Essentials: Tools to Boost Attention & Memory | Dr. Wendy Suzuki
发布时间 2026-01-15 13:00:59 来源
摘要
In this Huberman Lab Essentials episode, my guest is Dr. Wendy Suzuki, PhD, a professor of neural science and psychology at ...
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Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials, where we revisit past episodes for the most potent and actionable science-based tools for mental health, physical health, and performance. I'm Andrew Huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine, and now for my discussion with Dr. Wendy Suzuki. Wendy, great to see you again and to have you here. It's been a little while. It's been a while. It's so great to be here, Andrew. Thank you so much for having me.
欢迎来到 Huberman 实验室精华版。在这里，我们重温过去的节目，提供最有效且可实践的科学工具，以改善心理健康、身体健康和表现。我是 Andrew Huberman，斯坦福医学院神经生物学和眼科学院的教授。现在，我将与 Wendy Suzuki 博士展开讨论。Wendy，很高兴再次见到你并欢迎你来到这里。我们好久没见了。真的很高兴能来这里，Andrew，非常感谢你的邀请。
Yeah, delighted. I'd like to start off by talking about memory generally, and then I'd love to chat about your incredible work, discovering how exercise and memory interface and what people can do to improve their memory and brain function generally. Yes. Maybe you could just step us through the basic elements of memory. Well, I like to see there are four things that make things memorable.
当然，非常高兴。我想先从一般性的记忆谈起，然后再聊聊您在发现锻炼与记忆的关系方面所做的出色工作，以及人们可以采取什么措施来提高他们的记忆力和大脑功能。您是否可以为我们介绍一下记忆的基本要素？我认为有四个因素让事物变得令人难忘。
Number one is novelty. If it's something new, the very first thing, the very first time we've seen something or experienced something, our brains are drawn to that, our attentional systems draw us to that, and when you are paying attention to something that's part of what makes things memorable. Second is repetition. Third is association. So if you meet somebody new that knows lots of people that you know, so you and I share many, many, many, many people that we both know, it's easy to remember, it's easier to remember you, especially if you were somebody new that I hadn't met before, we have met before. So association.
首先是新奇感。如果某样东西是新的，是我们第一次看到或体验的事物，我们的大脑就会被吸引过去，我们的注意力系统会把注意力转移到那上面，而专注于某件事情是让它变得难忘的部分原因。第二是重复。第三是联想。比如，如果你遇见一个新朋友，这个人认识很多你也认识的人，那么记住这个新朋友就会变得容易得多。特别是如果他是你以前未曾见过的人，但实际上我们之前已经见过面。所以，联想很重要。
And then the fourth one is emotional resonance. So we remember the happiest and the saddest moments of our lives. And that also includes, you know, funny, surprising things. That is the interaction between two key brain structures, the amygdala, which is important for processing lots of emotional, particularly threatening kinds of situations. But those threatening, surprising kinds of situations, the amygdala takes that information and makes another key structure called the hippocampus work better to put new long term memories in your brain.
然后，第四个方面是情感共鸣。我们记得生活中最快乐和最悲伤的时刻，也包括一些有趣和出人意料的事情。这是大脑中两个关键结构之间的互动：杏仁核和海马体。杏仁核在处理各种情感，特别是威胁性情境方面很重要。而在这些威胁性或令人惊讶的情境中，杏仁核会利用这些信息促使海马体更好地工作，从而在大脑中形成新的长期记忆。
So that in fact is the key structure for long term memory, the structure called the hippocampus. Step us through again, what this structure is, what it looks like. The word hippocampus means seahorse. It is visually anatomically beautiful with these kind of intertwining subregions within it. So that's anatomically functionally what does it do?
实际上，这就是长期记忆的关键结构，被称为海马体。再带我们了解一下这个结构是什么，它长什么样。词语“海马体”的意思是海马。从解剖学上看，它非常美丽，内部有交错的子区域。这是它的解剖学功能上，它具体有什么作用呢？
Well, it's easiest to understand what it does when you look at what happens when you don't have a hippocampus anymore. We know this from the most famous neurological patient of all time. His initials were HM. So all psychology neuroscientists, neuroscience students know him. He was operated in 1954 and the paper was published in 1957. They removed both the hippocampi because he had very terrible epilepsy. And they knew that the hippocampus was the genesis of epilepsy. This was experimental. His epilepsy was so bad that they decided not just to remove one hippocampus, but both.
要理解海马体的功能，最简单的方法就是看看当一个人没有海马体的时候会发生什么。我们从历史上最著名的神经学病人之一了解到这点。他的名字缩写是HM，所有心理学、神经科学专家和学生都知道他。他在1954年接受了手术，相关论文于1957年发表。他的两个海马体被切除了，因为他癫痫非常严重，而当时认为海马体是癫痫的病源。手术是实验性的，由于他的癫痫过于严重，他们决定不仅切除一个海马体，而是两个都切除。
And what happened was immediate, immediate loss of all ability to form new memories for facts and events. So this hippocampus does something with all of these perceptions that are coming at us every single day, every minute of the day. And not for all of them, but for some of them that have these features that we just talked about, maybe they're novel, maybe they have associations, maybe they're emotionally relevant, maybe they've been repeated. Some of those things in the realm of facts or events get encoded in our long term memory.
结果是立即失去了形成新事实和事件记忆的能力。海马体负责处理我们每天每分钟接收到的大量信息。并不是所有的信息都会被记录，但对于一些具有特定特征的信息，比如新颖性、关联性、情感相关性或者重复性，这些事实或事件中有些会被编码进我们的长期记忆。
The hippocampus and what it does really defines our own personal histories. It means it defines who we are. Because if we can't remember what we've done, the information we've learned, and the events of our lives, it changes us. That's what really defines us. But what people have started to realize that it's not just memory. It's not just putting together associations for what, where and when of events that happened in our past. But it's putting together information that is in our long term memory banks in interesting new ways.
海马体及其功能实际上定义了我们个人的历史，这也就意味着它定义了我们是谁。因为如果我们无法记住自己做过的事情、学到的信息和生活中的事件，我们就会改变。这才是真正定义我们的东西。但人们开始意识到，海马体的功能不仅仅是记忆。它不仅仅是整理过去事件的时间、地点和经过的关联，而是以有趣的新方式整合储存在我们长期记忆中的信息。
I'm talking about imagination. So without the hippocampus, yes, you can't remember things, but actually you're not able to imagine events or situations that you've never experienced before. So what that says is the hippocampus is important for memory is a two simple way to think about it. What the hippocampus is important for is what we've already talked about associating things together writ large.
我在谈论想象力。没有海马体的话，的确，你无法记忆事情，但实际上，你也不能想象你从未经历过的事件或情境。这意味着仅仅说海马体对记忆很重要是过于简单的。海马体的重要性在于我们之前提到的，将事物大范围地联系在一起的能力。
Any time you need to associate something together, either for your past, your present or your future, you are using your hippocampus. And it takes on this much more important role in our cognitive lives when we think about it like that. That is kind of the new hippocampus that neuroscientists are studying these days. There are some memories that can be formed very quickly, so-called one trial learning. What is it about very emotionally salient events that allow memories to get stamped in?
每当你需要将某些事情联系在一起时，无论是关于你的过去、现在还是未来，你都在使用你的海马体。当我们这样理解海马体时，它在我们的认知生活中就扮演了更为重要的角色。如今，神经科学家正在研究这样的“新海马体”。有些记忆可以非常快速地形成，这被称为一次性学习。那么，非常情绪化的事件是如何让记忆被深刻铭刻的呢？
There is this protective function of our brains that has evolved over the last 2.5 million years. That you need to pay attention and remember certain things for your survival. If something terrible happens, if something very scary happens, you remember that and that fear and that memory of all those things. I mean, I have one when I lived in Washington, D.C. I went to work at NIH on a Sunday afternoon and I came back and when I rounded the corner to my door of my apartment, it was Croboi Bard Inn. Somebody had taken a crowbar, opened up my door and stole the nicest things in my apartment. Ever since then, whenever I rounded that corner, I still had that memory. It was terrible because, you know, it put me in a terrible state when I was just coming home. And that's a survival mechanism. Do you want to be alert to possible danger? Absolutely yes.
我们的大脑具有一种保护功能，这是在过去250万年中进化而来的。这种功能要求我们注意和记住某些事物以确保生存。如果发生糟糕或可怕的事情，你会记住这些以及由此产生的恐惧和记忆。我也有过这样的经历，当我住在华盛顿特区时，有一次周日下午我去国立卫生研究院工作，回来后在转到我公寓门口时，发现门被撬开了。有人用撬棍撬开了门，偷走了我公寓里最好的东西。从那时起，每次我转过那个拐角，这个记忆都会浮现出来。这很糟糕，因为它让我在回家的时候感到恐惧。但这是一个生存机制。我们需要对可能的危险保持警觉吗？当然需要。
So part of those one trial memories, I think, is often taking advantage of this evolutionarily developed system to tamp in things that could be potentially dangerous to you into your memory. So you forever will remember this particular corner or this hallway because that is where something really bad happened to you. For people trying to learn information that they're not that excited about, is there something that we can do to leverage knowledge of how the memory system works naturally to make that a more straightforward process. Maybe we could talk about your story and how you came to the place you are at now because I think it provides a number of tools that people could implement themselves.
这段话意思是，有些记忆通常是通过进化发展出来的系统帮助我们记住可能对我们有危险的事物。例如，你可能永远记得一个特定的角落或走廊，因为在那里发生过对你非常糟糕的事情。对于想要学习自己不太感兴趣的信息的人来说，是否可以利用对记忆系统自然运作方式的了解，使得学习过程变得更简单？或许我们可以谈谈你的经历，以及你是如何达到现在的成就的，因为我认为其中提供了一些可以让大家自己运用的方法和工具。
Yeah, yeah, as I was working to get tenure at NYU and as you know, it's a stress field process. They give you six years to show your stuff and you are judged in front of all your colleagues and either they say, okay, you can join the club or they say sorry. And so my strategy was I'm just going to not do anything but work. I'm going to just work as hard as I can for the six years. And what happens when you work and you don't have any sort of life outside of work, you gain 25 pounds, which is exactly what I did. And you get really, really stressed. And so I decided to go on vacation and I did an adventure river rafting trip in Peru. And so I go by myself and meet other interesting people and I was the weakest person on this whole trip. It was embarrassing.
对，在我为纽约大学的终身教职而努力的时候，正如你所知，那是一个充满压力的过程。他们给你六年的时间来展示自己的能力，然后在所有同事面前接受评估，他们会决定是否让你加入这个“俱乐部”。所以我的策略就是，全力以赴，只专注于工作。我打算在这六年里尽可能地努力工作。然而，当你只工作而没有任何工作之外的生活时，结果就是体重增加了25磅，就跟我一样，并且压力很大。所以我决定去度假，参加了秘鲁的冒险漂流旅行。我独自一人前往并结识了其他有趣的人，但我却是整个旅程中最弱的一个，这也让我有些尴尬。
And I came back and I said, okay, I cannot be the weakest person. I'm in my late 30s. I have to do something. So I went to the gym fast forward year and a half. I've lost the 25 pounds so proud of myself so much happier. And I'm sitting in my office doing what you and I do a lot, which is writing an IH grant, which is our lifeblood, right. And writing, writing, writing. And this thought goes through my mind that had never gone through my mind before, which what during this six years of grant of frantic grant writing when I was trying to get tenure. And that thought was, grant writing went well today. That felt good. But when I thought about it, I thought it's not just today, my grant writing seems to have been getting smoother. Like I'm able to focus longer. The sessions feel better to me.
我回过头来反思，想说我不能成为最弱的那个人。我快40岁了，必须做点什么。所以我去了健身房，经过一年半的时间，我成功减掉了25磅，我为自己感到非常自豪，现在也更快乐。我坐在办公室里，做着你我经常做的事情——写NIH研究基金申请，那是我们的命脉，对吧。我不停地写，写，写。然后，我脑海中闪过一个从未有过的念头。在这六年疯狂写基金申请以争取终身职位的过程中，我从未有过这样的想法。这个念头是，今天基金申请写得挺顺利的，这感觉不错。再一想，不只是今天，我发现自己写基金申请似乎变得更顺畅了，我能够更长时间地专注，整个过程对我来说感觉更好了。
And, you know, at that point, the only thing that I changed my life, it was a huge thing. But I had become a Jim Rat, rather than a workaholic. And that's when my, you know, spidey sense for neuroscientists popped up. And I said, what do we know about the effects of exercise on your brain? Because if I think about it, what was better about my writing is I could focus longer and deeper, very important. And I could remember those little details that you try and pull together for your million dollar NIH grant from, you know, 30 different articles that you have open on your screen all at the same time. That's a hippocampal memory. I was studying that. I was writing the grants on, on hippocampal memory. And so that's when I got really interested in the effects of exercise on both prefrontal focus and attention function and hippocampal function.
在那时，我改变生活的唯一事情是一件大事——我变成了一个健身狂，而不是一个工作狂。也就是在那时候，我的"科学家直觉"被触发了。我问自己，我们对锻炼对大脑的影响了解多少？因为仔细想想，我写作水平提高的原因是我能更长时间、更深入地集中注意力，这非常重要。而且我能够记住那些试图从同时打开的30篇文章中提取出来的小细节，这对于获得价值百万美元的NIH拨款至关重要。这就是海马体的记忆，我当时正在研究并撰写有关海马体记忆的拨款。这时我对锻炼对前额叶的专注和注意功能及海马体功能影响产生了浓厚的兴趣。
Because of my own observation and this kind of, I still remember where, where I was sitting, which office I was in when I had this revelation. But the thing that really sealed it for me is right around that time, I got a phone call from my mom, who said that my dad wasn't feeling well and that he had told her that he got lost driving back from the 7-11, which is literally seven blocks from our house that I grew up in. And I knew that was, that was hippocampal function. I suspected dementia. I suspected, though, didn't want to admit Alzheimer's dementia, what she, what she had. My dad is the engineer, not so active all his life, but loved and sit and read books all day. My mom was the athlete. She, she played tennis, team tennis into her 80s. And it started to show at that point.
根据我自己的观察和这种情况，我仍然记得当时的情景，我坐在哪里，在哪个办公室，当我有了这个启示。但真正让我警觉的是大约在同一时间，我接到了我妈妈的电话，她说我爸爸感觉不太好，并告诉她他在从距离我们家仅有7个街区的7-11便利店开车回来的时候迷路了。我意识到这可能与海马体功能有关，怀疑是痴呆症，虽然不愿意承认，但我怀疑是阿尔茨海默症。我爸爸是一名工程师，一辈子都不太活跃，但他喜欢整天坐着看书。而我妈妈是运动员，她打网球，一直到她80多岁时还在打团队网球。这些症状从那时开始显现。
I noticed that all the things that were improving in my brain suddenly went away in my, my dad's brain and I started thinking, this isn't just something to help, you know, somebody who wants to get tenure. This is something that could help millions and millions of people. Most importantly, our aging population. What if, you know, what's happening? And so the thing that makes me wake up in the morning is when I realized that every single time you move your body, you are releasing a whole bunch of neurochemicals. And some of them we've talked about that the good mood comes from dopamine and serotonin in noradrenaline. But the thing that gets released also, particularly with aerobic exercise, is a growth factor called brain derived norotrophic factor or BDNF. And that is so important because what it does is it goes directly to your hippocampus and it helps brand new brain cells grow in your hippocampus.
我注意到，我大脑中所有正在改善的东西在我爸爸的大脑中突然消失了，于是我开始思考，这不仅仅是帮助想要获得终身教职的人。这可能会帮助数以百万计的人，尤其是我们的老龄化人口。那么，这种现象的本质是什么呢？让我每天早上睁开眼睛的理由是了解到每次你运动时，身体会释放出一大堆神经化学物质。其中一些我们已经讨论过，比如多巴胺和血清素造成的好情绪，还有去甲肾上腺素。然而，随着有氧运动，身体还会释放一种叫做脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）的生长因子。这非常重要，因为它会直接进入你的海马体，帮助海马体中新的脑细胞生长。
We all have that, even if you're a couch potato, you can get new brain cells in your hippocampus to grow. But it's like giving your hippocampus a boost with this regular BDNF if you are exercising, which means that we all have the capacity to grow a bigger, fatter fluffier hippocampus. And so what I like to give people is this image of every single time you move your body, it's like giving your brain this wonderful bubble bath of neurochemicals, what's going on? I need my bubble bath of noradrenaline and dopamine and serotonin and growth factors. And with regular bubble baths, what am I doing? I'm growing a big, fat, fluffy hippocampus. And I'm not going to cure my father's dementia, Alzheimer's dementia. But you know what, if I go into my 70s with a big, fat, fluffy hippocampus, even if I had that in my genes and it starts to kick in, it's going to take longer for that disease to start to affect my ability to form and retain you long term memories for facts and events, which is my motivation for getting up and doing my 30 to 45 minutes of aerobic exercise every day.
我们每个人都有这样的潜力，即使你是个宅在沙发上的人，也可以让你的海马体生长出新的脑细胞。但是，如果你进行运动，就像是给你的海马体提供一种常规的“BDNF”促动剂，这意味着我们都有能力让我们的海马体变得更大、更健康、更蓬松。 所以我喜欢给大家这样一个形象：每当你动身体的时候，就像给你的大脑来了次神奇的泡泡浴。这泡泡浴是由神经化学物质组成的，比如去甲肾上腺素、多巴胺、血清素和生长因子。通过定期的“泡泡浴”，我在干什么？我正在让我的海马体变得又大又蓬松。 虽然我无法治愈爸爸的老年痴呆症，但你知道吗？如果我到了70岁时有一个又大又蓬松的海马体，即使我的基因中有老年痴呆症的倾向并开始显现，其对我形成及保持长久记忆的影响也会延迟。这就是我每天坚持做30到45分钟有氧运动的动力所在。
So unless your routine, your routine is 30 to 45 minutes of, are you a Peloton, Cyclur, doesn't matter. The data suggests that as long as your heart rate is getting up for these long term effects on your hippocampus and prefrontal cortex, you also get better at shifting and focusing your attention. For that, you need cardiovascular. And what I use is a video workout. They are 30 minutes that I sometimes add on a 10 to 15 minutes stretch at the beginning or at the end. But I love the variety. Sometimes I do it with weight, sometimes I do it without weights. I love kickboxing. So they have a lot of kickboxing in there. It just fits my, fits my, fits my routine. And it's always there. And I don't have to get all dressed up to go to the gym to work out. So that's what I do.
所以，除非你的健身计划是30到45分钟的训练，否则你是谁家都没关系，比如Peloton或者Cyclur。数据显示，只要你的心率上升，你的大脑海马体和前额叶皮质就会受到长远的积极影响，你在转换和集中注意力方面也会变得更好。为此，你需要做有氧运动。而我使用的是视频锻炼。通常是30分钟，有时候我会在开始或结束时加上10到15分钟的拉伸。我喜欢这种多样性。有时我使用哑铃，有时不使用。我特别喜欢搏击操，所以这里面有很多搏击操课。这非常适合我的日常安排，而且随时可以进行。我不需要特地打扮一番去健身房运动。这就是我的健身方式。
So let's imagine your morning routine. You do your cardiovascular exercise. Okay. So you're pumping more blood. That's the definition of a higher heart rate stroke volume of the heart goes up over time. You're getting fitter. So blood flow, the brain is increasing. Do we know how that gets translated to a signal to release more BDNF? Yeah. Before I go into the aerobic thing, I always like to start with the least amount of exercise to get something really useful. Because I don't want people to say, oh, God, I hate sweating. I don't want to listen anymore. So I always like to start with studies have shown that just 10 minutes of walking outside can shift your mood. That is part of that neurochemical bubble bath that you're getting dopamine serotonin or adrenaline.
让我们想象一下你的早晨日常。你进行心血管运动。好的，这意味着你在加快血液循环。这就是心率提高和心脏搏出量随着时间增加的定义。你的体能在提高，因此大脑的血流量也在增加。我们知道这是如何转化成释放更多BDNF（脑源性神经营养因子）的信号吗？是的。在我深入讨论有氧运动之前，我总是喜欢从最少量的运动开始，这样可以得到真正有用的效果。因为我不希望有人说：“哦，天啊，我讨厌出汗，我不想再听下去了。”所以，我总是喜欢先提到有研究表明，只需在户外步行10分钟就能改善你的情绪。这是你大脑在享受的那种神经化学“泡泡浴”，包括多巴胺、血清素和去甲肾上腺素。
And 10 minutes, and anybody can walk for 10 minutes. And so that is for all of you thinking that out there, what is the minimum that I could get some of these brain effects 10 minutes of walking? That minimum amount of movement in your body can get you those mood effects. But what about the big fat fluffy hippocampus? What about the better performing prefrontal cortex? That's where you start to need the cardio, cardio workout. And from my reading of the literature, there haven't been enough studies, you know, directly comparing contrasting kickboxing with running with whatever, whatever other cardio that you need to do. But any cardio workout that is done has these positive effects. So I'm going to say my interpretation of that is that whatever way you get your heart rate up, including a power walk, a power walk can get your heart rate up. That that is beneficial.
10分钟的步行，每个人都能做到。如果你想知道达到这些脑部效果的最低要求，答案就是10分钟的步行。这么少的运动量就能改善你的情绪。但是，如果你想要一个丰满健康的海马体和表现更好的前额皮质，就需要进行有氧运动。我阅读过的文献中，尚未有足够的研究直接对比踢拳、跑步或其他需要的有氧运动。任何形式的有氧锻炼都有积极的效果。所以，我的理解是，无论你采用什么方式，使心率上升都是有益的，包括快速步行也能达到这个效果。
And what is happening? There are two pathways that have been studied about how you go from moving your body to more BDNF that that neuro trofen that's increasing the growth of new hippocampal brain cells. The two pathways of the following one is a myocaine, which is a protein released by the muscles. So and not your heart. These are striated muscles in your body. And so by running this, these were studies done in rats on running wheels. They showed that the running rats had more of this myocaine released the myocaine past the blood brain barrier. So got into the the rarefied very protected bloodstream of inside the brain. And that myocaine stimulated the release of BDNF in the brain.
正在发生什么呢？有两条途径已经被研究过，这些途径说明了如何通过运动身体来增加BDNF（一种神经营养因子，促进新的海马体脑细胞的生长）。其中一条途径涉及一种称为肌肉因子的蛋白质，这是由肌肉释放的，而不是心脏。这些是你身体里的横纹肌。研究是在跑轮上的大鼠身上进行的，结果显示，进行跑步的大鼠释放了更多的肌肉因子。这种肌肉因子能够穿过血脑屏障，进入大脑内部。这些肌肉因子刺激了脑内释放BDNF。
That's pathway number one pathway number two comes through the liver because exercise is a stress on generally. And how do we know that well cortisol is released whenever we exercise it we need we need that sugar in our blood. And so so that's how the physiological mechanisms work. And so there is a ketone beta hydroxybutyrate that we've known for a very long time that gets released by the liver during exercise. And we also know that that particular ketone passes that blood brain barrier. And it's another stimulant for BDNF. So kind of the final common pathway seems to be BDNF stimulation in the hippocampus.
这是第一个途径。第二个途径是通过肝脏，因为锻炼通常会对身体产生压力。那么我们怎么知道呢？因为每当我们运动时，皮质醇就会释放出来，我们需要血液中的糖分。这就是生理机制的工作原理。因此，有一种酮体叫做β-羟丁酸盐，很早以前我们就知道它在运动时由肝脏释放出来。我们也知道这种特定的酮体可以通过血脑屏障，并且它是脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）的另一种刺激物。所以，好像最终的共同途径是刺激海马体内的BDNF。
Is it the only one? Probably not, but that's the one that has been studied most most clearly. So it's you know it comes from all of our physiological systems. Our muscles working are liver responding to the stress of exercise. And what is it doing? It is making our you know giving more BDNF precursors to get into our brain to cause the up spike of BDNF, which is part of your bubble bath that you're getting every time you move.
这是唯一的吗？可能不是，但这是研究得最清楚的一个。所以，你知道，这来源于我们所有的生理系统。我们的肌肉工作，我们的肝脏对运动压力作出反应。那么它究竟在做什么呢？它是在为我们的身体提供更多的BDNF前体物质，以进入大脑，引起BDNF的急剧增加。每次你运动时，这都是你得到的一部分“泡泡浴”。
This issue of new neurons is one that you hear a lot, you know neurogenesis. You're going to grow new neurons, new neurons. And in my understanding is that the rodent literature is very clear. Running more on a wheel can trigger neurogenesis that literally that the birth of new neurons and the addition of new neurons to the hippocampus. And in humans, I think it's been a bit controversial. Some people say absolutely yes, other people say absolutely no.
这个关于新神经元的问题，也就是神经发生，是一个大家经常听到的话题。你知道，就是长出新神经元，新神经元。根据我的理解，在啮齿动物的研究中已经非常明确。更多地在轮子上跑动可以触发神经发生，也就是说，可以让新神经元产生，并将这些新神经元加入到海马体中。而在人类的研究中，我觉得情况有些争议。有些人绝对认为是这样的，而另一些人则坚决认为不是。
There are new neurons added to the adult brain. I haven't followed that literature down to the detail. Yeah. But I do remember one study that I don't think is contested, which is the work of rusty gauge at the Salc Institute where they actually injected a sort of die type marker into the brains of terminally ill humans. Yeah, who very graciously offered to have their brains removed and dissected after death. Yeah. And in these very in some cases, very old terminally ill humans, they did see evidence for new neurons being born in the hippocampus. Right. Can I trust that idea still is that generally accepted?
成人大脑中会增加新的神经元。我没有深入跟踪这方面的研究。不过，我记得有一个研究，我认为这个研究没有受到争议，那就是萨尔克研究所(Rusty Gage)的研究。在这个研究中，他们向病重临终患者的大脑中注入了一种标记染料。是的，这些非常慷慨的患者在去世后同意捐献他们的大脑进行解剖研究。在这些病重并且有些年龄很大的患者的大脑中，他们确实观察到了海马体中有新神经元生成的证据。那么，我还可以相信这个观点吗？这在一般科学界是被接受的吗？
Well, so after that study, which was quite a while ago, there are more recent studies still controversial, but showing and demonstrating using even new and better techniques than were used in that that original rusty gauge study, which was groundbreaking at the time that that suggest and I think show that there are new neurons born in adult human brains into the ninth decade of life. So they not only did this, I think those patients were in their 60s, then they died of cancer. But these new studies looking across the timeline, can we see?
好，那么在那项研究之后——那是很久以前的研究，现在有更新的研究，尽管仍有争议，但它们使用了比原来那项开创性研究中使用的更先进、更好的技术。这些新研究表明，并且我认为确实显示，成年人类大脑在生命的第九个十年里仍然会产生新的神经元。这些研究不仅仅是进行了一次，我想当时的患者都在60多岁，然后因癌症去世。但这些新的研究纵观时间线，我们能看到吗？
Because the other thing was, yeah, maybe you have some when you're 20, but by the time you're older and you might need these new neurons, you have no new neuron growth. And so these studies seem to suggest that yes, yes, you did. Yes, you do. And we all do even into old age. If you would, could you tell us about some of the more specific effects of exercise on memory? Absolutely. Let me start with kind of the immediate effects, acute effects as they're called of exercise on the brain.
因为另一件事是，是的，也许你在20岁时有一些新神经元的生长，但当你年纪大了，并且可能需要这些新神经元时，你却没有新的神经元生长。然而，这些研究似乎表明，是的，你拥有过，也确实会有。我们大家，即使到了老年，神经元也会继续生长。你能不能告诉我们一些运动对记忆的具体影响呢？当然可以。让我先从运动对大脑的即时影响，也就是所谓的急性影响，说起。
So this is asking, what does a one off exercise session do for your brain? And there are three major effects that have been reproduced. I've seen it in my lab. Many labs have reproduced this. This is usually an aerobic type type exercise session 30, 30 to 45 minutes. What you get is that mood boost, very, very consistent. You get improved prefrontal function, typically tested with a stoop test, which is a test that asks you to shift and focus your attention in specific ways.
这段文字在问，一个单独的一次性运动对你的大脑有什么影响？有三个主要的效果是可以复现的。我在我的实验室里见过，许多实验室也复现过这些效果。通常这是一种有氧运动，持续时间约为30到45分钟。你可以得到的是心情提升，这是非常一致的效果。你的前额叶功能也会得到改善，通常通过斯特鲁普测试来检验，这个测试要求你以特定的方式转移和集中注意力。
It's a challenging task and clearly dependent on the prefrontal cortex largely. And significant improvements in reaction time. So your speed at responding, often a motor kind of, but cognitive motor response is improved. One of the unpublished studies that I did looking at the effects of 30 minutes of age-appropriate work out. In subjects ranging in age from their 20s all the way up to their 90s. So what are the things that I saw most consistently? Irrespective of your age, everybody got a decreased anxiety and depression and hostility score, which is very important.
这是一个具有挑战性的任务，很大程度上依赖于前额叶皮层。此外，反应时间有了显著改善。也就是说，你对刺激的反应速度，通常是一些运动和认知的反应的速度得到了提高。在我进行的一项尚未发表的研究中，我观察了30分钟适龄锻炼的效果，参与者的年龄跨度从20多岁到90多岁。那么我最常看到的结果是什么呢？无论年龄大小，每个人的焦虑、抑郁和敌意评分都有所降低，这非常重要。
So it's not just decreasing your anxiety and depression, but decreasing your hostility levels. Making the world a better place. Making the world a better place. Energy, the feeling of energy went up. And what we found is in the older population, even more than in the younger population, we saw improved performance on both stoop and Erickson Flanker task, which is another task dependent on really focusing in on different letters and paying attention to what letters being shown. So these are consistent effects. How long do they last? One of the studies that I did publish in my lab showed that the immediate effects of exercise lasted up to two hours. Unfortunately, that was the longest that we last, they were still there at two hours. So that's a pretty big bang for your buck. That is. One 30 minute.
这不仅仅是减轻焦虑和抑郁，还能降低敌意水平。这样可以让世界变得更美好。在进行一项活动后，我们的能量感也提升了。我们发现，在老年人中，甚至比年轻人更加明显的是，他们在Stroop测试和Eriksen Flanker测试（这是一种需要专注于不同字母并注意显示哪些字母的测试）中表现得更好。这些都是一致的效果。它们能持续多久呢？我在实验室发表的一项研究表明，运动后的即时效果可以持续长达两个小时。不幸的是，这是我们记录到的最长时间。但这已经是相当值回票价了。也就是说，只需30分钟的运动即可。
So what this tells me is that exercising early in the day may have a special effect. Right. I know there are moms and dads out there and they just say, look, I have a kid that the kid's more important than my doing my exercise. So you will get benefits if you do it whenever, whenever you can. So that's great. More power to you. But what all the neuroscience data suggests is the best time to do your exercise is right before you need to use your brain in the most important way that you need to use it every day. And so that is why the morning for most of us is beneficial. That's why I do it in the morning. I'm lucky enough to be able to do that.
这段话的大意是，早晨锻炼可能有特殊的效果。作者了解很多父母因为孩子而难以抽出时间锻炼，因此认为什么时候能锻炼都好，这样做也有好处。但所有的神经科学数据表明，最好的锻炼时间是要在一天中需要大量动脑的活动之前进行。所以对大多数人来说，早晨锻炼是有益的，这也是作者选择早晨锻炼的原因，并且觉得自己很幸运能够做到这一点。
I also want to emphasize, I'd love to get your thoughts on just memory and memory loss in general. Yeah. You know, my understanding of the literature is that somewhere in our 50s or 60s, we start noticing little hiccups in memory. But I have to imagine that doing the exercise throughout one's entire life is going to help offset some of this. Absolutely. Simply because you're the BDNF and other downstream effects. Yeah. First I want to share one of my favorite studies, which is a longitudinal study done in Swedish women. And this was published in 2018. And what they did was back in the 1960s, they found Swedish women, 300 Swedish women in their 40s. And they characterized them as low fit, mid fit, high fit. And then 40 years later, they came back and found these women. They let them do live their lives. And they asked what happened to these women as a function of whether they were low fit, mid fit, high fit in their 40s. They're now in their 80s.
我也想强调一下，我很想听听你对记忆和记忆丧失的看法。我的理解是，研究表明我们在50多岁或60多岁时，会开始注意到记忆上的一些小问题。但我认为如果一生中一直坚持锻炼，会有助于减缓这些问题的出现。这是因为锻炼能提高大脑源性神经营养因子（BDNF）以及其他相关的积极影响。首先，我想分享一个我最喜欢的研究，这是在瑞典女性中进行的一项长期研究，发表于2018年。在1960年代，他们找到了300名40多岁的瑞典女性，并根据她们的身体素质将其分类为低、中、高三类。然后40年后，他们再次找到这些女性，任由她们过自己的生活，并记录了她们在这种分类体系下的生活轨迹。当时这些女性已经80多岁了。
And what they found was that relative to the low fit or mid fit women, the women that were high fit, gained nine more years of good cognition later in life. Now, this is not a randomized control study. This is a correlational study. But does it agree with everything that we've been talking about today? Yes. Does it agree with this idea that the women that were high fit were giving their brains this bubble bath very, very regularly for that entire 40 years? And that built up their big, that beautiful hippocampai. Yes, it does. So that's one of my favorite studies. Yeah. Another cause for getting the exercise inconsistently. Yes. So when I jumped into the exercise work, everybody was studying people 65 or older because that's when cognitive decline begins. And if the idea is exercise can help you with your cognition, then it makes sense.
他们发现，与低体能或中等体能的女性相比，体能较高的女性在晚年可以多享受九年的良好认知状态。不过，这并不是一项随机对照研究，而是一项相关性研究。但这是否与我们今天讨论的内容一致呢？是的。它是否支持这样的观点：体能较高的女性常年坚持运动，就像给大脑做“泡泡浴”，从而增强了海马体功能？是的，这是我最喜欢的研究之一。这也说明了不定期锻炼可能带来的好处。当我开始研究锻炼对认知的影响时，发现大家都在研究65岁或以上的人群，因为认知能力一般从这个年龄开始下降，如果锻炼能够帮助认知保持，意义就非常大。
However, I thought, well, you know, that it's great. There's lots of work there. I wanted to know what happens in people in their 40s and the 50s, maybe even their 30s and their 20s. Why? Because that's when we as humans are able, ready willing and able to increase our exercise and gets us set up to, you know, build our brains as we go into our 60s. And so the first study that I did looked at low fit participants from their 30s to mid 50s. And we wanted to ask this question, you know, how much exercise do you really need to start seeing benefits? Do you see benefits or maybe you have to wait until you start seeing cognitive decline to get benefits? That was one of the theories out there. And so that's what I wanted to do.
然而，我认为，这真是太好了。这方面有很多研究工作。我想了解在四五十岁的人们中会发生什么，甚至三十多岁和二十多岁的人也包括在内。为什么？因为这是我们作为人类最能够并且愿意增加运动的时期，这为我们在步入六十岁时锻炼大脑打下基础。因此，我进行的第一项研究关注的对象是三十多岁到五十多岁之间体能较低的人群。我们想问的是，你到底需要多少运动才能看到好处？你能看到好处，还是必须等到认知能力开始下降时才能获得好处？这就是其中一个理论，而我想要研究的正是这个问题。
And so what we did was three months of two to three times a week, cardio. It was a spin, spin class. So spin classes are great for cardio. And the comparison group was two to three times a week of competitive video scrabble. So no heart rate changed, but they had to come into my lab and being a group, just like they were in a group for the spin class. We tested them cognitively at the beginning of the end of the session. What we found was two to three times a week of cardio. In these people, there were low fit, which means specifically that they were exercising less than 30 minutes a week for the three months previous to the experiment. So they went from that to two to three times a week of spin class.
我们进行了为期三个月的实验，每周进行两到三次有氧锻炼，通过参加动感单车课程来实现。动感单车课程对有氧锻炼非常有帮助。对比组则是每周两到三次进行竞技电子游戏拼字比赛。他们的心率没有变化，但他们需要像上动感单车课一样，以小组形式进入实验室。我们在实验开始和结束时对他们进行了认知测试。我们发现，每周进行两到三次有氧运动的参与者以前的体能水平较低，也就是说在实验前的三个月里，他们每周锻炼时间不到30分钟。而在我们的实验中，他们改为每周参加两到三次动感单车课程。
And what we found was changes in baseline rates of their positive mood states went up relative to the video scrabble group. Their body image got more positive because they were exercising, which is great. And really important, their motivation to exercise went up significantly compared to the video scrabble group, which is great. So the more you exercise, the more motivated you are to exercise.
我们发现，相较于玩视频拼字游戏的那组，人们积极情绪的基准水平提高了。他们的身体形象也变得更积极，因为他们进行了锻炼，这非常好。而且更重要的是，他们的运动动机相较于视频拼字游戏组显著上升，这非常棒。所以，你运动得越多，锻炼的动力就越大。
What about cognition, what changed in the cognitive circuits of their brain? Number one, we got improved performance on the stoop task. But we're headed towards my favorite structure, which is the hippocampus. What we found was improved performance on both a recognition memory task, which was a memory encoding task. And that is, can you differentiate similar items that we're asking you to remember? And a spatial episodic memory task where we had them play one of those doom-like games when they went into this spatial maze and they had to do things in a virtual city. Their performance there got better, which is very, very classically dependent on the hippocampus.
关于认知方面，大脑的认知回路发生了哪些变化呢？首先，我们观察到他们在斯特鲁普任务上的表现有所提高。但我们更关注的是我最喜欢的结构——海马体。我们的研究发现，他们在识别记忆任务和空间情节记忆任务上的表现都有所提升。识别记忆任务主要是记忆编码任务，让你辨别需要记住的相似物品。而在空间情节记忆任务中，我们让他们玩一种类似《毁灭战士》的游戏，在虚拟城市中穿越空间迷宫并完成任务。他们在这些任务中的表现都得到了改善，而这些任务的表现通常都与海马体密切相关。
It was so satisfying to do this study because I've been wanting to answer this question. What is a minimum amount or a doable amount of exercise that will get you these cognitive benefits? And now I can say in 30 to 50-year-olds that are low fit two to three times a week, is that doable? Absolutely. Will it be hard if you're low fit? Yeah, it's going to be challenging, but absolutely doable. This is not like you have to become a marathon runner to get any of these benefits. This is, you have to start moving your body on a regular basis two to three times a week.
进行这项研究让我感到非常满意，因为我一直想回答这个问题：锻炼的最低量是多少，或者说做多少运动才能获得认知上的益处？现在我可以说，对于30到50岁、身体状况较差的人来说，每周进行两到三次锻炼是可以做到的。这样做难吗？是的，对于体能较差的人来说会有挑战，但是绝对可行。这并不是说你必须成为马拉松选手才能获得这些好处。你只需要每周定期运动两到三次。
How long are those sessions again? 45 minutes. Yeah, 45 minutes, warm up for five minutes and a cool down for five minutes. So it's really 35 minutes, 35 minutes of, you know, they're really pushing you. Yeah. The second study that I wanted to share is part two of that study that I just described, which was the low fit people.
那些课程时长是多少来着？是45分钟。对，45分钟，包含5分钟的热身和5分钟的冷却。所以实际上是35分钟，35分钟高强度的训练，真的很有挑战性。对。我想分享的第二个研究是我刚才提到的研究的第二部分，这次是关于低体能者的。
Next we move to mid fit people. Like what about us? You know, we're already exercising. How am I going to benefit from increasing my exercise? So here again, we collaborated with a great spin studio that had a whole bunch of mid fit people that, that by our definition, were exercising two to three times a week on a regular basis. That's great. All you people out there that are doing that, you should know you're already benefiting your brain.
接下来，我们来谈谈中等健身水平的人。比如说像我们这些人呢？你知道吗，我们已经在锻炼了。那么我该如何通过增加锻炼来获益呢？在这方面，我们再次与一家很棒的动感单车健身工作室合作，这家工作室有很多中等健身水平的人，根据我们的定义，他们每周定期锻炼两到三次。这很棒。所有正在这样做的人，你们应该知道，你们已经在让自己的大脑受益了。
But our question was, what if we invited them to exercise as much as they wanted at the spin studio for three months from, you know, two to three times all the way up to seven times a week. And let's just see what happened. And the control group. We asked them not to change their exercise. And so what we ended up with was a nice big array of starting with mid fit people that exercise between staying at two to three times a week all the way up to seven times a week.
我们的疑问是，如果我们邀请他们在动感单车健身房进行为期三个月的锻炼，频率从每周两三次到每周七次不等，会发生什么呢？于是我们决定看看结果如何。而对于对照组，我们要求他们不要改变自己的锻炼习惯。最终，我们得到了一组较为多样的人群，有些人每周锻炼两到三次，而有些人则增加到每周七次，这帮助我们进行观察和分析。
And the bottom line from that study is every drop of sweat counted. That is the more you change and you increase your workout up to seven times a week, the better your mood was. You had lower, lower amounts of depression and anxiety, higher amounts of good, good affect. And the better your hippocampal memory was with the more you worked out. Again, this was for three months.
这项研究的结论是，每一滴汗水都很重要。也就是说，您每周锻炼的次数最多可以增加到七天，您的情绪就会越好。抑郁和焦虑的程度会降低，积极的情绪会增加。而且，每周锻炼越多，海马体的记忆力就越好。这项研究的持续时间是三个月。
So I love that too because it gives power to those of us that are, you know, regularly exercising and wondering, do I really need to, I mean, is it really going to help me? And the answer is yes. I mean, not all of us can exercise, go to a spin class seven times a week. But I love the message that our bodies are responsive to that.
我也非常喜欢这一点，因为它让我们这些经常锻炼的人有了动力。有时候我们会想，我真的需要这样做吗？锻炼真的会对我有帮助吗？答案是肯定的。当然，不是每个人都能每周参加七次动感单车课。但是我很喜欢这样的理念，我们的身体对锻炼是有反应的。
And you can get better hippocampal function, better overall baseline mood affect with a higher level. So it works for the mid fit people as well. What is if any, the value of affirmation of telling yourself something positive about yourself or of exercise on not the exercise itself. But on mood, self-image, memory, and brain function.
你可以通过更高水平的锻炼获得更好的海马体功能和整体情绪基线。因此，这对中等健身水平的人也有效。那么，自我肯定，比如告诉自己一些积极的事情，或者锻炼（不只是锻炼本身）对情绪、自我形象、记忆和大脑功能有什么价值？
Yeah, I looked into this because I am also a certified exercise instructor in the form of exercise that I teach is called Intensati. That it's a form of exercise that was developed by this amazing fitness instructor, Patricia Moreno. And she combined physical movements from kickbox and dance and yoga and martial arts with positive spoken and physical movements from kickbox and dance and yoga and martial arts. With positive spoken affirmations.
是的，我研究过这个，因为我自己也是一名经过认证的健身教练，我教授的运动形式叫做Intensati。这种运动形式是由一位非常出色的健身教练Patricia Moreno开发的。她将踢拳、舞蹈、瑜伽和武术的肢体动作与积极的口头肯定语结合在一起。
So each move if you're punching back and forth as you would do in a kickbox class, you don't just punch. You say something like, I am strong now, which every punch is associated with the word. And you know, you can create your own series of affirmations with the moves that you put together. There's something about the declaration using your own voice of saying things that you, you know, don't often say yourself, like, I'm strong, I'm inspired. I believe I will succeed or all the kinds of affirmations you say.
所以，每次出拳时，就像在踢拳课上那样来回出拳，你不仅仅是出拳。你可以说一些像“我现在很强壮”这样的话，每个拳头都和一个词语相联系。你可以根据自己组合的动作，创造一系列属于自己的肯定句。有些话你平时很少说，但用自己的声音宣告出来，比如“我很强壮”、“我受到启发”、“我相信我会成功”等各种肯定句，会有特别的意义。
And so I started to look into what was known about affirmations. And it was clear that there was a literature showing that that positive affirmations, saying them or reading them, could change mood. It really gets you into a habit of saying good things about yourself. And then you start to remember, start to realize, oh my god, I'm so mean to myself. I have lots of negative thoughts going on about about myself in my head.
于是我开始研究关于肯定语的相关知识。很明显，有大量文献表明，积极的肯定语，无论是说出来还是阅读，都可以改变情绪。它能让你养成对自己说好话的习惯。然后你就会开始注意到、意识到“天哪，我对自己太苛刻了。”你会发现自己头脑中有很多负面的想法。
And which was part of the other reason why I loved this, this particular form of exercise. So what you get in intensity is the mood boost from the positive spoken affirmations together with all the other brain and affect boosts that we've been talking about for this whole podcast from the exercise because it's a sweaty workout as well.
这也是我喜欢这种特定形式锻炼的另一个原因。除了锻炼本身的好处外，你还会从积极的口头肯定中获得情绪提升，因为这是一种出汗的锻炼方式。我们在整个播客中讨论过，这种锻炼能给大脑和情绪带来多重提升。
So interesting. I'd like to touch on meditation. Yeah. Sounds like you've discovered a minimum, a close to minimum threshold and meditation that can really benefit us. So maybe you tell us about that, that study.
好有趣。我想谈谈冥想。听起来你发现了一种能真正对我们有益的最低限度的冥想标准。也许你可以给我们讲讲那个研究。
Yeah, very practical study. Just 10 minutes, not 30 minutes, not an hour meditation. That's too hard. 10 minutes guided meditation, a, it's a body scan, very basic, but easy to follow, kind of meditation. We looked at cognitive effects before and after this, it was eight weeks of daily, it was actually 12 minute meditation, 12 minutes of body scan meditation. And what we found was significant decreases in stress response.
是的，这是一个非常实用的研究。只需10分钟，而不是30分钟或一个小时的冥想。那样太难了。这是10分钟的引导冥想，是一种身体扫描的冥想，非常基础，但很容易跟随。我们在冥想前后观察了认知效果，这是一个为期八周的每日冥想，实际上是12分钟的身体扫描冥想。我们发现压力反应显著减少。
So we did the strior stress stress test to see how, how you responded to an unexpected stressful situation. The meditators did much better. Their mood was better and their, their cognitive performance was also better. I know there's so much evidence that meditation is beneficial.
我们进行了压力测试，以观察您如何应对意想不到的压力情况。结果显示，常做冥想的人表现得更好。他们情绪更好，认知能力表现也更出色。我知道有很多证据表明冥想是有益的。
Yes. How do you think it's working or what do you think it's doing? I think that one of the most important things that gets worked when we are doing a simple 10 minute or 12 minute body scan meditation regularly, this 10 minutes a day, 12 minutes a day. Is the habit building and the practice of focusing on the present moment.
是的。你觉得它的效果如何，或者你认为它的作用是什么？我认为，当我们每天坚持进行一次简单的10分钟或12分钟的身体扫描冥想时，最重要的事情之一就是培养习惯和专注于当下的练习。每天花10到12分钟，在于建立习惯并训练自己专注在当下。
I think that is very hard for us modern humans to do. If you know how to do that, that gives you this powerful tool for the rest of your day. You're not locked into that fearful future thinking that so many of us have or that, that, that, just reliving of a terrible past. But you could enjoy, enjoy the present moment.
我认为这对我们现代人来说是很难做到的。如果你知道如何去做，那就会给你提供一个在余下的时间里非常强大的工具。你就不会困在对未来的恐惧幻想中，或者不断重温糟糕的过去。相反，你可以享受当下的每一刻。
Are there any other things besides exercise and meditation that you would like to see people do in terms of trying to increase their powers of attention? So I would say the top three tools that everybody, right this minute today, can use to up their capacity to attend where they want to include exercise.
除了锻炼和冥想之外，你还希望大家在提高注意力方面尝试做什么其他事情吗？目前我会建议大家利用包括锻炼在内的三种主要工具，以提高他们的注意力。
For the reasons we've talked about, it has a direct effect on functioning of the prefrontal cortex meditation. Also clear clinical studies showing improved ability to focus and particularly focus on the present moment. And the third has to be sleep. It is so important for all core cognitive functions, including attention, including creativity, including just good basic brain function.
我们之前讨论的原因表明，它直接影响前额叶皮质的功能冥想。还有明确的临床研究显示冥想能提高注意力，尤其是专注于当下的能力。第三点必须提到的是睡眠。它对所有核心认知功能都非常重要，包括注意力、创造力，以及良好的基本大脑功能。
So exercise, meditation, sleep can help you learn, retain and perform better than if you do not have these three things in your life. Wendy, thank you so much for your leadership in the university system, for your leadership in public education, for the decades of important work on memory and neural circuitry, which we've got to learn about today as well.
锻炼、冥想和睡眠可以帮助你更好地学习、记忆和表现，这比没有这三种生活习惯要好得多。温迪，非常感谢你在大学系统中所展现的领导力，你在公共教育领域的领导力，以及你在记忆和神经回路方面的几十年重要工作，我们今天也了解了这些。
Thank you ever so much. Thank you, Andrew. Fun conversation.
非常感谢。谢谢你，Andrew。这次对话很有趣。