Elon Musk with CNBC's David Faber about Robotaxi Launch 2025-05-21
发布时间 2025-05-21 06:20:46 来源
以下为中文翻译：
在奥斯汀特斯拉超级工厂对埃隆·马斯克的采访涵盖了广泛的主题，主要集中在特斯拉在自动驾驶方面的进展以及马斯克最近在政府部门的角色，尤其是关于预算削减及其影响。
马斯克自信地表示，特斯拉将在六月底之前在奥斯汀的道路上投放完全自动驾驶汽车。他解释说，这种信心源于汽车全天候运行的大量测试，并且几乎没有人工干预。最初的推出将是谨慎的，首先是少量车辆（第一周大约10辆），然后逐步扩大规模。马斯克预计在几个月内达到一千辆自动驾驶汽车，然后扩展到包括洛杉矶在内的其他城市，尽管加利福尼亚州的法规更为严格。他预测，到明年年底，美国可能会有数十万甚至超过一百万辆能够自动驾驶的特斯拉汽车。
他设想了一种类似于优步和爱彼迎的“赛博出租车”模式，特斯拉车主可以将他们的汽车加入车队，并在不自用的情况下赚取收入。当被问及雄心勃勃的目标时，马斯克引用了彼得·蒂尔的“从零到一”概念，强调一旦建立了验证点，规模化就只是时间问题。他承认，像纽约市中心这样的特定城市环境提出了独特的挑战，但他断言，即使现在，这些汽车也能在有人监督的完全自动驾驶下导航。
采访者询问马斯克，特斯拉与Waymo在自动驾驶方面的不同方法，Waymo使用28个摄像头、激光雷达和雷达。马斯克为特斯拉基于摄像头的神经网络系统辩护，他认为道路系统是为生物神经网络和眼睛设计的，因此人工智能和摄像头是最有效的解决方案。他声称，使用像激光雷达和雷达这样的多个传感器会导致混乱和潜在的事故。马斯克确认将在特斯拉汽车上安装麦克风，以便汽车可以检测到紧急车辆。
虽然自动驾驶汽车的最初部署将限制在奥斯汀最安全的地段，但也将会进行远程监控。对话涉及网约车和自动驾驶机会的收入和盈利能力。他驳斥了来自比亚迪等公司提供的免费自动驾驶的竞争，并表示特斯拉的重点是完善产品。
过渡到马斯克在政府部门的服务，采访者提出了关于他的行为导致品牌受损的担忧，有些人认为分裂越来越明显，一些不喜欢马斯克的人甚至曾经是客户。马斯克为他的言论自由辩护，并称被指控为纳粹是“传统媒体的宣传”。他举例说，他们仅仅因为他做了一个特定的手势就把他描绘成纳粹。
讨论转向预算削减以及对诸如美国国际开发署、美国服务队和美国国立卫生研究院等项目的影响。马斯克坚称，美国国际开发署内任何有价值的项目都已保留并纳入国务院。他认为问题在于腐败。他声称有很多例子表明，项目资助的是华盛顿特区的掮客和军阀，而不是援助的当地接受者。马斯克表示，没有任何值得同情且站得住脚的理由说明他们不应该被削减。
采访者质疑马斯克声称削减了1600亿美元赤字的说法，并指出人们对纳税人支出和美国国税局征收削减的担忧。马斯克澄清说，该计算基于2025财年和2026财年之间的支出差异，并考虑了延续到9月的遣散费。他承认国会最终将不得不修改预算。他强调说，这仅仅四个月，而他只是其中的一部分。
马斯克承认，第一季度Model Y的全球工厂改造影响了汽车收入和销量。然而，他表示特斯拉的需求正在大幅反弹。他询问人们在多大程度上关心首席执行官的政治观点，以至于影响购买产品。
The interview with Elon Musk at the Tesla Gigafactory in Austin covers a range of topics, primarily focusing on Tesla's advancements in autonomous driving and Musk's recent role in government service, particularly regarding budget cuts and their impact.
Musk confidently states that Tesla will have fully autonomous vehicles on the roads of Austin by the end of June. He explains that this confidence stems from extensive testing with cars driving 24/7 and showing virtually no interventions. The initial rollout will be cautious, starting with a small number of vehicles (around 10 in the first week) before gradually scaling up. Musk anticipates reaching a thousand autonomous cars within a few months and then expanding to other cities, including Los Angeles, despite California's stricter regulations. By the end of the following year, he predicts potentially hundreds of thousands, if not over a million, Tesla's capable of self-driving in the US.
He envisions a "cyber cab" model akin to Uber and Airbnb, where Tesla owners can add their cars to a fleet and earn revenue when not in personal use. When questioned about ambitious targets, Musk cites Peter Thiel's "zero to one" concept, emphasizing that once a proof point is established, scaling becomes a matter of time. He acknowledges that specific urban environments like downtown New York present unique challenges, but asserts that the cars can navigate them even now with supervised full self-driving.
The interviewer probes Musk about Tesla's different approach to autonomous driving compared to Waymo, which utilizes 28 cameras, LiDAR, and Radar. Musk defends Tesla's camera-based neural network system, arguing that the road system is designed for biological neural nets and eyes, making AI and cameras the most effective solution. He claims that using multiple sensors like LiDAR and Radar can lead to confusion and potential accidents. Musk confirms the microphones are going to be installed on Teslas so the car can detect emergency vehicles.
While initial deployment of autonomous vehicles will be within geofenced areas considered the safest in Austin, remote monitoring will also be in place. The conversation touches on the revenue and profitability of the ride-hailing and autonomous driving opportunity. He dismisses concerns about competition from companies like BYD, which offer levels of autonomy for free, stating that Tesla's focus is on perfecting the product.
Transitioning to Musk's government service, the interviewer raises concerns about brand damage resulting from his actions, with some suggesting divisiveness is becoming more prominent, with people disliking Musk, some of whom were customers. Musk defends his right to free speech, addressing accusations of being a Nazi as "legacy media propaganda". He provides an example of a claim, saying they painted him out to be a Nazi simply because of a certain hand gesture.
The discussion shifts to budget cuts and the perceived impact on programs like USAID, AmeriCorps, and NIH. Musk maintains that any worthwhile program within USAID was retained and folded into the State Department. He suggests the problem is corruption. He claims there were many instances of programs funding DC grafters and warlords, instead of the local recipients of the aid. Musk states there's no sympathetic sounding claim that holds any merit that they should have been cut.
The interviewer challenges Musk's claim of a $160 billion deficit reduction, citing concerns about taxpayer expenses and IRS collection cuts. Musk clarifies that the calculation is based on the spending difference between fiscal years 2025 and 2026, accounting for severance packages extending until September. He recognizes that Congress will ultimately have to change the budget. He underscores that it's only been four months and he's only part of the issue.
Musk acknowledges the global factory changeover for the Model Y in Q1 affected automotive revenue and unit sales. However, he states that Tesla is seeing a major rebound in demand. He asks how much people care about the political views of the CEO to the extent of purchasing a product.
中英文字稿 
Neil on musk is here we're in the lobby of the giga factory here in Austin. Last time I was here was your annual meeting a couple of years ago so thank you for having us back. Welcome back. Got a robot taxi right behind you. We do? Yeah, you can see it right there. Obviously the meaning of the Transportation Secretary.
尼尔·穆斯克在这里，我们正在奥斯汀的超级工厂大厅里。上次我来这里是几年前参加你们的年度会议，非常感谢你再次邀请我们。欢迎回来。你身后正好有一辆机器人出租车。是吗？对，你可以就在那边看到它。显然这是交通部长的意思。
Yeah. Are you going to have full autonomous on the roads of Austin by the end of June? Yes. You are. What gives you that confidence? We have a cars driving 24-7 with drivers in the cars and we see essentially no interventions. So we want to be very careful with the first introduction of unsupervised fuel self-driving meaning that the car is driving around with no one in it. So we're going to be. No one behind the drivers. Well yes and sometimes no one in it at all. Right. It's going to fix someone up. So the car seems to be incredibly safe. So we're just being.
好的。你们打算在六月底之前在奥斯汀的道路上实现完全自动驾驶吗？是的。你们有信心的原因是什么？我们有车辆24小时配备司机进行测试，几乎不需要人为干预。我们对首次引入无人监控的完全自动驾驶非常谨慎，也就是说，车子会在没有司机的情况下行驶。所以我们会非常小心。有时车里甚至不会有任何人。对，这辆车可能会去接人。因此，这辆车看起来非常安全。我们只是非常谨慎。
We have thousands of cars that are being tested which is creating some strange situations where we're just driving. There's just a bizarre number of Tesla's driving past people's houses. They're like what's going on. I think we've been saw one last night coming from the airport. Yeah. Driving at night alone. So it just. It just looked very lonely. It's just. You're a little. Look a little lonely.
我们正在测试成千上万的汽车，这导致了一些奇怪的情况，比如我们只是开车而已。路上有着不同寻常数量的特斯拉经过人们的家门口。人们会想，这到底是怎么回事。我想我们昨晚就看到一辆从机场开过来的特斯拉，晚上独自行驶着，看起来非常孤独。就像它显得有点孤单。
Yeah. So yeah, yeah. So you're going to have to go to the horse to the next one. Yeah. You know, some estimates have been that you're only going to have 10 to 12 of them on the road initially. I mean, it's going to be a very small amount. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah. For the first week. First week. How do you see it ramping up? Well, we'll have to see how well it does but.
好的，所以你需要去下一个地方。有些估计说最初上路的数量可能只有10到12辆。我是说，这将是一个非常小的数量，对吗？是的，是的。第一周。第一周。你觉得增加数量会怎么样？嗯，我们得看看效果如何。
You know, I think it's pretty much to start with a small number. Confirm that things are going well and then scale it up proportionate to how well we see it's doing. Right. And what's going to be a judge of how well it's doing? Are there any incidents? Are there any interventions? And. But we want to be. We want to. It's deliberately taken slow. And we could start with a thousand or ten thousand a day one. But I don't think that would be prudent. So we'll start with probably ten for a week then increase it to twenty thirty forty.
你知道，我觉得一开始从小的数量开始是比较合理的。先确认事情进展良好，然后根据效果再逐步扩大规模。对吧。那么，怎么来判断事情进展得怎么样呢？有没有出现问题？有没有需要干预的情况？我们希望能够有意识地放慢速度。我们可以在第一天就开始一千或一万的规模，但我认为那样不太谨慎。所以我们可能会先从十个开始，坚持一个星期，然后增加到二十、三十、四十。
And I think by say, you know, it would probably be at a thousand within a few months. And then we'll expand to other cities. So expand to the. It's going to just go to California. Los Angeles. Is that a real possibility in the not too distant future? I mean, Texas. Yes, of course. Very different. I don't need to tell you then, California when it comes to regulation. They don't really have much here in terms of dealing with autonomous.
我想说的是，可能在几个月内达到一千，然后我们将扩展到其他城市。扩展时，会先到加利福尼亚，比如洛杉矶。这在不久的将来会成为现实吗？我的意思是，德州当然很不一样。在监管方面，德州和加利福尼亚大相径庭。在处理自动驾驶技术方面，德州的规定并不多。
But it's a different story in California. Yeah, but California has already approved way more than what we've been doing autonomous driving. I know that. I know that. But approval or is it somehow? Right now the approval process is very haphazard and sort of state by state and sometimes city by city. We were talking to the Secretary of Transportation about that very fact a moment ago.
但在加利福尼亚的情况就不一样了。是的，加利福尼亚已经批准了比我们正在进行的自动驾驶项目多得多的内容。我知道，我知道。但是批准的过程是不是有些随意？目前，审批过程非常混乱，而且是按照州甚至有时城市来进行的。我们刚才还就这个问题和交通部长进行了讨论。
Right. So it's going to be important to have a unified set of national regulations for self-driving cars. Otherwise, you're going to get into a weird situation where if you're driving from Maine to New York, you're going to go through ten different sets of regulations. Cars going to hit behave differently. It's going to not make any sense. So one set of regulations that just like there is for highway driving, that's what I think makes sense for the country as a whole.
好的，为自动驾驶汽车制定一套统一的国家法规是很重要的。否则的话，比如你开车从缅因州到纽约州，就要经历十套不同的法规。汽车的表现会各异，这让人无法理解。因此，就像有统一的高速公路驾驶法规一样，制定一套全国统一的自动驾驶法规才是对整个国家最合理的做法。
But my prediction is that probably by the end of next year we'll have probably hundreds of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands. If not over a million Tesla's doing self-driving in the US. Those are not okay. But the percentage of those are going to be, well not the cyber cab, you're just talking about on full self-driving level four. I'm super-vice full self-driving. You do not need to pay attention.
我的预测是，到明年年底，美国可能会有数十万辆甚至超过一百万辆特斯拉汽车实现自动驾驶。这些车辆虽然还未完全商业化，但其中一些将会达到全自动驾驶的四级水平。这意味着驾驶员不需要时刻注意车辆的驾驶状况。
For me, if I own a Tesla and I have the software, the capability of doing it. Yes. But we'll have a model which is kind of like some combination of Uber and Airbnb. So if you're a Tesla owner, you'll be able to add or subtract your car to the fleet. So just like an Airbnb, you could like rent out your spare bedroom or rent out your house when you're not using it. And the same thing will be available for Tesla owners. So it's a way for Tesla owners to own revenue.
对我来说，如果我拥有一辆特斯拉，并且我有相应的软件和能力来实现这一点，那当然会这样做。我们将有一个类似于Uber和Airbnb的模式。所以，如果你是特斯拉车主，你可以将你的车加入或移出这个车队。就像Airbnb一样，你可以在不使用时出租你的空余卧室或房子。特斯拉车主也将拥有同样的功能。这是一种让特斯拉车主获得收入的方式。
Instead of having your car in the parking lot, your car could be earning money. We talked to you and I talked about that a couple of years ago. Which takes me back a bit because of course, you remember 2019 you were talking about 2020, the introduction of autonomous. And now you just introduced a fairly somewhat ambitious target. Why do you have the confidence now that, and what was it in a year? There'll be a million available.
与其让你的车停在停车场，你的车可以帮你赚钱。几年前我们聊过这个话题。这让我回想起之前的谈话，当然，你还记得在2019年你谈到2020年将引入自动驾驶技术。现在你刚刚提出了一个相当雄心勃勃的目标。你为什么现在这么有信心，而且为什么能在一年内实现？将有一百万辆车投入使用。
Well, and by the end of next year, I think. End of next year. So it's just born in 2018 months. 26, okay. Yeah. I think that's, I mean, these things happen slowly, but then all at once. So, you know, it's a Peter Tiel has a book, zero to one. Once you make, once you have a proof point, once you have it working, then scaling up is, you know, at just a matter of time. So once it's working well in Austin, then, you know, we'll make sure it works well in other cities. I mean, there are obviously some unique cases like downtown New York, like, you know, if you're, and that's highly unusual situation. Most cities in America are like, what's it? So. Right. Although you can go on full self-driving right now in New York, I mean, you can, obviously, have to sit there behind the wheel. Yes. And it'll do it. Oh, yeah. No, it'll navigate the traffic. I've seen it. Yes. Even a Tesla that you buy right now, and the self-driving just costs $99 a month.
好的，到明年年底吧。我是说，到明年年底。所以，这是2018年才开始的事情。26个月，好吧。我觉得，这些事情发生的过程总是缓慢而渐进的，但一旦有了突破，就会迅速发展。就像彼得·蒂尔在《从零到一》一书中说的那样，一旦你有了证明点，证明它能够正常工作，那么规模化只是时间问题。所以一旦它在奥斯汀运行良好，我们将确保它在其他城市也能顺利运行。当然，有些地方是特殊情况，比如纽约市中心，那种情况非常少见。美国的大多数城市情况类似。所以，尽管在纽约市你现在就可以体验全自动驾驶，但显然你还需要坐在方向盘后面，即使车辆会自动导航交通。我见过，是的。甚至你现在购买的特斯拉，只需每月支付99美元就能享受到自动驾驶功能。
We'll give you autonomous driving anywhere in the country right now. The question is when is it unsupervised? Right. Where that's where we want to sit. Were you sitting in the back, so to speak? Yes. Were you like asleep and the car, you wake up at your destination? Yeah. In order for that to be the case, we want the autonomous car to be much safer than a car during firepose. Right. Are we, you know, again, I'll come to Waymo because even though they only have about 700 cars, they obviously are on the market. They're in Beverly Hills all over the place. It's a proof of concept. They've got 28 cameras that got LiDAR and Radar. You've had a different approach. Sixth, I think, eight to nine cameras and the neural network. Why do you feel that that is going to be the equivalent in terms of safety profile? Oh, I think it'll be better. Why? Because the way that the road system is designed is for AI. It's basically, I should say, it's for intelligence, biological neural net and eyes. That's how the whole road system is designed.
我们现在可以在全国各地为你提供自动驾驶。问题是，什么时候可以实现无人监督的驾驶？就是说，我们希望达到这样一种状态——你坐在后排，就像是睡着了，然后在目的地醒来。为了实现这样的情景，我们希望自动驾驶汽车能够比人在着火时驾驶汽车还要安全。虽然Waymo的汽车只有大约700辆，但无疑已经进入市场，遍布比佛利山庄等地，是一个概念验证。他们有28个摄像头，还有激光雷达和雷达。而你选择了不同的方式，只有六到九个摄像头和神经网络。为什么你觉得这种方式在安全性上可以等同，甚至更好呢？我认为会更好。为什么？因为道路系统的设计就是为了AI，准确地说，是为了智慧、生物神经网络和视觉设计的。这就是整个道路系统的设计理念。
So what will actually work with the road system is artificial intelligence, digital neural nets and cameras. And we'll also have the microphones that are here emergency vehicles and that kind of thing. You are going to have the microphones to hear the… Yeah, you need to hear… Yeah, you need to hear… That was a question. Right. You need to hear a fire engine or a police car. Yes, exactly. Right. So, but that's how the whole road system is designed. It's not designed for shooting lasers at your eyes. So, and what we found is that when you have multiple sensors and they tend to get confused, do you believe the camera or do you believe the light are? And if you get confused, that's where you can… That's what can lead to accidents. So we used to have, for example, radar in the car, but we found that the radar and the camera would suddenly disagree and then you don't know which one to believe. So it wasn't about expense, it was just about… No.
实际上，与道路系统配合有效的技术是人工智能、数字神经网络和摄像头。此外，我们还需要有能够听到紧急车辆声音的麦克风。对，你需要听到消防车或警车的声音。没错，这就是我们的道路系统设计方式。系统不是为了把激光射到你的眼睛里设计的。我们发现，当有多个传感器时，它们往往会出现混乱，比如是相信摄像头还是相信激光雷达？如果你感到困惑，就可能导致事故。以前车上装有雷达，但我们发现雷达和摄像头有时会突然产生分歧，然后你不知道该相信哪个。因此，这并不是因为成本问题。
Yeah. You've seen the data right… In fact, we turned off the radars in the cars. You turned off the radar. Yeah. Are you comfortable right now if I were to say to you, all right, let's go. You think that you're there in terms of the safety profile you're seeing right now? Yeah, we could take a ride today, if you want. Sure. Yeah, I'm happy to take a ride with you on your turn, you want, wherever you want. Logistics capability to operate sort of a ride hailing fleet at scale, because you mentioned obviously, let's call it the end of 26. Are you going to have an app? Are you there? Do you have that ability? I think we can figure out an app. So, it tells me. You're not worried about it? Which is already has an app. Yeah, I know. But so, is there going to be a ride hailing? I'm going to have to introduce a ride an app.
好的。你看过数据了，对吧……实际上，我们已经关闭了车内的雷达。你们关闭了雷达。好的。我现在问你，如果我说“出发吧”，你是否觉得安全性已经达到你目前看到的水平？是的，如果你想的话，我们今天可以去兜风。当然可以。我很乐意和你一起去，随时随地都行。针对大规模运营的叫车服务，你提到的显然是26年底。你们会有一个应用程序吗？你们准备好了吗？我想我们可以搞定一个应用程序。所以，你对此不担心？本来就已经有一个应用了。我知道。但是，会有一个叫车服务吗？我需要推出一个应用。
You know, that's really not the… It's not too hard. No. XAI can probably do it for you in like an hour. Which is like an ride apps just fine. Do you ever consider licensing the technology at some point? I mean, there are a number of major automakers that have talked us about licensing self-driving and are very much open to that. So I think the more we demonstrate the capability of self-driving the more that they will want to license it. And we're happy to help. You know, back to the safety profile because it's going to obviously be something of key focus. Business insider, take it for what you want. But I saw this over the weekend. They did a test between Weimo and Tesla. And they weren't critical. The business insider is not a real publication. No, but it did seem…
你知道，这其实并不太难。XAI可能在一小时内就能帮你完成，就像打车软件一样简单。你有没有考虑过在某个时候授权这项技术？我的意思是，有一些大型汽车制造商跟我们谈过授权自动驾驶技术，他们对此持开放态度。所以我认为，我们展示自动驾驶能力越多，他们就越想要这个技术，而且我们也乐意提供帮助。回到安全性问题，这显然是一个关键的关注点。关于商业内幕这个媒体，你可以自行判断。周末我看到他们做了一个关于Waymo和特斯拉的测试，他们并没有持批评态度。商业内幕并不算是一个真正的出版物，但确实看起来……
They're afraid. Regardless of whether we want to have a debate about their journalist sitting integrity, which I don't. The test itself, let me just share it with you and get your reaction, which was the Weimo ultimately they said proved better in part only because it avoided with its geofencing, one very difficult intersection that the Tesla chose to go through. It stopped at a red light, but then it went through the red light.
他们感到害怕。不论我们是否想对他们记者的职业操守进行讨论，而我不想。至于测试本身，让我和你分享一下并听听你的反应。他们最后说，Weimo表现得更好，部分原因是它利用地理围栏避免了一个非常复杂的十字路口，而特斯拉选择驶过这个路口。特斯拉在红灯前停下了，但随后闯了红灯。
What's your reaction? Look, I'm not going to comment on some business insider article. But is that a concern at all? Because in a way, there's no geofencing. So it's like you're happy to go on the highways in a way that perhaps Weimo's not. I guess my question is, is that a concern at all for you in terms of it encountering things that are still sort of a crucial test and perhaps it fails? No, the first one that was that actually should have been a test of supervised unsurpriving.
你的反应是什么？听着，我不打算对某篇商业内幕文章发表评论。但是，这一点你完全不担心吗？因为在某种程度上，没有地理围栏。所以可以说，与或许Weimo不愿意这样做相比，你更乐于在高速公路上行驶。我想问的是，这一点对于你来说完全不担心吗，尤其是在遇到一些仍然是关键测试的情况时，可能会失败？不，实际上，第一个应该是监督学习的测试。
It's a supervised self-driving, not unsupervised self-driving. So the assumption there is that you have a person who is going to take over. So their test made no sense. When we deploy the cars in Austin, we are actually going to deploy not to the entire Austin region, but only to the parts of Austin that we consider to be the safest. So we will geofencing. You will. Yeah, of course.
这是有监督的自动驾驶，而不是无监督的自动驾驶。这就意味着有一个人在必要时可以接管驾驶。因此，他们的测试没有意义。当我们在奥斯汀部署汽车时，我们实际上不会覆盖整个奥斯汀地区，而是仅限于我们认为最安全的区域。所以我们会设置地理围栏。是的，当然。
Yeah. So it's not going to take intersections unless we are highly confident it's going to do well with that intersection. It will just take a route around that intersection. But there won't be a safety driver in the car. Correct. Right. There's not going to be somebody sitting there. But you did have ads for vehicle operator auto pilots. What was that about then?
好的，所以除非我们非常有信心可以顺利通过某个路口，否则它不会选择通过这些路口，而是会绕行。但是，车里不会有安全驾驶员，对吗？是的，车里不会有人坐着。可是你们之前确实发布了招募车辆操作员自动驾驶员的广告，这又是怎么回事呢？
Are there going to be people who are remotely sort of monitoring the performance of the fleet? Yeah. And what will they do? They'll just be. We're going to be extremely paranoid about the deployment as we should be. We foolish not to be. So we'll be watching what the cars are doing very carefully. And as we find, as confidence grows, less of that will be needed.
会有一些人远程监控车队的表现吗？会的。他们会做些什么呢？他们会密切关注。我们会对车辆的部署表现得非常谨慎，这样是对的。要是不谨慎，那就太愚蠢了。因此，我们会仔细观察汽车的表现。不过，随着信心的增加，对这种监控的需求会减少。
You know, again, you spoke about it and we spoke about it a couple of years ago. And obviously, your investor base, many of whom are watching right now, are interested in the revenue and profitability of this ride hailing auto-rotaxing and autonomous driving opportunity. EYD, I believe at this point in China, is now offering levels of autonomy for free.
你知道，我们之前谈过这个问题，几年前也讨论过。而显然，你的投资者群体，许多人现在正在观看，都对这项网约车、自动叫车和自动驾驶的收入和盈利潜力感兴趣。我相信在目前的中国，EYD已经在免费提供一定程度的自动驾驶技术。
I mean, are you confident you're going to be in a position to continue to get a premium for that particular level? Well, interestingly in China, we're not out of chain train on videos in China. So when we released full-stop driving, it was actually just trained on the rest of the world, but not in China. And the tests by local Chinese publications, I think, concluded that even without training on local Chinese roads, the Tesla self-driving was the best.
我是说，你有信心能够继续为那个特定水平获得高额回报吗？有趣的是，在中国，我们的视频训练不包括中国。所以当我们发布完全自动驾驶功能时，其实只是在世界其他地方进行了训练，而不是在中国。而当地的中国媒体测试后认为，即使没有在中国本土道路上进行训练，特斯拉的自动驾驶仍然是最好的。
It was the best. Yes. But again, I mean, it's the technology. In fact, there's some pretty wild videos where people are like doing self-driving, which we don't recommend, obviously, on like narrow mountain roads, including one where there's a sharp precipice on either side and no barriers, and they're doing self-driving across that. They have more confidence.
这是最好的。是的。不过，我指的是技术。实际上，有一些相当疯狂的视频，人们在狭窄的山路上进行自动驾驶，我们当然不推荐这么做。比如其中一个视频，路的两边是陡峭的悬崖，没有护栏，而他们却在这段路上进行自动驾驶。他们对此非常有信心。
I have to have more confidence in China. Yeah, we don't recommend this, but I saw the video. Are you regulated to have full? Where are you in China right now in terms of your ability to offer that product, though? Well, we have. We have to get to technology right. Understood. Unsupervised. Supervised full-salt driving, where there's a person in the car, it has approval in China.
我需要对中国有更多的信心。是的，我们不建议这样做，但我看了那个视频。关于你们在中国能否全面提供这种产品的问题，你目前处于什么阶段？嗯，我们必须把技术做好。我明白了。在中国，有人在车里时的无人监督或有人监督的完全自动驾驶已经获得批准。
But as we. Whenever we release a new version, we have to get an incremental approval. And at times, we do have to battle other car companies in China who are trying to stop us from applying. It's incredibly competitive market. It's a new. China is the most competitive market. This isn't BYD, which is neck and neck with you, I think, in the EV race.
但是，每当我们发布新版本时，我们都需要获得额外的批准。有时，我们还需要与试图阻止我们申请的其他中国汽车公司竞争。市场竞争非常激烈。中国是一个全新的、最具竞争力的市场。这不是比亚迪，他们在电动车竞赛中与我们不相上下。
I think it's fair to say. Worldwide, correct? I don't really follow that. You don't? No. Well, they're willing, again, my question is they're willing to seemingly offer different levels of autonomy for. I don't want to call it free, but part of the cost of the car. You see that as a possibility for you, or is it always going to be that add-on and therefore that significant revenue stream conceivably?
我觉得可以说，这在全球范围内都是正确的，对吗？我不是很理解。你不明白吗？不。不管怎样，我的问题是，他们似乎愿意在车价的一部分里提供不同级别的自动驾驶功能。我不想称其为免费的，但它是车价的一部分。你认为这是个可能性吗，还是说它始终会是一个附加项，从而可能成为一个重要的收入来源？
I don't really think about competitors. I just think about making the product as perfect as possible. You don't think about competitors at all. I don't know. I just think about making. What we want to achieve is the platonic ideal of the perfect product. And as long as you focus on that, you will have a compelling product, obviously.
我其实不太考虑竞争对手。我只是专注于让产品尽可能完美。你完全不考虑竞争对手吗？我不知道。我只想着去创造。我们想要实现的是理想中完美产品的概念。只要你专注于这一点，显然你就会拥有一个引人注目的产品。
All right. Well, there's a potentially compelling product right behind you, which is a robot taxi. So when are we, you know, in five years are they going to be all over the place? Yes. They will. You're confident in that. Yeah. Talking about Tesla, obviously, you know, takes me to a certain extent to what someone would say is the brand damage done by your government service. I don't know. You would agree with that.
好的。嗯，你身后有一个可能特别吸引人的产品，那就是无人驾驶出租车。那么，五年后它们会到处都是吗？会的。你对此有信心吗？是的。显然，我们在谈论特斯拉，这在某种程度上让我想到有人可能会说你在政府任职期间对品牌造成了一定的损害。我不知道你是否同意这个观点。
Test on pros and cons. There have been some pros and cons. We sat here two years ago upstairs and you famously said when I asked you about this very subject, I don't care. I'm going to say what I want to say and so be it. Do you regret that? No. No, why not? I believe that we want to live in a free society where people are allowed to say what they want to say within reasonable bounds, like, you know, you can't advocate for the murder of somebody. But free speech is the bedrock of a functioning democracy. That's why it's the first amendment. Without a doubt.
测试利弊。有一些利弊。我们两年前在楼上坐在这里，当我问到这个话题时，你曾著名地说过“我不在乎，我会说我想说的话，就是这样。” 你后悔吗？不，不后悔，为什么不呢？我相信我们希望生活在一个允许人们在合理范围内表达自己意见的自由社会中，比如，你不能鼓吹谋杀某人。但言论自由是一个运作良好的民主社会的基石。这就是为什么它是第一修正案。毫无疑问。
But I guess my question is more about your work at Doge, for example. Was that worth it, you know, to the extent you are now Elon, you were somewhat divisive and you were just figured two years ago, but now you really are. I mean, there are people who love you, but there are a lot of people who dislike you. Some of whom were your customers. And I wonder was it worth the undertaking at Doge and everything else that you've done and how it's spoken you've been in terms of the things you believe in to antagonize so many potential buyers and or users of things like a robot taxi?
不过，我的问题更多是关于你在Doge的工作，比如说。你觉得值得吗？因为现在的你，埃隆，以前你也算是个有争议的人物，两年前你就已经是这样了，但现在更是如此。确实，有不少人喜欢你，但也有很多人不喜欢你，其中一些还是你的顾客。我想知道，在Doge的工作和你所做的其他事情中，你所付出的努力是否值得，因为你一直对自己坚信的东西直言不讳，是否因此惹恼了很多潜在的买家和用户，比如自动驾驶出租车的用户？
Well, I mean, unfortunately, what I've learned is that legacy media propaganda is very effective at making your belief things that aren't true. What would an example of that being? That I'm a Nazi, for example. And how many legacy media publications, talk shows, whatever, try to claim that I was a Nazi because of some random ham gesture at a rally where all I said was that my heart goes out to you and I was talking about space travel.
好的，我的意思是，不幸的是，我发现传统媒体的宣传非常擅长让人们相信一些不真实的事情。有什么例子呢？比如说，有人把我说成是纳粹。多少传统媒体的出版物、脱口秀节目等，试图因为我在一次集会上随意摆出的一个手势就说我是纳粹，而那次集会上，我只是说“我非常关心你们”并且在谈论太空旅行。
And yet, the legacy media promoted that as though that was a deliberate Nazi gesture. And in fact, every politician, any public speaker who's spoken for any length of time has made the exact same gesture. And yet there are still people out there. And I've never harmed a single person. I was, you know what, Elon, I was not. Now, you asked for an example. I was, I was even going to talk to you about it because in fact, I hear a number of people who are close to you and I call them afterwards and all of them to a person who are like, no way, no way.
尽管如此，传统媒体还是宣扬那件事，好像那是一个故意的纳粹手势。事实上，每个政客或公众演讲者，只要他们演讲过一段时间，都曾做出过完全相同的手势。然而，还是有人相信这种宣传。我从未伤害过任何人，你知道吗，Elon，我没有。你问我举个例子，我甚至想和你谈谈这件事，因为实际上，我听到一些与你关系密切的人说，我后来联系了他们，每个人都说，绝对不可能，不可能。
Of course not. But that isn't necessarily the perception. The work you've done for Doge has also come obviously into the spotlight in a great deal. And people are upset about USAID being put into the wheelchair. People are upset about AmeriCorps disappearing. People are upset about, and this isn't even on your side, the NIH. And so many other areas that they feel rightly or wrongly are being cut as a result of your efforts.
当然不是这样。但人们未必这么认为。你为Doge所做的工作显然引起了极大的关注。人们对美国国际开发署（USAID）被搁置感到不满。人们对志愿服务计划（AmeriCorps）消失感到不满。人们对国立卫生研究院（NIH）的情况感到不满，这甚至和你无关。还有许多其他领域，人们觉得（不论是否正确）由于你的努力而被削减，因此感到不安。
And I just, I guess I wonder as you start to transition now back to Tesla in a more significant way, was it worth it? Yeah, first of all, any program in USAID that had any semblance of merit was retained and folded into the state department. So, and if there's some exception to that, we're all ears and we'd love to look at it. We just want to see the evidence that the program was doing actually doing good and not just funding for after DC and warlords in some country.
"我只是，我想知道，当你开始更大程度地回归特斯拉时，这一切是否值得？首先，任何在美国国际开发署（USAID）中有价值的项目都被保留并整合进了国务院。所以，如果有任何例外，我们都愿意倾听并乐于查看。我们只是想看到这些项目确实在做好事的证据，而不仅仅是为华盛顿特区的官僚和某个国家的军阀提供资金。"
Because over and over again, we saw not, so sympathetic sounding programs. Right. And we actually said, well, please show us pictures of the recipients of the aid. We just, or let us get into contact with them. No pictures were forthcoming. They didn't give us any contact information. And we're like, look, we're not going to send money to DC, grafters, and warlords. That's not a good use of money.
一次又一次，我们看到的这些看似同情心泛滥的项目，其实并不是真实情况。我们就说，拜托，能让我们看看接受援助者的照片吗，或者让我们和他们联系一下。但对方没有提供任何照片，也不给我们任何联系方式。于是我们就觉得，把钱寄给华盛顿的骗子和军阀是浪费，这样的资金使用毫无意义。
So that's what we're going to do. Now, invariably, when you stop waste and fraud, it's not like the fraudsters admit their guilt. They don't say like, oh, isn't it so great that the money we were getting, fortunately, has been stopped. They will obviously come up with a sympathetic sounding claim, but that claim has no merit. That all may be true.
所以这就是我们要做的。 现在，当你制止浪费和欺诈时，那些骗子并不会承认他们的罪行。他们不会说，哦，我们之前拿到的钱被截住真是太好了。他们显然会找借口编出看似有理的说辞，但这种说辞根本没有道理。这些都是真的。
I guess what I would come back to, because I talked about economics all day long, is, you know, to your point you've been making, we have a deficit that's running at about 6.7% of GDP. Right. We have interest costs that are going to be above a trillion. It's not going down next year. You entered this thinking you could cut as much as a trillion dollars. You're nowhere near that. It's not really making the dent, I think, you may have thought you might have been able to achieve in terms of a true problem, would you agree?
我整天都在谈论经济，所以我想回到你提到的要点。我们的财政赤字大约占国内生产总值 (GDP) 的 6.7%。我们的利息成本也会超过一万亿美元，而且明年不会减少。你最初以为可以削减多达一万亿美元，但实际上远远没有达到目标。我认为这并没有真正解决我们面临的问题，对此你同意吗？
Well, first of all, it would obviously be ridiculous to assume that we're going to achieve that on day one. So it's only been for what, four months. And we've done a fire calculations, people may disagree, improve the deficit by 160 billion dollars. Right. That's your number that's out there. A lot of people take issue with it and say, well, you know, taxpayers' expenses such as paid leave, that's 135 billion that's got to come back. IRS collection may go down as a result of cuts there. We have an S-Grock. It's said between five and 32 billion is what you've actually said. You need to ask, the right question to ask is, what is the bit for the actions of Doge? What would the incremental expenditures be in FY26? Yep. Because, for example, we offered, we offered severance and early retirement to a lot of government employees. Many of them took us up on that. But that severance went all the way through to September. So there's not going to be any savings until October.
首先，认为我们会在第一天就实现目标显然是不现实的。我们才进行了四个月，而我们进行了一些计算，有人提到赤字改善了1600亿美元。很多人对此表示质疑，比如说纳税人的花费，如带薪休假，这1350亿美元会回来。而且，税务局的收入可能因为削减而减少。有一个机构提到实际数值在50到320亿美元之间。正确的问题是，对于我们采取的措施，2026财年的额外支出是什么？因为我们提供了离职金和提前退休方案给很多政府员工，许多人接受了这个方案。但是，这些离职金要到九月份才结束，所以节省要等到十月份才会显现。
Because the severance goes through September. Understood. So the Delta really is, what is the spending difference? FY25, of course, is FY26 as a function of Doge's actions. That's how we calculate the number. And we'll see if that turns out to be true or not. Aren't there more effective ways we ultimately could have gotten at it? And by changing the retirement age or really going after some other parts of the budget? We're trying to go after every part of the budget. That's just some personal boring. You're about efficiency. You're about efficiency. I mean, that would take an act to Congress, obviously, to really make change. Yeah. Significance, I'm talking about that.
因为遣散费支付一直到九月份。明白了。那么差异其实是在哪里呢？是 FY25 和 FY26 的支出差异，这个是基于 Doge 的行动来计算的。我们会看看这种方法是否能反映真实情况。难道没有更有效的方法来解决这个问题吗？比如改变退休年龄或者认真调整预算的其他部分？我们正在尝试调整预算的各个方面。这只是一些个人无趣琐事。你追求的是效率。当然，要真正改变这一切需要国会的行动。是的，我是说这事情的重要性。
First of all, so I think in our opinion, we've created a $160 billion Delta FY25 to FY26, very significant, that 16 percent of the way towards the trillion in five months. And in order to make progress, we need the consent, obviously, of the, not just the executive branch, but also the legislative branch and the judicial branch. So if we, you know, and we are advisors, we're not, we're not, we're not, uh, kings here. I get it. So why are you attacking this given that we've made so much progress? You mean the weight, not me, not me. I'm not attacking. I'm just asking questions. In fact, I want to ask a lot more about Tesla. I'm told you have a call at 130. I don't know if you'll be able to come back or, but let me, let me, let me, well, that would be great.
首先，我认为在我们的观点中，我们创造了一个1600亿美元的差额，从2025财年到2026财年，这是非常显著的，达到了实现万亿目标的16%，并且仅用时五个月。为了取得进展，我们显然需要不仅仅是行政部门，还包括立法部门和司法部门的同意。我们只是顾问，不是决策者，我明白这一点。那么，为什么在我们已经取得这么大进步的情况下，你还要质疑呢？不是我，不是我在质疑。我只是有些问题要问。实际上，我还想了解更多关于特斯拉的事情。我听说你在1:30有个电话会议。我不知道你是否能回来，但这会很棒。
Um, because I, I do want to talk about Tesla. I mean, I was talking about brand damage and what you're seeing in the market. You did an interview earlier this morning where you seem to indicate you're starting to see a rebound. Yes. And you know, automotive revenue was down 20% last quarter. I think 50,000 fewer units were sold in the Q1 versus Q1 a year ago. What is giving you confidence in the automotive business? Or is it all about robot taxes as you've been saying? And people can't quite see them behind me. The robots as well. Well, really, the only things that matter in the long term are autonomy and optimists. Those overwhelmingly dominate the future financial success of the company.
呃，因为我确实想谈谈特斯拉。我之前提到了品牌受损和市场上的观察。今天早上你做了一个采访，在采访中你似乎表示市场正在回暖。是的，你知道，上个季度汽车收入下降了20%，第一季度比去年同期少卖了5万辆车。是什么让你对汽车业务有信心？或者说，这一切是不是都和你一直提到的机器人征税有关？人们看不到我身后的那些机器人。实际上，从长远来看，唯一重要的事情是自动驾驶和机器人。这两者在很大程度上决定了公司未来的财务成功。
Um, that's for Q1. We had a global factory changeover for the Model Y. So there's a new version of the Model Y that came out, which required factory shutdown across the world. Model Y is the number one selling car of any kind of number one in the world. I know. I watch your presentation during your last, right here, I think during your last earnings. Right. No one selling car in the world. So we can't make cars if the factories are retooling. So we, the right time to retool is the first quarter since generally that's when the least demand occurs. But we've seen a major rebound at the moment. I feel comfortable with it.
嗯，这是关于第一季度的情况。我们对Model Y进行了全球工厂的改造。于是，推出了一个新版的Model Y，需要在全球范围内关闭工厂进行调整。Model Y是全球销售排名第一的车型。是的，我记得在你们的上一次财报会上，你就提到过。没错，它是全球销量第一的车。所以，当工厂在重新调整的时候，我们是没有办法生产汽车的。所以，我们选择在第一季度进行改造，因为一般来说这时候的需求最小。但我们现在看到了强劲的反弹，我对此感到满意。
You have seen or major rebound in demand. You really believe you have seen that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, but for most people, right? I mean, when you buy a product, I mean, how much do you care about the political views of the CEO, or even know what they are? No, you don't, but you've made it, you know, frustratingly, Elon, I know you have a 130 call. We promise to get you out in time for it. I hope you'll come back perhaps if you can afterwards. I'll have to wait here and sit and talk to you some more, but I want to let you go because I know that's an important call. All right. Thank you for taking this time. I hope we get to talk some more on the other side about this very issue. Elon Musk, obviously joining us hosting us here at the Gigafactory. And perhaps we'll come back as well in a little bit, but I will end it there for now. Kelly, back to you.
你们已经看到了需求的大幅反弹。你真的相信你看到了这一点。是的，绝对如此。我是说，对于大多数人来说，当你购买一件产品时，你会有多在意CEO的政治观点，或者你甚至知道他们是什么吗？不，你不会，但这确实让人感到沮丧，Elon，我知道你在1:30有个电话会议。我们保证及时让你参加。我希望你之后能回来。如果可以的话，我会在这里等待，继续和你聊聊，但我知道那个电话会议很重要，所以想让你尽快去。好的。感谢你抽时间来参与。我希望之后我们能继续讨论这个非常重要的话题。Elon Musk显然在这里加入了我们，并在Gigafactory接待了我们。或许他稍后也会再回来，但现在我就先到这里。Kelly，交还给你。