Why small companies are big in Japan
发布时间 2023-02-24 09:00:00 来源
Hello and welcome to Short Briefings on Long Term Thinking. Thanks for joining us. I'm Mark and Borthwick, Managing Editor at Bay the Gifford.
大家好，欢迎来到“长远思考简短简报”。感谢您的加入。我是Bay the Gifford的管理编辑Mark Borthwick。
When you think of Japan, conglomerates such as Sony, attach you in Mitsubishi, which have powered Japan's export growth for a generation, come to mind. You probably don't think of Shimaseki a manufacturer of automated knitting machines, Dessont, which owns licenses to use brands such as the Coxportif and Umbro, and Shoei, the maker of handmade motorcycle helmets.
当你想到日本时，就会想起像索尼、三菱这样的大企业，他们推动了日本出口增长达一代之久。你可能不会想到制造自动针织机的島津製作所，拥有使用Coxportif和Umbro品牌许可证的Dessont，以及手工制作摩托车头盔的Shoei。
The equivalent of Germany's middle stand, these small and medium-sized businesses are the beating heart of the Japanese economy. Japan has over 3.5 million small and medium-sized businesses, the employ about 7 in 10 workers in the private sector. These are the firms that are sometimes overlooked, but not by Proving Kumar, manager of Bay the Gifford Chinipon, who joins me in our Edinburgh studio.
这段话的意思是：对于德国中间层企业的相对应，在日本经济中，中小型企业是日本经济的中坚力量。日本有超过350万中小型企业，其中有70％的私营部门工人在这些企业工作。这些公司有时被忽视，但是Bay the Gifford Chinipon公司的经理Proving Kumar并没有忽视它们。他来到了我们爱丁堡演播室与我一同工作。
But before we start our conversation, some important information, please remember that as with all investments, your caps are at risk and your income is not guaranteed.
在我们开始对话之前，请记住以下重要信息：与所有投资一样，您的资金存在风险，您的收入不被保证。
Proving is great to have you back on Short Briefings on Long Term Thinking. Thanks for joining us. The last time we spoke was back in episode 8, when we chat about Japanese cosmetics.
感谢您再次加入我们的“长期思维简报”节目，很高兴见到您回来。我们上次谈话是在第8集，当时我们讨论了日本化妆品。
That's right, thanks for having me again. Welcome and you're right. The last time we had a chat was about Japanese cosmetics. And this time around, I felt it would be quite interesting to discuss this massive swath of SMEs that, as you say, are the beating heart of Japan's economy, and which, for a number of reasons, for a very long period of time, have just been overlooked, not just by overseas investors, but, finally enough, by a lot of domestic investors as well. So, they're there in lies or opportunity.
没错，谢谢再次邀请我。欢迎，你说得对。上一次我们聊的是日本化妆品。这一次，我觉得讨论这一大批中小企业会很有趣，正如你所说，它们是日本经济的中流砥柱，然而由于种种原因，在很长一段时间内，不仅是海外投资者，而且是许多国内投资者都忽视了它们。因此，机会就在这里。
So, let's start with some context. How do we define SMEs and why they're significant? So, there are a number of definitions. The one that we tend to use for simplicity is a company that has less than, say, 300-odd employees. If you want to speak in terms of the size by way of market capitalization, so we typically go for companies that are less than, say, one and a half billion dollars in market cap. So, those would be the ones that we would consider as being small or medium-sized businesses in Japan.
那么，让我们从一些背景知识开始。我们如何定义中小企业，并说明它们的重要性？有很多不同的定义，我们通常为了简便起见，使用的是员工数量少于300人的公司。如果你想以市值的方式来衡量公司规模，我们一般会选择市值低于15亿美元的公司。因此，在日本，我们认为这些公司都是中小型企业。
And when did we see the shift in Japan towards more of these small or medium-sized businesses? It's quite interesting because Japan has had sort of two waves of innovation. The first one was obviously when Japan started industrializing well before the first world war, so in the 1800s. And then obviously after the second world war, we had the second wave of industrialization when Japan was rebuilding as a result of the after-effects of World War II. And around that time, so all through the 60s, 70s and the 80s, a lot of that innovation, a lot of that rebuilding was led by some of the big corporates that we see today.
我们何时看到了日本向这些小型或中型企业的转变？这是非常有趣的，因为日本经历了两次创新浪潮。第一次浪潮显然是在日本在第一次世界大战之前工业化的1800年代。然后，在第二次世界大战后，我们有了第二次工业化浪潮，当时日本由于二战后遗症而进行了重建。在那个时候，也就是在60年代、70年代和80年代，大量的创新和重建都是由我们今天看到的一些大型公司领导的。
So just to give you some examples, the likes of Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi, Toyota, Honda within the automotive space. So these were all the bellwethers of the Japanese economy at the time. And they, in many cases, monopolized the R&D and the innovation that was happening in Japan at the time. But since then, we've seen a significant shift. And you could almost consider this to be the third wave of innovation that we're seeing in Japan, where a lot of Japanese companies have moved away from building these big, feasible products, these consumer electronics type products. And they've identified specific niches within these larger industries where they've suddenly realized that they have some in-house expertise built over the past many decades. And they've established leading global positions in these critical components of loss, many supply chains. So that is the shift that we've seen in the more recent decades, and which I think is a trend that is likely to continue over the next coming decades. So that's the shift from the large companies to these SMEs.
所以，只是举个例子，像索尼、东芝、日立、丰田、本田这样的公司在汽车领域内都是日本经济的风向标。当时，这些公司在很多情况下垄断了日本正在发生的研发和创新。但自那时以来，我们已经看到了一个重大的变化。你几乎可以认为这是我们在日本看到的第三次创新浪潮，许多日本企业已经开始转向专注于大型产品、消费电子产品的特定领域，并意识到他们在过去几十年中建立起来的一些内部专业知识。他们在许多供应链的关键组成部分上建立了全球领先地位的公司。这就是我们在最近几十年中看到的变化，我认为这是一个未来几十年是可能会持续的趋势。从大型企业向这些中小型企业的转变。
And I mentioned the little standard. A lot of people think of Germany when it comes to small, medium-sized enterprises. There are comparisons, aren't there, between how the economies of Germany and Japan have evolved over the years? That's absolutely right. And this is something that always has fascinated me, not just from a business perspective, but even from the point of view of the makeup of the economy, some of the cultural aspects, and say, for example, you know, savings rates, for instance, both Germany and Japan have tended to have quite high savings rates for instance. And also both have national champions in massive sectors like the auto sector, for instance. And also both had to do a bit of a significant rebuilding job of the country, the economy, post-World War II.
我提到了小标准。很多人想到德国当谈到中小企业。在德国和日本经济的演变方面有比较，对吗？没错。这是我的一个长期关注的话题，不仅是从商业角度，而且从经济结构、文化方面，比如储蓄率方面等等，德国和日本都倾向于具有相当高的储蓄率。同时，两国都在重要领域拥有国家冠军，比如汽车行业。而且两国都必须在二战后重新建设国家和经济。
So there are quite a lot of eerie parallels, I would say, even if you look at demographics, you know, they are sort of similar. Japan, perhaps maybe a bit more in the extreme end. But what really fascinates me when I look at Germany and Japan is just this entire swath of SMEs.
因此，如果您观察人口统计数据，您会发现许多令人不安的相似之处。日本也许是更极端的例子。但当我看德国和日本时，真正吸引我注意的是中小企业的整个领域。
Obviously, we have the middle-middle stand in Germany. We don't have a nice catching him for the Japanese SMEs. But these are, you know, the engine blocks, or the building blocks of corporate Japan and Germany. And the one slight difference is, whilst in Germany, a lot of these businesses tend to be private. In Japan, you do tend to see a lot of these SMEs, which are often run by founders and entrepreneurs that are listed, which, you know, is good news for us because that gives us an opportunity to identify and invest in these businesses.
显而易见，我们在德国拥有中小型企业的立足点。对于日本的中小企业来说，我们没有一个很好的抓手。但这些是日本和德国企业的引擎块或基石。一个微小的不同是，在德国，很多这样的企业往往是私人的。而在日本，你会看到许多这样的中小企业，它们通常由创始人和企业家运营，并列入了名单，这对我们来说是一个机会，可以发现和投资这些企业。
Music Give me some examples of these companies' product. Sure.
音乐 请给我这些公司产品的一些例子。当然。
So one of my favorite examples is that of a company called Shoei, which makes really high-end premium helmets. So I've got a catalog here, which can go through, I mean, some of the helmets look absolutely, you know, sci-fi futurist.
我的一个最喜欢的例子是一个叫做Shoei的公司，他们制造非常高端的高级头盔。我有一份目录在这里，可以翻阅，我是说，其中一些头盔看起来绝对像是未来科幻片中的道具。
Yeah. So a very, very simple product part, because the helmets are virtually handcrafted, and, you know, there is a bit of labor intensity to the way they make their helmets. These are very, very high-end products. They have a cult-like following, especially amongst the hardcore biking community globally. And they have a rapid-degrowing business in China, which is at a much earlier stage in terms of people embracing biking as a form of leisure, for instance.
是的，这是一个非常简单的产品，因为头盔基本上是手工制作的，你知道，他们制作头盔的方式具有一定的劳动强度。这些是非常高端的产品。在全球尤其是在骑车社区中，它们有着类似于狂热追随者的群体。他们在中国拥有快速发展的业务，因为在人们把骑车作为一种休闲方式的接受程度方面，中国的处于更早的阶段。
So the history of the company is very interesting, and this is quite typical of how entrepreneurs just end up, you know, starting up these businesses. So the founder of Shoei used to work at a traditional Japanese inn that was owned by his parents, and two of the most regular customers at that inn. One of them just so happened to be the founder of Honda. And at the time, obviously, he hadn't yet found it Honda, but he was a keen biker himself.
这家公司的历史非常有趣，这正是企业家经常开始创业的典型案例。Shoei的创始人曾在他父母拥有的一家传统日式旅馆工作，这家旅馆的两个最常见的客人之一恰好是本田公司的创始人。当时，显然，他还没有创办本田公司，但他自己是一位热衷于骑摩托车的人。
So, you know, after a round of biking with his friend, he used to come to this inn. And this guy apparently had a very, very nice, hand-crafted helmet with, you know, some nice paintings, and that caught the fancy of the founder of Shoei, who was, you know, quite young at the time. And they struck a very, very close relationship, and then this guy, the biker, went on to found to establish Honda, which, you know, as we know, is a big global company. And then the founder of Shoei established the company himself making helmets, so he decided to leave his parents in and start manufacturing helmets for bikes.
你知道吗，在一个骑自行车的朋友一起旅行后，他们经常会来到这家客栈。这个骑手显然有一个非常精美、手工制作的头盔，上面有一些漂亮的画作。这引起了Shoei创始人的注意，当时他还很年轻。他们建立了非常亲密的关系，然后这个骑手创立了本田公司。如我们所知，本田是一家大型的全球公司。而Shoei的创始人则开始自己制造头盔，决定离开他的父母，专门为自行车制造头盔。
And the friendship that they struck early on that continued through the years, so much so that Honda actually ended up adopting Shoei as the de facto helmet manufacturer for its own bikes. So, really, really interesting sort of back story to Shoei, which is now, you know, a big well-known global brand.
两人结下的友谊从最初开始，持续了多年。友谊深厚到本田公司最终将 Shoei 选为其自有摩托车的头盔制造商。这是 Shoei 的一个非常有趣的背景故事，而 Shoei 如今已是全球知名品牌。
I mean, looking through this magazine you brought in, these are very, very high-end helmets in terms of design and specificity.
我的意思是，看着你带来的这本杂志，这些头盔在设计和专业性方面都非常高端。
Is that typical of Japanese SMEs? That, in many ways, is what we see a lot of these SMEs do. And I'll give you an example.
这是日本中小企业的典型特点吗？在很多方面，我们看到很多中小企业都这样做。我举个例子。
Just with helmets, you think, you know, a helmet is a pretty standard product, you know, everyone's probably owned one during their lifetimes. But within that, what Shoei have done is, they've innovated in terms of the material that they use for the helmets, I mean, really robust, sort of lightweight material.
只是光戴上头盔，你可能会认为头盔是一个相当标准的产品，每个人生命中都可能曾经拥有过它。但在此基础上，Shoei做的是，在头盔材料方面进行了创新，采用了非常坚固、轻便的材料。
The biggest innovation they've done is, in terms of the amount of electronics that they've actually crammed into that helmet without compromising on the weight, on the comfort, and on the shape, which is again, quite important. And obviously, you know, safety is the key thing here.
他们最大的创新就是在不影响重量、舒适度和形状的情况下，将大量电子装入头盔中。而这些因素都是非常重要的。显然，安全是关键。
So, to give you an example, one of the recent models that they've launched, and there's a very nice video on YouTube of this model. It's called Optics On, OPTICSON. And they've developed almost like a supplementary mirror, which actually shows the rider a map, and you know, gives the rider very useful information in terms of what's the best route to take, and you know, you can even receive and make calls, just by voice control.
给你们举个例子，他们最近推出的其中一款模型叫做Optics On，你可以在YouTube上看到非常漂亮的视频。它们开发了一种几乎可以作为补充反射镜使用的设备，实际上可以向骑行者显示一张地图，并提供骑行者最佳路线的非常有用的信息，甚至可以通过语音控制接听电话和打电话。
So, there's a lot of innovation in that sense, that they've managed to build into this helmet, which is again, quite typical of how most Japanese companies tend to approach innovation. It's not necessarily a big bang, revolutionary new product, but with an existing products that can constantly trying to make it better, refine their manufacturing techniques and trying to, you know, end up with a premium product in that sense.
因此，在这方面有很多创新，他们成功地将其融入到这个头盔中，这也是大多数日本公司通常会处理创新的方式。这不一定是一个大爆炸，革命性的新产品，但是他们不断尝试着在现有产品上进行改进，精细化他们的制造技术，并试图最终获得一种优质产品。
And another company, which I thought was fascinating, is that we mentioned earlier, Shimizake, a manufacturer of automated netting machines.
还有一家我觉得很有趣的公司，就是我们之前提到的清水制作所，一家自动捕网机生产厂家。
Yes, that's absolutely right. And again, another example of a company that's pretty small, not that well known, even to a lot of investors in Japan, I must say.
是的，完全正确。再举一个例子，这是一家相当小的公司，对于许多日本的投资者来说，它并不太出名。
And they've developed this knitting machine. And to be honest, they've developed this quite a long time ago. It's not necessarily a recent innovation.
他们开发了这种针织机。说实话，他们已经开发了这个相当长的时间了，这不是最近的创新。
But what this machine does is you take the software design of whatever garment you want to make, you upload it to this machine, and it produces that entire garment in just one production run.
这台机器能做的是，你可以拿着你想制作的任何服装的软件设计，将其上传到这个机器上，它就可以在一次生产中制造出整件服装。
So it's like you're pressing a switch and the whole garment, whether it's a jumper or a pair of trousers, just comes out the other end.
就像你按下开关，整个衣物，无论是毛衣还是裤子，都会从另一端出来。
The traditional way of making those would be you manufacture the different bits first and then you stitch them.
传统的制作方法是先制造出不同的零件，然后再缝合它们。
And that stitching process involves, obviously, a degree of manual labor, but it also generates the most waste throughout that process.
那个缝制过程显然需要一定程度的人工劳动，但它也在整个过程中产生了最多的废物。
Because you've got to make sure all the different bits are fitting correctly, and then there's excess cloth and then you need to get rid of it.
因为你必须确保所有的零件都配合得正确，然后会有多余的布料，你需要把它清除掉。
So all of those issues are just completely taken away by this machine that Shima Seki developed.
所以，这台由瀬木志麻开发的机器完全消除了所有这些问题。
It's called a whole garment machine. And when you think in terms of reducing waste, impact on the climate, ESG, et cetera, something like this with its Shima Seki with its whole garment machine fits right in the middle of that.
这被称为整件衣服机。考虑到减少浪费、对气候的影响、ESG等方面，像这样采用了Shima Seki整件衣服机的东西是非常适合的。
And as we know, the appaller industry globally, in general, is among the largest producers of waste.
正如我们所知，全球的制造业普遍是废物生产量最大的行业之一。
So in its own small way, Shima Seki, I think, is addressing this issue.
我认为，岛关跟它的小小方式在关注这个问题。
And the other company that we talked about in the Instruction disont, I'm interested, I mean, a couple of European brands linked to that in terms of their distribution, Lakok Sportief and Umbro, and they have licenses for that, not just in Japan, but some other countries in the region.
在我们探讨的使用说明书中提到的另一家公司，我很感兴趣，我的意思是，欧洲的一些品牌与之相关，如Lakok Sportief和Umbro，在分销方面有许可证，不仅在日本，还在该地区的其他国家拥有。
How do Western sports brands perform in countries like Japan? Are they popular?
西方运动品牌在日本等国家表现如何？它们受欢迎吗？
So the Western brands in Japan, they are popular, but the overall market is still dominated by the Japanese brands. So if you talk about running, for instance, so brands like Asics, which is a Japanese company, they dominate the domestic market. All the likes of Nike and Adidas also have a decent share.
因此，在日本，西方品牌很受欢迎，但日本品牌仍然主宰着整个市场。例如谈论跑步，例如Asics这样的日本公司就是国内市场的主导者。但Nike和Adidas等品牌也有相当的市场份额。
But within that, if you break the overall market down into specific niches, you do have a lot of domestic Japanese brands almost dominating those niches.
如果您将整个市场细分为特定的细分市场，您会发现很多本土日本品牌几乎支配着这些细分市场。
And disont is a classic example, which in a way, we always say across Paley, if I suppose that we have a bias towards family run businesses, towards entrepreneurs.
并购尤为经典的例子是迪尚，从某种程度上说，我们总是在Paley的构架上谈及这一点，假设我们对家族企业、企业家有偏袒。
Disont is probably a slightly different example in the sense that it was for a long period of time run by the founding family.
Disont 可能是一个有些不同的例子，因为长时间以来它是由创始家族经营的。
意思是Disont是一个由创始家族经营了很长时间的公司，这使得它在某种程度上有所不同。
But they were so conservative in their business approach that it seemed to understand the changing nature of the industry, changing customer preferences.
他们在经营方式上非常保守，似乎不理解行业的变化及客户偏好的变化。
And over a period of time, that resulted in a significantly underperforming business, which resulted in a big trading company in Japan called Itochu coming in, taking a big stake in the business. And they basically got rid of all the family, founding family members and bought in their own professional management team.
在一段时间内，情况导致业务表现明显不佳，结果日本一家大型贸易公司伊藤忠入股。他们基本上清除了所有创始家族成员，并引进了自己的专业管理团队。
And that resulted in a significant turnaround of the business. But what Itochu have done apart from the management changes also focused the company's efforts on China, which is a massive market.
这导致了业务的重大转机。除了管理变革外，伊藤忠也将公司的精力集中在中国这个巨大的市场上。
So they've engineered a JV between Disont and one of China's largest sporting goods companies called Antasports.
所以他们构建了Disont和中国最大的运动品牌公司之一Antasports之间的合资企业。这意味着他们将共同经营此企业。
And Antasports is now helping Disont expand its brand through its considerable reach across China and helping them with advertising and marketing as well.
Antasports目前正在通过其广泛的覆盖面帮助Disont扩大品牌，并帮助他们进行广告和营销。
And within Shinnippon, you're very much focused on small and medium-sized business.
而在Shinnippon内，你非常专注于中小型企业。
When do small and medium-sized businesses become too big for your portfolio?
你的投资组合中，小型和中型企业何时会变得太大？
So for us, what is important is the starting point.
对我们来说，重要的是起点。这句话的意思是，对于我们来说，一个事情的开始是至关重要的。
When we invest, we specifically look for small-sized businesses. Typically, my sweet spot tends to be between the $300 to $500 million or $30 to $50 billion range.
当我们进行投资时，我们专门寻找小型企业。通常而言，我的投资最佳选择在3亿到5亿美元或30亿到50亿美元的范围之间。
That's the range in which we would typically like to take an initial holding.
这是我们通常希望在初始持股中选择的范围。
But for us, we are looking for companies that can generate really outsized returns for shareholders.
但对我们而言，我们正在寻找可以为股东带来真正超出预期收益的公司。
And when I say outsized returns, I don't mean two times or five times. I'm really talking of 10x, 20x over an extended period of time between five to 10 years.
当我说巨额回报时，我并不是指两倍或五倍的回报。我真正指的是在五到十年的时间内，出现10倍或20倍的回报。
Now, those businesses, you don't find them everywhere. They are very, very rare businesses, only a handful.
现在，这些企业并不随处可见。它们是非常非常罕见的企业，只有少数几个。
So to give ourselves the best chance of picking those types of businesses and more importantly, sticking with them, running our winners, we need to be very, very patient with them.
因此，为了让自己有最好的机会选择那些类型的企业，更重要的是坚持自己的选择并使得其成功，我们需要非常非常有耐心。
We need to minimize the amount of trading activity that we do, just because the shares have gone up a bit.
我们需要尽量减少交易活动的频率，仅仅因为股票升值了一点。意思是说，股票价格的微小波动并不应该成为我们交易的驱动力，应该用更长期、更稳定的目标来指导我们的投资策略。
You know, a lot of people would probably end up thinking in terms of taking some profits, etc.
你知道的，很多人可能会考虑卖出部分股份以获取利润等等。
We think slightly differently. So with that sort of an investment philosophy, we don't think it is an issue in terms of, you know, company getting big and then what do we do with that?
我们的想法略有不同。因此，基于这种投资哲学，我们不认为公司变得庞大后处理起来会有问题。
In fact, that is probably the result of a success. So we are happy to run our winners for as long as we think the growth opportunity is still there. Once that part of the investment case starts to weaken, once we start feeling that there is not much growth to be heard in the future from that point onwards, that would be the trigger for us to think about selling the shares. It's very rarely you got to do with market cap, any numbers around it. It's just the growth opportunity.
实际上，这可能是成功的结果。因此，我们很高兴为我们的赢家持续经营，只要我们认为增长机会仍然存在。一旦投资案例中的这部分开始削弱，一旦我们开始感觉到未来不会有太多增长，那就是我们考虑卖出股票的触发点。这很少与市值有关，与任何围绕它的数字无关。这仅与增长机会有关。
And you were in Japan recently, the first time that you've been back to Japan since the start of COVID, what was it like? Yes, so really, really pleased to finally get back to Japan. I think it's been almost three years. And the first thing that I struggled a bit was with jet lag, obviously I've lost a bit of practice. So took me a couple of days, but it was absolutely fantastic being back in Japan. I was there for two weeks during the course of which I met around 35 to 40 companies.
你最近去了日本，这是自COVID开始以来你第一次回到日本，感觉怎么样？是的，我非常高兴终于回到日本。我觉得已经有将近三年了。最开始我有点吃不消时差问题，毕竟我已经有一段时间没有这样的经历了。不过过了几天之后，回到日本真的感觉棒极了。我在那里待了两个星期，期间见了大约35到40家公司。
What was striking to me was unlike what we see in the popular press here in the UK. We get our daily dose of grim news about one thing or the other. The businesses, the companies that I met, the vast majority of them were reasonably optimistic. I would say sort of cautiously optimistic. And this wasn't just a feeling that things are better in Japan. And Japan has reopened to tourism. They've dropped a lot of requirements. But it was more rooted in just simple data. And looking at order books, looking at trends in the orders that a lot of these companies were receiving.
对我来说印象深刻的是，与英国流行媒体报道的形势不同。我们每天都会得到一些关于各种阴暗新闻的日常剂量。但我所见到的企业和公司，大多数都有相当乐观的态度。我会说他们有一种谨慎乐观的态度。这并不仅仅是因为日本的情况正在好转，而且日本正在重新开放旅游业，并放宽了很多要求。这种乐观情绪更多是根据简单的数据，如订单簿、很多公司收到的订单趋势等。
And also not just looking at short-term order trends, but a bit further out, say two, three years out. So Shoe, again, going back to the example of Shoe, their sales and profits have been growing exceptionally rapidly. Shoe sales and profits have absolutely exploded, mainly on the back of Europe and the US. So you can imagine why they would be quite sort of encouraged and optimistic. And especially when they're seeing the Chinese market open up, now that would really massively boost their already significant growth profile.
而且不仅仅看短期订单趋势，而是要看得更远一点，比如两三年以后。就像鞋子这个例子一样，他们的销售和利润增长得异常迅速。鞋类销售和利润绝对爆炸式增长，主要是在欧洲和美国市场的推动下。因此，你可以想象他们为什么会感到相当鼓舞和乐观。特别是当他们看到中国市场正在开放，这将极大地提高他们已经显著增长的业绩表现。
So that was the first thing that struck me. Most of the businesses, not really, too concerned about a lot of these external events. Business conditions remain very favorable. A lot of the companies, especially the manufacturers, remain brutally cost-comparative. And the second thing that struck me was, this is a more of a softer cultural aspect, was that every single person I met was wearing a mask.
这是我最先感受到的第一件事。大多数企业并不太担心外部事件。商业环境仍然非常有利。许多公司，特别是制造商，仍然非常注重成本竞争。第二件让我印象深刻的是，这是一种更柔软的文化方面，我遇到的每个人都戴着口罩。
So a lot of these company meetings, I was going into the first question I was asking, was please can I take my mask off? And in some cases, the executives who are actually quite happy that I asked that question, because they took their masks off as well. And one final point, if I may, there's a lot of regulatory change across a number of sectors that we're seeing. And a lot of these will be strong tailwinds for a number of companies to give you one quick example.
很多公司会议，我一进去就问的第一个问题是：“请问我能摘下口罩吗？”有时候，那些高管会很开心，因为我问了这个问题，他们也会摘下口罩。最后，我想说的是，我们看到了许多行业出现了大量监管变化。这些变化中，有很多对一些公司来说将是强有力的推动力。举个例子：
So within the real estate sector, the government has now liberalized the way in which real estate transactions take place. So previously, there was a big element of having paper-based contracts, having some face-to-face interactions with your broker or with your agent. All those have been taken away now. You can basically buy and sell or lease or rent a property completely online without meeting anyone. And if you want, we've not even seen the property, which is fantastic news for some of our holdings, which a company called GA Technologies, which is Japan's leading online real estate platform.
因此，在不动产领域内，政府现已放宽了房地产交易的方式。以前，纸质合同和与经纪人或代理人面对面交流是很重要的部分。但现在这一切都消失了。你可以完全在线上买卖、租赁或出租一处物业，甚至如果你愿意，我们也没有看到这个物业，这对我们的投资非常有好处，其中一家名为GA Technologies的公司是日本领先的在线房地产平台。
And do you have a go-to from when you're back in Japan and between these company meetings that you liked to do from a cultural perspective? Yes, so I think for investors or anyone who's going to Japan, Mike, kind of advice would be to spend as little time as possible in Tokyo. Because Tokyo is not at all completely representative of what's actually happening in the real economy. It's a bit like London, because London, it's almost a market unto itself. It says nothing about what's happening in the broader UK.
你回到日本，在这些公司会议之间，你有没有喜欢从文化角度做的事情？是的，我认为对于投资者或任何去日本的人，建议是尽可能少在东京逗留。因为东京完全不能完全代表实际经济中正在发生的事情。这有点像伦敦，因为伦敦几乎是一个市场本身，在更广泛的英国中没有多大代表性。
So my advice would be to actually go and travel. So I spent a day in Osaka, for instance. All that was a short trip this time around. I usually go to a few other places, not just to meet companies, but to get a feel for what's happening in the local economy, maybe visit a few stores, chat with a few non-investment people, things like, from your profession, welcome, you know, journalists, and a few academics. So that's, I think, gives one slightly more rounded view of what's happening in the real economy, rather than simply, you know, visiting Tokyo and going to conferences, which can be quite an artificial environment.
我的建议是去旅行。例如，我在大阪待了一天。这次旅行很短暂，我通常会去其他几个地方，不仅是为了会见公司，而且为了了解当地经济状况，或许会去几家商店，和一些非投资人员聊聊天，和你的行业相关的，比如欢迎记者和一些学者。我认为这样可以给人们更全面的了解实际经济状况，而不只是去东京参加会议，这可能是相当人为的环境。
Absolutely essential as well for an investor in SMEs, given that they're based all around Japan.
对于在日本各地投资中小企业的投资者来说，这也是绝对必要的。
Well, that's a great way to end the podcast, Provene.
“Provene，这是一个结束播客的好方式。”
Thanks very much for joining us on short-bree things on long-term thinking.
非常感谢你们加入我们的短期思考中探讨长期思考的话题。
No worries.
别担心，放心吧。
Thank you very much, Malcolm.
非常感谢你，马尔科姆。意思是对马尔科姆的感谢和谢意。
Thanks for investing your time in short-bree things on long-term thinking.
感谢你把时间投入到短期思考长远的事情中。
And you can find our podcast at www.belegifford.com, forward slash podcasts, or subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on Juneon.
您可以在www.belegifford.com上找到我们的播客，使用斜杠podcasts，或在Apple Podcasts、Spotify或Juneon上订阅。
And there are plenty other podcasts to choose from.
还有许多其他的播客可供选择。
Provene and I talked about Japanese cosmetics last time in episode eight, when we spoke together.
在第八集的时候，Provene和我一起谈论了日本化妆品。
Or if you want to find out and explore more about the innovative Scandinavian country that is an earth global giant, such as Ericsson, Spotify, and Akira, that's also there.
如果你想发现并探索更多关于创新的斯堪的纳维亚国家——地球上的巨人——例如Ericsson、Spotify和Akira，那也可以在那里找到。
What's its secret?
它的秘密是什么？
We'll find out by checking out our other podcasts.
我们可以通过检查我们的其他播客来找出答案。
And if you're listening at home, you're listening in the car, wherever you're listening, stay well.
如果你在家里听，或者在车里听，不管你在哪里听，保持健康。
I'm a look forward to bringing you more insights in our next podcast.
我期待在下一个播客中为你带来更多见解。
Thank you.
谢谢你。这是一句简单而客气的表达，意思是感谢对方所做的事情或给予的帮助。