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How did Budget 2025 stack up? | The Usual Place Podcast breaks it down

发布时间 2025-02-21 11:59:48 来源

that this budget has something for everyone, you just need to know where to find it. We've had CDC vouchers for a couple years now. Should Singaporeans expect it to be a permanent feature of the budget? I can't. An unexpected thing in this budget, you know, is this credit for cultural activities in Singapore. Maybe you can take advantage of that going to day. Yeah, so. Government day for your day. Yeah, we do. Budget 2025 dropped earlier this week on February 18, and Prime Minister Lawrence Wong said it was one for all Singaporeans. Now, we've had a few days to digest the details, and the big question I have, and perhaps you too, is did Budget 2025 stack up to what we were expecting?

这个预算方案面面俱到，只要你知道到哪里去找。我们已经有几年收到CDC代金券了。新加坡人是否应该期待它成为预算中的一个永久项目呢？我不能确定。在这个预算中，有一件出人意料的事情，那就是关于新加坡文化活动的补贴。也许你今天可以利用这个机会，是的，政府日为你的一天，是的，我们确实这样做了。2025年的预算在本周早些时候于2月18日公布，李显龙总理表示这是为所有新加坡人准备的。现在，我们已经有几天的时间来消化这些细节，我和你可能都在想的一个主要问题是，2025年的预算是否达到了我们的预期？

Now, if you're watching the usual place for the first time, hi, I'm your host Natasha, and joining me as a co-host for today is Claire Huang, the senior business chorus, Fonden, at the Straits Times. Now, Claire, what was one thing you liked about the budget and one thing you didn't like about this year's budget? This is definitely a bonanza budget. It's got lots of goodies, you know, a lot of cash transfers in the form of vouchers, as G60 vouchers. You've got CDC vouchers, you've also got U-Safe rebates, and I think all these really help. But I think there are some people who actually feel that the young adults may feel left out. Also, retirees, that's another segment of the population, and I'm talking about retirees who, you know, they're not under the low income or the vulnerable segment, and they have grown-up children, so these two segments may feel a bit, you know, left out.

如果这是您第一次在这个地方观看，那么您好，我是主持人娜塔莎，今天和我一起主持的是《海峡时报》的高级商业记者Claire Huang。那么，Claire，你认为今年的预算案中有哪些你喜欢的和不喜欢的地方呢？这次的预算案确实是一场盛宴，包含了很多好处，比如以券的形式提供了大量现金转移，包括G60券、CDC券以及U-Safe回扣。我认为这些确实有所帮助。但也有人觉得年轻人可能会感觉被忽视，还有一部分人是退休人员，我指的是那些不属于低收入或弱势群体且有成年的子女的退休人员，这两个群体可能会感觉有些被忽略。

OK, so I want to know if the three guests on our couch, on the usual place today, agree or disagree with you. But first, let me introduce them. So we have Ms. Injani Raja, the minister in the Prime Minister's office and the second minister for finance and national development. I should say welcome back, because it's your second time on the show. And next to you is Mr. Musa Fazal, Chief Policy Officer at the Singapore Business Federation, and also Mr. Walter Tisera, Associate Professor of Economics at the Singapore University of Social Sciences. Thank you all for being here, and we are going to get into your views. Maybe I should start with the two of you. OK, Minh, hang out. Mr. Musa, Prouff, what was your take on the budget 2025, and were there any surprises, or, like, Claire, were you expecting greater coverage for maybe particular groups of people?

好的，我想先了解一下今天坐在沙发上的三位嘉宾是否同意或不同意你的观点。在此之前，我先介绍一下他们。首先是英佳妮·拉贾女士，她是总理办公室的部长，也是财政和国家发展的第二部长。欢迎回来，这是您第二次参加我们的节目。接下来是穆萨·法扎尔先生，新加坡工商联合总会的首席政策官，还有沃尔特·提塞拉先生，他是新加坡社会科学大学的经济学副教授。感谢你们的到来，我们将探讨你们的看法。也许我应该从你们两位开始。好吧，穆萨先生，你对2025年的财政预算有什么看法？有没有什么让你感到意外的地方？或者像克莱尔一样，您是否预期某些特定群体会有更多的关注？

OK, so maybe I'll just start from the business community perspective. I think, first off, we want to say thank you to Minister for a very generous budget. Thank you. And we're very very very very very generous budget. I think, generally, from the feedback that we've gotten from the ground, from business leaders, we did a quick ball of business leaders immediately after the budget. More than eight in ten say they were satisfied with the budget, and that it helps to address a lot of their concerns and pain points. I think the CIT rebate, in particular, the corporate income tax rebate was very much welcomed, because it helps to address some of the immediate short-term cost pressures that businesses are facing.

好的，我就从商业界的角度开始说吧。首先，我们要感谢部长推出了一个非常慷慨的预算案。谢谢您，非常非常慷慨的预算案。从我们从企业领袖得到的反馈来看，我们做了一次快速的调查，超过八成的企业领袖表示对这个预算案感到满意，并认为它解决了许多他们的顾虑和痛点。尤其是企业所得税的减免受到了广泛欢迎，因为它有助于缓解企业目前面临的一些短期成本压力。

And I think it was generous. I don't think businesses were expecting it to match the CIT rebate last year, because I think last year the cost pressures were even more extreme, because of inflation and the impact on wage costs. And so I think businesses appreciate that, that that was there. I think businesses also feel that the budget was very much forward-looking. So if you look at a lot of the business measures, I think there's over 14 billion in terms of top-ups in various funds that are intended to support R&D, infrastructure, future energy sources and so on, which we think are really important in helping to support Singapore's economic competitiveness over the longer term.

我认为这次措施是慷慨的。我认为企业并不期望这次的公司所得税（CIT）回扣能与去年匹敌，因为去年的成本压力更加严峻，主要是由于通货膨胀和工资成本的影响。因此，我认为企业对此表示感激。企业们也普遍认为，这次的预算案非常具有前瞻性。就商业措施来看，政府在各种基金中补充了超过140亿，旨在支持研发、基础设施、未来能源等领域的发展，我们认为这些对于帮助新加坡在长期内保持经济竞争力非常重要。

So I think businesses support that. If there were certain areas where I think we were hoping to see a little bit more emphasis, I suppose one of it would be on foreign workers. So obviously manpower issues continue to be a key concern for businesses. Manpower costs, manpower availability. So a lot of businesses still rely on foreign manpower in order to augment the local workforce. And there's a lot in the budget about how we can upskill and upgrade the local workforce, but on the foreign manpower side, I think, for example, on SBS side, we did have some recommendations related to the S-pass levies and qualifying salaries to see whether some of those could be deferred in order to release some of the cost pressures on businesses.

所以我认为企业是支持这一点的。如果有哪个方面我们希望能看到更多关注，我想其中一个就是外国劳工的问题。显然，人力问题仍然是企业的一个主要关注点，比如人力成本和人力可用性。因此，许多企业仍依赖外国劳动力来补充本地劳动力。预算中有很多关于如何提升和升级本地劳动力的内容，但在外国劳动力方面，我认为，比如在地铁公司（SBS）这边，我们确实有一些关于S-pass（某种工作准证）征费和工资要求的建议，看看是否可以推迟一些措施来减轻企业的成本压力。

We had also asked if, in terms of availability, whether there could be certain liberalizations of the foreign manpower rules to help businesses that are going through this journey of transformation and need a little bit more time to be able to transform, to become more lean and more productive. So I suppose I also recognize that the budget statement cannot cover everything, and maybe some of these things might be covered. We're hoping in the Ministry of Manpower Committee of Supply and Debate. But so the foreign manpower part, I think, was something which was missing from Eelah.

我们也曾询问，是否可以在外籍劳动力法规方面进行一些放宽，以帮助正在进行转型的企业。他们需要更多的时间来变得更精简和更高效。我也明白预算声明不可能涵盖所有问题，也许这些问题会在劳动力部的预算委员会和辩论中得到解决。但是，我认为关于外籍劳动力的部分在Eelah中是缺失的。

Before we get into addresses, maybe, Prof, what was your general take on the budget? I think the key takeaway for me is that the budget is actually doing a good job of building on what, I think, previous budgets, the most recent budgets have done, in trying to support our families and workers through this very difficult economic period of very high inflation in the last couple of years. We see that, for example, there's continuing emphasis put on mitigating the cost of living pressure.

在我们讨论具体细节之前，教授，您对这次预算案的总体看法是什么？我觉得最重要的一点是，这次预算实际上很好地延续了之前几次预算的努力，特别是在过去几年高通胀的艰难经济时期，努力支持我们的家庭和工薪阶层。我们可以看到，例如，预算继续强调减轻生活成本的压力。

That's true. The CDC vouchers continue to support the CDC voucher scheme. Of course, that builds on CDC vouchers, which will already introduce in past budgets. It also builds on continuing to redistribute, to ensure that, for example, GST is not regressive by giving back through the GST vouchers scheme to low-income households. In a majority, I would say, of Singapore households in HDB. So I think that's very important, it's really building on that. When you look at workers, for example, then I think for workers, it's continuing to emphasize that the way to get past this cost of living hurdle is actually putting into place foundation for long-term wage growth.

这是真的。CDC代金券继续支持CDC代金券计划。当然，这是在之前预算中已经引入的CDC代金券的基础上构建的。此外，这也是在继续进行再分配，确保例如通过GST代金券计划返还给低收入家庭，使GST不具有累退性质。在我看来，大多数居住在政府组屋的家庭都受益于此。所以我认为这非常重要，确实是在这个基础上进行建设。当考虑到工人的情况时，我认为对于工人而言，需要继续强调跨越生活成本障碍的方法是为长期工资增长奠定基础。

So that's why I think we're very hard to see that continues to be support there for upskilling, upgrading for workers, especially I think now this recognition that the workers are doing skills upgrading on a part-time basis need also some help from training allowances and so on. So I think that was very encouraging as well. Families, I think, dare you see support for the cost of bringing up your family. I know that's the lower caps for basic preschool services through, you know, anchor operators, also support for larger families, which I think very welcome for some those Singapore institutes to have, you know, tree or more, right? So I think that's very welcome.

这就是为什么我认为我们很难看到能够持续支持工人技能提升和升级的原因。特别是在当下，大家普遍认识到那些兼职进行技能提升的工人也需要培训津贴等方面的帮助，因此我觉得这是非常令人鼓舞的。同时，对于家庭来说，您会发现政府在支持养育家庭成本方面也有所帮助。比如，通过主要运营商降低基础学前服务费用上限，以及对大家庭的支持——我认为这对那些在新加坡有三个或更多孩子的家庭来说是非常受欢迎的。所以，我觉得这些措施非常值得欢迎。

Then I guess what would I wish to see, you know, think about more? I think maybe two areas. One is, I think, thinking a bit more about perhaps redistribution or the situation facing the lower income households is not that we already don't have such systems. It's already very extensive. Lower income Singaporeans will see, you know, all of their GSE cancelled out in terms of rebates as well as all the inflation covered, right? But when I look at the SG60 vouchers that everybody got, I mean, it's not, I'm not, you know, ungrateful for that.

那么，我想我希望看到什么，并多思考些什么呢？我认为可能有两个方面。首先，我觉得也许可以多考虑一下重新分配或者低收入家庭所面临的情况。我们已经有相当广泛的帮扶系统，低收入的新加坡人可以通过各种退税以及对抗通货膨胀的补助来抵消消费税的影响，对吧？但是当我看到所有人都收到的SG60代金券时，我并不是对此不感激。

But then I think, well, what if we took that instead and put it into some kind of more permanent, perhaps, you know, the CVC voucher scheme for the most vulnerable Singaporeans? Would that be something that I could get behind as, you know, somebody who may not need that SG60 imagine? I know you've talked about, we can always donate it to charity, right? But, you know, perhaps there could also be a permanent scheme like that. That's one.

但是后来我想，那我们是否可以把这项资金用在某种更永久性的项目上，比如为最需要帮助的新加坡人提供的CVC代金券计划？这是我可能支持的事情，因为我可能不需要那SG60的补贴。虽然你提到过，我们可以把这笔钱捐给慈善机构，但或许可以有一个这样的永久性计划。这是我的一个想法。

Then thinking about families, again, you know, there is a lot of support available, especially if you're lower income. It goes all the way to making preschool quite negligible in cost. But there I started thinking, what if we started imagining that preschool was treated the same as public compulsory education for primary and secondary? Could that be an assurance given to Singaporeans? Of course, there are Singaporeans who want to buy much more so-called premium preschool services, but it's a basic tier that is, you know, that Singaporeans don't have to worry about the cost of, is that feasible or not?

再谈到家庭，大家都知道，尤其是低收入家庭，有很多可获得的支持。这些支持甚至可以让学前教育的费用变得很低。但我开始思考，如果我们想象一下，把学前教育和义务的中小学教育同等对待，将其免费提供给新加坡人，这样的保障是否可行？当然，有些新加坡人希望选择更高端的所谓“优质”学前教育服务，但能不能有一个基础保障，让新加坡人不用为费用担心呢？这是否可行？

So these are some things I started thinking about. So, men hearing three different views on. I mean, we know the goodies that were available, but there are still people who want other things, right? And as the three of them have articulated, what's your take on what they said? Well, I think you've got to see the budget in the larger context, because this is really allocating our financial resources in a strategic way. And so there were various key thrusts, but the big thrusts are this.

所以这些是我开始思考的一些事情。那么，有三种不同的观点。我的意思是，我们知道有哪些好处可以获得，但仍然有人想要其他东西，对吧？就像他们三个所表达的那样，你对他们所说的有什么看法呢？我认为，我们必须从更大的背景来看待预算，因为这是在以战略性的方式分配我们的财务资源。因此，有各个重要的重点，但主要的重点是这些。

First, tackling the cost of living pressures, because we know that's very much on people's minds. So you want to do the things which are immediate, right? CDC vouchers help with grocery living expenses. Then we know that utilities and water, so hence the U-Save, which is part of GST, and then you have the GST vouchers, and for that it's tiered in such a way that the seniors and lower income get more. Middle income do get, but seniors and lower income get more. So the bulk of that takes care of or is directed at the immediate cost of living pressures.

首先，解决生活成本的压力，因为我们知道这是人们非常关心的问题。所以你要做一些立竿见影的事情，对吧？CDC 代金券可以帮助支付杂货等生活开支。然后，我们还考虑到水电的问题，所以有 U-Save 计划，这是消费税的一部分，还有消费税代金券，并且这些代金券是分级的，因此老年人和低收入群体会得到更多。中等收入群体也会得到，但老年人和低收入者得到的更多。因此，这些措施的大部分主要是为了应对和缓解当前的生活成本压力。

But then we have to look at the bigger objective, which is you want to get the economy going, because if the economy grows, then that means more jobs, more opportunities, better income. And you can see that the way it was laid out by PM yesterday, there are three prongs to that. One is innovation and technology. The other is our enterprise ecosystem, seeing what we can do to boost it and to help our companies grow. And the third one was investment in infrastructure and future energy.

但是，我们需要着眼于更大的目标，那就是推动经济发展。因为如果经济增长，就意味着会有更多的就业机会、更多的发展机会和更好的收入。你可以看到，总理昨天所提出的规划有三个方面。第一是创新和技术。第二是我们的企业生态系统，考虑如何增强和支持企业的发展。第三是对基础设施和未来能源的投资。

So because if we get that piece right, it's going to get the jobs going. I mean, you get the jobs going, you get the income going, and then it flows back to people. And then, of course, the family part of it, because we've been working on this for some time, as you know. And this builds on what previous budgets have done. So in the last couple of budgets, we enhanced the baby bonus cash gift. We increased the CDA amounts. We also made first step. With this potential, we made extra two weeks on a voluntary basis. And then we're now making it mandatory this year, right?

所以，如果我们把这部分做好，工作机会就会增加。我的意思是，工作机会增加了，收入也会增加，进而回馈到人们手中。当然，还有家庭方面的部分，因为正如你所知，我们已经在这方面做了一段时间。这是基于之前预算工作的基础。因此，在过去几次预算中，我们提高了生育奖励金和婴儿培育账户的金额。我们也迈出了第一步。基于这一潜力，我们额外增加了两周的自愿休假。今年，我们将其改为强制性的，对吧？

And we also announced that this year, the shared parental leave would kick in. Six weeks this year, four weeks next year, so 10 weeks in total. So these are the building blocks. Then for this year's budget, we said, okay, we've done those building blocks for families. What's the next thing? And we said large families, or larger families, because one of the things that's holding people back from having, well, for first, they have to get to the decision of having one child or two. But most, after two, start being concerned about, even more concerned about costs.

我们还宣布，今年将启动共享育儿假。本年度六周，明年四周，总共十周。这些是基础措施。然后在今年的预算中，我们考虑到，我们已经为家庭建立了这些基础。接下来要做什么呢？我们关注到大家庭，或者说较大的家庭，因为一个阻碍人们决定生育的问题是：首先，得决定要生一个孩子还是两个。但大多数人在生了两个孩子之后，会更加担心成本问题。

So we said, well, if we want to encourage them, then we should need to get them over that hurdle, and hence the large family scheme. Then, of course, the other things like, you know, the city, climate resilience, and making sure that we're sustainable, all the rest of it. So you should see it in that context that the specific strategies that are needed but at the same time to alleviate media cost pressures, and of course, to be able to celebrate SG60. Minister, how far do you think these measures, right, in all, go in helping Singapore, you know, deal with future challenges?

因此，我们说，如果我们想鼓励他们，就需要帮助他们跨越那个障碍，这就是推出大型家庭计划的原因。当然，还有其他事情，比如城市建设、气候适应能力，以及确保我们的可持续性等等。因此，你应该在这样的背景下看待这些具体策略，它们是必需的，同时也为了缓解媒体成本压力，并庆祝新加坡建国60周年。部长，您认为这些措施在多大程度上帮助新加坡应对未来挑战？

And we have two bad things in mind. A lot of the measures are short and medium term, yeah? And the second thing is we are now moving into an era where, you know, the climate is such that there are a lot of uncertainty and tensions. So I'm just wondering, you know, when you look at it in totality, how does it help us, how far does it go in helping, you know, Singapore, move Singapore forward? I think it goes quite a long way in doing that because the measures are both near term, as well as long term. So near term would be things in terms of the economy, right?

我们心里有两个不好的事情。很多措施都是短期和中期的，对吧？第二件事是，我们正在进入一个局势不稳定、充满不确定性和紧张气氛的时代。所以，我只是想知道，当你整体考虑这些措施时，它们对我们有什么帮助，能在多大程度上推动新加坡前进？我认为它们在这方面做了很多，因为这些措施既有近期的，也有长期的。近期的措施主要涉及经济方面，对吗？

We want to anchor businesses here. So the private credit growth fund, for example, and then the tax incentives in this far as we want to get companies listed here in our stock exchange, the R&D, we want to mix Singapore manufacturing hub as well. So basic advanced manufacturing hub. So basically, anchoring the businesses here. And that's going to have both short as well as longer term gains. But then you've got all the future stuff, for example, infrastructure investments in the port. That's going to bring logistics, business, Singapore will continue to be a logistics hub.

我们希望吸引企业到这里扎根。例如，私人信贷增长基金和税收优惠政策就是一些措施，因为我们希望公司能在我们的证券交易所上市。此外，我们还想把新加坡打造成一个制造中心，一个高级制造中心。总的来说，就是要把企业留在这里。这将为我们带来短期和长期的收益。此外，还有未来的发展，例如港口的基础设施投资。这将促进物流业务的发展，新加坡将继续是一个物流中心。

There's the investments or the monies that we set aside for Changi for T5 because that's going to get us connected to the region and the world. And that kind of connectivity means that we have access to markets, people will be coming in, coming through, and that's not going to take place just in the next five or even ten years. That's for the next 15, 20, 30 years. So it's really long term. And then the way we're looking at coastal resilience, long island, looking at greater southern waterfront, looking at the the the the the the Northern coast.

我们为樟宜机场第五航站楼（T5）预留了资金或投资，因为这将使我们与区域和全球连接。这种连接意味着我们可以进入市场，吸引人们来到和通过这里，而这不仅仅是在未来五年或甚至十年内的事情，而是未来15、20甚至30年的布局。因此，这是一个真正的长期项目。同时，我们也在关注沿海地区的韧性，例如长岛、大南部海滨和北部海岸的规划。

All of these are very long term. But the money is starting to be put aside in this budget for that. And of course, energy. Energy is going to be our biggest challenge going forward, right? So, as PM said, we're going to invest heavily in clean energy and then explore and see whether nuclear is a feasible possibility. Explore that potential, work with partners, build up our capability. So you can see it's both near term as well as long term.

这些都是非常长期的计划。但是，这次预算中已经开始为此预留资金。当然，能源是我们未来面临的最大挑战，对吗？所以，正如首相所说，我们将大力投资于清洁能源，然后探索核能是否具有可行性。我们会研究这个潜力，与合作伙伴合作，提升我们的能力。这样你可以看到，这既是短期的，也是长期的计划。

So let's deep dive into different themes that came out from this budget. So one of the things was some measures were about tackling cost pressures, you know, on with families and Singaporeans, right? So as Claire mentioned, various range of measures. How far do you think these measures will go to reserving cost of living questions? Yeah. Prof, maybe you want to kick us off. So when you look at cost of living, the single most important thing I think you can do to help families in cost of living is to make sure that they've got jobs. And also to make sure, of course, that jobs have got sustainable, real wage growth. So people's standards of living are improving. I think that's the most important thing.

那么，让我们深入探讨这个预算中出现的不同主题。其中一个主题涉及到应对家庭和新加坡人面临的成本压力。正如克莱尔提到的，有各种各样的措施。您认为这些措施在多大程度上能解决生活成本问题？教授，也许您可以先谈谈。对于生活成本，最重要的事情是确保家庭有就业机会，还要确保工作能带来可持续的实际工资增长。这样才能提高人们的生活水平。我认为这是最重要的。

But of course, in the short term, what has been going on is, I think, in the last couple of years, there have been some periods where global inflation has run much higher, much faster than wages were able to keep up. Now, in the most recent year or so, at least wages were able to keep ahead of inflation. But you look at last couple of years, it was kind of like neck and neck, belly ahead. And that is where I think Singaporeans do want or expect the government to help.

当然，从短期来看，过去几年中有一些时期，全球通货膨胀的速度远远超过了工资增长。然而，在最近的一年左右，工资至少能够超越通货膨胀。不过，回顾过去几年，这种情况可以说是旗鼓相当，通胀略有领先。这就是为什么许多新加坡人希望或期望政府能够提供帮助。

And that's where I think targeted assistance, like feedy-fee vouchers, you know, which practically all Singaporean households, I mean, in fact, do get, as well as other kinds of support, which are more tiered, more oriented towards Singapore households through more needy, that will come in to ensure that households can, for the most part, still consume the same kinds of things as they were, you know, as they did before, right? This random inflation. But that being said, right, it's also important, I think, that households also look at what they're buying, and also think about whether they want to adjust some of the expenditure patterns.

这就是为什么我认为有针对性的援助，比如食品券，是非常重要的。实际上，几乎所有新加坡家庭都会收到这类援助，以及其他更有层次的支持措施，这些措施特别面向更需要帮助的新加坡家庭。这样可以确保家庭大部分情况下仍能像之前一样消费他们习惯的商品，尽管有随机出现的通货膨胀。但是，我也认为，家庭需要审视自己的购买行为，并考虑是否需要调整一些消费模式。

What I'm saying here is that I don't mean that, you know, all of us have got to, like, eat less or anything like that, but I think it's more about shopping smart, right? And then, you know, perhaps shifting what you're buying and so on, right? Yeah, I don't think. Yeah, I hope so. People will be like, what? Like, you'll change my whole life, so. Yeah, so it's not about, yeah, completely changing your whole lifestyle, right? But I think it's about the reality that when prices change, you've got to change behaviour, right?

我想说的是，我并不是在建议大家都得少吃点或者类似的，而是觉得更重要的是要聪明购物，对吧？也许可以调整一下你购买的东西等等。我不认为...希望大家不是觉得“你要我改变整个生活方式”那样就好了。所以我不是说要彻底改变你的生活方式，而是想说，当价格变化时，我们需要改变一下自己的消费行为。

And ideally, you change your behaviour in a way that allows you to maintain your standard living, but then you don't go, you know, wasting your entire paycheck or anything like that. So I think cost of living vouchers and so on, they're great, they help to mitigate that, but, you know, we also have to be smart consumers and shoppers, and in the longer run, longer term, I think it's really about finding better jobs of skilling and so on, which is where also the budget does put in framework to help Singaporeans do that.

理想情况下，你会调整你的行为方式，以便在不浪费整个月薪的前提下，维持你的生活标准。我认为生活成本券等措施是很好的，它们帮助缓解生活压力。但我们也应该成为聪明的消费者和购物者。从长远来看，我认为真正重要的是寻找更好的工作，提升技能等方面，这也是预算案中帮助新加坡人实现这一目标的框架所在。

Okay, on the shopping smart, right? This one, not so much budget, but I should put in a word for N2C Fair Price, because almost every day of the week they have got some discount going on, there'll be some where it's for, you know, pioneer generation or for seniors, sometimes they'll have for something else, so choose your day before you go after N2C and then you can take advantage of that. Okay, and can you see the CDC vouchers?

好的，关于精明购物，对吧？这个不太算省钱的建议，但我还是想提一下N2C Fair Price，因为他们几乎每天都有一些促销，比如针对先驱一代或者老年人有优惠，有时候也会有其他类型的折扣，所以在去N2C之前先选好日子，这样你就可以利用这些优惠。好的，你能看到CDC代金券吗？

Yeah, that's true. Like, yeah. Talking about Fair Price, Minister, you know, I'm just trying to understand the CDC vouchers, right? Well, they're very good and I appreciate them, you know, because I benefit from it. Yeah. I'm just wondering why the government is using this as a strategy and why not go straight into the root of the problem, which is tackling the cost of items, you know?

是的，没错。关于公平价格的讨论，部长，您知道，我只是想了解一下CDC代金券，对吧？嗯，这些代金券真的很好，我非常感激，因为我也从中受益。是啊。我只是想知道政府为什么用这种策略，而不直接解决问题的根源，比如降低商品的成本呢？

Yeah, because CDC vouchers, while I benefit and, you know, a lot of people benefit and we're happy to have them, so the problem with it is it's kind of seen or viewed by some as drip feet. It's also viewed as probably like driving prices up, prices of items, goods, food up. So I'm just trying to get a sense of, you know, why CDC vouchers. Yeah. It's a really good question and let me just give some background to it.

是的，因为虽然我和很多人都从CDC代金券中受益，并且为得到它们感到高兴，但问题在于，有些人把它视为一种滴灌式的救济。此外，它还被认为可能导致物价上涨，包括商品和食品的价格。所以我只是想弄清楚，为什么会有CDC代金券。是的，这是个很好的问题，让我来提供一些背景信息。

When we came out of COVID and then you had the Ukraine war and all the supply logistical issues, that was what was driving prices up. It started off with the logistics issues, then of course once you had Russia, Ukraine war and then the oil energy that all fed into it, right? And we were looking at how to deal with that. So a few things. I mean, Singapore doesn't produce an awful lot of our own. We buy a lot. So you can't tell other countries, hey, lower your prices for us. It's just, it's not feasible. So we have to buy the price that they sell to us.

当我们走出COVID疫情时，又爆发了乌克兰战争，加上供应链和物流问题，这些因素导致了价格上涨。起初是物流问题，后来俄乌战争的爆发以及相关的石油能源问题一起推高了价格，对吧？我们在研究如何应对这些问题。需要说明的是，新加坡自身的生产能力有限，很多东西都依赖进口。因此，我们不能要求其他国家为我们降低价格，这种要求并不实际。因此，我们必须按照他们的价格进行采购。

We have price stickers mostly. The first thing we did, MAS did, was adjust monetary policy. And they did that, I think, about five times, if I'm not mistaken, to try and make sure that the costs were more affordable so that the same dollar was able to buy more. So that was step number one. But that would not have been enough. We obviously had to assist. And the question is, do you just straight away plow in a whole bunch of cash, which might have an unintended inflationary spiral effect? Because it could have that effect if you're not careful about it. So we were very careful to make sure that if we do give the assistance, you give the assistance in a targeted way so that it helps with what is the greatest pain point.

我们主要有价格标签。我们采取的第一步措施，MAS采取的第一步措施，是调整货币政策。我记得，他们大约调整了五次，目的是让成本更可负担，使同样的一美元能购买更多东西。这是第一步措施。然而，这还不够。我们显然需要提供帮助。问题在于，是否要直接投入大量资金，这可能会导致意想不到的通胀螺旋效应。如果不谨慎，这种效应可能会发生。所以我们非常小心地确保，在提供帮助的时候，我们是有针对性地进行，以便缓解最大的痛点。

And the greatest pain point was really food groceries and utilities bills. And that was the start of the CDC voucher. It was really intended to assist with daily cost of living assistance. And then the YouSafe one came about when we wanted to tackle the utilities part. So having done that, we also said, well, if you're going to tackle cost of living, where do people shop mostly? At that time, it was just coming out of COVID. And you remember the heartland shops were really suffering. The hawkers not so much because during COVID period, a lot of people went to the hawkers and the heartland shops.

最大的问题实际上是食品杂货和水电费。这就是社区发展理事会（CDC）代金券的起源。它本来是为了帮助降低日常生活开支。然后，当我们想要解决水电费的问题时，就有了YouSafe计划。在这之后，我们还考虑到，如果要解决生活成本问题，人们大多会在哪里购物？那时候，我们刚刚走出COVID疫情。你还记得社区商店真的很困难，而小贩摊位相对好一些，因为疫情期间很多人去社区商店和小贩摊位购物。

So we said that maybe we should do, you know, achieve two goals with this. And as you can use it, but use it in the heartland shops so that you also boost the local heartland economy. And then everybody's happy about that, but the feedback came. But we also do a lot of our grocery shopping in the supermarkets. So we would therefore like to be able to have the CDC vouchers extend to supermarkets. And we had to look at supermarkets that had the back end systems that would be able to process the CDC vouchers.

所以我们说，也许我们应该用这个计划来实现两个目标。你可以使用这些代金券，但最好在社区商店使用，以此来促进当地经济发展。大家对此都很满意，但我们收到的反馈是，很多人也在超市购物。所以，我们希望这些社区发展理事会（CDC）代金券也能在超市使用。因此，我们需要检查哪些超市有相应的后端系统来处理这些CDC代金券。

So obviously started off with NTUC and then it's expanded to some of the others. And that was why the following year, we extended it half of it for heartland shops and for hawker centers and the other half for the supermarkets. So you can see the evolution of it, but it's still intended to be helping with cost of living. Because if you just do a straight cash outright, then somebody might just go and splurge it all in one go. And then you're still left with the cost of living items which are not addressed. So that's the thinking behind it.

显然，我们首先从NTUC开始，然后扩展到其他一些地方。正因为如此，第二年我们把其中一半的优惠延伸到了社区商店和小贩中心，而另一半则用于超市。可以看出这个计划的发展变化，但其初衷依然是帮助缓解生活成本。如果我们直接发放现金，有些人可能会一次性花光，而生活成本的问题并没有得到解决。这就是背后的考虑。

Yeah, but Minister, as it is, right, we are already being told that hawkers, some hawkers are actually thinking of, because they're factoring in all these vouchers. So some shops along the food chain, basically the supply chain, all the way to the hawkers, they are starting to think about increasing prices. So then that drives prices up as well. Wouldn't it be better, for instance, fair price? We all get our stuff from fair price. It's one of the biggest retailers. It's probably, it has the monopoly in some sense in Singapore.

是的，部长，不过目前来说吧，我们已经听说一些小贩在考虑，因为他们要把所有这些优惠券计算在内。这导致供应链上的一些商店，甚至小贩们，也开始考虑涨价。这就推动了价格上涨。那么，如果我们采取一个比如说公平价格的策略，会不会更好呢？我们都从FairPrice购买东西，它是最大的零售商之一。在某种意义上它在新加坡几乎是垄断的。

So wouldn't it be better that fair price set the kind of price level as to what is affordable in that sense? And I'm going back in history, because if you look at our founding fathers, they're very brilliant. And they came up with this idea that we are going to help make sure that blue collar workers can actually afford the essential food items, can afford insurance. And that's where it started, right? So can we not do that instead? Because right now when you compare some of the fair price items, Shingsong, that's better. So nothing to stop people from going to buy from Shingsong.

那么，从这个角度来看，如果公平价格设定在一个人们可以负担得起的水平，不是更好吗？我回顾历史，如果你看看我们的开国元勋，他们非常聪明。他们提出了一个想法：我们要确保蓝领工人能够负担得起基本的食品和保险。这就是一切的起点，对吧？那我们为什么不能这样做呢？因为现在如果比较一些公平价格的商品，Shingsong更好。所以，人们完全可以去Shingsong购买。

And don't forget the CDC vouchers also help the heartland shops. So basically you want to give people choice. They have choice of hawker centres, they have choice of the heartland shops, they have choice of going to fair price, and any of the other supermarkets that accept CDC vouchers. So basically spread the love around and make sure that people have the ability to use the CDC vouchers in various ways.

别忘了，消费者发展基金（CDC）代金券也能帮助邻里商店。所以，你基本上是想给人们提供选择。他们可以选择小贩中心，可以选择邻里商店，可以去职总平价超市（FairPrice），还有其他接受CDC代金券的超市。简单来说，就是要让大家分享这份便利，确保人们能够以各种方式使用CDC代金券。

I just wanted to add that what Mr. said is an important point, which is the role of the CDC vouchers in helping small businesses in our heartland enterprises. So I think that there are a group that do need additional support and help. I think what Prof mentioned about productivity and how productivity is lagging in certain sectors, many of these are the domestic facing sectors, including FMB and retail. So they do need some additional help in order to be able to make that transformation to become more productive, but in the meantime costs are going up.

我只是想补充一点，刚才先生提到的一个重要观点是，CDC代金券在帮助我们内地企业中的小企业方面的作用。因此，我认为有一部分企业确实需要额外的支持和帮助。同时，我认同教授提到的关于生产力的问题，就是某些行业的生产力正在滞后，许多这些行业是面向国内市场的，比如食品饮料和零售行业。所以这些行业确实需要一些额外的支持来实现转型，提高生产力，但与此同时，成本也在上升。

And some of these costs are, as a result, for example, the progressive wage model. So many of these are FMB and retail sectors also hire a lot of low-wage workers, older workers, and their costs are going up as a result. It's important for us to pay these workers a decent wage so that they are able to have a dignified form of living, but at the same time it does raise costs. And so we do need to find some way to support some of these enterprises to be able to tie through this difficult period of making a transformation journey.

这些成本上升的原因之一是渐进工资模式。因此，许多食品饮料和零售行业雇用了大量低工资和年长员工，他们的成本因此增加。我们需要支付给这些工人一份体面的薪水，以便他们能够过上有尊严的生活，但与此同时，这也提高了企业的成本。因此，我们需要找到某种方式来支持这些企业，以便能够渡过这一转型期的艰难时期。

And I think the CDC vouchers do help. So maybe I can make a few observations. I think one is on the role of the CDC vouchers and maybe influencing pricing and so on at a local level. And I think first, I want to say that I think the hawkers and also the heartland merchants have had a very difficult time with it last couple of years because whether we, the Confuima, you don't think inflation is real or not, the fact is that for them, when they talk to the suppliers, when the import ingredient product in so on, the prices have gone up.

我觉得CDC代金券确实有所帮助。所以我想分享一些看法。首先，我认为CDC代金券在某种程度上影响了地方的价格。我要说的是，过去几年对小贩和社区商贩来说非常困难。无论我们消费者是否认为通货膨胀是真实的，对他们来说，当他们与供应商沟通，或者进口原材料时，价格确实上涨了。

And if they say, I don't want to pay those higher prices, you know, basically the countries who are sending us goods, they're happy to send them somewhere else. That's the reality, right? So yes, our hawkers, heartland merchants are facing a lot of price pressures, input cost pressures. And I think when they come to the consumer and they have to give the consumer a justification for why the prices are going up, I think you can't blame them if they look for reasons that are going to sound maybe more palatable to us as consumers than talking about, well, actually my costs went up and you know, like I have to make a living and blah, blah, blah, right?

如果他们说不想支付更高的价格，其实那些向我们出口商品的国家很乐意把商品卖给其他地方。这就是现实，对吧？所以，我们的街边小贩和社区商贩面临很大的价格压力和成本压力。我认为，当他们向消费者解释价格上涨的原因时，如果他们找一些听起来比直接说“我的成本增加了，我也得维持生计”等更容易接受的理由，我们也不能责怪他们。

So sometimes the reasons they may come up with are things like, oh, you all got CDC vouchers. So, okay, like you can pay more, right? Or they may say, oh, but GST went up. That's why my prices went up. So the thing is, it's convenient sometimes for them to look for reasons that sound better to us so that we don't get unhappy with them. But you know, the reality is that, yeah, I mean, they have to make a living, right?

有时候，他们可能会找出一些理由，比如“哦，你们都有育婴补助券，对吧？所以你们能支付更多，对吗？”或者他们可能会说，“哦，因为消费税上涨了，所以我的价格也上升了。”其实，有时候他们找这些听起来合理的理由是为了让我们不对他们感到不满。但实际上，他们也是需要谋生的，对吧？

And then, you know, in many cases, they've been absorbing the price increases for quite a while, and they're just trying to figure out where their brains, when can I raise prices because I've been absorbing this for months and months. And so, you know, when something hits like GST or CDC vouchers, they say, oh, uh-huh, this is a good time for me to tell, unfortunately, my customers, I look, I got to do it, right? So that's how it works.

然后，你知道，在许多情况下，他们已经承受价格上涨很长一段时间了，他们只是在努力找出一个合适的时机：什么时候可以提高价格，因为他们已经忍受了好几个月。因此，当遇到像商品及服务税（GST）或消费者折扣券（CDC）这种情况时，他们会说，哦，嗯，这正是一个好时机来告诉我的顾客，很遗憾，我不得不涨价，对吧？所以事情就是这样运作的。

But then, I think coming to Y CDC vouchers and why not other policy figures? Because I think you are hinting at why this in the government control prices. I mean, it's to explain the difficulty of that, you know? I don't actually think it's to control prices. I'm saying fair price can set the tone for everybody. Yeah. Right.

但是，我想谈谈为什么是 Y CDC 优惠券，而不是其他政策措施？因为我觉得你在暗示为什么政府控制价格。我的意思是，这也是为了说明其中的困难，你知道吗？我并不认为这真的是为了控制价格。我是说，合理的价格可以为所有人定下基调。对吧。

Okay. So there can be perhaps, okay. So let's say government doesn't control prices, but you look at policies like subsidies, or you look at basically, how do you, uh, smooth when you might say the supply chain to make prices as low as possible, right? So I think there, first, I think for the large supermarket change in Singapore, I think the best way to actually ensure that the prices are as low as possible is to ensure that, uh, basically these large chains are competing with each other vigorously.

好的。那么，假设政府不直接控制价格，但可以通过政策手段，比如补贴，或者通过优化供应链来尽量降低价格。我认为，在新加坡的大型超市连锁店中，确保价格尽可能低的最佳方式是让这些大型连锁店积极竞争。

So I think it's not so much about, you know, fair price or whatever, but it's about, do we have a variety of choices in our local neighborhoods? And, yeah, you know, the supermarkets are able to access, you know, good retail sites and so on for them to compete for our business and so on. I think as long as that is in place, that is what actually helps to get you the lowest possible prices true, having more efficient supply chain.

所以我认为，这不仅仅是关于公平价格或其他类似的东西，而是关于我们当地社区是否有多样化的选择。是的，超市能够找到好的零售位置来竞争我们的消费。这种情况下，拥有更高效的供应链确实可以帮助我们获得尽可能低的价格。

Um, but I just wanted to touch briefly, I think, on, sometimes people do call for price controls or subsidies and so on as you see in some of the countries. And I think that really it's not that it cannot be done, but whether it's just the best use of our taxpayer money. Because we see with subsidies in particular, uh, there's a lot of you might say leakage, leakage, meaning that people get the subsidy who don't really need it.

嗯，我只是想简单说一下，有时候人们确实会像你在一些国家看到的那样，呼吁进行价格管制或提供补贴。我认为这并不是说不能这样做，而是说这是否是我们纳税人资金的最佳使用方式。因为我们看到，特别是在补贴方面，会出现许多所谓的“泄漏”现象，也就是说，一些不真正需要补贴的人也得到了补贴。

You subsidize basic products, you think, oh, uh-huh, I will help the average Singaporean, but actually it is the richest Singaporean who spends more on everything, including basic items. So you just get a lot of subsidy money going to them, maybe disproportionately, if that were to happen. So I think that's why Straight Out Voucher Scheme would be considered by most economists to be more efficient, better use of your taxpayer dollar than some of the other proposals out there.

你补贴基本产品，你可能会想，“哦，我这样做是为了帮助普通的新加坡人。” 但实际上，最富有的新加坡人在所有消费中花费更多，包括基本用品。因此，补贴的资金可能更多地流向了他们，这种情况可能是不成比例的。因此，我认为，这就是为什么大多数经济学家认为直接发放代金券的计划更为高效，它比其他一些提案能更好地利用纳税人的钱。

We've had CDC vouchers for a couple of years now. Should Singaporeans expect it to be a permanent feature of the budget? He can do it all. I think you have to look at the genesis of CDC vouchers, which was to provide targeted assistance. And I think our position has always been that if there's a need, then we will assist. But, you know, if the economy improves and things get better and cost-a-living become more manageable, then obviously there would be less of a need. The key strategy, actually, is not more CDC vouchers. It is what Walter alluded to, which is how can we raise incomes where there's real value, real productivity, which is why a very large chunk of the money went towards boosting the economy to grow opportunities and jobs.

我们已经有了几年CDC购物券。新加坡人是否应该期望这成为预算中的永久项目呢？其实，你需要了解CDC购物券的初衷，即提供针对性的援助。我们的立场一直是，如果有需求，我们就会提供帮助。但是，如果经济改善，生活成本变得更加可控，那么显然需求就会减少。其实，关键的战略并不是更多的CDC购物券，而是提高实际收入及生产力，这也是为什么我们将大量资金用于推动经济，以创造更多的机会和就业。

And another very large chunk went into skills future and upskilling and helping people to pivot to new jobs and new opportunities, because that's where the additional income, the higher income, is going to come from, which would hopefully in time make less of a need to have CDC vouchers. And that was the perfect way to my next question, because the other theme that came up in the budget was actually about support for businesses and workers as you mentioned, enabling them to upskill. Now, the thing about upskilling is I want to find out, was there a particular industrial specific type of worker that the government wants to push, like, make this a priority for?

另一大部分资金投入到了技能未来和技能提升，以及帮助人们转向新工作和新的机会，因为这将是额外收入和更高收入的来源，希望这样一来能减少对CDC优惠券的需求。这正好引出了我的下一个问题，因为预算中提到的另一个主题实际上是关于对企业和工人的支持，如你所说，帮助他们提升技能。关于技能提升，我想了解一下，政府是否优先推动某个特定行业的工人？

Is it like everybody must go for upskilling? And then, do we have the jobs to fit this new skills? Right. That's a really good question, and I'm sure the others will jump into. I think the group that we are most concerned with are those age 14 above. And why do we say that? Because if you're just coming out of school, probably University ITE, you're equipped with the latest of what the schools have to teach, and you're coming in armed with whatever is the latest knowledge, right? So the students who come out of the university in Poly, they're going to be the very tech savvy ones.

是不是每个人都必须提升技能呢？然后，我们是否有足够的工作岗位来匹配这些新技能？确实，这是一个非常好的问题，我相信其他人也会参与讨论。我们最关注的群体是14岁及以上的人。为什么这样说呢？因为如果你刚从学校毕业，比如大学或工艺教育学院，你已经掌握了学校最新教授的知识，并且带着最新的知识进入职场。也就是说，从大学和理工学院毕业的学生通常都非常擅长技术。

They're the ones who have less issue with technology, digital, even AI. The ones who have been working for some time, used to working in a certain way, and now suddenly finding that because of technology, because of AI, because of other things, the way they do the job is changing, or the job is gone. And then they have to pivot or to switch to something else, or they have to learn how to do the same thing in a different way. Those are the ones that's more difficult, and then they have to acquire new skills.

他们是那些对技术、数字化、甚至人工智能没那么多问题的人。这些人已经工作了一段时间，习惯于按某种方式工作，而现在突然发现，由于技术、人工智能和其他因素，他们的工作方式正在改变，或者工作本身消失了。然后，他们不得不转型或转向其他事情，或必须学习如何以不同方式做同样的事情。这对他们来说更困难，他们需要掌握新的技能。

So last year's budget, remember, we introduced the Skills Future Level Up program that had additional money for courses, but most interestingly, for those who want to take a diploma. So for those who already have a diploma, you can take a second diploma, for those who have a degree, you can actually go ahead and take a diploma on a subject which you always wanted to know about, but weren't able to. And of course, if you come from ITE, you can also have access to that. That's all part of the upskilling, and there's a range of ways in which this is done.

还记得去年的预算吗？我们推出了“技能未来晋级计划”。这个计划为课程提供了额外资金，尤其是对那些想要攻读文凭的人来说，更具吸引力。对于已经拥有文凭的人，你可以再攻读第二个文凭；对于拥有学位的人，你可以选择学习一个你一直想了解但之前没机会攻读的文凭课程。当然，如果你来自工艺教育学院（ITE），你也可以参与其中。这一切都是提升技能的一部分，有多种方式可以实现这一目标。

The simplest one is you go for a course. Then the other one is the diploma, the other is where you have to retrain. And at the same time, we have those programs where you train in the company, where you have CTCs, the company training centres, and the ones where you are placed in the company, you train there, and you see whether you can get a job with the company later on. So it's kind of like not one size fits all. Skills Future is one name, but it's multifaceted with different types of programs really to help the older mid-career person who's seeing their employment landscape change.

最简单的一种方式就是参加课程。其次是获得文凭，还有一种情况是你需要重新培训。与此同时，我们还有一些项目是在公司内部进行培训的，比如公司培训中心（CTCs），以及将员工安置在公司中培训的项目，通过这种方式，你可以看看将来是否有机会在这家公司获得工作。因此，这不是一种通用的方法。“未来技能”是一个名字，但它实际上包含了多种类型的项目，旨在帮助那些看到就业环境变化的中年职业人士。

It's really to equip them and help them to find new jobs or new opportunities. Mr. Rachael? I'm not sure that I would say that Skills Future only applies to certain sectors. No, no, I said that's the priority group. I was responding to her. I agree with you, Minister, that the priority group might be older workers. But I think that across all sectors, there are emerging manpower needs, manpower shortages, and there's a need for us to be able to support workers to be able to move dynamically.

这实际上是为了给他们提供装备，帮助他们找到新工作或新机会。Rachael先生？我不确定我会说未来技能计划只适用于某些行业。不，不，我说的是优先群体。我是在回应她。我同意您的看法，部长，优先群体可能是年长的员工。但我认为在所有领域都存在新的劳动力需求和短缺，我们有必要支持员工能够灵活地进行转岗。

Across the economy into new job roles as the economy restructures. I see Skills Future as being a very important tool in allowing us to be able to do this. And PM in his speech, they talked about some of the new growth sectors. He talked about biosciences, med tech, and so on. Housing up our producers, 80% of the world's DNA chips. So there are plenty of exciting new job opportunities for how can we support Singaporeans in terms of embracing some of these new job opportunities.

随着经济重组，各个行业开始出现新的职位角色。我认为“未来技能计划”是一个非常重要的工具，可以帮助我们实现这一目标。总理在他的演讲中提到了几个新的增长领域，比如生物科学、医疗技术等。他还提到我们生产了全球80%的DNA芯片。因此，有许多令人兴奋的新工作机会。那么，我们如何支持新加坡人抓住这些新的就业机遇呢？

I think Skills Future is very important in that respect. I think for us, one of the important things, though, is that training shouldn't be done for the sake of training. So we firmly believe that actually company-led training is critical. Employers play a very important part in this. And it benefits both the employers in making sure that the training actually meets the job needs of that employer. It also benefits the workers, because I think at the end of the day, workers want to go for training, which results in wage increases or makes them more employable to be deployed across different types of job roles and so on.

我认为，新加坡的未来技能计划在这方面非常重要。不过，我们认为，培训不应该只是为了培训而进行。我们坚信由公司主导的培训至关重要。雇主在其中扮演着非常重要的角色。这样不仅确保培训符合雇主的工作需求，也能使员工受益。因为我认为，对于员工而言，他们希望通过培训能获得加薪或提高他们的就业能力，从而能够胜任不同类型的工作岗位。

So we're very happy to see measures in the budget that try to tie workforce transformation with enterprise transformation efforts and workforce development grant. We also think that some of these grants, the businesses do face certain challenges in terms of being able to fully utilize them. So, for example, when businesses want to take up a new digitalization tool, actually there is an up-skilling component associated with that. You need to train the workers to make use of that new digital tool.

因此，我们非常高兴地看到预算中的一些措施，努力将劳动力转型与企业转型努力以及劳动力发展补助金相结合。我们也认为，在利用这些补助金时，企业确实面临一些挑战。例如，当企业希望采用新的数字化工具时，实际上需要进行技能提升部分。也就是说，你需要培训员工，以使用该新的数字工具。

But today, the way the system works, there are different government agencies that you apply to for the digitalization tool, a different government agency that you apply to to redesign the job, a different one that you apply to for training. So, trying to bring this together and look at it holistically from the perspective of businesses, because I think there's a bit of an application button, so the grants are out there. It's not like the grants are not out there. But if I have to apply to many different government agencies and they all have different requirements and procedures that I must fulfill in order to be able to qualify for the grant, then it becomes a heavy button not to be able to go through this.

但在如今的体制下，为了获取数字化工具、岗位重新设计以及培训的支持，需要向不同的政府部门申请。这种分散的做法使得企业很难从整体上考虑这些问题。虽然政府提供了各种补助，但申请流程非常复杂，每个部门都有不同的要求和程序。如果我必须分别向许多不同的政府部门申请，并且满足各自的要求，这将成为一项繁重的负担，让人难以顺利完成申请过程。

So, the workforce development grant, which amalgamate some of these workforce transformation grants together, we find that very promising and we're looking forward to hearing more details about how that's going to work for businesses. Yeah, so I think there are two groups of workers. I'm personally quite concerned about, which I think was echoed actually also by government and business, right? Which is younger, lower-wage workers. And here we're thinking particularly about persons who need some help with upskilling, so they can move up the wage and skills ladder.

所以，劳动力发展补助金将一些劳动力转型资金合并在一起，我们发现这是一个非常有前景的举措，并期待了解更多关于这些资金将如何惠及企业的细节。是的，我个人非常关心两个群体的工人，我想政府和企业实际上也表达了类似的关切，那就是年轻的、低收入的工人。我们尤其考虑到那些需要技能提升帮助的人，以便他们能够在工资和技能阶梯上更进一步。

And also you've got people in this group who might have somehow missed out on the opportunity to complete their formal education or go as far as they could have, maybe because of pressure to find work to support their families and so on. So, I think that's one group where we really do need to think about first, what are the kinds of careers and job opportunities they could have, where ideally they get support within the companies to actually continue upskilling. And of course, that support comes from the, I think, a combination ideally of the company, perhaps the unions as well as the government.

在这个群体里，还有一些人可能因为各种原因错过了完成正规教育的机会，或者没有达到他们本可以达到的教育水平，可能是由于要找工作来支持家庭等压力所致。所以，我认为这是我们真正需要优先考虑的一个群体。我们需要思考他们可以从事哪些职业和就业机会，理想情况下，他们能够在公司内部获得支持，继续提升技能。当然，这种支持最好是由公司、工会以及政府共同提供的。

So, that's one broad group. And of course, the other very important group would be the more middle-aged PMATs especially, professionals and so on, who are currently the challenge. I think, is that as long as they're in stable employment, things are fine. But actually because of the pace of business change disruption and so on, they do face some job uncertainty. And if something were to happen to the industry or role, then if they're out of their job, they actually may face a lot of difficulty pivoting, transitioning to a new job, new career and so on.

所以，这是一个广泛的群体。当然，另一个非常重要的群体是中年专业人士，尤其是专业人士，目前他们面临的挑战是，只要他们的工作稳定，一切都还好。但实际上，由于商业变革和变化的速度，他们确实会面临一些工作不确定性。如果他们所在的行业或职位发生变化，失去工作，他们可能会遇到很大的困难，在转行或寻找新工作的过程中面临挑战。

That's actually a really big challenge, I think. And there, I think, when we look at the opportunities out there, I absolutely agree that there are a lot of exciting group opportunities out there. New technological areas and so on. But I think there, we have to be a bit careful, I think, in terms of skilling or retraining for perhaps a particular job or a particular industry area, which is currently a sentence versus perhaps you might say general skills training, learning how to learn, for example.

我认为这确实是一个很大的挑战。而且，我认为当我们看到外面的机会时，我完全同意有很多让人兴奋的集体机会。比如新的技术领域等等。但是，在这方面，我认为我们需要稍微谨慎一些，特别是在针对某个特定工作或行业的技能培训或再培训，这可能是当前的一个限制，而不是更广泛的技能培训，比如学习如何学习。

And I think that's really important because we do want to avoid situations, I think, where workers end up in this strange cycle where they train for something, but because sometimes the pace of development can be very rapid, when they finish their training, then the industry is perhaps going a bit more on the downturn or maybe it's already absorbed all of the manpower already. And then, you know, they find themselves retraining again.

我认为这非常重要，因为我们确实想要避免一些情况，比如工人们接受了某项培训，但由于有时候发展的速度非常快，当他们完成培训时，该行业可能正开始走下坡路，或者已经吸收了所有的人力资源。结果，他们又得重新培训。

And I think actually we're seeing this to some extent in the tech sector over the last couple of years, where not talking with the PMET here, but talking about the younger, single-barians, we saw, for example, enrollment in our technology courses in our universities expand dramatically, and then the graduates, some of the graduates are now facing certain challenges in the job market, right? Of course, they're still well trained, highly skilled and so on, but it was not exactly the situation they taught they had four years ago, that's a challenge. So how do you balance this, you know, very specific job training versus general skills training?

我认为实际上在过去几年里，我们在科技领域已经在某种程度上看到了这种情况。我不是在谈论专业人士、经理、执行人员和技术人员（PMETs），而是指年轻的、单身的毕业生。例如，我们看到大学中科技课程的报名人数急剧增加。然而，现在一些毕业生在就业市场上遇到了一些挑战。当然，他们仍然受过良好的训练，技能也很高，但这与他们四年前想象的情况不太一样，这是一个挑战。那么，如何在非常具体的职业培训与通用技能培训之间取得平衡呢？

I think that's a challenge all of us actually have as well. Universities certainly, we're trying to figure out how do we strike the right balance between giving you contemporary skills right now versus helping you learn better yourself. And I think here for businesses, maybe for government, I would say one concern that's been brought up is workers may feel they don't have enough time in the course of their work and so on for self-directed learning.

我认为这是我们大家都面临的一个挑战。对于大学来说，我们当然在努力找到一个平衡点：既要教授你当下实用的技能，又要帮助你提升自主学习的能力。而对于企业，甚至政府而言，我认为一个被提到的担忧是：员工可能感觉在工作中没有足够的时间进行自主学习。

Of course, you know, they have to produce for the employer and so on, but I think it's worth asking, could there be more support or perhaps a more regularized system for having study time for employees and so on outside of, you know, just what the employer is directing them to study as well, or train? Ultimately, the good point, identifying the other group, which is the lower income, less skilled, and for that one, this budget does have something which is the work skills support scheme. So that would be helpful for them.

当然，你知道，他们需要为雇主生产成果等等，但我认为值得问一下，是否可以提供更多支持，或者建立一个更加制度化的系统，让员工在工作之外有时间学习，而不仅仅是按照雇主的指示学习或培训课程。最后，值得关注的重点是那些低收入和技能较低的群体，对于他们，这份预算确实提供了一些帮助，即工作技能支持计划。这对他们会很有帮助。

Can I quickly ask about what profs said about mandate? Well, he didn't say mandate like study time, but is this something that, you know, perhaps we could see in the workplace, what he said at the end about having, sure. I think that something MOM has to look at because it is a very valid point. You've got all these schemes and people may want to go for that, the questions whether the employer can release you. So that is something I think that where employees need to have the conversation with the employers and the employers also need to ask themselves, will it's their value from doing this?

我可以快速问一下教授关于“强制”的说法吗？其实，他并没有明确说是“强制”比如学习时间，而是他最后提到的内容，是否可能在工作场所看到呢？我觉得这是人力部需要考虑的问题，因为这确实是个很有道理的观点。现在有很多计划，人们可能希望参与，问题在于雇主是否能够放行。因此，我认为这需要员工和雇主之间进行对话，雇主也需要自问，这样做是否有价值。

Because if my employee goes for this cost and is going to come back and be able to add value, then it's an investment of time I should be willing to make, but you need good HR to be able to do that. I agree with that. And, you know, what the brings up is the perennial problem. So even though there are a lot of training schemes available and the heavily subsidized by the government, but take up is difficult because people just don't have the time to go for the training.

因为如果我的员工参加这个培训产生了成本，但在回来后能够增加价值，那么这就是我应该愿意投入的时间，但是你需要有优秀的人力资源才能做到这一点。我同意这一点。你知道，这就引出了一个长期存在的问题。即便有很多培训项目提供，且政府给予了大量补贴，但参与度依然很低，因为人们实在没有时间去参加培训。

But I think this is why, as Minister brings up, it's important for employers to buy into the idea of the training and why I mentioned that employer, less, and more people can be able to get the money. And that's why I mentioned that employer led or company led training is quite important because then the employer knows that this is the kind of training that will actually support me in my enterprise transformation journey.

但我认为这就是部长提到的，为什么让雇主认同培训理念的重要性所在。我提到这点是因为，通过这种方式，雇主更少，更多人可以获得资金。这也是我提到由雇主主导或公司主导培训非常重要的原因，因为这样一来，雇主就能清楚地知道这类培训将如何在企业转型过程中对他们提供实际支持。

And so I'm sending the workers. I'm consciously choosing to send the workers for the training in order to benefit my company over the medium to long term. So I think there are already some support mechanisms to support companies with developing workplace learning on the job training. So, yeah, we do hope that there can be more support for that effort because especially for SMEs, it can be quite challenging.

因此，我正在派遣员工。我是有意识地选择派遣员工去培训，以便在中长期内使我的公司受益。所以我认为已经有一些支持机制来帮助公司发展在职培训。因此，我们确实希望能有更多支持，尤其是对中小企业来说，这可能相当具有挑战性。

Yeah. Let's tend to support for families. Yeah. So this year, the focus, there's quite a bit of focus on larger families, right, large families. Minister, would you say that, what would you say to Singaporeans, you know, who say that more can be done for particular segments of the society? For instance, couples who are still thinking on the fence about whether or not I want to have a child, not have a child, and also for singles, you know. And can I have a show of hands here? Who is single? And the single? Yes. Almost all of us. Okay. So many of you are the ones that are out. Almost all of us. Who are you? Yes. You are. Yes. Then this is the question, you know, some of them, what would you say to these segments of people?

好的。我们应该着重于对家庭的支持。今年的重点是关注大家庭，对吧？部长，你会对新加坡人说什么呢？比如有些人觉得社会中某些群体可以得到更多的帮助。例如，那些还在犹豫是否要生孩子的夫妇，以及单身人士。那么现在举个手好吗？单身人士？是的，几乎我们所有人都是。好吧，很多你们有外出的机会或者活动。几乎所有人。那么你是谁呢？是的，就是你。那么，对于这些群体的人，你会怎么说呢？

Okay. Well, I would say that this budget has something for everyone. You just need to know where to find it. So, let me run through. Everyone starting with the children up to age 12, you get the life SG credits, right? And then for those above age 12 to 21, you've got the top up. So 500 for each child up to 12. And for those age 13 to 20, they also get $500 each in the Edisave account or the PSEA. Then when you're 21 and above, you also get your SG60, the 600. And for the seniors, they get extra. They get 800. So that's the everybody gets something. That's the first thing.

好的，我想说这个预算对每个人都有好处。你只需要知道在哪里找到它。那么，让我来解释一下。对于所有12岁以下的儿童，他们会获得“生活SG余额”，对吧？然后是12岁到21岁之间的人，他们会有补助。每个12岁以下的孩子可以领取500元。而且对于13岁到20岁的人，他们的医保储蓄账户或者是PSEA（计划储蓄账户）里也会有500元。接下来，当你21岁及以上时，你会收到SG60，也就是600元。对于老年人，他们的补贴更多，可以获得800元。所以每个人都有所得。以上就是首先要说的。

Then for the singles, although it's not classified as singles per se, I mean, the singles will get the SG60 as well as the CDC vouchers and so on if they have their own household. But under housing, housing is MND and HDB take up quite a large chunk of the budget for the MND budget. And remember last year we introduced the new classification framework. And under the new classification framework, singles can now buy the two-room BTOs across the island. Whereas prior to that, they would have been limited to the non-mature estates. So money in this budget is going to support the new classification framework, which will enable singles to have access to two rooms, BTOs all across the island.

对于单身人士，虽然严格来说不算是“单身补助”，但如果他们有自己的家庭，他们也可以领取SG60以及CDC优惠券等。至于住房方面，国家发展部（MND）和建屋发展局（HDB）在国家发展部的预算中占了相当大的一部分。记得去年我们推出了新的分类框架。在新的分类框架下，单身人士现在可以在全岛范围内购买两房式的BTO（预购组屋）。而在此之前，他们只能在非成熟区购买。所以，这次预算中的资金将支持新的分类框架，这将使单身人士能够在全岛任意地点购买两房式BTO。

Then MND also announced last year, but it will come and be really implemented through monies in this budget. The family care scheme, which is where family members who are applying for a flat either together or one member applying for a flat to be close to, let's say, child applying to be close to parent will get extra priority. So previously, and I used to see appeals for this, if the parents were in the central area, which was considered a mature estate, singles would not have been able to get priority because they had to apply in the non-mature for their flat. But now under the family care scheme, they can apply to get priority to live close to their parents, or they and the parents can apply together to have a place where they can be close to each other. So there is something, everyone, not to worry.

新加坡国防部（MND）去年宣布了一项政策，将在今年的预算中落实。这项政策称为“家庭关怀计划”，旨在为那些希望和家人一起申请住房，或是希望住得离家人更近的人提供优先权。例如，孩子申请住房以靠近父母，就可以获得额外优先权。之前，如果父母住在中心区域（被视为成熟社区），单身人士无法申请优先权，因为他们必须在非成熟社区申请住房。但现在有了这个家庭关怀计划，他们可以申请住得离父母更近，或者他们可以和父母一起申请，以便住得更靠近彼此。因此，不用担心，这个政策会帮助到有这类需求的人。

And seniors, of course, get extra, pretty much of everything. They get extra GST, they get extra Medicaid-safe, and of course they get extra of the SG60 vouchers. So I want to ask the large family schemes, whatever was given out yesterday, is the move to encourage people to have couples to have more children, right? You know, a total fertility rate is a bit dismal. And I guess this is not normally seen for those who are most things. This one is not one of the ones where we want to be near the top. So do you think that with the budget, yesterday's budget measures, you know, would this be a game changer to get couples moving?

当然，老年人会在各个方面获得额外的福利。他们可以得到额外的商品及服务税（GST）补贴，额外的医疗保障，当然还有额外的SG60代金券。那么，我想问一下关于大家庭的补贴措施，昨天宣布的那些福利是否意在鼓励夫妇多生孩子呢？我们总的生育率有些低迷，而通常来说，这并不是我们希望高居榜首的指标之一。所以，您认为昨天的预算措施是否能成为改变游戏规则的因素，从而促使夫妇多生孩子呢？

Because in the last time you hear, we talked about shared parents who leave. Now this is a, I think this is a big move because to have three children is a lot. So do you think this will be a game changer in some sense? I'm going to ask, you know, prof, maybe you have a tick line? Yeah, so I'd say in terms of fertility decisions, right? There are really kind of a couple of different stages that you try to think about policy rights, right, to improve the needle. So one is why do people get married or don't get married, right?

因为上次我们聊天时谈到了共同离开的父母。现在，我认为这个举动很大，因为抚养三个孩子是个不小的负担。那么，你觉得这在某种程度上会改变游戏规则吗？我想请教授谈谈你的看法。在生育决策方面，有几个不同的阶段可以通过政策来优化。其中之一就是为什么人们会选择结婚或者不结婚。

And I think in the Singapore context, I think a lot of people cite issues such as not having the time to go out and meet people and so on. Especially if they're beyond a school social network. There are also questions about things like whether people can find housing or not. Although on that regard, I think government has done a lot actually in the last couple of years to basically get over the very unfortunate, you know, hurdle that we had during COVID of not being able to complete the BTOs in time due to all of the logistics issues and so on. So now that that's settled, you know, hopefully people who are seeing somebody have a bit more confidence, I think, to actually get married.

我认为，在新加坡的背景下，很多人提到的问题是没有时间外出和认识新朋友，尤其是那些已经超出了学校社交网络的人。此外，还有关于是否能找到住房的问题。不过，在这方面，我认为政府在过去几年确实做了很多努力，主要是为了克服疫情期间由于物流问题导致的组屋（BTO）无法按时完工的不幸障碍。现在这些问题已经解决，希望那些正在约会的人能够更有信心踏入婚姻。

I would also say that an unexpected thing in this budget, you know, is this credit for cultural activities in Singapore, right? Maybe you can take advantage of that going to the day. I was a government think for your day. It was the subtext, like, it was called cultural past. It wasn't intended, but it's a great idea. Culture past brackets dating past, right? If you prefer, I think you guys said second.

我想说，这个预算中一个意想不到的事情就是给予文化活动的补贴，对吧？也许你可以利用这点去度过一天。我曾是个政府项目，为你的日子准备的。虽然它被称为文化通行证，但实际上暗含的意思是，这是一个很棒的主意。文化通行证，也可以当作约会通行证，对吧？如果你愿意的话，我想你们说过“第二”。

Oh, yes, yes, yes. So once we take care of the hurdle of people, you know, getting married, then it's like how many kids and do we have kids or not? And how many kids? And I think there, I agree that there is support in this budget as an, you know, previous budget for the cost of raising children and so on.

哦，是的，是的，是的。那么一旦我们解决了像人们结婚这样的障碍，接下来就是关于孩子的问题，比如是否要孩子，以及要几个孩子。我认为在这方面，这个预算确实提供了一些支持，就像之前的预算一样，帮助解决养育孩子的费用。

But we also have to, I think, face the fact that in Singapore a lot of the cost of raising children, I think it comes ultimately for a lot of parents in Singapore from their feeling that they need to invest a certain very large amount in children in order for their children to be competitive. And I think that is something that is not fixed with just the budget alone.

但是，我认为我们也必须面对这样一个事实：在新加坡，养育孩子的许多成本最终源于父母们的观念。他们觉得必须对孩子进行大量投资，才能让孩子具有竞争力。而且我认为，仅靠预算是无法解决这个问题的。

So, actually here I would, you know, kind of refer people to a very interesting interview that Minister Chan gave very recently on tuition culture in Singapore, you know, M O E and things like that, where I think maybe what we need to do is reflect a bit on what can we do, you know, so a couple of fronts, right? So, I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think that's a very interesting question. I think M O E has put in a lot of reforms in disregard recently, and I'm not sure that that has come through the parents yet, but I hope it will.

所以，其实在这里，我想把大家的注意力引向陈部长最近关于新加坡补习文化的一个非常有趣的采访。采访中涉及到教育部（MOE）以及相关的话题，我认为我们需要反思一下，可以在几个方面做些什么。这是一个很有趣的问题，教育部最近在这方面进行了很多改革，我不确定家长们是否意识到了这些变化，但我希望他们会意识到。

The other part of it, of course, would be unfortunately, I think some of the market dynamics where you see private, you know, providers of enrichment and so on, perhaps, you know, encouraging a mindset of very high competitiveness and so on and don't lose out and so on. I think that's probably feeding, for at least for some parents, this perception that, yeah, you know, if I cannot invest at least this huge amount, it's not worth having a child write or something. So, yeah, you cannot subsidize or grant your way out of that problem. I think it has to be kind of like perhaps the societal mindset shift supported with the appropriate changes in the education system.

当然，另一部分原因不幸在于，目前的一些市场动态。比如一些民间教育机构可能会鼓励一种高度竞争的心态，强调不要输在起跑线上等等。我认为这导致了一些家长觉得如果不投入大量资金，就不值得让孩子接受教育。所以，仅靠补贴或资助无法解决这一问题。我认为需要通过改变社会观念，并配合教育系统的相应调整来解决。

Well, no, that's very correct. The issue of low TFR and not marrying and not having children is a complex one, and it's not particular to us. In fact, we had a debate on this in Parliament at the last sitting, but essentially it boils down to a few factors. Just lifestyle and life aspirations, millennials and younger ones, I think. I'm not sure whether it's reversing, because I remember reading an article that, you know, in some places there might be a reversal, but right now it's like, I want to focus on career, or I mean, children might tie me down, I won't be able to travel, I won't be able to do what I want, and it's just too stressful.

好吧，不，这非常正确。低生育率、不结婚和不生孩子的问题是一个复杂的问题，并不只发生在我们这里。事实上，我们在上一次的议会会议上对此进行了辩论，但主要可以归结为几个因素。可能是生活方式和生活目标的问题，尤其是千禧一代和更年轻的人。我不确定这种趋势是否会逆转，因为我记得曾读到一篇文章，说在某些地方可能有逆转的现象，但目前，人们更想专注于职业，或者觉得有了孩子可能会束缚自己，无法旅行，无法做自己想做的事情，而且压力太大了。

So, that that's one thing, the aspiration bucket. Then the next category would be costs. They're worried about costs. Then the other category would be what life balance. Then another category would be the stress, what Walter talked about, the stress as the children go through the school system. So, if you look at it, you'll see that in the last two or three years, we have systematically been putting in place things to address this, so that it's sort of the overall ecosystem. First, when they're going, okay, the dating part, I'm not sure what we can do, right? I mean, that's pretty much a personal thing.

那么，这就是一个方面，所谓的理想愿景。接下来一个类别是成本，他们对成本感到担忧。然后另一个类别是生活平衡。还有一个类别是压力，正如沃尔特提到的，当孩子们通过学校系统时会产生的压力。所以，如果你看看这一点，你会发现，在过去两三年中，我们已经系统地在建立一些措施来应对这些问题，以便形成一个整体的生态系统。首先，在他们即将开始的时候，好吧，对于恋爱这部分，我不太确定我们能做些什么。毕竟，这基本上是个人的事情。

But assuming that people want to get married, the first thing to do is make sure that the housing part is settled. And we did have the housing crunch during COVID, but actually we've caught up with that. We've caught up with the delays. And between 21 to this year, building over 100,000 BTO flats, and in fact surpassed our target, we're going to put in more BTO flats and more of the shorter waiting time flats. And I think recently we had just one of the largest sailor balance flats exercises. So I think housing is on track. It'll take a little bit more time for it to flow through, but they need a house before they can have a, you know, start the family.

假设大家都想结婚，首先要确保住房问题解决。在新冠疫情期间，我们确实面临了住房紧张的情况，但实际上我们已经赶上了进度，解决了延迟问题。从2021年到今年，我们已经建造了超过10万个 BTO 公寓，甚至超额完成了目标。我们计划增加更多的 BTO 公寓和更多等待时间较短的单位。最近我们还进行了最大规模的一次售楼余屋活动，所以我认为住房问题已经走上正轨。虽然需要一些时间让这些计划完全实施，但在开始家庭生活之前，他们需要有一个住处。

Then on the cost part, we enhanced the baby bonus, we enhanced the CDA, we also, with the large family scheme, address those who want to have more children. Then on the work-life balance part, the extra paternity leave, two weeks, now made mandatory, but the big move was the ten weeks of shed parental leave. And at the same time, supplementing that with the flexible work arrangements, tripartite guidelines.

在成本方面，我们增加了育儿津贴，提升了儿童发展账户（CDA），通过大家庭计划帮助那些想要更多孩子的家庭。在工作与生活平衡方面，我们增加了额外的陪产假，现在两周的陪产假成为强制性规定，但更大的变化是推出了十周的共享育儿假。同时，我们还通过三方指导方针补充了灵活的工作安排。

Then education stress, as Walter says, Min-chan talked about that. And that one, it's, because it's a mindset thing, it's very hard to, you know, to tell parents, don't stress so much, but perhaps if parents just pause and have a look at all the steps we've taken, you'll see that what we're actually trying to do is mixing up our family friendly so that if you want to have children, you can. So on the part of the parents, we hope that, you know, they'll be a bit gentle on themselves. Don't stress so much, because we're doing our best to make sure that, you know, it's more conducive to have families.

关于教育压力，正如沃尔特所说，敏灿谈到了这一点。这主要是因为观念上的问题，因此很难去告诉家长们不要过于紧张。但是，也许如果家长们能停下来看看我们所采取的所有步骤，你们就会发现，我们实际上是在努力创造一个更适合家庭的环境，以便你们想要生养孩子时可以做到。因此，我们希望家长们能对自己宽容一些，不要太过紧张。因为我们正在尽力确保一个更适合养育家庭的环境。

I agree with Min that that's also an important factor to consider in terms of, because I think for a lot of parents, they have caregiving responsibilities, and they want to be able to balance that with their careers. So being able to support them in terms of providing more flexible work arrangements is an important part. But I think also we have to balance that with the business considerations. So for a lot of businesses, especially small businesses, they may not have, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the chief HR officer, he's also the chief marketing officer. He's doing everything. So even being able to put in place a system to support flexible work arrangements is challenging.

我同意敏的观点，这确实是一个需要考虑的重要因素。因为对很多父母来说，他们承担着照顾家庭的责任，同时也希望能够平衡事业与家庭。因此，提供更灵活的工作安排来支持他们是非常重要的。然而，我认为我们也必须考虑到企业的需求。对于很多企业，特别是小企业，即便是高级人力资源官员也可能身兼多职，比如同时负责市场营销等。所以，建立一个支持灵活工作安排的系统是具有挑战性的。

So how can we support some of those small businesses to be able to do some of these things? I think there have been ideas banded around maybe providing certain types of shared HR services to support some of these small businesses so that they can implement some of these things. I think that will go some way to also addressing this issue of work life balance, which I think also indirectly also affects this. That's something that maybe should be for future budgets to think about because it's really about whether or not you have a good HR, but they're not you have enough buffer and the ability to draw on manpower to help tie you over for that particular period.

那么，我们如何支持一些小企业来实现这些目标呢？我认为已经有建议提出，比如提供某些类型的共享人力资源服务，以支持这些小企业，这样他们就可以实施一些措施。我认为这也会在一定程度上解决工作与生活平衡的问题，而这也间接地影响到这个问题。这可能是未来的预算需要考虑的事情，因为这实际上涉及到你是否拥有好的HR资源，以及是否有足够的空间和动员人力的能力来帮助你度过那个特定时期。

That's right. Yeah. Sorry. I had a very big question that Claire was like, you need to ask. That's right. Yeah, I forgot. Yeah, I forgot. That's a special gift. Actually, maybe it's on the cards. So, okay. Minister, you've been teasing it a lot. Yes. Are you going to tell me what it is? I can't tell you exactly what goes into it. Can you actually, actually, I just came from doing a video on it, packing all of the various items. But I'll say this much.

没错。是的，抱歉。我本来有一个特别重要的问题要问的，Claire 还特意提醒我要记得问，就对，就是这样。但是我忘了。其实这算是一种特殊的才能，或许真的会有那么一天。好的，部长，您一直在说这个事。是的。您会告诉我那到底是什么吗？我不能确切告诉你里面的内容。实际上，我刚刚才拍了一个关于各个项目包装的视频。不过，我可以透露一点。

When we were putting together the brainstorming for what should go into the baby gift, the one constant piece of feedback we got from all the parents was they wanted it to be practical. So, there'll be lots of practical items. We'll also be supporting Singapore brands. And it should be something that's easy to carry, easy to use. And I think at least one or two items in there should be something that would last some time as something that parents can remember and the child can look back and say, oh, I was an SG60 baby.

当我们在为宝宝礼物进行头脑风暴时，所有的父母都一致建议，礼物要实用。因此，我们会准备很多实用的物品。我们还会支持新加坡品牌。这个礼物应该容易携带和使用。我认为其中至少有一两样物品应该是能长时间使用的，以便让父母记住，也让孩子将来可以回忆说：“哦，我是一个SG60宝宝。”

Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah. I kind of get an idea of what it is. We'll leave the big review for this. It's not just happening in March. The reveal as to what goes into the items I will deal with at the Committee of Supply. So very soon. I can't doubt that. Okay. We'll look out for it.

哦，那真是太贴心了。是的，我大概明白那是什么。我们会把详细的讨论留在这次会议上。这件事不仅仅是在三月才会发生。我会在供应委员会上处理涉及这些项目的内容。这很快就会到来。我对此毫不怀疑。好吧，我们会期待的。

Okay. So let's talk about where we go from here. I mean, spending is obviously expected to rise in the coming years, especially against the backdrop of Singapore being a super aging society. And, you know, we have been told by Prime Minister that the revenue from corporate income tax is not quite guaranteed, right? Even though this year, not this year, 2024 was really good.

好的，那我们来谈谈接下来该怎么做。未来几年，支出显然会增加，特别是在新加坡进入超级老龄化社会的背景下。而且，我们已经从总理那里得知，公司所得税的收入并不完全有保障，对吧？尽管2024年的收入确实表现良好。

That said, we still have two components, two top fixtures. One is personal income tax and the other one is goods and services tax. Goods and services tax would be the second largest contributor followed by personal income tax. So I'm just trying to get a sense of, you know, going forward. What is our plan to sustain this rising spending more taxes? You actually need to have different sources and not rely just on one.

尽管如此，我们仍然有两个重要的组成部分，即个人所得税和商品及服务税。商品及服务税是第二大贡献者，仅次于个人所得税。所以，我只是想了解一下，未来我们的计划是什么，以维持这种不断增加的支出。你实际上需要有不同的税收来源，而不是仅仅依赖其中一个。

Because if you rely just on one, then if anything happens, then you're stuck, right? So you'll see that our strategy is to have a variety of sources. It used to be the largest, but not for this year, was the NIRC, the net income returns contribution. So that's the income on our reserves. That's one chunk. Then you have corporate income tax, which this year did particularly well.

因为如果你仅仅依赖一个来源，一旦发生任何问题，就会陷入困境，对吧？所以你会看到，我们的策略是拥有多种来源。以前最大的部分是NIRC，即净收入回报贡献。但今年不是。那是我们储备的收入，这是其中一部分。然后是公司所得税，今年这一项表现特别好。

Then you have personal income tax and you have GST. And then you have all the other miscellaneous things, right? So you've got a basket of revenue streams. And you want to make sure that you're not too overly reliant on any single one. And the other thing that we do, and also can explain this better than myself really, is a simple government works very, very hard to make sure that we don't swing between feast and famine.

然后你有个人所得税，还有消费税。除此之外，还有其他各种各样的杂项税收，对吧？所以你有一篮子收入来源。你需要确保不过于依赖其中的任何一个来源。我们还做的另一件事，简单来说，政府非常努力地确保我们的经济不会出现大起大落的情况。

Because there may be some years that you do extremely well on taxes, and the next year you don't. But you can't budget like that. You can't budget just going on what actually is coming your way. You have to try and project, which was the thinking behind GST. When we started thinking about it, which was back in 2018, we knew that at 2030, with our population aging, and 2030, one in four is going to be age 65 and above, there's going to be a lot of health care that's needed there.

因为有些年你可能在税收上表现非常好，而第二年却不一定如此。但是你不能按照这种方式来做预算。你不能只根据实际收入来制定预算，你必须尝试进行预测，这就是推行消费税（GST）的想法背后的原因。我们在2018年开始考虑这个问题时就知道，到2030年，随着人口老龄化，每四个人中就有一个将达到65岁及以上，那时会需要大量的医疗服务。

So you have to start early. And when you're looking at it from 2018, 2019, you have no guarantee as to what you're going to get in 2030, unless you put in place something which is a sustainable, sustainable revenue, and that was GST. Then of course, if you have other things that come along the way that boost up your revenue, then it gives you the opportunity, as we have in this year, to set aside monies for future needs, like our coastal resilience, like future energy, and so on. So we try very hard to smooth it out so that we don't have this sort of wild swings. I've explained it in sort of lay language, but also it will give you all the technical details for that.

因此，你必须尽早开始。当你从2018年、2019年展望时，如果没有建立一个可持续的收入机制，比如商品和服务税（GST），你无法保证在2030年会获得什么。当然，如果在这个过程中有其他因素增加了你的收入，就像我们在今年所经历的那样，你就有机会为未来的需求预留资金，比如沿海防护、未来能源等。因此，我们非常努力地平衡收支，避免出现大起大落的情况。我已经用通俗的语言解释了，但也可以为你提供所有的技术细节。

So I don't think I'll go into technical so much, but I want to start by saying that I think what Minister actually kicked off the entire discussion with, which is that the budget also is a very important role to play in laying the groundwork for our economy to be successful. That's really the most important thing, because if we cannot grow the economy, if we don't ensure that Singapore is a choice destination, not just for Singaporeans, of course, to live and work in play, but also for investors to come in, also for high school migrants to come in, and so on, and contribute to Singapore, if we can't ensure that this happens, we don't have the tax base, and we don't have the tax base, we cannot provide for Singaporeans.

所以，我不打算过多涉及技术细节，但我想先说一下，部长开启整个讨论时提到的一点非常重要，那就是预算在为我们的经济成功奠定基础方面同样扮演着重要角色。这是最关键的，因为如果我们的经济无法增长，如果我们不能确保新加坡成为一个理想的目的地，不仅是让新加坡人生活、工作和娱乐的地方，同时也吸引投资者、高技术移民等来到这里，为新加坡做贡献，如果我们不能确保这些发生，我们就没有足够的税收基础，而没有税收基础，我们就无法为新加坡人提供保障。

So I think that's really important to make sure that we continue to be a really, really choice destination for investment capital, people, anything, you know, Singapore has to be up there at the top. But that being said, I think Minister is absolutely right, that it's all about trying to plan ahead and making sure that when we do have predictable, long-run expenditures that we're going to need to provide for, we do have to provide for the baby boom generation of Singaporeans in the next couple of decades, then we have to match that with reliable sources of revenue as well.

我认为，确保新加坡始终是投资资本、人才等优先选择的目的地至关重要，新加坡必须排在最前列。不过，部长的观点也非常正确，我们需要提前规划，确保我们能面对未来可预见的长期开支。尤其是未来几十年要为新加坡的婴儿潮一代做好准备，因此我们也需要有可靠的收入来源来匹配这些支出。

So I think in that regard, what we've seen over the last couple of decades is that our consumption taxes have gradually gone up. They are actually still below, I would say, maybe OECD or developed country norms, but there might be room to adjust that a bit more, it's a political decision, of course. I would also say that I think in terms of assets as well, there is a question about whether we could do more with raising revenue from assets. Now, I know, you know, in the last couple of years, there were some revisions in property tax rates. That didn't go down well, I think, necessarily, because it ran right up against, you know, this COVID-related boom in property values, and a lot of people found themselves paying more than they thought they would or should, right?

所以，我认为在这方面，我们过去几十年看到的是我们的消费税逐渐上升。虽然它们实际上仍低于经合组织或发达国家的标准，但可能还有一些调整空间，这当然是一个政治决定。另外，我觉得就资产而言，也有关于我们是否可以从资产中筹集更多收入的问题。我知道，过去几年，房产税率有所调整。但我认为，这并不一定受欢迎，因为当时正值受疫情影响的地产价值增长潮，很多人发现自己支付的税款比预期的更多。

But I think that's another area to look at. It's more about, I think, making sure that our system, tax system, continues to be progressive so that Singaporeans who have done well by the system, benefited by it, perhaps they give back a bit more, right? And then Singaporeans who still need a bit of help to actually catch up and so on, they get more help, so I think that's very important. I think also, and broader perspective, besides, you know, matching the revenue and expenditure, this thing about avoiding fees and famine is absolutely right, I think, as well, which is why we do have a very robust reserves management framework to ensure, you know, that we do have that rainy day fund, so that if we had a famine period and surpluses in that term of government and not enough, we can tap on that as we did during COVID.

我认为这是需要关注的另一个领域。更重要的是确保我们的税收体系继续保持累进性。这样一来，那些通过这个系统取得成功并从中受益的新加坡人，可以回馈更多一些。而那些仍然需要帮助以跟上发展的新加坡人，则能获得更多的支持，我认为这非常重要。同时，从更广泛的角度来看，除了收入和支出的匹配之外，避免经济大起大落也是绝对正确的。为此，我们有一个非常健全的储备管理框架，以确保我们的“雨天基金”在需要时可用，比如在疫情期间，我们就动用了这些储备来渡过难关。

And I think it's also very important that when we do have those surpluses occurring from time to time, you know, instead of thinking, do I give this back immediately to the public, which, of course, you could do, but another thing you can do instead is think, okay, is there something I need to set aside the money for, create an endowment fund, top up fund, whatever it is, and I think government has been doing a lot of that over the decades, and that, in turn, provides a very stable stream of, you know, resources, right, revenue and so on, to fund these needs in the future.

我认为，当我们不时出现盈余时，也很重要的一点是，我们不应立即想到要将这笔钱返还给公众。当然，这样做是可以的，但我们也可以考虑，是否需要预留这笔钱，用来设立一个基金、补充资金等。我认为政府在过去几十年中一直在这么做。这反过来为未来的需求提供了一个非常稳定的资源和收入来源。

Yeah, no, I mean, I'll just echo what the said about the importance of economic growth as that anchor for a secure revenue base over the longer term. And, you know, any economies will tell you that economic growth is a function of two things. One is labor force growth and the other's productivity, and we were talking quite a bit about fertility rate and out shrinking labor force, so quite apart from the fact that we have a low fertility rate, we also have an aging population, so, trying to think about how we can maximize the use of our local labor force is quite critical, and I think the budget does address, has quite a number of measures that try to address this, but also we have to double down on productivity and try to see how we can transform the economy to stay ahead.

是的，我的意思是，我只是想重复一下已经提到的关于经济增长的重要性，因为经济增长是长期安全收入基础的支柱。你知道，任何经济学家都会告诉你，经济增长取决于两大要素：一个是劳动人口的增长，另一个是生产力。我们讨论了很多关于生育率和劳动人口减少的问题，除了生育率低之外，我们还面临人口老龄化的问题。所以，如何最大化利用本地劳动力是非常关键的。我认为，预算中确实有很多措施在尝试解决这个问题，但我们也必须加倍努力提高生产力，努力寻找方法转型经济以保持领先。

I think we also have to bear in mind that Singapore is a small economy and we have a lot of constraints. We have constraints with regards to land, we have constraints with regards to labor, what the budget talks about in terms of energy also highlights how over time we also have to address constraints with regards to energy, and whether we are able to produce enough energy to be able to meet our economic needs. And not just any energy, but clean energy. And clean energy as well, so carbon is also a constraint that we also have to think about.

我认为我们也要记住，新加坡是一个小型经济体，我们面临很多限制。首先是土地限制，其次是劳动力的限制。预算中提到的能源问题也强调了我们需要在一定时间内解决的能源限制，即我们是否能生产足够的能源来满足经济需求。不仅仅是能源，而是清洁能源。因此，碳排放也是我们必须考虑的限制因素。

So, we have to think about how as an economy we can overcome some of these constraints, and how we can continue to create value, a value premium that justifies people wanting to continue to invest in Singapore, justifies businesses wanting to start new businesses, create new businesses in Singapore. And we have to bear in mind that our economic dynamism is also a function of what's happening in terms of our competitors. So, it's not just a static thing. We have to run the race and we have to run it faster than others around us. Many of them are catching up.

因此，我们需要思考作为一个经济体，如何克服这些限制，继续创造价值，以及确保这种价值足以吸引人们继续在新加坡投资，吸引企业在新加坡创办和发展新业务。同时，我们也必须意识到，我们的经济活力还取决于竞争对手的发展情况。因此，这不是一个静止不变的事情。我们必须参与竞争，并且需要跑得比周围其他人更快，因为许多竞争对手正在迎头赶上。

And so we also have to bear that in mind and continue to think of new ways in which we can create value for Singapore and Sasti in that value over the long term. So, that's also why PM ended his budget speech on a different note, which was unity, because with all these different things that we have to do, the only way in which we can do it is if we are team Singapore, sort of united and pulling along in the same direction.

因此，我们也需要铭记在心，并不断思考如何为新加坡和Sasti创造长期价值。这也是为什么总理在预算演讲的结尾强调团结，因为面对各种需要完成的任务，唯一的实现方式就是成为一个"新加坡团队"，团结一致，朝着同一个方向前进。

So, budgets about that as well. Okay, so before we end, because I have you, Minister, on the couch, commentators and political analysts have called this an election year budget for all the goodies that come out. What do you say to that? I would say that it's a budget for everybody. Wherever we can, if there is money that is available, we make sure that it is channeled for the right strategic direction. But if there's something that's extra, we should share it.

好的，所以预算也是关于这些的。那么，在结束之前，因为我有请部长您来谈这个问题，评论员和政治分析家们称这是一份选举年预算，因为里面有很多好处。您对此有什么看法呢？我会说这是为所有人制定的预算。在任何可能的地方，我们都会确保可用的资金被引导到正确的战略方向上。但如果有什么多余的，我们也应该分享。

And that's the essence of what being Singaporean is about. We're all in this together. So, I mean, there may be some years when things don't go as well, and we saw that during the COVID years, we had the reserves to draw on. This year, things, you know, is better in terms of the revenues, then we share it. And that has to be our approach. Thank you very much for being on the show and sharing your thoughts, and thank you for calling us in the UK.

这就是新加坡人精神的精髓。我们都在一起。因此，我的意思是，有些年份可能情况不太理想，比如在新冠疫情年，我们就动用了储备。今年，收入情况更好一些，那我们就分享。这必须是我们的做法。非常感谢您参加这个节目并分享您的想法，也感谢您在英国打来电话。

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