The Diddy Trial: Why is Sean Combs being tried like a mob boss?

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To warning, we will be discussing sex, sexual assault, drugs, and violence in this episode. Now we're speaking on Friday morning and you were in court this week. We heard from former employees of Combs and other alleged victims. And so I'm just wondering out of all of that, what really stuck out in your mind from the testimony this week? This stuck out to me was how much of this week's testimony really corroborated stuff that Cassie Ventura had said on the stand. This is audio producer Sabi Robinson and reporter Anne Brannigan. They've been reporting from the federal courthouse in Manhattan, where Sean Diddy Combs is on trial. The music mogul is charged with five criminal counts of racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking, and transportation to engage in prostitution. He has pleaded not guilty. If convicted, he could face up to life in prison.

警告：我们将在本集讨论性、性侵犯、毒品和暴力等话题。现在是周五早上，我们的话题转到你本周在法庭上的经历。我们听到了Combs的前雇员和其他声称受害者的证词。所以我想知道，在所有这些内容中，哪部分对你来说印象最深？让我印象深刻的是，本周的证词中有很多内容验证了Cassie Ventura在证人席上所说的话。这是音频制作人Sabi Robinson和记者Anne Brannigan的报道。他们一直在曼哈顿的联邦法院进行报道，那里正举行Sean Diddy Combs的审判。这位音乐大亨被控五项刑事罪名，包括勒索阴谋、性交易和利用交通工具进行卖淫。他已表示无罪。如果罪名成立，他可能面临终身监禁。

At the end of this third week of testimony, Sabi and Anne reflected on the people who took the stand and how their testimony compared to that of the government star witness, Cassie Ventura. Ventura is a singer and Combs' ex-girlfriend, and she had talked about years of abuse, including, she says, being forced to participate in freak-offs, which were days long sex parties with male escorts. So we had a few people, a couple personal assistants who used to work for Combs, one celebrity stylist who was employed through Bad Boy. Talk about instances of physical violence that they witnessed Cassie Ventura experience. We had the celebrity stylist, a man named Deontane Ash, talk about Cassie not wanting to go to a freak-off. They also spoke quite a bit about the sort of force and coercion they personally felt as employees of Combs.

在第三周的证词结束时，Sabi 和 Anne 回顾了那些作证的人，以及他们的证词与政府明星证人 Cassie Ventura 的对比。Ventura 是一位歌手，也是 Combs 的前女友。她谈到了多年来遭受的虐待，包括她所说的被迫参与“怪异派对”，这些是历时数天、与男性陪同者参加的性派对。我们听到了几个人的证词，包括以前为 Combs 工作的个人助理以及曾在 Bad Boy 工作的明星造型师。他们讲述了目睹 Cassie Ventura 经历的肢体暴力事件。那位明星造型师，一位名叫 Deontane Ash 的男士，还谈到 Cassie 并不想参加“怪异派对”。他们也大量提及作为 Combs 的员工，个人感受到的压迫与胁迫。

So this ranges from physical and sexual abuse in the case of Mia, Mia being a pseudonym. And she related a few instances, but she made clear that there were more and that she couldn't remember all of them. But the celebrity stylist and another assistant named Capacorn Clark also talked about intimidation, you know, physical assaults they experienced at the hands of Sean Combs. Also, the women talked about repercussions they feared if they ran afoul of his wishes and of the professional rewards if they remained loyal and did the things that he wanted them to do. I think one of the things that really stood out to me this week that we also saw from former employees that have testified before is just how complicated this relationship with Combs is. How they were talking about the affection they had towards him, and I wonder what impression that's left on you.

在这个案例中，以化名“米娅”指代的受害者讲述了遭受身体和性虐待的经历。她提到了几次具体的事件，但明确表示还有更多她无法记住的经历。此外，著名造型师和另一位名叫卡帕科恩·克拉克的助理也谈到了他们经历过的来自肖恩·库姆斯的恐吓和身体袭击。这些女性还提到，如果她们不遵从他的意愿所担心的后果，以及如果她们保持忠诚并做他希望的事情所能获得的职业回报。本周让我印象深刻的是，以前曾作证的前员工们也提到过，与库姆斯的关系是多么复杂。她们谈论对他的感情，我想知道这些叙述给你留下了什么印象。

I found it really striking because we're talking about racketeering conspiracy, and so these employees and their accounts and their recollections are incredibly important to either corroborate or undermine the government's case and to lay out this picture of what it was like to work for Sean Combs, a man who they describe as an icon, as an authority figure, as someone they loved and respected but very clearly feared, right? And they described a range of ways that he would punish them, right? And he had described being put on leave without pay for going to a party with Cassie Ventura, a party at Princess House. And so it's this really complicated relationship where there's this reverence, but also this fear. And we're seeing a condensed version of what is the years of experiences like in this environment.

我发现这非常引人注目，因为我们在讨论的是敲诈阴谋，这意味着这些员工及其账户和回忆对于支持或削弱政府的诉讼至关重要。他们描述了在肖恩·康姆斯手下工作的情况，他是他们眼中的偶像、权威人物，是他们爱戴和尊重但又显然害怕的人。他们还描述了他惩罚他们的各种方式。其中一位描述过因为和卡西·文图拉一起参加在公主家举办的派对而被停职且不发工资的情况。因此，这种关系非常复杂，既有尊敬也有恐惧。我们看到的是一种浓缩版的多年工作经验在这样的环境中的体现。

From the newsroom of the Washington Post, this is Post Reports. I'm L.I.E. Zadi. It's Friday, May 30th. Today, we're continuing our coverage of the trial of Sean Combs, also known as Diddy, Puff, Puff Daddy. We'll be bringing you episodes most Fridays. If you have them in keeping up with this case, our latest episodes go over the testimony from big witnesses the government is calling, including Combs' ex-girlfriend, Cassie Ventura.

来自《华盛顿邮报》新闻间，这是Post Reports。我是L.I.E. Zadi。今天是5月30日，星期五。今天，我们将继续报道肖恩·库姆斯（又称Diddy、Puff、Puff Daddy）的审判。如果你一直在关注这个案件，我们的最新一期节目详细介绍了政府传唤的重要证人的证词，包括库姆斯的前女友卡西·文图拉。我们的节目大多数星期五更新。

But in today's episode, I wanted to do something a little different. Ann and Saby already caught us up with the major takeaways from trial this week, but for the rest of the episode, I'm trying to another colleague of mine, Federal Courts reporter Shana Jacobs. Even before this trial started, I've had a lot of questions about the specific charges being brought against Combs. Like why is he being charged with racketeering conspiracy? Isn't that usually something the mafia gets?

在今天的节目中，我想做点与众不同的事情。Ann 和 Saby 已经为我们总结了本周庭审的主要要点，但在接下来的节目中，我会采访我的一位同事，联邦法院记者 Shana Jacobs。即使在审判开始之前，我就对提控 Combs 的具体罪名有很多疑问。比如，为什么他被指控犯有敲诈勒索罪？这罪名不是通常只用在黑手党身上吗？

Or why isn't he being charged with some of these other things that have come up, like assault? As the trial has gone on, I keep coming back to these questions. So today, I thought it'd be helpful to take a step back and really unpack the legal framework around Combs' trial. So we can really understand the testimony we're hearing. Hi Shana, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me.

或者，为什么他没有因为那些其他出现的问题被指控，比如攻击罪？随着审判的进行，我总是回到这些问题上。所以今天，我觉得退一步好好解开关于科姆斯审判的法律框架会很有帮助。这样我们就能真正理解我们听到的证词。嗨，Shana，非常感谢你今天加入我。谢谢你邀请我。

You're someone who's been covering the justice system for a while. We've covered many federal trials for the post. And today, I wanted to take some time to go over the charges in this case and also ask you about how both the government and defense side are doing in terms of proving or disproving these charges so far. So Shana, I thought we could start with the racketeering conspiracy charge. This is one we've talked about on the podcast already and we broadly understand it as it's illegal to have an enterprise or organization conspired to commit a bunch of illegal acts.

你是一个报道司法系统已有一段时间的人。我们为报纸报道了许多联邦审判。今天，我想花些时间来讨论这个案件的指控，并想询问你关于政府和辩护方在证实或否证这些指控方面的表现。Shana，我想我们可以从敲诈勒索共谋指控开始。这是我们在播客中已经谈过的内容，我们大致理解为，在一个企业或组织中共谋进行一系列非法行为是违法的。

But this is a pretty complicated charge and a lot of the testimony seems to be speaking to it. So I'd love to do a bit of racketeering 101. So first, Shana, just what does racketeering encompass? It's a broadly encompassing law that covers a wide range of criminal activity from, as we see now, you know, sex trafficking, forced labor type allegations to classical organized crime, the mob, the mafia, street gangs, drug gangs. I mean, it runs the gamut.

这是一项相当复杂的指控，而且很多证词似乎都在围绕这个问题展开。所以我希望能简单介绍一下什么是敲诈勒索（Racketeering）。首先，Shana，敲诈勒索具体包含什么？这是一项范围广泛的法律，涵盖了从性交易、强迫劳动等指控到传统的有组织犯罪，比如黑帮、黑手党、街头帮派、毒品团伙等各种犯罪活动。可以说，它涵盖了各种类型的犯罪。

The actors have over time figured out how to apply it to a variety of just criminal networks that are organized in some fashion. And in this case, that organization starts with Shandady Combs and it encompasses the people surrounding him from his employees to the people who are just supporters in his network. The theory is that they are all working to serve him and to carry out, in this case, his sexual desires, but to carry out his criminal activity for him, with him and for him.

随着时间的推移，这些参与者逐渐学会如何将其应用于各种有一定组织形式的犯罪网络。在这种情况下，这种组织形式从尚达迪·康姆斯（Shandady Combs）开始，涵盖了围绕他的人，包括他的雇员以及仅仅是他网络中的支持者。理论上来说，他们都在为他服务，并在这种情况下满足他的性欲，同时也为他执行犯罪活动，与他一起进行并为他效力。

And I feel like I keep hearing about racketeering charges in the news over the last few years and a lot of different types of cases. Like, there was Donald Trump in Georgia and also the rapper Young Fug and his associates of his record label also in Georgia. And I'm just hearing racketeering being used in all these different situations. Is racketeering being used more broadly now? There is a sense that it is being used more broadly now.

在过去的几年里，我觉得总是在新闻中听到关于敲诈勒索指控的报道，这种指控出现在各种不同的案件中。比如，唐纳德·特朗普在佐治亚州被指控，还有说唱歌手Young Thug及其唱片公司的关联人员也在佐治亚州面临类似指控。我发现敲诈勒索这个词在不同情况下被频繁提及。现在敲诈勒索的应用范围是不是更广了？确实有一种感觉，敲诈勒索越来越广泛地被使用。

It is a quite invaluable tool for the government because of how creative you could get with it and because of how broad, because of how encompassing your case can be. So you can bring in a wide variety of people. You can bring in a wide variety of crimes. In some cases, you don't even need to really prove the crimes beyond reasonable doubt. So if you have an organization of some type, whether it is a mafia or a gang or whether it is, you know, people in an inner circle of an influential person, you can bring it there if you want to.

这是一种极其宝贵的工具，对政府而言非常有用，因为它的应用非常灵活和广泛，能够涵盖各种情况。从而可以将各种各样的人和犯罪行为纳入其中。在某些情况下，甚至不需要做到超越合理怀疑来证明犯罪行为。所以，如果你有某种类型的组织，不论是黑手党、帮派，还是有影响力人物的核心圈子，只要你有需要，都可以利用这个工具去对付他们。

Oh, that's really fascinating. So it's this idea that there is a network of people who are charged with tasks that enable criminal activity. Yeah. And it's about the agreement, too. The government is going to try to show that there is an agreement among these people to support criminal activity is really where this is going. And so, Shayna, in this case, it's racketeering conspiracy, right? How is that different from charging someone with just racketeering? What's the difference?

哦，这真的很有趣。就是说，有一群人建立了一个网络，他们负责执行一些任务来帮助犯罪活动。是的，这还涉及到一种协议。政府会试图证明这些人之间存在一种协议，以支持犯罪活动的进行。这就是问题的重点所在。那么，Shayna，这个案件中是说敲诈勒索阴谋，对吧？这和直接指控某人敲诈勒索有什么不同呢？有什么区别？

So, I mean, I think the racketeering conspiracy is more about the agreement in the organization. You've got to establish that the system was in place as opposed to everyone involved was beyond reasonable doubt doing everything that you're accusing them of. Of course, you're still accusing them of these things, but it's just a slightly different standard. I see. So it's like you just have to prove that they agreed to do this rather than it was established in operating.

所以，我的意思是，我认为敲诈勒索的共谋主要在于组织中的协议。你需要证明这个系统确实存在，而不是每个人都在毫无疑问的情况下做了你指控的所有事情。当然，你还是在指控他们做了这些事情，但标准稍有不同。我明白了，所以你只需要证明他们同意要做这些事情，而不是证明这些事情已经在运行当中。

That is generally the case, right? You're proving that this agreement existed. They do not have to fully prove the criminality itself. In reality, the jury needs to see that criminality was happening. How else will they know that there was an agreement to carry out criminality? So that's, I mean, in practice, the government is going to try to show that and that's clearly what they're doing here. I mean, the violence, the sexual abuse, the rape, the drugs, so they have to really support the conspiracy and the agreement with evidence of criminality.

通常情况确实是这样的，对吧？你现在要证明这个协议的存在。他们并不需要完全证明犯罪行为本身。实际上，陪审团需要看到犯罪确实发生了。否则他们怎么会知道有一个执行犯罪的协议呢？因此，实际上，政府会努力展示这一点，这也是他们在这里明确要做的。我是说，像暴力、性侵、强奸、毒品等，他们必须用犯罪证据真正支持共谋和协议的存在。

So this is the part I don't always understand when we're talking about racketeering charges. It's also referred to as RICO. Why is it that combs would be charged with this racketeering or racketeering conspiracy, but not the criminal activity itself? Like I'm not seeing charges against combs for arson, assault, drugs, all these other things. But if the government is saying, look, he had an enterprise to enable criminal activity. Why aren't they charging him with the criminal activity itself?

这就是我在谈到敲诈勒索指控时常常不明白的地方。这种指控也被称为RICO法案相关指控。为什么Combs会因为敲诈勒索或敲诈勒索阴谋被起诉，却没有被指控具体的犯罪活动呢？比如，我没有看到针对Combs的纵火、袭击、毒品等指控。但是，如果政府说他建立了一个组织来促进犯罪活动，为什么他们不直接指控他参与了这些犯罪活动呢？

Well, they are. That's, I think, with the sex trafficking and the prostitution charges are about. So they are supporting it. They may not be charging with absolutely everything. I don't know exactly what their thinking was, but it's possible they just went with what they were completely sure about. There's a very nuanced analysis that goes into it. So it could be that they don't feel they could prove certain charges, certain counts, or it could be that this is strategic.

好的，他们确实如此。我认为，这与性贩运和卖淫的指控有关。所以他们是在支持这个指控。他们可能并没有指控所有的罪名。我不太清楚他们的想法，但有可能他们只是选择了自己完全有把握的指控。这中间有非常复杂的分析。因此，也可能是他们觉得无法证明某些罪名，或者这是一种策略。

This is like, let's give the jury the most, can say, sample of things. Also, if the top chart is carry a stiff enough sentence and that's what you're going for, you don't really need to pile on. I see. I see. I mean, you're going to get a significant prison sentence on the top count most likely, in any case. So I mean, there's not necessarily a need to have so many more conviction counts on top of it.

这就像是，我们要给陪审团提供一个可以说是各种事情的样本。此外，如果最严重的指控已经可能带来足够严厉的刑罚，而这正是我们的目标，那么就不需要再增加其他指控。我明白，我明白。我是说，你很可能已经会因为最严重的指控而获得一个重刑。所以，实际上没有必要再增加那么多额外的定罪项。

And so how exactly do prosecutors successfully argue rackitarian conspiracy? Well, I think you bring in all of these people like they're doing now who are talking about what others did to enable Sean Cump's. I mean, you bring in, you know, for instance, Capricorn Clark, his former personal assistant also had worked for him in several other capacities over the years, who says she was kidnapped by combs in that during various confrontations threatening violence.

那么，检察官究竟如何成功地论证敲诈勒索罪的共谋呢？嗯，我认为，你可以像现在这样，找来一些人，他们会讲述别人为了支持肖恩·科姆斯（Sean Combs）所做的事情。比如，你可以找来像他的前私人助理卡普里康·克拉克（Capricorn Clark）这样的人，她多年在不同岗位上为他工作过，并声称她在各种对峙中被科姆斯绑架并受到暴力威胁。

So I mean, she's helping to establish that there's people in his circle who are supporting and enabling his crimes. You know, for instance, some of the male escorts who testified, they're talking about the violence that they witnessed. So I mean, there's, it's very nuanced at times, but you're trying to show things like coercion, post-innosexual and non-sexual capacity, and you're trying to establish this layer below what's happening at the top.

我的意思是，她正在帮助确认他周围的人在支持和纵容他的犯罪行为。比如，一些作证的男性陪同人员，他们谈到了自己目睹的暴力。所以有时候事情相当复杂，但你需要展示的是像胁迫这类的行为，无论是在性方面还是非性方面，你都在试图揭示表面之下的事实真相。

Because so far the testimony that we've been talking about on the show and the evidence, it's prosecutors attempting to paint this picture that combs is sitting atop, one person used combs as kingdom. You know, this idea that he's directing and everyone, his employees and others are deferring to him and carrying out all these tasks and activities on his behalf. Right. Like a mob boss, essentially.

到目前为止，在节目中我们讨论的证词和证据显示，检察官试图描绘这样一种画面：Combs处于权力的顶端。有人将Combs形容成一个王国的统治者，他在指挥一切，员工和其他人都对他言听计从，代表他执行各种任务和活动。基本上，就像一个黑帮老大一样。

Yeah. And as just a reminder, we are still in the part of the trial where the government is presenting their case and the defense will have an opportunity to call witnesses and dig in further beyond just cross-examining the witnesses, the government is calling. But based on what you've seen so far in the courtroom and during this trial, Shayna, how do you think the defense will try to counter this narrative that Shondady Combs, you know, was top of this enterprise, or had people agree to commit acts of criminality on his behalf or enable criminality?

好的。我来总结一下： 现在我们还处于审判的阶段，这部分是由政府来呈现他们的案情，之后辩方将有机会进行更深入的辩护，不仅仅是对政府传唤的证人进行盘问。根据你在法庭上和审判过程中所看到的情况，Shayna，你认为辩方将如何反驳这个叙述，即Shondady Combs是这个企业的头目，或者是他让别人同意为他犯下犯罪行为或帮助犯罪？

I think a big part of it is to try to show that there was no criminality happening. That is where in the defense opening statements we heard, while the conduct involved in the case may have been domestic violence, it didn't amount to sex trafficking and it certainly didn't amount to recurring conspiracy that centered on sex trafficking and prostitution. Those things were consensual. The women who are part of the case were there for freak-offs voluntarily with consent.

我认为这很大程度上是为了证明没有犯罪行为发生。这就是为什么在辩护方的开场陈述中，我们听到了这样的内容：虽然案件中涉及的行为可能是家庭暴力，但这并不构成性交易，更不构成以性交易和卖淫为中心的反复串谋。这些事情都是双方自愿的。案件中的女性是自愿参与这种冒险活动的，并且都是在同意的情况下进行的。

Breaking down that is, I think, a big part of their strategy. And if you can interfere with the idea that there was any crime happening, you have less of a burden breaking down whether there was an organization or not. If there are no crimes happening, there's no organization to support it. So I mean, cast out on some of these accounts. Some of these things happened 20 years ago. It is people's memories as we know are not always so solid.

这可以说是他们策略的重要一环。如果你能让人们怀疑是否真的发生过犯罪，那么去分析是否有某个组织存在的难度就减小了。如果没有犯罪发生，就没有组织在背后支持。所以，我的意思是对其中一些说法产生怀疑。这些事情有些发生在20年前。众所周知，人们的记忆并不总是可靠的。

So I mean, that's one of the things they may go after. They may try to show that these people were just, if they were doing anything at all, if they were really threatening victims on coves as behalf, if they were really setting fires to people's cars or whatnot, that they were acting on their own or that they just didn't do it at all. Oh, and that the car thing is referencing the car explosion that rapper Kid Cudi, who's really Miss Scott Mascady, testified about and we talked about the car explosion on last week's episode. Yeah. The defense is likely going to argue whether Miss Scottie's car was set on fire or not. It had nothing to do with coms and that they can't pin it to coms or any of his associates.

这段话的意思是，他们可能会试图证明这些人如果真的做了什么，也只是个人行为，而不是在替他人行事。他们可能会辩称，这些人如果真的威胁受害者或者放火烧车，那也是他们自己决定的，或者根本没做过。而关于烧车事件，这里提到的是上周我们讨论过的案件，即说唱歌手Kid Cudi（真实姓名是Scott Mascady）作证的汽车爆炸事件。辩护方可能会争辩，不管Mascady的车是否真的被烧了，这件事与相关方无关，他们不能把责任推到相关方或其关联人员身上。

It depends on how the evidence is going to shake out. They have to see what these people are going to say and how it's going to play before they can commit to a defense is generally how it works. Oh, interesting. So as the trial proceeds, the defense, they may have gone into this trial with a very specific strategy, but they'll have to be nimble and adjust as the trial proceeds. Yeah. I mean, they have a tremendous amount of evidence, but what happens in the courtroom is not always predictable. So this is a very organic process. They're reading these people and they're reading how it's playing to try to put together the most effective defense at the end of this.

这要看证据如何呈现。他们需要了解证人会说些什么，以及如何影响整体情况，才能决定如何进行辩护。通常就是这样运作的。哦，有意思。也就是说，随着审判的进行，辩护方可能进入审判时有一个非常明确的策略，但他们必须灵活应对，随着审判的发展而调整。是的，虽然他们手头有大量证据，但庭审中的情况往往难以预料。因此，这是一个非常动态的过程。他们会根据人的反应和情况的变化，来尽力拼凑出一个最有效的辩护策略。

They are also probably trying to decide who's going to testify for them. I mean, maybe they have 10 witnesses on deck and depending on how the government's case shakes out, they may call one or they may call 10 or they may call none. Yeah. It's totally fluid. Racketering conspiracy. Is it usually pretty hard to win a conviction on a racketeering conspiracy or just racketeering charge? The reason it's such an intimidating case for coms and anyone else in his situation is because it's pretty broad. I mean, there are a lot of options for the government to establish that there were agreements to commit certain crimes. You don't, again, you don't have to prove the crimes. So it's probably considered pretty, you know, a pretty favorable situation for the government.

他们可能也在决定谁会为他们作证。我是说，也许他们手上有10个证人，根据政府提供的证据情况，他们可能会叫一个证人，也可能叫10个证人，甚至一个都不叫。情况非常灵活。敲诈勒索阴谋。要在敲诈勒索阴谋或仅是敲诈勒索指控中赢得定罪通常很难吗？这种案子之所以让通信人员和其他处于同样情况的人感到害怕，是因为它的范围相当广泛。政府有很多方法可以证明确实存在犯罪协议。此外，你不需要实际证明这些犯罪，因此这类案子被认为对政府相当有利。

After the break, Shayna and I talk about the other major charge in this trial. It's trafficking. We'll be right back. Shayna, let's talk about the sex trafficking charge against coms. What is the definition here and why are prosecutors charging coms with this? It is a bit of a broad definition. There have to be elements of interstate commerce. So you've got to sort of have the traveling part of it, which it's not even sure at least when all sorts of places with Sean Combs and the US included. So the other element is that he would have forced her into this conduct through any, really any sort of threatening behavior or physical force or abuse or coercion, especially in recent years, it is pretty widely viewed.

休息之后，Shayna和我会谈论这次审判中的另一个主要指控，那就是贩卖。我们马上回来。Shayna，我们来聊聊针对Coms的性贩卖指控。这在这里的定义是什么，为什么检察官要起诉Coms呢？这个定义有点宽泛。必须涉及跨州商业活动，所以必须包括某种形式的旅行，至少不太确定的是这是否涉及到Sean Combs在各个地方的活动，包括美国。另一个要素是他可能通过任何形式的威胁性行为、身体暴力、虐待或胁迫，特别是近年来，这种行为被广泛视为逼迫她进行这种行为。

It can be psychological manipulation. It can be physical abuse. It's often both. So those are things that the government is going to be trying to establish is the coercion and the methods that were used to force Kessie Ventura and the other victim into unwanted sexual activity. So does it have to involve the exchange of money? It does have to involve some commercial aspect. So there's a couple of aspects of sex trafficking that the government has to establish, the commercial aspect and also the coercion, the forced manipulation. And the judge is going to have to explain to the jury what a commercial sex act entails.

这可以是心理操控，也可以是身体虐待，通常两者兼有。所以，政府将努力证明对Kessie Ventura和其他受害者进行强迫性行为的胁迫及其使用的方法。那么，这是否必须涉及金钱交易呢？是的，它确实需要涉及某种商业方面。因此，政府需要确认性贩运的几个方面，包括商业性质及胁迫和强迫的操控手段。法官还需要向陪审团解释商业性行为的含义。

So Shina, the defense so far has suggested in their arguments that, you know, Combs was maybe like a bad boyfriend. He may be guilty of domestic violence, but not sex trafficking. Just first of all, could Combs be charged with domestic violence? I don't believe so. Domestic violence is typically a state, you know, it would be assault. And I mean, some states probably have specific domestic violence laws. But generally, statutes of limitation for things like assault are a few years. So it sounds like any state where a domestic violence related case could have been brought against Sean Combs, there would be an unlikely case for that. He and Kessie Ventura ended their relationship in 2018. So that was quite some time ago.

根据目前的辩护，Shina，控方提出Combs可能是一个不好的男朋友，可能有家庭暴力行为，但不涉及性贩卖。首先，Combs是否会被指控家庭暴力？我认为不会。家庭暴力通常属于州法律的范畴，基本上可以理解为袭击行为。我想有些州可能有专门的家庭暴力法。但一般来说，涉及袭击之类的案件的诉讼时效只有几年。因此，在任何可能对Sean Combs提起家庭暴力相关案件的州，机会都不大。他和Kessie Ventura在2018年就已经结束了关系，那是相当长时间前的事了。

And it does seem like there is no real option for a state domestic violence case. Also, probably harder to prove that considering how old it is if you were to try to do it that way. Shayna, you've covered a lot of trials before. And I'm wondering, as you're watching this trial unfold, does this one remind you of any others you've covered before? How does this one sit with your experience as far? In some ways, it reminds me of the Harvey Weinstein case, which was not sex trafficking, but it did involve a system of people around him who allegedly enabled him to have unwanted sexual encounters with various women and the coercion aspects. The powerful, very, very powerful and very famous person. And the still people who feel potentially feel inferior to him, given his clout, his power, his fame, his money.

这段文字的大意是：在处理一个州的家庭暴力案件时，似乎没有什么真正的选择。考虑到这个案件年代久远，通过这种方式来证明罪行可能更难。Shayna，在观看这个审判的过程中，你经历过很多其他的审判吧？你觉得这个案件和之前涉及到的哪些案件相似？在某种程度上，这让我想起了哈维·温斯坦的案件，虽然温斯坦案件不是性贩运，但涉及到一个体系内的某些人据称帮助他与多名女性发生了不当的性接触，并涉及了胁迫的方面。案件中的人物都是拥有极大权势、非常著名的人，而其他人可能会因为他们的声望、权力、名气和金钱而感到自卑。

It is also kind of similar to a couple of cult cases I followed. Cult cases. Yeah. Yeah. So this trial is making you feel like as you're watching witnesses testify, they were, they had a deep devotion to Sean Dady Combs. Absolutely. It's very clear from the testimony of some of the employees that this was much more than a job for them. This was, I'm not identity for them. And I mean, some of these systems worked essentially seven days a week, all hours of the day. This was their life. And there's all sorts of ways in which they described justifying some of what they did for him. Or justifying situations they were, whether they are technically part of the conspiracy or not, they were not probably not good situations for anyone. So yeah, there's a deeper devotion than just people who are, people who are in a professional setting. It's, it's a deeply unprofessional in a lot of ways.

这也有点像我关注过的一些邪教案件。是的，这次审判让你感觉，就像在看证人作证时，他们对肖恩·戴迪·科姆斯有着深深的忠诚。毫无疑问，从一些员工的证词中可以清楚地看出，这对他们来说远不止一份工作。这是他们的身份认同。我是说，其中一些员工基本上一周七天、全天候地工作，这几乎是他们的生活。他们描述了各种理由为自己所做的事情辩护，或者为他们所处的状况辩解。不管他们是否在技术上涉及阴谋，这些情况对任何人来说都可能不太好。所以，是的，这种忠诚超出了专业范畴，在很多方面，都是极不专业的。

Wow. Well, Shayna, that's so fascinating. Thank you so much for joining us and taking time to explain on this. Thank you. Shayna Jacobs is a federal courts reporter for the post. You also heard style reporter Anne Branigan, an audio producer, Sabi Robinson in this episode. Sabi contributed reporting from New York and also produced this show. If you want to catch up on our other episodes about this trial, you can find a link to a Spotify playlist in our show notes.

哇，Shayna，这真是太有趣了。非常感谢你加入我们，并花时间为我们解释这些内容。谢谢你。Shayna Jacobs 是《邮报》的联邦法院记者。你还听到了风格记者 Anne Branigan 和音频制作人 Sabi Robinson 的声音。Sabi 从纽约提供了报道，并制作了本次节目。如果你想收听我们关于本次试验的其他节目，可以在我们的节目说明中找到一个 Spotify 播放列表的链接。

That's it for post reports. Thanks for listening. Today's show was edited by Reena Flores and mixed by Sean Carter. Thanks to Carla Spardoz. If you're finding this coverage of the Combs trial valuable, help other people discover our show by leaving a rating on Spotify or a rating interview on Apple podcasts. We really appreciate it. Our team includes Martin Powers, Colby Icoiz, Maggie Penman, Ted Maldon, Lucy Perkins, Alana Gordon, Ariel Platnik, Reni Strenovsky, Emma Talkov, Peter Breznan, Laura Benchoff and Renita Jablonsky. I'm Ella Hay-Ezaddi. We'll be back tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

以上就是关于邮报报道的全部内容。感谢您的收听。今天的节目由Reena Flores编辑，Sean Carter混音。感谢Carla Spardoz的帮助。如果您认为我们对康布斯审判的报道有价值，请在Spotify上留下评分，或在Apple Podcasts上进行评价，以帮助其他人发现我们的节目。我们非常感激。我们的团队成员包括Martin Powers、Colby Icoiz、Maggie Penman、Ted Maldon、Lucy Perkins、Alana Gordon、Ariel Platnik、Reni Strenovsky、Emma Talkov、Peter Breznan、Laura Benchoff和Renita Jablonsky。我是Ella Hay-Ezaddi。明天我们将带来更多来自《华盛顿邮报》的故事。