From Garage to Goliath: The Unstoppable Rise of DealerRater

A few years ago we got a review from a woman who just got her car back from service and she found some McDonald's wrappers in the backseat and she wondered where those had come from and it turns out that she had a dash cam on her car and the footage was rolling while her car was in for service and she saw that a couple service advisors had taken the car out for a pretty lengthy trip ride taken it all around town, stopped in McDonald's at the drive-through and ate their food in the car and then a couple of them by mistake left a wrapper in the car they were trying to clean up their tracks but she was pretty upset that they had taken her car for a 15 mile joy ride this was not just like a safety check this was a this was a

几年前，我们收到了一个女士的反馈，她刚从修车厂取回她的车，却在后座上发现了一些麦当劳的包装纸。她想知道那些垃圾是从哪儿来的。结果，她的车上安装了一个行车记录仪，在她的车在修车厂维修期间，记录仪一直在记录。她看到了有几个服务顾问驾驶她的车在城镇里四处游荡，甚至还在麦当劳的驾车窗口停下，在车里吃完饭后，他们还在车上留下了包装纸。这些人试图清理他们的足迹，但是她非常生气，因为她的车被他们开出去玩，并且行驶了15英里。这不仅仅是一个安全检查，这让人难以接受。

What's up everyone this is car dealership guy you're listening to the car dealership guy podcast which is my effort to give you access to the most unbiased and transparent insights into the car market let's get into today's episode Jamie older shall is VP of reputation strategy at cars commerce and GM of dealerator the world's leading car dealer review website in this conversation we discussed launch and dealerator going from startup to a profitable enterprise incentivizing dealership salespeople secrets to carvana's customer service operations leveraging AI at the dealership today's top issues for car buyers and much more but before we get into the show i'd like to thank cars commerce for coming on as a guest and also sponsoring this episode i talk a lot on this podcast about how complicated and disconnected our industry can be with so many different moving parts so as a cars.com dealer inspire customer of many years i was excited to hear Alex vetter announce his team's vision to simplify dealership technology as cars commerce if you missed it they've been connecting the most valuable audience from their cars.com marketplace with innovative technology and media solutions such as dealer inspire accurate and her newly formed cars commerce media network so now this platform means you can work with one partner to advertise to consumers you know are in the market guide them through a seamless customer experience from online to in store and quickly build a differentiated reputation in your market simple that's what we need to improve the customer experience and future-proof local retailers go to cars commerce dot ink or visit the link in the show notes below to see how you can simplify your business and grow profitability

大家好，我是汽车经销商小伙伴，你们正在收听我的汽车经销商播客，这是我为大家提供最为公正和透明的汽车市场深度洞察的努力。现在，我们来听听今天的节目。Jamie Oldershaw 是 Cars Commerce 的声誉策略副总裁以及 Dealerator（全球领先的汽车经销商评论网站）的经理。在这次访谈中，我们讨论了 Dealerator 从初创公司到盈利企业的过程，如何激励汽车经销商的销售人员，Carvana 客户服务操作的秘密，如何在经销商处利用人工智能，当今汽车买家面临的主要问题，以及更多内容。但在我们开始节目之前，我想感谢 Cars Commerce 参加节目并成为这一集的赞助商。我在这个播客上经常提到我们的行业有多么复杂和脱节，有这么多不同的转动部件。因此，作为多年的Cars.com和Dealer Inspire的客户，我很高兴听到 Alex Vetter 公布他的团队希望建设Cars Commerce以简化汽车经销商的技术。这个平台通过创新的技术和媒体解决方案，比如Dealer Inspire，精确地从Cars.com市场地将最有价值的受众连接起来，并且新建了Cars Commerce媒体网络。这意味着你现在可以通过一个合作伙伴，向你知道正在市场上的消费者进行广告推广，引导他们从网上到店内获得无缝的消费者体验，并在你的市场快速建立一个区别于其他的声誉。这就是我们需要改善客户体验和未来证明当地零售商的方式。欢迎访问cars commerce . ink或点击下方的说明链接，了解如何简化您的业务并增加盈利性。

this episode is also brought to you by auto-fi most digital retail platforms are limited in their capabilities and fall short on empowering dealers to convert shoppers into buyers while protecting profitability. Auto-fi delivers done deals by empowering your dealership with the technology to land customers on the right vehicle and deal from payment configuration f&i product selection credit and real-time lender offers plus the backhand selling tools to help close the deal this accelerates the deal no matter where the customer is on the dealer's website over the phone or in the showroom and translates to a faster sale with better customer experience and higher profits in fact the most engaged dealers on auto-fi see $411 more back-end pVR versus non-autified deals go to auto-fi.com slash CDG to learn more or click the link in the show notes below that's auto-fi.com slash CDG and start working with done deals today.

这一集也由Auto-fi赞助提供。大部分的数字零售平台在功能上受限，无法让经销商转化顾客为购买者同时又保护利润。Auto-fi通过提供技术支持，使你的经销店能够为客户提供最合适的车型和交易，包括付款配置、金融保险产品选择、信用贷款和实时贷款报价，再配合后期销售工具来完成交易。无论顾客在经销商的网站上，还是通过电话或是在展厅，这都能加快交易速度，并带来更快的销售、更好的客户体验以及更高的利润。事实上，最活跃的Auto-fi经销商比非Auto-fi经销商的后期每车交易利润多411美元。欢迎点击下方的链接访问auto-fi.com/CDG学习更多，或点击下方的节目简介链接。就是auto-fi.com/CDG，从今天开始享受我们锁定的交易服务。

So my brother-in-law chip brooder came up with the idea of a back in 2002 and he and I started talking about it back in those early days. I don't necessarily consider myself a founder but sort of early advisor to him and to the business model as he grew up. I was at the time living in Santa Fe, New Mexico with my wife and I was selling publishing companies traveling all over the country selling primarily newspaper companies but loved cars and he was a big car guy and had a pretty polarizing experience at a car dealership.

所以我的姐夫，Chip Brooder，早在2002年就提出了这个想法，从那时起，我们就开始讨论这件事。我并不认为自己是创始人，但我确实在早期对他和他的商业模式提供了一些建议。当时我和我的妻子住在新墨西哥州的圣达菲，我在全国各地销售出版公司，主要是报社，但我热爱汽车，他也是一个大汽车迷，并且在汽车经销商那里有过非常激烈的经历。

Tell me what happened. Give me the juice. Yeah he was buying a new car. It was a BMW dealership, a local BMW dealership. This is first new car purchase. He was a used car guy up until this point. Super excited to go in there.

告诽我发生了什么。给我提供详细信息。是的，他正在买一辆新车。那是一家本地的宝马汽车经销店。这是他第一次购买新车。在这之前，他一直是买二手车的。他非常期待能去那里。

Pompity did the whole thing online and put together the car that he wanted. Waited for a while. It got delivered. Turns out that in the time between the order was placed and the order was delivered, the some of the options that he chose became part of the standard package.

波皮蒂在网上完成了所有的操作，选配好了他想要的汽车，然后等了一段时间。车子终于送到了。结果发现，在他下单和取车的期间，他选择的一些附加选项已经成为了标准配置的一部分。

So he was actually doing a refund but when he picked up the car they pocketed the difference. They didn't tell him that he was doing a refund. He essentially took the car, was none the wiser and went home and then did some research and figured out that wait a minute he just paid more for the car than he should have.

所以他其实是在做退款，但当他取车时，他们却把差价装进了自己的口袋。他们没有告诉他他正在进行退款。他实际上拿着车，一无所知地回家，然后做了些研究，并发现他为车辆支付的价格其实比应该的要高。

Told the dealership went back, had a good conversation. They were very apologetic. Salesperson learned a lesson and they went above and beyond to make it right. I think that was to him that was his experience sort of flew in the face of what he sort of considered to be the sort of typical customer experience at a dealership.

我告诉车行我回来了，我们有了一次愉快的交谈。他们表现得非常歉意。销售员从中学到了教训，他们竭尽全力去做出了正确的决定。我觉得，对他来说，这就是他的经历，这与他所认为的车行的典型客户体验相抵触。

He was sort of expecting something to happen and to be taken for something but at the end of the day they realized that they made a mistake and they did something wrong and they wanted to make it right. So they went above and beyond and he was so taken by that experience that he wanted to go share it online.

他原本期待会发生一些事情，被误解为其他意思，但在事情结束的时候，他们意识到犯了错误，并坦诚想要纠正。因此他们作出了超乎寻常的努力，这样的体验让他感动不已，他想要在网上分享这个经历。

At that point this was 2002 before Google had reviews before Yelp was a thing and so he's like, I got to share this somewhere. So he's a web developer and decided that he would just spin up a blog and he bought a whole bunch of domain names, dealer, raider, obviously was the one that he ended up settling on but bought a whole bunch of domain names and just spun up a quick blog, wrote that review that was essentially review number one and then encouraged folks on this onload of enthusiast forums to come and share their experiences at car dealerships and all of a sudden he had 10 reviews and then by the end of the month he had 30 reviews and so it was just sort of kind of a hobby thing and he and I sort of talked about it and how to think about you know over the years developing it into a business.

这是在2002年的时候，那时的Google还没有评论功能，Yelp也还没流行起来。他想，我必须在某个地方分享这个。于是，作为网络开发人员的他决定开设一个博客，他购买了一大堆域名，最后选择的是"dealer raider"。他只是简单地开设了一个博客，写下了他的第一篇评论，然后鼓励其他的热衷论坛的人们来分享他们在汽车经销商那里的经验。突然之间，他就有了10篇评论，到月底时，他有了30篇评论。所以这其实在一开始就是一种业余爱好。他和我聊了聊这件事，也谈论了如何在未来的几年中将它发展成一个业务。

It was really sort of started as kind of a public good right, you just wanted to make sure that there was a platform for transparency. It was not only to make sure that consumers had a place to go to share their experience but also that dealers could learn from the mistakes that happened. So that was sort of this kind of genesis story and I got involved part-time early on and we're always talking about it around you know holidays and this and that and we hired a couple great you know salespeople we put a business model together and I joined the company full-time in 2011. So it's been a lot of fun. So lots of questions.

这个创意起初真的是作为一个公益项的目的启动的，你只是希望确保有一个做到透明度的平台。这不仅是为了确保消费者有一个地方可以分享他们的经验，而且也是为了让经销商能从发生的错误中学习。所以这就是这个发展起源的故事，我在早期的时候兼职参与进来，我们经常在节假日和其他时间里讨论这个，我们雇佣了几个很好的销售人员，搭建了一个商业模式，我在2011年全职加入了这个公司。所以这个过程非常有趣。有很多问题需要去解决。

So first of all what was that early business model like how do you take this kind of hobby or you know public good and then how do you actually start generating revenue? Would you do that? Yeah so I mean for the first six or seven years it was just a static site that was collecting content. We you know went out and bought lists. We tried to list every franchise dealer on the site. There's a lot of manual labor putting all the dealer profiles on the site and we want to make sure that we had a fully representative transparent platform of all the franchise and as many use car dealers as we could across the country and so once we sort of set that foundation we realized that dealers as they were getting content on their pages wanted to leverage positive reviews as testimonials on their websites and they wanted to showcase their salespeople and they wanted to showcase their inventory. They wanted to do a little bit more content marketing than we gave them the opportunity to.

那么首先这个最早的商业模式是什么样的呢？你是如何将这种兴趣爱好或者说公共利益转化为真正开始产生收入的途径呢？你会这样做吗？是的，我的意思是在最初的六七年里，这只是一个视为收集内容的静态网站。我们扩大了规模，买来了一些清单。我们试图将每一个特许经销商列到网站上。在网站上罗列所有经销商的资料涉及大量的人工劳动，我们希望能确保我们拥有一个完全可代表的透明平台，可以横贯全国的所有的特许和尽可能多的二手车经销商。因此，一旦我们建立了这个基础，我们意识到经销商希望在获取页面内容后，利用好评作为他们网站上的推荐语，他们希望展示自己的销售人员，他们希望展示他们的库存。他们希望比我们给他们的机会做更多的内容营销。

So the business model was really built around how do we you know centrally empower local retailers to leverage our platform which at the time was starting to get a lot of you know SEO juice and you know the use of Google was starting to ramp and if you Google the dealerships name their page on dealerator appeared and so dealers recognized that and they realized that we were sort of part of that that consumer research journey and so we thought hey you know what what if we give dealers an opportunity to upload photos and share the amenities of their dealership and and unlock employee profile pages and share their inventory and so we came up with a very light sort of SaaS business model where we just said hey you if you want to forget what it was back then 95 bucks a month load up your inventory and we'll make your feeds.

所以，这个商业模式的真正构建是围绕着我们如何集中授权本地零售商利用我们的平台。那个时候，我们的平台开始获得了很多的搜索引擎优化(SEO)的影响力，同时Google的使用也开始增多，如果你在Google上搜索经销商的名字，他们在dealerator的页面就会出现。因此，经销商意识到了这一点，他们了解到我们是消费者研究旅途的一部分，所以我们想，如果我们给经销商一个机会上传照片，分享他们的经销商的设施，解锁员工档案页面，分享他们的库存，那会怎么样呢？所以我们提出了一个非常轻量的软件即服务(SaaS)的商业模式，我们就说，如果你愿意，不记得那时候是多少钱，大概95美元一个月，你可以上传你的库存，我们会为你制作数据流。

We don't know these prices across any platform across any industry nowadays. Yeah it was right I mean so it was just sort of like at that point you know something that this would help us kind of keep you know keep the lights on but we realized quickly that this was something that not only wasn't. important to consumers as our site traffic ramped and consumers were using our site to actively make purchase decisions but dealers were using this information to get better and so for us you know with the the the site was born out of essentially frustration that you know for this sort of this misalignment or the sort of the idea that the industry is sort of misunderstood and wanting to bring that transparency to consumers and make sure that the dealers who really do a good job of providing great customer experience have an opportunity to prove that without them just saying it in their marketing like we're the so like highlighting the good players and you know for lack of a better firm ignoring the bad actors or just not giving them the spotlight.

我们现在在任何平台、任何行业都不知道这些价格。是的，我的意思是，那时我们只是想有点儿东西可以帮助我们维持运营，但我们很快就发现，这不仅对消费者重要，因为我们的网站流量增加，消费者开始积极使用我们的网站来做购买决策，而且经销商也在利用这些信息来改善他们的业务。所以对我们来说，该网站的出现根本上是出于对行业误解或错位的挫败感，我们希望能为消费者提供透明的信息，确保那些真正做好客户体验的经销商有机会证明自己，而不只是通过营销来宣称自己的优势。我们希望突出这些优秀的参与者，并尽可能忽视或不让那些行为不端的经销商占据舆论焦点。

Yeah I mean we making sure we had content on the bad actors was very important and it continues to do so what do you mean by that like what do you do you know we we want the good and the bad we don't just want to be you know we we don't just want to showcase great dealers and ignore those who aren't providing a great customer experience so for us having that balance of content is really important there are there are you know dealerships that aren't treating customers the way that customers expect to be treated and we and we want to make sure that those voices are heard on our website in a very transparent fair way and so you know I think that's the you know dealerships don't get better without productive feedback if you're just doing a great job look no business is perfect if you're doing a great job and you've got five stars across the board a thousand reviews no instead of bad thing about you consumers these days are like okay something something something's weird with that so you know you can't please everyone all the time you're gonna have people who just aren't happy no matter what you do and those negative experiences show up on our platform and that is what it is when dealers embrace it and that the good dealers that separate themselves in the market are the ones that actually take that feedback and use it to improve their processes instead of getting defensive and say now it's not us it's you and that we see a lot that we I mean over the past 20 years that's obviously it continues to be a common theme.

是的，我是说，我们确保对不良商家的评价上有充足的内容非常重要，并且这一点在未来仍然会继续。你问这是什么意思，那么你要知道，我们既看好的又看不好的，我们不只想突显优秀的经销商，忽略那些无法提供优秀客户服务的人。所以，对我们来说，内容的平衡非常重要。有些经销商并未以客户期待的方式待人，我们希望确保这些声音在我们的网站上以公正透明的方式得以发表。毕竟，没有有建设性反馈的车商无法做得更好。如果你做得很好，你的所有评价都是五星，一千多条评价都没有坏的，消费者反倒会觉得怪怪的。因为没有哪个商家是完美的，你不能一直让所有人满意，总有些人无论你怎样都不会满意。这些负面的体验会展示在我们的平台上，这就是一种现象。当车商接受这一点，而且好的经销商在市场中脱颖而出的生存法则就是真正运用这些反馈去改善他们的流程，而不是辩解说这不是我们的问题，而是你的问题。在过去的20年里，我们看到这种情况特别多，而且显然这将继续成为一个常见的主题。

Some of your your brother-in-law launches this like blog you know web developer guy right like how do you fit into the puzzle like what do you come in and like you know where is that what are you focused on so I focused really more on sort of the operational aspects of the business once we kind of came up with the business model which which he and I talked about my wife helped with some of the early marketing and and so you know he just wanted to put his headphones on and code he was all about building the site figuring out how to sort of improve and add new features etc and when you got the point where I mean look we started making money for the first few years it was essentially making money on Google AdWords right like we were a beta site for Google AdSense and you know I we got a check for a thousand bucks a month and we were pumped right or like you know 2,500 bucks a month was probably our biggest month you know that doesn't support being able to hire another developer or hire JBL.

你的姐夫，那个网络开发者，他开始了这个博客，你是怎么参与其中的？你负责什么职责？我主要负责的是公司的运营方面。我们一旦确定了商业模式，他和我就会讨论，我的妻子会帮忙初期的市场营销。他只想戴上头戴式耳机全心全意投入开发，他全身心投入于建设网站，找出如何改进和添加新功能等等。当我们开始赚钱时，在最初的几年我们主要靠Google AdWords赚钱，我们是Google AdSense的测试网站，我记得我们每个月能从Google得到一千美元的收入，我们感到非常兴奋。我们可能一个月最多赚到2500美元，这笔钱没法支撑我们雇佣另一个开发者或者雇佣JBL。

So the business really took off when we brought on a couple salespeople who were you know well connected in the automotive industry who really got the model who understood what we were trying to build and just went out and spread the word across the country and showed dealers the impact of developing a good reputation and how you know if you do well by your customers and you ask them to share that content you can actually you know you can you can create preference in your market over your competitors so it's something that you needed to pay attention to and all the while you know now TripAdvisor was becoming a thing and Yelp was becoming a thing and so you know we were sort of the first we were the automotive industry's first review site we're probably one of the earliest sort of official review sites across any industry and TripAdvisor beat us by maybe a year or two but I think I tweeted one time at Jeremy Stoppelman tell him dude like your site pisses me off so right if you're listening that doesn't know who that is that's the founder of Yelp yeah yeah exactly yeah and we can get into Yelp later because that's a different thing yeah I know and by the way and you mentioned your brother-in-law once you put his headphone in code I tell him I feel the exact same way I just want to put my headphones in great content so similar personalities there talk to me more about the actual product.

所以，当我们引入了一些在汽车行业有很好人脉，真正理解我们的商业模式，明白我们想要建立什么的销售人员时，业务真正起飞了。他们四处传播我们的理念，向全国的经销商展示了建立良好声誉的影响，以及如果你真诚待客，让他们分享自己的购车体验，你实际上可以在市场上创建出优于竞争对手的偏好。这是你需要关注的事情。与此同时，《旅行者指南》（TripAdvisor）和《大众点评》（Yelp）正在崭露头角。我们可以说是汽车行业的第一个评论网站，也可能是早期最官方的评论网站之一。旅行者指南可能比我们早一两年，但是我记得我曾经在推特上对Jeremy Stoppelman说：“伙计，你的网站真让我烦。”不知道的听众可能不知道他是谁，他是《大众点评》的创始人，我们后面可以详细谈谈那个，因为那是另外一回事。顺便说一下，你提到过你的妹夫，一戴上耳机就开始写代码，我完全能理解那种感觉，我也喜欢带上耳机淹没在优质的内容里。我们性格相似。关于实际产品，可以再多谈谈吗？

Right, like I'm familiar with the dealerator. I think there's, you know, I think many dealers are familiar with that and many consumers. But for anyone that doesn't know, can you just explain it? What do you actually do?

好的，就像我对这个代理商系统很熟悉。我觉得，你知道，我认为有很多代理商和消费者都对这个很熟悉。但是对于那些不了解的人，你能解释一下吗？你们到底在做什么？

Right, and by the way, let me rephrase that. What do you actually do today? Because I think it's very clear what you did when you started, but the product has evolved a ton and the company, so go ahead.

好的，顺便让我重新表述一下。你现在实际上是做什么的呢？因为我觉得你开始时做的事情非常清楚，但产品已经发生了很大改变，公司也是，你可以继续说了。

Yeah, so today we are the sort of the reputation foundation for car commerce. So all of the user-generated content that we've collected on dealerator, all the salesperson profiles, are now on the cars.com marketplace platform. So we are not just a user-generated content collection engine, but we're also threading in sort of insights that we then feed back to the dealers around various aspects of the processes. What are they doing well? What are they not doing well? How do we help dealers improve their processes? And then, you know, just as importantly, how do we help them elevate their salespeople and help their salespeople build their brands and engage their staff in the review collection process?

是的，所以今天我们可以说是汽车商业的声誉基础。我们在dealerator上收集的所有用户生成的内容，所有的销售人员资料，现在都在cars.com的市场平台上。所以我们不仅仅是一个用户生成内容的收集引擎，我们还在其中融入了一些我们然后反馈给各汽车经销商的见解，涵盖了各个方面的流程。他们做得好的是什么？他们做得不好的是什么？我们如何帮助经销商完善他们的流程？然后，同样重要的是，我们如何帮助他们提升销售人员，帮助销售人员建立他们的品牌，并让他们的员工参与到评论收集过程中？

Because once you get that wheel spinning where someone's come in and selected your dealership because of reviews and now they're working with someone that they chose on cars.com because they wanted to work with that particular person, they're going to have a good experience, they're going to write a review, and that whole sort of virtuous cycle repeats. So today we're focused on how do we elevate the consumer experience on cars.com but also make sure that we empower the local retailers to get better and improve their processes and show them where they may have fallen short. And then it's up to the dealer to decide whether or not they want to take action or not. But um so for us it's important to make sure that we are building and innovating on new ways to collect content for dealers. So to make it easy for them to just um collect content, to respond to reviews, which is incredibly important, to showcase their salespeople, and to create higher quality connections through giving consumers the ability to select the person they want to work with when they submit a lead on cars.com.

因为一旦你的车轮开始转动，有人会因为评价选择你的经销商，现在他们正在与他们在cars.com上选择的人合作，因为他们想要与那个特定的人合作。他们将会有一个良好的体验，他们会写评价，然后这整个良性循环就会重复。所以今天我们关注的是如何提升cars.com上的消费者体验，同时也要确保我们能赋权给本地零售商，让他们变得更好，改进他们的流程，并告诉他们可能的不足之处。然后，由经销商决定是否要采取行动。因此，对我们来说，确保我们正在开发和创新新的方式收集经销商的内容非常重要。所以为了让他们方便地收集内容、回应评论（这非常重要）、展示他们的销售人员，并通过赋予消费者选择他们在cars.com上提交线索时希望合作的人的能力，来创建更高质量的联系。

Yeah, I love responding to reviews and, you know, I just like to use it as like, uh, I think if you respond to any business, this is not, you know, this is not specific to cars, but if you respond to reviews, I just think it's a great marketing opportunity, especially if you get like a not so good review because it just immediately shows, you know, immediately shows kind of your brand, your values, your personality. And so, you know, it's funny, we used to actually, uh, we used to like sort of like it when someone didn't leave us a five-star review, but that wasn't, like, that bad, that was like a four-star, three-star, because you already know that that, like, that's gonna get, you know, all the views, everyone's gonna go there and everyone's gonna want to see, like, what happened and how is the situation and how to rectify.

是的，我非常喜欢回应评论，我喜欢把它当作一种，我认为如果你回应任何商业的评论，这并不，你知道，这并不只是针对汽车，但如果你回应评论的话，我只是觉得这会是一个很好的市场机会，尤其是如果你收到了并不是特别好的评论，因为它可以立即展现你的品牌，你的价值观，你的个性。所以，你知道，有趣的是，我们之前其实，我们曾经有点喜欢别人给我们的评价并不是五星，那并不那么糟糕，像四星，三星的，因为你已经知道，那肯定会引来很多关注，所有人都会关注那里，每个人都想看到发生了什么，情况怎么样以及如何纠正。

So I don't think this is like a novel insight or anything, but I think it's like, you mentioned it earlier, like when someone has, like, all five-star reviews, like, that's sketch. It's sketch. I mean, look, and, you know, what we found in our data is 97 percent of consumers read review responses. So, like, not only are, like, reviews important, and these days, it's just sort of table stakes that you have reviews, your fresh volume, and you've got a good reputation, but people want to see how you respond. They want to see that communication between you and the customer, even if it's just a positive review, is that, hey, I had a great experience with Sally Smith and, you know, I'll be back, right? To take a moment to say, hey, you know, thank you for sharing that experience, we hope to see you back soon. It's great, you know, working with you. That speaks a lot not only to the person that wrote it because you're now acknowledging that they took the time to do it, but you're also showing people that you want to create that human connection and customer loyalty is important to you. And it's just as important, if not more important, to be responding to negative reviews too because, I mean, you know, to your point, you don't want to read all the good stuff. They want to see how you handled a really crappy situation, and it happens to everyone.

我并不认为这是什么一揽子解决方案或诸如此类的东西，但我认为你之前提到过，比如当看到某人所有的评价都是五星好评，这就感觉有点怪了。我是说，就是有点怪。通过我们的数据，我们发现97%的消费者会阅读商家对评价的回复。因此，评价不仅重要，而且现在，拥有评价，更新的评价和良好的声誉是一种基本的要求，而且人们还想看到你是如何回应的。他们想看到你和客户之间的交流，即使只是一篇积极的评价，比如，哇，我和Sally Smith的经历真棒，我肯定还会找她。即使只是说一句：“嗨，谢谢你分享这个经验，我们希望早日再见到你。很高兴和你一起工作。”都说明了很多，不仅对那个写下这段话的人进行了回应，因为你现在承认他们花时间去做这件事，而且你还向人们表明，你想建立真诚的人际关系，客户忠诚度对你很重要。对于负面评价的回应也同样重要，甚至比对于积极评价的回应更重要，因为，我是说，你的意思是，人们不只是想读到好的东西。他们想看到你如何处理一次很糟糕的情况，这种事情每个人都会遇到。

Yeah, I think that's, uh, that's how I view it as well. I like even like just relationships in general, like I always, think just a part of earning trust is, you know, going through challenges and seeing, you know, how each side sort of solves the challenge. And so, to your point, like, that's, that goes also way beyond reviews. It's just like when you earn trust in a relationship to see how someone's going to actually handle a challenge, what are they going to do, how are they going to react, you know, it's a really important part of earning trust.

是的，我也是这么看待这个问题的。我甚至觉得在各种人际关系中，我总是觉得建立信任的一部分就是经历挑战，并看看双方如何解决这些挑战。所以，正如你所说，这远远超越了评价的范畴。这就像当你在一段关系中赢得别人的信任，看到别人如何处理挑战、他们会做什么、他们会如何反应，这是建立信任的一个非常重要的部分。

I want to ask you, like, um, a question from your insight, do you find that... do you find that most people or like what inside do you have to just help defeat the decision-making of consumers like do you find that reviews is enough to get to convince a consumer to like go shop at x y or z store or dealership or is it typically like combined with like some i don't know other forms of advertising or maybe like a warm referral from a friend like how do you think about that our reviews you know good reviews or you know or however we define good here but is that enough to really sort of convince consumer to do business with you yeah i mean i i've seen a recent study that showed that you know consumer reviews are just as important uh than just as important as uh referrals from friends and family so i think you know increasingly these days and we just seen this ramp over the past 15 20 years people are increasingly relying on customer feedback to make purchasing decisions it's all over search it's all over websites i think you know what's important is that consumers trust the source um which is why providing that transparent platform for us and ultimately cause cars commerce has been a really critical component of our growth is making sure that um we show the good and and the bad um but i think you know in the consumer journey people want to be comfortable especially when the birds in a car that they're making the right decision and i think you know relying on um the feedback of others who have been in your shoes and have had that experience um is one of the most important factors in the journey which is why you know cars is committed to ensuring that um part of that sort of consumer experience that dealership feedback is integrated into the shopping experience on the car's commerce platform because that it it actively um not only does it sort of actively create um you know decision points that will go one way or the other in fact you know the majority of consumers won't do business with a dealership that's got negative reviews that haven't been responded to um so i think just making sure that there's you know um that that content is as visible as possible along the way um not only in the dealership dealership selection but also in the salesperson selection which is um something that we take a lot of pride in that's that's sort of you know unique to our platform

我想请你分享一些内行见解。你觉得大多数人是怎样做消费决策的？你认为仅靠用户评价就可以说服消费者去某个店铺或汽车经销店购物吗？还是通常需要配合一些广告或朋友的热情推荐？你认为，好评或者我们所定义的“好”，是否足以真正说服消费者与你们做生意？ 我最近看到一个研究，表明消费者对用户评价的重视程度与朋友和家人的推荐相当。我认为，如今，人们日益依赖用户反馈来做购买决策，这个趋势在过去的15到20年里日益明显。这种反馈在搜索结果和网站上随处可见。我认为重要的是消费者要信任评价来源，这就是为何我们提供透明的平台并且对我们的商业增长尤其关键的部分，我们要确保展示好评与差评。 我觉得在消费者的购物旅程中，人们想要有安心感，特别是当涉及到购买车辆时，他们要确信自己的决定是对的。我认为依赖那些在你之前已经有了该消费经验的人们的反馈，是购物旅程中最重要的因素之一。这就是为什么我们坚持在购物体验中融入对汽车经销商的反馈，因为这会积极地影响消费者的决策。实际上，大多数消费者不会选择那些有未回应差评的店家。所以我认为最重要的是，我们要尽可能地让这些评价内容可见，不仅在选择汽车经销商时，还包括在选择销售人员时，这是我们非常引以为豪的一点，也是我们平台的独特之处。

I want to ask a quick question with that though. So I had the car model on my podcast earlier this year. If you don't know, she's a really big automotive influencer on Instagram. Special answers, yeah yeah. And so her family, you know, owns dealerships.

我想就这个问题快速提问一下。今年早些时候，我在我的播客节目中介绍了那款汽车模型。如果你不知道，她在Instagram上是一个相当大的汽车行业影响者。提供特别的答案，是的是的。并且，她的家族，你知道，拥有很多汽车经销商店。

So I actually asked her, I was like, hey, so like what's your recommendation here from your experience when it comes to the customer experience and the dealership experience and when it comes to buying a car? And to really get the best experience, she said selecting a salesperson on Dealertor prior to going to a dealership, as opposed she didn't mention selecting a dealership, just selecting a salesperson.

所以我其实问过她，我就说，嘿，你有什么经验建议关于客户体验和汽车销售商体验以及购买汽车的事情？并且真正得到最佳体验，她说在去车行之前先在Dealerator上选择一个销售员，相对来说她没有提到选择车行，只是选择销售员。

So I actually thought that was, you know, pretty pretty novel. I haven't heard that prior to that conversation.

所以我真的觉得，你知道，这非常新颖。在那次谈话之前，我从未听说过这个观点。

So do you agree with that? Do you think that that's like the smartest way for consumers to shop? And also do you think like dealers should be sort of pushing their teams to be more active on like almost like build their personal brands? Or do you think, you know, the value at the end of the um, accrues to the top to the actual dealership itself? And that's where, you know, the consumer should be focused on? How do you think about that?

那么你同意这种看法吗？你认为这是消费者购物最明智的方式吗？同时，你认为经销商是否应该推动他们的团队更积极地建立个人品牌？或者你认为，最后的价值应该归功于实际的经销商本身？这是消费者应该关注的地方吗？你怎么看这个问题呢？

Yeah yeah, good good question. I love the car mom, I think she's done an incredible job building her brand, the same way you've done building your brand. Um, and so yeah, I did watch that, uh, that interview. I was thrilled to hear that that was her number one car buying tip was um, making sure that you select the person that you want to work with before you walk into the dealership.

好的，好的，这个问题提得好。我喜欢妈妈的那辆车，我觉得她在建立自己的品牌方面做得相当出色，就像你建立自己的品牌一样。嗯，所以是的，我确实看了那次访谈。我很高兴听到她的首选购车技巧就是，在走进汽车经销店之前，确保你选择了你想要合作的人。

I think, you know, consumers want to have as much choice as they can in the process, and we all know that this is, you know, as the industry evolves, the handoff from online to offline is really important. Um, and I think this is a really important way to sort of bridge that gap is to break down the barriers of mistrust. Another when you're walking into a dealership you're not just going to get the next. up that might not be the right person it might be someone new it might be someone that you don't necessarily connect with um to feel like you have some control over that part of the process i think it's really important and i think um that we found time and time again that that is important to consumers in fact we asked consumers um who have written recent reviews of sales experiences um would they have preferred to select their sales person before they walked in the dealership and 97 percent of them said yes so it's overwhelming data that says yeah like yes this is this is an aspect of the experience that i might be a little bit um unsure of we're cautious of and if we give them that transparency the ability to read bios and say hey has someone you know that i i know from my son's little league team or went to the same high school as i did like you immediately create that bond with someone so when you walk into the dealership you know who to ask for and you feel much more empowered in that process and i think that to me is what's what's the most important thing is um about being able to um give salespeople and service providers the ability to um have their own page on our site some of them think of it think of it as their website you google their name and the dealership's name and that you know that shows up above their linkedin profile if they even have them and people don't index pretty well trust me i've noticed

我认为，你知道的，消费者希望在购物过程中有尽可能多的选择权，我们都明白，随着行业的发展，从线上到线下的衔接非常重要。我认为，打破这种不信任的障碍，就能弥合这种差距。当你走进一家汽车经销店，你不只是去找下一个可能并不适合你，可能是新来的，或者是你并不能产生共鸣的销售员。我觉得掌握这部分过程的一些主导权非常重要。我们一次又一次地发现，这对消费者来说是非常重要的。实际上，我们询问了一些近期书写销售体验评价的消费者，他们是否更希望在走进经销店前就能选择他们的销售员，97%的人回答是肯定的。这个数据非常确凿，显示出，是的，这是我可能会对其有些犹豫或警觉的体验环节。如果我们给他们提供足够的透明度，让他们可以阅读个人简介，并说出“嘿，他是我儿子小联赛队的队友，或者和我上的是同一所高中”，你马上就能和他建立起一个联系。因此，当你走进汽车经销店时，你知道要找谁，你在这个过程中感觉自己更被赋权。我认为，这对我来说是最重要的。让销售人员和服务提供商在我们的网站上有他们自己的页面，他们有些人把这看作是自己的网站，你在谷歌上搜索他们的名字和经销店的名字，那个页面就会出现在他们的LinkedIn个人资料之上（如果他们有的话）。相信我，我已经注意到了，人们会更多的点击他们的页面。

i got to tell you also like my marketing brain you know everything in my brain is like thinking about marketing so i think it's uh i think it's genius that like the model works so well kind of from the bottoms up because it's like it's like a trojan horse to get into like every dealership like the salesperson uses the dealerator and then next thing you know and other salespeople are using it and then next thing you know the executive team or you know management is like wait what is this great we need to you know we need to sign up a dealerator and you know do more um because now our entire team is using it sort of like the slack model that's at least how my brain thinks of it like you know our you know any other like you know bottoms up sass whatever you want to call it but you know these models that kind of you can get into the to the business through the bottom and kind of work your way up to management it's it's pretty genius i like that we want to have our software in the pockets of every dealership employee to make their daily routines easier better bring data to them

我也得告诉你，我的脑子里全都是关于市场营销的想法，我认为，从底层入手的这个模式运作得相当不错，我认为这很聪明，就像用特洛伊木马来进入每个经销店。首先，销售人员会使用dealerator，然后你会发现其他销售人员也在使用它，接下来，执行团队或管理层开始发现，《哇，这个东西太棒了，我们需要注册一个dealerator，需要做更多的事情，因为现在整个团队都在使用它》。这就像Slack的模式，至少在我看来是这样，你知道，还有其他一些自下而上的SaaS模式，或者你想叫它什么都行，但你知道这种模式，你可以从底层进入企业，然后慢慢蔓延到管理层，这真的很棒，我很喜欢这个。我们希望有我们的软件在每个汽车经销商的员工的口袋中，使他们的日常工作变得更轻松，更好，为他们提供数据。

i way you know one of the things on our platform is when someone shares their experience at the dealership they can also rate the individual employee that they had the experience with so if you've got a wrap on your phone as an employee you can see when you get rated um when you know you get stars from a consumer and and it's it's engaging and it helps you have um get better if it's a one star or two star or a three star you can use that to your advantage but um so what i think an important important question to ask is like how do you make money and then secondly do dealers pay to curate positive reviews right like how what's the business model here today

我要告诉你们的是，在我们的平台上，当某人分享他们在经销店的经历时，他们也可以评价他们接触到的每一位员工。因此，如果你是一位员工，你在自己的手机应用上就能看到自己得到的评价，你能看到消费者给你的评星。这种方式非常吸引人，它可以帮助你做得更好。比如，如果你得到了一星、两星或者三星，你可以把它转化为你的优势。但是，我认为一个重要的问题是，你们如何赚钱？经销商是否需要付费来筛选积极的评论？你们的商业模式是什么？

yeah so so dealers can't pay us a dime to curate positive reviews on our site right i'm obviously it's the it's the the good and the bad we're sort of consumer driven in that way um there you know community guidelines that need to be followed um and we obviously are are um we're very um uh focused on content moderation and fraud detection detection and prevention and all that stuff um but so our you know our business model is kind of rolled into the car's platform now so the dealerator product um is essentially it's going to roll into the feature of the premium marketplace product now so we feel that reputation is foundational to the marketplace experience um and so dealers that um have their inventory on cars.com um should also be empowered to you know read and examine and digest and leverage customer feedback to get better and so um one of the tools that we unlock as part of the premium package is the ability to automate the review collection process um plugs right into the dms and you can um you don't have to worry about salespeople asking to get reviews it just goes out to all um all sales and RO customers the past day and um a lot of content gets generated that way um largely positive because dealers on balance are doing a very good job um so we make money essentially through you know the the um the suite of reputation management features that we offer now through the car's platform but we're also integrated into dealer inspired websites and those digital solutions and accutrate and so we're we're the foundational to the the larger cars commerce platform um yeah rather than focusing on selling dealerator as a standalone product which the team isn't doing anymore.

是的，经销商们不能付我们一分钱就在我们的网站上策划正面评价，这一点我很明白。我们显示的是好评和差评，我们这方面更倾向于以消费者为中心。有一些社区规定需要遵守，并且我们很明显地在内容审核、欺诈检测、欺诈预防等方面做得很用心。我们的商业模式现在已经融入到汽车平台中，经销商产品基本上将成为高级市场产品的特色。我们认为，声誉是市场体验的基础。因此，将库存放在cars.com上的经销商也应被赋权去阅读、检查、理解和利用消费者反馈以提高他们的服务。我们作为高级套餐的一部分开放的一种工具能够自动化地收集评论，直接插入到设备管理系统中，你无须担心销售员询问获取评论，它会发给所有的销售和RO客户，这样会产生大量的内容，这些内容大部分都是积极的，因为经销商做得非常好。我们主要是通过现在在汽车平台提供的声誉管理功能套件来盈利，我们也将这一点融入到了dealer inspired的网站和数字解决方案，以及accutrate上。我们是汽车商业平台的基础，我们已经不再专注于作为独立产品出售Dealerator，车队已经不再这么做了。

So, how are you handling? Like, I have to imagine you've caught, like, you know, some people gaming the system. You know, doing some things that are, you know, not kosher. Like, how are you handling that, right? Like, I guess two questions, two partner. Like, how, number one, how are you detecting that? Number two, like, what have you detected and how have you done handled that?

那么，你是如何处理的呢？我想你一定遇到过一些人试图操控系统，做一些不合规的事情。你是如何处理这种情况的？我有两个问题想问你。第一，你是如何发现这些问题的？第二，你发现了什么问题，又是如何处理的？

Well, back in the early days, we were just trying to look for signs of things that looked weird, right? In fact, one funny story from back in the in the very early days is the weird we noticed that a couple dealerships started that there were some reviews that have been posted in all caps, and they seem they've looked a little weird. So, um, I was we're like, what is this? What, why are all these reviews written in all caps? And I was at a dealership um a couple weeks later and I noticed that the rep that I was working with was in his rental CRM and he had the caps lock and everything was all caps. Now it's like, wait a minute, these guys are going from typing review like you know putting information into the CRM right into writing a fraudulent review on our platform and they're not turning the caps lock off.

嗯，早期，我们只是试图寻找看起来奇怪的迹象，对吧？其实，一件有趣的事来自于最早的阶段，我们发现有两家经销商开始发布全大写字母的评论，而且这些评论看起来很奇怪。于是，我们就在想，这是什么情况？为什么所有的评论都是全大写的字母？几周后，我在一家经销商处，我注意到我正在和他合作的代理人正在使用他的租赁客户关系管理系统，他的大写锁定键一直开启，所有的字都是大写的。我一下子理解了，这些人从在客户关系管理系统中输入信息，到在我们的平台上写虚假的评论，他们都没有关闭大写锁定键。

So that was one of our sort of very early kind of primitive fraud detection features but since then we um we we've added a lot of um technological advances in terms of um good so we we pull the unique device ID we look at that we do a reverse ID look up to see where the review has been written from um and uh and we have being profanity filters and all that kind of stuff with some secret sauce in there and and we also read the reads so so we have human moderators too we're starting to leverage AI that's trained on fraudulent reviews and community guidelines violations so um we've spent a lot of time and money and effort in making sure that uh we we create and curate that transparent market so important.

所以，那是我们早期最初级的反欺诈功能之一，但从那以后，我们添加了许多技术进步。我们会获取独特的设备ID，查看它，我们会做一个反向ID查找，看看这条评论是从哪里写的。同时，我们设置了粗话过滤器等一系列功能，里面还融入了一些我们的秘制手法。我们也查阅读过的内容，我们有人工审核员。我们开始利用训练有素的AI来检测欺诈性评论和社区指南违规行为。所以，我们在确保我们创造和维护这个透明市场上投入了大量的时间、金钱和努力，这非常重要。

Yeah, I I had a recently a guy named Frank McKenna shout out Frank McKenna, he's a partner of the podcast and he uh he's with a company called Point Predictive but they're dealing with like dealership fraud and stuff like that and we actually didn't discuss like this level of like uh like customer experience or review so it's actually and you mentioned a good point like it makes me wonder like if this is another area or you know somehow an opportunity um for a company like that but it's definitely I mean it doesn't surprise me because it's you know it's it's every business I mean you know it's it's there's always going to be you know um I actually think that if you from my experience if you if you implement into your process just in general kind of debt customer feedback it's pretty easy like I don't really believe in I'm personally not a believer in incentivizing the team to collect or collect reviews I think that you know and you could tell me like you think differently but I feel like it should be part of just the process it's like it's like it's like you're building your brand like you want to earn more business then you obviously want to you know build up your reputation kind of what's your take on that?

是的，我最近接触了一位叫弗兰克·麦肯纳的人，向弗兰克·麦肯纳打个招呼，他是播客的合作伙伴，他与一家名为Point Predictive的公司有所合作，他们主要是处理诸如汽车经销商欺诈之类的问题。实际上，我们并没有讨论到像客户体验或评论这样的话题，所以你提出的一个好观点让我思考，这是否也是另一个领域或者是像他们这样的公司的某种机会，这确实让我感到震惊，因为这毕竟是每一个商业领域都可能存在的问题。以我的经验，如果你在你的过程中引入客户反馈，这其实是相当简单的。我个人并不信任那些通过奖励团队来收集用户反馈的方式，因为我觉得这应该是整个过程的一部分，就像你在建立你的品牌一样，如果你想赢得更多的业务，那么你显然希望建立起你的声誉。你对此有什么想法呢？

Yeah, we we know we I completely agree, we actively advise dealers not to incentivize uh their employees to go out and solicit uh reviews. I mean you know I know a lot of dealerships do it, we can't necessarily stop it but it's a very slippery slope because it does create bad behavior um and ultimately dealers sometimes get penalized because they're it comes back to bite them the sense that we find fraudulent reviews salespeople are writing 10 reviews from their iPad at you know midnight um on the night before sort of the you know month ends right we sort of see the spike in month end reviews and and then a lot of it is fraudulent reviews generated by um employees that are trying to get in the bunch that you know they haven't been able to get from actual consumers so yeah it's a it's a problem and it's something that we've always been sort of preaching against um and uh yeah I think that the dealers that do it the right way are those that don't put pressure on the salespeople or service advisors to get reviews but just automate the process um yes you can ask for it say hey you know you're gonna get a request do me a favor if you had a good experience share some some feedback great um but in incentivizing this this stuff it's a slippery slope.

是的，我们完全同意，我们积极建议经销商不要对员工进行激励，让他们去索取评论。我知道许多经销商都在做这个，我们不一定能阻止它，但这是一个非常危险的倾向。因为它会导致不良行为，最终经销商有时会因此受罚。譬如，我们发现了一些不实的评论，有些销售人员在月底的前一晚子夜时分，通过他们的iPad写下了十条评论，我们看到了月底评论的激增，然后其中许多都是假评论，是员工为了获取他们在真实用户那里无法得到的评论而生成的。所以，这是一个问题，这是我们一直在反对的事情。我认为那些正确处理这个问题的经销商就是不对销售员或服务顾问施加获取评论的压力，而是自动化地处理这个过程。当然你可以请求评论，例如说"你会收到一个请求，请帮我一个忙，如果你有什么好的体验，分享一些反馈"，但是激励这种行为，这是个滑坡。

What do you think generally about consumer or like being able to leave an anonymous review like what's your take on that in your position like because I think the other side here is when people are just trying to retaliate for some reason maybe they didn't get what they wanted regardless of the merit behind that like and then they leave you anonymous review could even be like a you know vindictive past employee or something who knows but like how do you handle that what's your take on that?

你如何看待消费者或者说在匿名的情况下留下评论呢？从你的角度来说，你对此有何看法？因为我认为这里的另一面是，有些人可能只是在试图报复，也许他们没有得到他们想要的，不论那背后的理由如何。然后他们留下匿名评论，甚至可能是一个心怀不满的前雇员或者是其他人，谁知道呢？但你会如何处理这种情况，你对此有什么看法？

We've always taken the position that we're not going to force consumers to reveal themselves uh in in in terms of who they are. I think. sometimes consumers need to feel like they're protected and that they have the opportunity to share feedback without fear of retribution

我们一直坚持的立场是，我们不会强迫消费者公开他们的身份。我认为，有时候，消费者需要有种保护感，知道他们有机会在无需担心报复的情况下提出反馈。

I think the reality though is that if you're sharing a legitimate review and it's a negative review and it's feedback the good dealers know exactly who that person is and sometimes dealers will just call that person and say hey I saw that you wrote a review on dealerator and they'll say what what do you mean that but then but they've described exactly what the problem was because each problem is unique and so many times dealers know exactly who this person is in situations where you know there's uh an exhales person who's upset or or you know we get fraudulent content that way you know we're typically able to to detect that because um you know we can we can also see where the review was was written from so we can see if the review was written in a competing dealership or we can see if there are five reviews written from the same device and and and we will on occasion um depending on the sort of severity of of the of the content um will reach out to the customer and we'll do it we'll actually look at the email address and see if this was a burner email to address that we've just created for this so we we will take extra steps um as opposed to google right like we'll like we actually have people who are employed to um make sure that we uh are being fair and only have the the the most you know trust and transparent content on the site because there's we've just when I think I've seen everything another day comes along and there's something new so there's there's always something um uh that dealers are trying to get you mentioned Yelp earlier so um I'm curious here your thoughts there what's what's your take on Yelp yeah you know it's funny I don't give Yelp a lot of thought to be honest um they're they're a little bit bigger on the west coast but for me you know Yelp Yelp isn't a platform that's built necessarily for automotive it's a platform that's built for a very sort of frequency of transactional model like restaurants or salons or hotels um you know carbine and car servicing is very episodic and I think Yelp tends to favor um the reviewers that are essentially yelpers that come and share feedback on everything right and I think Yelp has been very um transparent that their algorithm you know will favor reviews that are written by um yelpers that are known to them that are very active on that platform

我认为事实是，如果你分享的是一个真实的评价，虽然是负面的，但是这也是一种反馈。好的经销商很清楚这个人是谁，有时候经销商会直接打电话给他们，说我看到你在Dealerator上写了一篇评价。然后他们会详细描述问题的具体情况，因为每个问题都是独特的。所以大多数情况下，经销商可以确切知道这个人是谁。在那些销售人员不满意，或者我们收到虚假内容的情况下，我们通常能够检测到，因为我们可以看到评论是从哪里写的。我们可以看到评论是在一个竞争对手的经销商处写的，或者可以看到有五篇评论是从同一台设备上写的。根据内容的严重性，我们偶尔会主动联系客户，查看他们的邮箱地址，看看这是不是为此特意创建的一次性邮箱。我们会比Google更进一步，我们实际上有专门的员工来确保我们网站上的内容公正、可信、透明。因为当我以为我已经看到了所有的东西时，新的一天又带来了新的情况。所以总有一些经销商试图做出一些动作。你之前提到了Yelp，我对你对Yelp的看法很好奇。 说实话，我对Yelp并没有太多的思考。他们在西海岸比较大，但是对我来说，Yelp并不是一个专为汽车行业打造的平台，而是一个面向各种交易频繁的业务模式打造的平台，比如餐厅、美容院或酒店。买车和汽车服务是非常零散的，我认为Yelp更倾向于那些愿意分享各种反馈的评论员。我也认为Yelp对于他们的算法已经非常透明了，他们会偏好那些对他们来说是活跃用户的评论。

for us we don't we you know if someone just bought a car they never been on to you know uh dealerator or they haven't been to our site or you know have that many cars or dealerator to read review in four or five years we want that content to show up at the top right because we show it chronologically rather than being buried at the bottom under other reviews so I think Yelp takes a different approach to curating their content that I just philosophically don't line with that that other that other reviews thing is like the bane of my existence that thing is I can't tell you how many how many frustrating phone calls uh I know people that have had over that so yeah it's I we don't you know it's funny we usually will hear from dealers if they if they really want Yelp to be highlighted or want us to help them monitor Yelp content and we we will and we we do but to be honest over the years the the I think the interest in Yelp from at least in automotive um has significantly dwindled because they're just they're not on a motor focus like we are um and they can provide that feedback I think dealers feel it so they can kind of a bad rap from Yelp which I would tend to agree with I'm curious to hear more about like your insight into the just the current car market figure like being in your position I can only imagine you know how many do you know like roughly how many reviews do you get per day or per month you see yeah so we get about 120,000 reviews a month okay so like my brain is right away saying like if we put all those 120,000 reviews through some you know AI agent and we do like a sentiment check right like you could probably glean like just like a hell of a scent uh of a pulse for what is happening out there um maybe you do that already maybe not you know I'm curious here we're gonna say there but what is um what are you seeing right now like in the market like what's driving people crazy or like or maybe let's rephrase that in a positive way like where are the opportunities to you know improve in the industry right now?

对于我们来说，如果有买家新购了一款汽车，过去并没有典例上网站上浏览，或者对各种汽车和典例网站的评论并不熟悉，我们希望这些新购买的信息能够置顶显示，而不是被其他的评价压在底下，因为我们按时间顺序而非其他方式展示这些内容。我认为Yelp在编辑内容上的方法和我们不同，使得我无法接受他们的方式。这种别的评论构成的东西就是我的痛点，令人沮丧。你无法想象那些围绕这个话题展开的电话沟通对我来说有多么头疼。我们通常会听取经销商的意见，尤其是有关Yelp 黄页网的反馈。我们会努力协助他们处理Yelp的内容。过去几年中，至少在汽车界，我发现对Yelp黄页网的兴趣逐渐减少。因为他们不像我们一样专注于汽车，他们无法提供反馈，我认为经销商都感觉到这一点，而且Yelp也因此得了个坏名声，我个人也赞同这个看法。 我很好奇你对目前的车市有什么见解。从你的角度来看，我无法想象你每天或每月大约能收到多少评价。我们每月会收到大约120,000的评论。那么，如果我们将这120,000条评论都通过一种人工智能引擎进行情感分析，你可能就能了解市面上的动态。也许你已经在做这个了，也许还没有，我不知道。不过我很好奇你观察到了什么。在现在的市场上，有什么让人饱受困扰的事？或者我们可以从积极的方面来说，有什么可以提升的机会？

So you're right I mean we have a tremendous amount of content and we're working on some data uh hopefully that we'll look it out there in a in a couple months but yeah we're you know I think the the most common concern or complaint that we hear from consumers is lack of communication not being not getting you know timely follow-ups whether it be for sales or service that's what we see most often is the consumers are frustrated with the fact that they're just not getting a call back or they're when they're going to call back it's too late which kind of dovetails into something that we recently started collecting feedback on on cars.com which is how did dealers do handling leaves that were submitted through cars and what we found now through um you know hundreds of thousands of points of feedback and over maybe 12,000 dealerships is that 30 percent of dealerships are sorry 30 percent of the leads submitted through cars.com aren't getting a response within 72 hours from the dealership so that's a tremendous amount of leads that are getting submitted that just aren't getting a response or maybe getting a late response right so that goes back to the communication piece which is then that comes through in the review content is that consumers are generally sort of discouraged with the quality of the communication or they're leaving a message and not getting a call back or they've been inquiring about this car for weeks and now they just heard back and it's been sold so I think that that frustration comes through in the content um so I think that's a big opportunity there for dealers to inspect their BDC processes to make sure that salespeople are being responsive the service advisors are being responsive because it happens on you know obviously in the fixed ops side as well perhaps even more acutely there.

你说得对，我意思是，我们有大量的内容正在研究一些数据，希望在几个月后做一个预览。但是，最常见的消费者担忧或投诉是缺乏沟通，没有得到及时的跟进，不论是销售还是服务。我们最常见的情况就是消费者对于他们没有得到回电或者他们打回电话的时间过晚感到挫败。这其实与我们最近在cars.com开始收集反馈的情况有所吻合，也就是汽车经销商如何处理通过cars.com提交的线索。目前我们已经收集了成千上万个反馈点，涉及到大约12000家经销商，我们发现，通过cars.com提交的线索中有30%的线索在72小时内没有得到汽车经销商的回复。这是大量的线索提交了但没有得到回应，或许是得到一个过普的回复。这就回到了沟通问题，通过评论内容我们看到，消费者普遍对沟通的质量感到不满，他们留言后没有得到回电，或者他们已经询问了这辆车几个星期，而当他们终于听到回音时，车已经被卖掉了。我觉得，这种挫败感在内容中有所体现。因此，我认为这是对经销商一个很大的机会，他们应该检查自己的业务发展中心的流程，确保销售人员和服务顾问能够及时回应，因为这个问题显然也存在于一些固定操作中，这个问题可能在那里更为严重。

What is that but what is that emblematic of like do you think that's a do you think that's like a structural flaw in the dealership model like does the dealership model have to you know does it does it have to change like is that just not part of the process somehow in the future is that automated or is this something that you think if if it's done right consumers prefer it like what do you think about that? I think well I think you know it to be responsive it should be something that's sort of first and foremost on the mind of any customer focused dealership. I think there will sort of evolve into the tools that allow dealerships to be more responsive in the future. It's you know not just that someone wants to talk to a human it could be just a text or a note or something something that shows that they actually got your correspondence and they will get back to you right sometimes people just want to know that they've been heard um so I think that you know as dealership model evolves you know people want to connect with humans I think we'll always have that component of the carbine experience and so um you know as long as we can provide dealers with examples that could that and then actually what's interesting is with this lead handling scoring that I just described we can provide dealers the actual leads that weren't responded to so you can take that data and go back and say okay like who who when did this lead come in who is supposed to call this person back why didn't they so if you want to get tactical and dig into it we can provide you with that data um but I think dealers in general just need to understand that just the the foundation of a good customer experience is being communicative.

“这是什么样的情况呢？这象征着什么？你认为这是汽车经销商模式的一个结构性缺陷吗？你认为汽车经销商模式需要改革吗？这是否就是未来某种程序的一部分，是否会自动化，或者这是你认为如果做得好，消费者会更偏爱的一样东西呢？你对此有什么看法？” “我认为，作为响应，这应该是任何注重客户的汽车经销商首先要考虑的事情。我认为将来会有工具让经销商变得更具有响应性。这并不仅仅是说有人想和人交谈，他们可能只是想发一条短信，或者写一张便条，或者有些东西，表明他们已经收到了你的函件，并且他们会回复你。有时人们只是想知道他们的声音被人听到了。所以我认为，随着汽车经销商模式的发展，人们想要和人接触，我认为这将始终是汽车购买体验的一部分，只要我们能提供给经销商这样的例子，然后实际上很有趣的是，通过我刚刚描述的这个处理潜在客户的评分，我们可以提供给经销商那些没有得到响应的实际询问。你可以取得这些数据，回头看看，像‘这个潜在客户什么时候来的，应该是谁给他回电话，他们为什么没打？’如果你想深入了解、策略性地研究，我们可以为你提供数据。但我认为，总的来说，汽车经销商需要明白，提供良好的客户体验的基础就是有效的沟通。”

This is going to sound oversimplified but like how are we in 2023 not at a point where any question a customer could possibly have had need to get answered by a human I can't just be automatically answered like again something that you probably know and I don't but like what are like there has to be like you know 10 questions that are like 80% of the questions that customers submit am I right with that like how is that not automated yet and you know like I it would be beautiful to get to a point where you know the the in-store employees and people generally people that work in customer service are are focused on um you know focused on that the in person kind of experience um and where all that stuff behind the scene is automated like is that is that a kind of a future we're headed towards what do you think about that?

这或许会听起来过于简单，但我真的不明白，为什么到了2023年，我们还是不能达到这样一个状态：任何客户可能提出的问题，都不需要人工回答，而是可以自动化地得到答案。你可能知道，我不知道，但是客户提交的问题中，是否有十个问题占了八成以上？我是对的吧？为何我们还没有实现这些问题的自动化解答？你看，如果能达到这个状态，商店内的员工以及一般的客服人员都能专注于提供面对面的服务体验，而所有后台事务都可以自动化处理，那该有多好。那这是我们未来的发展趋势吗？你对此又怎么看？

I don't know I think there will always be a mix of technology and human and human interaction that's important in a transaction like this I think if if we ever get there it's it's a long way down the road and and and I'm not sure what that what that looks like because like I can't quite visualize it that's some kind of dystopian future but I you know I do think that as long as we are humans and we want to buy you know we like we want to make big purchases we want to shake someone's hand and we want to have a communication you know we like we want to talk with someone before we purchase you want to get comfortable.

我不知道，我认为在这样的交易中，技术和人类的交互永远会有结合的存在。我认为，如果我们能到达那个点，那还需要很长的时间。而且我不确定那看起来将会怎样，因为我无法完全想象出那样的情景，那是一种反乌托邦未来。但你知道，我认为只要我们还是人，我们有购物的需求，我们想要买东西，我们想要进行大额购买，我们想要握手，我们希望在购买之前与人交流，希望能够感到舒适。

yeah yeah you know I had um I hired someone a couple years back and I was really interesting because we had this whole like this whole vision at the time of um you know going more kind of going more online and um just you know just you know evolving the customer experience but specifically we were we were trying to pick up lessons from other players in industry that were really heavy online obviously Carvana was one of them and I remember this guy telling me he said he said I'll tell you a secret he's like um and for and I can't confirm this so take him with a grain of salt but he said Carvana's customer service center in Arizona is bigger than any other room or office or anything you could imagine pretty much implying that you know customers and I don't know what percentage today but customers are you know calling in you know like it's it's the sale is still sort of happening with a human just happening remotely and I just you know found a fascinating because I think if you're not from the industry and you look at like someone like Carvana or you know any other player that's really heavy online you kind of think like oh yeah they're you know people are just buying online they're not talking to someone and it was pretty eye opening to see that you know to kind of learn about just the customer service teams that are behind these companies that are you know speaking with many many customers that are buying cars on them so that was interesting insight right

嗯，嗯，你知道，两年前我雇了一个人，这很有意思，因为那时我们有个大致的愿景，就是更多地转向线上，改进客户体验。具体来说，我们试图从其他在线业务量很大的同行那里借鉴经验，显然Carvana就是其中之一。我记得有个人跟我说，他告诉我一个秘密，他说不能保证这个说法的准确性，所以只能取其精华，他说Carvana在亚利桑那州的客户服务中心比你能想象到的任何其他房间或办公室还要大。这实际上暗示客户，我不知道现在的百分比是多少，但客户正在以远程方式接电话，销售仍在人的辅助下进行，我觉得这很吸引人，因为我认为，如果你不是来自销售行业，而你看到像Carvana这样的线上业务量很大的电商，你可能会认为，嗯，他们在网上购买，不需要和人聊天。看到这些公司背后的客户服务团队，了解到他们与许多购买汽车的客户交谈，这是相当大的启示。所以这是个有趣的见解，对吧。

yeah I'm I'm not surprised man I think AI will help improve customer support I don't think it's necessarily going to replace the human customer experience so I think we'll we'll find efficiencies through AI and I think you know we'll you know models will be built that that allow dealerships manufacturers to leverage AI to answer a lot of frequently asked questions but I think when it comes to very specific customizations and actually you know finalizing a purchase there there is there's a lot to be said for the offline in-store experience I think that's what we're focused on empowering is is both both sides of that both the online getting folks comfortable with where they're going comfortable with who they're going to go talk to getting as much of the work done as they can in advance and then going into the dealership to finish the transaction at the local level

我并不惊讶，我认为人工智能将有助于改善客户服务。我并不认为它必然会取代人类的客户体验，我认为我们会通过人工智能找到各种效率。我想模型将会被建立出来，这将使经销商、制造商能够利用AI来回答许多经常被问到的问题。但我认为，当涉及到非常具体的定制化以及实际完成购买时，线下门店体验仍然有着很大的价值。我认为我们的主要关注点是赋能这两方面，让顾客对他们将要去的地方，将要和谁交谈等感到舒服。让他们尽可能提前完成工作，然后到经销店完成交易。

do you see any patterns with like specific brands like could you say like certain brands or certain OEMs like have the best reviews for you know sales experience ownership experience what do you see across that

你有没有看到任何关于特定品牌的模式？你能否说出哪些品牌或者原始设备制造商在销售体验和所有权体验上获得了最好的评价？你在这方面有什么见解？

Yeah we know we've we've got some data that will be coming out shortly on on that I would just say general not to name names today but I you know I think we've we've found that largely OEMs are doing a great job providing a good consistent customer experience these days yes there are margins of differences between them in various categories and I think one of the competitive differentiators of the way that we collect content is we're asking about various you know aspects of the customer experience at the dealership so price transparency trade-in financing so you're you're really breaking it down to like piece by piece of the customer experience we're breaking it down right so it's not just like hey this overall experience was great but the trading experience was wasn't fantastic financing was great these sales people did a good job and so we want to bring that feedback and I think when you know to be able to roll it up not just at the dealership level but roll it up to. the OEM level and then regionally to say hey you know this is you have an issue with this particular aspect of the customer experience in this particular region I think is really powerful as we think about being able to enable brands to get a little bit of a better bird's eye view of how their retailers are doing so I think brands in general are doing a fantastic job and providing a great customer experience again it's a margin of you know 0.123 or four stars you know between them but I think there is differentiation when you get into the more sort of granular sub-reading categories that you know only were able to provide back to them

我们知道我们即将公布一些数据，关于这个问题，我只是想说，就目前看来，原始设备制造商（OEM）们在提供良好的，一致的客户体验方面做得非常好。当然，他们各自在不同的分类中表现也有所不同。我们收集数据的一个竞争优势在于，我们询问的是顾客在经销商处各个方面的体验，如价格透明度、置换、融资等等。我们将这一体验细化，分析每一环节，而不仅仅是问：“整体体验如何？”真正的问题可能是：“在交易方面体验如何？融资情况如何？销售人员做得好吗？”我们希望收集这样的反馈，并且能够将其汇总，不仅在经销商层面，也能提升到OEM层面，并在各个地区进行分析。例如说：“你在某个地区的某个顾客体验方面存在问题。”我认为这会产生很大的影响，因为我们能帮助品牌更好地全景观察他们的零售商的情况。总的来说，我认为各大品牌在提供出色的客户体验方面做得非常好。是的，他们之间可能只有零点一二三或四星的差距，但当深入细化的子类别时，你会发现存在差异，这些差异是我们能够向他们反馈的。

So, so give us the bottom line right like first of all if I'm a consumer what's the what's the best way to make that car purchase and then if I am in a business owner or dealer what is the best way to leverage you know a platform like dealerator like can you give us like give us the summary or a punchline yeah i mean i think as a as a consumer obviously i'm biased so say you go to cut you know cars.com and start your experience there and and you know there's a tremendous amount you're going to accomplish on that site it's about finding the right car doing the research reading the editorial content valuing your trade-in and getting pre-approved for financing and then at that point selecting the person that you want to work with when you go into dealership to finish the transaction um so get as much as you can done online and then you know um handed off to the local uh retailer that were you know essentially enabling to do their job and complete the transaction so you are definitely saying select that you know select who you're going to work with upfront that's your best chances for success yeah i think when what we found in fact in our data is that when consumers select the person that they want to work with that deal closes at a two and a half times faster rate right so this is a 2.5x increase in lead to close when someone selects the person that they want to work with it's a signal of high intent it means that they are not only serious about buying a car but but they now also like know who they're going to work with that's that's not a mystery to them anymore so it like it clears the path to purchase yeah it makes total sense it makes you more comfortable right is that for service as well by the way uh yeah i mean we so service advisors are rated on our our platform all the time and in fact i would say that service reviews are really hard to get because it's a lot harder to get someone excited about writing review of an old change job than it is the brand new car right but if if if you can get great service reviews those are even more valuable than good sales reviews because people want to work with dealerships that they can see having a long-term relationship with and so the reading the service reviews ironically is important to people who are looking to buy a car because they not only want to see that the car buying experience was.

那么，首先，如果我是消费者，最好的购车方式是什么？其次，如果我是一家业务所有者或经销商，如何最好地利用像dealerator这样的平台呢？能为我们做个总结或者点明要点吗？ 我认为作为一个消费者，我有偏见所以你应该去像cars.com这样的网站开始你的体验，并且在那里你可以完成很多事情。例如，找到合适的车、做调查研究、阅读编辑内容、评估你的旧车交换价值、预先银行授信，然后选择你想要和谁一起完成交易。在网上尽可能多的了解信息，然后再交给本地的零售商完成交易。 所以，你其实是在建议我们在开始之前就选择好要合作的人，这会是成功的最大机会？ 我认为我们的数据显示，当消费者选择他们想要合作的人时，交易的关闭速度会提高2.5倍。这意味着他们不仅对购车有决心，而且知道他们要和谁合作，这就消除了他们的疑惑，更顺畅地完成购车。 这听起来很有道理，因为这会让你感觉更加舒服。这也适用于服务吗？ 我们的平台上一直都有服务顾问的评级。实际上，我觉得获取服务评论非常困难，因为要让人对写一篇关于换油这样的旧车维修的评论感到兴奋，比写一篇关于全新汽车的评论更难。但如果你能获得高质量的服务评论，这比销售评论更有价值，因为人们想要和他们能看到有长期关系的经销商合作。所以，阅读服务评论对于那些即将购车的人来说很重要，因为他们不仅想看到购车的体验如何，他们还想从长远的角度考虑。

Painless but that when they need to bring the car back to that local retailer for service they're going to do a great job so that's a really interesting aspect something that we found over the years is that service reviews are potentially even more valuable or not potentially but are even more valuable than sales reviews because they're harder to get but they they're much more impactful on buyer choice so it's interesting and then on the dealer side what were you going to say yeah so on the dealer side i think you know what's what we take a lot of pride in and this goes back to sort of being able to get more granular with the experience is you know we want to make sure the dealers have as much visibility into their dealership experience as we can provide to them so when we ask for feedback from consumers unlike google we're asking for you know how did the dealership do with the trade and experience with the financing experience with the speed of the transaction with pricing transparency. with the quality of work if it's a service lane rate the people that you did business with so we can provide a really interesting important powerful granular data back to dealers to empower them to get better and so it's not just the consumer side of the marketplace and showing the good and the bad of experience but it's also empowering dealers who are engaged with our platform and engaged with providing a great customer experience ways that they can get better not just that someone had a bad experience but someone dropped the ball during the trade and experience so this person dropped the ball during the trade and experience and you need to go talk with them with bdc's not calling people back so you need to go deal with that so we want dealerships to get better we also want to make sure that the dealers that are providing good customer experience are the ones that get their vehicles seen by more consumers on the site because we have you know we want to make sure that the consumers on cars.com are getting a good experience and finding the right vehicle for them and that they can go and get that deal done at the dealership.

非常轻松，但是当他们需要把汽车带回当地零售商进行服务时，他们会做得非常好，这是一个非常有趣的方面。多年来我们发现，服务评论可能甚至比销售评论更有价值，不是可能，而是确实更有价值，因为它们更难得到，但对买家的选择有更大的影响，这很有趣。然后在经销商这边，你要说什么呢？是的，对于经销商来说，我们需要的是他们能看到他们的经销商体验，我们想尽可能地为他们提供这种能力；所以，当我们向消费者征求反馈时，不像Google那样求大而全，我们是想知道经销商在交易体验、融资体验、交易速度、价格透明度方面的表现如何，如果是服务道的话，那么对于工作质量的评价又如何？你和他们做生意的体验怎么样呢？所以，我们可以为经销商提供非常有趣、重要且有力的细分数据，使他们能够更好。所以，这不仅仅是市场中的消费者看到的好坏体验，也是让参与我们平台的经销商有能力为客户提供更好的体验。 并不只是说有人有了不好的体验，而是说在交易过程中有人犯了错误，所以你需要和这个人谈谈，或者说是拨打电话回访客户的人没有完成工作，你需要去处理这个问题。我们既希望经销商能够变得更好，也希望能够提供好的客户体验的经销商能够被更多的消费者在网站上看到他们的汽车，因为我们想确保Cars.com上的消费者能够得到好的体验，找到适合他们的汽车，然后他们可以去经销商那里完成交易。

Well dude you've built a hell of a product so congrats this is uh it's really really impressive before we hop off I do have one other question like what's the what's your vision for the evolution of the product like what does the future look like you know you mentioned AI like is there any like an interesting implementation how do you think about that?

嘿，兄弟，你发明的产品实在是太棒了，恭喜你，这真的让人印象深刻。在我们结束之前，我还有一个问题，你对产品的未来发展有什么设想？你的未来图景是什么？你提到过AI，有没有什么有趣的实施方案，你是怎么看待这个问题的？

Well I think you know we're very much in early innings with AI I think there's a lot of interesting applications there both from a consumer facing review summarization standpoint which we've started to do some you know there's some some dealers that have 5,000 reviews and consumers are going to scroll through every every review but they would love to read a thumbnail sketch of how that dealership's doing the good and the bad so we're leveraging AI for for that. We'll you know we'll leverage it in content moderation as well to get better and smarter with how we ensure that we have a more um fair and sort of balanced way in which we moderate content but I think ultimately at the end of the day we want to be the definitive voice of the customer for automotive we want cars commerce to be the platform that provides not only you know the most transparent and useful and delightful experience for consumers to shop for vehicles and to choose the right person but also to enable local retailers to get better and so there are lots of ways we can do that through through AI that it all starts with content and so we're focused on on collecting that content making sure that we are that sort of industry vacuum that takes all of that customer feedback and processes it in a consumer facing way but you know helps enable the you know the local all the retail experience but also at the end of the day helps push the industry forward because it could it goes back to the mission of what you know why we were built originally which was to improve the automotive retail experience for both buyers and sellers and so we're going to stay true to that but continue to innovate along the way with how we collect content and how we share it back with consumers and also dealers

嗯，我认为你应该知道我们在AI方面还处于比赛的早期阶段。我认为在这里有很多有趣的应用，无论是从消费者面临的评论汇总的角度，我们已经开始做一些，你知道有些经销商有5000条评论，消费者不会浏览每一条评论，但他们会很喜欢阅读关于那家经销商表现得好和不好的简介，因此我们正在利用AI来做这个。我们将在内容管理方面也利用它，让我们的内容管理方式能更加公平、合理。但我认为最终，我们希望成为汽车领域中的消费者之声，我们希望 “汽车商务”成为一个平台，不仅提供最透明、最有用、最令人愉快的购车体验，让消费者选择合适的人，同时也帮助本地的零售商提升他们的业绩。我们可以通过AI做到这一点，但这都需要以内容为基础，因此我们专注于收集这种内容，确保我们是这个行业的信息采集器，把所有客户反馈信息以面向消费者的方式处理和展现出来，同时帮助提升本地的零售体验，同时也推动行业的进步，因为这回到了我们最初建立的使命，即改进汽车零售体验，为买方和卖方提供更好的服务，所以我们会坚守这个原则，但同时也会在如何收集内容和如何与消费者以及经销商分享这些内容的方式上进行创新。

I love it Jamie thanks so much and and if anyone wants to to learn more about you dealerator the platform where can they reach where can they come to you yeah sure so i'm Jamie J me at cars commerce dot dink or Jamie at dealerator.com but dealerator is now officially um the sort of you know reputation capability for cars commerce and anyone can reach me there anytime and happy to engage with anyone in your audience and well and i'll put the link in the show notes as well so it's going to be down there as well Jamie thanks for coming on this was awesome great to talk with you thanks for having me all right hope you enjoyed that episode please give the podcast a rating consider subscribing to the show and check the show notes. for links to what we talked about thanks for tuning in i'll see you guys next time

比如说：我很喜欢，杰米，非常感谢。如果有人想了解更多关于你和Dealerator 平台的信息，他们可以去哪里寻找或联系你呢？没问题，我是Jamie，我可以在carscommerce点com或是在dealerator点com被联系到。Dealerator现在正式成为Cars Commerce的声誉平台，任何人都能随时通过这里联系到我，并很高兴能与你的观众互动。并且，我会将链接放在节目笔记中，所以它也会在那儿。杰米，谢谢你的参与，很高兴与你交谈，谢谢你的赞助。好的，希望大家能喜欢这一节目。请给这个播客评分，考虑订阅这个节目，并查看我们讨论的链接。感谢您的倾听，下次节目再见。