Instacart's Fidji Simo | Building A Tech-Enabled Food System
发布时间 2023-02-28 18:45:07 来源
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Gray Matter, the podcast from GrayLock, where research tours from company builders and business leaders. I'm Heather Mack, head of editorial at GrayLock.
大家好，欢迎来到GrayLock的播客节目Gray Matter。这里将为我们带来公司创始人和商业领袖的研究之旅。我是GrayLock编辑部的负责人Heather Mack。
Today, GrayLock general partner David Thacker interviews Fiji Simo, who is the CEO of Instacart. Simo joined the online grocery delivery company in 2021 during a period of significant growth due to the pandemic.
今天，GrayLock的总合伙人David Thacker采访了Instacart的首席执行官Fiji Simo。由于疫情造成的显着增长，Simo在2021年加入了这家在线杂货送货公司。
As people have largely returned to in-person lifestyles, the demand for many online-only services has adjusted accordingly. But the appeal of virtual services still remains high, and many industries have been permanently altered by habits and expectations consumers picked up during the pandemic.
随着人们基本上重返线下生活方式，许多仅在线上提供的服务的需求也相应地调整了。但虚拟服务仍然具有很高的吸引力，许多产业已经永久地受到疫情期间消费者所养成的习惯和期望的影响。
Moreover, the pandemic-induced acceleration and digital transformation was critical in bringing many antiquated industries into the modern age. But many glaring issues with inefficient processes and lack of visibility persist.
此外，受疫情影响加速和数字化转型对许多陈旧产业的现代化至关重要。但许多低效率流程和缺乏可见性的问题仍然存在。
With grocery still among the least digitally enabled sectors of commerce, Instacart sees plenty of opportunity to build technology that will lift up all stakeholders in the ecosystem, including stores, brands, shipping logistics, and of course, everyday consumers.
由于杂货仍然是数字化能力最弱的商业领域之一，Instacart看到了大量机会来建立技术，提升生态系统中所有利益相关者，包括商店、品牌、运输物流和当然，日常消费者。
Simo, who previously worked at Meta for more than a decade and oversaw the conceptualization, development, and release of many iconic products, is accustomed to taking bold bets on transformative technology.
Simo曾在Meta工作了十多年，负责构思、开发和发布许多具有标志性的产品，习惯于在转型技术上做出大胆的投注。
She spoke with Thacker about identifying moments in time where new technology can find traction, what she learned from leaders and mentors throughout her career, and how she approaches leadership, and how she separates major disruptive events from secular trends in order to chart a sustainable business course forward.
她跟塞克谈论了如何确定新技术能够获得成功的时刻，关于她在职业生涯中从领导者和导师身上学到的东西，以及她如何处理领导层问题，以及如何区别重大的颠覆性事件与长期趋势，以便规划出可持续的商业路线。
This interview is part of Greylock's Iconversation series. You can watch a video on our YouTube channel and read an essay of the highlights on the Condit Section on our website, Greylock.com/blog. Both links are in the show notes. And if you aren't already subscribed to GrayMatter, you can sign up wherever you get your podcasts.
这个采访是Greylock的Iconversation系列的一部分。你可以在我们的YouTube频道观看视频，也可以在我们网站的Condit部分上阅读文章亮点。两个链接都在节目注释中。如果你还没有订阅GrayMatter，可以在任何获取播客的地方进行注册。
Good morning, everyone. Thanks for being here. It's an honor to have Fiji here today with us to talk about Instacart and a few other topics. So let's dive right into questions. And at the end, we'll have time for audience questions. So be thinking of things you'd like to ask her.
大家早上好，谢谢大家能来。今天我们非常荣幸能邀请到Fiji跟我们谈论Instacart以及其他一些话题。让我们马上开始提问吧。最后，我们还会留出时间给观众提问，因此请大家提前想好自己想问的问题。
So Fiji, you joined Instacart in August of 2021, and that's a period of hyper growth. It was coming out of the pandemic. The company had seen pretty spectacular growth. Most of us think of Instacart today as grocery delivery. I'd love for you to take a step back and just kind of define Instacart for us. What are your ambitions for the company?
所以，Fiji，您在2021年8月加入了Instacart，那是一个超级增长的时期。它正在走出大流行。该公司已经看到了相当惊人的增长。我们大多数人今天认为Instacart是杂货送货。我希望您能退后一步，为我们定义一下Instacart。您对该公司的雄心壮志是什么？
Yes, it's a great question. Hi, everyone. Happy to be here.
是的，这是一个很棒的问题。大家好，很高兴来到这里。
So when I decided to take this job, I saw that Instacart was already a great service that saves a lot of time for families. But I saw something much more than online grocery delivery.
当我决定接受这份工作时，我认为Instacart已经是一个能够为家庭节省大量时间的好服务。但是，我看到的不仅仅是在线杂货配送。
When I looked at this company and I had the benefit of being on the board of that company for six months before taking the job, what I saw was a massive $1 trillion in the industry in the midst of a massive digital transformation.
当我看到这家公司并在担任该公司董事会六个月之后得到这份工作时，我看到了一个巨大的1万亿美元的行业正在经历一场大规模的数字转型。
And it's interesting because grocery is the largest category of commerce. Yet it's a list penetrated online and it's a list digitally enabled. And I saw this opportunity for Instacart to become the technology backbone for that entire industry.
这很有趣，因为杂货是商业的最大类别。尽管这是一个在线的清单，也是一个数字化的清单。我看到了Instacart成为整个行业技术支撑的机会。
And so when you ask, like, what is the vision for the company? The vision is to build all of the technologies that can power every grocery transaction. And that is a much more expensive vision than just online delivery.
所以，当你这样问：“公司的愿景是什么？”愿景就是构建能够支持每一笔购物交易的全部技术。这比仅仅提供在线送货的愿景要昂贵得多。
And then the second thing that I really changed was the way in which we engage with partners where I thought about it from the point of view of really lifting up the entire ecosystem instead of having this tension between Instacart and the grosses and being an aggregator.
然后我真正改变的第二件事是我们如何与合作伙伴互动，我从真正提升整个生态系统的角度考虑，而不是在Instacart和grosses之间产生紧张关系并成为一个聚合器。如果需要，我可以改成以下表述：然后，我真正改变的第二件事是我们与合作伙伴互动的方式。我从提升整个生态系统的角度考虑，而不是仅仅作为一个聚合商，而且还减少Instacart与grosses之间的紧张关系。
Really what I wanted to do was being an enabler for retailers for them to grow. And when I arrive, I change some of the company values and one of the ones that I put in place is called Grow the Pie.
其实我想做的是成为零售商成长的推手。我来了之后改变了一些公司价值观，并推出了一个叫做“扩大蛋糕”的价值观。
And I think it's really important, especially in this macroeconomic context where everybody goes to scarcity, kind of goes to like, oh, someone needs to lose for me to win, to realize that in technology, technology leaves all boats.
我认为这非常重要，特别是在宏观经济的背景下，每个人都面临匮乏的情况，会趋向于认为我要赢，就需要有人输。但我们需要认识到，在技术领域中，技术是让所有船只都能浮起来的。
And so we could afford to have a strategy that was really anchored in making the entire industry better. And we would benefit as a result.
因此，我们有能力制定一个真正着眼于使整个行业变得更好的策略。而我们也会因此受益。
Yeah, that's great. And one of the things that's on a lot of people's mind here is the current economic climate. Instacart was a huge beneficiary from the pandemic. But like many companies, as we have kind of gone back to a new normal, you've seen some tempered growth. How are you thinking about investing going forward, especially with the uncertainty of where the macro economy is going?
是的，太好了。现在很多人都非常关注当前的经济形势。Instacart在疫情期间获利颇丰。但像许多公司一样，随着我们逐渐恢复到新的正常状态，你们也看到了一些增长放缓的情况。考虑到宏观经济形势的不确定性，你们如何思考未来的投资计划？
Yeah, so I think it's important to kind of decouple what COVID did and what are secular trends. And if you look at the secular trends, at least in my business, like I said, online grocery delivery was 3% penetrated online before COVID. After COVID, it was 10% penetrated online. So that still gives us a lot of room for growth. And yes, that's not going to be, you know, 4 to 5X growth, like we saw in 2020. But that's going to be steady growth that we need to continue fueling.
嗯，我认为很重要的是要将COVID所做的与世俗趋势区分开。如果你看看世俗趋势，至少在我的行业中，就像我说的那样，在COVID之前，3%的网购杂货交付在线，而在COVID之后，这个数字增加到了10%。所以我们还有很大的增长空间。是的，这不会像我们在2020年看到的4到5倍增长那么快，但这将是我们需要继续推动的稳定增长。
Now you ask a good question, which is in this macro environment, how do we think about things? And for me, I have clearly carved out some of the, like, sort of big bets and investment for the future. And a big one that we're making is this idea of not just moving the industry online and doing online grocery delivery, but also building technology for the stores. And that is future growth. And in the meantime, for the core business, we are really looking at the macro condition and being extremely responsible given that we don't really know what's next year's holds. There might be a recession, you know, food usually is pretty well positioned during a recession. People certainly need to eat. But certainly we see some adjustment in, you know, half people consume. And so we want to be prepared for that. And therefore driving the company with way more efficiency and way more attention to, you know, productivity and how we spend all resources than we ever have.
你问了一个好问题，就是在这个宏观环境下，我们应该如何思考。对于我来说，我已经明确划定了一些类似的大赌注和未来投资方向。我们正在做一个很大的决策，这个决策不仅仅是将行业转移到线上并进行在线购物配送，而且也是建立商店技术的想法。这是未来的增长点。与此同时，对于核心业务，我们非常关注宏观条件，因为我们不知道明年会发生什么。可能会陷入经济衰退，你知道，在经济衰退期间，食品通常处于很好的地位，人们肯定需要吃饭。但是我们也看到人们在消费方式上做了一些调整，所以我们希望做好准备。因此，我们要以比以往更高的效率和更多的关注生产力和如何使用所有资源来推动公司的发展。
Great. And you were on the board of Instacart before you became CEO. I think you joined in January 2021. So what was it in those seven months as a board member that you saw or that you learned that made you decide you wanted to jump in and take the reins?
太好了。在您成为CEO之前，您曾在Instacart的董事会任职。我想您是在2021年1月加入的。那么，在担任董事会成员的那七个月里，您看到了什么或者学到了什么，使您决定跳入其中并掌控局面呢？
I joined, you know, after 10 years at Facebook and I was leading the Facebook app and I didn't think at all that I was going to leave Facebook. I loved my job. But I wanted to be on the board to kind of learn more about other businesses. And during those, you know, six, seven months I spent a lot of time with Instacart's founder, a problem, really understanding the business and really kind of helping him understand like what he was going to take to take it to a much larger scale. And at the end of that he kind of concluded that it might be better for me to go do that.
10年在Facebook后，我加入了Instacart。当时我是领导Facebook应用的，我完全没有想过离开Facebook。我喜欢我的工作。但我想成为董事会成员，以便更多地了解其他企业。在那六、七个月里，我花了很多时间与Instacart的创始人一起，真正理解了这个业务，并帮助他了解如何将其推向更大规模。最后，他得出结论，让我去做那件事可能会更好。
The things I was really exciting for me was this idea of really transforming an entire industry, not just like having a service that was like great for consumers. That's a given. That's really important. But do it in a way that can really transform an industry and leave tall boats. And especially an industry that is so critical to people's health, to people's lives. I mean, when you think about food and beyond groceries in Thai food supply chain, we would be living in such a better world if that entire supply chain was technology enabled. We would have less food waste. We would have more food responsibility.
我真正兴奋的事情是能够彻底改变整个行业的想法，而不仅仅是提供一项对消费者很好的服务。这是理所当然的，非常重要。但要以一种能够真正改变行业并留下深远影响的方式来完成。特别是对于一个对人们的健康和生命如此重要的行业。当你想到食品以及泰国食品供应链之外的领域时，如果整个供应链都使用了技术，我们将生活在一个更好的世界中。我们将减少食物浪费，增加食品责任。
And so the fact that we can build technology for that entire industry gives us a massive opportunity to affect a lot of important problems in the world. And so to me, that's the thing that really can mean to me. But it's really hard to step into a CEO role in funder-led companies. And I think a lot of what helped me was two of Instacart school founders are still at the company, Max and Brandon. And I really went to them for advice on how to unleash the DNA of the company and what made it special towards my vision. And instead of coming in and being like, okay, this is how I want to get it done. I really kind of spend time validating my vision with the leaders internally and also really understanding how we could unleash the existing culture towards this kind of bolder, more ambitious vision.
因此，我们能够为整个行业构建技术这一事实，给了我们一个极大的机会来解决世界上许多重要的问题。对我来说，这真的意义重大。但是在由金主领导的公司中担任CEO是非常困难的。我认为帮助我很多的是，Instacart的两位创始人Max和Brandon仍在公司里。我真的很需要他们对如何释放公司DNA和实现我的愿景的建议。而我并没有像这样做，而是花了很多时间与内部领导者确认我的愿景，并真正理解如何将现有文化解放出来，朝着这样更加大胆、更加有雄心的愿景努力。
Yeah, I know that that founder, this CEO transition can be very difficult, but it's not like it's worked pretty well. I wish it was a little bit more accepted in the industry that you can make that transition because, you know, there are actually not a lot of founders that can scale from like being the absolute best at the zero to one all the way to being the best at massive scale. Like these are completely different skill sets. And it's amazing when people are able to be there for that entire journey.
是的，我知道，公司创始人和CEO交接可以非常困难，但并不像事情进展得很顺利。我希望在行业中能更加接受这种转变，因为，你知道的，实际上没有很多创始人能够从零到一，一直到实现巨大规模的过程中成为最优秀的人。这些是完全不同的技能集。当人们能够一直在这个旅程中是非常了不起的。
Great. So let's switch topics to Facebook. You joined Facebook in 2011 as like a product marketing manager and you spent a decade there, took on increasing responsibility on the product side. Eventually you were running the Facebook app one of the most senior executives there. So when you think about, you know, your leadership and growing as a leader, I'm sure Facebook was your formative sort of experience for that. Are there any key moments that you reflect back on that you say that really you grew as a leader within Facebook?
太棒了！那我们来谈谈Facebook。你在2011年加入Facebook，担任产品营销经理，花费了十年时间，逐渐承担起越来越多的产品工作责任。最终，你成为了Facebook应用程序的高级主管之一。因此，当你思考你的领导力和成长为领导者时，我相信Facebook是你形成经验的重要因素。有没有任何关键时刻，你回想起来，你认为你在Facebook内成长为一位领导者？
Oh, absolutely. Well, that was this moment where Mark Zuckerberg asked me to lead ads inside news feeds and therefore inside mobile. And that moment, whereas when the stock was down 50% and CNBC was running headlines saying Facebook will never manage to monetize mobile, which is a little stress inducing when you decide to take that job.
哦，完全正确。那时马克·扎克伯格要求我在新闻源内和移动端内领导广告。而那一刻，Facebook的股票下跌了50%，CNBC报道称Facebook永远无法赚取移动广告费。当你决定接手这份工作时会感到有些压力。
And the things I was really interesting at that moment is I realized that if you want a great career, you can't always play it safe. And you know, I'm talking to a group of founders who clearly have even the student that already. But you know, it wasn't obvious to most people that we could monetize mobile. Like in fact, the opposite was more obvious. And by making the non-abuse bets and making them work, that's kind of how you can really change the trajectory of your career, but also of your life in general.
我当时最感兴趣的事情是意识到，如果你想要一份成功的职业，你不能总是玩得很安全。我正在和一群创始人交谈，他们显然已经了解了这一点，甚至包括那些学生。但是，并不是每个人都能意识到我们可以利用移动设备获得利润。事实上，相反的情况更为明显。通过投注并让其奏效，这就是你可以真正改变事业轨迹，同时也改变你生活的方式。
And the same thing happened with video, you know, I, after we monetized, figured out that's monetized mobile, we realized that the world was moving massively to video. But even inside the companies, there were plenty of people who were saying like, Facebook should kind of sit this one out because like YouTube has been added for eight years. And there's no way we can, you know, do something in that space. And so again, like I jumped in with seven engineers at the time who were mostly in charge of like making sure that when people would share a YouTube link, it would play in line. And we started building, you know, what is Facebook video?
同样的事情也发生在视频方面。你知道，在我们实现了移动端的收费之后，我意识到了视频收费的重要性，我们意识到世界正在大规模地向视频方向发展。但是即使在公司内部，也有很多人声称，Facebook应该坐视不管，因为YouTube已经存在了八年。我们无法在这个领域做些什么。所以，当时我和七位工程师一起着手解决这个问题。他们主要负责确保当人们分享YouTube链接时，视频会自动播放。接着，我们开始建立Facebook视频。
And there, what was interesting and a big leadership moment was, you know, the launch of Facebook live was amazing overnight success. So launch of Facebook watch, however, which was like the desk of video destination for within Facebook, like took a long time to get right. And realizing that you need as a leader to be very stubborn on the destination, but incredibly flexible on the journey to get there was one of, you know, big realization of that moment and we pivoted a lot of times to get to the right answer. But I was very determined that, you know, people wanted to consume video in a destination. So we in which they wanted to do that, you know, we iterated a lot until we got it right.
在那儿，有一件有趣的领导时刻，就是Facebook直播的推出，是个一夜成名的了不起的成功案例。然而，Facebook观看的推出，就像视频目的地的桌面一样，花费了很长时间才能达到。作为领导者，你需要坚定不移地确定目的地，但在达到目的地的旅程中要非常灵活，这是那个时刻的重要体现之一。我们曾经多次改变方向，以达到正确答案。但是我非常确定，人们希望在目的地消费视频。所以，我们一直在不断推进和改进，直到达到满意为止。
Yeah, those are both examples you mentioned were, you know, mobile monetization, video transformational for Facebook. I think companies hit these inflection points when they discover these things. And what's funny is, you know, the headlines 10 years ago where Facebook will never monetize mobile in the paper today that headlines are Facebook will never monetize the the metaverse. So I wouldn't bet against more. Yeah, yeah, we'll see.
是的，你提到的那两个例子都是Facebook的移动变现和视频转型的例子。我认为公司在发现这些事情时会达到这个拐点。有趣的是，10年前的头条新闻是Facebook永远不会在移动端变现，而今天的头条新闻是Facebook永远不会在元宇宙中变现。所以我不会押注说不会有更多的变化。是的，我们拭目以待。
So let's switch to talk about talents. So we'd love to hear about how you assemble high performing teams. And as you've come into Instacart, you've had to, you know, build a leadership team, you've attracted people together. How do you go about this? How do you attract the right people? How do you assess the right people? And then how do you make sure that they're working seamlessly together?
那么，我们现在来谈谈人才方面。我们很想听听您是如何组建高绩效团队的。作为一名加入Instacart的领导者，您必须要建立一个领导团队，吸引人才加入。您是如何做到的呢？您如何吸引合适的人才？如何评估他们是否合适？然后，您如何确保他们能够无缝协作？
Yeah, that's a great question. And I could spend, you know, many hours talking about this, but at a high level, like on, on a tracking talent, I think of it as twofold. Yes, like recruiting can be like the analogy of a magnet, but it should also be the analogy of a balancer.
哦，那是一道非常好的问题。我可以花很多时间来谈论这个话题，但总体上，我认为跟踪人才有两个方面。招聘就像磁铁一样吸引人才，但同时也要像平衡器一样兼顾平衡。
And like, sometimes we're so focused on trying to attract talent that we skip that step. And my biggest mishires were people that on paper looked phenomenal. And I was like, I would be so lucky to just like lend them. And then you realize you don't do your due diligence enough on figuring out, okay, are they going to be a great fit with the culture as a complimentary with the team? Are they really taking this challenge for the right reasons? And so I spend a lot more time almost in that like balancer role.
有时候我们太专注于吸引人才了，结果跳过了这个步骤。我的最大失误是雇佣看上去在纸面上非常出色的人。我当时觉得像能跟他们合作就太走运了，但后来发现自己没有做足够的尽职调查，没有想清楚他们是否与企业文化相协调，是否真正出于正确原因来迎接挑战。因此，我现在花更多的时间在平衡角色上。
And any exact that I hire, I always have this one big conversation during the hiring journey where I tell them, we're going to sit for an hour and I'm going to give you all of the reasons not to join in the cards. And like, people are a little bit surprised by that, but trust me, like, if they join after that, you know, you have a keeper because we all know startups are no joke. Like, you need people who have like grit and want to be there and are going to ride the ups and downs. And so that's a very big part of like recruiting.
每当我雇佣一个人，我总会在招聘过程中进行一次大型谈话，告诉他们所有不加入我们的理由。人们对此有些惊讶，但是相信我，如果他们在那之后仍然加入，那么你就得到了一个珍贵的员工。因为我们都知道创业公司不是闹着玩的。你需要那些有毅力，愿意在那里工作并且能够承受高峰和低谷的人。所以，这是招募的一个非常重要的部分。
So the thing I care enormously about is really understanding people's magic and unleashing it as part of a leadership team. And so I do this exercise where, you know, during my leadership team dinner, I kind of talk about like the magic that I see in everyone. And I invite the leaders to share with the rest of the group how they do a certain thing and train the rest of the group on that.
我非常关心的是真正理解人们的魔力，并将其释放作为领导团队的一部分。所以我会进行一个练习，你知道，在我的领导团队晚餐上，我会谈论我看到每个人身上的魔力。我邀请领袖与团队其它成员分享他们如何做某件事，并为团队的其它成员提供指导。
And what it leads to is that they end up really helping each other during, you know, tough times. It leveraging the skills and the magic and the superpowers that they know they have. And what it does is that each of my leaders are not just like my chief comes officer or my chief product officers. I tell them you are a set of leaders and we're running the company together.
“它的意义就在于，在困难时刻，他们会真正互相帮助。他们利用自己拥有的技能、魔力和超能力。这样做的结果是，我的每一位领导者都不仅仅是我的首席营运官或首席产品官。我告诉他们，你们是一群领袖，我们共同经营这家公司。”
We're partners in making this business better. And yes, you might have a title of chief comes officer, but fundamentally your way more than comes. And so if you have like, you know, my, probably not my chief comes officer is incredible at getting like extreme consistency and productivity out of our team. Well, that's something we kind of need in product and then just well. And so like, how can she, you know, go help with that type of skills at across the company?
我们是合作伙伴，致力于将这个企业发展得更加优秀。没错，你可能拥有首席市场营销官这样的头衔，但实际上你所具备的远不止这些。我有一个非常不错的首席市场营销官，她擅长从团队中获得极高的一致性和生产力。这正是我们的产品所需要的，她如何能够利用这些技能来为公司整体作出贡献呢？
And so I'm really trying to get like some of the superpowers and get all of these execs to apply the superpowers outside of just their function, which pushes them to work better together, spend more time on company-wide problems instead of just having their, like, the heart of their function and create, I think, like a lot more resilience in the business. So yeah, that's great. Great.
所以我真的在尝试获取一些超能力，并让所有这些高管将超能力应用于他们职责之外的领域，这将推动他们更好地合作，花更多时间解决企业范围的问题，而不仅仅是他们工作职责的关键点，并且我认为这会在企业中创建更多的韧性。所以，是的，这很棒。棒极了。
I like the analogy of the bouncer. Have you ever scared anyone off that wanted to join when you sort of gave the reality of the company? Oh, absolutely. And that's a good thing. Good thing. Yeah, I'm glad I scared them off because like, you know, when they come in, I'd rather know upfront. Okay, let's talk about a new initiative you just announced last month for Instacart. It's called Instacart Health.
我喜欢保安的比喻。你曾经吓退过想加入你公司的人吗，因为你提供了实际情况？哦，肯定。这是好事。好事。是啊，我很高兴吓退了他们，因为你知道，当他们进来时，我宁愿事先知道。好的，让我们谈谈你上个月为Instacart宣布的一项新倡议 - Instacart Health。
We'll love you for you to give an overview of that. You're trying to improve people's access to nutritious food. It's a social good you're pursuing here. And I want to know, how do you balance investing in a social cause at this time? You're also trying to balance, you know, shareholder wishes. Yeah.
我们会非常喜欢你给我们一个总体的概述。你正在努力改善人们获取营养食物的途径。你追求的是社会公益。而我想知道的是，你是如何在这个时候平衡投资社会事业的呢？你还在努力平衡股东的愿望。是的。
I think the way you frame the question of balancing things out almost assumes there's a tension between the two. But I actually believe that's the best way to do social good in the world is to have a business, a core business, a way you make money. That's a line with good outcomes in the world. And that's really important because, you know, if you have this like, you know, corporate social responsibility initiatives, social initiatives kind of on the side for peer reasons or whatever, like you're never going to invest as much to solve that problem than if it was your core business.
我觉得你提出平衡事物的问题的方式几乎默认两者之间存在紧张关系。但实际上，我认为在世界上实现社会利益的最佳方式是拥有一个业务，一个核心业务，一种赚钱的方式。这符合世界上良好结果的标准。这非常重要，因为如果你有这种像企业社会责任倡议、社会倡议之类的副业，基于同伴互相之类的原因，你永远不会像把它作为核心业务投资解决问题那样投资那个问题。
So if we take the example of Instacart Health, what is it that, you know, at a basic level, it is making sure that people get more access to nutritious food. They can make better food choices that support their health and then leasing their health care industry to help make that happen, you know, at a very high level. All of that is like a massive social good because I believe that America's biggest health problems are actually food problems.
如果我们以Instacart Health为例，它基本上确保人们更多地接触有营养的食品，让他们做出更好的食品选择，从而协助他们维护健康，并且利用他们的医疗保健产业实现这一点。所有这些都是非常重要的社会价值，因为我认为美国最大的健康问题实际上是饮食问题。
So if we solve that, massive social good, but it turns out it's also massively impactful for our business because that will mean we're delivering a lot more food to people. And so to me, I never want to be on the extremes of like, you know, thinking of these things as decoupled, it needs to be that like your core business needs to have a positive impact on the world otherwise, you know, why are we all doing these companies? And because it has a positive impact on the world, you're going to invest more in that social good outcomes and if it was something just on the side. Yeah, great.
如果我们能解决这个问题，将会给社会带来大规模的好处，但这也会对我们的业务产生巨大的影响，因为这意味着我们会为更多的人提供更多的食物。对我来说，我从不想走极端的路线，也不想把这些事情看作是分离的，核心业务必须对世界产生积极影响，否则我们为什么要做这些公司呢？由于它对世界有积极影响，你会更多地投资于社会福利的结果，而不是仅是个人利益。好啊。
We have a few minutes left, so I wanted to give the audience a chance to ask questions. So is there anyone with a question for VG? Thanks so much for doing this. Just a super specific question. You mentioned in passing these leadership dinners that you host. You just say a little bit more about what that is, the frequency, how you use that?
我们还有几分钟的时间，所以我想给听众提问的机会。有没有人有问题要问VG？非常感谢你来。我有一个非常具体的问题。你曾经提到过你主持的这些领导晚宴。你能再多说一些，比如频率，以及你如何利用这个机会吗？
Yeah, absolutely. So I do dinners with my management team about once a month, all in person, when we're very much working remotely these days, but I try to bring the whole team in person because I still believe that, you know, in person connections do matter until Marx solves the metaverse. And so I try to do that once a month.
是的，完全同意。所以，我们管理团队每个月约会一次，全都亲自到场，尽管我们最近都在远程工作，但我仍然尝试让整个团队都亲自到场，因为我仍然相信，亲自面对面的交流很重要，直到马克斯解决了元宇宙的问题。所以我尽量每个月都安排一次这样的会议。
And then I bring a larger group of leaders who think like the VP group together kind of wants a quarter. And like, this is a much larger group where we have kind of different programming. But the main thing that I try to get right in these dinners, especially with my leadership team, is not make them entirely about the work and like the issues at hands, but make it about like the craft of how we're working together, the craft of operating.
然后，我会带来一批更多像副总裁团队那样思考的领导人，大约想要四分之一的人数。这是一个规模更大的团队，我们有着不同的专业方向。但是，在这些晚餐中，尤其是在和我的领导团队共聚时，我主要想做到的不是让他们完全关注工作和手头的问题，而是关注我们如何协作和深化运营技能的工艺。
And so we end up sharing a lot about like best practices in each team, like challenges that we have, but not about the business challenges that we have in terms of operations and how to help my leaders can help each other.
于是我们最终会分享很多关于每个团队中最佳实践、我们所面临的挑战，但是不会涉及到运营中的业务挑战，以及如何帮助我的领导之间相互帮助。
That's really a moment where everybody is vulnerable. And I set the stage for vulnerability being okay in like sharing what's in it, help on I share what I need a lot of help on as well. And that's really a moment by which we kind of figure out how to help each other out.
那真的是一个每个人都很脆弱的时刻。我营造了一个环境，让大家觉得脆弱是可以被接受的，可以分享内心深处的感受，也可以向大家寻求帮助。这个时刻让我们相互帮助，找到解决问题的方法。
Any other questions over here? I have a very specific question too. So what's your best strategy to swap out a manager of a sub team? We don't see the stage company transitioning into CSA.
还有其他问题吗？我也有一个非常具体的问题。那么，你最好的策略是如何更换子团队的经理？我们看不到舞台公司过渡到CSA。
We're such a small team. When you, you know, lay off the manager of the sub team, it's a big head to the entire team. So I want to hear what's your opinion about that. And I'm not sure that the answer to all your questions, but like I do two things.
我们是一个很小的团队，你知道，如果你解雇了副小组的经理，这会对整个团队产生重大影响。因此，我想听听你对此的看法。我不确定是否能回答你所有的问题，但是我会尽力去做两件事情。
I really try to use these moments as an opportunity to put an interior manager in place that I think is potential and stretch them into the job and give them a little bit of time, like a couple months to see if they can actually do it. And you know, I have actually been very surprised at the number of times where we would look at it and be like, yeah, this person is clearly in terms of they're not going to like be able to have the job.
我真的会尝试利用这些时机，将一个我认为有潜力的内部经理推入到位，并将他们拉入工作中，并给他们一点时间，比如几个月，来看看他们是否真的能做到。你知道的，实际上我很惊讶有多少次我们会看看并说，是的，这个人显然不能胜任这个工作。
And in fact, like they're so excited at the thought that like it's a stretch and they could actually deliver and that's like a forcing opportunity for them that I've seen people really shine. And like that's kind of the best culture you can create in your company, like betting on your talent and giving them opportunities to stretch. And so I try to do that a lot.
实际上，他们对于这个想法是如此兴奋，仿佛这个想法似乎已经超越了他们的能力范围，而他们实际上能够胜任，并且这是一个迫使他们展现出能力的机会，我看到了很多人在这种机会下脱颖而出。这种文化是你可以在公司中创造的最好的文化，这意味着你赌注你的人才，并给予他们扩展机会。所以我经常尝试这样做。
And then during that time, I am also very transparent about the fact that, you know, we're going to interview externally and assess the market. And I think this is also a good time for you as a leader to calibrate on like, is there external talent that is like actually better suited for the stage of the company because you might have scaled, you might have different needs.
那段时间，我也非常坦诚地告诉大家，我们会外部面试，并评估市场情况。我认为这也是作为领导者，您可以调整策略的好时机，看外部是否有更加适合公司阶段的人才，因为您的公司可能已经发展起来了，需要不同的人才。
And it's a good time to kind of rethink what that team needs. And so the combo of these two things results usually in like you making the right decision because you sell up all of the market context, but you're still like, you know, making a bet on someone.
现在是重新思考团队需要的好时机。通过这两个因素的结合，通常会导致你做出正确的决定，因为你已经消化了所有的市场背景，但仍然在押注某个人。
We have time for one more question from the audience. So following up on on the management and leadership, what are the key things that the best managers and leaders that you work with have or like set another way? Like what are the things that we should train our teams in developing so they become great leaders and managers?
我们还有时间回答一个观众的问题。那么就在管理和领导方面继续深入探讨，你和你一起工作的最佳经理和领导有哪些关键要素，或者换句话说就是，我们应该培训我们的团队发展哪些技能，让他们成为优秀的领导和经理？
A couple of things. One is they're incredibly good at sharing context with their teams so that their teams can make the best decisions. And the failure mode I've seen is like, you have the two extreme of like micromanagers who are like in the details of their team's decision and we know that's not good.
有几件事情。一件是他们非常善于与团队分享背景信息，以使团队能够做出最佳决策。我看到的失败模式是，你会有两个极端，像微观管理者一样细致入微地关注团队的决策，我们知道这并不好。
And then you have like kind of the ends of ones. So one in the middle that's like the sweet spot is like really being in the weeds in terms of the context you share, not the decisions you make so that you're able to like get your team to constantly tie back to the overall objectives of the company and you become a pro at trickling down the right information and really enabling the team.
然后你会像拥有一个小尾巴一样。那么，在中间的那个位置，你真正需要的是深入了解你所分享的上下文，而不是你所做的决策，这样你就能够让你的团队不断地与公司的总体目标相联系，并且成为一个熟练的信息下传者，真正帮助团队壮大。
So that's really, really important. The second thing that's obviously very important is figuring out how to clear roadblocks and add value to a team. And again, like the best managers find the right balance between having enough information from their teams but also adding value in each meeting.
所以这真的非常重要。显然，第二件重要的事情是弄清楚如何清除路障并为团队增加价值。再次地，就像最好的经理找到从他们的团队获得足够信息但也在每个会议上增加价值的正确平衡一样。
And I hold myself accountable to that standard. For example, like when I asked teams to come in for a product review, like I know that the bar is not just like they're informing me about what's going on. The bar is I need to add value to that team because they just spent a couple of hours preparing for that thing.
例如，当我要求团队参加产品审查时，我知道标准不仅仅是了解他们在进行什么工作。我需要给这个团队增加价值，因为他们刚刚花了几个小时准备这个事情。我对这个标准要负起责任。
And I communicate that very clearly to all the managers. If you're getting your team to do work for you, they need to see the return on that work. You need to be a multiplier of the team's impact. And so that's also a really important mindset shift because so many managers, especially early in their career thing, like the team works for me, they enable me. It's like, no, no, you enable them.
我已经非常清楚地向所有经理传达了这一点。如果你让你的团队为你工作，他们需要看到这项工作的回报。你需要成为团队影响力的一个乘数。这也是一个非常重要的心态转变，因为很多经理，特别是在事业早期，认为团队为我工作，他们让我有能力。但事实上，你是在帮助他们做事。
And like when they do work for you, they need to see the ROI. And so that's also really important. And then the final thing which is kind of related is like, I always judge on like, did you make each individual in the team better? And you know, it's not just a bad event, like a career conversation once in a while, like checking the box.
就像他们为您工作时一样，他们需要看到投资回报率。这也非常重要。最后一个有点相关的事情是，我总是判断，你是否使团队中的每个个体都变得更好了？而不仅仅是一次不好的事件，比如偶尔的职业谈话，勾选一个框就可以了。
It's really like the best managers I've seen have taken people where, you know, you could see a little bit of magic back to my prior framework. Could see a little bit of magic, but it hadn't been unleashed in the company quite yet. And the best managers figure out how to spot that magic, combine it with the right product and what the company needs, for fuel on that, support it, and then create stars. And that's a very different thing than what most managers think about is like, oh, I'm just going to have, you know, a career conversation and tell them how to get promoted.
真的很像我见过的最好的经理们把人带到了一个地方，你知道，你能在我的先前框架中看到一点点魔力。能看到一点点魔力，但它还没有完全释放在公司里。最好的经理们会找出如何发掘这些魔力，将其与正确的产品和公司需要结合起来，为其提供燃料和支持，然后创造出明星。这和大多数经理认为的不同，他们只是想谈谈职业发展，并告诉他们如何晋升。
It's like, no, no, it's your job to figure out how to unleash that blame in people. So we have just one or two minutes left. I wanted to ask you two quick questions to close out.
就像，不，不，解开人们的责任感是你的工作。我们只剩下一两分钟了。我想问你两个快速的问题来结束。
The first is about your experience with Shopify. So you're on the board of Shopify, you've been on the board for some time. So you've got to interact with Toby. I think it's one of the most incredible entrepreneur, turned CEO of large public companies. Are there any learnings, quick learnings from interacting with Toby and his leadership style or the company itself that really have stuck with you?
首先，关于你在Shopify的经验。你是Shopify的董事会成员，已经担任一段时间了。因此，你必须与Toby互动。我认为他是最不可思议的企业家之一，成为了大型上市公司的CEO。与Toby及其领导风格或公司本身互动中，是否有任何快速学习的经验让你印象深刻？
He has the biggest one is that they do everything from a first principle standpoint. And I know that sounds basic, but until you see it, it's like so striking. So for example, when you come, they were public about rolling out a completely new compensation system. And it was so interesting to see that process because at no point did they think, oh, what are all of the other companies doing so we can follow the trend?
他们最大的优点是从一开始就对所有事情进行深入思考。我知道这听起来很基础，但直到你看到他们的做法，你才会深刻领悟。比如说，当你来到这里的时候，他们公开宣布推出全新的补偿制度。看到这个过程真是很有趣，因为他们从未想过要采取其他公司的做法来追随潮流。
They always start from what does our own company needs? What do all people want? And what is going to best solve the problem? Even if that means kind of reinventing how accomplished it is, which is really interesting. And they do that kind of across the board, like how they run their finance team. And initially, when I arrived, I was like, that seems like a lot of work. Like sometimes established wisdom is nice. And the reality is that they have created a very unique company and they need very unique solutions to enable that company.
他们总是从自己公司的需要出发，考虑所有人都想要什么，以及什么最能解决问题。即使这意味着有点重新发明如何完成任务，这也非常有趣。他们在各个方面都这样做，例如管理他们的财务团队。最初，当我到达时，我想，这似乎很辛苦。有时候，传统的智慧很不错。但事实上，他们已经创建了一个非常独特的公司，他们需要非常独特的解决方案来实现这个公司的目标。
And they have also as a result attracted people who constantly questions the status quo and want to redefine their function, redefine their scope. And it pushes them to be better every day through constant situation, constant improvement, and never assuming that there's a right answer to anything, but always assuming that every day there's going to be a better answer and they're going to go after it, which I think is really just fascinating. Yeah. And you can see that in their products and the way they run the business.
他们也因此吸引了那些不断质疑现状、想要重新定义自己的职能和范畴的人。这种情况激励他们不断进步，不断改善，并且永远不认为某件事情有一个正确答案，而是总是假定每一天都会有更好的答案，他们会为之努力追求。我认为这非常有趣。是啊，你可以看到这种精神体现在他们的产品和经营方式上。
Last question for you. If you could go back to 2017 and talk to Fiji in 2017, what advice would you give yourself? Such a hard question. Tell Mark not to do the metaverse. It's a lot of billions.
最后一个问题，如果你能回到2017年，和当时的Fiji交谈，你会给自己什么建议？这个问题很难。告诉马克不要做元宇宙了，这需要大量的资金。
It's so interesting. I grew up in the south of France, in a family of fishermen, where I was the first one to have a graduate from high school. So I clearly was not destined to be here. And I kind of thought that I was really following my own path and my own unique band. But when I look back and I think about five years ago, I was still kind of playing the typical game, everyone plays, which is comparing yourself to other people, competing with other people.
真有趣。我在法国南部长大，家里人都是渔民。我是第一个从高中毕业的人。所以我显然注定不会在这里。我一直认为自己走的是自己独特的路。但是现在回顾五年前，我还是在玩那个大家都在玩的游戏，比较自己和别人，与别人竞争。
And since then, I've realized running your own race and being insanely competitive, but not against other people, but against what can be the best version of yourself, the best version of your company is actually so much better because the best gift we can give to the world is to unleash our own creative power. And I believe that if you're so anchored in comparison and competition, you're going to miss out on the thing that really makes you unique on your own creativity.
自从那时起，我意识到，独自奋斗并疯狂竞争，但不是与他人竞争，而是与自己成为最好的版本、公司成为最好的版本竞争，其实更好，因为我们能为世界献上的最好礼物就是释放我们自己的创造力。我相信，如果你过于在比较和竞争中扎根，你将错失自己独特的创造力，这是真正使你独特的东西。
And you actually see companies that are so focused on competition end up losing because they're just constantly trying to catch up instead of playing to their own unique difference. Obviously, the other extreme world you completely ignore competition is also not good. But I think especially in Silicon Valley, there is such a race to be just like a little bit better than the other guy, instead of really carving out your own paths, unleashing your own purpose and the purpose of your company that's probably the thing I would tell myself five years ago.
你其实能看到那些过度注重竞争的公司最终会失败，因为他们只是不停地试图追赶别人，而不是发挥自己独特的优势。显然，这个世界另一个极端是完全忽视竞争也不好。但我认为，特别是在硅谷，人们都在争先恐后地变得比别人更好一点，而不是创造出自己的道路，发挥自己的目标和公司的目标。这可能是我会告诉自己五年前的事情。
That's great advice, Dan Don. Well, thank you very much, Fiji, for coming today and sharing your wisdom. Give it a round of applause. Thank you so much, everyone. Thank you. That concludes this episode of Grey Matter. You can watch the video of this interview on our YouTube channel. And you can read an essay of the highlights on the content section of our website, greylock.com slash blog.
那是非常好的建议，Dan Don。非常感谢你今天来分享你的智慧，Fiji。请为她鼓掌。非常感谢大家。这就结束了本期的Grey Matter。你可以在我们的YouTube频道上观看此次采访的视频。你也可以在我们网站的内容部分，greylock.com/blog上阅读文章的亮点。
Both links are in the show notes. And if you aren't already a subscriber to Grey Matter, you can sign up wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Heather Mack. Thanks for listening.
两个链接都在节目注释中。如果你还不是 Grey Matter 的订阅者，可以在任何你获取播客的地方进行注册。我是 Heather Mack。感谢收听。