Russia accuses Ukraine of attempting to kill Putin
发布时间 2023-05-03 15:08:00 来源
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In 2012, a new charity bursts onto the scene. It's called Believe in Magic and it grants wishes to seriously ill children. It has the support of the biggest boy band in the world, One Direction. It's run by an inspirational 16 year old girl called Megan Barry, who herself is battling a brain tumour. They've been in and out of hospital and seen so many other very poor children. But when questions arise about her story, they reveal she could be facing another very different danger. What is this girl going through? It wasn't supposed to end like this. Listen to Believe in Magic with me, Jamie Bartlett.
在2012年，一个新的慈善组织出现了，名为“相信魔法”，它向生命垂危的儿童实现心愿。它得到了全球最大的男孩乐队One Direction的支持。这个组织是由一个鼓舞人心的16岁女孩Megan Barry领导，她本身也在与脑瘤斗争。他们一直在医院里穿梭，见过很多其他非常贫困的孩子。但当问题出现在她的故事上时，他们透露她可能面临着另一种非常不同的危险。这个女孩究竟经历了什么？这不应该以这种方式结束。请和我，Jamie Bartlett一起聆听“相信魔法”。
The Global Jigsaw is the new podcast from BBC Monitoring. The BBC team tracking and analysing media in 100 languages. We're lifting the language barrier, showing you the world through the eyes of its media, where conflicting narratives are competing to influence your views. Search for the Global Jigsaw, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
"The Global Jigsaw"是英国广播公司（BBC）监测和分析100种语言媒体的团队新推出的播客节目。我们打破语言障碍，通过媒体的视角向你展示世界，让你了解各种相互竞争的叙述，这些叙述会影响你的观点。在任何你能取得BBC播客的平台上搜索 "The Global Jigsaw"。
Hello, welcome to NewsHour. It's live from the BBC World Service Studios in London, I'm Tim Frakes. Later in the programme we'll hear from the man who's helping to lead the efforts to broker a peace deal, not just a ceasefire, between the warring generals in Sudan. South Sudan might seem like an unlikely peace broker, given its recent history of bloody past struggles. So what can it hope to achieve? I'll be asking the country's foreign minister in just over 30 minutes.
大家好，欢迎收听“新闻时刻”。我们现在正在伦敦的BBC世界服务工作室现场直播，我是蒂姆·弗雷克斯。稍后在节目中，我们将听到一个人的身后，他正在帮助领导斡旋和平协议——而不仅仅是停火协议，解决苏丹军队之间的战争。南苏丹可能看起来像是一个不可能的和平谈判人，考虑到它最近血腥斗争的历史。那么它有什么希望实现呢？30分钟后我将询问该国外交部长。
We're going to begin though with the extraordinary news that broke shortly before we came on air. It's come out of Moscow where officials say that there has been an attempt to assassinate President Putin. The finger is being pointed at Ukraine and two alleged drone attacks, overnight on the Kremlin, the seat of power in the capital, a little while ago.
我们要从一条离我们开播不久的惊人消息开始。这是来自莫斯科的消息，官方表示有人试图暗杀普京总统。指控是针对乌克兰，据称在克里姆林宫的首都权力中心发生了两次无人机袭击，这发生在不久之前。
I got the latest from the BBC's Russia editor Steve Rosenberg, who's in Moscow. Well, I should stress, Tim, that all we have to go on right now is a statement that was issued a short while ago by the Kremlin press service and a couple of videos which have appeared online. According to the Kremlin statement, there was an attempted Ukrainian drone attack on the residents of the President in the Kremlin overnight. The statement from the Kremlin says that there were two drones, but that the Russian military and Russian special services used radar systems to put the drones out of action. And so there were no victims, no damage according as a result of the drones crashing.
我刚刚从驻莫斯科的BBC俄罗斯编辑史蒂夫·罗森伯格那里得到了最新消息。此刻我们需要强调的是，我们现在所知道的一切只有克里姆林宫新闻处发布的一份声明和在网上出现的一些视频。根据克里姆林宫的声明，昨晚有一次试图袭击位于克里姆林宫内的总统住所的乌克兰无人机袭击事件。克里姆林宫声明称，有两架无人机，但是俄罗斯军队和俄罗斯特种部队使用了雷达系统使无人机失灵。因此，由于无人机坠毁，没有造成任何受害者或损坏。
On a couple of the videos which have appeared, you can see some kind of explosion. Now the statement ends by saying that the Kremlin views these actions as a planned terrorist attack and an assassination attempt on the life of President Putin and that Russia reserves the right to respond whenever and wherever it considers necessary.
在一些出现的视频中，你可以看到某种爆炸。现在这个声明最后指出，克里姆林宫认为这些行为是一次有计划的恐怖袭击和暗杀总统普京的企图，并且俄罗斯保留在任何必要时回应的权利。
Now I have to say this is all very surprising for a number of reasons. I mean, the Kremlin is heavily guarded. Nothing like this has happened before, not that I can remember. And also surprising because earlier today when President Putin's spokesman, Dmitri Peskov, gave his daily conference call, held his daily conference call with journalists, he made no mention of this. It was only after the conference call that they put out this statement. So it is rather strange and it comes just a few days before the big military parade, the victory day parade on Red Square to mark the Soviet defeat of Nazi Germany.
现在我必须说，这件事情有很多令人惊讶的地方。我是指，克里姆林宫受到了极其严密的守卫，仿佛从来没有发生过这样的事情，至少我记不清了。今天早些时候，当普京总统的发言人德米特里·佩斯科夫与记者进行了每日通报时，他没有提到这件事情。只是在通报之后，他们才发布了这份声明。所以这件事情相当奇怪，而且就在几天后，即即将在红场上举行的庆祝苏联打败纳粹德国的大型军事阅兵式之前。
Right. And I want to ask you a bit more about victory parade. I know that they said that they're not going to cancel the one in Moscow. But have they given any details as to where these alleged drones came from? Are they saying that they were sort of piloted all the way over from the border or are they saying that they were sort of launched by Ajahn provocateur in Moscow? I mean, have they given any details on the attack?
好的，我想再问你一些关于胜利日阅兵的问题。我知道他们说莫斯科的阅兵不会取消，但他们给出了无人机的来源吗？他们是否说这些无人机是从边境一直被驾驶过来的，还是说它们是被莫斯科的激进主义者发射的？他们有没有给出关于这次袭击的具体细节？
No. No more details. They're just talking about unmanned aerial vehicles, in other words, drones. So where they came from, who launched them? We simply don't know. From what I hear, Ukraine has denied any link to this alleged attack. But we have very few details at the moment to go.
不，没有更多的细节了。他们只是在谈论无人机，换句话说，即无人机。那么它们来自哪里？谁启动了它们？我们根本不知道。据我所知，乌克兰否认与这次所谓的攻击有任何关联。但我们目前没有太多的细节可以参考。
Okay. And just in terms of those victory day parades, Moscow is going ahead. But have there been any effects of these Ukrainian drone attacks that have occurred over the border allegedly? Have they had any impact on victory day parades elsewhere in the country?
好的。就那个胜利日阅兵来说，莫斯科正在继续进行。但是据称穿过边界发生的乌克兰无人机袭击是否产生了任何影响？它们是否对全国其他地方的胜利日阅兵产生了任何影响？
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, over the last few weeks, I suppose, a number of Russian regions, particularly those bordering Ukraine, but not only have decided not to hold their annual victory day parades, citing security concerns. Now, the Kremlin has been saying all along that the biggest parade of all, the Moscow one across Red Square, will go on as planned. And they've repeated that today after the announcement about. this alleged attack. But there are still a few days to go before that. And certainly, this adds to that the sense of nervousness here at the moment. Steve Rosenberg, our Russia editor, speaking to me from Moscow and a little bit later in the program, will have one of our experts from BBC monitoring to give us their insight into what we can glean from these videos that have been appearing on social media.
是啊，完全是。我的意思是，在过去几周里，许多俄罗斯地区，特别是与乌克兰接壤的地区，决定取消他们的年度胜利日阅兵式，理由是安全问题。现在，克里姆林宫一直在说，最大的阅兵式，即红场上的莫斯科阅兵式，将按计划进行。在这个所谓的袭击事件公布后，他们今天再次重申了这一点。但还有几天的时间。目前这增加了人们的紧张感。我们的俄罗斯编辑史蒂夫·罗森伯格从莫斯科跟我交流，稍后我们将请来BBC监视专家中的一位为我们详细解读这些在社交媒体上出现的视频。
It was two years ago, May 2021, that a passenger flight from Greece to Lithuania was suddenly diverted to Belarus. On board was a Belarusian dissident journalist called Roman Protaceovitch. He was arrested, as soon as the plane landed in Minsk Airport. Today, Protaceovitch was found guilty of organizing mass riots, leading an extremist group, and conspiracy to seize power. And he's been sentenced to eight years in jail. Framack Vietroka is an advisor to the Belarusian opposition leaders, Fiatlana Chikanovskaia. A guilty verdict can't have been a huge surprise to them. So what does he make of today's news?
两年前的2021年5月，一架从希腊飞往立陶宛的客机突然被迫降落在白俄罗斯。机上有一名名叫罗曼·普罗塔斯耶维奇的白俄罗斯异议记者。飞机降落在明斯克机场后，他立即被逮捕。今天，普罗塔斯耶维奇被判有组织大规模骚乱、领导极端组织和谋划夺取政权罪名成立。他被判处八年监禁。弗拉马克·维特罗卡是白俄罗斯反对派领袖菲阿特拉娜·奇卡诺夫斯卡娅的顾问。对于今天的消息，有罪判决对他们来说并不是一个惊喜。那么，他对于今天的新闻有什么看法呢？
I think this is the sentence, not just to Roman Protaceovitch, but to all Belarusian journalists, to Belarusian journalism, overall, on the press, freedom day, three reporters, three journalists were sentenced by the regime. So this is the message of Lukashenko to the entire world that he doesn't care about media, he doesn't care about international rules, norms, laws, that he will be punished in all the dissent he has in Belarus. Personally, I fell sorry for a man because he got into this turmoil by accident. He didn't want to be on trial today. He didn't want to be in prison today. He's taken hostage by the regime. He was hoping that he will be able to avoid the imprisonment. He collaborated with the regime with KGB. He provided them with all the information, but you see, he didn't help him to avoid imprisonment.
我认为这句话不仅针对罗曼·普罗塔舍维奇，而是针对所有白俄罗斯记者、针对整个白俄罗斯新闻业、针对新闻自由日，整个国家都感到震惊和痛苦。有三名记者、三名新闻工作者被政权判刑。因此，这是卢卡申科向整个世界发出的信息，他并不在乎媒体，他也不在乎国际规则、准则和法律，他会惩罚所有在白俄罗斯持异议的人。个人而言，我为这个人感到难过，他只是无意间卷入了这场风波。他今天并不想接受审判，也不想被关进监狱。他被政权作为人质。他曾希望能够避免被监禁。他与克格勃合作，提供了所有信息，但是你看，这并没有帮他避免被监禁。
It had come out before that as a result of Roman Protaceovitch's treatment in detention and this information that appeared to be extracted from him that hundreds of opposition activists were arrested, can you just give me a little bit more detail about what you understand happened and his connection to all that? I was seen in Roman Protaceovitch every single day. We worked together on organizing the protests in Belarus and he was basically involved in all stages of democratic movement and revolution of 2020. When he was kidnapped from this Ryanair flight, he was bringing all the documents, papers, names of the people who were helping Belarus democratic movement. When KGB started to interrogate him, we don't know what they were doing with him, probably tortured. He shared basically all the information and because of him, hundreds of people landed in jail, hundreds of people were sentenced to 515, some people to 20 years of prison. So the consequences of this arrest, of this drama with Roman Protaceovitch are much bigger than anyone could expect. You know him. How do you think he's likely to be holding up? I mean, it's a heavy sentence that he is now facing and he's had already two years in detention. How do you think he is likely to be fairing?
在此之前，罗曼·普罗塔谢维奇在拘留中的待遇以及从他身上获取的信息显示，数百名反对派活动人士被逮捕。您能否给我更详细的了解他的经历以及他与这一切的联系？我每天都看到罗曼·普罗塔谢维奇，我们一起组织白俄罗斯的抗议活动，并且他在2020年的民主运动和革命的所有阶段都参与其中。当他在这架瑞安航空公司的航班上被绑架时，他带着所有文件、文件、协助白俄罗斯民主运动的人们的名字。当KGB开始审问他时，我们不知道他们在对他做什么，可能是施加酷刑。他基本上分享了所有信息，因此，由于他，数百人被投入监狱，数百人被判515年，有些人被判20年监禁。因此，这次逮捕，罗曼·普罗塔谢维奇的事件，造成的后果比任何人都能想象的要大得多。您认识他。您认为他可能会如何应对？我的意思是，他现在面临的判决非常沉重，而他已经被拘留了两年。您认为他可能会怎样度过难关？
Today I show him on a video after the sentence was announced and I think he was surprised. He was shocked. He was hoping till the very last moment that he will get this sentence conditionally or he will be pardoned or whatever. Because he understand that Lukashenko's prison is the worst place in Europe right now. Many people who are in jails right now are being tortured, beaten, humiliated even after being released. For many, many years they're not able to rehabilitate fully. This was not a trial. This was the circus. This was the show. Belarus just turned back into the Stalin era terror machine. Do people have access to, I mean I've realized it won't be ready access, but can they access anything approaching free information inside Belarus? Many media were closed. Many media were announced extremists. So even being subscribed to YouTube channel or TikTok account of independent media can land you in jail for five or seven years. They do what they can in such horrible circumstances.
今天我向他展示了这个视频，当判决宣布时他非常惊讶和震惊。他一直希望能够得到有条件或豁免判决，因为他明白目前卢卡申科监狱是欧洲最糟糕的地方之一。目前在监狱中的许多人都受到酷刑、殴打和羞辱，即使在获释后也很难彻底康复。这不是一场审判，而是一场娱乐表演，白俄罗斯正逐渐变成斯大林时代的恐怖机器。在白俄罗斯，人们可以获得类似自由信息的东西吗？许多媒体被关闭，许多被宣布为极端主义者。即使订阅独立媒体的YouTube频道或TikTok账户，也可能被判入狱五到七年。在如此恶劣的情况下，他们尽力而为。
Frank, via Chalka on the imprisonment day of the Belarusian blogger Roman Protacea Vyacheslav you may recall the mysterious news last September explosions damaging the Nord Stream pipelines in the Baltic Sea, the pipelines which carry gas from Russia into Germany. I say mysterious because all sorts of theories have been posited in the months since about who might have been responsible and why. The latest one to come around comes from a consortium of Nordic broadcasters. who carried out a joint investigation. They have found out that Russian Navy ships were present in the area shortly before the blasts. One of the moody is Berlin correspondent for the Times.
去年白俄罗斯博主罗曼·普罗塔谢维奇·维亚切斯拉夫被监禁的那一天，弗兰克通过Chalka向大家提醒，可能还记得去年九月波罗的海发生爆炸，破坏了从俄罗斯输送天然气至德国的北欧天然气管道。我称之为神秘事件，因为自那时以来，关于谁可能负责以及原因的各种理论已经被提出。最新的理论来自一些北欧的广播机构，他们进行了联合调查。他们发现，在爆炸发生前不久，俄罗斯海军舰艇曾在该地区出现。其中一个参与研究的人是泰晤士报的柏林记者。
What does he make of the latest theory? For a number of weeks now really since the middle of March, there has been growing evidence of Russian Navy vessels having visited the area where the bombs went off in the days beforehand. And what this latest part of the investigation does is really kind of builds up the picture in particular with evidence of some previous Russian naval maneuvers in that area in June last year.
他对最新的理论有什么看法？自3月中旬以来的几个星期里，已经有越来越多的证据表明俄罗斯海军舰艇在炸弹爆炸地区发生前几天曾到访过这里。而这项最新的调查结果是在特别提供一些俄罗斯海军去年6月在这个地区进行军事演习的证据，进一步完善了这个谜团。
Clearly there have been a number of theories as to who's been behind the pipeline blast. Where does this fit into that? For logically speaking, there have been three theories that have attracted a degree of attention. The first one was from the veteran American investigative reporter Simor Hirsch who argued based originally on a single unidentified source that it had been carried out by the CIA with a lot of help from the Norwegian Navy. A lot of the details in that story have fallen apart on closer inspection.
显然，有很多关于石油管道爆炸事件背后的幕后黑手的猜测。这件事情如何解释呢？从逻辑上讲，已经存在了三个吸引人们关注的理论。第一个理论来自美国资深调查记者西莫·赫希，他最初是基于一个未知的消息人士所说，认为这是由美国中情局在挪威海军的大力协助下进行的。但是在更仔细地检查之后，该故事中的很多细节都已经不成立了。
So I don't have very much time for it. The second one is that it was commissioned by a very powerful Ukrainian businessman and former politician and that he got a small crew to hire a yacht in northern Germany, set it out to the attack site and then two divers dropped. The equivalent of half a ton of TNT on the pipelines and then blew it up that way. Again, there are a lot of questions about whether it would really have been possible to carry out an operation like that with such a small vessel and so few people. And so where we're at now is this kind of drip, drip, drip of evidence that it may very well have been the Russian Navy itself that certainly had as many as half a dozen vessels in that area five or six days before the bombs went off and we now know that it had sent vessels to the same area a few weeks before that as well.
我没有很多时间去了解这件事。第二个问题是该行动是由一个非常强大的乌克兰商人和前政治家委托完成的。他让一支小队在德国北部租了一艘游艇，前往袭击地点，然后两个潜水员投掷了相当于半吨TNT的炸药炸毁了管道。再次提出了许多问题，是否真的可能如此小的船只和如此少的人员完成这样的行动。现在我们所知道的就是有关于俄罗斯海军的一些线索，它们可能是真正的幕后黑手，因为在爆炸发生前的五六天这个地区至少有六艘俄罗斯船只，而我们现在也知道在爆炸发生前几周它们曾经派遣船只到该地区。
I guess part of the problem in all this is that it's possible to construct reasons from various different sources why somebody might want to disrupt the flow of Russian gas into Germany. Right and one of the objections that critics of the Russia theory raised is why would Russia demolish the last piece of leverage and significant energy leverage that it had over Germany. And I think the kind of the lack of an obvious rationale has very much created the space for people to come up with all kinds of alternative explanations.
我认为这其中的问题部分在于我们可以从不同来源构建各种原因来解释为什么有人想要干扰俄罗斯天然气流入德国的流程。另外一个反对“俄罗斯理论”的批评者所提出的问题是，为什么俄罗斯要毁掉它对德国最后一个有影响力的能源杠杆?我认为这种缺乏明显合理性的情况很大程度上为人们提供了各种替代解释的空间。
If it were Russia, if it could be pinned on Russia, you know what point does this become an act of war? I mean is I guess my question is do you think that there's a there's a certain amount of benefit for Western countries in not identifying a culprit? Well I think this is precisely why the three national investigations in Germany, Sweden and Denmark into the bombing have been so circumspect and so utterly watertight with what they reveal to the public because if they're going to accuse Russia of having been behind it they want to be absolutely sure of what they're doing and that they know what the consequences are. Oliver Moody from the Times newspaper.
如果这是俄罗斯做的，如果能够归罪于俄罗斯，那么这是一种战争行为吗？我的问题是，你认为西方国家不指认罪犯有一定的好处吗？嗯，我认为这正是德国、瑞典和丹麦进行全国性调查的原因。他们在公开揭露这起爆炸事件时非常慎重，以确保如果他们指责俄罗斯背后有所谓这份报告确实非常重要，因为他们必须确保自己清楚自己所做的事情及其后果。来自《泰晤士报》的奥利弗 ·穆迪（Oliver Moody） 。
And coming up on the programme as the diplomatic efforts to resolve Sudan's conflict continue. We hear how people in the capital are just trying to scrape by. You can't use the roads. There is serious exploitation currently going on. Like if I want to take my family anywhere like the city of ports of Dan for one person it might cost about a thousand dollars so my whole family of four is going to cost us four thousand dollars. More from that resident of Hartoom in just over 20 minutes.
在节目中，随着解决苏丹冲突的外交努力继续进行，我们听到了首都居民如何尽力维生。你不能使用道路。目前存在严重的剥削行为。比如，如果我想带我的家人去丹港这样的城市，一个人可能需要花费约一千美元，那么我的四口之家将花费我们四千美元。稍后我们将再次听取Hartoom居民的讲述，大约在20分钟之后。
Our headlines this year, Russia has accused Ukraine of trying to assassinate President Putin in a drone attack on the Kremlin key of his denied anything to do with the incident and we'll be having one of our in-house BBC experts to pour over the video footage of that with us in about 15 minutes. This is news air. It's live from the BBC in London with me Tim Franks.
今年的头条新闻是，俄罗斯指责乌克兰试图通过一次无人机袭击克里姆林宫来暗杀普京总统，而乌克兰方面已经否认与此事件有任何关系。接下来，我们将与BBC内部的专家一起观看这段视频镜头，大约15分钟后进行。这是来自伦敦的BBC新闻直播，我是主持人Tim Franks。
In the Serbian capital Belgrade, eight children and a security guard have been killed in a shooting at a school. Further six pupils and a teacher have also been injured. Police have arrested a 14-year-old student from the Vladislav Rhybnikov school. Speaking through an interpreter, the Serbian Education Minister Branko Ruzic praised school staff who would try to protect children.
在塞尔维亚首都贝尔格莱德的一所学校发生了枪击事件，八名儿童和一名保安被杀，另外六名学生和一名教师也受伤。警方已逮捕了一名14岁的弗拉迪斯拉夫•莱布尼科夫学校的学生。塞尔维亚教育部长布兰科•鲁齐克通过翻译表达道赞扬学校员工试图保护儿童。
It is unthinkable how when you see the scenes at the scene of the place what the children have been through and the teachers who have tried to protect the children. The government has issued a decision to proclaim a three-day morning period on the entire territory of Serbia. Alexander Melodinovitch is with the BBC Serbian Service in Belgrade. What has he been hearing from the police and from the authorities?
当你在现场看到孩子们经历的事情和试图保护孩子们的老师们时，人们无法想象。政府已经发布了一项决定，在整个塞尔维亚领土上宣布为期三天的哀悼期。亚历山大·梅洛迪诺维奇在贝尔格莱德的BBC塞尔维亚语服务中心工作。他从警方和当局那里听到了什么？
The 14-year-old pupil obviously organized this morning events in great details. He organized a month ago a list of kids, his fellow pupils, he was he intended to shot. He had four rounds of ammunition, a Molotov cocktail that he never used, and a gun he obtained from his parents. He showed up at the end of first class this morning, first shot the guard at the entrance to the school and then started killing fellow students of his own class that had a history lesson with the history teacher he also severely injured. We also heard reports that the student was bullied in the past, though he didn't state that as his motivation. His motives are still to be explored and examined by the police.
这名14岁的学生显然非常详细地组织了今天早上的事件。一个月前，他就制定了一张名单，列出了自己想要开枪射杀的同学。他带了四轮弹药、一个他从未使用过的汽油弹和一支从父母那里得来的枪。今天上午第一节课结束时，他出现在学校门口先向门卫开枪，接着开始杀他自己班级的同学，其中有一名历史老师也遭到了重伤。我们还听说该学生曾经受到欺负，虽然他没有把这作为他的动机。他的动机仍需要警方进一步探索和审查。
Right and in terms of how quickly the police got there and the state of the people who've been wounded I mean has there been much on that? This was an unprecedented event and it's very hard to compare the reaction of the authorities to any other event because nothing of this skill ever happened not only in Serbia but also in the region. It took a while for some parents to find out the whereabouts of their kids. It took some time for them to find out if their kids are safe and sound. It took a while and those moments I would say were the longest in their lives.
关于警方到达的速度以及受伤人员的情况，有多少报道了吗？这是一件前所未有的事件，非常难以将当局的反应与其他任何事件进行比较，因为这种规模的事件在塞尔维亚乃至整个地区都从未发生过。有些家长花了一些时间才能知道他们的孩子在哪里，需要一段时间才能确认他们的孩子是否安全。这些时刻可以说是他们生命中最长的时刻。
They gathered in front of the school one of the most prestigious elementary schools in the Serbian capital awaiting for the information and it didn't last too long until we found out that two more kids are severely injured and are still being treated and built great hospitals. Just briefly Alexander I imagine there are still a fair number of guns around the place in the wake of the wars of the 90s but how restrictive are gun laws in Serbia?
他们聚集在塞尔维亚首都最负盛名的小学门前等待消息，很快我们就得知，还有两名儿童受重伤正在接受治疗。亚历山大，我想在90年代的战争之后，该地区仍然有相当数量的枪支，但塞尔维亚的枪支法律有多严格呢？
The gun rules are quite restricted and it's very widely restricted the gun ownership. The father of the boy had all the licenses for the guns he possessed so it is not now an issue of illegal possession but it is an issue of gun culture that stayed very viable and vivid in the Balkans after the wars in the 90s. That was Alexander Melodinovich from the BBC Serbian service, speaking to me from Belgrade.
枪支管制法规相当严格，在很大程度上限制了枪支所有权。那个男孩的父亲拥有他所持有的所有枪支的许可证，因此这不是非法持有的问题，而是在90年代的巴尔干战争后仍然非常流行和生动的枪支文化问题。这是来自BBC塞尔维亚语服务的亚历山大·梅洛迪诺维奇（Alexander Melodinovich）从贝尔格莱德跟我说的话。
US health officials have declared that the country is facing an epidemic of loneliness which is as dangerous to health as smoking. The surgeon general Vivek Murphy has called social isolation to be treated as seriously as obesity or drug abuse. In a BBC interview he warned that getting on for half of all Americans experience loneliness and that increases their risk of premature mortality by almost a third. In addition to raising the risk of depression, anxiety and suicide, the increase in risk of physical illness like cardiovascular disease, dementia and stroke is profound.
美国卫生官员宣布，该国正面临一种孤独症的流行病，其对健康的危害程度与吸烟相当。外科医生Vivek Murphy称，社交孤立应被严肃对待，就像肥胖或药物滥用一样。在接受BBC采访时，他警告称，接近一半的美国人都经历过孤独，这将会增加他们早逝的风险，几乎提高了三分之一。除了增加抑郁症，焦虑和自杀的风险外，心血管疾病，痴呆症和中风等身体疾病的风险也在明显增加。
It also may surprise people to learn that the increased risk of premature death that's associated with social connection is on par with the risk that we see from smoking daily and greater than the risk we see associated with obesity. So this is a profound public health challenge. Jeremy Nobel is a physician and public health specialist at Harvard Medical School. He's the founder of a non-profit initiative called Project Unlone. What does he make of this intervention from the surgeon general? Do we need such a thing as an antidote to loneliness?
人们可能会吃惊地发现，社交联系增加早逝风险的程度与每天吸烟的风险相当，并且比与肥胖有关的风险更大。因此，这是一个重大的公共健康挑战。杰里米·诺贝尔是哈佛医学院的医生和公共卫生专家，他是一个名为“无孤计划”的非营利组织的创始人。他对外科医生长这种干预所做的贡献是什么？我们需要一种抗孤独的药物吗？
One important thing is to begin to frame the conversation around loneliness so that we begin to understand the complexity of loneliness that it's both a personal issue but also a societal issue. Even the framing of it as something that needs an antidote puts it into a medical model that may not always be helpful. Loneliness, it turns out, is not a disease. It's a brain state. It's a way of making sense of the world. But I don't think we end loneliness or cure it.
其中一个重要的事情是开始围绕孤独展开对话，以便我们开始理解孤独的复杂性，它既是个人问题，也是社会问题。即使将其框定为需要解药的东西，也会将其置于医学模式下，这种方法并不总是有用的。孤独，原来并不是一种疾病，它只是一种大脑状态，是一种理解世界的方式。但我认为我们不会结束孤独或治愈它。
What we do is begin to understand and navigate it and some of the principles laid out by Dr. Murthy, I think, are a major step forward in enabling that. Yeah, so it's about acknowledging it. How far do you think it's down to sort of just the fact of modern life?
我们要做的是开始理解并应对现代生活，而穆西博士提出的一些原则是实现这一目标的重要一步。是的，关键在于承认这一现象。您认为这主要是现代生活的结果吗？
In many ways, we're more interconnected than we've ever been before through our presence online, but that can lead to greater disconnection. Do you think that that is part of it that it's just become a steeper mountain to climb? You know, that is the paradox. We are more connected in some ways. Just consider this lovely conversation we're having right now from such a great distance. Modern life is not just one thing. It's a really complex, wonderful array of many things. And so better understanding the factors in our modern experience that we can adjust, redesign, navigate, be creative about, opens up some. enormous possibilities to be more connected.
在许多方面，我们通过在线存在比以往任何时候都更相互联系，但这可能会导致更大的脱离感。你认为这部分原因是因为变得更加困难了吗？这就是一个悖论。在某些方面，我们更加相互联系。现在我们正在进行的这个美好的交流就是一个例子，尽管我们相距遥远。现代生活并不是单一的事物。它是一个非常复杂、精彩的多种元素的组合。因此，更好地理解我们现代体验中可以调整、重新设计、导航和创造的因素，将开启一些巨大的连接可能性。
I mean, you've obviously spent a lot of time investigating loneliness. Is it possible to sort of define what we mean by it and at what point it starts to become a damaging phenomenon? What are the sort of determining factors for how well people can deal with loneliness? It begins with understanding what loneliness is. So, for instance, being lonely is not the same thing as being alone. Being alone can be such a positive, rewarding, enriching experience. We have a high class word for it. We call it solitude. And yet, being alone in certain circumstances can lead to a very negative state of low self-esteem. The classic definition of loneliness has been the subjective feeling, the gap we have between the social connections we aspire to, what we desire, what we feel we need to have, and what we feel we do have. Just having social connections doesn't mean you will be less lonely.
我是说，你显然花了很多时间研究孤独。是否有可能定义一下我们所说的孤独，以及它何时开始成为一种有害现象？人们处理孤独的能力取决于哪些决定性因素？首先要理解孤独是什么。例如，孤独并不等同于独自一人。独处可以是一种积极的、有益的、充实的经历。我们有一个高级词汇来形容它，叫做孤独。然而，在某些情况下独自一人可能会导致非常消极的自尊心状态。经典的孤独定义是主观感受，即我们渴望、需要和已经拥有的社交关系之间的差距。仅仅拥有社交关系并不能使你更少感到孤独。
Classic example, imagine it's the holiday season and you're thinking about, okay, am I lonely these holidays as many people are? There are two types of loneliness at least in the holidays. One is when you don't have a holiday party to go to, and you feel isolated, ignored. The other is when you do go to a party, but you say, who are all these people around me that I can't connect with? It's a very different kind of loneliness. And we have to understand how loneliness actually appears in our lives, or else it'll be very challenging to take the steps that are personal or a societal level to navigate it.
这是一个经典的例子，想象一下现在是假日季节，你在考虑，我会像许多人一样孤独吗？假期中至少有两种孤独感。一种是当你没有假日聚会可参加时，你会感到孤立和被忽视。另一种情况是当你参加了聚会，但你觉得周围的人都是陌生人，你无法与他们建立联系。这是一种非常不同的孤独感。我们必须了解孤独感是如何在我们的生活中出现的，否则就很难在个人或社会层面上采取措施来应对它。
Tell me a little bit about the project that you have set up, project un-lonely. What are you trying to achieve there? So, project un-lonely is a non-profit initiative started by the foundation for art and healing with three goals. One is to increase awareness of loneliness and its toxicity. The second goal is to reduce the stigma that surrounds it. Many people don't want to mention their loneliness. It leads to an immediate feeling that they may not be worthy or they've done something wrong. But the third is to begin to investigate programs and experiences that can be available to everyone so they can have the experience of being better connected by tapping into the power of creative expression.
请告诉我一些关于你们的项目“Project Un-Lonely”的信息，你们的目标是什么？
“Project Un-Lonely”是由“艺术与康复基金会”发起的非营利性倡议，旨在实现三个目标。第一，增加对孤独及其危害性的认识。第二，减少社会对孤独的污名化。很多人不愿意提及他们的孤独，这导致他们会感到不值得或做错了什么。但是第三，我们开始探索各种项目和体验，使每个人都可以通过创造性表达体验更好的连接感，从而更好地融入社交圈。
For the arts to have been such a sustaining force of almost any culture, must mean they're doing something important for our psyche, something important for us to survive. So we tap into that power of creative expression as a way to give people a sense of connection to themselves, to others and their community. It's minute terrific ride. And that was Jeremy Nobel, a physician and public health specialist at Harvard Medical School on the US Surgeon Generals, warnings about the dangers of loneliness.
艺术作为几乎所有文化的一种支撑力量，一定是为了我们的心灵做了一些重要的事情，对我们的生存也非常重要。因此，我们借助创意表达的力量，为人们提供与自己、他人和社群相连接的感觉。这是一段非常棒的旅程。这是哈佛医学院的医生和公共卫生专家杰里米·诺贝尔在美国卫生局局长就孤独症的危害发出警告时说的话。
This is Neusah, it's live from the BBC, much more to come in the next 30 minutes.
这是来自英国广播公司的新闻节目Neusah，接下来的30分钟还有更多的新闻等待报道。
Welcome back to Neusah. Finding the magic combination which fires a song at the pop music charts is something which the music industry is conjured with as long as there's been a hunger for hits. You might be able to reel off some of the ingredients, the sound, the lyrics, the band, the artist, the look. But how about the weather?
欢迎回到Neusah。找到能让一首歌在流行音乐排行榜上大火的魔法组合，是音乐产业一直以来都在施展的技巧。你可能能够列举出其中的一些要素，比如声音、歌词、乐队、艺术家、外表。但是你想过天气这个因素吗？
Manuel Anglada taught runs the music culture and cognition lab at Oxford University and is the lead author of a study and the effect that the weather and the seasons could have on musical taste. We analyzed all songs that dripped the UK weekly top chart in the last 70 years. And then what we do is that we look at whether some musical features might relate to some extent with changes in weather. And here we looked also at different kind of weather conditions like daily temperatures, hours of sun or rainfall, also recorded in the last 70 years. And then we just use some statistical methods to look in clever ways, this kind of associations. And we find that songs that are energetic, densable and evoked positive emotions such as joy and happiness were positively associated with warm and sunny weather and negatively associated with rainy and cold months.
曼纽尔·安格拉达是牛津大学音乐文化与认知实验室的主要教师，他是一项研究的主要作者，研究了天气和季节对音乐品味的影响。我们分析了过去70年英国每周排行榜中所有歌曲。然后，我们观察一些音乐特征是否与天气的变化在某种程度上相关。在这里，我们也考虑了不同的天气条件，如日常温度、阳光时间或降雨量，这些也在过去70年记录下来。然后，我们使用一些统计方法以明智的方式查看这种关联。我们发现，那些充满活力、跳跃感高和引起积极情绪（如喜悦和幸福）的歌曲与温暖和晴朗的天气呈正相关，而与雨水和寒冷的月份呈负相关。
So some of the best examples they found in our data, this patheto by Luis Fonsi, I'm sure everyone knows. So this song, Dranked the Top Charge in the UK in May 2017. And a second favorite is I want to dance with somebody by Winnie Houston, which stopped the charge in the UK in June 1987.
在我们的数据中，他们发现了一些最好的例子，其中之一是Luis Fonsi的 “Despacito”，我相信每个人都知道。这首歌曲在2017年5月在英国成为最受欢迎的歌曲。第二个受欢迎的歌曲是惠妮·休斯顿的 “I Want to Dance with Somebody”，它在1987年6月在英国成为最受欢迎的歌曲。
Does it work the other way round so that you know miserable music works? better when it's of wet Wednesday in February? We thought that would be the case. So what we did here is that we analyzed all of these big data sets. This is more than 20,000 unique songs and we use machine learning to extract features from it. So we can classify this music in different categories, one category is positive and energetic music, but another category is sad music.
它是否反过来有效，也就是说你是否知道在二月的湿润的星期三听悲惨的音乐会更有效？我们认为是这样。因此，我们在这里分析了所有这些大数据集。这超过了20,000首独特的歌曲，并使用机器学习从中提取特征。因此，我们可以将这种音乐分类为不同的类别，一个类别是积极和充满能量的音乐，但另一个类别是悲伤的音乐。
And we thought this second category would be related, as you said, with bad weather conditions, but we actually find no relationship with this kind of music when it comes to weather variations. And this is potentially interesting because it might indicate that sad music may be more influenced by individual personal stories, like whether you broke up with your partner, for example, whereas positive mood states might be more affected with this kind of collective behavior, like whether saddening is like a sunny day and everyone probably is a bit happier. Music is such a mystery, isn't it? How it works, how it appeals to us, I guess that's all part of your research. That's, I guess, why I study music in the first place, like music is highly subjective and culturally dependent, it's so difficult to study and this challenge is what it makes it so interesting.
我们曾认为这个第二类与恶劣的天气条件有关，但事实上，当涉及到天气变化时，我们实际上并未发现这种音乐与天气有关系。这可能很有意思，因为它可能表明悲伤的音乐更受个人经历的影响，比如你是否与伴侣分手，而积极的情绪状态可能更受这种集体行为的影响，比如悲伤就像阳光明媚的一天，每个人可能都会更快乐一些。音乐是如此神秘，不是吗？它是如何工作、如何吸引我们的，我想这都是你的研究的一部分。这也是我首先学习音乐的原因，因为音乐非常主观且文化依赖，很难研究，而这种挑战正是它如此有趣的原因。
Indeed it does. That was Manuel Anglada taught at Fox University's Music Culture and Cognition Lab. This is news our life from the BBC with me Tim Franks.
确实是这样。曼纽尔·安格拉达曾在福克斯大学音乐文化和认知实验室教授。这是来自英国广播公司的新闻，我是蒂姆·弗兰克斯。
Back to our top story now, the Russian claims that there's been an attempt on President Putin's life and that it's come from Ukraine using drones to attack the Kremlin. There are several videos circulating on social media showing that the moment of the alleged attack, Olga Robinson is with BBC monitoring, there are team in-house who track and translate and analyze global media and they've been trying to verify the authenticity of these images.
回到我们的头条新闻，俄罗斯声称有人试图暗杀普京总统，并且这次袭击来自乌克兰，使用了无人机攻击克里姆林宫。社交媒体上流传着几个视频，显示了袭击的瞬间。BBC有一支跟踪、翻译和分析全球媒体的团队，来验证这些图像的真实性。Olga Robinson 是该团队成员之一。
Olga, what have you been able to learn from looking at them? So hello Tim, in one video we see an object fly late at night over the buildings in the Kremlin complex and then explode over the dome of the San ad palace. That's literally one of the iconic buildings at the heart of Moscow and then other videos circulating online also show the aftermath of the incident or a fire on the same dome and then a plume of smoke following the explosion of this flying object.
Olga，从他们看到的东西里你能学到什么呢？所以，你好Tim，在一个视频中，我们看到一个物体在克里姆林宫建筑上方深夜飞过，并在San ad宫殿的穹顶上爆炸。那是莫斯科中心地带的标志性建筑之一，还有其他在线流传的视频也显示了事故后的情况，或者同一穹顶上的火灾，在这个飞行物爆炸后产生了一股烟雾。
But what remains still unclear is from the footage that we've seen because it was shot from quite a far what exactly was flying over the buildings in the inside the Kremlin complex. However, one drone expert we spoke to suggested that just the way the object is moving in the video is consistent with how a drone would move. However, that in itself is not a definitive answer and ideally you'd need a debris to see it to say for sure but there's just no footage of that.
但仍然不清楚的是，因为镜头拍摄角度较远，我们看到的画面并不能确定在克里姆林宫内部建筑上空飞行物的真实身份。然而，我们采访过一位无人机专家，他表示，视频中飞行物的移动方式与无人机相符。但这本身并不是一个确定的答案，理想情况下，我们需要看到残骸才能确定身份，但就目前看来没有相关的录像资料。
Yeah, one of the videos that I saw intriguingly appeared to show a couple of people on the roof of that senate palace building you were talking about. Yes, it's quite fascinating actually because at first we didn't even notice the ourselves the the two people in the staircase of the dome because it was shot like I said quite from from afar but if you zoom in you can see that just as the object is flying towards the dome of the senate palace you can see two people walking up the stairs of the dome but remains unclear though what exactly they were doing and who they are. Yeah, indeed.
嗯，我看到的一个视频很有趣地显示了一对人站在你刚才提到的参议院宫殿建筑的屋顶上。事实上，这非常引人入胜，因为一开始我们自己甚至没有注意到圆顶楼梯间中的两个人，因为它从远处拍摄，但是如果你放大，就能看到正当物体飞向参议院宫殿圆顶时，你可以看到两个人正在楼梯上走，但是到底他们在做什么和是谁还不清楚。是的，确实。
Well, it all does seem to be a bit of a mystery at the moment. I was seeing that in the US State Department Anthony Blinken, the Secretary of State has said that as far as they're concerned they can't validate reports on that drone strike. We simply don't know he said.
目前这一切似乎都有些神秘。我看到美国国务院的安东尼·布林肯国务卿称，就他们而言，他们无法验证有关无人机袭击的报道。他说，我们根本不知道。
Now to that question which has dominated our last few weeks, who will decide Sudan's future? Will it be the generals and their factions who since the middle of last month cause such destruction and unleashed such chaos inside the country or can at least in the immediate future the outside world in the form of the highest level diplomats and politicians persuade the leader of the Sudanese military and the leader of the paramilitary rapid support forces to agree to a ceasefire this time for seven days starting tomorrow, Thursday and also some sort of meaningful peace talks.
现在谈论的问题是最近几周主宰了我们的问题，那就是谁将决定苏丹的未来。会是几个星期前中间派系引起了如此严重的破坏和混乱的将军和他们的派系，还是在最近的未来外部世界，即最高级别的外交官和政治家，能否说服苏丹军队领导人和准军事快速支援部队的领导人同意停火七天，从明天星期四开始，并进行某种有意义的和平谈判。
The ceasefire as much as anything is to allow desperately needed relief supplies to be distributed and it's for that reason that the UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has arrived in Kenya to try and coordinate that effort. The Sudanese are facing a humanitarian catastrophe. Hospitals destroyed humanitarian warehouses, units, millions facing through insecurity and the Equipreza Trillium Routus strength rails for the parties to de-escovet tensions return to the negotiating table and agree on a lasting ceasefire.
此次停火主要是为了让急需的救援物资得以分发，因此联合国秘书长安东尼奥·古特雷斯已到达肯尼亚协调救援工作。苏丹人正在面临人道主义灾难，医院被摧毁，人道主义仓库被破坏，数百万人面临不安全的局势。Equipreza Trillium Routus希望各方加强力度，缓解紧张局势，回到谈判桌上，达成持久停火协议。
So I hope fair that meaningful talks between the two rival generals Abdel Fattar Al-Buhan and Mahamad Haundan Dagelow and Mehdi might now take place. Pressure for negotiation is coming. from a regional group of countries called Iigad and helping to lead that effort is Africa's newest country South Sudan.
我希望两位对手将军阿卜杜勒·法塔赫·布罕、马哈迈德·豪南达洛和梅赫迪之间有意义的公平谈话现在可以进行。来自一个名为Iigad的区域国家组织的谈判压力正在增加，帮助领导这一努力的是非洲最新的国家南苏丹。
It's perhaps unlikely player in potential peace talks given the protracted and bloody power struggles which have marked its 12 years since independence. I've been speaking to South Sudan's acting Foreign Minister Deng Dao Deng and we'll get on to that point in a moment.
由于自独立以来持续而血腥的权力斗争，南苏丹可能不太可能成为潜在和平谈判的参与者。我正在与南苏丹代理外交部长邓道邓交谈，稍后我们会讨论这一点。
First what are the signs that Buhan and Mehdi will agree to a ceasefire and talks? We have been clearly pushing for the ceasefire, cessation of hostilities, for the purposes of humanitarian access but most importantly for evocation of foreigners and other national that are leaving the areas of war to other safe areas.
首先，布汉和梅赫迪将会同意停火和谈判的迹象是什么？我们已经清晰地推动停火、停止敌对行动，以便进行人道主义援助，但最重要的是为了撤离战区的外国人和其他国家人员到其他安全区域。
Can I ask you about the prospect not just of getting a ceasefire between the two generals but also of encouraging them to actually start peace talks. Do you think to put it candidly? It's about trying to buy the two men off at this juncture. What is crucial at this point?
我可以询问您对于不仅仅是达成两个将军之间停火的前景，而且还鼓励他们开始进行和平谈判的想法。您认为坦白说，这是试图在这个时刻贿赂这两个人吗？关键是在这一点上什么至关重要？
我能否询问您关于不仅仅达成两位将军之间停火的前景，更是鼓励他们开展和平会谈的问题。您认为坦白说，现在试图收买这两个人吗？最关键的是什么？
It's actually as the president I've talked to was to appeal to them at personal level that the Sudanist nation is bigger than them and that the future of their country rests in their shoulder. His excellency president Selva Tog, he knows the pride of the Sudanist army. Of course you have the Sudanist army, they want not to be defeated but again the paramilitary, they have been also operating with the Sudanist army, they don't want to be defeated.
作为总统，我曾与总统交谈，强调苏丹民族的伟大超越个人利益，他们肩负着国家未来的重任。我尊敬的总统Selva Tog，了解苏丹军队的荣誉。当然，苏丹军队不愿被打败，但另一方面，准军事组织和苏丹军队一起行动，他们也不愿被打败。
So these two concepts and beyond that is what he's actually the president I've said it is important for two of you to look at the future of the Sudan, look at the future of those who are suffering now and look at the future of those generations that will come. From 1956 Sudan have not experienced such kind of conflict.
这两个概念以及更重要的是他实际上是总统是什么意思，我已经说过，对于你们两个来说，看看苏丹的未来，看看那些正在遭受苦难的人的未来，以及看看那些即将来临的世代的未来是很重要的。从1956年以来，苏丹没有经历过这种冲突。
It has been just a coups that happened in 1969 and 1971 and 1989 but they were quite limited but this time around his excellency the president have appeal to them that please stop your forces not to attack the rest and let us go for talk so that we can resolve issues that cause these particular tensions between them.
只发生过1969年、1971年和1989年的几次政变，而且规模相对较小。但这一次，总统阁下呼吁他们不要进攻其他方面，并请停止使用武力，让我们去谈判，以解决引发这些紧张局势的问题。
But can I turn that on its head for a minister in the sense that you know the history of Sudan that you have described since the 1950s is not one where civilian power has flourished and what you have got here is two men who together launched a coup two years ago to stop the move towards a hand over to a civilian administration and frankly they've got little incentive it seems now to make peace between themselves in order then that they can give up power once again and hand over to the people who should be in charge civilians elected by the people of Sudan.
但是，作为一位部长，我能否从不同的角度来看待苏丹的历史，您所描述的自上世纪50年代以来的情况并不是民用权力蓬勃发展的情况。现在你面对的是两个人，他们于两年前联手发动政变，以阻止向民用管理机构的移交，并且现在看起来他们没有太大的动机去和解，以便再次放弃权力，将权力交回苏丹人民选出的民用管理者手中。
Well time will time our view is that you're on poor hunt a responsibility as a leader of the Sudan in fact he himself is the share of the head of states of you got currently so yes a responsibility also he may have a responsibility before that they help us in some Sudan to achieve our own peace they were co-grantists and they have come to do for several time of course the issue of civilian government is very crucial but at this particular time the two generals and the stakeholders in the Sudan to come together for them to be able to address the current situation in Sudan.
时间会证明一切，我们认为你担任苏丹领导人的责任不尽如人意。事实上，他本人是现任国家元首的股东。他之前可能对苏丹的和平进程负有责任，但现在他需要承担更多的责任。他们曾经是苏丹和平进程的共同合作者，已经多次来访过。尽管民主政府的问题非常关键，但在当前的情况下，两位将军和苏丹各方利益相关者需要共同努力，以解决苏丹当前面临的局势。
May I ask why you think the warring generals in Sudan should listen to what President Salvat Kier has got to say on this given that south Sudan unfortunately has seen so much conflict itself and peace deals have come and gone I mean why should the generals in Sudan listen to encouragement from south Sudan?
我可以问一下，你为什么认为苏丹的交战将领应该听从肯尼亚总统萨拉瓦特·基尔的发言呢？南苏丹不幸地经历了如此多的冲突，和平协议来了又去，我是说为什么苏丹的将领们应该听从来自南苏丹的鼓励呢？
First we share history we have also a lot of things in commonality and President Salvat was in the Sudanist army before and the first vice president of Republic of Sudan and president of South Sudan yet a lot of contact with the Sudanese army of the SES also he met he at the time when he came into this position he has been a very close contact with President Salvat Kier at it the most important thing is that our experience should not be reflected in Sudan but they should benefit from what they have seen in southern Sudan there are always challenges in between implementation of agreement but we are moving forward in spite of all those difficulties the issue of the Minister of Defense is being discussed and I want to thank Vice-Based President Dr. Rieck and President Salvat they have been discussing this matter and they have agreed to resolve it amicably and we hope that he met he and Yoral Borhan will be able to reflect back on the time the number of jen that they have come to jubo to advise President Salvat and to advise first vice president Dr. Rieck Bashar so that they can implement the agreement.
我们分享历史，也有许多共同点。Salvat总统以前是苏丹军队的一员，也是苏丹共和国的第一副总统和南苏丹总统。他与南苏丹军队有很多联系。在他担任这个职位时，他与President Salvat Kier保持了密切联系。最重要的是，我们的经验不应只反映在苏丹，而是应该让他们从我们在南苏丹看到的受益。在协议实施过程中总会有各种挑战，但我们正在尽力克服这些困难。国防部长的问题正在讨论中，我要感谢副总统Dr. Rieck和总统Salvat，他们一直在讨论这个问题，并同意以和平的方式解决它。我们希望他们和Yoral Borhan能回顾一下他们向总统Salvat和第一副总统Dr. Rieck Bashar提供建议的时间，以便他们可以实施协议。
Thank you Dan Danks south Sudan's from Minister from those grand diplomatic ambitions to the daily scrabble to get by at least for those tens of millions of Sudanese living. with this conflict Tariq Babakir is one of those he lives in Khartoum and Lizawala go he told me what he'd been up to today.
感谢丹·丹克斯，南苏丹的部长。他有雄心壮志，但对于数千万苏丹居民来说，他们每天都在挣扎生存，至少在这场冲突中，塔里克·巴卡尔就是其中之一。他住在喀土穆，位于利扎瓦拉。他告诉我今天他在忙什么。
I've been securing some food supplies to the family which was a bit hectic but then I managed to find a store for some reason was shot for a while and he decided to open today so he had enough supplies so I was quite lucky to get like bottled water and some pastas rice stuff like that oil cooking oil. Okay but I mean just getting food and drinking water presumably is something that you can't take for granted these days.
我一直在为家人保障一些食品供应，这有点忙碌，但最终我找到了一家店，它曾经被关闭了一段时间，但今天重新开门了，所以他们有足够的供应，我很幸运能够买到瓶装水和一些面条、米饭之类的东西，还有一些烹饪油。不过，现在想要得到食物和饮用水，似乎并不是那么容易的事情。
It's not even safe because the current location is not in my residence it's our family business but our house in a place called Khartoum 2 quite an upscale place next to the international airport in the first week or two of fighting has seen like mom apartments and all sort of ammo and shells that have never heard before yeah so we had to move over here it's a bit safer but on the other hand you can't use the roads there is serious exploitation currently going on like if I want to take my family anywhere like the city of ports with Dan for one person it might cost about a thousand dollars so my whole family of four is gonna cost us four thousand dollars we have the money but I'm just saying the current atmosphere is just very sort of unstable.
这个地方并不安全，因为它不是我的住所，而是我们家族的生意所在地。我们的房子位于一个叫做喀土穆2的高档地区，紧邻国际机场。在最初的一两周的战斗中，这个地方看到了许多像妈妈公寓和各种从未听过的弹药和炮弹。因此，我们不得不搬到这里，这里更加安全。但另一方面，你不能使用道路，因为目前存在严重的剥削行为。比如，如果我想带家人去什么地方，比如丹吉尔港市，那一个人可能要花费大约一千美元，所以我们一家四口要花费四千美元。我们有钱，但我只是说，当前的气氛非常不稳定。
Yeah I'm sure may I ask why you haven't taken the decision to try to leave? My father who had a stroke he's a semi-paralleled and then I have my mom and sister they go like if my dad is not coming when I'm coming so and then I feel like you know a country every now is it is like serious security sort of unrest I would say that's been exploited by mobs they're like 500 or thousand of them they go storm a market and rob it or they storm a house and rob it as they can kill someone you know what I mean so I felt like my semi-paralleled dad and my mom's sister would be quite vulnerable for anything like that so I'd rather sort of protect them or I wonder how how aware you are tarryk of the efforts that are going on outside Sudan to try and bring the two warring factions together to agree a ceasefire and to agree to peace talks and and if you are aware of them what what what you make of these efforts I've heard that there is like most of the efforts apparently for a ceasefire for for evacuations etc but I think these efforts won't work out because the two parties are quite hard headed you know what I mean on the other hand the army they feel like they have to like relinquish the powers of the hematee of the other side and other side of the hand has his alliance the tribal alliance which from Sudan goes through Chad and Niger and all those Arabian tribal his that supports him apparently and he has even support from Wagner group apparently in Russian they all like fuel the conflict so I think the ceasefire won't work because there is like international players a medal in the peace process or a medal in even the ceasefire well all of which I mean it sounds plausible but it also means that it doesn't sound as if you feel that there's much of a future for you and your family in Sudan you know it's quite a sad saying you know.
你确定不想尝试离开苏丹吗？可能我可以问问原因吗？我父亲中风了，半瘫痪，然后我有我的母亲和妹妹，如果我父亲不和我一起回来，他们就会很害怕。此外，我感觉这个国家的安全局势很严峻，被暴徒利用，他们有500或1000人，会袭击市场或者屋子然后抢劫，可能杀人。所以我觉得我半瘫痪的父亲和母亲、妹妹会很容易成为受害者，我宁愿保护他们。还有一个问题，你知道目前国际社会为了缓和冲突，达成停火协议正在进行哪些努力吗？如果知道，你认为这些努力有效吗？听说有很多努力，例如停火、撤离，但我认为这些努力不会奏效。因为两个主战派都很固执。一个要放弃权力，一个有一些部族联盟支持他们，这些部族从苏丹经过尼日尔、乍得，还有阿拉伯部族支持他们，他们甚至得到了来自俄罗斯的“瓦格纳集团”的支持。所以我认为停火不会奏效，因为国际势力在干涉和破坏和平过程。这也意味着，你似乎认为在苏丹的未来并不乐观，对你和你的家人而言这是一个悲伤的说法。
I have a manufacturing plant my dad has a manufacturing plant I don't know we have probably 99 percent of our assets over here well over two million city I don't know probably four million dollars I don't know and they all probably worth nothing right now and that's like the worst nightmare ever you know what I mean because that's that's how it is really. Tarek Baugh here on the really disastrous reality of trying to get by in Sudan at the moment this is news app live from the BBC this is news app it's live from the BBC I'm Tim Franks.
我拥有一家制造工厂，我爸爸也拥有一家制造工厂。我们大概有99%的资产在这里，价值超过两百万城市，但现在可能一分钱也不值。这就像是最可怕的噩梦一样，你知道的，因为现在情况确实就是这样。Tarek Baugh在苏丹艰苦生存的崩溃现实中谈到了这个问题。这是来自BBC的实时新闻应用程序，我是Tim Franks。
I mentioned earlier in the program that the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres was in Kenya trying to organize humanitarian relief in Sudan. On route, he had stopped in Doha in Qatar to try and staunch the damage in a rather longer running catastrophe: the situation in Afghanistan. Boys from several countries were brought together to try to agree on a unified approach for dealing with the Taliban authorities. You may recall how they recently banned women from working for NGOs, despite a spiraling humanitarian crisis in the country.
在本节目早些时候，我提到了联合国秘书长安东尼奥·古特雷斯正在肯尼亚尝试组织苏丹的人道主义援助。在路上，他停留在卡塔尔多哈，试图止住一场持续时间更长的灾难的伤口：阿富汗的局势。来自多个国家的男孩们聚集在一起，试图就处理塔利班政府的一致方法达成协议。您可能记得他们最近明令禁止妇女为非政府组织工作，尽管该国的人道主义危机正在急速恶化。
Two-thirds of people don't know where their next meal will come from. An unestimated 167 children under the age of five die every day because of preventable diseases. That's according to UNICEF. Public health infrastructure that was weak before the Taliban took over and foreign funding was frozen is now virtually broken. The little that is being supported by aid agencies could also be under threat because of those Taliban policies.
三分之二的人不知道他们的下一餐从哪里来。据联合国儿童基金会称，每天有未估计的167个五岁以下的儿童因可预防疾病而死亡。在塔利班政权掌控前基础设施就薄弱的公共卫生系统现在已经几乎崩溃了，外国资金也被冻结。由援助机构支持的一点点帮助也可能因为塔利班政策的威胁而受到威胁。
In the western province of Gore, the BBC's Yogi Telemaya, together with her BBC colleagues Sanjay Ganguly and Imogen Anderson, has this disturbing report on what that would mean for Afghanistan's children. "I'm in the main hospital in the province of Gore in the west of Afghanistan. I'm in the pediatric ward. To the left and right are rooms that are full of patients. They're all looking overcrowded to me. I've just stepped into one now. There are about 10 beds or so here, and on each one, there is more than one child. Some of them have three children on them. Doctors have told us that most of these children are suffering from pneumonia.
在阿富汗西部戈尔省，BBC的优吉·特莱玛亚与她的BBC同事桑杰伊·甘古利和伊莫金·安德森带来了一个令人担忧的报道，说明如果战争继续，会对阿富汗的儿童意味着什么。 "我在阿富汗西部戈尔省的主要医院，我在儿科病房。左右两侧都是挤满了病人的房间，对我来说都显得非常拥挤。我现在走进了其中一个房间。这里有大约10张床，每张床上都有一个以上的孩子。有些床上有三个孩子。医生告诉我们，这些孩子中的大多数都患有肺炎。"
In the past one and a half years, we've been to at least a dozen hospitals and clinics across this country. The situation everywhere has been grim, but I can tell you I've not seen this level of overcrowding before. One-year-old Sir Jard's breathing is rapidly worsening, but there's no oxygen mask for his small face. All around the room, which is the hospital's intensive care unit for children, mothers are holding oxygen pipes near the noses of their babies, trying to fill in for a lack of trained staff and medical equipment.
在过去的一年半中，我们至少去过这个国家的十几家医院和诊所。到处的情况都很严峻，但我可以告诉你我之前从未见过这种程度的拥挤。一岁的贾德小姐的呼吸状况急剧恶化，但没有适合他小脸的氧气面罩。在这个医院的儿科重症监护室里，房间里的母亲们都拿着氧气管，在他们的宝宝鼻子附近尝试填补缺乏训练有素的工作人员和医疗设备的空缺。
We've just stepped out of one of the rooms that's full of little children. We've gone and earlier, and the doctor had pointed out one baby in the corner who was suffering from pneumonia, severe acute management, and hepatitis. And as we were looking at the child, the baby didn't appear to be breathing. The doctor called in nurses. They came in with oxygen masks, and at this moment, they are trying to revive the baby. The baby's name is Thia Bulla. He's three months old. A nurse uses an oxygen pump to try to get him to breathe. They've heard a faint heartbeat through the stethoscope. A doctor uses his thumbs to perform compressions on Thia Bulla's tiny chest.
我们刚刚走出了一个房间，里面充满了小孩子。我们早些时候来过这里，医生指出了一个角落里患有肺炎、急性重症管理和肝炎的婴儿。当我们看着这个孩子的时候，他似乎没有呼吸了。医生呼叫了护士们，他们拿着氧气面罩进来，此时他们正在试图挽救这个孩子。孩子的名字是Thia Bulla，他三个月大。一位护士使用氧气泵来让他呼吸。他们通过听诊器听到了微弱的心跳声。一位医生用他的拇指在Thia Bulla的小胸部进行按压。
The sudden silence that has emulated in the room is broken by the sound of his mother Nigar crying, as she realizes her son is fading. His grandfather Ghosaddin looks stricken. It took them eight hours on rumbled roads to carry Thia Bulla here. A family that can barely afford to eat scraped together money to make the journey. After half an hour of trying, the family stoned Thia Bulla has died. Nurse Edimasalthani had tried to save Thia Bulla with whatever little they have in the hospital but was defeated by a lack of resources. "I'm also a mother, and when I saw the baby die, I felt like I've lost my child. When I saw his mother sobbing, it broke my heart. It hurt my conscience. We don't have equipment and trained staff. There is nothing we can do but watch babies dying."
房间突然陷入了沉默，随后母亲Nigar的哭声打破了这种安静，因为她意识到她的儿子正在消失。他的祖父Ghosaddin看起来很苦恼。他们花了八个小时在颠簸的路上把Thia Bulla带到了这里。一个几乎无法负担吃饭的家庭凑钱进行了这次旅行。尽管全家人努力了半个小时，他们所投掷的石头并未救活Thia Bulla。Edimasalthani护士尽最大努力用医院现有的资源挽救她，但最终因为缺乏资源而失败了。“我也是一个母亲，当我看到这个婴儿死去时，我感觉就像失去了自己的孩子。当我看到他的母亲哭泣时，我的心碎了。这让我的良心受到了伤害。我们没有设备和训练有素的工作人员，除了看着婴儿死去，我们没有办法。”
Barely a few moments pass before we find another child in severe distress in the room next door. Do we roll Gulbatham is struggling to breathe despite the oxygen mask strapped to her face. She has a hard defect diagnosed six months ago at this hospital, but it's not equipped to treat her. So, the family took her to Kabul. Her grandmother Afwagul told us, "We borrowed money to take her there, but we couldn't afford surgery in Kabul, so we had to bring her back. Please help us cure them."
只过了几分钟，我们就在隔壁的房间里又发现一个孩子遭受严重的痛苦。古尔巴瑟姆戴着氧气面罩，但仍然呼吸困难。她在六个月前被诊断出有一个心脏缺陷，但这家医院没有能力治疗她。因此，家人将她带到喀布尔。她的祖母阿夫瓦古告诉我们：“我们借钱带她去那里，但我们无法负担喀布尔的手术费，所以我们不得不把她带回来。请帮助我们治愈他们。”
What Gulbatham has is not uncommon or hard to treat. It could have been fixed with a routine operation. She'd just begun to speak, forming her first words calling out to her family. Her father Navruz strokes her forehead, wanting to soothe his child forced to helplessly watch as she suffers. "If I had an income, she would have never suffered. Right now, I don't even have the money to buy a cup of tea. This hospital doesn't have any equipment to cure. You can barely find oxygen."
古勒巴托姆的情况并不罕见或难以治疗。这可以通过常规手术修复。她刚开始说话，发出了她的第一句话，呼唤着她的家人。她的父亲纳弗鲁兹抚摸着她的额头，想要慰藉他的孩子，但却无助地看着她受苦。 "如果我有收入，她永远不会受苦。现在，我甚至没有买一杯茶的钱。这家医院没有任何设备可以治疗。你几乎找不到氧气。"
I asked doctor Ahmad Samadhi, who was in the room about oxygen, "How much oxygen does the patient require right now, the hard defect?" "Two liters of oxygen per minute," he replied. "And if we run out of oxygen, she will die."
我问在房间里的阿哈迈德·萨玛迪医生关于氧气的问题：“病人现在需要多少氧气，这个严重的问题？”他回答说：“每分钟两升氧气。”“如果我们用完氧气，她就会死。”
When we came back later, we were told that's exactly what happened. Gulbatham died because oxygen ran out. Within hours, two children died, another crushing blow for doctor Samadhi, who runs the pediatric ward. "I feel exhaustion and agony. Every day, we lose one or two beloved children of court." we're almost accustomed to it now we need equipment ventilators and monitors we need oxygen and medicines for 20 years the world spent billions of dollars on Afghanistan's public health care what we've seen raises questions about how that money was spent in gore it hasn't taken long for the hospital to crumble after a regime change the salaries of doctors and nurses at this hospital the cost of medicines and food are currently being funded by humanitarian agencies even with the support it is clear that that is solely insufficient on the ground and the idea that that funding could be at risk now because aid agencies are warning that donors might cut the money that they're giving to them because of the Taliban's policies if that cut in funding happens in places like this it would be catastrophic and there was a Yigita Lamaya reporting from Afghanistan western Afghanistan she's South Asia correspondent she's one of our fantastic network of correspondence around the world you also heard from one of our team in Belgrade and our Russia editor Steve Rosenberg in Moscow we are very grateful to the work that all of them do that's it from the sedition of Nizhah from Me Tim Franks and the rest of the team here in London thanks you company news hour has been a download from the BBC to discover more and our terms of use visit bbc.com slash podcast the documentary brings together the best of factual storytelling from across the BBC world service this is a historic opportunity for peace to end violence for good in northern Ireland exploring the world around us and bringing the globe to your ears the invasion meant that the lives of millions of Iraqis changed forever there are still some memories that I can't talk about search for the documentary wherever you get your bbc podcasts
当我们回来后，我们被告知这正是所发生的事情。古尔巴瑟姆因氧气耗尽而死亡。几小时后，又有两名儿童死亡，这对负责儿科病房的萨玛迪医生来说是又一次沉重打击。“我感到疲惫和痛苦。每天，我们都会失去一两个我非常喜爱的孩子。” 我们现在几乎已经习以为常了，但我们需要呼吸机和监护设备，我们需要氧气和药品。在过去的20年里，全世界在阿富汗的公共卫生保健上花费了数十亿美元。我们看到的情况引发了对这些资金如何使用的质疑。在战乱后，这家医院很快就崩溃了，目前医生和护士的工资，以及药品和食品的费用都由人道主义组织提供。即使有这些支持，显然还是严重不足。现在，援助机构警告说，由于塔利班的政策，捐赠者可能会削减他们提供的资金，这意味着那些资金可能会面临风险。如果像这样的资金削减发生在像这样的地方，那将是灾难性的。这是来自阿富汗西部的伊吉塔拉马娅的报道，她是南亚通讯员，我们的伟大的全球通讯员网络中的一员，您还听到了我们团队在贝尔格莱德的一名成员和位于莫斯科的俄罗斯编辑斯蒂夫·罗森伯格的声音。我们非常感谢他们所做的工作。这就是来自伊汀克雷特弗兰克斯和我们伦敦团队的《时事新闻时段》的全部内容。感谢您的陪伴！此次报道来自英国广播公司。若想了解更多信息或我们的使用条款，请访问bbc.com/podcast。这档纪录片集合了来自英国广播公司世界服务部门最好的事实讲述的内容。这是结束北爱尔兰暴力、实现和平的历史性机会，探索我们周围的世界，让全球走进你的耳朵。入侵导致数百万伊拉克人的生活永久改变。还有一些回忆我无法谈论。请在您获取bbc播客的任何地方搜索纪录片。
In 2012 a new charity bursts onto the scene it's called believe in magic and it grants wishes to seriously ill children it's run by an inspirational 16 year old girl called Megan Barry just wanted to look at the magical the experience is back it has the support of the biggest boy band in the world one direction believe in magic quickly becomes a household name in the child cancer community putting on parties sending thoughtful gifts even organizing trips to Disney every single child there felt like they were so important and they they weren't poorly they weren't in a hospital it was out of this world Megan is adored by all those she helps she had more sympathy and love for people than I never met anybody before because she herself is extremely unwell with a life threatening brain tumor her handbag was so heavy none of us could ever carry it and it was full of medicine when something doesn't add up about Megan's story a small group of parents start to question whether Meg is really ill I'd call it a witch hunt kind of thing asking questions like which hospital you in they know that they're not being honest about her illnesses we collectively said we won't let it drop we'll find out this time but is Megan actually facing a very different danger it's awful it's really not nice listening to that what is this girl going through I'm Jamie Bartlett a journalist and author and together with the producer Ruth we've spent the last year trying to get to the bottom of what really happened to Megan Barry and her charity believe in magic I cannot let I hear me understand why you've done what you've done to us it takes us on a journey far stranger I just saw him say these were my thoughts it was it that's not a car it's not a car is it and far darker than we ever expected I know what the truth is I've read the records and they just come in and lie to me it wasn't supposed to end like this listen to believe in magic
2012年，一个名为“相信魔法”的新慈善组织出现了，它满足了患病儿童的心愿。这个组织由一位16岁的鼓舞人心的女孩Megan Barry领导，她想让这些孩子们的经历变得神奇起来。这个组织得到了全球最大男孩乐队One Direction的支持，相信魔法很快成为了儿童癌症社区中的家喻户晓的名字，它组织聚会，寄送贴心的礼物，甚至组织去迪士尼的旅行！每个孩子都感到自己非常重要，他们不再感到疾病的煎熬和医院的孤寂，这是超凡的体验。Megan受到了所有她所帮助的人的爱戴，因为她自己患有威胁生命的脑瘤，她的手提包很重，我们没人能够背得动，里面装满了药品。
然而，当一些家长对Megan的病情产生了疑问时，事情变得有些蹊跷了。他们开始提出问题，比如她在哪家医院就诊。他们知道有关Megan病情的信息不实，并决定一起查明真相。然而，Megan是否确实面临着不同的危险呢？听起来太糟糕了，真不想听下去，究竟这个女孩经历了什么？
我是记者和作家Jamie Bartlett，与制片人Ruth一起，花了一年的时间努力解开Megan Barry及其慈善组织“相信魔法”背后的真相。我无法理解为什么你会对我们做出这样的事情，这让我们踏上了一段比我们预期的更神奇、更黑暗的旅程。我知道真相是什么，我看过记录，他们对我说谎。事实并不应该以这样的结局结束。请听听关于“相信魔法”的故事。