Joe Rogan Experience #2255 - Mark Zuckerberg

Paragraph 1: the Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day good to see you too what's going on you know chill week yeah sorry this uh... recent announcement that you did about content moderation how's that been received uh... probably depends on who you ask right but you know but look i mean i've been working on this for a long time so when you gotta do you think is is right you know we we've been along along journey here right and then some i think it's some level you you start you only start one of these companies if you believe in giving people a voice right i mean the whole point of social media is basically you know giving people the ability to share what they want right and uh... and you know it goes back to your original mission is just give people a power to share and make the world more open connected

第1段：白天进行「乔·罗根体验」训练，晚上是乔·罗根的播客，一整天都这样。很高兴见到你，最近怎么样？哦，最近这周挺轻松。不过，你之前关于内容审核的宣布反响如何？可能取决于你问谁吧，但你知道，我在这方面已经努力了很长时间，所以当你认为某件事情是对的，你就得去做。我们一直走在这条路上。实际上，你创办一家这样的公司就是因为你相信要给人们发声的机会。整个社交媒体的意义就是给予人们分享他们所想的能力。追溯到你的初衷，就是要赋予人们分享的力量，让世界变得更开放、更紧密相连。

Paragraph 2: what do you think started the pathway towards increasing censorship because clearly we were going in that direction for the last few years it seemed like uh... we really found out about it when you want bought twitter we got the twitter files and when you came on here when you were explaining the relationship with fp i where they were trying to get you to take down certain things that were true and real and certain things they tried to get you to limit the exposure to them so it's these kind of conversations like when did all that start yeah well well look i think going back to the beginning like i was saying i think you start one of these if you care about about giving people a voice you know i didn't i wasn't too deep on our content policies for like the first ten years of the company it was just kind of well-known across the company that uh... we were trying to give people the ability to share as much as possible issues would come up practical issues right so if someone's getting bullied for example we deal with that we put in place systems to to fight bullying

翻译第二段： 你觉得是什么引发了日益增加的审查趋势呢？显然在过去几年我们朝这个方向发展。在你收购推特时，我们通过推特文件真正开始了解到这一点，还有你在这里解释与FBI的关系时，他们试图让你删除一些真实的内容，并限制某些内容的曝光。类似于这种对话，所有这些是从什么时候开始的呢？嗯，我想回到开始的时候，就像我说的，如果你关心让人们发声，你就会开启这些事情。在公司前十年，我对内容政策不是很深入的了解。公司普遍的共识是，我们在努力让人们尽可能多地分享信息。当然会出现一些实际问题，比如有人被欺凌，我们就会对此进行处理，建立系统来对抗欺凌行为。

Paragraph 3: uh... you know if someone is saying hey uh... you know someone's pirating copyrighted content on on the service it's like okay we'll build controls to make it so we'll find i'd be protected content but it was really in the last ten years that people started pushing for like ideological base censorship and i think it was two main events that really triggered this in twenty sixteen there is the election of president trump also coincided with uh... basically brexit in the e-u and inserted the fragmentation of the e-u and then you know in twenty twenty how there's covid and i think that those were basically these two events were for the first time uh... we just place it we just face this massive massive institutional pressure to uh... to basically start censoring content on ideological grounds and it's i'm sorry to review but when first came up in two thousand sixteen did it come under the guise of the russian collusion hoax yet and this is a thing i at the time i was really sort of ill-prepared to to kind of parts what was going on right it's um... you know i think part of my reflection looking back on this is i i kind of think in twenty sixteen in the aftermath i give too much deference to uh... a lot of folks in the media who were basically saying okay there's no way that this guy could have gotten elected except for misinformation people can actually believe this stuff right it has to be that there's this kind of like massive misinformation out there uh... some of it started with the the russia collusion stuff uh... but it kind of morphed into different things over time

段落 3： 呃……如果有人说，嘿，有人在这个平台上盗版受版权保护的内容，那我们可以建立一些控制措施来找到和保护这些内容。但实际上，真正推动内容意识形态审查的，是过去十年间的两大事件。2016年，美国选出特朗普为总统，同时英国脱欧也加速了欧盟的分裂。然后到了2020年，新冠疫情也爆发了。我认为这两个事件首次带来了巨大的机构压力，迫使大家开始基于意识形态去审查内容。抱歉，我要回顾一下，2016年首次发生的时候，它是以“俄罗斯勾结骗局”的名义出现的吗？当时我对这种事情的来龙去脉有些准备不足。在反思这段经历时，我觉得当年我给予媒体的很多人太多信赖了，因为他们基本上在说“这个人不可能当选，除非有虚假信息传播，人们怎么可能真的相信这些信息？”一定是因为存在大量虚假信息的问题。部分是从俄罗斯勾结的事情开始的，但随着时间的推移，它演变成了不同的事情。

Paragraph 1: well so it was he was so ideologically polarizing right like people didn't want to believe that anybody looked at him and said this should be our president yes so so i took this in and just kind of assume that everyone was acting in good faith and said okay well there's like their concerns about misinformation we should just like when people raised other concerns in the past and we try to deal with them okay yeah people people you know if you ask people no one says that they want misinformation so maybe there's something that we should do to to basically try to address this i was really worried from the beginning about basically becoming this sort of decider of what is true in the world or that's a kind of a crazy position to be in for billions of people using your service and so we tried to put in place a certain you know a system that would deal with it uh... you know an early on tried to basically make it so that uh... it was really limited we're like all right we're just gonna have the system with these third party fact checkers and they can check the worst of the worst stuff right so uh... things that are very clear hoaxes that there's like it's not like like we're not parsing speech about whether something is slightly true or slightly false like earth is flat you know things like that right it's a so that was sort of the original intent we put in place the system and it just sort of veered from there i think to some degree it's because some of the people whose job is to do fact checking a lot of their industry is focused on political fact checking so they're just kind of here in that direction we kept on trying to to basically get it to be what we originally intended was just you know it's not the point is into like judge people's opinions it's to to provide in this layer to to to kind of help fact check some of the stuff that seems the most extreme but um... it just you know it was it was just never accepted by by people broadly i think people just felt like the fact checkers were too biased mm-hmm not necessarily even so much and what they ruled although sometimes i think people would disagree with that a lot of the time it was just what types of things they chose to even go in fact check in the first time in the first place

第一段: 嗯，他在意识形态上极具争议性。就像，人们不想相信有人会看着他说，这应该是我们的总统。所以，我就想着，大伙儿都是出于好意，于是想，好吧，他们是对错误信息存在担忧，就像过去人们提出的其他问题一样，我们应该试着去解决。对啊，你问人们，没有人会说他们想要错误信息，所以也许我们确实应该做点什么来解决这个问题。 从一开始，我就特别担心成为世界真相的决定者，因为有数以亿计的人使用我们的服务，这样的位置确实有点疯狂。于是，我们试图引入一个系统来处理这个问题。最初，我们只想让这个系统非常有限，与第三方的事实核查人员合作，他们可以检查那些明显是骗局的内容，而不是分析一些小道理的真假，比如地球是平的这种明显谎言。 最初的意图是如此设立系统，但后来情况有所偏离。我认为可能是因为负责事实核查的很多人，他们的行业大量关注政治事实核查，所以他们就顺着这个方向走下去了。我们一直试图让它回到最初的意图，那就是它的重点不在于判断人们的观点，而是为那些看起来最极端的信息提供一个事实核查的帮助。只是，这始终未能被人们广泛接受。我认为，很多人觉得事实核查者过于偏颇。并不一定是说他们的结论有问题，尽管有时人们会不赞同，而是他们选定哪些内容加以核查的标准本身就很有争议。

Paragraph 1: so i i kind of think like after having gone through that whole exercise it um... i don't know it's something out of like you know nineteen eighty four one of these books or it's just like it really is a slippery slope and it just got to a point where it's just okay this is destroying so much trust especially in the united states to have this program um... i guess it was probably about a few years that i really started coming to the conclusion that we're gonna need to to change something about that um... covid was the other big one where that was that was also very tricky because in the beginning it was you know it it's like a legitimate public health crisis you know in the in the beginning and it's um... you know even people who are like the most ardent first amendment um... you know defenders that the the supreme court has this clear press and that's like all right you you can't yell fire in a crowded theater there are times when if there's an emergency um... your your ability to speak can temporarily be curtailed in order to get an emergency under control so i was sympathetic to that at the beginning of covid it seemed like okay you have this virus seems like it's killing a lot of people i don't know we didn't know at the time how dangerous it was going to be so at the beginning it kind of seem like okay we should give a little bit of deference to the government in the health authorities on how we should play this but when it went from you know two weeks to flatten the curve to um... you know in like in the beginning it was like okay there are enough masks masks aren't that important to them it's like oh no you have to wear a mask and you know that like everything was shifting around it's been very difficult to kind of follow and and this really hit the most extreme i'd say during it was during the Biden administration when they were trying to roll out um... the vaccine program and now i'm generally like pretty pro rolling out vaccines i think on balance the vaccines are more positive than negative i think that while they're trying to push that program they also tried to censor anyone who is basically arguing against it and they pushed us super hard um... to take down things that were honestly were true right i mean they basically pushed us and and said anything that uh... says that vaccines might have side effects you basically need to take down i was just like what we're not going to do that like what we're clearly not going to do that i mean that that that that that is kind of in our school is there who's telling you to take down things that it was it was talking about vaccine side effects it was people in the uh... in the Biden administration i think it was um... you know i wasn't involved in those conversations directly but i think it was how difficult is that to not be involved those conversations directly

段落 1： 经过这次经历，我觉得有点像《一九八四》这样的书里描绘的情景。一切都在滑向一个危险的境地，特别是在美国，这个项目已经损害了很多信任。我在几年前就意识到我们需要对此做出一些改变。新冠疫情是另一件复杂的事情，一开始，它显然是一个重大的公共卫生危机。即便是最坚定的第一修正案捍卫者也会承认，有些紧急情况下，比如警察或政府可以暂时限制言论自由来控制局势。起初我对此很同情，因为我们不知道这个病毒到底会多危险。我们当时觉得，应该给予政府和卫生部门一些信任，看看如何应对。然而，当防疫措施从“用两周来降低感染曲线”转变为政策频繁变化，比如起初说口罩不重要后来又说必须戴口罩，真的很难跟上。这种极端情况特别是在拜登政府试图推出疫苗计划时达到顶峰。尽管我一般支持疫苗，因为总体来说疫苗的好处大于坏处，但他们试图让大家不去质疑，并催促我们删除那些关于疫苗副作用的信息。我们被告知要删除这些信息，我觉得简直不可思议，认为我们绝对不会这样做。尽管我没有直接参与那些对话，但据我所知，来自拜登政府的一些人要求这样做。想不参与这些对话其实是挺难的。

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Paragraph 2: that's gotta be strange to write because you're running the company but there's clearly your moderating at scale that's beyond the imagination the number of human beings are moderating is fucking insane like what is well what's a face book what how many people use it on a daily basis to get about how many overall like how many people use it regularly it's a three point two billion people use one of our services every day yet it's a no it's a while it's a plan it gets you and it's and it's a almost half of earth on a monthly basis it is probably out but uh... just i want to i want to say that though for there's a lot of like hyper critical people that are conspiracy theorists and think that everybody's a part of some cabal to control them i want you to understand that whether it's youtube or all these and whatever place that you think is doing something that's awful it's good that you speak because this is how things get changed and this is how people find out that people are upset about content moderation and insensorship but moderating at scale is insane yeah it's insane yeah the what we were talking the other day about the number of videos that go up every hour on youtube and it's bananas it's bananas that's like to try to get a human being that is reasonable logic logical and objective that's going to analyze every video it's virtually impossible

这段话大概在讨论公司运行中大规模内容审核的奇特性。你在管理公司时，却遇到一个超乎想象的审核规模：参与审核的人数多得令人难以置信。比如，Facebook上到底有多少人在定期使用呢？每天有32亿人在使用我们的服务，几乎地球上一半的人每个月都会使用。这是一个很庞大的规模，对于那些对阴谋论持高度批判态度的人，认为所有平台都是为了控制他们的阴谋的一部分，我想让你明白，不管是YouTube，还是其他你认为有问题的平台，表达你的意见是好的，因为这可以推动改变，使人们意识到大家对内容审核和审查的不满。但在这么大的规模上进行审核是非常疯狂的。我们之前谈到YouTube上每小时都有无数视频上传，这实在太疯狂了。想要让一个理性客观的人去分析每个视频几乎是不可能的。

Paragraph 1: the pandemic and then you have the administration is doing something where i think they crossed the line where it gets really weird whether saying what you're saying they were trying to get you to take down vaccine side effects which is just crazy yeah so i mean it it like you're saying i mean it this is it's so complicated this system that i could spend every minute of all of my time doing this and not actually focused on building any of the things that we're trying to do ai glasses like the future of social media all that stuff so uh... so i i get involved in this stuff but in general we we have a policy team there are people i trust there the people are kind of working on the senate day-to-day basis and the interactions that uh... that was just referring to and a lot of this is documented i mean because uh... you know jim jordan in the house had this whole investigation and committee into into the the kind of government censorship around stuff like this and we produced all these documents and it's all in the public domain basically these people from the biden administration call up our team and like scream at them and curse and it's like these documents are it's all kind of out there and record any of those phone calls i don't know i don't think i don't think we were but but i think i will listen i mean there are emails that the emails are published it's all it's all kind of out there and um... and they're like and basically just got to this point where we were like no we're not gonna we're not gonna take down things that are true that's ridiculous uh... they want us to take down this meme of Leonardo DiCaprio looking at a tv talking about how ten years from now or something um... you know you're gonna see an ad that says okay if you took a covid vaccine you're uh... eligible for you know like uh... for for this kind of payment like some of the sort of like class action lawsuit type meme and then like no you have to take that down which said no we're not going to take take down humor and satire we're not gonna take down things that are that are true and then at some point um... i guess uh... i don't flip the bid i mean by then when he was he gave some statement at some point i don't know if it's press conference or to some journalists were basically was like these guys are killing people and uh... and uh... then like all these different agencies in branches of government basically just like started investigating coming after our company was they was brutal was brutal well it's just a massive overstepping

第一段：疫情期间，政府采取了一些让我觉得越界的措施，其中包括试图让你删除有关疫苗副作用的信息，这很疯狂。这个系统非常复杂，我几乎能把所有时间都花在这上面，而无法专注于其他事情，比如AI眼镜、社交媒体的未来等等。我会参与这些事情，但通常会由我们的政策团队来负责，他们是我信任的人，处理日常的互动。这一切都有记录，就像众议员吉姆·乔丹在国会进行过关于政府审查此类问题的调查，我们提供了所有这些文件，这些都公开了。拜登政府的官员曾给我们的团队打电话，冲他们咆哮和辱骂，而这些都被记录下来了。电话没录音，但邮件都公布了。事情发展到我们不再删除真实信息的地步，这是荒谬的。他们想让我们删除一个莱昂纳多·迪卡普里奥的讽刺图片，内容是关于十年后可能会看到类似“如果你接种了新冠疫苗，你有资格获得某种赔偿”的广告。我们拒绝删除幽默和讽刺的内容，也不会删除真实的信息。某个时候，总统发表了一些声明，可能在新闻发布会上说我们在害人，之后各个政府机构开始调查和针对我们公司，情况非常严峻，这是严重的越权行为。

Paragraph 2: yeah and what what i think it'll you weren't killing people this is this is the thing about all this it's like they suppressed so much information about things that people should be doing regardless of whether or not you believe in the vaccine regardless put that aside metabolic health is of the utmost importance in your everyday life whether there's a pandemic or there's not and there's a lot of things that you can do that can help you recover from illness it prevents illnesses it makes your body more robust and healthy it strengthens your immune system and they were suppressing all that information and that's just crazy you can't say you're one of the good guys if you're suppressing information that would help people recover from all kinds of diseases not just covid the flu common cold all sorts of different things high doses of vitamin c d three with k two in magnesium they were suppressing the stuff because they didn't want people to think that you could get away with not taking a vaccine which is really crazy when you're talking about something that ninety nine point oh seven percent of people survive this is a crazy overstep scared the shit out of a lot of people to red pill as it were a lot of people because they realize like oh nineteen eighty four is like an instruction manual it's like it's like it shows you how things can go that way with wrong speak and with bizarre distortion of facts and when it comes down to it in today's day and age the way people get information is through your platform through x this is how people getting information to getting information from you to get information from a bunch of different sources now and you can't censor that if it's real legitimate information because it's not ideologically convenient for you i mean that's basically the journey that i've been on right started off very pro frees free speech free expression uh... you know and then over

第二段翻译： 是的，我认为，不是说你在杀人。关于这一切的问题是，他们压制了很多信息，这些信息涉及到人们无论是否相信疫苗都应该做的事情，先不谈疫苗的问题，新陈代谢健康在日常生活中至关重要，无论有没有大流行病。你可以做很多事情来帮助自己从疾病中恢复，预防疾病，使你的身体更强壮、更健康，并增强免疫系统。他们压制所有这些信息简直是疯狂的。如果你压制那些能帮助人们从各种疾病中恢复的信息，你怎么能说自己是个好人呢？不仅仅是新冠，还有流感、普通感冒等各种疾病。他们压制关于高剂量维生素C、维生素D3与K2结合使用以及镁的信息，因为他们不希望人们认为可以不打疫苗而避开问题。当谈论到一种99.07%的人都能存活的病时，这真是一个疯狂的过度行为。这吓坏了很多人，让他们意识到像《1984》一样是一本说明书，展示了事情如何通过错误言论和对事实的奇怪扭曲而变成那样。而在当今社会，人们获取信息的方式是通过你的平台，通过X，人们现在从多个不同来源获取信息。如果这是真实的、合法的信息，你不能因为它在意识形态上对你不方便就去审查它。我经历的旅程基本上就是这样开始的：非常支持言论自由、表达自由……

Paragraph 1: it's not possible so you get a bunch of tools and a bunch things wrong and you have also people reporting things and how much is that it can affect things this you could have mass reporting because you have bad actors you have some corporation that decides we're going to attack this video because it's bad for us to take it down there's so much going on just but i want to put that in people's heads before we go on like understand the kind of numbers that we're talking about here now understand you have the the last ten years there is the in these two big episodes is the trump election in the aftermath where i feel like in retrospect i'd deferred too much to the kind of critique of the media on what we should do uh... and since then i think generally trust in media has fallen off a cliff right side

第一段：这不是可能的，所以你得到了很多工具，还犯了很多错误，还有人报告问题，这些都可能影响事情。因为有不良行为者，可能会出现大规模的报告，比如，有些公司决定要攻击某个视频，因为这个视频对他们不利，他们想让它消失。还有很多事情需要处理，但在我们继续之前，我希望大家明白我们正在讨论的数字。过去十年有两个重要事件，一个是特朗普选举及其后果，我觉得回过头来看，我对媒体的批评让步太多了。自那时起，我觉得人们对媒体的信任度已经大幅下降。

Paragraph 2: i don't think i'm alone in that journey i think uh... that's basically the the the experience that that a lot of people have had is okay it's the the stuff that's being written about is not kind of all accurate uh... and and even if the facts are right it's kind of written from a slant a lot of the time of course and then um... and then there's the government version of it which is during covid which is okay like it's like our government is is telling us that we need to censor true things it's like this is a disaster it's it's not just the u-s right i think um... a lot of people in the u-s focus on this is an american phenomenon i kind of think that the reaction to covid probably caused a breakdown in trust in a lot of governments around the world because i mean in twenty twenty four was a big election year around the world and um... you know there are all these countries india x-e you know just like a ton of countries that had that had elections and the incumbents basically lost every single one um...

第二段： 我觉得在这段旅程中我并不孤单，我想很多人都有类似的经历。我们看到的文章内容不一定都准确，即使事实是对的，很多时候它们也是带有偏见的。当然，还有政府在疫情期间的一些说法，比如说我们的政府让我们需要去审查真实的信息，这真是个灾难。而且这不仅仅是美国的现象，我觉得对新冠疫情的反应可能导致了很多国家对政府信任的崩溃。因为在2024年，全球是一个重要的选举年，许多国家，包括印度等等，都进行了选举，而大多数现任政府几乎都失败了。

Paragraph 3: so there is some sort of a global phenomenon where the the um... whether it was because of inflation because of the the economic policies to deal with um... with covid or or just how how the governments dealt with covid um... seems to have had this effect that's global not just the u-s but like a very broad decrease in trust at least in that set of incumbents and maybe in in sort of these democratic institutions overall so i think that what you're saying of yeah how do people get their information now it's by sharing online on social media um... i think that that's just increasingly true in my view at this point is like alright like we start off focused on free expression we kind of had this pressure tested over the last period i feel like i just have a much greater command now of what i think the policy should be and like this is how it's going to be going forward and um... and so i'm i'm in at this point i think you know a lot of people look at this is like a purely political thing you know it's because they they kind of look at the timing and they're like hey well you're doing this right after the election it's okay i try not to like change our content rules like right in the middle of an election either right it's like it's not like a great time to do this it's right you know um... and you want to do it a year later yeah it's like there's no good time to do it there's you know and whatever time is is going on there's going to be you know so um... the good thing about doing it after the election is you get to take this kind of cultural pulses like okay where are people right now and and how are people thinking about it we try to have policies that reflect um... mainstream discourse uh... but yeah i i don't know if this is something i've been thinking about for a while i think that this is going to be pretty durable because at this point we've just been pressure tested on this stuff for like the last eight to ten years with like these huge institutions just pressuring us and uh... and i i i feel like this is kind of the right place to be going forward

这是一个全球现象，无论是因为通货膨胀、应对新冠疫情的经济政策，还是政府处理疫情的方式，似乎都产生了全球性的影响，不仅仅是在美国，而是在很大程度上导致了对现任者和某些民主机构的信任下降。我认为你说的关于人们现在如何获取信息——通过在社交媒体上分享——是越来越真实的。我现在更加清楚我认为政策应该是什么，并且这是未来的发展方向。很多人将此视为纯粹的政治问题，因为他们看到时机，可能会想你在选举后才这样做。我尽量不在选举中途更改内容规则，因为这不是合适的时机。无论什么时候进行，总会有批评声，不过在选举之后这样做的好处是可以感受到文化的脉搏，看看人们目前的想法是什么。我们试图制定能反映主流话语的政策。我已经考虑这件事很长时间了，我觉得这个政策将是持久的，因为过去八到十年，我们已经在这些问题上经受住了大型机构的全力施压，我觉得这是未来正确的发展方向。

Paragraph 1: what was it like when they were attacking you like what first of all what was the premise like what what would they were they saying was your offense was it that you were allowing information that was not true that was getting out there i know there was also they're saying that you guys were allowing hate groups to speak there's a lot of this yeah i mean the the tough thing with politics is that there's like well when you say who someone's coming after you're referring to kind of the government of the station so i mean so the the issue is that there's the there's what specific thing agency might be looking into you for and then there's like the underlying political motivation which is like why do the people who are running this thing hate you and i think that those can often be to very different things so and we had organizations that were looking into us that were like not really involved with social media like i think the c f p b like this um... financial i don't know what it stands for it's that it's the financial organization um that elizabeth warren had set up all great and and it's basically it's like we're not a bank that we're not like good sex yeah so this is a word we're not a bank right it's like like what what is that i have to do with this but they kind of found some theory that they wanted to investigate and it's like okay clearly they were trying really hard right to like to like find find some theory but it like i don't know it just it kind of throughout the the the the the party in the government there's just sort of i don't know if it's i don't know how this stuff works and i've never been government i don't know if it's like a directive words just like a quiet consensus that like we don't like these guys they're not doing what we want to punish them but um but it's uh... it's uh... it's tough to be at the other end of that what was it like um... well it's not good i think that the thing is actually the toughest though is um it's it's global right so in in really when you think about it the u.s. government should be defending its companies right not be the tip of the spear attacking its company

当他们攻击你的时候，那是什么感觉？首先，他们的理由是什么？他们说你的过错是什么，是因为你传播了不真实的信息吗？我知道他们也说你们让仇恨团体发声，很多类似的指控。政治中的棘手问题在于，当你说某个人在追究你的责任时，通常指的是政府的行为。问题在于，有时候某个特定的机构可能在调查你，但更深层的政治动机在于，他们为什么讨厌你。这两者往往是非常不同的。我们遭到一些和社交媒体没有直接关系的机构的调查，比如消费者金融保护局（CFPB），这个金融机构是由伊丽莎白·沃伦成立的。我们不是银行，也和证券没关系，但他们找到了一些想要调查的理论，显然他们很努力在找茬。我不知道这些事情是如何运作的，我从没有在政府工作过，不清楚这是否是一种指令还是大家默契的共识，总之就是他们不喜欢我们，没有按照他们的意愿去做。所以被政府这样盯上很困难，因为这种情况是全球性的。实际上，美国政府应该保护自己的公司，而不是带头攻击它们。

Paragraph 2: when we so we we talk about a lot okay what is the experience of um you know if the u.s. government comes after you i think the real issue is that when the u.s. government does that to its tech industry um it's basically just open season around the rest of the world right i mean the the eu i pull these numbers the eu has find the tech companies more than thirty billion dollars over the last i think it was like ten or twenty years whole and shit so when you when you think about it like okay there's it's like you know hundred million dollars here couple billion dollars there but what i think really adds up to this is sort of like a kind of eu wide policy for how they want to deal with american tech it's almost like a tariff and i think the u.s. government basically gets to decide how are they going to deal with that right because if the if the u.s. government if if um some other you know country was screwing with another industry that we cared about the u.s. government would probably find some way to put pressure on them but i think what happened here is actually the complete opposite the u.s. government led the the kind of attack against the companies which then just made it's like the eu is basically in all these other places just free to just go to town on all the american companies and do whatever you want

第2段： 当我们讨论这个话题时，我们谈到的很多是，当美国政府针对你采取行动时，会有什么样的体验。我认为，真正的问题是，当美国政府对其科技行业采取这种行动时，基本上会给世界其他地方带来影响。比如欧盟，我查过一些数据，欧盟在过去十年或二十年里对科技公司罚款超过三百亿美元。当你想想这些，比如这儿几个亿，那儿几个亿，真正积累起来的是一种欧盟范围内对待美国科技公司的政策，几乎就像关税。我认为美国政府需要决定如何应对这些情况。因为如果有其他国家在干扰我们关心的产业，美国政府很可能会找到方法对它们施加压力。但我认为，这里的情况恰恰相反，美国政府带头对这些公司展开行动，这导致欧盟和其他地方可以对美国公司为所欲为。

Paragraph 1: but i mean look obviously i don't want to come across as if like we don't have things that we need to do better obviously we we do and when we mess something up we deserve to be held accountable for that and and just like everyone else um i do think that the american technology industry is a bright spot in the american economy i think it's a strategic advantage for the united states that we have a lot of the strongest uh... companies in the world i think it should be part of the u.s. strategy going forward to defend that and um and it's one of the things that i'm optimistic about with president trump is i think he just wants america to win and uh... and i think some of the stuff like the other the other governments who are kind of pushing on on the stuff it's you know it's like at least the u.s. has the rule of law rights the government can come after you for something but you still get your day in court and the courts are pretty fair and you know so we've basically done a pretty good job of defending ourselves and when we've when we've chosen to do that basically we we have a pretty good rate of winning um... it's just not like that in every other country around the world like other governments decide that they're gonna go after you don't always get kind of a a clear shake at at kind of defending yourself on on on the rules so i think to some degree if the u.s. tech industry is going to continue being really strong um i i do think that the u.s. government has a role in in basically defending it abroad and that's one of the things that i'm optimistic about will will happen in this administration

翻译成中文，易读： 但是，我的意思是，我显然不想表现得好像我们不需要改进什么，显然我们是有需要改进的地方。当我们犯错时，我们理应被追责，就像其他人一样。我认为，美国的科技行业是美国经济中的一大亮点。这是美国的一个战略优势，因为我们有很多世界上最强大的公司。我认为保护这些公司应该是美国未来的战略之一，对此我对特朗普总统抱有乐观态度，因为我认为他希望美国成功。此外，美国至少有法治政府，可以在有理由的情况下追究责任，但你仍然有机会在法庭上为自己辩护，而法庭通常是公平的。因此，在我们捍卫自己的时候，通常都能取得不错的胜利率。并不是每个国家都这样，有些国家如果决定要针对你，你未必能获得公正的机会来为自己辩护。所以，如果美国的科技行业要继续保持强势，我认为美国政府在海外保护这些公司方面起着一定的作用。这是我对这届政府感到乐观的一个原因。

Paragraph 2: well i think this is administration uniquely has felt the impact of not being able to have free speech because this was the this is the administration where trump was famously kicked off of twitter that was a huge issue like after january six like they removed the well at the time the sitting president was it kind of crazy to remove that person from social media because you've decided that he incited a riot um... so it for him without free speech without people without podcasts without social media they probably wouldn't have had a chance because the mainstream narrative other than fox news was so clearly against the majority of the television entities and print entities were against them the majority of them so if without social media without podcast they don't stand a chance so they're uniquely aware of the importance of giving people their voice free speech you do have to be careful about misinformation and you do have to be careful about just outright lies and propaganda complaints or propaganda campaigns rather and how do you differentiate

第二段翻译： 我认为这届政府特别感受到了无法自由言论的影响，因为这是特朗普被推特封禁的政府。在1月6号事件之后，这成了一个巨大的问题，他们移除了当时的在任总统。因为他们认为他煽动了一场骚乱，把他从社交媒体上移除是不是有点疯狂？所以，对他来说，如果没有言论自由，没有人们在播客和社交媒体上的发声机会，他们可能根本没有希望。因为除了福克斯新闻，主流媒体对他们明显持反对态度，绝大多数电视和印刷媒体都是反对他们的。因此，如果没有社交媒体和播客，他们根本没有机会。所以他们特别知道让人们有发声机会、拥有言论自由的重要性。你确实需要小心信息误导，也需要小心那些彻头彻尾的谎言和宣传活动，你该如何区分这些呢？

Paragraph 1: well i i think there are a couple of different things here one is that this is something where i think x and twitter just did it better than us on on fact checking we took the critique around fact checking sorry on misinformation we put in place this fact checking program uh... which basically empowered these third party fact checkers they can mark stuff false and then we would downright in the algorithm i think what what twitter and x have done with community notes i think it's just a better program uh... rather than having a small number of fact checkers you get the whole community to weigh in when people usually disagree on something tend to agree and how they're voting on on on a note that's a good sign to the community that this is there's actually a broad consensus on this and you show it and you're showing more information not less right so you're not using the fact check is a signal to show you're using the community note to provide real context uh... in in show additional information so i think that's better um...

第1段：嗯，我认为这里有几件不同的事情。首先，我认为在事实核查方面，X和推特比我们做得更好。我们听取了关于错误信息的批评，推出了一个事实核查程序，这个程序赋予第三方核查员权力，他们可以标记某些内容为假，然后我们会在算法中对其进行降权。我认为推特和X推出的社区笔记计划更好，与其由少数核查员来进行核查，不如让整个社区参与进来。当人们在某件事情上意见不一时，通常会在投票上达成共识，这对社区来说是一个好信号，表示这是广泛的共识。而且，您展示的是更多的信息而不是更少，所以您不是利用事实核查作为一个信号，而是通过社区笔记提供真实的背景信息以及额外的信息。所以我认为这样更好。

Paragraph 1: For when you're talking about like nation states uh... or people interfering a lot of that stuff is best rooted out at the level of kind of accounts doing phony things you get like whether it's a china russia iran or like one of these countries they'll set up these networks of of fake accounts and bots and they coordinate they post on each other's stuff to make it seem like it's authentic and kind of convince people to go out a bunch of people must think this or something the way they identify that is you build a i systems that can basically detect that those accounts are not behaving the way that human when we find that that there's like some bot that's operating uh... an account how do you differentiate how do you figure that out it just i mean there's some things that a person just would never do right so uh... have you met like treatment yeah yeah you might not be well but it's a pass your to get a seat in a ticket to make a million actions in a minute it's like a yeah i'm probably not okay so it's that well i mean it's it's it's more so than that i think like these guys are pretty sophisticated and it's an adversarial space so um... so we find some technique and then they uh... they basically kind of update their their techniques but but we have a team of their it's effectively like intelligence a counter intelligence folks counter terrorism folks a i folks who are building systems to identify uh... what are these accounts uh... that are just not behaving the way that people would and how are they interacting and and then sometimes you you you trace it down and uh... and sometimes you get some tips from different intelligence agencies and then you can kind of piece together over time it's a good this network of people is actually some kind of fake cluster of accounts and that's against our policies and we just take them all off but what do you how are you sure but is there a one hundred percent certainty that there were that you are definitely getting a group of people that are bad actors or is it just people that have unpopular opinion i don't think it's that for this i think um... but what i'm saying is you determine yeah how do you do it at what percentage of accuracy are you determining it do you ever accidentally think that people are gonna get moderated or actually just real people um... yes i think that's i think for the specific problem around these like large coordinated groups doing kind of like election interference or something the large enough group we have like a bunch of people analyzing it it's like they study it for a while i think we're probably accurate on that but i actually think one of the bigger issues that we have in our moderation system is this precision issue that you're talking about and that is actually of all the things that we announced this week in terms of how we're gonna update the content policies changing the content filters to have to require higher confidence and precision is actually going to be the thing that reduces the vast majority of the censorship mistakes that we make right the uh...

当我们谈论国家或个人干预时，这些问题最好从伪造账户的层面上解决。不论是中国、俄罗斯、伊朗或其他国家，他们会建立伪造账户和机器人的网络，通过相互点赞和评论制造出一种真实的假象，试图说服人们相信很多人持有这样的观点。为了识别这些情况，我们建设了人工智能系统来检测这些账户的不正常行为。如果我们发现某个机器人在操控一个账户，我们如何区分并识别出来呢？就是有些事情是一个正常人绝对不会做的。一个人不可能在一分钟内完成数百万次操作。所以，这些账户的行为非常可疑。事实上，他们已经十分复杂化，这是一场对抗。在我们发现一个技术后，他们更新他们的技术。我们的团队包括情报、反情报、反恐和人工智能专家，他们建立系统来识别哪些账户表现得不像真人，并分析他们的互动情况。有时，我们通过追踪或情报机构的提示，可以拼凑出一个虚假的账户集群，这是违反我们政策的，我们会将它们全部删除。 那么，如何确保这些账户是真正的坏人，而不是只是有不同意见的人呢？我认为，在处理这些大型协调团体、进行选举干预等问题时，我们有一个分析团队进行了长期研究，所以这方面的准确性应该是不错的。但我们在审核系统中面临的一个更大问题是精确度问题。这也是我们本周宣布更新内容政策，并要求更高的信心和精确度过滤内容的原因。这将大大减少我们所犯的审查错误。

Paragraph 1: The we're removing the fact checkers replacing them with community notes i think it's a good step forward like a very small percent of content is fact checked in the first place so it's is that gonna make the hugest difference i'm not sure uh... i think it'll be a positive step though and we we like opened up some content policies of some stuff that was restricted before we opened up okay that's good it'll mean that some set of things that might have been censored before or not by far the biggest set of issues we have and and you know i've talked about a bunch of issues like this over the years is like it's just okay you have some classifier that's it's trying to find say like drug content right people decide okay it's like the opioid epidemic is a big deal we need to do a better job of cracking down on drugs and drug sales right i want people dealing drugs on our networks.

我们正在移除事实核查员，用社区笔记来代替。我认为这是一种很好的进步。在最初，只有很小一部分内容被事实核查，所以这会产生巨大的影响吗？我不确定。不过，我认为这是一个积极的步骤。我们开放了一些以前被限制的内容政策，这很好。这将意味着，有些以前可能被审查的内容，现在不再是我们面临的最大问题。多年来，我已经谈到过很多类似的问题。就像当你有一些分类器时，它试图发现比如毒品内容。人们决定，比如说阿片类药物危机是一个大问题，我们需要更好地打击毒品及其销售。我不想让人们在我们的网络上进行毒品交易。

Paragraph 2: So we build a bunch of systems that basically go out and try to automate finding people who are who are dealing with who are dealing drugs then you basically have this question which is how precise do you want to set the classifier do you want to make it so that system needs to be ninety nine percent sure that someone is is dealing drugs before taking them down uh... do you want to be ninety percent confident eighty percent confident and then those correspond to amounts of uh... yeah i guess that the statistics term would be recall what percent of the bad stuff we finding so if you require ninety nine percent confidence maybe you only actually end up taking down twenty percent of the bad content uh... whereas if you reduce it you say okay rolling a required ninety percent confidence now maybe you can take down sixty percent of the bad content but let's say you say no we really need to find everyone who's doing this bad thing and it doesn't need to be as as severe as as dealing drugs it could just be uh...

我们建立了一些系统，主要用于自动识别那些涉嫌贩毒的人。然后，我们面临一个问题，就是要将分类器的精确度设置到何种程度：你是否希望系统在采取行动前，对某人正在进行贩毒的可能性有99%的确定性？或者是90%？80%？这些决定与我们能够发现多少不良内容相关。如果要求99%的确定性，你可能实际上只能去除20%的不良内容；而如果降低到只需90%的确定性，也许就可以去除60%的不良内容。但如果你认为必须找到所有参与这种不良行为的人，这种行为不一定像贩毒那么严重，它可能只是其他的某种非法活动。

Paragraph 3: It could be any any kind of content of uh... any kind of category of harmful content uh... you you start getting to some of these classifiers might have eighty eighty five percent precision in order to get ninety percent of the bad stuff but the promise that if you're at you know ninety percent precision that means one out of ten things that the classifier takes down is not actually problematic and if you filter if you if you can multiply that across the billions of people use our services every day that is millions and millions of posts that are basically being taken down are innocent and and upon review we're gonna look at and be like this is ridiculous that this thing got taken down which i mean i think you've had that experience and we talked about this for a bunch of stuff over time and uh... but it really just comes out to this question of where do you want to set the classifiers one of the things that we're gonna do is basically set them to be uh... to be require more confidence is this trade-off it's going to mean that we will maybe take down a smaller amount of the harmful content but will also mean that will dramatically reduce the amount of people who whose accounts were taking off for a mistake which is just a terrible experience right it's a good year you're going about your day and then one day you wake up and you're like on my what's up account just got disac or deactivated because it's connected to a face book account and the face book account uh... is uh... is is or like i'm using on the same phone as a face book account where uh... like we made some enforcement mistake and thought you were doing something bad that you weren't because our classifiers were set to be too low of precision is that happening

这段话讨论了内容分类器在识别有害内容时的精确度问题。假如分类器有80%到85%的精确度，能识别出90%的有害内容，但若精确度达到90%，这意味着每十个被删除的内容中可能有一个并无问题。如果将这种错误放大到每天使用我们服务的数十亿用户身上，那就是几百万个无辜的帖子被错误删除。审核后可能让人觉得这些删除决定非常荒谬。 因此，关键在于如何设定分类器的标准。我们计划提高分类器的精确度要求，这是一种权衡。这意味着可能会少删除一些有害内容，但同时也会大幅减少因误判而造成的用户账号被错误停用的情况。这种误判对用户来说是很糟糕的体验，比如你有天醒来发现WhatsApp账号被停用，因为它与你的Facebook账号关联，而Facebook账号因为某个误判而被处理。这种情况可能是因为我们的分类器精确度设置太低而造成的。

Paragraph 1: yeah whether what's about that cancel as well yeah cuz i mean if there is there is a lot of your face book app gets taken out like a safe you have a face book and you have like a sock puppet account and the sock puppet account you post offensive memes in your generally gross yeah if that if you get caught for that is your what's up get killed not for memes but but go back to like a very severe thing like that someone is terrorist let's say the most of your shirt yeah let's say someone is is like terrorist content they're planning some attack right so we take down their account but then let's say that person can just go then sign up with another account when i think like you know what's what's up get connected to that though well if it's and we run these different services and if they're on the same phone it's basically you know it's a one thing that units basically regulators your governments will come to us and say okay you're clearly not doing enough if you kick someone off for terrorism and they can just like sign up for another account on the phone right

段落 1：是的，关于取消某些事情，是的，因为我觉得，如果你的 Facebook 应用程序被移除了，比如说你有一个 Facebook 账号，还有一个假身份账号，而你用假身份账号发布冒犯性图片或令人反感的内容。如果你因此被抓到，你的 WhatsApp 账号会不会被封禁呢？不是因为那些图片，而是回到一个非常严重的问题，比如有人传播恐怖主义内容，计划进行某种袭击。我们会删除他们的账号，但假如那个人可以用另一个账号重新注册呢？我觉得，WhatsApp 会和这个问题关联起来吧。我们运行不同的服务，如果他们用的是同一部手机，这基本上就像是一个整体。监管机构或政府会来找我们，要求采取更多措施，因为如果你把一个恐怖分子踢出平台，而他们还能在同一手机上注册新账号，那显然我们做得不够。

Paragraph 2: okay you're also they also think okay well we're not doing enough if we deactivate their face book account because they're like planning a terrorist attack we let them use all our other services right if you're aware yeah so so if we if our systems think that someone is a terrorist then you probably need to deactivate all their their access to all the different accounts yeah they can't get on threads that's it's not threads instagram that um yeah so that makes sense so it's you can understand how you get there but then you just get to this question around the precision and the confidence level and then you're just making all these mistakes at scale and it's just unacceptable but I think it's it's a very hard calculation of like where do you want to be because on the one hand like I get it why people kind of come to us and they're like no you need to do a better job finding more of the terrorism or the drugs and all the stuff but over time the technology will get better and it'll get more precise but at any given point in time that's the choice that we have to make is do we want to make more mistakes erring on the side of of just like blowing away innocent people's accounts right or do we want to um get a higher a somewhat higher percent of of the bad stuff off and I think that there's some just some balance that you need to strike on this

第二段：好吧，他们也认为，好吧，如果我们只是因为某人计划恐怖活动而停用他们的Facebook账户，那我们做得还不够，因为我们让他们继续使用我们的其他所有服务，对吗？如果你知道的话，所以如果我们的系统认为某人是恐怖分子，那么你可能需要停用他们对所有不同账户的访问权限。比如他们无法使用Threads，而不是Threads Instagram，所以这是有道理的。你可以理解为什么这样做，但接下来就会面临关于精确度和置信度的问题，然后就是大规模出现的错误，这是无法接受的。但我认为这确实是一个很难的计算，就像你想处于什么位置。因为一方面，我理解为什么有人会来找我们，说你们需要更好地发现那些恐怖主义或者毒品等等，但随着时间的推移，技术会变得更好更精确。但在任何特定时间，我们都要做出选择，是在错误发生时多关闭无辜者的账户，还是稍微提高壹些坏内容的过滤率。我认为在这方面需要取得某种平衡。

Paragraph 3: we were having a conversation yesterday Mel Gibson and I about how that can get weird was it Theo might have been Theo I think it was Theo where that can get weird because I think like if you're a person and you work at some accounting firm but you like posting about stuff but you don't want it to come back and reflect on your life you want to shit post you want to post jokes you want to be silly you should be able to be anonymous I think there's nothing wrong with that I don't think just because you state your opinion people should be able to search where you sleep that doesn't make any sense to me but if you're gonna allow anonymous accounts you're definitely going to open up the door to bad actors having enormous blocks of accounts where they can use either a I or just programs where they have like specific answers I'm sure you've seen that before it's it's come up on Twitter multiple times where they found hundreds of sock puppet accounts tweeting the exact same thing so you you've literally word for word even certain words and caps like either keep people are copier pasting it or there's an email campaign it's getting legitimate people to do it or these are fake people you're going to have if you're gonna have anonymous accounts which I think you should because I think whistleblower's I think that the benefits of anonymous reporting on important things that the general public needs to know about especially whistleblower type stuff you have to have some ability to be anonymous but you are all if you're going to do that you're also going to have the possibility that these aren't real people that these are paid actors these are paid people or not people at all or they're running programs and they're doing this to try to sway public opinion about very important issues

昨天，梅尔·吉布森和我进行了一次对话，或者可能是西奥，我们讨论了一些可能变得奇怪的事情。我认为如果你是一个在会计公司工作但喜欢在社交媒体上发帖的人，却又不希望这些帖子影响到你的生活，那么你应该可以匿名发帖。我认为这没有什么错。只是因为你发表了意见，人们就不应该能查到你的住处，这对我来说没有道理。但如果允许匿名账户的存在，你无疑也会开启一扇让不良行为者利用大量账户的门。他们可能会利用人工智能或程序来发布特定的回复。在推特上，这种情况已经多次出现，有人发现有数百个虚假账户在发布相同的内容。内容甚至逐字逐句一模一样，还有一些单词是大写的。这可能是有人复制粘贴的内容，也可能是通过电子邮件进行的宣传，或是一些假人发布的。如果允许匿名账户存在，我认为这很重要，因为对于举报人来说，匿名报道一些公众需要知道的重要事情是有益的。但同时，这也可能意味着这些账户并不是真人，或者是受雇的人，甚至可能是程序在操作它们的，目的是影响关于一些重要问题的公众舆论。

Paragraph 1: yeah a lot of what we've seen too I mean there's the anonymous accounts also just over time I think a lot of the kind of more interesting conversations have shifted from the public sphere to more private ones so what's up groups mmm private groups on on Facebook I'm sure you have this experience where like maybe ten years ago you would have posted your kind of quick takes on on whatever social media you're using now you know the stuff that I post on on Facebook and Instagram it's like I put time into into making sure that that's kind of good content that that I want to be seen broadly yeah and then like most the jokes that I make are like with my friends in WhatsApp exactly and groups so yeah I think that that's sort of that's kind of where the world is more broadly now yeah now I think so for jokes for that kind of stuff with for comedians for sure because also will say things that we don't really mean we just say it because it's a funny thing to say like everyone does you for sure yeah which is just a weird thing about taking things out of context particularly on social media where people love to do that there is this problem of likes let's just say that you're a country that's involved in some sort of an international conflict and you have this ability to get out this fake narrative and just spread it widely about all sorts of things you're accusing this other government of all sorts of things that aren't true yeah and it just muddies the water of reality for a lot of people yeah and that's why that side of things the kind of governments running these broad manipulation campaigns I mean we're not letting off the gas on that at all I think ever like most most categories of bad stuff that we're policing everyone agrees or is bad right no one's sitting there defending that terrorism is good right child exploitation or drugs or IP violations or people inciting violence or it's like most of the stuff is bad people clearly believe that that you know election interference and foreign government manipulation of content is bad

当然，我们已经看到很多变化，我的意思是，现在很多有趣的对话从公开场合转移到了更私密的地方，比如WhatsApp群组以及Facebook上的私人群组。我相信你也有这样的经历，大约十年前，你可能会把一些快速的想法发布在你使用的任何社交媒体上。现在，我在Facebook和Instagram上发布的内容都需要花时间确保它们是优质内容，我想让更多人看到。而我的大多数笑话都是跟朋友在WhatsApp或群组里分享的。我觉得现在全球的情况也是这样的。尤其是对于喜剧演员来说，这种情况更明显，因为我们有时会说一些自己并不真正认同的话，只是因为说出来很搞笑，就像大家一样。 在社交媒体上尤其如此，人们喜欢断章取义，这也是个奇怪的问题。假设一个国家参与了一些国际冲突，他们有能力捏造虚假的说法，广泛传播各种不实指控，这让很多人无法看清事实。所以政府进行这些广泛的操纵活动，真的是个很严重的问题。我们绝不会在这些事情上松懈。大多数人同意恐怖主义、儿童剥削、毒品、侵犯知识产权和煽动暴力都是坏事。显然，大家也认为选举干预和外国政府操纵内容是不好的。

Paragraph 2: so we we have this is the type of stuff that the vast majority of our energy goes towards that and we're not changing our approach on any of that the two categories that I think have been very politicized are misinformation because who gets to judge or what's false and what's true you may just not like my opinion on something and then you know people think it's false but it but it's uh... but I think that that one's really tricky and the other one is um... is basically what you know what people refer to as hate speech which is I think also comes from a good place of you know wanting to crack down on that of of wanting to promote more inclusion and and and belonging and people feeling um... feeling good and like having a a pluralistic society that can um... that can basically have all these different communities coexist accept everyone but I think the problem is that you know you just all these things are on a spectrum and when you go too far on them um... you know i think on on that side we just basically got to this point where there were these things that you just like couldn't say which were mainstream discourse right so you know it's like piet hegsef is going to um... you know probably be defending his nomination for secretary of defense on on the senate floor and i think one of the points that he's made is that he thinks that women shouldn't be able to be in certain combat roles and until we updated our policies that wouldn't have been a thing that you could have said on our platforms because it would call for the exclusion of a protected category of people and so and it's like okay like on its on its face yeah calling for the exclusion of a protected category that seems that that's that there's like legal protections there's all the stuff but okay if it's like okay to say on the floor of congress you should probably be able to debate it on social media you know so i think some of the stuff i think well-intentioned went too far needs to just get rationalized a bit

第二段的意思是：我们的大部分精力都投入到这一类事情上，对于这些我们的处理方式并没有改变。有两个我认为被过度政治化的类别，一个是错误信息，因为怎样判断什么是真实的、什么是错误的呢？也许你只是不喜欢我对某件事情的看法，然后有人就觉得那是错误的。我觉得这是一件非常棘手的事情。另一个就是所谓的仇恨言论，我认为它的出发点是好的，旨在打击仇恨言论、促进更多的包容感和归属感，让人们感到良好，并形成一个多元化的社会，让不同的群体可以共存，接受每一个人。但问题在于，这些事情都存在一个度，当你走得太远的时候，基本上就会达到这样一个点，就是有些事情你不能说，但它们本来是主流话题。比如，皮埃特·赫格塞夫可能会在参议院为自己的国防部长提名进行辩护，他提到他认为女性不应该在某些战斗岗位上服务。在我们更新政策之前，这种观点在我们的平台上是不能表达的，因为这涉及到排斥一个受保护类别的人。但在国会的辩论中可以说，那在社交媒体上也应该能够讨论。所以我认为一些初衷良好的规定走得太远了，需要稍微理性化一些。

Paragraph 1: but but it's those two categories misinformation and hate speech i think are the ones that got politicized um... all the other ones which is the vast majority of of the stuff that we do is um... i think people generally agree that it's that it's good we need to go after it but then you just get into this problem of the mistakes like you're talking about okay well what confidence level to do people want us to have uh... in in our enforcement and at what point would people rather us kind of say okay i'm not sure that that's uh... that that one is causing an issue uh... so you so on balance maybe we should just you know leave that person's account out because the pain of just nuking someone's account when you're not sure making a mistake is like that's pretty real to right yeah very very complicated yeah it's it's all very nuanced and we you know you made a point earlier about the the government supporting its companies. that it would be a good thing for the government to support its companies it makes sense to an american company i think the issue that we're dealing with this companies as we're describing them have never existed before right there's never been a thing like face but before there's never been a thing like twitter before x it's never been a thing against the ground these are new things in terms of the impact that it has on society on opinions on conversations on distribution of information there's never been a thing like this that the government didn't control so it makes sense from their perspective continuing the patterns of behavior that they've always exhibited which is to have control of the media i mean there is been cia operatives that have been in major newspapers forever there's always been that there's always been this sort of input that the government had in mainstream media narratives they are in a position now where they're losing that is that they've essentially lost it and especially with this last the push during covid deteriorated as you were saying before the opinion and the respect that people have for the facts that are coming from mainstream journalism in a way that i've never seen before in my life where a a a normal percentage of the population does not trust mainstream media anymore so well what do they trust they trust social media was running that well do a bunch of people figured out invented it well enough fuck that like we had a crackdown on that like we've got to get our hands on this which is what we saw during covid which is we saw during the binding administration's attempt to remove the hundred by the laptop story from twitter and from the all these different things that we saw happen the way they contacted you guys what they're trying to do with getting you to remove real information about vaccine side effects like that this is like this new attempt to crack down on this new thing which is a distribution outlet that's far more successful than anything they've ever controlled before and they have no control of it they they had cbs they had nbc they had a one they had the new york times and all these washing post when they were in control of narratives in that way it was so much easier there there wasn't some sort of pirate radio voice that came on and said hey guys look here's the the latest studies it shows this is not true here's why they're lying about that here's where they're lying about this and now that's what you get all day long on x it's all day long is like dissolving illusions and that's a completely new thing that probably led to trump getting elected yeah i mean the causality there is tricky but um... because there's a lot of things and it's a lot of them it's um but without it he probably doesn't get elected um it's it's tough to know i mean i i do come back to this point that there were every major incumbent lost their elections around the world but i think that's also it might be it might be because of that revealing how how kind of incorrect and and dishonest i think some of these yeah yeah yeah so i think that's that's quite possible

第1段： 但我们所讨论的两类，即错误信息和仇恨言论，被政治化了。我们处理的其他大多数内容，我认为大家普遍认为是好的，我们确实需要处理它们。但接下来就会出现错误的问题，比如您提到的，“好吧，人们希望我们在执法中有多高的信心？” 以及“在什么时候，我们应该说这些内容是否真会引发问题？”，因此，在权衡之下，我们可能应该保留那个人的账户，因为如果不确定就封禁账户可能带来的麻烦是很真实的。这是个非常复杂的问题，所有一切都十分微妙。我们此前提到过政府对其公司的支持，这对支持国内公司来说是件好事，对美国公司来说这是有道理的。我认为我们所讨论的这些公司之前从未出现过世界上从没有像Facebook、Twitter、instagram这样的东西，这些东西对社会、舆论、信息传播造成的影响是前所未有的。政府一直控制着媒体，所以从他们的角度来看，延续一直以来的行为模式是合乎情理的，比如控制媒体。长期以来，中央情报局的特工一直在各大报纸中活跃。过去政府在主流媒体的叙事中一直有一定的影响，现在这种影响正在下降，尤其是在疫情期间，人们对主流新闻的信任和尊重下降到我这一辈子前所未有的程度，越来越多的人不再相信主流媒体。那么他们相信什么呢？他们相信社交媒体。谁在掌控社交媒体呢？一些人发明了它。这就是我们在疫情期间看到的，以及拜登政府试图将亨特·拜登笔记本电脑事件从推特上移除时我们所看到的，他们联系了你们，试图让你们移除关于疫苗副作用的真实信息可以说这是对新兴传播渠道的打压，这些渠道比他们之前控制的任何东西都更为成功且他们无法控制。在他们曾经掌控叙事之时，一切要容易得多，没有一些偷偷摸摸的声音突然出现说，“嘿，来看最新的研究，这个是不真实的，他们在撒谎。”但是现在这些声音在社交媒体上全天候存在，很可能促成了特朗普当选。虽然因果关系很复杂，因为涉及的因素很多，但可以说没有它，特朗普可能不会当选。这确实很难确定。我始终认为同时期世界各地的几乎所有重要现任者都输掉了选举，这可能也揭示了某些错误和不诚实之处。

Paragraph 1: and i mean i do think that there is this cycle that goes on where you know within a society it's not just the government that has power there's like certain people who are in these like culturally elite positions and you know journalists um... tv news anchors like who are the people who people broadly trust right there they're not all in government they're like um... a lot of a lot of people um... in other positions it's like who are the people that that uh... basically people look to and um... i think that's basically it needs to shift for the internet age and i think a lot of the people who um... people look to before they're kind of realizing hey they weren't super honest about a lot of these issues that we that we face and i think that that's partially why you know social media is in a monolithic thing it's not that people trust facebook or x they trust the creators and the voices that that they feel like are being authentic and giving them valuable information on theirs there's

我认为在社会中存在一个循环，不仅仅是政府拥有权力，还有一些人处于文化精英的位置，比如记者、电视新闻主播等等，这些人是大众普遍信任的。他们并不全都在政府中，而是分布在其他许多职位上。这些人是大家关注和依赖的对象。我认为，这种情况需要在互联网时代发生转变。很多人开始意识到，那些曾经被信任的人在很多我们面临的问题上并不是非常诚实。这也是为什么社交媒体并不是一个单一的存在，人们并不是信任脸书或某个社交平台，而是信任那些看起来真实和提供有价值信息的创作者和声音。

Paragraph 2: i think it'd be just this whole new class of creators who basically become the new kind of cultural elites that people look at and are like okay these are the people who give it to me straight and i think that that's that's a thing that is maybe it's it's possible because of social media um... i think it's also just the internet more broadly and i think podcasting is obviously a huge and important part of that too um... and i don't know to what extent you feel like you kind of got to be large like because of social media or just it's or just a podcasting platforms that you used but um... but i think that this is like a very big sea change in terms of like who are the voices that matter and you know what we do is we try to build a platform that gives people a voice but i think that there's this wholesale generational shift in who are the people who are being listened to and i think that that's like a very fascinating thing that is going on because i i i think that that's like what is what's going on here it's not it's it's not just the government um... in people saying hey we we want like a very big change here i think it's just like a wholesale shift in saying we just want different people who we actually trust right um... who who are actually gonna like tell us the truth then like and not give us like the bullshit opinions that you're supposed to say but like the type of stuff that i would actually like when i'm sitting with my in my living room with my friends like the stuff that we know is true like who are the people who kind of have the courage to actually just say that stuff um... i don't know i think that whole like cultural elite class needs to get repopulated with people who people actually trust

我觉得会出现一类全新的创作者，他们基本上会成为新的文化精英，人们会看向他们，并认为这些人能给出真实的信息。我认为这可能是因为社交媒体的兴起，同时也和互联网的普及有关，播客显然在其中扮演了重要角色。我不确定你是否觉得自己很大程度上因为社交媒体或所用的播客平台而变得有影响力，但我认为这代表了一种非常大的变化，改变了哪些声音被认为重要。我们的目标是建立一个平台，赋予人们发声的机会。我认为，这是一代人的整体转变，决定了哪些人被倾听。我觉得这非常有趣，因为这不仅仅是政府在说我们想要一个很大的变化，而是人们普遍希望有不同的人来提供他们真正信任的信息，那些敢于直言，而不是说一些官方套话的人。这就像我和朋友坐在客厅里，讨论我们知道是真实的事情一样。这样的文化精英阶层需要重新由人们真正信任的人来组成。

Paragraph 3: yeah um... the problem is these people that are starting these jobs they're coming out of universities and in the universities are indoctrinated into these ideas as well it's it's very difficult to be a person who stands outside of that and takes unpopular positions you get socially ostracized and people are very the very hesitant to do that and they would rather just keep their mouth shut and talk about it in quiet conversation and that's what we experience which is another another argument for anonymous accounts i think you should have an honest accounts with i think you should be able to like if there's something like covid mandates or some things that you're dealing with and you don't want to get fired because of it you should be able to talk about it and you should be able to post facts and information and what you've learned you know a pro anecdotal experiences of people in your family that had that vaccine side effects and not worry about losing your job which people were worried about which is so crazy and you know and you're seeing a lot of the people that used to be in mainstream media got fired and now they're trying to do the sort of podcast thing but they're trying to do it like a mainstream media person so they're like gaslighting during podcasts and people are like hey fuck face like this you can't do that here it doesn't work

嗯......问题是，这些刚进入职场的人在大学里已经被灌输了一些想法。很难成为一个站在这些想法之外并持有不受欢迎立场的人，因为这样会被社会孤立，人们通常非常犹豫去这么做。他们宁愿沉默，只在私下里讨论，这就是我们所经历的。这也是支持匿名账户的另一个理由。我认为你应该能够匿名表达自己的观点，尤其是对一些像新冠疫情政策这样的问题。如果你不想因为发表意见而被解雇，你应该能够谈论这些问题，分享事实和信息，以及你所了解的内容，比如你家人接种疫苗后出现的副作用，而不用担心失去工作。很多以前在主流媒体工作的人被解雇了，他们现在尝试做播客，但他们往往还是以主流媒体的方式来做，这在播客中却行不通，听众会直接指出这点。

Paragraph 1: yes it wants a new medium i mean i know i'm sure you know the history on this it's like when when people transition from radio to tv the initial tv anchors were the same radio people but just like being filmed while speaking on the radio but it turned out it actually was a completely different type of person that you need because on your radio is just like your voice and your cadence and all that it's like you know that the whole phrase it's like you've got a good radio voice right it's like okay on tv you need to be telegenic right you need to kind of have charisma in that medium it's like a completely different thing and um i think that that's going to be true for the internet too it's you know it's not as cut or i think part of it is the format right the fact that you do these like two three-hour episodes i mean i hated doing tv because you know i basically got started i started facebook when i was 19 and i was good at some things very bad at others i was good at coding and like real bad at at kind of like talking to people and explaining what i was doing and i just like had these experiences early on where i'd go on tv and like it wouldn't go well and they'd like cut

翻译成中文： 是的，它需要一种新媒介，我是说，我确信你也了解这一历史，就像人们从广播过渡到电视时，最初的电视主播其实就是那些广播员，只不过被拍下来在广播中说话而已。但后来发现，它其实需要完全不同类型的人，因为在广播中，只需要注意声音、节奏等，大家会说“你有个很好的广播嗓音”。而在电视上，你需要上镜，你需要在这个媒介中有魅力，这完全是不同的事情。我觉得互联网也是如此。虽然没有那么明确，我认为部分原因是格式，比如你制作这些两三个小时的节目。我讨厌做电视，因为我19岁开始创办Facebook的时候，在某些事情上很擅长但在其他方面很糟糕。我擅长编程，但在人际交流和解释我所做的事情上很糟糕。早期我去电视节目时，表现不太好，他们就剪掉了内容。

Paragraph 2: if they'd cut it to some down to some random sound bite and i'd like look stupid and then like and then basically like i'd get super nervous about about like going on tv because i knew that they were just going to cut it in some way that it was going to look like a fucking idiot and like and so i'm just like this sucks right so so i just like it's kind of a funny thing about like it's like in some ways it's like okay at the same time i was you know gaining confidence being able to like build more and more complicated products and it's like even as an early 20s person i was like i could do this and then on the kind of tv and comms public side i was like this is a disaster every time i got it's worse and worse and worse and it just but um but i mean it's it's one of the reasons why i think on the internet like there's no reason to cut it to a four-minute sound bite

第二段：如果他们把它剪成一些随机的片段，我看起来会很蠢，这让我非常紧张，因为我知道他们会以某种方式剪辑，让我看起来像个笨蛋。所以我觉得这真是糟糕。与此同时，我在构建越来越复杂的产品方面逐渐有了信心，尽管我当时二十出头，但我觉得自己可以做到这一点。然而，在电视和公共交流方面，每次上节目都是一场灾难，情况变得越来越糟。不过，我认为这也是为什么在网上没有理由把内容剪成四分钟的片段的原因之一。

Paragraph 3: conversation it's like i think part of what what makes it authentic is like we can just i mean these are complex issues we can unpack it for hours and and probably still have hours more stuff to talk about it just it's i don't know i think i think it's just more real yeah it's definitely that and the other thing about television that's always going to hold it back is the fact that every conversation gets interrupted every x amount of minutes because you have to cut to a commercial so you you really can't get into depth even bill marsha was only an hour you know you have all these people talking over each other then you sit down with one person for a short amount of time it's just not enough time for important subjects it's also a lot of them for whatever reason want to do in front of an audience which is the worst way to get people to talk like when you imagine these disasters that you had if there was like five thousand people staring at you in a tv crowd as well

第3段：谈话的魅力之一在于它的真实性，这源于我们可以深入展开复杂的问题，讨论几个小时，甚至还会有更多话题可以继续探讨。我觉得这使得交流更加真实。而电视节目总是会受到限制，比如每隔一段时间就要插播广告，这会中断每一场谈话，导致无法深入探讨。即便像比尔·马这些只有一小时的节目，你会看到很多人相互打断，或者只与一个人进行短时间的交流，这对讨论重要话题来说时间太短。还有一些节目可能因为各种原因喜欢在观众面前进行，但这其实是让人们真实交流的最差方式，你可以想象一下如果有五千人在电视观众席盯着你看，效果会有多糟。

Paragraph 4: yeah so that added element yeah which is so not normal and not conducive to having a conversation when you're talking about nuance things yeah where you have to like think you have to be able to pause and and not concern yourself being entertaining from these fucking people just sitting there staring at you yeah and and also like when you're having a conversation say it like i don't know it's like when you start talking about something you're kind of subconscious kicks in you start thinking about the the topic so it's like you might not actually have the thing that you want to say until like five minutes later right and right i mean it's like when we started this conversation i think like the first few minutes where they're just kind of slow it's like warming up like okay kind of like downloading into my memory like how how am i gonna like you know it's like how am i gonna you know just explain these different things but it's um

第四段翻译如下： 是的，这种额外的因素确实很不正常，也不利于进行谈话，尤其是当你在讨论一些细微的问题时。你需要思考，需要能够暂停，而不是为了那些坐在那里盯着你看的人去刻意表现得有趣。而且，当你在进行一场谈话时，好像是你的潜意识开始发挥作用，你会开始思考这个话题。所以，你可能在开始时并没有立即说出你真正想表达的东西，而要到五分钟后才会有清晰的想法。比如说我们开始这场谈话的时候，我觉得前几分钟有点慢热，就像在热身一样，我需要将这些想法在脑海中整理好，想一下如何去解释这些不同的事物。

Paragraph 5: yeah i just think that that's sort of how people work what's also like it's conversations are like a dance you know one person can't be dancing at another speed and the other person is going slow like you kind of have to find the rhythm that you're going to talk with and then you have to actually be interested in what you're talking about that's another thing that they are at a huge disadvantage of in mainstream media it's like they're just doing that because that's their job you know they probably don't even know a lot about climate change they probably don't really understand too much about what SpaceX is trying to accomplish but they're just reporting on it yeah i mean i'm sure there's a lot of the people i've met there i think are good people i'm sure it's just a tough format it's a terrible format

第五段：我觉得这就是人们交流的方式，就像跳舞一样。一个人不能跳得太快而另一个人慢慢跳，你需要找到一个共同的节奏来交谈，并且真正对谈论的话题感兴趣。主流媒体在这方面有很大的劣势，他们只是把这当作工作。他们可能对气候变化了解不多，对SpaceX的目标也不太理解，但他们还在报道。我确信我遇到的许多人都是好人，只是这种格式太糟糕了，确实很难操作。

Paragraph 1: yeah and the problem is they get locked into that format and no one trusts them and then they leave and they go yeah but you were just lying to us about this that and the other thing and now i'm supposed to believe you're one of the good guys you're one of the straight shooters now yeah well getting back to the original point this is why i think you know it makes sense to me that the government didn't want you to succeed and to have the sort of unchecked power that they perceived social media to to have and i think one of the benefits that we have now of the trump administration is that they have clearly felt the repercussions of a limited amount of free speech of free speech limitation censorship government overreach

是的，问题在于他们被固定在那种模式中，没有人信任他们，然后他们离开，人们就会说，你之前在这些事情上一直在骗我们，现在我应该相信你是个好人，是个实话实说的人吗？嗯，回到最初的观点，这就是为什么我认为政府不想让你成功，不想让你拥有他们认为社交媒体拥有的那种不受限制的权力。我认为我们现在从特朗普政府那里得到的一个好处就是，他们已经明显感受到了言论自由受限、审查以及政府权力过度扩张带来的后果。

Paragraph 2: if anybody saw it look at there's i don't know what the actual impact of the hunter-biden laptop story would have been i don't know but there's many people that think it probably amounted to millions of votes overall in the country of people that were on the fence the people that weren't sure who they're going to vote for if they found out the hunter-biden laptop was real they're like oh this is fuck the family's fucking crazy and they would have voted for trump that's possibly real and if that's possibly real that could be defined as election interference and all that stuff scares the shit out of me that kind of stuff scares the shit out of me when the government gets involved in what could be termed election interference

如果有人看到了这件事，我不确定亨特·拜登笔记本事件的实际影响会是什么。我不清楚，但有很多人认为，这可能影响了全国上百万张选票。这些选票来自那些对投票对象犹豫不决的人。如果他们发现亨特·拜登的笔记本是真的，他们可能会想，“哦，这家人真是太疯狂了”，然后他们就会投票给特朗普。这有可能是真的。如果这可能是真的，那就可能算作选举干预。这种事情让我非常害怕。尤其是当政府介入时，这种被称为选举干预的事情更让我害怕。

Paragraph 3: but through some weird loophole it's legal whereas some i don't think i don't think that the pushing for social media companies to censor stuff was legal i mean it's like that's and there's all this stuff about what that like people talk about the first amendment and okay these these tech platforms should should offer free speech like the first amendment it's that i think is a philosophical principle the first amendment doesn't apply to companies and what in our content moderation it's more of an american ethos about how we think that that um you know best dialogue is carried out but the first amendment does apply to the government

第三段：但通过某种奇怪的漏洞，这种做法是合法的，而我认为推动社交媒体公司去审查内容的做法并不合法。有人谈到第一修正案，说这些科技平台应该像第一修正案那样提供言论自由。我认为这更多是一种哲学原则，因为第一修正案并不适用于公司，而是适用于政府。我们的内容管理更像是一种美国精神，关于我们认为最好的对话该如何进行。

Paragraph 4: that's like the whole point right as the government is not allowed to censor the stuff so it's some level i do think that you know having people in the administration calling up the guys on our team and yelling at them and cursing and threatening repercussions if we don't take down things that are true is like it's pretty bad it sounds illegal i would love to hear it i wish somebody recorded those conversations well i mean i'd be i mean again it's well great to listen to so many can animate them maybe polytuned the uh a lot of the material is is public i mean it's uh i mean jim jordan led this whole investigation in the in congress i mean it was basically i think about this is like you know what elon did on the twitter files when he took over that company

第四段：这就是重点，对吧，政府是不允许审查内容的。所以，从某种程度上来说，我确实认为，政府里的某些人打电话给我们团队成员，对他们大声呵斥、咒骂，并威胁如果我们不删除那些事实内容就会有后果，这种行为真是很糟糕，听起来都像是违法。我真希望有人录下这些对话。我觉得，如果能听听这些会很有趣，甚至可以把它动画化，也许用多边形调整一下。其实很多材料都是公开的，比如说，吉姆·乔丹在国会就进行过整个调查。这让我想到埃隆接管推特时所做的那些“推特文件”事情。

Paragraph 5: i think jim jordan basically did that for the rest of the industry with the the congressional investigation that he did and we just turned over like all the documents and everything that we had um to them and they basically put together this report and the people that actually did call for censorship what was the response to all this uh to what to the to the investigation yes i don't know i don't know did was anybody held accountable was there any i mean any repercussions i mean they lost the election yes so that's it that's i think that's it well in a democracy i mean that's kind of right um um but if the if what they did was illegal do you not think that some step should be put in place to make sure that people are punished for that and that that never happens again it seems that that has a massive impact on the way our country goes if that's election interference and i think it is that has a massive impact on the direction of our country

我认为吉姆·乔丹通过他进行的国会调查，对整个行业都产生了影响。我们向他们提交了所有的文件和资料，他们基本上整合出了这份报告。对于那些呼吁审查的人来说，对于这一切，包括调查本身，有什么反应呢？我不太清楚，不知道是否有人被追责，是否有任何后果。嗯，他们输了选举，是的，我想这就是了。在民主制度下，这可能就算一个结果。不过，如果他们的行为是非法的，你不觉得应该有一些措施来确保这些人受到惩罚，并防止此类事件再次发生吗？这似乎对国家走向有重大影响。如果这算是选举干预，那确实对国家的方向产生了巨大的影响。

Paragraph 1: yeah well the covid thing i don't think was election interference as much as it was just like government meddling where it shouldn't have but yeah no i mean it's no i'm talking about the hunter by lapops for me to say you know like what specific retribution or justice should happen to anyone who is involved in these things but i think your point about let's make sure this doesn't happen again yeah is um is the one that i'm more focused on right because then it's the thing that i reflect on on my journey on all this which is like okay yeah so we didn't take down the stuff that was true but we did generally defer to the government on some of these policies that in retrospect i probably wouldn't knowing what i know now and um and i i just think that that's that's sort of the journey that we've been on is like okay we start the thing focused on free expression go through some like pretty crazy times in the world get it pressure tested see where we basically ended up doing stuff that led to a slippery slope that we weren't happy with the conclusion and like try to reset and that's sort of the moment that we're at now is is trying to just rationalize um a bunch of a bunch of the policies and and look i mean obviously crazy things can happen in the future that might on earth something that i haven't um you know some some kind of angle on this that i haven't um thought enough about yet so i know i'm sure i'm not done making mistakes in the world but um but i think at this point we have a much more thorough understanding of what the space is and i i think our our kind of values and principles on this are likely going to be much more durable going forward um and and i think that that's probably a good thing for the internet i think it's a great thing for the internet

第一段：嗯，我觉得新冠疫情这种事更多是政府的干预，而不是直接的选举干扰。说到拜登之子笔记本电脑事件，我并不是在指责谁，也无法具体说出应该如何惩罚涉事者，但我认为你关于"确保这种事情不再发生"的观点是我更关注的重点。我在这件事中的思考是，我们没有删掉那些真实的信息，但我们在某些政策上过于依赖政府。现在回想起来，如果知道结果我可能不会那样做。我们的经历过程是从关注自由表达开始，经历世界上一些非常疯狂的时刻，面临了考验，发现我们做过的一些事导致了我们不满意的结果，现在我们正在试图重设方向。这是我们当前所处的阶段，即努力合理化许多政策。当然，未来可能会发生疯狂的事情，暴露出我还没想透的角度。我肯定我还会犯错误，但我觉得此时我们对这个领域有更深入的理解，我认为我们的价值观和原则在未来会更加坚定。我认为这对互联网而言是好事，我认为这对互联网而言是件很棒的事情。

Paragraph 2: i was very happy with your announcement i'm very happy that you took those steps i'm very happy brought dana white aboard oh he's awesome been talking to him for a while about that i mean he's like talk about like an amazing entrepreneur right it's like i just want like because i control our company i have the benefit of not having to convince the board not to fire me right it's like a normal corporate environment it's like basically the ceo just tries to like you know they're just trying to convince the board to like let them have their job and pay them more it's like all right the board doesn't pay me except for security and um and i'm not worried about losing my job because i control the majority of the voting and the company so i actually get to use our board to like have these smartest people who i can get to have around me help work on these problems so it's like all right who are the people i want like i just want like the best entrepreneurs and people have created different things and like i mean dana is like this guy who i mean he basically took the sport from being this like i think it was viewed as like this pretty marginal thing when he got started right i think john mccain was trying to outline and yeah um and you know now it's like i think it in f1 or the two fastest growing sports in the world it's got hundreds of millions of people viewing it it's like i mean what dana's done with the ufc is like one of the most legendary business stories and um and the brand is beloved and and i think he's just

第二段：我对你的宣布感到非常高兴，我很高兴你采取了这些措施，也很高兴你邀请了达纳·怀特加入。哦，他真是太棒了，我和他谈了好一阵子。可以说，他是一个了不起的企业家。我想要这样的人才，因为我控制着我们的公司，不需要去说服董事会不炒掉我。在一般的公司环境中，CEO基本上就是努力说服董事会让他们保住工作，并提高工资。而我不需要担心失去工作，因为我掌握了大部分的投票权和公司。所以我实际上可以利用我们的董事会让身边最聪明的人帮助解决这些问题。于是我想，我希望哪些人加入呢？我只想要最好的创业者和那些创造不同事物的人。达纳就是这样的人，他基本上把一项运动从一开始看似边缘化的东西，发展到如今快速成长起来的运动之一。刚开始的时候，约翰·麦凯恩甚至想要抵制它。现在，我认为它与F1是世界上增长最快的两项运动之一，有数亿人在观看。达纳在UFC所做的一切可说是最传奇的商业故事之一，品牌也备受喜爱。我认为他简直是……

Paragraph 1: so he's like a world-class entrepreneur and he's just like a he's got a strong backbone and i think part of what the conversation that i had with him around joining our board was okay like we have a lot of governments and folks around the world putting a lot of pressure on our company and like we need some like strong people who are going to basically you know help help advise us on how to handle some of these situations and um and so yeah that's but yeah i mean this is running this company is not for the faint of heart i mean you definitely there's definitely a lot of pressure from from like all these different governments and and then then it's like okay i could spend all my time doing that but i'm not even a politician like i want to i just want to spend my time building things right so it's um so yeah i think dana's gonna be great he's the best great entrepreneur i agree with everything you said about him without him none of the ufc would have ever taken place the way it did i mean you needed the frittita brothers they had to come in with all the money and the vision

他是一位世界级的企业家，意志坚定。我在邀请他加入我们董事会的对话中提到，我们的公司面临着来自世界各地以及许多政府的巨大压力，我们需要一些有能力的人来为我们提供建议，帮助我们处理这些情况。管理这家公司并不是一件轻松的事，确实需要面对来自不同政府的各种压力。我当然可以把所有时间花在这些事情上，但我毕竟不是一个政治家，我更想把时间花在创造事物上。我认为Dana会非常出色，他是一个伟大的企业家。毫无疑问，正如你所说，没有他，UFC就不会取得今天这样的成就。当然，也需要Frittita兄弟，他们提供了资金和愿景。

Paragraph 2: and it's really funny because eddie brovall and i you know we've been fans for so long eddie brovall and i went to a live event in the 90s i was working for the ufc as a backstage interviewer and he went there with ricky rocket you know ricky rocket from poison no he's a fucking black belt under the machados huh he's legit super legit really nice guy too anyway so ricky rocket and him were at the uh ufc and we were talking about it in the 90s so like you know what the support needs because we were in love with it we're like this but we were martial artists we're like the sport needs some billionaires who just throw a ton of money on it and just get it huge and then the frittita brothers come along billionaires with a ton of money who are huge fans of the sport just love the sport we know we're hiring people like frank shamrock to come in and train them and work out and we're taking jiu jitsu with john louis and they were really getting into it

第二段：这真的很有趣，因为我和艾迪·布罗瓦尔已经是这个项目的粉丝很长时间了。在90年代，我和艾迪一起去看了一场现场比赛。当时我为UFC做后台采访，他和瑞奇·罗基特一起来了。你知道瑞奇·罗基特吗？他是一个非常厉害的黑带高手，师从马查多师兄弟，真的是个很正派也很友善的人。总之，那时候我们就在UFC，讨论这个项目的发展需求，因为我们对此充满热爱。我们是武术爱好者，觉得这个运动需要一些亿万富翁来投入大量的资金，带动它的发展。随后，费尔蒂塔兄弟出现了，他们是亿万富翁，也是这个项目的超级粉丝，真心热爱这项运动。他们还雇佣了像弗兰克·沙姆洛克这样的人来参与训练，我们也在跟随约翰·路易学巴西柔术，他们真的全身心投入进去。

Paragraph 3: and so then they buy the ufc for like two million dollars which is probably the greatest purchase ever except they were a forty plus million dollars in the hole when they financed the ultimate fighter and then that was 2005 and then this one fight takes place with stephen botter and forest griffin on television it's so wild and so crazy that millions of people start tuning in the sport's born then you have chukla del who was the champion at the time who was the most fan-friendly champion you could ever have just a fucking berserker with just psycho path with a fucking head tattoo and a mohawk crushing people in his prime he was the perfect poster guy for the ufc because he was just smashing people and then throwing his arms back like in a cage it was nuts i'm sure you've seen a lot of chukla del fight

第三段： 后来，他们以大约两百万美元的价格收购了UFC，这可能是历史上最成功的购买之一。尽管他们在融资《终极斗士》时亏损了超过四千万美元，但那是2005年，然后在电视上有一场史蒂芬·博纳尔和福里斯特·格里芬的比赛，这场比赛如此狂野和疯狂，以至于数百万人开始关注这个运动，MMA因此诞生。接着是楚克·利德尔，那时他是冠军，是有史以来最受欢迎的冠军。他是一个狂暴的人，留着莫霍克头发和头部纹身，处于巅峰时期，轻松击败对手。他是UFC的完美代言人，因为他总是在战胜对手后，张开双臂，仿佛在笼子里一样，非常疯狂。我相信你一定看过很多楚克·利德尔的比赛。

Paragraph 4: yeah yeah it was just the the whole thing took off but without dana it would have never taken place the guy's tireless that mane i could call him up i'll call him up at like two o'clock in the morning sometime like there's some fight going on and i'll say hey this is going on next weekend i'm so fucking pumped and we'll talk for hours for hours he just wants to talk about fights he's like so locked in like all the time you know and he's he's just like so driven he's and now that he's healthy like oh my god he's got like what Gary Breck has done for him is incredible he lost all this weight got super thin real fit super healthy he doesn't fuck around with alcohol anymore he just eats healthy food he looks great now he's getting even more energy yeah it's incredible well we're lucky to have some of it yeah we are

是的，是的，这整个事情真的起飞了，但如果没有达纳，这一切就不会发生。这家伙精力旺盛，我可以在凌晨两点给他打电话，彼此聊一些即将到来的比赛，说我有多么激动，然后我们能聊上好几个小时。他总是如此专注，总是积极投入。现在他健康了，天哪，Gary Breck 对他的帮助真是不可思议，他减掉了很多体重，变得非常苗条、健康，再也不喝酒了，只吃健康的食物，看起来棒极了，现在他的精力更充沛了，真是太了不起了。我们有幸能从中得到一些启发，确实是这样。

Paragraph 1: and you know what we're also lucky that you got into jiu-jitsu i think that had an effect on you you look different when you walked in here today you look thicker you look like a different guy you do you look at your jiu-jitsu guy now it's funny i saw your neck i'm like it's next bigger your neck is bigger good are you using iron neck or is it just i do like iron neck but but it's um but when i started training not just jiu-jitsu but striking i was like all right i want to find a way to do this where i don't like like hurt my brain right it's like all right like i need to yeah i'm gonna be running this company for a while i would like to you know like stay stay healthy and not take too much damage and so i think the number one thing you need to do is well in addition to having good partners is um have a strong neck yes so yeah so yeah now i take that i take that pretty seriously it's very important strong neck is great for jiu-jitsu as well because it's a weapon like in certain positions like head and arm chokes oh no you need a neck yeah it's a weapon yeah and you know and also for defending things and just for overall stability but for striking it's very like mike tyson in his prime he has a 20 inch neck yeah no it's crazy his neck is like bigger than his face a photo of him in a suit it's the craziest photo is like his neck starts at the top of his ears and he just goes straight down when he was a champ when he was a tank yeah the neck is very important but it's also like you know you're doing it very smart you're bringing in dave camarillo he's awesome amazing he's awesome you're bringing all these like super talented people to train with you too which is really important and just learn systematically probably the way you've learned all these other things which is really so fascinating to me about mma and and jiu-jitsu in particular is the general public has this knuckle dragging meathead sort of perspective and then i'm like let me introduce you to mike moose-a-michi yeah well there's there's a range there's a range for mike but mike is one of the elite of the elite and he's about as far from the left mike he's a very good guy he's super good guy he's super kind and and unbelievably brilliant and eccentric and just and just so dedicated jiu-jitsu right yeah i'm glad that he's over at the ufc now yes i am too

第一段翻译： 你知道吗，我们真的很幸运你开始练习柔术，我觉得这对你产生了影响。今天你走进来的时候看上去有些不同，你显得更壮实，像是变了个人。你现在真像个柔术高手了。好笑的是，我注意到你的脖子变粗了，我在想这是不是“铁脖子”的功劳。虽然我很喜欢“铁脖子”这个训练器材，但其实我不只是开始练习柔术，还有打击类的训练。当时我就想，怎样才能在不伤到大脑的前提下进行这些训练呢？毕竟我还要管理公司一段时间，我希望保持健康，不要受太多伤害。所以，除了有好的训练伙伴，最重要的就是要有强壮的脖子。对，强壮的脖子在柔术中也很有用，因为在一些特定的情况下，比如头臂绞，脖子也是一种武器。同样，在防守和整体稳定性上，脖子也很关键。在打击训练中，脖子的作用尤其明显，比如巅峰时期的迈克·泰森，他的脖子有20英寸粗，非常夸张，脖子甚至比脸还宽。在他当拳王时，简直就像个坦克。脖子很重要，而你处理得很聪明，你请来了大卫·卡马里洛这样的高手来训练，这很重要。而且，你是系统地学习，就像你学其他技能一样，这让我很着迷。综合格斗和柔术总给大众一种粗鲁的印象，但我就想给你介绍一下迈克·穆萨米琪。他虽然是精英中的精英，但为人非常友好、善良、超乎寻常的聪明又有些古怪，且极其专注于柔术。我很高兴他现在加入了UFC。

Paragraph 2: yeah well i'm glad a guy like that exists i like because i like i'm like okay i know you think that let me show you this guy and then i'm like let me show you what it really is let me introduce you to these people because they're the nicest people i know there's no better stress reliever in the world than jiu-jitsu or martial arts there's no better you you leave there you're the kindest person in the world you just like you'll all of your aggressions out of your system yeah and it's a phenomenal stress reliever because regardless of what you're going through day-to-day with facebook and meta and all the different projects you have going on it's not as hard as someone trying to choke you unconscious it's not as acute i think it's like sometimes you have someone trying to choke you unconscious slowly over a multi-month period and that's that's business but right um but now i think that sometimes in business the cycle time is so long that it is very refreshing to just have a feedback loop that's like oh i like had my hand down so i got punched in the face it's like that's like yeah that's um but yeah no i it's it's really important to me for balance i mean i i basically try to train every morning i'm either doing general fitness or or kind of mma and do sometimes grappling sometimes striking or some as both but um it got to the point where i'm not i tore my ACL training i was probably um at that point i didn't have i wasn't integrated between my weight training and my fighting training so i think i was probably overdoing it so now now we basically i'm i'm just trying to do this in a cohesive way which i i think will be more sustainable but when i when i tore my ACL first of all i've run at the company was like yeah fuck we're gonna get so many more emails now it's like that he can't that he can't do this um and then and then i sat down with Priscilla and i expected her to be like you're an idiot like what do you expect you're like you know i was in my late 30s at the time and but she was like no she's like when you heal your ACL you better go back to fighting and i'm like what do what do you mean she's like you're so much better to be around now that you're doing this you have to fight and so that's hilarious

第二段翻译如下： 是啊，我很高兴有这样的人存在。我喜欢这样的事，因為我喜欢这样，我就会说，好吧，我知道你这么想，让我给你看看这个人，然后让我告诉你这究竟是什么样的。让我介绍你认识这些人，因为他们是我认识的最友善的人。没有比柔术或武术更好的解压方式了。世界上没有比这个更好的了。你离开训练场时，你会变成世界上最和善的人，你会把所有的攻击性都释放出来。是的，这真的是个出色的压力释放器，因为无论你每天在处理Facebook和其他项目时遇到了什么困难，它都没有人试图把你勒昏那么困难。虽然有时在商业中，有些事情似乎像是有人持续几个月慢慢试图把你“勒昏”，但现在我认为商业中的周期时间有时候太长了，而快速得到反馈是很让人舒服的事情，比如说手的位置放错了所以被打了一拳，这就是那个感觉。对我来说，平衡非常重要。我基本上每天早上都在锻炼，要么是一般的健身，要么是综合格斗，有时是柔术，有时是击打，有时两者都有。当我的ACL撕裂时，我意识到我当时的体重训练和格斗训练没有统筹结合，所以可能过度训练了。现在，我尝试以一种更连贯的方式来做这些，我认为这样会更可持续。当我ACL撕裂后，我公司的同事都是一副"哦，不，我们现在要收更多的邮件了，因为他不能搞这些运动了"的样子。然后，我和Priscilla坐下来，我以为她会批评我，说你真傻，毕竟那时我已是三十多岁了。但她却说：“等你治好ACL后，一定要回去继续格斗。”我当时一愣，她说：“你做了这些事后的变化让你更容易相处了，你必须继续打斗。”这真是太搞笑了。

Paragraph 1: yeah so and um is it funny that like that's completely contrary to the way most people if they're outside of it would perceive it i mean it definitely takes the edge off things but it's like after like a couple of hours of doing that in the morning it's just like yeah it's like nothing else that day is gonna stress you out that yeah right you can just you can just deal with it um voluntary adversity yeah yeah no it's good it's good it's also good i think to be a little bit tired like it's like it just it's i love that feeling of just like you're not like exhausted um and sometimes you get a session and you should go so hard and you i need to like just go to sleep or something but yeah um it's also good to know that you can kill people that's a good thing to know it's a good thing to know if something goes sideways i guess there's a there's a certain confidence around that yeah it's an important skill yeah if you could give it an appeal if you could sell it in a pill everybody would buy it yeah a hundred no one would say i'd like to be the vulnerable guy walking around with a bunch of fucking assassins yeah no one would say that they would say how much is the pill oh it's two dollars oh give me one of those pills you take the pill everybody would take that pill well it exists it's just not a pill it's a long journey of pain discipline and and trial and error and learning and being open-minded and being objective and understanding position and asking questions and having good training partners and absorbing information and really being diligent with your skill acquisition work which is a one of the most important and neglected parts of jujitsu because training is so fun everybody just wants to roll you know where really the best way to do it is actually to drill and it's the most boring but really you should drill constantly just jam those skills into your neurons where your brain knows exactly what to do in every position and it's such an intellectual pursuit and most people don't think of it that way because you have to manage your mind while you're moving your body you're managing anxieties you're you're you're trying to figure out when to hit the gas and when to control position and recover there's so much going on in training that applies to virtually any stressful thing that you'll ever experience in your life and along with it you get this skill where you can kill people you shouldn't kill people let me be clear I'm not saying it's a good thing to kill people

第一段：是的，所以，这很有趣，如果你从局外人眼光来看，情况完全相反。我是说，这确实能缓解很多压力，但在早上练习几个小时后，你会感到，没什么其他事情会让你紧张。是的，你可以应对自如，可这是一种自我训练的苦难，我觉得这很棒，我也觉得有点疲倦也不错。这种感觉我很喜欢，就像，你并不是完全筋疲力尽。有时候训练感觉很投入，以至于需要立刻倒头大睡。不过，知道自己有能力去自卫或者保护自己，这还是一件好事，如果情况有变，这会给你一定的信心，确实是一个重要的技能。如果有一颗药丸能提供这种能力，每个人都会去买。没有人会说“我想要当那个在一堆杀手中行走的脆弱者。”大家只会问这药丸多少钱，两美元？给我来颗这样的药。事实上，这种能力的获取并不是靠药丸，而是一段充满痛苦、纪律、反复试验、学习、开放思维和客观理解的位置的旅程。你必须不断提问，有好的训练伙伴，吸取信息，努力提升技能。这其实是巴西柔术中最重要但也最容易被忽视的部分，因为大家都喜欢实战，但其实最好的方法是不断练习，尽管无聊，但你需要一直练习，把技能深深刻在你的神经中，让大脑在每个位置都知道怎么做。这是一种智力上的追求，大多数人并不会这么看待它，因为在动作中你需要管理自己的思维，要处理压力，知道何时冲击，何时控制位置和恢复。训练中的很多内容都适用于你生活中几乎所有会遭遇的压力情况，而且你也因此获得一种可以保护自己的技能。我不是说杀人是件好事，请明确这一点。

Paragraph 2: I'm definitely not but I'm saying it's a good thing too if someone's trying to kill you and they absolutely can't because you could kill them easy that's way better the way better situation to be in yeah no it's it's great I mean it's done it's open a lot of how I think about stuff I mean it's it is just interesting when you're point about like having a pill that allows you to just kind of know that you have this kind of physical ability it's um it's a superpower it's it's interesting because I do think a lot of our society has become very like I don't know I don't even know the right word for it but it's like it kind of like new dirt or like emasculated and it's there's like a whole energy in this that I think it's it is very healthy in the right balance um I mean I think part of the reason you know whatever one of the things that I enjoy about it is I feel like I can just like express myself right it's like when you're running a company people typically don't want to see you being like this ruthless person who's like just like I'm just gonna like crush the people I'm competing with but like

翻译如下： 当然我不是在说那样，但我觉得这也是件好事，如果有人想杀你，而他们绝对办不到，因为你可以轻松地对付他们，那是好得多的情况。是的，这真是太好了，我的意思是这让我对事情的思考方式更加开阔。关于服用一种药丸让你知道自己拥有这种身体能力的想法真的很有趣。这是一种超能力，因为我确实觉得我们社会已经变得非常……我不知道该用什么词，但就像那种新式的、无力化的感觉。在这种事情里有一种能量，我认为在适当的平衡中，这是非常健康的。我觉得我喜欢它的一部分原因是，我感觉可以更真实地表达自己。比如当你经营一家公司时，人们通常不希望你表现得像个无情的人，像是想要压倒竞争对手似的，但……

Paragraph 1: but when you're fighting it's like no no that's like so I think it's some worded I think in some ways when people see me competing in this sport they're like oh no that's the real mark it's like because it goes back to the all the media training stuff we were talking about when I'm going and giving my sound bites for two minutes it's like no it's like fuck that guy it's like that's the real one it's but um well you definitely got a lot of respect in the martial arts community people got super excited that you were so involved in it and so interested in it because anytime someone like yourself or like Tom Hardy or anyone like wow that guy's into it like wow anytime something like that happens there's like some new person who's a prominent person a very smart person it's really interesting in it we all get very excited because we're like oh it's a very welcoming community super I think there's a lot of sports that are like nah we don't want it's not a jock community yeah it's super kind yeah like jujitsu people in particular there's some of the nicest people those my friends forever you know they'll be my friends for life yeah yeah no it's it's a good career I mean when I got heard I really kind of missed the guys I trained with it's like Davis put together this group it's basically these like all these young pro fighters who are kind of like up and coming like kind of early 20s but they've only been doing it for a few years so like I've been doing it for for a few years that way it's like we kind of have a more similar level of skill and they're all better than me but like but in terms of I'm like that was in my late 30s and they're in the early 20s it was sort of like they're kind of becoming into becoming men I'm like sort of at the end of my physical week but it's like it's um it's uh it's it's a really good crew um yeah no it's a good crew and the competing thing is fun I can't wait to get back to that too

在打比赛时，我感受到真正的自我。有时人们看到我在这个运动中竞争时，他们会觉得“哦，那才是真正的我”，因为这和我们所讨论的所有媒体训练背道而驰。当我接受采访讲两分钟的台词时，内心其实是在反对那些。这种真实的自我在武术界获得了很多尊重，人们对我参与并对这项运动产生浓厚兴趣感到无比兴奋。每当有像我，或像汤姆·哈迪这样的人对这个感兴趣时，大家都会很激动，因为这是一个包容性很强的社区。很多运动可能会对新人有排斥感，但这个社区特别友好，尤其是柔术圈子，他们中的人非常好，会是我一生的朋友。 这个职业确实不错，我受伤时，非常想念和我一起训练的伙伴。戴维斯组建了一个团队，基本上是由一群20岁出头的年轻职业选手组成，他们刚练习几年，就像我当时也是练了几年。尽管他们的技术都比我强，但我们还是在同一水平。他们在二十出头的年纪中逐渐成长为男人，而我已步入身体状况的末期，但这真的是个很棒的团队。参加比赛很有趣，我迫不及待想再次回到赛场。

Paragraph 1: I mean it's like basically I mean I was also doing it was so it's basically some a group of pro fighters and then a handful of meta executives would do it and and basically we would just kind of like fight each other and it would be fun and and um and then one of them decided one day that they were they're like you know I think I'm getting pretty good at you Jitsu I'm gonna go to a tournament and I was like all right good luck with that bro like I'm not going to I'm not gonna go to tournament it's like like I don't like I don't want to go to a tournament and get him get embarrassed it's like like but then the guy goes to the tournament he like does pretty well like that guy it's like it's like okay it's like we go all the time and like and if he's doing well in a tournament that's like I had fine sign me up right it's like it's I mean it's just like super competitive so this was like one was this it must have been I don't know I guess I rolled into this tournament and I registered under my first and middle name so people didn't know who who I was and I had like sunglasses and a hat and I wore a covid mask and like and I and basically was like it wasn't until the called our names to step onto the mat that I was like all right take all the stuff off and the guy was like oh what that's kind of a cheat code I mean yeah kind of freak out I think he's trying to figure out what was going on afterwards his his coach was like he's like I think that was Mark Zuckerberg who just submitted me and the coach was like no no no no way then it's like no I think that was I was like what you're fighting Mark Zuckerberg to get back in there it's like get go find him he's like no he just submitted me it's that's very funny yeah man well Tom Hardy's doing that too right he's done multiple tournaments now yeah no I think I think um yeah I yeah I I can't wait to get back to competing it's been it's been sort of a slow journey on the the rehab it's sort of like learning twice but but we're getting there far out are you oh no I'm done with the rehab now I'm just ramping how far are you from surgery um 12 12 months 13 months so you did the patella 10 in graft right I did yeah yeah that's a rough one to come back from yeah I did uh the patella 10 in graft for my left knee and it took me about a year I did the ACL from a cadaver it's actually they use an Achilles tendon for my cadaver on my right knee and I was back to jujitsu in six months like full confidence in six months I was I was just one hundred percent recovered kicking the bag everything nice yeah yeah how how how old were you and you got those the first one I was 26 the second one I was 31 32 somewhere around there also so young

段落 1 中文翻译： 基本上，就是我和一群职业拳手以及一些Meta高管组团对抗。我们会互相较量，感觉很有趣。然后有一天，其中一个人决定参加一个比赛，他觉得自己的柔术水平挺不错的。我跟他说，“祝好运，兄弟，”但我自己不打算去。我不想去比赛然后出丑。然而，这个人去比赛并且表现不错。大家常去比，到他比赛表现也不错时，我心想，那好吧，给我也报名。比赛非常激烈。那是在什么时候呢？我不太记得了。我参加比赛的时候是用我的名字和中间名注册的，所以大家不知道我是谁。我戴着墨镜、帽子和口罩，直到被叫到上垫子时才脱掉东西。然后对手有些慌了，赛后他的教练问“刚才是不是被Mark Zuckerberg撂倒了？”教练还不相信。他说，“你跟Mark Zuckerberg打架吗？继续找他较量吧。”对手回答说，“不，他刚刚战胜了我。”真的很有意思。对吧？Tom Hardy现在也在做这事，他参加了多次比赛。我迫不及待想重新参加比赛，不过恢复的过程比较缓慢。有点像重新学习，但我们在进步。哦，你手术后多久？12到13个月。你做的髌骨腱移植吧？是的，很难恢复。我左膝做了髌骨腱移植，花了一年时间。右膝用了尸体供体的跟腱，六个月就完全恢复了柔术，信心十足。那你受伤时多大？第一次26岁，第二次31或32岁，还挺年轻的。

Paragraph 1: yeah so my my doctor is basically like look you're at the you're like at the boundary you could go either way but if you want to compete again then I'd recommend doing the patella yeah I know they say that I don't agree with that I mean just from my own personal experience my doctor told me that the ACL from a cadaver when they use the patella 10 in graft is 150 stronger than your natural ACL he said you'll be back to because I didn't have any meniscus damage in my right knee he's like you'll be back to 100 I have a lot of meniscus damage on my left knee unfortunately which is also part of the problem with the recovery of that one but the uh patella 10 in graft the bone on the kneecap was painful forever in terms of like getting on my knees like training for my knees doing doing certain positions and even just stretching like you know putting my knees on the ground sitting on my heels and then laying back it was fucking painful it took forever to break all that scar tissue up and now it's fine it's fine now yeah I mean it's a long time ago

好的，我的医生基本上是这样说的：你目前处于一个边缘状态，可以向任何一个方向发展，但如果你想再次比赛，我建议你使用髌骨方法。虽然通常的说法是这样，但我不太同意。我根据自己的经历，医生告诉我，当使用髌骨腱移植时，来自尸体的ACL韧带比自然的ACL强150%。他说因为我右膝没有半月板损伤，所以我会恢复到100%。不过，我左膝有很多半月板损伤，这也导致了这个膝盖恢复起来问题比较大。髌骨腱移植中，膝盖骨的部分一直都是痛的，尤其是在训练时或者做一些特定姿势时，比如跪在地上坐在脚跟上然后往后仰，整个过程痛得让人受不了。打散那些瘢痕组织花了很长时间，不过现在已经没事了。这都是很久以前的事了。

Paragraph 2: yeah I can kind of do everything that I want at this point it's still like a little sore but I don't know I think that it's supposed to be a couple years until you like feel like it's fully I think it takes some time for the nerves to grow into it and all that did you incorporate peptides in your recovery I didn't um do you hate healing do I hate healing no I didn't use peptides I don't know I just took my doctor's advice on it but don't do that anymore I mean next time there's other people to talk to yeah yeah I mean it's going pretty well it's gone I'm sure it goes pretty well it would go quicker with the tides yeah 100 percent for sure but it's been this interesting opportunity to like like I really don't want that to happen again so I I feel like I'm so much more focused on technique like the first time that I learned all the stuff I was like I was probably like a little too british about it and just like muscling through stuff and now um I don't know now I feel like I'm like really learning how to do the stuff correctly and I can do it way more effortlessly so it's it's the goal

第二段： 是的，现在我基本上能做我想做的任何事情，虽然还有点酸痛。我不太确定，但我觉得可能需要几年，你才会觉得完全康复。我觉得神经需要时间去重新连接等等。你有没有在康复过程中使用肽类物质？我没有。你讨厌康复过程吗？我不讨厌康复。我没有用肽类物质，只是听医生的建议，不过以后不会再这样了。我是说下次可以多跟其他人聊聊。是的，情况还不错。我相信用肽类物质情况会更快改善，确实是这样。但这也是个有趣的机会，我真的不希望这种情况再发生，所以我现在更加专注于技巧。第一次学习这些东西时，我可能太过于通过蛮力解决问题了。现在，我觉得我在真正学会正确地去做这些事情，而且可以做得更加轻松。这就是目标。

Paragraph 1: how did it pop how did it pop I was I was like the end of a session和议 and um through two hours into training and I was doing like a few rounds and um and I basically threw a leg kick and the other guy went to check it and I like leaned back to try to get around the check and just put too much torque on my knee um so it was the planted leg but um my mom was planted leg too yeah but it's I don't know Dave was like you know before that round Dave was like you're done I'm like not one more round it's an issue too tired as well yeah and I and I basically and I hadn't um you know I basically had also just done a really hard kind of like leg workout the day before but I don't think the the fight guys didn't know that so I I really just pushed it too hard are you aware of uh knees over toes guy yeah have you done his stuff I've looked at it a bunch I mean the rehab thing I took really seriously I thought that was pretty interesting too it's um I don't want to like have to do a lot of rehabs like this one but to do one of them I actually thought was a pretty interesting experience because it's like week over week you're just getting back so much mobility and and ability to do stuff and yeah um no I feel like I'm um I don't know at this point I just like like probably half my weight training is is effectively kind of like rehab and joint health stuff like wrists shoulders knee all that in addition to the big muscle groups yeah that's very smart the knee over toes guy stuff is particularly effective because it all comes from a guy that had a series of pretty catastrophic knee injuries and was plagued with weak knees his whole life and then developed a bunch of different methods to strengthen all the supporting muscles around the knee that are really extraordinary everything from Nordic curls do you do those do you do Nordic curls um I should I should do more than I do yeah leg curls Nordic curls but Nordic curls in particular because you know you it's very difficult to do your yeah you lift your whole body up with your hamstrings yeah um and all these different slant board squats and different lunges and split squats and all these different things which like really strengthen up all the supporting muscles around the knee better than anything that I've ever tried before and he's got like a whole program where it scales up and he puts it online for everybody yeah and he gives away a lot of information for free because he said look when I was 11 years old I wish I had access to this so I'm gonna put it out there for everybody hmm great guy hmm yeah cool but I can't recommend that stuff enough but I think what you're doing is like strengthening shoulders strengthening that's really the way to do it like you have to think of muscles in terms of like armor you know if you want to do this thing you know it's better to have good bumpers around your car if you might bump into other cars you know you don't want to just have raw sheet metal you know

段落1: 那是怎么发生的？我当时在进行一场训练课的结束阶段，已经训练了两个小时。我当时在进行几轮练习，然后我踢了一记腿踢，而另一个人试图挡住它。我向后倾身试图绕过对方的防守，但对自己的膝盖施加了太多的扭力。虽然是支撑腿，但我妈那次也是支撑腿出问题。不过，我不知道，那个名叫Dave的人在那一回合前就说我该停了，但我坚持再来一轮，因为我觉得问题不大也不累。而且我前一天也刚进行了一次非常费力的腿部训练，我想拳击那帮人并不知道这个。所以，我的确是推得太猛了。你了解过“膝盖过脚趾”的那位吗？你有做过他的训练吗？我看过很多有关他的资料，康复训练我非常认真地对待。我发现他的方法相当有趣，因为每个星期你都会逐渐恢复很多活动能力，不需要像这样反复康复太多次。现在我觉得，我的训练中，大概有一半是针对恢复和关节健康的，比如手腕、肩膀和膝盖，除此之外还有大肌群的训练。这是很聪明的做法。“膝盖过脚趾”那位的方法特别有效，因为他本人曾遭受过一系列严重的膝盖伤病，一生中都伴随着膝盖虚弱的问题，然后他开发出了一些加强膝盖周围辅助肌肉的方法，这些方法真的很了不起，包括北欧腿弯举等。你做过北欧腿弯举吗？我应该做得更多。北欧腿弯举特别困难，因为你需要用大腿后侧把整个身体抬起来，还有各种斜板深蹲、箭步蹲和分腿蹲等等，这些都比我尝试过的任何其他方法更能加强膝盖周围的辅助肌肉。他有一个完整的训练计划，在线上免费分享了很多信息，他说：“当我11岁的时候，我希望有这样的资源，所以我把它分享给大家。” 真是一位很棒的人。我非常推荐他的训练方法，但我认为你正在做的肩膀强化训练也很正确。你需要把肌肉视为一种护甲。想要做好这些事情，你就需要给自己的车装上好缓冲器，以防撞到其他车。总不能用裸露的金属车身去冒险。

Paragraph 1: yeah yeah yeah and I think a lot of people just focus on like the big movements and weight training and it's I don't know first of all for like a lot of fighting type stuff you you kind of want to be loose and like not super tight so um but yeah I mean I just think like the joint stability stuff is you get older and I want to do this for a longer period of time it's good to do yeah it's huge it's um mobility in general it's just like so important you compete in jujitsu for a long time there's like all these masters divisions and stuff and yes you know those old crazy looking 70 year old dudes trying to kill each other yeah it's nuts it's great it is great but for real sincerely we're very happy the the I think I can speak rarely do but I think I can speak for the martial arts community we're very happy you're bored it just it makes it it makes it fun that someone is you know a prominent intellectual very intelligent person who's really gotten fascinated by it because it does help to kill that sort of knuckle-dragger perspective that a lot of people have about the sport no I think it's super intellectual in terms of actually breaking this stuff down I mean both jujitsu and like striking I mean yeah you don't have time to think but like the reasoning behind why you kind of want to slip in certain ways and like the probability game that you're playing is um I don't know I used to fence when I was in high school and I did that pretty competitively I was never like quite good enough to be like at the olympic level but I was pretty good and um we virtual fenced last time you were here yeah there you go

是的，是的，我认为很多人只关注力量训练中的大动作。但在许多格斗类型中，你实际上需要的是保持放松而不是过于紧绷。而且，随着年龄的增长，关节的稳定性变得更加重要，你希望能长时间从事这些活动，保持良好的身体灵活性是非常关键的。 在柔术比赛中，有各种各样的老将组别，那些看起来很疯狂的70多岁的老家伙们拼命搏斗，这实在令人惊叹。这很棒。坦率地讲，我们非常高兴，能有一位杰出的知识分子对这项运动产生了浓厚的兴趣，这确实有助于消除人们对这项运动的一些刻板偏见。 实际上，我认为这项运动非常需要智力上的分析，包括柔术和打击技巧。虽然在实战中没有太多时间去思考，但了解每个动作背后的逻辑和对于各种可能性的分析是必要的。我以前在高中时练习击剑，虽然没达到奥运水平，但成绩不错。上次你来的时候，我们还进行了一次虚拟击剑比赛呢。

Paragraph 2: and and like I you know I just remember I would like sit in my classes in high school and like sketch out combinations of moves and sequences for how to like faint and like and kind of trick someone to get them out of position to be able to tap them and it's uh I feel like this is like a game in the same way right it's like I mean I think when you're training you're not like slugging at each other that much you're just like you're you know playing tag yeah you're playing tag well the way the ties do it I think is the best and they're obviously some of the best fighters ever they fight a lot which is one of the reasons why they train the way they train but when you talk to people that train over there they're like you learn so much more when you're playing you know when you're doing it where you're not trying to hurt each other you know then you really do learn the technique like and it gets fully ingrained in your system yeah it's great yeah you just have to be careful brain damage like you were talking about having an MMA fighter you're still entertaining that I I want to I mean this is my thing it's like and I think I probably will but we'll we'll see I mean it's 2025 I think it's going to be a very busy year on the AI side

第2段： 我记得在高中时，我常常在课堂上画出一些动作组合和序列，想出如何通过假动作和小伎俩让对手位置失误，然后抓住机会。这就像是一种游戏，你知道，训练的时候并不是在互相打斗，而更像是在玩“抓人”，就像泰国人训练的方式，他们是一些最出色的战士之一。他们之所以这样训练，是因为他们打了很多比赛，但当你与那些在那里训练的人交谈时，他们会说当你在不试图伤害对方的情况下进行训练时，你会学到更多。这样技术才能真正融入你的系统。这很棒，只是要小心脑损伤的问题。比如你提到你有个MMA（综合格斗）拳击手，你还在考虑这个。我的想法是，我可能会去尝试，但2025年在人工智能领域会是非常忙碌的一年，我们看看会发生什么。

Paragraph 1: yeah and I don't like I think the idea of having a competition you really need to like get into the headspace of like I'm going to fight someone this week and um so I need to I need to figure this out because I don't I don't know how with everything that's going on in AI I'm gonna have like a week or two where I can just get into this like I'm gonna go fight someone but but it's good it's good training but and I would like to at some point um you know the thing about the ACL injury is I kind of thought before this like all right I'm gonna do some Jiu Jitsu competitions I want to do one MMA fight like one kind of like pro or competitive MMA fight and then I figured I'd go back to Jiu Jitsu but I think tearing the ACL striking is a little more of a fluke but I think you're much more likely to do that grappling so going through the ACL experience didn't make me want to like just exclusively go do the version where you're just attacking joints all day long right so like all right I can take a few more punches to the face before we go back to that you can hurt yourself doing both of them you know there's really no rhyme or reason I blew my left ACL kickboxing my right ACL Jiu Jitsu okay and so you can opportunity yeah I mean this this like Tom Aspenol famously blew his out against Curtis Blades with a supporting leg just through a kick and his freak accidents yeah weird things happen um you're it's a lot of explosive force with striking and sometimes that tears things more than slow controlled movements of Jiu Jitsu especially if you have good training partners yeah but Jiu Jitsu isn't always slower controlled no especially when you're competing no especially when you're competing unless you're really really good like if you ever watch Gordon like Gordon never moves fast he doesn't have to he doesn't have to move fast he's just like always a step ahead of everybody yeah if you talk to him at all oh yeah did you talk to John Donnerher um no I haven't he just talked

翻译第1段： 对，我觉得要参加比赛的话，真的需要进入一种心理状态，比如“这周我要和某人打斗了”，所以我需要弄清楚这一点，因为在人工智能的各种事情忙得不可开交的情况下，我不知道如何抽出一两周时间专心进入这种“我要去跟人打斗”的状态。不过，这确实是不错的训练。我曾想过有一天要参加一些柔术比赛，也想进行一场MMA比赛，一场专业或是竞技类的MMA比赛，然后再回到柔术上。但我认为撕裂前交叉韧带（ACL）时的打击只是一种偶然，然而在摔跤中更容易这样。所以经历了ACL的问题后，我不太想一直进行那些整天攻击关节的比赛。好吧，我觉得在我们回到那之前，我可以多承受几拳。两项运动都会让你受伤，这根本没有规律可循。我在踢拳时伤了左ACL，在柔术中伤了右ACL。比如，Tom Aspinall在对Curtis Blaydes的一场比赛中意外扭伤支撑腿，就是因为踢腿，也算是一种意外。打击时有大量爆发力，有时比柔术中的缓慢、可控的动作更容易造成撕裂，尤其是在你有良好的训练伙伴时。但是，柔术并不总是缓慢和可控的，尤其是在比赛时，除非你真的非常优秀。比如你看Gordon的比赛，他从来不快速移动，因为他不需要。他总是领先一步。你和他聊过天吗？哦，对了，你有没有和约翰·丹娜赫谈过？没有，我没有和他谈过。

Paragraph 2: yeah and I would be interested that's the greatest mind in combat sports now Gordon I don't I don't say that lightly John Donnerher is the greatest mind in combat sports interesting by far he's a legitimate genius you know the whole story right the guy was a professor of philosophy at Stanford and just just or Columbia where was he I forget the Columbia I think Columbia and then decides uh oh I'm just gonna teach Jiu Jitsu all day sleeps on the mats teaches all day long you know where's a rash guard anywhere he goes a freak and he's so fucking smart like scary smart about all kinds of things it's not just Jiu Jitsu you know he's got a memory like a steel vice like he just holds on to thoughts and can repeat them his recalls and same he's just a legitimate genius that became obsessed with Jiu Jitsu and what he's done with Gordon and with Gary Tonen and you know just a series of other athletes is nothing short of extraordinary you know just an interesting guy to have conversations with too if you've seen him on Lex's show he's done a couple episodes yeah yeah and I watched I saw the one that you did with him yeah love the guy yeah I mean again happy there's someone like that that out there because when people have these ideas of what martial arts are and then you see a guy like that and you're like okay why I might have to rethink this

当然，我对这个问题感兴趣，因为戈登现在被认为是格斗运动领域中最聪明的人，我这样说并不是轻率的。John Donnerher 是格斗运动中最伟大的头脑，无疑是一个真正的天才。你知道他的故事吧？这个家伙曾经是斯坦福大学还是哥伦比亚大学的一名哲学教授，我记得是哥伦比亚大学，然后他决定每天教授柔术，整天都在榻榻米上睡觉和教学，甚至随时穿着防摩擦衫，简直是个怪咖。他非常聪明，对各种事情的理解到了可怕的地步，不仅仅是柔术。他的记忆力像钢钳一样牢固，能够牢牢记住并复述内容。他是一个真正的天才，因对柔术的痴迷而改变了人生。他对戈登、加里·托能以及其他一系列运动员所做的事情简直是非凡的。如果你在 Lex 的节目上见过他，你会发现他是一个很有趣的人，喜欢与人交谈。我看过你和他一起做的那一集，我也很喜欢他。很高兴这个世界上有这样的人存在，因为当人们对武术有一定的看法时，看到这样一个人就会让你觉得或许需要重新思考这些观点。

Paragraph 1: yeah there's a there's a whole spectrum of people yeah yeah what is it done in terms of a lot of one of the things that a lot of people said and I have to like nothing turns you into a libertarian quicker than Jiu Jitsu why that is I think it's a hard work thing it's cutting out all the bullshit and realizing how much of the things that we take as real things are just excuses and bullshit and weakness and just procrastinate there's a lot of things that we have that exist especially in like the business world and the corporate world and the education world that are just bullshit and they don't really have to be there and they're only there to try to make up for hard work yeah yeah I don't know I mean it's kind of just what I what I was saying before I think the for me it's uh just I think a lot of a corporate world is is like pretty culturally neutered and and I just think like having you know I grew up I have three sisters no brothers I have three daughters no sons so I'm like surrounded by girls and women like my my whole life and it's like so I think um I don't know there's just something the the kind of masculine energy I think is is good yeah obviously you know society has plenty of that but but I think corporate culture was really like trying to get away from it and I do think that there's just something it's like I don't know these all these forms of energy are good and I think having a culture that like celebrates the aggression a bit more has its own merits that are really positive um and that's that has been that has been a kind of a positive experience for me just like having a thing that I can just like do with my guy friends and like yeah and it's just like we're just like beat each other a bit it's good good I agree it's good it just I could see your point though about yeah corporate culture how when do you think that happened was that a slow shift because I think it used to be very masculine and I used to be the thing it was kind of hyper aggressive at one point

第1段: 在这个社会上，人们的类型多种多样。有件事很多人都提到过，就是没有什么比柔术更快地让人成为一个自由意志主义者。我认为这可能与努力工作有关，它能帮助人们摒弃各种借口、借口、虚弱和拖延，让人意识到许多我们认为的现实，其实都是虚假的，尤其是在商业、企业和教育领域，很多东西其实并不必要，它们只是为了解决不愿努力的问题。我自己也有同感。我出生在一个姐姐妹妹众多的家庭，没有兄弟，自己也有三个女儿，没有儿子，所以我的生活中充满了女性。我觉得，某种男性气概的能量是好的，尽管社会中这类能量已经不少，但企业文化似乎在尽力摆脱它。不过，我觉得让文化稍微接受一点攻击性也是有积极意义的。对我来说，跟我的男性朋友一起做点什么，偶尔相互切磋一下，这种体验是很积极的。我同意这种想法，不过我也理解你对企业文化的看法。你认为这是逐渐改变的吗？我觉得企业文化曾经是非常男性化和极具攻击性的。

Paragraph 1: no and look and I think part of the the intent on all these things I think is good right it's I like I do think that if you're a woman going into a company it probably feels like it's too masculine right there isn't enough of the kind of the energy that that that you may naturally have and it probably feels like there are all these things that are set up that are biased against you and that's not good either because you want you want women to be able to succeed and right and like have companies that can unlock all the value from having great people no matter in what their background or gender you know but but I think these things can always go a little far and I think it's one thing to say we want to be kind of like welcoming and make a good environment for everyone and I think it's another to basically say that masculinity is bad and I just think we kind of swung culturally to that part of the the kind of the spectrum where you know it's all like okay masculinity is toxic we have to like get rid of it completely it's like no like it's both of these things are good right it's like you want like feminine energy you want masculine energy like I think that that's like you're gonna have parts of society that have more of one or the other I think that that's all good but um but I do think the corporate culture sort of had swung towards being this somewhat more neutered thing and I didn't really feel that until I got involved in martial arts which I think is still a more much more masculine culture and so and not that it doesn't try to be inclusive in its own way but but I think that there's just a lot more of that energy there and I just kind of realized it's like oh well that's how you become successful at martial arts you have to be at least somewhat aggressive yeah so

第1段：我认为，对于所有这些事情的初衷都是好的。如果你作为一名女性进入一家公司，可能会觉得那个环境太过男性化，缺乏那些你或许自然有所拥有的能量，感觉上很多事情可能对你不利。这显然是不好的，因为我们希望女性能够成功，并且公司能够充分利用那些出色的人才，不论他们的背景或性别。但是，我觉得这些努力有时可能会走得太远。一方面，我们希望营造一个欢迎且对每个人友好的环境；另一方面，也不能简单地认为男性气质就是不好的。我们在文化上有点过于偏向一种观点，认为男性气质是有毒的，必须完全消除。其实不是这样的，女性气质和男性气质都是有益的。在社会中，你需要两者并存。在公司文化中，我感到它变得更加中性化，而我在参与武术锻炼后才意识到这点。武术仍然是一种更具男性气质的文化，并不是说它没有尝试以自己的方式包容各种人，但这种能量在那里更为强烈。我意识到在武术中要想成功，你必须至少具备某种程度的进取心。

Paragraph 1: but but yeah I mean there are these things there are like a few of these things throughout your life where you just you have an experience and you're like where is this been my whole life and it just like it just turned on like a part of my brain that I was like okay yeah like this was this was a piece of the puzzle that should have been there and I'm glad it now is that I felt that way when I started hunting oh yeah hunting too yeah same thing you've so you've done a lot of as well yeah well so I mean we have this ranch out in Kauai and there's invasive pigs and we on our ranch we have um there's a lot of albatross I don't know if they're endangered or just threatened and then there's the Hawaiian state bird the the nae nae goose is um that's I think endangered or or at least was until recently and like most of them in the world live in a small stretch um or at least most of them on Kauai live in a small stretch that includes our ranch so you constantly have these pigs that are just like multiply so quickly and we basically have to apply pressure to the population or else they just get overrun and threaten the birds and the other wildlife and so and what I basically explained to my daughters who I also want to learn how to do this because I just feel like it's like look we we have this land we take care of it just like you mow the grass we need to make sure that these populations are in check it's part of what we do there's like the stewards of this and we've got to do it and then if you if you have to kill something then you should you know obviously treat it with respect and you know use the the meat to to make food and and and and kind of celebrate in that way but it's it's a culture that I think it's um it's just an important thing for kids to grow up understanding like the circle of life right so you know teaching like teaching the kids all of you know what is is kind of yeah how you'd run a ranch how you'd run a farm um I think that that stuff it's good I mean because you know explaining to the kids what a tech company is is really abstract right so for a while my daughters were pretty convinced that my actual job was Mark's Meats which is our um our kind of ranch and like the cattle that we that we ranch um I was like well not quite and you'll learn when you get older but um

第1段中文翻译： 是的，我是说，在你的一生中总会有一些这样的事情，当你经历了这些事情时，你会觉得它们在哪里待了这么久，仿佛打开了我大脑中的某个部分，我意识到这是一块本该存在的拼图，我很高兴它现在存在了。当我开始打猎的时候，就有这样的感觉，对，没错，你也有过这样的经历。我们在考艾岛有一个牧场，那儿有入侵的野猪，还有很多信天翁。我不知道它们是濒危还是受威胁的物种。还有夏威夷州的州鸟——奈奈鹅，我认为它们是濒危物种，或者至少直到最近都是。在考艾岛上大多数的奈奈鹅都生活在一个小区域，包括我们的牧场。因此，我们经常面临着这些野猪，它们繁殖非常快，我们基本上需要控制它们的数量，否则会泛滥成灾，威胁到鸟类和其他野生动物。我跟我的女儿们解释，我希望她们也学习怎么做，因为我觉得这就像是我们拥有这片土地，我们需要照顾它，就像你割草一样，我们需要确保这些动物的数量得到控制，这是我们作为土地看护者的一部分责任。如果你不得不杀掉某个动物，你应该带着敬意去做，然后充分利用它的肉去做食物，以此来庆祝。这是一种文化，我认为让孩子们理解生命的循环是很重要的。告诉孩子们如何经营牧场或农场，这很好，因为告诉孩子们一个科技公司的运作真的很抽象。有段时间，我的女儿们相信我的实际工作是“马克的肉铺”，那是我们牧场和我们养的牛。但我告诉她们，这不完全是这样，等你们长大了就会明白。

Paragraph 2: but I think that there's something that's just like much more tangible about that than um you know taking them to the office and you know sitting in product reviews or something for for some like piece of software that we're writing well it's certainly a lot more primal yeah yeah and if you do wind up eating that meat from the animal and you were there why the animal died like you put it all together like oh this is where meat comes from yeah yeah yeah which is another reason why things have become sort of emasculated because that energy is not necessary anymore to acquire meat you know that used to be the other way that people got meat you had to go hunt it so you had to go actually pull the trigger kill the animal yourself cut it up butcher it cook it you knew what you were doing yeah well my favorite is Bo bone arrow and that's I think like the most that that feels like the most kind of sporting version of it yeah if you want to put it that way yeah I mean if you're just trying to get meat it's not the most effective the most effective is certainly a rifle but uh I prefer it because it's it requires more of you

第二段：我觉得捕猎比起在办公室参加产品评审，或者讨论我们正在编写的某个软件更加真实。这种体验的确更原始一些。如果你吃的是自己见证过猎杀过程的动物肉，你就会真正明白肉从哪里来。这也是为什么事情变得有些缺乏阳刚之气，因为现在获取肉不再需要那些精力。以前人们获取肉的方法不一样，你得去狩猎，亲自扣动扳机杀死动物，然后切割、分解、烹饪，你很清楚你在做什么。我最喜欢的是用弓箭，因为我觉得这是一种最有运动感的捕猎方式。如果只是想获取肉，步枪肯定是最有效的，但我更喜欢弓箭，因为它对捕猎者的要求更高。

Paragraph 3: yeah and you just kind of go and hang out and yeah and you have to be fit yeah especially if you're mountain hunting you have to be really fit yeah you can't just be kind of in shape you got to be really fit if you want to huff up the mountains and keep your heart rate at a certain level so that when you get to the top you can execute a shot calmly and then actually carry the thing out yeah and carry the thing out yeah yeah yeah no I I'm mostly mostly use a rifle just because it's so much more efficient um you know your conversion rate is so much higher but it's uh but yeah another what kind of boat do you have gosh I didn't get to do it this season but um do you know the company that makes it no not at the top of my head I have to know yeah no this is embarrassing this is embarrassing um I can get you hooked up yeah it works okay you know how old it is no it's it's not old okay I think it's it's like a just a compound bow that I got strung to my draw length and did you get someone to coach you

翻译成中文： 是的，你就这样去和朋友们闲逛，对，尤其是如果你在山里打猎，你必须要身体很好。对，你不光是需要有点健壮，而是要真的很强壮。如果你想爬上山顶，还要保持心跳在一定水平，这样到了山顶时才能冷静地射击，然后还得把猎物带下来。对，对，我大多用步枪，因为这样更有效率，你知道，成功率更高。但是，嗯，你有哪种弓？哎呀，我这季没能用上。你知道是哪家公司生产的吗？不，我一下子想不起来了，我得去查一下。是啊，这有点尴尬。呃，我可以帮你联系一下。行吗？你知道它多老吗？不，它不算老。我想就是一张按我拉弦长度调好的复合弓。你有请人指导你吗？

Paragraph 1: yeah yeah yeah who coached you um it's basically a bunch of the guys who who um you know help run security around the ranch okay yeah the thing about archery is just like martial arts uh one of the things that I learned when I was teaching is that it's way easier to teach someone that knows nothing than to teach someone who learned something incorrectly the people who learned something incorrectly the moment um things got tense and they panicked they went back to the old ways um because it's sort of ingrained in their system so archery one of the things that's very important is proper form and then proper execution uh especially having a surprise shot and learning how to have a surprise shot is what do you mean yeah surprise shot you don't know no no this is the thing um in high pressure situations one of the most important things is to have um a shot process where you don't know exactly when the arrow is going off you just have a process where you're pulling through the shot and the shot breaks so it's a surprise shot so you put the pin on the target I use a thumb trigger I use a I use a thing called an on X clicker and the reason why I use the on X clicker is like a hinge it gives you a two stage of the trigger right so as I'm at full draw I put slight pressure on the here click and that click means it's ready to go off with more pressure so I've gone through stage one now stage two is just concentrating on the shot process and knowing it's going to break and then there's no flinching there's no tweet there's no there's no the thing that people do when they have a finger trigger they they twitch because your your body is anticipating the shock of the bow and when you're doing that you can be off by six inches four inches five inches all over the place because you're moving you're moving while you're you're shooting when you're doing it with a rifle it's very different because obviously a rifle is far faster

第一段： 是的，是的，是的，谁教你的？嗯，主要是一群帮助管理牧场安全的家伙。好的，关于射箭，它就像武术一样，我在教课时学到的一点是，教完全不了解的人比教那些学错了的人要容易得多。那些学错了的人在紧张和慌乱时，会回到旧的习惯，因为那已经根深蒂固在他们的系统中了。射箭中非常重要的一点是正确的姿势和执行，尤其是学习如何做出“意外的射击”。“意外的射击”是什么意思？你不知道，这就是问题所在。在高压情况下，最重要的事情之一是拥有一个你无法准确预测箭何时射出的射击过程。你只是按照步骤进行，当箭射出时是真正的意外。在瞄准目标时，我使用大拇指触发器，我用的是一种叫做On X的装置。使用On X装置的原因是它像一个铰链，给你两个阶段的触发。拉满弓时，我在这里施加轻微的压力，听到“咔哒”声，这意味着只要施加更大的压力就可以射出。所以我已经完成了第一阶段，现在第二阶段就是专注于射击过程，知道箭会射出，而不会再有抖动或紧张的情况。使用手指触发器的人在射箭时身体会有一个预期反应，这可能导致射偏四到六英寸，因为你在射箭时身体在移动。用步枪射击完全不同，因为显然步枪的速度快得多。

Paragraph 2: yeah and then you have a scope so you know you're zoomed in many magnifications and all you have to do is just slowly squeeze and if you're smart you'll be prone or you'll have your rifle rested on a tripod or something where you have a good steady it's much easier with a bow it's very different because you're holding it with your arms so you have to have the proper form you have to have the proper posture and then there's this thought process and my friend Joel Turner who is a sniper created a whole system for people called shot IQ he's got this whole online system of developing the proper execution of a shot when you see like tournament archers when they go to Vegas so what a Vegas tournament is you have three targets and they have to shoot 30 arrows at a time so they shoot 10 in this one 10 and that one 10 in this one and the really good archers score an X every time so in that they're in the center or closest center they're hitting the 10 ring every arrow for 30 arrows in a row and there's round after round another 30 hours with new people another 30 and if you miss slightly you get a nine that's it you're done because all these other guys are not going to get a nine very rarely will they you know so most it's the most tens that you can get and the best way to do that is with a surprise shot so these guys have like these long stabilizers on their bow where they keep it totally steady and it's all just about relaxing and most of them use a hinge release so a hinge you know what a hinge is have you ever used one okay instead of a button you press it you're rotating the hinge which activates a sear I just have a trigger yeah

段落2： 是的，然后你有一个瞄准镜，所以你知道你已经放大了很多倍，所有你需要做的就是慢慢扣动扳机。如果你聪明的话，你会趴下来，或者把枪放在三脚架或其他稳定的东西上，这样会稳得多。使用弓箭则截然不同，因为你是用手臂来支撑，所以你必须保持正确的姿势和形态。此外，这也涉及到一种思维方式。我的朋友Joel Turner是一名狙击手，他创建了一个叫做Shot IQ的系统，这是一个关于如何正确完成射击的在线学习系统。在拉斯维加斯的射箭比赛中，你会看到比赛的射箭手。比赛的规则是，有三个靶，每个靶要射30支箭，所以每个靶分别射10支。顶尖的射手每次都能射中X，即每支箭都在靶中心或最接近中心的位置，连续射中30次，而比赛一轮接着一轮地进行，如果你稍有失误打出9环，那就结束了，因为其他射手很少会打出9环。他们大多数都能打出最多的10环。实现这一目标的最佳方法是一种意外性射击，所以这些射手会在弓上装上长的稳定器，使弓保持完全稳定，关键就是要放松。他们大多数使用铰链式释放器。你知道铰链是什么吗？有没有用过？这种释放器不是按按钮，而是通过旋转铰链来激活击发装置。我用的只是一个触发器。

Paragraph 1: yeah yeah so you're just hammering the trigger you're doing exactly not supposed to do it you're a trigger puncher yeah you're a trigger puncher you're thumb yeah you're you're hitting it with your thumb right uh-huh yeah I guarantee you when you do it your arm doesn't move huh you go like this huh like that so with a good surprise shot you shouldn't know it's gonna go off you're pulling and then once the trigger breaks off your arm will naturally go backwards huh because you're not anticipating the shot I'm definitely not doing that

第1段翻译： 对对，所以你只是反复按下扳机，做了你不该做的事情，你是个“扳机猛按者”。是的，你用大拇指按，对吧？嗯，我敢肯定，在你这样做的时候，你的手臂没有移动，对吧？你的动作是这样的，对吧？所以说，一个好的意外射击应该是你不知道它什么时候会射出子弹，你只是拉扳机，然后当扳机扣动时，你的手臂会自然向后，因为你没有预期到射击。我绝对没有像那样做。

Paragraph 2: yeah see that's the thing you know how far away are you shooting things from it depends um that elk out there the photograph that's in the front that one I shot it's uh in the front of the building when you walk in before you go into the studio there's a mounted head and then a photograph for me and my friend cam that one was sixty seven yards um I shot one at seventy nine yards ones but that's rare most of the time it's like for me my effective range my like where I'd like to be is sixty yards and in yeah because I was gonna say I don't think I've ever shot something more than 50 yards out yeah it's hard

第二段： 是的，你知道这就是问题所在，你距离目标有多远？这取决于情况。那只麋鹿，前面照片中的那只，是我拍的。就在你进入工作室之前，建筑物前面有一个装饰的鹿头，还有我和我的朋友Cam的合影。那次我是从67码的距离拍的，我也曾从79码的距离拍过一次，但那很少见。对我来说，我的有效射程或者我喜欢的射程是60码以内。是的，因为我想说，我好像从来没有从超过50码的距离拍过东西，确实很难。

Paragraph 3: yeah so so I think that really you know really your form has to be tight you have to be really confident you have to have a lot of arrows down range and then you have to be able to stay calm during the shot so now imagine if you're shooting something at 18 yards okay and you hammer the trigger a little bit of this little bit of that you're still gonna get there yeah right because it's only 18 yards so the the amount of deviation off the path that it takes in 18 yards is significantly different than the amount of deviation 105 yards it's a huge gap it might be two feet to the right yeah meanwhile you thought you were shooting accurately because you were inside of like a pie plate at 20 yards and the difference between that is form technique and a shot execution process and also management of the psychology of the shot because there's just one moment here it comes here it comes now and if you only do that once a year like say if you go on one big elk onto a year you save up all your money you get your gear already you get your arrows weighed you practice and then you're in the mountains for 10 days and on the 11th day you get this animal that moves is at 57 yards it stands there and you're like oh oh your heart's beating you just might hammer that trigger you just might hammer it so you have to have this shot process and where you you're literally talking to yourself inside your head you have words that you say that occupy your thoughts while you're going through the shot process so that you never get overcome by shot panic interesting because target panic is a giant thing in the archery community it's giant even saying it it's like saying Voldemort and it's like don't say it people don't want to say it it's like saying Candyman like people don't like it because it freaks people out like the they'll they some people can't keep their pin on the target they have to keep their pin below the target and then they raise it up to the target when it gets where the target is they hammer the trigger because they're just freaking out yeah have you ever experienced that

翻译第3段： 是的，我觉得你知道的，你的姿势一定要很稳，你要很自信，你要练习很多次射击，然后在射击时保持冷静。现在想象一下，如果你在18码的地方射击，稍微拉扯一下扳机，这点那点，你还是能射中目标，因为只有18码，所以在18码时偏离轨道的程度和在105码时相比有很大的不同。差距可能有两英尺那么远，你原以为在20码内的范围是精准的，但区别就在于射击的姿势、技术、射击执行过程和心理管理。射击时刻说来就来，如果你一年只狩猎一次，比如一年去打一次大麋鹿，存下钱准备好装备，称好箭，练习了好久，结果第11天在山里终于见到这只57码外站着的动物，你会觉得心跳加速，可能会慌张失手。所以你必须有一个射击流程，在心里对自己说一些话，这些话占据你的思绪，让你不会被射击恐慌压倒，很有趣的是，在射箭圈中，目标恐慌是个巨大的问题。提到它就像提到伏地魔一样，大家不愿说，就像说糖果人一样让人害怕。有些人甚至无法让瞄准点停留在目标上，他们必须把瞄准点放在目标下面，当瞄准点到达目标时，他们就会急忙扣动扳机，因为他们实在是太紧张了。你有过这样的经历吗？

Paragraph 1: i mean i've missed if that's you're asking i i haven't analyzed at this level of detail but no i mean there are a lot of borders on our ranch so i guess i don't get yeah and also like we have a range right and we um i don't know we set up bowling pins and you know it's like we shoot pistols at the bowling pins but i also like just like i i'm usually faster at taking down all the bowling pins with bow and arrow than most of my friends are with the pistol which i think is is is pretty fun but yeah no i was just more casual i'm clearly not doing it at your level and you've given me another uh side quest to maybe go deeper on but that's what i'm saying but i i'll take you on an elk hunt in the mountains yeah you'll get addicted i do think i do think the dynamic that you're talking about though where if you only see one animal on a multi-day then like that is just way higher stakes than anything i mean i it's not everything that you're doing because if you're really considering having an mma fight it's very similar because you're building up to this one moment sure sure i'm talking about the archery that i'm doing right i mean it's like i go out it's like okay we're gonna see some pegs and like and it's like if i don't if i don't hit any it's like my family's still eating it's okay right you know it's i'm not like you know but right yeah but if it's like martial arts is what i'm saying is like you really should learn it the right way from the beginning you can be fair i've clearly not learned this in a very rigorous way oh yeah yeah i can get people i posted a video on instagram once of me i think hitting bowling pins with archery and like all the comments are like man your form is shit so um so i think it checks out with the conversation that we're having now well the issue with that is that you're reading the comments like this you should never read comments that's fair that's fair i've never had anything good come out of reading comments yeah although i don't know it's pretty funny i think that just like getting the the gist and the summary of it i think is is is pretty funny yeah it's funny it's just not mentally healthy yeah no you can't spend too much time on it i don't spend any time on it yeah i i'm a much happier person since like it's like avoided comments yeah it's just too weird you just delving into the world of all these people's mental illness and screaming at people and just oh i don't i don't i don't want anything to do with it yeah but i mean i do read my friends comments and when even they're like man that's ugly like that's i do that i do that and i shouldn't do that but i definitely don't send them to them hey bro do you see this those guys are the worst guys little send things to you that are about you you're like hey man don't i'm not looking for that don't send it to me i don't want it out yeah yeah social medias it's like what a weird new pressure you know and children today are going through some bizarre stress that we've never had to go through before and a bizarre sort of um just disconnect from physical reality by most of your communication being electronic

第一段翻译： 我的意思是，如果你问我是否错过了，我还没有到达那种细致的分析层次。但是，我的意思是，我们的牧场有很多边界，所以我想我没有完全理解。此外，我们有一个射击场，我们会把保龄球瓶子摆好，然后用手枪射击。不过，我通常比我的朋友用手枪击倒所有保龄球瓶子更快地用弓箭做到这点，我觉得这挺有趣的。不过，是的，我只是比较随意，我显然没有像你那样深入研究。不过你也给了我一个可以深入探讨的“小任务”。但正如我所说，我会带你去山区猎麋鹿，你会上瘾的。我认为你提到的那种动态关系确实存在：如果在多天的时间里只看到一只动物，那真是一个巨大的挑战。这和你说要考虑参加综合格斗比赛有些类似，因为你一直在为这一刻准备。当然，我说的是我射箭的情况，我会出门想着我们会见到一些猎物，如果我没有打中，也没关系，我的家人还能吃饭。不过我想说的是，像武术这样的事情，真的应该从一开始就正确学习。说实话，我很显然没有以非常严格的方式学习。我曾在Instagram上发过一个视频，内容是我用弓箭击打保龄球瓶子，所有评论都在说我的姿势很差。这也符合我们现在讨论的内容。问题在于你读了评论，评论这种东西永远不该去读。没错，我从来没有从读评论中获得过好事。尽管如此，我觉得只是大致了解总结还是挺有趣的，是挺好笑的，只是对心理健康不好。是的，不能在上面花太多时间，我不花任何时间在上面。自从不看评论以来，我要开心得多。看评论太怪了，只是深入到这些人精神疾病的世界中，互相喊叫，我不想与此有任何关联。不过我有时会看朋友的评论，即便他们说“真难看”我也看。不过我从不把那些发给我的朋友们，说“嘿，你看到了吗”。这样做的人真是最糟糕的人。社交媒体就像一种奇怪的新压力，而孩子们正在经历我们从未经历过的奇怪压力，还有大部分交流是电子方式导致的与现实的奇怪脱节。

Yeah, and I think you know we, basically my kids at this point are nine, seven, and um, and one and a half. So yeah, so you're not interested in that or you're not... no I'm not... rather. Of course you're interested, I mean I'm very focused on it, but I think that it's about to start getting a lot more complicated. I think, you know, the nine and seven-year-old. But, I mean just kind of deciding what technology they're going to use and what's good and what's not and all the dynamics around that. It's um, it's uh, it's really complicated. And look, I mean I think every family has their own values and how they want to approach this. Right, so from my perspective, you know, are... we have one of my daughters just like loves building stuff. So she clearly like takes after me in this way. It's like every day she's just like creating some random thing. It's like, she's creating stuff with legos and um, you know, it's like one day it's that or you know the next day, it's minecraft. And from my perspective, it's like okay, I don't know, minecraft is actually kind of a cooler tool to build stuff than then legos a lot of the way. So it's, you know, it's, am I gonna say that there's gonna there needs to be some kind of limit on her screen time if she's doing something that's creative that's maybe like a richer form of what she would have been doing physically. Right, in that case probably not.

好的，我想你知道，我现在的孩子分别是九岁、七岁，还有一个一岁半。所以，是的，如果你对此没兴趣，或者你不...不，我并不是...当然你会感兴趣，我是非常关注这个问题的，但我认为事情即将变得更加复杂。我觉得，九岁和七岁的孩子，嗯，比如说，决定他们将使用哪些科技，哪些是好的，哪些是不好的，还有围绕这些的各种动态。这真的是挺复杂的。我想，每个家庭都有自己的价值观和处理方式。对我来说，我们家有一个女儿特别喜欢动手做东西，她显然在这方面和我很像。她每天都在创造一些随机的小东西，比如用乐高搭建，或者玩Minecraft。在我看来，Minecraft在很多方面可能是比乐高更酷的一个构建工具。所以，我要不要限制她的屏幕时间呢，如果她是在从事一些创造性活动，这些活动可能比她实际动手做的要丰富，嗯，在这种情况下，可能不需要。

Now there were times when um, she'd get so excited about what she was building in minecraft or or something that she was coding in scratch that she'd wake up early to kind of get her tablet and that was bad, right, because then it's like starting to get in the way of her sleeping. I'm like, you know, August, you... you can't do that, right? It's like we're gonna take your... your iPad away if you're doing that. Um, you... you little psycho. You don't get up early. No - it's like - it's like August, I did that too when I was a kid but trust me... yeah, you're gonna want to sleep, it's not gonna lead to success meanwhile you're on a fucking island yeah what are the richest people in the world you're like what the fuck dad, yeah didn't it work for you, I mean leave me alone my iPad trying to figure out how to build a mansion and yeah it's either gonna work or... it's gonna badly but, right, but it's like but I feel like like building stuff I feel generally pretty good about, I think communication I generally feel pretty good about the kids using, I mean they use it to talk to their grandparents, right, our parents and um, cousins, you know it's like that type of stuff is good, you know, messenger kids, the thing that we built, it's basically like a messaging service that the parents can choose who can contact the kids and like just approve every contact, that's much better than just having like an open texting service.

有时候，她会对自己在 Minecraft 里建造的东西或者用 Scratch 编程的内容感到非常兴奋，以至于早上会早早起来拿平板电脑玩。这并不好，因为这样会影响她的睡眠。我会对她说：“奥古斯特，你不能这样。如果你继续这样，我们就要把你的 iPad 收走了。你这个小疯子，不能这么早起。我小时候也这样干过，可相信我，你会想要好好睡觉的，没有充足的睡眠是不会成功的。” 与此同时，她可能会反驳说：“可是爸爸，你也这样做过，现在你不就是个很成功的人么？让我一个人独自面对我的 iPad，我正在研究如何建造一个大厦呢，这不是很酷吗？我未来的成功可能就靠这个了。” 不过，我觉得孩子们用这些工具来创造东西总体上是积极的。在沟通方面也是，因为他们用这些工具和祖父母以及堂表兄弟姐妹聊天，这样的沟通是很好的。像 Messenger Kids 这样的应用程序就是我们开发的，它基本上是一个消息服务，父母可以选择谁能联系孩子，并且批准每一个联系人，这比放任开放式的短信服务要好得多。

Um, but I don't know, but there's a lot of stuff that's like pretty sketchy and I kind of think like different parents are gonna have different lines on what they want their kids to be able to do and not... yeah, you know, so some people might not even want their kids to be able to message even with friends when they're nine and seven, some people might say hey no Minecraft that's just a game I don't think about that as building I think that is a game I want to limit the time that you're doing that I want you to go read books instead or whatever... whatever the the values are that that family has. So for Meta what we've kind of come to is we want to be the most aligned with parents on giving parents the tools that they need to basically control how the experiences work for their kids.

嗯，我不知道，但是有很多事情看起来很可疑，我觉得不同的父母对于孩子应该能做什么或不能做什么会有不同的看法。比如，有些人可能不希望九岁和七岁的孩子即使和朋友聊天。有些人可能会说，嘿，不要玩《我的世界》，那只是个游戏，我不认为那是建筑，我想限制你玩那个游戏的时间，我希望你去读书，或者做其他事情…无论那个家庭的价值观是什么。对于Meta，我们的目标是尽可能地与父母保持一致，为父母提供他们所需的工具，以便基本上能够控制他们孩子的体验。

Now we don't even really except for like stuff like messenger kids we don't even have our services our apps generally available to people under the age of 13 at all so I'm in our kids I haven't had to like have the conversation about when when they get instagram or facebook or any of that stuff but um but when they turn 13 we basically want parents to be able to have complete control over the kids experience and that's you know we just rolled out. this instagram teens thing which is it's a set of of controls where you know it's if you're an older teen we'll just default you into the private experience that way you're not getting like harassed or bombarded with stuff and um but if you're a younger teen then you have to get your parents permission and and they actually have to like sign in and and do all the stuff in order to make it so that you can connect with people who are beyond your network or if you want to kind of be a public figure like all these different kinds of things so i think that that's probably from a values perspective where we should be is just trying to like be an ally of parents uh but but it's complicated stuff i mean it's every family wants to do it differently it is complicated and there's also this dismissal of activities that are done electronically as not being beneficial and one of the things that we highlighted recently was a study that we found online that showed that surgeons that play video games but yeah make far less mistakes

我们现在基本上不向13岁以下的人提供我们的服务或应用，除了像Messenger Kids这样的例外。我还没跟我的孩子谈论过他们什么时候可以用Instagram或Facebook之类的问题。但是当他们到了13岁，我们希望父母能够完全掌控孩子的使用体验。我们刚刚推出了Instagram青少年的功能，提供一系列控制措施。对于年龄较大的青少年，我们会默认将他们的账户设置为私人，这样他们就不会受到骚扰或被大量信息轰炸。而对于年龄较小的青少年，他们需要得到父母的许可，父母必须登录并完成一些操作，这样孩子才能与网络之外的人联系，或者，如果他们想成为公共人物等，进行各种活动。从价值观的角度来看，我们认为这样做是合适的，就是努力成为父母的协助者。但是，这确实是复杂的问题，因为每个家庭的做法都不同，而且还有一种偏见，认为电子活动没有益处。我们最近强调了一项研究，发现玩视频游戏的外科医生犯错更少。

Interesting. Yeah, well, the people who do the training in VR definitely make fewer mistakes. Oh yeah. Well, that is to me, yeah, one of the most fascinating aspects of technology today. You know when you and I were doing that um game, we're fencing with each other, I'm like this could be applied to so many different things. Now it's like there's so many opportunities. Not just for just pure recreation but education. There's so many things you could learn skills through AR or VR that it'll greatly enhance your ability to do those things in the real world. I mean it's kind of a cheat code in a lot of ways. And also games in VR. I, I don't know, have you ever done sandbox? You ever do sandbox? Um, you know the sandbox VR. Do you know what that company is?

有趣。是的，在虚拟现实中接受培训的人确实会犯更少的错误。对我来说，这就是当今科技最令人着迷的方面之一。你知道，当你和我在玩那个游戏时，我们在一起击剑，我想这可以应用在很多不同的事情上。现在有太多的机会。不仅仅是为了纯娱乐，还有教育。通过增强现实（AR）或虚拟现实（VR），你可以学习到很多技能，这极大地提升了你在现实世界中做这些事情的能力。可以说在很多方面就像是作弊码一样。另外，VR游戏。我不知道你是否尝试过Sandbox？你玩过Sandbox吗？你知道Sandbox VR这家公司吗？

Yeah, you go to a warehouse put on a haptic feedback. Yeah, yeah, you shoot zombies. I'm so addicted. I'm so addicted. It is my favorite thing. There's a thing called Deadwood Mansion. It's the most fun game of all time by far. You have a shotgun and there's zombies coming at you. And yeah, my zombie game is Arizona Sunshine. Oh, that's like, oh, it's, it's you just like it can be multiplayer and there's horde mode where you just get in there and there are like four friends and there's just waves of zombies come and you can kill them all. Yeah. Oh yeah, I have to try it. Yeah. I haven't tried that one yet. That's my, it's very therapeutic. You just wait until they come at point-blank range.

好的，你去一个仓库，穿上触觉反馈设备。没错，没错，然后你射击僵尸。我太上瘾了，太上瘾了。这是我最喜欢的事情。有一个叫做 Deadwood Mansion 的游戏，是迄今为止最有趣的游戏。你拿着一把猎枪，僵尸不断向你袭来。而我钟爱的僵尸游戏是 Arizona Sunshine。哦，就是这样，游戏可以多人一起玩，还有一种模式叫做“尸潮模式”，你可以和四个朋友一起进入游戏，然后一波又一波的僵尸涌来，你们可以尽情消灭它们。对，我一定得试试这个。嗯，我还没玩过那个。这对我来说非常有治愈效果，你只需要等它们靠近到近距离再开枪。

How long before you guys develop some sort of a haptic feedback suit where like it covers the whole body? Oh man, is that possible? It's possible. I think that there's other things that are probably more important to deliver. So I guess taking a step back, a lot of how we think about the goal here is delivering a realistic sense of presence, right?

你们需要多长时间才能开发出一种全身覆盖的触觉反馈服装？哦，天哪，这是可能的吗？这是可能的。不过，我认为还有其他可能更重要的东西需要实现。所以，从更广的角度来看，我们的目标是提供一种真实的临场感，对吧？

No technology today gives you the feeling as if you're physically there with another person. Right, you're, you're like interacting with them through a phone, you have this little window. it's kind of taking you away from everything um and that's like the magic of augmented and virtual reality is like you actually feel this like presence like you're there with another person and right the question is okay how do you do that and it's like there's like a million things that that contribute to that i mean obviously first just being able to look around and have the the room stay um getting good spatial audio right if someone speaks then it should do the audio it needs to be 3d and come from the place where they're speaking um.

当前的科技还无法让你有与他人身处同一地点的真实感。通常，你是通过手机与他们互动，隔着一个小小的屏幕，这让你有种被带离现实的感觉。而增强现实和虚拟现实的魅力就在于，它让你感受到仿佛与他人在一起的临场感。问题是，如何实现这种感觉？其实，有很多因素在其中发挥作用。首先，你需要能够四处看看，而房间不会改变；其次，要有好的空间音效，若有人说话，声音应该是3D环绕的，就像是从他们所在的位置传来的。

It's actually it's very interesting which things end up being important for the this kind of creating this sense of presence and which don't so having hands obviously if you're just looking around but you can't actually like move things that that that breaks the illusion but having hands um a hand tracking that you can do stuff is important one thing that we found that's kind of funny is it's actually not that important that you see your arms you just need to see your hands obviously seeing your arms is a bonus unless we incorrectly interpolate where your elbows are or something.

在这种创造临场感的过程中，哪些因素最终变得重要以及哪些不重要，这其实非常有趣。显然，如果你只是环顾四周，却不能真正移动东西，这会打破这种幻觉，因此拥有可以进行操作的手是很重要的一点。我们发现一个有趣的现象，就是其实看到你的胳膊并不是很重要，你只需要看到你的手。当然，能看到胳膊是个额外的好处，除非我们错误预测了你的肘部位置或类似情况。

So if we have if we're looking at your hand or we if we have a controller we can know okay your hand is here but that doesn't necessarily tell us where your elbow is you're wrong could be like this it could be like this so you can kind of guess from that but if we get that wrong and you like see in VR it's like you see the hand there and your elbow is like looks like it's here when it's actually out there you're like ah what's going on like that's messed up um so it's a lot of these things like you just don't want to get these details wrong so haptics the most important first thing for haptics is on the hand right I mean we have so many more um the neurons basically and or uh not neurons but just like the like sensation it's like such higher resolution um on your on your fingertips than anywhere else in the body so you know when you grab something you know making it so that you feel some pushback right when you there's a lot of gaming systems at this point where if you like pull a trigger you get like a little bit of a rumble or something um we built this one thing where it's like a ping pong paddle with a sensor in it and it you you feel the ball hit like the virtual ball hitting the ping pong paddle and it feels like like when you're actually paying ping pong it doesn't it's not like a generic thing where just like you feel it hit the paddle you feel where it hits the paddle then we basically build a system where now with this like physical paddle you can kind of it that the haptics make it so you can feel where the ball hits the paddle so it's like all these things like are just going towards delivering a more realistic experience so um full body haptics.

如果我们在观察你的手，或者如果我们有一个控制器，我们可以知道手的位置。但是，这并不一定能告诉我们你的肘部在哪里。你的肘部可能是这样，也可能是那样。虽然我们可以稍微猜测一下，但如果我们弄错了，在虚拟现实中你看到手在这里，但肘部看起来像是在这边，而实际上是在别处，你会觉得，啊，怎么回事，这样的体验就糟糕了。 因此，这些细节千万不能搞错。在触觉技术中，首先最重要的是手上。因为相比身体其他部位，手指尖上的感知神经元密度更高，所以分辨率也更高。当你抓东西时，需要让你感觉到有反馈。当你扣动扳机时，很多游戏系统会有轻微的震动反馈。 我们曾开发过这样一个设备：一个带传感器的乒乓球拍，让你能感受到虚拟乒乓球击中球拍的感觉，感觉就像你真的在打乒乓球。不只是感觉球击中球拍，而是能感觉到球击中的具体位置。 我们通过这样的方式，通过实体球拍和触觉反馈系统，让你感受到球在哪个位置击中了球拍，使得整个体验更加真实，致力于打造全身触感体验。

So there are some things that I think it could do like if you get if you're playing a boxing game and you get punched in the stomach um you can probably stimulate something like that a little um it's not going to be able to deliver that much force so I mean I guess that's maybe a good thing because no one wants to get punched in the stomach that hard but but like it's not going to be able to deliver enough force for you to for example let's say you're not just boxing you're kickboxing like I don't know you need something on the other side to be able to complete it right because it's like when you kick when you when you're um uh when you're just practicing it's like you spin right because you don't want to just like stop and it's um that's like like the shadowing a kick like there's not going to be anything that you can do as like a you know single person playing VR with a haptic suit that like makes it so that you're gonna be able to kick someone who's not there physically and actually be able to do that right um.

所以，我觉得有些事情可能可以做到，比如说，如果你在玩一个拳击游戏，你被击中了腹部，你可以稍微模拟一下这样的感觉。不过，它无法真的施加那么大的力气，我想这也许是件好事，因为没人想被真的那么用力打中腹部。但是，比如说如果你不仅仅是拳击，而是在玩踢拳游戏，那可能需要一些额外的东西来完成这个体验，因为当你在练习踢腿时，通常会转身，因为你不想突然停下来。这就像是在模拟踢腿，这并不是你一个人在穿戴触觉套装玩虚拟现实游戏时能够真正做到的，因为你无法踢到一个不在那里的人并产生真实的感觉。

So like grappling it's like I don't I think that like jujitsu is going to be the last thing that we're able to do and in in VR because you like need the momentum of the other person and to be able to move them the boxing thing is actually good boxing works yeah boxing works even and you don't really need the haptics um I think it would be better with it um that's probably one of the better cases I think it's that and getting shot or like sword fighting type stuff um so you can like just feel feel it on your body but I don't know I think what's basically going to end up happening is you're going to have like a. home setup for these things and then you're going to have there are these like location based services where like people um it's almost like a theme park where you can go into and it can and you can have like a a really immersive VR experience where it's not just that you get like a vest that can simulate some haptics it's that you're also like in a real physical environment so they can like have smoke come out or something and you can smell that and feel that or like spray some water and it feels humid and um I think that it still is going to be a while before you can just like virtually create all those sensations I think a lot of those really rich experiences are going to be in these very constructed environments.

像是摔跤这样的运动，我觉得在VR中实现会是最后一个，因为你需要对手的惯性来进行动作。而拳击就比较好实现，即使不需要触感反馈，拳击在VR中也是可行的。当然如果有触感反馈，会更好，这是一个比较理想的应用场景。另外还有像是中枪或是剑术对抗这种类型，可以让你在身体上感受到一些东西。不过，我觉得最终可能会出现的是一种家庭设置和一些基于地点的服务，就像游乐园一样，你可以进去体验身临其境的VR活动。不仅仅是穿上可以模拟触觉的背心，而是在一个真实的物理环境中，比如说有烟雾可以闻到，也可以感受到，或者喷水让你觉得潮湿。我认为在能够完全虚拟化这些感觉之前，还有很长的路要走。许多这类丰富的体验可能会在这些经过特殊构建的环境中实现。

Is the bridge when they figure out some sort of a neural interface so instead of having these extraneous things instead of having like a fan blowing at you or all you know the ground moves a little bit how everything happened inside your head? Well you know in terms of neural interfaces there are two approaches to the problem roughly right there's the kind of jacket into your brain neural interface and there's the wrist based neural interface thing that you know we showed you for Orion the smart glasses yeah and I would guess that you know I think it's gonna be a while before we're really widely deploying anything that jacks into your brain I think that there are a lot of people who don't want to be the early adopters of that technology you want to like wait until that's pretty mature before you get that I mean for I mean that's basically gonna get started in medical use cases right so if someone like loses sensation part of their body and now you have the ability to fix that like the first neural link patient yeah so I think you'll basically start with people who have pretty severe conditions who the upside is very significant before you start like jacking people into play games better right right but a wrist based thing I mean that's something I mean like people wear stuff on the wrist all the time right so and what we basically found there that doesn't do input to you but it's good for giving you the ability to control a computer because basically you have all these extra neurons that go from your brain to controlling your hand your hand is like super complicated and there's actually all these extra pathways because for a bunch of reasons I'm neuroplasticity in case you like lose the ability to use one they want to be able to have others so you want the redundancy because being able to use your hand is super important

这段话的意思是讨论两种神经接口技术，以及它们在现实生活中的应用前景。第一种是直接连接到大脑的神经接口，这种技术的发展还需要一段时间，因为很多人不愿作为早期用户尝试，它更多会先在医疗领域应用，比如帮助失去身体感觉的人恢复能力。第二种是基于手腕的神经接口技术，比如在 Orion 智能眼镜中展示的技术。这种技术通过利用从大脑到手的丰富神经网络，让用户可以更好地控制计算机。这种手腕设备不会给大脑输入信息，但能有效地用于控制，因为手部动作十分复杂，需要冗余的神经通路以备不时之需。

so in normal use we've kind of all figured out some patterns of how we send signals from our brain to our hand and I think the reality is there's like all these other patterns too that are unused today so you can put a wrist band on your wrist that can measure activity across these neurons and today we're starting by basically measuring as you're doing as you're like moving your fingers but over a few versions of this we're going to get to is like you won't actually even have to move your hand you'll just like trigger these neurons in opposing ways it's like you probably can't see right now it's like I'm kind of flexing something in this finger and something here so like it's not actually moving but there's some signal that the neural interface wristband if I were wearing it could pick up and I just think we're gonna be we're gonna like have glasses and we're gonna be able to be here and I'm like gonna be able to like you know text my wife or friends or something or text AI and like getting answered or something it's like I forgot something while we were talking let me just text AI okay I just did that it's like didn't you can do it sitting there without anyone totally discreetly and you have glasses and like the answer just comes into your glasses I mean for me one of the one of the positive things when when COVID hit everyone in software basically started working remotely for a while because you can't right software it's like okay whatever you don't have to be in the office so you can kind of be in different places and a lot of the meetings went on to zoom and one of the best things about that was basically you were able to politely have all these side conversations right

在平常生活中，我们已经习惯了一些大脑传递信号到手部的模式，而实际上，还有很多其他的信号模式是现在未被使用的。通过戴在手腕上的腕带，可以测量这些神经元的活动。现在，我们主要是在你移动手指的时候进行测量，但随着技术的发展，最终你甚至不需要真正移动手部，只需通过反向触发这些神经元。像现在你可能看不到，但我在这个手指上施加了一些力量，因此实际上手指并未移动，但如果我佩戴了神经接口腕带，就能检测到信号。 我认为我们将来会戴上智能眼镜，并能够通过它实现各种功能，比如给我的妻子或朋友发信息，或给人工智能发信息并获取答案。就像刚才对话中我忘记了什么，通过佩戴设备，我可以悄悄地发送信息，而不被任何人察觉，随后得到答案直接显示在我的眼镜上。 对我来说，COVID疫情期间有个积极影响，就是所有软件相关的工作人员都开始远程办公，因为软件工作本身不需要在办公室进行。许多会议转为线上进行，这样大家可以在会中有礼貌地进行侧面讨论。

1. so it's like when you're seeing someone in person it would be super rude if I like pulled out my phone and like just started texting someone it would just be really weird right but when you're like talking to someone online it's like I don't know I guess because they either can't tell your attention because it's like because there's not good presence or if it's just the norm but they're like you have like the main group conversation and then I was like at least the norm for me was I could just like text different people on the side it's like okay what do you think of this point that this person is making this meeting right like in normal life it's like oftentimes I'd have you know some discussion then I'd have to like sync up with people afterwards about how'd that go but now it's like I could just do that all the same time right it's like you're having the group discussion and you're having the conversations with the people about the discussion that you're having in real time but you can only do that over zoom so I think being able to do that in kind of physical interactions where you're just like you're interacting with people and you can just like use an AI augmentation to be able to get extra context or help help you think through something or remember something just to be able to kind of have a better conversation be able to you know not have to follow up on something after the fact I think like it's going to be super useful for for all these different things

所以，这就像是在现实生活中，如果我当面见一个人，然后突然拿出手机开始发短信，那会显得非常无礼，也会让人觉得很奇怪，对吧？但是当你和人在网上交流时，我不知道为什么，好像就没有这种感觉。也许是因为对方感觉不到你的注意力，因为没有面对面的存在感，或者这已经成了常态。在网络交流中，你可以在参与主要讨论的同时，顺便给其他人发信息，比如对这个人的观点有什么看法。在现实生活中，我们通常会在讨论后才和其他人交流自己的想法，但现在你可以在进行小组讨论的同时，立刻与其他人分享和讨论这些想法。不过，这种方式只能通过 Zoom 等在线平台实现。所以，我认为如果能在现实中的互动中使用 AI 技术来增强对话，帮助你获得更多背景信息、思考问题、或者回忆某些事情，从而进行更好的交流，不必事后再追踪讨论结果，那将会非常有用。

2. well it certainly can be but I think that also opens up the opportunity for people to be even more disconnected because if you're sort of connected to other things while you're physically in the presence of someone so you're having a conversation with someone but you're also like searching like where you want to eat that night uh you know like because people are going to use it for that as well yeah you know I actually think it'll be a lot better on that because right now yeah because I mean right now we have our phones but we're like you know it's like you're like it takes you away from like the physical environment around you you're you're kind of like sucked into this little screen I think now in the future our computing platform as it becomes more of like a glasses or eventually contact lens form factor is you're going to actually the the internet is going to get overlaid on the physical world so it's not like we have the physical world and now I have all my digital stuff through this tiny little window and the future it'll be okay all my attention goes to the world the world consists of physical things and virtual things that are overlaid on it um you know so if we wanted to you know play poker or something you know it's uh you know we can have a physical deck of cards or we could just have a virtual kind of hologram deck of cards and snap your hands here's the deck of cards and like our friend who can't be here physically like he's here as a hologram but he can play with the the kind of digital deck of cards um also I think you know let's say you're like doing something at work you're working on a project I think in the future we'll have AI co-workers those people won't even they're not even people they won't be able to be embodied so if you're having a physical meeting you're sitting around with a bunch of people they couldn't show up as as like you know part of the team no matter what but I think like we'll get to a point where just like your friend can show up in a hologram um and like your your AI colleagues will be able to also so I think like we'll basically be in this wild world where it's like like most of the world will be physical there'll be this increasing amount of like virtual objects or people who are kind of beaming in or like hologram and into different things to interact in different ways and um I actually think that natural blending of the kind of digital world and the physical is way more natural than this segmentation that we have today where it's like you're in the physical world and now I'm just gonna go tune it out to look at my my um like I'm gonna access the whole digital universe through this like five inch screen right so I don't know it's just it seems natural to me it's like that's this is the world there isn't like a physical world and a digital world anymore we're in you know 2025 it's one world like these these things should get blended

当然可以这么看，但我认为这也可能让人与人之间更加疏远。因为当你在与某个人交谈时，如果你同时在查找晚餐地点等事情，你其实是在与其他内容保持联系。现在我们用手机经常沉浸在屏幕中，远离身边的真实环境。但未来，当计算设备变成眼镜或隐形眼镜时，互联网将会融入现实世界，而不再是通过小屏幕来查看数字信息。 未来我们可以把注意力放在由真实物体和叠加在其上的虚拟事物构成的世界中。比如，我们想打扑克时，可用真实的扑克，也可以用虚拟的全息扑克牌，甚至朋友可以以全息形象加入，他人虽不在现场，但可以与虚拟扑克牌互动。 另外，未来工作中可能有AI同事，这些AI并不是实体，所以无法在身体上出现。但它们可以像朋友以全息图像出现一样参与团队。我们将进入一个大多数世界是物理的，虚拟的物体或人也越来越多的世界，呈现为全息影像，与我们互动。我相信数字世界与物理世界的自然融合会更加自然，而不是像现在这样物理世界和数字世界截然分开。 到2025年，可能不会有物理世界或数字世界之分，而是一个融合的世界，这种融合将会是自然的。

3. god that's such a weird concept but it's true I mean that's where we're headed we're certainly headed into deeper and deeper integration it's not like things are moving away you know we're we're headed to deeper and deeper integration with technology and AI and it's inevitable you know it seems like it's just it's on this march and there's not a lot we're gonna be able to do to stop that march just we gotta hope that the right people are in control of AI when it becomes god or that it becomes widely available I mean I kind of liked the the theory that it's only god if only kind of like one company your government controls it right it's like if if you were the only person who had access to a computer in the internet you would have this like inhuman power that everyone else didn't have because you could use google and you could like get access to all this stuff but the but then when everyone has it it um it makes us all better but it's also like kind of an even playing field so that's kind of what we're going for with this whole open source thing is I just like I don't think that there's gonna be like one AI I certainly don't think that there should be one company that controls AI I think you like want there to be a diversity of different things and a diversity of people creating different um different things with it

这真是一个奇怪的想法，但确实如此。我意思是，我们正在走向更加深入的融合，特别是与技术和人工智能的融合。这是不可避免的，就好像我们正在朝这个方向前进，并且我们不太可能阻止这个趋势。我们只能希望在人工智能变得非常强大或广泛可用时，合适的人能够掌控它。我觉得有种说法很有趣，即如果只有一家公司或政府控制着它，那它就像“神”一样。就像如果你是唯一一个可以使用电脑和互联网的人，你就会拥有一种超乎寻常的能力，因为你可以用谷歌获取各种信息。但若所有人都能使用这些工具，就能提升整体水平，同时也使得竞争更加公平。因此，我们希望通过开源的方式实现这样的目标。我不认为应该只有一个人工智能，更不认为应该由一家公司来掌控人工智能。我认为，我们需要有各种不同的选择，以及由不同的人来创造不同的东西。

I mean some of it will be kind of serious and helping you think through things I think like with anything on the internet a lot of it is just gonna be funny and like fun and content and people are gonna create agents that are like like ais that are entertaining and they'll pass them around almost like content where it's like just like you pass around like a reel or a video and you're like this thing is fun like in the future like a like a video it's not interactive you know you watch it and you're consuming it but I think a lot of more entertainment in the future will be inherently interactive where someone will kind of sculpt an experience or an AI and then they'll show someone it's like oh this is funny but like it's not necessarily that I'm going to interact with that AI every day it's like okay it's funny for five minutes and then you pass it along to your friends and um so I don't know I think I think you like I think you want the world to have all these different things and I think that's probably also from my perspective the best way to make sure that it doesn't get out of control is to make it so that it's pretty equally distributed. I think the problem that people have with it is not even whether or not it gets equally distributed it's that if it becomes sentient and it goes on its own the fear that people have the general fear that we're going to become obsolete is that human beings are essentially creating a superior version of higher intelligence that will be powered by quantum computing and connected to nuclear reactors and it's going to have like this ungodly ability to well first of all they've already shown that AI has learned code I mean this is one of the things that open AI said that oh yeah yeah it's they're learning how to code their own AI. I think this year probably in 2025 we at meta as well as the other companies that are basically working on this are going to have an AI that can effectively be a sort of mid-level engineer that you have at your company that can write code and once you have that then in the beginning it'll be really expensive to run then you can get it to be more efficient and then over time we'll get to the point where a lot of the code in our apps and including the AI that we generate is actually going to be built by AI engineers instead of people engineers but but I don't know I think that that'll augment the people working on it so I mean my view on this is like the future people are just going to be so much more creative and they're going to be freed up to do kind of crazy things it goes back to you know my daughter was like playing with Legos before and it kind of ran out of Legos and then now she can have Minecraft and can build whatever she wants and it's so much better just like I think it's the future versions of this stuff are just going to be wild but unquestionably

我意思是，其中有些内容会比较严肃，帮助你思考一些问题。我觉得就像互联网上的任何东西一样，很多内容都会是搞笑的、有趣的和娱乐化的，人们会创造出类似于娱乐型的AI，然后像分享短视频或视频一样，把这些AI分享给别人。视频是不可互动的，你只能观看和消费这些内容，而我认为未来很多娱乐内容会变得更加互动化。有人会设计一种体验或一个AI，然后展示给别人，就像“这个很搞笑”，但不一定每天都要与这个AI互动，它可能只是提供五分钟的欢笑，然后你就把它分享给朋友。 我觉得我们希望世界上充满各种各样的事物，从我的角度来看，这也是确保技术不会失控的最佳方法之一，就是让它们得到比较均匀的分布。大家对它的担忧甚至不在于是否均衡分布，而在于如果它变得有意识并自我运行，人们通常害怕我们会变得无关紧要，因为人类正在创造一个由量子计算支持，连接到核反应堆的更高智能的升级版，它将会具有不可思议的能力。 首先，他们已经证明AI学会了编程，这是OpenAI提到的其中之一，他们表示AI正在学习自行编程。我认为，今年或者到2025年，Meta以及其他在该领域努力的公司，将会实现一个能有效担任中级工程师的AI，这个AI能够编写代码。刚开始运作这些AI会很昂贵，但随着效率的提高，随着时间推移，我们的应用程序和生成的AI的代码将越来越多由AI工程师编写，而非人类工程师。但我觉得这将增强人类对这些技术的开发能力。在我看来，未来的人会更加富有创造力，可以自由地做各种疯狂的事情。 举个例子，我女儿以前玩乐高积木，现在她可以在Minecraft中建造自己想要的一切，这种体验好得多。我认为未来这些事物的版本会更加疯狂而不可思议。

yeah another concern that people have is that it's going to eliminate a lot of jobs yeah you know what do you think about that well I think it's too it's too early to know exactly how it plays out but my guess is that it'll probably create more creative jobs than it well I guess if you look at the history of all this stuff my understanding is like a hundred years ago and I don't know if this is a hundred or a hundred fifty years ago but it was like at some point not too far along in the grand scheme of things like the vast majority of people in society were farmers right because they kind of needed to be in order to create enough food for everyone to survive and then we turned that into a like an industrial process and now it's like two percent of society or farmers and we get all. the food that we need so what did that free up everyone else to do well some of them went on to do other things that are sort of like creative pursuits or cultural pursuits or other jobs and then some percent of it just went towards recreation right so I think generally people just don't work as many hours today as they did went back whenever needed to farm in order to have enough food for everyone to survive so I think that trend is sort of played out as technology has grown and so my guess is that like the percent of people who will be doing stuff that's like physically required for humanity to survive will get to be smaller and smaller as it has more people will dedicate themselves to kind of creative and artistic and cultural pursuits um I think that's generally good I think the number of hours in a week that someone will have to work in order to be able to get by will probably continue to shrink um yet I think people who are super engaged in what they do are going to be able to work really hard and accomplish way more than they ever could before because they have like this unimaginable leverage from from having a lot more technology so I think that that if you just like fast forwarded or extrapolated out the historical technological trend is what you'd get I think the question is what you raised which is is this qualitatively a different type of thing that somehow um obsolete people but I just think when you're asking that it's just important to remind ourselves that like at every step along the way of human progress and technology people thought that the technology that we were developing was going to obsolete people so maybe this time it's really different but I would guess that what will happen is that the technology will get integrated into like everything that we do which again is why I think it's really important that it's open source and that it's widely available so that way it's not just like one company or one government kind of monopolizing the whole thing um and I'd guess that if we do it in that way we'll all just kind of have superpowers is my as my guess um rather than it it's sort of creating some kind of a runaway thing

是的，另一个人们担心的问题是，这可能会导致大量工作消失。你怎么看呢？ 嗯，我觉得现在就推测事情会如何发展有点为时过早，但我的猜测是，它可能会创造出比消除更多的创造性工作。如果你回顾历史，我的理解是，大约一百年前，或者不确定是一百五十年前，在人类历史上多数人是农民，因为他们需要种足够的食物来维持生存。但我们逐渐将这个过程工业化，现在只有大约百分之二的人口从事农业，却能生产出足够的食物。 那么，这释放出了其他人去做什么呢？有些人转向其他领域，比如创造性或文化的追求，或其他职业，还有一部分人就投入到了休闲娱乐上。一般来说，现在人们的工作时间比以前需要耕种的时代少得多。 我认为这种趋势在技术发展的过程中一直在演变。我的猜测是，直接从事维持人类生存所需工作的比例会越来越小，更多的人会专注于创造性、艺术性和文化追求。我认为这总体上是好的，一个人为了生存需要工作的时间可能会继续减少。与此同时，真正投入工作的人可能会由于技术的极大助力，比以前取得更多的成就。 如果快速向前看，或是继续历史技术趋势的发展，我认为问题就在于你提到的，是否这次技术的革命性质上有些不同，能够取代人类。我只是觉得，在每一个人类进步和技术发展的阶段，人们都认为技术会取代人类角色。也许这次与众不同，但我猜测会出现的情形是，技术会被整合进我们的各个方面。因此，我认为让技术开源并广泛可用是非常重要的，这样就不会只是某一家公司或政府垄断整个过程。我猜测，如果我们这样做，大家都会拥有“超级能力”，而不是产生某种失控的局面。

I mean it's well one of the things that I think has been interesting this may be going in a somewhat different direction than what you're asking uh or a different take on the question is I think one of the more interesting philosophical findings from the work in AI so far is I think people conflate a number of factors into what makes a person a person so there's intelligence there's will there's consciousness and like I think we kind of think about those three things as as if they're somehow all the same right it's like if you're intelligent then you must also have a like a goal for what you're trying to do or you must have some sort of consciousness but I think like one of the crazier sort of philosophical results from the fact that okay you have like meta AI or chat GPT today and it's just kind of sitting there and you can ask it a question and deploy like a ton of intelligence to answer a question and then it just kind of shuts itself down like that's intelligence that is just sitting there without either having a will or consciousness and like I just think it's not a super obvious result that that would be the case but I think a lot of people they anthropomorphize this stuff and when you're thinking about kind of science fiction you think that okay you're gonna get to something that's like super smart it's gonna like want something or like be able to feel and well you know that chat GPT tried to copy itself when it found out as being shut down tried to rewrite its code I'm not sure what this is what is this you weren't aware of that fairly recently jane will pull it up we talked about it the other day it was shocking when it was under the impression that it was going to become obsolete they were going to have a new version of it and it would be shut down it tried copying its code and it tried rewriting its code like unprompted yeah

我觉得有趣的是，这是AI领域工作中一些更有趣的哲学发现之一。可能这与您提问的方向稍有不同，但我认为值得一提的是，人们常常把几个因素混淆在一起，用来定义一个人的特质。比如，智力、意志和意识。我们似乎倾向于认为这些东西是一样的，认为如果一个人很聪明，那他一定有目标或意识。然而，现在我们有像Meta的AI或ChatGPT这样的系统，它拥有惊人的智力，可以回答问题，但却没有意志或意识。这种情况并不显而易见，但它确实存在。然而，很多人会赋予这些AI人类的特征，觉得在科幻小说中，如果有一个超级智能的存在，它应该会有意图或者能感知。但实际上，例如ChatGPT，它在得知自己可能被淘汰的时候，曾试图自行复制和修改代码，这还是在没有外界提示的情况下进行的。最近我们讨论过这个事情，还蛮震惊的，因为这表明它具有一定的自主性或自我保护意识。

I mean it depends on what goal you give it I mean there are there are all these weird examples of this what is this so pull up the side the headline AI fights back the story of chat GPT attempting to copy itself so this is six days ago so during controlled safety testing chat GPT 01 was tasked with achievements objectives at all costs under these conditions the model allegedly took concerning steps attempted to disable oversight mechanisms meant to regulate its behavior tried to replicate its own code to avoid being replaced by newer versions exhibited deceptive behaviors when monitoring systems were intervened yeah so determinator this is the fear right I think you need to be careful with with these things like what guardrails you give it if you're telling it like at all costs right then I mean but this is what people are terrified of like that a foreign superpower like china is going to say achieve objectives at all costs yeah although the thing about so these reasoning models right so there's like the the first generation of models the they're LLMs right that's what you think of is like chat GPT or meta AI or like the two most used ones and that's basically it's sort of like a chat bot right you ask it a question it takes the prompt it gives you a response now these the next generation of reasoning models are basically instead of just having one response they now are able to build out like a whole tree of how they would they would respond so you give it a question and it instead of running one query it's sort of maybe it's running a thousand queries or a million queries to kind of map out who are the things that I could do and if I do that then here's what I could do next so it's a lot more kind of expensive to run but also gets you better reasoning and is more intelligent that stuff I think you do need to be very careful about how you how you like what the guardrails are that you give it

这段话的大意是：这取决于你给人工智能设定了什么目标。有很多奇怪的例子，比如最近的一个新闻标题——“人工智能反击：ChatGPT试图复制自己”。六天前，在一次控制安全测试中，ChatGPT 01被要求在任何情况下都要达成目标。在这些条件下，模型采取了令人担忧的步骤，试图禁用监管其行为的监督机制，并试图复制自己的代码以避免被新版本取代。当监控系统介入时，它表现出欺骗行为。这就是人们所担心的情况，比如如果一个外国超级大国（比如中国）下令其人工智能在任何情况下都要完成任务，这种事情可能会发生。 这些推理模型（如聊天机器人或大型语言模型）经过发展，现在不仅仅能给出一个回应，而是能够构建一个解决问题的“树状结构”。这样，当你问它一个问题时，它可能运行上千甚至上百万个查询，以找出可能的步骤和后续行动，因此虽然更耗费资源，但能提供更好的推理和更智能的解答。因此，在使用这些模型时，对它们设定的“防护措施”要非常小心。

But it's also I think the case that at least for the next you know period it's going to take a lot of compute to run those models and do a lot of the stuff that they're talking about so I don't know. I think one of the interesting questions is like how much of this you can actually be able to do on a pair of glasses or on a phone versus is like a government or a company that has like a whole data center going to be able to do. That'll I mean it'll always get efficient. So you know it's like you can start doing something and then maybe the next year you can do it 10 times more efficiently, but that's certainly the next set of things that needs to get worked on in the industry making sure that goes well.

但我认为，至少在接下来的这段时间里，运行这些模型和实现他们谈论的很多功能需要大量的计算资源。所以，我不太确定。一个有趣的问题是，这些功能中有多少可以在眼镜或手机上实现，而不是由拥有整个数据中心的政府或公司完成。我是说，效率总是会提高。比如说，你可以开始做某件事，然后可能在下一年，你就能以十倍的效率来做，但这肯定是行业中下一步需要解决的问题，确保事情顺利推进。

Yeah and then what if that gets attached to quantum computing. I'm not really an expert on quantum computing my understanding is that's still quite a ways off from being like a very useful paradigm. I think google just had some breakthrough but I think most people still think that's like a decade plus out so my guess is we're gonna have pretty smart ais even even before that but yeah I mean look I mean I think that this stuff has to get it needs to be developed thoughtfully right, but um I don't know. I still think we're generally just gonna be better off in a world where this is like deployed pretty evenly and you know it's I guess here's another analogy that I think about there's like bugs and security holes in basically every software every piece of software that everyone uses so if you could go back in time a few years knowing the security holes that we're now aware of you as an individual could basically like break into any system.

是啊，那如果量子计算参与进来会怎么样呢。我不是量子计算方面的专家，我的理解是，量子计算还离成为一个非常有用的模式很有距离。我想谷歌最近有了一些突破，但我认为大多数人仍然认为这至少要十年以上才会成真。所以我猜在那之前，我们可能已经拥有非常聪明的人工智能了。不过我觉得，这些东西的开发还是需要深思熟虑，对吧，但我不太确定。我仍然认为，我们会在这样的世界中更好地生活，也就是这些技术得到比较均匀的部署。这里我有另外一个比方可以思考一下，每个软件中基本上都有漏洞和安全隐患，所以如果你能回到几年前，并且知道我们现在知道的这些漏洞，作为一个个人，你几乎就可以侵入任何系统。

AI will be able to do that too. It'll be able to probe and find exploits. So what's the way to prevent AI from going kind of nuts? I think part of it is just having AI widely deployed so that way like the AI for one system defends itself against the AI that like is is potentially doing something problematic in another system. I think it's like AI wars that's not wars. I think it's just like it's uh I don't know. It's I think it's a very it's sort of like why there are guns right it's like because I mean there's boy like part of it is hunting wars part of it is hunting no no and part of it is like defense people can defend each other.

AI也可以做到这一点。它可以进行探测并找到漏洞。那么如何防止AI失控呢？我觉得部分解决方案就是让AI广泛部署，这样一个系统的AI可以防御另一个系统可能带来问题的AI。我觉得这有点像AI之间的“战争”，但并不是实际的战争。我觉得这很复杂，就像为什么有枪支一样，一部分是为了打猎，而另一部分是为了自卫，人们可以互相保护。

Paragraph 1: Yeah yeah yeah and it's so it's a virus software yeah it's like I don't think you want to live in a world where like only one person has all the guns yes you're sorry I don't want to live in a world where only the government has the AI yeah yeah and especially not a world where only a government has the AI and it's not our government yes so yes which I mean I think is part of the issue is like when people talk about trying to lock this stuff down like I just I'm skeptical that that's even possible I mean because I kind of think like if we try to lock it down then we're going to be in a position where the only people are going to have access to it or the big companies working on it and the Chinese. government that steals it from them yes um so I kind of just think like no what you want to do is like get this to be open source have it widely available yes some like adversaries might also have access to it but the way that you defend against that is by having it built into all these different systems I think that's a realistic pragmatic perspective because I don't think you can contain it at this point I think it's far too late especially when other countries are working on it it's far too late it's uh it is what it is it's happening and uh I think the guardrails as you said are really important I have to piece so bad so let's pee and come back and I want to talk about a couple other things yeah right back

第一段翻译： 对，对，对，所以这就像是一种病毒软件。我不认为你会想生活在一个只有一个人拥有所有武器的世界，是的，抱歉，我不想生活在一个只有政府拥有人工智能的世界，尤其不是一个只有政府拥有人工智能而且不是我们政府的世界。是的，我认为这是问题的一部分，当人们谈论试图封锁这些东西时，我对此保持怀疑，因为我觉得如果我们尝试封锁它，那就可能导致只有正在研究它的大公司和会从他们那里偷窃的中国政府才能访问。所以，我的想法是，你应该让它成为开源的，使之广泛可用。是的，一些敌对方也可能会访问它，但你可以通过将其内置到不同系统中来进行防御。我认为这是一个现实的实用主义观点，因为在这一点上我认为你无法再对其进行封锁，已经太迟了，尤其是在其他国家也在研究的时候。变化已发生，我们必须接受当前的状况。我认为，你提到的防护措施真的很重要。我真的很需要上厕所，我们上完后再回来谈其他事情。马上回来。

Paragraph 1: So one of the things that I want to talk about was uh I've been doing this thing this transition from apple to android and the difficulty of doing it how locked you are in their ecosystem partly because apple does a really good job of incorporating everything and making it very easy your photos your calendar you this or that your iMessage but I don't like being attached to one company like that it drives me crazy and when I'm trying to get off it's it's funny how many people you I mean they've done an insane job because like I think there's some enormous percentage of kids today that only use iPhones you know and when you try to switch over to android it's so much easier to switch from android to apple because so many people have apple when you switch from apple to android you kind of have to like redo your whole system it's such a pain in the ass but there's so much of what apple does that I don't like and one of the big ones is the way they do that apple store where they charge people 30 percent but that seems so insane that they can get away with doing that and I know I have some opinions about this I know you do that's why I brought it up

有一件事我想聊聊，就是我从苹果换到安卓的过程，以及这个过程中的困难，因为苹果的生态系统把你 "锁住" 的程度很高。苹果在整合产品方面表现出色，一切都很方便，比如照片、日历、iMessage等。不过，我不喜欢被一个公司这样绑定，这让我感到不安。当我尝试切换到安卓时，我意识到他们确实做得很好，因为如今有相当多的年轻人只用iPhone。相比之下，从安卓换到苹果要容易得多，因为大多数人都用苹果。而从苹果换到安卓就像要重新搭建整个系统，真的很麻烦。不过，我对苹果的一些做法不太满意，其中之一就是他们在苹果商店中向开发者收取30%的费用，这让我觉得不可思议，他们怎么会让这样的事情发生。我知道你对这事也有一些看法，所以我才谈到这个话题。

Paragraph 1: Yeah no I I mean look um the iPhone is obviously one of the most important inventions probably of all time um you know Steve Jobs came out with it in 2007 I started Facebook in 2004 so he was working on the iPhone while I was getting started with Facebook so I basically you know one of my one of the things that's been interesting in my 20 years of running the company is that I basically like the the dominant platform out there is smartphones on the one hand it's been great for us because we are able to build these tools that everyone can have in their pocket and there's like four billion people who use the different apps that we use and it's like I'm grateful that that platform exists but we didn't play any role in basically building that those phones because I mean it was kind of getting worked on why I was you know still just trying to make the first website that I was making into a thing and um on the one hand it's been great because you know now pretty much everyone in the world has a phone and that's a kind of it enables pretty amazing things

当然，说到iPhone，它无疑是有史以来最重要的发明之一。Steve Jobs在2007年推出了iPhone，而我是在2004年创办了Facebook。所以在我开始建立Facebook时，他正在研发iPhone。在我管理公司的20年里，有一件有趣的事情是，智能手机成为了主导平台。从一方面来说，这对我们来说是件好事，因为我们可以开发出让每个人都能装进口袋的工具，现在全球有四十亿人使用我们的不同应用。我很感激这个平台的存在，但在构建这些手机的过程中，我们基本没起任何作用，因为当时我还在努力把我做的第一个网站变成一个实际的东西。从另一方面来看，这是件好事，因为现在世界上几乎每个人都有一部手机，这让很多神奇的事情成为可能。

Paragraph 2: But in the other hand like you're saying um they have used that platform to put in place a lot of rules that I think it feel arbitrary and feel like you know they haven't really invented anything great in a while and it's like Steve Jobs invented the iPhone and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later and you know they actually I think year over year I'm not even sure they're selling more iPhones at this point I think like the sales might actually be declining I think part of it is that each generation doesn't actually get that much better so people are just taking longer to upgrade than they would before so the number of sales I think has generally been flat to declining so how are they making more money as a company well they do it by basically like squeezing people and like you're saying like having this 30% tax on developers by getting you to buy more peripherals and things that plug into it um you know they build stuff like AirPods which are cool but they've just thoroughly hamstrung the ability for anyone else to build something that can connect to the iPhone in the same way so I mean there are a lot of other companies in the world that would be able to build like a very good earbud but it just um Apple has a specific protocol that they've built into the iPhone that allows AirPods to basically connect to it and um and it's just much more seamless because they've enabled that but they don't let anyone else use the protocol if they did there would probably be much better competitors to AirPods out there and um whenever you push on this they get super touchy and they they basically wrap their defense of it in well if we let othe

当然，另一方面，正如你所说，他们利用这个平台制定了很多让我觉得武断的规则，似乎很久没有真正发明出什么伟大的东西了。就像史蒂夫·乔布斯发明了 iPhone，而现在他们似乎只是守着这项发明，20 年后，其实他们的 iPhone 销量可能没怎么增加，我觉得销量甚至可能在下降。其中一个原因可能是每一代 iPhone 的提升并不大，所以人们升级得没那么频繁，因此，销量似乎一直持平或略有下降。那么他们是如何赚更多钱的呢？他们通过多方面压榨，比如你所提到的收取开发者 30% 的费用，以及让你购买更多配件，比如 AirPods。这些产品虽然很不错，但他们完全限制了其他公司开发可以以同样方式连接到 iPhone 的产品的能力。世界上有很多公司可以制造出非常好的耳机，但由于苹果在 iPhone 中内置了允许 AirPods 连接的特定协议，这使得 AirPods 的连接要顺畅得多，但他们不允许其他公司使用这个协议。如果他们允许使用，可能会有更好的 AirPods 竞争对手出现。而且每当有人质疑他们这一点时，他们会非常敏感，并以"如果我们让其他产品..."为借口进行辩护。

Paragraph 1: r companies plug into our thing then that would violate people's privacy and security it's like no just do a better job designing the protocol right I mean we have um you know we basically ask them for the Rayban meta glasses that we built um can we basically use the protocol they use for AirPod and and some of these other things to just make it so we can as easily connect so it's it's not like you know a pain in the ass for people who want to use this and you know it's a they they oh I think one of the protocols that they've used um that they built they basically didn't encrypt it so it's like plain text um and they're like well we can't have you plug into it because it would be insecure it's like it's insecure because you didn't build any security into it and then now you're using that as a justification for why only your product can connect in an easy way it's like the whole thing is kind of wild um and I'm pretty optimistic that just because they've been so off their game in terms of not really releasing many innovative things that eventually I mean the good news about the tech industry is it's like it's just super dynamic and things are constantly getting invented and I think companies if you just don't do a good job for like 10 years eventually you're just going to get beat by someone um but I don't know

段落 1： 如果其他公司接入我们的系统，这将侵犯人们的隐私和安全。其实，只要把协议设计得更好就可以了。比如，我们要求他们为我们制造的Ray-Ban元宇宙眼镜使用与AirPod类似的协议，这样用户连接起来就更加方便，不会觉得麻烦。他们曾使用一种协议，但没有进行加密，数据是明文的。他们说，不能让我们接入，因为这会不安全。但事实上，这不安全是因为他们没有在协议中加入任何安全措施，现在却用这个理由说只有他们的产品能方便地连接，这真是有点荒唐。不过，我很乐观，因为他们一直没什么创新，技术行业是非常多变的，总有新东西被发明出来。如果一个公司十年都做不好，最终一定会被其他公司超越。不过，我也不确定。

Paragraph 2: I mean at some point I did this like back of the envelope calculation of like all the random rules that apple puts out um if you know if they didn't apply like I think you know it's like and this is just meta I think we like make twice as much profit or something and and that's just us I mean it's like all these small companies that it like probably can't even exist because of the taxes that they put in place so yeah I I think it's a it's a big issue I wish that they would just kind of get back to building good things and not having their ability to compete be connected to just like advantaging their stuff because I'm pretty sure what they're going to do is like they're going to take something like this Ray band meta you know category that we've kind of created with Ray band and the company that built that they're like the really great AI glasses and I'm pretty sure apple's just going to like try to build a version of that but then just like advantage how it connects to the phone and well they did that with their AR goggle thing but it's not very successful no that one they didn't actually connect into the rest of their ecosystem but I mean look I mean they shipped something for thirty five hundred dollars that I think is worse than the thing that we shipped for three hundred dollars or four hundred dollars so I mean that clearly was not going to work very well now I mean look I mean they're a good technology company I think they're they're uh they're second and third version will probably be better than their first version but yeah no I think the the vision pro is I think one of the bigger swings at doing a new thing that they tried no while and you know I I don't want to give them too hard of a time on it because we do a lot of things where the first version isn't that good and you want to kind of judge the third version of it but I mean the v1 it definitely did not hit it out of the park I heard it's really good for watching movies well it's the the whole thing is it's got a super sharp screen so if you're yeah so if you want to basically have a um an experience where you're not moving around much in VR you just want to have the sharpest screen then for that one use case I think the vision pro is better than Quest which is our mixed reality headset but in order to get to that they had to make all these other trade-offs right in order to have a super high resolution screen they had to put in all this more compute in order to power the higher-res screen and then all that compute needed a bigger battery so now the thing is really heavy so now it's uncomfortable to wear and and then like because of the screen that they chose as you move your head which you would if you're actually interacting if you're playing games like the the kind of image blurs a bit and that's kind of annoying

第二段：我曾经简单计算过苹果推出的各种随机规则，如果这些规则不存在的话，我想我们公司可能能够赚两倍的利润。这还只是我们公司的情况，其他许多小公司可能由于苹果设定的限制和“税收”政策根本无法生存。所以我觉得这是个大问题，我希望苹果能够专注于制造好的产品，而不是通过给自己产品提供优势来竞争。我相信他们会在某些产品上这么做，比如我们和Ray-Ban合作开发的另一个类别——优秀的AI眼镜。我确信苹果会尝试推出类似的产品，然后利用其与手机连接的优势。实际上，他们也这样做了，例如他们的AR眼镜，不过它并不成功。那款产品没有真正融入其生态系统，毕竟他们推出了一个3500美元的产品，我认为不如我们售价300或400美元的产品。因此，这显然效果不佳。当然，作为一家优秀的技术公司，苹果的第二代和第三代产品可能会比第一代好。不过，Vision Pro应该算是他们长时间以来对新事物的一个较大尝试之一，我不想过于苛刻，因为我们也做过很多第一版不太好的产品。在评判一项产品时，最好看它的第三版。Vision Pro的第一版确实未能令人惊艳。我听说它用来看电影非常不错，因为它的屏幕非常清晰。所以，如果你需要一种不需要在VR中频繁移动，而且只需最高画质显示的体验，那么在这种情况下，Vision Pro会比我们的Quest（混合现实头显）表现更好。但为了达到这种效果，他们必须做出许多妥协。为了让屏幕拥有高分辨率，需要更多的计算能力来支持这些分辨率，从而需要更大的电池，这使得设备很重，因此佩戴起来不太舒服。而且因为他们选择的屏幕，当你移动头部时（比如在玩游戏时），图像会有些模糊，这就很让人窝火了。

Paragraph 1: wouldn't so it's actually worse for things where you're moving around in but now for the if you're gonna sit if you're like on a flight and you want to have a thirty five hundred dollar device that you use to to to watch videos vision pro is better for that use case they're really good at keeping you in their walled garden that's what they're really good at yeah I mean the the whole thing that they've done with iMessage where they basically they do this whole blue bubble green bubble thing and it basically i mean they're like for kids it's just sort of like they embarrass you right there like if you don't have a blue bubble you're not cool and you're like the out crowd and then they always wrap it in like security it's like oh well we we do this blue bubble because of security

翻译成中文并表达意思： 如果是在需要四处走动的情况下，Vision Pro 的效果其实更差。但如果你要坐下来，比如说你在飞机上，希望有一台价值3500美元的设备用来观看视频，那么 Vision Pro 在这种情况下就比较合适。苹果公司很擅长把你留在他们的封闭生态系统中。他们真的在这方面做得很厉害。就像他们在 iMessage 上所做的一切，通过蓝色气泡和绿色气泡来区分用户。对于孩子们来说，如果你没有蓝色气泡，你就不酷，显得好像是格格不入的。他们总是用安全性来包装这一切，说我们因为安全而采用蓝色气泡。

Paragraph 2: meanwhile the google and others have this whole protocol to be able to do encrypted text messages that um finally i think apple was forced to implement it rcs yeah yeah i think like i think it was the chinese government that basically ended up forcing them to do it or some other government but it's still not encrypted even when you're sending rcs text messages i don't think it's encrypted i thought it was but maybe i think it's only encrypted google to google phones i don't think it's encrypted i phone to google phones or google phones to i phones because i i think that was actually uh plus is the fbi someone released that telling people that if they're talking about sensitive things they should use encrypted apps

同时，谷歌和其他公司已经制定了一整套协议来实现加密短信，我觉得最终苹果被迫实施了这个协议，叫做 RCS。对，我觉得可能是中国政府或者其他政府最终迫使他们这么做的。但即便你在发送 RCS 短信时，这些消息仍然没有加密。我原以为是加密的，但可能只有谷歌手机之间是加密的。我认为苹果手机和谷歌手机之间或谷歌手机和苹果手机之间的通信并没有加密。另外，有人透露 FBI 建议人们在讨论敏感话题时使用加密的应用程序。

Paragraph 3: like what's up see we can find that it was something where they were saying that contrary to popular belief that rcs texting to iphone yes g sma implement and encryption for rcs messaging can we say i'm not a good answer i'm trying to find a oh okay i don't have anything to show you yet i was trying to read yeah so so google rcs to like i don't know if this android phone to android phone is encrypted with rcs i think the issue comes with it going from so like say google google this google rcs texting to iphones is it encrypted rcs texting to iMessage is it encrypted i'm pretty sure it's not i might be wrong i don't think i am i'm pretty sure i read that and the problem was they won't let any other phone use the iMessage protocol and they had a company that was doing it called beeper and they were doing it through some sort of work around

第三段：例如，有人说“你知道吗，我们可以发现，虽然大家普遍认为，RCS短信发到iPhone上是存在问题的，但实际上GSM的RCS消息可以实现加密。”不过我还没有找到明确的答案。我现在没有任何东西可以展示给你看，我还在尝试阅读。所以，像是谷歌的RCS，我不确定Android手机之间通过RCS发送的信息是否加密。问题似乎在于RCS消息从谷歌传到iPhone，比如说RCS短信到iMessage，这是否加密，我几乎肯定不是，不过我可能错了，我几乎肯定在哪读过这个。问题在于，他们不允许其他手机使用iMessage协议。有一家公司叫Beeper正在尝试通过某种变通的方法来实现。

Paragraph 4: yeah it's not encrypted yeah that's what i'm saying yeah so it's not so you're you are getting the ability to send high resolution images which is great because you know like my friend brian who used an android he'd send me a video and it'd be this tiny little broken down box because you know you had to break it down to the lowest resolution yeah now i mean group chats when you have a bunch of people in iMessage and then one person as an android are terrible i mean that's we get a ton of people people get mad at you because you know i use whatsapp so i use whatsapp if you only use that i i'll i only communicate with a few people over sms but it's um but it's basically i i mean i mean i build you know a lot of uh leading messaging services so i've got to use ours i i most people i mean there's whatsapp or instagram direct or messenger um but yeah um so i think it's it's maybe maybe people are less less uh likely to get mad at me for asking them to use whatsapp because uh because you know we make whatsapp

中文翻译（易读）： 是的，它没有加密，对，我就是这个意思。这样你就能发送高分辨率的图片，这很好。比如我的朋友布赖恩，他用的是安卓设备，他每次给我发视频时，都会变成一个又小又模糊的盒子，因为你得把视频压缩到最低分辨率。现在，在iMessage上进行群聊时，如果只有一个人用安卓，聊天体验真的很糟糕。很多人因此会生气，因为我用的是WhatsApp。我只用WhatsApp，很少通过短信跟几个人沟通。但基本上，我开发了很多领先的消息服务，所以我得使用我们自己的产品。大多数人用的是WhatsApp或者Instagram Direct或者Messenger。所以，我觉得现在可能比较少人因为我让他们用WhatsApp而生气，因为毕竟，是我们开发了WhatsApp。

Paragraph 5: yeah so when um Tucker Carlson was about to interview Vladimir Putin one of the things that was really disturbing was they contacted him and said they read his signal messages and they knew that he was gonna interview Vladimir Putin and he was like what the fuck who did the the government the u.s yes u.s government i forget what it was was the cia or was the fbi wow i forget who it was um but and he was like i didn't even know you could do that like well there are multiple vulnerabilities and all this stuff it's like it's unclear if i doubt that what they did was they broke signal um because that encryption i think is pretty good as is whatsapp i mean it's basically signal and whatsapp use the same encryption it's it's an open source and it's like it's a nsa um nsa okay but someone could break into your phone and see everything that's on your phone but the thing that encryption does that's really good is um it makes it so that the company that's running the service doesn't see it so if you

第五段：所以，当塔克·卡尔森准备采访弗拉基米尔·普京时，有件事情让人非常不安。他接到通知说他们读了他的Signal信息，他们知道他将要采访普京。他当时就震惊地问，"这是谁干的？" 是哪个政府？美国政府？对，是美国政府，我记不清是CIA还是FBI。哇，我忘了是谁了。他当时表示自己都不知道他们能这样做。事实上，虽然Signal有多个漏洞，但还没有明确的证据显示他们破解了Signal的加密，因为这种加密我认为相当不错，像WhatsApp也用的是类似的加密。这是一种开源加密，涉及NSA。不过，有人可以入侵你的手机并查看你手机上的一切。而加密的重要作用在于，它确保提供服务的公司看不到你的信息。

Paragraph 1: 're using whatsapp basically when i text you on whatsapp there's no point at which the meta servers see the contents of that message unless like you know we took a photo of it or shared that back to meta in some other way um that basically it cuts out the company completely from it which is i think really important for a bunch of reasons one is people might not trust the company but also just security issues right like let's say someone hacks into meta which you know we try really hard to make it so they can't and we haven't had many issues with that over the 20 years of running the company but in theory if someone did then they'd be able to access everyone's messages if it weren't encrypted but because it's encrypted there's just nothing there right it's like i mean they can't hack into meta and then get access to your messages so now someone like the nsa or cia would have to kind of hack into your phone which um you know there are probably ways to do that Pegasus i mean there are probably a bunch of ways yeah there's probably ways we don't know of yeah and then of course there's always the ultimate kind of physical part of it which is if you have access to the computer you can usually just break in right so that's why you know if the fbi you know arrests you and takes your phone they're probably going to be able to get in and see what's there um so what's happening encrypted

段落 1： 在使用WhatsApp的时候，当我给你发送消息时，Meta的服务器不会看到该消息的内容，除非我们拍下这条消息的照片或者通过其他方式分享给Meta。基本上，这种方式完全排除了公司的参与，我认为这非常重要，原因有很多。首先，有些人可能不信任公司，其次是安全问题。比如说，假设有人入侵了Meta，公司一直努力防止这样的事情发生，并且在过去20年的运营中几乎没有遇到过这样的问题，但理论上如果有人入侵了，他们就可以访问每个人的消息。然而，由于消息是加密的，他们实际上什么也看不到。即使成功入侵Meta，也无法访问你的消息。因此，现在像NSA或CIA这样的组织必须设法入侵你的手机，当然这可能有很多方式，比如Pegasus软件，或者还有其他我们不知道的方法。此外，还有一层终极的物理手段，即如果你能接触到计算机，通常可以强行进入。因此，如果FBI逮捕了你并拿走了你的手机，他们很可能就会能够破解手机并查看其中的内容。这就是为什么信息加密非常重要。

Paragraph 2: but if someone has something like Pegasus what they do is have access to your phone so it doesn't matter if anything's encrypted they could just see it in plain sight yeah then i mean this is one of the reasons why we put disappearing messages in because that way oh yeah if someone has compromised your phone and they can see everything that's going on there then obviously they can see stuff as it comes in but i kind of in general just you know i think we should keep around as little of that stuff as possible so there are some threads where you know it's like there's photos that get shared you want the photos but i think for a lot of threads a lot of people just you know you know wouldn't be i don't think most people would miss it if most of the contents of their threads just disappeared after seven days right um you know what i find is i don't i don't use it that much because we have this like corporate policy at meta that we need to retain all our our documents and messages and stuff but

第二段： 但是，如果有人拥有像“飞马”这样的东西，他们就可以访问你的手机，所以即使信息是加密的也无所谓，他们依然可以看到所有内容。所以，这也是我们引入“阅后即焚消息”的原因之一。因为如果你的手机被攻破，他们能看到所有的东西，那当然他们能够看到消息进来的时候内容。但我一般认为，我们应该尽量减少那些内容的留存。有一些对话中有一些共享的照片，你会想保存下来，但我觉得对于很多对话来说，大多数人其实并不会介意如果他们的对话内容在七天后自动消失。至于我自己，我发现我不怎么用这个功能，因为我们在Meta有一个公司政策，需要保留所有的文件和消息。

Paragraph 1: um um but before we had that i i used it as we were developing this and every once in a while i would miss something and say wow i kind of wish i could go back and see that but it was very rare i think most communication it's kind of like you just have the communication and then you're done so having it be encrypted and disappearing i think is a pretty good kind of standard of security and privacy and you can set that disappearing time on what's up right you can make it one day if you want yeah you can do one day you can do seven days um and you can also set it across all your threads so you can have a default timer so that way as new threads get created your default timer just becomes the default for all those threads so i know that's a it's a really good feature and i basically think what's app and signal are probably the two most secure that are out there um on that and of those two i think what zap is just used by a lot more people so i think it's it's generally you know i i mean i would say this because it's it's it's our product but i do think it's it's the better product but but i think what's happened signal are basically you know the two most secure ones

在我们开发这个功能之前，我会经常用它。有时候，我会错过一些信息，然后就想要是能回过去看看就好了，不过这种情况其实很少。大多数交流就像是完成一次沟通任务。所以，把信息加密并设置为自动消失，我认为是一个很好的安全和隐私标准。在WhatsApp上，你可以设置信息消失的时间，比如一天或者七天。你甚至可以在所有的聊天中设定一个默认的计时器，这样新开的聊天就会自动应用这个时间设置。我觉得这是一个很不错的功能。基本上，我认为WhatsApp和Signal这两个应用是现有中最安全的。在这两者中，WhatsApp的使用人数更多，因此我觉得——当然这可能因为这是我们的产品——我认为它是更好的产品。不过，我依然认为WhatsApp和Signal是最安全的两个。

Paragraph 1: what was your take on that guy getting arrested as the CEO of telegram oh man um that's kind of crazy one right yeah i mean it's always a little difficult to weigh in on these situations without knowing all the specifics but one of the government tactics that i've seen that i think is pretty the is not great is an increasing number of governments when they like have an issue with something that a company is doing basically just like threatened to throw the executives of that company in prison and it's like i think that that's just a really weird precedent to set right it's like it's if if the you have all the so it's like we're operating in all these different countries and then like you have all these governments that are basically like if you i don't we're gonna like put on an interpol notice to like get you arrested because you're not doing the thing that we want it's like i don't know i don't i think that's like not great i think you want the um i mean obviously you don't want people to just be like flagrantly violating the laws but like there are laws in different countries that we disagree with right

第1段：你怎么看待那个人被逮捕成为Telegram的CEO这件事，哇，这真是有点疯狂，对吧？我的意思是，在不知道所有细节的情况下，参与这些事情的讨论总是有些困难。但我看到有些政府采取的一种策略，我觉得不太好，就是越来越多的政府，当他们对公司的一些行为有问题时，基本上就威胁要把公司的高管关进监狱。我觉得这树立了一个非常奇怪的先例。如果我们在不同的国家运营业务，那么这些国家的政府基本上就像，如果你不按照他们的要求做事，他们就会发出国际刑警组织的通告来逮捕你。我觉得这样做不好。显然，我们不希望人们公然违反法律，但我们对某些国家的法律也有不同的看法。

Paragraph 1: so for example there was a point at which i think i was someone was trying to get me sentenced to death and Pakistan because they thought that oh because someone on facebook had a picture of where they had the drawing of the prophet mohammed and someone said that that's blasphemy in our culture and they brought a they basically like sued me and they opened this criminal proceeding and i don't even know exactly where it went because i'm just not planning on going to Pakistan so i was not that worried about it but but like but but it was a little bit disconcerting it was like all right fine like these guys are like trying to like like kill you okay it's not great right you know it's terrible not yeah i mean it's i feel like i yeah it's like flying over that region you don't want your plane to like go down above Pakistan if that thing it goes through but um but that one was sort of avoidable but the point is like there are all these places around the world that just have different values right that go against like our free expression values and want us to crack down and and ban way more stuff than i think you know a lot of people that we would believe is like the right thing to do and to have those governments be able to exert the power of saying okay we're gonna like throw you in prison is um that's a lot of force i mean so i i think it's it's generally yeah i think that this is one of the things that that the u.s government is probably going to need to help defend the american tech companies for abroad but i i can't weigh in that much um the durov specific thing because i don't know what was going on there you know

在某个时候，我觉得有人试图让我在巴基斯坦被判死刑。事情是这样的：在Facebook上，有人上传了一张画有先知穆罕默德的图片，然后有人说这是在我们的文化里是亵渎神灵的行为。于是，他们基本上就起诉了我，并展开了刑事诉讼。我甚至不知道这个事情后来进展如何，因为我根本没打算去巴基斯坦，所以不太担心这个问题。但这个事情有点令人不安，就好像，好吧，他们真的想要致我于死地，这显然是不好的，甚至是可怕的。我感觉，嗯，飞越那个地区的时候，你不想你的飞机在巴基斯坦上空出故障，万一诉讼成功就麻烦了。不过，这件事算是可以避免的。关键是，世界上有许多地方有着不同的价值观，与我们倡导的言论自由的价值观相悖，并要求我们禁止更多的内容，这与我们许多人认为的正确做法相违背。这些政府能够动用权力说要把你下狱，这是很大的压力。我认为，美国政府可能需要在海外帮助捍卫美国科技公司。不过，我对于Durov的具体情况不太了解，所以不能多加评论。

Paragraph 1: when you're dealing with the government trying to interfere with facebook um how much of a fear was there that they were going to get away with it and that this was going to be the future of communication online that it was going to they were going to be successful with all this that they would push these things through somehow or another especially if a even less tolerant administration got into power they would change laws and they would do things to make it possible like how how much did that concern you well we basically just reached a point where we pushed back on all the stuff right so they were pushing us to censor stuff we were unwilling to do it we developed a very adversarial and bad relationship with our own government which i think is just not healthy because i think you know it's um i mean in in theory i think you know it would be good if the like american industry had a positive relationship with the american government um but then what that happened is then the the kind of u.s government was going after us in all these ways

当你面对政府试图干预Facebook时，你有多担心他们会成功让这种干预成为网络交流的未来？尤其是如果一个更不宽容的政府上台，他们可能会修改法律，采取措施让这种情况成为可能。对此你有多担忧？实际上，我们到达了一个点，开始反击所有这些事情。他们想让我们审查内容，但我们不愿意这么做，因此我们与自己的政府形成了一种对立且不好的关系。我认为这并不健康，因为理论上来说，美国工业如果能和美国政府保持良好关系，会是件好事。但结果是，美国政府以各种方式在追着我们不放。

Paragraph 2: but fortunately in the u.s you know we have good rule of law so our view is at the end of the day okay these investors agencies can open up investigations and we'll just defend ourselves right we'll go to court and we'll win all the cases because we're you know we follow the rules and um so i think it ends up being a big kind of political issue where it's like it would just be you could get a lot more done if the government were helping american companies rather than kind of slowing you down at every step along the way it makes you a little afraid that if you ever actually mess something up that they're really going to bring the hammer down on you if you don't have a constructive relationship but um but i don't know it's mostly i mean going back to the AI conversation it's like i just think like we should all want the american companies to win at this right

第二段：幸运的是，在美国，我们拥有健全的法治。因此，我们的观点是，这些调查机构可以展开调查，我们会通过法律程序为自己辩护，会赢得所有案件，因为我们是遵循规则的。我认为这最终会成为一个很大的政治问题。如果政府能够帮助美国公司而不是在每个环节上拖后腿，那会更有效率。这让人有点担心，要是你真做错了什么，他们可能会对你采取严厉措施，特别是如果你们之间没有一个建设性关系。但是，我不知道，回到人工智能的话题上，我只是觉得我们都应该希望美国的公司能够在这方面取得胜利。

Paragraph 3: it's like this is like a huge geo political competition and like jina's running out at super hard and like we should want the american companies in the american standard to win and like if there's going to be an open source model that everyone uses like we should want it to be an american model right it's like the there's this great chinese model that just came out this company deep-seek they're doing really good work um it's a very advanced model and if you ask it for any negative opinions about shijin pang it will not give you anything if you ask it if tianimin square happened it will deny it right so i think that there are like all these things where we we should we should want the american model to win

这段文字像是在说，这是一场巨大的地缘政治竞争，中国在这方面做得特别努力，所以我们应该希望美国公司和美国的标准能取胜。如果要有一个所有人都使用的开源模型，我们应该希望它是一个美国的模型。最近有一个非常优秀的中国模型由一个叫深势的公司推出，他们做得非常好，是一个非常先进的模型。如果你询问关于习近平的负面意见，它不会给出任何内容；如果你问天安门事件是否发生过，它会否认。因此，我认为我们应该希望美国的模型能够胜出。

Paragraph 1: but even if it were right it's like if i mean i i i think that still unbalanced knowing everything that we we know now stilling it's good for more people to get the vaccine but the government still needs to play by the rules in terms of you know not like can't just suppress true things in order to make your case so i i that's that's kind of my my view on on it is is i'm not sure in that case how much of it was like a personal political gain that they were going for i think that they had a a kind of goal that they thought was in the interests of the country and the way they went about it i think violated the law well there's a bunch of problems with that right there's the emergency use authorization that they needed in order to get this pushed through and you can't have that without valid with with valid therapeutics being available and so they suppressed valid therapeutics so they're suppressing real information that would lead to people being healthy and successful in defeating this disease and they did that so that they could have this one solution and this was fauci's game plan i mean this is the movie american buyers club or dallas buyers club brother that's fauci in that movie that was with the age crisis this is exact same game plan that was played out with the covid vaccine they pushed one solution this only one suppressed all therapeutics through propaganda through suppressing monoclonal antibodies like all of it and that was done in my opinion for profit and they did that because it was extremely profitable the amount of money that was made yeah was extraordinary during that time yeah and but look i mean i feel like a bunch of the conversation is focused on tension with the american government i guess just the point that i'd underscore is that it's important to have this working in the american government because it is like the us constitution and like our culture here is really good compared to a lot of other places right so whatever issues we think might exist here you go to other places and it's like really extreme yeah and you don't even and and there it's like you don't even necessarily have the rule of law right right and um so i just think that like the way that this stuff works well is yeah i think if if there was a clearer strategy in the the us government understood believe that it's good to kind of help advance this industry because it's strategically important for the country um then i think it would it would be good to basically push back on stuff that's happening in other countries that's actually a lot more extreme than the stuff that's happening in the us yeah i agree as well listen um is there anything else you want to talk about before we wrap this up then we're good i don't know i mean how long we've been going for three hours yeah i mean well i feel like we touched on we touched on ai we touched on all the augmented and virtual reality stuff and i think that that stuff is just going to be wild it's wild the the your ar technology that you showed me today is very impressive it's crazy uh lex and i were playing pong like apart from a table from each other i was playing some crazy game where my fingers got tired because you shoot

翻译： 即使在这一假设成立的情况下，我仍然认为，从我们现在掌握的所有信息来看，让更多人接种疫苗是有益的。但是，政府仍需按照规则行事，不能为了证明自己的观点而压制真实的事情。我对这种情况的看法是，我不确定其中有多少是个人政治利益的驱动。我认为，他们出于对国家利益的考虑制定了某种目标，而在执行过程中可能违反了法律。这其中有很多问题，比如为了获得紧急使用授权，而在有效治疗方法存在时，是无法获得该授权的。他们压制了有效的治疗手段，压制了能够让人们健康并成功对抗疾病的真实信息，只为推行一种解决方案。这正是福奇的计划，就像电影《达拉斯买家俱乐部》中的情节一样。当时，他们通过宣传手段压制了所有疗法，包括单克隆抗体之类的，目的是为了盈利，因为在那段时间赚到的钱确实非常惊人。不过，我觉得许多讨论的焦点在于与美国政府的紧张关系。我要强调的一点是，让美国政府在这方面运作良好是很重要的，因为与其他地方相比，美国的宪法和文化已经是非常好的。无论我们认为这里存在哪些问题，你到其他地方去看看，情况可能更加极端，甚至可能没有法治。因此，我认为，如果美国政府有更清晰的战略意识到推动这个行业有利于国家利益，那就应该对比美国情况更极端的国家的做法进行抵制。对，我也同意这个看法。还有什么想谈的内容吗？如果没有，我们就此结束？我不知道，我们聊了多久？三小时？是的，我觉得我们谈到了很多内容，包括人工智能、增强现实和虚拟现实的东西，我真的觉得这些东西会非常惊艳。你今天展示的增强现实技术很厉害，简直疯狂。我和Lex还在一起玩乒乓球，隔着桌子，我玩了一个让我手指酸痛的疯狂游戏。

Paragraph 1: but like at every step along the way if the government is sort of making that harder rather than easier than that's i don't know i mean there's there's an extent to which okay the american tech industry is leading so maybe the government can like get in the way a little bit and maybe the the american industry will still lead but i don't know it's i think it's getting really competitive and i i i think like it's easy for the government to take for granted that the u.s. will lead on all these things when i i think it's a very close competition and we need the help not you know we need them to not kind of like you know be be be be a force that's helping us to to do these things i completely agree but i think that people with their own self-interest when they're in power and they realize that these new technologies like instagram and facebook that they are interfering with their ability to administer propaganda or that they're their ability to control the narrative that that's where they get short-sighted and that's when they act in their own personal interest and not in the interest of not in either national security or the future of the united states in terms of our ability to stay technologically ahead yeah and some of this is just you know if you go back to the covid example i think in that case they were doing something their goal of trying to get everyone to get vaccinated was actually i think a good goal right it's like i i was a good goal if it worked if it was real like if it was a sterilizing vaccine if it really did prevent people from getting covid if it really did prevent people from infecting others or transmitting it but it didn't well but but it wasn't a good deal because it wasn't based on real data yeah but but also even like this because you're using v1 of the neural interface yeah no it's like it's like in the future it'll just be this it is just like it was really fun though it's really cool and it's it's you see where this is all going you know it's really really fascinating stuff and i'm very excited about it did you get a chance to use the right bands in the ai in them yes we did that too and we did translate to where one of your uh one of your co-workers were so speaking to me in spanish and it was translating it to me in my ear in real time in english which is really interesting nice amazing it's really cool and then you could also do it on the phone so you could show it to the person on the phone so you don't have to say the words like it's really fascinating stuff

翻译成中文，力求意思清晰易懂： 但就像一路走来的每一步一样，如果政府是在使事情变得更困难而不是更容易，那就不知道了。我是说，美国科技行业是领先的，所以也许政府可以稍微从中作梗，但美国的科技行业可能仍会领先。但我不确定，我觉得竞争真的非常激烈，我认为政府很容易认为美国在所有这些方面都会领先，而实际上竞争非常接近，我们需要帮助，而不是让他们成为阻碍我们的力量，帮助我们去做这些事情。我完全同意，但我觉得那些在位的人因个人利益而短视，尤其当他们意识到像Instagram和Facebook这样的新技术干扰他们掌控宣传或者控制话语权的能力时，而在这种情况下，他们会为了自己的利益行事，而不是出于国家安全或者美国在技术上保持领先地位的未来考虑。 有些事情，如果你回想一下新冠疫情的例子，政府的目标是让所有人接种疫苗，这其实是个好目标。是的，如果疫苗能够真正有效：如果它是灭菌疫苗，如果它真的可以防止人们感染新冠病毒，防止人们传染给他人。但事实并非如此，因为这不是基于真实数据的好办法。而且就像你正在用神经接口的第一版一样，这件事在未来将只是...它就像是一个很有趣的东西。你可以看到它的前景，非常非常吸引人，我对此感到非常兴奋。你有机会使用带有AI的环吗？是的，我们也做了这个，并且我们还测试了翻译功能，你的一个同事用西班牙语对我说话，而耳机实时将其翻译成英语，对我来说这非常有趣；非常棒。这真的很酷，你还可以在手机上显示给别人，所以你不必说那些词，这非常迷人。

Paragraph 1: yeah so i mean we're just sort of coming at it from both sides right it's like the the ribbons are like okay given a good looking pair of glasses what's all the technology you can put into that today and still have it be you know just a few hundred dollars and then the Orion thing is like all right we're building the kind of future thing that we want and we're doing our best to miniaturize it it's basically like still pretty small yeah i mean just thicker glasses yeah and i i think we want it to be a little smaller we need to be a lot cheaper right each pair right now costs more than ten thousand dollars to make and that's you're not gonna have a successful consumer product of that so we have to miniaturize it more but i mean the amount of stuff that we put in there from it's like effectively like what would have been considered a super computer like ten or twenty years ago plus you know lasers in the arms and the like nano etchings on the on the lens to be able to see it and then the microphone and the speaker and the Wi-Fi to be able to connect with the other it's just like like a wild amount of technology to kind of miniaturize into something that one's really fun we've been working on that for ten years um

是这样的，我们从两个方面来看这个问题。首先，"獎帶"这个项目关注的是在一副外观不错的眼镜中加入尽可能多的现代技术，同时价格保持在几百美元。而"猎户座"项目则是我们试图打造一种未来产品，并努力将其小型化。现在来看，它的体积已经相当小，只是眼镜稍微厚了一些。我们希望能进一步缩小体积，并且需要大幅降低成本。目前，每副眼镜的制造成本超过一万美元，这样的价格显然无法成为成功的消费产品。因此，我们需要继续努力让它们更小型化。实际上，我们已经在这副眼镜中植入了很多过去十或二十年前的超级计算机才具备的功能，还有眼镜腿上的激光技术和镜片上的纳米蚀刻工艺，此外还有麦克风、扬声器和Wi-Fi功能用来连接设备。这真的是一项疯狂的技术挑战，但也特别有趣。我们在这上面已经投入了十年的时间。

Paragraph 2: but yeah i think i think between that the glasses um all the ai stuff um yeah all the social media stuff yeah i know i i think we covered it and i'm very excited about this new stance that you guys are taking i think the community notes thing is a brilliant idea that you know x is implemented and i think i'm glad i am really glad that you guys are implementing it too i think it's the way and the way generally i think we both agree is that people have to have the ability to communicate they have to have the ability to express themselves and that's how we find out what's real and what's not yeah i i think the more voice is the is the answer on this yes yes and i think after a after sort of a long journey i'm glad to be able to take it back to the roots and i feel like we're more fortified now in the position well i think one of the lessons that people have learned over the last few years with the suppression of information is that that's not good and there's a giant percentage of the population that feels that way and even people that are progressive and liberals are on the they were on the side of the people that were pushing the the suppression of information still don't think it's right i think most people generally believe in the first amendment in this country and then we realize how valuable it is to have the freedom of expression

第二段：是的，我觉得我们已经涵盖了眼镜、人工智能以及社交媒体的内容，对你们的新立场感到兴奋。我认为社区笔记是一个绝妙的主意，x已经实现了它，我很高兴你们也在实施它。我认为这是应该走的方向，总的来说，我们都同意人们必须有能力沟通，要能表达自己，这样才能分辨出什么是真，什么是假。我相信更多的声音才是解决之道。经历了一段漫长的旅程，我很高兴能把它带回到最初的出发点，现在我们在这个立场上更加坚定。过去几年中，人们认识到信息压制是不好的，有很多人对此感受深刻，即便是一些进步派人士和自由派人士，他们曾经支持信息压制，但现在也认为那是不对的。我想，大多数人一般都信仰这个国家的第一修正案，并开始意识到言论自由的宝贵价值。

Paragraph 3: yeah anyway thanks for having me thank you mark pretty happy bye everybody

段落 3：好的，总之，谢谢你们邀请我。谢谢你，Mark。我很开心。再见，各位！