Tesla vs Detroit | Tales From the Tipping Point | 5
发布时间 2022-05-04 15:01:00 来源
摘要
Electric vehicles have come a long way over the past century, and now, with gas prices at record highs, more and more drivers are thinking about taking the plunge (if they can get their hands on one).Today, we’re road-tripping through the electric vehicle landscape of today and tomorrow with Aarian Marshall, a Staff Writer for Wired. Her piece, It’s a Perfect Time for EVs. It’s a Terrible Time for EVs, explores the tipping point we’ve reached in the EV world. Next up, Dana Hull, a reporter for Bloomberg covering Tesla, walks us through her coverage of the racial discrimination lawsuit Tesla faces, and what it means for the company’s future.Listen to new episodes 1 week early and to all episodes ad free with Wondery+. Join Wondery+ for exclusives, binges, early access, and ad free listening. Available in the Wondery App. https://wondery.app.link/businesswarsPlease support us by supporting our sponsors!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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Wendry! Wendry! Hey, I'm David Brown and this is Business Wars. With gas prices soaring to record highs, everyone seems to have EVs on the brain. They're an alternative to gasoline fuel cars, of course, and they're really gaining steam.
嗨，我是大卫·布朗，这里是商战节目。汽油价格飙升创历史新高，每个人似乎都在考虑电动汽车。当然，它们是汽油车的一种替代品，现在它们真的很受欢迎。
Much of that is thanks to Tesla, the startup that marketed EVs as the cool, exclusive choice before going on to produce more affordable options. But behind the scenes, Tesla's mission to deliver clean vehicles to the masses has been bruised by contentious conduct in the workplace.
很大一部分原因要归功于特斯拉这家初创公司，他们在推广电动汽车时打造了酷炫、独具特色的形象，然后又推出了更为实惠的选项。但在幕后，特斯拉实现让大众拥有清洁的汽车的使命则受到了内部工作场所争议性的行为所损害。
Later on, we're going to be joined by Bloomberg's Dana Ho, who's been closely covering reports of racism at one California factory and the lawsuit Tesla faces as a result. More on that in just a bit, but first we're going to road trip through the EV landscape of today and tomorrow.
接下来，我们将会邀请彭博社的达纳·何加入我们，她一直密切关注着加州一家工厂的种族主义报告和特斯拉所面临的诉讼。稍后我们会详细讨论这个问题，但首先我们将会探索今天和未来的电动汽车领域。
Take a look at what life on the road is like for drivers who've given up gas guzzlers once and for all. Riding along with us is Ariane Marshall. She is a staff writer at Wired, covering transportation.
来看看那些彻底舍弃了油耗车的司机们是如何度过在路上的生活的。陪伴我们前行的是Ariane Marshall。她是《连线》杂志的职员作家，负责交通报道。
Ariane, welcome to Business Wars.
Ariane，欢迎来到商战。
Thanks for having me.
谢谢你邀请我来。
I want to start by asking what first drew you to reporting on the EV beat for Wired in the first place? The climate, the cars, the Silicon Valley connection? Why?
我想先问一下，是什么吸引你开始为《连线》报道与电动汽车有关的新闻？是气候因素、汽车本身还是硅谷的联系呢？为什么？
That's a great question in my best sort of fun fact that I always use is that I am a transportation reporter who doesn't have a driver's license. I'm from New York City and try and to rep, even as I'm on the west coast by continuing to not have my driver's license. So I wouldn't say it's the cars exactly that drove me to cover electric vehicles. It's just such a fascinating time right now to cover this space. So many things in the automotive world are changing.
这是个很好的问题。其实有一个趣闻，就是我是一个交通记者，却没有驾照。我来自纽约市，尽管现在在西海岸，我仍然保持不拥有驾照的身份。所以我不会说是汽车驱动了我去报道电动车，而是现在是个非常迷人的时代来关注这个领域。汽车界有很多东西正在改变。
The number of people that have to come together to help accomplish this, it's such an interesting huge project and I think that's what drove me to cover it.
需要聚集在一起协助完成这个庞大有趣的项目的人数很多，我认为这正是推动我去报道它的原因。
So you don't drive?
你不开车吗？
I don't drive, it's true. Well, I guess if we're going to go with this riding along metaphor, I've got to take the wheel. Maybe we can just put it on autopilot if Elon Musk will ever get around to getting that in all the cars. I'm a very good navigator, a good passenger, so I'm here.
我不开车，这是真的。好吧，我想如果我们要用乘车的比喻，我就得开车了。也许如果马斯克终于把自动驾驶弄到所有车上，我们可以让它自动导航。我是个很好的导航员和乘客，所以我在这里。
Alright. Well, let's turn up the tunes. Maybe we should turn them down. Folks, get here.
好的。那么，让我们调高音乐。也许我们应该把它们调低。大家，来这里。
Seems like we're always wondering if we've reached the tipping point when it comes to the EV taking over, right? And if you look around the streets, yeah, you see a lot more Teslas, but far more internal combustion powered cars, right? From your reporting, Ariane, what do you think are the biggest incentives for people to make the jump right now?
好像我们总是在想，电动汽车什么时候能够完全取代传统车呢？你看街上开着很多特斯拉，但是传统汽油车还是更多。从你的报道中，Ariane，你认为现在人们最大的激励是什么？
The biggest incentive lately over just the past few months or so has been the dramatic rise in gas prices that we've seen all over the US and all over the world.
最近几个月来最大的刺激，就是我们在全美国和全世界看到的油价急剧上涨。
And that's gotten a lot of people who were kind of interested in EVs to say, okay, I'm sick of this. I don't want to pay these prices anymore. I'm going to go ahead and really seriously look into buying electric vehicles.
那引起了许多对电动汽车有点兴趣的人说：“好吧，我受够了。我不想再付这些价格了。我要认真地考虑购买电动汽车了。”
The other thing that's making these things go mainstream right now is just that so many more automakers are introducing different makes and models.
现在让这些事情变得流行的另一件事就是有这么多更多的汽车制造商推出不同品牌和型号。
Over the next 12 to 18 months, there's going to be about 100 of them on the market in the US. So people have a lot more choices now than they used to. And you can buy the EV that fits your lifestyle. Well, that's a little sedan or one of these big trucks. You can buy an electric GM Hummer if you want. So there are a lot of different choices.
在接下来的12到18个月内，美国市场上会有大约100款电动汽车面世，这意味着人们现在能够有更多的选择。你可以购买适合你生活方式的电动汽车，无论是小轿车还是大卡车。如果你想要，你甚至可以购买一辆电动的GM Hummer。总之，有很多不同的选择。
Let me ask you about the confusion that seems to be out there, though, when it comes to hybrid versus EVs, not all electric vehicles are created equalized.
让我问一下你们，关于混合动力汽车和纯电动汽车的混淆问题，似乎存在一些疑惑。不是所有的纯电动汽车都是相等的。
That's true. I'm finding when I'm talking to people who are interested in going electric soon, hybrids feel like a really nice kind of middle option. Some of them actually plug in so you can get a number of miles, maybe 20 to 50 miles just on the battery. And then once the battery runs out, you revert back to, you know, traditional gasoline.
那是真的。我发现，当我与一些有兴趣尽快购买电动车的人谈话时，混合动力车感觉上好像是一种非常不错的中间选项。其中一些车实际上可以插电，你可以仅凭电池行驶20至50英里。当电池用完后，你就会回到传统汽油车的模式。
But the average American really only drives less than 40 miles a day. You know, if you're doing your commute back and forth from work or running your daily errands, you could probably do most of that on the battery part of a hybrid.
然而，普通美国人每天开车的里程实际上不超过40英里。你知道，如果你在上下班路上或跑日常差事，你大概可以在混合动力车的电池模式下完成大部分行驶。
But then there are also all these different battery electric options, which are cars that just only run on electricity.
但是也有许多不同的电池电动车选择，这些车只使用电力运行。
When we're talking tipping point, I suppose we can't overlook the fact that it seems like we are going out to meet the electric vehicle where it is, and we're still waiting for that electric vehicle to meet us where we are, you know, in terms of our lifestyle. You know what I'm saying?
当我们谈论转折点时，我想我们不能忽视这样一个事实，似乎我们正在去迎接电动汽车所在的地方，而我们仍然在等待那辆电动汽车来到我们所在的地方，也就是说我们需要适应我们的生活方式。你知道我在说什么吗？
Yeah. I think people can get really nervous about transitioning to EVs. But I think once people really sit down and think about how they're using their cars, it can be a lot less intimidating. People are rightfully worried about getting stranded on the side of the road because they can't find a charger wherever they are. And in fact, you know, these new cars that are coming out, these new electric cars have ranges that are in the 200 to 250 to even 300 mile range. And it's pretty rare that you're going to drive that far in one go unless you live in a rural area.
嗯，我觉得人们对转向电动汽车可能会感到非常紧张。但我认为，一旦人们真正坐下来思考他们如何使用汽车，这可能会变得不那么令人生畏。人们确实担心会因为无法找到充电器而被困在路边。实际上，你知道的，这些新车，这些新的电动汽车的续航里程在200到250甚至300英里的范围内。而且你要一次性开那么远的距离也相当罕见，除非你住在一个农村地区。
So if you're in the suburbs or you're in a city, it's not a bad option. It's actually really possible that it could fit into your lifestyle. There's a bit of a caveat there because that's definitely true of people who can charge at home, but there are a lot of people who can't for a lot of reasons. They live in apartment buildings. They rely on on street parking. So there are some, you know, interesting considerations there. And I think that still makes some people nervous, which is very fair.
如果你住在郊区或城市，买电动车并不是个坏选择。实际上，很可能会适合你的生活方式。但是值得注意的是，这对于那些可以在家里充电的人来说是肯定正确的，但是有很多人由于各种原因不能在家里充电。他们住在公寓楼里，他们依赖于路边停车。因此，这里有一些有趣的考虑因素。我认为这仍然会让一些人感到紧张，这是非常公正的。
Oh boy, you've opened up a whole can of worms here. We're going to take a short break first, but when we come back, well, it's board the evolution of EVs and some of the hurdles the market still faces. Stay with us.
哦，天哪，你开了个巨大的“潘多拉魔盒”。我们需要先稍做休息，然后再回来，讲述电动车的进化以及市场仍然面临的一些障碍。请继续关注我们。
Hi, I'm Sarah Haggi, co-host of Wonder East Podcasts, Scample Insurs.
嗨，我是莎拉·哈吉，Wonder East Podcasts和Scample Ins的联合主持人。
In our recent two-part series, Three Weddings and a Funeral, we dive into the story of a German con man who built an entire life on fake.
在我们最近的两篇文章《三场婚礼和一场葬礼》，我们深入探讨了一个德国骗子依靠虚假的身份建立了整个人生的故事。
The quality of the materials seemed to be really superior. And also this idea that EVs aren't exotic in the way that we used to think of it, that this was a car that you might see in, I don't know, in a Star Wars film or something. It was a car car. You know, it was ready for the road.
这种材料质量看起来真的很高级。而且现在电动车并不像我们过去想象的那样奇特，它是一辆真正的车，你可以在路上见到它。你知道，它已经准备好上路了，不像是什么《星球大战》电影里的车。
Yeah, definitely. When we think about any issue around environmental sustainability or going green, there can be a sort of like each your piece aspect to it. Like, you know, this isn't going to be pleasant. You are going to have to give up some things. Yeah. But it's better for the world so you should do it. And Tesla's aren't at all like that. They are cool cars and you don't have that aspect of a sacrifice to make your lifestyle more sustainable.
是的，绝对没错。当我们考虑到任何与环境可持续性或环保有关的问题时，它可能具有某种程度的牺牲方面。就像你知道的那样，这不会很愉快。你必须放弃一些东西。是的。但这对世界更好，所以你应该这么做。然而，特斯拉不是这样的。它们是很酷的汽车，你不需要做出牺牲来使你的生活方式更为可持续性。
Well, I've tried one. I rented a Model 3 and it was definitely cool in a straight line. No question about it. But I had to drive a ways about, you know, 30 minutes to get to the nearest supercharger. And I noticed that when it charged, it would tell me I had a range of something like 230 miles. Sounds great. But by the time I got home, which was like 15 miles away, I was already down to 190. And there is a lot of variability in that range. And I suppose I do have something of a of a led foot. But it's that day to day experience.
嗯，我试过一次。我租了一辆Model 3，直线加速确实非常棒。毫无疑问。但是我不得不开了一段路，大约30分钟才能到达最近的超级充电站。当它充电时，它告诉我有大约230英里的续航里程。听起来很棒。但是当我回家时，离我家只有15英里，我的续航里程已经降到了190英里。这个续航里程也有很大的可变性。我想我可能有点踩油门。但是这就是日常体验。
Do you think Tesla's infrastructure has gotten it to the point where it's a livable car? I think the supercharger network for Tesla is pretty good and arguably better than the networks for other manufacturers, electric vehicles. They've also been pretty thoughtful about putting some of those along highways that aren't necessarily super traveled by electric vehicles, but are going to be those kinds of places you're going to hit if you take your family on a road trip. But right now, somewhere between 80 to 90% of people who own electric vehicles are able to charge at home. And that means that they can come home every day and hook up their car and it can slowly charge up and I can wake up the next morning and drive away. If that's the way you're going to be living, I think that's pretty viable right now.
你认为特斯拉的基础设施已经让车变得实用了吗？我认为特斯拉的超级充电网络非常好，甚至可以说比其他制造商的电动车网络都好。他们还考虑到在一些不被电动车频繁使用的高速公路上安装一些超级充电站，但这些地方会是你带家人进行公路旅行必经之路。但现在，拥有电动车的人中大约80到90%能在家充电。这意味着他们可以每天回家插上电，慢慢充电，第二天早上起床就能开走。如果这是你的生活方式，我认为目前这非常可行。
What about availability? Yeah, this is the big bummer about where we are right now with electric vehicles. So there is so much demand right now because gas prices are so high and because the technology is really hitting it stride. At the same time, there are pandemic-related shortages that are continuing particularly and this is affecting all cars, not just electric vehicles, but particularly in the microchip area.
关于可用性怎么样？是啊，这就是我们目前电动汽车面临的大问题。现在因为油价高而且技术发展得非常好，所以存在很大的需求。同时，由于疫情相关的短缺问题仍然存在，这影响了所有汽车，而不仅仅是电动汽车，尤其是在微芯片领域。
So automakers back last year, some just stopped making cars for a while. They had just shut down their production lines because they didn't have enough chips. So that means that a lot of people want these cars and there are fewer of them than automakers would like to produce. So as you say, the result is higher prices and it can be hard to get your hands on one especially if you're someone who's a little cost sensitive. I mean, there are a lot of people who are pretty darn cost sensitive, right?
所以去年，汽车制造商们中有些人就停止了一段时间的汽车生产。他们关闭了生产线，因为他们没有足够的芯片。这意味着很多人想要这些车，但汽车制造商们所愿意生产的数量却比较少。所以，正如你所说，结果就是价格更高了，而且如果你是一个有一点成本敏感的人，可能很难得到一辆。我的意思是，有很多人非常在乎成本，对吗？
And it raises the question, who's left out of this EV pool and what's being done to fill in the gaps to make these cars more accessible? Yeah, absolutely and that's something that governments are thinking really seriously about how can we get electric vehicles into underserved communities, into low-income communities, into communities where because of various past social injustices, environmental injustices actually have really bad air quality. Wouldn't it be nice if we could get these electric cars into those kinds of neighborhoods? It's probably going to come down to eventually the used car market like it does for most people who buy cars.
这提出了一个问题，这些电动汽车池里有谁被忽略了，有什么措施填补这些空白，使这些汽车更容易获得？是的，绝对是这样的。政府非常认真地考虑如何将电动汽车引入未受关注的社区、低收入社区和因为各种社会不公和环境不公造成空气质量极差的社区。如果我们能将这些电动汽车引入这些社区，那不是很好吗？最终这可能要转向二手汽车市场，就像大多数购买汽车的人一样。
Now, of course, right now prices are up for those as well because of this big car shortage. But the hope is that eventually those used cars will make them more accessible to more people and the other nice news that we're starting to learn right now about electric vehicles is that their batteries actually last longer than even their manufacturers said they might at the outset. So a lot of people are worried about batteries breaking because they're so expensive and so heavy, but it turns out they're actually lasting years and years and years which is really exciting.
现在，当然，由于汽车短缺，二手车的价格也在上涨。但希望最终这些二手车会让更多的人买得起，而现在我们开始了解到有关电动汽车的好消息是，它们的电池实际上比制造商最初说的更耐用。所以很多人担心电池很容易坏，因为它们很贵，很重，但事实证明它们实际上可以持续多年，这真是令人兴奋的消息。
But then there's this other side of the equation and that's what happens to those batteries once those cars eventually do give out and all cars do. There have been questions about how much electricity is actually consumed by these cars just to charge them up. If we have mass adoption of EVs, do we even have the power and what are the environmental implications for building new power generating facilities, for example, how green are these cars?
但是，这个方程式的另一面是，当这些汽车最终退役并且所有车都会退役时，这些电池会发生什么。人们对这些汽车充电时实际消耗的电量有疑问。如果我们普及电动汽车，我们是否有足够的能源支持，并且新建电力发电设施会对环境产生怎样的影响？比如，这些车有多环保？
That's a great question. What I can tell you is that just using electricity in and of itself is not necessarily a problem for the environment, what's problem for the environment is how that electricity is made.
这是个非常好的问题。我可以告诉你的是，仅仅使用电能本身并不一定对环境有害，对环境有害的是电的发电方式。
So a lot of cities and metro areas have been doing a really good job recently of getting their power grids off of coal off of the most emissions packed energy sources and more into renewables and other alternative solar wind. So if you're charging your EV on a cleaner grid, then you're going to be much better off than people who are charging them on a dirty grid.
近来，许多城市和大都市的电网都做得非常好，逐渐放弃燃煤等使用排放最多的能源，转向使用可再生能源和其他替代能源，如太阳能和风能。所以，如果你在一个更清洁的电网上为你的电动汽车充电，那你将比那些在污染较严重的电网上为其充电的人更有益。
And we know that even if you compare one to one, the emissions of even an electric vehicle that's charged in a place that doesn't have the cleanest grid in the world, it's still better for the environment than if you're driving a conventional gas powered car.
我们知道，即使进行一对一比较，即使是在一个没有全球最干净的电网的地方充电的电动汽车的排放，对环境来说仍然比驾驶传统的燃油汽车更好。
I wonder if carbon aside, given the battery technology where those batteries ultimately wind up eventually, is it possible that we are trading off one environmental concern for another one down the line perhaps?
我在想，除了碳排放量之外，考虑到电池技术，这些电池最终会归于何处，我们是否可能会在未来以另一个环境问题作为代价来解决当前的环境问题呢？
As someone who reports on all forms of transportation and not just the EVs, this is a good time to get in my other big thing that I always like to talk about, which is really making our transportation system much more environmentally friendly, making sure that people are able to live in places where maybe they don't have to take cars to go everywhere.
作为一名报道所有交通形式而非仅仅是电动汽车的人，现在是我谈论另一个我总喜欢谈论的大问题的好时机，那就是确保我们的交通系统更加环保，让人们能够生活在不必到处开车的地方。
They have access to public transit, they can bike if they want to or enjoy that, they can walk places if they want to. Things in the US are very far apart more than in other countries and that means that we're much more dependent on cars than other countries.
他们可以使用公共交通工具，如果愿意的话还可以骑自行车或去散步。在美国，物品之间的距离比其他国家更遥远，这意味着我们更加依赖汽车而不是其他国家。
And bringing everything a little bit closer together is probably the most sustainable thing that we can do as a country, even more than transitioning to electric vehicles.
将一切变得更加紧密地结合起来可能是我们国家最可持续的事情，甚至比过渡到电动汽车还要重要。
Well, now, you know, as we wrap up things, the normal question would be, so what are you going to get when you decide to take the plunge? But since you don't drive, has this made you think, well, maybe it's time for me to consider getting that driver's license and checking out EVs? And if you were to take the plunge, what would you go for?
嗯，现在，你知道，当我们结束时，通常的问题应该是，当你决定大胆尝试时，你会得到什么？但是因为你不开车，这让你想，也许是时候考虑拿到驾照并看看电动汽车了？如果你决定尝试一下，你会选择什么呢？
I am definitely at that point where I need to take the plunge with my driver's license truly more than for the planet for my marriage because my husband is sick of driving me around poor guy. But in terms of buying electric, that would be something I'd be really interested in doing, the cost right now is really scary to me, especially in the use market, which is probably where I would start to look.
我现在肯定已经到了需要真正考驾照的那个点，不仅仅是为了地球，也是为了我的婚姻，因为我丈夫已经很烦我让他开车接我了，可怜的家伙。但是，如果是购买电动车，那我真的很感兴趣，只是现在的成本对我来说真的很可怕，尤其是在二手市场，那可能是我开始寻找的地方。
But there's a lot of cool options out there and even, you know, some less, how should I say, glamorous EVs from the number of years ago, you know, Nissan Leafs, things like that, there are people that are buying those used cars right now who are really, really happy with them. So I'd probably look at those, you know, maybe less popular, not they're not going to show up in the music videos, but they get you to where you need to go. And you can feel like you're doing something a little better for the planet that way.
有很多不错的选择，甚至，你知道的，一些不太，该怎么说呢，有名的电动汽车，例如几年前的日产叶子等。目前有人在购买这些二手车，他们感到非常满意。所以我可能会看看那些，可能不那么受欢迎，不会出现在音乐视频中，但它们能带你去你需要去的地方。这样做可以让你觉得你在为地球做些更好的事情。
So good practical transportation. That's what's got you hooked.
太好用的实用交通工具，这就是让你着迷的原因。
Exactly. Ariane Marshall is a staff writer for Wired. She covers the latest on EVs and their infrastructure. You can check out her reporting on wired.com. Ariane, thanks so much for joining us on business wars and we'll see you out on the road soon, I hope. Thanks for having me.
艾琳·马歇尔是《连线》（Wired）杂志的一名工作人员。她报道最新的电动车和基础设施动态。你可以在wired.com上查看她的报道。艾琳，非常感谢你加入我们的商战节目，希望很快能在路上见到你。谢谢你邀请我。
Hey, we have to stop for a quick charge. But when we return, Bloomberg journalist Dana Hull takes us inside the walls of a California Tesla factory where hundreds of workers are suing the company over racial discrimination. Stay with us.
嘿，我们得快速充电停一下。不过回来后，彭博新闻记者丹娜·赫尔会带我们走进加利福尼亚的特斯拉工厂墙内。那里有数百名工人正在起诉公司的种族歧视问题。敬请关注。
Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American scandal. We bring to lies some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters and corporate fraud.
你好，我是林赛·格雷厄姆，是“美国丑闻”Wondries播客的主持人。我们揭露美国历史上的一些重大争议：包括总统的谎言、环境灾难和公司欺诈。
In our newest series, we look at a covert US operation that toppled a democratic government in Iran. In 1951, Muhammad Mosadek was elected Iran's prime minister. Mosadek was largely focused on strengthening his country's democratic institutions, but he also sought to nationalize Iran's oil industry, letting his country's citizens profit from their own natural resources.
在我们最新的系列中，我们将探讨一项秘密的美国行动，它推翻了伊朗的民主政府。1951年，穆罕默德·穆萨德克当选伊朗总理。穆萨德克主要关注加强其国家的民主机构，但他还试图把伊朗的石油工业国有化，让他的国民从自己的自然资源中获益。
And as Mosadek carried out his sweeping reforms, US officials grew concerned that Iran would soon fall under the sway of communists. And with the blessing of America's top political leaders, the CIA launched a mission to oust Mosadek from power, the campaign involved bribes, psychological warfare and staged riots. And it all led to a showdown that promised to reshape the Middle East for decades.
当莫萨德克实施了他的全面改革时，美国官员开始担心伊朗很快会受到共产主义的影响。在美国高层领导人的祝福下，中央情报局发起了推翻莫萨德克的行动，其中包括贿赂、心理战和策划的暴乱。这一切都导致了一场将重塑中东局势数十年的决战。
Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts, and you can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondry app.
在任何你可以获取播客的地方关注美国丑闻节目，并且你可以在亚马逊音乐或Wondry应用中免广告地收听。
Hey, welcome back to Business Wars. From the outside, Tesla seems like a cutting-edge company trying to do right by the planet with a commitment to clean energy. But are they doing right by their employees?
嘿，欢迎回到《商战》。从外面看，特斯拉看起来是一家致力于清洁能源，追求先进技术，对地球负责的公司。但是，他们对员工是否也做到了对呢？
Most recently, black workers at Tesla's flagship factory in Fremont, California have reported countless acts of racism from colleagues comparing the work environment to a, quote, plantation.
最近，特斯拉在加利福尼亚州弗里蒙特的旗舰工厂的黑人工人报告了同事不计其数的种族歧视行为，他们称这个工作环境像“种植园”。
Now the state of California is suing Tesla on behalf of the impacted workers. Reporter Dana Hull covers Tesla for Bloomberg News, and she's been following the lawsuit closely. She joins us now.
现在加利福尼亚州代表受影响的工人起诉特斯拉。记者Dana Hull为彭博新闻报道特斯拉的新闻，她一直密切关注这起诉讼。她现在加入我们。
Dana, welcome to Business Wars.
Dana，欢迎来到商业战争节目。
Welcome.
欢迎。如果需要的话，我可以改写。
Before we dive in, can you give us something of an overview of Tesla's reputation when it comes to the working environment?
在我们深入探讨之前，你能给我们介绍一下特斯拉在工作环境方面的声誉吗？
Sure. Tesla has a pretty massive auto plant in Fremont, California, which is a city sort of across the bay from San Francisco. It's about halfway between Oakland and San Jose.
当然。特斯拉在加利福尼亚弗里蒙特有一家相当大的汽车工厂，该城市位于旧金山湾对面的一个城市。它介于奥克兰和圣何塞之间。
And it's an old auto plant that Tesla bought in 2010, and it employs over 10,000 people.
这是一家特斯拉在2010年收购的旧汽车工厂，聘用了超过10,000名员工。
And this is where Tesla makes the Model S, the Model X, the Model 3, and the Model Y. And it's a very diverse workforce.
这就是特斯拉生产 Model S、Model X、Model 3和Model Y的地方，还拥有一支非常多样化的员工团队。
But for years, black employees and workers at the plant have complained of racism from colleagues as well as from supervisors. And there have been several lawsuits about this. And then most recently, the state of California itself sued on behalf of those workers.
多年来，这个工厂的黑人员工和工人一直抱怨同事以及主管的种族主义。这方面已经发生过多起诉讼。最近，加州政府代表这些工人提起了诉讼。
You report that Tesla is what's called a majority minority company, black Hispanic and other underrepresented workers make up. What is it? Something like 60% of the workforce, is that right?
你报告说特斯拉是所谓的多数少数族裔公司，黑人、西班牙裔和其他代表少数的工人占据了大部分。是这样吗？大约60%的员工属于这个群体对吧？
We should get a new data from the company once they file their 2021 kind of impact report. But yeah, it is a very diverse workplace. I mean, California as a state is incredibly diverse.
一旦这家公司提交2021年的影响报告，我们应该从他们那里获取新的数据。但是，就像加利福尼亚州一样，这是一个非常多样化的工作场所。
So the factory, when you walk through there, you see all kinds of folks from every different ethnic background possible, black, Latino, Filipino, Asian American, Indian, white. I mean, it is a melting pot, but it is very stratified as well.
当你穿过那家工厂时，你会看到来自各种种族背景的人，有黑人、拉丁裔、菲律宾人、亚裔美国人、印度人和白人。我的意思是，那里有一个熔炉，但也存在很多层次。
So same more about the allegations that are brought up in the lawsuit. What's the nature of the complaint specifically?
请您再详细说说诉讼中提出的指控，具体是什么投诉呢？
What's important to note is that there are several lawsuits that have been filed on behalf of workers privately that have been working their way through state court. But then there's also a big lawsuit that the state itself filed against Tesla.
需要注意的是，有几个工人私下提起的诉讼正在州法院审理中。然而，还有一起大型诉讼是州政府对特斯拉提起的。
This is one of the words we're talking about now, the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing, which is kind of like the California equivalent of the EEOC filed a lawsuit in February, basically a alleging Tesla of years of discriminatory practices against hundreds of black workers at the plant.
现在我们正在讨论的是一个词，加州公平就业和住房部门，有点像加州版的 EEOC。该部门在二月份提起了一场诉讼，基本上指控特斯拉在工厂里有多年的歧视行为，涉及数百名黑人工人。
And it's everything from racially segregating the way that the plant is set up in terms of who works in which department, denying people promotions, HR, not really investigating complaints, supervisors being given a head up when complaints were filed, and just kind of this pattern of behavior that really hurt just a lot of workers who were trying to kind of give Tesla a go.
这些都是问题，包括在工厂的设置中按种族隔离，拒绝升职，不认真调查投诉，投诉时主管被通知和这种伤害很多想试试在特斯拉工作的工人的行为模式。
And it's just very rare for the state of California to go after an employer who was so well-known like this. The state of California has done similar lawsuits against video game companies like Riot Games, but Tesla is far and away the largest manufacturing employer that they've ever filed a lawsuit against.
“加利福尼亚州很少像这样追究这么知名的雇主。加州曾经对诸如Riot Games等视频游戏公司进行过类似的诉讼，但特斯拉是他们迄今为止提起诉讼的最大的制造业雇主。”
These are powerful words, though, coming from a lawyer who represents a lot of these workers. He says Tesla is like a plantation.
这些话非常有力，是由代表许多这些工人的律师说出来的。他说特斯拉就像一座种植园。
Well, those are the words of the workers themselves who were often given the hardest jobs at the factory, the most strenuous jobs. They were sometimes asked to clean the factory. They reported seeing racist graffiti on the bathroom stalls in the lunchroom.
那就是工人们自己的话了，他们经常被安排在工厂里干最辛苦的工作，最紧张的工作。有时候他们被要求打扫工厂。他们报告说在休息室的卫生间隔间上看到了种族主义涂鸦。
And then when they would complain to their supervisors about these offensive words, nothing ever happened. And this comes not just from one complaint. I mean, this is from several people that have either filed complaints or ultimately filed lawsuits.
然后当他们向他们的上级抱怨这些冒犯性的话语时，从来没有发生任何事情。这不仅仅是一个抱怨的问题。我的意思是，这来自于几个人，他们要么已经提出了抱怨，要么最终提起了诉讼。
And so it's been going on for quite some time. And some of the lawsuits that have gone forward privately have been successful. The fact that the state felt that it was necessary to also sue is just a sign of how ubiquitous it was.
所以这种情况已经持续了相当长一段时间了。此前私下提出的一些诉讼案已经取得了成功。州政府觉得有必要也提起诉讼，这只是说明这种情况是非常普遍的。
Well, I would imagine these complaints were over time taken to HR. Did they respond to the complaints at all? What is your reporting indicate?
嗯，我想这些抱怨随着时间的推移会被提到人力资源部门。他们有没有对这些抱怨做出回应呢？你的报告显示了什么？
Well, this is part of the reason why the state ultimately stepped in is because the feeling was that HR was not really doing anything on behalf of the workers. And so many of the complaints are about the fact that HR didn't investigate or didn't do a thorough investigation or fired the person who was complaining while promoting or reassigning the person who was committing the harassment or the abuse.
嗯，州政府最终介入的原因之一是因为人力资源部门在代表工人方面似乎没有做任何事情。因此，许多投诉都涉及到人力资源部门没有进行调查，或者调查不够彻底，或者开除了投诉的人却晋升或调动了实施骚扰或虐待的人。
Well, take us back. When did this seem to start to emerge as an issue at Tesla? Was there sort of a starting point?
好的，请带我们回去。这个问题在特斯拉似乎是什么时候开始出现的？有没有一个起点？
Many of the complaints kind of go back to the earlier days of the company when the company was beginning, just beginning to scale. They came out with the Model S in 2012 and then they built the Model X and then they started to work on the Model 3.
很多投诉其实是源自公司早期的阶段，也就是公司初创期，开始扩大规模的时候。他们在2012年推出了Model S，然后又开发了Model X，接着开始着手研发Model 3。
And this is a period of rapid expansion and growth for the company when they were hiring workers, often from temporary staffing agencies and the HR operation didn't scale sort of in tandem with the hiring. So you had tons of people being hired as production associates at the factory and HR operation that was still pretty lean.
这是公司快速扩张和增长的阶段，他们从临时性人力资源机构雇佣了很多工人，而人力资源运营没有跟上招聘步伐。因此，工厂里有很多人被招聘为生产助理，但人力资源运营部门仍然比较精简。
And then I would say that 2015 on is sort of the bulk of what we're seeing. But I mean, there have been complaints filed just as recently as 2022 for sure.
然后我想说，2015年以后算是我们所看到的主要部分。但是，我的意思是，最近确实有人提出了投诉，至少到2022年为止。
What about Tesla's public response to all of this? Tesla has said different things in different ways. They have made it clear that the Tesla of today is not the Tesla of 2015. They have published some blog posts that are still on their website where they've kind of taken issue with the lawsuits. They have pledged to do better.
特斯拉对这一切的公共回应怎么样呢？特斯拉以不同的方式说出了不同的话。他们明确表示，今天的特斯拉与2015年的特斯拉不同。他们在网站上发布了一些仍然存在的博客文章，其中他们对这些诉讼提出了一些质疑。他们承诺会做得更好。
I think Tesla very much sees itself as a meritocracy. And one of the reasons why people do like working at the company is that if you show potential and promise you can get promoted fairly quickly and here in the Bay Area, it has long been seen as kind of a desirable place to work.
我认为特斯拉非常看重自身的人才制度。人们喜欢在这家公司工作的原因之一是，如果你展现出潜力和承诺，你可以很快地得到提升。在湾区，特斯拉一直被视为一个理想的工作场所。
But for scores of black workers, those opportunities were not equally open to them. And one point that I think is really important to make and that has become an issue in a lot of these lawsuits is that there's sort of a two-tiered wage system at Tesla.
但对于许多黑人工人来说，这些机会并不对他们同样开放。我认为非常重要的一点是，在许多这些诉讼中，一个问题已经成为了一个问题，那就是特斯拉有一种双层工资制度。
Lots of people are direct employees where they, you know, they work for Tesla. They have a Tesla badge. But there are hundreds of people that work at the factory who are hired by staffing agencies to help with production during certain periods. And they are temporary employees. They are hired by a staffing agency. They're assigned to Tesla, but they're not considered direct employees.
许多人是特斯拉的直接雇员，他们在这里工作。他们有着特斯拉徽章。但在工厂里还有数百人是由人力资源机构雇佣，在特定时期帮助生产的临时员工。他们是临时工。他们是由人力资源机构雇佣的。他们被分配到特斯拉，但不被视为直接雇员。
And Tesla has really kind of made that distinction in fighting a lot of these lawsuits saying, well, you know, that person wasn't really one of our employees. They were from a staffing agency. And to be fair to Tesla, some of the folks who have complained, you know, they worked at Tesla for short periods of time, six months, nine months, a year. But the churn and the sort of two-tiered wage system is definitely a bit a big part of this as well.
特斯拉在应对很多这些官司时，真的做出了这种区分，说，嗯，你知道的，那个人其实不是我们的员工，他们来自一家临时工机构。公平地说，有些抱怨的人在特斯拉工作了很短的时间，六个月、九个月、一年。但是，人员流动和双层工资制度确实也是这个问题的一个很大的部分。
Something else that strikes me as unique about Tesla is that unlike many companies, the person at the very top is such a public figure that that individual almost personifies the company, if you know what I'm saying. It's almost like Steve Jobs was with Apple. And there are very few companies that have that kind of polarizing figure at the very top that everyone knows of everyone knows Elon Musk.
特斯拉让我印象深刻的另一个独特之处是，与许多公司不同的是，公司最高层的人物是一个如此公众化的人物，以至于他几乎成为了公司的化身，如果你明白我的意思的话。这几乎就像史蒂夫·乔布斯在苹果公司的地位一样。很少有公司有这种顶层人物，他们如此具有极端影响力，每个人都知道埃隆·马斯克。
Absolutely. So, you're going to address this publicly, your knowledge? He's not addressed it publicly recently. This was back in 2017.
那你会公开谈论你的知识吗？他最近没有公开谈论这个问题，这是在2017年发生的事情。
One of the first kind of lawsuits that was filed alleging the factory of racism included a response from Musk that's called doing the right thing. And it's about, you know, behavior within the factory. It was a striking tone to take, which is basically like, you know, be cool with each other.
其中一种最早提出的诉讼指称工厂存在种族歧视，马斯克做出回应称这是正确的做法，与工厂内的行为有关。这种态度非常引人注目，基本上是：彼此和睦相处。
But if someone is a jerk to you, have a thick skin. And, you know, I think in today's day and age, particularly after we've come through the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter, having a CEO talk about having a thick skin is just not really the way that we're seeing DEI initiatives roll out. So that, that email is probably the most famous thing that he said about allegations of racism at his workplace.
如果有人对你不好，你要有一颗坚强的心。我认为在当今这个时代，特别是在我们经历了“我也是”运动和“黑命贵”运动之后，让一位CEO谈论要有坚强的心还不太符合我们现在推行的多元化、平等和包容的举措。所以，那封电子邮件可能是他就他的工作场所的种族歧视指控所说的最著名的话。
Well, the larger lawsuit brought by the state is still unfolding. But so far, what's been your biggest takeaway from the legal action here?
嗯，州政府提起的更大诉讼仍在进行中。但迄今为止，您从这里的法律行动中最大的收获是什么？
California is a very diverse place. And it has a reputation for being incredibly progressive socially. And it is in many ways. But the factory feels like a throwback to a lot of people. I interviewed a man named Duwitt Lambert who grew up in Mobile, Alabama, moved to California, worked as an electrician, got a job at the Tesla factory.
加利福尼亚是一个非常多元化的地方。它在社会方面有着极其进步的声誉。在很多方面，它确实是这样的。但工厂给许多人的感觉却像是回到了过去。我采访了一个名叫Duwitt Lambert的男子，他在阿拉巴马州莫比尔市长大，后来搬到了加利福尼亚，在那里当了电工，然后在特斯拉工厂找到了工作。
And, you know, he was in tears speaking to me on the phone. I mean, he said that his entire life growing up in Alabama, no one had ever called him in the N word. And the first time he heard it was at Tesla's factory in Fremont.
你知道吗，他在电话里哭着跟我说话。我是说，他说他在阿拉巴马州长大的整个人生中，没有人曾经用"N"字称呼他。而他第一次听到这个词是在特斯拉在弗里蒙特的工厂里。
And he was shocked by how much that word was thrown around the factory, often by younger colleagues who, you know, maybe didn't realize how damaging that word is. And he was just sort of floored. And that was really striking to me.
他非常惊讶于工厂里那个词被频繁使用的程度，而且通常是由年轻同事使用。也许他们不知道那个词有多么有害。他感到非常震惊。这对我来说真的很印象深刻。
Maybe that's a generational thing. Maybe there's a whole young generation that has not been taught about the damage of that word. So that was really illuminating to me to have someone from Alabama say that they had never been called that word until they moved to California and then experience that kind of hate at the Tesla factory.
也许这是一个代际差异的问题。也许有一整个年轻的一代人没有被教育过这个词有多伤人。所以有人来自阿拉巴马说他们直到搬到加利福尼亚才第一次被称为那个词，然后在特斯拉工厂经历了那种仇视，这对我来说真是启示性的。
We're talking with Dana Hull. She's a reporter with Bloomberg. And we are going to take another short break right now. We'll have more on Tesla's inner workings when we come back. Stay with us.
我们正在和Dana Hull交谈。她是彭博社的一名记者。现在我们要再休息一会儿。待我们回来时，我们将会继续谈论特斯拉的内部工作。请继续关注我们。
And we're back. You're listening to business wars. I'm David Brown and our guest is Dana Hull. She's a reporter at Bloomberg News covering Tesla.. And recently she's been following the discrimination lawsuits facing the company in California of what's been going down at the Fremont facility.
我们回来了。你正在收听商业之争。我是戴维·布朗，我们的嘉宾是丹娜·哈尔。她是彭博新闻的记者，负责报道特斯拉。最近，她一直在关注加利福尼亚州诉讼案件中特斯拉面临的歧视问题和弗里蒙特工厂内发生的情况。
Dana, these are pretty serious allegations, obviously. And it all does raise a question about whether or not Tesla will have to pay a price to the marketplace for what's actually happening in the factories. So far they have not had to.
Dana，显然这些指控相当严重。这确实引发了一个问题，即特斯拉是否需要为工厂里实际发生的事情向市场付出代价。到目前为止，他们还没有必要这样做。
I mean, we have seen the company's valuation soar as it became clear that this kind of pivot and transition to electric vehicles was real. Every other automaker is now investing in the electric vehicle space. But Tesla's valuation as a company has only risen as these lawsuits have come to light.
我的意思是，随着这种转型和转向电动汽车变得真实，我们看到公司的估值飙升。现在，每个汽车制造商都正在投资于电动汽车领域。但是，当这些诉讼被曝光时，特斯拉作为公司的估值只有上升。
So in terms of a dent to reputation or a big concern to investors, we're not seeing much of a hit yet at all. To me, the big question is all of these investors, particularly the ESG investors who see Tesla as the shining light in their portfolio, where do they draw the line in terms of corporate governance and diversity? And why are they giving Tesla a pass on this?
所以从声誉损失或投资者的重大关切来看，我们目前还没有看到太大的打击。对我来说，最大的问题是所有这些投资者，特别是把特斯拉视为其投资组合中的光明之星的ESG投资者，在企业治理和多样性方面他们会在何处划定界限？而为什么他们对特斯拉放过？
How can you have Tesla in your portfolio and not be concerned about this? And so there are investors that are really pushing Tesla on this, but we have not seen a big groundswell just yet. What power would they have should they choose to exercise it if they wanted to push change at Tesla?
你怎么会在你的投资组合中拥有特斯拉，而不担心这个问题呢？因此，有些投资者确实在这方面推动特斯拉，但我们还没有看到大规模的声势。如果他们想要推动特斯拉的变革，他们将拥有什么样的力量？
There's been an effort, for example, to get Tesla to be more transparent about its diversity data and release its EEO1 data. There's been an effort to get Tesla to be more transparent about the way that it uses arbitration to solve employee disputes. And for example, the arbitration effort has failed two years in a row, but it got more support last year than it did the first time, and I imagine that the investors will bring that effort forward yet again.
有一些努力，例如让特斯拉更加透明地发布其多元化数据和EEO1数据。有一些努力让特斯拉更加透明地解决员工纠纷的仲裁方式。例如，这一仲裁努力连续两年失败了，但是去年得到了比第一次更多的支持，我想投资者们将会再次提出这一努力。
So you can try to push the company in the right direction, but it typically requires really big shareholders to all get together and kind of be on the same page and to demand the change.
你可以试着推动公司朝着正确的方向发展，但通常需要许多大股东团结一致、达成共识并一起要求改变才能实现。
You know, the elephant in the room here is what seems like perhaps a dichotomy, at least among those who think about the Tesla brand, one hand, you have this mission driven company that's touting clean energy. A lot of people extremely enthusiastic about the product and real feeling that it's doing a lot to get us on track to save the planet. But then you have the discrimination, the hostile work environment allegations, and a CEO who from the sound of it perhaps doesn't strike the right note in trying to respond to these complaints.
听着，这里的大象问题可能是一个二元的问题，至少在那些思考特斯拉品牌的人中间。一方面，有这个充满使命感的公司在大力推广清洁能源，许多人对产品充满热情，真正感受到它在征程上对拯救地球做出了很大的贡献。但是，你也有歧视、敌对的工作环境指控，以及一个从声音上听起来可能没有正确回应这些抱怨的CEO。
Can you unpack a little bit of that for us? Yeah, well, I think first it's important to just note that, you know, we have a long way to go in this country when it comes to racism. And you know, racism exists in every sector of our society. And it is not like Tesla is unique in manufacturing in terms of having issues on the factory floor.
你能解释一下吗？嗯，我认为首先很重要的是要注意到我们在种族歧视方面还有很长的路要走。而且，你知道，种族歧视存在于我们社会的每个领域。而且，特斯拉在工厂内存在问题并不是制造业中独一无二的。
These are hard demanding physical jobs where people are often working long shifts. So I don't want to make it sound like there's not racism out of their manufacturing plants or certainly not at other auto plants.
这些工作需要人们长时间工作，非常辛苦。因此，我不想让大家觉得他们的生产工厂外没有种族主义，当然其他汽车工厂也不例外。
But Tesla has been in the spotlight because, you know, this is a relatively young company that started from scratch that grew up in this age of increased awareness of, you know, bias and privilege. And in California where you have a population that is very progressive generally and a state government that is very progressive.
但特斯拉备受瞩目，因为你知道，这是一家相对年轻的公司，从零开始成长，成长在这个越来越关注偏见和特权的时代。在加州，人口总体非常进步，政府也非常进步。
I mean, we, you know, California requires, you know, all public company boards to have two women on the board. So I think what's interesting is that, yes, on the one hand, Tesla is the company most associated with, you know, that moving us towards a clean economy future. But it's got a lot of workers and there is a long trail of, you know, pretty egregious behavior at that plant that is now coming to light.
我是说，你知道，加利福尼亚要求所有公开公司董事会上有两名女性。所以我认为有趣的是，一方面，特斯拉是与推动我们走向清洁经济未来相关联的公司。但是它有很多工人，而那个工厂有着漫长的历史，你知道的，现在暴露出来的一系列令人不快的行为。
And I don't think that the state of California would have sued one of their key employers if they were not deeply worried about this. You know, Tesla has now moved its headquarters to Texas. And so Tesla is no longer a California headquartered company, but they still have well over 30,000 employees in the state.
我认为，如果加利福尼亚州不深刻担忧这件事，他们不会起诉自己的关键雇主。你知道，特斯拉现在已经将总部迁至德克萨斯州。因此，特斯拉不再是一家总部位于加利福尼亚的公司，但在该州仍有超过30,000名员工。
And I just think that for a government agency like the DFVH to sue Tesla, it's clear that they just have a wealth of data and they got so many complaints that they felt like they had to take action.
我觉得，像 DFVH 这样的政府机构起诉特斯拉，显然他们拥有大量数据并收到了很多投诉，以至于他们感到必须采取行动。
When it comes to Tesla's reputation, is there something of a paradox here or is that reading too much into it?
说到特斯拉的声誉，这里有点矛盾吗，还是读多了？
I guess the paradox is that on the one hand, everyone loves Tesla's products and sees the company is leading the charge to a clean energy future and giving us off of fossil fuels. On the other hand, they do not have that many female executives. They certainly do not have very many black executives. The last most high ranking black executive was Valerie Workman, who was the head of HR. She quit earlier this year for another job.
我想矛盾在于一方面，所有人都喜欢特斯拉的产品，认为该公司正在引领迈向清洁能源未来，帮助我们摆脱化石燃料。另一方面，他们没有太多女性高管。他们肯定没有太多黑人高管。最近最高级别的黑人高管是Valerie Workman，她负责人力资源。她今年早些时候辞职了去了另一份工作。
So I think people who sort of align themselves with Tesla because they love the brand need to really sort of ask themselves, like, are you just not concerned about these allegations of racism? And it's not that the allegations have not been covered. I mean, there have been several high-profile lawsuits where the plaintiffs have actually won both in court and in arbitration. So I just don't know whether people are turning a blind eye or whether they're love of the product, super seeds, they're concerned about these issues or whether it's lip service.
我认为，那些因为热爱特斯拉品牌而与其保持一致的人需要认真考虑，是否不关心这些种族主义指控。这些指控并非没有受到关注，因为已经有几起备受瞩目的诉讼案件，原告不仅在法庭上获胜，还在仲裁中获得胜利。所以我不知道人们是故意选择视而不见，还是他们对产品的热爱超过了对这些问题的关注，或者只是口头上表示关注。
But this is something that the company has had to reckon with for quite some time and it's not ending. I mean, these lawsuits are going to continue to unfold and go through the court system.
但这是公司必须长期面对的问题，而且没有结束的迹象。我是说，这些诉讼案件将继续展开并通过法院系统进行审理。
Well, taken together, what do you think the future looks like for Tesla, given all of these factors that are in play? I think that Tesla will continue to grow as a company and scale its operations. I think that the state lawsuit will wind its way through the court system and will ultimately result in some kind of financial settlement that hopefully will go to many of the former workers at Tesla who experience this environment of near-constant racial slurs and the race is writing in graffiti.
那么，综合考虑所有这些因素，你认为特斯拉的未来会怎么样？我认为特斯拉将继续成长并扩大其业务规模。州政府的诉讼将经过司法程序，最终可能会导致某种财务和解，希望可以得到许多之前在特斯拉遭受几乎不断的种族歧视和种族涂鸦的前员工的支持。
But the employment rate being low, I think that workers have options, but Tesla does remain one of the biggest manufacturers in the Bay Area and it's still an exciting place to work for a lot of people. So I think that you're still going to see Tesla being considered a good place to work by the average person. But I think what just remains to be seen is whether the shareholders that do care about racism can get any of these action items through.
因为就业率很低，我认为工人有选择，但特斯拉仍然是湾区最大的制造商之一，对很多人来说仍然是一个令人兴奋的工作场所。因此，我认为普通人仍然会认为特斯拉是一个好的工作地方。但我认为仍需观察的是，在股东中关心种族主义的人是否能通过这些行动计划中的任何一项。
And the big one is still the use of arbitration. How Tesla uses arbitration when it comes to employees who have complaints.
最大的问题是特斯拉在员工投诉时使用仲裁制度。他们如何使用仲裁制度。
Dana Hull is a journalist for Bloomberg News covering Tesla Tech and Auto. You can follow her on Twitter at Dana Hull and catch her reporting on Bloomberg.com.
Dana Hull 是彭博新闻的一名记者，专注于报道特斯拉科技和汽车领域。你可以在 Twitter 上关注她的账号 Dana Hull，或在 Bloomberg.com 上阅读她的报道。
Dana, thanks so much for taking time to talk with us on Business Wars.
Dana，非常感谢你抽出时间在Business Wars节目中与我们交谈。
My pleasure.
很高兴能做到这件事情。
Hey, prime members, you can binge every episode of Business Wars ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus, an Apple Podcast. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com-survey.
嘿，亚马逊会员，您可以在 Amazon Music 上畅听《商业之战》的每一集，无需冗长广告。今天就下载 Amazon Music 应用程序吧。或者，您还可以在苹果播客 Wondery Plus 中享受无广告服务。在您离开之前，请访问 Wondery.com-survey 完成一份短小的调查，告诉我们有关您的信息。
On our next episode, we're going to be joined by Wall Street Journal reporter Heather Hatton and comedy writer, Halle Keifer, to talk about the food industry shift to plant-based foods. From functional soda that's good for your gut, to jerky made from plants, consumers are hungry for alternatives that are better for the planet. Companies are eager to cash in, too.
在我们的下一集中，我们将邀请《华尔街日报》记者希瑟·哈顿和喜剧作家哈利·凯弗加入我们，讨论食品行业向植物性食品的转变。从对肠道有益的功能性苏打水到由植物制成的肉干，消费者更喜欢对环境更友好的替代品。而公司也急于抓住机会，赚取利润。
From Wondery, this is episode 5 of Tesla versus Detroit for Business Wars. I'm David Brown. Kelly Kyle and Peter Arcoony produce this episode. Karen Lo is our senior producer and editor, edited and produced by Emily Frost. We're designed by Kyle Randall. Additional audio assistance by Sir Joanne Requez. Dave Schilling is our producer. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman and Marshall Lui, created by Ernan Lopez for Wondery.
嗨，大家好，这是商战系列节目《特斯拉对战底特律》的第五集，由旺德里制作。我是David Brown。Kelly Kyle和Peter Arcoony制作本集。Karen Lo是我们的高级制作人和编辑，本集由Emily Frost编辑和制作，我们的设计由Kyle Randall完成。额外的音频协助由Joanne Requez负责。Dave Schilling是我们的制片人。我们的执行制片人是Jenny Lauer Beckman和Marshall Lui，由Ernan Lopez为旺德里创作。