Microsoft beat the FTC, and the Nothing Phone 2 is here | The Vergecast
发布时间 2023-07-14 14:07:58 来源
摘要
The Verge's Nilay Patel, David Pierce, and Alex Cranz discuss Microsoft winning the case against the FTC for its Activision Blizzard deal. Also: the Nothing Phone 2 and more gadgets.
Further Reading:
Meta-provided Facebook chats led a woman to plead guilty to abortion-related charges: https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/11/23790923/facebook-meta-woman-daughter-guilty-abortion-nebraska-messenger-encryption-privacy
Microsoft wins FTC fight to buy Activision Blizzard: https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/11/23779039/microsoft-activision-blizzard-ftc-trial-win
Read Xbox chief Phil Spencer’s memo to Microsoft employees about the FTC win: https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/11/23791355/microsoft-xbox-chief-phil-spencer-ftc-activision-blizzard-internal-memo
FTC appeals its loss to Microsoft in Activision Blizzard case: https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/12/23791274/ftc-microsoft-activision-blizzard-appeal
Nothing Phone 2 review: the vibes abide: https://www.theverge.com/23792961/nothing-phone-2-review-glyph-screen-battery-camera
Is the Nothing Phone (2)’s camera better than these?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gUzRa58DqM
Apple iMac rumor suggests a 32-inch version is being considered: https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/9/23788627/apple-imac-32-inch-mac-os-retina-apple-silicon
Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and Meta for copyright infringement: https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/9/23788741/sarah-silverman-openai-meta-chatgpt-llama-copyright-infringement-chatbots-artificial-intelligence-ai
00:00 - Intro
0:02:03 - Threads vibe check
0:14:13 - Apple public beta release
0:21:51 - Microsoft wins FTC case
0:48:13 - Nothing Phone 2
0:55:45 - Gadget news!
1:02:16 - Story time
1:04:40 - Lightning Round
The Vergecast Podcast: https://pod.link/430333725
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中英文字稿 
Hello and welcome to our cast, the flagship podcast of an algorithmic following feed. You're going to like it. It doesn't matter what you think.
大家好，欢迎来到我们的节目，这是一个有着算法支持的关注源的旗舰播客。您一定会喜欢的。无论您怎么想，都没关系。
Have you followed the nugget account yet? Nugget. It's going to follow you. That's my impression of Instagram. That's a whole leafy. Hi, my friend, Neil. I Alex Kranz is here. I haven't used the feed despite being on threads daily. David Pierce is here alone in the studio. It's weird. This is a real inversion. If you're watching us on video, David's in New York and we're both at home. That's not how this usually goes. No, I came to the office today and you said no. It's just you and the nugget account in the office. You don't get to know where the people you like. Just random notes. Killing it.
你有关注过nugget账号吗？Nugget。它会关注你的。这是我对Instagram的印象。完全是一片绿叶。嗨，我的朋友Neil。我是Alex Kranz。虽然我每天都上Threads，但我从未使用过Feed。David Pierce就一个人在工作室。很奇怪。这是真正的颠倒。如果你在看我们的视频，David在纽约，而我们都在家里。这不是通常的情况。不，我今天来了办公室，你说不用来了。办公室里只有你和nugget账号。你不会知道你喜欢的人在哪里。只是一些随机的笔记。真是杀得很棒。
And then our friend Taylor Werns has a deep intuitive understanding of social platforms work. And she's like a new social platform is defined by volume and she's going ham. God bless her. It's like some people know and I can't do it. Like the nugget account, pop crave and Taylor, they're like, we're going to dominate threads.
然后我们的朋友泰勒·韦恩斯对社交平台的运作有着深刻的直觉理解。她就像一个新的社交平台被数量所定义，而且她非常投入。愿上帝保佑她。就像一些人知道怎么做，而我却无法做到。就像这些账号，像是奇趣短视频、流行追踪和泰勒，他们打算主宰话题讨论。
Yeah, for me, it's memes are. Oh, memes are. I don't know where memes are came from, but like every other post is memes are. And it is true. It's a, it's a algorithmic land grab. They're like, Oh, you don't know who to follow? Here's some posts. Yeah, just fire shit into the algorithm and maybe it will reward you. Adam and Sarah will be like, turn up the knob on that person, pop crave. For a while there, I was getting Bible verses. I think Casey was getting Bible verses too. And I was like, this algorithm, it's not very good. This no, thank you. It's just the Wendy's account for me on Sunday. That's only Wendy's.
对我来说，就是梗文化。哦，梗文化。我不知道梗文化是从哪里冒出来的，但是几乎每一个帖子都是梗文化。而且这是真的。这是一个算法的领地争夺。它们就像是在说：“你不知道要关注谁？这里有一些帖子。”是的，只要把内容投放到算法中，也许它就会奖励你。亚当和莎拉可能会说：“把关注 knob 调高，pop crave 这个人。”有一段时间，我一直在收到圣经经文。我觉得凯西也是。当时我就在想，这个算法真的不怎么样。我不需要，谢谢。对我来说，只有星期天的温蒂账号。只有温蒂。
All right, we should start with red. So there's a bunch of stuff. Talk about Microsoft FTC resolved. FTC lost Microsoft, maybe able to buy Activision. That's a big deal, big, big deal. We should talk about that. There's new App Beta talk about that. There's a Senate hearing right now about open AI and its data practices. The nothing fun to can. There's like a lot Bob Iger just like randomly said he was going to sell ESPN. He's all kinds of stuff going on. But let's start with threads. Just like a quick vibe check on threads.
好的，我们应该从红色开始。所以有很多事情。谈谈微软和FTC达成的解决。FTC输给了微软，或许可以收购动视暴雪。这是件大事，非常重要的事。我们应该谈谈这个。还有新的App测试版，我们可以谈谈这个。现在正在进行一场关于Open AI及其数据实践的参议院听证会。没什么有趣的事可说了。还有很多，鲍勃·艾格尔突然说他要出售ESPN。各种各样的事情都在发生。但让我们从Threads开始。简单了解一下Threads的氛围如何。
How are you feeling? I'm torn. So I feel like we've been through this thing. What? It threads is now eight days old as we're recording this has over 100 million users. The growth is insane. Seems to be going very well. Everyone at meta is very excited and keeps talking about how this has exceeded their wildest imaginations. But I also feel like the like it's not even a backlash. It's like a pre backlash. Everyone is talking about how mad they're about to be at threads for all the things that it isn't and all the features it doesn't have. The fact that your whole feed is just the nugget account.
你感觉如何？我感到很矛盾。感觉我们经历了这件事情。怎么了？threads现在已经8天了，拥有超过1亿用户。增长速度疯狂。看起来进展得很顺利。Meta的每个人都很兴奋，并不断谈论着这超出了他们最疯狂的想象。但我也感觉就像不止是一个反弹，而是一个事先的反弹。所有人都在谈论他们对threads即将发生的事情，以及它所不具备的功能。你整个消息源只是nugget账号。
There was definitely it had that energy for like four days of just like pure summer camp joy. It was just like a bunch of posters found each other again. It was very exciting. And it feels like that is already kind of starting to turn off. At least my feed has gotten very like engagement porn constantly. It's just like interact with this. Look at this meme. Do you like this meme? Here's the Spiderman meme. Remember you found the Spiderman meme funny? Here's some more Spiderman memes. And I still think it's more fun than Twitter. But it is definitely like it's settling into I think a slightly less enthusiastic phase. At least as my read so far.
在接下来的四天里，它绝对充满了纯粹的夏令营快乐的能量。就像一群海报再次相遇一样，非常令人兴奋。但现在这种感觉似乎已经开始消散了。至少在我看到的内容中，很多都是与互动有关的内容。就像“与这个互动一下吧，看看这个梗怎么样，你觉得这个梗好笑吗？这里还有一些更多的梗。”我仍然认为这比推特更有趣。但它确实正在进入一个稍微不那么热情的阶段，至少从我目前的了解来看。
Yeah. And then there's a combo platter of jaded tech journalists being like all the problems are coming. And then the nugget account and then Shakira being like what's your favorite color? And it's like blue? Is it, will you talk to me Shakira? I hear your single like you know it's like what are we supposed to do with this? And I think that's kind of exactly what they want.
是的。然后还有一群对科技媒体感到厌倦的记者，他们说所有的问题都要来了。然后又有一个小账号开始问起“你最喜欢的颜色是什么？”然后是Shakira问你会跟我聊天吗？我听说你的单曲发布了，就像你知道的那样。我们对这个应该怎么办呢？我觉得这正是他们想要的。
Yeah. Interesting right now blue skies in the middle of some sort of content moderation scan. They always will be. They don't have any. That's the issue. Yeah. They don't have any trust and safety like that's exactly right. So they they're just always going to have scandals like they didn't have any filter. So people put the N word in their usernames like that's just baby stuff right like baby problems for babies Instagram has it all. So I've seen all these people talk about like why are the vibes nice and like they've said only answer is like because we're behaving ourselves and the answer is like no.
是啊，现在蓝天白云，中间却进行着某种内容审查。它们一直都有。但是它们并没有做得很好。这就是问题。它们没有建立起信任和安全措施，完全正确。所以它们总是会发生丑闻，就像它们没有任何过滤器一样。所以有人在用户名中使用“N”字母词，就像是小儿科问题，比如婴儿的问题，Instagram上应有尽有。所以我看到所有这些人说为什么氛围那么好，他们说的唯一答案是因为我们都表现得很好，但真正的答案其实不是这样的。
The answer is a gigantic meta data center is keeping you away from it. And it works and it's good and the product is content moderation. And so you see stuff that's good and you don't see stuff that's bad and then occasionally the nugget account is like remember the eighties and she's like yes. And like people it's crazy. But like they're good at it. They're good at that thing in that way.
答案是一个巨大的元数据中心将你与之隔绝。而且它很有效，是个好东西，产品叫内容管理。所以你能看到好东西，看不到坏东西，偶尔nugget账号会发“还记得80年代吗”，然后她说“记得”。人们这样做很疯狂，但他们很擅长这一点，用这种方式。
And that's my vibe check on it right now is like people are sort of they're pretty mad because they think the problems will happen again in exactly the same way that they've always been happening. But meta has like lived through most of those problems. Right. So they're going to have new problems. Don't get me. They're still meta and we should talk about that a little bit. But it just seems like that first wave of disillusionment of new social platforms is definitely not going to happen to the right.
目前而言，这是我对它的一种感觉检验，就是人们似乎有些愤怒，因为他们认为问题将会以与过去完全相同的方式再次发生。但是Meta已经经历了其中大部分问题。对吧。所以他们将会有新问题。请别误解我，他们仍然是Meta，我们应该稍微谈一下这个问题。但是似乎第一波对新社交平台的幻灭感绝对不会出现在对这个的反应上。
Yeah. I have found myself in the unusual position this week of spending a lot of time running around reminding people that actually meta is better at running social networks than any other company on the planet. Which is like a deranged thing to have to say and feels not true. But it is true. Like meta is better at this than everybody else. It's so much bigger at it that it gets to deal with all the problems that no one else has. They're better to an extent. Right.
是的。这周我发现自己处于一个非常不寻常的境地，不停地提醒人们，实际上，Meta在经营社交网络方面比地球上任何其他公司都更出色。这听起来有些疯狂，感觉不真实。但这是真的。就像Meta在这方面比其他人都更出色。它在这方面做得更好，因此面临着没有其他人面临的所有问题。在某种程度上，它们更出色。对吧。
I think the truth is it's impossible to be good at it. Yeah. Right. But no one else is doing this better at any kind of scale than meta. Yeah. That's right. It's a deeply sad state of affairs. But seems true. And so it's weird to be that guy I'm defending meta's content moderation abilities. But I think you're right, Nei.
我认为事实是，这是不可能的。是的，没错。但是没有其他人能够在任何规模上比Meta做得更好。是的，没错。这是一种非常令人悲伤的现状。但似乎是真实的。所以，我觉得有点奇怪，我在捍卫Meta的内容管理能力。但是，内，我认为你是对的。
I found myself defending meta a lot this weekend. I didn't realize that so many people I followed were very like, we hate Facebook. So we just hate being here at all. And it's like, well, you don't have to be here. You can go somewhere else. No, but I want to be here. Because I need to be here. Please follow me. So I'm going to be just very angry here. And I'm like, that's just like a. And so it's like, I'm having to be like, you don't have to be here. You can just turn this off. I don't like you're just railing at the injustice of meta existing. And that's a weird space. But the interactions I'm having there are good. I've just realized like, oh, if someone's being dumb, I don't have to interact with them. And I can like mute them or block them. Yeah.
这个周末我发现我自己为Meta进行了很多辩解。我没有意识到我关注的那么多人都非常讨厌Facebook，他们厌恶在这里。但是，你不必在这里。你可以去别的地方。不，但我想留在这里。因为我需要留在这里。请关注我。所以我会在这里非常愤怒。我就像在劝说他们，你没必要在这里。你可以关闭这个。我不喜欢你仅仅因为Meta存在而抱怨不平。这是一个奇怪的空间。但是我在那里的互动是好的。我刚意识到，哦，如果有人表现愚蠢，我不必和他们互动。我可以屏蔽他们或封锁他们。是的。
I think that's the other thing. Like you're a pro. You're like a social media pro. Yeah, we're a pro now. No one has to convince you to use the block button button. You're just doing it. You just not do that. And I can go and like interact with people who just want to talk about cool stuff. And like, that's really, really nice. I'm not having to worry about getting pulled into culture wars.
我认为这是另一回事。就像你是个专业人士一样。你就像个社交媒体专家。是的，现在我们是专业人士了。没人需要说服你使用拉黑按钮。你就是这么做的。你不会做那种事。我可以去与只想聊一些很酷的事情的人互动。而且，这真的很好。我不需要担心被卷入文化战争中。
At one point, some guy was like, oh, you're saying this, but you're trash or whatever random troll thing it was. And I was just like, mute. Yeah. Done. In scene. And my life went on. And I didn't get really upset for an hour. Like I have to call somebody be like, do you believe what this guy said on threads? Which was far too common occurrence on Twitter. Yeah.
有一次，有个人说，“哦，你说这个，但你是垃圾或其他什么恶意的评论之类的东西。”我只是选择了静音。是的。完了。这段话结束。然后我的生活继续了。我并没有因为这件事而生气一个小时。不像我以前会打电话给某人问他们是否相信那个家伙在Twitter上说的话，这种事在Twitter上经常发生。是的。
I just think in general, people are overestimating how much the vibe is good because people are generally cool and underestimating how much it is that meta is good at content moderation. And to your point, they're not perfect at it. And there's there's still Facebook, right? Like they're still biased towards and Shakira asking you what your favorite color is like that. It's just they want engagement and they're good at getting it. And sometimes that means just the weirdest stuff is happening on this platform and like drivel like basically.
我只是认为，总体来说，人们过高估计了氛围的好处，因为人们一般都很酷，同时又低估了元内容在内容审查方面的优势。就你说的而言，他们并不完美。而且还有 Facebook 存在，对吧？就像他们对喜欢什么颜色问你这样，他们在一定程度上存在偏见。他们只是希望能够引起用户参与，而且他们擅长做到这一点。有时候这意味着这个平台上会发生一些非常奇怪和无聊的事情。
Do you know the fourth most popular Facebook page last week was like a picture of a potato. I would like and subscribe. It was in garbage day by Ryan Broadock, who's great. We'll link it.
你知道上周第四受欢迎的Facebook页面是一张土豆图片吗？我会点赞并订阅的。这是Ryan Broadock的《垃圾日》创作，他非常厉害。我们会提供链接。
But it's like it's he just had a great piece about how like the just the cultural impact of Facebook itself is almost nil because being so weighted towards engagement means that you have to acknowledge that the fourth most popular page is a picture of a potato. Right.
但这就好像他刚写了一篇很棒的文章，讨论了Facebook的文化影响几乎为零这一点，因为由于过于注重用户参与度，你必须承认第四受欢迎的页面是一张土豆的照片。没错。
Yeah. And like that's that's not that they're it's up against Barbieheimer, you know, like it's like which movie are you going to see first Barbie up inheimer or look at a picture of a potato like they're not on the same cultural scale. And so Facebook has tons of engagement and but it just doesn't have the impact threads as an opportunity for impact. I think they're taking that seriously.
是的，就像他们并不面对巴比海默，你知道的，就像你会先去看哪个电影，是巴比海默还是看一张土豆的照片，它们并不在同一个文化尺度上。因此，尽管Facebook有很多参与度，但它并没有像帖子一样有机会产生影响。我认为他们正在认真对待这个问题。
The last two things will say about this. One a lot of people have asked me in particular if I believe them about activity pub because I have said very loudly the only reason I feel comfortable using this platform is Federation and decentralization. The evidence that they are serious about it continues to grow.
关于这个问题，我最后要说的两件事情。首先，很多人特别问我是否相信他们关于ActivityPub的说法，因为我曾经大声表示，我使用这个平台的唯一原因是它的联邦化和去中心化特性，而他们对此的认真态度仍在不断增强，证据不断增多。
Yeah. Right. I've been sent screenshots of meta employees very sincerely engaging in like mailing list discussions about the standard. I've seen meta employees on threads itself like soliciting feedback for how activity pub should work like being involved in the technical side of it. I think they have to do it to launch in Europe. I actually don't think they have a choice for any number of like regulatory reasons. Now it's like a get out of jail free card. I don't know why they wouldn't do it. Yeah.
是的。对。我收到了一些关于Meta员工非常真诚地参与邮件列表讨论标准的截图。我还看到Meta员工在讨论中征求关于Activity Pub应该如何工作的反馈意见，参与其中的技术方面。我认为，他们必须这样做才能在欧洲推出。实际上，我认为出于许多监管原因，他们别无选择。现在这就成了一个免于处罚的筹码。我不知道他们为什么不这样做。是的。
Like it just in so many regulatory discussions, he brings up a whole bunch of new ones, but it ends so many of the big ones. It's like a very contradictory regulatory position that they're entering. Which is you have to be interoperable so you can get past the competition concerns, but then you've created a bunch of illegal privacy practices because you're interoperable. And that's like, I don't know the answer. But if anyone can figure out it's meta and I think also on top of all of that, they want to. I think they just want to. I think they think it's a neat technical challenge that their company is able to solve. But technical, legal, like all that machinery, this is the hardest problem for that machinery to solve. So I think they want to. I think they might have to, but I think they're excited about applying themselves to that problem. I think the Instagram team is excited about it. Like Adam Messarri just cannot stop talking about activity. Like I believe him when he says how excited he is about integrating.
在许多监管讨论中，他提出了许多新的议题，但也为许多重要的问题提供了解决方案。这种立场在监管方面是非常矛盾的。一方面，你必须要实现互操作性以解决竞争问题，但另一方面，这就创造了一系列违法的隐私做法，因为你实现了互操作性。我不知道答案，但如果有人能找到答案，我认为是Meta，而且他们也希望解决这个问题。我认为他们只是想解决这个看似不可能的技术挑战。但技术、法律等各种机制来解决这个问题是最困难的。所以我认为他们想要解决这个问题。我认为Instagram团队对此非常兴奋。就像Adam Messarri在谈到活动时无法停止讨论一样，我相信他对整合的兴奋。
But I think one of the things that I have wondered a lot about is because it's gotten so big so quickly and because meta clearly now sees this as like a real player and a real revenue opportunity for the company, does this start to look less like a place we can experiment with what sort of might be the future and more like we have to make money to make the metaverse happen and it's suddenly going to look really profitable short term to keep the doors closed. So my, the part of me that is cynical about this happening says that actually the more successful it gets, the harder it will be both technically and like culturally within meta to do this. But I do think all the people who are actually building this thing seem to be genuinely serious about it. And I believe them at least at this point.
但是，我认为我一直对这件事很感到好奇的其中一点是，因为它增长得如此之快，而且meta显然现在将其视为一个真正的参与者和公司的实际收益机会，这是否使得它看起来不再像一个我们可以用来试验可能是未来的地方，而更像是我们必须赚钱才能实现元宇宙，而且门外现在关上也会变得非常有利可图。因此，我对此的愤世嫉俗之处认为，它变得越成功，无论是技术上还是在meta公司的文化上，都会变得更加困难。但我确实认为，所有真正建设这个项目的人似乎都非常认真对待它。至少在目前，我相信他们。
It's a pretty small team, right? I think that's what Alex Heath said last week on the show. Yeah, I think most areas said it's like a couple dozen people. Like it's not, it's not huge. Like this isn't been a big time sucker financial suck for the company and like the upside is just adorbus. So like to keep do it. And I think the money importantly is also not, they don't have to invent a business model. Yeah. They have to get some data and do some ad targeting and deliver some impressions that convert into e-commerce and they know how to do that very well. Meta's good at this. Like the Facebook ad units exist today. If all meta was saying was run these Facebook ad units and you can now target people on threads, they make the money. Will they convert? Like are they good? They don't have to like invent it from whole cloth and go out to the market and say like here's a new thing to buy. They're just like, can you extend the reach of our existing things that are. This thing is Facebook.
这是一个相当小的团队，对吧？我记得上周Alex Heath在节目中是这么说的。是的，我觉得大多数领域都说是几十个人。就不算大团队。这对公司来说不是一个巨大的时间和财力的耗费，而且优势只会增加。所以他们会继续做下去。而且我觉得钱也并不是最重要的，因为他们不需要发明一个商业模式。是的，他们需要获取一些数据，做一些广告定向投放，并提供一些能转化为电子商务的展示。而他们非常擅长这样做。Meta在这方面很厉害。就像今天存在的Facebook广告单元一样。如果Meta只是说运行这些Facebook广告单元，现在你就可以针对Threads上的用户进行定向投放，他们就能赚钱了。那么他们的转化效果如何呢？他们的表现好吗？他们不需要从头开始发明，去市场上说：这是一个新的东西来买。他们只需要扩展我们现有的东西的覆盖面。就像这个东西是Facebook一样。
Yep. It is the Facebook news feed. It's kind of funny that we, you know, we're excited about the 2011 again. Okay, but here it is again. But key difference. I've not had to watch someone make a horrible, horrible dish in a video yet. Yeah. Like I haven't gotten that, that like tastes. It's a scam, but it's coming. By God, the celebrities are there to cook at you in any minute. It's coming.
是的。这就是Facebook的新闻动态。有点有趣的是，我们又对2011年感到兴奋了。好吧，但它又回来了。但关键的区别是，我还没有在视频中看到有人做一道可怕的、可怕的菜。是的，就像我还没有尝到那种味道一样。这是一个骗局，但它即将到来。天哪，就连名人们也会随时向你展示他们的烹饪技巧。它即将到来。
I will say it is still meta. This story, you know, good vibes on meta, Zucksahiro, he's got a six pack, whatever. It's still meta. The flip side of meta is still meta, right? All the problems are still there with the other platforms. They do not have end to end encryption enabled in messenger by default. And so just this week, a woman pled guilty for exchanging messages with her daughter that enabled her to get abortion pills in a state in which abortion was legal. The cops are able to go get a warrant to search her text because meta has not enabled end to end encryption by default. They should do that. They should take the political hit and just do that. And they haven't done it. And this is people have been asking them to do for years. I would make the direct comparison to Apple, right? Which is insistent upon encryption. And yes, there are ways around it, especially if I cloud on all that stuff. But when there was a San Bernardino attack in the FBI, I said, unlock the phone. Apple said, we won't. We have these principles.
我会说它仍然是meta的。你知道，这个故事，meta上的好氛围，Zucksahiro，他拥有一个六块腹肌，不管怎样，它仍然是meta。meta的另一面仍然是meta，对吧？其他平台上的问题仍然存在。它们在信使中默认没有启用端到端加密。因此，就在这周，有一名女性因与她的女儿交换信息，从而使她能够在堕胎合法的州获取堕胎药而被判有罪。警方可以获得搜查她的短信的搜查令，因为meta没有默认启用端到端加密。他们应该这样做。他们应该承担政治压力，只是这样做。但他们没有这样做。人们多年来一直在要求他们这样做。我会直接将其与苹果进行比较，对吧？苹果坚持加密。是的，有办法绕过它，特别是如果使用了iCloud等等。但当圣贝纳迪诺发生袭击事件时，FBI要求解锁手机，而苹果说，我们不会。我们有这些原则。
And so I just, it's great that Zuck is jacked and flexing on Elon. Like all great, right? Yeah. They still run some large platforms with some real problems. And that story about the woman going to jail, like, that is a horrible story. Yeah. Like I'm outraged by that story every time I think about it. I mean, there's a lot of those horrible stories. We're not going to get into them all today. But like, meta consistently has said profit over people and they're going to continue to do that. Just right now, it's really fun for the people. So yeah, yeah, take some of those good vibes. Make money off of me. I'm having a great time. Is it like an old political quote? Like when you have the chips, you got a cash. They don't hold. Yeah. So you got the political chips, cash on ended encryption. That's all I'm saying.
所以我只是觉得，扎克身材健硕、和埃隆对立，这真是太棒了。就像所有伟大的事情一样，对吧？是啊。但他们仍然管理着一些存在真实问题的大平台。关于那个女人被送进监狱的故事，简直太可怕了。是啊。每次想起那个故事，我都感到愤怒。我是说，这种可怕的故事有很多。我们今天不会涉及所有这些故事。但是，Meta一直以利润至上为信条，他们将继续如此。只是现在，对人们来说真的很有趣。所以，嗯，感受一些积极的氛围吧。赚我一笔钱。我过得很愉快。就像一个古老的政治名言吗？就像当你有筹码时，你就得赚钱。它们不会持住。是啊。所以你有政治筹码，就推动加密技术结束。这就是我想说的。
The other thing we should talk about real quick before we go into FTC. It's Apple Public Beta week. They just hit. We've got a bunch of coverage. Although Apple's like all the people have had them forever. Like people have been wearing the NDs and these forever. The official public betas are here. They're fun. They're like, it's a fun set update. Widget's man. It's just widgets. Yeah. Life is widgets now because it is 2011 again. David, you're very happy. I love widgets. I will die and my last breath will be to say smartphones should not just be things you use to open apps. Write that on my tombstone. And Monica wrote a really good thing about how the Mac is just turning into the iPhone. Which I think is exactly right. You can have desktop widgets on your Mac now. Standby is a thing. The smart display stuff is starting to become interesting. I think it's very cool.
在我们进入FTC之前，我们应该快速谈谈另一件事情。这是苹果公测周。刚刚发布了。我们有很多报道。虽然苹果人们早就用过了。像人们一直在使用NDs和这些。正式的公测在这里。它们很有趣。这是一个有趣的升级。小工具啊。现在生活变成了小工具，因为现在又回到了2011年。David，你很开心。我喜欢小工具。我将在临终前说，智能手机不应仅仅用来打开应用程序。把这句话写在我的墓碑上。Monica写了一篇非常好的文章，说Mac正变成iPhone。我认为这完全正确。现在你可以在Mac上使用桌面小工具了。待机是一种选择。智能显示的功能开始变得有趣起来。我觉得这非常酷。
I have also installed all of these betas and they have just absolutely decimated the battery life on every single one of my devices. My phone now runs really hot for about four hours every single day. It's really great. I really recommend the public betas. I talked a bunch about this with a bunch of our team on the Wednesday show. What are you guys psyched about? Have you tested anything? Is there anything you're seeing that you think is cool? I have been terrified to test it because I need my battery life. I already have bad battery life. I can't make it worse. So I put it off so far. But the standby mode, I just got one of the MagSafe chargers. But for my bedside table. I'm like, oh nice. Oh, I want this. I also got one for my car and you're a liar. Kneelai, they suck. Just throw it out there. Which ones you get? Someone hit me up on threads and said there's a new one. Okay. I got to find the brand. You should buy this one. It's the newest hottest one. I put it's like a belkin one and I stuck it in my vent and it immediately just tipped down. I'm sorry, it's drooping. It's all that's better than car play. So you know, whatever.
我也安装了所有这些测试版，它们简直完全损坏了我所有设备的电池寿命。我的手机每天都会发烫大约四个小时，真是太棒了。我真的推荐公测版。我在周三的节目中和我们团队讨论了很多关于这个的话题。你们对什么感到兴奋？你们测试过什么吗？有什么你们认为很酷的东西吗？我一直害怕测试它，因为我需要电池寿命。我已经有很差的电池寿命了，我不能让它变得更糟。所以迄今为止我一直拖延。但是待机模式，我刚刚买了一个MagSafe充电器。但是放在床头柜上。我觉得很好。哦，我想要这个。我还给我的车买了一个，但你是个骗子。Kneelai，它们糟透了。就这样说吧。你买了哪个牌子的？有人在threads上跟我说有一个新的。好的，我得找找那个品牌。你应该买这个，它是最新最火的。我买了一个贝尔金的，插在通风口上，它立刻就下垂了。很抱歉，它松垂了。不过总比车载播放好。所以你知道，无所谓了。
Nope. So I'm in every other year, macOS updater. So I just skipped Ventura. Like I just like missed me with it. Come at me the next year when you figured it out. So I'm just excited about like a fresh coat of paint on macOS. And then I missed out on all the Ventura features. So I'm excited about dumb stuff like continuity camera that I just had used for a year. It just seems like there's a layer of polish and that stuff stage manager on the iPad.
不行，所以我在每两年更新一次的macOS版本中。所以我就跳过了Ventura。就像是错过了它一样。等你们搞明白了再来找我吧。所以我只对macOS上的全新外观感到兴奋。然后我错过了所有Ventura的功能。所以我对像连续相机这样的愚蠢功能感到兴奋，我在过去一年中一直在使用它。看起来似乎有一层光泽，而且那个iPad上的舞台管理器。
David, you wrote about it. It's not great, but it's not just. But it's not awful anymore. David's no longer like furious every time he mentions it. Like previously we would have heard a loud groan as soon as you said stage and we didn't get that. It's gotten to the point where like I no longer think you're a bad person if you use stage manager. Wow. For like a whole year. For like a whole year. Yeah. Like if you use stage manager, you and I are just not on the same page. But now it's like they're doing a thing. I don't think they've done it yet. There's a lot of work left to do. And I like I feel the same way about standby actually, which is that standby is like an amazing idea that basically has no idea the rest of the iPhone exists.
大卫，你写了关于这个的东西。它不是很棒，但也不是完全不公平。但它不再可怕了。大卫不再在提起它时愤怒。以前我们只要一说到舞台，就能听到他的大声抱怨，但现在不会了。现在让我不再认为你使用舞台经理这个词就是一个坏人。哇，整整一年啊。整整一年。是的。如果你使用舞台经理这个词，你和我就不在同一个层面上。但现在他们正在做一件事。我觉得他们还没有完成。还有很多工作要做。事实上，我对待待机模式的感觉也是一样的，它是一个很棒的想法，但却几乎没有与其他iPhone的功能联系在一起。
So like you put your phone up landscape and then you tap the thing to open the app and it just opens an app sideways. Yep. And it's like, well, that's not great. This is not how this is supposed to work. But you can see where it's going and stage manager. I think now you can see where it's going and that makes me very happy. Yeah. I wonder if I'm ever going to use standby mode. It's one of those things where I'm going to buy a dock and be excited about it and it will never happen. You're going to use it when you get in your car and car play comes on and you're like, Oh, actually, car play is good. And then your phone will just go into standby mode.
就像你把手机横放，然后点击打开应用，它会侧向打开一个应用。没错。这样不太好。它不应该这样运作。但你可以看出发展的方向，舞台经理。我现在认为你可以看出发展的方向，这让我很开心。是的。我想知道我会不会用待机模式。这是一种情况，我会买一个底座然后激动不已，但最终可能不会用到。当你上车并启动车载导航时，你会使用它，然后你会觉得，哦，实际上，车载导航很好用。然后你的手机就会进入待机模式。
No, Neelite, you do want to know my theory that the thing of all of this that is going to be the best for you is the redesign on the watch where you just scroll the digital crown, the revolutionary input device on par with the mouse and multi touch. And it's just widgets. Yeah, just just a bunch of widgets. Neelite is going to be out here just wiggeting all day. I read these preview of watch. I was 10 or she was like, and now you use the digital crown more and I was like, Oh, we're going backwards. We just got Kevin Lynch got in that car and I was like, juke and put it in reverse and just like speed it off the backwards.
不，Neelite，你确实想知道我的理论，即这一切中对你来说最好的是重新设计的手表，你只需要滚动数字表冠，这是与鼠标和多点触控相媲美的革命性输入设备。而且只是小部件。是的，只是一堆小部件。Neelite会一整天都在使用这些小部件。我读了手表的预览，我的心跳加速，因为现在你需要更多地使用数字表冠，我就像，“哦，我们在倒退。”我们刚刚开始，Kevin Lynch上了那辆车，我就像轻抬脚踩下油门，倒车然后快速倒退。
People, nobody understands the magic of it. He has to make you use it now. He's like, you will use it. Yeah. I'm using it. I don't want to prejudge. I get I understand why you would head that way, right? These like app clippy widget things where you get lots of slices of different apps on a screen that's getting ever larger. I get it all sort of emotionally, but I'm just kind of like, I don't know, man, I'm not, I'm not out here trying to like fiddle with the watch all day long, like, give me the modular face with as much text on it as I can get and I will be happy. But we'll see.
人们，没有人理解它的神奇之处。他现在必须让你使用它。他就像说：“你会用它的。”是的，我正在使用它。我不想过早判断。我明白你为什么会考虑那个方向，对吗？这些像应用小助手小部件一样的东西，在一个越来越大的屏幕上展示许多不同应用的片段。情感上我都理解，但我只是有点儿，不知道呀，朋友，我不是在整天搞这个手表，给我一个多文本的模块化面板，我会很满足。但我们会见分晓的。
Just a little book on your phone on your watch. Yeah. So, let's figure out a go. If you're, you know, the sort of person who downloads beta is go hit him like use him and then send us a note. I'm very curious to see what you all think of them. I will say the one I would most years I would say at this point in time, everyone, almost everyone should feel comfortable downloading the public betas. This year, especially on iOS, I have had more weirdness than usual. There's this weird keyboard bug in a lot of apps that like it'll just sort of disappear the text box and so you'll be kind of typing into nothing. It's gone in some apps, but like it's still there for me in messages.
只需一本小书，就能在你的手机和手表上阅读。是的，所以，让我们找出一个方法。如果你是那种下载测试版应用的人，尽管使用它并给我们留言。我非常好奇你们对它们的看法。我想说的是，就目前而言，几乎每个人都应该放心地下载公测版。今年在iOS上，我遇到的问题比往常多。很多应用中有一个奇怪的键盘错误，导致文本框突然消失，这样你就无法输入内容了。这个问题在一些应用中已经解决，但在我的信息应用中仍然存在。
So it's still like if you are not a person who wants to spend your day like closing and reopening apps to make things work, I would probably wait one more rev on the public beta before you download it. Okay. Two things. I just saw two things. I have a much better answer to my favorite public beta moment. Okay. So we are like long past the point where Apple can even talk about all the features of iOS. Yeah. Like, do you remember when Apple was like, and now you can copy and paste and that took an hour to announce? Yeah. Right. And now it's just like there's too much. Long press was like an entire Apple event. Yeah.
所以，如果你不是一个喜欢一整天不断关闭和重新打开应用程序来使事物正常工作的人，我可能会建议你在下载之前再等待一个公测版本的更新。好的，有两件事情。我刚刚看到了两件事情。我对我最喜欢的公测瞬间有一个更好的答案。好的。所以我们已经远远超过了苹果能够谈论iOS所有功能的时候。是的。还记得苹果曾经说过「现在你可以复制和粘贴」，那花了一个小时来宣布吗？是的。现在已经太多了。长按甚至成为了一个完整的苹果事件。是的。
They could not, they could not announce all this stuff this year. And one thing they didn't really announce or spend time on is this personal voice assistant thing and accessibility where you can train it on your voice and then it can speak for you. So 15 minutes of training and then overnight locally it processes an AI voice for you. Cool as hell. Straight up cool as hell. Have you done yours yet? No, I don't have the baby. I'm not brave enough. Oh, yeah. Look, this is a production environment, David. All right. We don't necessarily.
他们无法在今年宣布所有这些东西。而且，他们没有真正宣布或花时间在个人语音助手和访问性上，你可以训练它使用你的声音，然后它可以代替你讲话。只需要15分钟的训练，然后它本地处理一个AI声音给你。酷毙了。真的酷毙了。你已经做了吗？没有，我还没有胆量。哦，是的。看，这是一个生产环境，大卫。我们不一定。
So I have recorded the requisite 150 sentences. My thing is still processing. It takes a long time to do it. It turns out data centers are faster at this than your phone. But I will come on the show next week and I will play for you some of what we have. And then we're working on some other fun stuff for later this month.
所以我录制好了所需的150个句子。我的工具还在处理中。这个过程需要很长时间。事实证明，数据中心在这方面比手机更快。但是下周我会参加节目，并为你们播放一部分我们录好的内容。然后我们还在为本月晚些时候准备其他有趣的东西。
So here's my absolute favorite public video moment and shout to our friend, Mark Hasbronley because I understand exactly why this happened. He made it TikTok, definitely in this feature. And it was obviously in Drafts and TikTok has a bug where if the video is in Drafts and you publish it, it will just play whatever music you picked at full volume and not run your audio. And it was just the Paw Patrol theme song. And it was just the funniest thing I've ever seen. And I was like, I really hope they leave it up. And they took it down and they put it up. And it's the real video now. It's great. Mark has a great job. But there was just that brief, like 50 minutes where it was just, it was a regular Mark Has demo video like he's talking, but instead of any audio, it was just full volume Paw Patrol. Incredible. I was like, this is what this is what the Internet's for. We don't worry. We saved a clip. If you need it, you know, send us a Bitcoin. Okay, it's horrible for the environment. Okay. But if you're using it, virtual has to the virtual com. I'd love to hear it. I'm always curious.
这是我绝对最喜欢的公开视频时刻，向我们的朋友Mark Hasbronley致以敬意，因为我完全理解为什么会发生这种情况。他在TikTok上制作了这个视频，明显是在草稿箱里。TikTok存在一个bug，即如果视频在草稿箱中并且你将其发布，它就会用你选择的音乐以最大音量播放，而不是播放你的音频。而这个视频的背景音乐正是《宠物巡逻队》的主题曲。这是我见过的最有趣的事情。我当时就想，真希望他们能让它保留下来。他们把它删除了，然后再重新上传，并附了真正的视频。很棒。Mark干得漂亮。但在那短短的50分钟内，那个视频就像是一个普通的Mark演示视频，他在讲话，但是没有任何声音，只有全音量的《宠物巡逻队》。太神奇了。当时我就想，这就是互联网的意义所在。不用担心，我们保存了一个片段。如果你需要，可以用比特币付款给我们。好吧，这对环境来说很糟糕。好吧。但如果你使用它，就要为虚拟公司付出代价。我很想听听它。我一直很好奇。
Okay. We should talk about the big, big news of the week. There's just a lot of interpretation of this. A lot of ways you can think about it. But Tom, Addie, Andrew, we covered the hell out of the FTC versus Microsoft trial. Ups down, Swiss turns, decision came out. FTC lost. Like in pretty thorough fashion, I would say. Yeah. Yeah, it was this whole thing went very quickly because Microsoft had this July 18th deadline by which it had to acquire or it had to finalize the deal to acquire Activision Blizzard or not. So this all happened super fast. And the thing, the thing I really want to talk about and the thing I want you specifically to explain to me in the lab because you've been sort of talking about this obliquely all week and I want you to like put all your thoughts in one place for me is this entire thing turned out to be about Call of Duty. Yeah. Like in the judges ruling, like the second or third sentence was about Call of Duty. It says the gist of the FTC's complaint is Call of Duty is so popular and such an important supply for any video game platform that the combined firm is probably going to foreclose it from its rivals for its own economic benefit to customers detriment. Yeah. And then it goes on to basically say that's not the case and so they lose. How is that what this trial is about? Like if this became, can everyone have Call of Duty or not? And I don't feel like that was what the FTC actually meant to argue if it was going to try to win this case. What is happening here? Explain this to me.
好的。我们应该谈谈这周的重大新闻。对这个的解释有很多，可以从很多角度来思考。但是汤姆、艾迪、安德鲁，我们已经详细报道了联邦贸易委员会对微软的审判。涵盖了方方面面，瑞士转折，裁决结果出来了。联邦贸易委员会败诉。我认为可以说是很彻底的。 是的。是的，整个过程非常快，因为微软有个截止日期，即7月18日，它必须完成收购动视暴雪的交易。所以这一切发生得超级快。而我真正想谈谈和想请你在实验室给我解释的是，这整件事情竟然是关于《使命召唤》的。是的，就在法官的判决中，第二或第三句提到了《使命召唤》。它说联邦贸易委员会的投诉的要点是《使命召唤》非常受欢迎，对于任何视频游戏平台来说都是一个非常重要的供应，合并后的公司很可能会把它从竞争对手那里排除在外，占据自己的经济利益，损害顾客的利益。然后它接着说这不是事实，所以他们败诉了。这个审判到底是关于什么的呢？如果这个变成了每个人都能拥有《使命召唤》还是不能拥有，《使命召唤》并不是联邦贸易委员会真正想要争论的内容，如果他们打算赢得这个案子。这里到底发生了什么？请你解释给我听。
I'm going to respond to this by offering a statement that I can not back up, but which I believe is true. Okay. Sony doesn't think cloud gaming will happen. Ooh. That's what I believe. Okay. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if inside of Sony there's some, you know, we've, we've reported on and Sean Hollister has reported on, uh, you know, the hires that Sony has listed to build a new cloud gaming service and they've had their fits and starts and whatever. They've got this weird handheld that only runs over Wi-Fi. It doesn't seem like they're working on it very hard, right? They bought guy-kai and killed it. Like, right. Sony, I think at a, at a base level is like the future of consoles is giant ass GPUs in your living room and will send code to you and you'll run them locally, right? Like I think that's Sony's bet. Yep. If you're Sony, that's a good bet. It has won you every generation of the console work. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. Every time Microsoft is like, we have a new idea and Sony is like, we have more powerful games and Sony just keeps winning. Yeah. It's, it's fine. It's just the way it goes. I mean, is it winning? Yeah, it is winning this time. I forgot that's not the PS3. It is winning.
我打算通过提供一个我无法支持但我相信是真实的陈述来回应这个问题。好吧。索尼不认为云游戏会发生。哦。这就是我的看法。好吧。我不知道这是否正确。我不知道在索尼内部是否存在一些，你知道的，我们报道过，肖恩·霍利斯特也报道过，索尼已经列出了一些建立新的云游戏服务的员工招聘，并且他们也经历了一些起起落落。他们有这个奇怪的只能在Wi-Fi上运行的便携设备，似乎他们对此并没有很努力的研发，对吧？他们收购了盖柏然后关闭了它。对，索尼我认为在基本层面上是这样的，游戏主机的未来是你客厅里的巨型GPU，并将代码发送给你，然后你在本地运行这些代码，对吧？我认为这是索尼的赌注。对，如果你是索尼，这是一个很好的赌注。因为这使得你在每一代游戏主机上都取得了胜利。好吧，公平的说。是啊，每当微软说我们有一个新的想法，索尼则说我们有更强大的游戏，而索尼一直在赢。是的，这就是情况。我是说，这次确实是赢了。对不起，我忘了这不是PS3。但确实是赢了。
You know, Microsoft's point of view and I've had Phil Spencer on decoder and he has said this out loud. I think he said, I try. I was like, look, the console market is shrinking. We're losing to mobile. So winning this small, ever smaller slice of pie is not the point. And he has said to me and he said to the court, call of duty is not the point of this acquisition. The point of this acquisition in the present is like candy crush, the king, which activation also owns that makes a ton of money on mobile games. The point of this acquisition is building a library for our cloud gaming future, which hey, we own Azure. This is a great business for us to be in. We've got all these ideas about cloud gaming. One day we'll solve the Apple problem and ship a Xbox cloud gaming app on the phone. And so you're like, that's why they're doing it.
你知道，微软的观点是，我曾在《解码者》节目上采访过菲尔·斯宾塞，他公开说过这个观点。我记得他说过：“我试过。”我对他说：“看，游戏主机市场正在萎缩，我们正在输给移动设备。所以赢得这个越来越小的市场份额并不是目标。”他对我和法庭说过，收购《使命召唤》并不是这次收购的目的。这次收购的目的是像《糖果传奇》和《皇室战争》这样的移动游戏，这些游戏同样由动视公司拥有，并且在移动游戏上赚了很多钱。这次收购的目的是为了为我们未来的云游戏打造一个游戏库，我们拥有Azure云平台，这对我们来说是一个很好的业务机会。我们有关云游戏的很多想法，总有一天我们会解决苹果的问题，并在手机上推出Xbox云游戏应用。所以你会明白，这就是他们这样做的原因。
And so if you're the FTC, I think they kind of got baited by both Microsoft and Sony into endlessly talking about call of duty because what Sony wants is call of duty. So Sony's version of this is we don't care about any of the rest of this. We just want some kind of assurance that we're going to keep getting call of duty. But this is the only game that Activision makes that Sony gives a shit about. Apparently, they haven't talked about any others. They don't care about Diablo for. It's a show. They don't care about Starfield, like all the other stuff Microsoft makes. They don't they have a lot of exclusives. Right. And the numbers we've heard are insane and back that up, right? Like the numbers that came up about the huge percentage of people who game who only play call of duty and the billions of dollars in revenue that this means to Sony every single year. And I can't see why.
所以，如果你是联邦贸易委员会（FTC），我认为他们被微软和索尼引诱无休止地谈论《使命召唤》，因为索尼想要的就是《使命召唤》。所以，索尼的观点是，我们不关心其他的东西，我们只是想要一些保证我们能继续得到《使命召唤》。但这是Activision唯一一款索尼关注的游戏。显然，他们没有谈论过其他任何游戏。他们对《暗黑破坏神》什么的不感兴趣。这是个展示。他们对微软制作的《星田》之类的其他东西也不感兴趣。他们拥有很多独占游戏。而且我们听到的数字也证明了这一点，对吧？那些关于只玩《使命召唤》的游戏玩家所占的巨大比例，以及每年给索尼带来的数十亿美元收入。我无法理解这是为什么。
But but again, to your point, like this actually should not have been a lawsuit about call of duty because no one was actually in disagreement about call of duty. If you're saying we're worried about this and your opponent is like, here you go. Like over and over again. It's like, here you go. You want it on the switch? What's some no name, third rates, game streaming service, crackle, call of duty on crackle, anything you want, call of duty, wherever you want it, right? Microsoft has been saying this around the world and you know, the court and its opinion said this is one of the biggest deals in world that deserves scrutiny. It got a lot of scrutiny. This is fine. Guess what? All the scrutiny resulted in call of duty. Microsoft was showing up at the table with that deal for everyone. Yeah.
但是再说一次，根据你的观点，实际上这本不应该是关于《使命召唤》的一场诉讼，因为对于《使命召唤》，没有人真正存在异议。如果你说我们担心这个问题，而你的对手就像是在说：“给你。”一次又一次地，就像是：“给你。”你想要在Switch上吗？一个无名的、三流的游戏流媒体服务“crackle”，用crackle平台玩《使命召唤》，只要你想要的，你把它放在哪里，没问题吧？微软一直在全球范围内宣传这一点，法庭在其意见中也表示，这是世界上值得审查的最大交易之一。它吸引了很多关注。一切都没问题。猜猜结果是什么？所有这些关注让《使命召唤》得以成为微软给所有人提供的交易。是的。
Can I just read you that chunk of the opinion? Because actually they get super interesting. Yeah. It says Microsoft's acquisition of Activision has been described as the largest in tech history. It deserves scrutiny. That scrutiny has paid off. Microsoft has committed in writing in public and in court to keep call of duty on PlayStation for 10 years on parody with Xbox. It made an agreement with Nintendo to bring call of duty to switch and it entered several agreements to for the first time bring Activision's content to several cloud gaming services.
我可以直接读给你听这一段评论吗？因为事实上它们非常有趣。是的。它说，微软收购动视暴雪被称为科技史上最大的收购案。这值得审查。这种审查是有回报的。微软在书面、公开和法庭上承诺在未来10年内将使命召唤游戏在PlayStation上与Xbox平台保持一致。它还与任天堂达成协议，将使命召唤游戏带到Switch平台，并与多个云游戏服务达成协议，首次将动视暴雪的内容带到云游戏服务。
And then it's basically the implication there is like, and we're done here. Yeah. And I think you're right. Like that's everyone at Microsoft was up there yelling that this was what they wanted to do through the entire process. Yeah. Here's the deal that we would like to give you in the courts. Like they're going to give you that deal. That's fine.
然后基本上暗示就是我们结束了。是啊，我觉得你说得对。就像微软的每个人都在大声喊着，这就是他们在整个过程中想要做的。嗯，这是我们想在法庭上给你的交易。他们会给你那个交易。没关系。
I just think that there's something in there that's like everyone wants to pile and actually see for losing this case. And you should. I think they got distracted into this call of duty side show, right? And it's because Sony wanted the steal. So like Sony is screaming, like give us call of duty and the FTC is like, all right, that's our way in. Like this other big company is mad about it and like, we'll find some anti-competitive stuff. And then you've got Sony's own executives and emails in evidence being like, I'm not so worried about this. Yeah, whatever.
我只是觉得在其中会有一些人们想要一窝蜂地堆在一起并确实看到对方输掉这个案件的东西。而且你也应该这样认为。我认为他们被这个使命召唤的副秀分散了注意力，对吧？这是因为索尼想要窃取对方。就像索尼在尖叫，要我们的使命召唤，而联邦贸易委员会就说，好吧，这是我们进入的方式。像这个其他大公司对此很生气，我们会找到一些反竞争的东西。然后你还有索尼自己高管和在证据中的邮件，他们说，我对此并不担心，随便怎样。
But then you look around the world, right? It's still not done in the UK. And the UK is like focused on cloud gaming. You look at the EU, which focused on cloud gaming and call of duty and got call of duty and said, all right, we'll see if the Americans can do this. It's not that the FTC shouldn't have done this scrutiny. Every other big regulatory body apply the same level scrutiny and is getting various kinds of deals.
但是你看看世界周围，对吧？在英国这样的事情还没有完成。而英国则专注于云游戏。你看看欧盟，他们专注于云游戏和《使命召唤》，他们得到了《使命召唤》，然后说：“好吧，我们看看美国人能不能做到这一点。”并不是说联邦贸易委员会不应该对此进行审查。每个其他大型监管机构都会进行相同的审查，并获得各种类型的交易。
I think what people are looking at is the FTC lost this case in court and they've lost some other cases. And you're like, maybe this isn't maybe they're just always going to lose and they should never try. And I just that to me is the mistake and it's a mistake for two reasons. One, the court itself is saying, look at what the scrutiny got you. It got you call of duty. If Microsoft wasn't anticipating the scrutiny, they wouldn't have started with, we'll give you call of duty. They would have started with, we're going to make call of duty exclusive like they did with their other games. So weird, right? Like that's just a weird thing to be like, if you take away the threat, they'll still behave. I don't believe that.
我认为人们所关注的是，FTC在法庭上输掉了这个案子，他们也输掉了其他一些案件。你可能会说，也许他们总是输，他们不应该再尝试了。对我来说，这是个错误，有两个原因。首先，法庭本身说的是，看看这种监管给你们带来了什么。正是因为微软预料到了这种监管，才会先提出给你们《使命召唤》。如果没有这种威胁，他们不会这样做，而是会像他们的其他游戏一样，宣布《使命召唤》将成为独占游戏。这很奇怪，对吧？就像是说，如果你消除了威胁，他们仍然会遵守规则。我不相信这一点。
Then there's the second thing, which like very, very, very wonky, but the Lina Khan project at the FTC and Lina Khan has been on this show before she was the chairperson at FTC. You can go listen to her. Her project is that the antitrust laws of this country are bad, right? They were reinterpreted in the 80s by Robert Bork and Ron Ray and all the stuff and that we got to a place where we no longer think about competition. We just measure prices and that has led to all kinds of bad effects.
然后还有第二件事情，这个问题非常、非常、非常地扑朔迷离，但 FTC（联邦贸易委员会）的Lina Khan项目和Lina Khan在担任FTC主席之前就在这个节目上露面了。你可以去听听她的观点。她的项目是认为我国反垄断法律很糟糕，对吧？在80年代，这些法律被罗伯特·伯克和罗恩·雷重新解释了，导致我们不再关注竞争，而只是盲目关注价格，这产生了各种不良影响。
And I think that is true. It's true for a variety of reasons. And her project is to go get the courts or Congress or someone to reset antitrust law. And there's two ways to do it. One, you create a lot of political capital. You make a lot of angry people so that Congress does something. So Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren and Ken Buck, who's Republican, who's on that committee, can pass the antitrust bill that they've had in their back pocket forever, right? Saying, look, this wasn't the right outcome under the existing law. There's a new law or you take it up to the appeals court and say the way we've been applying this law for ages is inappropriate because of these effects in this thing. We want you to read a new precedent and you take that to the Supreme Court, which I would just point out. This particular Supreme Court is like new precedent. Here you go. Like they're just into it.
我认为这是正确的。这是基于各种原因的事实。她的项目是争取让法院、国会或其他机构重置反垄断法。有两种方式可以实现这一点。第一种是创造大量的政治资本，让很多人愤怒，以便国会采取行动。所以艾米·克洛布彻尔、伊丽莎白·沃伦以及肯·巴克（他是共和党员，同时也是那个委员会的成员）会通过他们一直搁置的反垄断法案。他们会说，看，根据现行法律，这个结果是错误的。我们需要新的法律，或者你将案件上诉到上诉法院，说我们一直以来对这个法律的应用是不合适的，因为这个事件造成了一些影响。我们希望你们制定一个新的先例，然后将它提交给最高法院。值得一提的是，这个最高法院喜欢新的先例。就是这样，他们会很乐意接受的。
So you she's just playing a long game. I think she's played the early innings of that long game. Kind of stupidly like candidly. I think she has done a bad job with these things. She certainly has not explained that she is playing a long game. Right. And you would think it would help to have some kind of like small wins along the way to prove that like we are stepping in the right direction and then said it's just like I'm going to lose aggressively and then I'm going to win and that gets harder I think.
所以你说她只是在玩一场长期游戏。我觉得她已经玩过了这场长期游戏的早期回合。有点傻乎乎的，坦率地说。我认为她在这些事情上做得很糟糕。她肯定没有解释她在玩一场长期游戏。是的。你会认为在前进的道路上取得一些小小成功会有所帮助，以证明我们正在朝着正确的方向迈进，然后她却像是在说“我要强势地输，然后再赢”，这使得事情变得更加艰难。
Could she have ever won this case? Because like even the deal for the Sony deal, that's only 10 years. College duty's been around for more than 20. It's been a huge, huge thing for more than 20 years. So nothing's to stop Microsoft 10 years from now from just saying, okay, that's it. Exclusive.
她能赢得这个案件吗？因为就算是为Sony的交易，只有10年的合约。大学费用已经存在了20多年了。在过去的20多年里，它一直是一个非常、非常重要的事情。所以，现在没有任何事情能阻止微软在10年后说“好吧，不再提供独家权利”了。
Yeah, but we'll all be dead then. There'll be like a new generation of dancing teens on a different platform. Like whatever. Even that felt kind of anti competitive to me and the court saying, no, this is fine. Like was there any hope of winning this case? If she'd gone after the other stuff, she hadn't gone after college duty. I don't know. I think we just won't know.
是的，但到那时我们都已经死了。会有一代新的年轻人在另一个平台上跳舞。就随便吧。即使这样，我还是觉得这有点不公平竞争，法院却说这没问题。这个案子胜诉的希望有吗？如果她抨击了其他的事情，而没有抨击大学责任的话。我不知道。我觉得我们将永远不会知道结果。
I think the the call of duty stuff was just such a distraction and somehow we ended just talking about it and I just will point you to Phil Spencer on decoders like this deal is not about call of duty. Who wants it? Do you want to? Well, we're going to run call of duty in the high frame on the verge.com like 10 years. So he'll write that deal with us tomorrow. He fine. As long as you're paying 70 bucks a pop for college, it's a great business. They're not going to change it. This thing is about, okay, how do we create a new paradigm for games that ends the console era and creates new market share? And that's how we end up talking about like the switch on all this other stuff, right?
我觉得Call of Duty的事情只是一个干扰，但我们最终还是在谈论它。我会给你参考Phil Spencer在像这样的商业模式上的观点，这不是关于Call of Duty的。谁想要它呢？你想要吗？我们将在verge.com上运行高帧率的Call of Duty大约10年。所以他明天会和我们谈这个交易。他没问题。只要你每个大学付70美元的费用，这是个好生意。他们不会改变它。这件事是关于，好吧，我们如何创造一个结束游戏机时代并开创新的市场份额的新范式？这就是我们最终会谈论像Switch和其他东西的原因，对吧？
Like, okay, and maybe they should have a big library of exclusives to do it. But you just see how with every other kind of streaming media that cycle is bad for consumers, it leads to less choices, it leads to less content and it leads to higher prices. Like just look at the streaming television industry. Not everything is on every service. All the prices are completely insane and the apps are not good. And you're like, do we have, is that how you want this to go? Like, shouldn't we make sure there's like a lot of competition here or a lot of like developers across these services so they have to compete for our dollars or quality as opposed to competing for dollars with content that comes and goes? That's the thing I'm worried about.
喜欢，好，也许他们应该有一个巨大的独家图书馆来实现这一点。但是你可以看到，对于其他任何类型的流媒体来说，这种周期对消费者来说是不好的，它导致选择减少、内容减少，价格上涨。就拿流媒体电视行业来说吧，不是所有内容都能在每个服务上找到。所有价格都非常疯狂，应用程序也不太好用。你可能会想，这就是你想要的结果吗？我们不应该确保这里有很多竞争吗，或者有很多开发者在这些服务之间竞争，这样他们就必须为我们的质量或者我们的钱竞争，而不是为来去无踪的内容竞争？这就是我担心的事情。
My question is why didn't the judge see that? Because they made that case. Like during the thing, they maybe didn't hammer on it the same as call of duty. Yeah, like that's my thing is like, how could she have one if the judge doesn't even like understand club gaming, right? Like if the judge is kind of being a dumbass. Well, Alex, wait, I'm realized I've been very strident, but I think we get to a place where like, how can the American legal system not understand club gaming? We might have already lost.
我的问题是为什么法官没有看到这一点呢？因为他们没有提到这一点。就像在审讯中，他们可能没有像《使命召唤》那样强调这一点。是的，我的意思是，如果法官甚至不理解电竞俱乐部，那么她怎么能赢呢？就像如果法官有点傻。好吧，亚历克斯，等等，我意识到我一直很激进，但我认为我们可能已经输了，美国的法律体系怎么会不理解电竞俱乐部呢？
Right. That's true. But that's if that's if her strategy is to overturn antitrust law at a higher court, they still have to, they're going to have to understand club gaming, right? Like they're going to have to understand this stuff. And if we can't get this judge to understand it, how are we going to get the next judge to understand it? But this is where we come back to. I feel like so many of these fights and trials end up coming down to market size definitions.
没错，那是真的。但前提是她的策略是在高级法院推翻反垄断法，他们仍然需要理解俱乐部游戏，对吧？他们需要理解这些东西。如果我们不能让这位法官理解，我们又如何让下一位法官理解呢？但这正是我们需要回到的地方。我觉得许多这样的争议和审判最终都归结为市场规模的定义问题。
And this was the case again, right? They had this giant fight over is Nintendo, a genuine competitor to Sony and Microsoft and is the cloud an actual threat to the console world. And I think in that case, if Sony is in the ear of the FTC being the one sort of explaining the other side of this fight and Sony is out here saying, yeah, we're not that worried about cloud gaming. It's fine. Then I can see how you would sort of write it off as like a lark that Microsoft is on and Microsoft has been on many larks that have not worked out.
这次情况也是如此，对吧？他们就是因为任天堂到底是索尼和微软真正的竞争对手，云端是否对游戏主机产生真正的威胁而进行了激烈争论。在这种情况下，如果索尼向联邦贸易委员会（FTC）耳提面命，解释争论的另一方面，并且索尼称，是的，我们对云游戏不是那么担心，一切都好，我可以理解为什么你会将之轻描淡写地视为微软正在进行的一种嬉戏，而微软曾经进行过很多没有成功的嬉戏。
And so I think Microsoft is also sitting there saying cloud gaming is like cool and fine, but we don't really care about it. Like they spent so much time. They tell investors it's the future. They tell the world. It's the future. They talk a ton about it. And then they sit on the stand and say, oh, we've pretty much paused all of our cloud gaming stuff. We don't care about it all that much. Is that like where the screw up happened for Colin? Like is that where she or her team screwed up as they didn't try to explain the actual technology stuff in a way that the judge could grasp?
所以我认为微软也坐在那里说云游戏是很酷很好，但实际上我们并不太在意。他们花了那么多时间。他们告诉投资者这是未来。他们告诉全世界，这是未来。他们大谈特谈它。然后他们坐在证据席上说，哦，我们几乎停止了所有云游戏相关的事情。我们并不是特别关心它。这是Colin犯错的地方吗？她或她的团队没有尽力以一种法官能够理解的方式解释实际的技术问题？
No, I think the screw up happened that Sony basically was like, we're the competitor and we will be harmed in the judge will understand us. Sony saying this is anti competitive and then they fell down the rabbit hole of calls. Okay.
不，我觉得索尼的问题在于他们基本上认为自己是竞争对手，而法官会理解我们会受到伤害。索尼这么说是反竞争的，然后他们陷入了一连串的问题当中。好吧。
Yeah, I think that's right. But the one I'll compare to and this is really interesting and I trust is broken. So right. This is so long. Just go with me on this. This is what's a vertical merger, right? Where you buy the next company up and down the stack from you.
是的，我认为那是正确的。但是我要对比的那个很有趣的，我相信已经破产了。所以没错。这太长了。就请跟着我想，我说的是什么垂直兼并对吧？就是你从堆栈中购买上下游的下一家公司。
So Microsoft needs games by games. They're not direct competitor. It's a vertical merger. Microsoft bought Sony. That'd be horizontal merger right through direct competitors. Vertical mergers like never get challenged. There hasn't been one in like 40 years. The last one that challenged was 18 T time Warner by the Trump administration. The answer to every antitrust trivia question in like the best way. It's like very good. It's a very good. So this opinion like has to cite the most recent precedent.
微软需要游戏，它们并非直接竞争对手。这是一个垂直合并。微软收购了索尼。那将是一个水平合并，涉及直接竞争对手。垂直合并几乎从未受到挑战。近40年来都没有出现过这样的合并。最后一个受到挑战的合并是在特朗普政府时期的AT＆T和时代华纳合并。这是每个反垄断琐事问题的最佳答案，非常好。因此，这种观点必须引用最近的先例。
It just has to continuously cite 18 T and time Warner as good precedent for allowing vertical mergers. And it's just like my dude. Did that work? Was that a good idea? Is anyone happy about that? Except for David Zazloff, Zack Snyder. Like Zack Snyder got to put out like a weird gray square version of the eight people who watch that are probably happy. I watched all three hours. I thought about watching it the other day and I sat down and I was like, I can't do this. Like I can't be watching a square movie right now.
它只是不断地引用18 T和Time Warner作为允许垂直合并的良好先例。就像我的哥们一样，这样做有用吗？这是个好主意吗？有人对此满意吗？除了David Zazloff和Zack Snyder之外。像Zack Snyder一样，他发布了一个奇怪的灰色方形版本，八个观看的人可能会开心。我看了整整三个小时。前几天我想再看一遍，可是我坐下来后就觉得我做不到。我现在不能看一个方形电影。
It's like if there's you know those AI things where it's like we made the thing wide. It's like just do that for for just to say just please. Just expand the frame. Please let me use my whole TV. That's it. It's like super didn't work. It was a disaster idea that caused thousands of people to lose their jobs because the theory of the merger was bad. And yeah, you could say maybe the market will start out our time.
就好像你知道那些人工智能的东西一样，我们将东西做得很宽。就这样，请就是为了说请。扩大画面吧，让我能够使用整个电视屏幕。就这样。真是没什么效果，简直是个灾难性的想法，导致成千上万的人失去了工作，因为合并的理论是错误的。是的，你可以说市场可能会慢慢恢复。
But like the government could have stopped it by saying this will reduce competition, which it definitely did. We definitely ended up with more consolidation on the other end of that in streaming. And we ended up with a less competitive wireless marketplace over time. Like it just all that happened. Like AT&T did not spend money on its network because they were busy spending money on fucking gray Justice League.
但是政府本可以通过说这会减少竞争来阻止这种情况发生，而事实上确实如此。这导致了流媒体领域更多的整合，随着时间推移，无线市场的竞争也变得不那么激烈了。就好像所有这些都发生了一样。AT&T没有将钱花在扩展网络上，因为他们忙着把钱花在该死的《正义联盟》上。
Why? But that's the only other vertical merger case that we have. And in that case, the court in the 18th and 10th morning is constantly talking about how there's no precedent. Like this is the first one in 40 years. That's weird. So I would just take a beat like this is a big project to reset how we think about competition in this country.
为什么？但这是我们唯一的另一个垂直合并案例。在那个案子中，法庭在18号和10号早上一直在谈论没有先例。就像这是40年来的第一个案子一样，这很奇怪。所以我认为我们应该停下来思考一下，这是一个重大的项目，重新构建我们对这个国家竞争的看法。
It will the beginning of it will be more losing than winning. It's just inevitable. And maybe we need a new law, but like you get to the new law by a bunch of senators and congresspeople saying, well, the FTC does not have the tools it needs to create competition. We have to give them so many tools.
这将是一个开始，而开始的时候我们可能会付出更多的失败而不是成功。这是不可避免的。也许我们需要一项新法律，像是一群参议员和国会议员一起说，联邦贸易委员会没有必要创造竞争所需的工具。我们必须给他们提供许多工具。
My concern is we did have some protections for vertical integration. There was like the Paramount consent decree, which was from the 30s, which told like film studios that they couldn't own the theaters. And now they own the theaters again, they're just streaming. And that also in the Trump era got overturned because they were like, no, we don't need this anymore.
我的担忧是，我们确实有一些保护措施来防止垂直整合。比如，三十年代的帕拉蒙同意法案就规定了电影制片公司不能拥有影院。然而，现在他们又开始拥有影院了，只不过是通过流媒体的方式。而且，在特朗普时代，这项法令也被推翻了，他们认为不再需要这样的限制了。
So it's like the court seemed to be like, yeah, vertical integration, coolest thing in the world. So how do they go through the courts to stop something like Microsoft acquiring Activision or AT&T acquiring Warner Brothers? I just want to be clear.
所以就好像法院似乎认为，垂直整合是世界上最酷的事情。那么他们如何通过法院阻止微软收购动视暴雪或者AT&T收购华纳兄弟呢？我只是想弄清楚。
At this point, a workable antitrust law in this country would just be to make it illegal for AT&T to buy anything or for anyone to buy time Warner. Like you if that was just the rule, it might be fine. Like more people would keep their jobs. Yeah, that's like, and that's a way to measure like what's a good policy is like when you have mergers, people get laid off.
在这个阶段，一个在这个国家可行的反垄断法只需要禁止AT&T购买任何东西或任何人购买时代华纳就可以了。就像如果只有这个规定，可能还不错。就像更多人可以保住工作一样。是的，这就是，这也是衡量一个好政策的方法，当合并发生时，人们被裁员的情况得以衡量。
It ruins lives. Maybe some shareholders will make more money, but along the way, a bunch of like secretaries, like that redundant function, like your back offices merge and you like lay off your accounting department, right? Those are destructive actions for like thousands of people. If you just banned AT&T from buying stuff like more people would have kept their jobs like straight, like that's just a way to measure it.
这对人们的生活造成了毁灭性的影响。或许某些股东会赚更多的钱，但同时，大量类似秘书这样的职能冗余，你的后勤部门合并，你还要解雇会计部门，对成千上万的人来说是破坏性的行为。如果你只是禁止AT&T购买更多的东西，更多的人将保住他们的工作，这只是一种衡量的方式。
If you could ban anyone from buying time Warner, like AOL might still exist. Like I just wanted those things. Do you buy the logic that the FTC and even the judge in this case have said, which is basically just that the existence of cases like this and the fact that there is someone paying attention and willing to pick this fight is going to do a lot of the work all by itself?
如果你可以禁止任何人购买时代华纳，就像美国在线（AOL）可能仍然存在一样。就像我只是想要那些东西。你对联邦贸易委员会（FTC）甚至这个案件中的法官所说的逻辑有所认同吗？基本上，就是存在这样的案例以及有人关注并愿意参与这场斗争，这本身就会自动起到很大的作用，你认为这有道理吗？
Yeah. Because before, I think we spent a generation with companies just being like, no, what everyone at the FTC is asleep at the wheel. This is a non issue. We'll get anything through. We want to. And now the case for Alina Khan would be at least someone is willing to pick the fight and that's going to make fewer people want to be on the other side of it.
是的。因为在此之前，我认为我们花了一代人的时间，公司就像没有人关注一样，FTC（美国联邦贸易委员会）的人都在疏忽职守。这不是个问题。我们想要什么就能顺利实现。而现在，Alina Khan的案例至少说明有人愿意站出来打这场仗，这会让更少的人想要站在对立面。
I have two questions for you. Name one other commissioner of the FTC. No. I know the mall. I don't want to. I don't want to pick favorites. Name the previous chair of the FTC. Right? It's tough. Ronald Reagan. Her bird pooper. I don't know. It doesn't like she has a reputation and her reputation is that she thinks big mergers in consolidation are bad.
我有两个问题要问你。请告诉我另外一位联邦贸易委员会的委员的名字。不，我知道商场在哪里。我不想选择。我不想偏袒某个人。请告诉我之前的联邦贸易委员会主席的名字。对吗？这很难。罗纳德·里根。她的"鸟舍"。我不知道。看起来她的声誉不太好，她的声誉就是她认为大型兼并与整合是不好的。
Yeah. Maybe she'll win. Maybe she'll lose. But that is like a drastic change. Right. And I do want to be clear. Two things. One, I think she did a bad job arguing this case. I think the call of duty head fake. She just got lost in it. Two. I don't. The more I think about it, it's more like I don't care if Microsoft owns Activision. Oh, I do. Why? Because vertical as we saw with streaming vertical integration is bad. But like the actual bad outcome of that when Sony is dominant and Apple is not going to let anyone do cloud gaming anyways like because Sony is dominant today and they have call a duty today.
是的，也许她会赢，也许会输。但这就像是一个重大的变化。是的，我想要表达清楚两件事。第一，我认为她在辩论这个案件时做得不好。我认为那个"召唤使命"的假象欺骗了她，她迷失其中了。第二，事实并非如此。我越想越觉得，我不在乎微软是否拥有动视暴雪。哦，其实我在乎。为什么呢？因为就像我们在流媒体上看到的那样，垂直整合是有害的。但实际的坏结果是，索尼是主导者，而苹果也不会允许任何人进行云游戏，因为索尼是如今的主导者，他们拥有"召唤使命"。
Is there anything in that decision to stop Microsoft from saying, okay, Diablo four no longer works on PS five, which is the primary platform for it. Well, so now there's there's a lot of Phil Spencer running around saying that would be bad. There's all of this. And then on top of it, Microsoft is in third place. So like if the market's more competitive, is that bad? I mean, theoretically, that's it. If at any point, like this is all dependent on Microsoft being like, yeah, we're just good guys. We're fine with third place because we're keeping an open like we're altruism.
在那个决定中，有没有任何东西能阻止微软说“好吧，Diablo四不再在PS5上运行，尽管这是它的主要平台。”嗯，现在有很多菲尔·斯宾塞四处奔波说这样做是不好的。还有其他问题。此外，微软目前处于第三位。所以，如果市场更具竞争力，那样会糟糕吗？我是说从理论上讲，如果在任何时候，这一切都取决于微软是否会说“是的，我们只是好人。我们无所谓第三名，因为我们保持着开放和利他主义的态度。”
No, I don't think they're fine with third place. They're not if they flip out and then a call of duty exclusive after 10 years and then sales between the Xbox and PS five even out and the market is more competitive. Is that a bad? I don't know the answer to that question. Is the market more competitive if one of the largest gaming console makers in the world owns the majority of the studios because Activision Blizzard is just one of many studios they've acquired. They've been on a buying spree. They own most of the big studios like with the exception of things like EA, they own just about everything but after they acquire Activision Blizzard.
不，我认为他们对第三名并不满意。如果他们疯狂地翻脸，之后在10年后推出独占的使命召唤游戏，然后Xbox和PS5之间的销售达到平衡，市场更具竞争力。这是件坏事吗？我不知道答案。如果世界上最大的游戏主机制造商拥有大部分工作室，市场是否更具竞争力，因为Activision Blizzard只是他们收购的众多工作室之一。他们一直在大举收购。除了EA之类的例外，他们几乎拥有所有大的工作室，但在收购Activision Blizzard之后可能会有所变化。
But even in that case, Sony's still winning for now, but like, okay, so let's say even is out and Microsoft goes from third to first. That means the market's more competitive. And then they go from third to first and then they say, okay, it's been 10 years. All of duty is now exclusive Diablo five or six or whatever is now exclusive. If you want to play any of these games, you have to play them on an Xbox. And so now Sony has nothing, no leg to stand on because it's been 10 years. They bided their time and they're having a great time.
但即使是在那种情况下，索尼目前仍然处于领先地位，但是，好吧，假设排名不再重要，微软从第三位上升到第一位。这意味着市场更具竞争力。然后他们从第三位上升到第一位，然后他们说，好吧，已经过去10年了。《使命召唤》现在是独占的，《暗黑破坏神》五或六或其他的现在也是独占的。如果你想玩这些游戏，你只能在Xbox上玩。现在索尼就没有任何立足之地了，因为已经过去了10年。他们耐心等待并且过得很开心。
Like we saw this happen over and over with streaming streaming was like, yeah, we're going to acquire this stuff. We're going to do this vertical integration and then we're going to pull the rug out from under people and because it's financially expedient for us. And I'm just like, I don't trust companies to do what's best for the people. They do what's best for their bottom line and their bottom line does not always mean what's best for people, right? Right now it's working for Microsoft. Yeah, I don't think I don't think we're agreeing. I'm just saying that instinct to do its best for your bottom line is usually tempered by competition in the market.
就像我们反复看到的那样，流媒体行业经历了一次又一次类似的情况：他们会说，嗯，我们会收购这些内容。我们会进行垂直整合，然后我们会突然抽走别人的地毯，因为这样对我们的财务利益有利。但是我并不相信公司会为了人们的利益而行动，他们只会为了利润而行动，而利润并不总是意味着对人们最好的结果，对吧？目前来看，对于微软而言，这种做法是有效的。是的，我认为我们的观点不一致。我只是在说，公司追求自身利益的本能通常会受到市场竞争的限制。
You only have few choices like either I can set prices for every product in America, vote Patel, I'll be a great and benevolent king or you can have like actual market competition that people can vote with their dollars. And right now you kind of don't. Right. And I think that's the thing that I'm getting at is Microsoft is so far behind that if you want a new console, you kind of end up buying a PS5. Because they have exclusives. Sure. But if Microsoft flips it, that's why it's doing better is because it's got all the it's got Naughty Dog. And now Microsoft owns everybody that's not Naughty Dog.
你只有几个选择，要么我可以为美国的每个产品设定价格，要么投票给帕特尔，我会成为一个伟大而仁慈的国王，或者你可以拥有真正的市场竞争，让人们用他们的钱来投票。而现在，你们似乎没有这种选择。没错。我认为我所指的是，微软远远落后于其他公司，所以如果你想要一台新的游戏主机，你往往会选择购买PS5，因为它有独占游戏。当然了。但是如果微软扭转局面，它现在的表现更好是因为它拥有一切，除了Naughty Dog之外的所有游戏开发商，现在微软都拥有了。
But that's market competition. Like if Sony waits, sits on its ass for 10 years. Yeah. And then Call of Duty goes away and they're like whoops Microsoft like that is their fault. Like it's Sony is also a multi-billion dollar self-interest company. And that's all I'm getting at is like the harms here are hard to see and they're definitely more pronounced in cloud gaming and the FTC kind of blew it. But the bigger projects the FTC is to say like any antitrust enforcement is good and the laws should change.
但这就是市场竞争。就像如果索尼等待，懒得动弹10年。是的。然后《使命召唤》 消失了，他们就会说哎呀，这是微软的错。就像索尼也是一家价值数十亿美元的自私公司。我要表达的是，这里的危害很难看清，而且在云游戏领域更加明显，而联邦贸易委员会（FTC）有点弄巧成拙了。但FTC的主要任务是说，任何反垄断执法都是好的，法律应该做出改变。
And I think everyone is kind of missing that second turn that they were always walking into a loss because the law does not support their Lina cons theories for how this should work. And again, you can go listen to her on this show before she worked at the FTC talking about her theories. And it's basically like this kind of consolidation creates a ton of bad outcomes for consumers that aren't just measured in raw prices. Right.
我认为每个人都有点忽略了他们总是在走向失败的第二个转折点，因为法律不支持他们对于这种工作的理论。你可以去听听她在加入联邦贸易委员会之前在这个节目上讲述她的理论。基本上，这种整合为消费者带来了很多不良结果，不仅仅是以价格来衡量的。
So in that case, it sounds like what you're saying is it's not so much the loss that that's the problem. It's the fact that the FTC allowed itself to fall down this distraction of call of duty being the problem that is actually the thing that's going to pull it away from getting to where it was trying to go. Yeah, I think that's right. Okay. But at least we get call of duty call of duty on the switch. Yeah, it's great animated. It's like call of duty, but you're Yoshi. I think a real problem for me is that I do not play call of duty. So it's like whatever you can have it. Phil, if you're listening, I want to run it on the homepage. Okay. We'll sign the deal. There's a call of duty at the verge.com. Love it. All right. We should take a break. We'll be right back.
那么在这种情况下，听起来你说的是问题并不是丢失，而是美国联邦贸易委员会（FTC）允许自己陷入了把责任归咎于《使命召唤》的误解中，而这实际上会妨碍它实现目标。是的，我认为你说得对。好的。但至少我们在Switch上能玩到《使命召唤》。是的，它的动画很棒。就像是《使命召唤》，但你是尤西。对我来说真正的问题是，我不玩《使命召唤》，所以你可以留着它。菲尔，如果你在听，我想把它放在首页上。好的，我们来签署协议。在theverge.com上有《使命召唤》。太棒了。好的，我们该休息一下。马上回来。
Okay, we're back. David is just waving his computer around in the studio. What is happening? So a thing that happened about 20 minutes ago in this podcast is I spilled one whole pomple and was the cray just all over the computer. This is why we're not in the office. Turn it upside down. I did for a while. It was the key is to just make a tent and put it on the floor. And that makes everything better. It luckily Liam, our producer brought me what I would say is several rolls of paper towels that I have now used. Put it in some rice. Liam, get a bag of rice. Really big bag of rice. The most astounding part is it seems fine. I think the software updated it. But now I'm just on back. It fits suddenly like lights on fire while we're sitting here.
好的，我们回来了。大卫刚刚在工作室里激动地摇着他的电脑。发生了什么事？大约20分钟前，在这个播客中发生了一件事，我不小心把整个苹果汁撒到了电脑上，一切都弄得乱七八糟。这就是我们没在办公室的原因。我把它倒过来了一段时间，关键是搭个帐篷把它放在地板上，这样就好了。幸运的是，制片人利亚姆给了我几卷纸巾，我现在都用完了。放点米吸水。利亚姆，拿一个大袋子的米。最令人惊讶的是，它好像没问题。我觉得软件可能更新了。但现在，我又回来了。突然间它像着了火一样。我们就坐在这里。
That's why and I will probably have to leave briefly, but I'm so now it's going to make for great TV. Listen, did I almost burn down the building when I tried to poke a battery for a video at the Wall Street Journal? Yes, I did. And this can be this can be found to make a GIF of it.
这就是为什么我可能不得不暂时离开，但我很确定这将为电视节目增添趣味。听着，当我试图戳《华尔街日报》的电池来录制视频时，我差点引发大火。没错，这事可被记录下来制作成GIF动画。
All right. Friends, I have a stat for you. Okay. Hit me with it. The average blockbuster store had between eight and 10,000 videos in it. And then we had 7,000 videos, Netflix, 3,600 movies. In moving to the streaming area, the amount of choice on the platforms is dwindling. Shrink. Yep. Which is the opposite of what people think. I bet if you gave those two numbers to a person and was like, which is which, I bet almost everyone would say Netflix is the bigger number. Yep. But then you asked them to go find a movie they remember from their childhood on Netflix and be like, oh, this is garbage. Yeah. I'm just saying, pump up the volume. Not available on any streaming service. Make it happen. It was definitely a block. You had that ready to you did not just look that up. I want everyone to know. Niela, I did not just Google to confirm that. That is a fact he knew before this podcast began. I think he just knows that at all times, like if it does appear. Every morning, he like, it's an email. His pump up the volume stream. I think it just comes to him in the night. Like he wakes up and he's like, oh, it's on Disney Plus now. Let's go. No way they would ever put pump up the volume and D plus. That's not even a chance. Maybe if they can solve the music licensing issues. The D plus having a movie where A, there's boobs and B, Christian Slater is like fighting the FCC by saying swear words. Just like right next to Moana. That's just not happening. All right. That's my stat for you. But to Alex's point, like you move to the streaming world and your choice gets less and like, that's a real stat about blockbuster, which I think is fascinating.
好的。朋友们，我有一个统计数据要告诉你们。好的。快告诉我。一个普通的Blockbuster视频店平均有8000到10000部视频。而现在我们有7000个Netflix的视频和3600部电影。转向流媒体领域后，平台上的选择量正在减少。缩水了。没错。这与人们的想法相反。如果你给一个人这两个数字，然后问他，哪个更大，我打赌几乎每个人都会说Netflix的数字更大。没错。但是然后你让他们去Netflix上找一部他们童年时记得的电影，他们可能会说，噢，这太糟糕了。是的。我只是说，把音量调大点。没有流媒体平台有这部电影。让它出现吧。他肯定是早就知道有这部电影的。他一定没有刚查过。我希望大家都知道。Niela，在这个播客开始之前，我并没有刚刚搜索确认这件事。这是他本来就知道的。我觉得他一直都知道，如果它出现。每天早上他都会收到一封邮件，里面写着《放声大唱》的流媒体。我觉得它就是在他睡觉的时候出现的。他醒来后就会说，哦，它现在在Disney Plus上了。走吧。他们绝对不会把《放声大唱》放在Disney Plus上。这几乎不可能。除非他们能解决音乐许可问题。让一部电影里， A、有裸体场景， B、克里斯蒂安·斯莱特与联邦通信委员会斗争，说脏话。就在《瓦力》旁边。那是不可能的。好的。这是我的统计数据。但是根据亚历克斯的观点，从传统租赁转向流媒体世界后，选择变少了，这是一个真实的统计数据，我觉得非常有趣。
All right. Let's talk about a gadget. There's a bunch of a gadget talk about. There's a new foldable from honor. There's some iMac rumors. I think we should start with a nothing phone two. Is it in parentheses? In my head, it's in parentheses because whenever I get a new iPhone, it's always like iPhone four. And that's how it shows up on all the Bluetooth. And this is the nothing phone two. It is in parentheses. Our style guide says that it is not in parentheses and I love our style guide for that. But if you ask nothing, it is in parentheses.
好的。让我们谈谈一个小工具。有许多小工具可以谈论。有一个来自荣耀的新折叠手机。还有关于iMac的一些谣言。我认为我们应该从一部nothing手机2开始。它是用括号括起来的吗？在我的脑中，它是用括号括起来的，因为每当我有一部新iPhone时，它总是像iPhone四这样显示在所有的蓝牙设备上。而这部nothing手机2是用括号括起来的。我们的风格指南说不应该用括号括起来，我非常喜欢我们的风格指南因为这一点。但如果你问nothing，它是用括号括起来的。
This thing is like a vibes phone. It's like the first true vibes phone. Yeah. I think that's exactly right. It's like, I don't know, the nothing phone one was like cool because it was new, right? And I like, I root for every company that wants to make phones because we need more good phones in the world that are not made by Apple or Samsung. And like we've been talking about competition is a good thing. And if someone could figure out how to sell phones that isn't Samsung or Apple, that would be terrific. But it was like it was a new phone, right? Like it had some weird performance stuff. The camera wasn't amazing. The battery life was kind of, yeah, like it felt like a first phone. And this one, Alice and Johnson reviewed it for us and basically came out of it saying, like, look, it's a very good phone. It has a bunch of big ideas that either work for your brain or they don't. It's big on like, we want to give you tools to help you use your phone a little bit less. And one of those tools is making all the icons look the same, which is weird. It's like, what if it was harder to find the Instagram app? Like I'm not. That's a good thing.
这个东西就像是一部“vibes”手机。它就像是第一部真正的“vibes”手机一样。嗯，我觉得这完全正确。就像，我不知道，第一个手机就很酷，因为它是新的，对吧？而且我支持每个想要生产手机的公司，因为我们需要更多优秀的手机，而不是由苹果或三星制造。正如我们一直在谈论的，竞争是件好事。如果有人能够找到一种不是三星或苹果的方式来销售手机，那将是很棒的。但是，第一个手机确实是新的手机，对吧？就像它有一些奇怪的性能问题。相机并不是很出色，电池续航时间也有点糟糕，就像一个初代手机一样。而这部手机，艾丽斯·约翰逊为我们做了评论，基本上她认为，这是一部非常好的手机。它有很多的大想法，要么对你的大脑有效，要么不行。它非常注重帮助你更少地使用手机这个理念，其中一个工具是让所有的应用图标看起来都一样，这很奇怪。就像，如果找到Instagram应用变得更困难，这并不是一件好事。
So that's the thing, right? Like how you. It's good. It's aesthetically pleasing. Oh, it's beautiful. The home screen of the nothing phone is one of the best looking home screens I've ever seen. It's gorgeous. It has the, the glyph thing on the back. So if you put it down on the table face down, it has these lights that show up that will do some new stuff. It has the little charging indicator. So like the light at the bottom will fill up as it charges. It has a new countdown thing that if you have a timer on, it'll actually sort of decrease the light as the timer counts down. There are these nifty things like do any of these add up to like a transformational idea about smartphones? Like no, but there's some cool ideas here. And I think that's what you mean by calling this a vibes phone, right? Like it's. If the things about it make you feel something, awesome. You're going to love this phone and be super happy because it does all the phone things pretty well, unlike the phone one. But it's still like, is this the future of smartphones? Like there's really nothing here that screams. Yes. You know what? Every time we've just come to a place with smartphones where that question is kind of like saying like, is this the future of shoes? It's like, it's just like doesn't. What are you talking about? like, because of the platform split, you're kind of always like, will the nothing phone to capture share from the iPhone? And it's like, that doesn't matter.
那就是这个意思，对吧？就像你说的一样。它很好，很美观。噢，它很漂亮。这部无物手机的主屏幕是我见过的最好看的主屏幕之一。它真美。它背面有这个图形符号。如果你将它反面朝下放在桌子上，会出现一些灯光，会展示一些新东西。它还有一个小充电指示灯。当它充电时，底部的灯光会逐渐亮起。它还有一个新的倒计时功能，如果你设置了一个定时器，灯光会随着倒计时逐渐变暗。虽然这些都不是关于智能手机的改变性想法，但这里有一些很酷的想法。我想这就是你所说的称之为“氛围手机”的意思，对吧？就是说，如果它能让你感到某种情绪，那太棒了。如果你喜欢这部手机，并且对它非常满意，因为它在所有电话功能方面都做得很好，不像那个电话一样。但同时，这是智能手机的未来吗？实际上，这里真的没有什么能够大声呼喊“是的”。你知道吗？每次我们都会陷入这样的境地，就像问“这是鞋子的未来吗？”就像是说“你在说什么？”因为由于平台分割，你总是会想，“无物手机能从iPhone那里抢夺份额吗？”但这并不重要。
Like if you're the Android ecosystem, you now get to pick from like a bunch of different vibes, right? You can pick a Galaxy Fold and like run subway servers next to TikTok, next to Discord and like just fully live in that zone, which is crazy, or you can like get this phone, which is like very chill and has lights on the back. And I think it's just like a neat place for phones to be in, at least on the Android side of the equation, where you can almost buy a mood or buy a style. And yeah, it's only because this one has a reasonably good camera and like it does phone things well. Whereas I think on the iPhone side of the house, it's kind of like, boy, that camera bump got even bigger. And it's like, that's fine. And that's fine. But it's just at least on the Android side of the equation, you can now kind of pick a style, which is interesting. And it hasn't always been the case.
如果你是Android生态系统，现在可以从各种不同的风格中选择了，对吧？你可以选择Galaxy Fold，然后在TikTok旁边和Discord旁边运行地铁服务器，完全沉浸在那个领域，这太疯狂了。或者你可以选择这款手机，非常轻松，并且背部还有灯光。我认为这是手机目前所处的一个不错的位置，至少在Android的一方面上，你几乎可以根据心情或风格来购买。是的，这仅仅是因为这款手机有相当不错的相机，并且在进行手机操作时表现良好。相比之下，在iPhone方面，摄像头凸起更大了。这没关系，这也没关系。但至少在Android方面，你现在可以选择一种风格，这很有意思。而且这并不一直是这样的。
Yeah, so I just like a few hours ago sat in this studio wearing this shirt and talk to Carl Pei, the CEO of Nothing. That's going to be our next Wednesday show. But one of the things he kept saying that I thought was really interesting is kind of to your point, Eli, that like, we're sort of at a point now where like, if you just want a phone, this is especially true in the US, if you want a phone and you have no follow up questions, the answer is an iPhone, right? It's like it is sort of it is the phonest of phones at this point. And Samsung is like kind of there on the Android side, but it has some weird bad ideas and some wacky ideas and some good ideas. But Android is the place where there should be lots of different ideas about what a smartphone can like be and do and how it can work and where finally it seems like sort of turning into that era. And you mentioned like the honor phone that the foldable thing is starting to happen and the tech is getting better really fast. The flip phones are starting to be competitive. It's like there are finally a bunch of different kinds of phones you can buy in the Android ecosystem.
是的，我就在几个小时前坐在这个工作室里穿着这件衬衫，与诺丁（Nothing）的首席执行官卡尔·佩（Carl Pei）进行了对话。这将成为我们下周三的节目。但他说的一件我认为非常有趣的事情是，正如你所说的，埃利，现在我们似乎正处于这样一个阶段，如果你只想要一部手机，尤其是在美国，如果你没有后续问题，答案就是iPhone，对吧？它就是目前最好的手机。三星在安卓方面也是如此，但它有一些奇怪的坏主意，一些疯狂的主意，也有一些好的主意。但安卓是一个可以有关于智能手机的各种不同想法以及功能、使用方式的地方，而现在看起来终于进入了这个时代。你提到了华为的那款折叠手机，这种可折叠技术的发展速度非常快。翻盖手机开始具有竞争力。现在安卓生态系统中终于可以购买到各种不同类型的手机了。
My issue with the Nothing Phone 2 is it doesn't push on any of those ideas far enough to really feel big. Yeah. Can anyone push on those ideas? Like one of the reasons Samsung and Apple have become so big is because they were the ones that had the resource to do things like make the camera not garbage. Right. And everybody, nobody else had the like you need a lot of really good engineers to do that and nobody else could afford that. So like it seems like most of the big kind of ways to make the phones interesting are expensive and nothing is like, okay, well we're just going to go for the interesting cosmetic stuff because that's a ring light on the back of your phone to probably cost them five bucks to stick it in there. Right. It's like a thing they can do. Yeah. Instead of pouring $10 billion into camera R&D. Yeah. Right. But like all things, even camera R&D got commoditized. Right. You can write like this phone I think is an example of it per Alice in three like it's fine. Yeah. In a way that I think when we were sort of in a cusp of computational photography, like you needed the money and now you're like, or I can just buy it off the shelf because it's a commodity. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And that's even true. Like the nothing fun has the Snapdragon eight plus gen one, which is technically a last year chip, but it's a very good chip. It does all the things you would need a smartphone chip to do. It's pretty efficient. It's pretty fast. Like that stuff just is widely available now to your point, which is, which is really cool. But the weird central tension of all of that is that all this stuff is so commoditized. But there are so many people in the market that it can still be hard to get in because even though everyone is out here building better cameras than ever that you can buy, there's so much more competition to buy those cameras that small companies have a hard time getting to these new supposedly commoditized things because like Foxconn is just tapped making all the phones for all the other companies making phones. And so it's just, it's a weird thing where it's like the stuff is all there. It's more accessible to more people than ever. And yet it's still kind of on the other side of the wall unless you're a really big company.
我的问题与无物手机2是它对这些想法的推进程度不够，无法产生真正的巨大感。是的。有谁能够推动这些想法呢？像三星和苹果之所以变得如此大，是因为它们拥有资源去做一些像让相机变得更好而不是垃圾的事情。是的。而其他人没有像他们那样的资源，你需要很多优秀的工程师才能做到这一点，其他人负担不起。所以大多数使手机有趣的大方法似乎都是昂贵的，而无物手机就像，好吧，我们只会选择有趣的外观设计，因为在手机背面加一个环形灯光可能只需要花费他们5美元。对。这是他们能做的事情。是的。而不是把100亿美元投入相机研发。是的。但是就像所有事物一样，即使相机研发也开始被大众化了。对。你可以写道，这款手机我认为就是一个很好的例子，不错。在算法摄影正处于关键时期时，你需要花钱，现在呢，我只需购买它，因为它已经成为一种商品了。是的。我的意思是，即使是无物手机也搭载了骁龙888一代芯片，虽然技术上是去年的芯片，但它是一款非常好的芯片。它能够完成智能手机所需的所有任务。它相当高效，速度也相当快。现在这些东西已经广泛可得了，正如你所说的那样，这是非常酷的。但所有这些事物的奇怪矛盾在于，尽管所有人都在不断推出比以往更好的相机，但购买这些相机的竞争对手如此之多，因此小公司很难通过这些被认为是大众化的新技术。就像富士康已经全身心地为其他手机制造公司制造手机一样，这真是一种奇怪的现象。所以总的来说，这些技术已经非常普遍，比以往更多的人可以获得，但除非你是一家非常大的公司，否则仍然很难进入这个市场。
Yeah. Was just, I think how you end up with we're still, we're still here talking about Apple, Samsung and nothing. Yeah. You know what I mean? And like nothing is connected to much like they have the ability to capture some of the resources in a big company just cause the way because Carl pay basically. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. I mean, like it has LED lights in the back. I want it. The home screen is so, so, so good looking. They're doing this monochrome thing with the like old timey pixelated text. It just, it just looks so good and it makes me so happy. And it's like the first Android phone where they're like, what if we actually gave like one whole shit about what it looked like when you turned it on? And I don't feel like there's any other Android manufacturer out there doing that. And it makes me happy that nothing is doing that. Yeah.
是的。我只是觉得，我们仍然在谈论苹果、三星之类的东西，什么都没有改变。你知道我的意思吗？就好像没有什么东西真的相关，他们有能力捕捉到一些大公司的资源，只是因为卡尔的交易。是的。是的，很酷。我的意思是，它背面有LED灯。我想要它。主屏幕看起来非常、非常、非常好看。他们在用像素化的老派文字做这种单色的东西。它看起来太棒了，让我感到非常开心。这是第一款安卓手机，他们在里面真正重视开机时的外观。我觉得没有其他安卓制造商在做这个。这让我很开心。是的。
You know what it kind of looks like? It kind of looks like the books, Paul, that was also announced this week, the six inch Android phone. I knew it was coming. It's $250. And I knew it was coming. Yeah. I was sneaking it in. I was, I was waiting for the right moment and, and the nothing phone gave it to me.
你知道吗，这有点像是这周宣布的那本书，波尔，一个六英寸的安卓手机。我早就知道它会推出的。它售价250美元。我早就知道它会推出。是的。我一直在悄悄地期待着，等待着正确的时机，而无名的手机却给了我这个机会。
But yeah, this thing is, I think this thing is gorgeous for the same reason that I want the other one is like, I something about that just monochrome sleek design. I'm like, yeah, all right. I don't need colors. I got a TV for colors. It's a, it's a stance I would really like you to keep on this show for a very long time. And you could just, all the colors I need in life are satisfied by my television is, is a, is an Alex crayons belief that I feel like you should carry on for a long time.
是的，我认为这个东西很漂亮，原因和我想要另一个东西的原因一样，那种单色简约的设计给我一种特殊的感觉。我认为，是的，没错。我不需要颜色。我有电视可以看颜色。这是一个态度，我希望你在这个节目中一直保持下去。我觉得我对生活所需要的所有颜色都已经满足了，这是我一直坚持的信仰，希望你能一直传承下去。
It's true. It's true. My gadget that I was inevitably going to sneak in this conversation is that Telly has started shipping the free TV. Yes. Yeah. It's real. Did you guys think it was real? I knew it was like, I mean, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, I knew it's like not a hard product to ship. It's, it's a television. It's a TV and they ship it to you for free. They didn't have to turn on stripe. They were just like, here you go.
没错，没错。我不可避免要偷偷插入这个对话的小玩意儿就是Telly已经开始免费发放电视了。是的，对。是真的。你们觉得它是真的吗？我知道它就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，就像，我知道它不是一个难以发货的产品。它是电视。他们免费给你发货。他们不需要启用条纹支付。他们就直接给你。
How much are they spending on the TVs? Like, or on the shipping of the TVs? Because anytime I had to review a TV, that was always enough fair. Oh, yeah. Expensive one for whatever the company shipping it to be was. They had to capitulate. Did you read this? They had to capitulate because it, you know, it doesn't have any streaming. Software built into it, which is just intrusive advertising software. So they were just like, screw it. Here's a Google TV dongle. Yes. Like in the box. I mean, everything about this is great. I cannot wait for people to get it. I hope it's just rattling around in there. Like it's not even its own package. It's like taped on the side.
他们在电视上花了多少钱？比如，还有电视的运费？因为每次我要评价一个电视的时候，这总是足够公平的。哦，是的。无论是运送到哪家公司，贵的总是会让他们妥协。你看到这个了吗？他们必须妥协，因为这款电视没有任何内置的流媒体软件，只是令人讨厌的广告软件。所以他们就像，算了吧。给你一个Google电视棒吧。对，就在盒子里面。我的意思是，这款产品的所有方面都很棒。我迫不及待地希望人们得到它。我希望它在盒子里晃来晃去，甚至可以不用单独包装，就直接贴在盒子的一边。
It's sad to me that the internet's like tearing itself apart right now. Like, I'm very happy about it for some reasons. But like, that Reddit is in turmoil and like, no, and Twitter threads, like, there's a version of the internet where immediately disassembling this thing and figuring out how it worked would have been all we all did together for a minute. You know, and like, I just can't wait for people to get this thing. If you get one, please email us. We want to know everything. Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you have a telly, I am not allowing one in my home.
对我来说，互联网现在的状况真让人伤心。是的，有些方面让我很开心。但是，Reddit的混乱局面，还有那些Twitter上的长篇回帖，就好像互联网正在自己撕裂开来。有一种互联网的版本是指，大家一起花点时间来解构并弄清楚它是如何运作的。你知道的，我迫不及待地希望人们能够理解这个东西。如果你了解其中的一部分，请给我们发电子邮件。我们想要了解所有的细节。啊，对了。如果你有一个电视机，我是不会允许它进入我的家里的。
But if you get one, you know, let me know. Let me know on the side. I'm not going to be able to get one in my home. Yeah. Call the hotline and tell us about your telly and we can change your voice and play it on the podcast if that's what you want. I am desperate to know more about this thing. I think I continue to think it's actually an extremely good idea. I think it's going to work. I think it's going to be very successful. I also think it is hilarious nonsense in the best possible way.
但是如果你得到了一个，你知道的，告诉我一下。私下告诉我。我无法在家里弄到一个。是的。打电话给我们的热线，告诉我们关于你的电视的情况，如果你愿意，我们可以改变你的声音并在播客上播放出来。我渴望了解更多关于这个东西的信息。我认为这实际上是一个非常好的主意。我认为它会成功。我还认为这是一种极好的荒谬，非常有趣。
Do we know what panels they're using? Like where they're sourced. Who cares? It's a free television, Alex. It has all the colors I need. What are you talking about? I need to know if there's a Halloween. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing is very, very good.
我们知道他们使用的电视面板是什么吗？比如说它们的来源。谁在乎呢？这是一台免费的电视，亚历克斯。它有我需要的全部颜色。你在说什么？我需要知道是否有万圣节特别节目。是的。我的意思是，整个节目非常非常好。
Other gadgets, there's a rumor that Apple is going to do a 32 inch iMac. Yes. I'll buy this thing in a heartbeat. I am so close to always buying a Mac mini. Every time there's one on sale and there's one on sale lately all the time, especially the M1, which is all that I need because all I would run one app to podcast, I have one and it's wonderful. I'm always so close to buying one. I'm like, can I get a buy display? And then you end up in that display thing where I buy cheap one, but then I'm me and I can't buy a cheap one. I'm like crap, I'm not going to buy a studio. It's like 32. Just give it to me. You spend so much money. It's great.
还有其他的装备，有传言说苹果要推出一台32英寸的iMac。是的，我会毫不犹豫地购买这个东西。我离购买Mac mini非常近了。每次有一台打折的时候，而最近总是有打折的，尤其是M1，这就是我所需要的，因为我只需要运行一个播客的应用程序，我已经有一个了，很棒。我总是离购买它很近。我在想，我能不能买一个廉价的显示器？然后你会陷入购买廉价显示器的困境中，但我就是我，我不能买一个廉价的。我就像，天啊，我不会去买一个工作室。就要32英寸吧，直接给我。你花了这么多钱，真是太棒了。
Yeah. Monitor. That's the other place I get my color. You're like, I vary. You should start like a wellness trend. Yeah. You just have color on your TVs and your anything bigger than 27 inches, you can have color on it. Anything smaller? No, black and white iPad, like a chroma diet. That's like the TikTok crema fest. Gwyneth Paltrow just trademarked that while you were talking. No, goop. Don't steal our idea. Gwyneth. Don't steal. I'm watching you Gwyneth.
是的，显示器。那是我获取颜色的另一个地方。你看起来变幻莫测。你应该开创一个健康趋势。是的，你只需要在你的电视上添加颜色，而且屏幕尺寸大于27英寸的设备，都可以显示彩色。而小于27英寸的设备呢？不行，像是黑白的iPad，就像是一种色彩饮食。就像TikTok的crema节日一样。在你说话的时候，Gwyneth Paltrow刚刚注册了这个商标。不行，Goop，不要抄袭我们的想法。Gwyneth，不要偷窃。我在看着你，Gwyneth。
The 32 inch iMac I think is super exciting. If we get a 32 inch iMac before we get a 27 inch iMac, I'm going to be furious because the 27 inch iMac is a perfect product and the fact that it doesn't exist is so stupid and bad. And a 24 inch iMac is a dumb idea, but a 27 inch iMac is an amazing idea. But I also think there is this rumor.
我觉得32英寸的iMac非常令人兴奋。如果我们在拥有27英寸的iMac之前就能拿到32英寸的iMac，我会非常愤怒，因为27英寸的iMac是一款完美的产品，它竟然不存在，太愚蠢了。而24英寸的iMac是个愚蠢的主意，但27英寸的iMac是一个惊人的主意。但是我也听说了这个谣言。
I don't know if we've heard about it since like January, but there was this rumor at the beginning of the year that Apple is starting to think about smart display stuff and like you look at like standby and the lock screen widgets and there's like this thing starting to happen where Apple is like what can your screens be when you're not using them. And I think the idea of like Apple basically doing that with my computer monitor is very exciting to me. Like make that the hub of all of my stuff because it's a big screen that just sits on my desk and I'm near it all the time. Like I love that.
我不知道我们是否从一月份开始就听说了这件事情，但在年初有一个传言，说苹果开始考虑智能显示设备，比如待机界面和锁屏小部件，你会发现这种事情开始发生，苹果好像在思考当你不使用屏幕时，它们可以作为什么。我认为苹果将我的电脑显示器变成这样的想法非常令人兴奋。让它成为我所有事物的中心，因为它是一块一直放在我的桌子上的大屏幕，我时刻都在它附近。我喜欢这样。
I assume this thing will cost $67,000 and I will not buy it. What if it's the iMac Pro? Remember like if we just get that again, that's the 32 inch. You want a big screen? It's can't be cheap. That's very, see this is a problem. It's like I want to buy just an m1 Mac and like a beautiful display that's not expensive or isn't a panel from 1985 which is a current studio display. Can I interest you in the Spectre 4K monitor that I bought that just randomly turns off three times a day for no reason? I see I can't live that life man. I'm too old now. I refuse. I got gray hair in the beard. Only the finest of displays.
我假设这个东西要花费67,000美元，我不会买它。要是这就是iMac Pro呢？记得，如果我们再次选择那个，它是32英寸的。你想要个大屏幕吗？那可不会便宜的。这真的是个问题。就好像我想买一个m1的Mac，再配一个不贵又漂亮的显示屏，而不是一个1985年的屏幕。我能介绍你一下我买的Spectre 4K显示器吗？它一天会无缘无故地随机关掉三次。我可受不了那样的生活。我现在年纪大了。我拒绝了。我胡子上都有灰白色了，只要最好的显示器。
When I break my chroma fasted. I only chroma between noon and eight p.m. I do a 16-8 chroma fast. All right. All this color is exhausted me. I got to take a chroma fast. We're back. By the way, did you know when I was in high school I stage managed over 70 productions of Joseph and the amazing tech in college. We've got 100% true. We'll be right back everybody.
当我中断我对彩色的禁食时，我只在中午到晚上八点之间接触彩色。我进行16-8的彩色禁食。好的，这种色彩让我筋疲力尽。我得进行一次彩色禁食。我们回来了。顺便说一下，你知道吗，当我还在高中时，我在大学里负责了70多次《约瑟夫与神奇科技》的舞台管理。我们100%真实。我们马上回来。
We're back. I have so many questions. We've got something to talk. No lightning round. I'm just going to talk about Joseph. All right. I'm just going to tell this one. There's so many stories embedded in this. So I was like a theater tech nerd kid. This should be very obvious. Super off-brand for Neil. And so it's like summer in Wisconsin in the 90s. My theater nerd friends and I'll just like descend on the Racine Theater Guild, which is mounting a production of Joseph and the amazing tech in college. This is true happening. I don't know how to describe all the things that happen there.
我们回来了。我有很多问题要问。我们有些事情要谈论。没有限时回答。我只想谈论约瑟夫。另外，还有很多故事在其中。所以，我就像一个剧院技术迷般的孩子。这一点对于尼尔来说非常明显。那时候是90年代的威斯康辛州的夏天。我和我那些剧院迷的朋友们就会蜂拥前往里辛戏剧协会，他们正在排演《约瑟夫与奇妙的梦街科技大厅》。这是真实的事情。我不知道该如何描述那里所发生的一切。
But rest assured there's a scene in this Andrew Luever musical where Joseph and his brothers have to destroy a goat. Are you aware of this? The whole thing that happens in the show. And they're seeing theater guilders theater in the round. So there's a VOMS on the side of the stage. So to get the goat off the stage, you couldn't build the normal things that you would build. So I took our remote controlled truck and disassembled it and built a goat on top of it. And we had a remote controlled goat that this is like one of my highlight of my youth. That's legitimately like peak knee-like. You drive in? Yeah, it would like speed up the side of the stage. And then they would like rip its legs off and like, you know, he would sing about how sad he was or whatever. And we'd drive the disembodied goat down. I think one time in the many of these many shows, because we're like teenagers, we were like, go out and party after every single one of these things. Of course. I forgot to plug the, you know, the old school RC battery back in its charger. So the fucking kid would come back down off the stage, which is like, oh. And yeah, that thing just got kicked. Straight up dance catch on stage. This really feels like the adult version of Neelite needs to disassemble his Ford Raptor and just turn it into a robot goat. That's your weekend plan. Little project.
但请放心，在这个安德鲁·吕维尔音乐剧中，有一个场景是约瑟夫和他的兄弟们必须摧毁一只山羊。你知道这件事吗？整个剧情发生在环形剧院里。舞台的一侧有一个VOMS设施。所以为了将山羊从舞台上拿下来，你不能建造通常的东西。于是我拆了我们的遥控卡车，然后在上面建了一只山羊。我们有一只遥控山羊，这是我青年时期的一个高潮之一。那真的是我生命的巅峰时刻。你驾驶着它吗？是的，它会加速通过舞台的一侧。然后他们会撕下它的腿，然后他会唱一些悲伤的歌曲之类的。然后我们就把这个没有身体的山羊开走了。在这些演出中的许多次中，因为我们是青少年，每次演出后我们都会出去参加聚会。当然。我忘记给这个古老的遥控电池充电器插上插头。所以该该死的孩子会从舞台上下来，就像是哦。然后，那个东西被踢飞了。直接在舞台上感到毫无节制。这真的感觉像是成年版的尼莱特需要拆解他的福特猛禽，然后将其变成机器山羊。这就是你的周末计划。小项目而已。
I hadn't thought about that until I crawl my fast. I'm going to cry. All right. Be that goat. Honestly, punted little robot goat. Has there ever been a better mascot for the verge than a little robot? Go in an oddly Christian musical ring by Andrew. I don't know. Well, it's a good.
直到我爬行得很快，我都没有想过这个。我要哭了。好吧，就当它是只山羊吧。说实话，这只小机器山羊真是很合适作为“边缘”这个平台的吉祥物。安德鲁创作了一个奇怪的基督教音乐铃声。我不知道。嗯，挺不错的。
All right. It's a lightning. Yeah. Prands. You should start because as we've been talking, there has been massive. And you use the world of entertainment. Yes, as we were talking, SAG declared that starting Friday at midnight, they're on strike. So they are officially, if you're listening to this, SAG is on strike. They're picketing. This is the first time both SAG and the writer's skill, the WGA were both on strike since 1960. So it's been a while. Like WGA goes on strike at the drop of a hat, 11 for it. But SAG usually doesn't. We should know a series of escalating disclosures here.
好吧，这是一道闪电。对，Prands.你应该开始了，因为我们一直在谈论的时候，已经有了大规模的。你在娱乐界使用这个词。是的，正如我们之前谈到的，SAG宣布从本周五午夜开始罢工。所以，如果你正在听这个的话，SAG正在罢工。他们正在举行抗议。这是自1960年以来SAG和编剧协会WGA都罢工的第一次。所以已经有一段时间了。WGA很容易随时罢工，11场，一蹴而就。但是SAG通常不会这样做。我们应该在这里逐步披露一系列事情。
I know. I wanted to see how far I could get before you interrupted with disclosures. Well, I think once you get to WGA strikes the drop of hat, I think we have to disclose our newsroom, wonderful people unionized with WGA. They're great. We love them. I'm a member. Yeah. Crands in it. Great. We're fine. But we should disclose that. We make television shows with Netflix and HBO. I'm the executive producer of the Netflix show and then Comcast with Trans NBC. The investor, the company, all of them are on the one side of the table or the other. And currently none of them are making anything as you're listening because all the actors and the writers are on strike.
我知道。我想看看在你插话之前我能走多远。嗯，我想一旦我们谈到WGA罢工，我们就必须披露一下我们的新闻编辑室，那里的员工都加入了WGA工会。他们都很棒，我们很喜欢他们。我也是会员。对，克兰兹也是，很厉害。我们没问题。但是我们应该披露一下，我们与Netflix和HBO合作制作电视节目。我是Netflix节目的执行制片人，然后还有康卡斯特与Trans NBC合作。那个投资者公司，它们都在谈判桌的一边或另一边。而且目前因为演员和作家都在罢工，他们都没有制作任何内容。
Well, and this is also happening as there was this big deadline story in which a bunch of unnamed studio executives basically said, not even basically said in as many words, we are just going to wait out the writers until they lose their homes and then they're going to have to come back to the table and we're going to win. It's incredibly stupid. And there was apparently some back room.
好的，这件事也正在发生，因为有一个很大的截止日期故事，在这个故事中，一群不愿透露姓名的制片厂高管基本上表示，甚至不用这么说，我们只需等待作家们失去住所，然后他们将不得不回到谈判桌前，而我们将获胜。这太荒谬了。显然还有一些幕后的操作。
This is not like a dumb thing. An executive set off the top of their head. There was some like back room strategizing among studio executives apparently who decided to say all this stuff to a reporter who was going to put it into a story as if it was like a negotiating move. And instead, I think it is to the extent that you can move things even more against a bunch of billionaires who are mad at writers for wanting to have homes. It has shifted it even further against the billionaires who don't want writers to have homes. It's really something.
这并不是一件傻事。一位高管凭空说出了这些话。显然，在工作室高管之间有一些背后的策划，他们决定向一位记者说出所有这些，并将其作为一种谈判举动发布到一篇报道中。然而，我认为这更加偏向那些对作家想要拥有住房感到愤怒的亿万富翁，即使你能够改变事情的走向，让这种偏向变得更加明显。这真的是一件了不起的事情。
Yeah, it backfired terrifically. There are rumors that there's like recording of the video call of all the producers arguing about the deadline story after it went up, which if you have that hit me up. I would love to see it. Kran's posted the phrase and I quote, this is my peepee tape. I must see it. It is. Go out to the very chest, everyone. I think that's the fastest segue from Andrew Lloyd Webber to peepee tape in media history. That's a piece of thesis for you. Breaking records here.
没错，这个计划可真是搞砸了。有传言说，在截至日期的新闻发布后，所有制片人的视频通话中都有他们争论的录像，如果你有这个录像，请告诉我。我很想看一看。克兰斯发帖说：“这是我的小jj录像带。我一定要看。”这可真是让人大跌眼镜，大家。我觉得这是安德鲁·劳埃德·韦伯和小jj录像带在媒体历史上的最快过渡。这可以作为一个论文的论点。我们在这里创造了纪录。
Call Dr. Guinness. I don't know if there's a Dr. Guinness. I don't know how you know what it's. But yeah, this thing is popping off and it didn't help that Bob Iger today said that the writers were hurting the industry. I think that probably only added fuel to the fire.
给Dr.吉尼斯打电话。我不知道是否有一个叫吉尼斯博士的人。我也不知道你是怎么知道的。但是没错，这个事情正在发酵，而且鲍勃·艾格尔今天说作家们正在伤害这个行业也不帮助解决问题。我想这可能只会火上加油。
Fran Drescher spoke. She's the president of SAG, the nanny. Yeah. Yeah. That's her. She's the president of SAG. She had a very fiery speech saying that basically they're ruining lives. They're getting rid of residuals. That's the big thing here. The big fight with both the WGA and SAG is they want residuals. If they make product, they want to make money from that years down the line because that's how most of them support themselves, especially like people who maybe have big careers in their 30s and then nothing in their 40s because people start hiring them for a wide variety of reasons usually due to ageism. So they really want these residuals and the companies are like, well, no, because we're doing streaming now, we don't make enough money to pay you residuals, but I Bob Iger make $27 million a year and I think you guys need to get back to work. Just a terrifically tone deaf move on his part. That was a real bummer.
Fran Drescher发言了。她是SAG（演员工会）的总裁，就是那个保姆。是的，没错，就是她。她发表了一篇非常激烈的演讲，基本上是说他们正在毁掉人们的生活。他们要取消版权分红，这是一个大问题。编剧工会和演员工会都在为版权分红进行激烈的斗争。如果他们创造了作品，他们希望多年后能从中赚钱，因为这是他们中的大多数人维持生计的方式，特别是那些在三十多岁时有过辉煌事业但在四十多岁时却一无所获的人，主要是因为人们开始因为年龄歧视而不再雇佣他们。所以他们真的希望获得这些版权分红，而公司却说：“不行，因为我们现在正在进行流媒体，没有足够的钱来支付您的版权分红。”但是鲍勃·伊格尔却每年赚取2700万美元，而且我认为你们需要回去工作。这是他的一个非常不敏感的行为，真是让人沮丧。
So I encourage everyone to go watch this on. I goes on CNBC. It's the Sun Valley. It's an incredible setting to be like, this strike is disturbing and it should stop. He's at Sun Valley. Because this is where all the billionaires go to make mogul deals where they buy each other's companies. Right. Like the next turn he's going to be like, and we're consolidating all the studios even for like, who knows, right? But the occasion of it is that he just signed a new to your contract. Like he's never leaving Disney. No. Like the last thing that they're going to do with Bob Iger is instead of the animatronic Spiderman, they're just going to eat him into the sun. That exhibit. And that's how he's going to go out, right? It's he's just in the company.
所以我鼓励大家去看这个，在CNBC上播出。这是Sun Valley，是一个令人难以置信的环境，他在那里说这次罢工令人不安，应该停止。他在Sun Valley。因为这是所有亿万富豪们去进行交易的地方，他们会互相收购对方的公司。对。下一步他可能会说我们正在整合所有的制片厂，不知道是多大规模。但他刚刚签了一个新的两年合同。就像他永远不会离开迪士尼一样。不。对他们来说，最后一件事就是将做一个动画人偶蜘蛛侠，然后将它送进太阳展览中心。这就是他将离职的方式，没错吧？他只是公司的一部分。
And he said two things originally. One he said the strike is disturbing. Like the actors and the writers are not paying attention to the economic reality of this industry, which is fascinating. And you can feel any way you want about that. Like on some level, there isn't a grain of truth in there, which is these companies do not make as much money selling Seinfeld 60 billion times over and over again in different territories in the world. Which the economics of that are not happening. Should they still make it more equitable? They should. And like somewhere in there is Friday, I come, but nobody else would.
他原本说过两件事情。一件是他说罢工是令人不安的。就像演员和作家没有关注到这个行业的经济现实，这是很有意思的。你可以对此有任何感受。从某种程度上来说，其中没有一丁点真实的东西，即这些公司不会通过在世界各地以不同形式重复播放《宋飞传》60亿次来赚取如此之多的钱。经济学上并没有这样的情况发生。他们是否应该让它更公平一些？是的。而在其中还有一个想法，我会参与其中，但其他人不会。
And then he said, Oh, I might sell ESPN and ABC. Like linear television is like on its way out for us. And we might have to do something else. And that is like, that's the end of Disney is we know it. ESPN funded everything. Like the cable fees for ESPN funded the acquisition of Marvel and Lucasfilm and all this stuff. And that engine is gone is basically what he's saying. And I think that is utterly fascinating.
然后他说：“哦，我可能会出售ESPN和ABC。线性电视对我们来说已经走向没落了。我们可能不得不做些其他的事情。而这就是，迪士尼我们所熟知的就此结束了。ESPN资助了一切。就是ESPN的有线电视费用支持了对漫威和卢卡斯影业等的收购。而这个引擎现在已经消失了，这就是他所说的意思。我认为这非常有趣。”
Well, and not only that ESPN like was the shining star of the cable business for decades, like a big part of the reason that the cable business has started to go away comes back to what people say about ESPN, which is what I don't want to pay these massive carriage fees for sports because I don't watch sports. And my cable bill includes $7 a month for ESPN because ESPN has to pay billions of dollars to the NBA in order to get games. So they're charging the cable providers who are charging me and I don't watch sports. And so like that is the single cleanest example of why Unbundling is useful. And it has just it's destroying ESPN as it happens.
嗯，不仅如此，多年来ESPN一直是有线电视业务的明星，评价ESPN这样做的很大一部分原因是，人们认为ESPN不值得支付如此高昂的运营费用，因为他们不看体育节目。我的有线电视账单里每个月还包括7美元用于支付ESPN的费用，而ESPN必须向NBA支付数十亿美元以获取比赛转播权。所以他们向有线电视供应商收费，而供应商又向我收费，而我并不看体育节目。这就是解绑的最清晰的例子，它说明了解绑是有用的。而正是因为这个原因，正好也在摧毁ESPN。
Like ESPN spent so much money because it could pass those fees on to so many people. And it is now I think very much an open question of like, is there does that business continue to exist if you have to just charge directly the people who watch the sports? Where are the sports? Like are they still on ESPN? Yeah, they're on Reddit. Like it's just it's so true for so many people that is so complicated to watch sports that pirating the streams are right. It is easier.
像ESPN花了这么多钱是因为它可以将这些费用转嫁给很多人。现在我觉得有个问题很明显，如果你必须直接向观看体育赛事的人收费，这样的商业模式还能继续存在吗？体育赛事在哪里？是不是还在ESPN上？是的，它们在Reddit上。对于很多人来说，观看体育赛事如此复杂，黑流成了更容易的选择。
Oh, yeah. And sports is a disaster. And this will take a long time to play out because they sell these rights like a decade at a time. And so it's going to get real weird. But also the thing that happened is companies like Disney signed decade long deals thinking that cable was going to very slowly and carefully decline and streaming was going to grow and the money was going to offset and everybody was going to get rich. And now what it looks like is all the numbers are down big really fast. And so I go saying like we need a strategic partner for ESPN was so like Disney other than money, Disney doesn't need anything in terms of like how to do content. And so the fact that even Disney can't figure this out is fascinating.
哦，是的。而且体育是个灾难。而且这将需要很长时间来解决，因为他们把这些权利卖出去，像是以十年为期限。所以事情会变得非常奇怪。但是也发生的一件事是，像迪士尼这样的公司签署了长达十年的协议，认为有线电视会缓慢而谨慎地衰退，流媒体会增长，资金会得到补偿，每个人都会变富有。而现在看起来，所有的数字都急剧下降。所以我说我们需要对ESPN找到一个战略合作伙伴，是因为除了资金，迪士尼在内容方面不需要任何帮助。所以即使连迪士尼都找不到解决办法，这真是让人着迷。
You also just stole my lightning round thing, which is the ESPN thing. So that's fine. So I I'm I'm done. That's you. I've had another one. I got the Google thing and you for your lightning round. No, I don't even want to. I'm just mad about ESPN. Sorry. There's a big future of sports media piece to be written because it is just a total chaos zone right now. Yeah. Yeah. And even stuff like Twitter and Instagram threads like that's where the center of gravity and sports has been for a while. Right. It's like, I hear here's a story I want. I'm desperate for this.
你还抢走了我关于闪电回合的东西，这是ESPN的东西。没关系，我已经不想再玩了。你要谢谢谷歌为你的闪电回合。不，我甚至不想要了。我只是对ESPN感到生气。很抱歉，现在有一个关于体育媒体前景的重要文章需要写，因为现在完全是一个混乱的地带。没错。就连像推特和Instagram等社交媒体平台也成为体育话题的重心已经有一段时间了。就像，听听我想要的故事，我渴望得到这个。
Do you know when if you're a sports fan, you see this happen like every season, college football recruits go and they sign with a team. All the way around. If you're a sports fan, you see this like happen all the time, like high school students get recruited by a college and they say they're going to commit to some college, right? This like happens in every sport. And they all put up like Instagram templates where they've written a bunch of copy and they have a bunch of photos. I just want to know who designs the templates. Who's doing it? Who's open in Canva and listening to some 17 year old talk about how Jesus is in their heart and they were always meant to play for a like, who is it? Let me know. Like, I just want to talk to you. I have all the jerseys done.
你知道吗，如果你是一个体育迷，你会发现每个赛季都会发生这种情况，大学橄榄球新秀会去和一个球队签约。这种情况无处不在。如果你是一个体育迷，你会经常看到这样的事情发生，就像高中学生会被大学招募，并且他们说他们要选择某个大学。这种情况在每个体育项目中都会发生。他们会发布一些类似Instagram的模板，上面有他们写的一些文字和一些照片。我只是想知道是谁设计这些模板。是谁在打开Canva，听一个17岁的孩子说耶稣在他们的心中，并且他们一直都是为某个团队而打球的。告诉我一下，我只是想和你聊聊。我已经把所有的球衣做好了。
Yeah. It's amazing. Right. That's a whole economy of creators and creatives and agencies and that exists because of Instagram, not because of ESPN. And so like you just see like even that part of it is shifting. I just think it's like there's a whole thing to be written about how all of it is shifting, but then the actual part of it where you like sit down and watch the games is so hard that it's easier to open Reddit and just find them. Yeah. And it's going to cascade through everything else because sports have been the richest thing in TV on all sides for a really long time. Yeah. Yeah.
是的，太神奇了。对的。这是一个完整的创作者、创意人、代理机构的经济体系，是因为Instagram而存在，而不是因为ESPN。所以，你会看到，即使其中的部分也在转变。我只是觉得有很多可以写的东西，关于所有这些是如何转变的，但是当你坐下来观看比赛的时候，它实际上是很困难的，所以打开Reddit找到比赛更容易。是的。而且这将会影响其他所有方面，因为体育一直是电视上最丰厚的事业之一。是的。是的。
What's your lightning round? Even you ever saw this coming my way. Sarah Silverman is suing OpenAI and meta. Oh, we are. I want to talk about legal things. What? I love it. How does this relate to Joseph and the Technicolor dreamcoat? Would you say? Well, so Sarah Silverman has a coat of many colors and those colors are a number of legal theories about you know, real problem being on threads like I'm tweeting all this. It's kind of people like, yeah, this is what we came here for. It's like, this is not the feedback loop America needs. More lawsuits. No, no, no, no, no. This is where I was trying to get away from. Easy dopamine hit by saying I hate this judge. Like, stop it bad, but I'll do it anyway because I'm addicted to it.
你的闪电回合是什么？即使你看到这个情况即将发生也一样。Sarah Silverman正在起诉OpenAI和Meta。哦，我们正在说法律问题。什么？我喜欢它。这与约瑟夫和彩色梦衣有什么关系？你会说什么？嗯，所以Sarah Silverman有一件由许多色彩组成的衣服，这些颜色代表了许多关于真正问题的法律理论，而我正在社交媒体上发推文时就像处于这种状况中，有些人表示，是的，这就是我们来这里的目的。就好像这不是美国需要的反馈循环一样，更多的诉讼。不，不，不，不，不。这是我试图离开的地方。通过说我讨厌这个法官来获得容易的多巴胺刺激，就像停下来不要这样，但我还是会这样做，因为我对此上瘾。
Anyway, Sarah Silverman, there's a law firm basically that is organizing itself around suing the AI companies. So they had a couple other offer. They had a couple other children's book authors and now they filed the second one, Sarah Silverman, some other authors. And they're basically saying, look, you can ask these tools to summarize these books and then they do it. At some point, that means you have made a copy of this book and that copy was unauthorized. And that's the whole argument. It's a pretty good argument. Like, as far as legal, it's not like out on a ledge, right? It's saying, hey, did you have permission to make this copy of this book? Because usually you don't.
然后，莎拉·西尔弗曼，有一家律师事务所，基本上是在组织起诉人工智能公司。所以他们还有其他一些儿童书籍作者，现在他们已经提交了第二起诉讼，莎拉·西尔弗曼，还有其他一些作者。他们基本上在说，你可以要求这些工具给这些书籍做个摘要，然后他们做到了。但这样做就意味着你已经复制了这本书，而这个复制品是未经授权的。这就是整个争论的核心。这是一个相当好的观点。从法律角度来看，它并不是无中生有的说法，对吧？它在说，嘿，你有没有获得复制这本书的授权？通常情况下是没有的。
Isn't that basically exactly what worked for the record companies against all the free pirating websites? We can worry about all the big picture stuff, but you're taking our thing and you're putting it over here and that's not allowed. No, it was a different, like Sarah, John, and I could probably do two hours of interest. They had to invent all these theories about how they were enabling users to do copy or infringement. Okay. Right. So Napster wasn't doing any infringement on its own. I was sending a file from my computer to your computer and that was unauthorized, but Napster created a business that let us do that and they knew that. And they just had to like invent a bunch of legal theories about contributory.
这不基本上就是唱片公司对抗所有免费盗版网站所采取的策略吗？我们可以担心所有宏观事务，但你们把我们的东西拿来用在这里是不允许的。不，这是不同的，就像Sarah、John和我可能有两个小时的兴趣。他们不得不发明所有这些理论，解释他们如何使用户进行复制或侵权。好吧。对的。那么Napster本身并不侵权。我从我的电脑发送文件到你的电脑，这是未经授权的，但Napster创造了一种让我们这样做的业务，并且他们知道这一点。他们只是不得不发明一堆关于促成性的合法理论。
So this one's even more straightforward than this is just straight up, like, did you make a copy of this book? Did you have permission to make a copy of this book? If you did not have permission, is it fair use for you to have made a copy of this book ingested into your servers and then deliver what is obviously a derivative work of this book, which is summary of the book. Wouldn't that have ramifications for like everything computers do? Yes. Without question, like all computers do is make copies, right? Like the fundamentally, in copyright law is like very backwards in this way because it, I think I've said this many times the show. It's hard for people in the computer era to wrap their heads around the basic of copyright law, which is that it regulates the act of making copies. So if I make a copy of something that implicates copyright law, if you don't make a copy, then there's nothing, whatever. So like you reading the book, you have not made a copy of the book. You reading a book perfectly memorizing it and then writing it all down is an unauthorized copy of the book. When you do that, most people cannot do that. Computers can do that at rapid scale.
所以这个比起之前更加直接，就像，你有没有复制这本书？你有没有获得复制这本书的许可？如果没有获得许可，那么你复制这本书并将其存储在服务器上，并且传送一个显然是这本书的衍生作品，即这本书的摘要，这是否属于合理使用呢？这会不会影响到计算机所做的一切事情呢？是的，毫无疑问，所有计算机所做的就是复制，对吧？从版权法的角度来看，这是非常傻的，因为它调控的是复制行为。所以如果我复制了某个东西，那就涉及版权法；如果你没有复制，那就无所谓了。比如你读一本书，你没有复制这本书。但是，如果你读一本书，并完全记住了书中的内容，然后将其全部写下来，这就是未经许可的书的复制。大多数人做不到这一点，但是计算机可以迅速完成。
So like there's just a decade of law, like furious law, Google books, like go look at that case, like ferocious lawsuit about the existence of Google books. Amazon, remember they had a Kindle and the Kindle had text to speech built into it? Ferocious lawsuit from the author's guild about whether that was copyright infringement. That makes no sense to me. Like just like, right? Like it's text, it's on my computer. I can hit a button and it should read to me. So like no, that's a derivative work. We make a lot of money doing audio books. You can't have it. Like we're not letting you make that copy. And they won essentially. They got a set of items.
就像有十年的法律，像愤怒的法律，Google图书，就像去看看那个案例，像关于Google图书存在的激烈诉讼。亚马逊，还记得他们有个Kindle，Kindle内置了文本朗读功能？作者协会对此是否侵犯了版权发起了激烈的诉讼。对我来说这毫无道理。就像，对吧？就是文本，它在我的电脑上。我可以按下按钮让它读给我听。所以就像不行，那是派生作品。我们通过有声读物赚了很多钱。你不能拥有那份副本。他们最终获胜了。他们得到了一套物品。
So like there's just this thing where it's like, it's the simplest thing and like the hardest thing in any conversation is to keep people focused on the simplest thing, which is did you make a copy of the book? Like everyone spins off into like the philosophy of it. It's like, no, did they make a copy of the book? They have permission to make that copy of the book. The answer is like, obviously no. And I think this is the these lawsuits are just going to escalate because copyright law is like not ready for this problem. That's exciting. Yeah, I'm thrilled. And then just to bring this all the way back around, the FTC is also now investigating open AI for the way that it has gotten some of that data to train its models.
就像有这样一种情况，就是最简单的事情也是任何对话中最困难的事情，那就是你有没有复制那本书？每个人都会陷入关于这个问题的哲学讨论中。但事实上，答案是他们是否有复制那本书的许可，显然是没有的。我认为这些诉讼只会不断升级，因为版权法尚未准备好应对这个问题。这真是令人兴奋。是的，我感到兴奋。顺带一提，联邦贸易委员会现在还在调查OpenAI获取训练模型数据的方式。
And it just feels like like Sam Altman was out here a while ago being like, please regulate us. We love regulation. And like boy, is he about to get what he asked for? Yeah, but he's like, he's like, regulates some like mythical problem. He's like, make it illegal for the AI to launch nuclear weapons. Yeah. Fine. Good. The part where it's like the AI is hovered up all the data in the world without permission and hasn't returned any of that value to any of the people who made the starting works. That is a decade of litigation, like straight up a decade of lawsuits to come, which is great because we have a website and we like writing about lawsuits and the people on threads are like super into it when I tweet about the lawsuit.
感觉像是Sam Altman曾经要求监管我们。我们喜欢监管。但现在，他即将得到他所请求的吗？是的，但他似乎在监管一些神秘的问题。他似乎在说，让AI发射核武器非法化。好吧。没问题。但是当AI未经允许储集了全世界的数据，并且没有将任何价值回馈给那些创造这些数据的人时，这将引发长达十年的法律纠纷。这太好了，因为我们有一个网站，我们喜欢写诉讼，并且当我在推特上谈到诉讼时，大家都非常感兴趣。
So off we go. I think what we're going to do is we're going to we're going to have one version cast episode of year that's just 19 hours long and it's just all of Neelas thoughts about copyright law.
所以我们开始吧。我认为我们要做的是，我们要制作一个版本的节目，它将持续19个小时，内容全部是关于尼拉对版权法的思考。
It's like a honeypot version cast episode. Right. And we've been published it. It's just it's just on the internet. It's going to be great. I think people that we've been threatening that one. I keep threatening an hour long about metadata on decoder. It's all it's all coming. That's what we're here for.
这就像是一个蜜罐版本的演出集。是的，我们已经发布了它。只是它只存在于互联网上。这将会很棒。我认为我们已经威胁了很多人。我一直在威胁要在解码器上进行一个关于元数据长达一个小时的节目。一切都即将实现。这就是我们在这里做的事情。
Absolutely. We're the people who did to do holiday spectaculars. Very few other publications that are scale or sustained success. People are like, why is the purchase a sustained success? I'm like hour long HTMI podcast. Yeah. Get into it.
没错。我们就是那些负责制作节日盛典的人。其他出版物很少能够达到我们的规模和持续的成功。人们会问，为什么这个购买是一个持续的成功呢？我会回答，因为我们有一小时长的《HTMI播客》。是的，深入了解吧。
We were asked the other day if that's the thing we intend to keep doing and we say, absolutely, you are damn right. That is a thing we intend to keep doing. I will die before I don't do a holiday. That's how much I love you.
前几天有人问我们是否打算继续做这件事，我们回答说，当然，你完全说对了。我们确实打算继续做这件事情。我宁愿死，也不愿不度假。这就是我对你有多么的爱。
All right. I was going to end on another Joseph and the amazing technical dream project, but I actually don't remember any other words. David, you're a musical theater nerd. I have never seen Joseph in the amazing technical dream code. I could sing you several songs from Jesus Christ Superstar, which feels like it's roughly the same thing. This is the most Android webber that has ever been on the show.
好吧，我原本想以《约瑟夫和神奇的技术梦》项目结束，但实际上我记不起来其他的词了。大卫，你是一个音乐剧迷。我从来没有看过《约瑟夫和神奇的技术梦密码》。我可以给你唱几首《耶稣基督 Superstar》的歌曲，感觉差不多。这是节目中最多安卓·韦伯（安德鲁·劳埃德·韦伯）的一次亮相了。
I think it's time to stop. It has been wonderful. I love you. The Verge cast audience. This is David said Carl Pay on the show next week, right? Yeah, we got some fun stuff coming up next week, but yeah, that's a good one. All right.
我觉得是时候停下来了。这真是太棒了。我爱你们，The Verge的听众们。大卫说卡尔下周会在节目中出现，对吧？是的，下周我们会有一些有趣的内容，但这个也是个不错的选择。好的，就这样吧。
That's it. I got to take a crumb with Fast. That's the Verge cast. Back on roll. Up in thirdorphids.
没错，我要和Fast一起去吃点东西。那就是Verge广播。我们继续前进，第三波开始了。