Revealing the Secrets of Santander’s 14,000 Car Dealer Connections | Betty Jotanovic
发布时间 2023-11-21 18:00:33 来源
摘要
This episode is brought to you by: AutoFi - AutoFi empowers your team with digital retail technology that accelerates the sale.
GPT-4正在为你翻译摘要中......
中英文字稿 
We've seen used car prices start to normalize. They've come down over the last 12 months, but they're still not at pre-pandemic levels. Interest rates have skyrocketed. So I think consumers are trying to hold on. They know it's hard to get a car. Financing is gonna be more costly. So they're sitting in this perpetual delinquency, but not letting the car roll to loss. ["Pomp and Circumstance"]
我们已经看到二手车价格开始趋于正常化。在过去的12个月里，二手车价格有所下降，但仍未达到疫情前的水平。利率飙升。因此我认为消费者正在努力保持现状。他们知道很难买到车，贷款成本也会更高。因此他们处于这种永恒的拖欠状态，但不让车辆进入损失状态。["庄严和仪式感"]
What's up everyone? This is car dealership guy. You're listening to the car dealership guy podcast, which is my effort to give you access to the most unbiased and transparent insights into the car market. Let's get into today's episode.
大家好！我是汽车销售员。你正在收听的是我的汽车销售员播客，我努力为你提供最客观、最透明的汽车市场见解。让我们进入今天的节目吧。
Betty Johtanovic is the president of Chrysler Capital and auto relationships at Santander. In this conversation, we discussed how Santander predicts auto loan defaults, the rise of 96 month loans, the challenging vehicle affordability landscape for consumers, solving for EV and auto loan fraud risks, rising defaults, repose and much more.
贝蒂·约翰托诺维奇（Betty Johtanovic）是桑坦德银行（Santander）旗下的克莱斯勒资本（Chrysler Capital）和汽车关系部门的总裁。在这次对话中，我们讨论了桑坦德银行如何预测汽车贷款违约、96个月期限贷款的增长、消费者面对具有挑战性的汽车可负担性，以及解决电动车和汽车贷款欺诈风险、不断上升的违约问题、重新拿回车辆等诸多议题。
But before we get into the show, this episode is brought to you by AutoFi. Most digital retail platforms are limited in their capabilities and fall short on empowering dealers to convert shoppers into buyers while protecting profitability. AutoFi delivers done deals by empowering your dealership with the technology to land customers on the right vehicle and deal. From payment configuration, F&I product selection, credit and real-time lender offers, plus the back-end selling tools to help close the deal. This accelerates the deal no matter where the customer is on the dealer's website, over the phone or in the showroom and translates to a faster sale with better customer experience and higher profits. In fact, the most engaged dealers on AutoFi see $411 more back-end PVR versus non-autobi deals. Go to autofy.com slash CDG to learn more or click the link in the show notes below. That's autofy.com slash CDG and start working with done deals today.
在我们开始节目之前，本集节目由AutoFi赞助。大多数数字零售平台在能力上有限，无法有效地帮助经销商将看车者转化为购车者，同时保护利润。AutoFi通过为您的经销店提供技术，为您实现成功交易。从付款配置、F＆I产品选择、信用和实时贷款机构优惠，以及帮助完成交易的后端销售工具，AutoFi让交易加速进行。无论客户位于经销店网站上，通过电话或在展厅中，都可以实现更快的销售，提供更好的客户体验和更高的利润。事实上，AutoFi上最活跃的经销商与非AutoFi交易相比，每笔销售额的后端利润增加了411美元。请访问autofy.com/CDG了解更多信息，或者点击下方节目说明中的链接。就从今天开始，与完成交易的AutoFi合作吧！
This episode is also brought to you by podium, the lead conversion platform for car dealerships. podium helps you get found at the top of Google search and convert new leads faster with industry-leading communication tools and AI. With podium, you can finally take the guest work out of lead management, bring every lead into one unified inbox, respond automatically in two minutes or less and even book appointments using AI. Get podium and get ready to convert leads faster than ever and see why over a hundred thousand businesses like yours have given themselves an instant advantage with podium. Get started today with 10% off your plan by texting car dealership guy to 833-441-11 166. That's 833-441-1166. Hex that number and mention this podcast to get 10% off your plan or visit the link in the show notes below.
这一集的赞助商也是由 Podium 提供的，它是车行业的领先转化平台。Podium 可以帮助您在谷歌搜索中排名靠前并通过行业领先的沟通工具和人工智能更快地转化新线索。使用 Podium，您终于可以摆脱繁琐的线索管理工作，将每个线索都整合到一个统一的收件箱中，自动在两分钟内进行回复，甚至可以使用人工智能来预约。获取 Podium，并准备以比以往更快的速度转化线索，看看为什么有超过十万个像您的企业都通过 Podium 获得了即时优势。今天就开始使用，发送短信 "car dealership guy" 到 833-441-1166，即可享受计划的10%折扣优惠。这是833-441-1166 这个号码，请提到这个播客来享受10%的折扣，或者访问下方的展示说明链接。
All right, so tons of demand requests desire from the audience to get an insider's perspective into what is happening with lending, the economy, auto finance. You saw I made a post, I made a post author yesterday about what is going on, like all these buzzwords, right? People talk about it all the time, it's in the media, it's on social, but what's really happening? So I think it's great to have you on so we can dive into that.
好的，所以观众们希望从内部人士的视角了解关于借贷、经济和汽车金融方面的发展情况，他们提出了大量的需求和要求。你看到了我昨天发的一篇文章，关于正在发生的事情，像所有这些流行词，对吧？人们经常谈论它，媒体上也有报道，社交媒体上也有讨论，但真正发生了什么呢？所以我认为很高兴能有你的加入，我们可以深入探讨这个问题。
Before we get started and we get into the nitty gritty, can you give us your background and tell us how you got to Santander? Or did I say that right? Is it, in the car business, there's three ways to say Santander, Sand Tander and Sand Tander. So that's the classic saying in the car business. Yeah, you said it the right way, but I found that whenever I, and I do say it the right way Santander, sometimes I have to say it three times. And when I finally say Santander, everyone's like, oh, Santander, okay. But yes, you said it right.
在我们开始详细讨论之前，你能告诉我们一下你的背景，以及你是如何来到桑坦德（Santander）的吗？或者我说对了吗？在汽车业中，有三种说桑坦德的方式，分别是Sand Tander和Sand Tander。这是汽车行业中的经典说法。是的，你说对了，但我发现每当我说桑坦德（Santander）时，有时候我不得不说三遍。当我最终说对桑坦德（Santander）时，每个人都会说，噢，桑坦德（Santander），好的。但是，是的，你说对了。
So I have been in the auto business since 1994, love the auto business, born and raised in Detroit. I started actually on the assembly line at Chrysler Motors. I was going to Lawspool at night and I worked the midnight shift, putting name plates on Jeep Grange here used at the Jefferson North Assembly Plant.
我自从1994年以来一直从事汽车行业，热爱汽车产业，出生并在底特律长大。我最开始在克莱斯勒汽车公司的装配线上工作。晚上我上法学院的课，然后在午夜班工作，给在杰斐逊北装配厂使用的吉普·格兰奇车上贴上车牌。
So in my career, I have worked from the beginning to the end of a lifecycle of a car from when it's built to, when it's charged off and then packaged and sold in a debt sale. I started my white collar professional career at Chrysler Financial. So from the assembly line did that for a little less than a year and then I got a job at Chrysler Financial working in Treasury, worked the cash desk. And then after I graduated law school, I worked in the tax department, did that for a bit. That's kind of where a lot of lawyers in the company landed.
在我的职业生涯中，我从汽车的制造开始到报废再包装销售的整个生命周期都有参与。我在克莱斯勒金融（Chrysler Financial）开始了我的白领职业生涯。从流水线工作了不到一年后，我在克莱斯勒金融的财务部门找到了工作，负责处理现金事务。毕业于法学院后，我进入了税务部门工作一段时间。这是公司内部许多律师聚集的地方。
But then I really enjoyed the business side, the less stuffy, not that tax is stuffy, but it really wasn't my personality. So I ended up doing a rotational program where I did a project for, at the time, Head of Sales and Credit. So I was essentially like his chief of staff, after I completed that program, he hired me to be his chief of staff, worked in Sales and Credit. And then is everyone's familiar with the Chrysler bankruptcy and the split from Dine where they reassigned leaders, he worked on the collection side. So that's how I got my experience on the back end, moving over with the executive that I worked for. And then spent the better part of a decade working in collections.
但是后来我真的喜欢上了商业方面，不太拘谨的一面，税务也不是拘谨的，但它真的不适合我的个性。所以我最终参加了一个轮岗计划，在那个时候我为销售和信贷部门的负责人做一个项目。所以我实际上就像是他的首席助手，完成了这个计划后，他雇佣我成为他的首席助手，并在销售和信贷部门工作。而后，大家对克莱斯勒破产和与戴姆分离后重新分配领导人的情况应该都很熟悉，他负责处理催收方面的工作。这就是我如何在后台获取了经验，随同我工作的高管一同转岗。然后，在往后的十年里，我主要从事催收工作。
I went to Bank of America where I ended up running the collections customer service, remarketing and recovery. And then ended up also at Bank of America on the front end doing the credit funding dealer management. And then that rules really what brought me to Santander. They were really looking for someone to come in on the front end of the business. And as the company grew from a startup and matured into a large regulated financial institution, believe it or not, it wasn't my Chrysler financial experience that brought me over to Santander. It was the fact that I worked for Big Bank, I had a background at legal and really just to help with the governance and controls in the business, which was a big focus the first couple of years I was here.
我去了美国银行，结果在那里负责催收客户服务、再销售和回收。然后又在美国银行前端从事信贷资金经销商管理工作。而这些经历实际上是我来到桑坦德的原因。他们真的需要有人在业务前端做事。难以置信的是，我来到桑坦德并不是因为我在克莱斯勒金融方面的经验，而是因为我在一家大银行工作过，我有法律背景，真的是为了帮助业务中的治理和控制，这是我在这里的前几年中的重点。
And then last year when Bruce Jackson, who previously held this role was promoted to CEO of the auto business, I took an expanded role where I took on the sales team and the commercial team in addition to my credit funding and dealer management responsibilities.
然后去年，当之前担任这个职位的布鲁斯·杰克逊被提升为汽车业务的首席执行官时，我接手了一个更大的职责。除了负责信贷资金和经销商管理工作外，我还负责销售团队和商业团队的工作。
So. All right, so for anyone listening and doesn't quite understand, you're the president of Chrysler Capital, but also the head of auto relationships at Santander. How does that work explain this to the audience?
那么，好吧，对于听众中不太明白的人来说，你是克莱斯勒资本（Chrysler Capital）的总裁，同时也是桑坦德银行汽车业务负责人。你能向观众解释这是如何运作的吗？
So my role is essentially the front end dealer facing business. So Chrysler Capital is a distinct business that we have and we go to market as Chrysler Capital, but we also have auto relationships with other brands. We have a network of about 14,000 dealers across all OEMs. So the auto relationships piece is all everything, but Chrysler Financial or Chrysler Capital and so Chrysler Capital's zone separate white label channel. Got it.
我的角色本质上是面向经销商的前端业务。因此，克莱斯勒资本（Chrysler Capital）是我们独立的业务，我们作为克莱斯勒资本（Chrysler Capital）进入市场，但我们也与其他品牌建立了汽车合作关系。我们拥有大约14,000个不同汽车制造商的经销商网络。所以汽车关系涵盖了一切，但克莱斯勒金融（Chrysler Financial）或克莱斯勒资本（Chrysler Capital）以及克莱斯勒资本（Chrysler Capital）的白标渠道是分开的。明白了。
So, and why do they need you? Like if I'm Chrysler or if I'm whoever, some car manufacturer, why do I come to you and say, hey, let's set up a lending arm together? Like what value are you bringing? What do they bring to the table? How does that work?
那么，他们为什么需要你呢？比如，如果我是克莱斯勒或者其他汽车制造商，为什么会找到你，说：“嘿，我们一起建立一个贷款部门吧？”你能带来什么价值？他们会做出什么贡献？这是如何运作的呢？
So, from my perspective, it's a couple of things. It's one, having a partner that has expertise in lending, manufacturing is very different from lending. It allows you to focus on that business, but I would say the other piece is really being able to not have to deal with the regulatory side of it. I did spend about four and a half years at GE Capital. I stepped away from the auto business. And one thing I learned when I was there, it was a GE is a manufacturing company. And back in 2015, 16, they decided to start divesting a lot of their capital business. And the rationale was it was so highly regulated that it took a lot of focus away from the manufacturing side. So, I think when you think of auto financing, it's very highly regulated, very consumer focused. And so, you do have some OEMs that want to have a wholly owned captive, but they've built that expertise within their shop, within their company. But where you don't wanna deal with that noise and you wanna focus on the manufacturing, you have a captive, they have the expertise, they can help build programs, try financing, help you sell your product. It's a complimentary service, but also not have to deal in the weeds with some of these complex issues that may not affect manufacturing as much. Yeah, look, it makes sense, right? It's not their core competency. So, in concept, it makes sense to me. I'm not being not from this world at all. And it's just interesting, why they would seek you out and what value you bring to the table. So, that's helpful.
所以，从我的角度来看，有几个方面很重要。首先，拥有一位在借贷领域有专业知识的合作伙伴非常重要，因为制造业与借贷业务有很大的不同。这让你可以专注于自己的业务，但我认为另一个重要的方面是不需要处理监管事务。我在GE资本工作了约四年半，当时我离开了汽车业务。在那里的时候，我学到了一件事，那就是GE是一家制造公司。而在2015年到2016年期间，他们决定开始剥离大部分资本业务。他们这样做的理由是资本业务受到了极高的监管，这让他们在制造业务上失去了很多关注度。所以，当谈到汽车融资时，它也是受到严格监管、专注于消费者的行业。因此，有一些汽车制造商希望拥有完全自有的金融部门，但他们会在自己的公司内部培养这方面的专业知识。但是，如果你不想处理那些琐碎烦人的事情，想专注于制造业务，你就可以选择一个金融子公司，他们拥有专业知识，可以帮助制定融资方案，推动销售产品。这是一项有补充性的服务，同时也不需要你亲自去处理那些可能对制造业务影响不大的复杂问题。是的，这很合理，因为这不是他们的核心能力。所以，在概念上，我觉得这是有道理的。虽然我对这个领域毫不熟悉，但我觉得很有趣，他们为什么会找到你，你能带来什么价值。所以，这些信息对我很有帮助。
Now, and then other than Chrysler Capital, like, are you a captive for anyone else or any other car manufacturer out there?
现在除了克莱斯勒资本公司外，你是否还为其他公司或汽车制造商提供专属服务？表达的意思是要了解对除克莱斯勒资本公司外的其他公司或汽车制造商是否有类似的合作关系。尽量易读的意味着简洁明了地表达出来。
Yes, we just had our one year anniversary with Mitsubishi in May. So, we do that business. And then we just recently announced partnership with Lotus and with Inyos. So, if I go right now to buy, I actually tweeted about Mitsubishi's the other day. I was tweeting about the seven passenger outlanders. I don't know how far my yard was done, but they're pretty hot sellers for their price point. Anyway, so if I go buy one right now from a Mitsubishi dealer and I finance it through, Mitsubishi financial, so that's you actually on the back end.
是的，我们在5月份刚刚与三菱合作满一年了。所以我们进行这项业务。而且我们最近刚刚宣布与Lotus和Inyos合作伙伴关系。所以，如果我现在去买一辆车，我实际上在前几天发推文讲了讲三菱的情况。我在推文中谈到了七座的Outlanders。虽然我不确定我的车场是否有库存，但以它们的价格来说，它们在销售方面非常火爆。总之，如果我现在去三菱经销商那里购买一辆车，并且通过三菱金融贷款，那么你实际上就是在背后处理此事。
Yes, and so for Mitsubishi, we do it through the Santander brand. So, there's not a separate branding there, but we are the preferred lender. And so, any subvention would come through us. Got it.
是的，对于三菱来说，我们通过桑坦德（Santander）品牌来进行这项工作。因此，在那里并没有独立的品牌，但我们是首选贷款机构。因此，任何津贴都将通过我们提供。明白了。
Now, transitioning to dealers for a second, right? You have massive, massive portfolio of just dealer business. What's the number you mentioned? Like? 14,000. 14,000. Got it.
现在，过渡到经销商这个话题，对吗？你拥有一大笔庞大的经销商业务投资组合。你提到了一个数字是多少？像是14,000这样的数字。14,000，明白了。
So, is most of your business today, is it actually being originated from independent dealers or is it through these captive arms at franchise dealers? Like, how does that work? What's the distribution there? Or whatever you can share? It's primarily franchise dealers. So, obviously, Chrysler and then our other OEM partners Mitsubishi, Lotus and Inyos. But along with all of our other dealers, any OEM. So, we will have Ford and GM and Pia and Toyota. You name it, we do all the OEMs.
所以，现在您的大部分业务是通过独立经销商发起的，还是通过特许经销商的专属部门呢？这是怎么运作的？分销渠道是怎样的？无论您愿意分享什么，我们都感兴趣。主要是通过特许经销商，当然还有克莱斯勒和其他原始设备制造商（OEM）合作伙伴，如三菱、Lotus和Inyos。但除了这些特许经销商外，我们还与所有其他OEM的经销商合作，包括福特、GM、皮亚诺和丰田等。无论你提到什么品牌，我们都与所有OEM合作。
We have a very small portfolio of franchise dealers. We have stringent requirements, just because of the risk associated with that. But we do have a pathway for franchise affiliates. So, if you're affiliated with a franchise dealer that we do business with, there is a path to do business with us, but the requirements are just a lot more stringent.
我们有一个非常小的特许经销商组合。我们对此有严格的要求，仅仅是因为相关的风险。但是，我们确实有一个特许联盟的途径。因此，如果你与我们合作的特许经销商有关联，就有可能与我们做生意，但要求会更加严格。
Yeah, like, you know, being from the independent side, Santa Dares have got tough lender to sign up with as a dealer. Like, I can tell you, like, I've been there. And that's the reputation on the street. It's just, it's tough to get. Why is that? Would you say, like, why, why do you, do you have a tougher reputation to sign up with new dealers in the market?
是的，你知道的，作为独立方的圣达雷斯很难找到愿意与其合作的经销商。我可以告诉你，我亲身经历过这种情况。这就是我们在市场上的声誉。很难找到合适的合作伙伴。为什么会这样呢？你会说是什么原因导致了圣达雷斯在市场上找到新的经销商更艰难呢？
Yeah, and I think it's changed, you know, the last several years, you know, with our evolution, as I mentioned, this was a very entrepreneurial startup, startup type of company. And then when Banco Santander purchased it, obviously we had to be held to a much higher standard of operating, a lot more regulatory scrutiny. You know, we deal with all the regulators from the Fed to the CFPB to the OCC, as well as, we're subject to regulation by the 50 states. So there's someone always, you know, looking over our shoulder. Aside from that, it is the right thing to do. We want to make sure that we manage the risk in our business. We want to make sure that we're doing the right things for our customers. And so we do have a very stringent vetting process to make sure that the dealers that we do business with are reputable. And that just makes our job a lot easier because we're very focused on doing the right thing for the consumer, ensuring no customer harm. And it just makes our job a lot easier if you're dealing with reputable dealers. And there are a lot of them out there.
是的，我认为它变了，你知道，在过去的几年里，你知道，随着我们的发展，正如我提到的，这是一家非常创业型的初创公司。然后当桑坦德银行收购它时，我们显然必须遵守更高水平的运营标准，面临更多的监管审查。你知道，我们与联邦储备系统、消费者金融保护局和全国公证处等监管机构打交道，同时还受到50个州的监管。所以总是会有人监视着我们。除此之外，这是正确的做法。我们想确保在我们的业务中管理风险。我们想确保我们为我们的客户做正确的事情。所以我们有一个非常严格的审查流程，以确保我们与业务合作的经销商是可靠的。这样做使我们的工作更容易，因为我们非常专注于为消费者做正确的事情，确保没有对顾客造成伤害。如果你与有信誉的经销商打交道，这将使我们的工作更轻松。而且市场上有很多可靠的经销商。
I'll give you kudos. You know, we went through the signup process. I mean, not too long ago. And it was like, it was intense in a good way. I mean, you know, things went well, but you could tell that, you know, your team definitely does their diligence. So kudos to you on that. Cause I don't think every lender can attest to that.
我会给你点赞的。你知道的，我们经历了注册过程，不久之前刚经历过。那真的是一个不错的经验，感觉还是蛮紧张的。但是你可以看出来，你们的团队真的很用心。所以对你们做得这么认真，我给你们点赞。因为我觉得并不是每个借贷人都能做到这一点。
So I guess on the topic of dealers while we're at it, you know, from your perspective, like what do you actually seek in a dealer? Or like what makes an excellent dealership for you to work with?
所以我猜在谈到经销商这个话题时，你知道，从你的角度来看，你实际上在找一个怎样的经销商呢？或者说什么样的经销商让你愿意合作呢？
For us, we're looking for a partner. We're looking for, you know, a dealer that wants to have a mutually beneficial relationship. We want to see quality and volume. You know, we're traditionally known as a subprime lender. That's where we got our start. But with the Chrysler capital relationship, you know, we obviously are a full spectrum lender. We do lease, we do retail, we do small business commercial, floor plan. So we want a dealer that is going to leverage all of our capabilities, send us a white spectrum of volume and quality of volume.
对于我们来说，我们正在寻找一个合作伙伴。我们正在寻找一个希望拥有互利关系的经销商。我们希望看到质量和数量。你知道，我们传统上被称为次级贷款人。那是我们起步的地方。但是通过克莱斯勒资本的关系，我们显然成为了一个全面的贷款人。我们提供租赁、零售、小企业商业、库存贷款等服务。所以我们希望找到一个经销商，能够充分利用我们所有的能力，向我们提供各种各样的质量和数量。
If I understand it correctly, are you, are you starting to expand away from subprime? Not saying that you're not doing subprime anymore, but are you looking to like move upstream and additionally, or like what's your thought there?
如果我理解正确的话，你是不是开始从次级市场扩张了？并不是说你不再做次级市场，而是你是否打算向上游发展，或者说你对此有什么想法？
Absolutely. We're a full spectrum lender and we have been doing prime. It's been historically under the Chrysler capital brand is what the market has seen, but we are and have launched it under the Santander brand. So, you know, we have that capability to do prime as well as subprime and, you know, and all the other products, lease and commercial as well.
完全正确。我们是一个全方位的贷款人，一直以来都在进行优质贷款。市场一直以来看到的是我们在Chrysler capital品牌下进行的历史数据，但实际上我们已经将其纳入了Santander品牌。所以，我们具备进行优质贷款以及次优质贷款，以及其他产品（如租赁和商业贷款）的能力。
So, you know, like hypothetically speaking, if I was in that boardroom where you're, you know, talking about kind of moving upstream, how are you, how are you taught, like what's your strategy to compete, right? Because the marketplace is efficient. There's plenty of lenders that are operating in the prime segment. How are you going to compete in that segment? Like how do you think you can actually gain market share there? Whatever you can share it on that.
所以，你知道的，就假设地说，如果我在那个讨论上游发展的会议室里，你知道的，谈论着如何竞争的话，你打算如何竞争呢？因为市场是高效的，有很多贷款机构在主流市场运作。你打算如何在这个领域竞争？你认为你如何在那里赢得市场份额？无论你能透露什么信息。
So, I think that the top prime segment is always going to be very competitive. You've got your big banks out there. You know, I spent several years at Bank of America. They're a top prime lender and that's where they play. So, and the margins are very thin. So, it may not be worth it for us to get super aggressive and fight for that top prime business, but we think there's a place for us, you know, right behind that top prime, maybe we're not, you know, the best price there. But when you start getting a little bit lower in the food chain in that prime, behind the top prime, as well as in the near prime segment, that's where we excel and that's where we have a place.
所以，我认为顶级优质客户群体将永远充满竞争。大型银行就在那里。你知道，我在美国银行工作了几年。他们是一家顶级优质贷款机构，那就是他们的领域。所以，利润空间非常小。也许我们不值得投入太多精力去争夺那些顶级优质客户，但我们认为在那之后还有我们的位置，也许我们不是提供最好价格的。但当你在顶级优质客户的下层以及近优质客户群体这些层级时，我们就能表现出色并找到我们的位置。
And then I think where we really fit is, you know, if we're in that room with the dealer and the customer, and maybe, you know, Bank of America chase as well as you name your bank lender, maybe they don't approve it, but we do as a tier three and we come right behind them. I think that that's our advantage, where if a prime lender won't buy it or maybe they're not as competitive, we're willing to, you know, to go a little deeper and we know how to price in that near prime space. Yeah, so my super simplistic brain thinks that in order to be the most competitive in your field, you have to be the best at predicting risk because the better you can predict risk, the better you can price the collateral or the loans. So what is, and look, I get these things are complicated algorithms and whatnot, but like, how are you quantifying risk? Obviously not other than credit score, like, is there anything specific that you look for and it's different in other lenders? Like, how are you going about that?
然后我认为我们真正适合的地方就是，你知道，如果我们和经销商和客户一起在那个房间里，还有可能，你知道，美国银行和大通银行以及你命名的银行放贷机构，也许他们不批准，但作为三级贷方，我们会紧随其后。我认为这是我们的优势，如果一家头等贷方不愿购买，或者可能他们不那么有竞争力，我们愿意深入研究，我们知道如何在准优贷领域定价。是的，所以我的超级简化的大脑认为，为了在你的领域中竞争力最强，你必须是最擅长预测风险的人，因为你越能预测风险，你就能更好地定价抵押品或贷款。那么，你是如何量化风险的呢？除了信用分数之外，显然有其他特定的东西你在寻找，这与其他贷方有所不同，你是如何做到这一点的呢？
Yeah, we have a proprietary model that we've built and it'll look at historical performance with us, on us, off us. You know, we obviously use the standard tools in the market to identify fraud, but we have a heavy reliance on our, a lot of elements I can't share that are proprietary, but I think that's kind of our secret sauce that we have experienced in segments that other lenders may not. And so that that's our competitive advantage.
是的，我们有一个我们自己建立的专有模型，它会对我们的历史表现进行分析，无论是关于我们自己的还是外部的。当然，我们当然会使用市场上的标准工具来识别欺诈行为，但我们对我们自己的专有元素有着很大的依赖，这些元素我无法透露，但我认为这是我们在其他贷款机构可能没有经历过的领域中的竞争优势。因此，这就是我们的秘密武器。
I wouldn't zoom out for a second. Like you've seen a lot, I love that you worked from like, you know, the manufacturing, you know, on the floor, all the way through the supply chain to the top. It's really, really admirable. Tell me a little bit about like the current just state of the union right now with respect to the economy. Like we'll get into more specifics, but I'm just curious, like, what's going through your head nowadays, you know, like what's keeping you up at night with respect to like auto loan performance, the broader economy and everything to do with that.
我一刻也不会放大视野。就像你见过很多一样，我喜欢单从制造业，你知道的，从生产线一直到供应链的顶端。这真的非常令人钦佩。告诉我一些目前关于经济方面的情况。我们会进一步讨论具体问题，但我只是好奇，现在你脑中有什么想法，你晚上为何感到忧虑，涉及到汽车贷款绩效、整体经济以及与之相关的一切。
Yeah, I think, you know, when you look at performance, we all enjoyed the best of times during the pandemic where we had, you know, 0% financing, there were cars available, consumers were flushed with cash between stimulus and then, you know, not spending money on gas to go to work and go not, not go not to eat or go on on vacation. So we enjoyed a lot of good times in terms of originations as well as not, you know, the performance of the back book. You know, what we're seeing now is kind of a return to normal. From a delinquency perspective, we're seeing a return to almost pre-pandemic levels. But when you look at the actual losses and charge offs and repos, those aren't quite there. So that kind of tells- How do you reconcile that? Yeah, how do you reconcile that? That tells me that the consumer is strained. You know, we've seen used car prices start to normalize. They've come down over the last 12 months, but they're still not at pre-pandemic levels. Interest rates have skyrocketed. So I think consumers are trying to hold on. They know it's hard to get a car. Financing is gonna be more costly. So they're sitting in this perpetual delinquency, but not letting the car roll to loss. And so, you know, so that concerns me.
是啊，我想，在表现方面，我们在疫情期间享受到了最美好的时光，有0%的融资，车辆也很充足，消费者在刺激措施以及不用花钱去上班、吃饭或度假的情况下都有一大笔现金。所以从贷款发放和绩效方面来看，我们享受了很多好时光。现在我们看到的是回归正常的情况。从逾期贷款的角度来看，我们看到逾期率几乎回到了疫情前的水平。然而，实际损失、核销和回收的情况还没有完全回到那个水平。这就说明……你怎么解释这个现象呢？是的，你怎么解释这个现象呢？这让我觉得消费者负担加重了。我们看到二手车价格开始趋于正常化，过去12个月来已经下降了，但还没有回到疫情前的水平。利率暴涨。所以我认为消费者在尽力保持，他们知道买车变得困难了，融资成本会更高。所以他们陷入了这一种持续逾期的状态，但是并不让车辆转为损失。这让我感到担忧。
When we talk about the back book, when we look at originations, you've got the same dynamic of affordability. Car prices have skyrocketed. Interest rates are up. General inflation is just putting a, you know, huge pressure on the consumer's wallet. And so it's making harder for the average consumer to buy even a used car, rub alone a new car, which has almost become out of reach for, you know, the average American. Yeah, what do you think the end game is here? I mean, do you think just like, you know, financial products have to evolve to meet the modern day consumer and car prices? Or, you know, do we see like deflation on car prices? Like what do you actually think happens here?
当我们谈到库存时，当我们看到发行量时，你会发现同样有可负担性的动态。汽车价格飙升。利率上涨。普通通胀加大了对消费者钱包的巨大压力。因此，普通消费者买二手车甚至是新车都变得更加困难，对普通美国人来说几乎变得无法触及。是的，你认为最终结果会怎样？我的意思是，你认为金融产品是否必须与现代消费者和汽车价格相适应？或者我们会看到汽车价格的通缩？你实际上认为会发生什么呢？
Yeah, that's tough. I think, you know, we're gonna have to see some, some lower cost options in the market. You know, we've seen new car prices skyrocket because of the options. And especially now with the shift to EVs, there's a lot of R&D costs that has to be moved on, you know, priced into the cost of the car. I think we're gonna have to see some lower cost options for consumers. And I know a lot of OEMs are looking into that and creating the right product that consumers can afford.
是的，那确实很困难。我认为，你知道，我们将不得不在市场上看到一些更低成本的选择。我们已经看到新车的价格因为各种选择而飙升。尤其是现在转向电动车，有大量的研发成本必须计入汽车成本之中。我认为我们将不得不看到一些消费者能够承担的低成本选择。我知道许多汽车制造商正在研究这个问题，并创造出适合消费者的合适产品。
And then that's on the new car side. When we think about the used car side, we're still, I think we're still grappling with a bit of a supply challenge. And so once we start to see that supply and normalize, you know, only then can we see some relief. And then, you know, in terms of the interest rate environment, that just makes it even more challenging. So we're gonna have to see some changes there.
然后这就是全新汽车方面的情况。当我们考虑二手车方面时，我们仍然在应对一些供应挑战。只有当我们开始看到供应逐渐恢复正常，我们才能感到一些缓解。而且，在利率环境方面，这只会更加具有挑战性。所以我们将不得不看到一些变化。
You know, you mentioned financing options. I don't know that extended terms are the answer. You know, I think it's a short term solution where you can bring a payment down. But longer term, it's gonna create challenges for the consumer. If they can't otherwise afford the car, extending that term to me is just kind of prolonging the inevitable, you know, potentially putting them into a negative equity position down the road. So, so that, you know, that may not be the solution.
你知道，你提到了融资选项。我不认为延长期限是个解决办法。我觉得这只是个短期的解决方案，可以降低付款额。但从长远来看，这样做会给消费者带来挑战。如果他们本来就负担不起这辆车，延长贷款期限只是在拖延不可避免的事情，可能会使他们未来处于负债的境地。所以，这可能不是解决方案。
Yeah, do you see on the topic of extended term, do you see a future where like 96 month used car loans or just like a common everyday reality? Do you think that's viable and likely to happen? Yeah, that's tough. And we're, you know, we're very rigid with our extended terms. You know, only 12% of our portfolio is 73 to 75 month. Only 2% is over 84. And where we do offer the extended terms, it's typically going to be a prime customer. We want to make sure that the customer can afford the car, you know, in, you know, contrary to popular belief, we don't want a customer to default. We don't make money when a customer charges off or is re-bowed. So it's very important for us to, for us and the customer to assess the affordability up front. So when we do offer an extended term, we're going to make sure that there isn't layered risk, you know, such as high LTV, you know, high mileage on a car, really a unit that, a unit or a borrower that really shouldn't qualify for an extended term. So, you know, I think 96 month terms, it may be a solution for a customer that can otherwise afford the car. And by choice wants to, you know, maybe reduce the cash flow impact, but I don't think it's a solution where we're going to put customers into cars that can't afford and just spread it over a longer term. I don't think it goes for us or the customer.
是的，关于长期贷款的话题，你认为96个月的二手车贷款会成为普遍现实吗？你认为这是可行且可能发生的吗？嗯，这个问题很难回答。对于我们来说，我们对于长期贷款非常严格。我们的贷款组合中，只有12%是73到75个月的，只有2%超过84个月的贷款。而且我们只会向一等客户提供长期贷款。我们希望确保客户能够负担得起这辆车。与普遍观点相反，我们不希望客户违约。当客户无法偿还或被强制收回车辆时，我们就没有收益。所以对我们来说，对我们和客户来说，事先评估购车的负担能力非常重要。因此，当我们提供长期贷款时，我们会确保没有其他风险，比如车辆的高贷款比例、高里程等。这样的贷款不应该适用于过长的期限。所以，我认为96个月的贷款期限可能适用于那些本来就能负担得起这辆车的客户，而且他们自愿选择在现金流上减少压力。但我不认为这是一个我们将客户推入无法负担的车辆并将贷款期限延长的解决方案。这不符合我们和客户的利益。
You mentioned something that like, is that really a misconception that you benefit when someone repos gets repo? Is that like a misconception out there? It absolutely is. Our goal is to work with the customer, keep them in the car. We've got stringent requirements up front in terms of assessing capacity to repay. We want to make sure the customer can afford the car. And then from a servicing perspective, we want to do all that we can to work with the customer and help them to stay in that car. That's why, you know, we do have an active outreach program and we encourage our customers to work with us when they are coming across challenging times.
你提到了一些听起来像是误解，这真的是一个误解吗？当有人的再融资被再融资时，你会从中受益吗？这是一个普遍的误解。我们的目标是与客户合作，让他们继续使用这辆车。我们设立了严格的前期要求来评估偿还能力。我们希望确保客户能够负担得起这辆车。从服务的角度来看，我们希望尽一切努力与客户合作，帮助他们保留这辆车。这也是为什么我们拥有一个积极主动的外联计划，并鼓励客户在遇到困难时与我们合作的原因。
You know, one thing that I've learned in this business is that one of the best ways to mitigate repos and, you know, also help you as a dealer with your portfolio in the long term is simply, I mean, simply, you know, easier said than done, but properly reconditioning the vehicle. I think the stats are like, you know, 50% of repos or something like that are from customers where the vehicle broke down or they can't afford repairs. I think, you know, you can correct me for wrong on that. But what we saw is that, you know, just properly reconditioning it, then, of course, you know, being reinsured as a dealer, you know, meaning you are your own captive, you're providing your own captive, you know, vehicle service contracts to your consumers, right, where you're actually profiting from the underwriting, profit or loss.
你知道，在这个行业中，我学到的一件事就是，减少赎回车辆的一个最好方法，同时也能帮助你作为经销商管理你的投资组合长期的方法就是，我是说，简单地重新调整车辆的状况。我认为数据如50%的赎回车辆是因为客户的车辆损坏或无力维修。我认为，你可以纠正我如果我错了。但是我们观察到，只要适当地重新调整车辆，并且作为经销商自己的损失车辆赔付保险提供给消费者，你就可以从其中获利，因为你为承保负责，你从核保获得盈亏。
Anyways, very wordy, but long story short being that it was tremendously helpful in reducing just loss ratios throughout the portfolio because, you know, you invest a little bit more in that car, make sure that the consumer is as much as you can. It's a machine, but as much as you can, that it's going to last them a while, maybe even give them a little, you know, coaching again, as much as you can on maintenance. It's not always perfect. It's far from it. Lots of people don't listen. Lots of people don't care. Lots of people don't have the money, but it definitely helps you. And at the end of the day, if you take these couple steps proactively just build into your process, you know, we found that it just really does help with long-term performance of your portfolio.
无论如何，话虽多，但长话短说，它在降低整个投资组合的损失率方面确实起到了巨大的帮助，因为你要在那辆车上多投资一点，确保消费者在很大程度上获益。它只是一台机器，但尽可能地让它能够持续使用一段时间，甚至给他们一点指导，尽可能地关注维护。它并不总是完美的，离完美还有很大距离。很多人不听取建议，很多人不关心，很多人没有钱，但它确实会帮助你。最终，如果你主动采取这些步骤加入到你的流程中，我们发现它确实能够提高投资组合的长期表现。
Absolutely. And I would even say making sure that upfront you've got policy restrictions on collateral and the type of collateral that you underwrite. So I think that that will make that as well.
当然，我甚至会说，在事先确保您有担保政策限制和对担保类型的审核时，这很重要。所以我认为这也很重要。
Yeah, I think, you know, I do feel like most of the dealers that I speak with are generally long-term thinkers. And that's why they consume this type of content and because they actually care. You know, there's always bad apples in every bunch, but I think those dealers do think about like, Hey, how can I, you know, make sure that my portfolio with, you know, X lender is great for many years to come. And so my business thrives because at the end of the day, as a dealer, you know, if you can't lend, if you don't have the right lending partners, the lending relationships, you're not putting any car on that road.
是的，我认为你知道，我确实感觉大部分我与之交谈的经销商通常都是长期思考的人。这也是为什么他们消费这种类型的内容，并且他们真的关心这个。你知道，在每一堆里总有一些坏苹果，但我认为那些经销商确实会思考，比如说，嘿，我怎么样才能确保我和X贷方的合作伙伴关系在未来几年中仍然很好，这样我的生意才能蓬勃发展。因为说到底，作为一家经销商，如果你不能提供贷款，如果你没有正确的贷款伙伴和贷款关系，那么你就无法上路。
That's right. Very few. That's right. Yeah.
是的，非常少。是的，对。
So, so transitioning, you mentioned EVs. When it comes to quantifying the risk in EVs versus, you know, internal combustion, like, how are you doing that right now? So we're still early in the game. So I think like everyone else, we're, you know, we're working through the risks. Um, you know, clearly battery life is, is, is a concern. Um, the cost to repair that vehicle once the battery goes, um, may or may not be worth keeping the vehicle. Um, to the extent we leave CVs, there's, there's obviously a potential impact on residual values.
所以，关于转型，你提到了电动汽车。当涉及到评估电动汽车与内燃机车的风险时，你现在是如何做到这一点的？我们还处在游戏的早期阶段。所以我认为和其他人一样，我们正在努力解决这些风险。显然，电池续航是一个问题。电池损坏后维修车辆的成本可能或可能不值得维护该车辆。在一定程度上，如果我们离开传统汽车，显然会对其剩余价值造成潜在影响。
Um, so what we're seeing, you know, currently is most of our EV volume is with prime customers. Um, you know, the typical auto loan will cycle off in about two and a half years. Um, and EVs are still relatively new to the market. So I don't think we're at that point in the life cycle of EVs that it's, it's an imminent concern, but it's definitely something that we continue to monitor. Um, we currently don't have, uh, any specific policies or restrictions related to EVs, but again, it's something we monitor. Um, is we start to see the EV units in the market, um, start to age. I think that's something that, uh, you know, we're well aware is going to bring us on risk and we'll continue to assess them with that.
嗯，所以我们目前看到的情况是，大多数的电动车销售都是向高价值客户销售的。典型的汽车贷款周期大约是两年半。而电动车在市场上相对较新。因此我不认为我们已经到了电动车生命周期的紧迫关切阶段，但这绝对是我们继续监测的事情。目前我们没有针对电动车的特定政策或限制，但会继续对其进行监测。当电动车数量在市场上开始增加时，我认为它们开始老化会带来一定风险，我们将持续对此进行评估。
Yeah. I mean, to me, you know, assuming there's some greater level of dispersion and value of, you know, a 10 year old EV versus a 10 year old internal combustion vehicle versus what we know today, it feels like there's an opportunity there as well, right? Whoever can properly assess, um, you know, the, the risk on that collateral and that loan, uh, you know, feels like nowadays it could just be a really big competitive advantage when everyone is, you know, it feels like scrambling in a way or not exactly knowing how aggressive to be when putting out a loan for an EV.
是的。我的意思是，对我来说，假设在一个10年前的电动车和一个10年前的内燃机车辆以及我们今天所知道的价值之间有一些更大的差异，感觉上也有机会，对吧？谁能够正确评估那个贷款和抵押品的风险，现在看起来就像是一个非常大的竞争优势，当每个人都感觉在某种程度上匆忙或者不确定在为电动车发放贷款时要多么激进的时候。
That's awesome. Going on the lines of, you mentioned earlier, uh, collections and repos. So back on that line for a second, right? Tell us a little bit about just like the nitty gritty of that side of the world. Like what does your recovery network look like? How do you locate a vehicle? Like how does all this actually work behind the scenes?
太棒了。继续你之前提到的那个话题，嗯，关于收藏品和存储库。所以接着说这个话题，对吧？告诉我们一些关于这个世界的琐碎细节吧。你的回收网络是什么样的？你是如何查找一辆车的？幕后所有这些事情是如何运作的？
Yeah. So, um, so we have a network of forwarders that we use. Um, and just thinking back to my Chrysler financial days, I think back in probably 2008, 2009 is when a lot of lenders started to move into that. Um, and part of it was just the complexity of managing a gigantic vendor network across all states. Um, so, you know, we do have a network that we use. Um, we, as I mentioned, we typically like to work with the customer. Um, we, we don't want a repo a car. Um, so we will, you know, we have active outreach programs, whether it's calls, texts, uh, making sure that we've given the customer ample opportunity to, um, ask for help. Um, and really, uh, you know, work with us. Um, but then unfortunately, we know that sometimes, uh, repo is the only option. So, you know, in that case, um, you know, we do, um, try to, as you mentioned, recondition the car, make sure we're maximizing the value. Um, and then working with our forwarders, providing whatever information we have in terms of last known address. Um, you know, other tools that we use to try to locate the customer. Um, and then, you know, it's the typical industry tools that the repo agents will use, like the license recognition.
是的，我们有一 网络，我们使用的报关公司网络。回想一下我在克莱斯勒金融的日子，大概是在2008年或2009年吧，当时许多贷款人开始涉足这一领域。部分原因是管理跨越所有州的巨大供应商网络非常复杂。所以，我们有一套自己的报关公司网络。正如我之前提到的，我们通常喜欢与客户合作。我们不想收车。因此，我们会积极主动地与客户进行沟通，无论是通过电话、短信还是其他方式，确保我们为客户提供足够的机会寻求帮助，与我们合作。但不幸的是，我们知道有时回收车辆是唯一的选择。在这种情况下，我们会尽力对车辆进行翻新，确保最大化价值。然后与我们的报关公司合作，提供我们所拥有的客户最后住址等任何信息。我们还会使用其他工具来尝试寻找客户，再加上典型的行业工具，例如车牌识别等，这是回收代理人通常会使用的工具。
Um, and then typically, you know, once we assign a car out for repo, our average time to recoveries about about 10 days.
嗯，通常情况下，我们一旦指派了一辆汽车进行充公，我们平均需要大约10天的时间来收回汽车。
Oh, I mean, sounds quick to me. You mentioned, you mentioned like resources working with the customer. I think that's a really important point to hammer because, you know, I think some people out there think that, you know, customer may kind of fall into some financial issues, some time passes, car disappears. But what you're stating is really important, um, that, you know, you, like you mentioned, you have outreach programs, you work with customers, there's resources, right? You're really trying to mitigate this.
噢，我的意思是，听起来很快。你提到过，你提到过与客户合作的资源。我认为这是一个非常重要的点要强调，因为，你知道的，我觉得有些人可能会认为，你知道的，客户可能会陷入一些财务问题，一段时间过去了，车子消失了。但你所说的真的很重要，呃，你知道的，你有外展项目，你与客户合作，有资源，对吧？你真的在努力减轻这种情况。
When it comes to like, uh, trends that you're noticing with, um, fraud or is there anything, it was specifically with respect to repossessions. Are you noticing an uptick in any forms of fraud leading to repossessions or is there something that's happening right now that you're noticing in the economy?
说到，嗯，您注意到的关于欺诈的趋势，或者特别是与车辆回收相关的问题。您是否注意到了任何导致车辆回收的欺诈形式的增加，或者您是否注意到当前经济中正在发生的一些情况？
One more thing to note there before you pre respond. I recently had a guy named Frank McKenna on the podcast from point predictive, which is like a fraud analytics or, you know, they do a lot of different analytics and technology for the industry. Um, and he was just talking to us about all the new types of fraud that are arising because of just, uh, the situation, you know, um, the, the kind of the macro situation that led us to this point in the, in the economic cycle.
在你预先回应之前，还有一件事需要注意。最近我在播客上采访了一位名叫Frank McKenna的人，他来自point predictive公司，该公司提供欺诈分析以及各种行业的分析和技术服务。他向我们讲述了由于目前的宏观经济环境造成的各种新型欺诈行为。
So I'm curious, you know, from your perspective, I see you nodding. Uh, what are you seeing when it comes with respect to fraud and, you know, repossessions?
所以我很好奇，你知道的，从你的角度来看，我看到你点头。嗯，当涉及到欺诈和回收时，你看到了什么呢？
Yeah, I think, you know, when we think of fraud or at least, you know, traditionally as kind of bad guys trying to, you know, get cars. Um, but you know, what we're seeing now, I think it is, is, is very different. It's, it's a product of the macro environment where, you know, you've got customers that are just stuck and, and, um, you know, we're, we're seeing, um, bad payments to avoid repossession. Um, you know, quick paydowns with an attempt to trade the car.
是的，我想，在我们想到欺诈或者至少传统上被认为是坏人试图偷车的时候，你知道，它是非常不同的。这是宏观环境的产物，我们看到的是顾客感到被困，我们看到的是为了避免被回收而产生的坏付款。他们会尝试迅速偿还贷款以换取一辆车。
So I think it's, you know, we're seeing a lot more, uh, impacts of the economy and just desperation versus, um, you know, like we've all been familiar with fraud rings in the past where it's a little more organized. Um, I think now it's just a sign of the times and the challenges that we're seeing in the economy.
所以我认为，你知道的，我们正在看到更多的经济影响以及绝望，相比起过去我们所熟悉的那种有点有组织的欺诈团伙。我认为现在这只是时代的一种标志，以及我们在经济中所面临的挑战。
Um, and then the other trend I would say is, you know, as you move to digital and online, um, you start to see more synthetic IDs. Um, you know, I think that's one thing that I love about the dealer model is the customer goes to the dealer. There's an actual human being there and, uh, you know, they can verify their identity and look at their driver's license and make sure they're, um, in fact, a real person. So I think, you know, as we start to move more to digital, that's something that we're going to have to be proactive and, and be able to solve for, um, you know, right now we've even, even in the digital channels that we participate in, it's still typically a dealer delivery.
嗯，另一个趋势我要说的是，随着你转向数字和在线，你开始看到更多的合成身份。你知道，我认为这就是我喜欢经销商模式的原因之一，顾客去经销商那里。那里有真正的人在那里，他们可以验证顾客的身份，看一看他们的驾驶执照，确保他们是真实存在的人。所以，我认为，随着我们开始更多地转向数字，这是我们必须积极主动解决的问题，就算是我们目前参与的数字渠道中，通常也是经销商交付。
But I think in the future, we're going to see potentially some contactless delivery. And that's where I think there's a big propensity for fraud.
但是我认为在未来，我们可能会看到一些无接触的送货方式。而我认为在这种情况下会存在很大的欺诈倾向。
Yeah. So, and you, you had, you have a partnership with auto fi, I believe, right?
是的，所以你与 Auto Fi 合作，对吗？
We do. Yeah. So auto fi is actually a partner of the podcast. So shout out, auto fi, but tell me about, tell me, how do you balance that? Right? Well, you just mentioned like, how do you balance going digital? Right. And working with, you know, great companies that are in the digital lending space or, you know, helping get a moral online sale and lending, um, facilitated for customers versus what you just mentioned, right? Being physically on the dealership, having a human, you know, confirmed identity of someone. How do you balance those two things?
我们做到了。是的。所以，Auto Fi实际上是该播客的合作伙伴。因此，向Auto Fi喊话，但告诉我，你能谈谈吗？你如何平衡这个？对，你刚刚提到，你如何平衡数字化和与那些在数字借贷领域或帮助客户在线销售和放贷的伟大公司合作，与你刚刚提到的，在车行里亲自确认某人身份的方式？你如何平衡这两者之间的关系？
So, so I think our approach, at least in the short to medium term is to continue to leverage the dealer network. Um, we are in indirect auto business. Um, we rely on our dealers heavily. We view our dealers as our customer and we see them as integral to the carbine process.
所以，我认为我们的做法，至少在短期和中期，是继续利用经销商网络。嗯，我们处在间接汽车业务中。嗯，我们严重依赖我们的经销商。我们把他们视为我们的客户，认为他们在购车过程中起着重要作用。
Um, I know other lenders have tried to do direct to consumer. Um, I worked for one. It was very challenged in that, you know, you're spending this money up front to market to the consumer and have your own sales team talking to the consumer, pull a bureau, do a decision structure that deal only for the customer to go to the dealer. And then you see that same loan come through and fulfill on your indirect channel. You know, in that scenario, there, there was a dealer compensation component, but um, but still it ended up flipping to the indirect channel.
嗯，我知道其他贷款机构也试图直接面向消费者。嗯，我之前在其中一家工作过。在那家公司中，面临了很多挑战，因为你需要预先投资推销给消费者，而且还要组建自己的销售团队与消费者接触，进行征信查询和决策，最终只为了消费者去找经销商。然后你就会看到同一笔贷款通过间接渠道得到履行。在这种情况下，确实存在经销商的补偿组成部分，但最终结果还是转向了间接渠道。
So the approach we're taking is to partner with our dealers. Um, but to give the customer the opportunity to be in the driver's seat, no pun intended. You know, to me, those two, three years during COVID, I saw a lot more movement to digital than I did in my entire career.
所以我们采取的方法是与经销商合作。嗯，但是给顾客提供机会掌控主动权，不是开玩笑的。你知道，在我看来，COVID期间的那两三年，我看到的数字化进展比我的整个职业生涯都要多。
Um, so I think we need to piggyback off of that. I think the consumer wants to be educated. They want to be able to shop for the car. Um, they want to be able to understand what they qualify for, what their payment is going to be. Um, and feel like they're, you know, they're in control of choosing their financing.
嗯，我认为我们需要依靠这一点。我认为消费者希望受到教育。他们希望能够购买汽车。嗯，他们希望能够理解自己有资格购买什么车型，支付多少款项。嗯，并且感觉自己能够选择自己的融资方式，并对此有控制权。
Um, so what we've built with auto-fi is, um, our drive U S platform, you know, that we're currently piloting in Arizona and in Texas. And it lets the customer do just that. Um, but we've also piped in, um, to our dealer net, to our dealer network and dealer inventory. So essentially here we're working with our customers and letting them generate a shop for their car. Um, understand what payments they can afford. Um, they can shop at payment. They could shop by unit. Um, but then also this helps our dealers because we're helping generate leads on that side as well. So, you know, maybe down the road, there, there is a model where the dealer's not involved. I, I don't see it. Um, in the, in the near term, so we're continuing to just celebrate or do our network, but then also give the customer, um, some options.
嗯，我们通过auto-fi所构建的是我们的drive US平台，目前我们正在亚利桑那州和德克萨斯州进行试点。这让顾客可以做到这一点。但我们还将它与我们的经销商网络和经销商库存相结合。因此，在这里，我们与顾客合作，让他们为他们的汽车购物。了解他们能负担得起的付款方式。他们可以按付款方式购物。他们可以按单位购物。但同时，这也有助于我们的经销商，因为我们也在帮助他们产生潜在客户。所以，也许在将来，经销商可能不再参与进来。我不认为会出现这种模式，至少在近期内是这样。所以我们将继续庆祝或扩大我们的网络，同时也给顾客提供一些选择。
Yeah. Do you, but do you think there's any embedded, just, um, advantages when you're like a vertically integrated player, like, let's say, Carvana, right? They have their own lending arm and whatnot. So do you think there's, does that just offer like an embedded advantage where you maybe have some more like fraud mitigation and it's easier to do the online transaction or do you think that that ultimately gets commoditized across the industry and every dealer can, you know, sort of operate to those standards, you know, in an online, in an online way. What do you think about that?
是的。你随意做你自己，但你认为像卡瓦纳这样的垂直一体化企业是否存在一些内在的优势呢？比如说，他们有自己的贷款机构等等。所以你认为这是否提供了一种内置的优势，比如更容易防止欺诈和进行在线交易，或者你认为这最终会在整个行业中变成商品化，并且每个经销商都可以以在线方式运营符合这些标准。你对此有什么看法？
Yeah. I think it's the letter. I think where, you know, the auto industry, when somebody figures it out, others quickly, um, you know, follow. So I think, you know, to the extent that they can, you know, find the secret sauce to fully preventing fraud, I think, you know, I think you're going to see other lenders or other, uh, OEMs dealers, lenders quickly piggyback on that. But I think that the challenge when you're operating vertically is, um, you still have to have lender partners. Um, they're still going to need access to capital. Um, it's cyclical. Um, you're going to, maybe you excel in a certain area of lending, but I think you still need a partner to, it's complimentary. So even where you see, um, some of our other partners, whether it's, um, national accounts or, um, you know, other, um, auto, you know, like, like Carmax is a great example. I know they, they, they have their own captive, but they also have lender partners. It's, it's, um, just a matter of having options and having partners that are complimentary where they may excel in an area where you don't, and vice versa.
是的，我认为这就是这封信的意思。我觉得当有人找到解决方案时，其他人很快就会跟进，尤其是在汽车行业。所以我认为，只要他们能够找到完全防止欺诈的秘密配方，你会看到其他借款人或其他原始设备制造商的经销商、贷款人很快会参与其中。但是我认为，当你垂直运营时，面临的挑战在于，你仍然需要有贷款人合作伙伴。他们仍然需要获取资金。这是一个循环的过程。也许你在某个贷款领域表现出色，但我认为你仍然需要一个合作伙伴来相辅相成。所以即使在我们的其他合作伙伴身上，无论是国家级客户还是像Carmax这样的汽车公司，我知道他们有自己的专有贷款机构，但他们也有贷款人合作伙伴。它只是一种选择多样性和互补性合作伙伴的问题，他们可能在你不擅长的领域表现出色，反之亦然。
Yeah. I totally agree with that. I think no one balance sheet. Once all of the loans and all of that risk, you know, everyone has different preferences. So that makes total sense. Um, you know, you mentioned, you mentioned, um, being, uh, being able to, um, did deal with all types of loans. So I thought there I had is what do you do with all the loans, right? Like you, you, um, underwrite you then, uh, create all these loans. What do you actually do with them?
是的，我完全同意。我认为没有一个平衡表。一旦所有贷款和风险都考虑进去，你知道，每个人都有不同的偏好。所以这是完全有道理的。嗯，你提到了，你提到了，能够处理各种类型的贷款。所以我想问的是，你对所有的贷款都做些什么呢？比如说，你进行审核，然后再创建所有这些贷款。那你实际上对它们做些什么呢？
So the loans sit on our balance sheet and, and we service them. Um, but, um, we are also the second largest issuer in the auto ABS market. Um, so I did not know that. Yep. We are the second largest. So, um, yeah. So check us out. Um, so that gives us an, an, we have a ton of investors and like hedge funds that listed to this. So that's actually a good plug. And, and I would, I would hope they're already familiar with us, but it's not let me know. Yeah. I'm sure they are. You touch with the right people here. Um, but yeah. So we, we will, um, sometimes securitize the loans to raise capital. It's just an efficient way of funding for us. Um, so we pledge the loans, but they still sit on our balance sheet and we still service them. Mm hmm. And what do you keep, do you keep some? Do you like sell, like how do you decide, uh, what to keep for us, what to sell and and all that? It, it just depends on the time and the market and the pricing. Um, we've got, um, alternate sources of funding. So it's just a matter of, of balance, balancing. Um, so, you know, if we want to go to the capital markets, but, uh, maybe the pricing isn't right for the time, you know, we can, we can, uh, not wait and, and sell it another time or seek alternate funding.
所以贷款在我们的资产负债表上，我们为其提供服务。但是，我们也是汽车贷款资产证券化市场的第二大发行人。嗯，我之前并不知道的。是的，我们是第二大。所以，嗯，来了解一下我们。嗯，这使得我们有很多投资者和对我们有兴趣的对冲基金。所以这其实是一个很好的推销点。我希望他们已经对我们很熟悉，但如果不是的话，请让我知道。是的，我相信他们是的。你在这里接触到了正确的人。但是，嗯，我们有时会对贷款进行证券化以筹集资本。这只是一种高效的资金筹集方式。我们用贷款作为抵押，但仍然留在我们的资产负债表上并为其提供服务。嗯嗯。你们会保留一部分贷款吗？你们会卖出一部分吗？你们是如何决定我们要保留什么，卖出什么的？这取决于时间、市场和价格。我们有备选的资金来源。所以只是一个平衡的问题。你知道，如果我们想要进入资本市场，但是可能目前的定价不合适，我们可以选择等待，并在另一个时间卖出或寻找替代资金。
Yeah. So this question is not exclusive to something there, but just, you know, being the position you're at, right? A lot of dealers are saying, Hey, you know, like my, my bank fees or acquisition fees, right? When I'm doing a loan with a subprime customer, I have to pay an acquisition fee to the lender. Um, and that's to, you know, reduce the loan to value and, you know, reduce the risk, right? That's a very simplistic way to put it. But lots of dealers are saying, you know, Hey, my acquisition fees are, are rising. Um, you know, LTVs are, are dropping, right? I'm, I'm having trouble getting customers approved. Like what's the, you know, explain to us like a, to me, like a third grader, like why is that happening? What's happening behind the scenes that's leading to that?
是的。所以这个问题不仅仅适用于某个特定情况，而是说，你知道的，就是你所处的位置，对吧？很多经销商都在说，嘿，你知道的，我的银行费用或者收购费用，对吧？当我给次级贷款客户办理贷款时，我必须向借款人支付一笔收购费用。嗯，这是为了降低贷款价值与风险的。这只是一个简单的说法。但是很多经销商都在说，我的收购费用在增加。同时，贷款价值在降低。我很难获得客户的批准。像我这样的小学三年级生，可以给我们解释一下为什么会发生这种情况？背后发生了什么？
Um, so, you know, in terms of structure and credit, um, I think that just comes down to affordability. Um, we did not get aggressive during the pandemic when times were good. And, uh, you know, we, we don't want to be aggressive now either. So we want to make sure that, um, like we talked about earlier that we're assessing at the individual level, not the portfolio level that the customer can afford that loan. So I think that's, um, that's the first piece. Um, then in terms of fees, um, you know, if you think about the subprime customer, the prime, the prime customer is going to feel the increases of the interest rate environment, um, because they're used to two, three, four percent interest rates. And then you see the interest rates going up. If you're a subprime customer and you're already at, um, you know, the, the maximum interest rates for your state, we can't price that loan any higher.
嗯，所以，你知道的，在结构和信用方面，嗯，我认为这仅仅取决于可负担性。嗯，在疫情期间，当时好时机我们没有采取激进行动。而且，你知道的，现在我们也不想激进。所以我们要确保像我们之前讨论的那样，我们在个人水平上进行评估，而不是整个投资组合的水平，以确保客户能够承担那笔贷款。所以我认为这是首要问题。然后在费用方面，如果你考虑次级客户，首要客户会感受到利率环境的增加，因为他们习惯于2%，3%，4%的利率。然后你会看到利率上涨。而如果你是次级客户，已经处于你所在州允许的最高利率，我们无法将贷款定价得更高。
But with our cost of funds, increase the money's got to come from somewhere. So our cost of funds has increased. Um, you know, we need to price for the risk of that loan, the cost of servicing that loan. And so to the extent that we can't make up that margin and price for the risk and price for the servicing, um, that's where, you know, we may introduce that as a fee. Um, or in some cases, cases cut back the structure to reduce the risk of the loan.
但是随着我们资金成本的增加，资金就必须从某个地方得到。所以我们的资金成本增加了。嗯，你知道的，我们需要对那笔贷款的风险进行定价，还要考虑贷款的服务成本。因此，如果我们无法弥补这个差距，无法为风险和服务成本定价，那在这种情况下，我们可能会引入一项费用。或者在某些情况下，减少结构以降低贷款风险。
And when it comes to the macro, like with interest rates being where they're at and spreads as well, can you talk just a little bit about that? Like how does that impact your ability to then sell off some loans where the market is maybe pricing these, you know, these bundles differently than they would have two years ago.
当涉及到宏观经济问题时，比如利率和利差的现状，你能谈谈这方面的影响吗？比如，这会如何影响你出售一些贷款，因为市场定价这些捆绑贷款的方式可能与两年前不同。
Yeah. So fortunately we've got a fantastic treasury and securitization team that handles the details of that. But, um, you know, basically, you know, we're going to have a lot of you know, basically they go to market and price will they'll price the deal. And they have the, they take the judgment to decide do we want to place that loan in the market? Um, or is this not the right time? We seek alternate funding sources.
是的。所幸我们有一个出色的财政和证券化团队来处理这些细节。但是，你知道，基本上，我们会有很多，你知道，他们会进入市场并定价这笔交易。他们会根据判断决定我们是否要在市场上放贷？或者现在不是合适的时机？我们还会寻找其他融资来源。
Um, you know, one example of a funding source we have for our prime loans, we leverage our bank balance sheet. So Santander, paint won't America. Um, we do originate loans on their behalf. So we have that as an option where we don't have to sell these loans. We put it on the bank balance sheet. Um, and this would be where, where our prime portfolio sits.
嗯，你知道，我们为我们的优质贷款拥有的一种资金来源的一个例子是利用我们的银行资产负债表。所以圣坦德银行，还有美国山脉银行。嗯，我们代表它们创始贷款。所以我们有这个选择，不必出售这些贷款。我们将其放在银行资产负债表上。嗯，这将是我们优质贷款组合所在之处。
So before we get to the macro, how would it backped off for one second? And earlier you're talking about, uh, like the physical in person customer being at the dealership and how you love that from a, you know, verification standpoint. What about internally when it comes to your, like your underwriters, right? Your actual team, how much of that is still being done by humans versus like computers, machines, behind the scenes. What's the, what's the difference there?
在我们开始讨论宏观问题之前，请您回过头来思考一下。之前您提到了实际面对面的顾客在经销商处的情况，以及您对此从验证角度的喜爱。那么在内部，对于您的核保人员团队来说情况又如何呢？现在有多少工作是由人类而非电脑、机器在幕后完成的？两者之间有什么区别？
So we've got a, a very automated model. Um, you know, and I've worked in for three different auto lenders. And I would say by far, I think we have the best model. Um, we have a decision engine that will run and it will assess credits. It will pull the bureaus. Um, it will run, uh, your, you know, your customer and the KYC in the background. It will run O fact and it will price the loan. This allows us to send a decision to the dealer within seconds.
所以我们有一个非常自动化的模型。嗯，你知道，我在三家不同的汽车贷款公司工作过。我可以说，到目前为止，我认为我们的模型是最好的。我们有一个决策引擎，它将运行并评估信用。它将获取信用报告。它将在后台运行您的客户和KYC。它将运行O fact并确定贷款的价格。这使我们能够在几秒钟内向经销商发送决策结果。
And so I'm sure you know, it's very important that you get a decision right away. If it's too long, then you're not even in the room, you know, other lender that worked at are, we're probably in the 75% automated where 25% goes to, to an underwriter, um, best case.
所以我相信你知道，立即做出决定非常重要。如果太长时间拖延，你甚至可能都不在考虑范围内。你知道，在我们之前工作的其他贷款人可能有75%的决策是自动化的，只有25%会交给核保人员审查，这是最理想的情况。
Um, so this is fantastic, but does it take away the need for underwriters? Absolutely not. We will still see about 20, 30% of our applications where an underwriter actually touches them and works with the dealer. No, we do have a dealer portal that we use. Um, it allows the dealer to be able to go in and make small changes to the application. They could do rehashes within policy, which is fantastic. It's great during busy times. It's great after hours. Um, you know, weekends, although we are open. Um, but there are just times where the dealer needs to talk to an underwriter. They may not understand our program. Um, they may, um, ask if we can make a pricing or policy adjustment, um, or just have to have general questions about the loan.
这个真的很棒，但是它是否可以去掉核保员的需要呢？绝对不会。我们仍然会看到大约20%到30%的申请需要核保员亲自处理并与经销商合作。当然，我们确实有一个经销商门户，它允许经销商进行一些小的申请修改。他们可以在政策范围内进行调整，这真是太棒了。在繁忙时段或非工作时间，这非常方便。虽然我们在周末也是营业的。然而有时候经销商仍然需要与核保员交流。他们可能不理解我们的程序，可能会问我们是否可以进行定价或政策调整，或者只是对贷款有一般性的问题。
So I think our model is great where it leverages the best of automation, um, creates consistency. Um, but also gives the dealer the option if they want to go self serve on our portal, um, for something simple, they can do that. Um, but if not, we still have a team of underwriters that is here and ready and unable to help them. Um, I still think this is a highly, uh, relationship business and we want to keep it that way.
所以我认为我们的模型很棒，它充分利用了自动化的优势，可以创造一致性。同时，如果经销商希望在我们的门户上进行简单的自助服务，他们也可以选择这样做。但是如果不需要自助服务，我们仍然有一支保险核保团队随时准备好来帮助他们。我仍然认为这是一项高度依赖关系的业务，我们希望保持这种方式。
Are you hiring? Some of your resume, not, not for me, but no, but you know what we'll do though. Um, we will, we will put your link into show notes. So, you know, if you are hiring, um, I'm sure lots of you are listening here. Or like I said, our industry and on the lending side. So, you know, maybe we can get something lined up there as well.
你们正在招聘吗？有些人的简历，不是针对我，不是，但是你知道我们会做什么。嗯，我们会在节目备注中放上你的链接。所以，你知道，如果你们在招聘，我相信很多人在这里都在听。或者就像我说的，在我们的行业和放贷方面。所以，也许我们可以在那方面找到一些机会。
Transition to macro, right? Like what's your outlook here for the next couple of years? You know, are you preparing for a quote, unquote higher rates for longer? Or how are you thinking about all this?
转向宏观问题，对吗？请问您对未来几年的前景如何？您是否正在为“更高的利率长期存在”做准备？或者您对这一切是如何思考的？
Yeah, we, we are, um, we are preparing for higher rates for longer. We obviously, um, very closely watch, um, Fed movement. Um, you know, right now it's not looking like we're going to get any relief until I don't want to misspeak, but you know, sometime mid next year. Uh, and it's not going to be, um, a drastic drop. So it, you know, it's going to take time. So, you know, we consider this when we plan our, our volume, when we plan our profitability, we run various scenarios, um, just to try to be ready for each scenario. Um, what we don't want to do is something unnatural. Um, I'm very fortunate that that leadership here has been in the business a long time and they understand that, um, their cycles. Um, so we're not going to do anything unnatural. We're not going to do anything aggressive to try to manage the cycle and force, um, some profitability or some volume that's not there. Um, we're going to stay the course and continue to do what's right for our customers and our dealers and our shareholders.
是的，我们正在为更长时间的高利率做准备。显然，我们非常密切关注联邦储备行动。现在看起来我们不会在明年年中之前得到任何缓解。这不会是一个剧烈的下跌。所以，这需要一些时间。在我们计划我们的贷款量和盈利能力时，我们会考虑到这一点，并进行各种情景的运行，只是为了对每种情况做好准备。我们不想做的是不自然的事情。我很幸运，我们的领导在这个行业已经有很长时间了，他们了解这一周期。我们不会做出任何不自然的事情。我们不会为了管理周期而采取任何激进措施，强迫出现一些不存在的盈利或贷款量。我们将坚持当前的方针，继续为我们的客户、经销商和股东做正确的事情。
Yeah, sounds like a prudent strategy. So you're, you're in survived till 25. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, you just got to, you got to make it through the bat, we made it through the good times and now we got to make it through the bad times. Um, like I mentioned earlier, we did not get aggressive during the good times and tried to over capitalize on that, um, which would then introduce risk down the road and we're not going to do anything, um, aggressive in this cycle either. We just got to stay the course.
是的，听起来像是一个谨慎的策略。所以你，你活到了25岁。是的。有时候，你知道的，你得挺过去，我们挺过了好时光，现在我们得挺过去糟糕的时光。就像我之前提到的，我们没有在好时光变得过于激进，试图过度利用这一点，否则会引入风险，我们在这个周期也不会采取任何激进的行动。我们只需要坚持原计划。
So Betty, you know, we're about to wrap up, you know, what do you have to say, like, to dealers in general, like from your perspective, like what's going to be important or how do you think about the environment that we're entering or that we're already, you know, within and just, you know, as a dealer performing, um, you know, for consumers, right? Again, those lows to perform. Like how do you think about all that?
贝蒂，你知道的，我们即将结束了，你有什么话要对经销商们说的，从你的角度来看，对于他们来说有什么重要的事情，或者你如何看待我们将要进入的环境或者我们已经在其中的环境，以及作为经销商如何为消费者提供服务，这包括如何在各种低迷的情况下提供服务。你是如何思考这些问题的？
Yeah. I, um, you know, like we talked about earlier, this, this is a cycle. We've all been through them. Um, we had a great cycle and now we're, you know, we're facing some challenges. I think we need to just stay the course. And I think what's really important, um, for us internally as well as for the dealers we do business with is to have a strong control environment. Um, we find that our best dealer partners have a strong control environment. Um, it helps prevent fraud. It helps prevent income inflation, power working and consumer harm in general. Um, and it helps our partnership dealers need lenders and lenders need dealers. And I think this is something we can do to help each other. Um, till we come out on the other side of this.
是的。嗯，你知道，就像我们之前讨论的那样，这是一个循环。我们都经历过这种情况。嗯，我们经历了一个很好的周期，现在我们面临一些挑战。我认为我们只需要坚持原计划。而且，我认为对于我们内部以及我们与经销商合作的伙伴来说，拥有一个强大的控制环境非常重要。我们发现，我们最好的经销商合作伙伴都有一个强大的控制环境。这有助于防止欺诈行为，防止收入夸大，防止权力滥用和减少消费者伤害。而且，这有助于我们的合作伙伴，经销商需要贷款人，贷款人需要经销商。我认为这是我们可以互相帮助的事情，直到我们走出困境。
Yeah. It's good advice. And I think that, you know, there isn't like one, you know, one silver bullet when it comes to controls from my experience, you know, I think it's, it's a combination of a lot of different things, uh, especially at the dealership when you have, you know, some people rotating seats, they come with different habits. So we always found, you know, my two cents at least, it's just, if you set very clear expectations up front, um, and make it very like just abundantly clear. Like these are like your standards, you know, deviate from them under any circumstance and you're kind of thinking long term. Most people will do the right thing.
是的，这是个好建议。根据我的经验，对于控制措施并没有一种万能的解决办法，而是需要结合许多不同的因素。尤其是在汽车经销商这样的地方，人们在轮流工作时会有不同的习惯。所以我们一直都觉得，至少我个人认为，如果你在一开始就设定非常明确的期望，并明确地表达出来，就像是这些是你的标准，无论任何情况下都不能偏离。考虑的是长远的利益，大多数人会做正确的事情。
Um, and just sort of, you know, adapt to the way you operate in whatever business. Um, some people won't and, you know, those people don't last, but I feel like most people really do, you know, want to do the right thing when it comes from the top, you know, when it, when it doesn't come from the top, that's a bit of a different story. So in my experience, I haven't met a lot of bad dealers, but there may be bad actors within store. Um, it happens. And so having that strong control environment to be able to detect it, prevent it, that's key.
嗯，只要你能适应你所从事的任何业务的方式，就可以了解到我的意思。嗯，有些人不会这样做，而那些人无法持久，但我觉得大多数人真的会希望做正确的事情，这是因为他们受到了来自上层的引导，而当没有来自上层的引导时，情况就会有所不同。所以根据我的经验，我没有遇到过太多不好的交易商，但店铺内可能存在不良行为者。这是经常发生的事情。因此，拥有强大的控制环境来检测和防止这种情况是关键。
Awesome. Betty, this has been an incredible conversation. Um, if anyone wants to learn more about you or, you know, Santander, you know, positions at Santander working with Santander, uh, working to go to learn more. They can go to sent and or consumer USA.com.
太棒了，Betty，这次对话真是太棒了。嗯，如果有人想要了解更多关于你和桑坦德以及桑坦德的职位工作，或者想要进一步了解，他们可以访问sentandor或者consumer USA.com。
Amazing.
太棒了。
And we'll also put the link in the show notes below, uh, with your info and the website, uh, Betty.
我们还会在下方的节目说明中放上链接，包括您的信息和网站的链接，Betty。
So I got for you.
我为你准备好了。
Okay.
好的。
Awesome conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate your time.
太棒了的对话。非常感谢你接待我。我很感激你的时间。
And thank you for all the dealers that do business with us.
感谢所有与我们合作的经销商。
And if you don't do business with us, come check us out.
如果你不和我们做生意，也可以来看看我们。
All right.
好的。
Hope you enjoyed that episode. Please give the podcast a rating.
希望你喜欢这一集。请给这个播客评个分。
Consider subscribing to the show and check the show notes for links to what we talked about.
考虑订阅该节目并查看节目注释中我们谈论的相关链接。
Thanks for tuning in.
谢谢您的收听。
I'll see you guys next time.
下次见，大家。