Stop Multitasking and Try Timeboxing
发布时间 2025-03-04 13:00:32 来源
Welcome to the HBR ideacast from Harvard Business Review. I'm Kurt Nicketh. Do you ever reach the end of a workday and say to yourself, the day kind of got away from me? You started out with a list of things to accomplish, but you got distracted, they piled up, and it feels like you never made any headway. You're not alone. It's an all-too-familiar feeling nowadays, feeling unproductive and anxious. It's all too common to look back on the day, the week, the month, or the year, and feel like you never ended up doing what you wanted to do.
欢迎收听来自哈佛商业评论的HBR观点播客。我是 Kurt Nicketh。你是否曾在工作日结束时对自己说，这一天好像就这样过去了？你本来列了一张待办事项清单，但因为各种干扰没能完成，事情越积越多，让你觉得毫无进展。你并不孤单。如今，这种感觉太常见了——既无效率又焦虑。我们经常会回顾一天、一周、一个月甚至一年，感觉自己从来没有完成想做的事。
Today's guest is here to tell you about a productivity practice called timeboxing. It's the idea that you decide ahead of time what you'll spend your time on each day, and for how long, the idea that you stick to the calendar you set for yourself, truly focusing on one task at a time. Our guest today says it's not just a method, it's a mindset, and he's here to help us learn how to take it on. Mark Zau Sanders is the CEO and co-founder of the learning technology company Filter.com, and he's the author of the book Time Boxing, the power of doing one thing at a time.
今天的嘉宾会与我们分享一种名为时间盒的方法来提升生产力。简单来说，就是提前决定每天要花多少时间在什么事情上，并严格按照自己设定的日程表来执行，真正专注于一次只做一件事。我们的嘉宾认为，这不仅仅是一种方法，更是一种心态，他会帮助我们学习如何运用这种方法。马克·左·桑德斯是学习技术公司Filter.com的首席执行官兼联合创始人，也是《时间盒：一次只做一件事的力量》一书的作者。
Mark, thanks for being here. Cut. Nice to be here. Did you struggle with productivity before you discovered timeboxing? Yeah, very much so. I had a problem at the start of my career, so I was a disorganized mess. I was ambitious. I was bright. I was in a job that I could have done very well in. It was strategy consulting, but I didn't have a system for organizing my work and getting stuff done. That led to not doing a great job, getting in trouble, feeling stressed and overwhelmed.
马克，谢谢你来到这里。可以停下来了。很高兴能来这里。在你发现时间分块法之前，你是否在提高生产力方面遇到了困难？是的，非常困难。刚开始工作时，我的问题很严重，非常混乱无序。我很有野心，也很聪明，从事的工作是战略咨询，本来能做得很好。但是我没有一个系统来组织我的工作和完成任务。这导致我工作表现不佳，惹上麻烦，感到压力和不知所措。
So you weren't being lazy. It's not like you weren't working enough hours. I was working many, many hours. That wasn't the issue. It was to do with working on what made most difference to the project that you were involved in. But then I saw an article on Harvard Business Review. It's by a guy called Daniel Markovitz called Why To Do Lists Don't Work. It immediately really struck a chord with me. I thought, okay, this makes logical sense. I want to try this immediately. So I did. I spent the next week doing it, actually the next five years doing it.
所以你并不是在偷懒。也并不是因为你工作的时间不够。我当时工作了很多很多个小时，这并不是问题。问题在于要专注于对你所参与的项目影响最大的工作。后来，我看到了一篇哈佛商业评论上的文章。它由一位名叫丹尼尔·马克维茨的人撰写，题为《为什么待办事项清单不起作用》。这篇文章立刻引起了我强烈的共鸣。我想，嗯，这在逻辑上很有道理。我想立刻尝试一下。所以我就这样做了。在接下来的一周，实际上是接下来的五年里，我都在这样做。
It really made a huge amount of difference, not just to how much I was getting done, but also how I felt if it had improved my confidence. I just knew at any given moment what I should be working on. What was that idea? I mean, if to do lists don't work, you didn't just get rid of them. What was the idea there? It's really to bring the benefits of the calendar and the to do list together. So you put your to do list in your calendar. You set appointments for when you're going to get things done.
这真的产生了巨大的影响，不仅提高了我的工作效率，还提升了我的信心。因为我在任何时刻都知道自己应该在做什么。那个想法是什么呢？我是说，如果待办事项清单不起作用，你不只是简单地把它们丢掉。那到底是什么主意？其实就是把日历和待办事项清单的优点结合起来。你把待办事项清单放入日历中，给每件事情设定完成的时间。
So you don't just have a list that you could do at any point in your life. You have a list of items and a time when they're going to get done and a system to see when they should be getting done. So it's a calendar multiplied by the to do list, which actually brings benefits that are greater than the sum of parts. So there's that old saying, if you want something to get done, ask the busiest person to do it for you. What do you make of that when you hear that?
所以，你不仅仅是有一张可以在生活中任何时候完成的清单。你有一个任务列表，还有一个明确的时间来完成这些任务的系统，就像是在日历上加上待办事项清单，这样带来的好处远超于它们单独作用的总和。这让人想起一句老话，如果你想要某件事情得到完成，就去找那个最忙的人来做。你听到这句话时有什么想法？
Honestly, I would say that almost anyone who is very productive or successful has some kind of system that sounds a lot like timeboxing. They may not be calling it timeboxing. But for example, people who are, you know, important or senior in business, they will often have some kind of an assistant, an executive assistant, a personal assistant. What is that person doing? They are largely managing their calendar. Almost everyone that has that kind of assistance is timeboxing, or actually employing someone to timebox for them and make sure that their use of time is just what it should be.
老实说，我觉得几乎所有高效或成功的人都有某种类似时间分配的系统。他们可能不会称之为时间分配。但比如说，那些在商业中有重要地位或级别较高的人，通常会有某种助理，例如行政助理或个人助理。那个人通常在做什么呢？他们主要是在管理时间表。几乎所有拥有这种助理的人都在进行时间分配，或者实际上是雇佣了一个人来为他们进行时间分配，以确保他们的时间使用得当。
I kind of like that idea. It's a little bit like the same way a budget puts dollars towards things that you think are important, instead of just having like 12 things on your to do list for the day, that putting them into your calendar and giving them different amounts of time. And also, which ones you do first, I can see how that's, you know, a reflection of just priorities and making budgeting your day for what you'd like to get done.
我有点喜欢这个想法。这有点像预算把资金分配给你认为重要的事情，而不是只是列出一天要做的12件事，而是把它们安排进日程表中，并分配不同的时间。同样，优先考虑哪些任务，我能理解这其实就是反映了优先级，以及为你想完成的事情规划一天的时间。
Well, exactly. And I think the budgeting analogy works because with a budget, you have a finite amount of cash. With your day, you have a finite number of hours. How are you going to spend them? Be intentional about it. Have a system for being intentional. And timeboxing isn't the only way of doing it. But I do actually think it's the most logical, easy, accessible, and has multiple benefits. So it's just such a good way of achieving just that.
没错。我觉得预算的比喻很贴切，因为在制定预算时，你有一笔有限的钱。同样地，在一天中，你也有有限的时间。你打算如何使用这些时间呢？要有意识地去安排它。要有一个有意图的系统。而时间管理并不是唯一的方法，但我确实认为这是最合乎逻辑、简单易行且富有多种好处的方法。因此，这是一种非常好的实现方式。
So how does it work in practice? Like take us through a typical day. My typical day starts like I get dressed, I brush my teeth. And then the very first thing I do after that is to timebox for 15 minutes. So I have a recurring calendar appointment in my calendar for 15 minutes. And it's called timebox today. So in that time, I'm doing nothing, but just thinking ahead to my day and my week and how I should be spending that time. And that's not just work. That's also exercise that might be some readings, some meditation time with the kids, time with my wife. And I'm putting that together from meetings that I have that I can see elsewhere in the calendar from my inbox, thoughts that have occurred overnight.
那么，这在实践中是如何运作的呢？例如，带我们看看你的一天。我的典型一天是这样的：我先穿好衣服，然后刷牙。接下来我做的第一件事就是进行15分钟的时间管理。我在日历上有一个固定的15分钟的日程表，叫做“今天的时间管理”。在这段时间里，我不做其他事情，只是思考我当天和本周的计划，考虑应该如何安排时间。这不仅包括工作，还包括锻炼，可能还有一些阅读、冥想、与孩子们和妻子相处的时间。我将这些安排与我在日历上看到的其他会议、邮箱中的信息以及夜间浮现的想法结合起来整理。
Also just knowing that there are certain activities that are good for me, like learning or spending time with friends or exercise. So I'm then deciding what is most important and slotting that into my day, usually around some of the existing meetings and commitments that I have. When I've done that, at the end of the 15 minutes, I can see my whole day ahead. I know then that it will be a good day if I stick to that plan. And so it's a guide all the way through the day. You know, inevitably I'll be pulled in different directions, but I always have a voice telling me, well, there's actually this one thing that you should be doing at this time. And so if I get distracted and I feel like I'm distracted, come back to the calendar, come back to the one thing, immediately feel less stressed, less overwhelmed, and get back to that one thing.
知道有一些活动对我有好处，比如学习、和朋友相处或者锻炼，对我来说很重要。因此，我会决定哪些事情最重要，并把它们安排到我的一天中，通常是在已有的会议和事务之间。当我这样安排好之后，在15分钟结束时，我就能看到新的一天会如何进行。我知道，如果我遵循这个计划，这将会是美好的一天。因此，这个计划就像是我一天的指南。虽然我不可避免地会被各种事情分心，但总有一个声音在提醒我，实际上在这个时间点有一件事情是我应该去做的。所以当我分心时，只要回到日历，专注于那件事情，立刻就会感到压力减轻，不那么手足无措，然后重新专注于那件事情。
And even if that one thing is difficult, it's much easier to face one difficult thing than several things that are irritating you bothering you at once. How do you know how much time to give everything? Well, sometimes it's just really easy because you, the time boxes or your aspiration is to meditate for 30 minutes. So by definition, okay, it's going to be 30 minutes. But for a lot of knowledge work, the thing to do is to base it on your experience of having done something similar before. So you've gone through your inbox before when there are 100 emails, you've gone through your inbox when there are 50 emails, you'll have some sort of sense, you'll have some kind of internal, maybe explicit external calibration going on.
即使那件事很困难，面对一件困难的事情也比同时面对多个烦扰你的事情要容易得多。你怎么知道应该给每件事多少时间呢？有时这很简单，比如你设定的时间段或者目标是冥想30分钟，那么时间自然就是30分钟。但对于很多需要知识工作的事情，最好的方法是根据你以往类似经验来安排时间。比如，你以前处理过含有100封邮件的收件箱，也处理过只有50封邮件的收件箱，你会有某种直觉，或者说某种内在或外部的时间调整。
And this is how you avoid the planning fallacy, which is that we don't anticipate the unexpected, I mean, almost by definition. But if you look back at how long things have taken you in the past, you get that bedded in that's factored into the estimate. You won't get it perfect at the start. But if you do it a little bit, you get a little bit better. And one of the points of time boxing as well is that if you say, okay, I'm going to write a 500 word blog and I've got 45 minutes or an hour to do it. When you get close to the end, or actually maybe when you get halfway through, you adjust your expectations.
这就是如何避免计划谬误，意思是我们往往未能预料到意外情况，几乎可以说是定义中的一部分。但如果你回顾过去做事情所花费的时间，这些经验就会被纳入你的预估中。起初你不可能做到完美，但如果稍微调整一下，你就会慢慢做得更好。时间分配的另一个重点是，比如你决定写一篇500字的博客，给自己45分钟或一个小时。当快要到达截止时间，或者说刚完成一半时，你需要调整自己的期望。
So if you're a little bit ahead, then you can slow down a bit and focus on quality. If you're a little bit behind, you might need to speed up. So you don't get to two minutes until the end or the very end. And all of a sudden you've run out of time and it's a disaster. You pace yourself. I call it pacing and racing. That's partly a gamification thing, but also just a planning within the time box so that you get something that's useful and shippable done by the end of the allotted time. Part of the art of time boxing is adjusting things as you go. So you get, you're not aiming for perfection with any of the tasks that you're doing and none of us achieve perfection with any of the tasks that we do.
所以，如果你稍微领先一点，那么你可以放慢速度，专注于提升质量。如果你稍微落后一些，你可能需要加快速度。这样你就不会到最后两分钟才发现时间不够用了，那会很糟糕。要掌握自己的节奏，我称之为“节奏与加速”。这不仅是一种游戏化的策略，也是一种在有限时间内完成有用并可交付任务的规划技巧。时间管理的艺术之一就是在过程中进行调整，你的目标不是完美，因为我们在完成任务时都无法达到完美。
So it's, we're acknowledging that. We're saying that we're going to fix the time. We're going to get something decent done in this time and then move on to the next thing. And then what do you do if you have a job where little fires emerge? You get that email from your manager or things come up that you just have to deal with as you go. Everyone has plans that change in their job. There's not a single job that wouldn't have that. My job is no exception. This is actually the most common objection to two time boxing and I'd say a few things about this.
所以，我们承认这一点。我们在说，我们要固定好时间，在这一段时间内完成一些像样的事情，然后再继续进行下一个任务。那么，如果你在工作中遇到突发的小问题怎么办呢？比如收到经理的邮件，或者临时出现一些必须处理的事情。每个人在工作中都有计划被打乱的时候，没有哪个工作完全不受干扰，我的工作也不例外。这实际上是人们对时间管理最常见的疑虑之一，我想谈几点意见。
So first of all, be realistic with the goals that you set in the first place. Only set time boxes for when you're less likely to be disturbed or where, if at all possible, you're less likely to have plans change. So just be sensible about it. Then allow some slack in your day so that there's a little bit of just leeway and breathing space in case a small thing changes. But then of course, sometimes the plans just will change and they'll be big. But I would say that this is not very often. If you think about a meeting that you might have and how often do you have to change a meeting?
首先，设定目标时要现实一些。尽量在不容易被打扰的时间段设定计划，或者在可能情况下，选择那些不太可能有计划变动的时间段。要理智面对这些事情。同时，在一天的安排中留出一些空余时间，以便应对小变动，给自己一些喘息的空间。当然，有时候计划确实会发生重大变化，但这种情况并不常见。想一想，你的会议有多少次需要更改？
Well, you do. We do have to change meetings sometimes. Something comes up for one party or both parties or the other party. But how often is that? I would say it's less than 10% for almost everyone. And so if it's less than 10%, well then sure, you just move your time boxes around when you need to, which is less than 10% of the time. I do that every week. There'll be some time boxes that move and it's shifting a few pixels around on a screen. It's really not a big deal. So this objection that plans change, I mean, of course they do, but time boxing is flexible to accommodate that.
当然，我们确实需要有时调整会议安排。有时一方或双方都有突发情况需要处理。但这种情况有多常见呢？我想说，几乎每个人遇到这种情况的概率都不到10%。如果确实不到10%，那么当你需要时，只需调整时间安排即可，这种情况不到10%的概率每周会遇到。我每周都会有一些时间安排需要调整，只是像在屏幕上移动几个像素那么简单，真没什么大不了的。因此，对于计划会发生变化这种反对意见，我的意思是，当然计划会变化，但时间管理是灵活的，可以适应这种变化。
What does your calendar look like? I'm just curious how much of your time you time box? My calendar looks pretty full. It is color coded. There are a few different colors that correspond to different areas of my life that I deem to be important. So, you know, friends and family is one of them. The book is another time boxing in general. And then there's some others to do with work. So the color coded, I would say probably 70% of my time is time box in some way.
你的日程安排是什么样的？我只是想知道你有多少时间是被时间盒管理的？我的日程看起来相当紧凑，而且是用颜色编码来管理的。不同的颜色对应我生活中认为重要的不同方面，比如朋友和家人是一种颜色，书是另一种颜色，时间盒管理一般是另一种，还有一些与工作相关的。通过颜色编码，我可以说，大约70%的时间都是以某种方式被时间盒安排的。
So there are a lot of time boxes, obviously in each day. And a lot of them are 15 minutes. So I actually have three sizes of time box. There's 15 minute time boxes, small, 30 minute time boxes, which are medium and 60 minute time boxes, which are large. I have these three because they stack nicely, they stack up to an hour, obviously very easily. They're simple. And I have a lot of 15 minute time boxes in particular because I feel that for me, I can get a lot done, a surprising amount done in 15 minutes. So if I break tasks down, so sometimes it might be a 45 minute task really, but I break it down into three lots of 15 minutes. And then it gets more done. I feel better about that. There's more time to relax later.
所以，每天都有很多时间段。很多时间段是15分钟的。因此，我实际上有三种时间段：15分钟的小段，30分钟的中段，和60分钟的大段。这三种时间段很容易组合，因为它们可以很简单地凑成一小时。我特别多安排15分钟的小段，因为我觉得自己在这15分钟内可以完成很多事情，甚至超出想象。所以，我会把任务拆分开来，比如一个实际需要45分钟的任务，我会分成三个15分钟的小段来完成。这样，我能完成更多事情，并且感到更好，这样后面就有更多时间可以放松。
Most of my days are time box. And then I would say that maybe three quarters of my evenings and the weekends are time box as well. I really do feel with time boxing, though. If I make a plan, and I see it through and this applies to the regular working day, as well as the weekends and the evening, if I set the plan and I stick to it, I always feel good about it at the end because I set good intentions. You don't think when you're planning that you're going to, or I didn't waste some time here and just be scrolling on social media or watching this, you know, Netflix documentary that I'm not really that interested in, you'll make plans that do matter to you.
我大部分的日子都是用时间盒子管理的。我可以说，可能我大约四分之三的晚上和周末也是这样安排的。我确实感受到，通过时间盒子管理，如果我制定了一个计划并坚持下去，无论是工作日还是周末和晚上，我在结束时总会感到满意，因为我设定了良好的意图。你在规划时不会想，自己是不是会浪费一些时间在社交媒体上闲逛，或者看不太感兴趣的Netflix纪录片，你会制定一些真正重要的计划。
And if you then get done, the things that matter to you, you feel good. I mean, it's just utterly logical to me. That's how iron increasing number of people are living their lives and reacting against the overwhelm and everything else beating at our doors. I guess one thing that seems super important here is single tasking. You are essentially blocking off time. And a lot of people do that, right? But you were really just trying to do your serial single tasker and not a multitasker in that sense.
如果你完成了对你重要的事情，你会感觉很好。我觉得这是非常合乎逻辑的。越来越多的人正在这样生活，他们在对抗压倒我们的压力和各种外界干扰中反应。这里有一件事情似乎特别重要，那就是专注于单一任务。你实际上是要划定时间段。很多人都这样做，对吧？但你实际上是想真正成为一个专注于单一任务的人，而不是同时处理多个任务。
Yeah. I mean, there is some nuance here, but essentially what you're saying is right, that we get a lot more done if we're focused on one thing. I mean, that's why the, actually, that my newsletter is called One Thing at a Time. There is this firm belief that I and many others have that you get a lot more done. You feel less stressed if you're focusing on just one thing. Now, the nuance is just that there are some combinations of tasks that do actually work reasonably well together. I mean, for example, you can go for a jog and listen to a podcast. Is that multitasking? Yes.
是的，我的意思是，这里确实有一些微妙之处，但基本上你说得对，我们专注于一件事情时效率会更高。这也是为什么我的通讯被称为“一次一件事”。我和许多人坚信，如果只专注于一件事情，会完成得更多，而且压力更小。当然，微妙之处在于，有些任务组合实际上可以很好地同时进行。比如，你可以边跑步边听播客。这算是多任务处理吗？算是的。
I say single tasking in general for new cognitively difficult tasks. I'd say one other thing about multitasking. Multitasking for most people really just means doing one thing for a short amount of time, being distracted then about a minute later, and then doing something else, and then doing something else a couple of minutes after that. Really, it's also single tasking, really, but just doing it minute by minute, not making any progress on any of these things, feeling frustrated, not knowing what you were meant to be doing at the beginning. That is a very unpleasant experience.
我认为对于新的认知难度较高的任务来说，应该专注于单任务处理。我还想说说关于多任务处理的另一件事。对大多数人来说，多任务处理其实只是在短时间内做一件事，然后被分心，大约一分钟后再去做另一件事，然后几分钟后又去做其它事情。实际上，这也是单任务处理，只不过是每分钟做不同的任务，没有对任何任务取得实质进展，感到沮丧，不知道原本要做什么。这是一种非常令人不快的体验。
I get to that as well, because you're working on something and it's fine. You're totally focused on that. Then some thought occurs or there's some notification that pops up somewhere and you start to be distracted. As that happens, it starts to feel a little bit stressful for me. This is actually the real trick. This is the other objection to timeboxing, but what if you get distracted? Well, we all get distracted. It definitely happens to me multiple times a day. When it does, I notice this slightly stressed feeling that I'm having.
我也会遇到这种情况，因为你在专注工作，一开始一切都很顺利。然后，突然出现一个想法，或者有通知弹出，你开始分心。每当这种事发生时，我就会感到有些紧张。这其实是个真正的挑战，也是对此做时间管理方法的另一种质疑：如果你分心了怎么办？其实我们都会分心，我每天都会遇到好几次。当这种情况出现时，我会注意到自己变得有点紧张。
I actually say out loud to myself one thing at a time. As soon as I remember even to utter that mantra, I feel more relaxed. I know what I'm supposed to be doing, what I need to do, which is to come back to my calendar. What's the one thing I'm supposed to be working on? Then get back to that. Feel happier. Be more productive. Happy days. Yeah, that's definitely a familiar thing. I know a lot of people feel like that sometimes that you can ask them, how was your day or how did things go? I'm not even sure exactly what I did.
我会大声对自己说“一次只做一件事”。每当我想起这句话时，我就感觉更放松。我知道我现在该做什么，该回到我的日历上去。想想我应该专注于哪一件事，然后继续做下去。我会感到更开心，也更有成效。这样的一天会更快乐。是的，这种感觉确实很常见。我知道很多人有时会觉得，如果你问他们，今天过得怎么样，或者事情进行得如何，他们甚至不确定自己做了些什么。
Well, you just hit on one of the most underrated benefits of timeboxing. It's just to remember what you did on planet Earth that day, or even more difficult. What did you do last Tuesday afternoon? Almost no one would have any idea what they did, but I have a very good idea because it's in my calendar. Sometimes when you're reviewing the week, it can be handy as a reflective exercise. It can be poignant. There's all sorts of benefits to timeboxing. One of the ones that is least celebrated is the one that you just hit on, which is, yeah, it's a log. It's a record of what you did. If you've got a record of it, that can then unlock your memory.
好吧，你刚刚提到了时间盒法的一个最容易被忽视的好处。它能帮助你记住那天在地球上做了些什么，甚至更难的是——上星期二下午你做了什么？几乎没有人能想起来自己做了什么，而我却能很清楚地知道，因为它记录在我的日历上。有时候在回顾一周的时候，这会是一个有用的反思练习。它可能会非常感人。时间盒法有各种各样的好处，其中一个最不被重视的就是你刚才提到的，它实际上是一个日志，是你所做事情的记录。有了这样的记录，你就可以唤起你的记忆。
How does this work, though, in an organization? I'm just curious. I have a personal calendar. I have a work calendar. If I timebox on my work calendar, that's going to look like I'm never available. I also don't want to manage two calendars. I'm just curious, how do you recommend just making the timebox on your calendar that you use line up with the rhythms of an organization? Where's the couple of points, though, I think, cut? One of them is, well, if you timebox your work calendar, it's going to look like you're busy all the time. Well, it will, by the time you get to the end of your week.
在一个组织中，这种方法是如何运作的呢？我很好奇。我有一个个人日历和一个工作日历。如果我在工作日历上进行时间盒管理，看起来就像我永远没空。我也不想管理两个日历。我只是好奇，你怎么建议把你日历上的时间盒和组织的节奏协调一致呢？我认为有几个关键点需要考虑。其中之一是，如果你在工作日历上进行时间盒管理，就会显得你一直很忙。到了周末的时候，确实会这样看起来。
But if you think about as you go through this, let's say it's a Tuesday morning, you wake up early like I do and you timebox the day. At about, I don't know, 7.30, 8 o'clock, or whenever you're finished with that, you will, at that point, have a full-looking Tuesday. But there's two things with that. First of all, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday will not be so full, so anyone wants to spend time with you on that later that week or the week after it's completely fine. There's also then a question of just your ways of working with people.
如果你仔细考虑一下，在这个过程中，比如说是一个星期二的早晨，你像我一样早起，并且为一天的时间进行规划。在大约7:30或者8:00，或者不管你什么时候完成这个规划时，你就会发现自己有一个满满的星期二。但是需要注意两点：首先，星期三、星期四和星期五可能就不会那么满，所以如果有人想在这一周稍晚的时候或者下一周和你一起共度时间，那是完全可以安排的。另外还有一个问题就是你与别人合作的方式。
So you may have fully timeboxed Tuesday, but if people know that you're an avid timeboxer, they will know that with certain kinds of items that you've put in there, they may be movable or half-moveable or moveable in the case of emergencies. So this is about trust and transparency and collaboration and just being clear on how you work with your colleagues. This is also the office hours idea too. You can reserve time on your calendar and communicate that to the people on your team. They know they can always get you then.
所以你可能已经把周二的时间完全安排好了，但如果大家知道你是一个时间管理非常严格的人，他们会知道某些类型的事项是可以调整的，例如紧急情况下可以移动或部分移动的。这关乎信任、透明和合作，重要的是要清楚地告诉同事自己的工作方式。这也是办公室时间的一个想法，你可以在日历上保留时间，并通知团队成员，他们知道在那个时间总能找到你。
Exactly. I mean, you brought up something there that sort of depends on how it works in your organization or what kind of permissions you have set on your calendar, but people may only be able to see that you've blocked off time. Yeah, that is private. There's also the ability then to make it more visible to show exactly what you are doing when, which is a level of comfort that a lot of people don't have or need to work up to. What kind of benefits do you see from timeboxing, but then also making how you budget and box your time more visible to your team or to other people in your organization?
当然。我是说，你提到的这个问题，实际上取决于你所在组织的运作方式或者你在日历上设置的权限。有时候，别人只能看到你有空闲时间，但不知道具体内容，这是隐私保护的一种。同时，你也可以选择将时间安排更明确地显示出来，这样别人可以看到你在什么时候做什么工作，但这种透明度可能让一些人感到不适，或者需要时间去适应。你认为时间分配这种方式有什么好处？如果你把自己的时间预算和安排展示给团队或其他组织成员，又会带来哪些好处呢？
I think if you've been asked to do something and so let's say I'm cut, I want you to write this report and you say, yeah, Mark, very good. We'll do. That often happens in business, that that is the response though. I mean, it's literally those words will do. So you're saying then to me that you will at some point in the future of time get this thing done. That doesn't really help me all that much. It's a little bit reassuring, but I'm not totally confident you're going to get it done.
我认为，当你被要求去做某件事情时，比如我说“我希望你写这份报告”，你回答说，“好的，马克，会做的。”在商业中，这种对话经常出现。我指的是字面上的回答“会做的。”这就意味着你在未来的某个时间会完成这件事。这对我来说帮助不大。虽然有点让人放心，但我并不能完全相信你会完成它。
And we're also not confident you can get it done by the time I need you to do it. Right. And so in your mind, you're thinking, I need to follow up now. I got to check on this person and I might need to follow up. Yeah. So it's like, it's an extra stress for me. So just compare and contrast that to, okay, thanks, Mark, I will get that done and it's timeboxed for 3pm on Thursday out of that sound. I can then say, well, first of all, thank you for being so helpful.
我们也不太确定你能在我需要的时间完成。所以在你心里，你会想，我需要立即跟进。我得去看看这个人，我可能需要再跟进。这对我来说是一种额外的压力。相比之下，如果你说：“好的，马克，我会做好，周四下午3点前完成。”我就可以说，首先，非常感谢你的帮助。
And secondly, I can say, okay, well, no, I'm actually going to need it the day before that or it's completely fine. Regardless, I'm going to feel like you're a great colleague to work with and feel a lot more confident that you're going to get the thing done by the time I need you to get it done. So I think part of timeboxing is really about collaboration and communication and a more harmonious work relationship between colleagues. Because when people get asked someone to do something and it doesn't get done or doesn't get done to time, it's often just completely unnecessary that it goes that way.
其次，我可以说，好吧，实际上我需要提前一天得到它，或者说这样完全没问题。不管怎样，我会觉得你是一个很棒的同事，让我更有信心你能在我需要的时间内完成任务。因此，我认为时间管理的一部分确实关系到合作与沟通，以及同事之间更加和谐的工作关系。因为当人们请求别人做事，而任务没有完成或没有及时完成时，往往是不必要的结果。
It's funny you say that about communication because if you ask the question, like, when can I expect that? It sounds a little bit aggressive. Yeah, I mean, it's a totally fair question, but it's just kind of like, you feel like you're checking up on somebody, but you want to know because you need to plan. Yeah, I think with that, actually, as well, that ideally, if I say to you, yeah, I'd like that report by Thursday 3PM, please, then you can timebox accordingly. It's actually even more efficient because then you'll obviously put the timebox at some point before Thursday 3PM.
你提到交流这件事很有趣，因为如果你问“我什么时候可以期待呢？”这样的问题，听起来有点强势。是的，我的意思是，这是一个完全合理的问题，但总感觉像是在监督某人，但你又需要知道，因为你需要计划。理想情况下，如果我对你说：“我希望星期四下午3点之前能拿到那个报告”，那么你就可以合理安排时间。这其实更有效率，因为你显然会在星期四下午3点之前的某个时间段完成任务。
Right, and you don't forget a deadline, which is, you know. No, exactly. I mean, it's tough to be like, hey, can I have more time on this? Deadlines have become this kind of dirty world in business, but it's associated with micromanagement and difficult bosses. It really shouldn't be. I mean, sometimes it's just a deadline because something needs to go at a certain point. That's just a piece of information that we should be able to treat a little bit more robotically. There's nothing personal about that. We just need to get that information across to others so that they can treat it accordingly.
当然，你记住截止日期，这很重要。对，没错。我是说，有时候很难开口要求更多时间。在商业中，截止日期已经变成了一个不太受欢迎的话题，经常和微观管理以及难相处的老板联系在一起。但其实不应该是这样的。有时候，截止日期只是因为某件事情需要在某个时间点完成。这其实只是一个信息，我们应该更加理性地对待它。这没有任何私人情感，我们只是需要把这个信息传达给别人，以便他们能够妥善处理。
And part of that treatment in my view should be can be and should be timeboxing. You've been timeboxing for years. How is it a mindset for you? Just tell us a little bit more about what it has done for you. In my case, it has led to becoming an author. So it's changed my career. For me, though, and for many people that I speak to, you can think of it simply as a technique to manage your time better. And it's definitely that. But it's actually a lot more. It's about intention, agency, purpose. It feels a lot bigger. You're basically saying with timeboxing that, look, life is unpredictable and often hard.
在我看来，作为治疗的一部分，可以也应该包括时间框定。你已经这样做了多年。对你来说，这种方法是一种怎样的思维模式呢？请稍微谈谈它给你带来了什么样的改变。在我自己的情况下，它使我成为了一名作家，改变了我的职业生涯。对于我自己和许多我交流过的人而言，时间框定可以被简单地看作是一种更好管理时间的技巧。它确实是这样，但更重要的是，它涉及意图、主动性以及目标。这让人感觉意义深远。通过时间框定，你基本上是在说，看，生活往往是不可预测且艰难的。
We could all do with some guidance. You can't or don't want to rely on other people all the time. But there is one source of certainty that each of us has in us. And that is us. Not us in all moments when we're hurried and hurried by everything that's going on in the world and the hustle and bustle of the day. But it's us in that earlier quiet moment when we had the space and time to think and the wherewithal to make some good important decisions about what we should do. And when that day, that's how sad our very best is, is kind of us accessing yourself in a higher self in a quieter, better moment and being able to tap into that guide all the way through the day.
我们都需要一些指导。我们不可能或者不想一直依赖他人。但我们每个人心中都有一个确定的力量，那就是我们自己。不是在我们被世界上的各种事物和日常喧嚣弄得匆忙的时刻，而是在那个早些安静的时刻。那个时候，我们有空间和时间去思考，并且有能力做出一些重要的决定。当我们在一个宁静、美好的时刻，能接触到自己内在更高层次的自我时，我们就能够通过一天不断地依靠这个内心的指导。
So that's how it is with me. I think the greatest benefit that I get from timeboxing is every single day, there'll be a point where I feel stressed, a bunch of thoughts occur to me about what I might be doing. And I can come back to the timebox. But by coming back to the timebox, I'm coming back to me in that earlier moment, giving my future self the reassurance that there is just one thing that you need to be thinking about, be bothered about at that moment. Just come back to that.
所以这就是我的情况。我认为时间管理法给我带来的最大好处是，每天都会有一个时刻让我感到有压力，心中冒出一连串关于我应该做什么的想法。这时候，我可以回到时间管理法。而通过这种方式，我其实是在回到过去的自己，给未来的自己一种安慰——在那个时刻，你只需要关注一件事情。只要回到这一点就好。
It's interesting you use the word agency because I do feel that we actually control a lot more than we think we do, right? We do have a lot of control over our time and we have a lot of autonomy, even in jobs that feel like you don't have any. But it is, yeah, it's very easy to feel like you're losing control or things are controlling you. And you're saying that timeboxing helps you kind of take ownership of that.
你用“自主权”这个词很有趣，因为我确实觉得我们实际上控制的东西比我们想象中要多，对吧？我们对自己的时间有很多控制权，即使在那些感觉没有任何自主权的工作中，我们也有很大的自主性。但是，是的，我们很容易感觉失去控制或被事情所控制。而你说时间管理（即时间盒）能帮助你掌控这些。
Absolutely. There's a constellation of maker trends, the internet, smartphones, knowledge work, work from home, post-COVID in particular, that does exactly what you just described. It means that we've got a lot of choice at any given moment over what we do. But we also have a lot of systems and powers that are influencing what we spend time on. So timeboxing is an antidote to that. You're saying, okay, look, there is all of this stuff that you could be doing. But there is just one thing that you should be doing. And it's whatever you said that you should be doing at the start of your day.
当然，现在有很多趋势，比如手工制造、互联网、智能手机、知识工作、居家办公，尤其是后疫情时期，这些趋势正是你所描述的情况。这意味着我们在任何时刻都有很多选择可以去做不同的事情。但是，我们也受到许多系统和力量的影响，影响着我们如何花费时间。于是，时间盒作为一种对策出现了。意思是，你对自己说，好吧，有这么多事情可以做，但你应该专注于一件事，而这件事就是你在一天开始时决定要做的事情。
So it's very, very much about agency. That's actually the way, if I had to sum up the whole book in one word, it would be that, it would be agency. Mark, this has been really helpful. Thanks so much for sharing this technique and I'm definitely going to try it myself. Thank you, sir. Happy timeboxing.
所以这本书非常非常强调个人的主动性。如果要用一个词来概括整本书，那就是“主动性”。马克，你的分享非常有帮助。谢谢你分享这个方法，我一定会自己尝试。谢谢你，祝你享受时间盒管理法。
That's Mark Zao-Sander, the author of the book, timeboxing, the power of doing one thing in a time. Want to timebox some more idea cast listening? We have over 1,000 episodes and more podcasts to help you manage your team, your organization, and your career. Find them at hbr.org slash podcasts or search hbr in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
那是马克·赵-桑德（Mark Zao-Sander），他是《时间盒法：一次专注做一件事的力量》一书的作者。想要继续通过时间盒法听更多的播客吗？我们有超过1000集的节目，还有更多播客可以帮助你管理团队、组织和职业生涯。你可以在hbr.org/podcasts找到它们，或者通过Apple Podcasts、Spotify或其他你常用的平台搜索“HBR”。
Thanks to our team, senior producer Mary Dew, associate producer Hannah Bates, audio product manager Ian Fox, and senior production specialist Rob Eckhart. Thank you for listening to the HBR idea cast. We'll be back on Tuesday with our next episode. I'm Kurt Nickish.
感谢我们的团队：高级制片人Mary Dew、副制片人Hannah Bates、音频产品经理Ian Fox，以及高级制作专家Rob Eckhart。感谢您收听HBR创意播客。我们将在周二带来下一期节目。我是Kurt Nickish。