Voices of China
发布时间 2021-03-06 12:00:00 来源
Hello and welcome to the History Extra Podcast from BBC History Magazine, Britain's bestselling History Magazine. I'm Ellie Corporn.
大家好，欢迎收听BBC历史杂志的History Extra播客节目。作为英国最畅销的历史杂志，我们非常荣幸能够为您提供最新的历史知识。我是节目主持人Ellie Corporn。
How do you tell the story of a civilization as rich, varied and ancient as China? Well in his latest book, The Story of China, Michael Wood argues that listening to the voices of individuals down the centuries can offer enlightening windows on Chinese history. In this talk, first delivered as part of our virtual lecture series, he introduces us to five of those voices.
如何讲述一个如中国这样丰富、多样、古老的文明的故事呢？在他的最新著作《中国的故事》中，迈克尔·伍德认为倾听历史上的个体声音可以为了解中国历史提供启迪。在这次讲座中，他向我们介绍了五个这样的声音。这次讲座是我们虚拟讲座系列的一部分。
Tonight I'm going to talk about China, a country that you can't keep out of the news right now. The China is the subject of my new book, The Story of China.
今晚我要谈谈中国，这个现在在新闻中无法忽略的国家。中国是我新书《中国故事》的主题。
It's been a long time in gestation. I first visited China in the early 80s and first filmed in China in the late 80s. In the last seven years, made a dozen films. And I think in making those films, my concern has always been number one that the TV audience should enjoy being in China and enjoy being with the people of China.
这个项目孕育已久。我早在80年代初就访问过中国，在80年代晚期首次在中国拍摄了电影。在过去的七年中，我制作了十几部电影。在创作这些电影时，我一直关心的是，电视观众应该尽情地享受在中国，并享受和中国人民在一起的乐趣。
It's very important to me that I've also been very keen to show that Chinese history needn't be impenetrable, impossibly difficult to get hold of. Its story is an incredible drama and creativity and humanity. Much of the live characters that match and surpass any British and European history from scientists and travellers and poets, men and women, of course, peasants and emperors, and at least a couple of peasants who became emperors.
对我来说很重要的是，我一直非常热衷于展示中国历史并非晦涩难懂，难以把握。它的故事是一场不可思议的戏剧，有创造力和人性。许多活生生的人物的故事比英国和欧洲的历史中的科学家、旅行家、诗人、男女、农民和皇帝更加生动有趣，甚至至少有一对成了皇帝的农民。
These are wonderful stories which illuminate the enduring values of Chinese civilization if I can put it that way, which is my real theme tonight. I'll come back to those values later.
这些故事非常精彩，揭示了中国文明的持久价值，如果可以这样说的话，这是我今晚真正的主题。我稍后会回到这些价值观。
I've tried to write the book, I suppose you'd say, with a filmmaker's eye. In a nutshell, it's the kind of book that I was wanted to read about China. I was delighted a few days ago to have a reader, Brazil, who was reading the book for a top publisher there saying, oh, it's like a novel. That's the flow that I wanted to get out of the story, seeing the whole pattern of a nation's history as an amazing kind of human drama.
我试图用一个电影制片人的眼光来写这本书。简而言之，这是我想了解中国的一种书。 几天前，我很高兴地听到一位来自巴西的读者，他是一家顶尖出版社的读者，他说这本书就像小说一样。这就是我想从故事中得到的流动感，将整个国家历史的结构看作一个惊人的人类戏剧。
That's what I was out to do. The grand narrative and the close-up at the bottom, looking at the world from below as well as from the top down, from the regions and the villages as well as from the capitals and giving us a strong sense of the landscape too. All of the sense that the local history, the traditional culture of China, which I think many of us thought in the early 80s had gone forever under the onslaught of communism, actually, is still there.
我所要做的就是这样。这个宏大的叙述和底层的局部视角，从下方和从上方，从地区和乡村以及从首都观察世界，并让我们对景观有了强烈的感觉。所有这些都让我们感受到当地历史、中国传统文化仍然存在，我认为在80年代初许多人认为这些已经被共产主义的冲击彻底摧毁。
As you saw in that amazing scene with the farmers festival in Hernán with a million people gathering to see the goddess Nu Wa. The book also has that sense of living culture and many families contributed to the memories that are in the book.
在你在《赫尔南》里看到了那个让人惊叹的农民节庆典场景，有一百万人聚集在一起，看着女神女娲。这本书也有那种充满生命力的文化气息，许多家庭对书中的回忆做出了贡献。
I also wanted the book to be really up to date with the latest archaeological discoveries, the latest documentary discoveries. There's new and very significant leaked papers from Tiananmen Square, Massacre in 1989 that came out only last summer that are in the book. The other end of China's history, incredible letters from the Silk Road in the hand dynasty.
我也希望这本书能够真正跟上最新的考古发现和文献发现。该书中包含了最新的泄露文件，这些文件涉及1989年天安门广场大屠杀，这些文件仅在去年夏天才公诸于众。除此之外，该书还有来自丝绸之路手朝时期的令人难以置信的信件，涵盖了中国历史的各个时期。
Letters from the ordinary soldiers of the Qin army, the real-life Tera Cotta army, writing back home like the Vindalandar tablets on Hadrian's Wall, only far more detailed and more expressive and I'll read you a tiny little bit here.
这段话的意思是：秦始皇兵马俑中的普通士兵写给家人的信，就像哈德良长城上的文达兰达碑文一样，只是更加详细和表达更加充分。下面我向你们读一小段。
The Tera Cotta army soldier writing home to mum in the 220s BC. Dear mum, our unit is about to attack rebel strongholds in Hernán. Long it will take how many of us will be captured or wounded no one knows. It's very sweet of him writing back home to mum, not mentioning the fact that quite a few of them will be killed and then there's a PS. But when you get this letter mum, can you go to An Lu Market? And get some cheap silk cloth and if you've got time run me up an unlined skirt and a shirt and send it with the cash that I asked you for. If the cloth is too dear, just send a cash and I'll run the clothes up myself. By the way, how's Auntie and Sister and Aunt Gushu is the marriage still taking place? Isn't it?
西安兵马俑中的士兵公元前220年写信给他的母亲。亲爱的妈妈，我们部队即将攻击位于云南的叛军据点。谁也不知道需要多长时间和我们中的多少人会被俘或受伤。他写信给妈妈非常暖心，没有提到很多人会被杀死的事实。但是，当你收到这封信时，妈妈，你可以去安禄市场吗？买些便宜的丝绸布料，如果有时间的话给我做一条没有内衬的裙子和一件衬衫，并把我要求的钱一起寄过来。如果布料太贵，只需寄钱，我自己做衣服即可。顺便问一下，阿姨和妹妹还有姑姑古曙，他们的婚姻还会继续吗？是吧？
That's the magic of history, the voices of the past. Any of us who love history, when you search in the past, the things that you most want to touch on are the voices of the people of the past. In what way were they like us? In what way were they different? How did they respond to the often cataclysmic events of their time? That sense of the voices is the thing that I've tried to run through the book. And tonight I've chosen five voices, my favorite voices, through China's history to give you a sense of how individual lives weave with the grand narrative and also how in these individual voices you gather things, crucial things about the core values of the civilization.
这是历史的魅力，是过去的声音。我们中任何一个热爱历史的人，当你回顾过去时，最想接触的就是过去人的声音。他们和我们有何相似之处？他们与我们的不同之处在哪里？他们如何应对那些常常引起灾难性事件的时代？我试图在这本书中贯穿这种声音的感觉。今晚，我选择了五个我最喜欢的人物，通过中国历史中的这些个体声音，让你感受到生活和宏大叙事的交织，也让你在这些个体声音中收集到一些关于文明核心价值观的关键信息。
I've chosen five writers, the first ones are poet. Poetry is one of the great arts in Chinese civilization. It's often forgotten that China is the oldest living tradition of poetry in the world. Great poetic anthology of the book of songs. Going back to the 11th century BC, songs of love, war, labor, agricultural feastings and festivals, songs about the human heart, are far older than the early addon, the odyssey. Poets, men and women too. And the poets have been the voices of Chinese culture all the way through.
我选择了五位作家，其中第一位是诗人。诗歌是中国文明中最伟大的艺术之一。人们经常忘记中国是世界上最古老的诗歌传统。《诗经》是伟大的诗歌选集。回到公元前11世纪，关于爱情、战争、劳动、农业盛宴和节日、关于人心的歌曲，远比早期的史诗《奥德赛》更古老。诗人，男女皆有。诗人一直是中国文化的代表声音。
There have been many great ages but by common consent that Tang Dynasty is the greatest, that's between the sort of 600s and the 900s in the ancient British history, the Age of Beirwalth. And that's the favorite period of Chinese people. I once did a box of pop with a film crew among the crowds of tourists in the Shanghai Expo. Just asking everybody what's your favorite period in Chinese history? A few said the song Dynasty, quite right, but most said the time. And why? Because China went out to the world, the world came to China. But also the great civilization, the poetry. 40,000 poems survived from the Tang Dynasty alone. Incredible, isn't it? Men and women.
有很多伟大的时代，但普遍认为唐朝是最伟大的时代，即公元600年到900年间的贝尔瓦尔特时代。这也是中国人最喜欢的时期。我曾经和一组拍摄队伍在上海世博会中混在游客群众中，问大家最喜欢中国历史的哪个时期？有几个人说是宋朝，很正确，但大多数人说的是唐朝。为什么呢？因为中国走向了世界，世界也走向了中国。还有伟大的文明、诗歌。仅唐朝就有超过40,000首诗歌流传至今，男女都有。
The greatest of them is the poet Dufu. Live from 712 to 770. People in the UK and our audience may have seen the film that we made about Dufu's life in April here in the UK with Sirian Mackellen doing very effectively doing the readings from the poet. In the film Professor Stephen Owen, great expert on Dufu, who's just published the first full translation in English of Dufu's poems. So there's Dante, the Shakespeare, and there's Dufu. And why? Because they're the great poets who help create the emotional vocabulary of the culture. He says, and really since the 11th century Dufu has been regarded as the greatest poet in China.
其中最伟大的是诗人杜甫。他出生于712年，逝世于770年。在英国以及我们的观众可能已经看到我们在四月份在英国制作的关于杜甫生平的电影，其中Sirian Mackellen非常有效地为诗人朗读。在电影中，杜甫的专家Stephen Owen教授，刚刚出版了杜甫诗歌的第一部完整英文翻译。因此，有但丁、莎士比亚，还有杜甫。为什么？因为他们是帮助创造文化情感词汇的伟大诗人。自11世纪以来，杜甫就被视为中国最伟大的诗人。
He was a prosian talent. The comparison with Shakespeare isn't misplaced. He writes about friendship, about love, about the family, about the stuff of life, all the things that the Chinese people love, eating together, drinking. But above all, he's the poet historian. He lived through cataclysmic fall of the tongue dynasty in the 750s, and gigantic disaster which marked China forever, in which 30 million Chinese people were either killed, in war, died of famine or driven out as refugees. According to the tongue dynasty censuses themselves, it was a tremendous blow to the high civilization of the tongue. And Dufu experienced that at first hand, although he was born into a quite wealthy middle class, he became a refugee, was driven from place to place, and experienced what we see on our TV screens in Syria and the Yemen and so on, and made his art about that.
他是一位散文才子，与莎士比亚作比较也不过分。他笔下的题材有关友谊、爱情、家庭，以及人们热爱的相聚吃饭、喝酒等生活琐碎。但最重要的是，他是一位诗人历史学家。他亲身经历了唐朝在750年代的灾难性衰落，面对着贯穿中国历史的巨大灾难，其中有三千万中国人在战争中死亡、死于饥荒或被迫成为难民。根据唐朝的人口普查，这对唐朝高度文明来说是个极大的打击。尽管他出生于相当富裕的中产阶级家庭，但他成为了一个难民，并被迫流离失所，在叙利亚、也门等地我们在电视上看到的就是他所经历的，他创作的艺术也正是反映了这一点。
He wrote about the patience and suffering of the ordinary people, and they've loved him forever for that. And still do. They're betrayal by indolent rulers, corrupt rulers. Portraits of people who've lost everything, I think British readers would look at him and perhaps catch some of that magical ventriloquy kippling does, for example, of the ordinary British soldiers of the Victorian Empire, you know, Tommy Akkins and Danny Deever, the road to Mandalay. Dufu does that with the poor, poor rank and file soldiers of the tongue dynasty.
他写过普通人民的耐心和苦难，因而他们一直钟爱他。现在依然如此。他们背叛了无为的统治者，腐败的统治者。他描绘了失去一切的人，我认为英国读者会对他产生共鸣，并或多或少领略到金宝林使用的那种神奇的口技，比如维多利亚帝国的普通英国士兵，你知道的，汤米.阿坎斯和丹尼.迪弗，通往曼德勒的道路。杜甫也是以唐代普通士兵为主题进行类似的写作。
But he also, you get a sense of the tragic destiny of the time, which you would parallel perhaps with some of the great first world war poets, Apollinaire, on the verge of the disaster in August 1914. Some of the great European poets, Georg Tragl, and others who died in the war and who had that sense of the values of European civilization, had been devastated by the first world war. Or W. A. Jordan on the 1st of September 1939, again, seeing the end of an age, almost, a new world waiting to be born, which nobody, when nobody knew how it would go, but the Owmans were bad.
然而，您可以感受到这个时代悲惨命运的氛围，或许可以与一战中的一些优秀诗人阿波利奈尔相媲美。一些伟大的欧洲诗人，如乔治·特拉格尔等在一战中不幸去世，他们深刻地感受到了欧洲文明的价值被摧毁的痛苦。而W.A.乔丹则在1939年9月1日，看到了一个时代的终结，一个新世界等待着诞生，谁也不知道事态将如何发展，但乌云密布。
Dufu experienced all that, he understood that you can mourn as deeply for an ideal, as you can for a loved one, and that's what he writes about in his greatest poetry. And then his themes become universal. When he goes home, he's moved his family out for safety from the capital to stay in a village to the north. He finally gets home, having walked all night on foot and discovers that his baby son has died of starvation. And then he becomes every man. I am ashamed of being a father, so poor that I caused my son to starve to death. How could I have known that the autumn harvest would not be enough to save the poor from disaster? And yet I am one of the privileged.
杜甫经历了许多事情，他明白了一个人可以为理想深切哀悼，就像为亲人一样。这就是他在他最伟大的诗歌中所写的。随后，他的主题变得普遍。当他回家时，他已经把家人从首都搬到北边的一个村子里，为了安全起见。他终于走回家，整夜徒步走了许久，却发现他的婴儿儿子已经饿死了。于是他变成了每一个人。我为成为一个贫穷的父亲以致导致我的儿子被饿死而感到羞愧。我怎么会知道秋季的收成不足以挽救穷困者的灾难呢？然而我是特权阶层之一。
If my life is so bitter, how much worse is the life of the common man? I find myself, when I read that poem, thinking of Shakespeare's king, Lear, discovering what it is like as the state disintegrates around him to become a poor naked, unaccommodated man.
如果我的生活如此痛苦，那么普通人的生活会更糟吗？当我读到这首诗时，我会想起莎士比亚的国王李尔，当他周围的国家分崩离析时，变成了一个穷困、赤身裸体、不得安身立足的人。
And what does Dufu's poetry tell us about China? Well, he was a confusion. His cultural roots, he tells us, were in those values of loyalty to the state of course, providing the state was run virtuously. But the core values, civility, benevolence, virtue, truthfulness, morality, ideas deeply internalized by the culture from more than two millennium. And still there, it seems to me.
杜甫的诗歌让我们了解了什么呢？他曾是迷惘的。他告诉我们，他的文化根源在于忠于国家的价值观，当然，前提是国家必须运行得道德正义。但是，核心价值观——礼貌、仁慈、德行、真实、道德——这些文化深入人心，已经传承了两千多年，我想这些价值观仍然存在。
And because of that, although he died in total obscurity, by the 11th century Dufu had come to be seen as the great poet and has been ever since, expressing what it means to be Chinese in the greatest words in the Chinese language, as Stephen Owen said. And he still taught us school today. You, every Chinese person learns a couple of his poems.
由于如此，尽管杜甫死后默默无闻，但到了11世纪，他已经被视为伟大的诗人，并且一直被誉为能用中文最伟大的文字表达中国人的精神，如斯蒂芬·欧文所说。今天他的作品仍在学校教学中传授。每一个中国人都会学一些他的诗。
To that, let me add one thing. Thinking about his confusion as him, China was not a religious society in our sense. You know, of course, the howism, Buddhism, many different folk, religions and cults were everywhere. And they're enjoying a massive revival today in China. But there was no all-embracing system of morality given by a religion or theology, as there was in Western monotheism. They got that from Confucianism. But Confucius wasn't concerned with the gods or the afterlife.
在此，让我补充一件事情。如果以他的视角来想，中国不是一个和我们同样的宗教社会。当然，你知道有道教、佛教、各种民间信仰和邪教广泛存在。今天这些信仰在中国正在经历一场巨大的复兴。但是，中国没有像西方的一神论中所给出的所有包容性的道德理念体系，这些理念是通过宗教或神学所得到的。中国人从儒家思想中得到了这些，但孔子并不关心神祇或来世。
He was concerned about how human beings live life in society. A proof, if proof we needed, that you don't have to have a theological system with a supreme god to have a moral order in society. Recently, Tom Holland has written a brilliant book called Dominion, arguing that we in the West, all of us Europeans, Westerners still think like Christians. Well, the Chinese still think like Confucians. And doful in poetry. Best expresses that.
他关心人类在社会中的生活方式。这表明，为了在社会中建立道德秩序，并不必须拥有一个拥有至高神的神学体系。最近，汤姆·霍兰德（Tom Holland）写了一本精彩的书《主宰》，认为我们在西方，即所有欧洲人、西方人，仍然像基督徒一样思考。而中国人仍然像儒家一样思考，并且在诗歌中表达最真实的自我。
Okay, that's my first voice.
好的，这是我的第一个声音。
这句话表达的是说话人第一次发出声音的经历或感想。
My second voice I had to put in a historian, of course. And anyway, history is no less important in Chinese culture than poetry. A continuous tradition of narrative goes back over 2,500 years. Greatest at first, great text, a thousand BC. History had a unique status in China because it formed the official narrative, if you like. You got Mavericks like you do in the West, like Carodotus and Thucydides. But in the main, the aim was to underwrite the state.
当然，我必须在历史学家身上添加我的第二个声音。无论如何，历史在中国文化中的重要性不亚于诗歌。超过2500年的不间断的叙述传统可以追溯到公元前1000年最初也是最伟大的文本。历史在中国具有独特的地位，因为它形成了官方叙述。在西方也有像卡罗多图斯和修昔底德这样的独立思考者，但总的来说，目的是为国家提供支持。
But it must tell the truth. It must express moral judgments on good and bad rule. And that was the reason why the tyrannical first emperor, Shinjia Huangdi, the emperor of the Tarakotor army, ordered the historians to be buried alive and the history books to be burned, hearing the power of the past to discredit the present. The anxiety of tyrants of all ages, I guess.
但是历史必须告诉真相，必须对好的和坏的统治表达道德判断。这就是为什么暴虐的第一位皇帝秦始皇命令将历史学家活埋和历史书籍焚烧，以掩盖过去的力量，使现在的统治不受质疑。我想，这是所有暴君的焦虑。
So my historian, that in a hand in a steer, around 100 BC, the time of the Roman Republic, century or so after the book burning, some of the killings of the historians. His name was Sir Martien. And his father was what we would call a historian, I guess, the keeper of the imperial calendar. And his father had planned a narrative of the lost history of China, the history before the book burnings. But he never finished it. And on his death bird, he made his son swear that he would complete it.
我的历史学家，手握方向盘，大约在公元前100年，古罗马共和国时期，书籍焚烧之后的一个世纪左右，一些历史学家被杀害了。他的名字叫做西尔·马蒂恩。他的父亲是我们所说的历史学家，也就是帝国历书的保管者。他的父亲曾经计划写一部有关中国失落历史的叙述，也就是书籍焚烧之前的历史。但是他从未完成过。在他逝世之前，他让他的儿子发誓一定要完成它。
But then, Soma fell foul of the emperor, Moudi. He spoke up for a man who he believed had been wrongly condemned, and the furious emperor condemned him. He was expected then to commit suicide, because the only way out was to accept horrendous humiliation of castration in the humid warmth of the silkworm chamber. Any gentleman would have killed himself, of course. But Sir Martien had sworn to his father that he would complete the great work of history, and he accepted the grim punishment. And he tells that story to a friend in what is perhaps the most famous letter in Chinese literature.
然而，苏轼与皇帝茅盾不合。他为一名他认为被错误地定罪的人说话，愤怒的皇帝将他定罪。他被期望自杀，因为唯一的出路是在盛夏时节的蚕房里接受可怕的阉割屈辱。当然，任何绅士都会自杀。但马圣儒先生曾向他的父亲发誓要完成伟大的历史工作，因此他接受了这个可怕的惩罚。他把这个故事告诉了一个朋友，在中国文学中也许是最为著名的一封信中。
Let me read you a little bit. You get his voice immediately. I've given myself up to my useless writings. I've gathered and brought together the old traditions of the world which were scattered and lost. I've examined the deeds and the events of the past and investigated the principles behind their success and failure, their rise and decline. But before I'd finished my rough draft, I met with this calamity. And it's because I hadn't finished it that I submitted to the extreme penalty without ranker. But when I've finished it, if it can be handed down so that people may read it and appreciate it in towns and in villages, then even though I should suffer a thousand mutilations, what regret should I have?
让我读一点给你听，你会立刻听到他的声音。我沉迷于毫无意义的写作中。我收集和整理了世界上散落和失落的传统。我研究了过去的事迹和事件，并调查了它们成功和失败的原则，它们的兴衰。但是，在我完成草稿之前，我遇到了这场灾难。正是因为我没有完成它，我才不带怨恨地接受了极刑。但如果我完成了它，如果它可以被传承下去，让人们在城镇和乡村里阅读和欣赏，那么即使我遭受了千百次的残害，我也不会有什么遗憾。
A man has only one death. But death may be as weighty as Mount Tai or as light as a feather. It all depends on the way he uses it. And I don't expect all your historians are there to give that much for your art, but amazing isn't it? So a century after the first emperor's book, Bernings, killing of the historians, Somasien reconstructed the centuries of pre-Chin history. It's one of the great intellectual end overs of Chinese culture, a foundation of all chronological inquiries into Chinese pre-history.
一个人只有一次死亡，但死亡的分量有时像泰山一样沉重，有时如鸿毛般轻盈。这取决于他如何应对。我并不指望所有历史学家都能对此付出太多关注，但不可否认，这真是令人惊叹的事情。于是，在第一位皇帝出版书百年后，索马西恩重构了先秦时代的数个世纪历史，这是中国文化最伟大的智力努力之一，也是所有中国史前考古调查的基础。
And the amazing archaeological discoveries the 20th century started almost exactly a century ago in Anyang have proved him even the order of the prehistoric kings was accurate. And before we leave him, I can't resist reading a little bit of his fantastic passage about the the tyrannical first emperor himself. It's about the famous two guarded by the terracotta warriors. When the first emperor ascended the throne, the digging and the preparation began. 700,000 men were sent there from all over the empire. They dug down deep to underground springs, pouring copper to place the outer casing of the coffin.
20世纪初期的惊人考古发现，几乎在一百年前的安阳开始，证明了历史上古王朝的确有序。在我们离开他之前，我忍不住想朗读一下他关于首位暴君的奇幻故事。故事讲述了陶俑守护的两个名人。当这位皇帝登基之后，挖掘和准备工作开始了。从全国各地派遣了70万人前去。他们深入地下涌泉，铸造青铜，用于放置棺材的外壳。
Workmen were instructed to make automatic crossbows, primed, shooted intruders. Mercury was used to simulate the hundred rivers, the Yangtze and the Yellow River and the Great Sea and set to flow mechanically. Above the heavens were depicted below the geographical features of the land. Canceles were made of mermaids fat, which is calculated to burn and not extinguish for a long time. At the second emperor his son said, it is inappropriate for the wives of the late emperor who have no sons to be set free. And he ordered that they should accompany his dead father and a great many of them died. And after the burial it was suggested it would be a serious breach if the craftsman who constructed the tomb and knew of the treasures inside it were to divulge those secrets.
工人们得到指示制作可以自动射箭、具备防卫功能的十字弓。水银被用来模拟百条江河、长江、黄河和大海，水流可以机械化。在上方的天空中，描绘着地理特征。低栏使用美人鱼的脂肪制作，能够长时间燃烧而不熄灭。在第二个皇帝的时候，他的儿子说，对于那些没有儿子的皇帝妻子被释放是不合适的。他下令让她们陪同他的死去的父亲，其中许多人死去了。在葬礼之后，得到建造陵墓和知道内部财宝的工匠不泄露那些秘密将是一项严重的违反。
And so after the funeral ceremonies the inner passages and doorways were blocked and the exits sealed, trapping the workers and the craftsman inside. No one could escape. And entries and vegetation were planted on the tomb mound. So he resembled a natural hill. Great, I hope you agree. It's just literally fantastic, isn't it? And of course the tomb is still there guarded by the Tarracotta army, the inner tomb itself, still unopened, awaits investigation, great et al. archaeological mystery in the world.
因此，在葬礼仪式结束后，内部通道和门口被封锁，出口被封闭，将工人和工匠困在里面。没有人能够逃脱。而且入口和植被被种植在墓冢上，使其看起来像一座自然山丘。很棒，希望你同意。这真是太神奇了，不是吗？当然，陵墓仍然由兵马俑把守，内部陵墓本身仍然没有开启，等待着考古学家们的发掘，这是世界上一项极其伟大的考古之谜。
That's my historian. My third voice, I've chosen a woman's voice and an autobiography. Chinese literature from the very earliest times is self-reflexive in the way that few other cultures are. There's no time in the last 2500 years when Chinese men and women don't produce literature which reveals their inner heart. If I can put it that way.
那是我的历史学家。作为我第三个声音，我选择了一位女性自传的声音。中国文学从最早的时期起就表现出了一种自我反思的特点，这在其他文化中很少见。在过去2500年中，中国男女几乎没有不创作揭示自己内心的文学作品。如果我这么说没问题的话。
And my writer now there's a poet, Leeching Jial, who lived from 1084 to 1155. I've loved her since I was a student. When I got hold of a book by a friend and mentor of the San Francisco beat poets Kenneth Rex Roth, published her first in an anthology called The Orchid Boat. You can still get it. And then a selection of her poetry in a second volume. Is hers the first autobiographical writing by a woman in world literature? I don't know the answer to that, but maybe somebody out there does.
我的作家，现在有一位诗人叫李清照，她生于1084年，卒于1155年。自从我还在读书时，我就非常喜欢她。我从一位旧金山节拍诗人的朋友和导师肯尼斯·瑞克斯·罗思那里得到了一本书，里面首次收录了她的作品，名为《蘭亭集序》。你现在还能买到这本书。之后又出版了第二卷选集，收录了她更多的诗歌作品。她的作品是世界文学中女性的第一篇自传文学作品吗？我不知道答案，但也许有人知道。
Leeching Jial lived in a fantastically sophisticated culture, the song dynasty. Maybe the most advanced society that had so far existed on earth. With the invention of printing, there was a vast expansion of publishing. Encyclopedias, science, botany, astronomy, cookbooks, even foody manuals and health and lifestyle books. There's a book published in 1085 called How Old People Can Live Happy Healthy Lives in Old Age with tips on diet, exercise and psychology. And another dated edition of it is still in print, at least the one that I bought in Kampong 2013 printing. So great, isn't it? Anyway, that's her Leeching Jial's world. And as a writer, a female writer, she worked in a tradition which had encouraged women, always to write poetry and express their inner feelings. Although there were men who thought that was one thing, but they should keep it to themselves and not appear in print, but that wasn't her view.
李清照生活在一个极其复杂的文化中，宋朝。也许是迄今为止地球上最先进的社会。随着印刷术的发明，出版业得到了广泛的扩展。百科全书、科学、植物学、天文学、烹饪书甚至是美食手册和健康生活书籍。1085年出版了一本名为《老人如何过幸福健康的晚年》的书，介绍了老年人的饮食、锻炼和心理。至少这本书的某个版本在2013年的Kampong印刷品还在发行中。是不是太棒了？总之，这就是李清照的世界。作为一名女性作家，她工作在一种传统中，这种传统鼓励女性始终写诗表达内心感受。虽然有些男人认为这是一件事情，但他们应该把它保留在内心，而不是出版，但这并不是她的看法。
She's a scintillating mind and brilliantly self-reflexive. Talks a lot about her own insight and her own experience. Talks about her addiction to board games. I can lose myself in board games, play all night long without thought or sleep. Plus a wine or two, one gathers. All my life I played such games. And whoever I play against, I usually win.
她是一个聪慧的人，能够发人深省地思考自己。她经常谈论自己的洞察力和自己的经验，还谈论她对桌游的痴迷。我可以沉浸在桌游中，一整晚都可以忘记睡眠和思考。当然，也会喝上一两杯美酒。我一生都在玩这样的游戏，不管和谁玩，我通常会赢得比赛。
In her autobiography, Leeching Jial interrogates a disillusionment with her own first marriage, which began as a love marriage, but then dwindled because she didn't produce a sun for her husband. And then after her husband's death during the wars of the 1120s, she bitterly describes her abusive second marriage with the self-awareness of a woman of extraordinary intelligence and sensitivity. She took her second husband to court to get a divorce, which caused a huge scandal in the patriarchal world of the song, as you can tell. She also wrote political poetry. Is she the first great or even the first female political poet in world literature? I don't know.
在她的自传中，李清照审视了她对自己的第一次婚姻的幻灭感，这段婚姻起初是一场爱情婚姻，但随着她无法为丈夫生下孩子而慢慢消失。在她的丈夫在1120年代的战争中去世后，她苦涩地描述了她的虐待性第二次婚姻，并表现出非凡的智慧和敏感度。她起诉了第二个丈夫要求离婚，导致了宋朝父权社会的巨大丑闻。她还写了政治诗歌。她是世界文学中第一位伟大的甚至是第一位女性政治诗人吗？我不知道。
She lived through the tragic fall of the northern song, the fall of Kaifong, and betrayed China betrayed as she saw it by the complacent government of men. Here she is then talking to the men translated by the great Kenneth Rexoth. You should have been more cautious, better educated by the past. The ancient bamboo books of history were there for you to study, but you didn't see times change, power passes. It is the pity of the world, at the hearts of the vicious, where deep chasm of evil. Wow, one can only say wow to Leeching Jial, what a person. There is a wonderful biography that came out recently in English by Ronald Egan called the burden of female talent if you want to follow more on this brilliant, brilliant person.
她经历了北宋的悲惨之际，开封的沦陷，并看到自己心目中的中国被满足的政府背叛。在这里，她用翻译家Kenneth Rexoth的大作交谈着。你们本应该更加谨慎，更好地从历史中受教育。古代的竹简历史就摆在那里供你们学习，但你们没有看到时代的变化，权力的更替。这是全世界的遗憾，在恶毒之心的深渊。哇，对于李清照，人们只能说哇，她是多么了不起的人物。如果想了解更多这位伟大的人物，请阅读Ronald Egan最近出版的英文传记《女性才华的负担》。
Of course, her critique of government isn't rare in Chinese history. We have this view of the monolithic autocracy, but there is a constant dialogue at times, and at times criticism of the nature of rulership, although that attacks on the system itself don't really start until the 17th century.
当然，她对政府的批评在中国历史上并不罕见。我们对中央集权的观念是单一的，但是有时会有不断的对话和对统治性质的批评，虽然对体制本身的攻击直到17世纪才真正开始。
This brings me to my fourth voice, the Emperor. Emperor. Emperor. Emperor has of course been very important figures in Chinese history, and more than that, the very figure of the Emperor, the sage, all seeing why is Runa. At least that's the ideal. The one who holds the mandate of heaven has run right to Chinese history. You can see even in the cult of Mao Zedong, the communist leader of China after 1949, that mythological figure of the great all seeing all wise rulers still working itself out. The voice I've chosen for the Emperor is the great Qing dynasty emperor Kangxi.
这让我想到了我要谈的第四个角色，皇帝。皇帝在中国历史上自然扮演着非常重要的角色，更重要的是，皇帝这个形象，就像是一个智慧、洞察万物的圣贤。至少在理念上是这样的。天命所归的皇帝一直深深地扎根于中国历史。即便是在1949年之后的中国，毛泽东的崇拜者们也在继续这一古老传统，崇拜着一个能看透一切，卓尔不群的领袖。而我选择的皇帝角色，是清朝伟大的皇帝康熙。
We live from 1654 to 1722. He's the longest ruling emperor, 61 years, and for me his autobiographical writings are well among the greatest of all ruler autobiographies, along with perhaps Babbo, the founder of the the mogul dynasty in India. Kangxi is famous 16 maxims about how to be a good citizen about civility and benevolence, loyalty, kindness to your neighbours, pay your taxes on time, of course, were read out in every village in China right up to the beginning of the 20th century.
我们的生命从1654年到1722年。他是历史上最长统治的皇帝，统治了61年，而他的自传写作与印度莫卧儿王朝的创始人巴布，一起是所有皇家自传中最伟大的之一。康熙以他关于如何成为好公民的16条名言闻名于世，包括文明礼貌与仁慈、忠诚、善待你的邻居、按时交税等，这些内容一直到20世纪初在中国的每个村庄都会朗读。
Amazing. It's very realistic about the nature of rule, of course. They were tough people, people like Kangxi, giving life to people and killing people. These are the powers and Emperor Hayao, he says. But here's his voice in a late night reflection in old age on the nature of rulership. Before I die, I'm letting you know my sincerest feelings. This is particularly addressed to his sons as well as the councilors, my sincerest feelings. The rulers of the past all took reverence for heaven's laws and reverence for the ancestors as the fundamental principles in ruling the country.
太妙了。它非常真实地描述了统治的本质。他们是坚强的人，像康熙一样，可以赐予生命和夺取生命。这些就是皇权和韩亚奥皇帝所说的权力。然而，在晚年的反思中，皇帝开始思考统治的本质。在我死之前，我要让你们知道我的最真诚的感受，这特别针对他的儿子和参议员，我的最真诚的感受。过去的统治者都以尊重天地法则和尊重先祖为治理国家的根本原则。
To be sincere in reverence for heavens and for the ancestors entails the following. Be kind to men from afar, keep the able ones near to, nourish the people, think of the profit of all as being the real profit and the mind of the whole country as being the real mind. Be considerate to the officials and act as a father to the people. Protect the state before danger appears. Goven well before there is any disturbance. All must be diligent, all must be careful, and maintain the balance between principle and expedience so that long-range plans can be made for the country. That's all there is to it. We can do with some of that wisdom at the moment, don't you think?
真诚地尊崇天地和祖先包括以下内容：远离恶人，亲近能者，培养人才，考虑全局利益，以国家利益为先。对官员要体恤，对人民要像父亲一样。在危险来临前保护国家，在骚乱发生前善于治理。每个人都需要勤奋谨慎，保持原则与灵活性的平衡，这样才能为国家制定长期计划。这就是全部内容。现在我们需要一些智慧，你不觉得吗？
Govening well before you're unentertrouble. It's a good lesson even for today's politicians. I hope you can see that these vivid portraits of real men and women in Chinese history, and there's lots and lots more in the book, give you a wonderful sense of how it lives and the reflections of the people themselves on their lives. Even the soldiers of the terracotta army sending, writing home to mum, give you a sense of how the history interweaves the lives of the people.
在陷入麻烦之前善治国是一个好教训，即使是现今的政治家也能从中受益。我希望你能看到这些生动的历史人物形象，他们都是中国历史上真实的男女，并且这本书中还有很多类似的人物。这些人物让你感受到历史在人们生活中的融合，也让你看到人们本身对于自己生活的反思。就连兵马俑的士兵们也能通过写信给妈妈，让你看到历史与人民生活的交织。
Last example I've chosen, we come to the revolutionary epoch of the late 19th century, which launched the Great Chinese Revolution of the 20th. It's a long, a revolution in long gestation. John Fairbank's great-synologist in America wrote a book called The Great Chinese Revolution 1800 to 1950. That's the way historians sometimes see these things, isn't it, a long development, and once tempted to say the dust has not yet settled on the revolution of 1949.
我选择的最后一个例子是19世纪末革命时期，这引发了20世纪的伟大中华革命。它是一个漫长的革命，有着漫长的酝酿期。美国著名汉学家约翰·费尔班克写了一本名为《大中华革命1800-1950》的书。历史学家们有时候会这样看待事情，认为这是一个长期发展的过程，有人甚至会说1949年革命的尘埃还没有落定。
Before I introduce this last voice, another woman's voice, say this, politics are the very heart of Chinese civilization. That sounds really obvious, doesn't it? But I'm sometimes tempted to say that where the bent of Indian civilization, Indian literature is spiritual and metaphysical. China's is political. Even the great archaic myths, the yellow emperor, King Yu. Unlike say the Greek myths are political.
在介绍这个最后一个声音之前，我想提一下另一个女性的声音。她说政治是中华文明的核心。这听起来非常明显，对吧？但有时候我会觉得印度文明和印度文学的倾向是精神和形而上学的，而中国的倾向则是政治的。就连伟大而古老的神话故事，黄帝和大禹王，也不像希腊神话那样偏重政治。
The state is not only a historical fact, but an imaginal construct that has permeated people's lives, minds, and dreams for millennia. China, as we all know, is the oldest continuous state. We imagine it's had an immemorial stability, at least until the 20th century, dynasty unrolling after dynasty in our other sedate way. But in the past, in fact, China had huge ruchus, huge cataclysmic periods of breakdown. When it was by no means certain that China would be united again, it could have ended up by Europe today with 20 different countries.
国家不仅是历史事实，而且是一个构想性的结构，已经在人们的生活、思想和梦想中渗透了几千年。众所周知，中国是最古老的连续国家。我们想象它有着悠久的稳定，至少直到20世纪，朝代一个接一个地展开，平稳地过渡。但实际上，在过去，中国曾经历了巨大的动荡，巨大的灾难性瓦解时期。当并不确信中国会再次统一时，它本可以像今天的欧洲一样分成20个不同的国家。
As it says in the famous novel, Romance of Three Kingdoms, it is a truth universally acknowledged that every empire that falls apart will come together again, and every empire that is united will fall apart. So the state is preeminent, better a year of tyranny than a day of anarchy. In 1979, when Deng Xiaoping went to, so the states, he moaned to Jimmy Carter, sorry, Jimmy Carter moans to Deng Xiaoping at one public event, attended by demonstrators, by US politics. Deng said to him, few things though, you should try ruling China. You later told Bush Senior that if we had one man, one vote here, the result would be chaos. We'd collapse into civil war. In China, water is everything.
正如著名小说《三国演义》所言，每个帝国崩溃后都会再次聚集，每个统一的帝国都会分裂。因此，国家至上，暴政一年总比无政府一日好。1979年，邓小平访问美国时，他向吉米·卡特抱怨说，在一次公开活动中，出席者是示威者和美国政治人物。邓告诉他，尽管有些事情，你应该试着统治中国。你后来告诉老布什，如果我们在这里实行一人一票，结果将会是混乱。我们会陷入内战。在中国，水是一切。
Since the first emperor, the pull between harsh authoritarian rule and confusion virtue and humanity has swayed back and forth in the balance, and attempts to alter that balance were already being made in the early 17th century. Great movements then for political reform. The great writer Huang Zongxi said, without the rule of law, you cannot have the rule of man. Perennial question in Chinese history. So those conflicts and trajectories came to ahead in the 19th century, but the collision with the Western ideals and ideas really brought the issues of China's political tradition into the open.
自第一位皇帝开始，严酷的威权统治和仁义道德之间的拉扯一直在平衡中来回摇摆。早在17世纪初期，就已经有了试图改变这种平衡的努力，推动政治改革的伟大运动展开。伟大的作家黄宗羲曾说过，没有法律的支持，就无法实现人的统治。这是中国历史上长期存在的问题。这些冲突和趋势在19世纪达到了顶峰，但是与西方的理念和思想的碰撞真正将中国政治传统的问题公开化。
One of the many trajectories that arose at that time, leaving aside the obvious ones, political reform and so on, was feminism. The star writers like Chuljin, 1875 to 1907, was executed in the town square of her hometown in Shaoxing. Why can't women be heroes too? She wrote, less well known, the mysterious herjun born in around 1884, who wrote her feminist manifesto at the very moment that the suffragettes were fighting in Britain. After a brief fiery career, the first war period, she disappears. What happened to her afterwards is simply not known how much of China's unfolding tragedy was the Republican era disintegrated into civil war and the Japanese invasion. And the Second World War finally communist take over.
在那个时候，出现了许多发展方向，除了政治改革等明显的方向外，还包括女性主义。像楚津这样的一代文豪，1875年至1907年，在她的家乡绍兴的市中心广场上被处决。为什么不能让女性也成为英雄呢？她写道。还有一位不太为人知的神秘人物--herjun，大约出生于1884年左右，就在英国的妇女争取选举权的同时，写下了她的女权主义宣言。在短暂的火爆职业生涯之后，她在第一次世界大战期间消失了。在中国的历史剧变中，共和时期分崩离析，陷入内战和日本侵略。二战后，共产党掌权，她后来的情况就不得而知了。
How much she saw of that, we simply don't know. Some people said she had a breakdown in the end. One story was that she renounced everything and became a Buddhist nun. I think of all the people in modern China, hers is the autobiography I would most like to read. Anyway, among her recently rediscovered works is her essay on the question of women's liberation published in 1907, which looks like one of the great tracts of feminism, another radical attempt to reimagine the world which there many through Chinese history. Here she is, herjun. For thousands of years, the world has been dominated by the rule of man.
我们根本不知道她看到了多少。有人说她最后崩溃了。有一个故事说她放弃一切成为了佛教尼姑。我认为，在现代中国的所有人中，我最想读她的自传。不管怎样，在她最近被重新发现的作品中，包括她1907年发表的有关妇女解放问题的论文，它看起来像是一篇伟大的女权主义文献，另一个重新想象世界的激进尝试。在这里，就是她，herjun。几千年来，世界一直被男性统治。
This rule is marked by class disjunctions over which men, a man only exert proprietary rights. To rectify these wrongs, we must first abolish the rule of men and introduce equality among human beings, which means that the world must belong equally to men and women. And the goal of equality cannot be achieved except through women's liberation.
这个规则标志着阶级分离，只有男性才能行使所有权。要纠正这些错误，我们必须先废除男性的统治，并在人类之间引入平等，这意味着世界必须平等属于男女。而平等的目标除了通过妇女解放实现之外，无法实现。
Fantastic isn't it? Great. She was in touch with the wider world, of course, in Japan, in Trans-Sagin Le Cominist Manifesto, in some Japanese and English, Paris. She was published in one of the French radical journals. But it's fantastic, isn't it, that are texts like that, that we read a text like that, from late imperial China. But many surprises of Chinese history, the only thing.
这不是很棒吗？太好了。当然，她和外界保持联系，曾在日本、Trans-Sagin Le Cominist Manifesto、一些日本和英语、巴黎等地。她曾在法国的一个激进杂志上发表过文章。不过，很奇妙，我们能够阅读到晚清时期中国的文本。但中国历史中还有很多惊喜，这只是其中的一件事。
So there you are. There's my five voices from feminists to grizzled old emperor poets, thinkers, historians. I've scratched the surface, if you like. But the books full of those voices, many of them I think, I hope, little known or unknown into Western readers.
这就是我的五种声音，从女权主义者到皇帝诗人，思想家和历史学家。简单地说，我只是浅尝辄止。但是这些书充满了这些声音，其中许多我认为，我希望，对西方读者而言可能很少知道或不知道。
So I hope I've wetted your appetite to read the book, but also to know more about the story of China. Books are our window on the world, aren't they? And in any view of the history of humanity, China, other side of the world, the other pole of the human mind, it's the great signologist Simon Leis called it, was bequeathed to us all, incredible riches, with which us to help us imagine the world with fresh eyes.
因此，我希望我已经引起了您对这本书的兴趣，同时也让您更加了解中国的故事。书是我们了解世界的窗口，不是吗？在人类历史的任何角度，作为世界的另一面、人类思维的另一极，中国被赋予了巨大的财富，如同著名的符号学家西蒙·莱斯所称，帮助我们以全新的眼光去看待世界。
That was Michael Wood. Michael is a regular columnist for BBC History magazine. You can read his latest column on global history writing in the March issue of BBC History magazine, which is on sale now. Michael's book, The Story of China, is also out now published by Simon and Shuster.
那是迈克尔·伍德。迈克尔是BBC历史杂志的常驻专栏作家。您可以在现在出售的BBC历史杂志3月号上阅读他关于全球历史写作的最新专栏文章。迈克尔的新书《中国故事》也已经由西蒙与舒斯特出版社出版发行。
You can find out more about our virtual lecture series, including upcoming lectures in which you can put your own questions to the experts at historyextra.com forward slash events. Thanks for listening. This podcast was produced by Ben Eurit and Jack Bateman. Tomorrow we'll be back with an episode on everything you want to know about the Cold War.
您可以在historyextra.com/events中了解更多有关我们虚拟讲座系列的信息，包括即将举行的讲座，您可以向专家提出自己的问题。感谢您的收听。本播客由本·尤里特和杰克·贝特曼制作。明天我们将回归一个关于冷战的您想知道的一切的剧集。