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#193 Dr. Jim Loehr: Change the Stories You Tell Yourself

发布时间 2024-04-30 15:10:00    来源

摘要

What if reaching the next level of success wasn't determined by another skill, degree, or course but by something that changed on the inside? That's what Dr. Jim Loehr believes, and in this episode, he reveals everything he knows about mental toughness and winning the mind game. Shane and Loehr discuss the radical importance of the stories you tell yourself—including how they can damage your kids—and how to change the negative stories you believe. Loehr also shares the best reflection questions to ask yourself to reveal personal blindspots, the importance of rituals for calming anxiety and performing under pressure, and how the best in the world use their recovery time effectively. Dr. Jim Loehr is a world-renowned performance psychologist and author of 16 books. From his more than 30 years of experience and applied research, Dr. Loehr believes the single most important factor in successful achievement, personal fulfillment, and life satisfaction is the strength of one’s character. Dr. Loehr possesses a masters and doctorate in psychology and is a full member of the American Psychological Association. Watch the episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/theknowledgeproject/videos Newsletter - I share timeless insights and ideas you can use at work and home. Join over 600k others every Sunday and subscribe to Brain Food. Try it: https://fs.blog/newsletter/ My Book! Clear Thinking: Turning Ordinary Moments into Extraordinary Results is out now - https://fs.blog/clear/  Follow me: https://beacons.ai/shaneparrish Join our membership: https://fs.blog/membership/ Sponsor: Protekt: Simple solutions to support healthy routines. Enter the code "Knowledge" at checkout to receive 30% off your order. https://protekt.com/knowledge   (00:00) Intro (03:20) Parenting and storytelling (06:15) How to determine whether or not the stories are limiting or enabling you (08:41) What the stories world-class performers tell themselves (15:02) How to change the stories you tell yourself (23:26) Questions to journal about (26:16) Private voices vs. public voices (and how they impact your kids) (31:32) How to help your friends change their stories (37:30) How to better come alongside your kids to prevent destructive behavior (44:48) - (45:06) What Loehr knows about high performers that others miss (53:12) On time and energy (01:06:26) Conquering the "between point" ritual (01:11:50) On rituals vs. habits (01:15:54) How to increase your mental toughness (01:23:51) On success    

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中英文字稿  

I'm very curious and I will be till my last breath. That's the gift. Teaching people to be excited about what you could become and what you might really find great joy in mastering. If you can do that as a teacher, as a parent, that is a forever gift that will never stop giving.
我非常好奇，并且这种好奇心会一直伴随到我生命的最后一刻。这是一份礼物。教会人们对自己的潜力感到兴奋，并找出自己真正热爱并能精通的事物。如果你能作为老师或家长做到这一点，这将是一份永远不会停止馈赠的礼物。

Welcome to The Knowledge Project, a podcast about mastering the best of what other people have already figured out, so you can apply their insights to your life. I'm your host, Shane Parrish.
欢迎来到知识工程，一个探讨他人智慧结晶的播客，让你能将他们的洞见应用到自己的生活中。 我是你的主持人，Shane Parrish。

Every Sunday, I send out the Brain Food newsletter to over 600,000 people. It's considered noise-canceling headphones for the internet, and it's full of timeless wisdom you can actually apply to your life and work today. Sign up for free at FS.blog.newsletter.
每个星期天，我都会给超过60万读者发送《头脑营养》通讯。这份通讯就像是互联网的降噪耳机，里面满是你今天就能在生活和工作中应用的智慧。现在就去FS.blog.newsletter免费订阅吧。

If you're listening to this, you're missing out. If you'd like access to the podcast before public release, special episodes that don't appear anywhere else, hand-edited transcripts, or you just want to support the show you love, you can join at FS.blog.com. Check out the show notes for a link.
如果你正在收听这个，那说明你错过了一些好东西。如果你想在公众发布之前访问播客，想获得独家特别节目，或是手工编辑的文字稿，或者你只是想支持你喜欢的节目，你可以加入FS.blog.com。具体链接请查看节目说明。

Today, my guest is Dr. Jim Lair, who's a world-renowned performance psychologist, co-founder of the Human Performance Institute, and author of more books than I can count, including one that really impacted me a while ago, called The Power of Full Engagement. Dr. Lair believes the single most important factor and successful achievement, personal fulfillment, and life satisfaction is the strength of our character.
今天，我的嘉宾是Jim Lair博士，他是一位世界知名的表现心理学家，联合创立了人类表现研究所，并且著有众多书籍，其中一本《全情投入的力量》让我印象深刻。Lair博士认为，成功、个人成就和生活满意度的最重要因素是我们的品格力量。

I wanted to talk to Jim because his belief in matching energy and time had a fundamental impact on how I spend my time and how I allocate my days. In this episode, we talk a lot about the little voice inside our head, the one narrating life for us, the one writing the story.
我想和吉姆谈谈，因为他关于能量和时间匹配的信念对我如何安排时间和分配每天的活动产生了深远的影响。在这一集中，我们详细讨论了脑海中的那个小声音，它为我们叙述生活，并为我们书写故事。

We explore when it powers us, when it limits us, how we can recognize when it's serving us, when it's not, how to edit it, how what we say affects our kids' narrative, that they are telling themselves, and the difference between what the best in the world tell themselves and other people.
我们探讨它在什么时候给我们带来力量，什么时候限制了我们，如何辨别它什么时候对我们有利，什么时候不利，如何调整它，以及我们说的话如何影响孩子们的自我叙述，还有世界上最优秀的人和普通人之间的自我对话有什么不同。

We also explore the power of journaling, matching time and energy, decision-making, and health foundations. It's time to listen and learn.
我们还探讨了写日记的力量、如何匹配时间和精力、决策和健康基础。现在是时候倾听和学习了。

The Knowledge Project is sponsored by Protech. Protech believes that when you are your best self, you are of the most service to others. Try hydration immediately upon waking before your first cup of coffee and before, during, or after your workout. Try rest one hour before bed and get the best sleep of your life. Improve your hydration and your sleep and become the best version of yourself. Get 30% off your order at protec.com slash knowledge. That's p-r-o-t-e-k-t dot com slash knowledge. Or use code knowledge at the checkout for 30% off.
《知识项目》由Protech赞助。Protech坚信，当你能够展现最好的自己时，你就能更好地服务他人。建议你一醒来就先补充水分，然后再喝第一杯咖啡；在锻炼前、锻炼中或锻炼后也要注意补水。睡前一个小时尽量放松自己，获得优质睡眠。改善你的水分摄入和睡眠质量，成为最好的自己。访问protek.com/knowledge即可享受订单七折优惠。网址是p-r-o-t-e-k-t点com斜杠knowledge。结账时使用代码knowledge也可获得七折优惠。

Let's start with how we tell stories about ourselves to ourselves. We tell stories around work, family, health, happiness, and friendship. And the story that we tell ourselves in reality are often different. Sometimes our stories empower us and sometimes they limit us.
让我们从我们如何向自己讲述自己的故事开始说起。我们会围绕工作、家庭、健康、幸福和友情来讲述故事。而我们在现实中对自己讲述的故事往往是不同的。有时候，这些故事会激励我们，但有时候它们也会限制我们。

And I'm wondering if maybe we could explore a little bit about the story you used to tell yourself as a father. That's an interesting question. I have three sons. And it wasn't until I became heavily involved in the field of psychology and mental health and performance psychology that I began to realize that just about everything we say publicly and privately in our head is a story.
我想知道，我们是否可以探讨一下你过去作为父亲对自己的那种叙述。这是个有趣的问题。我有三个儿子。直到我深入心理学、心理健康和绩效心理学领域后，我才开始意识到，我们在公开场合和内心中所说的几乎所有内容，都是一种叙述。

We don't have direct contact with the real world. We have all this data streaming into our five-sense of reportals. And then our big neural processor has to make sense out of that. And there's a preference for making sense in terms of what's already been loaded in.
我们没有直接接触现实世界。我们所有的信息都是通过五种感官传入的。然后，我们的大脑神经处理器需要理解这些信息。而且，我们的大脑更倾向于用已经存储的信息来理解这些新信息。

So if you get information that might be somehow contradictory to what's in there, you tend to just purge it. You tend not to listen or you tend not to incorporate it. And the more I began to understand this and as a father, you know, I wish I had understood it much earlier in my life.
所以，如果你得到的信息与已有的内容有些矛盾，你往往会直接忽略它。你可能不会去听，也不会去吸收它。随着我越来越了解这一点，作为一个父亲，我真希望自己能在更早的时候明白这些道理。

I began to realize that the way I spoke to my three sons, my public voice became a major factor in the way their private voice would speak to them as they grew older. When I realized that, I stopped on a dime because I didn't want something that I might have said haphazardly. You know, I said something off the cuff. You know, it was actually not aligned with my values or who I really wanted them to think of themselves as. And you kind of think, well, they don't really hear it, but our brains are always listening. And there are some people that get direct access into command center, what I call command central, and a father, at least for a period of time, and the mother have direct entry into the sacred space where most of the meaning is created in our storytelling. If as a father, I say to my sons, you know, I don't know what's the matter with you. You're always, you're always screwing things up. I really wonder if I'd have your opportunities, I would have been a star. And you say these things and you don't think they're really going to have much of an effect. You're trying to motivate them. But the more we have learned about the power of this inner voice in directing traffic, your inner voice pretty much as we've learned it determines your destiny. So I am every time I speak to my sons, every time I speak to my grandsons, I'm very careful that is this what I want them to say to themselves when they start maturing in life? That was a game changer for me big time.
我开始意识到，我对三个儿子的说话方式，即我在公开场合的声音，成了他们在长大后对自己内心声音的主要影响。当我意识到这一点时，我立刻停止了随意说话。你知道，我有时候会脱口而出一些话，这些话其实不符合我的价值观，也不是我希望他们对自己的看法。你可能觉得他们不会真的听进去，但实际上我们的思维总是在听。有些人能直接进入我们的“指挥中心”，而父母至少在一段时间里有权进入这个创造意义的神圣空间。 如果作为父亲，我对儿子们说：“我真不知道你们是怎么回事，你们总是搞砸事情。如果我是你们，凭这些机会我早就成名了。”你说这些话时，可能以为没什么大影响，是在激励他们。但随着我们对内心声音的理解加深，这种内在声音实际上决定了他们的命运。而每当我跟儿子们或孙子们说话时，我都会非常小心，因为我要确保自己说的话是他们在成长过程中对自己说的那种话。这对我来说，是个巨大的改变。

What questions should we be asking ourselves to better understand if the story we're telling ourselves is empowering or limiting us? Again, it's there's this level of awareness and I have tried in my career to raise the curtain so that people understand that there's something going on that, you know, maybe was purely automatic and maybe the voice you got, you never really intentionally acquired. But suddenly you have this critic inside yourself or the storyteller that we all have. And you have to stop and reflect this this I have rules of storytelling. They're not really rules. They're guidelines. And the first thing is the rule has to be true. Is this aligned with reality? So the first awareness in my making stuff up here that just is convenient for the moment to maybe make me feel better or is this aligned with really objective reality? That's the first kind of principle of really good storytelling. Another one is, is this storage that I'm telling myself, is it aligned with the best part of me? With who I really want to be in life, my values, my sense of purpose?
我们应该问自己哪些问题，以更好地理解我们对自己讲述的故事是激励我们的还是限制我们的？首先，需要有一定的意识。我在职业生涯中一直试图揭开一层面纱，让人们明白可能有些事情是完全自动发生的，也许你内心的声音从未真正经过刻意选择。但突然之间，你发现自己内心有一个批评者或叙述者，每个人都有这样的存在。你必须停下来反思。我有一些关于讲故事的规则，它们其实并不是严格的规则，更像是指导方针。首先，故事必须是真实的，它需要与现实对齐。因此，第一个意识是，我是不是在编造一些东西，只是为了让我暂时感觉好一点还是这个故事真的符合客观现实？这是讲述好故事的第一个原则。另一个原则是，我讲述的这个故事是否符合我内心最好的那一部分，是否符合我真正想成为的人、我的价值观和我的人生目标？

Does this story take me where I want to go in life? Does it help me feel more optimistic and hopeful about my future? Or does it in fact give me a sense that, you know, I'm not that capable, world is tough. I probably can't make it. Why am I doing this? This is stupid. And so I really want people to have this kind of automatic sensor before you allow these stories to take form that you intentionally purposefully orchestrate them so that these stories are aligned with the best part of you. And if they were made known publicly to all the people that you know or put on a jumbo Tron, you would be proud of the way you have been coaching yourself, talking to yourself about what's the storm that you're in or about the future that you're crafting.
这个故事是否带我走向我想要的人生方向？它是否帮我对未来感到更乐观和充满希望？还是反而让我觉得自己不够能力，世界很残酷，我可能无法成功，甚至质疑自己为何要这么做，觉得这很愚蠢。因此，我真的希望人们在这些故事成形之前，有一种自动感应器，能够有意图、有目的地策划这些故事，确保它们与自己最好的部分一致。如果这些故事公之于众，展示给所有认识的人，或在大屏幕上播放，你会因为自己是这样给自己加油打气、谈论自己所面临的风暴或未来的规划而感到自豪。

I'm very hopeful that the more we can bring an awareness to people's lives. I have changed so many people's thinking about so many things in sport and outside of it. And it's basically the question you ask, which is how do we make our stories really, really help us navigate better in life? You work with a lot of world-class performers. Is there a difference between the story they're telling themselves and the story that the rest of us tell ourselves? What's so interesting is that when they started, often they just they had a love affair with whatever sport they were involved in. They never had any dreams or they just you know they just thought these are people who have become number one in the world. I've had 17 people that have become number one in the world.
我非常有信心能通过提高人们的意识来帮助他们的生活。我已经改变了很多人对许多事情的看法，不仅仅是在运动中，还有其他方面。这其实就是你问的问题：我们如何让自己的故事更好地帮助我们在生活中寻找到方向？你与许多世界级选手共事，他们内心的故事与我们普通人内心的故事有何不同？有趣的是，当他们刚开始时，往往只是因为热爱所从事的运动，并没有什么远大的梦想。他们只不过是认为这些人最终成为了世界第一。我曾经帮助过17个人成为世界第一。

And when they look back, they're so astonished because they never dreamed this was ever going to happen. They dreamed of being maybe a great tennis player golfer, speed skater, but they never dreamed they would have this kind of accumulated success over so many years. But as they get more success, the possibilities begin to open up in their minds about what they can and can't do. And all I can tell you is that the sense of joy in the pursuit and to be able to have parents who enable it not force you, but actually give the opportunity to explore this in your own way and then be surrounded by great coaches who I had a great coach in the early part of my athletic career in basketball. And he saw something in me that I never saw in myself coach guy Gibbs in basketball.
当他们回顾过去时，他们感到非常惊讶，因为他们从未想过会发生这样的事情。他们也许梦想过成为一个伟大的网球选手、高尔夫球手或速度滑冰选手，但他们从未梦想到会在多年中积累如此多的成功。然而，随着他们获得更多的成功，关于他们能做什么和不能做什么的可能性开始在他们心中打开。我只能告诉你，在追求梦想的过程中所感受到的快乐，以及拥有能够支持你、而不是强迫你的父母，让你有机会以自己的方式去探索，这种感觉是多么的美好。我在早期的篮球运动生涯中有一位伟大的教练，他在我身上看到了我自己从未发现的东西，这位教练是篮球界的盖伊·吉布斯。

And he came into my life at a very important time. I was kind of struggling with confidence and somehow this guy that I really felt was an extraordinary human being. And that's the way we look at most of our coaches. I mean, coaches have a special place in our lives. He really just took me aside and said, listen, there you can be really good. And I'm going to push you and tell you get there. And I want you, I believe in you more than you believe in yourself. I will never forget it. I've written many books. He's now passed away, unfortunately. But a lot of my books, I credit him for coming into my life at an important point. And we never know when something that we say or do is going to impact someone in a powerful way.
他在我生活中进入的时间非常重要。当时我有点信心不足，而我觉得他是一个非凡的人。这就是我们看待大多数教练的方式。我是说，教练在我们的生活中有着特殊的地位。他真的把我拉到一边，对我说：“听着，你可以变得非常优秀。我会推动你，直到你达到目标。我相信你比你自己还多。” 我永远不会忘记这些话。我写了很多书，他已经不幸去世了，但我的很多书都归功于他在我生命中那个重要时刻的到来。我们永远不知道我们说的或做的某些事情何时会以强大的方式影响他人。

But most of the number ones and really high success athletes that I worked with never, never really dreamed when they have to pinch themselves when they realize, I'm number one in the world now, what the world. But as they pursued a love affair with their sport, it's very hard if you're forced to become number one in the world with a parent hanging over your head, or it just doesn't last. It's just, it's really unfortunate. And I've been there many times. It's not like you're starting out saying, I want to be number one in the world, and you really believe it. And you started, you're just beginning with the sport.
但是，我合作过的大多数冠军和真正成功的运动员，他们从未真正梦想过自己会成为世界第一。当他们意识到自己现在是世界第一时，他们甚至需要掐自己一下。但是，他们对这项运动的热爱支撑着他们一路走来。如果是被迫成为世界第一，比如家长在后面逼迫着，那就非常困难，甚至也不会长久。这真的很不幸，我见过很多次。并不是说你一开始就想着要成为世界第一，并且真正相信自己能做到，你只是刚开始接触这项运动。

There are a few that said they kind of knew Novak Djokovic, who's probably the greatest tennis player, is the greatest tennis player of all time. One of his early coaches, her name was Yelena, said of all the young athletes that she had trained as a young little boy, she told him that he had the greatest potential that anyone that he had ever seen. And I think that kind of changed his perception of himself. Now, what if she had told him that, and he really didn't have all that potential? You know, he would have continued to push as long as he had a love affair with the sport and really loved getting better and learning. If he didn't become number one in the world, if he never made a professional career out of it, if the message is right, use this sport to help you grow up and become a better human being.
有一些人说他们有点认识诺瓦克·德约科维奇，他可能是有史以来最伟大的网球选手。他的一位早期教练，名叫叶莲娜，说她曾经训练过许多年轻运动员，德约科维奇小时候，她就告诉他，他拥有她见过的最大的潜力。我认为这改变了他对自己的看法。现在，假设她告诉他这个时，他其实并没有那么大的潜力呢？你知道吗，他可能仍然会继续努力，只要他热爱这项运动、热爱进步和学习。即使他没有成为世界第一，即使他从未能成为职业选手，如果这个信息是正确的，那就是：利用这项运动来帮助你成长，成为更好的人。

And if you become number one in the world and doing it, you know, no one loses. I don't care how far you go. I try to send that message over and over again. But when you start out, it's pretty hard to believe you're going to be number one. If it is, it's probably just you're blown smoke into the world. That's a whole testament. But you're trying to lift yourself up and maybe give you a hope that someday you might be inspired to be like Novak Djokovic or the greatest athletes of all time in their sports. But for me, I have to say that I never thought I would end up in the character space.
如果你成为了世界第一，而且你知道，这样做的话，没有人会失去什么。我不在乎你能走多远。我不断地尝试传递这个信息。但是在刚开始的时候，很难相信你会成为第一。如果你这么想，那可能只是自我安慰的一种方式。但这也证明了你的决心。也许你试图鼓励自己，并给自己希望，希望有一天你会受到启发，像诺瓦克·德约科维奇或其他体育界的顶尖运动员一样。但对我来说，我必须说，我从来没有想到我会最终进入这个角色领域。

I'm a performance psychologist. People come to me because they want to win. And I wrote most of my early books on mental toughness. And it was all about how do you get so strong mentally and emotionally that you can act outcompete anybody because the muscles between your ears are stronger than they'll ever have. You have skills that they maybe don't have between their ears. And that's what I specialized in for most of my career. But then I began to realize something very different. And I began to notice that the careers of those who really developed these incredible what I call character strengths, be they performance or really moral and ethical character strengths.
我是一个表现心理学家。人们来找我是因为他们想要赢。我早期的大部分书籍都是关于心理韧性，讨论如何在精神和情绪上变得非常强大，以至于能超越任何人，因为你大脑中的“肌肉”比他们的更强大。你具有他们可能没有的心理技能，这就是我职业生涯的大部分时间里所专注的领域。然而，我后来开始意识到一些非常不同的事情。我注意到，那些真正发展出令人称奇的我称之为“性格优势”的人，不论是表现上的还是道德和伦理上的，这些人的职业生涯与众不同。

I began to realize that more important than what you achieve is who you become is a consequence of the chase. That you're becoming a person, some kind of person, either brutal, warm, loving, caring, focused, dedicated, kind. You have integrity, you're honest, you're grateful. And what I began to see is that people who developed these moral and ethical skills from their coaches and parents, along with the skills of the sport, they were the true winners. And they were much more likely to sustain the success because everyone wanted them to succeed.
我开始意识到，比起你取得了什么成就，更重要的是你在追求过程中成为了什么样的人。你正在变成某种人，可能是残酷的、温暖的、有爱的、关心别人的、专注的、敬业的、善良的。你有诚信、诚实、感恩。而我开始看到的是，那些从教练和父母那里学到道德和伦理技能的人，除了运动技能，他们才是真正的赢家。而且他们更有可能保持成功，因为每个人都希望他们成功。

So I don't, you know, I still have to wake up and think, how did I end up in the character space? I had nothing in my training whatsoever to take me there. But I'm a data guy. And we had by the time we left the human performance Institute
所以，我还是会想，我是怎么进入角色领域的？我的培训中根本没有任何与此相关的内容。但我是个数据专家。当我们离开人体性能研究所时，已经收集了很多数据。

, which a company I co-founded, over 400,000 people go through. And it was a massive dataset. And I would look at this, and I love data trends. And we were so fortunate to have all these extraordinary people come through. And that's where it led me. So I started going there. And I'm still a little bit shocked that I ended up in that space. But as more important to me than what you achieve is the way in which you achieved it, and who you became as a consequence of the chase. That's a powerful message. When we recognize our stories need editing. Now what? How do we change them? That is another great question chain.
我共同创办了一家公司，有超过40万人通过了我们的服务。这是一个庞大的数据集。我会查看这些数据，因为我喜欢数据趋势。我们很幸运地迎接了这么多杰出的人才，这也引导了我的方向。所以我就开始往那个方向发展。让我有点惊讶的是，我最终竟然进入了那个领域。但对我来说，比起你取得了什么成就，更重要的是你是如何取得这些成就的，以及在这个追逐过程中你成为什么样的人。这是一个强有力的信息。当我们认识到我们的故事需要修改时，那接下来呢？我们该如何改变它们？这是另一个很好的问题链。

So I wrote a book and it was called The Power of Story. And the subtitle was, your story becomes your destiny. And every book I've written, I've written 19 books, and each one of them represents another insight that I never had before. If it's new to me, maybe it would be new to other people as well. Maybe I'm just a slow learner. I began to realize that the stories we tell ourselves and the stories we tell others either enable us to fulfill and to have a great life or actually take us in tragic directions.
我写了一本书，书名叫《故事的力量》。副标题是“你的故事决定你的命运”。我已经写了19本书，每一本书都代表了一个我之前从未有过的新见解。如果对我来说是新的，也许对其他人来说也会是新的。也许我只是一个学习进度比较慢的人。我开始意识到，我们讲给自己和别人听的故事，要么能让我们过上美好生活，要么可能让我们走向悲惨的境地。

And I've seen this over and over again. And more important again, than what happens to us in life is the story we craft around what happens to us. And if we realize that our story is faulty, that we're making stuff up this literally not helping us really do not the story elements do not fit what I would say the principles, the guidelines of good storytelling, then you've got to edit that story just as you suggested. And I again, this will probably surprise many of the folks who are listening, but we tried everything.
我一遍又一遍地见证过这个事情。更重要的是，相较于生活中发生的这些事情，我们如何讲述自己的故事才是关键。如果我们意识到自己的故事有错误，我们在编造一些实际上对我们没有帮助的内容，这些内容不符合优秀故事的原则和指导方针，那么我们就必须像你建议的那样，对这个故事进行修改。再次强调，我知道这可能会让很多听众感到惊讶，但我们已经尝试过各种方法了。

And we had a lot of very smart people. It's some of the smartest people. I mean, our faculty was one of the most brilliant faculties I think we'll ever ever assemble. And we tried visualization. We tried very interesting ways of kind of changing the way people actually process thinking and thought over a period of time over and again. And what we finally concluded was that your hand, your handwriting probably had the greatest impact on neurological functioning on the way in which these neural networks formed and were changed, than anything else we could do.
我们有很多非常聪明的人。可以说，他们是最聪明的人之一。我认为我们的教师团队是我们能汇集到的最杰出团队之一。我们尝试了可视化，尝试了各种有趣的方法，希望从长远来看改变人们处理思维和思想的方式。最终我们得出的结论是，你的手写字可能对神经功能、神经网络的形成和变化的影响最大，比我们能做的其他事情都要大。

If I were to ask you if you needed to remember something, what would be the most likely thing you would do to remember you'd probably write it down. Well, we call it executive functioning, prefrontal cortex and cortex. There's something that's happening in moving the muscles of your hand that actually create a greater imprint and are much more likely to be sustained. There's a brilliant researcher by the name of James Pennebaker. He's at the University of Texas. And I mean, it's incredible, the kind of success on the protocols he's had in helping people overcome trauma with their hand with writing, with writing skills.
如果我要问你是否需要记住一些事情，你最可能的做法是什么？你大概会把它写下来。我们称这种行为为执行功能，它涉及前额皮质和大脑皮层。当你动手写字时，这个过程实际上会在你的大脑中留下更深的印记，更可能被长时间记住。有一位杰出的研究员，名字叫詹姆斯·彭纳贝克，他在德克萨斯大学工作。他的研究成果非常了不起，特别是在通过书写技巧帮助人们克服创伤方面，他取得了巨大的成功。

But we found that creating this story that works for you with your hand and rewriting it several times from memory and then reading it and even using the voice memo on your phone where you actually tell yourself over the phone, your voice memo capability, and then you play it back and you listen to yourself coaching you. It's not having someone from the outside coaching you with their public voice. You are taking your private voice and making it public and now listening to it and trying to get a new way of having these neuro pathways in your brain transfer information. And eventually over time, the story begins to change.
但我们发现，通过手写的方式创建一个适合你自己的故事，并从记忆中重写几次，然后再阅读它，甚至利用手机里的语音备忘录，自己对着手机讲述这个故事，然后播放听自己讲述。这样做不是让外界的人用他们的声音来指导你，而是你把自己的内在声音变为外在的声音，再去听它，并尝试让大脑中的神经通路以新的方式传递信息。随着时间的推移，这个故事就会开始发生变化。

So it might be, I hate putting, I've never been a good putter in sport. And if I could just be a great putter, I would be on the PGA Tour List and one of the top guys or women. But and then the story you tell yourself is I just don't seem to have the ability to be a good putter. I've always had trouble putting and I think this is my greatest never. So I say that you can't get there with that story. That story is so limiting.
所以这可能是，我讨厌推杆，我在这个运动项目上从来没有推杆推得很好。如果我能成为一个优秀的推杆手，我就可以进入PGA巡回赛名单，成为顶尖选手之一。不论男女。但是你告诉自己的故事却是：我似乎没有成为一个好推杆手的天赋，我一直在推杆上有困难，我认为这可能是我最大的障碍。所以我说，你靠这种说法是无法实现那样的目标的。这种自我限定的说法实在是太局限了。

Here's the story that works for you. At this point in my life, the truth is if you look at my stats and one of the poor putters on the PGA Tour or the LPGA Tour, that's true. But I'm an athlete and I have to tell you one day I'm going to become one of the best putters, if not the best putter, on tour. And I'll tell you why, because I am going to devote more energy, more effort. I'm going to make this the most important part of my game. And I'm going to love doing it. And every time I see a green, I'm going to light up and say, ah, fantastic. I have another chance to practice my putting and to get it right. And if I miss a putter, three footer for a birdie, I'll simply say, thank God I got that out of my system. Now I'm going to get better. And so you develop a running kind of narrative with yourself that builds confidence, builds belief, builds this, and you start by crafting the perfect story with your hand.
以下是一个适合你的故事。如今在我生命的这个阶段，事实是，如果你看我的数据，会发现我在PGA巡回赛或LPGA巡回赛上是个糟糕的推杆手，这是真的。但我是个运动员，我必须告诉你，总有一天我会成为巡回赛上最好的推杆手之一，甚至是最好的。我要告诉你为什么，因为我将投入更多的精力和努力。我会把推杆放在我的比赛中最重要的位置，而且我会热爱这样做。每次我看到果岭，我都会兴奋地说，太好了，又有机会练习我的推杆，并把它做好了。如果我错过了一个三英尺的推杆，错失了小鸟球的机会，我会简单地说，感谢上帝，我已经把这个失误排除在外了。现在我要变得更好了。所以，你会与自己形成一种持续的内心对话，建立信心，建立信念，而这一切都是从你手中塑造完美的故事开始的。

And the more your hand works, and it actually what we found, James Pinabaker hasn't found this though. But with our data collection, we found that it's more powerful to do it by hand than it is on a computer. And so we have everybody do it, you can print it, or you can cursive writing, however you want to do it. But we prefer that you do it by hand. And each new iteration, you do from memory. And then you compare with the last one. And then those that you're putting new energy into this network where stories are told around putting or around your marriage or around your intelligence, your confidence. And that's what we've done over the years. We've had so many astonishing successes. I had no idea any of this was going to surface. It all took years of practice and data collection to refine it.
而且你越是用手写，这一点是我们发现的，虽然詹姆斯·皮纳贝克还没有发现。但根据我们的数据收集，我们发现用手写比用电脑更强大。因此，我们要求每个人都用手写，你可以用打印体，也可以用草书写，不管你用哪种方式，但我们更推荐手写。每次新的迭代，都要根据记忆来写，然后与上次的进行比较。这样，你会在讲述你的故事时为这个网络注入新的能量，无论是关于婚姻、智力、自信等方面。这就是我们多年来所做的，我们取得了许多令人惊奇的成功。我完全没想到这些成果会浮现出来，这一切经过了多年的实践和数据收集才得以完善。

And I feel very grateful to have had that opportunity, what I call a living lab for helping to still a lot of the mysteries of how this miraculous human system is engineered. I love the nature of writing. We encourage that with sort of decision journals. And as the means by which we can reflect, or one of the ways by which we can reflect, and one of the ways which we can learn to think as well. So not only do we discover through writing that we don't know what we're talking about always, but we discover new ideas and we come to a new understanding. It's so powerful as a form. And if you look through it history, most of the people who would, we would consider the grades of history at one point or another have journaled.
我感到非常感激有这样的机会，让我能够探索人类这个神奇系统的许多奥秘。我称之为一个活生生的实验室。我非常喜欢写作，通过某种形式的决策日志来鼓励这一点。写作是一种反思的方式，也是我们学习思考的一种方法。通过写作，我们不仅发现自己有时并不清楚自己在说些什么，还能发现新的想法，获得新的理解。这种形式非常强大。如果你回顾历史，你会发现我们认为伟大的人物，大多数都在某个时候进行过写日志。

I completely agree. And it was something that I started with after learning about this, with a lot of our clients and so forth. I started journaling and I mean, I get up in the morning, I have to do it. It's almost like an addiction now. And I try to program my day and look at all the things. And when anybody asked me, how am I feeling today? My response is, if I'm feeling a little foggy and I have a headache or whatever, I'll say, you know, I have a little, I have a few things that are bothering me, but I got to tell you, I'm excited about having another opportunity to push the needle to learn a little bit more. I'm grateful for this day. And if you put that down in writing, something magical happens is I could change the whole kind of template, the screen, the mindset you have for dealing with all the storms that you were inevitably going to face all day long. So it doesn't become a nightmare day. And that's, it's a wonderful lesson. I'm a such a believer in journaling.
我完全同意。这是我在了解到这些之后开始做的事情，我开始和很多客户一起做。我开始写日记，早上起来，我必须做这件事，这几乎已经成为一种习惯。我会规划我的一天，检查所有事情。当有人问我今天感觉如何时，如果我感到有点迷糊或者头疼，我会说，虽然有一点不舒服，但我要告诉你们，我很兴奋，因为又有机会推动进步，学到更多东西，我对这一天充满感恩。而且，如果你把这些写下来，会发生一些神奇的事情，改变你面对一天中各种风暴的心态。所以，这一天就不会变成噩梦。这是一个很好的教训，我非常相信写日记的力量。

Are there particular questions that you come back to, whether it's when you're journaling or helping people identify or modify their story that they can be asking themselves and reflecting upon? Well, one of the things again, I, all these things I didn't get from my working on a master's or doctorate degree in psychology. So you've got a degree in the real world. I've done it in the real world. But we began to realize that all the people that came there, that the people that had the greatest success had a deep compelling reason for expending all this energy and completing the mission that they had set for themselves during this intensive program. So that we began to realize that there are some forms of purpose, if you want to call it that, that take you way beyond where you would normally go in terms of the effort and energy and expenditure. And it's almost like a mission for once it's tied to your success.
有没有一些特定的问题，你在写日志或帮助别人识别或修改他们的故事时会反复问自己，并且进行反思呢？嗯，我其中一个经常遇到的情况是，这些东西我并不是从获得心理学硕士或博士学位时学到的，而是在现实生活中体会到的。我是通过实际生活获得的经验。我们发现，那些在这个强化项目中取得最大成功的人，往往有一个强烈的、令人信服的理由来花费所有的精力并完成他们为自己设定的目标。因此，我们意识到，有些形式的目标，或者你可以称之为使命，会让你付出比正常情况下更多的努力和能量。这几乎像是一种使命感，一旦与你的成功联系在一起，它会把你带得更远。

We asked people to really describe in their language, what is the ultimate mission they're on in life, the mission for which failure is not possible if they're going to be successful in life. And so we try to get them to understand that we're all here for a purpose. You had no choice in terms of showing up on planet Earth at this time. But you do have a choice as to how you want to spend the energy, the precious energy you have and the time that you have while you're here. And what would define ultimate success of your life? So we began to really, really dig into that purpose. And then we link whatever change they want to make to that purpose.
我们请人们用他们的语言详细描述他们在人生中追求的最终使命，这个使命若能成功则必定不会失败。因此，我们试图让他们明白，我们每个人来到这个世界上都是有目的的。你无法选择自己何时来到地球，但你可以选择如何花费自己宝贵的精力和时间。那么，什么是你人生的最终成功呢？于是，我们开始深入探讨这个目标，然后将他们想要做的任何改变与这个目标联系起来。

So in my own life, you know, my purpose is I laminated it and put it in my wallet. And you, now that has continued to evolve, and my probably the most compelling purpose is that I live what I teach. And that is that I don't teach to others something I don't do myself or that I think is only for other people. And so the question that I ask myself every day, I look back on yesterday and I go, did I live what I believe is really the most important mission I'm on? And was I consistent in terms of fulfilling what I believe my ultimate purpose is with my three sons, with my grandsons, with my with my colleagues? I'm trying to hold myself to account in terms of the purpose for which I believe I am here for. And that resonates with me and I'm willing to do anything and everything I can to make sure I don't fail.
在我的生活中，我将自己的目标打印出来，并放在钱包里。这个目标不断地在演变，而我最主要的目标就是践行我所传授的。也就是说，我不会教给别人我自己不做的事，或者我认为只适用于别人的事。所以，我每天都会问自己一个问题：回顾昨天，我是否践行了自己认为最重要的使命？我是否在与三个儿子、孙子以及同事相处时，一直坚持实现自己的终极目标？我努力让自己对我认为存在的目标负责。这与我内心产生共鸣，为了确保我不失败，我愿意付出一切努力。

And for me right now, I'm in a position where, you know, I don't really need to put the metal to the to the floor, but I'm more fired up now because I want to make sure that what I'm teaching, what I'm delivering on this podcast, if someone were to do an audit of my life, it would actually reflect this is how Jim Lair actually runs his life. It's not just something that he speaks about, but he applies it first to himself. And then hopefully by example, people will be interested in hearing more about it. I want to come back to something you said earlier about as children and grandchildren, we sort of inherit the stories that were told by the people in our lives. And you know, you had a great teacher, and that's that was a powerful change of your story where he or coach, I guess he believed in you before you believed in yourself. And the story we tell as parents becomes the inner monologue, I guess the inner narrative that our children grow up with.
对我来说，现在的情况是，我不需要拼命冲刺，但我现在更有激情，因为我想确保我在这个播客上教授和传递的内容，如果有人审核我的生活，会发现这正是我实际生活的方式。这不仅是我口头上谈论的事情，而是我首先应用于自己生活中的，然后希望通过以身作则，人们会对这些内容更感兴趣。我想回到你之前提到的一个话题，就是我们作为孩子和孙子女，继承了我们生活中那些人所讲述的故事。你曾经有一位伟大的老师或者教练，他在你自己相信自己之前就相信了你，这改变了你的故事。而我们作为父母所讲述的故事，成为了孩子们成长过程中内心的独白和叙述。

What are the things that we can do as parents listening to change that for the positive with our kids when they come home with a test that they, you know, maybe they failed or they're struggling with something or how can we change the story that we're telling them so it becomes a different story that they're growing up with and a different story they're inheriting from us. A lot of people are not even that aware of this inner voice until someone makes them more aware of it.
当孩子们回家时，拿着他们可能考试不及格或在某些方面遇到困难的成绩单，作为父母，我们可以做些什么来积极改变这种情况呢？我们如何改编我们对他们讲述的故事，让他们在成长过程中能听到不同的、更积极的故事，从而继承一个不同于我们的故事呢？很多人并不太注意自己内心的声音，直到有人让他们意识到这一点。

And a lot of the athletes that we worked with thought that whatever is going on between their ears is just like you're pushing air around. There's nothing really happening. You can think something but it doesn't really doesn't seem to have any consequence. So it's just kind of like nonsense. It's like babble between the ears that is just of no consequence. But we have come to an understanding that everyone has an inner voice, a private voice. Everyone has a public voice unless they have a speech issue.
我们合作的许多运动员认为，自己脑子里的想法就像是在吹气一样，没什么实际作用。你可以随便想，但这些想法似乎没有任何影响。因此，这只是种无意义的自言自语。然而，我们逐渐意识到，每个人都有一个内在的声音，一个私密的声音。 除非有语言障碍，否则每个人也都有一个公开的声音。

And it almost looks as if it's coded in the genes because one generation passes on that inner voice to the next. Your public voice with your children become their inner voice. And if you talk to them in certain ways that are very destructive, demeaning, critical, sarcastic, even though your response is, hey, I'm not trying to be anything but a good parent that's going to help them face a tough world. I don't want to develop wusses. I'm not going to be all kindness and love and all that garbage. I'm going to be like a drill sergeant because life is tough.
看起来这几乎像是基因编程好的，因为一代人将这种内心的声音传递给下一代。你和孩子们说话的方式会变成他们内心的声音。如果你用非常伤害性、贬低、批评、讽刺的方式跟他们讲话，就算你辩解说：“我只是在做一个好父母，希望他们能面对艰难的世界。我不想让他们变得软弱。我不会一直表现出善良和爱，那些都是废话，我会像训练士兵一样对待他们，因为生活很艰难。”

And their parents before them, they say kids today have way too easy. And you have to remember, I'm the guy that wrote a lot of the books on mental toughness. So I'm not for the wussification of youth. Trust me. But what's so interesting is that the voice of your parents, unless you became very aware of it and intentionally changed it, you're going to bring that voice particularly under stress to your children.
他们说，今天的孩子们过得太轻松了，就像他们的父母以前说的一样。而且你得记住，我可是写了很多关于心理韧性的书的人。所以我并不支持让年轻人变得脆弱。相信我。但有趣的是，如果你没有特别注意并故意去改变，你父母的声音在你压力大的时候很可能会传递给你的孩子。

So the first the first issue is I want you to tune in to what kind of coach are you to yourself? What is your inner voice? Would you want your inner voice to be somehow incorporated into the head of your children? The way you speak to yourself, are you proud of it? Is it helpful? Or is that a very almost sadistic adversary? This all you're never good enough. You never live up to what you really should. You're always falling short. You are a dumb head.
首先，第一个问题是，我希望你能够留意自己对自己的角色是什么样的教练。你的内心声音是什么样子的？你愿意让你的内心声音在你的孩子们的头脑中出现吗？你对自己说话的方式感到自豪吗？这种内心声音是有帮助的吗？还是它像一个几乎施虐的对手，总是在说你永远不够好，永远达不到你应有的水平，总是在失败，你是个笨蛋。

And if you look where that probably came from, if you came from a very tough culture that may have been the way parents thought for a long time, that's how you raise tough kids. You just have a tough language, not realizing that that's really, you know, it's not what the evidence shows. You want them to be truthful, straight up. You may want them to have a voice that's, you know, at times really tough. And they pull themselves up by their bootstraps and they they don't they're not wimps. They're going to be strong and handle life's stresses in ways that would make them very proud.
如果你去看看这种语言的来源，可能来自于一种非常严厉的文化。在这种文化中，父母长时间都认为这样教育孩子能让他们变得坚强。所以他们会使用严厉的语言，但其实并没有意识到，这并不是证据所显示的有效方法。你希望孩子们能够诚实、直率。有时候，你可能希望他们的声音能够很有力量，能够自力更生，不会是懦夫。他们会变得坚强，能够应对生活中的压力，并以此为傲。

But it's not this harsh inner critic where they're actually fighting two battles all the time, one with the outside world and one with themselves. It's an exhaustive two front battle. And so we're trying to help parents understand what is your inner voice saying to you? And be very careful. If you don't think that's what you want in your son or daughter's head, be very careful what you're saying publicly to them. Because your public voice will one day be their inner voice, which controls their destiny, their belief in themselves, their joy and happiness in life.
但这并不是那种严厉的内心批评，使得孩子一直在打两场仗，一场是对外界的，一场是对自己的。这种双重斗争令人精疲力竭。我们希望帮助父母理解，你的内心之声在对你说些什么？要非常小心。如果你不希望你儿子或女儿的脑海中充满这种声音，那么你在他们面前公开说的话就要非常谨慎。因为你公开的声音将会成为他们的内心之声，控制他们的命运、自信心以及生活中的快乐和幸福。

That's where it all plays out. That voice, no one hears but them, that we the only voice that's in their head until their death will come likely from you. And when you realize that, you're probably going to change the tone and the message in many important ways. I think that's so important. It's sort of like a realization that you don't know you're having this impact in a certain way. And then when you realize that that's where you got your internal voice, it sort of makes it hit home a lot.
这就是一切发生的地方。那声音，只有他们自己能听到，在他们去世之前，这个声音会一直存在于他们的脑海中，可能最终导致他们死亡的也是你。当你意识到这一点时，你可能会在很多重要方面改变自己的语气和信息内容。我认为这非常重要。就像是一种认识到自己在某种程度上产生了影响的领悟。而当你意识到这就是你的内心声音来源时，这种感觉会深深打动你。

How do we help our friends identify and sort of edit their stories? I'm thinking, we all know when the story or friends are telling them themselves is getting in the way of them being the best version of themselves. And you know, when I'm saying this, I'm thinking, we're so prone to being victims of circumstance. We like to absolve ourselves. And this is a common story. We all have it in moments. I'm sure you've had it. I've had it. Everybody else has it. How do we become a good friend in that moment and help somebody?
我们该如何帮助朋友识别和修正他们的故事？意思是，有时我们都能察觉到朋友讲的故事或他们对自己的认识在阻碍他们成为最好的自己。而且你知道，当我这么说时，我想到的是，我们常常容易成为环境的受害者。我们喜欢将责任推卸给外界，这是一个常见的故事。我们每个人都有这样的时刻，我相信你也有过，我也有过，每个人都有过。那么，在这种时刻，我们如何成为一个好朋友，帮助他们呢？

Or is it worth that? Or can you actually do anything when somebody's sort of blaming circumstance? Or I'm thinking also my kids, right? They come home and they're like, I did the best I could. And they kind of shrug their shoulders sometimes and absolve themselves of responsibility. And how can I act in those moments? So the issue is, how do you get through to this inner core of a person to their inner voice, this control central?
或者这样做值得吗？当有人在抱怨环境时，你真的能做些什么吗？或者，我在想我的孩子们，他们回到家说："我已经尽力了。" 他们有时会耸耸肩，推卸责任。在这种情况下，我该怎么做？问题是，你如何触及一个人的内心深处，他们的内心声音，那个控制中心？

Because your kids can just shut you out. They hear you, but they don't really, it doesn't register. And sometimes they hear their peers much more powerfully than they're going to hear you, particularly after they reach a certain point where they're starting to strive for independence. They kind of lock out a lot of adult messaging. But what kids don't want to be is preached to. They don't want to be preached to.
因为你的孩子可能会把你排除在外。他们听到了你说的话，但并没有真正听进去。有时候，他们更能听进同龄人的话，尤其是在他们开始寻求独立之后。他们会屏蔽很多来自成年人的信息。但孩子们最不想被灌输的就是说教，他们真的不喜欢被说教。

The great wisdom seekers in our history, when they were trying to, let's say in the American Indian tradition, they would tell stories. They tell stories that actually don't bring defensiveness. What defensiveness does, it means I'm locking you out. I don't, you're threatening me with your bloody preaching. And so the more parents can say, I'll just give you a quick little anecdote here about my life that I learned. And you give them a mindset, say, you know, I had, I was not a good student. I actually hated school. And one day I had a teacher who took me aside and said, listen, I don't know what your issue is, but you seem to be angry every time you come in the classroom. And you don't want anyone to call on you. There's no joy here.
在我们历史上那些伟大的智慧追寻者中，比如在美国印第安人传统中，他们会讲故事。这些故事实际上不会引起防备心理。防备心理的意思是，我在把你拒之门外，因为你在用你的说教威胁我。所以家长们如果能够说，我这里给你分享一个我人生中的小故事，我从中学到了一些东西。你可以给他们一个观念，说，"你知道吗，我曾经不是一个好学生。我其实讨厌上学。有一天，有位老师把我叫到一边，说，'听着，我不知道你有什么问题，但每次你进教室似乎都很生气。你不想让任何人叫你的名字。这里没有一点快乐。'"

And I would just like you to think about this. I've had lots of students like this. And you know, there is a joy in learning if you, if you can dig it out. And you provide them with a little different perspective. You know, Carol Duack, the brilliant developmental psychologist who developed this notion of mindset. There's a way to look at something. And they may not really look like they're hearing it the first time you say it. But it may register because even when you're saying it, they may not allow it into the inner recesses of this command center. But you're hoping that over time, that mindset will begin to change as opposed to being a victim.
我希望你能思考一下这个问题。我曾经有很多这样的学生。你知道，学习是有乐趣的，只要你能挖掘出来。如果你能为他们提供一个稍微不同的视角。比如，聪明的发育心理学家卡罗尔·德韦克（Carol Dweck）提出了心态理论，这是一个看待事物的方法。第一次听到时，他们可能看起来并没有真正理解。但是这些话可能会在他们心中留下印象，因为即使他们当时没有真正吸收，你也希望随着时间的推移，这种心态能够开始改变，而不是让他们觉得自己是个受害者。

Kids don't like me. And what's happening on social media for so many kids is actually, it's a tragedy. They're getting so beaten up their self esteem is so fragile. You know, kids are not held accountable for what they say. And they can't see them. When this digital criticism comes across, they can't shake it. That's why so many kids today are struggling their self esteem is like so fragile. They're only as good as the last post that came up. And when someone just gives them a chilling source of feedback, no matter how untrue, you can't stop it because it comes from their peers. And they're so vulnerable.
孩子们不喜欢我。很多孩子在社交媒体上发生的事情，实际上是一场悲剧。他们的自尊心受到了严重打击，非常脆弱。你知道，孩子们不用为他们说的话负责任。而且他们看不见对方。当这些数字化的批评传来时，他们无法摆脱。这就是为什么这么多孩子今天在挣扎，他们的自尊心变得如此脆弱。他们的好坏仅仅取决于最新发布的帖子。如果有人给了他们一条令人不寒而栗的反馈，无论多么不真实，他们都无法阻止，因为这些反馈来自他们的同龄人，而他们非常脆弱。

Parents have to be very careful about particularly in the early years, how much time they allow their kids on social media. And they have to be able to put some counterbalances in there in ways that they don't get blocked out. Because that's what happens parents. We're working on a board and a program for young people. It's called the Youth Performance Institute. And we're recruiting kids who've been through all kinds of really challenging moments. And really have come through on the other side of it. And we're using them as mentors for kids who are struggling.
家长在孩子的早期阶段必须特别小心，控制孩子在社交媒体上的使用时间。同时，他们必须找到一些平衡的方法，不让自己被排斥在外。这是因为家长们常常会在这方面遇到困难。我们正在策划一个专门为年轻人设计的项目，名为“青少年表现研究所”。我们正在招募那些经历过各种挑战并成功渡过难关的孩子，作为导师来帮助仍在挣扎中的孩子。

And so we believe that the best way to get to kids is through the mentoring of other kids who have been through the wars and have figured out answers. The more you realize that there is such a powerful destructive force, there are some positive benefits from social media. But it's like touching a hot stove. You can use a stove to cook and to do all kinds of great things with, but it can burn the hell out of you. And if you don't understand how to protect yourself and your family from that, it can completely take all these very delicate impulses and stories in your head that actually seal your fate. You don't even want to live because you have no real meaningful connections to other people, particularly your peers, after what's just happened to you.
所以我们认为，最好的方法是通过那些已经经历过风雨、找到了答案的孩子来指导其他孩子。虽然你越了解其中强大的破坏力，就越明白社交媒体也有一些积极的好处。但它就像一个烫手的炉子。你可以用它来做饭和干各种好事，但也可能会烫伤你。如果你不了解如何保护自己和家人，那些非常脆弱的冲动和头脑中的故事可能会完全失控。你甚至会失去生活的意愿，因为在经历这些之后，你和他人尤其是同龄人之间没有了真正有意义的联系。

One of the examples that you used in your book, I thought was really powerful. And I tried to use this weekend and probably failed, but it was around video gaming and how parents talked to their kids about video gaming. And I think the example in your book was stop, you know, you're playing too much video games, stop the worthless video game playing. And how do you go from that all the way to something like, I really want what's best for you because I love you. And I'm concerned that too much screen time is limiting your creativity, your brainpower, your academic progress. How do you switch that phrasing?
你在书中使用的一个例子，我觉得非常有力量。我试图在这个周末使用，但可能失败了。这个例子是关于父母如何与孩子谈论电子游戏的。我记得书中的例子是父母说：“停止，你玩太多电子游戏了，停止这些毫无价值的游戏。” 那么，如何从这样的表达转变到例如“我真的希望你能得到最好的，因为我爱你。我担心过多的屏幕时间会限制你的创造力、脑力和学业进步。” 如何转换这种说法呢？

So what you just said, Shane, you were very careful in the way in which you presented the second version. And that is the version you want embedded in their heads. That's coming from your public voice as a parent. And you want that to somehow be the way in which that young boy or girl now is thinking about it themselves, that there might be some good things here. And have them talk about how how this might not be a good thing to spend too much time. And what might be a way to actually control the way in which this is actually dominating your life. How could we put some? And I'd like for them to be involved in that as opposed to me as a parent just putting a hammer down and then they're sneaking around and they use other kids phones. And I mean, it's you've got to you've got to get their brain wrapped around the dangers involved.
你刚才说的，Shane，你在表达第二个版本时非常小心。你希望他们脑海中留存的是这个版本。作为家长，这是你希望传达的观点。你希望孩子能够自己也这么去思考，认为这里面可能有一些好处。同时，让他们讨论一下，为什么过多的时间投入可能不是一件好事，以及如何控制这种行为，使其不会主导他们的生活。我希望他们能够参与到这个过程中，而不是我作为家长直接施加严格的规定，那样他们可能会偷偷使用其他孩子的手机。你需要让他们的大脑认识到其中的危险。

And you have to be so skilled in terms of how you're telling the story. And it may not work, but you got to keep trying because the risk is real. And the way you presented it there probably is the best way you're going to have as a parent as opposed to you're not I'm taking your phone away. That's the end of that. As opposed to let's yeah, have you been hurt by what someone has ever said to you on your social media? And why do you think you spend so much time on social media? What is it doing to help you and what is it doing that might hurt you? And you bring them into the conversation as opposed to being the know it all parent because you didn't grow up with social media. So they don't even think you understand it. And you probably don't because you were never there. So you have to really be very careful about how you present a potential solution to a crisis that could be really deadly. And some of it like drinking and driving or taking drugs, they're really, really dangerous areas to talk about. And just swinging a sledgehammer probably is not going to get through mission control central. You're going to have to spend time getting them to think about this. What would happen just hypothetically, if you were drinking and driving and you were in an accident and someone got seriously hurt or died, what do you what's the impact that might have on the rest of your life? Or if someone's is drinking and driving hit you and your best friend was killed, how would you feel about that? And getting them to kind of look at it through those eyes as opposed to some mandate. If I ever catch you drinking and driving, trust me, I'm taking your keys away.
你需要非常有技巧地讲述故事。可能不会马上见效，但你必须继续尝试，因为风险是真实存在的。你在这里展示的方法可能是作为父母来说，最好的一种方法，而不是简单地说“你不行，我要没收你的手机，就这样。”相比之下，更好的方式可能是问：“有没有人在社交媒体上说过让你受伤的话？你为什么花这么多时间在社交媒体上呢？它对你有什么帮助，又有什么可能会伤害你的地方？” 你需要让孩子参与到对话中，而不是以一个全知的父母身份出现，因为你没有在社交媒体环境中长大，他们甚至认为你不了解这些事。而实际上你可能确实不太了解，因为你没有亲身经历过。所以你必须非常小心地提出可能的解决方案，因为那可能是一个致命的危机。一些话题，比如酒后驾驶或吸毒，是非常危险的领域。粗暴的方法可能不会奏效。你需要花时间让他们思考这些问题。 假设一下，如果你酒后驾驶并发生了事故，有人受了重伤或死亡，这对你今后的生活会有什么影响？或者换个角度，如果有人酒后驾驶撞到你，你最好的朋友因此丧生，你会有什么感受？让他们从这些角度去看问题，而不是强制命令。如果我发现你酒后驾驶，相信我，我会把你的车钥匙拿走。

I think, you know, especially with the drug thing that's really hard, I have two teenagers, 13 and 14. And, you know, on the weekend we walked by somebody who had clearly overdosed, I think, on the sidewalk. And it's tragic. And I felt compelled to talk to them about this moment afterwards. And the only thing that I could really muster was, you know, I don't think he thought he was going to be addicted when he started. 100%. Nobody thinks that that's going to happen to them. So that notion there but for the grace of God, go on, you know, it's like, you know, some of these folks are victims of mental illness. Sometimes they had a very, very severe injury, maybe an accident, and they started taking painkillers. And they got addicted that we didn't know how addictive this, some of these different classes of, you know, anesthesia and analgesics, all this, you know, that actually, it's the area of the brain called the nucleus acubins and the release of dopamine. And some people are just far more likely to become addicted. And even a single, you know, experiment with some of these drugs. And that they never intended, they never dreamed if they had known this was going to be the consequence, they would not have gone there. And all of a sudden they have to get their fix and they have no money. So now they're forced into crime. And now they're doing things they wouldn't even imagine doing, but they have to get it to satisfy this incredible drive to get another, another fix. And it's really challenging.
我觉得，这特别是和毒品问题有关的事情真的很难。我有两个青少年孩子，一个13岁，一个14岁。上周末，我们经过一个人，他显然在路边因为吸毒过量倒下。这真是悲剧。我觉得有必要在事后和孩子们谈谈这个时刻。我唯一能说的就是，我不认为他开始时觉得自己会成瘾。百分之百地可以确定，没有人认为这种事情会发生在自己身上。所以那种"天佑之恩，才幸免于难"的观念，非常真实。很多这些人其实是精神疾病的受害者。有时候他们经历了一次非常严重的伤害，也许是一场意外事故，开始服用止痛药，结果上瘾了。过去我们不知道这些不同类型的麻醉药和镇痛药有多么容易上瘾。实际上，这是因为大脑中的伏隔核区域和多巴胺的释放。有些人非常容易上瘾，甚至仅仅是一次尝试这些药物，他们从未预料到会有这样的后果，如果他们知道这将是结果，他们绝不会去碰这些东西。突然间，他们需要获取毒品，却没有钱，所以被迫走上犯罪的道路。他们不得不做出一些自己连想都不敢想的事情，只为了满足那个强烈的毒瘾。这真的非常具有挑战性。

So anytime you see that, that's a great opportunity with your children to have a conversation that sometimes a single bad event. I mean, I have some good friends who ended up with in really painful situation, and they ended up taking painkillers, and they became addicted. And it became an absolute war. And their spouses wanted to divorce them. No one could understand it. They had to go to all kinds of rehab for the third time. And one of my cousins ended up in jail. It's just a very, very, and it's treacherous. And it seems like it would never happen to anyone in your family or any one of my kids. But anytime you can prepare your loved ones to be very careful, you can save a lot of very, very sad, terribly unfortunate consequences of life.
所以，每当你看到这样情况时，这是一个与孩子们进行对话的好机会，告诉他们，有时候一件不好的事情发生了。我有几个好朋友，他们经历了非常痛苦的境遇，不得不使用止痛药，结果上瘾了。这成为了他们一场绝对的战争，配偶想和他们离婚，没人能理解他们。他们不得不第三次去各种康复中心治疗。其中一个表亲甚至进了监狱。这是非常、非常危险的情况。看起来这似乎永远不会发生在你或我孩子的家庭身上，但你任何时候都可以提醒你所爱的人要非常小心，这能避免生活中许多非常、非常悲伤和极为不幸的后果。

You've worked with 17 people who are the best in the world at what they did unequivocally, and you've worked with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of other people who would be considered sort of in the top 1% of their particular domain or field, whether it's in business or athletics. What would you say you know about the highest performers that other people seem to miss? When we come into the world, we just fight to try to get a sense of, you know, just, hey, I'm not a complete idiot. You know, you're trying to just find some confidence. You're always put in situations where they be emotional, social, classroom situations in math, or science, or you're not a good communicator, a good writer, and you're always pushed to try to get into sport. You're not that good at it. You can't find the right thing.
你曾与17位全球顶尖人才以及成千上万（如果不是几十万）在各自领域内位于前1%的人共事过，无论是在商业还是体育领域。你会如何评价这些顶尖人才身上那些其他人似乎看不到的特质？我们来到这个世界，一开始总是努力打拼，只为了证明自己不是个彻底的笨蛋，想找点自信。你总是被放在各种情绪化的、社交的、课堂上的数学、科学情境下，或因为你不是一个优秀的沟通者、写作不好，总是被推动去尝试体育，但你也不那么擅长，找不到合适的方向。

The thing that's amazing to me is that, you know, these folks who become such extraordinary examples of genius, most of them had no clue, no clue that this is where they're going to end up. And they tended to end up in a situation where they had the opportunity to flourish, where something that they, a light went on inside them. Maybe they had no idea that they would be, you know, a genius in math. They ended up with a teacher, a physics teacher that they fell in love with. And all of a sudden, they started realizing, I got some talents in this area of science and I love it. And all of a sudden now, they're on a whole interesting career path. Everybody has strengths, but it has to be discovered and it has to be aligned with what your interests are.
令我惊讶的是，这些后来成就卓越的人，很多他们其实完全不知道自己会有这样的结果。他们通常是在某种机遇下得以施展才华，仿佛内心的某盏灯突然亮了起来。可能他们之前根本没想到自己在数学上会有天赋，但偶然遇到了一位让他们着迷的物理老师，突然间，他们发现自己在科学领域上有些特长，而且还非常喜欢它。从那时起，他们就走上了一条充满趣味的职业道路。每个人都有自己的优势，但它需要被发现，还要与自己的兴趣相结合。

What we've found is that you tend to like doing what you're good at, not always, but, you know, some people say, I'm really good at that, but I hate it. It doesn't happen that often. If it's really that challenging and you find yourself, it's almost like easy, it's seductive. You like doing things that actually bring you great success. So most of the people that I have had the opportunity to work with, if I have an opportunity to sit down and talk with them, they have to pinch themselves when they realize where they've ended up. They've exceeded by multiples where they ever thought they could end up, whether it be financially or the prestige or their family or whatever it is. And then they're all those that just never really caught fire, never really found that.
我们发现你倾向于喜欢做自己擅长的事情，虽然不总是如此，但你知道，有些人会说："我真的很擅长这个，但我讨厌它。" 这种情况并不常见。如果某件事真的很有挑战性，但你发现它对你而言几乎是轻而易举的，那就像是有一种诱惑力。你会喜欢做那些能带来巨大成功的事情。所以，大多数我有机会与之共事的人，坐下来和他们谈话时，他们都会感到难以置信，觉得自己能有现在的成就简直不可思议。不论是从财务上来说，还是声望，抑或是家庭等等，他们的成就都远远超出了他们曾经的预期。当然，也有一些人从未真正燃起激情，未能找到自己真正喜欢做的事情。

And that's the beauty of a great teacher, a great coach, trying to find out how they can light the fire of a young boy or girl and help them understand that you don't know what you're good at and tell you try a lot of things. And eventually you're going to land somewhere. And life is so much better when you're in pursuit of something that you really are excited about and you love to learn. If I were to say one thing about myself, I'm a forever learner. I just, I love to learn. And I wasn't that way in school. I hated school. But I mean, I'm a reasonably intelligent guy. My father was a brilliant mathematician engineer. But I just never found much joy until I found a few teachers who actually brought joy out in the learning process. And then all of a sudden, I started to get on fire and I was on fire today about learning.
这就是一位伟大老师或教练的魅力所在，他们会努力去点燃一个男孩或女孩内心的火焰，帮助他们明白，你不知道自己擅长什么，除非你尝试了很多事情。最终，你会找到自己的方向。人生会在追求你真正感兴趣和热爱学习的事情时变得更加美好。要说我自己，我会说我是一位终身学习者。我非常喜欢学习，而在上学时并不是这样的。我讨厌学校。尽管我是个智力还算不错的人，我父亲是个杰出的数学家和工程师，但我从未在学习中找到太多乐趣，直到我遇到了一些能够让学习过程变得有趣的老师。突然之间，我变得热衷于学习，直到今天，我依然热爱学习。

If you look at all the things I love to learn and read and I just have, I'm very curious and I will be till my last breath. That's the gift. Teaching people to be excited about what you could become and what you might really find great joy in mastering. If you can do that as a teacher, as a parent, that is a forever gift that will never stop giving. It's definitely within the purview of most of the people we come in contact with on a regular basis. Give them joy in the learning process. They can't read, help them define books that excite them. I had a couple grandkids who were not that excited about reading. But their parents got them into Harry Potter and Harry Potter is not an easy book to read. And all of a sudden, they had so much excitement or Star Wars reading about that stuff. And all of a sudden now they're reading books like Crazy because they got them started into things they wanted to do.
如果你看看所有我热爱学习和阅读的东西，我十分好奇，并会一直保持到最后一口气。这是一种天赋。教会人们对可能成为的自己感到兴奋，并在掌握中找到真正的快乐。如果你作为老师或父母能做到这一点，那是一份永不停歇的礼物。这确实在我们经常接触的大多数人的能力范围内。让他们在学习过程中找到乐趣。如果他们不会读书，帮他们找到令他们兴奋的书籍。我有几个孙子，刚开始时对阅读并不那么感兴趣。但他们的父母让他们读哈利波特，哈利波特可不是一本容易读的书。忽然之间，他们对这些东西充满了热情，或者对星球大战书籍产生兴趣。突然之间，他们开始疯狂地阅读书籍，因为他们找到了自己想做的事情。

And maybe a music teacher wants you to learn all the classical music and you just roll your eyes and go, I hate this. And then you go, well, let's learn something you'd like to learn. And so they start playing things that really excite them. And all of a sudden the learning curve goes off the charts. And maybe at some point they're going to go back and want to play the classics. But if you start with something they're not that interested in, you may kill the Golden Goose. Real world sort of example of that in a different way. We used to buy books for classrooms. And so for schools that wouldn't buy the kids the books that they want to read because often the books in the classroom in grade two and three are sort of like hand me downs from like a decade. But they have no relevance to the kids. They're not the books they want to read.
或许一位音乐老师希望你学习所有的古典音乐，而你只是翻个白眼，说，"我讨厌这个。" 接着老师说，好吧，那我们学一些你想学的东西吧。于是你开始演奏那些真正让你兴奋的曲子，结果学习的进度突飞猛进。也许某个时候你会回过头来想演奏古典音乐。但是，如果一开始就让你学那些你不感兴趣的东西，可能会扼杀你的兴趣。 在现实生活中，有类似的例子。我们以前为教室购买图书。学校不给孩子们他们想读的书，通常教室里的书是十年前的旧书，对孩子们没有什么吸引力。这些书不是他们想读的。

I realized this with my own son in grade three, which is a different story. But and so we offered to buy classrooms like all the books the kids wanted to read. So they just had a selection of them. And we did, I think we did this for 50 or so classrooms per year for like five years. And I still get emails from those teachers saying how unbelievable the difference in the children was when the books changed. That is absolutely brilliant. That's a brilliant way to intervene in a young child's life when they're so open to the possibilities that they could become something. That's exactly it. And I got this idea from my son who always never wanted to read. It was a huge reader. I think he read before he talked basically and still is the most prolific reader I know.
我在我儿子三年级时意识到了这一点，这是另一个故事。所以我们提议为班级买一些孩子们想读的书，让他们可以有更多的选择。我们连续五年，每年为大约50个班级这样做。我至今仍收到那些老师的电子邮件，他们说，当书本换了之后，孩子们的变化简直令人难以置信。这真的是一个很棒的方法，在孩子们还对未来充满无限可能的时候，进行这样的干预是非常有效的。我这个想法是从我儿子那里得到的，他一开始总是不愿意读书，但后来他成了一个狂热的读者。我觉得他几乎在说话之前就学会了阅读，现在也是我认识的读书最多的人。

But he never wanted to read anything the school was telling him to read. And I always asked him why because I always thought it was like an authority thing. And for him it was just like, no, it's really boring. Like, I don't want to read that. And I thought that was, well, what would make it more? And why the books that you love to read? Because you clearly love that. That was the stimulus for you to do that for five years to bring all those books into the school. Yeah. Because I was like, well, if this impacts him that way, it's probably, and he was lucky because he had no problems reading.
但他从来不想读学校要求他读的任何东西。我总是问他为什么，因为我一直以为这是一种反叛权威的表现。对于他来说，真的只是因为那些书太无聊了，他不想读。我想，那到底怎样才能让他更有兴趣呢？他到底喜欢读什么书？因为很显然他对一些书充满热情。这就是促使他五年来把那些书带到学校的原因。因为我觉得，如果那些书对他的影响如此之大，或许他很幸运，因为他在阅读上没有任何困难。

And I was like, well, all these other kids who are struggling. What if they had what if he couldn't read, then you pretty much locked him out? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty. If he doesn't have anything that's interesting, he is no motivation to learn. Exactly. And anyway, I thought it was so empowering the results, at least, you know, not scientifically, but in the real world, I was like, why don't schools do this? Like, I don't understand. Like, we spend so much money later on downstream, sort of like with people who are literate or struggling to read, if we just spend a couple hundred bucks a year and grade two and grade three on books that kids want to read, whatever that year that is, whatever is, whether it's Ninjago or whatever is culturally relevant in the moment that the kids are into, you'll save all this money downstream.
我当时在想，这些其他正在挣扎的孩子怎么办呢？如果他不能阅读，那基本上就是把他拒之门外了。是的，确实如此。如果他没有任何感兴趣的东西，就没有学习的动力。没错。不管怎样，我觉得这个方法很有力量，虽然不是科学上的，但在现实世界里确实有效。我就在想，为什么学校不这么做呢？我不理解。我们后续花费了那么多钱去帮那些识字困难或正在努力阅读的人，如果我们在二年级或三年级的时候花几百块钱买些孩子们想读的书，不管是哪一年，不管是《乐高旋风忍者》还是其他文化上当时孩子们喜欢的东西，我们最终能省下很多钱。

And I always thought it was such a powerful idea that that never really took off. I love that example. It's a real world example where you made a big difference at a critical time in a young person's life. Well, one of the biggest things that I've taken from your work over, you know, the last decade or so is the amalgamation of time and energy. And one of the things that you've said in your work is that time only has value in its intersection with energy, therefore it becomes priceless in its intersection with extraordinary energy, something you call full engagement. Talk to me about time and energy.
我一直认为这是一个非常有力的想法，但它从未真正流行起来。我喜欢这个例子，这是一个在现实生活中，你在一个年轻人生命的关键时刻做出了巨大改变的例子。嗯，在过去十年左右的时间里，我从你的工作中学到的最大的一点是时间和能量的融合。你在工作中提到，时间只有在与能量交汇时才有价值，因此在与非凡能量交汇时，它变得无价，这就是你所说的“完全投入”。跟我聊聊时间和能量吧。

So when we set up the Human Performance Institute, I had come to understand, first of all, I wanted to set it on a science foundation. And almost all science is about energy, whether it's physics or chemistry or yeah, everything is fundamentally goes back to energy dynamics. We are reservoirs of potential energy and we're trying to figure out how to convert that into kinetic energy to have a big life. You have to be a big spender. But if you're going to be a big spender of energy, you have to, this is a system that has to be renewed constantly.
所以，当我们创立人类表现研究所时，我首先意识到，必须以科学为基础来建立它。几乎所有科学都与能量有关，无论是物理学、化学还是其他领域，所有的基础都回到了能量动态上。我们是潜在能量的储存库，我们需要弄清楚如何将这些潜在能量转化为动能，以过上丰富的人生。如果你想成为一个能量的大用户，你就必须不断地给这个系统充能。

It's not once you have energy, you know, all energy comes from the same place, from the mitochondria of the cells. And that's basically the union of oxygen and glucose called the Krebs cycle. And when you're depleted with glucose or oxygen, energy dynamics start to, you know, decline pretty quickly. And so we decided to set up the whole system of training around energy. And the impetus, one of the big impetus that I felt when I was working with athletes prior to setting that up, I was at the Nick Voluntary Tennis Academy. And I was there for six years as director of sports science and director of sports psychology. And I watch all of the players there, we had 240 of the best players in the world. And they would be completely on time because they were demanded to be on time. I videotaped everything when they show up on the courts. I had all this telemetry on all these kids because I wanted to learn, I wanted to figure things out.
能源并不是传说中的神奇力量，而是都来自细胞的线粒体。基本上，这就是氧气和葡萄糖在所谓的克雷布斯循环中的结合。当你缺乏葡萄糖或氧气时，能量的动态很快就会下降。因此，我们决定围绕能源来设置整个训练系统。 其中一个主要的推动力来源于我在设立这个系统之前与运动员合作的经历。当时我在尼克·波利泰利网球学院工作，担任体育科学和运动心理学的主管六年。我观察了那里的所有球员，我们拥有全世界最优秀的240名球员。他们都非常准时，因为要求很严格。我把他们到达球场时的情况全都录像了，还给这些孩子们装上了各种遥测设备，因为我想学习，想搞清楚一些事情。

And what I began to realize is that even if you were there on time, there were no way guaranteed you were going to learn anything. In fact, we actually saw were some of the kids because they hated it so much. They were perfectly on time. They got worse. They were worse from all the practice. And they were not in the language I began to use later was engaged. And engaged for me was the intersection of whatever time you have with the infusion of energy aligned with what the objective was. So if the objective was to have a better forehand or a backhand or serve or to compete better, just the fact that you showed up and were in practice, but you never invested extraordinary energy, you're not going to get much of a return. Just kind of going through the motion. Exactly. And so at that time, time management was, I mean, everyone was crazy about time management as the ultimate way.
我开始意识到，即使你按时到场，也无法保证你能学到任何东西。事实上，我们发现有些孩子因为太讨厌这个练习，即使他们非常守时，他们的表现也变得更糟。所有的练习并没有带来进步，反而让他们的表现变差了。他们并没有投入到练习中，我后来用的一个词是“投入”。在我看来，投入是指在你拥有的时间里，注入与目标一致的能量。如果目标是提高正手、反手或发球，或是更好地竞争，那么仅仅出现在训练中却没有投入大量的精力，是不会有很大的收获的。就像是走过场一样。当时，大家都疯狂地认为时间管理是最终的方法。

And I, we had Stephen M.R. Covey on our board who was Stephen's son. And I knew Stephen Covey, a brilliant man and his seven habits and everything else and his son. And I said, you know, I think you have to, this is how my brain tends to work. I said, you know, the whole time management industry is flawed. It's set on a faulty premise. And he said, no, there's, there's a billion dollar industry. You know, a lot of smart people, I'm sorry, John, I don't know what you're thinking, but that's not true. And I said, okay, I'm going to give you this scenario. You tell me if I'm right or wrong. Is the basic thesis of time management is that the first thing you need to know of what your values are, what matters most to you in life. And once you do that, you have to very courageously begin to invest time in all those things that really make the greatest difference for you that will bring success as you define it. And the more you do that, the more successful you will be. But you must invest time in the things that matter most to you. And that's why time management's so important. And I said, how close am I to that thesis? That's basically it.
我邀请了史蒂芬·M.R. 科维加入我们的董事会，他是史蒂芬·科维的儿子。我认识史蒂芬·科维，他是个聪明的人，有许多杰出的思想和七个习惯理论。我跟他儿子说，整个时间管理行业是有问题的，它建立在一个错误的前提上。他说，不对呀，这是一个十亿美元的行业，有很多聪明的人在研究这个领域，约翰，我不知道你怎么想的，但你说的不对。我说，好吧，我提供一个场景，你听听看我说得对不对。时间管理的基本理论是否是这样的：你首先要知道自己的价值观，知道什么是你生活中最重要的事情。然后你必须勇敢地投入时间在这些对你来说最重要的事情上，这些事情会按照你的定义为你带来成功。而你投入的时间越多，你就会越成功。所以时间管理非常重要。我说，这个理论是不是基本没错？他说，基本上是这样的。

And I said, well, I will tell you, the investment of time, time has no value, has no valence, has no force. Until time intersects with energy, you really have nothing. I mean, you're just there. You can be present with your family. But because you're there, is that going to move the needle forward being a loving, caring mother or father? And the fact is, no, you're going to have to invest energy aligned with the mission. Time doesn't give you anything except the opportunity to make the investment of the one thing that changes the needle that changes everything in that your energy. Whatever you invest your energy and you give life to. And it's not time, but energy. So I develop this notion of full engagement, which is investing its own acquired ability to invest your full and best energy right here, right now, regardless of what the situation is aligned with the mission. And it's hard. It's difficult, but it's a skill set. And you've got to have it. You've got to have time, but you've really have to make the investment of energy. And if your energy reserves are low, then people know you really care because you're anning up your your your anti up the the resource that you're very low on. You're not just, you know, hanging out because you don't have a lot of energy as a father, as a mother with your children. They know when you're tired. Now you're coming up with a good,
我说，好吧，我来告诉你，光有时间是不够的，时间没有价值，没有影响力，直到时间与精力相交，你才真正拥有了什么。我的意思是，你可以陪着家人，但仅仅在场并不会让你成为一个更有爱心的父母。事实是，你需要投入与目标一致的精力。时间本身并不会带来什么，除非你利用它去投入能够改变一切的东西——那就是你的精力。无论你把精力投入到什么事情上，都会赋予它生命。重要的不是时间，而是精力。所以，我提出了“全情投入”的概念，就是不论当前的情况如何，都要将你全部的、最好的精力投入到当前的任务中。这很难，需要技巧，但这是必须的。你需要时间，但更需要投入精力。如果你的精力储备不足，人们会知道你是真正在乎的，因为他们看得到你在投入你最稀缺的资源。作为父亲或母亲陪孩子时，他们能感觉到你是否疲惫。而你则需要拿出更多好的状态去面对。」

you are going to deliver on the one thing that people want because they know you care. You can invest time and don't really have much in it. If you develop extraordinary energy and invest extraordinary energy, people know you care. And that's the whole for me. That was a major breakthrough in in the paradigm. It's just a different it's a different paradigm completely than what most people have been exposed to. I mean, we have this almost this tradition of time management being everything. I was home for four hours with my family. I should get some kind of an award with it.
你将实现人们想要的东西，因为他们知道你在乎。你可以投入时间，并且不需要太多的其他资源。如果你能培养出非凡的活力，并投入非凡的精力，人们会知道你在乎。这对我来说是一个重大的突破。这完全是一种不同的思维模式，与大多数人所习惯的不同。我们有一种传统，认为时间管理是最重要的。我和家人在家待了四个小时，似乎应该得到某种奖赏。

But when we look at where your energy went, you didn't have, you know, you were watching the game, you were irritable, cranky on and on and on. And you didn't move the needle positively. In fact, you got a reverse return on them thinking that you really care deeply about them. For you to pursue that, it actually is an indictment. It's a little bit uncomfortable after you have been hoodwanked into believing that time is everything. Now you realize is energy is everything. And once you land on that on that particular platform, now how much sleep I'm getting, the quality and quantity, the frequency of my meals, and to really look at how the system was engineered from an energy perspective.
但当我们回顾你的精力花在哪儿时，你其实并没有，你知道的，你在看比赛，你变得易怒、发脾气，等等等等。你并没有积极地改变现状。事实上，你给他们的感觉是你真的很在乎他们，这反而产生了相反的效果。为了追求这些，你实际上是在自我批评。在你被误导认为时间是最重要的之后，这有点令人不舒服。现在你意识到，精力才是最重要的。一旦你明白了这一点，睡眠的质量和数量、进餐的频率、以及系统从精力角度是如何被设计的，这些都会变得非常重要。

We are oscillatory beings in an oscillatory universe. Nothing is a flat straight line. Nothing is linear except death. Every biopotential in the human physiology is oscillatory, everything. And so we have to be wave makers. We have to understand that if we want to have a big life, we've got to be spending a lot of energy, which means you've got to be recovering a lot of energy. So in our training, we put a lot of emphasis on training the mechanisms of recovery.
我们生活在一个波动的宇宙中，而我们自身也是波动的存在。没有什么是平直的线，没有什么是真正线性的，除了死亡。每一种人体生物电位都是波动的，一切都是。所以我们必须成为“波动的制造者”。我们需要理解的是，如果我们想要一个丰富的人生，我们就需要花费大量的精力，这也意味着我们必须大量恢复能量。因此，在我们的训练中，我们非常重视训练恢复机制。

When you do intervals in anaerobic capacity, what you're doing is basically training the system to recover more quickly. The fitter you are, the faster you recover. And so if you want to have a big life and be out there in the fast land, you've got to find ways to recover quickly and take care of yourself. One of the big, big insights that we had at the Institute, which was so embarrassing, when we finally had all the evidence to support it was that health ignites performance. The healthier you are, the more energy you're going to have. And the more energy you have aligned with whatever performance arena you're in, you're going to be better.
当你进行无氧能力间歇训练时，实际上是在训练身体更快恢复。身体越健康，恢复得越快。所以，如果你想在快节奏的生活中脱颖而出，就必须找到快速恢复和照顾自己的方法。我们在研究所得到的一项重要发现令人尴尬，因为最终我们有了足够的证据证明，健康促进表现。你的健康状况越好，你就会有越多的能量。而当你在任何表现领域里拥有更多的能量时，你的表现也会更出色。

So full engagement requires a lot of energy. And if you're in an environment where it's sucking all your energy up, you have nothing left. Like nurses who are on 12 hour shifts, we worked a lot in medicine. Or some of these emergency surgeries are very long and very, they're brutal. Well, how do you prepare for that? How can you oscillate in that 12 hour shift? How can a surgeon oscillate effectively so that their blood sugar levels don't get so low that in an athlete's life when that happens, they bunk, they choke.
所以，要完全投入需要很多精力。如果你处在一个消耗你所有能量的环境中，你就会筋疲力尽。比如12小时轮班的护士，我们在医学界工作了很多年。有些急诊手术非常漫长，非常艰难。那么，如何为此做好准备呢？在12小时轮班期间，如何有效地调节状态？外科医生如何才能有效地调节，以至于他们的血糖水平不会过低？在运动员的生活中，当这种情况发生时，他们会崩溃、失误。

But we don't want to choke when it comes to life and death. We worked with a lot of military special forces and helped them understand the importance of recovery. And how can you get recovery in just a few seconds? We developed what is called the 16 second cure in tennis. We're in 16 seconds between points. When you ritualize it, you can get complete and total recovery. And we validated that in using telemetry, heart rate telemetry.
但是在生死攸关的时候，我们不想掉链子。我们和许多军事特种部队合作，帮助他们了解恢复的重要性。那么，如何在几秒钟内恢复呢？我们在网球中开发了一个叫 "16秒恢复法" 的方法。即在每分球之间的16秒钟内，你可以通过固定的仪式，实现完全的恢复。我们通过心率遥测验证了这个方法的有效性。

We looked at levels of cortisol and everything else, oscillatory frequencies of the brain. But you have to train it. We have to actively train those capacities. And it's very exciting because the system is infinitely trainable. And I wrote a book called stress for success. It's like, it's not stress that's killing you. It's chronic stress. It's stress unabated by recovery. And if you're in a high stress environment, you better start learning how to get the recovery.
我们研究了皮质醇水平和其他一切东西，比如大脑的振荡频率。但是你需要训练它。我们必须积极地训练这些能力。这非常令人兴奋，因为这个系统是可以无限训练的。我写了一本书，叫做《为成功而压力》。其实，不是压力在伤害你，而是长期持续的压力，是没有恢复的压力。如果你处在一个高压环境中，你最好开始学习如何获得恢复。

And you'll start thriving in the stress. And in fact, the hormones of stress are the hormones of life. You take all the stress out of your life. You're going to start shriveling up in you. If I surround you with marshmallows and pillows, eventually all you're going to be able to deal with is marshmallows and pillows. And the pillows eventually won't be soft enough. And the marshmallows won't be sweet enough. So you've got to chase, you've got to chase oh man stress. You've got to go after that's when the life lights up. When you're on fire doing something, making something happen, expanding lots of energy and doing it in a way that doesn't compromise your ability to produce energy, eating good food, getting your good recovery at night at sleep, drinking and hydrating a lot, doing all the things that actually enhance energy production so that you can be a big spender.
你会开始在压力中茁壮成长。事实上，压力荷尔蒙也是生命的荷尔蒙。如果你把生活里的所有压力都去除掉，你反而会开始萎靡不振。如果我把你周围都放满棉花糖和枕头，最终你只能应对棉花糖和枕头。而且这些枕头会变得不够软，棉花糖也会不够甜。所以你必须追求，追求啊，追求压力。只有在追求和挑战中，你的人生才会发光。当你全身心投入做某事、让事情发生、消耗大量能量，但又不会影响你产生能量的能力，比如吃健康的食物、晚上好好休息、充分喝水和补水，做所有这些能够提升能量的事，这样你才能成为一个“能量大玩家”。

You want to be a big investor, just like Wall Street, you got to make a lot of deposits. And if you don't do that, you're going to bonk and you're going to blame old man stress. It wasn't old man stress that killed you. It was that you didn't honor the recovery that actually made the expenditure of energy manageable and actually very exciting. Walk me through the 16 seconds between points in tennis.
你想成为一个大投资者，就像华尔街那样，你必须进行大量的存款。如果不这样做，你会陷入困境，然后把责任推给压力。其实并不是压力让你崩溃，而是你没有尊重恢复过程，这其实可以让能量的消耗变得可控甚至令人兴奋。跟我说说网球比赛中两分之间的那16秒。

So again, all this data collection I was doing at the Nick Voluntary Tennis Academy, I had them all hooked up to all this telemetry looking at heart rate variability. And we did the same thing with voice recorders on. They wired them up so we could they were supposed to put verbally and with their public voice everything they were saying to themselves privately. And we began to realize that the between point time in tennis, which is roughly 20 to 25 points depending upon the tournament or whatever, and the time that we started doing this work, we began to realize that if I just took video of people playing points, you couldn't tell how mentally tough or how effective they were under pressure.
所以，回到正题，我在尼克·波利泰里网球学院进行的数据收集工作：我让他们全都连接上各种遥测设备，观察他们的心率变异性。同时，我们也让他们佩戴了录音设备，这样我们就可以记录他们说的每一句话，哪怕是自己对自己说的私人话。我们逐渐意识到，在网球比赛中，两分之间的时间大约是20到25秒，这取决于比赛的情况。从我们开始这项工作以来，我们发现，如果我仅仅是拍摄球员打球的过程，是无法判断他们在压力下的心理素质和表现的。

But if I looked at the between point time only, you could tell who were those that were actually extraordinarily good competitors and who were not. And you didn't even need to see the points. And about 70% of a match is not when people are playing points. They're actually between point time, which is major. And anyone that would think that 70% of what you're doing between points doesn't affect what you're doing during points. I mean, you have no idea how the system is integrated. When I started talking about the between point time in tennis, people thought I had duly lost my mind. No one had ever looked at the between point time. And so we began to I took as a lot of the coaches would do you, if you want to have a great forehand, you look at what are the common elements in the 10 best forehands in the world, and you teach those, those who were the best competitors, we took the best competitors on the men's and women's tour at that time, and looked at all those things that they did in common that were not just personality dynamics or anything else.
如果我只看比赛间隙的时间，你就能判断出哪些人是真正优秀的选手，哪些不是。而且你甚至不需要看比赛得分。大约70%的比赛时间并不是选手在实际打球，而是在比赛间隙，这一点非常重要。如果有人认为这70%的比赛间隙时间不会影响他们在实际比赛中的表现，那么他们根本不了解整个系统的整合过程。当我开始讨论网球比赛间隙时间时，人们认为我彻底疯了。以前从来没有人关注过比赛间隙时间。于是我们开始研究，就像很多教练做的那样，如果你想要一个好的正手击球，你会去看世界上最好的前十名选手的正手击球的共性，然后教这些方法。同样地，我们挑选了当时男子和女子巡回赛中最优秀的选手，研究他们在比赛间隙时间内共同做的所有事情，这些不仅仅是个性动态或其他因素。

And we developed a training system between points based on those 16 seconds. We found that Steffi graph at that time, took the shortest amount of time of anyone on the tour. So we said, you need at least 16 seconds. So some people would just walk right up and serve, oh, just right away jump into it. And we said, no, no, no, no, no, no. The system has to recover. You have to make waves. And we began to realize that the fitter you were, the faster your heart rate would come down. And we actually developed a computer that actually determined what your ideal range of heart rate was prior to starting point.
我们还根据这16秒的时间开发了一套在每一分之间进行训练的系统。当时我们发现，史蒂菲·格拉芙在巡回赛中所用的时间是最短的。于是我们说，你至少需要16秒。有些人会马上走上前发球，我们就说，不行，不行，不行，这样不行。系统需要恢复，你必须制造波动。我们开始意识到，你越健康，心率恢复得就越快。我们还开发了一台计算机，它实际上可以确定在开始下一分之前，你的理想心率范围。

If your heart was too high, or if it was too low, because you kind of gave up and there was no intensity, you're not going to likely perform well. And anger would send your heart rate over the top, fury, anger, frustration, all that stuff with block recovery. We began to develop this concept and I made a video of it, it became maybe the best, most widely watched video in tennis history. But the 16 second cure basically is start out with a positive physical response immediately when the point is over, then you go through a relaxation stage, then you go into kind of a ritual stage where you bounce the ball, then you kind of go purely instinctive into the point. And that will, that video will show you in great detail with all the best players in the world and they all do it.
如果你的心境过于激动，或者过于低落，因为你有点放弃了，没有任何激情，你可能无法很好地发挥。而愤怒会让你的心率飙升，狂怒、愤怒、挫折感都会阻碍恢复。我们开始发展这个概念，我拍了一个视频，它可能成为网球史上观看次数最多的视频之一。这个“16秒疗法”基本上是：在得分结束后立即做出积极的肢体反应，然后进入放松阶段，再进入一种仪式阶段，比如拍击球，然后你就可以本能地进入比赛。视频会详细展示所有世界顶级选手的做法，他们都这样做。

And but they learned it by instinct, although now the coaches teach it regularly to everyone. But I felt, you know, really positive that I may have made a contribution to the training of tennis players in their ability to manage the stresses of competitive tennis. You mentioned a word there, ritualize and ritual. Why do you use that word? The difference between a habit and a ritual, a habit is something that just, you know, may or may not help you in life.
他们靠本能学会了这项技能，尽管现在教练会定期教给每个人。但是我感到非常欣慰，因为我可能对网球选手们在应对比赛压力方面的训练做出了一些贡献。你提到了一个词："仪式化"和"仪式". 为什么你会用这个词呢？习惯和仪式的区别在于，习惯只是一些你知道的东西，可能对你的生活有帮助，也可能没有。

You have a bad habit of eating too much or you just don't hydrate enough or you drink sugary drinks all the time and it destabilizes your blood glucose levels. And but you have a lot of bad habits, you sleep too late, you don't, you don't have a habit of, you know, really laying out your day very clearly. And so you're kind of floating around most of the day just trying to catch up with yourself. Could be at, we just call those bad habits.
你有一些坏习惯，比如吃得太多，或者不喝足够的水，或者总是喝含糖饮料，这些都会导致血糖水平不稳定。而且你也有很多其他坏习惯，比如睡得很晚，没有明确安排好自己的一天，所以你大部分时间都在赶进度。这些行为我们统称为坏习惯。

And then you have good habits or positive habits that you've tried to acquire. Some of them just show up and you've been around a lot of people with good habits and you kind of required them. A ritual, as we define it, is an intentionally acquired habit that serves the mission, whatever the mission is. So to become a better tennis player between points, to become destabilized blood glucose during a match, what should you be eating? Maybe a banana drinking lots of water and some specific hydration elements between games on changeovers. You can have a ritual for getting up in the morning that you intentionally develop.
然后，你会有一些你努力养成的好习惯或积极习惯。有些习惯是自然而然形成的，因为你周围有很多具备这些好习惯的人，而你也在潜移默化中接受了它们。我们所定义的“仪式”是一种有意养成的习惯，无论任务是什么，它都为这个任务服务。比如，要成为一名更好的网球选手，比赛间隙要吃些什么以保持血糖稳定？也许是吃一根香蕉，多喝水，还有一些在交换场地时的特定补水元素。你还可以有一个自己有意设计的早晨起床仪式。

It's kind of a tiny habit that you decide is going to help you navigate in life more successfully and the things that matter to you. We need rituals. I will tell you, it's called the unbearable automaticity of being. We are creatures of habit. And some of those habits just destroy us. I mean, they don't help us at all. We don't even know how we got them. We just some one day we won't woke up and this is how it is.
这是一种小习惯，你觉得它能帮助你更成功地应对生活和关注重要的事情。我们需要习惯。我告诉你，这被称为“无法忍受的自动性”。我们是习惯的产物。而有些习惯却会毁掉我们，它们根本不帮我们。我们甚至不知道这些习惯是怎么来的，只是有一天我们醒来时，就发现自己这样了。

We love to sleep late. We don't like to get up in the morning and on and on and on. And a lot of things just, you know, they just happen. But our days pretty much unfold automatically. You're going to do tomorrow pretty much what you are wired up habitually to do. Now, the beauty of being human is that we have the ability to pause between the stimulus and response and create a novel response. And that takes a certain amount of time and a lot of energy infusion until we rewire the circuitry.
我们喜欢睡懒觉，不喜欢早上起床，生活总是这样一天天过去。很多事情就这样发生了，我们的每一天几乎都是自动展开的。你明天会做的事情，很大程度上是你习惯性做的事情。不过，作为人类的美妙之处在于，我们有能力在刺激与反应之间暂停，并创造出新的反应。这需要一定的时间和大量的精力，直到我们重新连接神经回路。

And it is a, it's basically it's a neurological loop that enables you to continue doing certain things. And in the animal kingdom, they're completely wired up with instincts and routines that enhance survival. But human beings actually can stop and reflect. I don't want to be 40 pounds overweight. I don't and then you have to link this mission, which is maybe very difficult to get off of drugs or whatever. You have to get a purpose that is so powerful that it just it just grabs you and ushers you into the storm and you will not surrender.
这基本上是一个神经回路，使你能够继续做某些事情。在动物界，它们完全依靠本能和常规来增强生存能力。但人类实际上可以停下来反思。我不想超重40磅，我不想这样，然后你需要把这个目标与一个强大的目的联系起来，或许是摆脱毒品或其他类似的困难。你必须找到一个如此强大的目标，让它彻底抓住你，引导你迎接风暴，而你绝不会屈服。

And most of the time, it's these little tiny habits getting up at a certain time, setting the alarm and having breakfast always at a certain, even if it's a small amount, you get yourself started rather than having a big lunch and then a huge dinner and going to bed. You start understanding, you know, you don't have to be a victim of your environment. You actually can intervene, but it takes a lot of heavy duty lifting. And it's all made possible by your energy investment intentional.
大多数时候，就是这些小小的习惯，比如在固定时间起床、定闹钟、即使只吃一点点也要在固定时间吃早餐，这些行为帮你开启一天，而不是吃一顿大午餐然后再吃一顿丰盛的晚餐再睡觉。你会开始明白，你不必成为环境的牺牲品，你实际上可以主动改变，但这需要付出很大的努力。而这一切都是因为你有意投入了精力才变得可能。

And the other thing I wanted to come back to that you mentioned quite a few times is mental toughness. How do we increase our mental toughness? Well, again, I didn't have it wired up right. I was just getting started trying to figure it out. And I did develop a construct that based on all the players I interviewed athletes from 21 different sports and as them to describe what they feel like when they're playing at their absolute best, something that sometimes referred to zoning, when what they could do and what they were doing were one and the same. It's an exhilarating feeling and everyone has been there.
你提到很多次的另一个话题是心理韧性。我们该如何提高心理韧性呢？其实，当时我自己也没有搞明白。我只是刚开始试着弄懂这个问题。我和来自21种不同运动项目的运动员进行了采访，并让他们描述自己在最佳状态下的感觉，类似于进入“心流”状态（也就是全神贯注，有时称为“在区”）。这种状态下，他们的能力和表现是完全一致的。这是一种令人振奋的感觉，每个人都有过这种经历。

And I just I asked them for the descriptors that they would use. And I was blown away because they all use it looked like they all copied from each other. They they were recall physically relaxed emotionally confident lots of positive energy. There was a whole constellation there were 12 of them that surfaced and I use that as I refer to it as their ideal performance state. And whether it was a linesman in football or a gymnast, it was like levels of intensity might change, but the feeling that they had when they're performing from inside was similar across all sports.
我请他们描述一下他们会用什么词来形容。让我惊讶的是，他们的回答看起来像是互相抄袭一样。他们都提到身体上非常放松、情感上很自信、充满积极能量。这些词汇一共出现了12个，我把它们称为他们的理想表现状态。不论是足球的边裁还是体操运动员，虽然强度可能会有所不同，但他们在比赛时的内在感觉在不同的运动项目中是相似的。

So that led me to understand that there is a there's an internal chemistry that's bubbling up that actually drives those feelings and emotions. There's a physiology that's allowing there's a very delicate balance in the neurophysiology and in the physiology of the whole body this mind body connection. And so the question is how do we train to actually get all of this chemistry to line up when we want it most? If you get a little too much cortisol, which is more of a defensive survival based hormone, it throws everything out of culture. All of a sudden the brainwaves start going faster, you get tighter, you get tunnel vision on and on.
这让我明白，实际上有一种内在的化学作用在涌动，驱动那些感觉和情绪。大脑与身体之间的这种联系非常微妙，在神经生理和全身的生理方面，存在着一种非常精细的平衡。那么问题是，我们如何训练以在最需要的时候让所有这些化学作用协调一致呢？如果你体内的皮质醇（这是一种以防御和生存为基础的激素）分泌过多，就会打乱这种平衡。突然之间，脑电波开始加快，你会感到紧张，视野变得狭窄，等等。

And so it's a very delicate balance and you never master it. You get close, you get better, and you have to do everything right and you have to follow your rituals to do that. When I started, I called it mental toughness. And I began to realize that mental is only one component. Emotions also are a huge driver of this chemistry and maybe more important than what you're thinking and what you're analyzing logically. Emotions probably drive more of the chemistry than anything. And your mindset that you set obviously the mental side is really important.
这真是一个非常微妙的平衡，而且你永远无法完全掌握它。你可以接近目标，变得更好，但你必须事事做对，并遵循你的一套习惯。刚开始时，我称之为心理韧性。后来我意识到，心理只是其中的一个组成部分。情绪其实也是一个巨大的影响因素，可能比你的思考和逻辑分析更为重要。情绪可能在这个过程中起到的作用比其他任何因素都要大。而你设定的心态，显然心理方面也非常重要。

But you can just completely come apart because your fitness you haven't really achieved the right fitness. So now your cells are not getting enough oxygen or you're having eaten properly. Now you're really in a glucose challenge. And maybe you don't even want to play motivationally. Maybe this is something your parents wanted you to do. But you don't really have a purpose that's your own, which will unwind so that for this delicate chemistry to rise up, you have to really want it. You have to really have the system has to bring out this amazing chemistry formula, which is not easy to mobilize, particularly in the context of pressure.
但是，因为你的体能还没有达到合适的水平，你可能完全崩溃。这样一来，你的细胞没有得到足够的氧气，或者你没有吃好，导致你面临葡萄糖不足的问题。也许你在动机上根本不想参与这项活动，可能这是你父母希望你做的事情，但你自己并没有真正的目标。这导致你的心态会瓦解。要让这种微妙的能量激发出来，你必须真心渴望它。你的身体系统需要调动出这种神奇的化学反应，这在压力环境下尤其不容易。

So it's not mental toughness, it's mental emotional, it's physical, it's actually spiritual as well. We are a fully integrated species. And we've got to understand that everything we do affects everything else. And even the way you speak to yourself, the way you walk, the way you carry your shoulders. I flew all the way to Spain because I got a fabulous opportunity to interview one of Spain's most famous bullfighters. Martin Vescuas, he's now just passed away. But he was a superstar.
所以，这不仅仅是心理上的坚定，还涉及到情感方面的心理、身体和精神层面。我们是一个完全整合的物种，我们必须理解，我们所做的每一件事都会影响其他方面。甚至你对自己说话的方式、走路的方式、肩膀的姿态也会产生影响。我飞到西班牙，因为有一个绝佳的机会采访西班牙最著名的斗牛士之一，马丁·维斯克斯。他刚刚去世，但他曾经是个超级明星。

And I begged for the opportunity to meet with him because I wanted to know how a matador controls fear when they know that there's this massive bull who is going to do everything possible to kill them and to subdue this potential threat that the bull is seeing. How do you control fear? How do you keep from being paralyzed? Because when you choke, you're very likely going to get gored and can very possibly die. Any smiles and he says, not obvious, Jim. And I said, no, I came all this way. It's not that obvious. And he said, have you ever seen a bullfighter in the ring show anything but supreme confidence?
我请求见面的机会，因为我想知道，一个斗牛士在面对一头庞大的公牛、明知它会竭尽全力杀死自己时，是如何控制恐惧的，如何抑制这头公牛眼中的潜在威胁。他们是如何控制恐惧的？他们是如何避免被吓到动弹不得的？因为如果你紧张，你很有可能会被刺伤，甚至有可能会丧命。斗牛士微笑着对我说，这还不明显吗，吉姆？我回答道，不明显，所以我才千里迢迢来到这里。他接着说，你见过在场上的斗牛士表现出除极度自信之外的任何情绪吗？

Have you ever seen them mope around with rounded shoulders saying, I'm having a bad day. I don't feel like I'm on my game today. The, you know, being negative or a little bit pessimistic and irritated at the bull because the ball is just not cooperating or whatever. You see nothing every step, every movement. You said, we start training as a young boy at a very early age on how to walk, how to turn, how to carry our shoulders, where to put our eyes. Every single detail is done meticulously.
你有没有见过他们耸着肩膀愁眉苦脸地说：“我今天过得不好。我感觉今天状态不佳。”你知道，就是那种消极或有点悲观，以及因为事情不顺利而烦躁的情绪。你看不到这些，每一步、每一个动作都精心安排。我们从小开始训练，从很小的年纪就开始学习如何走路、如何转身、如何摆肩、眼睛应该放在哪里。每一个细节都做到一丝不苟。

And he said, the bull can see that and knows that you have no fear and that you dominate the bull by your presence. We control fear by our physical presence. I was mesmerized by the whole thing and we looked at videos and it was really quite so I brought it back to the states to the Nick Voluntary Tennis Academy. And we showed all this video of bullfighters. And we developed what I call the Matador walk.
他说，公牛能够察觉到你没有恐惧，并明白你通过自身的存在来掌控它。我们通过自己的身体存在来控制恐惧。我被整个过程深深吸引住了，我们还看了很多视频，真是非常有意思。于是我把这个理念带回了美国，到尼克·波利泰尼网球学院。我们展示了所有这些斗牛士的视频，并且开发了我称之为“斗牛士步伐”的训练方法。

And I would take tennis players out in the court and teach them how to walk, how to turn, how to look, how to control their eyes. And I will tell you, it had a profound effect. They thought it was a little weird in the beginning, but they saw the results they were getting and how they felt much more. If you want to be fearless, you look fearless. If you want to control the chemistry, you have to look on the outside the way you want to feel on the inside.
我会把网球选手带到球场上，教他们如何走路、如何转身、如何看、如何控制眼神。我要告诉你们，这有很深远的影响。一开始他们觉得有点奇怪，但他们看到了自己取得的成绩以及自己感觉到的变化。如果你想无所畏惧，你就要看起来无所畏惧。如果你想控制自己的情绪，你就必须在外表上显示出你希望内心感受到的状态。

And that was the inside. It's powerful. It also relates to the stories that we were talking about earlier. It sort of comes full circle. Right, exactly. You can control your chemistry from the inside out or from the outside in. You can work with meditation, with thoughts, with ideas, with private voice, you know, or you can work from the outside working with your actual physical muscles and the way in which you carry yourself all of it can either contribute or undermine your ability to achieve your potential.
这就是内在的力量。它非常强大，而且与我们之前谈到的故事也有关联，这样一来一切就恰好连在了一起。对，完全正确。你可以从内在控制你的化学反应，也可以从外在入手。你可以通过冥想、思考、想法、内心的声音来调节，也可以通过外在的身体锻炼和姿态来进行。所有这些都能帮你实现潜能，或者也可能阻碍你的发展。

That's a really powerful way to take control, no matter where you where you are in this particular moment, you can always do something to sort of move forward. I want to end with the same question I always ask, which is, what is success for you? I just I want to make a difference in the lives of other people. And I have a very opportunistic kind of stage where I can help people if what I am saying is true.
那是一种非常有力的控制方式，无论你当下身处何地，你总能做些什么来推动前进。我想用我总是会问的同一个问题来结束：对你来说，成功是什么？我只是想在他人的生活中产生影响。如果我所说的是真的，我现在正处于一个可以帮助他人的很好的机会阶段。

Success in my life is helping other people be successful in things that matter to them. And that's why for me, my mission is to live what I teach so that if I teach it, it's not something I'm just voicing. They actually see it in my life. And I feel like if I didn't get it right, at least I did the best I could. And for me, success in my life is using the opportunities I've had to learn to help other people be successful in whatever way they define success.
我认为，我的成功是在于帮助别人成功地实现他们认为重要的事情。这就是为什么对我来说，我的使命是去践行我所教导的内容，这样当我教的时候，不只是说说而已，别人能在我身上看到实际的例子。我觉得，即使我做得不完美，至少我尽了自己最大的努力。对我来说，人生的成功就是利用我曾经有过的学习机会，去帮助别人按照他们定义的方式取得成功。

That's beautiful. Thank you so much, Jim, for taking the time. I hope some of this resonated. I appreciate all the work you've done, all the contributions you're making. And I hope we move the needle forward. Thanks for listening and learning with us for a complete list of episodes, show notes, transcripts, and more go to FS dot blog slash podcast, or just Google the knowledge project. Recently, I've started to record my reflections and thoughts about the interview after the interview.
太美了。非常感谢你，吉姆，感谢你抽出时间来。我希望这些话能引起共鸣。我非常感谢你所做的一切工作和贡献。希望我们能够有所进步。感谢你与我们共同学习。完整的节目列表、节目录音、文本记录等，你可以访问 FS.blog/podcast，或者直接搜索“The Knowledge Project”。最近，我开始在采访结束后记录我的反思和想法。

I sit down, highlight the key moments that stood out for me. And I also talk about other connections to episodes and sort of what's got me pondering that I maybe haven't quite figured out. This is available to supporting members of the knowledge project. You can go to FS dot blog slash membership, check out the show notes for a link, and you can sign up today. And my reflections will just be available in your private podcast feed.
我坐下来，标注出那些让我印象深刻的关键时刻。我还会谈到与其他剧集的联系，以及那些让我思考但还没完全想明白的问题。这些内容对知识项目的支持会员开放。你可以访问FS.blog/membership，查看节目备注中的链接，并立即注册。我的反思将会出现在你的私人播客订阅中。

You'll also skip all the ads at the front of the episode. The frontam street blog is also where you can learn more about my new book, Clear Thinking, turning ordinary moments into extraordinary results. It's a transformative guide that hands you the tools to master your fate, sharpen your decision-making, and set yourself up for unparalleled success. Learn more at FS dot blog slash clear. Until next time.
你还可以跳过剧集开头的所有广告。《Frontam Street 博客》也是你了解我的新书《清晰思维》的地方，这本书能够将普通时刻转化为非凡成果。这是一本变革性的指南，它为你提供掌握命运、提升决策能力和打造无与伦比的成功的工具。了解更多，请访问 FS.blog/clear。下次再见。