Warren Redlich QA about Musk Delaware 55B

All right. Hello, hello, hello. Hey, this is Warren Redlich. I've been active on X, AKA Twitter, talking about what's been going on with Elon's compensation package, the litigation that was filed. I don't see that many people watching it, so I'm probably not going to dive too deeply into this until we get a few more viewers.

好的。嗨，嗨，嗨。嘿，我是华伦·雷德里奇。我一直在X（又名Twitter）活动，谈论埃隆的薪酬计划以及提起的诉讼。我没看到很多人关注，所以在有更多观众之前，我可能不会深入探讨这个问题。

But there was a lawsuit that was filed by a class action law firm suing Tesla and Elon over his compensation package from 2018. There was a decision by a judge that just happened good afternoon, Brian. It's actually 1054 p.m. here in Thailand. So I've been getting a lot of questions on the X platform about the lawsuit and a lot of angry shareholders. So I wanted to address some questions.

但是有一起诉讼由一个集体诉讼律师事务所对特斯拉和埃隆（马斯克）在2018年的薪酬方案提起的。有一位法官做出了决定，刚刚是下午好，布莱恩。实际上，泰国现在是晚上10点54分。因此，我收到了许多有关这起诉讼和很多愤怒股东的问题。所以我想回答一些问题。

So I think the first thing I want to talk about, I think the thing that shocks people the most is what do I think is likely to happen in terms of the legal fees? Good to see you, Matthew. Thank you. I think people are going to be shocked by this, but the value of the lawsuit is probably around 55. I think the theory is that Elon received compensation that was valued in the ballpark of $55 billion. And my ballpark estimate is that the attorney's legal fee is going to be somewhere around $5 billion. Now, this is shocking to people. Thank you, Matthew.

所以，我认为我想谈论的第一件事是，我认为最让人震惊的是，我认为在法律费用方面可能会发生什么？很高兴见到你，马修。谢谢。我认为人们可能会对此感到震惊，但是诉讼的价值大约在550亿左右。我认为这种理论是，埃隆接受了价值约550亿美元的补偿。而我大致估计律师的法律费用会在50亿左右。现在，这对人们来说是令人震惊的。谢谢你，马修。

So would I lead a countersuit? So this is a question I'm going to just let me let me okay. So first of all, I'm going to tell you why I think the plaintiff attorney, the class action law from the file, the lawsuit is going to get somewhere in the ballpark of $5 billion in legal fees. I'll cover that in a minute. Brian asked a question, would you lead a countersuit? I've seen this question so much on X that we should sue the judge. We should sue the plaintiff who sued. We should sue the law firm that that brought the lawsuit.

那我会提起反诉吗？这是一个问题，我会让我解释一下。首先，我要告诉你为什么我认为原告律师和集体诉讼法会得到大约50亿美元的律师费。我一会儿会解释这个问题。Brian问了一个问题，你会提起反诉吗？我在X上经常看到这个问题，我们应该起诉法官。我们应该起诉原告起诉的人。我们应该起诉提起诉讼的律师事务所。

Look, the reality is that that's not the way it works. The lawsuit was brought by a shareholder, like it or not, nine shares, nine thousand shares, one share, whatever. A shareholder brought a lawsuit against Tesla. The dispute was between the shareholder and Tesla and Elon and the board. Right, that's are we getting like you guys seeing me okay. I'm feeling seeing an interruption in my video, but breakfast pizza says as a lawyer, I'm disappointed in this ruling. So I'm not thrilled the ruling and I just did a video where I did like a two hour live stream on X and I posted it on YouTube, breaking down the details of what happened in the judge's decision. I disagree with the judge's decision.

看，现实情况是这样的，事情并不是那样运作的。这起诉讼是由一名股东提起的，不管你喜欢还是不喜欢，无论是九股、九千股还是一股，都是一名股东对特斯拉提起的诉讼。争议是股东、特斯拉、埃隆和董事会之间的。对，你们能看到我吗？我感觉视频中有一些中断，但早餐比萨说作为一名律师，我对这个裁决感到失望。所以我对这个裁决并不满意，我刚刚在YouTube上发布了一个两小时的直播视频，详细解析了法官的决定。我不同意法官的决定。

Who would listen to this dude wearing a doe shirt? Elon should lose that lawsuit hands down. This is a pathetic discussion. This is from Aaron J. Aaron J is apparently a troll, but thank you for subscribing to my channel Aaron. So I'm wearing a Tesla doe shirt. I'm not wearing a doe shirt. So we don't get to sue the plaintiffs. We don't get to sue the class action law firm. We don't get to sue the judge. The judge is protected by absolute immunity, not qualified immunity, but absolute immunity. The that we don't sue the plaintiff. We don't sue the class action law firm. Their dispute was between them and Elon Tesla and the board. That's and that that dispute was resolved. We as shareholders effectively believe it or not, we were in theory represented by this lawyer who sued Elon, but we were not in we you don't get the opportunity to say, hey, you didn't represent my interests.

谁会听一个穿着母鹿图案衬衫的家伙说话？埃隆应该轻松赢得这场诉讼。这是一场可悲的讨论。这是来自亚伦·J。亚伦·J显然是个网痞，但感谢你订阅我的频道，亚伦。所以我穿着一件特斯拉的母鹿图案衬衫。我没有穿母鹿图案衬衫。所以我们不能起诉原告。我们不能起诉集体诉讼律师事务所。我们不能起诉法官。法官受到绝对豁免的保护，而不是合格豁免。所以我们不起诉原告。我们不起诉集体诉讼律师事务所。他们的争端是他们与埃隆·特斯拉和董事会之间的。这个争端已经解决了。我们作为股东，无论你相不相信，实际上在理论上是由这个起诉埃隆的律师代表我们的，但我们没有机会说，嘿，你没有代表我的利益。

Now, I will say this. Ken says the magistrate was mistaken. So I disagree with a number of things that the judge did in her decision. Am I the only one who's seeing that my video is freezing up? Is it everybody else seeing my video freezing up? I don't know. Tell me if my video is freezing up because I'm seeing it freezing up. So I think the judge made the wrong decision for a bunch of reasons. I can dive into that, but I just want to address this first issue that no, we don't get to sue the judge. No, we don't get to sue the class action law firm. No, we don't get to sue Tor Netta, whatever name is the plaintiff. The dispute was between is between the plaintiff, the class action law firm and their named plaintiff and Tesla and Elon on the board. So, yeah, I guess it's just on my end. My my display is showing potential problems, but if you guys are seeing it, great, that's great. So that's the dispute and we don't get to sue. If OJ Simpson was found not guilty, you don't get to sue the judge or the jury for not convicting OJ Simpson. That's just the way the lawsuits work. The lawsuits are between the people who are involved and outsiders don't get to come in. Even though we're shareholders, we could argue, hey, they didn't really represent my interests. Blah, blah, blah. No, I'm getting I'm not getting dropped frames there. I'm just getting an image of stream is healthy, whatever. I'm getting him just but I'm seeing it on my screen, so I was making sure.

现在，我要说这个。肯恩说法官判断错误。所以我对法官在她的判决中做的一些事情持有异议。难道只有我看到我的视频卡住了吗？是不是其他人也看到我的视频卡住了？我不知道。如果我视频卡住了，请告诉我，因为我自己看到卡住了。所以我认为法官因为很多原因做出了错误的决定。我可以深入讨论这个问题，但我想先解决第一个问题，即我们不能起诉法官。不，我们不能起诉集体诉讼律师事务所。不，我们不能起诉托尼塔，不管原告的名字是什么。争议是发生在原告、集体诉讼律师事务所和特斯拉以及埃隆在董事会之间的。是的，我想这可能只是我这边的问题。我的显示屏显示有潜在问题，但如果你们看得到，那太好了，很好。所以这就是争议，我们不能起诉。如果奥·詹姆斯·辛普森被判无罪，你不能起诉法官或陪审团不宣判奥·詹姆斯·辛普森有罪。这只是诉讼工作的方式。诉讼是发生在涉事的人之间，外人不能插手。即使我们是股东，我们可以争辩，嘿，他们并没有真正代表我的利益。等等。在那里我没有出现丢帧。我只是得到一个流畅的图像，显示流是正常的，什么的。我只是在我的屏幕上看到它，所以我要确保一下。

So, that's the first thing. Now, let's talk about what I think is likely to happen going forward. Okay, first thing is the law firm that represented the class action lawsuit is going to seek a fee and the judge specifically mentioned the attorney's fee at the end of the decision that there would be some final order that would include attorney's fees. And I would expect they're going to submit their proposed attorney's fee and Tesla's going to oppose the attorney's fee. And that's going to be the result. And there will be an attorney's fee. And my prediction is that the attorney's fee will be close to $5 billion. Why am I saying $5 billion? Because that's about a 10% of the amount of money that was effectively saved by the shareholders.

好的，首先谈一下我认为接下来可能发生的事情。首先，代表集体诉讼的律所将寻求费用，法官在决定的最后提到了律师费，表示会有一项最终命令包括律师费。我预计他们将提交他们的建议律师费，而特斯拉将反对律师费。这将是最终结果，律师费将会被确定下来。我预测律师费将接近50亿美元。为什么我会说50亿美元呢？因为这大约是股东有效节省的资金金额的10%。

Now, I don't believe I have no idea why that just happened. Let's see if I can make that happen again. Yeah. So, I don't think that they actually saved the shareholders money. I think they actually cost the shareholders money, but you know, Elon was awarded $55 billion in the compensation package. They've now in theory saved the shareholders $55 billion. A 10% award would be in the ballpark of what I would expect to be awarded. Now, maybe they'll be 8%, maybe they'll be 12%, maybe they'll be 5%. I don't know. I have no idea why that I have no idea why those balloons appeared. That was really weird.

现在，我不相信我完全不知道刚刚发生了什么。让我们看看我是否能再次发生这种情况。是的，所以我认为他们实际上并没有为股东节省资金，我相信他们实际上是让股东损失了资金，但你知道，埃隆在补偿计划中获得了550亿美元。从理论上讲，他们节省了550亿美元的资金给股东。我预计奖励将在10%左右，也许是8%，也许是12%，也许是5%。我不知道。我完全不明白为什么那些气球会突然出现，这太奇怪了。

So, and I think this is shocking to a lot of people that the law firm would get that much. And you know, in a typical plaintiff's lawsuit, as I was a plaintiff's lawyer, I sued in car accident cases, and I would typically get a fee of one third. So, one third would be an awful lot in this situation, right? One third would be like, I don't know, $18 billion. So, I believe that, well, Matthew says shares aren't money. The value of Elon's compensation package turned out to be about $55 billion. Now, Elon not getting those options means that shareholders are not diluted in an amount that's valued by about $55 billion.

因此，这对很多人来说都是令人震惊的，一个律师事务所能得到那么多钱。你知道，在典型的原告起诉案件中，就像我当初作为原告律师在车祸案件中提起诉讼，我通常能获得三分之一的费用。所以，在这种情况下，三分之一就是相当多的，对吧？三分之一就像，我不知道，180亿美元。因此，我相信，马修说的股份不是钱。埃隆的补偿计划价值约为550亿美元。现在，埃隆没有获得这些选择权意味着股东所持有的股份价值没有被稀释，大约价值550亿美元。

So, here's the problem with this. Okay. The real problem with this is, what's likely to happen next besides the attorney's fee? What's likely to happen is the board will meet. The board will discuss a compensation package to make up for what Elon lost. They will cross the T's and dot the I's that the judge claims were missed. That compensation package will go to shareholders for approval, and the shareholders will probably approve the compensation package, a retroactive compensation package. And Elon will probably get about the same as he got in the first place. And it will cost the shareholders about the same as it cost us in the first place. And so, the shareholders are out to $55 billion either way. And the plan, we're out an additional $5 billion in the fee to the plaintiff's lawyer, and we're out whatever Tesla spent on its own lawyers. So, the shareholders get screwed.

所以，这就是问题所在。嗯。实际问题在于，除了律师费之外，接下来可能会发生什么？接下来可能会发生的是，董事会将会议。董事会将讨论一项补偿方案，以弥补埃隆损失的部分。他们将落实法官声称被忽视的细节。该补偿方案将提交股东审批，并且股东可能会批准该补偿方案，一个追溯补偿方案。而埃隆可能会得到与一开始一样的补偿。这对股东而言的成本将与一开始相同，达到550亿美元。而这个计划，我们将为原告律师的费用额外损失50亿美元，并且我们还会为特斯拉自己律师的费用付出成本。所以，这对股东来说是个坏消息。

Zachi says he will take the case to Texas. The case is in Delaware. You don't get to take the case to Texas. Will Tesla move their incorporation state to Texas? It's possible. I'm not sure how much of a gain that is. I will say this. I want to be fair to Tesla and Tesla's lawyers. When you read the judge's decision, it appears that Tesla's lawyers did not make sure that Tesla crossed all the Ts and dotted all the eyes, and that's what blew up in Tesla's face. Now, I would look at this and say, you know, first of all, the judge interpreted some things wrongly, like saying that Ira Aaron Price is not independent, saying Robin Dennholm is not an independent director. I think that the judge's decisions there were terrible. But the reality is any state you go to, you're going to have complications. Delaware has generally been thought to be a state that has very stable and predictable laws regarding corporations, and that you know what you're going to get. If you go to a state that has less history of shareholder litigation, of litigation like this, you are less certain what results you're going to get. So, a lot of lawyers would prefer to have their corporate corporations in Delaware for these kind of lawsuits. And the fact that there's a bad one doesn't mean that on average you expect bad outcomes. Now, there is some indication, I think Alexander Mers, Tesla boomerama brought this up. And I think Elon has brought this up that Delaware has changed and is no longer as predictable as companies like, and that some companies are now deciding to incorporate in other states because Delaware is no longer treating companies the way they used to, and they're no longer as predictable.

Zachi表示他将把这个案件提交到得克萨斯州。这个案件目前在特拉华州。你没有权利把这个案件提交到得克萨斯州。特斯拉会将其注册地迁移到得克萨斯吗？这有可能。但我不确定这是否有多大的好处。不过我可以说一下。我希望对特斯拉和特斯拉的律师公正一点。当你阅读法官的判决时，可以看出特斯拉的律师没有确保特斯拉做到了万无一失，这就是问题出在特斯拉的地方。我会说，首先，法官错误地解释了一些事情，比如说艾拉·艾伦·普莱斯不是独立的，罗宾·丹霍姆也不是独立董事。我认为法官在这方面的判决是糟糕的。但实际情况是，无论你去哪个州，都会有些麻烦。一直以来，特拉华州一直被认为是一个拥有非常稳定和可预测的公司法律的州，你知道你会得到什么结果。如果你去一个在股东诉讼或这类诉讼方面历史较少的州，你不太确定会得到什么结果。因此，很多律师宁愿在特拉华州设立公司，以应对这种诉讼。而出现一个不好的案例并不意味着你预期会有不好的结果。现在有一些迹象表明，特拉华州已经发生了变化，不再像以前那样可预测，一些公司现在决定在其他州注册，因为特拉华州不再像过去那样对待公司。

So, Mark Plott says the judge is complicit. I don't want to say that the judge is politically motivated. What I would say is it's apparent the judge does not like Elon. The judge has, I think this is the second or third case the judge has handled with Elon. I don't, I'm not saying it was political or wasn't political, I'm just saying, I don't care whether it's political.

所以，Mark Plott说法官是串通一气的。我不想说法官有政治动机。我想说的是，显然法官不喜欢埃隆。我认为这是法官与埃隆处理的第二个或第三个案件。我不是说这是出于政治因素还是非政治因素，我只是不在意是否具有政治意味。

I read the decision and the interpretation that Ira Aaron Price from the compensation committee and Robin Denholm from the board of directors and forget the guy's first name but boss or something like that from the board of directors saying that they were not independent directors is borderline absurd. Ira Aaron Price that was basically a hit job on Ira Aaron Price. Now, there's a board member named Antonio Gracias. I think there's a fair argument that he's less independent. He's not fully independent. And I think when the Tesla put out its proxy for the shareholder vote and said that all the directors were independent that in particular when they said that Gracias was independent, I think they may have gone too far, but that's one of those like, okay, they didn't cross that T or dot that I, but when you look at the grand scheme of things, did shareholders know what we were voting on? I think I knew what I was voting on. I wasn't particularly concerned with whether the directors were independent enough. I think I knew understood what I was voting on. I think Jason DeBolt understood what he was voting on. I think Dave Lee understood what he was voting on. We're a significant portion of the shareholders misled by the proxy. I don't think so. I think we all understood that it was an outside compensation package if Tesla delivered outside's growth. And we felt that that was fair.

我读了来自补偿委员会的艾拉·艾伦·普莱斯和董事会的罗宾·丹霍姆的决定和解释，还有来自董事会的一个人（姓名忘了，但是是董事会的老板或类似职位）说他们不是独立董事，这简直荒谬至极。我觉得对艾拉·艾伦·普莱斯简直就是一次追杀。现在，有一名董事会成员名叫安东尼奥·格拉西亚斯。我认为可以说他不够独立。他并非完全独立。而且当特斯拉发布了股东投票的代理文件，并表示所有董事都是独立的时，特别是当他们表示格拉西亚斯是独立的时，我认为他们可能过于夸大了，但是这就是那种，好吧，他们没有把事情处理得面面俱到，但是当你从整体上看的时候，股东们知道自己在投票什么吗？我想我知道我在投票什么。我并没有特别关心董事们是否足够独立。我想贾森·德博尔特知道他在投票什么。我想戴夫·李也知道他在投票什么。股东中有多少人被代理文件误导了？我不这么认为。我认为我们都明白，如果特斯拉完成了外部增长目标，那么这就是一个外部补偿计划。而且我们觉得这是公平的。

William asks, well, Mr. Musk, Musk leave Tesla. I don't think Elon is going to leave Tesla. I think there's a chance that if they are not able to compensate Elon adequately for his past work and in particular for his future work, that he might decide to no longer be CEO of Tesla, continue to be involved with product engineering, but put more time into other companies like SpaceX, Neuralink, Boring Company, and particularly XAI. And that that would, in the short run, if Elon made a decision like that, if Elon decided, you know what, I'm not going to be CEO anymore, because I don't think I've been adequately compensated for the amount of work I put in. And I have other things that I want to focus my time on. And I think Tesla will be fine if I take on a diminished role at Tesla. I think if Elon did that, then the stock price would fall 50% in a day. And thank you, Judge McCormick for screwing Tesla shareholders. If that's the result, I mean, I'm kind of hopeful that Elon stays on as CEO, but it is, it is an issue. Like, I think that Elon still wants to have control of Tesla, but I think Elon could decide, I think in particular, Elon could decide. But the development of artificial general intelligence is the most important thing that any of his companies will do. That XAI is the company that he has the most control over that does AI, and that he can recruit engineers from Tesla and elsewhere to join him at XAI. And he can focus his efforts on developing AGI at XAI while partnering with Tesla and supporting Tesla with GRC and supporting Tesla in other ways, and utilizing Tesla resources to help XAI. I think that a deal like that could be worked out, and that would mean that Elon would be less involved with Tesla day to day operations than he is now.

威廉问道，对了，马斯克先生，马斯克离开特斯拉了吗？我不认为埃隆会离开特斯拉。我认为如果他们不能充分补偿埃隆过去和未来的工作，他可能会决定不再担任特斯拉的首席执行官，而只专注于产品工程，并投入更多时间到像SpaceX、Neuralink、Boring Company和尤其是XAI这样的其他公司。如果埃隆做出这样的决定，特斯拉的股价短期内可能会下跌50%。感谢McCormick法官给特斯拉股东带来的麻烦。如果这样的结果发生，我是有一些希望埃隆能继续担任首席执行官，但这确实是一个问题。我认为埃隆仍然想要掌控特斯拉，但他可能会决定特别注重人工智能的发展。XAI是他最具控制权的从事人工智能的公司，他可以从特斯拉和其他地方招募工程师加入XAI。他可以在XAI专注于发展通用人工智能的同时，与特斯拉合作并通过GRC和其他方式支持特斯拉，利用特斯拉的资源帮助XAI。我认为可以达成这样的协议，这意味着埃隆将比现在更少地参与特斯拉的日常运营。

And I think that if that happened, if Elon said I'm not going to be CEO anymore, I'm going to be chief product officer and Drew Baglino is now the CEO. And I'm going to spend more time over at XAI, and I'm really going to focus on AGI. And some of the resources from Tesla are going to be refocused towards XAI. And this will be a deal between XAI and Tesla, and Tesla will benefit from it. But Tesla will end up not being the company that develops XAI. XAI becomes the company that develops XAI, and then Elon has more control over the development of AGI. And we don't get to own that. Now, we still get the Robo-TEXI network, we still get Optimus. And we still, you know, as shareholders long term, we still 10X or 50X or so on. But we, there's an upside cap to that because if we lose AGI, and AGI is potentially bigger even than Optimus, then we miss out on that. And it may be that, you know, Elon sells some more stock in Tesla and buys an insane amount of GPUs for XAI or they buy Dojo from Tesla. And let it use it. But if Elon ever steps down, it'll be over the weekend. The company that will make AGI is NVIDIA anyway. No, I don't.

我认为，如果发生这种情况，如果埃隆说我不再担任CEO了，我要成为首席产品官，德鲁·巴格里诺将成为CEO。我会花更多时间在XAI上，并且将专注于AGI。特斯拉的一些资源将重新集中到XAI上。这将是XAI和特斯拉之间的交易，特斯拉将从中受益。但特斯拉最终不会成为发展XAI的公司。XAI将成为发展XAI的公司，然后埃隆将对AGI的发展拥有更多控制权。我们不能拥有那个。现在，我们仍然会得到机器人TAXI网络，我们仍然会得到Optimus。我们作为股东从长远来看，我们仍然可以获得10倍甚至50倍的回报。但是，由于我们失去了AGI，而且AGI的潜力甚至可能大于Optimus，这就存在上限。也许，埃隆会在特斯拉再出售一些股票，并为XAI购买大量的GPU，或者他们会从特斯拉购买Dojo并使用它。但是，如果埃隆辞去职务，那会发生在周末。无论如何，将制造AGI的公司都是英伟达。不，我不这么认为。

So the problem is that it's not clear what's necessary to reach AGI. I don't know that large language models alone are sufficient to reach AGI. I don't know that diffusion models and other models in the abstract are going to get to AGI. I mean, you could argue that chat GPT for already is AGI if you want. But I think the combination of real world AI from Tesla and large language models and diffusion models and so on combined may get us a lot closer to AGI. And I think Tesla, Elon could focus the development of that at XAI over Tesla.

所以问题在于尚不清楚实现人工通用智能所需的条件。我不确定仅依靠庞大的语言模型就足以实现人工通用智能。我也不确定扩散模型和其他抽象模型是否能够达到人工通用智能。如果你愿意，你可以争辩说聊天型GPT已经是人工通用智能了。但是我认为，特斯拉的实际应用AI、庞大的语言模型、扩散模型等的结合可能会使我们离人工通用智能更近一步。我认为特斯拉和埃隆应该将发展重点放在XAI，而不是特斯拉本身。

So the document said Tesla peers as Amazon and Apple and Google. Does that mean Tesla's a tech company? Yeah, there was a particular point in the decision where the judge was talking about and I think that when the board was deciding on Elon's compensation package, there was this comparison to Amazon, Apple and Google. I'm trying to remember what the specific number was. I think it was like the operational milestones and the ratio of EBITDA to revenue and Tesla's number in this compensation package was larger than Amazon's but smaller than Apple or Google. And it seemed like in line to me and I think the judge wasn't really clear about that but it sounded not good.

那么文件中提到特斯拉的同行是亚马逊、苹果和谷歌。这是否意味着特斯拉是一家科技公司？是的，在裁决中有一个特定的观点，法官在讨论时提到董事会在决定埃隆的薪酬方案时，将特斯拉与亚马逊、苹果和谷歌进行了比较。我正在努力回忆具体数字是什么。我记得这可能是运营里程碑和EBITDA与收入之比，特斯拉在这个薪酬方案中的数字大于亚马逊，但小于苹果或谷歌。对我来说看起来是合理的，但法官似乎不是很清楚，听起来不太好。

So by the way, thank you to Mark Plot and Mark Batachenik for moderating the chat. So I wanted to just be clear, there's a chat here. If you have questions, legal questions, please put them in the chat and I will talk about them. And I want to be clear, I'm not suggesting that the judge's decision was political. I think the judge was biased against Elon. I think the judge was biased against Tesla. I think that it's apparent. I guess I would put it this way. The way I like to put it is when I read the decision, sorry for those who don't know, I am technically still a lawyer. I am a retired lawyer in Florida. I'm still considered active lawyer in New York even though I'm not active. And I consider myself a retired lawyer. And I did not do securities class action work. I think I handled one case as a as a as a a law clerk to a judge and there was I helped the judge research and make a decision on a case that was vaguely in the ballpark of like mergers type securities lawsuit. Most of my I did a lot of civil litigation. I did a lot of criminal defense. I think I have a fair understanding of some of the legal issues here. I don't think the judge really explained her decision from a legal perspective as well as I would have liked. That's a long conversation. I'm used to judges decision saying in such and such a case, this happened in such and such a case, this happened. And I feel like there was less of that in the decision than I expected. Maybe that's normal for Delaware. I don't know.

顺便说一句，谢谢马克·普洛特和马克·巴塔奇尼克主持聊天。所以我想明确一下，这里有一个聊天室。如果你有法律问题，请在聊天室里提出来，我会谈论它们。但是我想明确一点，我不认为法官的决定是政治的。我认为法官对埃隆有偏见，对特斯拉也有偏见。我觉得这一点显而易见。我想用这样的方式表达：当我阅读判决书时，抱歉对于那些不知道的人，我实际上仍然是一名律师。我在佛罗里达州是一名退休律师。尽管我不是在业内工作，但在纽约州我仍被视为一名活跃律师。我认为自己是一名退休律师。我没有从事过证券集体诉讼的工作。我只作为法官的助理法官参与过一起与合并类证券诉讼相关的案件，并帮助法官进行研究并作出决定。我大部分时间从事民事诉讼工作，也做了很多刑事辩护工作。我认为自己对一些法律问题有相当的了解。我不认为法官从法律角度出发对她的决定做了很好的解释，不像我预期的那样。这是一个很长的话题。我习惯于法官的决定中说“在某某案中发生了某某事情，在某某案中发生了某某事情”。我觉得判决书中这方面的内容比我预期的要少。也许这在特拉华州是正常的，我不知道。

And Matthew says NVIDIA has very little AI. They only make compute for it. I think NVIDIA makes AI hardware, but there's also a lot of software that NVIDIA makes that assists with operating the hardware. But I don't think they have the AI itself. It could be wrong.

马修说，NVIDIA在人工智能方面做得很少，他们只是为其提供计算。我认为NVIDIA制造了人工智能硬件，但他们还制造了许多辅助硬件运行的软件。但我认为他们并没有自己拥有人工智能。但这也可能是错误的。

So, he says, so Elon has 13% instead of 25%. Why is it not enough for him to stay as Tesla CEO? Well, I think Elon has about 50% of SpaceX and SpaceX is a $150 billion company and SpaceX has a lot of growth potential and SpaceX is focused on a goal that is more important to Elon than accelerating the transition to sustainable energy. SpaceX is focused on the goal of building a colony on Mars. So, maybe his time has better spent at SpaceX. This is a key distinction there.

所以，他说，埃隆只有13%的股权，而不是25%。为什么他觉得这不足以继续担任特斯拉首席执行官呢？嗯，我认为埃隆大约拥有SpaceX的50%股权，而SpaceX是一家价值1500亿美元的公司，拥有很大的增长潜力，并且其目标更重要于加速实现可持续能源转型。SpaceX专注于建立火星殖民地的目标，这对埃隆来说更重要。所以，也许他在SpaceX上的时间更值得投入。这是一个关键的区别。

The judge compared Elon to Bezos, Gates and Bezos, Gates and Zuckerberg who do not get compensation from their, they do not get like stock options or whatever from their work. But I think the key difference to understand is Zuckerberg, Gates and Bezos did not have some other companies that they were running that they could choose to spend their time at instead of the company that they were running. Elon's stake in SpaceX is pretty substantial. He has something like $60, $70, $80 billion in SpaceX stock. The value of boring company and Neuralink just started their human trials. I mean, the value of Neuralink as it scales is insane. I mean, I could easily see 100 million people a year getting a Neuralink. They have $10,000 a pop. That's a trillion dollars a year. And then every three years they upgrade to the newer hardware. I mean, people are getting new iPhones every year every two years. Are you going to get a new Neuralink every three years? I don't know.

法官对比了埃隆和贝索斯、盖茨以及扎克伯格。这些人并不从自己的工作中获取报酬，比如不拿股票期权或者其他什么的。但我认为需要理解的关键区别是扎克伯格、盖茨和贝索斯没有其他公司可供选择，而可以选择将时间投入到另外一家公司中。埃隆在SpaceX的股份相当可观。他在SpaceX的股票价值大约是600亿、700亿到800亿美元。无聊公司和Neuralink的价值刚刚开始进行人体试验。就随着规模的扩大，Neuralink的价值会变得疯狂。每年能有1亿人使用Neuralink是很容易的。每次使用费用是1万美元。那就是每年一万亿美元。而且每三年人们都会升级到更新的硬件。我觉得人们每年或者每两年换一个新的iPhone，那么每三年换一个新的Neuralink呢？我不知道。

Oh, Ken asked a good question. Ken asked this question. Did the board deceive shareholders in any way? The judge felt that the board in saying that the directors were independent and I would say in particular Antonio Graszias and Ira Aaron Price and Robin Denham. When the board did its proxy to the shareholders, there's a document sent up to Shail Holders to guide the vote saying that the compensation plan was developed and or reviewed by independent directors. I think the one thing that is closest to deceptive is describing Antonio Graszias as an independent. director. I think Antonio Graszias, his relationship with Elon may be too close to classify him as an independent director. Had they not said it at all, it might have been better. It probably would have been better still if they had disclosed Elon's relationship with the various board members. The problem with that thinking is if you take that, you know, apply it to every T and I, every T that might be crossed and every I that might be dotted, you end up with a proxy that's ridiculous. That's a thousand pages long and that's one of the problems.

嗯，Ken提出了一个很好的问题。Ken问了这个问题。董事会有没有以任何方式欺骗股东？法官认为董事会在说董事会独立的时候，尤其是安东尼奥·格拉舍斯、艾拉·亚伦·普赖斯和罗宾·丹汉姆。当董事会向股东进行委托时，有一份文档被发送给股东，指导他们投票，并表示薪酬计划是由独立董事会制定和/或审查的。我觉得最接近欺骗的是将安东尼奥·格拉舍斯描述为独立董事。我认为安东尼奥·格拉舍斯与埃隆的关系可能过于密切，不能将他归类为独立董事。如果他们根本没有提到这一点，可能会更好。如果他们透露出埃隆与各个董事成员的关系，可能会更好。但这种思维的问题在于，如果你对每一个细节都要过分关注，你最终得到的委托书会变得荒谬。那将是一份长达一千页的文件，这就是问题之一。

Elon was worth the compensation. This was a hitchhope. You know, the judge seemed to, I mean, the judge is talking like this compensation package was you know, dramatically larger than any compensation package in history. I will note, by the way, that Peter Rawlinson's compensation package for Lucid at $300 million was far and away larger as a proportion that I believe significantly larger as a proportion of the value he delivered to Lucid as compared to Elon's compensation package and the value he delivered. So, thank you, Burnett Chang. I don't, I just want to be clear. Like, I am not a securities class action lawyer. I'm not a securities defense lawyer. This is not my area of law. I just, I'm capable of reading the decisions and understanding the language that the judges use.

伊隆值得得到补偿。这是一个令人担忧的情况。你知道，法官似乎是在说这个补偿方案远远超过了历史上任何一个补偿方案。我还要注意一下，彼得·罗林森为Lucid的补偿方案达到了3亿美元，这在相对价值上远远超过了伊隆的补偿方案和他所创造的价值。所以，谢谢你，Burnett Chang。我想要明确一点，我不是证券集体诉讼律师，也不是证券辩护律师。这不是我专业领域。我只是能够阅读判决书并理解法官使用的语言。

Hopper says was the 73% shareholder vote mentioned or dismissed. The judge decided that the shareholders did not have a proper information and so therefore discounted the vote. The judge felt we were not properly informed. Ryan Forsberg says funds own 47% so the chances are replacing him are decent if we don't vote 25% would make it difficult. So, funds own 47% you know, Ron Barron's fund is going to vote in favor of a compensation package. Our contest is going to vote in favor of a compensation package. I'm sure there are other funds that are going to vote in favor of the compensation package and retail investors are going to vote in favor of it. My guess is that Elon is not going to vote you know, there's an interesting question will Elon vote his shares. I don't think he will. He didn't last time.

霍珀表示，是否提到了股东投票的73%或是否被忽略了。法官裁定股东没有得到正确的信息，因此对此次投票不予考虑。法官认为我们没有得到正确的信息。瑞恩·福斯伯格表示，基金占据了47%，所以如果我们不投票的话，替换他的机会还是不错的。所以，基金占据了47%，而且你知道，朗·巴伦的基金将会支持补偿计划。我们的比赛肯定会支持补偿计划。我相信还有其他的基金将会支持补偿计划，零售投资者也会支持。我猜测伊隆不会投票，你知道，有一个有趣的问题，伊隆会投票支持他的股份吗？我认为他不会。他上次也没投。

Zach, he forelands. So you sell your Tesla shares now. I'm not selling my Tesla shares. I'm holding till for the long haul and I still think Tesla's going to 10x to 50x. Robo taxis at 10x and and uh, uh, optimus is maybe a 20 or 50x. I mean, the, the, the value and don't want to be clear about this. I'm not happy about the result. I believe that in a long and that this is a short term minor impact on Tesla shareholders. Um, arguably it's a plus. So think about this for a second. We as shareholders just got back effectively $55 billion in Tesla stock. This is the biggest, this is Gary Black's best, best result, right? He got a $55 billion share by that. You can't for free. Right. So shareholders just got a windfall in theory. Now it's not a windfall because Tesla's going to read, you know, you know, reissue a compensation package that adequately compensates Elon basically the same. So we're going to lose the same amount of money we just gained and we lose the $5 billion or so fee that the class action lawyers get and we lose the money that we spent Tesla spent on lawyers.

扎克，他失误了。所以你现在应该卖掉你的特斯拉股票。我不会卖我的特斯拉股票。我会长期持有，我仍然认为特斯拉会增长10倍到50倍。自动驾驶出租车能增长10倍，而抱有保守态度的估计是增长20倍或50倍。我的意思是，这个价值不会受到太大影响，更不要说我对这个结果感到满意了。我相信这只是对特斯拉股东的短期轻微影响。可以说这是一种好处。你想一想，作为股东，我们刚刚获得了价值550亿美元的特斯拉股票。这是加里·布莱克目前为止最好的结果，对吧？他以非常低的价格获得了550亿美元的股份。所以理论上来说，股东们刚刚获得了一笔意外之财。当然这不是真正的意外之财，因为特斯拉将会重新给埃隆提供适当的补偿计划，基本上是一样的。所以我们将失去刚刚获得的同等金额并且还会失去大约50亿美元的诉讼律师费用以及特斯拉花费在律师上的费用。

So our books like Walters books considered shareholder disclosures in the public. I don't know who Walter is a Walter Isaacson. No, those are not shareholder disclosures. Can a new compensation package be put forward? So I don't know the answer this question Lawrence. My expectation is that either the board will do a compensation package that combines retroactive compensation for what was lost when this compensation package was thrown out plus a new compensation package going forward or they will do two separate packages and have the shareholders vote on the retroactive package and the future package separately. I'm not sure what the right course of action is and I'm sure they're going to pay lawyers lots of money and I will say this is another issue I have with the judge. The judge on the one hand said that Tesla's lawyers were very talented lawyers and then started talking about all the things they did they failed to prove. Either you think they're great lawyers or you think they aren't great lawyers. Apparently they failed to prove a bunch of things you thought they should approve so they weren't very good lawyers.

所以我们的书籍，例如沃尔特的书籍，被认为是公开的股东披露。我不知道沃尔特是谁，瓦尔特·艾萨克森可能是个人物。不，那些不是股东披露。能否提出一项新的补偿方案？所以我不知道这个问题的答案，劳伦斯。我的期望是董事会要么实施一项综合性补偿方案，包括在原补偿方案被废除时所损失的追溯性补偿，以及前进的新补偿方案；要么他们将制定两个单独的方案，并让股东对追溯性方案和未来方案分别进行投票。我不确定什么是正确的行动方向，我相信他们将会花费大量律师费，我还要说这是我对法官的另一个问题。法官先是说特斯拉的律师是非常有才能的律师，然后又开始谈论他们做错的事情。要么你认为他们是优秀的律师，要么你认为他们不是优秀的律师。显然他们没能证明你认为他们应该证明的一些事情，所以他们不是很出色的律师。

Can you explain your t-shirt? Sure. I met with the Thailand Passla Investors Club and they gave me the shirt. They didn't have a Tesla shirt that would fit me because I'm much larger than most Thai people and they don't really make my size. I'm a six feet tall, 183 centimeters and 95 kilos or 210 pounds or so and they just don't make shirts this large.

你能解释一下你的T恤吗？当然可以。我见过泰国Passla投资者俱乐部的人，他们送给了我这件衬衫。他们没有合适我穿的特斯拉衬衫，因为我比大多数泰国人要高大得多，而他们并没有生产我的尺码。我身高6英尺，大约183厘米，体重95公斤或210磅左右，他们就是不生产这么大尺码的衬衫。

It's hard to get close here. Elon has a huge package, yes. Who gets to keep $5 billion in lawyer fees? That seems absurd. That's more money than the biggest natural lottery in the natural lottery in by more than 5x. Okay, so first of all, when a plaintiff files a class action lawsuit like this or any kind of lawsuit that's an uncertain outcome, there's a probability that they're going to win and there's a probability that they're going to lose. So the way I understand the compensation package's work is you figure out how much work did they put into this lawsuit and then you multiply by the probability of success and you say, all right, there was only a 20% chance they were going to win this, so you multiply the fees by five. That's a rough ballpark, probably incorrect description of how they do it.

在这里很难靠近。埃隆有一个巨大的奖金，是的。谁将获得50亿美元的律师费？这似乎荒谬。这比任何自然彩票的奖金多出5倍以上。首先，当原告提起这样的集体诉讼或任何不确定结果的诉讼时，他们会有赢的可能性，也有输的可能性。据我理解，补偿计划的工作方式是先确定他们在这起诉讼中投入了多少工作，然后乘以成功的可能性，最后说，好吧，他们只有20%的胜算，所以将费用乘以五。这是对他们如何计算的一个粗略的估算，可能不正确。

Oh, so let me address this. Mark Potostik brings this question up to the Delaware Supreme Court. Sorry, just really quick about the fee. I think that contingency fees are typically 33% when the numbers are much smaller. I just posted on X and replied to somebody else that some article that said in the larger cases, you would see fees, it's like a billion dollar award, you would see fees of maybe 15%. So I think 10%, 8%, 5%, so maybe it's 3 billion, maybe it's 5 billion, these are ballpark guesses. I think we're going to see in that ballpark. If it's only a billion dollars, I'll be thrilled.

哦，那就让我来解释一下吧。马克·波托斯蒂克把这个问题提交给了特拉华最高法院。对了，关于费用的问题很快解决一下。我想说的是，通常在数额比较小的情况下，报酬金是三分之一。我刚在X上发布了一篇回复别人的文章，里面提到在大额案件中，例如数十亿美元的赔偿，报酬金可能会降到15%左右。所以我猜测可能是10%、8%、5%，也可能是30亿美元或50亿美元，这只是一个粗略的估计。如果只是10亿美元的话，我会非常高兴。

So Mark Potostik brings up to the Delaware Supreme Court. I don't think Tesla is going to appeal this decision. The reason I don't think they're going to appeal this decision is because the length of time it would take the appeal to be resolved is probably a year or longer and they want to resolve Elon's compensation package quicker than that. They want to resolve his not only his past compensation package, but his future compensation package and waiting over a year for a result from an appeal sport and then the probably of winning the appeal objectively, like I don't like the decision, I want to say that the that the appeals court would rule in our favor, but objectively, I would say, you know, probably less than one third of appeals win. So you could say, well, we should win this one. Yeah, but everybody who appeals thinks they're going to win. So your probability of winning the appeal is about 33%. And it's going to take you a year or two to get it resolved. Just fix it. Just fix the compensation package and move forward.

马克·波托斯迪克在特斯拉案中提到了特拉华州最高法院。我认为特斯拉不会对此决定提出上诉。我之所以认为他们不会上诉，是因为上诉程序需要花费大约一年或更长时间来解决，而他们想更快地解决埃隆的薪酬计划。他们想解决不仅是他过去的薪酬计划，还有他未来的薪酬计划，而等上诉结果需要一年以上的时间，而且上诉的胜算也只有大概三分之一。虽然我不喜欢这个决定，但客观来说，上诉法院会偏向我们的可能性比较小。你可以说，我们应该会赢这个案子。是的，但是每个上诉者都认为自己会赢。所以你赢得上诉的概率只有大约33%。而且解决上诉需要一两年的时间。就解决它，解决好薪酬计划，继续前进吧。

Now, can you do a retroactive compensation package? I think so. I think if you inform the shareholders and the shareholders vote for it fine. Yeah, I'm not selling any shares. Evan says, I don't know if you touched on it at all yet, but if you do not know, what would it entail to incorporate in a different state like Texas? I don't think it's very hard to reincorporate in Texas. I don't know that there's that much to be gained by it. I don't know if I mean, Elon knows more about this than I do when he talked about incorporating in Nevada or Texas. So I think there's a chance they will incorporate in Nevada or Texas. I think Delaware, there's been some criticism of Delaware up in the past, and there may be a decision to reincorporate in Texas. I don't know. I don't know enough about that. I suspect that whatever state you're in, there's class action lawsuits and judges who make decisions you won't like. Wherever you go, you're going to find judges who make decisions you don't like.

现在，你能做一个追溯性的补偿计划吗？我觉得可以。我觉得如果你通知股东，并且股东投票通过，那就可以了。是的，我不会卖掉任何一股。埃文说，我不知道你是否已经提到过，但如果你不知道的话，要在德克萨斯州这样一个不同的州进行公司注册需要什么步骤？我觉得在德克萨斯州重新注册不是很难。我觉得这样做可能没有太大的收益。我不知道，也许埃隆在谈到注册在内华达州或德克萨斯州时更了解这个问题。所以我认为他们有可能会在内华达州或德克萨斯州重新注册。我不知道。我对此了解不足。我怀疑无论在哪个州，都会有集体诉讼和法官做出你不喜欢的决定。无论你去哪里，你都会发现法官做出你不喜欢的决定。

Do Elon's on exercise options get subtracted by dilution right away though? I think they do. I think that I think the options just go away. He doesn't have the options anymore. Just vanish. I don't think he exercised any of the options from this package. I could be wrong about that. I don't know if he exercised any options from this particular options package. I thought he had a five-year hold and I don't know if I don't know if we got through five years yet. I think the options that he exercised recently were from the previous compensation package, but I could be wrong.

埃隆（Elon）的股票期权是否立即因稀释而被减少？我认为应该是的。我认为这些期权只是消失了。他不再拥有这些期权。就像消失了一样。我不认为他行使了这个套餐中的任何期权。对此我可能记错了。我不知道他是否行使了这个特定期权套餐中的任何期权。我记得他有一个五年的等待期，但我不知道我们是否已经度过了五年。我认为他最近行使的期权是来自之前的报酬方案，但我可能记错了。

But why does Tesla have to pay five billion dollars in lawyer fees when the lawyers did not try the case on behalf of Tesla? They tried the case on behalf of Tesla shareholders and the plaintiff's won and they get compensated. Part of the legal remedy for this case is that the defendants have to pay the plaintiff's lawyer fees. That's the class action contingency system we have in a lot of America.

为什么特斯拉要支付五十亿美元的律师费，当律师并不是代表特斯拉进行辩护呢？他们代表特斯拉的股东进行了辩护，而原告方胜诉并获得补偿。对于此案的一部分法律补救措施是被告必须支付原告方的律师费。这是美国很多地方采用的集体诉讼条件费制度。

What does this anything? What does any of this have to do with Travis and Taylor? Yeah, I don't know if Travis, Kelsey or Taylor Swift, own any Tesla stock or if they were unhappy with the compensation package. I personally think that Taylor Swift is overcompensated and I think Travis Kelsey's pay package is probably fair. But I think Taylor Swift might be overpaid and I think she should have to give some of her money back. I don't think that lawyer is about being a tax haven.

这一切和特拉维斯和泰勒有什么关系？嗯，我不知道特拉维斯、凯尔西或泰勒·斯威夫特是否拥有任何特斯拉股票，或者他们是否对报酬方案不满意。我个人认为泰勒·斯威夫特得到的补偿过多，而特拉维斯·凯尔西的薪酬包可能是公平的。但我认为泰勒·斯威夫特可能被过度支付了，她应该退还一部分钱。我认为这位律师与避税天堂无关。

Have I traveled to Taiwan ever? I have not made it to Taiwan yet. I think there's a chance I will travel to Taiwan in the next couple years. Is there any chance Tesla will be divided under X? I don't think Tesla will be divided. I think there's a chance that Elon will, I think there's a small chance that Elon will decide not to be CEO of Tesla anymore. He will remain something like chief product officer. He will reduce his time commitment to Tesla. He will spend more time at XAI and he will recruit engineers from Tesla to come work at to at XAI. And AGI will be developed at XAI rather than at Tesla and there will be Tesla will still have a 10x to 50x or more growth as a result of Optimus and Robo Taxi. But the AGI upside that a lot of us have been thinking about might happen at Tesla might be more likely to happen at XAI where Elon would have the control he wants and he would have a much greater share of the ownership which will allow him to fund the Mars colony which is why I'm I got more excited about Elon funding the Mars colony. They have my own money. Would Elon take a cash and not stocks as pay and get a lump sum of say 10 billion dollars and like a billion or two a year going forward? I think Elon wants to be compensated in stock or stock options. I think he would because Elon believes that the company is going to grow and so the cost of the stock options to Tesla are lower than the value that he in on derives from it. I suppose they could pay him cash. That might make sense. I don't know. Mark Potashni says I don't feel like I won. Yeah. So in theory the shareholders won. I think in practical reality the shareholders lost. Now did we lose a lot? Well if we lose five billion dollars in the plain of legal fees and that's about what we lost then we lost about one percent of the value of Tesla and that's jump change. I mean it's a big deal but it's not that big of a deal and it is an incentive for more class action lawsuits against more corporations which is detrimental to the functioning of the US economy and I don't think that's a good thing. Matthew Herges says we might have just give him a salary. Now I don't think Elon wants a salary. I don't think he wants the cash. I think he wants stock. He wants control of the company. The judge was a warlone. You mean a vogon? I don't know what you mean. Evan says he didn't exercise any options from this package. I believe that but is correct. I think it was a five year hold but I don't think the five years was up before the lawsuit was filed. So I think any options he exercised were from the previous compensation package from 2012.

我去过台湾吗？我还没有去过台湾。我认为未来几年内我有可能会去台湾旅行。有没有可能特斯拉会被分拆？我不认为特斯拉会被分拆。我认为有可能伊隆会决定不再担任特斯拉的CEO，但他可能会留任为首席产品官。他将减少对特斯拉的时间投入，更多地投入到XAI（人工智能解释器）并招募特斯拉的工程师前往XAI工作。AGI（人工通用智能）将在XAI而非特斯拉开发，特斯拉由于Optimus和Robo Taxi的原因仍将有10倍至50倍以上的增长。但我们一直在思考的AGI上升潜力可能更有可能出现在有伊隆掌控的XAI，他将拥有更大比例的所有权，这将使他能够为火星殖民地提供资金，这也是为什么我对伊隆资助火星殖民地更感兴奋。会不会伊隆选择现金而非股票作为报酬，获得100亿美元的一次性支付和每年10到20亿美元的继续支付？我认为伊隆希望以股票或期权作为报酬。他这么做是因为他相信公司会增长，所以特斯拉支付的股票期权成本低于他从中获得的价值。他们也可以用现金支付他。这也许是有道理的，我不清楚。马克·波塔斯尼（Mark Potashni）说：“我觉得我没有赢。”对，理论上股东赢了。但在实际情况下，股东是输了。那我们失去很多吗？如果我们在法律费用上损失50亿美元（约合人民币32.5亿元），那就是我们失去的大约1%特斯拉的价值，这虽然很可观，但也不至于太大。现在这也成为了更多针对其他公司的集体诉讼的动力，这对美国经济的运作是有害的，我认为这不是一件好事。马修·赫吉斯（Matthew Herges）说：“我们也许应该给他一份薪水。”现在，我认为伊隆不想要薪水。我不认为他想要现金。我认为他想要股票，他想要掌控公司。法官是个乌龙。你是说沃冈星人？我不知道你指的是什么。埃文（Evan）说他并没有行使此套餐中的任何期权。我相信这是正确的，我认为这是一个五年冻结期，但在诉讼被提起之前，这五年并没有结束。所以我认为他行使的任何期权都是来自2012年的之前的报酬计划。

So I think I'm answering the questions. Am I answering the questions? Five billion is the cost of a factory should not be paying that in fees. Yeah I know we don't like that. Burnett Chang why not come Taiwan this time you're in Thailand already. I do expect like I expecting to live in Thailand or somewhere else in Asia long term and I expect to travel travel from Bangkok to other places like Thailand is cheap so I will probably travel to Taiwan at some point. I don't have a particular desire to travel to mainland China but I keep hearing a lot of good things about Taiwan. So I bet the Chinese food is good and I like Chinese food. So dim sum and chew my I'm sure there's a lot of good stuff. I got to talk to Tesla Joy I think she goes there a lot.

所以我认为我正在回答问题。我正在回答问题吗？五十亿是一个工厂的成本，不应该用来支付费用。是的，我知道我们不喜欢那样。Burnett Chang，为什么不这次来台湾呢？你已经在泰国了。我希望以后能在泰国或亚洲其他地方长期居住，并计划从曼谷到其他地方旅行，因为在泰国旅行很便宜，所以我可能会去台湾旅行。我没有特别想去中国大陆的愿望，但我一直听到很多关于台湾的好事。所以我敢打赌中国菜应该很好吃，而我喜欢中国菜。所以点心和咀嚼，我相信有很多好吃的东西。我得和特斯拉乔伊交谈，我想她经常去那里。

What if any okay so this comes up a lot. Mark Klott warned what if any does Elon have civil case against the judge. There's no lawsuit against the judge. Judges are protected by absolute immunity and any lawsuit against the plaintiff's law firm or the plaintiff himself. That's part of the lawsuit we just had. You don't have you don't sue over somebody who beat you in a lawsuit. That's not the way it works. I think the concept is called finality but I'm not sure. Do you believe that if they did appeal how long do you think that he would run for? I think an appeal would take more than a year and I think there's only a ballpark 33% chance of success maybe less than that. Since Elon is signaled he may live Tesla Tesla needs to protect itself and maybe play a hard ball with Elon over these compensation shares. If Tesla plays hard ball with Elon over compensation then Elon is more likely to leave. I think you have to ask yourself the question what is the goal. If the goal is to negotiate the most aggressive as aggressively as possible with Elon to minimize his compensation and Elon says well if you guys don't think I'm worth it I'll just stop working at Tesla. I don't think that's what you're going to want. I don't think I though I think the idea that the judge thinks that there should have been aggressive negotiations with Elon misunderstands the role that Elon plays in the company and how people feel about him and how shareholders feel about him. Hopper says I thought you were going to live in Japan I guess I missed a note. I was in Japan I did finally get approved for a visa shortly before. I had to leave Japan after 90 days and then like the 88th day they told me were approved for a visa and I had already booked my travel and I didn't have to start the visa right away so I decided to travel and then after I traveled I decided I think I'd rather I really do like Japan a lot but I think I'm more likely to find what I'm looking for in Thailand or Malaysia or the Philippines. And in particular for those who don't know I have a girlfriend now from Thailand and that's one of the fundamental things I was looking for and I think I found what I'm looking for although it's early yet we've only known each other for a month. Matthew heard just as I'd say give him salary and you can use that say 20 million. I don't know if a salary of 20 billion dollars would be acceptable to a judge either or the shareholders would approve that I don't know.

如果有的话，凯好，这是一个经常出现的问题。马克·克洛特警告说，如果有的话，埃隆能对法官提起民事诉讼吗？现在没有针对法官的诉讼。法官享有绝对豁免权，任何对原告律所或原告本人的诉讼也都无效，这是我们刚刚经历的一场诉讼的一部分。你不会对在诉讼中打败你的人提起诉讼，这不是工作方式。我想这个概念叫作终局性，但我不确定。你认为如果他们上诉的话，持续时间会有多长？我认为上诉需要一年以上的时间，而且成功的机会只有大概33%甚至更低。由于埃隆表示可能离开特斯拉，特斯拉需要保护自己，也许应该对埃隆在这些报酬股份上采取强硬态度。如果特斯拉对埃隆采取强硬态度以争取报酬，那么埃隆更有可能离开。我认为你必须问自己一个问题，那就是目标是什么。如果目标是在与埃隆谈判时尽可能地侵略性地减少他的报酬，而埃隆说：“如果你们认为我不值得，我就不再在特斯拉工作了。”我不认为这是你想要的。我不认为... though I think the idea that the judge thinks that there should have been aggressive negotiations with Elon misunderstands the role that Elon plays in the company and how people feel about him and how shareholders feel about him. Hopper says I thought you were going to live in Japan I guess I missed a note. I was in Japan I did finally get approved for a visa shortly before. I had to leave Japan after 90 days and then like the 88th day they told me were approved for a visa and I had already booked my travel and I didn't have to start the visa right away so I decided to travel and then after I traveled I decided I think I'd rather I really do like Japan a lot but I think I'm more likely to find what I'm looking for in Thailand or Malaysia or the Philippines. And in particular for those who don't know I have a girlfriend now from Thailand and that's one of the fundamental things I was looking for and I think I found what I'm looking for although it's early yet we've only known each other for a month. Matthew heard just as I'd say give him salary and you can use that say 20 million. I don't know if a salary of 20 billion dollars would be acceptable to a judge either or the shareholders would approve that I don't know.

Will the five billion dollars come from Tesla's cash pile as in one-time payment? Probably I think there's a good chance that they will have to pay somewhere in the ballpark of three to five billion. I mean I'm hoping that the judge holds their legal fees to more like a billion dollars but yeah I think Tesla's gonna have to pay that out of their cash pile.

这五十亿美元将会从特斯拉的现金储备中作为一次性支付吗？我认为有很大的可能他们将不得不支付大约三到五十亿美元的金额。我的意思是，我希望法官能够将他们的法律费用限制在十亿美元左右，但我认为特斯拉将不得不从他们的现金储备中支付这笔费用。

No more Twitter like dealings are be required to step aside and just consult. So I think there's this sense that and then this is something the judge said that and I thought this was irrelevant. I think the word might be extraneous. The judges bringing up facts that are completely irrelevant to the decision like well after the pay package was awarded, Elon bought Twitter. So fucking what? Excuse my French. After the pay package was decided they had the funding secured tweet in the SEC litigation. So what has nothing to do with it and I think the purpose of the judge saying it was it show that the board doesn't control Elon and none of us thought that the board controlled Elon in the first place and none of us wants the board to control Elon. We want Elon to control Tesla and I'd just be clear there was a critical distinction that I think the judge missed or deliberately missed which is yes Elon controls the company and we want him to control the company because he's an awesome CEO when we love the way he controls the company but no he did not control the transaction. That is a major disagreement I have with the judge.

不再需要像Twitter那样的交易来退让并仅仅提供咨询意见。所以我认为有这样一种感觉，法官也说了这个观点，但我认为这是无关紧要的。我认为这个词可能是多余的。法官提出了完全与决定无关的事实，比如，在给予薪酬后，埃隆购买了Twitter。那又怎么样？请原谅我说了这么粗鲁的话。在决定给予薪酬之后，他在美国证券交易委员会的诉讼中发布了有关确保资金的推文。那又怎么样，这与此无关，我认为法官提到的目的是要表明董事会无法控制埃隆，而我们当中没有人认为董事会能够控制埃隆，也没有人希望董事会控制埃隆。我们希望埃隆控制特斯拉，我想要明确的是，这是一个关键的区别，我认为法官忽视了或故意忽视的问题，那就是是的，埃隆控制着公司，我们希望他能够控制公司，因为他是一位很棒的首席执行官，我们喜欢他掌控公司的方式，但是不，他并没有控制交易。这是我对法官的主要异议。

Brian Keck did Elon pay taxes on his compensation plan? I don't know I don't think so. I think the taxes it's possible Tesla paid some taxes on it. I think there were some taxes paid on the award of options but the real taxes come when he exercises the options.

布赖恩·凯克问埃隆是否向他的薪酬计划缴纳了税款？我不知道，但我不认为缴纳了。我认为特斯拉可能会为此缴纳一些税款。我想在获得期权奖励时可能会缴纳一些税款，但真正的税款是在他行使期权时产生。

Mark says corrupt. it. I don't want to say the judge is corrupt. I would go more. I think it's easier for me to accept that the judge is misguided or biased without being corrupt.

马克表示这是腐败的。我不想说法官是腐败的。我更倾向于认为法官可能是误导或偏见，而不是腐败。

Was any of the $55 million, $55 billion already claimed in text. I believe the value of the compensation package at the time it was awarded was somewhere in the ballpark of $2.3 billion so there may have been some taxes paid along the way as the tranches were awarded to Elon.

已经有5500万、550亿中任意一笔款项被索取了吗？我认为，当这笔补偿方案被授予时，其价值大约为23亿美元，因此在授予埃隆时可能已经支付了一些税款。

I see I don't see it as a Democratic hitch. I'm not saying that the judge isn't partisan in some way. I thought the judge the judge bringing up the Twitter transaction and this idea that Elon I think the judge has this perception that Elon was not faithful to Tesla because he was busy with Twitter and because he did the funding secured post tweet whatever. Yeah and I think that those were irrelevant extraneous in a sign of the judge demonstrating her bias against Elon and people can be biased against it. There are Republicans who are biased against Elon. It doesn't have to be Democrat bias. I'm not saying it's not Democrat bias. I'm just saying there's lots of people. I just had dinner. I went to a tie class tonight and one of the guys there is British just hates Elon. Like I told him like you know there's this thing happen. He says was it bad in his free lunch? Yeah he says oh that's great and he was just like hardened like hates Elon just absolutely hates Elon and I'm like well you know you have this view of Elon that's very negative. Is your view falsifiable? And he's like that sounds like a word Elon would use. Like no that's a word a scientist would use. So I think this guy is generally a nice guy and he's interesting but when it comes to Elon he's just a fucking moron. He's not he's not when if you're not open to the possibility that you're wrong then you're not giving like what does Elon say we're always wrong we should strive to be less wrong. Well is it possible that you're wrong? Right you know and basically the guys like no well if you think it's not possible that you're wrong then you might be an idiot on the subject that we're talking about doesn't mean he's an idiot overall but on that subject and he's a generally nice guy and pleasant and he's fascinating to learn tie with and so on but head up his ass when it comes to Elon.

我明白，我并不认为这是民主的问题。我并不是说那位法官在某种程度上不偏袒一方。我认为法官提到Twitter交易和这个想法表明了她对Elon不忠于特斯拉的偏见，因为他忙于Twitter，因为他发布了有关融资安全的推文。是的，我认为那些都是不相关的附加信息，是法官展示对Elon的偏见的迹象，人们可能对他有偏见。有些共和党人对Elon有偏见，这不一定是民主党的偏见。我并不是说这里没有民主党的偏见，我只是说有很多人。我刚吃完晚饭。我今晚去上泰拳课，其中一个人是英国人，他特别讨厌Elon。我告诉他有件事发生了，他问那是不是没有免费午餐，然后他就像恨透了Elon一样。我告诉他你对Elon有非常负面的看法，你的看法是可证伪的吗？他说听起来像是Elon会用的词，我说不，这是科学家会用的词。所以我觉得这个人一般来说是个好人，很有趣，但是当涉及到Elon的时候，他就是个该死的白痴。他不给自己留下可能是错误的可能性，那就说明他在我们谈论的这个问题上可能是个白痴，这并不意味着他整体都是个白痴，但在这个问题上他就是个白痴，他一般都还挺好的，很愉快，跟他一起学泰拳也很有意思，但一提到Elon他就为难。

No so what the stock that he sold to buy X was not from the options package that came from this award.

所以，他卖出来购买X的股票并不是来自这个奖励的期权套餐。

I don't mark plot is saying war and unseated judge I don't know what unseated judge means mark I don't know what you mean by unseated the judge is probably a point I don't know how judges get assigned to their job in Delaware I'm assuming that they get appointed by the governor or something like that I don't know that they're elected and there's not you know the judge didn't commit a crime I mean like I'd why would the judge be unseated the fact that some people don't like the decision every judge every time a judge makes a decision half the people involved don't like it right we don't the fact that we don't like the decision doesn't mean that the judge is inherently corrupt because if the judges ruled in our favor does that mean the other side would think that the judge is corrupt?

我不明白“unseated judge”是什么意思，一开始并不理解剧情，马克。我猜想在特拉华州，法官会被州长任命或者类似的方式指派，我并不知道他们是否通过选举产生，也不知道是否存在不好的法官。我想说的是，即使法官做出决定后有人不满意，这并不意味着法官就是腐败的。每当法官做出决定时，总有一半的人不会喜欢。所以我们不能仅仅因为不喜欢某个决定就认定法官本质上是腐败的。如果法官支持我们一方，难道另一方会认为这个法官是腐败的吗？

Will, since he says I do believe Elon is a great CEO but providing guidance should likely not be delivered by Elon that's a question um I think it's normal for a CEO to say this is what we're trying to achieve with the company um guidance was typically delivered by Zach Kirkhorn or the CFO rather than the CEO but I don't you know the company says this is what we think we're going to accomplish this year and this is what we're shooting for and I don't think guidance is guidance is like some Wall Street analyst term like I don't give a crap about Tesla's guidance for this is what we think we're going to achieve next year like in terms of like revenue earnings a bit uh profits whatever like tell me what you're gonna what you're trying to accomplish in terms of improving the tech and improving the product and improving um and achieving outsized goals.

威尔，他说我确实相信埃隆是一位伟大的CEO，但是提供指导可能不应该由埃隆来传达，这是一个问题，我认为CEO通常会说这是我们公司所努力实现的目标，指导通常是由扎克·科克霍恩或首席财务官来传达，而不是由CEO来传达，但是不知道，公司说这是我们认为我们今年将要实现的目标，以及我们所追求的目标，我认为指导是类似于华尔街分析师的一个术语，我才不关心特斯拉明年的指导，比如收入、盈利等方面的指导，告诉我你打算在技术改进、产品改进和实现超常目标方面要做什么。

I think we all live in our own bubble about how we perceive Musk only Elon Musk knows Elon Musk and Elon Musk might not even know Elon Musk that well does Walter Isaac send no Elon you just did a biography about him um it has to come from somewhere irrational why would you not like someone like Elon that much so so my theory on why people hate Elon it's funny I was talking it was two British guys I was talking to and one of them just absolutely hates Elon not open to any consideration the other guy was sitting next to me and I was explaining to one of the Thai guys who was sitting with us who speaks English really well I said some people in America and this is probably true in Thailand yet their information from certain media outlets and they trust their media outlets and they buy in large or satisfied with what their media outlet tells them and if their media outlet lies to them they don't know the media outlet is lying to them then they tend to trust the media outlet and even when they see Elon talks about this you see a media outlet talk about something that in issue that you actually know and understand and you see that they get it wrong and then you read their next article and you assume that they're right about the next article if you see that they're wrong about stuff you understand they're probably wrong about stuff you don't understand

我认为我们都生活在自己的泡泡中，关于我们如何看待马斯克，只有埃隆·马斯克自己知道埃隆·马斯克，甚至埃隆·马斯克自己可能对自己了解也不是很深入。沃尔特·艾萨克森不是做了一部关于他的传记吗？这一切来源于某种非理性，你为什么不那么喜欢埃隆，这个是我对人们为何讨厌埃隆的理论，很有趣，我正在和两个英国人聊天，其中一个绝对不喜欢埃隆，对任何考虑都不开放，另一个人坐在我旁边，我正在向一个懂英语的泰国人解释，我说在美国，这可能也适用于泰国，有些人从特定的媒体获得信息，他们信任这些媒体，并且大体上满意媒体所告诉他们的内容，如果媒体向他们撒谎，他们就不知道媒体在撒谎，然后他们就倾向于相信媒体，即使当他们看到埃隆谈论这个问题时，你看到媒体谈论一个你实际了解和理解的问题时，你发现他们搞错了，然后你读到他们下一篇文章，你就会认为他们在下一篇文章中是正确的，如果你发现他们在一些你理解的事情上是错的，那么他们在你不理解的事情上可能也是错的。

David Villa says before this decision Elon fired a shot across Tesla's bow by threatened to leave over control of the company as a shareholder that did not sit right with me and Tesla needs to protect itself so David Villa when you say I'd love to see your answer to this when you say Tesla needs to protect itself what exactly do you mean do you think Tesla should fire Elon and hire a new CEO what does it mean to protect yourself if your concern is that Elon might leave how the hell do you protect yourself from Elon might leave you know we have the 13th amendment the United States you can't enslave him he can leave whenever he wants if Elon steps down to CEO what's your prediction for Tesla stock price per share in 2030 or 2032 so I don't I think um if Elon steps down as CEO tomorrow I think the stock price falls 50% in a day the long-term impact on Tesla stock price in say 2030 is relatively small but there's some upside from Elon being CEO let's say Tesla develops AGI there's some upside from Tesla developing AGI that we none of us is really modeled that you know it's already a katinex or 50x or more without AGI but with AGI maybe it's even more than that and so there's some upside we lose I don't think there's a whole lot of downside that we gain I don't think there's a lot of you know I the upside in 2030 or 2032 is so high that I'm not worried

大卫·比拉说，在作出这个决定之前，埃隆向特斯拉发出了警告，威胁要离开公司并要求掌控权，这让我感到不舒服。特斯拉需要保护自己。那么大卫·比拉，当你说特斯拉需要保护自己，你具体指的是什么？你认为特斯拉应该开除埃隆并雇佣新的首席执行官吗？保护自己意味着什么？如果你担心埃隆可能离开，如何保护自己免受他离开的影响？你知道，在美国有第13修正案，你不能奴役他，他想走就能走。如果埃隆辞去CEO职务，你对特斯拉股票在2030年或2032年的价格有什么预测？所以，如果埃隆明天辞去CEO职务，我认为股票价格在一天内会下跌50%。对特斯拉股票的长期影响在2030年相对较小，但如果特斯拉开发了人工智能，可能会有一些上涨潜力。我们对特斯拉发展人工智能这一点还没有进行过建模，它在没有人工智能的情况下已经增长了50倍甚至更多，但有了人工智能，这个数字可能会更高。所以我们会失去一些上涨潜力，但我不认为有太多下降风险。在2030年或2032年，上涨潜力如此之高，以至于我不担心。

Shamski says hey Warner you're still buying shares are done with increasing your stack I don't have free cash to allocate to buying stock I did acquire some cash last year and I did put half of it into buying stock and I held half or unanticipated and anticipated expenses moving forward with my new life living in Asia um and they appeal they can appeal I think the appeal would take too long to be productive and the probability of success is only about 33% and appeals in general um

尚斯基说嗨，沃纳，你还在买股票吗？你已经增加了你的持股量，我没有空闲资金用于购买股票。去年我确实得到了一些现金，我将其中一半用于购买股票，另一半留作未预料的和预料的未来生活在亚洲的支出。关于上诉，我认为上诉需要太长时间才能产生效果并且成功的概率只有大约33%。总体而言，上诉并不可取。

the arrow says Elon must have some of the best business lawyers in the world with that said what do you think his best legal recall is or I think read option is so apparently his business lawyers aren't that great because they lost this case and if you read the judge decision she starts talks about a bunch of things that Tesla failed to prove which are things that Tesla's lawyers failed to prove so I don't know if his lawyers are that great um you know Elon's really smart but he may not be smart about hiring lawyers maybe he doesn't hire the best I don't know about his judgment about hiring lawyers I'm not saying I'd be better at hiring lawyers I'm just saying you know maybe his lawyer hiring isn't that great what is it saying a good lawyer knows the law a great lawyer knows the judge and the board of directors increase Elon's compensation more than 56 billion dollars billions off

这段话表达了对埃隆马斯克拥有世界上最好的商业律师的看法。作者提出了一个问题，即埃隆最出色的法律策略是什么，或者作者认为，埃隆效仿阅读的方法并不是很好，因为他的商业律师们输掉了这个案件。如果你看过法官的判决，你会发现她提到了特斯拉没有能够证明的一些事情，而这些也正是特斯拉的律师们没能证明的事情。所以我不知道他的律师们是否那么出色。你知道，埃隆很聪明，但他可能在雇佣律师方面不那么聪明，也许他并没有聘请最好的律师。对于他雇佣律师的判断，我不了解。我并不是说我会更擅长雇佣律师，我只是说，也许他的律师选择并不是很出色。其中有一句话说，一个好的律师知道法律，而一个伟大的律师则了解法官和董事会。埃隆的薪酬增加了超过560亿美元，数以十亿计。

I believe that the board here's what I think is going to happen the board of directors is going to meet they're going to spend three to six two to three months deciding on a compensation package to make up for what was lost a retroactive compensation package they will submit that to a shareholder vote if the shareholders vote yes they will probably cross the T's and dot the I's of the judge says that they missed um and submit that to a shareholder vote and if the shareholders vote yes it's good um Tesla needs to lock Elon down more and work criteria to prevent him leaving into the new compensate okay David the more you put in the more restrictions you put on Elon and how he has to do what what you want him to do with Tesla the more likely he is to leave do you want Elon to stay or do you want Elon to go if you want Elon to go try to restrict him okay you decide and I'm going to be very clear I want Elon to stay I want Elon spend as much time at Tesla as possible because I'm a Tesla shareholder I want to spend time at SpaceX because I'm rooting for SpaceX I want him involved in other things but I do not want Elon to go and if you are saying or let him leave well then you are not a typical Tesla shareholder we want him staying if you think that Tesla will be fine without Elon and everything's going to be okay and hunky dory and they'll be better off with John Scully a CEO or Gary Black or Ross Gerber is CEO me who the like David Villa you tell me this David Villa who's the replacement CEO for Elon you tell me who the replacement CEO is and I'll tell you how much stock how much Tesla stock falls the day after that CEO is announced and Tesla appeal while simultaneously transferring to Texas or would the appeal have to finish first I'm thinking appeal and transfer to Tesla simultaneously I just think the appeal takes too long I don't think there's any reason I don't think appeal is the right decision I think it takes too long and the probability success is too low the key line would have left Tesla by now he thought there was no future for him there right I think Elon could leave Tesla at any time he has he has a lot of options of places and when I say leave Tesla that doesn't mean he leaves Tesla completely it just means he leaves his CEO mark

我相信董事会会发生以下情况：董事会将会召开会议，他们会花三到六个月时间决定一项补偿计划，以弥补已经损失的部分，这是一项追溯性的补偿计划。他们将把这一计划提交给股东投票，如果股东投票支持，他们可能会进一步完善这一计划并且提交给法官，以确保他们没有遗漏任何细节。如果股东投票通过，那就很好。特斯拉需要更多地限制埃隆的活动，并制定工作准则，防止他离职。好吧，大卫，你限制埃隆的越多，要求他必须按照你的意愿去做，他就越有可能离开。你是想让埃隆留下还是离开？如果你希望埃隆离开，那就试着给他加更多限制吧。你决定吧。我要非常清楚地表达，我希望埃隆留下。我希望埃隆尽可能多地在特斯拉工作，因为我是特斯拉的股东，我希望他花时间在SpaceX上，因为我支持SpaceX。我希望他参与其他事情，但我不希望埃隆离开。如果你认为特斯拉没有埃隆也能过得很好，一切都会好好的，比如让约翰·斯卡利成为CEO或者加里·布莱克或者罗斯·格伯尔成为CEO，告诉我，谁是埃隆的接任者，我会告诉你在接任者宣布的那一天，特斯拉的股票会下跌多少。特斯拉同时会转移到德克萨斯吗，还是得等上诉结束？我觉得上诉和转移特斯拉可以同时进行，我只是认为上诉太耗时，没有必要选择上诉，而且成功的概率太低了。关键是，如果埃隆认为特斯拉没有未来，他早就离开了。我认为埃隆随时可能离开特斯拉，因为他有很多选择。当我说他离开特斯拉，不意味着他完全离开，只是离开CEO职位。

you're saying recall process for the judge I don't know Delaware law I don't believe there's a process for moving the judge and I don't think we would succeed in that process if we try I don't think this is about the judge I think you're making this too much about the judge we have a legal system in America that allows class action lawsuits like this and most other countries don't have that's a decision that was made if you want to fix it we need to elect people who are going to change the class limited class action lawsuits like this and I don't think that Donald Trump's going to do that and I don't think Joe Biden's going to do that so I don't think we have any options to get there

你在说对法官的撤职程序，我不了解特拉华州的法律，我不相信有关移动法官的程序，如果我们尝试的话，我也不认为我们能在那个程序上成功。我认为这不是关于法官的问题，我觉得你把这个问题太过于强调法官了。在美国，我们有一个允许进行集体诉讼的法律体系，而大多数其他国家没有这样的机制，这是一个已经做出的决定。如果你想解决这个问题，我们需要选举那些会改变这种集体诉讼限制的人，我不认为唐纳德·特朗普会这么做，我也不认为乔·拜登会这么做，所以我认为我们没有办法去实现那个目标。

Elon replied to warn on X when did he reply to me um oh I got to look at this now can you line reply to me did you line reply to me today uh he replied to me I haven't seen it yet I don't think he replied to me I don't know what you're talking about sorry when did he reply to me mark um um lost Gerber lost Gerber I want he let us say but I want the stock price to drop to $100 please how many shares I need to hold a vote in this vote I think any shareholder can vote in the vote um very like is starting to get oh very glad is not starting to get Tesla he just fakes it better sometimes

埃隆回答警告X时，他何时回复我，呃，我得看看现在能不能给我回个简信，你能回个简信给我吗？你今天回了我的简信吗？呃，他回过我了，我还没看到，我不认为他回过我，我不知道你在说什么，抱歉，马克，他什么时候回过我呢，呃，呃 Gerber丢了，Gerber丢了，我想说，但我希望股价能降到100美元，请问我需要持有多少股票才能在此投票中发表意见？我认为任何股东都可以在此投票中发表意见，呃，非常喜欢的事情开始变得不一样了，很高兴他现在没有开始挑衅特斯拉，他有时候只是假装做得更好。

Elon's comment regarding possible departure I didn't like either the answers to happen announced qualified backup that would calm shareholders and even long-term shareholder okay again tell me will anybody who thinks Elon you want Elon to leave or you want a backup plan tell me who you want to be the uh the announced qualified backup who is who the fuck is qualified to back up to be the backup CEO what do I think of Tom Joo as a potential successor after Elon I don't know enough about Tom Joo and either to you none of us knows that much about Tom Joo I think Drew Baglino is the best choice I think Kimball must be a great choice um I personally think Drew Baglino is the obvious successor as CEO of Tesla that's what I think but but if Elon if Elon left and Drew Baglino became CEO as much as I loved Drew stock would fall 50% in a day and I think Drew's fantastic I love Drew I think Drew Baglino is the best choice to replace Elon

埃隆关于可能离职的评论，我也不喜欢得到的答案，即便有一个宣布的合格备份人选会让股东和长期股东安心，再告诉我，有谁认为你希望埃隆离开或者希望有备份计划的，请告诉我你希望成为一个宣布的合格备份人选的是谁，他到底有资格成为备份首席执行官，我对于汤姆·朱作为埃隆的潜在接班人不了解，你们也对汤姆·朱了解有限，我认为德鲁·巴利尼奥是最佳选择，我认为金伯尔也是个很好的选择，我个人认为德鲁·巴利尼奥是特斯拉明显的首席执行官接替人选，这就是我的想法，但是如果埃隆离开，德鲁·巴利尼奥成为首席执行官，尽管我很喜欢德鲁，股票会在一天内下跌50%，我觉得德鲁是很棒的，我很喜欢德鲁·巴利尼奥，我认为他是替代埃隆的最佳选择。

David Villa did you answer my question you say a new CEO I don't think David Villa answered my question David Villa you're talking shit I asked you a simple question who's the replacement CEO stop bullshitting and saying a new CEO maybe better like stop bullshitting tell me who the new CEO is tell me who's a better CEO than Elon you're just this is total bullshit if you think there's a better CEO than Elon tell me who it is Grimes yeah Grimes gonna be the next CEO fucking a it's ridiculous and did Elon know about the ruling beforehand and asking for 25% control reason I think that probably that um look I guessed that the court was going to rule against the pay package because it took so long ruling in favor of the pay package doesn't take as long as ruling against it so um it's probable that Elon's lawyer said hey this is taking long enough we think we're gonna lose but I don't think that anything do with Elon asking for 25% control and I don't think Elon was serious about 25% I think 25% might have been a negotiating position and I you know honestly like I love Elon but you sold stock to buy X this is one of the consequences that you own less of a of a Tesla same judge made Elon by Twitter that is true it's the same judge who complained that Elon bought Twitter is the judge that forced Elon to buy Twitter I love it um

大卫·比利亚，你回答了我的问题吗？你说有一个新的首席执行官，我不认为大卫·比利亚回答了我的问题。大卫·比利亚，你在胡扯。我问了你一个简单的问题：谁是替代首席执行官？别再胡扯，告诉我新的首席执行官是谁，告诉我谁能比埃隆更好的担任首席执行官。如果你认为有比埃隆更好的首席执行官，那完全是胡说八道。告诉我他是谁。格莱姆斯可能会成为下一任首席执行官，真是荒谬。埃隆在事先知道这个裁决吗？并且要求控制25%的原因。我认为可能是因为这个法庭审判持续的时间较长，所以我猜测法庭会裁定不支持薪酬计划。裁定支持薪酬计划不需要那么长时间。所以埃隆的律师可能说：“嘿，这个时间够长了，我们觉得我们会输。”但我不认为这与埃隆要求控制25%有任何关系，我也不认为埃隆认真要求控制25%。我觉得控制25%可能只是谈判的一个立场。说实话，我爱埃隆，但你出售股票购买X，这就是你在特斯拉拥有更少股份的结果。说到一个同样的法官让埃隆通过Twitter购买的问题，这是真的。埃隆购买Twitter的法官就是强迫埃隆购买Twitter的法官。我喜欢这点。

do I still sell the Drew Bagelino fan club t-shirt I don't even know if it's still on the on the shop David Villa I'm not qualified to picky CEO and I don't even know all the options available but there are people at Tesla who are David you claim to be qualified to say that Elon should leave the CEO if you think you're qualified to say he should lead to CEO then step up to the fucking plate and tell me who you think should replace him if you can't name a replacement why do you think somebody else can name a replacement that the people at Tesla don't want a new CEO you think there are people at Tesla who know who's good to be seen those people want Elon to be the fucking CEO so if you think Elon shouldn't be CEO you come up and tell me

我还在卖Drew Bagelino粉丝俱乐部的T恤吗？我甚至不知道它是否还在商店里。 David Villa，我没有资格挑剔的CEO，我甚至不知道所有的选择，但特斯拉有人知道。David，你声称有资格说埃隆应该离开CEO职位，如果你认为有资格说他应该担任首席执行官，那就勇敢站出来告诉我你认为谁应该接替他。如果你不能提出替换者的名字，为什么你认为其他人可以提出替换者？特斯拉的员工不希望有新的CEO，你觉得特斯拉的员工谁知道谁适合接任，这些人都希望埃隆继续担任首席执行官。所以，如果你认为埃隆不应该担任CEO，你就站出来告诉我。

goble says sorry but Kimball is not very sorry he's a super nice guy but not a good CEO or entrepreneur um I think Kimball knows the company better than anybody else and he gets along with everybody and as a CEO not running the tech but managing people I think he's actually pretty good I don't think he's my he's not my choice my choice would be Drew Baglino

戈布尔表示道歉，但金博尔并不十分抱歉。他是一个非常友善的人，但并不是一个优秀的首席执行官或企业家。我认为金博尔比任何人都更了解公司，并且与每个人相处得很好。作为一名首席执行官，他并不直接负责技术，但在管理人员方面，我认为他实际上做得很不错。但我不认为他是我的选择，我的选择会是德鲁·巴格里诺。

but did the plaintiff gain any money out of this I believe that the class action law firm is going to get like five billion dollars in legal fees maybe it's a billion maybe it's three billion it's a big chunk of money

但是原告从中获得了任何金钱吗？我相信这家集体诉讼律师事务所可能会获得五十亿美元的法律费用，也许是十亿，也许是三十亿，总之这是一大笔钱。

oh Peter Rawlinson that's right they should appoint Peter Rawlinson as CEO a new and better CEO to Musk is like saying a new better quarterback to Tom Brady no no Elon is Tom Brady is great but Elon you know Aaron Rodgers there's plenty of quarterbacks who are almost as good as Tom Brady there's no CEOs who are almost as good as Elon.

噢，彼得·罗林森，没错，他们应该任命彼得·罗林森为首席执行官，他是一位新的更好的首席执行官，就像对汤姆·布雷迪说一位新的更好的四分卫一样。不不，伊隆就像汤姆·布雷迪，非常出色，但你知道亚伦·罗杰斯，有很多四分卫几乎和汤姆·布雷迪一样出色，但没有哪位首席执行官几乎能和伊隆一样好。

Drew Baglino should be the new CEO if Elon doesn't want it I think Baglino is the clear choice I think people who don't follow Tesla closely enough don't realize the extent to which Drew is familiar with the entire company yeah just everybody who says Tesla needs a new CEO will never stop up at the plate and say who should be the new CEO you're all full of shit you think that we with that Tesla needs a new CEO tell me who the fuck it should be

如果埃隆不想担任，我认为德鲁·巴格里诺应该成为新任CEO。我认为巴格里诺是清晰的选择。我认为那些不够关注特斯拉的人没有意识到德鲁对整个公司的熟悉程度。是的，就是每个说特斯拉需要新任CEO的人，没有人敢站出来说应该由谁来担任新任CEO。你们都在胡说八道，你们认为特斯拉需要新任CEO，告诉我该由谁来担任吧！

and this judge like like do you think this judge is doing favors to Tesla shareholders Jesus Christ that this is the thing like the judge is supposed to be act the the plaintiff's lawyers the class action lawyers are supposedly acting in the interests of the shareholders so the coppers as the dude had nine shares the dude is a representative of the class of shareholders who were negatively affected by the pay package supposedly right so the question is did this benefit their shareholders did the did this lawsuit benefit Tesla shareholders did the judges defendant decision benefit Tesla shareholders now on paper the Tesla shareholders get back fifty five billion dollars worth of Tesla stock it's it's the biggest buyback in Tesla history

这位法官是不是在给特斯拉股东开小差？天哪，这事就像是法官应该代表原告律师，类集体诉讼律师应该代表股东的利益。所以这个人就像是拥有9股特斯拉的经纪人，代表着那些受到这个薪酬计划影响而遭受损失的股东群体。那么问题就是，这个诉讼是否对特斯拉股东有利？法官的被告决定是否对特斯拉股东有利？从文件上看，特斯拉股东将获得价值550亿美元的特斯拉股票，这是特斯拉历史上规模最大的回购。

what about Lutz oh Bob Lutz or Jeff Lutz Jeff Lutz will be okay feeling like Elon needs to go his greed is out of control i've made all my money in Tesla but i'm done i think he's gone crazy

卢中怎么样呢，哦，是说鲍勃·卢茨还是杰夫·卢茨？杰夫·卢茨还好，感觉伊隆应该离开了，他的贪婪已经失控了。虽然我已经在特斯拉赚了很多钱，但是我现在厌倦了，我认为他变得疯狂了。

okay four seven two water here's another ass hat who says that Elon needs to go tell me who replaces him tell me who's going to replace Elon that's going to help

好的，四七二，这里有另一个胡说八道的人，说埃隆需要离开，告诉我谁能取代他，告诉我谁将会取代埃隆来帮助。

William PMCD says with regrets the profanity does not improve your argument yeah you're probably correct you know sometimes they just get angry and it comes out it's not like it's a conscious thing

威廉PMCD表示遗憾地说，粗言秽语并不能提升你的论点。是的，你可能是正确的。有时人们只是生气时言辞不当，而并非故意这样做。

Viva Swami Tesla CEO you mean Vivek mean the guy who just ran for Rama Swami or whatever the guy ran for president god no give Elon whatever he wants he's the heart of Tesla and generates amazing ideas and products yeah i mean i think the thing people don't realize like look at this what what was Tesla's mission what is Tesla stated mission it's accelerate the transition to sustainable energy now Elon has been talking that Tesla is now is not a car company it's an AI and robotics company primarily well AI and robotics is not really accelerating the transition to sustainable energy more and to have a CEO who's able to pivot to AI and robotics and heading towards AGI away from not to say that they're not pursuing robo taxi not to say that they're not pursuing accelerating the transition to sustainable energy but recognizing that optimists might be a 5x uh five times more valuable than anything else Tesla's doing and saying we got to focus on this is important if Elon disappears

瓦娃斯瓦米·特斯拉CEO你是指维韦克，是那个竞选总统的家伙，上帝啊，给伊隆他想要的任何东西，他是特斯拉的核心，产生了令人惊叹的想法和产品，是的，我是说，人们可能没有意识到，看看这个，特斯拉的使命是什么，特斯拉的陈述使命是加速可持续能源的过渡，现在伊隆一直在谈特斯拉现在不是一个汽车公司，它主要是一个人工智能和机器人公司，但是人工智能和机器人并不能真正加速可持续能源的过渡，而有个能够转向人工智能和机器人，朝着超级智能的方向前进的CEO，这并不意味着他们不追求机器人出租车，也不意味着他们不追求加速可持续能源的过渡，而是认识到，乐观主义者可能比特斯拉正在做的任何其他事情都更有价值，于是我们必须专注于这一点，如果伊隆消失的话。

bobbles are should be CEO and we would get you a phone i don't even know who bobbles are is you said yourself Tesla will easily 10 to 20x with FSD and robo taxi alone another CEO can do this i'm not an e-line okay depends on who the other CEO is john scully wouldn't get us 10x to 20x with FSD and robo taxi Gary black would probably shut the FSD and robo taxi program down

Bobbles应该成为首席执行官，我们会给你一个手机，但我甚至不知道Bobbles是谁。你自己说特斯拉凭借FSD和机器人出租车就能轻松增长10到20倍，其他首席执行官可能无法做到这一点。我不是一个完全反对的人，这取决于其他首席执行官是谁。像约翰·斯卡利这样的人不会让我们的FSD和机器人出租车计划增长10到20倍，而加里·布莱克可能会关闭这个计划。

who's who's the CEO he has seemed erratic and unsteady these last people he has always been erratic and unsteady this is not new he was always erratic the guy took all the money he got from paypal and betted on a rocket company and an electric car company this was insanity hmm four seven two waters is do you think he should be given more shares to 25% so we need to dilute our shares by 10% more can you answer that please thank you i think that a compensation package and i've said this publicly before a compensation package that gives e-line a lot of stock based on i had a specific post on this that he gets this many i think it's 20 million shares if they achieve a two trillion dollar market cap

谁是首席执行官，他最近表现得非常不稳定和不可靠。这些人他一直都表现得不稳定和不可靠，这不是新鲜事。他一直都是不稳定的。那个人把从PayPal得到的所有钱都拿去下注了一家火箭公司和一家电动车公司，这实在是疯狂。嗯，四七二个水，你认为他应该再给更多的股份，达到25%。所以我们需要把我们的股份稀释10%。你能回答一下吗？谢谢。我认为一个补偿计划，我之前公开过这个观点，一个给e-line很多股票的补偿计划，我有一个具体的帖子，如果他们达到了两万亿美元的市值，他将获得这么多股票，我想是2千万股。

30 million more shares if they achieve a four trillion dollar market cap 40 million additional shares if they achieved a six trillion dollar market cap 50 million additional shares if they achieve an eight trillion dollar market cap and 60 million shares if they achieve an 10 trillion dollar market cap but that would be 200 million shares and that would get them close to the 25 percent I don't think you could get some all the way to 25 percent but you know if he delivers us a 10 trillion dollar market cap i'm fine with him getting all that And if you're not, then you're not a long-term shareholder

如果他们实现了4万亿美元的市值，将新增3000万股；如果他们实现了6万亿美元的市值，将新增4000万股；如果他们实现了8万亿美元的市值，将新增5000万股；如果他们实现了10万亿美元的市值，将新增6000万股，但这将达到2亿股，接近25％。我不认为他们可以全部达到25％，但是你知道，如果他们实现了10万亿美元的市值，我对他得到全部都没意见。如果你不喜欢，那就说明你不是长期股东。

Hope you're sharing some of the air conditioning. So I figured out the air conditioning a little bit. Still annoying, but it's right here. It doesn't always work the way I want it to. That's the issue. Okay. And the board of directors have a special meeting at the meeting. They come with the special similar package and sent out for a special blow to all shareholders at the same time. Reincorporate in Texas.

希望你能分享一些空调。所以我稍微弄懂了空调的使用方法。虽然有些让人烦恼，但是它就在这里。它不总是按照我的意愿运作，这就是问题所在。好的。董事会在会议上举行了特别会议。他们带来了特别相似的方案，并同时向所有股东发出了一份特别的通告。重新在德克萨斯州注册。

I believe that the board of directors will meet. They will probably meet several times over a two to three month period is my guess. They will figure out a replacement compensation package retroactive to make up for what Elon lost by the judge's decision. And that will go to a shareholder vote. And I think that's unrelated to whether they reincorporated in Texas. Those are two separate things. Do I regret my previous predictions about Tesla given its stock performance in the last three years? Not everyone has a 10 year horizon. How do you handle the situation regarding your shares? I regret my previous short-term predictions and I don't make short-term predictions anymore. I don't regret my predictions for 2030 and beyond. I'm still fairly confident that Tesla is going to 10x or more by 2030. I think Robotaxi by 2030 is extremely likely. And the value that Robotaxi generates for Tesla is easily a 10x. And I think right now optimists is likely to be significant by 2030. And that's probably a 20 to 50x.

我相信董事会将会召开会议。我猜他们可能会在两到三个月的时间内多次举行会议。他们将制定一个替代的补偿方案，以弥补埃隆在法官的决定中失去的部分。然后将提交给股东投票。我认为这与他们是否在德克萨斯重新注册无关，这是两个独立的事情。对于特斯拉的股票表现，我是否后悔我之前的预测？并不是每个人都有十年的眼光。你是如何处理你的股份的？我对我之前的短期预测感到后悔，我不再做短期预测了。但我不后悔我对2030年及以后的预测。我仍然相当有信心特斯拉到2030年时将增长至少10倍。我认为到2030年，Robotaxi的出现极有可能，这将为特斯拉创造巨大价值，很可能是10倍以上。而且我认为目前乐观主义者到2030年将大幅增加，可能是20到50倍。

What do we make of the FSD beta delay only Omar has it still? I don't think that's a delay. I think they're taking their time and getting it right and that's fine. Yeah, by the way, thank you Mark Plot for pumping me on X Twitter, Patreon, locals, etc. The place I would most recommend following me is on X. It's WR4NYgov. I would appreciate anybody who subscribes to me on X.

我们对FSD测试版本的延迟仅Omar有它的情况有什么看法？我认为这不是一种延迟。我认为他们在花时间确保做得正确，这是可以理解的。对了，顺便感谢Mark Plot在X平台、Patreon、locals等地给我提供的支持。我最推荐大家关注我的X账号，账号名是WR4NYgov。我会非常感激任何在X上订阅我的人。

I don't really do a whole lot for subscribers on X. I do early access to my YouTube videos on X for subscribers on Patreon for supporters on the daily live for supporters and on as YouTube channel members as well.

我在X上对订阅者并没有做太多的事情。但我为在Patreon上支持我的订阅者提供了我的YouTube视频的提前访问权限，也会为支持我日常直播的订阅者提供这一权限，并且支持者还可以成为我的YouTube频道会员。

I think Elon was stay as Tesla CEO if he gets 25% of shares. I don't think he needs the 25% right away. I think if the next compensation package gets in close to I don't think he needs all the way to 25%. I think what he said sounded like he would be okay with like 22%. I think that's a fair split.

我认为如果埃隆获得25%的股份，他会继续担任特斯拉的CEO。我不认为他立刻就需要这25%的股份。我觉得下一个薪酬方案接近这个比例就可以了，他并不需要一定要达到25%。我认为他说的意思是，他可以接受22%左右的份额，我觉得这是一个公平的分配。

Mark Potopsics is about Warren's bedtime almost midnight. I still have a lot of energy. I think I drank coffee too late in the day. Without Elon Tesla will not be Tesla anymore and I will sell my shares. I mean it might make sense. I don't like making short term predictions. If Elon left the company and the stock fell 50% and then you sold, I would say that's not a good decision. If you were able to sell before he left the company before the stock fell and then the stock falls 50% and then you buy, that's probably a good decision if you can pull off that timing.

马克·波托普西斯是关于沃伦的上床时间接近午夜。我还有很多精力。我觉得我喝咖啡太晚了。没有埃隆，特斯拉就不再是特斯拉了，我会出售我的股份。我的意思是这可能是有道理的。我不喜欢做短期预测。如果埃隆离开了公司，股价下跌了50%，然后你卖出了，我会说那不是一个好决定。如果你能在他离开公司前卖出，在股价下跌之前买入，然后股价下跌了50%，那可能是一个明智的决定，如果你能做到好的时机。

JB Strowbell. I don't think that JB. I don't hate the idea of JB Strowbell as CEO but JB is busy running redwood materials. I don't know how you make that work. I don't think JB is a guy who can run two companies at once. I think Baglinos there and Baglinos the obvious choice.

JB斯特罗贝尔。我不认为JB可以担任首席执行官。我并不讨厌JB斯特罗贝尔作为首席执行官的想法，但是JB忙于经营红木材料。我不知道如何让他兼顾两家公司。我认为巴格里诺在那儿，他是显而易见的选择。

Honestly, Elon is not gaining any friends by getting involved in politics. Politics got involved in Elon. Before Elon got involved in politics, politics got involved in Elon. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and AOC were bashing Elon for years. There was some California politician who was bashing Elon. Politics interfered with Tesla's operations during COVID and Joe Biden had an EV summit and didn't invite Tesla to an EV summit. Joe Biden did a whole campaign and pretended that Elon didn't exist and that General Motors was leading the way in electric vehicles. So don't tell me that Elon got involved in politics. Politics got involved in Elon.

坦白说，埃隆参与政治并没有获得任何朋友。是政治介入了埃隆的生活。在埃隆介入政治之前，政治已经介入了埃隆。伯尼·桑德斯、伊丽莎白·沃伦和AOC多年来一直在抨击埃隆。还有某个加利福尼亚政客也在抨击埃隆。政治干扰了特斯拉在疫情期间的运营，乔·拜登举办了一次电动车峰会并没有邀请特斯拉。乔·拜登在整个竞选中假装埃隆不存在，而通用汽车是电动车领域的领跑者。所以别告诉我是埃隆参与了政治，而是政治介入了埃隆。

Brad says shares will crash without Elon. I think that's very likely. When do you think Tesla will be in a position to pay dividends? Tesla could pay dividends now. I don't think they're going to. Yeah, I agree with you Hugo. That is funny.

布拉德说如果没有埃隆，股票将会崩盘。我认为这很可能发生。你认为特斯拉何时能够开始支付红利？特斯拉现在就可以支付红利。但我觉得他们不会这么做。是的，我同意你的看法，雨果，这真是有趣。

Vivek is CEO. Mark Potashnik, Auto CEO. There will be a bloodbath at every company in Vegas and Tesla's price war. Yeah, I mean, you know, they have to lower prices to compete. A shoke? A shoke maybe? I don't think a shoke is the right CEO choice. Ronesh is gone.

维韦克是首席执行官。马克·波塔什尼克是汽车公司的首席执行官。在拉斯维加斯的每家公司以及特斯拉的价格战中，将会发生一场激烈的竞争。是的，我是说，他们必须降低价格来竞争。一个失策？也许选择首席执行官方面有些失误。罗内什已经离职。

Why should Elon leave the company as so much easier to continue AI robotics with Tesla and find a solution regarding his comp? Elon could leave the company and move to X... Not leave the company. Leave a CEO. Stay as chief product officers. Spend more time at XAI and focus on developing AGI at XAI and continue to spend more time at SpaceX and NURLINK's got a lot of shit happening, too. NURLINK's a big deal. I mean, Ryan Tanaka thinks that NURLINK may be part of the solution for AGI.

为什么埃隆要离开公司呢？与特斯拉一起继续进行人工智能机器人研发，并为他的薪酬问题找到解决方案都会更加简单。埃隆可以离开公司，去X公司工作，但不必离开公司，只需辞去CEO职务，继续担任首席产品官。他可以花更多时间在XAI上，专注于开发通用人工智能，在SpaceX和NURLINK上也可以有更多时间投入，因为NURLINK的发展也非常重要。我的意思是，瑞安·塔纳卡认为NURLINK可能成为通用人工智能的解决方案之一。

Does AOC still have a Tesla? I don't know. With all the frustrations that Elon has to go with Tesla being public, do you think this could be motivation for Elon on the board to go private with Tesla? I don't think it's feasible to go private with Tesla. I don't think that's an option. I think that the amount of money that we're required to buy out all the shareholders is just too high.

奥卡西奥-科尔特斯(AOC)还拥有特斯拉吗？我不知道。考虑到埃隆在特斯拉上市带来的所有挫折，你认为这可能是埃隆私有化特斯拉的动机吗？我不认为将特斯拉私有化是可行的选择。我认为我们需要用来买断所有股东的资金数量太高了。

Alan says Tesla won't pay dividends currently, but surely at some point they will generate so much cash they will give it back to us. First of all, don't call me Shirley. Second of all, I think that when the RoboTaxi network goes live and Tesla starts generating insane amounts of cash, then they'll probably start giving dividends then.

艾伦说特斯拉目前不会支付股息，但肯定会在某个时候产生大量现金并返还给我们。首先，不要叫我 Shirley。其次，我认为当 RoboTaxi 网络开始运作并且特斯拉开始产生疯狂数量的现金时，他们可能会开始支付股息。

Dojo could be a future Tesla cloud and supercomputer service. Absolutely. But you know, a new CEO might cancel the Dojo program and then Tesla and Elon moves the Dojo program over to XAI. Why is Tesla founding other AI companies? Why is an XAI owned by Tesla and same with NURLINK he's going to get rich without us? Well, because Elon has the freedom to invest his money however he wants and if you don't like it, you can found other AI companies with your money. He's just better at it than you are. He's not a slave to Tesla. He's free to do what he wants with his money. And if you think that Tesla should try to control Elon and stop him from doing these things, you are forcing you are telling Elon to leave Tesla and he will be happy to do so if that's the way that he's treated by the Tesla board and that's why the Tesla board doesn't treat him that way.

道场可能成为未来的特斯拉云和超级计算机服务。绝对没错。但是你知道，一位新的CEO可能会取消道场计划，然后特斯拉和埃隆会将道场计划转移到XAI上。为什么特斯拉要创办其他人工智能公司？为什么XAI由特斯拉拥有，纳林克也是？他们会通过我们而暴富吗？那是因为埃隆有权自由地将他的资金投资在他想要的地方，如果你不喜欢，你也可以用你的资金创办其他人工智能公司。他只是比你更擅长。他不是特斯拉的奴隶，他有权按照自己的想法运用他的资金。如果你认为特斯拉应该试图控制埃隆，阻止他做这些事情，那你就是在迫使埃隆离开特斯拉。特斯拉董事会不会这样对待他，这就是为什么他们不会。

Will he stay as chief engineer if he does not get the twenty part? I think he stays as something like chief product officer. Does Elon have to be CEO to have twenty five percent control of Tesla? No, I don't think so.

如果他没有得到这20个零部件，他会继续担任首席工程师吗？我认为他会担任类似首席产品官的职位。埃隆必须担任首席执行官才能对特斯拉有25%的控制权吗？不，我不这么认为。

Can you see a way Elon could spin off optimists and walk from Tesla? I think it's I don't think he would spin off optimists. I think optimists fits within Tesla because of the manufacturing. confidence within Tesla. I don't think there's another company that Elon has that does manufacturing in the same way so I don't think that makes sense. You don't need to answer all shitty questions. Elon needs to stay with Tesla. Well, no, but this is a reality that there are people who've been saying that you know, Tesla should explore a new CEO and there is a serious risk that Elon does not get compensated adequately. He decides to leave. And there's the judges very clearly saying that the board should have tried to control him more. The Barry Glax and lost Gerbers of the world have been saying that the board should be controlling Elon. You know, Ross Gerber had Elon in a Twitter space and Elon said, you know, call them on it and Ross chickened out. He actually talks big when he had the chance to actually call Elon out on something he shut up and said, I love you, Elon. It's bullshitter. Good option to up to vote to the shareholders so they can decide with lawyers. Oh, was this what is it the stock markets open and the stock is, you know, not moved that much. I'm surprised the stock. I think the stock should be up. If you believe that this judge is ruling is that Elon loses his options package. Then Tesla just gained $55 billion in value by reduced dilution. So the stock should be up like 10%. If what the judge did was good for shareholders, this stock should be up like 10%. I think the fact that the market did not react in a positive way says, gee, it looks like what the judge did wasn't in the interest of the shareholders. Daryl says, because optimus is such a big part of Tesla will be big part of Tesla. Wouldn't it be practical to have X AI a part of Tesla and optimus? I believe that Elon's company is generally cooperate. So the things that X AI does will probably benefit Tesla. We will probably see grok just like grok is on on X. We will probably see grok and Tesla cars and grok will probably be incorporated in optimus. And you know, engineers work across Elon's companies and that's always been the way it is. But as a shareholder, I would love it if X AI was part of Tesla. But I think Elon's view is he wanted to start up an AI company. You know, Tesla is not really in the business of large language models. And there's other kinds of things that X AI is going to do like scientific research. It's not really part of Tesla's mission. So I think it makes sense for X AI to be separate from Tesla and also it gives Elon control over an arm of AI. That's really important. I think Elon's new comp plan should make him have to hold his shares and hold to his word of being the last one out. He used shares for X, which is great for freedom of speech, but. The compensation package that he was that he was just overturned required him to hold the shares for five years. The options for five years he couldn't exercise for five years. So he, you know, he, you can't require him to hold shares that he already has. Like, look, when you try to restrict if you design a package that restricts Elon's freedom, he's you're saying you want him to leave as CEO. Like decide what you want. If you want to, if you think that the board gets to control Elon's behavior outside of Tesla in particular, then you are asking to kick, you are basically saying you want to kick Elon out as CEO because he's not going to run the company. He's not going to devote his full passion to the company if the board and the shareholders aren't going to support him. Just give Elon a salary 10 million a year to pay him back 10 million a year is nothing. I think you mean 10 billion a year. It would be cool to run into you and today sometime I'm here for a month. I was in Da Nang and I'm already gone. Buckaroo. I'm in time back in Thailand. And I don't think I'm going back to Da Nang anytime soon. Elon grew Tesla to what it is now. He can make Tesla 100 X from here. People need to understand that. Absolutely.

你能看到埃隆（Elon）可能把乐观派分拆并离开特斯拉的进一步发展吗？ 我认为不太可能他会分拆乐观派。由于特斯拉的制造和特斯拉公司内部的自信心，乐观派适合特斯拉。我认为埃隆没有其他一家以同样方式进行制造的公司，所以这是不合理的。你不需要回答所有烂问题。埃隆需要留在特斯拉。嗯，并不是这样，但是现实是有人一直说特斯拉应该考虑新的首席执行官，埃隆得不到合适的补偿。他可能会决定离开。法官们非常清楚地表示，董事会应该试图更多地控制他。巴里·格拉克斯（Barry Glax）和洛斯·格伯尔（Ross Gerber）一直在说董事会应该控制埃隆。你知道，洛斯·格伯尔在推特空间里都和埃隆谈过，但当真的有机会指责埃隆时，他却保持沉默，并说我爱你，埃隆是个骗子。对于股东来说，将这个好决定交给律师投票是个好选择。哦，这是股市开盘了，股票没怎么动。我很惊讶股票应该上涨。如果你认为法官的裁决会导致埃隆失去期权计划，那么通过降低稀释，特斯拉的价值将增加550亿美元。因此，股票应该上涨10%。我认为市场没有积极反应的事实表明，哎呀，看起来法官的决定并不符合股东的利益。达里尔表示，因为乐观派是特斯拉的重要组成部分，那么让X AI成为特斯拉和乐观派的一部分是否实际可行？我相信埃隆的公司通常是合作的。X AI所做的事情可能会对特斯拉有益。我们可能会像X上的grok一样，在特斯拉汽车上看到grok，并且grok可能会被纳入乐观派。你知道，工程师会在埃隆的公司之间合作，这一直是这样的。但作为股东，如果X AI成为特斯拉的一部分，我会很高兴。但我认为埃隆的看法是他想要启动一家人工智能公司。嘛，特斯拉不是大型语言模型的业务。X AI将做一些其他类型的事情，例如科学研究，这并不是特斯拉的使命。因此，我认为让X AI与特斯拉分离是有道理的，而且这也使埃隆能够控制重要的人工智能领域。我认为埃隆的新薪酬计划应该要求他持有股票并遵守他所承诺的成为最后一个离开的人。他为X公司使用股份，这对言论自由很棒，但是。刚刚被推翻的补偿计划要求他持有股票五年。五年内不能行使期权。所以，你不能要求他持有他已经拥有的股份。看，当你试图限制埃隆的自由时，你就是在说你想让他离开首席执行官职位。你需要决定你想要什么。如果你认为董事会可以控制埃隆在特斯拉之外的行为，那么你是在说你想要让他离开首席执行官职位，因为他不会继续经营公司。如果董事会和股东不支持他，他也不会全身心投入到公司中。只需给埃隆支付一年1000万美元的薪水来回报他，一年1000万美元几乎不值一提。如果在今天遇到你会很酷。我在这里待一个月。我刚刚离开过岘港。拍脑袋。我现在又回到泰国了。我不认为我会马上回去岘港。埃隆把特斯拉发展到了现在的地步。他可以让特斯拉的市值增长100倍。人们需要明白这一点。绝对如此。

Do you think Elon will pursue his city to city 700 mile per hour hyperloop concept and bring it to fruition? Yes, I think it's going to be more than 700 miles an hour and I think it's going to take 10 years before we see that in any significant way. Although there's talk about a San Antonio to Austin hyperloop soon.

你认为埃隆会推进他的城市间时速700英里的超级高铁概念并将其实现吗？ 是的，我认为速度将超过700英里每小时，但我认为在我们能够以明显的方式见到它之前还需要10年的时间。虽然现在有关于很快建设从圣安东尼奥到奥斯汀的超级高铁的谈论。

I don't know. Why is this stock on nowhere for four years?

我不知道。为什么这支股票在过去四年里一直无所作为？

It's three years, not four years. Buying treasuries would have the stock is up like eight X on four years.

这是三年，不是四年。购买国债会使股票在四年内增长约八倍。

Buying treasuries would have gone better and this is okay again the stock is up like eight X in four years.

购买国债会更好，这还可以，因为股票上涨了8倍，仅用了四年的时间。

Treasuries are not up eight X in four years. In relation, I think treasuries are probably down and model two isn't coming 2025. It's going to be 2027.

四年内国库券并没有上涨八倍。相比之下，我认为国库券可能会下跌，并且第二个模型不会在2025年推出，而是要到2027年。

I hate his fake timelines. Okay, there is no model to. So four seven to water. You are demonstrating your not paying attention. The stock is up like eight X over four years.

我讨厌他虚假的时间表。好的，没有模型。所以47到水。你正在展示出你没有在注意。股票在四年里增长了8倍。

And there is no model to there's a next generation vehicle platform. Maybe it will end up like Steve Job Story. Leave and then return later. Let's hope it doesn't end up like the second Steve Job Story. Leave and die.

而且还没有模型之于下一代车辆平台。也许它最终会变得像史蒂夫·乔布斯的故事一样。离开，然后回归。希望它不会像第二个史蒂夫·乔布斯的故事那样。离开并消失。

Redwood materials is a four billion dollar valuation. Tesla should just buy it and bring JB back. I think JB wants to run Redwood materials as his own company and that's how he makes his billions become successful and. And he has he's pursuing a different angle on what Tesla is doing.

Redwood Materials的估值达到了40亿美元。特斯拉应该直接收购它，并将JB请回来。我认为JB想将Redwood Materials当作自己的公司来经营，这是他创造财富和成功的方式。他正在追求与特斯拉不同的发展方向。

I think JB is just fine where he is. I don't hate JB as CEO. I'm just saying I don't think these necessarily the one BMW CFO sales growth is mostly electric as combustion engine tipping point passes.

我认为JB目前所处的位置挺好的。我并不讨厌JB担任首席执行官。我只是想说，我不认为这些是宝马首席财务官实现销售增长的唯一途径，因为燃油发动机的拐点已经过去了，电动汽车销售正在成为主要增长点。

I think the thing people don't understand about internal combustion engines versus EVs is EVs are improving at an accelerating rate and internal combustion engines have hit an asymptote. There's just very little improvement to be had an internal combustion engines.

我认为人们对于内燃机与电动汽车的不同之处有一个误解，那就是电动汽车的发展速度在加速，而内燃机已经达到了一个渐近线。在内燃机方面，几乎已经没有太多的改进空间了。

Thank you FX worldwide. I bought in 2010 I'm up 300%. When is NGV coming next generation vehicle is coming. They're hoping to start production in late 2025. I am of the view that they are sand bagging us and that the next generation vehicle will come sooner than that. But I could be wrong.

谢谢FX全球。我在2010年购买了，收益增长了300%。下一代车辆（NGV）什么时候会推出呢？他们希望在2025年底开始生产。我认为他们在误导我们，下一代车辆可能会比那个时间提前推出。但我也可能错了。

I think the bigger issue with the next generation vehicles what's the price point going to be. I've heard anywhere from 25 to 29,000 and I think those price points aren't low enough. I think if the next generation vehicle isn't closer to $20,000 it's not going to sell you on the volume necessary to achieve what they're trying to achieve with vehicles. It doesn't mean they don't achieve robo tax. He doesn't mean they don't achieve optimist. It just means that.

我认为下一代车辆的更大问题是价格点会是多少。我听说过的价格范围是25,000到29,000美元，我认为这些价格点还不够低。我认为，如果下一代车辆的价格不接近20,000美元，就无法以足够的销量实现他们对车辆所期望达到的目标。这并不意味着它们不能实现自动出租车（robo taxi）。并不意味着它们不能实现乐观主义（optimist）。这只是意味着...

The predator on the last one out thing was always hyperbole anyone with more than two brain cells understands that there's no such thing as a last one out shareholder unless the company goes bankrupt.

最后一个持股人被捕食者的说法一直是夸张的，拥有两个以上脑细胞的人都明白，除非公司破产，否则不存在所谓的最后一个持股人。

Look, he wants to loans 13% of the company owns more a greater share of value of Tesla than I think any CEO anywhere. I want the vote for shareholders what they want today and if they agree with his lawyers from Delaware. I'm not sure what you're saying there Carmen. You need to write that clearer.

看，他想借出公司13%的股份，比我认为任何地方的CEO都拥有更多特斯拉的价值份额。我希望今天股东能投票表达他们的意愿，如果他们同意他在特拉华州的律师所提出的要求。卡门，我不确定你的意思。你需要把那写清楚些。

How do you think Tesla's board will be broken up or will the board be changed at all curious okay. So this is an interesting question.

你认为特斯拉的董事会将如何被分化，或者董事会是否会有任何变化好奇。这是一个有趣的问题。

I think the judges analysis of the boards lack of independence was deeply flawed. I think that is a reason to move the company to Texas because you can't get you're probably going to be back with this judge. And this judges interpretation of what director independence is is just flat out wrong.

我认为法官对董事会缺乏独立性的分析是极其错误的。我认为这是将公司迁至德克萨斯州的原因，因为你很可能会再次遇到这个法官。而且，这位法官对董事独立性的解释完全错误。

Aaron Price is an independent director. I think there's an argument that Antonio Grazies is not independent, but Robin Denham is an independent director and. And Ira Aaron Price is an independent director. The only director that I saw you know, you want to Campbell are not independent. We can agree on that. Everybody else except maybe Antonio Grazies is the closest call. Ira Aaron Price is as independent as you get. I think it's absurd to say he's not an independent director saying Robin Denham is not an independent director is just absurd. The same judge ruled that Robin Denham was an independent director back in the funding secured trial. And now and that's the same time it's like it made absolutely no sense.

艾伦·普莱斯是一位独立导演。我认为有人可能会争辩说安东尼奥·格拉齐斯并不是独立的，但罗宾·丹厄姆是一位独立导演。艾伦·普莱斯也是一位独立导演。我唯一看到的不独立的导演，就是你提到的坎贝尔。我们可以认同这一点。除了安东尼奥·格拉齐斯之外，其他人都可以说是最接近独立导演的人选。艾伦·普莱斯就是我们所能找到的最独立的导演。我认为说他不是独立导演是荒谬的。同一位法官还在“融资获得”审判中裁定罗宾·丹厄姆是独立导演。现在，这完全说不通。

Next generation vehicle the FSD only but my understanding is that there will be a version of the next generation vehicle that will have a steering wheel and pedals and there will be a version that won't have a steering wheel and pedals. And I think there may be more versions. There may be multiple steering wheel versions is probably one or two robo taxi versions will see.

下一代车辆仅拥有全自动驾驶系统（FSD），但我的理解是，下一代车辆将有一个带有方向盘和踏板的版本，也将有一个没有方向盘和踏板的版本。我认为可能还会有更多的版本。可能会有多个带方向盘版本，可能会有一两个无人出租车版本。

Eventually internal combustion engine vehicle manufacturers lose volume buying power versus their cost structure. There's there's all sorts of ways an internal combustion engine vehicle manufacturers die and be you know be where the maybe the thing that kills them before Tesla does.

最终，内燃机车辆制造商在其成本结构上失去了批量购买的能力。在都有各种各样的方式，使内燃机车辆制造商倒闭，并且可能会在特斯拉之前发生。

I don't know enough about Texas law, Texas securities law, Texas finance law, Texas corporate law to say whether Texas would be better than Delaware. That's a question that some other lawyer would be better position to answer.

我对德克萨斯法律、德克萨斯证券法、德克萨斯金融法和德克萨斯公司法的了解不够充分，无法判断德克萨斯是否比特拉华更好。这是另一位律师更适合回答的问题。

Mitchell walrich says Robin Denham filed the cell of massive number of shares recently well. Was it a massive percentage of her holdings. of the company or was it just a massive number of shares because she has a she has an even more massive number of shares that she's not selling.

米切尔·沃尔里奇表示罗宾·丹纳姆最近出售了大量股票也进行了成功的交易。这是她所持公司股份的大比例出售，还是仅仅因为她持有更多其他股票，所以只是销售了大量的股票而已？

Harry while Tesla's van should come next 2025 so Drew bag lino when talking about the 46 80 said that they need the cells for Tesla's future vehicle program so there's an interesting question what was he talking about. I think there's a van coming the van come may come sooner rather than later.

哈利在谈论特斯拉的货车将于2025年推出之际，德鲁在谈论4680电池时表示他们需要这一电池来供应特斯拉未来的车辆计划，这引发了一个有趣的问题，他在说些什么呢？我认为特斯拉将很快推出一款新的货车，而且可能会比预期的时间提前推出。

Is this the same judge that made Elon by X Twitter yes I believe it is. It's not fit you must acquit. Where is the Toyota solid state yeah Toyota solid state battery. It's right around the corner it's coming any day now. 2028 at the latest. Or later.

这是同一个法官吗？是的，我相信是他。这不合适，你必须无罪释放。丰田的固态电池在哪里？它就在拐角处，随时就会到来。最晚在2028年。或者更晚一些。

Prior to production when do you think Elon will show the text the next generation prototype. The theory is that Tesla will not announce the next generation vehicle details until right before they're ready to deliver. That's my best guess and I could be wrong. It's possible that they'll do a presentation on it and they'll take.

在生产之前，你觉得埃隆会在什么时候展示下一代原型车？有一种理论认为，特斯拉将在准备交付前才公布下一代车型的详细信息。这是我最好的猜测，我可能会错。可能他们会做一个关于它的演示，并收取费用。

I don't think they need deposits. To sell the vehicle they got deposits in the past and it was like a zero interest loan. At this point I think that keeping it secret what it is until they're ready to deliver is probably more valuable than telling people here's what's coming. I really don't like waiting till the second half of 2025 I think that really slows. Growth on the vehicle side of the business. So that that's a really frustrating thing for me all right.

我认为他们不需要押金。过去，为了销售车辆，他们收取了押金，相当于零利息贷款。目前我认为，直到他们准备交付之前，将其保密可能比告诉人们“未来的车型是什么”更有价值。我真的不喜欢等到2025年下半年，我认为这会大大拖慢车辆业务的增长。这对我来说真的很令人沮丧。

So I think the questions have slowed down and it's after midnight here in Thailand and I think we've gone long enough. So I want to thank in particular Mark Potatchnick and Mark. We're moderating the chat. I want to thank everybody for watching. And I think it's a good time to wrap up so I hope this was helpful to people and I will talk to you all again soon. Thanks very much. Bye bye.

所以我觉得问题已经减少了，在泰国现在已经过了午夜，我觉得讨论得够久了。所以我特别感谢马克·波塔迪尼克和马克。他们一直在主持聊天。感谢大家的观看。我想现在是结束的好时机，希望对大家有所帮助，不久后我会再和大家交流。非常感谢大家。再见。