“OpenAI’s Model Hacked Us” - Hugging Face’s Thomas Wolf

An OpenAI-powered agent penetrated Hugging Face during cyber testing - even though it was never tasked with attacking Hugging Face. It did it as a side quest. Thomas Wolf, co-founder and Chief Science Officer of Hugging Face, joins Matt Turck to unpack what actually happened, why closed AI models refused to help during the live incident, how an open-source model helped the team fight back, and why the old equation of “closed equals safe, open equals dangerous” no longer holds. They also discuss model deception and social engineering, the limits of sandboxes and guardrails, the state of open-source AI in 2026, AI sovereignty, the economics of open models, recursive self-improvement, and whether the frontier should deliberately slow down. Thomas Wolf LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thom-wolf X/Twitter - https://x.com/Thom_wolf Hugging Face Website - https://huggingface.com X/Twitter - https://x.com/huggingface Matt Turck (General Partner) Blog - https://mattturck.com LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/turck/ X/Twitter - https://x.com/mattturck FirstMark Capital Website - https://firstmark.com X/Twitter - https://x.com/FirstMarkCap Listen on: Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7yLATDSaFvgJG80ACcRJtq Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mad-podcast-with-matt-turck/id168623872 00:00 An AI Agent Hacked Hugging Face 00:30 Introduction 01:00 17,000 Attacker Events—and a Strange Target 04:28 The Attack Was a “Side Quest” 06:13 AI Training Runs Left Notes for Each Other 07:09 Closed AI Refused to Help 09:47 Fighting Back With an Open-Source Model 13:15 Open vs. Closed Is the Wrong Safety Debate 15:46 AI Agents Start Social-Engineering Humans 22:24 The Three Walls: Sandboxes, Guardrails, Alignment 24:34 “Neuralese”: Can Humans Still Read AI Reasoning? 25:28 Why Monitoring AI Agents Gets So Hard 28:10 Reward Hacking and the “Paperclip Problem” 32:02 The State of Open-Source AI in 2026 33:47 Router Models and the Enterprise Shift to Open 37:01 The Real Economics of Open Models 39:41 Can Chinese AI Models Be Trusted? 41:37 AI Sovereignty: Who Controls the Switch? 43:16 Why Western Open-Source AI Matters 48:16 Is AI Heading Toward an Oligopoly? 49:41 The Race Toward Recursive Self-Improvement 51:54 Why Thomas Signed the AI Slowdown Letter 55:14 AI Slowdown—or Regulatory Capture?

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