LIVE: Elon Musk speaks remotely at the Qatar Economic Forum
发布时间 2025-05-20 14:01:41 来源
Europe is our weakest market. We're strong everywhere else. So, now, I say also are doing well at this point. We don't anticipate any full sale shortfall. And the obviously the stock market recognizes that since we're now back over a trillion dollars in market cap. So, the market is aware of the situation. So, it's already turned around. But sales still down compared to this time last year. In Europe. In Europe, okay. And that's true of all manufacturers. There's no exceptions. Does that mean that you're not going to be able? Does that mean you're thinking by week? Okay. But you would acknowledge, wouldn't you, what you are facing. Okay. Let's just take it as Europe. What you are facing is a significant problem.
欧洲是我们最薄弱的市场。在其他地方我们表现强劲。所以现在，我想说，我们在其他区域表现良好。我们不预期会出现整体销售额的短缺。显然，股市也反映了这一点，因为我们的市值现在又回到了超过一万亿美元的水平。所以，市场对这种情况已经有所了解，并且情况已经有所好转。但是，与去年同期相比，销售额在欧洲仍然下降。对，是在欧洲。这个情况对所有制造商都适用，没有例外。这是否意味着你不能做到？或者说，这是否意味着你每周都在思考对策？不过你也承认，你正在面对困难。好，我们就说欧洲。你面对的是一个显著的问题。
This Tesla is an incredibly aspirational brand. People identified with it. They saw it. They saw it as being at the forefront of the climate crisis. And now people are driving around with stickers in their cars saying, I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy. And that there are also people who are buying it because Elon's crazy or how they may view it. So, yes, we've lost some sales perhaps on the left, but we've gained them on the right. The sales numbers at this point are strong. And we see no problem with the man. So what do you mean?
这个特斯拉是一个非常令人向往的品牌。人们认同它，看到了它，并把它视为应对气候危机的前沿。然而，现在有些人在车上贴着这样的贴纸：“我是在知道埃隆疯狂之前买的这辆车。”同时也有些人因为埃隆的所谓“疯狂”而购买特斯拉。的确，我们可能在左翼阵营中失去了一些销量，但右翼阵营却有增长。当前的销售数据很强劲，我们对他没有任何问题。所以，你的意思是什么意思呢？
I mean, you can just look at the stock price. If you want the best insight information, the stock market analysts have that. And stock wouldn't be trading near all time highs if it was not a thing that's going to be good. They're fine. They're worried about it. I was citing sales figures rather than share price. Well, tell me then how committed you are to Tesla. Do you see yourself and are you committed to still being the chief executive of Tesla in five years time? Yes. No doubt about that at all. Well, no, I might die. Okay, sure to that.
我的意思是，你只要看看股票价格就行。如果你想要最好的内幕信息，那些股票市场分析师手里就有。而如果没有前景好的话，股票也不会接近历史高点。他们没问题，只是有些担心。我之前引用的是销售数据而不是股价。那么，你能告诉我你对特斯拉的承诺有多深吗？你是否认为自己在五年后仍会担任特斯拉的首席执行官？是的，毫无疑问。当然，除非我去世。
So, does that mean that the value of your pay doesn't have any bearing on your decision? Well, that's not really a subject of discussion in this forum. I think, obviously, there should be a conversation for if there's something incredible is down that conversation should match that something incredible is done. But I'm confident that whatever the, whatever some activists opposing as a judge in Delaware happens to do will not affect the future conversation. This is the judge who twice struck down the $56 billion pay package that was awarded to you.
那么，这是否意味着你的薪水价值对你的决定没有影响呢？这个话题其实不属于我们在这个论坛要讨论的内容。我认为，显然如果有一些了不起的事情在进行，讨论也应该和那些事情相匹配。但我相信，无论特拉华州的某位法官将做出怎样的判决，都不会影响未来的讨论。这位法官曾两次否决给你拨发的560亿美元薪酬方案。
I think the value on the basis on the current value of stock options. Not a judge. The activist who is cars playing a judge in a Halloween costume. That's your characterization. I think the value of stock options, I think the actual. On the current value of stock options, I think the value of that pay package stands at about $100 billion. Are you saying you are relaxed about the value of your future pay package? Your decision to be committed to Tesla for the next five years as long as you are still with us on this planet is completely independent of pay? No. It's not independent.
我认为股票期权的价值是基于其当前价值的。不是法官，却像一个在万圣节穿着法官服装的激进分子。这是你的看法。我认为股票期权的价值，我觉得实际上是基于当前的价值。我认为那个薪酬方案的价值大约为1000亿美元。你是说你对自己未来薪酬方案的价值很坦然吗？你是否决定承诺在未来五年内继续致力于特斯拉，只要你还活在这个世界上，不论薪酬如何？不，不是完全不考虑薪酬。
So pay is a relevant factor, then, to your commitment to Tesla. It's sufficient for running control such that I cannot be housed to it by activists and vests is what matters to me. I've said this publicly many times. But listen, I have this whole thing be a discussion of my alleged pay. It's not a money thing. It's a reasonable control thing over the future of the company, especially if we're building millions, potentially billions of humanoid robots. I can't be sitting there and wondering if I get tossed out by political reasons by activists. That will be unacceptable. That's all that matters. Now let's move on.
所以，薪酬是你对特斯拉承诺的一个相关因素。因为这提供了足够的控制力，让我不至于被激进分子赶走，而这才是我真正关心的。我已经多次公开表示过这一点。但请注意，我不想把这一切讨论成关于我所谓工资的问题。这不是钱的问题，而是关于对公司未来的合理控制，尤其是当我们可能要制造数百万甚至数十亿的类人机器人时。我不能坐在那里担心会因为政治原因被激进分子赶走。这是无法接受的。这才是最重要的。现在我们继续讨论其他内容。
Okay. Well, just one question. I'll move on. Well, one question before we move on to other companies, which is that I wonder if some of what you've said has happened to Tesla in the last few months. Did you take it personally? Yes. Did it make you regret any of all think twice about your political endeavors? Is the Nintendo Because it is顯 candles red Clearly to boil important Dini Massachusetts Massive violence was threatened against me. Who are these people? Why would they do that?
好的，我只有一个问题，然后我们继续。其实在我们谈到其他公司之前，我有一个问题，就是我想知道你提到的最近几个月发生在特斯拉的事情，你是不是觉得很个人化？是的。那这些事情是否让你对自己的政治活动有过后悔或者重新考虑？因为有人对我发了严重的暴力威胁。那些人是谁？为什么他们会这样做？
How wrong can they be? They're on the wrong side of history. And that's an evil thing to do. To go and damage some of the person's car. To threaten to kill me. What's wrong with these people? I've not harmed anyone. So, something needs to be done about them. And a number of them are going to prison. And they deserve it. You're more will. You're referring to the attacks on Tesla showrooms. But I think. Yeah. Well, it's your showrooms and burning down cars unacceptable.
他们能错到什么程度呢？他们站在历史的错误一边。这是件很邪恶的事情，比如去破坏别人的车，甚至威胁要杀了我。这些人怎么了？我没有伤害任何人，所以必须对他们采取措施。其中一些人将要入狱，他们应该为此负责。你提到了对特斯拉展厅的攻击，我也认为，对展厅的攻击和烧毁汽车是不可接受的行为。
This people will go to prison. And the people that find them and organize them will also go to prison. Don't worry. But wouldn't you. Wouldn't. Wouldn't. But wouldn't you acknowledge that some of the people who turned against Tesla in Europe were upset at your politics? And very few of them would have been violent in any way. They just objected to what they saw you say or do politically. Well, it's certainly fine to object to political things. But it's not. It's not fine to resort to violence and hanging someone in an effigy and death threats. That's obviously not okay. You know, that's absurd. That is in no way justifiable at all in any way, shape or form. And some of the legacy media and none of us have sort of just fired, which is unconscionable. Shame on them.
这些人将会被送进监狱。而那些找到他们并组织他们的人也同样会被送进监狱。别担心。但是，难道你不承认有些反对特斯拉的欧洲人是因为对你的政治立场不满吗？他们中很少有人会表现出任何形式的暴力行为。他们只是反对他们所看到的你在政治上的言行。嗯，反对政治立场当然是可以的。但是，诉诸暴力、焚烧假人以及发出死亡威胁却是不可以的。这显然是不对的。这根本无法以任何方式、形态或形式合理化。而一些传统媒体对此不予谴责，这更是不可理喻的。真是可耻。
Let's talk about your other companies and other business areas. SpaceX. I saw that you said in a speech at the West Point Military Academy recently that the future of warfare is AI and drones. And obviously, defense is an increasingly booming sector with the state of the world at the moment. Do you see SpaceX moving into weaponized drones? You certainly ask interesting questions that are impossible to answer. So SpaceX is. It's the Space Launch Leader. So SpaceX doesn't do drones. SpaceX builds rockets, satellites and internet terminals.
让我们聊聊你的其他公司和业务领域。比如SpaceX。我看到你最近在西点军校的一次演讲中提到，未来的战争将由人工智能和无人机主导。而目前的国际形势显然使得国防领域越来越繁荣。你认为SpaceX会进入武装无人机领域吗？
这个问题确实很有趣，但也很难回答。SpaceX是航天发射领域的领导者。SpaceX不涉及无人机领域，而是专注于建造火箭、卫星和互联网终端。
So. So. SpaceX has a very dominant position in Space Launch. So of the mass launch to orbit this year, SpaceX will probably do 90 percent. China will do the remaining half of the remaining amounts of 5 percent. And the rest of the world, including the rest of the US, will do about 5 percent. So SpaceX will do about 10 times as much as the rest of the world combined, or 20 times as much as China, which is in China, it's doing actually a very impressive job. The reason for this is that we're putting it into orbit of the largest satellite constellation the world's ever seen by far.
所以，SpaceX在太空发射领域占据了非常主导的地位。今年，SpaceX可能会完成90%的轨道发射任务。中国将负责剩下的5%中的一半，其余的世界，包括美国的其他部分，将完成大约5%。因此，SpaceX的发射量大约是全球其他国家总和的10倍，或者是中国的20倍。在中国，他们实际上做得非常出色。之所以会这样，是因为我们正在将世界上最大规模的卫星星座发射入轨。
So I think at this point about maybe approaching 80 percentable active satellites in orbit are SpaceX. And they're providing high bandwidth level connectivity throughout the world. In fact, this connection is on the SpaceX connection. So. I think this is a very good thing, because it means that we can provide low cost by bandwidth internet to a parts of the world if don't have it or it's very expensive. And I think the single biggest thing you can do to look at people out of poverty and help them is giving them an internet connection.
所以，我认为，目前在轨的活跃卫星中，可能有接近80%是属于SpaceX的。它们正在为全球提供高带宽的连接服务。事实上，这个连接就是通过SpaceX实现的。我认为这是非常好的事情，因为这意味着我们能够以低成本为那些缺乏互联网或互联网费用昂贵的地区提供高带宽的互联网服务。而且，我认为，帮助人们摆脱贫困和给他们提供帮助的最大举措之一，就是为他们提供互联网连接。
Because once you have the internet connection, you can learn anything for free on the internet. And you can also sell your goods and services to the global market. And once you have knowledge by the internet and the ability to engage in commerce, that this is going to greatly improve quality of life for people throughout the world and it has. And I just like to think anyone in the audience who may have been helpful and, you know, we were starling and getting it to be approved in the country.
一旦你有了互联网连接，你就可以在网上免费学习任何东西。你还可以把你的商品和服务销售到全球市场。通过互联网获得知识，并拥有参与商业活动的能力，这将极大地改善全球各地人们的生活质量，而它已经确实如此。我想感谢在座的任何可能曾经提供帮助的人，你们知道的，我们过去在努力推进这项在国家内的批准。
And I think it's certainly a lot of good on the countries that have approved it, which is, I think, this point 130 countries are very happy with it. I don't currently anticipate SpaceX getting into the weapons business. That's not an aspiration. We're free. We're frequently asked to do weapons programs, but we have just a lot of clients. Do you envisage SpaceX or, indeed, starling has a separate entity publicly listing in the near future or at all?
我认为，对于那些已经批准这个事情的国家来说，这确实是个好消息。目前大约有130个国家对此表示满意。我目前不打算让SpaceX进军武器业务，那不是我们的目标。我们经常被要求参与武器项目，但我们有很多其他客户。你是否预见SpaceX或Starlink会在近期内或将来作为单独实体上市？
It's possible that starling may go public at some point in the future. And what would be the timeframe? What kind of timeframe you consider? I mean, I'm in a rush to go public. The public is, I guess, a way to, you know, potentially make more money, but at the expense of a lot of public company overhead and inevitably, how much lawsuits, which are very annoying.
有可能Starling会在未来的某个时候上市。那时间表会是怎样的呢？你考虑的时间范围是什么？我的意思是，我并不急于上市。上市可能是赚更多钱的一种方式，但要承担很多上市公司所需的管理费用，并且不可避免地会面临许多令人烦恼的诉讼。
So really something needs to be done about the shareholder, the shareholder at Robert of lawsuits in the US, because it allows. Plaintiff law firms who don't represent the shareholders to pretend that they represent the shareholders by getting a public plaintiff with the few shares to initiate a massive lawsuit against the company. And the irony being that extreme irony that even if the class they report to represent were to vote that they don't want the lawsuit, the lawsuit will still continue.
因此，确实需要对美国的股东问题采取一些措施，特别是在罗伯特的诉讼案件中。因为这种情况允许一些不代表股东的原告律师事务所假装代表股东，通过让一个持有少量股份的公共原告发起对公司的大规模诉讼。而具有极强讽刺意味的是，即使他们声称代表的股东群体投票反对提起诉讼，诉讼仍然会继续进行。
So how can it be a class action representing a class if the class were against it? And that's the bizarre situation in the US that needs to, it's a dire need of reform. And as anyone who's running public company experiences, it's an absurd situation and is changed. Well, do you think Donald Trump might change it? You've certainly got his ear. I imagine that you've put this to him. Is this something you're trying to change before any starling IPO?
那么，如果集体诉讼的代表团体本身反对这项诉讼，那怎么还能称作集体诉讼呢？这正是美国目前急需改革的怪异现象。任何经营上市公司的人都会觉得这是一个荒谬的情况，并需要改变。那么，你觉得唐纳德·特朗普可能会改变这种情况吗？你显然能够接触到他。我想你可能已经向他提出了这个问题。在进行任何星链IPO之前，这是你想要改变的事情吗？
Well, we need a law to be passed. The trouble being that you need 60 cent of votes. And the Democrats will vote against it. The plaintiff's bar is, I believe, the second largest contributor to the Democratic Party. That's the issue. At the state level, this can be solved. And I should say Texas recently passed a law which, at least at the state level, made the election lawsuit much more reasonable because you have to get at least one in 33 shareholders to agree that they are part of a class of shareholders, three percent. This is a, this will be, will be really helped with a provost lawsuit.
我们需要通过一项法律。问题在于需要获得60%的选票支持，而民主党会投反对票。我认为，原告律师团是民主党的第二大捐助者。这就是问题所在。在州级别，这个问题可以解决。我应该提到，德克萨斯州最近通过了一项法律，至少在州级别，使选举诉讼更加合理，因为你必须至少获得1/33的股东同意，即达到3%的股东认可。这将有助于推进诉讼。
Let's talk about AI, which is in so many of your businesses and in all our world in different ways. It's one of the big changes, the development of generative AI since you last spoke to this forum three years ago. You're in this space, of course, with Grop, which almost everyone will know. You co-founded open AI and then left and you've obviously got a legal battle with open AI and Sam Altman. I wonder if you could say something about the status of that because you were together in Saudi Arabia with the president last week with Sam Altman. In the same place at the same time. And in the neighborhood.
让我们来谈谈人工智能，它已经在你的许多业务中发挥作用，并且以不同的方式影响着我们的世界。自从三年前你在这个论坛上发言以来，生成式人工智能的发展是一个重大变化。你当然在这个领域中，比如说Grop，几乎所有人都知道它。你曾共同创立了OpenAI，然后离开了，现在显然你与OpenAI和Sam Altman有法律纠纷。我想知道你能否谈谈这个问题的现状，因为上周你和Sam Altman与总统一同在沙特阿拉伯。你们在同一个地方，同一个时间，而且相邻。
Does that mean you are pushing ahead with the lawsuit against open AI? Yes, but so I came up with the name open AI as an open source and as a nonprofit. And I funded AI opening up for the first roughly $50 million. And it was intended to be a nonprofit open source company. And now it is trying to change that for the financial benefit into a for profit company. That is closed source. So this would be like, let's say you funded a nonprofit to help reserve the Amazon rainforest. But instead of doing that, they became a lumber company, dropped down the forest and sold the wood. You'd be like wait a second, that's not what I funded. That's open AI.
这是否意味着您正在推进对OpenAI的诉讼？ 是的，因为我最初是以开源和非营利的形式提出了OpenAI这个名字。我为AI的开放性投入了大约最初的五千万美元。它本意是成为一家非营利性、开源的公司。然而，现在它正试图为了金融利益转变为营利性公司，并且封闭了源码。就好比，假设您资助了一个非营利组织来帮助保护亚马逊雨林，但他们不是保护雨林，反而变成了一个伐木公司，砍光了森林并出售木材。你会想，等一下，这不是我资助的目的。这就是现在的OpenAI。
They've made some changes to their corporate structure though, haven't they since in recognition of what you've said? Now that's just what they told the media. Okay. That part they have partly walked back their plan to restructure the business. I guess that's made no difference to how you feel about it. So you determined to see them in court? Of course. Well, that's certainly going to be one to watch.
他们确实对公司结构做出了一些调整，不是吗？这是因为他们认可你所说的。不过，这只是他们对媒体说的话。实际上，他们已经部分撤回了重组计划。我猜这对你的感觉没有影响。所以你还是决定要把他们告上法庭？当然。这无疑会是一个值得关注的案件。
I also want to ask you about AI and regulation. Because when you were here last talking to John McLeod, you had some pretty strong words about the risk that AI poses. And you said that you really felt what the US was missing was a federal AI regulator that, you know, something along the lines of the Food and Drug Administration or the Federal Aviation Administration. Now you're clearly now in a zone where you're more on the cutting regulation side than wanting new regulators. So has your view changed on the need for an AI regulator?
我也想问一下您关于人工智能和监管的问题。因为上次您在这里和约翰·麦克劳德交谈时，您对人工智能带来的风险有一些非常强烈的看法。您说您真的觉得美国缺少一个类似食品药品监督管理局或联邦航空管理局这样的联邦人工智能监管机构。而现在，您显然更倾向于减少监管力度，而不是设立新的监管机构。所以，您对需要人工智能监管机构的看法改变了吗？
Well, it's not that I don't think there should be regulators. You think of regulators like referees on the field in sports. There should be some number of referees, but that you should have so many referees that you can't kick the ball without hitting one. So in many, in most of the fields in the US, the regulatory burden has grown over time to the point where it's like having more referees than players on the field. And this is a natural consequence of an extended period of prosperity.
这段话的意思是：“我并不是觉得不需要监管者。你可以把监管者想象成体育比赛中的裁判。裁判的数量应该是适当的，但不能多到每踢一次球就会撞到裁判。在美国的许多领域，随着时间推移，监管负担变得越来越重，就像场上裁判比运动员还多一样。这是在长期繁荣发展后出现的一种自然结果。”
It's very important to appreciate this. This is happening throughout history. When you have an extended period of prosperity with no existential war, there's no, there's no, there's no cleansing function for unnecessary laws and regulations. So what happens is that every year, more laws and more regulations are passed because, you know, legislators are going to legislate, regulators are going to regulate. And you will get the steady pile of more and more laws and regulations over time until everything is illegal.
理解这一点非常重要。这种情况在历史上一直发生。当一个国家经历长时间的繁荣且没有生存威胁的战争时，就缺少了对不必要法律和法规的清理过程。结果是，每年都会有更多的法律和法规出台，因为立法者总是会去立法，监管者也总是会去监管。随着时间的推移，法律和法规会不断增加，最终几乎所有事情都变得违法。
And let me give you an example of a truly absurd situation. Under the Biden administration, SpaceX was sued for not hiring asylum seekers in the US. Now, the problem is it's actually illegal for SpaceX under ITAR and international traffic and arms regulations to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident of the United States because the premise being that they will take advanced rocket technology and return to their home country if they're not a permanent resident. So we're simultaneously in a situation where it is illegal to hire a asylum service and is also illegal to hire asylum seekers.
让我给你举一个真正荒谬的例子。在拜登政府时期，SpaceX因为没有雇佣美国的寻求庇护者而被起诉。然而，问题在于，根据《国际武器贸易条例》和国际交通与武器法规，SpaceX实际上是违法的，如果雇佣了非美国永久居民。这是因为担心这些人如果不是永久居民，可能会将先进的火箭技术带回他们的祖国。因此，我们处于这样一种境地：雇佣庇护服务是违法的，同时雇佣寻求庇护者也是违法的。
And the Biden's Department of Justice chose to prosecute us despite both paths being illegal. But my question was specifically about a regulator for AI, which you said three years ago was needed and you said we need to be proactive on the regulation of AI rather than reactive. Have you changed your mind on that? No, of course not. What I'm saying is that there should be some referees on the field, a few referees, but you shouldn't have a field jam packed with referees such that you cannot click on the ball in any direction without hitting one.
拜登的司法部选择起诉我们，尽管这两个途径都是非法的。但我具体的问题是关于一个人工智能的监管机构，你在三年前曾说过需要这样一个机构，而且你说我们应该在人工智能的监管上积极主动，而不是被动应对。你对此改变看法了吗？当然没有改变。我的意思是，在场上应该有一些裁判，但不应该让场上挤满裁判，以至于无论你把球踢到哪个方向都会撞到一个裁判。
So the fields that have been around for a long time, such as automotive, so aerospace, you know, if the sort of food and drug industries are over regulated. But the new fields like artificial intelligence are under regulated. In fact, there is no regulator at all. So there should be. You still think that. Yes, I'm simply saying, which I think is just basic common sense that you want to have at least you want you want to have a few referees in the field. You don't want to have an army of referees, but you want to have a few referees on any given field in any given sport or any given arena in just for arena to ensure that public safety is taken care of.
长期以来，一些领域，比如汽车和航空航天，还有食品和药品行业，都是受到严格监管的。然而，像人工智能这样的新兴领域缺乏足够的监管。实际上，这些领域目前没有任何监管机构。因此，确实应该有一些监管。我认为这只是基本的常识，你至少需要在任何领域中有几个裁判，以确保公共安全得到保障。你不需要一大批裁判，但在任何一个特定的领域或行业中，有几个裁判是必要的，以确保公众的安全。
But you know what I have said so there's a proper number of referees. But like said, it's actually very easy to visualize this when compared to sports. If the whole field is packed with referees, that would look absurd. But if there are no referees at all, your game stuff here be as good. Okay, so let's then talk about your new world, your role advising government. You are in this unique and unprecedented position of having billions of dollars worth of contracts with the federal government yourself, mostly through SpaceX. And also now an insider's knowledge of it because of Doge.
你知道我之前说过关于裁判人数的问题。其实，如果用体育来比喻，这很容易理解。如果整个场地都挤满了裁判，那看起来会很荒唐。但如果完全没有裁判，比赛也无法正常进行。好了，让我们谈谈你的新角色，即为政府提供建议。你现在处于一个独特且前所未有的地位，自己和联邦政府有数十亿美元的合同，大多通过SpaceX。同时，因为Doge，你现在还对政府有了内部的了解。
Can you see that there is a conflict of interest or a potential conflict of interest in broad terms just through that very fact? I don't think so actually. There have been many advisors in throughout history and in the US government and others who have had economic interests. And I am simply an advisor. I don't have formal power. And that's it. I'm not present to you to accept my advice or not. And that's that's our goes.
你能看出仅仅因为这一事实就存在利益冲突或潜在的利益冲突吗？我其实不这么认为。历史上，包括美国政府在内的许多顾问都曾有过经济利益。我只是个顾问，没有正式权力。而已。我并不在你面前要求你接受我的建议，就这样。
If there's a single contract that any of my companies that we have received that people think is somehow not. Was was awarded improperly. It would immediately be front page news. To say the least. And if if I didn't mention it, something my competitors would. So if you're not seeing that, then the clearly is not a conflict of interest. The. Yeah. There's another way though to look at it that for example, you have many competitors, whether it's companies like Boeing or companies who would like to do more of the kind of work you do for NASA, Blue Origin Rocket Lab.
如果我公司收到的合同中有任何一份被认为是以不正当手段获得的，那毫无疑问会立刻成为头条新闻。更不用说，如果我不提，有竞争对手也会指出这一点。所以，如果你没有看到这样的报道，那显然就不存在利益冲突。同时，还有另一种看法，就是像波音这样的公司，或者像蓝色起源和火箭实验室这样的公司，他们都希望多参与我们为NASA开展的类似工作。
And because Doge is in every federal government department, you or people who work for Doge and you are the driving force behind it, have an insight into those companies affairs. And those companies relationships with the federal government. Now all we do is we review the organization to see if the organization has departments that are under a relevant. And then are the contracts that are being awarded good value for money. In fact, frankly, the bar is not particularly high.
因为Doge在联邦政府的每一个部门中存在，所以你或者为Doge工作的人可以深入了解这些公司事务，以及这些公司与联邦政府的关系。现在我们所做的不过是评估这些组织，看看它们是否有不相关的部门，以及所授予的合同是否物有所值。坦白说，门槛其实并不高。
Is there any value for money in a contract? And if there isn't been we make recommendations to the secretary, the secretary can choose to take those actions or not take those actions. And that's it. And then any action that is as a function of Doge is posted to the Doge website and to the doge.gov or at that Doge handle on the X platform. So it's complete transparency. And I have not seen any case where that's my knowledge. It's even been an accusation of conflict because it is completely and utterly transparent.
合同中是否存在物有所值的问题？如果没有，我们会向秘书提出建议，秘书可以选择采取这些行动或不采取这些行动。就是这样。然后，与Doge相关的任何行动都会发布在Doge网站以及doge.gov或Doge在X平台上的账号，以实现完全透明。根据我的了解，我没有见过任何有关于此的争议或利益冲突指控，因为一切都是完全透明的。
And what about the international dimension now? Let's think about Starlink. Starlink is obviously a very, very good internet service. It's sought after all over the world. It's critical to the front line in Ukraine. It is also had more contracts coming its way. And there is some evidence that companies are allowing access to it because they want to be close to the Trump administration and send the right signal. So Bloomberg broke news today that the South African government is working around the rules on black ownership in order to allow Starlink in.
那现在国际层面呢？让我们来谈谈Starlink（星链）。Starlink显然是一个非常、非常优秀的互联网服务，全球都在争相使用。在乌克兰前线，这一服务尤为重要。此外，它还获得了越来越多的合同。而且有一些迹象显示，一些公司允许接入Starlink，是因为它们希望与特朗普政府保持密切关系，并传递正确的信号。今天，彭博社爆料称，南非政府正在绕过涉及黑人所有权的相关规定，以便让Starlink进驻。
And that has been done on the eve of the visit. The President Ramaphosa is going to make the White House. Do you recognize that as a conflict of interest? No, of course not. First of all, you should be questioning why is there why they're racist laws in South Africa? That's the first problem. That's what you should be attacking. It's improper for they to be racist laws in South Africa. The whole whole idea with what Nelson Mandela, who was a great man, reposed was that all racists should be on an equal footing in South Africa.
这件事在访问前夕已经完成。拉马福萨总统即将访问白宫。你认为这是利益冲突吗？当然不是。首先，你应该质疑为什么南非会有种族歧视法律。这才是第一个问题，正是你应该抨击的地方。在南非存在种族歧视法律是不妥当的。伟大人物纳尔逊·曼德拉所倡导的核心思想就是各族裔在南非应站在平等的立场上。
That's the right thing to do. Not to replace one set of racist laws, but the other set of racist laws, which is utterly wrong and improper. So that's the deal that all racists should be treated equally. And there should be no preference given to one or the other. Whereas they're now 140 laws in South Africa that give a prep that basically give strong preference to a few black South African. And not otherwise.
这是正确的做法。不是用另一套种族歧视法律来替换现有的种族歧视法律，因为这同样是完全错误和不当的。所有的种族歧视行为都应该被同等对待，不应该偏袒任何一方。然而，目前南非有140条法律基本上给予少数黑人南非人强烈的优待，而其他人没有这种待遇。
And so now I'm in this absurd situation where I was born in South Africa, but can't get a license to operate installing because I'm not black. Well, it looks like that's about to change. I just asked you a question. Please answer. Does that seem right to you? Well, those rules were designed to bring those rules were designed to bring about an era of more economic equality in South Africa. And it looks like the government has found a way around those rules for you. Ask your question. This is your interview. Everyone wants to hear from you. Is your question. Yes or no? Not for me to answer.
所以现在我处于一个荒谬的境地：我出生在南非，但因为不是黑人，无法获得安装业务的许可证。不过，这种情况似乎即将改变。我刚问了你一个问题，请回答。你觉得这样合理吗？这些规则的制定是为了促进南非经济的平等，而政府似乎为你找到了绕过这些规则的方法。请问你的问题。这是你的采访，大家都想听听你的看法。你的问题是吗？这不是我该回答的。
I have got a question for you about your government work and the emergency savings. I do like racist laws. This is not for me to answer. Come on. No, you wouldn't be trying to dodge the question. You have to ask a question. I have a question. I know you answer. I think if you I'm sure you can have that conversation directly with the South African government if you want to. I want to ask you about the total.
我有一个关于你的政府工作和应急储蓄的问题要问你。我确实喜欢种族主义法律。这不该由我来回答。拜托。不，你不会试图回避这个问题。你必须要问一个问题。我有一个问题。我知道你会回答。我想如果你愿意，你肯定可以直接和南非政府谈这个问题。我想问一下关于总体情况的问题。
I want to ask you about the total amount that you're planning to save through Doge's work. Before the election, you said it was going to be at least two trillion. The number currently on Doge's dog gav is 170 billion dollars. That's a big change. What happened to the two trillion? Or do you expect it to happen immediately? Is it going to happen? Because Doge is supposed to run until next July. Your question is absurd and it is fundamental premise. I'm assuming that on day, you know, within a few months, there's an instant two trillion saved.
我想问一下你计划通过Doge的工作节省的总金额。在选举之前，你说至少会有两万亿美元。目前，Doge的相关页面上显示的数字是1700亿美元。这是一个很大的变化。两万亿的目标是发生了什么？还是说你预计这个目标会立即实现？这个目标会实现吗？因为Doge的计划应该会持续到明年七月。你的问题很荒谬，并且基于一个错误的假设。我假设在几个月内，会立刻节省两万亿。
No, I'm not told. I'm just asking you. Is that still your aim then? No, we don't. Is that still your aim to get to two trillion? Have we not made good progress given the amount of time? That's exactly what I'm asking. So is it still your aim to go from 170 billion to two trillion? The ability of Doge to operate is a function of whether the government, and this includes the Congress, is willing to take our advice. We're not the dictators of the government. We are the advisers.
不，我没有被告知。我只是问你。那么，这还是你的目标吗？不，我们没有。那么，你们的目标还是达到两万亿吗？考虑到时间，我们不是已经取得了不错的进展吗？这正是我在问的问题。所以，你们的目标还是从1700亿增长到两万亿吗？Doge的运作能力取决于政府，也就是包括国会在内的政府是否愿意接受我们的建议。我们不是政府的独裁者，我们是顾问。
And so we can advise and the progress we made thus far, I think, is incredible. We're not the dictators, we are the advisers. But thus far, for advisers, the Doge team to their credit has made incredible progress. You've talked about four billion dollars a day being saved. But that won't get. Which is an, I think everyone can agree that combating waste and inefficiency in government is a very good thing.
因此，我们可以提供建议，而到目前为止我们取得的进展，我认为是令人惊叹的。我们不是独裁者，我们是顾问。但到目前为止，作为顾问，多吉团队已经取得了令人难以置信的进步。你提到每天节省了四十亿美元。但是这些还不够。我想每个人都能同意，打击政府中的浪费和低效是非常有益的事情。
But if you add that, you know, you're going to have to do that. But if you add that up, it's not going to get to two trillion over the lifetime of Doge. Sorry. The four billion, the four billion a day, if Doge is going to run till next July, it's not going to get you to two trillion dollars. But you still say it's your aim, so we'll take that as red. There's what Doge.
如果你加上这个，你知道的，你就得这么做。但即使你把它加在一起，它在狗狗币的整个生命周期中也达不到两万亿。抱歉。那四十亿，如果狗狗币运行到明年七月，也不会让你达到两万亿美元。不过你仍然说这是你的目标，所以我们姑且认为这就是你的意图。这就是关于狗狗币的内容。
I feel you're somewhat trapped in the NPC dialogue tree of a traditional journalist. So it's difficult when we're conversing with the public. So it's difficult when I'm conversing with someone who's trapped in the dialogue tree of a conventional journalist, because it's like talking to a computer. So Doge is an advisory group. We are doing the best we can as an advisory group. The progress made thus far as an advisory group is excellent.
我觉得你有点像传统记者一样，被困在固定的对话模式里。这让我在和公众交流时感到困难。和一个被传统记者对话模式束缚住的人交流，就像在和电脑对话一样。Doge是一个顾问团队，作为顾问团队，我们正在尽最大努力。到目前为止，作为顾问团队取得的进展非常出色。
I don't think any advisory group has done better in the history of advisory groups of the government. Now, we do not make the laws nor do we control the judiciary, nor do we control the executive branch. We are simply advisers in that context. We are doing very well. Beyond that, we cannot take action beyond that because we are not some sort of imperial dictator of the government.
我认为在政府顾问团的历史上，还没有哪个顾问团表现得比我们更好。不过，我们不制定法律，也不掌控司法系统，也不控制行政部门。我们仅仅是在这个背景下提供建议的顾问。我们做得非常出色。但除此之外，我们无法采取进一步的行动，因为我们并不是政府的某种统治者。
There are three branches of the government that are some degree opposed to that level of cost savings. But nonetheless, let's not criticize whether there's four trillion. Instead, look at the fact that that 160 billion has been saved and more will be saved too. As I said, I think everyone can agree that cutting waste and, indeed, fraud in any government and being responsible with tax-based money is a very good thing. So I can see that you're proud of that work. I do want to ask you about USAID and the comments that Bill Gates made the other day, which I know that you called him. I know. You said that already. I want to. Also, I'm just. Who does Bill Gates think he is to make comments about the welfare of children given that he is. .eferred to the Geoffrey F.C. Well. He said he regrets those. I would just like to make a smile. He spent a lot of his own money on philanthropy around the world over the years.
政府有三个部门在某种程度上反对节省成本的程度。但无论如何，我们不要去争论是否有四万亿。相反，看看已经节省的1600亿，并且还会节省更多。正如我所说，我想每个人都能同意，削减任何政府的浪费和欺诈，并且对税收资金负责是非常好的事情。所以我明白你为这些工作感到自豪。我确实想问一下关于美国国际开发署（USAID）和比尔·盖茨前几天的评论，我知道你已经给他打过电话。你已经说过了。我只是想问，比尔·盖茨以什么身份发表关于儿童福利的评论，尽管他曾与杰弗里·F.C.有过联系。他说过他对此感到遗憾。我想只是微笑着说，他多年来在世界各地的慈善事业上花了很多自己的钱。
My question to you is, have you looked at the data to check if you might be right that the cuts to USAID might cost millions of lives? Yes. I'd like him to pursue us in any evidence whatsoever that that is true. It's false. We found that with USAID cuts, and by the way, they have an open cut, the parts of USAID that we found to be. .even slightly useful were transferred to the State Department. They're not been deleted. They've been transferred to the State Department. But many times over with USAID and other organizations, when they said, well, this is going to help children or it's going to help some. .dezees eradication or something like that. And then when we ask for any evidence whatsoever, I say, well, please connect us with this group of children so we can talk to them and understand more about the issue. We get nothing.
我的问题是，你有没有查过数据，以确认你关于削减美国国际开发署（USAID）预算可能导致数百万生命损失的看法是否正确？是的。我希望他能拿出任何证据来证明这一点是真的。但事实上，这是不对的。我们发现，USAID的预算削减其实是有限的，我们认为最有用的部分被转移到了国务院，没有被删除。而在过去无数次针对USAID和其他组织的情况下，他们常常宣称，这些削减将影响儿童福利或某些疾病的根除。当我们要求他们提供相关证据时，我们说，请让我们联系这些儿童群体，以便我们能更好地了解问题所在，但我们什么也得不到。
We don't. .they're even trying to prevent. .we should come up with a show of it, meaning like this sort of like, well, can we at least see a few kids? Where are they if they're in trouble? We'd like to talk to them and talk to their caregivers. Okay. Well, can we put this. .and then we get a thing as a response, because what we find is a north-mount of fraud and graft. Okay. Let me put this example to you. Very little. It actually gets to the kids if anything at all. Okay. Let me put this example to you because you grew up in South Africa, so you'll know the impact of HIV AIDS. Well, and this is why I asked about the data the US led on international efforts to combat HIV AIDS treatment prevention.
我们没有。他们甚至试图阻止。我们应该对此进行一些展示，比如说，我们至少可以见几个孩子吗？如果他们有困难，我们想和他们以及他们的看护人谈谈。好吧，那么我们可以这样做吗... 然后我们得到一个回应，因为我们发现存在大量的欺诈和贪污问题。让我给你举个例子。实际上，几乎没有任何东西真正到达孩子们手中。因为你在南非长大，所以你会知道艾滋病的影响。这也是我为什么要询问美国在国际抗击艾滋病治疗和预防工作中所提供数据的原因。
And there's an initiative called PEPFAR, which is credited with saving 26 million lives in the last 20 years. It was part of the foreign aid freeze, then there was a limited waiver that services are disrupted. And UNAID says, if permanently discontinued, there will be another 4 million AIDS-related deaths by 2029. So if you look at that example, which is backed up by data, in 2023, 630,000 people died of AIDS-related illnesses, then perhaps Bill Gates's figures are not wrong. Millions of lives could be lost. First of all, the program, the AIDS medication program is continuing. So your fund more premise is wrong. It is continuing. Now, do you have another example? Not in its entirety.
有一个名为PEPFAR的计划，在过去20年中，被认为拯救了2600万人的生命。这个计划曾被包括在外国援助冻结中，后来有一个有限的豁免，导致服务中断。联合国艾滋病规划署（UNAIDS）表示，如果这个项目被永久中止，那么到2029年，将会有额外的400万人死于与艾滋病相关的疾病。根据2023年的数据，有63万人死于艾滋病相关疾病。所以，如果从这个例子来看，也许比尔·盖茨的数字没有错，可能会有数百万人失去生命。首先，艾滋病药物计划还在继续。因此，你关于资金增加的前提是错误的，它仍在继续。你还有其他例子吗？还没有完全。
The program, there's a limited waiver, and UNAIDs have said that not all of the services that were previously funded by USAID are continuing. So that's why I put that example to you. Okay, well, which ones aren't being funded? I'll fix it right now. Okay, well, actually, they're all on the UNAID's website, so you'll be able to see them. But mostly they are to do with prevention, and for example, the roll-out of a drug called Glenna Capavir, which was hailed as one of the biggest breakthroughs against AIDS for many years, which came out last year. So if you are perhaps, I'm sure UNAIDs would be delighted if you're able to look at that again. Yes, but if in fact this is true, which I doubt it is, then we'll fix it.
这个项目有一个有限的豁免，联合国艾滋病规划署（UNAIDS）表示，并不是所有之前由美国国际开发署（USAID）资助的服务都会继续得到支持。这就是我提出这个例子的原因。那么，哪些服务没有被资助呢？我现在就解决这个问题。其实，这些信息都在联合国艾滋病规划署的网站上可以找到，你可以查看到。大多数都是与预防相关的，比如去年推出的一种名为Glenna Capavir的药物，这是多年来抗击艾滋病的重大突破之一。如果你能重新查看这些信息，我相信联合国艾滋病规划署会非常高兴。是的，但如果这确实是事实，我觉得不会是这样，那我们就会去解决这个问题。
So finally, your political influence, I wondered whether you have decided yet how much you're going to spend on the upcoming midterms. You spent a lot more money on the last US election than you envisaged when you were speaking here three years ago. Are you going to continue to spend at that kind of level on future elections? I think in terms of political spending, I'm going to do a lot less in the future. And why is that? I think I've done enough. Is it because of blowback? Well, if I see a reason to do political spending in the future, I will do it. I don't currently see a reason. What about political influence beyond the US? How often do you speak to President Putin?
所以，最后关于您的政治影响力，我想知道您是否已经决定要在即将到来的中期选举中花多少钱。您在上次美国大选中的花费比您三年前在这里谈到时设想的要多得多。您是否打算在未来的选举中继续维持这种投入水平？ 我认为在政治花费方面，我将来会少做很多。为什么呢？我觉得我做得已经够多了。是因为受到反对了吗？如果我在未来看到进行政治支出的理由，我会去做。但我现在没有看到理由。那在美国以外的政治影响力呢？您多长时间与普京总统交流一次？
I don't speak to President Putin. You've never spoken to President Putin? I was on a video call with him once about five years ago. That's the only. I don't think I speak to President Putin. I've heard you speak about it. For example, in your West Point speech, you said, oh, I challenged President Putin to was it an arm wrestle? And I know the Wall Street Journal has reported your conversation. If you're saying they haven't happened other than once, I'll take that as red. Is there a worst publication on the face of the Earth and the Wall Street Journal? I wouldn't use that to align up my case for powercraftings. That newspaper is the worst newspaper in the world. If there's one newspaper that should be pro-capitalist, it's the one with Wall Street in the name. But it isn't. So the very lowest opinion of the Wall Street Journal has actually not. And you clearly believe the tribe that you've written in those papers.
我没有和普京总统交谈过。你没和普京总统说过话吗？大约五年前，我曾和他进行过一次视频通话，那是唯一的一次。我觉得我没有和普京总统说过话。我听过你谈论过这件事。例如，在你在西点军校的演讲中，你说过哦，我曾挑战普京总统，是不是比过腕力？而且我知道《华尔街日报》报道过你们的对话。如果你说除了那次之外没有发生过，我就接受这个说法。世界上还有比《华尔街日报》更差的出版物吗？我不会用它来支持我的权力构想。那报纸是世界上最差的报纸。如果有一份报纸应该是支持资本主义的，那应该就是名字里有华尔街的。不过它不是。所以我对《华尔街日报》的看法真的很低。而你显然相信那些你在这些报纸上写的东西。
I read very widely and I'm putting these questions to you so that you have an opportunity to respond to them, which you are and for which we're all grateful to hear your responses. Okay, we are out of time. You mentioned it. I did so on the X platform. I challenged a Vladimir Putin to say, well, I didn't talk to him. That was a post on the X platform. That's why I asked you. And you've clarified and explained. Thank you. That's why I was asking whether you have had reported conversations. And you said you have a doubt of the invitation. I have a call. I can see media lies.
我广泛阅读，并向您提出这些问题，以便您有机会作出回应，而您也确实回应了，对此我们都非常感激。不过，我们时间到了。您提到过这一点，我是在X平台上提的。关于我挑战弗拉基米尔·普京的问题，我没有和他直接谈话，那只是在X平台上的一则帖子。所以我才问您。您已经澄清并解释了，谢谢。这也是为什么我问您是否有过报道中的对话。您说您对邀请持怀疑态度。我有一个电话，我能看出媒体的谎言。
Okay, listen, I actually thought I might give Groc the last word. Because when I asked Groc what your hardest challenge is, it said the strain of managing multiple high-stake ventures amid financial regulatory and public relations crises. And I wondered whether you recognized that characterization and whether you do think that this is a pivotal year in your life. Well, every year has been somewhat pivotal. And this one is no different. So, I mean, in terms of interesting things that probably are accomplished this year, the getting stoshed to be fully reusable so that we catch both the booster and the ship, which will be the first fully reusable orbital rocket ever in history, which is would be a profound breakthrough as the essential breakthrough necessarily to make life multi-planetary and ultimately become a space-faring civilization.
好的，听我说，其实我想让Groc来说最后一句话。因为当我问Groc你面临的最大挑战是什么时，它回答说是在面对财务监管和公共关系危机的同时管理多个高风险项目的压力。我想知道你是否认同这样的说法，以及你是否认为这一年是你人生的一个关键时刻。嗯，每一年对我来说都很关键，今年也不例外。说到今年可能会完成的有趣事情，那就是让"Stoshed"完全可重复使用，这意味着我们可以捕获助推器和飞船，这将是历史上第一个完全可重复使用的轨道火箭。这将是一个深远的突破，是让生命成为多星球化并最终成为一个空间文明的必要突破。
We've got neural link, which is now helped by patients restore capability using the left the implant where they're able to control the computer simply by thinking. We'll be doing our first patient to restore blind, restore site with our blind site implant, which is the end of the serial early next. And I think that that first patient might be in UAE since we have a relationship with UAE and the Cleveland Clinic there. I think was running on the AI front. We are close to what you might call AGI or digital super intelligence. I think we'll see that we are seeing an explosion in digital super intelligence here.
我们有了神经连接技术，现在已经帮助患者通过植入装置恢复功能，他们可以通过思考来控制计算机。 我们将为第一位失明患者进行恢复视力的手术，使用我们的盲人视力植入装置，这将在下一个试验系列结束时进行。我认为第一位患者可能会在阿联酋接受治疗，因为我们与阿联酋和那里的克利夫兰诊所有合作关系。在人工智能方面，我们接近可以称之为人工通用智能（AGI）或数字超级智能的阶段，我认为这里我们可以看到数字超级智能的迅速发展。
And then we've got to Tesla, the will be launching on two-based autonomy, basically self-driving cars with no one in them in Austin next month. So it's a big year for sure. Many other things in the works too. Okay. I mean, technologist first and foremost. Elon Musk, thank you very much for joining us here at Qatar Economic Forum. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'm not sure how I'm going to top that everybody. Michelle, thank you so much for leaving that conversation with Elon Musk. We have now come to the end of today's sessions. It has been an insightful and engaging day filled with wide ranging discussions and debates over the global economy, investments, innovation and the future growth. Thank you. Thank you.
然后我们将进入特斯拉公司，他们将在下个月于奥斯汀推出基于自动驾驶的汽车，也就是完全无人驾驶汽车。所以，今年肯定是个重要的一年。此外，还有许多其他计划在进行中。好的，首先我是个技术专家。埃隆·马斯克，非常感谢您参加卡塔尔经济论坛。谢谢你。谢谢你。谢谢你。好的，我不太确定如何超过刚才的对话。米歇尔，非常感谢您与埃隆·马斯克的对话。我们今天的会议就此结束。这是充满洞察力和吸引力的一天，涵盖了全球经济、投资、创新以及未来增长的广泛讨论和辩论。谢谢大家。谢谢大家。