Kevin Bethune: Nonlinear—Navigating Design with Curiosity and Conviction
发布时间 2025-02-19 09:31:33 来源
If we value the folks around the table as full human beings, if we appreciate their full humanity beyond the title, there's so much richness that we could leverage in our problem solving. The respect for culture that could be intertwined in those constituents that we're claiming to design for, that can make its way into the problem solving, and we're better for it. One core strength that good designers cultivate is the ability to navigate ambiguity. Our guest today, Kevin Bethune, returns to the show to discuss his new book Nonlinear, which emphasizes that to achieve real innovation, teams must be willing to venture into the proverbial forest of ambiguity.
如果我们把桌子旁的人视作完整的人，欣赏他们的完整人性，而不仅仅是他们的头衔，那么在解决问题时我们可以利用的资源会更加丰富。尊重我们声称为其设计的那些群体的文化，可以融入到问题解决中，这将使我们受益良多。优秀设计师培养的一个核心能力是驾驭模糊性。今天的嘉宾Kevin Bethune回到了我们的节目中，讨论他的新书《非线性》。这本书强调，要实现真正的创新，团队必须愿意勇敢进入那象征性的不确定森林中。
We talked to Kevin about how we can bring nonlinear thinking into our very linear workflows, to shake them up and embrace ambiguity and exploration. Kevin also shared why he thinks multidisciplinary thinking is essential to innovation and creativity. This is Design Better, where we explore creativity at the intersection of design and technology. I'm Eli Willard. And I'm Aaron Walter. You can get ad-free episodes, discounts on our workshops, access to documentaries like design disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with big names and design and tech by becoming a design better premium subscriber.
我们和Kevin讨论了如何将非线性思维融入我们高度线性的工作流程，以此打破常规并拥抱不确定性和探索精神。Kevin还分享了他认为多学科思维对于创新和创造力至关重要的原因。这是《Design Better》，我们在这里探索设计与科技交汇处的创造力。我是Eli Willard，我是Aaron Walter。如果你成为《Design Better》的高级订阅者，可以收听无广告节目、享受我们工作坊的折扣、观看《Design Disruptors》等纪录片以及查阅我们不断扩充的图书馆，还能参加我们每月与设计和科技业内名人的“问我任何事”活动。
It's also the best way to support the show. Visit designbetterpodcast.com slash subscribe to learn more. And if you're hiring or looking for your next design role, visit designbetter.directory, our new site that helps talented designers and great companies find each other. Hi there, Aaron Walter here. If you're hearing this, you're not currently on our premium subscriber feed. Design Better premium subscribers enjoy weekly episodes, four episodes per month in total rather than two. All ad-free and invitations to our monthly AMAs with the smartest folks in design and tech.
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And now back to the show. Kevin Bethune, welcome back to the design better podcast. Oh, thank you, Aaron and Eli. Thank you for having me back. We are very excited to have you. And in the interim since recording your first episode, I was lucky enough to have you up in person at campus to our class and then we will come out in San Francisco, which is a lot of fun. But I was not aware at the time that you had this project brewing the background, which is another book.
现在回到节目中。Kevin Bethune，欢迎回到“设计更好”播客。哦，谢谢你，Aaron和Eli。感谢你们再次邀请我。我们非常高兴能邀请到你。在录制你的第一期节目之后，我很幸运能在我们的课程中与你在校园见面，然后我们一起去旧金山，那真是很有趣。不过，当时我并不知道你在幕后还有一个项目进行，那就是你的另一本书。
And Aaron and I are curious given that there is some not in substantial pain involved in writing a book because Aaron and I both know what brought about this idea of doing it again. Yeah, the thought of writing another book, I feel a little dead inside. But I think definitely having the privilege and the support of the MIT press after re-imagining design came out and having a litany of conversations with some tremendous audiences and at schools, the companies, there was something more to say and not to say that the idea of a second book was going to be a sequel to re-imagining design.
阿伦和我对写书这件事充满好奇，因为我们都清楚写书涉及到一定程度的不小痛苦。我们都明白是什么促使我们想要再次写书。是的，想到再写一本书，我内心感到有些麻木。但是，我确实认为在重新设计理念推出后，能够得到MIT出版社的支持是一种特权，并且有机会与一些非常优秀的观众、学校和公司进行深入交流，这让我觉得还有更多内容值得分享。这并不是说第二本书会是重新设计理念的续集。
But there was another opportunity to create a narrative around a set of thoughts and convictions that I thought were important for this conversation around where design fits into multidisciplinary opportunities. And the MIT press, the soft fit that the second book, nonlinear, navigating design with curiosity and conviction, could also fit within the simplicity series that the MIT press has supported under the editorial direction of Dr. John Mida.
但是，还有一个机会可以围绕一组思想和信念创造一个叙事，我认为这对于讨论设计在多学科机会中的定位很重要。麻省理工学院出版社的第二本书《非线性：以好奇心和信念导航设计》也可以加入到他们支持的简约系列中，这个系列是在约翰·米达博士的编辑指导下推出的。
So this will be, I believe, the 11th book in the series. It's not a sequel, but it's just another set of arguments that I felt were still necessary to convey after the first book. So folks who missed your previous episode on Design Better, which we will link to in show notes, would not know that you've had a very multidisciplinary background, that you worked in a nuclear engineering capacity, you worked with Nike designing Jordans, and you've just had a very widely varied career, which is unique.
这将是该系列的第11本书，我相信。这并不是一个续集，而是另一组我认为在第一本书之后仍有必要传达的论点。因此，那些错过了你之前在“更好的设计”中节目的人，可能不知道你有一个非常多学科的背景，你曾在核工程领域工作，参与设计过耐克的乔丹系列，并且拥有非常多样化且独特的职业生涯。在节目说明中，我们将附上相关链接。
How much of that informed or was the impetus of this book nonlinear? Very much the foundation. As you said, I definitely had some very unique zigs and zags, as I call it, in the journey. And I never would have predicted it playing out that way, honestly. But hindsight being 2020, I can say that curiosity was a defining thread. And I had the privilege of finding myself in some situations that were arguably early in comparison to maybe what my peers were going through, whether it was a previous life as an engineer, a business person, and then understanding how design could fit into my puzzle moving forward.
这本书有多少灵感来源于非线性的经历？可以说，这些经历奠定了它的基础。正如你所说，我在旅途中确实经历了一些非常独特的曲折。老实说，我从未预料到事情会以这样的方式发展。但回头看，我可以说好奇心是贯穿始终的主线。很幸运的是，我在一些情况下获得了独特的经历，相比我的同龄人，这可能都是不同寻常的经历。无论是作为工程师、商人，还是后来理解设计如何融入我的未来，这些经历都是早期的。
I did find myself in situations where I had to connect a dance between disciplines. Sometimes what I had permission to do so, and sometimes what I did, and ruffled a few feathers in the process with just connecting the dots and running experiments to see what could happen from that. And so I think those experiences definitely helped me today in terms of the times that we're in where multidisciplinary convergence, I believe, is the requirement, not the exception, like it used to be.
我确实遇到过需要在不同学科之间建立联系的情况。有时候我得到了授权去这样做，有时候我则自己动手，在这个过程中可能会让一些人感到不满，因为我只是连接了一些点，进行实验来看看会发生什么。我认为那些经历确实对我今天有所帮助，特别是在当今这个多学科融合被认为是常态而不是例外的时代。
So talk a little bit more about that, because I think from Aaron and my perspective, we're certainly seeing that multidisciplinary thinking play out in the fact that roles like designer and developer are starting to blur together with these access to these genitive AI tools, where me as a designer, I can code little prototypes, or a developer can very quickly create some kind of initial UI design. So that's certainly part of it. But maybe talk us through your thinking on why these things are converging and why it's becoming very important to become multidisciplinary.
请多谈谈这个话题，因为从我和Aaron的角度来看，我们确实看到这种多学科思维正在显现，特别是因为设计师和开发者的角色开始因生成式人工智能工具的应用而逐渐模糊。比如，作为设计师，我可以编写一些简单的原型代码，而开发人员也可以很快创建一些初步的UI设计。所以这无疑是其中的一部分。不过，也请谈谈您对这些角色融合的看法，以及为什么成为多学科的人才越来越重要。
I think the benefit of digital is that it's definitely brought us together, it's shrunk the world down, it's ever-shrinking. The connectivity is just at a whole other level where a lot of the complexities of today, thanks to digital, thanks to the rise of generative AI, a lot of the complexities, I believe, require an elevated sense of importance to creative problem-solving and critical thinking, because you can argue that information is readily accessible, data is readily accessible in many ways, but to be able to pull together people around the table to make sense of what's happening, to parse what is credible information from potentially misinformation, disinformation, and to be able to surface patterns of importance of what we can pursue as an opportunity to create something new in a value to however it is we claim they'd be serving.
我认为数字化的好处在于，它确实让我们更紧密地联系在一起，让世界变得更小，而且还在继续缩小。数字化技术尤其是生成性AI的兴起，使得我们的连接达到了一个全新的水平。当今的许多复杂问题，我相信，需要一种更高层次的创造性问题解决能力和批判性思维。因为可以说，信息和数据现在都非常容易获取，但是，能够把人们聚集在一起，理解正在发生的事情，从潜在的虚假信息中辨别出可信的信息，并找到重要的模式，以便我们可以借此机会创造新的有价值的事物，这才是关键。
That's why I believe the complexity of our times and especially the way the future is unfolding is going to require us to lean in together. And almost, I hate to say, dis-immediate some of the preconceived titles that we've given ourselves, the preconceived silos of discipline that has to blur too. Can you ground that a little bit for us? Maybe give us some examples of some of the problems that are unfolding right now in the times that we live where multidisciplinary thinking is the only solution.
这就是为什么我相信，在我们这个复杂的时代，尤其是未来的发展方式，将需要我们共同努力。我几乎不愿这么说，但我们可能需要打破一些我们自我设定的头衔，以及那些需要融合的学科界限。你能为我们更具体地说明一下吗？或许可以举例说明在我们这个时代正在出现的一些问题，这些问题只有通过跨学科思维才能解决。
I definitely look at the application of generative AI. I am no expert. I think we're all in our early infancy experimenting. It was nice to see Eli up in Palo Alto show a couple of prototypes he was working on. So I think it's necessary that we lean in and experiment on some of these tool sets to see where is their value. Can these algorithms, for example, LLMs take away some of the routine and it helps us automate some of those tasks. But again, we need to interrogate how can we actually show up for the constituents that we claim to be designing for and designing with and new and novel ways that are beyond just the present patterns of marketers marketing and consumers consuming things.
我绝对关注生成式人工智能的应用。我不是专家。我觉得我们都处于尝试的初期阶段。看到Eli在Palo Alto展示了他正在开发的一些原型，真的让人感到高兴。因此，我认为我们有必要投入并尝试这些工具套件，以了解其价值所在。比如说，这些算法、大语言模型(LLM)能否减少我们一些日常任务，并帮助我们自动化这些任务。但是，我们仍然需要探讨如何真正为我们声称在设计和合作的对象服务，以全新的方式，而不仅仅是继续沿用市场营销者推销、消费者购买的模式。
If anything, generative AI and the like algorithms like it can speed things up to a level that's going to further exacerbate a lot of the problems that we're encountering today. And then I'm also drawn to some of the thought leadership of the likes of Monica Bilzkite and others like her where they're strong reminders that there are people living in dystopia right now that are vulnerable to some of these ill effects. And all the more reason to bring sort of the human quotient, the technical quotient, and the business quotient together around the table more than ever.
如果有什么不同的话，生成式人工智能及类似算法可能会加速我们今天遇到的许多问题。而且，我也被像Monica Bilzkite等人的思想领导所吸引，他们强烈提醒我们，现在就有一些人生活在反乌托邦中，他们很容易受到这些负面影响。这更加突显了将人文因素、技术因素和商业因素比以往任何时候都更紧密结合在一起的重要性。
I don't know about you, but I've definitely worked with multidisciplinary people like Eli. And they tend to be the people who come up with the best ideas are the most capable, are the most resilient when they're thrown really challenging problems. Talking about, you know, working on software with people who have a background in not just software development, but biology, or they've got a background in industrial design. Like I have a background in painting for goodness sakes, like that's very different.
我不知道你怎么想，但我确实与像Eli这样的多学科背景的人合作过。这样的人往往能提出最好的想法，更有能力，并且在面对非常有挑战性的问题时最有韧性。我说的是那些不仅仅有软件开发背景，还拥有生物学或工业设计背景的团队合作。就像我自己的背景是绘画，这完全是不同的领域。
And I find like personally, either working with someone who's multidisciplinary or the way that I've approached my own growth journey, the more I learn about adjacent things, the better I am prepared to answer problems. I wonder if you can share any examples of the things that I've learned from the past and I wonder if you can share any examples of people you've worked with who embody that multidisciplinary thinking and how that affected the workflow.
我个人发现，无论是与多学科的人合作，还是我自己在成长过程中采用的方式，我了解到的相关领域知识越多，我就越能更好地解决问题。我想知道您是否可以分享一些我过去学到的知识的例子，并且我也想知道您是否可以分享一些您合作过的人的例子，这些人展现了多学科思维，这种思维是如何影响工作流程的。
It's funny and nonlinear. I shine a light on a client partner that I've been working with for the past well over six years. It's a biotech venture based in Irvine, California called Envoy. I and V.O.Y. is how you spell it, Envoy. Led by an incredible leader in Labna Ahmad, she's a Ph.D. in respiratory chemistry, so she was a scientist. She was a scientist that had to learn to become a CEO, had to learn how to take her research, and package it in a way that could be piloted, and that she could find benefactors that would want to potentially help in the fundraising to raise funds to actually manage this as a company. So she became the science business hybrid, science slash Silicon Valley's founder sort of persona.
这段话具有趣味性和非线性。我想谈谈一个合作超过六年的客户伙伴。这个位于加州尔湾的生物科技公司名为Envoy。名字的拼法是E-N-V-O-Y。公司由一位出色的领导者Labna Ahmad博士带领，她拥有呼吸化学的博士学位，因此她原本是一名科学家。后来她不得不学习如何成为一名CEO，如何将她的研究进行商业化包装，以便进行试点，并找到支持者来帮助筹集资金，从而实际运营这家公司。因此，她成为了科学与商业的混合体，像硅谷创业者那样的人物。
And we met at a certain dip at his time when she wanted to bring out her intellectual property out of stealth and begin to align this as a product that could be sold into companies. And so when we met, she had an open mind because of her background having to wrestle with different muscles herself. Design was now this new entity put in front of her upon her meeting. And she was open to just sort of experiment with me. And we tried some things together. We worked on the whiteboard together. How would this unique intellectual property that she had around breadth biomarkers and understanding what's happening in the human body?
我们在某个时刻见面，那时她想把自己的知识产权从隐秘阶段推出，并开始将其调整为可以向公司出售的产品。当我们见面时，由于她过去需要自己努力应对各种挑战，她心态开放。设计对于她来说是一次新尝试，而我们的见面带来了这样的机遇。她愿意与我一起尝试新事物。我们一起在白板上工作，探讨如何将她独特的关于呼吸生物标志物及了解人体状况的知识产权转化为产品。
How could we take the existing traction that they've achieved and begin to humanize how we show up for different constituents that this platform could serve? How could we iterate and come up with the most coherent, relevant solutioning that matched the value criteria of all those different stakeholders in her sort of path in her trajectory for this business? And we challenged our own sort of assumptions in that journey. We went on listening tours and talked to some of the existing members that were part of the early pilots and got a lot of latent substance that we can then shape to make our solution even more relevant, more impactful and figure out the best ways to show up.
我们如何利用他们已取得的现有进展，开始让我们以更人性化的方式为这个平台可能服务的不同用户群体展示自己呢？我们如何迭代并提出最能与所有不同利益相关者的价值标准相匹配的连贯而相关的解决方案，以适应她的业务发展路径？在这个过程中，我们对自己的假设提出了挑战。我们进行了倾听之旅，与参与早期试点计划的现有成员进行了对话，从中获取了大量潜在的信息，以帮助我们使解决方案更加相关和有影响力，并找到最佳的展示方式。
And so it's been a beautiful relationship. It wasn't something that started with a design sprint and ended. We've been working together and it created problem-solving capacity over the last six plus years. Let's talk a bit about the title of your new book, Nonlinear. I may just walk us through what Nonlinear thinking is, how might it be different from thinking in business terms or in engineering terms or design terms? You know, even with the rise of things like design thinking, human centered methods and approaches, the business world at large would introduce to a new methodology.
这是一段美好的合作关系。这并不是从一次设计冲刺开始然后结束的。我们已经合作了六年多的时间，在这个过程中培养了解决问题的能力。现在，让我们聊聊你新书的标题《非线性》。您能为我们讲解一下什么是非线性思维吗？它与商业思维、工程思维或设计思维有什么不同？即便随着设计思维、人本方法等崛起，整个商业世界也被引入了一种新的方法论。
There tends to be a tendency to take the risk out of any approach. Like once it kind of works over here, I want to replicate that and ask all the teams to sort of follow that same approach. And so the de-risking leads us to sort of formulaic practices that you can't necessarily tweak or break later in time when it is appropriate to do so. So, Nonlinear, in a way, especially with design being the youngest to the party in terms of the creative problem-solving at the table, I wanted to shine a light on design's nuances.
在任何方法中，人们往往倾向于将风险降到最低。就像一旦某个方法在这里有效，我就想复制它，并要求所有团队都采用相同的方法。因此，这种去风险化导致了我们采用一些公式化的做法，而这些做法在以后有必要调整或打破的时候，往往无法做到。因此，设计在创造性问题解决中是最年轻的参与者，从这个角度来看，我希望能够突出设计的独特之处。
That design is so much more than the sprint framework or if you follow these six steps, you get innovation automatically. We know that design is much richer and more nuanced than that. So, how can we shine a light on these nuances and complexities as a source of nonlinear advantage? To have people understand, you know, arm with new perspectives, how can we help them understand the litany of choices that they can have as they enter a forest of ambiguity and be able to make a decision based on the best information to have at the disposal, to take a step and experiment to learn more, to get more evidence, to get more inspiration, to get more insights and data points, to then navigate to the next step of effort.
设计远不止是冲刺框架，或者说只要遵循这六个步骤就能自动获得创新。我们知道，设计比这更丰富、更微妙。那么，我们如何揭示这些复杂性和微妙之处，作为一种非线性优势的来源？为了让人们理解并掌握新的视角，我们如何帮助他们了解在进入不确定的“森林”时所面临的众多选择，并能够根据手中最好的信息做出决策，从而迈出一步进行实验，学习更多、获得更多证据、灵感、见解和数据点，从而引导下一步的努力？
Ideally, for the sake of learning our way, prototyping our way to the more relevant solution versus just any solution. I think there's an ocean of that linearity of innovation that I don't have researched back this up. This is only a hunch, but it's connected to industrialization, that as we start to automate and produce things, we should follow this line. But when we think about, you know, famous examples like Archimedes trying to figure out the volume of gold and a crown for the king, figures it out in a very nonlinear way.
理想情况下，为了更好地学习和探索，我们应该通过原型设计来找到更相关的解决方案，而不仅仅是任何一个解决方案。我认为创新的线性过程就像是一片汪洋，我并没有相关的研究来支持这一点，仅仅是一种直觉，但这和工业化有关。随着我们开始自动化和生产东西，我们应该遵循这条线性路线。然而，当我们想到一些著名的例子，比如阿基米德尝试为国王测量皇冠中的黄金体积，他是以一种非常非线性的方式解决了这个问题。
It tries to do a lot of math, a lot of formulas, can't figure it out, takes a bath, water displacement, aha, Eureka, I've got this idea. And that's kind of the way that the brain works a lot of times. It's like when we confront these intractable problems, you know, we kind of have to let it stew a bit. I'm curious how that factors into nonlinearity, that reflection process. I would sort of translate what you just described as sense making. It is not a linear act to sense make.
这段话翻译成中文是：
"它尝试做很多数学运算，处理大量公式，但算不出来。于是去洗澡，水的排放使他灵机一动，‘啊哈，我有了这个想法’。这就是我们的大脑很多时候的运作方式。就像当我们面对这些难以解决的问题时，我们需要让它沉淀一段时间。我很好奇这对非线性思维和反思过程有什么影响。我认为你刚描述的可以翻译为‘意义构建’。意义构建不是一个线性的行为。"
No matter the opportunity that's been put in front of me, especially as of late running my own practice, no matter what the brief is, I always try to exercise an MO of opening the aperture with my client partners and the teams that I work with and I am a part of. And the MO there is like, how can we make sure we're surfacing as much diverse ingredients that reflect the context of the stakeholders we're designing for, but really the world that they're operating in, the journey that they're on, not necessarily what us trying to sell a product or a service. It's like what context is surrounding that set of people in this ecology? And let's understand all the different inspirations, the data points, the business drivers, the heart constraints. But also, like what are some of the analogous inspirations we can pull in that are outside the realm of what we're focused on in the moment, because there could be bits and patterns.
无论面对什么样的机会，特别是最近经营自己的事务所时，无论任务是什么，我总是努力与我的客户伙伴及合作团队保持开放的态度。我的方法是如何确保我们能揭示出更多多样的元素，以反映我们为之设计的相关方的背景，尤其是他们所处的世界和旅程，而不仅仅是我们要销售的产品或服务。这就像是在分析这些人群在这个生态系统中的背景是什么。我们需要了解所有不同的灵感、数据点、商业动因和核心限制。同时，我们也要考虑在当前关注范围之外的类似灵感，因为它们可能包含有益的点子和模式。
I honestly believe that you got to get the team immersed in that diversity of ingredients that maybe that initial brief isn't even asking for it. But if you put all that substance around a team or give them the autonomy and empowerment to go get it and bring it into the room together, then you're allowing a natural environment where sparks and connections can naturally occur. You got to give people a little bit of freedom, a little bit of space, the right ammunition around them to be able to make those sparks and connections. And that's creativity. In your book, you talk about diversity as a flywheel and an accelerant. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that, how that works and innovation. I think as we discuss, the world is a lot smaller. The complexities of our times require us to sort of lean into each other.
我真心相信，你要让团队沉浸在各种多样的元素之中，哪怕最初的计划并没有要求这些元素。但如果你为团队提供这一切，或者赋予他们自主权和权力去获取并带到团队中，那么你就创造了一个能让火花和联系自然产生的环境。你需要给人们一点自由和空间，并提供适当的工具和支持，让他们能够产生那些火花和联系。这就是创造力。你在书中把多样性比作一个加速器和推动力。也许你可以谈谈它是如何运作的以及对创新的影响。我认为我们讨论的结果是，这个世界变得更小了，我们这个时代的复杂性要求我们更加互相依赖。
Even like notions of our lived experiences, I mean, Aaron, you mentioned painting. Some of those adjacent things that were involved in do color how we see the world. If we value the folks around the table as full human beings, if we appreciate their full humanity beyond the title, there's so much richness that we could leverage in our problem solving. If we ensure that the teams that were empowering or evolving, were growing and shaping, actually reflect and mirror the beautiful mosaic that is the world and all of the intersectionality that make us up as human beings, those adjacencies, those relationships that we already have, they respect for culture that could be intertwined in those constituents that we're claiming to design for, that can make its way into the problem solving and we're better for it. We're more astute, we're more respectful, we're more able to pick up on the nuances that could lead to unintended or intended consequences as it affects people.
即使是关于我们生活经历的概念，我是说，Aaron，你提到了绘画。我们所参与的一些相关事情确实会影响我们对世界的看法。如果我们重视周围人的完整人格，欣赏他们超越头衔的全部人性，在解决问题时我们可以利用很多丰富的资源。如果我们确保赋能、发展的团队能够真实地反映并体现世界这个美丽的马赛克，以及构成我们人类的各种交错关系，那么那些我们已经拥有的接近性和关系，对我们声称要为其设计的群体的文化尊重，就可能被融入到问题解决中，并使我们做得更好。我们会更聪明、更尊重他人、更能捕捉到会影响人们的细微差别，无论是预期的还是意外的后果。
Right now, we're feeling that in terms of algorithms not being able to pick up on the needs or the specific realities of certain groups of people. There are people already vulnerable to some of those disconnects today and we see that already. The faster the world gets, the tighter that we are intertwined together, the more diversity and design become interlinked, I believe. You mentioned earlier on that your book is part of this series that was started, the Simplicity series by John Mayeta. When John was on the show in a prior episode, he's been on a few times, he talked to us about the idea of genius design as one methodology for designing. Genius design is basically like, it's sort of like what we think of as Steve Jobs, like I came up with this idea and I made it.
目前，我们感受到算法无法识别某些群体的需求或具体情况的影响。今天已经有一些人受到了这种脱节的影响。世界发展的速度越快，我们彼此之间的联系越紧密，多样性与设计之间的联系就会越紧密，我相信这一点。你之前提到过，你的书是约翰·梅达（John Maeda）创立的"简约"系列的一部分。当约翰之前在节目中出现时，他曾多次参与讨论，并与我们分享了关于"天才设计"作为一种设计方法的理念。天才设计基本上类似于我们对史蒂夫·乔布斯（Steve Jobs）的看法：我有了这个想法，然后我实现了它。
Another example is, I know that that is not true, that's not the way that Apple has worked, but that's the perception. 37 signals for a long time, they make base camp, now they're called base camp, I believe. They sort of had this idea of we're designing for ourself. Even Ralph Lauren has said, I am the client. And to some degree, like sometimes that can work, but what you're talking about is, you know, these diverse perspectives. Problems are not always so tidy. What's your view of this idea of genius design and where does it fall short, if at all? I guess I do view it as a two-sided coin. I do agree that. I'm the sort of person who can't help but get lost in the details of creating a beautiful space.
另一个例子是，我知道那不是真的，苹果公司并不是这样运作的，但这是一种普遍的看法。37signals曾经就是这样，他们开发了Basecamp，现在他们好像就叫Basecamp了。他们一直有个理念，就是为自己设计。甚至Ralph Lauren也曾说过，我就是客户。在某种程度上，这种方法有时是可行的，但你提到的是多元化的视角。因为问题并不总是那么简单。你对这种“天才设计”理念怎么看？它是否有不足之处？我想我把它看作是一枚硬币的两面。我确实同意。我是那种在创造一个美丽的空间时，总会沉浸在细节中的人。
I'm the sort of person who can't help but get lost in the details of creating a beautiful space. I'm the sort of person who can't help but get lost in the details of creating a beautiful space. I believe that a well-designed home is a sanctuary for creative thinking, and our friends over at Theuma think the same way.
我是那种容易沉浸在创造美丽空间细节中的人。 我相信，一个设计得当的家是激发创意思维的避难所，而我们的朋友Theuma也有同样的想法。
Theuma creates modern furniture with timeless design. Their beds, their nightstands, dressers, and shelving are all built with the perfect balance of form, craftsmanship, and functionality. Using Japanese joinery techniques, each piece is crafted from the design of the design.
Theuma 创建具有永恒设计的现代家具。他们的床、床头柜、衣柜和书架都以完美的形式、工艺和功能性结合而成。每一件作品都运用日式榫卯技术，从设计中精心打造。
Using Japanese joinery techniques, each piece is crafted from solid wood and precision cut for a silent, stable foundation. I've just ordered their classic bed and headboard, and I can't wait to integrate it into my house. Assembly takes just five-ish minutes with no tools at all required, just one hand-tightened screw.
使用日本榫卯技术，每件家具都由实木制成，经过精密切割，确保安静稳定。我刚刚订购了他们的经典床架和床头板，迫不及待地想把它们搬进家里。组装只需大约五分钟，而且不需要任何工具，只需手动拧紧一个螺丝即可。
That's it. That's all that holds the bed together. It's kind of amazing. They're made to last a lifetime with a warranty to match. With clean lines, subtle curves, and minimalist style, The Theuma Bed Collection is available in four signature finishes to match any design aesthetic. You can even upgrade and customize your bed's headboard. It's pretty great. To get $100 towards your first bed purchase, go to theuma.co slash design better. That's thuma.co slash design better to get $100 off your bed purchase. Theuma.co slash design better for $100 off.
就是这样。这就是支撑床的全部。真是令人惊叹。它们被设计成能够使用一辈子，并附有相应的保修。Theuma床具系列以简洁的线条、细腻的曲线和极简风格为特点，提供四种标志性饰面，适合任何设计美学。你甚至可以升级和定制床头板。这真的很棒。首次购买床时可获得$100折扣，请访问theuma.co/designbetter。通过theuma.co/designbetter购买床具可享受$100折扣。theuma.co/designbetter，享$100折扣。
Design better is supported by Masterclass. At the start of each year, I always reflect on my life and set some concrete goals for myself. This year, one of my goals is to rethink my personal style. I jumped into Tan France's Masterclass on this topic. You may know Tan as the fashion expert on Queer Eye. Well, I learned a ton about creating a flexible capsule wardrobe, and I gotta say, I am dressing pretty sharp these days. Plus, I've been learning about business, architecture, playing music, and so much more on Masterclass. I'm in there all the time.
“更好的设计”受到了大师班的支持。每年年初，我都会反思自己的生活，并为自己设定一些具体目标。今年，我的目标之一是重新考虑个人风格。我参加了Tan France关于这一主题的大师班。你可能知道他是《粉雄救兵》中的时尚专家。我学到了很多关于如何打造一个灵活的基础衣橱，现在可以说我打扮得很有型。此外，我还在大师班上学习商业、建筑、演奏音乐等等。我经常在上面学习。
Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn from over 200 of the world's best and brightest. People like David Sedaris, Ryan Holiday, Anna Wintour, Shonda Rhimes, Martin Scorsese, and Jane Goodall to name just a few. I learned a lot about business strategy from Bob Iger's Masterclass, and Eli is a huge fan of Neil Gaiman's Masterclass on storytelling. Where in the world can you learn from this many brilliant people? With a Masterclass subscription, you get access to all these people and many more who cover a vast array of topics that will help you professionally and personally.
Masterclass 是唯一一个可以让你向来自全球200多位优秀人才学习的流媒体平台。比如大卫·塞德里斯、瑞安·霍利迪、安娜·温图尔、尚达·莱梅斯、马丁·斯科塞斯和珍·古道尔等人。我从鲍勃·艾格的商业战略课程中学到了很多，而伊莱则非常喜欢尼尔·盖曼关于故事叙述的课程。在世界上，还有哪里能让你向这么多杰出人才学习呢？通过订阅 Masterclass，你可以访问这些大师及更多专家的课程，他们涵盖广泛的话题，能帮助你在职业和个人生活中成长。
You can access Masterclass on your phone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. My wife and I often sit down together and watch a Masterclass. Right now, Design Better listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com. That's 15% off Masterclass. Masterclass.com. Masterclass.com. Design Better for 15% off.
你可以在手机、电脑、智能电视上访问Masterclass，甚至可以使用音频模式。我和妻子经常一起坐下来观看Masterclass。现在，Design Better的听众可以在masterclass.com上享受任意年会员额外15%的优惠，也就是Masterclass享受15%的折扣。访问masterclass.com，使用Design Better可获得15%的优惠。