Humans and AI Bots Blur in the World's Call Center Capital

Are you looking for a new podcast about stuff related to money? Well today's your lucky day. I'm Matt Levine. And I'm Katie Greifold. And we're the hosts of Money Stuff, the podcast. Every Friday we dive into the top stories about Wall Street, finance and other stuff. We have fun, we get weird, and we want you to join us. You can listen to Money Stuff, the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts, radio, news.

你是否在寻找一个关于金钱话题的新播客？那么今天就是你的幸运日。我是马特·莱文，我是凯蒂·格雷福尔德，我们是《金钱事务》播客的主持人。每周五，我们都会深入探讨华尔街、金融和其他相关话题的头条新闻。我们以轻松有趣的方式讨论，希望你能加入我们。你可以在Apple Podcasts、Spotify或其他播客平台上收听《金钱事务》。由彭博音频工作室制作。播客、广播、新闻。

I recently had a conversation that really changed the way I think about AI, its power, and how it might be used in our day-to-day interactions. It started with a phone call to a company called Sanis. Hello, thank you for calling Sanis Airline. My name is Nizhyeon. How can I assist you today? Hi, I'm Rebecca. I'm trying to cancel my flights to Singapore, but I'm having problems. Okay, I'm sorry to hear that, Rebecca. And for us to proceed, can I have your ticket number, please?

最近，我进行了一次谈话，这次谈话真的改变了我对人工智能、它的力量以及它可能在我们日常互动中应用的看法。这次谈话是从打电话给一家名叫Sanis的公司开始的。 “您好，感谢您致电Sanis航空公司。我是Nizhyeon。请问有什么可以帮您的吗？” “你好，我是Rebecca。我想取消去新加坡的航班，但遇到了一些问题。” “好的，很抱歉听到您的问题，Rebecca。为了帮助您处理，能否请您提供机票号码？”

It sounds like a typical conversation you might have with a customer rep. But here's the thing. The sound of Lusil, the person I'm speaking with, is actually being modified quite dramatically with AI. Without the AI, here's what our conversation would actually sound like. Hi, Rebecca. This is Lusil, and I'm from the Philippines, and this is my normal voice and accent. Wow, Lusil, that is a wild transformation, both in accent and in that clarity of that noise. Yeah, right. Wait, can you turn on the app again? Okay, not a problem. So there you go. The Sanis app is stored on now. So hi, Rebecca. Nice meeting you. Wow, that's just wild. The AI company Lusil works for Sanas causes technology accent translation. It says it eliminates background noise and enhances the clarity of voice and speech, while making sure it still sounds natural. And Lusil, who runs demos for Sanas, says the technology helps call reps. When they use it, fewer customers are asked to be transferred to a different agent. That used to happen all the time during the 12 years she worked as a customer service rep. For example, if we answer the call, they actually look for a US representative right away instead of trying to talk to us. There's already a doubt that if we are equipped or capable of answering their questions or resolving their concern and queries.

这听起来像是你可能会与客户代表进行的典型对话。但是，关键在于，我正在与之交谈的Lusil的声音经过了人工智能的显著修改。如果没有这个AI，我们的对话听起来是这样的：嗨，Rebecca，我是Lusil，我来自菲律宾，这是我的正常声音和口音。哇，Lusil，这个变化真是太惊人了，不仅有口音，还有声音的清晰度。是啊，确实如此。等一下，你可以再打开那个应用吗？好的，没问题。好了，现在Sanis应用已经启动。嗨，Rebecca，很高兴见到你。哇，真是太神奇了。 Lusil工作的AI公司Sanas拥有一种称为技术口音翻译的技术。它声称可以消除背景噪音并增强语音的清晰度，同时确保听起来仍然自然。负责为Sanas进行演示的Lusil表示，这项技术有助于客服代表。当他们使用它时，较少的客户会要求转接到其他代理。在她担任客服代表的12年里，这种情况经常发生。例如，如果我们接听电话，对方通常会立即要求找一位美国代表，而不是尝试与我们交谈。他们对我们是否有能力回答问题或解决他们的疑问和问题感到怀疑。

Sanas says its AI tools quote, eliminate communication barriers and allow agents to resolve issues faster, which means shorter wait times for customers. And Sanas is just one of the many AI companies that are blurring the line between where the tech starts and the human ends. And while these tools might make things easier on customer reps, they are a potential danger to the jobs of those working in the customer service industry or what's known as the BPO sector, business process outsourcing. We will see shrinking in the core of BPO world as new AI tools get launched every month. They're bringing in a lot more efficiency. Bloomberg's Saretha Rai covers AI in Asia from India. And she says if you want to see this threat up close, the Philippines where Luzil is is a good place to look. That's because it's considered the world's capital for BPOs, particularly voice BPOs. The industry employs about 1.7 million people and accounts for about 8% of Philippines GDP. And Saretha says what's happening with the industry over in the Philippines is being closely watched by the rest of the world. Entire countries, economists, experts are watching Philippines to see how it will play out in this country of about 100 million people. And that could well show a signal as to how these technologies will move to other countries and other industries and disrupt or enhance workers' lives.

Sanas表示，其人工智能工具可以消除沟通障碍，让客服人员更快速地解决问题，从而缩短客户的等待时间。而Sanas只是众多模糊了科技与人类界限的AI公司之一。虽然这些工具可能让客服代表的工作变得更轻松，但它们也对从事客户服务行业或所谓业务流程外包（BPO）行业的员工构成潜在威胁。随着每个月都有新的AI工具问世，BPO行业的核心正在萎缩，它们带来了更高的效率。据Bloomberg的记者Saretha Rai报道，她在印度报道亚洲的人工智能技术。她表示，如果想近距离观察这一威胁，菲律宾是一个值得关注的地方，因为它被认为是全球业务流程外包，特别是语音BPO的中心。该行业雇用了大约170万人，占菲律宾GDP的约8%。Saretha指出，菲律宾行业的发展情况正在被全球密切关注。整个国家、经济学家、专家都在观察菲律宾的动向，以了解在这个约一亿人口的国家，这些技术将如何发展传播到其他国家和行业，进而影响或提升工人的生活。

Welcome to the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Rebecca Chung-Welkins. Every week we take you inside some of the world's biggest and most powerful economies and the market's tycoons and businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show, the Philippines is at the forefront of AI's job displacement. And what happens there will say a lot about what's ahead for white-collar workers around the world. A few decades ago, major global corporations began outsourcing a lot of their back-end work, think HR, accounting, auditing and customer service, to countries with lower labor costs.

欢迎来到彭博新闻的“Big Take Asia”节目。我是Rebecca Chung-Welkins。每周，我们都会带您深入了解全球一些最大、最强的经济体，以及推动这个不断变化地区的市场大亨和企业。今天的节目主题是，菲律宾正处于人工智能造成工作岗位流失的最前沿，而那里的情况将对全球白领未来的发展产生重要影响。几十年前，大型跨国公司开始将大量后端工作，例如人力资源、会计、审计和客户服务，外包到劳动力成本较低的国家。

And Bloomberg's Saretha Rice says one of the top places these tasks were outsourced to was the Philippines. And part of the reason for that, she says, is because of the way people there speak. So the Philippines is really one of those countries which is culturally very aligned with the United States. And people speak in an accent that is much closer to the American accent, much more than pretty much the most of Asia. So that is the reason why a lot the BPO work has increasingly moved towards Philippines and made it really the call center capsule of the world. Saretha tells me the Philippines started growing its back office industry in the 2000s.

彭博社的Saretha Rice提到，任务外包的主要地点之一是菲律宾。她表示，部分原因在于菲律宾人的语言表达方式。菲律宾是文化上与美国非常接近的国家之一，人们说话的口音比亚洲大多数地区更接近美国口音。这就是为什么很多业务流程外包（BPO）工作越来越多地转移到菲律宾，并使其成为全球呼叫中心的中心。Saretha还告诉我，菲律宾的后台行业是在2000年代开始发展的。

And today, call centers are the country's biggest source of private sector jobs. The industry is forecast to hit $38 billion in revenue this year. And this industry boom has created the kind of jobs that have helped transform people's lives. These are well-being jobs. These are jobs where you can actually be socially, upwardly mobile. You can actually get paid decently and make a change in your lifestyle by your home, by a car, set up a small business on the side, set up your family.

如今，呼叫中心已经成为该国私营部门就业的最大来源。预计今年该行业的收入将达到380亿美元。这次行业繁荣创造了能够改变人们生活的工作。这些都是能够提升生活质量的工作。在这些岗位上，员工不仅能获得体面的薪酬，还能够实现社会和经济地位的上升。他们有机会通过这份工作改善自己的生活方式，比如购买住房、购买汽车、开设小型企业，或是更好地照顾家庭。

But Saretha says in the last eight months also, there have been big changes in these jobs that are raising questions about whether or not they will continue to be a stable source of income and employment for millions of Filipinos. The largest BPOs in the Philippines have rolled out a variety of AI tools pretty extensively. These AI tools do all kinds of things such as assisting agents while they're on life calls, training the agents, sometimes even making outbound calls to sell something. One of the call centers in the middle of adapting to this AI transition is 24-7 AI.

Saretha表示，在过去的八个月中，这些工作的变化很大，这引发了人们对这些工作是否会继续为数百万菲律宾人提供稳定收入和就业机会的质疑。菲律宾最大的一些业务流程外包公司已经广泛使用各种人工智能工具。这些AI工具可以在不同方面帮助，比如在接听电话时辅助客服人员、培训客服人员，有时甚至自己拨打外部电话进行销售。在适应这一AI转型的呼叫中心中，有一家名为24-7 AI的公司。

Saretha was given rare access to their call center in Manila, where they were using a chat GPT-like tool to train customer service agents. In the test run that Saretha saw, the AI tool generated different scenarios and took on a range of personas to help the human agent role play with different types of callers they might get. For example, pleasant, irate, tough, hard bargain or treat the sentiment can be tensed, distressed, irritated or calm. So for example, somebody can choose a scenario which is a Gen Z male irate, churned customer or a female millennial who is calm but has a real problem. What does an irate Gen Z AI customer sound like? Very difficult for an agent to deal with.

Saretha 获得了一个难得的机会，可以参观他们位于马尼拉的呼叫中心。在那里，他们使用一个类似于 Chat GPT 的工具来培训客服人员。在 Saretha 看到的测试中，这个 AI 工具生成了不同的场景，并扮演各种角色，帮助人类客服人员演练应对不同类型的来电者。例如，来电者可能表现得友好、不满、强硬、咄咄逼人，或者语气紧张、沮丧、恼怒或平静。比如，可以选择一个场景：愤怒的 Z 世代男性客户或冷静但有实际问题的千禧一代女性客户。那么，愤怒的 Z 世代 AI 客户听起来是什么样的呢？对客服人员来说，这是个很难处理的情况。

I can assure you, I overheard some of those calls and it was not easy but it was tremendous. How calmly these agents were dealing with really annoyed and tough customers at the other end. The idea, Saretha says, is to prepare the agents to deal with as many different scenarios and customer personalities as possible. It's also to help train them to give the most appropriate response. And Saretha says, the company told her that the kind of work the AI is doing to train human agents would take much longer if it were being done by an actual human trainer.

我可以向你保证，我偷听到了一些电话，这并不容易，但效果非常好。这些客服人员是如此冷静地应对电话那头非常恼火和难缠的客户。Saretha 说，目的是让客服人员准备好应对尽可能多的不同场景和客户个性。还要帮助他们学习如何给出最合适的回应。Saretha提到，公司告诉她，如果由人工教练来完成这些训练，所需的时间会比由人工智能进行训练要长得多。

You cannot have the trainers go from pleasant to irate to a tough bargain or to a distressed customer all within seconds. Whereas the AI can easily do that, which is why what used to take three times the number of days to train an agent has now come down to about a month. But with productivity gains and workflow improvements come trade offs. Saretha spoke to a few people whose jobs came under threat from the AI revolution in the BPO industry. One of them is 47 year old Christopher Batista. He's worked in the BPO industry for nearly two decades.

你不能让培训师在几秒钟内从友善变得愤怒，再到开出困难的条件或应对焦虑的客户。然而，人工智能可以轻松做到这一点，这也是为什么培训一个代理过去需要耗费三倍的时间，现在只需要大约一个月的原因。但随着生产率的提高和工作流程的改善，也带来了权衡。Saretha 和几位因人工智能革命而面临工作威胁的人进行了交谈。其中一位是47岁的克里斯托弗·巴蒂斯塔。他在BPO行业工作了将近二十年。

Christopher told Saretha that for months he'd watched as AI took on more responsibility where he worked. The AI took care of customers questions such as general inquiries about products, what the problem was and more before routing calls to human agents. And then last November he and others at the BPO company serving a multinational tech giant were put on floating status. Floating status means no work, no pay, but still on the roads. So you are not jobless, but you are not getting paid.

克里斯托弗告诉萨瑞莎，几个月来，他一直看到在他工作的地方，人工智能承担了越来越多的责任。人工智能负责处理客户的一些问题，比如产品的一般询问、问题的性质等等，然后再将电话转接给人工代理。去年11月，他和在为一家跨国科技巨头服务的BPO公司工作的其他人被安排在了“浮动状态”。“浮动状态”意味着没有工作，没有工资，但仍在公司名单上。也就是说，你不是失业，但也没有工资收入。

So that went on for about four or five months before Christopher quit the company and then has found a job in an entirely different company. Just how many jobs in the BPO industry are going to come under threat because of this transition? And what will that mean for the Philippine economy, which is heavily dependent on this sector? That's coming up after the break.

这持续了大约四五个月，然后克里斯托弗辞去了公司的工作，找到了另一家完全不同的公司。那么，这次转型会对BPO行业的多少工作构成威胁呢？这对高度依赖这个行业的菲律宾经济又意味着什么呢？广告之后，我们将深入探讨。

Behind the bright lights and adrenaline of pro sport is an equally exciting world of negotiations and deal making. That's what we cover each week on our podcast, The Deal. I'm Alex Rodriguez, former baseball player turned business executive. And I'm Jason Kelly, chief correspondent for Bloomberg Originals. Over the next couple months we'll hear from all stars like Billy James King. What should I learn? What should I do? I said learn the business. Jay Williams, you're an asset, but how do you become the principal? Paul Raibel, we're going to be the League of Digital and that's why you're going to invest. Adina Friedman, I definitely am competitive. David Rubenstein, people don't come up to me on the street and say, let's talk about this private equity deal you did recently. No, don't do that. Thanks. Let's talk about the team. And so many more. Listen to The Deal on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. You can also tune in to the video companion on Bloomberg Originals and on Bloomberg TV.

在职业体育的耀眼光芒和肾上腺素背后，隐藏着同样激动人心的谈判和交易世界。这就是我们每周在播客《The Deal》中所讨论的内容。我是亚历克斯·罗德里格斯，从前的棒球运动员，现在是商业执行官。我是杰森·凯利，彭博原创节目的首席记者。在接下来的几个月里，我们将听到一些明星人物的声音，如比利·詹姆斯·金。我应该学什么？我应该做什么？我就说，了解业务。杰伊·威廉姆斯，你是一个资产，但如何成为主角？保罗·雷贝尔，我们将成为数字联盟，这就是你要投资的原因。阿迪娜·弗里德曼，我绝对是有竞争力的。大卫·鲁宾斯坦，人们不会在大街上走过来对我说，最近做的那个私募股权交易聊聊吧。不会，他们不这样做。他们会说，咱们聊聊这个团队吧。还有更多嘉宾。你可以在Apple Podcast、Spotify或任何你喜欢的播客平台上收听《The Deal》。也可以在彭博原创节目和彭博电视上收看视频版。

Over the past year, most of the major players in the Philippines, vast BPO industry, have introduced some form of AI co-pilot. Having algorithms run alongside human operators to make their work much more efficient, all in real time. And Bloomberg, Saritha Rai says, with these new AI tools, something that used to give the Philippines an advantage in this industry, its cultural closeness to America may not matter anymore. These AI tools will make it possible for BPOs to set up anywhere because accent will not be a problem. Saritha says that could open doors for foreign-owned companies to move their core centre operations to places in Africa, like Ghana, where it's cheaper to recruit agents and where the BPO industry is starting to expand. And that has big implications for the Philippine economy, which has been transformed by the sector. Some 10, 12 years ago, Manila was a different city. Now, most of these slick, sky scrapers, these luxurious homes, these big malls, all of this has been majorly on account of BPO industries boom. But now, one estimate says that up to 300,000 contact centre jobs could be lost in the Philippines to AI in the next five years. There is a recognition that, you know, that there is change coming, that there will be job losses, there will be less hiring, and you do not see the kind of frenzy that used to be the hallmark of the BPO industry even a decade ago. Now, Saritha says some of the executives in the industry she spoke to don't see the changes as all about job losses. They say AI will create different types of roles, jobs like training algorithms or curating data.

在过去一年中，菲律宾庞大的BPO（业务流程外包）行业的大多数主要公司都引入了某种形式的AI助手。通过让算法与人类操作员同时运行，使他们的工作更加高效，而且是实时的。根据彭博社的Saritha Rai的说法，随着这些新的AI工具的出现，以前给菲律宾在这个行业带来优势的因素，即其与美国的文化接近性，可能不再重要。这些AI工具使得BPO公司可以在任何地方建立，因为口音将不再是问题。Saritha表示，这可能为外国公司将其核心中心业务转移到像加纳这样的非洲地区铺平道路，因为在那里招聘代理更便宜，而且BPO行业正开始扩展。这对于菲律宾经济有重大影响，因为这一行业已经彻底改变了菲律宾的经济。大约10到12年前，马尼拉还是一座不同的城市。现在，那些光鲜的摩天大楼、奢华的住宅和大型购物中心主要都是由于BPO行业的繁荣。然而，现在有估计称，在未来五年内，菲律宾可能会因AI技术损失多达30万个呼叫中心工作岗位。人们已经意识到，变化正在到来，将会有失业现象和招聘减少，你不会再看到曾是BPO行业标志性的那种繁忙现象。Saritha表示，她采访的一些行业高管并不认为这些变化只意味着失业。他们说，AI将创造不同类型的岗位，比如训练算法或整理数据的工作。

As for the Philippine government who had been banking on the BPO industry to help propel its economy, we are Saritha, how they've responded to the growing presence of AI in the industry. There is a recognition that AI can really upend the industry. The government has been talking about re-skilling and training their workforce, but there is very little yet on the ground that I see in terms of real skilling initiatives or training initiatives that the government has initiated. Last month, the government launched an AI research center aimed at helping turn the Philippines into a regional front-runner in the AI space. But Saritha says the government has yet to put a figure on how much it's planning to spend. There is no real dollars that aside for retraining. I suppose every technological revolution has ultimately led to some job cuts. And I wonder if this is any different or is this just another one of those key technological turning points in history?

至于一直依赖BPO行业来推动经济发展的菲律宾政府，我与Saritha探讨了他们对该行业中人工智能日益增长的存在的反应。大家都认识到，人工智能可能会彻底改变这个行业。政府一直在谈论重新培训和培训他们的劳动力，但就我看到的，政府在实际技能培训计划方面的行动还很少。上个月，政府成立了一个人工智能研究中心，旨在帮助菲律宾成为该地区人工智能领域的领先者。然而，Saritha表示，政府尚未明确计划投入多少资金用于这些项目。目前，还没有真正的资金用于再培训。我想，每一次技术革命最终都会导致一些职位被削减。不知道这次是否有所不同，或者这只是历史上又一个关键的技术转折点？

In my coverage of the technology industry, I've covered a variety of disruptions. The latter part of the internet disruption, the mobile disruption, or the cloud disruption, all of these disruptions. But this is different. This is a technology that could in fact revenga what you're doing and what I'm doing. I keep looking over my shoulder to see what different technologies are doing in terms of writing and in terms of journalism. I know that there are AI anchors now, there are AI podcasters. What does that mean for your job and mine? There's always that little bit of niggling anxiety at the back of my head as I look at this technology and I've never felt that before. Maybe it'll be a cheerful Rebecca British accented AI avatar podcast host. It definitely feels like this story, perhaps more than some of the other stories that we've brought it on. We have a little bit more skin in the game here. I agree.

在我对科技行业的报道中，我经历过许多变革，比如互联网的后期变革、移动技术的变革以及云计算的变革等。但这次是不同的。这是一种有可能彻底改变你我工作的技术。我时常回过头看看不同技术在写作和新闻领域的应用。我知道现在有了AI主播和AI播客主持人。这对你我的工作意味着什么呢？当我观察这项技术时，心里总有一丝不安的疑虑，这是我从未有过的感觉。也许将来会有一个愉快的、带有英国口音的AI虚拟主持人。我确实觉得，这件事可能比我们报道的其他一些故事更让我们投入。我同意。

To that point, I wonder, does what happens with AI and the Philippines affect the rest of the world? I think the world over governments are challenged with how to deal with what is called a job displacement tools that this kind of AI is bringing in. There is an awareness that this is happening, but governments around the world are doing really very little to deal with it. So this is a bullet train that is really moving very fast and does the government have the speed to catch up? That is a question that I would leave open-ended.

关于这一点，我想知道，人工智能在菲律宾的发展是否会影响到世界其他地区？我认为，全世界的政府都面临着一个挑战：如何应对这种被称为“职位替代工具”的人工智能带来的影响。大家都意识到这种情况正在发生，但是全球的政府对此其实采取的措施很少。因此，这就像一列高速行驶的子弹列车，政府是否有足够的速度去追赶上它？这是一个值得思考的问题。

This is the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Rebecca Chung-Welkins. This episode was produced by Naomi Long, Young Young and Alex Sugura, who also mixed it. It was edited by Caitlyn Kenny and Emily Cabbin. It was fact-checked by Alex Sugura. Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponsault. Nicole Beams-Tobour is our executive producer and Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you like our show, please leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts or tell your friends. It makes a difference. Thank you and see you next time.

这是来自彭博新闻的《亚洲大事件》。我是Rebecca Chung-Welkins。本集节目由Naomi Long、Young Young和Alex Sugura制作，Alex Sugura还负责混音。编辑工作由Caitlyn Kenny和Emily Cabbin完成。事实核查由Alex Sugura负责。我们的高级编辑是Elizabeth Ponsault。Nicole Beams-Tobour是我们的执行制片人，Sage Bauman是彭博的播客负责人。如果你喜欢我们的节目，请在你收听播客的平台上给我们留下评论，或者告诉你的朋友。你的支持对我们很重要。谢谢你们，我们下次见。

Are you looking for a new podcast about stuff related to money? Well today is your lucky day. I'm Matt Levine. And I'm Katie Groffeld. And we are the hosts of Money Stuff, the podcast. Every Friday we dive into the top stories about Wall Street, finance and other stuff. We have fun, we get weird, and we want you to join us. You can listen to Money Stuff, the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你在寻找一个与金钱相关的新播客吗？今天是你的幸运日。我是马特·莱文。我是凯蒂·格罗费尔德。我们是“金钱话题”播客的主持人。每周五，我们都会深入讨论华尔街、金融和其他相关领域的热门话题。我们的节目既有趣又别具一格，欢迎你加入我们。你可以在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或任何你常用的播客平台上收听“金钱话题”。