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Elon Musk | LIVE Podcast | In Good Company | Norges Bank Investment Management

发布时间 2024-04-09 16:00:07    来源


Elon Musk: AI, Space, X, Mars, speed and hardcore This was a live recording on X Spaces with Elon Musk on Monday April 8th.



Hi everyone and big thanks for tanking the time Elon you know we've been trying to get you on the podcast since we started it two years ago so we are super pleased that we that we have you on and indeed on your ex platform how cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool yeah I mean you have like lots of people from all around the world simultaneously to effectively a real time podcast and which works pretty well. So we have so much to talk about. Love to kick off with with AI. Now what's your take on where we are in the AI race just now. There's so much happening in the AI is the fastest advancing technology that I've ever seen of any kind and I've seen a lot of technology. You're barely a week goes by without some new announcement. And if you look at the amount of AI hardware the computers coming online that are dedicated to AI that is increasing what looks like, at least by a factor of 10 every year if not every six to nine months.

So when you combine the hardware coming online really order of magnitude increase every, you know, call it at least every nine months. And many, many software breakthroughs. If you look at that that curve it looks insane so I think we'll. My guess is that we also will have AI that is more than any, any one human. Probably to around the end of next year. And then, I, the total amount of sort of sentient compute of AI I think will probably exceed all humans in five years. And what is that what is the race about just now is it algorithm is a people is it computing power what is it about just now is it the supply of chips.

Just what is it. Yeah last year was a chip constrained. And the hardware deployment to break it down to the three areas of people data and hardware. Last year it was about a shift supply who could not get enough. Nvidia chips particularly. This year is starting to transition to a voltage transformer supply. So actually getting up voltage transformers. Put in place. So my sort of very niche joke is transformers for transformers because a lot of the AI that's run is called a transformer. So you need transformers to run transformers. And then next in the. If you look out a year or two or certainly three years, it's just electricity availability. So that's the thought those constraints in the hardware side.

So many of the small world smartest people are doing. AI people that would have done physics before in fact, or had have done physics, for example, have moved into AI. Because it's just the fastest moving field. So we're seeing a lot of the best talents, a lot of the smartest humans going into AI. And then we see along with that algorithmic breakthroughs. And then then you start hitting the wall with the data problem. So the, you know, you can fit all books ever written. Just the text, the text in compressed form on one hard drive. Or the call one one computer. So when you're looking at like to build tokens to train on. And you can still think of like all the books ever written in every in all languages by all humans. Sounds like a lot. It's certainly is far more than any one human could ever read. It actually is a small number of training tokens. It's just not enough. So then you have to start having to look at all the videos that are created. You know, all the podcasts, all the everything. And you start even running out of data there. Well, hopefully they hopefully they will include this podcast. Definitely will include this podcast.

What's the biggest challenge you have with with X AI? Well, that's still relatively new. So it's not a, you know. Like the learning factor right now is just training our. Grock version to model, which should be, we think better than. GPD for. And that's where we're hoping to complete that in May. So that's that's training right now. So it's just really, we're. Just trying to get enough GPUs online to train it fast enough to. Get that done in May, which I think it probably will happen. So then. And that's with. Roughly 20,000 H 100s. And doing, I think very efficient training.
你在使用X人工智能时遇到的最大挑战是什么?嗯,这还是比较新的。所以不是一个,你知道的。现在最大的挑战就是训练我们的Grok版本模型,我们认为它应该比GPD好。我们希望在五月份完成这个训练。所以目前就是在进行训练。我们只是尽力将足够多的GPU在线上训练,以便在五月完成工作,我想这可能会发生。所以目前大约有20,000个H 100s,而且我认为训练效率非常高。

Then the next step would be. For Grock three, which would be, I guess. G55 or beyond. Would, you know, requires a hundred thousand. Nvidia H 100s training coherently. So that's. You know, a half order of magnitude, basically more training. And then you really start to have running into this data problem where you. You have to either create synthetic data or use real world video. So those are the two sources of kind of like unlimited data. Synthetic data. And real world video, which I should say Tesla has a pretty big advantage in real world video. Because it has by far the most real world video of anyone. Yeah, you've got a huge library.
然后下一步就是。对于Grock三来说,我猜应该是G55或更高。需要一百万次的Nvidia H100的训练。所以基本上需要多一半数量的训练。然后你就会开始遇到数据问题,你要么创造合成数据,要么使用真实世界的视频。所以这两种来源就是无限数据的来源。合成数据和真实世界的视频,我应该说特斯拉在真实世界的视频方面有很大的优势。因为它拥有迄今为止大部分真实世界的视频。是的,你拥有一个庞大的库。

So when do you think, so when do you think we'll see proper AGI. Well, this is how you define a GI. If you find a GI as smart as those miles human, I think it's. Probably any next year. Like within two years. But with that stuff, the still. It's still a pretty big leap beyond that to say smarter than the machine augmented human collective. So like is it smarter than all humans working together. Who are also using computers to augment their output. And that that I think is probably five years away. But when we look at it is, is to try to assess. Like roughly what is the ratio of digital to biological compute. Last question on on a new thoughts on regulation and how we should be structured. Well, I think we probably do need some sort of regulatory authority to look at the safety of a I just as we have. Regulatory authorities and other arenas to. You know, oversea aircraft and. The safety of aircraft and. Cars and other things, you know, medication. So. Another area which AI is progressing is fast. It's faster than probably any regulatory agency can keep up with. But I do have a comment on what I think is very important for. Achieving safe AI, which is that it's very important to train the ad to be as truthful as possible. And not to. Yeah, just to be as truthful as possible. I think you can get some very dangerous things when you program an AI to be politically correct. Thing that things that may seem. Relatively innocuous now, but will not be so in the future if has immense power. You can take the Google Gemini example where it refused to publish it to produce a picture of George Washington as a white man. And any in fact any historical figure would automatically be made diverse. Because it's been programmed to insist on diversity, which sounds. You know, perhaps OK at first, but not if the AI has so much power that it can actually enforce diversity and decide there's too many of one kind of people or too many of one sex and kill off. And so the diversity number is what is programmed to believe is correct. But I don't think this will be sorted out in the next version. No, no, they'll make it more subtle. OK, unless obvious, but it will still be there. OK, well, we'll see. But where is China? Where is China now in our relative for us? I don't know exactly what China is. Except there are a lot of very smart people in China and they. It won't be. There won't be far behind the rest of the world or far behind the US. I mean, the air right now is. Very concentrated in San Francisco and London. And then. You know, there's this. You know, a lot happening in China, but I don't have insight into what they're doing. Except that they were I'm confident they will not be far behind what is developed in the West. Yeah. So. But but but mark my words. If if we do not program an AI to be as truthful as possible. That that is where it will go. All right, that is where the danger lies. And. And.

Moving moving back here moving to to Tesla. Is is the EV conversion now going slower than you had expected? Just where is the speed of commercial relative to your expectations? I think it's going quite fast, actually, especially Norway. Absolutely. Well, it's pretty much all there is is your Tesla's. Yeah, there's a lot of Tesla's noise crazy. I want to get in like staying away for the support of electric vehicles. So much appreciated. So. I think it's. We will. That electric that all vehicles will go fully electric. It's only a matter of time. That includes aircraft ultimately and boats. Obviously trains.

The only thing that is, I don't think it'd be difficult to, or you can't really make it electric is rockets because you need. You can't get away from having to expel mass. You know, sort of Newton's dead. But, but all cause will be electric. It's only a matter of time and we'll look back on. Combustion cause in the same way that we look at back on. And then we'll look back on the last dimensions. That, that I was, it was inevitable that there would be. Internal combustion cars and that is just as inevitable that all cars will go electric. And. There will be some evidence, you know, so that can be a completely. Straight up line, there will be some. Evan flow in how. How far electric cars go, but that. But the ultimate. Victory electric cars is inevitable. And I think the sooner we get there, the better.

Yeah. How do you see the Chinese competition now? We generally find that the companies in China are the most competitive in the world. And so me in. Electric vehicles or cars in general, the Chinese car companies are by far the most competitive. Yeah, that's where we find the most toughest, toughest competitive, competitive challenges. That they make great cars and they work very hard. So when you write in one of the Chinese cars, what do you think? I mean, you're an engineer. You know, what about it? What do you, what do you think? I haven't written it. I have not written in one lately, but. Because they're not all available here. You know, in the US, very, very few are available in the US. Some are available in Europe. But from what my team tells me, they are very good.

Moving moving out out in space. What, what would it take to be self sufficient at Mars? To be self sufficient Mars, it's really about the total tonnage that is delivered to the surface of Mars. So you can say like, well. I think it's probably on the order of a million tons, maybe, maybe more, but somewhere between probably a million tons. And 10 million tons are needed to make Mars and self sufficient. And how many rockets is that? Well, I gave a presentation on this recently. If you look at my recent space X talk, but. If you, if you have 100, it's really. If you have 100 tons per flight, you need 10,000 flights.

To get to a million, a million tons. And that's 100 times landed to the surface of Mars. So in order to get 100 times landed to the surface of Mars, you need 500 times that number in Earth orbit. So we do a lot of orbital refilling. So launching sort of rockets, tank or ships over and over again that that would replenish the propellant of the ships that will go to Mars. And then you need roughly a little bit of 10,000 of them to get to a million tons. And, but we, we plan to do that. That's, that's what we think we can get that done within 20 years. Really. So when you think, so when you think we'll be there for the first time. First, first, well, the first.

Starship that will land on Mars, which obviously would not have people at first. I think it's probably within about five years. And then it would probably launch several ships and just. Confirm that they can land. Okay, on Mars. We'll also be doing the moon simultaneously with that so go taking. I think we'll get people back to the moon, I should say within five years, and we'll get uncrewed ships landed on Mars than five years. And, and then we'll be building up the production rate and approving the design of the booster in the ship. So, so the first people on Mars, I think within seven years or so seven to nine years. And from from there we need to rapidly increase.

We need massive numbers of. Shifts going and earth and Mars only. In the same quadrant of the solar system. Roughly for six months every two years, or at least. It's only possible to really transfer efficiently. From earth to Mars. I say every six months but really there's about a couple months where it's ideal. Every 26 months. So every two years that you would see a fleet depart Mars, I think required a spectacular thing to see. A thousand ships to part from Mars. All the ones like battle, start galactic.

What kind of new technology we need before we'll be self sufficient. Actually, I think we have all the tech we already know all the technology that's necessary for that. It just needs to be just need to build. So no new physics is needed for this. Why is it so important for you. I think it's important for consciousness in general. So if we're sick. I maximize the last bit of consciousness. Then being a multi planet species will result in a much longer. Existence of consciousness consciousness that if we are one planet. If you're on one planet, we're simply fighting our time until. There's eventually a calamity. It could be soon. It could be a long time. But eventually something will happen. It could be global, though, in nuclear war. It could be simply that civilization really subsides. Our civilization may not die with a bag and may die with a whimper. Just gradually. Falling into obsolescence.

But if we're a multi planet species, then we've got two planets. And they can support each other. And we can go beyond two planets ultimately to the moons of Jupiter to the. Beyond to the outer parts of the solar system and ultimately to other star systems. So this tiny, this tiny candle of consciousness that we have. In this past darkness can be extended. And amplified and we're just far more likely to. I survive as for consciousness survive. If we are multi planet species. You don't think it'd be better to use all these resources and try to sort out the earth. Well, just to put this into perspective, the amount of resources I'm talking about for making life multi planetary will be less than 1% of all resources on earth. So really can think of it as resource allocation. Do you think it's worth spending half a percent of earth resources to ensure that we have redundancy and consciousness.

And that we extend consciousness beyond Mars to other planets to tomorrow's another planets and ultimately other star systems. And then also taking to account the fact that there are certain inevitably there's some things we simply cannot avoid on earth. Like is it within your power mind to stop World War three. I don't think so. Oh, if it happens. And if we have global revenue of the warfare, our technology level will drop to the stone age. And we remain ever five. And then there are we maybe get you may get hit like like a comment, like the dinosaurs. And, you know, if the dinosaurs has spaceships they probably still be around. So this and then if you wait long enough the earth that the sun will continue to expand and eventually engulf earth and destroy it and destroy all life.

So just to give it an amount and a certain amount of time, no matter what you do on earth, no matter how careful you are. Both will life or life on earth will die. That will happen is a certainty. Let's zoom in out. X Twitter. Yeah. What is your vision now? What do you how do you see the vision on X. I goal X is to be the best source of truth on the Internet. And I think we're breaking a good, you know, good progress there. I mean, this is going to be like I call everything app like any if anything you want to do you can do on the X platform. Whether it's text, audio, video, payments, financial stuff. Communications of all kinds. And then, but then also where there's publicly disseminated information is to be the best source of truth.

And I think I think it already is that. People may say, oh, there's some piece of misinformation information. I said, yes, but look at the replies. Correct that misinformation and look at community notes and how good the batting average of community notes is it's extremely good. It's by far the best fact checking system on the Internet. So, and a lot of people still labor on the illusion that the legacy newspapers that they read are actually true. There's so much nonsense in them. How many times do you read an article in newspaper where you know the circumstances of what that article is and how often is it spot on. No, of course it's normally, no, of course, we all know it's normally wrong.

But how do you get the situation now, for instance, with with Russia, you know, the work Russia does in Germany with fake accounts on is pretty, pretty huge activity, right? I mean, we don't see a lot of Russian activity, right? On the system. So, we see very little. We do see a lot of a lot of times to influence things, but they seem to be coming from from the West, not from Russia. Right. What about what about things like the latest developments in in Brazil. And so on. Yeah, so, but the. We're, we kept getting these demands from. This judge Alexander. That's his, that's his name on Twitter at Alexander. And there would be to suspend accounts. Immediately we're given typically two hours to suspend an account or face massive fines. And the final, the final story is we were being given demands to suspend setting setting members of the parliament and major journalists. And so, we could not tell them that this was at the behest of. As under the law, we had to pretend that it was due to our rules of service. And that was the final story.

We said, no. Now, when you, when you bought Twitter, now renamed X, did you expect that you would end up in this type of situation? So is, is all unexpected. Well, I knew it wouldn't be. Just a total better roses. You know, and it's talking. I wouldn't. No, I mean, I thought it would be. It says, like, we're just like, rigorously trying to pursue the. The, the, the goal of being the most accurate and truthful place in the internet. And that, that doesn't mean that what is said is always true or accurate, but it is, it is. Perhaps another way to frame it is as the least inaccurate place on the internet. Do you, do you secretly think this is a bit fun? It's fun. Yeah, yeah, it's fun at times. It's stressful at times and it's fun at times. But in overall, we're trying to serve the people of earth. And, and this is sort of an essence, sort of maybe an esoteric way of doing it, but. To try to be kind of like the group consciousness of earth. So you can think of like, if each person is like a neuron contributing to like the collective brain of earth. And you want to try to minimize the noise and maximize the signal of every neuron that's connected to the, the X network. That's basically what is what is the collective will of humanity and the and how to, and how to. Yeah, just serve the collective will of humanity and serve the greater good that that's our goal. Now, you know, there's definitely going to be people who want to manipulate that information and so retro fight that and try to have.

You know, be the most accurate place as part of the best of our ability and have it be kind of a marketplace of ideas where people can propose ideas and. You know, debate them and. I think so far it's working reasonably well in that regard. People that don't like the truth will not like this X or they want to manipulate things they will not like it. But only a few years ago you were you were a guy. For using electric vehicles. Now you are, you know, through Starlink you've had some, you know, I mean, some big impact in Ukraine with Twitter you are kind of. You know, I'm going to be choosing, you know, Brazil India Turkey. You know, you're becoming like a real geopolitical force. And a really important one how do you, how do you look at that. Well, like I said, I'm really trying to. Take this out of actions that maximize the poverty of the future is good. We have to keep civilization going onward and upward as much as possible. And try to minimize the civilizational threats that occur. Like, you know, we can't get to Mars if civilization collapses. It's not going to happen. So, you know, we've got it. We've got to keep. Keep civilization going. And I think we should view our civilization as being much more fragile. Than we think we can kind of take for granted. Oh, it's always going to be there. But actually if you study history realize that there are rise. You know, there's a rise in sports civilizations. I mean, I was reading in depth about the ancient Sumerians. Who were arguably the first civilization if you call civilization like writing and stuff.

You know, they're the first to develop writing. And, but eventually they died out. And they were gone. So, and then nobody could read the writing at all and they just faded out as a civilization. But they're pretty impressive in their time. And the ancient Egyptians, the same thing. And in one sort of one after another, ancient Greek had a resetters day. You know, China and India had will have incredibly impressive populations, but there's been ebbs and flows in the. China and Indian civilizations over the set the Aons. The or the Blenia as well. So, you know, I guess I'm just trying to take this set of the steps that. I think I'm trying to have the political will go where the people wanted to go. You mentioned some. Some really smart people here and. Kind of just moving tack a bit here to corporate culture. Now you manage a lot of. Geniuses in your. In your companies, what is the key to manage really smart people? You think. I don't. I don't think I managed smart people. I don't think I managed smart people. I don't think I managed smart people. I don't think I managed smart people. They managed themselves. I think.

Well, I guess it was really small people. I don't really think of it like managing them. I think that. If somebody is very smart in town to take they can go anywhere and do anything anytime. Like if they don't have to work with me, they could go anywhere. So I really just say like, look, this is the goal we're after. And this is what we're trying to achieve. And do you agree with this goal? And if you do, then let's try to get it done. And. You know, provide my opinion along the way. And once in a while, I say, look, guys, you just got to trust me on. On this one. We got to do this thing. And if it turns out to be a bad decision. You can all hold that against me in the future. But you have an incredible life of detail, right? I mean, when we read the I6 book, it's pretty clear that you really. A deep into detail and know what you talk about.

So how do you how do you balance this kind of micro management of some areas and then delegate. I wouldn't call it micro management. I'm. I wouldn't call it micro management. It's just insisting on attention to detail. That if you're trying to make a perfect product, you must. Have attention to attention, attention to details that essential. And I haven't actually read the I6 book. You should is very good, actually. I love it. Well, I asked all three things and if I should read it, and he said I shouldn't. So then I said, okay, so then I should read it. Okay. Well, I'll ask you some questions from the book. Then they do talk. He talks about, you know, you kind of the hardcore and ultra hardcore culture. What is an ultra hardcore culture? I guess it's work. I mean, it's working culture, right? I mean, how, I mean, ultra hard work.

How hard is that? Well, when things get really intense, you're basically just working every waking hour. And how long can you do that for? I've done that for. Continuously for sometimes like a few years. What does it do to you? It really, it's pain. And everywhere here, maybe it's an exaggeration. Because there are a few hours. Obviously with friends and family and critical other things. But a hundred hour weeks would be, I've done many, many stretches of hundred hour weeks, like true hundred hour weeks. We're roughly six hours per day of sleeping. I would not recommend that. This is not that that's for emergencies. You know, it's not all the time. You know, during very difficult times at Tesla. I've had to do that.

And I sometimes at the beginning of my earlier startups, I did that. Where I just wouldn't leave the office. I would just leave one on my desk and just work seven days a week. Sometimes it's necessary for success or to avoid failure. But do you enjoy being in this crisis mode? No, I don't. It sucks. Okay. I don't want to be there. There's pain. But sometimes it's the difference between success and failure. When you make decisions, how important is speed? He just gave me an idea, which is. I'm going to invite the judge, Alexander. To do a spaces. And then he can explain why what I'm doing is bad and maybe he's right. I challenge. I challenge him to a spaces. Sounds good. Yeah.

But what about when you make decisions, how important is speed and how do you balance analysis with your good feeling? I think the best offense and defense is speed. If you think of something like the S.R. 71 blackbird, it really had almost no defenses except accelerate. And it was never shot down even once. I think over 3000 missiles were shot at the S.R. 71 blackbird and none hit. And really what it was just go faster. So the power of speed is. Underappreciated as a competitive dimension. Is that why. You know, space expenses has been so successful. Because you've been mean and lean as an organization. And fast. I think speed is definitely a factor.
但是当你做决定时,速度有多重要,你如何平衡分析与直觉?我认为速度是最好的进攻和防御。如果你想到像S.R. 71黑鸟这样的东西,它实际上几乎没有任何防御,除了加速。它从未被击落过。我认为超过3000枚导弹被发射向S.R. 71黑鸟,但没有一枚击中。其实就是要更快。所以速度的力量是被低估的竞争因素。这是为什么,你知道,太空探索公司取得如此成功吗?因为你们作为一个组织,既凶狠又迅速。我认为速度绝对是一个因素。

Now I should say you want to go in the case for company. You need to go back to not a scalar. So it can't be you need to go at high speed in the right direction. Sure. So I can't just. And no company is going to be going in the right direction all the time. So you have to do course corrections. Like a guided missile recorded course corrections. And in the case of space X, it's like, okay, our goal is to extend humanity beyond us. And we didn't even know how to even frame the question correctly. Like what. We didn't know that that was a general goal. We didn't know what talent would use or what the raw materials would be or for the, how would the rocket be built? How would it be designed? What's actually. Important. And, you know, so for example, going from our. Falcon architecture, which is. Uses for fine jet fuel and production. It has. Open cycle gas generator architecture engine to a to Starship, which is. A liquid methane liquid auction.

Propulent in a staged combustion. Very high pressure engine. That's a big architectural change. But we didn't know that we needed to make that architectural change until we're pretty far down the road. Like about halfway, but because about 10 years to figure out that was even the right architecture. Now we're confident it is just we were on risk taking in so on. I think space X is one of the best example I know about all what we call failing well right learning from mistakes and moving on. Generally, how do you hold you look at mistakes. Well, I mean, which which ones do you tolerate and which ones don't you tolerate? Well, I think. I don't really think of that way. You know, the first three flights of space X failed. The fourth one succeeded.

And if the fourth one had not succeeded, we would have gone bankrupt. We would have had no money left. So, I think it was very close call. But since then space X has done very well. It's now the park nine knock on wood is the most reliable rocket in the world. And launches about every two to three days. Now, last question on risk. What are the types of risk you would not want to take? Well, I think in terms of risks, you don't you don't want to take risks that way. If you only want to take that the company risks if they're absolutely necessary. So there have been a few times where saying that with Tesla, we just had no choice but to vent the company. Because if we're if we're doing a new vehicle program that is. In order of magnitude.

The last one, then we're just unequivocally betting the company because the new vehicle will be 90% of production. So going from the original Roadster to the Model S original road to was only, you know, about 600. 6, 700 per year. Then Model S was 20,000 per year. And then Model three is sort of half, you know, sort of half a million per year. Model Y over a million per year. So these are all bet the company vehicles. But the reason we could do, for example, the cyber truck, which was kind of a. A radical new design was because it wasn't a bet the company decision. So it's like, okay, look, let's try something. I want to try something totally crazy. It's like what truck would blade runner drive.
最后一个,然后我们就毅然决定赌上整个公司,因为新车型将占据90%的生产量。从最初的Roadster到Model S最初版本,产量只有,你知道,大约600辆。然后Model S增加到每年20,000辆。然后Model 3是大致上一半,你知道,大约每年50万辆。Model Y每年超过一百万辆。这些都是赌上整个公司的车型。但我们之所以能做出像Cybertruck这样的,有些激进的全新设计,是因为这并不是赌上公司的决定。所以就像是,好,让我们试试看。我想尝试一些完全疯狂的东西。就像,银翼杀手会开什么样的卡车。

Something when you're going to drive a loss. Yeah, I think it would be perfect for miles. But like we could try something that where there's some chance that people might not like it. But it's it's radical and new and it's. A static aesthetically, it's not derivative. It doesn't look like anything else on the road. Whereas all the other sort of pickup trucks look like made copies of one another. They were good support to take a chance on failure and say like and talk it up to, you know, well, we tried, you know, we tried to do something interesting. But actually, by the way, cyber trucks doing great. So.

But one of the things that I think is important for innovation is that you do accept failure. Like like necessarily you have to always look at the incentive structure of an organization and say. You know, is it is it is it organization properly in sending innovation and in within it. If you do innovation, you're necessarily going to uncharted territory. So they're going to be some mistakes. They're going to be some failures. And you have to like actually like for SpaceX rocket engine development. Like I keep telling the team look, if we're not occasionally blowing up an engine on the test and we're not trying hard enough. You know, absolutely.

How important are the pea, how important is research and PhDs and that kind of stuff. I think I've said seen some where you think most PhDs are useless. Well, I think most PhD theses are useless, which I think is actually objectively true. If you look at how many PhD. Look at all how many PhDs are created every year and how many of those papers are actually used in anything. Yeah, then objectively most PhDs are have very low utility or maybe zero because nobody uses them. Or so once in a while you get something that is spectacular, but it's pretty rare. Perhaps something more useful is like some in the book that you haven't read talks about your love for gaming in particular, like strategic ability gaming. And I've been thinking quite a lot about it. What have you learned from from those games and have have that learning and wisdom been helpful when you have been planning your companies.

Yeah, I. It's hard to say exactly what I've learned from the games that I do like playing video games as if I want to take my mind off work. I'll typically play a very hard video game. Such as which one. Well, over the years, it's been many, many different video games. So, you know, when I was a little kid, I was like, you know, pong and the little tank games and things and. And if you take a game like, for example, civilization, it's actually quite a good. It tells you how civilizations are formed. Like I remember, I remember playing the original civilization with the technology tree and how you'd vent different things. You'd like invent literacy and. You know, invent democracy and. And then to gun gun power, there will be all these things that like, and you start to realize, oh, wow, there's. There are stages to technology, like you can't. You know, you can't actually get to democracy without literacy. And. You know, so there's these stages of technology development or stages of ideas. That's a. You know, that's a helpful framework for a company.

And I guess in like, like I say, in recent years, there's a game I played that was. Actually developed in Sweden called Polytopia, which is actually quite a good game. Like a lot of people like playing chess, but I think chess is not a great. There's not a lot of transfer learning from chess to the real world because in chess, you've got. Only 64 squares. It's a set piece battle, same pieces every time there are no terrain differences. There's no technology tree. There's no fog of war. But say a game like Polytopia has all of those things, random terrain generation. You know, the differences in attacking defense bonuses depending on what type of terrain. You've got 16 tribes, I think, each with different abilities. You've got a technology tree that you can choose to develop in different ways. And you've got, of course, fog of war. So that I think is much more much closer to reality. Yeah. So I think for Polytopia, I mean, I was playing Diablo for a while. Pretty fun. Diablo at high levels gets very complicated. You could call it like a spreadsheet where the game attached. So that's, that's, and I briefly got the provided day, the world record in this avatar of zero on a four person team. Of clearing the hardest level, which was, you know, not bad for someone who's like 53. Basically, we'll be 53 soon. There is some Twitch element to it. And it's hard to beat kids at games with a Twitch element. But yeah, I like, I find these games interesting if you can be fully immersed in a game. Some last questions here. As you know, we are big shoulders and made a model, a lot of money on our investment. Okay. Okay. Okay. Good. Good to go. Sorry. I can, I think everyone can hear me. Let's see. Thumbs up if you can hear me. Let's try again. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. Now, what is this going on in terms of the union in Sweden and the collective bargaining. Actually, I think, I think the storm has passed on that front. I think things are. I think it's a reasonably good shape in Sweden. So. Yeah, so thanks being so good. Yeah. Overall, yeah, I feel pretty good about the future. I mean, you know, there's going to be bumpy quarters from here and there, but I think the long term future of Tesla is extremely strong. For example. Yeah. I'm back on just so. Yeah, we met with a, we met with your chair last month. So we, we have some update, but any, any of you on it. Why are you, why are you skeptical to.

I was playing with the sound board here. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello, hello. Yeah, last question for me. Sorry, I didn't have the answer because I was out, but we have covered this with, with your chair. But just a last question. What do you want your legacy to be. I don't, I don't mind if my legacy is accurate or inaccurate. I provided that I, I dive. Feeling that I've done the right thing for the future of consciousness. So just trying to, trying to have this, this life consciousness last as long as possible, and maybe understand more about the nature of the universe or simulation or whatever this is. So. I have a philosophy of curiosity, which is to understand the. They understand the universe understand the nature of the universe. Or even what questions to ask. Kind of like the, I would say, I would subscribe to the Douglas Adams, Hijagas guy to the galaxy school of philosophy. That we're trying to understand what questions to ask about the answer that is the universe. Okay, I think that's a good place to end. For sure the life on this planet will have been a lot more boring without you. I'm glad to spice it up a little. Totally. All right, good talking. Bye. Take it off. All right. Bye. Thanks. Bye.