Robin Zeng - Founder and CEO of CATL | In Good Company | Norges Bank Investment Management
发布时间 2024-09-18 04:00:02 来源
Hi everybody and welcome to In Good Company. I'm Nicola Tangyan and the CEO of the Norwegian Wealth Fund and today we have an incredible guest. Robin Zhang, the founder and CEO of CATL, the world largest battery producer. Now it's not only the world largest, it's got a whopping 40% of this mega market. Wow. So Robin, how did this come about? How is it possible to end up with 40% of such a big market? No, no, not your 40% to be correct, 37.5% something less than 40. But I think most important is the market needs a lot of the right products to do the immobility. So the right product you need a right technology.
大家好，欢迎来到《In Good Company》。我是Nicola Tangyan，挪威财富基金的CEO，今天我们有一位非常特别的嘉宾，CATL（宁德时代）的创始人兼CEO——Robin Zhang。CATL是全球最大的电池生产商，占据了这个庞大市场的40%。哇，真是令人惊叹。Robin，请问这是怎么做到的？如何能在如此大的市场中占据40%的份额？哦，对，不是40%，确切地说是37.5%，略少于40%。我认为最重要的是市场需要大量合适的产品来推动电动出行。要有合适的产品就需要有合适的技术。
So in our world it's more like a right chemical, right material, which you really have good products. So this good product is finished to the purpose of the consumer. That's why consumers really love it. That's why the customers, OEMs, would like to make these products and put this product into their car. That's why we can power millions of cars.
所以在我们的世界中，这更像是找到合适的化学物质和材料，才能生产出真正优秀的产品。这样的优秀产品可以完美满足消费者的需求，所以消费者非常喜欢它。也因此，客户和原始设备制造商（OEM）愿意生产这些产品并将其装入他们的汽车。因此我们能够为数百万辆汽车提供动力。
So despite your incredible market positions, there may be some listeners who don't know what your products are. So just very briefly, what type of products do you have? We have two major products. One is battery. We call it battery for immobility. So you can have the product in Tesla's car, Model 3, Model 1.
尽管你们在市场上的地位非常强大，可能还是有一些听众不知道你们的产品。所以，能简短介绍一下你们的产品类型吗？我们有两类主要产品。第一类是电池，我们称之为用于移动设备的电池，比如你可以在特斯拉的Model 3和Model 1汽车中找到我们的产品。
So in all the Chinese car makers are also in many of the OEMs cars. So this battery we call it to power the whole car. So it's a Bef, B-E-V. One product is we make a battery for energy storage. You know all the renewable energy like wind turbine and solar cell. That's why you need a storage battery, full-scale storage, regulate the unstable renewable energy surprise, which makes these energy supply become very stable, very predictable and very fit this to the industry use and other use.
所以，总的来说，中国的汽车制造商也生产许多原始设备制造商（OEM）的汽车。这种电池我们叫做动力电池，用来驱动车辆。它是一种电动汽车电池（BEV）。我们的一种产品是用来储能的电池。你知道所有的可再生能源，例如风力发电和太阳能电池。这就是为什么你需要一个储能电池，大规模储能，可以调节不稳定的可再生能源供应，从而使这些能源供应变得非常稳定、非常可预测，并且非常适合工业用途和其他用途。
It's been the main steps from going from zero to 37.5% world market share. How long has it taken you? Yeah, we take almost 12 years from zero to this 37.5%. The major is not because only these 12 years because our team has been working on this industry for now. It's a quarter century. Twenty-five years ago we started a business with this lithium ion battery, which definitely is for mobile phone, for the notebook, for all the consumer electronic applications. So we have the similar technology from twenty-five years ago.
从零到占全球市场份额的37.5%，我们经历了主要的几个步骤。花了多长时间呢？是的，我们花了将近12年的时间从零达到37.5%。其主要原因不仅仅是这12年，而是因为我们的团队在这个行业已经耕耘了25年。二十五年前，我们开始涉足锂离子电池业务，这些电池主要用于手机、笔记本和所有消费类电子产品。因此，我们拥有与25年前相似的技术。
Who do you consider your competitors? Today I think competitor is ourself because we don't have, we still have a lot of to do, especially on the electrical chemical side. You know the material today, we still in the case of material like lithium ion phosphor and NCM, and the material still on the graphite as some silicon. Most important is the new chemistry we have to invent.
你认为你的竞争对手是谁？我认为我们最大的竞争对手是我们自己，因为我们还有很多工作要做，尤其是在电化学方面。你知道，现在的材料主要是磷酸铁锂和NCM，材料还是用的石墨和一些硅。最重要的是我们必须发明新的化学材料。
So only invent new chemistry can also fit more usage, more requirement from consumer, for example, low temperature performance. You say that your competitor is yourself. Are you not worried about any other competitors? I don't consider them as competitors. Actually, we're loved to have more people join in this journey, which really can have the inventions. It's not a copycat. It's the inventions which can help to make the consumer and make the customer happy with the real good performance of the products and technologies.
所以，只有发明新的化学配方才能满足更多的使用需求和消费者的要求，例如低温性能。你说你的竞争对手是你自己，你不担心其他竞争对手吗？我不把他们当作竞争对手。实际上，我们很乐意有更多的人加入这段旅程，这样才能真正进行发明。这不仅仅是简单的模仿，而是真正的发明，能够让消费者感到满意，并提供真正优秀的产品和技术性能。
Because only the competition in innovation, competition in creativity, which can help this industry very healthy to grow in the future. And how important is state support in getting to that type of position? But in China, it's more complicated because Chinese try to make a lot of products which fit to the consumer usage. So Chinese OEM more like we call it, hearing more requests from the consumer, then they make a good design faster than anyone else in the world.
因为只有在创新和创意方面的竞争，才能帮助这个行业在未来健康发展。而国家支持在实现这种竞争中是多么重要？但在中国，情况更加复杂，因为中国制造商试图生产大量符合消费者使用需求的产品。所以我们称中国的原始设备制造商更倾向于听取消费者的需求，然后比世界上其他地方更快地设计出好的产品。
That's why they can grow out a lot of good products. So in order to support the Chinese OEM on this aspect, the theater has been well trained to how to quick fast-grass the needs and how to quick fast- We have more than 20,000 people, engineers, very good talents in my area because they need a focus on many aspects. But I mean, 20,000 is nearly as many people as live in my hometown. So what do they do? This 20,000 people is focused on basic materials, structures.
这就是他们能够生产出很多好产品的原因。因此，为了在这方面支持中国的代工制造商，我们的团队经过了充分的培训，学会如何快速掌握需求以及快速应对。我们这里有超过两万名工程师和优秀人才，因为他们需要专注于多个方面。我是说，这两万人几乎和我家乡的人口一样多。那么他们具体做什么呢？这两万人专注于基础材料和结构方面的研究。
Some people focus on siloations. Some people focus on the inter-relations of materials. Some people focus on the future chemistry. For example, we call AI for science. I need to use artificial intelligence to try to find out the necessary evolutionary material in the chemical system beyond the lithium ions. We need to have some research guide on the battery management systems and the software.
有些人专注于单一领域的研究。有些人关注不同材料之间的相互关系。有些人则着眼于未来的化学发展。例如，我们称之为科学的人工智能。我需要利用人工智能来寻找超越锂离子化学系统所需的进化材料。我们也需要一些关于电池管理系统和相关软件的研究指南。
All together, like 21,000 engineers, they have several hundred PhDs and many, many masters. The low sea anchors have been working here for every more than three or five years. They have become a very good talent and I hope they can have more innovations in the future to help the human climate changing focus on these renewable energies.
总共有大约21,000名工程师，他们中有几百位拥有博士学位，还有许多拥有硕士学位。这些基层员工在这里工作了至少三到五年，他们已经成为非常优秀的人才。我希望他们未来能够有更多创新，帮助人类应对气候变化，尤其是在可再生能源领域。
The talent pool you have is incredible, right? I saw that two out of three widely cited papers on battery technology came out of China, only 12% coming out of the US. Also, you in China have more than 50 graduate programs in batteries compared to only a few in the US. So how can the rest of the world possibly compete with you? Almost 12 years ago, when Angela Merkel visited China, we have some discussions among that. Let them, German people already thinking about how, why they cannot make a good battery? It's because they make a medical engine, they make a very good gear boss. So you know, German people saying they can make a medical battery.
你们的人才库真是令人难以置信，不是吗？我看到在电池技术方面，被广泛引用的论文中有三分之二来自中国，而美国仅占12%。此外，中国有超过50个电池专业的研究生项目，而美国却只有少数几个。那么，世界其他地方怎么可能与你们竞争呢？大约12年前，当安格拉·默克尔访问中国时，我们就讨论过这个问题。德国人那时就在思考，为什么他们不能制造出好的电池？这是因为他们擅长制造医疗引擎和非常好的变速箱。所以，你知道的，德国人说他们可以制造出优质的医疗电池。
Let's try, when we have some discussions on that, I told them, unfortunately, unfortunately this is, China have a lot of universities still working on the electrical chemical. So usually, electrical chemistry is a very low-end people looking at it because if you graduate from electrical chemistry, you cannot find a good job, you know? You can only find people for less batteries. You only find a job for the anti-closions. So all these kind of low-paid jobs. That's why they are being very old and filthy.
让我们试试看，当我们讨论这个问题时，我告诉他们，遗憾的是，中国有很多大学仍在研究电化学。通常情况下，电化学在大众眼里是比较低端的领域，因为如果你从电化学专业毕业，很难找到好工作。你可能只能做一些和电池有关的低薪工作，比如防腐蚀之类的。所以这些工作通常被认为是陈旧且卑微的。
But I know, United States, a lot of good universities and students, they don't want to focus on this. They want to focus on finance and focus on semiconductors. They need to get higher pay from the lease. But China, there's a lot of students who have to go into university. That's why they find more study on the electrical chemistry. That's why we have a lot of talents compared to US, compared to Germany. So if US-Germany wants to catch up or want to overtake in the battery side, probably let's have to start from education.
但是我知道在美国，有很多好的大学和学生，他们不愿意专注于这个领域。他们更想关注金融和半导体，想要从职业中获得更高的薪酬。但是在中国，有很多学生必须进入大学学习，这就是为什么我们在电化学方面有更多的研究。这也是为什么我们在这方面的人才比美国和德国多。如果美国和德国想要赶上或者超越我们在电池领域的优势，可能需要从教育开始下功夫。
Have you got a view on the amount of talent we have in Norway? I think all 20,000 people in your hometown are all talents. So we need to find out what kind of talents to fit, what kind of use. It may not be electrical chemistry. What's the most difficult thing? Is it to invent a battery? Is it the scaling of battery production? And is it more difficult to make one or to make a thousand? So most difficult things is understanding our electrical chemical system in the real world. And other things follow is like, as I mentioned, you have to blast 20-25 years.
你对我们在挪威的人才数量有何看法？我认为你家乡的两万人都是人才。所以我们需要弄清楚哪种人才适合哪种用途。可能不是电化学方面的。那么，最困难的事情是什么呢？是发明电池吗？还是电池生产的规模化？制造一个电池和制造一千个电池哪个更难呢？
最困难的事情是在现实世界中理解我们的电化学系统。其他事情就像我提到的，还要持续20-25年。
So let's draw how you did that. And accurately, the accessibility test indicates that it's a very glitch-like kind of level. It's another difficulty in the reliability. So the scale-up production and low cost. They're looking for very low cost battery because they always compare the battery with the gasoline engine, internal combustion engine, which have developed more than 100 years, optimize and optimize. That's why they put too much burden on the batteries.
好，让我们画一下你是怎么做的。而且，根据无障碍测试的结果，这一关确实存在很多类似故障的地方。这在可靠性上也是个难点。为了实现规模化生产和降低成本，他们寻找非常低成本的电池，因为他们总是将电池与已经发展并优化了一百多年的汽油发动机进行比较。这也是为什么他们对电池有如此高的要求。
It just seems like in Europe there is such a problem scaling up production. Is there one common thing that's particularly difficult here? I talked to many people, the European battery makers, CEOs, while they cannot make good products. It's because they have a well-run design. And secondly, they have a well-run process. Certainly, they have well-run equipment. How can they scale up? If they want to scale up a lot, they would have a new utilization problem. And later on, they would be a reliability problem. And two years or three years later, they would be a safety problem.
在欧洲，生产规模扩大似乎是个大问题。这里是不是有一个共同的困难呢？我和很多人聊过，包括欧洲的电池制造商和CEO们，他们产品做得不好，原因是他们有一个运行良好的设计。其次，他们有一个运行良好的流程。当然，他们也有运行良好的设备。那他们怎么扩大规模呢？如果他们想大规模扩产，就会出现新的利用问题。之后，还会出现可靠性问题。两三年之后，还可能会有安全问题。
So almost all mistake together. So I don't know how. That doesn't sound so good. But if we start with the first one, and when you say they got the wrong design, what do you mean? Yes, stuff from the wrong design. It means that if they don't understand the electrical chemistry or the silo-e-e-slamation that the design would be wrong. They never cover the risk of the future risk.
几乎所有的错误都集中在一起了。所以我不知道该怎么办。这听起来不太好。但如果我们从第一个开始说，当你说他们设计错误时，你具体指什么呢？是的，就是从错误的设计开始。这意味着，如果他们不理解电化学或具体的设计需求，设计就会出错。他们从来没有考虑到未来的风险。
That's why the performance in testing in one day looks good. Then you want to scale up. They want to put the process, the process never cover what you need in the future. What are the implications for European battery production, then, given what you were saying, where do you think Europe is going to be in 10 years' time? For the battery application side, we will just tell about at least the immobility and both also, and the even the bullet-trang and the chai.
这就是为什么在一天内的测试表现看起来不错。然后你想扩大规模。他们想建立一个流程，但这个流程无法满足你未来的需求。那么，鉴于你所说的，这对欧洲电池生产意味着什么？你认为欧洲在10年后的情况会怎样？至于电池应用方面，我们至少会提到电动车、动车，以及甚至是子弹列车和电动链条。
Since Norway is definitely the very advanced nations for this renewable energy, maybe we can work together to make a planning. To make Norway the whole Norway becomes a zero carbon society. So I have a confidence how to mapping out electricity. The zero carbon is important. You have almost 90% of the high-jole power. Then you add up another 10% maybe from wind turbine from the sea. Another size is immobilities.
鉴于挪威在可再生能源方面无疑是非常先进的国家，我们或许可以合作制定一个计划，使整个挪威成为一个零碳社会。我对如何规划电力充满信心。实现零碳非常重要。你们已经有了近90%的高能电，然后可以再增加可能来自海上风力涡轮机的10%。另一个方面则是电动交通工具。
Your passenger car penetration is already 95% of the new cars. Then we can also help you to make these trucks to be zero carbon by our swapping battery system. Also, we can make a lot of modifications. Also, we can also help even the vessel with the range of standards. We can plan together to make a whole Norway as a number one in the world to be the zero carbon technology renewable energy nations in the world.
你们的乘用车市场渗透率已经达到新车的95%。然后，我们还可以通过我们的换电系统帮助你们让这些卡车实现零碳排放。此外，我们可以进行许多改造。我们甚至还可以在各种标准范围内帮助船舶。我们可以一起计划，使整个挪威成为世界上首个零碳技术可再生能源国家。
I think it will take around 10 years in 2025. What together will we make it? Also, you would be very happy to have a lot of income from all these different things. Well, it sounds very interesting. Unfortunately, it's above my pay grade, not my decision. I only invest money. Of course, we are happy that we have invested a lot of money with you. Now, you've been doing batteries for a long time. Do you feel that innovation is accelerating or decelerating? I don't feel too much. It's actually as a relation. You know, when the industry is small, when we start from mobile phone, the technology like growing, like a line or assets relations. But when we put more money and more people inside now, everyone looking for innovations. So, innovation space is accessible. And we believe there will be another new industry, a new chemistry come out.
我认为在2025年大概需要10年的时间。我们一起努力会做到吗？此外，你会因为所有这些不同的项目获得大量收入，这会让你很高兴。嗯，这听起来很有趣。遗憾的是，这超出了我的职权范围，不是我的决定。我只是投资资金。当然，我们很高兴已经在你这儿投资了不少钱。现在，你在电池领域已经干了很长时间了。你觉得创新在加速还是在减速？我并没有太强的感觉。实际上，这是一个关系问题。你知道，当行业规模较小时，就像我们从手机行业起步时，技术的增长就像是一条直线或资产的关系。但是，当我们投入更多资金和更多人力时，现在每个人都在寻找创新。因此，创新空间是可及的。我们相信将会有新的行业和新的化学技术出现。
That's why when we put our product in the way of our production line, we have to put the production line, have to depreciate faster. The depreciation has to be five years otherwise we want it. So new things come out. So a lot of companies, which kind of solid-state batteries is a game changer. What are the showstoppers here? Well, I've been in the police for many, many times of the different people. The basic showstoppers is still the interface, solid and solid interface. Whenever we have a custom material with the electrolyte, solid electrolyte, solid powder, so in the inner material or solid powder, solid, solid interface definitely the problem of the diffusion. The speed of the diffusion is almost two orders less than liquid electrolyte.
这就是为什么当我们在生产线上引入新产品时，我们必须让整个生产线加速折旧，折旧年限必须设定为五年，否则我们就没法继续。很多新技术不断出现，比如全固态电池被视为游戏规则的改变者。但这个过程中有哪些障碍呢？我和许多专家交流过很多次，主要的障碍依然是固固界面的问题。每当我们使用定制材料与固态电解质，或固态粉末，固固界面的扩散问题就会显现出来。与液态电解质相比，固固界面的扩散速度几乎慢了两个数量级。
That's why people have to put the pressure, to put the two solid powder together, very heavy pressures that make it work. But in a real application days, how can you get the heavy pressures? So that's why it is a fundamental science and technology issues. But we have to overcome different things, different new invention of materials, new invention of the process. So it takes time. So in terms of technology, at the initial level, I put level 4. You also in the sodium ion and condensed matter batteries, how do you view these technologies? The sodium ion is quite mature now. We already have a small production to the similar car makers. The only problem is that it's a little bit lower energy density compared with our phosphate today.
这就是为什么人们必须施加压力，把两种固体粉末压在一起，非常大的压力才能使它们起作用。但在实际应用中，怎么能获得如此大的压力呢？这就是为什么这个问题涉及到基础科学和技术问题。但我们必须克服不同的挑战，发明新材料，发明新工艺。所以这需要时间。从技术角度来看，初始阶段的技术水平是4级。在钠离子和凝聚态电池方面，你怎么看这些技术？钠离子电池现在已经相当成熟。我们已经实现了小规模生产，供应给类似的汽车制造商。唯一的问题是它的能量密度比我们现在使用的磷酸盐略低。
When our phosphate is cheaper, people tend to select the ion phosphate a lot of the sodium ion. But we have developed in the second generation of sodium ion, which can be very good compared with the first generation. So we believe it would be a 20% to 30% of the placement of the phosphory in a smaller car on a shorter range of the cars at an initial stage. That's a condensed matter battery. I'm proud of that because it is very good in the Ewoto application. It's very expensive today. And we are working hard on that, trying to make it maybe two times compared to today or 1.5 times. So we can use this battery to the very high end car, which needs energy density for the speed and the higher range.
当我们的磷酸盐更便宜时，人们往往会选择磷酸盐离子而不是钠离子。但是，我们已经开发出第二代钠离子，相较于第一代有了很大的改进。因此，我们相信在初期阶段，这种电池可以在短距离小型汽车中替代20%到30%的磷酸盐。这是一种凝聚态电池。我对此感到自豪，因为它在Ewoto应用中表现非常出色。虽然目前这种电池价格很贵，但我们正在努力降低成本，希望能够达到现价的两倍或者1.5倍。因此，我们可以将这种电池用于需要高能量密度以提高速度和续航的高端汽车。
When you look at your process and so on, what's the key to your successful supply chain? I mean, you, for instance, all on your own lithium mine, right? What are your advantages in when you look at your supply chain? Usually people have to look at the supply chain by the applications. For example, several years ago, people said, wow, nickel, cobwe is very important because the battery will go into big applications. That's why you need to have in West in nickel, especially in cobwe mining.
当你审视自己的流程等方面时，你们成功的供应链的关键是什么？我的意思是，比如说，你们自己拥有一个锂矿，对吧？当你们观察自己供应链的时候，你们的优势是什么？通常人们需要根据具体应用来审视供应链。例如，几年前人们认为镍、钴非常重要，因为电池会用于大规模的应用。这就是为什么你们需要投资于镍，尤其是钴矿的原因。
But they don't understand that we can have making the structure change in the way to reduce the cobwe applications. So cobwe from 33% reduces to 3%. And also even now, we can remove the cobwe, then we use the iron phosphate, and the cobwe becomes zero. Nickel becomes zero. So not only the technology people who understand the trend of the development applications in the future, who to know, who to choose, what kind of mining is a good mining investment. That probably is our advantage. So we have to very carefully understand the advantage of the different materials, especially where the chemistry system, for a little bit of the winter, then we can judge.
但是他们不明白，我们可以通过改变结构来减少使用钴(WEB应用程序)。这样，钴的使用可以从33%减少到3%。而且，即使现在我们也能去除钴，我们可以使用磷酸铁，使钴含量降为零，镍也会降为零。所以，不仅是那些懂得未来发展应用趋势的技术人员，还需要知道如何选择和投资优质矿产，这可能是我们的优势。因此，我们必须非常仔细地了解不同材料的优势，特别是在化学系统中，这样我们才能做出判断。
And how do you benefit from this when you set up factories in Europe? We have two facilities in Europe, one is in Germany, now one is in Hungary. Now the supply chain, we established a supply chain gradually, now still majority from China. That's why, for example, in Norway, we definitely can work together because you have a very low cost of hydropowers. So we can make graph graphite together. So graphite is one of the most important is energy consumption.
当你在欧洲建立工厂时，这对你有什么好处呢？我们在欧洲有两个工厂，一个在德国，现在另一个在匈牙利。我们逐渐建立了供应链，目前大部分仍然来自中国。这就是为什么，比如说在挪威，我们肯定可以合作，因为你们的水电成本非常低。所以我们可以一起生产石墨。石墨是最重要的能源消耗之一。
The patient talk about energy storage, how do you see that market developing? Energy storage in my mind is similar, or maybe half, maybe half size of transportation. But energy storage is more difficult than transportation, because they need lasting 20-25 years. But many people think this is easier because they say this is a stationary pull-not-not move, yes or no. Number two is energy storage unit is a huge pack.
患者谈到能源存储，你是怎么看待这个市场的发展？在我看来，能源存储市场类似于交通运输市场，或者说规模可能是交通运输市场的一半。但能源存储要比交通运输更难，因为它们需要持续20-25年。尽管很多人认为这更容易，因为他们认为这是一个静止不动的系统，答案是既是也不是。其次，能源存储单元是一个巨大的装置。
For example, 1-kilowatt battery pack, whole system, it contains at least 1.5 million cells. You think about 1.5 million cells plus all the electronics, mechanical, thermal management put into the system and then processing this software, the whole 1-kilowatt battery's energy storage system contains maybe 9 million of the components, similar as the Boeing 787. So when you control your quality in one out of PPM, that means every day you have the product, you have the components and problems. You have the maintenance costs in the future and also degradation is the difference. Consistency is very, very difficult to control.
例如，一个1千瓦的电池组，整个系统包含至少150万个电池。你想想看，加上所有的电子元件、机械结构、热管理系统，然后再处理这些软件，整个1千瓦的电池储能系统可能包含大约900万个部件，这与波音787的情况类似。所以，当你控制质量到百万分之一的水平时，这意味着每天都有产品部件和问题出现。未来还会有维护成本，并且电池的性能退化也会有所不同。要保持一致性是非常困难的。
Let's try for the same thing, we want to put the battery manufacturing quality up to PBB and one different parts per billion. So three orders increase the quality level to fit for the usage of this energy storage. So it's difficult. Everyone, if you tell you it's good, 10 years later they have to pay a lot of money.
让我们试一试同样的目标，我们希望将电池制造的质量提高到每十亿件里只出问题一次。所以要把质量水平提高三个数量级，以适应这种能源储存的使用。这是很困难的。即使有人告诉你现在很好，十年后他们可能得花很多钱才能解决问题。
How much time do you spend on the corporate culture at CATL? What do you think defines the culture compared to other companies? In other cultures we have the vision, we try to be a very innovative technology company in the world, especially focus on renewable energy and try to do the excellent contribution to the human society in renewable energies. On the other hand we try to create a platform which helps individuals to fight, to grow their spiritual spirit and material wellbeing. Actually it's money. So we need to give them more star options and also help them to really fighting for the roles, especially innovations and also the confidence by themselves become a better man. The focus on renewable energy. So people believe very meaningful in this journey, especially working in CATL. Now it's one 15 million cars, 15 million cars in the world powered by CATL batteries. So think about that. You already helped to reduce a lot of carbon.
你在CATL花多少时间在公司文化上？你认为与其他公司相比，CATL的文化有什么不同？在其他文化中，我们有愿景，努力成为全球最具创新力的技术公司，特别是专注于可再生能源，并为人类社会在可再生能源方面做出卓越贡献。另一方面，我们努力创造一个平台，帮助个人奋斗，提升他们的精神和物质幸福，其实就是金钱。因此，我们需要给员工更多的股票期权，并且帮助他们真正为自己的角色努力，尤其是在创新方面，同时也增强他们的信心，成为更好的人。我们很重视可再生能源。因此，员工坚定地相信在这个过程中工作是非常有意义的，尤其是在CATL。现在，全球有1,500万辆汽车使用CATL的电池。想想看，你已经帮助减少了大量的碳排放。
On the other hand we are keeping doing these innovations to help the climate change and also sustainability for humans development. We try to gain the same vision and also we are using also Chinese culture, we call it refine.
另一方面，我们不断进行这些创新，以帮助应对气候变化，并促进人类可持续发展。我们努力达成共同的愿景，同时也融入了中国文化，我们称之为"精益求精"。
So everyone has to refine themselves and enable others, then strive and innovation. So we always have how to say successfully introduce a Chinese traditional thinking of refine, enable and strive innovation. And Robin how are you still trying to refine the way you work? For me there is two ways. One is my philosophy. I don't want to be the rich guy, the rich guy or whatever, it doesn't mean it. So I want to share this rich or wealthy to many people, to try to create a good society, especially for sustainability. This is the number one refine for my view of my wealthy.
所以每个人都需要自我完善并帮助他人，然后努力创新。我们一直在成功地引入一种中国传统思维，即完善自己，赋能他人，并努力创新。Robin，你是如何继续改进你的工作的？
对我来说，有两种方式。第一是我的理念。我不想成为那种有钱的人，有钱什么的对我来说并不重要。我希望把这种财富分享给更多的人，努力创造一个好的社会，尤其是在可持续发展方面。从我的角度来看，这是我对财富的首要完善目标。
The question is I need to refine myself to be more strong body. Otherwise it's always tired, you cannot find the passion is very important, otherwise it can last for longer. The third thing I am now trying very hard to find the successes. So this is three things in my mind now, it's like a more top priority.
问题是我需要让我自己变得更强壮。否则总是会感到疲倦，这样你就找不到热情，这非常重要。还有一点是，如果身体不强壮，这种疲倦会持续更久。第三件事是我现在在非常努力寻找成功。所以这三件事是我现在脑子里的优先事项。
So Robin I believe you and I we share one thing in common, we both sleep a bit in the middle of the day, we take a little nap in the office. Yes, this is a long time usually we sleep maybe 30 minutes in office.
所以罗宾，我相信你和我有一个共同点，我们俩都会在白天打个盹，在办公室小睡一会儿。是的，我们通常在办公室睡个30分钟左右。
When during the day do you sleep? 1pm, something like that, start sleeping maybe 30 minutes, it's good enough to recover. And what does that do to you? You become more energetic, maybe the body is physically needed. How long do you work in the evening? I work until a 12 o'clock, around that, until 30. Because usually the whole day is working, sleeping, it's not really an email you have to lessen some information message from overseas. Especially running international companies, you have information across the 24 hours across the clock, but you have to pick up the right things.
你一天中什么时候睡觉？我在下午1点左右睡，大概睡30分钟，这样就足够恢复精力了。这样对你有什么影响呢？你会变得更有活力，身体可能确实需要休息。你晚上工作到几点？我工作到12点左右，大概到12:30。因为平时一整天都在工作、睡觉，不过有时需要处理一些来自国外的信息，尤其是运营国际公司时，信息是全天候的，但是你必须选取重要的信息来处理。
And also, yeah, I'm happy to do that. Basically no, not much problem, but I need to do exercise, my daughter told me more. You grew up in rural China, right? In India. Yes.
好的，是的，我很乐意做这件事。基本上没什么问题，但我需要多运动，我女儿说我应该多锻炼。你是在中国农村长大的，对吧？在印度。对的。
What do you think that has done to you as a person to come from a rural place, move in being very successful? How has it helped in your business? We have very difficult economics and my hometown is very poor. So for me, in day one, I think we have confidence because we believe we can overcome all the difficulties once we have a chance.
你认为从乡村出来并取得巨大的成功，这对你作为一个人有什么影响？这对你的生意有什么帮助？我们家乡的经济很困难，非常贫穷。所以对我来说，从第一天开始，我就有信心，因为我相信一旦有机会，我们能够克服所有困难。
Number two is we have a very strong mind. We are not easy to be beat anywhere because we have experience. Number three is we are not too much looking at the wealthy because we have experienced so poor and we have no problem on that. So we say that if people are almost told me, they're loving, why don't you enjoy your life? You can buy a yard.
第二，我们有非常强大的心理素质。由于经验丰富，我们不容易在任何地方被击败。第三，我们不会过于关注财富，因为我们曾经非常贫穷，对此没有问题。所以我们常说，如果有人对我说，他们很喜欢并问我为什么不享受生活呢？你可以买一个庭院呀。
For me, there is not much joy. We have to overcome the difficulties to do something great to support people, poor people, and also support the least renewable energy in the world. You will be very happy. So usually I like to invest the manufacturing plan in a related poor area. What kind of projects do you support? My donation is usually go to this very poor children.
对我来说，生活中并没有太多的欢乐。我们必须克服困难，做一些伟大的事情来帮助人们，特别是贫困的人们，同时也支持世界上最少的可再生能源。你将会非常高兴。所以我通常喜欢在贫困地区投资制造计划。你支持什么类型的项目？我的捐款通常用于帮助非常贫困的儿童。
We donate some money for them to have some people to care, just talk, touch, or play together. So I joined some international program for the children. I believe if we can see it, it can invest the manufacturing plan in some poor area. So their family no need to move out to come out to the big city to work, to leave the children in the hometown.
我们捐钱给他们，请一些人来照顾孩子们，和他们聊天、触摸或者一起玩耍。所以我参与了一些针对孩子的国际项目。我相信，如果我们能够看到这些项目的成效，就能在一些贫困地区投资建厂。这样，他们的父母就不需要搬到大城市工作，不需要离开孩子们。
So that's why we invest the manufacturing place in Guizhou and everything in the Hernan, all these areas to help them. So such kind of things for me is much happy and maybe more strong in the rural area. When you meet young Chinese people, what advice do you give them? My advice is be patient, strife, because you have your chance.
所以这就是为什么我们在贵州投资了制造基地，并且在河南等地开展了一切业务来帮助他们。这样的事情让我很高兴，也许也会使这些农村地区变得更强大。当你遇到中国的年轻人时，你会给他们什么建议？我的建议是要有耐心，努力奋斗，因为你们也有机会。
If you were to give advice to young people in Europe and the US, what would you tell them? I think it's similar. Usually the Chinese kids have want to become rich very fast. So be patient, but a strife, everyone has a chance, I believe.
如果要给欧洲和美国的年轻人提建议，你会告诉他们什么？我认为情况相似。通常，中国的孩子都希望快速致富。所以，要有耐心，同时要努力奋斗，我相信每个人都有机会。
Robin, it's been tremendous talking to you. It's incredible what you have achieved. And I have to say, I am pretty happy. I'm not your competitor. Thanks, Amelia.
罗宾，跟你谈话真是太棒了。你取得的成就真是令人惊叹。我必须说，我很庆幸自己不是你的竞争对手。谢谢你，阿梅利亚。