# The **epic** story of Markdown | The Vergecast

Markdown is a system for writing that makes it readable to both humans and computers. It's all about the symbols. You use - to make a list, * for emphasis, ** for even more emphasis. Brackets and parentheses turn into links. Once you know Markdown, you might begin to think in Markdown. Right now it is absolutely everywhere: people are maintaining their Claude.MD files for conversing with AI bots, and writing their notes in Markdown editors like Obsidian. So where did Markdown come from? It came from John Gruber. John joins the show, along with Anil Dash, to tell the story of where Markdown came from and how it took over the world. We have new merch! Get yours here: https://bit.ly/3RCikCY 0:00 - Intro: What is Markdown? 2:18 - 90 Seconds on The Verge 4:02 - Guest intros: John Gruber (inventor) & Anil Dash 4:38 - Origin story: blogging, HTML pain, and the need for something better 7:40 - The core philosophy: readability over writability 9:54 - Anil: Markdown's early adoption at Gawker and Huffington Post 12:37 - The blogosphere era and how Markdown spread 15:47 - Markdown's slow burn 2004–2010 16:29 - Stack Overflow and GitHub as inflection points 18:37 - Technical evangelists and Apple Notes 19:18 - John's three stages of Markdown's life 20:58 - Where Markdown editors go too far 27:34 - Markdown as convention, not spec 28:05 - Markdown as the lingua franca of AI 29:05 - Why LLMs love Markdown more than JSON 30:30 - What Markdown's story teaches the next generation 31:23 - Outro Subscribe: http://goo.gl/G5RXGs Like The Verge on Facebook: https://goo.gl/2P1aGc Follow on Twitter: https://goo.gl/XTWX61 Follow on Instagram: https://goo.gl/7ZeLv Watch The Vergecast on YouTube: https://bit.ly/40RFRkg The Vergecast Podcast: https://bit.ly/3WQDexZ Decoder with Nilay Patel: http://apple.co/3v29nDc More about our podcasts: https://www.theverge.com/podcasts Read More: http://www.theverge.com Community guidelines: http://bit.ly/2D0hlAv Wallpapers from The Verge: https://bit.ly/2xQXYJr Shop our Verge merch store here: https://bit.ly/4kPCmEc Subscribe to The Verge: https://bit.ly/3FT6n5S If you buy something from a Verge link, Vox Media may receive a commission without exerting any influence on editorial content. For more information about our ethics policy, visit: https://bit.ly/3ZWTlLs

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