Abacus： Small Enough to Jail (full documentary) ｜ FRONTLINE
发布时间 2023-10-24 10:04:51 来源
中英文字稿 
Tonight, these defendants are charged with engaging in a systematic scheme to falsify and fabricate loan applications. The little-known story about the only bank prosecuted for mortgage fraud after the financial meltdown. At first, you think that they're here to figure out what's going on for us. We transition to, wait a minute, maybe we're the target.
今晚，被告人被指控参与了一个系统性的伪造和编造贷款申请的计划。这是关于金融危机后唯一一家受到抵押贷款欺诈指控的鲜为人知的故事。一开始，你以为他们在这里为我们搞清楚到底发生了什么。然后我们意识到，等一下，也许我们是他们的目标。
A family business caught up in a national crisis. I think Americans were upset that the security against which loans were made were often fictitious and in abacus. There was some truth to that too. And fighting to survive. Tom is not easy to be pushed around. And my girls, they're tough. Smart, capable women. It's trying for us because it's our father's legacy. And he's passed that legacy on to us. Right on for fine, from Steve James, the director of Hoop Dreams and the Interrupters. Abacus, small enough to jail.
一个卷入国家危机中的家族企业。我认为美国人对于以全都是虚构的抵押品来贷款的安全性感到不满，并且用算盘计算。这一点有些真实。他们正在为生存而战。汤姆不容易被推倒。而我的女儿们，她们坚强。聪明、有能力的女性。这对我们来说很艰难，因为这是我们父亲的遗产。他将这个遗产传给了我们。从《篮球梦》和《制止者》的导演史蒂夫·詹姆斯口中传来好消息。《小算盘，足够入狱》。
I owe everything to George Bailey. Help him, dear father. This time I saw his wonderful life, I had tremendous respect for George Bailey, who was the main character. He did so much good for the community. Mr. and Mrs. Martini, welcome home. George was lending money to the community resident to buy houses. Me, Giuseppe Martini, I owe you my own house. And that's exactly the same purpose that when we started the bank, it was our motivation to help a lot of people, a lot of immigrants. This movie touches me so much. The family, the friends. I always watch it. Every year I watch. That makes me cry. If that's the part. I wish this story could end the same way as it's wonderful life. But in reality, it is not that simple.
我欠George Bailey一切。亲爱的父亲，请帮助他。这一次我看到了他美妙的生活，我对主角George Bailey产生了极大的尊敬。他为社区做了很多好事。马蒂尼先生和夫人，欢迎回家。George借钱给社区居民购买房屋。我，Giuseppe Martini，欠你我的房子。而当初我们创办这家银行时，同样的目的就是帮助很多人，很多移民。这部电影触动了我很多。所有的家人，朋友。我每年都会看。它让我哭泣。如果那一部分是真实的。我希望这个故事的结局能像《美好的一生》一样。但事实上，并不那么简单。
Today we are announcing the indictment of 19 individuals on charges, including mortgage fraud, securities fraud, and conspiracy. As well as the indictment of Abacus Federal Savings Bank, a federally chartered bank that has been catering to the Chinese immigrant community since 1984. If we have learned anything from the recent mortgage crisis, it's that at some point these schemes unravel and taxpayers can be left holding the bank.
今天我们宣布起诉19名个人，罪名包括抵押贷款欺诈、证券欺诈和阴谋。同时也起诉了阿北银行（Abacus Federal Savings Bank）。这家联邦特许银行自1984年以来一直为华裔移民社区提供服务。如果从最近的抵押贷款危机中我们学到了什么，那就是这些计划最终会破产，纳税人可能会陷入困境。
The DA made such a big parade bringing people from Washington. All these tough law enforcement officers and making such a big announcement that we are part of the cause of an initial crisis of 2008. Almost laughable. Mr. Sun is entitled to his opinions, but in Abacus' loan department, mortgages were based upon false documentation. We have evidence of conspiracy, arsenic, and systemic fraud. If that prosecution goes through, that bank is going to go out of business. There's no question about it. They're going to lose their charter, and it's going to enormously impact that community. Too big to fail turns into small enough to jail, and Abacus is small enough to jail.
检察官搞了这么大的阵势，从华盛顿请了这么多人来。所有这些强硬的执法人员，又发布了这么重大的声明，说我们是2008年初危机的一部分。几乎可笑。孙先生有权发表自己的意见，但在阿巴库斯的贷款部门，按照虚假文件进行抵押贷款是事实。我们有串谋、纵火和系统性欺诈的证据。如果起诉通过，那家银行将面临倒闭，毫无疑问。他们将失去执照，给那个社区带来巨大的影响。"太大而不能倒闭"变成了"小得足以入狱"，而阿巴库斯足够小而能被入狱。
I walk around here. Of course, I feel very much at home. This is a very tasty noodle shop. I was born in Shanghai in the year 1935. At the age of 16, I immigrated to the United States. I went to law school, and I moved to Chinatown. There was not many Chinese lawyers, so I did a lot of personal work. This building with the Chinese National Flag is the Chinese Community Center, and in there is the headquarter of Chinese consolidated banana association. I represented the Association for years and years and years. This association sponsored a school, and I obtained the charter from Department of Education. Some people in the community, older people, in particular, remembers me, know what I've done.
我在这里四处走动。当然，我感到非常的舒适自在。这家面馆的味道非常好。我在1935年出生在上海。16岁时，我移民美国。我上了法学院，然后搬到了唐人街。当时几乎没有中国律师，所以我做了很多个人咨询的工作。这座有中国国旗的建筑物是中国社区中心，里面设有中国统一香蕉协会总部。我多年多年地代表着该协会。该协会赞助了一所学校，并且我从教育部获得了特许状。社区中的一些人，尤其是年长的人，还记得我，知道我所做的事情。
Back when I was a lawyer, there was no bank that was owned by Chinese and serving Chinese. This is Chinatown, New York City, warm, colorful, cheerful, a wonderful place for sightseeing. This man is on his way to the bank. What is it about the bank that makes our man feel at home? In the very design, beautifully bright with the primary Chinese colors, and he sees home in the soft, sweet smile of the teller. At that time, banks in this community had several hundred millions of dollars of Chinese deposit, and I went to a bank to try to borrow money, but they do not lend money and deal with the community. He always told us stories that they were willing to take his deposits, but they weren't really to give him credit, loans. So that's why he started the bank, because he felt that wasn't fair to the community.
在我还是位律师的时候，没有一家由中国人拥有并为华人服务的银行。这是纽约市的唐人街，温暖、多彩、欢乐，一个观光的好地方。这个人正要去银行。是什么让我们的这位先生觉得在银行里就像在家一样呢？从设计上来说，银行的装饰采用了鲜艳的中国传统色彩，而且他在出纳员亲切、甜美的微笑中看到了家的感觉。那时候，这个社区的银行拥有几亿美元的中国存款，而我去一家银行尝试借贷，但是他们不借钱给社区里的人。他总是告诉我们故事，说他们愿意收他的存款，但是并不真正愿意给他信用、贷款。所以他开始创办了这家银行，因为他觉得这对社区是不公平的。
I remember when we were children, my dad was excited about this venture that he was going to start, and he involved us in the decisions of what would be the symbol for the bank, and I remember we would all try to design something.
我记得我们还是孩子的时候，我的爸爸对要开始的这个冒险感到兴奋，他让我们参与了银行标志的决策，我记得我们都在尝试设计一些东西。
Abiguss, you know, is the Chinese calculator. China regard Abiguss as a national treasure, so we say, we'll name the bank Abiguss.
阿必谷斯，你知道的，是中国的计算器。中国把阿必谷斯视为国家宝藏，因此我们说，我们将把银行命名为阿必谷斯。
Hello, can you open for me? We serve people who've never even dealt with the banking system before, and you try to bring them into the banking system.
你好，你能为我开门吗？我们为从未接触过银行系统的人提供服务，而你尝试将他们引入银行系统中。
An example of that is to save deposit boxes. Have you ever seen so many boxes? There are 8,000 plus boxes in this vault. 8,000, the Chinese people, particularly immigrants, they rent houses in a very tight quarter. There's no place for them to place their variables, except in a bank vault. So it starts with a save deposit boxes, then they really put their money into the bank, and then let the money grow, and then later on they will take that money and use it to buy a home.
一个例子就是存储保险箱。你有没有见过这么多保险箱？在这个金库里有8000多个保险箱。8000，中国人，尤其是移民，他们在非常繁忙的地方租房子。除了银行的金库，他们没有地方放置他们的财物。所以他们开始用保险箱存钱，然后真正把钱存在银行，让钱增长，然后以后他们会拿出这些钱来购买一套房子。
At the actual closing, many of the bars bring their whole family with them, and they bring their children and their grandmother, and by the time they walk out, they're all super happy, and you feel good to be a part of that process.
在实际封店时，很多酒吧会把全家人都带过来，他们会带上孩子和外婆，当他们走出来的时候，他们都非常开心，而你也会感到很高兴能参与其中的过程。
We tried to have the right. I don't remember her working right now. You get them saying, yeah, we're going to go. Ah, come on, oh, yeah. Do you have the chicken feed on there? No, oh, that's always special. Yeah, it's bitter, it's all. It's bitter, it's all. You will do it. That's the butt. You don't want to eat that. I like it. She doesn't eat that much, you can eat it, in part, leading up to the butt.
我们试图争取权利。我现在不记得她在工作。你听到他们说，“是的，我们要去。”啊，来吧，噢，是的。你那上面有鸡饲料吗？没有，噢，那总是特别的。是的，它很苦，这就是全部。它很苦，就是全部。你可以做到的。那是屁股。你不想吃那个。我喜欢它。她不吃那么多，你可以吃，部分地，延伸到屁股。
I never thought my girls would work in Chinatown. Because we lived in Greenwich, Connecticut. Tom would be commuting every day, you know, like an hour and a half each way. So he didn't see them that much in those days. They had no idea anything, not a faintest idea about the Chinese community. In fact, Heather still doesn't. She hates the city, you know. She's like me, we both have headaches.
我从来没有想过我的女孩会在唐人街工作。因为我们住在康涅狄格州的格林尼治。汤姆每天都要通勤，你知道吗，每天来回要一个半小时。所以在那段时间他很少见到她们。她们对中国社区一无所知，连一点点都不知道。事实上，希瑟现在还是不知道。她讨厌这个城市，你知道的。我们俩都头疼。
And at home, when we don't want them to understand we speak Chinese, you always said to me, if you come work for the bank, the benefit will be you have a nine to forge. A hundred, four? He said nine to forge. Yeah, because long time ago people could leave at three for the bank. He said you can have children, you can have a family. You know what he said to me? He said, if you wish to work with me, remember this is your own choice. And don't think it's going to be easy. You gave me two different stories.
而在家里，当我们不想让他们听懂时，我们说中文，你经常对我说，如果你来银行工作，好处就是你可以只工作八小时。一百、四？他说只工作八小时。是的，因为很久以前，人们可以三点就离开银行。他说你可以有孩子，可以有一个家庭。你知道他对我说了什么吗？他说，如果你想和我一起工作，记住这是你自己的选择。而且别以为会很容易。你给了我两个不同的故事。
You know, people ask me, so why in the world you wanted to get into banking? It's not because I needed a job. I was practicing law. I was busy, but I said to myself, it's time for me to do something for the society. That started from year years time.
你知道吗，人们经常问我，为什么你要进入银行业呢？并不是因为我需要一份工作。我之前一直在从事法律工作，工作很忙，但我告诉自己，是时候为社会做些贡献了。这一切始于几年前。
Grandpa. Grandpa. Grandpa. He always thought that was the honorable thing to do. That's not unusual. A lot of people in Chinatown, your generation, they believe that was honorable, to be entrusted. And to be trusted. To be trusted with the public funds. Yeah, that's right.
爷爷，爷爷，爷爷。他总是认为这是光荣的事情。这并不奇怪。唐人街有很多与你同一代的人，他们都相信这是光荣的，被委以重任，被信任。被信任来管理公款。是的，没错。
Do you have a copy of the pale letter? Is that me?
你有一份苍白的信的副本吗？那是关于我吗？
This whole five year ordeal began in December of 2009. I had a closing that day involving one of our loan officers, Ken Yu. Ken Yu worked with us around four years. The staff really liked him. He was very popular. He had some charisma.
这整个五年的艰辛始于2009年12月。那天我有一个要进行的收尾工作，涉及到我们的一位贷款主管肯·于。肯·于在我们这工作了大约四年时间。员工们非常喜欢他，他非常受欢迎。他有一些个人魅力。
It was a normal closing. He was the cell of the journey and it was a buyer. But there was a lot of tension in the closing. They weren't getting a loan. They were arguing over things. The attorney asked me a question about additional monies and the borrower said that she was paying. It didn't make sense to me. So I called Ken Yu and I asked him, what are these checks? He just got, oh, blah, blah, blah, hedging and not answering.
这是一个正常的交易结束过程。他是旅程的核心，而买方则是借款人。但在交易结束时有很多紧张的氛围。他们无法得到贷款，正在就一些事情争吵。律师问了我一个关于额外资金的问题，借款人表示她会支付。这对我来说不合理。所以我打电话给肯尤，问他这些支票是什么意思。他只是说了些虚话和不回答的话。
Vira was very upset. This girl gave thousands of dollars, I'm told, to this loan officer. And she thought they would be applied to what's her closing course and they weren't. It was very shocking.
维拉非常沮丧。我听说这个女孩给了几千美元给这位贷款官员，她本以为这些钱会用于她即将结束的课程，但事实并非如此。这让她感到非常震惊。
I said, this loan cannot close. That was Friday. Then on Monday, Ken came in and I farted him that day because he was lying all over the place. Ken Yu stole money. That he was running a money laundering operation on his own. I'm being asked to everybody here. Obviously committed fraud. I referred the case to our compliance officer and then we hired an outside consultant, a former federal prosecutor who was highly experienced in fraud and anti-monolingering investigations.
我说了，这笔贷款无法完成。那是星期五。然后星期一，Ken进来了，因为他到处说谎，我对他发表了一番雷人言论。Ken Yu偷了钱。他独立运营着一起洗钱的行动。我向这里的所有人提了这个问题。显然是犯了欺诈行为。我将这案件转交给了我们的合规官员，然后我们雇了一位外部顾问，一位经验丰富的前联邦检察官，专门负责欺诈和反洗钱调查。
During our investigation, we found two other loan officers who were engaged in wrongdoing, nothing at the level of Ken Yu, but we fired them nonetheless. And some other staff also resigned shortly after we notified Fannie Mae.
在我们的调查过程中，我们发现了另外两名贷款主管参与了不当行为，虽然没有肯·余那么严重，但我们仍然将他们解雇了。而且在我们通知房利美之后，还有其他员工也很快辞职了。
They actually not only fired the loan officer and canceled the closing, they went straight to the office of thrift management, which was their regulator, and they told them about it. So it was this perfect evidence of a bank finding out something that shouldn't be happening and taking steps to make sure this didn't happen again.
他们实际上不仅解雇了贷款主管并取消了交易的完结，他们还直接去了他们的监管机构——储蓄管理办公室，并向他们报告了此事。因此，这是银行发现一些不应该发生的事情并采取措施确保不再发生的完美证据。
The couple unfortunately lost down payment on this house, which was, you know, quite a chunk of money. It was 10% of the house's price. You were very upset. And at that point, the borrower, she calls me, she's like, you know, there's this money that he's taken from me. So what are you going to do? And I said to her, I remember I was furious. I'm like, what am I going to do? Because I'm thinking to myself, maybe she's in cahoots with Ken Yu to defraud the bank. I said, if you have a problem, you should go file a complaint of the police precinct.
这对夫妇不幸地失去了这栋房子的首付款，这笔钱可不少。它相当于房价的10%。你们非常沮丧。在那时，这位借款人给我打电话，说有人骗了她的钱。于是我问她，你打算怎么办？我生气地对她说，我该怎么办呢？因为我当时在想，也许她和Ken Yu串通起来诈骗银行。我告诉她，如果你有问题，你应该去警察局报案。
A complaint was filed with the local precinct. The initial DA's office investigation was focused solely on the employee who had been accused of a theft. The DA's office started asking those questions. Everybody who asked us for something, we gave them. We thought we actually went beyond what we were supposed to do. My compliance officer actually put together binders for her staff. And so basically, the beginning of the case was handed to her team in binder form.
当地派出所收到了一份投诉。最初地方检察官办公室的调查仅集中在被指控偷窃的雇员身上。检察官办公室开始询问了那些问题。每个向我们提出要求的人，我们都满足了。我们实际上认为我们超出了我们应该做的。我的合规官员实际上为她的团队整理了文件夹。所以基本上，这个案子的开始以文件夹形式交给了她的团队。
At first, you think that they're here to figure out what's going on for us because they're law enforcement. I don't know where and at what point we transitioned to in their mind. And their mind. And then us realizing, wait a minute, maybe we're the target.
一开始，你会认为他们来这里是为了弄清楚发生了什么事情，因为他们是执法部门的人员。我不知道我们在他们的思维中何时发生了转变，又是在什么时候发生的。然后我们意识到，等一下，也许我们是目标。
We spent a lot of time investigating and ended up absolutely convinced that the loan department was corrupt pretty much through and through. Mr. Wong ran the loan department and widespread fraud was occurring in front of him every day.
我们花了很多时间进行调查，最终完全确信贷款部门几乎完全被腐败侵蚀了。王先生负责贷款部门，每天都发生着广泛的欺诈行为，而他就在眼前。
In July 2011, two of the policemen went to my house and asked me to go to the district attorney office to have an interview. But I refuse.
在2011年7月，两名警察来到了我的家，并要求我去地方检察官办公室接受访谈。然而，我拒绝了。
The office was convinced that the knowledge of that corruption went up to high enough people in the bank that the bank was legally responsible for it.
办公室相信，银行高层对于那起腐败行为的了解程度已经足够高，以至于银行在法律上应对其负有责任。
Let me assure you that we do not take lightly the charges that we announced today. Now, these defendants, the bank and former employees and managers from its loan department are charged with engaging in a systematic scheme to falsify and fabricate loan applications to the federal National Mortgage Association, commonly known as Fannie Mae.
让我向您保证，我们对于今天宣布的指控并不轻视。现在，这些被告包括银行以及其贷款部门的前雇员和管理人员，他们被指控参与一项有系统的计划，伪造和捏造向联邦国家抵押贷款协会（通常被称为Fannie Mae）提交的贷款申请。
When the actual indictment occurred, I think the greatest fear was that it would directly involve Jill. And that was something that was incomprehensible to us just knowing how we were raised, that she could ever be guilty of something like that. I mean, I think they definitely were looking, trying to get us to get me. Yeah, because I'm the CEO and president. But they did not charge me individually because they did not have any evidence to support that I was involved in the wrongdoing. We felt that the provable evidence stopped at a certain level, but that the individuals who were charged were high enough of the corporation to charge the corporation.
当真正的起诉发生时，我认为最大的恐惧是它可能会直接涉及到吉尔。我们知道她是如何被抚养的，她能够犯下那样的事情，这是难以理解的。我的意思是，我想他们肯定是在寻找证据来指控我，因为我是首席执行官和总裁。但是他们没有针对我个人提起指控，因为他们没有任何证据证明我参与了不法行为。我们觉得可证明的证据仅限于某个层面，但是被起诉的个人在公司中的地位足够高，足以让公司受到指控。
It was at the district attorney's office as a prosecutor for seven years. The very division that was bringing this prosecution against the family bank. And when I found out what they were doing, I had to go to my beer chief to let him know that, you know, this was going on. There's a potential conflict here. And it made me so angry that that very same office where I had served and been trained to do that, to know that they were doing this against my family who is me. That's where I come from. And then to know that my reputation in the office was one of utmost integrity. It just made no sense.
我在地方检察官办公室担任检察官工作了七年。就是那个正对家族银行提起诉讼的部门。当我了解到他们在做什么时，我不得不找我的上司，告诉他这件事，因为这可能存在利益冲突。这让我非常愤怒，因为他们正在对待我的家人，而我曾在那个地方服务过，并接受过相关培训，我清楚他们这样做是违背道义的。更让我难以理解的是，我在办公室中的声誉一直以来都是极度正直的。这一切毫无意义。
What was especially interesting was the way the DA pursued the public relations aspect of this prosecution. Reporters in this town were treated to this extraordinary photo opportunity, this almost Stalinist looking chain gang. I'm a former prosecutor. I'm not soft on crime. I've never seen a spectacle like this. These people were humiliated intentionally for no good reason. It is not the district attorney's office's decision whether or not to put people in handcuffs, but people who were brought into court who have been charged with crimes are put into handcuffs. That's a decision that's made by the court officers. I won't go into it more than that because, you know, it's not something I'm involved with.
尤为有趣的是检察官在此次指控中对公共关系方面的追求。这个城镇的记者们得以目睹了这样一个非同寻常的照片机会，几乎让人联想到斯大林主义的劳改囚徒链。作为一名前检察官，我对犯罪不妥协。我从未见过像这样的场面。这些人故意被羞辱，却没有一个充分的理由。是否让人们戴上手铐并不由地方检察官决定，而是由法庭官员决定。我不想详细叙述此事，因为你知道，这不是我参与的事务。
Court officers don't come outside of the courtroom. They were led down a hallway by district attorney investigators. I got off the elevator and I saw what was happening. I had never seen that in my entire time at the DA's office. I mean, this was like the case of the century. He never would have done that with a black group of employees. You know, I mean, everyone would see that for what it was. And they actually staged it so much so that three of the people that were in that chain had already been arraigned, had already posted bond and were out awaiting trial.
法庭官员不会离开法庭。他们被地区检察官的调查员引导通过一个走廊。我下了电梯，看到了正在发生的一切。在我在检察官办公室的整个时间里，我从未见过这种情况。我指的是，这简直就像是世纪案件一样。如果是黑人员工，他是绝对不会这么做的。你知道，我是说，每个人都会看到这其中的问题。他们甚至使这一切看起来非常真实，以至于其中三个人已经被提审，已经交了保释金，并正在等待审判。
The DA had added charges to Mr. Wong's indictment. Usually you don't even have to go through the process again. They just add the charges. You get a grain again. The bail is transferred and that's that. Instead, they had me turn them in and the next thing you know, I see him chained to 15 other people being hurt like cattle down the hallways of 100 Center Street. I've been doing this for 25 years and I've never seen that happen before. There are security issues behind the decision, but those decisions create feelings that are that don't reflect the view of the office or my view. And to the degree that happened here, I think it was very unfortunate, but it happened. It is a humiliation for me. And that's where I saw incompetence combined with arrogance. My deputy bureau chief, he's always so inspirational and he would always refer to the inscriptions outside 100 Center Street about having faith in justice. But I don't I don't believe that anymore. I decided to leave the DA's office.
检察官在黄先生的起诉书中增加了指控。通常情况下，你甚至无需再次经历整个流程，他们只是会增加指控。你就会再次被拘押，保释金会被转移，就这样。然而，他们让我将他们交出来，接下来，你会看到他和其他15个人被像牛一样拴在100 Center Street的走廊里受折磨。我已经从事这个工作25年了，以前从未见过这种事情发生。这个决定背后存在安全问题，但这些决定引起的感受并不代表办公室或我的看法。在这里发生的程度让我非常不幸，但它确实发生了。这对我的尊严是一种侮辱。我看到了无能与傲慢的结合。我的副局长，他总是如此鼓舞人心，总是提到100 Center Street外面的铭文，鼓励人们对正义保持信心。但我不再相信那些了。所以我决定离开检察官办公室。
It really angered the Chinese community, but so what? We're not going to decide an election for events. This is the social where my great grandfather was. My grandfather, my my dad. Back in the days with the exclusion act, people do not have rights. This is where it would all come. Like Mr. Song, what drives me is the sense of community. Okay, okay, okay. This case is about an attack on our community with easy prey. I think that's what's going on. People have reason to be fearful of authority on what can happen to them. You know, the retribution, the years of oppression that happened from the street vendors, from the small businesses, from people just writing tickets because they can. In the city, I think I'm going to vote Republicans and e Darrell's office. It's more than just advocacy of being clear. It's about exonerating our entire community no matter what we do. Be it the little guy selling fetchables or a bank that's doing business. I told Mr. Song I'm glad they pick on you because you're a fighter.
这确实激怒了华人社区，但又怎样呢？我们不会因为这些事件来决定选举。这是我曾祖父所居住的社区，还有我的祖父，我的父亲。在排华法案时期，人们没有权利。这就是一切发生的地方。就像宋先生一样，推动我前进的是对社区的归属感。好的，好的，好的。这个案件关乎对我们社区中容易受到攻击的人的保护。我认为这就是现在正在发生的事情。人们有理由对权威产生恐惧，对自己可能遭受的事情感到担忧。你知道，街头小贩、小型企业和人们发现，他们受到了来自政府的血腥压迫，只因为政府可以随意开罚单。在这个城市，我打算投共和党，并投给达瑞尔的办公室。这不仅仅是为了明确表达我们的立场。无论我们做什么，都是为了洗刷我们整个社区的冤屈，无论是卖小商品的小人物，还是从事银行业务的银行。我告诉宋先生，我很高兴他们盯上了你，因为你是一位斗士。
Cyrus Vance just felt this is easier to attack, especially as a family bank. But he doesn't realize Tom is not easy to be pushed around. And my girls, they're tough, smart, capable women, so courageous. Although this is David versus Goliath, David being Abigail's middle savings bank has a slingshot. And that is, you know, their whole family of lawyers. I was going to be able to fight this. They're almost gleeful. They're like, we're going to have our day in court now. We're actually going to be able to show that they were wrong. They made a decision that they were not going to plead guilty to something that they didn't feel the bank was guilty of. That is a courageous choice. And it's an expensive choice. The DA's office has hundreds of lawyers and took five years to do their grand jury investigations and it is a daunting task to fight the government.
赛勒斯·万斯觉得这样更容易攻击，尤其是作为一个家族银行。但他没有意识到汤姆不好欺负。而且我的女儿们，她们坚强、聪明、有才华，非常勇敢。尽管这像是大卫对战歌利亚，大卫是阿比盖尔的中间储蓄银行有一个弹弓。那就是他们整个律师家族的力量。我准备好和他们战斗了。他们几乎兴奋不已。他们说，我们现在终于能在法庭上为自己辩护了。我们实际上能够证明他们错了。他们决定不承认银行有罪，而他们并不觉得银行有罪。这是一个勇敢的选择。而且这是一个昂贵的选择。检察官办公室有数百名律师，花了五年时间进行大陪审团调查，与政府作斗争是一项艰巨的任务。
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. This is a simple case about a bank that was converted into a criminal conspiracy fueled by greed. Defend an Abigail's Federal Savings Bank engaged in an ongoing mortgage fraud conspiracy. They routinely falsified and faked mortgage documents and then deceived the Federal National Mortgage Association, commonly known as Fannie Mae. They took Fannie Mae's money for loans riddled with lies, all the while promising that the loans contained truthful and verified information. The defendants did this over and over and over again. And between 2005 and 2010, the bank earned millions of dollars servicing and selling fraudulent loans to Fannie Mae. The defendants conspired to steal money from Fannie Mae and did in fact steal money from Fannie Mae.
女士们、先生们，早上好。这个案件很简单，是关于一家银行背离初衷，沦为出于贪婪所驱动的犯罪阴谋的故事。被告，阿比盖尔联邦储蓄银行，涉及着一起持续进行的抵押贷款欺诈阴谋。他们频繁地伪造和假造抵押贷款文件，欺骗联邦住房抵押贷款协会，通常被称为房利美。他们拿了房利美的钱去放贷，而这些贷款充斥着谎言，同时承诺这些贷款所含的信息都是真实且经过核实的。被告一再如此行事，并且在2005年至2010年期间，这家银行通过向房利美服务和销售欺诈贷款赚取了数百万美元。被告合谋从房利美偷取了钱，事实上也确实偷到了钱。
Historians tell us that Abraham Lincoln loved riddles and one of his favorites went like this. If you call a tailor leg, how many legs does a dog have? And the answer is four because calling a tailor leg doesn't make it a leg. Calling Fannie Mae a victim of grand larceny and fraud is like calling a dog's tail a leg. We have no loss. We have no harm. We have no larceny. We have no fraud.
历史学家告诉我们，亚伯拉罕·林肯喜欢谜语，他最喜欢的一个谜语是这样的：如果你把裁缝称作“腿”，那狗会有多少条腿？答案是四条，因为称裁缝为“腿”并不能使它变成一条腿。把范妮·梅称为大规模盗窃和欺诈的受害者，就像把狗的尾巴称作腿一样荒谬。我们没有损失，没有伤害，没有盗窃，没有欺诈。
Heather? Heather? You're on speaker. Okay. So how did everything go today? It was very long day. Exhausted. It was a long day. I'm so tired. Don't get me wrong. I think the lawyer all did a very, very good job. But the feeding, the emotion was a little bit lacking. It could touch the emotion of your case. I agree. There were so many other things that could have been said or should have been said. You got to let your attorney at this point who's been living with this case and feels very strongly about you got to let him. I think he was even be let him do it. He spent the most time talking about how we stopped that closing and he showed you what steps we took. After that if you the jury is not convinced by not extremely extreme.
希瑟？希瑟？你在扬声器上。好的。那么今天一切都进行得如何？今天是非常漫长的一天。精疲力尽。这是一天很长。我真的很累。不要误会。我认为律师们都做得非常非常好。但是对于表达感情方面来说还有些欠缺。他们可以感动到你案件中的情感。我同意。还有很多其他应该说或应该说的事情。你得让你的律师在这个时候可以将这个案子处理得很好，并且对你有很强烈的感觉。我认为他甚至可以得到让他做的机会。他花了最多的时间来讲述我们如何阻止那次闭幕陈述，并且向你展示我们采取的步骤。在那之后，如果陪审团没有被完全说服，那就太过极端了。
I agree with you. The facts are brought out. He's saying your face is dead. And you said that this is the truth. He's saying you're just this. You keep on interrupting. He has to. We love to trust our feelings. But you don't have to be jumping over. I have him. I've been talking actually. He's talking about to the human. I gotta do work. I have to sign off on loans. That's why I'm sending on my desk. I want to speak in a way. I'm not. I'm just saying I gotta get things done. I'm hanging up on you now. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's go. Okay. I'll leave you being out. We have to work now. Let's go.
我同意你的观点。事实已经被提出了。他说你的脸是“dead”（死气沉沉的）。而你说这是真的。他说你就是这样。你一直在打断。他不得不这样做。我们喜欢相信我们的感觉。但你不必这么激动。我已经理解他了。我一直在说话。他在谈论人类。我必须得工作了。我必须签署贷款文件。所以现在我需要处理我的桌子上的事情。我想用一种方式来说话。我并没有。我只是说我必须把事情做完。现在我要挂断电话了。好的。好的。好的。走吧。好的。我就留给你了。我们现在必须工作。走吧。
So there were 180 or so counts in this trial. And let's also remember that there were I think 10 guilty pleas here. The DA, his case was built basically on the fact that he arrested all these very low level loan officers. They started going to people's houses. Many people at 6 in the morning knocking on their door and demanding, not forcing, but demanding that people come down to the district attorney's office and speak to them. And they got a lot of statements from a lot of people using that tactic. We're talking about Chinese people, many of whom have come from a police state. And in China, people are terrified of that, the knock on the door. Good morning, Mr. You. Good morning. When the court officers for you and he asked you your name, you said, Chi Bin You. Is there another name that you go by? Can you? Here's this gentleman, Ken Yu, who was how the bank found out about this misconduct in the first place. The guy that the bank fired, not only was he falsifying documents in order to put through loans, he was stealing money from customers. That guy ends up being the DA's office star witness.
在这次试判中有大约180项指控。还要记住，我想这里有10个认罪。检察官，他的案子基本上是建立在他逮捕了所有这些非常低级别的贷款人员的事实上。他们开始到人们家里去，很多人在早上6点敲门，要求，不是强迫，但要求人们去地方检察官办公室和他们谈话。他们利用这种策略从很多人那里得到了很多陈述。我们谈论的是中国人，其中很多人来自一个警察国家。在中国，人们对敲门感到恐惧。早上好，尤先生。早上好。当法院工作人员找到你并询问你的名字时，你说，“尤赤斌”，你还有别的名字吗？你能说吗？这个先生名叫肯尤，是银行首次发现这种不当行为的人。那个银行解雇的人不仅在通过贷款时伪造文件，还从客户那里盗取了钱。这个人最终成为检察官办公室的明星证人。
Mr. You, I'd like to direct your attention to the aerial cheat case. Miss Chi was the borrower that you stole money from, right? Yes, sir. Isn't it true that you asked Miss Chi for a cash tip as well? No, I never asked her for a cash tip. I don't remember that part. Mr. You, you had a telephone conversation with Ariel Chi. Is that correct? Correct, sir. And at the time, you didn't know that Miss Chi was actually tape recording that conversation with the assistance of the district attorney's office, correct? Yes, sir. The DA's office was trying to get him to implicate the bank. This recording was brought into trial through our attorneys on cross-examination of Can You?
尤先生，我想引起您对空中作弊案的注意。卓小姐是您偷了钱的借款人，对吗？是的，先生。您不是也向卓小姐要现金小费了吗？不，我从未向她要求现金小费。我不记得有这一段。尤先生，您曾与卓小姐进行过一次电话交谈，对吗？是的，先生。那时，您不知道卓小姐实际上正在通过地方检察官办公室的协助来录音那次谈话，对吗？是的，先生。检察官办公室试图让他指控银行。这段录音是通过我们的律师在Can You的交叉质询中提供给庭审的。
Let's just get right into it. So only after closing, then I'm supposed to go and give you cash, right? Hi, to make things legal. You're not supposed to do that, but, hey, it's after the cold. I mean, everything else is totally not right, so, you know, I think it's another thing. I mean, I'm in a written rule that it's happening to every case that I say. No, it ends and you like, you'd show some appreciation. Does this refresh your recollection that you did ask her for a tip? Yeah. I noticed that he couldn't look at me. That's very telling. Yeah, he couldn't look at me, but I was like, I'm going to look at you. I was like, I'll burn you by. So I was looking at him intently as well, too. I dare you to say what you want to say. He got on the stand and perjured himself over and over and over again. In ways that a defense lawyer just doesn't get in a career more than once or twice, the jury laughed at him multiple times.
就让我们直入主题吧。所以只有在交易完成后，我才应该给你现金，对吗？嗨，为了合法性。虽然你不应该这样做，但，嘿，交易完成后就没问题了。我是说，其他事情都完全不对，所以，你知道，我认为这是另一回事了。我的意思是，根据文件规定，每个案例都发生这种情况。不，交易结束后，你会表达一些感激之情。这让你回忆起你曾经向她要过小费了吗？是的。我注意到他无法看着我。这非常明显。是的，他无法看着我，但我说我要看着你。我就像要点燃你一样。我也一直注视着他。我敢你说出你想说的话。他站在证人席上，一次又一次地作伪证。这种情况在辩护律师的职业生涯里很少发生，陪审团多次嘲笑他。
Because you tell me that advocate is on mute, right? You don't, we don't say it to the fact. It's just the individuals, the people who work for the fact. I'm an employee of the fact. And the salt is the odds on the writer. So then, okay, but like, advocates like the bank, they know that everybody's thing is made up, right? I will say that. Now you had a long pause there, didn't you, Mr. You? I was driving. So that long pause is because you were driving, you were distracted? That's your testimony? I cannot recall, but I was definitely driving. You'll say that if you get in trouble. Is that what you meant there? I say that because- That's a very, Mr. You, I'm asking you. It's a strange way to answer that question. And I'm asking you what you meant by- I will say that. I will say that. I believe that. Well, the jury can decide what your tone suggests. It became quite clear that he had no trouble lying. If that's how he's comfortable acting, I would have thought that he would be comfortable saying much more to try to directly link Mr. Tam and Mr. Wong and Joel Sung with what had happened, but even he didn't do that. But you also had to not let go of the fact that he didn't get this way overnight. He had years of this type of behavior that was just overlooked on numerous occasions. What role did the bank's management play in what had happened? How much they actually were not aware of what was happening versus turning a blind eye because things were going well and the results were good? Can you was clearly bad egg? By using can you, which is the worst, the worst, the DA's office is saying this is the face of the institution. If the bank was in such cahoots with this person, then why would we fire him? We would want to save him.
因为你告诉我倡导者是静音的，对吧？你不会，我们也不会说这个事实。只是个人，那些为这个事实工作的人。我是这个事实的员工。而你所指的盐是作家的赔率。所以，好吧，但是，比如说，银行这样的倡导者，他们知道所有人的事都是虚构的，对吗？我会说那个。你在那里停顿了很久，是吗，尤先生？我在开车。所以你停顿那么久是因为你在开车，你分心了？这是你的证词吗？我记不清了，但我肯定是在开车。你会这样说如果你遇到麻烦。这就是你刚才的意思吗？我的意思是因为-这很奇怪，尤先生，我问你的是这个。这是一个奇怪的方式回答那个问题。我问你的是你刚才的意思。我会说那个。我会说那个。我相信那个。嗯，陪审团可以决定你的语气暗示什么。很明显地他撒谎没有困难。如果这是他感到舒服的行为方式，我本以为他会更愿意直接将谭先生、黄先生和宋祖与发生的事情直接联系起来，但他甚至没有这样做。但你也不能忽视他并非一夜之间变成现在这样。多年来，这种行为一再被忽视。银行的管理层在发生的事情中扮演了什么角色？他们到底有多么不知道发生了什么，还是故意睁一只眼闭一只眼，因为事情进行得很顺利，结果很好？显然，卡纽确实是个坏蛋。通过使用卡纽，也就是最最坏的，检方正在说这是这个机构的面孔。如果银行与这个人合谋，那为什么我们会解雇他？我们应该要保护他。
What the DA accused Abiguss Bank of was ridiculous and really nothing considering what the big banks were doing. All the too big to fail banks, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase and Citicorp have admitted to massive crimes and they've been accused of even worse. Virtually every major financial company in big bank in this country and many of the foreign banks as well were engaged in a far-ranging fraud scheme whereby they were issuing huge numbers of home loans, particularly the middle and low income borrowers.
检察官对亚比古斯银行的指控太荒谬了，尤其考虑到那些大银行所做的事情。摩根士丹利、高盛、摩根大通和花旗集团等那些太大而不能倒的银行都承认犯下了大规模罪行，而且有人指控他们更糟糕的事情。实际上，包括我国的几乎所有大型金融公司以及许多外国银行都参与了一个广泛的欺诈计划，即他们大量发放房贷，尤其是给中低收入借款人。
Then they were repackaging those loans and selling them to investors but disguising them as high-rated securities. Those were an extremely dangerous toxic loans that were likely to blow up and did blow up and huge numbers after 2008. But there was this notion that we couldn't bring criminal action against them because the collateral consequences of an institution that was so large, so internationally connected that indicting them or bringing criminal charges against them could wreck the entire financial system. So you have these enormous offenders and they commit crimes. We'll just take money. We'll cut a check and make a call go away.
然后他们开始重新包装这些贷款，并将它们作为高评级证券出售给投资者，但通过伪装它们的方式。这些贷款是极其危险的毒性贷款，很可能在2008年后引发并确实引发了大规模的问题。但是有一种观念认为，我们不能对他们采取刑事诉讼，因为这样一个规模如此庞大、国际联系如此紧密的机构的惩罚性后果可能会毁掉整个金融系统。所以你有这些巨大的违法者，他们犯罪行为。我们只需拿钱出来，写张支票，消除一个电话的麻烦。
I think every American was upset at the prices that we went through. There was behavior that was less than ethical and I think Americans were upset that the security against which loans were made were often fictitious. And in abacus there was some truth to that too. It's clearly not a big, big bank. And clearly it was not representative of the entire financial community. But I think the principal was the same. It shows, I think, very graphically this difference in how we deal with a certain kind of offender versus everybody else.
我认为美国人对我们经历的价格感到不满。有一些行为是不符合伦理道德的，我认为美国人对贷款所依据的安全性常常是虚假的感到不满。在“阿尔巴克斯”（意指阿尔巴克斯家族拥有的小型银行，此处做代指）也存在这种情况的真实性。不过很明显，阿尔巴克斯家族并不是一家大的、大规模的银行。显然也不能代表整个金融界。但我认为根本的问题是相同的。它生动地展示了我们对某种违法者如何处理与对其他人处理的差异。
Mr. Sung was not offered the same deal. He wasn't offered a chance to just pay a fine. He wasn't offered a chance to plead guilty to some minor thing. He wasn't offered the chance even of deferred prosecution. He didn't get any of that offered to him. The DA told us, you had to accept a plea of guilty, a felony plus a fine. Now what is our choice? They wanted a conviction and Vance was going to go after him.
宋先生没有得到同样的待遇。他没有得到只交罚款的机会。他没有得到对一些轻微事情认罪的机会。他甚至没有得到缓起诉的机会。他没有被提供任何这方面的选择。检察官告诉我们，你必须接受有罪认罪、重罪和罚款。现在我们该怎么选择？他们想要定罪，并且Vance将会追捕他。
I think if you were going to pick a bank to pick on a family owned company wedged between a couple of noodle shops in Chinatowns about as easy a target as you could possibly pick. I think the characterizations that this was somehow a cultural bias on the office's part. Entirely misplaced and entirely wrong. We devoted an enormous amount of effort into protecting immigrant communities. I felt that our handling of the bank was consistent with how we would have handled the bank if we were investigating a bank that serviced the South American community or the Indian community. There was nothing different that we did or purposefully designed to treat this bank differently.
我觉得，如果你要挑选一家银行来针对，选择一个夹在唐人街的几家面馆之间的家族企业，那将是一个非常容易的目标。我认为对于办公室这种认为这是对文化的偏见的描述是完全错误的。我们付出了大量的努力来保护移民社区。我觉得我们对这家银行的处理方式与我们对待南美社区或印度社区的银行进行调查时是一致的。我们没有做出任何不同的处理，也没有故意设计以不同的方式对待这家银行。
It was important for prosecution to show how exactly loan managers knew what was happening. I think the most compelling piece of evidence they had was this seating chart of the Abacus loan department. The loan officers who had been indicted were scattered around the floor and somewhere in the middle was the loan office manager. This was all happening around Mr. Tam's desk. How would he not be aware of this type of behavior when this was going on on a routine daily basis? It's not so simplistic as they would like you to believe as a simple drawing as to where someone sat.
对起诉方来说，展示贷款经理们确切了解发生的情况非常重要。我认为他们最有说服力的证据是阿巴科斯贷款部门的座位表。被起诉的贷款官员们分散在楼层上，而贷款办公室经理则位于中间某处。所有这些都发生在谭先生的办公桌周围。在例行日常工作情况下，他怎么可能对这种行为毫不知情呢？事情并不像他们试图让你相信的那样简单，只是一个关于某人坐在哪里的简单图表而已。
But on top of that, they brought Ken Yu, who was a consummate liar and he speaks a different language than Mr. Tam. He conducts business outside of the bank. Actually, at one point they cross-examined Ken because Ken said, oh, the guy gave me cash. I was counting for him at my table. When the borrower came to testify, the borrower said, no, I met him in the lobby of the bank. We were able to show that the loan officers were taking steps to hide their misconduct from the underwriters and the more senior levels of the bank. They would stop talking when an underwriter would come to the floor. They would forward signatures to make sure the signatures would match up. When the underwriter looked at the file, everything would look normal.
而且，他们还引进了名叫肯·于的人，他是一个精于撒谎的人，而且他和谭先生讲的是不同的语言。他在银行之外开展业务。实际上，有一次他们对肯进行了盘问，因为肯说，哦，那个家伙给了我现金。我在我的桌子上给他数钱。但是贷款人作证时说，不，我是在银行大堂见到他的。我们能够证明贷款官员们正在采取措施来掩盖他们的不当行为，使银行的上级和更高级别的人员无法察觉。每当核保人员到场时，他们会停止交谈。他们会转交签名，以确保签名一致。当核保人员查看档案时，一切都会看起来正常。
You had loan originators that were going to make commissions by getting these loans through. Then you had people like Mr. Wong who had no incentive whatsoever financially to do this. So they did everything they could to hide their crimes from Mr. Wong because they knew he wasn't involved and that he would deny loans, which he did many times. He would deny people where income couldn't be verified or where it seemed like the income was out of line. There was one denial he did where it were fraudulent documents that he uncovered.
你有一些能通过发放这些贷款来获得佣金的贷款发起人。然后你有一些人，比如黄先生，他没有任何财务激励去做这件事。所以他们竭尽全力向黄先生隐藏他们的犯罪行为，因为他们知道他没有参与其中，并且知道他会拒绝贷款，而他确实多次这样做。他会拒绝那些收入无法核实或者收入看起来不合理的人。有一次他拒绝了一个案件，是因为他揭发了伪造的文件。
And his denial of loans cost the originators commission. I think the people who went to the bank and got the loan did not have the money to do that. I think that ultimately the unintended losers here were the borrowers in the community. We're actually contributing to the revival of the community. It is absolutely mind-boggling for him to say that.
他拒绝借款使得贷款发起人失去了佣金。我认为去银行贷款的人并没有足够的钱做那件事。我认为最终这里无意中失去的是社区中的借款人。我们实际上在为社区的复兴做出贡献。他居然说出这样的话，真是让人难以置信。
When the indictment came down, so I as an existential threat to his bank and rightly so because so many institutions failed just from having that indictment. We already went through a crisis in 2003 that almost closed down the bank. The FBI is looking for Carol Lim who ran the Cal Street branch of Abacus Federal Savings, word of the alleged scams and off panic waves among bank customers.
当起诉书出来的时候，我就成了他所在的银行的存在威胁，这是完全合理的，因为有很多机构仅仅因为这起起诉而倒闭了。我们已经经历过2003年的危机，那几乎让银行关门大吉。FBI正在寻找领导Abacus Federal Savings的卡罗尔·林，她负责运营Cal Street分行。有关涉嫌欺诈的消息在银行客户中引起了恐慌。
So in 2003, I happened to be doing a story in Chinatown. My photographer at the time said to me something going on up the block. Chaos in Chinatown as thousands of investors make a run on Abacus Federal Savings Bank demanding their money after hearing that a former bank manager was being investigated for embezzling a million dollars. When the rumors spread in the Asian community, the run for the dough was on. In that short period of time, people withdraw to some like 44 million dollars, putting us in a liquidity crisis. Associated Press reported that we have not seen this type of run since the 30s since the Depression.
在2003年，我碰巧在唐人街做一个报道。当时我的摄影师对我说，附近发生了一些事情。在阿巴克斯联邦储蓄银行，数千名投资者纷纷涌入，要求返还他们的钱，因为他们听说一名前银行经理正因涉嫌挪用百万美元而受到调查。当这个传闻在亚洲社区传播开来时，大家都开始奔走相告，希望取回自己的存款。在短短的时间内，人们一共提取了大约4400万美元，让我们陷入了流动性危机。据美联社报道，自从30年代大萧条以来，我们从未见过这样的情况。
You have to understand something about Thomas Sumner. To me, he's like Jimmy Stewart out of it. It's a wonderful life. He's the small town banker for the town of Chinatown. I went to the police department and asked and gave me a bullhorn. I went all the line and I said to them, I'm here. You're thinking of this place all wrong as if I had the money back on a safe. Well, your money's in Joe's house. That's right next to yours. And in the Kennedy House and Mrs. Mikelin's house and a hundred others. And I actually went out and shook hand with them. Feel my warm hand. I'm here. I'm the real person. After I did that, the run subsided. Relative calm in Chinatown in short contrast to Tuesday's mad rush on the Abacus Federal Savings Bank, the CEO of the Bank for Shoring Investors. They knew that everything was okay. The people came back. They came in and deposited money. They thank us. If I did not have that rapport with the people, then I would have been much more worried that the DA indicted the bank. And if verdict is guilty, there is the possibility that Abacus would not survive.
你必须了解一些关于托马斯·萨姆纳的事情。对我来说，他就像《美好人生》中的吉米·斯图尔特一样。他是唐人街的小镇银行家。我去了警察局，他们给了我一个扩音器。我沿着队伍走，对他们说：“我在这里。你们对这个地方的看法完全错了，好像我把钱都存进了一个保险箱里。”其实，你的钱在乔的房子里。就在你旁边。还有肯尼迪家和米克琳夫人的房子，以及其他一百个房子里。我还真的出去和他们握了手，感受一下我的温暖之手。我在这里。我是真正的人。我这样做之后，恢复了平静。相对于周二对华人联邦储蓄银行的疯狂冲击，唐人街的形势相对平静。银行首席执行官打消了投资者的担忧。他们知道一切都还好。人们回来了，他们存入了钱。他们感谢我们。如果我与人民没有那种关系，那我会更加担心检察官起诉银行。如果定罪，就有可能导致华人联邦储蓄银行无法生存。
I never supported him with a bank. I have to be honest. I told my husband, I said, banking is not good. I felt his troubles business. There are too many banks. You know, not everyone is successful and not everyone will really appreciate what happens, you know, if something wrong with the bank. When you have a false document, you enhance the ability of Fannie Mae to ask you to take back the loan. I really felt my girls should go to do something else that they like to do. I didn't want them to work at the bank, but they went in, you know, because they want to help their father. They have fiercely loyal to Tom. You agree that income and assets is a material fact that has to be accurately represented. So I had never until now found a motivation really to come work for the bank.
我从未用银行支持过他。说实话，我告诉了我的丈夫，我说银行不太好。我感受到了他的生意困境。银行太多了。你知道，不是每个人都会成功，也不是每个人都会真正欣赏发生的事情，你知道的，如果银行出了问题。当你有一个伪造的文件时，你增加了Fannie Mae要求你收回贷款的能力。我真的认为我的女儿应该去做她们喜欢做的事情。我不想让她们在银行工作，但她们进去了，你知道，因为她们想帮助她们的父亲。她们对汤姆忠诚得很。你同意收入和资产是必须准确代表的重要事实。所以直到现在，我从未找到过一个真正的动机来为银行工作。
And this year when the trial started, I just, I was having nightmares myself. I mean, Vera and I were sharing a room back at my parents house, Connecticut, and we were both waking each other up. And I realized I was like, I can't go on in my own career right now anymore. I was like, I have to help my family now. Because I think the law is that the doc represents a material fact. I'm saying that if it is truly material, listen to me. If it is truly material, the loan will go in default. Change initiation may not be full. I get really frustrated sometimes. This is probably a factor of being the youngest. But sometimes I just like, whatever I say, it's just not heard. You are not convincing. If that's the form that you choose to use, Papa, if that's the form, hold on, I have a question, Papa. I didn't say that. If that's the form that you choose to use to represent. If that is the form, that's not true. I just told you, there is harm. It's very difficult for my parents. There's nothing more for me to say.
今年审判开始时，我经历了噩梦。你知道的，我和维拉住在我父母在康涅狄格州的房子里，我们彼此吵醒对方。我意识到我不能再单打独斗地继续我的职业生涯了。我决定现在必须帮助我的家人。因为在我看来，法律规定文件代表了一个重要事实。我是在说，如果这个事实真的很重要，听我说。如果这个事实真的很重要，贷款将会违约。改变的启动可能不完全。有时候我真的很沮丧。这可能是我作为家里最小的一个因素。但有时候我说什么都不被听到。你说不服气。如果这是你选择使用的形式，爸爸，如果那是形式，等一下，我有个问题，爸爸。我没有说那个。如果那是你选择用来代表的形式。如果那是形式，那不是真的。我刚刚告诉过你，那是有害的。对我父母来说很困难。我已经没有更多可说的了。
This is my office, sorry. As you can see at my desk is now piled extremely high. But I think it's always been a mess. That's just my personality. My father has always said, as an attorney, you should be neat and organized. Maybe I'm just not cut out to be an attorney.
这是我的办公室，很抱歉。如你所见，我的办公桌已经堆得非常高了。但我认为它一直都很乱。 这只是我的个性而已。我父亲一直说，作为一名律师，你应该整洁有序。也许我只是不适合当律师。
Tracy, on your desk, anything urgent that I need to get done before the weekend? We haven't been having many closings because of the effect of the trial. I've been waking about five in the morning, getting work done, banging out all these emails, and then go to court. Did you ever tell the person that you spoke to at Abbakah's bank that you were a manager at Becky's nail spa? I was not a manager. The person told me that my income was very low, so it's better I have to be a manager, otherwise I can't get the loan.
Tracy，在你的桌子上有什么紧急的事情需要在周末之前完成吗？由于审判的影响，我们的交易不太多。我一直都是在早上五点醒来，做完工作，处理一堆邮件，然后去法庭。你有告诉过你在Abbakah银行谈话的那个人，你是Becky的美甲店的经理吗？我并不是经理。那个人告诉我我的收入很低，所以最好成为一名经理，否则我就无法获得贷款。
The prosecution over and over tried to suggest that the borrowers were innocent, that it was the loan officers who were inducing the borrowers to falsify documents to qualify their loans. On this loan file, why does it say you're a manager? I don't know. Did you tell anyone that you were a manager? Nope. But we were able to show with witness after witness that it was not just the loan officers. Barbers were trying to fool the bank in order to put through loans.
检方一再试图暗示借款人是无辜的，是贷款人员诱使借款人伪造文件以符合贷款要求。在这个贷款档案中，为什么写着你是经理？我不知道。你告诉过任何人你是经理吗？没有。但我们能够通过证人证明不仅仅是贷款人员，理发师也在试图愚弄银行以获得贷款。
Mr. Len, you had your employer sign the verification of employment form for the loan file. Is that correct? Yes. And he signed as the co-owner of the China sign. Did anybody co-own the restaurant with Mr. Pan? I don't really know. You don't know if Xu Ken Len was also a co-owner of the China Sun restaurant? I only meet this person a few times. I don't know if this person is a co-owner of the restaurant or not. Xu Ken Len, you only met a few times and you don't know if she's a co-owner? They didn't tell me. I didn't ask. Okay. Xu Ken Len spelled S-H-U-Q-I-N-L-I-N. You don't know who that is? I know who that is. You do know who that is. So who is that? You can say she's like a sister. Is she like a sister or is she your sister? She's my sister.
Mr. Len，你让你的雇主在贷款档案的雇佣验证表上签字了，是吗？是的。而且他签字时作为中国太阳餐厅的联合所有人。那么，有人和潘先生一起拥有这家餐厅吗？我不是很清楚。你不知道许肯伦也是中国太阳餐厅的联合所有人吗？我只见过这个人几次，我不知道她是不是餐厅的联合所有人。许肯伦，你也只见过几次，而且你不知道她是否是联合所有人？他们没告诉我。我也没问。好的。许肯伦的拼写是 S-H-U-Q-I-N-L-I-N。你不知道她是谁吗？我知道她是谁。你确实知道她是谁。那她是谁？你可以说她像一个姐姐。她是像姐姐，还是你的真正姐姐？她是我姐姐。
There was a string of witnesses who were just abject liars to the point where it became a concern of ours that the jury's going to think that everyone that the bank deals with, former employees and customers are just full of s***. So the trial's been going on for the ninth weeks now, right? Is it mine? Day 52. Yeah. It's around David and Kathy do. I've been keeping track of the number of days since the jury was, yes, since January 12th. I just cannot believe how this thing could be tracked out so long. Every week's in trial and the expenses involved, the millions of dollars that spent to defend yourself and witness after witness, of course they will know they are lying. So you bring these people out day after day for nine weeks. What is the effect on the community? People get the wrong impression that Chinese are not law abiding. That's just too bad. We can, hopefully, win this case and make a statement.
有一系列的证人，他们纯粹是彻头彻尾的骗子，以至于我们开始担心陪审团会认为银行所接触的每个人，包括前雇员和客户都是一帮胡说八道的人。所以案子已经进行了九个星期了，没错吧？是我出庭了吧？第52天了。没错。大约是戴维和凯茜的时间。我一直在记录自从陪审团成立以来的日子，是的，一直从1月12日开始。我简直无法相信这个案子能拖这么久。每个星期都在开庭，所涉及的费用，数以百万计的钱花在为自己辩护的费用和证人身上，当然他们知道他们在撒谎。所以你们每天把这些人带出来九个星期，对社区有什么影响呢？人们会对中国人产生错误的印象，认为他们不守法。真是太不幸了。我们希望能赢得这个案件并表明立场。
Well even if you win the case, the damage, the strength on the community is done. Chinese immigrants come from a culture in which so many financial transactions are based on trust and trust that's not underwritten by a piece of paper. On trust that's an intimate understanding, you know, between members of a community or between family members. I don't think any of the borrowers think that they are really committing a crime even if some of these loan documents are falsified. One particular individual had been approved for an $800,000 mortgage loan but on the tax return they were earning only $24,000 a year. I think this was as a couple. There were a lot of guests across the jury panel. How does this even happen? Tax evasion I think lurks in the background of this case. Because they work primarily in a cash economy, a lot of the borrowers had money that they did not report to the IRS. Only when they're purchasing a house did it become necessary for them to prove how much money they had but then they were trapped in this position of not having the paper trail. Maybe folks in that community don't pay 100% of their taxes. These are issues that if they have a problem with any immigrant community that operates in cash, okay, they have the wherewithal to do something about that. The IRS does too. Advocacy isn't the FBI. There's no bank regulations that require the bank to basically serve as a police force against its own customers. There'd be chaos if your bank basically was an IRS. No one would want a bank with any bank.
即使你赢得了案件，对社区造成的伤害和影响已经产生了。中国移民来自一个许多金融交易基于信任而非纸质担保的文化背景。这种信任是建立在社区成员或家庭成员之间的亲密理解基础上的。我不认为任何借款人认为他们真的在犯罪，即使有些贷款文件是伪造的。有一个特定的个体被批准获得了80万美元的抵押贷款，但在纳税申报上，他们每年只有2.4万美元的收入。我想这可能是一对夫妇。陪审团成员听到后都感到吃惊。这个情况怎么出现的？我认为这个案件中隐含了逃税行为。因为他们主要在现金经济中工作，许多借款人有未向国税局报告的收入。只有在购买房屋时，他们才需要证明自己有多少钱，但又陷入了没有纸质记录的困境。也许这个社区的人并没有全额缴纳税款。如果他们对任何以现金方式运作的移民社区都存在问题，那么他们有能力采取行动解决这些问题。国税局也有这样的能力。维权工作并不是联邦调查局的职责。银行法规并没有要求银行对其自己的客户充当警察。如果你的银行实际上成为了国税局，那将会引发混乱。没有人会想要这样一家银行。
You can say that our responsibility was to provide credit to the community, not to be a policeman. And I remember Mr. Sung said this to me, the guy comes to him to modernize his restaurant and he said, I don't even need to ask him his income because I eat at that restaurant and I see how full it is. So you know when he comes in and asks me for a loan, I'm ready to give him the money. That's the kind of thing a community bank can do and in the Chinese community, that's what they were doing. They knew their community, they were making these loans.
我们的责任是为社区提供信贷，而不是扮演警察的角色。我记得宋先生曾对我说过，有一个人来找他，希望他投资现代化餐馆，他说，我甚至不需要问他的收入，因为我经常在那个餐馆吃饭，我可以看得到它有多火。所以，当他来找我借钱时，我准备好给他钱。这就是社区银行可以做到的事情，在华人社区里，这就是他们一直在做的。他们了解自己的社区，他们会给这些人贷款。
The prosecution had insisted since the beginning of the trial that many of the documents that were part of the mortgage package were fraudulent and that included in many cases gift letters, gift letters written by relatives or friends. There was knowledge throughout the loan department that what was being put forward as unencumbered gifts were in fact loans and the source of those loans, money that came from who knows where. In Chinese culture, the line between a gift and a loan is very blurry. To the extent where there isn't even really a distinction when it's coming from your parents or your relatives. This is what immigrants have always done. Jewish families did it, Irish families did it, Italian families did it, Chinese families do it. If I receive you know $50,000 from my mother, there isn't a paper document that says I must return that sum. But you know if I end up caring for her in her old age, that's a form of payment.
起诉方自审判开始就坚称，抵押贷款文件中的许多文件都是伪造的，其中包括在许多情况下是亲戚或朋友写的礼物信。贷款部门内部都知道被称为无担保礼物的东西实际上是贷款，并且这些贷款的来源不可考。在中国文化中，礼物和贷款之间的界限非常模糊。特别是当来自父母或亲戚时，甚至几乎没有区别。这是移民历来都在做的事情。犹太家庭做过，爱尔兰家庭做过，意大利家庭做过，中国家庭也做过。如果我从我的母亲那里收到5万美元，没有一份文件说我必须偿还这笔款项。但你知道，如果我最终在她年老时照顾她，那就是一种支付方式。
And I remember sitting in the courtroom, hearing how perplexed they were when they were answering this question when you know repeatedly they were being badgered. You know, is this a gift or is this a loan? Can you clarify? They said well you know if I can't pay it back, I will but you know if I can't, we're a family. So gift letters actually had to be from a relative or spouse. But it came to surface that these loan officers sometimes were listed as the gift donors. These two you at the top of this gift letter certification, it reads that you are making a gift of $9,000 to your cousin, Chizen Chen. Is Chizen Chen your cousin? No. Did you make a gift of $9,000 to Chizen Chen? He gave me $9,000 cash and we went downstairs and got the certified bank check in his name. Tell us how it came to be that Chizen Chen gave you $9,000 and then you gave him a check. This particular customer did not have any credit scores. Can you tell us from this document who approved this loan? That would be Ms. Ware's song. If Ken Yu is signing a gift letter, Ken Yu, that would be disturbing. That's not what happened. The Chinese name Kim is not known, but people just call him Ken. Ken Yu clearly knew that and purposely put his Chinese name on that check for that reason to obfuscate that it was him who had given quote gift to the borrower.
我记得坐在法庭上，听到他们回答这个问题时的困惑，因为他们一直受到了指责。你知道，这是礼物还是贷款？你能澄清一下吗？他们说，如果我还不起，那就当做礼物，因为我们是一家人。所以礼物信必须来自亲戚或配偶。但事实证明，这些贷款官员有时被列为礼物捐赠者。在这份礼物信认证的顶部，写着你向你的表弟陈志真赠送了9000美元的礼物。陈志真是你表弟吗？不是的。你赠送了9000美元给陈志真吗？他给了我9000美元现金，然后我们一起下楼去开了一张以他名字为受票人的银行支票。告诉我们陈志真是怎么给你9000美元然后你给了他一张支票。这位客户没有任何信用评分，请问你能从这份文件中告诉我们是谁批准了这笔贷款吗？那应该是韦尔宋女士。如果肯尼斯签署了一份礼物信，肯尼斯，那应该让人担心。事情不是这样的。这个中国名字Kim并不为人所知，但人们只是叫他肯恩。肯恩清楚地知道这一点，并故意在那张支票上写上他的中文名字，以掩盖他是给借款人赠送了礼物的事实。
Mr. Yu, what is the commitment letter? That the bank agrees to give this borrower a loan if all the conditions were met. Right. And gift letters, for example, have to be in the file before you close. But not before the commitment letter goes out, isn't that right? You're right, sir. So the verification of employment that you helped fake, the gift letters that you helped fake were done after Vera's song, approved this loan on behalf of the board of directors. Isn't that right? In this case, yes.
喻先生，承诺函是什么意思？就是银行同意在满足所有条件的情况下给予借款人贷款。对，比如说赠款函必须在贷款封闭之前放在文件里。但是在发出承诺函之前是不需要的，对吗？您说得对，先生。所以您帮忙伪造的雇佣验证和赠款函都是在魏拉.宋以代表董事会批准这笔贷款之后完成的，对吗？在这个案例中，是的。
It's trying for us because it's our father's legacy. Exactly. And he's passed that legacy on to us. And Vera was, when she was one, she wants to be very mean to me. She'll point out, it happened under your watch, right? So she's going to be very mean to me. No. I'm not. It appears both do you know they're fairly mean? fingers. All right. That's a shit. So much time has gone by. Our father was 75 and now he's 80. People don't understand there's some long-term effects from going through such a traumatic experience.
对我们来说很艰难，因为这是我们父亲的遗产。确实如此。而他把这份遗产传给了我们。而维拉在她一岁的时候，她对我非常刻薄。她会指出，这是在你的掌管下发生的，对吧？所以她对我非常刻薄。不，我不会的。看起来你们两个都比较刻薄。好吧，真是糟糕。时间过得太快了。我们父亲当时75岁，现在已经80岁了。人们不了解经历如此创伤性经历后会有一些长期影响。
This bank will surely continue to seek vindication, not simply for the ultimate acquittal of the bank itself, but for the larger Chinese immigrant community that it has served for 31 years. The raw display of power by the DA will always remind this and other minority communities that our human rights can easily be trampled upon. It's a little bit counterintuitive, the way you write it, you want to tell people that you cannot allow something bad to go on. And so you're saying human rights can easily be trampled upon it and I don't read it, I don't want people think you're saying that it can be. In other words, it should be a normative sentence, it should not be trampled upon.
这家银行肯定会继续追求公正，不仅仅是为了自身的最终无罪，更是为了为服务了31年的中国移民社区争取正义。地方法官对该银行进行的强力展示时刻提醒着我们这个和其他少数族群，我们的人权很容易被践踏。这有点违反直觉，你的写法，你想告诉人们不能允许坏事发生。因此你在说人权很容易被践踏，我并不这样理解，我不希望人们认为你是在说人权可以被践踏。换句话说，应该是一个规范性的句子，不应该容许被践踏。
The cost has been great, but it's very different per each member of the family because we all handle stress in a very different way. In each, Chantrell, this is all in here, but he changed my words again and then he didn't put it in properly in here. It would be dry. Because that's the chicken. No mayo, that's why, right? But there's cheese. My father especially is able to handle stress in an incredible way. If you don't like your sandwich, are you okay? Fine, huh? He said it's dry. Yes, he's got an older, I think he feels that he's done what he's wanted to do. He's a little more philosophical and to know that he's done the best that he can do is good for him. If it's too much chicken, you don't have to eat all of it. No. He said it's dry. He complained he said it's dry. They put avocado. They put avocado. But he says it's dry. I don't know, are you? He says it's dry, but I'm easy. This is how he is. He's very calm and I'm like a jumping bean, so I'm always running around. That's how I am and drives me nuts.
成本很高，但每个家庭成员的情况都非常不同，因为我们每个人处理压力的方式都不同。在每个人身上，钱特雷尔，这一切都在这里，但他又改变了我的话，然后没有正确地放进来。那会很乾燥。因为那是鸡肉。没有蛋黄酱，这就是为什么，对吗？但是有奶酪。我父亲尤其能够以难以置信的方式处理压力。如果你不喜欢你的三明治，你还好吗？好吧，对吗？他说很干。是的，他年纪大了，我想他觉得他已经完成了他想做的事情。他有点更加哲学，知道他已经尽了自己最大的努力对他来说是好事。如果鸡肉太多了，你不必全部都吃完。不。他说很干。他抱怨说很干。他们放了鳄梨。他们放了鳄梨。但是他说很干。我不知道，你呢？他说很干，但我很随和。这就是他的样子。他非常冷静，而我就像个跳跃的豆子，所以我总是在四处奔跑。这就是我，这让我疯了。
My mother, I think, probably feels things the strongest. She's a very emotional person and I think defines herself to a large degree by the perceptions that others have. So it hurts her. I felt I lost my face. You know, Chinese always wanted to save their face. I was embarrassed to even see my friends because nobody knows. I really don't know too much about the banking and how I'm going to explain everything. What I can say is we did not do it. I just couldn't stand people thinking of my children too bad, you know. The prosecutor is saying that Jill lied. So that really bothered me. I felt like screaming. Of course, Vera always tells me, don't talk, don't move. So I had to sit there and just suppress myself, you know. That's why I couldn't even eat lunch yesterday. I had a stomach ache.
我母亲，我认为，可能是最容易感受到情绪的人。她是一个非常感性的人，我认为她在很大程度上通过别人的看法来定义自己。所以这伤害了她。我感觉自己丢了面子。你知道，中国人总是要面子。我甚至都不好意思见我的朋友，因为没有人知道。我真的不太了解银行业务，也不知道该如何解释一切。我只能说我们没有做过。我只是无法忍受别人对我的孩子持有不好的看法。检察官说吉尔撒谎了。所以这真的让我烦恼。我感觉自己想大声喊叫。当然，维拉总是告诉我，不要说话，不要动。所以我只能坐在那里抑制自己，你知道。这就是为什么我昨天甚至都没法吃午饭。我胃痛。
Ms. Roman is the federal national mortgage association, otherwise known as Fannie Mae, in the business to make money. Fannie Mae is in the business of providing home ownership. And as a result of that, Fannie Mae does make money. Yes. This whole case ultimately came down to Fannie Mae. Fannie Mae was the alleged victim in the case. The prosecution's premise was that the 30 loans that were in the indictment that we had sold to Fannie Mae were not good, because the documentation themselves were not what they were supposed to be. The bank can do whatever it wants. The bank could keep those loans, it could service those loans, and care not a wit about the documentation. That was the bank's choice. Keep them or sell them. It chose to sell them. In selling the loans to Fannie Mae, they simply passed the risk off to unknowing purchasers.
罗曼女士是联邦国家抵押贷款协会，即通常称为房利美（Fannie Mae），其经营目的是赚钱。房利美致力于为人们提供住房所有权。因此，房利美确实会获利。没错。整个案件最终关键在于房利美。房利美是案件中所谓的受害者。公诉方的前提是，在起诉中涉及的30笔贷款，我们卖给房利美的，不好，因为这些文件本身不符合规定。银行可以做任何它想做的事情。银行可以继续保留这些贷款，可以为这些贷款提供服务，对于文件不予理会。这是银行的选择。保留它们或出售它们。它选择了出售。通过将这些贷款卖给房利美，它们只是把风险转嫁给了毫不知情的购买者。
Ms. Roman, Fannie Mae doesn't want to lose money, does it? Absolutely not. And it doesn't want our lenders to lose money either. And you are familiar with the default rate of abacus loans during the indictment period, correct? Yes, I am. During the five-year period of the alleged fraud, abacus sold a little over 3,000 mortgages to Fannie Mae. The number of defaults of those 3,000 totaled nine. Nine. Would you say that that was a low default rate? The default rate is low. Would you say it's microscopically low? Objection to the characterization. Sustained as to the word microscopic. Abacus Federal Savings Bank had one of the nation's lowest default rates, not the highest, one of the lowest. But that's not what we're looking at. We're looking at, you know, was there, you know, falsified information, and was it sold? And it was. These loans had not lost any money, they're performing. It was clear financially who was benefiting was Fannie Mae from their transaction. People got their loans, they got their houses. It was almost ridiculous. It was almost literally ridiculous.
罗曼女士，奋利梅(Fannie Mae) 不想亏钱，对吗？绝对不希望。它也不希望我们的借款人亏钱。您熟悉起诉期间Abacus贷款的违约率，对吗？是的，我熟悉。在涉嫌欺诈的五年期间，Abacus向奋利梅出售了略多于3,000笔抵押贷款。这些3,000笔贷款中，违约数总共为九笔。九笔。您会说这是一个低违约率吗？违约率是低的。您会说它是微乎其微的低吗？对对方对“微乎其微”一词的描述提出异议。针对“微乎其微”这个词，异议受理。Abacus联邦储蓄银行的违约率是全国最低之一，而不是最高，是最低之一。但这不是我们关注的重点。我们关注的是，是否有虚假信息，是否被出售？确实是如此。这些贷款没有造成任何损失，它们都是正常偿还的。从财务上来看，从这次交易中获益的是奋利梅。人们获得了贷款，他们获得了房子。这几乎是荒谬的。几乎可以说是真正荒谬的。
Larson is about stealing to bring Larson charges against the bank when the supposed victim actually made hundreds of millions of dollars. It's just, it's outrageous. My view is if I take $5 out of your wallet, I've taken your money. If I ultimately, if I give that back to you, or if you don't, at the very end, actually have any loss because the money gets back to you, that's still, in our view, a larceny. If I sold Fannie Mae alone for $5, not only did they get their $5 back on time as what they thought they were going to get it, they also got $3, $4, $5 back in interest, which makes it $10, so tell me how that is considered a larceny.
Larson试图把Larson控告银行，指控他们窃取，而实际上所谓的受害人赚了数亿美元。这太荒谬了。我认为，如果我从你的钱包里拿走5美元，那就是我拿走了你的钱。即使我最终把它还给你，或者你最终并没有因为钱回到你手上而遭受任何损失，这在我们看来仍然是一种盗窃行为。如果我只把房利美公司卖了5美元，他们不仅按时收到了他们原本期望得到的5美元，而且还额外获得了3、4、5美元的利息，总计为10美元，那你告诉我这怎么会被视为盗窃呢？
There are two types of mortgage fraud that generally occur. We call them fraud for profit and fraud for home. There are a certain number of people who commit the crime of mortgage fraud because they lie on their application to get a loan for the home that they want to live in. Is it technically a crime? Absolutely. Is it a crime that is worth the resources of a state or federal government? Absolutely not. These are low default rates on these types of loans. The losses are relatively minor. The other types of fraud. Fraud where there really was never any intention to pay the mortgage. It was just about reaping profit as quickly as possible. Or fraud that went into these complex securities that were built. When the knowledge that there was little to no chance that these loans are going to get repaid, that's where the resources need to go. And throwing your hands up in the air and suggesting that, well, gee, any time a crime is committed, we put all of our resources in to prove it. It's just not true. Today, walking over to my office, the light was red. And I confess, I walked across the street against the red light. I am absolutely guilty of jaywalking and I could have gotten a ticket. Did I get one? No. He would have been a complete waste of the NYPD's resources to issue me a ticket and divert them of the real crime that's going on in the city. And regulators and prosecutors have to act with the necessary discretion of when to bring charges and when not to bring charges.
通常会发生两种类型的抵押贷款欺诈。我们称之为以盈利为目的的欺诈和以购房为目的的欺诈。有一定数量的人犯有抵押贷款欺诈的罪行，他们在申请贷款时撒谎，以获得自己想要居住的房屋。这从技术上说是犯罪吗？绝对是。这是一个值得州政府或联邦政府投入资源的犯罪吗？绝对不是。这些贷款的违约率很低。损失相对较小。另一种类型的欺诈是指根本没有意愿偿还抵押贷款的欺诈。这只是为了尽快获利。或者涉及构建的复杂证券的欺诈。当知道几乎没有机会偿还这些贷款时，资源必须用于这方面。如果我们放弃并暗示，哎呀，每次犯罪都要投入所有资源来证明这一点。这是不真实的。今天，在走去办公室的路上，红灯亮了。我承认，我闯红灯过马路。我绝对有违规行为，并且可能被罚款。我被罚款了吗？没有。罚款我纯粹是浪费纽约警察局的资源，让他们分散注意力去处理城市中真正的犯罪。监管机构和检察官必须根据必要的谨慎来决定何时提出指控，何时不提出指控。
The appeal is certainly entitled to his opinion. I disagree with the characterization that this was jaywalking because I think it was systemic in over a long term. And ultimately, the risk was passed without notice to third parties. What would it be to be a regulatory punishment for that type of behavior, that a question? But who are the taxpayers that got hurt? Who are the investors that got hurt? Who are the individuals that lost their homes? Who are the people that got tricked into mortgages they couldn't afford and got thrown out on the street? Who lost their life savings? What financial system collapsed? What GDP took a hit because of the actions that Abacus did? And as far as I can tell, none. Frankly, if every bank had had underwritten as well as Abacus during the indictment period, we wouldn't have had a financial crisis.
上诉人当然有权发表自己的观点。我不同意这是违规横穿马路的说法，因为我认为这是一个长期制度性问题。最终，这种风险没有被第三方注意到。对于这种行为，是否应当进行监管处罚，这是一个问题。但是，谁是那些受到伤害的纳税人？谁是那些受到伤害的投资者？谁是那些失去住房的个人？谁是那些被骗去贷款无法承担而被赶出街头的人？谁失去了他们的生活积蓄？有哪些金融系统崩溃了？哪个国内生产总值由于Abacus的行为受到了冲击？据我所知，没有。坦率地说，如果在起诉期间每家银行都像Abacus一样审慎承销，我们就不会有金融危机。
We really need to talk about one issue right now, which is whether or not we should have Jill testify. It's really difficult. Like we keep switching back and forth. As of yesterday, Rusty believed that she should testify. Kevin took a different position. He was a little bit more hesitant. And Papa feels so far that Jill should testify. Actually, Rusty and Papa have the same opinion. No. Yeah, but I don't want it to pressure her to testify. And Rusty's view was that the jury always wondering why the USO innocent, why would you not testify? Right. A jury might not feel much towards a corporate institution. If you put a personal face to it, such as Jill, they'll begin to see and realize that the consequences of conviction are serious. However, nothing has been truly said of Jill to implicate her in anything. Right. I feel like I have yet to hear a reason to put Jill on. In fact, if you don't put her on, it's not because you're trying to hide anything, but because there's nothing to defend. Excuse me, excuse me, so the line is avoiding the law. Yes, yes, the law there is speaking. They still have no opinion of how. That's a very good question.
我们现在真的需要讨论一个问题，即是否应该让吉尔作证。这很困难。我们一直在摇摆不定。到昨天为止，拉斯蒂认为她应该作证。凯文持有不同的立场，他有些犹豫。而爸爸迄今为止认为吉尔应该作证。实际上，拉斯蒂和爸爸的意见是一样的。不，没错，但我不想迫使她作证。拉斯蒂的观点是陪审团会一直想知道为什么美国宇航局无罪，为什么不作证？对于公司这样的组织，陪审团可能没有太多感情。但如果你把吉尔这样的个人加入进去，他们会开始看到并意识到定罪的后果是严重的。然而，至今为止没有任何证据说明吉尔有任何牵连。没错，我觉得我还没有听到让吉尔作证的理由。实际上，如果不让她作证，不是因为你试图隐瞒什么，而是因为没有什么需要辩护的。对不起，对不起，所以问题是回避法律。是的，是的，法律在这里说话。他们对如何作证还没有看法。这是一个非常好的问题。
She's not here right now. She didn't even want to have this conversation. The feeling that we got from her was that if she needs to testify, she will. But she would feel terrible. If she somehow she didn't testify well, and that would result in a negative outcome. Yeah, and she would blame herself. I just wanted to pop because I know you feel strongly about Jill testifying and I had felt the same way. I actually am not so wrong in the strongly shifting off. I changed your mind. Yeah. So how would we feel if Jill didn't take the stand and we do not win the case? Would we have regrets? I can't answer that. I have given the matter a careful and thorough analysis if the outcome is not for me. I do not, I should not feel regretful.
她现在不在这儿。她甚至不想进行这次对话。我们从她身上感觉到，如果她需要作证，她会这样做。但是她会感到很糟糕。如果她出庭作证不好，那将导致不利的结果。是的，她会责怪自己。我只是想和你谈谈，因为我知道你对吉尔作证有强烈的感觉，而我也有相同的感觉。实际上，我在强烈地改变你的想法。是的。那么如果吉尔不起诉，我们又输了这个案子，我们会有遗憾吗？我无法回答这个问题。我已经仔细全面地分析了这个问题，如果结果对我来说不好，我不应该感到后悔。
They have said that these kinds of documents are so obviously false that Mr. Tam and Mr. Wong and the banks on their underwriters should have caught that. And the fact that they didn't catch them suggested that they were involved in the fraud. That's what they are telling you ladies and gentlemen. But here's the problem. Fannie Mae, the best underwriters in the country. All they do, all day, every day is look at loan files from all over the country. They are the gold standard and they didn't see anything wrong with these documents. So if the best there is doesn't see anything wrong, how can that be criminal? It's not. And here I'm going to show you again Fannie Mae's email from 2012. We recognize that you have very unique needs that are closely linked to the borrowers you serve. While doing anything customized in this environment is very difficult, the team is committed to doing whatever we can to develop solutions that meet the needs of your culturally unique clientele.
他们已经表示，这些文件如此明显地是假的，以至于Tam先生、Wong先生和他们的承销行银行应该察觉出来。而他们没有察觉到这一点，表明他们参与了欺诈行为。这就是他们告诉诸位女士们先生们的事实。但问题在于，房利美是全国最好的承销行。他们整天整天地查看来自全国各地的贷款文件。他们是黄金标准，却没有发现任何问题。那么如果最好的人不发现任何问题，那怎么可能是犯罪行为呢？不可能。现在我将再次向诸位展示房利美2012年的电子邮件。我们认识到您有与您服务的借款人密切相关的非常独特的需求。在这种情况下，做任何定制化的事情都非常困难，但团队致力于尽我们所能开发满足您文化独特客户需求的解决方案。
Ladies and gentlemen, Fannie Mae itself is conceding here that this is Chinatown. It's thousand small businesses, first generation, special needs, and the bank serves that community. Does that pose challenges to the bank? Absolutely. It would be a lot easier to deal with a bunch of investment bankers who have W2s and tax returns all the time. That would be easier. But the bank has chosen to serve this community, challenges and all. Advocacy's own narrative that they are trying to give you is that they are trying to assist hardworking, first generation immigrants live the American dream as a community service. That's admirable. And it's great. An abacus Federal Savings Bank is free to do that and then hold the risk on their own books.
尊敬的女士们先生们，房利美自己都承认这是唐人街。这里有成千上万的小企业，第一代移民和特殊需求人群，银行为这个社区提供服务。这对银行来说是否带来了挑战？当然。如果能与一群随时准备好提供个人所得税和报税表的投资银行家打交道，那会容易得多。但银行选择为这个社区提供服务，接受挑战。他们自己倡导的理念是，他们试图通过社区服务来帮助辛勤工作的第一代移民实现美国梦。这是令人钦佩的，也是很好的。而安联联邦储蓄银行可以自由地这样做，并自行承担风险。
What they are not free to do is take risks with other people's money and not tell them. They cannot take those risks and pass it off to somebody else without telling the truth. She tried to say that these loans seem to be representative of our entire loan portfolio, which is not true. She literally rolled her eyes at your mission and billing this bank for the community to serve the community and tell these people to serve the American dream. She just cast it aside. That's a blessing. Did you observe in the beginning that the honorable San Dans himself attended the beginning? I have seen him on TV. He's much smaller in person. As a family, we've always been very close. But we've unified even more during this time, which is great. Why are you laughing? She was just in tears and now she's bursting out laughing. The way he said he has to save his voice from the jury charge because that's going to be a few hours. Are you not human, you're right? Are you on the diet?
他们不允许用他人的钱去冒险，并且隐瞒不告诉他们。他们不能将这些风险转嫁给别人却不说实话。她试图说这些贷款似乎代表了我们整个贷款组合，这是不真实的。她对你们的使命和这家银行为社区服务并在社区中背书的行为，简直不屑一顾。这是一种祝福。你有没有注意到圣丹斯先生自己也参加了一开始的活动？我在电视上见过他，但见到他本人觉得他小巧多了。作为一个家庭，我们一直非常亲近。但在这段时间里，我们更加团结，这很好。你为什么笑？她刚才还在流泪，现在又突然爆笑起来。他说他得保护声音不被陪审团的指责耗尽，因为那会持续几个小时。你不是人类吗？你在节食吗？
No. Jurors, your responsibility in this case is extremely important. However, it is limited to this case. You have not been asked to make some general assessment of corporate governance in America or whether banks are good or not. You are not here to send a message to anyone. You're here to determine whether the people have proven, be on a reasonable doubt that the defendants here on trial are guilty of one or more of the crimes, charged in this case. If they were going to vindicate all of us, we would hope that it happened quickly. You know what I mean? They'd be like, oh, we heard this evidence, it's not worth it. Just vindicate everybody. This is a really nerve-wracking time. Not knowing what the jury is going to decide and wondering how come they didn't come back already. At this point now, I think it's really bothering me. It's like, why can't they see what seemed so apparent in the trial? I think it's really important to have a lot of work. I hate waiting in court. It's boring and annoying. I'd rather be doing work. But our lawyers want us to be here in court. Kids of jury have questions. They want the jury to see we're still here and we can help pick out the documents.
陪审团，你们在这个案件中的责任非常重要。然而，它仅限于此案。你们并没有被要求对美国的公司治理进行一般评估，也没有要求你们评判银行是否好。你们在这里并不是为了向任何人传递信息。你们在这里是为了确定被告方是否已经被证明以合理的怀疑之外犯下了本案中的一个或多个罪行。如果他们要为我们伸冤，我们希望这能迅速发生。你知道我的意思吗？他们会说，哦，我们听到了这些证据，不值得了。就为大家伸冤。这真是一段令人紧张不安的时光。不知道陪审团会作出什么决定，想知道为什么他们还没有回来。现在这个点，我觉得真的很困扰。就像，为什么他们看不到在审判中似乎如此明显的事实呢？我觉得有很多工作是非常重要的。我讨厌在法庭上等待。这既无聊又烦人。我宁愿做工作。但是我们的律师希望我们在法庭上出现。陪审团的孩子们有问题。他们希望陪审团能看到我们还在这里，我们可以帮助挑选文件。
Day after day, the jury did not come back. And in fact, the jury was asking for various documents, some unfavorable for that prosecution, some unfavorable for the defense. The first note came back and they said they wanted the list of the loans that the DA's office was claiming were bad. And then they wanted all the loan files for those loans. And then they wanted all the denial files. I got to the point when we were actually trying to analyze the handwriting on the notes.
一天又一天，陪审团迟迟没有返回。事实上，陪审团正在要求提交各种文件，一些可能对控方不利，一些可能对辩护方不利。陪审团先是要求提供控方声称不良的贷款清单，接着要求提供这些贷款的所有文件，然后又要求提供所有被拒绝的文件。我们甚至要开始分析笔迹来理解这些笔记的含义。
I think it's impossible that we're from Tia or the Holocaust. Is it impossible? We're driving ourselves mad trying to speculate, oh, this person must be thinking this and maybe they're thinking quite the opposite.
我认为我们来自Tia或大屠杀的可能性是不可能的。这是不可能的吗？我们纷纷陷入猜测中而折磨自己，想着这个人可能在想什么，也许他们在想完全相反的事情。
There was three different occasions where we were a hung jury. Everyone felt very strongly in their view on it and had good substantial enough evidence to why. Where we had the toughest time was the falsified business records because there was too many hands that were touched throughout the bank for the loan approval process for things to go unnoticed.
有三个不同的场合，我们曾经是一个未达成一致的陪审团。每个人对此都有非常坚定的观点，并且有足够充分的证据来支持自己的观点。我们最困难的时候是在伪造的商业记录方面，因为在贷款审批过程中，有太多人接触了银行的事务，以至于事情不容易被察觉。
There was one specific juror, not Jessica, who felt that we as a jury had a sort of broader responsibility given the context of the financial crisis in 2008 to make an example out of this bank. That we were somehow doing a disservice to the public to maybe the criminal justice system by allowing them to walk free.
有一位具体的陪审团成员，不是杰西卡，他认为鉴于2008年金融危机的背景，我们作为陪审团在某种程度上有更广泛的责任，要以这家银行为例。我们似乎在对公众，甚至刑事司法系统的行为不利，如果我们允许他们逍遥法外。
We sent a note on June 3rd to the judge that we were hopelessly deadlocked. Eight were on the not guilty side. Four was on the guilty. I was one of the four on the guilty. I was waiting for the judge to be in the office.
我们在6月3日给法官发送了一封信，告知我们陷入了无法解决的死结。八人持不 guilty 立场，四人则认定 guilty。我是其中一个认定 guilty 的四人之一。我正在等待法官回到办公室。
Hi, okay, so they were dismissed for the note again saying that they are deadlocked and that both sides are adamant. So the judge gave them what they call an Allen charge, which basically said go back and try to do this. So that means that by the end of tomorrow, either there will be a verdict or there will be a mistrial. Probably the last day, whether or not there's a losing unanimous verdict.
嗨，好的，所以他们因为便条被解雇了，便条上说他们陷入僵局，双方都坚持己见。因此法官给了他们所谓的阿伦指示，基本上是告诉他们回去再试一下。这意味着明天结束之前，要么有一个裁决，要么就宣布审判无效。可能是最后一天，无论是否达成不可撤销的裁决结果。
LSI bans an infinite wisdom, decides to retry the case. Jill, what are you calling going on? I'm sort of about Papa's well-being. He's 80 years old and he's been up to 5.30 a.m. and he has nothing to eat for dinner. We need to get you home. So let's get you some food. Papa, you do. Can you hear mom? So we're going to put him on a trip. He will go home now, mommy. You got to go home, Papa. Mommy's worried. But you got to eat and then take a bath. Don't drink it in subway. Okay, we'll eat. You got to eat now. You're almost in a mess. Okay? You're not a young kid anymore. I see you every day for the last 5 years. This day is still with you. Still with you.
LSI禁止了无穷的智慧，决定重审这个案件。吉尔，你到底在干什么呢？我有些担心爸爸的健康。他已经80岁了，每天都到凌晨5点半还没有吃晚饭。我们需要把你送回家。所以让我们给你弄点吃的。爸爸，你听得见妈妈说话吗？我们将把他送回家了，妈妈。你必须回家，爸爸。妈妈很担心。但你必须先吃饭，然后洗个澡。不要在地铁里喝水。好吗，我们去吃饭吧。你必须吃饭了。你已经差不多一团糟了。明白吗？你不再是一个年轻的孩子了。过去的5年里，我每天都看到你。这一天还是和你在一起。永远跟随你。
After such a long trial and so many charges against them, it's going to be very little possibility that the bank will be completely exonerated. The jury's going to find them guilty of something. If we go down on one, it's a defeat. It's got to be 80 to nothing. If you're convicted on one felony, it would be very serious ramifications for the bank. New York Times article on Friday, June 5, 2015. After a four-month trial, a jury found Abigail Federation Bank and two of his senior officers not guilty of grand law and other charges on Thursday. Rejecting the Manhattan District Attorney's attempt proved that the bank systematically lied for years to the Federal National Mortgage Association. After the court clerk read the 240 counts and repeated words, not guilty after each one, members of the son family, weapon and embrace one another. How do we feel? I feel really so many emotions. Of course. Very, very, very, very much. But I was told not to express any feelings. No, no, no, no. The jury is not allowed. Now you can express your feelings. My father, we had to text him, and actually you got it. He didn't respond to the text, so then I called him. He answered the phone and just sort of took a step back and started microwaving his vegetables and said, what? There's a verdict? Oh, should I come? You're not processing.
在经历了如此漫长的审判和众多指控后，银行被完全无罪的可能性非常小。陪审团会判他们有罪。如果我们在某一项上失败了，那就是一次失败。必须以80比0的比分取胜。如果被判有罪一项重罪，对银行将产生非常严重的后果。2015年6月5日星期五，《纽约时报》的一篇文章。经过四个月的审判，陪审团于周四判决艾比盖尔联邦银行和他的两位高级官员在重罪和其他指控上无罪。他们驳回了曼哈顿地区检察官试图证明该银行多年来系统性地对联邦国家抵押协会撒谎的指控。在法庭办事员一一宣读了240项指控后，每读一项后都宣告无罪，孙家的成员们彼此拥抱。我们感觉如何？我感到非常多的情绪。当然。非常，非常，非常多。但我被告知不要表达任何感情。不，不，不。陪审团是不允许的。现在你可以表达你的感受了。我打电话给爸爸，我们给他发了短信，他没有回复，所以我打电话给他。他接起电话后，有些迟疑了一下，开始热香蔬菜，说：“什么事情？有判决结果了？哦，我该过去吗？你还没接受现实呢。”
I didn't feel great about it, but I wouldn't have felt great if the verdict had been guilty. The way that the law was read to us is that under each charge, all of the different elements had to be met. In my mind, there were quite a significant few that three of the four requirements were met, but not all of them. And that's where the change came for the four of us to move over to the not guilty side. It was doing the right thing. Advocacy was not exonerated. Exoneration is when a person is proven innocent. I don't think there's anything here that says that Advocacy was proven innocent. Poor loser comes to mind. There's a right thing to say when a prosecution office loses a case. We respect, although we disagree with the verdict, we respect the jury's verdict. Exactly. Period.
我对此感觉不太好，但如果判决是有罪的，我也不会感觉好。法律对我们的解释是，在每项指控下，所有不同的要素都必须被满足。在我看来，三项中有相当多的重要条件被满足了，但并不是全部。这就是为什么我们中的四个人改变了立场，选择了无罪。这是做正确的事情。我们没有宣判辩方无罪。宣判无罪是指一个人被证明是无辜的。我认为这里没有任何证明Advocacy无辜的东西。失败者的形象浮现在脑海中。当一个检察官办公室输掉了一案件时，有正确的说法。我们尊重陪审团的裁决，尽管我们不同意这个裁决。没错。就这样。
I'm very happy at it, I'm very happy at it. I feel relieve because it has been a long time. I just want to resume my normal life.
我对此感到非常开心，我对此感到非常开心。我感到很宽慰，因为这已经是很长时间了。我只想恢复我的正常生活。
The bank's founder, Thomas Sung, 79, said, This wrongful prosecution has exhausted a small community bank such as ours. This is a gross injustice, not only to a small bank, but is casting a shadow on our community. This is totally prejudicial and incorrect. We Chinese have to learn from other minorities. When it comes to the community's interests, you must let those who are in power know that this shall never happen again.
这家银行的创办人79岁的桑托马斯说，这个错误的起诉已经耗尽了像我们这样的小型社区银行。这是一个严重的不公正，不仅对一个小银行不公平，也给我们的社区蒙上了阴影。这是完全有偏见和错误的。我们中国人必须向其他少数群体学习。当涉及到社区的利益时，你必须让那些掌握权力的人知道这种情况绝对不能再发生。
I'm very happy that this will be a very difficult situation. American justice has become an honor for us. Superimposed on you. Yes. Superimposed. Gondody. That's it.
我非常高兴这将是一个非常困难的情况。美国的正义对我们而言已成为一种荣誉。叠加在你身上。是的。叠加。甘多迪。就是这样。
We're going to have a good night. Hiya. I'm so glad you're all here in a very happy occasion. And I want to thank everybody's support and dedication. This last five years, and let's look for happier days to come. Okay. Let us see cake. Let us see cake.
我们将度过愉快的夜晚。大家好。我非常高兴大家在这个欢乐的场合都在这里。我想感谢大家的支持和付出。在过去的五年里，让我们期待更幸福的日子。好了，让我们看看蛋糕。让我们看看蛋糕。
How is this really good? It's a twingy, black bean green tea. There's many different flavors. It's not really a celebrate. I mean, we were vindicated, and that's great. But our goal was never to go through a criminal trial and be vindicated. Our goal was to serve our community, right? So this is such a waste. It's a tragedy. We have a lot of cake. We may have too much cake.
这真的有这么好吗？它是一款带有青豆和黑豆味的清爽绿茶，有很多不同的口味。这并不是真正的庆祝。我是说，我们已经得到了正当平反，这很棒。但我们的目标从未是经历一场刑事审判并得到辩护。我们的目标是为我们的社区服务，对吧？所以这真是个浪费，是一种悲剧。我们有很多蛋糕，可能太多了。
The fact that they find innocent gives all of us hope that the American that we believe in still, you still have a chance. But it'll cost you $10 million.
他们发现了无辜的事实，给了我们所有人希望，让我们相信我们仍然相信的美国仍然存在，你仍然有机会。但是，这将花费你1000万美元。
The Chinese has a saying. If you want a really hard, sharp steel, make a sore, you have to go through fire. This experience should make my daughters stronger, make them better person.
中国有句俗语。如果你想要一块真正坚硬锋利的钢铁，就必须经历火热的考验。这次经历应该能让我的女儿们变得更坚强，成为更好的人。
I got a text from a friend she said that she looked at the news this morning and felt proud of being a Chinese American. So that actually makes all of this worthwhile. Thank you.
我收到一条朋友的短信，她说她今早看了新闻后，感到作为一名华裔美国人感到自豪。所以这一切其实都是值得的。谢谢你。
For more on this and other Frontline programs, visit our website at PBS.org slash Frontline. Frontline's Apicus Small Enough to Jail is available on DVD. To order, visit shoppbs.org or call 1-800-PLAY-PBS. Frontline is also available for download on iTunes.
有关这个以及其他Frontline节目的更多信息，请访问我们在PBS.org / Frontline网站上。Frontline的《Apicus罪有可依》可以在DVD上找到。要订购，请访问shoppbs.org或致电1-800-PLAY-PBS。Frontline还可以在iTunes上下载。