Shouzi Chew
发布时间 2022-03-03 22:38:53 来源
摘要
TikTok CEO Shouzi Chew talks about government regulation, user safety and how to become a TikTok star. He's on "The David Rubenstein Show: Peer-to-Peer Conversations." This was recorded Feb. 17 in New York. The Carlyle Group is an investor in TikTok owner Bytedance Ltd.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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中英文字稿 
More than one billion people around the world visit TikTok every month, but with immense growth comes scrutiny and competition. In this episode of the David Rubensline show, Peer to Peer Conversations, I sit down with TikTok CEO Showsy Choo to discuss TikTok's future and also find out if I could become TikTok famous.
全球有十多亿人每个月都造访TikTok，但是随着巨大的增长，也带来了批评和竞争。在这一期的David Rubensline Show的Peer to Peer Conversations中，我与TikTok的CEO Showsy Choo坐下来讨论TikTok的未来，并且想知道我是否能成为TikTok的名人。
Now, I am older than many of your TikTok followers, I believe. You have some people my age, but my impression is it's for younger people. Is that wrong?
现在，我相信我比你的 TikTok 关注者中的许多人都要年长。你有一些和我同龄的人，但我的印象是这个平台是为年轻人而设计的。这个印象有错吗？
There is really something for everyone on TikTok. I would have you installed TikTok, yeah, David?
在TikTok上真的有适合每个人的内容。大卫，我建议你安装TikTok，你肯定会喜欢它的。
Well, I'm not an expert on TikTok. I have looked at it, but I haven't seen anything that looks like me. I think you may be surprised.
好的，我不是TikTok的专家。我看过它，但我还没有看到像我这样的内容。我想你可能会感到惊讶。
For example, there is something called Book Talk on TikTok. It is a hashtag and it really is a trend where people share short videos on their favorite books. And you'll be surprised how many views they have. We have 40 billion views on Book Talk alone. There are many other categories. There is Clean Talk, which is about people cleaning, 30 billion views. I personally am a very amateur golfer. Hashtag golf has more than 10 billion views on TikTok as well. So I believe there is something for everyone.
比如说，TikTok上有一种叫做“书谈”的东西。它是一个标签，人们在上面分享自己喜欢的书籍的短视频。你会惊讶地发现这些视频有多少人观看。仅仅“书谈”这个标签就有4,000亿次观看。还有很多其他的类别，比如“清洁谈”，是关于人们清洁的视频，有30亿次观看。我个人是一个非常业余的高尔夫球手。TikTok上的“高尔夫”标签也有超过100亿次观看。所以，我相信每个人都能在这里找到自己喜欢的东西。
The way we want to present this is we have a machine learning recommendation engine, which personalizes your experience when you use TikTok. And we believe there is something for you as well.
我们想要呈现的方式是，我们有一个机器学习推荐引擎，当您使用TikTok时，它可以个性化您的体验。我们相信您也会有所收获。
So can anybody put a video on TikTok?
那么，任何人都可以在 TikTok 上发布视频吗？
Yes, very easily. How do you control if somebody puts something on that's dangerous or pornographic or not appropriate?
是的，非常容易。如果有人放了危险物品、色情内容或不适当的东西，你该怎么管控呢？
This is a great question. One of the most important things that I have been focusing on since I took on the role nearly a year ago is on the safety of our platform. It's something we take absolutely seriously.
这是个非常好的问题。自从我近一年前担任这个角色以来，我一直把重心放在我们平台的安全上。这是我们非常认真对待的事情。
And we have elevated this as a top priority for myself and for the company. We put a significant amount of investment into it. And we believe that we need to continue to invest in trust and safety to stay ahead of our growth because of the growth of the platform.
我们把这个事情提升到了我和公司的首要任务之一。我们花了大量的投资在这方面。我们认为，出于平台的增长，我们需要继续投资于信任和安全，以保持领先地位。
So for example, making sure that our community guidelines, which are published transparently online, are well understood by our users, making sure that we have the tools and the capabilities to ensure a safe environment, a safe and inclusive environment on our platform so that our users feel there is a trusted environment to publish and to inspire the creativity they want to.
例如，确保我们的社区指南在网上公开透明，并且被我们的用户充分理解；确保我们拥有工具和能力来保障我们的平台免受危害，为我们的用户营造一个安全、包容的环境，使他们感到我们的平台是值得信赖的，可以发布并激发他们想要的创造力。
Let's suppose I want to be a TikTok person. I want to be on TikTok. But I have to make a living. Can I make a living by just being on TikTok or are there people that make a living just by being on TikTok?
假设我想成为一个TikTok达人。我想在TikTok上出名。但是我需要谋生。我能否只凭借在TikTok上的活动谋生，或者有人靠在TikTok上谋生呢？
Most of our users come on TikTok to share how they feel and to inspire the world. But there are people who come on TikTok and this is something we are extremely proud of.
我们大多数的用户来TikTok分享自己的情感，同时激励整个世界。不过也有一些人来到TikTok，而这是我们非常自豪的事情。
We have enabled them, we have given them the platform and the tools to actually make a proper living. And most of these are small businesses or individuals.
我们已经帮助了他们，我们给他们提供了平台和工具来真正谋生。而大多数都是小企业或个人。
I can give you an example. I have been looking at my own TikTok recently and I saw this video on TK Surf and Turf. It is a restaurant in Denver. I think it is the first black owned family operated seafood restaurant in Denver.
我能给你举个例子。最近我在看我的TikTok，然后我看到了一个关于TK Surf and Turf餐厅的视频。这家餐厅在丹佛市，我想它是丹佛第一家黑人家庭经营的海鲜餐厅。
What I have heard is during the pandemic, business was poor for a lot of restaurants including them. But what one creator did was to create videos on how great the restaurant was. It became an overnight sensation. It went viral and now business is booming for that company. And there are thousands upon thousands of examples like that across the US and across the world.
据我所听，疫情期间包括他们在内的许多餐厅都生意不好。但有位创作者制作了有关这家餐厅美食的视频，它一夜之间成为了热点话题，迅速走红，这家餐厅的生意也因此蒸蒸日上。在美国和全球范围内，还有数以千计的类似案例。
So this is something that we are immensely proud of. That we have a platform. The small businesses can make use of to grow their business.
这是我们非常自豪的事情。我们有一个平台，让小企业可以利用它来发展业务。
Let's suppose I want to be a TikTok performer and I want to get paid for it. Do I do something that says this restaurant is great and hopefully the restaurant will pay me? Is that how people get paid by being on TikTok?
假设我想成为一名TikTok表演者，并且想因此获得报酬。我是不是要做一些事情，比如说这家餐厅很棒，希望餐厅会付给我钱？这就是人们通过TikTok获得报酬的方式吗？
There are several mechanisms to do it. The first is if you have enough followers, certain brands will get in touch with you. Either through us or otherwise for you to represent their brand. So you become their brand ambassador. So that's one way some of our creators get paid.
有几种机制可以做到这一点。第一种方法是如果你有足够的粉丝，某些品牌会联系你。无论是通过我们还是其他途径，他们会让你代表他们的品牌。这样你就成为他们的品牌代言人。有些我们的创作者就是通过这种方式赚钱的。
Beyond that, we have provided them with tools to monetize, you know, to get in touch with their followers and to monetize that as well. For example, we have a live streaming service. So as a creator, you can launch, you can have a live streaming session and that is an exclusive session where you can interact with a followers and your followers can give you virtual gifts and that's one way you can monetize.
除此之外，我们还提供给他们工具来变现，让他们和自己的粉丝联系起来，并且也能通过此来获得利润。举例来说，我们有一项直播服务。所以作为创作者，你可以发起一个直播，这是一个独家的直播，你可以与你的粉丝互动，而你的粉丝可以给你虚拟礼物，这是一种你可以获得利润的方式。
The other example is e-commerce. We provide our creators with the tools to be able to sell merchandise on the platform as well. This is still a new part of our business but it's something that people are very, very excited about.
另一个例子就是电子商务。我们向我们的创作者提供工具，让他们能够在平台上销售商品。这是我们业务的一个新部分，但是人们对此非常非常兴奋。
How did you make money then? In other words, somebody goes on TikTok and they're making money for this restaurant in Denver. How do you make any money?
你是怎么赚钱的呢？换句话说，有人在TikTok上为这家位于丹佛的餐厅赚钱，你是如何赚钱的？
We make money primarily through advertising and also providing services like live streaming and e-commerce. I'll use this and we do have a service fee that we charge to provide those services. But if somebody just uploads their video on TikTok, do they pay you a fee for that or not? No, it's absolutely free.
我们主要通过广告赚钱，还提供一些服务，比如直播和电子商务。我会用这个赚钱，我们也有一定的服务费用来提供这些服务。但是如果有人只是在TikTok上上传了他们的视频，他们需要给你付费吗？不需要，这是完全免费的。
Are there companies now that specialize in making people TikTok stars? Somebody says, I want to be on TikTok. I want people to watch me. Maybe I can sell my services to an advertising company or some way. There are other people that polish up people's TikTok presentations. The way I'll platform works and my advice to anyone who wants to be famous on our platform is to just be themselves. What we have found is that this community wants real content. They want the real raw content. They want to see people being themselves. Many people tell me it's a breath of fresh air. It's the sunny corner of the internet. My advice to anyone who wants to be famous is really to be themselves.
现在是否有专门让人成为TikTok明星的公司？有人说，我想在TikTok上出名。我希望有人观看我的视频。也许我可以向广告公司销售我的服务或者想别的办法。还有其他人会提升别人的TikTok演示效果。我们的平台运作方式和我对任何想在我们平台上出名的人的建议是，只要做自己就好了。我们发现，这个社区想要真实的内容。他们想要真实而原始的内容。他们想看到人们真实表现自己。许多人告诉我这是一股清新的空气。这是互联网的阳光角落。我对任何想要出名的人的建议就是真正做自己。
Recently, Mark Zuckerberg announced at his quarterly earnings after explaining why the stock went down by 25% as a result of the declining use of Facebook. He attributed to TikTok and TikTok was becoming a big rival. He said, how did it feel to be blamed by Mark Zuckerberg for the decline in value of Facebook? We are a very young company at this point and they are still very big competitors in the market. Some of them have been around for a long time with a lot of resources.
最近，马克·扎克伯格在解释 Facebook 的使用量下降导致股票下跌25%之后，在季度收益报告中宣布了一项消息。他将这一下跌归因于 TikTok 平台，表示 TikTok 正成为Facebook 的强劲竞争对手。被马克·扎克伯格指责为导致 Facebook 价值下降的原因，您感觉如何？我们是一家非常年轻的公司，他们仍然是市场上的强大竞争对手。其中一些公司已经存在很长时间，拥有大量资源。
The way we look at it, there's still a long way for us to go in terms of achieving the mission that we want to achieve. We think that there are a number of things that makes us unique in the market. The first is that we are pioneers in what we do. We have innovated this form of short video combined with a 4U feed and we are confident that in the coming years, we will continue to innovate on that front and bring the best and the most interesting value proposition to our users.
我们认为，就我们想要实现的使命而言，还有很长的路要走。我们认为，在市场上我们有一些独特之处。首先，我们是创新者。我们将短视频与4U信息流相结合，并且我们有信心，在未来数年中，我们将在这方面继续创新，并为我们的用户带来最好、最有趣的价值主张。
So if Mark Zuckerberg were here, would you say don't worry about us. We're not a big competition to you or would you say we're coming after you? I think for us, David, we are more focused on ourselves. I think over the long run, the biggest competitor that we have, as cliche as it's going to sound, is going to be ourselves.
如果马克·扎克伯格在这里，你会说不用担心我们，我们对你来说不是一个大竞争对手，还是会说我们追着你来了？我认为我们更关注自己，David。我想长远来看，我们最大的竞争对手，尽管这听起来老生常谈，还是自己。
We have a mission which is to inspire creativity and to bring joy and we believe that our most important focus is to focus on delivering that mission. But let me ask you this. Most of the large Chinese technology companies, let's say Alibaba, Baidu, Tencent, they have gigantic market values and they are very prominent in China, not as prominent outside of China as obviously in China and certainly not that prominent in the United States.
我们的使命是激发创造力和带来快乐，我们相信我们最重要的重点是专注于传递这个使命。但是让我问你一下。大多数中国科技公司，比如阿里巴巴、百度、腾讯，它们有巨大的市值，在中国非常突出，但在中国以外并不像在中国那样突出，美国也肯定不那么突出。
TikTok by contrast is not in China but it's gigantic outside of China, United States and everywhere. What did TikTok do that enabled a Chinese-based company, parent company at least, to do so well outside of China? We think it's challenging to build a global company in general. The best ones we have seen so far are ones that take very consistent global learnings and adapt them to the local countries that they are operating in. So you need to be global and local at the same time.
相比之下，抖音并不在中国，但在中国以外的地方，包括美国和其他地方都非常巨大。那么为什么一个总部设在中国的公司可以在中国以外做得这么好呢？我们认为，一般来说建立一个全球公司都很具有挑战性。我们迄今看到的最好的公司是那些能够获得非常一致的全球经验，并将它们适应经营的当地国家。所以，你需要同时具备全球和本地化。
And it's something that we're investing in. For example, here in the US, we have a very sizable team here in New York and Austin in LA at this point. And becoming more local is something we will continue to invest in. Let's talk about the beginning of TikTok.
"这是我们正在投资的一件事。例如，在美国，我们已经在纽约、奥斯汀和洛杉矶都有非常庞大的团队。并且成为更本地化是我们将继续投资的事情。让我们聊聊TikTok的起源。"
So what is bite dance? Bite dance was the parent company. When was bite dance started and who was the founder of Bite Dance? I was very fortunate about ten years ago to have had the chance to participate in the company as an investor. Bite dance was founded in 2012 by Eaming and the original, like any good startup story, the original product has evolved over time.
那Bite Dance是什么呢？Bite Dance是母公司。Bite Dance是在何时成立的，由谁创立的呢？大约十年前，我很幸运有机会作为投资者参与公司。Bite Dance是由Eaming创立于2012年，就像任何优秀的初创企业故事一样，原始产品随着时间的推移得到了发展。
And there were many hits and misses in the evolution of the company. One thing that has remained very consistent for bite dance is the mission. The mission for bite dance today is to inspire creativity and to enrich life. And what I've noticed over the course of the decade that I've known the company is that they have been very consistent in wanting to deliver this mission to as many people as possible.
公司的发展历程中出现了许多成功和失败。然而，字节跳动一直保持着目标的一贯性。如今，字节跳动的目标仍然是激发创造力、丰富生活。十年来我一直关注着这家公司，我注意到它非常一致地想要将这个目标传达给尽可能多的人。
And driven by this mission, what struck me in the early days of bite dance was the desire to be mobile, the focus on machine learning, recommendation, and this desire to be global. And it's been very consistent over the last ten years. I should disclose that my own investment company is an investor in bite dance. We took an investment number of years ago and I assume it will be a good investment. I don't know.
受这个使命的推动，让我在快手早期时感到的是对移动设备的渴望、对机器学习和推荐的关注以及全球化的愿望。在过去的十年中，这种愿望一直非常一致。我应该声明，我的投资公司是快手的投资者之一。我们几年前投资了它，我认为它将是一个不错的投资，不过我并不确定。
But let's talk about how TikTok evolved out of bite dance. So when did TikTok come along?
但是让我们来谈谈TikTok是如何从抖音发展而来的。那么TikTok是何时出现的呢？
The original apps that were developed by bite dance had a very similar concept, which was to recommend content to users based on machine learning algorithms that they tried to understand the user's behavior. The first iteration of it that was successful was a news app.
"Bite Dance 开发的原始应用程序有一个非常相似的观念，也就是基于机器学习算法推荐内容给用户，尝试理解用户的行为。其中第一个成功的版本是一款新闻应用程序。"
So it took news content and it recommended news to users based on their own behavior on the app. Now, sometime between 2012 and 2016, that evolved into a short video and that evolved into TikTok. And did anybody think it would turn out to be a global phenomenon at the beginning? No, no.
所以它取得了新闻内容，并基于用户在应用上的行为向他们推荐新闻。现在，在2012年至2016年期间，它发展成了短视频，进而成为了TikTok。有人在一开始就认为它会成为全球现象吗？不，没有。
All right. So let me ask you about TikTok and regulation. Under President Trump, there was a concern that certain information that TikTok was getting from people using TikTok was somehow going to be detrimental to the United States. And there was an effort to force TikTok to sell its US business. What happened to that effort?
好的，让我问你一些关于TikTok和监管的问题。在特朗普总统的领导下，人们担心TikTok从使用TikTok的人那里获取的某些信息会对美国造成损害。因此，有一种努力强迫TikTok出售其美国业务的做法。那个努力发生了什么？
We believe that our approach to all the governments and regulators around the world is to be collaborative and to be very transparent, to be available, to explain what we do and who we are and answer any questions that they have. That's the approach we have taken.
我们相信，我们对世界各国政府和监管机构的态度应该是协作的和非常透明的，我们应该随时可以联系到他们，解释我们做什么以及我们是谁，并回答他们所有的问题。这是我们采取的方法。
And that approach has been an approach that has been very beneficial for us over the course of the last few years. But there was a proposal at one point that required you to sell the TikTok business in the US. I think it was going to be sold perhaps to our realisans company, Oracle. Is that off the table now and right now you are not being forced to sell anything? Is that right?
我们过去几年一直走的路线非常有益，但是有一段时间有一个提案，要求你把在美国的TikTok业务出售。我认为它可能要卖给我们的合作伙伴Oracle。现在这个提案已经被取消了，你现在也不必被迫出售任何东西了，对吗？
We have moved beyond that conversation. Okay. And the current administration, the Biden administration, have they picked up the cudgels and said, well, we want to engage in the same fight or right now you don't have to worry about that.
我们已经超越了那个对话了。好的。那么目前的政府，拜登政府，他们有没有拿起棍棒说，我们想参与同样的斗争，或者现在你不必担心这个？
Again, we are taking the approach now to be very transparent, to be very engaged, very collaborative, and to answer any questions that they may have. Okay. But the biggest concern that people had, or at least some people in the Trump administration had, and maybe other people, is that the data that you have on your computers about who's watching what? I presume the data you have would somehow get fed back to China and China would have it for its use, the Chinese government.
我们现在采取的方法是非常透明的，非常积极参与，非常协作，回答任何他们可能有的问题。好的，但最大的担忧是，特朗普政府内部或其他人可能会担心，您在计算机上拥有的有关观看者的数据？我推测您拥有的数据会以某种方式被反馈给中国，并被中国政府用于其利益。
Is that true that your data is subject to being given to or you're forced to give it the Chinese government? We disagree with that.
你的数据会被提供给中国政府或你被迫提供吗？这是真的吗？我们不同意。
The ways TikTok has set up today, first of all, TikTok is not available for download in China. It operates outside of China. The data, the data for TikTok uses is thought in Virginia and in Singapore, with the backup in Singapore. And we believe that we have a very rigorous and robust system to protect the data security of our users.
首先，TikTok如今的使用方式是，在中国无法下载。它在国外运营。TikTok所使用的数据，主要存放在弗吉尼亚和新加坡，备份则在新加坡。我们相信我们有一个非常严谨和强大的系统，以保护我们用户的数据安全。
What do you do with the data? So let's suppose I go on TikTok and I like certain kinds of things to watch. If you presumably can, and your algorithms know that, what do you do with that data? You sell it to another company or do nothing with it?
你会怎么处理这些数据呢？假设我去 TikTok 上观看某些特定类型的内容，如果你能够知道这一点并且你的算法知道这一点，那么你会对这些数据做些什么呢？你会将其出售给其他公司还是什么都不做呢？
It is our recommendation engine. The best way to think about it is that it's just pure mathematics. It digests the behavior that our users have on our platform, including likes, what videos do you like, the comments, how long you stay on the particular video, so on and so forth. So signals like behavior or signals like that. And it recommends a content that you could potentially be most entertained by. So that's really how the data is being used on our platform.
这是我们的推荐引擎。最好的理解方式就是它纯粹是数学计算。它分析我们用户在平台上的行为，包括点赞、你喜欢的视频、评论、你在特定视频上停留的时间等等。所以这里的信号就是行为等。然后推荐可能让你最感兴趣的内容。这就是我们在平台上如何利用数据的方式。
How many countries are you in now?
你现在在几个国家？
Outside of China and India, essentially, all the other countries.
除了中国和印度，基本上所有其他国家。
And today, do you have something that's proprietary such that somebody couldn't come along and compete?
今天，你是否拥有专有的东西，以至于其他人不能来进行竞争？
In other words, there's always people coming along trying to disrupt companies and that certainly happens a lot in the tech world. Are you worried that somebody's going to come along with a new product that's slightly better than yours or do you think that's unlikely given how dominant you are in the business now?
换句话说，总有人试图破坏公司，尤其是在科技界。你担心有人会推出一款略微更好的新产品，还是觉得这不太可能，因为你现在在业务上非常占主导地位？
David, this is a very competitive space. In our industry, there are players with bigger muscles. They have more resources. They have been around for a longer period of time. And I think it keeps us on our toes. We have our strengths. We are pioneers in this. We believe that we are innovative and we will continue to innovate. And we have a very unique community that we talked about that we believe is very special and not easily replicable.
大卫，这个领域竞争非常激烈。我们行业里有一些比我们更有实力的参与者。他们拥有更多的资源，已经在这个行业呆了更长时间。我认为这种竞争让我们更有竞争力。虽然如此，我们也拥有自己的优势。我们在这个领域是先驱者，相信我们是富有创新性的，而且我们将继续不断创新。我们还拥有一个非常特别独特的社区，我们认为这个社区非常特别，难以被复制。
So we have our advantages. We are confident. But at the same time, competition is very intense. Now China has been a little tougher. Some people would say on Chinese tech companies than it was a year or two ago. And there's been what some people would say, clamp down on Chinese tech companies. Has that affected you in any way?
那么，我们有自己的优势。我们很自信。但同时，竞争非常激烈。现在中国对科技公司变得有些严厉。有些人说比一两年前更严格了。并且有些人会说，对中国科技公司进行了打压。这有没有对你产生影响呢？
I think in this DNH, we have to be very collaborative and be very transparent and have an active dialogue with regulators and governments around the world to help them understand our business and to answer any questions that they may have.
我认为在这个数字新药合作项目中，我们需要非常协作，非常透明，并与全球监管机构和政府保持积极的对话，帮助他们了解我们的业务并回答他们可能有的任何问题。
As I mentioned earlier, my firm did invest in it. But I don't have any inside information. And I don't know if you're going to give me the inside information. But is there any plan to take by dance public at some point?
就像我之前提到的一样，我的公司确实投资了这个项目。但是我并没有任何内幕消息。我也不知道你是否会向我透露内幕消息。但是是否有计划在某个时间点将 By Dance 上市呢？
Our current focus, given the growth of our company, is to really focus on the business. There is still so much we can do, especially for tech talk, that really our management focus is on growing the business at this point and making sure that we are investing in the right things that we invest in. At some point, we will access the capital markets. At some point, we will. But that is really not the priority at this point.
由于我们公司的增长，我们现在的重点是真正专注于业务。我们还有很多事情可以做，特别是关于技术方面的讨论，所以我们的管理重点在于增长业务，并确保我们投资于正确的事物。在某个时候，我们将会进入资本市场，但是现在的重点并不是这个。
And when you go into the public markets, what do you think when your public documents or reveal will be the biggest surprise, if the size of the platform or the profitability of it, what do you think is likely to be the biggest surprise?
当你进入公共市场时，你认为你的公开文件或披露会带来什么最大的惊喜？是平台的规模还是其盈利能力？你认为最可能的惊喜是什么？
That's a very good question. I need to go back and think about it. I think most of what we do is followed. And many people sort of, thankfully, you have a lot of interest in our business today. So I'm not sure whether there will be any big surprises.
那真是个好问题。我需要回去好好想想。我认为我们大部分的行动是被追随的。很多人都对我们的业务有兴趣，感激不尽。所以我不确定是否会有任何大的惊喜。
Let's talk about your own background. So you mentioned your Singaporean, were you born in Singapore?
我们来谈谈你自己的背景吧。你提到了你是新加坡人，你在新加坡出生吗？
I am born in Singapore.
我出生在新加坡。
Okay. And did you go to college in high school in Singapore?
好的。你在新加坡的高中时上大学吗？
The thing about growing up in a small island like Singapore, David, is you get one the last at a very young age. It's a tropical paradise. It's a tiny island. I love it, but it's very small. So after high school and after the national service, we have national service there, I went to the UK for college and subsequently to share in the US for a business school and met my wife. You went to Harvard Business School?
在新加坡这样的小岛长大的话，David，一个很年轻的时候就得明白的是，你只能得到很少的东西。它是一个热带的天堂，但是很小。我喜欢它，但是它实在太小了。所以，在高中和国家服务之后，我去了英国上大学，随后又去了美国上商学院并遇见了我的太太。你去了哈佛商学院？
I did. And so how do you think Harvard Business School was? Was it smarter? The people there smarter than you thought or not as smarter as you thought they'd be?
我就是说我去了哈佛商学院。那么你认为哈佛商学院怎么样？那里的人比你想象中更聪明还是不如你想象中聪明？
It was a great time there. The most important moment was I met my wife in business school. So to me, this was a great two years.
在那里度过的时光真棒。最重要的时刻是我在商学院认识了我的妻子。对我来说，这是难忘的两年。
Okay. So you graduated from Harvard Business School in what year?
好的，那么你是在哪一年从哈佛商学院毕业的？
In 2010.
2010年。
All right. So what did you do then?
好的，那么接下来你做了什么呢？
Business school, I joined an investment company called DST, which invests in internet companies.
我加入了一家名叫DST的投资公司，专门投资于互联网企业。这家公司在商学院非常知名。
Is this your email nurse company?
这是你的护士公司的邮箱吗？
Yes. And so what did you do for him? You looked for internet related investments?
是的。那你为他做了什么？你找了一些和互联网有关的投资吗？
That's what I did.
我就是这样做的。
Okay. And how many years were you there?
好的。你在那里呆了多少年？
I was there for about five years. And it was doing this time that I got to meet and meet an investment by dance.
我在那里待了大约五年时间。就是在这段时间里，我有机会结识并参与了一项舞蹈投资活动。
Okay. So after you left your email nurse operation, what did you do?
好的，那么在您离开电子邮件护士操作之后，您做了什么？
I joined a company called Xiaomi, where I initially was the CFO and then ran the global operations for the company.
我加入了一个叫小米的公司，一开始是CFO，后来负责公司的全球运营。
Okay. So you did that for a while and then I had a hundred called you up and said, guess what? We wanted to come to bite dance or how did that happen?
好的。所以你做了一段时间，然后我打了一百个电话给你，说猜猜？我们想来跳舞或者那是怎么发生的？
It wasn't a headhunter. I stayed very close to the folks and bite dance because of my early relationship with them. So they reached out. There's a little known factor about me, which is I used to be a creator. I actually had a hundred and eighty five thousand followers on my account. And so I had to go through that process of learning how to connect with my followers and using the product. And it was an amazing way. I found the product so amazing in terms of being able to communicate the messages I wanted to my followers. So I love the product. I've known the team for a long time. I think that the mission is something that I really truly believe in. So when the opportunity opened up, it was very organic for me to have a hundred and eighty five thousand followers now.
这不是猎头找我，我跟那些人关系很亲密，因为我很早就认识他们，并经常在他们那里跳舞。所以他们联系我。还有一件很少人知道的事情，就是我曾经是一个内容创作者，在我的账户上有十八万五千个关注者。所以我必须经历学习如何与我的关注者联系以及如何使用产品的过程。这是一种惊人的方式，我发现产品非常棒，可以让我向我的关注者传达我想要的信息。所以我非常喜欢这个产品。我认识这个团队有很长时间了。我认为这个使命是我真正信仰的东西。所以当机会出现时，我很自然地有了十八万五千个关注者。
I did. You did. Now you've given them up or what do you have now?
我做过。你做过。现在你放弃了它们，或者你现在有什么？
That account was used to sell products. So I have a since transitioned into a more consumer based, a more sort of personal account.
那个账户被用来卖产品，所以现在我已经转变成了更加消费者导向、更加个人化的账户。
All right. So you were recruited to become the CFO of bite dance.
好的。所以你被招募为抖音的首席财务官。
Yes. And you had that job. You're the CFO of bite dance. And after just like five weeks, they promoted you to be the CFO of TikTok. Is that right?
是的。你曾经拥有那份工作。你是字节跳动的首席财务官。只用了大约五周，他们就把你晋升为TikTok的首席财务官。是这样吗？
It was after a couple of months.
过了几个月的时间。
A couple of months, okay. So was that a promotion?
几个月了，那是晋升了吗？
I think it's the nature of the job is very different.
我觉得这份工作的本质非常不同。
And what is the biggest challenge that you have as the CFO? Is it to keep the regulators away or to get more customers, more advertisers? What is the biggest challenge?
您作为首席财务官面临的最大挑战是什么？是让监管机构远离还是争取更多客户，更多广告商？最大的挑战是什么？
There are a couple of things that keeps me awake at night, I think that's the question. The opportunity that we have, I believe that we have something that's very unique. We pioneered this sort of short video format. And we have a very unique community today that has all these kind of raw, authentic content that people love. And I think the opportunity that we have to take this to more people around the world, to inspire them and for them to bring more joy to more people.. This is a great and unique opportunity. It keeps me very, very excited.
有几件事情会让我晚上睡不着觉，我想这就是问题所在。我相信我们拥有非常独特的机会。我们开创了这种短视频格式的先河。而今天我们拥有一个非常独特的社区，这个社区拥有各种原始、真实的内容，深受人们喜爱。我认为我们有机会将这些内容带给更多的人，激励他们，为更多的人带来更多的快乐。这是一个很棒、独特的机会，让我感到非常非常兴奋。
At the same time, there are challenges that we have to work through. For example, making sure that we are investing enough more and more into safety to stay ahead of our growth. Because it is something that's very important to us. So challenges and opportunities, they both excite me equally.
与此同时，我们面临着必须克服的挑战。比如说，确保我们在安全方面的投资越来越足够，以保持我们的增长领先。因为这对我们来说非常重要。所以，挑战和机遇，它们都同样激发我的热情。
Now, since you took the job of CFO of TikTok, we've been living in COVID. How hard has it been to manage a company during COVID? Are you mostly been isolated or how have you been operating during COVID?
自从您担任TikTok的首席财务官以来，我们一直在经历COVID-19。在疫情期间，管理公司有多困难？您大多数时间都是孤立的吗？在疫情期间，您是如何运作的？
It has been a challenging time, I think, for many businesses around the world, including ours. We are a growing company. It is difficult for new employees who are joining us to not have the opportunity to mingle and interact with other people offline in the offices. So it is something that, thankfully, we are at the stage of the pandemic where we can start thinking about return to office. It is something that we want to provide, especially the new comments in our company, the right opportunities to integrate and to blend in and to make sure that they have the right opportunities to interact with as many people as they want.
我认为对于许多公司来说，包括我们自己在内，这是一个具有挑战性的时期。我们是一家不断发展的公司。新员工们没有机会在办公室与其他人线下互动交流，这是很困难的。幸运的是，我们现在处于疫情的阶段，可以开始考虑返回办公室。我们想提供这样的机会，特别是对于公司中的新员工，让他们有机会融入和融合，并确保他们有机会与尽可能多的人进行交流。
So as you look at TikTok, what is your favorite single thing you've watched on TikTok? Is there one thing you've watched and said, this is my favorite?
当你观看TikTok时，你最喜欢的单个视频是什么？有没有一个你观看后说，“这是我最喜欢的视频”？
There are a number of them. I am in amateur golf. So, hashtag golf has 10 billion views or more on TikTok. It is very, very entertaining. So if you watch golf on TikTok, you get to be a better golfer or not necessarily. Unfortunately, not necessarily. It doesn't help.
他们有很多。我是个业余高尔夫球手。所以在TikTok上，hashtag高尔夫有10亿次观看或更多。非常非常娱乐。所以如果你在TikTok上看高尔夫球，你会成为一个更好的高尔夫球手吗？可能不一定。遗憾的是，它并没有什么帮助。
When you are not working at TikTok and you are not golfing, there is any outside interest you have or you don't have any outside time for the things you think you should do.
当你不在TikTok工作也不打高尔夫球的时候，你还有其他兴趣爱好么？或者你没有时间去从事你认为应该做的事情？
I am an amateur theoretical physicist. Yes, I am reading books on theoretical physics and trying to understand it. So that is something that I love. I have interviewed many people over the years. I have never interviewed anybody who said that their hobby was amateur theoretical physics. So that must be unusual. So regret not becoming the next Albert Einstein or something like that. I don't think I have the ability to be that. I hardly understand the mathematics behind some of the more complex theories, but I find it very interesting.
我是一个业余理论物理学家。是的，我正在读关于理论物理的书，努力理解它。这是我喜欢的事情。多年来我采访了许多人。我从来没有采访过任何人说他们的爱好是业余理论物理。所以这一定是不寻常的。很遗憾我没有成为下一个阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦或者什么的。我不认为我有那种能力。我几乎不能理解某些更复杂理论背后的数学，但是我发现它非常有趣。
So today as you look forward to what you are going to be doing over the next year or so, what are your most focused on?
今天，当你期待着接下来一年左右要做什么时，你最关注的是什么？
I am most focused on trust building. We are a young company and I think trust is something that we have to earn through actions. For example, through our continued investment in safety. So that is a big focus for me. That we are focused on not only growing our business, but earning trust with the right stick holders around the world along the way.
我最关注的是建立信任。我们是一家年轻的公司，我认为信任是我们通过行动获得的东西。例如，通过我们对安全的持续投资。所以这是我非常关注的一个方面。我们不仅专注于发展业务，同时也在赢得全球正确的利益相关者的信任。
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谢谢你倾听。要想听更多我的采访，请在 Spotify、Apple 或你惯常使用的任何应用上订阅和下载我的播客。