Ethan Smith, CEO of Graphite, joins Lenny Rachitsky to discuss the evolving landscape of SEO and the rise of Answer Engine Optimization (AEO). Smith clarifies that AEO and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO) are essentially the same, both focused on optimizing content to appear prominently in AI-driven "answer engines" like ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Perplexity.
Smith argues that while creating high-quality content remains crucial, proactive optimization is vital to influence these answer engines. He contrasts AEO with traditional SEO, explaining that while SEO focuses on ranking high in search results, AEO is about being cited frequently as a source within the AI's summarized answer. He emphasizes that AEO presents opportunities for early-stage companies to win quickly, as citations can be earned rapidly through mentions on Reddit, YouTube videos, or blogs. He claims conversion rates from AEO are significantly more valuable.
Smith then breaks down a practical strategy for AEO success, including:
* **Question Research:** Converting keywords into questions is the first step to identify search terms. Then it's about mining sources like sales calls, customer support interactions, and Reddit threads for the questions people are already asking.
* **Answer Tracking:** Set up a system to monitor how often your content appears in answer engine responses, across multiple platforms and question variations.
* **Content Creation:** Developing high-quality landing pages that thoroughly address these questions is vital. He stresses the importance of answering follow-up questions and covering a wide range of subtopics to increase the likelihood of being cited.
* **Citation Optimization (Off-site SEO):** Actively work to get mentioned across a variety of platforms, including YouTube, Vimeo, Reddit, Quora, affiliate sites, and industry blogs. Smith specifically mentions how to optimize for Reddit by being an authentic user of Reddit.
* **Experimentation:** Don't assume that online advice is correct. Establish a control group, intervene on the test group, and experiment to see what works and what doesn't.
Smith highlights the importance of a dedicated team to execute this strategy, combining traditional SEO expertise with community engagement skills for platforms like Reddit and YouTube.
Smith also delves into the differences between B2B and consumer-facing AEO strategies. B2B AEO requires careful attention to citation sources like TechRadar and a focus on detailed explanations of product features and integrations. It needs careful tracking of traffic. Commerce AEO focuses on product listings and rich snippets, and last touch traffic data.
Smith acknowledges that AI has a large traffic share, but does not want to be used as just an LM to be used with AI. He says competitors will use it for traffic if he does not. Smith also talks about the importance of preventing AI from being trained on data from the company website.
Addressing misconceptions surrounding AI and SEO, Smith debunks the narrative that Google search is dying, emphasizing that it remains a dominant force and is simply expanding alongside new channels like TikTok and Instagram. He cautions against overspending on expensive tools that offer commodity services like keyword tracking, and warns that many perceived "best practices" are untested assumptions.
Smith criticizes AI-generated content with no human loop, calling it what he created spam in 2007. He talks about how AI does not work without a human in the loop, citing how research shows how if Google allows just AI, it becomes a search engine for AI.
Smith discusses how AEO is a constantly evolving process. Google needs to decide how to edge-generated content.
Smith highlights Help Center optimization as a promising area for AEO. He advises moving Help Centers to subdirectories instead of subdomains, improving internal linking, and expanding coverage to address niche use cases and questions.
During the lightning round, Smith shares several of his favorite books, including "Emotional Intelligence," "Persuasion," and "How to Measure Anything." Smith also discusses the importance of finding inspiration in aggressive sports and slow craftsmanship to combine the two together. Smith emphasizes the key takeaway from Outliers: focus and practice. Smith shares his biggest AEO win: when he was able to rank his business Masterclass on the search "Butter Lettuce" ahead of bigger companies.