在20VC播客的一次坦诚而广泛的对话中，Wix首席执行官Avishai Abrahami深入探讨了公开上市SaaS公司面临的挑战、Wix通过其Base44“Vibe Coding”产品所确定的战略方向，以及他在市场波动中的个人哲学。主持人Harry Stebbings指出Wix市值仅为28亿美元，而营收却高达21亿美元，质疑市场错失了什么。 Abrahami将当前的“SaaSpocalypse”（SaaS末日论）很大程度上归因于市场无法准确评估AI对SaaS业务的影响。他认为公众认知往往高估了AI即时的颠覆性力量，导致不合理的估值下跌。对于Wix而言，其主要客户是本地披萨店或理发店等小型企业，他们突然使用通用AI工具“Vibe Coding”整个业务栈的想法是牵强附会的。他承认一些客户可能会转向高级工具，但这正是Wix战略性地大力投资其自身面向开发者的平台Base44的原因，该平台能够提供此类功能。 关于Base44，Abrahami透露其年度经常性收入（ARR）已远超1.5亿美元，并正在快速增长。尽管Wix核心平台的利润率较高，因为它生成和托管网站的成本较低，但Base44的利润率较低。然而，Wix对Base44的投入源于一种信念，即未来在于简单、无代码解决方案与更灵活、定制化Vibe Coding的结合。他设想未来“有些人会选择前者，有些人会选择后者”，因此需要同时提供这两种产品。 Wix的一项关键战略决定是开发自己的专有AI模型，而不是仅仅依赖OpenAI等前沿模型。Abrahami解释说，这是因为基于Wix和Base44庞大的专有训练数据，这些模型在特定用例中能提供更好的质量。他指出，这种专业化方法还能带来显著的成本节约，与通用模型相比，根据复杂程度不同，可节省5%到30%的成本。他仍对市售AI代理能否有效处理一家在192个国家运营的公司复杂客户支持的细微差别持怀疑态度，这也是Wix持续构建自身解决方案的原因。 Stebbings就Abrahami对Wix股价表现出的超然态度进行了追问，特别是考虑到该公司回购股票的时机不佳。Abrahami承认回购的“糟糕时机”，但为该策略辩护，认为回购是向股东返还价值并平衡股权激励的一种有效工具。他强调，他的主要重心仍然是建设一家伟大的公司，服务客户和员工，而不是被日常市场波动所左右。他坦率地承认“我真的不在乎”每日股价的变动，这种心态是很少有上市公司首席执行官能够保持的。 关于人才留存，Abrahami承认在艰难市场中的挑战，但提出了务实的看法。他认为一定程度的人才流失是健康的，可以为组织注入活力，并让新人才涌现。他强调了持续培养和发展顶尖人才的重要性。Wix在全球拥有约3500名员工（其中Base44有400人），客户支持仍然是他们最大的部门。 Abrahami还分享了关于韧性和人生的个人见解。他建议听众接受“风暴总会发生”的现实，并专注于控制他们能控制的：自己的努力和行动。他分享说，金钱对他而言，主要提供的是“自由”——免于恐惧的自由和选择自己道路的自由，包括他作为首席执行官的角色。他强调要全身心投入自己选择做的事情的重要性。对于准父母，他的建议是，与孩子相处时应优先考虑“时间的质量”而非“数量”。 在快问快答环节中，Abrahami透露他改变了对AI取代人类工作速度的看法，现在认为这需要“更长的时间”。他对Figma的产品和市场理解力表达了深深的钦佩。他对Wix最大的持续担忧是执行力——确保团队保持雄心勃勃和高效。最后，他回顾了参与Wix、Monday和Base44等多个成功企业项目的独特经历，强调了它们帮助众多用户的集体潜力。

In a candid and wide-ranging conversation on the 20VC podcast, Wix CEO Avishai Abrahami delved into the challenges facing public SaaS companies, Wix's strategic direction with its Base44 "Vibe Coding" product, and his personal philosophy amidst market volatility. Host Harry Stebbings highlighted Wix's stark market cap of $2.8 billion against its $2.1 billion in revenue, questioning what the market was missing. Abrahami attributed much of the current "SaaSpocalypse" to the market's inability to accurately assess the impact of AI on SaaS businesses. He argued that public perception often overestimates AI's immediate disruptive power, leading to unjustified devaluation. For Wix, whose primary customers are small businesses like local pizza shops or hairdressers, the idea of them suddenly "vibe coding" their entire business stack using generic AI tools is far-fetched. He conceded that some customers might transition to advanced tools, but this is why Wix strategically invested heavily in Base44, their own developer-focused platform, which enables such capabilities. Regarding Base44, Abrahami revealed it's now well over $150 million in ARR and growing rapidly. While the core Wix platform boasts higher profit margins due to minimal cost of generating and hosting websites, Base44's margins are lower. However, Wix's commitment to Base44 stems from a belief that the future lies in a combination of simple, no-code solutions and more flexible, custom vibe coding. He envisions a future where "some people will be here, some people will be there," necessitating both offerings. A key strategic decision for Wix has been to develop its own proprietary AI models, rather than relying solely on frontier models like OpenAI's. Abrahami explained this choice by citing better quality for specific use cases within Wix and Base44, thanks to their vast proprietary training data. This specialized approach, he noted, also yields significant cost savings, ranging from 5% to 30% compared to generic models, depending on complexity. He remains skeptical that off-the-shelf AI agents can effectively handle the nuances of complex customer support for a company operating in 192 countries, which is why Wix continues to build its own solutions. Stebbings pressed Abrahami on his apparent detachment from Wix's stock price, especially given the company's poorly timed share buyback. Abrahami acknowledged the "terrible timing" of the buyback but defended the strategy, viewing buybacks as a valid tool to return value to shareholders and balance stock-based compensation. He emphasized that his primary focus remains on building a great company and serving customers and employees, rather than being swayed by daily market fluctuations. He candidly admitted, "I really don't care," about the daily stock movements, a mindset few public company CEOs can maintain. On talent retention, Abrahami acknowledged the challenge in a difficult market but offered a pragmatic view. He sees some talent churn as healthy, refreshing the organization and allowing new talent to emerge. He stressed the importance of continuously nurturing and developing top talent. With Wix employing approximately 3,500 people globally (including 400 in Base44), customer support remains their largest department. Abrahami also offered personal insights on resilience and life. He advised listeners to accept that "storms will happen" and focus on controlling what they can: their own efforts and actions. He shared that money, for him, primarily provides "freedom" – the freedom from fear and the freedom to choose his path, including his role as CEO. He emphasized the importance of being fully committed to what one chooses to do. For aspiring parents, his advice was to prioritize the "quality of time" spent with children over the "quantity." In a quick-fire round, Abrahami revealed he's changed his mind on the speed at which AI will replace human jobs, now believing it will take "much longer." He expressed deep admiration for Figma's product and market understanding. His biggest ongoing concern for Wix is execution – ensuring the team remains ambitious and efficient. He concluded by reflecting on the unique experience of being involved in multiple successful ventures like Wix, Monday, and Base44, highlighting their collective potential to help many people.