
What do you think is going on in terms of network behavior and networks within the brain that it can have these long-term effects? Because we got to some of the ones relate downstream of exercise. And I think there's so much evidence. I know there's so much evidence that meditation is beneficial. Yes. How do you think it's working or what do you think it's doing?
你认为在网络行为和大脑内部的网络方面，是什么导致了这些长期影响呢？因为我们讨论了一些与运动后续影响相关的例子。而且我认为有大量证据表明冥想是有益的。你觉得这是如何起作用的？或者说，你认为冥想对大脑产生了什么影响？
Yeah. I think that one of the most important things that gets worked when we are doing a simple 10 minute or 12 minute body scan meditation regularly, this 10 minutes a day, 12 minutes a day, is the habit building and the practice of focusing on the present moment? I think that is very hard for us modern humans to do because I'm worrying about the thing that's due at the end of the week that I need to do and how many hours am I going to have to be able to do that? Or I'm worried about whatever the email that wasn't as polite as it should be that I sent and what were the repercussions for that?
是啊，我认为其中一个最重要的事情是，进行一个简单的10分钟或12分钟的身体扫描冥想时，我们会培养习惯和专注于当下的练习。每天花10或12分钟进行这样的练习，是非常重要的。我觉得这对我们现代人来说非常困难，因为我们总是担心那些这周末要完成的事情，以及我需要多少小时才能做好这些事。或者，我在担心自己发了一封不够礼貌的电子邮件，会有什么后果。
Instead of focusing on this moment, which is fun. I get to talk to you. It's a beautiful day outside. I'm feeling good right at this moment. And I think that those all of the meditative practices that I've done and this one also, whether you know it or not, is getting you to focus on this moment. And I think it's even more important in this day and age where anxiety levels and the next variant might come out and what are the repercussions there? And I have a mother who's older and she's more susceptible to it and there's a war and what's going to happen there.
与其专注于眼下这一刻，我更享受与您交谈的乐趣。外面的天气很好，让我此刻感觉很愉快。我觉得，所有的冥想练习，包括我们现在的对话，无论你是否意识到，都是在引导你专注于此时此刻。我认为，在当今这个充满焦虑、可能出现新变种的时代，这一点尤为重要。我有一位年长的母亲，她更容易受到影响，还有战争在进行，我们不知道未来会怎样。
Those are all future possibilities. We should be worried about that. That is a possibility you need to plan for that. But you also need to focus on this moment right now. I'm healthy. I could breathe. I get to have this interesting conversation right in this moment. If I start thinking about other things, then it takes away from this moment. Do I know what circuits are being are involved? Not exactly. That is not my area. I think there are some studies that have focused on that present moment kind of activity.
这些都是未来的可能性。我们应该对这些感到担忧。这是一个需要计划的可能性。但你也需要关注当下此刻。我很健康。我能呼吸。我可以在此刻进行这场有趣的对话。如果我开始考虑其他事情，那就会从这个当下分心。我是否确切知道哪些脑回路涉及其中？不完全清楚。那不是我的专业领域。我认为有一些研究专注于这种活在当下的活动。
But that is what I think is most important about the practice of meditation or one of the important things that calms us down. Because if you know how to do that, that gives you this powerful tool for the rest of your day. You're not locked into that fearful future thinking that so many of us have or that just reliving of a terrible past. But you could enjoy the present moment.
但我认为，冥想练习中最重要的或其中一个让我们平静下来的重要因素就是这个。因为如果你知道怎么去做，那就等于给了你一个在接下来的一整天中都能用的强大工具。你不会被困在对未来的恐惧中，也不会一直重温过去的不快。相反，你能够享受当下的时刻。
Yeah, that really resonates. I think that going back to the earlier part of our conversation, the hippocampus has this incredible storage capacity and ability to set context about past, present, and future. That's a beautiful thing. Because as much as I like to think he had some semblance of a healthy life, none of us want to be HM. None of us want to be in the position of not being able to form new memories and have no context to the past or the present.
是的，我真的感同身受。我认为回到我们之前谈话的内容，海马体有着令人难以置信的存储能力，能够为过去、现在和未来设定背景。这是一件很美好的事情。因为即使我们希望自己拥有某种健康的生活，没有人愿意像HM那样。没有人希望自己无法形成新的记忆，对过去或现在没有任何背景可言。
We're grateful that we should all be grateful that our hippocampus can draw from past, present, and future in various combinations. And we should support it through the daily exercise and other habits. Let's call them habits so that people make them habits that you've highlighted. But if we are not deliberately anchoring within past, present, and future according to what we need and we're just shuffling between past, present, and future, that is not a good way to live.
我们很感激，也应该感激我们的海马体能够以各种组合方式从过去、现在和未来中汲取信息。我们应该通过日常锻炼和其他习惯来支持它。我们称之为习惯，这样人们就会把它们当作习惯去坚持。但如果我们没有根据需求在过去、现在和未来之间有意识地定位，只是在这三者之间随意切换，这不是一种好的生活方式。
No, it's not effective. No, it sounds like meditation can really help us go to the right stacks. I guess people don't go to libraries anymore. But in the old days, you would go to the right location library. You actually can't get distracted by the books that you're interested in if you need to go just reflexively, you need to go study a particular topic. So that's kind of how I think about it. It makes us more linear, perhaps, in our way of being. I think so. And it actually counteracts, you know, not that I'm against technology, but having our phones and being connected to every good and bad thing going along, going on in the world today is incredibly distracting and takes you away from the present moment virtually 24 hours a day.
不，这没有效果。听起来冥想确实能帮助我们找到正确的方向。我想现在人们不再去图书馆了。但在过去，你会去正确的位置找到需要的书。在那种情况下，如果你需要专注地研究某一特定主题，就不会被其他你感兴趣的书分心。我就是这样看的。这让我们的思维方式更线性。我觉得是这样的。实际上，这也能抵消一些影响。虽然我并不反对科技，但我们的手机和随时连线了解世界上各类消息的能力实在是非常分心，几乎24小时不间断地把我们从当下的时刻中抽离。
And so we have to work extra hard right now compared to in the 40s when we didn't have all this technology or at the same level. So yeah, it becomes even more important practice, I think, for every day of life. Or even 10, 15 years ago, I felt like smartphones weren't as intrusive. One final question and maybe a request as the new incoming dean of College of Letters and Sciences. And I must say I'm delighted, thrilled actually to hear that a lot of the practices that we've been discussing today and that you've pioneered are going to be incorporated into undergraduate education.
因此，我们现在必须比40年代时更加努力，因为那时候我们没有如今这些技术，或者说技术水平没有现在这么高。所以，我认为在日常生活中实践变得更加重要。即使是10到15年前，我也觉得智能手机没有现在这么具有干扰性。作为文理学院新任院长，我想问一个最后的问题，也算是一个请求。得知我们今天讨论的许多做法，以及您所开创的理念，将被纳入本科教育，我感到非常高兴和激动。
I predict and I'd be willing to wager that that will become a template for how universities and non-university systems should function because if indeed the end it is true that there's this incredible relationship between physical movement and mental deliberate practices and performance. Any corporation, school, household would be crazy, would be self limiting and even self-destructive to not incorporate those. I'm so happy that you're going to do this and collect data. Please, we'll have to touch back with you and hear what comes to that.
我预测并愿意打赌，这将成为大学和非大学体系运作的模板。因为如果最终证明身体运动与刻意的心理训练和表现之间有着惊人的关系，那么任何公司、学校、家庭如果不纳入这些元素，都是疯狂的、自我限制的，甚至是自我毁灭的。我很高兴你们要开始做这个并收集数据。到时候，我们一定会再联系，了解你们的成果。
But one of the main things that I hear so much about today are issues with attention. And we haven't talked about attention. We mainly been talking about memory and cognition, but you know a lot about attention. And here I'm not being disparaging. I think people have done what I'm about to say as a consequence of need and lack of other resources, there's an immense amount of Adderall use, Ritalin use, Medaphine use, and caffeine abuse. Now I happen to like caffeine. I don't use the other compounds I described. But it's just incredible to me how the data on this are. A colleague of mine at Stanford claims that you know something like two thirds or more of college students use these without prescription for ADHD.
但我听到很多关于注意力问题的讨论，而我们还没有谈过注意力。我们主要谈论的是记忆和认知，但你对注意力了解很多。我不是在批评，我认为人们之所以使用我接下来要提到的东西，是因为需求和缺乏其他资源的结果。有大量的人在使用阿德拉尔（Adderall）、利他林（Ritalin）、莫达非尼（Medaphine）和滥用咖啡因。我个人喜欢咖啡因，但我不使用其他提到的药物。让我感到难以置信的是，这方面的数据表明，我在斯坦福大学的一位同事称，大约三分之二或更多的大学生没有ADHD处方就使用这些药物。
What can we expect in terms of the effects of regular exercise on attention? And are there any other things besides exercise and meditation that you would like to see people do in terms of trying to increase their powers of attention? Because I think the ability to focus and attend is really the distinguishing feature between those that will succeed in any endeavor and those that won't. And that's a scary thing for a lot of people to hear because a lot of people think they have ADHD, they may not. But I bet that a number of students at both Stanford and NYU feel challenged with holding their attention to the thing that they need to hold their attention to.
定期锻炼对注意力有什么影响？除了锻炼和冥想，还有什么您想推荐给大家，以提高注意力的办法吗？我认为，集中和专注的能力，是区分在任何领域能否取得成功的关键。这对很多人来说可能很吓人，因为很多人认为自己有注意力缺陷多动症（ADHD），可能并非如此。但我相信，很多在斯坦福和纽约大学的学生都觉得在集中注意力方面遇到挑战。
Yeah. Yeah. So I would say the top three tools that everybody read this minute today can use to up their capacity to attend where they want to include exercise. For the reasons we've talked about, it has a direct effect on functioning of the prefrontal cortex meditation. Also, clear clinical studies showing improved ability to focus and particularly focus on the present moment. And the third has to be sleep. So sleep is you can't, it's out of the three, it is the most physiological. I mean, I could live my whole life without meditating one minute. Could I survive without sleep? No, none of us could. So it's more basic physiological. But it is so important for all core cognitive functions, including attention, including creativity, including just, you know, just good, good, basic brain function.
好的。那么，我会说，大家现在可以使用的提升专注力的三大工具包括锻炼。我们之前提到过，锻炼对前额皮质的功能有直接影响。其次是冥想，明确的临床研究表明它能改善专注力，特别是专注于当下的能力。第三个必须是睡眠。在这三者中，睡眠是最基础的生理需求。我可以一辈子不冥想，但我能不睡觉活下去吗？不，我们谁都不能。所以，它在生理上更为基础。但睡眠对于所有核心认知功能都非常重要，包括注意力、创造力以及良好的、基本的大脑功能。
That is why it's, you know, it's so critical to get that information, that basic neuroscience information into the heads of these students that are trying their best to show us how their brain work, but being hampered because they're not moving enough, they're not meditating. And there's all these distracting things that they include in their lives. Some of which a little bit is good, but, you know, 24 hours a day on your phone and linked in, not linked in, but linked to your phone is damaging to your attention. So exercise, meditation, sleep can help you learn, retain, and perform better than if you do not have these three things in your life.
这就是为什么，将那些基础的神经科学信息传递给这些学生是如此重要。你知道，他们正在尽最大努力向我们展示他们的大脑工作原理，但受到阻碍，因为他们活动不足，并且没有进行冥想。而且生活中还有许多让他们分心的事情。有些事情少量参与是有益的，但你知道，全天24小时都粘在手机上，会损害注意力。因此，锻炼、冥想和充足的睡眠可以帮助你更好地学习、记忆和表现，而如果缺乏这三方面，你可能会表现得不如意。
Wonderful. Music to my ears. And also, either very low cost or zero cost, considering that the exercise doesn't require a class. One could do use the freely available resource of gravity to do jumping jacks or burpees or pushups or whatever or sit-ups or all those. And don't forget YouTube, the freely accessible millions of YouTube videos, if you don't want to do your jumping jacks by yourself, I always say this, you know, I talk about breath meditation in, for my book Good Anxiety. And, you know, if you don't like the one that I suggest, there's only about a million more on YouTube with ratings from one star to five stars. So use that resource. It is a wonderful resource.
太好了。这对我来说如音乐般美妙。而且几乎没有花费，甚至是零成本，因为做这个运动不需要上课。你可以利用自由提供的重力资源来做开合跳、波比跳、俯卧撑或者仰卧起坐等等。还有，别忘了YouTube，上面有数以百万计的视频供你免费访问。如果你不想一个人做开合跳，我总是说，我在我的书《良好的焦虑》中谈到过呼吸冥想，如果你不喜欢我建议的那个，YouTube上还有大约一百万个，评分从一星到五星不等。所以好好利用这个资源，这是一个很棒的资源。
And you're an amazing resource. Wendy, thank you so much for coming here today to have this discussion and share your knowledge about not just existing data, but new data coming out soon. And for your leadership in the university system, for your leadership in public education, for the decades of important work on memory and neural circuitry, which we got to learn about today as well. Thank you ever so much. Thank you, Andrew. Fun conversation. Thank you for joining me today for my discussion about learning and memory and how to get better at learning and remembering with Dr. Wendy Suzuki.
你是一个非常出色的资源。温迪，非常感谢你今天来到这里进行这次讨论，并分享你关于现有数据和即将发布的新数据的知识。感谢你在大学系统中的领导作用，感谢你在公共教育方面的贡献，感谢你在记忆和神经回路领域几十年的重要工作，我们今天也有幸学习到了这些。非常感谢你。谢谢你，安德鲁。这是一次有趣的对话。感谢你今天和我一起与温迪·铃木博士探讨学习与记忆，以及如何提高学习和记忆的能力。
If you'd like to learn more about Dr. Suzuki's work, you can go to WendySazuki.com. There you will also find titles and links to her popular books, as well as her social media handles. We've also placed those in the show note captions. If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast, please subscribe to us on YouTube. That's a terrific zero-cost way to support us. In addition, please subscribe to the podcast on Spotify and or Apple. And on both Spotify and Apple, you can leave us up to a five-star review.
如果你想了解更多关于铃木博士的工作，你可以访问WendySuzuki.com。在那里，你还可以找到她的畅销书的书名和链接，以及她的社交媒体账号。我们也在节目说明中提供了这些信息。如果你从这个播客中有所收获或者喜欢它，请在YouTube上关注我们。这是一种零成本支持我们的极好方式。此外，请在Spotify和/或Apple上订阅我们的播客。在Spotify和Apple上，你还可以给我们留下最多五星的评价。
If you have suggestions about guests or topics that you'd like us to cover on the Hubert and Lab podcast, or you'd like to give us feedback of any kind, please leave that in the comments section on YouTube. That's the best place to give us feedback. Please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning of today's episode. That's the best way to support this podcast. We also have a Patreon. It's patreon.com slash Andrew Hubertman. And there you can support the podcast at any level that you like.
如果您对我们在Hubert and Lab播客中希望邀请的嘉宾或话题有任何建议，或者有任何反馈想与我们分享，请在YouTube的评论区留言。那是给我们反馈的最佳途径。也请查看今天节目开始时提到的赞助商，这是支持我们播客的最佳方式。我们还有一个Patreon页面，网址是patreon.com/AndrewHubertman。在那里，您可以根据自己的意愿以任何金额支持我们的播客。
On many episodes of the Hubertman Lab podcast, we discuss supplements. While supplements are certainly not necessary for everybody, many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like accelerating the transition into sleep and getting better, deeper sleep, as well as enhancing focus and learning and other aspects of human performance and health. We're excited to announce that we've partnered with momentous supplements. The reason we partnered with momentous is several fold.
在很多集的 Hubertman Lab 播客中，我们会讨论补充剂。虽然补充剂对于每个人来说并不是必需的，但很多人通过它们在加快入睡、提高睡眠质量，以及增强专注力和学习能力等方面获得了极大的好处，还有助于提升其他方面的人类表现和健康。我们很高兴地宣布，我们已与 Momentous 补充剂公司达成了合作。我们选择与 Momentous 合作有多个原因。
First of all, we wanted to have one location where Hubertman Lab podcast listeners could go in order to find all the supplements that we talk about and to find those in a form where they could systematically try one or the other. This is a real issue in the supplement industry. A lot of supplement brands out there combine different ingredients in ways that don't really allow you to pinpoint exactly what you need and what you don't need.
首先，我们希望创建一个地方，让Hubertman Lab播客的听众可以在此找到我们讨论过的所有补充剂，并且可以以系统的方式逐一尝试。这在补充剂行业中是一个实际问题。许多补充剂品牌会将不同的成分混合在一起，这样你很难确切知道你需要什么和不需要什么。
So getting supplements that have low doses or just the minimal effective dose of particular ingredients and being able to mix and match those ingredients yourself and really establish what's best for you is really key. In addition, we came to realize that a lot of our listeners want supplements but they reside outside of the United States. So we're pleased to tell you that momentous ships both within the US and internationally.
所以，选择含有低剂量或仅有最低有效剂量的补充剂，并能够自己混合搭配这些成分，以找到最适合自己的方法，这一点非常重要。此外，我们意识到很多听众想要购买补充剂，但他们居住在美国境外。因此，我们很高兴地告诉您，Momentous 不仅在美国境内发货，也支持国际运输。
And of course, momentous supplements are of the very highest quality ingredients and the precision of the amounts of those ingredients is tightly regulated. If you're interested in momentous supplements, the catalog of supplements related to the Hubertman Lab podcast are growing all the time. A good number of them are already there. You can go to livemomentus.com slash Hubertman in order to find them and there will be additional supplements added to that site as we go forward.
当然，Momentous 补充剂使用最高质量的成分，并且其成分的用量非常严格地受到监管。如果你对 Momentous 补充剂感兴趣，Huberman Lab 播客相关的补充剂目录正在不断增加，已经有不少产品上线。你可以访问 livemomentus.com/hubertman 来查看这些补充剂，今后还会有更多的补充剂陆续添加到该网站上。
If you're not already following Hubertman Lab on Twitter and Instagram, I post neuroscience and other science related information and tools on a regular basis. Some of that information overlaps with the content of the Hubertman Lab podcast, but a lot of it is distinct from the information contained on the Hubertman Lab podcast. So again, that's Hubertman Lab on Instagram and Hubertman Lab on Twitter.
如果你还没有在 Twitter 和 Instagram 上关注 Hubertman Lab，我会定期发布有关神经科学和其他科学相关的信息和工具。其中一些信息与 Hubertman Lab 播客的内容重合，但很多是独立于播客的内容。再次提醒，你可以在 Instagram 和 Twitter 上找到 Hubertman Lab。
We also have a neural network newsletter. What that is is a monthly newsletter in which I distill critical points from different podcast episodes, provide links to useful resources. If you want to sign up for that newsletter, I should mention it is zero cost and we do not share your email with anybody and we have a very clear privacy policy posted at HubertmanLab.com.
我们还有一个关于神经网络的时事通讯。这个时事通讯是每月一次，我会在其中提炼不同播客节目中的关键点，并提供一些有用资源的链接。如果你想订阅这个通讯，我要提到的是，它是免费的，而且我们不会与任何人分享你的电子邮件地址。我们在HubertmanLab.com上发布了非常明确的隐私政策。
Just go to HubertmanLab.com, click on the menu. You'll see the neural network newsletter. You can also look at examples of newsletters without having to sign up to make sure that you actually do want to sign up. But if you are interested, the sign up is there. Very easy and you can receive our monthly newsletter.
只需访问 HubertmanLab.com，点击菜单。你会看到神经网络通讯。你也可以在不注册的情况下查看一些通讯的例子，以确保你真的想注册。如果有兴趣，你可以很方便地注册并接收我们的月刊通讯。
So once again, thank you for joining me today for our voyage into the neuroscience of learning and memory and tools to get better at learning and memory. And as always, thank you for your interest in science.
再次感谢您今天加入我们，一同探索关于学习与记忆的神经科学，以及一些提升学习与记忆能力的工具。同时，一如既往地感谢您对科学的关注。