Shuhei Yoshida on the future of gaming | The Vergecast

在《The VergeCast》的一次广泛讨论中，主持人肖恩·霍利斯特（Sean Hollister）与前PlayStation高管吉田修平（Shuhei Yoshida）进行了交谈，话题涵盖了视频游戏不断发展的格局，从人工智能的影响到游戏平台和商业模式的未来。吉田曾帮助推出了初代PlayStation并积极支持独立游戏，他分享了自己对行业发展方向的见解。 吉田首先指出全球游戏玩家群体持续增长，他们在各种不同的设备上玩游戏。他强调了游戏创作的民主化，最初是通过Unity等工具实现的，而现在则因人工智能的加入而大幅加速。他分享了一些朋友的轶事，这些朋友在设计或艺术方面很有天赋，现在可以使用人工智能编码独立制作游戏，从而在没有传统编程限制的情况下将他们的愿景变为现实。尽管由于更多样化游戏作品的出现，这对“玩家来说是个好消息”，但吉田也承认，这可能对“所有希望通过制作游戏谋生的游戏创作者来说是一个充满挑战的时期”。 接着，讨论深入到了游戏内部的人工智能应用。吉田提到了利用自然语言输入进行角色互动或故事生成的实验性独立游戏。然而，他警告了依赖服务器的人工智能游戏的成本问题，他引用了“Ryza chat”服务为例，该服务的大量使用会产生巨额费用，引发了“谁来为这些买单？”的问题。尽管一些玩家和开发者担心失业而对人工智能普遍存在偏见，但吉田透露，许多人，尤其是独立开发者，甚至大型工作室，都已经在利用人工智能进行概念艺术、质量保证（QA）和本地化等任务，以加速开发。他认为，就人工智能的具体用途进行沟通是获得更广泛接受的关键，因为人们会接受那些能加速流程的工具，而不是那些可能看起来像“AI生成”的新内容。 关于这些游戏将在何处游玩，吉田讨论了各种平台。他认为Nintendo Switch和Switch 2的成功不仅在于它们的便携性，还在于它们的混合主机性质，这使得开发者能够整合资源。吉田个人表示喜欢Steam Deck和ROG Ally等便携式游戏PC，尽管他目前用于“研究”的最爱是Steam Machine。他指出，包括PlayStation和Xbox在内的现代主机采用PC架构，使得将游戏移植到PC上更加直接和潜在有利可图——这是索尼（Sony）直到最近都在利用的一个机会。他观察到索尼正在重新将AAA级单人游戏回归PlayStation独占，这表明“平台业务”方面目前正在内部辩论中胜过主张PC移植的“第一方业务”。 主机可负担性和新商业模式的话题也得到了讨论。霍利斯特提到了微软（Microsoft）在不补贴Xbox硬件的情况下，追求“激进的新商业模式”所面临的困境。吉田质疑了昂贵硬件订阅模式的可行性，并暗示主机制造商可能会因为高昂的组件成本而推迟下一代产品的发布。他认为许多玩家对PS5和Switch 2等当前一代硬件感到满意，开发者也未必迫切需要更强大的机器。 云游戏作为硬件成本的另一个潜在解决方案，吉田对此长期持怀疑态度，质疑谁将承担巨大的服务器和电力成本。他回忆起谷歌Stadia未能兑现的承诺，但承认，未来如果老旧的人工智能服务器农场变得廉价可用，可能会改变那些已经投资云基础设施的大型科技公司的经济效益。 最后，讨论转向了移动游戏。尽管手机是玩游戏最流行的设备，但吉田认为为移动设备设计游戏是根本不同的，许多最初转向移动领域的公司后来又回到了PC/主机开发。他强调，尽管专用安卓（Android）游戏设备有所进步，但操控方案仍是移动平台上“严肃游戏”的主要限制。然而，他承认了中国和韩国开发者（如米哈游MiHoYo的《原神Genshin Impact》）日益增长的影响力，这些开发者首先为移动设备设计游戏，同时确保它们在PC和主机上也表现良好，并越来越多地以高端作品瞄准核心玩家。 总之，吉田描绘了一个复杂而充满活力的游戏未来图景，其特点是人工智能的变革潜力、不断变化的平台策略、演进的商业模式以及专用游戏硬件和无处不在的移动设备之间持续的相互作用。

In a wide-ranging discussion on The VergeCast, host Sean Hollister spoke with former PlayStation executive Shuhei Yoshida about the evolving landscape of video games, from AI's impact to the future of gaming platforms and business models. Yoshida, who helped launch the original PlayStation and championed indie games, offered his insights into where the industry is headed. Yoshida began by noting the continuous growth of the gaming audience globally, playing across diverse devices. He highlighted the democratization of game creation, initially through tools like Unity and now significantly accelerated by AI. He shared anecdotes of friends, talented in design or art, who can now create games independently using AI coding, allowing them to bring their visions to life without traditional programming limitations. While this is "great news for gamers" due to the promise of more diverse titles, Yoshida acknowledged it could pose a "challenging time for all the game creators who want to make living by making games." The conversation then delved into AI within games themselves. Yoshida mentioned experimental indie titles utilizing natural language input for character interaction or story generation. However, he cautioned about the cost implications for server-dependent AI games, citing the "Ryza chat" service where heavy usage incurs significant charges, raising the question, "who's going to pay for that?" Despite a prevalent stigma against AI among some gamers and developers worried about job loss, Yoshida revealed that many, especially indies and even larger studios, are already leveraging AI for tasks like concept art, QA, and localization to speed up development. He believes communication about AI's specific uses will be key to broader acceptance, as people will accept tools that expedite processes rather than generate new content that might appear "AI gen." Regarding where these games will be played, Yoshida discussed various platforms. He attributed the success of Nintendo Switch and Switch 2 not solely to their portability but to their hybrid console nature, allowing developers to consolidate resources. Personally, Yoshida expressed a fondness for portable gaming PCs like the Steam Deck and ROG Ally, though his current favorite for "research" is a Steam Machine. He noted that the PC architecture of modern consoles, including PlayStation and Xbox, makes porting games to PC much more straightforward and potentially lucrative—an opportunity Sony capitalized on until recently. He observed Sony's shift back to PlayStation exclusivity for AAA single-player titles, suggesting the "platform business" side is currently winning the internal argument over "first-party business" that championed PC ports. The topic of console affordability and new business models was also addressed. Hollister brought up Microsoft's dilemma of pursuing "radical new business models" without subsidizing the Xbox hardware. Yoshida questioned the viability of expensive subscription models for hardware, suggesting that console manufacturers might delay next-generation launches due to high component costs. He believes many players are content with current-gen hardware like the PS5 and Switch 2, and developers aren't necessarily clamoring for more powerful machines. Cloud gaming, another potential solution to hardware costs, was met with Yoshida's long-standing skepticism regarding who would bear the significant server and electricity costs. He recalled Google Stadia's unfulfilled promises but conceded that a future scenario where aging AI server farms become cheaply available could potentially change the economics for big tech companies already invested in cloud infrastructure. Finally, the discussion turned to mobile gaming. While phones are the most popular devices for playing games, Yoshida argued that designing games for mobile is fundamentally different, and many companies that initially shifted to mobile later returned to PC/console development. He highlighted the control scheme as a primary limitation for "serious games" on mobile, despite advancements in dedicated Android gaming devices. However, he acknowledged the rising influence of Chinese and Korean developers, like MiHoYo (Genshin Impact), who design games for mobile first while ensuring they also perform well on PC and console, increasingly targeting hardcore gamers with high-end titles. In conclusion, Yoshida painted a complex and dynamic picture of the gaming future, marked by the transformative potential of AI, shifting platform strategies, evolving business models, and the ongoing interplay between dedicated gaming hardware and ubiquitous mobile devices.