Bernie Moreno on EV mandates, auto dealerships, digital car titles, and future of America

Bernie Marino on the CDG podcast. Bernie, welcome. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. We're really excited about this. I know you're very limited on time today, so we'll keep it very concise. But lots to discuss. I wanted to get started with, at a very high level, for those that don't know who Bernie Marino is, right? You were in the car business for many years, built an incredibly successful dealer group, 15 plus locations, one of the largest auto retailers in the Midwest.

Bernie Marino在CDG播客节目中。 Bernie，欢迎你。感谢你邀请我。非常感激。谢谢你的到来。我们对此非常兴奋。我知道你今天时间有限，所以我们会尽量简明扼要。但是有很多话题要讨论。我想首先介绍一下，对于那些不知道Bernie Marino是谁的人来说，对吧？你在汽车行业工作多年，创建了一个非常成功的经销商集团，有15多个地点，是中西部最大的汽车零售商之一。

Then you did something pretty unconventional. You sold and you pivoted to call it automotive tech, which is something that I have some experience with, but you did it in a pretty unique way. And I had lots of questions coming about this. We'll talk about what you've done there. And now you've since moved to the public sector. So extremely unconventional path throughout your career and really your life. The first thing that just came to mind is why. And it's a very big picture question, and you can answer it in many different ways. But why, what gave you that drive to want to go from the business private sector to the public sector? And what was it?

然后你做了一件非常非传统的事情。你卖掉了，并且转向了所谓的汽车科技，这是个我有点经验的领域，但你做的方式非常独特。我有很多问题都是关于这件事的。我们会讨论你在那里做了什么。之后，你又转向了公共部门。所以，你的职业生涯总体上是非常非传统的，甚至可以说是你的人生。首先让我想到的问题是为什么。这是一个非常宏大的问题，你可以用很多种方式来回答。但为什么？是什么驱使你从商业私营部门转向公共部门？究竟是什么原因？

Yeah, well, so for me, I love this country. It's that simple. As you know, as born in Columbia, South America, I moved to the US when I was a kid. This country's given me every opportunity in the world to succeed. I could never have done anywhere else on earth would I accomplish here? I'm sure it's the same for you. And you either sit back and watch the country go off a cliff or you do something about it. My dad used to say, you either read the book or you write the book. And if you're reading it and not writing it, then they'll complain about the way it ends. And so for me, the trigger is COVID.

是啊，对我来说，我爱这个国家，就这么简单。你知道的，我出生在南美的哥伦比亚，小时候搬到了美国。这个国家给了我所有成功的机会。我在这里取得的成就，是在地球上任何其他地方都无法实现的。我相信你也是一样。你要么坐在那里，看着国家走向悬崖，要么采取行动。我爸常说，你要么读书，要么写书。如果你只是读而不写，那就别抱怨结局。所以，对我来说，触发点就是新冠疫情。

I thought our government lost its ever-living mind during COVID. And I saw a lot of career politicians add no business sense in making decisions that affected businesses and families. And I felt that that what we need to do to fix this country is send more business people to Washington, DC, which is why I'm doing it. You know, lots of dealers look at you as this figure, right? Like you've come from within auto. You built yourself up from really from nothing. I mean, you grew all these dealerships. And now you're really, you've really gone involved in the public sector. You're running for Senate as well. What are your views on the economy, affordability? It's one of the biggest issues that dealers are dealing with nowadays.

我认为在新冠疫情期间，我们的政府失去了理智。而且我看到了很多职业政客在做出影响企业和家庭的决定时毫无商业头脑。我觉得我们要解决这个国家的问题，就需要送更多的商业人士去华盛顿特区，这也是我为什么要这么做的原因。很多经销商把你看作一个标志性的人物，对吧？就像你是从汽车行业内部发展起来的，从一无所有到现在。你创建了这么多经销店，现在你也真正投身到了公共领域，你还在竞选参议员。你对经济、物价可负担性有何看法？这是目前经销商们最头疼的问题之一。

Inflation, right? All this combined. What are your thoughts on where we're at today and where we're headed? Yeah, I mean, I think our elected leaders, principally like top line, their number one responsibility is to make this country stronger, safer and more prosperous. But not for the wealthy. The wealthier are going to take care of themselves. We have to grow our middle class. That's what's made America the thriving democracy or republic that has been forever is that we have this growing middle class. That's what makes it very different than places like right came from Columbia, South America. So the way you do that is you have to make certain that you're always taking care of working class Americans. And what we're seeing right now is an affordability crisis across the board.

通货膨胀，对吧？所有这些因素加在一起。你对我们目前的位置以及未来的发展有什么看法？ 是的，我的意思是，我认为我们选举出来的领导人，他们的首要责任是让这个国家更强大、更安全、更繁荣。但是，不是为了富人。富人会照顾好自己。我们必须发展壮大我们的中产阶级。正是中产阶级的发展让美国成为一个长期繁荣的民主或共和国家，这使得美国与我来自的南美哥伦比亚等地方非常不同。因此，实现这一目标的方法是你必须确保你始终在照顾工薪阶层的美国人。我们现在看到的是全方位的生活负担危机。

I mean, cars, there was a day not too long ago where you could lease a decent car for two or three hundred bucks a month. That's almost gone. I'm talking about, of course, with nobody down. Rent is unaffordable. Housing is unaffordable. Food is unaffordable. So we have to really take care of that. How do we fix that? Again, it sounds nice on paper, right? But as dealers, how does a country actually fix this affordability issue? Well, number one, we have to unleash America energy. Energy is the underlying cost of a lot of goods. So you drive the cost of that down by making more energy here in America. We have to have a tax code that encourages growth. We have to have a regulatory environment that doesn't stifle growth.

我的意思是，对于汽车，不久前你还可以每月用两三百美元租到一辆不错的车。但是现在几乎不行了。当然，我说的是零首付的情况。另外，房租负担不起，住房负担不起，食品也负担不起。因此，我们必须真正解决这个问题。如何解决呢？这些在纸上看起来很美好，但作为经销商，一个国家该如何实际解决这个负担问题呢？首先，我们必须解放美国的能源。能源是许多商品的基本成本。所以通过增加美国国内的能源生产，可以降低这些成本。我们还需要一个鼓励增长的税收制度，以及一个不压制增长的监管环境。

In the auto industry specifically, stop telling car companies what kind of cars to make. Let the car companies listen to their consumers and make the kinds of cars consumers want. What you're seeing right now is internal combustion engine cars are going through the roof through all these regulations or regulations on top of regulations that keep making the cars much more expensive. The government is dictating things like you have to have a test in 26 models to make sure they're not impaired before the car starts. That just adds unnecessary cost to the price of a car. I don't drink. Why am I being forced to take an impairment test before my car will start? That's crazy. The average price of car is 50 grand. We've got to drive that way down. We do that by having less regulation in an environment where car companies can do what they need to do.

在汽车行业，停止告诉汽车公司该生产什么样的汽车。让汽车公司倾听消费者的声音，生产消费者想要的汽车。目前你看到的是，由于各种法规，一个接着一个的规定，内燃机汽车的价格迅速上涨，这使得汽车变得越来越贵。政府在规定一些事情，比如要求在26款车型上进行测试，确保它们在启动前未受损。这无非是增加了汽车的额外成本。我不喝酒，为什么我要在汽车启动前进行酒精测试？这简直是疯了。一辆车的平均价格是五万美元，我们必须大幅降低这个价格。要实现这一点，我们需要减少监管，创造一个汽车公司可以按照自己的需要进行生产的环境。

You mentioned these mandates. What are your thoughts on EV subsidies and what do you see this EV retail penetration heading to in the next couple of years? Let me just say I'm not against electric cars. There's some pretty cool electric vehicles out there. It's not about what kind of car I like or I don't like. What it's about is letting the marketplace choose. Get rid of all the incentives. Get rid of all the mandates. Make certain that California can't dictate cafe requirements to the rest of the country because that's insane. We have one consistent cafe requirement around the country. We do that and just set the level playing field. Let the car companies compete with the products that consumers want. I think that's electric. Great. That's hybrid. Great. If it's something else that we haven't even thought of, great. If it's internal combustion engines, it just keeps getting better and better. That's fine too. But the government is not built for innovation and it certainly shouldn't be driving innovation.

你提到了这些强制措施。你对电动车补贴有什么看法？你认为未来几年电动车的零售渗透率会怎样？让我先说一句，我并不反对电动车。市面上有一些非常酷的电动车。这不是关于我喜欢什么类型的车或者不喜欢什么类型的车，而是应该让市场来选择。取消所有的激励措施。取消所有的强制规定。确保加州不能对全国其他地方设定油耗标准，因为那太荒唐了。全国应该有一个统一的油耗标准。我们这样做，就能建立一个公平的竞争环境。让汽车公司用消费者想要的产品来竞争。我认为，如果是电动车，那很好。如果是混合动力车，也很好。如果是我们现在还没想到的其他东西，那也很好。如果是内燃机车，并且它们变得越来越好，那也没问题。但是政府不是为创新而生的，政府当然也不应该主导创新。

I'd have to agree with you in that we've seen the pendulum swing consistently. EVs really took off around COVID and since then the market has cooled. It seems to me at least where it's really a product selection thing at most. But I'm in a similar camp as you. I actually just reviewed a model wide other day on YouTube. I put up a video about this. It seems to be that the mandates have really messed up the system a little bit. Like you said, most dealers, why I speak to are very pragmatic. They say, hey, it's an asset. I can retail it. Amazing. But let the market decide. That's the healthiest thing that we could possibly do for the economy and for consumers. Yeah. Imagine if the government weighed in on tech the way they're weighing in on cars 40 or 50 years ago. You know, the coolest thing on the market would be a portable HRAT player. The marketplace dictated it. I remember when the first iPhone came out and then of course 15 iPhones later and they have competitors and competition. Remember the the the the Blackberry used to be like the peak of technology, a flip phone before that and the marketplace drove us to where we are today. It will continue to drive us that way. Let's leave the auto industry alone. That's the key message. Again, it's not about being anti anything. It's about letting the marketplace decide. There's a marketplace that is dramatically smarter than any bunch of bureaucrats.

我同意你的看法，我们确实看到了市场的摆动。电动汽车在新冠疫情期间迅速崛起，但自那以后市场有所冷却。在我看来，这主要是产品选择的问题。不过，我的看法和你差不多。我最近在YouTube上评测了一款新车型，还上传了个视频。似乎是各种规定对系统产生了一些负面影响。像你说的，大多数我接触的经销商都是非常务实的，他们说，嘿，这是一个资产，我可以零售它。太好了，但让市场决定才是最健康的做法，对经济和消费者都是如此。想象一下，如果政府在40或50年前对技术领域干预，就像现在对汽车领域的干预一样，那么市场上最酷的产品可能还是便携式HRAT播放器。市场自有其决定力。我记得第一代iPhone推出的时候，后来又出了15代iPhone，还有许多竞争对手。当时黑莓是顶级科技产品，再往前是翻盖手机，都是市场推动我们到了今天的位置，未来市场也会继续推动我们前进。让汽车行业自主发展才是关键的信息。这不是反对什么，而是让市场来决定。市场比任何一群官僚都要聪明。

There seems to be so much division about just the EV topic among Democrats, Republicans. Elon Musk recently endorsed Donald Trump for president. You know, historically Donald Trump wasn't necessarily pro or anti-musque or but or they definitely wasn't pro. We can figure out the latter. What do you think about that endorsement and what do you where do you think we're headed to? Like will this division change? I actually just posted a stat on X about Edmunds put out a study showing that, you know, EV sentiment by political party, you know, 19% of Republicans said I like EVs, 55% of Democrats, 33% independent. So again, massive dispersion here. What do you think about Elon Musk endorsement? Do you think that in the world is going to change and potentially we're going to see more Republican EV buyers or is the sentiment going to change? What's your take?

关于电动汽车这个话题，民主党和共和党之间似乎存在很大的分歧。最近，埃隆·马斯克公开支持唐纳德·特朗普竞选总统。众所周知，特朗普过去对马斯克的态度并不特别支持或反对。你怎么看待马斯克的这个支持？你认为我们未来的走向是什么？这种分歧会有所改变吗？ 我刚刚在X（注：指社交媒体平台）上发布了一项由Edmunds进行的研究，数据显示对电动汽车的态度按政党划分：19％的共和党人表示喜欢电动汽车，55％的民主党人和33％的独立人士也表示喜欢。因此，态度的分化非常明显。你怎么看待马斯克的支持？你认为世界会因此改变，我们会看到更多的共和党人购买电动汽车吗？还是说态度会发生变化？你的看法是什么？

I think it's two different conversations. I think Elon endorsed President Trump because Elon cares a lot about this country. He cares a lot about legal immigration. He cares a lot about crime and education. He's a libertarian at heart. So of course, President Trump has a lot more in common with somebody like Elon Musk that he does with somebody like Kamala Harris who's objective. We are lunatic on the EV topic. I think you're talking about the rural urban divide more than anything else. I mean, if you live in downtown Boston, and EV can work for you, right? You live on Kam Ave and you work in Brighton. Yeah, you go back and forth three miles a day. Sure. That's a great option for you. If you live in rural Ohio, absolutely not. If you enjoy driving a pickup truck that has power and ability to pull, the things that you need for your work, not a car you like. And again, all this should be the marketplace.

我认为这是两场不同的对话。我觉得埃隆支持特朗普总统是因为他非常关心这个国家。他非常关心合法移民、犯罪和教育。他内心是个自由意志主义者。所以，当然特朗普总统在很多方面与埃隆·马斯克这样的人有更多共同点，而不是与卡马拉·哈里斯这样的人。我们在电动车话题上简直是疯了。我认为你谈论的是城乡差距问题。我是说，如果你住在波士顿市中心，电动车对你来说很适用。你住在卡姆大街，在布莱顿工作，每天来回三英里。这对你来说是个不错的选择。如果你住在俄亥俄州乡村，那绝对不行。如果你喜欢驾驶有动力和牵引能力的皮卡车，满足你工作的需求，而不是你喜欢的车。同样，这一切都应该由市场决定。

The marketplace is insanely efficient. You know, it's like colors of cars. Sometimes it's silver, then it's black, then it's white, then it's red. Can you imagine the government say, hey, red paint is bad. Everybody should drive a white car. It's just, it's such a silly analogy, but because it's so silly to think that the government should be telling us what kind of vehicles to drive. And by the way, the batteries explain to me how that's green. 80% of the underlying chemicals come from China. Most of our electricity in this country comes from fossil fuels. The cars are heavier, so you're wearing out tires more. Insurance is dramatically higher. It's why 50% or so of ED buyers decide, hey, you know, an ice car is better for me. Raging's idea is a real thing.

市场的效率极高。你知道的，就像车的颜色。有时候是银色，有时候是黑色，有时候是白色，有时候是红色。你能想象政府说，嘿，红色油漆不好，大家都应该开白色的车吗？这是一个非常荒谬的比喻，因为让政府告诉我们该开什么颜色的车真是太荒谬了。顺便说一下，电池怎么能算环保呢？80%的基础化学材料来自中国。我们国家的大部分电力来自化石燃料。电动汽车更重，所以轮胎磨损得更快。保险费用大幅增加。这就是为什么大约50%的电动汽车买家决定，嘿，内燃机车更适合我。续航焦虑是个真实存在的问题。

It's again, especially it plays like rural Ohio. So I think what you're seeing is that rural areas understand that those cars are not for them. It happened to be more Republican. Urban areas, those cars fit better for them. They tend to be more Democrat. I want to, I want to transition and I want to ask you a question. I didn't even plan this in advance. But if there's any deal or listening to this, right, what's like, you mentioned COVID was that spark for you to, you know, run for public office, right? But they give us a little like inside peak into your brain. Like the process is happening, right? I mean, it's just so unconventional for a deal or two, you know, sell their entire operation. It's an extremely entrepreneurial business that we know, you know, you got to cut your teeth to build a retail automotive business. Super difficult. What, like, what was that sort of transition process for you mentally, where you said, I'm going to do this and I'm going to sell my business. Or had, you know, I can imagine that was a process. What was that like for you?

这句话的中文翻译，尽量做到易读： 又是这样，尤其是在像俄亥俄州农村的地方。我认为你所看到的是，农村地区明白这些车不适合他们。这些地区倾向于支持共和党。城市地区，这些车更适合他们。他们更倾向于支持民主党。我想转换话题，问你一个问题。我甚至没有提前计划好这个问题。如果有任何经销商在听这个，是什么促使你在新冠疫情期间决定竞选公职？给我们一点关于你的思考过程的内部信息吧。这实在是很不寻常，因为经销商一般不会卖掉整个业务。我们知道建立一个零售汽车业务非常具有创业精神，过程也很艰难。你在哪个心理转折点决定去做这件事并卖掉你的业务？我想这肯定是一个过程，能分享一下它是怎么发生的吗？

Well, I mean, the people who came before us in this country did a lot more, sacrifice a lot more than what I sacrificed. In reality, you just have to decide what's important to you. You know, I could have 30 dealerships today, right? That certainly was a trajectory I was on. The question is what motivates you every day to get out of bed and go to work. And as you know, work 16 to 80, 20 hours a day. And the hours that you're not working, you're thinking about work, right? There's times I'm sure you've had it with your spouse or girlfriend with a site. You're not listening to me. It's because you have 19 things about work that you're thinking about. It's 24 seven when you're an entrepreneur. But yet what motivates me right now is being a part of fixing this country, reuniting this country, getting back to common sense. If there's one thing that comes out of my election, is that I'll motivate other business people to say, you know what? Screw it. I'm going to go out on a service country for a fixed period of time and then come home. This idea that these guys go to politics for their whole life, they quite literally die in office, is nuts. They have no life experience that would allow them to make the decisions that they're making. Anybody with normal common sense, it's even been in a dealership world for a day, would tell you, my god, let customers pick what kind of car they buy, not because they're forced to it or incentivize to do it.

好吧，我的意思是，在这个国家，我们的前辈们付出了比我更多的努力和牺牲。实际上，你只需要决定什么对你来说最重要。你知道吗？如果我继续当初的路线，我今天可能有30家汽车经销店。问题在于，是什么驱动你每天早上起床去工作。而且你知道，一天工作16到20个小时，即使你不工作的时候，你也在想着工作，对吧？有时候，我相信你也经历过，你的配偶或女朋友会说你不在听她说话，那是因为你脑子里有19件关于工作的事情。这种24/7的不间断思考是企业家的常态。但是现在，我的动力是修复这个国家，让这个国家重新团结起来，回归常识。如果我当选时能达成一件事，那就是激励其他企业家说，你知道吗？去他的吧！我要为这个国家服务一段固定时间，然后回家。那些人一辈子都在搞政治，最终在任上去世，实在是太疯狂了。他们没有任何生活经验来支持他们做出的这些决定。任何一个有正常常识的人，甚至只是在汽车经销行业呆过一天的人，都会告诉你，天哪，让顾客选择他们想买的车，而不是被迫选择或被激励去买某种车。

I want to talk a little bit about tech. You worked, as I mentioned, you sold your dealerships. You worked on, you actually co-founded a company called ChampTitles. You went from a traditional auto retail to like latest tech, blockchain, very innovative. Can you give us just a very, very brief summary of what this is, what problem you're looking to solve, what's the status of ChampTitles. It's a problem that every dealer here listening, every person that's ever bought a car will likely be able to resonate with.

我想聊聊科技。就像我提到的，你曾经工作过，还卖掉了你的经销店。你参与创立了一家公司叫做ChampTitles。你从传统的汽车零售转向了最新的科技领域，比如区块链，非常具有创新性。你能不能给我们一个非常简短的总结，介绍一下这个公司是做什么的，你们试图解决什么问题，目前ChampTitles的状况如何。这是一个每个在听的经销商，每个买过车的人可能都会感同身受的问题。

Can you just give us a little overview of that? Yeah, as you know, car titles are absolute abomination. You take a car and on trade with a payoff and you have to actually adjust the value of the vehicle, because you know you may not be able to retail that car for four, five, or six weeks, because you don't have the title. That's insane. It's this crazy piece of paper that's dictating so many problems in the ecosystem, whether you're a bank, insurance company, dealer, etc.

你能给我们简单介绍一下这个情况吗？ 好的，如你所知，车产权证绝对是个大麻烦。如果你用一辆有贷款的车做交易，你必须调整车辆的价值，因为在你拿到产权证之前，你可能无法在四、五或六周内转售这辆车。这简直疯了。就是这张该死的纸引发了整个生态系统中的诸多问题，不论你是银行、保险公司还是经销商。

So we said, why don't we just make that digital? So you can transfer it from party to party quicker. So what we did is we built software using blockchain that we then sold the state governments that allowed them to make the entire title and process digital. We've actually created something new that's just coming out. It's basically a synthetic, national title. So if you're in Kansas and you sell somebody at car that you took on trade from Arizona and that person lives in Georgia, you could do that entire transaction through West Virginia, digitally with one interface.

所以我们说，为什么不把这个过程数字化呢？这样你可以更快地在各个环节之间传输信息。于是我们开发了使用区块链的软件，并将其卖给了州政府，让他们可以将整个产权转让过程实现数字化。实际上，我们创作了一种新东西，才刚刚问世，它基本上是一种合成的全国产权证书。比方说，如果你在堪萨斯州，通过西弗吉尼亚州的一个数字界面，就可以完成这个交易。

It's really, really cool. You get the title and your dealership's name within 24 hours after sending the payoff check. So you're not waiting for FedEx or lost paperwork, etc. Really, really cool. I think we're champ titles is going to go is to the moon. I sold my shares in that company because I didn't want to have a conflict of interest. But let me tell you, that was a heartbreaking decision. My partner Shane Bigelow is doing an amazing job. And we're now in six states, fully activated West Virginia and Kentucky and New Jersey being the most West Virginia being kind of our laboratory for all of our advanced ideas. But just a really cool company, really cool idea to be able to make it happen. You know, digital records for titles, like ingenious.

这真的是非常非常酷。你在寄出还款支票的24小时内就会收到所有权文件和你经销商的名字，所以你不用再等FedEx或者担心文件丢失等问题。真的是非常非常酷。我觉得我们这个冠军所有权公司未来的发展将会一飞冲天。我卖掉了在这家公司的股份，因为我不想有利益冲突。但让我告诉你，这是一个令人心碎的决定。我的合伙人Shane Bigelow正在做着出色的工作。我们现在已经在六个州完全开展业务，西弗吉尼亚、肯塔基和新泽西是其中最重要的州，西弗吉尼亚是我们所有先进想法的实验室。总之，这是一个非常酷的公司，非常酷的想法，能够实现这一点。你知道的，所有权的数字记录，简直是天才之举。

It's like something so simple. Yeah, you wonder like, how has this not been done before? So that is my question to you. Like, how has this not been done before? What are the obstacles you're dealing with? Right. When are we going to see this rollout all over the country? I mean, just tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. I mean, like any great technology, right? We always look at each other and go, damn, why didn't I think of that? Right. Why didn't I come up with that idea? Because the hard part is taking an idea and landing it. Right. There's a whole laundry list of ideas that we have in our heads all the time. It's actually implementing that's very difficult. That's why for me, my partner Shane was critical because I was the idea guy. He was the implementation guy and he did an amazing job. So it's typically the best companies are the ones that solve the simplest problem in the most elegant way.

这好像是件非常简单的事情。是啊，你会想，为什么之前没人做过呢？所以这是我想问你的问题。为什么之前没有人做过这个？你们遇到了哪些障碍？对吧，什么时候我们能在全国范围内看到这个推行？就是说，能不能给我们稍微介绍一下这个情况。对，就像任何伟大的技术一样，对吧？我们总是互相看看，然后感叹：哎呀，为什么我没想到这个？对，为什么我没想到这个创意？因为最难的部分是将一个创意变为现实。我们脑子里总是有一大堆主意，真正困难的是实施。所以对我来说，我的合作伙伴Shane起到了关键作用，因为我是出主意的人，而他是实施的人，他做得非常出色。通常最好的公司都是那些用最优雅的方式解决最简单问题的公司。

And that's what we've done. I think we'll, I think champ within five years is now the nationwide standard. And I think much like boarding passes on a plane. Remember, it used to be we got the boarding pass mailed to you. I don't know if you're that old and then you got it where you could print it at home and then you got it on your phone. The idea that somebody would mail you a boarding pass via USPS is insane. And I think in five to 10 years, the idea that there was a piece of paper that proved that you own a car will be an insane idea. I'd agree with that. I think it's definitely, definitely the direction we need to go. And it's a real problem.

这就是我们所做的。我认为，在五年内，“champ”（可能指某种标准或流程）将成为全国性的标准。我想这很像飞机登机牌。你还记得吗，以前登机牌是邮寄给你的。如果你年纪够大，你还会记得，然后你可以在家打印出来，之后你可以直接在手机上获得登机牌。现在若有人通过美国邮政寄给你登机牌，这简直是不可思议的事情。我认为在五到十年内，有一张纸证明你拥有一辆车，这种想法也会变得荒谬。我同意这种看法。我认为这确实是我们需要前进的方向，并且这是一个现实的问题。

Extremely complicated system, very slow, lots of mistakes. So definitely, I'm really excited to see where this goes. And by the way, I heard about this years ago, I was, I think someone I told me at the time to connect with you possibly because you were in kind of auto tech and whatnot. So very cool to see how this is progressing. All right, we got a couple more minutes.

这个系统极其复杂，非常慢，还有很多错误。所以我真的很期待看到它的未来发展。顺便说一下，我几年前就听说过这个，当时好像有人建议我联系你，因为你当时似乎从事汽车科技等领域。所以看到它的进展非常酷。好了，我们还有几分钟时间。

So I want to do a little bit of rapid fire here. Chinese cars in the US, is it going to happen? Is it not happening? When is it going to happen? Thoughts? No, definitely that. We can't allow the Chinese to steal our auto industry. We've already given a third of our auto industry to Mexico. We're not going to do that with China. So playing devil's advocates, right? Devil's advocate. Sorry. You see, you know, wind fast, you know, starting to retail in the US, you know, other countries. Is this like a China thing specifically? Or is this like, you know, more foreign entities? How do you see this?

所以我想快速问几个问题。中国汽车进入美国市场，这会发生吗？不会发生吗？什么时候会发生？有什么看法吗？ 不会，绝对不会。我们不能允许中国人偷走我们的汽车产业。我们已经把三分之一的汽车产业转移到了墨西哥，我们不会再这样对待中国。 那么，扮演一下“唱反调”的角色，对吗？对不起，应该是“唱反调”。你看，像越南的VinFast已经开始在美国零售，还有其他国家的品牌。这是中国的问题吗？还是更广泛的外国企业进入的问题？你怎么看这个问题？

Well, it starts as a China thing because obviously they massively subsidize their industry. We'll destroy our industry because they have basically slave labor. We're not going to allow that to happen. And I think generally speaking, we want to make certain that we make things here in America. You got companies like Honda, companies like Toyota, that are doing a great job. They want to sell cars here in America. Let's make them in America. BMW Mercedes does the same thing. So we need Volkswagen. So we need more manufacturing that happened in the US to provide those good middle class jobs that I talked about earlier.

嗯，这件事起初与中国有关，因为显然他们对自己的工业进行了大量补贴。由于他们基本上是通过廉价劳动力的方式运营，我们会毁掉我们的工业。我们不会让这种事情发生。我认为，总的来说，我们希望确保能在美国本土生产商品。像本田、丰田这样的公司做得很好，他们想在美国销售汽车，那就应该在美国生产。宝马和梅赛德斯也做了同样的事。所以我们需要大众这样的公司。我们需要在美国进行更多制造业，以提供我之前提到的那些良好的中产阶级工作。

Speaking of manufacturing in the US, what do you see as the future for legacy auto? I mean, right now, there are, you know, many are really struggling. They've, you know, they've gone through ups and downs. But, you know, Ford was in the penalty box in the last, or say, in the last two and a half years. Now it's kind of Stellantis who's just pricing is all over. Product selection is struggling. They're really struggling with sales. Where are, you know, domestic automakers? What's the future for them? They need to get their act together. I mean, at the end of the day, look at Toyota. Toyota does an amazing job of honoring its auto dealers. They understand the partners. If I were the chairman of the board of General Motors, I would get out of retail completely. I would put distributors in place and completely focus on making, designing, and engineering the world's greatest, most desirable cars. Let somebody else take care of the distribution of retail. I think where the domestic went wrong when they started going down the wrong road is when they thought they could do retail better than car dealerships.

谈到美国的制造业，你怎么看传统汽车的未来？我的意思是，目前，很多传统汽车制造商都在艰难挣扎。他们经历过起伏，但是你知道，福特在过去两年半里一直表现不佳。现在类似的是Stellantis，他们的定价非常混乱，产品选择也在挣扎，销售情况很糟糕。那么，本土汽车制造商现在处于什么位置？他们的未来是什么？他们真的需要振作起来。归根结底，看看丰田。丰田在尊重其汽车经销商方面做得非常出色。他们了解合作伙伴的重要性。如果我是通用汽车的董事会主席，我会完全退出零售业务。我会设置分销商，专注于制造、设计和工程世界上最伟大、最受欢迎的汽车。让其他人来负责零售的分销。我认为国内汽车制造商走错路的时候，是他们以为自己可以比汽车经销商更好地做零售。

Big mistake. It's like, imagine a car dealer thinking that they know how to manufacture a car. Better than the car company. Stupid. So get out of retail. Honor your dealers. Support them. Made the cars that people want. That's where their focus should be. If they do that, I think the auto industry and the US can thrive. Tomorrow I put you back into car business. What franchise are you going after? What do you want to buy? Well, you know, my heart and souls with Mercedes Benz, because they're the ones that gave me the first opportunity to buy a franchise. As you know, car dealerships that typically inherited from generation to generation. I was able to buy my first dealership at 38 years old. Happened to be a Mercedes Benz dealer. So for that reason, I'm very attached to Mercedes. But man, I would love, and I think everybody would love to be a Toyota dealer. I mean, I joke there's Toyota dealers and people who want to be Toyota dealers, because you have a car company that honors you. They're on their side. They know that you add value to the system. You're not a detriment to it. So Toyota is absolutely doing a lot of things really well.

大错误。这就像是想象一个汽车经销商认为自己比汽车公司更懂得如何制造汽车。愚蠢。所以，要退出零售业，尊重你的经销商，支持他们。制造人们真正想要的汽车，这才是他们应该关注的重点。如果他们这样做，我认为汽车行业和美国都能繁荣发展。明天，如果让你重新进入汽车行业，你会选择哪个品牌？你想买哪个品牌的经销权？你知道，我的心和灵魂都在梅赛德斯-奔驰，因为他们给了我第一次购买经销权的机会。汽车经销权通常是世代相传的，而我38岁时能够买下我的第一家经销店，恰好是梅赛德斯-奔驰。因此，我对梅赛德斯有很深的情结。但是，我也很喜欢，而且我认为大家都想成为丰田经销商。我开玩笑说，世上只有两种人：丰田经销商和想成为丰田经销商的人，因为丰田是一家尊重你的汽车公司。他们站在你这边，知道你为系统增值，而不是拖累。所以，丰田在许多方面确实做得非常好。

Do you regret going into politics? No, not at all. You know, this is what you're called to do. Obviously, I missed the car business. I missed my team. I missed the clients. And that's the affirmation that's ongoing. It's a great, great business. I love cars. So I missed the business. I certainly missed the opportunity to do it with my son, who's now really into it. He's 26 years old. He's going to be one of the youngest dealers in the country. Pretty soon he's going through the NADA Academy now. So I would have loved to have worked with them. But this is what I'm motivated and called to do now. My final question for you is, if there's any dealer listening to this who's inspired by you, by your journey, by what you've done and by what you're doing, what's your message to them? Think about doing this. The water's warm. Jump on in. This country needs you. As dealers, we know how to deal with a lot of variables. My opponent has attacked me because I was a car dealer. So he hasn't said Bernie was a bad car dealer. He just said, we don't want car dealers in the Senate because car dealers are bad people. That's been his ad approach. I think it's ridiculous. He calls me a used car salesman. He's a career politician and never had a job. So he's defamed the entire auto industry. But those of us who were automobile dealers, those are complex business. It's very complex. You got to bring a lot of people together. You got to get to a result. You got to make things happen. And ultimately, you can't make a living unless you actually accomplish something. Think about if that same model applied to politicians, they didn't get paid unless they actually did something. They'd all be homeless and broke. Pay for performance, baby.

你后悔进入政界吗？完全没有。你知道的，这是你的使命。当然，我怀念汽车行业，怀念我的团队，怀念客户。这份感情一直存在。汽车行业是一个非常棒的行业，我热爱汽车。所以我确实怀念这个行业。我也肯定怀念与我的儿子一起工作的机会，他现在非常热衷于这个行业，他26岁了，即将成为全国最年轻的经销商之一。他现在正在参加NADA学院的培训。所以我本来很愿意和他一起工作的。但是现在，这就是我受到激励和使命感驱使去做的事情。 我最后一个问题是，如果有任何经销商在听了你的故事和所做的事情后受到启发，你有什么话想对他们说？请考虑加入这个行业。水很温暖，跳进来吧。这个国家需要你们。作为经销商，我们知道如何应对很多变化。我的对手攻击我，因为我是一个汽车经销商。所以他并没有说我是一个坏的汽车经销商，他只是说我们不需要汽车经销商进入参议院，因为汽车经销商是坏人。这一直是他的宣传策略。我认为这是荒谬的。他称我为二手车销售员，但他自己是一个职业政客，从未有过真正的工作。因此他诋毁了整个汽车行业。但是，对于那些曾经是汽车经销商的人来说，这是一个复杂的业务，非常复杂。你要将很多人团结在一起，取得成果，实现目标。最终，除非你真的完成了某件事，否则你是无法谋生的。想想如果政治家也是这种模式，除非他们真的做了些什么，否则不会得到报酬。他们都将无家可归且身无分文。从绩效中获取报酬，宝贝。

Absolutely. You know, I knew that it's so, it's so clear that you're, you were in a car business when I asked you the question about affordability and you're like, you could get a car for 300, 300 hours a month. No money down. And I'm like, only a car person would emphasize the no money down. No one else would have that attention to detail. Let's go sign it. I love it. Bernie, this was awesome. I just want to wish you good luck. Thanks for coming on.

当然可以。你知道吗？当我问你关于负担能力的问题时，我就知道你是在汽车行业的。你说："你可以每月花300美元买一辆车，不需要首付。" 我当时就想，只有汽车行业的人才会强调"不需要首付"，没有其他人会注意到这个细节。太棒了，我们去签合同吧。我喜欢这样。伯尼，这真是太棒了。我只是想祝你好运，谢谢你来参加。

I really, really quick and short, but packed with insights and really enjoyed it. Seriously, good luck with everything. And you know, we'd love to have you on in the future. Yeah, of course, if you could put my website out there, burningmarino.com. They can sign up. Please follow. They can contribute.

我非常非常简短而快速，但充满了见解，真的很享受。真的，祝你一切顺利。你知道的，我们未来很想再次邀请你。当然，如果你能推广一下我的网站 burningmarino.com，他们可以注册。请关注，还可以贡献。

We're getting out spent like crazy, by the way, my opponent has spent 42. Million dollars to zero, by the way, spent zero so far on TV, spent 42 million. He went from being up five points to being up three points because again, this disparagement of me as a car dealer has really motivated the car dealer community. So we'd love to get everybody's support. Absolutely. We'll throw up your links in the show notes as well. And again, thanks for coming on. It was really great. Thank you.

顺便说一下，我们的支出比对方少太多了。我对手已经花了4200万美元，而我们在电视上花了零元。他从领先5个百分点变成领先3个百分点，因为对我的诽谤其实激励了汽车经销商这个群体。所以我们非常希望能得到大家的支持。我们会把你的链接放在节目的注释中。再次感谢你的参与。真的很棒。谢谢。