Top Japan SaaS VC on digital transformation with AI, 4 key metrics to benchmark for SaaS companies

And I think the companies that will do well are companies or SaaS companies that are a system of record that have enough data within their products set, either from a product standpoint from a user or from a user standpoint, and utilize that data and make the experience better. So those are the companies that's going to do well. The companies that might struggle or even become obsolete are ones that don't have data. It's not a system of record, maybe a system of engagement, but I think those will be challenging, right?

我认为那些会做得很好的公司是那些拥有记录系统（system of record）的公司或SaaS公司。这些公司在他们的产品中拥有足够的数据，无论是从产品角度还是用户角度，能够利用这些数据提升用户体验。因此这些公司会表现出色。而那些可能会面临困难甚至淘汰的公司是那些没有数据的公司。它们可能是一个互动系统（system of engagement），但我认为这些公司会面临挑战。

Hi folks, welcome back to another episode of On Call Within Signia, where you go on call with leaders innovating the future of emerging markets around the world. And for this episode, we actually have a very special guest. It's our first guest from Japan. In recent years, we've been in Singapore, not just for national investments, but also since many of our companies have been expanding to that market. So really an important time to actually learn more about that market and we have no one better than one of the thought leaders in that market. And I'll have our co-host, England, introduce him. It's a pleasure today with a special treat. Mr. Afarasan, King Jia Sadar, who has become a good friend and also a co-investor and a good partner for us in Japan. He's a veteran in the venture capital space in Japan. And I would say definitely one of the top venture capitalists. I learned a lot from him and I think he can share a lot on the landscape in Japan. And I don't want to keep these things off with your decades of experience investing and building software companies across Japan and US. I love for you to introduce yourself and say a little bit about background and also share a little bit about one or two pivotal moments in your career as you develop as a partner, a great partner for Japanese entrepreneurs. Yeah, sure. I appreciate it. Just a quick background about myself. I started my career at a company called the Toto-Chu Corporation. It's one of the biggest trading companies here in Japan. Recently Warren Buffett, I think invested a lot, so there's been a lot of press around trading companies. And within that company, I was doing investments into US companies and helping them come to Japan. That was my primary goal. And then I was also seconded to a subsidiary called the Toto-Chu Technology Ventures, which is a corporate VCR that does mainly early stage investments in Japan. And that's when I fell in love with investing and I met a company called Merkari, which became the biggest tech IPO in Japan history. And I realized great companies that are founded with great products. Period, right? If it's not a great product, you have a great founder with a great background. It doesn't really mean anything. So product was what really realized that great companies are built. And then I went on to Salesforce to begin the Japan head. It was probably early days of SaaS in Japan 2015. Some people in Japan were calling it ASP, not SaaS. It means the same thing, but it was called differently. And I was like tweeting all day about SaaS. And I think the timing was right. Many companies were founded around 2012 and 2015, went on to become billion dollar companies. And those were company names of Samsung, Free, Vision, and in that I'm sure you've met some of these founders. And back then, these early toch I was using internal software built by a system innovator in Japan of the likes of Fujitsu and I think Hitachi. And I don't want to be sounding a little bit rude, but it wasn't an easy software to actually use. Expense management was a nightmare. I had to log in with a VPN sometimes when I was at the office. Even if you clicked on the forgot password link, you didn't get an automatic email reply. It would have to be overnight or the next day or something. So all around, it was a bad experience using enterprise software. Starting from like 2015-ish, there was a lot of modern software, SaaS software, and the business model came towards customers, right? Because if the customers were angry at the user interface or user experience, they would just cut it off and turn it to another SaaS offering, right?

大家好，欢迎回到“Signia热线”节目。在这里，我们与全球新兴市场的领导者们一起探讨未来的创新。在本期节目中，我们有一位特别嘉宾，来自日本。近年来，我们不仅在新加坡进行了国家级投资，因为许多公司的业务都在向该市场扩展。所以现在是了解该市场的关键时刻，今天的嘉宾正是该市场的思想领袖之一。下面让我来请出我们的联合主持人英格兰来介绍他。 今天很高兴为大家带来一份特别的惊喜。这位特别嘉宾是King Jia Sadar，非常荣幸他已经成为我们的好朋友、合作者以及在日本的重要合伙人。他在日本的风险投资领域有着丰富的经验，绝对可以说是顶级的风险投资家之一。我从他身上学到了很多，我相信他能在今天和大家分享很多关于日本市场的洞见。下面就请King Jia Sadar自我介绍一下，并分享他在投资和构建日本及美国软件公司方面的一些关键时刻。 非常感谢这次机会。简单介绍一下我自己吧，我的职业生涯始于一家公司——Toto-Chu公司，这是日本最大的贸易公司之一。最近沃伦·巴菲特投资了大量资金在这家公司，所以这段时间有很多关于它的报道。在Toto-Chu公司期间，我的主要任务是对美国公司的投资，并帮助他们进入日本市场。随后，我被调配到它的一个子公司——Toto-Chu Technology Ventures，这是一家主要进行早期投资的企业风投公司。在那里，我爱上了投资，并遇到了迈阿库瑞（Mercari）公司，这家公司后来成为日本历史上最大的科技IPO公司。 我意识到伟大的公司是由伟大的产品所建立的。如果没有好的产品，即使创始人再优秀也没有意义。所以，产品是关键。我随后加入了Salesforce，担任日本区主管。当时正值SaaS（软件即服务）在日本的初期阶段，大约在2015年。这段时间，我不断地在社交媒体上推特关于SaaS的内容，正值很多公司在2012年至2015年间成立，后来成为了亿美元的公司，比如Samsung、Free、Vision等。我相信你们也曾遇到过这些创始人。 当时，公司内部使用的是由Fujitsu和Hitachi等日本系统创新者开发的软件，但这些软件的使用体验并不好。管理费用报销真是个噩梦，有时在办公室里还得靠VPN登录，点击“忘记密码”链接后，也不会立刻收到重置邮件，通常得隔夜才能收到邮件。不夸张地说，使用企业软件的体验非常差。从2015年左右开始，更多现代SaaS软件出现了，它们更注重客户体验。如果客户对用户界面或用户体验感到不满，他们可以切换到其他SaaS服务。

As self-worth ventures, I learned the term because self-worth is the biggest SaaS company in the world. And I was part of a small team, but grew to probably about 20 people globally. I wanted to also go back to the time where you thought about starting one capital, which is now developing the world of preeminent new-ish and best-in-class, Japan-focused SaaS funds. Actually globally, I think globally, probably want to talk SaaS funds as well. So I wanted to go back and see what was the thinking behind starting the firm. And back ground from Hitachi and Salesforce ventures.

在自我价值事业中，我学到了这个术语，因为自我价值是世界上最大的SaaS公司。我当时是一个小团队的一员，但后来团队逐渐发展到大概20个人，遍布全球。我也想回到你开始思考创办One Capital的那段时间，现在One Capital已经发展成为全球顶尖的、以日本为中心的SaaS基金公司。其实在全球范围内，SaaS基金也非常重要。所以我想回顾一下创办这家公司的初衷，以及你在日立和Salesforce Ventures的背景。

Several things, one from the market perspective. And SaaS penetration rate back at 2015 was probably less than 1%, but it was growing pretty fast. And even today, solar only accounts for about 4% of the enterprise I'd spend within Japan. So there's a lot of room to grow. That's one. The second part is that I was growing older. I was in my early 40s, and the founders that I backed back at self-worth, they were like, rast 206, macroi. One who just started growing your own fund. You've been with the corporate for over a decade. Why don't you start your own stuff? So I got a nudge from that. And thirdly, several experiences at SaaS force ventures was a big lesson for me in the sense that it was the corporate VC and an amazing one. But during that time, I had some issues doing follow-ons, even for the companies that was really performing and winning, strategic investment.

有几件事情，首先从市场的角度来看。2015年时SaaS的普及率可能不到1%，但它增长得非常快。即使是今天，太阳能在企业支出中在日本只占大约4%。所以还有很大的增长空间。这是一点。第二点是，我年纪渐长，当时刚过四十岁。我支持的一些创始人比如在自我价值的时候，他们像rast 206，macroi之类的创始人，问我："你为什么不开始自己的基金呢？你在公司里待了十多年，为什么不创办自己的东西呢？" 这给了我一些启示。第三，在SaaS force ventures的几次经历对我来说是一次大课，虽然它是一个很棒的企业风险投资公司，但在那期间，即便是对一些表现和战略性投资很好的公司，我在做后续投资时也遇到了一些问题。

And when you strike the partnership initially with the initial check, you didn't really have to do a second fund check for an investment to solidify the partnership. We were trying to add more companies to the portfolio base and volumes were a little bit difficult. And I wasn't really being totally supportive for the entrepreneur, right? Because if the companies were performing existing companies, investors would just follow on, right? And I wasn't able to do that. That was also a big moment for me. And with that, big market, emerging market, I had entrepreneurs that was like, we'll back you with your first fund. And thirdly, I want to be a true partner for my entrepreneurs and make my own decisions and make my own risks. And that's how I formed one capital. That's great.

当你最初与合作伙伴建立关系时，拿到第一笔支票后，实际上并不需要再进行第二轮投资来巩固合作关系。我们试图在投资组合中增加更多公司，但数量有些困难。而且我并没有真正给予创业者足够的支持，对吧？因为如果已有公司的表现很好，投资者通常会继续投资，但我当时无法做到这一点。这对我来说也是一个重要的时刻。然后在这个大市场和新兴市场上，有些创业者表示会支持我的第一只基金。第三，我想成为我创业者的真正合作伙伴，自己做决策，承担风险。就是这样，我创建了一资本公司。很好。

And tell us a little bit about, I thought one of the very interesting things about what capital was the digital transformation initiative. Can you tell a little bit more about this? Yeah. So our mission is to transform Japan and make it faster. And in order to do this, I think using the fund vehicle would be ineffective methods, right? And we have two lures, anchor LPs. One is called AZA. It's a pharma company. And my co-founder is a Boston consulting guy. And he has been transforming companies for decades, right? But he felt there was a challenge with the consulting model where you are contracted about three to six months or an extension of about 12 months in China, transform a company. You want to utilize the fund model where you have an LP that invests in your fund for about 10 years, right? 10 plus two years. And you have a lot of wrong way to actually help them transform. So with that angle, you know, the lowest companies in Japan are actually commanding a lot within the Japanese ecosystem from the economy perspective. So if you were able to turn these companies into strong software companies, that would be an angle to transform Japan. And the other one is our main business is the fund investments, invest in the next cell source in Japan and have them be installed in literally all the companies in Japan and fast track all of them. That's where I want to double click on this. so what do you mean to say is, other than being LPs, do you do join ventures then? Do you do spinouts or do insert startups into these companies as customers? It probably varies, but I love for you to elaborate a little bit more. Yeah, there are several ways to digitize a company. And one is for them to install digital products within there from internally. And our angry LPs are actively looking at our portfolio companies and adopting those services to become more competitive in their respective markets. So that's one. The second is to really sit down with them and help them put together a roadmap about how to become a digital company, like how Netflix became a DVD rental business to a streaming service. But mainly what we actually do is heavy consulting and also introduce our portfolio companies to them.

好的，我们来聊聊一个非常有趣的事情，那就是资本的数字化转型计划。你能多说一点吗？ 当然。我们的使命是通过数字化转型让日本变得更高效。为了实现这一目标，使用基金模式是一个有效的方法。我们有两个主要的出资者，其中一个是名为AZA的制药公司，我的合伙人则是一位来自波士顿咨询公司的专家。他们在公司转型方面已有几十年的经验。然而，他发现传统的咨询模式存在局限性，因为变革一个公司通常只签订三到六个月的合约，有时会延长到12个月，但这时间还是不够的。相比之下，基金模式中有限合伙人通常会为期10年左右的投资期限，从而提供更多时间来真正帮助公司完成转型。因此，我们的目标之一是把日本的这些老牌公司变成强大的软件公司，从而推动日本经济的整体转型。 此外，我们的主要业务是基金投资。我们投资于日本的下一代企业，并希望这些企业能被广泛地应用于日本各类公司，加速整个市场的数字化进程。 那你刚才提到的，除了担任有限合伙人外，你们还会进行合资吗？你们会推出新的公司或者将初创企业引入这些老牌公司吗？ 具体方式可能有所不同，但我能详细解释一下。重塑一家公司有几种方法。一种是他们在内部安装数字产品，而我们的主要出资者会积极地关注我们的投资组合公司，并采用这些服务来提高其在市场中的竞争力。这是其一。第二种方法是与他们坐下来，一起制定转型为数字化公司的路线图，比如像Netflix从DVD租赁公司转型为流媒体服务公司那样。但我们主要做的是深度的咨询工作，同时将我们投资组合中的公司介绍给他们。

Fantastic. And I wanted to jump to another interesting innovation that one capital has done, which is projection.ai, which is a very interesting platform that you should share with the audience. I wanted to also see what's the biggest learning from the experience of putting this step up together and saw the interesting insights that you have gleaned in, but missing the demo is very impressive. I would urge all the listeners to check it out.

太棒了。我想跳到另一个资本公司所作的一个有趣创新，这个项目叫做projection.ai，这是一个非常有趣的平台，你应该向观众分享。我也想了解一下，在组建这个项目的过程中，你们最大的收获是什么，以及你们从中了解到的一些有趣的见解。虽然错过了演示环节，但仍然给人留下了深刻印象。我强烈建议所有听众去了解一下。

But yeah, as another son, this tells more. Yeah. So the thinking behind that was, I'm a software investor, right? But I've never built the software myself. And I thought in order to be better at investing, getting a better understanding of how to build software would escalate my ability to become a better investor, right? And also have stronger empathy towards founders. And of course, I read a ton of coaching books. I took coaching lessons and I try and always be empathetic. But at the same time, if you don't have that experience, it's really hard to emulate those kinds of characteristics.

但是，作为另一个儿子，这就说明了更多的问题。对吧？所以我的想法是，我是一名软件投资者，对吧？但我从来没有自己构建过软件。我认为，为了提高投资能力，深入了解如何构建软件会提升我成为更好投资者的能力，对吧？同时，这也能让我对创业者产生更强的同理心。当然，我读了很多关于指导的书籍，也上了指导课程，尽量做到同理心。但同时，如果没有那种经验，很难真正模仿出这些特质。

So that's one. And secondly, I wanted to build software that was relevant to VC. And I think there's several aspects to that one, you need data. And especially enterprise software, there's a lot of data around. And I really admire the reports that Bessemer actually publishes and they have this Bessemer cloud index. So we have a same version of Japan called one capital cloud index. And starting off from there, we're like, why don't we put it put together a database just for SAS public companies.

所以这是第一点。其次，我想开发与风险投资相关的软件。我认为这方面有几个重要因素，首先你需要数据。尤其在企业软件领域，有大量的数据。我非常欣赏Bessemer发布的报告，他们有一个Bessemer云指数。我们在日本也有一个类似的版本，叫One Capital云指数。从那里开始，我们想，为什么不为SaaS上市公司建立一个数据库呢？

And also the database is evolving to capture private SAS companies, data. And why don't we publish this on the web? And that would also benefit to SAS ecosystem, but also our founders that we backed. Because these founders that we backed are building products every single day and talking with customers. And this one, we really have time to log down to Bloomberg, right? Every single second. But Bloomberg is an amazing database, but it doesn't really cover just SAS, it covers everything, right?

而且这个数据库也在不断发展，以收集私人SAS公司的数据。为什么我们不把它发布到网上呢？这样不仅能惠及SAS生态系统，还能帮助我们支持的创始人。这些创始人每天都在开发产品并与客户沟通。而我们真的没有时间时刻登录到彭博社对吧？虽然彭博社是一个很棒的数据库，但它不仅仅涵盖SAS，还包括所有内容，对吧？

So we wanted to build this database that was just focused on SAS. And I guess you took a look at it and happy that you like it. Just fantastic. I think you're very humble, but I would say the world of most impressive software platform that you build, especially comprehensive Japanese data.

所以我们想建立一个专注于SAS（统计分析系统）的数据库。我猜你已经看过了，并且很喜欢它，真是太棒了。我觉得你很谦虚，但我想说你构建的平台是世界上最令人印象深刻的软件平台之一，尤其是在综合日本数据方面。

So I would also now connect to your investing one capital. What would you say is your most impactful investment that you feel the most proud of either one capital would be prior to that. Tell us the story of how you met the founders and biggest challenge to the partnership. Yeah. Our one capital is pretty new. So we've got interesting companies in our portfolio. And those are like OVIST, Healthfield, and Knowledge Work. And we've got a bunch of them, which is emerging. They're still in the early stages, but in becoming middle to late stage companies right now.

那么，我想请你谈谈你投资于 One Capital 的情况。你认为你最引以为傲、最有影响力的一项投资是什么？请告诉我们你是如何与创始人们见面的，以及在合作过程中遇到的最大挑战是什么。 嗯，我们的 One Capital 还比较新，所以我们的投资组合里有一些有趣的公司，比如 OVIST、Healthfield 和 Knowledge Work。此外，我们还有一些正在崭露头角的公司，它们目前仍处于早期阶段，但正在向中后期公司发展。

The company that would raise from an impactful perspective that's already gone public is a company called VisionAll. And in England, I think you went to see the World Cup stock with him or something. Yeah, that's right. Minami said, no. My first interaction was when he was like just after he graduated from the building, the rock and baseball team. And he was thinking about starting a company. And he was thinking about maybe switching to a company. So he wasn't really sure. But when he shared with me the deck of BizReach, the matching platform, I was blown away.

从影响力角度来看，一家在公开上市后引起关注的公司叫 VisionAll。而在英国，我记得你曾陪他去看过世界杯股票什么的。对，没错。Minami 说，其实不然。我第一次与他互动是在他刚毕业的时候，那时他刚离开某建筑团队、摇滚乐队和棒球队。那时候，他正考虑创业或者加入某家公司，态度还不确定。但当他向我展示 BizReach，这个匹配平台的演示文稿时，我被深深震撼了。

I was in a VC then. I was trying to back him to my entity, Eddy Tortu. It wasn't successful. And I regret that since that day. And I've been a close friend and had a relationship after that in initial discussion. And then I went on to become the Japan have self source, and then I backed him there. And it's a very unique company where she raised a little, just a small amount of money, built a business, sold it, and used that as fresh cash to fund his business matching platform.

我当时在一家风投公司。我试图把他引荐到我的公司，Eddy Tortu。但没有成功。从那一天起我就一直很遗憾。从最初的讨论之后，我们成为了亲密的朋友并建立了关系。后来，我成了日本自有资源的负责人，并在那里支持了他。这是一家很特别的公司，她筹集了一小笔资金，建立了业务，并卖掉它，用这笔新资金来资助他的业务匹配平台。

And self source was a series A investor. But I think the round was around 50 million of raise, which is gigantic from Japan's standards. And now he is a public company with close to $3 million in market cap. I love the great story. And I also see his journey. And I hear all the great stories that he tells me about you. And you have been a great business partner for him. That's great. I think recently we have been very interested in Japan. We have main investors with the core investor with you in Nudge. So he just announced a new one called Blumo in investment space. And you are the grandmaster of Japan investing.

自源公司是A轮投资人。我记得那轮融资大约是5000万美元，这在日本的标准来说非常庞大。现在他是一个市值接近300万美元的上市公司。我非常喜欢这个故事。我也见证了他的历程，并且听到了他为你讲述的所有精彩故事。你一直是他非常好的商业伙伴。这真是太好了。我认为我们最近对日本非常感兴趣。我们拥有与你在Nudge公司的主要投资人。因此他刚刚在投资领域宣布了一个新项目，名字叫Blumo。你是日本投资界的宗师。

What are the advantages of building a tech company in Japan versus other markets? I think some of my listeners may not be that familiar to the market. And what can entrepreneurs in South Asia or elsewhere learn from the entrepreneurs who have partnered with it by CVS? See, it probably is a hard market to crack because of the language barrier and the cultural barrier. But at the same time, it's a big market. It's the third largest economy in the world. But especially around enterprise software, it is the second largest market after the United States.

在日本建立科技公司相比其他市场有哪些优势呢？我想我的一些听众可能对这个市场不太熟悉。那么南亚或其他地方的创业者可以从与CVS合作的日本创业者身上学到什么呢？确实，日本市场可能因为语言和文化障碍而不易进入，但同时它也是一个巨大的市场，是世界第三大经济体。尤其在企业软件领域，日本仅次于美国，是第二大市场。

Let me give you some figures. It's about $280 billion on an annual spend basis, on an annual spend basis. And a lot of that is dominated by ARM-PAM legacy software that I just mentioned about when I was using it out of the Tochu. So it's a low hanging fruit. If you have a great user interface experience, you can land customers. The initial V-Ray should start with SMBs and then maybe the mid-marketing enterprise. But it's a very low hanging fruit market. And I think a peer that you back when you were at Sequoia, they entered Japan with a great product.

让我提供一些数据。这是每年约2800亿美元的支出，其中很大一部分由我刚才提到的软件ARM-PAM传统系统所占据。我在Tochu使用时提到过这些软件。这个市场相对容易开发。如果你能提供出色的用户界面体验，就能吸引客户。最初的V-Ray项目应该从中小企业入手，然后可能扩展到中型市场企业。但这是一个相对容易进入的市场。我记得你在Sequoia的时候，有一个团队也是凭借一款出色的产品打入了日本市场。

I think they got huge enterprise customers like Cyboration and they were in public. So if you are able to crack the market from language in a cultural perspective, you will do well in Japan. Let's create UBI, first part of call, the very master to learn from. And I think you mentioned, I think the app here story which appeared on the Tochu. S-H-H. In addition, we also see a number of portfolio companies like Caro, Internet, X-Pand to Japan.

我认为他们有像 Cyboration 这样的大型企业客户，而且这些企业都是公开的。因此，如果你能从语言和文化的角度打入市场，你在日本会做得很成功。让我们创建一个统一基本收入（UBI），这是我们需要学习的一个重要部分。而且我注意到，你提到的那个在 Tochu 上出现的应用故事也很有意思。此外，我们还看到一些投资组合公司，比如 Caro、Internet 和 X-Pand 进入了日本市场。

What advice do you have for founders, A, looking to expand Japan and also considering going public on the Tochu. S-H-H. Because I think one of the interesting things about Tochu. S-H-H-H, actually, you are compared to NYSE or NASDAQ. You actually can go public at a fairly early stage in the company's life cycle. Of course, I think there are some best practices that you do have Japanese customers, but you will be the expert to share. Yep. So you're definitely right. Some US investors called the growth market in Japan, the public growth market in Japan as a series B round.

您对那些希望扩展到日本并考虑在Tochu. S-H-H上市的创始人有什么建议吗？因为我认为Tochu. S-H-H的一个有趣之处在于，与纽约证券交易所或纳斯达克相比，你实际上可以在公司生命周期的相对早期阶段上市。当然，我认为有一些最佳实践，比如你确实需要一些日本客户，但你将是分享这些经验的专家。是的，你说的对，一些美国投资者称日本的公共增长市场为B轮融资。

A typical company that goes public does about 10 million of AR, but it's also profitable about a million dollars of their profit, meaning slower growth in smaller companies. At the same time, the history tells us that you can go public earlier, but your market cap is not going to grow as fast because you're not spending enough cash to grow your business, right? There's closing costs to everything, so that's how I feel.

一家典型的上市公司大约有1000万的应收账款，但它也能实现约100万美元的利润，这意味着小公司增长较慢。同时，历史告诉我们，你可以更早上市，但你的市值不会增长得那么快，因为你没有花足够的资金来扩展业务，对吧？每件事都有其代价，所以这是我的看法。

And to answer your first question about Japan entry, I think you should really hire a strong country manager that isn't purely about his or her bilingual abilities. Maybe the person might not have a Harvard physical degree or something. The guy that can the guy or gal that can actually execute is what I would really recommend. But it is challenging to be communicating with the local Japan head that doesn't speak fully in English, but at the same time, we got all kinds of tools out there, right? Like Google channels, they and all that stuff. So I think you should really focus on execution versus the ability to really communicate.

关于你第一个关于日本市场进入的问题，我建议你应该聘用一位强有力的国家经理，而不仅仅是因为他或她具备双语能力。可能这个人并没有哈佛的正式学位，但我推荐的是真正能够执行任务的人。不过，与一个不完全讲英语的日本负责人沟通确实有挑战性，但现在我们有各种工具，比如谷歌翻译等等。所以我认为你应该更注重执行能力，而不是单纯的沟通能力。

I also wanted to get you to give a landscape for our limited partners in the audience where we have quite a couple of listeners. Japan is relatively new market to them. I don't know how many of them are going to invest in Japan, but it's relatively new for the venture landscape. But you are particularly the opportunity set in Japan, which capital for someone who has not looked at the market before. Yeah, so Japan's 22 venture capital market was around 10 billion, right? And the government is emphasizing that they want to 10 accept by 27, 2027 to 100 billion.

我还想让你为我们在场的有限合伙人描述一下整体情况，这里有很多听众。对他们来说，日本是一个相对较新的市场。我不知道有多少人会在日本投资，但对于风险投资来说，这是一个相对新兴的市场。不过，你特别了解日本的机遇，对于那些之前没有了解过该市场的人来说，日本2022年的风险资本市场规模大约是100亿美元，对吗？而且政府强调，他们希望到2027年将这个规模扩大到1000亿美元。

So there's going to be a lot of cash that is going to be put into the market, which is a good thing all around because the economy size is big enough, but the innovation part is lacking. So why not put in more venture capital money in the government supportive and the multiples, which is extremely important for investors, is down and is too in the US market. Like a SaaS company multiple would be trading around 15 to 20 X, probably in 2021 figures, now trading around 5 to 6 X.

所以会有大量的现金流入市场，这是件好事，因为经济规模足够大，但创新方面有所欠缺。所以为什么不多投入一些风险资本呢？政府对这种支持是很重要的，而投资者看重的倍数也在下降，美国市场也是如此。比如，一家SaaS公司的倍数在2021年大约是15到20倍，现在大约只有5到6倍。

So I think it's great timing to take a look at Japan from an LP standpoint and started the low point of the market, because if you are starting from the high point of the market, you're expecting it to go higher. That's a difficult sell, right? That's great. And I would say the prior conception for Japanese soldiers, it's there and many place they stay in a job for one their whole career. But I think it's starting to change. And I don't think people recognize that we understand a little bit about the transition of the Japanese entrepreneur pool.

我觉得现在从有限合伙人（LP）的角度来看日本市场是个很好的时机，尤其是在市场低谷开始的时候，因为如果你从市场高点开始，就会期望它更高。这就不容易说服别人了，对吧？这很好。我还想说，之前很多人觉得日本的员工一生都在一个公司工作，但是我认为这种情况正在改变。我觉得很多人还没有注意到我们对日本企业家群体的转变有一些了解。

So I was probably a typical Japanese guy that wanted to work at a torture for life. I was there for 15 years and it wasn't a casual decision for me to leave a torture. It was a great company. It was like a family culture. There's two types of entrepreneurs that I'm looking at, right? One, the ones that are really members of public companies right now, like Samsung, VisionAll and Free, those members have really been the catalyst of growing the companies from the ground up and they are starting their own companies, right?

所以，我可能就是一个典型的日本人，希望一辈子都在一家公司工作。我在那家公司干了15年，离开并不是一个轻易做出的决定。那是一家很棒的公司，有着像家一样的文化。我观察到两种类型的企业家。第一种，现在是在一些上市公司工作的人，比如三星、VisionAll和Free。这些人从零开始，推动了公司的成长。现在，他们正开始创办自己的公司。

The second one are people that worked at Compleza Gito Chu or Mitsuyu or any big company in Japan and transferred to a tech company here like Google, Facebook, Salesforce. Those members are also great potential entrepreneurs for us to back. And when you even talk to the younger generation, they have their own sophisticated three-year map, right? Start with a big Japanese company or a US tech company, be there for three or four years, experience it, go to a startup, build a business and then start, right? Because as I mentioned, if the government is really trying to push forward entrepreneurship, there's a lot of capital there.

第二类人指的是那些曾在Compleza Gito Chu或Mitsuyu等大型日本公司工作过，并且转到这里的科技公司（如谷歌、脸书、Salesforce）的人。这些人也有很大的潜力成为我们可以支持的企业家。而当你与年轻一代交流时，他们往往会有自己的详细三年计划，通常是先在一家大型日本公司或美国科技公司工作三到四年，积累经验，然后去一家初创公司创业，最后再自己创立公司。正如我提到的，如果政府真的在推动创业精神，这里会有大量的资本支持。

And then the cultural norm that you can't make mistakes in Japan is probably going to change. That's great. I wanted to say a little bit about the current economy, which is obviously going through and, and certain times, what is your advice to founders, the successful, this navigating sales and monetization? Also, we know environment where there's tech spending and cost cutting. Yeah, totally. I think the straightforward answer is burn multiple, right?

然后，日本不能犯错的文化规范可能会改变。这是件好事。我想稍微谈一下当前的经济状况，显然我们正在经历一些特别的时期。对于那些成功驾驭销售和货币化的创始人，你有什么建议吗？我们也知道现在的环境中科技支出和成本削减都有所变化。完全同意。我认为最直接的答案是“燃烧倍数”。

It used to just be growth, right? And in SAS, if you grew triple, triple double, you would be awarded a term sheet, right? From 10 different SAS investors, right? But you also have to look at burn multiples, right? Even that if you are sacrificing a little bit of growth, I think burn multiple is how you should play the game. And David Sacks, the famous SAS investor in the US, a famous blog about burn multiple. If you're about one X, you're a great company. If you're a two X, that's so so if you're a three X, that's a bad growth rate.

以前只要是增长就行，对吧？在SAS（软件即服务）行业，如果你的公司实现连续三年三倍增长、两倍增长，那你就会得到投资条款书，对吧？来自十个不同的SAS投资者，对吧？但是你也得看烧钱倍数，对吧？即使你牺牲了一些增长，我认为烧钱倍数才是你应该关注的重点。美国著名的SAS投资者大卫·萨克斯写过一篇关于烧钱倍数的著名博客。如果你的烧钱倍数是1倍，那你是一个很棒的公司。如果是2倍，那就是一般。如果是3倍，那就是糟糕的增长率。

So I have been really commanding this within my portfolio companies. And they are in the ranges of one X two X burn multiple. And congrats to the entrepreneurs that actually executed this end. With a stronger market and a robust financial market, they would be awarded a term sheet with favorable terms. But if you are burning money in two months and saying that you're growing, your Indian economics doesn't make sense. That's not a good business being burn multiple is my straightforward answer. That's great.

所以，我一直在我的投资组合公司中强烈要求这一点。他们的烧钱倍数范围在1到2倍之间。恭喜那些确实执行了这一要求的企业家。在一个更强劲的市场和健全的金融市场中，他们将获得带有优惠条款的投资意向书。但是如果你在两个月内烧掉大量资金，却声称自己在增长，这样的单位经济学是没有意义的。这不是一个好的商业模式，烧钱倍数是我简单明了的答案。这样很好。

And I also want to talk from the topic that's quite hot recently, generated AI, GPT for how are you seeing this impact the way new generations of companies are grown? I think it's a huge threat and also a huge potential. It's nothing in between. It's interesting that some outman came to Japan and met the Prime Minister, Kishil right? But generically, Japan is taking that huge innovation in a positive way to try and transform Japan.

我还想谈谈最近非常热门的话题，生成式人工智能（如GPT）。你们认为这对新一代公司的发展有何影响？我认为这是一个巨大的威胁，同时也是一个巨大的潜力，两者之间没有中间地带。有趣的是，OpenAI的首席执行官山姆·阿尔特曼来到日本，会见了日本首相岸田文雄。总体来看，日本对这种巨大的创新持积极态度，希望通过它来改造日本。

So for SAS entrepreneurs, you should obviously embrace it and collect their API or build something related to them and super Georgia service. And I think the companies that will do well are companies or SAS companies that are a system of record that have enough data within their product set, either from a product standpoint or from a user standpoint, and utilize that data and make the experience better.

所以，对于SaaS创业者来说，你们显然应该接受这一点，并收集他们的API，或者建立与他们相关的东西，提供超级可靠的服务。我认为，表现出色的公司或SaaS公司，是那些拥有足够数据记录的公司。这些数据可以来自产品方面，也可以来自用户方面，通过利用这些数据来改善用户体验的公司将会更成功。

So those are the companies that's going to do well. The companies that might struggle or even become obsolete are ones that don't have data. It's not a system of record, maybe a system of engagement. But I think those will be challenging, right? Like even for an amazing public Zoom, I'm sure there's a lot of recorded data on their archives, but I think it's just for an archive not being really utilized. And if they do on D there, maybe they will be super charged. But if they don't, since it's not a system of record, it might be replaced by another party, right?

所以，那些拥有数据的公司会表现得很好。可能会遇到困难甚至被淘汰的公司是那些没有数据的公司。它们可能只是一个互动系统，而不是记录系统。但我认为这会很有挑战性。即使像Zoom这样出色的公司，我相信他们的档案里也有很多录制的数据，但这些数据可能只是存档，没有真正被利用。如果他们在数据利用方面有所突破，也许会更加强大。但如果没有利用，因为它不是一个记录系统，可能会被其他公司取代，对吧？

That's great. We have a segment called the minute master class where, you know, if you were to give a master class or a growth for SAS companies to found this, what would be one of the key lessons of benchmarking and leveraging industry data that you want your founders to take away? And I think it's Bobo, but multiple was another mostly part of metric that you track. So that's why we built projection AI database.

那太好了。我们有一个叫一分钟大师课的环节，你知道的，如果你要给SaaS公司创始人上一堂关于增长的课程，你想让他们从中学到的关键教训之一是什么，是关于基准测试和利用行业数据的？我觉得是BOBO，但倍数也是你追踪的另一个重要指标。所以我们才建立了Projection AI数据库。

And you want to look at your ratio of sales and marketing R&D and GNA spend. And initially, since you're just trying to grow, you don't really manage that kind of balance. And you focus too much on sales and marketing spend, or there's even companies that spend too much cash on GNA, which doesn't generate any cash, right? Because there's a lot of house screening to do from a governance perspective, from a documentation perspective. I've seen several companies that we've taken a look at spend about 30% of their revenue on GNA. If it's just one year, maybe that's solid, but if that's continuing, that's a nightmare. So focus on the balance of spending in sales and marketing R&D and GNA. And for example, if you are a pure tech company catering towards engineers like Atlassian, of course, spend a lot on R&D, right? I think Atlassian spends over like 50% on R&D, right? Whereas Salesforce spends over 50% on sales and marketing because it's a sales company. So depending on your product, depending on the demographics or segment that you're targeting, use your S&M R&D wisely and take a look at our database projection AI database. And you will have great examples of that. Those are public companies, and you should not discount it because they're public. Those are like outstanding businesses that's become public and growing. So I think you should take a look at that ratio. I strongly recommend people check out the projection about AI and we might need to remind myself to sign up today. Thank you so much.

你需要关注销售和市场、研发（R&D）以及一般管理（GNA）支出的比例。刚开始发展时，因为主要目标是增长，可能不会太在意这种平衡。但如果过度投入在销售和市场支出，或者有些公司在GNA上花费过多现金，反而不会带来收益。由于管理和文档方面的需求，有些公司在GNA上的花费占收入的30%。如果仅仅是一年可能还算稳健，但如果持续下去就会变成灾难。 所以，要注重销售和市场、研发以及GNA支出的平衡。例如，如果你是一家针对工程师的科技公司，比如Atlassian，当然要在研发上投入大量资金，据说Atlassian在研发上的花费超过总支出的50%。而Salesforce作为一家销售公司，销售和市场费用占据总支出的50%以上。根据你的产品以及目标客户，合理分配销售和市场、研发支出。 查看我们的AI数据库投影，你会发现很多优秀的案例。这些都是公开上市的公司，你不应该因为它们是上市公司就忽视它们。它们是了不起的企业，已经公开上市并且在持续增长。因此，我强烈建议大家关注这个比例，另外也提醒自己今天要注册，非常感谢。

So I think we moved to the rapid fire round. I will ask the best and then you can have a short answer. What's currently your favorite genitive AI use case and tool? To be honest, I'm being overwhelmed with all the tools and I'm trying to use here and there. Chat GPT has been like golden tool. I think the ratio is 50, 50 between Google search and chat GPT right now. It's increasing. Wow, that's pretty high. If you were invited to produce a network show, what would be the title of the show and what would it be about in one line? Japan SaaS. Oh, that's great. The server exponentially. Looking back now is one skill at a software hard skill that you believe you should have learned back in your time in school or early part of a career. Pudding. That's a sort of very, yeah, a server symmetry one. If there's something that you could get in your job, just say wishing for it. One aspect of your job with this beat. Or for your construction. Oh, okay. I want to help. Probably was fundraising, but okay, this is the best. That's also great. That's the way.

所以我认为我们应该进入快速问答环节。我会问一些最重要的问题，你可以简单回答。你目前最喜欢的生成式AI应用案例和工具是什么？老实说，我现在有点被各种工具淹没了，我在这里那里都在尝试使用。ChatGPT像一个金色工具。我觉得现在的比率在Google搜索和ChatGPT之间是50:50，并且还在增加。哇，这比率真高。如果你被邀请制作一档电视节目，这个节目叫什么，内容一句话概括是什么？日本SaaS。哦，这真棒。服务器成指数级增长。现在回头看，有什么软件硬技能是你觉得你应该在学校或职业早期学会的？编程。这是一个非常对称性的技能。如果你可以在工作中实现一个愿望，那会是什么？或者说你工作中的哪个方面是你希望改进的？工作建设。哦，好。我想这可能是融资，不过这样也不错。这也是很好的方式。

What's your favorite go-to destination in SaaS Asia? Apart from Singapore? I grew up in Malaysia. SaaS. Which one? The Kuala Lumpur. Oh, wow. Okay. I see. That's great. And I think this is more for myself. So what's your favorite activity to do? Stress. Basketball. Oh, really? Okay. We should get a game in the Tokyo or Singapore. Maybe. Yeah. And a favorite book to recommend. I think it's zero to one. Period. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great one. That was a good one. And also, I think a billion dollar coach, a little Campbell. A billion dollar coach. Okay. Do you have a Japanese one to recommend? Several. I recommend the book read by Swimi. I mean, I'm in Sanjay's original CEO. Okay. Okay. Questioning your judgment. Like all the time. Why is that? Why is that? I think it's a very tactical book. So thank you. No, thank you so much. This is a great pleasure talking to you. It's been a wrap up information. I learned a lot and we have been partners and looked for the deepening of partnership. I might go two percent in Japan for not only SaaS but all things Japan. So thanks for your time. Thank you.

你在亚洲的SaaS行业中最喜欢的目的地是哪一个？除了新加坡以外呢？我是在马来西亚长大的。SaaS行业啊？你是说哪个城市？是吉隆坡。哦，哇。好的，我明白了。这很棒。我想这更多是我个人的问题。你最喜欢做的活动是什么？减压的话。打篮球。哦，真的吗？好的，我们应该在东京或者新加坡打一场球吧。也许吧。那你推荐的一本最喜欢的书是什么？我觉得是《从零到一》。嗯，对，那是一本很好的书。还有，我觉得《十亿教练》，是李·坎贝尔写的。《十亿教练》，好的。你有推荐的日本书籍吗？有几本。我推荐由Swimi写的书。我是说，三宅的原CEO写的书。好的，好的。你总是质疑自己的判断吗？为什么呢？为什么呢？我觉得这是一本很实用的书。谢谢你。不用谢，非常感谢。这是一次很愉快的交流。我学到了很多，我们一直是合作伙伴，希望我们的合作能进一步深化。我可能会在日本参与的不仅是SaaS而是所有事情的2%。所以谢谢你的时间。谢谢。