The Apple Genius: Tim Cook | Author Tripp Mickle Talks Apple After Steve | 5
发布时间 2023-03-16 07:01:00 来源
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It's the fall of 2014 in Tim Cook's office at Apple headquarters in Cupertino, California. Tim sits at his desk hard at work when there's a knock at the door. He looks up to see Josh Taryngell, the 42-year-old editor of Bloomberg Business Week magazine, standing in the doorway. Tim rises from his desk to greet him.
现在是2014年秋天，在加利福尼亚库比蒂诺的苹果总部，蒂姆库克坐在他的办公桌前加班，突然听到敲门声。他抬头看到乔希·塔林鲁（Josh Taryngell），42岁，是《彭博商业周刊》的编辑，站在门口。蒂姆站起来迎接他。
Hey, Josh. Tim, how are you? I'm well. Thanks for coming all this way. Of course. You going to tell me what this is all about? Well, have a seat. Since becoming Apple's CEO, Tim has done two extended interviews with Josh. Tim likes and trusts him, and that's why he asked Josh to fly in from New York for this private meeting. Tim is about to make a huge announcement about a personal matter, and he needs Josh's help. Yeah, okay. This is all a little mysterious, isn't it, Tim? I know. I know. And I will explain.
嘿，乔希。蒂姆，你好吗？我很好，谢谢你远道而来。当然。你会告诉我这是关于什么吗？坐下来吧。自从担任苹果公司CEO以来，蒂姆已经与乔希进行了两次深入采访。蒂姆喜欢并信任他，这就是为什么他要求乔希从纽约飞来参加这次私人会议。蒂姆即将宣布一项关于个人事务的重大消息，他需要乔希的帮助。好的，可以。这一切都有点神秘，对吧，蒂姆？我知道。我知道。我会解释的。
Deep in thought, Tim rocks back and forth in his chair for a moment, and then begins. There is something that's been…knowing at me for a while. I was hoping you can help me with it. I'll try, I guess that depends on what it is.
蒂姆陷入沉思中，他在椅子上前后晃动了一会儿，然后开始说话。有一件事情一直在困扰着我，我希望你能帮助我解决。我会尽力而为，不过这取决于问题的具体内容。
Well, Tim continues rocking back and forth some more until his eyes land on a framed photograph of Martin Luther King on the wall. Seeing it, Tim stops rocking. That photo over there of Dr. King, I walk past it every day. Most of the time I find it to be an inspiration, but recently I feel it's been more of a challenge. How so, Tim? There's a quotation of Dr. King's that I've always liked. Life's most persistent and urgent question is what are you doing for others? I've been thinking about that a lot.
蒂姆继续前后摇晃，直到他的目光落在墙上马丁·路德·金的照片上。看到它，蒂姆停止了摇晃。那张马丁·路德·金博士的照片，在那儿，我每天都要经过它。大多数时候，我发现它是一个启示，但最近我感到更多的是挑战。蒂姆，这是怎么回事？有一句金博士的引言我一直很喜欢，“生命中最持久和紧迫的问题是你为他人做了什么？”我已经考虑了很多。
Tim stops for a moment, and stares at the floor, suddenly nervous again. Seeing this, Josh asks, delicately. Tim, are you all right? Is there something wrong? No, I'm a private person, Josh, as you know. But I recognize that, as Apple CEO, I'm a public figure as well, and there are responsibilities I believe come with that position. The time has come for me to step forward and tell the world that I'm gay.
蒂姆停了一会儿，盯着地面，突然又感到紧张了。看到这一幕，乔希小心地问：“蒂姆，你还好吗？有什么问题吗？”“不，你知道我是一个很私人的人，乔希。但是我认识到，作为苹果公司的CEO，我也是一个公众人物，承担着一定的责任。现在是时候站出来，告诉全世界我是同性恋了。”
Okay? Josh is surprised. This is not what he was expecting from the meeting. A lot of my colleagues here at Apple already know I'm lucky to work in a business and for a company that's so supportive. But that's not the case for everywhere. I've reached a point where I think it'd be selfish of me to keep this to my small circle. If talking about this publicly could help push the conversation, create more acceptance outside of Apple. Then it's my duty to speak up.
乔希感到惊讶。这不是他原本期待会议会带来的结果。我的同事们在苹果已经知道我很幸运可以在这样一家给予支持的公司中工作，但这并不是普遍情况。我认为，我已经达到了一个阶段，在这个阶段上，如果我只把这件事告诉我的小圈子，那就显得有些自私了。如果公开谈论这个话题可以帮助推动谈话，并在苹果以外的地方创造更多接受，那么这就是我的责任，我应该大声说出来。
But Tim, I think that's great. What can I do to help? I've been talking with Anderson Cooper. I had lunch with him actually when I was in New York. CNN anchor Anderson Cooper publicly came out in 2012 in a letter in which he spoke of his pride and happiness as a gay man. I really liked how he did it, how he wrote that letter. It was classy, you know, understated. I found it inspiring. He was proud of who he was and so my.
但我觉得这很好啊，Tim。我能做什么来帮忙呢？我和安德森·库珀聊过天。实际上我在纽约时和他一起吃过午餐。CNN主播安德森·库珀在2012年公开出柜，发表一封信，表达他作为一名同性恋者的骄傲和幸福。我非常喜欢他的做法，他写信的方式很优雅，很低调。我觉得这很鼓舞人心。他为自己的身份感到骄傲，我也同样感到自豪。
But Tim opens his desk drawer, pulls out a folder and removes a piece of paper. So I've written something, a short assay of sorts, a wondered whether your magazine would like to run it. He slides the paper over to Josh. Would you like me to read it now? Oh, yeah, please. And if you have any thoughts as a writer, I'd love to hear them, you know.
蒂姆打开他的抽屉，拿出一个文件夹，并取出一张纸。所以我写了点什么，一篇短小的论文，想知道你们的杂志是否愿意发表它。他把纸片推给了乔希。你想我现在读给你听吗？哦，好的，请。如果你作为一个作家有任何想法，我很想听听你的意见，你知道的。
Tim watches silently as Josh reads the essay. When he's finished, the journalist hands the paper back. Yeah, we'll hold a page for you. I think it's all right. I think you put it beautifully, Tim. I'd hardly change a word. Well, I don't want it to be on the cover. I don't want it heavily trailed in the newspapers, anything like that. No, I understand. I just want people to see that it's me, that this is who I am, and I couldn't be prouder.
蒂姆默默地看着乔希阅读那篇文章。当乔希读完后，这位记者将纸递回。"没问题，我们会给你留一版。我认为很好。你写得很好，蒂姆。我几乎不会改一个字。" "嗯，我不想让它成为封面文章。我也不想它在报纸上被大肆宣传，这些东西。" "不，我理解。我只想让人们知道这是我，这就是我，我感到非常自豪。"
When Tim Cook's assay was published in late October 2014, he became the most high profile business leader ever to come out as gay. Tim's thoughtful words, one wise red praise. As one commentator put it, if you're a 14-year-old kid, you find the CEO of one of the most iconic companies in the world happens to be gay. You think there's no limit on what I can do. After Steve Jobs passed, as Tim continued to reshape Apple in his own image, he would learn that in both his private and professional life, the best way to lead was to be true to himself.
当蒂姆·库克于2014年10月末公开发表他的演说后，他成为了最高调的企业领袖，宣布自己是同性恋。蒂姆思考周到的话语让人称赞。如一位评论员所说，如果你是一位14岁的孩子，你会发现全球最具象征性的公司之一的首席执行官也是同性恋。你会认为自己的未来不受限制。在史蒂夫·乔布斯去世后，蒂姆继续以自己的形象塑造苹果，他会发现在私人和职业生活中，最好的领导方式就是做真实的自己。
In a four-part series, The Generation Y Podcast unravels the story of Khalif Browder, a young boy falsely accused of stealing a backpack and held it Rikers Island for three years without trial. This is a story about a young life caught in the middle of the justice system. Listen to Generation Y on Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
在一部四部曲的节目中，Generation Y播客揭示了 Khalif Browder 的故事，这是一个年轻男孩被错误指控偷了一个背包，在里克斯岛被拘留了三年而未经审判的故事。这是一个关于一个生命被卷入司法体系的故事。请在Amazon Music或您获取播客的任何地方收听Generation Y。
From Wondery, I'm Lindsay Graham, and this is Business Members.
我是林赛·格雷厄姆（Lindsay Graham），来自Wondery的节目《商业会员》。
There is no denying the impact Tim Cook had on Apple. As Chief Operating Officer under Steve Jobs, Tim developed a reputation for pushing profitability by crafting complex but efficient global supply chains. After Steve's death, as CEO, Tim helped usher in a new era of services at Apple, company once known almost exclusively for its innovation in products. And though Tim's critics often point out that he is no Steve Jobs, there is no doubt that Tim's unique brand of leadership maintains stability at Apple. During his tenure, Apple may have had fewer product breakthroughs, but profits quadruple as Apple rose to become a trillion dollar company.
毫无疑问，蒂姆·库克对苹果公司产生了深远的影响。作为史蒂夫·乔布斯的首席运营官，蒂姆以制作复杂而高效的全球供应链来推动公司盈利，赢得了声誉。在史蒂夫逝世后，作为CEO，蒂姆帮助苹果开创了服务领域的新时代，使之前几乎只以产品创新为主的公司得到了更全面的发展。尽管蒂姆的批评者经常指出他不是史蒂夫·乔布斯，但毫无疑问，蒂姆独特的领导风格在苹果公司保持了稳定。在他的任期内，苹果公司可能没有推出更多的产品突破，但是利润翻了四倍，使得苹果公司成为了一个万亿美元的公司。
Here to talk about Tim Cook's successes and failures and what the future has in store for Apple is New York Times Technology Reporter and author TripMichael. Here's our conversation.
我们在这里与《纽约时报》科技记者兼作者Trip Michael交谈，讨论提姆·库克的成功和失败以及未来对苹果公司的影响。以下是我们的谈话内容。
TripMichael, welcome to Business Movers. Thanks so much for having me. Your book is titled After Steve, How Apple Became a Trillion Dollar Company and Lost Its Soul. Apple is a still revered company and this is a fairly provocative title. What made you want to write this book with that title?
TripMichael，欢迎来到商业搬运工。非常感谢您的到来。您的书名为《史蒂夫离去后，苹果如何成为一家价值一万亿美元的公司，却失去了灵魂》。苹果公司仍然备受推崇，这是一个相当引人注目的标题。是什么促使您要以这个标题写这本书呢？
Just by way of personal background, I arrived in San Francisco by way of their Atlanta where I was covering alcohol and tobacco in late 2016 to cover Apple for the Wall Street Journal. And one of the first meetings that I had or an early meeting that I had was a coffee with a local journalist named John Markoff, who's covered technology for a long time. Then as we talked about Apple and where I should focus my time and attention suggested that I spend some time investigating Johnny Hive and learning about a place called the Battery, which is a private club here in San Francisco. He didn't offer up much more than that, but it was just friptic enough to give me a breadcrum and something to explore.
简单介绍一下我的个人背景：2016年底，我在亚特兰大报道酒精和烟草，后来来到旧金山为《华尔街日报》报道苹果。我最初与当地新闻记者约翰·马可夫见面，他长期关注科技领域。我们谈到苹果和我应该专注的方向时，他建议我花些时间调查约翰尼·海夫（Johnny Hive）和一个名为“电池（The Battery）”的私人会所，但并没有提供更多信息，但这足以给我灵感和探究的方向。
And as I asked people about those two topics, I came to learn that Johnny Hive had distance himself from the company, which I thought was unusual and it made me wonder why did that happen. And that was really the driving question that led me to embark on this book project.
当我询问人们关于这两个话题时，我了解到约翰尼·海夫已经与公司保持距离，我认为这很不寻常，让我想知道为什么会发生这样的事情。这实际上是驱使我着手进行这本书项目的驱动性问题。
So tell me a little bit about Johnny Hive and the Battery and what further prompted you to dive into Apple in this particular direction?
请告诉我一些关于Johnny Hive和电池方面的情况，以及是什么进一步促使您朝着这个特定的方向深入探讨苹果？
Well, you know, became clear as I asked people about Johnny that after the release of the Apple Watch, he really stepped back from his day to day responsibility, said the company. It was unclear why that was the case, but the more people I talked to, the more I came to understand that it had to do with the way the company had changed as it became bigger, both in terms of the number of customers that it was serving and in terms of the number of workers that it had. And in the course of that to keep up with those demands, the way it had changed, it had become more operational. And that was a direct reflection of the leadership of Tim Cook, who came from the operational side of the company.
通过问别人关于约翰尼的情况，我发现，自从发布Apple Watch以来，他的日常责任逐渐减少，公司表示。不清楚为什么会这样，但是我问的人越多，我越明白这与公司变得更大有关，包括服务客户数量和工人数量的增加。为了跟上这些需求，公司的运营方式也发生了变化，变得更加操作化。这直接反映了蒂姆·库克的领导能力，他来自公司的运营方面。
When you think about Apple, there's a polarity to the company. There's always been a kind of strong operational backbone. But then the head of the company was this kind of creative force and creative ingenuity that drove it forward. Johnny really represented the creative force after Steve Jobs' death. And Tim was the operational backbone during Steve Jobs' tenure and then after Steve Jobs' death. I think many people would recognize this polarity in almost any growing company. The needs of a bigger company or a broader company are different than the small startup it that once was, not that really Apple at this point before Steve's departure was a startup anymore. So we have these two figures that kind of represent this polarity, this duality, and you focused on Johnny, I have a little bit here, but did you speak to Johnny or Tim Cook in the production of your book?
当你谈到苹果公司时，会有一种极性。这家公司一直有着强大的运营支撑，但是公司的领袖却是创造力和创新精神的驱动力。约翰尼在史蒂夫·乔布斯去世后代表了创造力的力量。蒂姆在史蒂夫乔布斯任职期间和他去世后都是运营骨干。我认为，在几乎任何一个成长中的公司中都会有这种极性。一个更大或更广泛的公司的需求不同于曾经的小型初创公司，虽然在史蒂夫离开之前苹果公司并不是一个初创公司。因此，我们有这两个代表极性、二元性的人物，你关注约翰尼，我在这里谈到了一些，但你是否在编写书稿时与约翰尼或蒂姆·库克交流过？
The first thing you have to know about Apple is it's kind of like Fight Club. You don't talk about Fight Club, you don't talk about Apple if you work there. The company has a strict code of secrecy and they instruct their employees even to not talk with their own spouses about the work they do during the day. And some spouses who both work at the company go so far as to not talk to each other about the work that they do in separate divisions. That's how severe and observant they are of this fortress of secrecy concept that they cultivate.
关于亚普尔公司，你需要知道的第一件事情，就像电影《搏击俱乐部》一样，你不谈论搏击俱乐部，你在公司工作时也不要谈论亚普尔。该公司有着严格的保密守则，他们教育员工不要向自己的配偶透露他们在白天工作的内容。甚至在公司内工作的配偶也会避免谈论彼此在不同部门的工作。这就是他们对这个保密堡垒概念的重视和遵守程度。
So Johnny and Tim were unwilling to talk to me, not surprisingly, because that's the ethos of the company, that's the code that they all abide by. All I could do was ask them repeatedly and advise them about where my reporting was taking me and what direction the book was going in and ask them repeatedly to talk to me. At the end, ultimately, neither chose to do so for the book on the record and so I was left with the process of fact checking the material that I've gathered with their representatives.
约翰尼和蒂姆并不愿意和我交谈，这并不意外，因为这是公司的理念，也是他们所有人遵守的准则。我唯一能做的就是一遍遍地请求他们，告诉他们我的报道目的和书籍方向，并一遍又一遍地请求他们和我交谈。最终，他们两个都拒绝在书中对事实进行陈述，所以我只能通过他们的代表来核实我收集到的材料。
This duality, I suppose, is also embedded in the title of your book. How Apple became a trillion dollar company, that sounds good. How it lost its soul, that sounds bad. What was the reaction to that title from the many Apple fans? Did you have any feedback?
我想，这个双重性也融入在你的书名里。《苹果如何成为万亿美元公司》，听起来很棒。《苹果如何失去他的灵魂》，听起来很糟。那么，你的很多苹果粉丝对这个标题的反应如何？你有没有得到任何反馈？
这段话表达的是，书名中的“双重性”指的是标题分别有好与坏的意思，也就是说，这本书同时探讨了苹果成功的一面和失去灵魂的一面。作者想知道苹果粉丝对这样的标题是如何反应的，并想知道他们有没有关于书的反馈。
Yeah, I mean, there was an impulse among a number of Apple enthusiasts to judge this book by the cover and to marinate on the final half of that subtitle, the lost its soul part and read past the first half of that, which is how it became a trillion dollar company. They really, at this point, are multi-chloric in dollar company. That is really what the title was supposed to be. It was supposed to be both aspects of that, it was supposed to reflect both the accomplishments and achievements of Tim Cook and the first half of it and the departure of Johnny Ive and the second half.
嗯，我的意思是，许多苹果爱好者有一种冲动，去根据书的封面来判断这本书，并沉浸在副标题的后半部分，“失去了灵魂”的部分，并忽略第一部分，“这就是它成为万亿美元公司的原因” 。现在，他们确实是一个亿万美元的公司。这实际上是标题的本意。标题应该反映蒂姆·库克的成就和成就的第一部分，以及乔尼·艾夫的离职和第二部分。
Johnny was really the ultimate manifestation of the company's creative spirit and its soul form. When he reached a point where he didn't feel like he could operate inside this operational company, he decided to leave. That's the lost its soul part. The company is still a multi-trillion dollar enterprise and Tim Cook is continuing to lead it forward. It's just taken on a new and different shape. And for readers who did crack the book and dove into it, they could see that Johnny play out in the stories of these two individuals and why they made the respective decisions they did.
Johnny是公司创意精神和灵魂形态的最终体现。当他觉得无法在这个行为公司内部运作时，决定离开。这就是失去灵魂的部分。公司仍然是一个价值数万亿美元的企业，蒂姆·库克正在继续领导它向前发展。它只是拥有了一种新的不同形态。对于那些阅读了这本书并深入其中的读者来说，他们可以看到Johnny在这两个人的故事中发挥作用，了解他们为什么做出了相应的决定。
Well, let's explore the journeys of these two men. Both played a pivotal role in Apple's success under Steve. And both when he died, felt a great lack in their lives and in their careers. How do you think Steve's death impacted Johnny and Tim in particular individually?
好的，让我们探索一下这两位男士的旅程。他们俩在史蒂夫领导下为苹果的成功做出了关键贡献。当史蒂夫去世时，他们俩在生活和职业上都感到了一种巨大的缺失。你认为史蒂夫的去世对约翰尼和蒂姆影响了吗？分别影响了他们俩的生活和职业吗？
It was crushing. It was crushing for both of them. It was crushing for so many people at Apple. Steve was the inspiration for many of them and why they went to work and why they were willing to work so hard. He helped people do what they didn't believe was possible and he developed products that really changed the world. There's no better reason to get up in the morning and go log long hours than knowing that you're going to have that big of an impact on the world around you.
这件事是毁灭性的。对他们俩来说都是如此，对苹果公司的众多员工也是如此。史蒂夫是他们许多人的灵感和动力，是他们去工作并愿意付出巨大努力的原因。他帮助人们做到他们本以为不可能的事情，开发出真正改变世界的产品。没有比知道自己能对身边的世界产生如此大的影响更好的理由让人早起并工作如此之久了。
And so when Steve died, the company had really been built around him. He was the head of the company, the body operated at his direction. And that was a huge loss. It had to find a new way to operate. It was disorienting for both Tim and Johnny and they handled it in different ways. I mean, you could see the sadness of Tim in so much as he closed Steve Jobs office, left it exactly as it was with his daughter's drawings on the whiteboard in the office as paper still strewn about. And Tim said that on occasion, his office was nearby. He would open Steve Jobs office step inside and just ponder who Steve was and what Steve meant, almost like anyone visiting a gravesite would. Johnny, on the other hand, really went into what his friends considered to be a relatively deep depression.
因此，当史蒂夫去世时，该公司真的是围绕着他建立的。他是公司的负责人，而公司的运营也是按照他的指示进行的。这是一个巨大的损失，公司必须找到一种新的运营方式。对蒂姆和约翰尼来说都很困惑，他们用不同的方式处理这个问题。你可以看到蒂姆的悲伤，因为他关闭了史蒂夫·乔布斯的办公室，将它完好地留在原地，白板上还挂着他女儿的画作，办公室里还散着纸张。蒂姆说，在某些时候，他的办公室就在附近。他会走进史蒂夫·乔布斯的办公室，想一想史蒂夫是谁，他的意义是什么，就像去探望坟墓一样。而约翰尼则陷入了他的朋友认为相对严重的抑郁状态。
He seemed to be in a funk that it was impossible to get him out of. He would spend many of his days inside the design studio where he worked, seated at a table talking with a colleague and what other onlookers thought looked like in the sessions of grief therapy. It wasn't until the company decided and Johnny pushed the idea of developing a watch that he seemed to come back out of that depression and find kind of a motivation and a drive to really honor Steve Jobs by developing a new product that we carry on apples legacy of making devices that change the world.
他似乎陷入了一种情绪低沉的状态，很难让他摆脱出来。他经常待在他工作的设计工作室里，坐在桌子旁与同事交谈，其他人看起来像是悲痛疗愈的会话。直到公司决定开发手表，约翰尼推动这个想法，他似乎才摆脱了那种沮丧情绪，找到了一种动力和动力，真正以开发新产品的方式来纪念史蒂夫·乔布斯，并延续苹果制造改变世界设备的传统。
Breast Beach is essential to a functioning democracy. Do you believe Twitter rigorously adheres to this principle? What should be done? Is a new platform needed? Is Twitter dying? I'm David Brown, host of the new Wondery podcast, Flipping the Bird, Elon vs. Twitter. Join us as we unravel the fascinating story of Elon Musk's unexpected bid to buy Twitter and all of the drama that has happened since then.
Breast Beach 是一个运转良好的民主社会所必要的。您认为 Twitter 严格遵守这个原则吗？应该采取什么措施？需要一个新平台吗？Twitter 正在死亡吗？我是 David Brown，新Wondery播客《Flipping the Bird, Elon vs. Twitter》的主持人。加入我们，一起揭开 Elon Musk 意外收购 Twitter 的迷人故事，以及此后发生的所有戏剧。
Those still employed at Twitter soon saw the company and its culture morphed into something they didn't recognize. He laid off 75% of the Twitter workhorse, reinstated exceedingly problematic and dangerous users, and even encouraged his staff to sleep in the office. Ex employees, Elon's critics and fellow CEOs were quick to denounce him as an inover his head rich guy. His Elon all talker are his unruly methods. Actually, the work of a genius. Follow Flipping the Bird, Elon vs. Twitter, on Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen early and add free by subscribing to Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app.
那些仍在 Twitter 工作的人很快就看到了公司及其文化的转变，这是他们无法认同的。他解雇了 Twitter 的 75% 工作马，重新接纳了极具问题和危险性的用户，甚至鼓励员工在办公室里睡觉。前员工、埃隆的批评者以及其他CEO迅速谴责他是一个没头脑的富家子弟。他的埃隆全是言论，他是那些无序的方法的天才。在Amazon Music或其他你去获取播客的地方，在Flipping the Bird、Elon vs.Twitter上关注。您可以订阅Wondery Plus和Apple Podcasts或Wondery应用程序，早期听和无添加。
I can imagine that this is, and I'll take your biological metaphor a little further, that if Apple was a body commanded by the mind of Steve, and he was himself an iconic duality, a creative genius and an erasible figure too, and then all of a sudden he is gone and replaced by two individual men who embody maybe perhaps half of Steve. In this way, Apple has been lobotomized. How do you think the company was able to survive this nearsurgical procedure and rise to a level of success at least in the first couple of years of increasing sales and a remarkable new product?
我可以想象，我会把你的生物隐喻推得更远一些——如果苹果公司就像是受到史蒂夫思维控制的身体，而他本身是一个创造天才和可磨灭的人物的二元性象征，而突然间他不在了，被两个个体取代，他们也许只代表了史蒂夫的一半。通过这种方式，苹果公司已经被脑叶切除了。您认为这家公司是如何在这种近乎手术的程序下生存下来并在至少在前几年增加销售和一个引人注目的新产品的成功水平上崛起的呢？
With your permission, I'm going to shift the metaphor ever so slightly to one that I think everyone will relate to and one that a lot of readers have brought up with me after reading the book. That is the idea that Tim Cook was really the left brain of the company, far more analytical, mathematical, and his decision making, and Johnny was the right brain creatively minded individual at the company. They were the uber representations of these two aspects of Apple, and jobs when he was live was the balancing force for those two things.
如果您允许的话，我想稍稍改变一下隐喻，把它转变成我认为每个人都能理解的形式。在读完这本书后，很多读者向我提出的一个想法是，蒂姆·库克真正代表了苹果公司的左脑，他更加注重分析、数学，做出决策时更加理性；而乔尼则代表了公司的右脑，具有创造性的思维。他们是苹果这两个方面的超级代表，而乔布斯在他还活着时，则是这两个方面相互平衡的力量。
When jobs died, what you had was this internal struggle between those two impulses inside of Apple. Ultimately, because Tim Cook rose to the top of the company, that left brain spirit and that left brain direction began to inform what the company was doing more so than the right brain had. That was really what it led the company more in the past under Steve, because that was where his impulse also lied. But it is no doubt that Apple has grown as a company enormously. Perhaps the operational aspects of Apple and Tim's predilections towards that direction are the more successful in terms of the average company's benchmarks.
当乔布斯去世后，苹果内部产生了两种冲突的冲动。最终，由于蒂姆·库克晋升到公司的高层领导，左脑思维和方向开始比右脑更多地影响着公司的决策。这是造成公司在史蒂夫·乔布斯时期更多地发挥右脑思维的原因。然而，苹果作为一家公司在经历了巨大的增长。或许，在平均公司的基准上看，苹果的运营方面以及蒂姆偏向这个方向的特点更加成功。
Why do you think then that it is important that we also mention that Apple lost its soul? I guess I'm asking why is there a duality to discuss it all? You can judge Apple on a couple of different metrics, and people have done so over the years. One scoreboard would obviously be the one that will all straight, watches, and follows, and that's how is the company performing in terms of sales and revenue and cost management, profitability, and so on and so forth. By that metric, the company has been a remarkable runway success. During Tim Cook's tenure, it has increased its market value sevenfold from around $350 billion to $2.4 trillion. That's remarkable.
你觉得为什么我们也要提到苹果失去了它的灵魂？我猜我想问为什么要从两个方面来讨论它？你可以从不同的标准来评估苹果，这些年来也许已有人这样做了。其中一种衡量标准显然是那些扭曲了的、观察过的、并且追随的标志，也就是公司在销售、收入和成本管理、赢利等方面的表现。从这个角度来看，该公司已经是一个非常成功的公司了。在蒂姆·库克任职期间，它的市值已经增长了七倍，从大约3500亿美元增长到2.4万亿美元。这是一件了不起的事情。
But inside the company, for those who work there, the reason that they went to work was that promise of being able to make products that changed the world. When you look at their suite of products over the past decade, they've introduced arguably one new product category, and that is the watch. Whereas in the prior decade, they were able to really revolutionize music with the iPod, revolutionize the phone experience with the iPhone, and really change the way people do computing by introducing a popular tablet in the iPod. Those three products just have not been able to have the same success in introducing new products over this past decade as they did in the previous one under Jobs.
在公司内部，对于那些在那里工作的人来说，他们去上班的原因是能够生产改变世界的产品的承诺。当你看看他们过去十年的产品系列，他们引入了一个可以争议的新产品类别，那就是手表。而在之前的十年中，他们能够通过iPod彻底改革音乐，通过iPhone革新手机体验，并通过iPod引入一款流行的平板电脑，真正改变了人们进行计算机操作的方式。这三款产品在过去的十年里未能在发布新产品方面像乔布斯时代那样取得同样的成功。
It sounds like to me that we're identifying three categories of challenge that Apple faced in the loss of its co-founder. One is just remaining the innovative company it was so that it can continue to innovate in the future and guarantee future success in profits. That is always going to be hard. Innovation is not free, and it's not easy, and the more you do it, the less opportunity there is for it in the future. But what I'm interested in though is that the loss of the culture of innovation, perhaps, is more important to the inner workings and employees' commitment to the company. That might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If employees at Apple feel that the company cannot innovate, that they will make sure they won't.
在我看来，似乎我们正在确定苹果公司在失去其联合创始人所面临的三类挑战。其中之一就是要保持它曾经的创新公司形象，以便在未来继续创新，保障未来盈利的成功。这总是很难的。创新不是免费的，也不是容易的，你做得越多，未来的机会就越少。但我感兴趣的是，失去创新文化，或许对内部运作和员工对公司的承诺更为重要。这可能是一个自我实现的预言。如果苹果公司的员工感到公司不能创新，他们就会确保不会这么做。
You're right, and I think that's one of the hard things about scrutinizing Apple in this era and this decade, because you literally cannot say the company has done poorly under Tim Cook. That'd be impossible. There's no doubt that Tim Cook has pulled off arguably the most successful, succession story of any CEO in modern times, if not ever. It is not easy to follow in the footstabs of somebody who has been as influential in the world and as revered as somebody like Steve Jobs. That's a huge shadow to step into, and Tim did it in large part by being himself in the process.
你说的没错，我认为在这个时代和这个十年里审视苹果公司是很困难的，因为你根本就不能说蒂姆·库克领导下的公司表现不佳。那是不可能的。毫无疑问，蒂姆·库克完成了现代历史上，甚至是有史以来，最成功的接班人故事。跟随像史蒂夫·乔布斯这样在世界上产生巨大影响并备受尊敬的人的脚步并不容易。这是一个巨大的阴影，而蒂姆大部分是通过做自己的方式来顺利迈出这一步的。
You're correct. I mean, the way Tim leads is very different from his predecessor. Steve Jobs led by God and in-state and was very deeply involved in product. Tim Cook leads through analysis and seeks out a tremendous amount of data before making a decision. For people accustomed to the way Steve Jobs' predecessors operated, they feel like sometimes the company becomes mired in analysis paralysis and it doesn't move forward decisively and quickly and swiftly. They also feel like the company does not have the singular product direction to bring a vision to what it's putting out into the world and they think that that's impaired it to some degree.
你说得对。我是说，蒂姆领导的方式和他的前任非常不同。史蒂夫·乔布斯是一位天才领袖，并非常深入地参与产品开发。蒂姆·库克通过分析来领导，并在做出决策之前寻求大量的数据支撑。对于那些习惯于史蒂夫·乔布斯前任运营方式的人来说，他们觉得有时公司会陷入分析瘫痪，无法快速而果断地推动公司向前发展。他们还认为公司没有明确的产品方向来实现愿景，这在一定程度上损害了它的发展。
That gets at this squishy cultural idea that you're talking about of the creative spirit of the company. The company's had to learn to operate in a different way where people are making decisions collectively rather than an individual like Steve Jobs making decisions decisively and finally. When you look at the scoreboard ultimately, the company has done a tremendous job of making that adjustment. In the process, people who preferred the other way have decided that maybe it's not the place for them anymore. That's been part of the transition that's occurred over the past decade.
这个话题涉及到公司创造性精神的模糊文化概念。公司不得不学会以一种不同的方式运作，人们需要集体决策，而不是像史蒂夫·乔布斯这样的个人做出决断。最终来看，公司已经非常成功地做出了这个调整。在此过程中，依赖个人决策的人们已经决定也许不再适合在这里工作。这是过去十年中发生的转变的一部分。
In our series on Tim Cook's succession, we mentioned one of Steve's directives to him to not lead the company thinking what would Steve do, but to be his own man. It seems like you agree that he is leading in a manner that is consistent with who he is. Perhaps that is one portion of why in Tim's personal life, he became the first Fortune 500 CEO to publicly come out as gay. This is a big decision for anyone, let alone a public figure like Tim Cook. Do you know anything about his decision to come out?
在我们关于蒂姆·库克接班的系列报道中，我们提到史蒂夫曾向蒂姆发出指导，告诉他不要想着怎么做才符合史蒂夫的想法，而要做自己。看起来，你也认为他正在以符合他自己的方式领导公司。也许这是蒂姆在个人生活中公开出柜成为美国财富500强公司首位同性恋CEO的原因之一。对于任何人来说，这都是一个重大的决定，尤其是像蒂姆·库克这样的公众人物。你了解他出柜的决定吗？
Yeah, and I think this is the way Tim approached this is really representative of the thoughtfulness that he's brought to bear in all aspects of what he does at Apple and how calculating and aware he can be of what he does and when. Tim had been rumored to be gay for the read of five years prior to coming out publicly. He'd never acknowledged it, but those rumors in Swirl had been in press reports and on websites such as Galker and so on so forth.
是的，我认为蒂姆处理这件事的方式真正代表了他在苹果各个方面所带来的周到考虑和他在做事和何时做事时的计算和意识。在公开出柜前的五年中，人们一直传闻蒂姆是同性恋。他从未承认过，但这些谣言在Swirl和Galker等网站以及新闻报道中多有提及。
He didn't do it immediately after becoming CEO because it deemed it immaterial to the job he was going to do. Ultimately when 2014 rolled around, Tim Cook recognized that the company was about to have a year of tremendous accomplishment and achievement. It was going to launch the Apple Watch and thereby rebut any critics who thought that they would never be able to launch another new product after Steve Jobs' death. I was going to prove them wrong and it was also going to release a plus size iPhone, a bigger iPhone that would challenge Samsung which had been making larger smartphones for a few years at that point and he thought and knew that that phone would be that there would be a voracious appetite for that phone.
他在成为CEO后并没有立刻着手做这件事情，因为他觉得这与他将要承担的工作无关。但到了2014年，Tim Cook认识到公司即将迎来一个充满成就和成功的年份。公司即将推出Apple Watch，从而反驳那些认为乔布斯逝世后，他们再也无法推出新产品的批评者。他要证明他们错了，同时还要发布一款大尺寸iPhone，这将挑战三星一直在生产的大屏智能手机，他认为市场非常需要这款手机。
In the marketplace, he was right on both accounts and in the midst of that and the wake of releasing the watch and the wake of this enormous event that carried so much weight for the company where the company introduced that larger smartphone and then did their help standard one more thing in note and introduced the Apple Watch and then finalized everything with a YouTube concert live at a theater for employees where employees literally set back and said, well, what do we do now? It feels like we've reached a pinnacle. Tim Cook decided to go public and in prior to doing so when he talked to his top executives and board members about this decision, he told them that part of the reason he did it then was it would be one thing for him to fail as Steve Jobs successor. It would be far more of a setback if he failed as Steve Jobs successor and the first publicly gay CEO of a Fortune 500 company. And that was why he timed it when he did it.
在市场上，他的两个判断都是正确的。在公司推出手表的大事件和越来越强烈的反响之间，该公司推出了更大的智能手机，并通过一场员工观看的Youtube音乐会最终确定了所有事项。员工们感到非常震撼，他们甚至在心中提出了问题，接下来该怎么做呢？看起来我们已经到达了巅峰。蒂姆·库克决定公开发表声明，之前，当他与高管和董事会成员谈及此决定时，他告诉他们他那时之所以这么做，是因为如果他作为史蒂夫·乔布斯的继任者失败，那会是一件事情。如果他作为史蒂夫·乔布斯的继任者和财富500强公司首位公开同性恋的首席执行官失败，那将是一个更大的挫折。这就是为什么他选择时机的原因。
He timed it at a time when he knew Apple was hitting its stride and going to achieve tremendous success which went on to do right afterwards. And at a time when really the political atmosphere and the receptivity publicly towards being gay and America had changed, there was far more formal welcoming attitude and this was just prior to the Supreme Court decision to make gay marriage possible in the country and everything else. So, all in all, I mean, I think it's a testament to him picking the right moment to make a key and critical decision.
他选择了一个时机，意识到苹果公司正处于巅峰时期并且即将实现巨大成功，事实证明他的判断是正确的。同时，他也抓住了美国社会的政治氛围和公开接纳同性恋的心态发生变化的时点，人们的态度更加宽容，此时正好是联邦最高法院决定允许同性婚姻在全国范围内合法化的前夕。总的来说，我认为这证明了他在关键时刻做出了正确的决定。
What was the reaction to his announcement inside the company and out? You know, it's funny. I mean, the way Tim handled it was very muted, right? Like this wasn't some grand pronouncement or like big public declaration or anything like that. He secured a page inside business week, wrote a personal assay that was very representative of his thinking on the subject. And that was it. He didn't do a lot of press around it. And inside the company, it was largely shrugs because I think everyone understood and knew that Tim was gay and outside the company, I think there was a sense of relief that Tim had come out and done this so that he could show other executives who are LGBTQ that it was okay to be themselves and talk about who they were when they were ready.
他宣布后公司内外的反应如何？你知道，挺有趣的。我的意思是，蒂姆的处理方式非常低调，对吧？这不是什么宏大的宣布或公开声明之类的事情。他在《商业周刊》上发表了一篇个人论文，非常代表了他对这个问题的看法。他没有做很多媒体宣传，公司内部大多数人都耸耸肩，因为我认为每个人都知道蒂姆是同性恋。而公司外部，则认为蒂姆宣布出柜感到非常欣慰，这样他可以向其他LGBTQ的高管表明，当他们准备好了，就可以展示自己、谈论自己。
And clearly Tim's done a tremendous job of leading the company since making that announcement. And to his earlier concern about being a failure, the risk of being a failure and the setbacks that that could create for other LGBTQ individuals who are in leadership and business, that became a non-issue because of how well Apple has done in the years since.
很明显，自从那个宣布以来，蒂姆领导公司的表现非常出色。而他之前所担心的成为失败者，可能会对其他LGBTQ领导者和商业人士造成的失败风险和挫折，这已经不再是一个问题了，因为自那时起苹果公司在这几年里做得非常好。
Well let's talk about how well Apple has done in the years since and with Tim Cook at the helm. Apple has changed as it must, as it grows and as the times change. How has Tim steered the company into a changing horizon? You know, he's provided a steadiness to the company. I mean, he's been able to steer what's become an aircraft carrier forward, which is no small feat.
那么让我们来谈谈自从蒂姆·库克掌舵以来，苹果公司做得有多好。随着公司的发展和时代的变迁，苹果公司必须做出改变。蒂姆如何将公司带向不断变化的未来？你知道，他为公司提供了稳定性。我的意思是，他能够让一个成为航空母舰的公司向前开进，这绝非易事。
In doing that, he's had to wrestle with the law of large numbers, which is this reality and theory and business that when your sales get so large, you have to find enormous growth for it to make a small difference to your top line. And so one of the things Tim did relatively early was say, you know, if we're going to go into a product, if we're going to develop a product, it needs to have the potential to be a $10 billion business. And this foreclosed a lot of opportunities for Apple. You know, there was no reason to launch some gadget that may generate, you know, a billion dollars in sales, they really needed to focus on something that had a tremendous potential.
在此过程中，他必须应对大数定律，这是现实、理论和业务上的一种规律，即当你的销售额变得非常庞大时，你必须寻找巨大的增长才能对你的收入产生很小的影响。因此，蒂姆相对较早地做出了这个决定，即如果我们要推出一种产品，如果我们要开发一种产品，它必须具备成为一个100亿美元业务的潜力。这使得苹果封闭了许多机会。你知道，没有理由推出一些可能会产生10亿美元销售额的小玩意儿，他们真的需要集中精力去研究具有巨大潜力的东西。
You saw that ultimately in the watch, which is, you know, in combination with AirPods, which were also an idea born out of the watch development process. It's ultimately become a really large multi-billion dollar wearables business. You later saw that in the development of services, which was an outgrowth of Tim Cook and his colleagues recognition that the iPhone that was in more than a billion people's pockets had become, you know, perhaps the most powerful distribution system in the world.
你注意到，最终在手表中，它与AirPods结合使用，这也是在手表开发过程中诞生的想法。它最终成为一个规模庞大的数十亿美元的可穿戴设备业务。之后你也看到了服务的发展，这是蒂姆·库克和他的同事们认识到在十多亿人的口袋里的iPhone已经成为了可能是世界上最强大的分销系统的自然延伸。
And Apple had potential to make more money selling software and services across that device. Then it did just in selling the device itself. By that point, it was going to continue to get people to upgrade to a new iPhone every two, three, four years in the interim. What it was going to be able to do was, you know, sell them subscriptions to Apple Music or Spotify or HBO Max. And in doing so, it could take a 30% cut of those sales and benefit every single month that people paid their subscription. And that became a massive business for Apple with really, really high margins. The profits on that are great because they didn't have to put a ton of work into it. They'd already sold the iPhone.
苹果有潜力通过销售设备上的软件和服务创造更多的利润，而不仅仅是销售设备本身。此时，它将继续让人们在此期间每两三四年升级到新的iPhone。它将能够做的就是向他们销售Apple Music、Spotify或HBO Max的订阅服务。这样做，它可以从这些销售中获取30%的份额，并在人们支付订阅费用的每个月获得受益。这成为了苹果的一个巨大业务，利润非常高。这些利润很棒，因为他们不需要投入大量的工作。他们已经卖出了iPhone设备。
And these are the ways that Tim managed to steer Apple forward by sort of finding a new strategy for its business and continuing to make sure that their existing product line was robust and still in demand for people.
这就是Tim通过找到一种新的业务策略和确保现有产品线强大且仍然受人们欢迎的方式来推动苹果前进的方法。
On the services in platform side, one way in which Apple has to distinguish itself is as an unlikely champion of privacy. It stands apart from the rest of the industry and kind of taking a stand against the free flow of user information to advertisers and developers. What do you know about Tim Cook's involvement in this decision, which is largely an opposition to where the rest of the industry wants to go?
苹果平台方面的服务，其中一项区分自身的方式是成为隐私的不太可能的代言人。它与其他产业不同，反对用户信息自由流转给广告商和开发者的做法。你对蒂姆·库克在这个决定中的参与了解多少，这个决定与其他产业想要走的方向大相径庭？
Yeah, I mean, this was something that Tim channeled from Steve Jehob. Steve Jehob said had a really strong position on privacy and Tim Cook picked up that mantle and carried it forward in part because it was already something that was inside the company. I mean, it was something that its employees really believed strongly in that Apple was different than Facebook and Google.
是的，我的意思是，这是Tim从Steve Jehob那里获得的启示。Steve Jehob对隐私问题有着非常强烈的立场，Tim Cook接过了这个旗帜，并把它推向前进，部分原因是因为这已经是公司内部的一个共同信念。我的意思是，它是一些员工真正坚信的东西，他们认为苹果与Facebook和谷歌不同。
Facebook and Google were focused on, as Tim Cook likes to say, making people the product. Whereas Apple was focused on selling its devices, not selling advertisements to people that were kind of built around what people wanted and needed.
Facebook和谷歌一心致力于把人作为产品，正如蒂姆·库克所说。而苹果则专注于销售其设备，而不是向人们销售基于他们想要和需要的广告。
So Tim spent a lot of time shortly after taking over a CEO, thinking through the parameters of what that might mean. One of the questions that he wrestled with was, well, what happens if there's some awful incident in a terrorist attack where somebody has an iPhone and there's information on the iPhone or if there's a hostage taken and some law enforcement official has an iPhone and says, well, if we can just get into this, we'll know where that person is. And Tim wrestled with, how do you answer that question?
蒂姆接任CEO后，花了很多时间思考这个职位的各种可能性和限制。其中一个问题让他困扰，那就是，如果恐怖袭击中有人拥有一部iPhone，且其中有重要信息，或者如果有人被劫持，执法官员有一部iPhone，他们说：“只要我们能够进入这部手机，我们就能知道那个人在哪里。”蒂姆正在思考，如何回答这个问题。
He would meet with the legal team and talk through those issues. And he developed just a firm sense that what's, this is Apple's marketing material, but like what's on your iPhone stays on your iPhone. It's not Apple's to turn it over. Apple's not big brother. It is merely the maker of the device and the seller device. And we saw this ultimately come to a head when he was very decisive and rejecting the FBI's request to unlock an iPhone after the San Bernardino terrorist incident and late 2015.
他将与法律团队会面，讨论那些问题。他坚定地意识到，iPhone上的内容属于用户，而不是苹果。苹果不会转交这些内容，也不会成为大兄弟。苹果只是设备制造商和销售商。我们最终看到这一点在圣贝纳迪诺恐怖袭击事件后，他果断拒绝了FBI解锁iPhone的要求，此事发生在2015年末。
Well, let's think about the present day of the Ford Company. What services and projects do you think Tim and his team are working on developing right now? Clearly, we have leaks and announcements every once in a while, but perhaps a broader view.
嗯，我们来思考一下福特公司的现今情况。您认为Tim及其团队正在开发哪些服务和项目？显而易见，我们偶尔会听到泄漏和公告，但或许需要更广泛的视野。
Yeah, I mean, they're, they're focused has been on trying to bring Ford a field that a lot of people have anticipated been anticipating for a long time. The people are calling spatial computing. Essentially, it's, it's mixed reality. It's virtual reality and augmented reality blurt together.
是的，我的意思是，他们的专注点在于尝试为福特带来一个许多人期待已久的领域，人们称之为空间计算。基本上，它是混合现实，虚拟现实和增强现实的结合。
And Apple's been at work on making some people call goggles. You could call it goggles or headset that would allow people to have a mixed reality experience where they could do anything from watch content through these goggles, through this headset on their face to play games to, you know, if you were, say, a designer and artist, draw or illustrate or develop something and see kind of what it looks like in a spatial sense as you're completing it.
苹果正在研发一种叫做“眼镜”的设备，这种设备可以让人们体验混合现实。人们可以通过这种眼镜或头戴式显示器观看内容、玩游戏，如果你是设计师或艺术家，还可以通过它进行绘画、插图或开发，并在完成的过程中以空间感来观察成果。
Think, think of a car designer, for example, if, you know, they would maybe model something inside a computer and then be able to wear this headset and, you know, see a, an augmented representation or a digital representation of a car in a warehouse with the actual stitching that they had designed for the car seats and what the leather looked like and the color that they had chosen. And that's been at the forefront of what Apple's been working on and is expected to be released at some point this year.
想象一下汽车设计师，举个例子，他们可能会在计算机内建模，然后穿上这个头戴式设备，可以在仓库里看到汽车的增强现实或数字表示，包括他们为汽车座椅设计的实际缝合以及皮革的外观和他们选择的颜色。这一技术一直是苹果公司重点研发的方向，并预计在今年某个时候发布。
So in that sense, they seem aligned with Facebook meta, believing that augmented reality or virtual reality is the future. But in recent days, certainly the world has been caught by, surprised by the storm of chat GPT and AI. What is Apple cooking up there?
因此从这个角度来看，他们似乎与Facebook元公司保持一致，相信增强现实或虚拟现实是未来的趋势。但是在最近的日子里，世界肯定被聊天GPT（生成对抗性网络）和人工智能的风暴所惊吓。那么，苹果在这方面有什么动向呢？
I mean, one of the things that Apple has struggled with over the years is how do they make Siri perform in a way that is that fulfills people's expectations and the promises of what that product was when I was introduced shortly before Steve Jobs' death. They've tinkered with it over the years and haven't quite gotten it there. And that's really probably the most public-facing example of what they do in the world of AI.
说实话，苹果多年来一直在努力解决的问题之一就是如何让Siri表现出符合人们的期望和当年在Steve Jobs去世前发布时所承诺的功能。他们在这方面一直在进行调整，但似乎始终未能将其完全实现。这很可能是他们在人工智能领域最为公开的例子。
They have, you know, obviously, huge teams of engineers that work in that field and they've been working to improve what's called the knowledge graph for Siri so that it can feel requests more effectively.
他们拥有庞大的工程师团队，致力于改进 Siri 的知识图谱，以便能更有效地响应请求。
But Apple still has work to do in this area and in this arena. And one thing that's worth noting when it comes to chat GPT is that that is happening sort of outside their field of vision. I mean, that really seems to be an arms race in the world of search, email, and productivity work, right?
但是苹果在这个领域和竞技场还有工作要做。值得注意的一件事是，当涉及到聊天GPT时，它似乎是在他们的视野之外。我是说，在搜索、电子邮件和生产力工作的世界中，这似乎真的是一场军备竞赛，对吧？
We're still as the dominant way that people write and send things. People does have its own suite of productivity software like pages and its email service. But those are somewhat of an afterthought relative to those that are offered by tech peers. And, you know, if you were to talk to people who really look at this and speculate on what Apple could do, one of the things that they could do is they could introduce some hardware that makes chat GPT more of an aspect of your daily life or some generative AI more of an aspect of your daily life.
现在，我们仍然是人们书写和发送信息的主要方式。虽然人们也有自己的生产力软件，比如 Pages 和邮件服务，但相对于同行公司提供的软件来说，它们有些次要。如果你跟那些真正关注这个领域并猜测苹果公司可能会做些什么的人交流，他们可能会说，苹果公司可以推出一些硬件，使聊天生成模型更多地融入日常生活，或者让生成式人工智能更加成为你日常生活的一部分。
So when you think back to the headset, we were just talking about, imagine some future where you have glasses on your face and you ask some query and it provides an answer right there in the corner of your glasses. That might be one way that you could get more information or you could have glasses that are kind of scanning the world around you and you're walking down a path and there's an evergreen tree to the right and the glasses happen to have a camera that captures the glimpse of the evergreen tree and you know, a generative AI tool is able to tell you what the actual species of that tree is.
当你想到我们刚才所讨论的耳机时，试想一下一个未来的场景：你戴着眼镜，问了一个问题，它会立即在你眼镜的角落里提供一个答案。这可能是获取更多信息的一种途径，或者你可以使用一些扫描周围环境的眼镜，当你走在一条路上时，右边有一棵常青树，眼镜中的相机捕捉到了常青树的一瞥，通过生成式人工智能工具，你能知道这棵树的实际物种是什么。
The story that we've covered in this series of business movers has been Tim's succession of Steve Jobs. And it's probably not a surprise that Tim is nearing retirement age himself and is thinking about his own plans of succession.
这一系列的商业动态报道涵盖了蒂姆接替史蒂夫·乔布斯的故事。也许并不令人感到惊讶，蒂姆自己也已经接近退休年龄，正在考虑他自己的接班计划。
What do you think he's thinking about in setting up the next CEO of Apple for success? Under Tim Cook, Apple's become an empire. I mean, it is, it is every bit as influential in the world as the United States government, you know, the Chinese Communist Party. And so as Tim thinks about who succeeds him, one of his strengths over the past decade has been his ability to navigate politics and geopolitics and that's going to have to be something that he thinks about and who he taps as a successor.
你认为他在考虑什么，来确保苹果公司下一任CEO的成功？在蒂姆·库克的领导下，苹果成为了一个帝国。我想说，它在世界上的影响力与美国政府以及中国共产党不相上下。因此，当蒂姆考虑谁将接替他时，过去十年他的一大优势就是能够应对政治和地缘政治，这将是他需要思考的问题，也是他挑选继任者时需要考虑的因素之一。
Somebody who has those sensibilities that he's shown that have allowed Apple to navigate tricky issues like President Trump and the trade war with China. The other thing that I'll have to figure out because each successor that Apple moves on from Steve Jobs makes them more distant from that kind of creative spirit and the messaging of Steve Jobs.
有着这些敏感性的人，他已经展现了这些敏感性，使得苹果公司能够应对像特朗普总统和与中国的贸易战等棘手问题。另外一件事情我必须要想明白，因为每一位接替史蒂夫·乔布斯的苹果的领导者都让他们与那种创造性思维和史蒂夫·乔布斯的信息传达更加疏远。
So Tim will want to pick somebody who's familiar with the ethos that Steve brought to bear inside the company and what his vision for creativity inside Apple myth while Apple has struggled to maintain that to the satisfaction of some people like Johnny Ive, you still want to be sure that whoever succeeds Tim Cugg is somebody who understands that and pushes that through the company because it's key to their future and their, you know, and their ultimate success.
蒂姆会想要选择一个熟悉史蒂夫在公司内部所倡导的理念和苹果的创意愿景的人，尽管苹果在满足像乔尼·艾夫这样的某些人的期望方面遇到了困难，但你仍然希望接替蒂姆·库克的人能够理解并推动这一点，因为这对于他们的未来和最终的成功至关重要。
This is a business podcast and many of the more instructional and favorite stories listeners enjoy are founding stories. The story of the scrappy startup that turns into something spectacular through the sheer grit and genius of the people who made it. Tim Cugg's story is not exactly that. This is a succession story. This is taking something special and maintaining its special status and perhaps improving it in ways that invite controversy or critique. But I'd still like to hear your opinion about what our listeners can learn from Tim Cugg's journey in this precarious and difficult movement from iconic co-founder to an iconic global company.
这是一个商业播客，许多听众喜爱的启示性和精彩故事往往是创立故事。这是一个充满斗志和才华的团队将自己的小企业变成令人惊叹的大企业的故事。但是蒂姆·卡格（Tim Cugg）的故事并不完全如此。这是一个继承故事。这是将特别的事物保持其特殊地位，并以邀请争议或批评的方式进行改进。但我仍然希望听听您对蒂姆·卡格从标志性联合创始人到标志性全球公司的艰难转型中，我们的听众可以学到什么的意见。
Here we talked about Steve Jobs' message to Tim before his death, which was, don't do what I would do, essentially be yourself. It sounds simple on its surface and easy to execute, but I can only imagine how difficult that must have been, especially, you know, for someone like Tim Cugg who knew he was so remarkably different from Steve Jobs, who was a one of a kind individual.
在这里，我们谈论了史蒂夫·乔布斯在去世前给蒂姆发的信，他的意思是要做自己，不要跟着他的步伐走。看起来很简单，易于实施，但我能想象这是多么困难，尤其是对于像蒂姆·庫克这样知道自己与史蒂夫·乔布斯如此不同的人来说，乔布斯是一位独一无二的人。
Tim Cugg's a one of a kind individual, but has very different strengths. Tim really recognized those strengths and then I think he took two things with him that were already part of him and leaned on those skills to make sure that what he did sustained the company going forward. And those two things were patience and persistence. Apple, you know, was quick to act when it was a smaller company. Tim made sure that as it became a bigger company, that it was patient and persistent and what it did. So that, for example, the Apple Watch, when it was introduced and it didn't fulfill the company's own internal expectations, that the company continued to tweak around the edges to make sure that the marketing got right and that the product did find its legs and take off and get adopted fairly broadly. He's taken some of the same approach to services and he's been persistent in pushing that forward. And I think those are two strengths of his that are easy to overlook, but were critical to the success that Apple's had and that he's had as a leader.
蒂姆·库克是一个独特的个体，但他有非常不同的优势。蒂姆真正认识到了这些优势，然后我认为他带着已经属于他自己的两件事情，并依靠这些技能确保他所做的事情可以持续推进公司。这两件事情就是耐心和坚韧。在早期，苹果公司很快就采取了行动。蒂姆确保在公司变得更大后，它在所做的事情上保持耐心和坚定。例如，当苹果手表推出时，它没有达到公司自己的内部期望，但公司继续在边缘进行调整，确保市场营销正确，产品确实找到了其发展和广泛采用的支点。他采取了相同的方法来推动服务，并且一直坚持不懈地推进。我认为这两个他的优势很容易被忽视，但在苹果和他担任领导者的成功中至关重要。
Now that the after-steve book is out and has been for about a year now, what are you working on now? Well, I'm covering Apple now for the New York Times in addition to the broader tech world and I'm very focused on the issues of wayoffs and that job. And then I'm looking at other ways to write about leaders and transformative leaders and have some book ideas in mind. Well I hope whatever succeeds this most recent book is just as successful.
自从《史蒂夫之后》的书出版已经大约一年了，你现在在做什么？嗯，我现在除了广泛的科技领域，还在为《纽约时报》报道苹果公司，并且非常关注裁员和就业问题。然后我正在考虑其他写领导者和变革性领导者的方式，并有一些书籍构思。我希望无论接下来的书是什么，都能和最近的这本书一样成功。
Trip, Michael, thank you so much for speaking with me today on Business Movers. Thanks so much for having me. That was my conversation with journalist and author Trip, Nicol. His latest book is called After Steve, How Apple Became a Trillion Dollar Company and Lost Its Solar. From one read, this is the final episode on our series on Tim Cook and Apple, on the next season of Business Movers.
Trip和Michael，非常感谢你们今天在《商界大咖》节目中接受我的采访。非常感谢你们接受我的采访。今天我采访的是记者和作家Trip Nicol，他的最新书籍名为《史蒂夫走后：苹果是如何成为万亿美元公司并失去太阳能的》。从这一篇文章来看，这是我们关于蒂姆·库克和苹果的系列节目的最后一集，在下一季的《商界大咖》中我们会继续关注。
In the 1970s, Sam Walton stepped away from his retail empire Walmart. But with Sam gone, the company nearly buckles under the weight of a power struggle at the executive level. The stress with how his company is being run in his absence, Sam comes out of semi-retirement with a vengeance, determined to write the ship and take his company to the next level.
在20世纪70年代，沃尔玛零售帝国的创始人山姆·沃尔顿离开了公司。但是在山姆离开之后，公司却几乎因为高管层的权力斗争而崩溃。因此，山姆感到担忧自己的公司在他的离开后如何被经营，于是他决定弃退休状态，怒气冲冲地回到公司，决心驾驭公司，将其带向更高的水平。
If you'd like to learn more about Tim Cook, we recommend After Steve, by our guest on this episode, Trip, Nicol, and Haunted Empire, Apple After Steve Jobs, by Yucari Iwatani Kane. This episode contains reenactments and dramatized details. And while in most cases we can't know exactly what was said, all our dramatizations are based on historical research.
如果你想了解更多关于蒂姆·库克的信息，我们推荐本期节目的嘉宾Trip, Nicol所著的《史蒂夫之后》和Yucari Iwatani Kane所著的《苹果之后: 史蒂夫•乔布斯》。本期节目包含演绎和剧化细节。虽然在大多数情况下我们无法确定确切的话语，但所有我们的演绎都是基于历史研究的。
Business Movers has hosted, edited, and executed produced by me, Lindsey Graham, for airship. Audio editing by Emily Burke, Sound Design by Molly Bach, Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written and researched by William Simpson. Executive producers are Steven Walters for airship and Aaron O'Flaherty, Jenny Lauer Beckman from Marshall Louis for Wondering.
《商业迁居者》是由我，林赛·格雷厄姆，制作、编辑和执行的节目。音频编辑由艾米丽·伯克执导，声音设计由莫莉·巴赫制作，音乐由我创作。这一集的写作和研究由威廉·辛普森完成。执行制片人是史蒂芬·沃尔特斯 （Steven Walters）和艾伦·弗拉赫蒂（Aaron O'Flaherty）及珍妮·劳尔·贝克曼 (Jenny Lauer Beckman)，皆来自 Wondering公司部门。