Tesla’s Competition
发布时间 2023-04-04 03:58:00 来源
摘要
Tesla hit all time records for production and deliveries but left Wall Street unsatisfied. (00:21) Deidre Woollard and Asit Sharma discuss: - Rivian’s profitability problem. - How Tesla is trying to “push competitors into a bad spot.” - Strategy shifts at Netflix. - If streamers have pricing power. (13:11) Sierra Baldwin catches up with financial hype woman, Berna Anat, about her upcoming book, “Money Out Loud: All the Financial Stuff No One Taught Us.” Companies discussed: TSLA, RIVN, NFLX, DIS Host: Deidre Woollard Guests: Asit Sharma, Sierra Baldwin, Berna Anat Producer: Ricky Mulvey Engineers: Dan Boyd, Heather Horton
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中英文字稿 
Tesla's delivery number is underwhelmed and Netflix changes its strategy. I'm Deidre Wallard and this is Motley Fool Money.
特斯拉的交付数量令人失望，而Netflix改变了其策略。我是迪德拉·沃拉德，这是《摇滚富豪财经》节目。
Welcome to Motley Fool Money. I'm Deidre Wallard sitting in for Chris Hill and I'm joined by a Motley Fool endless asset Sharma.
欢迎来到 Motley Fool Money。我是代替 Chris Hill 的 Deidre Wallard ，我和 Motley Fool 的无尽资产 Sharma 一起来了。
How are you doing today?
今天你怎么样？
Well, let's talk about Tesla numbers. So Tesla delivered its delivery numbers for the first quarter, produced over 440,000 vehicles, 4% from the previous quarter, 36% year-to-year. That sounds pretty good but it missed Wall Street expectations. Is that a cause for concern?
好的，让我们来谈谈特斯拉的数字。特斯拉公布了第一季度的交付数量，生产了超过44万辆汽车，较上一季度增长4%，与去年同期相比增长了36%。听起来很不错，但它没有达到华尔街的预期。这是一个令人担忧的原因吗？
If you're a long-term investor in Tesla, it shouldn't be a cause for concern simply because a few thousand deliveries that are off of Wall Street consensus estimates isn't going to move the needle on the bigger goal. That is for Tesla to try to continue to grow its production at a 50% annual clip in the near term, which it's pretty close to doing. As you point out, this is a sequential increase from the last quarter. To me, these numbers were finite.
如果您是特斯拉的长期投资者，几千辆的交付量低于华尔街预期不应该成为一个令人担忧的原因，因为这不会对更大的目标有任何影响。特斯拉的目标是在短期内继续以50%的年增长率增加产量，而目前它已经接近实现这个目标。正如您所指出的，这是与上一个季度相比的连续增长。对我来说，这些数字是有限的。
I should point out both production and deliveries were all-time records this quarter.
我应该指出，本季度的生产和交付都创下了历史记录。
Interesting. We also got numbers from Rivian and obviously much, much smaller. They delivered 8,145 vehicles. They were expected to deliver around 7,000. Obviously very small but at some point are they going to be strong competition for Tesla and do they compete at the same level?
有趣。我们还从 Rivian 获得了数字，显然远远比 Tesla 小得多。他们交付了 8,145 辆车。预计他们会交付大约 7,000 辆车。明显是非常小的，但他们是否在某个时候会成为 Tesla 的强劲竞争对手，并在同一水平上竞争呢？
Yeah, Rivian is so interesting because it's also starting as Tesla did with a higher end product. Its trucks are extremely popular in the market for such a small manufacturer. They have this growth path which is really nice to watch. On the other hand, they're so far from being profitable. This company needs scale and it needs automotive gross margin, positive automotive gross margin to be a formidable competitor to Tesla.
是的，Rivian很有趣，因为它也像特斯拉一样从高端产品开始。尽管是小型制造商，但他们的卡车在市场上非常受欢迎。他们的增长路径非常惊人。另一方面，他们远未实现盈利。为了成为特斯拉的强大竞争对手，这家公司需要规模和积极的汽车毛利率。
Gross profit for last year was negative $3.1 billion and the net loss that Rivian produced was $6.8 billion. This is one thing that tells investors, Rivian could be a formidable competitor if they can manage to grow. To grow, they're going to need capital down the road. The balance sheet is fine for now, we're flush with cash with their IPO but this type of gross profit loss, it burns cash. You'll see them going back to the markets in a very short period to try to keep scaling. Like Tesla, they have this enormous compounded annual growth rate of production trying to double this year total production.
去年的毛利润为负31亿美元，Rivian制造的净亏损为68亿美元。这说明Rivian如果能够管理好自己的增长，就能成为一个强大的竞争对手。要实现增长，他们将需要未来的资金支持。目前我们的资产负债表还算不错，并且通过他们的IPO我们拥有了充裕的现金，但这种毛利润的损失会消耗现金。你会看到他们在很短的时间内回到市场上，试图继续扩张。像特斯拉一样，他们拥有这种惊人的年复合生产增长率，试图将今年的总生产翻倍。
I think there were just under 25,000 vehicles last year shooting for 50,000 in 2023. At that type of rate, there's a shot of them being among a number of automakers that together will pose the competitive threat. That's really where I see this affecting Tesla's prowess in the future. So many different manufacturers that are starting to reach scale whether they're big legacy automakers or smaller upstart competitors like Rivian.
我觉得去年大概有不到25,000辆车，计划到2023年达到50,000辆。按照这样的速度，他们有可能和其他汽车制造商一起构成竞争威胁。这将会严重影响特斯拉未来的实力。很多制造商正在达到规模，无论是大型传统汽车制造商还是小型创业竞争对手，比如Rivian。
Yeah, so there's a lot of competition like you mentioned. One of the critics I've heard about Tesla is they haven't changed their design style in a while. Most of the Tesla production that they announced, still the Model 3 and Model Y, it is starting to move change that vehicle mix a bit. But as it brings on more capacity, new factories, does it have to change that vehicle mix and does it eventually have to start doing new redesigns?
嗯，就像你说的，竞争非常激烈。我听过关于特斯拉的一个批评，就是他们在设计风格上有一段时间没有进行改变了。他们宣布的大多数特斯拉车型仍然是 Model 3 和 Model Y，它们开始逐渐改变车型组合。但随着特斯拉引入更多产能和新工厂，它是否必须改变车型组合，是否最终必须开始进行新的重新设计呢？
Ultimately, Tesla will have to evolve with the market because new companies that are coming into the EV market, they'll each have their own take on what the regional appetite is. For example, there's a Vietnamese car manufacturer that's going to be producing EV vehicles in my backyard here in Raleigh, North Carolina. They will have a completely different form factor than Ford's approach, than Tesla's approach. This puts the pressure on Tesla to innovate what I call the form factors of its cars to borrow a phrase from the tech world.
最终，特斯拉必须随着市场的变化而发展，因为新的公司加入电动汽车市场，它们每个人对区域市场有自己的看法。例如，有一家越南汽车制造商将在我所在的北卡罗莱纳的后院生产电动汽车。他们的形态完全不同于福特和特斯拉的方法。这给特斯拉带来了压力，他们必须创新汽车形态，用一句话从科技领域借鉴来说。
But something else it's interesting, you mentioned this regional mix of vehicle builds, which Tesla also called out in its press release on its production. That's something interesting too for shareholders to watch. Tesla used to be into this concept of batching vehicles together, late in their production cycle every quarter, and then shipping them to a certain destination. You're building in one place, you're getting all the vehicles ready, and then you're sending them to another place. What they're trying to do is to build throughout the quarter on a more regional basis because they were hitting a lot of logistical supply chain issues at the end of each quarter.
但还有另一个有趣的事情，你提到了这种地区车辆制造的混合方式，特斯拉在其生产公告中也提到了这一点。这对股东来说也是一个有趣的事情需要关注。特斯拉曾经推崇过批量生产汽车，每个季度晚期将它们批量出口到某个目的地。您在一个地方建造汽车，准备好所有的车辆，然后将它们送到另一个地方。他们尝试的是在每个季度内更多地基于地区进行生产，因为他们在每个季度末面对很多物流供应链问题。
They keep referring to this idea of the regional build. Now we've got gigafactories in the US, in Europe, in China. There's a new factory that's going to come online in Mexico. As Tesla improves its ability to decrease the number of cars in transit at the end of each quarter, that's going to be positive for their margin and I think give them a little bit of room to delay those inevitable form factor changes.
他们不断提到地区建设的这个概念。现在我们在美国、欧洲和中国都有千兆工厂。在墨西哥将要上线一座新工厂。随着特斯拉改善了在每个季度末运输汽车的能力，这将对他们的利润产生积极影响，并为延迟那些不可避免的外形变化提供了一些余地。
It's telling a last year the story was really about Tesla price cuts, and now it looks like they might be building inventory. You talked before about competition. Obviously, margins might have to decrease. What does that lower price tag really mean? I think it means that Tesla is in a very aggressive way trying to push all of its current and future adversaries into a suboptimal position.
这个新闻说的是去年实际上特斯拉降价的事情，现在看起来他们可能正在准备建立库存。你之前谈到过竞争，很明显，利润可能会减少。那么这个更低的价格意味着什么呢？我认为这意味着特斯拉正在极具侵略性地推动所有当前和未来的竞争对手进入次优势。
Tesla has already reached really great profit in cash flow as an automobile manufacturer. It's a company that's obsessed with improving its technology, with improving the efficiency of its manufacturing. It makes some of the largest casts for vehicles in the world. There are a few manufacturers in the world that have progressed. It's such a rate of innovation as Tesla has.
特斯拉作为一家汽车制造商，在现金流方面已经取得了非常可观的利润。这是一家痴迷于改进技术，提高生产效率的公司。他们制造了世界上一些最大的车身铸件。在全球范围内，只有很少有一些制造商能够达到特斯拉这样的创新速度。
If you look across industries, it's a really interesting study from just a manufacturing output basis. They take all this margin and they're giving it up. They're giving some of this up because they already know if they reach their scale where they want to go, they've got a lot of volume, so they'll make money on volume versus profit with a high profit margin.
如果你跨足各行各业，就会从单纯的制造产出基础角度看出来非常有趣的研究。他们拿走了所有的利润，并放弃了其中一部分，这是因为他们已经知道，如果他们达到了他们想要的规模，他们就有了很大的产量，这样他们就可以通过大量销售获得利润，而不是通过高利润率获利。
They're giving up some of that right now, just as other automakers are trying to crack into the market. It forces competitors like BYD and China to now cut prices. It forces competitors like Ford or GM to rethink how they're going to sell their cars as they're building out their factories in the US. I see this more and more as an aggressive burst volley in this, what's going to be a very long-term battle and it's setting the whole industry into rethinking what their margins are going to look like.
他们正在放弃一些权利，就像其他汽车制造商正在努力进入市场一样。这迫使像比亚迪和中国这样的竞争对手现在削减价格。这迫使像福特或通用这样的竞争对手重新考虑他们如何在美国建造工厂时销售他们的汽车。我越来越认为这是一场激烈的爆发战，将是一场非常长期的战争，这正在使整个行业重新考虑他们的利润率会是什么样子。
Tesla can give up the margin now and still make good money. It'll be interesting to see what they report when they have their earnings in a couple of weeks. True, true, Deed. It's because earnings will look slimmer on the profit side, but there is an equation for them long-term.
特斯拉现在可以放弃一些利润，仍然能赚到好钱。等他们几周后发布财报的时候，看看他们会报告什么也很有意思。没错，没错，Deed。因为从盈利方面来看，收益会显得更薄，但对于他们的长期发展来说，这是一个方程式。
Well, let's talk a little bit about Netflix. I don't know about you, but I spent some of my weekend streaming content. It's what we all do now. But there seems to be maybe a little bit of a shift in the streaming universe. Disney, they announce layoffs, they're slowing their content. Netflix has backed out of some movies. Why is Netflix changing at this point?
嗯，让我们谈一谈Netflix。我不知道你们怎么想，但我在周末花时间流媒体内容。这是我们现在所做的。但是，在流媒体领域似乎出现了一些转变。迪士尼宣布了裁员，减缓了内容更新速度。Netflix撤回了一些电影。为什么Netflix在这个时候要改变呢？
I think Netflix is internally looking at the same things that Disney is. Disney has the fresh eyes of Bob Eiger, who came back on board as CEO and said, look, the streaming stuff is great, guys, but we have to make a profit. There is a lot of turnover in the subscription business these days with many choices. Here you have companies that are seeing that they're putting in the same amount or more amounts into content production. On the top, the side that brings in customers, it's harder and harder to keep loyal customers.
我觉得Netflix内部正在关注迪士尼所关注的事情。迪士尼有新CEO鲍勃·艾格回归，他说："Streaming平台很好，但我们必须盈利"。现在订阅行业变化很大，选择很多，这让许多公司开始意识到他们必须投入相同或更多的资金来制作内容。至于吸引顾客的一面，也就是难以保持忠诚用户的一面，这方面越来越难做到了。
There's part of this rationalization that's going on through the industry, which says, look, let's maximize quality over quantity. This is actually quoting Bob Eiger. He paired down the production schedule. As you mentioned, that Disney is going to have this year. They're going to put out. Netflix is seeing the same thing.
行业内部出现了一种理性化趋势，即注重质量而非数量。这实际上是引用了鲍勃·艾格的话。他缩减了迪士尼今年要推出的制作时间表。正如你提到的那样，迪士尼今年要推出的节目数量会很少。Netflix 也面临着同样的情况。
They were an early innovator, spent tremendously billions on content to try to have that first-mover advantage, to get into localized markets, to have just an amazing amount of shows and give you an amazing amount of choice. What happens now, all of a sudden, you can't keep raising prices because other entrants are there. Most of your business still follows the pre-do principle. That a few bits of content drive like the bulk of new additions in a quarter or drive the bulk of viewing hours.
他们是一个早期的创新者，投入了数十亿美元在内容上，试图获得第一先行者的优势，进入本地化市场，拥有惊人的数量的节目并给你惊人的选择。现在发生了什么，突然间你不能不停地提高价格，因为其他竞争者已经出现。你的大部分业务仍然遵循先前的原则。也就是说，一些内容驱动了大部分新添加的内容或观看时长。
I know that this is as much content as they have. It's still each quarter, each month, a few big shows that are pulling the weight. I think they're just looking at now that Netflix is more profitable than they were in past years of trying to maintain profitability and just be a more rational business, especially with the competition that keeps coming in the door and this roundtable fight for subscribers every month.
我知道这是他们所拥有的所有内容。每季度、每个月，都是几个大型节目在支撑整个业务。我认为他们现在只是想让Netflix比以往更有利可图，尽力维持盈利并成为更理智的企业，特别是面对一直在进门的激烈竞争和每个月争夺订阅用户的圆桌较量。
I think that's right. They had a couple of two high-profile execs leave last week. One of them, Lisa Nishimura. She'd been there since the DVD days and also Indyfilm, VPE and Brick. Netflix, they wanted to win awards. They've won awards now and now it seems like maybe there's a shift away from that strategy as they look to just more things to get people in the door.
我认为这是正确的。上周有两位高管离开了，其中一个是莉莎·西鲁拉。她从DVD时代开始就在那里工作，还担任过Indyfilm、VPE和Brick的职务。Netflix曾经想赢得奖项。他们现在已经赢得了奖项，现在似乎有一种转变，从那个策略中转向了更多的吸引人们进门的事情。
Do awards still matter? I think they do, Deedra, but maybe not as much as they used to. Back in the day when you and I were following the Netflix story in early years, it was like they were trying to pull people out of theaters. Let's go after that theatrical market with great content. Let's throw documentaries, let's throw Indy Films to get people from the Art House films at home on a Friday night and watch an Indy film.
奖项还有影响力吗？我认为还是有，德德拉，但可能没有过去那么重要了。在早期追随 Netflix 故事的时候，他们似乎在试图从电影院中吸引观众。让我们用出色的内容打击那些喜欢文艺片在周五晚上呆在家中的人。让我们推崇纪录片和独立电影。
As the whole industry, the streaming industry has grown, we've sort of taken that offer and COVID helped a lot with that. Of course, COVID was a huge kneecap for theaters and some of them are coming back. I was driving to pass a theater that had closed just the other day in my hometown and they're reopening. They're going to reopen this spring when I was so excited, but I really haven't been in theaters that much in several years.
流媒体行业和整个行业一起成长，我们也顺势而为，COVID对此起到了很大的帮助。当然，COVID对电影院来说是一个巨大的挫折，但有些电影院正在重新开业。我前几天开车经过我的家乡一家关门的电影院，他们正在重新开业。他们计划在今年春季重新开放，我非常兴奋，但是我已经好几年没有去过电影院了。
I think part of this is, again, it could be like a cut-throat rationalization on the part of Madrid and we're going to cut costs. We don't really need to be so focused on pulling people out of theaters and we still want to compete. We want to win awards at the end of the year because that's great for our brand and of course, I want to pull in new subscribers. If we're pulling in costs, that's one place. We do need to spend as much on these really esoteric documentaries or supporting the Indy Filmmaking. Maybe not. Let's look at that pre-do principle. We could spend less money, try to get a few big hits.
我认为这其中一部分可能是马德里方面的一种残酷的理性化，他们想要削减成本。我们不需要如此专注于让人们离开电影院，我们仍然想要竞争。我们希望在今年年底赢得奖项，因为那对我们的品牌非常有利，当然，我也想吸引新的订阅者。如果我们正在削减成本，那就可以从这里开始。我们确实需要在这些十分专业和不易理解的纪录片或独立电影制片方面花费的不那么多。也许不是。让我们看看前面所提到的原则。我们可以少花一些钱，试图获得几个大的成功作品。
Remember, Netflix, this is their bread and butter. It's taking analytics of what you watched, Diedra and what I watched, yes. I was watching some streaming content on Netflix this weekend and figuring out, what great show can we make out of this next year, seeing these intersecting or call them Venn diagrams of interest that our viewers have? What can we take out of this, making new production? That's a lot cheaper than having a really, really wide variety of offerings. Thanks for the chat today. Thanks so much.
记住，Netflix 的生命线就在这里。它分析了你看的、Diedra看的，然后我又看了一些流媒体内容，在周末时想着我们明年可以从这些交错的、或者叫做利益维恩图的中得出什么好的节目。我们能够从中提炼出什么，制作出新的作品？这比提供非常、非常广泛的节目要便宜得多。今天的聊天非常感谢。非常感谢。
You might not have heard of frugal flexing, but you probably seen it. Berna Anad is a financial hype woman and the author of the upcoming book Money Out Loud. Motley Fools, Sierra Baldwin caught up with Anad to discuss her book and stretch for talking money with your family.
也许你还没有听说过“节俭致富”的概念，但很可能你已经见过它了。Berna Anad 是一位财务激励者，也是即将出版的书《Money Out Loud》的作者。Motley Fools 的 Sierra Baldwin 采访了 Anad，讨论了她的书以及如何与家人聊钱时要注意的事项。
When it comes to how we feel about money in the very first chapter of your book and one of the first things that you ask readers to do before they get to any of the fun stuff, like budgeting and investing, is to unpack their childhood money memories. You talk about how most of us form some of our earliest money habits through emotional context and our everyday experiences in our childhood lives.
在你的书的第一章中，说到我们对钱的感受时，你让读者在进入任何有趣的事情之前，比如预算和投资，先拆解他们的童年记忆。你谈到了大多数人通过情感背景和童年生活中的日常经历来形成我们最早的一些金钱习惯。
Can you share an example of an early childhood money memory that shaped your relationship with money later in life?
你能分享一个儿时与金钱相关的记忆，它对你日后的金钱关系产生了影响吗？
Yes, big time. It's fun to talk through this very first chapter because it really is one of my favorite things about money in general. It's one of the things that people are the most like, people are like, okay, give me your best tips. I'm like, okay, let's dig into your trauma and they're like, no, thank you. Who wants this?
是的，非常有必要啊。在讨论关于金钱的话题中，我非常享受讲解这个非常基本的章节，因为它涉及到了我对金钱的最爱。一般人对待这个话题都有一些共性，他们会说：“好的，给我你最好的建议吧。”然后我会回答：“好的，我们现在就从你遇到的困难开始说起吧！”而他们则会回答：“谢谢，我不太需要。” 看来不是所有人都需要这些啊。
But of course, if you're doing it responsibly, what I'm asking you to do is just take a look like you said, back at your earliest money memories and start to try to make connections as to how that translates into your money habits now as an adult or a quote unquote adult. For folks like myself, a lot of us first gen child of immigrants folks, our earliest money memories have nothing to do with actual like money lessons or things that people taught us or like explicit, like I'm showing you how to do this.
当然，如果您负责任地做到这一点，我所要求的只是您回顾一下最初的金钱记忆，并开始尝试建立联系，了解它如何转化为您现在成年或所谓的成年人的金钱习惯。对于像我这样的人，许多都是移民家庭的第一代子女，我们最早的金钱记忆与实际的金钱课程、人们教我们的事情或明确的“我向您展示如何做到这一点”之类的事情无关。
Like you said, we are learning these things through the context of often very emotionally like, oh, experiences that have to do with money. One of my earliest money memories, I was around maybe 14, 15 when I realized that my parents were getting caught up in what I understood later to be the giant housing crisis of the of the odds, the 2000 odds.
就像你说的那样，我们正在通过与金钱有关的情感体验的背景下学习这些事情。我的一个早期金钱记忆是我大约14、15岁时意识到我的父母被卷入了后来我理解为2000年代的巨大住房危机中。
My parents, I learned much, much later and I learned this through watching the big short. I didn't learn this by talking to them. I learned this to watching this move and being like, is that, is that what happened to my parents, they got caught up in the subprime mortgage mess and the way that that manifested in our family was first, there was all this excitement about like, oh my gosh, we're gonna buy this house.
我父母遇上次贷危机的事情，我是后来才知道的。我是通过看《大空头》才知道的，而不是通过跟他们聊天。通过观看这部电影，我开始想，是不是正是这个原因导致了我父母遇到次贷危机，而我们家庭的表现就是，一开始有很多兴奋，因为我们要买这个房子。
It's so exciting. Suddenly, we feel like rocketed into these upper echelons of the American dream because we own this brand new beautiful house. And then slowly I started to see things tick away that didn't seem as positive. I remember we would go to the house less. I remember literally that like classic scene of going into the kitchen and seeing my parents still spread all over the table, but they're talking about money in Tagalog in the Filipino language.
真是太令人兴奋了。突然间，我们感觉自己像是被送进美国梦的顶尖阶层，因为我们拥有了这栋全新漂亮的房子。然后慢慢地，我开始看到一些不那么积极的东西。我记得我们去房子的次数越来越少。我记得那场景，就像经典的场景一样，我走进厨房，看到我的父母还散坐在桌子周围，但他们在用菲律宾语Tagalog谈论钱的事情。
And so we're not supposed to not really understand as my family and my brothers and I didn't grow up learning Tagalog. But the way that money moves in family, especially money, tension, you could feel that tension. You don't need to be told that there's financial tension happening. You don't need that to be translated. It's very much contextual.
所以，我们不应该真的不理解，因为我和我的家人以及我的兄弟并没有在成长过程中学习塔加洛语。但是家庭中金钱的流动方式，特别是与金钱有关的紧张情绪，你可以感受到这种紧张。你不需要被告知正在发生财务紧张局势。你不需要翻译这个。这非常有语境。
You could feel it in the air. I could feel the tension in my family. I could feel the shame with which my family stopped talking so much about the new house, with other people. My mom being a big Facebooker stopped posting so much about the braggie, braggie things that she usually did. And then I would see my, we stopped going to the house. The house was something that we didn't talk about anymore and it was a very clear contextually like we don't talk about that house anymore.
你可以感受到空气中的气氛。我能感受到家里的紧张氛围。我能感觉到我们家停止和其他人谈论新房子时的羞耻感。我妈妈平时非常活跃在Facebook上，但现在贴出来的炫耀照片少了很多。然后我发现我们不再去那个新房子了。我们不再谈论那个房子，明显表示我们不想提起那个话题了。
I heard the word bankruptcy mentioned randomly between my parents, but never directly to us. And then I now look back and see that my parents really went through a sort of a depressive episode after that, both of them. And again, this was all like me and my brothers were supposed to sort of turn the other way, keep our heads in our extracurriculars, keep our heads in our academics. And we all just sort of swept that under the rug. And I look back at that now and what it taught me was, I mean, to sort of underline the lesson that a lot of us learned about money, which is we don't talk about it, especially when it goes bad. We don't talk about the shame. We don't talk about the mistakes. We don't talk about or maybe even examine what got us to those things that were both in and out of our control.
我听到我父母随意提到了破产这个词，但从未直接告诉我们。然后现在回想起来，我看到我的父母真的经历了一种抑郁的情绪，这种情绪影响了他们俩。再次地，这一切都如同我们兄弟姐妹应该把头扭向另一边，把精力放在课外活动，放在学业上。我们所有人都把这个问题掩盖了。现在我回顾这一切，学到的教训是，很多人都学到了金钱方面的东西，也就是我们不谈论它，特别是当它变糟糕的时候。我们不谈论羞愧，不谈论错误。我们不谈论，或者甚至不去审视是什么使我们处于那些既在我们控制范围内，又在我们控制范围外的情况。
Money is not to be talked about. Money is to be hidden away. Our mistakes are definitely to be hidden under the rug. And also, money is not to be discussed in a positive or a negative way with each other at all. And it really added up to a lot of the shame and the silence and the ignorance that I felt about money into my adult life. And also, low key these days, my hesitance to invest in homes and the house. There's the little part of me that's like, buy a house, that sounds nuts. But knowing that these are things that I learned through context, I learned them, I learned them through emotional lowercase T-trauma.
钱不应该被谈论。钱应该隐藏起来。我们的错误绝对不能被公开。并且，我们彼此之间不能以任何正面或负面的方式讨论钱。这真的增加了我成年后对钱的羞耻、沉默和无知。同时，近来，我的犹豫不决让我不敢在房屋方面投资。内心其实希望能买个房子，但另一部分却认为这听起来很疯狂。只是知道这些都是从生活环境中学来的，我是通过情感上小写的创伤学到的。
And they might not necessarily be true. And that's what we try to unpack in that first chapter. You also share some stories about how your parents would ping pong between being frugal and also spending money to impress others. Can you explain your frugal flex theory and talk a little bit about how that led to emotionally conflicting spending habits for you later in life as well?
他们可能并不一定是真的。这正是我们在第一章试图解开的难题。您还分享了一些有关您的父母如何在节俭和花钱来 impression 别人之间反复摇摆的故事。您能解释一下您的“节俭炫耀”理论，并谈谈它如何导致您在后来的生活中出现了情感上的冲突性支出习惯吗？
Very first disclaimer that I also say in the book is that this is a deeply unscientific theory. This is more something that I noticed when talking to a lot of other folks, especially first-gen child of immigrant folks about our experiences with money. My frugal flex theory helps for me to explain why so many of us get to adulthood and feel so confused about how we're supposed to see money, how we're supposed to interact with money, how to handle money.
我在书中也提到了很重要的一个声明，就是这个理论并不科学。这更像是我和其他许多首代移民孩子谈论金钱经历时发现的一些东西。我的“俭约弹性理论”帮助我解释了为什么我们中的很多人在成年后会感到困惑，不知道我们应该如何看待金钱，如何与金钱互动，如何处理金钱。
So imagine frugal on one side of a spectrum and flex on the other side of the spectrum. My idea, my thought is that on any given day, our family can either be on the frugal side of the spectrum or the flex side of the spectrum. But it changes all the time. Really it could change within the day.
所以，想象一下节俭在光谱的一侧，弹性在另一侧。我的想法是，在任何一天，我们的家庭可以处于节俭光谱的一侧或弹性光谱的一侧。但这种情况一直在变化。实际上，它可能在一天之内就会发生变化。
You can start the day off with your, my family at least being like, we have rice at home. You think we have new Jordans money if you think your family, the other family is so cool because they just got new like Nokia's dating myself. They just got a new Nokia cell phone, go live with them. We're like bringing properware of food, properware of food and hiding them in our bags to go to the grocery store. I'm watching lots of financial stress happen in my house. I'm like, okay. So we're frugal. So we're broke. So we're lower middle class. That's the idea.
你可以开始一天的生活，和你，至少是我家人一样，我们有米在家。如果你认为你的家庭、另一个家庭很酷，因为他们刚刚买了像诺基亚这样的新东西，那么你觉得我们有新乔丹的钱吗？他们刚刚买了一部新的诺基亚手机，去和他们生活吧。我们会带上适量的食物，把它们藏在袋子里去买菜。我在家里看到了很多财务压力。所以我们很节俭，所以我们很穷，所以我们是低中产阶级，这就是我们的想法。
Not too, we go to like a family gathering later that day. My mom is wearing her head to toe, potentially fake Louis Vuitton stuff, wearing her best things. We get to the party. All the other aunties and moms are wearing their best of the best of the best. Even though I know that like we're all working very similar jobs. I don't know how anybody is affording this stuff. Who might all go out to dinner. Suddenly they're fighting over the bill. We're all talking about vacations. We're taking, okay. So now we're flexing. Now money is to be shared. Money is to be really thrown at each other like in each other's faces. Money is used to show status.
今天晚些时候，我们会去一个类似家庭聚会的地方。我的妈妈穿着从头到脚都是LV，可能是假货，但也是她最好的衣物。到了聚会，其他阿姨和妈妈们也穿着他们最好的衣服，尽管我们都从事着相似的工作。我不知道他们是怎么负担得起这些东西的。我们可能会一起出去吃饭，突然间他们开始争账单了。我们都在讨论我们将要去的度假地，所以现在我们在炫耀。现在，钱是要分享的东西，钱真的像被扔在彼此的脸上一样，用来显示地位。
And really when it comes to for a lot of us who are first gen folks, money is supposed to help us kind of put a banner over our heads of just like, I've achieved the American dream. I did it. We're wealthy. But then living inside of that spectrum all the time, paying, ponging like you said, back and forth between we're frugal. We're ashamed. We don't talk about it. We're broke. We don't have enough to. Abundance, this is confusing and we're showing people the abundance we have and we're like being lavish with other people. How are we supposed to understand?
实际上，对我们这些第一代人来说，金钱应该帮助我们将一面“我达成了美国梦”的旗帜悬挂在头顶上。我们变得富有。但我们常常生活在这种旗帜之下，不断地在保守和浪费之间来回思考，就像你说的那样。我们感到羞耻，不愿意谈论。我们穷困潦倒，没有足够的财富。富足和缺乏的界限很模糊，我们向别人展示我们的丰富，与他人慷慨大方。我们该如何理解呢？
Where money really stands for us and our families? How are we supposed to understand the reality of our financial situations? If we're using it to like signal so many different things and especially when we're young and we're still developing our financial brains.
在哪里，金钱真正代表着我们和我们的家庭？我们应该如何理解我们财务状况的现实？如果我们把金钱用来表达很多不同的东西，尤其是当我们年轻并且仍在发展我们的财务智力时。
So when I talk about this theory in front of other folks, I get a lot of like, oh my gosh. That exact thing happened in my family too. It was just as confusing. But of course, growing up we don't have the vocabulary to talk about this.
所以，当我在其他人面前谈论这个理论时，我会遇到很多像“哦，天啊”的反应。这种情况在我家也发生过，同样让人感到困惑。但是，当然，在成长过程中，我们没有词汇来谈论这个问题。
We also because again, money is this thing we're not supposed to talk about. We don't even know that this is like an issue that we can try to highlight or talk to each other about. And so sharing things like the frugal flex theory, really the purpose of that is to help other folks feel seen in the confusion that they experienced in their financial life.
我们也因为钱是不应该谈论的事情，所以我们甚至不知道这是一个我们可以尝试突出或互相交流的问题。因此，分享像"紧缩理论"这样的东西，其实目的是要帮助其他人在他们的金融生活中感到被看到，减少他们面临的困惑。
Like we're talking about the things in chapter one, help people start to make connections between what they experience, what they happen in their families and their childhood and their upbringing and why they feel so confused or ashamed or insert X like destabilizing feeling about money in their minds. We're just trying to connect dots.
就像我们在谈论第一章中的事情一样，我们希望帮助人们开始将他们所经历的事情，他们在家庭和童年时期所经历的事情，以及他们的教养联系在一起，以及为什么他们会感到如此困惑、羞愧或者像金钱不稳定等X类感觉存在于他们的心中。我们只是试图连接这些点。
Just to kind of close this out here, you are the ultimate financial hype woman and you seem to have this magic ability to inject positivity into just about every area of finance.
说到这里，你可谓是一位最具财务热情的女性，有一种神奇的能力能够在财务领域注入积极的能量。
What's a good strategy that you can leave us with today for protecting our financial peace during challenging times right now? Yes, I mean, this is, you read the book, you might know this, but the drum I beat every single chapter is community.
你今天能给我们提供什么好的策略来在当前经济困难时期保护我们的财务和平呢？是的，我的意思是，你读了这本书，你可能已经知道了，但我在每一章中都强调了团体的重要性。
Talk to people, open literally money out loud, open, yamouth, talk about what's going on with you. I think community is incredibly important in every aspect and if I'm going to get really woo, woo, ancestral about it, I think all the time about the fact that like my answers to my Filipino culture didn't do anything alone. Everything was done communally.
与人交流，大声地说出你的感受、开放心扉，畅谈发生在你身上的事情。我认为，在各个方面，社区都非常重要。如果我使用祖先的视角，我会思考一个事实，那就是在我的菲律宾文化里，我的答案并不是单独完成的，所有的事情都是通过社区协作完成的。
I think there's a lot of really important conversations and sort of like thought hallways happening these days that this American kind of habit of individualism and like bootstrapping and like we should all just like be very strong in and of ourselves.
我认为现在有很多非常重要的对话和思想空间正在发生，这是美国这种个人主义和自力更生的习惯，我们应该都非常坚强并独立的做事方式。
There's some truth to that, but that is also what breeds our shame in these like individualized shadows and like silos of we're going to keep things to ourselves.
那确实有一些道理，但这也是导致我们在这些个体化和孤立的阴影和私人空间中感到羞耻的原因。我们倾向于把事情放在心里，不与他人分享。
The reason I have a career, the reason that I feel so energized in my career every single day and in talking about this book and about money for the last few years is because I get energy from talking to other people about it.
我为什么拥有职业，每天都感到充满能量并且在过去几年中谈论这本书以及金钱的原因是因为我从与其他人谈论这个话题中获得能量。
The very beginning of all this started because I was like, okay, I've been doing this weird budgeting system for like six months by myself. What if I just make a boomerang about it and put it on Instagram?
所有这一切的开始是因为我想，好吧，我自己一直在使用这种奇怪的预算系统已经有六个月了。如果我制作一个回旋镖并在Instagram上发布它，会怎么样呢？
Suddenly I have people to talk to about my money life. Suddenly I have people bouncing energy back to me about how this is inspiring them. Suddenly I am discovering the debt free community on Instagram and YouTube and I'm getting energy from those folks from their plans and their details and their content.
突然间，我有人可以谈论我的财务生活。突然间，有人给我反馈他们是如何被我的经历所激励的。突然间，我在Instagram和YouTube上发现了无债一身轻的社区，从他们的计划、细节和内容中我得到了能量。
So in order to protect your financial peace, I need you to get up out of your head. Like I need you to get out of the isolation chamber you've created for yourself financially and talk to people you feel safe about with money.
所以，为了保护你的财务安宁，我需要你从自己的想法中走出来。就像我需要你走出你在财务方面创造的隔离室，并与你觉得有安全感的人谈论金钱。
I talk about money friends a lot in my book and it doesn't need to be like a whole group of people. It doesn't even really need to be anyone who is directly in your life if you don't feel safe talking about money with those folks.
在我的书中我谈论了很多与金钱有关的朋友，但这并不需要是一整个朋友群体。如果你不感觉安全，甚至不需要是你生活中直接接触的朋友。
Find a community online on Discord, on Reddit, on Instagram, on YouTube where you can start to share little bits of your financial self start to feel seen, start to see other people.
在Discord、Reddit、Instagram或YouTube上找到一个社区，在那里你可以开始分享你的财务状况，感觉被认可，并开始看到其他人的状况。
Then this whole financial journey becomes not something that you're just carrying this giant backpack by yourself, but a collective effort.
那么整个财务旅程就不再是你独自背负着一个巨大的背包，而是一个集体努力。
That's really how I end money out loud is that money as a collective effort can really really change the world. But more than that, it'll change your own financial perspective on things.
这实际上就是我大声说出来的，金钱作为集体的力量确实可以真正改变世界。但更重要的是，它将改变你个人在财务方面的看法。
To not feel alone is it makes such an impact on your well-being and your health and just your general, the space that you feel in your brain. We could all use more space in our brain. So just share it, share what you can with the folks around you that you feel safe with and just start to wiggle out, wiggle out of that isolation chamber.
不再感到孤单对你的健康和幸福状况以及大脑空间感受会产生如此巨大的影响。我们都需要更多的大脑空间。所以，与你感到安全的人分享你所能分享的东西，并开始摆脱孤立的状态。
It'll feel good.
这会感觉很棒。
I love that and it is quite literally in the name of your upcoming book, Money Out Loud. Thank you so much for your time today, Bernard. This has been great and I hope you can have you back soon.
我喜欢这个，而且它几乎就在你即将出版的书《钱在呐喊》的书名中。非常感谢你今天的时间，Bernard。这真是太好了，希望不久能再次邀请你来。
Yes, thank you so much, Sierra. I really appreciate it.
是的，非常感谢你，Sierra。我很感激。
As always, people on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about and the Motley Four may have formal recommendations for or against so don't buy or sell stocks based solely on what you hear. I'm Deja Willard. Thanks for listening. vitamins x30.
像往常一样，节目中的人可能对他们谈论的股票感兴趣，而Motley Four可能对其正式推荐或反对，因此不要仅根据所听到的内容买卖股票。我是Deja Willard。感谢收听。维生素x30。