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Andrew Callaghan: Channel 5, Gonzo, QAnon, O-Block, Politics & Alex Jones | Lex Fridman Podcast #425

发布时间 2024-04-14 00:31:40    来源


Andrew Callaghan is the host of Channel 5 on YouTube, where he does street interviews with fascinating humans at the edges of ...



There's two people in the back, two of her home girls wearing like, sheisty masks. I'm like, what are we doing? What, where are we going? And she goes, we're going to go film the riot. We're going to Lake Street. And so we drive down there. Kmart is burning. Target is burning. Everything is on fire. She has the Sony A7. She gives me a microphone and she's like, go talk to that guy. And that was a guy with a Molotov cocktail in his hand who had just burned Kmart down. And so I go, what should I ask him? She goes, what's on your mind? So I walk up to him and I'm like, what's on your mind?
后面有两个人,两个她的女朋友戴着像狡猾的面具。我问自己,我们在干什么?去哪里?她说,我们要去拍暴乱的画面。我们开车去了Lake Street。Kmart正在燃烧。Target也在燃烧。一切都着了火。她拿着Sony A7相机,给我一个麦克风,让我去采访那个人。那个人手里拿着一个燃烧瓶,他刚刚放火烧了Kmart。我问自己,我应该问他什么?她说,问他在想什么。于是我走过去,问他:“在想什么?”

The following is a conversation with Andrew Calligan, host of Channel 5 on YouTube where he does gospel style interviews with fascinating humans at the edges of society. The so-called vagrants, vagabonds, runaways, outlaws from queuing on adherence to fish heads, to ole block residents, and much more. He created the documentary that I highly recommend called This Place Rules on the undercurrents that led to the January 6th Capitol riots. This is the next treatment podcast to support it. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Andrew Calligan.
以下是与Andrew Calligan进行的对话,他是YouTube上Channel 5的主持人,在节目中以福音风格采访社会边缘的有趣人物。这些所谓的流浪者、游民、逃亡者、违法者,从排队吃鱼头,到老街坊居民等等。他制作了一部我强烈推荐的纪录片,名为《这个地方规则》,讲述了导致1月6日国会山暴动的潜在因素。这是下一个治疗播客来支持它。请查看我们描述中的赞助商。现在,亲爱的朋友们,这就是Andrew Calligan。

I tried to color match you though. Got the black and white gun. I went to Walmart before this and got the Wrangler shirt with the Texas Longhorns T-shirt. Is that where you shot Walmart? Generally, yeah, I'm a target man myself. There's no way you get those suits from Target. You see, you're saying it's a nice way to compliment a suit. I think you go men's warehouse if not further. I think you would be wrong. You go further. No, the other direction. You got that from Target, not Target. I was joking about Target. I like Walmart better. It just felt like a funny thing to say. It's not this funny. The most expensive thing I own is this watch, and it was given to me as a gift. Yeah.

When I was on tour, I had these $2,700 Cartier glasses that I got for a lot of money. $2,700. Like sunglasses? Yeah, but they're really embarrassing. But I was on tour, so I just felt like I could do anything as far as fashion choices. But looking back at pictures from myself in that era, I'm like, God. So that was the symbol of the fame got to your head. I think so, yeah. I think it's fame getting to your head. If you spend more than 100 bucks on sunglasses, you've officially gone off. You've crossed a lot, totally. And that's where you go back to Walmart to humble yourself. I really love Walmart. In fact, I moved to Austin because I was a Walmart and a lady said that I look handsome in a suit. And I was like, that's it. I love this place. She just said it for no reason whatsoever. This older lady just kind of looked at me and with this genuine sweetness, just said, oh, you look handsome. She's not wrong, man. Thank you. That's part of your whole swag though. Yeah, the suit thing. Yep.

Anyway, what was the first, if you remember, first recorded interview you did? Well, my first grade teacher, Mrs. Claudia, this is back in the day like I was telling you, we just asked her about her life in Columbia and stuff like that. But I didn't really get into actual journalism until my ninth grade year. I had no idea I had an interest in it. Before then, I wanted to be a rapper. It's all about hip hop and meditation and picking psilocybin mushrooms, public parks and stuff like that. That's what I was into. That's a lot. Psilocybin meditation, rap, public parks. Yeah. I was making conscious rap music. I was to the point where I had like four dream catchers hanging above my bed, Alex Gray painting on the wall, tapestry on the ceiling, just scribbling rhymes down all the time. So you said somewhere that you sucked at school. OK, well, let's step back a little bit.

So I had this amazing journalism course in ninth grade. I went to an alternative high school. And the teacher was named Calvin Shaw. And he was just like, I ended up taking his class all four years. And he used to let me actually leave school. I didn't like going to school. So he'd let me basically go around Seattle and do different interviews with people as long as I could come back by the end of the day and write a story for his class. And he'd mark me as present. So the first article that I wrote was about the Silk Road and the Deep Web. Because as a ninth grader, when I discovered the Hidden Wiki, I thought that I was really tapping into the most secret society elite level black market in the world. And so if you remember they had that Hidden Wiki link, it was like hire a hitman. And so I messaged them and I was like, all right, when I get someone killed at my school, how much is it going to cost me? And I published my interview with the Hidden Wiki hitman. It was probably a fad or something. But who knows? And my first article was called Inside the Deep Web, a conversation with a hitman. That's nice. I mean, you're fearless even then. I mean, I was hiding behind a tour browser. So there's not much fear to be had. Oh, so it was anonymous. It was anonymous. But I did publish it under my name. So you're right, I could have been in danger.
所以,我在九年级上了一门很棒的新闻课程。我读的是一所另类高中。老师名叫卡尔文·肖。我四年都选他的课。他过去容许我离开学校。我不喜欢上学。所以他基本上让我在西雅图四处采访不同的人,只要我能在一天结束前回来写一篇故事给他的课。他会把我标记为出席。我写的第一篇文章是关于丝绸之路和深网的。因为作为一个九年级学生,当我发现了Hidden Wiki,我觉得我正在潜入世界上最秘密的社会精英级别的黑市。那时他们有一个Hidden Wiki链接,像是雇佣杀手。所以我给他们发了消息,说好,我在学校找到人想杀,要花多少钱?我发表了我与Hidden Wiki杀手的采访。那可能只是一时的狂热或什么的。但谁知道呢?我的第一篇文章名叫《深网之内,与杀手的对话》。很棒。我是说,你那时候就无畏了。我当时只是隐藏在一个旅游浏览器后面。所以没有什么可害怕的了。哦,所以是匿名的。是匿名的。但我确实用我的名字发表了它。你说得对,我可能会有危险。

I also saw that he said he took too many shrooms when you were young. And that led you to have hallucinogen persisting perception disorder, HPPD. Can you explain what this is? Well, that condition is classified by persistent visual snow, floaters, morphing objects. Like I see them right now. I see them all the time. This snow is in the room. The snow is definitely in the room. It's all over you. And basically, it wasn't that I took too many shrooms. I think that it was, I took about an eighth of Sennias and smushrooms, which are the ones that come from the earth instead of cow shit. And I took an eighth of those at my friend Toby's house, and which is a normal amount, but I was in eighth grade. So I woke up the next morning with these extreme visual distortions. And I thought that it would go away. I tried to make it go away, but there was really no cure for HPPD. It's a lifelong condition. So it's just a matter of dealing with it and realizing that it is only visual. So when people ask me, hey, I have HPPD, how do I cope with it? I say, remember that every other sense that you have what you can hear and what you can taste, your feet on the ground, you're still on earth. You're still here. Well, he said it's only visual. And yes, gratitude for being alive at all. Yes. It's great. But you said that this led you into some dark psychological places like depersonalization disorder. Depersonalization is the feeling that you are not real, but that reality still exists. Derealization is the idea that reality itself is an illusion created by your mind and that you're the only person alive. And that everything that your brain is projecting to your visual cortex is a lie and that you're the only living human being. Both are pretty intense. HPPD creates both of those things. And so when I've talked to people who have the condition, it's really either or, but more than 70% of people with HPPD fall into either category. They're both coping mechanisms for the, I don't know what really happens. I talked to a researcher once named Dr. Abraham. He lives in upstate New York. He's the leading scientists when it comes to HPPD research. He's the only one who actually seems to care about finding a cure. And the only known treatment right now is alcohol and benzodiazepines. That's not good. Right. So alcoholism, something that came into my life pretty early, alcohol abuse as a result of that experience because that helps with the visual symptoms, makes some of the static go away. Never tried benzod though. So can you explain to me where in that spectrum you are? Like, do you sometimes have a sense that you're not real? Sometimes something else is not real. Like the reality is not real. Yeah, I experience it all the time, you know. But like I said, my job helps with that because I get to feel like, you know, when you seek out extremes to a certain extent and you put yourself on the front lines of intense events, whether it be politically or socially, or just dive into deep fringe subcultures, you get this feeling that you're real.

And being filmed is also confirmation, if you can look at the MP4 file that you're in fact living here on Earth. Confirming that you were in it with reality by watching a cell phone video. Exactly. So is that basically the engine behind all the extreme interviews you've done? Well, I got HPPD around the same time that I began this journalism course in ninth grade. So I sort of always use journalism as a therapeutic mechanism to deal with some of these symptoms, especially depersonalization. There's some pretty good illustrations of what it feels like. Kind of feels like you're trapped behind your eyes or that you're just this like nebulous soul that's trapped in a flesh suit that you're not really a part of. You're sort of puppeteering a flesh and bone skin suit. Trapped? Or just the ability to step outside of yourself? You feel like your soul is not something that is connected to your body. It's something living in your head. It's really hard to explain to people who haven't gone through derealization or depersonalization. But if you go on support groups, they always say like, how do I break free from behind my eyes? Like dark stuff like that. Also you're trapped. I mean, there's a higher state of being through meditation that you can kind of step outside of yourself. But this is not that.

Unfortunately, it was kind of the meditative path or the Eastern path that I took and kind of fused that with psychedelic culture in Seattle that took me down the psychedelic use rabbit hole in the first place. So like I'd say it all started with Siddhartha. Siddhartha, that's a good book. Have you done Shroom since then? No, I don't really do psychedelic drugs. But like a lot of people think that I'm against them which I'm not just doesn't work for me. If it works for you, I'm sure that can be really fun. Especially I know there's lots of like therapeutic uses for acid and ketamine and psilocybin. But I personally abstain from those kind of anything psychotropic I try to stay away from. Drinking a bit. Well, yeah, I mean, I didn't drink it all before I had the HPPD stuff. And I would have drank later in life but definitely like 14, 15 every day after school I drink a 40 ounce of Mickey's.

It's like a kind of looks like old English but the bottle's green and it has a hornet on the side of it. Just kind of became a ritual just to deal with the anxiety of that situation. And it made the snow go away? Yeah, alcohol really works to suppress HPPD symptoms. So you said you hated classes in school except that journalism class. Okay, we need to clear this up because on my Wikipedia page for some reason for Andrew Callahan early life, it says Andrew hated every single class except for one. So I've had a bunch of teachers who are super cool. Like this guy Tim, my astronomy professor at ninth grade. Mrs. Zenetti, my creative writing teacher in sixth grade. And this really cool dude at my college in New Orleans named Charles Cannon who taught me a class called New Orleans Mythology. My three favorite classes besides my journalism class and they all hit me up. And they're like, hey man, saw you said you hated every class. I'm sorry I couldn't be everything that you wanted me to be. And so I just wanna say shout out to all those teachers. I didn't hate every class.

The point that I was making is that being forced into the institution of school so young and having to take common core classes like biology, dissecting frogs, history of the Han Dynasty, stuff like that that I didn't want to learn but I had to learn multiple times. I mean, I learned about the dynastic cycle in ancient China. Three separate times at three different schools. And I was like, who is writing this curriculum and why is it so important that I understand this process? Yeah. The part that makes school difficult, especially in college is that you have people just going to school just to get the degree who don't really know exactly what they're interested in and they don't even have time to figure that out because they're in a business program or a communications program with no specific interest. Well, I think if you wanna do school right, take on every single subject that you're forced into. It's like the David Foster Wallace, just be unborable by it. Just really going as if ancient Chinese dynasties are the most interesting thing you could possibly learn.

And it is somewhat interesting to Silk Road and the Great Wall and Terracotta soldiers and stuff. But I'm just saying like when I got to college, I signed up for journalism school, right? And I didn't get to take a media class until the second semester and I had to take everything prior to that and I'd already spent so much time. I just think the excruciating boredom of schooling left a bad taste in my mouth. But there was individual classes that I liked a lot. Yeah, there should be some choice or maybe a lot of choice even at the level of high school for what kind of classes you pursue. Yeah, for sure. And you're also saying so Wikipedia is not always perfectly right. No, but it's just interesting because I've said so much in podcasts but that's what they isolated.

And I've gotten that question before, which I understand it's the first thing on my Wikipedia page, but it makes me sound like a super hater. Have you ever seen this Instagram page called depth of Wikipedia? Oh, that's great. Oh, it's so good, dude. You said you love journalism. What did you love about journalism? I mean, what hooked you? On a basic level, everybody wants media coverage, right? Everyone likes to be on camera and get exposure for whatever they're doing. And so being a journalist and being almost like a portal for exposure for people allows you to be on the front row of everything that you want to be a part of.

You get to be in the front row for history as it's unfolding because everyone wants to be covered. So being a journalist gives you a ticket to everywhere that you want to go in life. And so it allows you to step into different realities almost and then go back to yours. And it just keeps life interesting. Buy the ticket, take the ride. Hunter S Thompson is Z up there and is one of the influences. Who are your influences? I think the early Daily Show was so good. Sasha Baron Cohen, huge influence. I mean, that was like the Ali G Show especially.

I think Louis Thoreau's broadcasts on BBC were great. I was really into Hunter S Thompson too, but not really until college. You know, I really like a particular Hunter S Thompson book called The Great Shark Hunt, where he covers the Ruben Salazar murder by LAPD or LA Sheriff's Department in Boyle Heights in the 70s. And his relationship with his lawyer, Oscar Acosta, and that whole saga is great. Fear and loathing, I like, but not as much as his straightforward reporting. Cause there's the Gonzo side of Hunter where he's like saying he's taking drugs and seeing shit.

And there's the other side of him, which is like an actual reporter interested in telling a story that has news value. So it's two different lanes for him. There is something about you that makes people want to say you're the Hunter S Thompson of this generation. And I don't think they mean the drugs. I think they mean some kind of non-standard willingness to explore the extremes of humanity. And like almost the celebration of the extremes of humanity.
他还有另一面,就像是一个真正对新闻价值感兴趣的记者,想要讲述一个故事。所以对他来说,有两种不同的道路。你身上有一些特质让人们觉得你是这个时代的汉特·汤普森(Hunter S Thompson)。我不认为他们指的是吸毒。我认为他们是指一种非标准的愿意探索人类极端的精神。差不多是在庆祝人类极端的特质。

Yeah, well, it's a very kind comparison. I'll get there one day maybe. I just went to Aspen on a little Hunter S Thompson recon trip to go check out the Woody Creek Tavern, which is the spot that he was like his bar near his cabin. And it was pretty cool to see. Unfortunately, it's kind of turned into not a dive bar now, but it's a sit down sort of country restaurant, but it was cool. But I expected to see a bunch of gnarly Hunter S Thompson types.

What's he doing drugs and alcohol is all part of it somehow. Yeah. So it opens a gateway to a deeper understanding of humanity. But I will say though, like as someone now who doesn't party like I did when I was younger, it's not as important as I thought it was. You know, yeah, I'm conflicted on this. I'm good friends with a lot of people that say alcohol is really bad for you. And I believe that too. But there's something that I've just as an introvert as a person who has a lot of anxiety. For me, alcohol has opened doors of like just opening myself up to the world more.

Oh, I'm actually a fan of alcohol, moderate drinking. But I'm saying like my life before, I would say 2019, 2018 especially, there was the chaos on camera, but then there was my private life, which was like chaotic partying all the time. Oh, I see. And I convinced myself much like Hunter did, that that was the secret sauce that in the core, the spiritual, in my spiritual core, that gave me the creativity. But then I cut out a lot of that stuff and I'm just as creative. And it's interesting that a lot of, I think one of the hardest parts about addiction is that if you're functioning, highly creative, addict of any kind, your brain and your addictive part of your brain convinces yourself that it's all part of the cross-purpose and that it has this like symbiotic, inspirational thing going on, but it's not true. It can be, but it's typically not.

Yeah, it's not a requirement. You can sometimes channel, you can sometimes leverage all those things for your creativity, but the creative engine it lives outside of that. Like have you read that Hunter's a daily routine and a year up to his death? It was like 15 grapefruits and apolic oak and just like a certain amount of shotgun shells for him to fire into the sky every morning? Yeah. There's no way, and he didn't do anything creative in those final years. Yeah. But so the creativity goes away and gradually you just become like a party animal, like Andy Dick. A caricature of yourself. Yeah. I mean, that's why life is interesting. You make all kinds of choices and sometimes you can have, create works of genius in a shorter amount of time based on drugs and no drugs. Einstein had that miracle year where he published several incredible papers in one year in 1905.

Did he do drugs before that? Lots of coke and. I was like, I believed you for a second. I'm like, Einstein have bloke. I don't think he did. I do think he gets that hair. Come on, it's true. I'm just asking questions. High confidence hair. Look into it. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, no, he's a well put together sexy young man. The hair came later. Yeah, was Albert Einstein attractive as a teenager? Not teenager, was he attractive as a young man? Sexually attractive. I mean, I'm turned on by Einstein at all ages. I don't discriminate. But are you more turned on by the work that he did or his physical being? No, sometimes I fantasize what it would be like to be in the arms of Einstein.

Could even get that out. Yeah. The arms of Einstein. Yeah, just I want to feel safe. That's a good idea for a rom-com. It'd be a little more serious, like general relativity that space, time can be unified and curved by gravity is an incredibly wild and difficult idea to come up with. It's a really, really difficult thing to imagine. Given how well Newtonian classical mechanics physics works for predicting how stuff happens on Earth, to think like that gravity can get more space-time, both space and time. And it permeates the entire universe. It's a field. It's a really wild idea to come up. It's one human on Earth doing two of that is really, really, really difficult. And it's really sad to me that he didn't get a Nobel Prize for that.

Was there people saying he was crazy when he was around? Or was he universally recognized as like another G of us? No, I think once the papers came out, he was widely recognized as a true genius. But before that, he wasn't recognized. He had a really difficult. So back now, where does a black hole go? Like after something gets sucked into it? You mean, is it a port up to another place, that kind of thing? Yeah. No. Well, we don't know. It could be that the universe is kind of like Swiss cheese full of black holes. There's something called Hawking radiation where the, because of quantum mechanics, the information leaks out of a black hole. So it is possible to escape a black hole. There's a lot of interesting questions there. I hope we get to the bottom of that. And there's a super massive black hole at the center of our galaxy, which doesn't seem to scare physicists, but it terrifies me. Oh yeah, for sure. Astronomy can be terrifying. Yeah, we're all like orbiting. I mean, we're not just orbiting the sun, but the sun is part of the solar system. It was part of the galaxy. And it's orbiting a gigantic black hole. Have you ever spoke to someone who's been out of space? Jeff Bezos, he flew his own rocket.

Wow. That's pretty cool. Astronaut has been to deep space, no. Well, maybe I've spoken to an alien that just hasn't admitted it. I want to do a research paper or like a report about space madness. You know, it's supposed to be this like torturous feeling that you get when you look away from Earth and into the abyss after you've exited Earth's orbit or whatever. Because there's one specific psychiatrist who knows how to deal with space madness. And I want to figure out how to interview people with it. Is this a real thing? Like is there a Wikipedia article on it? Yes, look up space madness treatment. Now I don't trust Wikipedia after what you told me so. And now they think I hate classes. I thought you meant more about the fact that you're isolated out in space that we need social connection and it's difficult. Yeah, I think it's just a feeling of extreme and insignificance that you might get sometimes when you look at the night sky, but it's that times a thousand. It's like an existential void that's created after looking into the abyss and then realizing how small Earth is in the grand scheme. You just start to really have a strange new perception about the pointlessness of existence. I don't need to go to space for that. I mean, only a handful of people have been to space, but I'm sure they're all pretty well off. So this psychiatrist has to be like in the multi-millions. Well, technically we're all in space because Earth isn't space, but so I wonder if you have to go to space to talk to the psychiatrist. Yeah, probably so. Well, technically we're all in space. So that's a boundary he can't have. But not everyone believes that as you've seen from my work probably. You're right. And those are important people that are asking important questions. Yeah. You hitchhiked across US for 70 days when you were 19. Right. Tell the story of that. Well, this sort of connects to what I was talking about with the boredom of school and these common core classes.

So after my first year of school where I lived in the dorms, like an old school dormitory building at a school in New Orleans called Loyola University, I wanted to just do something. I felt so bored. I was working for the school newspaper for that whole first year. It was called the Maroon. And I didn't have the ability to write my own stories. Like I had a defer to an older editor and they would give me stories to write about. And they were all about like on-campus happenings. Like the Pope visits New Orleans or glass recycling to be restored in the French Quarter or hoverboards banned on campus due to safety concerns. And it just kind of felt like, all right, I kind of wanted to be a Gonzio reporter. I'm not sure if working my way up to the traditional newsroom hierarchy is gonna get me to that point.

So I started reading a bunch of old hobo literature, you know, like post World War II, vagabonding stuff. And there was this book called Vagabonding in America by an old hobo Ed Byrne. And I read this and it just basically, obviously some of it was outdated. They had stuff and they're like the hobo code, like, oh, this moniker on the side of offense means this person has free soup or something like that. They didn't have stuff like that. But what it did tell me, it told me about train stop towns, like Dunsmore and, you know, places in Montana where there was a friendly attitude toward drifters and that still persists from the 60s and 70s to this day.

Even though, in my opinion, movies like Texas, Chantel, Massacre have ruined hitchhiking culture in America because now everyone thinks you're gonna, you know, decapitate them if they pick you up. So after my final day of courses at Loyola, I literally left all of my belongings inside my dorm and took the street car to the Greyhound station, got a one-way ticket to Baton Rouge. And I was like, I'm gonna hitchhike across the whole country back to Seattle with no money. And that was the plan and it worked out. I love it. I traveled across the United States before in similar kind of plan.

Because you weren't- Were you on the silver dog? So it's the Greyhound bus. Greyhound is pretty nice. That's a step above hitchhiking. That's way better than hitchhiking. Hitchhiking, Greyhound Amtrak. Airline. Amtrak, no, that's the leadest. What's in between Greyhound and Amtrak? A car. That's what it is. Yeah, it's a car. A shitty car. Okay, cool. Yeah, I lived in a shitty car. You lived in a car? Yeah, when I was driving across the United States. Solo? With a friend, some solo. And I would have, I would eat cold soup. I love cold soup. What I like is the cold chickpeas and I can. So you get the water out and just dump them in your mouth. Those are good beef jerky, kind bars. Kind bars are really good for the road.
因为你不是- 你是坐在银色狗上吗?所以这是灰狗巴士。灰狗非常不错。这比搭便车要好。比搭便车好太多了。搭便车、灰狗、Amtrak、航空公司。Amtrak,不,那太奢侈了。灰狗和Amtrak之间有什么?汽车。就是汽车。是一辆破烂的车。好的,很酷。嗯,我曾经住在一辆破烂的车里。你住在车里?是的,我在横穿美国的时候。独自一人?和朋友一起,有时候是独自。我会吃冷汤。我喜欢冷汤。我喜欢冷鹰嘴豆和我。你把水倒掉,然后把它们扔进嘴里。那些好牛肉干,酸果仁棒。酸果仁棒在路上非常好。

Yeah, I mean, all of that is great, but too much of it is not great. Like too much cold soup. Not great, too much beef jerky. So what was the route you took? Was it Chicago across or was it Philadelphia across? Philadelphia across. To LA or where? San Diego's will end up, but it was this exacting. Went up to Chicago and then all the way down to Texas. So you went Philly through Appalachia up to the Midwest. Yep. Did you cut over, like through the Southwest down to San Diego? No, no, no, went straight down to Texas. All the way down to the West. So like.

But did you cut from Texas West through New Mexico and Arizona to get to San Diego? Yeah. That is the best road trip place. Interstate 40, like Albuquerque Flagstaff, Vegas, Kingman, the Mojave Desert, Yuma, doesn't get better. Yeah, I mean, in your kids, so you don't care. And you would throw in caution to the wind. I met some crazy, crazy people. It gives me some sanity. Like whenever I'm feeling kind of out of control or, you know, like bummed out, I just remembered that the road is still out there. The open road never goes anywhere. And it's kind of like a, I see like an invisible door in the corner of the room all the time that makes me more comfortable. Cause I'm like, hey, at the end of the day, bummed out, I can go hit the road. And I'm sure there's going to be a fun time ahead.

Yeah, get that Greyhound ticket and go. I would say silver dog half, because sometimes I got to ride the dog when no one will pick me up. There's some places in the country where no one's going to pick you up. Yeah. Kansas, Missouri, they're not going to do it. Hey, if you're not charming enough, you thought about that? I was 19, fresh, clean-shaven. Yeah. I was pretty charming, I'd say. All right. But the older you get, the harder it is to hitchhike because they think you're like an escaped convict or some type of psycho wanderer. And some of these people are like, what we call punishers, people who never stop talking. And so they see someone hitchhiking and they're like, yes, I'm going to talk at this person. And you can tell they're either-wide, they're like, what's up? And you're like, oh shit. So it's six hours of just like, oh cool, nice. That's rough. Yeah, yeah. You're right, you're right. I like people that are comfortable in silence. Yeah. But then that also raises the question, are they about to kill me? You know what I mean? I think that's a you problem, not a.

You know what's funny is almost everybody who picked me up when I was hitchhiking, it was like a day laborer. Like, it was almost all Mexican day laborer who picked me up. Oh, interesting. Because I think that like in some places down there, that's a typical thing to do. Hitchhike to work. A lot of people don't have cars, but they still have to get to their jobs. So a lot of people ask me, hey, where should I drop you off? Where's your job at? And I'm like, my job is to explore and they were down with it. See, like for me, it was really easy because you just say like, I'm traveling across the United States. And I think people love that idea. And they want to help. They romanticize it. Because they also have that invisible door. Everybody has that invisible door, I just want to go. So you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I mean, I don't think. It can anchor you a bit just to remind you that every pattern that I've fallen into is voluntary and it's from my own stability and mental health.

Well, that's why I'm like renting everything and I'm gonna be sure that tomorrow I can just go. I gave away everything I own twice in my life. Just very like, I'm ready to go tonight. Let's go. What's the hardest item you've had to part with in this experience? There's nothing. You've never had a material object that was really hard to let go of?

So you give that watch to somebody if it meant anything. No, this, you're right. You're right. That's probably the only, I've never had to let go of that though. That's the only thing I own. This doesn't mean a lot to me, but they're everything else. But then again, listen, because okay, this watch is given to me by Rogan. This has become a close friend. But like, whenever I romanticize the notion that this watch means a lot to me, it means like, oh my God, I'll just get you the same one again. Yeah. I was like, God damn it. It's a pretty sick ass gift though. Yeah, it's pretty sick. I'm not usually a gift guy, but you know, when somebody you look up to kind of gives you a thing, it's a nice little symbol of that relationship. So it's nice. But other than that, no. But even this, like whatever, the relationship is what matters. The human is what matters, not the.

I agree 100%. You had something like this? Not really. I mean, there was a hard drive that I lost that had all of my childhood pictures on it and stuff like that that I think about all the time, because I left it on a train. And like, certain memories you think about it, you just get pissed off and just think to myself, someone has that somewhere. I have dreams about reuniting with the hard drive. You and Hunter Biden have the smoke crack. I don't think he wants to reunite with that one.

Okay. Dude, it's crazy. You know, all he did was smoke crack, right? Are there more stuff going on? I think there's prostitutes involved. Oh, okay, whatever. I think you got to look into it. I think I have to look into it too. I don't know. Was CareWack, a Jack CareWack, and somebody that wasn't an inspiration at all, in this road trip? Did you even know who that is? The B generation all this? I didn't know who it was. And then after I did the.

Ultimately, I wrote a book about my hitchhiking experience years later. And everyone was like, have you read on the road? And then on the road, I probably heard the title of that book every day at least 10 times for two years. And I'm sure CareWack is a great guy. I mean, I just don't. I'm not too familiar with the beat generation. That's a great book. It's a. You read it or no?

I refuse to read it. People even have gifted it to me and been like, hey man, you're gonna love this one. And I'm like, is that on the road? If I honestly, people have given me a book with wrapping paper on it. And they're like, this is Reddit rally.

I was like, that's fucking on the road, isn't it? Give you a different cover. Yeah, no, I'm like, anything but that. But I'm sure it's a great book. It's just the comparison thing drives me crazy. Respect, respect to CareWack. Would never speak down on the whole. Anyone in the beat generation. What are some interesting moments you remember from that? Little 70 days.

Man, there was so much. I mean, getting mistaken for a gay prostitute on my first hitchhiking ride. I can see that. And Louisiana was pretty funny. Where did you come from and where did you go? Well, I mean, the journey began in Baton Rouge. And the first destination was Houston, which is about four and a half hours west on Interstate 10.

So, I mean, Crowley, Louisiana, I'm on the side of the road. And I guess this was a cruising truck stop. It was known for being a place where male lot lizards would go to procure clients. And I was there. Lot lizards are. It's a derogatory term and trucker culture for a prostitute who hangs out at the loves or a pilot flying J. Large interstate truck stops.

Now, trucker culture, as it once was, is pretty much finished because of the live stream cameras they have inside of the trucks now. So, you can't snort suit a fit or pick up anybody. You can't even pick up a hitchhiker or you get fired. Killed all the romance. Yeah, definitely. The old school outlaw trucker lifestyle, unless you're an owner operator, who's not even in a union, which is like a real cowboy-weighted hall loads, you can't do that.

You were mistaken for a lot lizards. We were mistaken for a lot lizard by a small man from Honduras with a spiky leather jacket covered in studs. Didn't speak any English, but I thought he was just a nice guy. And then he pulled over at a. There's private theaters in the south where they have confessional booths set up and they have three channels and people go in there and.

It's porn? Yeah, people go in there and, you know, please, yeah. That's right, uh-huh. So, I thought he was taking me to one of those. I was like, all right, cool, man. Yeah, like, you know, like, this guy wants to go jerk off. I'm just gonna wait in the car. It's all good. I don't discriminate. But then I was like, he buys a booth for me. And I'm like, okay, you know.

It's not really in the mood to watch porn with this random guy. So he gets in the same booth as me. And he starts jerking off right next to me. And I'm like, oh man, like. I don't think this is chill. I'm like, dude, can you stop? I'm like, can you stop jacking off? And he's like, what do you mean? Like, I thought this is what you wanna do. Like, I have money for you. Like, what's that? And I was like, oh no, I'm just a regular guy. He was super cool about it. He started laughing and he was like, oh, my bad, man. I thought you were, you know, selling something. I said, no, and he said, oh, it's all good. And he gave me a ride all the way to Houston.

That's great. Yeah, we talked about anything except that for the rest of the car ride. It's great. There's just rolled with it. Oh, sorry about that. It could have been, I had about a foot in the house. Honestly, guys, I wasn't too scared. I also had like a knife in my pocket, but I didn't wanna stab him, especially not at a place like that. And you were still, that didn't like leave a bad taste in your mouth. Well, I figured that can happen again. It can't keep happening. So I was like, all right, if I got this out of the way the first ride, the following rides are gonna be spectacular. Yeah, I mean, who among us have not been mistaken for a lot of lizards? It's a fact you heard here first. What else? What are some interesting, beautiful people that you've met a long time ago?

Well, you used to have a couch surfing to find places to stay in the couch surfing. Now you can only submit like five couch surfing requests a day unless you're a premium member, which means you also host people. Couch surfing is still wrong. Yeah, yeah, totally. Oh, nice. But it's evolved obviously into a different thing. Airbnb is the kind of competitor to that, right? Couch surfing is free though. Right. So couch surfing, they call it like the CS community. So basically there'd be these like couch surfing super hosts in different cities. Like there was one in Santa Fe, this firefighter dude who had like 15 other couch surfers there, chilling. Nice. So I would do it everywhere. A lot of them were Catholics, you know. So was there a way of giving back? A lot of them were nudists. And so I didn't realize that there's a small little section at the bottom of someone's couch surfing profile that says clothing optional. Yes. And that means if you go there, I thought it meant like it's cool if you walk to the bathroom and you're underwear.

No, if you go there, everyone's going to be butt naked. So I made that mistake a few times. Not that I'm anti-nudist, but I didn't want to, you know, I wasn't ready to take that leap of faith. And yeah, it was just great. Couch surfing hosts were amazing. That was just great. It was this constant thing where I felt like, wow, people are so welcoming. I'm not having to pay them a dollar for this experience. Yeah, I love couch surfing. For like, again, for me being an introvert, just crashing on a person's couch, being essentially forced into a great conversation is great. Yeah. The one thing that gets exhausting about hitchhiking is constantly thanking people. You know, being in like sort of constant, superficial gratitude everywhere all the time. Like, oh, thanks for letting me sleep on your couch. Thanks for the food. Yeah.

Part of the reason I wanted to live in an RV later in life is to avoid having to constantly live in this like, thanks so much type of frequency, cause it's exhausting to constantly, but hey man, thanks. I think the shallowness of that interactions exhausting, not just the, not the thanks. Yeah, it was a true favor. Of course, I love giving people gratitude for that. But just this thing where everyone who picks you up, you get eight rides a day, you're like thanking eight people a day, like the second coming of Jesus. You start to feel a little bit debased. What'd you learn about people from that journey? That's your first time really kind of going into it. The American public is just so kind overall. I mean, they're so like embracing, depending on who you are.

And specifically though, the Christian family people of the US who drive in many vans and have that fish sticker on the back where it's like, Jesus fish and then they have the family sticker, you know, where each member of the family is a stick figure. Those people never picked me up and would flip me off with their whole family. Sometimes they would throw full doctor peppers at me as a family while I stood on the side of the road. As a family together. They would yell shit like, go to hell hippie when I was on the side of the road. And so it's weird that the most charitable Christian, American family values people never gave me any charity or even conversation. They were antagonizing me and saw me as like a hippie left over from the 60s when you needed to go to work, go to Vietnam. I don't get it.

But the people who really extended a hand to me is people on the margins. People working on seasonal visas, people whose cars have, you know, less than a quarter tank left, people struggling with addiction, who saw me struggling, or at least they thought that I was because they assumed I was hitchhiking, not out of adventure, but because I had no car. And we're willing to sacrifice their day almost sometimes to take me exactly where I needed to go. That's beautiful, man.

I've had similar kind of experience that people were struggling the most of the ones who are willing to help you when you're struggling. Yeah. There's people like in religious context and other kind of communities that just judge others because they've kind of constructed a value system where they're better than others because of that value system. And that actually has a cascade that forces you to actually be kind of a dick. Yeah, I never thought about that way. It's so true.

Do you think about morality and religion a lot? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been to certain parts of the world where religion is really a big part of life. I'm just always skeptical about tribes of people that believe a thing and that believe they're better than others because they believe that thing. That could be nations, that could be religions. Yeah.

I mean, in Ukraine and Russia, I was seeing a lot of hate towards the other. Yeah. And that hate, I'm always very skeptical of because it could be used by powerful people to direct that hate just so the powerful people can maintain power and get money, that's kind of stuff. It's a scary thing to see how easy it is for high up political people to mobilize the hate of just the average working person and can almost convince them to sabotage their own countrymen who they share more in common with than the politician they look up to just to advance the agenda of one party. That's what we're seeing now. Are there some places in America that are better than others? Can you speak negatively of like a four mentioned Joe Rogan, talk shit about Connecticut, nonstop. Is there another, can you pick a region in the United States you can talk shit about?

Talk shit about? Oh, for sure. Or from that experience, let's just narrow it down to that. Oh, Colorado. Oh, geez. Really? Yes. I know so many people that love Colorado. Dude, Dallas, Denver, I used to think Phoenix sucks but I love Phoenix now. The way they build these cities to just be so circular and massive, it's just like stopping. You don't like circles? I like grids, man. Oh, you're a grid guy. Manhattan, New Orleans, San Francisco. What is it about grids that bring out the worst in people?

Circles is wherever we just, there's a. Everyone's just vibing out. Yeah. The grid gets people locked in and hateful. I don't know, man, but. I've never heard anyone talk shit about Colorado, I have to say. It's kind of refreshing. Yeah. It provides a necessary balance for the Colorado Wikipedia page. Yeah, Oregon too. I got problems with Oregon. Oregon. Yeah. Well, here's the issue. You have, and I don't like just calling people racist cause it's kind of like a two dimensional insult but you have the most racist state but the most psychotic anarchist city in the middle of it. What is going on up there? How did this happen? The yin and the yang is so extreme that there must be something in the, in the willamid. What do you have against anarchism?

I have nothing, I used to be an anarchist. When I was in eighth grade, I had this friend named Mads who was part of a group called Seattle Solidarity, which is like an antifa precursor. So I grew up like going to black block protests and I mean, there was a particular shooting. The murder of John Williams, who was a Native American woodcarver in downtown Seattle. He got killed by a Seattle police officer named Ian Burke. John Williams was carving a pipe from a wood block with a pocket knife. He's deaf in one ear. Officer pulls a gun on him and says, put it down. He doesn't hear him, he shoots him six seconds later.

So that police involved shooting is what instantly turned me into like a very critical of law enforcement kind of person when I was super young. And so as someone who used to see this guy who got murdered was a 55 year old man. I used to see him around Pike Place where my mom lived. It's a public market in downtown. That to me put me into the anarchist political sphere because just channeling the anger of that experience and the officer got no charges by the way. You can look up the video, it's horrific. You know, and it didn't get reported. The officer I'm pretty sure is still active duty. And so it's like situations like that early in life channeled me toward political extremism. But I grew up to realize how incompatible that an artistic worldview is with reality and with the American society. It can only exist in a small little chamber. You know, you can't apply that to the industrial heartland of the country.

And I think also anarchism, so I've gotten to know Michael Malice who's written quite a bit about anarchism. And it's also exists as a body of literature about different philosophical notions that kind of resist the state, the ever expanding state in different kinds of ways. And it's always nice to have extreme thought experiments to understand what kind of society we want to build. But implementing it may not necessarily be a good idea. Yeah, I mean, Emma Goldman, I'm a huge fan of her writing. Also the prison abolitionists that are associated with the anarchist movement, Angela Davis, Ruth Wilson Gilmore. All that stuff, influential. I still adhere to a lot of those principles when talking about stuff like radical prison reform and stuff like that. But just, I drifted more toward having a more open mind as I got older. Extremism implemented in almost all of its forms is probably going to cause a lot of suffering. Yeah.

You worked as a doorman on the, I could say legendary bourbon street in New Orleans. Where you saw what you described as, this might be another Wikipedia quote, by the way. But this is where I do my research. It's just say, hellish scenes. Hellish scenes and quotes. Wikipedia is damn right about that. All right, thank you. That's a win. That's one in the win column. So yeah, tell the story of that. What's it like to work on bourbon street? What kind of stuff did you see? I mean, I was a host at a fine dining restaurant that on the corner of bourbon and Iberville. So that's the first street, if you go from Canal Street onto the quarter. So this is like across from like a daiquiri spot. It's the middle of the tourist corridor of New Orleans. And the spot was kind of like, and kind of a tourist trap, it was called Bourbon House. The food was good. Chef Eric, I don't want you to see this and think you don't make good and dewy sausages, but it was overpriced. And so I had to, we had to maintain this like fine dining facade on a street where almost everyone is like throwing up, fighting or is half naked.

So there was this policy. We had these giant glass windows next to the tables. So if you're eating at a bourbon house, you can look out onto Bourbon Street and you can see as you're dining a full panoramic view of all these partiers, throwing beads, boobs, all that. We had this policy where if we're serving someone, we can't look onto Bourbon Street if something crazy is happening. So there's a fight or something like that. We can't look, right? So there is a dude, I remember I'm fucking serving a table. There's a dude in a Batman mask, butt naked with 12 pairs of beads, just jerking it. Yeah. Back to jerking it. He's jerking it, right? And every single person at the restaurant's looking out there like, look, they're taking pictures. And the manager, Steven, looks at me, he's like, keep your fucking eyes on the table. Some serving these people, you know what I'm like, you like red beans and rice? Or would you like some Creole fucking doughnut? And there's just this dude and ultimately the manager went out and escorted him further down Bourbon Street. But you know, I would get off work at around midnight every night and that was when Bourbon Street is at its most chaotic.

And so I lived in the French Quarter as well. So I lived about 12 blocks down Bourbon in a small Creole cottage and a cute little like orange, old school New Orleans, one story spot. I lived in the attic above these gay meth dealers named Frankie and Johnny. Oh wow. And so I would get off work and I would basically have to walk through like this battlefield. I mean, it was a battlefield, getting home was out of like the Warriors movie. It was almost the best of humanity on display. Yeah, it was like Kensington, Philadelphia, but just alcohol, you know what I mean? Oh, it's all alcohol. But it's a lot of visitors, right? From outside. Almost all visitors. Yeah. And that kind of would set the flow for the weekend. For example, if the Raiders were playing the Saints, Raider Nation and they do not play around, if it's the Patriots, that's a whole different crowd. They think they're better than everybody else. Yeah, well, they technically are better than everybody else. But yeah.

But people from Massachusetts aren't like the cream of the crop in terms of like American superiority. Strong words, yep. No offense, but I mean. No, I'm sure they won't take that as. They are good at fighting, though. I'll tell you that. All right, great. New England has hands compared to some places. Which places are those Colorado? Colorado has no hands. Yeah. The West Coast, not too much hands. That's why you feel safe talking shit about Colorado. But if you get to the corn fed parts of East Colorado, these guys get hands bigger than my head. They'll be the shadowy. But anyways, I'd walk back to my house on Bourbon Street. And I would be sifting through this battlefield. And I had a friend at the time who's like, yeah, we should do a taxi cab confessions type spin-off where we ask people to confess a deep dark secret. And we posted the next day. And so we tried that. And it went viral on Instagram instantly. It was mostly incest stories. People admitting to incest. I know it's a common southern stereotype, but there's some truth to it. There was some murder confessions. That was pretty crazy. We never really posted any of those. How did you get people to confess? Pretty easy. And New Orleans has a homicide solve rate of like 22%. So, I mean, most of the time, they'll just tell you. I remember I was walking down Bourbon. I asked this kid, I was like, what's your deepest dark secret? And he told me, he's like, I just smoked a dude in the Magnolia to project housing the Third Ward. Project development. And they said, I just smoked a dude in the Magnolia playground for touching my sister, I'm listing a sister. And I was like, what?

And he was like, yeah, look it up. And I was like, all right, hold on. And he was like, man found dead in central city playground. Like appeared to be homeless, shot execution style. So I told the kid, I was like, why'd you tell me that? He's like, man, put that shit out there. Like I'm trying to go viral. Like tag me too. Oh, I don't think you understand that even if you're a juvenile, he was probably 15. You can go, you can get juvenile life in Louisiana for a homicide. Even if it's justified. So I just deleted the footage in front of him. I was like, I'm going to delete this footage. See that trash button? I'm hitting it right now. Don't tell anyone that again. And he was like, all right, I appreciate it. And he walked off. But it's little moments like that. I always hate anything for the gram, I guess.

Yeah, after a while though, it became sort of a repetitive. Because there's only so many things that people can confess to that go viral. And just. Oh, so you were trying to see like what? Well, I mean, there's an incest one. Some people just say like, I eat ass. That was like every everyone said that. Or like I cheated on someone. I've seen a surprising number of people on your channel say, mention eating ass. Yeah. Yeah. The way how that, how seriously you said that will live in my head for the rest of my life. That's good. Yeah, I want you, I want to live in your head saying that a lot of people mention eating ass. Yeah, a lot of people do mention that.

Also, that's kind of where I developed this magnetism for freestyle rapping. Everywhere I go, people rap. Not sure why. I mean, as a former rapper myself in middle school and for the first year of high school, I think that maybe like it takes one to no one. But everywhere I go, people start rapping. If you and me went outside of this podcast studio and walked around for five minutes, I can find somebody. It's rapping. I can tell who raps or who can rap or who has eight bars in their head, they're ready to go. I think you're also, there's something about you that gives them creates the safe space to perform their art. Yeah.

The quarter confession series was the first time you saw the suit. That's when the suit came out. Yeah, it was kind of like a Ron Burgundy, Eric Andre, inspired type of thing. Where'd you get that suit? Goodwill. Goodwill. Yeah, always. Wow. I was playing checkers, you were playing chess. Good chess. Goodwill has a surprising amount of identical gray suits for sale. Yeah, I've actually gotten suits at a thrift store before. Yeah, a lot of people donate suits. And I was going for oversized suits, which are the cheapest ones there. Yeah. It was like 12 bucks, $12 to $25 every time for the outfit. If I wanted to look super sophisticated, like I'm from another era, I would go to thrift store. Yeah, because they're usually like this, there's like the patterns they have. It's just like a more sophisticated suit, which is what you kind of picked out. It made you look ridiculous, but in the best kind of way.

The tough part about quarter confessions for me is that everybody that was featured, for the most part, would more or less regret being a part of the show. Yeah. And that, over time, just gave me a bad feeling where I was like, you know what? I kind of feel like I am doing an ambush interview, especially because I'm presenting a so agreeable, yet the intention is to make something funny. Yeah. And I get that that's what people do in the satire sphere. I'm sure LEG and Bruno and Borat did the same thing. And I don't think it's unethical because that's all for the purposes of comedy. It is what it is. But for me, I wanted to do something different. Yeah. Because there's an intimacy to confessing a thing. Right. And then you just don't really realize the implications of that. And the atmosphere at Bourbon Street is like, anything goes. Like it's a free-spirited place. But if you transport that energy digitally to a different place like Colorado, they might look at it and be like, different place and time, like five years later. Right. That same person as a family and stuff like this. And all of a sudden they're talking about eating ass.

Right, exactly. You know, the kids have to think about that. Or imagine if there's a video of your grandma or grandpa out there when he was a kid talking about eating ass. That's a horrible experience. To discover that about your respected elder later in life, it's tough. I don't even know where to go with that. But literally the opening question was, tell me your deepest, darkest secret. Yeah. You just come up to somebody like that. Yeah. How often do you get like a no? What's the yes to no ratio? Well, the weird thing is like, we don't really extract answers from people. What makes a good interview is when they're ready to talk. The more you have to talk and try to get an answer out of them, it's just not a good vibe. So we kind of look for people who appear to be already ready to talk open body language. Like they seem confident and verbose. And we approach them first. There's a look. We wouldn't approach a shy person and be like, come on, tell me. No.

What about a person with pain in their eyes? Oh, yeah. We're interviewing them. Yeah. So they're ready to talk. They're just not like. Yeah. There's different ways to be ready. Right.

I see homeless people a lot. And they always look fascinating. And the ones I've talked to are always fascinating. Yeah. We just did a video at the Vegas in the Vegas tunnels. Like trying to obviously got taken down by Fox, but whatever. We I was going to make a joke that I didn't see it. We tried to help a lot of them by getting them IDs. And when I made the documentary, I had this idea that if I, it's a big roadblock for them is getting identification. Without IDs, you can't check into a homeless shelter. You can't do day labor. You can't qualify for housing. Nothing. So when we interviewed them, they'd basically tell us, if I had my ID, I wouldn't be here. And so we said, OK, we're going to really help this time. We're not just going to talk to them about their struggles. We're going to actively go out and get them IDs at the DMV. So we did that. And nothing really changed in their life. And we sat down with a recovery specialist who works directly with them day in and day out. And he explained to me that he's been trying to do the same thing I tried to do in a one week period for the past 10 years. And that they have deeper underlying traumas and pain that need to be dealt with far before they even take the steps to enter society as a housed person. That's a heavy truth right there. Breaking that shame cycle has to come first. Because you got to think, right?

Like, I'm from a generation that romanticizes vagrancy and homelessness to a certain extent, if it's called van life. Or if it is done in a way that's sort of like Rolling Stone, Willie Nelson hit the road. People who are above 50, they feel really embarrassed to be in the spiral of homelessness. They feel like failures. A lot of them have kids who they weren't there for. That's not the kind of pain that can be dealt with by giving someone a tiny home. It's a good step forward. But for someone to really make a change, they have to want to change. And so it's how do you help someone and guide themselves in the right direction? And if you're too paternalistic and you use shame as a method to get them to clean up, they're going to end up right where they started. That's a tough truth to accept. There's a lot of people want to quick fix to things. And I don't blame people who go out and give baloney sandwiches out to the homeless. And in each case, it's probably its own little puzzle. Each person is so complex. Now imagine drug abuse, what that does to the brain. Yeah. Trauma, childhood trauma, there's so much to unpack. And then just the belief that they're the undesirables, that they don't deserve to be a part of society because they've failed a fundamental obligation like taking care of their kids.

If we could take a small tangent to, you mentioned this Vegas video, which is fascinating. It was taken down recently by YouTube. Or YouTube took it down based on, yeah, it was illegal. Fox 5, I guess. So the documentary was an hour and 45 minutes. We used 10 seconds of a news clip that was publicly broadcast by Fox 5 Vegas. And according to the Copyright Act of 1976, you're allowed to use any publicly broadcast news clip in a transformative capacity in any documentary film, or research paper, or broadcast, or anything. They specifically, this corporation called Gray Media that controls the TV stations in almost every small town. They had lawyers hit up YouTube. And YouTube complied with an illegal copyright strike to get our video immediately removed. And I'm a YouTube partner. I'm in the YouTube Partner Program. So to think that I wasn't forewarned is, it's a bit strange, but it also smells like corruption to me to a certain extent. Yeah, you shouldn't have that amount of power. At the very least, they should have the power to just silence that five second clip maybe. Yeah, but I'm taking them to court because I have the means to be able to do so. I'm a larger creator. I have an audience. I have the financial backing to do it. I can't imagine how many people out there are smaller creators with not as much consumer of a fan base they can mobilize against someone like Fox 5 or the money to go to court. So I want to take them all the way there to set precedent for future cases so that these mainstream media conglomerates can't copyright strike documentary filmmakers at will. It doesn't make sense. Oh, thank you for doing that. That's really, really, really important. And that's really powerful. And it might hopefully empower YouTube to also put pressure on people to not. YouTube is in a difficult position because there's so much content out there. There's so many claims. It's hard to investigate, but YouTube should be in a place where they push back against this kind of stuff as a first line of defense, especially to protect small creators. So what you're doing is really, really important. Appreciate it, man. It sucks that it was taken down. Do you have any hope?
如果我们可以稍微偏离一下话题,你提到了这个有趣的拉斯维加斯视频。最近YouTube把它删掉了。或者说是YouTube基于某种理由把它删掉了,是的,是非法的。我猜应该是Fox 5。这部纪录片有一个小时45分钟长。我们使用了5秒钟的Fox 5 Vegas公开播出的新闻片段。根据1976年的版权法,你可以在任何纪录片、研究论文、广播节目或其他作品中以创造性方式使用任何公开播出的新闻片段。特别是这个名为Gray Media的公司,控制着几乎每个小镇的电视台。他们的律师联系了YouTube。YouTube履行了非法版权打击,立即将我们的视频移除。我是YouTube合作伙伴,参与了YouTube合作伙伴计划。所以觉得我事先没有被警告有点奇怪,但对我来说,也有点像腐败的味道。是的,他们不应该拥有那么大的权力。至少他们应该有能力只禁止那五秒钟的片段。是的,但我打算告他们,因为我有能力这样做。我是一个更大的创作者,拥有一大批观众和财力支持。我无法想象还有多少小创作者没有那么多粉丝可以来团结起来对抗像Fox 5这样的人,也没有钱去法庭。所以我想把他们告到底,为未来的案例设立先例,以便这些主流媒体公司不能随意对待纪录片制作者的版权。这是毫无道理的。哦,谢谢你做这件事。这真的很重要,而且很有力量。希望这样做也会让YouTube对别人施加压力。YouTube处于一个困难的位置,因为那里有那么多内容,有那么多索赔。很难进行调查,但YouTube应该在第一线反击这种情况,特别是为了保护小创作者。所以你所做的事情真的很重要。感谢你,那个视频被移除真的很糟糕。你还有希望吗?

Well, I talked to my YouTube partner today and he said that the Fox 5 lawyers have two weeks to comply with my counter appeal. But I spent 20 grand on human voiceovers in five different languages. So I invested probably in total, like 70K into this video. So even if it gets reinstated, the steam's kind of been taken out of its trajectory. But also it's just like a really important video is good for the world. Yeah, like why the hell would Fox 5 have an vested interest in having the video taken down? I just hated what people do that to videos or to creators that are doing good in the world. Yeah, it's not an expose on the mayor of Las Vegas. It's an attempt to show the civilian public how to get involved in a local nonprofit and potentially intervene in the lives of the tunnel people. Well, Fox 5, the other channel 5, as you said. Yeah.
今天我和我的YouTube合作伙伴谈了一下,他说Fox 5的律师还有两周时间来响应我的反诉。但是我已经花了两万美元在五种不同语言的人声配音上。所以我总共可能投资了70000美元在这个视频上。即使它被恢复,它的发展势头也已经减弱。但是这个视频对世界来说很重要。是的,为什么Fox 5会对视频下架有利益吗?我讨厌人们这样对待那些对世界有益的视频或者创作者。是的,这不是关于拉斯维加斯市长的揭露,而是试图向公众展示如何参与本地非营利组织并有可能干预隧道人的生活。嗯,像你说的,是Fox 5,另一个5频道。是的。

Well, thank you for pushing back and highlighting it. Hopefully it gets brought back up. But yeah, defending other creators so that other creators can take risks and don't get taken down for stupid reasons. Yeah. So quarter confessions was written? No, it was all real life reality TV documentary. But it caught the attention of a larger company called Doing Things Media. Yes. And they contacted me pretty much like a week after I graduated from college in the May of 2019. And they said, hey, like, how would you like to produce a show? I was like, what do you mean? They were like, we'll get you in an RV. We'll pay you 45k a year. You get to pay for gas, for food, for two hotels a week. Go out there, make content. And we'll be in the background just powering it all. And that was the birth of all gas, no breaks. Yes. I mean, all gas, no breaks was named after a book that I wrote called All Gas, No Breaks, A Hitchhiker's Diary, which chronicled the 70-day journey that we were just talking about. It's a tough book to find, by the way. Oh yeah, there's only a few copies left. I'm thinking about doing a reprint at some point down the line, but I sold off the last 100 copies like a month and a half ago. Yeah. Until then, you guys should go read On the Road by Jack Cairo. Yeah. You should read it. If you can't get my book, Get On the Road by Jack Cairo. That's great. It's the best.
嗯,谢谢你的反馈和突出它。希望能够再次提起来。但是是的,要捍卫其他创作者,让他们能够冒险,不会因为愚蠢的原因而被封杀。是的。所以"Quarter Confessions"是编写的吗?不,那全都是真实生活的真人秀纪录片。但是引起了一个更大的公司Doing Things Media的注意。是的。他们几乎在我2019年5月大学毕业的一周后联系了我。他们说,嘿,你想制作一档节目吗?我说,你是什么意思?他们说,我们会给你一辆房车。我们每年付给你45,000美元。你只需支付汽油、食物和每周两次的酒店费用。去创作内容。我们在背后支持你。这就是"全速前进,毫无束缚"的诞生。是的。我是以我写的一本书《全速前进,毫无束缚,一个搭便车者的日记》命名的,这本书记录了我们刚刚谈到的70天旅程。顺便说一句,这是一本很难找到的书。是的,只剩下几本了。我考虑过在以后的某个时候重新印刷,但是一个半月前我卖掉了最后100本。是的。在那之前,你们应该去读读杰克·凯鲁的《在路上》。是的。你们应该读一读。如果买不到我的书,那就买杰克·凯鲁的《在路上》。那本书很棒。

Once your birth tells. April 23rd. OK. I'm a Taurus. Come and see it. Typical Taurus. Yeah. I'm a typical Taurus man. I'm a Scorpio moon. Just write that down. What's the time when you were born? 1130. 1130 at night? Or of course. Yeah. Typical. This guy knew it. That's the real science. Yeah. Anyways, so the idea of All Gas, No Breaks as a show was to combine the, I guess, Road Dog ethos of the All Gas, No Breaks book with the presentation and editing style of quarter confessions.
一旦你出生就能告诉。4月23日。好的。我是金牛座。来看看吧。典型的金牛座。是的。我是典型的金牛座男人。我的月亮在天蝎座。记下来。你出生的时候是什么时间?11点30分。晚上11点30分?当然了。是的。典型的。这家伙知道。这就是真正的科学。无论如何,All Gas, No Breaks这个节目的理念是将All Gas, No Breaks这本书的道路哲学与quarter confessions的演示和编辑风格结合起来。

So it was to take quarter confessions on the road that was pretty much like a simulated hitchhiking experience. But with the editing and like punchy effects of quarter confessions, which is like I wear a suit. We did a fast zoom ins. Little effects, stuff like that. It was a man. Those were the best years. It was just so fun. I mean, imagine you're fresh out of college.

You were just a doorman interviewing people about making out with their cousin and stuff. And then boom, this company that you've never even heard of is willing to buy you an RV and give you 45k a year, which to me at the time was more money than I could possibly imagine. So I called my dad. I was like, dad, I need you to find me an RV. Because he's the only guy I know who knows about cars. And even he doesn't know much about cars.

So he's like, all right, I'm on it. So the RV was 20,000. And the first event that we were called to cover was the Burning Man Festival. And that was tough because Burning Man is not too keen on filming. It's supposed to be a non-commercialized escape from reality. I mean, they have a gift economy set up. It's based upon mutual participation and non-exploitation.
所以他说,好的,我会处理。这辆房车要价2万美元。我们接到的第一个报道任务是前往“燃烧人节”(Burning Man Festival)。这有点困难,因为“燃烧人节”并不太欢迎摄影。它被看作是一个非商业化的脱离现实的逃避之地。他们建立了一个赠予经济系统,基于互相参与和非剥削。

And so the idea of making a Burning Man video was tough at first because burners oftentimes, and this is not all of them, but are pretty well off in general. A lot of them have tech jobs, are pretty high up in Silicon Valley. And Burning Man is where they go to take off, to take the edge off and basically become their burner persona. On the plaid, they become reborn.

And they take ketamine, and they wear colitis gulp glasses and steampunk hats. And they snort MDMA, and they run around the sand. Listen, do you snort MDMA? That's one I need to go to the AMA. I thought it's a pill. I didn't know. It's better to take it in a pill or water, but you can snort MDMA. I definitely need to take MDMA. I'm already full of love, but like that, I probably go to another level.

Yeah, don't snort it because it only lasts for you like 90 minutes. Let me write that down. So anyways, we didn't know what to do because we'd try to film. Don't snort. The initial idea for All Gas No Breaks was to, instead of asking people, what's your deepest arc a secret? It was, what's the craziest trip you've been on? So the idea was to not satirize drunk people, but satirize people who are fried on acid. And so we went to Boulder real quick, did a test interview with some lady who talked about seeing ancestral aliens during a peyote retreat.

And so it's pretty easy to extract trip reports from hippies and gutter punks and stuff like that, or oogles. So we go to Burning Man. We start asking people what's your craziest trip story? And they didn't have the same type of free-flowing, storytelling style that like a on the street, cross-punk in New Orleans, might have where they're like, I don't give a fuck, I'll tell you whatever.

These people were very bottled up about what they were willing to disclose. So we went on Burning Man radio and we did a broadcast. And we said, hey, we're psychedelic journalists. It was me and my friend, CL, at the time. I said, we're psychedelic journalists. We're parked on Tan and I, which is a cross-street in Black Rock City. And we said, we have a 1998 Catalina Coachman sport.

It's an RV. We've set up a podcast studio. We're doing a show about psychedelic voyages. Yeah. So lo and behold, two hours later, we had 10 people lined up at the RV. Nice. Willing to talk. So that vetted people in advance for us. And so we did a couple interviews and that was that. Well, what were some of the stories from the trip reports? There was this lady named Rosma who said that she was known in several circles in Berkeley for being multi-orgasmic and could create multiple repeated climaxes using only her mind by squinting her eyes and squeezing her eyes together so much that the pleasure spider just went crazy. I feel like I talked to several people like that at Berkeley. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Not that. Well, yeah, that lady, I think she manifests herself in many forms. Right. But still, it was on the cruder end.

There was one guy named Kimbo Slice, which is his burner name. He talked about taking a shit after taking a quarter of mushrooms and how he was seeing his childhood and visualizing his past life as the turds were flowing into the toilet and just talks about the psychedelic union between pooing and taking shrimps. So he was very visual with his words. Yeah. So there was stuff like that. I interviewed Alex Gray, which was super cool about his first trip in San Francisco when he was in 1971 shortly after the summer of love. I got to do some pretty cool interviews, but still it was a semi-ambush style. I wouldn't say that we were doing journalism yet. It was still comedic video work. Yeah. Was there a narrative that tied it together? It's like really just a trip, comedic almost with the interview. And then I go, burning man. And then it's on to the next one. So I guess that could give a loose structure, but it's just like a punchy and slapstick thing.
有一个叫Kimbo Slice的家伙,这是他的化名。他谈到吃了四分之一的蘑菇后如厕,描述了自己在看着成长的过程和想象自己过去生命的经历,就像屎流进马桶一样,他还谈到了排泄和吃虾之间的迷幻联系。他用言辞非常生动。是的,就是这样。我采访了Alex Gray,在1971年他第一次在旧金山的旅行时,当时正值夏季之爱的后面。我做了一些很酷的采访,但仍然是一种半突袭风格。我不能说我们已经从事新闻工作了。这仍然是喜剧视频工作。是的。有一个连贯性的故事吗?就像是一个真正的旅程,带有幽默感的采访。然后我去参加燃烧人节。然后继续进行下一个采访。所以我想这可能是一个宽松的结构,但它仅仅是一个轻快和滑稽的东西。

Um, everything was going good until we interviewed this guy named DJ Softbaby. But he was wearing a golden leotard with, once again, kaleidoscope glasses, shirtless dancing, like, you know, dancing. And he was eating chowder out of a plastic bowl. And he was like, this chowder is so fucking good. He's like, this is the best chowder I've ever had in my life. And he starts putting the chowder on his face. And he's like, I want the chowder all over me. Yeah. And so we, we just go, Hey man, can you just do a dance for us real quick? Just for some B roll. He does a dance. We posted on Instagram the next morning doing things media CEO calls me, read, he says all of our pages are down. And he's like, that guy you filmed dancing last night on drugs, putting chowder on his face. That guy is at the top of MIT top of MIT. I don't understand. He went to, I'm like saying, you know, my brother is a rocket science. He's like head of NASA or whatever. I mean, the guy knows people in Boston. OK, you know, not in the Whitey Bulger sense, but in the reverse sense. I've trouble believing that DJ soft, baby. Oh, DJ soft, maybe it was major. It could have been Harvard. It could have been, but it wasn't, it wasn't UMass. I don't think there's anybody that's a quote at the head of MIT who's putting, um, what was it all over his face? Uh, chowder, chowder. Well, then you haven't been to Burning Man yet. OK. I'm not working yet. So I have to consult my colleagues at MIT, if they know, DJ soft, baby. So whoever you probably was Harvard, let's put it on them. OK, the top of Harvard. So he made some calls, you know, to the tops, to the heads of big tech. Got all the doing things media pages taken down at the time. That was like a vast network of pages. And we ended up having to take the, obviously, the video came down. And he held the entire network of Instagram pages hostage. And so that was a, he made us agree to never post that video again. And then somehow got all of our pages reinstated. So that was my first brush with like, uh, you know, powerful people on drugs. And that was probably my last brush with powerful people on drugs. So what, what did you transition into from there? I think after Burning Man, we went to the South went to Talladega race weekend, went to a Donald Trump, junior book signing, went to a juggalo.
啊,一切都很顺利,直到我们采访了一个名叫DJ Softbaby的家伙。但是他穿着一件金色紧身裤,再次戴着万花筒眼镜,赤裸上身跳舞,就像跳舞一样。他拿着一个塑料碗吃着浓汤。他说,这个浓汤太好吃了。他说,这是我这辈子吃过的最好吃的浓汤。然后他开始把浓汤抹在自己脸上。他说,我想要浓汤遍布全身。是的。所以我们就说,喂,伙计,你可以为我们随便跳个舞吗?就当作一些B卷。他跳了一支舞。第二天早上我们在Instagram上发布了他的视频,Doing Things Media的CEO打电话给我,他说我们所有的页面都被删掉了。他说,你拍到的那个昨晚在吸毒、把浓汤抹在脸上跳舞的那个家伙,他在麻省理工学院的最高层。我搞不懂。我说,你知道我的兄弟是个火箭科学家,他是NASA的负责人之类的。我是说,这个家伙在波士顿认识人。好吧,不是白手党的那种意思,而是相反的意思。我很难相信那个DJ软宝贝。哦,DJ软宝贝说大可能是主要的。可能是哈佛,但不是,不是马萨诸塞大学。我认为在麻省理工学院的顶尖人物不会把,嗯,他把什么涂到脸上了?呃,浓汤,浓汤。那么你还没有去过燃烧人节。好吧,我还没有去过。所以我得去请教我的同事在麻省理工学院,如果他们知道DJ软宝贝。那么你们说的可能是哈佛,就归咎于他们吧。哦,是哈佛的顶尖人物。所以他打了一些电话,你知道,给一些大科技公司的首脑。让所有Doing Things Media的页面被删除。当时那是一个广泛的页面网络。我们最后不得不删除那个视频。他拿着整个Instagram页面网络当人质。因此,他让我们同意永远不再发布那个视频。然后不知何故又让我们所有的页面恢复。所以那是我第一次接触到像是在吸毒的权势人物。那很可能也是我最后一次接触到那些权势人物吸毒的情况。那之后你转变为什么呢?我想燃烧人节过后,我们去了南方,去了塔拉迪加赛车周末,去了一个唐纳德·特朗普的书签名会,参加了一个朱格洛聚会。

Adjacent fetish mansion in central Florida called the sausage castle. Ah, juggalo adjacent. Uh, sauce. Okay. Can you, can you can you run that by me again? A juggalo adjacent fetish mansion in central Florida. Fetish mansion in central Florida juggalo adjacent. I mean, every single one of those words that you like needs a book or something. Right. So juggalo, by the way, where are the juggalos? Is this ICP? ICP fans. OK, but I say adjacent because it's not a juggalo mansion, but there's a lot of juggalos who kick it at the mansion and it's juggalo friendly. Oh. Okay. Juggalo friendly. Yeah. Cause they get made fun of in a lot of places. Oh, so it's not. OK, I got it. And juggalos say outrageous shit, you know, and they embarrass themselves and they fight a lot. So they're kind of, they're on the FBI's gang list, which if you ask me, ICP or the juggalos, the juggalos, if it was the, the head of the drug, the juggalos, it would be violent J and shaggy two dope, but there's associated acts like twisted. And there's a whole rabbit hole. Honestly, tech nine is sort of a part of that. Tech nine. I don't know who that is. Should I know? He's a he's actually one of the top selling touring rappers despite having sort of not that many streams. Tech nine is like, it's got a huge cult following in Missouri. This is like the juggalos started in Warren, Michigan, which should also say ICP in St. Clomposy. So this is a thing. This is a movement. Oh, yeah. If you if you went to Seattle right now and punched a cop and they booked you in county jail, you may end up running with the juggalos. Running with the juggalos. They're a presence in Pacific Northwest prison system from what I've heard.
佛罗里达中部的一座毗邻的恋物洋楼被称为香肠城堡。啊,与快乐狂绅士相邻。酱料。好的。你能再给我重复一遍吗?佛罗里达中部的快乐狂绅士相邻的恋物洋楼。在佛罗里达中部的恋物洋楼与快乐狂绅士相邻。我的意思是,你提到的每个词都需要一个详实的解释。对了,快乐狂绅士是指什么?是ICP乐队的粉丝。好吧,我用相邻来描述,因为这不是一座快乐狂绅士的洋楼,但有许多快乐狂绅士在那里聚会,这里对快乐狂绅士友好。哦。好的。对快乐狂绅士友好。是的,因为他们在很多地方遭受嘲笑。哦,所以这不是。好,我懂了。快乐狂绅士会说一些荒唐的话,他们会丢脸并且经常打架。所以他们在FBI的黑名单上,可以说,ICP或者快乐狂绅士,如果要找一个头目,就是暴力J和shaggy two dope,但还有像twisted这样的附属团体。这是一个深不见底的洞。老实说,Tech Nine也算是其中的一部分。Tech Nine。我不知道他是谁。我应该知道吗?他实际上是巡回演出的销量最高的说唱歌手之一,尽管他的流媒体播放量并不是很高。Tech Nine在密苏里有很庞大的粉丝群体。这就是快乐狂绅士的起源地,起初始于密歇根州的沃伦,ICP在圣克洛普西也是如此。这是一个运动。哦,是的。如果现在你去西雅图打警察并且被关进监狱,你可能最终会和快乐狂绅士结伙。和快乐狂绅士结伙。据我所知,他们在太平洋西北部的监狱体系中很有影响力。

Can you tell a juggalo from like a distance? Well, they say whoop whoop. So if you see a juggalo, they'll say that also like I'll try to. I'll try to look after that. They're kind of it's called the dark carnivals, the mythology they abide by. What do they define themselves? What's the idea of a family? A family. No, I understand. But what's the ideology? What's the philosophical foundation of their anti-racist? They like to drink fago and also just like cheap liquor and stuff like that. They're they they're into drugs. Yeah. You know, a lot of circles, if you pull out a crack pipe, people will be like, I don't want to drink with you anymore. If you're at a juggalo party and someone smoking twiz or something, it's relatively accepted.

I was twiz. Meth. Meth, right. Right. Lots of tattoos. Yeah. The hatchet man is the most common one. So it's a psychopathic records logo. It's a cartoon of a clown wheeling a hatchet. It's actually a pretty sick logo. I think they remember enjoying some of the ICP music. It's good. That's pretty good. It's funny. It's edgy. Well, they get satirized a lot, but I got love for the clowns and also so when all gas no brakes transitioned away from, you know, rich elite drug parties and into like the south, that's when the fun really started to happen. Living in your RV in Alabama and Florida and stuff is the best. Why? What is it about? People are just so friendly down there and it's warm year round and people are non judgmental. It's just great.
我曾经迷恋过Twiz. Meth. 对,没错。对,身上有很多纹身。是的,那个斧头人是最常见的。所以这是一个精神病记录的标志。是一个小丑推着一把斧头的卡通形象。实际上是一个相当不错的标志。我记得他们曾经喜欢ICP的一些音乐。很不错。挺有意思的。很潮。嗯,他们经常被讽刺,但我对小丑们还是很喜欢的,当《全力以赴,没有急刹车》从富有的精英派对过渡到南部时,真正有趣的事情才开始发生。住在RV里的阿拉巴马和佛罗里达等地是最好的。为什么呢?那里的人们非常友好,全年都很温暖,人们不带有偏见。这简直太棒了。

The South gets hated on a lot, especially in the coastal coastal states, Mississippi and Alabama are kind of like the butts of a lot of jokes and stuff, but there's a great state. No, I love it. You mix it called. Albuquerque, all those. Oh, yeah. The ABQ is. It's great. ABQ was that Albuquerque? It's what Jesse Pinkman called it as the ABQ. Oh, shit. The depth of reference as you bring to the table is intense. It's OK. I met a lady in Albuquerque when I was traveling across the United States and she said, take me with you. Said, I'm sorry, man, I can't. Yeah. But I think about that lady. Think you made the right call. I don't know. Yeah.

On the road. Yeah. By Jack Kerouac, best book I've ever read in my life. There's a there's a moment when he meets a nice girl on a bus and they have a love affair. That's good on a bus or they. No, no, they went to California. Well, yeah, and there was a love affair on the bus, but it wasn't sexual. It was just romantic. It was it was in the air. It was an air, which there is something in the air on the bus. Like a great home mega bus type of situation. There's certainly something in the air. But the romance there is, man. We travel because it's exchanges getting together and you're like feeling each other out. But you're in it. Take you each have a story because you wouldn't be taking a bus unless you had a story.

So you're, especially if you're traveling across countries or something, you ever taken the dollar bus from Philly to New York to Chinatown bus? Yeah, I have. That's a great bus. The people on that it's not a fucking dollar though. It was a there's some that are five bucks. No, no, no, no. If you book away ahead of time, it's like $20. I was like, this is a fucking line calling him $1. I got on the I don't know why I'm swearing. The anger came out. I put this. Swearings. OK. Sometimes when I got last time I was on the Chinatown bus, there was like a rooster walking down the aisle. Actually, yeah. Watch. Chilling. It was awesome. Well, there's a nice part of your film with the rooster. Hmm. I forgot about that. Yeah. That felt almost fake.

Yeah. Did you plant the rooster? No, the rooster. There's a place in Ebor City in Tampa where roosters walk around all the time. And we had a rooster park there right by the main drag for. But did I say we had a rooster park? We had the RV park, just Ebor City for a long time and rooster laid eggs in the undercarriage. Nice. Back to the Elgasto brakes thing though. Yeah. So it was lots. It was really fun making it. And then we started Elgasto brakes in September of 2019. Six months later, the country shuts down and everything just hits the fan. I was actually here in Austin when it shut down. I was on 6th Street. I remember the, I don't just hang out on 6th Street all the time, but I was just here. Yeah. Come on. Just be honest. I do like 6th Street. Yeah, I like East Austin better, but I like 6th Street too. So anyways, the NBA shuts down. Everything's shutting down. And I, so I went down to the 36 and I asked this doorman. I was like, you guys ever going to shut down? He was like, fuck no, bro. The 36 never closes. And I was like, all right. We'll see about that next day plywood. And then I was like, all right, I thought my career was over when COVID hit. I was like, what are we going to do? Nothing's happening anymore. There's no more parties or Talladega races or Burning Man's to go to. So I went back to Seattle and the RV and I just spent four months just depressed, living in the RV, trying to figure out what would happen. But all gas no breaks went on still.
是的。你种了公鸡吗?不,就是公鸡。在坦帕的埃博市有一个地方,那里总是有公鸡在四处走动。我们在那里开了一个公鸡公园,就在主要道路旁边。但我说过我们有一个公鸡公园吗?我们只是在埃博市有一个房车公园,公鸡在底盘下生蛋。很好。但是回到 Elgasto 刹车的事情。是的。制作它真的很有趣。然后我们在2019年9月创立了 Elgasto 刹车。六个月后,整个国家关闭,一切都乱了。当它关闭时,我实际上在奥斯汀。我当时在第六街。我不会一直呆在第六街,但我就在这里。是的。诚实点。我确实喜欢第六街。是的,我更喜欢东奥斯汀,但我也喜欢第六街。总之,NBA停摆了。一切都在关闭。所以我走到36号大街,问门卫他们会不会关闭。他说,该死的,伙计,36号永远不会关门。我说,好吧,我们明天看看,第二天就铺上了木板。然后我想,当 COVID 传播时,我的职业生涯似乎就结束了。我想,我们该怎么办?再也没有派对或塔拉迪加赛车或去的燃烧人节了。所以我回到西雅图,住在房车里,度过了四个月的沮丧时光,试图弄清楚接下来会发生什么。但 All Gas No Brakes 还在继续。

Well, this was the craziest thing about that period of time is that when, when COVID hit, I'm sure you remember everything turned political overnight. In Seattle, if you went to a house party, you can get canceled. You know, because people were like, Oh, you're a super spreader. So if you wanted to socialize, even with the group of four or more, you had to do so with your phone, stamina turned off. And a lot of people were doing a hyper social policing at that time. Beyond that, in the South and in more conservative places, they were doing the opposite. They were trying to prove that they could hang out 500 deep with no mask to make a statement against the establishment. So you had this polarization that led to more division. And that's when the anti-vax protests started. And I went to Sacramento and the passion was unreal. This is about, this is about two months after the COVID lockdowns began. And that was my first political video. Was it the Sacramento, the California State Capitol and Sacramento documenting the, they called it the Freedom Rally, but that's typically like anti-vax stuff.

And it was real intensity. And that video was my most successful to date at that time. And so I was like, okay, am I a political reporter now? Am I covering politics? Like what's going on? What were the interviews that made up that video? What kind of what style of questions were you asking? What? I don't know if you remember, but I was actually scared when the pandemic started. I thought that this is something that might kill us all based upon what I was consuming. And so I'd ask people, what do you think about this lockdown? And I've had people say, you know, I'm immune compromised. If I get exposed to COVID, I have a 95% fatality rate. But guess what? I'd rather be free and dead than alive, living in fear. And I was like, wow.

So it was just stuff along those lines. You had some San Diego surfers there complaining about the beaches being shut down and such awesome waves were coming. Yeah. It's interesting how that really brought out the worst in people. Oh, yeah. I'm not sure why that is fear, maybe paranoia. I don't know. It really divided people like we're alone lies, as you mentioned, like triple mask yourself or fight for your country. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Why is it two options? That is literally what it was. Yeah. It's wild. And both groups think they're fighting for the survival of something. Yeah. And so that's where you really run into problems when you have two polarize groups who both think that their cause is for the common good mutual understanding is impossible at that juncture. And so after three months of almost every everybody being locked down, George Floyd happens.

And I remember I saw the third precinct burning on my phone in Minneapolis. And everyone says, Andrew, you have to go cover this. And I'm somebody like I said, you know, police violence has been close to my heart since I was a kid. And my first thought is I can't do that. I'm a comedic reporter. I can't go to Minneapolis and cover this. It'll be the end of my career. And I had a friend named Lacey who I went to college with. And she told me she was like, bro, this is your chance for you to do something serious. You can actually create a meaningful piece of reporting like you always wanted to before quarter confessions. And you can turn all gas no breaks into a new source. So I called Reed, who is the CEO of the company that owned all gas no breaks.

And I was like, look, man, I want to go to Minneapolis. I was in Orlando at the time. I was actually at the sausage castle. And he said, he said the sausage castle. Yeah, the juggalo mansion. Oh, right. Yeah. It's called the sausage castle. So I'm watching Minneapolis unfold. Uh, on Lake Street where it was burning. And I got to the Orlando airport and I booked a flight without, I booked it on my own card. I didn't consult my boss or anything. And I was sitting in my seat on the flight. And he, he straight up told me he's like, if you fuck this up and this destroys the brand, we're getting a different host.

This, if you mess this up and you turn our, our, our, our show away from a party show about drinking and drugs and all that stuff and you make this a social justice show that you're done. But I was like, I just turned my phone off. I got to the Minneapolis airport on the second night of the riots. And when I got to the airport, there was national guardsmen in the airport and there was a, it was like a call of duty mission and the one in the airport.

And on the speaker, they say, if you're arriving here right now, you are not permitted to go anywhere outside of the airport. National guardsmen will escort you to your Uber or to your car. They're going to take a picture of your ID. They're going to figure out where you're going. You are not permitted to go outside tonight. And so Lacey picks me up. There's two people in the back, two of her home girls wearing like sheisty masks. I'm like, what are we doing? What, where are we going? And she goes, we're going to go film the riot.

We're going to Lake Street. And so we drive down there. Kmart is burning. Target is burning. Everything is on fire. She has the Sony a7. She gives me a microphone and she's like, go talk to that guy. And that was a guy with a Molotov cocktail in his hand who had just burned Kmart down. And so I go, what should I ask him? She goes, what's on your mind? So I walk up to him and I'm like, what's on your mind? He said something like everything that was happening here was supposed to happen.

This is how we feel. Is it right? No. Is this going to benefit the community? No. But this is how we feel. This is how we feel. That's pretty powerful. Yeah. That's through a lot of the, the documenting that you do. This is how we feel is like, yeah, screaming through that. Yeah. And I noticed that aside from a group called Unicorn Riot, there was no one else actually interviewing the protesters. The local news was on the bridge. 15, not 15, but five blocks away.

You know, filming just the scene itself, just at the fire. But I saw some crazy things off camera too. I saw. So there was kind of two groups there. There was like the, the, the anarchists, more mobilized protesters. And then there was just mostly African American community members who were just pissed, who had nothing to do with the organized resistance. And they were all kind of joining forces to riot. And there was this anarchist kid who ran up to White Castle with like a Molotov cocktail.

And he was about, he's about to throw it at White Castle in this black deer run up to him and grabbed his arm and he's like, nah, we fuck with White Castle. And I was like, what? And so you see, if you go on Lake Street, every business is burned. Yeah. White Castle remains. I also saw these dudes ripped this ATM out of a bank and hit it with sledgehammers. They were a group of friends hitting it with sledgehammers, right? They didn't go sledgehammers.

Boom. All of a sudden, money starts spraying out of the ATM. Like I've never seen some shit like this, like pouring out of it. And then these group of friends who were just united and getting it open, start fighting each other for the money as it's flying out of it. And so there was just, it was like a like Joker from the Batman's army type type vibes. But I got shot in the ass by the National Guard. It was no good. Like a what, Robert Bullitt. Yeah. Yeah. Not not.
突然间,ATM机里开始喷射出钱来。就像我从未见过的情景,钱就像从它里面倾泻而出。然后,这群刚刚团结起来想要打开ATM机的朋友们开始争夺飞出的钱。所以,就像是来自蝙蝠侠敌人小丑的军队的氛围。但我却被国民警卫队在屁股上打了一枪。那种感觉真糟糕。 Robert Bullitt,对,没错。

I feel like honestly it hurt. I'm not sure what I was expecting is an answer to that question. Yeah, but I liked it. It was good. Yeah. And then after that, I posted the video and it was very well received. And that was the pivotal point where I realized that everything was going to change. I mean, there was a still kind of a community government to the way you do conversations with the way you edit. So did you see yourself as a potentially like a John Stewart type of character?

But at first, but you know, I just think human beings are just funny in general. Yeah, the absurdity of it. Cool thing about John Stewart is like, I generally like to say that anybody who works for corporate media, whether it be Comedy Central or anything owned by Time Warner, Fox, MSNBC, they can't say what they want because in order to climb up in those organizations, you have to appease the narrative of the company that you're working for to rise in the ranks.

John Stewart, I feel like has so much clout in the media world that I'm pretty sure he can say whatever he wants. Like I actually don't think that John Stewart is controlled by anybody. I really don't. I think that he can go on the show and talk about whatever. I do think that certain people have broken the brains of the COVID broke the brains of a lot of really great people I admire. Trump broke the brains of a lot of people I admire, like to where Trump, Trump, Drangement syndrome became a thing. Like you can't see the world quite as clearly because of it. And I think John Stewart is quite a genius at like stepping away, even though the world needed him in that time, stepping away during that moment of Trump and coming back now, sort of being able to reflect being those sort of other statesmen. My favorite John Stewart moment that illustrates that perfectly is whenever he went on the Colbert show. And he was just joking around with Stephen Colbert, who I think is a full blown propagandist about the Wuhan lab league theory. He was just goofing around. He was like, it's called the coronavirus lab. And they had it before. And now what do we have? And it was like, you could see in Stephen Colbert that he was like gun to his head type shit where he's like, John, John, stop joking about that. Yeah. And that made me realize like, Oh, everything that John Stewart did, especially for the 911 first responders, he's a true American and not in the sense of like the different political parties want you to believe is an American. Not a do your part in social distance American, not a, you know, wave your Trump flag in the back of your pickup truck American, just a guy who genuinely stands up for what's right.

There is a degree to which you can be in those positions easily captured by groupthink, though, even when you're not controlled by bosses and money and all that kind of stuff. I think John Stewart is mostly resistant, but it's hard. His position is difficult. I think he's done the best job though. If someone in this obviously Democrat connected. Yeah. Corporate media economy, he seems to be the freest talker. Yeah.

So this is when you first became famous. I'm not even sure what fame means. I mean, I just see myself as me. Why did you get the shades? Oh, that was on tour. That was, that's a whole, the shades. That's a dark time, but this. I didn't make like some meme really. I don't even know. I didn't, I didn't make journalism to like become famous. Yeah. I made it to give people a platform to share their stories. It just so happens that people liked it enough to where I became sort of famous. But, you know, if I could go back and not be the on camera guy and just platform the stories, I would. But the reality is people need a face to attach to the stuff they like. And so that's just how it is. But yeah, I would say right around Minneapolis protest, Portland protests, Proud Boys rally time when I was really in there is when I started to be acclaimed, it's more than just like a ambush meme, Lord. Did that have a fact on you, the fame? Not at that point. Not at that point.

So like you were still able to have a lightness to you. Well, the country was basically closed. Yeah. So it wasn't like there was a street to walk down where people were like, there's that guy. So getting famous, famous during COVID made it. So when the country reopened, it was as if like, I, my life really changed because I was like, Oh, all these fans I made during COVID are like seeing me out of the bar. This is cool. Yeah. It first famous, the best thing ever, because you can go anywhere in the country and these spaces that you normally feel a bit insecure in, like a local dive bar, a cool restaurant, a coffee shop where you just be another guy. All of a sudden they're like, Oh my God, I'm a big fan. They give you like free stuff. You get this sense of acceptance that you never would have got before. So, but there's also the dark side. Well, it's all love, man. I mean, I just speak to the first part you're saying is there's so much love that people have in this show. It's amazing. I'm sure you know what it's like. That's beautiful.
所以就像你仍然能保持一种轻松的状态。嗯,这个国家基本上是关闭的。是的。所以并不像有一条街可以走下去,人们会说“那个人”。所以在COVID期间变得出名,真的很不错。所以当国家重新开放时,就好像我,我的生活真的改变了,因为我觉得哦,在 COVID期间我得到的这些粉丝现在在酒吧外看到了我。这很酷。是的。成名,是最棒的事情,因为你可以去这个国家的任何地方,而这些地方你通常会感到有点不安全,比如一个当地的酒吧,一个酷餐厅,一个咖啡店,你只是另一个人而已。突然间他们会说,“哦,天哪,我是你的忠实粉丝。”他们会免费给你东西。你会得到一种你以前永远不会得到的被接纳的感觉。但是,也有黑暗的一面。嗯,这一切都是爱,伙计。我的意思是,我要说的第一部分是人们在这个节目中有很多爱。这太棒了。我相信你知道那种感觉。那真的太美好了。

That only downside of fame, really, is that you can't really be anonymous again. And you have to seek out more strange environments to be anonymous in. Like right now I live in the desert, basically. And I want to live in the middle of nowhere in the Mojave Desert. Not because I'm scared of people, but because I just want to be like curious me again, who people don't know. And I can ask questions to people that I'm interested in without them going. I remember I see I see you here. I see you there. That's that's the main thing. That's what I loved about hitchhiking. Yeah, just to have anonymity. Yes, best. But both are great. Complaining about fame is just the lamest shit. Yeah. We should go to furry conventions that you covered. It weren't wearing, worn outfit. I love furries. I should do that. Yeah, we should go to go. I go all the time. We should go together. What's your favorite outfit? No, I have not. I think you might like it more than you think. I listen. Maybe I'm just afraid to face quite a really am.

Yeah, your first son of the true Lex will come out when you're. Yeah. In a 36 dollar. Everything is possible. Lizard? Is that what they go with? Well, scalies. Are the lizard furries. Yeah. And there's a big division in the community where they think scale is kind of douchebag, you know, the scale. These suits are more expensive. They're about seven grand, whereas a first suit is 3600. So and they're also taller. Yeah. So when the scale is pull up to the furfest, it's like, ah, fuck the reptiles. Fuck the reptiles. I can get behind that. I liked like more, more like a teddy bear type of guy. Yeah. I think bears, I what's that maybe squirrels. I don't know. Oh, squirrels are so cool. Yeah. Squirrels. Yeah. I want to put a GoPro on one and just see what the hell they do.

Um, you were talking about that conversation with the guy at the head of doing things media. How did that end up? Well, I mean, I want to clear up a few things. Read the CEO of doing things. I actually think he's a good guy. I think that he was just trying to run a business. He saw what was working for his brand, which is very college centric, very festival centric. And he was right to think that journalism and especially coverage of sensitive topics, like COVID or, you know, police brutality would definitely not work on merch. You know, you're not going to sell a picture of me interviewing someone at a riot. Like you would me interviewing a furry or a drunk dude in Alabama. It doesn't work the same. So it was a lot, a lot harder to monetize, not just because of a YouTube censorship. But also just because of the sensitive, sensitive nature of the content. So Reed was looking out for himself as a businessman. There was a different partner. I'm not going to say his name. There was more connected in Hollywood. I think he's responsible for the, the collapse of the show. What was the collapse like?

What was so right as the country's reopening, I get a DM from Eric Wairheim of Tim and Eric. And I'm covering something called the UFO mega conference in Lathlin, Nevada, which is a beautiful Rivertown. And, you know, he, he, he, he ends me and says, let's make a show. And I'm like, oh, shit, is this real? You know, I grew up such a big fan of Nathan for you and the Eric Andre show. And those are produced by their company. Absolutely. So I was like, hell yeah, let's do it. Um, three days later, I get a call. It says Jonah Hill wants to hop on board. And I can't believe this, you know, I'm still on the RV and I'm in Lathlin, Nevada. So I'm like, Jonah Hill, super bad. Are you shitting me right now? So I was excited. And, uh, oh, and Moneyball Jonah Hill is a great actor. Oh, he's great. And great all around. Yeah. And so credit deserves. Well, I mean, he's got the credit by now, but still deserves more. So basically just within a week, I assembled this super team of Tim and Eric. And super bad team. Yeah. Pretty much of Tim and Eric. I'm so sorry. I was good and Jonah Hill. And yeah, we just pitched it around every single TV network rejected it. I don't know why. And they mainly did that because I was in this weird situation where I had signed a contract with doing things media that I didn't realize was called a 360 deal. That's what they use in like the rap world.
乡村重新开放,我收到了Tim和Eric的Eric Wairheim的私信。我正在报道内华达州拉思林的UFO大会,那是一个美丽的河滨小镇。他联系我说,让我们制作一个节目。我想,哦,这是真的吗?我从小就是《为你而来》和《Eric安德烈秀》的忠实粉丝,而这些节目都是由他们的公司制作的。所以我当然愿意。三天后,我接到电话,说乔纳·希尔想参与进来。我简直不敢相信,当时我还在拉思林的房车上。所以我说,乔纳·希尔,超级坏。这真的不是在开玩笑吗?我感到兴奋。哦,《金钱战》的乔纳·希尔是位很棒的演员。他真的很棒,而且全方位都很出色。所以,基本上仅仅在一周内,我组建了这支超豪华的团队,有Tim和Eric,超级坏团队,乔纳·希尔。我们将这个节目推荐给每个电视网,但他们都拒绝了。我不知道为什么。主要是因为我签了一份与Doing Things Media的合同,我没有意识到这是一份全方位合同。这是他们在说唱界使用的术语。

Basically means that I can't do anything outside of them without them getting a hundred percent of the money. So if I was to go work at Sabaro or Quiznos while I was working for all gas, no breaks, they would get my 500 bucks a week from the sandwich spot. I was unable to earn any outside income. Um, I didn't read the fine print because I was 21 and like I told you, 45 K a year RV sounds sick. And basically the TV networks were like, why would we buy a show if the digital brand is going to be running at the same time? Cause they didn't want to stop doing all gas, no breaks to make a TV show. They wanted all gas, no breaks to continue as a web show while all gas, no breaks as a future TV show at Showtime or Hulu or somewhere like that was also concurrently running, which is impossible for one man to do. And so every TV network said, okay, we're not doing that. We want an exclusive rights contract with this guy.

Next, oh yeah, this is crazy to think about. It all happened so fast. So Jonah Hill says, A24 films wants to do a movie instead of a show and they're going to let you keep the digital brand running. So this meant that I could keep doing my Instagram stuff with doing things media slash all gas, no breaks while making an A24 movie with Jonah Hill and Tim and Eric. So it was just like, I was excited. It's sound, sounded perfect. So they said, okay, what do you want to make a movie about? And I told them, okay, here's what's going to happen in 2020. In 2020, if Trump wins, there's going to be riots across the country. The major cities are going to burn down. If Trump loses the militias and his loyal supporters are going to try to have a coup in DC. That's what I said. And I said, so I'm going to follow the lead up to whoever wins the election. And I'm going to document what happens after. So they said, okay. And so I was to begin filming in late October, you know, during the campaign trail, maybe mid October up until November....

and then in the following months to see what would happen. Um, this meant that I couldn't film anything for all gas, no breaks, the digital show, because I had to dedicate a hundred percent of my time to making this perfect movie. Yes. Still, one of the partners at doing things media was demanding that I not only produce the movie, but also more content for the show. And I told them, there's only so many hours in a day, man, that's going to be impossible. And I said, if you want it to be possible, I can make it work, but I want to have half of the monetization from the show, 50% profit split, which I thought is fair. If you want me to do double work when I was getting almost nothing before, split me in on the profits. They fired us immediately. Me and my two childhood friends who I hired to work on the show with me were all out of a job as we were filming for the now HBO project.
然后在接下来的几个月里看会发生什么。这意味着我无法为“不停地前进”的数字节目拍摄任何东西,因为我必须全身心投入制作这部完美的电影。是的。但是,Doing Things Media的一位合作伙伴要求我不仅要制作这部电影,还要为节目制作更多内容。我告诉他们,一天只有那么多时间,这是不可能的。我说,如果你希望这是可能的,我可以让它发生,但我想从节目获得一半的赚钱,即50%的利润分成,我认为这是公平的。如果你希望我做双份的工作,而之前我几乎得到的是微不足道的,那就和我分成利润。他们立即解雇了我们。我和我聘请一起为节目工作的两位童年朋友都失去了工作,因为我们正在为现在的HBO项目拍摄。

We got our fire notices, the guts on those, on that, and that person to, because you should be owning probably close to a hundred percent of it. I think so too, but they didn't see it that way because they figured we made the initial investment. We discovered him as how they looked at it. So it wasn't Reed, but it was the other partner who wasn't Reed who said, we have tons of verbatim. He said this, we have, I have tons of connections in the comedy world. We can replace Andrew overnight. I'm not sure why he made that miscalculation. I wish he would have thought about it twice. I wish he didn't have to end like that, but it did. Why do people do that? Like what's the benefit of acting like that? I think you can part amicably without the drama. I think all betrayal in anything like that is motivated by self-interest, whether that be economic success, social stability, whatever it is. They figured that because I was being such a burden and asking for the profit that they could just release me and find someone equally talented and not split them in so they can make more money.

I see. Well, that's a stupid way to think. People think like that, man. People who are the word I use is like sidekick syndrome. Like when people are kind of a part of the production, but they're not integral, they start thinking that the front man doesn't matter or something and that the brains of the operation are actually the people on the periphery. And so they start to believe that they can just shift things around and the audience won't care, not realizing that I was actually the one who created the show and that the lore of the show is connected to my rise outside of their jurisdiction, if that makes sense. Like the people who watch all gas, no breaks, watched quarter confessions and read the book.

And so, you know, this happens also not just financially, but just with people that sort of part of a team, but they don't really contribute creatively to the team and they, they force their opinion or pressure. Yeah, whether it's constant, like from editors or all that kind of stuff, or from sponsors or this, there's pressure they create when they, when the creator alone should be celebrated and have all the power, because they're the ones that are creating the thing. In a way, I have sympathy because I can't relate to that because I've always been the front man of my own projects by design. So I'm not sure what it's like to be like someone's owner from a content perspective. I don't understand the challenges they face. Maybe there was something that I didn't understand. I don't know.

True. Well, oftentimes if you own a thing like this, like this company, you do think about brand. Right. And then maybe you have a big picture idea of what brand means and that that can be at tension with the creative project, right? Yeah. Like, but ultimately freedom for the creators is the best kind of brand. Yeah. I remember all three of us who worked on all gas, no brakes got fired at the same time. And we were in that we were in the RV that Tim and Eric's company bought for us, which is a bigger RV in the parking lot, parking lot of a Walmart in South Philly and the propane had just ran out and it was 15 degrees outside.

So like the RV was getting really cold really fast and I just looked at my phone and it was like, you're fired. And I was just like, God help me. I've had a couple moments like that and God does help me. And there were always in the parking lot of Walmart, right? Well, yeah, although I know that Walmart, by the way, the one in South Philly is great. Yeah, that's great. But technically now you can't park an RV there. Well, you're not, you're not a man who follows the rules. Well, if you don't understand, those Walmart, Cracker Barrel and Big Five are supposed to technically all let RV campers park overnight. But if there's like a crime problem in the city where they're at, they can lobby individual Walmarts can lobby with the corporate to take that away.
所以像是我们的房车真的很快就变得很冷,然后我看了看手机,上面写着“你被解雇了”。我只能说,上帝帮助我吧。我有几次这样的时刻,上帝确实帮助了我。而且这些时刻总是发生在沃尔玛的停车场,对吧?是的,尽管我知道沃尔玛,顺便说一句,南费城那家很棒。是的,那家很好。但从技术上讲现在你不能在那里停房车了。嗯,你不是一个遵守规则的人。嗯,如果你不明白,那些沃尔玛、Cracker Barrel和Big Five理论上都允许房车露营者在那里过夜。但如果城市里有犯罪问题,他们可以向公司游说,单个沃尔玛可以要求取消这项待遇。

So like all the Portland Walmarts, you can't sleep there anymore. Any city with like significant homelessness and like petty property crime, the Walmarts are at no go. Fascinating. So that was a low point. Yeah. And but from there from the ashes, the Phoenix Rose over time. Yeah. Channel five was born. Channel five was born in the March of 2021. After a we finished filming for the HBO project. Oh, really? So you went all in on the HBO project. Yeah. I mean, we filmed the HBO project from November 2020 up until April 2021. Damn here. We were just like, you know, picking up the pieces, going back for individual interviews, stuff like that. So let's go to that project. It turned out to be a movie called this place rules. It's supposed to be called America shits itself. Yeah. Maybe you can tell the story of the film. You have what's his name? I wrote this down. Joker gang and gum gang. Is that correct? Yeah. The opening scene. The opening scene of two characters just talking shit and then getting into a fight. And that I think was really brilliant how you presented that as a almost like a microcosm of like the division between the extremes and the left and the extremes of the right. That's exactly what it was. I'm glad you picked up on it.
所以就像所有波特兰的沃尔玛一样,你现在不能在那里睡觉了。在任何一个有严重流浪问题和小偷小摸犯罪的城市,沃尔玛就是个禁地。很有趣。所以那是一个低谷。是的。但从那里,凤凰在时间的洪流中崛起。是的。Channel five 诞生了。Channel five是在2021年三月诞生的。在我们为HBO项目拍摄结束后。哦,真的吗?所以你全力以赴去了HBO项目。是的。我意思是,我们从2020年11月拍到了2021年4月的HBO项目。该死这里。我们就像,你知道,整理残局,回去进行个别访谈等。那么让我们谈谈那个项目。结果是一部叫《这里是好地方》的电影。原本名为《美国正在崩溃》。是的。也许你可以讲一下这部电影的故事。你记得他叫什么名字吗?我记下来了。小丑帮和口香糖帮。是这样吗?是的。开场是两个角色聊天然后打起来。我觉得你如何把这个呈现出来,几乎像是左派和右派之间的极端分歧的一个微观例证,这点很精彩。那正是如此。我很高兴你能理解。

Yeah. And then what I really liked is that the joke again, um, Joker gang was kind of a little bit of a spoiler alert. I apologize, but at the end of the film is a kind of, um, a voice of wisdom. Yeah. I just realized he seems the most sane. He was the voice of wisdom. He like cut through it. Yeah. I also just realized that a lot of people are going to stream the movie after watching this podcast, which is cool. Yeah. Where do they stream it? I don't know. HBO Max. I never got a chance to promote the. It's such a pain. Yeah. Yeah. Man. I wish we could all just pay on it on YouTube or something.
是的。然后,我真的很喜欢的是笑话。对,小丑帮派又出现了,有点剧透。抱歉,但是电影的结尾有一种智慧之声。是的,我突然意识到他似乎是最明智的。他就像是智慧之声。他穿透了一切。是的。我也意识到很多人在听完这个播客后会去找这部电影看,这很酷。是的。他们在哪里看?我不知道。HBO Max。我从没机会宣传。真是痛苦。是的。是的。天啊。我希望我们都能在YouTube上付费观看。

Yeah. And HBO gets the profits or whatever, but like it's such a, that's a subscriber, every single thing. But yes, if you want to watch it, it's really, I recommend extremely highly sign up to HBO or whatever the hell on the positive note HBO is great to work with. Like that they're the most professional, like respectful company I've ever worked with pretty much. Like HBO has created some of the greatest like TV, but even in the background, like they get shit done. There's, there's no, there's no wait time. They have some of the best heavy hitters on their team for trailers, for posters, all the promotional apparatus they have is like super solid. Did you get like good notes from people there? Like how to a little bit man, but you know, it's a, it's a truly original, like documentary, like meaning like I just haven't seen anything like it. It's even like it's so like there's a humor and a lightness at the right kinds of moments. Mm hmm. Like it, like I said, there's like a rooster in your, that's like, okay, that's like a non-sequitur like thing as part of a storytelling. It kind of intensifies and reveals the absurdity of the division and how one, once like January 6th happens, like everybody that goes on to the next thing.

Yeah. It's like what happened to us is it was almost like a delirium that everybody was participating in some weird, just like, well, like people say, my enviruses, like all of a sudden we just got captured. Yeah. And people just like yelling each other doing the most ridiculous shit. And I mean, really January 6th, the way you presented, especially just reveals the circus of it all. I mean, it really broke the, the fourth wall, or a solid describe it because if you were at January 6th and the lead up, it felt like it was the beginning to a series of similar riots, but it just popped off so much that that was it. You haven't seen anything like it since. It was supposed to be a second one on January 20th. It was the actual inauguration. It never happened. It was a crazy time to be alive and around. And especially the relationship that I developed with Enrike Tario, who was the former chairman of the Proud Boys, he's now facing, you know, 23 years in prison. It's like a trip because I went to his house in Miami, maybe two weeks after January 6th and talking to him, it seemed like he didn't think anything was going to happen. He was just like, yeah, man, that was crazy. I'm glad I wasn't there. Like they're dumb for doing that. He even told me he doesn't think the election was stolen. Which is just a mind fluck. It's like, why'd you get everyone so hyped up? It's just weird to think about how so many people's lives are drastically altered forever because of that just bizarre moment in time that we'll always live on.

Yeah. What did you cue on on as part of that story? What'd you learn about QAnon from that? Um, just an all encompassing world of you, that family that I talked to, I call them a Cuban on family, but it's called the Spencer family. You know, they were non-political up until the stop the steel movement began in September of 2020. And within four months, their entire life revolved around the mythology and lore of Q and I've never seen in my life, a scyop just devoured people's minds in such an intense way and such a rapid period of time. And I love how the kids in the movie are also the voices of wisdom. This is the Spencer family. It's the kid who like goes to the full journey.

Yeah. I've like believing that whatever Hillary Clinton is a lizard and just believing all the worst versions of the conspiracy theories and then kind of waking up was like, what was the point? Yeah. It was heartbreaking to see his disappointment and his dad for even, you know, following QAnon so militantly because he was like, I felt like they let my dad down. I feel like they let our family down, you know, because January 6 was supposed to be the day according to QAnon that the storm happens and that the military is supposed to mobilize and arrest the members of the deep state. Clinton, Soros, all that. Trump was supposed to go into a helicopter. You know what I mean? And take control of the country back from, you know, the swamp and it didn't happen. In fact, the next day he was like almost denouncing it. Now he doesn't, but then he did.

And it was a really, I think it hurt people's pride a lot. My friend, Ford, Giotto below, he's a Trump rapper. He describes it that way. He said a lot of people's pride got hurt by January 6. Trump rapper. Oh, yeah, dude. Honestly, there's some pretty dope Trump rap out there. I'm serious. They, they're not going to rap. Yeah. Like you would think like, Oh, yeah, Maggie, there's no rappers there, but there's rappers and they do a pretty good job. They're good at delivering the messaging they want to deliver. Yeah. I mean, they think of stuff that I'm like, that's clever. Oh, they're like, they have some political depth. Yeah.

Well, I mean, is there something more you could say about like how Q and I works, like who's behind it? What's your sense of who's behind the whole thing? You know, I don't want this to sound rude or anything. I just don't care about Q and on. You know what I mean? I've, I've put so much thought into it. And I just can't seem to care about it. Was it like almost a disappointment? Cause like the, to me, it was like a thing that just captured a very large number of people's minds and then it just kind of faded. I guess that's why it just seems like it's gone. And the ideas of Q and on have just bled into mainstream standard conservative thinking, but there has to be a kind of retrospective. Like there's, that's the problem I have with COVID.

You know, a lot of stuff happened. Everybody freaked out. There's a lot of big drama around it. No, everyone was like, okay, forgot. Yeah. Just like moved that way. What are the lessons learned? Has anyone learned any lessons? Yeah. Like what exactly? And I don't want Q and on adherence to see this and think I don't care about them. Yeah. But like as far as who is behind it, the damage is done. Yeah. But what are the mechanisms that made it work? I mean, that's really, have you kind of like thought about that? I kind of think that these viral ideas can be driven by, and your film kind of shows this, but just a handful of people and they're not malevolent. They just want to cloud.

Yeah. And there's something sexy. There's something really sticky about conspiracy theories, like, especially extreme ones, you just kind of like it. Some of them can have this momentum. They capture the minds of a lot of people and you just go with it. Yeah. And like when I hear some conspiracy theories, like there's something like a small part of me that kind of like, yeah, it's positive. It's possible, you know, that Q and on is a scyop to distract people away from actually uncovering what the deep state is and who is truly running things behind the scenes because the deep state is just the 1%. It's that you take, you get people so close to any type of class consciousness.

And then you totally divert everything into like lizard humans who live on the moon and that Hillary Clinton is eating babies on camera. And Q and on did just that. That they want you to, they want to convince you that one, there's no conservative deep states, which is even more hilarious, that Trump isn't connected to a huge, rich corporate apparatus of propagandists. And two, that the democratic establishment is the only deep state and that some middle, middle of the road conservatives, that there's no grifters or manipulators outside of that three headed snake, you know, there's grifters everywhere.
然后你完全把一切都转移到了像是生活在月球上的蜥蜴人类,以及希拉里·克林顿在摄像头前吃婴儿的论点上。 Q和他们正是这样做的。他们想让你相信,一,不存在保守派的"深层国家",这甚至更加荒谬;特朗普并没有与大型、富有的企业宣传机构联系在一起。二,民主派的核心人物才是唯一的"深层国家",而一些中间派保守派认为,除了这三头蛇之外没有骗子或操纵者,其实骗子无处不在。

Everyone wants to make money, dude. This is the world that we're in. It's in collapse. Everybody wants to make money and engagement is the rule of law. So anything, that's why these news organizations follow retention incentives. They want to make money by selling ads. So they try to create fear and constant division to enrich corporate media establishment. And you have people who are almost realizing, hey, it seems like Fox and CNN. It might be owned by the same people and are tactically using these machines to keep us divided perfectly 5050 to ensure that the power structure never gets disrupted. And then you guys, then you get these people, you know, who's going to save us? Donald Trump. That's the guy. How is that the guy? It's not the guy.

I don't have TDS. I don't, I'm not an orange man, bash, or who thinks about the guy all the time, but I don't think he's the guy. Uh, you were shirtless. Lifting weights while whiskey or some alcohol was poured into your mouth by Alex Jones in this movie. And then you did the same to him. That's true. Mm hmm. It feels like an interrogation. Uh, so Alex was a, was a part of this film. He was like throughout, throughout the narrative. And yet he had a great interview with him.

Uh, what did you learn about interacting with Alex? Uh, well, for making this film for one is that he's the exact same off camera as he is on camera. Yeah. It's not an act. He told me that all real Americans die before 58. He mentioned Sean Connery and a few others. And, uh, hold this. Getting up there. Yeah. Think early fifties. Yeah. Um, I just found it fascinating. I mean, how, how nice his studio is. I mean, the guy's got like an MSNBC level set up. I actually had a great time with him. You know, I mean, it's bizarre because. Having him in that movie. Created so many problems for me. And when I interviewed him, you know, I didn't necessarily portray him in the best light. You know, we joked around a bit, but it wasn't Alex Jones hit peace necessarily, but I like to think that I was a bit critical of him in the film, especially the ways that he antagonized his supporters to storm the Capitol or to follow that trajectory.
嗯,你对与Alex互动学到了什么?嗯,首先拍摄这部电影的过程中,我发现他在镜头前后的确是一样的。是的,他不是在演戏。他告诉我真正的美国人都在58岁前就会去世。他提到了肖恩·康纳利和其他几个人。嗯,还有,拿着这个东西。年纪也大了。嗯,我觉得他大概五十多岁。我发现这一切很迷人。我的意思是,他的工作室有多漂亮。我想说,这家伙的设备有点像MSNBC的水准。我实际上和他相处得非常愉快。你知道,这有点怪异,因为。把他放在那部电影里给我带来了很多问题。当我采访他时,我不一定是把他描绘成最好的形象。我们有一些玩笑,但不完全是针对Alex Jones的批评,不过我希望在电影中对他有一些批评,尤其是他激励支持者冲击国会大厦或沿着那个轨迹前进的方式。

Um, he told me when I met with him, he was like, I know you think that having me in this movie is a good idea, but, um, you're going to have some serious backlash because of that. At the time, I was like, man, it's fine. You know, it's all good. We're just hanging out drinking whiskey, doing bench presses, drinking Jameson. It's all good. It was a first of all, I had to campaign to get him in the film because the studios were like, we don't, there was a bizarre time around like, I think it was 2018 where de-platforming was the big thing that people were encouraging. It said, giving a platform to problematic ideologies will in turn expand their reach. And so even extending your platform to someone who's problematic is helping them. AKA destroying humanity, whatever it was. So that was the whole thing.

And, uh, when I did this media training that was, you know, mandated by HBO, it was all training and how to defend from that exact question. They said, when we, when we put you on NPR and we put you on CNN, they're going to ask you about platforming problematic ideologies. And you're going to have to say stuff like sunlight is the best disinfectant. I believe that extremism only goes away when you shine a light on it because leaving it in the dark will only allow it to grow. They gave me like 15 pointers. Um, I didn't use any of those pointers because I'm not the kind of person who wants to be media trained.

I like to speak freely. But in the promotional run for the film, you know, when I went on CNN, this was a crazy experience. So I went on CNN and thankfully my friend was with me. And so I'm on CNN and by the way, your friend is chilling in sunglasses, laying in the couch. That's like the, the, it's a mix of like the dude from Big Lebowski and, uh, uh, the Brad Pitt role in, uh, true romance. Yeah. You know that reference. No, but I mean, I'm sure it describes Larry. So he kind of looks like Brad Jack. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so HBO had a press tour set up for me and the main ones were CNN and NPR. And so they said, we're going to, you're going to go on CNN on the Don Lemon Morning show and he's going to ask you about your life, what led up to the movie, what we can expect. So I get in the studio. It's about seven o'clock in the morning in New York at his show the night before at Times Square. So I'm like groggy eyed, whatever. They put the lab on me. Boom. I'm live on CNN Sunday morning. And he goes, how would you describe Enrique Tario's mental state in the lead up to the Capitol in Surrection? And I'm, I'm looking around. I'm like, is this guy serious? Like, am I, am I sandwiched in the January six hit piece right now? Yeah. I thought it was about me. Yeah. And so I told him it's not about Enrique Tario. It's about how companies like Fox, MSNBC and even your station, CNN, use the 24 hour news cycle to enrage people to generate ad revenue and pit Americans against each other during times like that. And he said, there's nothing fake about CNN. I said, I didn't say you were fake news. I'm not saying you're lying, but you're directly antagonizing and stirring people up against half the country because you need money during to support a dying platform.
我喜欢自由地说话。但在电影宣传期间,你知道的,当我上CNN时,这是一个疯狂的经历。所以我上了CNN,幸运的是我的朋友和我一起。所以我在CNN上,顺便说一句,你的朋友正在沙发上戴着墨镜,很悠闲。就像《大卫·莱博夫斯基》里的那个家伙,还有《真实的罗曼史》里的布拉德·皮特角色的结合。是的,你懂得那个参照。不,但我想它描述了拉里。所以他看起来有点像布拉德·杰克。 是的。是的。所以HBO为我安排了一次媒体巡回宣传,主要是CNN和NPR。所以他们说,你要去CNN参加唐·莱蒙早间节目,他会问你生活,电影前的经历以及我们可以期待什么。所以我进入录音室。大约是早上七点,在纽约的时代广场,前一天晚上的演出就在那里。所以我感觉昏昏欲睡,不管怎样。他们给我戴上话筒。嘭。我就在CNN周日早上直播了。他问,你会如何描述恩里克·塔里奥在国会暴乱前的精神状态?我四处看看。我想,这家伙是认真的吗?像这种一月六号事件的负面报道?是的。我以为是关于我的。是的。所以我告诉他,这不是关于恩里克·塔里奥,而是关于像福克斯,MSNBC甚至你们这个台,CNN,如何利用24小时新闻周期煽动人们,挣钱,在那种时候把美国人对立起来。他说,CNN没有任何虚假。我说,我没说你们是假新闻。我不是说你们在撒谎,但你们直接对抗和激怒人们,使半个国家针对另一半,因为你们在支持一个垂死平台赚钱。

You said that pretty much. And great. You know, I was so my mom was watching it. She was texting me. She was like, what are you doing? And I was like, I don't know. And so he goes, why'd you extend the platform to Alex Jones? And I go, I don't know. I just wanted to drink some Jamison and lift some weights with him. You know, I'm just at this point, I don't support that kind of media. I don't support CNN. So, you know, I just, I didn't give them much information about Alex, but it was very awkward. They never posted the segment online. When I got off of that interview, I had a handler that a 24 assigned to me. So I had someone with me and she, you could tell she was flustered. Like she was furious about what I just did. And so she goes, I just got an email from Time Warner C suite. And I go, what's Time Warner C suite? She says, I don't know if you know this, but the same people who own the same people who own CNN own HBO and it's time Warner.
你说得挺不错。很好。你知道吗,我当时正在看节目。我妈妈在看。她发短信给我。她问我在干什么?我说我不知道。然后他问我,为什么要邀请Alex Jones参加节目?我说,我不知道。我只是想和他一起喝点Jameson威士忌,做些重量训练。你知道的,我已经达到了这个程度,我不支持那种媒体。我不支持CNN。所以,你知道,我没有给他们太多关于Alex的信息,但是那个时候非常尴尬。他们从未在网上发布那一部分。当我结束采访时,有一个24小时跟我在一起的助手。所以有人陪着我,她显然很慌张。她对我刚做的事情感到愤怒。于是她说,我刚收到了时代华纳公司高管的邮件。我问,时代华纳公司高管是什么?她说,我不知道你是否知道,拥有CNN的人同时拥有HBO,这就是时代华纳公司。

And so they canceled my press tour. So my press store was finished. You know, all the late night shows that I was supposed to go on, I was supposed to go on like the late night shows. And that was off the table because they were worried that I was like a loose cannon, I think. And then the only remaining appearance I had left was NPR in Boston. And that was supposed to be a premiere. So it wasn't supposed to be an interrogation. It wasn't supposed to be anything like that. It's supposed to be a premiere in front of a live audience where they watch the film and I show up after for a Q&A.
所以他们取消了我的新闻发布会。所以我的新闻故事结束了。你知道我原本要去的所有深夜节目,我应该去的就像深夜节目一样。但因为他们担心我像一颗不定时炸弹,所以这个计划被搁置了。然后我唯一剩下的一个安排是在波士顿的 NPR。那原本应该是一场首映。不是应该是一场审问。不是应该是任何那样的事情。它应该是一场在现场观众面前观影并在之后我进行问答环节的首映式。

So I'm like, all right, whatever. It's kind of weird to only have this one press opportunity left. I kind of felt bad that I ruined the entire press tour by confronting Don Lemon. But at this point, I wanted to just do this final one, especially because it was a viewing. And I was like, cool. I sat in the audience. I watched people laugh to the film. It was awesome. So I go backstage and there's an NPR journalist waiting for me and nothing against people who wear masks, but she had two N95s on. And I'm not two N95s. It's over the line. So I go, Hey, great to meet you. She doesn't shake my hand. And I go, why not? And she goes, you've been around some people who I don't want their germs. Yeah. And I'm like, OK, OK, this is weird. I thought this is a sort of like fun premiere for my movie. We sit down.
所以我就像,好吧,随便你。只剩下这一个媒体采访的机会有点奇怪。我有点觉得糟糕,因为我在对Don Lemon发飙时毁了整个媒体宣传行程。但是此时,我只想完成这最后一个,特别是因为这是一个观影会。我坐在观众席上看着人们笑着看电影,真棒。然后我走到后台,有一位NPR的记者在等我,不是针对戴口罩的人,但她戴了两个N95口罩。我觉得这有点过分。我说,嘿,很高兴见到你。她没握我的手,我问,为什么?她说,你和一些我不想接触的人在一起过。嗯,我说,好吧,这有点奇怪。我原以为这是我的电影的一个有趣首映会。我们坐下来。

The first thing she asks me is, how do you think the Sandy Hook families would feel about you platforming one of the most despicable Americans in history, Alex Jones? In front of a live audience. NPR never published this. The only recordings of it are by a fan named Rob in Boston who put it on YouTube, vertical phone footage. And I literally am like, well, the Sandy Hook family's lawyer, Mark Bankston, who represented them in court in Connecticut told me specifically that Leonard Posner, the father of Noah Posner, who died at Sandy Hook was a huge fan of the film. And so I said that to her and that kind of just like silence that conversation. But the rest of the whole conversation was just about exploitation and why are you platforming mentally ill people and giving a platform to conspiracy like Q and on? Don't you feel like you're a part of their spread? Someone call you a misinformation reporter. All this crazy stuff. And yeah, next day hit the fact.
她对我说的第一件事是,你觉得Sandy Hook的家庭会怎么看待你在现场演讲一个历史上最卑劣的美国人亚历克斯·琼斯?NPR从未发表过这个演讲。唯一的录音是波士顿的一个名叫罗布的粉丝上传到YouTube上的竖屏手机录像。我当时就说,Sandy Hook的家庭律师马克·班克斯顿曾专门告诉我,康涅狄格州法院代表他们的伦纳德·波斯内尔,也就是诺亚·波斯内尔的父亲,看了我的电影很喜欢。于是我就告诉了她,结果她就沉默了。但接下来的对话都是关于利用和为何给精神病人和谣言如“Q和安”一个平台。你难道不觉得你参与了他们的传播吗?有人还称你是一个造谣记者。所有这些疯狂的事情。然后,就在第二天,事实被揭露了。

Fuck all those people. That film, just in case you don't get a chance to see it and you should. Your critical of Alex Jones in the most. Artful way, like it was the correct way to be critical. It showed him to be more interested in the grift of it. Yeah. And you didn't do it in a like appointing fingers and like saying in the kind of NPR way that you just mentioned, it's more like a human way. Like this is tragedies happen all over the world and there's grifters that roll in and then take advantage of it in interesting ways. And then human beings get swept up on either side of it and it's revealing the human, the absurdity of it all. And it was done masterfully. It was done like for people who criticize you for platforming, Alex Jones or whatever.
去他们妈的那些人。那部电影,万一你没有机会看到,你应该看一看。你以一种最巧妙的方式批评了亚历克斯·琼斯,就好像这是正确的批评方式一样。它展示了他更感兴趣于牟取暴利。是的。而且你没有像在说指责和在类似 NPR 方式中所述那样说。它更像是以一种人性化的方式。就像这种悲剧在全世界发生,有些人趁机牟利,以有趣的方式利用它。然后人类被卷入其间,揭示了整个荒谬的一面。这是被巧妙地完成的。它是为那些批评你支持亚历克斯·琼斯或其他人的人们而做的。

Yeah. The film from a political perspective is probably leans very much left, like heavily left, but does it without that exhausting energy of like judging, right? Just this kind of, you know, yeah, two masks kind of judging. Yeah. And it was just a. When all that was happening, when I was under fire from the mainstream press for platforming Alex Jones, I thought back to what he said to me and doesn't mean I agree with everything he says, but he told me you're going to be in trouble with these people if you put me in your, in your video. And, you know, it wasn't too bad in trouble, but definitely I do think sometimes what the film would have been like without him.

And I think that it was worth it because his scene is so funny to me and it brings me back to a different time in my life. And I'm happy that that scenes out there. I think it was really well done. It's been the layering of it all. The entertainment plus sort of not considering from his perspective the consequences of like rallying people up in this way that it's not just, I mean, you really highlight this in the interview, like it's, he keeps saying it's info wars. But then there's always kind of a sense that info was concerned to actual like civil war and yeah, but maybe not. Maybe it's all just a circus like we play for each other. If you look at the speech he did on January 5th, it was said, he said tomorrow, you know, millions of patriotic Americans will take our country back.

Yeah. So he eggs people on and then when it gets hot, he steps away. Yeah. But like you said, the thing he told you, he turned out to be right. Oh, yeah. And the frogs are becoming gay. They've always been gay. Well, saying frogs are straight is even crazier. I've read stories where you kiss one and becomes a prince. Yeah, shit's true. A hundred percent. You think Alex believes what he says in terms of the everything he says on info wars, like how much of Israel he's right about like big tech censorship. I think if he's right about anything, it would probably be the heads of big tech colluding together across company lines to deep platform, certain people. He's right about that. I think most of the things that he says follow the question, everything narrative and then everything is kind of like a conspiracy. Like a plot or a false flag. I think that he's built up a following for so long that wants him to do that. You know, so I think he'll question things that he probably thinks are relatively straightforward because that's the shtick of the show. I mean, the info war is fighting misinformation and people want to see him be that guy to to to a certain extent. If you're a creator who supports your family, you do follow economic incentives and people want you to be the character. And so you're going to naturally gravitate toward being it.
是的。所以他煽动人们,然后当局势升温时,他就退后了。是的。但就像你说的,他告诉你的那件事,结果证明他是对的。哦,是的。而且青蛙变成同性恋了。它们一直都是同性恋的。说青蛙是异性恋的更疯狂。我读过故事,你亲吻一个青蛙就变成王子。是的,这是真的。百分之百是真的。你觉得Alex相信他在info wars上所说的一切,比如他对以色列有多少东西是对的,比如大科技公司的审查。我觉得如果他有什么是对的,那可能是大科技公司的负责人共谋跨越公司界线,将某些人下架。他在这方面是对的。我觉得他说的大部分事情都是按照质疑一切的叙事走向,然后一切都像是一个阴谋或假旗行动。我觉得他积累了这么长时间的追随者,他们希望他这样做。所以我觉得他可能会质疑一些他认为相对简单的事情,因为这就是这档节目的套路。我是说,info war是在打击错误信息,人们希望看到他成为那个人,某种程度上。如果你是一个支持家庭的创作者,你会遵循经济激励措施,人们希望你成为某种角色。所以你自然而然会倾向于成为那个角色。

Do you feel that pressure yourself? I did years ago, not anymore. I feel like now I can speak freely and really say what I want to say in my new life. But when I was younger, yeah, I feel like I had to be this sort of awkward, sort of amicable, aloof guy who just didn't think anything about anything and just was here to listen. But now I feel more confident adding some narrative and voiceover and things like that. So for some people, especially who publish on YouTube, the YouTube algorithm that can become a slave to the YouTube algorithm. Yeah, I mean, for sure. Because I definitely feel that sometimes. I know what works for me, but I like to think that my audience appreciates when I try new things. So I'm not totally enslaved to it.

I mean, yeah, I try not to pay attention to views or any of that. Well, you get some high views. So I'll report that for you. So I wrote a Chrome extension that hides all the views on anything I create. So you took it to that level? Yeah, just because it's a drug, man. And I'm also a number guy, meaning like you give me like, if I do 30 pushups today, tomorrow I'm going to try to do 35 just like enjoying number go up. Like that's why I like video games like RPGs, like where you're like improving your skill tree. You're like getting an extra point. And there's some aspect of YouTube and other platforms, anything, any other platform. You're like, Oh, I got more to that than yesterday. That's really, really dangerous to me because it can influence how much I enjoy a thing. Like if nobody gives a shit about it based on the numbers, you're like, Oh, maybe that wasn't such a great experience. I thought it was a great experience, but maybe it wasn't.

Yeah, honestly, I do actually feel that way. Like I'll put out something that I care about a lot. But if it doesn't get as many views, I'm like, all right, it must not be as good as my higher view videos or whatever. Yeah, that's that's just like not true, though. Yeah. And it might mean like on YouTube that your thumbnail socks or something like this or whatever, however, the algorithm works. But I mean, that's the thing I'm battling against to make sure I ignore all of that. Right. And it's actually something Joe Rogan has been extremely good at. He gives zero shits. Yeah. And I think it's easier to do when you're really successful. Well, he was doing that when he wasn't successful. Really? But anything, he just follows like the stuff he enjoys doing and they generally enjoys it. He happens to be really good at it, but he gets good because he's doing the things he really enjoys and like full on.

Yeah. Passionate about. And that's why he'll have like ridiculous guests and just like just shit he enjoys doing. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Maybe I'll one day try to do that. For now, I'm too attached to like the gratification of getting a million views in a day and stuff like that. I'm not going to allow you and say that I beat that or something like what it's a worthy enemy to be fighting because it's a drug. And it's one that should be resisted for a creator because I feel like it can do negative stuff to your mind as a creator. Oh, yeah, for sure. Anybody that controls you is not good. A lot of people are controlled by their audience. They don't have to have a puppet master on a corporate level. Audience incentive is a different type of. I don't want to say slavery, but yeah, it is. And that's why variety is good and you're doing that.

Yeah, I was expanding. Well, let me just zoom out on this. You made a film. Yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it was a great experience, man. I mean, it was awesome working with Tim and Eric, awesome working with Jonah Hill. I feel the same about HBO and A24. Everybody that I worked on the film with, I have a lot of love for and I appreciate the experience. My first movie, it's a big deal. Like it was a good one in my head. It's like I finally got to make the transition from YouTuber to filmmaker. And that was always this psychic barrier that I felt like I had to jump over, you know, there's a, I mean, just the way it shot, the humor that goes throughout it. Just the narration that you're doing in like a shitty director's chair. That's really well done. Who's idea was that it was actually Tim and Eric's idea. There was a really great editor named Clay who works for Absolutely. And they did all the editing pretty much in the office. And so it was Clay's idea to add a retrospective director's chair, narrative arc to the film.
是的,我正在扩张。让我简要谈谈这个。你拍了一部电影。是的,那很酷。是的,和Tim和Eric一起工作真的很棒,与Jonah Hill一起工作也很棒。我对HBO和A24也有同样的感觉。和我一起拍电影的每个人,我都非常喜爱,我感激这次经历。这是我的第一部电影,对我来说意义重大。在我心中,这是个伟大的作品。我终于从一个YouTuber 转型成了一名电影制作人。这总是我感觉必须跨越的心理障碍,你知道,从拍摄的方式,贯穿其中的幽默,到你在一张破烂的导演椅上的叙述方式。这都做得很出色。谁的主意?是Tim和Eric的。有一个非常棒的名为Clay的编辑师,他为Absolutely工作。他们几乎所有的编辑都是在办公室里进行的。所以是Clay提出在电影中加入一段回顾性的导演椅叙事。

Yeah, just like starting with the absurd fight and then going like, oh, that's a good way to start a movie. Just really, really well done. Thanks. Well, what about Jonah Hill? Like great guy. He believed in this. He did. So was that, what's that like? What do you think is behind him believing in such a wild project? I think that Jonah Hill has a good eye for like what's cool amongst the younger folks. Like he's in the skateboarding stuff. That's why he did that film mid nineties. And I think he probably saw a similar thing and what was going on with all gas, no breaks. And was like, shit, this could be, this could be big. And so not only did he actually fund the film, he also gave me his agent. And I forgot to mention that it was Jonah Hill's lawyer that he gave me for free. That got me out of my contract, eventually with doing things media or freed me up to speak about what happened. So he was also a part of you kind of gaining your freedom. Yeah, in a weird way, like even though him and I don't talk that much, just because he's doing his own thing, Jonah Hill is like a huge factor in my current success and just like everything that I've been able to accomplish.
是的,就像从荒谬的打斗开始,然后像说,“哦,这是一个电影的好开头。”做得非常非常好。谢谢。那么,乔纳希尔呢?像一个很棒的家伙。他相信这个项目。他是的。那么,那是怎么样的?你认为他为什么相信这样一个疯狂的项目?我觉得乔纳希尔对年轻人中的时髦东西有敏锐的眼光。比如他对滑板的热爱。这就是为什么他拍了那部电影《九十年代中期》。我认为他可能看到了《全速前进》中发生的类似情况,然后想,天啊,这可能会很大。所以他不仅资助了这部电影,还将他的经纪人介绍给了我。我还忘了提到,就是乔纳希尔免费给我的律师帮我解雇了与公司Doing Things Media的合同,最终让我得以畅所欲言。所以他也是让你获得自由的一部分。是的,在某种程度上,尽管他和我关系不是很紧密,因为他在忙很多别的事情,但乔纳希尔对我目前的成功以及我所能实现的一切都起到了极大的作用。

Just on your own politics, is it fair to say that your politics leans left? I'm not really sure sometimes. You know, I like to think that I am socially left. Like I think people should be able to dress and act like however they want. I don't believe in restricting people's social freedoms. Economics wise, it doesn't seem like leftist economic policy works very well on a city, city funding level. Like if you see what's going on in California, it seems like the the city leadership is mishandling the funds in California too. So I don't know about that. But I don't know. I don't really see myself as left or right. I just never have.

Well, if you just like objectively zoom out and don't have an insane standard of the extremes, it feels like a lot of your work leans left. I tend to lean toward lean toward like the empathetic perspective, which I do think is more on the left and the right. But I also I'm not into like super like PC stuff. You know, I don't believe in limiting free speech either. I don't believe that I believe in a free internet, which I think is more embraced now by conservatives. But it does seem that maybe you can correct me, but it gets a sense sometimes that the left. Attack their own very intensely. It does happen. But every community has terms of exile. I mean, look, imagine what, think about what happens in the conservative realm. You know, like when Black Rifle Coffee Company like denounced Kyle Rittenhouse. They lost a lot of money too. Like it's not the right attacks its own too. I mean, think about Bud Light and stuff like date. It's like, I mean, you know, like every community has terms of exile. You just got to know who you're engaging with and you got to make that decision carefully. It'd be nice if there's an actual write up of the things you're not about to say for each thing. And then yeah, I wonder whose list would be longer. It just does feel like the less list is a little longer. If you're a conservative and you have a T-shirt with like a demon on it, like say goodbye. You know, I mean, there's certain stuff that they freak the hell out about. And conservatives are really concerned about pedophiles. Yeah, I mean, I don't like pedophiles either, but I don't think about it all the time.

It was one of the things you do in the film is kind of confront one of the QAnon folks where his concern is that everybody's a pedophile and you showed to him. Well, it calls himself a pedophile hunter and makes videos exposing democratic elite pedophile cabals and it is himself a convicted child molester. There's an old thing that people say that every confession, every accusation is a confession to a certain extent. So like it's bizarre that some people's whole life after a big mistake will revolve around trying to seem like the good guy instead of taking accountability for themselves.

Yeah, it's a common thing you see all the time, like neighborhood watch people. You know what I mean? Like, what made you that? You know, like, what did you do, bro? You feel like you have to get karmic retribution by doing the reverse. I don't get it. Yeah. Do you think to the degree of bias that affects your journalism? No, but I mean, with the migrant situation. I don't know. What was that covering that? Like I just got a lot of hate from conservatives for like letting the migrants tell their stories about their journey and stuff.

Well, what did you learn from just going to the border? I mean, just the sheer desperation that the citizens of the world are in. I mean, there's people who truly believe that America is the only hope for their success and to feed their family. And I think a lot of them are kind of getting catfished. Meaning America has its problems too. It has severe problems. There's extreme poverty here. But they're in America. Like if you just compare to other nations, the level of corruption is much lower to where the opportunity for person to succeed, to rise is higher. I wish success on everybody who comes here. But my thing is the expectation that they have in the sort of American dream propaganda they've been installed with isn't necessarily a reflection of contemporary American reality.

So I'm talking to people who speak no English and say, I'm here for a better life. I go, where are you going to go? They say, I have no idea. And I'm like, man, that's tough. And you almost think how bad are things elsewhere for someone to abandon their family, make this journey across multiple continents and end up here with no plan. And it just made me realize how sheltered I am to a certain extent as an American and going, walking back what I said a little bit, because I was just trying to make a point. But what I think of as bad poverty, like, let's say, West Baltimore, or ninth word New Orleans, is nothing compared to what's going on in almost half of the world, if not more. And so it just made me zoom out a little bit. Sometimes you forget about third world poverty when you live here for so long. And you get programmed to believe the worst things that are out there is like Kensington Philadelphia or Tenderloin San Francisco.

But those are just microcosms of more or less functioning cities, despite what they might lead you to believe. Philadelphia is a great place. So is San Francisco, but there's places where everywhere is really run down. Yeah, like people focus on in major cities in the United States, like homelessness. Somehow that's a sign of a fallen empire. Right. But that's a problem. There's definitely it reveals some mismanagement of cities and go. I mean, homelessness in Seattle and San Francisco is for sure a result of the housing crisis, especially post COVID and all the gentrification that preceded it.

You know, and it's unfortunate now to that the conservative media is saying, like look at Biden's America as if Biden created homeless people. And it's just disappointing because once again, you're seeing the media use real issues that should concern every US citizen and causing people to point fingers at a different political party as responsible for the suffering of others. Do you think January 6th can happen again? No. So all the lessons were learned. Yeah, for sure. I mean, people got really screwed over. I mean, don't you have a sense that there's a greater and greater growing questioning of the electoral process and all this kind of stuff?

I think that Americans overall are very comfortable with our standard of living. I think people like going to Sonic and waiting in their car and getting milkshakes and people like going to the AMC theaters and they like going ice skating and mini golfing and going to the bar after work. I don't think that anyone wants a collapse of the basic structure of the country, even the most politically divided don't want to see 7-11 go away. We are so comfortable. If you look at other countries, even Europe, look at how they protest and look at the Arab Spring, those guys were talking like January 6thers and they actually took control of the government. Yeah.

You know, and so think about even if the Maga crowd took over the Capitol building, it's just a building. I don't know. I just think that Americans when they talk about civil war stuff, it's just so we're so far from that, even if the rhetoric is as divided as it was in 2020, it won't happen again. For it to really happen, it has to be there has to be a level of desperation. There has to be a level of economic desperation that's causing people to starve or some basic resource going away, water, something like that. Who do you think wins Trump or Biden in the Civil War? Well, no, in the guns in a game of Mario Kart. In the election 2024. Oh, man, I have no idea, man. I don't even know if I'm going to vote. It's weird that this is our choice. I know. I wish people were more focused on city politics. I'd rather vote like yes or no for a bike lane in my neighborhood than I would for the president.

So local politics to use where it is. I think the future. Oh, I mean, you can your vote actually matter. Let's say you have a community of 500 people and you live in Henderson, Nevada. You can influence whether or not there's a bike lane or if this is going to be a playground or, you know, an AMPM, you get to choose and you can influence a hundred people to choose and boom, this is your community. You can't influence the result of an election. Still that the those at the presidential level, it sets the toll of the country. And so Trump running again and Biden running again. It just feels like there's going to be a lot of questioning of election results. I just can't believe those are our guys.
在本地政治方面发挥作用是很重要的。我觉得未来很重要。哦,我是说,你的选票实际上是很重要的。假设你住在内华达州亨德森市,有一个拥有500人的社区。你可以影响是否应该建一个自行车道,或者这里是否应该建一个游乐场,或者一个 AMPM ,你可以做出选择,影响100个人的选择,这就是你的社区。你不能影响选举结果,尤其是总统选举,它决定了国家的命运。现在特朗普再次参选,拜登再次参选。看来对选举结果会有很多质疑。我简直无法相信他们是我们的领导者。

Yeah. I mean, what is that's really our guys? Like that's where we're at. All these smart people we have in this country, the great history. We got Joe Kugang versus Gom Gang. Where'd you find Joe Kugang? Well, is he a legit juggle? Oh, is he just? No, no, no, no. Joker Gang is like a Miami Cuban guy. Oh, is Joker 305 rawest Chico alive? So me and I have been following him for a long time on Instagram because he's still like post videos of himself, like popping percussets and smoking blunts on the toilet freestyling. And so I had followed him for a while and then I finally got this platform and I said, Oh my God, I bet you now that we have a million followers, Joker Gang will sit down with us and lo and behold, the clout did its thing and there I was face with the man. There was a controversy a year ago where a woman came forward and said that you were pushing with her. You respected and know you got the consent, but you were pushing about it. Looking back, can you tell the story of that? What are the lessons you learned from it?

Yeah, I mean, I've yet to speak on this for a lot of reasons, mostly because it's just it was a hard time and it's a sensitive subject. And I've wanted to prioritize the reporting. But I think that now I'm ready and able to do so. Everything sort of started on December 30th, 2022. And that was the release date of the HBO project. Like I told you, we didn't know when the movie was going to come out. We weren't told that it was going to come out on that date until early November and so it was like, Oh my God, here we go. We got a movie coming out HBO had I didn't even know it was going to be them.

So every day for those 50 days, to where I received word and to the movie announcement or to the movie release, was like I was like a kid waiting for Christmas morning. You know what I mean? It was like every day I just I saw the movie release date as the first day of like the rest of my life. And so I remember the week of the movie release, it was like every day I was like, Oh my God, six days, five days, four days. And when it became two days, like I was so excited and so like honestly anxiety riddled because it was such a massive platform that I went out to the desert by myself out in the Mojave got a hotel and just kind of sat there. And then movie release day comes. I was supposed to come out at 8 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. I remember it was like 12 hours left, 10 hours left and then eight minutes before the movie at 752.

Or I guess it was sent at 1052 East Coast time. I got a text message requesting a portion of my fat HBO check to contribute toward apparently years of therapy bills that this person had accrued after. She says that she felt that I pressured her into giving consent years prior. And I was confused not only because of the timing, but because this is someone that I hadn't seen in years or spoken to in years and I presume that I was on good terms with. So I didn't respond to the text message. And then when I didn't respond about seven days later, this person made some TikTok videos and with the help of some friends, launched an online campaign they got picked up by the press pretty quickly.

So what did you feel like when you got that text? Well, it's tough because on one hand, I'm not opposed to restitution being part of a private accountability process for real abuse. You know, like if you've heard someone to an extent that it took them out of work or something, like I think they're entitled to some money. But unfortunately, as I later learned, this person had legal counsel and this was an attempt to basically create evidence by extracting a confession from me to use as precedent for a civil lawsuit to the tune of a couple million dollars. It's dark. Yeah.

How did you meet this person? Well, I met them when I was 22 and like I told you, I was living in an RV, making the show called All Gas No Breaks. And I would travel between cities like every other day. And so I would basically pick a new city and I got in this like pretty bad habit of what I would say is essentially treating Instagram like a like a dating app. You know, I would go to a new place. I'd post my location, I'd surf the DMs and I would look for like fans to meet up with. It wasn't always girls. It was just people to party with because I was also partying every night. But a lot of times ended up being girls and stuff. And so that's kind of how this situation was.
你是怎么认识这个人的?嗯,我是在22岁的时候认识他们的,就像我告诉你的那样,我当时住在一个房车里,做一个叫做All Gas No Breaks的节目。我每隔一天就要在不同的城市之间旅行。所以我基本上会选择一个新的城市,然后养成了一个坏习惯,你可以说我把Instagram当成约会应用来用。我会去一个新地方,帖出我的位置,我会查看私信,寻找像粉丝这样的人来见面。并不总是女生,而是想找人一起狂欢,因为我也每天都在狂欢。但很多时候最终还是和女生们一起。所以这就是当初认识这个人的情况。

I didn't have sex with this person. Had a consensual encounter that they reached out to me about two weeks after saying, hey, I don't want you to take this the wrong way. But looking back, I felt a lot more pressure to agree than I realized in the moment. I don't think this is any fault of yours. I just think that you came on a bit too strong and I didn't want to let you down. So I gave in and it was that language made me feel horrible, mainly because if this person had told me, hey, I don't want to hook up, I would have said, yeah, of course not.

Well, I don't want to hook up with someone who doesn't want to hook up with me. And I think that as fame increased during that time, I think I was just kind of oblivious to how people were seeing me, especially those who had a digital relationship with me prior to me knowing them. And I don't think that I handled that the right way. Well, thank you for taking accountability. But just to clarify, you got consent. Yeah, I was the initiatory party in an interaction with a fan who felt it. She had to say yes because of I'm not sure why. I don't know why, but like I said, this person also disclosed to me that had a history of childhood trauma and were actively being treated for PTSD and that they felt things moved too fast for them, given their situation. And so I told her, I said, hey, if you want to reach out, if you want to talk on the phone, I'm always here for you. I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know if we can talk further. About six months after that, I was at Sturgis Bike Week. And I remember this day, this was the hardest day. I was just chilling and I got a text from my friend and said, Hey, man, you're getting canceled right now. And I was like, what do you mean? Like, did someone find an old tweet or something? What are you talking about? And I opened my phone and it was this Instagram story of me. It was like the ugliest picture of me you can find. It was like my face open that was like screen shotted. And it said, I remember this specifically because I just couldn't believe it. It said the ugly loser who hosts all gas, no breaks is a piece of shit. He knowingly abused my friend and got away with it. If you follow him, I'm going to message you and ask you why.

So this person who I don't know, I didn't even know where who the accusation was coming from. They text they emailed every production company that I was working with. Dm'd hundreds, if not thousands of people. Like just saying that like I was this piece of shit. And I didn't even know who this person was. So I was frantically calling and texting like every person that I'd seen intimately for the past year and be like, Hey, are we on good terms? Is everything OK? And then I figured out that the person was coming from Florida and I knew who it was. And so thankfully I reached out to the original person who I had the communication with and I said, Hey, like, I think this might have been you. This might have been your friend who posted this. Are we good? Like, I'm sorry. I apologize again. I was like, listen, I feel bad that you feel this way. I want to do anything that I can to help you again. I apologize. And she said apology accepted. I'm sorry. My friend asked if I could if she could post on my behalf and I'm sorry, I was going through a lot mentally and I saw your fame increasing. And so I agreed to let her speak on my behalf. And we let we made amends in private. You know, I said, OK, I'm here for you. Let me know. And she said apologies enough. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. And that was two years prior to this text message being sent to my phone eight minutes before the movie.

So naturally, I wanted to go on my platforms and talk about what was happening. But I also didn't want to mess up the rollout of the movie. You know, and so the PR firm was like, we got this. We'll handle this for you. And that was, I guess, by way of a TMZ thing that said Andrew Callahan is devastated. I'm not sure why they thought that that was going to make people be in my favor. But yeah, just a picture of me on NBC that said Andrew Callahan devastated by allegations that that was their plan, I guess, to show that I was remorseful or something, you know, how much of this do you think lawyers kind of pushing this one money in favor involved? Well, I wish I could say the lawyer, but I just can't that was involved in this. But I will tell you that I try to lean away from resentment and toward accountability completely. What was my role in the situation? How can I never make someone feel like that again? What can I do? What changes can I make to make sure that one, I never treat someone this way and two, to never be in that position again?
自然地,我想要在我的社交平台上谈论发生的事情。但我也不想破坏电影的发布计划。你知道的,所以公关公司说,我们会处理这件事。我想这是通过 TMZ 发表的一篇文章说安德鲁·卡拉汉感到沮丧。我不确定他们为什么觉得这会让人们支持我。不过,就是一张我在 NBC 上的照片,上面写着安德鲁·卡拉汉受到指控感到沮丧,我想这是他们的计划,展示我是后悔的或者什么的,你觉得律师在这个问题中推动了多少金钱利益的?嗯,我希望我能说是涉及其中的律师,但我不能那样说。但我可以告诉你,我尽量避免怨恨,完全朝向问责。在这种情况下我扮演了什么角色?我如何才能不让某人再次有这种感觉?我能做什么?我可以做出哪些改变来确保我既不再这样对待某人,也不再陷入那种境地?

Well, again, thank you for taking accountability. And the main reason I talk about that is because it wasn't just that person. There was multiple people who made videos reporting similar behavior. And so it's obvious that that was a pattern of behavior of mine. And so I made the apology video to announce that I was taking some time away because I just needed time away. I mean, my entire support system collapsed. My friends at the time disappeared. I was getting like obituaries texted to my phone that were like, hey, it's been nice knowing you. It was great to see you grow. Good luck, you know, like I was dead. And yeah, it got dropped from my agency. No one gave me tough love. No one called me to ask me if I was all right. It was just only everyone disappeared in a week.

Again, thank you for taking accountability. But I just hate how many colors are out there. Like when people hit low points is when when you should help, when you should stand with them, if you know their character. Yeah. And it was just it was hard to separate like the initial situation that I knew was more or less a setup and the possible genuine other accounts. And so it was like, all right, you know what? At this point in my life, I want to be on the right side of history. I don't want to be the anti-cancel culture mouthpiece. I don't have the mental strength to fight this, especially because I was envisioning the HBO drop to be this like the world opens up to me moment and it was just the reverse. But it wasn't so much the media reporting on it that hurt me. It was just little stuff like a childhood friend. That you love seeing they unfollowed you on Instagram or just like seeing someone on the street that you're grew up with and like waving at them and they don't do anything back. And you're just like, oh, my God, man, like this is my new life. But what are you supposed to do?

Thankfully, I like somehow two weeks after I met an amazing partner who I'm still with to this day. And I was able to conquer my two biggest fears, which is monogamy and dogs. I was terrified of dogs and terrified of having a girlfriend. Now I have a girlfriend who I love and two dogs. So what was the lowest point? Well, right after this happened, I entered like a recovery programs. Started with AA, but then I found a more specialized program that dealt with the issues that I was dealing with. Say the hardest point was logically deducing that the lives of my loved ones will be better off if I was gone. You know what I mean? And thinking that my mom and my friends that their life would be better if I took myself out of the picture. And for one, I just figured, you know, their friends canceled. You know, her son is a disgrace. My family is going to think they raised me wrong. My friends, I'm a social pariah now. I'm a burden. I'm better off dead. And the hard part was, you know, I would read stories and books written by parents who lost their kids to suicide. And they reported feeling a lot of anger after the suicide. So I tried to think of what's the way I can do it to get the least amount of anger on behalf of the people who would grieve. Because hanging someone will discover you. So I figured drinking myself to death would be the way to do it. And I wasn't able to.

Yeah, that was just a dark place. I remember hating the people who loved me because I knew they would grieve and that made me mad. That makes sense. Like, I was ready to go. I had no will to live. But their grief was like, I didn't want to cause that. Couldn't want to hurt them. So I was like, I hated the people who loved me because they were stopping me from taking my own life. You know, and it's weird to think that, like, when I was going through that, if you walk by me in the street, I'll look like a normal guy.

And so now when I walk around and I see people, I think to myself, you have no idea what that person is going through, you know, like it's crazy that so many people are suffering in, like, complete silence and you can't, they don't wear it on them. You know, many of the people you talk to are probably that. Yeah. Many people you've interviewed before all this and after are probably going through some shit. And I also thought if I could write down what I just told you on a piece of paper and then I was to do it and then they found the note they would take it more seriously because they would know that I wasn't lying.

Yeah. But then you know that if you do it, it reduces the lifespan of your parents by 15 years. So I looked at it like I was taking time away from them. Well, thank you for the most part leaning towards accountability. It's the right path to take. What advice would you give to young men that look up to you on how they can be good men, especially in regard to women? If you have any kind of platform, you know, whether it doesn't have to be famous on Instagram, it could be like if you're a pillar of your community in the culinary world or whatever it is, just be hyper aware of that.

And remember that you are inheriting a power dynamic that can create situations where there might be some pressure that you don't even realize is there, but it's definitely there and you just have to be aware of that. And two, when meeting new partners, having hookups and stuff like that, just try to have a trauma informed conversation about their past. Really know the experiences and the back story of what a new partner has gone through in that world of intimacy, whatever they're comfortable to share, obviously. But, you know, I would advise against one night stands.

I would advise against hooking up with someone that you're meeting for the first time. Have those conversations prior because even though it might sound like a vibe killer, it's not. And if you think that that conversation is a vibe killer, you probably shouldn't be in that situation in the first place, especially now how hyper sexualized things are and how common that type of violence is, you need to be able to have those conversations and stop and say, hey, tell me a little bit about your past.

Is there any triggers to make you uncomfortable? Let me know how it can be the best partner to you. And I'm sure that college age people are not having those conversations, but I'm sure that it would go a long way. So especially when you're young, college aged, you don't have enough experience to be able to read a person without having that conversation. There's a lot of times you can see the trauma without explicitly talking about that takes experience and knowledge and seeing the world.

When you're young and you don't know, you really don't know shit, making things a bit more explicit is probably better. Yeah. And also, as men were trained to believe that it's our duty to be the initiatory party in any type of sexual encounter, like, oh, like man, she's this woman, you know what I mean? You have to be the one to make the move and or like she's playing hard to get if she's resistant to your first compliment or something.

I think that that's not always how it has to be and that extra caution needs to be placed if you're taking the initiatory role in an interaction, especially if someone has a traumatic background. They might agree to do something with you because they're scared and you might not realize that's what's going on, but because you don't you don't see yourself as a predatory person. You don't see yourself as someone who would ever consciously make someone uncomfortable or cross a boundary, but people have histories that you might not understand.

And for me, as someone who doesn't have much honestly, like childhood trauma or anything like that, it's been an interesting year for me working in therapy and elsewhere, understanding how that affects the mind. And also I understand hurt people hurt people and that someone with a traumatic background isn't going to have sympathy for applying that traumatic pain to someone else, even if that person isn't the cause of what put them in that spot.

If we can go back to Channel 5, can you tell the origin story of that? Yeah, I mean, Channel 5. We during the August, no breaks days, we used to tell people that we were called Channel 5 if we wanted them to stop antagonizing us while we were filming because every town has a Channel 5. So when people were like, what's this for? If they're being super rude and like trying to get in the camera and be hella obnoxious, we would just say, oh, we're Channel 5. And they would be like, oh, my grandma's going to see that and they would leave us alone. So Channel 5 was a diversion tactic during all gas, no breaks. And it just so happened that we were in Miami Beach one time. And this kid came up like drinking liquor, like, you know, trying to yell about like whatever they would, whatever they yell about in Miami Beach, like titties or whatever. And we're like, bro, this is Channel 5. Be careful what you say. And he was like, for real and he just walked off. And I said to my friend at the time, I was like, that's not a pretty good, right? Channel 5. And he goes, that's not pretty good. He's like, that's got to be trademark, though. No. It's not trademark.

It's crazy, right? There's a Channel 5 in every city, Channel 5 KTLA, Channel 5 Seattle, Como News. Dude, Channel 5 itself. We own it. Because no one's thought of something that simple because you'd think you'd have to specify we own Channel 5.com Channel 5. And dude, we own it. It's awesome. So it was the same kind of spirit as as the previous thing. Yeah. What was the first one you did under the Channel 5 flag Miami Beach spring break? I think I've seen that and it's going to be a callback. I think I think there. I think somebody mentioning eating ass there, too. That would be the place. I believe that was only about five places in the US where people yell about eating ass all the time, Bourbon Street, South Beach, Miami, six street in Austin, Broadway in Nashville. And I'm just going to go ahead and say Times Square. You might not think it, but Times Square, really. Yeah, the yellow badass there.
这简直太疯狂了,对吧?每个城市都有一个Channel 5,Channel 5 KTLA,Channel 5 Seattle,Como News。兄弟,Channel 5本身。我们拥有它。因为没有人想到过这么简单的事情,因为你会觉得必须明确指出我们拥有Channel 5.com Channel 5。兄弟,我们拥有它。太棒了。所以它和之前的事情有相同的精神。对。你在Channel 5旗下做的第一个项目是迈阿密海滩的春假吧?我想我见过那个,会有回味。我想我在那里听到别人也提到了吃屁股。那肯定就是那里了。我相信在美国只有大约五个地方人们总是大喊着要吃屁股,波旁街、迈阿密南海滩、奥斯汀的第六大街、纳什维尔的百老汇。我要直说时代广场也是。你可能不认为,但时代广场,真的。是的,屁股要在那里吃。

Times Square. I would say Beale Street in Memphis, but it's not it's not good. Oh, yeah. I mean, Beale Street is like that. The median age is too high on Beale Street for anyone to yell about ass. Oh, this is a fascinating portrait of America through that specific lens. So Miami Beach and then how would you describe your style of interviewing? Just now that you've collected so many. If you if you had a style, how would you describe this? I guess before, especially it used to be like deadpan. Now I would describe it as more directed, but still relatively affable, agreeable, deadpan interview style. Yeah, there's a like in the face of absurdity.

Yeah, it was just like there with a microphone that there's a there's a comic aspect to it. And that's intentional. Yeah, I used to look at the camera like Jim from the office back in the day. Yeah, I don't do that anymore. What about the editing? Like, how do you think about the editing? I still do most of it, but Susan helps a lot too. It's my associate. Yeah, the editing style, like I said, we pioneered this editing style that honestly was inspired a bit by like Vic Burger, but we took it to real life. Crash zooms kind of chopping up vocals a bit to add comedic timing where it didn't necessarily exist. Like you might add two seconds of awkward silence that are built with room tone, or you might make everything really fast by cutting silence and switching frames.

I mean, switching camera angles. But now we try to be pretty straightforward because we want to be taken more seriously. You know, yeah, sure. What's crash zoom by the way? A crash zoom is when the like it's artificial zoom that you might add in it. Adobe Premiere, where the camera zooms in on someone's face. Where the resolution is not there. The resolution is not there unless you have a like a black magic cinema camera, which you don't we don't we don't use those. The file size is too big. The file that's still in constraint. Yeah, and you also do voiceover storytelling. I think the first time I really did that was in the San Francisco streets video because there's so much content about San Francisco homelessness, tenderloin shoplifting, but there's not that much context in those videos about the history of San Francisco, the housing crisis, nimbyism, random zoning stuff that sounds boring, but has a major role in the current situation on the streets there as to why the tenderloin is neglected by police and by the city council and the other neighborhoods like Knob Hill and North Beach are so nice.
我的意思是,切换摄像机角度。但现在我们试图更加直截了当,因为我们希望更受重视。你知道的,是的,当然。对了,什么是冲击变焦呢?冲击变焦是一种人为的缩放效果,你可以在Adobe Premiere中添加,摄像机会缩放到某人的脸部。除非你使用像黑魔法电影摄像机这样的设备,否则就无法达到这样的分辨率。文件大小会很大,文件仍然受到限制。是的,你还配音讲述故事。我觉得我第一次真正做到这一点是在旧金山街头的视频中,因为有关旧金山流浪汉、特德洛因盗窃等内容太多了,但是这些视频中关于旧金山历史、住房危机、NIMBY主义、随意的分区规划等背景资料并不多,尽管这些听起来很无聊,但实际上在解释为什么特德洛因被警察和市政府忽视,而其他社区如诺布山和北海滩如此美好的街道上为什么会发生目前的情况中扮演着重要角色。

So I added that purposely to the San Francisco video and then also to the Philadelphia streets video to accentuate the reporting and add some historical analysis. What's your goal with some of these videos like the Philadelphia streets one? Is it to reveal the full spectrum of humanity or is it also to tell a story that's almost political state number one is always humanization. That's the primary goal is to take people in circumstances where they're often news items and remind the public that these are people with lives and concerns and dreams just like you. But secondly, we also want to start introducing more solution oriented journalism. So not just, oh, my God, I'm becoming aware of how horrible this is, but what can you actually do to help? And as you can see with the Vegas tunnels video, people are responding pretty positively to it. Like here's how you can maybe help a homeless neighbor help get them an ID, help them qualify for housing or get a job at the scrapyard. There's always ways to help, but so much of the YouTube world is oversaturated by just like endless videos of people suffering. And the comments are always like, wow, so horrible. What does that really do for somebody?

You've interviewed many rappers. Yes. And you keep me. There's a lot to it. Yeah. Can you explain this drill wrap situation? What is drill? A revolving situation. Drill began in 2010. Some people say it was Chief Keef in Chicago. I think it was King Louie in Chicago, but I think all of it was very influenced by Walk of Flock of Flame, who dropped an album called Flock of Valley in 2010. It was like hyper violent adrenaline boosting. Rap music made by people who were actually in the streets. So in the 90s, you had 50 cent, you had a rapper's rapping about like whatever gangster shit selling crack and beating people up, but they weren't actually doing it. Drill has a true crime component to where drill fans want to know that the person rapping about catching bodies does in fact kill people. So drill is pretty horrifying. It sounds great, but it started in Chicago. Then it spread to England and now it's bounced back to New York, just like the Bronx and Brooklyn specifically and spread from New York to the rest of the country. So now there's probably a drill rapper every 10 square miles. So these are as opposed to pretending to be a gangster. Killing people, you get some credibility by actually doing it. Yes, and the fans are typically not in the communities that are affected by poverty. So they're kind of like superheroes to white kids. It's dark and not just white kids, but just anyone who's not in the hood. It's not necessarily a race thing. There's white drill rappers to Slim Jesus was a big one. He's out of the picture now, but there's there's white drill rappers. Slim Jesus. You made a video on a O block. Yeah.
你采访过许多说唱歌手。是的,你一直留着我。这其中有很多内幕。是的。你能解释一下这个“drill wrap”的情况吗?什么是drill?一个不断变化的情况。Drill始于2010年。有人说是芝加哥的Chief Keef。我认为是芝加哥的King Louie,但我觉得所有这一切都受到了Walk of Flock of Flame的影响,他于2010年发行了一张名为Flock of Valley的专辑。这是由真正身在街头的人制作的高度暴力、充满肾上腺素的说唱音乐。所以在90年代,你有50分,有一些说唱歌手唱着像贩卖毒品、殴打人等黑社会的事情,但他们并没有真的做这些。Drill有一个真实犯罪的组成部分,drill的粉丝们想要知道那些唱着捅人的人是否真的杀过人。所以drill相当令人恐惧。听起来不错,但它起源于芝加哥。然后传播到英格兰,现在又反弹回到了纽约,在布朗克斯和布鲁克林特别浓厚,然后从纽约传播到整个国家。所以现在大概每10平方英里就有一个drill说唱歌手。所以这些人不是假装是黑帮分子,而是通过真的去杀人来获得可信度。是的,而且粉丝通常不是生活在贫困社区的人。所以对白人孩子们来说,他们有点像超级英雄。这是黑暗的,不只是白人孩子,而是任何不生活在贫民区的人。这不一定是一个种族问题。有白人drill说唱歌手,比如Slim Jesus是一个大人物。他现在已经退出了,但有白人drill说唱歌手。你拍了一段在O区的视频,是吗?是的。

What is what is O block? The place, the culture, the people you know, O block is a housing project in South Chicago in the Englewood area where Michelle Obama grew up. It's also where Chief Keef was born and raised. I don't know if he was born there, but he was raised there and he is the the forefather of modern drill music as we know it. So these are the projects where drill began. It's also the first place where you have that intersection of drill music and true crime because O block has a lot of rappers and then nearby is an area called St. Lawrence, a gay Tukaville, which has a lot of rappers as well. And so these two rival drill gangs basically have, you know, a lot of history and it connects to music at large.
O block是什么?这个地方,这种文化,你所认识的人,O block是位于南芝加哥Englewood地区的住房项目,米歇尔·奥巴马就是在那里长大的。这也是Chief Keef的出生地和成长地点。我不知道他是否在那里出生,但他是我们认识的现代drill音乐的奠基人。所以这些项目是drill音乐起源的地方。这也是第一个将drill音乐和真实犯罪结合起来的地方,因为O block有很多说唱歌手,附近还有一个叫St. Lawrence、又名Tukaville的区域,也有很多说唱歌手。这两支对立的drill团伙基本上有很多历史,使其牵扯到更广泛的音乐领域。

So you've interviewed people there. What was there any concern for your safety? No, I mean, I think that O block has calmed down a lot for one, a security so you can't even really get in and out. But two, I think that O block's trying to rebrand itself a lot because it could be because Lil Durk's avoiding a reco charge could be for a variety of reasons. I know you don't know exactly what that means, but Lil Durk or a reco jerk is from affiliated with O block and a lot of people have been murdered and retribution for killings that Lil Durk may or may not have influenced the ordering of. But anyways, a little dark documented the killings in the VR app music, probably.

OK, I know you don't know about drill and but Lil Durk was associated with a rapper named King Von and King Von perhaps paid for the assassination of a rapper named FPG Duck who got killed in Chicago's Gold Coast neighborhood. It's possible. The O block six or drill associated, not rappers, but just shooters. And they perhaps operate on King Von's behalf when it killed FPG Duck. King Von was Lil Durk's artist. King Von's now dead.
好的,我知道你可能不了解与芝加哥的乐队和勇士(drill)有关的信息,但是Lil Durk曾与一位名叫King Von的说唱歌手有关联,而King Von可能曾为谋杀一位叫做FPG Duck的说唱歌手付款,而后者就是在芝加哥金海岸(Gold Coast)社区被谋杀的。这种可能性是存在的。O区六或者与勇士有关的人不一定是说唱歌手,而可能只是射手。他们可能是替King Von行事时击毙了FPG Duck。King Von是Lil Durk的艺人。现在King Von已经去世。

So there's definitely a concern that some of the fed charges will fall on dirt. Not sure if that's true, but it's rumors in the hip hop community. So O block right now and when I film the video is trying to go through a major imagery have, if you go on any Instagram of anyone in O block, they've all converted to Islam and so they post pictures of themselves praying in the morning and have captions like put the guns down. Let's pray.

So I think when I went there, they saw it as a good opportunity to do a positive rebrand and so I interviewed a rapper named Boss Top who was there all the way back in 2011 when Chief Keef was coming up and so he basically ensured my safe protection. But he didn't even need to. They're all very friendly and they know exactly what's up with YouTube stuff. I like how 2011 is the old days like the ancient. Oh, yeah, the founding fathers. I was in eighth grade. Oh, man, time flies when you're having fun. It sure does.
所以我想,当我去那里时,他们把这看作是一个积极重新塑造的好机会,所以我采访了一位名叫Boss Top的说唱歌手,他在2011年时就在那里,当时Chief Keef正在崛起。他基本上确保了我的安全保护。但实际上他根本不需要这样做。他们都很友好,对YouTube的事情了如指掌。我喜欢2011年被称为古老的时代,就像是古代一样。哦,是的,开国之父们。我那时是八年级。哦,时间过得真快,当你开心时。是的,确实如此。

Little dark. Where's a little dark now? Atlanta. So you left Chicago, not safe. Yeah, I mean, every rep rest to leave their hometown. That's what I did. It's a journey. Seattle would have taken me out, bro. How's your I mean, you do interview a lot of people. I mean, that's like a top comment, but it speaks to the reality of the fact that you always find somebody rapping or you. Yeah, you create the space for people to rap. What's that about? I don't know, man. They're usually really good. You think so? I appreciate it. Well, hell yeah, man. I mean, rappers in their own way since I touched a microphone. Rappers have gravitated toward me. I think there's something happening. You're a rapper whisperer. I think there's something happening on a deeper cosmic spiritual level that lets the mind of rappers know that like they have a safe place in front of our camera crew.

You have an interview with Kurt Mac. I do. For a secret Mac. He's a girl right now. Oh, he is. Yeah. Is that a hashtag? Yeah, for sure. What that's an intense interview. People should go watch it. People should go watch your all your interviews. But that one is pretty intense. Thanks. I was a little afraid for your life. Oh, Kurt Mac's the safest guy in the world. Is a sweetheart. Oh, definitely do. Yeah, but it's fun. I feel like more safe around Kurt Mac than I do on any given pedestrian. Yeah, he was loud and flavorful. Yeah, I should say.
你要接受Kurt Mac的采访。是的,是为了一个秘密的Mac。他现在是个女孩对吧。哦,是的。是个话题标签吗?是的,当然。那个采访很激烈。人们应该去看。人们应该去看你所有的采访。但那个真的很激烈。谢谢。我有点担心你的生命安全。哦,Kurt Mac是世界上最安全的人。是个好心人。是的,肯定是。是的,但很有趣。我觉得在Kurt Mac身边比在任何行人身边都更安全。是的,他很吵闹而且富有风味。是的,我想说的就是这样。

So who's he? What's his story? Well, his name's Trevor. He grew up in Ontario, California in the inland empire. Moved to Texas with his mom after his dad left. His mom started starting to start dating a cop from Houston named Mr. Gary. His mom found Mr. Gary getting, you know, an only penetrated by a co-worker. And so she booked. Crit Mac, a one way Greyhound ticket to LA where he joined the Crips. That's a good story. You know, it's true. You've got the right to Mr. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah, I'm just saying that, you know, he's a classic case of somebody without a father figure who found camaraderie and, you know, sense of belonging and purpose in a street gang, which in LA is like a rule of law in most of the city.

Oh, we're I forget what context earlier talking about martial arts and fighting and he's got to work on his punching form. All right. Yeah, I think so. He gets into a lot of fights in jail, though. And from what I've heard, he wins like he does half of them. So it's good. All right. What do you go to jail for now? Firearm possession was a probation violation. Oh, it's too bad. All right. What's so Philly? You went to the border. Occupy Seattle protests. You went to Ukraine. Yeah. What are some interesting things that stand out to you for memory? Just as I asked the question, some interesting. I mean, I was in jail at the border for a while. That was horrible. What was that like? Was that your first time? Yeah. Well, you know, I didn't know that I couldn't hop my own border as an American. I'm thinking this is my country. I can get in any way that I want wrong. You can only enter the US through an official board of entry, which I learned the hard way because I got arrested by border patrol and held as a detainee at a migrant center for a few days.

What was the that like horrible, which aspect? I mean, well, for what? Like, I don't know. It was just to be in a place like that. And I probably sound like such a wimp right now because I know someone's watching this who's done some hard time. But we thought we were going to do at least six months in jail because the guards freaked us out and we're like, you're being charged with a federal crime. You know what you boys did is serious. We're waiting on word from San Antonio about whether or not we're going to extradite you. So we're just sitting in these cells alone, most of the time in solitary with no pillows, just to smoke pillows, no pillows, no mat. Then just a space blanket and I was sleeping on my shoes, stinking up the place. It was no good. You mentioned the UFO convention. Yeah. What have you learned from those guys? The ophologists. I really want to know what you think about that. That's the one question that I want to reverse on you because you've talked to so many people. Do you think that aliens have actually visited Earth? Yeah. When? When exact dates? I do. I think there's alien civilizations everywhere. I talked to a lot of people that have doubts about it. I just think I even suspect there's an intelligent alien civilization in our galaxy. And I just can't imagine them not having visited us. So I lean on that. What that actually looks like, I don't know. The stuff we're seeing in terms of UFO sightings, I think that's much more likely to the degree it's real, it's much more likely government projects. So military, Lockheed Martin, this kind of stuff.

So you think that they have knowledge of it? Yeah. Yeah. One thing I think about with aliens is scale. So we have this idea that an alien would be a gray alien or almost human would look alike that would visit us in human form, arms, legs, head. But who's to say that they're not able to shrink down to microscopic size, but the same neural capacity? Yeah, or just have a very difficult to perceive form. But I mean, they would go small, not big. No, I think that would take a human-led like form just to be able to communicate with humans. I think the big challenge with aliens is to be able to find a common language. So if you come to another planet and you suspect that there's some kind of complexity going on, but it looks nothing like humans, you have to find a common language. And I think aliens would try to take physical form that's similar. Yeah. That I was dumb humans would understand. Language is really interesting too. I have this series that I'm going to announce for the first time on here, but I'm really interested in endangered languages in the US. There's like 150 languages in the US with less than a thousand speakers. Wow. And I want to like help spearhead efforts to preserve some of these. For example, Hawaiian sign language, 15 of those people left. Holy shit. Because when Hawaii got annexed, the ASL community tried to make it so the deaf native Hawaiians wouldn't be able to speak their native sign language. And so they would do it under the desks at like schools for the deaf and blind. And they would get like their mouth, watch that, wash that with soap and stuff if they so much as did the Hawaiian hand signs. Also the Gullah Gucci language in the South Carolina Sea Islands, Hilton Head Island and stuff. That's like a, it's almost a Creole language. It's been in the US for hundreds of years, existing in isolation. That's being threatened by golf course developments. I don't know how into language you are, but I've been getting super nerded out about it.

Actually, I'm interviewing somebody tomorrow who's an expert in human language. He's from MIT studying the syntax of a lot of languages, including in the Amazon jungle, the the peoples that live in the Amazon jungle region. Yeah, it's fascinating. Human language is fascinating. And also the barriers that creates and also how the games are played to what you're speaking by governments. This is part of the story of Russian Ukraine is as a battle over language. The Ukrainian language is a symbol of independence, which is why they they were trying to make it the primary language of the nation. And so sometimes the language represents the culture and the peoples. Yeah, it's like intricately tied to the culture of the people. I've been trying to learn never, which language do you know? Spanish and English. Spanish. Well, see. I don't know Spanish that well. So that passes me. Yeah, your fluid. Yes. Oh, it doesn't. Oh, that was good. Yeah. That was real Cancun spring break. Well, I actually speak fluent Spanish, according to Spotify, because there's a every episode translated over dub by AI in Spanish. Oh, my God. Yeah, there's a very Spanish robot. As a Spanish robot, it's really I sound like incredibly intelligent, intellectual and Spanish. They make it. Freedman. Exactly. From everything you've done, all the people you've seen, do you think most people are good underneath it all? Yeah. So the ones that do all the extreme should OK, I'll put it like this. Most people think they're doing the best thing for the world. I don't think anyone except for maybe a small fraction of sociopaths wakes up every day and says, I'm going to fuck somebody's life up today. I think the far majority of people are fighting for what they think is right and do want to see America succeed and want us to be in a happy place where no one is subjugated. I just think people have drastically different ideas of what means will get us there. And unfortunately, that's leading to a lot of misunderstandings between cultures. And yeah, I think that most people are good. I've been through some things that leads me to believe that a lot of people though are primarily motivated by self-interest and that in a fight or flight situation, most people will choose flight.

So I don't know if people are courageous as a whole, but I think generally good. But the energy to stand up for what's right, not sure about that. They have the capacity though to do good. I think human beings are inherently selfish as well. But I don't think that selfish is inherently bad. I think humans are primarily motivated by self-interest. But generally have positive intentions. I do hope more humans rise to the occasion and have courage, courage of their convictions, courage to have integrity. But yeah, I think that most people are good and they want to do good and they have the capacity to do a lot of good. That's why I have hope for this whole thing. We got to go on.

How do you heal the misunderstandings between people you think listening? It's the only option we have. No forced education, no forced meetings or mediations between political opponents. Just listen to more people and really listen. Try to get rid of whatever preconceived notions you might have about how you should feel about someone you are supposed to disagree with and just keep your ears and your heart open to people that you don't know and your life will change. Keep your heart open. A lot of people are scared to listen.
你如何来消除你认为是由于听不同而产生的误解? 听取对方的意见是我们唯一的选择。没有强迫教育,没有强迫让政治对手开会或调解。只需要更多地倾听别人,并且真正倾听。试着摒弃你对于那些与你不同意见的人可能持有的任何成见,只要让自己的耳朵和心灵敞开,去倾听那些你不了解的人,你的生活会发生改变。保持开放的心态。很多人因为害怕而选择不倾听。

Well, Andrew, I'm a big fan and thank you for being one of the best listeners in the world and showing the full spectrum of humanity to us so we can listen as well and learn and just thank you for doing everything you're doing. Hey, man, thanks so much for having me on. You're a great man. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Andrew Kalkin. Support this podcast. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from Hunter S. Thompson. The edge. There is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.