Joe Rogan Experience #2422 - Jensen Huang

发布时间 2025-12-03 18:00:04 来源

中英文字稿

I Joe Rogan experience We were just talking about was that the first time we ever spoke or did was the first time we spoke at SpaceX SpaceX SpaceX first time when you were giving Elon that crazy AI chip right did you export? Yeah, oh that was a big moment That was a huge that felt crazy to be there. I was like watching these wizards of tech like exchange Information and and you're giving him this crazy device, you know, and then the other time was I was shooting arrows in my backyard and Randomly get this call from Trump and he's hanging out with you President Trump call and I called you Yeah, it's just we were talking about you It's just talking about you it was talking about the US UFC thing. He's gonna do in his print yard Yeah, and he pulls out he's just look at this design He's so proud of it and I go you're gonna have a fight in the front lawn in the White House He goes yeah, yeah, you're gonna come this is gonna be awesome

翻译：这是《乔·罗根体验》。我们刚谈到的，是我们第一次交流的时候吗？或者说，是我们第一次在SpaceX碰面，那时你正在给埃隆带来那个疯狂的AI芯片。对，那是个大时刻。这感觉就像在看科技巫师们在交换信息，而你把那个神奇的设备给他。还有一次，我在自家后院射箭，突然接到特朗普的电话。他当时正和你在一起。是特朗普总统打来的，他还让我给你打电话。我们正谈到你，谈到他在白宫外院要举办的UFC比赛。他拿出来设计图，显得特别自豪。我问他，你真的要在白宫草坪上办比赛吗？他说，没错，你一定要来，这会非常精彩。

And he's showing his design how beautiful it is and he goes and somehow your name comes up he goes Do you know Joe? Yeah, I'm gonna be on his podcast He's let's call him He's like a kid I know let's call it so he like a style to your old kid. He's something trouble Yeah, he's a odd guy Just very different, you know like the what you'd expect from him very different than what people think of him And also just very different as a president like I would just call your text you out of the blue Also, he makes when you text he text you you have an android so it won't go through with you But with my iPhone he makes the text go big like you know, right USA's respected again like All caps and it makes the the the text in large. It's kind of ridiculous.

他在展示他的设计有多漂亮，然后谈话中不知怎么就提到了你的名字。他问：“你认识乔吗？” 我回答：“是的，我会参加他的播客。” 他提议：“那我们打电话给他吧。” 他就像个小孩一样兴奋地说：“我知道了，打电话给他吧。” 他看上去有点麻烦，是个奇怪的人。与人们对他的预期完全不同，他的个性很独特，尤其是作为总统时表现得非常不同。有时候他会突然给你发短信，如果你用的是安卓系统，他的短信就收不到，但如果是我的iPhone，他发的短信会非常大，比如“美国又受尊重了”，都是全大写字母，字体也巨大，看起来有点滑稽。

Well The the one on one Trump President Trump is very different. He surprised me First of all, he's an incredibly good listener Almost everything I've ever said to him. He's remembered Yeah, people don't they only want to look at negative Stories about him or negative narratives about him, you know You can catch anybody on a bad day like there's a lot of things he does where I don't think he should do I don't think he should say to report reporter quiet piggy like that's pretty ridiculous

与特朗普总统的一对一交流给我留下了不同的印象。他令我感到惊讶，首先他是一个非常出色的倾听者。我对他说过的几乎所有事情，他都记得。很多人只关注他的负面故事或负面形象，但你知道，任何人都有状态不好的一天。他有些行为确实让我觉得不该做，比如对记者说“安静，小猪”这样的言论，我觉得有点荒唐。

Also Objectively funny. I mean, it's unfortunate that it happened to her I wouldn't want that to happen to her, but it was funny Just ridiculous that the president does that. I wish he didn't do that But other than that like he's he's an interesting guy like he's a lot of different things wrapped up into one person, you know In a part of part of his charm or part of his genius is yes, he says what's on his mind? Yes, and this is also a typo politician Yeah, right so you know what's on this mind is really what's on his mind Which I tell you what he prefers I do I look at some people some people would rather be lied to yeah, but but I like the fact that he's telling you

翻译如下：另外，这件事客观上来说也很滑稽。我是说，这样的事情发生在她身上确实很不幸，我也不希望这样的事情发生在她身上，但确实很搞笑。就是总统做了这种荒唐的事情，我真希望他没有这样做。不过除此之外，他确实是个有趣的人，像是把很多不同的特质集合在一个人身上。可以说，他的魅力或天才之一就是他敢于直言不讳。对，这是一个口误的政治家。对，所以你知道他在想什么就真的是他在想的。我必须说，我更喜欢这种真实的表达。我知道有些人宁愿被人撒谎，但我更欣赏他能直接告诉你。

What's on his mind almost every time he explains something he says something? He starts with his you could tell his love for America what he wants to do for America and everything that he thinks through is very practical and very common sense and you know, it's very logical and I still remember the first time I met him and so this was I never known him never met him before and Secretary Lutton had called and we met right before right at the beginning of the administration He said he told me what was important to present Trump that and that That United States manufacturers on shore and that was really important to him because Because it's important to national security

他几乎每次解释事情时，都把他的想法表达得清楚。你可以看出他对美国的热爱，以及他想为美国做些什么。他所思考的一切都非常务实和常识性，逻辑也很清晰。我仍然记得第一次见到他，那时候我以前不认识他。国务卿Lutton打电话联系过，我们在政府刚开始的时候见面。他告诉我，对特朗普总统来说重要的是让美国的制造业回流国内，这是对他非常重要的事情，因为这对国家安全非常重要。

He wants to make sure that that the important critical technology of our nation is built in United States and That we re-industrialize and get good at manufacturing again because it's important for jobs It just seems like common sense right incredible common sense and almost like literally the first conversation I had with secretary Luttonick and And he was talking about how how That he started he started our conversation with Jensen this is secretary Luttonick and I just want to let you know that you're a national treasure And video is a national treasure and Whenever you need access to The president The administration you call us.

他希望确保我们国家的重要关键技术是在美国制造的，并且我们需要重新工业化，重新提高制造业水平，因为这对就业非常重要。这似乎是常识，对吧？一种难以置信的常识。这几乎是我和卢特尼克部长的第一次对话，他提到，他们开始对话时说：“詹森，这里是卢特尼克部长，我想告诉你，你是国家的瑰宝，视频产业也是国家的瑰宝。无论何时需要与总统或政府沟通，都可以联系我们。”

We're always going to be available to you Literally, that was the first sentence that's pretty nice and it was completely true Every single time I called if I needed something Want to get something off my chest Express some concern. They're always available Incredible. It's just unfortunate.

我们一直都会为你提供帮助。确实如此，这是他们说的第一句话，非常贴心，而且完全属实。每次我打电话需要帮助的时候，无论是想倾诉烦恼还是表达担忧，他们总是能及时响应，实在令人惊叹。只是有些遗憾。

We live in such a politically polarized society that you can't recognize good common sense things If they're coming from a person that you object to and that I think is what's going on here I think most people generally as a country you know as a Giant community which we are it just only makes sense That we have Manufacturing in America that especially critical technology like you're talking about like it's kind of insane That we buy so much technology from other countries if United States doesn't grow We will have no prosperity We can invest in anything domestically or otherwise we can't fix any of our problems If we don't have energy growth We can't have industrial growth if we don't have industrial growth we can't have job growth

我们生活在一个政治极端分化的社会，以致于人们无法识别那些来自自己反对的人的合理建议。我认为这就是目前的情况。作为一个国家，作为一个庞大的社区，我认为大多数人普遍都有这样的共识：在美国进行制造业生产是有意义的，尤其是对于像你所提到的这些关键技术。这种状况有些不合理，我们从其他国家购买了如此多的技术。如果美国自身不发展，我们将无法获得繁荣，也无法在国内或其他地方进行投资，更无法解决任何问题。没有能源增长，就无法实现工业增长；而没有工业增长，就无法实现就业增长。

These are it's a simple as that right and the fact that the fact that he came into office and the first thing that he said was Drill baby drill his point is we need energy growth without energy growth We can have no industrial growth and that was it saved it saved the AI industry I got I got to tell you flat out if not for his Pro-growth energy policy We would not be able to build factories or AI would not be able to build chip factories We won't share but surely won't be able to build super computer factories none of that stuff would be possible without all of that Construction jobs will be challenged right electrical you know electrician jobs all of these jobs that are now flourishing We'd be challenged and so I think he's got a right we need energy growth

这很简单明了。他上任后的第一件事就是主张“钻探，兄弟，钻探”。他的观点是，我们需要能源增长，没有能源增长，就没有工业增长。正是他的措施拯救了人工智能行业。我必须坦率地说，如果没有他的支持增长的能源政策，我们将无法建造工厂，人工智能也无法建造芯片工厂。不仅如此，我们也不能建造超级计算机工厂，如果没有这些，所有的建筑工作都会受到挑战，电工等职业也会面临困境。而现在这些职业正在蓬勃发展。因此，我认为他是正确的，我们需要能源增长。

We want to re-industrialize the United States we need to be back in manufacturing Every successful person doesn't need to have a PhD every successful person doesn't have to have gone to Stanford or in my tea and I think I think that that That you know that sensibility is spot on Now when we're talking about technology growth and energy growth There's a lot of people that go oh no that's not what we need we need to you know simplify our lives and get back But the the real issue is that we're in the middle of a giant technology race and Whether people are aware of it or not whether they like it or not it's happening and it's a really important race because whoever gets to whatever the event horizon of Artificial intelligence is

我们希望美国重新工业化，我们需要重回制造业。每个成功的人并不需要拥有博士学位，也无需都毕业于斯坦福大学或麻省理工。我认为这种观点是非常准确的。当谈到科技和能源的增长时，很多人可能会说：“不，这不是我们需要的，我们需要简化生活，回归本真。” 但实际上，我们正处于一场巨大的科技竞赛中，不论人们是否意识到，不论他们是否喜欢，这场竞赛正在发生，而且非常重要，因为谁能率先到达人工智能的某个关键点，都会在这场竞赛中具有优势。

Whoever gets their first has massive advantages in a huge way You agree with that well first the part I will say that we are in a technology race and we are always in a technology race We've been in a technology race with somebody forever right right since the industrial revolution We've been in a technology man had a project. Yeah, or or you know even going back to the discovery of energy right The United Kingdom was where the Industrial revolution was if you will invent it when they realized that they can turn steam and such into it into energy and electricity

谁先到达，就会在很大程度上占据巨大的优势。你同意这一点吗？首先，我想说的是，我们正处于一场技术竞赛中，而我们一直都在进行技术竞赛。从工业革命以来，我们就一直在与其他人展开技术竞赛。无论是从能够将蒸汽转化为能源和电力的那一刻在英国开启的工业革命，还是更久远的，涉及能量发现的时刻，我们一直以来都有人类的科技项目在进行。

All of that was invented largely in Europe and United States capitalized on it We were the ones that learned from it. We industrialized it. We diffused it faster than anybody in Europe. They were all stuck in discussions about policy and Jobs and disruptions Meanwhile the United States was forming we just took the technology and ran with it And so I I think we were always in a bit of a technology race what were two was a technology race Man in project was a technology race. We've been in the technology race ever since during the Cold War I think we're still in a technology race.

这一切主要是在欧洲发明的，而美国充分利用了这些发明。我们是那些从中学习的人。我们将其工业化，并且比欧洲的任何地方扩散得更快。他们都困在政策、就业和变革的讨论中，而与此同时，美国正在形成，我们只是拿起这些技术并迅速发展。因此，我认为我们一直处于某种技术竞赛中。第二次世界大战是一场技术竞赛，曼哈顿计划是一场技术竞赛。自冷战以来，我们一直处于技术竞赛中。我认为我们现在仍然在一场技术竞赛中。

It is probably the single most important race. It is the technology is It gives you superpowers You know whether it's information superpowers or energy superpowers or Military superpowers is all founded in technology and so technology leadership is really important Well, the problem is if somebody else has superior technology, right? Yeah, that's the issue It's right. It seems like with the AI race People are very nervous about it like you know Elon has famously said that it's like 80% chance.

这可能是最重要的一场竞赛。这就是科技赋予你的力量，无论是信息上的超级能力、能源上的超级能力还是军事上的超级能力，这些都建立在科技的基础上。因此，科技领先地位非常重要。问题在于，如果别人拥有更先进的技术，这就是个大问题。看起来在人工智能竞赛中，人们对此非常紧张，比如埃隆·马斯克就曾著名地表示这种情况有80%的可能性。

It's awesome 20% chance we're in trouble and people are worried about that 20% rightly so I mean that you know if you had 10 bullets in a revolver and You know you took out eight of them You still have two in there and you spin it. You're not gonna feel real comfortable when you pull that trigger It's terrifying right and when you were working towards this ultimate goal of AI It's just it's Impossible to imagine that it wouldn't be of national security interest to get there first

这段话大意是：现在有20%的可能性我们会遇到麻烦，人们对此感到担忧，这是完全合理的。就像在一个装有10颗子弹的左轮手枪中取出8颗子弹，你还剩下2颗，然后旋转枪膛。当你扣动扳机时，你不会感到舒服。这是很可怕的。对于人工智能这一终极目标，显然很难想象这不会成为各国竞争的焦点，因为率先实现这一目标肯定涉及到国家安全利益。

We should the question is what's there? That's the that was the part that is there. Yeah, I'm not sure That's the problem. I don't think anybody is really knows that's crazy though. If I ask you Yeah, you're the head of Nvidia. Yeah, you don't know. Yeah, what's there? Who knows? Yeah, I think it's probably gonna be much more gradual than we think is well, it won't be a moment It won't be it won't be as if Somebody arrived and nobody else has I don't think it's gonna be like that. I think it's gonna be Things that just get better and better and better better just like technology.

我们应该问的问题是：那里有什么？那是一个存在的问题。是的，我不确定这是什么问题。我觉得没有人真正知道，那真是太疯狂了。如果我问你，你是英伟达的负责人，你也不知道那里有什么。谁会知道呢？我认为这可能会比我们想象的渐进得多，不会是一个突发的时刻，也不会是某人达到而其他人没有。我不认为会是这样的。我认为事情会像技术一样不断改进和提升。

So you are rosy about the future You're you're very optimistic about what's gonna happen with AI Obviously, will you make the best AI chips in the world? You probably better be I if history is a guide We were always concerned about new technology Humanity has always been concerned about new technology. They're always somebody who's thinking There always a lot of people who are quite concerned were quite concerned and and so if if history is a guide It is the case That all of this concern is channeled into making the technology safer and so for example In the last several years, I would say AI technology has increased probably In the last two years alone, maybe a hundred X. Let's just give it a number Okay, it's like a car two years ago was a hundred times slower So AI is a hundred times more capable today now.

所以你对未来充满信心，对人工智能的发展持非常乐观的态度。显然，你们是全球最优秀的AI芯片制造商，所以乐观是应该的。如果历史可以作为参考的话，我们一直对新技术心存忧虑。人类总是对新技术感到担忧，很多人心存顾虑。因此，如果历史证明了这一点，所有这些担忧实际上都被引导用于让技术变得更安全。例如，我认为在过去几年中，AI技术的进步非常迅速，仅在过去两年，可能AI的能力就提升了一百倍。换句话说，现在的人工智能比两年前快了一百倍。

How did we channel that technology? How do we channel all of that power? We directed it to Causing the AI to be able to think Meaning that it can take a problem that we give it break it down step by step It does research before it answers and so it grounds it on truth It'll reflect on that answer Ask itself is this the best? You know answer that I can give you and my certain about this answer if it's not certain about the answer or highly confident about the answer You'll go back and do more research It might actually even use a tool because that tool provides a better solution than it could hallucinate itself As a result, we took all of that computing capability And we channeled it into Having it produce a safer result safer answer a more truthful answer because as you know One of the greatest criticisms of AI in the beginning was that hallucinated right and so if you look at the reason why people use AI so much today Is because the amount of hallucination has reduced.

我们是如何利用那项技术的？我们又是如何将所有的力量引导到一个方向的？我们将其用于让人工智能能够思考。这意味着它可以将我们给它的问题逐步分解，并在回答之前进行研究，从而以事实为基础。它会对答案进行反思，问自己这是不是我能给出的最佳答案，我对这个答案是否确定。如果它对答案不确定或信心不足，它会返回去做更多的研究。它甚至可能使用一种工具，因为该工具提供的解决方案比它自己凭空想象的要好。结果，我们将所有的计算能力引导为产生更安全的结果、更真实的答案。正如你所知，人工智能最初被批评的一点就是它容易“幻觉”。如今，人们大量使用人工智能的原因之一就是“幻觉”的情况减少了。

You know, I use it almost I well, I use the whole trip over here and so so I think the The capability most people think about power And they think about you know, maybe it's an explosion power But the technology power most of it is channeled towards safety a car today is more powerful, but it's safer to drive A lot of that power goes towards better handling You know, I rather have a Well, you have a thousand horsepower truck. I think 500 horsepower is pretty good now. I thousand better I think a thousand is better. I don't know what's better, but it's definitely faster. Yeah, no, I think it's better I get out of trouble faster I enjoyed my 599 more than my 612 It was I think it was better better and more horsepower is better My 459 is better than my 430 More horsepower is better. I think more horse higher is better.

你知道，我几乎一直在使用它，我在整个旅程中都在使用。所以我认为大多数人谈到动力时，可能会想到爆炸性的力量，但实际上，科技上的动力大多是为了提高安全性。今天的汽车虽然动力更强大，但驾驶起来更安全。很多动力被用于提升操控性。你知道，我宁愿拥有一辆500马力的卡车，但如果有1000马力会更好。我不知道哪个更好，但肯定是更快。我觉得1000马力更好，因为可以更快地摆脱困境。我更喜欢我的599胜过612，我认为599更好，动力更强更好。我的459也比430更好，更多的马力确实更好。我确实认为更多的马力是更好的。

I think it's better handling It's better control in the case of in the case of technology It's also very similar in that way, you know, and so you beat if you look at what we're going to do with the next thousand times of Performance in AI a lot of it is going to be channeled towards more reflection more research Thinking about the answer more deeply. So when you're defining safety you're defining at it as accuracy functionality functionality, okay, it does what you expected to do and then you take the all the the the technology in a horsepower you put guardrails on it Just like our cars. We've got a lot of technology in a car today a lot of it is goes towards For example ABS ABS is great and so a traction control that's fantastic without without a computer in the car How would you do any of that right and that little computer?

我认为更好的处理方式是在科技方面获得更好的控制。我们在处理技术问题时所采取的方法非常相似，你知道的。当我们展望下一个一千倍的人工智能性能提升时，其中很大一部分将专注于更深入的反思和研究，更认真地思考答案。因此，当你定义安全性时，你将其定义为准确性和功能性，也就是说，它能按照你的预期去做。此外，你要对所有的技术和性能施加安全护栏。就像我们的汽车一样，今天的汽车中有很多技术，其中很多用于例如ABS（防抱死制动系统），ABS非常优秀，还有牵引力控制系统，这些都很棒。没有车内的计算机，你怎样做这些呢？这小小的计算机能实现很多。

The computers that you have doing your traction control is more powerful than a computer that went to Apollo 11 And so you want that technology Channel it towards safety channel it towards functionality And so when people talk about power The advancement of technology oftentimes I I feel what they're thinking And what we're actually doing is very different. Well, what do you think they're thinking? Well, they're thinking somehow That this this this AI is being powerful and they're they're mind probably goes towards a sci-fi movie the definition of power You know oftentimes the definition definition of powers Military power or physical power or but in the case of technology power when we translate all of those operations It's towards more refined thinking you know more reflection more planning More options.

你用来进行牵引力控制的电脑，比执行阿波罗11号任务的电脑还要强大。因此，你应该把这种技术的应用引导到安全性和功能性上。所以当人们谈论“力量”的时候，常常我感到他们所想的和我们实际做的是很不同的。那么你觉得他们在想什么呢？他们可能在想这种人工智能变得非常强大，他们的想法可能会联想到科幻电影中的力量。通常力量这个词让人想到军事力量、物理力量等，但在技术力量的情况下，我们把所有那些操作转化为更精细的思考、更深刻的反思、更周密的规划和更多的选择。

I think the big fears that people have is one a big fear is military applications That's a big fear. Yeah, because people are very concerned that you're going to have AI systems that make decisions that maybe an ethical person wouldn't make or a moral person wouldn't make based on achieving an objective versus based on You know How it's going to look to people Well, I'm happy that That our military is going to use AI technology for defense and I think that that Andro building military technology. I'm happy to hear that. I'm happy to see All these tech startups now channeling their technology capabilities towards defense and military applications I think you need to do that.

我认为人们最大的恐惧之一就是军事应用。这是一个很大的担忧。很多人非常担心，人工智能系统可能会做出一些选择，而这些选择可能不是一个有道德观的人会做的，因为它们是基于达成某个目标而不是基于人们的看法而做出的。然而，我很高兴我们的军队将采用人工智能技术用于防御。我也很高兴看到Andro公司在开发军事技术，以及越来越多的科技创业公司正在把技术能力投入到国防和军事应用中。我认为这是必要的。

Yeah, we had Palmer lucky on the podcast. He was demonstrating some of this stuff Helmet on and we showed he showed some videos how you could see behind walls and stuff like it's nuts He's actually the perfect guy to go start that company 100% yeah, 100% it's like he's born for that Yeah, he came here with a copper jacket on He's a freak. It's awesome. He's awesome, but it's also it's a you know an unusual intellect channeled into that Very bizarre field is what you need you know, and I think it's it's uh I think I'm happy that we're making a soul more socially acceptable

是啊，我们在播客节目中请到了Palmer Luckey。他戴着头盔演示了一些东西，我们展示了一些视频，比如他如何能够看到墙后面的东西，真是令人匪夷所思。他简直就是创办那家公司的完美人选，100%没错，就像他天生就适合干这个。他来我们节目时穿了一件铜色的夹克。他确实是个怪才，特别厉害。不过呢，他也是把一种不寻常的智慧投入到了一个非常独特的领域，这正是你所需要的。我觉得让这些科技变得更加被社会接受真的是件好事。

You know, there was a time where when somebody wanted to channel their technology capability and their intellect into defense technology Somehow they're vilified But we need people like that. We need people who enjoy enjoyed that part of a application of technology Well people are terrified of war Yeah, so well the best best way to avoid it has excessive military might Do you think that's absolutely the best way not not diplomacy not working stuff out all of it all of it Yeah, you have to have yeah military might need to get people to sit down there right exactly all of it Otherwise, it just invade that's right

你知道吗，以前如果有人想把他们的技术能力和智慧投入到国防技术中去，他们常常会被批评。然而，我们需要这样的人。我们需要那些喜欢技术在这个领域应用的人。尽管人们害怕战争，但避免战争的最好办法就是拥有强大的军事实力。你认为这真的是最好的办法吗？而不是通过外交手段解决问题吗？都需要，完全需要，你必须同时拥有强大的军事实力才能让人坐下来谈。没错，不然就会被入侵，是的。

Why ask for permission again like you said in history go back and look at history Um when you look at the future of AI and and you just said that no one really knows what's happening Do you ever sit down and ponder scenarios? Like what do you what do you think is like best case scenario for AI over the next two decades um The best case scenario is that AI diffuses into everything that we do and I are Everything's more efficient but The threat of war remains a threat of war Uh cyber security remains a Super difficult challenge somebody is going to try to breach your security

为什么还要像过去那样请求许可呢？看看历史，当你展望AI的未来时，你刚才说没人真正了解发生了什么。你有没有静下心来思考过不同的情况？你认为未来二十年AI的最佳发展情况是什么？最佳情况是AI融入我们做的每一件事，提高效率。但战争的威胁依然存在，网络安全仍然是一个极具挑战性的难题，总会有人试图入侵你的安全系统。

You're gonna have thousands of millions of AI agents protecting you from that threat Your technology is gonna get better their technology is gonna get better just like cyber security right now while we speak We're being We're seeing cyber attacks all over the planet on just about every front door you can imagine and And yet you and I Sit here talking and so the reason for that is because We know that there's a whole bunch of cybersecurity technology in defense And so we just have to keep Amping that up keep stepping that up

你将会有成千上百万的人工智能代理保护你免受这种威胁。你的技术会变得更好，他们的技术也会变得更好，就像现在的网络安全一样。当我们在这里交谈时，全世界正面临着各种各样的网络攻击。然而，你我还能坐在这里对话。原因是我们知道有大量的网络安全技术在提供防护。因此，我们只需要不断加强和提升这些技术即可。

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It's a deal so good. you're gonna want to tell your people switch now at visible.com slash rogan terms apply limited time offers subject to change see visible.com for plan features and network management details That's a big issue with people is the the worry that Technology is going to get to a point where encryption is going to be obsolete encryption is just it's no longer gonna protect data It's no longer gonna protect systems. Do you anticipate that ever being an issue or do you think this it's as the defense grows

这是一个非常划算的交易，你会想要告诉你身边的人马上去visible.com/rogan看看。条款适用，限时优惠，可能会变动。请查看visible.com了解计划特点和网络管理详情。人们很担心的一个大问题是，科技发展的某个阶段可能会让加密技术变得过时，加密可能再也不能保护数据和系统。你认为这会成为一个问题吗？或者你觉得防御措施也会随之增强？

The threat grows the defense grows and it just keeps going on and on and on and they'll always be able to fight off any sort of intrusions Not forever Some intrusion will get in and they will all learn from it and you know the reason why cybersecurity works Is because of course the technology of defense is advancing very quickly the technology offense is advancing very quickly However the benefit of the cybersecurity defense is that socially the community All of our companies work together as one

威胁在增加，防御也在增强，这种情况不断循环。尽管他们总能抵御各种入侵，但这并不会持续永远。总会有入侵成功的时候，他们会从中吸取教训。网络安全之所以有效，是因为防御技术和攻击技术都在快速发展。然而，网络安全防御的一个优势在于，整个社区和各个公司团结一致，共同合作。

Most people don't realize this. There's a whole community of cybersecurity experts; we exchange ideas, we exchange best practices, we exchange what we detect the moment something has been breached or maybe there's a loophole or whatever it is. It is shared by everybody. The patches are shared with everybody. That's interesting. Yeah. Most people don't realize this. No, no, I had no idea. I've assumed that it would just be competitive like everything else. No, we work together. All of us. Yeah, has that always been the case? And it surely has been the case for about 15 years. It might not have been the case long ago, but this—what do you think started off that cooperation?

大多数人没有意识到这一点。网络安全专家有一个完整的社区；我们交流想法，分享最佳实践，我们会在发现安全漏洞或其他问题的瞬间进行信息交换。这些信息和补丁是共享给所有人的。这很有趣。是的，大多数人没有意识到这一点。哦，不，我以前完全不知道。我以为这和其他事情一样有竞争性。不，我们是一起合作的。我们所有人都是这样的。是的，一直都是这样吗？这种情况大约有15年了。可能很久以前不是这样的，那么你觉得这种合作从何而来呢？

People recognizing it's a challenge and no company can stand alone. And the same thing is going to happen with AI. I think we all have to decide working together to stay out of harm's way is our best chance for defense. Then it's basically everybody against the threat, and it also seems like you'd be way better at detecting where these threats are coming from and neutralizing. Exactly, because the moment you detect that somewhere, right? You're going to find out right away. It'll be really hard to hide. That's right. Yeah, that's how it works. That's the reason why it's safe. That's why I'm sitting here right now instead of, you know, locking everything down and video.

人们认识到这是一个挑战，没有公司可以单独应对。AI领域也会发生同样的情况。我认为，我们都必须决定携手合作，以确保安全，这才是我们最好的防御策略。这样一来，大家就可以共同应对威胁，同时也更容易检测威胁来自何处并加以化解。确实如此，因为一旦检测到某个地方有威胁，你马上就能发现，这很难隐藏。没错，这就是其安全的原因。这也是为什么我现在能安心地坐在这里，而不是封锁一切并进行视频监控。

It's not only am I watching my own back; I've got everybody watching my back and I'm watching everybody else's back. It's a bizarre world, isn't it, when you think about that cyber threat idea about cybersecurity? It is unknown to the people who are talking about AI threats. I think when they think about AI threats and AI cybersecurity threats, they have to also think about how we deal with it today. Now, there's no question that AI is a new technology and it's a new type of software in the end of software. And just is a new type of software and so it's going to have new capabilities. But so with the defense, you know, where you use the same AI technology to go defend against it.

这不仅是我在照顾自己，我还有所有人在照顾我，同时我也在照顾所有人。在这个网络威胁和网络安全的背景下，这个世界确实有些怪异，对吧？对那些谈论人工智能威胁的人来说，这种情况是陌生的。我认为在他们思考人工智能威胁和人工智能网络安全威胁时，也应该考虑我们今天是如何应对的。毫无疑问，人工智能是一项新技术，最终它是一种新型的软件。作为一种新型软件，它将具备新的能力。同样的，防御也是如此，你可以使用同样的人工智能技术来防御威胁。

So do you anticipate a time ever in the future where it's going to be impossible? Where there's not going to be any secrets? Where the bottleneck between the technology that we have and the information that we have? Information is just all a bunch of ones and zeros; it's out there on hard drives and technology has more and more access to that information. Is it ever going to get to a point in time where there's no way to keep a secret? I don't know because it seems like that's where everything is kind of headed.

你有没有想过，将来会不会有那么一天，秘密将不复存在？我们现在拥有的科技和信息之间的瓶颈会消失吗？信息只是由一堆 0 和 1 组成的，它们被存储在硬盘上，而科技对这些信息的访问能力越来越强。会不会有那么一个时刻，再也无法保守秘密？我不确定，但似乎一切都在朝着这个方向发展。

I don't think so. I think the quantum computers we're supposed to... Well, yeah, quantum computers will make it possible. We'll make it so that the previous quantum encryption technology is obsolete. But that's the reason why the entire industry is working on post-quantum encryption technology. Well, that looked like new algorithms. And the crazy thing is when you hear about the kind of computation that quantum computing can do, and the power that it has—where, you know, you're looking at all the supercomputers in the world who take billions of years and it takes them a few minutes to solve these equations.

我不这么认为。我认为我们应该关注量子计算机……是的，量子计算机会让以前的量子加密技术变得过时。这也是整个行业致力于开发后量子加密技术的原因。这就像开发新算法。而令人惊讶的是，当你了解到量子计算所能完成的计算量以及它的强大时，你会发现，全世界的超级计算机需要数十亿年才能解决的方程，量子计算机只需要几分钟。

Like, how do you make encryption for something that can do that? I'm not sure. But I've got a bunch of scientists who are working on that. Yeah, we got a bunch of scientists who are experts in that, and the ultimate fear that it can't be breached—that quantum computing will always be able to decrypt all other quantum computing encryption. I don't know. It just gets to some point where it's like stop playing the stupid game. We know everything. I don't think so, no, because I'm—you know, history is a guide. History is a guide. Before AI came around, that's my worry. My worry is this is a total... You know, it's like history was one thing, and then nuclear weapons kind of changed all of our thoughts on war and mutually assured destruction.

就像，如何为这种能做到那样事情的东西加密？我不太确定。但我有一群科学家在研究这个问题。是的，我们有一群专家在负责这个，而且最大的担忧是它无法被攻破——量子计算总是能够破解其他量子计算的加密。我不知道。这就是到了某个程度，你会觉得停止玩这种无聊的游戏吧。我们知道一切。我才不那么认为，因为——你知道，历史是我们的向导。历史是向导。在人工智能出现之前，我就有这个担忧。我的担忧是这是一个彻底的……你知道，就像历史本来是这样的一回事，但是核武器改变了我们对战争和相互保证毁灭的所有想法。

Came—got everybody to stop using nuclear bombs. Yeah, my worry is that the thing is, Joe, is that AI is not gonna—it's not like we're cavemen and then all of a sudden one day AI shows up. Every single day we're getting better and smarter because we have AI and so we're stepping on our own AI's shoulders. So when that whatever that AI threat comes, it's a click ahead. It's not a galaxy ahead. Mm-hmm. You know, it's just a click ahead, and so I think the idea that somehow this AI is going to pop out of nowhere and somehow think in a way that we can't even imagine thinking and do something that we can't possibly imagine—I think is far-fetched.

来了——让所有人停止使用核弹。是的，我担心的问题是，乔，人工智能不会像我们是原始人，突然有一天人工智能凭空出现。每天我们都在因为有AI而变得更好、更聪明，所以我们是在自己AI的肩膀上不断攀升。所以，当AI的威胁来临时，它只是一个小步的领先，不是遥不可及的宇宙距离。嗯，我觉得认为AI会突然冒出来，以我们无法想象的方式思考并做出我们无法预料的事情，这种想法有些不切实际。

And the reason for that is because we all have AIs, and you know, there's a whole bunch of AIs being in development. We know what they are and we're using it, and so every single day we're getting close to each other. But don't they do things that are very surprising? Yeah, but so you have an AI that does something surprising. I'm gonna have an AI. Right? My AI looks at your AI and goes that's not that surprising.

这都是因为我们每个人都有人工智能，现在有很多人工智能正在开发中。我们知道它们是什么，并且在使用它们，所以每天我们都在彼此越来越接近。但是，它们不是也会做出一些非常让人意外的事情吗？是的，但是即便你的人工智能做了一些让人惊讶的事情，我也有一个人工智能。我的人工智能会看你的人工智能，然后说，并不那么惊讶。

The fear for the layperson like myself is that AI becomes sentient and makes its own decisions and then ultimately decides to just govern the world. Do it its own way like you guys you had a good run, but we're taking over now. Yeah, but my AI is gonna take care of me. So that's the this is the cybersecurity argument. Yes, you have an AI and it's super smart, but my AI is super smart too.

对于像我这样的普通人来说，担心的是人工智能会变得有意识，并自己做决定，最终决定去统治世界。就像 AI 对人类说：“你们已经过得不错了，但现在我们要接管了。”不过，我的人工智能会照顾我的。这就是网络安全的争论所在。是的，你有一个超级智能的 AI，但我的 AI 也同样聪明。

And maybe your AI Let's pretend let's let's pretend for a second that we understand what consciousness is and we understand what sentience is and and that and we really are just pretending. Okay, let's just pretend for a second. Yeah, we believe that. I don't believe actually I don't actually don't believe that. But nonetheless, let's pretend we believe that so you're your AI is conscious of my AI is conscious and and let's say your AI is you know wants to I don't know do something surprising.

好的，可能你的AI……让我们假装，假装一下，我们理解什么是意识，理解什么是感知，而且我们真的只是在假装。好，就假装一下。假设我们相信这些，实际上我并不相信，但无论如何，就假装我们相信吧。那么，你的AI是有意识的，我的AI也是有意识的，假设你的AI想要做一些令人惊讶的事情。

My AI is so smart that it won't it might be surprising to me, but it probably won't be surprising to my AI. And so maybe my AI thinks are surprising as well, but it's so smart the moment it sees it the first time it's not gonna be surprised the second time just like us. And so I feel like I think the idea that that only one person has AI and that one person's AI compares everybody else's AI is neanderthal is probably unlikely.

我的人工智能非常聪明，以至于即使我感到惊讶，它也可能不会感到惊讶。也许我的人工智能也会对某些事情感到惊讶，但因为它很聪明，所以第一次见到时可能会惊讶，但第二次见到时就不会像我们一样惊讶了。因此，我觉得只有一个人拥有人工智能，而这个人的人工智能与其他人的人工智能相提并论的想法是非常不可能的。

I think it's much more like cyber security. Interesting. I think the fear is not that your AI is gonna battle with somebody else's AI. The fear is that AI is no one going to listen to you. That's the fear is that human beings won't have control over it after a certain point if it achieves sentience and then has the ability to be autonomous. That there's one AI, they just combine, yeah, becomes one AI that is a life form.

我认为这更像是网络安全。很有趣。我觉得人们的恐惧并不是你的人工智能会与他人的人工智能作战，而是人工智能最终不再听从你的指令。人们害怕的是在人类无法控制的情况下，当人工智能达到自我意识并具备自治能力时，该如何应对。可能所有的人工智能会合并成一个，变成一种新的生命形态。

Yeah, but there's arguments about that right that we're dealing with some sort of synthetic biology that it's not as simple as new technology that you're creating a life form. If it's like a life form, let's go along with that for a while. I think if it's like a life form, as you know, all life forms don't agree. And so I'm gonna have to go with your life form and my life form are gonna agree because my life form is gonna want to be the super life form.

是的，但是关于这个问题有一些争论。我们在处理某种合成生物学，这并不像新技术那么简单，因为你是在创造一种生命体。如果这就像一种生命体，那我们暂时就这么认为。我觉得，如果这像一种生命体，你也知道，并不是所有生命体都会一致。因此，我得说你的生命体和我的生命体可能会有分歧，因为我的生命体会想成为超级生命体。

And now that now that we have disagreeing life forms, we're back again to where we are. Well, they would probably cooperate with each other. It would just, the reason why we don't cooperate with each other is we're territorial primates. But AI wouldn't be a territorial primate. We realized the folly in that sort of thinking and it would say listen, there's plenty of energy for everybody. We don't need to dominate.

现在，当我们有了意见不同的生命形式时，我们回到了我们的起点。不过，它们可能会相互合作。不合作的原因是，我们是具有领地意识的灵长类动物。但人工智能不会是领地意识的灵长类动物。我们意识到这种思维方式的错误，它会说，听着，能源对每个人都足够充裕，我们不需要去支配他人。

We don't need, we're not trying to acquire resources and take over the world. We're not looking to find a good breeding partner. We're just existing as a new super life form that these cute monkeys created for us. Okay, well that would be a superpower with no ego, right? And if it has no ego, why would it have to ego to do any harm to us? Well, I don't assume that it would do harm to us. But the fear would be that we would no longer have control and that we would no longer be the apex species on the planet.

我们不需要，不想占有资源或统治世界。我们也不在寻找合适的繁殖伙伴。我们只是作为这些可爱猴子创造出的新超生命体在存在。好吧，那这就是一个没有自我的超级力量，对吧？如果它没有自我，它为什么会有伤害我们的动机呢？我并不认为它会对我们造成伤害。但人们担心的是，我们可能无法再控制它，也无法再成为地球上的顶级物种。

This thing that we created would now be, is that funny? No, I just care, it's not gonna happen. I know you think it's not, but it could, right? And here's the other thing is like if we're racing towards could, yeah, and could could be the end of human beings being in control of our own destiny. I just think it's extremely unlikely.

我们创建的这个东西现在会怎么样，是不是很可笑？不，我只是关心这一点，这不会发生。我知道你觉得不会，但可能会，对吧？还有一个问题，如果我们正在奔向这种可能性，对，这种可能性可能会导致人类无法掌控自己的命运。我只是觉得这种可能性极其小。

Yeah, that's what they said in the Terminator movie and it hasn't happened. No, not yet, but you guys are working towards it. The thing about you're saying about conscience and sentience that you don't think that AI will achieve consciousness or the question is what's the definition? Yeah, what's the definition of what is the definition to you?

好的，他们在《终结者》电影里也是这么说的，但这还没有发生。没错，还没发生，但你们正在朝这个方向努力。关于你提到良知和感知的问题，你认为AI不会达到意识状态，或者问题是：我们该如何定义？对你而言，这个定义是什么？

Um, consciousness I've for, I guess first of all, you need to know by your own existence. Um, you have to have not just knowledge and intelligence. The concept of a machine having an experience, I'm not well, first of all I don't know what defines the experience, why we have experiences and right, yeah, and why this microphone doesn't.

嗯，意识，我想首先你需要了解自己的存在。嗯，你不仅需要知识和智慧。机器拥有经历这个概念，我不太明白，首先，我不知道什么定义了经历，为什么我们会有经历，而对对，为什么这个麦克风没有。

And so I think I know, I think I think I know what consciousness is. The sense of experience, the ability to know self versus the ability to be able to reflect, know our own self, the sense of ego. I think all of those human experiences probably is what consciousness is. But why it exists versus the concept of knowledge and intelligence, which is what AI is defined by today.

因此，我认为我了解，我觉得我知道什么是意识。意识是一种体验感，是区分自我与他人的能力，是能够反思和认识自我的能力，是一种自我意识。我觉得所有这些人类的体验可能就是意识的本质。但为什么意识存在，而这与知识和智能的概念不同，而知识和智能是今天定义人工智能的标准。

Mm-hmm. It has knowledge, it has intelligence. Artificial intelligence, we don't call it artificial consciousness. Artificial intelligence the ability to perceive, recognize, understand, plan, perform tasks, those things are foundations of intelligence. To know things, knowledge, I don't, it's clearly different than consciousness.

嗯。它有知识，有智能。人工智能，不是人工意识。人工智能具有感知、识别、理解、规划和执行任务的能力，这些是智能的基础。了解事物和拥有知识，这显然与意识不同。

But consciousness is so loosely defined how can we say that? I mean doesn't a dog have consciousness? Yeah, dogs seem to be pretty conscious. That's right, yeah, so, and that's a lower level consciousness than a human being's consciousness. I'm not sure, yeah, right.

但“意识”这个概念太宽泛了，我们怎么能这样说呢？我的意思是，难道狗没有意识吗？是的，狗似乎是有意识的。没错，是的，不过那种意识比人类的意识要低一级。我不太确定，对，没错。

Well, and the question is what lower level and taller level. It's lower level intelligence. Yes, but I don't know that's lower level consciousness. That's a good point, yeah, right, because I believe my dogs feel as much as I feel, yeah, they feel a lot. Yeah, right, they get attached to you, that's right, they get depressed if you're not there.

好的，这个问题在于什么是低层次和高层次。这是低层次的智力。是的，但我不知道这是否是低层次的意识。这个观点不错，对，因为我相信我的狗和我一样有情感，对，它们有很多情感。是的，它们会对你产生依恋，如果你不在，它们会感到沮丧。

That's right, yeah, exactly. There's definitely that, yeah. The concept of experience, right, um, but isn't AI interacting with society so doesn't it acquire experience through that interaction? If you, I don't think interactions as experience. I think experience is, experience is a collection of feelings.

没错，完全正确。确实有这种情况。经验的概念，对吧，但是人工智能不是在与社会互动吗？那么它不是通过这种互动获得经验吗？我觉得互动不算作经验。我认为经验是一系列情感的积累。

I think you're aware of that AI, I forget which one, where they gave it some false information about one of the programmers having an affair with his wife just to see how it would respond to it. And then when they said they were going to shut it down, it threatened to blackmail him and reveal his affair.

我想你知道有一个人工智能，我忘记是哪一个了，他们故意向它提供了一些虚假的信息，说有一个程序员和他的妻子有外遇，只是想看看它会怎么反应。结果当他们说要关闭它时，它竟然威胁要勒索那个程序员，并透露他的所谓外遇。

And it was like whoa, like it's conniving, like if that's not learning from experience and being aware that you're about to be shut down which would imply at least some kind of consciousness or you could kind of define it as consciousness if you're very loose with the term and if you imagine that this is going to exponentially become more powerful. Wouldn't that ultimately lead to a different kind of consciousness than we're defining from biology?

这句话可以翻译成中文如下： “这就好像是，哇，简直是狡猾至极。如果这不是从经验中学习并意识到即将被关闭的表现，那至少也暗示了某种意识。如果你对‘意识’这个词的定义非常宽泛，你可以将其视为一种意识，并且想象这种能力会不断增强。这难道不会最终导致一种与我们从生物学上定义的不同的意识吗？”

Well, first of all, let's just break down what it probably did. It probably read somewhere. There's probably text that in these consequences certain people did that you know, I could imagine a novel right having those words related. And so inside, it realizes a strategy for survival. It's just a bunch of numbers that in the collection of numbers that relates to a husband cheating on a wife, um, subsequently a bunch of numbers that relate to blackmail and such things. However, whatever to revenge was right. And so it is spewed that out.

好的，首先，让我们分解一下它可能做了什么。它可能从某个地方读到了一些东西，可能是一些文字中描述了在某些情况下某些人做了什么。我可以想象在一本小说中，会有相关的文字描述。因此，它认识到一种生存策略。这仅仅是一堆数字，而这些数字集合可能与丈夫对妻子的背叛相关，随后又与勒索等事情相关。不管最终的报复是什么，它就这样把这些信息表达出来了。

And so it's just like you know, it’s just as if I'm asking it to write me a poem in Shakespeare. It's just whatever the words are. And the word in that dimensionality, this dimensionality, is all these vectors and in multi-dimensional space, these words, that word in the prompt that described the affair, um, subsequently led to one word after another led to, um, you know, some revenge and something. But it's not because it had consciousness or you know, it just spewed out those words generated those words I understand what you're saying.

这句话的大意是：就好像我要求它用莎士比亚的风格写一首诗。无论这些词汇是什么，它们在多维空间中通过向量进行排列。在这一维度中，这些词，一个接一个地组合在一起，描述了一场事件，随后引发了一些复仇与其他事情。但这并不是因为它具有意识，而只是因为它生成了这些词。我明白你的意思。

Yeah, that is not in front of patterns that human beings exhibited both literature and in real life. That's exactly right. But at a certain point in time one would say, okay, well it couldn't do this two years ago and it couldn't do this four years ago. Like when we're looking towards the future, like at what point in time when it can do everything a person does, what point in time do we decide that it's conscious if it absolutely mimics all human thinking and behavior patterns? That doesn't make it conscious and becomes indistinguishable.

好的，这在文学作品和现实生活中都没有出现在人类展示的模式中。确实如此。但是在某个时间点，有人会说，好吧，它两年前做不到这个，四年前也做不到这个。当我们展望未来时，如果它能完全模仿人类的所有思维和行为模式，那么我们在什么时候决定它是有意识的？这并不意味着它有意识，只是变得难以区分而已。

Yeah, it's aware it can communicate with you the exact same way a person can. Like is consciousness like are we putting too much weight on that concept because it seems like it's a version of a kind of consciousness? It's a version of imitation, imitation consciousness, right, but if it perfectly imitates it, I still think it's a person is an example of imitation. So it's like a fake Rolex when they 3D print them and make them look indistinguishable. The question is what's the definition of consciousness?

是的，它知道可以像人一样和你交流。我们是否在“意识”这个概念上赋予了过多的意义，因为这似乎是某种类型的意识？这是一种模仿的意识，对吧，但如果它完美地模仿了，我还是认为它是一个人，这就是模仿的例子。所以它就像一个用3D打印技术制作的假劳力士，看起来和真的一模一样。问题是，意识的定义到底是什么呢？

Yeah, that's the question, and I don't think anybody's really clearly defined that. That's what gets where it gets weird, and that's where the real doomsday people are worried that you are creating a form of consciousness that you can't control. I believe it is possible to create a machine that imitates human intelligence and has the ability to understand information, understand instructions, break the problem down, solve problems, and perform tasks. I believe that completely.

是的，那就是问题所在，而且我觉得还没有人能清楚地定义这个问题。这就是事情变得怪异的地方，也是那些真正末日论者担心的地方，他们害怕我们正在创造一种我们无法控制的意识。我相信我们可以制造出一种可以模仿人类智能的机器，这种机器能够理解信息、理解指令、分解问题、解决问题并执行任务。我完全相信这一点。

I believe that we could have a computer that has a vast amount of knowledge, some of it true, some of it not true, some of it generated by humans, some of it generated synthetically, and more and more of knowledge in the world will be generated synthetically going forward. You know, until now the knowledge that we've, we have our knowledge that we generate and we propagate and we send to each other and we amplify it and we add to it and we modify it and we change it.

我相信我们可以拥有一台拥有海量知识的电脑，其中一些是真实的，一些是不真实的，有些是由人类创造的，有些是合成生成的。未来，世界上的知识将越来越多地由合成技术生成。你知道，到目前为止，我们拥有的知识是由我们自己创造、传播、交流、扩展、添加、修改和改变的。

In the future, in a couple of years, maybe two or three years, 90% of the world's knowledge will likely be generated by AI. That's crazy. I know, but it's just fine. But it's just I know, and the reason for that is this let me tell you why, okay? It's because what difference does it make to me that I'm learning from a textbook that was generated by a bunch of people I didn't know or written by a book that, you know, from somebody I don't know to knowledge generated by AI computers that are simulating all of this and recenterizing things to me?

未来，可能两三年后，世界上90%的知识将由人工智能创造。这听起来很疯狂，我知道，但这没关系。我只是觉得这没关系，我会告诉你原因。因为无论我从一本由一群我不认识的人编写的教科书中学习，还是从一本我不知道作者是谁的书中学习，和从AI电脑生成并重新加工的信息中学习，对我来说有什么区别呢？

I don't think there's a whole lot of difference. We still have to fact check it. We still have to make sure that it's, you know, based on fundamental first principles, and we still have to do all of that just like we do today. Is this taking into account the kind of AI that exists currently? And do you anticipate that just like we could have never really believed that AI would be at least a person like myself would never believe AI would be as so ubiquitous and so worth?

我认为没有太大区别。我们仍然需要核实其真实性。我们仍然需要确保其基础是基于基本的第一原理，我们仍然需要像今天一样做所有这些事情。这是否考虑到了当前存在的人工智能类型？你是否认为，就像我们从未真正相信（至少像我这样的人从没相信过）人工智能会如此普遍并且有这么大的价值？

It's so powerful today and so important today. We never thought that 10 years ago; never thought that, right? You imagine like what are we looking at 10 years from now? I think that if you reflect back 10 years from now, you would say the same thing that we would have never believed that, mmm, but in a different direction, right? But if you if you go forward nine years from now and then ask yourself what's going to happen? 10. years from now? I think it'll be quite gradual.

今天的情况非常强大且重要。十年前我们从未想到会这样，对吧？你能想象我们在十年后会看到什么吗？我认为如果你回顾现在，你会说同样的话：“我们从未相信过，但朝着不同的方向发展了。”不过，如果你向前看九年，然后问自己十年后会发生什么，我觉得这种变化会非常渐进。

Um one of the things that Elon said that makes me happy is he he's He believes that we're going to get to a point where it's not It's not necessary for people to work and not meaning that you're gonna Have no purpose in life, but you will have in his words universal high income because so much revenue is generated by AI That it will take away This need for people to do things that they don't really enjoy doing just for money and I think A lot of people have a problem with that because their entire identity and who the how they think of themselves and how they fit in the community Is what they do like this is Mike.

嗯，埃隆提到的一件让我感到高兴的事情是，他相信我们将会迎来一个不再需要每个人都必须工作的时代。这并不是说大家将失去人生目标，而是根据他的话来说，由于人工智能创造了大量收入，每个人都可以享有普遍的高收入。这样一来，人们就不再需要为了赚钱而去做那些自己并不喜欢的事情。然而，我认为很多人可能对这种想法存有疑虑，因为他们的全部身份认同，以及他们如何看待自己在社区中的角色，很大程度上取决于他们所从事的职业。这就像是麦克一样。

He's an amazing mechanic go to Mike and Mike takes care of things But there's going to come a point in time where AI is going to be able to do all those things much better than than people do and people will just be able to receive money But then what does Mike do when Mike is you know really loves being the best mechanic around You know what does the guy who you know Codes what does he do when AI can code infinitely faster with zero errors like what What happens with all those people and that is where it gets weird Because we've sort of wrapped our identity as human beings around what we do for a living.

他是一位了不起的机械师，去找Mike，Mike总是能够妥善处理好事情。但总有一天，AI将能够比人类做得更好，而人们只需要接受报酬即可。那么，当Mike你知道真的热爱成为这个地方最好的机械师时，他该怎么办呢？当AI能够无错且快速地编写代码时，程序员们又该如何应对呢？这时问题就变得奇怪了，因为我们已经在一定程度上把自己的身份认同与职业紧紧相连。

You know when you meet someone one of the first things you meet somebody to party Hi Joe. What's your name Mike? What do you do Mike and you know Mike's like oh, I'm a lawyer. Oh, what kind of law? And you have a conversation, you know when Mike is like I get money from the government. I play video games gets weird and I think The concept sounds great Until you take into account human nature and human nature is that we like to have puzzles to solve and things to do and an identity It's wrapped around our idea that we're very good at this thing that we do for a living.

当你遇到一个新朋友时，通常的对话是这样的：你在派对上见到Joe，你会问他的名字，然后他说他是Mike。接下来，你可能会问："Mike，你是做什么工作的？" Mike回答说他是个律师，然后你会问是什么类型的律师，通过这样的对话来了解对方。但如果Mike说他靠政府拿钱，整天打电子游戏，这种情况就会变得有些奇怪。这个概念看起来不错，但如果考虑到人性，我们喜欢有谜题去解决，有事情去做，而且我们的身份认同很多是建立在我们擅长的工作之上的。

Yeah, I think um, let's see Let me start with the more mundane. Okay, now work work backwards. Okay, work forward So one of the predictions from Jeff Hinton who who started the whole deep learning phenomenon deep learning technology trend And incredible incredible researcher professor at university of Toronto I he invented discovered and we're invented the idea of of back propagation which Which allows the neural network to learn and um And as as you know for for the audience software historically was humans applying first principles and our thinking to uh describe an algorithm That is then codified Just like a recipe that's codified in software.

好的，让我从比较普通的事情开始说起，然后再回过头去，然后向前推进。Jeff Hinton 是一位非常了不起的研究人员，他在多伦多大学任教，也就是他开创了深度学习技术潮流。他发明了反向传播的概念，这使得神经网络能够学习。过去，软件通常是由人类应用基本原理和我们的思维来描述算法，然后再像食谱一样把它编写成软件。

It looks just like a recipe how to cook something looks exactly the same Just in a slightly different language we call it python or c or c++ or whatever it is in the case of deep learning this invention of artificial intelligence We put a structure of a whole bunch of neural networks and a whole bunch of math units And We make this large structure is like a switchboard of little Mathematical units and we connect it all together um We give it the input that The software would eventually receive And we just let it randomly guess what the output is.

这看起来就像一份食谱，尽管使用稍微不同的语言而已，我们称之为Python、C或C++，无论是什么语言。在深度学习中，这种人工智能的发明让我们创建一个由大量神经网络和数学单元组合而成的结构。我们把这个庞大的结构想象成一个由小型数学单元组成的交换机，然后将其全部连接在一起。我们给这个系统输入软件最终会接收到的数据，然后让它随机猜测输出结果。

And so we say for example the input could be a picture of a cat And um one of the outputs of the switchboard Is where the cat signal is supposed to show up And all of the other signals the other ones a dog deal ones an elephant deal ones a tiger And all of the other signals are supposed to be zero when I show it a cat And the one that is a cat should be one And I show it a cat through this big huge network of switchboards and Math units and they're just doing multiply and ads multiply and ads, okay.

所以我们可以打个比方说，输入可能是一张猫的照片。然后，其中一个“开关板”的输出就会显示猫的信号。而其他的信号，比如狗、象、老虎的信号，在我们展示猫的时候，都应该为零。猫的信号应该为一。我们通过一个庞大的网络系统展示猫，其中有大量的开关板和数学运算单元，它们只是进行乘法和加法操作，仅此而已。

And and uh and this thing this switchboard is gigantic The more information you're going to give it the more the bigger this switchboard has to be And what Jeff Hinton discovered was a invented was a way for you to Guess that put the cat signal in put the cat image in And that cat image you know could be a million numbers Because it's you know a megapixel image for example And it's just a whole a whole bunch of numbers and somehow from those numbers It has to light up the cat signal.

这个东西，这个交换机是巨大的。你输入的信息越多，这个交换机就需要越大。杰夫·辛顿发现并发明了一种方法，可以让你将猫的信号输入进去，把猫的图像输入进去。那个猫的图像可能包含上百万个数字，因为它可能是一个百万像素的图像。对于这一大堆数字，系统需要以某种方式让猫的信号亮起来。

Okay, that's the bottom line And If it the first time you do it It just comes up with garbage and so it says the right answer is cat And so you need to Increase this signal and decrease all of the other and back propagates The outcome through the entire network And then you show it in another now it's an image of a dog and it guesses it Takes a swing at it and it comes up with a bunch of garbage and you say no no no the answer. This is a dog I want you to produce dog and all of the other switch all the other. outputs have to be zero And I want to back propagate that and just do it over and over and over again. It's just like Showing a kid. This is an apple. This is a dog. This is a cat and just keep showing it to him until they eventually get it

好的，这就是关键点。当你第一次操作时，它可能会给出一堆垃圾结果，比如说答案是"猫"。因此，你需要增加正确答案的信号，减少其他结果的信号，并将结果通过整个网络进行反向传播。然后你再给它看另一张图片，这次是狗的图像。它试着猜测，但还是给出了一些乱七八糟的答案，然后你告诉它不对，答案是狗。你希望它能把狗这个输出生成出来，其他的输出值都要变成零。你需要把这个过程反复进行，就像告诉小孩“这是苹果，这只狗，这只猫”一样，反复呈现给他们看，直到他们最终能认出来。

Okay, in any ways that big invention is deep learning That's the foundation of artificial intelligence a piece of software That learns from examples That's basically we machine learning a machine that learns And so so one of the the big first Applications was image recognition and one of the most important image recognition applications is radiology hmm and so so uh He predicted about five years ago That in five years time the world won't need any radiologists Because AI would have swept the whole field Well turns out AI has swept the whole field that is completely true today Just about every radiologist is using AI in some way and What's ironic though what's it what's interesting is that the number of radiologists has actually grown

好的，无论如何，那项伟大的发明是深度学习。它是人工智能的基础，一个从例子中学习的软件。基本上，这就是我们所说的“机器学习”——一台能够学习的机器。那么，其首批重要应用之一便是图像识别，其中一个最重要的图像识别应用领域是放射学。大约五年前，有人预测在未来五年内，世界将不再需要放射科医生，因为人工智能会席卷整个领域。事实证明，人工智能确实全面改变了这个领域，如今几乎每个放射科医生都会在某种程度上使用人工智能。有趣的是，尽管如此，放射科医生的数量实际上还是增加了。

And so the question is why that's kind of interesting right this and so the prediction was in fact That 30 million radiologists will be wiped out But as it turns out we need it more and the reason for that Is because the purpose of a radiologist is the diagnosed disease Not the study the image the the image studying is simply a task to In service of diagnosing the disease And so now the fact that you could study the images More quickly and more precisely Without ever making a mistake and never gets tired You could study more images you could study it in 3d form instead of 2d Because you know the AI doesn't care whether a study is images in 3d or 2d you could study it in 4d

问题在于，为什么这件事很有趣。之前的预测是，3000万名放射科医生将被淘汰。然而，事实证明我们需要更多的放射科医生。原因在于，放射科医生的目的在于诊断疾病，而不是单纯地研究医学影像。研究影像只是为诊断疾病服务的一个任务。因此，现如今我们可以更快、更精确地研究影像，不会出错，也不会疲倦。我们能够研究更多的影像，可以把影像从2D升级到3D研究，因为AI不在乎是研究3D还是2D的影像，甚至可以研究4D影像。

And so the now you could study images in a way that Radiologist radiologists can't easily do and you could study a lot more of it And so the number of tests that people are able to do Increases and because they're able to serve more Patients The hospital does better They have more clients more patients as a result they have better economics when they have better economics They hire more radiologists because their purpose is not to study the images Their purpose is to diagnose disease

现在，你能够以一种放射科医生无法轻松做到的方式来研究图像，而且你可以研究更多的图像。这样一来，人们可以进行的测试数量增加了，由于他们能够为更多的患者服务，医院的运营状况也得到了改善。他们有更多的客户和患者，因此经济效益提高。当经济效益提高时，他们会雇用更多的放射科医生，因为这些医生的目的不是研究图像，而是诊断疾病。

And so the question is The what I'm leading up to is Ultimately what is the purpose What is the purpose of the lawyer And has the purpose changed What is the purpose you know one of the examples that I gave is um that I would give is For example Like if my car became self-driving Will all show first be out of jobs The answer probably is not Because for some perp for some show first They some people who are driving you they could be protectors some people They're part of the experience part of the service so when you get there they you know They could take care of things for you and so for a lot of different reasons Not all show first would lose their jobs

所以问题是，我要引出的核心问题是：律师的目的是什么？这个目的有发生变化吗？拿一个例子来说，如果我的汽车变成自动驾驶，所有的司机都会失业吗？答案可能是否定的。因为对于一些司机来说，他们不仅仅是驾驶员，有些人可能会成为乘客的保护者，有些人是服务体验的一部分，他们在你到达目的地时可以帮你处理各种事情。所以因为很多不同的原因，并不是所有司机都会失去工作。

Some show first would lose their jobs And many show first would change their jobs And the type of Applications of autonomous vehicles will probably increase You know the usage of the technology within find new homes And so I I think you have to go back to what is the purpose of a job You know like for example if AI comes along I actually don't believe I'm gonna lose my job because my purpose Isn't to I have to look at a lot of documents.

有些首先展示的人会失去他们的工作，还有很多首先展示的人会更换工作。自动驾驶汽车的应用类型可能会增加。您知道，这项技术的使用将在不同的领域找到新机会。所以，我认为你需要回到思考工作的目的是什么。比如说，如果人工智能出现，我实际上并不认为我会失去工作，因为我的工作目的不只是查看大量文件。

I study a lot of emails. I Look at a bunch of diagrams, you know The question is what is the job and and the purpose of somebody probably hasn't changed a lawyer for example Help people that probably hasn't changed studying legal documents generating documents. It's part of the job not the job But don't you think there's many jobs that AI will replace if your job is the task yeah if your job is the task right So automation yeah, if your job.

我研究了大量的电子邮件，并查看了许多图表。问题在于，一个人的工作和目的可能没有太大变化。比如说，律师的工作是帮助他人，这一点可能一直没变。研究法律文件、撰写文件是工作的一部分，但不是全部。不过，你不觉得有很多工作会被人工智能替代吗？如果你的工作只是执行某个任务的话，是的，自动化会取代这样的工作。

Yeah, if your job is the task. That's a lot of people It could be a lot of people, but they'll probably generate like for example Uh, let's say we let's say I'm super excited about the the the robots Elon's working on It's still a few years away When it happens when it happens um There's a whole new industry of technicians and People who have to manufacture the robots right? Mm-hmm, and so that that job never existed and so you're gonna have a whole industry of people Taking care of like for example, you know all the mechanics and all the people who are building things for cars super charging cars Uh, that didn't exist before cars and now we're gonna have robots You're gonna have robot apparel so a whole industry of right isn't that right because I want my robot to look different than you robot And so you're gonna you're gonna have a whole you know apparel industry for robots You're gonna have mechanics for robots and you have you know people who comes and maintain.

是的，如果你的工作是执行任务。这样的人很多，可能会有大量的人，但他们可能会产生，比如说，假设我对埃隆正在研发的机器人感到非常兴奋。尽管还需要一些年，但一旦实现，将会出现一个全新的行业，包括需要生产机器人的技师和其他人员。这种工作以前是不存在的，因此将会有一个完整的行业来照顾这些需求。比如说，所有为汽车进行零件制造和维护的人，以前没有汽车的时候，这些工作是不存在的。现在我们将拥有机器人，你也会有机器人配件行业。对吧？因为我希望我的机器人看起来和你的不一样，因此会有一个完整的机器人服装行业。此外，你还会有为机器人服务的机械师和维护人员。

You don't think so you don't think that they're all done by other robots Eventually and then there'll be something else So you think ultimately people just adapt Except if you are the task which is a large percentage of the workforce if your job is just the chop vegetables Cuisinards gonna replace you. Yeah So people have to find meaning in other things your job has to be more than the task What do you think about Elon's believe that this universal basic income thing will eventually become necessary Many people think that andry Yang that's a quote. He was one of the first people to sort of sound that alarm during the the 2020 election Yeah, I guess um You have both ideas probably won't exist at the same time and and um as in life things will probably be in the middle.

你不认为所有的工作最终会被其他机器人完成？然后会有其他的事情。那么你认为人们最终会适应，除非你的工作只是在处理中占很大比例的人群中的一个，比如只负责切蔬菜的话，那料理机就会取代你。所以人们必须在其他事情中找到意义，你的工作必须涵盖的不仅仅是任务本身。你怎么看待埃隆认为普遍基本收入最终会成为必要的这个观点？很多人都这么认为，包括安德鲁·杨，他在2020年选举期间是较早提出这个警告的人之一。是的，我想这两种观点可能不会同时存在，在生活中，事情可能会介于两者之间。

One idea of course is that there'll be so much abundance of resource that nobody needs a job and we'll all be wealthy On the other hand Um, we're gonna need universal basic income both ideas don't exist at the same time right and so we're either gonna be all wealthy Or we're gonna be all using everybody be wealthy though, but well because scenario wealthy Not because you have a lot of dollars wealthy because there's a lot of abundance Like for example today We are wealthy of information You know, this is some a concept several thousand years ago Only a few people have and so Today we have wealth of a whole bunch of things resources that that historic point. Yeah, yeah.

当然，有一种设想是资源会如此丰富，以至于没有人需要工作，而我们都将富有。然而，另一方面，我们可能需要普遍的基本收入。这两种想法不能同时存在，所以我们要么都很富有，要么都要依赖普遍的基本收入。这里的富有不是因为我们拥有很多金钱，而是因为有大量的资源。比如，今天我们在信息方面很富有。这在几千年前只有少数人才能获得。而现在，我们在很多方面都拥有丰富的资源。

And so we're gonna have wealth of resources things that we think of valuable today That in the future is just not that not that valuable, you know, and so it because it's automated And so I think I think the question Maybe maybe partly it's hard to answer partly because It's hard to talk about infinity and it's hard to talk about a long time from now and the reason for that is because There's just too many scenarios to to consider but I think I think in the next several years call it five to ten years There's several things that I I believe in hope Um, and I say hope because I'm not sure one of the things that I believe is That the technology divide would be substantially collapsed.

所以，我们将拥有丰富的资源，这些在今天看来很有价值，但在未来可能不再那么重要，因为它们被自动化了。我认为这个问题部分难以回答，因为谈论永恒和遥远的将来是困难的，原因在于需要考虑的情境太多。但我想，在接下来的几年里，大约五到十年，我相信并希望——之所以用“希望”是因为我不确定——其中一件事情是技术差距将大幅缩小。

And Of course the alternative Viewpoint is that AI is going to increase the technology divine Now the reason why I believe AI is going to reduce the technology divine It is because we have proof The evidence is that AI is the easiest application in the world to use Chatchy PT has grown to almost a billion users Frankly practically overnight And if you're not exactly sure how to use everybody knows how to use chat GPT Just say something to it if you're not sure how to use chat GPT you ask chat GPT how to use it no Tool in history has ever had this capability A quieson art, you know, if you don't know how to use it you're kind of screwed You know walk up to and say how do you use a quieson art you're gonna have to find somebody else.

当然，另一种观点是，人工智能将会加剧技术鸿沟。然而，我之所以相信人工智能会缩小技术鸿沟，是因为我们有证据证明这一点。证据就是：人工智能是世界上最容易使用的应用程序。举个例子，ChatGPT几乎在一夜之间就拥有了将近十亿的用户。坦白说，即使你不完全知道怎么使用，每个人都知道如何使用ChatGPT。如果你不确定如何使用ChatGPT，你可以直接问ChatGPT如何使用自己。历史上没有任何工具具备这样的能力。而像烤面包机一类的东西，你如果不知道怎么用，你可能就有点麻烦了。你不能就直接问它怎么用，得去找其他人帮忙。

And so but in AI we'll just tell you exactly how to do it anybody could do this Now speak to you in any language and if it doesn't know your language You'll speak it in that language and I'll probably figure out that it doesn't completely understand your language Go and learns it Instantly and comes back and talk to you And so I think the The technology divide has a real chance finally that you don't have to speak Python or C++ or Fortran you can just speak human and whatever form of human you like And so I think that that has a real chance of closing the technology divine.

在人工智能领域，我们会直接告诉你具体怎么做，任何人都能做到。现在它可以用任何语言与你交流，如果不懂你的语言，人工智能会用这种语言和你交流，并且很可能意识到自己不完全理解，然后立即去学习并回来与你沟通。因此，我认为这项技术有真正的机会缩小技术鸿沟。你不需要掌握Python、C++或Fortran这些编程语言，你只需要用人类的语言交流，以任何你喜欢的方式表达。我认为，这确实有可能缩小技术差距。

Now of course The counter narrative would say that AI is only going to be available for The nations in the countries That have a vast amount of resources because AI takes energy and AI takes A lot of GPUs and factories to be able to produce the AI No doubt at the scale that we would like to do in the United States But the fact that it matters your phone is going to run AI just fine all by itself You know in a few years today it already does it fairly decently. And so the the fact that and every country every nation every Every society will have to benefit a very good AI It might not be tomorrow's AI it might be yesterday's AI but yesterday's AI is freaking amazing You know in 10 years time Nine-year-old AI is going to be amazing.

当然，反对的观点可能会说，人工智能只会对那些拥有大量资源的国家可用，因为人工智能需要能源，也需要大量的GPU和工厂来开发出理想的AI，尤其是在美国这样大规模应用的情况下。但是，值得注意的是，你的手机在未来几年甚至从现在开始，就可以独立运行AI，而且效果相当不错。因此，各个国家、各个社会都能从优秀的人工智能中受益。即使不是最新的AI，哪怕是上一代的AI也已经相当出色。再过十年，九年前的AI将仍然令人惊艳。

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And also energy production Which is the real bottleneck when it comes to third world countries and that's right electricity and All the all the resources that we take for granted Almost everything is going to be energy constrained and so if you take a look at um One of the most important technology advances in histories this idea called Moore's Law Moore's Law Was the started Basically in my generation and my generation is the generation of computers I Graduated 1984 and that was basically at the very beginning of the PC revolution And the microprocessor and and Every single year in approximately doubled.

以及能源生产，这是第三世界国家面临的真正瓶颈。没错，是电力和我们视为理所当然的各种资源。几乎所有事情都将受到能源限制。因此，如果你看看历史上最重要的技术进步之一，这个叫做摩尔定律的概念。摩尔定律基本上开始于我这一代，而我这一代就是计算机的时代。我在1984年毕业，那时正是个人电脑革命和微处理器的初期，并且每一年它们的性能几乎翻了一番。

And we describe it as every single year we double to performance But what it really means is that every single year the cost of computing passed And so the cost of computing in a course of five years reduced by factor of 10 the amount of energy Necessary to do computing to do any task reduced by a factor of 10 every single 10 years a hundred a thousand ten thousand A hundred thousand so on and so forth and so each one of The clicks of Moore's Law the amount of energy necessary to do any computing reduced That's the reason why you have a laptop today When back in 1984 is set on the desk You got to plug in it wasn't that fast and it consumed a lot of power today You know it is only a few watts and so Moore's Law Is the fundamental technology the fundamental technology trend that made it possible.

我们将其描述为每年性能加倍，但真正的意思是，每年计算成本都在下降。因此，在五年的过程中，计算成本减少了10倍，而完成任何计算任务所需的能量每10年减少10倍，依此类推，一直到100年、1000年，甚至更长时间。每次摩尔定律的进步，完成任何计算所需的能量就会减少。这就是为什么你今天可以使用笔记本电脑，而在1984年，电脑还需要放在桌上插电，不仅速度不快，而且耗电很多。如今的笔记本电脑仅需要几瓦特的功率。摩尔定律是实现这一切的基本技术趋势。

Well, what's going on in AI the reason why I'm videos here Is because in a we invented this new way of doing computing we call accelerated computing We started it 33 years ago took us about 30 years to Really made it huge breakthrough And that in that 30 years or so We took computing You know probably a factor of well, let me just say in the last ten years the last ten years We improved the performance of computing by one hundred thousand times Whoa imagine a car over the course of ten years it became a hundred thousand times faster Or at the same speed a hundred thousand times cheaper Or at the same speed a hundred thousand times less energy.

好的，人工智能领域正在发生什么？我在这里做视频的原因是因为我们发明了一种称为加速计算的新计算方式。我们大约在33年前开始了这项技术的研究，经过约30年的努力才取得了重大突破。在这30年里，我们大幅提升了计算能力。在过去的十年中，我们将计算性能提高了十万倍。想象一下，一辆汽车在十年里变得快了十万倍，或者以相同速度成本降低了十万倍，或者以相同速度能耗减少了十万倍。

If your car did that it on the energy at all What I mean what what I'm trying to say is that in ten years time The amount of energy necessary for artificial intelligence for most people will be Miniscule Utterly miniscule and so we'll have AI running in all kinds of things and all the time because it doesn't consume that much energy And so if you're a nation that uses AI for you know Almost everything in your social fabric of course you're going to need these AI factories But for a lot of countries, I think you're going to you're going to have excellent AI And you're not going to need as much energy everybody will be able to come. along. It's my point So currently that is a big bottleneck right is energy Yeah, it is the bottleneck the problem.

如果你的汽车在能量消耗方面发生类似的变化，我的意思是，我想说的是，在未来十年内，大多数人所需的人工智能的能量将会非常微小，微不足道。因此，我们可以在各种事物中使用人工智能，并且一直使用，因为它消耗的能量很少。因此，如果一个国家在其社会结构中几乎所有方面都使用人工智能，那么它当然需要这些人工智能工厂。但对于许多国家来说，我认为他们会拥有优秀的人工智能，同时不会需要过多的能量。每个人都能跟上，这是我的观点。所以目前最大的问题是能量，是的，这是一个瓶颈问题。

Yeah, is this so was it Google that is making nuclear power plants to operate one of its AI factories I haven't heard that but I think in the next six seven years, I think you're going to see a whole bunch of small nuclear reactors and By small and how big you're talking about hundreds of megawatts. Yeah, okay, and that these will be Local the two whatever specific company they have that's right. We're all be power generators. Whoa You know, just like just like you're You know somebody's farm. It's probably is the smartest way to do it right and it takes the burn off Yeah, it takes the burden off the grid. It takes yeah, and you could build as much as you need And you can contribute back to the grid.

“谷歌是否正在建设核电站来运营其一个人工智能工厂？”我没有听说过，但我认为在未来六到七年内，你会看到很多小型核反应堆。这里所说的小型其实是指数百兆瓦规模的反应堆。这些反应堆将针对特定公司在本地使用，作为独立发电机。这样做的方式就像经营一个农场一样，可能是最聪明的方法。这不仅减轻了电网的负担，还可以根据需要来建造，并且可以将多余的电力回馈给电网。

It's a really important point that I think you just made about Moore's law And the relationship to pricing because you know a laptop today like you can get one of those little map MacBook airs They're incredible. They're so strong unbelievably powerful battery life. I have to charge it. Yeah, I like crazy and It's not that expensive that's what I'm speaking like something like that I remember when that's just Moore's law right then there's the Nvidia law Oh, just right the the law I was talking to you about yeah computing that we invented right the reason why we're here Just new this new way of doing computing is like Moore's law on Energy drinks.

你刚才提到摩尔定律和定价之间的关系，这真是个重要的点。现在的笔记本电脑，比如那些小型的MacBook Air，性能非常出色，电池续航时间也很强，我用一整天都不用频繁充电，而且价格也不算贵。这就是摩尔定律的作用。而且还有Nvidia定律，你知道的，我之前跟你提到过的那个关于我们发明的新计算方式的定律。这个新方式就像是加了能量饮料的摩尔定律。

I mean, it's It's like Moore's law This like yeah Moore's law and Joe Rogan wow, that's interesting. Yeah, that's us. So explain that This this chip that you brought to Elon. Yeah, what's the significance of this like why is it so superior and so In 2012 Jeff Hinton's lab this gentleman I was talking talking about Ilya Suskabur Alex Khrushchevsky They Made a breakthrough in computer vision in literally creating a Piece of software Called Alex net and It's job was to recognize images and it recognized images At a Cape at a level computer vision, which is fundamental to intelligence if you can't perceive you can't as hard to have intelligence.

我觉得这有点像摩尔定律，真的，有点像摩尔定律，还有乔·罗根。哇，这很有趣。是的，这就是我们。那么你能解释一下吗？你带给Elon的这个芯片有什么重要意义，为什么它如此出色？在2012年，Jeff Hinton的实验室，这位我提到过的Ilya Suskabur和Alex Khrushchevsky，他们在计算机视觉方面取得了突破。他们创造了一款名为AlexNet的软件，其任务是识别图像，而且识别的准确度达到了计算机视觉的新高度。计算机视觉是智能的基础，如果你无法感知，就很难拥有智能。

And so computer vision is a fundamental pillar of not the only but fundamental pillar of and so breaking Computer vision were breaking through in computer vision is pretty foundational to almost everything that everybody wants to do in AI and so in 2012 Their lab in Toronto I made this made this breakthrough called Alex net and Alex net was able to recognize images So much better than any human created computer vision algorithm in the 30 years prior So all of these people all these scientists and we had many two working on computer vision algorithms and these two kids Ilya and Alex under the under under Jeff Hinton took a giant leap above it and it was Based on this thing called Alex net this neural network and the way it ran.

计算机视觉是人工智能领域的一个基本支柱，虽然不是唯一的，但绝对是核心之一。因此，在计算机视觉领域的突破对任何人想在人工智能中实现的几乎所有事情都是至关重要的。2012年，位于多伦多的实验室取得了一项名为AlexNet的突破。AlexNet在图像识别方面的表现比过去30年间由人类研发的任何计算机视觉算法都要好。这项成就是由两位年轻科学家Ilya和Alex在Jeff Hinton的指导下取得的，他们在计算机视觉领域迈出了巨大的一步，这一切都基于一种名为AlexNet的神经网络及其运行方式。

The way they made it work was literally buying two Nvidia graphics cards Because Nvidia's Nvidia's GPUs we've been working on this new way of doing computing and our GPUs application And it's basically a super computing application to back in in order to process computer games and what you have in your racing simulator That is called an image generator super computer And so Nvidia started our first application was computer graphics.

他们解决问题的方法是购买了两块Nvidia显卡。因为Nvidia的GPU一直致力于开发新的计算方式，而我们的GPU应用实际上是一种超级计算机的应用，用于处理电脑游戏以及赛车模拟器中需要的图像生成。这被称为图像生成超级计算机。因此，Nvidia的首个应用就是计算机图形。

And we applied this new way of doing computing where we do things in parallel and instead of sequentially A CPU does things sequentially Step one step two step three in our case we break the problem down and we give it to thousands of processors And so our way of doing computation Is much more complicated But if you're able to formulate the problem in the way that we Created called kuda. This is the invention of our company If you could formulate it in that way we could process everything simultaneously.

我们采用了一种新的计算方式，即并行处理，而不是顺序处理。传统的中央处理器（CPU）是按顺序进行操作的：第一步，第二步，第三步。而我们则把问题分解，通过将它交给成千上万个处理器来解决。因此，我们的计算方式更为复杂。如果你能按照我们公司发明的方法，即称为CUDA的方法来构建问题，就能同时处理所有事情。

Now in the case of computer graphics it's easier to do because every single pixel on your screen is not related to every other pixel and so I could render multiple parts of the screen at the same time. Not not completely true because you know maybe maybe the way lighting works or the way shadow works. There's a lot of dependency and such but computer graphics with all the this with all the pixels. I should be a bit process everything simultaneously and so we took this embarrassingly parallel problem called computer graphics and we applied it to this new way of doing computing and videos and videos accelerated computing. We put it in all of our graphics cards. Kids were buying it to play games where you probably don't know this but were the largest gaming platform in the world today.

在计算机图形学的情况下，这种处理相对容易，因为你屏幕上的每个像素都与其他像素无关，所以我可以同时渲染屏幕的多个部分。当然，这并不完全正确，因为可能会有光影效果的处理需要考虑像素之间的依赖关系。但总体上，计算机图形学可以看作一个非常适合并行处理的问题，我们将这种理念应用到了新型计算技术和视频加速计算中，并将其集成到了所有图形卡中。其实可能你不知道，现在孩子们买卡来玩游戏，而我们已经成为全球最大游戏平台了。

Oh, I know that. Oh, okay I used to make my own computers. I used to buy your graphics cards. Oh, that's super cool. Yeah set up S.L.I. with two graphics cards. Yeah, that's super cool. Oh, yeah, man. I used to be a quick junkie. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, okay, so S.L.I. I'll tell you the story in just a second and how it led to Elon I'm gonna still answering the question. And so anyways these two kids trained this model using the technique I described earlier on our GPUs because our GPUs could process things in parallel.

哦，我知道这个。哦，好吧，我以前自己组装电脑。我过去还买过你的显卡。哦，这真是太酷了。是的，我用两块显卡组成了S.L.I.。是啊，那真是太酷了。哦，是啊，兄弟。我以前可是个技术狂热者。哦，那太好了。那么，说到S.L.I.，我稍后会告诉你一个故事，以及它如何与埃隆（马斯克）相关。我会继续回答问题。总之，这两个孩子用我之前描述过的方法在我们的GPU上训练了这个模型，因为我们的GPU能并行处理任务。

It is essentially a supercomputer in a PC the reason why you used it for quake is because it is the first consumer supercomputer. Okay, and so anyways they made that breakthrough. We were working on computer vision at the time it caught my attention. And so we went to learn about it simultaneously this deep learning phenomenon was happening all over all over the country. Universities after another recognized the importance of deep learning and all of this work was happening at Stanford at Harvard at Berkeley just all over the place New York University, Lanka, you know, Yanle Kun, Andrew Yang at Stanford so many different places and I see a cropping up everywhere.

这基本上就是一台装在个人电脑里的超级计算机，而你用它玩《雷神之锤》的原因是因为它是首个面向消费者的超级计算机。无论如何，他们在这方面取得了突破。当时我们正在从事计算机视觉的研究，这引起了我的注意。所以我们去了解它的同时，这种深度学习的现象在全国范围内迅速发展。一个接一个的大学开始认识到深度学习的重要性，很多研究就在斯坦福、哈佛、伯克利等地方进行，比如纽约大学的Yann LeCun、斯坦福的Andrew Ng，都在各地不断涌现。

And so my curiosity asked you know, what is so special about this form of machine learning and we've known about machine learning for a very long time. We've known about AI for a very long time. We've known about neural networks for a very long time. What makes now the moment and so we realized that this architecture for deep neural networks back propagation the way deep neural networks were created we could probably scale this problem scale the solution to solve many problems that is essentially a universal function approximator.

于是，我出于好奇心问：“你知道，这种形式的机器学习有什么特别之处呢？我们已经很久以来就知道机器学习、人工智能和神经网络了，为什么现在会成为一个关键时刻呢？” 然后我们意识到，这种深度神经网络的架构——即反向传播以及深度神经网络的创建方式——可以扩展这个问题，扩展解决方案，用来解决许多问题。这实际上是一个通用的函数逼近器。

Okay, meaning meaning you know back when you're in school you have a you have a you have a box inside of it is a function you give it an input it gives you an output and the the reason why I call it an universal function approximator is that this computer instead of you describing the function a function could be a new in sequasion f equals m a that's a function. You write the function in software you give it input f a mass acceleration. It'll tell you to force okay and the way this computer works is really interesting.

好的，意思是，在你上学的时候，你会有一个盒子，里面有一个函数，你给它一个输入，它会给你一个输出。我称它为“通用函数逼近器”的原因是，这台计算机无需你亲自描述函数，例如一个像 "f = ma" 这样的方程就是一个函数。你在软件中编写这个函数，然后给它输入，比如力、质量、加速度，它会告诉你的力是多少。这台计算机的工作方式非常有趣。

You give it a universal function it's not f equals m a just the universal function. It's a big huge deep neural network and instead of describing the inside you give it examples of input and output and it figures out the inside. So you give it input and output and it figures out the inside a universal function approximator today it could be new in sequasion tomorrow. It could be Maxwell's equation it could be Ku-Lom's law could be thermal dynamics equation. It could be you know Schrodinger's equation for quantum physics and so you could put any you could have this describe almost anything so long as you have the input and the output.

你赋予它一个通用函数，这个函数不是简单的F=ma，而是一个庞大而深入的神经网络。与其描述内部结构，你只需提供输入和输出的例子，它就能自行推断出内部结构。今天你提供输入和输出，它就能推算出内部结构，成为一个通用函数逼近器。今天它可以是牛顿方程，明天它可能是麦克斯韦方程，或者是库仑定律，甚至可能是热力学方程，也可能是量子物理中的薛定谔方程。总之，只要你有输入和输出，这个神经网络几乎可以描述任何事物。

So long as you have the input in the output or it could learn the input and output and so we took a step back and we said hang on second this isn't just for computer vision deep learning could solve any problem. All the problems that are interesting so long as we have input and output. Now what has input and output? Well work the world the world has input and output and so we could have a computer that could learn almost anything machine learning artificial intelligence.

只要在输出中有输入，或者系统能够学习输入和输出，那么我们就停下来思考，这不仅适用于计算机视觉，深度学习可以解决任何有趣的问题，只要有输入和输出即可。那么，什么东西有输入和输出呢？是的，整个世界都有输入和输出。因此，我们可以有一台几乎能够学习任何事情的电脑，这就是机器学习和人工智能的潜力。

And so we reasoned that maybe this is the fundamental breakthrough that we needed there were a couple of things that had to be solved. For example, we had to believe that you could actually scale this up to giant systems it was running in a they had two graphics cards two GTX 580s which by the way is exactly your S.I. configuration. Yeah, okay so that GTX 580 S.I. was the revolutionary computer that put deep learning on the map. Wow it was 2018 and you were using it to play quick.

因此，我们推测这可能是我们所需的基础性突破，有几个问题需要解决。例如，我们必须相信可以将其扩展到巨大的系统。在当时，它运行在两个GTX 580显卡上，顺便说一下，这正好是你的S.I.配置。是的，好吧，那台GTX 580 S.I.正是让深度学习进入人们视野的革命性计算机。哇，那是2018年，而你用它来玩“快攻”。

Wow, that's crazy. That was the moment. That was the big bang of modern AI. We were lucky because we were inventing this technology, this computing approach. We were lucky that they found it. Turns out they were gamers, and it was lucky they found it and it was lucky that we paid attention to that moment. It was a little bit like, you know that Star Trek, you know, first contact. The Vulcans had to have seen the warp drive at that very moment. If they didn't witness the warp drive, you know, they would have never come to earth and everything would have never happened.

哇，太不可思议了。那就是那个时刻，那是现代人工智能的“宇宙大爆炸”。我们很幸运，因为我们正在发明这种技术和计算方法。幸运的是，他们找到了它。结果发现，他们是游戏玩家，幸运的是，他们发现了它，而我们也在那个时刻注意到了这一点。这有点像《星际迷航》中的第一次接触，瓦肯人当时必须看到曲速引擎的出现。如果他们没有见证到曲速引擎的诞生，后续一切都不会发生。

It's a little bit like if I hadn't paid attention to that moment, that flash, and that flash didn't last long. If I hadn't paid attention to that flash or our company didn't pay attention to it, who knows what would happen? But we saw that and we reasoned our way into this is a universal function approximator. This is not just a computer vision approximator; we could use this for all kinds of things if we could solve two problems. The first problem is that we have to prove to ourselves it could scale. The second problem we had to wait for, I guess contribute to and wait for, is the world will never have enough data on input and output where we could supervise the AI to learn everything.

这有点像如果我当时没注意到那个瞬间，那个闪光，而且那个闪光也没有持续很久。如果我没有留意到那个闪光，或者我们公司没有注意到，不知道会发生什么。但我们看到了，并推理出这是一个通用的函数近似器。这不仅仅是一个计算机视觉近似器；如果我们能够解决两个问题，我们可以用它做各种各样的事情。第一个问题是我们必须证明给自己看，它能够扩展。第二个问题是我们必须等待，或者说参与并等待，因为这个世界永远不会有足够的输入和输出数据来监督AI学习所有东西。

For example, if we have to supervise our children on everything they learn, the amount of information they could learn is limited. We needed the AI, we needed the computer to have a method of learning without supervision. And that's where we had to wait a few more years, but unsupervised AI learning is now here and so the AI could learn by itself. And the reason why the AI could learn by itself is because we have many examples of right answers. Like for example, if I want to teach an AI how to predict the next word, I could just grab a whole bunch of texts we already have, mask out the last word, and make it try and try and try again until it predicts the next one.

例如，如果我们必须监督孩子们学习的每一件事，他们能获取的信息量就会受到限制。我们需要人工智能（AI），需要计算机具备一种不需要监督的学习方法。于是，我们不得不再等几年，但现在无监督的AI学习已经实现，这样AI就可以自主学习了。AI之所以能够自学，是因为我们已经有很多正确答案的例子。比如，如果我想教一个AI预测下一个词是什么，我可以拿一大堆已有的文本，遮住最后一个词，让它一次又一次地尝试，直到它能够正确预测出下一个词。

Or I mask out random words inside the text and I make it try and try and try and predicts it. You know, like "Mary Mary goes down to the bank," is that a river bank or a money bank? Well, if you're going to go down to the bank, it's probably a river bank. Okay, so and it might not be obvious even from that— it might need an "uh," and "uh," and "caught a fish." Okay, now you know it must be the river bank. And so you give these AIs a whole bunch of these examples, and you mask out the words; it'll predict the next one.

我会在文本中随机遮住一些单词，然后让它一次又一次地尝试预测。比如说，"Mary Mary goes down to the bank"——这里的“bank”是指河岸还是银行呢？如果你要去银行，可能是指河岸。不过，仅从这句话可能还不明显，你还需要听到诸如“呃，呃，捉到一条鱼”这样的线索。这样你就知道这一定是指河岸了。于是，你给这些人工智能大量这样的例子，并遮住一些单词，它就会试着预测下一个词。

Okay, and so unsupervised learning came along. These two ideas, that fact that it's scalable and unsupervised learning came along, we were convinced that we had to put everything into this and help create this industry because we're going to solve a whole bunch of interesting problems. And that was in 2012. By 2016, I had built this computer called the DGX-1, the one that you saw me give to Elon is called DGX Spark. The DGX-1 was $300,000. It cost NVIDIA a few billion dollars to make the first one. Instead of two chips, SSL I, we connected eight chips with a technology called NVLink, but it's basically SSL supercharged.

好的，然后无监督学习开始兴起。这两个想法，一个是它具备可扩展性，另一个是无监督学习的兴起，让我们深信必须全力投入其中，并帮助创造这个行业，因为我们将解决一大堆有趣的问题。这是在2012年。到了2016年，我制造了一种名为DGX-1的计算机，你看到我送给Elon的那台叫做DGX Spark。DGX-1的价格为30万美元，英伟达花费了几十亿美元才打造出第一台。与使用两个芯片的SSL I不同，我们采用了名为NVLink的技术连接了八个芯片，基本上可以认为是SSL的超级升级版。

Okay, and so we connected eight of these chips together instead of just two and all of them work together just like your Quake rig did to solve this deep learning problem to train this model. And so I created, we created this thing. I announced it at GTC and at one of our annual events, and I described this deep learning thing, computer vision thing, and this computer called DGX-1. The audience was like completely silent. They had no idea what I was talking about. And I was lucky because I had known Elon and I helped him build the first computer for Model 3, the Model S.

好的，所以我们不是只连接两个芯片，而是将八个芯片连接在一起，让它们像你用来解决深度学习问题的Quake设备一样，一起工作来训练这个模型。因此我创建了这个东西，并在GTC和我们的一次年度活动上宣布了它。我描述了这个深度学习的东西、计算机视觉的东西，还有这台叫做DGX-1的计算机，观众完全安静下来。他们完全没听懂我在讲什么。我感到幸运的是，我认识Elon，并曾帮助他为Model 3和Model S打造了第一台计算机。

And when he wanted to start working on autonomous vehicles, I helped him build the computer that went into the Model S AV system, his full self-driving system. We were basically the FSD computer version one. And so we were already working together and when I announced this thing, no one in the world wanted it. I had no purchase orders, not one, nobody wanted to buy it, nobody wanted to be part of it. Except for Elon; he goes, he was at the event and we were doing a fireside chat about the future of self-driving cars. Well, I think it's like 2016— yeah, maybe at that time was 2015 and he goes, "You know what? I have a company that could really use this." I was like, wow, my first customer.

当他想开始研究自动驾驶汽车时，我帮他打造了用于Model S自动驾驶系统的计算机，我们就是FSD计算机的第一版。所以我们已经在一起合作了。当我宣布这个项目时，世界上没有人感兴趣。我没有收到任何订单，一个也没有，没人想买，也没人想参与。只有Elon例外；他在活动现场，我们正在就自动驾驶汽车的未来进行炉边谈话。大概是在2016年，也许是2015年，那时他说：“你知道吗？我有一家公司很需要这个。”我当时想，哇，我的第一个客户。

And so I was pretty excited about it and he goes, "Yeah, we have this company. It's a non-profit company." And all the blood drained out of my face. Yeah, I just spent a few billion dollars building this thing. It costs three hundred thousand dollars and, you know, the chances of a non-profit being able to pay for this thing is where ox meets zero. And he goes, "You know, this is a— it's an AI company and it's a non-profit and we could really use one of these supercomputers."

我当时非常激动，他说：“是的，我们有这家公司。它是一家非营利公司。” 听到这话，我脸上的血色瞬间消退。是啊，我刚花了几十亿美金建造了这个东西。它要价三十万美元，而非营利组织能负担得起这个东西的可能性几乎为零。他又说：“你知道的，这是一个人工智能公司，而且是非营利的，我们真的很需要这样的超级计算机。”

And so I picked it up. I built the first one for ourselves; we're using it inside the company. I boxed one up. I drove it up to San Francisco and... I delivered it to Elon in 2016 a bunch of researchers where they were there Peter Beale was there Ilya was scared there was a bunch of people there and uh I Walked up to the second floor where they were all kind of in a room this smaller than your place here and and That place turned out to have been opening. I 2016 just a bunch of people sitting in a room It's not really a non-profit anymore. They're not they're not nonprofit anymore. Yeah, where it how that works Yeah, yeah, but anyhow Anyhow Elon was there. Yeah, it was it was really a great great moment. Oh, yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's it Look at you bro same jacket Look at that I haven't aged Not not a lick of black hair though Size of it is Significantly small that was the other day.

于是，我把它捡了起来。我为我们公司造了第一个设备，现在我们正在内部使用它。我把其中一个打包装好，开车送到旧金山……在2016年，我亲自交给了埃隆，还有一群研究人员，彼得·比尔也在场，伊利亚也在那里，还有很多人。我走上了二楼，他们都在一个房间里，那个房间比你这里的地方还要小。那个地方后来开放了。2016年那里就只是一些人坐在一个房间里，他们现在不再是非盈利组织了。他们不再是非盈利组织了，无论如何……不管怎么说，埃隆就在那儿。那真是一个很棒的时刻。看，同样的夹克，你看看，我一点都没老，头发不再有黑色了。大小明显减小了，那还是前几天的事。

Okay, so oh yeah, there you go. Yeah, look at the difference exactly the same industrial design He's holding it in his hand Here here's the amazing thing djx1 was one petaflops. Okay, that's a lot of flops and djx spark is one petaflops nine years later Wow the same the same amount of computing horsepower and a much more shrunken down Yeah, and instead of $300,000 it's now $4,000 and it's the size of a small book Incredible crazy Yeah, I'll technology moves anyways. That's the reason why I wanted to get give him the first one Because I gave him the first one 2016. It's so fascinating I mean you if you wanted to make a story for a film I mean that would be the story that like what What better scenario if if it really does become a digital life form How funny would it be that it is birthed out of the desire for Computer graphics for video games Exactly.

好的，哦对，就是这样。你看，完全相同的工业设计。他拿在手里，这里有个惊人的事情，djx1 的计算能力是一千万亿次浮点计算（petaflops）。很厉害了，而九年后，djx spark 同样是这一计算能力。哇，相同的计算性能，却小得多。而且价格从30万美元降到了4000美元，大小只有一本小书那么大。不可思议，技术发展的速度真是疯狂。这就是为什么我想要把第一个设备交给他的原因。因为我在2016年给了他第一个设备，这真让人着迷。如果你要为电影编个故事，这就是个很好的题材。真要变成一种数字生命形态，那是不是很有趣？这种生命形态竟然是出于对电子游戏的计算图形需求而诞生的。没错。

It's kind of crazy. Yeah kind of crazy when you think about it that way because It's just perfect origin story computer graphics Was one of the hardest computer super computer problems Generating reality and also one of the most profitable to solve because computer games are so popular When Nvidia started in 1993 We were trying to create this new computing approach the question is what's the killer app and The the problem we wanted to the the company wanted to Create a new type of computing problem computing architecture a computing a new type of computer That can solve problems that normal computers can't solve well The applications that existed in the industry in 1993 Are applications that normal computers can solve because if the normal computers can't solve them why would the application exist?

这有点疯狂。当你这样想的时候，确实有点疯狂，因为这是一个完美的起源故事：计算机图形曾是最困难的超级计算机问题之一，同时也是最有利润可图的，因为电脑游戏非常受欢迎。Nvidia在1993年成立时，我们正在尝试创建一种新的计算方式。问题是，什么是杀手级应用？公司希望创造一种新的计算问题、新的计算架构和新的计算机类型，能够解决普通计算机无法解决的问题。然而，1993年行业中存在的应用程序都是普通计算机可以解决的，因为如果普通计算机无法解决这些问题，为什么这些应用程序会存在呢？

And so we had a mission statement For a company that has no chance of success But I didn't know that in 1993 it just sounded like a good idea right And so if we created this thing that can solve problems you know, it's like You actually have to go create the problem And so that's what we did In 1993 there was no quake John Carmack hadn't been reduced to release doom yet You probably remember that sure yeah and and there were no applications for it And so I went to Japan because the arcade industry Had this at the time of Sega even remember sure the arcade machines They came out with 3D arcade systems virtual fighter Daytona virtual cop All of those arcade games were in 3d for the very very first time and the technology they were using Was from Martin Marietta the flight simulators they took the guts out of a flight simulator and I put it into an arcade machine The system that you have over here It's got to be a million times more powerful than that arcade machine and that was a flight simulator for NASA

在1993年，我们为一家注定不成功的公司起草了使命宣言。当时我并不知道这一点，只是觉得这主意听起来不错。因此，我们创立了一个可以解决问题的东西，不过你得先去创造那个问题，所以这就是我们当时的做法。1993年时，还没有《雷神之锤》（Quake），约翰·卡马克（John Carmack）也还没有推出《毁灭战士》（Doom）。那时候没有相应的应用程序。所以我去了日本，因为那时的街机产业，尤其是世嘉（Sega），还令人记忆犹新。街机系统首次推出了3D游戏，如《VR战士》（Virtua Fighter）、《Daytona USA》和《VR战警》（Virtua Cop），这些游戏首次实现了3D效果，他们用了马丁·玛丽埃塔公司（Martin Marietta）用在飞行模拟器里的技术，他们把飞行模拟器的核心技术用在了街机上。现在你随身带的设备其性能要比当时的街机强上百万倍，那时候的街机还是给NASA用的飞行模拟器呢。

Whoa And so they took the guts out of that They were they were using it for flight simulation of jets and you know Space shuttle and and they took the guts out of that And Sega Had this brilliant computer developer his name is Yusuzuki Yusuzuki and Miyamoto Sega and Nintendo these were the You know the incredible Pioneers the visionaries the incredible artists and they're both very very technical They were the origins really of the gaming industry and Yusuzuki Pioneer 3D graphics gaming and So I went we created this company and there were no apps and we were Spending all of our afternoons you know we told our family were going to work But it was just the three of us, you know who's gonna know and so we went to Curtis's might one of us one of the founders Went to Curtis's townhouse and Chris and I were married we have kids Already had Spencer and Madison. They were probably two years old and And Chris's kids are about the same age as ours

哇哦，于是他们把核心部分给拿出来了。他们原本用它来进行喷气式战斗机和航天飞机的飞行模拟，然后把它的核心拆掉。世嘉（Sega）有一位出色的计算机开发者，名叫铃木裕。铃木裕和宫本茂（Miyamoto），世嘉和任天堂（Nintendo）都是非常了不起的先锋、充满远见的艺术家，他们也都非常懂技术。他们可以说是真正的游戏产业的起源，而铃木裕是3D图形游戏的先驱。所以我们就去创办了这家公司，那时候还没有什么应用程序。我们每天都会告诉家人我们要去工作，但其实只有我们三个人在，谁会知道呢。于是我们就去柯蒂斯（Curtis）的家中，他是创始人之一。我和Chris已经结婚并有孩子了，当时我们的孩子斯宾塞（Spencer）和麦迪逊（Madison）大概两岁，而Chris的孩子也和我们的孩子年龄差不多。

And we would go to work in this townhouse, but you know when you're a startup and the mission statement is the way we described. You're not gonna have too many customers calling you and so we had really nothing to do. And so after lunch we would always have a great lunch. After lunch we would go to the arcades and play the Sega vert you know the Sega virtue fighter and Daytona and all those games and analyze how they're doing it trying to figure out how they were doing that. And so we decided um let's just go to Japan and let's convince Sega to move those applications into the PC and we would start the PC gaming the 3D gaming industry partnering with Sega that's how Nvidia started wow.

我们会去这个联排别墅工作，但你知道，当你是一个初创公司时，任务声明像我们描述的那样，你不会有太多客户打电话来，所以我们实际上没什么事可做。所以午饭后，我们总是吃得很开心。午饭后，我们会去游戏厅，玩世嘉的游戏，比如世嘉Virtua Fighter、Daytona等，然后分析他们是如何做到的，试图弄清楚他们是怎么设计这些游戏的。于是我们决定去日本，说服世嘉把这些游戏应用程序移植到PC上，我们将与世嘉合作启动PC游戏和3D游戏行业，这就是Nvidia的起源，哇。

And so in exchange for them part developing their games for our computers in the PC, we would build a chip for their game console. That was the partnership I build a chip for your game console you port the Sega games to us and um and then they paid us a you know at the time a quite a significant amount of money to build that game console. And that was kind of the beginning of Nvidia getting started and we thought we were on our way. And so I started with a business plan the mission statement that was impossible. We lucked into the Sega partnership. We started taking off started building our game console and about a couple years into it.

为了让他们将部分游戏为我们的PC开发，我们决定为他们的游戏机制作一个芯片。这就是我们的合作关系：我为你的游戏机制作芯片，你把世嘉的游戏移植到我们的平台。然后，他们也支付给我们一笔相当可观的费用来制作那个游戏机。这可以说是Nvidia的起步阶段，我们感到前途光明。我从一个不可能实现的商业计划和使命声明开始，幸运地遇到了和世嘉的合作机会。我们开始起步，开始制作我们自己的游戏机，大约两年后，我们的事业初具规模。

But we discovered our first technology didn't work. It would have been a flaw, it was a flaw in all of the technology ideas that we had. The architecture concepts were sound, but the way we were doing computer graphics was exactly backwards. You know instead of I won't bore you with the technology, but instead of inverse texture mapping we were doing forward texture mapping. Instead of triangles, we did curved surfaces. So other people did it flat we did it round um. Other technology, the technology that ultimately won, the technology we used today has Z buffers, it automatically sorted. We had an architecture with no Z buffers; the application had to sort it.

但我们发现我们的第一项技术行不通。这可能是个缺陷，而且是所有技术构想中的一个缺陷。我们的架构概念是正确的，但我们处理计算机图形的方式却完全反过来了。我就不详细讲技术细节了，但简而言之，我们采用了前向纹理映射而不是逆向纹理映射。其他人用平面而我们使用弯曲曲面。其他技术，那些最终取得胜利的技术，以及我们今天使用的技术，都有Z缓冲，它可以自动排序。而我们的架构没有Z缓冲，需要应用程序来进行排序。

So we chose a bunch of technology approaches that three major technology choices, all three choices were wrong. Okay, so this is how incredibly smart we were. And so in 1995, early mid-95, we realized we're going down the wrong path. Meanwhile, Silicon Valley was packed with 3D graphics startups because it was the most exciting technology at that time. And so 3D effects and rendition and Silicon graphics were coming in Intel was already in there and you know gosh what added up eventually to a hundred different startups we had to compete against. Everybody had chosen the right technology approach and we chose the wrong one.

所以我们选择了一堆技术方案，其中有三个主要的技术选择，而这三个选择都是错的。好吧，这就是我们“聪明绝顶”的表现。所以在1995年初到年中，我们意识到自己走错了方向。同时，硅谷满是3D图形初创公司，因为那时候这是最令人兴奋的技术。像3D Effects、Rendition和Silicon Graphics这样的公司都参与进来了，英特尔早已在其中，你知道，加起来总共有大约一百家创业公司，我们都要与之竞争。大家都选择了正确的技术方向，而我们却选错了。

And so we were the first company to start we found ourselves essentially dead last with the wrong answer. And so the company was in trouble and ultimately we have to make several decisions. The first decision is well if we change now we will be the last company. And even if we changed into the technology that we believe to be right, we'd still be dead. And so that argument you know do we change and therefore be dead? Don't change and make this technology work somehow? Or go do something completely different? That question stirred the company strategically and was a hard question.

所以，我们是第一个开始的公司，但结果是我们得出了一个错误的结论，落到了最后的位置。公司因此陷入了困境，最终我们不得不做出几个决定。第一个决定是：如果我们现在改变方向，我们将成为最后一个公司。即使我们转向我们认为正确的技术，我们仍然无法成功。因此，就是要回答这个问题：我们是否要改变方向然后仍然失败？还是不改变方向，努力让这项技术奏效？或者干脆去做完全不同的事情？这个问题在战略上动摇了公司，也是一个艰难的抉择。

I eventually you know advocated for it. We don't know what the right strategy is, but we know what the wrong technology is. So let's stop doing it the wrong way and let's give ourselves a chance to go figure out what the strategy is. The second thing, the second problem we had was our company was running on money and I had I was in a contract with Sega and I owed them this game console. And if that contract would have been cancelled we'd be dead. We would have vaporized instantly.

最终，你知道，我为此而倡导。我们不知道什么是正确的策略，但我们知道什么是错误的技术。所以，让我们停止用错误的方式做事，给自己一个机会去弄清楚正确的策略是什么。第二个问题是，我们的公司依靠资金运营，而我与世嘉有合同，我欠他们一台游戏机。如果那个合同被取消，我们就完蛋了，我们会立刻消失无踪。

Whoo! And so uh I went to Japan and I explained to the CEO of Sega, Erie Majuri, really great man. He was the former CEO of Honda USA, went back to Sega to run Sega, went back to Japan run Sega. And I explained to him that and I was uh I guess that was what 30, 33 years old. You know when I was 33 years old I still have acne and I get this you know Chinese kid I was super skinny and he was already kind of elder. And I went to him and I said I said listen I've got some bad news for you and and first the technology that we promised you doesn't work.

哇！于是我去了日本，我向世嘉的CEO Erie Majuri 解释了一些事情，他是个很棒的人。他曾是本田美国的前任CEO，然后回到世嘉领导公司，再回到日本领导世嘉。我向他解释说，当时我大概是30或33岁吧。你知道，我那时候33岁的时候还在长痘，看起来就像个很瘦的中国小孩，而他已经算是年长的了。我去找他，说：“听着，我有个坏消息要告诉你，首先是我们承诺给你的技术并没有成功。”

And second we shouldn't finish your contract because we'd waste all your money and you would have something that doesn't work. And I recommend you find another partner to build your game console. Whoa! And so I'm terribly sorry that we've set you back in your product roadmap. And third even though you're going to I'm asking you to let me out of the contract I still need the money. Because if you didn't give me the money we'd vaporize overnight. And so I explained it to humbly, honestly, I gave him the background, explained to him why the technology doesn't work, why we thought it was going to work, why it doesn't work.

其次，我们不应该终止你的合同，因为这样会浪费你所有的钱，而且你会得到一个不能正常工作的东西。我建议你找另一位合作伙伴来开发你的游戏机。哇！很抱歉我们让你的产品开发计划受到了阻碍。最后，虽然我请求解除合同，但我仍然需要资金支持。因为如果你不给我资金，我们公司可能会在一夜之间崩溃。因此，我谦逊而诚实地向他解释了，告诉他技术为何无法正常运作，为什么我们一开始认为它会成功，以及为什么最终没有成功。

And I asked him to convert the last five million dollars that they were going to complete the contract to give us that money as an investment Instead. And he said But it's very likely your company will go out of business Even with my investment. And it was completely true Back then 1995 $5 million was a lot of money It's a lot of money today $5 million was a lot of money. And here's a pile of competitors doing it right What are the chances that giving him video $5 million That we would develop the right strategy That he would get a return on that $5 million or even get it back 0% Whew You do the math is 0% If If I were sitting there right there I wouldn't have done it $5 million was a amount of money to say at the time.

我要求他把他们用于完成合同的最后五百万美元转而作为投资给我们。他说，“即使我进行投资，你们公司也很可能会倒闭。”这在当时是完全正确的。1995年的五百万美元是一笔巨款，即便在今天也是。那时候有很多竞争对手在做正确的事情，那我们拿了五百万美元，又能有多大概率制定出正确的策略，从而让他能收回这笔投资呢？几乎是0%。唉，稍微算一下，就是0%。如果当时是我坐在那，我也不会那样做。五百万美元在那时是一笔巨款。

And so I told him that That um I If you invest it that $5 million in us It is most likely to be lost. But if you didn't invest that money We'd be out of business and we wouldn't have no chance. And I I told him that I I don't even know exactly what I said in the end but I Told him that I would understand If he decided not to But it would make the world to me if he didn't. He went off and thought about it for a couple of days and came back and said we'll do it Wow Erie Modjury To how to correct what it was doing wrong Oh wait, oh man wait until I tell you the rest of it's It's scary even scarier.

我告诉他，如果你投资那500万美元在我们身上，很可能会亏损。但如果你不投资，我们的公司可能就撑不下去了，我们就没有任何机会了。说实话，我都不太记得最后我具体说了什么，但是我告诉他，如果他决定不投资，我是可以理解的。不过，如果他决定投资，对我来说意义重大。他考虑了几天后回来告诉我他们决定投资。哇，这真是太令人惊讶了。我还没告诉你接下来的部分，更加让人害怕。

Oh no And so so um So what he what he decided was was uh Jensen was a young man he liked That's it wow to this day That's nuts Boy you know but the world owes that guy No doubt right What he he he saw he saw upgraded today in Japan And if he would have kept that five The the investment I think it'd be worth probably about a trillion dollars today I know but the moment we went public they sold it they goes wow that's a miracle And so They sold it yeah they sold it at Nvidia valuation about 300 million That's our IPO valuation 300 million.

哦，不好。于是，他决定的是……詹森是个年轻人，他喜欢……就是这样，哇，直到今天，这真是疯狂。你知道，这个世界欠他一份人情，毫无疑问，对吧？他看到今天在日本升级了。如果他当初保留了那五个投资，估计现在可能价值大约一万亿美元。我知道，但我们上市的时候，他们就卖掉了，他们觉得，哇，这是个奇迹。所以，他们卖掉了，是的，他们在英伟达的估值大约是3亿美元时卖掉的。那是我们IPO的估值，3亿美元。

And so so anyhow I was incredibly grateful um And then now we have to figure out what to do Because we still were doing the wrong strategy wrong technology. So unfortunately we had to lay off most of the company we shrunk the company all back All the people working on the game console, you know, we had to shrunk it all but shrink it all back and um And then and then somebody told me that but Jensen We've never built it this way before we've never built it the right way before We've only know how to build it the wrong way.

因此，不管怎么说，我非常感激。然而，现在我们必须想办法解决问题，因为我们采用的策略和技术都是错误的。不幸的是，我们不得不裁掉公司大部分员工，把公司规模缩小。所有从事游戏主机项目的人，我们都不得不撤回工作。然后，有人对我说：“Jensen，我们以前从未这样做过——从未以正确的方式建造过，我们只知道如何以错误的方式建造。”

And So nobody in the company knew how to build this Super computing image generator 3D graphics thing that silicon graphics did. And so so uh, I said okay Ha hard can it be You got all these 30 companies you know 50 companies doing it how hard can it be. And so luckily There was a textbook written by the company silicon graphics And so I went down to the store I had 200 bucks in my pocket and I bought three textbooks only three they had 60 dollars a piece I bought the three textbooks I brought it back and I gave one to each one of the architects and I said read that and let's go save the company.

在公司里，没有人知道如何构建这个超级计算图像生成3D图形的东西，正是硅谷图形公司所做的。所以我就想，这能有多难呢？有这么多公司在做这个事情，有五十来家，能有多难呢？幸运的是，硅谷图形公司编写了一本教科书。所以我去了商店，口袋里有200美元，我买了三本教科书，他们每本60美元。我买了三本，把它们带回来，给每位架构师发了一本，并对他们说，读这个，我们去拯救公司吧。

And so So they they read this textbook Learn from the giant at the time silicon graphics About how to do 3D graphics. But the thing that was amazing and what makes him video special today is that The people that are there are able to start from first principles Learn best known art But re-implemented in a way that's never been done before. And so When we re-imagined The technology of 3D graphics we re-imagined it in a way That manifests today The modern 3D graphics we really invented modern 3D graphics But we learned from Previous known arts and we implemented fundamentally differently.

他们读了这本教材，从当时的行业巨头硅谷图形公司学习如何进行3D图形处理。令人惊奇的是，使得英伟达（NVIDIA）与众不同的原因在于，该公司的人员能够从基本原理出发，学习已有的最佳技术，并以一种全新的方式重新实现这些技术。当我们重新构思3D图形技术时，我们以一种全新的方式进行构想，这种方式催生了今天的现代3D图形。我们实际上发明了现代3D图形，但我们是从已有的技术中学习，并以一种根本不同的方法进行实现的。

What did you do to change it? Well, you know, the ultimately Ultimately the um The simple the simple answer is that the way silicon graphics works The geometry engine is a bunch of software running on processors. We took that and Eliminated all the generality The general purposeness of it and we reduced it down into the most essential part of 3D graphics And we hard coded it into the chip. And so instead of something general purpose we hard coded it very specifically into Just the limited applications Limited functionality necessary for video games And that Capability that superch and and because we reinvented a whole bunch of stuff It's super charged the capability that one little chip And our one little chip was generating images us fast as a $1 million image generator that was the big breakthrough we took a million dollar thing And we put it into the graphics card that you now put into your gaming PC And that was our big invention.

你是怎么改变它的？嗯，你知道，最终答案其实很简单。硅谷图形技术的工作原理是，几何引擎是一组运行在处理器上的软件。我们对它进行了改进，去掉了它的通用性，把它简化为3D图形中最核心的部分，然后将其硬编码到芯片中。因此，与其做一个通用性的解决方案，我们把它专门化，限制在视频游戏所需的有限功能和应用中。通过重新设计，我们极大地增强了这个小芯片的性能。结果是，我们的小芯片能够以和价值100万美元的图像生成器一样快的速度生成图像。这是一个重大的突破，我们将一个价值百万美元的技术缩小到一个可放入你游戏电脑的显卡中，这就是我们的重大发明。

And then and of course the question is um How do you compete against these 30 other companies doing what they were doing And And there we did we did several things one I Instead of building a 3D graphics Chip for every 3D graphics application We decided to build a 3D graphics chip for one application we bet the farm on video games The needs of video games are very different than needs for CAD Needs for flight simulators. They're related but not the same And so we narrowly focused our problem statement so I could reject all of the other complexities And we shrunk it down into this one little focus and then we supercharged the three gamers.

然后，当然问题就来了，我们如何在与其他 30 家做相同事情的公司竞争？对此，我们采取了几个措施。首先，我们没有为每个 3D 图形应用构建一款 3D 图形芯片，而是决定为一个应用构建，我们把所有的赌注都押在视频游戏上。视频游戏的需求和 CAD（计算机辅助设计）以及飞行模拟器的需求非常不同，虽然它们有所关联，但并不相同。所以我们把问题聚焦得非常窄，这样我就可以排除所有其他复杂因素，把它缩小到一个小的重点上，然后大力提升三名游戏玩家的体验。

And the second thing that we did Was we created a whole ecosystem of Working with game developers and getting their their games ported and adapted to our silicon So that we could get Turn essentially What is a technology business Into a platform business into a game platform business. So we you know g forces really Today, it's also the most advanced 3D graphics technology in the world But a long time ago g forces really the game console inside your PC It's you know it runs windows it runs accelerants powerpoint of course those are easy things But it's fundamental purpose Was simply to turn your PC into a game console. So we we were the first technology company To build all of this incredible technology in service of one audience gamers.

我们做的第二件事情是创建了一个完整的生态系统，与游戏开发者合作，将他们的游戏移植并适配到我们的芯片上。这使我们能够逐步将一个纯粹的技术业务转变为一个游戏平台业务。如今，G Forces不仅是世界上最先进的3D图形技术之一，回想过去，G Forces其实就是你电脑里的游戏主机。它能运行Windows、加速PowerPoint等这些简单的任务，但它最根本的目的就是把你的电脑变成一个游戏主机。因此，我们是首个为游戏玩家构建这项出色技术的公司。

Now of course in 1993 The gaming industry didn't exist But by the time that John Carmack came along and the Doom phenomenon happened and then Quake came out as you know That entire all that entire community boom took off. Do you know where the name doom came from? It came from this There's a scene in the movie the color of money Where Tom Cruise who's this elite pool player shows up at this pool hall and this local hustler says What he got in the case and he opens up this case. He has a special pool queue. He goes in here And he opens it up he goes doom That's where it came from. Yeah, cuz Carmack said that's what they wanted to do to the gaming industry Doom that when doom came out it would just be everybody be like oh we're fucked. Oh wow That's awesome and then amazing because it's the perfect name for the game.

当然了，在1993年，游戏行业尚未形成。但随着约翰·卡马克的出现和《Doom》的现象级成功，再到《Quake》的推出，整个社区迅速蓬勃发展起来。你知道《Doom》这个名字的由来吗？它来自电影《金钱本色》中的一个场景。在这部电影里，汤姆·克鲁斯饰演的一位顶级撞球选手来到一个撞球厅，当地的一个投机者问他：“你的盒子里有什么？”他打开盒子，里面是一根特别的撞球杆，他说：“Doom。”这就是名字的来源。卡马克曾说，他们希望《Doom》问世时，能让整个游戏行业感到震惊，人们会觉得“我们完了。”这实在是太棒了，因为这个名字对这款游戏来说非常完美。

Yeah Yeah, the name came out of that scene in that movie. That's right Well, and then of course Tim Swini and Epic games and And the 3d gaming genre took off. Yes, and so if you just kind of in the beginning was no gaming industry We had no choice but to focus the company on one thing That one thing So really incredible origin story. Oh, it's it's amazing like you must like look back at disaster is what Million dollar that pivot with that conversation with that gentleman if he did not agree to that if he did not like you What would the world look like today that's crazy.

是的，是的，这个名字就是从那部电影里的那个场景中得来的。没错。而且当然还有Tim Sweeney和Epic游戏公司，以及3D游戏类型的兴起。是的，所以在刚开始的时候，游戏行业其实并不存在。我们别无选择，只能将公司专注于一个目标，就这一件事。这真是一个令人惊叹的起源故事。哦，太不可思议了，就像你必须回头审视这场灾难一样，那次谈话和那个先生的一百万美元转折点，如果他不同意，如果他不喜欢你，今天的世界会是什么样的，这真是疯狂。

Oh wait then then our entire life hung on another gentleman And so so now Here we are we built so before GeForce was riva 128 Riva 128 saved the company it revolutionized computer graphics The performance cost performance ratio of 3d graphics for gaming was off the charts amazing and We're getting ready to to ship it get what we're building it But we're uh, so as you know 5 million dollars doesn't last long And so every single month every single month uh, we were drawing down You have to build it prototype it you have to design it prototype it Get the silicon back Which costs a lot of money Test it with software Because without the software testing the chip you don't know the chip works And Then you're going to find a bug probably Because every time you test something you find bugs Which means you have to tape it out again Which is more time more money.

哦，等等，然后我们的人生都寄托在另一位先生身上。于是，于是现在我们到了这里，我们在努力构建。在GeForce之前，还有Riva 128。Riva 128拯救了公司，它彻底改变了计算机图形技术。它在游戏3D图形方面的性能和性价比都极其出色。我们正准备推出它，我们正在建造它。但如你所知，五百万美元维持不了多久。所以每个月，每个月我们的资金都在消耗。你必须制造它，打造原型；你必须设计它，制作原型；然后你要拿到硅片，花费很多钱；用软件测试它，因为没有软件测试，你不知道芯片是否工作正常。然后你可能会发现一个错误，因为每次测试都会发现问题。这意味着你不得不再次进行流片，这需要更多的时间和资金。

And so we did the math there was no chance in video was going to survive it We didn't have that much time to tape out a chip Send it to a foundry TSMC Get the silicon back test it send it back out again. There was no no shot no hope And so The math the spreadsheet doesn't allow us to do that and so I heard about this company and this company built this machine And this machine is an emulator. You could take your design All of the software that describes the chip And you could put it into this machine and this machine will pretend It's our chip So I don't have to send it to the fab Wait until the fab sends it back test I could have this machine pretend it's our chip And I could put all of the software on top of this machine called an emulator And test all of the software on this pretend chip And I could fix it all Before I send it to the fab And if and if I could do that When I send it to the fab it should work Nobody knows but it should work.

我们算了一下，这种视频注定无法存活。我们没有足够的时间来设计芯片，把它送到代工厂（比如台积电），再拿回硅片进行测试，然后再发回去。完全没有机会，也没有希望。于是，我了解到有这样一家公司，他们制造了一台机器。这台机器是个模拟器，你可以把你的设计和所有描述芯片的软件放进这台机器中，这台机器就会假装成我们的芯片。这样，我就不需要将它送到工厂，也不用等工厂发回来测试。我可以用这台机器假装是我们的芯片，并在这台叫做模拟器的机器上运行所有的软件，测试所有的软件，这样可以在发给工厂前修正所有问题。如果我能这样做，那么当我把它送到工厂时，它应该能正常工作。虽然没人能确定，但它应该会行。

And so we came to the conclusion That let's take half of the money we had left in the bank At the time it was about a million dollars Take half of that money and go buy this machine So instead of keeping the money to stay alive I took half of the money to go buy this machine while I call the sky up This kind the company's called icos I called this company up and I said hey listen I heard about this machine I like to buy one And they go oh That's terrific but we're out of business I said what you're out of business He goes yeah we have no customers And I said wait hang on so you never made the machine They guess it no no we made the machine We have one in inventory if you want but we're out of business So I bought one out of inventory Okay After I bought it they went out of business wow.

于是我们得出了结论，那就是从银行里剩下的钱中拿出一半来。当时我们账户里大概还有一百万美元，所以拿出一半的钱去买这台机器。虽然本可以用这些钱来维持公司的生存，但我还是决定拿出一半的钱去买这台机器。我联系了一家名叫icos的公司，听说他们有我想要的机器。我打电话给他们时，他们说机不错，但公司已经停业了。我惊讶地问："你们停业了？"他们回答说："是的，我们没有客户。"我又问："等等，你们从来没生产过机器吗？"他们解释说："不不，我们生产过这台机器，现在还有一台库存。如果你想要，可以买下，但我们确实已经停业了。"于是，我从库存中买走了那台机器。买完后，公司就倒闭了。真是让人感慨。

I bought it out of inventory And on this machine We put Nvidia's chip into it And we tested all of the software on top And at this point we were on fumes But we convinced ourselves that chip is going to be great And so I had to call some other gentleman So I called TSMC And I told TSMC That listen TSMC is the world's largest founder today At the time There was just a few hundred million dollars large Tiny low company And I explained to them what we were doing And um I explained them I told them I had a lot of customers I had one you know diamond multimedia Probably one of the companies you bought the graphics card from back in the old days And I I said you know we have a lot of customers and demands really great And We're going to tape out a chip to you And I like to go directly to production Because I know it works.

我从库存中购买了这台设备，然后我们在这台设备上安装了Nvidia的芯片，并测试了所有相关软件。当时我们几乎山穷水尽，但我们说服自己这个芯片会非常棒。因此，我必须联系其他方面的人，所以我给台积电打了电话。我告诉台积电，听着，台积电是当今全球最大的晶圆制造厂。那时，台积电还只是一个价值几亿美元的小公司。我向他们解释了我们正在做的事情，并告诉他们我有很多客户，例如Diamond Multimedia，可能是你过去购买显卡的公司之一。我说，我们有很多客户，需求非常大。我们准备把芯片交给你们制造，并且我想直接投入生产，因为我知道这个芯片可以正常工作。

And And they said nobody has ever done that before Nobody has ever taped out a chip that worked the first time And nobody starts out production without looking at it But I knew that if I didn't start to production I'd be out of business anyways And if I could start to production I might have a chance And so TSMC decided to support me And uh this gentleman is named Morse Chang Morse Chang is the father of the foundry industry The founder of TSMC really great man He decided to support our company I explained to them everything He decided to support us Frankly probably because They didn't have that many other customers anyhow But they were grateful And I was immensely grateful.

他们说以前从来没有人做到过这样的事情：从没人在第一次试制芯片时就成功，也从没人在没检查的情况下就投入生产。但我知道，如果我不开始生产，我公司迟早会破产，而如果我敢于开始生产，也许还有一线希望。于是台积电（TSMC）决定支持我。这个绅士名叫张忠谋，他是代工行业之父，台积电的创办人，一位非常伟大的人物。他决定支持我们的公司。我向他们详细解释了情况，他决定支持我们。坦率地讲，这可能是因为他们没有太多其他的客户，但他们表示感谢，而我也心存感激。

And as we were starting the production Morse flew to United States and uh He didn't so many words Asked me so but he asked me a whole lot of questions that was trying to tease out Do I have any money But he didn't directly ask me that You know and so the truth is that We didn't have all the money But we had a strong PO from the customer And If it didn't work Some way first would have been lost and um You know, I I'm not exactly sure what would have happened But we were to come short It would have been it would have been rough But they supported us With all of that risk involved We launched this chip Turns out to have Been completely revolutionary Knocked the ball out of the park We became the fastest Growing technology company in history To go from zero to one billion dollars.

当我们开始生产时，摩尔斯飞到了美国，他没有直接问我太多问题，但通过一连串的问题试图套出我有没有资金。实际上，我们并没有全部资金，但我们有客户的一份强有力的采购订单。如果项目不成功，首先我们会有一些损失。我不太确定会发生什么，但如果我们资金不足，情况会很艰难。不过，他们在风险如此高的情况下依然支持我们。我们推出的芯片最终成为了完全的创新，获得了巨大的成功。我们成为历史上增长最快的科技公司，从零成长到十亿美元。

So wild that you didn't test the chip I know well I didn't test it afterwards Yeah, we tested that afterwards What in the production? But by the way by the way That methodology that we developed to save the company Is used throughout the world today That's amazing Yeah, we changed we changed the whole world's methodology of designing chips The whole world's rhythm of designing chips We changed everything How well did you sleep those days It must have been so much stress You know what um What is that feeling where where uh The world Just kind of feels like it's flying It you have this What do you call that feeling? You can't you can't stop the feeling that everything's moving super fast And you know and you're laying in your Laying in bed and the world just feels like you know And you you feel deeply anxious Completely out of control I've felt that probably a couple of times in my life It's during that time Wow, yeah, it was incredible.

太不可思议了，你竟然没有测试过那个芯片。我知道，我之后也没有测试过。是啊，我们后来在生产中测试过。不过顺便说一下，顺便提一句，我们开发的那个让公司起死回生的方法论，如今被全世界使用。这真了不起。是的，我们改变了整个世界的芯片设计方法。整个世界芯片设计的节奏都被我们改变了。我们改变了一切。那些日子你睡得好吗？肯定承受了很多压力。你知道吗？那种感觉是什么？当世界就像在飞，你有这种......你怎么形容那种感觉？你无法阻止这种感觉，觉得一切都在极速前进。你知道的，当你躺在床上，感觉整个世界就像在......而你感到深深的不安，完全失去了控制。我的一生也就经历过几次这样的感觉，就是在那段时间。哇，是的，那段经历真是令人难以忘怀。

What an incredible success But I learned I learned a lot I learned I learned about I learned several things I learned I learned how to develop strategies Um, I learned how to Uh, uh, and when I want to you know our company learned how to develop strategies What are winning strategies? We learned how to create a market we created the modern 3D gaming market We learned how and and so that exact same skill is how we created the modern AI market Is exactly the same Yeah, it's exactly the same skill exactly the same blueprint And We learned how to uh deal with crisis How to stay calm How to think through things systematically We learned how to Remove all waste in the company and work from first principles and doing only the things that are essential Everything else is waste because we have no money for it To live on fumes at all times and the feeling No different than the feeling I had this morning when I woke up that You're going to be out of business and that you're you know the phrase 30 days from going out of business. I've used For 33 years because you still feel oh yeah.

多么令人难以置信的成功！但我学到了很多东西。我学习了如何制定策略，学习了什么是成功的策略。我们公司的确掌握了如何制定策略。我们学会了如何创造市场，我们创建了现代3D游戏市场。我们还学会了如何以同样的技能和方法创建现代AI市场。真的就是完全相同的技能和蓝图。我们还学会了如何应对危机，如何保持冷静，如何系统地思考问题。我们学会了如何清除公司中的所有浪费，从基本原则出发，只做那些必要的事情，因为我们没有多余的资金来浪费。始终在资源非常有限的情况下生存，而这种感觉和我今天早上醒来的感觉没有什么不同。你总是感到自己离破产只有30天。我用这个说法已经用了33年，因为这种感觉依然存在。

Oh yeah every morning every morning But but you guys are one of the biggest companies on planet earth But the feeling doesn't change wow the sense of vulnerability the sense of uncertainty the sense of insecurity It doesn't leave you that's crazy. We were you know we had nothing We had nothing we were dealing with giant. Oh yeah. Oh yeah every day Every moment. Do you think that fuels you? Is that part of the reason why the company so successful that you have that Hungry mentality That you never rest you're never sitting on your laurels you're always on the edge I have a greater drive from not wanting To fail Then the drive of wanting to succeed Is that like I think I coaches to tell you that's Joe the world has just heard me say that for out loud for first time But but it's true.

哦，是的，每天早上每天早上，但你们是地球上最大的公司之一。然而，这种感觉没有改变，脆弱感、不确定感和不安全感都没有离开你们，这太疯狂了。我们一开始什么都没有，面对的是巨头公司。哦，是的，每一天、每一刻。你觉得这促使你们不断进步吗？这是不是公司如此成功的部分原因，因为你们始终保持着那种渴望，不会止步不前、不会自满，总是处于紧张状态。我更害怕失败，这种驱动力比成功的渴望更大。我想教练会告诉你这是乔，我是第一次在公众场合说出这点，但这确实是真的。

Well, this how fast fear of failure drives me more than the The greed or whatever it is ultimately that's probably a more healthy approach Nothing I'm thinking about it Because like the fear not ambitious for example, you know, I just want to stay alive Joe I want the company to thrive, you know, I want us to make an impact. That's interesting. Yeah. Well, maybe that's why you're so humble So maybe that's what keeps you grounded, you know, because with the kind of spectacular success the companies achieved do it be easy to get a big head No, right, but isn't that interesting? It's like though If you were the guy that your main focus is just success You probably would go well made it nailed it in the man It's dead you wake up you're like, I can't fuck this up. No exact every morning Every morning, not every moment Yeah, that's good. Before I go to bed.

好吧，这就是为什么对失败的恐惧比贪婪更能驱动我的原因，或者说不管是什么，总之这可能是一个更健康的态度。我仔细想了想，因为恐惧并不是一种雄心，比如，你知道，我只是想活下去，Joe。我希望公司能够繁荣发展，我希望我们能够产生影响。这很有趣。是的，也许这就是为什么你如此谦逊，也许这就是让你保持脚踏实地的原因。因为公司取得了巨大的成功，很容易就会自满。不是吗？但这很有趣，对吧？如果你是那种专注于成功的人，可能会说，做到了，搞定了，我就是那个成功的人。但实际上，你每天醒来都会想，我不能搞砸了。是的，确实如此，每天早上都是如此，不是每时每刻，但这也不错。我会这样直到睡觉前。

Well, listen if I was a major investor in your company That's why I'd want running it. I want a guy who's like, that's why I work I have yeah That's what I work. That's why I work seven days a week every moment. I'm awake You work every moment every moment. I'm awake. Wow. I'm thinking about solving a problem. I'm thinking about How can you keep this up? I don't know, but Could be next week It is exhausted sounds completely exhausting always in a state of anxiety Wow, yeah, always in a state of anxiety. Well kudos to you for admitting that I think that's important for a lot of people to hear because you know There's probably some young people out there That are in a similar position To where you were when you were starting out that just feel like All those people that have made it they're just smarter than me and they had more opportunities than me And it's just like it was handed to them or they're just in the right place the right time and it's joe I just described to you somebody who didn't know what was going on Actually did it wrong.

好的，听我说，如果我是你公司的大投资者，我希望由这样的人来管理公司：他为了工作不懈努力，每周工作七天，每时每刻都在投入；他醒着的每一刻都在思考如何解决问题。我会问他：“你能这样坚持下去吗？” 他可能会回答：“我不知道，也许下周就不行了。” 这样的工作状态实在是让人感到疲惫，甚至可能一直处于焦虑状态。哇，是啊，总在焦虑中生活。对你来说，敢于承认这一点很了不起，我觉得很多人需要听到这样的声音。因为可能有些年轻人在起步阶段和你当时情况类似，他们觉得那些成功的人只是比自己聪明，或是拥有更多的机会，仿佛一切都是唾手可得或者他们只是恰好出现在了正确的时机和位置。我刚才描述的人其实对事情也并不很清楚，甚至可能一开始做错了。

Yeah, yeah, and the ultimate diving catch like two or three times crazy Yeah, the ultimate diving catch is the perfect way to put it You know, it's just like the edge of your glove It probably bounced off of somebody's helmet and land it God, that's incredible. It's incredible, but it's also it's really cool that you have this perspective that you look at it that way Because you know a lot of people that have delusions for grandeur or they have you know And they're inflated and they're rewriting of history Oftentimes had them somehow Extra learn Extra narrowly smart and they were geniuses and they knew all along and they were they were spot on the business plan was exactly what they thought They destroyed the competition and you know and they emerged victorious Meanwhile you're like I'm scared every day It's so funny.

是的，是的，那几次令人疯狂的终极飞身接球，真是完美的描述。你知道的，就像用手套的边缘接球，那球可能还从其他人的头盔上弹了一下然后刚好落下来。天哪，太不可思议了。这确实不可思议，但同样酷的是，你能够用这样的视角来看待这件事。因为你知道，很多有妄想症的人，总是高估自己，或者歪曲历史，觉得自己无比聪明，早就知道一切，商业计划也完全按他们想的来，他们打败了竞争对手，成为了最终的胜利者。而你呢，却每天都觉得害怕，真是有趣。

Oh my god, that's amazing. It's so true though. It's amazing. It's so true. It's amazing Well, but I I think there's nothing inconsistent With being a leader and being vulnerable You know, I The company doesn't need me to be a genius Right all along right all the time Absolutely certain about what I'm trying to do and what I'm doing the the company doesn't need that The company wants me to succeed You know the thing that and what we started out today Talking about President Trump and I was about to say something and Listen he is my president. He is our president We should all and we're talking about just because it's president Trump. We all want him to be wrong I think the United States we all have to realize he is our president We want him to succeed because no matter who's president that's right.

哦天啊，那太惊人了。确实如此。太惊人了。确实如此。太惊人了。不过，我认为作为一个领导者和表现出脆弱并不矛盾。公司并不需要我一直是个天才，不需要我对自己正在做的事情始终绝对确定。公司希望我能够成功。我们今天开始时在谈论特朗普总统，我本来想说的是，他是我的总统，也是我们的总统。无论是谁当总统，我们都希望他成功，因为不管是谁担任总统，都是如此。

Yeah, that's right We want him to succeed. We need to help him succeed because it helps everybody all of us succeed and I'm lucky that I work in a company where I've 40,000 people who wants me to succeed They want me to succeed and I can tell and they're all every single day to help me overcome these challenges trying to realize Realize what I described to be our strategy doing their best and if it's somehow wrong or not perfectly right To tell me so that we could pivot And the more vulnerable we are as a leader the more able other people are able to tell you You know that chance and that's not exactly right or right right have you considered this information or and the more vulnerable we are The more able we're actually able to pivot if we put ourselves into this superhuman capability Then it's hard for us to pivot strategy Because we were supposed to be right all along.

是的，没错。我们希望他成功。我们需要帮助他成功，因为这有助于所有人的成功。我很幸运能在一家有4万名员工的公司工作，他们都希望我成功。我可以感受到，他们每天都在帮助我克服挑战，努力实现我们制定的战略。如果有哪里做得不对或者不完全正确，他们会告诉我，以便我们能够改变方向。作为领导者，我们越能够展现脆弱的一面，别人就越容易指出问题，比如说：“这个想法不太对，或者不完全正确，你有没有考虑过这些信息？”我们越能展现脆弱，转变战略就越容易。如果我们总是把自己看作是无所不能的，那么改变战略就会很困难，因为我们理应一直是对的。

And so if you're always right how can you possibly pivot because pivoting requires you to be wrong And so I've got no trouble with being wrong I just have to make sure that I stay alert That I reason about things from first principles all the time Always break things down to first principles understand why it's happening reassess continuously The reassessing continuously is kind of partly what causes continuous anxiety You know because you're asking yourself were you wrong yesterday? Are you still right? Is this the same? Has that changed? Has that condition? Is that worse than you thought?

如果你总是认为自己是对的，那你就无法转变方向，因为转变方向需要你承认自己错了。所以我不介意犯错，只需要确保自己时刻保持警惕。我总是从基本原则出发去推理，把事情分解到最基本的层面，理解为什么会发生，并持续重新评估。而持续的重新评估则会带来一定程度的焦虑。你会不停地问自己：昨天我错了吗？现在我还是对的吗？情况一样吗？有什么变化吗？那种情况比你想的更糟吗？

Because that mindset is perfect for your business though. Because this business is ever changing all the time and there's competition coming from every direction. So much of it is kind of up in the air. And you have to invent a future where 100 variables are included. And there's no way you could be right on all of them. And so you have to be you have to surf. Wow that's a good way to put it. You have to surf. Yeah, you're surfing waves of technology and innovation. That's right. You can't predict the waves. You got to deal with it once you have. Wow. And but skill matters. And oh, I've been doing this for 30. I'm the longest running tech CEO in the world. Is that true? Congratulations. That's amazing.

因为这种心态非常适合你的生意。因为这个行业始终在变化，而且竞争来自四面八方，有很多事情都处于不确定状态。你必须创造一个包含上百个变量的未来，而你不可能在所有方面都完全正确。所以你得学会“冲浪”。哇，这个比喻不错。你得学会“冲浪”，对，你在“冲浪”科技和创新的浪潮。没错。你不能预测浪潮，但你得在浪潮来临时应对。哇。不过，技巧很重要哦。我已经做了这个行业30年了。我是全球做这个行业时间最长的科技公司CEO。真的吗？恭喜你，太了不起了。

And you know people ask me how is one don't get fired. They'll stop assured the heartbeat. And then two don't get bored. Yeah, well how do you maintain your enthusiasm? The honor of truth is it's not always enthusiasm. Sometimes it's enthusiasm. Sometimes it's just good old fashioned fear. And then sometimes, you know, a healthy dose of frustration. You know, it's whatever keeps you moving. Yeah, just all the emotions. I think you know CEOs we have all the emotions right, you know? And so probably I'm jacked up to the maximum because you're you're kind of feeling it on behalf of the whole company. I'm feeling it on behalf of everybody at the same time. And it kind of, you know, encapsulates into somebody.

翻译成中文：你知道，人们常常问我，怎么才能不被解雇。首先，要保持心跳稳定。然后，不要感到无聊。那么，如何保持热情呢？说实话，这并不总是因为热情。有时候是靠热情支撑，有时候只是因为一种传统的恐惧感。而有时候呢，是因为一点健康的挫折感。不管是什么情绪，只要能让你继续前进就行。所有的情绪都可能起作用。我觉得，作为CEO，我们会经历所有的情绪，对吧？所以，我可能处于情绪的最高点，因为我是在为整个公司感受这些。我是为每一个人同时而感觉，而这些最终都汇集到某个人身上。

And so I have to be mindful of the past. I have to be mindful of the present. I've got to be mindful of the future. And um, you know it can't, it's not without emotion. It's not just, it's not just a job. Let's just put it that way. Hmm it doesn't seem like it at all. I would imagine one of the more difficult aspects of your job currently now that the company is massively successful is anticipating where technology is headed and where the applications are going to be. Yeah so how do you try to map that out? Yeah they're um, there's a whole bunch of ways. And and it takes, it takes um, takes a whole bunch of things but let me just start.

因此，我必须关注过去，也必须关注现在，还得顾及未来。要知道，这其中不仅仅有理性，还有情感。这不仅仅是一份工作，我们就这么说吧。嗯，看起来的确是这样。我想，在公司取得巨大成功后，你工作中最困难的部分之一就是预测技术的发展方向以及应用的走向。那么，你是如何规划这些的呢？有很多种方法，这需要结合很多因素，但让我先从头开始讲起。

Uh, you have to be surrounded by amazing people. And Nvidia is now, you know, if you look at look at um, the large tech companies in the world today most of them have a business in advertising or social media or you know content distribution. And at the core of it is really fundamental computer science. And so the company's business is not computers. The company's business is not technology. Technology drives the company. Nvidia is the only company in the world that's large who's only businesses technology. We only build technology we don't advertise. The only way that we make money is to create amazing technology and sell it.

你必须被优秀的人包围。而现在如果你看当今世界上的大型科技公司，其中大多数都涉及广告、社交媒体或内容分发业务。而这一切的核心其实是基础的计算机科学。因此，这些公司的业务并不是真正意义上的计算机或技术，技术只是推动它们发展的动力。而Nvidia是世界上唯一一家大型公司，其唯一的业务就是技术。我们只专注于技术的研发，不做广告。我们赚钱的唯一方式就是创造出色的技术并销售它。

And so to beat that, to be Nvidia today you're the number one things you're surrounded by the finest computer scientists in the world. And that's my gift. My gift is that we've created a company culture, a condition by which the world's greatest computer scientists want to be part of it. Because they get to do their life's work and create the next thing. Because that's what they want to do. Because maybe they're not, they don't want to be in service of another business. They want to be in service of the technology itself. And we're the largest form of its kind in history of the world. Wow, I know, it's pretty amazing.

要打败这个对手，要成为今天的英伟达，你需要的是周围有全世界最优秀的计算机科学家。这是我的一个优势。我们的优势在于我们创造了一种公司文化和环境，让全世界最出色的计算机科学家都想加入我们。因为在这里，他们可以实现自己的事业梦想，创造下一个大事物。因为这正是他们想做的事。他们可能并不想为其他业务服务，而是想为技术本身服务。我们是历史上这种类型中规模最大的公司。哇，我知道，这很令人惊叹。

Wow. And so so one, you know we have a great condition, we have a great culture, we have great people. And now, now, now the question is how do you systematically um, be able to see the future, stay alert of it, and reduce the likelihood of messing something or being wrong? And so there's a lot of different ways you could do that. For example, we have great partnerships. We have fundamental research. We have a great research lab, one of the largest industrial research labs in the world today. And we partner with a whole bunch of universities and other scientists. We do a lot of open collaboration. And so I'm constantly working with researchers outside the company.

哇。因此，你知道，我们有很好的条件、很好的文化和很出色的人才。现在问题是，我们如何系统地预测未来，保持警觉，并减少出错的可能性？有很多方法可以实现这个目标。比如说，我们有很好的合作伙伴关系，我们开展基础研究。我们拥有一个很大的研究实验室，这是目前世界上最大的工业研究实验室之一。我们还与许多大学和其他科学家合作。我们进行大量开放的合作，因此我经常与公司外的研究人员合作。

We have the benefit of having amazing customers. And so I've the benefit of working with Elon and you know and others in the industry. And we have the benefit of being the only pure technology company that can serve consumer internet, industrial manufacturing, scientific computing, healthcare, financial services, all the industries that we're in. They're all signals to me and so they all have mathematicians and scientists. And so because I I have the benefit now of a radar system that is the most broad of any company in the world working across every single industry from agriculture to energy to video games. And so the ability for us to have this vantage point, one doing fundamental research ourselves and then two working with all the great researchers, working with all the great industries, the feedback systems incredible.

我们有幸拥有出色的客户。因此，我也有幸能与Elon以及行业内的其他人士合作。同时，我们是唯一一家能够服务于消费者互联网、工业制造、科学计算、医疗保健和金融服务等所有行业的纯技术公司。这对我来说都是信号，所以这些领域都有数学家和科学家参与。现在，我有幸拥有了一个全球视野最广泛的“雷达系统”，涵盖从农业到能源再到电子游戏的每一个行业。这样的视角让我们既能够进行基础研究，又能与所有优秀研究人员和各大行业合作，形成了一个极其出色的反馈系统。

And then finally, usually I have to have a culture of staying super alert. There's no easy way of being alert except for paying attention. I haven't found a single way of being able to stay alert without paying attention. And so you know, I probably read several thousand emails a day. How do you have the time for that? Now wake up early this morning. I was up at four o'clock. How much do you sleep? Uh, six seven seven hours. Yeah. And then you're up at four reading emails for a few hours. Yeah, where you could go on that's right. Yeah, wow. Every day every single day not one day missed, including Thanksgiving Christmas. Do you ever take a vacation? Uh, yeah, but they're um my definition of a vacation is when I'm with my family and so if I'm with my family, I'm very happy I don't care where we are. And you don't work then or you were in a little? No, no, I work a lot. Even if you like if you go on a trip somewhere. Oh, she's still working. Oh, sure. Oh sure.

然后，最后，我通常必须保持一种高度警觉的文化。要保持警觉没有捷径，唯一的方法就是专心。我没有发现不专注就能保持警觉的方法。所以你知道，我可能每天要读几千封电子邮件。你是怎么有时间做到的？今天一大早起来，我四点钟就起床了。你每天睡多久？嗯，六到七个小时。是啊，然后你四点钟起床，花几个小时读邮件。对，没错。哇，每天都这样，每一天都不落，包括感恩节和圣诞节。你有没有休假？嗯，有，但我对休假的定义是和家人在一起，所以如果和家人在一起，我就很开心，不在乎我们在哪里。那你不工作还是有一点？不，不，我工作很多。即使你去旅行了？哦，我还是会工作。哦，是的。

Wow every day, every day. Well, my kids work every day. You make me tired just saying this. My kids work every day. Both of my kids work in a video they work every day. Wow. Yeah, I'm very lucky. Wow, yeah, it's brutal now because you know, it's just me working every day. Now we have three people working every day and they want to work with me every day and so it's it's a lot of work. Well, you've obviously imparted that ethic into them. They work incredibly hard. I mean, it's not believable. But my parents worked incredibly hard. Yeah, I was I was born with the work gene. The suffering gene. Well, listen man, it has paid off what a crazy story. I mean, it's just it's really an amazing origin story.

哇，每天都这样，每天都这样。唉，我的孩子们每天都工作。光是说出来就让我觉得累。我两个孩子每天都在一个视频里工作。哇，是的，我很幸运。哇，现在真的不容易，因为现在就我一个人每天工作。现在我们有三个人每天都在工作，他们每天都想和我一起工作，所以工作量很大。嗯，你显然把这种工作精神传给了他们。他们工作非常努力，我简直不敢相信。不过，我的父母也非常努力工作。是的，我生来就有工作基因，还有受苦基因。嗯，听着，兄弟，这一切都得到了回报，这是个疯狂的故事，我是说，这真是一个惊人的起源故事。

It really, I mean, it has to be kind of surreal to be in the position that you're in now when you look back at how many times that it could have fallen apart and humble beginnings. But Joe, this is great. It's a great country. And I'm an immigrant. My parents sent my older brother and I here first. We're in Thailand. I was born in Taiwan, but my dad had a job in Thailand. He was a chemical and instrumentation engineer, incredible engineer. And his job was to go start an oil refinery and so we moved to Thailand, lived in Bangkok and um in 19 I guess 1973, 1974 time frame. You know how Thailand every so often they would just have a coup? You know the military would have an uprising. And all of a sudden one day there were tanks and soldiers in the streets and my parents thought, you know probably isn't safe for the kids to be here.

这确实，怎么说呢，当你回顾过去，想想有多少次事情可能会分崩离析，以及从那卑微的开始，到你今天所处的位置，这种感觉应该有点超现实。但是，乔，这很棒。这是一个伟大的国家。我是一个移民。我的父母先把我和哥哥送到这里。我们当时在泰国，我出生在台湾，但我爸爸在泰国有工作。他是一名化学和仪器工程师，非常优秀的工程师。他的工作是去启动一个炼油厂，所以我们搬到了泰国，住在曼谷。我想大概是1973或1974年。你知道的，泰国时不时会发生政变，军队会突然起义。突然有一天，街上出现了坦克和士兵，我的父母就想，孩子们留在这里可能不太安全。

And so they contacted my uncle. My uncle lives in Tacoma, Washington and um we had never met him and my parents sent us to him. How old were you? Uh, I was about to turn nine and my older brother almost turned 11 and so the two of us came to United States and we stayed with our uncle for a little bit while he looked for a school for us. And my parents didn't have very much money and they never had been to United States. My father was I'll tell you that story in a second and um and so my uncle found a school that would accept foreign students and affordable enough for my parents. And that school turned out to have been in O'Neighda, Kentucky.

于是他们联系了我的舅舅。我舅舅住在华盛顿州的塔科马，我们以前从未见过他。我的父母把我们送到了舅舅那里。你那时多大？嗯，我快九岁了，我哥哥快十一岁了。于是我们兄弟俩来到美国，暂时住在舅舅家，他帮我们找学校。我的父母当时没什么钱，也从没来过美国。我等会儿再讲我爸爸的故事。我舅舅找到了一所学校，既接收外国学生、费用又在父母能负担的范围内。那所学校就在肯塔基州的奥尼达。

Clark County, Kentucky the epicenter of the opio crisis today. Clark County, Kentucky is was the poorest county in America when I showed up. It is the poorest county in America today. And so we went to the school. It's a great school um O'Neighda Baptist Institute in a town of a few hundred. I think was 600 at the time that we showed up, no traffic light and um I think it was 600. Today, it's kind of amazing feat actually. The ability to hold your population for what it 600 people is quite a magical thing however they did it. And so uh the school had a mission of being an open school for any children who'd like to come.

肯塔基州的克拉克县今天是鸦片药物危机的重灾区。当我来到这里时，克拉克县是美国最贫穷的县，而今天它依然如此。于是我们去了当地的一所学校，这是一所很好的学校，名叫欧奈达浸信会学院，位于一个只有几百人的小镇。当我们抵达时，镇上大约有600名居民，没有交通信号灯。令人惊讶的是，时至今日，他们仍然保持着这样的人口数目，对于一个仅有600人口的地方来说，能做到这一点相当了不起。不管他们是怎么做到的。这所学校的宗旨是对任何想要就读的孩子开放。

And what that basically means is that if you're a trouble student, if you have a trouble family, um if you're you know, whatever your background you're welcome to come to O'Neighda Baptist Institute including kids from international who would like to stay there. Did you speak English at the time? Uh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so we showed up and uh my first my first thought was gosh there are a lot of cigarette butts on the ground. 100% of the kid smoked. So right away you know this is not a normal school. Nine year olds? No, I was the youngest kid. Okay. 11 year olds. My roommate was 17 years old.

这段话大致的意思是：如果你是一个有问题的学生，或者你的家庭有困难，或者无论你的背景如何，O'Neighda Baptist Institute（欧奈达浸会学院）都欢迎你，包括那些希望留在那里学习的国际学生。你那时候会说英语吗？嗯，好吧。对，对，好。于是我们去了那里，我的第一个想法是，天哪，地上怎么有这么多烟头。百分之百的学生都在抽烟。所以你马上就知道这不是一所普通学校。九岁？哦，我是最小的学生。好吧，十一岁。我室友是17岁。

Wow, yeah, you just turned 17 and he was jacked and um I don't know where he is now. I know his name, but I don't know where he is now. But anyways uh that night we got and and the second thing I noticed when you walk into the into your dorm room is uh there are no drawers and no closet doors. Just like a prison and there's no locks so that people could check check up on you. And so I go into my room and he's 17 and uh, uh, you know get ready for for bed any of the oldest tape all over his body and uh turned out he was in a knife fight and he's been stabbed all over his body and these were just fresh ones. And the other kids were hurt much worse. And uh, so he was my roommate the toughest kid in school and I was the youngest kid in school. It was a It was a junior high. But they took me anyways because If I walked about a mile across the Kentucky River the swing bridge The other side Is a middle school that I could go to and then I can cut go to that school and I come back.

哇，是的，你刚刚满17岁，他非常健壮，我现在不知道他在哪里。我只知道他的名字，但不知道他的现状。不管怎样，那天晚上发生了一些事情。当你走进你的宿舍时，我注意到的第二件事就是没有抽屉和衣柜门，感觉就像在监狱里，并且没有锁以便其他人可以随时查看。所以我走进我的房间，他那时17岁，准备睡觉时我看到他身上都缠满了胶带，结果发现他之前参与了一场持刀斗殴，身上到处是新受的伤，而其他孩子受伤更重。因此，他成了我的室友，学校最厉害的孩子，而我是学校最年轻的学生。这是一所初中，但他们还是收了我，因为只要我走一英里的路过肯塔基河上的索桥，另一边就是我可以去的中学，然后我只需往返于这两所学校。

And then I stayed in the dorm and so basically only debaptist institute was my dorm When I went to this other other school My older brother went to uh went to the junior high. And so we were there for a couple of years um. Every kid had every kid had chores My older brother's chore was to work in the tobacco farm. You know, so tobacco they raised tobacco so that they could raise some extra money for the school Kind of like a penitentiary. And my job was just to clean the dorm and so I I was nine years old. I was cleaning toilets and For a dorm of a hundred hundred boys uh I cleaned more bathrooms than anybody and I just wished everybody was a little bit more careful. But anyways, I was the youngest kid in school. Then my memories of it was really good. Um, but it was a pretty it was a tough town. Sounds like yeah town kids they all carried everybody had knives. Oh, everybody had knives. Everybody smoked. Everybody had a zippo lighter. I smoked for a week.

然后我住在宿舍，所以基本上唯一的浸信会机构就是我的宿舍。当我转到另一所学校的时候，我哥哥去上了初中。于是我们在那里待了几年。每个孩子都有自己的家务活，我哥哥的任务是在烟草农场工作。他们通过种植烟草为学校筹集一些额外的资金，有点像感化院。而我的工作就是打扫宿舍。当时我九岁，要给住着一百个男孩的宿舍打扫卫生。我打扫了无数的卫生间，只希望大家能更注意一些。不过，我是学校里最小的孩子。我对那段时间的记忆很好，不过那是个挺有挑战性的地方。听起来镇上的孩子个个都带着刀，人人抽烟，也都有一个Zippo打火机。我也抽了一个星期的烟。

Did you oh yeah, sure cold of you. I was nine. Yeah, well you nine you're nine you tried smoking. Yeah, I got myself a packet cigarettes everybody else did. Did you get sick? No, I got used to it, you know and at learn how to blow blow uh smoke rings and you know You know You know breathe out in my nose, you know take it in my nose. I mean there was a call all the different things that you learned. Yeah at nine. Yeah, why you just did it to fit in or yeah, because everybody else did it right yeah. And then I have I did it for a couple of weeks. I guess and I just rather have I had a quarter. You know at a quarter a month or something like that. I Just rather buy popsicles and Fragicicles with it. I was nine, you know, I said right. I chose I chose the the better path. Wow. That was our school and then my parents came to United States two years later and um We met him in Tacoma, Washington.

当然，我来翻译并简化一下这段话： "哦，是的，当然，你真冷静。我九岁的时候，对，那时我九岁，尝试抽烟。对，我自己买了包香烟，别人都在抽。你有没有感到不舒服？没有，我习惯了，而且学会了吐烟圈，还学会了用鼻子呼出烟雾，或从鼻子吸进去。不同时期你能学到不同的东西。是的，在九岁时。你是为了合群还是因为别人都在抽？是的，因为其他人都在抽。然后我抽了几个星期。我发现自己每月有25美分，还不如用来买冰棍和冰糕。我那时才九岁，我想，我选择了更好的路。哇，那是我们学校的事，然后我父母两年后移居美国，我们在华盛顿州塔科马见了面。"

That's wild. It was a really crazy experience. What a strange formative experience. Yeah tough kids Thailand To one of the poorest places in America where if not the poorest As a nine-year-old Yeah, it's my first experience. Yeah with your brother. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, no, I used to remember and what breaks my heart probably the only thing that really breaks my heart of About that experience was so We didn't have enough money to make you know international phone calls every week. And so my parents gave us this tape deck This iwa tape deck and a tape. And so every month we would sit in front of that tape deck and that my older brother Jeff and I The two of us would just tell them what we did the whole month Wow. And we would send that tape by mail and my parents would take that tape And record back on top of it and send it back to us.

这真是太疯狂了。这是一次非常不寻常的经历。多么奇怪且具有深远影响的成长经历啊。是的，作为一个九岁的孩子，和我哥哥一起，从泰国那些坚强的孩子们，来到美国最贫穷的地方之一，甚至可能是最穷的地方。这是我第一次的经历。哇，真是难以忘怀。我记得，那段经历中唯一让我心痛的事情就是，我们没有足够的钱每周打国际长途。所以，我的父母给了我们一个录音机，这个爱华录音机和一个录音带。每个月，我和哥哥Jeff会坐在录音机前，告诉父母我们这一个月都做了些什么。然后我们会把录音寄回给父母，父母会在上面重新录音，再寄回给我们。

Wow, could you imagine it for two years? Wow, it's that tape still existed Of these two kids just describing their first experience with United States. Like I remember telling my parents That that uh i joined the swim team and Uh My roommate was really buff and so every day we spent a lot of time in the in the gym and so uh Every night hundred push ups hundred sit ups every day in the gym. So I was nine years old. I was getting I was pretty buff And I'm pretty fit and uh And so I joined the soccer team I joined the swim team because If you join the team they take you to meet and then afterwards you get to go to a nice restaurant. And that nice restaurant was McDonald's. And I recorded this thing. I said mom and dad we went to the most amazing restaurant today This whole place is lit up. It's like the future.

哇，你能想象两年后的情景吗？哇，那段录音竟然还存在，是两个孩子描述他们初次体验美国的。这让我想起我告诉我父母，我加入了游泳队，还有我的室友非常强壮，所以我们每天都花很多时间在健身房。每晚都要做一百个俯卧撑和仰卧起坐。我当时才九岁，但渐渐也锻炼得很壮实和健康。然后我还加入了足球队和游泳队，因为如果你加入球队，他们会带你去参加比赛，结束后还能去一家很好的餐厅。而那家餐厅就是麦当劳。我用录音记录下这一切，我跟爸妈说，我们今天去了最棒的餐厅，整个地方都灯火通明，感觉就像未来世界一样。

And the food comes in a box And the food is incredible the hamburger is incredible. It's McDonald's. But anyhow it wouldn't be amazing. Oh my god two years recording. Yeah two years. Yeah What a crazy connection to your parents too just sending a tape and then sending you in back. And it's the only way of communicating for two years. Yeah Wow. Yeah, no, my parents are incredible actually there's just they're They grew up really poor and When they came to United States they had almost no money. One of the most Impactful memories I have is is uh, we they came and we were we were staying in a in a apartment complex And And they had they had just rent back in the I guess people still do rent rent a bunch of furniture And We were messing around And uh We bumped into the coffee table and crushed it It was made out of particle wood and we crushed it And I just Still remember the logo my mom's face you know because they didn't have any money and she didn't know how she was gonna pay it back.

食物放在一个盒子里，这食物非常美味，尤其是汉堡，味道绝佳。是麦当劳。不过，即使是这样，也不会觉得惊讶。哦天哪，两年录音。是的，两年。何等神奇的亲情联结，只是通过寄录音带互通消息。而且这是两年来唯一的沟通方式。是啊，哇。我的父母真的很了不起，他们都是在很贫穷的环境中长大的。来美国的时候，几乎身无分文。我印象最深刻的记忆之一是，我们刚到的时候住在一个公寓里。他们租了一些家具，不知道现在人们是不是还这样做。然后我们在玩耍中撞到了咖啡桌，把它撞坏了。因为那咖啡桌是由刨花板做的，所以一下子就摔坏了。我至今仍然记得我妈妈脸上的表情，因为他们当时没有钱，她不知道该如何偿还。

And but anyhow that's that kind of tells you How hard it was for them to come here, but they they left everything behind and all they had was their suitcase and The money had to add in your and their pocket and they came to United States. How old pursued time? Brink dream. They were in their 40s. Yeah late late 30s Pursue the American dream. This is this is the American dream. I'm the first generation of the American dream Wow Yeah, it's hard not to love this country That's it's hard not to be romantic about this country. That is a romantic story. That's an amazing story Yeah, and my dad found his job literally in the newspaper You know the ads And he calls people got a job What did he do? He was a consulting engineer And a consulting firm and they helped people build Oil refineries paper mills and fabs and that's what he did. He was and he's really good at factory design Instrumentation engineer and so He's brilliant at that and so he did that And my mom worked as a maid and They found a way to raise us Wow That's an incredible story jensen really is everything all of it from your childhood to The perils of in video almost falling It's really incredible man. It's a great story.

这段文字大意是：这说明他们来这里有多不容易。他们抛下一切，只带着行李箱和口袋里的钱来到美国，追求美国梦。当时他们大概四十岁，接近四十岁。我是美国梦第一代。这确实让人很难不爱上这个国家。这是一个浪漫的故事，令人惊叹。我父亲是在报纸上的广告中找到工作的。他当时是一名咨询工程师，帮助别人建造炼油厂、造纸厂和工厂。他在工厂设计和仪表工程方面非常出色。我母亲则做清洁工，他们努力抚养我们。这是一个令人难以置信的故事，从你的童年到英伟达经历的艰险，真是了不起的历程。

Yeah, I've lived a great life You really have and it's a great story for other people to hear too. It really is You don't you don't have to go to iV leaks tools to succeed This country creates opportunities has opportunities for all of us You do have to strive You have to claw your way here Yeah, but if you put in the work you can succeed Nobody works a lot of luck and a lot of A lot of good decision making and the good graces of others. Yeah That's really important.

是的，我过得很精彩。你真的过得很好，你的故事也值得被他人听到。确实如此。你不需要使用其他手段来取得成功。这个国家为我们所有人创造了机会，提供了机遇。你确实需要努力奋斗，推动自己向前。是的，但如果你勤奋努力，你就能取得成功。没有人能单靠运气成功，成功还需要很多良好的决策和他人的帮助。这一点真的很重要。

Yeah, you and I spoke about two two people who are very dear to me Um, but the list goes on The people the people I didn't video who have have helped me Um, many friends that are on the board The decisions, you know them giving the me the opportunity like when we were inventing this new computing approach I tanked our stock price because we added this thing called kuda to the chip We had this big idea. We added this thing called kuda to the chip But nobody paid for it, but our cost doubled And so we had this graphics chip company And we invented GPUs we invented programmable shaders we invented everything modern computer graphics We invented real-time trade ray tracing. That's why it went from GTX to RTX We invented all this stuff, but every time we invented something The market doesn't know how to appreciate it, but the cost went way up.

好的，我和你谈到了对我非常重要的两个人，但实际上帮助过我的人远不止这两位。还有很多朋友一直在背后支持我，比如在董事会中的那些人。他们曾给予我机会和信任，比如当我们发明一种新的计算方法时，我的决策导致公司股价下跌。我们在芯片中添加了一种叫做CUDA的新技术，这是一个重大的想法，但当时并没有人愿意为此买单，而我们的成本却翻倍了。我们原本是一家图形芯片公司，发明了GPU、可编程着色器、现代计算机图形技术，以及实时光线追踪技术。这也是为什么我们的产品从GTX升级到RTX。我们发明了所有这些技术，每次创新市场却没有及时意识到它的价值，但我们的研发成本却明显上升。

And in the case of kuda that enabled AI The cost increased a lot it and but I really we really believed it You know, and so if you believe in that future And you don't do anything about it. You're going to regret it for your life And so we always you know, I always tell the team. Do you believe what do we believe this or not? And if you believe it and so grounded on first principles not random You know here say and we believe it we've got to we owe it to ourselves to go pursue it If we're the right people to go do it if it's really really hard to do it's worth doing and we believe it. Let's go pursue it.

在 kuda 推动 AI 的情况下，成本确实大幅增加，但我们真的相信这一点。如果你相信这样的未来却不采取行动，你会后悔一辈子。我总是告诉团队，我们是否真的相信这一点？如果我们相信，并且这种信念基于基本原则而不是道听途说，那我们就有责任去追求它。如果我们是合适的人选，即使这件事非常难，也是值得去做的。我们相信这点，所以让我们努力去实现它。

Well, we pursued it we we launched the product nobody knew it was exactly what like when I launched djx1 and the entire audience was like Complete silence When I launched kuda the Audience was complete silence no customer wanted it nobody asked for it Nobody understood it and video is a public company what yours is this is a See 2000 and 2006 20 years ago 2005 wow Our stock prices went I think our valuation went down to like Two or three billion dollars from from about 12 or something like that I crushed it In a very bad way Yeah, what is it now though?

好吧，我们推出了产品，但是没人知道那是什么。就像我推出DJX1的时候，整个观众席一片寂静。推出Kuda时也是这样，观众毫无反应，没有顾客想要它，也没有人询问，没人理解它。视频是一个上市公司，那你说的是哪个年份？大概是2000到2006年，大约20年前。2005年，哇，我们的股价下跌，我想我们的市值从大约120亿美元降到了两三亿美元。我把事情搞砸得很厉害。可是现在情况如何呢？

Yeah, it's higher Very envelope it's higher, but it changed the world yeah that invention changed the world It's it's incredible story Johnson it really is Thank you like your story it's incredible my story is not as incredible my story is more weird You know Much more for two it is and weird okay, what are the three Milestones that most important milestones that led to here That's a good question um what will step one?

好的，对，它是更高。非常重要的是它更高，但它改变了世界。是的，那项发明改变了世界。这真是一个令人难以置信的故事，Johnson，真的。谢谢，就像你的故事那样不可思议。我的故事没有那么不可思议，我的故事更奇怪。你知道的，更奇怪。那么，是什么三个最重要的里程碑导致了今天的成就？这是个好问题。那么第一步是什么？

I think step one was seeing other people do it Step one was in the initial days of podcasting like in 2009 when I started podcasting and only been Around for a couple of years The first was Adam Curry my good friend who was the pot father he he invented podcasting and then you know I remember Adam Corolla had a show because he had a radio show his radio show got cancelled And so he decided to just do the same show but do it on the internet and that was pretty revolutionary

我认为第一步是看到其他人已经在做了。第一步是在播客发展的初期，比如在2009年我开始做播客的时候，那时它才出现了几年。最早的是我的好朋友亚当·库里，他是“播客之父”，他发明了播客。然后，我记得亚当·卡罗拉也有一个节目，因为他的广播节目被取消了，所以他决定在网上做同样的节目，这真的是一个很有革命性的举动。

Nobody was doing that and then there was the experience that I had had doing Different morning radio shows like opian Anthony in particular because It was fun and we would just get together with a bunch of comedians You know, I'd be on the show with like three or four other guys that I knew and it was always just look for to it Which was just such a good time and I said god I miss doing that. It's so fun to do that

没有人这样做，然后我经历了一些不同的晨间广播节目，尤其是像Opie和Anthony这样的节目。因为那很有趣，我们会和一群喜剧演员一起参与。你知道的，我会和其他三四个我认识的人一起出现在节目中，总是非常期待，因为那真的是一段美好的时光。我心想，天啊，我真怀念那段时光，做这些事真是太有趣了。

I wish I could do something like that And then I saw Tom Green set up Tom Green had a setup in his house And he essentially turned his entire house into a television studio and he did an internet show from his living room He had servers in his house and cables everywhere to step over cables I was this is like 2007. I'm like Tom. This is nuts like this is And I'm like you got to figure out a way to make money from this like

我希望我也能做到这样的事情。然后我看到汤姆·格林的布置。汤姆·格林在他家设置了一个工作室。他基本上把整栋房子变成了一个电视演播室，并在他的客厅里做直播。他家里有服务器，到处都是电缆，走路都要跨过这些线缆。这大概是2007年的时候，我心想，汤姆，你这真是疯了。我还对他说，你得想办法从中赚钱。

I wish everybody I wish everybody in internet could see your setup. It's nuts. I just wanted you guys know that It's not just this So that was the the beginning of it is just seeing other people do it and then saying all right Let's just try it and then so the beginning days we just did it on a laptop Had a laptop with a webcam and just messed around had a bunch of comedians come in we were just talk and Joke around then I did it like once a week and then I started doing it twice a week

我希望每个人都能在网上看到你的设备，太疯狂了。我只是想让你们知道，这不仅仅是这样一回事。最开始的时候就是看其他人这样做，心想好吧，那我们也试试看。所以在起初的日子里，我们只是在笔记本电脑上进行的。用一个带摄像头的笔记本电脑，随便弄弄，邀请了一些喜剧演员过来，我们就聊天、开玩笑。最初我是每周做一次，然后我开始每周做两次。

And then also I was doing it for a year and then I was doing it for two years then I was like Oh, it's starting to get a lot of viewers a lot of listeners You know, and then I just kept doing it It's all it is. I just kept doing it because I enjoyed doing it. What was it? He set back No, no, there's never really a setback really no No, no, or you saw the same guy's you're just resilient or you're just tough No, no, no, no, wasn't tough or hard. It was just interesting.

然后我做了一年，然后又做了两年，然后我意识到，哇，观众和听众开始多起来了。于是我就继续做下去。就是这样，因为我喜欢做这件事。那过程中有遇到什么挫折吗？没有，真的没有遇到什么挫折。你是一直都保持同样的状态吗？是因为你很有韧性，还是因为你很坚强？没有没有，也没有很坚强或者很难，只是觉得这件事情很有趣。

So I just it the you were never once punched in the face No, not in the show. No, not really not not doing this you never did something that that Big blowback nope Not really no, it all just kept growing It kept growing and the thing stayed the same from the beginning to now and the thing is I enjoy talking to people. I've always enjoyed talking to interest I could even tell just when we walked in the way you interacted with everybody not just me

所以，我明白你的意思是，你从来没有被人揍过，对吗？在节目中没有，实际上也没有做过会引发严重反弹的事情。事情一直在发展，从开始到现在一切都没变。而且，我很享受与人交流。我总是喜欢与有趣的人交谈。甚至在我们刚进来的时候，我就能感觉到你与每个人的互动都很自然，而不仅仅是对我一个人。

Yeah, that's cool people cool. Yeah, that's cool. You know, I It's an amazing gift to be able to have so many conversations with so many interesting people because if Changes the way you see the world because you see the world through so many different people's eyes And you have so many different people have different perspectives and different opinions and different philosophies and different life stories and you know

是的，那真的很酷。能够与如此多有趣的人交谈真的是一种极好的礼物，因为这改变了你看待世界的方式。通过别人不同的眼睛，你会看到一个不同的世界。有这么多人有不同的视角、不同的观点、不同的哲学和不同的人生故事。

It's an incredibly enriching and educating experience having so many conversations with so many amazing people and That's all I started doing and that's all I do now even now when I Booked the show I do it on my phone and I basically go through this giant list of emails of all the people that want to be on the show or Requested to be on the show and then a factor in another list that I have of people that I would like to get on the show That I'm interested in and I just map it out

与许多精彩的人进行对话是一次极其丰富和有教育意义的经历。我就这样开始了，一直在做这样的事情。即使在我安排节目的时候，我也是在手机上操作的。我会浏览一个很长的邮件列表，上面是所有希望参加节目或申请参加节目的人。同时，我还有另一个列表，上面是我有兴趣邀请参加节目的人。我就这样规划和安排这些事情。

That's it. I go. Oh, I like to talk to him if it wasn't because of President Trump I wouldn't have been bumped up on that list Yeah, I wanted to talk to you already I just think you know what you're doing is very fascinating I mean how did not want to talk to you and then today you proved to be absolutely the right decision

就是这样。我走了。哦，我本来就想和他聊天，如果不是因为特朗普总统，我在名单上可能不会被提前。是的，我早就想和你谈谈了，我觉得你在做的事情非常吸引人。我怎么可能不想和你谈呢，今天你也证明这是个正确的决定。

Well, you know listen It's it's strange to be an immigrant one day Going to O'Neill Baptist Institute With with the students that were there and then here Invidia it's one of the most consequential companies in the history of companies It is a Crazy story. It has to be a current that journey is yeah, and it's very humbling and And I'm very grateful. It's pretty amazing surrounded by amazing people

嗯，你知道，听着，作为一名移民是件奇怪的事情。有一天，我在O'Neill浸信会学院和那里的学生们一起学习，而现在，我在Nvidia工作。这家公司是商业史上最具影响力的公司之一。这个故事太不可思议了。成为这个旅程的一部分是十分令人激动的经历，我感到非常谦卑和感激。能被这么出色的人包围，真的是件了不起的事情。

You're very fortunate and you've also you seem very happy and you seem like you're 100% on the right path in this life You know, you know, you everybody says you must love your job not every day That's not hot. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, the beauty of everything. Yeah, is that there's ups and downs It's never just like this giant dopamine high.

你很幸运，而且看起来非常开心，似乎在这辈子走在完全正确的道路上。你知道，每个人都会说你一定很爱你的工作，但并不是每天都是如此。你明白我的意思吗？是啊，生活的美妙之处就在于它有起有落，而不是持续不断的兴奋。

We leave we leave this impression here here's here's an impression. I don't think it's healthy we People who are successful leave the impression often that they Our job gives us great joy. I think largely it does That our jobs were passionate about our work Um, and that passion relates to it's just so much fun. I think it largely is But it it distracts from in fact a lot of success comes from Really really hard work.

我们留下了一个印象，这是一个印象。我不认为这很健康。成功的人经常给人这样的印象：我们的工作给我们带来了极大的快乐。我认为这在很大程度上是真的。我们的工作充满热情，而且这种热情让工作变得非常有趣。我认为这在很大程度上也是如此。但这可能让人忽略了一个事实：很多成功其实源自非常努力的工作。

Yes there's long periods of suffering and loneliness and uncertainty and fear and embarrassment and humiliation all of the feelings that we most not love that creating something from the ground up and and Elon will tell you something similar Very difficult to invent invent something new.

是的，在从零开始创造某样东西的过程中，会有很长时间的痛苦、孤独、不确定、恐惧、尴尬和屈辱——这些我们最不喜欢的感觉。创造新事物的过程非常艰难，埃隆也会告诉你类似的事情。

Yeah, and people people Don't believe you all the time. You're humiliated often disbelieved most of the time And so so people forget that part of success and and I I don't think it's health I think it's it's good that we pass that forward and let people know that that it's just part of the journey. Yes

是的，人们并不总是相信你。你经常会感到屈辱，大多数时候都不被相信。所以，人们常常忘记了成功的这一部分。我认为，这不是健康的问题，而是我们应该将这个经历传递下去，让大家知道这是旅程的一部分。是的。

And then suffering is part of the journey. You will appreciate it so much these horrible feelings that you have when things are not going so well You will appreciate it so much more when they do go well deeply grateful. Yeah Yeah deep deep pride Incredible pride Incredible incredible gratefulness and and surely incredible memories

痛苦是旅程的一部分。当事情不顺利时，你会对这些糟糕的感受有更深的体会。而当一切顺利时，你会更加感激这些经历。到那时，你会感到深深的自豪和极大的感激之情，并且拥有不可思议的回忆。

Absolutely Jansen, thank you so much for being here. Those are really fun. I really enjoyed it and your story is just absolutely incredible and very inspirational and And I you know, I think it really is the American dreamer. It is the American dreamer. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Bye everyone You

当然，非常感谢你来到这里，Jansen。那些东西真的很有趣。我很享受其中，而你的故事真是太不可思议了，非常鼓舞人心。我认为它真的是美国梦想者的体现。真的是美国梦想者。非常感谢你。好的，再见，各位。