The top-secret document leak panicking U.S. officials
发布时间 2023-04-12 20:48:24 来源
Okay, so you saw these documents, what was your reaction? And what do they actually look like? I was astounded to see these documents just staring at me face, you know, with the little discord markings of like, oh my god, I've used discord to play Call of Duty and now I'm looking at these classified documents that were just discussed in this open forum.
好的，你看到了这些文件，你有什么反应？它们看起来是什么样子？看到这些文件，我感到震惊，就像它们直接盯着我的脸一样，你知道，有着一些小小的不和谐标记，就像“天啊，我曾经用discord来玩使命召唤，现在我看着这些被在公开论坛上讨论的机密文件”。
Alex Horton is a national security reporter for the post. Over the last week, Alex has been looking closely at this trove of documents that contain secrets from the top tiers of the US government. Think classified intelligence briefings, spy strategies, sensitive information about how Ukraine is doing in the war against Russia. And it all took officials by surprise when they first appeared on a discord server, this chat platform typically used by gamers.
Alex Horton 是《邮报》的国家安全记者。在过去一周里，Alex密切关注了这批文件，这些文件包含了美国政府高层的秘密。可以想象，这些秘密包含了机密情报简报、间谍策略，以及有关乌克兰在与俄罗斯的战争中的敏感信息。当这些文件首次出现在 Discord 聊天平台上时，这让官员们感到非常意外，因为这个平台通常是被玩家所使用的。
So I think the reaction was, wow, this is substantial. And then it was, why do these documents look so strange? These are just printout of PowerPoints that you might do after like your college chemistry class. And they're like folded, haphazardly, they're crinkled. There's a coffee table in the background. So obviously someone held them in their hands, took their phone and just started snapping these images that are sort of a skew. It was just one of those.
我觉得反应是哇，这是很实质的东西。然后我想，为什么这些文件看起来那么奇怪？它们只是你大学化学课后可能会做的电子幻灯片的打印输出。它们是随意地折叠，弄皱了。背景里有一张咖啡桌。所以很明显有人拿着它们，拿起手机开始拍这些有点歪斜的图片。这只是其中之一。
Yeah, we're in very much a post-modern society where the highest closely guarded secrets of the US government are floating around a server popular for gamers.
是的，我们正在一个后现代社会中，美国政府最高度保密的秘密在一个流行于游戏玩家的服务器上流传。
From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm your guest host, Libby Casey. It's Wednesday, April 12th. Today, we're talking with Alex about this mysterious leak where it came from and how these intelligence secrets contradict the United States government's narrative about the war in Ukraine.
我是华盛顿邮报新闻室的主持人利比·凯西。今天是4月12日星期三，我们将和亚历克斯谈论这个神秘的泄漏，它从哪里来，这些情报秘密如何与美国政府有关乌克兰战争的说法相矛盾。
So Alex, what is in the leaked documents? There's a lot. I took some notes because I had to, I was bound to forget something, but when I walked in here. One of the more interesting things that, again, that we had indications of already was the level of penetration of US intelligence into Russian preparations for the war in Ukraine. Some of the documents talk about preparations that Russia is making for specific attacks, not just the time, but the place and how they will attack, what munitions they'll use, which shows that they are either getting it from human sources or they're intercepting communications that are discussing preparations for an attack.
亚历克斯，泄露的文件里面有什么？很多内容。我写了些笔记，因为我肯定会忘记一些东西。然而，有一些很有趣的事情，我们已经得到了一些迹象，其中之一就是美国情报机构渗透俄罗斯在乌克兰战争的准备工作的程度。一些文件谈到了俄罗斯正在为具体攻击做准备工作，不仅仅是攻击的时间，而且包括攻击的地点、如何攻击以及将使用何种武器，这说明他们要么从人类来源获得情报，要么是截获了讨论攻击准备的通信。
Can I just pause you there? So human sources were talking spies. We're talking people who are either leaking information from the Russians or who are placed there as spies.
我能不能请您先停一下？我们说的是人类情报员，不是指从俄罗斯泄露信息的人，而是那些被派到那里作为间谍的人。
That's right. But that sounds dangerous to release this information because that lets the Russians know that Intel is being gained.
对的。但是公开这些信息听起来很危险，因为这会让俄罗斯人知道情报正在被获取。
That's right. When you hear the jargon sources and methods, that's what you're talking about. You're talking about either people who are close to this information that's providing it to US intelligence officials, or it is a satellite or some sort of interception on radio or cell phones or other communication, maybe a computer network. Why that's important to safeguard is because if the Russians now know there is a vulnerability somewhere, they can go back and say, well, let's go back to who discussed that.
没错。当你听到术语“来源和方法”时，这就是你所讨论的。你所说的要么是向美国情报官员提供这些信息的与此信息密切相关的人，要么是卫星或某种对无线电、手机或其他通信方式的截获，也许是计算机网络。为什么要保护这一点很重要，因为如果俄罗斯人现在知道某个地方有漏洞，他们可以回去看看谁谈论了这个问题。
A particular attack in that particular time, reference in the documents and figure out how the Americans or NATO knows about it. That's the danger here and that's why this stuff is so explosive is because Russia and its intel folks can go back and look at, okay, where do we need to plug the holes? Sometimes those holes might be people.
在那个特定的时间里的一个特定攻击，在文件中有参考和找出美国或北约是怎么知道它的。这就是危险所在，这就是为什么这些东西如此爆炸性，因为俄罗斯及其情报人员可以回过头来查看，哦，我们需要在哪里堵漏洞？有时这些漏洞可能是人。
Are there more revelations beyond these kinds of spy strategies? The other one that we've reported on that I've seen myself is the perennial challenges that Ukraine has to sustain itself in a conventional artillery war. They're shooting thousands of rounds a day. They're shooting around every few seconds along the front. It's an incredible industrial effort to keep that war going.
这些间谍策略以外还有更多的启示吗？我们报道过的另一种情况，我亲眼看到的是乌克兰在传统炮火战中需要维持自己的永恒挑战。他们每天开火数千次，在前线每隔几秒钟就要开火。这是一个不可思议的工业努力来维持那场战争。
The documents have these counts where they predict when Ukraine will run out of certain munitions, which is a problem. It shows just how important this logistical train that every time the Biden administration says we have a new package going to Ukraine and it has so and so many shells. That is very important to make sure that that is always moving because if it stops, it becomes a big problem for soldiers in the line.
这些文件记录了预测乌克兰何时会耗尽特定弹药的数量，这是一个问题。这表明了后勤支援的重要性，每当拜登政府宣布我们会向乌克兰提供一批新的物资，并说明有多少弹壳时，这非常重要，确保物资始终运转，因为如果停滞不前，那对前线士兵来说将会是一个大问题。
Another enormous, enormous problem here is the Ukrainian ability to sustain its air defense. In the documents, it shows that there are certain munitions that Ukraine has that is provided by the West and when the US intelligence folks assess that they're going to run out of those munitions. There are some direct consequences to that. For example, once the Ukrainians run out of that, they're going to have to prioritize shooting down helicopters and planes. They can't afford to be shooting those drones that cost $20,000 with missiles that are very, very hard to come by. That provides opportunities for the Russians.
这里面另一个非常非常大的问题是乌克兰维持其防空的能力。据文件显示，乌克兰拥有一些来自西方的弹药，而美国情报人员评估到这些弹药会用完。这会有一些直接的后果。例如，一旦乌克兰人用完这些弹药，他们就必须优先考虑击落直升机和飞机。他们没有条件去用非常非常难以获取的导弹去对付那些价值20000美元的无人机。这就为俄罗斯提供了机会。
Alex, there's also information about other countries in these documents. How does that come into play? Yeah. That's the other side to this sort of diplomatic fallout. My talented colleagues ran a story a few days ago on one of the assessments that Egypt wanted to provide munitions to the Russians.
亚历克斯，这些文件中还有关于其他国家的信息。这会如何影响呢？是的。这是外交风波的另一面。我的有才华的同事们几天前发布了一篇报道，内容是埃及想向俄罗斯提供军火。
Egypt is one of the most important partners for the US in the Middle East. There's a long security assistance relationship that's gone on there. US provides a lot of equipment and funds for them. For that to secretly start to unravel a little bit and have this sort of relationship with Russia was important to highlight. That's important to note that they have denied that this occurred. But it goes to show that there are these diplomatic maneuvers that are happening way under the radar that everyone would prefer to keep quiet.
埃及是美国在中东最重要的伙伴之一。在那里，有着长期的安全援助关系。美国提供了大量的装备和资金支持。对这一关系开始悄悄瓦解，并开始与俄罗斯建立此类关系，这是非常重要的。值得注意的是，他们否认了此事。但这表明有这些外交机动正在发生，且每个人都希望将其保持安静。
There's been a global focus on the role of China and its relationship with Russia and how China could influence the war in Ukraine. So what about countries like that? There's an interesting sort of contour to that in the documents.
全球关注中国及其与俄罗斯的关系以及中国可能如何影响乌克兰战争。那么其他国家呢？文件中有很有趣的轮廓。
The US has been saying for some time that they didn't want to provide long range munitions to Ukraine, that they can then use to launch into Russia because that would escalate the conflict. And the question was, how would it? Since the beginning of Russia's war on Ukraine, the US has had to navigate wanting to help Ukraine's military without going so far as to provoke Russia into war.
美国一直在说，他们不想向乌克兰提供远程武器，因为这样会使冲突升级，他们可以把武器发射到俄罗斯。问题是，这会如何升级呢？自从俄罗斯对乌克兰发动战争以来，美国一直希望帮助乌克兰军队，但又不想激怒俄罗斯，以免引发战争。
President Biden making that clear. Are you going to send long-range rocket systems to Ukraine? We're not going to send to Ukraine rocket systems that he's striking to Russia. Now we know that one of their assessments is that strikes in Russia with NATO equipment could be then used to justify a widening involvement in China, that they might provide munitions, they might provide other support. That seems to have been the dynamic that the administration didn't really say publicly.
拜登总统明确表示，我们不会向乌克兰发送可以攻击俄罗斯的远程火箭系统。我们现在知道他们的一项评估是，用北约装备攻击俄罗斯可能会被用来为中国的更广泛参与提供正当理由，他们可能会提供弹药，他们可能会提供其他支持。这似乎是行政部门没有公开说的动态。
These documents help illuminate some of the public discussions around China, Russia, and Ukraine that the administration has made over the last couple months. In February, Secretary of State Blinken publicly warned China not to get involved in the conflict. This is about the same time when these documents are saying they've intercepted Russian intelligence discussing how China may become involved.
这些文件有助于阐明美国政府在最近几个月就中国、俄罗斯和乌克兰问题进行的公开讨论。二月份，国务卿布林肯公开警告中国不要卷入冲突。这时候这些文件所说的是，他们截获了俄罗斯情报机构讨论中国可能会卷入其中的情报。
So Alex, what is the US government saying about this? Everything from their awareness of them to the legitimacy of the documents. So when they talk about the documents publicly, they prefer to focus on the investigation on who leaked them. They've launched an investigation on there. They're working with the Justice Department to figure this out. Some national security experts I talked to said the consequences for this person are rather severe. This could be years in prison for whoever leaked it.
那么，亚历克斯，美国政府对此有什么说法？从他们的意识到文件的合法性，所有的事情都呈现出来。所以，当他们公开谈论文件时，他们更愿意专注于调查是谁泄露了这些文件。他们已经对此展开了一项调查。他们正在与司法部合作解决这个问题。我与一些国家安全专家谈过，他们说对于这个人的后果非常严重。无论是谁泄露的，都可能面临多年的监禁。
I mean, the head of the Intelligence Committee in the House has said they're a traitor. Yeah. We don't know this person's motivation. We don't know if this is to win an online argument about how the war is going. We have no clue to the motivations. They might be a Russian agent. We just don't know. When it comes to the legitimacy of the documents, some of my earlier questions to the Pentagon, after they reviewed them, there did appear to be a manipulation on one of the slides that downplayed Russian losses and artificially inflated the number of estimated Ukrainian losses.
我是说，众议院情报委员会的领导说他们是叛徒。是啊。我们不知道这个人的动机。我们不知道这是否是为了赢得有关战争进展的在线争论。我们对动机一无所知，他们可能是俄罗斯特工。我们只是不知道。就文件的合法性而言，我早些时候向五角大楼提出了一些问题，在他们审核后，某个幻灯片上似乎存在篡改，贬低了俄罗斯的损失，人为地提高了估计的乌克兰损失人数。
We are on the hunt for other manipulations and the other documents. But I think it's important to note that there are different waves of document releases that when we went in scraped from discord and from users who were in that server, that first batch was unaltered. Once they were bouncing around the internet for a while through Telegram, that's when it appears manipulation happened. There is the original unaltered primary documents I tend to call them. The ones that have been bouncing around. It depends on how upstream or downstream you are in scooping these up.
我们正在寻找其他篡改和其他文件。但我认为需要注意的是，有不同的文件释放浪潮，当我们从Discord和在那个服务器中的用户中爬取时，第一批文件未经改动。一旦它们通过Telegram在互联网上跳来跳去一段时间后，就会出现篡改。有些是我倾向于称之为原始未改变的主要文件。它们一直在跳动。这取决于您在收集它们时处于上游还是下游。
John Kirby, who's high up in the National Security Council, has said we don't know the extent of the leaks. At this point, do you believe the leak is contained? Are there more documents out there that have not been released publicly? Is this an ongoing threat? We don't know. We're true.
约翰·柯比是国家安全委员会高级成员，他说我们不知道泄露的范围有多大。现在，你认为泄露已经得到控制了吗？还有更多未公开发布的文件吗？这是一个持续的威胁吗？我们不知道。我们诚实。
What does that tell you? I think it tells me a couple of things. That they don't have an ability to go out there or maybe not even know where to look. I think it's maybe one issue. I also think that some of these discord servers are private. They can shut down. They can move somewhere else. There is no telling if there's going to be a constant trip trip or if we're just going to find one documents after this that are still bouncing around. There's no telling.
这告诉你什么？我觉得有几点。他们没有能力或者甚至不知道去哪里寻找。这可能是一个问题。我也认为一些 Discord 服务器是私人的。它们可以关闭。他们可以搬到其他地方。我们不知道是否会持续不断地发现新的文件或者只是发现那些还在转移中的文件。这是无从得知的。
After the break, we dive into the real world consequences of spilling this top secret intel, especially the effects this might have on Ukraine as it fights a grueling war. We'll be right back.
休息后，我们将进入泄露这个绝密情报的真实世界后果，尤其是这可能对乌克兰正在进行的艰苦战争产生的影响。马上回来。
So Alex, how does the information in the documents square with what the US government says about the war in Ukraine and also with what you've seen on the ground because you were just there a few weeks ago?
那么Alex，文件中的信息是否与美国政府对乌克兰战争的说法以及您几周前的现场观察相吻合呢？如果需要的话，请用中文重新表述。
It's more about how it doesn't square with what the US government is saying about the war in Ukraine.
这更多的是关于它与美国政府在乌克兰战争方面所说的话不一致。
I'm starting to get like Afghan stand vibes from the way that the Pentagon and the Biden administration have been talking about the war.
我开始觉得五角大楼和拜登政府谈论战争的方式有点像阿富汗站的氛围了。
They like to really underline the support in terms of billions of dollars or this critical system or this supply of ammunition, whatever the case may be, whether it's air defense, whether it's tanks, their line has been, we're giving the Ukrainians what they need when they need it through different faces of the war.
他们喜欢用数十亿美元、关键系统或弹药供应等方式真正强调支持，无论情况如何，无论是防空还是坦克，他们的立场是，我们通过不同战争阶段，在乌克兰人需要时提供他们所需的一切。
That's great. But it really doesn't underline the complexity of front that's hundreds of miles long and an industrial conventional artillery war that is both rooted in a World War I strategy mixed with like, almost like steam punk type weapons.
太好了。但是它确实没有突显长达数百英里的前线的复杂性，以及根植于第一次世界大战战略且混合了几乎类似于蒸汽朋克式武器的工业常规火炮战争。
And why I get these Afghanistan vibes is all the way up until people were falling off of airplanes in Kabul, the US government was talking about how well the Afghan security forces were doing how they were holding the Taliban at bay.
直到喀布尔市民从飞机上掉落之前，美国政府一直在谈论阿富汗安全部队的表现有多好，以及他们如何成功地挡住了塔利班。所以我为什么会有这种阿富汗的感觉。
It was just another, you know, we just had to keep on pushing and the strategy was working until everything fell apart.
这只是又一个例子，你知道的，我们只需继续推进，策略一直在奏效，直到一切崩溃。
I get the same feeling here because, you know, I did all my reporting out in Dombass on this, on this rotation.
我在这里有同样的感觉，你知道的，因为在我的那个轮换中，我所有的报道都是在顿巴斯进行的。
We went to visit a artillery battery that was firing missions into, into a buckmoop.
我们去参观一座正在向巴克姆普射击任务的炮兵阵地。
And after a while walking around their position, talking to other soldiers, I was like, where's all the western stuff?
走了一段时间，和其他士兵聊天后，我心想，这里的西方物品在哪里？
Where are the weapons that I've been hearing about for months on this beat?
这个地区几个月以来一直有传言说有武器，它们在哪里？
Surely I can find something and it was more about the absence than my ability to see their effect on the battlefield in what the Ukrainians are saying is the most important consequential part of the entire war.
我一定能找到某些东西，关键在于乌克兰人说的战争最重要的后果部分，而不是我的观察能力。
So when you're out there, you sort of get a more dire and immediate picture on what happens when they don't have the ammunition and the weapons that dependent on it saying it's flowing.
当你在那里的时候，你会更清楚地看到当他们没有弹药和武器的时候会发生什么，因为它们依赖于它的流动。
So freely.
请像中文为母语的人一样自由地翻译以下英文。如有需要，请随意改写。
I talk to a drone operator who was supporting those fired missions.
我和一个支持被解雇的任务的无人机操作员聊过话。
His job is to elevate above the city of Buckmoot, see where those artillery strikes are landing, radio back and say, you need to adjust this way or that way so they can be more accurate.
他的工作是飞到 Buckmoot 城上空，观察那些火炮攻击的落点，通过无线电回传并告诉他们需要调整方向以使攻击更准确。
This is a Ukrainian drone operator.
这是一个乌克兰的无人机操作员。
And we hear so much about the drones and the other radio communications that are being sent there.
我们经常听到关于那些无人机和其他无线电通讯设备被发送到那里的事情。
And he says, here's my drone.
他说：“这是我的无人机。”
It's Chinese.
这是中文。
I got it from AliExpress and from where? From AliExpress, which is sort of like the Chinese Amazon.
我是从AliExpress购买的，而AliExpress就像是中国的亚马逊一样。还想知道我是从哪里买的吗？就是从AliExpress啊。
So it's coming down to like a Chinese Amazon supplied war in this little corner where there are thousands of fatalities on either side.
所以，这就变成了在这个小角落里像中国亚马逊一样的战争，双方都有成千上万的死亡。
And I'm just standing there listening to this and I'm like, can someone get junker be done here and ask, you know, why they aren't getting the stuff that they need?
我就站在那里听着，心里想着，能不能找个废旧物品回收商来，问问他们为什么没拿到他们需要的东西。
When you actually walk the line there, you just kind of like, what's going on?
当你实际在那里走那条线的时候，你就会有点像，这是怎么回事呢？
Am I in the war that I hear about in the briefings or am I in my own earth too where there is actually a supply logistical problem?
我是不是被提要里所提及的战争所困扰，还是在我的地球上，实际上是一个供应物流问题？
And that is all reflected in these documents that they are having these problems with sustainment.
这些文件反映了他们在保持持续的过程中遇到的问题。
So how does Ukraine's military feel about these leaks?
乌克兰军方对这些泄密文件有什么想法呢？
You know, I think the government is upset about it.
你知道吗，我觉得政府对此很不满。
This raises questions about, you know, the trust between, you know, their allies on how they can safeguard this information.
这引发了一些问题，你知道的，关于盟友之间的信任，以及他们如何保障这些信息。
We talked to one official with the Ukrainian Air Force about the air defense issue and they said, you know, look, air defense in this in this conflict is mobile.
我们跟乌克兰空军的一位官员谈了谈防空问题，他们说，这场冲突中的防空是活动的。
We move around these sites.
我们在这些地点四处移动。
So where they are today, they're not going to be tomorrow.
今天他们在哪里，明天他们就不会在那里了。
So that's okay.
所以没问题。
And they didn't dispute that they're running low and that they don't really have a plan to keep them going when their inventory is running low because there isn't any left.
他们没有争议他们的库存不足，并且他们没有一个能让他们继续运营的计划，因为没有剩余的货物。
So they are acknowledging like pieces of the documents, but they are overall downplaying the significance, you know, saying, you know, this doesn't affect our counteroffensive plans.
所以他们承认这些文件像是一些碎片，但是他们总体上避重就轻，你知道的，说这不会影响我们的反攻计划。
We're going to strike where and when we want.
我们会在自己想要的时间和地点发起罢工。
And even if the Russians do the plan, we can change it, you know, at the last minute.
就算俄罗斯人执行这个计划，我们也可以在最后一刻改变，你知道的。
I think Russia is probably trying to figure out where they're going to launch their offensive.
我认为俄罗斯可能正在努力确定他们将在哪里发动攻势。
And, you know, these documents might help them and they might not.
而且，你知道的，这些文件可能会对他们有帮助，也可能没有。
They might have their own understanding based on their own intelligence of what Ukraine might do.
他们可能会根据自己的智力，对乌克兰可能会做什么有自己的理解。
But I think it's important for Ukraine to realize that maybe this is a good reminder that there's a lot of eyes on them from the US, from NATO and Russia and China.
但我认为乌克兰应该意识到，这也许是一个很好的提醒，来自美国、北约、俄罗斯和中国的很多眼睛都在他们身上。
This is a good reminder for them to really clamp down themselves and make sure the right people are reading the right information.
这是一个很好的提醒，让他们严格约束自己，确保正确的人看到了正确的信息。
Alex, where does the story go from here?
亚历克斯，这个故事接下来会发展成什么样？
What's next?
下一步是什么？
When it comes to this kind of information, I think not a lot of it is going to be a surprise to the Russians. They have their own intelligence apparatus. They've been plugged into Ukraine for years. They have their own agents in Ukraine. They might know a lot of this stuff. I think what's important and probably new to them is the US side of the collection.
说到这种类型的信息，我觉得对俄罗斯人来说，并没有太多的惊喜。他们拥有自己的情报部门，并且已经深度介入乌克兰多年。他们在乌克兰也有自己的特工，可能已经知道了很多这方面的东西。我认为对他们来说重要并且可能是新的是来自美国的情报收集。
Russia may come away with these documents and have insights into the way the US gathers information from either people or from secure communications. And maybe they start to address those shortcomings. Address could mean like if they find people who are providing information, you know, they could, they could, you know, jail them, they could kill them. It depends on who they are and what they've provided. They could start to limit access to secret and classified information amongst themselves, which makes it harder for the US to look for it. It makes it harder for the Ukrainian intelligence to gather that information.
“俄罗斯可能会获得这些文件，深入了解美国是如何从人或安全通信中获取信息的。也许他们会开始解决这些不足。‘解决不足’的意思是如果他们找到了提供信息的人，他们可能会监禁或杀害他们。这取决于这些人是谁以及他们提供了什么信息。他们可能会开始在内部限制对机密和分类信息的访问，这使得美国难以寻找这些信息。这也使得乌克兰情报机构难以收集这些信息。”
So what happens in the search for the leaker? And you just laid out some very real world consequences that could come from these documents. What if it's someone inside the US government? So what is likely happening right now is the Justice Department, depending on other agencies, are probably scouring meetings, schedules to see who had access to these particular documents. These are, look to be pages from a briefing book for the joint staff, which is, you know, General Mark Milley. So that means there's not a tremendously big universe of people that would have access to these. But, you know, once they identified this person, you know, one expert told me, you know, very plainly, they're in for a world of work.
那么，在找出泄密者的搜索中会发生什么呢？你刚刚阐述了可能会从这些文件中产生的一些非常真实的后果。如果泄密者在美国政府内部怎么办？现在可能正在发生的情况是，司法部根据其他机构的情况，正在搜查会议和日程表，查看谁有权访问这些特定的文件。这些看起来是联合参谋团的简报书中的页面，即马克·米利将军的简报书。这意味着那些能够访问这些文件的人数并不是非常大。但是，一旦他们确定了这个人，一个专家就告诉我，非常明显地，他们将会面临一系列繁重的工作。
Because I see the consequences as like this sort of like expanding star that will continue to grow because some of the disclosures in these documents affect, you know, different classifications, they reveal different classified programs and abilities of the US that, you know, it's possible that the Russians and maybe the Chinese didn't know about. And now they do. And maybe that gives them pieces to go on.
因为我看到后果像一个不断扩张的星星，继续成长，因为这些文件中的一些披露涉及不同的分类，揭示了美国不同的分类计划和能力，可能俄罗斯人和可能中国人不知道。现在他们知道了。也许这给了他们一些线索。
The Intel world works on pieces like a mosaic. And they put together this thing and that thing. And then after a while, they started to build something that they can stand back and say, okay, now we understand this complete picture. That's why these disclosures can be damaging in ways we can't even anticipate yet. Because these slides and this, the context and the way these things were gathered, this information was put together might be a puzzle piece that the Chinese and the Russians can now go back and look at all the other stuff that they've collected over the years and say, aha, now I understand this better.
英文原文：The Intel world works on pieces like a mosaic. And they put together this thing and that thing. And then after a while, they started to build something that they can stand back and say, okay, now we understand this complete picture. That's why these disclosures can be damaging in ways we can't even anticipate yet. Because these slides and this, the context and the way these things were gathered, this information was put together might be a puzzle piece that the Chinese and the Russians can now go back and look at all the other stuff that they've collected over the years and say, aha, now I understand this better.
中文翻译：情报界的工作有点像拼图。他们把这个碎片和那个碎片组合在一起。然后过了一段时间，他们开始构建一个完整的画面，可以站在远处说：“好的，现在我们理解了整个图片。”这就是为什么这些披露方式可能会造成我们尚未预料到的损害。因为这些幻灯片以及收集这些信息的方式和背景，可能是中国人和俄罗斯人现在可以回头看看他们多年来收集的所有其他东西的一个拼图，他们可以说：“啊哈，我现在更好地理解了这一点。”
Alex, thank you so much for laying this out for us and for bringing your notebook. I can talk to us through it. Yeah, thanks, Lebi, for having me. And yeah, this notebook is continuing to grow. Alex Horton is a National Security Reporter for the Post.
亲爱的Alex，非常感谢你给我们讲解并带来笔记本。我可以通过笔记本跟大家交流。谢谢你来参加，Lebi。这个笔记本还在不断扩充。Alex Horton是《华盛顿邮报》的国家安全记者。
That's it for Post Reports. Thanks for listening. Today's show was produced by Ariel Plotnik. It was edited by Rina Flores and mixed by Sean Carter, thanks to Ben Palker. If you want to show your appreciation for the show, please subscribe to the Washington Post. It's a great way to support the work we do. And you get access to all the incredible reporting our colleagues do every day, including all the latest updates on what these document leaks contain. Go to WashingtonPost.com slash subscribe.
这就是《后报告》的全部内容。谢谢收听。今天的节目由Ariel Plotnik制作，由Rina Flores编辑，由Sean Carter混音，多亏了Ben Palker。如果你想表达对节目的感激之情，请订阅《华盛顿邮报》。这是支持我们工作的绝佳方式。而且你可以获得我们同事每天发布的所有令人难以置信的报道，包括这些文件泄漏所含的最新更新。请前往WashingtonPost.com /订阅。
I'm Lebi Casey. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.
我是莱比·凯西。我们明天会带来更多来自《华盛顿邮报》的新闻故事。