From $300M Exit to Transforming How Dealers Buy Used Cars | Car Dealership Guy Podcast
发布时间 2024-05-21 17:00:02 来源
摘要
Welcome to the Car Dealership Guy Podcast. In this episode, I'm speaking with Nate Mihalovich, CEO of The Lasso where we ...
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Dealers are always looking for ways to find inventory, but finding quality inventory where you can actually get it for a fair price and where you can also win a customer is really hard to do. We'll buy your car. Dealers struggle to find quality used inventory at scale, and while many have tried to solve this problem, this man might transform the entire industry. Today, I'm speaking with Nate Mahalovich, CEO of the Lasso, an online marketplace that connects consumers selling their cars to dealers. Don't forget to click subscribe so you never miss an episode.
经销商总是在寻找库存的方法，但是找到质量好的库存，能以公平的价格真正获取并赢得客户也是非常困难的。我们会购买您的车。经销商们很难找到规模上的优质二手库存，虽然许多人尝试解决这个问题，但这位男士可能会彻底改变整个行业。今天，我将与Nate Mahalovich，Lasso的首席执行官进行访谈，Lasso是一个在线市场，连接消费者将他们的车辆出售给经销商。别忘了点击订阅，这样您就不会错过任何一集。
But before we dive into the show, this episode is brought to you by CDK Global. CDK Global has been empowering nearly 15,000 dealers with the tools and technology they need to build deeper relationships with customers. Their team is keenly aware of the state of dealership technology, and while many vendors promise seamless experiences between your CRM, DMS, digital retail, and fixed ops, most of these bolt-on solutions tend to break workflows and cause more harm than good. That is why CDK has launched a new dealership experience platform. This new integrated software consists of everything you need to operate a dealership officially while delivering an unparalleled experience to your customers. Basically, everything working together, not separate, one system to run your dealership as opposed to 10.
但在我们深入节目之前，本集是由CDK Global赞助的。CDK Global已经为将近15,000家经销商提供了他们所需的工具和技术，以建立与客户更深入的关系。他们的团队深知经销商技术的现状，尽管许多供应商承诺在您的CRM、DMS、数字零售和固定运营之间提供无缝的体验，但大多数这些外挂解决方案往往会破坏工作流程，带来更多损害。这就是为什么CDK推出了新的经销商体验平台。这款全新的集成软件包括了您经营经销商所需的一切，同时为您的客户提供无与伦比的体验。基本上，一切都在协同工作，而不是分开的，一个系统来运营您的经销商，而不是10个系统。
CDK developed it with an outside-in approach listening to dealers every step of the way. You can learn more about CDK's dealership experience platform by visiting CDKglobal.com slash DXP or clicking the link in the show notes below. This episode is also brought to you by AutoHaulerExchange. AutoHaulerExchange is changing how vehicle shippers and carriers can connect and work together. Now, if you need to ship a car, you can work with carriers all over the country directly.
CDK采用了一种自内而外的方法来开发它，每一步都倾听经销商的意见。您可以通过访问CDKglobal.com/ DXP了解更多关于CDK的经销商体验平台。本集节目还由AutoHaulerExchange赞助。AutoHaulerExchange正在改变车辆承运商和车辆运输商之间的连接和合作方式。现在，如果您需要运输一辆汽车，您可以直接与全国各地的承运商合作。
And if you transport cars, you don't have to look through brokerage boards to find good, fair jobs anymore. By eliminating the middleman, all shipments on AutoHaulerExchange come directly from the owner of the vehicle being shipped with carriers receiving real shipment opportunities at direct pricing. AutoHaulerExchange helps shippers and carriers work together easily and clearly, adding transparency and making better partnerships. Get off the AutoHauler in rollercoaster by getting on the AutoHaulerExchange. To learn more, visit autoHaulerExchange.com or click the link in the show notes below.
如果你运输汽车，你不再需要浏览经纪人板块来找到好的、公平的工作了。通过消除中间商，AutoHaulerExchange上的所有货物都直接来自被运输车辆的所有者，承运商以直接价格获得真实的运输机会。AutoHaulerExchange帮助托运方和承运商轻松明确地合作，增加透明度，建立更好的伙伴关系。离开AutoHauler的过山车，加入AutoHaulerExchange。要了解更多信息，请访问autoHaulerExchange.com或点击下面展示注释中的链接。
Lastly, this episode is brought to you by the Lasso. I wanna thank the Lasso for coming on as a guest and also supporting this podcast. And eat my halibut on the CDG podcast, Nate, welcome. Hey, thanks so much for having me, excited to be here. It's great to have you on, man. I mean, I remember the first time we connected, it was maybe like a year and a half ago, you had a different name, not you personally, your company. So I'm excited to dig into that. I think before we get started on your business, I'd love to understand, you know, how does a lifelong tech guy find themselves venturing into the car business? What drove you to this industry? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, look, I've always loved cars. It's, that's always been something that I've been really excited and passionate about.
最后，这一集由Lasso赞助。我要感谢Lasso作为嘉宾出现并支持这个播客。在CDG播客上收到我的比目鱼，Nate，欢迎。嘿，非常感谢邀请我，很高兴能在这里。很高兴有你在，伙计。我记得我们第一次联系是大概一年半前，你的公司不是叫这个名字，而不是你个人。所以我很兴奋能深入了解这个。在谈论你的业务之前，我想了解一下，一个终身从事科技的人是如何找到自己涉足汽车行业的？是什么驱使你进入这个行业的？是的，这是个很好的问题。我一直热爱汽车。这一直是我非常激动和热情的事情。
So I think that's kind of a common thread for a lot of people in the space. But for me, you know, my background is a little bit, you know, it's very tech focused, but it's really been marketplace focused. And so I actually was a really early employee at this company called Building Connected. We built a marketplace for construction. So it's actually a bidding marketplace. There's a lot of similarities between that business and this business, which is kind of interesting. And we can get into that and I can tell you all about that.
所以我认为这是空间中很多人的共同主题。但对于我来说，你知道，我的背景有点，你知道，非常注重技术，但实际上一直关注市场。所以我实际上是这家名为Building Connected的公司的一名非常早期的员工。我们为建筑业建立了一个市场。实际上是一个投标市场。这个企业和这个企业之间有很多相似之处，这挺有趣的。我们可以探讨这一点，我可以告诉你一切。
But what's so cool is that we built this huge business. I started there. There were five people at the company. We grew to 250 people in four and a half years. We were facilitating over $100 billion with the construction projects every month. And, you know, we ended up, the company ended up getting acquired, which was a really great outcome and a super cool experience to go through. And I was sort of thinking about like what was next and we had always wanted to find a way to actually like truly facilitate those transactions. And we were never able to actually get there. We were just really helping with the auction bidding process.
但是很酷的是，我们建立了这个庞大的企业。我从那里开始。公司里起初只有五个人，但在四年半的时间里，我们发展到了250人。我们每个月都在促成超过1000亿美元的建设项目。然后，你知道的，公司最终被收购了，这是一个非常不错的结果，也是一个非常酷的经验。我在考虑下一步该做什么，我们一直想找到一种能真正促成这些交易的方式。但我们从未真正实现。我们只是在帮助拍卖竞标过程中。
And in 2018, my wife and I had bought a car and sort of had this like really negative experience, but then actually turned super positive. So we actually had sort of a classic, like you went to the dealership. There was a jerk who was working there. There was the GM and they had a couple hidden fees and we sort of were like, okay, we're not gonna do this. Called this other dealership up and said, we'll work with you, but you need to deliver the car. We wanna sign all the paperwork at home. And like, you know, you're gonna do all the heavy lifting. And they totally did. It was just like amazing experience. And I had this light bulb moment where it was like, okay, you can actually create really amazing experiences for people and it can be this magic that can happen. And that is possible. You have to find the right people and the right players who wanna do that, but it can create a much better experience.
在2018年，我的妻子和我买了一辆车，经历了一次非常消极的经历，但最终变得非常积极。我们经历了经典的故事，就像你去了经销商那样。那里有一个粗鲁的人在工作，还有一个总经理，他们有一些隐藏费用，我们觉得不舒服，所以我们决定不要再做了。我们给另一个经销商打了电话，说我们愿意和你合作，但你必须把车送到我们那里。我们想在家里签所有文件。你们需要做全部的繁重工作。他们完全按照我们要求办理了。这真是一次令人惊奇的经历。我有了一个启发时刻，意识到你可以为人们创造非常惊人的经历，这种魔力是可能存在的。你必须找到愿意这样做的合适的人和合适的角色，但这可以创造出更美好的经历。
And that was the spark that really started me out on the journey and spent the, you know, basically the entirety of 2020, researching the space, meeting different dealerships, learning about the challenges that they have and then helping build a solution. That's really where we ended up being today. So a lot of the same investors from the last company, are investors in this company, which is, you know, really great.
这就是让我真正开始这段旅程的火花。在2020年，我基本上花费了全部时间研究这个领域，拜访不同的经销商，了解他们面临的挑战，然后帮助建立解决方案。这就是我们今天所处的位置。因此，许多与上家公司相同的投资者也是这家公司的投资者，这真的很棒。
So let's talk about that. You said you started in 2020, very crazy time to be in the car business. Very different from today as well when it comes to just inventory. What was your vision? Like what did you set out to build? And like how has that changed with the times? Cause again, 2020 we had inventory. By the end of 2020, we did not have inventory. By mid 2021, we really did not have inventory. And then 22, 23 things slowly rebounded, right? What goes through your head?
让我们来谈谈这个话题。你说你是在2020年开始做汽车生意的，那时候是非常疯狂的时期。和现在的情况相比，当时的库存情况也有很大的不同。你当时的愿景是什么？你想要建立什么样的东西？随着时代的变化，这个愿景又发生了怎样的变化？因为再次强调，2020年初我们有库存，到了2020年底，我们就没有库存了。到了2021年中，我们真的是完全没有了库存。然后到了22、23年，情况慢慢恢复了，对吧？在你的脑海中，究竟有什么想法？
So the vision has actually been largely the same throughout, just sort of where we started from and how we got to where we are as changed. And so I've always wanted to basically build a place for people to manage everything related to their car. Buy a car, sell a car, repair a vehicle, get insurance, warranty, whatever it might be. And we actually started the business at the end of 2020, really focused on the service and repairs. And what we found through 2021, was that people really wanted, but like that's, it's actually really hard to help people because it's such an acute time. Like they have to either fix their car, cause they have to service it. And that's something that happens in a really specific timeframe, or they get an accident. And then that's also, you know, very, very specific.
因此，这个愿景实际上在整个过程中基本保持不变，只是我们起步的地方和取得进展的方式发生了变化。因此，我一直想要基本建立一个人们可以管理与他们的汽车相关的一切的地方。购买汽车、出售汽车、维修车辆、投保、保修，无论是什么都可以。我们实际上在2020年年底开始了这项业务，真正专注于服务和维修。而我们在2021年发现，人们实际上真的需要的是，但这其实是很难帮助他们的，因为这是一个很紧急的时间。比如，他们必须要修车，因为他们必须要进行保养。这是在一个非常具体的时间范围内发生的事情，或者他们遇到车祸。那也是一个非常非常具体的事情。
It's really hard. But a lot of those people that we were helping wanted better ways to actually sell a vehicle, go through that process. And, you know, and that's really kind of where we ended up changing the business model a little bit at the end of 2021. And then in 2022, as the market was really coming up, we were helping people find better ways to actually sell their cars and get a better price to do that. So that's really like how we ended up where we are today. And, and I think that for people who are listening to this, like what's so important, I think in any type of business, is just listening to your customers. Like we started doing something different than we actually are doing today. And that's really just through customer discovery and talking to them and being not only with the end customers, people who own vehicles, but also with the dealerships and trying to understand how we can help both those sides.
这真的很困难。但我们帮助的许多人都希望找到更好的方法来销售车辆，经过这个流程。在2021年末，我们在一定程度上改变了商业模式。然后在2022年，随着市场的快速增长，我们帮助人们找到更好的方法来真正销售他们的汽车，并获得更好的价格。这就是我们今天所处的状态。我认为对于听众来说，无论在什么类型的业务中，重要的是要倾听客户的声音。我们开始做一些与今天不同的事情，正是通过客户发现和与他们交谈，不仅是终端客户，车主，还有经销商，试图了解我们如何可以帮助这两方。
So, you know, building products becomes a lot easier when you actually have people who sort of like tell you what they want and then you actually go and do that. And that ends up being a good win. Yeah, I mean, you're right. I think it's true for every business. Definitely true for my business, right? I mean media content, it's like, it's the pinnacle of like, what the hell do you want to consume? Just to clarify, what was your business model four years ago? What is your business model today? And like what are the differences?
所以，你知道，当有人告诉你他们想要什么，然后你去做时，建造产品实际上会变得更容易。这最终会是一个双赢。是的，我是说，你说得对。我认为这对每个企业都是真实的。对我的企业来说绝对是如此，对吗？我的媒体内容，就像，这就是你到底想要消化什么。只是为了澄清一下，四年前你的商业模式是什么？你现在的商业模式是什么？有什么不同之处？
So we were really building a software solution for really for like service advisors to communicate with their customers. And so it's very different than what we're doing. Wait, can I stop you for one second? Yeah. It's crazier to say, I just posted about this like 24 hours ago. Oh really? Yeah, well not about service advisors necessarily, but just like an experience with servicing at a specific dealership that was just, it's tough to get in contact with. And so anyways, pretty like funny timing that you mentioned is because I think that communication, we talk about a lot of process, it's just never been more important at a time where, competition is hotter than ever. And people are looking left and right. But anyways, I digress, but it's just funny you mentioned that specific topic, because I did just speak about it.
所以我们真的在为服务顾问与他们的客户进行沟通而建立软件解决方案。所以这与我们正在做的事情非常不同。等等，我可以打断你一下吗？是的。说起来真是太疯狂了，我就在大约24小时前发过帖子。哦真的吗？是的，不一定是关于服务顾问，但是就是在某家特定经销商的维修经历，很难联系上。所以无论如何，你刚提到的时间点很有趣，因为我觉得在竞争如此激烈的时候，沟通变得比以往更加重要。人们四处寻找。但无论如何，我岔开了话题，但你提到了那个特定主题真是太有趣了，因为我刚刚谈到过它。
All right, anyways. All right, so that was your business model. What is your business model today? And by the way, I can comment on that. You can use this if you want to. And I mean, the problem with that really was that you can build the greatest software in the world. But if people at the dealership don't use it properly, it doesn't matter. And that was like kind of the problem was that you built this great communication software, dealers can communicate with their customers and they just didn't do it. Right? You have a bunch of service advisors who just weren't communicating properly.
好的，无论如何。所以那是你们当时的商业模式。那么你们今天的商业模式是什么？顺便说一句，我可以对此发表评论。如果你愿意的话，你可以使用这个。我的意思是，问题真正出在于你可以构建世界上最优秀的软件，但如果汽车经销商的人员没有正确使用它，那就无济于事。问题就在于你们构建了这么好的沟通软件，经销商可以与他们的客户进行沟通，但他们就是没有这样做。对吧？你们有一群服务顾问，他们就是没有正确地进行沟通。
And how we actually got to where we are today is you said, well, if we own the customer relationship and we go and find the customers, do you dealers want to participate in a system where we'll actually bring you customers? We're going to communicate with them and hold their hand through the process. But then they'll become your customers. It's like, obviously, yes, they would say yes to that. And so that's really how we got to where we are, which is that we were able to take and go and find customers and then bring them to the dealership when they were ready to actually transact.
我们如今的所在实际上是你说的，如果我们拥有客户关系并找到客户，经销商愿意参与我们为你们带来客户的系统吗？我们会与他们沟通并在整个过程中协助他们。但最终他们将成为你的客户。当然，他们会同意这个提议。这就是我们实际上取得今天的成就的方式，我们能够找到客户，然后在他们准备好实际交易时将他们带到经销商那里。
And so the business that we have today is that we have a marketplace for consumers to, in essence, auction their cars directly to a network of cardioships. And so they do that in a 24-hour period. We run these Monday through Friday at 11 a.m. And they basically come to us. They want to get multiple offers for their vehicle. And we help them do that. Take us a level deeper, right? First of all, what's the value proposition here for the dealer and the consumer? Let's just start there, actually.
所以我们今天的业务是，我们为消费者提供一个市场，实质上是让他们直接向一群汽车经销商进行拍卖。他们在一个24小时的时间段内完成这个过程。我们在周一到周五上午11点进行这些操作。他们基本上是来找我们的。他们希望为他们的车辆获得多个报价。我们帮助他们实现了这一目标。再深入一层，对吧？首先，对于经销商和消费者来说，这里有什么价值主张？实际上，就从这里开始吧。
I have like 50 questions running through my head right now. Like, what's the value property for the dealer? Why do dealers use a product like this? Why do consumers sell this way? Okay, so there's a lot here. Let's start with the dealer side. Maybe the dealer side seems obvious and dealers might be glazing over. But let me just hopefully sort of cut through the noise a little bit. Dealers are always looking for ways to find inventory. That's just a truth that exists in the industry. But finding quality inventory where you can actually get it for a fair price and where you can also win a customer is really hard to do.
我脑袋里有大概50个问题。比如，经销商的价值是什么？为什么经销商会用这样的产品？为什么消费者会这样卖？哦，问题很多。让我们从经销商这边开始讨论。也许对经销商来说似乎很明显，而且他们可能已经听腻了。但让我尝试解释一下。经销商一直在寻找库存的方法，这是行业中必然存在的真相。但要找到质量好的库存，以公平的价格购买，并且能吸引客户真的很难。
And so the only solutions that really exist for dealers are basically lead gen. So you're basically just like, if you're a dealer, you only have so many options. You can either go to the auction, you can use something like KBB, you can use something like a car gurus or something. But these are all just lead gen. So then you have to hand all these leads over to your guys and they have to spin their wheels, call people a zillion times and waste a ton of their time and energy and money, really, because time is money, to go and try to track people down and get them into the dealership.
因此，对于经销商来说，真正存在的解决方案基本上只有引导生成。所以说，如果你是一个经销商，你其实只有这么多选择。你可以去拍卖会，你可以使用像KBB或类似汽车照妖镜这样的工具。但这些都只是引导生成。然后你必须把所有这些潜在客户转交给你的团队，让他们不停地努力，不停地给人打电话，浪费大量时间、精力和金钱，因为时间就是金钱，为了去追踪这些人，把他们带进车店。
So it's just the same familiar process. So that's one end of the spectrum. Then the other end of the spectrum is that you go to the auction and then you get a car that's, that has three different owners that could be in kind of rough shape. And you hope for the best when you recon the vehicle, and then you go ahead and you sell it. And so we sort of sit a little bit in the middle.
所以这只是一个熟悉的过程。这是一个极端。另一个极端是，你去拍卖会然后买到一辆可能已经换过三个车主的车，可能外观破旧。你希望在整备车辆时一切顺利，然后再销售。所以我们在中间位置。
And I think an interesting data point is that, Cox tracks the different sources of where dealers get their cars from. Well, in 2018, they didn't even track the category of consumer direct purchases. And now that is pacing actually at about, so it last year was like 14% versus, versus like 18% for auctions. So it's actually pacing at to overtake auctions. So dealers are getting their cars off the street because they're going to face with marketplace, they're going to Craigslist, they're trying to find every single way to sort of scratch and claw at getting new customers.
我认为一个有趣的数据点是，考克斯追踪经销商从何处获取汽车的不同来源。2018年，他们甚至没有追踪消费者直接购买的类别。而现在实际上，这一来源的比例已经达到约14%，而拍卖的比例是18%。因此，消费者直接购买的比例有望超过拍卖。经销商从街头获取他们的汽车，因为他们面临市场竞争，他们前往Craigslist，尝试各种方式来吸引新客户。
The problem is that if you're a dealer in Sacramento, how are you supposed to find a consumer who has the car that you want in Los Angeles or in Las Vegas? And that's what auctions can help facilitate, ACV, Vanheim, et cetera. But there's nothing that exists in that realm for consumer to dealer. And that's the void that we're filling is we're getting a really high quality vehicle, we'll also get a customer and we can help dealers source inventory from all over the country at prices that they control that are really advantageous to them.
问题在于，如果你是萨克拉门托的一个经销商，你该如何找到一个位于洛杉矶或拉斯维加斯拥有你想要的汽车的消费者呢？这就是拍卖会可以帮助实现的，比如ACV，Vanheim等。但在消费者和经销商之间并没有存在这样的领域。我们填补的是这个空白，我们为经销商提供高质量的车辆，同时我们也找到了客户，我们可以帮助经销商从全国各地采购库存，而且价格是他们控制的，并对他们非常有利的。
So it's pretty, I think clear cut, why it's advantageous for dealers? Why is it advantageous for consumers? Well, most consumers actually only get like two or three offers for their car. So when consumers go and shop for, to sell their car where they do, they go to KBB, that's the first thing that everybody does, like 95% of people. And then they go to Carmax or Carvana and they get an offer.
我认为很明显，对于经销商来说为什么有利呢？对于消费者呢？大多数消费者实际上只会得到两到三个关于他们车的报价。所以当消费者去卖车的时候，他们会去KBB，这是每个人的第一选择，大约95%的人。然后他们会去Carmax或Carvana并且得到一个报价。
And I think people, because they have been fed the marketing machines of Carmax, Carvana and some of the other big guys, they just think that that's the best price that they can get. And actually we have a lot of data and I know, we talk about that, but we have a lot of data that shows that those guys don't actually pay top dollar for a lot of vehicles.
我认为人们之所以认为卡玛克斯、卡尔瓦纳和其他一些大公司的营销机器灌输给他们的价格是最优惠的，是因为他们受到了影响。事实上，我们有很多数据，并且我知道，我们一直在讨论这个问题，但我们有很多数据表明，这些公司事实上并不为许多车辆支付最高价。
And when you look at the data for consumers, if you only go to those three places, you can leave truly thousands of dollars in that table. And the thing that I think a lot of consumers forget is that the vast majority of dealers will beat those offers time and time again, very rarely will we actually see a consumer has a Carmax offer in hand.
当你查看消费者的数据时，如果你只去这三个地方，可能会在那张表中留下数千美元。我认为许多消费者忘记的是，绝大多数经销商会一次又一次地击败这些报价，我们很少看到消费者手里拿着卡玛克斯的报价。
And then our dealer network can't actually beat that. So for consumers, what you wanna do is, if you're trying to sell your vehicle, you wanna get as many offers as possible. But how are you supposed to do that? If you call a dealership up, they'll tell you to come in and bring the car in. We wanna look at the vehicle. And then you have to do that with what? You're gonna do that 10 different dealerships.
然后我们的经销商网络实际上无法超越这一点。因此对于消费者来说，你所要做的是，如果你想卖掉你的车辆，你应该尽可能多地获取报价。但是你应该怎么做呢？如果你给某家经销商打电话，他们会告诉你要过来并带上车。我们要看看这辆车。然后你还要重复这个步骤，不是吗？你将要去10家不同的经销商。
I mean, if you have, we have a key a dealer who buys everything under the sun. If you have an Audi, why would you ever call a key a dealer to sell the vehicle? It just wouldn't cross your mind. So I think for a lot of consumers, we are opening their eyes to see that, hey, this is a tool that can be really great for you to get a bunch of different offers. It's free for them. And dealers pay us a fee, which is no more than they would pay at an auction.
我的意思是，如果你有的话，我们有一个买下一切东西的键匙经销商。如果你有一辆奥迪，你为什么要去打电话给一个卖车的经销商呢？这根本不会出现在你的脑海中。所以我认为对许多消费者来说，我们正在开启他们的眼界，让他们意识到，嘿，这是一个可以为你提供多种不同报价的工具。对他们来说是免费的。而经销商支付给我们的费用，不会比他们在拍卖会上支付的费用更多。
So it's like you get a better quality vehicle than you would in an auction. You win a customer. So if you wanna go and sell them another car, whatever, great, I'd love for that to happen. And so it just ends up being this really big win on both sides.
这就像是你能得到比在拍卖会上更高质量的汽车。你赢得了一个客户。如果你想要再卖给他们另一辆车，那太棒了，我希望这种情况发生。所以这对双方来说都是一个真正的大赢家。
You know, it's funny, I hear you speak. And like the first thing that comes to my mind is the, you know, we call it the best end user philosophy that I would give credit to Bob Holland's head, you know, considered like the godfather of auto wholesaling and the use car business. But he coined his term, which is true.
你知道，听你讲话很有趣。第一件事，我想到的是我们称之为最佳终端用户理念，我要归功于鲍勃·荷兰德，他被认为是汽车批发和二手车业务的教父。他创造了这个名词，这是真实的。
I mean, it's pretty much what you're alluding to, which is that Carvana and CarMax, or anyone for that matter, any dealer, any specific retailer is not always the best end user for every single vehicle. And so you're betting on the fact that you can make the market more efficient by connecting consumers with dealers and deliver them a real deal or a real vehicle where they can actually pay more for that vehicle because they are the best end user for that vehicle. Am I right? 100%, 100%.
我的意思是，这基本上就是你在暗示的内容，即Carvana和CarMax，或者任何其他经销商，任何特定的零售商并不总是每辆车的最佳最终用户。所以你所赌注的是，你可以通过将消费者与经销商联系起来，为他们提供真正的交易或真正的车辆，让他们为那辆车支付更多，因为他们是那辆车最合适的最终用户。我说的对吗？100%，100%。
And so like, and this is the fun of kind of and the exciting thing of why I'm so thrilled to be on the podcast is that when you look at the auction experience that dealers have and you kind of break it down, it can be a hard experience for a lot of different reasons. Obviously it can be good for a lot of different reasons, but it can be really tough.
因此，就像这样，这就是我非常激动能够参加播客节目的原因，这种快乐和激动的时刻在于，当你看到经销商参与拍卖的经历并进行分析时，你会发现，这对许多不同的原因而言可能是一种困难的经历。显然，拍卖对很多不同的原因来说可能是好事，但它也可能是非常艰难的。
And so like, let's just talk about one other piece that's really hard for them. Let's talk about arbitration. Everybody hates arbitration, right? So like, what's the problem? The problem is that you get a vehicle that's not as described even despite the condition report. So we're actually working to solve that problem as well. So every offer that dealers put in is a non-binding offer.
所以，就让我们来谈谈另一个他们觉得很困难的事情吧。我们来谈谈仲裁。每个人都讨厌仲裁，对吧？问题在哪里？问题在于，尽管有条件报告，你仍然买到一辆描述不准确的车辆。所以我们正在努力解决这个问题。每个经销商提出的报价都是不具约束力的报价。
When the car gets to the dealership, the dealer has the right to inspect that vehicle and they basically say like, we're good. So you're not giving a hard binding number. And that's what makes this whole thing work is that consumers have to be able to provide enough information so that dealers can make a well-informed bid.
当汽车到达经销店时，经销商有权检查该车辆，基本上会说，我们没问题。所以他们没有给出一个确定的数字。整个过程的关键是消费者必须提供足够的信息，以便经销商可以做出知情决定的出价。
And then the car gets there, either gets transported there or the consumer will drop it off if they're close. And then basically the dealer gets to inspect the vehicle. So why is this important? Well, it's important because everybody hates arbitration as I just said, but it's also important because it gives the dealer the comfort to be more aggressive, to put more numbers on vehicles, and to know that when the car gets here, if something's wrong, I can either talk about that with the consumer and we can renegotiate, or if I really don't want the car, then we, so we'll actually pay to send it back.
然后车辆到达目的地，要么被运输到那里，要么消费者如果离得近的话会把车送过去。然后基本上是经销商对车辆进行检查。为什么这很重要呢？因为正如我刚才所说，每个人都讨厌仲裁，但也因为它让经销商有更多的信心，更加积极地在车辆上加入更多数字，知道当车到达这里时，如果有问题，我可以与消费者谈论并重新协商，或者如果我真的不想要这辆车，那么我们将支付将其退回的费用。
And so what's cool about this is that, and I think most interesting is that, wait, so you send it back to the consumer? Yeah. So I think that what's most interesting about this is that dealers, when they put numbers on cars, are actually really, really good at putting numbers on cars. And they get a bad rap because tools like KBB actually generate the value for the dealer. And so the dealer kind of inherits this price that they didn't put on the car. And it's just that it really unfortunate sort of situation for them, where they didn't price the vehicle themselves, and so they have to find ways to kind of cut it down.
所以这件事很酷的地方在于，我认为最有趣的是，等等，所以你把车送还给消费者？是的。所以我认为最有趣的是，经销商在给车辆定价时实际上非常擅长。他们受到了不好的评价，因为像KBB这样的工具实际上生成了经销商的价值。因此，经销商在某种程度上继承了他们没有在车上定价的价格。这对他们来说是一个非常不幸的情况，他们没有自己定价车辆，因此必须寻找方式来削减价格。
Instead of that, if you let the dealer put the number on the car, they're actually really, really good at sticking to that price. So we very rarely have a situation where the car isn't totally as described, and then they need to change it. But with that, obviously, it does come up. And in that case, then they can renegotiate with the seller, and that transaction usually almost always goes through. And then there are very, we've only had a handful of cases where we've had to send the car back. That just really doesn't happen. So that's shocking. That's shocking to me. Wait, so how many deals have you done? Like what's been your total volume? And you say you've had a handful of cases of sending back. So what's your total volume?
相比起来，如果你让经销商在车上标价，他们通常非常擅长遵守这个价格。所以我们很少遇到车辆描述与实际不符，然后需要更改的情况。但当然，这种情况也会发生。在这种情况下，他们可以与卖家重新协商，而这笔交易通常几乎总是会完成。而且我们只有极少数情况下需要退还车辆。这种情况真的很少发生。这让我感到震惊。等等，你做了多少笔交易？你的总交易量是多少？你说你只有少数退车的情况。那你的总交易量是多少？
We've helped people list over 25,000 cars. So we've seen offers come through for thousands and thousands, not every car gets an offer. So in terms of like total volume of vehicles, I mean, that's a lot of cars. The cars, like it's really only been a little bit recently where we've really started to like help ship vehicles. But we're still doing hundreds of these transactions. Now you have to be kind of smart about this. If somebody has a car that is 12 years old and 140,000 miles, then we will talk with the dealer and we'll oftentimes get that car inspected before it gets onto the shippers sort of rig.
我们已经帮助人们登记了超过25,000辆汽车。因此，我们已经看到了成千上万的报价，但并非每辆车都会收到报价。所以就总体车辆数量而言，这是很多辆车了。就汽车而言，最近我们真正开始帮助运送汽车是最近才有一点时间。但我们仍在进行数百次这样的交易。现在你必须要对此有点聪明。如果有人有一辆年龄为12年，行驶里程为14万英里的车，那么我们将与经销商进行交谈，并经常在这辆车进入装运车辆之前对其进行检查。
Because you know that like there could be some damage under the hood. But this is kind of where I think it's interesting is like if somebody sells a 2022 Tacoma with 20,000 miles, what's the point of doing an inspection really? Like I know maybe that's an unpopular opinion, but like I really like the risk on that is so low. Right? So this brought you by my very own car dealership guy, industry job board, CDG jobs.com, my industry job board connecting the best talent and automotive with the best companies will remain absolutely free for CDG listeners to post and fill available roles at their companies.
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Yeah, I mean, there's always, you know, cohorts of cars that, you know, you feel more comfortable that you could buy at site on scene does not mean that it's not going to have issues or that the customer is not, you know, trying to deceive you or something, just a lower likelihood. I get that. And what you were referring to that, like type of, you know, I view it as an insurance policy for the dealer. You know, the industry has a term for that or at least man-high model auction, it's called deal shield.
是的，我是说，总会有一些车队，你会觉得购买就在现场更加放心，但这并不意味着它不会出问题，或者顾客不会尝试欺骗你，只是可能性更低。我明白你的意思。你提到的那种，我把它看作是经销商的一种保险政策。行业有一个术语，或者至少在高档汽车拍卖中有，它叫做deal shield。
At least that's their version of it, which is a value added product that, you know, you have to add just, it almost like insurance costs every single vehicle and then you can buy it, return it. That's kind of the, you know, the mechanism. So you're saying that you're pretty much embedding that into every single purchase anyway. And so that I as a dealer can now get this car delivered to me, but if, or you're betting that I will like most of the cars I buy and I'm going to want to keep most of them so that net net, you will make a profit at the end of the day.
至少这是他们的说法，这是一种增值产品，你知道，你必须要额外添加，它几乎像每辆车都要添加的保险费用，然后你可以购买它，再退回。这就是这种机制。所以你说基本上你们已经将这种费用嵌入到每次购买中了。因此，作为一个经销商，现在我可以让这辆车送到我这里，但是，或者你们打赌我会喜欢我购买的大部分车，我会想要留下大部分，所以最终，在一天结束时，你们会得到利润。
So how do customers feel when you do have a situation where you have to send that vehicle back to them after a dealer maybe hasn't acquired it? How's that process gone for you? Cause I just try to put myself in the shoes of a consumer. It's like, I guess when that vehicle leaves my house, it's not actually sold. Yeah, that's right. I mean, so, so again, I think that, like, and I'm trying to sort of take this from the perspective of, you know, trying to synthesize a lot of the things that we've seen when dealers get, when they get really involved and engaged and aggressive, they just win so dramatically.
那么当您不得不在经销商可能尚未收购时将车辆送回给客户时，客户会有什么感受？这个过程对您来说怎么样？因为我只是试图站在消费者的立场上想一想。就好比，我想当那辆车开出我家门口时，其实还没有出售。是的，没错。所以，我觉得，就像，我试图从这样一个角度来看待，你知道，当经销商真正投入并积极参与时，他们就会取得如此惊人的胜利。
And so it is a little bit different than what they're used to, but like our number one dealer, they just, they crush it and they buy so much inventory from us that it just has become a huge, huge channel for them. And what's cool is that you can see how invested they become in it and that when they get used to a little bit of a different process, it just works so, so tremendously for them and the margins that they have on these vehicles are really, really high. So that's great. When, like, you know, hiccups always happen, right? And I think that consumers, what I would say is that consumers usually know that something's wrong with their car. I don't think that people, I mean, there are, of course, times when people don't know, but for the most part, they kind of know, right? So when you have a situation where a consumer knows that something's wrong with their car, we really kind of end up just like talking it through with them.
所以这和他们以往的经历有点不同，但就像我们的头号经销商一样，他们做得非常好，从我们这里购买了大量的库存，这成为了他们的一个巨大渠道。很酷的是，你可以看到他们对此投入了多少，当他们逐渐适应了有点不同的流程后，这对他们来说效果非常非常好，他们在这些车辆上的利润率真的非常高。所以这很棒。当出现问题时，对吧？我认为消费者通常知道他们的车有问题。我不认为人们，当然，有时候人们可能不知道，但在大多数情况下，他们有点了解，对吧？所以当消费者意识到他们的车有问题时，我们就会和他们进行沟通。
We really have, you know, I'm not going to tell you, sit here and tell you that we're perfect. Like there have, of course, been times when something goes wrong on our side or their side with the dealer and, you know, you have to do right by the customer and you have to take care of them, right? Like we try to find a better home for their vehicle if something's really wrong. And if, you know, we had a car the other month that like went to the wrong location of the dealership, then it got sent to the other one. They had to reprice the car because something was wrong with it.
我们真的，你知道的，我不会告诉你，坐在这里告诉你我们是完美无缺的。肯定会有时候，不管是我们这边出了问题，还是他们这边出了问题，或者与经销商之间出了问题，你知道的，你必须对客户负责并照顾好他们，对吧？如果车辆有什么严重问题，我们会尽力为他们寻找更好的安置。比如，上个月我们有辆车送错了经销商的位置，然后被送到另一个经销商那里。他们必须重新定价这辆车，因为有什么问题。
And we ended up basically sending the car back to the customer. And, you know, we give them a really generous gift card kind of work to get the car into the right place, right? For them to go sell the vehicle. I think that customers, the number one thing that customers really worry about is if their car gets picked up and they still own the car, is like getting paid for the car. And so we actually have our dealership license and I'll explain how we use this.
最后我们基本上把车送回给了客户。你知道，我们给他们一个非常慷慨的礼品卡，让车子到达正确的地方，对吧？让他们去销售车辆。我认为客户真正担心的第一件事情是，如果他们的车被拖走了而他们仍然拥有车子，就是要得到车的报酬。所以我们实际上有我们自己的经销商许可证，我会解释我们如何使用它。
So let's say that a customer really wants to get a check for their car. A lot of dealers won't write the check for the vehicle same day or they will send you the paperwork and then you have to wet signature send it back. And so what we'll actually do because we have our dealership license is that we can actually basically write the check to the customer, do all the paperwork with them. And then when the car gets to the dealership, the customer can go and check, cash that check. And the dealership, like we'll have seen the car, they will have inspected it.
所以让我们说，客户非常想要为他们的车辆获得一张支票。许多经销商不会当天就为车辆开具支票，要么会寄给您文件，然后您需要签字后寄回。因为我们有车行许可证，我们可以实际上直接为客户开出支票，与他们一起完成所有的文件工作。然后当车辆到达车行时，客户可以前去支票兑现。车行会看过车辆并对其进行检查。
And so we'll basically handle the paperwork and then we'll sell the car to the dealer, dealer to dealer transaction. So it becomes this like, it can become really, really easy for the customer because they could do everything digitally. It's also really easy for the dealer because we do a dealer to dealer transaction. So we've sort of dabbled with that as well where you're basically doing the titling heavy lifting for the dealer and that's like yet another perk for them. So yeah.
所以我们基本上会处理所有的文件工作，然后把车卖给经销商，进行经销商之间的交易。因此，对客户来说可以变得非常容易，因为他们可以全部在数字平台上完成。对于经销商来说也会变得非常简便，因为我们进行经销商之间的交易。所以我们也尝试过这种方式，基本上为经销商处理所有车辆过户繁重的工作，对他们来说这是一个额外的好处。所以是的。
Alright, so now things are getting interesting because I didn't know that. So you are, this is interesting. You know, cause I was gonna, you know, the next question I was gonna ask you is bluntly, why have so many like consumer to dealer marketplaces failed? Right? I'm sure you've did your homework. I'm sure you know some of these names and there've been lots of failures. I think a couple of the interesting elements that you've kind of thrown in here, which I didn't expect are the fact, are the way you handle arbitration, which is creative, especially with kind of giving the consumer the vehicle back.
好的，现在情况变得更有趣了，因为我不知道这一点。所以你是，这很有趣。你知道，因为我本来打算，你知道，下一个问题我本打算直截了当地问你的是，为什么那么多像消费者到经销商的市场都失败了？对吧？我相信你已经做过功课。我相信你知道其中一些失败的名字，失败的案例很多。你在这里提到的一些有趣的元素让我有点意外，尤其是你处理仲裁的方式很有创意，特别是把车还给消费者这一点。
And you have sort of proven, basically what you just said that you can get a consumer to pony up their vehicle for transportation before it's actually sold. And you're right. Having a check in hand does, does definitely give me that motivation. The second thing is you're not just a transaction layer. You actually have like you said, a dealership license, which allows you to get more creative in the process.
你已经证明了你刚才说的，你能够让消费者在车辆实际出售之前提供他们的车辆作为交通工具。你说得对。手中拿着支票确实给了我动力。其次，你不仅仅是一个交易层。你确实像你说的那样拥有经销商许可证，这使得你在流程中能更加创意。
And so being able to, you know, provide a check in real time to the consumer, that holds a lot of weight. And I can imagine is a big reason why they're also comfortable. They're letting that vehicle go for, you know, to the dealer, even though it's not officially sold. It took a long, it took a long time to get here, right? Like I think that there's, there's a lot of different layers to the whole thing. So yeah, I mean, to answer your question, I think that a lot of these consumer to dealer businesses have failed because I sort of said this at the beginning, they're not actually changing the workflow for dealers.
因此，能够实时向消费者提供检查，这是非常重要的。我可以想象这也是他们感到舒适的一个很大原因。即使车辆尚未正式出售，他们也愿意放心把车辆交给经销商。做到这一点花费了很长时间，对吧？我认为整个过程中有很多不同的层面。所以，是的，我想回答你的问题，我认为很多这样的消费者到经销商的业务失败了，因为我在一开始就提到了，他们实际上并没有改变经销商的工作流程。
They're not making anything dramatically better. They're simply saying, here's another customer that you can potentially win. And the dealership has to do the same work that they're doing today. So it's not anything new or different. It's lead generation in a lot of different aspects. So how do we make things better necessarily is that we can deliver a vehicle to them. We can basically do all the transaction components for them if they really want to. And that might be the direction that we need to take things. And the deal is basically done when they get the car. What tell me about, and please feel free to name drop, I don't know, like the relationship here with your dealers, but I'd love to know dealers that aren't using you already and kind of, you know, their experiences. But I also want to know, what are dealers telling you? Again, I think the vehicle acquisition is always a hot topic.
他们并没有显著地提升任何事情。他们只是在说，这里又有一个潜在的客户可以赢取。经销商必须做和他们今天做的一样的工作。所以这并没有什么新鲜或不同之处。在许多方面都是潜在客户的产生。所以我们如何才能真正地让事情变得更好呢？我们可以向他们交付汽车。如果他们真的愿意，我们基本上可以为他们处理所有交易组成部分。也许这就是我们需要走的方向。当他们拿到车时，交易基本上已经完成了。请告诉我关于这一点，也请随意提及名称，比如与您的经销商的关系，但我很想知道尚未使用你们的经销商们的经历。但我也想知道，经销商们告诉你们了些什么？再次，我认为汽车采购始终是个热门话题。
Use vehicle acquisition, the hottest of topics, right? Because there's no used vehicle factory. And always thinking about like, you know, where am I finding that next great trade-in or that next great car I can retail? And so with your conversations with dealers, right, what are they telling you? How is something like this making an impact on their business? Just tell us a little bit about your conversations with dealers. Sure.
使用汽车获取，这是一个热门话题，对吧？因为没有二手车工厂。总是在想，你知道的，我下一次能找到哪里一辆更好的交易或一辆我可以零售的好车？所以和经销商交流时，他们告诉你了什么？这种事情对他们的业务造成了什么影响？简单谈谈你和经销商的对话吧。当然。
So, I mean, look, we're working with some of the biggest dealerships in the country. And I feel really fortunate that we get to do that, working with Echo Park, which is a son of subsidiary across the country. Fitzgerald, Johnson Automotive, Coons, Pahanka. And then we've really expanded into the West Coast too. So we're working with some big groups out here, Price Sims, Norm Reeves. So, you know, look, there's some really, really great.
所以，我的意思是，我们与全国最大的经销商合作。我感到非常幸运，我们有机会与Echo Park、Fitzgerald、Johnson Automotive、Coons、Pahanka等知名公司合作。我们还在西海岸扩大业务，与Price Sims、Norm Reeves等大集团合作。总之，我们与一些非常出色的公司合作。
And then we're getting started with some of the Publix as well. And so, I mean, look, like, there's some really, really great dealers. I mean, like it just depends, every dealership is different in a lot of ways. We're getting, we're really getting started with, I think that we're sort of getting started with and just sort of at the tip of the iceberg in terms of doing these like white paper analysis for dealers and every deal can be different. But to summarize, like a lot of the benefits that the dealers will see, when they really invest in the vehicles, I mean, we do reviews with them and then we'll look at the deals and you start to really see like how much revenue they can actually generate on these deals when they're getting a really great vehicle.
然后我们也开始与一些Publix合作。所以，我是说，看，有一些非常非常棒的经销商。我是说，每家经销商在很多方面都是不同的。我们真的开始了，我认为我们正在为经销商做这种白皮书分析，并且在这方面只是冰山一角。每笔交易都可能不同。但总的来说，经销商将会看到很多好处，当他们真正投资于汽车时。我们与他们做了评论，然后我们会看看交易，你就会开始真正看到当他们拥有一辆非常好的车辆时，他们实际可以在这些交易中创造多少收入。
And, you know, a lot of them will get customers who will sell them their car than they buy another car, or they go back to the dealership directly and sell them another vehicle. And I love that, like, I love that those stories. So dealers just have to be invested in finding new and different ways to engage with customers. And I think that like, look, you might hear from some dealers while, you know, I don't necessarily wanna compete with Carvana and I don't wanna, you know, why would I wanna go and do that? And there's really no good reason, I think for people to say no to this, but the reality is like dealers, you are all competing with Carvana and Carmax anyway.
而且，你知道，很多客户会出售他们的汽车然后购买另一辆汽车，或者直接回到经销商那里再销售给他们另一辆车。我喜欢那些故事，我喜欢它们。所以经销商必须投入时间找到与客户互动的新的和不同的方式。我觉得，你可能会听到一些经销商说，你知道，我并不一定想与Carvana竞争，为什么我要这样做呢？没有什么好的理由，我认为人们应该拒绝的，但现实是，经销商，你们无论如何都在与Carvana和Carmax竞争。
Like, I think that you just have to accept that. Like, there will of course be, you know, the, you know, some, you know, older generation who doesn't go and do that, but you're always competing with them. And so I think that the sooner that dealers really recognize that consumers are shoppers in the same way that they are for buying a car, they are to sell a car, the better. And if I was to give any like advice, it's really that when dealers like lean in super hard to meeting customers where they are, they end up winning and winning really, really big.
我觉得你必须接受这一点。当然会有一些年长的人群不会这样做，但你总是在与他们竞争。所以我认为经销商越早认识到消费者和他们一样是购物者而不仅是卖车的对象，就会更好。如果我要给任何建议，那就是当经销商全力满足消费者需求时，最终他们会取得很大的成功。
And the biggest, I think, challenge that we see from dealers is that they just have so, it can be so distracting the different places that they can get a car. And when they don't, if they don't buy in enough, then, you know, they can't really win in the same way that we would want to see them.
我认为我们从经销商那里看到的最大挑战是，他们可能会受到不同购车途径的干扰。如果他们没有充分采购，那么就无法像我们希望的那样获得胜利。
Tell us a little bit about what are you currently seeing in the market? More like market insight. I'm curious to know like, how are your volumes, right? Are you seeing any trends, right? Negative equity. I'd have to imagine lots of people trying to offload cars, probably to dealers through your platform that are, you know, under water, anything specific you're seeing on your end. So from the consumer side, I mean, I think that the biggest thing that I would say is that when the market starts to really slip, which it had at the end of last year, there's this really big dislocation for consumers and it just takes them like two weeks to catch up.
请告诉我们一点关于您目前在市场上看到的情况？更像是市场洞察。我很好奇，您的销售量如何？您有看到任何趋势吗？负资产。我得想象很多人都试图通过您的平台向经销商转让汽车，可能是因为他们处于亏损状态，您有看到任何具体情况吗？从消费者的角度来看，我认为我要说的最重要的一点是，当市场真的开始滑坡时，就像去年年底那样，消费者会遇到很大的不适，他们需要大约两周时间才能适应。
But what's interesting is that they really do. So we actually get a lot of people who will come back. They will like repeat, list a car for sale. And I think that's probably something that dealers, like in a lot of essence, no, but you just have to be on top of and stay in front of these consumers because it might take them two to four weeks to actually really come around. So most of the people, most people start their journey and thinking about selling their car like 30 to 60 days before they actually will go and do that. It's very rarely this immediate need. I have to dump the car. And so consumers are, I think from like a market perspective, I think have become a lot more realistic about where they're able to sell their cars at. But we're starting to see the market really normalized. Like there was this just really big dislocation, especially last year where interest rates were too high for some people, they felt like they couldn't buy a new car. And we definitely are seeing people who are underwater. I mean, we definitely will see cars that, because we get loan payoff information. And I mean, it's tough. It's tough to see people who have a $30,000 loan and that car is retailing for like 28. So that's very common.
但有趣的是，他们确实这样做。实际上我们有很多人会回来。他们会重复地为车辆挂出售广告。我认为这可能是经销商们在很大程度上都知道的事情，但你必须把握好机会，走在消费者的前面，因为他们可能需要两到四周的时间才会真正考虑。大多数人在开始考虑出售他们的车之前，会提前30到60天。很少有紧急需要的情况，必须要摆脱这辆车。因此，从市场角度来看，我认为消费者对他们在哪里能够卖掉他们的车变得更加现实。但我们开始看到市场真正恢复正常。特别是去年，利率对一些人来说太高，他们觉得买不起新车。我们确实看到一些人负债累累。我是说，我们会得到贷款结清信息。这很艰难。看到有人贷款3万美元，而车辆零售价只有28万，这种情况非常普遍。
What do you see being close to this from your perspective, what do you see as the future here for auctions, traditional auctions, right? To your point, like they've lost some market share to cars off the street. I don't think anyone here is oblivious to that, right? We've all looked for inventory. Many of us have tried advertising, we'll buy our car. And even if you haven't, the way car max and carvana have over the last five years has been just ridiculous. I mean, you see their ads everywhere, we'll buy our car, probably toned down a little bit now, but still it's everywhere. What do you think is kind of the evolution here with auctions, right? Because you're giving like this like a white glove service, which if you can find the right car and you put the right number, it sounds like almost too good to be true, right? You're aligning incentives with me. I'm taking almost no inventory risk. I mean, actually, I'm actually taking no inventory risk whatsoever because I get to confirm my number before I actually make that final acquisition. So in one hand, it almost sounds too good to be true, which I think can mean two things. It can mean either it's something that's too good to be true or it can mean that if this business model works at scale, you've hit a goldmine and you could build a really, really big freaking business.
从您的角度来看，您认为这种拍卖方式将来会怎样发展呢，传统的拍卖方式，对吧？就像您提到的，他们已经失去了一些市场份额给那些直接买车的人。我想这里没有人会对此不知情，对吧？我们都在寻找库存。我们中的许多人已经尝试过广告，希望买入车辆。即使您没有这样做，但在过去的五年里，卡玛克斯和卡万纳的方式真是令人难以置信。我的意思是，你到处都能看到他们的广告，我们买回你的车，现在可能稍微控制了一点，但还是到处都是。您认为拍卖方式在这里将会有怎样的演变呢？因为您提供了这种白手套式的服务，如果您能找到合适的车辆并定出合适的价格，听起来几乎太好不是真的，对吧？您与我之间的激励是一致的。我几乎不承担任何库存风险。我是说，实际上，我根本不承担任何库存风险，因为我可以在最终购买之前确认我的价格。因此，在某种程度上，这几乎听起来太好不是真的，这可能意味着两种情况。它可能意味着这是一个太好不是真的的东西，或者它可能意味着如果这种商业模式在规模上获得成功，您已经找到了一座金矿，可以建立一个非常大的企业。
So how are auctions evolving from here in your mind? Is it gonna be more of like a managed marketplace like this where you're providing this white glove service? Is that where the industry is headed or is this more of like a niche product? How do you view it? That's a really hard question to answer. And I think that if I, I'll tell you like what I would like to see, like my vision for the future, which I hope can become a reality. Look, I believe there's a really, really big business to be built here, really big. Because I actually do believe that. You should do a community round. You should do a community round for a different. Great, I'd love to do a community round. I think that's what we're dealing with. I'm not sure what you're in for. Let's start with you. You put my money where my mouth is. All right, we have to disclaim. This is not an inducement for investment. Contact your financial advisor. This is not financial advice. Alright, go ahead. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
在您看来，拍卖会会如何发展？它会变得更像这样的托管市场，提供白手套服务吗？行业会朝着这个方向发展，还是更像是一种利基产品？您如何看待？这是一个非常难回答的问题。我认为，如果我能告诉您我希望看到的未来愿景，我希望这能成为现实。我相信在这里可以建立一个非常非常大的业务，非常大。因为我确实相信。你应该进行一个社区轮。你应该为不同的事情进行一个社区轮。太好了，我很乐意参加社区轮。我觉得这就是我们所要做的。我不确定您的期望是什么。让我们从您开始。我要用我的钱支持我的想法。好的，我们必须声明一下。这不是招揽投资。请联系您的理财顾问。这不是理财建议。好的，继续吧。是的，确实是这样。
So anyway, you'll, you'll leave that round. But look, I, I believe this will be a really, really big business because like most of the vehicles start with consumers.
无论如何，你会离开那一轮。但是我相信这将是一个非常非常大的生意，因为大部分的车辆都是从消费者开始的。
And there's actually a really good parallel to this, this business in the UK. It's called Motorway. And I'm sure that some people have heard about it. But when you build a destination, which they have, and you build Expedia or Kayak or, you know, some of these other places, like that, those are huge, huge businesses. And when you manage those marketplaces, they become even bigger. Right. And when you actually facilitate the transactions and you're talking about places like an Airbnb, whatever it might be. Right.
在英国有一个非常好的类似案例，叫做Motorway。我相信有些人听说过它。但当你建立了一个目的地，比如他们建立了Expedia或Kayak等类似的地方，那些都是非常大的生意。而当你管理这些市场，它们变得更大。当你实际促成交易，谈论像Airbnb这样的地方，无论是什么，都是如此。
So let's go back to Motorway. Motorway is absolutely crushing it in the UK. And the UK, which is a fifth or sixth of the size of the US. Some of the latest stats that are public stats from motorway is that they sold like $2 billion worth of cars in 2022. And so that's a, a while. Right. Like, I mean, that is an enormous amount of cars. And the possibility to expand that and do that in the US is huge. And all of these vehicles really start with consumers. Of course, there's fleets and there's, there's fleets and there's other stuff like that. But, um, but it really starts with consumers.
所以让我们回顾一下Motorway。Motorway在英国表现得非常出色。英国的规模只有美国的五分之一或六分之一。从Motorway公开的最新统计数据显示，他们在2022年销售了价值20亿美元的汽车。这真是一个漫长的时间。这是一大笔汽车交易。在美国扩大业务并做到这一点的可能性是巨大的。所有这些汽车都是从消费者开始的。当然，还有车队和其他类似的东西。但是，真正的起点是消费者。
And so I believe that as consumers become more aware of their options and as it become more aware of how this business really works and we can create more liquidity for vehicles than having a marketplace and a managed marketplace like this makes a lot of sense.
因此，我相信随着消费者对其选择的了解程度不断提高，以及对这个行业真正运作方式的认识增强，我们可以为车辆创造更多流动性，拥有类似这样的市场和被管理的市场是非常有意义的。
The key is to what we had talked about is that you can use the marketplace to talk about is that you have to really manage the marketplace. You can't just be another lead gen tool. You have to actually facilitate the transaction. And I think that there's some really, really cool stuff that we can do there to help consumers so that they have not just like a better experience, but an incredible experience that can't be replicated by dealerships.
关键点是我们要讨论的是，你可以利用市场来进行谈论的是，你必须真正管理好市场。你不能只是另一个潜在客户生成工具。你必须确实促成交易。我认为我们在这方面可以做一些非常酷的事情，以帮助消费者，让他们不仅有更好的体验，还有一种无法被经销商复制的令人难以置信的体验。
And, and so you really are trying to like think about why Carvana and CarMax are successful. They create this magical experience for consumers. And it's certainly in Carvana's case, they've digitized that experience. The 99.9%, the other, all the other remaining dealers that exist, the 20 or 30,000 other dealers that exist. A lot of them don't do that. Even the big publics haven't figured out how to do that. So if we can actually do that and be that layer for dealers, that is like, that is just incredible for them. That's magic. And that's what we're trying to create here.
因此，你真的在努力去想为什么Carvana和CarMax会如此成功。他们为消费者创造了这种神奇的体验。特别是在Carvana的情况下，他们数字化了这种体验。剩下的99.9％，其他所有还存在的经销商，大约有20至30,000个。很多经销商并没有这样做。即使是大型上市公司也没有弄清楚如何做到这一点。所以如果我们真的可以做到并为经销商提供这种支持，那对他们来说就像是魔术一样。这就是我们在这里努力创造的内容。
I love it. Where you really surprised me was when you told me that you actually have a dealer's license. I think this is where your business gets interesting because you're not, you're getting your hands dirty. And I love that. And what I mean by getting your hands dirty is titles. Titles are not my cup of tea. And I'm sure those people here listening to this conversation that are experts at titles, it wasn't really my department, not my favorite.
我很喜欢。让我真正吃惊的是当你告诉我你实际上有经销商执照时。我觉得这就是使你的业务变得有趣的地方，因为你并不是只坐在那里，你在动手干活。我很喜欢这一点。当我说要动手干活是指处理所有权文件。所有权文件并不是我的菜，我相信在听这段对话的人中，有些是处理所有权文件的专家，但那并不是我的部门，也不是我最喜欢的。
And it can get pretty hairy when you have that title. It's been lingering for x amount of days and everyone's trying to figure out what's going on and what is that and call the auction. And everyone, everyone listening here is right now thinking about that one title that they have at the dealership. They're like, I got to fix that title right now. So it gets it gets tricky. Yeah.
而一旦拥有了那个头衔，情况可能会变得相当令人头疼。这个标题已经挂了很多天了，每个人都在努力弄清楚发生了什么事，是什么情况并且要拍卖。现在每个人都在想起他们在经销店里的那个标题。他们会说，我现在得立刻解决那个标题的问题。所以情况会变得有些棘手。是的。
And I look, I totally agree. Like I just, when you think about the businesses that have been built, and this is where maybe to touch on like the earliest part, like I'm an outsider. Okay. I'm not a 30 year car guy who came from the space and there's totally value to that. But I think that being somewhat of an outsider gives me at least some perspective to have some fresh eyes on the thing. And I mean, there's a lot of things that I'm like kind of shocked by, but it's like, why are, why do dealers have to just own all the title and stuff? Like that sucks. I don't know.
我完全同意这个观点。当你想到已经建立起来的企业时，可能要谈一下最早期的部分，我是一个外人。我不是一个从事汽车业30年的老手，这方面的经验也很有价值。但我觉得作为一个外人，至少可以让我有一些新鲜的视角。我是说，有很多事情我都感到有点震惊，为什么经销商必须拥有所有权和其他一些东西呢？这很糟糕。我不知道。
To me, that just seems, it's like, it's like web 1.0 companies when they all built their own payment processing. And now there's like 10 different places that you can do that, right? Like, why would you, why do you want to do that? So I would love to do that because I think that we can create a product and create a process for that. I don't want that to be the core business, but I do think that there's a world where, and, and I'm trying to really like think about this and figure this out. Like that, I think that the piece that if I can like build in public for a minute, and if anybody wants to email me their, their answers to this, then please go ahead.
对我来说，这似乎就像是网络1.0时代的公司们都在建立他们自己的支付处理系统一样。现在有像10个不同的地方可以做到这一点，对吧？为什么要这样做呢？所以我很愿意这样做，因为我认为我们可以为此创建一个产品和流程。我不希望这成为核心业务，但我确实认为存在这样的机会，我正在努力思考和解决这个问题。我认为，如果我能够在公开场合建立起来，如果有人想要给我发电子邮件来回答这个问题，那就请随时联系我。
It's just Nate at the lasso.com. So what I'm really trying to figure out is how we can not only create our marketplace here, but also we can have a tool that dealers would actually want to just use with their own customers that they would white label. Like, let's just take the titling thing as an example. If that was something that dealers really wanted, I would love to like know if they want to offload that. But most people have a title clerk that is doing other things too, other than just acquisitions. So anyway, look, I think, you know, I think this conversation has been first of all super interesting.
这只是纳特在lasso.com上。我真正想弄清的是，我们不仅可以在这里创建我们的市场，还可以拥有一种工具，经销商实际上想与他们自己的客户一起使用，他们可以白标。比如，就拿标题这件事来说。如果那是经销商真正想要的东西，我会很乐意知道他们是否想要将其转嫁。但大多数人都有一个标题员在做除了收购之外的其他事情。总之，我认为，你知道，我认为这次谈话首先非常有趣。
You've sort of made me feel like I'm a dinosaur suddenly. And the reason I say that is because, well, the reason I say that is because I never even considered, you see, this is what happens when you're in like one industry for so long, right? I try to think outside the box. I mean, there's no limits to my brain. I mean, I go to crazy places, but I never even thought about that idea of, you know, kind of vehicle auction or whatever, call it anything you want to call it, like form of auction marketplace between a consumer and a dealer actually facilitating the title. I just haven't even thought about that. Like, I haven't considered that.
你让我突然觉得自己像是一只恐龙。我之所以这么说是因为，我从来没有考虑过，你知道吗，当你在一个行业呆了太久，就会出现这种情况。我试图打破常规。我的大脑没有边界。我思维跳跃，但我从来没有想过关于消费者和经销商之间以一种竞拍市场形式来进行车辆交易，甚至协助转让车辆所有权的这种想法。我从来没考虑过这一点。
And I think you made a lot of really good points why that actually makes the, why that makes a system work, right? Because suddenly that customer can get that check on the spot, whether or not it's deposited right away, but you can actually truly do the transaction. And as a dealer, listen, I can tell you that the average dealer that is just looking to, you know, buy off the street, a lot of dealers don't want to put up with it.
我认为你提出了很多非常有说服力的观点，为什么这实际上使系统发挥作用，对吧？因为顾客可以立即得到支票，无论是否立即存入，但你确实可以真正进行交易。作为一个经销商，听着，我可以告诉你，大多数只想从街上买车的经销商都不愿意接受这种情况。
And there's, there's some phenomenal tools out there in the market that have made putting a valuation on a vehicle a lot better. I'm a huge fan of Accutrade because it's a real strong valuation. And there's, and there's other great tools, but the transaction layer has not been solved. And I can bet you, and I'm going to put out also to everyone listening to this, right? If you're a dealer, listening to this right now, and you are not buying a lot of cars from the public or off the street because it's a cumbersome process, right? Just right in the comments right below because I guarantee you, people are going to mention this.
市场上有一些非常出色的工具，使车辆估值工作变得更加完善。我非常喜欢Accutrade，因为它提供了非常强大的评估。当然还有其他很好的工具，但交易环节还没有得到解决。我敢打赌，我也要向所有听到这番话的人提出挑战。如果你是一名经销商，现在正在听到这些话，而且因为过程繁琐而不再从公众或路边购买很多车辆，就在评论区留言，因为我可以保证，肯定会有人提到这一点。
I spoke with the dealer at, you know, the NADA conference, right? A couple, a couple months back, which, and huge dealer, it looks 600 cars a month or something from one store. And he's like, yeah, like we don't really buy off the street because it's just a too cumbersome of a process and stuff like that.
我在NADA会议上和经销商交谈过，你知道吧？大约几个月前，那个巨大的经销商，每月从一个店里卖出大约600辆汽车。他说，我们不太愿意从街上收购车辆，因为这个流程太繁琐了，等等。
So I would not sleep on this transaction layer. It's, it's, it's just as important to make the actual facilitation easy for the dealer because you're talking, you know, you have that guy, the person that needs to put the valuation and you have to transfer that to the title. There's a lot of process that's involved and no one wants to deal with that.
所以我不会放松对这笔交易层的关注。为经销商轻松实现实际的 facilitation 也同样重要，因为你在谈话，你知道，你需要那个人，那个需要估值和转移给合法所有权。涉及到许多流程，没有人愿意处理。
If you can make the economics work, if you can make the economics work for you and the dealer and of course the consumer, I mean, it's a home run. Yeah. I mean, like, look, I think that there's, uh, there's a lot of different ways that you can take it. We have a dealer license. You can actually get an auction license at some point if you really want to facilitate that.
如果你能使经济学运转起来，如果你能让经济学为你、经销商和消费者都起作用，那就像是一场全垒打。是的，就像，我想，有很多不同的方式可以做到这一点。我们有一个经销商许可证。如果你真的想要推动发展，可以在某个时候获得拍卖许可证。
Um, what's nice is that when you digitize the process, then you really have to become the dealer of record for that vehicle. Um, but you can, you can digitize the whole process. And I think that, um, a lot of like dealers just sometimes can't get out of their own way, right? They just have policies that like we need a wet signature on everything. It's like, you don't really have to.
嗯，很好的一点是，当你将过程数字化时，你就真的得成为那辆车的记录经销商。但是你可以将整个过程数字化。我觉得很多像经销商这样的人有时候就是无法改变自己的方式，对吧？他们只是遵循一些政策，比如说我们需要所有文件都有湿墨签名。但其实不一定需要这样。
Um, like we get all of our documents digitally signed, notarized. You don't, you don't have to get a wet signature on things, but there are just some corporate policies, right? And we can help get around that stuff because we'll actually sell these cars dealer to dealer to them.
嗯，我们所有的文件都是数字签名和公证的。你不必亲自在文件上签字，但是有一些公司政策，对吧？我们可以帮助解决这些问题，因为我们会将这些车辆以经销商直接卖给他们。
So, um, the only, the only thing that we like that, that can be a little bit hard that we're figuring out is that you basically float the cash for X number of days to the customer. And that can become expensive when you're going and dealing at volume. But again, I think that we'll find ways to make it. You know, putting my, putting my very raw, the trivial investor cap on, I think the real test here is can you make these economics work at scale, right? With what you just said, like, like, you know, um, for example, I just had a dealer on the podcast and she mentioned her Rita Rita case, huge dealership or case auto group in Florida and then Georgia.
所以，唯一的，我们喜欢的唯一的事情可能会有点困难，我们正在努力解决的是，你基本上需要向客户提供X天的现金流。当你处理大量交易时，这可能会变得昂贵。但我认为我们会找到方法解决这个问题。你知道，戴上我的极其原始的投资者帽子，我认为这里真正的考验是你能否在规模上使这些经济模型能够运作，对吧？就像你刚刚说的那样，比如，我刚刚在播客中采访了一位经销商，她提到了她的经销商案例，弗罗里达和乔治亚的庞大经销商或汽车集团。
And she mentioned, she's like, yeah, we actually give our clients a 20 or warranty on their vehicles. We double it all over warranties. We double them, the manufacturer warranties. And so I said, wow, I said, that's, um, that's, that, that's a big deal. She's like, it is, but if you think about it, it's that perceived value for the consumer. But in reality, she's like, who really keeps their car more than 10 years? Think about that. And so, you know what I mean? So it's a similar thing, right? If you can de-risk the process for the customer and the dealer and along the way, if that, you know, that percentage that actually have to, you know, take advantage of this insurance is low enough, you know, you now, you now end up actually keeping or you, you end up, it ends up being a net positive for you. And as a marketing expense and the dealer benefits to consumer benefits. So I love it. Yeah. It's a lot of fun.
她提到说，是的，实际上我们给客户提供20年的车辆保修。我们把所有保修都加倍了。我们把制造商的保修都加倍了。我说，哇，那个，那个，那个，那真是个大事。她说，是的，但想想看，对消费者来说那是一种感知价值。但实际上，她说，真的有人会把车开超过10年吗？想想看。所以，你懂我的意思吧？这是一样的道理，对吧？如果你能为客户和经销商减少风险，如果最终需要使用这个保险的比例很低，你最终会发现实际上是对你有利的。作为市场支出，经销商和消费者都会受益。所以我喜欢这个。是的。这很有趣。
And I think that, um, hopefully this, this podcast will open people's eyes and you know, obviously consumers, but also the dealers, like that's really, I think that it's just, it's so fun working in the space. We, I love our clients and that, you know, it's really just a great sort of salt to the earth type person that we, that we get to deal with. And so I'm, I'm excited for hopefully some of the conversations to come from this because there are just so many progressive folks who really get it. And I just like love having those kinds of conversations and folk, you know, with those kinds of people.
我认为，希望这个播客能让人们开拓视野，显然包括消费者，还有经销商，我觉得在这个领域工作实在太有趣了。我们喜爱我们的客户，他们真的是地道和善良的人，我们很高兴能与他们打交道。希望通过这个播客能产生一些有意义的对话，因为有很多进步的人真的很懂这个。我喜欢和那些人交流，与那些人有这样的对话。
And, um, a lot of people who have been on your podcast, I've spoken to you before. And, uh, so it's, it's really, really a fun time to be in the industry. And, and I do think that, um, as the market has kind of leveled out, we're going to see how these businesses really work in more of a normalized state. And, um, you know, I think, like, my hope is that this actually performs even better in a normalized state. When you have things that are too imbalanced, it can become really odd. Sort of the relationship, whether it's like, you know, to consumer heavy. Uh, or to dealer heavy, like those things aren't really work. You want some balance.
嗯，很多曾经在你的播客节目上出过现的人，我之前跟你交流过。所以，现在真的是一个非常有趣的时刻，处在这个行业中。我认为随着市场逐渐平稳，我们会看到这些企业在更加正常状态下是如何运作的。我希望这种状态下会表现得更好。当事情变得过于失衡时，可能会变得非常奇怪。比如，与消费者过于倚重，或者与经销商过于倚重，这些都不太好。你需要一些平衡。
I mean, I wouldn't hold your breath with, uh, you know, the leasing cliff here and dealership leases, dealership lease returns about to decline here in the next month. It'll be interesting to see how that impacts prices for specific segments of vehicles. Not all, uh, but definitely for that three to four, three or three to four year old segments. So it'll be, it'll be an interesting ride for the next 12 months for sure. It's going to be a lot to cover. Well, we are, we, we work mostly with people who own their vehicles, right? Like leases and lease returns. Like I would, we actually can.
我的意思是，在接下来的一个月里，由于租赁悬崖和经销商租赁合同的减少，我不认为会有什么好消息。看到这如何影响特定车型的价格将会很有趣。不是所有的车型，但绝对会影响那些三到四年以前的车型。所以在接下来的12个月里，情况会很有趣。我们与大多数拥有自己车辆的人合作，对吧？像租赁和租赁返还之类的情况，我们其实也可以处理。
Like we can totally help those people, but I think that a lot of folks just kind of in their mind, they're like, well, I don't actually own the car. So can I do anything with it? That's like one of the biggest. I think for consumers, that's like the biggest miss is that they really don't realize that they can actually do something with their car. At the end of the lease. They just think that they have to go turn the keys in. It's like nuts. Yeah, I think it depends on the manufacturer and, you know, the specific vehicle. Yeah, totally does. It does vary, but I will tell you that.
我们完全可以帮助那些人，但我觉得很多人在想，我其实并不拥有这辆车。那我能做些什么呢？对消费者来说，最大的误解之一就是他们并不真正意识到他们在租赁结束后能够做些什么。他们只是认为他们必须把钥匙交回去。实在是太疯狂了。是的，我觉得这取决于制造商和具体车辆。没错，是的。情况会有所不同，但我告诉你。
Speaking about consumers, I think one of the, one of the most interesting, uh, call it like growth hacks or whatever that I've seen in our industry in the last couple of years. A carvana went in a big way, but it's not just carana. I mean, it's other marketplaces. It's dealers, but it's actually just building a relationship with a vehicle owners by telling them, hey, we will tell you how much your vehicle is worth daily. Right. And then you get all these customers in your funnel, right? Like millions, thousands, whatever. And then it's like, oh, by the way, now that you know how much your vehicle is worth, do you want to sell it? And so that's been like the thing, right? That's what we're at today. It's just like, let us educate you on your vehicle's value. And then when you're ready to sell, you're going to use us because it's going to, we've already built trust. It's easy. You're on our platform. Uh, that's kind of the thing nowadays. I've noticed.
谈到消费者，我认为在过去几年中我们行业中最有趣的一个增长技巧或其他什么，就像是Carvana大力发展，但不仅仅是Carvana。我指的是其他市场，经销商，实际上只是通过告诉车主建立起与他们的关系，告诉他们，嘿，我们会告诉你每天你的车值多少钱。然后你就会把所有这些客户引入你的销售漏斗中，像是数以百万，成千上万的客户。然后就像是，哦，顺便说一句，现在你知道你的车值多少了，你想要卖吗？这就是目前的状况，就像是，让我们为你提供关于车辆价值的教育。然后当你准备好卖的时候，你会使用我们，因为我们已经建立了信任，很容易，你已经在我们的平台上。这是现在的趋势，我已经注意到了。
So it would be interesting to see like, you know, maybe at some point that could even be a growth hack for you where you leverage that, you know, like stuff like that with consumers. I've thought about that. I've, we've definitely thought about that. We have plans to create price tracking because we do have a lot of data. I think that what's kind of the only thing that's like tough for me with that is that. Generally speaking, the best day to sell your cars today. Like generally speaking, right?
所以看起来很有趣的是，也许在某个时候你甚至可以把这当作一种增长的技巧来利用，你可以跟消费者一起探讨这些话题。我考虑过这一点。我，我们确实考虑过这一点。我们计划创建价格追踪功能，因为我们拥有大量数据。我觉得唯一让我有些困扰的是。一般来说，今天是卖车的最佳时机。一般而言，对吧？
So it's kind of like, if people want to see the price over time. Um, and I think that people consumers hold out hope a lot of times that like the number will go up. And in very rare circumstances, it can. But a lot of times it doesn't. Right. Most times it doesn't. So that's sort of the thing is that I don't know. Maybe we just need to build it and consumers just want to see like the price over time and then they decide, okay, I'm ready to sell my car now and maybe it'll be a super, you know, like a really great home run for us, but we'll see. Love it. Name a halovich.
所以有点像，如果人们想要看价格随时间的变化。我认为人们消费者往往抱有希望，希望价格会上涨。在非常罕见的情况下，它可能会上涨。但很多时候并不会。对，大多数情况并不会。所以我不知道。也许我们只需要构建它，消费者想要看看价格随时间的变化，然后他们决定，好了，现在我准备卖车了，也许这对我们来说会是一个超级好的机会，但我们会看到的。喜欢它。名字哈洛维奇。
Any parting thoughts for us before we let you go. I think I've sort of said as much as I could say, but I look, I really would welcome any feedback or thoughts, especially from the dealership community. Please do send me an email. I respond to every single one of them. Nate at the lasso.com. We'd love to hear from you guys. And I really appreciate you having me on. Love it. Nate. Thanks for coming on, brothers. Great.
在我们让你离开之前，有什么告别的话要对我们说吗？我觉得我已经说了我能说的大部分了，但是我真的很欢迎任何反馈或想法，尤其是来自汽车经销商群体的意见。请发送给我一封电子邮件。我会回复每一封信。我的邮箱是Nate@lasso.com。我们很乐意听取你们的意见。我真的很感谢你们邀请我。谢谢。Nate，感谢你的到来，兄弟。太棒了。
All right. Hope you enjoyed that episode. Please give the podcast a rating. Consider subscribing to the show and check the show notes for links to what we talked about. Thanks for tuning in. I'll see you guys next time. Bye.
好的。希望你喜欢这一集。请给这个播客评分。考虑订阅节目并查看节目说明中我们谈论的内容的链接。感谢你的收听。下次见。再见。