Destroy Your Mental Limits & Unlock Your Best Self - Adam Grant
发布时间 2025-01-04 16:00:09 来源
What look like differences in natural ability are often differences in opportunity and motivation? What does that mean? Well, I did write that and I think I believe it. So if you look at the history of great talent, we tend to see people at their peak and we assume that they were just naturals. Steph Curry could always drain three pointers. Mozart was a natural musician. And in some cases, if you trace back, these people were child prodigies. And Mozart, I think, was a great example, but for every Mozart, it turns out that there are multiple box and Beethoven's who actually bloomed late and took a long time to improve.
看起来像是自然能力的差异，往往实际上是机会和动机的不同。这是什么意思呢？好吧，我写过这句话，而且我想我相信它。如果你回顾一些伟大人才的历史，我们往往在他们达到巅峰时看到他们，并认为他们与生俱来就很出色。比如，很多人觉得斯蒂芬·库里从小就能投进三分球，莫扎特天生就是音乐家。在某些情况下，如果你追溯他们的过去，这些人确实是天才儿童。但在每一个莫扎特的背后，往往还有很多像巴赫和贝多芬那样的人，他们实际上开花较晚，花了很长时间才有所进步。
And I guess the study that really opened my eyes to this was Benjamin Bloom, looked at world-class athletes, musicians, scientists, artists, and he went back to their childhoods and wanted to know were they innately just brilliant at these skills from day one. And the consistent answer was no. That very often, their early teachers and coaches, even their own parents, had no idea how great they were going to become. And when they did stand out, it wasn't for natural ability. It was because they were unusually passionate. They loved to learn.
我想真正让我对这个问题有更深理解的研究是由本杰明·布鲁姆进行的，他研究了世界级的运动员、音乐家、科学家和艺术家。他追溯到他们的童年，想知道他们是否从一开始就天生在这些领域表现出色。而得到的一致答案是：没有。很多时候，他们的早期老师、教练，甚至他们的父母都不知道他们将来能达到怎样的高度。他们之所以能够脱颖而出，并不是因为天赋异禀，而是因为他们有着非凡的热情，喜欢学习。
And they had early opportunities to get lots of practice in. And I think what that suggests to me is that sometimes we overestimate the importance of raw talent. And we underestimate the importance of creating opportunities that open doors for people and then giving them a chance to actually showcase their enthusiasm. What about motivation? What does that come from in this context? I think in a lot of the cases, if you look at the Bloom study at least, the world-class performers tended to have an early teacher or coach who made learning fun. And I think that's not common for a lot of us, right?
他们很早就有机会进行大量练习。我认为这表明我们有时会高估原始天赋的重要性，而低估了创造机会的重要性，这些机会为人们打开了门，并给予他们展示热情的机会。那动力究竟来自哪里呢？在这种情况下，我认为在很多情况下，尤其是根据布鲁姆的研究，世界级的表演者往往在早期就有一个让学习变得有趣的老师或教练。而我觉得这对很多人来说并不常见，对吧？
Like learning to do scales if you're a musician, doing drills if you're an athlete, it can be a slog. And the idea that this boring task that might just lose your interest or might exhaust you could actually be exciting, it draws you in. It makes you want to keep learning and over time that becomes self-reinforcing because after all, it's hard to like something that you just suck at. Because you gain skill and build up mastery. That's when your motivation begins to really soar.
就像音乐家练习音阶，运动员进行训练一样，这类活动可能会乏味无聊，而这些枯燥的任务可能会让你失去兴趣或者感到疲惫。但实际上，这些任务也可能是令人兴奋的，它们吸引你，让你想要不断学习。随着时间的推移，这种动力会不断增强，因为毕竟，很难喜欢自己不擅长的事情。当你掌握技能并提高水平时，你的动力就会真正高涨起来。
Yeah, when you turn any task into, or any activity into a task that needs to be ticked off, it sort of takes one step toward drudgery, which just doesn't sound fun. Well put. I think I wonder whether people will be uncomfortable to think about motivation as something that's almost bestowed on them by the environment because highly agentic, marriage-to-cratic world, I can make my own way. Yes, but as the other part of it differences in opportunity and motivation and it seems like motivation can quite often be brought about by the right opportunity to.
是的，当你把任何任务或活动变成需要完成的待办事项时，它就有点变得像苦差事，而这种感觉一点也不有趣。我很好奇人们是否会对将动机视为几乎是由环境赋予的东西感到不安，因为在这个讲求自主、自己奋斗的世界里，人们觉得自己可以闯出一片天地。没错，但另一方面，机会和动机的差异也存在。而且似乎动机往往能在合适的机会中被激发。
It's very much out of our hands also. I think that's bad news and good news. I think you're right. The bad news is it makes it feel like your motivation is a little bit out of your control. The good news is that motivation is malleable and if you don't find it on day one from within, it can actually be sparked or stimulated from the outside. And I think what a great coach or teacher does is they help you find your own motivation.
这件事情在很大程度上已经超出了我们的控制范围。我觉得这是个坏消息，也是个好消息。你说得对，坏消息是，这让人感觉你的动力似乎有些不在你的掌控之中。好消息是，动力是可以改变的，如果你在第一天没有从内心找到动力，它实际上可以通过外部因素被激发或刺激。我认为，一个优秀的教练或老师的作用就是帮助你找到自己的动力。
So I've lived this personally. I loved sports when I was a kid. And unfortunately I wasn't any good at all the ones that I if you can't passionate about. I love shooting hoops. I got caught from middle school basketball team in sixth grade, seventh grade and eighth grade. I was a big fan of playing soccer or what you probably call football did not make my ninth grade team.
我亲身经历过这些。我小时候非常喜欢运动。不幸的是，对于我热爱的那些运动，我并没有表现得特别好。我喜欢投篮，但在六年级、七年级和八年级时都没有入选中学篮球队。我非常喜欢踢足球（你们可能叫它「足球」），但我也没能进入九年级的球队。
And basically the last sport that I thought to try was springboard diving. That summer my mom dragged me to a local pool and there was a lifeguard who was an all-state diver. And he was doing flips and twists on his break and I watched him and I was mesmerized. I wanted to learn how to do it. But diving did not come naturally to me. I actually was nicknamed by my first coach Frankenstein because I was so stiff that I couldn't even touch my toes without bending my knees.
基本上，我最后考虑尝试的运动是跳水。那年夏天，我妈妈带我去一个当地的游泳池，那里有一个救生员是全州优秀的跳水运动员。他在休息时做各种翻转和扭身动作，我被他吸引住了，特别想学会那些动作。但跳水对我来说并不是一件容易的事。我的第一个教练甚至给我起了个外号叫"弗兰肯斯坦"，因为我身体很僵硬，连不弯膝盖都没法碰到脚趾。
And I actually walked like Frankenstein. And I didn't jump very high and I was not graceful at all. And I didn't have much explosive power all the things that you want in diving. I go to my first tryout and the coach says do you want the good news or the bad news? And I say definitely the bad news. And he tells me that his grandmother and his grandfather can both out jump me. That you know I don't have the flexibility or explosive power or grace that you look for in a typical diver. I'm like is there good news?
我走路时真的像个"弗兰肯斯坦"，跳得不高，也一点都不优雅，缺乏跳水时需要的爆发力。我去参加第一次选拔，教练问我想先听好消息还是坏消息？我毫不犹豫地说当然是坏消息。他告诉我，他的奶奶和爷爷都比我跳得高，而我也缺乏一个优秀跳水运动员应有的柔韧性、爆发力和优雅。我心想，难道还有好消息吗？
And he says yes. Diving is a nerd sport. It attracted all the people who were too short for basketball and too slow for track and too weak for football. If you want to be good at this, if you pour yourself into this, then I think by the time you graduate from high school, you're going to be an all-state diver. And that just lit a fire in me, right? The idea that this coach who had actually trained in Olympian by that point saw more potential in me than I saw in myself. It made me want to get better.
“他说是的，跳水是一项‘书呆子’运动。它吸引的都是那些篮球太矮、田径太慢、橄榄球太不够力气的人。如果你想在这方面出类拔萃，如果你全心投入，那么我认为到你高中毕业的时候，你会成为一名全州优秀跳水运动员。那句话点燃了我的热情，不是吗？想到那位曾经训练过奥运选手的教练竟然看到了我比我自己还要多的潜力，这让我更想要进步。”
And every time I hit the water and Eric gave me, I'd be like that was bad. How bad? And he'd say I'd give that a three three and a half. We talk about how can I get a four and how can I get a four and a half. And that just made me more and more excited to learn. And I ended up making the state final is not my senior year, but my junior year. And by that point, when I graduated from high school, I couldn't believe it.
每次我跳入水中，Eric 会打分，我会觉得自己跳得不好。他会说，这次我给你打三分或者三分半。我们会讨论怎么样才能得到四分或者四分半。这让我越来越有学习的动力。最后，我在高中三年级时，而不是毕业的最后一年，就进入了州决赛。当我高中毕业时，我简直不敢相信这一切。
I was a two-time junior Olympic national qualifier. And I made the All-American list. And I was being recruited to die at the NCAA Division I level, which I had no business doing. But none of it would have ever happened if Eric Best didn't look at me and say Adam, you're not any good today. But I believe you can be much better tomorrow. It's fascinating. The idea of somebody who believes that your potential is greater than you do. It's such a beautiful idea to have for a friend, for a partner, for a coach.
我曾两次入选少年奥林匹克国家资格赛，并且进入了全美最佳名单。我还被招募到NCAA一级联赛比赛，这本来是我不该参与的。如果不是艾瑞克·贝斯特看着我说：“亚当，你今天不怎么样，但我相信你明天可以更好。”这些成就都不会发生。有人相信你的潜力比你自己相信的还大，这个想法真的很吸引人。无论是朋友、伴侣还是教练，这样的信念都是一种美好的存在。
I'm thinking about potential as an interesting concept. Because what do we mean when we talk about somebody fulfilling their potential? It's this kind of arbitrary, right? You don't know what your potential is. And if you assume that people get as good as they're going to get, and they don't get any better than they're going to get, given that we don't get to split test the world and run it back and try harder or do more or start with a different coach or do whatever, the idea of fulfilling potential, everybody ultimately does fulfill that potential.
我在思考“潜力”这个有趣的概念。当我们说某人实现了他们的潜力时，我们到底是什么意思呢？这其实有点随意，不是吗？因为我们并不知道自己的潜力究竟是什么。而如果我们假设，人们能达到的最好状态就是他们最终能够达到的状态，并且不会比这更好，考虑到我们无法去重新测试这个世界，再试一次、更努力一些、做得更多、从一位不同的导师开始或做其他事情，那么所谓的“实现潜力”这一想法，其实是每个人最终都以自己的方式实现了那种潜力。
It's, is there more potential potential that could have been fulfilled? Potential potential. I love this idea, Chris. I think a lot of people, I think, experience, they feel pressure around this or regret or both. Like, I'm not living up to my potential. And what they forget is that potential is not fixed. Right? Yeah, you, you have a floor that's determined by your current level of skill.
这句英文大意是：“是否有更多未被实现的潜力？潜力中的潜力。我喜欢这个想法，Chris。我想很多人感到有压力或遗憾，感觉自己没有发挥出全部潜力。但他们忘了，潜力并不是固定不变的。对吧？你目前的技能水平决定了你的基础。” 这段话探讨了实现自身潜力的压力和遗憾，但同时也指出了潜力是可以发展的，并不被固定住。
And you have a ceiling, but that ceiling is not set in stone. It's dependent on changes in your skill and shifts in your motivation and the opportunities that are put in front of you. And I think what, what's striking to me is that what I lived as a diver is true for all of us. We all have hidden potential, which is a capacity for growth that might be invisible to you.
你有一个上限，但这个上限并不是固定不变的。它取决于你的技能变化、动力转移以及摆在你面前的机会。而让我感到震撼的是，我作为潜水员经历的这一点对我们所有人都适用。我们都拥有隐藏的潜力，这是一种可能对你来说尚未显现的成长能力。
And it might also be invisible to some of the people around you. And you just haven't recognized it yet. And I think that, you know, so many of us, we confront people who are critics, who basically attack the worst version of ourselves or cheerleaders who applaud the best version of ourselves. And what we want are those coaches who see our hidden potential and help us become a better version of ourselves.
有时候，这种东西对你周围的人来说可能是看不见的，而你自己也可能还没有意识到。我认为，我们很多人都会遇到批评者，他们专注于攻击我们最糟糕的一面，或者遇到只会赞美我们最好一面的支持者。但我们真正需要的是那些能够看到我们隐藏潜力并帮助我们成为更好版本的指导者。
And so I think the question is less, am I living up to my potential? And more, what is my hidden potential and how do I realize it? Yeah. The complement versus criticisms thing is super interesting to me. I think I would identify myself as a criticism hyper responder, that I wait the value of somebody who doesn't like my work significantly higher than a lot of people who do like my work.
我认为问题不应该仅仅是“我是否正在发挥我的潜力？”而更应该是“我的潜在能力是什么？我该如何实现它？”对我来说，赞美和批评之间的关系非常有趣。我觉得自己对批评特别敏感，更在意那些不喜欢我工作的人，而不是那些喜欢我工作的人。
And over time, that can cause you to take more heed from people who don't have your best interest at heart as opposed to the ones that do, which, you know, in the cold harsh light of day, unemotionally, is awful. It's a poor strategy, right? Like that's face it. That's not optimal. But there is something about that.
随着时间的推移，这可能导致你更加听信那些并不真正关心你利益的人，而不是那些真正关心你的人。要知道，在冷静理智的情况下，这是一件很糟糕的事情。这是一种糟糕的策略，对吧？不得不承认，这并不是最佳的选择。但这其中似乎有什么特别之处。
And then I guess on the other side, somebody who takes too much heed from the compliments is never going to have an accurate assessment of where the competence level is at. They're not going to work on the things that they need to perhaps the basics, perhaps going back to the start, perhaps realizing why it is that they're failing. I'm great. I mean, never encountered any problems. Why does this keep on happening to me? This is unfair.
然后，我想，从另一方面来看，一个过于在意赞美的人永远无法准确评估自己的能力水平。他们不会去努力提高自己需要提升的地方，也许是基础知识，也许是重新开始，也许是意识到自己失败的原因。他们可能会认为自己很优秀，从未遇到过任何问题，所以无法理解为什么总是遇到相同的困难，并觉得这很不公平。
And maybe that's where a victim mindset comes from. I'm not sure. Yeah, I think that's right. I think you're being a little too hard on yourself. When you talk about the, the perils of being a criticism junky, which I guess it's, it's on brand. Right. I'm even going to criticize myself for the fact that I'm too responsible for criticism.
也许这就是受害者心态的来源。我不太确定，但我觉得是这样的。我觉得你对自己有点过于苛刻了。当你谈论成为一个批评迷的风险时，我想这也是合情合理的。对，我甚至会批评自己，因为我对批评负有过多的责任。
Yep. Correct. So you're a medic. Permeate states. Permeate state. Well, I get it. But I want to defend it a little bit. I'm thinking about some research that I let fish back did where she finds that novices are more drawn to and motivated by praise. Because they need to believe that they're capable of getting better. Otherwise, it's just too discouraging to be bad at something. But that experts are more interested in criticism. Okay. I don't need somebody to convince me that I can be good. I just want to know how I can get better. So I think that, you know, that, that is a mark of being somebody who's truly driven to master a craft.
好的。你是个医生。这种状态渗透各州。我明白，但我想为其辩护一下。我想起了一些研究，Let Fishback做过的研究。她发现，初学者更容易被表扬吸引并因此受到激励，因为他们需要相信自己有能力变得更好。否则，如果做得不好，就会感到非常沮丧。但是，专家更感兴趣的是批评。好吧，我不需要别人来告诉我我能做好，我只想知道如何能变得更好。所以我认为，这也是一个人真正致力于掌握一门技艺的标志。
I think where maybe you get yourself in trouble from what I'm hearing is you're not filtering out. Well, let me back up his tab and say, not all critics are actually thinking critically. And not all critics are speaking constructively. So there needs to be a finely tuned filter around you said, does this person have my best interest at heart indoors? I agree wholeheartedly with that. I also want to ask, does this person have credible knowledge about the domain you're trying to improve in? And do they have credible knowledge about you? Because somebody who doesn't know your world or doesn't know your potential is not a good judge of what you need to work on.
我觉得，从我所了解到的情况来看，你可能问题出在没有进行过滤。让我退一步来讲，不是所有批评者都在进行真正的批判性思考，也不是所有批评者的意见都是建设性的。因此，你需要一种精细的过滤机制，来评估某人的意见是否真的是为你好。我完全同意这点。我还想补充的是，你还需要考虑这个人是否对你想要提升的领域有足够的专业知识，以及他们是否了解你。因为对于不了解你的世界或者不知道你潜力的人来说，他们并不是判断你需要改进什么的好人选。
Yeah. Yeah. What do you think most people don't realize about where meaning comes from? It seems here like we're talking about this sort of grand sense of purpose, something that pulls us forward. It's kind of structural in the beliefs that we have and the people that are around us. But it's also a little bit more transcendent. It's kind of out there. So from a scientific perspective, when it comes to performance and potential, what do people miss about meaning? I think that meaning is ultimately about mattering. It's about knowing that you're valued by others and you have value to add to others.
是的。你觉得大多数人没有意识到意义的来源是什么？听起来我们在谈论一种宏大的目标感，一种推动我们前进的动力。这在我们的信仰结构和周围的人际关系中都有体现，但它也有更超越的层面，是一种更为广泛的东西。那么，从科学的角度来说，当谈到表现和潜力时，人们对意义有什么误解？我认为意义最终是关于重要性。它是关于知道自己被他人重视，并且自己有能力为他人带来价值。
And I think in a lot of cases, it's pretty abstract and people don't really know, okay, what is my contribution? Why do people appreciate me? So I studied this early in my career. I was studying fundraising callers at the University of Michigan. And they were basically calling alumni and trying to convince them to make donations. And it was a hard, stressful job. You're interrupting somebody's dinner. They yell at you. They're like, I already donated to this school. It's called my tuition. Why are you asking me for more?
我认为在很多情况下，这些事情相当抽象，人们并不真正清楚，"好吧，我的贡献是什么？ 为什么人们欣赏我？" 所以，在我职业生涯的早期，我对此进行了研究。我在密歇根大学研究筹款电话员。他们主要是给校友打电话，试图说服他们捐款。这是一项艰难而有压力的工作。因为你正在打断别人的晚餐，他们会对你吼叫，说："我已经为这所学校捐款了，那就是我的学费。你为什么还要问我捐更多？"
And I went in to try to motivate these callers. And I didn't know that it'll laugh or cry when I saw this sign on the wall that one of the callers had posted. It said, doing a good job here is like wetting your pants in a dark suit. You get a warm feeling, but no one else notices. I mean, talk about a crisis of meaning. Yeah. So I design a simple experiment. It takes five minutes. Some of the callers are randomly assigned to a five minute interaction.
我去尝试激励这些打电话的人。当我看到墙上其中一位接线员贴的标语时，我不知道该笑还是该哭。标语上写着：“在这里做好工作就像穿着深色西装尿裤子。你会有温暖的感觉，但没人注意到。” 这真是意义危机啊。所以我设计了一个简单的实验，只需五分钟。部分接线员被随机分配参与一个五分钟的互动。
A month later, the average caller is spending 142% more time on the phone per week and bringing in 171% more weekly revenue. So to make that more concrete, a month later, after a five minute interaction, the average caller has more than doubled in weekly phone time and nearly tripled in weekly revenue. What happened in that five minute interaction? All I did was bring in one scholarship student who said, because of the money you raise, I am able to afford school.
一个月后，平均每位来电者每周在电话上花费的时间增加了142%，每周带来的收入增加了171%。具体来说，一个月后，在经过五分钟的互动后，平均每位来电者每周的电话时间翻了一倍多，每周的收入几乎增加了三倍。在那五分钟的互动中发生了什么？我只是请来了一位获得奖学金的学生，他说：“因为你筹集的资金，我才能负担得起上学。”
And here's how it's changed my life. And here's how I'm trying to pay it forward. And all of a sudden, the meaning of the work changes. This job is not a job where I'm harassing people and ruining their night. It's a job where I'm enabling students to go to school. And I think that this is something we could probably all do more of. I think it's easy to do a job to lose sight of what your impact is.
这是它如何改变了我的生活，而我又是如何努力回报他人的。突然之间，工作的意义就改变了。这份工作不再是我去打扰别人、毁掉他们的夜晚，而是让我能帮助学生们上学。我觉得这是一件我们都可以多去做的事情。我认为，在工作中很容易忘记自己的影响。
It's worth asking, if my work didn't exist, if I weren't doing this job, who would be worse off? And the people who come to mind, they are the ones who make your work matter. They're the reason that you have meaning in your job. And you can apply this to any role. You can ask that question as a parent. You can ask that question as a community member or a family or a friend. Who would be worse off? If I weren't playing this role, that's where a meeting comes from.
值得思考的是，如果我的工作不存在，如果我没有做这份工作，会有哪些人受到影响？那些你想到的人，就是让你的工作变得有意义的原因。他们也是你在工作中找到意义的理由。你可以把这个问题应用到任何角色上。你可以作为一个父母来问这个问题，作为一个社区成员、一个家庭成员或朋友也可以提问：如果我没有扮演这个角色，会有哪些人受到影响？在这里，你就能找到意义所在。
I wonder if in the world of dashboards and analytics and quantified KPIs, I wonder if much of this particular motivating factor coming from meaning is being missed. I think it is. And one of the things that I found in some follow-up experiments was it didn't help to bring in nine scholarship students. And pretty soon, they were no longer stories. They were statistics.
在如今这个充满仪表盘、数据分析和量化KPI的世界中，我在想，很多来自于意义感的激励因素是否被忽视了。我认为确实如此。在一些后续实验中，我发现仅仅引入九个奖学金生并没有帮助。不久之后，他们就不再是一个个故事，而只是一些统计数据。
And I think you're on to something there that the more that we try to quantify, here are all the metrics we need you to hit. The more you lose sight of, well, this is why I'm doing this work. And here's the way that it might be, if not changing other people's lives, at least affecting their lives. We have an inbound open email contact form on the website. And I kind of had an intuition about this that numbers and stuff are all great. But I really wanted to try and connect with people that listen to the show and sent nice things in. So I got one of the guys to put a print off like 30 emails or something from the last few months. Just he chose some of them and he printed them off and I got to read them in bed. And that was wild to do that significantly more impactful and heartfelt and motivating and meaning generally than going, oh, line go up into the right.
我觉得你提到了一个重要的观点。我们越是努力去量化我们的工作，如设定各种需要达成的指标，就越容易忽视我们做这项工作的初衷，以及这项工作如何影响甚至改变他人的生活。在我们的网站上，有一个开放的电子邮件联系表单。我有一种直觉，数字固然重要，但我真的希望能与收听我们节目并发送好评的人建立联系。所以我让一个同事从过去几个月的邮件中挑选了大约30封邮件打印出来，晚上在床上阅读。这种体验非常特别，比单纯看到数据线不断上升更能引起内心的感动和激励，并赋予工作更多的意义。
I think that's a practice that we should all adopt. And one of the questions is how often should you do it? There's some research on I'm doing random acts of kindness and also gratitude lists, which suggests that daily is less effective than weekly. Wow, why would that be the case? So I think what's going on is that if you start to do it daily, it becomes a little bit mundane and routine. And also it's hard to find those examples that stop you in your tracks. So you're doing your gratitude list and you're like, I'm grateful for my microphone. I'm grateful for my earbuds. Whereas you do it weekly and you've accumulated. You've got some shit. Yeah, you've got something worthwhile to, you know, to really mark the moment.
我认为这是一个值得我们都去践行的做法。其中一个问题就是，应该多频繁地去做呢？有一些研究表明，随意行善和列感恩清单，每天做的效果不如每周做的好。为什么会这样呢？我觉得原因在于，如果你每天去做，它就变得有些单调和例行化。而且，也很难找到那些让你印象深刻的例子。于是，你在写感恩清单的时候，可能会想：“我感谢我的麦克风，我感谢我的耳机。”而如果你每周进行一次，你就会积累起来，找到一些真正值得铭记的事情。
And I think with random acts of kindness, it's similar. You help one person a day and it feels like just a drop in the bucket. You make Thursday your generosity day and you say, I'm going to help five people that day. You really feel like you counted that day. Okay, so one of the other elements here when we're talking about becoming better in really any form is the ability to deal with uncertainty, the ability to grapple with the fact that you don't know how the outcome is going to go and that open loop is going to plague you while it's still like that. And it may cause you to not even begin to take a step toward closing the loop. What have you learned about becoming better at dealing with uncertainty? It's hard. Good luck. It's really hard. I just studied this. I don't know.
我觉得与随机的善意行为是类似的。你每天帮助一个人，虽然感觉只是在大海中投入一滴水。但如果你把星期四设为慷慨日，决定那天帮助五个人，那么你会真的觉得那一天很有意义。在谈论怎样变得更好时，其中一个重要的因素是处理不确定性的能力。你必须面对自己不知道结果如何这一事实，并且这种未完成的状态可能会一直困扰着你，甚至可能让你不敢迈出第一步去解决它。你学到了什么关于更好地应对不确定性的方法呢？这很难。祝好运。这真的很难。我刚刚研究了这个问题，也不知道。
No, I think when I think about dealing with uncertainty around progress, I think the best thing you can do is you can get in touch with your past self. So I'll give you a personal example on this one. I remember I was getting ready to launch my second book. So we're going back almost a decade now and a friend called and asked me what I was doing to celebrate. And I said nothing. And she said why? I said, well, I'm an author. That's what we do. We write books. It's part of my routine. And she said, yeah, but you know, it's not like you write a book every day. Publishing a book is a milestone. What are you doing to save that? And I thought about it and I realized I had completely taken for granted the idea that I was just going to write a book every few years.
不，我认为在应对进展的不确定性时，最好的方法就是会想从前的自己。我来给你分享一个个人的例子。记得快十年前，我正准备推出我的第二本书。这时，一个朋友打电话来问我打算怎么庆祝。我说不打算做什么。她问为什么？我说，因为我是作家，这就是我们做的事情，写书是我的日常工作的一部分。她说，是，但你知道，你又不是每天都写一本书。出版一本书是一个重要的里程碑，你打算怎么保存这个时刻呢？我仔细思考后意识到，我完全忽视了写书每隔几年才完成的这个想法。
And I had no sense of whether my second book was better than my first book. I had no way to gauge whether I had improved in the areas I was trying to grow. And I realized that I had to do some mental time travel and think back to a younger, earlier version of myself. So I went back five years earlier and I said, okay, if that version of me knew that I was going to publish one book, let alone two, that would have been that would have been Nirvana. That would have been a career milestone. And also that version of me would have been really impressed with the progress I'd made in a couple of areas that I thought I hadn't improved at all in the short term.
我无法判断我的第二本书是否比我的第一本书更好，也不知道自己在想要成长的领域是否有进步。这让我意识到需要做一次心灵的“时间旅行”，回想一下更年轻时的自己。我回到五年前，对自己说：“如果那时的我知道自己不仅能够出版一本书，而是两本，那简直就是梦想成真，那就是事业上的一个里程碑。”而且，那时的我会对自己在几个方面取得的进步感到非常惊讶，尽管短期内我觉得自己并没有提高。
And I think that that's one way of managing uncertainty, right? Is to say, okay, if a younger version of me is proud of where I am right now, that is a sign that I've grown. And if that earlier version of me isn't proud of the progress that I've made, it might be time to change courses. Yeah, it's fascinating. I wonder how many people would have loved to have had themselves now as a role model when they were a kid. And that just totally blind to it. I think that's a beautiful way to frame it. And I think that if you are at a point where you're a great role model for your younger self, that's, I think that that is a sign that you've not only achieved something worth doing, but you've probably developed a set of values and demonstrated a level of character.
我认为这是一种应对不确定性的方法，对吧？可以这样想：如果年少时的我为我现在的状态感到骄傲，那就是我成长的标志。如果年轻时的我对我取得的进步感到不满，可能是时候改变方向了。这很有意思。我想知道有多少人会非常乐意在小时候以现在的自己为榜样，却完全没有意识到这一点。我觉得这是一个很美好的思考方式。我认为，如果你已经成为年轻时的自己可以效仿的榜样，那不仅说明你已经达成了一些值得去做的事情，还意味着你很可能发展了一套积极的价值观，并展现了一定的人格魅力。
And I think that is worth appreciating. And I think that in the moment it's really hard to know whether you're moving in the right direction. And I think a lot of us get frustrated when you talk about uncertainty. It's frustrating to feel like, well, I don't have a map because the challenge I'm trying to take on is amorphous or the goals that I'm setting, they're ambitious enough that I don't know exactly what. the steps are to get from where I am today to where I want to be in the future. And I think it's not realistic to have a map in a dynamic and uncertain world, which what's much more plausible is to have a compass, which is to ask, is this the right next step? Does it feel directionally correct? Is it taking me closer to my values and my goals or is it moving me away from those? Is it making me more like the people that I admire or less like them?
我觉得这值得赞赏。我认为，在当下，很难知道自己是否朝着正确的方向前进。许多人在面对不确定性时会感到沮丧，因为这种感觉很烦人。就像觉得自己没有地图一样，因为要应对的挑战没有明确的形状，或者设定的目标太有野心，以至于不知道如何从今天的位置走到未来的目标。我觉得在一个动态且不确定的世界里，拥有一张地图是不现实的，更可行的是有一个指南针。这个指南针让我们去问，这是不是正确的下一步？这样做感觉方向对吗？是让我们更接近自己的价值观和目标，还是让我们远离它们？它是让我们变得更像我们敬佩的人，还是变得不像？
And I think that that compass is, is frankly all we need and it's much more realistic than the perfect map. Is there a line between this comfort with uncertainty and comfort with the idea of failing, of taking risk of being a little bit more daring? I think so. I think that the fear of failure stops a lot of people from growing, right? What happens is you don't want to embarrass yourself and you don't want to take a blow to your self-esteem. So you basically start to keep doing the things you're already good at. And over time, you become more and more concerned about making a mistake. You become increasingly perfectionistic. Your comfort zone gets smaller. And you don't benefit from trial and error.
我认为那个指南针就是我们所需要的一切，比完美的地图现实得多。面对不确定性的舒适感和接受失败、冒险的舒适感之间有界限吗？我想是有的。我认为对失败的恐惧阻止了很多人的成长。因为你不想让自己难堪，也不想打击自尊，所以你开始只做自己已经擅长的事情。随着时间的推移，你会越来越害怕犯错，变得更加追求完美，你的舒适区变得越来越小，也无法从试错中获益。
So one of the ways that I've tried to navigate this recently is I actually have a goal of having three things fail every year. Okay. I'll be going on this here. I've only had two so far, so I need to, I need to step on the gas. I don't set out trying to fail at anything. Let's be clear. I'm not like, all right, let me take on a project that is deliberately going to bomb. Rather, what I'm trying to do is set the expectation that if I don't have three projects fail, it means that I'm not aiming high enough and I'm not stretching myself far enough. And the upside of that then is that when something does crash and burn, I can say, okay, that checks off one of the failures for 2024 or 2025.
最近我尝试应对这种情况的方法之一是，我给自己设定了一个目标，那就是每年有三个项目失败。好吧，今年我只失败了两个，所以我需要更努力一点。我要澄清一下，我并不是故意去让某个项目失败。并不是说我要去找一个必定会失败的项目来做。相反，我设这个目标是为了提醒自己，如果没有三个项目失败，这可能意味着我没有将目标定得足够高，或者没有足够挑战自己。这样一来，当某个项目确实失败时，我可以安慰自己说，好，这算是2024年或2025年的一个失败任务。
And I think that, look, we're all going to fail in a few things if we are pushing ourselves. And I think expecting that makes it a lot easier to stomach. Is not failing regularly or at least not failing intimately? Is that an indication that you could be taking a little bit more risk? I think so. I think if at first you don't succeed, it's a sign that you're actually aiming high enough. And if you are consistently either hitting your goals or exceeding your expectations, it probably means you could be pushing yourself a little bit farther or you could be at least trying something that's a little bit less familiar and easy for you.
我认为，如果我们在不断挑战自己，失败几次是很正常的。期待有可能失败反而能让我们更容易接受这些挫折。如果很少失败或者从未经历过失败，是不是说明我们可以承担更多的风险呢？我认为是这样的。我认为如果你一开始没有成功，那说明你的目标其实定得够高。而如果你总是能够轻松实现目标或超出预期，那这可能意味着你可以再多推动自己一些，或者至少尝试一些对你来说不太熟悉和容易的事情。
How debilitating is failure if we encounter it versus how we feel about it when fearing it in advance? I don't know if there's been any studies done on this. The fear of failure versus the sensation of failure or the experience of failure. Yeah, I think you've already anticipated where my favorite research on this goes. So this is Dan Gilbert and his colleagues, group of psychologists. Gilbert and Wilson, I think, are two of the best. What they show is the study was called Affective Forecasting, which is you make a prediction about how you're going to feel if something bad happens. And you wait for some of those bad things to happen and then you follow people and ask them, how do you actually feel?
遇到失败时的无力感与提前害怕失败时的感受有多大不同？我不确定是否有相关研究探讨过这个问题。害怕失败与真正经历失败时的感觉之间的差异。这正是我最欣赏的研究方向之一，主要由心理学家丹·吉尔伯特及其同事展开研究。我认为吉尔伯特和威尔逊是其中的佼佼者。他们所进行的研究被称为情感预测。也就是我们会预测如果某件不好的事情发生时自己的感受，然后在一些坏事真的发生后，他们会跟踪并询问人们实际上有什么感受。
And most of us dramatically overestimate how much failure is going to sting and also how long that sting is going to last. So one of the places where we're Dan and this colleague studied this was with professors who are about to go up for tenure. And this is the ultimate gauntlet as an academic. If you succeed, you get to keep your job and you have lifetime job security. If you fail, you probably have to move. Your reputation is in tatters. And you feel like you just couldn't cut it in your field and maybe you should choose an entirely different career. And now you don't know if you'll ever have that permanent job security.
我们大多数人都严重高估了失败带来的痛苦程度，以及这种痛苦会持续多长时间。丹和他的同事在一项研究中探讨了这个问题，研究对象是即将申请终身教职的教授。这对于学术界来说是一个极大的考验。如果成功了，你就能保住工作并获得终身的工作保障；如果失败了，你可能需要搬家，名声受损，还会觉得自己在这个领域没能立足，也许得考虑完全不同的职业。而且你会开始怀疑自己是否还能获得那种永久的工作保障。
So not surprisingly, people think on average it's going to take five years for them to recover from that blow. But within six months, most people have bounced back. And I think this is a general finding in research on resilience more broadly. George Bonanno and his colleagues have shown that the default response to adversity is not PTSD. It's not chronic stress. It's actually resilience. That most people take most setbacks in stride because we have what's called a psychological immune system. Just like a physical immune system. Our minds generate antibodies to help us make sense, find meaning, and move forward. And that doesn't mean these things don't hurt. But it also means that we're less broken by our own mistakes and setbacks than we think we are.
所以，不出所料，人们平均认为他们需要五年时间才能从那次打击中恢复。但实际上，大多数人只需六个月就能反弹。我认为这是关于韧性研究的一个普遍发现。乔治·博南诺及其同事表明，对逆境的默认反应不是创伤后应激障碍（PTSD），也不是长期压力，而是韧性。大多数人能够从容地应对大多数挫折，因为我们拥有类似于生理免疫系统的心理免疫系统。就像身体免疫系统一样，我们的大脑会产生“抗体”来帮助我们理解、找到意义并继续前行。这并不是说这些事情不会造成伤害，但这也意味着，我们并没有我们想象中那么容易被自己的错误和挫折击垮。
Adam Masriani says that tragedy plus time equals comedy is as close to an equation that the human brain has got. That psychological immune system. The fact is while that in advance of a thing, you can cause yourself to ruminate so much that you're terrified of it happening. But the actual pain of the thing occurring lasts for way shorter than the story that you told yourself before and the rumination that you have afterwards. So you very much are optimizing for this microcosm peak that isn't as high as you think and doesn't last for as long as you think and isn't as bad as you think. And then even after that, maybe six months, a couple of years down the line, you can laugh about it.
Adam Masriani说，“悲剧加时间等于喜剧”几乎是人类大脑能够理解的一个等式，类似于一种心理免疫系统。事实是，当你预见某件事情时，你可能会过度思考，以至于对其发生感到恐惧。但当事情真的发生时，其带来的痛苦其实比你事先构想的故事和事后的反刍要短得多。因此，你实际上是在为一个不那么高、不那么持久也不那么糟糕的高峰时刻做准备。甚至在事情过去六个月或几年后，你可能会对此感到好笑。
But you've got this great quote, the attitude that helps most with intense stress is not mindfulness, it's hope. In hard times, it's overwhelming to live only in the present. What brings strength is anticipating a brighter future. Resilience lies in remembering that today's burdens may be lighter tomorrow. Yeah, I mean, look, Adam would know Dan Gilbert was his mentor. I love his blog, experimental history. He's phenomenal, dude. I love that guy. Yeah, his insights are fascinating and the writing is just so engaging and entertaining. And I think this is a fundamental truth, right, which is we are really bad at mental time travel.
这段话中有一句很棒的名言，那就是：在面对极度压力时，最有帮助的态度不是正念，而是希望。在困难时期，只活在当下会让人感到压倒性的负担。真正带来力量的是对美好未来的期盼。韧性在于记住今天的负担明天可能会减轻。是的，我的意思是，Adam 肯定了解这些，因为 Dan Gilbert 是他的导师。我喜欢他的博客《实验历史》。这个人真是了不起，我非常喜欢他。他的见解引人入胜，写作风趣生动。我觉得这是一个基本的真理，我们在心灵时间旅行方面其实很不擅长。
So we talked about going backward to get in touch with your past self. The other thing you can do is you can fast forward and think about your future self. And what most people realize when they think about, okay, how much will 20 years in the future me really care about how much you can do about the presentation that I'm giving tomorrow or the bad performance review that I got yesterday, it gives you a little bit of perspective. That distance allows you to say, you know what, I'm probably not going to care that much. And you can do it, moving back and forth between the past and the present.
我们谈到了通过回顾来与过去的自己联系。你还可以快进，思考一下你的未来。当大多数人考虑，未来20年的我是否真的会在意明天的演讲或昨天的糟糕表现评价时，就会获得一些新的视角。这样的距离让你明白，可能那时我并不会那么在意。你可以在过去和现在之间来回调整自己的心态。
Think about the failure that you just agonized over a year ago or three years ago. How often do you think about it now? You eat away at you every day. For the most part, the answer is no. Although I just in the spirit of candor, the die by missed my senior year state meet still bothers me. Still haunts me yeah, go tell him. It was my best dive. I can't believe I missed my front two and a half. But it's also a really good reminder that unpleasant emotions are teachable moments. That pain is there to teach me a lesson, right? It's like a loot. It's a tutorial and better preparation.
想想你一年前或三年前让你痛苦不已的失败。现在你还经常想起它吗？每天都在侵蚀着你的生活吗？大部分情况答案是否定的。不过，坦诚地说，错过我高三那年州比赛的跳水比赛仍然困扰着我。是的，我的最佳跳水动作，我无法相信错过了我的前翻两周半动作。但这同时也是一个很好的提醒，告诉我：不愉快的情绪是一个可以学习的时刻。这种痛苦是在教给我一个教训，对吗？就像是一个教程，它教会我如何更好地准备。
It's a seminar in, you know, in sort of managing pressure. And the lessons that I learned missing my best dive and the biggest meet in my life have helped me avoid making much bigger mistakes when the stakes are much higher. So bizarre that sometimes things that were the worst thing that ever happened to you in retrospect or the springboard or diving board or the kindling, you know, the spark that sort of lights something that causes you to make a change that in retrospect, you was the inflection point or one of the big inflection points in your entire life.
这是一场关于压力管理的研讨会。我从错过一生中最重要比赛中最佳一跳的经历中学到的经验，帮助我在更高风险的情况下避免了更大的错误。有时候，反而是那些看似人生中最糟糕的事情，成为了你改变的起点或触发点。回头看，这些事情可能成为你人生中的一个重大转折点，甚至是其中的几个关键转折点。
If it's not, right, I think you probably haven't done justice to the opportunity to grow from what went wrong. I think that I'm a big fan of learning from success, not just from failure. But empirically, failure is a better teacher on average than success. There's a Madison and Desai study of the orbital launch industry that I think puts a point on this, where they basically study every organization that has ever launched a rocket into space over half a century. And what they want to know is when do you make a leap forward in your success rate? And the answer is it's after a really big fail.
如果事情没有得到妥善处理，我想你可能没有充分利用这个机会去从错误中成长。我认为，不仅要从失败中学习，我也是从成功中学习的忠实支持者。但是，从经验来看，失败通常是比成功更好的老师。麦迪逊和德赛对轨道发射行业的研究很好地说明了这一点。他们研究了半个多世纪以来每个成功将火箭送入太空的组织，想知道什么时候成功率会有大的进步。答案是：在经历了一次重大失败之后。
Because, you know, and like a small failure, you can explain it away, you can move on really quickly. A big failure forces you. It stops you in your tracks to do the post-mortem. And to ask yourself, okay, what went wrong there? And how are we going to prevent that moving forward? And I think obviously we all need to do these when we flop. But I've become a big fan also of doing pre-mortems, which Gary Klein has studied. So the idea of a pre-mortem is you say, okay, we're about to make a big decision as a group. Or, you know, I've got a big choice in front of me. And let's assume in the next few years, with the benefit of hindsight, we conclude this was an unmitigated disaster. What are the most likely causes of that failure? When you have that conversation up front, or when you do that reflection up front, you get better at seeing around corners and anticipating what might go wrong.
因为你知道，小失败的话，你可以解释，然后很快就能继续向前。但大失败会迫使你停下来进行事后分析，问问自己，好吧，这次哪里出了问题？我们要如何防止类似问题再次发生？我觉得显然，当我们失败时，都需要这样做。但我也成为了事前分析的拥护者，这是Gary Klein研究的一种方法。事前分析的想法是说，好吧，我们即将做一个重大的决定，或者我面临一个重要的选择。假设在接下来的几年中，我们有了后见之明，得出这是一个不可挽回的灾难，那么最可能导致失败的原因是什么？当你在一开始就进行这样的对话或反思时，你就更擅长预测可能出现的问题。
And then you can actually prevent it from happening in the first place. And I think there's a version of that that's a little bit like the opposite of what psychologists call post-traumatic growth, where, you know, something awful happens to you. And you're not grateful that it happened, but you damn well commit that you're going to grow from it. Well, I don't think we always have to go through trauma to get the growth, right? You could have pre-traumatic growth, where you anticipate the things that could go horribly. And then try to prepare yourself for the lessons that those events might teach you. I suppose the danger, the fear that people get stuck in who have that fear of failure, is the pre-mortem, but without the lessons.
然后，你实际上可以在一开始就阻止它发生。我认为，这种想法有点像心理学家所说的“创伤后成长”（post-traumatic growth）的对立面。在“创伤后成长”中，当某些糟糕的事情发生在你身上时，你并不感激它的发生，但你会努力承诺自己会从中成长。不过，我认为我们并不总是需要通过创伤来实现成长，对吧？你可以实现“创伤前成长”（pre-traumatic growth），即提前预想到可能发生的糟糕事情，并尝试为那些事件可能带来的教训做好准备。我想，对于那些害怕失败的人来说，危险在于，他们可能会陷入一种“预先验尸”（pre-mortem）的状态，却没有从中获得任何教训。
It's just ruminating on all of the things that could go wrong without using them as a, well, they haven't gone wrong yet. And the fact that I've become aware of the fact that they might go wrong and potentially identified them and broken them down, hopefully makes them less likely that they're going to, this is a cause for celebration, not one for concern. That's the plan. So in psychology, my favorite definition of worrying is attempted problem solving. And I think the attempted is the part that sometimes we forget, right? You don't always solve your problem by worrying. But you are able to see it more clearly as you worry about it. And then the goal is to make a distinction between reflection and rumination.
这段话的意思是：只是在思考所有可能出现的问题，而不是因为这些问题还没发生就不去理会。而且，我已经意识到这些问题可能发生，并试图识别它们、分析它们，希望这会降低它们发生的概率。这是一件值得庆祝的事情，而不是需要担心的地方。这是计划。因此，在心理学中，我最喜欢的对"担忧"的定义是尝试解决问题。而我们有时会忘记"尝试"这个环节，对吧？担忧并不总能解决问题，但通过担忧，我们能更清楚地看清问题。目标是要区分反思和反刍思维。
I think for a lot of people, this is a slippery slope. You do the pre-mortem. You start to imagine all the things that could go wrong. And then pretty soon, like you're staying up all night, you know, just in a panic, in a cold sweat, that all of your fears are going to come true. And I think the difference between that and reflection is in reflection, you're actually having new thoughts as opposed to recycling the same old ones. And so one of my heuristics on rumination is if you're thinking about a future event that might go wrong, and you haven't had a new idea for how to prevent it or address it in the last five to ten minutes, it is time to either move on or talk to somebody else about it.
我认为对许多人来说，这是一种滑坡效应。你进行事前分析，开始想象所有可能出错的事情。不久之后，你可能彻夜难眠、冷汗直流，担心所有恐惧都会成真。我觉得这与反思的区别在于，反思中你会产生新的想法，而不是反复思考同样的内容。因此，我对反复思考的一个判断方法是：如果你在思考一个未来可能出错的事情，而在过去五到十分钟内没有想到预防或解决的新点子，那就该转移注意力或者与他人聊聊了。
And I like one of the things that psychologists have studied is the idea of just creating worry time windows, where you put a 30 minute block on your calendar. I do not like these right before bedtime, but maybe mid-afternoon when you feel like you're in that post-lunch food coma, you block out a 30 minute worry time window. And any worries that come to you either before that or after that, you write them down, and you give yourself permission to revisit them during a worry time window. And that basically clears your mental deck to focus your attention and your energy on the things that matter.
我喜欢心理学家研究的一个概念，即设立一个“忧虑时间窗口”。这个方法是在日历上安排一个30分钟的时间段，比如可以选择下午时段，而不是在睡前运用，因为午后的时候我们可能会有午饭后的倦怠感。在这个30分钟的忧虑时间里，你可以专注于处理所有的烦恼。任何在这个时间段前后出现的担忧，你都可以先记下来，并在这个专门的忧虑时间再次审视它们。这样做实际上是为了清理你的思绪，让你能够将注意力和精力集中在重要的事情上。
And then you figure out, okay, how am I going to use that worry time productively? Is there somebody who's a good problem solver with me? Is there somebody who's good at helping me manage my emotions? And I think that might be the intervention that more people ought to try. It sounds like it's just for kids, but it actually works for adults in a lot of cases. It feels like vulnerability sort of has a role to play here. This stark awareness of our own shortcomings. I think you talk about being secure enough in your strengths to show your weaknesses.
然后你要想想，如何能有效地利用这些担忧的时间。有没有人擅长和我一起解决问题？有没有人善于帮助我管理情绪？我认为这可能是一种更多人应该尝试的干预方法。听起来好像只是为孩子准备的，但实际上，在很多情况下这对成年人也有效。脆弱似乎在这里发挥了一定的作用，这是一种对自身不足的清醒认识。我认为你可以在充分发挥自己长处的同时，也勇于展示自己的弱点。
Why, what's the role there of vulnerability? Well, I think we need people to tell us how we can improve. This goes back to, let's turn our critics and our cheerleaders into coaches. And one of the things I've found in research with Constantino's Coutieferis is a lot of people, even if you ask them for feedback or for advice, they do not tell you the truth. They're afraid of hurting your feelings, they don't want to damage the relationship. It's uncomfortable. And so they end up either biting their tongues or sugarcoding. And they're doing you a disservice, they're depriving you of a chance to learn.
为什么说脆弱性在其中扮演着重要角色呢？好吧，我认为我们需要有人告诉我们如何改进。这与其说是批评者和支持者，不如说是教练。而我在与Constantino's Coutieferis的研究中发现，即便你向别人征求反馈或建议，他们也往往不会说实话。他们害怕伤害你的感情，不想破坏关系。这种情况令人不安。因此，他们要么选择闭口不言，要么美化事实。然而，这样做反而弊大于利，因为他们剥夺了你学习和进步的机会。
So what we found is that one of the ways you can get people to open up and be candid with you is actually to criticize yourself out loud and say, okay, here's the things that I... think I need to get better at. And it feels a little vulnerable. I had a leader tell me after I was describing some of the results of our experiments and how helpful it was for a boss just to say, here's the stuff I've been told I'm bad at that I'm working on. This leader said, well, I don't want to do that because I don't want the people around me to find out what I'm bad at. And I'm like, I have some news for you. They already know. The people in your orbit, they already know what you're bad at. You can't hide it from them. You might as well get credit for having the self-awareness to see it and the humility and integrity to admit it out loud.
我们发现，让人们对你敞开心扉并坦诚交流的一种方法是公开批评自己，比如说："这些是我觉得我需要改进的地方。" 这样做可能会让你感到有些脆弱。我告诉一位领导我们的实验结果，并且说明让上司坦诚说出别人告诉他的一些不足之处以及他正在努力改进的情况是多么有帮助。这个领导说，他不想这样做，因为他不希望周围的人知道他的缺点。我跟他说，其实我有个消息要告诉你，他们已经知道了。你周围的人早就知道你的不足之处，你无法对他们隐瞒。倒不如主动承认，借此显示出你具备自我认知能力以及承认不足的谦逊和诚实。
And that's one of the interesting findings in our data is that when you talk about your own shortcomings and your opportunities for improvement, you're not just claiming that you can handle the truth. You're actually proving you can take it. And so that gives other people the psychological safety to tell you the things that you may not want to hear, but you actually need to care. And you don't lose anything by doing that. They don't see you as less competent. They actually, in some cases, see it as a sign of confidence. Like, wow, you must be really secure. And you know, what you're already good at and your ability to grow, that you're willing to talk about where you're bad at.
在我们的数据中，一个有趣的发现是，当你谈论自己的不足和改进的机会时，这不仅仅是在声称你能接受事实，而是实际上证明了你有能力面对这些问题。这种做法给了别人一种心理上的安全感，让他们可以告诉你那些你可能不想听但实际上需要关注的事情。而你这样做并不会失去任何东西。人们不会因此认为你的能力较差，实际上在某些情况下，他们可能会把这视为自信的表现。比如，他们会想：哇，你一定很有安全感，很清楚自己的长处和成长的能力，所以才愿意谈论自己的不足之处。
Yes, you had a tweet the other day where you were talking about how people think that you saved time by shortening downwards but the subtext of what it actually tells people is that you just didn't care about them enough to write something out more verbatim. And this is kind of the same, that on the surface, maybe it feels like an admission of your shortcomings, but what it actually comes across as is comfort and acceptance in your strengths. So much so that you can talk about the things that you know, that you're bad at or that you think that you need to work on. So important. And you know, it's, I think it's something that we don't do often enough.
是的，你前几天发了一个推文，你在里面谈到，人们认为你通过缩减内容节省了时间，但其潜台词实际上是在告诉人们你其实并不够在意他们，才没有更详尽地表达。而这与我们谈论的内容很像，表面上看，这可能像是承认自己的不足，但实际上，它传达出的是对自身优点的舒适与接受。你如此坦然，以至于可以谈论那些你知道自己不擅长的或需要努力改进的地方。这非常重要。而且我认为，我们不常这样做。
And so it feels scary and it really hurts when somebody does level with us. You know, if you only have a quarterly performance review or if you only find out how you're letting your partner or your spouse down, like when you're in the middle of a rare, nasty fight, this is the kind of thing that you never really build thick enough skin to handle. And I don't want to over index on my diving experience, but one of the most valuable things that happened in diving is you do 40 or 50 dives in a practice in every single one of them, you can get a score on. And when you get 40 or 50, two and a half, four, five, like nowhere near, you're barely cracking the upper half of the scale on that zero to 10 and diving. No individual score really bothers you.
当有人坦诚地对待我们时，那种感觉既可怕又让人痛苦。比如说，如果你只有在季度绩效评估时，或者只是在与伴侣或配偶发生罕见激烈争吵时，才知道自己令对方失望的地方，那么这种事情是很难让你习惯或坦然面对的。我不想过多强调我的潜水经验，但潜水时最有价值的事情之一就是你在每次练习时会进行40或50次跳水，每一次你都能得到评分。当你的分数通常在2、3、4、5分（满分为10分）时，分数并不高，只是勉强过了及格线，而这样每一个单独的评分就不会真的让你感到难过。
And so this is actually a habit that I've adopted. I do a lot of public speaking and as a shy introvert, this is not something that came naturally to me at all. And so early on, I would get off stage and I would immediately ask anybody I encountered, like what's yours are to 10. And no matter what score they gave, whether they gave me a six or a three and a half, I would just ask them, how can I get closer to 10. And I found that very rarely did anyone say 10. And then, you know, they would give me a tip or two. And then I could use that and work on it to improve my score.
这其实是我养成的一个习惯。我经常要做公众演讲，而作为一个害羞的内向者，这对我来说并不是天生擅长的。所以在早期，我每次一走下台，就会立刻问遇到的人：“你给我从1到10打多少分？”无论他们给我什么分数，不管是6分还是3.5分，我都会问他们：“我怎样才能更接近10分？”我发现很少有人会给我10分，然后他们会给我一两个建议。我就可以利用这些建议来提高我的分数。
And anytime I talk to people about this, like, but I don't want to be scored like that. That's devastating. Like, yeah, if you only do it once a year, but if you're getting dozens of scores a week, then it just becomes second nature. And you're actually building your resilience to handle the tough scores and gaining more knowledge to avoid the tough scores. Why people are evaluating you all the time. Don't you want to know what they're thinking and don't you want them to help you grow? You're evaluating yourself all the time and you're also evaluating what you think other people are evaluating you on all the time.
每次我和别人谈到这个问题时，他们常常会说：“但我不想被这样评分，那太令人沮丧了。” 我会说：“如果你一年只被评一次，那当然会这样，但如果你每周都得几十个分，那么这就变成一种习惯了。你实际上是在锻炼自己的韧性，来应对困难的评价，并获取更多的知识来避免得到低分。” 人们一直在对你做出评价，你不想知道他们在想些什么吗？你不希望他们帮助你成长吗？其实你自己也一直在评估自己，同时你也在评估自己认为别人对你的评价。
You know, I wonder, I bet that he thinks that I did well or badly in that thing. It's like put a score in it. Ask them and they can tell you. Yeah, another great prompt for giving a presentation or a talk or whatever and asking people for feedback because again, the desirability for people to not hurt your feelings sort of hold strong typically is if you had to cut 20% from this talk, just tell me what would you get rid of? What would be top of the list? What would be the because for the most part your good stuff is probably going to be good, but the it's the really weak stuff that needs to go first.
你知道，我在想，我猜他认为我在那件事情上表现得很好或者很差。这就像给某个东西打分一样。你可以去问他们，他们会告诉你。是的，这是另一个很好的提议，用于在做演讲或报告时询问大家的反馈。因为通常大家不想伤害你的感情，这种需求通常很强烈。如果你必须从这次演讲中删掉20%的内容，就请告诉我你会删掉什么？排在首位的是什么？因为大多数情况下，你的好内容可能还是不错的，但真正需要首先删掉的是那些确实比较弱的部分。
That's what should be triaged to be thrown out. I love that you pointed this out, Chris. It reminds me of Lady Clots and Gabrielle Adams's research where they show that when you ask people how to how to change. Like, how can I improve? How can our team improve? What most people do is they they add. They give you more things to do. And they forget that our plates are already pretty full and one of the best ways to improve something is to cut away what's not working to subtract to subtract and this sort of addition bias or addiction to always adding things. It doesn't it doesn't help us as often as it seems like it would.
这就是应该优先处理并扔掉的东西。我很高兴你指出了这一点，Chris。这让我想起了Lady Clots和Gabrielle Adams的研究，他们发现当你问别人如何改变，或者如何改进时，大多数人会给你提出更多要做的事情。他们忘记了我们的负担已经很重，而改善事物的最佳方法之一是去除那些不起作用的东西，减法就是减去那些无用的东西。这种总是添加更多东西的倾向或瘾，其实并不像我们想象的那样有帮助。
And so I love your I love your prompt to say, okay, if you were going to cut 20% what is the fat that could be trimmed in this presentation and that creates room then for you know the the gems to actually be polished. I'm thinking about the role of emotions in all of this so much of what we've been talking about been strategies to compensate or ways that we see ourselves and it's the sort of degree of rationality I'm stepping out a little bit I'm sort of above looking down on the situation. But the felt sense day to day is you just swimming in your own hormones and neurochemistry so what.
我很喜欢你的这个建议：如果要削减20%的内容，哪些是可以删减的“脂肪”？这样就能腾出空间，让真正有价值的东西得到打磨。我在想情感在这其中的作用，我们一直讨论的是各种补偿策略和我们如何看待自己，这涉及到某种理性的程度。现在我走出了一步，有点像在俯视整个状况。但每天的实际感受却像是沉浸在自己的荷尔蒙和神经化学反应中，那么这又意味着什么呢？
Well actually I mean you you talk about pessimism not being an effective strategy for protecting emotions that's obviously one compensatory mechanism people become cynical they try to believe that the what they they insulate themselves from having to feel the pain of failure by never just trying in the first place. What do you think about the role of emotions and how people can. Treat them with the respect but objectivity that they probably need to.
实际上，我的意思是，你提到的悲观主义并不是有效保护情感的策略，这显然是一种补偿机制。很多人变得愤世嫉俗，通过不去尝试来让自己不必感受失败的痛苦。那么，你怎么看待情感的作用，人们又该如何既尊重情感，又保持客观呢？
Well let's try to bring this to life what what's a what's an emotion that you often struggle to manage. Or what's the situation where you where you struggle to manage your emotions let's say worry let's say fear in advance of a project happening the concern that it's not going to go well. Okay give me an upcoming project that you're worried about right now three and a half thousand people on stage in London in a week and a half's time. Perfect.
好的，让我们试着让这个更加生动一些。你经常觉得难以控制的情绪是什么？或者在什么情况下你难以管理自己的情绪？比如说担忧，或者在一个项目开始之前的恐惧，你担心这个项目可能不会顺利进行。现在告诉我一个让你感到担心的即将到来的项目。比如说，一个星期半后在伦敦的舞台上有三千五百人参与的活动。非常好。
Okay so what are you afraid of specifically looking silly not performing well thinking less of myself because things don't go well. I'm damaging my credibility proving critics right not proving myself right. That's that's a pretty solid list of fears maybe you shouldn't do the talk. I saw the tickets I cannot do that. Why did you agree to do it in the first place. It's exciting and thrilling and something that in retrospect I'll be proud that I did.
好的，那你具体害怕什么呢？是怕看起来很傻，表现不佳，还是因为事情进展不顺利而看轻自己？是怕损坏自己的信誉，让批评者说中了，而不能证明自己是对的。这些都是非常实在的恐惧，或许你不应该去做这个演讲。我看到票卖出去了，我不能这样做。那你一开始为什么同意去做呢？因为这件事既令人兴奋又刺激，而且回过头来看，我会为自己做了这件事感到自豪。
Okay and let me ask you a couple of other questions just to understand your perspective a little bit more. How often how often have have the fears that you have come true. Very early. When they have what's different about those those events. I probably haven't prepared fully or there was some unseen factor that kind of came out of nowhere I was under slapped I was in a bad mood. I was stressed about something typically the the lovely flat clear water that I was supposed to be performing in got disrupted.
好的，让我再问你几个问题，以便更好地理解你的看法。那些你担心的事情有多频繁会真的发生？如果发生的话，情况通常是怎样的？可能是因为我没有充分准备，或者有一些意想不到的因素突然出现。我可能没睡好，心情不好，或者正为其他事情感到压力。通常，原本平静无波的环境被打乱了。
There we go. I think there's a ton of material to work with here I think the first thing you could do is you could say okay you know there are things that could go wrong. But there are also things that could go right let's not forget that and I think asking why did I commit to this you you had a clear answer to that right it's exciting it's thrilling. There's some upside for you presumably in connecting with your audience and also connecting with the new audience and creating more opportunities for you to get your ideas out there.
好的。我认为这里有很多可以利用的素材。首先，我们可以承认，有些事情可能会出错，但也不要忘记，有些事情可能会顺利进行。我们还应该问自己，为什么我会投入其中？你对此应该有明确的答案，对吧？这令人兴奋和激动。通过与观众和新的受众建立联系，你可能会获得一些好处，也为你创造了更多机会去传播你的想法。
I think that that's got to be balanced so that's one option for emotion regulation is like okay when you're feeling anxiety it's a sign that you care about something that is beyond your control. And let's let's talk about then what the things are that you can control and so you then went to preparation and so you you are potentially defensive pessimists somebody worries about the worst case scenario and then harnesses that anxiety is motivation to prepare. Which is which is why I think we have to we have to remember you like we don't want you to be in a great mood for the next week and a half before before you get on stage because that might actually quell your anxiety prematurely and then you get complacent and you don't do the preparation necessary. And then you're more likely to you know it's a disappoint yourself for others.
我认为，这需要一种平衡。这就是情绪调节的一种选择：比如，当你感到焦虑时，这表明你在关心一些超出你控制的事情。那么我们可以探讨一下你能控制的是什么。于是，你进入了准备阶段，你可能是一个防御性的悲观主义者——担心最糟糕的情况会发生，并利用这种焦虑作为准备的动力。因此，我认为我们必须记住，不希望你在上台前的一个半星期内心情太好，因为这可能会过早地抑制你的焦虑，让你变得自满，从而没有进行必要的准备。这样一来，你更有可能让自己或他人失望。
And then I think the last thing here is like let's you know let's get some psychological distance and ask yourself okay you've been in this situation before what is the base rate of failure is actually pretty low that means you're fairly good at this and you're also mostly prepared. And so that's a reason to be confident that you're capable of you know of controlling enough to have a high probability of success. So I guess those are the range of emotion regulation strategies that would try here which ones resonate with you which ones are more of a struggle for you.
然后，我觉得这里最后要做的是，让我们获取一些心理距离，问问自己，好吧，你以前遇到过这种情况，失败的基本几率其实很低，这意味着你在这方面相当不错，而且你也大多做好了准备。所以，这就是你有理由相信自己能够足够控制局面，从而有很高的成功概率。因此，我想这些就是我会尝试的情绪调节策略中的几个，你对哪种有共鸣？哪种对你来说比较困难？
I don't actually think that I'm that driven by the fear of failure to to go and do the preparation. It's maybe that was it in the beginning and this sort of goes back to what you were talking about before that people may need compliments at the start of their journey but criticisms are more salient the further down that they get. I think that a lot of people are driven that activated by this need to prove themselves to prove their fears wrong but after a while at least for me. You're just so balls deep in these habits and routines and the way that you see the world and this is how I show up and this is what my day looks like and this is how I prepare and so on and so forth.
我其实并不是因为害怕失败而特别努力去做准备。也许在开始的时候确实是这样的，这也与您之前提到的观点有关：人们在旅程的开始阶段可能需要赞美，但随着他们走得更远，批评变得更加重要。我认为许多人被证明自己的需求所驱动，努力去克服内心的恐惧，但是至少对我而言，随着时间的推移，这已经变成了一种习惯和常态。我的日子看起来就是这样，我就是这样展现自己的，我是这样准备工作的，诸如此类。
So I actually think that that as a fuel is something that largely has sort of been let go of for me. Even if some of the fears still persist the motivation to fix the things that will stop the fears I think is has changed a little. That makes sense. And so then I think what drives you is wanting to live up to your own standards and wanting to make sure that you don't fall short of other people's expectations of you. Yeah, I think that would be that would probably be not far off. I think that's a that's a reasonable way to look at it.
所以我觉得，这种动力对我来说基本上已经不再那么重要了。即使有些恐惧仍然存在，但想要去解决那些可能带来恐惧的问题的动力，我认为已经有些改变了。这是可以理解的。因此，我认为驱动你的，是想要达到自己的标准，并确保不辜负别人的期望。我觉得这样看待问题是蛮合理的。
I think the other thing I would say though is like let's go back to your idea of what if you were going to cut 20% what would you cut. I think one of my biggest frustrations on stages like it's really easy to just do your greatest hits and then stagnate. And so in every talk I try to do 20% new material and that's the zone of acceptable failure. I'm expecting that that's that some of that content is not going to land and I'm like there's a there's a line drawn on that right for not doing 50% new material because I want to make sure that 80% of what I'm covering has been audience tested and you know is going to deliver something of value for them.
我想说的是，让我们回到你的想法上：如果你要削减20%，你会削减什么。我在演讲中的最大困扰之一是，很容易只展示你最拿手的部分，然后就停滞不前。因此，在每次演讲中，我都会尝试加入20%的新内容，把这当作一个可以接受的失败区域。我预期其中的一些内容可能不会被观众接受，这就像我们为自己设定了一个"不能做50%新内容"的界限，因为我想确保80%的内容是经过观众验证的，能够为他们带来价值。
But the other 20% like that's my playground that's where I'm experimenting where I'm learning where often you know the most the most exciting improvisation happens. And where we take those random walks and unexpected leaps and so I wonder if part of the way of well if another strategy for managing the fear of failure is to say like there's going to be a you know an element of you know of your performance that is more. It is riskier and so like you're going to assume not everything is going to go right.
但是另外的20%就像是我的游乐场，在那里我进行实验和学习，通常最激动人心的即兴创作就在那里发生。在那里我们进行随机探索和意外创举。因此，我想知道，管理对失败的恐惧的另一种策略是否是承认你的表现中会有一个更具风险的部分。所以，你需要做好心理准备，不是所有事情都会顺利进行。
Yeah again it comes back to that desire for control that if you're trying to do something that you've run 50,000 times before and it goes wrong. It shouldn't have gone wrong so there's no acceptable play baked into the system there's no tolerance for things to be a little bit more unpredictable. But if you do it and you say a lot of part of this that was the entire point of it the entire point of it was to find a little bit more playfulness I love that data that you talked about you said we feel worse when our negative expectations are confirmed the one up positive expectations bring disappointment a recipe perhaps for happiness is planning for the worst while continuing to hope for the best I think that's a lovely juxtaposition.
再次回到那个对控制的渴望，当你尝试做一些已经做过五万次的事情时，如果出现问题，就不应该出错，因为系统中没有留有允许出现偏差的空间，没有对不确定性的容忍度。但是，如果你这样做了，并且发现问题所在，其实这恰恰是重点所在，重点就在于寻找一些更多的趣味性。我喜欢你提到的数据：当我们的负面预期得到验证时，我们会感觉更糟，而正面预期带来的则是失望。或许一种获得幸福的方式是做好最坏的打算，同时继续抱有最好的希望。我认为这是一种很美妙的对比。
I think it's something that we forget so I'll give you another favorite equation from my favorite blogger this is Tim urban who writes that happiness is reality minus expectations. I think that might be the single greatest line in the history of wait but why happiness is reality minus expectations and what that drives home for all of us and supported by a lot of research and psychology is that you if you are disappointed. It means that you are expecting too much but wait you don't want to lower your expectations so you have a paradox here on the one hand to be successful you have to aim really high on the other hand to be satisfied you have to temper your expectations well guess what the only solution I know of to that paradox is to have two targets instead of one you have an aspiration which is extremely high it's the best case scenario that you're hoping for and shooting for you also have on a minimum acceptable outcome which is the if I clear this standard I will feel like it is good enough.
我认为这是我们常常忘记的事情，所以我给你分享一下我最喜欢的博主Tim Urban的一个公式，他写道：“幸福等于现实减去期望。”我觉得这可能是“Wait But Why”历史上最伟大的一句话。幸福等于现实减去期望，这句话所传达给我们的，以及大量的研究和心理学所支持的是：如果你感到失望，这意味着你的期望太高了。但等一下，你又不想降低你的期望，所以这里就出现了一个矛盾。一方面，要取得成功，你必须定下很高的目标；另一方面，要感到满意，你又得降低你的期望。那么，我知道的唯一解决这个矛盾的方法是设定两个目标，而不是一个目标。你有一个非常高的愿景，这是你所希望并努力追求的最佳情况，同时你还有一个最低可接受结果，只要达到这个标准，你就会觉得足够好。
That creates for you this range in which like if I'm between my minimum acceptable and my aspirational I can be happy and most of us don't do that right we either set the acceptable target and then I'm satisfied but I'm not growing that much and I'm not excelling or reset the ambitious goal we don't have the exception we don't have the acceptable result and then we're successful in miserable yeah yeah one of the lines in the talk is congratulations you might be successful but you're also very miserable and it's talking about it's a pretty into the choir here then exactly yeah it's talking we read the same stuff it seems yeah there's this sense that being happy is kind of unsophisticated in some ways areas of the internet that I try and stay away from but that I know maybe that negativity is more refined in some way because you see the true way of the world instead of turning your affect into a protective strategy against appearing naive.
这段文字表达的意思是：为自己设定一个在最低可接受目标和理想目标之间的范围，这样当我在这个范围内时，我可以感到满足。然而，大多数人并不会这样做。我们要么设定一个仅仅可以接受的目标，虽然达成了，但没有太大成长和卓越；要么设定一个雄心勃勃的目标，而没有预备一个可接受的结果，这样即使成功了，可能依然感到痛苦。演讲中有一句话是“恭喜你，你可能成功了，但你也非常痛苦。”对此，很多人有共鸣，尤其是在一些角落里，幸福往往被认为有些不成熟，某种程度上，看似消极的态度被视为更加成熟，因为这样可以让你以防御的态度面对世界，而不显得天真。
People hate to appear naive they do and I think that look there's a there's a long history of evidence that people think that you can be brilliant but cruel and that you know being a critic actually makes you smarter than people who are uncritical because cynical genius is a lot of work cynical genius illusion yeah exactly you've been you've been reading Jamil Zachi I imagine recently and what's fascinating to me about this is like these are these are completely independent qualities right you could do a very incisive thoughtful analysis of why something works and you can also do a lazy uninformed critique of why something doesn't work.
人们讨厌显得天真，我认为，历史上有很多证据表明，人们认为你可以既聪明又刻薄，而做评论家实际上会让你显得比那些不批判的人更聪明，因为玩世不恭的天才需要付出很多努力。这种玩世不恭的天才其实是一种错觉。我想你最近可能在读贾米尔·扎奇的作品。让我感到很有趣的是，这些品质是完全独立的。你可以做出非常深刻且有见地的分析，解释为什么某件事情能奏效；同样，你也可以做出懒惰且缺乏了解的批评，说明为什么某件事情行不通。
So I think we need to separate the quality of analysis and the depth of you know of evaluation that somebody does from the valence right is the assessment positive or negative I think one of the maybe one of the best ways to land in this place and I'm thinking out loud here but I actually think that it should be a discipline to if you're going to criticize something you also have to try to create it because having having been in both roles you know a diver and a diving judge an author and a book reviewer you know teacher and speaker and a student and an audience member one of the overwhelming lessons from Jackson posing those two hats is that criticizing is easy and creating his heart right you can trash a book I wrote in two hours you didn't spend two years creating it.
所以我认为我们需要将分析的质量和评估的深度与评估结果本身区分开来，也就是说，不论评估是正面的还是负面的。我认为，也许最好的方法之一是，如果你要批评某件事情，你也应该尝试创作类似的作品。我在这里的想法还没有完全成型，但我确实认为这应该是一种自律。因为我有过这样的经验，无论是作为一名潜水员还是跳水裁判，一名作者还是书评者，一名老师和演讲者还是学生和观众，其中最强烈的感受之一就是批评很容易，而创作却很难。批评一本书，你可能只需要花两个小时，但创作这本书可能要花两年时间。
And I think that you know the real test of whether somebody is intelligent is not whether they can tear down somebody else's ideas it's whether they can build an idea of their own yeah there is this sense that people sit in the stands and throw stones and I don't know it feels unfair as a person who regularly gets hit in the head by stones you know you kind of want to scream out about man in the arena and blah blah blah but I do think that it's important to remember it and that's you know do the people criticizing you or that have negative opinions or that you fear the judgment of do these people have your best interests at heart.
我认为判断一个人是否聪明的真正标准，不在于他们能否批判他人的想法，而在于他们能否建立自己的观点。有一种现象就是人们坐在观众席上扔石头，对此我感到不公，尤其是作为一个经常被石头砸到头的人，我真想大声喊出“竞技场中的人”之类的话。但我确实认为，重要的是要记住那些批评你、对你有负面看法或你害怕他们评判的人，他们是否真的关心你的利益。
And I think that's the best way to sort of side through all of the bullshit that you receive is like this person on my best interest at heart and if they do then that's a gift from them thank you for telling me this thing and if they don't they doesn't mind what they say yeah so often people they try to remind us to listen to feedback by saying feedback is a gift and sometimes I just want to ask well where's the where's the returns department I didn't this is not the gift that I wanted you don't know my taste and my preferences at all I have no use for this like it's garbage.
我认为，用一种方式去筛选你所接收到的所有废话的最佳方法是，看这个人是否真心为你着想。如果他们是，那么就当作是他们的一份礼物，感谢他们告诉你这些事情。如果不是，那么他们说什么也无所谓。
很多时候，人们试图提醒我们要倾听反馈，因为他们认为反馈是一份礼物。但有时候我想问，退货部门在哪？这不是我想要的礼物，你根本不了解我的品味和喜好，我对此毫无用处，就像垃圾一样。
But I think that pre-committing is also really helpful here so I think in advance about who are the people who's whose opinions of your work and your ideas are really important to you and then seek their input and you know if they're supportive that means a lot and it you know it kind of buffers you against whatever criticism comes in and if they're not supportive you've got some work to do and you know it's coming from a place of one and help you.
我认为预先做出承诺也非常有帮助。提前想好哪些人的意见对你的工作和想法真的很重要，然后去征求他们的意见。如果他们支持你，那对你来说意义重大，这能帮助你抵挡随之而来的批评。如果他们不支持，那说明你还有些工作要做，但要记住，他们的反馈是为了帮助你。
Yeah this is a I loved you said misery is exhausting foster sense of scarcity generosity seems like a sacrifice joy is invigorating it promotes an attitude of abundance giving feels gratifying vitality is kinder than malinkolly but people what is it misery loves its company that you just get used to the way that you feel and it's scary to do anything else I forgot I wrote that one bang up but yeah these these attitudes are self-fulfilling prophecies in a sense.
好的，这段话的大意是这样的：
“是啊，我喜欢你说的那句：痛苦让人心力交瘁，它滋生一种匮乏感，而慷慨似乎成了一种牺牲。快乐让人精神焕发，它推动着一种富足的心态，给予让人感到满足。活力比忧愁要温和得多，但人们常说痛苦爱找同伴，就像你习惯了自己的感受，对尝试其他任何事都感到害怕。我差点忘了我曾写过这段，但确实，这些态度在某种意义上都像是自我实现的预言。”
这段话表达了一种对于痛苦、快乐和人生态度的思考。
I think I see this all the time in my research on generosity that like people who expect the worst in others not only see the worst in others through confirmation bias they actually elicit the worst in others and it goes I guess it's an extension of the cynical genius illusion like if you're a cynical about other people's motives all the time you distrust them and you bring out a version of them that has their guard up and that is not willing to share their knowledge freely with you that's not willing to open up their network to you.
在我的慷慨研究中，我经常看到这样的情况：那些对他人抱有最坏预期的人，不仅通过确认偏差看到他人最糟糕的一面，他们实际上还引发他人表现出最糟糕的一面。这可以说是愤世嫉俗天才错觉的延伸。比如说，如果你总是对他人的动机持怀疑态度，那么你就会不信任他们，从而导致他们也对你保持戒备，不愿意与你分享知识，也不愿意向你开放他们的人脉关系。
You start from the assumption that you know that that most people do not want to screw you and suddenly like you see a kinder more helpful more collaborative version of other people it feels to me like the most important skill in becoming smarter is just trying to be less dumb trying to it does you know so much of the stuff from your work from other psychologists I speak to maybe it's not the entirety of the case but at least the first order the first meal that you're supposed to eat is avoid distrust and I think that's not the only option as opposed to expedite success.
你可以从一个假设开始：大多数人并不是想要欺骗你。当你这样想时，你会突然发现他人变得更友善、更乐于助人、更具合作精神。对我来说，变得更聪明的最重要技巧就是努力让自己不那么愚蠢。这跟你工作中的很多见解以及我与其他心理学家的交流中的内容非常相似。或许这不是全部，但至少最初的步骤应该是避免不信任。我认为，除此之外，还应该寻找加速成功的其他方式。
I think that's accurate and I think probably what gets in the way more than anything else is when Emily Pronen has called the bias blind spot which I like to think of as the I'm not bias bias where you walk around thinking other people have holes in their judgment but me I'm neutral I'm objective I see things accurately I'm rational and if you walk around believing that then that blinds you to seeing all the limitations in your own cognitive processing.
我认为这很准确，而影响我们看问题最严重的可能是Emily Pronen所说的“偏见盲点”。我喜欢把它称为“我没有偏见的偏见”。也就是说，你总是觉得别人判断有问题，而认为自己是中立的、客观的，看事情很清楚且理性。如果你总是这样认为，那么就会看不到自己思维过程中的各种局限。
The scariest thing is if you read the research on this turns out that the higher you score in intelligence the smarter you are the more likely you are to fall victim to the I'm not bias bias because you have a lifetime of positive reinforcement of people rewarding you for being a genius and for being fast at processing information and for you know always knowing the answer and that can make you overconfident to the point of arrogant that you are now ignorant of your own ignorance.
最可怕的是，如果你阅读相关研究，你会发现，智商越高的人越容易陷入“我没有偏见”这个陷阱。因为聪明的人往往一生中不断得到正面反馈，人们称赞他们是天才，信息处理快速，总是知道答案的那个人。这些反馈可能让他们过于自信，甚至到达傲慢的程度，从而对自己的无知视而不见。
And I think it's one of the reasons why so many intelligent people fall victim to the dining crew or effect you should know better you should know that when you're not an expert at something you're going to overestimate on average your knowledge and skill in that area but if you've been told for years or decades that you are better than other people it is hard to recognize when you're actually worse.
我认为这就是为什么许多聪明人容易受到"餐桌效应"影响的原因之一。你理应知道，当你不是某个领域的专家时，你往往会高估自己的知识和技能。但是，如果多年来你一直被告知比别人更优秀，那么当自己实际水平较差时，便很难察觉到。
Yeah I realized that you wrote something much more beautiful than I'd done but on the same topic about how the whole market of expertise is not how much you know it's how well you synthesize and I've had this idea for a while that at one day in sort of late 2010 there was the optimal amount of information available to you.
是的，我意识到你写的东西比我所写的在同一个主题上更美妙，那就是整个专家市场不是关于你知道多少，而是关于你如何很好地综合。我有这样一个想法，即在某一天，大约在2010年末，你可以获得的资讯达到了最优量。
It only lasted a day though. Yes correct we had we had a scarcity we had scarcity scarcity scarcity for all of human history all the way back we knew far less than we wanted we had no idea whether whether it was going to be like tomorrow whether or not there's going to be a earthquake and and then we get to this one day to each 2010 is something like that and then immediately fucking blew through it and then we just ended up in the world that we're in now and you know I love this idea of information foraging I'm not sure if you've come across that yeah so called this analogy.
虽然只持续了一天。然而，是的，正确，我们一直以来都面临着稀缺，从人类历史的起点直到最近，我们总是知道的比我们想要的少。我们不知道明天会怎样，也不知道会不会发生地震。然后我们终于到达了2010年左右的某一天，然后一下子就突破了这种状态，进入了我们现在生活的世界。你知道，我非常喜欢“信息觅食”的这个概念，不知道你有没有听说过这么一个比喻。
They can do some sort of quantitative analysis of squirrels collecting nuts in trees and then the distance from this tree to the next tree and how many nuts are left and the squirrels have this weird sort of inventory in their mind where they say well I've reached a point where each unit of time in this tree is diminishing in terms of its nut return but and that tree based on its distance and my estimated number of nuts in that tree is this and then eventually it breaches the tree.
他们可以对松鼠在树上收集坚果的行为进行某种定量分析，包括从这棵树到下一棵树的距离以及剩下多少坚果。松鼠心中有一种奇怪的库存意识，它们会判断自己在这棵树上花费的时间是否已经到了坚果回报递减的地步，然后根据距离和它们估计的那棵树上的坚果数量来做决定，最终它们会转移到那棵树上。
Threshold and it moves from one tree to the next tree and I think all squirrel cognition by the way right okay classic squirrel cognition and I think that humans are the same information forages you know always under look out I need to find more things it wouldn't just be interesting when this be interesting especially if you sort of curiously driven and then we enter into this world where we're at a permanent 24 hour buffet that is extends into eternity in all directions and we can essentially never leave and yes for a long time we were information scavengers and scourers and now it's much more about being discerning it's about what what do I need to take from this and how does it tie into my bigger web of things because if you just take whatever you can get and permanently do that you're just going to be distracted distracted distracted distracted.
阈值从一棵树移动到另一棵树，我认为这种行为与松鼠的认知很相似。当然，人类也是这样的信息搜寻者，总是处于寻找和发现新事物的状态中。如果你有好奇心驱动，这种探索会变得尤其有趣。我们生活在一个永无止境的信息自助餐世界，一天二十四小时都被信息包围，我们几乎无法逃离。以前，我们像信息的拾荒者一样，而现在我们需要更加挑剔，思考自己需要从中获取什么，以及这些信息如何融入我们的庞大信息网。如果不加选择地接受任何信息，你会一直被干扰，无法专注。
That's profound like that that is modern wisdom personified for I think you've nailed it and Chris I think that I think you're right there was a really limited period of time where optimal information was available and now that now that that is clearly behind us I think our ability to set boundaries on what we consume right I think to raise our attentional filters and block out information that is actually redundant or overwhelming or poor quality that is a vital skill I think that like filtering out is is actually in some ways more important than taking it right.
这真是深刻，这就像现代智慧的化身。我认为你说得很对，Chris，我也觉得你说得对。曾经有一个很短暂的时期，我们能获得最优质的信息，而如今这样的时期显然已经过去了。我认为我们有能力为我们所接收的信息设定界限，提高注意力过滤，排除那些多余的、令人不堪重负的或质量差的信息，这是一项重要的技能。我觉得在某些方面，过滤信息其实比接受信息更为重要。
So my colleague Dan Levinthal writes a lot about absorptive capacity which is a person or an organization's capability to take in new information and I think we're all now drowning information and I want to know how how finally to end is your filter to know what to ignore and what to avoid there's actually now a body of research on what's called critical ignoring which is do you have the discernment like you're talking about to know what to immediately not pay attention to or discount or dismiss and we have to do that faster and faster now is we're bombarded with more information and then I think the other skill here just to build on the synthesis point.
我的同事丹·莱文塔尔（Dan Levinthal）经常写关于吸收能力的文章，这种能力指的是一个人或一个组织接收新信息的能力。我认为我们现在都已经被信息淹没了，所以我想知道你们的过滤机制是如何进行的，如何才能知道哪些信息需要忽视和避免。实际上，现在已经有一系列关于“关键性忽视”的研究，这涉及到你是否拥有辨别力，能够迅速判断哪些信息可以立即不关注、不考虑或忽略。在我们被大量信息冲击的时代，这种能力需要越来越快。还有，我认为另一项关键技能是在整合信息的基础上进一步拓展。
Dan Pink wrote about this I think his most prescient book was a whole new mind which is now two decades ago where he argued that like in a left brain world right brainers were actually going to dominate the future and he named a particular right brain scale that I think now there's a premium on which he called symphony and it's you know it's the ability to take a bunch of different musical notes and arrange them into you know a harmony or a melody and a you know a pleasing you know I shouldn't even do this metaphor because I'm completely clear list about music but that idea of symphony is something now that that gets rewarded in a big way right can you not only cut through all the noise but then you know zoom in on what's really important and connect those dots in a way that other people can you know can understand.
丹·平克在他的一本书中探讨了这个观点。我认为他最具前瞻性的书是《全新思维》，这本书已经有近二十年的历史。在书中，他提出在一个偏重左脑思维的世界里，右脑型的人才将主导未来。他特别提到了一种右脑技能，认为这在现在极为重要，他称之为"交响乐"。这种技能类似于能够将不同的音符组合成和谐悦耳的旋律。虽然我对音乐不太了解，但这个"交响乐"的概念如今正受到高度重视。它指的是能否不仅仅在纷杂的噪音中找到头绪，还能着眼于真正重要的事情，并以其他人能够理解的方式将这些点连接起来。
And I think that you know maybe this is just a variation on your you know scavenger forager analogy but I think that it used to be the dot collectors who were rewarded like the more stuff you knew the the more impressive you were and people saw that as a mark of expertise and now it's the dot connectors who are going to rule the world because they can spot the patterns that are invisible to others and then anticipate those and you know I think that means you have to see the problems in order to solve them in order to see the problems in a complex world you have to connect dots and synthesize.
我觉得这可能是对你那个“拾荒者与觅食者”类比的一个变体。我认为过去是“收集点”的人更受赏识，知道的东西越多，就显得越有学问，大家把这看成是专业能力的标志。而现在，是那些“连接点”的人会主宰世界，因为他们能发现别人看不见的模式，并预见这些模式的变化。我认为，这意味着你必须首先发现问题，才能解决问题。为了在复杂的世界中发现问题，你必须学会连接点并进行综合分析。
Yeah yeah it's a it's a very odd scenario to be in you know in such a short space of time for the primary driving advantage that we were supposed to rely on to have been flipped from one thing to another thing and you know it doesn't surprise me the people are struggling with their attention that they distracted a lot of the time that they feel frustrated at the fact that they can't hold on to they go. For the first time in human history we are swimming in an abundance of of information we're swimming in an abundance of food of sloth of anything you want to have an abundance of you can have it apart from like peace and yeah it doesn't surprise me it doesn't surprise me adaptively we're not built for it and culturally in terms of archetypes we don't have any tools to be able to use well this is fascinating and in some ways it takes us full circle to the beginning of our conversation because a lot of people are you know our I would say fretting that our struggles with attention are a problem of ability.
是啊，是啊，这是一个非常奇怪的情境，你知道，在这么短的时间内，我们原本依赖的主要驱动力从一种东西转变成了另一种东西，这让我不惊讶于人们在注意力方面感到挣扎，他们经常分心，感到沮丧，因为他们发现自己无法专注。人类历史上第一次，我们淹没在信息的海洋中，还有食物的丰富、懒惰，以及你想要的任何东西的丰富，除了宁静，这并不让我惊讶。适应上，我们并不为此而生，在文化上，我们缺乏应对这种变化的工具。这很有趣，在某种程度上让我们回到了对话的起点，因为许多人，我会说，为我们注意力的困扰而感到担忧，认为这是能力的问题。
Like people I hear people say all the time I can't focus kids do not have the capacity to pay attention anymore like they used to well guess what there's a meta analysis that came out this year looking at every study that's been done over several decades where both kids and adults are tested on attention and it turns out that kids are no worse than they were 10 and 20 and 30 years ago and adults are actually better. So we have not lost the ability to pay attention what I think is in short supply is the motivation to pay attention to your point when there are a million distractions you're not going to focus on any one thing for a long period of time like why would you read a whole book when there are lots of interesting articles on the internet but when you find something that grabs your attention or peaks your interest your capacity to hold it has not been diminished.
我常常听到人们说他们无法集中注意力，孩子们再也无法像过去那样专注了。但你知道吗？今年有一项荟萃分析研究，回顾了几十年来关于儿童和成年人注意力的所有研究。结果发现，孩子们的注意力并没有变差，而成年人实际上变得更好了。因此，我们并没有失去专注的能力。我认为真正稀缺的是我们专注的动机。当有无数分心的事物时，你不太可能长时间专注于某件事情。例如，为什么要读完整本书，而网上有那么多有趣的文章？但是一旦你找到能抓住你注意力或引起你兴趣的东西，你保持专注的能力并没有减弱。
Mm one other element I really wanted to touch on was people taking satisfaction from a job well done I found a quote that said I still find myself with this sense that success has to be earned and the only way to earn it is to inflict pain on yourself and if you're not in pain you didn't try hard enough and it would have been better if you'd suffered more and I think that's a lie and I want to find out if it's true. I think that you know I've been doing these live shows I was in Australia recently and we have a Q&A portion at the end and a lot of the questions you know the most common questions how do I know that the thing that I'm doing is the right thing the path that I'm on is the right one I struggle to feel motivated because the people around me aren't into the things that I'm into and it makes me feel lonely and broken and I don't know if I'm going to end up finding a tribe that's into the new stuff and I'm tempted to go back to the old line and then the third one no matter how hard I work I really struggle to ever give myself enough credit for a job well done.
嗯，我真的想谈谈的另一个方面是人们对工作出色完成感到满意。我发现有句话说，我仍然有这种成功必须通过努力获取的感觉，而获取成功的唯一方法就是让自己受苦，如果你不感到痛苦，就说明你没尽力，你本可以更痛苦一些，那样会更好。我认为这是个谎言，我想知道这是否是真的。最近我在做现场演出，去了澳大利亚，我们在最后有一个问答环节，很多问题都是相似的，最常见的问题是，我怎么知道我正在做的事情是正确的，我所走的路是正确的呢？或者，我很难找到动力，因为周围的人对我感兴趣的东西不感兴趣，这让我感到孤独和挫败，我不知道自己是否会找到一个对新事物感兴趣的群体，我也会想要回到老路上。还有第三个问题，无论我多么努力地工作，我始终很难为自己出色完成的工作给予足够的肯定。
Yeah I mean this is this is a perpetual struggle it seems to be especially pronounced in knowledge work where people feel like my work is never done like when have I done enough and I think yeah I guess I'd take a couple things on this first one is my all time favorite experimental history piece is the article Adam wrote on how there's a place for everyone on how to find your niche I think it's a must read. Secondly when have I done enough like how do I know I've made it I think there is there's there's sort of an endless link well let me let me let me try to characterize this with the little bit of an analogy which is I think I don't know if this is going to land or not but you can be the judge I think that I see this a ton with my students I see them like they get into the warden and like they now are going to have an Ivy League degree to carry with them their whole lives and what that means is every time they meet somebody finds out where they went to college that person is going to assume their smart or their motivated or both.
翻译成中文：
是的，我认为这似乎是一种永久的斗争，特别是在知识工作中，这种感觉尤为明显，人们觉得自己的工作永远做不完，总是想知道自己是否已经做得足够。我想针对这个问题，我有几点感想。首先，我最喜欢的实验性历史文章之一是亚当写的那篇关于如何找到自己的定位以及每个人都有适合自己地方的文章，我认为这是一篇必读文章。其次，到底什么时候才算做得足够？我该如何知道自己已经成功了？在这方面，我觉得有一些无尽的联系。让我试着用一个小比喻来形容一下，这个比喻不知道是否能让你有所感受，但你可以自己判断。我在我的学生中常常看到这种情况：他们进入沃顿商学院，就像是一辈子背上了一个常春藤盟校的学位，每次他们遇到新认识的人，对方得知他们的母校后，就会假定他们很聪明或者很有动力，或者两者兼有。
And that could be enough but pretty soon I can start to worry about having the most prestigious job and they think they have to work for McKinsey or Goldman Sachs and if they don't get one of those jobs they have failed and so then they take one of those jobs and then the question is but did I make partner like have I been promoted to managing director and the question that I ask them is how many of those. Well you have to achieve like how many of those badges of honor those merit badges will you need on your resume before you conclude that other people are going to be impressed by you. Like how many times are you going to be seduced by the status of the next opportunity to say well I've got to like I've got to suffer in order to you know to reach that next peak.
这已经足够了，但很快我可能会开始担心拥有最有声望的工作。有些人认为他们必须为麦肯锡或高盛工作，如果他们没有得到这些工作，就觉得自己失败了。所以，他们去做这样的工作，然后问题来了：我升职了吗？我有没有被提拔为董事总经理？我问他们的问题是，到底需要获得多少这样的荣誉徽章或功绩才能让你觉得别人会对你印象深刻。你要多少次被下一次机会的地位诱惑，觉得自己必须要拼命才能到达下一个高峰呢？
And at some point you're going to decide either I've done enough or it's no longer worth it and what I want to know is how do you get to that point sooner. So I had a really interesting conversation once with the author Michael Lewis of money ball and the blind side in the big short. And I asked him you know I said Michael you've you've spent your whole career studying people who achieve extraordinary success like which ones are grounded which ones know how to how to appreciate the distance they've traveled.
在某个时刻，你将决定自己是否已经做得够多，或者觉得再继续下去不值得。我想知道的是，怎么更快到达这样的时刻。我曾经和《点球成金》、《弱点》和《大空头》的作者迈克尔·刘易斯进行过一次非常有趣的谈话。我问他：“迈克尔，你的整个职业生涯都在研究那些取得非凡成功的人，他们中哪些人脚踏实地，懂得欣赏自己已经走过的路呢？”
And he said well I don't see a lot of humility in the world that I you know the worlds that I occupy he said but the people who stay grounded. They they have one thing in common they all have friends from when they're 10 years old. And I don't know whether that's causal right maybe just the kinds of people who are inclined to be grounded are the ones who keep their friends. But I've got to believe Chris that there is a component of this that sort of you know keeps you human and also makes you realize like you are pushing yourself too hard and you don't need to suffer in these ways which is.
他说：“我感觉我所处的世界中，谦逊并不常见。但那些保持脚踏实地的人有一个共同点，那就是他们都有从10岁时就交下的朋友。我不知道这之间是否存在因果关系，也许那些倾向于脚踏实地的人就是能够保持朋友关系的人。但我相信，这中间有某种因素能让你保持人性，让你意识到自己是否过于努力，以及你不需要以这种方式让自己受苦。”
Your friends from 10 years old they don't value you by your achievements they don't define your worth by your success. Like your relationship predates all of that nonsense. So I think those are the best people to keep you honest and I don't think it has to be your friends from your when you were 10. I think it could be your friends from when you were 8. It could be your friends from when you were 14. It might be people you've met who actually don't know anything about your career or your accomplishments or your goals and aspirations.
从你10岁开始的朋友，他们不会通过你的成就来评价你，也不会用你的成功来定义你的价值。因为你们的关系早在那些琐碎的事情之前就已经建立。所以，我认为这些朋友是最能让你保持真实的人。而且，不一定非得是10岁时候的朋友，也可以是你8岁时的朋友，或者14岁时的朋友，也可能是那些完全不了解你的职业、成就、目标和抱负的人。
And I think we all need those people in our lives who value us for our character not for our success. Yeah I think your mum is probably usually a good place to look as well. Like what does your mum want for you in life? She wants you to be content and happy and she loved you whether you were number one or it didn't matter to. So maybe. Maybe I mean yeah the tyrannical tiger mum that wants you to be yes true good point.
我觉得我们生活中都需要那些看重我们品格而非成功的人。没错，我认为你妈妈通常是一个不错的例子。想想看，你妈妈希望你的人生是什么样的？她希望你满足快乐，不论你是不是第一名，她都依然爱你。也许是这样。对，当然也有那些严厉的虎妈，她们希望你成功，这也是个好例子。
Well no I was going to say that is more common than I would have believed there was a there's a making caring common study where you ask parents what they want most for their kids and most parents say I want my kid to be happy and kind. Then you ask their children what are your parents want for you and their kids think that achievement is number one. That their success matters more to their parents than their happiness or their kindness.
好的，我本来想说，这种情况比我想象的更常见。有一项名为“培养关爱”的研究，通过询问父母他们最希望孩子成为什么样的人。大多数父母都会说，他们希望自己的孩子快乐并且善良。然而，当你问孩子们，父母对他们的期望是什么时，孩子们则认为成就是最重要的。对他们来说，他们的成功似乎比快乐和善良对父母更重要。
And I think I don't believe by the way that the kids are right per se or the parents are right. I think that what happens is parents want all these things. We want our kids to be successful and happy and kind and we think that you know if they're successful they're going to be happier which is obviously not always true. We think that success is going to allow them to do more for others maybe maybe not. What happens though is that parents only end up talking about achievement or they they primarily talk about achievement.
我认为，孩子和父母谁对谁错这个问题本身并不重要。发生的情况是，父母有许多期待，我们希望孩子成功、快乐、善良，并认为如果他们成功了，就会更幸福，虽然这显然不总是事实。我们也认为成功能让他们为他人做更多事情，这可能对也可能不对。但结果是，父母最终只是在谈论成就，或者主要在谈论成就。
Yep. How many how many dinner table conversations are what grade did you get on the test. How many goals did you score in the in the game. And when you do that you send an implicit message that what matters above all else is what your kids accomplish. And so one of one of the ways that my wife Allison and I have tried to tried to change that equation is we ask our kids every week who did you help this week and who helped you.
是的，有多少餐桌对话变成了“你的考试成绩是多少？”“你在比赛中进了多少球？”当你这样做的时候，你在无形中传达了一个信息，即最重要的是孩子取得的成就。因此，我和我的妻子艾莉森为了改变这种状况，我们每周都会问孩子：“你这周帮助了谁？”“谁帮助了你？”
And we're trying to to make it really clear to them we don't just want you to be successful. We want you to care about others we want you to be givers not takers. And we want you to pay attention to which kids in your class. You know not just who are the popular kids or the cool kids but who are the kind and caring kids and when you notice who helped you. You realize who are the people who have others best interests at heart.
我们希望让他们明白，我们不仅希望你成功，还希望你关心他人。我们希望你做给予者，而不是索取者。我们希望你关注一下班级里的同学，不仅仅是那些受欢迎或很酷的同学，而是那些善良和关心他人的同学。当你注意到是谁帮助了你时，你会意识到谁是真正关心他人利益的人。
And I think we need to have more of those kinds of conversations with people not just with kids probably with adults too because we can vey what we value through what we pay attention to. I love it. Adam Grant ladies and gentlemen Adam why should people go they want to keep up to date with all of your work online. Oh I guess I don't know Adam Grant.net I have a a sub-sac newsletter and a bunch of assessments you can take to gauge your generosity.
我认为我们需要多进行这样的对话，不仅是和孩子，还包括成年人。因为我们通过关注的事情来传达我们重视的东西。我很喜欢这种观念。各位，掌声欢迎亚当·格兰特。亚当，为什么大家应该去关注你在线上的所有工作呢？哦，我想，可能可以去访问AdamGrant.net，我有一个Substack的时事通讯，还有一些测试，你可以通过这些测试来评估自己的慷慨程度。
Your mental flexibility your hidden potential. And I guess also rethinking I host a podcast where I try to explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking. Dude I appreciate you I love the fact that you're really me deep in all of the literature and all of the research. It's in the job description it's literally it's what I know. Yeah but I love I love how much research you read for fun clearly and also how practical you make it.
您的心理灵活性是您隐藏的潜力。我想，这也与重新思考有关。我主持了一个播客，试图探索新的思想和思维方式。兄弟，我很欣赏你，我喜欢你深入研究所有的文献和研究。这是工作的一部分，确实是我的专长。但我喜欢的是，你显然乐于阅读大量研究，并且能将其应用得非常实用。
Trying to man trying to bridge that gap. I really love this. I've been looking forward to bringing you on for a long time and whenever the next book's out I'd love to bring you back on as well. Well I'm honored to. be here I would love to know give me give me your zero to 10 in what I can do better as a guest. Zero pro at this. Get the headphones to work before we start. Yes that was that was the biggest one. What would be better if it was 20% of anything?
试图弥合这一差距。我真的很喜欢这一点。我期待着很长时间把你请到这里来，无论下本书什么时候出版，我都希望能再请你来。很荣幸能在这里。我也很想知道，从零到十分，你觉得我作为嘉宾哪里可以做得更好。完全不擅长这个。提前把耳机调试好。这是最重要的一点。如果能有20%的改进，会有什么不同吗？
Yeah honestly. Honestly dude you know the this it's citing the studies very quickly moving through them not lingering in the boring reference parts explaining this happened and just giving people enough of a reference is really really great. The personal anecdotes also fantastic. Maybe just a tiny maybe just a tiny little bit more in terms of the tactical side but even got a lot of that. You did fucking awesome so I'll have to reflect and I'll email you I'll email you after it but bro I love this I've been wanting to bring you on literally for years and yeah you're fantastic your works brilliant you're even your Instagram your Twitter like high signal places to be so I'm very glad that we managed to finally find a time.
是的，真的。老实说，哥们，你知道这是一种快速引用研究的方式，不在那些无聊的参考部分停留，解释所发生的事情，给人们足够的参考，这真的非常棒。个人轶事也非常精彩。可能在策略方面稍微多一点点内容，不过已经有很多了。你做得非常出色，所以我要好好反思一下，然后给你发邮件。但是，我真的很喜欢这个项目，我想邀请你参与已经有好几年了。你很棒，你的作品很出色，甚至连你的Instagram和Twitter都是值得关注的地方，所以我很高兴我们终于找到了时间。
Well I really appreciate that and it's a lot of pressure to live up to now I think I think I feel like I could have been a little punchier on a couple of the questions particularly the opening question and. I think some of the most interesting parts of the conversation were like you you sharing a perspective or an experience and then us riffing on that and so I think one of my notes for me is I need to.
我非常感谢您的反馈，这的确让我感到有一些压力。我觉得自己在回答问题时，特别是开场的问题上，可以更有冲击力一些。我认为，这次对话中一些最有趣的部分，是您分享观点或经验后我们一起互动的过程。因此，我给自己的一条建议是，我需要更加注重这些互动。
I need to be off kind of my usual topics enough that the information foraging idea comes up that the like okay well what do you what are you worried about failing at comes up because I think those moments of. Let's play with an idea together or let's think about you know a problem to solve or like what would the concrete actions that be in this situation I feel like those those are the moments that crackle and. I think we had a number of great ones I'm like oh now in retrospect we could have had more of.
我需要在平时的话题之外，再超出一些，这样信息觅食的想法就会出现，以及“好吧，那你担心失败的是什么”这种问题也会出现。因为我觉得在那些时刻，我们可以一起玩一个想法，或者一起思考一个需要解决的问题，或者在这种情况下具体的行动会是什么。我觉得这些时刻是非常有活力的。而且我觉得我们已经有过好多这样的时刻，只是在回顾时会想，我们本可以有更多。
I'm looking forward to the next conversation me too and me too let's that's not leave it quite so long look I'll I'll love you and leave you thank you so much for a day did. Do you think that your algorithm on YouTube is a bit of a god is able to know things about you that you don't know about yourself well the YouTube gods have selected this episode specifically for you but spoke so. Go on don't check it out.
我很期待下一次的对话。
我也是，我也一样。
我们不要隔太久再见面了。
好吧，那我就暂时告辞了，衷心感谢你陪伴我度过的一天。
你觉得 YouTube 上的算法有点像神吗？它能了解你自己都不知道的事情。
嗯，YouTube 的“神”特别为你选择了这一集。
去看看吧，别错过哦。