44 Harsh Truths About Human Nature - Naval Ravikant (4K)

发布时间 2025-03-31 15:00:22 来源

中英文字稿

Happiness is being satisfied with what you have. Success comes from dissatisfaction. It's success worth it then. Oof. I'm not sure that statement is true anymore. Like I made that statement a long time ago. And a lot of these things are just notes to myself and they're highly contextual. They come in the moment, they leave in the moment. Happiness, okay. So, very complicated topic. But I always like the Socrates story where he goes into the marketplace and they show him all these luxuries and fine reason. He says, how many things there are in this world that I do not want? And that's a form of freedom. So, not wanting something is as good as having it. In the old story with Alexander Dionysius, right? Alexander goes out and conquers the world and he meets Dionysius living in a barrel.

幸福就是对自己拥有的感到满足。成功则源于不满足。那么成功值得追求吗？唉，我不太确定这句话是否仍然正确。我很早以前说过这句话，其中很多只是我当时写下的笔记，具有很强的语境性，它们随心而来，又随心而去。幸福，是个非常复杂的话题。但我一直很喜欢苏格拉底的故事，他走进市场，别人向他展示各种奢侈品和名贵理由，他说：“这世界上有多少东西是我不需要的啊！”这是一种自由的体现。所以，不想要某样东西和拥有它一样好。在亚历山大与第欧根尼的古老故事中，亚历山大征服了世界，然后遇到了住在木桶里的第欧根尼。

And Dionysius says, get out of the way you're blocking my son. And Alexander says, oh, how I wish I could be like Dionysius in the next life. And Dionysius says, that's the difference. I don't wish that I could. Sorry, Diogenes. Diogenes, Diogenes. Diogenes says I don't wish to be Alexander. So, two paths to happiness and one path is success. You get what you want. You satisfy your material needs. Or like Diogenes, you just don't want it in the first place. And I'm not sure which one is more valid. And it also depends on which you define success. If the end goal is happiness, then why not cut to the chase and just go straight for it? Does being happy make you less successful?

迪奥尼修斯说：“让开，你挡住我儿子了。” 亚历山大说：“哦，我真希望下辈子能像迪奥尼修斯一样。” 迪奥尼修斯回答：“这就是区别，我从不希望如此。抱歉，狄奥根尼。” 狄奥根尼说：“我并不想成为亚历山大。” 这说明有两条通往幸福的道路，其中一条是追求成功：得到你想要的，满足物质需求。另一条像狄奥根尼那样，从一开始就不想要这些。我不确定哪一条更有价值。这也取决于你如何定义成功。如果最终目标是幸福，为什么不直接去追求幸福呢？难道幸福会让你不那么成功吗？

That is a conventional wisdom that may even be the practical earned experience of your reality. You find that when you're happy, you don't want anything so you don't get up and do anything. On the other hand, you still got to do something. You're an animal. You're here. You're here to survive. You're here to replicate. You're driven. You're motivated. You're going to do something. You're not just going to sit there all day. Unlikely, some people do. Maybe it's in their nature. But I think most people still want to act. They want to live in the arena. I've found for myself as I've become happier as a big word, but you know, more peaceful, more calm, more present, more satisfied with what I have.

这是一种常识，甚至可能是你现实中切身体会到的经验。你会发现，当你感到快乐的时候，你不太想去做什么，于是就不去做。然而，你还是得做一些事情。毕竟你是一个具有生存本能的动物。你在这里就是为了生存，为了繁衍后代。你的内在驱动力和动力促使你去行动，而不仅仅是整天坐在那。虽然确实有些人可能这样做，也许是他们的天性，但我认为大多数人仍然希望去行动，他们想在生活的舞台上积极参与。我个人发现，随着我变得更快乐——这个词也许有点大，但我指的是更平和、更冷静、更活在当下、更满足于现状。

I still want to do things. I just want to do better things. I want to do things that are more pure, more aligned with what I think needs to be done and what I can uniquely do. So in that sense, I think that being happier can actually make you more successful, but your definition of success will likely change along the way. Is that a realization you think you could have gotten to had you have not had some success in the first place? At least for me, I always wanted to take the path of material success first. I was not going to go be an aesthetic and sit there and renounce everything. That just seems too unrealistic and too painful.

我依然想去做一些事情，但我希望做得更好。我想做一些更纯粹、更符合我内心想法的事情，也是我能独特去做的事情。从这个角度来看，我认为快乐可以让你变得更成功，不过你对成功的定义可能会在这个过程中发生变化。如果没有一些成功的基础，您是否认为还会有这样的领悟呢？至少对我来说，我一直想先追求物质上的成功。我不打算成为一个苦行者，放弃一切专注于内心的追求，因为这对我来说过于不切实际，也太痛苦了。

In the story of Buddha, he starts out as a prince. And then he sees that it's all kind of meaningless because you're still going to get old and die and then he goes into the woods looking for something more. I'll take the happy route that involves material success. Thank you. I think it's quicker in some ways. You know, one of your insights is it's far easier to achieve a material desires than is to renounce them. It depends on the person, but I think you have to try that path. If you want something, go get it. I equip that the reason to win the game is to be free of it.

在佛陀的故事中，他一开始是个王子。后来，他发现这一切都是无意义的，因为人最终还是会变老和死去。因此，他走进森林，寻找更深层次的意义。而我选择走一条充满物质成功的快乐路径。因为在某些方面，我觉得这条路更快捷。你的看法之一是：追求物质欲望要比放弃它们容易得多。当然，这取决于每个人，但我认为你需要尝试这条路。如果你想要什么，就去追求它。我认为赢得比赛的意义在于最终能够超越它。

So you play the games, you win the games, and then you hopefully get bored of the games. You don't want to just keep looping on the same game over and over, although a lot of these games are very enticing. You have many levels and are relatively open-ended. And then you become free of the game in a sense that you're no longer trying to win it. You know you can win it. And either you move to a different game or you play the game for the sheer joy of it. Yeah, another one of yours, most of the games in life come from suffering in the short term. So you can get paid in the long term. That's classic. Winning the marshmallow test on a daily basis.

所以你玩游戏，赢得比赛，然后希望能对游戏感到厌倦。你不想一直重复玩同一个游戏，尽管很多游戏都非常吸引人。你会发现它们有很多关卡，而且相对开放。然后，你从某种意义上摆脱了游戏，不再执着于赢得它。你知道自己可以赢得胜利。接下来，你要么开始一个新的游戏，要么只是为纯粹的乐趣而玩。同样地，生活中的大多数“游戏”都需要在短期内忍受痛苦，才能在长期内获得回报。这就像每天都在通过棉花糖测试一样，这是一种经典的表现。

But there's an interesting challenge where I think people need to avoid becoming a suffering addict. Sort of using suffering as the proxy for progress as opposed to the outcome of the suffering. It's like I was in pain not eating the marshmallow. I was in pain doing this work. I have attached well-being and satisfaction to pain not to what the pain gets me on the other side of it. If you define pain as physical pain, then it's a real thing. It happens and you can't ignore it. But that's not what we mean by suffering. Suffering is mostly mental, anguish and mental pain. And it just means you don't want to do the task at hand.

有一个有趣的挑战，我认为人们需要避免成为“痛苦上瘾者”。这就像用痛苦来衡量进步，而不是关注痛苦带来的结果。就好像我在忍受不吃棉花糖的痛苦，我在工作中承受痛苦一样。我把幸福感和满足感与痛苦联系在了一起，而不是与痛苦带来的结果联系起来。如果把痛苦定义为身体上的痛苦，那确实是一种真实的存在，是无法忽视的。但这里我们说的并不是这种痛苦。所谓的“痛苦”更多是精神上的，是内心的煎熬和痛苦。这往往意味着你不想完成手头的任务。

If you were fine doing the task at hand, then you wouldn't be suffering. And then the question is what's more effective to suffer along the way or just to interpret it in a way that is not suffering. You hear from a lot of successful people, they look back and they say, oh the journey was a fun part. That was actually the entertaining part. I should have enjoyed it more. It's a common regret. There's a little thought exercise I like to do, which is you can go back into your own life and try to put yourself in the exact position you were in five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago. And you try to remember, okay, who was I, what was I doing, what was I feeling, what were my emotions, what were my objectives, and really try to transport yourself back.

如果你在做手头的任务时感到良好，那么你就不会觉得痛苦。问题在于，在过程中受苦更有效，还是以不痛苦的方式去理解这件事更有效。你会听到很多成功人士回顾过去时说，哦，过程其实是有趣的部分，那才是娱乐的部分。我应该更享受这个过程。这是一个常见的遗憾。我喜欢做一个小小的思维练习，就是让自己回到五年前、十年前、十五年前、二十年前的状态。试着记住：当时我是谁，我在做什么，我的感受是什么，我的情绪是什么，我的目标是什么，并真正尝试把自己带回到过去。

And see if there's any advice you'd give yourself, anything you'd do differently. Now, you don't have new information, don't pretend you could have gone back and bought a stock or bought Bitcoin or whatever, but just knowing what you know now in terms of your temperament and a little bit of age-related experience. How would you have done things differently? And I think it's a worthwhile exercise to do. So don't let me rob you of the conclusion, but I'll tell you for me, I would have done everything the same, except I would have done it with less anger, less emotion, less internal suffering. Because that was optional, it wasn't necessary.

看看有没有什么建议想给过去的自己，有什么事情你会选择不同的做法。现在，你不能假装自己有新信息，比如回到过去买入某支股票或比特币等，但只凭借你现在在性格和一点点年龄增长后的经验来看，你会如何不同地处理事情？我觉得这是个很有意义的练习。所以，我不想影响你的结论，但就我自己来说，我会选择做同样的事情，只是会减少愤怒、情绪化和内心的痛苦。因为那些是可以选择避免的，并不是必须经历的。

And I would argue that someone who can do the job, at least peacefully, but maybe happily, is going to be more effective than someone who has unnecessary emotional turmoil. Well, you end up with a series of miserable successes, right? The outcome may have been the same, but the entire experience of getting that. And the journey is not only the reward, the journey is the only thing there is. Even success, it's human nature to bank it very, very quickly, right? Because the normal loop that we run through is you sit around your board, then you want something, then when you want something, you decide you're not going to be happy until you get that thing.

我认为，一个能够平和地完成工作，甚至是快乐地完成工作的人，会比那些因为不必要的情绪波动而烦恼的人更有效率。如果你总是心烦意乱，即便你取得了成功，也只能算是一系列痛苦的成功。结果可能一样，但整个过程中经历的感受完全不同。旅程不仅仅是奖励，旅程本身就是一切。即使是成功，人性使然，很快就会习以为常。我们通常的循环是：感到无聊，然后想要某样东西，接着决定在得到之前不会感到快乐。

Then you start your bout of suffering or anticipation while you strive to get that thing. If you get that thing, then you get used to it, and then you get bored again, then a few months later you want something else. And if you don't get it, then you're unhappy for a bit, and then you get over it, and then you want something else, right? That's the normal cycle. So whether you're happy or unhappy at the end, it tends not to last. Now, I don't want to be glib and say that, oh, there's no point in making money or being successful. There absolutely is. Money solves all your money problems. So it is good to have money.

然后，你开始在追求那个东西的过程中经历痛苦或期待。如果你得到了这个东西，你会慢慢习惯它，然后再次感到无聊，几个月后又会想要别的东西。而如果你没有得到它，你会感到一阵不快，然后慢慢释然，接着又会想要别的东西，对吧？这就是一种常见的循环。所以无论结果是快乐还是不快乐，这种感觉往往不会持久。不过，我并不是想轻描淡写地说赚钱或成功没有意义。事实上，赚钱的确很重要，因为金钱可以解决所有与钱有关的问题。所以，有钱是好事。

That said, there are those stories, I don't know if you've seen those studies. I don't know how real these are. A lot of these psych studies don't replicate, but it's a fun little study that shows that people who break their back and people who win the lottery are back to their baseline happiness two years later. Again, I don't know if this is entirely true. I think money can buy you happiness if you earned it. Because then along the way, you have both pride and confidence in yourself, and you have a sense of accomplishment, and you set out to do something and you were right. So I'll bet that lingers.

就像我说的，有一些故事。我不知道你有没有见过这些研究。我不确定这些研究有多真实。很多心理学研究无法重复验证，但有一个有趣的小研究表明，无论是背部受伤还是中彩票的人，两年后都会回到他们的基准幸福水平。不过，我不确定这是否完全正确。我认为，如果你通过努力赚钱，钱是可以带来幸福的。因为在这个过程中，你不仅对自己感到自豪和自信，还会有一种成就感，因为你设定了一个目标并实现了它。所以，我相信这种感觉会持续下去。

And then, as I said, money solves your money problems. So I don't want to be too glib about it, but I would say in general this loop that we runs through of desire dopamine, fulfillment, unfulfillment. You have to enjoy the journey. The journey is all there is. Right. 99% of your time is spent on the journey. So what kind of a journey is it if you're not going to enjoy it? How do you shortcut that desire contract? You could focus. You could decide that I don't want most things. I think we have a lot of unnecessary desires that we just pick up everywhere. We have opinions on everything, judgments on everything.

然后，正如我所说，金钱可以解决你的金钱问题。所以，我不想说得太轻松，但总体上，我会说我们生活中的这个循环：渴望、多巴胺、满足和不满足。你必须享受这个旅程。旅程本身就是一切，对吧？99%的时间都花在旅程中。如果你不享受，这将是什么样的旅程呢？你如何缩短这种欲望契约？你可以专注。你可以决定我不想要大多数东西。我认为我们有很多不必要的欲望，它们是我们从各处捡来的。我们对一切都有看法，对一切都有评判。

So I think just knowing that those are the source of unhappiness will make you be choosy about your desires. And frankly, if you want to be successful, you have to be choosy about your desires. You have to focus. You can't be granted everything. You can't be granted everything. You're just going to waste your energy and waste your time. Is fame a worthwhile goal? It gets you invited to better parties. It gets you to better restaurants. Fame. So fame is this funny thing where a lot of people know you, but you don't know them.

我认为，了解这些都是不快乐的根源，就会让我们在选择愿望时更加谨慎。坦白说，如果你想要成功，就必须对自己的欲望有所取舍。你得专注，因为你不可能得到一切。追求一切只会浪费你的精力和时间。名声是一个值得追求的目标吗？它可以让你被邀请去更好的派对和餐厅。但名声是个有趣的东西，很多人认识你，但你却不认识他们。

And it does get you put in the pedestal. It can get you what you want at a distance. So I wouldn't say it's worthless. Obviously, people want it for a reason. It's high status. So it attracts the opposite sex, especially for men and attracts women. That's it is high cost. It means you have no privacy. You do have weirdos and lunatics. You do get hit up a lot for weird things. And you're on a stage. So you're forced to perform. So you're forced to be consistent with your past proclamations and actions. And you're going to have haters and all that nonsense. But the fact that we do it, the fact that we all seem to want it means that it would be disingenuous to say, I don't know I'm famous, but you don't want to be famous.

这确实会让你被捧上神坛。它能让你从远处得到你想要的东西。因此，我不会说这毫无价值。显然，人们追求它是有原因的。它象征着高地位，所以它吸引异性，尤其对男性来说会吸引女性。但是，它也成本高昂，这意味着你没有隐私，还会遇到怪人和疯子，也经常会收到奇怪的请求。而且你随时都在舞台上，所以不得不表演，要不断与自己以往的言行保持一致。你还会面临仇恨和其他麻烦。然而，大家都在追求这一切，这说明如果说“我不知道自己出名了，但又不想出名”是虚伪的。

That said, I think fame, like anything else is best produced as a or pursued as a byproduct of something potentially more worthwhile. Wanting to be famous and craving to be famous and being famous for being famous. These are sort of traps. Famous times. Yeah, exactly. So it's better that it's earned fame. So for example, earn respect in the tribe is you do things that are good for the tribe. Who are the most famous people in human history? There are people who sort of transcended the self, the buddhas and the Jesus is in the Muhammad's of the world. Who else is famous? The artists are famous. You know, art class for a long time.

也就是说，我认为，“名声”就像其他任何东西，最好是作为某种更有价值的事情的副产品来产生或追求。而单纯渴望出名或因为出名而出名，这些都是一些陷阱。“出名的时代”，对，没错。所以，最好是通过努力获得的名声。例如，在一个部落中赢得尊重，你可以为部落做一些有益的事情。在人类历史上最著名的人物是谁？是那些超越自我的，比如佛陀、耶稣和穆罕默德等人。还有谁是著名的？艺术家们也很出名，他们的艺术作品经久不衰。

The scientists are famous. They discover thing. The conquerors are famous, presumably because they conquered for their tribe. There was someone that they were fighting for. So generally the higher up you rise by doing things for greater and greater groups of people, even though it may be considered tyrannical or negative, like a, you know, Jenga's con is famous, but to the Mongols, he was doing good to the rest of them, not so much. The higher level you're operating at, the more people you're taking care of, the more you sort of earn respect and fame. And I think those are good reasons to be famous. If, if fame is empty, if you're famous just because your name showed up in a lot of places or your face showed up in a lot of places, then that's a hollow fame. And I think deep down you will know that and so it'll be fragile and you'll always be afraid of losing it and then you'll be forced to perform.

科学家们很有名，他们发现了很多事物。征服者也很有名，可能是因为他们为自己的部落征服了土地。他们是为某些人而战。所以，通常来说，你为更大群体做的事情越多，就能获得更高的地位和更多的尊重与名声。即便这些行为可能被认为是专制或负面的，比如成吉思汗虽然在历史上很有名，但在蒙古人眼中，他是为他们做好事；虽然对其他人来说可能并非如此。你所处的层级越高，照顾的人越多，就越容易赢得尊重和名声。我认为，这样的名声才有意义。如果名声只是空洞浮华，仅仅因为你的名字或脸出现在许多地方，那就是一种空虚的名声。内心深处你会意识到这一点，所以这样的名声是脆弱的，你会时常害怕失去它，并被迫不断地表现自己。

So the kind of fame that pure actors and celebrities have, I wouldn't want, but the kind of fame that's earned because you did something useful. Why dodge that? Now you can't. There's a challenge, I think, especially if people make very loud public proclamations about things you mentioned there about you're almost a hostage to the things that you used to say that being able to update your opinions and change your mind, you look very similar to the internet as hypocrisy does. You know, the difference between me saying something in the past and saying something different now is perhaps I've learned, perhaps I've updated my beliefs, but so few people do it in a legitimate way.

所以，那种纯粹因为是演员或名人而获得的名声我不想要，但如果是因为做了有用的事情而得到的名声，为什么要回避呢？现在你已经不能回避了。我认为，尤其是如果人们公开大声宣称你提到的那些事情时，改变意见和思维的能力让你看起来和网络上的虚伪很相似。你知道，过去我说过一件事，现在说的是另一件事，这之间的区别可能在于我学到了新东西，或者更新了自己的信念，但很少有人以合乎情理的方式这么做。

I think that the grifter shale, you see this is the smoking gun that shows that he didn't really believe that thing all along. And yeah, I went to a retreat in LA a couple of years ago and there was a guy that I used to follow that a big business and productivity advice content creator really, really successful and he just totally stepped back from everything. Like monk mode and focused on his business. I asked him why and he said, I started feeling like I had to live up to and private the things that I was saying in public. Yeah, it's a what was it that who said it was a man can that of foolish consistency is a hubgoblin of little minds, right. But essentially, look, all life is all learning is error correction, right.

我认为骗子的伎俩在这里就是那个明确的证据，表明他从来没有真正相信过那件事。几年前，我去洛杉矶参加了一个静修活动，那时有一个我一直关注的人，他曾是一个非常成功的大型商业和生产力内容创作者，然后他完全淡出了公众视野，就像进入了修行模式，专注于自己的事业。我问他为什么这样做，他说他开始觉得自己在生活中也必须履行那些在公开场合发表的言论。还有人说过“一致性的愚蠢是小家子气的妖精”，但从本质上说，生活和学习就是不断纠正错误的过程。

Every knowledge creation system works through correcting errors, making guesses and correcting errors. So by definition, if you're learning, you're going to be wrong most of the time and you'll be updating your priors. And so, for example, I did this Joe Rogan podcast and I was like eight or nine years ago. And people will call out like the one thing that didn't turn out to be correct, right. And it's just like and they just beat on it because it helps them in their mind raise their status a little bit. Uh-huh, I caught him in an error. Well, I think if you catch someone in a blatant lie where there's believe one thing in this and other, that's legit. That's a character flaw. This shouldn't be lying. But on the other hand, if they just made a guess at something and they got it wrong.

每一个知识创造系统都通过纠正错误、做出猜想和再次纠正错误来运作。因此，从定义上来说，如果你在学习，你大多数时候都会出错，并且需要不断更新你的先前认知。例如，我大约在八九年前参加了一个乔·罗根的播客节目。有些人会挑出那次节目的一个错误并过分关注，因为这能让他们觉得自己地位提高了一点，比如他们找到了我的一个不足。然而，我认为如果你发现有人在信仰一事而表现出另一行为的明显谎言，那的确是一个性格缺陷，不应该撒谎。但如果他们只是对某件事做出了猜测，而那个猜测后来被证明是错误的，那就另当别论了。

And by the way, mostly it's about the AI, I think. And I think I'm still right about it with a different story. People who think we have achieved a G.I. just fell a touring test from their side. But it's funny how people latch on to single proclamations. But the reality is all of us are dynamical systems. We're always changing. We're always learning. We're always growing. And hopefully we're correcting errors. But you don't want to be doing is lying in public so that because you're trying to look good. And I think people can smell that. What this world really lacks right now is authenticity. And because everybody wants something. They want to be seen as something. They want to be something that they're not. And so you do catch a lot of people saying things that they don't really believe. And I think people are very sensitive to that. Bullshit Ray does have become hyposensitized to try and work out whether or not this person means the thing that they're saying.

顺便说一下，我认为这主要与人工智能有关。而且我仍然认为我在这个话题上的观点是正确的，只不过故事有所不同。那些认为我们已经实现通用人工智能（G.I.）的人，只是从他们自身角度未能通过图灵测试。有趣的是，人们总是执着于某些单一的宣言。但事实上，我们所有人都是动态的系统。我们总在变化、学习和成长，希望能纠正错误。但是你不应该在公众面前撒谎，只是为了给自己贴金。我认为人们能够察觉这一点。现在这个世界真正缺乏的是纯真，因为每个人都想要一些东西。人们想被看作某种人，或成为他们实际上不是的样子。因此，你会发现很多人说出一些他们并不真心相信的话。我认为人们对此非常敏感。我们已经对判断一个人说的话是否出自内心变得十分敏感。

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people are wrong. Most of us are wrong most of the time, especially in any new endeavor. Different string being wrong and disingenuous though. Corrupt is really wrong. Correct. Exactly. So I think that's the big difference. As someone is wrong, no big deal. As long as they have a genuine reason for saying what they're saying, believing what they're believing. But if they are lying to elevate their status or their appearance or to live up to some expectation, that's the mistake. And that's a mistake not just for the listener to mistake for themselves because then you're going to get trapped in the hall. There's you yourself are going to be consistent with your past proclamation. So if you're lying to others, you're going to be lying to yourself. You're puppeted by a person that you are not even.

是的。我觉得很多人都会犯错。大多数时候，我们在尝试新事物时都会犯错误。不过，犯错和不诚实是两回事。腐败是非常严重的错误，没错。我认为这就是最大的区别。有人犯错，没什么大不了的。只要他们说的话、相信的事情是出于真实的理由。但如果他们为了提升地位或形象，或者为了迎合某种期望而撒谎，那就是问题。这不仅是听者的误解，也会导致自己的错误，因为这样你就会被困在自己的谎言中。你自己也会被过去的谎言束缚住。如果你欺骗别人，你也会欺骗自己，就像被一个你并不真正是的人操纵一样。

That's right. Yeah. It's like what was that line? There's you're basically trying to impress people who don't care about you. So they don't like the real you. And if they saw the real you, they wouldn't care. And the people who would like the real you don't get to see the real you. So they pass you by. Right. You only want the respect of the very, very few people that you respect. Trying to demand respect from the masses is a fool's errand. Status games, the allure of accruing whether it's fame actual fame or just the competition comparison trap. It's always there. There's a real drawer of being swayed by social approval. How should people learn to get less distracted by status games in that way?

没错，是这样的。就像那个说法，你在试图取悦一些并不关心你的人，他们也不喜欢真实的你。如果他们了解真正的你，他们也不会在意。而那些会欣赏真正的你的人，却没有机会看到这个真实的你，所以他们会错过你。你只需要那些你尊重的人对你的尊重。试图从大众中获得尊重是徒劳无功的。地位游戏，无论是追求名声还是陷入竞争比较的陷阱，总是充满吸引力。社会认同的影响力很大。人们应该如何学习不被这种地位游戏所干扰呢？

I think it just helps to see that status games don't matter as much as they used to in old society. Let's go back hunter gather times. There was no such thing as wealth. You just had what you could carry. There was no stored wealth. So wealth games didn't really exist to wealth creation games. All that existed was status games. If you're a high status, then you got what little was available first. But even back then you had to earn your status by taking care of the tried. Now we have wealth creation where you can actually create a product or service. You can scale that product or service. You can provide abundance for a lot of people. And that's not zero sum. That's a positive sum game. I can be wealthy. You can be wealthy. You can create things together.

我认为，这有助于理解地位游戏在当今社会中不像过去那么重要。让我们回到狩猎采集时代。那时没有财富的概念。你只是拥有你能携带的东西，没有储存的财富。因此，财富游戏或者财富创造游戏并不存在。那时唯一存在的是地位游戏。如果你地位高，你就能优先获得有限的资源。但即便在那个时代，你也需要通过照顾部落来获得地位。现在，我们拥有财富创造机制，你可以真正创造产品或服务，可以扩大这些产品或服务的规模，能够为许多人提供丰富资源。这不是一个零和游戏，而是一个正和游戏。我可以变得富有，你也可以富有，大家可以一起创造东西。

And clearly since we are all collectively far, far wealthier than we were in hunter gatherer times, wealth creation is positive. But status is limited. There's limited status to go around. It's a ranking ladder to hierarchy. And so to rise in status somebody else has a lower in status. Now you can have multiple kinds of status. So you can expand some kinds of status. But it's not like wealth creation where you can go infinitely where we can all be living in the stars and moon bases or Mars colonies or what have you. So just realize the status games are inherently limited. They're always combative. They're always require direct combat.

很明显，我们现在的整体财富水平远远高于狩猎采集时代，因此财富创造是积极的。然而，地位却是有限的，大家只能共享有限的地位资源。地位就像阶层的排名梯子，要想提高地位，就意味着其他人地位会下降。虽然可以有多种类型的地位，因此可以扩展某些类型的地位，但这不同于财富创造，财富可以无限增长，比如我们都可以生活在星际基地、月球基地或火星殖民地等。因此，要意识到地位竞争本质上是有限的，总是充满竞争，需要直接对抗。

Whereas wealth creation games can be just you creating products. You don't have to fight anybody else. Yes. And the marketplace your product has to succeed. But that's not quite the same as Invective against other people are being angry with other people are feeling pushed down or pushed up or having a beef with somebody. So I would argue that wealth creation games are both more pleasant. They're positive sum. And they actually have concrete material returns. If you have more money, you can buy more. Show me what you can exchange your status at the bank. Exactly.

财富创造游戏可以只是你在创造产品。你不必与其他人争斗。是的，在市场上你的产品必须成功，但这与对他人发泄愤怒、感到被压制或抬高，或者与某人有矛盾并不完全相同。因此，我认为，财富创造游戏不仅更愉悦，它们是正和游戏，并且确实有实质性的物质回报。如果你拥有更多的钱，你就可以买到更多东西。你甚至可以在银行展示你的财富地位。

Yeah. It's vague and it's fuzzy. Now you see people get rich. They have money. What do they want? They want status. So they go to Hollywood start starting in movies. They don't it to nonprofits. They go to cans or devils or what have you. And they start trying to trade the money for status. So you know, people always want what they don't have. And we are evolutionarily hardwired for status because as I said, wealth creation didn't really exist until the agricultural revolution.

好的。这段话大意是这样的：是的，这种现象很模糊，也很不清楚。如今你会看到一些人变得富有，他们有了钱。那么他们想要什么呢？他们想要的是地位。所以有些人去好莱坞开始演电影，有些人把钱捐给非营利组织，还有人去参加康城电影节或其他类似的活动。他们开始试图用钱换取地位。所以，你知道，人们总是想要自己没有的东西。我们在进化过程中被硬性编程为追求地位，因为正如我所说的，在农业革命之前，财富的创造几乎不存在。

When you could store grain and then the industrial revolution took it to another level and not the information they just taking it to yet another level. But there's never been an easier time to make money. Yes, it's still hard. But there's never been easier time to create wealth because there's so much leverage out there. There's so much opportunity. You still have to go find it. It's not easy. It's not going to fall on your lap. And you have to learn something and know something and do something interesting.

当你可以储存粮食时，然后工业革命把它提升到了另一个层次，而现在的信息时代又把它带到了更高的层次。但是，现在创富的机会从未如此简单。虽然这仍然不容易，但由于有如此多的杠杆和机会，现在是创造财富最佳的时机。你仍然需要自己去寻找这些机会，并不是唾手可得的。你也需要学习一些新知识，了解一些事情，并做一些有趣的事情。

But nevertheless, it's possible to many more people. A few hundred years ago, your born to surf, you were going to die a surf. There was almost no way out of that. That's changed. And so I would argue that you're better off focusing on wealth games and status games. If you're trying to build up, for example, you're following on a social network and get famous and then get rich off of being famous.

尽管如此，现在有更多的人拥有这样的可能性。几百年前，如果你生来是农奴，那么你就注定是以农奴的身份死去，几乎没有改变的机会。但这种情况已经改变了。所以，我建议你更应该关注于财富游戏和地位游戏。举例来说，如果你想在社交网络上建立自己的追随者、变得有名，然后通过名气致富，这是一个值得考虑的方式。

That's a much harder path than getting rich first. And then go for your fame afterwards. It would be my advice. Well, a lot of people do that, as you said. It's funny how people who have achieved such a level of wealth, you don't think, why do you need the status given that most people use status to then try and cash into achieve wealth? If you've achieved fucking money already, if you're post money or asset heavy, as it's known, why are you trying to go in the other direction?

这条路比先致富然后再追求名声要难得多。这是我的建议。正如你所说，确实有很多人这样做。有趣的是，很多已经达到一定财富水平的人，你不禁想，既然大多数人利用地位来获取财富，你为什么还需要地位？如果你已经有足够的钱，或者说资产丰厚，为什么还要走向另一个方向呢？

Well, as you said, because we've got an illustrious history biologically of wanting status and wealth is kind of novel. It's new. The wealth is something that you have to understand more intellectually. Yeah, there's a physical component, more food, more survival. But to truly understand the effects and the powers and the abilities and limitations and the advantages and disadvantages of wealth, you have to use your neocortex a lot more.

正如你所说，从生物学的角度来看，我们对地位的渴望由来已久，而对财富的追求则相对新颖。财富是一种需要更多智力去理解的概念。虽然财富确实有物质层面的好处，比如更多的食物和更好的生存机会，但要真正明白财富带来的各种影响、力量、能力及其局限性，以及好处和坏处，你需要更多地运用大脑的新皮层来思考。

Does that mean it's not limbic? The reason to play the game is to win the game and be done with it is harder to win and be done with for status than it is for wealth. That's a good observation. I hadn't thought that through, but you're right. Yeah, I think that's right. I think people will always want more status, but I think you can be satisfied at a certain level of wealth.

这是否意味着这与边缘系统无关？玩游戏的原因是为了赢得游戏并完成这个目标，而要为了地位而赢并完成这个目标，比为了财富更难。这是一个很好的观察。我之前还没想过这一点，但你说得对。是的，我认为这是对的。我觉得人们总是会想要更多的地位，但在财富达到某个水平时是可以满足的。

Well, as well, you always have this sort of sense. This is what leaderboards are. This is the right item where it's billboard charts. And it is zero sum. And it is, I guess, you know, the Forbes richest people on the planet. Yeah, that was harder to climb the ladder one. But the fact that, for example, iTunes and YouTube can put you in competition against your contemporaries every single day and make you go up and down and show you likes and comments and ratings.

好的，总是有一种这样的感觉。这就是排行榜的意义所在。这就像是公告牌排行榜，是一种零和游戏。我猜这就像是福布斯全球富豪榜。是的，那是一个更难攀登的阶梯。但事实上，比如iTunes和YouTube，每天都能让你与同时代的人竞争，让你上下波动，并展示点赞、评论和评分。

This is how much you sell this. This is how much you're up. Yeah, exactly. They'll keep you running on that treadmill forever. Jimmy Car has this cool idea where he says projectory is more important than position. So if you are number 101 in the world, but last year you were number 200 versus your number two in the world, but last year you were number one.

这就是你卖这个东西的价格，这就是你的收益。是的，没错。他们会让你一直在这个"跑步机"上奔跑。Jimmy Carr有一个很有趣的观点，他说发展趋势比当前位置更重要。比如说，如果你在世界排名第101位，但去年是第200位，这比你是世界第二，但去年是第一位，要更有意义。

There is this sense of the deceleration is very, very tangible. And it's why again, it goes back to evolution, you know, something that is bleeding eventually dies unless you stop the bleeding. So you're, you're hardwired not to lose what you have. And because we evolved in conditions where we're so close to just not surviving. You don't want to give anything up.

有一种感觉，减速是非常明显的。这就像进化一样，如果你不停止流血，流血的东西最终会死去。所以，你本能地不想失去已经拥有的东西。因为我们是在几乎无法生存的环境中进化过来的，因此我们不愿放弃任何东西。

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The worst outcome in the world is not having self esteem. Why? Yeah, it's a tough one. I look at the people and I don't want to offend anybody, but I look at the people who don't like themselves. And that's the toughest slot because they're always wrestling with themselves. And it's hard enough to face the outside world. And no one's going to like you more than you like yourself. So if you're struggling with yourself, then the outside world becomes an insurmountable challenge.

世界上最糟糕的结果是没有自尊。为什么？这确实是个艰难的问题。我观察那些不喜欢自己的人，我不想冒犯任何人，但确实，这种情况是最困难的。因为他们总是在和自己较劲，面对外界已经够不容易的了。没有人会比你自己更喜欢你自己。所以，如果你和自己过不去，那么外面的世界就会变成一个无法跨越的挑战。

And it's hard to say why people have low self esteem. It might be genetic. It might just be circumstantial. A lot of times I think it's because they just weren't unconditionally loved as a child. And that sort of seeps in at a deep core level. But self esteem issues can be the most limiting. One interesting thought is that, you know, to some extent, self esteem is a reputation you have with yourself. You're watching yourself at all times. You know what you're doing.

很难说人们为什么会有低自尊。这可能是遗传原因，也可能只是环境因素。我常常认为，这在很大程度上是因为他们小时候没有得到无条件的爱，这种影响会深入到内心深处。但自尊问题可能是最具局限性的。一个有趣的观点是，在某种程度上，自尊就像是你对自己的声誉。你一直在观察自己，知道自己在做什么。

And you have your own moral code. Everyone has a different moral code. But if you don't live up to your own moral code, the same code that you hold others to, it will damage your self esteem. So perhaps one way to build up your self esteem is to live up to your own code very rigorously. Have one and then live up to it. Another way to raise your self esteem might be to do things for others. If I look back on my life and, you know, what are the moments that I'm actually proud of?

每个人都有自己的道德准则，每个人的道德标准都不同。但是，如果你没有遵循自己的道德准则，而这种准则也是你用来要求他人的标准，那么这将损害你的自尊。因此，也许提高自尊的一种方法是严格遵循自己的准则。你需要建立一个准则，并坚守它。另外一种提升自尊的方法可能是为他人做一些事情。当我回顾自己的人生时，我会思考，哪些时刻让我感到真正自豪？

There's very far and few between. And it's not that often. It's not the things you would expect. It's not the material success. It's not having learned this thing or that. It's when I made a sacrifice for someone with the or something that I loved. And that's when I'm actually ironically most proud. Now that's through an explicit mental exercise. But I'll bet you at some level. I'm recording that implicitly. So that tells me that even if I am not being loved and the way to create love is to give love to express love through sacrifice and through duty.

很少会遇到这种情况。这并不是常见的事，也不是你会预料到的。它不是物质上的成功，也不是学到了某个知识或技能。而是当我为我爱的人或事物做出牺牲时，我其实正感到无比自豪。虽然这是一种明确的心理锻炼，但我相信在某种程度上，我是下意识地记录了这些。所以这让我明白，即使我没有被爱，创造爱的方式是通过牺牲和责任去给予爱和表达爱。

And so I think doing things like that can build up your self esteem really fast. It's interesting when you talk about sacrifice because a lot of the time people say, I sacrifice so much for my job. It's like, yeah, but that was you sacrificing something that you wanted less for something that you wanted more as opposed to genuinely taking some sort of cost. And yeah, I wonder whether if self esteem is you adhering to your internal your actions and your values aligning even when it's difficult or perhaps even more so when it's difficult.

我认为，做这样的事情可以很快地提升自尊心。当你谈到牺牲时，这很有趣，因为很多人常说，我为我的工作牺牲了很多。其实，真正的情况是，你只是为了追求自己更想要的东西，而放弃了相对不那么想要的东西，并不是在面对真正的损失。我也在想，是不是自尊心的来源在于，即使在困难的时候，你的行动和内心的价值观依然保持一致，也许在困难的时候，这种一致性显得更加重要。

I wonder whether there is a price that people who are more introspective high integrity pay because you think, well, you've got this. Have you set above the hoods that you need to pay in some way? Well, if being ethical, we're profitable. Everybody would do it. Right? So at some level, it does involve a sacrifice. But that sacrifice can also be thought of as you're thinking for the long term rather than the short term. For example, the virtues are the set of the virtues of the set of beliefs that everybody in society followed them as individuals.

我在想，那些更具有内省和高度正直的人是否要付出某种代价，因为你会认为自己已经拥有了这些品质。是否有一些隐性的成本需要支付？要知道，如果道德和伦理行为能带来直接的收益，人人都会选择这么做，对吧？所以，从某种程度上来说，它确实需要做出牺牲。不过，这种牺牲也可以被视为对长远利益的考量，而不是只计算短期得失。比如说，如果我们每个人都遵循社会普遍认同的一套美德和信念。

It would lead to win-win outcomes for everybody. So if I am honest and you are honest, then we can do business more easily. We can interact more easily because we can trust each other. So even though there might be a few liars in the system, as long as there aren't too many liars and too many cheaters, a high-trust society where everybody's honest is better off. And I think a lot of the virtues work this way.

这将为每个人带来双赢的结果。因此，如果我诚实，而你也诚实，那么我们就可以更容易地进行生意往来。我们可以更容易地互动，因为我们彼此信任。即便系统中可能会有少数说谎者，只要说谎者和作弊者不太多，一个人人诚实、高信任的社会会更好。我认为很多美德都是这样运作的。

Right? If I don't go around sleeping with your wife and you don't sleep with mine and you know, if I don't take all the food as at the table first and so on, then we all get along better and we can play win-win games. In game theory, the most famous game is Prisoner's Dilemma, but that's all about everybody cheating and the Nash equilibrium. The stable equilibrium, there is everybody cheats. And the only way you can play a win-win game is if you have long-term iterated moves. But that's not actually the most common game played in society.

好的？如果我不去和你的妻子发生关系，你也不和我的妻子发生关系，你知道，如果我不先把桌上的食物都拿走等等，那么我们就会相处得更好，而且我们可以进行双赢的游戏。在博弈论中，最著名的游戏是囚徒困境，但那是关于每个人都在作弊和纳什均衡的。稳定的均衡是每个人都作弊。你要想玩双赢游戏，前提是有长期的互动。但这实际上并不是社会中最常见的游戏。

The most common game played is one called a Stags Hunt, where if we cooperate, we can bring down a big stag and both have big dinners, but if we don't cooperate, then we have to go hunt rabbits and we each have small dinners. So most of, and that game has two stable equilibrium and one could be where we're both hunting the rabbit and one could be where we're hunting the stag.

最常见的一种游戏叫做“围猎雄鹿”。在这个游戏中，如果我们合作，就可以猎捕到一头大雄鹿，然后一起享用丰盛的晚餐；但如果我们不合作，就只能各自去猎捕兔子，只能吃一顿简单的晚餐。所以，这个游戏有两个稳定的结果，一种是我们都去猎捕兔子，另一种是我们合作猎捕雄鹿。

So the high-trust society is a more, more virtuous society where I can trust you to come hunt the stag with me and show up on time and do the work and divide it up properly. So you want to live in a system where everybody has their own set of virtues and follows them and then we all win. But I would argue you don't need to do that for sacrifice. You don't need to do that for other people. You can do it just purely for yourself. You will have higher self-esteem. You will attract other high virtue people. I go on a stag hunt with me. Correct. Yeah, that's right. And if you're the kind of person who long-term signals ethics and virtues, then you will attract other people who are ethical and virtuous.

所以，一个高信任度的社会是一个更有德行的社会。在这个社会中，我可以信任你会按时来和我一起打猎，做好工作，并公平分配成果。因此，理想的社会体系是每个人都有自己的一套美德，并且都遵从这些美德，那么我们就都能受益。但我认为，你不必为了牺牲自己或为了他人而这样做，你完全可以为自己这样做。这样你会拥有更高的自尊，也会吸引到其他有高尚品德的人。如果你长期展示出道德和美德的信号，那么你就会吸引到其他同样有道德、有美德的人。

Whereas if you are a shark, you will eventually find yourself swimming entirely amongst sharks and that's an unpleasant existence. But again, this goes back to the equivalent of the marshmallow test. And by the way, the marshmallow test does not replicate. I just think that it got a notification crisis. Of hard, recently. But it is about trading off the short term for the long term. And so I think for a lot of these so-called virtues, there are long-term selfish reasons to be virtuous.

如果你是鲨鱼，最终会发现自己生活在一群鲨鱼中间，那将是种不愉快的生活。然而，这就像棉花糖测试的情况。（顺便说一下，棉花糖测试的实验结果没有被复制成功。但我认为，这个测试最近因为硬性条件而受到质疑。）这其实就是关于在短期和长期之间做出取舍。因此，我认为对于这些所谓的美德，有一些长期自私的理由去保持美德。

Yeah. Did you deal with self-doubt in the past? Is that something that was a hurdle-feet overcome? Yes, and no. I think I dealt with self-doubt in the sense that, oh, I don't know what I'm doing and need to figure it out. But I didn't doubt myself in the way of somebody else and that was better than me for me or that, you know, I'm an idiot or I'm not worthwhile or anything that. I guess I had the benefit of I grew up with a lot of love. Like the people around me love me unconditionally. And so that just gave me a lot of confidence. Not the kind of confidence that would say I have the answer. But the kind of confidence that I will figure it out and I know what I want.

是的。你以前有过自我怀疑吗？这是否曾是一个需要克服的障碍？可以说有，也可以说没有。我想我以前确实经历过那种“我不知道自己在做什么，需要找出答案”的自我怀疑。但是，我从未怀疑自己不如别人，更没有觉得自己是个笨蛋或没有价值。我觉得我生长在一个充满爱的环境中，这带给我很大的信心。不是那种声称自己有所有答案的信心，而是相信自己能找到答案，并明确知道自己想要什么的信心。

Or only I am a good arbiter of what I want. Yeah, that level of self-belief, I suppose, allows you to determine what is it that matters to me. So, my self-esteem, should I chase this thing or not, I can make a fair judgment on that as opposed to being so sweet. But it's such a good point about even if you think you're not consciously logging the stuff that you're doing. In the back of your mind, was it the Damon? Is that what the ancient Greeks or something used to talk about?

只有我才能很好地判断我想要什么。是的，我想这种程度的自信让我更清楚地知道什么对我来说是重要的。所以，关于我的自尊心，我是否应该追求某个东西，我能够做出公正的判断，而不是人云亦云。你提到的那个观点很好，即使你认为自己并没有在有意识地记录自己所做的事情。在你潜意识的背后，是否是古希腊人所说的那个“守护灵”在影响呢？

Yeah, also in computer science, there's a concept of a Damon which is a program that's always running in the background. You can't see it. But yeah, it probably comes from the ancient Greek Damon. But yeah, what you know that you don't even know you know is far greater than what you know you know. Right? You can't even articulate most of the things you know. There are feelings you have that have no words for them. There are thoughts you have that are felt within the body or subconsciously that you never articulate to yourself. You don't really you can't articulate the rules of grammar yet you exercise them effortlessly when you speak.

好的，在计算机科学中，有一个“守护进程”的概念，这是一种一直在后台运行的程序。你看不到它，但它可能确实来源于古希腊的“Damon”一词。不过，你无意识中知道的东西往往远超过你有意识知道的，对吧？其实你无法用语言表达你所知道的大多数事情。有些感觉是没有词汇能描述的，有些想法是在身体或潜意识中感受到的，但从未对自己表达出来。你可能不了解语法规则，但在说话时却能轻松运用。

So, I would argue that you're implicit knowledge and your knowledge that is unknown to yourself is far greater than the knowledge you can articulate and that you can communicate. And so at some level you're always watching yourself. That's what your consciousness is. It's the thing that's watching everything including your mind including your body. So, if you want to have a high self esteem then earn your own self respect. I had this idea the internal golden rule. So the golden rule says treat others the way that you should be treated. You want to be treated.

所以，我认为你的内隐知识和你自己不知道的知识要比你能说清楚和传达的知识多得多。在某种程度上，你总是在观察自己，这就是你的意识。意识是观察一切的东西，包括你的思想和身体。所以，如果你想有高度的自尊，那么就要赢得自己的自我尊重。我有一个想法，称之为内部的黄金法则。传统的黄金法则是说，待人如你所希望被对待的那样。

The internal golden rule says treat yourself like others should have treated you and it was a repost to maybe people that didn't grow up with unconditional love in that way. On the love thing one of the interesting things about love is you can try to remember the feeling of being loved. So go back to when someone was in love with you or someone did love you and like really you remember that feeling like really sit with it and try to recreate it within yourself.

内部的黄金法则是：要像别人应该对待你那样对待自己。这是给那些可能在成长过程中没有感受到无条件关爱的人的一种回应。关于爱的一个有趣点是，你可以试着回忆被爱的感觉。回到某个爱过你或正在爱你的人身边，真的回忆起那种感觉，认真感受并尝试在自己内心重现它。

And then go to the feeling of you loving someone and when you were in love and I'm not even talking about romantic love necessarily so be a little careful there. I'm talking more about love for it sometimes get complex if you're talking about past romantic love right a sibling or a child or something like that or a parent and think about when you felt love towards someone or something. And now which is better. And I would argue that the feeling of being in love is actually more exhilarating.

然后想一想你爱一个人时的感觉和当你陷入爱河时的感觉，我这里并不只是在谈论浪漫的爱情，所以在这一点上要稍微谨慎一些。我的意思更多是指那种可能会变得复杂的不是浪漫爱情的爱，比如对兄弟姐妹、孩子或父母的爱。回想一下你对某人或某事感到爱的时刻。现在来对比一下哪种感觉更好。我认为，坠入爱河的感觉实际上更加令人振奋。

The feeling of being loved being loved is a little coin. It's a little too sweet you kind of want to push the person away. It's a little embarrassing and you know that if that person is too much into it that you feel constrained on the other hand the feeling of being in love is very expensive. It's very open it actually makes you a better version of yourself. It makes you want to be a better person. And so you can create love anytime you want. It's just that craving to receive it. That's the problem. The most expensive trait is pride. That was a recent one. I tweeted that just because I think that pride is the enemy of learning so when I look at my friends and colleagues the ones who are still stuck in the past and have grown the least are the ones who were the proudest because they sort of feel like they already had the answers and so they don't want to correct themselves publicly.

被爱的感觉就像一枚小硬币。它有点过于甜美，让你有点想推开对方。这种感觉有点尴尬，你知道如果那个人太投入，你会感到受束缚。另一方面，恋爱的感觉是非常昂贵的。它非常开放，实际上会让你成为更好的自己，让你想要成为更优秀的人。因此，你可以随时创造爱，只是那种渴望接受爱的需求才是问题所在。最昂贵的品质是骄傲。我最近发了一条推文，因为我认为骄傲是学习的敌人。当我观察我的朋友和同事时，那些仍然停留在过去、进步最少的人通常是最自负的，因为他们觉得自己已经有了答案，所以不愿意公开纠正自己。

And so this goes back to the fame conversation you get locked into something you said it made you famous you're known for that now you want to pivot or change. So pride prevents you from saying I'm wrong. What's pride in this context? It could be as simple as you're trading stocks and then you don't admit you were wrong so you hang on to a lousy trade. It could be that you made a decision to you know marry someone or move somewhere or enter a profession. It doesn't work out and then you don't admit that you were wrong so you get stuck in it. It's mostly about getting trapped in local maxima as opposed to going back down and climbing up the mountain again. And that's why it's an expensive trait because you continue to need to repay it in one form or another.

这段话讨论了与名声相关的一个问题：当你因某件事而出名后，你就被这个标签锁定了。但如果你希望转型或改变，骄傲会阻止你说“我错了”。这里的“骄傲”是什么意思呢？可以是简单如股票交易时不愿承认自己的错误，于是固守在一个糟糕的交易中。也可以是在结婚、搬家或选择职业时做出了一个错误的决定，但因为不愿面对错误而被卡在一个不理想的状态中。主要的问题是在于你被困在了一个短期的最优状态中，而不愿意下山再次攀登高峰。这就是为什么这种性格代价高昂，因为你不得不继续以某种形式为此“买单”。

Yeah you're just stuck at a sub optimal point. It's going to cost you money. It's going to cost you success and time and time. The great artists always have this ability to start over whether it's Paul Simon or Madonna or YouTube and I'm dating myself a little bit. But even the great entrepreneurs they're just always willing to start over. I'm always struck by the Elon Musk story where you know he did paypal as x.com originally actually goes his financial institution that got merged into paypal. It's good that you've got the domain. You know what I mean? Yeah exactly. I'll just I'll talk that I'll hold onto it. He's consistent. He's been using it for quite a while.

你现在正处于一个次优点，这将让你付出金钱、成功和时间的代价。伟大的艺术家总是有能力重新开始，比如保罗·西蒙、麦当娜或U2（我提到这些人可能有些暴露我的年龄）。即使是伟大的企业家也总是愿意重新开始。让我印象深刻的是埃隆·马斯克的故事，他最初创立了x.com作为一家金融机构，之后与PayPal合并。很庆幸他保留了这个域名，你明白我的意思吧？是的，没错，我会把它牢牢抓住。他一直以来都很有坚持力。

And he said something like along the lines of I made $200 million on the sale of paypal. I put $100 million in the space X it even test led to winning the solar city and I had to borrow money for rent. Right. This guy as a perennial risk taker. He's always willing to start over. He doesn't have any pride about being seen as successful as being seen as a failure. He's willing to put it all back himself again each day back himself again each time. But the key thing is he's always willing to start over right even now when he's sort of made his his new startup is a USA right he's basically trying to fix it like he would fix one of his startups.

他说了类似的话：“我从出售PayPal中赚了2亿美元，其中1亿美元投入到了SpaceX，甚至还测试并最终赢得了SolarCity，但我不得不借钱支付房租。” 这个人永远是个冒险家，愿意重新开始。他不在乎别人怎么看他，无论是成功还是失败。每次他都愿意重新投入全部精力。关键是，他总是愿意重新开始。即使现在，他创立了一个新的初创公司USA，也基本上是像修复一个自己的初创公司那样去努力改进。

And I think that is a willingness to look like a fool and that is a willingness to start over and a lot of people just don't have that they become successful they become rich or they become famous and that's it. They're stuck they don't want to go back to zero and creating anything great requires zero to one and that means you go back to zero and that's really painful and hard to do talking about risk something I've been thinking about a lot to do with you. Any moment when you're not having a good time when you're not really happy you're not doing anyone any favors and lots of people have become unusually familiar with suffering silently in that sort of a way not having a high bar for your expectation for quality of life.

我认为，这需要一种愿意看起来像傻瓜的意愿，也需要一种重新开始的勇气。很多人没有这样的意愿，一旦成功、有钱或出名后，他们就停滞不前，不愿意回到起点。然而，创造伟大的东西需要从零到一的过程，这意味着要重新开始，而这确实非常痛苦和困难。这让我想到风险：当你没有过得开心或不快乐时，其实没有真正帮助到任何人。许多人已经习惯于默默忍受痛苦，没有对生活质量抱有很高的期望。

Yeah a lot of is just you're meaming yourself into a bad outcome because you think that somehow suffering is glorious or that it makes you a better person or you know my old quit was if you're so smart why aren't you happy. Why can't you figure that one out the realities you can be smart happy there are plenty of people in human history who are smart happy. And I think it just starts with saying yeah you know what I'm gonna be happy it was a guy that I'm in Thailand a long time ago and used to work for Tony Robbins you know he agreed attitude.

是的，很多时候是因为你自己让自己走向糟糕的结果，因为你觉得痛苦是荣耀的，或者觉得痛苦会让你变得更好。就像我以前常说的，如果你真的那么聪明，为什么不快乐？为什么不能想清楚这个问题？事实上，你可以既聪明又快乐，历史上有很多这样的人。而我认为这从一种态度开始，就是对自己说，你知道吗，我会快乐。很久以前我在泰国遇到过一个人，他曾为托尼·罗宾斯工作，他就很赞同这种态度。

And we were sitting around and he said you know he said I realize one day that someone out there had to be the happiest person in the world like that person just has to exist he said why not me i'll take on that burden i'll be that guy and I heard that I was like wow that's pretty good that's a good frame but he knew how to reframe things. So I think a lot of happiness is just a choice in the sense that you may first you just identify yourself as actually I'm going to be a person that's going to be happy I want to figure it out and you just figure it out along the way you're not going to lose your other predilections you're not going to lose your ambition or desire for success.

我们坐在那里，他说，你知道吗，他有一天意识到，世界上一定有一个最快乐的人，这样的人必定存在。他说，为什么不能是我呢？我来承担这个“负担”，我来做这个人。我听到他说时，心想，哇，这真不错，是个不错的思维方式。他知道如何重新定义事情。所以我认为很大程度上幸福是一种选择。在这个意义上，首先你要认定自己是一个要快乐的人，我要弄明白怎么做到，然后在这个过程中找到方法。你不会失去你其他的偏好，也不会失去对成功的野心或渴望。

I think a lot of people have this fear that if I'm happy then I won't want to be successful. No, you just want to do things that are more aligned with the happy version of you and you'll be successful at those things. Believe me, the happy version of you's not going to look back at the unhappy version and say, oh man, that guy was going to be more successful. That guy was going to have more success, I wish that was him. You're actually trying to be successful so you'll be happy. Oh, that's the whole point. You've gotten it backwards. You unlocked one of my trap cards. One of my favorite insights is that we sacrifice the thing we want for the thing that's supposed to get it. So we sacrifice happiness in order to be successful so that when we're finally sufficiently successful we can actually be happy.

我觉得很多人有这样的担心：如果我感到幸福，我就不会想追求成功。其实不是这样的。你只是更希望做一些与你快乐状态相符合的事情，而你在这些事情上会更容易取得成功。相信我，那个快乐的你不会回头看不快乐的自己，然后感叹说：“哦，那个人本来会更成功的。”实际上，你是在努力成功以便获得幸福。整件事情的关键在于此，你弄反了顺序。你揭开了我设置的一个陷阱。我最喜欢的一种见解是，我们常常为了得到想要的东西而舍弃它本身。换句话说，我们牺牲幸福去追求成功，希望当足够成功时，才能最终获得幸福。

If you have some sort of simultaneous equation you just sort of stripped success off from both sides. At least in my own life, I have not found it to be a trade off. If anything, I have found that the happier I get, the more I am going to do the things that I'm good at and aligned with, and that will make me even happier. And so I actually end up more successful, not less. The aligned with thing is interesting. I'm going to try and put this across as delicately as I can. I would say from the bit of time that we've spent together, you have a really interesting trait of holistic selfishness. You're sort of prepared to put yourself first. You seem largely unfazed by saying or doing things that might result in other people feeling a little bit awkward if it's truthful for you. It's like an apologetically self-prioritizing I guess.

如果把成功看作是一种方程式，你可以从中抽离出一些东西。在我个人的生活中，我并不认为这是一个需要权衡的事情。事实上，我发现自己越快乐，就越会去做那些我擅长并与自身价值观一致的事情，这让我更加快乐。因此，我的成功反而更多，而不是更少。关于价值观一致这件事很有趣，我会尽量委婉地表达。从我们一起度过的时光来看，我认为你有一个非常有趣的特质，就是一种全局性的自我优先。你似乎愿意把自己放在首位，并且大多不在意说或做一些可能让别人感到尴尬但对你而言真实的话。这种行为就像一种毫不犹豫的自我优先。

Yeah, I think everybody is. Maybe an apologetic is the part that's relatively rare. But I think everybody puts themselves first. That's just human nature. You're here because you survive your separate organism. That's interesting. I'm maybe, but I know we like to virtue signal or pretend we're doing it for each other. How many times does somebody say, yeah, of course I'd love to come to the wedding, but they're like, I don't want to be at the fucking wedding? How many times does someone say, how are you doing today? They don't tell you. I don't go to weddings. But this is my point. So I don't think you're necessarily right with that. I think that people do. I don't think they put themselves first. I sometimes think that they compromise what it is that they want in order to appease socially what's in front of them.

是的，我认为每个人都会这样。也许少见的是那些愿意道歉的人。但是，我认为每个人都会把自己放在第一位，这是人的天性。你存在是因为你作为一个独立的个体生存下来。这很有趣。也许吧，但我知道我们喜欢作出表面上的美德，或者假装是为了彼此而做事情。有多少次有人说，"当然啦，我很乐意参加婚礼"，但心里却想着"我才不想去那个该死的婚礼"？有多少次有人问你今天过得怎么样，但其实他们并不在意你的回答。我不去婚礼，但这就是我的观点。所以我并不认为你完全正确。我认为人们并不总是把自己放在第一位。有时候，我觉得他们会为了迎合眼前的社会需求而妥协自己的愿望。

Yeah, I just view it as your waste. Everyone's wasting their time on it. Don't do something you don't want to do. Why are you wasting your time? There's so little time on this earth. Life goes fast. What are the 4,000 weeks that's your lifespan? And yes, we hear that, but we don't remember it. But I guess I'm keenly aware of how little time I have. So I'm just not going to waste it. How have you got more comfortable at being the unapologetic, self-prioritizer? Yeah, I've gotten, I've gotten, I've gotten utterly more and more ruthless on it. Mainly it's that I see or hear people's freedom, and then that liberates me further.

是的，我只是认为这是你的浪费。每个人都在浪费时间在这上面。不要做你不想做的事情。你为什么要浪费时间呢？在这个世界上的时间是有限的，生命很短暂。人的一生就大约是4000个星期，是啊，我们都听说过这句话，但却很少去记住它。不过我想我对自己时间的有限性非常清楚。所以我绝不会浪费时间。你是如何更自如地变得无所畏惧地更看重自己的？是的，我变得越来越无情。主要是因为我看到或听到人们的自由，这反而让我更解放。

So I read a blog post by P Marka, aka Mark Andreessen, where he said, don't keep a schedule. And I took that to heart. So I deleted my calendar and I don't keep a schedule. I try to remember it all in my head. If I can't remember it, I'm not going to add a schedule. I'm glad you got your time. Yeah, exactly. I had to look things up at the last minute. So, but ironically, I don't even know if Mark himself follows that. But he made the correct point. I read a little story about Jack Dorsey doing all his business off his iPhone and iPad and not even going into a Mac, and I said, okay, I want to do that. So I'm going to operate through text messaging and I put up my nasty email.

我读了一篇由P Marka（也就是马克·安德森）写的博客文章，他说不要安排时间表。我对此深有感触，所以我删掉了我的日程表，不再设定计划。我努力把所有事情记在脑子里。如果我记不住，那我就不加计划。我很高兴你有时间，是的，没错。我常常在最后一刻才去查找信息。有趣的是，我甚至不知道马克自己是否遵循这个原则，但他的观点是正确的。我还读过关于杰克·多尔西的一个小故事，说他用iPhone和iPad处理所有业务，从不使用Mac。我想，我也想这么做。所以我打算通过短信来操作，并清理了我那些烦人的电子邮件。

Is that more freedom? It does, yeah, because you're on the go. So I have a nasty email autoresponder that says, I don't check email and don’t text me either. If you need to find me, you'll find me. Obviously, some of this is a luxury of success. But some of these habits I adopted long before actually, the hostile email autoresponder started a long time ago. I used to own the domain. I let it go. Don't do coffee. I don't do coffee.com. I used to reply from that email just so people would get the point. But it's not being rude about it. Now, I just go, I just disappear. My wife knows not to ever book or schedule me for anything. I'm not expected to go to couples dinners. I'm not expected to go to birthdays and I expect to go to weddings.

这是否意味着更多自由？确实是的，因为你可以随时行动。我设置了一个不太友好的自动回复邮件，表示我不查看电子邮件，也不要给我发短信。如果你需要找我，总会找到我的。当然，这种做法有些是成功带来的特权。但有些习惯是我很早就养成的，比如这个强硬的自动回复邮件已经用很久了。我曾经拥有一个域名，后来不再用了，叫做“我不喝咖啡”，我用这个邮件地址回复别人，只是为了让他们明白我的意思。但这并不是出于无礼。现在，我更倾向于突然消失。我的妻子知道永远不要给我安排任何日程。我不需要去夫妻聚餐，不需要参加生日，也不需要去婚礼。

If somebody tries to rope her into having me show up, she says he makes his own decisions. You got to ask him directly. What about vice versa? Well, you're not killing serendipity in a way that I'm freeing up all my time. So my entire life is serendipity. I get to interact with whoever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want. So you hear the invite, but make the decision? Because if there's fewer things in coming, you're assuming that you know what's best for you. I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck. Okay, if that thing is interesting, I'll see if I can get in that day when I'm in the mood.

如果有人试图让她帮忙说服我出席，她会说他有自己的决定。你得直接问他。那反过来呢？嗯，你没有扼杀随机性，我正在腾出所有的时间。我的整个生活就是随机的。我可以随时随地与任何人互动。那么，你会听到邀请，然后自己决定吗？因为如果事情变少了，你就假设你知道什么对自己最好。我才不在乎。我才不在乎。我才不在乎。好吧，如果某件事情有趣，我会看看自己当天是否有心情参加。

But there's nothing worse than something coming up that your past self committed to. It's not for yourself. It doesn't want to do a dumbit-pastival. Yeah, and then it destroys your entire calendar. It destroys your day because there's like, oh, this is one hour slot, which is sitting like a turd on my calendar that I have to schedule my whole day around. I can't do anything at 20 minutes before or the 20 minutes afterwards. Even for phone calls, if someone wants to do a phone call, say, okay, just text me when you're free. I'll text you when I'm free and we'll just do it on the fly. It's a much better way of living than this over-scheduled, you know, cal.com or I-cal, whatever.

但是，没有什么比过去的自己承诺的事情更让人讨厌的了。这不是为自己而做的事情，也不愿意做那些过去承诺的蠢事。是的，它毁掉了你的整个日程。它毁掉了你的一天，因为日程上有一个小时的时间像个麻烦一样卡在那里，你不得不围绕它安排你整天的活动。甚至连在这前后20分钟里都不能安排任何事情。即使是打电话，如果有人想打电话，我会建议他们随时发短信给我，等我有空的时候再回复，这样随意安排要比过度安排计划好得多，比那种总是要用cal.com或I-cal安排一切的生活方式要好得多。

What is that? The over-scheduled life is not worth living. It's not, I think it's a terrible way to live life. That's not how we evolve. It's not how we grew up. It's not how we were as children, hopefully, unless you have a helicopter parent or a Tiger Mom. Your natural order is freedom. I had a friend who said to me once, you know, I never want to have to be at a specific place at a specific time. I was like, oh my God, that's freedom. When I heard that, it changed my life right there. You still alarm clockless? Yes, I'm alarm clockless. Today I did set my alarm clock just so I wouldn't miss a lot.

那是什么？过度安排的生活是不值得过的。我觉得那是一种非常糟糕的生活方式。这不是我们进化的方式，也不是我们长大的方式。这并不是我们小时候的样子，希望如此，除非你有一个直升机父母或虎妈。你天生就应该拥有自由。我有一个朋友曾经对我说，他希望不需要在特定的时间去特定的地点。我当时心想，天哪，那就是自由。当我听到这句话时，它彻底改变了我的生活。你现在还不用闹钟吗？是的，我不用闹钟。今天我特意设了个闹钟，以免错过重要的事情。

But just so you know, I set the alarm clock from 11 a.m. In case I was stricken with a flu, I was going to set my alarm clock for 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. And sure enough, I got up many hours before that. But it was sort of a backup emergency alarm. In fact, sometimes when I have something that I need to do, I don't want to look at a calendar. So I'll just set an alarm for it. Just sink a little bit more into that, that kind of that fuck you energy, that self-prioritizing energy. Because I think people rationally love the idea of this.

不过，我还是想让你知道，我把闹钟设在上午11点。万一我得了流感，我原本打算把闹钟设在上午8点或9点。结果，我比预定时间早了好几个小时起床。不过这也算是个备用的紧急闹钟。事实上，有时候当我有必须要做的事情时，我不想查看日历，所以我只会为此设个闹钟。可以更深入地体会那种“随心所欲”、以自我为中心的态度。我觉得人们理性上都喜欢这个想法。

I'm going to do what only I want to do. Even if they've got the level of freedom, it's not a fuck you energy in the sense that I think everyone should live their life that way to the greatest extent possible. Obviously, we have our requirements around work and obligations that are genuinely important to us. But don't fit your way of life on randomly scheduled things and things that are important. Don't matter and events and weddings and, you know, tedious dinners with tedious people that you don't want to go to. To the extent you can bring freedom into your life, optimize for that.

我要做我自己真正想做的事情。即使别人有这样的自由，我也不是抱着一种不在乎他人的态度。我只是希望每个人在可能的情况下，尽量按照自己想要的方式生活。显然，我们在工作和责任方面有一些真正重要的要求。但不要为了一些随意安排的事情、并不重要的事情、活动、婚礼，以及那些让你不想去的无聊晚宴等，而去迎合别人的方式生活。尽可能在你的生活中增加自由，并为此进行优化。

You'll actually be more productive. You won't just be happier, more free. You will be more productive. Because then you can focus on what is in front of you, whatever the biggest problem of that day. When I wake up in the morning, the first four hours are when I have the most energy. And that's when I want to solve all the hard problems. And the next four hours are when I kind of want to do some more outdoorsy activities or I want to work out or maybe I can have some meetings.

你将会变得更加高效。不仅仅是更开心、更加自由，而是更有效率。因为这样你可以专注于眼前的事情，无论那一天最大的挑战是什么。早上起床时，我的精力最充沛的就是头四个小时。在这个时间段，我想要解决所有棘手的问题。而接下来的四个小时，我更倾向于户外活动、锻炼身体，或者安排一些会议。

But I'll try to do those last second based on whatever the day's priorities demand. The last four hours I kind of want to wind down and want to hang out with the kids and I want to play games or read a book or something like that. So having that flexibility and freedom is really important. So you can just put whatever is most needed into the slot at that moment. And instead, if I have like a meeting at 2 p.m. and then I have to like get a thing and some emails done and I put that off till 6 p.m. I'm rushing.

但我会尽量根据当天的优先事项在最后一刻处理这些事情。在最后四个小时里，我希望能够放松一下，和孩子们在一起，玩游戏或者读书之类的。因此，拥有这样的灵活性和自由是非常重要的。这样你就可以在那个时刻安排最需要做的事情。否则，如果我下午两点有个会议，然后还得完成一些事情和邮件，把这些推迟到下午六点我就会很赶。

I'm not going to be productive. I'm not going to be, you're certainly not free. I'm not I'm definitely not free. But also, another thing that I really believe is that inspiration is perishable; act on it immediately. So when you're inspired to do something, do that thing. If I'm inspired to write a blog post, I want to do it at that moment. If I'm inspired to send a tweet, I want to do it at that moment. If I'm inspired to solve a problem, I do it at that moment.

我今天不会有很多产出。我不会很有空，而你肯定也没有空。我肯定不算有空。但是，我也坚信灵感稍纵即逝，要立刻行动。所以，当你有灵感去做某件事时，就立刻去做。如果我有灵感写博客，我会立刻动笔。如果我想发条推文，我会马上去发。如果我想解决一个问题，我会立刻着手去解决。

If I'm inspired to read a book, I want to read it right then. If I'm inspired to solve a problem, I solve it right there. If I'm going to learn something, I do it at the moment of curiosity. The moment the curiosity arrives, I go learn that thing immediately. I download the book, I get on Google, I get on chat GPT, whatever. I will figure that thing out on the spot. And that's when the learning happens. It doesn't happen because of scheduled time because I've sat in a certain time. Because when that time arrives, I might be in a different mood. I might just want to do something different. So I think that spontaneity is really important. You're going to learn best when you're having fun. When you generally are enjoying the process, not when you're forced to sit there and do it.

如果我有读书的灵感，我会立刻去读。如果我有解决问题的灵感，我会马上去解决。如果我想学点什么，我会在好奇心出现的那一刻去学。一旦产生好奇，我就立即去学习。我会下载书籍，上谷歌，或者使用聊天GPT等等。我会当场搞明白，而这就是学习发生的时刻。学习不是因为预定好的时间，因为当那个时间到来时，我的心情可能会不同，我可能想做别的事情。所以我认为自发性很重要。你会在享受过程中学得最好，而不是在被迫坐着去学的时候。

How much do you remember from school? You know, you were forced to learn geography, history, mathematics on this schedule at this time, according to this person. Didn't happen. All the stuff that sticks with you is you learned it when you wanted to, when you generally had the desire and that freedom, that ability to act on something the moment you want to is so liberating that most of us go through our lives with very, very little tastes of that. You can live your entire life that way. That is a recipe for happiness. It feels like efficiency that you have the intuition. Also, you have the inspiration that is going to be the most frictionless time to ever do that particular task. So I've had the inspiration to do that.

你还记得多少学校学的东西？你知道的，你当时被迫按照某个人制定的时间表学习地理、历史、数学等内容。这种方式其实并没有奏效。真正留在你脑海里的知识，都是在你有兴趣的时候学到的，是在你真正渴望学习的时候，因为这种自由和随时行动的能力给人一种解放的感觉。实际上，我们大部分人一生中鲜有这种体验。你完全可以选择这样的生活方式，这是一种快乐的秘诀。这样做会让你感到效率更高，因为这时候你既有直觉，也有灵感，这种感觉是完成某项任务时最顺利的时机。我曾经有过这样的灵感去做事情。

I'll put that off until the time when I no longer really want to do it quite so much. And while I do want to do that thing, I'll do something else that I needed to do because it's on the schedule. It does not work procrastination is because you don't want to do that thing right now. You want to do something else. Go do that something else. I reject this frame that efficiency and productivity and success are counter to happiness and freedom. They actually go together. How so? The happier you are, the more you can sustain doing something, the more likely you're going to do something that will in turn make you even happier and you'll continue to do it and you'll outwork everybody else.

我会把这件事情推迟到我不再那么想做的时候去做。当我想做这件事情的时候，我会去做其他计划中的事情。这并不是拖延，因为你现在不想做这件事。你想去做的是别的事情，那就去做吧。我不同意效率、生产力和成功与幸福和自由对立这一观点。它们其实是相辅相成的。为什么呢？因为你越快乐，你就越能持续地去做某件事，你更有可能去做能让你更快乐的事情，然后你会继续做下去，并且比别人做得更多。

The more free you are, the better you can allocate your time and the less you're caught up in a web of obligations and commitments and the more you can focus on the task at hand. In other news, this episode is brought to you by Function. Staying on top of your health requires more than just an annual physical, which is why I partnered with Function. They run lab tests twice a year to track over 100 biomarkers and monitor for early signs of thousands of diseases. They even screen for 50 types of cancer at stage one, which is five times more data than you get from an annual physical.

你越自由，就越能合理安排时间，不会被繁杂的义务和承诺束缚，能更专注于手头的任务。另一方面，本期节目由Function赞助。保持健康不仅仅依靠一年一度的体检，这也是我选择与Function合作的原因。他们每年进行两次实验室检测，追踪超过100个生物指标，监测数千种疾病的早期信号。他们甚至会筛查50种处于第一阶段的癌症，这比一年一次的体检提供的数据信息多五倍。

You receive insights from a team of expert physicians who provided detailed written clinicians summary for all their observations and then phone consultations for any critical findings. Getting these lab tests done would usually cost thousands, but with Function, it is only $400 and $99. And right now, you can get the exact same blood panels that I get and bypass their weight list by going to the link in the description below or heading to function health.com slash modern wisdom. That's function health.com slash modern wisdom. This is related to another insight of yours, the less you want something, the less you're thinking about it, the less you're obsessing over it, the more you're going to do it in a natural way, the more you're going to do it for yourself, you're going to do it in a way that you're good at and you're going to stick with it.

您将收到一组由专家医生提供的见解，他们为所有观察结果提供详细的书面临床总结，对于任何关键发现，还提供电话咨询。通常，进行这些实验室测试需要花费数千美元，但使用Function，价格仅为$400和$99。现在，您可以通过访问下方描述中的链接，或前往functionhealth.com/modernwisdom，获得与我相同的血液检查组合，并跳过他们的等待名单。与您的另一个见解有关，您越不渴望某件事，越少去想它，越不沉迷于它，您就越会自然地做到，越会为自己做到，以一种您擅长的方式去做，并坚持下去。

The people around you will see the quality of your work is higher. This seems like a difficult tension to navigate because an obsessive attention to detail is a competitive advantage of your work as well. So you have these two things sort of conflicting with each other. No one is going to beat you at being you. If it's so one of the things I'd like to say is like find what feels like play to you, but looks like work to others. So it looks like work to them, but to you feels like play. It's not work. So you're going to outcompete them because you're doing it effortlessly. You're doing it for fun.

你周围的人会发现你的工作质量更高。这似乎是一个难以处理的矛盾，因为对细节的执着关注也是你工作的竞争优势。所以，你会感觉这两点有些冲突。没有人能在做你自己这件事上打败你。我要说的是，找出那些对你来说像玩乐，但在别人看来像是工作的事情。对他们来说像是在工作，但对你来说就是在玩。所以，这根本不算工作。你会比他们更有竞争力，因为你是在轻松愉快地做这件事。

They're doing it for work. They're doing it for some byproduct to you. It's art. It's beauty. It's joy. It's flow. It's fulfilling. You must enjoy podcasting. If you didn't, you wouldn't be good at it. You wouldn't have lost it. Exactly. Right. If you decided that the right way to get ahead in life was to go write books, nobody would have heard of you. Chris Williamson's book would be a complete flop. That's not who you are. You're a podcaster. You enjoy talking to people. You enjoy interviewing them. The more you do things that are natural to you, the less competition you have. You escape competition through authenticity by being your own self.

他们做这些是为了工作，对你来说可能只是一个副产品而已。它是艺术，是美，是快乐，是心流，是成就感。你一定很喜欢做播客。如果你不喜欢，就做不好这个工作，你也不会失去热情。没错。如果你认为写书才是出人头地的正途，那就没有人会知道你的存在。克里斯·威廉姆森的书会彻底扑街。那不是你的本色。你是一个播客制作者。你喜欢与人交谈，喜欢采访他们。事情越符合你的本性，你遇到的竞争就越少。通过真实做自己，你便能摆脱竞争。

If I had to summarize how to be successful in life in two words, I would just say productize yourself. That's it. Just figure out what it is that you naturally do that the world might want, that you can scale up and turn into a product. It'll eventually be effortless for you. Yes, there's always work required, but it won't even feel like work to you. It'll feel like play to you. Modern society gives us that opportunity. If you were two thousand years ago, you're born in a farm. Your choices are very limited. You're going to do stuff on that farm. Now you can literally wake up and you can move to a different city. You can switch careers. You can switch jobs. You can change the people that you're with. You can change so many things about who you are and who you're with and what you're doing that there is infinite opportunity out there for you, literally infinite.

如果要用两个词来总结如何在生活中取得成功，我会说：产品化自己。就这么简单。找出你天生擅长的、这个世界可能需要的东西，然后将其规模化，转化为一种产品。最终，这对你来说会变得轻松自如。没错，其中总是需要付出努力，但对你来说，这甚至不会感觉像是在工作，更像是在玩耍。现代社会为我们提供了这样的机会。如果是在两千年前，你出生在一个农场，你的选择非常有限，只能做农场上的事情。而现在，你可以随时搬到不同的城市，转换事业，换不同的工作，改变你周围的人。关于你是谁，与谁在一起，以及你在做什么，你可以改变很多事情，这样一来，你就有无限的机会，真的是无限的。

It's much better to treat this like a search function to find the people who need you the most, to find the work that needs you the most, to find the place you're best suited to be at. It's worthwhile to spend time in that exploration before diving into exploitation. The biggest mistake in a world with so many choices is premature commitment. If you prematurely commit to being a lawyer or a doctor and now you've got five years invested into that, you might have just completed it. You've completely missed. You might just end up in the wrong profession, the wrong place, the wrong people for 30 years, your life grinding away. Yes, the best time to figure that out was before, but the second best time is now. So just change it.

最好将此视为一种搜索功能，用来寻找最需要你的人，寻找最需要你的工作，寻找最适合你的地方。在深入投身之前，值得花时间进行这样的探索。面对众多选择，最大的错误就是过早做出承诺。如果你过早决定成为律师或医生，然后投入了五年的时间，你可能只是完成了这个过程，但完全错失了方向。你可能会在错误的职业、错误的地方、错误的人群中度过三十年，把人生消磨殆尽。是的，最好的时间是之前就想清楚，但仅次于此的最好时间就是现在。所以，改变吧。

Also presumably kill things that aren't working very quickly. By default, you should kill everything. If you can't decide, the answer is no. Most things you should just be saying no to. Part of my keeping my calendar free is just by default saying no to everything. Do I want to create a calendar just to add your event, or to add your need or your desire? One of the other things about early on in life, you're looking for opportunities. So you're saying yes to everything. And that is a phase that you go through. That is the exploration phase. Later when you found the thing you want to work on, you're in the exploitation phase. You have to say no to everything by default.

翻译如下：也许要快速终止那些行不通的事情。默认情况下，你应该终止一切。如果不能做决定，那么答案就是不。大多数事情你都应该直接说不。我能保持日历清空的一部分原因就是默认对所有事情说不。我要创建一个日历只是为了添加你的活动，或者添加你的需求或愿望吗？人生早期，你会寻找机会，所以你对一切都说是。那是一个过渡阶段，即探索阶段。后来当你找到了想要专注的事情时，你进入了挖掘阶段，这时你必须默认对一切说不。

If you don't say no to everything by default, if you have to even explicitly go out of the way to say no to something, that will take up time. For example, there are a lot of people out there who are into hustle culture. A big piece of hustle culture is like, well, you're not going to get something if you don't ask for it. So they'll hustle people. They'll always be sending you requests messages. Yeah, this is a famous person problem, but I have it. And people are always asking me for things. And I kind of squirm when I get these messages. And I'm sure you get these two text messages email saying, hey, Chris, my friend, so and so should really be on your podcast or you should come to my event and you should write a forward for my book.

如果你默认不对所有事情说“不”，而是需要特意去拒绝某些事情，这会占用你的时间。例如，很多人都沉迷于“拼命奋斗”的文化。这种文化的一个重要部分就是，如果你不去要求，就不会得到。所以，他们会不断向人们发出请求。他们总是给你发请求信息。是啊，这是一个名人常碰到的问题，但我也遇到过。人们总是向我请求各种事情。当我收到这些信息时，我感到不自在。我相信你也会收到这样的信息，比如短信或邮件说：“嘿，克里斯，我的朋友某某非常适合参加你的播客。” 或者“你应该来参加我的活动，并为我的书写一篇序言。”

And you kind of squirm when you get this, right? I have to figure out how to say no. And one of the things I learned along the way is that if you wouldn't ask somebody else to do it and then you get that request yourself, you can just dismiss it. You don't have to respond. You don't even let it enter your brain. You have to be able to delete emails and text messages without flinching if you want to scale. And scaling is very important. Scaling your time is really important. Every interruption will take you out of flow. So the only way you can remain inflow is if you get either very good at ignoring these things by default or closing yourself off like a hermit, like our mutual friend Tim Ferris does.

当你收到这样的要求时，你是不是有点坐立不安，对吧？我必须想办法学会拒绝。在这个过程中，我学到了一点：如果你不会让别人去做这件事，而自己却收到了这样的请求，你可以直接无视它。你不必回应它，甚至不必让它进入你的思维。为了在扩大影响力时成功，你必须能够毫不犹豫地删除电子邮件和短信。扩大你的时间非常重要。每一次的打扰都会让你分心。所以，要保持专注，你要么得非常擅长自动忽略这些事情，要么像个隐士一样封闭自己，就像我们共同的朋友蒂姆·费里斯那样。

Or you just become emotionally capable of not registering these as something that causes turbulence inside of you. That not registering it emotionally thing is that a fundamental. That's so fundamental is just so many things in life. Okay. Can we dig into that a little bit? Is it because again, I've only seen you as you, right? I didn't know you 20 years ago. I didn't know you as a child. I've only seen you with this holistic selfishness, the integrated self prioritization, whatever we, I don't know what we call it. Selfish is fine. I'll take selfish. I'm very selfish person. Don't contact me.

或者你只是情感上有能力不把这些事情视作在你内心引起波动的东西。不在情感上去理解它是一种根本的能力。这种根本能力对生活中的很多事情都至关重要。好吧，我们能不能稍微深入探讨一下这个问题？因为我只能从现在的你看待你，对过去的你一无所知。我不知道二十年前的你，或者你小时候是什么样的。我只看到你现状的整体自我关爱，或者称为“自私”也可以。我承认，我是一个非常自私的人，请不要联系我。

Yeah. That emotional reaction idea. I also get the sense too that maybe people have lived obligation life for so long that they actually kind of struggle to tap into what it is that they want. They've hidden their wants and their desires and their needs and they've deprioritized themselves so much for so long. They go, what do I want? Actually. What is it? Do I want to go to this thing or not? Because all I've done is be fucking puppeted, right? I've been married and edited by other people's desires for so, so, so long. I can't even tap into that anymore. Saying no feels like a war crime.

是的，那种情感反应。我也感觉到可能有些人因为生活在责任重压下太久，以至于他们实际上很难接触到自己的真实欲望。他们隐藏了自己的愿望、渴望和需求，为他人牺牲了自己太久。他们会问，"我到底想要什么？我到底想去这个地方吗？"因为他们一直都是被别人牵着鼻子走，被他人的愿望束缚太久，已经不知道如何掌控自己的生活了。拒绝别人的时候就像是在犯重罪一样。

So I think it's really good to be able to view your own mind and your own thoughts objectively. And that is the big benefit of meditation. It creates a small gap between your conscious observation, self and your mind. And that lets you then look at your thoughts and evaluate them a little bit like you would a third party's statements. And if you just take your mind to be you and they're integrated in one of the same at all times and you're reacting from the mind, then you're not even a question, things that come into your mind.

我认为能够客观地审视自己的思维和想法是非常好的一件事。这也是冥想最大的好处之一。冥想能够在你的意识观察者、自我和你的思维之间创造一个小小的距离。这样你就可以像评价第三方的言论那样来看待和评估自己的想法。如果你总是把自己的思维当成自己的一部分，完全结合在一起，每次都直接从思维出发去反应，那么这些进入脑海的想法就不会被质疑。

Anything that comes in that creates a reaction will immediately create a reaction. But if you can observe your thoughts a little bit and not in some woo way, but you can even just do it through therapy, you can do it through journaling, you can do it anyway you would like. You can just take long walks. You don't have to meditate and do lotus position. All that is unnecessary. But if you can observe your own thoughts and view them a little objectively, then you can start being a little more choosy, a little more critical.

任何引起反应的事情一旦出现，立即会引发反应。但是，如果你能够稍微观察一下自己的想法，而不是以某种神秘的方式，你可以通过咨询、写日记或者任何你喜欢的方式来做到这一点。你可以选择长时间散步。你不需要打坐或者做莲花姿势，这些都不是必须的。但如果你能观察自己的想法，并稍微客观看待它们，那么你就可以开始变得更有选择性，更具批判性。

And you can realize that there are no problems in the real world other than maybe things that inflict pain on your body. Anything else has to become a problem in your mind first. You have to view it and interpret it and create a narrative that it is a problem before it becomes a problem. And then you realize that a lot of your emotional energy is spent on reacting to things that your mind is automatically saying are problems. And you don't need all those problems. Do you really need that many problems in your life?

你会意识到，现实世界中没有真正的问题，除了那些可能会让你身体疼痛的事情。其他的事情首先在你的大脑里被认为是问题。你必须先去看待它、解释它，并创造一个它是问题的叙述，它才会成为一个问题。然后你会发现，你耗费了大量的情感能量去应对那些你的大脑自动认为是问题的事情。而实际上，你不需要那么多问题。你真的需要生活中有那么多问题吗？

Again, I would say try to focus on just one overarching problem and then go solve that problem. If you want to be successful, define success very concretely, focus on that and everything else. When it enters your mind, it becomes a problem whether it's a judgment about the girl walking down the street or the car that just cut in front of you or whether it's like this, your accountant did this stupid thing. Yes, it's going to trigger you, but observe for a moment that it's triggering me, I've created a problem.

再说一次，我建议尽量专注于一个主要的问题，然后去解决它。如果你想要成功，就要对成功有一个非常具体的定义，并专注于这些，只要它们进入你的思维，就变成一个问题。无论是对街上走过的女孩的评判，还是对刚刚插到你前面的车的看法，或者是觉得你的会计做了某件愚蠢的事情。是的，这会让你很生气，但请观察一下，它让你生气，这实际上是你自己创造了一个问题。

Do I really want to have this problem right now? Do I want to spend the energy on this problem or do I want that going somewhere else? And it doesn't have to be that over. You don't have to mind mud-wrestling with itself is also a problem because I love to do that. I have my problems have got problems and I have a real problem about fixing my problems. Yeah, exactly. So you're going to be much happier and much more focused. Again, I think happiness and focus and success can kind of complement each other.

我真的想现在处理这个问题吗？我想把精力花在这个问题上，还是把它用在其他地方？不一定非要绕过去。过分纠结于自我争斗也是个问题，因为我喜欢这样做。我的问题还有更多问题，而解决问题本身也是个大问题。是的，没错。所以，如果不这样你会更快乐，也更专注。我认为快乐、专注和成功可以相辅相成。

You're going to have much more energy. Just think about as mental energy. You're going to have much more mental energy to focus on the actual problems you want to solve if you don't start unconsciously, subconsciously, reactively picking up problems everywhere. So before anything can be a problem that takes up your emotional energy, you have to accept it as a problem. You can be choosy about your problems. And I'm not saying I'm perfect in that regard, but I think I'm better than I used to be.

你将会有更多的精力。想象一下，就是精神上的精力。如果你不再无意中、下意识地到处寻找问题，你将会有更多的精神能量来专注于你真正想要解决的问题。在任何事情成为消耗你情感精力的问题之前，你必须先把它接受为一个问题。你可以选择性地对待自己的问题。我并不是说在这方面我做得很完美，但我觉得我比以前做得更好。

Well, lots of people are addicted to solving problems, right? So much so that sometimes people create problems when we don't have any simply so that we can solve them. We have that going on and then even worse as we take on problems that we can't affect. So another one of my little quips was a rational person can sort of a rational person should cultivate indifference to things that are out of their control, right? Or a rational person can find peace by cultivating indifference to things that are out of their control.

很多人对解决问题上瘾，对吧？有时候，为了能解决问题，人们甚至会人为制造一些并不存在的问题。我们经常遇到这种情况，更糟糕的是，我们还会去承担那些我们无能为力的问题。因此，我的一个小建议是，一个理性的人应该对那些无法掌控的事情培养一种无所谓的态度，对吧？或者说，一个理性的人可以通过对无法掌控的事情不闻不问来找到内心的平静。

I'm as guilty as anybody of doom surfing on X or social media and getting worked up about things that I can't do anything about, right? Like do I want to be fighting those battles in my mind when I literally cannot do anything about it? So if you find yourself looping on a problem like you're watching the news too much and you're getting caught up in a problem, you can't do anything about. You have to step away from that.

我和其他人一样，经常在 X 或社交媒体上无休止地浏览令人沮丧的内容，为那些我无能为力的事情感到焦虑。这样做是否有意义呢？我真的想在心里打那些自己根本无法解决的仗吗？所以，如果你发现自己一直在纠结于一个问题，比如过度关注新闻，让自己陷入束手无策的困境，你就需要抽身而出了。

And modern media is a delivery mechanism for mimetic viruses. And what's happened now is 100 years ago, 500 years ago, if something wasn't happening in your immediate vicinity, you wouldn't hear about it. It wouldn't be a problem for you. But now every single one of the world's problems has turned into a mimetic virus which is going into the battlefield of the news and is trying to infect your mind in real time. So that yeah, so that you become obsessed with the war in Ukraine, which is really far away, you get obsessed with climate change or you get obsessed with AI doom or you get obsessed with whatever. And there's nothing as riveting as the old religion, the world is ending, the world is ending, pay attention, the world is ending. And if you don't have to sign for complex, like global, yes. Sign for complex, like global scale.

现代媒体是模仿病毒的传播机制。如今，与100年前或500年前不同，如果某件事情没有发生在你周围，你根本不会听说，更不会成为你的困扰。但现在，世界上的每一个问题都变成了一种模仿病毒，在新闻战场上实时试图感染你的思维。结果就是，你可能会开始对遥远的乌克兰战争痴迷，对气候变化充满忧虑，或者对人工智能的末日感到恐慌，等等。没有什么比旧宗教“世界正在毁灭，注意世界正在毁灭”的警钟更能吸引眼球。而且你不必签署复杂、像全球规模的协议。

And I would argue that large percentages of the population are essentially just infected with these mimetic viruses that are taken over their brain and are causing them to do incredible gyration about things that probably aren't even true or are greatly exaggerated. But even to the extent they are true, there are things that that person can do nothing about. And they should put their own house in order first. So another little line I have for myself is your family is broken, but you're going to fix the world. People are running out, they're trying to fix the world. They're all live. Oh my god. And I think it defies credibility if you can't fix your own life first. I'm not going to take you seriously if you can't fix your own life.

我认为，大部分人群实际上就像是被感染了一种模仿病毒，这种病毒控制了他们的大脑，让他们在一些可能并不真实或被严重夸大的事情上做出疯狂的反应。即便这些事情有点儿真实，但那个人对其无能为力。他们应该先理清自己的生活。所以我自己常说：你的家庭一团糟，却想着拯救世界。很多人都急着去拯救世界，满脑子都是这些事情。我觉得，如果一个人连自己的生活都无法整理好，他的可信度就值得怀疑。我不会认真对待连自己生活都搞不定的人。

Like all these philosophers who seem like people you emulate and so smart or like these brilliant celebrities and they go off and commit suicide. Well, you just kind of invalidated your whole way of life. It's like that line of no country for all men where the killer is waiting for the protagonist and protagonist shows up and the killer says, well, you know, if your set of rules brought you here, then what good are your rules? Didn't work. I am self, I'm holistically selfish in that I want to be objectively successful in everything I set out to want. Yeah. You have one life don't settle for mediocrity.

就像那些看似值得模仿的哲学家，他们看起来很聪明，或者那些才华横溢的名人，最后选择了自杀。这样做就等于否定了他们自己的生活方式。就好像《老无所依》里面的一句台词，杀手在等主人公，主人公出现时，杀手说，如果你的规则把你带到了这儿，那这些规则有什么用呢？根本行不通。我是一个从整体上自私的人，因为我想在所有我想做到的事情上客观地成功。是的，你只有一次生命，不要满足于平庸。

Don't settle for mediocrity. And I think the only people debate intelligence, for example, right? We talk about IQ tests and all that. But I think the only true test of intelligence is if you get what you want out of life. And there are two parts to that. One is getting what you want. So you know how to get it. And the second is wanting the right things knowing what to want in the first place. I could want to be a six foot eight basketball player and I'm not going to get that. So it's wanting the wrong thing. So it's wanting something that you can't get. That's one thing you can't get. It's also wanting something that you don't want.

不要满足于平庸。在我看来，唯一值得争论的智慧测试是：你是否能从生活中得到你想要的。有两个关键点。第一是得到你想要的，说明你知道怎样去获取。第二是知道应该想要什么，是在一开始就明确自己真正想要的东西。比如我可能想成为一个六英尺八英寸的篮球运动员，但我不可能实现这个愿望，因为这是不切实际的想法。想要无法得到的东西，或者想要自己其实并不需要的东西，都是不明智的选择。

Yeah, wanting something that's a booby prize. There are plenty of booby prizes out there too, right? I wouldn't know that what. I wouldn't know that what it about 20 years. Yeah, prizes that are just not worth having or that create their own problems. But if you're not careful, you can end up in a place in life not only that you don't want to be, but one that you didn't even mean to get to. That's if you're kind of proceeding unconsciously. But how many people? And usually I think people end up there because they are going on autopilot with sort of societal expectations or other people's expectations.

是啊，有时候我们想要的东西其实是"鸡肋奖"。这种奖品其实有很多，不是吗？我大概用了20年时间才意识到这个问题。那些奖品要么不值得拥有，要么会带来自己的麻烦。如果你不小心，你可能会到达一个不仅你不想要的地方，而且连你自己都没打算去的地方。这往往是在你没有清醒意识的情况下发生的。可是有多少人这样呢？大多数时候，人们之所以会这样，是因为他们在生活中过于依赖社会期待或者他人的期望。

So, you know, or out of guilt or out of like mimetic desire, you know, Peter Tiel has this whole thing from Renatio Rard about how mimetic desires are desires are picked up from other people. And some of those are automatically baked into society like, you know, go to law school, go to med school, go to whatever, go to business school. Or they might be from watching what your friends are doing and, you know, the other monkeys are doing. Or it might just be, you know, what your parents expectations are. I might be at a guilt, you know, guilt is just society's voice speaking in your head, socially programmed.

所以，你知道的，出于内疚感或者模仿欲望，彼得·蒂尔谈到的一整套关于雷内·基拉德（René Girard）的理论，其中提到模仿性欲望是从他人那里学来的。而其中一些欲望是社会中根深蒂固的，比如你知道的，上法学院、医学院、商学院等等。或者这些欲望可能来源于你观察到的你朋友们在做什么，或者其他人（“其他猴子”）在做什么。又或者，这些欲望可能仅仅是你父母对你的期望。至于内疚感，它其实是社会声音在你内心的回响，是被社会编程的结果。

You know, you know, you're going to be a good little monkey and do things that are good for the tribe. But I think the best outcomes come when you think it through for yourself and decide for yourself. And I don't think people spend enough time deciding. For example, we run on these four year cycles, you know, in Silicon Valley, you go join a startup, you're vest your stock over four years. That's the standard. Okay. In college, you know, you go for four years, high school, you go for four years. Some things take longer. You know, you have children, they hit puberty nine years later. It's like a nine year cycle until that relationship changes.

你知道的，你会是个乖巧的小猴子，做对部落有益的事情。但我认为，最好的结果来自于你自己的思考和决定。我觉得人们没有花足够的时间去做决定。比如，我们都是按照四年周期运作的。在硅谷，你加入一家创业公司，你的股票会在四年内成熟。这是标准的做法。大学，你读四年，高中也是四年。但有些事情需要更长时间。比如，你有了孩子，他们在大约九年后进入青春期，直到那个时候你们的关系才会改变。

But we're used to these fairly long cycles, multi-year cycles in which we are committed to things. You go to law school, you know, four or five year cycle, you go be a lawyer, 40 year cycle. These are very long cycles. The amount of time we spent deciding what to do and who to do it with very short, very, very short, right? We spend, you know, three months deciding, one month deciding on a job where we're going to be for 10 years or five years. And because a lot of discoveries path dependent where the next thing you find on the path is dependent on where you were on the previous path, you sort of start going down this vector that is a very long distance. People decide frivolously which city to live in. And that's going to decide who their friends are, what their jobs are, their opportunity, their weather, their food supply, their air supply, quality of life. You know, it's such an important decision, but if you will spend so little time thinking you through.

我们已经习惯了这些相当漫长的周期，多年的周期，我们在其中承诺做一些事情。比如你去读法学院，这是一个四到五年的周期，然后成为律师，这又是一个40年的周期。这些都是非常长的周期。然而，我们花在决定做什么和与谁一起做的时间却很短，非常非常短。我们可能会花三个月甚至一个月的时间来决定一份可能会做上十年或五年的工作。而许多发现都是路径依赖的，也就是说你在路径上接下来的发现取决于你之前所处的位置，所以你开始走上一条非常长远的方向。人们随意决定住在哪个城市，而这将决定他们的朋友、工作机会、天气、食物供应、空气质量和生活质量。这是如此重要的决定，但人们却花很少的时间去认真思考。

So I argue that if you're making a four year decision, spend a year thinking it through, like really thinking it through. 25% of the time. Yeah, exactly. There's the secretary theory. I don't know if you know about one. Is that a computer science? I have to. You've done this many people, pick the best one of the next, however many. That's right. Yeah. The secretary theory is this computer science professor is trying to figure out how much time you should spend interviewing secretaries and then how long to keep the secretary. So let's say he's going to have a secretary for 10 years. Does he keep searching for, you know, one year, two years, three years, one month, two months? That's a time of time, and it turns out that the optimal time is somewhere around a third about a third of the way through you take the best person you've worked with and try to find someone that good or better.

所以我的观点是，如果你要做一个四年的决定，至少花一年时间来认真考虑，就是真正地思考，大约占你时间的25%。没错，正是这样。这和秘书理论有点相似。我不知道你是否听说过这个理论。这个理论原本来自于计算机科学。简单来说，就是在挑选秘书时，一开始要面试很多人，然后你会选出一个最佳人选，然后再寻找下一位更好的人。这个理论讲的是一位计算机科学教授试图弄清楚面试秘书需要花费多少时间，以及最终聘用秘书的时长。假设他想要雇用一个秘书工作十年，那么他应该继续搜索多长时间呢？是一年、两年、三年，还是一个月、两个月？经过分析，结果表明最佳时机大约是在可用时间的三分之一处，此时选择你曾合作过的最优秀的人，然后寻找一个同样优秀或更优秀的人。

So by the time you've gone about a third of the way through, you have, excuse me, seen enough that you now have a sense of what the bar is. And then anybody who meets or exceeds that bar is good enough. And this applies to dating, this applies to jobs and careers. This applies generally. But the interesting thing about the secretary theorem is that it's actually not time based. It's not based on one third of the time. It's iteration based. The number of shots you took on goal. That's right. So you want to have lots and lots of iterations. And that's when you need to bail out quickly and you need to be decisive quickly. That's right. You need to take opportunities quickly and bail out quickly. Correct. If you go back and you look through failed relationships, probably the biggest regret will be staying in the relationship. After you knew it was over. Exactly. You should have left sooner. The moment you knew it wasn't going to work out, you should have moved on.

所以，当你走完大约三分之一的旅程时，抱歉，你已经看够了，这时你对标准有了清晰的理解。任何达到或超过这个标准的人都算是合适的。这种方法适用于约会、工作和职业生涯等各个方面。秘书问题的有趣之处在于，它实际上并不是以时间为基础的，而是基于迭代次数的。也就是说，你需要多次尝试。因此，你需要迅速作出决策，快速放弃不合适的选项。没错，你需要快速抓住机会并迅速放手。如果你回顾过去那些失败的关系，可能你最大的遗憾就是在明知道关系结束后却没有及时离开。确实如此，当你意识到关系无法继续时，就应该尽早结束并向前看。

So in that sense, I think Malcolm Gladwell popularized this idea of 10,000 hours to mastery. I would say it's actually 10,000 iterations to mastery. It's not actually 10,000. It's some unknown number. But it's about the number of iterations that drives a learning curve. And iteration is not repetition. Repetition is a different thing. Repeating is doing the same thing over and over. Iteration is modifying it with a learning and then doing another version of it. So that's error correction. So if you get 10,000 error corrections in anything, you will be an expert at it. Don't partner with cynics and pessimists. You mentioned there about the people who have got a nightmare going on at home and are trying to fix the world. But a lot of the time that cynicism and pessimism we find in ourselves, we see the world, whether we want to, whether it's because we've been bived to what the news or the negative people around us have said.

从这个角度来看，我认为是马尔科姆·格拉德威尔（Malcolm Gladwell）普及了“掌握技能需要1万小时”这个观点。不过我认为，实际上是需要1万次迭代才能掌握。这个数字其实并不固定，具体是多少无法确定，但关键在于通过不断迭代推动学习曲线。迭代并不等同于重复。重复是指一遍又一遍地做同样的事情，而迭代是在学习后进行修改，然后再做另一个版本，这就是纠错。因此，如果在任何领域你能进行1万次纠错，你就会成为这一领域的专家。不要与愤世嫉俗者和悲观主义者合作。你提到那些在家里遇到麻烦并试图改变世界的人，但很多时候那种愤世嫉俗和悲观的情绪是我们自己内心的反映。我们是否想这样做，是因为受到了新闻或周围消极的人影响。

Or it's a bit more kind of endogenous than that. It's just sort of in us. It's the way that we see the world. How can people avoid cynicism and pessimism within themselves? Yeah. Cynicism and pessimism is a tough one. We're naturally hardwired for it. Again, I go back to evolution. I'm sorry to keep harping an evolution. But within biology, there's very few good explanatory theories and theory of evolution by natural selection. It's probably the best one. So if you can't explain something about life or psychology or human nature through evolution, then you probably don't have a good theory for it. And I would say that pessimism is another one that comes out of this, which is in the natural environment, you're hardwired to be pessimistic. Because let's say that I see something rustling in the woods. And if I move towards it, it turns out to be food and prey, then good. I get to eat one meal. But if it turns as to be a predator, I get eaten. And that's the end of that.

或者这更像是一种内生的东西。它就在我们体内，是我们看待世界的方式。人们如何能够避免内心的愤世嫉俗和悲观呢？是的，愤世嫉俗和悲观是个难题。我们天生就有这种倾向。我又要提到进化理论了，抱歉总是强调进化，但在生物学中，能够良好解释事物的理论并不多，自然选择的进化论可能是最好的一个。所以，如果你无法通过进化来解释关于生命、心理学或人性的问题，那么很可能你没有一个好的理论。我会说，悲观也是由此产生的。在自然环境中，我们天生倾向于悲观。比如说，如果我看到树林中有东西在摇动，如果我靠近过去，它是食物和猎物，那很好，我吃到了一顿饭。但如果它是捕食者，我却被吃掉，那就完蛋了。

So we are hardwired to avoid ruin and, you know, just dying. So we are naturally hardwired to be pessimists. But modern society is very different. Despite whatever problems you may have with modern society, it is far, far safer than living in the jungle and just trying to survive. And the opportunities and the upside are non-linear. For example, when you're investing, if you short a stock, the most money you can make is 2x. You just lose, you know, if the stock goes to zero, you double your money. But if the stock is in next-end video and it goes 100x or 1000x, you make a lot of money. So upside, because of leverage is nearly unlimited.

所以，我们天生就倾向于避免危险和死亡。可以说，我们天生就比较悲观。然而，现代社会与以前大不相同。尽管现实社会中也有各种问题，但它远比在丛林中求生要安全得多。而且现在的机会和潜在收益是非线性的。例如，在投资时，如果你做空一只股票，最多可以赚到两倍的收益，因为如果股票降到零，你的钱翻倍。但如果你投资的股票是像某些前沿科技公司那样，可能翻100倍甚至1000倍，你会赚很多钱。因此，由于杠杆效应，潜在收益几乎是无限的。

Also in modern society, because there's so many different people you can interact with, if you go on a date and fail, there are infinite more people to go on a date with. In a tribal system, there might have been 20 people and you can't even get through all of them. So modern society is far more forgiving of failure. And you just have to sort of neocortically realize and override that. You have to realize that you're much more running a search function to find the thing that will work. And then that one thing will pay off in massive compounding.

在现代社会，由于有众多不同的人可以互动，如果你约会失败了，还有无数其他人可以继续尝试约会。在部落系统中，可能只有20个人，甚至都无法接触到其中的所有人。因此，现代社会对失败更加宽容。你需要在理性上意识到并克服这个问题。要明白，你其实是在进行一种搜索功能，寻找那个能奏效的机会。一旦找到，这个成功会产生巨大的累积效应。

Once you find your mate for the rest of your life, you find your wife for your husband, then you can compound it in that relationship. It's okay if you had 50 failed dates in between. The same way once you find the one business you're meant to plow into and it'll compound return. It's okay if you had 50 small failed ventures or 50 small failed job interviews. It doesn't, the number of failures doesn't matter. And so there's no point in being a pessimist. You want to be an optimist, but I would say you want to be, you want to be skeptical about specific things. Every specific opportunity is probably a fail. But you want to be optimistic in the general.

一旦你找到了共度余生的伴侣，你找到了适合的妻子或丈夫，你就可以在这段关系中不断成长。在这之前经历了50次失败的约会也没关系。同样，当你找到一个真正值得投入的事业，它会带来复合的回报。在这之前，不论经历了50次失败的小生意还是50次失败的工作面试都没关系。失败的次数并不重要，因此没有必要悲观。我们要有乐观的态度，但也要对具体的事情持怀疑态度。每一个具体机会可能都会失败，但我们要在整体上保持乐观。

If you want to be like something in here is going to work. How would you navigate that tension? I mean, exactly as I said, I'm optimistic in the general that if something fails right now, then this is a little woo woo. But it wasn't meant to be. It was a learning experience. It was an iteration. As long as I learned something from it, then it's a win. If I didn't learn from it, then it's a loss. But as long as you're learning and you keep iterating fast and cutting your losses quickly, then when you find the right thing, you have to be optimistic and compound into it.

如果你想要相信这里的一些事情会奏效，你会如何处理这种矛盾？我的意思是，正如我所说的，我总体上是乐观的。如果现在有事情失败了，这听起来有点玄，但这可能是注定的，它只是一次学习的机会，是一个迭代。只要我从中学到了东西，那就是一种收获。如果我没有从中学到东西，那就是一场损失。但只要你在学习，并且快速迭代、迅速止损，那么当你找到正确的事情时，你就需要乐观并继续投入进去。

So you don't want to jump into the first thing. You don't want to marry the first person you date necessarily unless you've got very lucky. But you want to investigate and explore very, very quickly until you find the match. And then you have to be willing to go all in. You have to move your chips to the center of the table. So both those approaches are required. So it's a Bob L strategy. It's sort of black or it's white. And most people are stuck in this gray bit. I'm going to cough in, but I'm kind of don't really know if I am.

你不应该轻易投入到第一件事中，就像不应该急于和第一次约会的人结婚，除非你非常幸运遇到了合适的人。在找到合适的匹配之前，你需要迅速地探索和调查。一旦找到了，你就必须全力以赴，把所有筹码都押上。这两种策略都很重要。这就是Bob L的策略，它非黑即白。而大多数人都困在灰色地带，他们犹豫不决，不知道是否应该全力以赴。

I also think labels like pessimists, optimists, cynic, introvert, extrovert. These are very self-limiting. Humans are very dynamic. They're times when you feel like being introverted, they're times when you feel like being extroverted. They're context in which you'll be pessimistic. They're context in which you'll be optimistic. Leave all those labels alone. It's better just to look at the problem at hand, look at reality the way it is. You're going to take yourself out of the equation in a sense.

我认为像悲观主义者、乐观主义者、愤世嫉俗者、内向者、外向者这样的标签非常限制自己。人类是非常有动态变化的。有时候你会感到内向，有时候你会感到外向；有的情况下你会变得悲观，有的情况下你会变得乐观。把这些标签放一边吧。最好是专注于眼前的问题，客观看待现实。从某种意义上说，这样做可以让你跳出自我限制。

Obviously you're involved, but motivated reasoning is the worst kind of reasoning. You're not going to find truth through highly motivated reasoning. You have to be objective. An objective means trying to take yourself out of it as much as possible, or at least your personality out of it as much as possible. And so to the extent you run with this thick identity and personality, it's going to cloud your judgment. It's going to try and lock you into the past. If you say I'm a depressed and unhappy person, yeah, I'm going to be unhappy. It's a way of locking yourself into your past.

显然你是参与其中的，但动机导向的推理是最糟糕的推理方式。通过强烈的动机推理是无法找到真相的。你必须保持客观。客观意味着尽量让自己置身事外，或者至少尽量将自己的个性因素剔除。在你非常认同某种身份和个性的时候，它们会影响你的判断力，把你困在过去。如果你说自己是一个抑郁且不快乐的人，那么你就会一直不快乐。这是在把自己困在过去的状态中。

Even saying I have trauma, I have PTSD. Yeah, you feel something. There are memories, there are flashes, there are occasional bad feelings. But don't define yourself by it because then you lock it into your identity and just going to loop on it. It's better to stay flexible because the reality is always changing. And you have to be able to adapt to it. Adaptation is also intelligence. Adaptation is survival. Adaptation is kind of how you're here. You're here because you're an adapter and your ancestors are adapters.

即便你说我有创伤，我有创伤后应激障碍。是的，你会有一些感觉，会有一些记忆、闪回，或者偶尔的不良情绪。但不要让这些定义你自己，否则它们就会被锁定在你的身份中，让你不断沉浸其中。保持灵活会更好，因为现实总是在变化。你必须能够适应这种变化。适应其实也是一种智慧，是生存的方式。这也是你能存在于此的原因。因为你是一个适应者，你的祖先也是适应者。

So to adapt, you'll see things clearly. And if you're seeing them through your own identity, it's going to cloud your judgment. A quick aside, you've probably heard me talk about element before. In fact, you might be thinking, for f*** sake, Chris, will you shut up about element? And the answer is, no, I won't. Because when I take it, I genuinely feel the difference. I genuinely believe that proper hydration makes a massive difference to your performance. So I'm going to keep talking about it until you start drinking it. Adaptation is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't. Each Grabingol stick pack contains a signed back to electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium and magnesium with no sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients or any other junk. It plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue while optimizing brain health, regulating appetite and curbing cravings.

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这段时间以来，每天早上我都会在一杯凉水中加入橙子味的调味料，已经坚持了三年多。当我没有这么做的时候，确实能感受到不同。最棒的是，他们有无条件退款政策，非常适合那些喜欢无忧购物的人。而且使用期限没有限制，所以你可以随便购买和尝试。如果出于任何原因不喜欢，他们会直接退款给你，甚至不需要退回包装盒。他们对自己的产品非常有信心。此外，他们还提供美国境内的免费送货服务。现在，只要访问下方描述中的链接，或者前往 drinklmnt.com/modemwistum，即可在购买第一盒时免费获得包含八种口味的试用装。

Moving on to sort of thinking about happiness, obviously, topic of yours that's a. It's honestly the one that I feel least qualified to talk about. Is it like a guy that's got long arms teaching you how to bench press or a dude that's really tall teaching you how to deadlift? Someone that feels like they came from behind the eight ball? Yeah, you're asking a crazy person about their thoughts. So just thought it through. Is happiness still more about peace than it is about joy? It's just one of those overloaded words that means different things to different people. So I'm not even sure we're communicating the same language, but what is happiness? I think it's just basically being okay with where you are. Not wanting. Not wanting things to be different than the way they are. Not having the sense that anything is missing in this moment. Needing something to change your current positive situation being contingent on an adjustment.

接下来谈谈幸福这个话题，显然这是你关注的内容之一。说实话，我觉得自己最没有资格谈论这个话题。这就像让一个臂长的人教你如何卧推，或者让一个高个子教你如何硬拉。就像一个从一开始就处于劣势的人在分享他们的看法。你在问一个疯子对幸福的看法，实际上这个问题我也仔细想过。幸福是关于宁静多于快乐吗？幸福是一个过载的词，对不同的人意味着不同的东西。我不确定我们是在用同一种语言交流，但是幸福是什么呢？我认为，它基本上就是对自己所在位置的认可。不想要。不想让事情变得不同于现在。不觉得此刻有什么缺失。不需要改变就能有正面的感受，不依赖于任何调整。

Of course, I'm getting something from the outside world. Ironically, I think most people, if you were to ask them when they were happiest for a sustained period of time, not for a brief moment because pleasure can override happiness and create this illusion of happiness. But if you ask people when they were happy for a sustained period of time, they were probably doing some variation of nothing. That's interesting because in the chase is this sort of lack, this contingency. That's right. But then you get bored. If you just sit around all the time, you get bored. So you want to adventure, you want to surprise. There's the funny thought experiment of the bliss machine, which is, suppose I could drill a hole in your head and put an electrode in, and they did this with monkeys, and I can put a wire in there and I can stimulate just the right part of your brain. I can put you in bliss. You can just be in bliss. Would you want that?

当然，我从外界获得了一些东西。讽刺的是，如果你问大多数人，他们什么时候在一段时间里最快乐，而不仅仅是短暂的瞬间，因为快乐可能会掩盖幸福，制造出一种幸福的假象。如果你问人们什么时候在一段时期里感到幸福，他们可能什么都没做，只是变换一下这种无所事事的形式。这很有趣，因为在追逐梦想的过程中，总有一种缺失感和附带条件。然而，如果你一直闲着不动，就会感到无聊，所以你会想要冒险和惊喜。有一个有趣的思想实验叫做“极乐机器”：假设我能在你的头上钻一个洞，放入一个电极（他们确实在猴子身上做过这样的实验），我能把一根电线放进去，刺激你大脑的特定部位，让你感受到极乐。你可以一直处于极乐状态。你会想要那样吗？

It might be nice? For how long? Do it and I'll tell you. Right. Most people will say, well, I don't want that. I want meaning. I don't want just bliss. I want meaning. You're like, okay, well, I'll put an electrode in there and I'll give you meaning. How about that? And if you kind of run the start experiment long enough, I think most people realize actually what I want is I want surprise. I want the world to surprise me and I want to wrestle with it in ways that are somewhat predictable but somewhat not and kind of end up back where you started. So I don't know if necessarily, for some people, pure happiness is the ultimate goal. They want to just be blissfully happy wherever they are whenever they are. I think other people, most people would say, well, I'm here in this world. I'm here in this life. I don't understand it or why, but I want to be engaged. I want to be surprised.

这也许会很不错？那能持续多久？你试试，我再告诉你。是的。大多数人会说，我不想要那样的。我想要的是意义，不只是开心快乐。我想要的是意义。你可能会说，好吧，我可以安装一个电极给你提供意义，怎么样呢？如果你真的开始这样的实验并且持续足够长的时间，我认为大多数人会意识到，其实他们所想要的是惊喜。他们想要世界给他们带来惊喜，并希望能以一种可以预见又不可预见的方式与之较量，同时又回到原点。所以，我不确定是否对所有人而言，纯粹的幸福是最终目标。有些人想要无论何时何地都能够幸福快乐。我想大部分人会说，我来到了这个世界，生活在这个人生中，虽然我不明白为什么，但我想要有所参与并被惊喜所打动。

I want to do things. I want to accomplish things. I want to want things and then get them. That's kind of the whole game that we're all playing here. Surprises are really interesting. The unpredictability, I think, total bro science here, but I'm pretty sure that that's kind of how dopamine works, that things are a bit better than you expected. Within that, it means that if you, for the perennial insecure overachievers that claw you for control, that really want to be able to, the schedule is perfectly done and we know the itinerary, we know where we're going to be at this time.

我想做事情，我想实现目标。我想要一些东西，然后得到它们。这就是我们生活的全部游戏。惊喜是非常有趣的。我认为，不可预测性，虽然我不是科学家，但我很确定这就是多巴胺的作用，让事情比你预期的要好。在这种情况下，对于那些永远不安的成就者来说，他们总是渴望掌控一切，希望能够把日程安排得完美无缺，知道每个时间点我们会在哪里。

In some ways, I guess, reducing down the capacity for surprise because everything has become very contrived, prescribed, done in advance, laid out. Your ability to be surprised actually diminishes. Yeah. If nothing worked out the way you expected, if it was all a serendipity and you didn't want that, you would just be a ball of anxiety. On the other hand, if everything worked out as you expected and wanted, you'd be so bored, you might as well be dead. So there's some, you know, the river of life kind of flows between these two banks and enjoy it.

在某些方面，我想，因为一切都变得非常刻意、预设、提前安排和规划好，所以意外的可能性在减少。你的惊喜能力实际上在下降。是的，如果事情都不如你所料，全是意外，而你又不希望这样，你可能会充满焦虑。另一方面，如果一切都如你所愿和期望，你可能会无聊得如同行尸走肉。因此，生活的河流在这两岸之间流动，好好享受它吧。

You say, thinking about yourself is the source of all and happiness, but presumably you need to work on yourself and your weaknesses as well. So some degree of reflection is important. And if thinking about yourself as the source of unhappiness, is this a price that you need to pay? I need to sort of reflect inward. I'm going to have to diminish this level of happiness for a little while and then I can use this new level. I've got my brown belt on and I can go out into the world as a brown belt.

你说，专注于自我思考是一切的根源，也是幸福的来源，但也许你需要对自己和自己的弱点进行改善。因此，适度的反思是很重要的。如果说思考自己是痛苦的源头，那么这是你必须付出的代价吗？我需要进行某种内心的反观。我可能需要暂时减少一些幸福感，然后利用这个新的层次。我已经晋级到棕带，可以带着这个新的级别走向世界。

What I'm specifically referring to that is if you're thinking about your personality and your ego and the character of you and you're obsessing over that. That's where a lot of depression and happiness sort of lingers and gets cultivated. So thinking about, whoa is me? This happened to me. That happened to me. I have this personality. I have this issue. I deserve this. I didn't get that. That's, you're just strengthening a little beast in there that is insatiable.

我特别想表达的是，当你过于关注自己的个性、个人形象和性格时，这往往会导致抑郁和快乐的错综复杂。不断想“我好可怜，这事发生在我身上，那事也是我经历的，我有这样的性格和问题，我该得到这个，却得不到那个”，这样只是在无止境地喂养内心那个无法满足的小兽。

That's where I think a lot of unhappiness comes from. What's the beast? It's the ego. But that word is overused that I kind of hate to use the word. But it's a recurring collection of thoughts that are very self-obsessed and will never be satisfied and very concretized as well. So they're not malleable, not particularly flexible. But you're just adding to them by thinking about them all the time. You're creating narratives and stories and identities. But that's different from solving personal problems.

我认为许多不快乐的根源就在这里。那个“怪兽”是什么呢？它就是自我。不过这个词已被过度使用，我都有点不太想用它了。其实它是一种反复出现的思想集合，极度自我中心，永远无法满足，而且非常固化，不容易改变或灵活。然而，你总是想着这些事情，就像在不停地为它们添加素材，创造出各种故事、叙述和身份。这样做其实不同于解决个人问题。

So if you encounter something, you learn from something, you're reflecting upon the learning, then you can reflect upon it, absorb it, and then just move on. But sitting there saying, I'm Chris, I'm the ball. I deserve this. This happened to me. That person wronged me. This is who I am. This shouldn't have happened. I need to go get revenge on this or I need to fix that or change this. I mean, that I think is where a lot of mental illness comes from.

所以，如果你遇到某件事，并从中学到东西，然后你反思这些学习，你就能把它吸收，然后继续前进。但如果你总是坐在那里想，我是克里斯，我是受害者，我应该得到这个。这个事情发生在我身上，那个人对我不公，这是我应得的。这件事不应该发生。我需要去报复，或者我需要去修复、改变这些。我认为这就是很多心理问题的根源。

So it depends if you are thinking about something to solve a problem and get it off your chest and get it off your mind. If it leaves your mind clearer at the end of it, then I think it was worthwhile. If it leaves your mind busier at the end of it, then you're probably going in the wrong direction. Is this a justification for detachment, cultivated ignorance, distraction? Detachment is not a goal. Detachment is a byproduct.

这要看你是在思考解决问题，并希望将它从心头和脑中卸下。如果在结束后让你的思绪更加清晰，那么我认为这是值得的。如果在结束后让你的思绪更加杂乱，那么你可能走错了方向。这是否是一种为超然态度、故意忽视或分散注意力找的理由呢？超然不是目标，而是一种副产品。

It's just a byproduct of just realizing what matters and what doesn't. And just for one moment on the self thing, I think everybody craves thinking about something more than themselves. If you want to be happy to some extent, you have to forget about your personal problems. And one way to do that is take on other problems, bigger problems. And that could be a mission. That could be spirituality. That could be kids.

这只是意识到什么重要、什么不重要的一个附带结果。关于自我的问题，我觉得每个人都希望关注一些比自己更重要的事情。如果你想要获得某种程度的快乐，就需要忘掉自己的个人问题。而做到这一点的一种方法就是承担其他问题，更大的问题。那可能是一项使命、一种精神追求，或者照顾孩子。

It could be caring about the planet, although I think people take that a little far. Then they get kind of oppressive and tyrannical in support of abstract concepts. But so these can be taken too far. Just like religion, for example, just like anything in excess. Anything in excess, right? But generally, the less you think about yourself, the more you can think about a mission or about God or about a child or something like that.

这可以是关心地球，虽然我觉得有些人对此有点过了头。他们可能会因为支持一些抽象的概念而变得有压迫性和专制。所以这种事情可以被带到极端。就像宗教一样，所有事情过度了都不好，对吧？不过，一般来说，越少想着自己，就越能专注于某个目标、对神的信仰、对孩子的关爱等等。

So I remember Vinny Haimath, the founder of Loom, said, I am rich and I have no idea to do what to do with my life. And you replied, God, kids are mission pick at least one. That's right, preferably all three. It's very liberating. Yeah, thinking over thinking about yourself is probably the, it may not be the cause of depression, but it certainly doesn't help. Rumination.

我记得Loom的创始人Vinny Haimath说过：“我很富有，但我不知道该如何规划我的人生。”而你回应道：“上帝、孩子和一个使命，至少选其中一个。没错，最好三个都选。这真的很解放。” 是的，过度思考自己的情况可能不是导致抑郁的原因，但肯定无益。过度思虑。

Yeah, I kind of had a self-injuice Stockholm syndrome from this sort of a thing because I like to think about stuff. And you provide you with an endless number of things to think about. So you're kind of, yeah, you have this, you're the prisoner in the prison guard at the same time. And I had Abigail Shryer on the show. She was to wrote this book called Bad Therapy, sort of pushing back against therapy culture for kids, specifically for kids. But there was a blast radius that covered pretty much everything, including kind of CBT. I'm like, we're getting perilously close to some really evidence-based stuff here. But the more that I've thought about it and the more that I've looked at the evidence, there is basically a direct correlation between how much you think about yourself and how miserable you are.

嗯，我有点像给自己制造了斯德哥尔摩综合症，因为我喜欢思考这些事情。而你提供了无限多的思考素材。所以有点像，你既是囚徒又是狱警。我请了Abigail Shrier来参加我的节目。她写了一本书叫《坏疗法》，有点像是在反对针对儿童的治疗文化，特别是针对孩子的。不过，这本书引起的反响波及到几乎所有的东西，包括认知行为疗法（CBT）。我觉得，我们正在危险地接近一些真正有实证依据的东西。但是，我思考得越多，查看证据越多，几乎可以直接得出一个结论：你越是自我反省，就越容易感到痛苦。

Therapy is great if it lets you vent and it solves the thing and then accession later is you're done, you're clear. But if you're just looping on the same thing forever, then it's actually the opposite. You're bathing in it, you're indulging in it. Yeah. Yeah. Have you all become happy techniques developed over time? Yeah. I used to have a lot of them. Now I kind of try not to have any because I think the techniques themselves are kind of a struggle. It's sort of like bidding for status implies your little status. It reveals that your little status. So someone who's basically trying to show off comes across as little status. The same way someone who's trying to be happy is sort of saying, I'm unhappy in creating that frame. So it's better just to not even think in terms of position yourself as being in lack in order to attain.

如果治疗能够让你发泄、解决问题，然后你就清清楚楚、轻松自在，那当然是很好的。但是，如果你一直陷在同一个问题里，反而是在沉溺其中，对你的情况没有帮助。随着时间的推移，你有没有发现自己变得更快乐？我曾经有很多自以为是的方法，但现在我尽量不去使用它们，因为这些方法本身就是一种挣扎。有点像想要显示地位的人，其实是在表明他们的地位不高。同样，努力让自己快乐的人，其实是在暗示自己不快乐。因此，最好是不要用缺乏的心态来定位自己，以达到某种目标。

Yeah. I don't even think in terms of happiness, unhappiness anymore. I just kind of just do my thing. Again, another question that's similar to a bunch of them. Do you think you could have got that? How'd you have not done the procedural systematic sort of step by step? This is what it is and then come out the other side. I don't think they're any formulas. I think it's unique to each person. It's like asking a successful person, how did you become successful? To one of them will give you a different story. You can't follow anyone else's path. Most of them are even probably telling you some narrow-tized version of it that isn't quite true.

是的，我现在甚至不再从快乐或不快乐的角度思考了。我就是按照自己的方式去做。又一个类似很多的问题：你认为如果没有采取这种程序化、系统性的逐步方式，你能达到那个结果吗？我不认为有任何通用公式。我觉得每个人的经历都是独特的。就好比你问一个成功人士：你是怎么成功的？每个人都会告诉你不同的故事。你无法复制别人的道路。大多数人甚至可能告诉你一个经过加工的版本，未必是完全真实的。

That's something that I continually realize, especially as I get to spend more time around people that are successful, and you hear it's very important to prioritize work-life balance. That's one of the most common things that people who have attained success say, that's not my experience. But if you look at it, you shouldn't be asking somebody who is successful what they do to continue their success now. You should be asking them what did they do to attain their success when they are why you were. The people who are really extraordinarily successful didn't sit around watching success porn. They just went and did it. They had such an overwhelming desire to be successful at the thing that they were doing, that they just went and did that thing.

这是一件我不断意识到的事情，特别是当我有机会与更多成功人士相处时，他们常常提到工作与生活平衡的重要性。但这并不是我的经验。实际上，你不应该只询问成功人士他们现在为了维持成功做了什么，而应该问他们在你现在的位置时，是怎么努力获得成功的。那些真正非常成功的人并不是停下来光看别人成功的故事，而是直接去做。他们对自己所追求的成功有着极度的渴望，因此他们就去做了那些事情。

They didn't have time to study and learn and listen and they just did it. It's the overwhelming desire that's the most important and the focus that comes from that. It's a tweet of yours that was people who are good at making wealth or people who are good at attaining wealth don't need to teach anybody else how to do it. Yeah, you don't need mentors. You need action. That was one of them. The other one is the people who actually know how to make money, you don't need to sell your course on it. There's lots of variations on it. But if you don't lie awake at night thinking about it, you don't want it badly enough.

他们没有时间去研究、学习和聆听，他们只是去做了。最重要的是那种强烈的欲望，以及由此而来的专注力。你曾发过一条推文，说那些善于创造财富的人不需要教别人怎么去做。是的，你不需要导师，你需要的是行动。这是其中一个观点。另一个是，那些真正知道如何赚钱的人不需要出售关于赚钱的课程。有很多类似的说法。但如果你晚上不因为这个而失眠，说明你对它的渴望还不够强烈。

Yeah, I think I've heard you talk before about how to unclose loops problems that you're working on can cause you to be sleepless. I'm not a good sleeper. Tell me about that. Oh, I mean, my eight sleep hates me. It's all in the end. I feel that sleeping again, Brian Johnson thinks I'm going to die or these probably right. How much do you reckon you sleep at night? You got any idea? Oh, it's so random. Some nights I sleep eight hours. Some nights I sleep four hours. But it's literally just random. Are you bothered about that? No. You're trying to optimize. You go sleep coach teaching you how to. I don't vlog myself over things. If I want to sleep, I'll sleep. If I don't want to sleep, I don't sleep. It's not a. I don't think I'm doing anything right already. I don't label it good night, bad night. No, I work out every day because I think it gives me more energy and I've gotten into a good habit with it.

是的，我想我以前听你说过，你在处理那些未解决的问题时会睡不着。我本身也不是个好睡的人。可以跟我聊聊吗？哦，我的意思是，我的八小时睡眠对我来说是奢望。总之，我感觉重新入睡很难，而Brian Johnson认为我会因此挂掉，可能他是对的。你觉得你晚上能睡多久？你心里有数吗？哦，这完全随机。有些晚上我能睡八个小时，有些晚上只能睡四个小时，真的很随机。你对此在意吗？不在意。你有试着去优化睡眠吗？有没有睡眠教练教你怎么调整？我不会刻意去强迫自己。如果我想睡，我就睡；如果不想睡，就不睡。没什么特别的。我不觉得我在做什么对或错的事。我不会给它下个好或坏的定义。不，我每天都锻炼，因为我觉得这样让我更有活力，而且我已经养成了这个好习惯。

Maybe I'll do the same thing with sleep. Maybe I'll develop a good habit. But I'm not going to beat myself up over it. It'll come a point where it's important to me. It's important to me. I'll just do it. Most of. For example, you'll get people with addictions, overeating or smoking or whatever. They can kind of go through all the different methods, but it's half-hearted. And then one day they're like, oh, shit, I've got lung cancer. I need to do this. I need to do this. I need to do this. I need to do this. I need to do this. I need to do this. I need to do this. I need to do this. Controlling. Then it is about forcing yourself or trying to domesticate yourself. It's efficiency, again, I guess. Aligning the thing that you want to do with the way that you feel about what it is that you want to do.

也许我也该在睡眠上做同样的事情，也许我会养成一个好习惯。但我不会因此责备自己。会有一个时刻，让我觉得这很重要。对我来说很重要。我会去做的。大多数情况下。例如，有些人有上瘾行为，比如暴饮暴食或吸烟等。他们可能尝试了各种方法，但都是半心半意的。然后有一天，他们突然意识到，“天哪，我得了肺癌，我需要改变。” 控制住自己比强迫自己或试图改变自己更重要。我想这又是一种效率的体现，把你想做的事情与自己对这件事情的感受对齐。

Yeah. It's not getting caught up in and a half desire or a mimetic desire. It's really just being aware of what it is that you actually want at this point in time. When you want something, then you will act on it with maximal capability. And that's the time to act on it. The meantime, just doing it because other people tell you you should do it or society tells you you should do it or you feel slightly guilty about it. These are half-hearted efforts and half-hearted efforts don't get you there. As you get older, one thing that becomes harder to ignore is your testosterone levels. They impact everything from your energy to your mood and how well you recover. However, there are signs back supplements like Toncat that support testosterone, strength and recovery.

好的。这段话的意思是，不要被一种不完整的欲望或模仿的欲望所困扰，而是要真正意识到此刻你实际上想要的是什么。当你真的想要某样东西时，你会以最大的能力去实现它，这才是付诸行动的好时机。相反，仅仅因为别人告诉你应该这样做或因为社会的压力、甚至因为略带负罪感而去做，那都是半心半意的努力，而这样的努力通常不会成功。随着年龄的增长，有件事你可能越来越无法忽视，那就是你的睾酮水平。睾酮影响着你的能量、心情以及恢复能力。不过，有一些支持睾酮、强化体力和加速恢复的补充剂，比如东革阿里（Toncat）。

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Check out that's L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S.com, slash modemwistem, and modemwistem. A checkout. You mentioned anxiety before. Imagine how effective you'd be if you weren't anxious all the time. One of yours, anxiety is the emotion to sure of the 21st century. And lots of driven people, very anxious, very paranoid. That's what's caused them to be effective. They pay so much attention, detail oriented, not letting things go. Staying up at night, thinking about it. That's the paranoia coming in. What have you come to learn about anxiety and dealing with it? So anxiety and stress are interesting. They're very related. This is when, if you look at an iron beam, an iron beam is under stress, it's because it's being bent in two different directions at the same time.

请查看这个网址：L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S.com，斜杠 modemwistem，以及 modemwistem。您提到过焦虑。想象一下，如果您不总是感到焦虑，您会有多高效。焦虑是21世纪的代表情绪之一。许多有进取心的人常常感到非常焦虑，非常多疑。这种状态让他们变得高效，因为他们非常注重细节，不轻易放过任何事情。甚至夜不能寐，反复思考。这就是焦虑的一种表现。那么，您对焦虑及其应对方式有什么体会呢？焦虑和压力很有趣，它们关系密切。打个比方，如果您观察一个铁梁，铁梁承受着压力是因为它同时被向两个不同方向弯曲。

When your mind is under stress, it's because it has two conflicting desires at once. For example, you want to be liked, but you want to do something selfish, and you can't reconcile the two. You're under stress. You want to do something for somebody else. You want to do something for yourself. You don't want to go to work, but you want to make money. You're under stress. You have two conflicting desires. I think one of the ways to get through stress is to acknowledge that, oh, I actually have two conflicting desires. Either I need to resolve it. I need to pick one and then be okay losing the other. I will decide later, but at least just being aware of why your stress can help alleviate a lot of stress.

当你的思维感到压力时，是因为同时存在两个相互冲突的愿望。比如，你希望被别人喜欢，但又想做一些自私的事情，而这两者无法调和，于是你感到压力。你想为别人做一些事情，但同时也想为自己做一些事。你不想上班，但又想赚钱，这让你感到压力。你有两个冲突的愿望。我认为应对压力的方法之一是承认自己确实存在两个矛盾的愿望。要么解决它，要么选择其中一个，然后接受可能失去另一个的事实。虽然可以以后再决定，但至少意识到压力的原因可以帮助缓解许多压力。

Anxiety, I think, is this pervasive, unidentifiable stress, where you're just stressed out all the time and you're not even sure why. You can't even identify the underlying problem. The reason for that is because you have so many unresolved problems, unresolved stress points that have piled up in your life that you can no longer identify what the problems are. There's this mountain of garbage in your mind and it's a little bit of it poking out the top like an iceberg, and that's anxiety. But underneath, there's a lot of unresolved things. You just need to go through very carefully every time you're anxious. Why am I anxious this time? I don't know why. Well, let me sit here and just think about it.

焦虑，我觉得是一种无处不在、不易察觉的压力。你总是感到紧张，却不知原因。你无法确定根本的问题。原因在于你生活中积累了太多未解决的问题和压力点，以至于已经无法辨认出具体问题是什么。你的脑海里就像是一座垃圾山，只有一小部分在水面上露出来，就像是冰山一角，这就是焦虑。但在水下，还有大量未解决的事情。每次感到焦虑时，你需要仔细分析。为什么这次我会感到焦虑？我也不知道为什么。那么，就坐下来好好想想。

Let me write down what the possible causes could be. Let me meditate on it. Let me journal. Let me talk to a therapist. Let me talk to my friends. Let me just kind of see when does that stress go away. If you can kind of identify and unravel and resolve these issues, then I think that helps get rid of anxiety. A lot of the anxiety is piled up because we move through life too quickly, not observing our own reactions to things. We don't resolve them. So this goes counter to what I was saying earlier about not reflecting too much on things. But you reflect on the problems to observe them and solve them. You don't reflect on them to feel better about yourself.

让我写下可能的原因，让我好好思考这个问题，让我记录下来，让我和治疗师聊一聊，让我和朋友们谈谈。让我看看这些压力什么时候会消失。如果你能识别、解开并解决这些问题，我认为那会有助于缓解焦虑。我们之所以积累了很多焦虑，是因为我们生活节奏太快，没有观察自己对事物的反应，也没有解决它们。这和我之前说的不对事情过多反思的观点相反。但这里的反思是为了观察和解决问题，而不是为了让自己感觉更好。

To install them. Well, if you're doing it to just feel better about yourself, that could be strengthening your personality and your ego and could be creating a more fragile personality. One big anxiety resolve for me is just room-nitting on death. I think that's a good one. You're going to die. It's all going to zero. You cannot take anything with you. I know this is trite. We don't spend enough time thinking about the big questions. We kind of give up on them when we're very, very young. A little child might ask the big questions like, why are we here? What's the meaning of life? What is it all about? Is there Santa Claus? Is there God? But then as adults, we're taught not to think about these things.

安装这些东西。如果你只是为了让自己感觉良好而去做，这可能会强化你的个性和自我，反而可能形成一个更脆弱的性格。对我来说，一个重要的缓解焦虑的方法就是思考死亡。我觉得这个方法不错。你会死去，一切都会归零，什么也带不走。我知道这听起来老生常谈。我们没有花足够的时间去思考这些重要的问题。在我们很小的时候，就好像放弃了。小孩子可能会问一些大问题，比如：我们为什么在这里？生命的意义是什么？这一切是为了什么？圣诞老人真的存在吗？上帝存在吗？但作为成年人，我们被教导不要去想这些事情。

We're given up on them. But I think the big questions are the big questions for good reasons. If you can keep the idea in front of you at all times that you're going to die and that everything goes literally to zero, what's your distress about? Yeah. For better or worse, life is very short. How should people deal with it's briefness? Enjoy it. Make the best of it. It's even briefer than that. Each moment just disappears. It's gone. There's only a present moment and it's gone instantly. If you're not there for it, if you're stressed out or you're anxious or you're thinking about something else, you missed it.

我们已经放弃了他们。但是，我认为这些重大问题之所以重要，是有充分理由的。如果你能一直记住自己终有一死，且一切最终都会归零，还为什么要感到痛苦呢？没错，无论好坏，生命都非常短暂。人们应如何应对生命的短暂呢？享受它，尽量去珍惜它。生命甚至比我们想象的还要短暂。每一刻都在消逝，一瞬即逝。只有当下这一刻，它瞬间就过去了。如果你不在场，如果你很有压力、焦虑或想着其他事情，你就错过了这一刻。

Any moment when you're not in that moment, you are dead to that moment. You might as well be dead because your mind is off doing something else or living in some imagined reality that is just a very poor substitute for the actual reality. One of my recent realizations was, what is wasted time? What is the waste of time? I don't like to waste time, but what is wasted time? It's wasting time in a sense because nothing matters in the ultimate. But in each moment, the thing matters. In each moment, it's the only thing that matters, actually, what's happening in front of you is literally has all the meaning in the world.

任何时候当你没有活在当下，你就失去了那个时刻的意义。你的心思跑到别处，或者沉浸在某种想象中的虚幻现实里，这是对真实现实的一个非常苍白的替代。最近我有一个新的领悟，什么是浪费时间？我不喜欢浪费时间，但什么才叫浪费时间呢？从某种意义上说，我们的确在浪费时间，因为从终极来看，没有什么是真正重要的。但在每一个当下，事情是重要的。在每一个当下，眼前发生的事情实际上是唯一重要的，拥有着整个世界的意义。

What matters is just being present for the thing. If you're doing something that you want to do and you're fully there for it, then it's not wasted time. If you don't want to do it, and your mind is running away from it, and you're reacting against it, and you're wishing you were somewhere else, and you're thinking about some other thing, or you're anticipating some future thing, or regretting some past thing, or being fearful of something, then that's wasted time. That's time that's being wasted when you're not actually present for the reality in front of you.

重要的是专注于当下。如果你在做自己想做的事情，并全身心投入，那么这段时间就没有浪费。如果你不想做这件事，心思不停地游离，抗拒、希望身在别处、想着别的事情、期盼未来某件事、后悔过去某件事或是恐惧某个东西，那么这样的时间就被浪费了。因为你没有真正活在眼前的现实当中，这些时间就算作浪费。

So my definition of wasted time, yes, I do want some material things in life, and there are things that have more value than others within this life. But this life is very short and bounded. So the true wasted time is a time that you are not present for when you are not there for it. You're not doing the thing you want to do to the best of a kitball to such that you're immersed. If you're not immersed in this moment, then you're wasting your time. People get worried about dying and no longer being here, but they don't realize that so much of their life has been not being here in any case. That's right.

在我看来，浪费时间的定义是这样的：是的，我在生活中确实想要一些物质上的东西，而且在这个世界上，确实有的东西比其他东西更有价值。但是，这一生又短又有限。真正的浪费时间，就是你不专注的时候，就是你不在场的时候。你没有全心投入做你想做的事情，没有让自己沉浸其中。如果你没有沉浸在当下这个时刻，那就是在浪费时间。人们常为生命的终结而担忧，但他们没有意识到，实际上他们的人生有很大一部分时间都没有真正享受生活。没错。

But I think people crave being here for it. And when you're here for it, you're actually not thinking about yourself. You are more immersed in the thing that the moment, the task at hand. You don't want peace of mind. We want peace for our mind. That's right. Yeah, the mind is what you'll eat you alive if you let it. And there's more to you than the mind. How so? Well, I mean, I don't want to disassemble the body.

但我认为人们渴望身临其境。当你真正投入到其中时，你其实并没有想着自己，而是更加专注于当下、手头的事情。我们并不需要内心的宁静。我们想要的是让心灵获得安宁。没错，是这样的。如果你放任不管，心灵会吞噬你。不过，你不仅仅只有心灵。怎么说呢？嗯，我并不是想要分析身体的构造。

So speak right. Please go on. Yeah, at the end of the day, everything arises within your consciousness. You got nowhere else to experience it. It's right. You've got nowhere else to experience it. And that consciousness is relatively static in a sense that it's been exactly the same for the moment you were born to the moment you die. And everything that you experienced from your body, from your mind to the world to everything is within that consciousness.

那么，请说得准确些。请继续。是的，归根结底，一切都在你的意识中产生。你没有其他地方可以体验它。这是对的，你没有其他地方可以体验它。而这种意识在某种意义上相对静止，从你出生到你去世，它一直都是一样的。你所经历的一切，无论是来自你的身体、思想还是外部世界，都在这意识之中。

And that thing, that base layer of being, and this is what the Buddhist will tell you, is the real thing. Everything that comes and goes in the middle, including your mind, including your body is unreal. And trying to find stability in those transient things is your castle that you're building on sand that's going to crumble. Life is going to play out the way it's going to play out. There will be some good and some bad. Most of it is actually just up to your interpretation.

那个东西，也就是存在的基础层，这就是佛教徒会告诉你的，是真实的东西。所有中间来去的事物，包括你的心智和身体，都是不真实的。在这些易逝的事物中寻找稳定性，就像在沙子上建城堡，终究会崩塌。生活会按照它自己的方式展开，有好的也有坏的。大多数情况下，这实际上取决于你的解读。

You're born. You have a set of sensory experiences. And then you die. How you choose to interpret those experiences is up to you and different people interpret them in different ways. Yeah, I see all line about two people walking down the street. They're having the exact same experience. One is one is happy. One is sad. It's a narrative in their heads. It's how they choose to interpret.

你出生了，经历了一系列感官体验，然后就去世了。如何解读这些体验是由你自己决定的，不同的人会以不同的方式来解读它们。就像我看到的一个场景：两个人走在街上，他们的经历完全相同，但其中一个感到快乐，另一个却感到悲伤。这是他们头脑中的故事，是他们选择如何解读的结果。

So I think when I said that, it was a long time ago, I was talking more about having positive interpretations and negative interpretations. But these days, I think it's better just not to have any interpretations and to just allow things to be. You're still going to have interpretations. You can't stop it. And nor should you try. But even that having an interpretation is just a thing you can leave alone.

所以我想，当我说那番话的时候，那已经是很久以前的事了，当时我在讲积极解读和消极解读。然而现在，我觉得最好不做任何解读，只是让事情自然发生。你还是会有一些解读的，这是无法避免的，也不需要刻意去阻止。但即便有了解读，也只是个可以不去理会的东西。

Yeah, I really want to try and just dig in a little more to the best way to remind people that they should value their time. Just how brief it is that the time that you spend ruminating, being distracted, fears of the past, regrets. Well, I don't want to tell anybody how to live their life. I would just say that to the extent that you want to improve your quality of life, the easiest and best way to do that is to observe your own mind and your own thoughts and be a little, not necessarily critical, but be observing of yourself more objectively.

是的，我真的想多探索一下如何更好地提醒人们珍惜时间。时间是如此短暂，而你花在沉思、分心、害怕过去和懊悔上的时间也很有限。不过，我不想告诉任何人该如何生活。我只想说，如果你想提高生活质量，最简单和最好的方法就是观察自己的内心和想法。不是要求对自己过于苛刻，而是更客观地审视自己。

And then you'll kind of realize your own loops and patterns. It takes time. It's not overnight. It's not instantaneous. You mean letting go is not a one-time event? Yeah. And letting go is not necessarily even the right answer. Like, yes, if you're trying to be in a lightened being and you want to live like a god and everything is going to be perfect and you'll be a Buddha, sure you can let go. But I think in practice, it's actually quite hard to do.

然后你会慢慢意识到自己的循环和模式。这个过程需要时间，不是一夜之间就能完成的，也不是瞬间的。你是说放下并不是一次性事件吗？是的。而且放下并不一定是唯一的解决方案。比如说，如果你想成为一个开悟的人，像神一样生活，一切都完美无瑕，你也会成为一个佛，那当然你可以选择放下。但我认为在现实中，这其实是很难做到的。

I think I would say that it's, you're going to find a lot of fulfillment out of life by just doing what you want to do and genuinely exploring what it is that you want rather than doing what other people expect you to do or society expects you to do or what you might just think should be done by default. You know, I think most older, successful people will tell you that their life was best when they lived unapologetically on their own terms. Be selfish.

我认为你会发现，当你真心追求自己想做的事情，而不是迎合他人或社会的期望，或者只是随波逐流时，生活会带来很多满足感。很多成功的长者都会告诉你，当他们不妥协，坚持活出自己的风格时，他们的生活是最精彩的。要懂得为自己而活。

Holistic selfishness. Exactly. We can clip that little piece of selfish. I'm telling you, that's a good, bad guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good thing. Just keep running about. Bad guy. Great. I had this insight. I question, I guess, how much do you think that we should trust the voice in our heads? Because half of wisdom suggests to rely on your sort of bottom-up intuition and then half of it has to be sort of top-down rational as possible.

整体自私。没错。我们可以把自私这个小部分切出来。我告诉你，这就是个好坏人。是的是的，这是一件好事。继续讨论坏人。太好了。我有了这个想法。我想知道，你认为我们应该在多大程度上信任内心的声音？因为智慧的一半建议依赖自下而上的直觉，而另一半则应该尽可能自上而下地理性思考。

How do you navigate the tension between head and gut in this way? I think the gut is what decides. The head is kind of what rationalizes it afterwards. The gut is the ultimate decision maker. If it doesn't, and what is the gut? The gut is refined judgment. It's taste. Aggregate. Aggregate it. And it could be aggregated through evolution and send your genes and your DNA or it could be aggregated through your experiences and what you've thought through. The mind is good at solving new problems and new problems in the external world that have defined edges, beginnings and ends and objectives.

你如何在这种情况下平衡头脑和直觉之间的紧张关系？我认为直觉才是最终的决策者。头脑只是事后为其做出合理化解释。直觉可以理解为经过提炼的判断力，也就是品味。它是一个综合体，这种综合体可能是通过进化形成的，深植于你的基因和DNA中，也可能是通过你生活中的经验和思考积累下来的。头脑善于解决新的问题，特别是那些有明确界限、开端、结束和目标的外部世界的问题。

What the mind is actually really bad at is making hard decisions. When you have a hard decision to make, I find it's better to, yes, you ruminate on it, you think through all the pros and cons, but then you sleep on it. You wait a couple of days. You wait until the gut answer appears with conviction and it feels right. When you're younger, it takes longer because you just don't have as much experience. When you're older, it can happen much faster, which is why you have less time to develop.

人们在做重大决定时，实际上很不擅长。当你需要做一个艰难的决定时，我发现最好是先仔细考虑，分析所有的利弊，然后放一放，过几天再说。等到某种直觉性的答案浮现，让你感到坚定并合适为止。年轻时，做出这样的决定可能需要更长的时间，因为经验不足。而年纪大一些的话，这个过程会快很多，所以发展的时间往往更少。

And all people are more set in their way as a consequence. They know what they want. They know what they don't want. It takes time to develop your gut instinct and judgment. Once you've developed them, don't trust anything else because you can't go against your gut. It'll bite you in the end. Usually in relationships that fail, you can look back and say, oh, actually, I knew it was going to fail because of this reason, but I kind of went ahead anyway because I wanted it to be this way.

所有人随着年龄增长会在自己的生活方式上变得更加坚定。他们知道自己想要什么，也知道自己不想要什么。培养直觉和判断力需要时间。一旦你发展了这些能力，不要相信其他任何东西，因为你无法违背自己的直觉，否则最终可能会后悔。在那些最终失败的关系中，通常可以回想起来说：“哦，其实我知道它会失败，因为某个原因，但我还是继续下去了，因为我希望事情变成那样。”

I wanted this person to be a different way than they are. I wanted to get a different thing out of it than I thought I was going to get. But I just wanted it. Sometimes desire will override your judgment and then track you. I wish for thinking. It traps you into a pathway that just chooses time. That's inside of yours. We think we can't change ourselves, but we can. We think we can change other people, but we can't.

我希望这个人能跟我期待的不一样。我希望从中得到不同的东西，而不是我原以为会得到的。但我就是想要。有时候，欲望会超过你的判断，并且困住你。我希望是这样。欲望会让你走上一条只消耗时间的道路。这在你的内心深处。我们以为自己无法改变，但其实可以。我们认为可以改变别人，但实际上却不能。

Exactly. I think it's add to that. You can't change other people. You can change your reaction to them. You can change yourself. But other people only change through trauma or their own insight on their own schedule and never in a way that you like. Yeah. I'll under button and say that people do sometimes change, but rarely in relationships and never when they're told to. Absolutely. It's the fastest way to kind of alienate somebody to tell them to change.

确切地说，我认为补充一点：你不能改变别人，但你可以改变自己对他们的反应和自己。别人只会通过创伤或在他们自己的时间表上通过自己的领悟来改变，并且这种改变永远不会是你喜欢的方式。没错，我想补充一点，人们有时确实会改变，但很少是在关系中改变，而且绝不是在被告知要改变的时候。确实，告诉别人去改变是最快让他们疏远你的方法。

In fact, the Dale Carnegie School of Public Speaking, the way that operates is they get you up there and they realize that the number one problem with public speaking is that people are very self-conscious. People who are practicing in the Dale Carnegie School of Public Speaking, I don't know. I never went through it. I heard the second hence. I could be wrong, but I like the story where they get up and they start speaking and the people in the audience are only allowed to compliment them.

实际上，戴尔·卡耐基演讲学校的运作方式是让学员站到台上发言，他们认识到演讲的最大问题是人们容易过于自我意识。参加戴尔·卡耐基演讲学校训练的人，我不是很了解，因为我没有亲身经历过，我是从别人那里听来的，所以可能不完全正确。但我喜欢这样一个故事：当学员上台演讲时，观众只能对他们进行赞美。

Genuine compliments, not fake compliments on things that they did well, but you're not allowed to criticize them on things that they did poorly and eventually they kind of get through it and they develop self-confidence. The same way, there's like the Michelle Thomas School of Language Learning and on that one what they do is you listen to a teacher talking to a student. They're not teaching you, you're not expected to remember or memorize anything. You just listen to a student stumbling over the language and it's a better way to learn because you yourself don't feel flustered you're being tested, graded.

给出真实的赞美，而不是虚假的赞美，针对他们做得好的事情进行表扬。但是，你不能批评他们做得不好的地方。这样一来，他们会逐渐克服困难，培养自信。就像米歇尔·托马斯语言学习法一样，在这个方法中，你只是听老师和学生的对话。老师并不是直接教你，也不需要你记住或背诵任何东西。你只是听学生在语言学习中犯错，这样学起来更有效，因为你自己不会感到紧张或像是被测试、评分。

You're not in your own head as much. Correct, you're not in your own head and you might even be laughing at the student or you might be agreeing with a teacher or vice versa or sympathizing with a student, but because you are a passive observer, you're more objective about it and you aren't threatened or fearful and you can learn better. Coming back to the original point of you can't change people. If you do want to change someone's behavior, I think the only effective way to do it is to compliment them when they do something you want.

你不再那么沉浸在自己的思绪中了。对的，因为你不再沉浸在自己的思绪中，所以你可能会在旁边笑着看学生，或者同意老师的观点，或者相反，或者同情学生。但因为你是一个被动的旁观者，所以你能更加客观地看待问题，不会感到威胁或恐惧，并且可以更好地学习。回到最初的观点：你不能改变别人。如果你真的想改变某人的行为，我认为唯一有效的方法就是在他们做出你期望的行为时给予赞美。

Positive, right? Exactly, not to insult them or be negative or critical when they do something you don't want. We can't help it. It's obviously in our nature to criticize and I do it as well, but it just reminds me that when somebody does something praiseworthy, don't forget to praise them. Definitely go out of your way to praise them. It'll be genuine. It has to be genuine. It can't be a fake thing.

积极的，对吧？没错，不要在他们做了你不喜欢的事情时侮辱他们或带有负面或者批评的态度。我们可能难以避免这种情况，这显然是我们的天性，我自己也会这样做，但这提醒了我，当有人做了值得表扬的事时，不要忘记去表扬他们。一定要特意去表扬他们。要是真诚的，必须是真诚的，不能是敷衍。

This is not one of those just dropping compliments type thing. Eventually that people will see through that. They want authenticity, but just don't forget to praise people when they do something praiseworthy and you'll get more of that behavior. There was a really famous thread on Reddit about five questions to ask yourself if you're uncertain about your relationship. One of the questions was, are you truly in love with your partner or just their potential or the idea of them? And that's the, you know, they show such great promise. Look at their ability for change and growth. They're on the right path.

这不是那种随便恭维的做法。最终，人们会看穿这一点。他们想要的是诚恳，但当别人做得好的时候，也别忘了给予赞美，这样你会看到更多这样的行为。在Reddit上有一个很有名的帖子，讨论的是在对自己的关系感到不确定时，可以问自己的五个问题。其中一个问题是，你是真正爱着你的伴侣，还是只爱上了他们的潜力或者他们的理念？就是那种，他们看起来很有前途，能够改变和成长，走在正确的道路上。

The partner matching thing is so hard. You know, when people come and ask me like, oh, should I be with this person like, well, if you're asking me, it's true. It's clearly though, right? Because you wouldn't have to ask if you were with the right person or when you asked someone like why they're in a relationship with somebody and they start reading out his or her resume.

选择合适的伴侣真的很难。你知道的，当有人来问我，比如说，"我应该和这个人在一起吗？" 我会想，如果你来问我，那答案应该是否定的，对吧？因为如果你跟合适的人在一起，你就不会来问这个问题。或者当你问某人为什么和某人在一起时，他们开始像读简历一样描述对方。

That's also a bad sign. It's how, what do you mean? I was like, oh, we have so much in common. We like to golf together. It's not a basis for a relationship or, oh, is she's a ballerina or, you know, he went to Harvard or what have you. This is a resume item. So that's not who the person actually is. What's the better answer? I just love being with this person. I just trust them. I enjoy being around them. I love how capable he is. I love how kind she is. You know, I love her spirit. I love his energy.

这也是一个不好的信号。你是怎么理解的？我当时的想法是，我们有那么多共同点，比如我们一起打高尔夫。这并不是建立关系的基础。又或者，她是一名芭蕾舞演员，或者他说是哈佛毕业的，这些都是简历上的东西，不是真正代表这个人的本质。那么，什么才是更好的答案呢？就是单纯地爱和这个人在一起的感觉，信任他们，喜欢和他们在一起的时光。比如我爱他多么能干，我爱她多么善良，我爱她的精神，我爱他的活力。

The more materially and concretely definable the reasons are you're together the worst they are. The ineffable is actually what the sort of true love lies. Because real love is a form of unity. It's a form of connection. It's connecting spirits. Oh, you too. My consciousness meets your consciousness. So the underlying drive in love, in art, in science, in mysticism is the desire for unity. It's a desire for connection. As, you know, Bore has famously wrote in every human, there's a sense that something infinite has been lost.

在一起的理由越具体、越物质，反而可能越不好。真正的爱其实存在于那些无法言喻的东西中，因为真爱是一种合一，是一种连接，是灵魂的链接。哦，你也是，我的意识与你的意识相遇。因此，爱、艺术、科学和神秘主义中的基本动力是对合一的渴望，是对连接的渴望。正如波尔著名地写道，每个人内心都有一种无限的东西已经失去的感觉。

You know, there's a god-shaped hole in you. You're trying to fill. And so we're always trying to find that connection. Love is trying to find it in one other person and saying, okay, you're male. I'm female or whatever. And you know, whatever your part of the lictions are. And now we connect. Now we form a whole connected hole. Or in mysticism, it's like, it's all about, okay, sit down, meditate, and you'll feel the whole in science.

你知道吗，在你心里有一个神形的空洞，你一直在努力填补。所以我们总是试图找到那种连接。爱情就是试图在另一个人身上找到这种连接，并说，好吧，你是男性，我是女性，或者不论你们的角色是什么。然后我们连接起来，形成一个完整的整体。而在神秘主义中，这就像是说，好，坐下来冥想，你会感受到科学中的整体。

It's like, oh, you know, Adam's bouncing is mechanics, but that generates heat. So thermodynamics and motion or kinetics are one combined theory. That's a whole electricity and magnetism or one thing. That's this whole creates that sense of awe. In art, it's like, I feel in emotion. I create a piece of art around it. And then you see that painting or do you see the sistine chapel or you read the poem and you feel that emotion.

这段话可以翻译为：就好像，你知道，亚当的跳跃反映了力学原理，但这也会产生热量。所以热力学和运动学其实是一种综合理论。这就像电和磁是一体的。这样的结合会让人产生一种敬畏感。在艺术方面，就像是我感受一种情感，然后围绕这种情感创作一件艺术作品。当你看到那幅画、欣赏西斯廷教堂的壁画或读到那首诗时，你会感受到那种情感。

So again, it's creating unity. It's creating connection. And I think everybody craves that. And so when you really love somebody, it's because you feel a sense of wholeness by being around them. And that sense of wholeness probably doesn't have anything to do with what school they went to. You know, or what career they're in. Just sort of tying that into the life is short.

所以，这又是在创造一种团结和联系。我认为每个人都渴望这种感觉。当你真的爱一个人的时候，是因为和他们在一起会让你感到完整。这种完整感可能与他们上的学校或从事的职业无关。这也与人生短暂这一事实息息相关。

Stop fucking about. If you're faced with a difficult choice and you cannot decide, the answer is no. And the reason is modern societies full of options. Yeah. Knowing this rationally sounds great. But having the courage to commit to it in reality, I think, is a different task. And cutting your losses quickly in the big three relationships, jobs and locations is hard. What would you say to someone who may cerebraly be able to agree with you and say, I understand it.

不要再浪费时间了。面对艰难选择而无法决定时，答案就是“不要”。原因是现代社会充满了各种选择。理智地理解这个道理很容易，但在现实中勇于坚持这一点却是另一回事。在人际关系、工作和地点这三个重要方面迅速止损是很困难的。对于那些在理论上可能同意你、并表示理解的人，你会怎么说呢？

My cousin said this about me. He said that he said what I really, he says what I've really noticed about you is your ability to walk away from situations that are just not great enough for you or not good enough for you. Yes. And I think that is a characteristic that I have. Well, I will not accept second best outcomes in my life. But ultimately, you will end up wherever is acceptable to you.

我表弟这样评价我。他说，他注意到我身上一个真正特别的品质，那就是我有能力从那些不够好的情况中走出来。是的，我也认为这是我的一个特点。我不会接受生活中次优的结果。不过，最终你会到达一个你能够接受的地方。

You will get out of life, whatever is acceptable to you. And there are certain things to me that are very, very important where I will not settle for second best. But then there are a lot of other things I just don't care about. Because if I spend all my time caring about those things, I don't have the energy for the few things that matter. And so in decision making, if you have a few heuristics for myself, other people can use their own, but minor, if you can't decide, the answer is no.

你从生活中得到的，只是你能接受的东西。对我来说，有些事情非常非常重要，我不会满足于次佳。但是还有很多事情我并不在意。因为如果我把所有时间都花在那些事情上，我就没有精力去关注那些重要的事情。所以在做决策时，我有一些自己的简单法则，其他人可以用他们自己的原则，而我的一个法则是：如果你无法决定，那么答案就是不。

If you're offered an opportunity, if you have a new thing that you're saying yes or no to, that is a change from where you're starting, the answer is by default always no. Secondly, if you have two decisions, if you have A or B and both seem like very equal, take the path that's more painful in the short term, the one that's going to be painful immediately. Because your brain is always trying to avoid pain. So any pain that is imminent, it is going to treat as much larger than it actually is. This is kind of like a decision-making equivalent of Talib's surgeon. Talib's surgeon, where you want the surgeon, it doesn't look as good because he's more likely to be a good surgeon.

如果你被提供了一个机会，面对一个需要做出“是”或“不是”决定的新事物，而这个新事物会改变你的现状，默认情况下，答案总是“否”。其次，如果你有两个选择，即A和B，而且两者看起来势均力敌，那么选择那个短期内更痛苦的选项，也就是那个马上会让你感到痛苦的选项。因为你的大脑总是在努力避免疼痛，因此会将任何即将到来的痛苦视为远比实际情况更大。这就像塔勒布的“外科医生原则”在决策中的应用。塔勒布的“外科医生原则”认为，你希望选择的外科医生，看起来未必是最光鲜的那一个，因为他更有可能是一个好医生。

Yeah, it's similar in that appearances are deceiving because you're avoiding conflict, you're avoiding pain. So take the path that is more painful in the short term because your brain is creating this illusion that the short term pain is greater than the long term pain because long term, yeah, you commit your future self to all kinds of long-term, manana, manana, exactly, manana. So take the more short term painful one. And then finally, the last one, which I would credit Coppil Gupta with, is that you want to take the choice that will leave you more equanimous in the long term.

是的，这有些相似，因为外表往往会迷惑我们，让我们逃避冲突和痛苦。所以，在短期内选择更痛苦的道路，因为大脑会给我们制造一种错觉，让我们觉得短期的痛苦比长期的更严重。而实际上，从长远来看，你会承诺自己一个充满各种长期“明日复明日”的生活。所以，选择短期内更痛苦的那条路。最后，我想感谢Coppil Gupta的观点，你应该选择一个能让你在长期内保持更多平和心态的决定。

By equanimous, he means like more peace, more mental peace in the long term. So whatever clears your mind more, and will have you having less self-talk in the future, if you can model that out, that is probably the better route to go. And then I would focus decision-making down on the three things that really matter because everything else is downstream of these three decisions, especially these are early life decisions. Later in life, you have different things to optimize for, but early in life, you're trying to figure out who you're with, what you're doing, and where you live.

他所说的“平静”是指更加持久的内心平和。因此，任何能让你头脑更清晰、减少自我对话的方法，都是更好的选择。我建议将注意力集中在三个真正重要的决策上，因为其他事情都是这三项决策的延伸，尤其是在你人生起步阶段。这三个重要的决策是：和谁在一起、做什么工作、住在哪里。人生后期，你可能有不同的优化目标，但在人生早期，这三个方面是你需要弄清楚的。

And I think on all three of those, you want to think pretty hard about it. And people do some of these unconsciously, you know, who you're with very often in life, well, we were in a relationship, we stumbled along, it felt okay, it had been enough time. So we got married, right? Not great reasons. Maybe not terrible reasons either. I mean, some people who overthink these things sometimes don't get the right answer, but maybe here, if you are the kind of person that's not going to settle for second best, you iterate, you iterate on a closed time frame, so you don't run out the clock, and then you decide.

在这三个方面，我觉得你需要认真思考。人们有时候习惯性地做出一些决定，比如说你和谁在一起得很频繁。有时候我们在一段关系中磕磕碰碰，感觉还不错，时间也足够长了，于是就结婚了，对吗？这些理由不是特别好，但也不一定很糟糕。有些人过度思考这些问题，结果反而没能找到正确的答案。但如果你是不愿意将就的人，你可以在设定的时间框架内多尝试，多思考，这样就不会拖延时间，然后再做决定。

On what you do, you try a whole bunch of different things until you find the one that feels like play to you, looks like work to others, you can't lose at it, get some leverage, try to find some practical application of it and go into that. And then where you live, where you live is really important. I don't think people spend enough time on that one. I think people pick cities randomly based on where I went to school or where my family happened to be or where my friend was or visited one weekend, I really liked it.

关于你做的事情，你可以尝试许多不同的方法，直到找到一个对你来说像玩耍、对别人来说像工作的方式。这样你就不会在这个过程中感到失败，还能获得一些优势。然后，努力找到这个方法的实际应用，继续深入发展下去。至于你住在哪里，这一点真的很重要。我觉得人们在这个问题上下得功夫还不够。很多人选择城市是因为上学时在那儿，或者因为家人、朋友在那里，或者只是某个周末去旅游时喜欢上了那个地方。

You really want to think it through because where you live really constraints and defines your opportunities. It's going to determine your friend's circle, it's going to determine your dating pool, it's going to determine your job opportunities, it's going to determine the food and air and water quality that you receive, it's going to determine your proximity to your family, which might be important as you get older and have kids. So very, very, very important decision, whether, you know, quality of life, how much you stay inside or outside and how long you'll live based on that.

你真的需要认真考虑，因为你居住的地方会严重限制和决定你的机会。它会影响你的朋友圈，影响你的约会对象，影响你的工作机会，影响你接触到的食物、空气和水的质量，也会影响你与家人的距离，这在你年纪大了或者有了孩子后可能特别重要。所以，这是一个非常非常重要的决定，它关系到你的生活质量、你是待在室内多还是户外多，以及你的寿命长短。

And I think people choose that one probably more poorly than they put a lot less thought into that one than the other two. In some ways, yeah, but also the, you're so right, how many people fall backward into a relationship and before they know it, we're living together, we got a dog, we got, can we marry, would you? Yeah, and then one of your kids, because then that's half of you and half of them running around, you're never going to separate yourself from that.

我觉得人们在这个问题上的选择可能并不太明智，他们往往没有像对待其他两个问题那样深思熟虑。在某些方面是这样的，不过你说得很对，有多少人不知不觉地进入了一段关系，然后很快就住到了一起，养了条狗，开始考虑结婚，还想要个孩子。因为孩子是你们两人的结合，以后无论如何，你都无法真正摆脱这段关系。

So once you have a child with somebody, then the most important thing in the world to use half that other person, whether you like them or not. Yeah. Jeffrey Miller had a tweet a long time ago that I always think about and he said, every parenting book in the world could be replaced with one book on behavioral genetics. That I'm a big believer in genetics. Yes, I do think a lot of behavior is downstream of genetics. And I think we underplay that.

一旦你和某人生了孩子，那么对你来说，世界上最重要的事情就是，你的孩子有一半源自于那个人，无论你对他喜欢与否。杰弗里·米勒早些时候发过一条推文，我总是想起那句话，他说所有育儿书籍都可以用一本关于行为遗传学的书替代。我很相信遗传学，确实认为很多行为是遗传的结果，而且我们通常低估了这一点。

We like to overplay nurture and underplay nurture for, I sort of say, underplay nature for societal reasons, but nature is a big deal. The temperament of the person you're married is probably going to be reflected in your child by default. People get changed. You want a security attached kid, pick a security attached partner. Well, the secret to a happy relationship is two happy people, right? Because I would say if you want to be happy, then be with a happy person. Don't think you're going to be with someone who's unhappy and then make them happy down the road. Or if you're okay with them being unhappy, but there are other things you like about them, that's fine. But this goes back to the common sense. Because they're unhappy with other things.

我们往往喜欢夸大后天环境的影响，而低估先天因素，我认为这更多是出于社会原因，但事实上，先天因素非常重要。你配偶的性情很可能会自然地反映在你的孩子身上。人是会改变的。如果你希望孩子拥有安全感，你就应该选择一个具有安全感的伴侣。那么，幸福关系的秘诀就是两个人都快乐，对吧？因为我会说，如果你想获得快乐，就要和一个快乐的人在一起。不要以为和一个不快乐的人在一起，然后期待你能让他们变得快乐。或者，如果你能接受他们的不快乐，但他们身上有其他你喜欢的地方，那也没关系。但这就回到了常识上，因为他们可能对其他事情感到不满。

Yes, yes. And actually, we talked a little bit about how people do connect successfully on spirit and those things. But that's maybe a little too abstract. If you want to give a little more practical, it could be based on values. The values are the set of things you won't compromise on. Values are the tough decisions of, oh, my parent got sick. Do they move in with us? Or do we put them in a nursing home? Do we give the children money or do we not? Do we move across the country to be closer to our family or do we stay put where we are? Do we argue about politics? Do we care or do we not? Values are way more important than checklist items.

是的，是的。实际上，我们之前谈到过人们如何在精神层面成功连接这些事情。但这些可能有点太抽象了。如果你想更实际一些，可以从价值观开始。价值观是一套你不愿妥协的事情。这些是一些困难的决策，例如，我的父母生病了，我们是否让他们搬来和我们住，还是把他们送到养老院？我们是否给孩子们钱，还是不给？我们是否搬到全国各地去靠近家人，还是留在我们现在的地方？我们是否要讨论政治问题？我们是否在乎这些？价值观比清单上的条目要重要得多。

And I think if people were to align much more on their values, they would have much more successful relationships. The emotional pain of a fearing change, I have this thing to job, the location, the partner, I'm going to enter or not enter this thing. For the most part, it's leaving. I think we have this sort of loss of ocean that we really feel. Evolved loss of vision. It's just painful separating yourself in front of your friends, it's embarrassing. How would you advise people to get past themselves with that loss of ocean? The figure of change.

我认为，如果人们能够更加在价值观上达成一致，他们的关系会更加成功。对变化的恐惧带来的情感痛苦，比如在工作、地点、伴侣方面的选择，是不是要进入某个境地，大多数情况下，我们是在离开。我觉得我们会感受到这种深深的失落感，可以说是一种进化后的视野损失。与朋友分开确实很痛苦，有时还会令人尴尬。你会给人们什么建议，帮助他们克服这种失落感，面对变化的恐惧呢？

Oh my god, I'm going to. Yes, the hardest thing in the world, starting over. It's back to the zero to one thing. It's the mountain climbing thing. You're not going to find your path to the top of the mountain and the first go around. Sometimes you go up there, you get stuck and you come back down. And the difference between all the successful people and the ones who are not is the ones who are successful, one is so badly, they're willing to go back and start over. Again and again, whether in their career or in their relationships or in anything else.

天啊，我要开始了。是的，从头再来是世界上最难的事情。这就像从零到一的过程，也像登山一样。你不可能在第一次尝试时就找到通往山顶的路。有时候你走上去了，却被困住了，只能下来。而成功人士与不成功人士之间的区别在于，成功的人有强烈的愿望，他们愿意一次又一次地回到起点重新开始。无论是在事业上、人际关系上，还是在其他任何方面。

The most serious that you take yourself, the unhappy you're going to be. You blunt how to take yourself less seriously? Well, fame doesn't help on that one because that is one of the traps of fame. People are always talking about you. They have a certain view of you and you start believing that and then you take yourself seriously and then that limits your own actions. You can't look like a fool anymore. You can't do new things anymore. Tomorrow I announced I'm a break dancer. That's going to be met with a lot of scorn and ridicule.

翻译如下：你越是把自己看得太严肃，就越不快乐。你想知道如何别把自己看得太严肃吗？出名对此没有帮助，因为名声是其中的一个陷阱。人们总是在谈论你，对你有某种特定的看法，你开始相信那些看法，然后你就开始严肃看待自己，这限制了你的行为。你不能再看起来像个傻瓜，不能再尝试新事物。比如如果我明天宣布我要成为一名霹雳舞舞者，这会遭到很多嘲笑和讽刺。

What if I want to be a break dancer? I'd back you if you want to make that happen. The truth is if I want to be a break dancer, I'd be break dancing. I'm starting a new company, zero to one again from scratch. Let's do it one more time and not just going and raising a big VC fund or retiring or what have you. That's because I want to build the product. I want to see it exist. I think that you constantly just have to force yourself. You have to remind yourself. Deep down, you're still the same Chris.

如果我想成为一名霹雳舞舞者怎么办？如果你想实现这个目标，我会支持你。事实上，如果我真的想做霹雳舞舞者，我就会去跳。现在我正在创立一个新公司，从零开始，再来一次。我不只是想筹集一大笔风险投资或退休之类的事。我想打造出产品，想看到它的存在。我认为你必须时刻逼迫和提醒自己。在内心深处，你仍然是那个原来的自己。

You were when you were nine years old. Deep down you're still a kid. You're still curious about the world. You still have a lot of the same part of the lixions and desires and wants. You've got a nice veneer on it. One of the nice things when you have kids is you realize how much closer they are to you in personality and knowledge and know-how. I look at my son who's eight and I just noticed like, wow, he probably has 60 to 80 percent of my knowledge and development with him and he's a lot more freedom and he has a lot more spontaneity and some ways he's smarter.

当你九岁时，你就是这样。内心深处你仍然是个孩子。你对世界依然充满好奇，依然有着许多相同的幻想、欲望和需求。你只是在表面上做得更好了。有孩子后，你会意识到他们在性格、知识和技能方面与你有多么接近。我看着我八岁的儿子，惊讶地发现，他可能拥有我60%到80%的知识和能力。他拥有更多的自由和自发性，有些方面甚至比我更聪明。

There's not a big gap here left to close. This kid's going to be done very soon. It caught up to me. To the extent that I think I know better or that I'm somewhere or that I'm someone, it's just an illusion. It's just a belief. What's the lineage between that and taking yourself too seriously? I shouldn't take myself too seriously because there's nothing here to take that seriously. If I take myself too seriously, then I'm going to get trapped.

这里没有留下太大的差距要去弥补。这个孩子很快就会完成。我突然意识到了这一点。我以为自己明白更多，以为自己有某种地位或身份，这只是个幻觉，只是种信念。那么，这和过于严肃地看待自己之间有什么关联呢？我不应该过于严肃地看待自己，因为这里其实没有什么值得如此认真对待。如果我过于认真地对待自己，就会陷入困境。

I'm going to circumscribe myself again into a limited set of behaviors and outcomes that keep me from being free, keep me from being spontaneous, keep me from being happy. It just goes back to that, don't think about yourself too much. There's a special type of pain in realizing that the advice that you need to hear right now is something that almost always you learned a long time ago. You're basically the same person you were as you were nine. A lot of the time people ask questions like, what advice do you wish that you would give yourself ten years ago? People ask themselves that question almost invariably. The advice that you would give yourself ten years ago is still the advice that you need to hear today. Absolutely.

我要再次把自己限定在一组有限的行为和结果中，这些行为和结果阻碍了我的自由、自发性和快乐。归根结底，就是不要过多地想着自己。意识到自己现在需要听的建议其实早在很久以前就已经学到，这种痛苦特别深刻。你基本上还是小时候的那个自己。很多时候，人们会问这样的问题：十年前你希望给自己什么建议？几乎每个人都会问自己这个问题。十年前你会给自己的建议，今天你仍然需要听到。确实如此。

That's why I did that exercise of thinking back 10 years, 20 years, 30 years ago, what advice would I give myself for me is just be less emotional. Don't take everything so seriously. Do the same things, but do them without all the emotional turbulence. That's the advice I'm giving myself going forward. It's funny how we need that distance to be able to be a little bit more objective, to have a little bit more perspective. It's almost a little bit of a trick because typically when you do that, you say, what would you tell a friend that was going through this? When you try and turn the advice to the friend around onto yourself, you always think, well, I'm not the friend. You're okay with you 10 years ago. There's enough distance in that. I actually am still that person. There's just a single line between that.

这就是为什么我要回想10年、20年、30年前的事情，尝试给自己建议：对我来说，就是要少一点情绪化。不要把一切都看得太严重。做同样的事情，但要在减少情绪波动的情况下去做。这是我给自己未来的建议。有趣的是，我们需要那种距离才能更客观一些，拥有更多的视角。这几乎像是一个小把戏，因为通常当你这样做时，你会说，如果你的朋友正在经历这种事，你会给他说什么建议？当你试图把给朋友的建议转到自己身上时，你总会想，我不是那个朋友。不过，当你面对10年前的自己时，你会更容易接受，因为有足够的距离。我实际上仍然是那个人，只不过在时间上有一条线连接着。

Related to this story is, I think, understanding is way more important than discipline. Now, Jocco would have a fit. On physical things, discipline is important. If I want to build a good body, I got to work out on a regular basis. But on mental things, I think understanding is way more important. Once you see the truth of something, you cannot unsee it. All of us have had experiences where we've seen a behavior in a person and then it just changes what we think about that person. We no longer want to be friends with them or we deeply respect them if it was really good behavior that maybe was observed unintentionally.

与这个故事相关的是，我认为理解远比纪律重要。Jocco可能会对此感到不满。在体力方面，纪律很重要。如果我想拥有一个好身体，我就必须定期锻炼。但在精神或心理方面，我认为理解更为重要。一旦你看到了事情的真相，你就再也无法忽视它。我们都经历过这样的情况，当我们观察到一个人的某种行为时，它会改变我们对那个人的看法。如果是消极行为，我们可能不再想与他们交朋友；如果是非常好的行为，即使是无意中观察到的，我们也可能会深深地尊重他们。

When we really do see something clearly, it changes our behavior immediately and that is far more efficient than trying to change your behavior through repetition. Could you give me an example? If you were, let's say, that you have a friend and that person turns out to be a thief, you see that person stealing something. You're done with them. If you are the smoking lung cancer example is a good one, right? Someone close to you. Any time someone close to you dies or you even hear about someone dying. You hear about something like, what's the first thing you do? The first thing, assuming that you weren't that close to them, obviously you're close to them. But if you weren't that close to them, but you hear about someone in your extended social sense of dying, you immediately start trying to distinguish yourself from them.

当我们真正清楚地看到某件事情时，它会立即改变我们的行为，这比通过重复来尝试改变行为要有效得多。你能举个例子吗？假设你有一个朋友，结果发现那个人是个小偷，你亲眼看到他偷东西。你会立刻与他断绝关系。再比如“吸烟导致肺癌”的例子非常好，当你的亲近的人去世了，或者你听说有人去世时，你的反应会是什么呢？首先，假设你和他们不是特别亲密，尽管你可能和他们是很亲近的关系，但如果只是稍微熟识的人去世了，你会立刻开始试图与他们保持区别。

Like, oh, well, how old is this person? Did they have a, were they a smoker? Did they have an issue? Do I have that issue? Right? You immediately start comparing. What you're doing there is you're just trying to see if there's an overlap here. But if you see the truth in something, if you're like, oh my God, this person was the same age as me and they died and that started to happen at my age where I'm started to hear about, you know, extend circle people. Just reminds you time is really short. There's a truth there. There's a truth there that you cannot actually understand yourself. The truth there that you cannot unsee.

就像，“哦，那么这个人多大年纪？他们有没有抽烟？他们有没有什么问题？我有这种问题吗？”对吧？你立刻开始比较。你这样做只是想看看有没有相似之处。但如果你看到了某种真实，比如你发现“天啊，这个人和我同龄，他们去世了，而且这种事情是在我这个年纪开始发生的，我开始听说身边人也有类似的情况。”这让你意识到时间真的很短暂。有一个事实在这里，一个你无法真正理解的事实，一个你无法忽视的事实。

Or, for example, I think, were you into bodybuilding or something back when? I don't know. Just like, like, bro lifting stuff. Bro lifting stuff. Yeah. Right, but there probably was a point where you were being really aggrowing the jam and you injured yourself many times. Right. And each one of those was a deep understanding of don't go beyond this point. Right? There was a truth there. So, again, when you see these things in such a way that you can't unsee them, that changes your behavior instantly. And I would argue that that introspection to find those truths is actually very useful.

或者，比如说，我记得你以前是不是对健美或者类似的东西很感兴趣？我不太确定。就像那种，呃，兄弟们一起练举重的那种情况。对吧，但可能在某个时候，你在健身时真的很努力，以至于多次受伤。对吧，而每次受伤都是对“不要超过这个极限”的深入理解。那些都是事实。所以，当你以一种无法忽视的方式看到这些事物时，它会立即改变你的行为。我认为，这种内省以寻找这些真相的方式实际上非常有用。

Is that a justification for more experimentation, exploration, experience in life, sort of trying to find serendipity because all of these experiences are going to teach you an inescapable lesson? You're going to do what you're going to do. I mean, your level of exploration, I think, is sort of up to you. But life is always throwing truth back at you. It's about whether you choose to see it, whether you choose to acknowledge it, even if it's painful. Truth is often painful. If it wasn't, we'd all be seeing truth all the time. Reality is always reflecting truth. That's all it is. Why would you not have accessed it already? Exactly. You know, all the philosophy that's out there, for example, it's almost trite. Like, most people, they look at philosophy like, until they discovered for themselves. Because wisdom is the set of things that cannot be transmitted. If they could be transmitted, you know, we'd read the same five philosophy books and would all be done with all be wise.

这是否是为人生中更多的尝试、探索和经验寻找理由？试图发现意外之喜，因为所有这些经历会教会你一个不可避免的教训。你会做你想做的事情。我认为你的探索程度是由你自己决定的。但生活总是会向你揭示真相，只是看你是否选择去看到它，是否愿意去承认它，即使有时它是痛苦的。真相往往是痛苦的。如果不是这样，我们都能一直看到真相。现实总是在反映真相，仅此而已。那么，为什么你还没有接触到它呢？正因为如此，所有那些关于哲学的内容，似乎都有些老套。许多人看待哲学，直到他们自己去发现。因为智慧是一套无法传递的东西。如果能够传递，我们只需要读五本哲学书，然后所有人都会变得智慧。

You have to learn it for yourself. It has to be rediscovered for yourself in your own context. You have to have specific experiences that then allow you to generalize and see the truth in those things in such a way that you're not going to unsee them. But each person is going to see them in a different way. I can tell you that's a soccer story and it's not going to resonate until there's something that other people desire that you realize you yourself don't want. The moment that happens, then you'll see the truth in the general statement. I want to just read you a two-minute essay that I wrote a couple of weeks ago. It's called Untitiable Lessons. I've been thinking about a special category of lesson, one which you cannot discover without experiencing it firsthand. There is a certain subset of advice that for some reason we all refuse to learn through instruction. These are untitiable lessons. No matter how arduous or costly or effortful it is going to be for us to find out ourselves, we prefer to disregard the mountains of warnings from our elders, songs,

你必须自己去学习这件事。你必须在自己的语境中重新发现它。你需要有特定的经历，才能从中归纳出某种真理，并且一旦看到了，就不会再忽视它了。但每个人看到的方式会有所不同。我可以跟你讲一个足球的故事，但只有当你发现自己不想要某些别人大为渴求的东西时，这个故事才会产生共鸣。当那一刻到来时，你就能理解这一普遍性说法中的真理。我想给你读一篇我几周前写的，两分钟就能读完的小文章。标题是《无法教授的教训》。我一直在思考一种特别的教训，你必须亲身体验才能领悟。有一种忠告的类型，不管出于什么原因，我们都拒绝通过指导来学习。这些就是无法教授的教训。无论要付出多大的努力、代价或艰辛来亲自发现这些真理，我们都宁愿忽视来自长辈的警告，以及歌曲中的忠告。

literature, historical catastrophes, public scandals, and instead think some version of, yeah, that might be true for them. But not for me. We decide to learn the hard lessons, the hard way over and over again. Unfortunately they all seem to be the big things too. To never new insights about how to put up level shelves or charmingly introduce yourself at a cocktail party, instead we spend most of our lives learning first hand the most important lessons that the previous generations already warned us about. Things like, money won't make you happy, fame won't fix yourself worth, you don't love that pretty girl, she's just hot and difficult to get. Nothing as as important as you think it is when you're thinking about it, you will regret working too much, worrying is not improving your performance, all your fears are a waste of time, you should see your parents more.

文学、历史灾难、公众丑闻等等，我们总会想：“是的，那可能对他们来说是真的，但不适用于我。” 我们总是选择一次又一次地以艰难的方式学习教训。不幸的是，这些教训似乎都是重大事情。我们没有获得如何安装平稳的书架或如何在鸡尾酒会上优雅地自我介绍的新见解，而是大部分时间都在亲身学习那些前几代人已经警告过我们的最重要的教训。比如，金钱不会带来幸福，名声无法提升自我价值，你并不爱那个漂亮的女孩，她只是长得好看而且难以得到。当你想到一件事情时，它并没有你想象的那么重要。过多工作你会后悔，过度担心不会提升你的表现，所有的恐惧都是浪费时间，你应该多去看看你的父母。

You'll be fine after the breakup and be grateful that you did it. It's perfectly okay to cut toxic people out of your life, and even reading this list back and rolling my eyes at how fucking trite it is. These are all basic bitch obvious insights that everybody has heard before. But if they're so basic, why does everyone so reliably fall prey to them throughout our lives? And if they're so obvious, why do people who have recently become famous or wealthy or lost a parent or gone through a breakup start to proclaim these facts with the renewed grandiose ceremony of someone who's just gone through religious revelation? It's also a very contentious list of points to say on the internet. If you interview a billionaire who says that all of his money didn't make him happy or a movie star who said that her fame felt like a prison, the internet will tear them apart for being ungrateful and out of touch.

分手后你会没事的，并会感谢自己做出了这个决定。把有毒的人踢出生活是完全可以的。虽然我也觉得这些建议听起来非常老生常谈，但如果它们如此简单，为什么大家还是常常在生活中被这些问题困扰呢？而那些刚刚成名、变得富有、失去亲人或刚经历分手的人，为什么会像经历了宗教启示一样盛大地宣扬这些道理呢？在网上提出这些观点往往会引起争议。如果你采访一个亿万富翁，他说金钱并未带来快乐，或者采访一个电影明星，她说成名就像坐牢，网友们会说他们不懂感恩，脱离实际。

So not only do we refuse to learn these lessons, we even refuse to hear the message from those warning us about them. And even more than that, I think for every one of these, if I consider a bit deeper, I can recall a time, including right now, where I convinced myself that I am the exception to the rule that my particular mental makeup or life situation or historical wounds or dreams for the future render me immune to these lessons being applicable. No, no, no, my in a landscape would be solved by skirting around the most well-known wisdom of the ages. No, no, no, I can thread this needle properly, watch me dance through the minefield and avoid all of the trip-wise that everyone else kicks. And then you kick one. When you share a knowing look, the kind that can only occur between two people who have been hurt in the exact same way, and a voice in the back of your mind will say, I told you so. That's un-teachable.

所以，我们不仅拒绝学习这些教训，甚至连那些警告我们的人传递的信息都不愿意听。而且更进一步地讲，我认为，对于每一个这样的教训，如果我仔细思考一下，我都能记起一个时刻，包括现在，在那时我说服自己，我是规则的例外，因为我的心理状态、生活情况、过去的伤痛或未来的梦想使我不受这些教训的影响。不，不，不，我的问题可以通过绕开古老智慧来解决。不，不，不，我可以巧妙地解决这个问题，看看我是如何在地雷区跳舞，避开所有别人的绊脚石的。然后，你却踩到了一个。当你和另一个经历过相同伤痛的人分享一个心照不宣的眼神时，脑海中会有一个声音说，我早就告诉过你。这是无法教会的。

It's a good essay. I think one of the reasons why these lessons are un-teachable is because they're too broad. They have to be applied in context. A number of the ones that you laid out contradict each other, like spend more time with your parents and you know, don't work so hard, but you know, at the same time, you do want to be successful, right? I think a lot of these lessons come from down on high, from, as you said, like the famous movie star or the billionaire saying, oh, you don't need my to be happy. It's like, well, okay, then give it up, pitch. Right.

这是一篇不错的文章。我认为这些课程难以教授的原因之一是它们过于宽泛。它们必须在特定的背景中应用。你提到的一些建议彼此矛盾，比如多花点时间和父母在一起，同时又说不要太拼命工作，但同时你又想要获得成功，对吧？我觉得很多这样的建议都来自那些高高在上的人，比如你提到的著名影星或亿万富翁，他们会说，哦，你不需要像我这样才能快乐。但是，如果是这样的话，他们怎么不放弃呢，对吧？

So in reality, I think many of these contradict each other. And it's like, if you went to school and you just studied philosophy for years, you would not know how to live life because you wouldn't know which philosophical doctrine to apply and which circumstance. You have to actually live life, go through all of the issues to figure out what is that you want, what's the context in which some of these things apply and some of them don't. Yes, you want to visit your parents more often, but you don't want to live with your parents and you don't want to necessarily see them every day or every weekend depending on the parent. You might not get along with one of them.

所以实际上，我认为这些观点中有很多是相互矛盾的。这就好比说，如果你去学校学习哲学多年，你可能不知道如何生活，因为你不知道在不同的情况下应该应用哪种哲学理论。你需要真正去生活，通过经历各种问题来弄清楚自己想要什么，以及在什么情况下这些理论适用或不适用。是的，你可能想要更常回去看望父母，但这并不意味着你想和他们住在一起，或者一定每天或者每个周末都去看他们，因为这还要取决于父母的情况，比如你可能跟其中一个不太合得来。

So I think it is highly contextual. That said, I would argue that once you figure it out for yourself, you can kind of carve these variations on these maxims that apply to you. And then you'll have a specific experience that helps you remember it and actually execute on it. And you can also phrase it in a way where it's not trite anymore. So like my. It's possible. Yeah, so a lot of my maxims and those to self are carved in a way that they're modernized. They're saying something true, which might be trite if I didn't say it in a new way or in an interesting way that is more relevant to me today.

我认为这是非常有情境性的。也就是说，我认为一旦你为自己找到了答案，你就可以在这些对你有用的格言基础上进行调整。然后，你将拥有一种独特的体验，这有助于你记住它，并真正加以实施。你还可以用一种不再陈腐的方式来表述它。比如说我自己。是的，我的许多格言和自我提醒都是经过改造的，它们传达了一些真实的内容，如果不用新的或更有趣的方式表述，可能会显得老套，而现在这些对我来说更有意义。

There was a Nobel Prize winner who said something to the effect of everything worth saying may have been said before, but given that nobody was listening, it must be said again. Yeah, it has to be said again, it has to be recontextualized for the modern age. Things do change. Technology changes, things, culture changes, people change. On that, I've heard you say you talk about the difference between seeming wise and being wise that you tried to appear smart as a kid by sort of still do. Rote memorization, masquerading is inside and wisdom.

有一位诺贝尔奖得主曾说过类似的话：所有值得说的话可能以前都已经有人说过，但由于没人听，所以必须再说一遍。是的，必须再说一遍，并且要根据现代的背景重新解读。因为时代是在变化的。科技在变化，文化在变化，人也在变化。在这方面，我听你谈到过装作聪明和真正聪明的区别，你说你小时候试图通过死记硬背来显得聪明，现在可能还是这样。死记硬背只是伪装成了见识和智慧。

I certainly feel that a lot of the show for me, I think, has been, was and still is a redemption arc from this decade of my life where I completely suppressed any intellectual curiosity. It's like, okay, I'll be a professional party boy for 10 years, stand on the front door of a nightclub and give up VIP respans and have access to all of the pretty girls or the cool parties or whatever it might be. Seems like it worked out okay. It did in some ways, but it's not fun.

我确实感觉，对我来说，很多情况下，这个节目是，也一直是，对我这十年来生活的救赎。在这十年中，我完全压抑了自己的求知欲。就好像：好吧，我要做十年的专业派对男孩，站在夜总会的门口，发放VIP腕带，结识所有漂亮女孩或出现在酷炫的派对。不管是什么，总之看起来还不错。从某些方面来说，确实不错，但其实并不好玩。

It was a good way to spend my 20s. To sort of come back above, put your head above water, two degrees, one of which was a master's and then this like just shut down any of that. I mean, I did that while I was at uni, while I was at uni, I was running the events. So it's actually a decade and a half. I think there was a big redemption arc within this show and I constantly have to kind of wipe the slime off me of this sense that I need to prove myself and so much of it.

这是一个很好的方式来度过我的二十多岁。就像为了重新出发，把头浮出水面，我获得了两个学位，其中一个是硕士学位。而后这一切就像被按下了停止键。我是这么做的，当我在大学的时候，我负责策划活动。所以实际上，这已经有十五年了。我觉得在这个过程中有一个很大的救赎，我总是要努力摆脱那种需要证明自己的感觉。

That's why it really resonates with me when you're memorizing things that indicates that you don't understand them or that sort of, you know, wrote memorization and regurgitation masquerading as wisdom because people use fluency as a proxy for truthfulness and insight. They use the complexity of your language and your communication. There's a lot of jargon out there. I think it's the mark of a Charlotte and to explain a simple thing in a complex way.

这就是为什么我非常认同这样的观点：当你记忆某些东西时，可能意味着你并不真正理解它们。这种死记硬背，然后生搬硬套，看似智慧，其实不过是一种伪装。因为人们常常把流利的表达误认为是真实和有见地。他们以语言和交流的复杂性来判断水平，目前有很多术语和行话。我认为，一个人用复杂的方式去解释简单的事情，是骗人的表现。

And so when you see people using very complicated language to explain simple things, they're either trying to impress you and office gate or they don't understand it themselves. But there's an allure in that though. You know, this was one of the things I had to do when I went to therapy. It's kind of interesting. I don't think I've talked about this before. I needed to turn off podcast Chris when I stepped into therapy because most of the time that I spend one on one in a deep conversation that's undistracted throughout the week, I trained myself over, you know, when I started doing it 700 episodes now, 900 and whatever.

当你看到有人用非常复杂的语言来解释简单的事情时，他们要么是在试图给你留下深刻印象并设置门槛，要么就是他们自己也不太明白。不过，这其中确实有些吸引人的地方。这是我去做心理治疗时需要面对的一个问题。这很有趣，我想我以前没谈过这个。在进入治疗的时候，我需要关闭“播客克里斯”模式，因为在一周中，我的大部分一对一深入对话时间都是在没有干扰的情况下进行的。我从700集开始，一直到现在的900多集，慢慢地训练了自己。

And I knew what I could do to say to this therapist some, you know, to just sort of veer off a little and create some nice story, put a bow on it, push it across the table and watch your eyes light up a little bit, like a little grin or a self-deprecating joke or whatever. Like you're not here. You're performing. You're doing this. You're doing the Chris Williams and thing with the sort of jazz hands. So I have my own version. Okay. So you have podcast Chris. Uh-huh. I have podcast guest in the ball. Precisely.

我知道我可以对这个治疗师说些什么，稍微偏离一下正题，编个好听的故事，把它包装好递给她，看着她眼睛闪闪发光，露出一丝微笑，或者讲个自嘲的笑话之类的。就像你不是真的在这里，而是在表演一样。你在做着“克里斯·威廉姆斯式”的表演，有点像在挥舞双手。所以我也有自己的版本。嗯，你有“播客克里斯”。嗯，我有“播客嘉宾”这一套。没错。

So very often I'll think of something. I'll have some what I think is an insight and I want to tweet it or write it down. But in my mind, I'm talking about on a podcast. That's kind of how my mind registers it. And for a while, I thought this was a bad thing and I tried to eradicate podcast in the ball. And then I just realized this is just how it comes out. So it might as well just be okay with it.

我经常会想到一些事情。我会觉得自己有了某种见解，想要发推特或写下来。但在我心里，这些内容好像是在播客中谈论的。这就是我脑海中记录的方式。有段时间，我觉得这样不好，尝试去除这些“播客化”的思维方式。后来我意识到这就是我的思维习惯，所以不如接受它。

Now, do you know the reason I'm on this podcast? No. I've got proper formal interviews, straight up, top, whatever, 10, 20 podcasts in a long time. So in Jorogan, maybe probably since Logan. Yep. Yeah. I went out at the top, right? That was a theory. Well, it's still at the top. Yeah. I know. And then, you know, I've done some stuff with Tim, Tim Ferris, good friend. But there's been more co-hosting. I haven't been a guest. And then I did one or two random things where I just stumbled into a thing where I, you know, there was a reason, but it wasn't like this. And I reached out to you for this one.

现在，你知道我上这个播客的原因吗？不知道。之前我一直在参与非常正式的采访，那种排名前10、前20的顶级播客，比如Jorogan，还有可能是Logan以来的一些。是的，我当时就在顶尖的位置，对吧？这是个理论，但其实我仍然在顶尖。我知道的。我还和Tim Ferris合作过，一位很好的朋友，但更多是以联合主持的身份，而不是作为嘉宾。有一两次，我偶然参与了一些随机的活动，虽然有原因，但不大像这次。而这次，我是主动联系你的。

Right? I have lots of people reaching out to me for podcast. I did not answer them. I reached out to you. And the reason is a really funny one. It's because when I am playing podcast in the vault in my head, for some reason, you're on the other side. And I don't know why. I literally don't know why. It's not like I've even seen many of your podcasts. I think I've seen some snippets here and there. But for some reason, you were the guy in the podcast in podcast in the vault.

好的？有很多人联系我希望我参加他们的播客，但我都没有回复他们。我联系了你，而其中的原因其实挺有趣的。因为当我在脑海中想象播客时，不知道为什么，你总是在播客的另一端。我真的不知道原因是什么。并不是因为我看过很多你的播客，其实我只看过一些片段。但不知为何，你就是我脑海中播客的那个人。

And so I was like, oh, I might as well just do it. So I reached out to you. I wonder if this will close that loop or further entrench it. I wonder if you've made it way worse now. And you're just going to have, well, first off, it was a dream. And now it's reality plus a dream. And so I don't get away from him. Yeah, there are enough people that I turn down where I said I'm just not doing podcasts. I feel bad about that. I got to go back and do those podcasts. But I probably wear out my look. I have nothing to talk about.

所以我当时想，哎，索性就做吧，于是我联系了你。我不知道这会不会解决问题，还是让事情更复杂。我想知道你是否让情况变得更糟了。首先，那是个梦想，现在它已经是真实加上梦想了。所以我无法摆脱他的影响。确实有不少人被我拒绝了，因为我说我不做播客，为此我感到抱歉。我得回去参加那些播客节目，但我可能会把自己搞得筋疲力尽，而且我也没有什么好说的了。

So I don't know what I'm going to say. Well, I appreciate you said on Rogan. And this was something, you know, to kind of pay it back to you. I had a five-headed Mount Rushmore of guests before I started this show. And it was John Peterson, Sam Harris, a lander bot on from the School of Life. And I was a new and Rogan. And that was my hydra of a Mount Rushmore. And I knew, I think someone that asked you at some point, maybe it was a tweet or something after Rogan, or maybe even said it on Rogan where you said, I don't like to say the same thing twice, at least not in the same way.

所以我不知道我要说什么。嗯，我很感激你在罗根的节目中说的话。这也是我想回馈给你的。我在开始这个节目之前心目中有一个五位顶尖嘉宾的"总统山"，他们是约翰·彼得森、萨姆·哈里斯、School of Life的兰德·博特，还有一个是罗根。那是我心中的一座"多头总统山"。我记得好像有人问过你，也许是推特上，也许是在罗根节目上你提到过，你不喜欢重复说同样的事情，至少不会以同样的方式重复。

I don't like sequels. Yeah. And I really, really respected that. You know, that was 2019. You said it was eight or nine years ago. It wasn't as long ago as you know. I have a terrible memory. Yeah, yeah. You're right. 2019, right? Yes. And I really appreciated that because there is something, the content game you can continue to sort of, I'm sure I've said many things today that the audience will have already heard. But caring enough about having novel insights or at least having a new perspective on similar insights.

我不喜欢续集。是的，我真的非常尊重这一点。你知道，那是2019年。你说这是八、九年前。虽然没那么久，但我记性很差。是的，是2019年，对吧？没错。我真的很欣赏这一点，因为在内容创作中，总是可以继续延伸。今天我可能说了很多观众已经听过的事情，但至少要关心提供新的见解，或者至少在相似的见解上提供一个新的视角。

So, well, you know, in the space of six years since you were on Joe, a lot of these say, well, I'm coming out of the, actually, the first thing I said to you today, like, I'm not convinced that I actually fully agree with that thing that I used to say, which is cool, right? That's you, yeah. Showing that the position that you put in the ground previously is not a tether. It's not you being held to it anymore.

好的，你知道，自从你上次在乔的节目到现在六年的时间里，很多事情都在变化。比如今天我一开始跟你说的那件事，其实我现在并不完全信服我过去所坚持的观点，这也没关系，对吧？这就是你，说明你之前的立场不再是一个束缚，它不再限制你了。

Well, I think the reason why I wanted to be on this is because for some reason, I have the impression that you engage in conversations. You know, like conversations, I don't like interviews. This is why I was doing my last startup air chat, which was all about conversations. And conversations to me are more genuine. They're more authentic. There's a give and take. There's a back and forth. There's a genuine curiosity. It's not to say the other podcasters don't do it. They absolutely do do it.

嗯，我想我之所以想参与这个项目，是因为我觉得你会真正地进行对话。你知道，就是那种对话，我不喜欢采访。这也是为什么我上一个创业项目是做Air Chat的原因，它完全是围绕对话展开的。对我来说，对话更真诚、更真实，有一种互相交流的感觉，是一种真正的好奇心。当然，这并不是说其他播客制作人不这样做，但我认为这种方式更自然。

But for some reason, in my mind, I had you as a guy that I would actually have a conversation with. And sure enough, you just read me your essay, which I don't think anybody else would really do, right? That implies is a give and take. There's a genuine curiosity. And I think that's useful because then certain inexplicit knowledge that I had will be surfaced for myself. I think that's helpful.

不知为何，在我的印象中，我一直觉得你是一个我可以真正交谈的人。果然，你确实向我读了你的文章，我想不会有其他人会这样做，对吧？这意味着我们有一种互动，有一种真正的好奇心。我觉得这很有用，因为这样一来，我原本隐含的一些知识就会浮现出来。我认为这很有帮助。

Well, you're seeing, you know, to kind of break the fourth wall a bit, you're seeing very much of some of the gateway drug insights that you had that you just don't get to choose. I'm aware that you kind of have an anti-guru sentiment in you, like a very strong, like, don't listen to me. I don't know what I'm doing. I do not know. People follow me, do not bow to me, do not do any of the other things to me. But if you see resonance in another person, and I think this is what we're all trying to find, you know, people can complain about the mountains of content creation that happens and maybe rightly so. But if you're able to find someone and you see in them a little bit of you, maybe not even much of you, but like, oh, that bit of them, they're self-esteem or the way they look at relationships or what they want to do, they kind of life, they want the level of peace of mind that they want to have or whatever it might be.

好吧，你知道的，我要稍微打破一下第四面墙来解释一下你看到的一些东西，你会发现很多所谓的“入门药物”的见解，就是那些你不能选择的东西。我知道你心里有点反对“大师”之类的想法人，特别强烈地觉得，别听我的，我根本不知道自己在做什么，我也不清楚。人们跟随我，不要对我顶礼膜拜，也不要对我做其他事情。但是，如果你在另一个人身上找到了共鸣，我认为这也是我们都在努力寻找的东西。有人可能会对大量的内容创作表示不满，也许这种不满是有道理的。但是，如果你能找到一个人，在他身上看到一点自己的影子，哪怕只是很小的一部分，比如他们的自尊，他们看待人际关系的方式，或者他们想追求的生活，他们想要的那种内心的宁静等等，无论是哪种。

If you find in somebody else a little bit of that, it's kind of like what you're saying before you can't, you can no longer be unconvinced of that. And it steps in and becomes a part of you. And yeah, you're maybe seeing reflected back to you some, you know, this sort of percolated, very meandering insight from however long ago that something's happened. Maybe in five years' time you'll be like, you know that thing that you said about the lessons and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then I don't know, that's like synthesis, right? It's the sort of blending of. The reason I spend a lot of time in San Francisco is because it's a gravitational attractor for the smartest people in the world. And despite all of the many problems the city had, because it's mismanaged beyond belief, it does just seem to pull in the young, smart, creative people.

如果你在别人身上发现了一些这样的东西，就像你之前说的那样，你再也不能不相信它了。它慢慢融入你的生活，成为你的一部分。也许你会看到某种反馈，这种反馈可能来自多年前某段时间你的思考。在未来的五年里，你可能会回想起你说过的那些关于经验教训的话，那就是一种融合，对吧？这是一种整合。我之所以花很多时间在旧金山，是因为这里吸引了全世界最聪明的人。尽管这座城市有许多管理不善的问题，但它似乎仍然能吸引年轻、有智慧和创造力的人。

Not just the ones who are building technology, but they're exploring every facet of life and they're weird and sometimes it's repulsive and it's bizarre, but you talk to these people and you just see a very intelligent person coming at life in a completely different way, putting it through the combinatorics of human DNA which are uncountable and giving you a weird perspective that can twist your mind around. And to do that, you always have to be learning. You can't be at a guru mentality. If I'm with somebody and they're listening to every word I say and hang on it, that's not interesting for me. I'm not going to learn anything. I want people who are intelligent, who will say something back that is a little different, and I may not agree with it, but it's going to leave a mark.

不仅仅是那些在构建技术的人，他们在探索生活的方方面面，而且他们有时很怪异，甚至令人反感，古怪到让人费解。但当你和这些人交谈时，你会发现他们是以一种完全不同的方式看待生活的，非常聪明，通过无数人类DNA的组合，给你一种奇特的视角，可能会颠覆你的思维。而要实现这种收获，你必须不断学习，不能自以为是一个大师。如果我和某人在一起，他们对我说的每一个字都言听计从，那对我来说没有趣味，我也学不到任何东西。我希望和聪明的人交流，他们可以反馈出一些不同的观点，这些观点也许我并不认同，但肯定会给我留下印象。

It's going to leave an impression. And it's going to leave an impression to the extent that both that they are correct and that I choose to listen. And I'll choose to listen if I don't view myself as higher status or smarter than them. The flip side of that is I'm not really impressed by high status people. Like I don't just because I've always been in case. Pretty much. In fact, most of my friends have gone on to become very famous and successful. The more famous successful they've been, the less I spend time with them. Partially because they get surrounded by an army of sick offense, it gets hard to break through. Because I don't want anything from them. And I don't like that. I don't like these situations in which transactional relationships are implied. Probably a gift though to people who are of that because the higher that they climb up that hierarchy, the fewer and fewer people don't want anything from them.

这会留下深刻印象。这样的印象取决于他们的观点是否正确以及我是否选择倾听。如果我不认为自己比他们地位更高或更聪明，我会选择倾听。另一方面，我对社会地位高的人并不感到惊讶。我习惯于这种情况。实际上，我的大多数朋友都变得非常有名和成功。他们越有名和成功，我和他们相处的时间就越少。部分原因是，他们被一大群奉承者包围，难以接触。而且因为我不想从他们那里得到任何东西，我不喜欢涉及交易关系的场合。对那些身处高位的人来说，这可能是一种恩赐，因为越往上爬，越少人不想从他们那里得到什么。

So in that way, you can have even better friends. Right, but they get surrounded by people who do want things from them and are so good at pretending they don't, that it's just not worth my time to try and break out from that group. So it does get lonely at the top, so to speak. But it's also by choice because you can be your own best friend too. I am my own best friend, actually. So I really do enjoy spending time with myself. Yeah. The smartest people are interested in appearing smart and don't care what you think is. Yeah, I mean, a lot of life is not giving a shit, you know, but a lot of the best things on life come out of that. Does this mean sort of talking about that, road memorization, masquerading as wisdom and insight thing, which I think perhaps almost certainly podcasts like this will have contributed to, you know, you hear an Alander boton who's, you know, like a painter with words, very simple, very sort of unpretentious.

这样一来，你就能交到更好的朋友。不过，他们周围往往被那些想从他们身上得到好处的人包围，而那些人又善于假装没有这种意图，所以我觉得不值得花时间去打破这种局面。所以，在某种意义上，身处高处会感到孤独。但这也是一种选择，因为你也可以成为自己的好朋友。其实，我就是我最好的朋友，所以我很享受一个人的时光。是的，最聪明的人常常希望看起来很聪明，而不在乎你对他们的看法。我是说，生活中很多时候就是要不在乎，但很多美好的事情反而因此而来。这样说的话，是不是在谈论那些假装有智慧和洞察力的死记硬背？我觉得播客可能也多少助长了这种现象，就像听到阿兰·德波顿这样的人，他就像是用语言作画，非常简单，非常不装腔作势。

But if you're intellectually curious, you see, you only see the production of his thoughts. You don't necessarily see the work that's gone into the thoughts behind. So you confuse the presentation of them for the insight. Does that make sense? Of course. Yeah. A lot of my stuff is more polished, like one of the funny things. Yeah. One of the funny things that right before this podcast was I thought, maybe I should go back and read my old tweets to sort of remember what I said and I can articulate it well. Then I realized that's this performance. I would just be memorizing my whole stuff to perform. Oh, that's an extra special level of how that you've decided to do.

但如果你有求知欲，你只会看到他思想的展现，却不一定看到支持这些思想的背后努力。因此，你会把这些展现错当成洞见。明白吗？当然。是的。很多我的内容更为精炼，就像有件有趣的事情。对，在这个播客之前，我想，也许我应该回去读读我以前的推文，以回忆我表达过的内容，这样我就能更好地阐述了。然后我意识到，这就是一种表演。我只是记住我所有的东西来进行表演。这是你决定去做的一种特殊程度的表演。

Exactly. And I'm real memorizing me to be more me. Bingo. And to live up to some expectations or some famous personality that I now have to become. Some straight jacket that I have to put on. Yeah. I live up to and private the things that I personally thought. That's right. So of course, pretty quickly I saw through that. It's nonsense. And it also constrains my time and it's just work. I think that's, you know, your meditation practice at work that mindfulness gap to be like, huh. There's that thing again. Exactly.

当然。我真的在努力记住要做更真实的自己。没错。去迎合一些期望或者我现在必须变成的某个知名人士，似乎就像是穿上了某种紧身衣。我一直在迎合，忽略了我个人认为重要的事情。没错。所以，很快我就看穿了这一点。这毫无意义，而且还占据我的时间，只是工作而已。我认为，这是你的冥想练习在起作用，它让你有这样的觉知：啊，又是这种情况。就是这样的。

Exactly. So it's not about changing your thoughts. It's not about fixing your thoughts. It's not about changing yourself. It's just about being observant of yourself so that you can then it'll automatically change. Whatever change needs to happen will happen. You try to change yourself is very circular. The mind trying to change the mind. The mind doesn't like wrestling with itself. I don't think it gets you anywhere. You've spent a lot of time either creating wealth, thinking about how to create wealth. What have you learned are the best places to spend wealth? To spend wealth.

确切地说，这并不是要改变你的想法，也不是要修正你的思维，也不是要改变你自己，而是要观察自己。通过观察，改变自然会发生。任何需要改变的事情都会发生。尝试改变自己可能会导致反复无常，这是因为用大脑去改变大脑是行不通的。大脑不喜欢与自己纠缠不清。我认为这没有任何意义。你花了很多时间在创造财富上，或者在思考如何创造财富。那么，你认为财富最好的花费去处是什么呢？

Yeah. Yeah. How you spend this time creating this wealth, accumulating. One of the best ways for you to put it back out. I actually think Elon had this one figured out, which is he plowed his own money back into his own businesses to go and do bigger and better things for humanity. So what I would like to, you know, you could give it to nonprofits, but love and nonprofits are grifty or it's people who didn't earn it, try to spend it or they don't have tight feedback loops on having a good effect.

好的。你如何利用这个时间来创造财富、累积财富，然后把它再投入使用？我觉得埃隆·马斯克已经看透了这一点，他把自己的钱再投入到自己的企业中，以便为人类创造更大、更好的事物。当然，你可以把钱捐给非盈利机构，但有些非盈利机构存在舞弊问题，或者是一些没有赚到这些钱的人在花这些钱，他们在产生良好效果方面缺乏有效的反馈机制。

So one of the things I want to do as an aside is I want to create a little school for young physicists, but that's my non-profit. So young physicists? Yeah. That's my nonprofity thing. And I've been, and I've actually underwritten media and some physics stuff. I don't like to talk about it. I don't talk about my, whatever so-called philanthropy because I think that makes it less real, that makes it more status oriented. It makes it less philanthropic.

所以我想做的一件事是，作为一个附带项目，我想为年轻的物理学家创建一所小型学校，但这是我的非盈利事业。年轻的物理学家？对的。这是我非盈利的一部分。而且我实际上资助了一些媒体和物理学相关的东西。我不喜欢谈论这些所谓的慈善事业，因为我觉得那样会让事情变得不那么真实，变成一种追求地位的行为，而不是纯粹的慈善行动。

Yeah. Exactly. And then people look at how charitable much already is. And then people also come hunting for money. So there's all of that disease. I don't believe in giving to schools they have enough money. I believe they have enough money and they don't know how to spend it. So I think the best use of money is I think a good business creates a product for people that they voluntarily buy and they get value out of. So in that sense, I think Steve Jobs and Elon and entrepreneurs like that have created a lot of value for the world.

是的，确实如此。而且当别人看到一个人已经很慷慨时，就会有人过来找他要钱。这种现象就像是一种“病”。我不相信给学校捐钱，因为我认为它们已经有足够资金，只是不知道如何使用。我觉得最好的用钱方式是通过创造有价值的产品，让人们愿意购买并从中获益。从这个角度看，我认为像史蒂夫·乔布斯和埃隆·马斯克这样的企业家为世界创造了很多价值。

So one of the things I can do is I can take my own money and I can invest it in myself to go and build the next great thing that I think needs to exist. And that's basically what I'm doing right now. I'm doing a new business. I'm self-funding it. I'm applying a lot of money into it. I'm going to build something that I think is beautiful that I want to see exist. I really want to see it exist.

我可以用自己的钱来投资自己，去创建我认为应该存在的下一个伟大的事物。这就是我现在正在做的事情。我正在开展一个新业务，并通过自筹资金来支持。我投入了很多钱来实现这个项目，因为我想要创造出我认为美好的东西，而且我真的希望它能成为现实。

Have you spoken about this yet? Or is it so? Talk about it. It's so early. Maybe I'll show you two in a few months. Hopefully six months. And I'm excited about it. And that's a good use of money. What about the worst places to spend wealth? What is the old line if it flies, floats, or fornicates? Well, very nice way to change the final laugh. Very impressive. That's the way I heard it. I can't take credit for it. I'm pretty sure it's fun. But yeah.

你谈论过这个了吗？还是说这是这样吗？谈谈这个吧。现在还很早。可能几个月后我会给你们两个看，希望是六个月后。我对此感到很兴奋，这是一个好用钱的方法。那么，花钱最糟糕的地方是什么呢？是不是有句老话说，如果是飞的、会漂浮的或是用来寻欢作乐的东西呢？嗯，用这种方式来改变最后的笑点很不错，非常令人印象深刻。这是我听说的版本，我不能把功劳归于自己。我相信这很有趣。但就是这样。

Yeah, yeah. I think that was maybe it was Felix Dennis. Okay. Who had that quote? Yeah, he said, if it flies, floats, or fornicates rented. I think the last one was a little too. It's wrong that he didn't have a family, didn't have kids. So he missed the big one. But yeah, there are lots of bad ways to spend money. I believe in investment. I don't believe in consumption.

好的，好的。我想那句名言可能是菲利克斯·丹尼斯说的。对，他说过，如果是飞的、漂的或者是某种行为的东西，就租下来。不过我认为最后一种说法有点过分。他虽然没有家庭，也没有孩子，但还是少了最重要的一环。不过，对，确实有很多不好的花钱方式。我相信投资，而不是消费。

Yes, you're born with a short housing position. You close that out. You got yourself a nice house. Get yourself some help to free up your time. So you're not doing things that other people can do better. Treat people well, always overpay and expect the best. Pay them like they're the best and they expect the best. But overall, I think a good use of money is to take risks and build things and do things that other people can't do. Align it with your own unique talents so you can keep delivering to the world. I'm not going to sit idle. I'm not going to retire. That's a waste of whatever time I have left on this earth. And if I'm doing something I enjoy, then I'm already in perpetual retirement. Because work is just a set of things you want to do that you have to do that you don't want to do. So if you want to do it, it's not work.

是的，一开始你就以一种短线持仓的方式拥有住房。你换掉了这个位置，给自己买了一所好房子。找些人帮你，以便腾出时间，这样你就不会去做那些别人能做得更好的事情。善待他人，总是支付超过市场价格，并期望得到最好的结果。像对待最好的员工那样对待他们，他们也会期望成为最好的。不过，总的来说，我认为明智使用资金的方式是承担风险，创造并做其他人无法做到的事情。把它与你独特的才能结合起来，这样你就能不断为世界贡献。我不会无所事事，我不会退休，那是在浪费我在这世上的剩余时间。如果我做的是我喜欢的事情，那我已经处于持续的“退休”状态了。因为工作只是一系列你想做但不想做却不得不做的事情。因此，如果你愿意去做，它就不算是工作。

And so there are things that I want to do. Don't feel like work. I can put money behind them. And I can use that to make instantiate them into reality. And I don't want to say make the world a better place because that's too tight. But it's more just create a product that I am proud of that wouldn't exist otherwise that other people will get tremendous value. And it's been enabled through wealth because you're able to take a level of risk that you wouldn't have been able to. Exactly. Yeah, wealth gives you freedom. It gives you freedom to explore more options. And in my case, it gives me freedom to start businesses without having to ask other people for permission or to warp my vision based on their desires to make a return or how they think money should be made.

有些事情是我想要去做的，它们让我感到轻松愉快，不像是在工作。我可以投入资金，将这些想法变为现实。我不想说这会让世界变得更美好，因为这有些狭隘，我更希望创造出一个令我自豪的产品，这个产品是其他人可以从中获得极大价值的，而这个产品本来是不存在的。这一切都是因为财富的支持，因为它让我能承受曾经无法承担的风险。没错，财富给了我自由，能够让我探索更多的选择。对我来说，它让我能够开创企业，而不必去征求他人的同意，也不必根据他们的投资回报期望或他们认为赚钱的方法来改变我的初衷。

Is there anything that you'd add to the how to get rich thread? Is there anything where you thought, like just one, if I could go in and edit and add one more in or there's like 10,000 things I could talk about that topic forever, to be honest. That thread was so short and it was so limited and it was so like, you know, crafted in a sense, although I wrote it very spontaneously. It left so much on the cutting room floor that I could just talk about that topic for days. But it's all contextual, right? This is very, very, very contextual. You have to look at the particular business and understand what's being done and why it's being done and how it's being done. And then you can tear it apart and then reassemble it properly.

你有没有什么想要补充到“如何致富”这个帖子里的？有没有哪一个点让你觉得：如果可以进去编辑，我想再加一个，或者有成千上万的东西可以聊这话题聊个不停。说实话，那个帖子太简短了，内容也很有限，就像是经过精心制作的，虽然我写得很随意。其实我还有太多东西没谈到，我可以这个话题聊好几天。不过，这一切都是有背景的，对吧？这非常非常有背景。你需要考察特定的业务，了解正在做什么、为什么做、怎么做。然后，你才能解构它并正确地重新组装。

And I like to think that that is actually where I have specific knowledge and expertise. My specific knowledge expertise is not in happiness and not in philosophy. Yes, my life is very hacked to be very unique. But I don't think that's where my specific knowledge is. My specific knowledge is in being able to analyze a business, especially a technology business and take it apart at the seams and predict in advance what is likely to work and what is not likely to work. Clubhouse notwithstanding. Because you're still going to be wrong most of the time. It's like playing the lottery, but you know one or two of the tickets numbers in advance. You only have to be right a few times or even just once to get the big score.

我认为我的专长和具体知识在于其他领域，而不是幸福或哲学。虽然我的生活方式很独特，但这并不是我具体知识所在。我擅长的是分析业务，特别是科技类业务，能够把它们拆解并预测哪些可能会成功，哪些可能不会成功。即便如此，大多数时候你仍然会犯错。这有点像买彩票，但你提前知道一两个号码。你只需要对一两次，甚至一次，就能取得重大成功。

Peter Tiel started PayPal, but he made all his money on Facebook, right? Now he's done more since then obviously, but that was the big winner. And that's true in any power law distribution. Number one is going to return more than two through end put together, two return more than three through end put together. You're operating in a highly leveraged intellectual domain. So the outcomes are going to be non-linear. So I know a lot about the topic, but it's highly contextual. It makes a lot more sense if there's a specific business in front of me, a specific entrepreneur, and I can take that apart.

彼得·蒂尔创立了PayPal，但他赚大钱其实是在Facebook，对吧？当然，他之后还做了不少事情，但Facebook是他最大的一次成功。这种情况在任何幂律分布中都是真实存在的：第一名的回报会超过第二名到最后一名的总和，第二名的回报会超过第三名到最后一名的总和。你在一个高度杠杆化的智力领域中运作，因此结果会是非线性的。我对这个话题了解很多，但它高度依赖于背景。如果我面前有一个具体的企业或企业家，我能更清晰地分析问题。

And I can say, you know, so there are certain companies where I'll say, oh, this is not going to work because you the entrepreneur are doing this for the wrong reasons. You're doing a so you can get to be just go to be or you're doing this to make money when really the person who's doing this because they love the product is going to beat you. Or you're raising money from the wrong people who are in it for the wrong reasons or your co-founder is not in for the right reasons or you don't have the right kind of co-founder or your investing schedule is wrong or you're starting the business in the wrong place or you're approaching it from this angle instead of that angle.

我可以说，有些公司我会认为它们不会成功，因为创业者在为错误的理由做这件事。比如，有的人是为了达到某个目的而去做，并不是因为热爱产品。而真正因热爱产品去做的人，往往会取得成功。还有人是为了赚钱，这种动机也会影响他们的长久发展。此外，你可能正在从不合适的人那里筹集资金，他们的参与动机也不正确，或者你的合伙人参与的动机不对，甚至合伙人本身就不合适。你的投资计划可能出问题了，或者你在错误的地方创业，或者依赖错误的策略和角度。这些因素都可能影响公司的成败。

And of course, I'll be wrong too, but I've just seen a lot of data. I have my theories around it. And that's where I feel very comfortable operating. The problem is when I have to talk about how to create wealth and how to get rich as a click bay title deliberately, but when I talk about how to create wealth, talking about it in the abstract is very difficult because then you just want to speak truth. You have to just say the timeless stuff. You have to be right in almost every context. And so it really limits what you can say. The lack of specificity makes it. Correct. It's back to philosophy. But if I can get specific about it, that's when the real knowledge is like a welcome puzzle of the piece.

当然，我也会有错，但我看过很多数据。我有我自己的理论，这是让我感到很舒服的地方。问题在于，当我不得不以“如何致富”作为一个故意吸引眼球的标题来谈论这个话题时，从抽象的层面讨论如何创造财富是非常困难的，因为这时候你只想讲真话。你必须说出那些永恒不变的东西，必须在几乎每个情况下都正确。这就限制了你能说的话。缺乏具体性使得它更像是哲学。但如果我能具体谈论它，那时真正的知识就像拼图中的一块欢迎拼图。

Yeah, part of the reason why I started doing podcasts and this is ego at place, I'll admit it freely, when I was tweeting, I kind of pioneered philosophy Twitter if you will, or a certain kind of practical philosophy Twitter. We're in 140 characters, I would try to say something true in an interesting way that was insightful to me at the time. But then that got copied. There's thousands of us now. There's thousands of people spitting it out chat GPT trying to create these things all day long. Although I like to say, I like to think that my stuff is incompressible. I'm saying it in the tightest way possible, which is kind of a little failed poetry background.

是这样的，我开始做播客的部分原因，我得承认是因为自尊心在作祟。当我在推特上发帖时，可以说我算是开创了“哲学推特”或者某种实用哲学推特。在140个字符内，我会试着以一种有趣且对当时的我来说很有启发的方式表达某种真相。不过后来这种做法被复制了。现在有成千上万的人在用类似聊天机器人GPT的东西整天试图创造这样的内容。尽管如此，我还是愿意相信自己的东西是无法压缩的，我已经用尽可能简洁的方式在表达了，这可能与我未遂的诗歌背景有关。

But what I realized was if you truly have a deep understanding of something, then you can talk about it all day long. Then you can re-derive everything you need from that understanding, no memorization required. You can get to it from first principles. Every piece of what you know is like a Lego block that just fits in and forms a steel frame is solid. It's locked in there. On a podcast, I can unload much more deeply about some of these topics. For example, we can talk about any business you like, but it has to be in context. It has to be real. It has to be an actual problem.

我意识到，如果你对某件事情有深入的理解，那么你可以谈论它一整天。你可以从这种理解中推导出一切，不需要死记硬背。你可以从基本原理出发。你所知道的每个部分都像乐高积木一样，可以拼在一起，形成一个牢固的钢架，牢牢锁住。在播客上，我可以更深入地讨论这些话题。例如，我们可以谈论你喜欢的任何生意，但必须有具体的背景和真实的存在感，必须是一个实际的问题。

Then we can solve it. I just really love that heuristic of if you're having to memorize something, it's because you don't understand it. You don't understand it. That's right. If you have to memorize something, it's because you don't understand it. If you understand something, you don't have to memorize it. Yeah. Again, just to sort of call out a lot of what I tried to do, this redemption arc thing, if I sound smart, that's like being smart, right? Well, chat GPT is memorized the entire internet. Good luck competing with that. You're not going to be the memorization. You're not going to be the library of memorization. You're not going to be any 10 books in memorization.

那么我们可以解决这个问题。我非常喜欢这个观点：如果你需要死记硬背某件事，那就说明你还没有理解它。没错，如果你需要死记硬背某件事，那是因为你没有理解它。如果你真正理解了某件事情，你就不需要死记硬背。是的，再次强调一下，我努力去做的很多事情其实就是一种“救赎弧线”，如果我听起来很聪明，那就意味着我有点聪明，对吧？然而，ChatGPT已经记住了整个互联网。祝你好运与之竞争。你无法在记忆方面胜过它。你无法成为记忆的图书馆，无法在记忆方面比得上任何十本书。

Memorization is not the thing. The value of memorization is going down by the day. It's already so low. Understanding is the thing. Being able to judgment is the thing. Tastes is the thing. Understanding, judgment, taste, these come out of having real problems and then solving them and then finding the commonalities. What is philosophy? Everyone. You live long enough. You'll be a philosopher. Because just when you find the hidden generalizable truths among the specific experiences that you've had in life, and then you know how to navigate future specific experiences based on some heuristics and you create a philosophy around that.

记忆并不是最重要的。记忆的价值每天都在降低，已经很低了。理解才是关键，具备判断力才是关键，拥有品味才是关键。理解、判断、品味，这些来自于面对真正的问题并解决它们，并找到其中的共性。那么，什么是哲学呢？每个人，只要活得够久，就会成为哲学家。因为当你从生活中具体的经历中找到了隐藏的、可推广的真理，并且能够根据一些经验法则来应对未来的具体经历时，你就建立了一种哲学。

Any subject pursued deeply enough will eventually lead to philosophy, mastering anything, literally anything will lead you to being a philosopher. You just have to stick with it long enough and generalize the truths back out. These are universal truths. It's back to the unity and variety. You can find unity in anything if you go deep enough. And that's why the trite stuff, unfortunately, keeps coming back around. You're like, well, look, this is cliche for kind of a reason. It's cliche for reasons. But sometimes you learn new things. Sometimes you do figure out new things too.

任何学科深入研究到一定程度，最终都会引向哲学。掌握任何一门学科，无论是什么，最终都会使你成为一名哲学家。你只需要坚持够长时间，并把这些真理进行总结和推广。这些都是普遍的真理。最终，我们又回到了统一性和多样性的问题。无论研究什么，如果挖得足够深，都可以找到其内在的统一性。这也是为什么那些陈词滥调不断重现的原因。不幸的是，它们反复出现，因为它们确实有存在的理由。不过，有时你也会学到新的东西，有时你也会发现新的见解。

Even in philosophy, for example, science is advanced. As science has advanced, it's actually expanded our boundaries of philosophy. When we used to think that the Earth was a center of the universe, you would actually have a different philosophical outlook than when you think the universe is vast and we're infinitesimally small. It will give you a different philosophical outlook. The same way if you think that the nature is driven by angels and demons and gods versus if there are laws of physics that are computable and understandable, that will lead you to a different philosophical outlook.

即使在哲学领域，科学的发展也起到了推动作用。随着科学的进步，它实际上拓宽了我们的哲学边界。当我们认为地球是宇宙中心的时候，我们的哲学观与认为宇宙浩瀚无垠而我们微不足道时是不同的。这会带给我们不同的哲学视角。同样地，如果你认为自然是由天使、恶魔和神灵驱动的，和你认为自然遵循可以计算和理解的物理定律，这两种看法也会导致不同的哲学观念。

If you think that knowledge is something that is passed down from above and through generations, which is something that is created on the fly and then tested against reality, that will lead you to a different philosophical outlook. If you think humans are created by God as opposed to humans evolved from some unicellular organism, still doesn't solve the original problem. Who created that? But at least it takes you further back. Take a ton down the road. Even same theory is an attempt at reforming that in philosophy based on what we know about computers, even though it leads to a lot of the same conclusions as creator.

如果你认为知识是从上而下传承下来的，并且是在实践中创造并检验的，那么这会引导你得出不同的哲学观点。如果你认为人类是由上帝创造的，而不是从单细胞生物进化而来的，这仍然没有解决最初的问题：那是谁创造的？但这至少能让你回溯得更远一点。即使是同样的理论，它也试图在我们对计算机的了解基础上，在哲学中进行一种改革，尽管这往往会得出与创世论相似的结论。

But it is at least philosophy that is informed by technology and by science. So philosophy can also involve moral philosophy involves. There was a time when every culture practically, there was a conquering culture practice slavery. Now almost all cultures are born slavery. That's moral philosophy having evolved. There was even the sounds too ludicrous to be true. I don't know if it fully is true, but there were a fairly large group of doctors based on studies who believed until the 1980s that babies couldn't feel pain.

但这至少是一种受技术和科学启发的哲学。因此，哲学也可以涉及道德哲学。曾经几乎每个文化中都有征服者文化实行奴隶制，而如今几乎所有文化都已摒弃奴隶制。这就是道德哲学的进化过程。还有一件事情听起来太荒谬以致难以置信，我不确定是否完全属实，但有相当多的医生基于一些研究相信到20世纪80年代之前，婴儿是无法感知疼痛的。

And so even to this, I think circumcision is done without anesthesia. Because under the theory that very young children babies don't feel pain. And that's ludicrous. There was a study that came out in the 80s that said, no, no, they do feel pain. It's like, oh yeah, of course. People can be stuck in bad philosophical traps for a long period of time. Even philosophy can make progress. As an example, one of the realizations that I had, and this is thanks to David Deutsch, my friend James Pierce, and also thinking through a little bit, is that there are these timeless old questions that we run into where the answers seem like paradoxes.

即便是这种情况，我认为割礼通常是在没有麻醉的情况下进行的。因为有一种理论认为，年幼的婴儿不会感到疼痛。这简直是荒谬的。早在80年代，就有一项研究表明，婴儿是会感到疼痛的。这让我不禁觉得，当然他们会感到疼痛。人们可能会长时间困于错误的哲学陷阱中，即使哲学也能取得进步。例如，我自己通过一些思考和受到David Deutsch和我的朋友James Pierce的启发后，有一个领悟：我们常常会碰到一些古老而无解的问题，而这些问题的答案似乎总是充满矛盾。

So we stop thinking about them. So an example is free will. Do you have free will? Or does anything matter? Is there a meaning to life? And we get stuck in them because for example, is there a meaning to life? Yes, life has a meaning because you're right here. You create your own meaning. This moment has all the meaning you could imagine. It's all the meaning there is. On the other hand, you're going to die at all ghosts of zero. Heat death, the universe has no meaning. So which one is it?

所以我们停止思考这些问题。一个例子是自由意志：你有自由意志吗？或者说一切都重要吗？生命有意义吗？我们常常被困在这些问题中，比方说，生命有意义吗？是的，生命有意义，因为你就在这里。你创造你自己的意义。此刻拥有你所能想象的所有意义，它就是所有的意义所在。另一方面，你终将离世，一切归零。热寂，宇宙没有意义。那么到底是哪一个呢？

Well, the reason why it seems paradoxical is because you're asking the question of a human here now at a certain scale on a certain time. And then you're answering it from the viewpoint of the universe over infinite time. So you pull the trick. You switch the level at which you answer the question. And question should be answered at the level at which they're asked. So if you ask the question, is there a meaning? You Chris are asking that question. Yes, to Chris, there is meaning. There is meaning right here. This is a meaning. You interpret any meaning you want onto it.

好吧，之所以看起来矛盾，是因为你在一个特定的时间和规模上，以一个人类的视角来提问，但却从宇宙无限时间的角度去回答。因此，你变换了回答问题的层面。问题应该在提出的层面上解答。所以，如果你问“有没有意义？”这个问题，是你，克里斯，提出的。对克里斯而言，这个问题是有意义的。这里就有意义，你可以在其中赋予任何你想要的意义。

Don't ask the question as Chris and then answered as God or as a universe. That's the trick that you're playing. That's why it seems paradoxical. The same way you can say, do I have free will? People debate free will all day long. This question is answered at the wrong frame. So they ask the question, do I as an individual have free will? Hell yeah, I have free will. My mind body system can't predict what I'm going to do next. The universe is infinitely complex. I'm making a choice in my mind. I'm doing something.

不要以“克里斯”的身份提问，然后再以“上帝”或“宇宙”的身份回答。这是你在玩的小把戏。这就是为什么这看起来是自相矛盾的。同样的道理，你可以问：我有自由意志吗？人们整天都在争论自由意志。这个问题是在错误的框架下被回答的。所以他们问，我作为一个个体有自由意志吗？当然有，我有自由意志。我的心灵和身体系统无法预测我接下来会做什么。宇宙是无限复杂的，我在心中做出选择，我在行动。

There's my free will. So answer at the level at which you're asked. Of course I have free will because I feel like I have free will. And I treat you like you have free will. And you treat me like I free will. We have free will. The problem then is you start trying to answer the question as if you're the universe. You're like, well, on the universal scale, big bang, particle collisions, no one makes any choices. You know, how could you be any different than what the universe wants you to be? And it's all one block universe.

我有自由意志，所以我要你按照我问的层次来回答问题。因为我感受到自己的自由意志，所以我当然有自由意志。我对待你的方式也像你有自由意志一样，而你对待我也像我有自由意志。我们都有自由意志。问题在于，有时候你开始像整个宇宙一样来回答问题。你可能会说，从宇宙的角度来看，大爆炸、粒子碰撞，没有人真正做出选择。你会问，怎么可能与你所处的宇宙有所不同？一切都是一个整体的宇宙。

So you don't have free will. You don't answer the question at the level at which it wasn't asked. So if God asked the question, is there free will? No, there is no free will. The universe has the question, there's no free will. But if an individual asks the question right now, then yes, there is free will. So a lot of these paradoxes resolve themselves. Philosophical paradoxes that people have been struggling with since the beginning of time, when you just realize they're you're answering them at a scale in time different than they were asked.

所以，你没有自由意志。你无法在未被提问的层面上回答问题。如果从上帝的角度来看，自由意志不存在。宇宙也认为没有自由意志。但是，如果是一个人在当前这个时刻问是否有自由意志，那么答案是有的。因此，很多这些哲学上的矛盾其实可以化解。自古以来，人们一直在思考这些哲学悖论，当你意识到你是在与问题被询问的不同时间尺度上作答时，就能理解其中的道理。

Speaking of updating beliefs, is there anything that you've changed in your mind around recently? Very recently, I mean, all the time. But are you talking about like philosophical existential things or like technological things? Yeah, philosophical existential things. Or anything that comes to mind. If there's anything that's front of mind, where you go, yeah, that's a pretty big question. I'm less less lazy, fair than I used to be on a societal level.

谈到更新想法，你最近有没有对某些事情改变了看法？我指的是最近的变化。其实我一直都在更新想法。但你是在问哲学或存在主义方面的事情，还是说技术方面的？是的，哲学和存在主义方面的事情，或者任何你想到的。如果有任何让你觉得这是个很重要的问题的地方，我对社会层面的漠不关心比以前少了。

I think that culture and religion are good cooperating systems for humans. And so if you want to operate in a higher trust society, you need to have sets of rules that people need to follow in obeys. They get along even if they're, you know, one size fits all doesn't work for everybody. They've moved up a little bit from libertarian. Yeah, pure libertarians get out competed and die. They get overrun because they're every man for himself. They can't coordinate. They can't coordinate exactly right. So the coordination problems, like culture exists to solve fundamental coordination problems, religion solves coordination problems, ethnicity solves coordination problems historically. And when you break down those coordination systems too fast and don't replace them with anything else, you get societal breakdown. So you can have very malfunctioning societies. You know, go to Japan versus go to any western city and you can see the difference being a culture that's working and a culture that's not.

我认为文化和宗教是人类合作的良好系统。如果你想在一个高信任度的社会中生活，就需要一套大家必须遵守的规则。即使这些规则不是一刀切，也能让人们和谐相处。从某种程度上说，这比纯粹的自由主义更有效。因为纯粹的自由主义者往往无法应对竞争而失败，他们会被压倒，因为他们的原则是各自为政，难以协调。文化和宗教等系统的存在就是为了解决根本的协调问题。从历史上看，文化、宗教和民族性都在解决协调困难方面发挥了作用。如果这些协调系统被过快地瓦解且没有被其他东西替代，社会就会崩溃，导致混乱。你可以通过比较日本和任何西方城市，看到一个正常运作的文化与不正常运作的文化之间的差异。

So I think that's like a broader set of things that I've changed my mind on. A fair bit. I used to be much more lazy, fair on that stuff. Let's put it that way. What else? I mean, on child raising, I've gotten a lot looser. You know, I'm still not like completely lazy, fair, but I'm much more realized that kids are going to be kids and you kind of let them do their thing. Is it a tale that has the ascending levels of like anarchism versus conservatism? Is that his insight like at the local level? I'm this. It seems like you've gotten to go the way. It's like at the child level, I'm an anarchist at the societal level. I'm a consumer. No, he was quoting somebody else as some brothers, I forget which ones, but he was making the point eloquently as he often does that at the family local level, he's a communist. His family level, you're a communist.

好的，我想这是一组更广泛的事情，我对此改变了看法。我曾经在这些事情上表现得更加懒散，可以这么说。在养育孩子方面，我现在变得宽松多了。我仍然不是完全放任不管，但我更多地意识到孩子就是孩子，应该让他们自己发展。这是否意味着一个从无政府主义到保守主义的逐渐上升的层次？这是他在地方层面的洞察吗？在孩子这个层面上，我比较自由，在社会层面上，我比较传统。不，他引用了一些兄弟的话，我忘记是哪几个了，但他常以一种优雅的方式指出，在家庭这个层面上，他更像是一个共产主义者。在家庭层面上，你像一个共产主义者。

At maybe the extended family level, you're a socialist. At the local level, you're kind of a Democrat and so on until at the federal level, you're a libertarian, right? So you've done it the other way. You know, being a libertarian with the kids and you're being religious and servant of a society. No, that's a funny way of looking at it. I don't know if the scale is that simple. What else have I changed my mind on? I mean, I think the modern AI is really cool. I think it's, but I think these are natural language computers. They are starting to show evidence of kind of reasoning at some levels, but I don't think they do creativity. I think modern AI. And one of my favorite takes is from Dwakash Patel and he says, if you gave any human on the planet, not 0.0.1% of the consumption that LLM has any LLM, they would have come up with thousands of new ideas.

在大家庭层面上，你可能是个社会主义者。在地方层面上，你有点像民主党人，依此类推，直到在联邦层面上，你是个自由意志主义者，对吧？所以你是反过来的。在孩子们面前表现得像个自由意志主义者，同时又是一个宗教信徒和社会的仆人。这是个有趣的看待方式。我不知道这个尺度是否如此简单。还有什么我改变了主意呢？我的意思是，我认为现代人工智能真的很酷。我觉得这些是处理自然语言的计算机，它们开始在某些层面上表现出推理能力，但我认为它们不具备创造力。我欣赏Dwakash Patel的一个观点，他说如果给地球上任何一个人0.01%的LLM消耗，他们将能想出成千上万个新点子。

Give me one new idea. One fundamental new idea that's being generated. Yeah, like I'm big into poetry. Every poem ever written by an LLM is garbage. I think even their fiction writing is terrible. Even the new GPT-405 with all due respect to Sam and crew. I think they're terrible writers. I find them really bad at summarizing. They're really good at extrapolating, you know, paperwork. They're very bad at actually distilling the essence of something and what's important. They don't have an opinion or a point of view. But they're still unbelievably powerful breakthroughs. They solve search. They solve natural language computing. They make English programming language. They solve driving. They solve simple coding and backup coding. They solve translation. They solve transcription.

给我一个新的想法。一个正在产生的基本新想法。是的，比如我非常喜欢诗歌。然而，所有由大型语言模型（LLM）创作的诗歌都不怎么样。我甚至认为它们的小说写作也很糟糕。即使是最新的GPT-405，也是如此，尽管对Sam和他的团队表示尊重。我觉得他们是糟糕的作家。我发现他们在总结方面很弱。他们在推断和处理复杂文档方面很擅长，但在提炼事物本质和重点方面很差。他们没有自己的观点或立场。但这些模型仍然是惊人的突破。它们解决了搜索问题，解决了自然语言计算问题。他们让英语变成了一种编程语言。他们解决了驾驶、简单编码和备份编码的问题。他们解决了翻译和转录的问题。

They are a fundamental breakthrough in computing. It is a different way to program a computer, right? Then you explicitly speak its language, you write the code and then run through the data through it. You just run enough data through it until it figures out how to write the program. That's huge. Are they AGI? Not yet. I don't see a direct path from here to there. Maybe we'll have to solve a few more problems before that happens. I think ASI is a fantasy. I don't think there's any such thing. There's artificial superintelligence where it has some kind of intelligence that humans can't fathom. Okay. Yeah, it seems like, I don't know, if you're from the boss room camp or whatever and what is it? No, I'm not an AI Doomer. I think that's such a flawed line of reasoning.

它们在计算领域中是一个基础性的突破。这是一种不同于传统的编程方式，对吧？你需要用特定的语言明确地编写代码，然后通过它处理数据。你只需要输入足够多的数据，直到它找到编写程序的方法。这非常重要。它们是AGI（通用人工智能）吗？还不是。我看不出从现在到达那一步的直接路径。也许我们在那之前还需要解决几个问题。我认为ASI（超级人工智能）是一种幻想，我不认为有那样的东西。超级人工智能是指一种人类无法理解的智能。好的。是的，我不知道，你是否来自某种极端AI拥护者阵营，还是其他什么。我不是AI悲观论者。我认为那样的推理方式有很大的缺陷。

But let's say that you came out of the lesswrong.com, like Slate Starcoodec world. There was this lineage from computers and AI gets more powerful, more powerful, more powerful, and then you end up AGI, ASI. It seems like LLMs have been this sort of orthogonal move from that, which are you saying you don't believe they are a step on that? It's kind of a little bit of a digital branch. I think Stephen Wolfram puts it better. It's a different form of intelligence. It's like if you see a jaguar in the jungle that has a different form of intelligence. And you're like a plant has a form of intelligence, how it can like photosynthesize and grow. It's a different form of intelligence. It's not an intelligence, again, like love or like happiness is overloaded word that means many things to many people.

假设你来自lesswrong.com这样的社区，或者像Slate Star Codex这样的世界。按照这个思路，计算机和人工智能会变得越来越强大，最终出现通用人工智能（AGI）和超人工智能（ASI）。然而，看起来大语言模型（LLMs）是从这个路径中横向发展出来的东西。你是否认为它们并不是通向那条路径的一步？这有点像数字发展的一个分支。我觉得Stephen Wolfram的说法更好：这是一种不同形式的智能。就像在丛林中看到美洲豹，那是一种不同形式的智能；你会觉得植物通过光合作用和生长展示了一种智能。这是一种不同的智能，而不是像‘爱’或‘幸福’那样的词，那些词对不同的人意味着许多不同的事情。

But by my definition, where you know, the true test is you get what you want out of life. It doesn't even have a life. It doesn't even want anything. It's just a different thing. I do think it's unbelievably useful. I'm glad that it exists. You don't see it much yet in large scale production systems replacing humans because this tendency to hallucinate so you can't put it into anything. Critic confidently wrong one time out of time. Correct. It doesn't even know when it's wrong. And maybe they'll get that one out of 10 down to one out of 100. But you kind of always want human oversight for critical critical things. I always feel so bitter. It's I'm petty sometimes. My less equanimous version of me is petty. I always want to teach it a lesson if it gets something wrong.

根据我的定义，真正的考验在于你能否从生活中得到你想要的东西。而它甚至没有生命，甚至没有任何欲望，它就是一种不同的存在。我认为它非常有用，我很高兴它的存在。你还不常在大规模生产系统中看到它替代人类，因为它有产生幻觉的倾向，所以不能应用在任何事情上。它会信心满满地犯错，而且甚至不知道自己在哪儿出错了。也许将来他们能把出错概率从十分之一降低到百分之一，但在关键的事务上你总是希望有人类监督。我有时会感到苦涩，对此耿耿于怀。情绪不平和的时候，我会有些小气。如果它出错，我总想教训它一番。

Like how the fuck like no, you were so confident. I'm treating it, but I'm anthroposizing. I'm throwing it all the way. It doesn't have a point of view and they are going to get a lot better and they might get to the point where the air rates are so low that you can put them into certain bounded problems. Like self-driving, I think, will be solved completely because it's a bounded problem. Cars don't go off road and drive through houses and stuff like that. Because and same way, like certain kinds of coding, the creative side of coding I think doesn't go away. I think if any thing programmers get even more leverage and more powerful and rather than computing or replacing programmers, programmers use AI to replace everybody else.

就像，怎么说呢？你曾那么自信，我正在处理这个问题，但我有点把它人化了，我要全盘抛开。它本身没有特定的观点，不过它们会变得更好，甚至可能到达一个阶段，错误率低到可以在某些有限制的问题中应用。比如完全解决自动驾驶的问题，因为它是一个有限制的问题。汽车不会偏离道路穿越房屋之类的。同样，某些类型的编码，创意性的编码我认为不会消失。实际上，程序员可能会变得更有影响力，而不是电脑取代程序员，而是程序员使用人工智能来取代其他工作。

On Tesla versus Wi-mo, would you bet on software or hardware for self-driving? Yeah. So I think Tesla is in the stronger, longer term position, but it's hard to argue what's working right now and Waymo is working right now. So I would not underestimate them because there's a learning curve that you go through when you actually deploy something and Waymo is way ahead in that regard. But Tesla's camera only approach if it works is as superior, it's much more scalable. And Tesla knows how to print cars. They can just mass manufacture cars. But I think they'll both be around. They'll both be fine. It's everybody else who doesn't have a self-driving vehicle that's screwed.

关于特斯拉和Waymo之间的竞争，你会选择软件还是硬件来支持自动驾驶技术呢？我认为，从长远来看，特斯拉处于更有利的位置，但目前来看，Waymo的技术已经在实际中运作得很好，不能低估他们的实力，因为在实际部署过程中，会积累很多经验，而在这方面Waymo走在前面。不过，特斯拉的单摄像头方案如果成功，将具有更高的优越性，并且更易于扩展。此外，特斯拉具备大规模生产汽车的能力。但是，我认为两家公司都会有很好的发展，问题在于其他没有自动驾驶技术的公司将会处于不利位置。

You mentioned kids there and you had a tweet that said, I'm not convinced that declining fertility needs to be proactively fought. I forgot that one. You're going to have to, I dug deep. Why? I mean, think back. It was at 30 years ago, 20 years ago, everybody was saying overpopulation of the earth, it's going to be a problem. Alphusian ending. We're going to have too many people. And now we're going to have too few people.

你提到了孩子，你发过一个推特说，我并不认为需要积极应对生育率下降。我忘记这一条了，你需要提醒我一下。我深入挖掘了一下资料。为什么呢？想想看，30年前、20年前，每个人都在说地球的人口过剩将成为一个问题，是马尔萨斯式的末日论调。我们会有太多人，现在却说我们的人口会太少。

So part of it is just, the humor is a meme, is always alive and well. Right? Or just get three pockets. Yeah, we're running out of oil. We have too much oil. It's like the world is cooling. The world is warming. Like there's always something to scream about the world is ending. There's no progress in technology. It's going to blow up the world. So people tend to overdo in both directions. Now what is the actual fertility problem? Right? Well, people are having less kids. Are they having less kids because there's a disease? Was there a virus? Did they lose their fertility? The microplastics and the testicles? Right? No.

所以部分原因是，这种幽默就像一个流行文化梗，总是活跃并广泛流传。对吧？或者说，只是找几个插兜的问题。比如说，我们的石油要用完了，我们的石油又太多了。类似地，有人说地球在变冷，又有人说地球在变暖，总是有理由大喊世界末日。还有人说科技没有进步，或者科技会毁灭世界。所以人们倾向于在这两种极端之间过度解读。那实际的生育问题是什么呢？实际上是人们在生的孩子变少了。他们生的孩子少是因为有病吗？是不是有病毒？是失去了生育能力吗？是塑料微粒影响到生育吗？这些都不是。

People are having less kids because they're choosing to have less kids. Women have gotten emancipation and independence and the workforce and they're making more money. People don't need kids as an insurance policy. So they have less kids. Maybe they're living a heat in the stick lives. God bless them. They want them more fun. They want to have less kids. Maybe the act of choosing to have less kids is a problem. Okay.

人们之所以生育更少的孩子，是因为他们主动选择了这样做。随着女性获得解放和独立，并在职场中获得更多收入，人们不再需要通过生育孩子来保障自己的未来。因此，他们选择生育更少的孩子。也许他们过着舒适而偏远的生活，愿上帝保佑他们。他们希望生活更有趣，因此选择少生孩子。也许主动选择少生孩子本身就是个问题。好的。

So let's move one level up. It's because of retirees. It's because a large percentage of the population is essentially retiring at the guaranteed age of 65 or 70. Thanks to social security. And so they need other people to pay for it. They need more workers in the workforce. And if the workforce is shrinking, then you have a small number of people exactly who are supporting a large number of retirees. And in democracies, you can't take pensions away. The voters vote you out. So this slowly strangled the economy.

让我们提升一个层次来看，是因为退休人员的问题。由于社会保障制度，很多人基本上在65或70岁这个固定年龄退休。因此，他们需要其他人来为他们的退休金买单，需要更多的劳动力。如果劳动力在减少，那么就会出现少数人供养大量退休人员的情况。在民主制度下，你不能取消退休金，否则选民会投票把你赶下台。因此，这种情况会慢慢拖垮经济。

So what do you do? Then you have a bunch of immigration. And then the whole culture changes. You end up in a low trust society and people start fighting over limited resources and how do you control which immigrants come in and how do you make sure that they're good taxpayers after they're in and so on. So you end up with in kind of this trap where the low fertility rate is upstream of the downstream problems that are cultural societal. But I'm not sure that you're going to solve that by making people have more kids.

那么，你该怎么办呢？然后你会遇到大量的移民涌入，整个文化随之改变。结果是，你会生活在一个信任度较低的社会中，人们开始为有限的资源争斗，并且如何控制哪些移民可以进入、如何确保他们进来后成为好的纳税人等等，这些问题接踵而至。于是，你陷入了一种困境，即低生育率是造成文化和社会问题的上游原因。但我不确定我们能通过让人们多生孩子来解决这个问题。

How are you going to meme them into having more kids? And I'm not even sure it's necessarily a problem because keep in mind, you have more resources now. You have less of a burden. Now there's a flip side where every kid has a lottery ticket in my invention. So there's some benefit to having more kids. But you can't force it. I think it'll work itself out. The Scott Adams is this is a great law which causes the Adams law of slow moving disasters. When disasters are very slow moving like peak oil or global warming or population collapse and everyone can kind of see them coming.

你打算如何通过塑造网络文化来鼓励大家生更多孩子呢？但我不确定这个问题是否真的那么严重，因为要知道，大家现在拥有更多资源，负担也减少了。另一方面，我的发明让每个孩子都有一张中奖的彩票，所以生更多孩子可能有一些好处。不过，你不能强迫人们。我觉得事情会自行解决。斯科特·亚当斯提到，这是一个伟大的法则，被称为亚当斯的缓慢灾难法则。像石油峰值、全球变暖或人口减少这些缓慢发展的灾难，大家都能看到它们正在逼近。

Economics and society is a force to solve them because enough individual people has incentives to go solve them. So I don't know exactly how it gets solved but I think it could get solved in various ways. One example could be maybe people retire later. Maybe AI and automation and robots take care of the older people. Maybe we figure out how to have immigrants while still keeping a high-trust society. We kind of put more rules around immigration that protects them with the high-trust benefits.

经济和社会是一股解决问题的力量，因为有足够多的个人有动力去解决这些问题。我不确切知道这些问题会如何解决，但我相信可以通过多种方式解决。比如，人们可能会选择更晚退休。也许人工智能、自动化和机器人技术能够照顾老年人。也许我们可以在保持高信任社会的同时，找到接纳移民的方法。为此，我们可能会在移民方面制定更多规则，以在享受高信任度福利的同时加以保护。

Maybe we outsource more things. Maybe we just have more land and housing to go around. Believe me, if we were having too many kids, it would be complaining about how there's no housing and there's no land. So they'll always find something to care about. So I just don't view this as like a thing that any individual or government action is going to solve. I think economics and incentives over time will solve it. And I'm not even convinced it's like that big of a problem.

也许我们可以外包更多的事情。也许我们只是有更多的土地和住房可以使用。相信我，如果我们真的有太多孩子，人们就会抱怨没有住房和土地。因此，他们总会找到某些问题来关心。所以，我不认为这是任何个人或政府行动能够解决的问题。我认为经济和激励措施随着时间推移会自行解决这个问题。而且我甚至不觉得这算是个大问题。

Is there anything that you do think? It may be self-correcting too, which is that if there are too few kids in society and they're returned to having kids, literally it might just go up. It might just be easier to have. The incentive to now have a child because there are so few around. They're going to get the best job. They're going to have so much fun with these resources. Like everyone wants to have these resources.

你有什么想法吗？这可能是一种自我纠正的情况：如果社会中的孩子太少，人们就会回归生育，生育率可能会自然增加。因为孩子少，所以养育孩子可能会变得更容易。因为孩子少，现在生孩子的动机会增加。他们将能得到最好的工作，享受充足的资源。像人人都想要这些资源一样。

I suppose if you could come at it from a pain side, which is you look at all of the other people around who don't have kids. Let's say that pensions completely drop off and the only way the old people are able to survive is if their children pay them some sort of stipend, like reverse, you know, send money back up to generations. You go, well, that's a pretty fucking good incentive. That's a good incentive.

我想如果你从一种痛苦的角度来看待这个问题，你会看到周围那些没有孩子的人。假设养老金彻底消失，老人们唯一的生存方式就是让他们的孩子给他们一些补贴，类似于反向的供养方式，把钱从年轻一代送回给上一代。你会觉得，那是一个相当不错的动力。

I also think that people have been meamed in the thinking that kids make your life worse. And that's a pretty bad experience. What's your experience being? Kids make your life better in every possible way. If you want an automatic building meeting to life, have kids. And I think there are these bad psych studies, like most psych studies, unfortunately, that say that people are unhappy when they have kids.

我也认为人们被误导了，他们觉得孩子会让生活变得更糟糕。这是一种很糟糕的想法。你有什么样的经历呢？在各方面，孩子都会让你的生活变得更好。如果你想给生活增添自动的乐趣，就去生孩子。我觉得有些心理学研究得出的结论是错误的，就像大多数心理学研究一样，遗憾的是，有些研究说有了孩子后人们会不快乐。

Yeah, it's because you're catching in the middle of changing a diaper and you're saying, like, are you glad you had kids or not? Or they don't even say that. They say, are you happy or not? And they say, no, I'm not happy right now. But what they don't realize is that person has found something more important than being happy in the moment. They found meaning. And the meaning comes from kids.

是啊，这就像你在给孩子换尿布的时候，被问到“你觉得生孩子后悔吗？”甚至有时候他们只问：“你现在快乐吗？”而你可能会回答：“我现在并不快乐。”但其实他们没意识到的是，这个人找到了比及时快乐更重要的东西，那就是意义。这个意义来源于孩子。

And if you ask parents, do you regret having kids? I think it would be 99 to 1 against, you know, it would be, no, I don't regret having kids. I love having kids. I'm so glad I had kids. It's incredibly rare to meet a parent that regretted having children. It's pretty good odds. Yeah, it's extremely good odds. And I think, so I think, I think a lot of people get late into life and, you know, then they can't admit that they didn't want kids, that they should have had kids.

如果你问父母们，他们是否后悔生孩子，我想答案会是99比1的比例都是否定的。大多数会说：“不，我不后悔有孩子。我爱有孩子，我很高兴自己有了孩子。” 很少能遇到后悔生孩子的父母。这样的几率还是相当大的。是的，这几率非常高。我觉得很多人在人生的后期会意识到，他们可能无法承认自己当初不想要孩子，或许他们本应该拥有孩子。

It's kind of late in the game. But you know, a lot of times you see everybody who has a pet, right? And they're pushing them around in a stroller. Right. What is that? That's a sublimated desire for children. Yeah. Malcolm Collins says that having a pet is to children is using porn is to sex. You basically think that it's sort of a surrogate. It's definitely in that direction. And I don't have to. I like pets. I like animals, I don't, but I don't like the idea of like, neutering or spaying something and then keeping it as a prisoner in the house and having to train it. You know, it's just, I don't want to be responsible for that.

这好像有点晚了。不过你知道，很多时候你看到每个人都有一只宠物，对吧？然后他们用婴儿车推着宠物。这是什么呢？这是一种对孩子的潜在渴望。Malcolm Collins 说，养宠物对于孩子的意义，就像色情作品对于性的意义。基本上可以认为宠物是孩子的替代品，确实是这样的方向。但我不必这样，我喜欢宠物，我喜欢动物，但我不喜欢把它们绝育然后关在家里，还得训练它们。我不想承担这样的责任。

Given that you've been thinking more about child rearing kids, what do you hope that your kids learn from that childhood? This is, be happy and do what they want. I don't, I don't have particular goals in mind for them. I think that's it. That's another route to unhappiness having different goals. That's different though, right? Then learn, learn versus goals. It's not necessarily what do they want. What do you want them to want out of life? Like what is it that you had that idea around your number one job as a parent is to provide unconditional love to your kids. That's it. Yeah. That's it.

鉴于你一直在思考如何养育孩子，你希望孩子们从童年中学到什么呢？就是，希望他们快乐，并做自己想做的事情。我并没有为他们设定具体的目标。我认为，有不同的目标可能是通往不快乐的另一条途径。不过，这和学习不同，对吧？学习和目标并不一样。这并不是他们想要什么，而是你希望他们从生活中得到什么？我认为作为父母的首要责任，就是给孩子无条件的爱。就是这样。

Right. So I can be loved or I am loved unconditionally. Is that one of the things that I want my kids to feel unconditionally loved and I want them to have high self esteem as a consequence of that. I don't get to choose any, all I get to choose in my output, I can output love. I can't choose what they feel. I can't choose how they behave. I can't choose what they want. I can't choose what they turn out to be. And downstream from that, there should be freedom. There should be a degree of freedom that comes from the self esteem that comes from the unconditional.

好的。因此，我可以被无条件地爱，或者我已经被无条件地爱。这是我希望我的孩子们感受到的一点：无条件的爱。我希望他们因此拥有高自尊。我无法选择其他东西，我唯一能选择的是我的付出，我可以付出爱。我不能选择他们的感受，不能选择他们的行为，不能选择他们的愿望，也不能选择他们将来会成为什么。而在这之后，应该有一定的自由度，这种自由源于来自于无条件之爱的自尊。

Yeah, they should make their own mistakes and learn their own lessons and have their own desires and fulfill them as appropriate. I like any parent, I wouldn't want them to be hurt. I wouldn't want them to be unhappy, but I cannot control these things. You replied to my friend Rob Henderson, he was talking about how kids fall asleep more quickly when they're being carried. And you said, cry it out and co-sleeping is dangerous. What's IYI science? IYI is a Nassim Talab. It's how intellectual yet idiot. These are people who are overeducated and they deny basic common sense.

是的，他们应该自己犯错误，学到自己的教训，拥有自己的渴望，并在合适的时候去实现它们。像任何父母一样，我不希望他们受伤，也不希望他们不快乐，但我无法控制这些事情。你回复了我的朋友Rob Henderson，他在谈论孩子在被抱着的时候更容易入睡。你说，让孩子哭着入睡和与父母共眠是危险的。什么是IYI科学？IYI是Nassim Taleb的说法，意思是“聪明却愚蠢”。这些人受过高等教育，却否认基本的常识。

Okay. A lot of that goes on in child rearing, thanks to really bad studies and bad public medical directives. For example, a few parents, maybe they're drunk or they're high or they're just other issues, and they roll over their kid when they're sleeping, the kids suffocates or they neglect their kid and then they're- That's what co-sleeping is having them in the bed. Yeah, exactly. Or the modern proclamation. And so because of that, they say, well, don't co-sleep with your kids. The kids in every society through all of human history, co-sleep with their parents. Where else do you think they were sleeping?

好的，在育儿过程中，由于一些很差的研究和不当的公共医疗指导，出现了很多问题。举个例子，少数父母可能喝醉了或吸毒了，又或者有其他问题，他们在睡觉时翻过身压到孩子，导致孩子窒息，或者他们忽视了孩子。这就是所谓的共同睡眠，就是让孩子和父母一起睡在床上。是的，没错。现在一些人就会因此说，不要和孩子共同睡眠。但是在人类历史上，各个社会的孩子都是和父母一起睡的。你觉得他们还能睡在哪里呢？

They weren't- How is the multiple rooms in the other tent? Yeah, exactly. We'll put them in their tent. We'll put it- It's just nonsense. Co-sleeping has been around since the dawn of time. So has feeding kids cow milk when or goat milk when breast milk runs out or is not available. Yet we're told formula made with soy and corn syrup, which was invented recently is somehow better than cow milk. Cow milk can be dangerous for your kids and co-sleeping is dangerous for your kids and cry it out is a right answer. All of that is nonsense.

他们不是——另一个帐篷的多间房怎么样？对，正是这样。我们会把他们放在他们的帐篷里。我们会这样做——简直是无稽之谈。与孩子同睡自古以来就有了。就像在母乳不足或无法供应时，给孩子喝牛奶或羊奶一样。然而，现在有人告诉我们，最近才发明的用大豆和玉米糖浆制成的奶粉比牛奶更好。牛奶对你的孩子可能有危险，与孩子同睡对你的孩子有危险，让孩子哭出来是正确的。这一切都是无稽之谈。

I mean, it's very clear that we raised children throughout human history without these interventions. And to me, the idea that like you're going to let your kid cry it out, I get why that's done for practical reasons. So that you can get some sleep and you can go to work in the morning. But the reality is when you let the kid cry it out, you're letting the kid ball until the fun that gives up. I mean, a kid left by itself to cry it out. And the wildestness. It's going to get eaten. Right. It's going to get eaten by a tiger.

我的意思是，纵观人类历史，我们在没有这些干预措施的情况下养育了孩子。对我来说，让孩子哭一会儿的想法是可以理解的，因为从实际角度考虑，这样做是为了让父母能好好睡觉，第二天去上班。但实际上，当你让孩子哭的时候，本质上是让孩子哭到放弃。要是一个孩子独自哭泣而没人理会的话，在野外这样的环境中，那孩子可能会被老虎吃掉。

So this kid is starting off on the wrong foundation. The one I mentioned earlier about the idea that babies don't feel pain like that's ludicrous, right? I've never heard that before. That's such a wild thing. Yeah, I'm not saying that's 100% true. I read it on. I've been child in the cheek quite hard and sick. That's in the category of I read it on Twitter and I did one level confirmation on it, but it's so ludicrous that I should probably do two or three level confirmations on it before talking about it.

这个孩子一开始就建立在错误的基础上。我之前提到过的那个观点，即婴儿感觉不到疼痛，这简直太荒谬了，对吧？我以前从没听说过这种说法，真是太离谱了。不过，我并不是说这百分之百是真的。我在网上看到了，有一次我狠狠地捏了一个孩子的脸颊，他病了。这类信息属于我在推特上看到并且只验证了一次的内容，但是因为它实在太荒唐，所以在谈论之前我可能需要再多验证两三次。

There are definitely some people who believe that. They're enough that it was the thing in certain circles for a while. But I think we just go through these, you know, these IYI beliefs, these intellectually it believes come from people who take a little bit of knowledge and extrapolate it too far. They think we know more than we know due to recent scientific studies. And these are junk science. These are low power studies on, you know, on very certain contexts that then get over applied. I think it's very guilty of this, but it's true across a lot of science.

有些人确实相信这些观点。在某些圈子里，这种想法曾一度流行。但我认为我们往往会经历这些所谓的“伪知识”信仰，这种观点通常是那些仅掌握一点点知识的人过度推断得出的。他们因为一些最近的科学研究，误以为我们掌握了更多的知识。而这些研究其实是伪科学，是在非常特定的情况下进行的低效研究，却被过度应用。我认为这是一个很常见的现象，不仅在某个领域，而是在很多科学领域中都存在。

So even with science, you have to be skeptical. You have to look very carefully at, you know, does apply in the right context or not, as it comes from good sources, did they run enough high power studies, widely accepted. And there are a whole bunch of things we're just not supposed to talk about. You're not supposed to say, like you don't say, like you can't say anything negative about a vaccine because God forbid, what if they don't get the polio vaccine, right?

即使面对科学也要保持怀疑态度。你需要仔细地去评估，比如说，研究是否适用于正确的背景，它是否来自可靠的来源，这些研究是否进行了足够多的高质量试验，以及是否被广泛接受。有很多事情我们通常被告知不该讨论，比如，你不能对疫苗说任何负面的东西，因为人们担心，如果大家不接种脊髓灰质炎疫苗怎么办。

And that's part of the reason why the recent vaccine debate because we've taken our worship for vaccines too far because we don't want people to not take non-essential vaccines. So it gets overdone. So the same way, there's this whole sidd's thing, sudden infant death syndrome, right? I was like, no, there's kids don't suddenly mysteriously die. Like more likely, there was neglect or there was a problem. And then whoever was a caretaker doesn't want to admit to the problem or didn't recognize the problem, but kids don't just spontaneously die in the crib, right?

这也是最近疫苗辩论的一部分原因所在。我们对疫苗的推崇可能走得太远了，因为我们不希望人们不接种那些非必需的疫苗，这就导致了过度推崇。同样地，有一种叫做婴儿猝死综合症的情况，对吧？我觉得，孩子们不会神秘地突然死亡。更有可能的是，可能存在疏忽或者某些问题，然后孩子的看护者不希望承认这个问题或没有发现问题。但孩子不会无缘无故地在婴儿床里猝死，对吧？

So they talk about swaddling babies. You swaddle babies, you know, basically tie them up, mummify them. So you constrict them so they can die of sidd's when they roll over and they can't get back. I mean, it's just all this craziness around you. I'm telling you everything. It's a real minefield. It's a minefield. And, you know, you have these scared parents. They're having a kid for the first time and they open a book and they start reading how to raise children.

他们在讨论包裹婴儿。你知道，就是给婴儿裹上布，把他们裹得紧紧的，像木乃伊一样。这样做的危险是当婴儿翻身时可能会导致窒息而亡，因为他们无法翻回去。我是说，这一切都让人感到疯狂。我告诉你，这真是一片雷区，是个雷区。你知道，这些初为人父母的人感到害怕，他们第一次有了孩子，就打开一本书，开始阅读如何养育孩子的内容。

I would argue that your natural instincts and what to do with your child are actually pretty good. It's funny when my wife and I had her first baby. I remember, you know, at the hospital, sorry, the first one was a natural birth. At the Burdening Center, we went home and I was like, there you go. That's it. And we're like, what do we do? Where's the instruction manual? You take them home. And then you relax and you're like, actually, instincts are pretty good.

我认为你对孩子的天然直觉和处理方法其实非常不错。有趣的是，当我和妻子有了第一个孩子时，我还记得，在医院——抱歉，第一个是在自然分娩中心出生的。我们回到家时，我心想，就这样了。这就是全部了。然后我们就想，我们该干什么？说明书在哪？你把孩子带回家，然后你放松下来，发现其实凭直觉做得还不错。

You know, if the kid cries, check to see the clean, feed them all that. It's like your basic instincts are actually very, very good. And kids' instincts are actually very, very good. They know what they want and they want things for a reason. And they can encourage you to give it to them. Yes. It's usually children are not deficient adults who can't reason. And to some extent, that's true, but mostly it's not true.

你知道，如果孩子哭了，首先要检查是不是尿布脏了，喂他们吃东西等等。这些都是你基本的本能，其实都很管用。孩子的直觉也非常好，他们知道自己想要什么，并且是有原因的。他们能激励你满足他们的需求。是的，通常来说，孩子并不是不能推理的缺乏能力的小大人。在某种程度上，这可能是真的，但大多数情况下并不是这样。

Mostly they have very good reasons for what they want. And you as a parent mostly have communication problems with them. They can't yet communicate to you. You can communicate to them. They can communicate to you. So early on with my kids, I tried to focus on teaching them basic explanatory theories and you're so cute. Having the member of. It's just the most nerve-wracking.

大多数情况下，他们有想要的东西是有充分理由的。而作为父母，你往往在与他们沟通时遇到困难。他们还不能很好地与你沟通，但你是可以与他们沟通的。他们能够与你沟通。因此，在我的孩子还小的时候，我就尝试专注于教他们一些基本的解释性理论，你真是太可爱了。成为父母的感觉真是最让人紧张的。

The most nerve-wracking solution. I'll give you a very simple example. Right. Okay, so this is Twitter. And this is how to get rich without getting lucky, right? So the first one. Well, a simple one is, how does knowledge get created? If you follow the critical rationalism, David Deutsch philosophy, then it's by guessing and then by testing your guesses. So whenever they ask me something like, well, what do you think that is? Well, how would we figure out if that's true, right?

最令人紧张的解决方案。我给你一个非常简单的例子。对，好，这是关于如何利用 Twitter 在不碰运气的情况下致富。那么，第一个问题是：知识是如何产生的？如果你遵循批判性理性主义和大卫·多伊奇（David Deutsch）的哲学，那么知识的产生就是通过猜测，然后检验这些猜测。所以每当他们问我类似的问题，比如你认为那是什么，或者我们该如何验证它是否真实时，我都会这样回答。

So that's the basic game you can play. Involving them. Involving them. But another one is that a lot of the rules that you teach kids have to do with hygiene. You must brush your teeth. Cover your mouth when you cough. You know, clean up after yourself. Don't touch that. Wash your hands after you do this. Don't eat food off the floor. But all of these are subsumed under the germ theory of disease.

所以，这就是你可以玩的基本游戏：让他们参与进来。让他们参与进来。但是，还有一个重要方面就是你教孩子的一些规则大多与卫生有关。你必须刷牙。咳嗽时要捂住嘴。自己弄脏的地方要清理干净。别碰那个。做完这些事情后要洗手。不要从地上捡食物吃。这些规则其实都可以归到“细菌致病理论”下。

Right. So if you instead go on YouTube and show them videos of germs or if you have them looking to a microscope at anything, like, ah, like, it's in fur, what's going on. There's creepy crawlies everywhere and I got to watch out for them. And then, you know, you can talk about how if you look at humans, like our real enemy are pathogens.

好的。所以，如果你让他们看YouTube上的关于细菌的视频，或者让他们通过显微镜观察任何东西，比如看起来像皮毛里的情况，很多小虫子到处爬来爬去，我得小心它们。然后，你可以谈论一下如果从人体的角度看，我们真正的敌人是病原体。

I think a lot of aging and disease are actually downstream of our competition with pathogens over time to a point that people still don't fully appreciate. There's a red queen hypothesis, which is that we undergo sexual selection to mix up our genes. And so every 20 years, every generation makes up your genes. But if you look at how bacteria and viruses mutate through just random mutations, their mix up rate on their genes and evolution rate is roughly the same as ours. Even though they go through thousands of generations those 20 years because they're not doing sexual selection, they're doing asexual replication mutation. Their, their evolutionary rate is roughly equivalent to ours. So we're in a red queen race where we're both running at the roughly the same speed using very different strategies.

我认为，许多衰老和疾病实际上源于我们与病原体之间的长期竞争，这一点大家尚未完全理解。有一个"红皇后假说"，它指出我们通过性选择来混合基因。因此，每隔20年，每一代都会重新组合我们的基因。但如果看看细菌和病毒，它们通过随机突变来变化，其基因混合速率和进化速度与我们大致相同。尽管它们在这20年里经历数千代，因为它们不是通过性选择，而是通过无性复制和突变来繁殖。它们的进化速度大致等同于我们的。因此，我们参与了一场“红皇后竞赛”，在其中我们以非常不同的策略以大致相同的速度竞争。

But a lot of how we're involved is around pathogens. Like our immune system is one of the most expensive things to run the body. So much is about immune system optimization. That's about pathogens junk DNA and bacteria and crisper was discovered because in bacteria, their DNA is evolved to fight viruses. And the way it does that is by taking viral DNA and snipping it up every time there's a viral attack and storing it in their own DNA so they have a copy. So they can recognize it next time it attacks and, you know, and so on. A lot of the population structure of species determines how long their life spans are.

我们的参与在很大程度上与病原体有关。就像我们的免疫系统是维持身体运作中最昂贵的部分之一。因此，很多研究都集中在如何优化免疫系统。这涉及到病原体、垃圾DNA和细菌等方面。CRISPR技术的发现就是由于细菌的DNA进化出了对抗病毒的能力。它的工作原理是，在每次病毒入侵时，细菌会将病毒的DNA切割并存储在自己的DNA中，以便下次病毒再攻击时能够识别。物种的群体结构在很大程度上决定了它们的寿命长短。

So very, so if, if in a given species, there's a very high rate of infection, then you'll have these older members of the population are carrying diseases that will then infect the young. So it's important for that species to get rid of the old faster. So the higher the disease rate in a given population, the less long live the entire population. So the older ones don't infect the younger ones. That's a hypothesis. I'm not saying it's pretty interesting. It's an interesting hypothesis. Homeostasis within the human body, how we're always returning to a given level of things.

所以，如果在某一个物种中，感染率非常高，那么老年个体就会携带疾病并传染给年轻个体。因此，对这个物种来说，尽快淘汰年老的个体是很重要的。也就是说，在某个种群中，疾病率越高，整体寿命就越短，以避免老年个体感染年轻个体。这是一个假设。我不是说这个假设很美，但确实很有趣。就像人类身体中的稳态机制，我们身体总是努力维持在某种水平。

Like that's a fundamental part of our makeup or temperature, pH, blood pressure, and so on under a homeostasis. But if you engage in it kind of signaling like you take a peptide, for example, that's a signaling molecule. You take a hormone externally, the body will counteract it. You take testosterone, the body will counteract it. Well, down regulates own production very fast. And the body releases its own hormones and pulses rather than steady state. Why is that? Well, that's because bacteria and viruses can infect your body and trick your body. They can take it over.

在我们的生理系统中，像温度、pH值、血压等这样的要素都在一种体内平衡状态下运作。假如你人为引入某种信号，比如摄入肽（一种信号分子）或者外部激素，身体会进行反作用。例如，你摄入睾酮，身体会通过快速减少自身的睾酮生产来抵消这个外来影响。而且，身体是以脉冲型释放自身激素，而非恒定状态。这是为什么呢？这是因为细菌和病毒可能入侵并愚弄你的身体，它们可以借此控制你的身体。如果身体一直以恒定方式释放激素，就更容易被这些病原体利用。

Like toxoplasmosis does this, rabies does this, they take over macroscopic structure, structural bodies. And small bacteria and viruses would hack our bodies and literally take them over if we didn't have defense mechanisms. And one of the defense mechanisms is homeostasis. Anytime you see something getting out of whack, you immediately push back really hard on it. Because like, did I just get infected? Something trying to take me over. It's also why hormones get released in pulses at night rather than in steady state. Low levels because enemy bacteria can release toxins or the same signaling molecules in small quantities, but they can't pulse.

就像弓形虫和狂犬病一样，它们能够影响宏观结构，控制结构体。如果我们没有防御机制，小细菌和病毒就会想办法“入侵”我们的身体，并实际控制它们。而我们的一种防御机制就是体内平衡。任何时候发现身体有异常变化，我们都会立刻强烈反击。因为我们会想，是不是我被感染了？是不是有什么东西想要控制我？这也是为什么激素在夜间以脉冲的方式分泌，而不是持续稳定地分泌。这种低水平的分泌是因为敌对细菌可能释放毒素或者相同的信号分子，但它们无法以脉冲的形式进行释放。

They can't coordinate to pulse. So your body can coordinate to pulses and macroscopic object, but microscopic objects can coordinate to create the same pulse. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So there's all. So you know that it's coming from you. Is that one correct? You know that the dodgenous right and exogenous. So I never knew that. And that's why we resist a lot of exogenous treatments. A lot of our medical treatments don't work. Anyway, so there's a bunch more I could go on.

他们无法协调来形成脉冲。那么你的身体可以与脉冲和宏观物体协调，但微观物体也可以协调形成相同的脉冲。哦，那真是太酷了。是的。所以你知道它是来自你的。这是正确的吗？你知道内源性和外源性。我以前不知道这一点。这也是为什么我们对很多外源性治疗的抵抗力很强。很多我们的医学治疗方法并不起作用。不管怎样，还有很多内容我可以继续讲下去。

But I think that a lot of, you know, you see this in cancers where a lot of bacteria show up, but the Epstein bar of ours shows up in a lot of cancers. And, you know, now it seems like the gut microbiome influences so many things. Basically bacteria and viruses are at the top of the food chain compared to us. Like we are the top of the well-known food chain, but bacteria and viruses eat us fungus, eats us. So these microscopic predators are our natural predators.

我认为，很多情况下，你会发现一些癌症中出现大量细菌，但爱泼斯坦-巴尔病毒在许多癌症中也出现。而且，现在看来，肠道微生物群对许多事情都有影响。基本上，细菌和病毒在食物链顶端相对于我们来说占据优势。我们通常被认为是已知食物链的顶端，但细菌和病毒“吃掉”我们，真菌也“吃掉”我们。因此，这些微观捕食者是我们的自然天敌。

And so a lot of aging societal structure, hygiene, religious structures against pork, you know, circumcision, all of these things. These are all designed to resist bacteria and viruses. So if you can teach children this philosophy at an early age, you shortcut all the debates. How effective have you been at teaching that philosophy to children? That one I think I've been pretty effective. I've drilled that one at home.

很多老旧的社会结构，比如卫生习惯、宗教中对猪肉的禁忌、割礼等等，都是为了抵抗细菌和病毒。如果你能在孩子小的时候就教导他们这种理念，可以省去很多争议。你在这方面对孩子的教育效果如何呢？我认为我做得还不错，我在家里反复灌输这些观念。

The one I haven't quite gotten around to yet is evolution. Like I'm starting to do little bits of that, you know, like we came from monkeys. What does that mean? I already got them thinking about some of the deeper questions. I did ask my, you know, young son, like, you know, can nothing exist? I thought it was a fun question. So I had to throw a fun husband. Is it like full three? No, no, he's he's eight. Oh, right. What an eight year old and a six year old. So I asked them both like, can nothing exist? And they had pretty good answers, right? Another one we played with the other day was like, what is the matrix? Okay. We can know what is what is this? What is all this? I just find it and it's entertaining. It's just fun to talk about, right? To talk about these questions with your kids. I'm not saying that one is a good way of child raising. It's not leading to any deeper learning. Other than maybe just have them start or continue to question the basic structure of reality and not move past it so quickly.

我还没有完全涉足进化论这一话题。我开始简单地给孩子们讲一些关于人类从猴子进化而来的知识。这是什么意思呢？我已经开始让他们思考一些更深层次的问题了。我问过我小儿子一个有趣的问题：“无是可以存在的吗？”我觉得这是个有趣的问题，所以想要和他一起讨论。哦，他是八岁，不，等一下，是六岁和八岁的那两个。我问他们两个：“无是可以存在的吗？”他们的回答还挺不错的。我们前几天还玩过另一个话题，比如说“什么是矩阵？”我们到底了解多少呢？我觉得这些问题很有趣，非常有意思。和孩子们讨论这些话题很开心。当然，我不是说这种方式是最佳的育儿方式。它可能不会直接让孩子们学到很多知识，但至少可以让他们开始或继续质疑现实世界的基本结构，而不是过于匆忙地忽略这些疑问。

Also to take joy. What's the meta lesson that's being taught there? Dad, Dad spends time asking questions to which there are not necessarily an answer because there is something enjoyable in the process of learning and trying to decipher what's happening. Possibly. Also, Dad tries not too hard to teach people things. I don't want to be, I don't want to be didactic. He helps them to arise at it. Yeah, correct. Correct. Dad is here to help you solve problems when you have problems and you constantly have problems. So if you come to Dad, Dad can help explain to you how he would solve the problem. But most of the time they don't want that. Most of the time they just want to solve the problem. Sometimes it's have to play dumb. It's like, why is my Wi-Fi not working on my computer? I don't know. Did you click on that thing? You've got like a rebellious sovereign child sovereign as they may be, but sometimes they still need the dad to step in.

翻译成中文，这段文字的意思主要是：享受其中的乐趣。这里传达的隐含教训是什么呢？爸爸花时间提问一些可能没有明确答案的问题，因为学的过程本身和尝试去弄清楚正在发生的事情是很有趣的。可能是这样。而且，爸爸并不太过努力地试图直接教别人。他不想显得说教。他更倾向于帮助人们自己去得出结论。对，没错。爸爸在你遇到问题的时候会帮助你解决问题，你总是会有问题。所以如果你来找爸爸，爸爸可以帮你解释他会如何解决问题。但大多数时候，他们不想要这个，大多数时候他们只是想要一个解决方案。有时候得装傻，比如说：“我的电脑Wi-Fi为什么不工作了？”我不知道。你点那个东西了没？虽然你有一个叛逆自主的小孩，自主如他们所愿，但有时他们仍然需要爸爸来介入。

So in addition to feeling loved and having high self esteem, I think the most important trait that would be nice to not rob them of is agency. I want them to preserve their agency. They're born naturally agentic and willful, but a lot of child raising can beat that out of them by essentially domesticating them. Right. And I would rather have wild animals and wolves than have well-trained dogs. Because I'm not going to be around to take care of them. Yeah. So they're going to have to be able to look after them. Exactly. Yeah. A friend of mine, Parsa on Air Chat, he had a great saying. He said he wants his children to be quick to learn and hard to kill. That was pretty good. Yeah. That was cool. I remember you saying just thinking about sort of future and culture and stuff like that.

所以，除了感受到被爱和拥有高自尊之外，我认为最重要的就是不要剥夺他们的自主性。我希望他们能够保持自己的自主性。他们天生就有能动性和意志力，但很多教养方式会通过驯化的方式把这些品质磨灭。我宁愿让他们像野生动物或狼一样，而不是训练有素的狗，因为我不可能一直在他们身边照顾他们。所以，他们必须有能力照顾自己。对，我一个叫Parsa的朋友，在Air Chat上说过一句很棒的话：他希望他的孩子们“学习能力强，不容易被打败”。我觉得这说得很好。是的，我记得你以前提过这些关于未来和文化的想法。

I remember you saying that the left had won the culture war and now they're just driving around shooting the survivors. Right. After the last six months of change that we've seen and sort of where we're at at the moment, what do you think the future of the culture war looks like? It's not over yet. They definitely won early around. They took over institutions. I think now it's much more of a fair fight, where you have people like Elon kind of supporting. So there's these different forces through history, right? Historians will argue about this. But there's a fear of the great man of history thing where it's like, oh, you have the Einstein's, you have the Teslas, you have the Jenga's cons and the Caesars, right? They determine the flow of history.

我记得你说过左派赢得了文化战争，现在他们只是在到处追击幸存者。对。在我们所看到的过去六个月的变化以及我们目前所处的位置之后，你认为文化战争的未来会是什么样子？这场战争还没有结束。他们确实在早期取得了胜利，占领了很多机构。我认为现在的对抗更加均衡，比如有像马斯克这样的人在支持。所以历史上有各种不同的力量，对此历史学家会有争论。但有一种对所谓“历史伟人”的恐惧，比如爱因斯坦、特斯拉、成吉思汗和凯撒，这些人似乎在决定历史的走向。

And then there's the other point of view that no, there are these massive forces at play, you know, demographics and geography and so on. And then the particular great man doesn't matter. They just come and go Napoleon doesn't matter. They would have been somebody else. The specific names are not important. And because of kind of the leftist turn that our institutions took in the last few decades, they now only subscribe to the great forces theory of history, not the great man theory of history. But I think now we're seeing the two play out where you're seeing, you know, Trump and Elon and other individuals rising up and saying, no, we resist.

然后，还有另一种观点认为，不，这些巨大的力量正在发挥作用，比如人口结构和地理因素等等。而特定的伟人并不重要，他们只是来来去去。拿破仑不重要，换作其他人也可以。具体的名字并不重要。由于我们的机构在过去的几十年里走了一种偏左的路线，因此他们现在只认可历史的伟大力量论，而不是伟人论。但我认为现在我们可以看到两者的发挥，比如特朗普、埃隆·马斯克和其他一些人崛起并宣称不，我们要反抗。

Yeah, that's interesting. And I think that unfortunately, and so the battle, we look at these collectivists and great forces versus individuals, it's as old as humanity itself. And it is fundamental to the species. We are not a completely individualistic species. You know, no man is an island. A single person can't do anything by themselves. But we're also not a Borg. We're not a B hive. We're not an ant colony. We're not all just drones marching along. So which is it? We're somewhere in the middle and the human race is always kind of bouncing between the two. We like strong leaders. We like to be led. We like to coordinate our forces and mass and do things. But at the same time, we're also all individuals and willing to break away and willing to do our own thing.

是的，这很有趣。我认为不幸的是，个人与集体的对抗，这种较量自人类历史以来就存在，并且对我们的物种来说是根本性的。我们不是一个完全以个人主义为主的物种。正所谓“没有人是孤岛”，单凭一个人的力量是无法成事的。但我们也不是像博格、蜜蜂群或蚁群那样，全都是整齐划一的“工蜂”。那么，到底是什么呢？我们大概介于中间，人类总是在这两者之间摇摆。我们喜欢有力的领导者，渴望被引导，喜欢协作起来成就大业。但与此同时，我们又都是独立的个体，愿意脱离群体，做自己想做的事情。

And everyone's always fighting to build leaders, always status games going on. So there's a pendulum that's always swinging back and forth. And in modern economics, the way that manifests is between sort of Marxism and capitalism. Right? Marxism is like from each according to his ability to each according to his needs. We're all equal. There's a millennial project. We're all going to be equal in the end and you know, don't try and stand out. But do what's good for everybody.

每个人总是努力培养领导者，总是在进行地位游戏。因此，就像一个钟摆，总是在来回摆动。在现代经济中，这种情况表现为某种程度上的马克思主义和资本主义之间的对立。马克思主义的理念是：各尽所能、按需分配。我们都是平等的，这是一个千年计划，最终我们都会平等，你知道的，不要试图脱颖而出，而要做对大家有利的事。

And there's a religious aspect to it. And then the capitalist individualist is like a libertarian. Every man from a cell, if you just each do what you want, and you'll work out for the greater good, that's Adam Smith. You know, the invisible hand of the market will feed you. The baker should bake and the butcher should butcher. And the candlestick maker should make candlesticks. And it'll all work out. Each person does their best and they trade. And so which is it? Which theory is correct? And I think there's always going to be a battle between the two.

其中也有宗教层面的内容。另一方面，资本主义个人主义更像自由意志主义者。他们相信每个人从自身出发，只要各自做自己想做的事情，就会为整体的利益带来好的结果，这就是亚当·斯密的观点。市场的“看不见的手”会让你得到所需。面包师就应该专注于烘焙，屠夫就应该专门屠宰，蜡烛匠就应该制作蜡烛。这样一切都会得到解决。每个人都尽其所能，然后进行交易。那么，到底哪种理论是正确的呢？我认为两者之间总会存在竞争和较量。

And I think the interesting thing is what's going on. There's a modern flavor to it which changes it. The modern flavor is that the individual is getting more powerful because they're becoming more leverage. So someone like an Elon Musk can have the leverage of tens of thousands of brilliant engineers and producers working for him. He can have factories of robots manufacturing things. He can have hundreds of billions of dollars of capital behind him. And he can project himself through media to hundreds of millions of people. That is more power than any individual could have had historically. So the great men of history are becoming greater.

我认为有趣的地方在于当前发生的变化。现代的色彩改变了一切。这种现代色彩在于个人正变得更有力量，因为他们拥有更多资源和杠杆。所以像埃隆·马斯克这样的人可以拥有成千上万位优秀的工程师和生产者为他工作。他可以拥有机器人工厂来制造产品，并能背靠数千亿美元的资本。他还可以通过媒体向数亿人展示自己。这种力量比历史上任何个体都要强大。所以所谓的历史伟人在当下变得更加伟大了。

That said, that same leverage is increasing the gap between the haves and have knots. So in the wealth game, more people are winning overall. And the average is going up. But in the status game, there are essentially more losers. There are more invisible men and women who are getting nothing out of life and have no leverage, relatively speaking. Objectively speaking, they might be better off. They still have phones and they still have TVs. And it's not absolutely to scream. So we're relatively to scream. And so to the extent that we're relative creatures, there are more losers than winners.

话虽如此，同样的杠杆效应正在拉大富人和穷人之间的差距。因此，在财富游戏中，整体上越来越多的人在获胜，平均水平在提升。但在地位游戏中，失败者大大增加。有更多默默无闻的人得不到任何生活的好处，相对而言没有影响力。客观来看，他们的生活或许更好，他们还有手机和电视，情况并不算特别糟糕。但是从相对的角度来看，对于我们相对依存的生物来说，失败者多于成功者。

And in a democracy, those people will outnumber the winners and they will vote the winners down. And so that's the battle that kind of goes on. And the democracy has gotten very broad. And so one of my other quips is that it's not the right to vote that gives you power. It's power that gives you the right to vote. So we've confused the two. So what happened was voting started as a way for people who had power to divide up the power and not fight amongst themselves.

在民主制度中，失败者的人数往往会多于赢家，他们会投票反对赢家。这就是一直在进行的斗争。而且，民主的范围变得非常广泛。所以我另外有一句话是，不是投票权给了你力量，而是力量赋予了你投票权。我们常常把这两者弄混淆了。投票最初是有权力的人用来分配权力的方法，以避免内部冲突。

The winners of the revolution, the winners of the war, the people in the House of Lords and the House of Commons, they divide up power amongst themselves. They say, hey, we have all the money. We have the power. We're the knights. We have the swords. We have the warriors. We could kill everybody. But we don't want to just fight each other all day long. We don't want to be game of thrones forever. So we're going to divide up power by voting among ourselves.

革命的胜利者、战争的胜利者、上议院和下议院的人们，他们之间瓜分了权力。他们说，嘿，我们有所有的钱，我们有权力。我们是骑士，我们有剑，我们有战士，我们可以杀掉所有人。但我们不想整天互相争斗，也不想永远陷入权力的游戏中。所以，我们决定通过在内部投票来分配权力。

But then as society goes on and becomes more and more peaceful, that franchise for voting gets spread. It gets spread to people who don't have land, who don't have power, who may not be able to inflict physical violence. And then eventually you get to the point where everybody's voting. Everybody's voting. Everybody's voting for candy and fairies and all the free things in life. And then eventually, people start voting to oppress each other. The 51% in any domain vote to suppress the 49.

随着社会的发展，变得越来越和平，投票权开始向更广泛的人群扩展。投票权扩展到那些没有土地、没有权力、可能无法施加暴力的人。最终，我们达到一个人人都投票的阶段。人人都在投票，似乎是在为糖果、仙女和生活中所有免费的东西投票。然后最终，人们开始相互投票压制。在任何领域，51%的人可能投票来压制那49%。

It's the tyranny of the majority. But not all of them are willing to back that up with physical power. And so you can end up in a situation where people who don't have physical power are using the institutions of the state to control the people who do have physical power. As a simple example, taking the notice is the people who don't have guns voting to disarm the people that do have guns. Well, if the people who do have guns get coordinated and care enough, you can't do that. So I think eventually these societal structures are unstable. They break down. And they break down because eventually the people who have the power and say, no way, you don't get to vote. You only got to vote because you had power. And now you don't have power and you're somehow trying to vote.

这是多数人的专制。但并不是所有人都愿意用武力来支持这种专制。因此，你可能遇到这样一种情况：那些没有武力的人利用国家的制度来控制那些有武力的人。一个简单的例子是，没有枪的人投票要求解除有枪者的武装。如果有枪的人足够团结并在意这个问题，那这样的做法就行不通。所以，我认为这些社会结构最终是不稳定的，它们会崩溃。因为最终有权力的人会说，不行，你不能投票。你之所以能投票，是因为你有权力。而现在你没有权力，却还想投票。

All of nature, all of society, all of capitalism, all of human endeavors are underpinned by physical violence. And that is very hard truth to swallow and hard to get away from. Nature is red and tooth and claw. If you don't fight, you don't survive, you don't live, you die. And that's true of everything alive today. And humans are no different. So giving up physical power and then thinking you can exercise political power fails, which is why every communist revolution, which is all about equality and combi-a and brother and sisters end up being run by a bunch of thugs.

大自然、社会、资本主义以及人类的所有努力，其根基都是以暴力为基础的。这是一个很难接受的事实，也很难逃避的现实。大自然充满了竞争，如果你不去争斗，就无法生存、无法生活，最终只能迎来死亡。这对当今所有生命都是如此，人类也不例外。因此，放弃物理力量，然后试图行使政治权力是行不通的，这就是为什么所有关于平等和兄弟情的共产主义革命最终会落入一些暴力者手中的原因。

Because if you don't have a way to divide up the wealth based on merit, then it's always going to be based on power and influence. The thugs with the guns always win in the end. So the question is, just can you keep the thugs with the guns paid and happy and successful society where you're allocating based on merit? Because if you can't, then you're going to do it based on power. So I do think that this battle is not over, but that's because it never stopped. It's always been there from day one, it will continue.

因为如果你没有办法根据功绩来分配财富，那么最终就总是会根据权力和影响力来分配。持枪暴徒总是能最终获胜。所以问题是，你能否在一个根据功绩分配资源的成功社会中，让持枪的暴徒感到满意并得到报酬？因为如果不能做到这一点，你就只能依靠权力来进行分配。所以我认为，这场斗争还没有结束，只是因为它从未停止过。从一开始就存在的问题将会继续存在下去。

Is it a battle to not care about the news in an age of news, saturation, all of this stuff, headlines, 24 hours a day, stream directly into your consciousness through a device in your pocket? You know, a lot of what we've spoken about today is freedom, freedom from having to think about things or care about things that you do not have control over or that you shouldn't or that you don't want to. And yet people are just submerged up to the bottom of their nostrils, basically drowning in worry.

在这个新闻泛滥的时代，不在乎新闻是一场艰难的斗争吗？各种新闻、头条，24小时不间断地通过你口袋里的设备直接进入你的意识。我们今天讨论的很多内容都与自由有关，自由意味着不必去思考或关心那些你无法控制、不该关注或者不想关注的事情。然而，人们却几乎处在忧虑的淹没中，无法自拔。

So how, is it a battle to sort of stay out of the news when you're saturated in it? Yeah, I mean, as you're saying, the human brain is not evolved to handle all the world's emergencies, breaking it real time. And you can't care about everything. And you'll go insane if you try. Does it mean you shouldn't care at all? There's no should. I mean, if you want to care, go ahead and care. I would just say that you're probably better off only caring about things that are local or things that you can affect.

所以，如何才能摆脱新闻的影响，而不是被其淹没呢？是的，就像你说的那样，人类的大脑并没有进化到可以处理全球的突发事件，而且是实时发生的。你无法关注每件事，如果你尝试去关注，你可能会发疯。这是否意味着你不应该在意任何事呢？其实没有绝对的“应该”或“不应该”。如果你想关心，就去关心吧。我只想说，你可能更好的是只关注那些与你本地有关或者你有能力影响的事情。

So if you really care about something that's in the news, then by all means care about it, but make a difference. Go do something about it. And make sure that it's your overwhelming desire and you don't have five other desires at the same time. Also just really have the consequences of it. You're going to be unhappy until that thing gets fixed and that thing will often be out of your control. I don't know. I don't. Desire is a contract to be unhappy until you get what you want.

所以，如果你真的关心一些新闻中的事情，那就全心去关心，并且去做出一些改变。行动起来吧！并确保这是你至关重要的愿望，不要同时有其他五个愿望。此外，要真正理解其后果：在这件事得到解决之前，你可能会不快乐，而这件事通常又不在你的控制范围内。我不知道。我不知道。渴望是一种契约，在得到你想要的东西之前，它会使你不快乐。

But exactly. For the most part, that's something that is in your life. It's like until I lose the weight until I get the job. In the outside too. But yeah, if it's until the carbon dioxide parts per million are below this particular number, it's like, that's a tough one. Or all the people that trumped a range of incentive home, right? He's living rent-free in their heads and driving them insane. And I get it. I mean, there are politicians who have definitely driven me insane as well. But it comes at a very high cost.

确切地说，这种情况大多存在于你的生活中。就像是直到我减掉体重，或者直到我找到工作。在外界也是这样。不过，如果我们说要等到二氧化碳浓度降到某个特定数字以下，那就很难了。还有那些因为政客而精神崩溃的人，他们让某个政客在他们脑海中“免费居住”，把他们逼疯。我能理解，因为也有一些政客曾让我抓狂过。但这样做的代价非常高昂。

It's something that is out of your control that you cannot really influence. So it's probably good to at least be conscious of it. You mentioned historians before. One of my friends has a question. His equivalent of Peter Till's question of what is it that you believe that most people would disagree with. His is what do you think is currently ignored by the media but will be studied by historians? You're asking me that question right now. What do I think is ignored by the media but will be studied by historians?

这是一件超出你掌控范围的事情，你无法真正影响。所以至少要对它有意识，这可能是好的。你提到了历史学家。我的一个朋友有个问题，这个问题与彼得·蒂尔的问题“你相信什么大多数人会不同意”类似。他的问题是，你认为目前被媒体忽略但将来会被历史学家研究的是什么？你现在正在问我这个问题。我认为目前被媒体忽略但将来会被历史学家研究的是什么呢？

Well, I mean, the media is only focused on very timely things. Right? So it depends if you want to talk about timely or timeless. Right? But as a simple example, if I just look at things that maybe the next five or 10 years that are going to make a massive difference that people are not focused enough on. And I think within two years this will be obvious. Then I make a prediction. Predictions are tough. But you're going to have to eat it. And a few goes to eat this in a few years.

嗯，我的意思是，媒体通常只关注一些时效性很强的事情，对吧？所以这取决于你想讨论的是时效性强的还是永恒性的事情。举个简单的例子，如果我考虑未来五到十年间可能产生巨大影响但人们还没关注足够的事情。我认为在两年内这些会变得明显。所以我做个预测。预测是很困难的。但你得接受它。几年后，这些预测中的一些可能会成为现实，你就不得不面对了。

So I'm probably wrong. But two things that I pay attention to that I don't think a lot of people do pay attention to. Well, there's a couple. One is I think just how bad modern medicine is. I think people just put a lot more faith in modern medicine than is warranted. Like our best ideas for a lot of things are surgery just cutting things out. Treating things that are extraneous. Like, oh, you don't really need a gall bladder. You don't really need an appendix. You don't really need tonsils. Oh, that's false. So plus recline. Human body is very, very efficient. All those things are needed. So I think the state of modern medicine is sort of pretty bad. We don't have many good explanatory theories and biology. We have germ theory disease. We have evolution. We have cell theory. We have DNA genetics. Morphogenesis, embryogenesis, and not much else. You know, there's not much else.

所以我可能是错的。但是有两件事情我注意到了，而我认为很多人并没有注意到。首先，我觉得现代医学的状况其实挺糟糕的。我认为人们对现代医学的信任度过高了，而这种信任并不完全有理。譬如，我们对很多问题的最佳解决方案就是通过手术切除。处理那些被认为多余的东西，比如说：“哦，你其实不需要胆囊，不需要阑尾，不需要扁桃体。”但这是错误的。人类身体其实非常高效，这些器官都是有必要的。因此，我认为现代医学的状态相当不理想。我们在生物学方面并没有太多好的解释性理论。我们有病菌学说，有进化论，有细胞理论，有DNA遗传学，还有形态发生和胚胎发生，但除此之外就不多了。

Everything else is rules of thumb, memorization. AFXB because effects CFXD, but we don't understand the underlying explanation. It's all just words point to words point to words. So biology is still in a very sorry state. And because we are not allowed to take risk that might kill people, we just don't experiment enough in biology. So a lot of treatments are just outright banned by large, very good treat bodies. So we just don't have the innovation. So I think we're still in the stone age when it comes to biology. And we got a long ways to go. And I think people will look back a gas at this. And I think this is Brian Johnson's point. He's like, you know, let's be more extreme. Let's try to live forever.

其他的都是一些经验法则和记忆背诵。比如说，AFXB因为影响了CFXD，但我们并不理解其背后的原因。这些都只是文字指向文字，再指向文字。因此，生物学仍然处于一个非常不成熟的状态。因为我们无法承担可能导致人员伤亡的风险，所以在生物学领域，我们进行的实验还远远不够。因此，很多治疗方法仅仅因为严格的规定就被直接禁止了，使得我们缺乏创新力。我认为，在生物学方面，我们仍然处于石器时代，还有很长的路要走。我相信将来人们会对此感到震惊。我觉得这是Brian Johnson想表达的观点。他觉得我们应该更极端一些，尝试追求永生。

Experimental. It must be more experimental. And I'll start as end of one. I'll start experimenting on myself. But even there, I disagree with Brian in many things, like, you know, taking huge amounts of supplements. I think we just don't know. It supplements outside of the natural context. Like just eat liver man. But it's fine. And that wouldn't be vegan either. But it's, I really appreciate that he's experimenting. He's good nature to about. He shares everything. So we need more people like that. So I think the state of biology people will look back and say, wow, that was in the dark ages. I think another thing that we'll look back on is I think we we still continue to underestimate how important drones are going to be in warfare. The future of all warfare is drones. There will be nothing else in the battlefield.

实验性的。必须更具实验性。我会从一个结束开始，从自身做实验。不过即便在这方面，我和布莱恩在很多事情上看法不一致，比如说大量服用补充剂。我觉得我们对在自然背景之外使用补充剂了解得不够，比如，直接吃动物肝脏就好。不过这样也不符合素食主义者的标准。但我很欣赏他在这方面的尝试，他乐于分享一切。我们需要更多这样的人。我认为将来生物学的发展会让人们回顾现在，并觉得这是一个黑暗时代。还有一件事，我们可能会回头感叹低估了无人机在战争中的重要性。未来所有的战争都将由无人机主导，战场上不会有其他东西。

Because I think of the end state of drones as autonomous bullets, not even guided autonomous, like they're self-directed. And so if that's the future, we're headed towards. And that's it. What would you have an unfold? There's going to be no aircraft carriers. There's going to be no tanks. There's going to be no infantry men. There's just going to be autonomous bullets. By autonomous bullets against your autonomous bullets, whichever one's a wind, the other side just surrenders because over. I think that's the second piece of it. I think a third piece that is going to be kind of unexpected is the GLP ones, which I know you and I have probably discussed before. I think these are the most breakthrough drugs since antibiotics. They're probably more important than statins.

因为我认为无人机的终极形态就是自主子弹，甚至不需要引导，它们是自我导向的。如果这是我们未来的方向，那么所有的一切都会改变。将不会再有航空母舰、坦克或步兵，只有自主子弹。由你的自主子弹对抗对方的自主子弹，哪个胜出，另一方就投降。我认为这是其中的第二部分。我想第三个会有点意想不到的方面是GLP-1类药物，我知道你和我可能以前讨论过这些。我认为这些药物是自抗生素以来最突破性的药物，可能比他汀类药物更重要。

They're sort of miracle drugs. They seem to, they're are down sides, but the downside and side effects are so minor compared to the upsides beyond just weight loss. They also seem to be addiction breakers. They seem to lower many kinds of cancer. They're almost metabolically reverse aging up to a certain point. And I think they're going to bend the curve on healthcare costs. And the big question people are going to be asking over the next five years is, why are Americans paying thousands of dollars on one for this when people overseas are getting them for free or I can order them from China for free or whatever. And maybe it like if I were Bernie Sanders, the platform I would be running on is I would say, okay, we're going to pay for those. You know, hundreds of billions of dollars did Novo and Eli Lilly and we're just going to make these free or there's hundreds of analogs of these things that were these are not going to be limited to just the few that are that are being used today.

这些药物有点像奇迹药物。虽然它们有一些缺点和副作用，但相比其带来的益处，如减肥等，缺点和副作用显得微不足道。它们似乎还可以帮助戒除成瘾，降低多种癌症风险，几乎能在代谢上逆转衰老到某种程度。我认为它们可能会改变医疗成本的走向。在接下来的五年里，人们会问的一个大问题是，为什么美国人要花费数千美元买这种药物，而其他国家的人却能免费获得，或者可以从中国免费订购。如果我是伯尼·桑德斯，我会提出一个竞选纲领：我们将为这些药物买单。面对诺和诺德和礼来公司，我们将投入数千亿美元，让这些药物免费，或者开发数百种类似药物，而不仅仅限于今天使用的少数几种。

Just take one of them or two of them making free. I think it'll make a big difference. And as you and I were discussing earlier, this does bend a lot of people out of shape who got through the old-fashioned way and they want to see obesity as a moral failing on people's parts and it lowers their status. If they are certainly in the long run. The signal is the last of a signal. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so they're incentive to say, oh, well, you don't know the downsides. You know, it's irresponsible to suggest this going to cause cancer, have fun losing bone and muscle mass. But in none of that stuff is really true. The cancer stuff is actually beneficial on I know people who are now taking these things for anti-aging reasons. They're already fit, but they just want to age better and have a stronger insulin metabolism. And there's evidence not these things are, you know, they put off dementia, Alzheimer's, colon cancer. It's insane cardiovascular disease. Like the list of benefits is insane.

只需选择其中一个或两个免费试用。我认为这会带来很大改变。正如你我之前讨论过的，这确实会惹恼一些通过传统方式减重的人，他们往往把肥胖看作是他人的道德失败，认为这样会降低他们的地位，尤其从长远来看。这种信号已经不再存在。然而，他们有理由说：“哦，你不知道这些方法的缺点。”他们认为建议这种方法是不负责任的，会引发癌症，导致骨骼和肌肉质量下降。但实际上，这些说法并不真实。关于癌症的部分实际上还有好处。我认识的人现在开始服用这些东西以达到抗衰老的目的。他们本身已经很健康，只是想更好地衰老并拥有更强大的胰岛素代谢。而有证据表明，这些东西还能预防痴呆、阿尔茨海默病、大肠癌等等。心血管疾病的好处也非常多，真是不可思议。

There's no free lunch. But this is a class of drugs that prevents you from taking other drugs into your body. It prevents you from taking too much sugar, too many calories and an ear of abundance. It prevents you from smoking, it prevents you from even there's an organization called Casper that is not doing a study on heroin addictions. And they're showing that it's going to lower opioid overdoses and heroin addiction. So there's a lot of overwhelming medical evidence coming out. And I think I don't know the exact number, but I think something like 10% of the population might not have tried these things. I think that's the number that it's had as well. Yeah, it's massive. So I think it's about 50% of the population say that they would like to try it. Exactly. So I think the body positivity movement is dead. And we always kind of knew it was a scat. I mean, it's dying very, very quickly.

天下没有免费的午餐。但这一类药物能帮助你避免摄入其他药物。它能防止你摄入过多的糖分、过多的卡路里，以及过度的食物。它能让你不抽烟，甚至有个叫Casper的组织正在研究这类药物对海洛因成瘾的影响，他们发现这类药物能够减少阿片类药物的过量使用和海洛因成瘾。现在有很多压倒性的医学证据支持这个观点。我不知道确切的数字，但我认为可能有大约10%的人还没有尝试过这些东西。也许就是这个数字，对，这个比例很大。我认为差不多有50%的人表示他们愿意尝试。所以，我认为"身体积极性"运动已经过时，而我们也一直认为这是一种策略，而且这个趋势衰退得非常快。

I equipped like you can never be too rich, too thin or too clean. Right. And immediately like a whole bunch of people went, not only to my mention, like what do you mean, too thin and what about the hygiene hypothesis? And obviously there's always exceptions, but people want to be thin and fit. And people want to be clean back to the pathogen discussion that we had. So I think overall that there's going to be huge demand for these things. And our modern medical system is not built to supply these well. I'm not, I don't hold it against the farmers. I think the farmers did their job by creating the thing. But I think next we need to step up and figure out how to make it broadly and cheaply available. As opposed to just milk it for only for people on obesity, you can get Medicare to sign off for it. People are paying out of pocket at a very, very high prices.

我装备自己，好比一句名言：“你永远不会太富有、太瘦或太干净。”对吧。然后立刻就有一大群人反对，不仅仅是因为我提到了这个，还质疑什么叫“太瘦”以及卫生假说。显然，总会有例外，但大家都希望自己苗条而健康，也希望保持清洁，这是我们之前讨论病原体时提到的。我认为，总体而言，这些方面会有巨大的需求，而我们的现代医疗系统并未做好充分的准备来满足这些需求。我不怪农民，因为他们通过创造这些东西完成了他们的工作。但我认为，接下来我们需要努力解决如何让这些事物更广泛且廉价地被大家获取，而不仅仅是通过让医保支付，以高昂的价格仅供肥胖症患者使用。

Yeah. The benefits of societal distribution of the safer GLP ones is so large that whichever politicians are tackles that is going to be richly rewarded. Well, obesity is the number one source of malnutrition worldwide. There's twice as many people that are obese than a starving. So about half a billion people are starving and seeing people are doing. And seeing people are doing. The problems are downstream of that. Like, you know, look at how much of the federal budget goes in dialysis because of kidney failure. And why is that? Because diabetes. Right. So so many of the problems that we have in Marlton's side are downstream of obesity. And you know, this like fitness is so important. And yes, there's in some people, these things call mus- cause muscle and bone loss. But not in the people who eating high protein and working out hard.

是的，推广更安全的GLP产品带来的社会福利非常巨大，任何能解决这个问题的政治人物都将获得丰厚的回报。肥胖是全球营养不良的首要原因。肥胖人数是饥饿人数的两倍，大约有五亿人正在挨饿。很多问题都是由肥胖引起的。例如，由于糖尿病，导致肾衰竭，从而增加了联邦预算中的透析费用。而肥胖是导致这些问题的根源之一。健康和健身的重要性不可忽视。有些人可能会因为这些问题而导致肌肉和骨骼流失，但这通常不发生在那些高蛋白饮食并进行高强度锻炼的人身上。

So they can be taken away that's safer. And some versions of these like Lira Glutide, the original one, they've been around for decades. And the others have been around for about a decade. And we already have, as you said, 10% of the population taking them. So they're already quite widely distributed. It's a good sample size. Yeah, it's a great sample size. What more do you need? Like if you, if you have a bacterial infection that's eating you, I don't say, oh, I have this antibiotic, but it's going to raise your blood pressure. It's like, no, take the antibiotic. If you're going to kill yourself, I say, take this anti-psychotic and stay alive a little longer and solve it. I don't say, oh, it's going to cause your heart rate to go up by three beats a minute. I don't worry about that.

所以可以把它们拿走，这样更安全。一些药物，比如最早的利拉鲁肽，已经存在几十年了，还有其他的一些也已经有大概十年的使用历史。正如你所说，我们已经有10%的人口在使用这些药物，它们的使用已经相当广泛了。这就是一个很好的样本量，足够大了。你还需要什么呢？比如说，如果你有一种细菌感染正在侵蚀你的身体，我不会说“哦，我有抗生素，但它会让你的血压升高。”而是说：赶紧用抗生素。如果你有自残倾向，我会说：用这个抗精神病药物，多活一段时间，解决问题。我不会担心它会让你的心率每分钟增加三下。

So similarly, if you're poisoning yourself with toxins and overuse of substances that you shouldn't be using, either heroin, alcohol, cigarettes, sugar, or just sheer calories, take this GLP1. They also improve digestion. You just have less calories, less food matter going through your stomach. The lower cancer risks across the board, there's quite a few cancers that lower. Cardiovascular, I mean, I don't know what else to tell you. I've been very surprised by the negative reception. Whenever you have a conversation about GLP1s, and I think a lot of it may be people who think about how many sacred cows are being gored. All the people who are basically saying, you should work harder, you should be fit like I did. It's lowering their status. Think about all the nutritionists and doctors and trainers who are now being, it's too easy. They're being put out of business in a way.

同样地，如果你摄入毒素或过量使用像海洛因、酒精、香烟、糖或单纯过多热量这样的物质，就可以尝试使用GLP1。它们可以改善消化，让你摄入更少的热量和食物。总体上，它们还降低了多种癌症的风险，以及心血管疾病的风险。我对GLP1遇到的负面反应感到非常惊讶。每当人们谈论GLP1，很多反对可能是因为它挑战了一些习以为常的观念。许多人常常说，你应该像我一样努力健身，这种态度正在受到冲击。对于一些营养师、医生和健身教练来说，这一方法实在太过简单，甚至影响到他们的职业，因为人们不再需要他们一样多了。

It's kind of like, what is the American military keep buying aircraft carriers? In the age of drones, there's an incentive bias. There's a very strong motivated reasoning. But it doesn't matter. 10% people are on it. Everybody wants to be fit. It's going to spread like wildfire. I was just thinking as you were talking that, when we think about health, and a lot of people get captured by the way that they were brought up, the habits that they had from their childhood, or what mom and dad did, or genetic predisposition and stuff like that, I think you have, as many reasons, as many people sort of feel hard done by by challenges that you had earlier on in your life, is getting past your past a skill, not being owned today by your history, sort of not having that victimhood mentality.

这有点像，美国军方为什么还在不停地购买航空母舰？在无人机的时代，这是一种带有偏见的驱动力，有着非常强的动机推理。但这并不重要，10%的人已经在行动了。每个人都想保持健康，这种趋势会像野火一样迅速蔓延。当你在谈论的时候，我就在想，当我们考虑健康时，很多人会受到他们成长方式的影响，比如他们从小养成的习惯、父母的行为或遗传倾向等。我觉得，每个人都有理由感到自己受到了过去生活挑战的影响，要超越过去是一种技能，不被历史支配，就是不持有受害者心态。

Yeah, I did have a tough childhood, but I don't think about it. I think there are a couple of things going on there. One is, I did process it quite a bit. I thought about it, but I thought about it to get rid of it. I didn't think about it to dwell on it. It don't. Yeah, I wanted to be successful. I wanted more than anything else to rise past that. I couldn't have that as a burden on me. I had to get rid of it. To the extent that I dealt with it, it was for the express purpose of getting rid of it, not to create an identity or story or to reflect upon it, or to say, look at me, look at what I've accomplished, and look how great I am and what I've done. I got rid of it.

是的，我的童年确实很艰难，但我不再去想它了。我觉得这里有几个原因。首先，我确实处理过童年困难。我想过它，但我是为了摆脱它而去想，而不是为了沉溺于回忆。我不纠结这些。是的，我想要成功，我特别渴望能够超越过去。我不能让过去成为我的负担，我必须放下它。因此，我处理这些事情的目的就是为了摆脱它，而不是为了创造某种身份或者故事，也不是为了反思、展示自己说“看我多厉害，看我取得了什么成就”。我只是放下了它。

I think at some point, you wrestle with that thing, and you just realized you're never going to untangle the whole thing. It's a Gordian knot problem. Like Alexander found that tangled knot in India, and it said, oh, the famous conqueror will come and will untie this knot. Nobody else can untie the knot. He took one look at it, pull that assortment, just cut it. So at some point, you just have to cut your past. If your past is bothering you, you will eventually get tired of trying to untangle that knot, and you will just drop it, because you will realize life is short. And the more you want to accomplish in this life, actually, the less time you have to unravel that thing.

我觉得在某个时刻，你会努力去解决那个问题，但最后你会意识到自己永远无法解开那团乱麻。这就像亚历山大的戈尔迪之结问题。传说中，亚历山大在印度发现了那个复杂的结，据说只有著名的征服者才能解开它。别人都无法解开这个结，他看了一眼，拉扯了一下，然后直接砍断了它。所以有时候，你必须割舍过去。如果你的过去一直困扰着你，你最终会厌倦尝试去解开那个结，因为你会发现人生短暂。在这一生中你想实现的越多，你就越没有时间去解开那个结。

So I just wanted to actually get things done. So I had no time to deal with it. So I just cut it. It's like a really bad relationship. But in this case, it's a bad relationship with your own history. So you just drop it. Yeah, I think so much of what we've spoken about today is on the shortness of life, and the fact that every moment is precious. You have to take about the most fundamental resource in your life is not time, it's attention. That's right. I used to think the currency of life, right? People think it's money, and yes, money is important. And it does let you trade certain things for time, but it doesn't really buy your time. As Warren Buffett, how much time money can buy you or Michael Bloomberg. They're, you know, rich as Scrooge and and crisis, but they can't buy more time, right?

所以我只是想真正地完成事情，因此没有时间去处理它，所以我就直接放弃了。这就像一段很糟糕的关系，只不过在这种情况下，这是你和自己过去的糟糕关系，所以你就放手了。是的，我认为我们今天讨论的很大一部分内容都在于生命的短暂，以及每一刻都很珍贵。你必须明白，生活中最根本的资源不是时间，而是注意力。没错，我以前以为生活的货币是金钱，人们都觉得钱很重要，没错，钱确实能让你以某种方式换取时间，但它并不能真正买到你的时间。你可以问问沃伦·巴菲特或迈克尔·布隆伯格，他们富可敌国，但也买不了更多时间，不是吗？

Brian Johnson, notwithstanding. So you can't trade money for time. Money is not the real currency of life. And time itself doesn't even mean that much, because as we talked about before, a lot of time can be wasted, because you're not really present for it. You're not paying attention. So the real currency of life is attention. It's what you choose to pay attention to, and what you do about it. And so back to the point about the news media, you can put your attention on the news, but that's how you're spending the real currency of life. So just be aware of that. If you want to, that's fine. There's no right or wrong here.

布莱恩·约翰逊（Brian Johnson），尽管如此。所以你不能用金钱换取时间。金钱并不是生活的真正货币。即便是时间本身也不算什么，因为如我们之前所谈论的，很多时间可能会被浪费掉，因为你并没有真正地活在当下，你没有集中注意力。所以，生活的真正货币是注意力。关键在于你选择关注什么，以及你因此做了些什么。回到关于新闻媒体的话题，你可以把注意力放在新闻上，但那就是你在花费生活的真正货币。对此要有意识。如果你愿意这样做，那也没问题。这里没有对错之分。

Like maybe it is your destiny to pick something in the news, learn about that problem. Adopt that problem and solve it. But just be careful, because your attention is the only thing that you have. And that can also be captured by your own past. Yes, you can fit it away on anything you'd like. Is there an advantage to starting out as a loser? Absolutely. Yeah. Because if you're a loser, then you'll want to be a winner, and then you'll develop all the characteristics that'll help you be a, you know, quote-unquote winner in life. That said, I wouldn't sentence my kids to it. Like, I don't think you can artificially do that. You know, it's sort of like imagine that you were, you know, 300 years ago, you're born a surf. And then somehow you managed to escape off the farm and you become a landowner, and then eventually you become a minor in the ability to aristocrat.

也许你的命运就是从新闻中选择一个问题，深入了解这个问题后，接纳它并解决它。但要小心，因为注意力是你唯一拥有的东西，它也可能被你自己的过去所影响。是的，你可以将注意力投入到任何你想投入的事情上。如果一开始是个失败者有优势吗？绝对有。因为如果你是个失败者，你就会想成为一个成功者，然后你会培养出所有有助于你在生活中成为所谓“成功者”的特征。话虽如此，我不会让我的孩子经历这种挫折。我不认为你可以人为地创造这种境况。这就像你想象自己是300年前的农奴，然后设法逃离农场成为地主，最终甚至成为小贵族。

You're going to put your kids back on the farm and say, you're going to be a surf again. I know they all like those stories. They're the kids themselves like those stories, because it says, I came from the school of hard and ox, my dad made me go shovel hay for a summer. It's not real. I mean, you're not going to trick them. I think what you can, all you can do is kind of cultivate and appreciate a gratitude for what you have. And the only way to do that is just evidence at yourself, right? Just show yourself how you spend money, how you respect it, what you do with it, how you take care of people, who you're responsible for. And the more resources you have, the greater the tribe you can take care of, the more of the tribe you can take care of. So when you have no resources, you're struggling to take care of yourself. And at that point, it's good to be selfish, because you can't save somebody else if you can't even save yourself.

你要把孩子们送回农场，然后告诉他们：你们将再次成为农奴。我知道他们都喜欢这些故事。孩子们自己也喜欢这些故事，因为他们认为这些故事说明了：“我来自艰苦的学校，我爸爸让我整个夏天去铲干草。”但这不是真实的。我是说，你不可能这样骗到他们。我认为你唯一能做的就是培养和欣赏对现有生活的感激之情。而做到这一点的唯一方法，就是为自己做出表率。通过展示你如何花钱，你对金钱的态度，你如何处理金钱，以及你如何照顾你负责的人。你拥有的资源越多，你能够照顾的人也就越多。当你没有资源时，你连自己都难以照顾。这个时候，自私一些其实是好的，因为如果你连自己都照顾不好，就更不可能拯救别人。

Yes. So you take care of yourself and you become the best version of yourself. But there are too many men who are able, fit and have some money, who are doing nothing with their lives. So you're just sitting at home doing nothing, just indulging in themselves, maybe they go on dates and they get door to ash. Like I have no respect for that. I think there's nothing worse in society than a lazy man, because he's sort of, he's sort of leaving it all on the table. He's leaving his potential on the table. It's bad for him. So the next thing you do is you go and you have a family, and you take care of your family, take care of that tribe, then you take care of your extended family, take care of your cousins, brothers, uncles, grandmothers, aunts, sisters, everybody that you can.

是的，所以你要照顾好自己，成为最好的自己。但有太多有能力、健康且有一些经济基础的男人，并没有在生活中有所作为。他们只是呆在家里无所事事，只是沉溺于自我享乐，也许他们约会，还点外卖。我对此毫无尊重。我觉得社会上最糟糕的事情莫过于一个懒惰的男人，因为他就像把一切潜力都浪费掉了，这对他自己没好处。接下来，你要去组建家庭，照顾你的家人，关心这个小团体，然后再去照顾你的大家庭，包括你的表亲、兄弟、叔叔、奶奶、姑姑、姐妹，尽可能关心所有人。

And then if you have more resources beyond that, then you go take care of your local tribe, you take care of your people. You start trying to do some good for the world. And if you have more resources than that, you go take care of a new and bigger tribe. And that's how you earn both respect and self-confidence, and you live up to your potential. So the more you have, the more is rightfully expected of you. And I think it's a good compact with society when highly capable of people express and flex that capability by giving more and more and by doing more and more. And society rewards them with the one thing they can't get, otherwise it's a status. Right? Society should give you status in exchange for it. They should say, okay, you did a good job. You took care of more people than just yourself and just the people immediately around you.

然后，如果你有更多的资源，那么你就去照顾你的本地社区，关心你周围的人。尝试为这个世界做好事。如果你拥有的资源还更多，那么就去照顾一个更大、更广泛的群体。这样做，你既能赢得尊重，又能建立自信，并且充分发挥自己的潜力。所以，你拥有越多，理应承担的责任也就越大。我认为这是一个与社会的良好契约，当有能力的人通过给予和行动来展现他们的能力时，社会给予他们的回报就是他们可能无法自行获得的——地位。社会应该因此给予你地位，认可你所做的工作，你不仅仅照顾到自己和你身边的人，而且惠及到更多的人。

And that's what an alpha male, to me, is. An alpha male is not the one who gets to eat first. The alpha male eats last. The alpha male feeds everybody else first and then gets to eat last. And they do that out of their own self-respect and pride. And the society rewards them by calling them an alpha and giving them status. I wonder whether some of the pushback that we've got against Rich, wealthy, powerful people is disincentibizing. It is. Who is it, Zach? Who donated money to Zuckerberg Generals, Hospital, and they weren't able to pull his name off of it? I mean, that's the identity of that. But that's really good. That kind of stuff backfires, right? You should reward people for doing what you say before. You don't just need to, in fact, actually, actively avoid castigating people if you want the behavior to change when they get something wrong.

在我看来，这就是一个“领头男”的定义。一个真正的领头男并不是第一个吃饭的人，而是最后一个吃的。领头男会先让其他人吃饱，然后才轮到自己。他们这样做是出于自尊和自豪，而社会则通过称呼他们为“领头者”并给予他们地位来回报他们。我想知道，我们对富有、强大的人士的抵制是否在起反作用。我认为这种情况确实存在。比如有个人（是扎克吗？）向扎克伯格将军医院捐款，却没能把他的名字从捐赠者名单上移除。这种情况实际上是有好的意图但适得其反。我们应该奖赏那些遵循这种理念的人，而不是只批评他们。在需要改变他们行为时，不应该一味地指责他们，而是要促进积极的改变。

Like reinforcing it when they get something right. Correct. It's happening at a societal level as well. Correct. I mean, like the guys will make a lot of money and go out and buy sports teams. I wouldn't do that. But the one who goes out and builds a hospital or builds a rocket to take people to the moon, you know, rescue some astronauts, you should be rewarding him for that. Mm-hmm.

翻译成中文：像是在他们做对事情时给予鼓励，对吧。这种情况在社会层面也在发生。是的。我的意思是，那些赚很多钱的人会去购买体育球队。我不会那样做。但是，那些去建医院或者造火箭送人去月球、拯救宇航员的人，你应该为他们的行为给予奖励。嗯嗯。

Navar, I really appreciate you. I hope that this is lift up to whatever weird daydreams you've been having. What have you got coming up? What can people expect from you over the next, however long? Expect nothing. That's the most Navar way that we could have finished this. Dude, it's been a long time coming. I really do appreciate you for being here today.

Navar，我真的很感谢你。我希望这能提升你最近那些奇怪的白日梦。你接下来有什么计划吗？人们可以期待你在未来会做些什么吗？其实什么都别期待，这才是最符合Navar风格的结束方式。兄弟，这真的期待已久。非常感谢你今天能来。

But I do hope to deliver something. Oh, I think you have. So, thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank you, too. Thanks for getting in my mind and hopefully now you're out. We'll see. I'm maybe even worse now. You've got the real memories to stick. I don't know.

但我确实希望传达一些东西。哦，我认为你已经做到了。所以，谢谢你。感谢你邀请我。我也谢谢你。感谢你走进我的思维，希望现在你已经走出来了。我们拭目以待吧。我现在可能变得更糟，因为你让那些真实的记忆留下来了。我也不确定。

The reason to win the game is to be free of it. The reason to do the podcast is to be done with it. All right. Wow. You made it to the end. Congratulations.

赢得比赛的原因是为了摆脱比赛。做播客的原因是为了完成它。好吧，哇，你坚持到了最后。恭喜你。

Well, if you enjoyed that, you're going to love my full-length conversation with the one and only Alander Botan from the School of Life right here. Go on. Press it.

好啦，如果你喜欢这个，你一定会喜欢我与生活学院的唯一阿兰德·博坦的一次完整对话，就在这里。去吧，按下播放键。